The Bronze Patriarchy

July 19, 2015 7:39 AM

Fighting to Bring Women in History to Central Park [New York Times]

For Myriam Miedzian, a former philosophy professor who lives on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, the need to correct the gender imbalance is obvious. She cites as evidence a bronze equestrian statue of King Jagiello near her home. “What is a 14th-century Polish king doing in Central Park?” she said.

posted by lunch (44 comments total)

“What is a 14th-century Polish king doing in Central Park?”

drinking faygo

oh

Jagiello - never mind
posted by pyramid termite at 8:09 AM on July 19, 2015 [18 favorites]

What is a 14th-century Polish king doing in Central Park? — especially without there also being a statue of his wife, Jadwiga, who was one of the few medieval queens regnant (and in fact had been crowned Rex Poloniae, not Regina Poloniae).
posted by metaquarry at 8:34 AM on July 19, 2015 [20 favorites]

The crazy gender disparity in statues commemorating humans isn't only a problem in Central Park. A month ago the first ever statue depicting a real, named woman was installed in Reykjavík, Iceland. Before that there had been a female mayor of Reykjavík, a female prime minister and even the first woman to be elected as head of state. Somehow, that was easier than to put up even one statue depicting a named woman. That's not the ony thing Reykjavík has in common with Central Park, because there's also a that same statue of Bertel Thorvaldsen as in Central Park. Something something more copies of that same statue of Bertel Thorvaldsen than statues of women.
posted by Kattullus at 8:38 AM on July 19, 2015 [7 favorites]

To answer the instant question, King Jagiello has a statue in Central Park because it was made for the Polish Pavilion in the 1939 World Fair, but it couldn't be taken back to Poland because of the Nazi invasion. So it was given to the city and placed in the park.

Most Central Park statuary was donated.
posted by slkinsey at 8:39 AM on July 19, 2015 [32 favorites]

The Poland statute is actually one of my favorites, but I am ALL in favor of getting some more female representation in the park. Maybe of some of the female NYC Marathon winners, since the race finishes there.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:41 AM on July 19, 2015 [2 favorites]

What is a 14th-century Polish king doing in Central Park? — especially without there also being a statue of his wife, Jadwiga, who was one of the few medieval queens regnant (and in fact had been crowned Rex Poloniae, not Regina Poloniae).

Yeah man, Jogaila was Lithuanian & a badass. We should end this derail, but still. Lithuanian power & to heck with quote-unquote-Poland.
posted by Going To Maine at 8:43 AM on July 19, 2015 [6 favorites]

The crazy gender disparity in statues commemorating humans isn't only a problem in Central Park.

It's also a big issue in Washington, DC.
posted by Going To Maine at 8:48 AM on July 19, 2015

“What is a 14th-century Polish king doing in Central Park?”

Practicing, practicing, practicing.
posted by Etrigan at 8:56 AM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]

Also, remember that "J" in Polish and Lithuanian is pronounced like "Y", "L with crossbar" doesn't exist in Lithuanian but sounds like "W" in Polish, and "W" in Polish is "V". So the (lady) King is Yadviga, and the archduke & eventual (man) King is Yogaiwo in Polish and Yogaila in Lithuanian. (Other folks can correct me if I err.)
posted by Going To Maine at 8:56 AM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]

If we're going to go with a suffragist, I vote for Rose Schneiderman. How about a statute of Nella Larsen? Stanton and Anthony just seem like kind of boring, uninspired choices.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:58 AM on July 19, 2015 [2 favorites]

That Mary Poppins statue looks lovely. I'd love to see New York dust off those plans and put it up. (In addition to many other statues of women, of course.)
posted by Banknote of the year at 8:59 AM on July 19, 2015

Something something more copies of that same statue of Bertel Thorvaldsen than statues of women.

To be fair, each of the Mr. Thorvaldsens appears to be resting an elbow on a girl's (or possibly very small woman's) head. Perhaps she has a name.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:02 AM on July 19, 2015

GenjiandProust: To be fair, each of the Mr. Thorvaldsens appears to be resting an elbow on a girl's (or possibly very small woman's) head. Perhaps she has a name.

She does, actually. It's Elpis, the spirit of hope. Goddesses and symbolic female figures have never had any problem in getting cast in bronze or carved into stone.
posted by Kattullus at 9:06 AM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]

Goddesses and symbolic female figures have never had any problem in getting cast in bronze or carved into stone.

Or having things rested on their heads. Women can't get a break even if they're mythological.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:16 AM on July 19, 2015 [5 favorites]

I'm offensive and I find this Polish.
posted by the hot hot side of randy at 9:16 AM on July 19, 2015 [3 favorites]

In one of my favorite YA urban fantasy novels, he's helping to save the universe.
posted by nonane at 9:19 AM on July 19, 2015 [2 favorites]

> It's Elpis, the spirit of hope.

That would be a nice girl's name if it weren't for a couple of immediately obvious problems!
posted by languagehat at 9:33 AM on July 19, 2015 [3 favorites]

In the Commonwealth, the most important statue is a town is often a woman, but only one woman: Queen Victoria. She must be one of the most memorialized women in history, maybe behind Saint Mary. She is not exactly inspirational, however.
posted by Thing at 9:35 AM on July 19, 2015

That would be a nice girl's name if it weren't for a couple of immediately obvious problems!

Spanish-speaking schoolmates, to begin with.
posted by sukeban at 9:41 AM on July 19, 2015 [2 favorites]

I'm just going to quietly note here that Rosa Luxemburg was Polish and that there totes needs to be more statues of her.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:50 AM on July 19, 2015 [4 favorites]

Mod note: Couple comments removed; responding to what you understand to be an absent third party's rhetorical question as if it wasn't rhetorical just so you can complain about it isn't improving the thread in any way.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:19 AM on July 19, 2015

That Mary Poppins statue looks lovely. I'd love to see New York dust off those plans and put it up. (In addition to many other statues of women, of course.)

Less fictional women, more real women.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:37 AM on July 19, 2015 [2 favorites]

The Statue of Liberty is the largest statue in the city.
posted by Ideefixe at 11:11 AM on July 19, 2015

yes, that definitely means sexism is over.
posted by poffin boffin at 11:14 AM on July 19, 2015 [16 favorites]

The Statue of Liberty is the largest statue in the city.

The Statue of Liberty isn't a woman. The statue of liberty is an idea of a woman, built & designed by dudes (Though, to its credit, it does have that Emma Lazarus poem waaaaay down on the pedestal.) Folks might disagree, but I think that the notion that the representation of a fictional ideal is equivalent to even one statue of a real human being is wrong in 99% of all cases. (Surely not your intent, but I remember one GGer ranting about how the women GG were harassing should learn from Miyazaki's Nausicäa about how a real woman should act.)
posted by Going To Maine at 11:30 AM on July 19, 2015 [10 favorites]

Abstract ideas are often represented as women. Nations for instance, are often embodied as women: Britannia or Kathleen Ni Houlihan or Marianne. Ideals like liberty and justice are often depicted as women. But that's really different from showing real historical women. The nation isn't actually a woman; no little girl looks at a statue of Justice and thinks "one day I'm going to be just like her," because she is not a person. She does not have a life story. She is a symbol. I believe that women deserve to be recognized as human beings, not just as corporeal embodiments of abstract ideas, but I realize that some people may disagree.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:45 AM on July 19, 2015 [15 favorites]

Has a woman ever been a 14th century Polish king? I didn't think so. Clearly woman do not measure up to these perfectly neutral criteria, which aren't sexist in the least.
posted by clvrmnky at 12:43 PM on July 19, 2015 [4 favorites]

I'll put up $100 to launch a Kickstarter for a statue of Margaret Thatcher in Central Park, to complement the statue of Ronald Reagan in London.
posted by MattD at 12:44 PM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]

The first New York public sculpture memorializing a historical woman was created in 1915. It was also the first public monument in New York by a woman, Anna Hyatt Huntington.
posted by elgilito at 1:06 PM on July 19, 2015

Ugh, Thatcher, no. Melt down Ronnie too while you're at it.

There are many many women of color who have made the world a better place. They should be first in line. Start with Harriet Tubman, go from there.
posted by emjaybee at 1:08 PM on July 19, 2015 [4 favorites]

Has a woman ever been a 14th century Polish king? I didn't think so. Clearly woman do not measure up to these perfectly neutral criteria, which aren't sexist in the least.

I understand that you're making with the jokes but since Jadwiga was crowned "Rex" she was, in fact, a 14th century Polish King. Maybe she should get a statue too!
posted by Going To Maine at 1:19 PM on July 19, 2015 [14 favorites]

I'll put up $100 to launch a Kickstarter for a statue of Margaret Thatcher in Central Park, to complement the statue of Ronald Reagan in London.

Just because we ruined your park that doesn't mean you have to ruin ours.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:20 PM on July 19, 2015 [10 favorites]

I'll put up $100 to launch a Kickstarter for a statue of Margaret Thatcher in Central Park

tbh i would kick some money towards this if she is grabbing a carton of milk from the hand of a statue child or seig heiling a nearby statue of pinochet
posted by poffin boffin at 2:42 PM on July 19, 2015 [17 favorites]

You would think there would be more statues of ladies in long skirts because they're easier to carve.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:35 PM on July 19, 2015

You would think there would be more statues of ladies in long skirts because they're easier to carve.

That's assuming that the labour costs are lower than the cost of the additional bronze/granite/marble to make the volume up.
posted by acb at 5:55 PM on July 19, 2015 [1 favorite]

Funny you should mention that, poffin boffin -
posted by glasseyes at 5:58 PM on July 19, 2015

Don't let the misandry nutjobs hear about the woman king thing, because we'll never hear the end of how women are ruining monarchy, too.
posted by clvrmnky at 6:02 PM on July 19, 2015

Funny you should mention that, poffin boffin -
...
women are ruining monarchy

Preemptive Godwin.
posted by busted_crayons at 6:22 PM on July 19, 2015

In the heat of battle, Harold Godwin suddenly looks around, puzzled.

"What was that? I could have sworn somebody just said my nOH GOD MY EYE"
posted by Iridic at 7:48 PM on July 19, 2015 [4 favorites]

That's assuming that the labour costs are lower than the cost of the additional bronze/granite/marble to make the volume up.

Bronze yes, but just think about that granite/marble process for a second.
posted by figurant at 8:23 PM on July 19, 2015 [3 favorites]

Abstract ideas are often represented as women. Nations for instance, are often embodied as women

It doesn't change your point, but I always assumed the faces used for these statues were the stonemason's wife/daughter/girlfriend/celebrity crush.
posted by um at 9:19 PM on July 19, 2015

"The Stonemason's Wish Fulfillment" is the name of my next novel.
posted by clvrmnky at 9:36 PM on July 19, 2015 [2 favorites]

It doesn't change your point, but I always assumed the faces used for these statues were the stonemason's wife/daughter/girlfriend/celebrity crush.

or "anonymously stolen", in less flattering terms

though I think Liberty is the French designer dude's mother
posted by NoraReed at 6:12 AM on July 20, 2015

I'll put up $100 to launch a Kickstarter for a statue of Margaret Thatcher in Central Park

Create a walkway around it and charge $25 a head for the right to urinate on it. The revenue generated by expats would easily fund a food bank.
posted by Ber at 9:19 AM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]