Here’s how we figured out that it's AT&T.
August 18, 2015 4:22 PM Subscribe
Investigative journalism lives. How some journalists proved empirically that AT&T has been in a decades-long spying relationship with the NSA, using the Snowden documents as a starting point.
The fact that this illegal activity continued after the FISA revision in 2008 that was supposed to stop this makes me feel even more like a sucker for having voted for the current President. Certainly, I'm less enamored with the idea of Hillary in power, doing the very same bullshit. Support Bernie Sanders and cross my fingers, I guess.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 4:46 PM on August 18, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by a lungful of dragon at 4:46 PM on August 18, 2015 [6 favorites]
Chuffy: I had the same question.
posted by persona au gratin at 4:48 PM on August 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by persona au gratin at 4:48 PM on August 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, most of what's been proven is that Americans don't care enough about these matters to do anything about it.
posted by Candleman at 4:57 PM on August 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Candleman at 4:57 PM on August 18, 2015 [7 favorites]
I immediately thought about the Room 641A stuff too. And disclosures related to the Naurus deep packet inspection software suite(s), and the "splitters" installed at key transit points to feed them dataflows.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:00 PM on August 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:00 PM on August 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
Room 641A was for Internet traffic for one, albeit large, exchange only. The current stories add telephone traffic and multisite forwarding to the mix.
posted by rhizome at 5:08 PM on August 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 5:08 PM on August 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is a great piece--interesting and well written. Thanks!
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:20 PM on August 18, 2015
posted by Joseph Gurl at 5:20 PM on August 18, 2015
Wait...wasn't this already known?
The value here is in proving that AT&T was willing, eager, dying even, to go far above and beyond the terms of anything they were legally obligated to do. Most of this was already known to a relatively high degree of certainty, but not proven explicitly to be AT&T.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:22 PM on August 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
The value here is in proving that AT&T was willing, eager, dying even, to go far above and beyond the terms of anything they were legally obligated to do. Most of this was already known to a relatively high degree of certainty, but not proven explicitly to be AT&T.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:22 PM on August 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
The fact that this illegal activity continued after the FISA revision in 2008 that was supposed to stop this makes me feel even more like a sucker for having voted for the current President. Certainly, I'm less enamored with the idea of Hillary in power, doing the very same bullshit. Support Bernie Sanders and cross my fingers, I guess.
The described activity is legal after 2008. I do not know the details of the Bush-ear program, so I cannot comment on it. However, obtaining information from telephone calls with at least one point originating outside the U.S. is legal.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:25 PM on August 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
The described activity is legal after 2008. I do not know the details of the Bush-ear program, so I cannot comment on it. However, obtaining information from telephone calls with at least one point originating outside the U.S. is legal.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:25 PM on August 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
O HAI
posted by Room 641-A at 5:35 PM on August 18, 2015 [27 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 5:35 PM on August 18, 2015 [27 favorites]
Specifically, the FISA Amendments Act allows the government to monitor selected communications of a U.S. citizen for a week as long as one party to the call is outside the U.S.
posted by Ironmouth at 5:41 PM on August 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 5:41 PM on August 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
And anything that wasn't legal before that was made retroactively legal by the same 2008 amendments. Nothing to see here, Citizen.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:47 PM on August 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:47 PM on August 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, most of what's been proven is that Americans don't care enough about these matters to do anything about it.
It's not that we don't care. It more that we've come to the conclusion that there's not a goddamned thing we can do about it. All we can do is vote, and that doesn't seem to affect shit like this one bit. SSDD. I think a lot of us have simply given up on, well, everything. We'll know for certain in late 2016. If we've elected President Trump, you'll know definitely the Americans have packed it in.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:07 PM on August 18, 2015 [8 favorites]
It's not that we don't care. It more that we've come to the conclusion that there's not a goddamned thing we can do about it. All we can do is vote, and that doesn't seem to affect shit like this one bit. SSDD. I think a lot of us have simply given up on, well, everything. We'll know for certain in late 2016. If we've elected President Trump, you'll know definitely the Americans have packed it in.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:07 PM on August 18, 2015 [8 favorites]
resurrexit: "This is a pretty kickin' logo."
I had that on a t-shirt. Also, I am surprised by this how?
posted by Samizdata at 7:13 PM on August 18, 2015
I had that on a t-shirt. Also, I am surprised by this how?
posted by Samizdata at 7:13 PM on August 18, 2015
It really feels like a waste of time to try to lobby or legislate against these kind of surveillance programs, since they are by nature secretive and thus aren't given any sort of oversight that's visible to the public. The trust is gone, and it'd probably just get the feds to hide their dragnets better.
There are legitimate solutions outside of legislature, such as cryptography, but it's unrealistic to expect users to understand it and use it properly, especially when existing but insecure systems are more polished and already have their friends on the network. But making strong cryptography available for non-technical end-users is more realistic than stopping secretive parts of the government from spying on people in secret.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:35 PM on August 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
There are legitimate solutions outside of legislature, such as cryptography, but it's unrealistic to expect users to understand it and use it properly, especially when existing but insecure systems are more polished and already have their friends on the network. But making strong cryptography available for non-technical end-users is more realistic than stopping secretive parts of the government from spying on people in secret.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:35 PM on August 18, 2015 [3 favorites]
Has there been any response from AT&T?
posted by gottabefunky at 7:59 PM on August 18, 2015
posted by gottabefunky at 7:59 PM on August 18, 2015
Here’s Why the Close Collaboration Between the NSA and AT&T Matters: New disclosures about the National Security Agency’s partnership with AT&T could reignite constitutional challenges to the spy agency’s efforts to wiretap the Internet.
posted by homunculus at 9:25 PM on August 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 9:25 PM on August 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
Mark Klein on Democracy Now: Meet the Whistleblower Who Exposed the Secret Room AT&T Used to Help the NSA Spy on the Internet
posted by homunculus at 9:28 PM on August 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 9:28 PM on August 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
But making strong cryptography available for non-technical end-users is more realistic than stopping secretive parts of the government from spying on people in secret.
posted by mccarty.tim at 10:35 PM on August 18 [+] [!]
Oh, like they'll let that happen: - On the Apple Back Door Rumors … Remember Lavabit
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:54 PM on August 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by mccarty.tim at 10:35 PM on August 18 [+] [!]
Oh, like they'll let that happen: - On the Apple Back Door Rumors … Remember Lavabit
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:54 PM on August 18, 2015 [4 favorites]
Oh, like they'll let that happen: - On the Apple Back Door Rumors … Remember Lavabit
Some pretty disappointing stuff linked in one of the excerpts.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:12 PM on August 18, 2015
Some pretty disappointing stuff linked in one of the excerpts.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:12 PM on August 18, 2015
T.D. Strange: The value here is in proving that AT&T was willing, eager, dying even, to go far above and beyond the terms of anything they were legally obligated to do.
That's not much of a mystery either. In exchange for their cooperation in the spying dragnet, the Feds look the other way while AT&T puts Ma Bell back together.
posted by dr_dank at 6:23 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
That's not much of a mystery either. In exchange for their cooperation in the spying dragnet, the Feds look the other way while AT&T puts Ma Bell back together.
posted by dr_dank at 6:23 AM on August 19, 2015 [3 favorites]
That's not much of a mystery either.
Just ask former Qwest CEO Joseph Naccio.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:55 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Just ask former Qwest CEO Joseph Naccio.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:55 AM on August 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Has there been any response from AT&T?
"Your call is important to us and will be handled in the order it was received. Please hold and our next available representative will be with you shortly. To ensure quality service, your call may be monitored or recorded ."
posted by entropicamericana at 7:53 AM on August 19, 2015 [13 favorites]
"Your call is important to us and will be handled in the order it was received. Please hold and our next available representative will be with you shortly. To ensure quality service, your call may be monitored or recorded ."
posted by entropicamericana at 7:53 AM on August 19, 2015 [13 favorites]
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posted by Chuffy at 4:37 PM on August 18, 2015 [10 favorites]