Una poca de gracia
August 20, 2015 6:50 AM Subscribe
Google Translate's real-time sign translation [Word Lens] vs. La Bamba. Plus a link to a video interview with creator Otavio Good about how it works.
I loved Word Lens when it first came out. I've been thrilled to see how much farther Google took things when they bought Word Lens. While the real-time translation still needs more language support, it is getting better all the time, and the image capture translation is useful most of the rest of the time. Further, the speech translation (which is targeted around holding back-and-forth conversations on one device) is helping my boys with their Chinese lessons (which they started so they can speak to my wife's family).
posted by mystyk at 7:09 AM on August 20, 2015
posted by mystyk at 7:09 AM on August 20, 2015
I was halfway expecting something like "to dance the sneaker you need some heavenly grace", got half of it.
* Bambas are how they call canvas sneakers in parts of Spain.
* "Gracia" in this case means doing something with flair, or with gracefulness, but the word has other translations. If you tell a joke "con gracia", it's funny because of the way you've told it. If something no tiene gracia, it's just unfunny. Just translating it to English as "grace" is somewhat disgraceful.
posted by sukeban at 7:25 AM on August 20, 2015
* Bambas are how they call canvas sneakers in parts of Spain.
* "Gracia" in this case means doing something with flair, or with gracefulness, but the word has other translations. If you tell a joke "con gracia", it's funny because of the way you've told it. If something no tiene gracia, it's just unfunny. Just translating it to English as "grace" is somewhat disgraceful.
posted by sukeban at 7:25 AM on August 20, 2015
If you tell a joke "con gracia", it's funny because of the way you've told it. If something no tiene gracia, it's just unfunny.
"Grace" is a perfectly cromulent analogue of charisma here.
In English, grace fits into both of those scenarios just fine.
posted by phunniemee at 7:39 AM on August 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Grace" is a perfectly cromulent analogue of charisma here.
In English, grace fits into both of those scenarios just fine.
posted by phunniemee at 7:39 AM on August 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, no, it's seriously not. It's like translating "con duende" as "with a goblin". "To dance the bamba you need a bit of style" would be closer.
posted by sukeban at 7:58 AM on August 20, 2015
posted by sukeban at 7:58 AM on August 20, 2015
Very exciting. Then I wrote some of my pidgin Spanish on a whiteboard and the results were... un impresionan YOU.
Presumably, it is meant for SIGNALS y DESKing public, which is more easy to read.
AND MMV.
posted by aureliobuendia at 8:00 AM on August 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Presumably, it is meant for SIGNALS y DESKing public, which is more easy to read.
AND MMV.
posted by aureliobuendia at 8:00 AM on August 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, no, it's seriously not.
Sorry, yeah, I wasn't trying to police your translation of gracia at all. I know just barely enough Spanish to feed myself at a tacqueria. Just saying that "grace" in English is (like many words) a word with a really flexible definition that can fit a variety of uses, so it's hardly a "disgracefully" incorrect translation of the word. Grace and style are synonyms.
posted by phunniemee at 8:21 AM on August 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sorry, yeah, I wasn't trying to police your translation of gracia at all. I know just barely enough Spanish to feed myself at a tacqueria. Just saying that "grace" in English is (like many words) a word with a really flexible definition that can fit a variety of uses, so it's hardly a "disgracefully" incorrect translation of the word. Grace and style are synonyms.
posted by phunniemee at 8:21 AM on August 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Swanning through the marketfair with grace isn't the same as swanning through the marketplace with flair/ style/ etc. One is more ethereal and ladylike and the other is more bitchin' awesome. And we need the bitchin' awesome part to convey the meaning of gracia (in this case).
It's not as if I even like them, but "gracia" has 14 definitions as listed by the RAE and a long list of various uses in set expressions. In this particular case, the relevant one would be "Habilidad y soltura en la ejecución de algo. Baila con mucha gracia" ("Skillfulness and ease in the execution of something. He/she dances skillfully").
posted by sukeban at 8:42 AM on August 20, 2015
It's not as if I even like them, but "gracia" has 14 definitions as listed by the RAE and a long list of various uses in set expressions. In this particular case, the relevant one would be "Habilidad y soltura en la ejecución de algo. Baila con mucha gracia" ("Skillfulness and ease in the execution of something. He/she dances skillfully").
posted by sukeban at 8:42 AM on August 20, 2015
It's not as if I even like them, but "gracia" has 14 definitions as listed by the RAE and a long list of various uses in set expressions. In this particular case, the relevant one would be "Habilidad y soltura en la ejecución de algo. Baila con mucha gracia" ("Skillfulness and ease in the execution of something. He/she dances skillfully").
grace
ɡrās/
noun
noun: grace; noun: grace period; plural noun: grace periods; noun: His Grace; noun: Her Grace; noun: Your Grace
1.
simple elegance or refinement of movement.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:52 AM on August 20, 2015
grace
ɡrās/
noun
noun: grace; noun: grace period; plural noun: grace periods; noun: His Grace; noun: Her Grace; noun: Your Grace
1.
simple elegance or refinement of movement.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:52 AM on August 20, 2015
And since habilidad y soltura don't mean elegance or refinement you're making my point. The meanings are different enough that a direct translation to the word that looks most similar isn't the best one. Sheesh.
posted by sukeban at 10:16 AM on August 20, 2015
posted by sukeban at 10:16 AM on August 20, 2015
No. It's the same. Sorry.
Here's another dictionary:
: a way of moving that is smooth and attractive and that is not stiff or awkward
: a controlled, polite, and pleasant way of behaving
[...]
3
a : a charming or attractive trait or characteristic
b : a pleasing appearance or effect : charm
c : ease and suppleness of movement or bearing
English, sir, do you speak it?
posted by Sys Rq at 10:27 AM on August 20, 2015
Here's another dictionary:
: a way of moving that is smooth and attractive and that is not stiff or awkward
: a controlled, polite, and pleasant way of behaving
[...]
3
a : a charming or attractive trait or characteristic
b : a pleasing appearance or effect : charm
c : ease and suppleness of movement or bearing
English, sir, do you speak it?
posted by Sys Rq at 10:27 AM on August 20, 2015
Grace definitely contains multitudes in English, but I do see sukeban's point about subtle connotations. Isn't that the whole idea of things being "lost in translation"? So while I don't think it's disgraceful translation, I can see how it might be a graceless one.
That being said, I don't expect a high level of finesse from a piece of software that is doing image segmentation followed by OCR followed by a simple dictionary lookup (it works off-line). It's not doing a lot to incorporate context from the surrounding words, because -- as aureliobuendia pointed out -- the main use case is for signage. (And in the demo reel, the most context it ever gets at once is una poca de gracia, which could go many ways.) I've been playing with it all morning, and when it's aimed at text it does surprisingly well. I might even call it graceful -- not in the sense of fluent or natural, but in the sense of agile & nimble.
And here's another use-case that would be incredible: as an aid for people with impaired vision. The software already detects text in realtime; it could just as easily speak it as translate it. Or both! The stabilization needs to be improved (right now the detection gets a little dicey when the image moves, as it would on a wearable camera) but imagine how much more accessible the world would be!
Meanwhile, I'm gonna go aim it at a cookbook and see if it renders "langue de boeuf" as "ox language" the way babelfish used to.
posted by Westringia F. at 10:40 AM on August 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
That being said, I don't expect a high level of finesse from a piece of software that is doing image segmentation followed by OCR followed by a simple dictionary lookup (it works off-line). It's not doing a lot to incorporate context from the surrounding words, because -- as aureliobuendia pointed out -- the main use case is for signage. (And in the demo reel, the most context it ever gets at once is una poca de gracia, which could go many ways.) I've been playing with it all morning, and when it's aimed at text it does surprisingly well. I might even call it graceful -- not in the sense of fluent or natural, but in the sense of agile & nimble.
And here's another use-case that would be incredible: as an aid for people with impaired vision. The software already detects text in realtime; it could just as easily speak it as translate it. Or both! The stabilization needs to be improved (right now the detection gets a little dicey when the image moves, as it would on a wearable camera) but imagine how much more accessible the world would be!
Meanwhile, I'm gonna go aim it at a cookbook and see if it renders "langue de boeuf" as "ox language" the way babelfish used to.
posted by Westringia F. at 10:40 AM on August 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
In Mexican Spanish "gracia" can refer to someone's ability to be humorous or do something humorously, but in the context of this song I assumed that "gracia" meant "elegance" or "skill" which does correspond with the English meaning of "grace". My 2 cents!
posted by cobain_angel at 11:24 AM on August 20, 2015
posted by cobain_angel at 11:24 AM on August 20, 2015
OTOH "desgraciado" in Spanish translates to "unfortunate" in English and sukeban appears to be hispanohablante so perhaps the translation is more unfortunate than disgraceful :)
Or perhaps translation is just an insurmountable problem. When a word has many meanings (and many more do than most people imagine without thinking about it) then picking the right meaning in the tight context of a sign containing just a word or three is pretty much guesswork. As observers of the whole video we may draw a lot of context that helps us to pick among the meanings. Google Translate can't get there yet and I imagine it might be a long wait. Meanwhile, it remains a very useful tool.
posted by merlynkline at 11:33 AM on August 20, 2015
Or perhaps translation is just an insurmountable problem. When a word has many meanings (and many more do than most people imagine without thinking about it) then picking the right meaning in the tight context of a sign containing just a word or three is pretty much guesswork. As observers of the whole video we may draw a lot of context that helps us to pick among the meanings. Google Translate can't get there yet and I imagine it might be a long wait. Meanwhile, it remains a very useful tool.
posted by merlynkline at 11:33 AM on August 20, 2015
OTOH "desgraciado" in Spanish translates to "unfortunate" in English and sukeban appears to be hispanohablante so perhaps the translation is more unfortunate than disgraceful :)
It's hard to pun in a second language :D
posted by sukeban at 11:46 AM on August 20, 2015
It's hard to pun in a second language :D
posted by sukeban at 11:46 AM on August 20, 2015
Three summers ago we travelled through Spain and had dinner in a tiny town at the kind of tiny place where they just pulled a few chairs into the road in front of the restaurant and it's an instant patio. Usually, between our basic Spanish and pure guessing, we could surmise what most things on the menu were; but on this particular local menu everything was really regional and different and we couldn't figure it out, so I pulled out the Word Lens on my phone to decipher a few of the options. When a woman came to take my order she did a double-take at my phone translating the menu in real time and started calling over the other staff until the whole kitchen was watching me translate the menu and they were looking at me like I was a creepy spaceman or something.
posted by chococat at 11:49 AM on August 20, 2015
posted by chococat at 11:49 AM on August 20, 2015
> English, sir, do you speak it?
Don't be a jerk. I speak Spanish pretty well from having lived in Argentina, and I agree with sukeban about the different connotations of gracia and grace.
posted by languagehat at 11:50 AM on August 20, 2015
Don't be a jerk. I speak Spanish pretty well from having lived in Argentina, and I agree with sukeban about the different connotations of gracia and grace.
posted by languagehat at 11:50 AM on August 20, 2015
It's hard to pun in a second language :D
I liked your pun and was genuinely impressed. I would not attempt such a thing in Spanish! Unfortunately some others here perhaps didn't recognise it for what it was. Oh well.
posted by merlynkline at 12:59 PM on August 20, 2015
I liked your pun and was genuinely impressed. I would not attempt such a thing in Spanish! Unfortunately some others here perhaps didn't recognise it for what it was. Oh well.
posted by merlynkline at 12:59 PM on August 20, 2015
To dance La Bamba? Style, skill, grace, precision...
posted by Mister Cheese at 1:12 PM on August 20, 2015
posted by Mister Cheese at 1:12 PM on August 20, 2015
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posted by phunniemee at 6:56 AM on August 20, 2015 [1 favorite]