Goodell delenda est (but he probably won't)
September 5, 2015 9:28 AM Subscribe
The arrogance of Roger Goodell — Dan Wetzel on NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell's humiliating legal defeat resulting from the Deflategate scandal.
Goodell was going down in history as the victor, refusing to play favorites even with his favorite owner. All those that were screaming about the flaws in the Wells report would have been dismissed with Pat the Patriot logoed tin foil hats.More Ballghazi coverage:
Goodell's NFL, however, has the tact of a falling safe, a strange cowboy culture where it must push for every last drop of blood, no matter how imprudent it is to continue the battle.
This is how the whole thing started, after all.
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Tom Ley, Deadspin — This Is Roger Goodell's Defining Defeat, And The One He Deserves
Goodell flexed on Tom Brady simply because Brady wouldn’t cooperate with this investigatory cosplay, and that’s the funniest thing about all of this. Goodell and his minions got all the power they wanted, and all it’s resulted in is a player who almost definitely did what he was accused of sticking his middle finger in Goodell’s face and getting off scot-free. In the real world, it turns out, due process isn’t an impediment to justice, but the basis of it.
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Sally Jenkinks, Washington Post — DeflateGate exposed Roger Goodell as unfit to serve his office
The man does not belong in his post. That’s clear now. Goodell has proved to be an entitled legacy hire lacking in intelligence or real-world experience. Berman’s impeccably neutral language in his decision serves only to highlight Goodell’s shortcomings as a leader who can manage complex situations. The NFL is composed of 32 large-egoed billionaires who employ nearly 1,800 large-egoed millionaires, all of them envious, querulous and occasionally paranoid competitors. Goodell’s one and only job is to arbitrate quarrels with reason and dispassion so as to instill public confidence in the league. He has totally failed.
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Chris Thompson, Deadspin — Shut Up About Tom Brady's Legacy (with perhaps the best infographic ever)
But this is a fool’s errand. When all this Ballghazi shit is over—just a few hours from now, thank God—the people who will care the most, aside from those actively employed by either the Patriots or the NFL, will be Patriots fans who are glad to have Brady back for the start of the season and fantasy football owners. Sure, opposing fans will boo and taunt and yell increasingly unfunny lines about Brady’s little balls, but what visiting player doesn’t already deal with this shit? It’s not like restaurants will take a principled stand and refuse to seat Tom Brady for having general knowledge of some footballs being a little under-inflated. Pinpointing some real-world penalty for Brady’s tarnished legacy, or even the existence of such a phenomenon, is impossible, because the whole thing exists entirely in the sad, confused minds of people who wear their favorite players’ jerseys to the bar on Sundays, and those who make their living by riling the people in those jerseys.
I tend to think that the NFL is a toxic place that defends all sorts of illegal, dangerous behavior, and Goodell is completely incompetent, but it seems pretty obvious to me that Brady should have been suspended for cheating, so...
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:31 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:31 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
but it seems pretty obvious to me that Brady should have been suspended for cheating, so...
...so... let's ignore the fact that the NFL completely ignored due process, made the rules up as it went along, and ignored the conclusions of its own report that showed that nobody really knew what the hell was going on with the footballs during that game or any other?
Wait, that doesn't sound right t all.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:39 AM on September 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
...so... let's ignore the fact that the NFL completely ignored due process, made the rules up as it went along, and ignored the conclusions of its own report that showed that nobody really knew what the hell was going on with the footballs during that game or any other?
Wait, that doesn't sound right t all.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:39 AM on September 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
If Brady were guilty why did Goodell and his legal counsel have to violate every basic rule of labor dispute fairness to not prove it?
posted by one_bean at 9:39 AM on September 5, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by one_bean at 9:39 AM on September 5, 2015 [12 favorites]
Something else the NFL should probably be worried about, more negative press regarding Will Smith's new film Concussion [YouTube]
The NFL's concussion crisis is going to hit the big screen with the film Concussion, due out Christmas Day. It stars Will Smith as Bennet Omalu, the real Pittsburgh forensic pathologist who first discovered a neurodegenerative disease called chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) in the brains of football players. CTE is the result of repeated brain trauma over time and causes depression, dementia, and other behavioral changes. [VOX]posted by Fizz at 9:43 AM on September 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Reddit AMA with Sports Illustrated legal analyst who is teaching a course on Deflategate.
posted by chrchr at 9:45 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by chrchr at 9:45 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
So, really, we've just changed out attention from one set of balls to another....
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:52 AM on September 5, 2015
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:52 AM on September 5, 2015
NFL is making more money than ever. Goodell is a prime example of bad leadership not changing because the bottom line is so fat. Every post-Rice decision has been about trying to look strong for public relations.
By contrast, the NBA's leadership under Stern and now Silver looks visionary compared with the NFL.
posted by thebestusernameever at 10:00 AM on September 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
By contrast, the NBA's leadership under Stern and now Silver looks visionary compared with the NFL.
posted by thebestusernameever at 10:00 AM on September 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
Tom Brady pulled a Scooter Libby, destroying evidence of prohibited actions in order to stymie investigation. For that alone he should be facing consequences.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:15 AM on September 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:15 AM on September 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
I still think this was all a complete bullshit "scandal" with the NFL/Owners, The Patriots and Brady himself in cahoots to prevent some seven months of concussion/family abuse discussion over the NFL. Funny how this managed to be solved in the week right before the season started, when people predicted it could be quite a few into the season before everything was on the table.
posted by lmfsilva at 10:17 AM on September 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by lmfsilva at 10:17 AM on September 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
but it seems pretty obvious to me that Brady should have been suspended for cheating, so...
I use this example a lot, but... Ernesto Miranda was guilty as hell of the heinous crimes to which he confessed without knowing his rights. And after his confession was excluded due to the Supreme Court ruling in Miranda v. Arizona that cops have to inform people of their rights, Miranda was convicted again of those crimes.
But the process is still important, and when the powerful ignore or abuse it, they deserve to be slapped down.
Goodell delenda est.
posted by Etrigan at 10:18 AM on September 5, 2015 [10 favorites]
I use this example a lot, but... Ernesto Miranda was guilty as hell of the heinous crimes to which he confessed without knowing his rights. And after his confession was excluded due to the Supreme Court ruling in Miranda v. Arizona that cops have to inform people of their rights, Miranda was convicted again of those crimes.
But the process is still important, and when the powerful ignore or abuse it, they deserve to be slapped down.
Goodell delenda est.
posted by Etrigan at 10:18 AM on September 5, 2015 [10 favorites]
Funny how this managed to be solved in the week right before the season started, when people predicted it could be quite a few into the season before everything was on the table.
Pretty sure the judge isn't in on the concussion distraction conspiracy. Quicker resolutions happen sometimes (and that's a highly qualified "sometimes") when faster action can mean the difference between meaningful outcomes. Since Brady's suspension was for the first four games of the year, the verdict coming now is very, very different from the verdict coming in 3-6 months.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:20 AM on September 5, 2015
Pretty sure the judge isn't in on the concussion distraction conspiracy. Quicker resolutions happen sometimes (and that's a highly qualified "sometimes") when faster action can mean the difference between meaningful outcomes. Since Brady's suspension was for the first four games of the year, the verdict coming now is very, very different from the verdict coming in 3-6 months.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:20 AM on September 5, 2015
Is anyone selling "Goodell Sucks" shirts in Boston yet?
posted by TedW at 10:23 AM on September 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by TedW at 10:23 AM on September 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Funny how this managed to be solved in the week right before the season started...
Brady and the NFLPA sued so quickly and got it before the judge precisely because the season is about to start. In this case, waiting a few more weeks would literally have awarded the decision to the NFL. The timing isn't at all suspicious, and the league would be crazy to manufacture this very public and very thorough smackdown of its Commissioner to "prevent discussion" of a thing, which is impossible to do in the Internet era anyway.
Goodell delenda est.
posted by Etrigan at 10:23 AM on September 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
Brady and the NFLPA sued so quickly and got it before the judge precisely because the season is about to start. In this case, waiting a few more weeks would literally have awarded the decision to the NFL. The timing isn't at all suspicious, and the league would be crazy to manufacture this very public and very thorough smackdown of its Commissioner to "prevent discussion" of a thing, which is impossible to do in the Internet era anyway.
Goodell delenda est.
posted by Etrigan at 10:23 AM on September 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
(Let's a take a second here to note that the NFL lost a case in which it was outraged over Brady's supposed lack of cooperation and unwillingness to hand over evidence, in part because it was uncooperative and unwilling to hand over evidence. Seriously.) - Wetzel article
Pairs well with the falling safe metaphor.
posted by carsonb at 10:23 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Pairs well with the falling safe metaphor.
posted by carsonb at 10:23 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
NFLPA Attorney Jeffrey Kessler: The NFL “doesn’t want to comply with the CBA”
posted by graymouser at 10:24 AM on September 5, 2015
posted by graymouser at 10:24 AM on September 5, 2015
Is anyone selling "Goodell Sucks" shirts in Boston yet?
Close!
posted by Elementary Penguin at 10:27 AM on September 5, 2015
Close!
posted by Elementary Penguin at 10:27 AM on September 5, 2015
, and all it’s resulted in is a player who almost definitely did what he was accused of sticking his middle finger in Goodell’s face and getting off scot-free.
Wow, I had to read that sentence an embarrassing number of times before I realized how it was supposed to be parsed.
posted by Dumsnill at 10:30 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Wow, I had to read that sentence an embarrassing number of times before I realized how it was supposed to be parsed.
posted by Dumsnill at 10:30 AM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Latin nitpick: Surely it would be Goodell delendus est?
posted by lesbiassparrow at 10:31 AM on September 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by lesbiassparrow at 10:31 AM on September 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Dave Zirin: Why, at Least Today, We Should Cheer Tom Brady
posted by graymouser at 10:32 AM on September 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by graymouser at 10:32 AM on September 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
Latin nitpick: Surely it would be Goodell delendus est?
We're referencing, not literally calling for his destruction.
posted by Etrigan at 10:44 AM on September 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
We're referencing, not literally calling for his destruction.
posted by Etrigan at 10:44 AM on September 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
I live in Boston, though I am a transplant, not really a fan of the NFL, and am annoyed to shit by Pats fans when they are acting all Pats fan-like.
The NFL front office is so comically inept and awful that I am quite happy to see Brady and the Pats stick it to them legally. I admire Bill Belichick's commitment to being one of the more interesting villains in a Shakespeare play.
posted by dismas at 10:49 AM on September 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
The NFL front office is so comically inept and awful that I am quite happy to see Brady and the Pats stick it to them legally. I admire Bill Belichick's commitment to being one of the more interesting villains in a Shakespeare play.
posted by dismas at 10:49 AM on September 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
CTE is the result of repeated brain trauma over time and causes depression, dementia, and other behavioral changes.
So what's the evidence that Goodall has repeatedly hit his head?
posted by happyroach at 10:50 AM on September 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
So what's the evidence that Goodall has repeatedly hit his head?
posted by happyroach at 10:50 AM on September 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
> If Brady were guilty why did Goodell and his legal counsel have to violate every basic rule of labor dispute fairness to not prove it?
The only description of the O.J. Simpson case I ever heard that made sense to me was "The LAPD tried to frame a guilty man". I haven't followed Deflategate, so I don't know if it applies here, but it's always an overlooked possibility.
posted by benito.strauss at 10:58 AM on September 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
The only description of the O.J. Simpson case I ever heard that made sense to me was "The LAPD tried to frame a guilty man". I haven't followed Deflategate, so I don't know if it applies here, but it's always an overlooked possibility.
posted by benito.strauss at 10:58 AM on September 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
> Is anyone selling "Goodell Sucks" shirts in Boston yet?
No, it's Free Brady t-shirts and bumper stickers and they're fucking eveywhere.
posted by benito.strauss at 11:01 AM on September 5, 2015
No, it's Free Brady t-shirts and bumper stickers and they're fucking eveywhere.
posted by benito.strauss at 11:01 AM on September 5, 2015
So does Condi Rice get the NFL commissioner job now?
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:02 AM on September 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:02 AM on September 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
which is impossible to do in the Internet era anyway
And what' the percentage of NFL fans that visit, say, Deadspin for the bullshit-calling articles, as opposed to those that watch ESPN and go online to argue is Flacco is elite and if Brady is a cheater? One of the biggest stories this offseason would have been Chris Borland, and his stories have been buried under a tidal wave of deflategate bullshit.
They can't prevent it from being discussed, but sure as hell can make sure people can discuss something else. Like, say, one of the stars of the league being caught tampering with equipment and then coming up with an punishment nowhere near the books.
Was the quicker than expected a harsher resolution part of the script? Probably not, but at this point, the box score will take precedence over almost everything.
posted by lmfsilva at 11:14 AM on September 5, 2015
And what' the percentage of NFL fans that visit, say, Deadspin for the bullshit-calling articles, as opposed to those that watch ESPN and go online to argue is Flacco is elite and if Brady is a cheater? One of the biggest stories this offseason would have been Chris Borland, and his stories have been buried under a tidal wave of deflategate bullshit.
They can't prevent it from being discussed, but sure as hell can make sure people can discuss something else. Like, say, one of the stars of the league being caught tampering with equipment and then coming up with an punishment nowhere near the books.
Was the quicker than expected a harsher resolution part of the script? Probably not, but at this point, the box score will take precedence over almost everything.
posted by lmfsilva at 11:14 AM on September 5, 2015
> Is anyone selling "Goodell Sucks" shirts in Boston yet?
Better
posted by TWinbrook8 at 11:22 AM on September 5, 2015
Better
posted by TWinbrook8 at 11:22 AM on September 5, 2015
The only description of the O.J. Simpson case I ever heard that made sense to me was "The LAPD tried to frame a guilty man". I haven't followed Deflategate, so I don't know if it applies here, but it's always an overlooked possibility.
I live in Boston and am therefore unable to avoid following this no matter how much I might wish to. That description fits this situation, and most of the less-disingenuous sports fans I know around here have said so in plain English on Facebook.
It's possible Brady only asked the ball handlers to keep it at the absolute lowest legal pressure, and possible he asked for lower than that, but we'll never know the truth because he destroyed all evidence in a way that absolutely fails to pass the smell test.
one_bean's characterization of the NFL's reaction to that destruction violating every basic rule of labor dispute fairness is likewise accurate.
If I never have to hear or think about this again (unlikely because Boston) that would be pretty great.
posted by Ryvar at 11:51 AM on September 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I live in Boston and am therefore unable to avoid following this no matter how much I might wish to. That description fits this situation, and most of the less-disingenuous sports fans I know around here have said so in plain English on Facebook.
It's possible Brady only asked the ball handlers to keep it at the absolute lowest legal pressure, and possible he asked for lower than that, but we'll never know the truth because he destroyed all evidence in a way that absolutely fails to pass the smell test.
one_bean's characterization of the NFL's reaction to that destruction violating every basic rule of labor dispute fairness is likewise accurate.
If I never have to hear or think about this again (unlikely because Boston) that would be pretty great.
posted by Ryvar at 11:51 AM on September 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Here's why Goodell is worse than Brady -- and I say this as a Seahawks fan, someone who definitely has cause to loathe the Patriots as an organization and Brady as an individual right now.
Cheating is part of the game.
Not just football, but any professional or even highly competitive sport. Right now, 11 year olds in travel basketball leagues are being taught how to tell if the ref is looking at them before they grab a fistful of another player's jersey. I've recently gotten into Bundesliga soccer, and I watch those guys perform "challenges" in the form of Achilles tendon sweeps that, from the ref's angle, look like an attempt to get a foot on the ball with such skill that they MUST do drills on them. As long as the games are refereed by humans and not by hyperfast omiscient artificial intelligences, the rules will never be hard, fast, inviolable guidelines. They will always have some flex in them. Whether or not it's publicly acknowledged, part of the players' and coaches' jobs is to push and flex those rules as far as they will go.
Goodell's job isn't to stop them from doing that. I mean, yeah, part of his job is to provide a counterpressure against that tendency so that it doesn't go too far and become ridiculous, but a bigger part of his job as it pertains to rules violations is to ensure that the rules have the same amount of flex in them for everyone, to ensure that everyone is treated roughly equally and roughly fairly when it comes to violations investigations. That's what keeps the players and coaches comfortable and confident enough to be able to deliver a consistent and exciting game. When he says "Well, you look guilty, and let's face it you almost certainly are guilty, so let's just dispense with this whole business and punish you," he destabilizes a major part of the way the game is played. And that is the exact opposite of his job.
I loathe Tom Brady and his perfect fucking face and his sad flabby balls, but Goodell is worse.
posted by KathrynT at 12:03 PM on September 5, 2015 [11 favorites]
Cheating is part of the game.
Not just football, but any professional or even highly competitive sport. Right now, 11 year olds in travel basketball leagues are being taught how to tell if the ref is looking at them before they grab a fistful of another player's jersey. I've recently gotten into Bundesliga soccer, and I watch those guys perform "challenges" in the form of Achilles tendon sweeps that, from the ref's angle, look like an attempt to get a foot on the ball with such skill that they MUST do drills on them. As long as the games are refereed by humans and not by hyperfast omiscient artificial intelligences, the rules will never be hard, fast, inviolable guidelines. They will always have some flex in them. Whether or not it's publicly acknowledged, part of the players' and coaches' jobs is to push and flex those rules as far as they will go.
Goodell's job isn't to stop them from doing that. I mean, yeah, part of his job is to provide a counterpressure against that tendency so that it doesn't go too far and become ridiculous, but a bigger part of his job as it pertains to rules violations is to ensure that the rules have the same amount of flex in them for everyone, to ensure that everyone is treated roughly equally and roughly fairly when it comes to violations investigations. That's what keeps the players and coaches comfortable and confident enough to be able to deliver a consistent and exciting game. When he says "Well, you look guilty, and let's face it you almost certainly are guilty, so let's just dispense with this whole business and punish you," he destabilizes a major part of the way the game is played. And that is the exact opposite of his job.
I loathe Tom Brady and his perfect fucking face and his sad flabby balls, but Goodell is worse.
posted by KathrynT at 12:03 PM on September 5, 2015 [11 favorites]
It's worth remembering that Brady was suspended for twice as many games as Ray Rice originally was and Rice did something much more heinous. Ultimately, courts overturned Rice's suspension. And Adrian Peterson's suspension. And The Saints' suspension for setting bounties for damaging hits on opposing players. All three of those things were much worse than ball deflation and the NFL under Goodell couldn't make those penalties stick because, in large part, they didn't follow their own rules.
But, yeah, knock out your wife = two games (unless the video goes public and embarrasses us), deflate footballs = 4 games (because fuck you Brady).
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:05 PM on September 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
But, yeah, knock out your wife = two games (unless the video goes public and embarrasses us), deflate footballs = 4 games (because fuck you Brady).
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:05 PM on September 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
Latin nitpick: Surely it would be Goodell delendus est?
Goodell eunt domus
posted by rhizome at 12:39 PM on September 5, 2015 [10 favorites]
Goodell eunt domus
posted by rhizome at 12:39 PM on September 5, 2015 [10 favorites]
Finally the PSI numbers are known.
That is pretty much irrelevant as to whether there were a rules violation. If a ball handler modified the ball pressure in any manner at Brady's direction after they were tested by the referees, even if the modifications were not below allowed specifications, then that is a violation. For example, changing the balls from the high end of the allowed range to the low end of the allowed range is still illegal manipulation.
For example, the SEC has prosecuted stock traders for insider trading even when the trades resulted in losses. It is the act of the manipulation, not the results of the manipulation that are illegal.
The real question is whether manipulation occurred. While measured pressure can be one element of proof it is not the only or necessary proof.
posted by JackFlash at 12:43 PM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
That is pretty much irrelevant as to whether there were a rules violation. If a ball handler modified the ball pressure in any manner at Brady's direction after they were tested by the referees, even if the modifications were not below allowed specifications, then that is a violation. For example, changing the balls from the high end of the allowed range to the low end of the allowed range is still illegal manipulation.
For example, the SEC has prosecuted stock traders for insider trading even when the trades resulted in losses. It is the act of the manipulation, not the results of the manipulation that are illegal.
The real question is whether manipulation occurred. While measured pressure can be one element of proof it is not the only or necessary proof.
posted by JackFlash at 12:43 PM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Goodell only makes 30+ million a year! What do you people expect? If you want perfection he needs to be paid at least $40 million a year.
posted by srboisvert at 1:07 PM on September 5, 2015
posted by srboisvert at 1:07 PM on September 5, 2015
When was a kid, 30 million was still a hell of a lot to get paid for being top-to-bottom fuck-awful at your job.
posted by Navelgazer at 1:12 PM on September 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 1:12 PM on September 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
The real question is whether manipulation occurred. While measured pressure can be one element of proof it is not the only or necessary proof.
Right, and one of the equipment guys called himself the deflator. Pats cheated, it's not the first time they have done it and got caught. They deserved a harsh punishment, and the punishment against the team was not overturned. Brady destroyed evidence and got away with it, but really would you hand over your phone to your boss? Screw that.
posted by Drinky Die at 1:18 PM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Right, and one of the equipment guys called himself the deflator. Pats cheated, it's not the first time they have done it and got caught. They deserved a harsh punishment, and the punishment against the team was not overturned. Brady destroyed evidence and got away with it, but really would you hand over your phone to your boss? Screw that.
posted by Drinky Die at 1:18 PM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
That is pretty much irrelevant as to whether there were a rules violation.
It's not meant as an argument about whether or not there's a rules violation, it's about the fact that the NFL leaked to Chris Mortenson that 11 of the 12 footballs were more than 2 pounds off from the required psi, when that wasn't the truth.
posted by drezdn at 1:52 PM on September 5, 2015
It's not meant as an argument about whether or not there's a rules violation, it's about the fact that the NFL leaked to Chris Mortenson that 11 of the 12 footballs were more than 2 pounds off from the required psi, when that wasn't the truth.
posted by drezdn at 1:52 PM on September 5, 2015
That is pretty much irrelevant as to whether there were a rules violation.
What's the normal punishment for a rules violation? (Hint: It's not a four game suspension.)
posted by drezdn at 1:56 PM on September 5, 2015
What's the normal punishment for a rules violation? (Hint: It's not a four game suspension.)
posted by drezdn at 1:56 PM on September 5, 2015
And when they say "four game suspension", they mean 1/4 of the season.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:41 PM on September 5, 2015
posted by TWinbrook8 at 2:41 PM on September 5, 2015
As long as deflategate is a story, Goodell is doing his job, which is to protect the league. There are so many other legitimate issues with the NFL, but all anyone is talking about is deflated footballs and how bad Goodell is.
In reality, he's doing a fantastic job. Keep scaring up more non-story controversies and milk them for all they're worth!
posted by paulcole at 2:48 PM on September 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
In reality, he's doing a fantastic job. Keep scaring up more non-story controversies and milk them for all they're worth!
posted by paulcole at 2:48 PM on September 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Tom Brady pulled a Scooter Libby, destroying evidence of prohibited actions in order to stymie investigation. For that alone he should be facing consequences.
No, that's the narrative that you've been fed by the NFL (through an outrageous leak a few hours before the announcement of Goodell's review) and have eaten hook, line, and sinker. Ted Wells is on record stating that he had all of the text messages to all of the NFL personnel involved, and also the entire phone metadata records from that period showing that there were unaccounted text messages. He was also on record in stating that there would be no consequences for not further complying with his request. Goodell is the one that, during an appeal, used the fact that Brady's team could not produce the physical phone to change what he was being penalized for after the fact.
Right, and one of the equipment guys called himself the deflator. Pats cheated, it's not the first time they have done it and got caught.
Did you know that the "deflator" text came months before the events of Jets game where the balls were somehow overinflated to 16psi and then Brady then asked for the refs to be supplied with the part of the rulebook to highlight that the inflation range was 12.5 to 13.5 psi? Does it make any sense for conspirators in a ball deflation scheme to send a heads-up to the referees telling them what to look for?
Not to mention that according to the Wells report, in the worst case the footballs would have been deflated by at most 0.5 PSI? What possible motivation would there be to put together a deflation scheme for a basically undetectable change?
The judge specifically did not rule on the merits of the Wells report because that was outside of the scope of review. But you can tell from the transcripts and the text of the ruling itself that Judge Berman thought the whole process was bogus.
posted by Harvey Byrd at 3:38 PM on September 5, 2015 [15 favorites]
No, that's the narrative that you've been fed by the NFL (through an outrageous leak a few hours before the announcement of Goodell's review) and have eaten hook, line, and sinker. Ted Wells is on record stating that he had all of the text messages to all of the NFL personnel involved, and also the entire phone metadata records from that period showing that there were unaccounted text messages. He was also on record in stating that there would be no consequences for not further complying with his request. Goodell is the one that, during an appeal, used the fact that Brady's team could not produce the physical phone to change what he was being penalized for after the fact.
Right, and one of the equipment guys called himself the deflator. Pats cheated, it's not the first time they have done it and got caught.
Did you know that the "deflator" text came months before the events of Jets game where the balls were somehow overinflated to 16psi and then Brady then asked for the refs to be supplied with the part of the rulebook to highlight that the inflation range was 12.5 to 13.5 psi? Does it make any sense for conspirators in a ball deflation scheme to send a heads-up to the referees telling them what to look for?
Not to mention that according to the Wells report, in the worst case the footballs would have been deflated by at most 0.5 PSI? What possible motivation would there be to put together a deflation scheme for a basically undetectable change?
The judge specifically did not rule on the merits of the Wells report because that was outside of the scope of review. But you can tell from the transcripts and the text of the ruling itself that Judge Berman thought the whole process was bogus.
posted by Harvey Byrd at 3:38 PM on September 5, 2015 [15 favorites]
The deflator just brought the balls into the bathroom with him after the refs inspected them because he likes looking at footballs on the john I guess. Dude, they cheated. The team didn't even fight the penalty and fired the equipment people involved. It's not seriously in dispute, the evidence for Brady just wasn't there.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:01 PM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Drinky Die at 5:01 PM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh, and keep the story straight, the story is that the deflator nickname had nothing to do with balls, he was just trying to lose weight.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:04 PM on September 5, 2015
posted by Drinky Die at 5:04 PM on September 5, 2015
Latin nitpick: Surely it would be Goodell delendus est?
Goodell eunt domus
posted by rhizome at 3:39 PM on September 5
[5 favorites +] [!]
Goodell cranius rectus.
posted by 4ster at 7:00 PM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Goodell eunt domus
posted by rhizome at 3:39 PM on September 5
[5 favorites +] [!]
Goodell cranius rectus.
posted by 4ster at 7:00 PM on September 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
The team didn't even fight the penalty and fired the equipment people involved
Teams have no internal process to fight with. And taking the matter to court is in itself a violation of the league's constitution.
Jastremski and McNally were suspended at the league's request.
You have been half informed. It's as if you have seen only the prosecution's argument's and then you've only seen the defense's arguments filtered back through the prosecution again.
posted by Trochanter at 5:38 AM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Teams have no internal process to fight with. And taking the matter to court is in itself a violation of the league's constitution.
Jastremski and McNally were suspended at the league's request.
You have been half informed. It's as if you have seen only the prosecution's argument's and then you've only seen the defense's arguments filtered back through the prosecution again.
posted by Trochanter at 5:38 AM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
I also want to question the equivalency with the OJ thing.
One major huge difference: There is no clear evidence of a crime. Forgive me Nicole, but there is no body.
The league had to hire Exponent, a laboratory with a record of producing results for money, to even claim that the balls could not have arrived at their half-time pressures naturally.
And Exponent's methods and results, sure enough, have been pretty seriously questioned.
posted by Trochanter at 5:55 AM on September 6, 2015
One major huge difference: There is no clear evidence of a crime. Forgive me Nicole, but there is no body.
The league had to hire Exponent, a laboratory with a record of producing results for money, to even claim that the balls could not have arrived at their half-time pressures naturally.
And Exponent's methods and results, sure enough, have been pretty seriously questioned.
posted by Trochanter at 5:55 AM on September 6, 2015
Can anyone on the "Brady didn't do anything, the Patriots didn't do anything, no one did anything, nothing was done" side provide any links to their assertions? I'd love to learn more, but there's a lot of noise out there.
Goodell delenda est.
posted by Etrigan at 6:06 AM on September 6, 2015
Goodell delenda est.
posted by Etrigan at 6:06 AM on September 6, 2015
Well, the questioning of Exponent's work comes up in the transcript of the appeal. It's during the direct and cross examination of Edward Snyder.
Here is a transcript. Each page has a header saying "Brady Direct" or "Snyder Cross", so it's fairly easy to find by scrolling.
I will not claim that the procedural stuff is not over my head. But Snyder is a pretty credentialed statistician.
And you can look at "Neutrality" at the Exponent Wikipedia page.
posted by Trochanter at 6:19 AM on September 6, 2015
Here is a transcript. Each page has a header saying "Brady Direct" or "Snyder Cross", so it's fairly easy to find by scrolling.
I will not claim that the procedural stuff is not over my head. But Snyder is a pretty credentialed statistician.
And you can look at "Neutrality" at the Exponent Wikipedia page.
posted by Trochanter at 6:19 AM on September 6, 2015
The deflator just brought the balls into the bathroom with him after the refs inspected them because he likes looking at footballs on the john I guess. Dude, they cheated. The team didn't even fight the penalty and fired the equipment people involved. It's not seriously in dispute, the evidence for Brady just wasn't there.
I wasn't going to respond to this since you've clearly made up your mind and no amount of argument and evidence will change it, but the part about the team firing the equipment people gets my goat. The NFL told the Patriots that the equipment people were prohibited from working NFL games, and the Patriots complied with that request. But of course that part is ignored, and instead it's strongly implied that the team fired them as punishment for some kind of wrongdoing that they are now covering up.
I'm not even going to address the rest of that paragraph.
To step back a bit, the most interesting aspect of this saga (one which I had time to put together a full post for) is how propaganda has evolved in the internet age, and how effective it can still be. Deflategate at its heart is the same as the Birther movement, 9/11 Truther movement, Climate Change Denialist movement, and Putin's Little Green Men movement, and these all share a heritage going back to Goebbels and beyond.
From these, there are a lot of great (and frightening) lessons to learn about how to operate a successful propaganda / misinformation campaign:
Always take the initiative. People make their conclusions based on the first facts that they hear on a subject, and few are willing or able to re-evaluate those conclusions as contradicting information comes in.
As a corollary, "Breaking News" is the only type of news that will get noticed by people not following your story closely. It is also a scarce resource - it can by definition only ever happen once for any particular story. Ensuring that your message is the "Breaking News" ensures that your opponent's response will only ever be heard by a small fraction of the people, no mater how strong that response is.
"Manufacturing Consent" is an important ongoing part of this strategy. Build an ecosystem of media outlets that have a dependence on you for their own success. These outlets can and will be weaponized to push out your messages and to ignore your opponents'. Don't ignore modern media: back in the day, those that learned how to use newspapers, radio, film and TV first got a huge leg up; nowadays, media personalities that have Twitter followers count as their own media outlets.
It is better to have a lie that tells a compelling story than to rely solely on the truth. But even better than that is to have some fragment of truth that can be twisted in some way to fit the narrative. Look at the "The team fired the equipment people involved" above example, which I think was an excellent play by the NFL. Just Thursday, I saw this particular argument thrown at a a vehement Brady advocate on a national TV show covering the court case, who didn't know how to respond; he was fortunate that he was rescued by another participant who did know the full context of that argument.
There are plenty of other strategies and tactics to learn from this whole process, but I will jump straight to one last one that is perhaps the most important: Successful minorities make the best targets. I'm not going to go deep into historical parallels because they're quite obvious, but the interesting thing about this case is how well it works at multiple levels.
For non-Patriots NFL fans, Brady is the ultimate successful minority; 31 other teams have had to watch him and the Patriots win for the last 15 years, often when they've thought their own team was legitimately better. There's no better salve to the ego than to think that your own failures are a result of a long-running conspiracy rather than your own inadequacy or even worse, dumb luck. It doesn't hurt that he's rich and is married to a beautiful, rich, foreign model wife.
For people that aren't fans of the NFL, it works too. Tom Brady is hugely rich and successful because he had the fortune to win the genetic lottery to become a professional athlete. He's the 1%, all for playing a game rather than for doing something useful to society. Here on Metafilter, how many comments have we seen that say something like "I hate the NFL and maybe Brady is a victim, but there are other far worthier victims that I need to reserve my outrage for"?
These are all reasons why I hope people pay attention to this controversy. Not so much because of the outcome (though I am personally far too invested in that to be neutral) but because this is such a great example of how a propaganda war works in the modern world. There are lots of smart people watching and taking notes.
posted by Harvey Byrd at 6:44 AM on September 6, 2015 [11 favorites]
I wasn't going to respond to this since you've clearly made up your mind and no amount of argument and evidence will change it, but the part about the team firing the equipment people gets my goat. The NFL told the Patriots that the equipment people were prohibited from working NFL games, and the Patriots complied with that request. But of course that part is ignored, and instead it's strongly implied that the team fired them as punishment for some kind of wrongdoing that they are now covering up.
I'm not even going to address the rest of that paragraph.
To step back a bit, the most interesting aspect of this saga (one which I had time to put together a full post for) is how propaganda has evolved in the internet age, and how effective it can still be. Deflategate at its heart is the same as the Birther movement, 9/11 Truther movement, Climate Change Denialist movement, and Putin's Little Green Men movement, and these all share a heritage going back to Goebbels and beyond.
From these, there are a lot of great (and frightening) lessons to learn about how to operate a successful propaganda / misinformation campaign:
Always take the initiative. People make their conclusions based on the first facts that they hear on a subject, and few are willing or able to re-evaluate those conclusions as contradicting information comes in.
As a corollary, "Breaking News" is the only type of news that will get noticed by people not following your story closely. It is also a scarce resource - it can by definition only ever happen once for any particular story. Ensuring that your message is the "Breaking News" ensures that your opponent's response will only ever be heard by a small fraction of the people, no mater how strong that response is.
"Manufacturing Consent" is an important ongoing part of this strategy. Build an ecosystem of media outlets that have a dependence on you for their own success. These outlets can and will be weaponized to push out your messages and to ignore your opponents'. Don't ignore modern media: back in the day, those that learned how to use newspapers, radio, film and TV first got a huge leg up; nowadays, media personalities that have Twitter followers count as their own media outlets.
It is better to have a lie that tells a compelling story than to rely solely on the truth. But even better than that is to have some fragment of truth that can be twisted in some way to fit the narrative. Look at the "The team fired the equipment people involved" above example, which I think was an excellent play by the NFL. Just Thursday, I saw this particular argument thrown at a a vehement Brady advocate on a national TV show covering the court case, who didn't know how to respond; he was fortunate that he was rescued by another participant who did know the full context of that argument.
There are plenty of other strategies and tactics to learn from this whole process, but I will jump straight to one last one that is perhaps the most important: Successful minorities make the best targets. I'm not going to go deep into historical parallels because they're quite obvious, but the interesting thing about this case is how well it works at multiple levels.
For non-Patriots NFL fans, Brady is the ultimate successful minority; 31 other teams have had to watch him and the Patriots win for the last 15 years, often when they've thought their own team was legitimately better. There's no better salve to the ego than to think that your own failures are a result of a long-running conspiracy rather than your own inadequacy or even worse, dumb luck. It doesn't hurt that he's rich and is married to a beautiful, rich, foreign model wife.
For people that aren't fans of the NFL, it works too. Tom Brady is hugely rich and successful because he had the fortune to win the genetic lottery to become a professional athlete. He's the 1%, all for playing a game rather than for doing something useful to society. Here on Metafilter, how many comments have we seen that say something like "I hate the NFL and maybe Brady is a victim, but there are other far worthier victims that I need to reserve my outrage for"?
These are all reasons why I hope people pay attention to this controversy. Not so much because of the outcome (though I am personally far too invested in that to be neutral) but because this is such a great example of how a propaganda war works in the modern world. There are lots of smart people watching and taking notes.
posted by Harvey Byrd at 6:44 AM on September 6, 2015 [11 favorites]
To step back a bit, the most interesting aspect of this saga (one which I had time to put together a full post for) is how propaganda has evolved in the internet age, and how effective it can still be. Deflategate at its heart is the same as the Birther movement, 9/11 Truther movement, Climate Change Denialist movement, and Putin's Little Green Men movement, and these all share a heritage going back to Goebbels and beyond.
Team that has been caught cheating before has man called deflator take balls into bathroom to deflate them and gets caught red handed again. Exactly the same as 9/11.
posted by Drinky Die at 1:40 PM on September 6, 2015
Team that has been caught cheating before has man called deflator take balls into bathroom to deflate them and gets caught red handed again. Exactly the same as 9/11.
posted by Drinky Die at 1:40 PM on September 6, 2015
As for the equipment managers, they were not banned from working for the team by the NFL. (You insane conspiracy theorist, how could you suggest that!? I think you need a lecture on manufacturing consent!) The NFL said they were not allowed to prepare the footballs or other equipment because they cheated when they had that job. The team could have found another role for them if they wanted. They didn't, they fired them because they helped the team cheat. For innocent men, you find another role.
Teams have no internal process to fight with.
And yes, the team could have appealed. Kraft made a big deal of not doing so.
This is just getting silly.
posted by Drinky Die at 1:51 PM on September 6, 2015
Teams have no internal process to fight with.
And yes, the team could have appealed. Kraft made a big deal of not doing so.
This is just getting silly.
posted by Drinky Die at 1:51 PM on September 6, 2015
I guess some people are just happy to root for a quarterback who allegedly was generally aware that a staff member was deflating footballs by an average of 0.3 PSI instead of, say, a convicted dog killer. Agreed on the silly part, though!
posted by one_bean at 2:05 PM on September 6, 2015
posted by one_bean at 2:05 PM on September 6, 2015
Root for whoever you want. I don't mind that the Phillies cheated in 2008. Trophy is still ours.
posted by Drinky Die at 2:40 PM on September 6, 2015
posted by Drinky Die at 2:40 PM on September 6, 2015
>>Teams have no internal process to fight with.
>And yes, the team could have appealed. Kraft made a big deal of not doing so.
That is just not true. There is no appeal mechanism for owners. And if you take the league to court you've violated the league's constitution. You've gone full Al Davis.
If you're interested in the legal and procedural ins and outs of all this, I suggest looking up either Stephanie Stradley or Michael McCann who's been writing about this at SI.com. Here's McCann on Kraft's options:
posted by Trochanter at 3:39 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
>And yes, the team could have appealed. Kraft made a big deal of not doing so.
That is just not true. There is no appeal mechanism for owners. And if you take the league to court you've violated the league's constitution. You've gone full Al Davis.
If you're interested in the legal and procedural ins and outs of all this, I suggest looking up either Stephanie Stradley or Michael McCann who's been writing about this at SI.com. Here's McCann on Kraft's options:
Unlike Brady, the Patriots have no collectively bargained right to an appeal. Their only source for appeal is to reach out to Goodell and hope he or a designate of his choosing revises the punishment. The Patriots are members of a franchise of leagues and are contractually bound to follow the NFL’s constitution and other legal instruments. The NFL’s constitution makes clear teams can’t take their grievances to court and that any attempt to do so would likely be futile. Like the other 31 NFL ownership groups, Kraft has agreed to abide by the Constitution and assented to not sue the league or other owners.We've agreed on many things Drinkie Die, I hope you'll look into this further. (Actually, I don't care, it's a stupid sports story. I look forward to agreeing with you on other matters again.)
In an appeal to Goodell, Kraft would implore the commissioner to reconsider the severity of the penalty. Kraft might ask other teams’ owners to weigh in privately, as well. Unfortunately for Kraft, this approach would likely fail. Goodell is now wedded to this historic penalty. If he reduces it, some would argue it is because of Goodell’s perceived close relationship with Kraft or because Kraft is powerful. Others would describe Goodell as weak and question why he would impose such a harsh penalty in the first place. Goodell lowering the Patriots penalty would also risk a slippery slope effect: it would create precedent for other teams’ owners to petition the commissioner for leniency.
posted by Trochanter at 3:39 PM on September 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
>And yes, the team could have appealed. Kraft made a big deal of not doing so.
That is just not true. There is no appeal mechanism for owners.
Yes, there is, your quote describes it. The Saints in fact appealed the Bountygate penalties. I'm not talking about court.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:04 PM on September 6, 2015
That is just not true. There is no appeal mechanism for owners.
Yes, there is, your quote describes it. The Saints in fact appealed the Bountygate penalties. I'm not talking about court.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:04 PM on September 6, 2015
So he could have begged. Okay.
Look we get you in week 13. See you then.
posted by Trochanter at 5:11 PM on September 6, 2015
Look we get you in week 13. See you then.
posted by Trochanter at 5:11 PM on September 6, 2015
Goodell is a good friend of his. He could have appealed in a respectful way with a peer. He wouldn't have won though, because the league caught them red handed with the deflator taking the balls into the bathroom after the refs had inspected them. That part, as far as I am aware, is not even in dispute. That's why he didn't appeal. Brady appealed because he had a case. The team did not.
And yeah, I expect to lose that game, the Eagles always lose to the Pats. Just beat the Cowboys too for us.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:19 PM on September 6, 2015
And yeah, I expect to lose that game, the Eagles always lose to the Pats. Just beat the Cowboys too for us.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:19 PM on September 6, 2015
(THAT'S the team I would go truther on just out of hate if they had a scandal, not the friggin Pats. My biggest hate for the Pats is they let the Giants get two trophies on their watch.)
posted by Drinky Die at 5:27 PM on September 6, 2015
posted by Drinky Die at 5:27 PM on September 6, 2015
Brofist
posted by Trochanter at 5:30 PM on September 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Trochanter at 5:30 PM on September 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
Goodell is a good friend of his. He could have appealed in a respectful way with a peer. He wouldn't have won though, because the league caught them red handed with the deflator taking the balls into the bathroom after the refs had inspected them. That part, as far as I am aware, is not even in dispute. That's why he didn't appeal. Brady appealed because he had a case. The team did not.
One useful technique of propaganda is to give your side a toolkit of truthy sounding bits that can be strung together to make what sounds like a coherent argument. And when someone takes apart that argument, simply ignore the response and repeat. It helps if you include irrelevant side arguments that take away attention from the parts of your argument that make the least sense.
It's tempting to take your paragraph above and dissect it line by line because literally every single sentence contains an unsupported assertion, assumption, and/or conclusion not supported by facts or logic. But, the last time I tried, you didn't attempt to defend a single one of your original assertions. Instead you just snarked.
Metafilter isn't a debating platform - there aren't points to win or lose, and there are no judges to rule at the end. But I think readers that have made it this far can tell the difference between the quality and responsiveness of arguments being made by one side and the other.
And Drinkie Die, maybe you're just trolling for the fun of it or maybe you're a die-hard fan and have the blinders on. Or maybe you sincerely believe what you believe after doing a lot of independent investigation of primary sources (though I doubt this quite a lot). But to me, you're coming across exactly the same way that I see 9/11 truthers, birthers, climate change denalists, and many other conspiracy-minded people coming across, and propaganda plays a big part in creating those arguments in the first place.
posted by Harvey Byrd at 6:28 PM on September 7, 2015
One useful technique of propaganda is to give your side a toolkit of truthy sounding bits that can be strung together to make what sounds like a coherent argument. And when someone takes apart that argument, simply ignore the response and repeat. It helps if you include irrelevant side arguments that take away attention from the parts of your argument that make the least sense.
It's tempting to take your paragraph above and dissect it line by line because literally every single sentence contains an unsupported assertion, assumption, and/or conclusion not supported by facts or logic. But, the last time I tried, you didn't attempt to defend a single one of your original assertions. Instead you just snarked.
Metafilter isn't a debating platform - there aren't points to win or lose, and there are no judges to rule at the end. But I think readers that have made it this far can tell the difference between the quality and responsiveness of arguments being made by one side and the other.
And Drinkie Die, maybe you're just trolling for the fun of it or maybe you're a die-hard fan and have the blinders on. Or maybe you sincerely believe what you believe after doing a lot of independent investigation of primary sources (though I doubt this quite a lot). But to me, you're coming across exactly the same way that I see 9/11 truthers, birthers, climate change denalists, and many other conspiracy-minded people coming across, and propaganda plays a big part in creating those arguments in the first place.
posted by Harvey Byrd at 6:28 PM on September 7, 2015
Well now that Deflategate has turned into a big nothing, Spygate is getting brought back up.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 7:29 AM on September 8, 2015
posted by Elementary Penguin at 7:29 AM on September 8, 2015
From the ESPN report:
When Spygate broke, some of the Eagles now believed they had an answer for a question that had vexed them since they lost to the Patriots 24-21 in Super Bowl XXXIX: How did New England seem completely prepared for the rarely used dime defense the Eagles deployed in the second quarter, scoring touchdowns on three of four drives? The Eagles suspected that either practices were filmed or a playbook was stolen. "To this day, some believe that we were robbed by the Patriots not playing by the rules ... and knowing our game plan," a former Eagles football operations staffer says.
posted by bukvich at 8:31 AM on September 8, 2015
When Spygate broke, some of the Eagles now believed they had an answer for a question that had vexed them since they lost to the Patriots 24-21 in Super Bowl XXXIX: How did New England seem completely prepared for the rarely used dime defense the Eagles deployed in the second quarter, scoring touchdowns on three of four drives? The Eagles suspected that either practices were filmed or a playbook was stolen. "To this day, some believe that we were robbed by the Patriots not playing by the rules ... and knowing our game plan," a former Eagles football operations staffer says.
posted by bukvich at 8:31 AM on September 8, 2015
Notice how since someone else said it, the writer (I won't give him or her the title of Journalist) can simply leave the accusation floating there without any backing. This is pretty much a classic example of Weasel Words.
To this day, some believe that Obama is a secret muslim, born in Kenya and ineligible to take office except for a conspiracy of fraud by the liberal wing of the Democratic party.
I refuse to click on the ESPN link, but I assume the next paragraph is not about how this former Eagles football operations staffer engages in delusional thinking in order to maintain his self worth.
posted by Harvey Byrd at 9:34 AM on September 8, 2015
To this day, some believe that Obama is a secret muslim, born in Kenya and ineligible to take office except for a conspiracy of fraud by the liberal wing of the Democratic party.
I refuse to click on the ESPN link, but I assume the next paragraph is not about how this former Eagles football operations staffer engages in delusional thinking in order to maintain his self worth.
posted by Harvey Byrd at 9:34 AM on September 8, 2015
I think I would have gone back to the nickel after the first time it was obviously not working, but I'm a fan not a coach.
posted by bukvich at 10:50 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by bukvich at 10:50 AM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
ESPN: Spygate to Deflategate: Inside what split the NFL and Patriots apart
Interviews by ESPN The Magazine and Outside the Lines with more than 90 league officials, owners, team executives and coaches, current and former Patriots coaches, staffers and players, and reviews of previously undisclosed private notes from key meetings, show that Spygate is the centerpiece of a long, secret history between Goodell's NFL, which declined comment for this story, and Kraft's Patriots. The diametrically opposed way the inquiries were managed by Goodell -- and, more importantly, perceived by his bosses -- reveals much about how and why NFL punishment is often dispensed. The widespread perception that Goodell gave the Patriots a break on Spygate, followed by the NFL's stonewalling of a potential congressional investigation into the matter, shaped owners' expectations of what needed to be done by 345 Park Ave. on Deflategate.posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:39 PM on September 8, 2015
I think I would have gone back to the nickel after the first time it was obviously not working, but I'm a fan not a coach.
Jim Johnson was a hall of fame quality defensive coach. I'm sure he had had his reasons. I was more impressed by the Pats blitz pickup in the game, never saw JJ's blitzers get handled so well, even in other games against the Pats.
I recall the Eagles once used towels to try and hide defensive signals from being seen from other angles during a game. Can't for the life of me recall if this was before or after spygate, but I think the lack of it in the Super Bowl suggests they were not paranoid about it at the time.
One useful technique of propaganda is to give your side a toolkit of truthy sounding bits that can be strung together to make what sounds like a coherent argument. And when someone takes apart that argument, simply ignore the response and repeat. It helps if you include irrelevant side arguments that take away attention from the parts of your argument that make the least sense.
It's pretty funny how hard you are projecting your own issues on me. You think it's a sign of conspiracy thinking that you ignore the other side, and then refuse to click on an ESPN link. You talk about derailing with side issues and bring up everything from Nazis to Birthers. You accuse your opponent of being a troll who isn't interested in debate but then dismiss the other side without even supporting your views. You are being extremely silly and overwrought.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:02 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
Jim Johnson was a hall of fame quality defensive coach. I'm sure he had had his reasons. I was more impressed by the Pats blitz pickup in the game, never saw JJ's blitzers get handled so well, even in other games against the Pats.
I recall the Eagles once used towels to try and hide defensive signals from being seen from other angles during a game. Can't for the life of me recall if this was before or after spygate, but I think the lack of it in the Super Bowl suggests they were not paranoid about it at the time.
One useful technique of propaganda is to give your side a toolkit of truthy sounding bits that can be strung together to make what sounds like a coherent argument. And when someone takes apart that argument, simply ignore the response and repeat. It helps if you include irrelevant side arguments that take away attention from the parts of your argument that make the least sense.
It's pretty funny how hard you are projecting your own issues on me. You think it's a sign of conspiracy thinking that you ignore the other side, and then refuse to click on an ESPN link. You talk about derailing with side issues and bring up everything from Nazis to Birthers. You accuse your opponent of being a troll who isn't interested in debate but then dismiss the other side without even supporting your views. You are being extremely silly and overwrought.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:02 PM on September 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
(Googling around on the towels thing I see some people saying it was used during the Super Bowl. That is not my recollection. But whatever, my memory is too hazy to pin this down. Also, I meant to note that my recollection was that this was not a Pats game at all.)
posted by Drinky Die at 4:08 PM on September 8, 2015
posted by Drinky Die at 4:08 PM on September 8, 2015
I refuse to click on the ESPN link
It's usually really hard to spot bad faith on the Internet, so thanks for making it crystal clear for us!
posted by tonycpsu at 7:19 PM on September 8, 2015
It's usually really hard to spot bad faith on the Internet, so thanks for making it crystal clear for us!
posted by tonycpsu at 7:19 PM on September 8, 2015
The biggest thing in the ESPN piece is the stuff with Mike Martz.
The league altered the statement he prepared for them. For the consumption of a U.S. Senator.
Juuust made a few changes...
posted by Trochanter at 9:56 PM on September 8, 2015
The league altered the statement he prepared for them. For the consumption of a U.S. Senator.
Juuust made a few changes...
posted by Trochanter at 9:56 PM on September 8, 2015
Thought it needed to be punchier.
posted by Trochanter at 9:57 PM on September 8, 2015
posted by Trochanter at 9:57 PM on September 8, 2015
That or he just forgot what he said in 7 years, that was a weird inclusion to me.
posted by Drinky Die at 10:05 PM on September 8, 2015
posted by Drinky Die at 10:05 PM on September 8, 2015
To expand on that, Mike Florio points out that the statement was published at the time. It's a weird situation if Martz is just now noticing something changed. And also, I kind of think the general opinion around the NFL is that his genius at playcalling was a bit exaggerated during the Greatest Show period. It had a lot to do with some amazing talent on that Rams roster, he was never that great without players like Warner and Faulk and Bruce. (And as an Eagles fan, I have to give a lot of credit to Dick Vermeil for putting it all together originally.) It's a really weird article in a lot of ways.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:48 AM on September 9, 2015
posted by Drinky Die at 4:48 AM on September 9, 2015
Source: Pats have requested reinstatement of Jastremski and McNally
I don't know how much Goodell's authority has been hurt by all this mess. the overturning seems to have been a lot higher profile than the reversals in things like bountygate or ray rice. It does seem like the next CBA negotiation is going to be a total bloodbath. I wonder if Goodell will still be around in 2020 for that.
posted by grandsham at 8:04 AM on September 9, 2015
I don't know how much Goodell's authority has been hurt by all this mess. the overturning seems to have been a lot higher profile than the reversals in things like bountygate or ray rice. It does seem like the next CBA negotiation is going to be a total bloodbath. I wonder if Goodell will still be around in 2020 for that.
posted by grandsham at 8:04 AM on September 9, 2015
I don't know how much Goodell's authority has been hurt by all this mess.
I think it's been hurt a lot, especially in the eyes of his bosses, the owners. They've now been confronted with very public proof that A) Goodell will cover up misdeeds by his buddies, and also B) try to make up for it down the road. Regardless of whether a manager is nice or mean, he can't be inconsistent, or all hell breaks loose.
The owners are probably increasingly convinced that Goodell isn't really that big a factor in the NFL's ascension, as has been the narrative for the past couple of decades. Changing the guard won't hurt them nearly as much as another public smackdown of their commissioner.
posted by Etrigan at 8:24 AM on September 9, 2015
I think it's been hurt a lot, especially in the eyes of his bosses, the owners. They've now been confronted with very public proof that A) Goodell will cover up misdeeds by his buddies, and also B) try to make up for it down the road. Regardless of whether a manager is nice or mean, he can't be inconsistent, or all hell breaks loose.
The owners are probably increasingly convinced that Goodell isn't really that big a factor in the NFL's ascension, as has been the narrative for the past couple of decades. Changing the guard won't hurt them nearly as much as another public smackdown of their commissioner.
posted by Etrigan at 8:24 AM on September 9, 2015
The deadspin article is hilarious. They didn't even mention their pro-bowl tight end doing life for murder 1. Was that polite or did they forget about it?
posted by bukvich at 1:31 PM on September 9, 2015
posted by bukvich at 1:31 PM on September 9, 2015
I think it's been hurt a lot, especially in the eyes of his bosses, the owners.
That's where you have to figure out if you trust the ESPN article or not. One of the main arguments in it seems to be that there is a group of owners very satisfied that the Pats finally got what they had coming for spygate and other suspicions people had over the years regardless of how it went down.
posted by Drinky Die at 2:05 PM on September 9, 2015
That's where you have to figure out if you trust the ESPN article or not. One of the main arguments in it seems to be that there is a group of owners very satisfied that the Pats finally got what they had coming for spygate and other suspicions people had over the years regardless of how it went down.
posted by Drinky Die at 2:05 PM on September 9, 2015
Tom Brady Haunted By Destroyed Cell Phone Ringing Beneath Floorboards
posted by Drinky Die at 5:25 PM on September 10, 2015
posted by Drinky Die at 5:25 PM on September 10, 2015
Live, right now, NBC reports the Steelers headsets were receiving the Patriots radio play-by-play broadcast. Jeff Miller, head of NFL security, is on the Patriots sideline.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:14 PM on September 10, 2015
posted by Drinky Die at 6:14 PM on September 10, 2015
^Not the onion.
posted by Drinky Die at 6:15 PM on September 10, 2015
posted by Drinky Die at 6:15 PM on September 10, 2015
This is the kind of stuff that happens to the visiting team in Gillette Stadium all the time. From the start of the game through the opening 14 minutes of the first quarter, the Steelers’ coaches’ headsets were receiving the Patriots Radio Network broadcast of the game. The broadcast was so loud that the Steelers coaches were unable to communicate, and the NFL rule is that if one team’s headsets are not working the other team is supposed to be forced to take their headsets off. It’s what the NFL calls the Equity Rule. Strangely enough, whenever an NFL representative proceeded to the New England sideline to shut down their headsets, the Steelers headsets cleared. Then as the representative walked away from the New England sideline, the Steelers’ headsets again started to receive the Patriots game broadcast.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:59 AM on September 11, 2015
posted by tonycpsu at 6:59 AM on September 11, 2015
What Exactly Happened With The Steelers' Headsets?
posted by tonycpsu at 7:01 AM on September 11, 2015
posted by tonycpsu at 7:01 AM on September 11, 2015
On a hunch, I come back here and see that this thread's still active. What a surprise!
And another week, another Patriots "scandal". Amazing that the Patriots are so brazen as to perform their latest trick in the first quarter of the first game of the season on a nationally broadcast game. They've even gotten Belichick to lie about his headsets having the exact same problems during the game.
Once again we're in the land of "prove you didn't do it", where Occam's razor has been thrown away. It's so much more exciting to live in a universe where Belichick, Ernie Adams, Tom Brady and Robert Kraft are mega-villains running a massive conspiracy!
Of course it couldn't be the case that these radio communications problems happen all the time - for instance during the 2010 AFC Championship Game at Heinz Field vs. the Jets. Other stories abound.
What this really shows is that the NFL through it's own incompetence (though partially intentionally) has managed to get everyone convinced that the Patriots are out to get them. It's made not only the fan bases, but the players and coaches of 31 teams delusionally paranoid. Teams are hiring people to sweep locker rooms for bugs - for real!
I've said before that I've thought we've seen Peak NFL, and this confirms it even further.
Tell me - if you really think that Tom Brady and the Patriots are the Lance Armstrong of the NFL, why are you still watching? If the NFL allows a new cheating rumor about the Patriots to come out ever week and dominate the sports headlines, then why shouldn't a casual non-Patriots fan conclude that we've entered WWE scripted entertainment territory and that the outcome of these games are predetermined? Have you seen the ratings for the Tour de France in the last couple of years?
This is why I think that people that say "any publicity is good publicity" or that negative stories are fine as long as they're about another team are just plain wrong.
I actually don't think the NFL or ESPN is behind this story (to address anyone thinking that I'm the conspiracy theorist) - I think they would very much not like this to blow up in their face. They're stuck because they don't want a new, bigger scandal playing itself out during the season and overshadowing real games, but the only way out is to acknowledge the fact that they're incompetent in overseeing the in-game communications, and that these problems happen all the time.
If there's anything that the NFL is really bad at, it's at acknowledging that they're not doing a good job at doing something. But now they are in a place where if they don't take a strong stand on one side or the other, they'll be accused of sweeping the whole issue under the rug!
posted by Harvey Byrd at 11:20 AM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
And another week, another Patriots "scandal". Amazing that the Patriots are so brazen as to perform their latest trick in the first quarter of the first game of the season on a nationally broadcast game. They've even gotten Belichick to lie about his headsets having the exact same problems during the game.
Once again we're in the land of "prove you didn't do it", where Occam's razor has been thrown away. It's so much more exciting to live in a universe where Belichick, Ernie Adams, Tom Brady and Robert Kraft are mega-villains running a massive conspiracy!
Of course it couldn't be the case that these radio communications problems happen all the time - for instance during the 2010 AFC Championship Game at Heinz Field vs. the Jets. Other stories abound.
What this really shows is that the NFL through it's own incompetence (though partially intentionally) has managed to get everyone convinced that the Patriots are out to get them. It's made not only the fan bases, but the players and coaches of 31 teams delusionally paranoid. Teams are hiring people to sweep locker rooms for bugs - for real!
I've said before that I've thought we've seen Peak NFL, and this confirms it even further.
Tell me - if you really think that Tom Brady and the Patriots are the Lance Armstrong of the NFL, why are you still watching? If the NFL allows a new cheating rumor about the Patriots to come out ever week and dominate the sports headlines, then why shouldn't a casual non-Patriots fan conclude that we've entered WWE scripted entertainment territory and that the outcome of these games are predetermined? Have you seen the ratings for the Tour de France in the last couple of years?
This is why I think that people that say "any publicity is good publicity" or that negative stories are fine as long as they're about another team are just plain wrong.
I actually don't think the NFL or ESPN is behind this story (to address anyone thinking that I'm the conspiracy theorist) - I think they would very much not like this to blow up in their face. They're stuck because they don't want a new, bigger scandal playing itself out during the season and overshadowing real games, but the only way out is to acknowledge the fact that they're incompetent in overseeing the in-game communications, and that these problems happen all the time.
If there's anything that the NFL is really bad at, it's at acknowledging that they're not doing a good job at doing something. But now they are in a place where if they don't take a strong stand on one side or the other, they'll be accused of sweeping the whole issue under the rug!
posted by Harvey Byrd at 11:20 AM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
You know that point in an online discussion where someone is a little too eager to fill two screens with impugning of motives, counteraccusations, and explosion of the issue, sprinkled liberally with exclamation points?
posted by Etrigan at 11:44 AM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Etrigan at 11:44 AM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Point taken. Time to take a deep breath.
posted by Harvey Byrd at 1:44 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Harvey Byrd at 1:44 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Tell me - if you really think that Tom Brady and the Patriots are the Lance Armstrong of the NFL, why are you still watching? If the NFL allows a new cheating rumor about the Patriots to come out ever week and dominate the sports headlines, then why shouldn't a casual non-Patriots fan conclude that we've entered WWE scripted entertainment territory and that the outcome of these games are predetermined?
Well, the WWE can be fun. Patriots make a great classic heel, always cheating when the refs have their back turned and such. The problem is pushing Eli as their nemesis, he doesn't make a good face.
posted by Drinky Die at 1:59 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, the WWE can be fun. Patriots make a great classic heel, always cheating when the refs have their back turned and such. The problem is pushing Eli as their nemesis, he doesn't make a good face.
posted by Drinky Die at 1:59 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
The problem is pushing Eli as their nemesis, he doesn't make a good face.
I was fairly certain that I, a longtime connoisseur of Manningface in all its dual glories, was going to recognize whatever came up when I clicked on that link, but you, sir and/or madam, have bestowed upon me an entirely new one, and for that, I thank you.
posted by Etrigan at 5:49 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was fairly certain that I, a longtime connoisseur of Manningface in all its dual glories, was going to recognize whatever came up when I clicked on that link, but you, sir and/or madam, have bestowed upon me an entirely new one, and for that, I thank you.
posted by Etrigan at 5:49 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
NFL clears Pats of headset suspicion; electrical issue, weather at fault
FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- The NFL says the New England Patriots had nothing to do with audio interference that rendered the Pittsburgh Steelers' coaching headsets useless during the first quarter on opening night Thursday.
Spokesman Michael Signora said Friday that the league believes the problem "involved no manipulation by any individual and that the Patriots had nothing to do with it."
posted by dfan at 5:01 PM on September 12, 2015
FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- The NFL says the New England Patriots had nothing to do with audio interference that rendered the Pittsburgh Steelers' coaching headsets useless during the first quarter on opening night Thursday.
Spokesman Michael Signora said Friday that the league believes the problem "involved no manipulation by any individual and that the Patriots had nothing to do with it."
posted by dfan at 5:01 PM on September 12, 2015
So what you're saying is that the Patriots definitely did it, the NFL definitely knew about it, and the Patriots will get hammered by the NFL after someone published proof that the NFL knew the Patriots did it all along.
posted by Etrigan at 7:10 PM on September 12, 2015
posted by Etrigan at 7:10 PM on September 12, 2015
I know a guy who can get the NFL some spread spectrum freq hopping radios, gently used.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:26 PM on September 12, 2015
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:26 PM on September 12, 2015
OK, the accusations of cheating I could handle, but that's going too far.
posted by dfan at 4:26 PM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by dfan at 4:26 PM on September 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
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posted by tonycpsu at 9:29 AM on September 5, 2015 [27 favorites]