“You don't lick your boom boom down...”
September 10, 2015 3:44 PM Subscribe
Justin Timberlake and Jimmy Fallon Perform the History of Rap Part 6 [YouTube]
Featuring:
Featuring:
∙ R. Kelly & Jay Z – “Fiesta”
∙ LL Cool J – “Rock the Bells”
∙ Whodini – “Friends”
∙ Slick Rick & Doug E. Fresh – “La Di Da Di”
∙ Public Enemy – “Fight the Power”
∙ NWA – “Straight Outta Compton”
∙ Salt-N-Pepa – “Let’s Talk About Sex”
∙ MC Hammer – “U Can’t Touch This”
∙ DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince – “Summertime”
∙ Wu-Tang Clan – “C.R.E.A.M.”
∙ Notorious B.I.G. (feat. Puff Daddy & Mase) – “Mo Money Mo Problems”
∙ Snow – “Informer”
∙ Nelly – “Country Grammar”
∙ Bone Thugs-n-Harmony – “Crossroads”
∙ R. Kelly – “Ignition (Remix)”
∙ Chris Brown – Look at Me Now (feat. Lil Wayne & Busta Rhymes)
∙ Kendrick Lamar – “Bitch Don't Kill My Vibe”
∙ Drake - “Know Yourself”
∙ Big Sean – “I Don’t F*** With You”
∙ Jay Z & Kanye West – “Otis”
∙ Fetty Wap – “My Way”
∙ Ace Hood (feat. Future Rick Ross) – “Bugatti”
∙ Beastie Boys – “Fight For Your Right”
so the logic is that music predominantly written by and for black Americans is hypermasculine and it's absurd these two are performing it?
that seems like a slightly less weird but still really weird calculus
posted by runt at 4:49 PM on September 10, 2015 [9 favorites]
that seems like a slightly less weird but still really weird calculus
posted by runt at 4:49 PM on September 10, 2015 [9 favorites]
Yeah, honestly, the whole "LOL dorky white people rapping" thing can't die fast or hard enough. I cringe every time one of these videos gets posted to MeFi.
It's been done to death, it rarely shows much respect for (or understanding of) actual hip-hop (this video being somewhat of an exception), and the premises on which the (alleged) humor rests (white people are like this! black people are like that! here are some white people doing a black thing, and that's hilarious!) are...questionable.
Also, the flow is usually terrible (this video, again, being somewhat of an exception).
I don't even believe that white people should never do hip-hop—just that, if they're gonna do it, they need to convince me that they respect the form, and aren't just imitating that cuh-razy hippity-hop music for yuks.
Which is exactly what they're doing here.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:53 PM on September 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
It's been done to death, it rarely shows much respect for (or understanding of) actual hip-hop (this video being somewhat of an exception), and the premises on which the (alleged) humor rests (white people are like this! black people are like that! here are some white people doing a black thing, and that's hilarious!) are...questionable.
Also, the flow is usually terrible (this video, again, being somewhat of an exception).
I don't even believe that white people should never do hip-hop—just that, if they're gonna do it, they need to convince me that they respect the form, and aren't just imitating that cuh-razy hippity-hop music for yuks.
Which is exactly what they're doing here.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:53 PM on September 10, 2015 [7 favorites]
What's weird to me is that they they think this was soooo funny the first time that we need five (and counting) more nearly-identical iterations.
GREAT COMEDY IS REPETITION!
posted by LooseFilter at 4:56 PM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
GREAT COMEDY IS REPETITION!
posted by LooseFilter at 4:56 PM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, I think the racial stuff around hip hop performance needs to be considered in the context of authenticity, as it has arisen around American popular music since the advent of recording technologies. It's not just about race, though that's a big part of it.
posted by LooseFilter at 4:59 PM on September 10, 2015
posted by LooseFilter at 4:59 PM on September 10, 2015
I do wonder what the Roots think of this in their heart-of-hearts, though.
posted by Mid at 5:01 PM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Mid at 5:01 PM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Oh, I thought the first one was quite charming.
I do wonder what the Roots think of this in their heart-of-hearts, though.
According to the gossip, they think very poorly of it (Fallon generally, not just this bit).
posted by LooseFilter at 5:12 PM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I do wonder what the Roots think of this in their heart-of-hearts, though.
According to the gossip, they think very poorly of it (Fallon generally, not just this bit).
posted by LooseFilter at 5:12 PM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Why would the Roots agree to be Fallon's house band if they think poorly of him? They're successful enough that they don't need it.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 5:18 PM on September 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 5:18 PM on September 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
GREAT COMEDY IS REPETITION!
posted by leotrotsky at 5:23 PM on September 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 5:23 PM on September 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
According to the gossip, they think very poorly of it (Fallon generally, not just this bit).
Yup. Epic. @JimmyFallon, @jtimberlake & @theroots present #HistoryOfRap6 http://youtu.be/1omPNEVOIaM this job can't get any more fun-ner.
Please do not try to Uncle Tom Questlove FFS.
posted by gwint at 5:25 PM on September 10, 2015 [20 favorites]
Yup. Epic. @JimmyFallon, @jtimberlake & @theroots present #HistoryOfRap6 http://youtu.be/1omPNEVOIaM this job can't get any more fun-ner.
Please do not try to Uncle Tom Questlove FFS.
posted by gwint at 5:25 PM on September 10, 2015 [20 favorites]
There's no way to know how sarcastic that tweet is, of course.
posted by timdiggerm at 5:27 PM on September 10, 2015
posted by timdiggerm at 5:27 PM on September 10, 2015
There's no way to tell how far my eyes are rolling right now.
posted by gwint at 5:29 PM on September 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by gwint at 5:29 PM on September 10, 2015 [6 favorites]
I mean, I also wouldn't trust a public facing Twitter account for a popular band to be written with any genuine sentiment or even by any of the actual band members. I mean, who's going to risk their job just because one of their co-workers says something insensitive?
posted by runt at 5:34 PM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by runt at 5:34 PM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter: There's no way to know how sarcastic that tweet is, of course.
posted by Fizz at 5:39 PM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Fizz at 5:39 PM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you don't understand just how fucking hilarious ?uestlove is, dude, we can't help you. Dude is FUNNY. He loves comedy. Did you see him on 'Dave Chapelle's Block Party' for the love of pete?
posted by gsh at 5:44 PM on September 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by gsh at 5:44 PM on September 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
This strikes me less as an attempt at comedy and more as a genuine love-letter to hip-hop from a group of men all of whom are musicians and fans of the genre.
posted by eustacescrubb at 5:45 PM on September 10, 2015 [31 favorites]
posted by eustacescrubb at 5:45 PM on September 10, 2015 [31 favorites]
This had me smiling even though I also hate the politics of it and also am almost ready to hard pass on all late-night Fallon because of his POV-less "funtime with celebrities" schtick. Tired of generic lulz from affable white guys, basically
posted by wemayfreeze at 5:49 PM on September 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by wemayfreeze at 5:49 PM on September 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
Seriously this place can take the fun out of anything.
It's a video of a bland, unfunny late-night talk show host doing a dad-rap performance. There's no fun there for us to take out.
Here's some commentary on the previous installment of "The History of Rap". So it's not just killjoy MeFites who are a little taken aback by this thing.
I imagine that your response to these videos depends, in part, on your relationship with hip-hop. I'm not a die-hard hip-hop head by any means, but I grew up with the music, and it's had a profound impact on much of the music that I am most passionate about. It's always been a familiar part of the cultural fabric around me.
On the other hand, the whole "LOL dorky white people rapping" phenomenon is almost entirely non-hip-hop fans pointing and laughing from the outside. Not even laughing derisively, necessarily—but it doesn't have to be derisive to feel crass and dismissive. It treats hip-hop as a novelty, an "other", something to be enjoyed but held at arm's length. The whole joke relies on the assumption that the audience is coming from that position.
That's what gets me. It's a joke for people who think that hip-hop—one of the most popular and influential musical forms of the late 20th and early 21st century, mind—is kind of funny and peculiar.
I mean, hip-hop is certainly has its excesses and foibles and controversies, and no one is obliged to like it. But it should not be alien enough to anyone to make that joke work.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:50 PM on September 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
It's a video of a bland, unfunny late-night talk show host doing a dad-rap performance. There's no fun there for us to take out.
Here's some commentary on the previous installment of "The History of Rap". So it's not just killjoy MeFites who are a little taken aback by this thing.
I imagine that your response to these videos depends, in part, on your relationship with hip-hop. I'm not a die-hard hip-hop head by any means, but I grew up with the music, and it's had a profound impact on much of the music that I am most passionate about. It's always been a familiar part of the cultural fabric around me.
On the other hand, the whole "LOL dorky white people rapping" phenomenon is almost entirely non-hip-hop fans pointing and laughing from the outside. Not even laughing derisively, necessarily—but it doesn't have to be derisive to feel crass and dismissive. It treats hip-hop as a novelty, an "other", something to be enjoyed but held at arm's length. The whole joke relies on the assumption that the audience is coming from that position.
That's what gets me. It's a joke for people who think that hip-hop—one of the most popular and influential musical forms of the late 20th and early 21st century, mind—is kind of funny and peculiar.
I mean, hip-hop is certainly has its excesses and foibles and controversies, and no one is obliged to like it. But it should not be alien enough to anyone to make that joke work.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:50 PM on September 10, 2015 [5 favorites]
I imagine that your response to these videos depends, in part, on your relationship with hip-hop. I'm not a die-hard hip-hop head by any means, but I grew up with the music, and it's had a profound impact on much of the music that I am most passionate about.
I imagine that Mr. Timberlake and Mr. Fallon feel the same way about hip-hop themselves, and that THAT is why they do these bits.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:56 PM on September 10, 2015 [9 favorites]
I imagine that Mr. Timberlake and Mr. Fallon feel the same way about hip-hop themselves, and that THAT is why they do these bits.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:56 PM on September 10, 2015 [9 favorites]
Enjoy yourselves.
Thanks! We will! That's why we loaded up the website on our browsers!
posted by Aizkolari at 5:58 PM on September 10, 2015
Thanks! We will! That's why we loaded up the website on our browsers!
posted by Aizkolari at 5:58 PM on September 10, 2015
This is why St Colbert has returned, to give us something other than the bland, earnest, simplistic, unaware. and utterly insipid Fallon.
posted by Ber at 6:01 PM on September 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Ber at 6:01 PM on September 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
Well, they did interrupt the flow long enough to take a wee shot at Snow for being a white guy doing rap.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 6:03 PM on September 10, 2015
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 6:03 PM on September 10, 2015
It's a video of a bland, unfunny late-night talk show host doing a dad-rap performance. There's no fun there for us to take out.
I like the video and I like Jimmy Fallon. I think Fallon has fun doing his show and so do a lot of that celebrities that go to his show. You can see the difference if you look at other late night shows.
Anyway, this is probably one of those "your favorite band sucks" moments. Just because you (anyone) doesn't like it, doesn't means it's not any good.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 6:27 PM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
I like the video and I like Jimmy Fallon. I think Fallon has fun doing his show and so do a lot of that celebrities that go to his show. You can see the difference if you look at other late night shows.
Anyway, this is probably one of those "your favorite band sucks" moments. Just because you (anyone) doesn't like it, doesn't means it's not any good.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 6:27 PM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's a video of a bland, unfunny late-night talk show host doing a dad-rap performance. There's no fun there for us to take out.
Given that some people find this video fun and enjoyable, your statement is...objectively false? Right?
posted by timdiggerm at 6:30 PM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
Given that some people find this video fun and enjoyable, your statement is...objectively false? Right?
posted by timdiggerm at 6:30 PM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
I mean, I think it's solid work for late night TV but I was just trying to suss out why it felt weird to me given what I've learned about media representation and symbolism
which, as it turns out, is not exactly everybody's cup of tea. alas and alack, right?
posted by runt at 6:32 PM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
which, as it turns out, is not exactly everybody's cup of tea. alas and alack, right?
posted by runt at 6:32 PM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
timdiggerm: Right. I wasn't making a statement of objective fact.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:32 PM on September 10, 2015
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:32 PM on September 10, 2015
I imagine that your response to these videos depends, in part, on your relationship with hip-hop.
And how you relate to racial conflict. How you see all of these black people killed by white police.
I'm white. I like these two guys. I think this is fun video and I find it unobjectionable. They like the music--I believe that.
That said, we live in a country where black people get killed for being black, in the same way they were getting killed in 1980, 1964 -- and oh god, the decades before, centuries before -- all of these individual, specific crimes that are so different from a song, a poem, an anecdote, because they are crimes that involve a named human being.
I don't find Justin Timberlake or Jimmy Fallon appropriating this content to be an objectionable thing on its face, however, I think if you're going to do this you need to recognize that when you take some of these pieces of art, and you play with them---you owe those artists the recognition of where this came from and you owe something to the ghosts.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 6:37 PM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
And how you relate to racial conflict. How you see all of these black people killed by white police.
I'm white. I like these two guys. I think this is fun video and I find it unobjectionable. They like the music--I believe that.
That said, we live in a country where black people get killed for being black, in the same way they were getting killed in 1980, 1964 -- and oh god, the decades before, centuries before -- all of these individual, specific crimes that are so different from a song, a poem, an anecdote, because they are crimes that involve a named human being.
I don't find Justin Timberlake or Jimmy Fallon appropriating this content to be an objectionable thing on its face, however, I think if you're going to do this you need to recognize that when you take some of these pieces of art, and you play with them---you owe those artists the recognition of where this came from and you owe something to the ghosts.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 6:37 PM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
they did interrupt the flow long enough to take a wee shot at Snow for being a white guy doing rap.
Like Timberlake?
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:56 PM on September 10, 2015
Like Timberlake?
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:56 PM on September 10, 2015
This strikes me less as an attempt at comedy and more as a genuine love-letter to hip-hop from a group of men all of whom are musicians and fans of the genre.
This is exactly what it is. I've been listening to rap non-stop since it started, and this is a performance that pretty much every one of the covered artists would love. This whole "history of" thing that seemed to get popular when that one dude did the history of dance, is a good franchise.
I guess outside of hip hop a lot of you are getting angsty and worried, but inside hip hop, aint nothin wrong with this at all. Fallon even mimics the intonations, they're doing the dances, they're on beat and it has to be hard to remember all those stops and starts, and this is a really good video.
I mean I appreciate the consideration because sometimes when white artists try to interact with black art the results can be iffy, but like Lazy Sunday, this video is a good one.
Now I'd like to see them switch it up, and figure out a way to work some underground hip hop in there.
posted by cashman at 8:21 PM on September 10, 2015 [14 favorites]
This is exactly what it is. I've been listening to rap non-stop since it started, and this is a performance that pretty much every one of the covered artists would love. This whole "history of" thing that seemed to get popular when that one dude did the history of dance, is a good franchise.
I guess outside of hip hop a lot of you are getting angsty and worried, but inside hip hop, aint nothin wrong with this at all. Fallon even mimics the intonations, they're doing the dances, they're on beat and it has to be hard to remember all those stops and starts, and this is a really good video.
I mean I appreciate the consideration because sometimes when white artists try to interact with black art the results can be iffy, but like Lazy Sunday, this video is a good one.
Now I'd like to see them switch it up, and figure out a way to work some underground hip hop in there.
posted by cashman at 8:21 PM on September 10, 2015 [14 favorites]
I dunno if it's supposed to be comical as much as it is Fallon and Timberlake going "Look how talented and musically versatile we are" (which is the norm these days), with a dash of "Aren't we just so cute."
But looking at the votes on the YouTube page, I guess there's no reason for Fallon to do things any differently. And I take these as sincere tributes, not satirical. Still cloying, though.
posted by TheSecretDecoderRing at 8:22 PM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
But looking at the votes on the YouTube page, I guess there's no reason for Fallon to do things any differently. And I take these as sincere tributes, not satirical. Still cloying, though.
posted by TheSecretDecoderRing at 8:22 PM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
I dunno.
There's a way affluent white guys enjoy hiphop as pure entertainment that's just... iffy. A bunch of tracks in this medley are just goofy fluff that's totally suited to that purpose, but then there's a few that just plain are not exactly the sort of thing it's totally 100% A-OK for two obscenely wealthy white men to be dropping in their "fun" rap skit, you know?
posted by Sys Rq at 8:25 PM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
There's a way affluent white guys enjoy hiphop as pure entertainment that's just... iffy. A bunch of tracks in this medley are just goofy fluff that's totally suited to that purpose, but then there's a few that just plain are not exactly the sort of thing it's totally 100% A-OK for two obscenely wealthy white men to be dropping in their "fun" rap skit, you know?
posted by Sys Rq at 8:25 PM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
then there's a few that just plain are not exactly the sort of thing
What? Fight the Power?
posted by cashman at 8:28 PM on September 10, 2015
What? Fight the Power?
posted by cashman at 8:28 PM on September 10, 2015
I have a feeling that if the two rich white dudes dropped all the rap songs that were not fun and goofy fluff it would be much, much more icky than it currently is.
If they're doing it as a love letter to a musical genre and the music they grew up with to a pretty large degree, then they don't get to ignore that part of the history.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:32 PM on September 10, 2015
If they're doing it as a love letter to a musical genre and the music they grew up with to a pretty large degree, then they don't get to ignore that part of the history.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:32 PM on September 10, 2015
This political policing of a couple guys playing around with hip-hop, which they obviously love, seems really overly serious and precious.
Even if they sucked, are folks suggesting that they shouldn't be doing hip-hop because they are white? Are we going to segment culture instead of embrace the mixture of styles, forms, and genres? Can't anybody, regardless of their race/color/creed have fun with a genre which interests them as long as they are doing it in a spirit of goodwill?
This segmentation, I just don't get it.
posted by tunewell at 8:37 PM on September 10, 2015 [9 favorites]
Even if they sucked, are folks suggesting that they shouldn't be doing hip-hop because they are white? Are we going to segment culture instead of embrace the mixture of styles, forms, and genres? Can't anybody, regardless of their race/color/creed have fun with a genre which interests them as long as they are doing it in a spirit of goodwill?
This segmentation, I just don't get it.
posted by tunewell at 8:37 PM on September 10, 2015 [9 favorites]
wait, did these guys start life obscenely wealthy, or did that happen later, for some unknown reason?
posted by wallabear at 8:41 PM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by wallabear at 8:41 PM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
Can't anybody, regardless of their race/color/creed have fun with a genre which interests them as long as they are doing it in a spirit of goodwill?
can they do it on national television? for the attention that generates ad revenue and sales? for an audience made up of a certain demographic? expressing particular sentiments that may ring well with that demo but perhaps not others?
I mean, there is definitely room for like individual enjoyment and appreciation and engagement. it's when you're on network TV broadcasting to millions that I think conversations like these are important to have, tunewell
also, discourses on race and politics are about ethics, right? calling it 'policing' seems really ungenerous and unhelpful especially in this context considering the effects of actual policing on minority populations
posted by runt at 8:44 PM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
can they do it on national television? for the attention that generates ad revenue and sales? for an audience made up of a certain demographic? expressing particular sentiments that may ring well with that demo but perhaps not others?
I mean, there is definitely room for like individual enjoyment and appreciation and engagement. it's when you're on network TV broadcasting to millions that I think conversations like these are important to have, tunewell
also, discourses on race and politics are about ethics, right? calling it 'policing' seems really ungenerous and unhelpful especially in this context considering the effects of actual policing on minority populations
posted by runt at 8:44 PM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
I .... what are yall complaining about, again? The effect of this on people who witnessed this would be either you know hip hop and you think this was a neat novelty, or a nice tribute, or you don't know hip hop and you look up the songs they did and you get introduced to a great slice of a world you didn't know before.
And the Roots are providing the music. I mean do we really think Thought would be anywhere near the production of something that disgraces hip hop?
I tried to touch the "can white people rap and it's okay?" thing, but it got bad. Please take that back to the 80's and leave it there.
posted by cashman at 8:57 PM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
And the Roots are providing the music. I mean do we really think Thought would be anywhere near the production of something that disgraces hip hop?
I tried to touch the "can white people rap and it's okay?" thing, but it got bad. Please take that back to the 80's and leave it there.
posted by cashman at 8:57 PM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
can they do it on national television? for the attention that generates ad revenue and sales?
Sure why not? Is anyone being persecuted by this act?
posted by tunewell at 9:04 PM on September 10, 2015
Sure why not? Is anyone being persecuted by this act?
posted by tunewell at 9:04 PM on September 10, 2015
it's about dialogue and cultural capital. like, is it ethically sound for a major, predominantly white entertainment producer to borrow the cultural capital of 'rap' music
I mean, I'm sure they're genuine and it was a good performance. but intentionality and aesthetics aside, you have a larger discourse on the role race plays in the American mainstream, if certain aspects of it are borrowed or if they're made to be, as another user said, a novelty. if there's compersion on the part of those borrowed from and locked out of managerial and producer roles and you were able to obtain that prior to producing the skit then I think you'd be approaching this from like a best practices/due diligence perspective. if not, then I think the weird feeling I had was right
I mean, I could also be confusing Fallon and JT and such for ye olden days of white performers on sketch comedy mocking AAVE and whatever pretense of 'hood culture' they were able to conjure up from watching police procedurals
Is anyone being persecuted by this act?
I mean, I don't think cultural analyses of systemic racism (like the way power is distributed in society, how media narratives frame conversations on race in unhealthy ways, how these representations also limit the number of narratives available for minority youth, etc) are looking at active, overt oppression. the KKK still exist and people like Dylann Roof still exist, sure, but that's not what we're talking about here
posted by runt at 9:08 PM on September 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
I mean, I'm sure they're genuine and it was a good performance. but intentionality and aesthetics aside, you have a larger discourse on the role race plays in the American mainstream, if certain aspects of it are borrowed or if they're made to be, as another user said, a novelty. if there's compersion on the part of those borrowed from and locked out of managerial and producer roles and you were able to obtain that prior to producing the skit then I think you'd be approaching this from like a best practices/due diligence perspective. if not, then I think the weird feeling I had was right
I mean, I could also be confusing Fallon and JT and such for ye olden days of white performers on sketch comedy mocking AAVE and whatever pretense of 'hood culture' they were able to conjure up from watching police procedurals
Is anyone being persecuted by this act?
I mean, I don't think cultural analyses of systemic racism (like the way power is distributed in society, how media narratives frame conversations on race in unhealthy ways, how these representations also limit the number of narratives available for minority youth, etc) are looking at active, overt oppression. the KKK still exist and people like Dylann Roof still exist, sure, but that's not what we're talking about here
posted by runt at 9:08 PM on September 10, 2015 [4 favorites]
I feel like the fact that almost all of the songs they cover are firmly entrenched in pop culture at large makes a difference. Hip hop is mainstream now, and has been for a while. The fact that they can do this and have audiences cheering and singing along proves the point.
These History of Rap bits are love letters to the genre, and the genre is far from underground or difficult to access nowadays. Plus, they're not taking away anything from the original artists. No one's going to be listening to a History of Rap medley instead of Notorious B.I.G. You listen to a History of Rap medley to get a burst of concentrated joy and nostalgia and affection for rap as a whole, and then you probably go listen to whatever your favorite song from the medley was.
posted by yasaman at 9:10 PM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
These History of Rap bits are love letters to the genre, and the genre is far from underground or difficult to access nowadays. Plus, they're not taking away anything from the original artists. No one's going to be listening to a History of Rap medley instead of Notorious B.I.G. You listen to a History of Rap medley to get a burst of concentrated joy and nostalgia and affection for rap as a whole, and then you probably go listen to whatever your favorite song from the medley was.
posted by yasaman at 9:10 PM on September 10, 2015 [3 favorites]
Even if they sucked, are folks suggesting that they shouldn't be doing hip-hop because they are white?
No.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:12 PM on September 10, 2015
No.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:12 PM on September 10, 2015
That's what gets me. It's a joke for people who think that hip-hop—one of the most popular and influential musical forms of the late 20th and early 21st century, mind—is kind of funny and peculiar.
Ehm. Have you ever heard Newcleus? The Humpty Dance? Pharcyde? Do you not find them funny and peculiar? Not everyone has the most cynical, mean-spirited attitude that you assign.
I grew up with hip-hop and while I'm not a big devotee to the genre, I do like some of it. If someone is interested in Cherokee chant, is it insulting that they treat it as peculiar and maybe funny in an alien way as they learn to understand and be exposed to it?
Is there not peculiar and funny songs in most every genre of music? Don't most cultural objects seem peculiar and possibly funny when we don't understand them? Is it our job to understand everything?
posted by tunewell at 9:16 PM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ehm. Have you ever heard Newcleus? The Humpty Dance? Pharcyde? Do you not find them funny and peculiar? Not everyone has the most cynical, mean-spirited attitude that you assign.
I grew up with hip-hop and while I'm not a big devotee to the genre, I do like some of it. If someone is interested in Cherokee chant, is it insulting that they treat it as peculiar and maybe funny in an alien way as they learn to understand and be exposed to it?
Is there not peculiar and funny songs in most every genre of music? Don't most cultural objects seem peculiar and possibly funny when we don't understand them? Is it our job to understand everything?
posted by tunewell at 9:16 PM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I mean, growing up as a minority and being treated as something peculiar and funny for your entire life is a bit of a burden, let me tell you that much, man
where am I really from? I'm from the fucking midwest, dude. every time a damn white person asks me that it makes me feel like I'm some weird lab creature
posted by runt at 9:20 PM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
where am I really from? I'm from the fucking midwest, dude. every time a damn white person asks me that it makes me feel like I'm some weird lab creature
posted by runt at 9:20 PM on September 10, 2015 [2 favorites]
I mean, growing up as a minority and being treated as something peculiar and funny for your entire life is a bit of a burden, let me tell you that much, man
I am hoping that my comment doesn't make you feel that your experience is being trivialized because that is not my intention. I'm trying to speak about how most people treat cultural genres.
posted by tunewell at 9:25 PM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I am hoping that my comment doesn't make you feel that your experience is being trivialized because that is not my intention. I'm trying to speak about how most people treat cultural genres.
posted by tunewell at 9:25 PM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
you have a larger discourse on the role race plays in the American mainstream, if certain aspects of it are borrowed or if they're made to be, as another user said, a novelty.
Hip hop is not a novelty and hasn't been for over two decades at least. I don't understand what about History of Rap medleys or the response to them suggests that it is. If you situate these medleys as part of a genre of medleys like that History of Dance video, or an acapella medley of, like, Daft Punk songs, or a Broadway medley, I think it becomes more clear that you're not supposed to be laughing at them. You're supposed be laughing with them and clapping your hands because they're fun like singalongs are fun. The point of these kinds of medleys is to be clever and fun and express love for the genre/thing they're medleying, not to make you laugh at an ~exotic~ genre or treat it as a novelty.
posted by yasaman at 9:38 PM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hip hop is not a novelty and hasn't been for over two decades at least. I don't understand what about History of Rap medleys or the response to them suggests that it is. If you situate these medleys as part of a genre of medleys like that History of Dance video, or an acapella medley of, like, Daft Punk songs, or a Broadway medley, I think it becomes more clear that you're not supposed to be laughing at them. You're supposed be laughing with them and clapping your hands because they're fun like singalongs are fun. The point of these kinds of medleys is to be clever and fun and express love for the genre/thing they're medleying, not to make you laugh at an ~exotic~ genre or treat it as a novelty.
posted by yasaman at 9:38 PM on September 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Even if they sucked, are folks suggesting that they shouldn't be doing hip-hop because they are white?"
No.
I think some people in this thread actually kind of are....or, at least, that they shouldn't be doing it on national TV. Which just makes me wonder what they'd think if Eminem were on the Tonight Show instead.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:25 AM on September 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
No.
I think some people in this thread actually kind of are....or, at least, that they shouldn't be doing it on national TV. Which just makes me wonder what they'd think if Eminem were on the Tonight Show instead.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:25 AM on September 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
It's a joke for people who think that hip-hop—one of the most popular and influential musical forms of the late 20th and early 21st century, mind—is kind of funny and peculiar.
...is one person's read on the structure of the "joke". Others read it as not even a joke, but a loving tribute to music. Music that was once perhaps considered "peculiar", but has long ago pushed its way so firmly into mainstream consciousness and awareness that Jimmy's super-white audience knows and loses their ever-loving-*minds* over almost every song because they know it and recognize it and love it. It's a modern-day "Stars on 45".
posted by ersatzkat at 4:11 AM on September 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
...is one person's read on the structure of the "joke". Others read it as not even a joke, but a loving tribute to music. Music that was once perhaps considered "peculiar", but has long ago pushed its way so firmly into mainstream consciousness and awareness that Jimmy's super-white audience knows and loses their ever-loving-*minds* over almost every song because they know it and recognize it and love it. It's a modern-day "Stars on 45".
posted by ersatzkat at 4:11 AM on September 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
I noticed that Black Thought added his voice to Fight the Power.
posted by jilloftrades at 4:24 AM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by jilloftrades at 4:24 AM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is why St Colbert has returned, to give us something other than the bland, earnest, simplistic, unaware. and utterly insipid Fallon.
So I know he's just finding his late night legs but Colbert is utterly awkward at interviewing, and his comedy bits are so much more "dad humor" than this. Furry hat of truth? C'mon.
posted by Brodiggitty at 7:10 AM on September 11, 2015
So I know he's just finding his late night legs but Colbert is utterly awkward at interviewing, and his comedy bits are so much more "dad humor" than this. Furry hat of truth? C'mon.
posted by Brodiggitty at 7:10 AM on September 11, 2015
Look, there's no evidence to "prove" this either way, but I'm a white person who's related to a lot of other white folk who still see hip hop as music for those "other" people, and I do think that this kind of act can cause cultural harm in some sense, regardless of the intent.
The predominately white audience (at home) is likely full of people who think it's a comedy sketch about how well those funny dudes can (including St. Timberlake, who is really talented, but come ON) can mimic that kind of not-really-music.
Huge swaths of white America still see hip hop, rap, house, whatever, as not really music, and it's hard for Fallon and Timberlake, whatever their intent, to know that they aren't encouraging an "othering" of this music (and "culture", for whatever that's worth) by ... I dunno, all the folks who voted for George W. and are now choosing between Trump and Cruz.
It may not be persecuting anyone in particular, but it may well be contributing to a culture of exclusion among whites who feel increasingly threatened by "them".
Different folks will of course interpret a thing differently, and again, I'm not arguing intent, here -- but the laughs aren't all laughs of "oh, I remember that one! it's so great!"
posted by allthinky at 7:28 AM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
The predominately white audience (at home) is likely full of people who think it's a comedy sketch about how well those funny dudes can (including St. Timberlake, who is really talented, but come ON) can mimic that kind of not-really-music.
Huge swaths of white America still see hip hop, rap, house, whatever, as not really music, and it's hard for Fallon and Timberlake, whatever their intent, to know that they aren't encouraging an "othering" of this music (and "culture", for whatever that's worth) by ... I dunno, all the folks who voted for George W. and are now choosing between Trump and Cruz.
It may not be persecuting anyone in particular, but it may well be contributing to a culture of exclusion among whites who feel increasingly threatened by "them".
Different folks will of course interpret a thing differently, and again, I'm not arguing intent, here -- but the laughs aren't all laughs of "oh, I remember that one! it's so great!"
posted by allthinky at 7:28 AM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
escape from the potato planet : I don't even believe that white people should never do hip-hop—just that, if they're gonna do it, they need to convince me that they respect the form, and aren't just imitating that cuh-razy hippity-hop music for yuks.
Which is exactly what they're doing here.
AND THEN: It's a video of a bland, unfunny late-night talk show host doing a dad-rap performance. There's no fun there for us to take out.
Escape, you seriously need to figure out whether you love it, hate it, or are just trolling
posted by IAmBroom at 7:34 AM on September 11, 2015
Which is exactly what they're doing here.
AND THEN: It's a video of a bland, unfunny late-night talk show host doing a dad-rap performance. There's no fun there for us to take out.
Escape, you seriously need to figure out whether you love it, hate it, or are just trolling
posted by IAmBroom at 7:34 AM on September 11, 2015
A musical tribute is not cultural appropriation in any bad sense, unless one is hell-bent on finding fault in others. It's a tribute. And this is clearly a tribute.
Black people don't own rap; to suggest they do is inherently racist. Rap grew out of black culture, was invented by black musicians, and remains a predominant category of contemporary black music. But it is much more than just "a black thing" now; it is a mature art form, and just as a multi-millionaire can sing a folk song about the struggles of poverty with feeling and sincerity (most of John Mellencamp's career), or a man can write convincingly about a woman's plight (a la John Prine/Angel from Montgomery), white people are allowed to do rap. Even in public. Even on TV. Even for money.
Otherwise, we're literally advocating racial segregation: don't you dare play that negro music in this house!
posted by IAmBroom at 7:35 AM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Black people don't own rap; to suggest they do is inherently racist. Rap grew out of black culture, was invented by black musicians, and remains a predominant category of contemporary black music. But it is much more than just "a black thing" now; it is a mature art form, and just as a multi-millionaire can sing a folk song about the struggles of poverty with feeling and sincerity (most of John Mellencamp's career), or a man can write convincingly about a woman's plight (a la John Prine/Angel from Montgomery), white people are allowed to do rap. Even in public. Even on TV. Even for money.
Otherwise, we're literally advocating racial segregation: don't you dare play that negro music in this house!
posted by IAmBroom at 7:35 AM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
I mostly enjoyed this video, but as a Canadian I found the cultural misappropriation of Snow's "Informer" to be SO VERY insensitive. We as Canadians have been suffering the cultural imperialism of the United States for too long, and it was only with the advent of Canadian Content laws in the 1970s that Canadian artists such as Anne Murray, Rush, and even Snow, have been able to shine and share their talent with Americans. Snow was our gift to you, Fallon. Show a little respect.
posted by Brodiggitty at 7:37 AM on September 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Brodiggitty at 7:37 AM on September 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
Also, what I forgot to say, but mostly wanted to: The huge up-side to white performers playing rap, respectfully, without ripping off the artists like Pat Boone and half of the 60's biggest rock groups all did, is that it diminishes the walls between our societies.
Pad thai and Szechuan eggplant make China more accessible to Westerners; less other. Movies about the French resistance, about the bravery of the hero of Hotel Rwanda, and even Slumdog Millionaire make those places less foreign and weird. They help us connect through our shared experiences.
That is actually a good thing.
posted by IAmBroom at 7:39 AM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Pad thai and Szechuan eggplant make China more accessible to Westerners; less other. Movies about the French resistance, about the bravery of the hero of Hotel Rwanda, and even Slumdog Millionaire make those places less foreign and weird. They help us connect through our shared experiences.
That is actually a good thing.
posted by IAmBroom at 7:39 AM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
My favorite white boy rap, which I think comments a bit on the dynamics mentioned in the thread, and something a little different...
posted by nequalsone at 7:51 AM on September 11, 2015
posted by nequalsone at 7:51 AM on September 11, 2015
Racial insensitivity aside, my problem with this bit is that it's just HACK. White people rapping? Since SNL's White Rap in 1985, white comics doing rap is just HACK HACK HACK HACK. The fact that they do it well and have good references is immaterial. They don't even make an effort to add an angle like The Lonely Island with Lazy Sunday. They just rap away!
Did I mention HACK?
posted by haricotvert at 7:55 AM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Did I mention HACK?
posted by haricotvert at 7:55 AM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
This happened in Johnny Carson's time slot. Who doesn't think Hip Hop is mainstream?
posted by LoveHam at 7:57 AM on September 11, 2015
posted by LoveHam at 7:57 AM on September 11, 2015
Pad thai and Szechuan eggplant make China more accessible to Westerners; less other. Movies about the French resistance, about the bravery of the hero of Hotel Rwanda, and even Slumdog Millionaire make those places less foreign and weird. They help us connect through our shared experiences.
Do they really, though?
Those examples also can't be used to handwave away the dynamics at work here, either. The US, may I point out, has a prolonged and resilient history of subjugating and otherwise crushing its Black citizens, and rap is a cultural product of that. A bunch of rich milquetoast white dudes performing a "love letter" to hip-hop isn't some goodwill mission to make Black art forms more palatable for white audiences, it is a gimmick which hinges on their whiteness in contrast to the original Black performers. It's funny because they're white, and funny because ?uestlove was in on it. But let us not pretend that this will make Black music less "foreign and weird." White people buy the majority of rap albums and concert tickets already. That has done nothing to curb the number of Black people dying in the street.
posted by Ashen at 8:05 AM on September 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
Do they really, though?
Those examples also can't be used to handwave away the dynamics at work here, either. The US, may I point out, has a prolonged and resilient history of subjugating and otherwise crushing its Black citizens, and rap is a cultural product of that. A bunch of rich milquetoast white dudes performing a "love letter" to hip-hop isn't some goodwill mission to make Black art forms more palatable for white audiences, it is a gimmick which hinges on their whiteness in contrast to the original Black performers. It's funny because they're white, and funny because ?uestlove was in on it. But let us not pretend that this will make Black music less "foreign and weird." White people buy the majority of rap albums and concert tickets already. That has done nothing to curb the number of Black people dying in the street.
posted by Ashen at 8:05 AM on September 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
Considering the minstrelsy history of the US music industry, the set of white expectations and projections making up the increasingly white demand side of hiphop, the industry's oft-criticized content-direction by white record labels' dubious preferences and prejudices I'm going to just say ... this is a complicated video, the interpretation of which rightly goes a bit beyond "it's a tribute! can't they just be fans?"
posted by ead at 8:34 AM on September 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by ead at 8:34 AM on September 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
Pad thai and Szechuan eggplant make China more accessible to Westerners
Pad thai is a Thai dish :/
When I worked at a Thai restaurant, I remember getting customers who'd come in and do nothing but make fun of the names, gawk at other people using chopsticks, and generally be big ol sheltered bigots
I'd like to think their time there was eye opening and culturally bridging but I doubt it
posted by runt at 9:00 AM on September 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
Pad thai is a Thai dish :/
When I worked at a Thai restaurant, I remember getting customers who'd come in and do nothing but make fun of the names, gawk at other people using chopsticks, and generally be big ol sheltered bigots
I'd like to think their time there was eye opening and culturally bridging but I doubt it
posted by runt at 9:00 AM on September 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
So I know he's just finding his late night legs but Colbert is utterly awkward at interviewing
Joe Biden might beg to differ.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:24 AM on September 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Joe Biden might beg to differ.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:24 AM on September 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
like, I'm imagining some future person digging through the net's archives watching this, knowing in the background that there's a national dialogue about systemic racism and reappropriation and privilege and all that and then watching this knowing that the demographic for these late night shows are like largely white and middle-class
I mean, this is just me with my feelings here. I'm open to like suggestions about the subtlety and nuance of this video that me, in my non-pop culture bubble, am missing
posted by runt at 4:15 PM on September 10, 2015 [20 favorites]