secondary egress
September 11, 2015 1:55 PM Subscribe
You can look up property records and confirm the person you are going to meet is in fact the owner of the building, but that only proves that the name on the property record and the name on the Craigslist email you received match. So then you start searching online for photographs, to make sure the person you meet matches the photo of the person he or she claims to be [...] You’re doing all of this in about 10 minutes, by the way, because you need to be the first person to the listing after it posts.The People You Have to Trust to Rent an Apartment
Well, that was frightening.
I have been doing a lot of long-distance apartment searching and realizing that at some point, if I get a job offer, I will probably be faxing over a contract to a big apartment management company for an apartment that I have never seen in person. Which is also frightening.
When I was renting an apartment in Bushwick, in 2009, the landlady told me, "If anyone comes from the housing department to inspect the place, don't let them in, because they're just trying to get people in trouble." My room didn't have an egress window. I probably shouldn't have rented that place.
posted by Jeanne at 2:03 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have been doing a lot of long-distance apartment searching and realizing that at some point, if I get a job offer, I will probably be faxing over a contract to a big apartment management company for an apartment that I have never seen in person. Which is also frightening.
When I was renting an apartment in Bushwick, in 2009, the landlady told me, "If anyone comes from the housing department to inspect the place, don't let them in, because they're just trying to get people in trouble." My room didn't have an egress window. I probably shouldn't have rented that place.
posted by Jeanne at 2:03 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
A thing I have often done when renting apartments is to knock on the door of another apartment, tell them I'm a prospective renter, and ask them a few questions - is the landlord responsive, are there noise problems, what are their largest complaints, etc. This Q&A session only lasts maybe 3 minutes and is a great way to spot any glaring red-flags.
There could be a companion article about the people you have to trust in order to rent OUT an apartment (I had a landlord that had 3 rules, 1 of which I forget, the other two were 'no needles', 'no bands/band practice', and sure enough one of the neighbors breaking rule #1, and there were needles strewn about the common space, ech!).
posted by el io at 2:03 PM on September 11, 2015 [7 favorites]
There could be a companion article about the people you have to trust in order to rent OUT an apartment (I had a landlord that had 3 rules, 1 of which I forget, the other two were 'no needles', 'no bands/band practice', and sure enough one of the neighbors breaking rule #1, and there were needles strewn about the common space, ech!).
posted by el io at 2:03 PM on September 11, 2015 [7 favorites]
True story: when I toured one of the other units in the building I'm currently living in I didn't see a secondary mode of egress and immediately called the landlord to be all wtf. (Tour was being given by the "property manager" who by all appearances was some random lady in a looney tunes t-shirt (and her nine year old daughter) who spoke all the Spanish the landlord did not, an important skill for renting in this neighborhood.) Anyway, called the landlord and his immediate response was "what!? of course there's a secondary mode of egress, I'm a retired firefighter, I know my egress, put [random lady] on the phone right now please" so I handed her the phone and like 2 seconds later random lady walked across the room and pulled back the shade to show an escape staircase modded onto an unassuming living room window.
posted by phunniemee at 2:06 PM on September 11, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 2:06 PM on September 11, 2015 [15 favorites]
For what segment of the population is apartment rental the angst-ridden experience described in this article?
I do all of the research listed in the article but for fun/personal benefit reasons, not angst reasons.
For instance, I've found it useful to look the property up on the county assessor's office website to see how much it was purchased for and when, to get an idea of what the owner's mortgage costs might be like, and use that to negotiate my rent down (or against rent increases at a later lease renewal) by suggesting numbers we'd both be happy with.
I also really like the renting process, though.
For other people, the idea of "if I can't make this happen I will be homeless" or "I am going into a building with an unknown person and could be assaulted or killed" is sufficiently angst-inducing, and maybe we shouldn't give them too hard a time.
posted by phunniemee at 2:11 PM on September 11, 2015 [10 favorites]
I do all of the research listed in the article but for fun/personal benefit reasons, not angst reasons.
For instance, I've found it useful to look the property up on the county assessor's office website to see how much it was purchased for and when, to get an idea of what the owner's mortgage costs might be like, and use that to negotiate my rent down (or against rent increases at a later lease renewal) by suggesting numbers we'd both be happy with.
I also really like the renting process, though.
For other people, the idea of "if I can't make this happen I will be homeless" or "I am going into a building with an unknown person and could be assaulted or killed" is sufficiently angst-inducing, and maybe we shouldn't give them too hard a time.
posted by phunniemee at 2:11 PM on September 11, 2015 [10 favorites]
The segment this applies to: you're trying to rent in a very hot rental market (Bay Area) with lots of competition for any reasonable place. That gives you the time pressure. Additionally, you're not made of money and the rental costs are a very significant of the cash you can play with, so the stakes are high and you can't afford to make mistakes or throw money at the problem.
posted by feckless at 2:13 PM on September 11, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by feckless at 2:13 PM on September 11, 2015 [20 favorites]
I prefer a secondary egret. Much more useful in a fire.
posted by clvrmnky at 2:25 PM on September 11, 2015 [17 favorites]
posted by clvrmnky at 2:25 PM on September 11, 2015 [17 favorites]
Also enough of the market is on Craigslist that you can't just use a realtor.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:27 PM on September 11, 2015
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:27 PM on September 11, 2015
Additionally, you're not made of money and the rental costs are a very significant of the cash you can play with, so the stakes are high and you can't afford to make mistakes or throw money at the problem.
And yet you still consider "only" $3,000 a month your absolute bottom emergency earnings.
LOL.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:27 PM on September 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
And yet you still consider "only" $3,000 a month your absolute bottom emergency earnings.
LOL.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:27 PM on September 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
If I had to do that before I could rent an apartment, I'd go live in a tent somewhere.
What and trust the tent company? And park rangers? And God?
posted by griphus at 2:28 PM on September 11, 2015 [15 favorites]
What and trust the tent company? And park rangers? And God?
posted by griphus at 2:28 PM on September 11, 2015 [15 favorites]
The segment this applies to: you're trying to rent in a very hot rental market (Bay Area) with lots of competition for any reasonable place. That gives you the time pressure. Additionally, you're not made of money and the rental costs are a very significant of the cash you can play with, so the stakes are high and you can't afford to make mistakes or throw money at the problem.
This. (And for Bay Area, substitute Seattle or New York or any other super-competitive rental market.) And people wonder why so many are eager to be homeowners even with insane housing prices, when "it's so much easier to rent!"
The last time I looked for an apartment, it was not nearly as fraught as this - partly because I was in a Bay Area market that wasn't very hot at the time. I found a place on Craigslist offered by Big Impersonal Real Estate Company, filled out an application, passed a credit check, signed a lease, and voila! I had an apartment, even though I had multiple pets. I called Well-Known Moving Company to move my stuff, and they did, without muss or fuss (albeit at considerable expense). Larger property management companies and moving companies are, IME, less likely to be scammy or blatantly rip people off, because they have a reputation to maintain. That goes double for the current era of Yelp reviews.
It's much more chancy, and harrowing, to have to rely on mom-and-pop rentals - which so many renters have to do because of money, or they have pets, or the rental market is so tight. "Two guys and a truck" movers are also cheaper than the pros - and people who rely on the small and unregulated have more chances at getting ripped off.
Yelp and Angie's List, at least, are helpful in finding honest and non-criminal movers.
I'm glad I'm not in the market for renting an apartment anymore! I don't miss the search process one little bit. It is harrowing knowing you are splashing out so much money - maybe/probably more than you can afford - on something so risky.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:28 PM on September 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
This. (And for Bay Area, substitute Seattle or New York or any other super-competitive rental market.) And people wonder why so many are eager to be homeowners even with insane housing prices, when "it's so much easier to rent!"
The last time I looked for an apartment, it was not nearly as fraught as this - partly because I was in a Bay Area market that wasn't very hot at the time. I found a place on Craigslist offered by Big Impersonal Real Estate Company, filled out an application, passed a credit check, signed a lease, and voila! I had an apartment, even though I had multiple pets. I called Well-Known Moving Company to move my stuff, and they did, without muss or fuss (albeit at considerable expense). Larger property management companies and moving companies are, IME, less likely to be scammy or blatantly rip people off, because they have a reputation to maintain. That goes double for the current era of Yelp reviews.
It's much more chancy, and harrowing, to have to rely on mom-and-pop rentals - which so many renters have to do because of money, or they have pets, or the rental market is so tight. "Two guys and a truck" movers are also cheaper than the pros - and people who rely on the small and unregulated have more chances at getting ripped off.
Yelp and Angie's List, at least, are helpful in finding honest and non-criminal movers.
I'm glad I'm not in the market for renting an apartment anymore! I don't miss the search process one little bit. It is harrowing knowing you are splashing out so much money - maybe/probably more than you can afford - on something so risky.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:28 PM on September 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
In MA some towns now organize meetings between online buyers and sellers (and renters) in the lobby of the local police station. It's been a long time since I've needed that kind of thing, but it seems a godsend.
posted by ocschwar at 2:33 PM on September 11, 2015
posted by ocschwar at 2:33 PM on September 11, 2015
I prefer a secondary egret. Much more useful in a fire.
The male of the species is also considerably less dangerous.
posted by pullayup at 2:34 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
The male of the species is also considerably less dangerous.
posted by pullayup at 2:34 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
I know at the times when I looked in NYC & in Chicago Craigslist didn't exist; I used a finding service or rental management company. There were fees but they were clear and upfront, we both had to pass each other's evaluation. - risk minimized.
Having not moved in 10 years the article makes me itchy.
posted by djseafood at 2:47 PM on September 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Having not moved in 10 years the article makes me itchy.
posted by djseafood at 2:47 PM on September 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
For what segment of the population is apartment rental the angst-ridden experience described in this article?
People living in New York or San Francisco. Only it can actually be about 500 times worse.
posted by zachlipton at 2:54 PM on September 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
People living in New York or San Francisco. Only it can actually be about 500 times worse.
posted by zachlipton at 2:54 PM on September 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
I also really like the renting process, though.
Damn, you are a freak.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 3:07 PM on September 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
Damn, you are a freak.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 3:07 PM on September 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
For what segment of the population is apartment rental the angst-ridden experience described in this article?
The article is not about renting apartments at all - it is an illustration of what it feels like to have a severe anxiety problem.
posted by Mars Saxman at 3:19 PM on September 11, 2015 [9 favorites]
The article is not about renting apartments at all - it is an illustration of what it feels like to have a severe anxiety problem.
posted by Mars Saxman at 3:19 PM on September 11, 2015 [9 favorites]
It would've been nice if the article specified that this is what it's like to rent in/near a huge metropolis.
I think some of the confusion in this thread is from people who have never fought their way through this gauntlet. Having lived in and out of these areas, I can say the difference is night and day.
(I'm signing a new lease on a nearby apt in my current neighborhood tomorrow morning, and the landlord insisted on me bringing CASH for first month's rent. I'm probably gonna get murdered! Weeeee!)
posted by quadbonus at 3:30 PM on September 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think some of the confusion in this thread is from people who have never fought their way through this gauntlet. Having lived in and out of these areas, I can say the difference is night and day.
(I'm signing a new lease on a nearby apt in my current neighborhood tomorrow morning, and the landlord insisted on me bringing CASH for first month's rent. I'm probably gonna get murdered! Weeeee!)
posted by quadbonus at 3:30 PM on September 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
basically the only way to find an apartment in the Bay Area if you're not ungodly rich is to cultivate a severe anxiety disorder and harness the nervous energy a severe anxiety disorder can give you. sure, you come off as crazy, but it's a type of crazy that's associated with the tech industry. as such, landlords actually find it endearing.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:34 PM on September 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:34 PM on September 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
"Only" 3k a month? After taxes, health insurance, and 401k that's MY take-home pay living in Chicago. And I'm doing just fine and dandy.
So screw you lady. Unless you're living in San Fran or NYC. Which you're not. You're living in Seattle. You pay $675 a month, according to an earlier article.
posted by Windigo at 3:35 PM on September 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
So screw you lady. Unless you're living in San Fran or NYC. Which you're not. You're living in Seattle. You pay $675 a month, according to an earlier article.
posted by Windigo at 3:35 PM on September 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
I recently re-entered the rental market and have dealt with Big Property Management as well as mom-and-pop owners. The former was great (relatively speaking), the latter not so much.
With the mom-and-pop place, I'm renting out part of a house in a great neighborhood, and recently received a call from a contractor regarding scheduling some repair work on the house. This is not cool.
So I called the landlord and politely informed him that he is not allowed to give out my personal information (it's actually illegal here), and that I was the Tenant, not the Owner's Representative. He lost his shit, and hung up on me.
He then probably remembered that I used to be an architect, called back to apologize, and would schedule the contractor since that's his responsibility. (I mean, I could do it at an inflated rate, and with a contractor of my choosing, but yeah, no.)
I'm not looking forward to notifying the owner about the code violations I've discovered w/r/t door locks, security bars, means of egress, and life safety. :/
But the neighborhood is really great!
posted by subliminable at 3:35 PM on September 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
With the mom-and-pop place, I'm renting out part of a house in a great neighborhood, and recently received a call from a contractor regarding scheduling some repair work on the house. This is not cool.
So I called the landlord and politely informed him that he is not allowed to give out my personal information (it's actually illegal here), and that I was the Tenant, not the Owner's Representative. He lost his shit, and hung up on me.
He then probably remembered that I used to be an architect, called back to apologize, and would schedule the contractor since that's his responsibility. (I mean, I could do it at an inflated rate, and with a contractor of my choosing, but yeah, no.)
I'm not looking forward to notifying the owner about the code violations I've discovered w/r/t door locks, security bars, means of egress, and life safety. :/
But the neighborhood is really great!
posted by subliminable at 3:35 PM on September 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
I got as far as: If the person matches the picture. If the person keeps the unit door open. You text people your location as well as the name of the person you are scheduled to meet and any contact information you have received.
I understand things are less safe, and more stressful if you're a woman. Seriously, i really do. But this person needs a fucking therapist not a blog. This article is ridiculous, and not at all representative of the rental market in seattle. Seriously, the ID theft thing? Therapy.
Like, i get that this article is about the stress of moving. Really, but a lot of these are completely unrealistic chicken little disaster what-ifs. I've been scammed by landlords, and none of it looked like that. It looked like never actually putting me on the lease, or refusing to replace the fridge 2 months in because "it's your fault it broke", or just stealing the deposit at the end. Or letting an abusive neighbor situation go way too far.
I dunno, something about this got my goat. This person seems annoying as fuck because these are all unrealistic internet scare story things that seem like something my mother would text me 100 times about when i was moving.
So screw you lady. Unless you're living in San Fran or NYC. Which you're not. You're living in Seattle.
3k a month is not a glamorous sum. That's 36k a year. You can earn that much cutting hair, and it's at the lower midrange of working as a bartender. I know retail managers who take home about that much.
It's also REALLY not a lot of money in Seattle anymore. Yes, it really is like SF here now. I was just staying in brooklyn and plenty of my friends i met up with were paying only a couple hundred bucks more at most and often about the same as i hear of people paying in seattle. There's cheapo places there, and cheapo places here.
You also have to factor in things like our regressive as fuck tax structure, the rapidly rising cost of living supplies like food, mediocre transit system that often makes you choose between driving for 30-45 minutes or busing for 90-100 unless your house and work are on the perfect axis.
50k is getting by and barely putting money in savings here, when you live in one of the cheapest apartments you can find in town and buy all your shit on craigslist.
posted by emptythought at 3:45 PM on September 11, 2015 [13 favorites]
I understand things are less safe, and more stressful if you're a woman. Seriously, i really do. But this person needs a fucking therapist not a blog. This article is ridiculous, and not at all representative of the rental market in seattle. Seriously, the ID theft thing? Therapy.
Like, i get that this article is about the stress of moving. Really, but a lot of these are completely unrealistic chicken little disaster what-ifs. I've been scammed by landlords, and none of it looked like that. It looked like never actually putting me on the lease, or refusing to replace the fridge 2 months in because "it's your fault it broke", or just stealing the deposit at the end. Or letting an abusive neighbor situation go way too far.
I dunno, something about this got my goat. This person seems annoying as fuck because these are all unrealistic internet scare story things that seem like something my mother would text me 100 times about when i was moving.
So screw you lady. Unless you're living in San Fran or NYC. Which you're not. You're living in Seattle.
3k a month is not a glamorous sum. That's 36k a year. You can earn that much cutting hair, and it's at the lower midrange of working as a bartender. I know retail managers who take home about that much.
It's also REALLY not a lot of money in Seattle anymore. Yes, it really is like SF here now. I was just staying in brooklyn and plenty of my friends i met up with were paying only a couple hundred bucks more at most and often about the same as i hear of people paying in seattle. There's cheapo places there, and cheapo places here.
You also have to factor in things like our regressive as fuck tax structure, the rapidly rising cost of living supplies like food, mediocre transit system that often makes you choose between driving for 30-45 minutes or busing for 90-100 unless your house and work are on the perfect axis.
50k is getting by and barely putting money in savings here, when you live in one of the cheapest apartments you can find in town and buy all your shit on craigslist.
posted by emptythought at 3:45 PM on September 11, 2015 [13 favorites]
Well, here's the thing: regardless of whether or not you think the author has a severe anxiety disorder, you still have to trust all the people listed in that article. It's just that for some people, that trust comes easy and for others, not so much. And usually all those people are worthy of your trust and everything goes smoothly and maybe you don't even give it a second thought (well sure the current tenants probably aren't lying to me, what do they have to gain anyways), but in big cities there are enough horror stories about the times some of those people weren't worthy. And often this happens to someone you know, not just some rando who posted to an internet comment thread somewhere. Sometimes you're the person that couldn't be trusted, like that one time you didn't tell the next tenant taking over your apartment that it used to have cockroaches but it's probably okay because you haven't seen any in a while but really who knows, not until after they'd seen the place with the landlord present (you can't narc on the landlord while he's there!) and then signed the lease. And in many of these cases things still go okay, but sometimes they go horribly wrong, and you're pretty sure this instance is not one that will go horribly wrong but you can't rule it out completely.
For some people, this is paralyzing. For others, it's just how life works and whatever it'll be fine. But you still have to trust all those people either way, just like you have to trust your bus driver won't run a red light and get broadsided by a tractor-trailer on your way to work on Monday. I don't think that necessarily means it has to be an "angst-ridden experience" and I didn't get that vibe from the article either.
posted by chrominance at 3:45 PM on September 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
For some people, this is paralyzing. For others, it's just how life works and whatever it'll be fine. But you still have to trust all those people either way, just like you have to trust your bus driver won't run a red light and get broadsided by a tractor-trailer on your way to work on Monday. I don't think that necessarily means it has to be an "angst-ridden experience" and I didn't get that vibe from the article either.
posted by chrominance at 3:45 PM on September 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
So... there have a been a bunch of stories about this happening in Toronto lately.
It's very convincing - you show up, there's a "landlord", they give you a tour, you show id, sign very official papers and leave a deposit cheque. And the fake landlord does it a dozen more times in a couple days before they skip town.
One person rented a room through Airbnb and then ran this scam for a couple days.
I pretty glad I'm not looking to rent because, geez, yikes.
So this article is hardly about having an anxiety disorder. It's about how easy it is to get scammed.
posted by GuyZero at 3:46 PM on September 11, 2015 [7 favorites]
It's very convincing - you show up, there's a "landlord", they give you a tour, you show id, sign very official papers and leave a deposit cheque. And the fake landlord does it a dozen more times in a couple days before they skip town.
One person rented a room through Airbnb and then ran this scam for a couple days.
I pretty glad I'm not looking to rent because, geez, yikes.
So this article is hardly about having an anxiety disorder. It's about how easy it is to get scammed.
posted by GuyZero at 3:46 PM on September 11, 2015 [7 favorites]
WHERE IS THE PART WHERE YOU MUST SIGN EACH OTHERS' PGP KEYS?
posted by indubitable at 3:51 PM on September 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by indubitable at 3:51 PM on September 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
CNN's cost of living calculator tells me 15k in my town is analogous to 21k in Seattle. Even accounting for cost of living, 3k per month in Seattle is double what I take home and I would describe myself as getting by.
posted by wrabbit at 4:03 PM on September 11, 2015
posted by wrabbit at 4:03 PM on September 11, 2015
You don't have to trust anywhere along the chain. You should be careful but if things go wrong be prepared for conflict whether it's a gentle conversation with the property manager or an all out drama in the courts. We don't live in a world without conflict but we can hope that knowing how to resolve problems brings us closer to the world we want.
posted by rdr at 4:15 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by rdr at 4:15 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
I prefer a secondary egret. Much more useful in a fire.
One of my favourite cartoons ever, from the long-defunct Yorker magazine: stone-faced guy standing at a lectern, looking downcast; on each shoulder there are two or three birds while another three or four circle his head. He speaks: "I come to you tonight with a heavy heart and many, many egrets."
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:21 PM on September 11, 2015 [15 favorites]
One of my favourite cartoons ever, from the long-defunct Yorker magazine: stone-faced guy standing at a lectern, looking downcast; on each shoulder there are two or three birds while another three or four circle his head. He speaks: "I come to you tonight with a heavy heart and many, many egrets."
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:21 PM on September 11, 2015 [15 favorites]
I have not been scammed in decades of renting in New York City. For each scam and crime listed here, though, I know of someone who has run into it.
A lot of it stems from really crappy law enforcement - they simply won't listen to you if you report most of these crimes to them, and if they take the report, it will go nowhere. The risk is very small for the scammers, and the rewards very great.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 4:22 PM on September 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
A lot of it stems from really crappy law enforcement - they simply won't listen to you if you report most of these crimes to them, and if they take the report, it will go nowhere. The risk is very small for the scammers, and the rewards very great.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 4:22 PM on September 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
Out of necessity in May I rented a cheap apartment sight-unseen in Cabbagetown, Toronto with no stress or drama and it's worked out just fine. I do remember seeing a couple of places on Padmapper that did seem too good to be true and involving out of town rentors (and I see now were probably scams) but they were the kind of generic high rise units I was trying to avoid anyway.
posted by Flashman at 4:23 PM on September 11, 2015
posted by Flashman at 4:23 PM on September 11, 2015
Yikes, I've literally put less thought and effort into buying houses than this. I would end up in a box down by the rivers if I had to go through this to find a place to live.
posted by octothorpe at 4:26 PM on September 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 4:26 PM on September 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
My last apartment, before buying a house, took me back to my hometown. We took over the lease from a woman I went to high school with, a woman who happened to be the stepdaughter of my then boss. As a teenager, I had visited said apartment many times, as my high school boyfriend's cousins rented it. These are the times I love living in a small town. It was a duplex with a swingset and tree house. And gorgeous hardwoods. Good times.
posted by Ruki at 4:27 PM on September 11, 2015
posted by Ruki at 4:27 PM on September 11, 2015
I have thought about this on a more global scale. More related to driving. After watching Annie Hall one night. You trust the driver coming the other way on that two lane road not to suddenly veer into you, you trust when you go through a green light that some bozo is not going to run their red, you trust when you grab something off the top shelf in a grocery that they have properly secured their shelving, you trust the guy at the valet parking to either not use your car or bring it back at all. The list of things you have to trust or assume on a daily basis is so extraordinary that it is amazing we all get through the day.
In certain transactions such as the one described here, the level of trust is sky high. At some point you have to become comfortable assessing risk, the probability of that risk and then either taking it and living with it or not. I have a friend that for some reason I am sure he told me but I forgot had a deep mistrust of vending machines. He refused to give them his 75 cents before he got his M&Ms. He refused to use them at all. Here was a guy making over $100,000 that would not take the low risk that he was going to get ripped off for less than a buck, yet he had no problem giving his credit card over the phone in advance to get $100 worth of chinese food delivered.
I on the other hand do not trust ATMs. I once was given an extra $40, tried to turn it in and couldn't. I figure if they will screw it up in my favor so casually, against me is a given. I use the teller or get cash back at a grocery store. I only deposit at the teller.
Trust is a funny thing shaped by past experience.
posted by AugustWest at 4:32 PM on September 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
In certain transactions such as the one described here, the level of trust is sky high. At some point you have to become comfortable assessing risk, the probability of that risk and then either taking it and living with it or not. I have a friend that for some reason I am sure he told me but I forgot had a deep mistrust of vending machines. He refused to give them his 75 cents before he got his M&Ms. He refused to use them at all. Here was a guy making over $100,000 that would not take the low risk that he was going to get ripped off for less than a buck, yet he had no problem giving his credit card over the phone in advance to get $100 worth of chinese food delivered.
I on the other hand do not trust ATMs. I once was given an extra $40, tried to turn it in and couldn't. I figure if they will screw it up in my favor so casually, against me is a given. I use the teller or get cash back at a grocery store. I only deposit at the teller.
Trust is a funny thing shaped by past experience.
posted by AugustWest at 4:32 PM on September 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
I had a run in with the guy in GuyZero's link last year. Same passport photo, except he went by 'Christopher David Wimmer' and claimed to be using Airbnb. I don't think he understood how the site works because he claimed that he had made multiple transactions with them but he never provided a link to his profile despite my repeated requests. He said that he was offering the apartment for cheap because he wasn't looking to make a profit, but after my third request to show me something that indicated he had actually bothered to open an account on the site, he changed his story to needing the money to feed his family. This was despite the fact that he lived in one of the most expensive areas of Vancouver (Olympic Village).
I would have fucked with him some more, but I really didn't have the energy, so I reported him to the Canadian Anti Fraud Centre.
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 4:38 PM on September 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
I would have fucked with him some more, but I really didn't have the energy, so I reported him to the Canadian Anti Fraud Centre.
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 4:38 PM on September 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
I have been doing a lot of long-distance apartment searching and realizing that at some point, if I get a job offer, I will probably be faxing over a contract to a big apartment management company for an apartment that I have never seen in person. Which is also frightening.
You can often rent month-to-month so you could have a month to find a more permanent place or just move there with not much stuff and stay in a hotel for a few days/week while you look for a place and your pod makes its way across the country.
That assumes a lot of options are open to you but it's not that strange. Well, unless you're in NYC because apparently apartment hunting humans become by necessity circling vultures picking over the bones of a shoebox studio.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 4:55 PM on September 11, 2015
You can often rent month-to-month so you could have a month to find a more permanent place or just move there with not much stuff and stay in a hotel for a few days/week while you look for a place and your pod makes its way across the country.
That assumes a lot of options are open to you but it's not that strange. Well, unless you're in NYC because apparently apartment hunting humans become by necessity circling vultures picking over the bones of a shoebox studio.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 4:55 PM on September 11, 2015
The most cringeworthy-in-retrospect conversation I've had in recent memory:
Me: so, [potential landlord] was a little weird, huh?
Boyfriend: heh, yeah, a little off
Me: but he just seemed a little incompetent, not malicious or anything. And we're only going to rent through the summer anyway. I mean how bad could it be?
(it was bad)
posted by geegollygosh at 5:00 PM on September 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Me: so, [potential landlord] was a little weird, huh?
Boyfriend: heh, yeah, a little off
Me: but he just seemed a little incompetent, not malicious or anything. And we're only going to rent through the summer anyway. I mean how bad could it be?
(it was bad)
posted by geegollygosh at 5:00 PM on September 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
I have been doing a lot of long-distance apartment searching and realizing that at some point, if I get a job offer, I will probably be faxing over a contract to a big apartment management company for an apartment that I have never seen in person. Which is also frightening.
Everyone i've ever known or talked to who went through anything like this had someone at the company, usually the hiring manager or whatever, go "ok now you want to talk to Taylor and Extreme Rentals INC, here's their number" and they got a sort of endorsed handoff to the apartment-locator-person who probably already had a couple in their back pocket. One friend who flew around for an interview was shown an apartment they just had warmed up and ready to go for whoever they hired(which was both reasonably nice in a decent building and location, and totally within their budget with the salary being offered).
That, or they just rented an airbnb/craigslist sublet for a month and spent all their free time looking at places in person. Both seem to work ok.
I only know distant friends-of-friends who've done the rent sight unseen thing. I'd never, ever do that. I think that's where my risk tolerance line is.
Me: but he just seemed a little incompetent, not malicious or anything. And we're only going to rent through the summer anyway. I mean how bad could it be?
Hahahaha oh god. The worst rental experience i had started with exactly this. All my current roommates trying to psych me up with exactly this when the landlord/process was sketchy and the house was iffy, but we had been searching for months and had only found garbage or places that wouldn't rent to us because we had five people and a dog, and no one besides me was willing to up the budget by even $100/head.
It was very, very, extremely bad. To the point that several people up and left in the middle of the day about half way in without even bothering to try and get their names off the lease.
posted by emptythought at 5:06 PM on September 11, 2015
Everyone i've ever known or talked to who went through anything like this had someone at the company, usually the hiring manager or whatever, go "ok now you want to talk to Taylor and Extreme Rentals INC, here's their number" and they got a sort of endorsed handoff to the apartment-locator-person who probably already had a couple in their back pocket. One friend who flew around for an interview was shown an apartment they just had warmed up and ready to go for whoever they hired(which was both reasonably nice in a decent building and location, and totally within their budget with the salary being offered).
That, or they just rented an airbnb/craigslist sublet for a month and spent all their free time looking at places in person. Both seem to work ok.
I only know distant friends-of-friends who've done the rent sight unseen thing. I'd never, ever do that. I think that's where my risk tolerance line is.
Me: but he just seemed a little incompetent, not malicious or anything. And we're only going to rent through the summer anyway. I mean how bad could it be?
Hahahaha oh god. The worst rental experience i had started with exactly this. All my current roommates trying to psych me up with exactly this when the landlord/process was sketchy and the house was iffy, but we had been searching for months and had only found garbage or places that wouldn't rent to us because we had five people and a dog, and no one besides me was willing to up the budget by even $100/head.
It was very, very, extremely bad. To the point that several people up and left in the middle of the day about half way in without even bothering to try and get their names off the lease.
posted by emptythought at 5:06 PM on September 11, 2015
I also rented an apartment sight unseen in a city where I'd gone to college, but hadn't been back to in a decade or more. I rented I what had once been a genteel old neighborhood, but what had become a crime ridden cesspool. I had to break the lease when I got mugged at gunpoint in the hall coming home from work one day.
Seriously, don't do that unless you really know the area, or you have someone who can check it out for you. Your HR people will have recommendations if they're recruiting out of their local talent pool.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:16 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Seriously, don't do that unless you really know the area, or you have someone who can check it out for you. Your HR people will have recommendations if they're recruiting out of their local talent pool.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:16 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Not only that, you have to trust your sinoatrial node to periodically stimulate your cardiac muscle. And all those cells to keep replicating, and proteins to keep binding to each other.
I really feel for this person if they ever have the fortune to actually buy a property, and to sit in a little room and sign a bunch of papers they don't quite understand and write checks to a bunch of people they'll never see again, part of it for "title insurance" which insures against the possibility that everything you've ever known about the property is a complete fabrication.
And then two months later, a letter arrives from your bank saying they've sold your mortgage already.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:18 PM on September 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
I really feel for this person if they ever have the fortune to actually buy a property, and to sit in a little room and sign a bunch of papers they don't quite understand and write checks to a bunch of people they'll never see again, part of it for "title insurance" which insures against the possibility that everything you've ever known about the property is a complete fabrication.
And then two months later, a letter arrives from your bank saying they've sold your mortgage already.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:18 PM on September 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
So I happen to be friends with the author. For those saying "get a therapist" you've missed the point. Nicole is thorough. She likes listing out and thinking about all the things that could possibly be involved in something. Yes in reality most of these things aren't likely risks but they are things. So this article is about how even normal activities involve a whole bunch of implicit chains of relationships we don't think about. Also some of those are surprisingly common risks in a hot market where you're trying to find a cheap place.
And yes the market around here is really high. It's hard to find something that is in good shape, in a core, transit accessible neighborhood at all, they're expensive and they move fast. And that $3000 is fwiw almost certainly before taxes as she's a freelancer and pays payroll taxes, savings, insurance etc. out of that.
In short, I find the tone and content of a lot of the comments here pretty upsetting since it's clear most of them didn't read to the end of look at anything else by the author to understand her style before jumping to conclusions.
posted by R343L at 5:22 PM on September 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
And yes the market around here is really high. It's hard to find something that is in good shape, in a core, transit accessible neighborhood at all, they're expensive and they move fast. And that $3000 is fwiw almost certainly before taxes as she's a freelancer and pays payroll taxes, savings, insurance etc. out of that.
In short, I find the tone and content of a lot of the comments here pretty upsetting since it's clear most of them didn't read to the end of look at anything else by the author to understand her style before jumping to conclusions.
posted by R343L at 5:22 PM on September 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
3k a month is not a glamorous sum. That's 36k a year. You can earn that much cutting hair, and it's at the lower midrange of working as a bartender. I know retail managers who take home about that much.
That's take-home pay (39k) after many other things get taken out - taxes, insurance, 401k, my bus/train pass. I get paid a lot more than that - more like 55k a year. Yeah, not glamorous, but totally solid. So if she is taking home 3k a month, she is probably making over 50k as well.
posted by Windigo at 5:37 PM on September 11, 2015
That's take-home pay (39k) after many other things get taken out - taxes, insurance, 401k, my bus/train pass. I get paid a lot more than that - more like 55k a year. Yeah, not glamorous, but totally solid. So if she is taking home 3k a month, she is probably making over 50k as well.
posted by Windigo at 5:37 PM on September 11, 2015
....and my point was, unless you're living in NYC or San Fran, I can't imagine making over 50k a year and freaking out, unless there's other circumstances to take into account.
posted by Windigo at 5:41 PM on September 11, 2015
posted by Windigo at 5:41 PM on September 11, 2015
The male of the species is also considerably less dangerous.
I prefer Kipling myself. "The female of the species is more deadly than the male." Do you like Kipling, Miss Scarlet?
posted by bowmaniac at 5:48 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
I prefer Kipling myself. "The female of the species is more deadly than the male." Do you like Kipling, Miss Scarlet?
posted by bowmaniac at 5:48 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Personally, I hope this article is just the first in a series. I'm particularly looking forward to:
The People You Have to Trust to Walk Down the Street
The People You Have to Trust to Drive on the Highway
The People You Have to Trust to Keep Your Money In A Bank
The People You Have to Trust to Put Your Money in the Stock Market
The People You Have to Trust to Eat A Ham Sandwich
The People You Have to Trust to Figure Out What That Weird Rash Is and How You Got It
The People You Have to Trust to Investigate the X-Files (ok, this one might need some word-count padding. The rest should be plenty long though!)
posted by mstokes650 at 5:55 PM on September 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
The People You Have to Trust to Walk Down the Street
The People You Have to Trust to Drive on the Highway
The People You Have to Trust to Keep Your Money In A Bank
The People You Have to Trust to Put Your Money in the Stock Market
The People You Have to Trust to Eat A Ham Sandwich
The People You Have to Trust to Figure Out What That Weird Rash Is and How You Got It
The People You Have to Trust to Investigate the X-Files (ok, this one might need some word-count padding. The rest should be plenty long though!)
posted by mstokes650 at 5:55 PM on September 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
My daughter has had to try to rent a living space in NYC twice the last two years...
It's insane what is required to even share an apartment with even 2 or three other people.
posted by Windopaene at 6:09 PM on September 11, 2015
It's insane what is required to even share an apartment with even 2 or three other people.
posted by Windopaene at 6:09 PM on September 11, 2015
I did read to the end and yeah, this writer comes across as pretty neurotic.
I started commenting and up popped mstokes650 with exactly what I wanted to say: Everything takes trust. When you plan to fly to another state, you have to trust that...
- Your ticket transaction went through and your flight isn't cancelled
- The drivers on the freeway on the way to the airport won't swerve across the lane and smash into you
- The airport parking trolley doesn't run you over like Mr. Bill
- The chicken wrap you order in the terminal isn't ridden with salmonella
- The passenger sitting next to you isn't Patient Zero of the next big superbug
- The flight crew is rested and sober and, yes, apparently not suicidal
That said, I spent a year and a half freelancing until I couldn't handle the stress of the uncertainty any longer. I can move every year (13 places in 15 years!) with zero issues but daily story pitching would have me biting my nails to the quick.
posted by mochapickle at 6:20 PM on September 11, 2015
I started commenting and up popped mstokes650 with exactly what I wanted to say: Everything takes trust. When you plan to fly to another state, you have to trust that...
- Your ticket transaction went through and your flight isn't cancelled
- The drivers on the freeway on the way to the airport won't swerve across the lane and smash into you
- The airport parking trolley doesn't run you over like Mr. Bill
- The chicken wrap you order in the terminal isn't ridden with salmonella
- The passenger sitting next to you isn't Patient Zero of the next big superbug
- The flight crew is rested and sober and, yes, apparently not suicidal
That said, I spent a year and a half freelancing until I couldn't handle the stress of the uncertainty any longer. I can move every year (13 places in 15 years!) with zero issues but daily story pitching would have me biting my nails to the quick.
posted by mochapickle at 6:20 PM on September 11, 2015
This sounds pretty close to trying to get a reasonably-priced apartment in my city, which is not NYC or SF or Seattle. You show up, and you have 10 minutes to SAY YES TO THE APARTMENT or you're out. And that's assuming you won the war to be the first to email the landlord when the listing popped up on Craigslist.
There are also complexes here which are much more lenient and have vacancies, but they're several hundred more a month, sooooooo... yeah. In general, if complexes in the Boston metro area are willing to hold an apartment for you without a deposit, even for a day or two, it's because they're priced above market for what they're offering.
I say this not based only on my experiences, but on those of my coworkers as well. One of whom is currently trying to find an apartment that will allow a dog, which is an even more special level of horror.
posted by pie ninja at 6:22 PM on September 11, 2015
There are also complexes here which are much more lenient and have vacancies, but they're several hundred more a month, sooooooo... yeah. In general, if complexes in the Boston metro area are willing to hold an apartment for you without a deposit, even for a day or two, it's because they're priced above market for what they're offering.
I say this not based only on my experiences, but on those of my coworkers as well. One of whom is currently trying to find an apartment that will allow a dog, which is an even more special level of horror.
posted by pie ninja at 6:22 PM on September 11, 2015
You're living in Seattle. You pay $675 a month, according to an earlier article.
Average rent in Seattle for a 1-bedroom apartment is $1500.
posted by KathrynT at 6:35 PM on September 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
Average rent in Seattle for a 1-bedroom apartment is $1500.
posted by KathrynT at 6:35 PM on September 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
R343L, I'll revise my statement, then: "while the article is superficially about renting apartments, it also clearly illustrates what it feels like to have a severe anxiety problem."
I say this not because I know or pretend to know anything about the author, but because this is what the inside of my head used to sound like before therapy and medication got me sorted out, and "anxiety" is the label my doctor put on that experience.
I hope you're right, and your friend created this depiction of anxiety by accident during the course of some calm, curious journalistic exercise. I'm still going to send people the link whenever I want to show them what living with anxiety is like.
posted by Mars Saxman at 6:51 PM on September 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
I say this not because I know or pretend to know anything about the author, but because this is what the inside of my head used to sound like before therapy and medication got me sorted out, and "anxiety" is the label my doctor put on that experience.
I hope you're right, and your friend created this depiction of anxiety by accident during the course of some calm, curious journalistic exercise. I'm still going to send people the link whenever I want to show them what living with anxiety is like.
posted by Mars Saxman at 6:51 PM on September 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
unless you're living in NYC or San Fran
Calling it "San Fran" vacates your claim to expert knowledge, sorry
posted by listen, lady at 7:09 PM on September 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
Calling it "San Fran" vacates your claim to expert knowledge, sorry
posted by listen, lady at 7:09 PM on September 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
Everyone I know in an expensive city is like, "I got an amazing deal through my friend's cousin's mom's doctor's aunt and this whole apartment is only $500 a month." Which makes me wonder if the housing situation is really as bad as reported, and worry about people who don't have those kinds of deep support networks.
posted by miyabo at 7:24 PM on September 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by miyabo at 7:24 PM on September 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Seriously though, in the area i live in NYC median rental price for a 2 bedroom (people have kids, it's a thing) is about 3 grand a month.
For unscrupulous people this represents a huge target. Between first months rent, deposit, and agents fees it's easy to clear 9k off a single mark. You'd be insane not to be anxious about being had. Nothing in the article seemed overanxious or out of place.
If you live somewhere where renting a place to yourself costs a thousand dollars a month and there's not a cutthroat market, I salute you. I was there just a year ago, and I miss some of it. It's a completely different game though in in a bigass city and to suggest that someone needs therapy for voicing their concerns is way out of line.
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 8:00 PM on September 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
For unscrupulous people this represents a huge target. Between first months rent, deposit, and agents fees it's easy to clear 9k off a single mark. You'd be insane not to be anxious about being had. Nothing in the article seemed overanxious or out of place.
If you live somewhere where renting a place to yourself costs a thousand dollars a month and there's not a cutthroat market, I salute you. I was there just a year ago, and I miss some of it. It's a completely different game though in in a bigass city and to suggest that someone needs therapy for voicing their concerns is way out of line.
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 8:00 PM on September 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
I rather thought this was an uplifting and funny article! There are so many potential points of failure in something like renting an apartment, but generally things work out. People usually aren't scammers or giant assholes. Instead of making me anxious, this article reminded me that worrying is silly - there are 1000 ways anything can go wrong, and usually nothing does.
posted by congen at 8:35 PM on September 11, 2015
posted by congen at 8:35 PM on September 11, 2015
In short, I find the tone and content of a lot of the comments here pretty upsetting since it's clear most of them didn't read to the end of look at anything else by the author to understand her style before jumping to conclusions.
When you find yourself writing this to the general audience, and not just to one person, you have to wonder if everyone is misinterpreting it or the piece is just bad at communicating the intended message.
Maybe I was a little harsh, and I appologize for crapping on your friend, but at least to me it did come across the way others interpreted it as well.
posted by emptythought at 10:03 PM on September 11, 2015
When you find yourself writing this to the general audience, and not just to one person, you have to wonder if everyone is misinterpreting it or the piece is just bad at communicating the intended message.
Maybe I was a little harsh, and I appologize for crapping on your friend, but at least to me it did come across the way others interpreted it as well.
posted by emptythought at 10:03 PM on September 11, 2015
I can tell you from both direct and second hand experience that two different scams are common in Portland, OR right now.
1) People list properties they don't own and are not actually for rent. They'll take your first and last and disappear into thin air.
2) People show properties they have no intention of renting, but will take your application fee anyway.
Local authorities aren't particularly interested in pursuing either situation.
If you're lucky you get someone who is actually renting a legitimate apartment, and you'll pay at least 50% over last year's going rates, if not 100%.
posted by elwoodwiles at 11:05 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
1) People list properties they don't own and are not actually for rent. They'll take your first and last and disappear into thin air.
2) People show properties they have no intention of renting, but will take your application fee anyway.
Local authorities aren't particularly interested in pursuing either situation.
If you're lucky you get someone who is actually renting a legitimate apartment, and you'll pay at least 50% over last year's going rates, if not 100%.
posted by elwoodwiles at 11:05 PM on September 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
When you book a flight, buy a car, etc, you can pay by credit card. Any probs are addressed with charge reversals etc.
Renting a flat, in a competivie market like SF or NYC, you hand over a check. If its a scam, they abscond with the money the police will tell you its a "property crime" as opposed to violent crime. They don't get out of bed for a property crime under 50k at least not in in LA.
So you forked over thousands for first and last month's rent etc, cashed your check and split.
Its too late to stop payment on your check and the trail goes cold fast.
It really is a low risk scam and can haul in 10-20k in a day. And you have essentially, no (useful) paper trail, no recourse. Your pocket was just picked and all you can do is scratch your head and rub your sore ass where it just got kicked.
Thats a real loophole in the rental process, and much like ID theft, ultimately nobody cares. Thats a very real concern, not a neurotic anxiety to be dismissed.
posted by BentPenguin at 12:30 AM on September 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
Renting a flat, in a competivie market like SF or NYC, you hand over a check. If its a scam, they abscond with the money the police will tell you its a "property crime" as opposed to violent crime. They don't get out of bed for a property crime under 50k at least not in in LA.
So you forked over thousands for first and last month's rent etc, cashed your check and split.
Its too late to stop payment on your check and the trail goes cold fast.
It really is a low risk scam and can haul in 10-20k in a day. And you have essentially, no (useful) paper trail, no recourse. Your pocket was just picked and all you can do is scratch your head and rub your sore ass where it just got kicked.
Thats a real loophole in the rental process, and much like ID theft, ultimately nobody cares. Thats a very real concern, not a neurotic anxiety to be dismissed.
posted by BentPenguin at 12:30 AM on September 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
I on the other hand do not trust ATMs. I once was given an extra $40, tried to turn it in and couldn't. I figure if they will screw it up in my favor so casually, against me is a given. I use the teller or get cash back at a grocery store. I only deposit at the teller.
Same. Bank, credit card company (I don't do that anymore), no one wanted it back and it never showed up debited against me.
posted by tilde at 6:36 AM on September 12, 2015
Same. Bank, credit card company (I don't do that anymore), no one wanted it back and it never showed up debited against me.
posted by tilde at 6:36 AM on September 12, 2015
If you wish to rent acceptable living quarters you must first invent the universe.
posted by not applicable at 8:39 AM on September 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by not applicable at 8:39 AM on September 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
It can be funny when the scammers don't do the research about the area they are trying to scam in, though.
(About a month ago I saw three listings on a real estate site for houses apparently for rent, in Rockville and Bethesda, Montgomery County, MD. That's Montgomery “second richest county in the country" County, and "on the border with NW DC" Bethesda. Two or three bedroom houses, they were offered as rentals for around $1000/month. (And one also had a sale option. For $75K.)
My first reaction was "do the walls ooze blood? Is there a verified radioactive material dump site under the foundation? Have there been activities from the Great Old Ones observed on the property?" Then less naïve friends explained the first/last/deposit scam to me.
I reported them to the real estate site. To their credit, the listings were gone within two hours.)
posted by seyirci at 11:52 AM on September 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
(About a month ago I saw three listings on a real estate site for houses apparently for rent, in Rockville and Bethesda, Montgomery County, MD. That's Montgomery “second richest county in the country" County, and "on the border with NW DC" Bethesda. Two or three bedroom houses, they were offered as rentals for around $1000/month. (And one also had a sale option. For $75K.)
My first reaction was "do the walls ooze blood? Is there a verified radioactive material dump site under the foundation? Have there been activities from the Great Old Ones observed on the property?" Then less naïve friends explained the first/last/deposit scam to me.
I reported them to the real estate site. To their credit, the listings were gone within two hours.)
posted by seyirci at 11:52 AM on September 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
3,000 a month pre-tax is not an easy amount of money to live on in Seattle. But it does look like she's been doing a lot better in the last couple months and may make close to double that.
posted by miyabo at 8:48 PM on September 12, 2015
posted by miyabo at 8:48 PM on September 12, 2015
I am really glad that this article has not matched any of my apartment rental experiences. I mean, I have read horror stories in a lot of discussions, but...I dunno. I live in Houston, which AFAIK is the 4th largest city in the US (does that count as sufficiently "big city"?) and I never had a problem.
That being said, I will say that I probably have a considerable level of socioeconomic privilege -- I always went through Big Apartment Management Companies where there were several complexes, good reviews on apartmentratings.com (or at least, consistency re: what the problem points were, so I could say, "Am I OK with x as an issue?") I would not even be able to begin to take the precautions the author takes...I would probably get scammed in so many ways.
posted by subversiveasset at 9:30 PM on September 12, 2015
That being said, I will say that I probably have a considerable level of socioeconomic privilege -- I always went through Big Apartment Management Companies where there were several complexes, good reviews on apartmentratings.com (or at least, consistency re: what the problem points were, so I could say, "Am I OK with x as an issue?") I would not even be able to begin to take the precautions the author takes...I would probably get scammed in so many ways.
posted by subversiveasset at 9:30 PM on September 12, 2015
Soooooo, quadbonus hasn't posted since ten minutes after this.
posted by MattWPBS at 3:00 AM on September 18, 2015
posted by MattWPBS at 3:00 AM on September 18, 2015
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posted by ubiquity at 2:03 PM on September 11, 2015 [6 favorites]