One tiny warm spot in the center, and a narrow ring of mediocrity around
September 21, 2015 4:59 AM Subscribe
When shopping for a microwave oven, bring a box of appalams and cook four of them for 30 seconds. (via What if? xkcd via this amusing ELI5 about a microwave-resistant gnat)
When Consumer Reports tests microwave ovens, they use slices of cheese ("Kraft Singles") on pieces of balloon bread to do exactly this test.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 5:34 AM on September 21, 2015
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 5:34 AM on September 21, 2015
When Consumer Reports tests microwave ovens, they use slices of cheese ("Kraft Singles") on pieces of balloon bread to do exactly this test.
I might be nitpicking, but I think it's the word "cheese" that deserves the quotation marks in that last sentence.
posted by GamblingBlues at 5:42 AM on September 21, 2015 [31 favorites]
I might be nitpicking, but I think it's the word "cheese" that deserves the quotation marks in that last sentence.
posted by GamblingBlues at 5:42 AM on September 21, 2015 [31 favorites]
Where do you shop where the microwave ovens are actually plugged in?
posted by Thorzdad at 6:08 AM on September 21, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 6:08 AM on September 21, 2015 [8 favorites]
Metafilter: One tiny warm spot in the center, and a narrow ring of mediocrity around
posted by ZaphodB at 6:14 AM on September 21, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by ZaphodB at 6:14 AM on September 21, 2015 [12 favorites]
balloon bread
Is this the "pocket-bread"-for-pita equivalent of poori or something else?
posted by griphus at 6:20 AM on September 21, 2015
Is this the "pocket-bread"-for-pita equivalent of poori or something else?
posted by griphus at 6:20 AM on September 21, 2015
This is why you place your food offset from the center of the rotating platter. I thought everyone knew this.
posted by Splunge at 6:22 AM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Splunge at 6:22 AM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
A better test would be to cook them longer and see how they turn out.
I do papadams in my microwave (centered in the platter), and they start cooking the same way (the center and outside edges puff up), and between 30 and 45 seconds, the puffed parts expand and meet each other, and the whole thing is puffed and crispy.
I'm betting some of those microwaves would have done a good job with more time, and some wouldn't. That would be more informative than seeing the various ways they half-cook the food.
posted by Brachinus at 6:24 AM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
I do papadams in my microwave (centered in the platter), and they start cooking the same way (the center and outside edges puff up), and between 30 and 45 seconds, the puffed parts expand and meet each other, and the whole thing is puffed and crispy.
I'm betting some of those microwaves would have done a good job with more time, and some wouldn't. That would be more informative than seeing the various ways they half-cook the food.
posted by Brachinus at 6:24 AM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
and between 30 and 45 seconds, the puffed parts expand and meet each other, and the whole thing is puffed and crispy.
But is that because the microwave stops producing hotspots as time goes on? Or is it just that pouring enough energy into the hotspots will eventually heat up the rest of the papadam by heat conduction?
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:39 AM on September 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
But is that because the microwave stops producing hotspots as time goes on? Or is it just that pouring enough energy into the hotspots will eventually heat up the rest of the papadam by heat conduction?
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:39 AM on September 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't know why microwave ovens don't have a way of moving the standing wave (which is what causes the hot/cold spots) around the cavity. You only have to shift it by a wavelength or two, and a few obvious methods (pistons, vanes, even switching between two magnetrons) suggest themselves.
Mind you, a friend did buy an expensive 'fractal' microwave that was supposed to do that. It didn't.
(From the Reddit thread: Near Meadowbank (gold mine in nunavut) where my father works, there is a lot of natives living in shitty conditions. Their "drug" of choice is tuning the microwave so it can function while open and they put their head in there for 3-4 seconds. I mean, cheap buzz, right? which... well, if nobody on Reddit believes you, it's not going to stand up as a decent urban myth. Or even rural.)
posted by Devonian at 6:40 AM on September 21, 2015
Mind you, a friend did buy an expensive 'fractal' microwave that was supposed to do that. It didn't.
(From the Reddit thread: Near Meadowbank (gold mine in nunavut) where my father works, there is a lot of natives living in shitty conditions. Their "drug" of choice is tuning the microwave so it can function while open and they put their head in there for 3-4 seconds. I mean, cheap buzz, right? which... well, if nobody on Reddit believes you, it's not going to stand up as a decent urban myth. Or even rural.)
posted by Devonian at 6:40 AM on September 21, 2015
This, of course, is not the way to heat papadams. High heat skillet is the only way. Use your fingers to turn them. Deal with the burns.
But they missed talking about how the papadams are actually showing a cross-section of the electromagnetic energy. The oven tries to take an "ideal" antenna and push that energy around to a more ideal shape, but there is only so much one can do given the engineering constraints.
posted by clvrmnky at 6:46 AM on September 21, 2015
But they missed talking about how the papadams are actually showing a cross-section of the electromagnetic energy. The oven tries to take an "ideal" antenna and push that energy around to a more ideal shape, but there is only so much one can do given the engineering constraints.
posted by clvrmnky at 6:46 AM on September 21, 2015
You only have to shift it by a wavelength or two, and a few obvious methods (pistons, vanes, even switching between two magnetrons)
All of those solutions increase the manufacturing cost for marginal benefit. Microwaves are essentially cheap commodity objects and most people are going to choose one based on price, so anything that increases the price or decreases profit margin is going to be a non-starter.
posted by backseatpilot at 6:49 AM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
All of those solutions increase the manufacturing cost for marginal benefit. Microwaves are essentially cheap commodity objects and most people are going to choose one based on price, so anything that increases the price or decreases profit margin is going to be a non-starter.
posted by backseatpilot at 6:49 AM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
I just bought a microwave three days ago! WHERE WERE YOU, METAFILTER?!?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:08 AM on September 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:08 AM on September 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
The pull quote: Saturn-shaped objects will cook evenly.
posted by evilDoug at 7:10 AM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by evilDoug at 7:10 AM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
That's all well and good for them, but now I want appalams
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 7:16 AM on September 21, 2015
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 7:16 AM on September 21, 2015
I had a professor in college who was a food engineer. One of his old jobs was to design things like microwave dinners so that they heated properly. It's awesome that you can scratch the surface of something as seemingly mundane as a TV dinner and find all sorts of crazy science.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 7:20 AM on September 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by C'est la D.C. at 7:20 AM on September 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
A better test would be to cook them longer and see how they turn out.
I thought that at first too, but I think the undercooking is better. The goal here is to figure out where the hot spots are and just how well spread out they are. If it's cooked through you can't see that nearly as well.
Related: measuring the speed of light with a microwave. The hot spots are half a wavelength apart, which lets you measure the wavelength of the microwaves at about 6cm. The frequency is printed on the microwave, say 2450MHz. c = wavelength * frequency.
posted by Nelson at 7:56 AM on September 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
I thought that at first too, but I think the undercooking is better. The goal here is to figure out where the hot spots are and just how well spread out they are. If it's cooked through you can't see that nearly as well.
Related: measuring the speed of light with a microwave. The hot spots are half a wavelength apart, which lets you measure the wavelength of the microwaves at about 6cm. The frequency is printed on the microwave, say 2450MHz. c = wavelength * frequency.
posted by Nelson at 7:56 AM on September 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
WHERE WERE YOU, METAFILTER?!?
We were doing important shark science.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:28 AM on September 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
We were doing important shark science.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:28 AM on September 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
Maybe it's a sign of cognitive decline, but I can't remember the last time I shopped for a microwave oven.
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:42 AM on September 21, 2015
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:42 AM on September 21, 2015
I like that they used the same plate across the tests to eliminate bias, but did they allow the plate to cool between tests? That seems like it could explain the later even results compared to the early discrete rings.
posted by maryr at 9:55 AM on September 21, 2015
posted by maryr at 9:55 AM on September 21, 2015
Considering that a cheap-to-middle-range microwave oven costs less than a dinner out these days I don't think people spend too much time analyzing which one to buy.
posted by GuyZero at 10:06 AM on September 21, 2015
posted by GuyZero at 10:06 AM on September 21, 2015
My old LG microwave (ca. 2006) did a brilliant job with both papadums and popcorn-in-a-brown-paper-bag. The papadums cooked pretty evenly in 30 seconds, and 1/4 cup of popcorn popped to near-perfection in 2 minutes, with just a few unpopped kernels left over.
The new LG microwave I got this year has the same wattage. When the old one's magnetron failed, I was halfway through a package of papadums and a bag of popcorn. When I started using the new one, I found that it left absolute dead spots on my papadums no matter how much I rotated them and moved them around the chamber. Popcorn is wildly inconsistent: it burns maybe 25% of the time, under-pops more than the old oven 50% of the time, and does a good job 25% of the time.
In conclusion: modern appliances are rubbish.
posted by maudlin at 10:23 AM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
The new LG microwave I got this year has the same wattage. When the old one's magnetron failed, I was halfway through a package of papadums and a bag of popcorn. When I started using the new one, I found that it left absolute dead spots on my papadums no matter how much I rotated them and moved them around the chamber. Popcorn is wildly inconsistent: it burns maybe 25% of the time, under-pops more than the old oven 50% of the time, and does a good job 25% of the time.
In conclusion: modern appliances are rubbish.
posted by maudlin at 10:23 AM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
WHERE WERE YOU, METAFILTER?!?
In the Dyson thread, snarking as usual. You'd hope a $300 vacuum performs better than a $30 vacuum, no matter who's name is on the expensive one. Back to microwaves though: Does anyone actually use any of the more advanced features of their microwave? There's a "popcorn" button on many microwaves but I can't recall using it. Supposedly the fancier microwaves have an auto-cook feature that senses when the food is ready, but I've never really tried.
Where's all the good microwave food to drive innovation in consumer microwaves? I've bitten into half-molten half-frozen food before learning that particular microwave's setting, but choices of food itself are pretty much junk food or a different type of junk food. There're only so many Hot Pockets you can eat before you want something better. Picards in Europe is really what I'm looking for, I don't know of anything comparable in the US.
Oh sorry, forgot to snark: The article dates back to 2011, but using the microwave for experiments is a time honored tradition.
posted by fragmede at 10:55 AM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
In the Dyson thread, snarking as usual. You'd hope a $300 vacuum performs better than a $30 vacuum, no matter who's name is on the expensive one. Back to microwaves though: Does anyone actually use any of the more advanced features of their microwave? There's a "popcorn" button on many microwaves but I can't recall using it. Supposedly the fancier microwaves have an auto-cook feature that senses when the food is ready, but I've never really tried.
Where's all the good microwave food to drive innovation in consumer microwaves? I've bitten into half-molten half-frozen food before learning that particular microwave's setting, but choices of food itself are pretty much junk food or a different type of junk food. There're only so many Hot Pockets you can eat before you want something better. Picards in Europe is really what I'm looking for, I don't know of anything comparable in the US.
Oh sorry, forgot to snark: The article dates back to 2011, but using the microwave for experiments is a time honored tradition.
posted by fragmede at 10:55 AM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
This has just reminded me of the old microwave we had many years ago. Can't remember how well it cooked, but it was famous for having an autocook button labelled "brains in parsley sauce".
posted by Miss Otis' Egrets at 1:11 PM on September 21, 2015
posted by Miss Otis' Egrets at 1:11 PM on September 21, 2015
Does anyone actually use any of the more advanced features of their microwave? There's a "popcorn" button on many microwaves but I can't recall using it. Supposedly the fancier microwaves have an auto-cook feature that senses when the food is ready, but I've never really tried
My cheap whirlpool (came with the house) has a "baked potato" button that does a pretty good job. The "pizza slice" button is nowhere close. I don't know what kind of pizza they were reheating in their test lab, but setting it to "1 slice" gives a time just over 4 minutes, and the cheese is fully melted and running off in something like 1/2 that time.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 2:03 PM on September 21, 2015
My cheap whirlpool (came with the house) has a "baked potato" button that does a pretty good job. The "pizza slice" button is nowhere close. I don't know what kind of pizza they were reheating in their test lab, but setting it to "1 slice" gives a time just over 4 minutes, and the cheese is fully melted and running off in something like 1/2 that time.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 2:03 PM on September 21, 2015
The material (aka food) you put in the microwave will change the standing wave pattern. So this is actually an incredibly complicated problem! The appalam test is fine for cooking appalams that you throw on top of the turntable, but put a plate with an appalam on top of a small bole with 1/4 cup of water in it, and then what happens?
The new LG microwave I got this year has the same wattage. When the old one's magnetron failed, I was halfway through a package of papadums and a bag of popcorn. When I started using the new one, I found that it left absolute dead spots on my papadums no matter how much I rotated them and moved them around the chamber. Popcorn is wildly inconsistent: it burns maybe 25% of the time, under-pops more than the old oven 50% of the time, and does a good job 25% of the time.
I've only just thought of this, so don't yell :) Try raising the working surface a couple of cm.
posted by Chuckles at 3:19 PM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
The new LG microwave I got this year has the same wattage. When the old one's magnetron failed, I was halfway through a package of papadums and a bag of popcorn. When I started using the new one, I found that it left absolute dead spots on my papadums no matter how much I rotated them and moved them around the chamber. Popcorn is wildly inconsistent: it burns maybe 25% of the time, under-pops more than the old oven 50% of the time, and does a good job 25% of the time.
I've only just thought of this, so don't yell :) Try raising the working surface a couple of cm.
posted by Chuckles at 3:19 PM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Why I microwaved a moth today.
Spoiler
It flew out after about 25secs.
posted by aetg at 4:18 PM on September 21, 2015
Spoiler
It flew out after about 25secs.
posted by aetg at 4:18 PM on September 21, 2015
Never walk away from microwave popcorn, guys. The popcorn button is a lie. Do it by sound.
posted by maryr at 9:01 PM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by maryr at 9:01 PM on September 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Agreed. I've always cut my two minute cycle short when the popping rate slows, but in this new unit, about 25% of the time, the burning starts even before the popping slows.
I will Science tomorrow and see if raising the unburnt offerings helps.
posted by maudlin at 9:59 PM on September 21, 2015
I will Science tomorrow and see if raising the unburnt offerings helps.
posted by maudlin at 9:59 PM on September 21, 2015
balloon bread
Is this the "pocket-bread"-for-pita equivalent of poori or something else?
OMG I must be getting old. Does the younger generation really not know what "balloon bread" is? I guess I'll dodder out and check my buggy whip collection again, and then see if my slide rule still works...
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 11:29 PM on September 21, 2015
Is this the "pocket-bread"-for-pita equivalent of poori or something else?
OMG I must be getting old. Does the younger generation really not know what "balloon bread" is? I guess I'll dodder out and check my buggy whip collection again, and then see if my slide rule still works...
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 11:29 PM on September 21, 2015
I don't know much about the insides of microwave ovens but isn't it unfair to be using a plate of flat food on the bottom of the oven to test this? The entire 3D field is what counts for bulk foods, and since the tray rotates anyway, it would be better to space the three pieces vertically.
posted by Dr Dracator at 3:56 AM on September 22, 2015
posted by Dr Dracator at 3:56 AM on September 22, 2015
It flew out after about 25secs.
What, before you'd even opened the door? Fuck I think you just made a Mothra
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:12 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
What, before you'd even opened the door? Fuck I think you just made a Mothra
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:12 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Never walk away from microwave popcorn, guys.
Walk away and never look back! Join us in the light of the whirly-pop!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:28 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Walk away and never look back! Join us in the light of the whirly-pop!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:28 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Does the younger generation really not know what "balloon bread" is?
No, the younger generation eats grains. As many grains as possible. Seven grain bread? Psssh, I can get 12 grain bread for only 75 cents more, that's real value. Fifteen grain bread? Yes, YES, I will have it. Throw some more seeds in there. The crumbs of my bread must be able to supply a small bird feeder with a balanced diet. Fill my gullet with those delicious grains.
Unless it's a club sandwich, I mean, obviously those go on white bread.
posted by maryr at 8:00 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
No, the younger generation eats grains. As many grains as possible. Seven grain bread? Psssh, I can get 12 grain bread for only 75 cents more, that's real value. Fifteen grain bread? Yes, YES, I will have it. Throw some more seeds in there. The crumbs of my bread must be able to supply a small bird feeder with a balanced diet. Fill my gullet with those delicious grains.
Unless it's a club sandwich, I mean, obviously those go on white bread.
posted by maryr at 8:00 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Does the younger generation really not know what "balloon bread" is?
I'm like in my mid-forties and I've only ever heard it called "Wonder Bread". I suspect this is regional and not generational.
posted by GuyZero at 8:13 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm like in my mid-forties and I've only ever heard it called "Wonder Bread". I suspect this is regional and not generational.
posted by GuyZero at 8:13 AM on September 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm mumblemumble years old and read the term "balloon bread" for the first time a few seconds ago. We call Wonder brand bread "Wonder Bread," and bread of a similar color and texture "punky white bread"
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:40 AM on September 22, 2015
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:40 AM on September 22, 2015
OK, a google search for "punky white bread" makes me think that might not be a particularly common term, either.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:41 AM on September 22, 2015
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:41 AM on September 22, 2015
Did someone say cheese?
Professor Bill Hammack (a.k.a. EngineerGuy) from the University of Illinois has a cool video on how microwave ovens work, including its effect on a plate of cheese.
The animations illustrating the science behind it are neat. The scientific concepts are surprisingly accessible, even if you don't want to follow all the math (I don't).
EngineerGuy on Mefi, previously.
posted by cynical pinnacle at 7:01 PM on September 22, 2015
Professor Bill Hammack (a.k.a. EngineerGuy) from the University of Illinois has a cool video on how microwave ovens work, including its effect on a plate of cheese.
The animations illustrating the science behind it are neat. The scientific concepts are surprisingly accessible, even if you don't want to follow all the math (I don't).
EngineerGuy on Mefi, previously.
posted by cynical pinnacle at 7:01 PM on September 22, 2015
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