America's Ship of State Celebrates Uniquely Victorious Status
September 30, 2015 7:31 PM Subscribe
The decommissioning of the USS Simpson, a Perry-class frigate that sank an Iranian fast-attack craft in April 1988, means that there is only one ship left in the U.S. Navy that has sunk an enemy ship -- "Old Ironsides", a.k.a. the USS Constitution, which was launched in 1797.
That was an unfortunate accident involving the USS Greeneville, but the Ehime Maru wasn't an enemy ship.
posted by Rob Rockets at 7:45 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Rob Rockets at 7:45 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Delightful (and awesome) though it may is that a wooden ship more than 200 years old is technically still in the Navy, I feel like the emphasis here is on "technically."
There's probably a summer action comedy in there somewhere though.
posted by postcommunism at 7:47 PM on September 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
There's probably a summer action comedy in there somewhere though.
posted by postcommunism at 7:47 PM on September 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Huzzah! Her sides are made of iron!
posted by mazola at 7:58 PM on September 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by mazola at 7:58 PM on September 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
Don't tell the Republican presidential candidates, or they will demand we go on a ship-sinking spree.
posted by procrastination at 8:06 PM on September 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by procrastination at 8:06 PM on September 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
How many ships currently in service with any nation's navy have sunk an enemy warship?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:10 PM on September 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:10 PM on September 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
If you're wondering, it was HMS Guerriere (38 guns), sunk by USS Constitution after her men boarded and burned the British ship. The RN had a habit of naming its own ships after nobel enemy ships it has defeated, hence the French name of the English ship. I had to look it up, and I'm glad I did, because I found this description of the battle in Captain Isaac Hull's report to SecNav Paul Hamilton, followed by the RN Captain Dacres' own account to the Admiralty.
At 5 minutes past 6 PM being alongside, and within less than Pistol Shot, we commenced a very heavy fire from all of our Guns, loaded with round, and grape, which done great Execution, so much so that in less than fifteen minutes from the time, we got alongside, his Mizen Mast went by the board, and his Main Yard in the Slings, and the Hull, and Sails very much injured, which made it very difficult for them to manage her.
It's very dramatic-- the Connie wounds the Guerriere (above) and then cuts her off, causing a low-speed collision. Just as Capt. Hull is calling for his crew to gather for boarding, all sorts of rigging and spars on the English ship start falling to pieces. They backed off and did some repairs, and it got dark in that time, at which point they could barely see that the English had raised a jury (temporary) mast and flag, so they sent a boat over to see if it was a white flag. It was, and they boat came back with Captain James Richard Dacres Esqr., Royal Navy, to offer his surrender and sword.
Also, writing sure was different before standardized lexicography.
posted by Sunburnt at 8:17 PM on September 30, 2015 [16 favorites]
At 5 minutes past 6 PM being alongside, and within less than Pistol Shot, we commenced a very heavy fire from all of our Guns, loaded with round, and grape, which done great Execution, so much so that in less than fifteen minutes from the time, we got alongside, his Mizen Mast went by the board, and his Main Yard in the Slings, and the Hull, and Sails very much injured, which made it very difficult for them to manage her.
It's very dramatic-- the Connie wounds the Guerriere (above) and then cuts her off, causing a low-speed collision. Just as Capt. Hull is calling for his crew to gather for boarding, all sorts of rigging and spars on the English ship start falling to pieces. They backed off and did some repairs, and it got dark in that time, at which point they could barely see that the English had raised a jury (temporary) mast and flag, so they sent a boat over to see if it was a white flag. It was, and they boat came back with Captain James Richard Dacres Esqr., Royal Navy, to offer his surrender and sword.
Also, writing sure was different before standardized lexicography.
posted by Sunburnt at 8:17 PM on September 30, 2015 [16 favorites]
Rou_xenophobe --- I think the Russians took out a Georgian patrol boat in the 2008 war. The last "major" warship sinking I can think of was the Belgraji, sunk by HMS Conqueror in the Falklands war but she's been decommissioned
posted by nathan_teske at 8:21 PM on September 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by nathan_teske at 8:21 PM on September 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I guessing there are a few in the Reserve Fleet that have sunk ships too.
posted by Confess, Fletch at 8:25 PM on September 30, 2015
posted by Confess, Fletch at 8:25 PM on September 30, 2015
How many ships currently in service with any nation's navy have sunk an enemy warship?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe
(Spoilers for "Surface Detail" by Iain Banks)
As a Culture Rapid Offense Unit yourself, you must be aware that even the galaxy-spanning Culture doesn't have that many. Look at ROU Falling Outside The Normal Moral Constraints, which single-handedly (or 12-handedly, owing to its peculiar geometry) annihilated a (manned) GCFC fleet sent to blot out its inconvenient intrusion, followed by its participation in the destruction of thousands of unmanned AI vessels sent to heat up the "War on Hell". After a suitable period of modestly acknowledging that maybe it shouldn't've been so gleeful in the process of destroying all those lives, then went on to a life of never again doing the Ship equivalent of paying for beer, trading on the story instead.
posted by Sunburnt at 8:26 PM on September 30, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe
(Spoilers for "Surface Detail" by Iain Banks)
As a Culture Rapid Offense Unit yourself, you must be aware that even the galaxy-spanning Culture doesn't have that many. Look at ROU Falling Outside The Normal Moral Constraints, which single-handedly (or 12-handedly, owing to its peculiar geometry) annihilated a (manned) GCFC fleet sent to blot out its inconvenient intrusion, followed by its participation in the destruction of thousands of unmanned AI vessels sent to heat up the "War on Hell". After a suitable period of modestly acknowledging that maybe it shouldn't've been so gleeful in the process of destroying all those lives, then went on to a life of never again doing the Ship equivalent of paying for beer, trading on the story instead.
posted by Sunburnt at 8:26 PM on September 30, 2015 [14 favorites]
Missed the edit window -- "Belgraji" = "Belgrano"
posted by nathan_teske at 8:32 PM on September 30, 2015
posted by nathan_teske at 8:32 PM on September 30, 2015
How many ships currently in service with any nation's navy have sunk an enemy warship?
The Russian Navy sunk a Georgian ship a few years ago.
The South Korean Navy occasionally engages in battle with North Korean patrols.
Further back, the Royal Navy did a number on the Iraq Navy during the Gulf War.
I can't think of any major ship being sunk recently. At least not this century.
posted by madajb at 8:32 PM on September 30, 2015
The Russian Navy sunk a Georgian ship a few years ago.
The South Korean Navy occasionally engages in battle with North Korean patrols.
Further back, the Royal Navy did a number on the Iraq Navy during the Gulf War.
I can't think of any major ship being sunk recently. At least not this century.
posted by madajb at 8:32 PM on September 30, 2015
Don't tell the Republican presidential candidates, or they will demand we go on a ship-sinking spree.
They're seriously talking about reviving Reagan's absurd even in the early 80s 600-ship navy, first candidate to propose dragging the USS Iowa out of mothballs again wins? They don't understand anything including military operations except in terms of whatever lavishes the most on the defense contractors.
Ship to ship combat is deader than deader in an era of cruise missiles. In terms of 21st century realpolitick, it''s all about projection of air power in regional conflicts, protecting the carriers to the extent possible in larger scale operations (because let's face it, they're fucking toast if a shooting war breaks out with China), and maintaining a sub fleet with nuclear second strike and covert ops capabilities.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:34 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
They're seriously talking about reviving Reagan's absurd even in the early 80s 600-ship navy, first candidate to propose dragging the USS Iowa out of mothballs again wins? They don't understand anything including military operations except in terms of whatever lavishes the most on the defense contractors.
Ship to ship combat is deader than deader in an era of cruise missiles. In terms of 21st century realpolitick, it''s all about projection of air power in regional conflicts, protecting the carriers to the extent possible in larger scale operations (because let's face it, they're fucking toast if a shooting war breaks out with China), and maintaining a sub fleet with nuclear second strike and covert ops capabilities.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:34 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ship to ship combat is deader than deader in an era of cruise missiles.
Let's just see how the new naval railgun mount concept plays out. Its 200-mile range is something of an improvement over the 18,000 yard (10 mile) range of the Mark 12 5-inch mount it's destined to replace.
posted by Sunburnt at 8:51 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Let's just see how the new naval railgun mount concept plays out. Its 200-mile range is something of an improvement over the 18,000 yard (10 mile) range of the Mark 12 5-inch mount it's destined to replace.
posted by Sunburnt at 8:51 PM on September 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hey now! It was also a Perry class Fast Frigate that made a stop in Vietnam in 2003, the first such visit by an American warship since the end of the Vietnam War, which visit was a milestone in the normalization of relations and opening of trade and so on (USS Vandegrift). Heady stuff for little ships whose primary design goal was "be cheap to build and operate."
As it happens, I paid for the second two years of college with a year spent at a Long Beach, CA shipyard ( Southwest Marine), climbing in and around several Friggin Frigs (including Vandegrift, iirc) while they were being refitted with stabilizer fins to make them less tippy, and with steel hull plates to make them less twisty. Those ships were built in the 70s and 80s, and still seemed pretty new when I was employed on them. Obviously, we're all older now, although I have a bunch more years before decommissioning. I hope.
posted by notyou at 10:14 PM on September 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
As it happens, I paid for the second two years of college with a year spent at a Long Beach, CA shipyard ( Southwest Marine), climbing in and around several Friggin Frigs (including Vandegrift, iirc) while they were being refitted with stabilizer fins to make them less tippy, and with steel hull plates to make them less twisty. Those ships were built in the 70s and 80s, and still seemed pretty new when I was employed on them. Obviously, we're all older now, although I have a bunch more years before decommissioning. I hope.
posted by notyou at 10:14 PM on September 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Falling Outside The Normal Moral Constraints
Coincidentally, this is what it says on my business cards.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:47 AM on October 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Coincidentally, this is what it says on my business cards.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:47 AM on October 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Rou_xenophobe --- I think the Russians took out a Georgian patrol boat in the 2008 war. The last "major" warship sinking I can think of was the Belgraji Belgrano, sunk by HMS Conqueror in the Falklands war but she's been decommissioned
Fun naval trivia: the General Belgrano was acquired from the US Navy, where she had begun as the USS Phoenix. The only ship ever to have been sunk in wartime by a nuclear-powered submarine was also the only ship to survive the attack at Pearl Harbor undamaged.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:19 AM on October 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
Fun naval trivia: the General Belgrano was acquired from the US Navy, where she had begun as the USS Phoenix. The only ship ever to have been sunk in wartime by a nuclear-powered submarine was also the only ship to survive the attack at Pearl Harbor undamaged.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:19 AM on October 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
I loved going to visit the USS Constitution in high school, not least because it is a place where particularly excellent and meritorious Naval Officers are stationed. Which meant that high school me could smile and giggle at handsome Navy guys in uniforms while learning about Powder Monkeys! The best.
posted by ChuraChura at 6:17 AM on October 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ChuraChura at 6:17 AM on October 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Not sure if she counts as she's a museum ship now, but HMS Belfast helped to sink the Scharnhorst, and HMS Victory may have won a battle or two at some point, but I'm not sure.
posted by dazed_one at 7:34 AM on October 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by dazed_one at 7:34 AM on October 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Clearly we need to go on a massive program to build a fleet of wooden frigates! It's the only proven naval weapon we have!
posted by briank at 9:05 AM on October 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by briank at 9:05 AM on October 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
So wait a minute, the USS Constitution is called that because it was named by.....George Washington?!! That's insane. It's like one of those impossibly old turtles.
posted by I-baLL at 9:12 AM on October 1, 2015
posted by I-baLL at 9:12 AM on October 1, 2015
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posted by ctmf at 7:36 PM on September 30, 2015 [2 favorites]