Forgiveness is something other people owe you after you've hurt them.

November 4, 2015 11:47 AM

How To Apologize: "Remember, the goal of apologizing is to keep someone from being angry, because you're responsible for how other people feel about you." [SLToast]
posted by divined by radio (81 comments total)

Also remember that using the words, "I apologize profusely" means that you have indeed apologized in a profuse manner, thereby increasing the merit of your apology.
posted by zennie at 11:56 AM on November 4, 2015 [3 favorites]

Forgiveness is something that other people owe you after you’ve hurt them, and it’s your right to extract it whenever you’re ready to have it. That forgiveness is yours, and you deserve it. If anyone tries to withhold it from you, you go in there and retrieve it through any means necessary. = chilling! Seen it far too often, both reported on elsewhere and elsewhere.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:58 AM on November 4, 2015 [17 favorites]

Also remember that using the words, "I apologize profusely" means that you have indeed apologized in a profuse manner, thereby increasing the merit of your apology.

I prefer the words "I may owe you an apology," followed by the lack of same.
posted by Edgewise at 12:01 PM on November 4, 2015 [9 favorites]

wow, I am so profusely sorry that you're taking this in completely the wrong way.
posted by philip-random at 12:16 PM on November 4, 2015 [8 favorites]

But ... everyone does have to like me.
posted by The Minotaur at 12:17 PM on November 4, 2015 [12 favorites]

Forgiveness is something that other people owe you after you’ve hurt them, and it’s your right to extract it whenever you’re ready to have it.

Apology is something that other people owe you after you've been hurt, and it's your right to extract it when you're ready to have it.

Also works?
posted by josher71 at 12:17 PM on November 4, 2015 [2 favorites]

Apology is something that other people owe you after you've been hurt, and it's your right to extract it when you're ready to have it.

Also works?

Sure, that makes sense! Up next: "Well, maybe seatbelts should wear people! Oooh, looks like I touched a nerve there! Guess what's good for the goose ain't so good for the gander, eh, Ms. Smarty-Pants?"
posted by clockzero at 12:24 PM on November 4, 2015 [13 favorites]

What is the point of this? Is this supposed to be funny? Not to me. Is it supposed to be instructive? Anyone who might learn from it won't. Waste of time.
posted by mojohand at 12:26 PM on November 4, 2015 [3 favorites]

Are.... are you demanding an apology, mojohand?
posted by sciatrix at 12:28 PM on November 4, 2015 [37 favorites]

I'm sorry you wasted your time, mojohand.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 12:29 PM on November 4, 2015 [22 favorites]

What is the point of this?

Well, to take your question seriously, I think it's to point out the absurdity of how so many of us think and act, in ways often unexamined and for motivations poorly understood.

Seeing these things written out so plainly highlights their absurdity, and may likely be a wake up call or needed reminder for many who read it.
posted by LooseFilter at 12:30 PM on November 4, 2015 [30 favorites]

What is the point of this?

I liked it because it reminded me how difficult it is to navigate apology and forgiveness. It made me forgive myself and those around me a little bit for not always getting it right. But don't worry, I'll probably forget about this small insight by next week and return to full-strength regret.

(Plus what LooseFilter said.)
posted by The Minotaur at 12:32 PM on November 4, 2015 [5 favorites]

Sorry, I'm Canadian.
posted by Fizz at 12:32 PM on November 4, 2015 [5 favorites]

I was in a band with a person like this. She would immediately forgive herself for whatever she did wrong, and then get irritated when you didn't likewise forgive her. She viewed apologies as get out of jail free cards and used them whenever somebody seemed upset, but then she'd just go right back to doing whatever had gotten her into trouble in the first place. And if she had really hurt somebody, she would twist it in her head so that it was the other person's fault, and would badmouth them -- well, pretty much forever.

Mallory Ortberg nails it here. These are people to watch out for.
posted by maxsparber at 12:33 PM on November 4, 2015 [11 favorites]

10. Related: Anger must always be fixed right away. Anger is never acceptable. If someone is feeling angry, that’s a problem. More specifically, it’s your problem. Find a way to make their anger your fault. That way you can fix it more quickly.

Wow is that ever me. Anger scares me so I have to stop it ASAP. If I make it be about me I can apologize and hopefully end it. That's a reaction to yelling leading to physical violence.
posted by irisclara at 12:34 PM on November 4, 2015 [14 favorites]

people not finding the-toast funny always makes it more hilarious to me.
posted by nadawi at 12:34 PM on November 4, 2015 [42 favorites]

What is the point of this? Is this supposed to be funny? Not to me. Is it supposed to be instructive? Anyone who might learn from it won't. Waste of time.

Commenting on it even moreso, one would think.
posted by Etrigan at 12:45 PM on November 4, 2015 [7 favorites]

That forgiveness is yours, and you deserve it. If anyone tries to withhold it from you, you go in there and retrieve it through any means necessary.

Wow. I didn't know Mallory Ortberg knew my father.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 12:48 PM on November 4, 2015 [7 favorites]

people not finding the-toast funny always makes it more hilarious to me

I'm the same way, but with Garfield
posted by Hoopo at 12:49 PM on November 4, 2015 [10 favorites]

Wow. I didn't know Mallory Ortberg knew my father.

Wow. I didn't know Mallory Ortberg knew me.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:49 PM on November 4, 2015 [3 favorites]

i'll read the article soon, but (in the meanwhile!) i'd like to offer up dream hampton's excellent "anatomy of an apology". i thought it was very helpful and it changed how i deal with people, for the better.

"Anatomy of An Apology: 1) I’m sorry 2) Here’s my understanding of how I hurt you 3) I will never do this again"

posted by raihan_ at 12:50 PM on November 4, 2015 [4 favorites]

Anatomy of An Apology

that's how i was taught to apologize as a kid. sometimes i had to apologize 5 or 6 times in a row to my brothers until i got it right.
posted by nadawi at 12:58 PM on November 4, 2015 [2 favorites]

I'm sorry you feel that way.

I don't accept your anger.

I am not a bad person.

I feel good about myself.

What were you saying?
posted by mule98J at 12:59 PM on November 4, 2015 [5 favorites]

I don't think humor was the main intent here
posted by thelonius at 1:02 PM on November 4, 2015

Sure, that makes sense! Up next: "Well, maybe seatbelts should wear people! Oooh, looks like I touched a nerve there! Guess what's good for the goose ain't so good for the gander, eh, Ms. Smarty-Pants?"

I was coming from a place of curiosity, not vengefulness.
posted by josher71 at 1:03 PM on November 4, 2015

Always use the passive voice when you apologize: "I am sorry things went the way they did" rather than "I am sorry for doing the thing that hurt you." Clearly outlining the difference between the existence of the upsetting event and your own actions fully alleviates any responsibility you might otherwise have had toward the recipient of your apology.
posted by divined by radio at 1:04 PM on November 4, 2015 [10 favorites]

This has to be the best Passive-Aggressive Note of all time.
posted by clawsoon at 1:05 PM on November 4, 2015 [1 favorite]

How you apologize correctly is to say "I'm sorry" and then try not to fuck up in whatever way that called for an apology in the first place. There, I saved you from an emotionally manipulative think piece.
posted by Taft at 1:12 PM on November 4, 2015

I'm curious -- what about that piece made you feel "emotionally manipulated"? ('Cause that sounds more like a you problem than a problem with the piece.)
posted by mudpuppie at 1:14 PM on November 4, 2015 [15 favorites]

I spend a lot of time in environments where children behave like utter brats become overtired, forget to use their inside voices, and lash out at or otherwise abuse their siblings. For the latter, parents often require apologies in a ritualized exchange that perplexes me every time. It doesn't seem effective because the offender is rarely actually sorry (or is only sorry to have been caught). As an outside observer, I don't get it. Learning the rote script doesn't cultivate empathy; instead, it rewards fake apologies and teaches kids that phony regret is a get-out-of-jail free card, as someone above out it. But this parenting tactic is so common that I must be wrong. Does this approach work?
posted by carmicha at 1:20 PM on November 4, 2015 [7 favorites]

Learning the rote script doesn't cultivate empathy; instead, it rewards fake apologies and teaches kids that phony regret is a get-out-of-jail free card, as someone above out it. But this parenting tactic is so common that I must be wrong. Does this approach work?

You have to work your way up to empathy, via doing rote things, where kids are concerned. At the very least they learn "If I do Annoying Thing, I will have to spend five minutes making an apology," and most kids find that very boring or even embarrassing. So they learn to maybe not do Annoying Thing so as not to have to go through the ritual.

Much like "please" and "thank you." Little kids don't really feel gratitude, but you teach them to say those things anyway, because that's how people should treat each other. At some point, you hope, the ability to actually care about other people kicks in and it becomes more sincere. In the meantime, they at least had some manners.
posted by emjaybee at 1:26 PM on November 4, 2015 [31 favorites]

What about people who tell you "I never meant to hurt you" when they apologize? Sure, active maliciousness is bad, and maybe it is reassuring to know that one's friends, romantic partners, etc. aren't deliberately trying to cause one pain. On the other hand, "not actively malicious" is a pretty low standard for someone to set for themselves. I mean, "I wasn't trying to hurt you, I just really wanted to sleep with that other woman and didn't care enough about the promises I'd made or the pain it would cause you to bother to stop myself" doesn't seem that great, nor does "my intention wasn't to hurt you, I was belittling everything you did for different reasons."
posted by Area Man at 1:28 PM on November 4, 2015 [3 favorites]

But this parenting tactic is so common that I must be wrong. Does this approach work?

i think it totally worked for me. when i find myself in the position to apologize for something, i still do the script in my head first and that helps me work out any residual bad feelings before i actually get to the apology to the person. it also taught me to recognize how my actions could affect other people negatively even if it wasn't my intent. in the moment it might not look like it's working, but i do think it sticks over time.
posted by nadawi at 1:29 PM on November 4, 2015 [2 favorites]

I was coming from a place of curiosity, not vengefulness.

You're curious about whether wronging someone and then giving an apology can be functionally identical to having been wronged and then receiving an apology? I find it hard to believe that someone could be unsure about the difference. We all have lots of first-hand experiences both with hurting other people's feelings and then apologizing or not, just like we all have that experience with being wronged and either getting or not getting an apology.
posted by clockzero at 1:29 PM on November 4, 2015 [2 favorites]

Area Man - yeah, i try to not say that for those reasons. intent isn't a magic salve - if the damage is done, the damage is done.
posted by nadawi at 1:31 PM on November 4, 2015

But this parenting tactic is so common that I must be wrong. Does this approach work?

We use a pattern of "i'm sorry, it was wrong because..., in the future..., do you accept...". It helps generate a little thought about why an apology might be needed here and how behavior can be changed in a positive directly (e.g. in the future i won't do X isn't as acceptable to me as in the future i will do some positive act that's not simply not-X). I also hope I'm teaching my son he has agency, self-control, and responsibility (because I encourage him to go beyond something superficial and not well-meant). I do it too when I screw up which shows him adults aren't perfect. And there have been times when he or I have said I don't accept your apology because we were still too angry or upset and that's fine too; eventually, we resolved it (that or he'll be resolving it years from now in therapy, with a partner/friend, his own kids).
posted by kokaku at 1:32 PM on November 4, 2015 [2 favorites]

They're aping the wiki-How voice of authority that says "there is a proper way to do things in general." However, the piece isn't taking down that silly presumption, but using it inversely: each item "should" be aspired to in the opposite direction, as if it's never appropriate to try to assuage someone's anger towards you, as if it's despicable to change faiths in search of atonement, etc. etc. etc.
posted by Taft at 1:33 PM on November 4, 2015 [2 favorites]

Learning the rote script doesn't cultivate empathy; instead, it rewards fake apologies and teaches kids that phony regret is a get-out-of-jail free card, as someone above out it.

That is, if the fake apology is accepted. Sometimes going through the steps (and by doing so, being a consistent parent) is enough for reasons emjaybee mentioned. Sometimes all a parent has energy for is the rote apology script. But if you do have the time and energy, wringing out a real apology can happen. With little people, there might be a lot of lashing out before they are annoyed or calm down enough to put more care into their apology, but it can happen. (I write this from first hand experience, as the father of a 4 year old who gets his fair share of "sit and think about what you did" time-outs, that usually result in a more calm little person sounding pretty sincere.)
posted by filthy light thief at 1:35 PM on November 4, 2015 [2 favorites]

You're curious about whether wronging someone and then giving an apology can be functionally identical to having been wronged and then receiving an apology? I find it hard to believe that someone could be unsure about the difference. We all have lots of first-hand experiences both with hurting other people's feelings and then apologizing or not, just like we all have that experience with being wronged and either getting or not getting an apology.

I curious about owing. Owing apologies and owing forgiveness. I was just turning the wording around to see if it still made sense. I think it does. I think you disagree. That's a-ok.
posted by josher71 at 1:35 PM on November 4, 2015 [4 favorites]

I'm curious -- what about that piece made you feel "emotionally manipulated"? ('Cause that sounds more like a you problem than a problem with the piece.)

This sounds like a totally missed opportunity for a fully applicable 'I'm sorry you feel that way'.
posted by FatherDagon at 1:37 PM on November 4, 2015

I agree with what the other parents are saying, but I'll also note that there is some value in kids learning how to give insincere apologies. We all have to do it sometimes to keep the social peace or stave off the anger of those who have power over us such as bosses, co-workers, and teachers.
posted by Area Man at 1:37 PM on November 4, 2015 [7 favorites]

people not finding the-toast funny always makes it more hilarious to me.

So much. And not simply disliking it personally, but INSISTING it isn't funny, and believing others are WRONG for thinking so.
posted by peep at 1:38 PM on November 4, 2015 [10 favorites]

I, for one, am delighted to see the 'I hurt you now you owe me an apology' fuckery get the Ortberg treatment it so richly deserves. *spits*
posted by Space Kitty at 1:44 PM on November 4, 2015 [9 favorites]

> people not finding the-toast funny always makes it more hilarious to me.

> So much. And not simply disliking it personally, but INSISTING it isn't funny, and believing others are WRONG for thinking so.

I can imagine it as a reaction to seeing other people react positively to the thing, and possibly the point. Clearly, every one else is wrong, or they're in on some joke that I don't understand.

Written satire can be hard to grok, especially if you can't see the sarcastic humor in the situation.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:46 PM on November 4, 2015

Basically I don't like that it caricatures a type of serial-narcissist and invites the reader to hate people or actions that vaguely resemble that caricature. This is where terms like hipster come from -- laziness in reading a specific situation in favor of pointing to a meme and reducing something to that meme.
posted by Taft at 1:48 PM on November 4, 2015

"Anatomy of An Apology: 1) I’m sorry 2) Here’s my understanding of how I hurt you 3) I will never do this again"

I think it works better in this order:

1) I did X
2) this is why X was wrong / hurt you
3) I apologize and will not do X again (better: here's my plan to make sure X never happens again)
4) [if applicable] here is my plan to undo the damage that was done
posted by straight at 1:48 PM on November 4, 2015 [7 favorites]

I can imagine it as a reaction to seeing other people react positively to the thing, and possibly the point. Clearly, every one else is wrong, or they're in on some joke that I don't understand.

Written satire can be hard to grok, especially if you can't see the sarcastic humor in the situation.

I look forward to the day when "Ooooooh, that's from The Toast" is as quick a signal of dry, biting sarcasm as "Ooooh, that's from the Onion" is for parody news.
posted by verb at 1:48 PM on November 4, 2015 [2 favorites]

Thanks, all, for helping me understand the parenting dynamics behind the ritual apologies. I especially like the part about having the kid articulate why an apology is needed, etc.
posted by carmicha at 1:50 PM on November 4, 2015 [1 favorite]

Learning the rote script doesn't cultivate empathy; instead, it rewards fake apologies and teaches kids that phony regret is a get-out-of-jail free card, as someone above out it.

For non-sociopaths, the problem often seems to be ignorance or denial of the harm done. I think most people are at least a little less likely to do something again if they can articulate how exactly someone was harmed by what they did. You can't fake that.
posted by straight at 1:53 PM on November 4, 2015 [3 favorites]

You are all so not Canadian. Here is how you apologize: Constantly and for everything until the word sorry merges with things like "Excuse me", "Ouch! You stepped on my foot" and "I had a three-way with your parents during the Leaf's game".
posted by srboisvert at 1:55 PM on November 4, 2015 [7 favorites]

I curious about owing. Owing apologies and owing forgiveness. I was just turning the wording around to see if it still made sense. I think it does. I think you disagree. That's a-ok.

Oh, I think I might have misunderstood you. I'm sorry if I made you feel bad.
posted by clockzero at 1:56 PM on November 4, 2015

Apology accepted.
posted by josher71 at 2:01 PM on November 4, 2015

You are all so not Canadian. Here is how you apologize: Constantly and for everything until the word sorry merges with things like "Excuse me", "Ouch! You stepped on my foot" and "I had a three-way with your parents during the Leaf's game".

Whyyyy would I apologize for that? Their relationship needs some work, and I think it was a sexually emancipatory experience, especially for your dad
posted by clockzero at 2:01 PM on November 4, 2015 [6 favorites]

I think people are reading a lot into this piece. It's about shitty apologies. Those happen! Yeah we've all been in situations where we've felt like we've apologized enough and don't need to grovel and beg forgiveness, or that we didn't need to apologize at all, but this piece really isn't going into specifics, guys. It's not talking to you, specifically, about that time someone didn't think your apology was good enough.
posted by Hoopo at 2:14 PM on November 4, 2015 [5 favorites]

For me, mushy vegetables with rocks usually does the trick.
posted by clavdivs at 2:20 PM on November 4, 2015

One thing that makes the piece a bit confusing is that some of the entries are clearly pointed at herself, while others seem more to point at others. To over-simplify a bit, the ones about worrying *too much* about how others feel are self-directed, while the ones about not worrying at all about how others feel are outward-directed.

But these kind of cut in opposite directions, especially in being interspersed. The first category gives the piece the feeling of 'aren't we such fuckups, Jesus we all need more therapy' - basically cultivating empathy. This spirit kind of rubs off on the second category, but the spirit there is so often 'this is actively abusive and 100% asshole behavior' (with a kind of feminist lilt to it) that there was, to me, some cognitive dissonance about exactly how empathetic and forgiving we're meant to be toward this second category.
posted by goodnight to the rock n roll era at 2:23 PM on November 4, 2015 [4 favorites]

Daniel Tiger has a song for this. "Saying 'I'm sorry,' is the first step. Then, 'How can I help?'"

I watched it with my son. Made me reflect on my apologies and if I wasn't ready to offer help, was I really sorry?

I began reading this not knowing it was sarcasm? and it triggered immediate anxiety. The thought someone might really think this is okay was just terrifying.
posted by HMSSM at 2:27 PM on November 4, 2015 [2 favorites]

Look, some of us who grew up in the 80s have a problem with taking full responsibility and giving a sincere apology. We saw what happened to Captain Needa.
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:27 PM on November 4, 2015 [5 favorites]

On the owing/not-owing thing, I think it's actually quite a good way of putting the distinction between the not-okay demand for forgiveness and the perfectly-acceptable expectation of an apology. Apologising is an obligation, if you've really done something wrong (although obviously not if you're just haunted by a desperate sense that someone, somewhere doesn't approve of you and maybe being sorry for being alive will fix it). You shouldn't harm other people and, if you do, you owe them your best attempt at undoing the harm or at least acknowledging it. But forgiving someone who harmed you isn't an obligation, only a choice you are free to make if you want - it's not something the person who harmed you has a right to expect, parallel to your right to expect an apology from them. Hence the unpleasantness of people aggressively demanding forgiveness because their guilt is somehow your problem. Of course, the Christian theory is that you do have an obligation to forgive, but my understanding is that you are supposed to owe that to God and not to the person who wronged you - they still have no right to demand forgiveness in the Christian scheme. It's like an obligation to give to charity - you should give to charities, in the Christian worldview, but it would be bizarre if charities took that as justification for simply breaking into your house and taking all your cash. Unfortunately the Christian argument can easily be turned into the self-serving and incoherent "you owe me forgiveness" but I think this is a mistake even within the Christian frame of reference.
posted by Aravis76 at 2:32 PM on November 4, 2015 [5 favorites]

".... because you're responsible for how other people feel ...."

Nope

oh, wait...satire...
posted by HuronBob at 3:27 PM on November 4, 2015 [3 favorites]

If you overapologize for unimportant things, try saying thanks instead. Not "Sorry for the typo in that memo," but "Thanks for catching that typo." The karmic balance is the same, but instead of being driven apart by an infraction you're brought together by a small favor.

Only for small things, obviously, but if you're a chronic overapologizer that's most of them.
posted by echo target at 3:30 PM on November 4, 2015 [14 favorites]

Whyyyy would I apologize for that? Their relationship needs some work, and I think it was a sexually emancipatory experience, especially for your dad

WTF are you doing stepping on my Dad's foot?
posted by srboisvert at 3:40 PM on November 4, 2015

WTF are you doing stepping on my Dad's foot?

   Joke

|---------|
|         |
|         | <-- Your head
|         |
|         |
posted by Talez at 3:43 PM on November 4, 2015

Ironic...
posted by kmz at 4:14 PM on November 4, 2015 [1 favorite]

But these kind of cut in opposite directions, especially in being interspersed.

I took that to be the point. It's very difficult to get apologies right, because you end up either taking on too much responsibility for others' feelings or too little, and in trying to fix this you'll probably overcorrect in the other direction.

Both types of error might stem from the idea that "Everyone has to like you"—so if they don't, then either you aren't apologetic enough, or they aren't important enough to count as "everyone." Getting apologies right involves balancing their worth as a person with your own, and not sacrificing either of your needs for the other.

On the other hand, screw it, just be a hermit. It's easier. Wild animals never ask for an apology.
posted by Rangi at 4:43 PM on November 4, 2015 [2 favorites]

But this parenting tactic is so common that I must be wrong. Does this approach work?

We use a pattern of "i'm sorry, it was wrong because..., in the future..., do you accept...".

This is exactly the approach to apologies that was outlined in my interpersonal communications textbook. Qualifying words (if, but) and passive phrasing were indicated as ineffective and potentially harmful to the health of a relationship.
posted by palomar at 5:29 PM on November 4, 2015 [1 favorite]

I took that to be the point. It's very difficult to get apologies right, because you end up either taking on too much responsibility for others' feelings or too little, and in trying to fix this you'll probably overcorrect in the other direction.

Sorry, I was a bit unclear there. What I meant is that they seem to cut in opposite directions in terms of how we're supposed to read them and relate to them. The self-directed ones we're clearly supposed to identify with, to think "Fuck, too real, I/we all have been there." But the other-directed ones are often blatantly manipulative and shitty enough that it's not clear that we're supposed to identify with or be forgiving toward them much at all. Rather, we're supposed to identify more with the receiving end of them, and if anything, to think "damn that was not okay, I should not have tolerated that."
posted by goodnight to the rock n roll era at 5:29 PM on November 4, 2015

I don't know about forced reflexive apology-making as a parenting tactic, but I do know that "I don't believe in apologies. What's done is done and can't be undone" is a terrible way to go.
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:52 PM on November 4, 2015 [1 favorite]

God, when did we start thinking about apologies in a such a twisted way? Used to be someone would tell me, "I'm sorry if you were upset by what happened" in a grave-ish voice and I wouldn't think twice about it, I was at peace and free to move on with my life. Now I have to waste my precious emotional energy thinking they're an asshole and they don't really care how I feel, now I have to have another fucking problem. Why? Why is it so important to know that that person feels very bad inside and commits to not doing that thing I don't like, ever, and agrees that until they say precisely the right words to prove it, we're going to have a problem. It's so unpleasant, and it just encourages this shitty dichotomy where unless you're incredibly seriously regretful about whatever, you're not really sorry and you might as well not bother pretending, so let's all just slowly descend into hellish resentment and dysfunctional social climate. When actually, being merely somewhat sorry is not only a more realistic standard but perfectly adequate for many social situations. Give it, take it, feel pretty OK, offend and take offence again tomorrow.
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 9:24 PM on November 4, 2015 [7 favorites]

The first paragraph of this is exactly why I am super apologetic at work.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:49 PM on November 4, 2015

I'm sorry I read this thread.
posted by axiom at 10:54 PM on November 4, 2015

two or three cars parked under the stars, ideally someone receiving any sort of apology would take it in the best possible light without scrutiny and it would be those concerned to make their apologies genuine (or those teaching children how to apologize) who would be paying attention to these kinds of guidelines.

In practice, we sometimes do have to evaluate whether we are being taken advantage of by someone who is insincere and intends no real apology or amendment of life, but I hope your life is such that you can indeed continue to assume the best of people who say they're sorry.

May all your casual apologies be sufficient and all your occasions for forgiveness trivial.
posted by straight at 11:17 PM on November 4, 2015 [2 favorites]

Yeah, I suppose I admit my hopes and dreams re apology culture aren't the healthiest. I tend to avoid confronting issues as long as possible and am just more comfortable shutting down interpersonal strife at all costs. When it works, it's absolutely ideal. But it certainly doesn't always work.
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 11:54 PM on November 4, 2015

She missed the best (i.e., worst): Always ask to hug it out after an apology.

Or the extended version: "I'm sorry I did this horrible thing I hope it didn't jeopardize our friendship can I have a hug?"
posted by kanewai at 1:09 AM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

This thread has completely destroyed my irony meter.
posted by Etrigan at 1:11 AM on November 5, 2015 [2 favorites]

I always go for the passive aggressive version: "I regret that you chose to get offended by this."
posted by theorique at 5:53 AM on November 5, 2015

She missed the best (i.e., worst): Always ask to hug it out after an apology.

Can't think about "hug it out" without thinking of Ari Gold.
posted by theorique at 5:54 AM on November 5, 2015

her: I hurt people when I do that
me: then don't do that
posted by judson at 6:58 AM on November 5, 2015

Why? Why is it so important to know that that person feels very bad inside and commits to not doing that thing I don't like, ever, and agrees that until they say precisely the right words to prove it, we're going to have a problem.

because we now know that there is no God, which means there is no afterlife, no eternal hell for the cruel, the unkind, the passive aggressive, the wrong, the evil, bad, Republicans, etc, which means that all justice must now be sorted out here in the now in adherence with strict rules of decorum, politeness etc.
posted by philip-random at 8:50 AM on November 5, 2015 [2 favorites]

It's so unpleasant, and it just encourages this shitty dichotomy where unless you're incredibly seriously regretful about whatever, you're not really sorry and you might as well not bother pretending, so let's all just slowly descend into hellish resentment and dysfunctional social climate.

This just seems to be the spirit of the times, especially on the Internet and maybe especially on MetaFilter.

The common view on most topics and behaviors these days seems to be that either you're 100% right or you're 100% wrong.
posted by Sangermaine at 9:25 AM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]

There are shitty ways to apologize and shitty ways to receive apologies, and it's okay to probe both of these things, especially if you possess Ortbergian levels of trenchantness.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:40 AM on November 5, 2015 [1 favorite]