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November 9, 2015 2:51 AM Subscribe
certain football clubs have become symbols of football hipsterdom and many of them seem to have a lot in common: an almost blanket lack of on-field success, a history of anti-establishmentarianism, the status of plucky underdog, a nice away shirtThe Grauniad's regular football column, Joy of Six, presents hipsters' favourite football clubs.
Come on Dulwich Hamlet! "Ooh we're Dulwich Hamlet / to be or not to be? / We're something fuckin' rotten / we're Denmark Hill's FC / our Dad 'e was the King yeah / our mum's wif uncle Claude / our girlfriend's gonna drown 'erself / before we've even scored! WHO ARE WE? WHO ARE WE? [holds up skull] Alas poor Yorick, Alas poor Yorick, You're not laughin' any more! You're not la-a-fi-in a-ny more!", [etc].
posted by the quidnunc kid at 3:38 AM on November 9, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by the quidnunc kid at 3:38 AM on November 9, 2015 [20 favorites]
And you wonder why I voted #1 quidnunc kid. Wonder no more!
posted by briank at 3:42 AM on November 9, 2015
posted by briank at 3:42 AM on November 9, 2015
PBR is the drink of American hipsters, Samizdata.
I actually know a Dulwich Hamlet fan. He's supported them far longer than they've been a hipster club. He keeps me up to date with the latest results.
posted by salmacis at 3:45 AM on November 9, 2015
I actually know a Dulwich Hamlet fan. He's supported them far longer than they've been a hipster club. He keeps me up to date with the latest results.
posted by salmacis at 3:45 AM on November 9, 2015
salmacis: "PBR is the drink of American hipsters, Samizdata.
I actually know a Dulwich Hamlet fan. He's supported them far longer than they've been a hipster club. He keeps me up to date with the latest results."
Quite aware of that fact. Was taking the piss with common misconceptions. So there's that. Cheers though.
(Yes, I am American before you ask.)
posted by Samizdata at 4:29 AM on November 9, 2015
I actually know a Dulwich Hamlet fan. He's supported them far longer than they've been a hipster club. He keeps me up to date with the latest results."
Quite aware of that fact. Was taking the piss with common misconceptions. So there's that. Cheers though.
(Yes, I am American before you ask.)
posted by Samizdata at 4:29 AM on November 9, 2015
In the U.S., it's much easier. If someone has a favo(u)rite British football club, odds are exceedingly good that they are a hipster.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:18 AM on November 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:18 AM on November 9, 2015 [4 favorites]
This hipster word has lost all hipster meaning especially hipster since hipster it hipster keeps hipster changing hipster.
posted by clvrmnky at 5:21 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by clvrmnky at 5:21 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
That's the nature of hipsterdom, though. As soon as any specific affectation becomes widely recognized enough to be absorbed into the "hipster" stereotype, the hipster discards it and adopts a new, more avant-garde affectation. Hipsterdom isn't any one set of interests—it's a general attitude of studied, deliberate iconoclasm, which ironically becomes its own sort of conformity.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:25 AM on November 9, 2015
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:25 AM on November 9, 2015
Small wonder, then, that many of the monotonously predictable and sneery comments that appeared below a recent Observer feature on the club (yes, of course there’s been a Observer feature on the club) dismissed all concerned as a shower of bandwagon-jumping “hipster wankers”. It seems such is the price one must pay these days for the very heinous crime of enjoying yourself and having a good time at the football.Or indeed the price of getting an article about it published in the Guardian. When even articles about "hipster football clubs" conclude with a complaint about complaints about hipsters, it's surely a sign that the term has long, long ago used up any minimal meaning or value it might have had, and we desperately need just to leave people alone to enjoy the things they enjoy.
posted by howfar at 5:35 AM on November 9, 2015
Oooh, Fortinbras is magic
He wears a magic hat!
And when he saw the Danish crown
He said "I'm 'aving that!"
Incest subtext!
You've got an incest subtext!
Incest suuubtext!
You've got an incest subtext!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:39 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
He wears a magic hat!
And when he saw the Danish crown
He said "I'm 'aving that!"
Incest subtext!
You've got an incest subtext!
Incest suuubtext!
You've got an incest subtext!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:39 AM on November 9, 2015 [2 favorites]
My comment, vis à vis "hipster" is that this modern notion of the cool hunter leaving us the carcass of culture it has already picked over is not how the word has always been used.
I prefer to think of it (now) as how the Romans referred to the Picts. Much discussed and certain they were just a bit more North. And yet, every village they visited was sure those Picts they were talking about were just over the next hill.
If you have identified a hipster, you are probably incorrect.
Both the nomenclature and the received culture stories keep moving, and the Holy Post-Roman Empire is never quite sure where to search next.
Football? Yeah. We are really trying too hard. I'm not sure these are the stones we ought to be pulling up for this search for homo hipsterus.
posted by clvrmnky at 6:00 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I prefer to think of it (now) as how the Romans referred to the Picts. Much discussed and certain they were just a bit more North. And yet, every village they visited was sure those Picts they were talking about were just over the next hill.
If you have identified a hipster, you are probably incorrect.
Both the nomenclature and the received culture stories keep moving, and the Holy Post-Roman Empire is never quite sure where to search next.
Football? Yeah. We are really trying too hard. I'm not sure these are the stones we ought to be pulling up for this search for homo hipsterus.
posted by clvrmnky at 6:00 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
This hipster word has lost all hipster meaning especially hipster since hipster it hipster keeps hipster changing hipster.
I can finally see thefnords hipsters.
posted by Strange Interlude at 6:07 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
I can finally see the
posted by Strange Interlude at 6:07 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
When your sister's gone mad
'Cos her boyfriend's a cad,
That's Laertes!
With yer own poisoned sword
In Act V you are floored
That's Laertes!
posted by the quidnunc kid at 6:19 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
'Cos her boyfriend's a cad,
That's Laertes!
With yer own poisoned sword
In Act V you are floored
That's Laertes!
posted by the quidnunc kid at 6:19 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
This hipster word has lost all hipster meaning especially hipster since hipster it hipster keeps hipster changing hipster.
Much in the way that “yuppie” is no longer a word because everyone is like that now, the word “hipster” is meaningless because it describes a set of attributes which are now in the cultural mainstream. (A hipster was, essentially, a cultural capitalist, in the sense of being someone who trades in cultural capital. Nowadays everyone's a cultural capitalist, even if on the scale that an elderly couple who get $50 in dividends from their modest shareholding each year are financial capitalists.)
The turning point was probably when “hipster” merged with/assimilated “bro”.
posted by acb at 6:19 AM on November 9, 2015
Much in the way that “yuppie” is no longer a word because everyone is like that now, the word “hipster” is meaningless because it describes a set of attributes which are now in the cultural mainstream. (A hipster was, essentially, a cultural capitalist, in the sense of being someone who trades in cultural capital. Nowadays everyone's a cultural capitalist, even if on the scale that an elderly couple who get $50 in dividends from their modest shareholding each year are financial capitalists.)
The turning point was probably when “hipster” merged with/assimilated “bro”.
posted by acb at 6:19 AM on November 9, 2015
In the U.S., it's much easier. If someone has a favo(u)rite British football club, odds are exceedingly good that they are a hipster.
Q: What's an Australian intellectual?
A: Someone who barracks for Man U/Arsenal rather than Collingwood/Carlton
On a tangent: are there any Australian Rules clubs favoured by the local hipsters/coolsies? (The Fitzroy VFL club perhaps?)
posted by acb at 6:24 AM on November 9, 2015
Q: What's an Australian intellectual?
A: Someone who barracks for Man U/Arsenal rather than Collingwood/Carlton
On a tangent: are there any Australian Rules clubs favoured by the local hipsters/coolsies? (The Fitzroy VFL club perhaps?)
posted by acb at 6:24 AM on November 9, 2015
Stoke City is the most hipster club in the world.
posted by josher71 at 7:16 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by josher71 at 7:16 AM on November 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
So you're saying, he liked Dulwich before they were cool?
Precisely! Glad somebody noticed. It should be said though that he is one of the least hipster-like people you could imagine.
posted by salmacis at 8:23 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Precisely! Glad somebody noticed. It should be said though that he is one of the least hipster-like people you could imagine.
posted by salmacis at 8:23 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Reading the article, I initially thought they were talking about Dunwich Town FC.
Come on, you Shoggoths!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:47 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Come on, you Shoggoths!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:47 AM on November 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
Millennials are hipster
posted by Apocryphon at 10:32 AM on November 9, 2015
posted by Apocryphon at 10:32 AM on November 9, 2015
PBR is the drink of American hipsters, Samizdata.
I thought we were moving on to Hamms!? Is PBR cool again now?
Crap - I need to go restock my fridge! I should pick up some Rolling Rock too, as that's bound to come back as a hipster beer too.
posted by mayonnaises at 11:51 AM on November 9, 2015
I thought we were moving on to Hamms!? Is PBR cool again now?
Crap - I need to go restock my fridge! I should pick up some Rolling Rock too, as that's bound to come back as a hipster beer too.
posted by mayonnaises at 11:51 AM on November 9, 2015
Snake people are horse people? That doesn't make any sense
posted by en forme de poire at 11:51 AM on November 9, 2015
posted by en forme de poire at 11:51 AM on November 9, 2015
Fuck the Timbers. After last night's semi-final where The USA's most popular soccer team went down in game 2 on penalty kicks to Dallas and otherwise would have played either Cascadia rival for the western conference final, which would have surely been the biggest game in the history of MLS, I can't even look at those stupid fans with their dumbass lumberjack beards.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 1:01 PM on November 9, 2015
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 1:01 PM on November 9, 2015
Duh, everyone knows that Rainier is on the upswing because of Netflix.
But we might have reached peak Rainier already; it's available in affluent foreign markets now.
posted by clvrmnky at 1:40 PM on November 9, 2015
But we might have reached peak Rainier already; it's available in affluent foreign markets now.
posted by clvrmnky at 1:40 PM on November 9, 2015
Partick Thistle, everybody. They even have an ironic mascot designed by David Shringley. In a place where everything is a about Rangers vs Celtic (even now), the Jags keep on being the Jags and you can see the match if you jump up & down the canalside footpath.
posted by kariebookish at 3:59 AM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by kariebookish at 3:59 AM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
I would have thought Arsenal. At least in the US.
posted by persona au gratin at 7:41 AM on November 10, 2015
posted by persona au gratin at 7:41 AM on November 10, 2015
Why Arsenal?
posted by Apocryphon at 11:56 AM on November 10, 2015
posted by Apocryphon at 11:56 AM on November 10, 2015
Not sure why no one believes me.
posted by josher71 at 3:15 PM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by josher71 at 3:15 PM on November 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
>This hipster word has lost all hipster meaning
>>Much in the way that “yuppie” is no longer a word because everyone is like that now, the word “hipster” is meaningless because it describes a set of attributes which are now in the cultural mainstream
The concept of a 'football hipster' definitely has meaning though, at least within the UK, even though it doesn't map completely towards the traditional definition/stereotypes of a hipster.
It would be used pejoratively to describe someone who doesn't follow their local team, but also doesn't follow one of the big, successful English clubs. Someone who follows a smaller team, from outside England, probably based on their style of play or philosophy, not their success. Not Barcelona or PSG or Bayern. But Athletic Bilbao or Dortmund (a few years ago, before they won the league). A team with a young manager using interesting tactics, or a team like St Pauli with a strong left-wing identity. [By analogy, is this like someone being into bands that no-one else has heard of?]. It could also be used to describe someone who is overly concerned with the cerebral side of the game, with tactics invented in Russia or positions with Italian names. A know-it-all.
To my mind, it's a third stage in the evolution of English football fandom. You started with local teams that were (literally) the team of workers at a particular factory or industry (e.g. Arsenal, Manchester United). They were intrinsically linked to a particular location, usually the great 19th century industrial towns. People went to the game and saw the game live and therefore supported a local team.
Then the second stage is the rise of interest outside traditional areas. More middle-class people start watching football, and the games are on TV. So you get a huge fanbase from areas without teams, who are watching the successful teams on TV but not necessarily seeing the games live.
Then thirdly you have a reaction to that, people who don't want to jump on a bandwagon of supporting the most successful teams, but also don't necessarily have a local team. People who might read about teams and about the theory of the sport, people who can watch whatever team they like thanks to the internet and satellite TV. People who maybe don't like the racist, sexist, homophobic and right-wing nature of much mainstream football.
And then the first group doesn't like the second or third groups, and calls the first 'glory hunters' and the second 'hipsters', and here we are.
On the article itself (!), I'm not convinced by all of Baz's examples. St Pauli and Dulwich certainly qualify, as they have significant fan-bases who are attracted for political reasons. Both clubs being way more popular than their results suggest. The other European clubs, I don't know. They seem more like traditional clubs with strong community solidarity, and I'm not sure hipsters have really adopted them to the same extent. (No idea about Portland...).
posted by Pink Frost at 4:45 PM on November 10, 2015
>>Much in the way that “yuppie” is no longer a word because everyone is like that now, the word “hipster” is meaningless because it describes a set of attributes which are now in the cultural mainstream
The concept of a 'football hipster' definitely has meaning though, at least within the UK, even though it doesn't map completely towards the traditional definition/stereotypes of a hipster.
It would be used pejoratively to describe someone who doesn't follow their local team, but also doesn't follow one of the big, successful English clubs. Someone who follows a smaller team, from outside England, probably based on their style of play or philosophy, not their success. Not Barcelona or PSG or Bayern. But Athletic Bilbao or Dortmund (a few years ago, before they won the league). A team with a young manager using interesting tactics, or a team like St Pauli with a strong left-wing identity. [By analogy, is this like someone being into bands that no-one else has heard of?]. It could also be used to describe someone who is overly concerned with the cerebral side of the game, with tactics invented in Russia or positions with Italian names. A know-it-all.
To my mind, it's a third stage in the evolution of English football fandom. You started with local teams that were (literally) the team of workers at a particular factory or industry (e.g. Arsenal, Manchester United). They were intrinsically linked to a particular location, usually the great 19th century industrial towns. People went to the game and saw the game live and therefore supported a local team.
Then the second stage is the rise of interest outside traditional areas. More middle-class people start watching football, and the games are on TV. So you get a huge fanbase from areas without teams, who are watching the successful teams on TV but not necessarily seeing the games live.
Then thirdly you have a reaction to that, people who don't want to jump on a bandwagon of supporting the most successful teams, but also don't necessarily have a local team. People who might read about teams and about the theory of the sport, people who can watch whatever team they like thanks to the internet and satellite TV. People who maybe don't like the racist, sexist, homophobic and right-wing nature of much mainstream football.
And then the first group doesn't like the second or third groups, and calls the first 'glory hunters' and the second 'hipsters', and here we are.
On the article itself (!), I'm not convinced by all of Baz's examples. St Pauli and Dulwich certainly qualify, as they have significant fan-bases who are attracted for political reasons. Both clubs being way more popular than their results suggest. The other European clubs, I don't know. They seem more like traditional clubs with strong community solidarity, and I'm not sure hipsters have really adopted them to the same extent. (No idea about Portland...).
posted by Pink Frost at 4:45 PM on November 10, 2015
>Stoke City is the most hipster club in the world.
josher71 - I feel like if I don't ask I'll never know: why?
I'm interested in your answer because while I've been playing the sport for 30 years here in the U.S. (so I'm an old hipster?), It's only last year that I got the casual multimedia access to European clubs that I dreamed of having as a boy.
So, time to pick a favorite EPL side, which in itself is a surreal exercise. I mean, team loyalties are generally ingrained from youth, so picking a favorite team feels kind of like picking a favorite color as an adult - why bother, they're all such fun to look at and combine in such interesting ways!
Anyway, in the spirit of having a rooting interest, and being a classic US-ian FanOfTheUnderdog and member of the AntiBandwagonBrigade, I chose Stoke City, because I surf and I identify with the word stoke.
Now I'm as fully invested in Stoke as I have been with any Red Sox team. Which is not saying much as I've not kept up since the days of yore when my brother and I would pitch innings to each other in the backyard as Mike Torres and Dennis Eckersley (cultural capitalism FTW!). But I love to see a Crouch header in the back of the net, and am warming up to Shaqiri; I miss Begovic, but also don't know where we'd be without Butland.
So, have I proved the rule and thus can claim the mantle of TrulyHip, or have I in this one small piece of my being achieved the hipster nirvana of HipButNotAHipster?
Or some other third thing?
posted by ElGuapo at 11:26 AM on November 13, 2015
josher71 - I feel like if I don't ask I'll never know: why?
I'm interested in your answer because while I've been playing the sport for 30 years here in the U.S. (so I'm an old hipster?), It's only last year that I got the casual multimedia access to European clubs that I dreamed of having as a boy.
So, time to pick a favorite EPL side, which in itself is a surreal exercise. I mean, team loyalties are generally ingrained from youth, so picking a favorite team feels kind of like picking a favorite color as an adult - why bother, they're all such fun to look at and combine in such interesting ways!
Anyway, in the spirit of having a rooting interest, and being a classic US-ian FanOfTheUnderdog and member of the AntiBandwagonBrigade, I chose Stoke City, because I surf and I identify with the word stoke.
Now I'm as fully invested in Stoke as I have been with any Red Sox team. Which is not saying much as I've not kept up since the days of yore when my brother and I would pitch innings to each other in the backyard as Mike Torres and Dennis Eckersley (cultural capitalism FTW!). But I love to see a Crouch header in the back of the net, and am warming up to Shaqiri; I miss Begovic, but also don't know where we'd be without Butland.
So, have I proved the rule and thus can claim the mantle of TrulyHip, or have I in this one small piece of my being achieved the hipster nirvana of HipButNotAHipster?
Or some other third thing?
posted by ElGuapo at 11:26 AM on November 13, 2015
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Or has PBR sold out and gone mainstream?
looks confused
posted by Samizdata at 3:28 AM on November 9, 2015