Because, well, look at Jessica.
November 23, 2015 10:33 AM Subscribe
When You’re Just Drawn That Way: Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Interestingly enough, the only two women to comment on/protest this objectification are the two women explicitly drawn to be objectified sex symbols: Betty Boop and Jessica Rabbit.
I am grateful to the max.
posted by maryr at 11:55 AM on November 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by maryr at 11:55 AM on November 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
It's my favorite movie. It's such a towering technical achievement, with so many funny gags and so much to say about the movies and Los Angeles. For years the opening "Maroon Cartoon" theme was my ring tone and I loved the reactions I'd get - people were pretty sure it wasn't quite Looney Tunes but I don't think anyone ever identified it correctly without my telling them.
posted by town of cats at 12:18 PM on November 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by town of cats at 12:18 PM on November 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
This was my absolute favorite movie as a kind, and I love that I didn't see Chinatown until I was probably 30, and was shocked by how much of that plot WFRR is directly referencing.
posted by Navelgazer at 12:27 PM on November 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 12:27 PM on November 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
There's baloney in my slacks.
posted by Wolfdog at 12:38 PM on November 23, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 12:38 PM on November 23, 2015 [7 favorites]
Also, I love this movie, except for the excruciating "death" scene near the end of it.
posted by Wolfdog at 12:39 PM on November 23, 2015
posted by Wolfdog at 12:39 PM on November 23, 2015
Part of the movie's charm is the sheer amount of sweat and effort that had to be put into the visual effects. At the time, to convincingly show an animated character holding, say, a real-life gun required the building of complicated puppet armatures, over which the character would then be drawn. Nowadays, the gun would just be photorealistically rendered in CGI. Much easier, but somehow less authentic and sincere.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:47 PM on November 23, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:47 PM on November 23, 2015 [13 favorites]
If I recall correctly from the time, the toughest effect to pull off was when Jessica does that shine-thing on Marvin Acme's head during "Why Don't You Do Right".
posted by Navelgazer at 12:51 PM on November 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 12:51 PM on November 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
It sounds like animation director Richard Williams ought to have a good share of the credit for the way the movie turned out, based on this article's description of the production process. I wonder if he should have gotten better billing, or even a co-director credit.
And I must quote one of my favorite movie jokes of all time:
Eddie Valiant: You mean you could've taken your hand out of that cuff at any time?
Roger Rabbit: No, not at any time, only when it was funny.
posted by Flexagon at 12:51 PM on November 23, 2015 [35 favorites]
And I must quote one of my favorite movie jokes of all time:
Eddie Valiant: You mean you could've taken your hand out of that cuff at any time?
Roger Rabbit: No, not at any time, only when it was funny.
posted by Flexagon at 12:51 PM on November 23, 2015 [35 favorites]
I had the weird experience of being blown away by parts of the film (Daffy vs. Donald was pretty great) and finding the overall movie to be, well, boring. Roger Rabbit is a weak imitation of early-era Daffy. Jessica is slightly more interesting because she's Kathleen Turner trapped in a sexy cartoon suit and Kathleen Turner is always awesome. Hoskins is acting to empty air, and it shows.
I love cartoons, especially Warner Brothers stuff, but the idea of Toons as People just didn't grab me. Or rather, it did at first, then became less appealing on rewatch. Separated from their stories, cartoon characters seem less themselves, less interesting.
posted by emjaybee at 1:01 PM on November 23, 2015
I love cartoons, especially Warner Brothers stuff, but the idea of Toons as People just didn't grab me. Or rather, it did at first, then became less appealing on rewatch. Separated from their stories, cartoon characters seem less themselves, less interesting.
posted by emjaybee at 1:01 PM on November 23, 2015
There's baloney. In my slacks.
FTFY
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:11 PM on November 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
FTFY
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:11 PM on November 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
Hoskins is acting to empty air, and it shows.
Interesting; I always thought he did an amazingly good job, considering the acting circumstances.
Then again, I was one of those people who went around for weeks after seeing the movie saying "Pl-l-l-l-lease, Eddie!"
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:11 PM on November 23, 2015 [9 favorites]
Interesting; I always thought he did an amazingly good job, considering the acting circumstances.
Then again, I was one of those people who went around for weeks after seeing the movie saying "Pl-l-l-l-lease, Eddie!"
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:11 PM on November 23, 2015 [9 favorites]
Seconded; Hoskins does a superb job of pulling it off, probably one of the few actors that could.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 1:14 PM on November 23, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 1:14 PM on November 23, 2015 [10 favorites]
Okay, this calls for a rewatch. Such a great movie.
posted by likeatoaster at 1:17 PM on November 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by likeatoaster at 1:17 PM on November 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
If I recall correctly from the time, the toughest effect to pull off was when Jessica does that shine-thing on Marvin Acme's head during "Why Don't You Do Right".
I feel like I remember on the DVD extras them talking about the scene where they're in the backroom trying to get the handcuffs off. I don't know if it was the hardest bit or anything, but they were talking about how the crate Roger's elbows were on was shaking because of the way Eddie was sawing away at the handcuffs, but even more challenging....ly the light was swinging overhead the whole time which, I mean, from an animation standpoint, damn.
They put so much effort into that movie. Honestly it's amazing, and one of my favorites.
posted by suddenly, and without warning, at 1:23 PM on November 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
I feel like I remember on the DVD extras them talking about the scene where they're in the backroom trying to get the handcuffs off. I don't know if it was the hardest bit or anything, but they were talking about how the crate Roger's elbows were on was shaking because of the way Eddie was sawing away at the handcuffs, but even more challenging....ly the light was swinging overhead the whole time which, I mean, from an animation standpoint, damn.
They put so much effort into that movie. Honestly it's amazing, and one of my favorites.
posted by suddenly, and without warning, at 1:23 PM on November 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
Shave and a haircut...
posted by billiebee at 1:25 PM on November 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by billiebee at 1:25 PM on November 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
TWO BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITS!
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:27 PM on November 23, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:27 PM on November 23, 2015 [19 favorites]
Having rewatched it lately: yes, Bob Hoskins is incredible in it, and it's his utter commitment and craft that drives the movie.
Christopher Lloyd is fun (and yes, clearly enjoying himself) but isn't as good at the physicality of the "interacting with toons" job. Most noticeably, there's at least two instances where, holding a trembling toon, it's obviously his arm doing the shaking rather than selling the illusion of the toon doing it. Compare to Hoskins holding Roger: it always feels like he's handling a living object.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 1:35 PM on November 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
Christopher Lloyd is fun (and yes, clearly enjoying himself) but isn't as good at the physicality of the "interacting with toons" job. Most noticeably, there's at least two instances where, holding a trembling toon, it's obviously his arm doing the shaking rather than selling the illusion of the toon doing it. Compare to Hoskins holding Roger: it always feels like he's handling a living object.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 1:35 PM on November 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
In case you were wondering how they moved drinks, cigars, etc. Robot mimic arms.
posted by Orange Pamplemousse at 1:52 PM on November 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Orange Pamplemousse at 1:52 PM on November 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
I also loved Joanna Cassidy, the person who ran the bar. She was tough as nails and was a great foil to Hoskins, and I also thought she really set the tone of the movie for the no-nonsense grit you had to deal with regarding ToonTown. Both Hoskins and Cassidy did exceptionally well in being totally committed and synergistic in their acting.
I also love heavily how many times this movie has been referred to in my American Studies and English classes, as commentary on the fight over LA's transportation history. Films that are very well crafted, with a solid historical backdrop of Californian history, is always heavily interesting to me, mostly because California is such a bizarre state in so many ways. Shame we don't see more of those!
posted by yueliang at 3:03 PM on November 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
I also love heavily how many times this movie has been referred to in my American Studies and English classes, as commentary on the fight over LA's transportation history. Films that are very well crafted, with a solid historical backdrop of Californian history, is always heavily interesting to me, mostly because California is such a bizarre state in so many ways. Shame we don't see more of those!
posted by yueliang at 3:03 PM on November 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
Oh, man, this movie is so wonderful. I'm going to go rewatch it too!
posted by graventy at 3:34 PM on November 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by graventy at 3:34 PM on November 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
I remember an interview with Bob Hoskins where he claimed that by the end of the filming, he was hallucinating, from the effort of interacting with imaginary characters.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 4:19 PM on November 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 4:19 PM on November 23, 2015 [6 favorites]
I remember the movie fondly because i was able to send my kid sister screaming from the room in terror just but breaking out a high pitched:
YOU REMEMBER ME, EDDIE?!
posted by Karaage at 4:22 PM on November 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
YOU REMEMBER ME, EDDIE?!
posted by Karaage at 4:22 PM on November 23, 2015 [4 favorites]
The entire Mari Ness "Disney Read-Watch" series (that started in April with Snow White, the fairy tale and the film) and covering every Disney animated film AND their source material (Yes, even The Black Cauldron), has been awesome, some of the best writing I've seen on tor.com, and there's a lot of good stuff on that site. And I was tickled when she covered Roger Rabbit, the movie AND the little-known, little-read book (which I HAD actually read myself... pulled out a discount pile because it looked like 'my kind of weird' in the early 1980s). I can hardly wait for her to cover the more recent movies.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:30 PM on November 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:30 PM on November 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
This is currently up on US Netflix, if anyone's itching for a rewatch after reading this article.
posted by flatluigi at 4:53 PM on November 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by flatluigi at 4:53 PM on November 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
ok did nobody else watch this movie as a child and get their very first existential crisis from the the deaths of the weasels and Doom and then spend the next few weeks haunted by those screams while contemplating the brevity and futility of their own lives?
or was that just me
posted by Anonymous at 6:07 PM on November 23, 2015
or was that just me
posted by Anonymous at 6:07 PM on November 23, 2015
I was very sad for the shoe, does that count?
posted by rifflesby at 6:27 PM on November 23, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by rifflesby at 6:27 PM on November 23, 2015 [19 favorites]
Last night I was listening to The Big Band Show with Glen Woodcock. He was programming an ongoing feature about the music of Frank Sinatra, and when I heard the opening chords of 'Witchcraft', I started getting ready to sing along and laugh to myself...
posted by ovvl at 6:43 PM on November 23, 2015
posted by ovvl at 6:43 PM on November 23, 2015
I was very sad for the shoe, does that count?
posted by rifflesby
I couldn't understand what was wrong with everyone in the movie that they didn't arrest that guy right then. Obviously that shoe was sentient! OBVIOUSLY!
posted by Anonymous at 7:03 PM on November 23, 2015
posted by rifflesby
I couldn't understand what was wrong with everyone in the movie that they didn't arrest that guy right then. Obviously that shoe was sentient! OBVIOUSLY!
posted by Anonymous at 7:03 PM on November 23, 2015
I couldn't understand what was wrong with everyone in the movie that they didn't arrest that guy right then. Obviously that shoe was sentient! OBVIOUSLY!
Wasn't that kind of the point, though? That Toons were such second-class citizens that a room full of cops could watch a judge they knew to be corrupt execute an innocent, sentient Toon for no good reason and none of them said boo?
posted by Navelgazer at 7:19 PM on November 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
Wasn't that kind of the point, though? That Toons were such second-class citizens that a room full of cops could watch a judge they knew to be corrupt execute an innocent, sentient Toon for no good reason and none of them said boo?
posted by Navelgazer at 7:19 PM on November 23, 2015 [8 favorites]
And now I'm home and watching it again. The Ink & Paint club is described as "Toon Revue - strictly humans only." So an L.A. Toon version of the Cotton Club? That's both fucked up and a good touch.
posted by Navelgazer at 7:51 PM on November 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 7:51 PM on November 23, 2015 [2 favorites]
And now I'm curious if people who were older than I was (8) when they first saw this were able to see the Cloverleaf Industries thing coming. The first time we see the logo, as it's overtaking the Red Car, it's clearly a highway cloverleaf to my eyes, but I think things in the intervening years, like The Simpsons and such, have made me keener-eyed to such blink-and-you'll-miss-it references.
posted by Navelgazer at 7:58 PM on November 23, 2015
posted by Navelgazer at 7:58 PM on November 23, 2015
A nice moment from normally Toon-detesting Eddie - seeing Betty Boop again for the first time in presumably ages, he smiles genuinely and agrees that she's "still got it." Probably a nod to the voice actress doing this for the first time in almost fifty goddamn years, but still really sweet.
posted by Navelgazer at 8:07 PM on November 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 8:07 PM on November 23, 2015 [5 favorites]
Wasn't that kind of the point, though? That Toons were such second-class citizens that a room full of cops could watch a judge they knew to be corrupt execute an innocent, sentient Toon for no good reason and none of them said boo?
Oh, huh. Child Schroedinger definitely did not pick on that dynamic, and I found that death scene at the end so viscerally terrifying as a kid that I haven't seen the movie since. What I remember of the movie was a lot of animated character suffering and the expectation that we were supposed to laugh about it. And I didn't even like Looney Tunes because I felt bad for Porky Pig/Yosemite Sam/Wile E. Coyote/etc, so my emotional impressions of Roger Rabbit are of feeling sorry for the poor Toons being hurt. So an hour-and-a-half of abject cruelty, topped off by the aforementioned existential crisis.
The point you make puts a real different spin on all that.
posted by Anonymous at 10:24 PM on November 23, 2015
Oh, huh. Child Schroedinger definitely did not pick on that dynamic, and I found that death scene at the end so viscerally terrifying as a kid that I haven't seen the movie since. What I remember of the movie was a lot of animated character suffering and the expectation that we were supposed to laugh about it. And I didn't even like Looney Tunes because I felt bad for Porky Pig/Yosemite Sam/Wile E. Coyote/etc, so my emotional impressions of Roger Rabbit are of feeling sorry for the poor Toons being hurt. So an hour-and-a-half of abject cruelty, topped off by the aforementioned existential crisis.
The point you make puts a real different spin on all that.
posted by Anonymous at 10:24 PM on November 23, 2015
The Ink & Paint club is described as "Toon Revue - strictly humans only." So an L.A. Toon version of the Cotton Club? That's both fucked up and a good touch.
Also, I just noticed, the band backing up Jessica in the club are all crows...
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:54 PM on November 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also, I just noticed, the band backing up Jessica in the club are all crows...
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:54 PM on November 23, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm pretty sure it's a riff off the crows from Dumbo, long considered to be one of Disney's more racist caricatures.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:16 AM on November 24, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 4:16 AM on November 24, 2015 [8 favorites]
It's certainly not the only or even perhaps the best way to critique the film but it is totally 100% possible to analyze Who Framed Roger Rabbit explicitly through the lens of race and the history of race relations in Hollywood. I mean come on, a minority (toons) seen by the (white) establishment as being great entertainers and wild and crazy and most of the capital and real business is handled by white men (Marvin Acme, R.K. Maroon). They live in a ghettoized section of the city that some rich people want to run an expressway through? Face bias and cruelty from the judicial system? Of course the Ink & Paint club is the Cotton Club - it's all there.
See also this other tor.com piece from a couple years ago.
posted by Wretch729 at 8:22 AM on November 24, 2015 [11 favorites]
See also this other tor.com piece from a couple years ago.
posted by Wretch729 at 8:22 AM on November 24, 2015 [11 favorites]
AND the little-known, little-read book (which I HAD actually read myself... pulled out a discount pile because it looked like 'my kind of weird' in the early 1980s).
I wouldn't be surprised if you and I are the only people in this thread who have. I wouldn't really recommend it to anyone who loves the movie. They might like it too but it certainly wouldn't be a predictor. I remember it being good but that might just be because it was probably my first noir book.
posted by phearlez at 9:23 AM on November 24, 2015
I wouldn't be surprised if you and I are the only people in this thread who have. I wouldn't really recommend it to anyone who loves the movie. They might like it too but it certainly wouldn't be a predictor. I remember it being good but that might just be because it was probably my first noir book.
posted by phearlez at 9:23 AM on November 24, 2015
What's the deal with the weasels dying of laughter? Judge Doom sets this up early on, that they need to be careful about laughing. But why is it just the weasels, out of all the toons, that appear to have this problem?
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:30 AM on November 24, 2015
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:30 AM on November 24, 2015
I don't know about the laughing but aren't the weasels supposed to be the same ones from the Mr. Toad cartoon? Snopes says laughing yourself to death is both possible and has a long history in English as a phrase.
posted by Wretch729 at 10:32 AM on November 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Wretch729 at 10:32 AM on November 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
It appears as though the Weasels are the only Toons that get themselves in that "can't stop laughing" state, so maybe they're the only ones truly at risk from dying of it.
posted by Navelgazer at 12:07 PM on November 24, 2015
posted by Navelgazer at 12:07 PM on November 24, 2015
Well, their cousins the hyenas didn't last long, as I recall.
posted by SPrintF at 12:56 PM on November 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by SPrintF at 12:56 PM on November 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
> or was that just me
Definitely not just you, the Doom death scene in particular wasn't something squeamish me was expecting at all (when watching it in a movie theatre with similarly aged kids as part of the programme of a Christmas party organised by my parent's workplace for employees' children) and forced me to look away from the screen for the duration of it.
posted by Bangaioh at 1:26 PM on November 24, 2015
Definitely not just you, the Doom death scene in particular wasn't something squeamish me was expecting at all (when watching it in a movie theatre with similarly aged kids as part of the programme of a Christmas party organised by my parent's workplace for employees' children) and forced me to look away from the screen for the duration of it.
posted by Bangaioh at 1:26 PM on November 24, 2015
I wouldn't be surprised if you and I are the only people in this thread who have. .
‹Raises hand› Read it (Who Censored Roger Rabbit) some time after the movie came out, and it was definitely different, but interesting. A little like watching Bladerunner and reading Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
I understand the writer wrote a sequel, which I haven't read. I'm curious how that was done, as the first book has Eddie Valiant investigating Roger's murder at the request of a duplicate of Roger (don't ask).
posted by rochrobbb at 3:35 PM on November 24, 2015
‹Raises hand› Read it (Who Censored Roger Rabbit) some time after the movie came out, and it was definitely different, but interesting. A little like watching Bladerunner and reading Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
I understand the writer wrote a sequel, which I haven't read. I'm curious how that was done, as the first book has Eddie Valiant investigating Roger's murder at the request of a duplicate of Roger (don't ask).
posted by rochrobbb at 3:35 PM on November 24, 2015
Speaking of sequels, there was a follow-up graphic novel in which the surviving weasels resurrect Judge Doom by breaking into the studio archives, finding his original cels, and literally reanimating him. I thought that was a pretty clever concept.
posted by Faint of Butt at 4:26 AM on November 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 4:26 AM on November 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
« Older Winning the residential race | Slow Motion Fire Tornado Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Wretch729 at 11:42 AM on November 23, 2015 [11 favorites]