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December 5, 2015 1:18 PM Subscribe
Yeah the language section was kind of infuriating. I honestly started wondering whether it was screwing with me and building toward some surprise inversion of my expectations.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 1:29 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by escape from the potato planet at 1:29 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
I also got Everest is to Andes wrong.
I don't think their answer makes sense; I would have been ok with "as Tahoe is to the Great Lakes".
For proscribe-> prescribe I think they're just playing around with the letters, it's only a single vowel change between the two.
posted by nat at 1:31 PM on December 5, 2015 [14 favorites]
I don't think their answer makes sense; I would have been ok with "as Tahoe is to the Great Lakes".
For proscribe-> prescribe I think they're just playing around with the letters, it's only a single vowel change between the two.
posted by nat at 1:31 PM on December 5, 2015 [14 favorites]
Are you smarter than an 8th grader?is a different question from
Do you know the specific bits of information that students hoping to attend an Ontario private high school are expected to know for their SSATs (Secondary School Admission Tests), in a specific, rigid form in which those test administrators will expect to see it?But the shorter one definitely makes a better headline, so whatever.
posted by Wolfdog at 1:32 PM on December 5, 2015 [11 favorites]
i refuse to acknowledge a world order where this question is even a thing
posted by Foci for Analysis at 1:35 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by Foci for Analysis at 1:35 PM on December 5, 2015
Pretty sure the Everest/Andes one is a mistake or something. I got a 15.5 on the language though, so I've got to be smarter than some 8th graders, right?
posted by A Bad Catholic at 1:36 PM on December 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by A Bad Catholic at 1:36 PM on December 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
Not only am I as smart, I'm also less likely to acquiesce to authority. I got the same three "wrong" as you, and I will go about my day assuming those questions were written poorly.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:38 PM on December 5, 2015 [35 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 1:38 PM on December 5, 2015 [35 favorites]
If 8th graders are so smart how come I can go to a bar, driving my car, and get a drink, pick up a girl, and have a great night?
posted by Postroad at 1:43 PM on December 5, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by Postroad at 1:43 PM on December 5, 2015 [12 favorites]
Can someone explain the Tahoe/Erie thing? Here's why it looks wrong to me:
Everest is a mountain. The Andes are a mountain range.
Tahoe is a lake. Erie is another lake.
posted by anotherpanacea at 1:43 PM on December 5, 2015 [36 favorites]
Everest is a mountain. The Andes are a mountain range.
Tahoe is a lake. Erie is another lake.
posted by anotherpanacea at 1:43 PM on December 5, 2015 [36 favorites]
The 8th graders arranged to get you out of the house for a few hours to loot it.
posted by Wolfdog at 1:44 PM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 1:44 PM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
Yeah, I don't know. I picked Toronto/Alabama as my answer for that one, since Everest is a mountain that is not in the Andes and Toronto is a city that is not in Alabama and that seemed like my best option. I have no idea how the two lakes make sense.
posted by jacquilynne at 1:46 PM on December 5, 2015 [22 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 1:46 PM on December 5, 2015 [22 favorites]
If nothing else, we are smarter than the people who designed, reviewed, and approved the test questions.
posted by rtha at 1:47 PM on December 5, 2015 [44 favorites]
posted by rtha at 1:47 PM on December 5, 2015 [44 favorites]
I was correct on all the language ones except Tahoe/Erie. Not so well on the math. It is surprising how much of this you forget.
Now as for the term smarter, if they can teach kids how to shop around for a good mechanic to replace a head gasket for a low price on a 10 year old Subaru as well as lecture me on my gullibility for auto repair, then you would be onto something!!
posted by Muncle at 1:47 PM on December 5, 2015
Now as for the term smarter, if they can teach kids how to shop around for a good mechanic to replace a head gasket for a low price on a 10 year old Subaru as well as lecture me on my gullibility for auto repair, then you would be onto something!!
posted by Muncle at 1:47 PM on December 5, 2015
Another Tahoe/Erie grumbler here. My guess is they think of Everest as a mountainous area and Andes as a larger mountainous area, rather than a mountain and a range. Though to me that would make Caspian:Atlantic valid as well.
posted by waninggibbon at 1:47 PM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by waninggibbon at 1:47 PM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
Yeah. I don't get the Tahoe/Erie thing either but I managed to get all the other language ones. I guessed that proscribe/prescribe are likely homophones in the local accent and I think that palatable/unsatisfactory and conglomerate/individual are sort of opposites.
posted by merlynkline at 1:47 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by merlynkline at 1:47 PM on December 5, 2015
If nothing else, we are smarter than the people who designed, reviewed, and approved the test questions.
Go ahead, post your 20-question multiple choice language test which everybody on MetaFilter agrees is correct.
posted by Wolfdog at 1:48 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Go ahead, post your 20-question multiple choice language test which everybody on MetaFilter agrees is correct.
posted by Wolfdog at 1:48 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Palatable is a loose opposite of unsatisfactory as is individual of conglomerate.
Not all die are cubic though, damnit.
posted by deadwax at 1:54 PM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
Not all die are cubic though, damnit.
posted by deadwax at 1:54 PM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
If the key to the proscribe is to prescribe question is that they sound almost alike and not that they have meanings that are opposite each other, then that's a dumb question.
I guess my take on palatable / unsatisfactory is coloured by my work history. In the world of food reviewing, palatable and unsatisfactory are not opposites. They're both significant criticisms.
posted by jacquilynne at 1:58 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I guess my take on palatable / unsatisfactory is coloured by my work history. In the world of food reviewing, palatable and unsatisfactory are not opposites. They're both significant criticisms.
posted by jacquilynne at 1:58 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Math is hard.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:01 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:01 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
Poorly-written analogy questions are still a thing, I see. They just need to excise them from tests entirely. In some ways they penalize people who habitually analyze and pick apart questions.
I got a 28.5 on language, and a "why did you bother lol" on math (or, well, a 25 somehow).
posted by naju at 2:05 PM on December 5, 2015
I got a 28.5 on language, and a "why did you bother lol" on math (or, well, a 25 somehow).
posted by naju at 2:05 PM on December 5, 2015
I got them all except the Everest is to Andes as Tahoe is to Erie. I have no idea why that analogy works. One is a mountain related to another range, the other is a lake to a (really big) lake. Unless the Andes are supposed to be one really big mountain? The rest are legit.
posted by dis_integration at 2:06 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by dis_integration at 2:06 PM on December 5, 2015
Tahoe is a lake. Erie is another lake.
Tahoe is a ski resort. Erie is a canal, a lake, a city, [consults google] an insurance company, an American Indian tribe, a county, and first person PC game where horror meets intense dark-ride with hidden, rotting cats.
posted by sfenders at 2:06 PM on December 5, 2015 [12 favorites]
Tahoe is a ski resort. Erie is a canal, a lake, a city, [consults google] an insurance company, an American Indian tribe, a county, and first person PC game where horror meets intense dark-ride with hidden, rotting cats.
posted by sfenders at 2:06 PM on December 5, 2015 [12 favorites]
For the most part, if my thought process during a question is "what is the answer that the person who wrote the question wants me to arrive at" then we're more into testing clairvoyance than aptitude.
posted by naju at 2:06 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by naju at 2:06 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
Another vote here for Toronto:Alabama for Everest:Andes. And my problem with the cylinder:can question is that dice is plural and can is singular. Still the 'best' answer, but that really grates.
posted by zanni at 2:08 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by zanni at 2:08 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
I chose Caspian:Atlantic for sea vs ocean in diff areas vs mountain and range in diff areas.. Their answer didn't make sense to me.
Otherwise all the word stuff was good, then I looked at the math and quit.
posted by chapps at 2:10 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Otherwise all the word stuff was good, then I looked at the math and quit.
posted by chapps at 2:10 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Not all die are cubic though, damnit.
But worse, they don't say die, they say dice. A single cylinder is to TWO cans as a cube is to dice. The question is flat out wrong.
I was also upset with the 5-?-9 right triangle where the "correct" answer was 7.5, but that was merely the CLOSEST answer to sqrt(56).
BTW, I got them all (language and math) except Everest/Andes, which I agree with others here is pretty ambiguous, given that the Andes are a range and Everest a mountain in that range, whereas Tahoe and Erie are both lakes.
posted by ubiquity at 2:10 PM on December 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
But worse, they don't say die, they say dice. A single cylinder is to TWO cans as a cube is to dice. The question is flat out wrong.
I was also upset with the 5-?-9 right triangle where the "correct" answer was 7.5, but that was merely the CLOSEST answer to sqrt(56).
BTW, I got them all (language and math) except Everest/Andes, which I agree with others here is pretty ambiguous, given that the Andes are a range and Everest a mountain in that range, whereas Tahoe and Erie are both lakes.
posted by ubiquity at 2:10 PM on December 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
I also have a problem with this one:
Reticent is to outgoing as...
A: fastidious is to easygoing
Fastidious means careful attention to detail. Reticent means a restraint or reluctance to reveal one's thoughts. Reticent isn't quite the opposite of outgoing, and fastidious isn't quite the opposite of easygoing. It's like 4 words that are just in a jumble and you have to divine what the intentions of the testmaker are.
posted by naju at 2:11 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Reticent is to outgoing as...
A: fastidious is to easygoing
Fastidious means careful attention to detail. Reticent means a restraint or reluctance to reveal one's thoughts. Reticent isn't quite the opposite of outgoing, and fastidious isn't quite the opposite of easygoing. It's like 4 words that are just in a jumble and you have to divine what the intentions of the testmaker are.
posted by naju at 2:11 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
If nothing else, we are smarter than the people who designed, reviewed, and approved the test questions.
Incidentally, and this is not exactly bragging, but ok maybe it is bragging but in the right context, if there is such a thing, I got a perfect score on the GRE Verbal portion, so I feel like I have empirical support to complain about a stupid standardized test analogy. Everest is to Andes as Tasmania is to Azores. That's an analogy that works. I really wish the test writer would explain themselves. It's going to bother me all night.
posted by dis_integration at 2:16 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
Incidentally, and this is not exactly bragging, but ok maybe it is bragging but in the right context, if there is such a thing, I got a perfect score on the GRE Verbal portion, so I feel like I have empirical support to complain about a stupid standardized test analogy. Everest is to Andes as Tasmania is to Azores. That's an analogy that works. I really wish the test writer would explain themselves. It's going to bother me all night.
posted by dis_integration at 2:16 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's gratifying that, with the wisdom of years, I can look on these verbal comprehension questions and still find them just as impossibly stupid as I did when I was actually taking the SAT.
posted by invitapriore at 2:25 PM on December 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by invitapriore at 2:25 PM on December 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
All correct except the Lake Erie one.
This math question is also flawed:
4. (x + 3)2 = x2 + 6x + 9
A. x = 2
B. x = 1
C. x = 0
D. x = -1
E. all of the above
The equation is true for all x, so it doesn't tells us anything about the value for x. Its a tautology. So we don't know if x=2 or x=1, or anything about x. So I would be okay with an option "Any of the above are valid.", but "All of the above" isn't really supported. Especially since if (a) is true, then (b)-(d) are certainly false.
This tree is made out of wood
What kind of tree is it?
a) oak
b) pine
c) elm
d) aspen
e) all of the above.
posted by jpdoane at 2:27 PM on December 5, 2015 [23 favorites]
This math question is also flawed:
4. (x + 3)2 = x2 + 6x + 9
A. x = 2
B. x = 1
C. x = 0
D. x = -1
E. all of the above
The equation is true for all x, so it doesn't tells us anything about the value for x. Its a tautology. So we don't know if x=2 or x=1, or anything about x. So I would be okay with an option "Any of the above are valid.", but "All of the above" isn't really supported. Especially since if (a) is true, then (b)-(d) are certainly false.
This tree is made out of wood
What kind of tree is it?
a) oak
b) pine
c) elm
d) aspen
e) all of the above.
posted by jpdoane at 2:27 PM on December 5, 2015 [23 favorites]
Incidentally, and this is not exactly bragging, but ok maybe it is bragging but in the right context, if there is such a thing, I got a perfect score on the GRE Verbal portion, so I feel like I have empirical support to complain about a stupid standardized test analogy.
I also got a perfect GRE Verbal score and I totally agree about the Everest:Andes one. I was equally annoyed about the proscribe:prescribe one because it had 2 reasonable answers. If you just look at the letters, prey:pray works as an answer; if you consider the meaning, then enchantment:misery works. I went back and forth trying to decide which to pick and ended up going with enchantment:misery based on the fact that every other question (and every other analogy I've ever come across on any test) requires you to consider the meaning of the word rather than its spelling.
posted by Redstart at 2:27 PM on December 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
I also got a perfect GRE Verbal score and I totally agree about the Everest:Andes one. I was equally annoyed about the proscribe:prescribe one because it had 2 reasonable answers. If you just look at the letters, prey:pray works as an answer; if you consider the meaning, then enchantment:misery works. I went back and forth trying to decide which to pick and ended up going with enchantment:misery based on the fact that every other question (and every other analogy I've ever come across on any test) requires you to consider the meaning of the word rather than its spelling.
posted by Redstart at 2:27 PM on December 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
He, I went through the exact same logic as you, jacquilynne, to come up with :: Toronto:Alabama, and was thinking, well, okay, a state is made up of cities like a range is made up of mountains, and in both cases the listed individual item isn't part of the listed conglomerate, okay, a bit subtle but I can see it. And then I click and discover they think there is a Mt. Andes and my mind switches over, like when you suspect the computer program you're using isn't very good, and you realize that I'm not just going to use this, I'm going to have to debug it at the same time.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:29 PM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 2:29 PM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
jpdoane, that question is when I stopped taking the Math test and decided that I prefer these boards of Canada.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:33 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 2:33 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
I earned a perfect score on the Language quiz and I, uh, skipped the Mathematics quiz.
The only winning move is not to give a fuck.
posted by Xavier Xavier at 2:34 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
The only winning move is not to give a fuck.
posted by Xavier Xavier at 2:34 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
Antennas!
posted by jpdoane at 2:35 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by jpdoane at 2:35 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
i am definitely smarter than these kids and also i guess everyone in this thread because i did not take this test at all, instead i had a popsicle that was very tasty.
posted by poffin boffin at 2:42 PM on December 5, 2015 [21 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 2:42 PM on December 5, 2015 [21 favorites]
I'd like to "jettison" certain questions. Also did not compute on the Everest / Andes deal. Otherwise, fun! Thanks for the ego-boost.
posted by foodbedgospel at 2:48 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by foodbedgospel at 2:48 PM on December 5, 2015
I did the math one and besides the weirdness pointed to by jpdoane I find this one bizarre:
posted by dis_integration at 2:53 PM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
Carlos will be double Mark's age two years from now. If Mark is M years old today, how old is Carlos now?Does this mean that Carlos will be double the age Mark is now, in 2 years? So, e.g., Mark is 5 and Carlos is 8, so in two years Carlos will be 10, double Mark's age. Or does this mean that Carlos will be double Mark's age when Mark is also two years older? So e.g., Mark is 6 now, and Carlos is 14, so in two years Mark will be 8 and Carlos 16. The answer they give (2M + 2) fits the latter scenario, but the question is vague enough to support the former easily.
posted by dis_integration at 2:53 PM on December 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
Everest/Andes
Everest is smaller than the Andes but higher.
Lake Tahoe is smaller than Lake Erie but higher.
No idea if this is actually the logic behind the question but it's how I got there.
(Disclaimer: Not in any way related to the author(s) of this quiz.)
posted by speug at 2:58 PM on December 5, 2015
Everest is smaller than the Andes but higher.
Lake Tahoe is smaller than Lake Erie but higher.
No idea if this is actually the logic behind the question but it's how I got there.
(Disclaimer: Not in any way related to the author(s) of this quiz.)
posted by speug at 2:58 PM on December 5, 2015
Not all die are cubic though, damnit.
Neither are all cans cylinders. It's the most common shape, though.
But worse, they don't say die, they say dice.
The "I haven't looked in a dictionary lately" thread is over at MetaTalk :-)
posted by effbot at 3:02 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Neither are all cans cylinders. It's the most common shape, though.
But worse, they don't say die, they say dice.
The "I haven't looked in a dictionary lately" thread is over at MetaTalk :-)
posted by effbot at 3:02 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
7.4833...
posted by Obscure Reference at 3:04 PM on December 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Obscure Reference at 3:04 PM on December 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'm trying to make the pray/prey one make sense in terms of its meaning and the closest I can get is "pray" in the sense of "pray for" and "prey" in the sense of "prey on." But that's pretty shaggy. If it's really just the spelling and has nothing to do with the meaning, that's weird as hell.
posted by en forme de poire at 3:09 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 3:09 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
The equation is true for all x, so it doesn't tells us anything about the value for x.
Nope! If x were 0 the equation would simplify to 6=9, for instance. You don't have to solve it, just try plugging in each answer choice and see which one works.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 3:09 PM on December 5, 2015
Nope! If x were 0 the equation would simplify to 6=9, for instance. You don't have to solve it, just try plugging in each answer choice and see which one works.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 3:09 PM on December 5, 2015
Nope! If x were 0 the equation would simplify to 6=9, for instance.
No, it simplifies to 9 = 9... (x + 3)2 = (0 + 3)2 = 32 = 9.
posted by en forme de poire at 3:12 PM on December 5, 2015
No, it simplifies to 9 = 9... (x + 3)2 = (0 + 3)2 = 32 = 9.
posted by en forme de poire at 3:12 PM on December 5, 2015
I believe (x + 3)2 was meant to be (x+3)squared, and yes, it works for all values of x including zero.
posted by mmoncur at 3:13 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by mmoncur at 3:13 PM on December 5, 2015
KAOS, it doesn't give that value for 0, and the answer which shows as correct is 'All of the above' which means 'x=0' is included. The problem is that maths Q4 isn't a question, its simply a statement which is demonstrably true, since the two sides of the equation represent a simple translation.
posted by biffa at 3:17 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by biffa at 3:17 PM on December 5, 2015
Ah, yeah, superscript probably got broken w/ cut + paste into the thread, I see where the confusion's coming from now. But if it were (x+3)2 then none of the answers work, it'd have to be -1/2.
posted by en forme de poire at 3:18 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by en forme de poire at 3:18 PM on December 5, 2015
Smarter? Who cares about smarter?! I'm having cake for dinner.
Game, set, match, 8th graders.
posted by VTX at 3:22 PM on December 5, 2015 [16 favorites]
Game, set, match, 8th graders.
posted by VTX at 3:22 PM on December 5, 2015 [16 favorites]
Doh, as you can tell, I didn't take the test. Sorry!
posted by the agents of KAOS at 3:25 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by the agents of KAOS at 3:25 PM on December 5, 2015
I got all the language questions right, then went on to the math section and made a bunch of grumpy noises before closing my browser without trying even a single question. What a lovely flashback to middle school.
posted by Hermione Granger at 3:31 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Hermione Granger at 3:31 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Math is hard.
I got all the language questions right, then went on to the math section and made a bunch of grumpy noises before closing my browser without trying even a single question. What a lovely flashback to middle school.
I got 19/20 on language...and 3/10 on math. This is literally why I went to law school.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:35 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
I got all the language questions right, then went on to the math section and made a bunch of grumpy noises before closing my browser without trying even a single question. What a lovely flashback to middle school.
I got 19/20 on language...and 3/10 on math. This is literally why I went to law school.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:35 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Doh, as you can tell, I didn't take the test. Sorry!
No need to apologize! If it makes you feel better I have a PhD in a STEM field and I got one of the math questions wrong because I made a subtraction error. Oopsie doodly doo.
posted by en forme de poire at 3:56 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
No need to apologize! If it makes you feel better I have a PhD in a STEM field and I got one of the math questions wrong because I made a subtraction error. Oopsie doodly doo.
posted by en forme de poire at 3:56 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
So what was the average score among 8th graders and what's the passing grade? I did the test, but can't actually answer the question....
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 4:01 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 4:01 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I missed the proscribe/prescribe question (I guessed misery/enchantment, since those seemed to be the closest to oppositely oriented of the available options) and the Everest/Andes question (for which I also guessed Toronto/Alabama). But the really weird thing to me is that at the end, it told me that I scored 17 points. I went back and carefully counted. I got 18 out of 20 correct. Anyone have any guesses as to why I only scored 17 points?
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 4:11 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 4:11 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
What, thou wouldst tumult upon proscribing
thyself from this, our sage conglomerate?
Jettison thyself, weary artist, and
surrender self-sufficiency! Never
hath it been so justified to comprehend
thyself at first absurd and then mistaken,
an unsatisfactory and peurile
individual, wrapt in cellophane,
one who wouldst pray upon the misery
of the loquacious. A clumsy mystic!—
who wouldst construe theology, by need,
as vindication of biography, agreed.
posted by sylvanshine at 4:12 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
thyself from this, our sage conglomerate?
Jettison thyself, weary artist, and
surrender self-sufficiency! Never
hath it been so justified to comprehend
thyself at first absurd and then mistaken,
an unsatisfactory and peurile
individual, wrapt in cellophane,
one who wouldst pray upon the misery
of the loquacious. A clumsy mystic!—
who wouldst construe theology, by need,
as vindication of biography, agreed.
posted by sylvanshine at 4:12 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
I got 18 out of 20 correct. Anyone have any guesses as to why I only scored 17 points?
You get a half point off for every question you get wrong, rather than simply not getting a point for that question.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:15 PM on December 5, 2015
You get a half point off for every question you get wrong, rather than simply not getting a point for that question.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:15 PM on December 5, 2015
Huh. That's annoying.
But not as annoying as the last math section question. If they wanted an approximate answer, they really should have said so and not made me guess.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 4:22 PM on December 5, 2015
But not as annoying as the last math section question. If they wanted an approximate answer, they really should have said so and not made me guess.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 4:22 PM on December 5, 2015
It's multiple choice and the only answers are decimals. If you can't make the inference, then you aren't smarter than an 8th grader.
posted by Wolfdog at 4:25 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 4:25 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
Pls explain:
14. Palatable is to unsatisfactory as
E. conglomerate is to individual ✓
why?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:26 PM on December 5, 2015
14. Palatable is to unsatisfactory as
E. conglomerate is to individual ✓
why?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:26 PM on December 5, 2015
It's multiple choice and the only answers are decimals. If you can't make the inference, then you aren't smarter than an 8th grader.
Yes, of course I can (and did) make the inference. But the question they literally asked is not answered by any of the answer choices they supply. Why are they being dicks to the test-takers? They could easily give instructions or answers that work when read literally. I mean, I'd also be able to answer (but would be upset about) a question that went:
Which of these is a bird?
a) Giraffe
b) Bat
c) Kangaroo
d) Platypus
e) Whale
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 4:31 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yes, of course I can (and did) make the inference. But the question they literally asked is not answered by any of the answer choices they supply. Why are they being dicks to the test-takers? They could easily give instructions or answers that work when read literally. I mean, I'd also be able to answer (but would be upset about) a question that went:
Which of these is a bird?
a) Giraffe
b) Bat
c) Kangaroo
d) Platypus
e) Whale
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 4:31 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
14. Palatable is to unsatisfactory as
E. conglomerate is to individual ✓
palatable is the opposite of unsatisfactory. conglomerate the opposite of individual. You have to resist being philosophical about the nature of individuals and also take palatable in the most literal sense possible.
posted by dis_integration at 4:35 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
E. conglomerate is to individual ✓
palatable is the opposite of unsatisfactory. conglomerate the opposite of individual. You have to resist being philosophical about the nature of individuals and also take palatable in the most literal sense possible.
posted by dis_integration at 4:35 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's platypus, right? Because it has a duck-bill?
posted by jacquilynne at 4:35 PM on December 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 4:35 PM on December 5, 2015 [5 favorites]
It's platypus, right? Because it has a duck-bill?
I don't know. I'm pretty skeptical of the whole ducks-are-birds thing.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 4:39 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't know. I'm pretty skeptical of the whole ducks-are-birds thing.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 4:39 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Conglomerate isn't the opposite of individual.
That analogy was like saying if you pile a bunch of unsatisfactory things together it will result in something palatable.
As usual, the lesson I learned early on, that the key to taking tests was not to get the correct answer, but to figure out the answer the testmaker wants, still holds.
posted by kyrademon at 4:43 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
That analogy was like saying if you pile a bunch of unsatisfactory things together it will result in something palatable.
As usual, the lesson I learned early on, that the key to taking tests was not to get the correct answer, but to figure out the answer the testmaker wants, still holds.
posted by kyrademon at 4:43 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
I guess that's a good life lesson. It's not about how smart you are, it's how well you intuit the needs of arbitrary higher-ups and cater to those needs.
posted by naju at 4:51 PM on December 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by naju at 4:51 PM on December 5, 2015 [8 favorites]
> That analogy was like saying if you pile a bunch of unsatisfactory things together it will result in something palatable.
Hmm, maybe I need to reconsider my dinner-planning strategy.
posted by benito.strauss at 4:59 PM on December 5, 2015 [10 favorites]
Hmm, maybe I need to reconsider my dinner-planning strategy.
posted by benito.strauss at 4:59 PM on December 5, 2015 [10 favorites]
Apparently I am not.
posted by bendy at 5:00 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by bendy at 5:00 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
20 out of 20 on language....yes!!
Math? No, I'd like to keep my unblemished record, and walk away....but thanks for asking!
posted by KillaSeal at 5:13 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Math? No, I'd like to keep my unblemished record, and walk away....but thanks for asking!
posted by KillaSeal at 5:13 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Definitely not sure I get the reasoning for the right answers on the ones I missed. If proscribe:prescribe::prey:pray really is just about the fact that they're homophones or off by a single letter or something, that's weird. And the Everest:Andes one makes absolutely no sense to me at all, and none of the explanations people have given here so far make much sense to me either.
Standardized testing is absolutely as much about the ability to intuit how the test maker's minds work as it is about objectively factual knowledge and reasoning, which is a large part of why there's such a strong influence of cultural background on performance, particularly for things like analogy questions, but also for many math word problems, as dis_integration pointed out. I always did great on standardized tests in school. I'm also white, not an immigrant, and middle class. These facts are related, and it's not because white, middle-class Americans are intrinsically smarter.
posted by biogeo at 5:37 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Standardized testing is absolutely as much about the ability to intuit how the test maker's minds work as it is about objectively factual knowledge and reasoning, which is a large part of why there's such a strong influence of cultural background on performance, particularly for things like analogy questions, but also for many math word problems, as dis_integration pointed out. I always did great on standardized tests in school. I'm also white, not an immigrant, and middle class. These facts are related, and it's not because white, middle-class Americans are intrinsically smarter.
posted by biogeo at 5:37 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
Took a quick look at the math quiz and hellno.
posted by datawrangler at 5:57 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by datawrangler at 5:57 PM on December 5, 2015
Like a large proportion of you here I happily ran through the language section, did well, grumbled at the ones I got "wrong", clicked over to math, panicked, and closed the browser.
Today I was able to explain the difference between perimeter, area and volume to my fourth grader but I'm really going to have to get over my math fear if I'm going to make it past this year with him. Khan academy here I come.
posted by Cuke at 6:06 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Today I was able to explain the difference between perimeter, area and volume to my fourth grader but I'm really going to have to get over my math fear if I'm going to make it past this year with him. Khan academy here I come.
posted by Cuke at 6:06 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I got a perfect score on the Miller Analogy Test back in the dark ages, when the results were sent on postcards with the score written by hand.
And I got three of these analogies wrong! Ok, I will give them proscribe:prescribe ::pray:prey, because I guess they were going for homonyms, but no one who is using the word proscribe and wants it to be understood is going to pronounce it the same as prescribe!
And I will concede the palatable: unsatisfactory::conglomerate:individual as both being sort of antonyms (though palatable is specifically about taste and unsatisfactory could be about anything.)
But I think there's something intrinsically wrong with the Everest: Andes one. Everest is one specific mountain, the tallest in the world, located in Asia, and Andes is an unrelated mountain range in South America. So...what? Tahoe is the largest lake in California, and Erie is the smallest of the Great Lakes, also in North America. It's just not working for me.
Pity the 8th graders who were kept out of the best school on the basis of a fucked up question like this!
posted by EvelynU at 6:31 PM on December 5, 2015
And I got three of these analogies wrong! Ok, I will give them proscribe:prescribe ::pray:prey, because I guess they were going for homonyms, but no one who is using the word proscribe and wants it to be understood is going to pronounce it the same as prescribe!
And I will concede the palatable: unsatisfactory::conglomerate:individual as both being sort of antonyms (though palatable is specifically about taste and unsatisfactory could be about anything.)
But I think there's something intrinsically wrong with the Everest: Andes one. Everest is one specific mountain, the tallest in the world, located in Asia, and Andes is an unrelated mountain range in South America. So...what? Tahoe is the largest lake in California, and Erie is the smallest of the Great Lakes, also in North America. It's just not working for me.
Pity the 8th graders who were kept out of the best school on the basis of a fucked up question like this!
posted by EvelynU at 6:31 PM on December 5, 2015
A big part of what I teach involves test-taking strategies, and while things like this
This tree is made out of wood
What kind of tree is it?
a) oak
b) pine
c) elm
d) aspen
e) all of the above.
are awesome, I am never clever enough to come up with them when I need them. And while bad questions are easy to find, bad questions with a clear point to them [mockery counts] are harder to notice. If anybody knows where I can find similar witty things, I would love it if they posted them in this thread.
As unpalatable as it may be, things like
Which of these is a bird?
a) Giraffe
b) Bat
c) Kangaroo
d) Platypus
e) Whale
are what I am trying to teach people how to deal with, given that I know they have poorly-written multiple choice tests in their futures.
posted by Acari at 6:31 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
This tree is made out of wood
What kind of tree is it?
a) oak
b) pine
c) elm
d) aspen
e) all of the above.
are awesome, I am never clever enough to come up with them when I need them. And while bad questions are easy to find, bad questions with a clear point to them [mockery counts] are harder to notice. If anybody knows where I can find similar witty things, I would love it if they posted them in this thread.
As unpalatable as it may be, things like
Which of these is a bird?
a) Giraffe
b) Bat
c) Kangaroo
d) Platypus
e) Whale
are what I am trying to teach people how to deal with, given that I know they have poorly-written multiple choice tests in their futures.
posted by Acari at 6:31 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Man ain't none of those a bird
posted by A Bad Catholic at 6:33 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by A Bad Catholic at 6:33 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
I, too, got the Proscribe/prescribe question wrong. Looking back on it, I see now that the "hint" is that the word "Prey" in option D is spelled with a capital P, and is the only capitalized word in any of the options. I suppose this was deliberately done to signal a letter-based analogy, rather than (like all or most of the others) a definition-based analogy: the capital P in "Prey" corresponds with the capital P in "Proscribe" (in the question).
posted by fredzo718 at 6:43 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by fredzo718 at 6:43 PM on December 5, 2015
Goddamn tests trying to teach the kids that bats are birds. Bats ain't no birds. Bats have hair! Ipso facto they are a mammal. Silly tests, get out of here.
posted by A Bad Catholic at 6:44 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by A Bad Catholic at 6:44 PM on December 5, 2015
Not precisely on the point of badly structured multiple choice tests, but I almost never pass up the chance to talk about this question, which appeared on an English-as-a-foreign language exam I took as an exchange student. After that test, I spent quite a lot of time debating with my English teacher about whether e) could be a correct answer based on the likelihood that the speaker felt her husband was a son of a bitch. Mostly, I suspect I just liked being able to use the word bitch repeatedly in school.
That discussion paled in comparison to the length of the discussion I ended up having with the entire ESL faculty on what part of speech "inevitable" is in a sentence like "Joan knew there was nothing she could do stop it so she prepared herself for the inevitable." We could never get the whole group to agree on whether it was an adjective modifying an implied noun or was a noun itself, and since I wasn't that well versed on the formalities of English grammar, I wasn't willing to make the decision, which is what they were clearly hoping for.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:50 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
That discussion paled in comparison to the length of the discussion I ended up having with the entire ESL faculty on what part of speech "inevitable" is in a sentence like "Joan knew there was nothing she could do stop it so she prepared herself for the inevitable." We could never get the whole group to agree on whether it was an adjective modifying an implied noun or was a noun itself, and since I wasn't that well versed on the formalities of English grammar, I wasn't willing to make the decision, which is what they were clearly hoping for.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:50 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you're going to do the proscribe/prescribe one (which you shouldn't, it's a horseshit question) then you can't choose two words that have a meaningful relationship to one another and pretend there's only one correct answer.
Also, if any of the 8th graders could figure out how to move on to the math quiz on an iPad, then the answer for me is no.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 6:58 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, if any of the 8th graders could figure out how to move on to the math quiz on an iPad, then the answer for me is no.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 6:58 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
17/20, another person foiled by proscribe/prescribe and Everest/Andes, but perfect on math. Yes, I could get into high school!
posted by jeather at 8:22 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by jeather at 8:22 PM on December 5, 2015
12. Proscribe is to prescribe as
A. need is to agreed ✗
B. ship is to ships ✗
C. surprise is to surmise ✗
D. Prey is to pray ✓
E. misery is to enchantment ✗
"Proscribe" is the opposite of "prescribe". The only alternative with paired opposites is E.
14. Palatable is to unsatisfactory as
✗ A. prose is to dialect
✗ B. syntax is to noun
✗ C. cellophane is to wrap
✗ D. fume is to fumigation
✓ E. conglomerate is to individual
This is another paired opposites question, so it's pretty clear that this is a pattern they're testing for.
The supplied answer to question 12 is incorrect; mine (E) is correct. I am quite confident that this is the case. So although I may not be smarter than some arbitrary eighth grader, I am pleased to learn that I am rather less beaten down.
posted by flabdablet at 8:46 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
A. need is to agreed ✗
B. ship is to ships ✗
C. surprise is to surmise ✗
D. Prey is to pray ✓
E. misery is to enchantment ✗
"Proscribe" is the opposite of "prescribe". The only alternative with paired opposites is E.
14. Palatable is to unsatisfactory as
✗ A. prose is to dialect
✗ B. syntax is to noun
✗ C. cellophane is to wrap
✗ D. fume is to fumigation
✓ E. conglomerate is to individual
This is another paired opposites question, so it's pretty clear that this is a pattern they're testing for.
The supplied answer to question 12 is incorrect; mine (E) is correct. I am quite confident that this is the case. So although I may not be smarter than some arbitrary eighth grader, I am pleased to learn that I am rather less beaten down.
posted by flabdablet at 8:46 PM on December 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
This is an excellent demonstration of the limitations of standardized tests (and I say that as someone who scored 20/20 on the language portion). Here in this thread we have a dozen or so differing but reasonable and well-supported answers to the Everest and proscribe/prescribe analogy question. Some of them may miss a logical mark, but in fact there are solid alternative formulations for some of these questions. However, no one gets points for solid alternative formulations. There's no dialogue or debate with the test maker. There's just "right" and "wrong." And, in the end, what are we trying to encourage? If it's solution-generating, critical thinking, and evidence-based argument, then the options here, and the methodology, are insufficient.
posted by Miko at 8:49 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Miko at 8:49 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also: due to having paused in the middle of the language test in order to come back here and complain about it, the Star's website now informs me that I am out of time but has also awarded me a score of 20/20. So it seems I am smarter than an eighth grader after all.
posted by flabdablet at 8:51 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by flabdablet at 8:51 PM on December 5, 2015
I don't see "misery" and "enchantment" as opposites at all. Both are emotional states, but the opposite of "misery" would be something like "joy" or "contentment," while the opposite of "enchantment" would be something like "disillusion."
"Prey/pray" are honomyns with antithetical meanings, like "proscribe/prescribe." That's the answer they're looking for. They might even only care that they're homonyms.
posted by Miko at 8:52 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Prey/pray" are honomyns with antithetical meanings, like "proscribe/prescribe." That's the answer they're looking for. They might even only care that they're homonyms.
posted by Miko at 8:52 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
First sense of "enchantment" in my dictionary is "1. a feeling of great pleasure; delight." That's pretty clearly the opposite of misery.
What sense of "prey" is antithetical to what sense of "pray"?
posted by flabdablet at 8:55 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
What sense of "prey" is antithetical to what sense of "pray"?
posted by flabdablet at 8:55 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, "prey/pray" really are homonyms; there is no pronunciation difference at all. "Proscribe/prescribe" are not.
posted by flabdablet at 8:59 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 8:59 PM on December 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
They are, in many accents, absolutely homonyms - like, in mine. I know there would be a difference in BBC English but there's not a difference you can really hear across the plains of North America.
"Pray" - communicating with a deity. "Prey" - hunting to kill. They're not opposites, but they are antithetical. As I said, it could be fine just to call them homonyms - that would be enough to answer the question. The reasoning is much more solid than enchantment/misery. It's hard to argue that "enchantment" means only good feelings, even if Google Dictionary offers that. "Enchantment" has connotations of magic, captivation, of a supernatural force acting on perception (note synonyms like "voodoo," "spellbind," "charm," "hypnotize"). Otherworldly forces go a little bit beyond absence of misery. Meanwhile, the opposite of misery is not enchantment exactly either. Misery's most commonly cited antonyms are all simpler words for happiness/joy that lack the specificity of "enchantment." Also, "enchant's antomyns are things like "repel," "disgust," etc.
posted by Miko at 9:10 PM on December 5, 2015
"Pray" - communicating with a deity. "Prey" - hunting to kill. They're not opposites, but they are antithetical. As I said, it could be fine just to call them homonyms - that would be enough to answer the question. The reasoning is much more solid than enchantment/misery. It's hard to argue that "enchantment" means only good feelings, even if Google Dictionary offers that. "Enchantment" has connotations of magic, captivation, of a supernatural force acting on perception (note synonyms like "voodoo," "spellbind," "charm," "hypnotize"). Otherworldly forces go a little bit beyond absence of misery. Meanwhile, the opposite of misery is not enchantment exactly either. Misery's most commonly cited antonyms are all simpler words for happiness/joy that lack the specificity of "enchantment." Also, "enchant's antomyns are things like "repel," "disgust," etc.
posted by Miko at 9:10 PM on December 5, 2015
Enchantment and misery are at least as close to being opposites as conglomerate and individual.
posted by Redstart at 9:22 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by Redstart at 9:22 PM on December 5, 2015
But none of "prey's" antonyms would be anything to do with worship or hope, surely?
posted by en forme de poire at 9:24 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by en forme de poire at 9:24 PM on December 5, 2015
Just goes to show how culture-bound these are. You think of "prey" as "hunting to kill". Others may think of "prey" as "hunting to eat", and might even pray to find prey.
/Responding to Miko.
posted by benito.strauss at 9:24 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
/Responding to Miko.
posted by benito.strauss at 9:24 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
The real point here is that if you're designing a multiple choice test, the answers should not cause controversy. If they do, it's a bad multiple choice test, and you should feel bad for inflicting it on kids.
posted by flabdablet at 9:25 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 9:25 PM on December 5, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've had it up to here with all this preyer-shaming.
posted by Xavier Xavier at 9:38 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Xavier Xavier at 9:38 PM on December 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
My friend just happened to share this article about test-taking on facebook, seemed relevant to this: http://hotelconcierge.tumblr.com/post/113360634364/the-stanford-marshmallow-prison-experiment
posted by the agents of KAOS at 9:44 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by the agents of KAOS at 9:44 PM on December 5, 2015
This is weird. Didn't much like math ever but got them all right. Language is more my thing, 17/20. I also picked Toronto/Alabama as Everest/Andes. My logic was that Toronto is the largest city in Ontario, which is analogous to the state of Alabama. Everest is the largest mountain range in the Himalayas, which are analogous to the Andes. No?
posted by jimmythefish at 9:51 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by jimmythefish at 9:51 PM on December 5, 2015
I did the math, because I know I'm weak on language arts... and was please to walk away with a perfect score, while doing it all in my head.... good to know my age hasn't killed off all my skills yet.
posted by MikeWarot at 10:04 PM on December 5, 2015
posted by MikeWarot at 10:04 PM on December 5, 2015
Goddamn tests trying to teach the kids that bats are birds. Bats ain't no birds. Bats have hair! Ipso facto they are a mammal.
Um, excuse you, they are big bugs, everyone knows that.
posted by thetortoise at 1:08 AM on December 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Um, excuse you, they are big bugs, everyone knows that.
posted by thetortoise at 1:08 AM on December 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
I actually got the Lake Erie one correct - I did think "mountain to mountain, lake to lake".
And jeez, most of this is what I'm having to revise for the GRE. Either my schooling years were super inadequate (many of these were news to me before GRE) or 8th graders are being tested super harshly or both.
posted by divabat at 2:05 AM on December 6, 2015
And jeez, most of this is what I'm having to revise for the GRE. Either my schooling years were super inadequate (many of these were news to me before GRE) or 8th graders are being tested super harshly or both.
posted by divabat at 2:05 AM on December 6, 2015
If anybody knows where I can find similar witty things, I would love it if they posted them in this thread.
If you answer this question at random, what is the probability that you are correct?posted by rongorongo at 2:36 AM on December 6, 2015 [12 favorites]
a. 25%
b. 20%
c. 25%
d. 50%
Either “prey” and “pray” are more antonymous than I believe them to be, or that question, and only that question, deals with the pronunciation and/or spelling of the words, not the concepts they represent.
That’s just unfair.
posted by Fongotskilernie at 2:51 AM on December 6, 2015
That’s just unfair.
posted by Fongotskilernie at 2:51 AM on December 6, 2015
Oh and you want bad questions? Try Mensa.
When I sat for their test, for some reason I got given both the old test (a hodgepodge of questions) and the new one (all visual). One section in the old test was lateral thinking, and one of the questions was pretty much: "Dude is depressed and plans to kill himself tomorrow. He wakes up tomorrow, changes his mind. Why?" And only one correct answer is acceptable.
posted by divabat at 3:27 AM on December 6, 2015
When I sat for their test, for some reason I got given both the old test (a hodgepodge of questions) and the new one (all visual). One section in the old test was lateral thinking, and one of the questions was pretty much: "Dude is depressed and plans to kill himself tomorrow. He wakes up tomorrow, changes his mind. Why?" And only one correct answer is acceptable.
posted by divabat at 3:27 AM on December 6, 2015
And only one correct answer is acceptable.
Because he was the shortest dwarf in the world who was brought to his senses by landing on an icicle when he parachuted into the middle of a empty field on a Monopoly board. Obvs.
posted by rongorongo at 4:15 AM on December 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Because he was the shortest dwarf in the world who was brought to his senses by landing on an icicle when he parachuted into the middle of a empty field on a Monopoly board. Obvs.
posted by rongorongo at 4:15 AM on December 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
And only one correct answer is acceptable.
John Locke's birthday?
posted by thelonius at 5:51 AM on December 6, 2015
John Locke's birthday?
posted by thelonius at 5:51 AM on December 6, 2015
Enchantment and misery are at least as close to being opposites as conglomerate and individual.
I can't agree. The concepts are definitively opposed: an individual is a single distinct entity. A conglomerate is an group made of more than one entity. The categories are mutually exclusive. (Welllll you could have an individual conglomerate and a conglomerate of conglomerates, but that's starting to push it).
Enchantment and misery have different kinds of specificity. Other than one generally being thought of as a positive emotion and one being negative, they have no logical relationship to one another. In fact, for many meanings of "enchanted," enchantment is negative - making it possible to be both miserable and enchanted (it happens in Harry Potter) - so they can't be opposites.
that question, and only that question, deals with the pronunciation and/or spelling of the words
I think you're right about that. They differ by only one letter and they sound (*to most North Americans) about the same. I do think it's fair - not all the analogies have to be semantic, do they? - But not necessarily a good question.
The main issue with these tests is that they're so closed-ended. And culturally biased, yeah.
posted by Miko at 6:44 AM on December 6, 2015
I can't agree. The concepts are definitively opposed: an individual is a single distinct entity. A conglomerate is an group made of more than one entity. The categories are mutually exclusive. (Welllll you could have an individual conglomerate and a conglomerate of conglomerates, but that's starting to push it).
Enchantment and misery have different kinds of specificity. Other than one generally being thought of as a positive emotion and one being negative, they have no logical relationship to one another. In fact, for many meanings of "enchanted," enchantment is negative - making it possible to be both miserable and enchanted (it happens in Harry Potter) - so they can't be opposites.
that question, and only that question, deals with the pronunciation and/or spelling of the words
I think you're right about that. They differ by only one letter and they sound (*to most North Americans) about the same. I do think it's fair - not all the analogies have to be semantic, do they? - But not necessarily a good question.
The main issue with these tests is that they're so closed-ended. And culturally biased, yeah.
posted by Miko at 6:44 AM on December 6, 2015
For the proscribe/prescribe question, I figured it as proscribed=forbidden=something one needs to avoid vs prescribed=advised=something one should agree to follow, and chose need/agreed as the answer. I admit the logic is tortured (why not "needs to follow"?) but it still seems no more of a stretch than any of the other choices.
In conclusion, that question is a land of contrast. Literally.
posted by Westringia F. at 8:06 AM on December 6, 2015
In conclusion, that question is a land of contrast. Literally.
posted by Westringia F. at 8:06 AM on December 6, 2015
naju: "It's not about how smart you are, it's how well you intuit the needs of arbitrary higher-ups and cater to those needs."
It's not just that. It's being able to communicate with people. Not just Metafilter's bogiemen of Bosses and Administrators and Politicians, but also spouses and coworkers and neighbors and visiting entomologists. My dad is terrible at these quizzes (hi dad!), and it is a reflection of the fact that he's bad at understanding people, period. He's eloquent and articulate and good at expressing himself, but if you tell him, for example, "Dad, can you take one of the colas out of the carton and put it in the mini-fridge" you're about 50% likely to get into an argument about how that doesn't make any sense because you can't fit a whole carton of drinks in the mini-fridge, and how could he know that you meant to put the cola in the mini-fridge, because you said "it" and pronouns refer to the closest preceding noun, so "it" must mean "carton". And while some of the time it's pedantry, a lot of the time he really doesn't understand that "it" was meant to refer to the cola. Just being smart isn't enough, you need to be able to understand people.
(Though I suspect that "prey/pray" one crossed the comprehension border from "it's my fault for not getting what the test writer was getting at" into "its the test maker's fault for not even getting close")
posted by Bugbread at 7:48 PM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's not just that. It's being able to communicate with people. Not just Metafilter's bogiemen of Bosses and Administrators and Politicians, but also spouses and coworkers and neighbors and visiting entomologists. My dad is terrible at these quizzes (hi dad!), and it is a reflection of the fact that he's bad at understanding people, period. He's eloquent and articulate and good at expressing himself, but if you tell him, for example, "Dad, can you take one of the colas out of the carton and put it in the mini-fridge" you're about 50% likely to get into an argument about how that doesn't make any sense because you can't fit a whole carton of drinks in the mini-fridge, and how could he know that you meant to put the cola in the mini-fridge, because you said "it" and pronouns refer to the closest preceding noun, so "it" must mean "carton". And while some of the time it's pedantry, a lot of the time he really doesn't understand that "it" was meant to refer to the cola. Just being smart isn't enough, you need to be able to understand people.
(Though I suspect that "prey/pray" one crossed the comprehension border from "it's my fault for not getting what the test writer was getting at" into "its the test maker's fault for not even getting close")
posted by Bugbread at 7:48 PM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Verbal comprehension questions like the ones linked don't test the ability to "understand people." That sentiment would be cute if it weren't so risible.
posted by invitapriore at 9:07 PM on December 7, 2015
posted by invitapriore at 9:07 PM on December 7, 2015
invitapriore: "Verbal comprehension questions like the ones linked don't test the ability to "understand people.""
They don't test them, they rely on them. Just like eight of the ten math questions don't test English reading ability, but rely on English reading ability.
All I'm saying is that the ability to figure out imperfectly-phrased questions is not a life skill for sucking up to "arbitrary higher-ups", it's a life skill for all of life.
posted by Bugbread at 10:08 PM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
They don't test them, they rely on them. Just like eight of the ten math questions don't test English reading ability, but rely on English reading ability.
All I'm saying is that the ability to figure out imperfectly-phrased questions is not a life skill for sucking up to "arbitrary higher-ups", it's a life skill for all of life.
posted by Bugbread at 10:08 PM on December 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
And speaking with greater precision of meaning does increase the chances of being understood.
posted by Miko at 5:47 AM on December 8, 2015
posted by Miko at 5:47 AM on December 8, 2015
I feel like there's a different between prerequisite skills and "tested" skills. (Lend me some interpretive charity, here....) Basically, the ability to guess the principle or common category that two random words share is an ability that relies on a bunch of skills related to Gricean implicature. Conversations are collaborations in understanding each others' meanings and so require some interpretive charity, shared goals and techniques, etc. These test questions rely on those things too.
But I think what I wonder about... worry about... is that that at the highest levels the skills tested by the verbal sections of standardized tests are not just about that, but about conflating those relied-upon skills with cultural competence, test-taking ability, and maybe even some irrelevant puzzle-solving. So up to a certain point your score is determined by those prerequisite skills (and luck) and after that point further score increases rely on a different set of skills that might be less relevant to the good stuff we need to communicate effectively. On the one hand, those extra abilities are pretty closely allied with communicative skills generally, communicating across cultures, worldviews, and competences, for instance. And I always kind of had the sense that the GRE verbal section was testing my ability to grade bad undergraduate writing with some accuracy.
Yet at the same time, there's a kind of "testmaker mindset" that I feel like I got really good at understanding when I was young. I pretty much always got perfect scores on the verbal section of standardized tests, especially the ones that mattered for determining your place in life, and I don't know if I'm convinced that's because of some innate or learned ability to communicate as such, so much as it is a relatively specialized skill with tests, puzzling out the testmaker's perspective who it seems had a lot in common with me already.
I now mostly work with difficult-to-understand texts, and I'm pretty good at puzzling them out. But not as good as the standardized tests would have you believe.
posted by anotherpanacea at 10:21 AM on December 8, 2015
But I think what I wonder about... worry about... is that that at the highest levels the skills tested by the verbal sections of standardized tests are not just about that, but about conflating those relied-upon skills with cultural competence, test-taking ability, and maybe even some irrelevant puzzle-solving. So up to a certain point your score is determined by those prerequisite skills (and luck) and after that point further score increases rely on a different set of skills that might be less relevant to the good stuff we need to communicate effectively. On the one hand, those extra abilities are pretty closely allied with communicative skills generally, communicating across cultures, worldviews, and competences, for instance. And I always kind of had the sense that the GRE verbal section was testing my ability to grade bad undergraduate writing with some accuracy.
Yet at the same time, there's a kind of "testmaker mindset" that I feel like I got really good at understanding when I was young. I pretty much always got perfect scores on the verbal section of standardized tests, especially the ones that mattered for determining your place in life, and I don't know if I'm convinced that's because of some innate or learned ability to communicate as such, so much as it is a relatively specialized skill with tests, puzzling out the testmaker's perspective who it seems had a lot in common with me already.
I now mostly work with difficult-to-understand texts, and I'm pretty good at puzzling them out. But not as good as the standardized tests would have you believe.
posted by anotherpanacea at 10:21 AM on December 8, 2015
All I'm saying is that the ability to figure out imperfectly-phrased questions is not a life skill for sucking up to "arbitrary higher-ups", it's a life skill for all of life.
Of course it's an important life skill, but its exercise depends on context that you're eliding and that simply doesn't apply to a standardized test: when you construct meaning from ambiguous utterances, you rely on your history with the person you're communicating with, you rely on body language or other forms of out-of-band signaling, and you rely on the fact that in almost all cases you can ask for further clarification from the person you're communicating with because the communication channel is bidirectional and ongoing. In a standardized test, none of those things apply, and you're being quantitatively evaluated on it in ways that can have longstanding consequences on your life and the opportunities that are made available to you! The skill being exercised here is not the one you're talking about, and to conflate them is to engage in the same fallacious reasoning that's led to this type of testing being incorrectly treated as a proxy for aptitudes that it has nothing to do with.
posted by invitapriore at 10:57 AM on December 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
Of course it's an important life skill, but its exercise depends on context that you're eliding and that simply doesn't apply to a standardized test: when you construct meaning from ambiguous utterances, you rely on your history with the person you're communicating with, you rely on body language or other forms of out-of-band signaling, and you rely on the fact that in almost all cases you can ask for further clarification from the person you're communicating with because the communication channel is bidirectional and ongoing. In a standardized test, none of those things apply, and you're being quantitatively evaluated on it in ways that can have longstanding consequences on your life and the opportunities that are made available to you! The skill being exercised here is not the one you're talking about, and to conflate them is to engage in the same fallacious reasoning that's led to this type of testing being incorrectly treated as a proxy for aptitudes that it has nothing to do with.
posted by invitapriore at 10:57 AM on December 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
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Palatable is to Unsatisfactory as Conglomerate is to Individual
Everest is to Andes as Tahoe is to Erie
Proscribe is to prescribe as prey is to pray
Even knowing the apparently correct answers, I still have no idea how these make sense.
posted by jacquilynne at 1:26 PM on December 5, 2015 [25 favorites]