How Jimmy Fallon Crushed Stephen Colbert
December 17, 2015 9:19 AM Subscribe
So apparently the answer is "sort of"
posted by GuyZero at 9:38 AM on December 17, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 9:38 AM on December 17, 2015 [11 favorites]
The guy's charming to be sure, but the show is dumb as a post.
posted by fairmettle at 9:39 AM on December 17, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by fairmettle at 9:39 AM on December 17, 2015 [20 favorites]
Yup - TLDR: Jimmy Fallon is light-weight viral video fodder, even if that's not their stated goal.
Not mentioned AT ALL is the fact that he is strongly supported by The Roots, who look like they're having as much fun as he is, and it's all so effortless that you want to hang out with them forever. That's how you can incorporate a wide range of music into your show without making it feel like you're going into the Special Musical Guest moment.
I haven't seen Colbert's show since it started, but his band felt too staged. Have they gotten any more comfortable in their gig?
posted by filthy light thief at 9:39 AM on December 17, 2015 [13 favorites]
Not mentioned AT ALL is the fact that he is strongly supported by The Roots, who look like they're having as much fun as he is, and it's all so effortless that you want to hang out with them forever. That's how you can incorporate a wide range of music into your show without making it feel like you're going into the Special Musical Guest moment.
I haven't seen Colbert's show since it started, but his band felt too staged. Have they gotten any more comfortable in their gig?
posted by filthy light thief at 9:39 AM on December 17, 2015 [13 favorites]
Seriously, what percentage of the skits in Fallon's show are musical, or feature The Roots doing something wacky? Take out The Roots and replace them with any other stage band, and the show would lose a significant amount of it's fun and charm.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:42 AM on December 17, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by filthy light thief at 9:42 AM on December 17, 2015 [10 favorites]
Bring back Craig Ferguson!! (Who, by the way, should totally be a MeFite.)
posted by orrnyereg at 9:43 AM on December 17, 2015 [56 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 9:43 AM on December 17, 2015 [56 favorites]
Pretty much. I was disappointed by the new Colbert show. It's boring. To me, at least. Then again, I don't watch late night TV. I do watch Fallon clips on YouTube when I am looking for mindless entertainment.
posted by Bella Donna at 9:45 AM on December 17, 2015
posted by Bella Donna at 9:45 AM on December 17, 2015
Today I learned that the average Hollywood Reader commenter is 65 years old and constipated.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:46 AM on December 17, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:46 AM on December 17, 2015 [14 favorites]
Colbert has definitely gotten stronger since his shaky opening (he does a lot more clever commentary now, which he has obviously always excelled at), but his bits just don't contain the same amount of silly joy that Fallon's do. They're very different shows, to be sure.
posted by Windigo at 9:47 AM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Windigo at 9:47 AM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Seconding that The Roots are the show and I hope they're paid accordingly.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:48 AM on December 17, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:48 AM on December 17, 2015 [7 favorites]
I like Jimmy Fallon and Steve Higgins, and love The Roots, but the next time anyone not in the studio laughs during a Fallon monologue will be the first. The recurring segments (hashtags, thank you notes, etc.) get old around the third time you've watched them, but they keep coming back every week. The physical challenge type games and such are occasionally good, but if they are, they'll show up on Youtube. After a while, once you realize the joy is manufactured, you have a world class house band playing for a few minutes with a bunch of shlocky material and repetitive celebrity interviews rounding out the rest of the hour.
We stopped DVRing Fallon when Colbert's show launched, and it was definitely the right decision. It may not be doing well from a ratings perspective, but the entertainment value is still high. I think he needs to find some more recurring segments that work the way Seth Meyers' show did.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:50 AM on December 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
We stopped DVRing Fallon when Colbert's show launched, and it was definitely the right decision. It may not be doing well from a ratings perspective, but the entertainment value is still high. I think he needs to find some more recurring segments that work the way Seth Meyers' show did.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:50 AM on December 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
Today I learned that the average Hollywood Reader commenter is 65 years old and constipated.
Don't know if that is the normal crowd. This got linked on Drudge. That said, I'm not sure any newspaper or magazine comment section isn't 65 years old and constipated.
posted by Drinky Die at 9:53 AM on December 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
Don't know if that is the normal crowd. This got linked on Drudge. That said, I'm not sure any newspaper or magazine comment section isn't 65 years old and constipated.
posted by Drinky Die at 9:53 AM on December 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
This is probably a tiny factor, but it can't help that CBS makes their shows relatively hard to access online. We are complete cord-cutters, and our entertainment is Hulu and Amazon. Fallon is on Hulu, Colbert isn't, and I'm not paying for a separate CBS all-access app thingy. I like Colbert, but I'm not going to stay up late to watch him and I'm not going to spend more money for him.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 9:54 AM on December 17, 2015 [33 favorites]
posted by Pater Aletheias at 9:54 AM on December 17, 2015 [33 favorites]
It probably explains why I am not an entertainer or any fun at all, but I always sympathize for guests these days, like "God, do we have to do something that will 'go viral'? I just want to say how great it was to work with Tony Randall and go the fuck home, dammit!"
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:58 AM on December 17, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:58 AM on December 17, 2015 [11 favorites]
Noah has had strong moments — a thorough takedown of Ted Cruz is a recent example — but he also has had growing pains: a tendency to fumble in his delivery and to be a bit too free about laughing at the jokes.
I find it charming when Trevor Noah laughs at the jokes on the Daily Show, and I never would have said he laughs too much. What an odd thing to ding him on - I definitely think he's got a lot to growing to do still to own the position he's in, but that's not the negative I would have picked.
posted by blithers at 9:59 AM on December 17, 2015 [7 favorites]
I find it charming when Trevor Noah laughs at the jokes on the Daily Show, and I never would have said he laughs too much. What an odd thing to ding him on - I definitely think he's got a lot to growing to do still to own the position he's in, but that's not the negative I would have picked.
posted by blithers at 9:59 AM on December 17, 2015 [7 favorites]
I always sympathize for guests these days, like "God, do we have to do something that will 'go viral'? I just want to say how great it was to work with Tony Randall and go the fuck home, dammit!"
Sadly, that's the reality of marketing and promotion today. Blame the damn kids, I guess.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:00 AM on December 17, 2015
Sadly, that's the reality of marketing and promotion today. Blame the damn kids, I guess.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:00 AM on December 17, 2015
I forgot Colbert has a late night show. I really like him, but I completely forgot.
Fallon has access to a lot of the stars I like that for some reason don't show up on Kimmel or Conan. I'd say Conan is my very favorite, but I have to watch through the teamcoco site since my cable is very, very basic. I don't stay up to watch Fallon, and I find him a little unfunny, but he's always kind and generous to his guests. I loved Seth Myers on SNL but am not a big fan of his show.
I love the stuff that goes viral. Love mean tweets segment on Kimmel, love the games Fallon plays with my favorite celebs. Love when Conan visits The American Girl Place and bits where we all laugh at Jordan Schlansky.
posted by discopolo at 10:00 AM on December 17, 2015
Fallon has access to a lot of the stars I like that for some reason don't show up on Kimmel or Conan. I'd say Conan is my very favorite, but I have to watch through the teamcoco site since my cable is very, very basic. I don't stay up to watch Fallon, and I find him a little unfunny, but he's always kind and generous to his guests. I loved Seth Myers on SNL but am not a big fan of his show.
I love the stuff that goes viral. Love mean tweets segment on Kimmel, love the games Fallon plays with my favorite celebs. Love when Conan visits The American Girl Place and bits where we all laugh at Jordan Schlansky.
posted by discopolo at 10:00 AM on December 17, 2015
Windigo: Colbert has definitely gotten stronger since his shaky opening (he does a lot more clever commentary now, which he has obviously always excelled at), but his bits just don't contain the same amount of silly joy that Fallon's do.
What I read elsewhere (not recalling where, but it was around the time his show took the fourth-place honors) is that Colbert's show is seen by the average viewer as "too political," that he's not entirely shed the prior Colbert persona despite all efforts to make it appear so. As for silly joy, a little of that goes a long way, and it's all the same thing now. It's like watching a preteen who's eaten too much candy jumping up and down on a bed for an hour and a half and broadcasting it every night.
Pater Aletheias: This is probably a tiny factor, but it can't help that CBS makes their shows relatively hard to access online. We are complete cord-cutters, and our entertainment is Hulu and Amazon. Fallon is on Hulu, Colbert isn't, and I'm not paying for a separate CBS all-access app thingy. I like Colbert, but I'm not going to stay up late to watch him and I'm not going to spend more money for him.
Yes, CBS on the web sucks, in general, all the way around.
posted by blucevalo at 10:00 AM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
What I read elsewhere (not recalling where, but it was around the time his show took the fourth-place honors) is that Colbert's show is seen by the average viewer as "too political," that he's not entirely shed the prior Colbert persona despite all efforts to make it appear so. As for silly joy, a little of that goes a long way, and it's all the same thing now. It's like watching a preteen who's eaten too much candy jumping up and down on a bed for an hour and a half and broadcasting it every night.
Pater Aletheias: This is probably a tiny factor, but it can't help that CBS makes their shows relatively hard to access online. We are complete cord-cutters, and our entertainment is Hulu and Amazon. Fallon is on Hulu, Colbert isn't, and I'm not paying for a separate CBS all-access app thingy. I like Colbert, but I'm not going to stay up late to watch him and I'm not going to spend more money for him.
Yes, CBS on the web sucks, in general, all the way around.
posted by blucevalo at 10:00 AM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I find it charming when Trevor Noah laughs at the jokes on the Daily Show, and I never would have said he laughs too much. What an odd thing to ding him on
oh my gosh me too
he has dimples
posted by suddenly, and without warning, at 10:01 AM on December 17, 2015 [7 favorites]
oh my gosh me too
he has dimples
posted by suddenly, and without warning, at 10:01 AM on December 17, 2015 [7 favorites]
I'd probably watch a youtube video of Jimmy Fallon jumping on a bed for at least three minutes.
posted by FritoKAL at 10:02 AM on December 17, 2015
posted by FritoKAL at 10:02 AM on December 17, 2015
But what about after three minutes? That's the point.
posted by blucevalo at 10:03 AM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by blucevalo at 10:03 AM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
These days I don't get much opportunity to watch late night TV, but if I'm up, I usually end up picking Kimmel over the rest, as he at least seems to be able to do a vaguely passable interview, which is a skill that I don't think the others have. I did manage to catch Colbert the other night when he had on Jennifer Lawrence, and that was just painful to watch. Everything was about him and how funny he (mistakenly) thought he was. From what I've caught, Myers and Fallon seem equally bad at actually speaking to people. I realize these days sitting down and actually talking to somebody won't land you the big, viral, youtube hits, but that's what I still expect out of a talk show. Yes, I'm sure that places me among the "olds" but if I want actors being silly, I can always flip on the lip-synching show.
posted by sardonyx at 10:08 AM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 10:08 AM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
I totally find the board games and challenges a refreshing alternative to "celeb sits on a couch and recites anecdotes about their new film." It's usually funny as hell, and it's a slightly more authentic human experience, and it seems like most of them are enjoying it too. (They choose what game they want to play, actually.) It's light, but it's a talk show. I don't expect otherwise.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 10:10 AM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Solon and Thanks at 10:10 AM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
I find it charming when Trevor Noah laughs at the jokes on the Daily Show, and I never would have said he laughs too much. What an odd thing to ding him on
I agree blithers. Sometimes laughing at your own performance is bad, like when it prevents you from even saying your lines. Noah's laughs aren't that, they are a natural part of the flow. Stewart did the same thing all the time. It brings life to the performance because you can tell the performer is engaged and not just robotically reading off lines. (LENO)
Colbert's show is seen by the average viewer as "too political," that he's not entirely shed the prior Colbert persona despite all efforts to make it appear so.
He has stayed much closer to the Colbert Report persona than I expected him to and yeah I think it's part of the problem. The article points out he has fewer Republican viewers than the other hosts. I think he needs to stay political because it's one of his strengths and a contrast with Fallon, but he should play up some other parts of his personality as well to balance it. He is a devout Catholic and can speak about religious topics really well. Maybe work in some good natured (rather than sharply satirical) comedy on religion and family to appeal to audience members who might be more socially conservative. It's hard to balance out something like that with wanting to compete for the young and hip crowd, but hopefully the political content can still have some appeal there.
posted by Drinky Die at 10:11 AM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I agree blithers. Sometimes laughing at your own performance is bad, like when it prevents you from even saying your lines. Noah's laughs aren't that, they are a natural part of the flow. Stewart did the same thing all the time. It brings life to the performance because you can tell the performer is engaged and not just robotically reading off lines. (LENO)
Colbert's show is seen by the average viewer as "too political," that he's not entirely shed the prior Colbert persona despite all efforts to make it appear so.
He has stayed much closer to the Colbert Report persona than I expected him to and yeah I think it's part of the problem. The article points out he has fewer Republican viewers than the other hosts. I think he needs to stay political because it's one of his strengths and a contrast with Fallon, but he should play up some other parts of his personality as well to balance it. He is a devout Catholic and can speak about religious topics really well. Maybe work in some good natured (rather than sharply satirical) comedy on religion and family to appeal to audience members who might be more socially conservative. It's hard to balance out something like that with wanting to compete for the young and hip crowd, but hopefully the political content can still have some appeal there.
posted by Drinky Die at 10:11 AM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Seth's interviews were indeed horrible in the beginning, but he's really good at it by now. Fallon's never quite gotten the hang of it. I think Colbert's the best of them by far, and he's been doing it for longer than either of them, so it makes sense.
Kimmel is just off my radar entirely. I've watched a handful of shows over the years and just don't get the appeal at all.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:11 AM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Kimmel is just off my radar entirely. I've watched a handful of shows over the years and just don't get the appeal at all.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:11 AM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I enjoy Noah laughing at himself, too! I like how confident it is, and it makes it clear that he's having fun up there. It saves a lot of jokes that kind of bomb, imo.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 10:13 AM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Solon and Thanks at 10:13 AM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
I watched Colbert at first, but I was quickly reminded why I never watched Letterman or Leno or Fallon or any of those guys. It's still a talk show format. Monologue, desk segment, first guest is usually an actor promoting a movie, second guest might be an author with a book to sell (or sometimes a less successful actor than first guest), then musical guest. I was really hoping they'd use Colbert taking over to shake the format up, but I guess talk show audiences don't like things to change.
posted by downtohisturtles at 10:15 AM on December 17, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 10:15 AM on December 17, 2015 [6 favorites]
Regardless of what folks think about the show itself, Colbert has hands down the best opening sequence.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:21 AM on December 17, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 10:21 AM on December 17, 2015 [10 favorites]
Stephen Colbert is a genius when playing a character, but practically a nonentity when being himself. A smart, humorous, affable nonentity, to be sure; but nowhere near the acerbic comic dynamo that he was on the Colbert Report. And if he had chosen (or been allowed) to go the route of a Dick Cavett style in-depth panel discussion, I believe his true personality would have had a chance to shine. But the stale, antiquated format of the showbiz-chummy network TV talk show has done him no favors. It's smoothed over all the sharp edges that gave him any kind of appeal or bite. He would have been much better served by moving to a place like HBO, as fellow Daily Show alum John Oliver (and recently Jon Stewart) has done, and to great success.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:22 AM on December 17, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:22 AM on December 17, 2015 [12 favorites]
TV to fall asleep to. Need a compelling reason to seek this stuff out in the light of day, eg Conan and Letterman's exceptional comedy (syndicated in the afternoon at the time), Colbert and Stewart's commentary, and, yes, Fallon's silliness. Because three minutes is all it takes. The new Colbert just hasn't grabbed me like that. If I had cable I'd totally fall asleep to him though.
posted by Lorin at 10:24 AM on December 17, 2015
posted by Lorin at 10:24 AM on December 17, 2015
Let me add to the chorus of people disappointed in Colbert's Late Show. He did shake up the format a little: his monologue is more Ferguson than Letterman, and it's very short, like 2-3 minutes, with only one "monologue joke" that seems like it's there more as a meta-commentary on the monologue format than anything else.
I also appreciate Colbert's efforts to get politicians, diplomats, etc. on the show, but frankly, I don't care about a 10-minute interview with the woman who's playing Supergirl on Extruded Corporate Product 12,532.
Maybe Colbert was hampered by CBS. I just... I don't know. Is this the best he and his staff could come up with?
posted by Automocar at 10:30 AM on December 17, 2015
I also appreciate Colbert's efforts to get politicians, diplomats, etc. on the show, but frankly, I don't care about a 10-minute interview with the woman who's playing Supergirl on Extruded Corporate Product 12,532.
Maybe Colbert was hampered by CBS. I just... I don't know. Is this the best he and his staff could come up with?
posted by Automocar at 10:30 AM on December 17, 2015
Colbert vs Fallon as an argument has the same tenor as Letterman vs Leno. And I'm sure that is by design. It's like ratings detente. If you care enough to pick one, to believe that picking one uniquely expresses your identity, instead of like, jabbing the notifications tab til the break of dawn, all networks win.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:34 AM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:34 AM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
Being a lightweight has been a paying strategy for the late shows for years. Carson could play one on TV very well. Leno was an evil genius at it. Fallon seems to have stumbled into his formula mostly by luck, but falling into success seems to be his MO.
Colbert, like Letterman and Conan before him, is too demanding of his viewers to really hit a wide audience.
posted by bonehead at 10:52 AM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Colbert, like Letterman and Conan before him, is too demanding of his viewers to really hit a wide audience.
posted by bonehead at 10:52 AM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
> Colbert has hands down the best opening sequence.
So I actually thought that was Cities:Skylines at first.
posted by MysticMCJ at 10:55 AM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
So I actually thought that was Cities:Skylines at first.
posted by MysticMCJ at 10:55 AM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
And if he had chosen (or been allowed) to go the route of a Dick Cavett style in-depth panel discussion, I believe his true personality would have had a chance to shine.
Would love if Craig Ferguson came back and did a panel discussion show.
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:57 AM on December 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
Would love if Craig Ferguson came back and did a panel discussion show.
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:57 AM on December 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
Don't google what Craig is doing right now instead.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:59 AM on December 17, 2015
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:59 AM on December 17, 2015
It seems strange to laud Fallon for his silliness when Ferguson was so much about that (I mean, puppets, fercrissakes) and craigyferg never really caught on with the mainstream. But then, it was really true about Ferguson that it takes a lot of smarts to be that dumb, where Fallon is at that level naturally.
In any event, I'm just biding my time until Samantha Bee shows up -- for however long that lasts.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:01 AM on December 17, 2015
In any event, I'm just biding my time until Samantha Bee shows up -- for however long that lasts.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:01 AM on December 17, 2015
Don't google what Craig is doing right now instead.
Saw him on tour a couple of months back. He's having the time of his life. As for his game show -- I can't fault the man for grabbing onto easy, easy money, which probably lets him do something he finds more challenging.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:05 AM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
Saw him on tour a couple of months back. He's having the time of his life. As for his game show -- I can't fault the man for grabbing onto easy, easy money, which probably lets him do something he finds more challenging.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:05 AM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
Would love if Craig Ferguson came back and did a panel discussion show.
Well you're in luck, because your wish will be granted soon! He's doing Join or Die, a panel show about history on the History Channel. No release date yet though, I don't think.
posted by yasaman at 11:14 AM on December 17, 2015
Well you're in luck, because your wish will be granted soon! He's doing Join or Die, a panel show about history on the History Channel. No release date yet though, I don't think.
posted by yasaman at 11:14 AM on December 17, 2015
He must really look forward to your angry letters.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:19 AM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:19 AM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
He's doing Join or Die, a panel show about history on the History Channel
Man, they are really reaching for Hitler references these days.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:20 AM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
Man, they are really reaching for Hitler references these days.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:20 AM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
Anyway, since I guess "Craig Ferguson" is not really a valid answer to the question of Colbert vs. Fallon, no matter how much I still pine for Craigyferg's Late Late Show, I've more or less settled on Colbert by default. He's affable and funny, though more chuckle quietly funny than laugh uproariously funny, and he's occasionally still sharp about politics and current events.
Also, I'm not surprised that so many late night shakeups in such a relatively short amount of time have led to across the board lower ratings for the new guys in new slots. Late night shows are very tied to routine and a standard format, and once you've shaken people out of their routines, it's tough to get them to sign on to a new one.
posted by yasaman at 11:22 AM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, I'm not surprised that so many late night shakeups in such a relatively short amount of time have led to across the board lower ratings for the new guys in new slots. Late night shows are very tied to routine and a standard format, and once you've shaken people out of their routines, it's tough to get them to sign on to a new one.
posted by yasaman at 11:22 AM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
Not mentioned AT ALL is the fact that he is strongly supported by The Roots
Seconding filthylightthief. The answer to "How Jimmy Fallon Crushed Stephen Colbert (and Everyone Else in Late Night)" is "The Roots."
Why does that article not mention The Roots? It's a weirdly conspicuous omission.
posted by desuetude at 11:28 AM on December 17, 2015 [7 favorites]
Seconding filthylightthief. The answer to "How Jimmy Fallon Crushed Stephen Colbert (and Everyone Else in Late Night)" is "The Roots."
Why does that article not mention The Roots? It's a weirdly conspicuous omission.
posted by desuetude at 11:28 AM on December 17, 2015 [7 favorites]
Man, they are really reaching for Hitler references these days.
Benjamin Franklin: A Contract With The Devil
An exclusive History Channel special that reveals the true meaning behind Benjamin Franklin's cartoons, and how they reveal a secret occult code that hides the secrets of how Masons brokered a treaty with aliens in 1768, how Himmler's desperate search for Franklin's magic ink recipe almost gave the Nazis the secret to invisible body paint for an undetectable, but naked, SS recon division, how Canadian scientists turned Himmler's ink research into something you find in every bottle of drain cleaner sold today, and what some wacko has to say about bifocals being the key to interdenominational travel and why governments around the world are denying the truth about it to all Humanity.
posted by chambers at 11:52 AM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
Benjamin Franklin: A Contract With The Devil
An exclusive History Channel special that reveals the true meaning behind Benjamin Franklin's cartoons, and how they reveal a secret occult code that hides the secrets of how Masons brokered a treaty with aliens in 1768, how Himmler's desperate search for Franklin's magic ink recipe almost gave the Nazis the secret to invisible body paint for an undetectable, but naked, SS recon division, how Canadian scientists turned Himmler's ink research into something you find in every bottle of drain cleaner sold today, and what some wacko has to say about bifocals being the key to interdenominational travel and why governments around the world are denying the truth about it to all Humanity.
posted by chambers at 11:52 AM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
robocop is bleeding: "Today I learned that the average Hollywood Reader commenter is 65 years old and constipated."
Wow, no kidding. They seem to think that the problem is that Jimmy Fallon's father didn't discipline him enough. And that kids get trophies in soccer without winning. And because liberals are trying to shut down talk radio.
posted by octothorpe at 11:55 AM on December 17, 2015
Wow, no kidding. They seem to think that the problem is that Jimmy Fallon's father didn't discipline him enough. And that kids get trophies in soccer without winning. And because liberals are trying to shut down talk radio.
posted by octothorpe at 11:55 AM on December 17, 2015
Fallon is the least sincere, unfunny man to ever have a tv show--latenight, daytime, primetime or public access. No one sounds more like he's lying when he laughs than Fallon, with the possible exception of Seinfeld.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 12:11 PM on December 17, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 12:11 PM on December 17, 2015 [15 favorites]
Celebrities are not very interesting to begin with, but as far as entertaining and enlightening celebrity interviews go there is only one real game in town: Howard Stern. 5 minute, self-promotional, sanitized for network TV interviews are basically worthless. And even Terry Gross's in depth interviews are limited by her own (distancing) blandness and seriousness and the family-friendly standards of public radio. Stern interviews are way more fun, funny, intimate, and probing than any other major interviewer. (few people have SiriusXM, but youtube has oodles of examples)
posted by dgaicun at 12:18 PM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by dgaicun at 12:18 PM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
I've always found Fallon really phony (leftover judgment from his SNL-era habit of breaking character?), although God knows I'd be faking my way through enjoying talking to 75% of the people he has on his show.
Fallon seems to have stumbled into his formula mostly by luck, but falling into success seems to be his MO.
Heh
posted by sallybrown at 12:25 PM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Fallon seems to have stumbled into his formula mostly by luck, but falling into success seems to be his MO.
Heh
posted by sallybrown at 12:25 PM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Colbert's late show is so good I deleted my TiVo passes for Fallon and Kimmel because they are not in the same league. My dad was a TV comedy writer who would always be trying versions of his topical jokes on us, so I know good material when I hear it, and I really love to see good stuff so well delivered.
He's also a great interviewer and presenter. That show was polished from day 1, despite the major difference in format from The Colbert Report.
posted by w0mbat at 12:25 PM on December 17, 2015 [7 favorites]
He's also a great interviewer and presenter. That show was polished from day 1, despite the major difference in format from The Colbert Report.
posted by w0mbat at 12:25 PM on December 17, 2015 [7 favorites]
Why does that article not mention The Roots? It's a weirdly conspicuous omission.
posted by desuetude
The answer's in the second-to-last paragraph: His ratings lead is dominant and, at least so far, unaffected by the cloud that has passed over his sunny presentation: tabloid speculation about the dual falls that damaged his hands.
This article is actually about Fallon's functional abilities and continuing employment, to counteract a year's worth of such speculation. (Whatever speculative, erm, cloud that might surround The Roots' alleged substance abuse, they're excellent musicians who protect their hands.)
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:26 PM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by desuetude
The answer's in the second-to-last paragraph: His ratings lead is dominant and, at least so far, unaffected by the cloud that has passed over his sunny presentation: tabloid speculation about the dual falls that damaged his hands.
This article is actually about Fallon's functional abilities and continuing employment, to counteract a year's worth of such speculation. (Whatever speculative, erm, cloud that might surround The Roots' alleged substance abuse, they're excellent musicians who protect their hands.)
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:26 PM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
I miss the Bugle.
posted by blue_beetle at 12:39 PM on December 17, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 12:39 PM on December 17, 2015 [7 favorites]
Graham Norton FTW. I wish more talk shows would have the guests on together.
posted by trillian at 12:44 PM on December 17, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by trillian at 12:44 PM on December 17, 2015 [6 favorites]
Colbert is too political for a wider audience. And the numbers show that he less Republican viewers. But it is a political year with Donald Trump leading the polls for the Republican nomination. I mean....... how can you avoid making jokes about this situation?
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:47 PM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:47 PM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
trillian: James Corden on the Late Late Show does.
posted by PenDevil at 12:47 PM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by PenDevil at 12:47 PM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
Fallon has done some cute bits, to be sure, but part of me will never, ever forgive him for having Sarah Palin on his show.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:02 PM on December 17, 2015
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:02 PM on December 17, 2015
I really wish people would stop trying to make "Stern is a good interviewer" a thing. He's not a good interviewer. He's not. It's fine if you like listening to shock jocks, but stop trying to justify your love of a gross dude who thinks rape victims ask for it and has donned blackface.
posted by pxe2000 at 1:27 PM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by pxe2000 at 1:27 PM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
What's odd to me is that though Fallon's alcoholism is kind of an open secret, why does no one want to acknowledge what looks to me like a blatant enthusiasm for cocaine? He's the walking personification of a giant tongue licking a giant set of teeth.
Carson enjoyed a drink or two, certainly, but he could do a card trick and ride a camel on the air without sweating it. Whereas the last I checked, if you type Jimmy Fallon's name into google, one of the autofill suggestions is "falls again."
Fallon's not unfunny and not untalented, but the whiff of flop sweat about him is hard to bear. He's SO desperate for my approval, and you know what? I'm a LOSER. I know Dave cared about the audience liking him, but I never got the sense he cared. Conan cares and pretends to be similarly flop sweaty, but he was also a weird genius who made that work.
Fallon's thing just bums me out immensely. Like he just does huge gorilla fingers of cocaine and guzzles vodka sodas, comes out and dances like Michael Jackson and falls down for the amusement of nobodies, and everyone is content to ignore what a huge psychic burden he is. Why can't we just be honest about him for a moment? For his sake?
I feel like if Fallon had a father figure to step in and say "Jim, cut the shit" it would do everyone a huge favor. Maybe just one older man in his life that doesn't call him "Jimmy."
posted by incomple at 1:27 PM on December 17, 2015 [21 favorites]
Carson enjoyed a drink or two, certainly, but he could do a card trick and ride a camel on the air without sweating it. Whereas the last I checked, if you type Jimmy Fallon's name into google, one of the autofill suggestions is "falls again."
Fallon's not unfunny and not untalented, but the whiff of flop sweat about him is hard to bear. He's SO desperate for my approval, and you know what? I'm a LOSER. I know Dave cared about the audience liking him, but I never got the sense he cared. Conan cares and pretends to be similarly flop sweaty, but he was also a weird genius who made that work.
Fallon's thing just bums me out immensely. Like he just does huge gorilla fingers of cocaine and guzzles vodka sodas, comes out and dances like Michael Jackson and falls down for the amusement of nobodies, and everyone is content to ignore what a huge psychic burden he is. Why can't we just be honest about him for a moment? For his sake?
I feel like if Fallon had a father figure to step in and say "Jim, cut the shit" it would do everyone a huge favor. Maybe just one older man in his life that doesn't call him "Jimmy."
posted by incomple at 1:27 PM on December 17, 2015 [21 favorites]
I largely agree with w0mbat, Colbert is really polished, and contrasting him with the talk show hosts reveals why no one takes late night television seriously outside of the Daily Show: They're all vapidly yearning for viral gold. Colbert is too smart for late night? Why the hell shouldn't you be smart? We live in an age where dumb entertainment is a youtube or vine click away, where anyone with a smart phone can produce something stupid and funny. I pay for TV, and I would rather people put on a polished, well written show with insightful humor.
One of the things Colbert excels in is the art of the awkwardness, and he revels in it. I wasn't a fan of that at first, but if you approach it as a person with anxiety, it's just as great as the humor of the Office or Recs and Parks. His conversations with Jon Batiste are hilarious, they play up the awkwardness to cringing perfection. I'm too empathetic to watch The Office or Modern Family without the need to change the channel because I'm getting too embarrassed for them, but a couple of minutes of Colbert and Batiste making everyone in the audience feel uncomfortable is great.
And you can tell that when he has entertainment guests on, he wants to make them uncomfortable, getting them out of their comfort zone (that interview with J.Law was on point) to get them to open up. And with "intelligent" guests, he delves into their work to show us the insights. And of course with political guests he tries to roasts them.
His new show is vastly different from his old show, but he's trying to change late night, and so far I'm enjoying it. And while I skip over interviews with people I don't care about (usually because I'm not going to watch their film or read their book and care even less about their personal lives) or music I wouldn't get into, I still watch it every day for the "news" segments, because it's so damn well written (even for a PG audience).
posted by numaner at 1:40 PM on December 17, 2015 [13 favorites]
One of the things Colbert excels in is the art of the awkwardness, and he revels in it. I wasn't a fan of that at first, but if you approach it as a person with anxiety, it's just as great as the humor of the Office or Recs and Parks. His conversations with Jon Batiste are hilarious, they play up the awkwardness to cringing perfection. I'm too empathetic to watch The Office or Modern Family without the need to change the channel because I'm getting too embarrassed for them, but a couple of minutes of Colbert and Batiste making everyone in the audience feel uncomfortable is great.
And you can tell that when he has entertainment guests on, he wants to make them uncomfortable, getting them out of their comfort zone (that interview with J.Law was on point) to get them to open up. And with "intelligent" guests, he delves into their work to show us the insights. And of course with political guests he tries to roasts them.
His new show is vastly different from his old show, but he's trying to change late night, and so far I'm enjoying it. And while I skip over interviews with people I don't care about (usually because I'm not going to watch their film or read their book and care even less about their personal lives) or music I wouldn't get into, I still watch it every day for the "news" segments, because it's so damn well written (even for a PG audience).
posted by numaner at 1:40 PM on December 17, 2015 [13 favorites]
" I know Dave cared about the audience liking him, but I never got the sense he cared. Conan cares and pretends to be similarly flop sweaty, but he was also a weird genius who made that work."
Both Dave and Conan are much, much better as underdogs. Moving to CBS and getting an actual budget really killed a lot of Dave's show, because so much of it was based on being cheap and weirdly desperate (see: Stupid Human Tricks). The problem was that once he had a budget, so much of his schtick was still that the network was fucking him over, and it just seemed out of touch and like he was unable to use the massive platform he was given.
Conan seemed like he'd have the chops to actually make the Tonight Show fun and weird and smart, but unfortunately, he was sentenced to serve at TBS for crimes against television.
posted by klangklangston at 1:42 PM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Both Dave and Conan are much, much better as underdogs. Moving to CBS and getting an actual budget really killed a lot of Dave's show, because so much of it was based on being cheap and weirdly desperate (see: Stupid Human Tricks). The problem was that once he had a budget, so much of his schtick was still that the network was fucking him over, and it just seemed out of touch and like he was unable to use the massive platform he was given.
Conan seemed like he'd have the chops to actually make the Tonight Show fun and weird and smart, but unfortunately, he was sentenced to serve at TBS for crimes against television.
posted by klangklangston at 1:42 PM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
How Jimmy Fallon Crushed Stephen Colbert (and Everyone Else in Late Night)
Thank goodness someone's talking about this - Colbert's been on for ALMOST FOUR MONTHS already. Late Night is a very ritualized martial art form of TV comedy and Colbert's as good as The Chosen One for me, he just has to let it mellow for about twenty years.
It's not about new and different, it's about theme, monologue, sketch, guest, second guest/second sketch and musical guest. Sure, Letterman was good or even great in the first ten years but he didn't really start striding like a giant until the last five years or so.
Craigyferg come home
posted by petebest at 1:51 PM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Thank goodness someone's talking about this - Colbert's been on for ALMOST FOUR MONTHS already. Late Night is a very ritualized martial art form of TV comedy and Colbert's as good as The Chosen One for me, he just has to let it mellow for about twenty years.
It's not about new and different, it's about theme, monologue, sketch, guest, second guest/second sketch and musical guest. Sure, Letterman was good or even great in the first ten years but he didn't really start striding like a giant until the last five years or so.
Craigyferg come home
posted by petebest at 1:51 PM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Colbert needs more candidates to drop out, since I want more Hungry for Power Games.
posted by ckape at 1:52 PM on December 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by ckape at 1:52 PM on December 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
I like Colbert interviewing politicos, but he seems lost when trying to talk to actors about their new movie or anybody who is hawking a book, TV show, or other product. But I like Larry Wilmore's show better than any of the others, so I guess that means I'm just out of it.
posted by CCBC at 2:09 PM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by CCBC at 2:09 PM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
I feel like if Fallon had a father figure to step in and say "Jim, cut the shit" it would do everyone a huge favor. Maybe just one older man in his life that doesn't call him "Jimmy."
"Tommy Lee Jones Tells Jimmy Fallon He Doesn't Want To Play Any Of His Little Fucking Games"
posted by Iridic at 2:18 PM on December 17, 2015 [8 favorites]
"Tommy Lee Jones Tells Jimmy Fallon He Doesn't Want To Play Any Of His Little Fucking Games"
posted by Iridic at 2:18 PM on December 17, 2015 [8 favorites]
That Conan writer who got in trouble on Twitter for calling Fallon "prom king humor" kind of nailed it for me. Going back to SNL, when women wouldn't shut up about how dreeeamy Fallon was, I always felt like I was stuck watching a school assembly or something where Mr. Popular was giggling his way through hacky comedy bits and everybody but me was busting a gut. I don't actively dislike Fallon the way I used to (it helps that I don't have to hear about how dreeeamy he is anymore) but all the games and stuff he does on his show seem even more like (harmless) prom king/frat boy stuff. I mean, he is literally stuffing phone booths on that show. I'd be fine with it, but that stuff has unfortunately been a game changer for talk shows and these days a host having an actual grown-up conversation with a guest seems like the exception. No way in hell would Dick Cavett's old show fly now. If MERV GRIFFIN showed up now he'd probably seem too edgy and dry for the genre.
But I'm also disappointed with Colbert's new show. After Strangers with Candy, The Daily Show and The Colbert Report, I got used to thinking of Colbert as this guy who was just always funny and clever, who never disappointed and rose to every occasion. When his writers went on strike you hardly knew, because he was just that good on his feet. I figured he was going to knock the ball out of the park with this new show, but instead I get the same feeling I got when Letterman moved from NBC to CBS. The energy is just different, it's louder and brighter and broader, with more dad jokes. Colbert is a sharp guy and I can't picture him ever truly phoning it in the way Letterman eventually did, but I do feel like he's attempting to pander a bit. His political commentary just doesn't cut as deep as it did when he was speaking through his conservative blowhard character and he keeps trying to play up a conservative side that I don't believe is sincere. (When he was interviewing Jeb!, for example, he said there was a "not zero" chance he would vote for the guy. That's horseshit. Come on, Stephen Colbert is never, ever voting for Jeb fucking Bush.)
And that poor bandleader dude has got to go. He and Colbert have an astonishing lack of chemistry. I thought Colbert could have a conversation with anybody, but every damn night he comes out and tries to talk to the bandleader and it just dies. What Colbert desperately needs is a Paul Shaffer, somebody who can do the music but is also fun to watch and a good improviser. And if Colbert brought in Amy Sedaris as his Ed McMahon/Andy Richter, I'm convinced this show would demolish late night. Who would ever watch Fallon playing egg tossing games with an uncomfortable-looking James Spader, if they could flip a few channels over and watch Amy derail Stephen's interviews with weirdo stories about her rabbits? (With Paul Dinello as bandleader. He could learn to play the tambourine or something, I don't care.)
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:57 PM on December 17, 2015 [27 favorites]
But I'm also disappointed with Colbert's new show. After Strangers with Candy, The Daily Show and The Colbert Report, I got used to thinking of Colbert as this guy who was just always funny and clever, who never disappointed and rose to every occasion. When his writers went on strike you hardly knew, because he was just that good on his feet. I figured he was going to knock the ball out of the park with this new show, but instead I get the same feeling I got when Letterman moved from NBC to CBS. The energy is just different, it's louder and brighter and broader, with more dad jokes. Colbert is a sharp guy and I can't picture him ever truly phoning it in the way Letterman eventually did, but I do feel like he's attempting to pander a bit. His political commentary just doesn't cut as deep as it did when he was speaking through his conservative blowhard character and he keeps trying to play up a conservative side that I don't believe is sincere. (When he was interviewing Jeb!, for example, he said there was a "not zero" chance he would vote for the guy. That's horseshit. Come on, Stephen Colbert is never, ever voting for Jeb fucking Bush.)
And that poor bandleader dude has got to go. He and Colbert have an astonishing lack of chemistry. I thought Colbert could have a conversation with anybody, but every damn night he comes out and tries to talk to the bandleader and it just dies. What Colbert desperately needs is a Paul Shaffer, somebody who can do the music but is also fun to watch and a good improviser. And if Colbert brought in Amy Sedaris as his Ed McMahon/Andy Richter, I'm convinced this show would demolish late night. Who would ever watch Fallon playing egg tossing games with an uncomfortable-looking James Spader, if they could flip a few channels over and watch Amy derail Stephen's interviews with weirdo stories about her rabbits? (With Paul Dinello as bandleader. He could learn to play the tambourine or something, I don't care.)
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:57 PM on December 17, 2015 [27 favorites]
stop trying to justify your love of a gross dude who thinks rape victims ask for it
Hm. I used to listen to Stern's show pretty regularly, and while much of what he says could be classified as gross, I don't recall ever hearing him say anything that would come close to making him a rape apologist. If anything, his pro-death penalty stance and neo-Nixonian views on crime-and-punishment verge on right-wing cartoonishness at times. But I could be mistaken.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:57 PM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
Hm. I used to listen to Stern's show pretty regularly, and while much of what he says could be classified as gross, I don't recall ever hearing him say anything that would come close to making him a rape apologist. If anything, his pro-death penalty stance and neo-Nixonian views on crime-and-punishment verge on right-wing cartoonishness at times. But I could be mistaken.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:57 PM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
And that poor bandleader dude has got to go. He and Colbert have an astonishing lack of chemistry. I thought Colbert could have a conversation with anybody, but every damn night he comes out and tries to talk to the bandleader and it just dies.
That's part of the bit, to make it as awkward as possible. I'm unable to look some up right now, but there's an interview where Colbert lets slip that he loves being uncomfortable and I think Batiste works right into that.
Aside from that though, Jon Batiste and Stay Human is a great improvisational band that works well with most musical guests when they need a backing band, not to mention they frequently have on guests house artist that will play/sing with the band the whole time. Ceelo Green did it a few weeks ago. From what I've seen Colbert is stronger in terms of musical theater and classic styles, and he needs Batiste to bring in the younger, more poppy crowd.
posted by numaner at 3:25 PM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
That's part of the bit, to make it as awkward as possible. I'm unable to look some up right now, but there's an interview where Colbert lets slip that he loves being uncomfortable and I think Batiste works right into that.
Aside from that though, Jon Batiste and Stay Human is a great improvisational band that works well with most musical guests when they need a backing band, not to mention they frequently have on guests house artist that will play/sing with the band the whole time. Ceelo Green did it a few weeks ago. From what I've seen Colbert is stronger in terms of musical theater and classic styles, and he needs Batiste to bring in the younger, more poppy crowd.
posted by numaner at 3:25 PM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
Not at all surprised MeFites like Craig Ferguson so much. Come to HBO, Craig!
posted by persona au gratin at 3:31 PM on December 17, 2015
posted by persona au gratin at 3:31 PM on December 17, 2015
And if Colbert brought in Amy Sedaris as his Ed McMahon/Andy Richter, I'm convinced this show would demolish late night.
Wow, that is the best suggestion. How did my mind never consider this?
posted by dgaicun at 4:28 PM on December 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
Wow, that is the best suggestion. How did my mind never consider this?
posted by dgaicun at 4:28 PM on December 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
stop trying to justify your love of a gross dude who thinks rape victims ask for it and has donned blackface.
I don't know about the rape victim part, but it's worth noting that he donned blackface on Petey Greene's tv show. As awful as blackface is, I think it's pretty obvious that wearing it on Petey Greene's show, with Petey cracking up, is entirely different than what you're probably accusing him of.
posted by cell divide at 4:43 PM on December 17, 2015
I don't know about the rape victim part, but it's worth noting that he donned blackface on Petey Greene's tv show. As awful as blackface is, I think it's pretty obvious that wearing it on Petey Greene's show, with Petey cracking up, is entirely different than what you're probably accusing him of.
posted by cell divide at 4:43 PM on December 17, 2015
About Howard Stern: "Is Howard Stern going soft or just getting sharper?"
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:53 PM on December 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:53 PM on December 17, 2015 [4 favorites]
What's odd to me is that though Fallon's alcoholism is kind of an open secret, why does no one want to acknowledge what looks to me like a blatant enthusiasm for cocaine? He's the walking personification of a giant tongue licking a giant set of teeth.
This. Every time I watch his show, I mostly see a guy who really likes cocaine and has obviously had a lot of it today.
I was watching Colbert's show regularly following its premiere--fighting CBS' crappy website--but he lost me with his Week of Catholic Talk back when the pope was in the U.S. So dull and solipsistic for a wide focus late night show.
posted by LooseFilter at 5:07 PM on December 17, 2015
This. Every time I watch his show, I mostly see a guy who really likes cocaine and has obviously had a lot of it today.
I was watching Colbert's show regularly following its premiere--fighting CBS' crappy website--but he lost me with his Week of Catholic Talk back when the pope was in the U.S. So dull and solipsistic for a wide focus late night show.
posted by LooseFilter at 5:07 PM on December 17, 2015
> I mostly see a guy who really likes cocaine and has obviously had a lot of it today.
I googled signs of cocaine abuse and nothing matched. Could somebody please share the insider tells because this seems like something it would be really great to know.
posted by bukvich at 5:34 PM on December 17, 2015
I googled signs of cocaine abuse and nothing matched. Could somebody please share the insider tells because this seems like something it would be really great to know.
posted by bukvich at 5:34 PM on December 17, 2015
I googled signs of cocaine abuse and nothing matched. Could somebody please share the insider tells because this seems like something it would be really great to know.
Admittedly I'm not an expert, but as someone who has dabbled in heavy stimulants, and as someone with many associates who have dabbled (and continue to dabble), it just feels very right. Ignoring that his whole persona is that of a wide-eyed manic people-pleaser, it's unusual for someone (of any age, much less past forty, 15+ years into a showbiz career) to be almost literally vibrating with energy whenever they are in front of a camera.
One gets the distinct impression that if you went over to his place, he'd very discreetly ask "You party?" and the next thing you know, it'd be dawn and you'd be sitting Indian style in front of his stereo with records splayed all over the place.
But to answer your question, I can actually see how "abuse" might be too big a word for what I'm describing. It's very possible (if probably not indefinitely sustainable) to have a wildly successful career while dealing with much uglier habits, and as far as I know, no one has anything unkind to say about him. On the contrary, everyone seems to agree that he's a sweetheart. So whether he's harboring an addiction or not, none of this is a judgment. Jimmy can keep doing Jimmy.
And though I agree with Ursula Hitler's first paragraph and can personally barely stomach an entire segment of his show, I'm well aware there are far worse people who could be enjoying his success. (He could be Craig Kilborn, for example.) I'll even cop to being harshly ungenerous when I called him "not untalented" in my earlier comment — I think he's almost certainly the most talented late night host since Carson, speaking strictly in terms of his abilities as a performer.
It's just interesting to me that him being a publicly sloppy drunk is acknowledged but gets a pass, when this side of his trip seems equally obvious but I see so few mentions of it in the media.
posted by incomple at 6:16 PM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Admittedly I'm not an expert, but as someone who has dabbled in heavy stimulants, and as someone with many associates who have dabbled (and continue to dabble), it just feels very right. Ignoring that his whole persona is that of a wide-eyed manic people-pleaser, it's unusual for someone (of any age, much less past forty, 15+ years into a showbiz career) to be almost literally vibrating with energy whenever they are in front of a camera.
One gets the distinct impression that if you went over to his place, he'd very discreetly ask "You party?" and the next thing you know, it'd be dawn and you'd be sitting Indian style in front of his stereo with records splayed all over the place.
But to answer your question, I can actually see how "abuse" might be too big a word for what I'm describing. It's very possible (if probably not indefinitely sustainable) to have a wildly successful career while dealing with much uglier habits, and as far as I know, no one has anything unkind to say about him. On the contrary, everyone seems to agree that he's a sweetheart. So whether he's harboring an addiction or not, none of this is a judgment. Jimmy can keep doing Jimmy.
And though I agree with Ursula Hitler's first paragraph and can personally barely stomach an entire segment of his show, I'm well aware there are far worse people who could be enjoying his success. (He could be Craig Kilborn, for example.) I'll even cop to being harshly ungenerous when I called him "not untalented" in my earlier comment — I think he's almost certainly the most talented late night host since Carson, speaking strictly in terms of his abilities as a performer.
It's just interesting to me that him being a publicly sloppy drunk is acknowledged but gets a pass, when this side of his trip seems equally obvious but I see so few mentions of it in the media.
posted by incomple at 6:16 PM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
...Week of Catholic Talk back when the pope was in the U.S. So dull and solipsistic for a wide focus late night show.
A lot of his guests are unlikely for a "wide focus late night show". Just last week, he had Lin-Manuel Miranda of Hamilton cast members of Downton Abbey, authors George Saunders and Michael Lewis, and this week he's had Doris Kearns Goodwin and Daniel Gilbert (who?). Large parts of his show are proudly non-mainstream (I think Charlie Rose has as many guests promoting their latest movie).
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:51 PM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
A lot of his guests are unlikely for a "wide focus late night show". Just last week, he had Lin-Manuel Miranda of Hamilton cast members of Downton Abbey, authors George Saunders and Michael Lewis, and this week he's had Doris Kearns Goodwin and Daniel Gilbert (who?). Large parts of his show are proudly non-mainstream (I think Charlie Rose has as many guests promoting their latest movie).
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:51 PM on December 17, 2015 [2 favorites]
I love Colbert and I enjoy his new show, but I have to admit, it is as I feared - they've taken the point out of his spear a little. He and Stewart were both absolutely brutal to the "status quo" item that they were taking down, no mercy whatsoever, to the point where I think it even turned some people off. I loved that! Overall this show feels a lot softer and friendlier. I still like it, I'll still watch it, but I'll continue to yearn for the apex predator of comedy that I feel like I lost. John Oliver is my new favorite, because if anything, his teeth have only gotten sharper.
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 7:01 PM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 7:01 PM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think it's genuinely kind of tragic that Colbert or Oliver didn't get the Daily Show gig. Yes, then we would have had to hear all the stuff about, "Oh, of COURSE it went to another white guy!!", but taking that stuff out of it either guy would have absolutely killed at that gig in a way that I don't think Trevor Noah ever will. (Noah is growing on me, but I don't expect to ever think he's more than "pretty OK".)
For Colbert in particular I think it would have been a much, much better fit for his talents than trying to be his own version of your standard talk show guy every night on CBS. He'd reached a point where he was ready to shed the Colbert character, and seeing him move a few doors down and into Stewart's old chair would have seemed completely natural. He could have really ripped into this election in a way he probably can't on CBS. I want Republicans to hate him more. These days having Republicans despise everything about you usually means you're doing something right.
Failing Colbert or Oliver, I think Larry Willmore would have also been good. His current show too often feels like it's trying to define itself by not doing the same stuff the Daily Show does, and it makes the whole show feel like watching somebody try to run a marathon backwards, constantly looking over his shoulder and trying not to trip over his feet. If he was just doing the straight up Daily Show, with a monologue, some correspondents and a guest, I think we'd all be happier and I know he would be.
I really wish some of the older DS correspondents (like Jason Jones, Samantha Bee and Aasif Mandvi) had stuck around a bit longer, because with Noah and all these other people finding their way I often feel like I'm watching some new show that wants to be The Daily Show, instead of actually being The Daily Show. Jordan Klemper feels like the old pro of the gang now, and he was always just that new guy who was trying to find his place with the vets who really knew what they were doing. He's become their go-to guy, and I don't feel like he is that guy. He hasn't quite grown into John Oliver's shoes yet.
I kind of wish Stewart and Colbert would just quietly go back to their old jobs, and we could all pretend like this mess never happened. Letterman and Craig Ferguson could come back to. But Leno can stay wherever the hell he went.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 7:40 PM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
For Colbert in particular I think it would have been a much, much better fit for his talents than trying to be his own version of your standard talk show guy every night on CBS. He'd reached a point where he was ready to shed the Colbert character, and seeing him move a few doors down and into Stewart's old chair would have seemed completely natural. He could have really ripped into this election in a way he probably can't on CBS. I want Republicans to hate him more. These days having Republicans despise everything about you usually means you're doing something right.
Failing Colbert or Oliver, I think Larry Willmore would have also been good. His current show too often feels like it's trying to define itself by not doing the same stuff the Daily Show does, and it makes the whole show feel like watching somebody try to run a marathon backwards, constantly looking over his shoulder and trying not to trip over his feet. If he was just doing the straight up Daily Show, with a monologue, some correspondents and a guest, I think we'd all be happier and I know he would be.
I really wish some of the older DS correspondents (like Jason Jones, Samantha Bee and Aasif Mandvi) had stuck around a bit longer, because with Noah and all these other people finding their way I often feel like I'm watching some new show that wants to be The Daily Show, instead of actually being The Daily Show. Jordan Klemper feels like the old pro of the gang now, and he was always just that new guy who was trying to find his place with the vets who really knew what they were doing. He's become their go-to guy, and I don't feel like he is that guy. He hasn't quite grown into John Oliver's shoes yet.
I kind of wish Stewart and Colbert would just quietly go back to their old jobs, and we could all pretend like this mess never happened. Letterman and Craig Ferguson could come back to. But Leno can stay wherever the hell he went.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 7:40 PM on December 17, 2015 [3 favorites]
But, but Leno was yet to retrieve the Golden Fleece!
posted by clavdivs at 8:35 PM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 8:35 PM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
discopolo: “I don't stay up to watch Fallon, and I find him a little unfunny, but he's always kind and generous to his guests.”It's funny you say that because I always feel like Fallon never lets his guests shine. It's always about him and how funny and clever and talented he is.
posted by ob1quixote at 8:50 PM on December 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's different for me, Questlove and The Roots have always had a relaxed, go-with-the-flow vibe. Jimmy Kimmel loves silly, and I love him for that. Morgan Freeman struggled, but Helen Mirren rolled with it and the whole show bloomed. I don't go to that show for any heavy lifting. I just roll with it.
Colbert on the other hand, has taken a bit to settle in. New band did a walk through of NOLA on one segment and they have settled in and both the band leader-who seems new to TV-and Colbert, have relaxed, but that took time to develop. Jennifer Hudson's appearance highlighted that the vibe had shifted toward the musicians relaxing into their roles. Colbert is perfecting his verbal dance moves with his guests. Jennifer Lawrence and Samantha Powers felt more natural than Michael Moore, however I wouldn't be surprised if MM is known as an unguided missile as an interviewee. Colbert has better coverage for topics I track, and I look to Kimmel for comic interludes.
posted by childofTethys at 9:57 PM on December 17, 2015
Colbert on the other hand, has taken a bit to settle in. New band did a walk through of NOLA on one segment and they have settled in and both the band leader-who seems new to TV-and Colbert, have relaxed, but that took time to develop. Jennifer Hudson's appearance highlighted that the vibe had shifted toward the musicians relaxing into their roles. Colbert is perfecting his verbal dance moves with his guests. Jennifer Lawrence and Samantha Powers felt more natural than Michael Moore, however I wouldn't be surprised if MM is known as an unguided missile as an interviewee. Colbert has better coverage for topics I track, and I look to Kimmel for comic interludes.
posted by childofTethys at 9:57 PM on December 17, 2015
I love Stephen Colbert. But I must confess that I preferred him in 30 minute shows as opposed to an hour. There seems to be a lot of fluff/filler. (But the Acro Cats were amazing!)
Re: Howard Stern: he just apologized to Adam Fucking Sandler. Good god.
Re: Letterman: here's an interesting interview he recently gave to the Whitefish Review about his life post-Late Show.
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 10:38 PM on December 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
Re: Howard Stern: he just apologized to Adam Fucking Sandler. Good god.
Re: Letterman: here's an interesting interview he recently gave to the Whitefish Review about his life post-Late Show.
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 10:38 PM on December 17, 2015 [5 favorites]
Jesus, we're writing obits for Colbert already? Fallon's the same show it was at the later time slot, that means he's being turning the crank and fixing the bits for what, 5 years? Colbert's doing something new to him and his team. His interviews a bit all over the place, the ones that work work really well, but far too many miss still. But the show is SMART humor. I hope people let it go for a while.
I think the actual venue is a bit weird. And taking more time to adjust to than I thought. I suspect they opened the theatre up TOO much. It feels cavernous, and the talk show's seem to like closer quarters. I'm glad they didn't try and recreate The Roots (unpossible). If the band on Colbert becomes less integral, so be it. (Though I really really like the leader guy. He seems fun)
I DVR them both, and catch up on weekends. They both make me laugh multiple times throughout the week.
PS: I miss Conan. I'm glad his team works the internet pretty well. I get to see him periodically still.
posted by DigDoug at 7:58 AM on December 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the actual venue is a bit weird. And taking more time to adjust to than I thought. I suspect they opened the theatre up TOO much. It feels cavernous, and the talk show's seem to like closer quarters. I'm glad they didn't try and recreate The Roots (unpossible). If the band on Colbert becomes less integral, so be it. (Though I really really like the leader guy. He seems fun)
I DVR them both, and catch up on weekends. They both make me laugh multiple times throughout the week.
PS: I miss Conan. I'm glad his team works the internet pretty well. I get to see him periodically still.
posted by DigDoug at 7:58 AM on December 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
I really like Colbert's show. It's the only late night talk show that I make a point out of watching. Maybe I'm an outlier but I am a datapoint.
posted by djeo at 11:50 AM on December 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by djeo at 11:50 AM on December 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm approaching geezerhood. Carson used to have authors on - not just big names, but there was often a 3rd guest late in the show to talk about his (usually male authors) new book. Loved Dick Cavett, where there was articulate conversation, interesting artists of all kinds; it was considered intellectual but Cavett was also funny. I saw Honey Coles dance; memorable even many years later. They were late night talk shows. Fallon is amusing in a schoolboy way, endearing, but shallow. Colbert hasn't found his footing, and I find him difficult to watch. I miss Letterman so much. Since I was a teenager, I've liked staying up late and being a witness to interesting conversations, performances, maybe a few skits or silly bits, stupid pet tricks, the velcro wall. Now it's *all* silliness; I miss intelligence and conversation. Please insert a kids:lawn comment of your choice.
posted by theora55 at 5:42 PM on December 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 5:42 PM on December 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
One veteran late-night writer calls him a very funny guy doing a quality show, but "maybe too smart for a mass audience?" Another longtime producer says, simply, "He needs to be more commercial, more social media friendly."
This is why we can't have not-always-so-nice things.
posted by drlith at 8:06 AM on December 20, 2015
This is why we can't have not-always-so-nice things.
posted by drlith at 8:06 AM on December 20, 2015
I miss intelligence and conversation.
In case folks haven't seen it, a great modern example is Craig Ferguson's conversation with Stephen Fry back in 2010. Start with Part 1 (of 4).
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:17 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
In case folks haven't seen it, a great modern example is Craig Ferguson's conversation with Stephen Fry back in 2010. Start with Part 1 (of 4).
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:17 AM on December 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
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posted by GuyZero at 9:36 AM on December 17, 2015 [33 favorites]