Wherever this flag is flown

January 26, 2016 10:30 AM

In November, Brian Donohue of NJ.com asked for submissions to redesign the New Jersey state flag. He received almost 400. (photo gallery is in video form, with music)

While the current flag features New Jersey's coat of arms, Donohue and others believe there is significant room for improvement.

posted by kimberussell (63 comments total)

Bag of ham at :14.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:33 AM on January 26, 2016 [4 favorites]

Oh yeah, like people from New Jersey have never seen a fat man making out. It's on the freakin' state flag!
posted by cmfletcher at 10:37 AM on January 26, 2016

> The coat of arms contains a horse's head; beneath that is a helmet, showing that New Jersey governs itself, and it has three plows on a shield to highlight the state's agriculture tradition, which shows why the state has the nickname "Garden State". The two Goddesses represent the state motto, "Liberty and Prosperity". Liberty is on the left. She is holding a staff with a liberty cap on it...

liberty cap < - > toque
freedom fries < - > french fries
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:37 AM on January 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

I agree that there is room for improvement. There is also room for improvement with the way they're displaying the submissions. A video is a bad choice.
posted by demiurge at 10:37 AM on January 26, 2016 [4 favorites]

The coat of arms contains a horse's head

Showing that New Jersey negotiates from a position of strength.
posted by zamboni at 10:47 AM on January 26, 2016 [19 favorites]

Wonder if there were any Greendale or City College flags?
posted by resurrexit at 10:52 AM on January 26, 2016

I've never been to New Jersey, so my opinion is uninformed. Saying that, I think the true winner is the picture of a pig with a bucket on its head.
posted by Elly Vortex at 10:52 AM on January 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

The Springsteen profile one at :29 is awesome. I was thinking just an orange traffic cone on a grey-green-blue tricolor background.
posted by jimmythefish at 10:52 AM on January 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

The Springsteen profile one at :29 is awesome.

True fact: In 1980 when I graduated from high school (Newark Academy ... not as badass as it sounds) there was a state requirement that you had to recite the words to Born to Run from memory before you could collect your diploma.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 10:59 AM on January 26, 2016 [3 favorites]

liberty cap < - > toque

It was a liberty cap before it was a toque. Symbol of freedom in Ancient Rome, later taken up by sans-culottes during the French Revolution and from there by later revolutionaries in solidarity. A lot of the US's official symbols were adopted during the same period; Columbia is usually depicted with a liberty cap.

As for the flags, I thought the Boss one had a certain something.
posted by Diablevert at 11:01 AM on January 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

They could improve it by replacing it with Provo Utah's old flag.

God, I love that flag. It needs a new home.
posted by cosmic.osmo at 11:03 AM on January 26, 2016

The flag should be a multimedia piece. Run a flatscreen up the flag pole and rotate through all of these.

Flag as animated GIF. Very 21st century.
posted by mazola at 11:08 AM on January 26, 2016 [5 favorites]

ZenMasterThis: "True fact: In 1980 when I graduated from high school (Newark Academy ... not as badass as it sounds) there was a state requirement that you had to recite the words to Born to Run from memory before you could collect your diploma."

As some point during that era (late seventies/early eighties) a state legislator proposed to make Born to Run the official state youth anthem until someone pointed out that the lyrics are about leaving New Jersey before it kills you.
posted by octothorpe at 11:12 AM on January 26, 2016 [9 favorites]

The flag should be a multimedia piece. Run a flatscreen up the flag pole and rotate through all of these.

Someone did this for the New Zealand Flag Consideration Project. They're down to the final 2 choices now but you can still browse all the orignal candidates on the flagtest page.
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:19 AM on January 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

I look forward to the NJ episode of "Sheldon Cooper Presents: Fun With Flags".
posted by narancia at 11:23 AM on January 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

Just use the cover of Born To Run and be done with it.
posted by rocket88 at 11:26 AM on January 26, 2016

Someone did this for the New Zealand Flag Consideration Project.

There's a fork of that project here that lets you use pictures from the web.

Just use the cover of Born To Run and be done with it.

It's a town full of losers
And I'm pulling out of here to win!
posted by zamboni at 11:31 AM on January 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

Probably the most striking visuals are the ones that use the traditional blue and yellow and feature the plough as a silhouette. That'd be a welcome change from the current state flag which is just a sad sack emblem. I'm skeptical of having three stars, as it validates a "Central Jersey" theory held by people like my wife who are from north of I-195 but don't want to admit that this is basically North Jersey.

(Basically: everything south of Trenton is unambiguously South Jersey, culturally tied to Philadelphia and dislikes the northern part of the state, which is a satellite of New York. But even though they're fans of the Giants and Yankees, some combination of Middlesex, Monmouth, Somerset and Mercer counties don't want to be lumped in with North Jersey. Central Jersey, if it exists, would be where Princeton and Rutgers are.)
posted by graymouser at 11:44 AM on January 26, 2016 [3 favorites]

Once again, we're reminded that you can't spell vexillology without LOL.
posted by zamboni at 11:53 AM on January 26, 2016 [7 favorites]

Central Jersey 100 percent exists. I'm from there. We get Philly and New York radio stations with equally good reception, sports fans are about evenly split between New York and Philly teams, geographically equidistant between the two cities. Insofar as places in New Jersey tend to align themselves with New York or Philly, would places with split alignments not be considered central?

Three stars all the way, and I'm not even that attached to my Jersey roots.
posted by ActionPopulated at 11:54 AM on January 26, 2016 [8 favorites]

I look forward to the NJ episode of "Sheldon Cooper Presents: Fun With Flags".

Well, it's a good thing that Roman Mars got there first. And second And third.
posted by maudlin at 11:54 AM on January 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

Also, I love how these submissions are split between computer designs and ones where some 4th grade teacher was like "hey, there's a contest for a new state flag, everyone in class is going to draw something and submit it!"
posted by ActionPopulated at 12:00 PM on January 26, 2016 [3 favorites]

Insofar as places in New Jersey tend to align themselves with New York or Philly, would places with split alignments not be considered central?

Once you're north of I-195, basically the entire infrastructure of the state is pointed directly at New York. My wife's aunt lived in Red Bank for a couple of decades and commuted daily to Manhattan without driving. In a lot of cases it's faster and easier to get to NYC than it is to get from one town in NJ to another.
posted by graymouser at 12:03 PM on January 26, 2016

"Well, it's a good thing that Roman Mars got there first. And second And third." Thanks maudlin! I will be checking out that info now.
posted by narancia at 12:04 PM on January 26, 2016

So many good ideas here!

I'd go with either the Uncle Floyd one, some depiction of the Jersey Devil, or the Bagel-Creamcheese-Lox...
posted by Schmucko at 12:05 PM on January 26, 2016

I'm also from Central Jersey. It does exist, though I understand why people from away are blind to this nuance. Historically, it's a completely distinct settlement and culture, that only in the last 100 years got mushed between two behemoth cities and their suburban sprawl. But that's OK, I don't need to respect anybody's narrow region binary.

Brian Donohue, by the way, is one of my favorite journalists. He is really connected to the place from which he reports, and his projects show an empathy and understanding you can only come by honestly. He's very engaged on state- and local history-related Facebook pages and has been responsive in the past when I've emailed him about various projects. He's a great example of the best of NJ.

A lot of these flags are great. I like the goldfinch designs quite a bit.
posted by Miko at 12:08 PM on January 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

As a counterpoint, I am actually from Red Bank and no way do we align ourselves with NYC. Sure you can commute there, but we are not from there or of there.
posted by Miko at 12:09 PM on January 26, 2016

Bag of ham at :14.
Pork roll, I think you'll find.
posted by Wolfdog at 12:46 PM on January 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yeah, pork roll is the perfect meat to sit on top of egg and cheese on a breakfast sandwich. Even Wawa now accepts this.
posted by graymouser at 1:07 PM on January 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

Central New Jersey Doesn't Exist
posted by whuppy at 2:23 PM on January 26, 2016 [3 favorites]

Central New Jersey Doesn't Exist

Either that or it's an awesome land of unicorns and magic where all your dreams come true.
posted by Miko at 2:49 PM on January 26, 2016 [3 favorites]

New Jersey > New Zealand
Curious, I looked on wikipedia; to approximate, (Area NZ) = 12*(Area NJ), but (Population NJ) = 2*(Population NZ).
posted by fings at 2:56 PM on January 26, 2016

There are some really good ideas here. I really like that sort-of lightning-bolt way to symbolize the state's shape without just shoving a map of the state on there, though I'm not sure how well it works on a flag. The three stars might be a better fit. I think the blue and "buff" colors are absolutely the way to go, with only white or black if a third is needed (and a third should not be needed.) The use of flowers as a central symbol (mostly expressed through the crayon drawings) is a pretty damn solid one, especially given the state's nickname.

Honestly, I think for a classic, lasting feel, you want a blue field with a thick buff stripe from the bottom left to the upper right, with three blue stars equally spaced along the stripe. Just my 2¢, though.
posted by Navelgazer at 3:06 PM on January 26, 2016

And randomly I just saw Brian Donohue making a comment in support of our town library, so he grows more awesome by the minute.
posted by Miko at 3:11 PM on January 26, 2016

Central jersey is from about freehold/Old Bridge down to where the pine barrens start at least on the eastern side.
posted by Ferreous at 3:29 PM on January 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

To expound, it's an area that's not nearly so dense as north jersey, but it's certainly not pineys/atlantic city folk. Shit gets freaky once you reach Manchester.
posted by Ferreous at 3:33 PM on January 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

my top contenders are the pig with its head in a bucket, the dumpster fire, or the unappealing photo of a bagel sandwich
posted by burgerrr at 4:45 PM on January 26, 2016

Central Jersey goes from Union County down to about Toms River, and goes west to about Bridgewater/Princeton. That's according to me and apparently a lot of other people: NJ.com: Here are the North, Central and South Jersey borders
posted by lyssabee at 4:48 PM on January 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

The NJ.com map is nonsense. Anything that is due west of Staten Island is North Jersey in denial.

I've spent a lot of time in what would be Central Jersey, and being from South Jersey I can tell the difference. The bagels get better, the pretzels get fewer, people stop talking with a Philly accent ("wooder" for water, "crowns" for crayons), people who aren't contrarians or transplants openly root for the Giants – that's North Jersey, just a bit further out from the intense pull of New York.

The thing about Central Jersey is that it would all be north of I-195, which is where South Jerseyans draw the line for North Jersey. So it's really all about trying to say that North Jersey isn't all like Bergen and Essex Counties. Which, I mean, duh: South Jersey isn't all like Camden and Gloucester Counties either. But it's still much more of a distinct region as opposed to Central Jersey, which is like nailing Jell-O to a tree.
posted by graymouser at 5:13 PM on January 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

Nah, the map pretty much nails it. Central Jersey is a set of towns that date back to Protestant Dutch-English settlements of the earlier half of the 1600s and had independent existences as market towns - not commuter suburbs, at least until the 50s. There is a lot more housing stock that's pre-1900, and house lots tend to be a quarter acre or larger. You don't get that in Eastern North Jersey, which is much more dense and features much more post WWII construction and settlement and grew more rapidly in response to the expansion of Metro NY. The patterns of 20th century immigration were somewhat different, too, with Italian immigrants spreading more throughout the state, including South, but many more Irish settling in Central NJ because that is where the greatest concentration of domestic jobs were. Central Jersey is also the Northern end of the Shore, and it's quite distinct as well, because it's more of a local/daytripper/watermen's Shore, whereas South Jersey's Shore is much more about vacationers who come and stay for multiple days or a week, and the entire economy of those towns revolves around that tourism. That sort of economy was really last seen in Central Jersey in the 1890s.

As for Staten Island, growing up in Red Bank, I had no idea where it was until I was 19 or 20. It was part of NY, it was "up there," and it might as well have been in another time zone as far as we were concerned. It's not like people from Central NJ and people from Staten Island normally have anything to do with one another.

I know you kind of have to be from Central Jersey to understand what it is, but people from there do understand, and it does get grating to have people tell you it doesn't exist. It's distinct.
posted by Miko at 5:53 PM on January 26, 2016 [8 favorites]

I'm so glad Miko is around whenever there is NJ-related thread. And just in general.

I'm from Union County (Rahway), and people from there definitely consider it Central Jersey.

Are all the people who claim it doesn't exist from North Jersey, as laid out in the NJ.com map?
posted by defenestration at 5:57 PM on January 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

Congrats, you have an all male flag panel!
posted by terooot at 6:00 PM on January 26, 2016

Jackson, (trash drug city) represent!
posted by Ferreous at 6:14 PM on January 26, 2016

Representing South Brunswick here. Doesn't get much more central than that. My mom calls everything south of Trenton "down there" and everything north of maybe Woodbridge "up there."
posted by ActionPopulated at 6:19 PM on January 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

Apparently graymouser is South-Jerseyan and is a Central-Jersey doubter. So, it can happen.
posted by Miko at 6:30 PM on January 26, 2016

I agree with Miko, the map's pretty good. I grew up in Hunterdon County, south of Flemington, and agree that it's part of Central NJ.
posted by fings at 7:35 PM on January 26, 2016

Oh man, I wish I were an artist. Just copy the Last Supper with Sinatra as Jesus, Springsteen as Peter, and Bon Jovi as Judas. The remainder of the apostles could be a mix of the Rutgers O-Line, Kool & The Gang and an old guy in a wife-beater smoking a cigar.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:07 PM on January 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

I expected the background music to be a karaoke version of "Born to Run". Disappointed.
posted by betweenthebars at 11:33 PM on January 26, 2016

I am South Jersey through and through and yes, of course there is a Central Jersey! Misterussell works there. I'd describe it as more neutral. Not the "JOISEY" Sopranos type, not my "wooder" people. Just ... normal?

The flags amused me greatly, and I'm leaning toward a three-star design. I was going to try to submit one back in November but it's much harder than it looks!
posted by kimberussell at 3:55 AM on January 27, 2016

The reason I don't think there's a real Central Jersey is this: take Route 1 North from the Quakerbridge Mall up to the 1/9 Interchange, and then take Route 9 South until you reach 195 in Howell. It is a practically unbroken string of suburban commercial development hell. I've spent too much time on those stretches of road, and to me that's just as much North Jersey as anything in Essex or Bergen County.
posted by graymouser at 4:39 AM on January 27, 2016

I grew up in North Jersey but am pretty familiar with Central Jersey as my sister has lived in the New Brunswick area for many years but it's definitely a different thing. If nothing else, it looks very different. The North Jersey that I know is all rolling hills and valleys while Central Jersey is dead flat swampland.

I don't really have much to say about South Jersey as except for trips to Long Beech Island I don't think that I've ever been there.
posted by octothorpe at 5:05 AM on January 27, 2016

On the West Coast, Central Jersey goes down to Bordentown. I grew up 20 minutes downriver and didn't even know about its lovely main drag until a couple years ago.
posted by whuppy at 6:01 AM on January 27, 2016

I always associated Bordentown with gigantic sportsmen / gun stores (Sportsmen's Center, Harry's Army Navy) and think it's really the tip of South Jersey, which has a brand of gun nuttery that is anathema to Princeton or New Brunswick.
posted by graymouser at 6:07 AM on January 27, 2016

graymouser, that's hilarious because one of my only shopping trips up 130 was for some hard-to-find .22WMR ammunition.
posted by whuppy at 7:06 AM on January 27, 2016

The reason I don't think there's a real Central Jersey is this: take Route 1 North from the Quakerbridge Mall up to the 1/9 Interchange, and then take Route 9 South until you reach 195 in Howell.

Oh, come on. This is like people basing their entire opinion of the state of New Jersey on the Turnpike.

Besides, if I had to pick a highway, I'd say Route 22 is the true spiritual home of Central Jersey, along with all the streets that intersect it.
posted by asperity at 9:35 AM on January 27, 2016 [2 favorites]

It is a practically unbroken string of suburban commercial development hell.

It hasn't even been that way very long. Most of that development is mid-1990s and later. It was much more rural/small-town until recently. It's sad to me. But it's not North Jersey, even so.
posted by Miko at 10:18 AM on January 27, 2016

I would say Route 22 is more on the north edge of Central NJ. Route 27 has a better claim; about ten miles each way on either side of Route 27 makes up much of Central NJ in my mind.
posted by fings at 1:17 PM on January 27, 2016 [1 favorite]

zamboni: [includes link to new toy]

Never mind the flag contest.This is the best thing ever.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:18 PM on January 27, 2016 [2 favorites]

Route 27 has a better claim

Definitely a reasonable opinion. I think the Raritan Valley Line is the most Central of NJ Transit lines, though. Everything else eventually ends up in North or South Jersey, but when you board the train on Track 5 at Newark Penn Station, you know it's Central all the way. Well, except for wherever that line ends. Might be in Pennsylvania at that point.
posted by asperity at 2:27 PM on January 27, 2016

t miko: agreeing on it getting really built up. When we moved into jackson in the early nineties it was pretty rural on the south/west side and mostly 60-70s developments on the east/north. Now all of it is poorly built mcmansions. "Look I get it, you really want us to see your balcony/chandelier. We're all very proud of you"

That and heroin.
posted by Ferreous at 1:41 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Heroin is everywhere now.
posted by Miko at 6:20 AM on January 29, 2016

You don't say.
posted by grubi at 1:22 PM on February 3, 2016

It's interesting, yeah, and I can't get to any of those articles themselves because they're so old - but it's while living here in MA, in the last six months, that I've seen one person die before my eyes on a downtown street, and another nearly die in a restaurant but get a Narcan injection from firefighters that saved his life, and can barely walk down the street without seeing a really strung-out individual, and the town 20 minutes away led the nation in offering addicts amnesty from prosecution if they turn themselves in for aid. I mean, everyone knows it's a problem, but it doesn't seem to respect state boundaries much.
posted by Miko at 3:40 PM on February 3, 2016