No Thin Mints for Communion

February 23, 2016 5:47 PM

The St. Louis Archdiocese of the Roman Catholic Church has some issues with the Girl Scouts , particularly, "in regards to sex education and advocacy for “reproductive rights” (i.e. abortion and contraceptive access, even for minors)" (2-page PDF). Don't worry, though -- Archbishop Robert J. Carlson isn't telling you not to buy cookies: "Each person must act in accord with their conscience."

Oh, that's right, it's Girl Scout cookie season. Just remember to pair them with the right vintage, or the right brew.

posted by Etrigan (108 comments total)

It was the worst of times, it was the end of times.
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:48 PM on February 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

I assume that this pronouncement means that the Church has successfully addressed literally every other problem it faces and has worked its way down its "to do" list to "Girl Scouts and Contraception."
posted by Bromius at 5:58 PM on February 23, 2016 [71 favorites]

Last year I got Lemonades in Orlando and I thought I could get them in Tampa but apparently not :( people up north don't know what they're missing.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:02 PM on February 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

well i guess the st louis archdiocese of the rcc can eat mY ENTIRE FUCKING ASS INSTEAD THEN

i mean really can they not just take some time out of their busy schedules to go fuck themselves
posted by poffin boffin at 6:03 PM on February 23, 2016 [66 favorites]

The Church makes me feel like Michael in Godfather III, except reversed.
posted by sallybrown at 6:04 PM on February 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh, Archbishop, it's so sweet of you to be concerned about the state of my conscience, but isn't there a line in your holy book about the mote in my eye and the beam in yours?
posted by palomar at 6:05 PM on February 23, 2016 [22 favorites]

p.s. samoas forevarrrrrrrr
posted by palomar at 6:05 PM on February 23, 2016 [15 favorites]

I still have a frozen sleeve of Thin Mints in the freezer and an unopened box sitting on top of the fridge from last year (I don't have much of a sweet tooth).

Still bought two more boxes this year from St. Louis Girl Scouts because they're a badass organization. This news makes me regret I didn't buy more.
posted by Ufez Jones at 6:05 PM on February 23, 2016

I ate an entire box of samoas the other day and still keep calling them samosas, because I am an idiot when it comes to gorging. I also ate lemonades, half a box of thin mints, but decided to forgo shortbreads in favor of thanks-a-lots.

What I am basically saying is that having my kids in Girl Scouts is going to result in my early demise.
posted by mittens at 6:08 PM on February 23, 2016 [9 favorites]

welp they just got $100 from me despite the fact that there was no place on the donation form where i could say DOWN WITH THE RCC AND UP WITH COOKY
posted by poffin boffin at 6:11 PM on February 23, 2016 [33 favorites]

I wonder what the encouraging-contraception badge looks like?
posted by mittens at 6:13 PM on February 23, 2016 [31 favorites]

Well, guess my fat ass is going to have to buy thin mints from STL Girl Scouts, because that's some fucked up repugnant shit.
posted by eriko at 6:13 PM on February 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

I wonder what the encouraging-contraception badge looks like?

It's made of rubber.
posted by eriko at 6:14 PM on February 23, 2016 [35 favorites]

I am so entirely grateful to the Archbishop and various other conservative people for allowing me to think of eating delicious cookies as a subversive feminist act.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:15 PM on February 23, 2016 [130 favorites]

As a lapsed Catholic who grew up on the other side of the state: The StL archdiocese has been run by assholes as long as I remember. ex-Bishop Finn of the Kansas City Diocese (the only US bishop to be convicted of failing to report abuse of a minor by a priest) worked his way up through their system before being sent to take over in KC. It's a conservative, conservative archdiocese whose leadership appears to think the problems that face the church are insufficient adherence to a particularly conservative, dogmatic reading of Catholic doctrine.
posted by dismas at 6:17 PM on February 23, 2016 [5 favorites]

Does he want to have countless empty girl scout cookie boxes shipped directly to his office? Because that's how it happens.
posted by ghost phoneme at 6:18 PM on February 23, 2016 [32 favorites]

I should think Trefoils would make a more appropriate communion wafer substitute.

Oh, and, the Archdiocese of St.Louis can collectively go fuck itself (said as I cross myself.)
posted by Thorzdad at 6:19 PM on February 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Let he who is without cookies throw the first stone.

(FLING!)
posted by eriko at 6:25 PM on February 23, 2016

I'm waiting for the Pope to chime in on this. *gets popcorn*

BTW, I want to get the cookies from both the L.A. bakers and the Central California bakers. Can any L.A.-based MeFites arrange for an exchange?
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:26 PM on February 23, 2016

Just because the communion cookies suck doesn't mean they get to be mean to the girls scouts!
posted by cjorgensen at 6:26 PM on February 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

If you want to support the GSC but don't want to spike your blood sugar, ask your local troops if they donate cookies to any charitable organizations. I bought some boxes for the Greater Boston Food Bank last year. I supported the GSC and some homeless people got delicious cookies. 👍🏻
posted by pxe2000 at 6:31 PM on February 23, 2016 [17 favorites]

I'm tempted to get a tube of thin mints and sit on the steps of the St Louis Cathedral Basilica and eat them, intoning "the body of christ" before each one. I'm thinking that's at least half as offensive as this.
posted by eriko at 6:35 PM on February 23, 2016 [34 favorites]

Oh please, they're just mad Girl Scout cookies always come out during Lent.
posted by gueneverey at 6:36 PM on February 23, 2016 [18 favorites]

I hear stories from Girl Scout leaders in less urban areas of the country all the time about how people come up to booth sales all the time and yell at the girls for supporting abortion. Strangers. Yelling at young children. About something that has zero basis in fact.

It's disgusting.
posted by phunniemee at 6:37 PM on February 23, 2016 [37 favorites]

Oh please, they're just mad Girl Scout cookies always come out during Lent.

I've heard stories where people come and yell about that, too.
posted by phunniemee at 6:38 PM on February 23, 2016

Honestly, if someone ever comes up to me and my scouts with that type of blatant asshollery they're going to lose a fucking appendage. My girls have their First Aid badges. It'll be ok.
posted by phunniemee at 6:39 PM on February 23, 2016 [63 favorites]

I'm buying extra this year.
posted by freakazoid at 6:41 PM on February 23, 2016

How does a head contain the ideas that "abortion is bad", "sex education is bad" and "contraception is bad" when the latter two are shown to dramatically reduce the need for the first, like by 1.7 jillion percent?

Oh, right, by simply not considering that women are humans, rather than sex toys and baby machines.

I have $40 in my wallet right now for the girl scouts, just want a couple of boxes of mints, they can keep the change.
posted by maxwelton at 6:42 PM on February 23, 2016 [17 favorites]

actual jesus christ: so i was thinking, maybe my central message should be something simple

actual jesus christ: how about "let's try to be kind to one another because that's the right thing to do"?

actual jesus christ: that should be pretty easy for everyone to understand, right?

modern day christians: YOU LITTLE COOKIE GIRLS ARE WHORES AND GOD HATES YOU

actual jesus christ: *facepalm*
posted by poffin boffin at 6:43 PM on February 23, 2016 [120 favorites]

Does he want to have countless empty girl scout cookie boxes shipped directly to his office? Because that's how it happens.

That. Is. Brilliant.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:44 PM on February 23, 2016 [12 favorites]

Concerns are also continuing to surface with Boy Scouts of America (BSA). While the new BSA
leadership policy currently offers some protections to religious organizations, I continue to wonder in
which direction this once trusted organization is now headed.

This is code for the gays THE HORROR, right? It's the only progressive thing BSA has ever done.
posted by phunniemee at 6:44 PM on February 23, 2016 [6 favorites]

As a child who grew up in the loving arms of the Archdiocese of St Louis, Archbishop Richard J Carlson is welcome to go fuck himself.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:46 PM on February 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

My troop disbanded this year, but after six years in a heavily Catholic town, I never once had an issue. And we have one RC church in town who regularly stands out front of their building with anti-choice picket signs. I am so so so glad I never had to deal with any unpleasantness at our booth sales. I'm staunchly pro-choice, but regardless, if anyone messed with my girls, I'd have been fired for assault.
posted by Ruki at 6:50 PM on February 23, 2016

Makes me feel much better about dropping $25 on Girl Scout cookies over the weekend. Oh, and the Catholic Church can go fuck itself.
posted by photoslob at 6:51 PM on February 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm gonna accord this whole box of Samoas.
posted by Stonestock Relentless at 6:51 PM on February 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

I had already bought 8 boxes this year, and then I read this story and I bought four more.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:53 PM on February 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

Honestly, if someone ever comes up to me and my scouts with that type of blatant asshollery they're going to lose a fucking appendage. My girls have their First Aid badges. It'll be ok.

Well, good! I'd hate to lose you because you got hurt giving some asshole a deeply deserved beatdown.
posted by eriko at 6:54 PM on February 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

I wonder what the encouraging-contraception badge looks like?

I bet the Radical Monarchs actually have one.

_{And damn well they should.}
posted by wormwood23 at 6:56 PM on February 23, 2016

Girl Scouts is exhibiting a troubling pattern of behavior and it is clear to me that as they move in the ways of the world it is becoming increasingly incompatible with our Catholic values.

Surprisingly, I agree 100% with the archbishop. The world is indeed becoming increasingly incompatible with Catholic values. I am pretty sure the world will win.
posted by miyabo at 7:00 PM on February 23, 2016 [21 favorites]

Nope can't have a organization devoted to providing mentoring and role models for girls actually prepare themselves for having control over their own bodies because then they might start having all sorts of other dangerous ideas.

I like some of the work the Catholic Church is doing especially the new Pope but then along come some conservative as fuck members of the hierarchy (most parish priests seem to be fairly chill) and they get all up into moralizing about all sorts of stupid shit when there is like a zillion items higher up on the list of social issues they could be addressing.
posted by vuron at 7:01 PM on February 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

I wonder what the encouraging-contraception badge looks like?

Actually, we start em real young. The Daisies earn a petal badge for each line of the GS Law. I think "respect myself and others" and "responsible for what I say and do" both instill the kind of personal values that might lead a kid to choose to use contraception when they're ready to have sex. SUBVERSIVE, I know.

You asked what they look like; those petals are purple and orange, respectively.
posted by phunniemee at 7:02 PM on February 23, 2016 [39 favorites]

When I read this article earlier this morning I was so outraged that I immediately fired off an angry email to whatever poor schmucks were listed on the STL Archdiocese webpage. I have not gotten a response. My only regret, I failed to mention in my letter that I planned to buy lots of cookies this year. Maybe I forgot because, I buy lots of cookies every year. I loved being a girl scout when I was a kid. It's a great organization. And the Bishop can take his pointy hat and shove it up his arse.
posted by pjsky at 7:14 PM on February 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

I have the Gold star award. (Like Eagle scout, but different) I make good sized donations to our little local troop, so they can keep going, but speaking of local, these lunatics are the ones pouring money into defeating the scourge that is olive green sashed cookie pushers.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:16 PM on February 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

Thorzdad: "Does he want to have countless empty girl scout cookie boxes shipped directly to his office? Because that's how it happens.

That. Is. Brilliant."

I live in St. Louis. How can I help with this?
posted by notsnot at 7:16 PM on February 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

Fuck, I'm vegan. GIVE ME SOME GOTDAMN COOKIES SO THESE ASSHOLES ARE LEFT IN THE DUSTBIN OF FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF
posted by Kitteh at 7:18 PM on February 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

I buy two boxes then hand them back. I'm a supporter, not a consumer.
posted by SPrintF at 7:22 PM on February 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

Now I have another excuse to buy Girl Scout cookies! And this reminds me that I need to make a short trip to do the ABC vs. Little Brownie comparison last years thread inspired.
posted by TedW at 7:23 PM on February 23, 2016

>how about "let's try to be kind to one another because that's the right thing to do"?

I liked Douglas Adams' phrasing:

And then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change...

Presumably this simplistic reductionist thinking doesn't get you too far in the established church.
posted by pompomtom at 7:32 PM on February 23, 2016 [7 favorites]

Remember that most Girl Scout troops are happy to let you purchase cookies to send to Armed Forces personnel overseas, if you feel you've hit your own annual limit but would still like to stick it to the man!
posted by padraigin at 7:33 PM on February 23, 2016 [6 favorites]

I just want to say, again, phunniemee, I love that you're a Scout leader.
posted by crush-onastick at 7:36 PM on February 23, 2016 [9 favorites]

The Girl Scouts will also allow you to overpay or just make a straight-up donation, which I recommend as IIRC only about $0.50 from each box actually goes to the girls.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:43 PM on February 23, 2016 [10 favorites]

I'm buying extra this year.

Can one really have extra Girl Scout cookies?
posted by cjorgensen at 7:44 PM on February 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

Somebody should ask the Pope about this. I love when some authoritarian andediluvian jackass who claims to speak for The Church says something hateful and asinine, then a reporter asks the Pope what he thinks, and he's all like, "Of course not, that wouldn't be very Christian." And then the Opus Dei types publicly scramble like rats to sort out their cognitive dissonance.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:45 PM on February 23, 2016 [11 favorites]

i will nail these 96 samoas to the door of the archdiocese
posted by poffin boffin at 7:59 PM on February 23, 2016 [50 favorites]

"Each person must act in accord with their conscience."

Duly noted.

As a Roman Catholic, I need to buy as many Thin Mints as I can, and stuff them into my mouf.
posted by spinifex23 at 8:05 PM on February 23, 2016 [11 favorites]

That FAQ about scouting from the StL archdiocese poses the question:

Can I still do Girl Scouts in my parish?

which is either a painfully clueless turn of phrase or a brilliant act of satirical sabotage.
posted by Westringia F. at 8:05 PM on February 23, 2016 [21 favorites]

When I read stuff like this I go out and but extra cookies.
Seriously, I had a storage proglem a couple of years back when GSA allowed transgender girls in.
posted by SLC Mom at 8:34 PM on February 23, 2016 [8 favorites]

Buying Girl Scout Cookies is sinful? The Devil drives a hard bargain, indeed.

"WOULDST THOU LIKE TO LIVE . . . DELICIOUSLY?"
posted by KingEdRa at 8:39 PM on February 23, 2016 [8 favorites]

So let me see if I've got this straight: the unborn babies must be saved at all costs because they're totally innocent, but the half-grown babies must be kicked out of church because they might be not so innocent in the future.
posted by Soliloquy at 8:49 PM on February 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Well, I was just at a Catholic school today with my Girl Scout. She sold lots of cookies -- almost every woman who bought cookies from her fondly remembered being a scout themselves. This school also had several teachers and middle school students excused from school to go to a march protesting abortion. These things really don't conflict.
posted by Margalo Epps at 9:03 PM on February 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh, and Kitteh, you know the Thin Mints are vegan, right? They're practically guilt-free.
posted by Margalo Epps at 9:06 PM on February 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

We may be going to 4H, as you have to send an email to someone to have your kid join the Girl Scouts, and they need to send an email back, and they haven't. You are STRONGLY discouraged from just showing up at the local meeting, dues check in hand...

Well, great. I get my cookies from my niece anyhow. The 4H kids seem far less desperate to sell stuff to raise money, and they get their own agricultural fair every summer, with horse jumping shows and tractor pulls and everything, and the meetings are open.

Or maybe I'll see if the local Cub Scout Troop is looking for a top-notch kid with volunteer-oriented parents for their top-notch pack. (The very one I was a member of as a Cub).

Not entirely thrilled with the GSA now that we are trying to join.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:08 PM on February 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

(Can I just say how thrilled I would be if she eventually attained Eagle Scout through my old Boy Scout Troop?)
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:13 PM on February 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

"BTW, I want to get the cookies from both the L.A. bakers and the Central California bakers. Can any L.A.-based MeFites arrange for an exchange?"

I've never had the NorCal ones — Michigan and LA use the same bakers. So hit me up.
posted by klangklangston at 9:44 PM on February 23, 2016

Oh, and Kitteh, you know the Thin Mints are vegan, right?

there are 2 different GSC bakeries, and only one of them makes vegan thin mints. idk which is which though.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:46 PM on February 23, 2016

Nothing the STL Archdiocese does can shock me after Raymond fuckin' "who cares about sex abuse when you can be hating on Polish community churches and women priests" Burke.
posted by thetortoise at 10:09 PM on February 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Girl Scouts will also allow you to overpay or just make a straight-up donation, which I recommend as IIRC only about $0.50 from each box actually goes to the girls.

...but the rest of the money goes to cookies. In your tum-tum.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:27 PM on February 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm inventing time travel just to allow me to embed the encoded message "DOWN WITH THE RCC AND UP WITH COOKY" irrevocably into the human genome at the point of its genesis in Human-Zero.

Thank you for my new life's mission, poffin boffin.
posted by nfalkner at 10:28 PM on February 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

Concerns are also continuing to surface with Boy Scouts of America (BSA). While the new BSA leadership policy currently offers some protections to religious organizations, I continue to wonder in which direction this once trusted organization is now headed.

backstory: gay adult leaders aren't autopurged anymore

Now back to cookies and empowered girls and young women.
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:05 PM on February 23, 2016

In response, to the St. Louis Archdiocese of the Roman Catholic Church, I'd like to say just two things:

1. Are you aware that Spotlight is still showing in cinemas? Also, ...
2. Fuck off.
posted by joz at 11:58 PM on February 23, 2016 [6 favorites]

I'm kind of surprised that it wasn't decades of sexual abuse of children that got people to actually say "the Catholic church can go fuck itself." No, it was messing with Girl Scout cookies.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:27 AM on February 24, 2016 [1 favorite]

If the Catholic Church is going to make me choose between them and Girl Scout cookies, well... I think we all know how that is going to go.
posted by A Bad Catholic at 4:43 AM on February 24, 2016 [7 favorites]

I wonder what the encouraging-contraception badge looks like?
posted by mittens

The Women's Health badge for Senior Girl Scouts probably fits, if a scout chose sexual health as a topic to investigate. Also scouts at brownies and up can actually design and earn their own badge once per year; essentially it's like an independent study.

Like Boy Scouts, in my experience, what you get out of scouting depends hugely on how well run your local troop is, but if you have a good crew Girl Scouts do some great stuff (though there are some issues about where the money from the cookie sales goes but I won't be a party pooper about that here). The longer the Catholic hierarchy holds out on homosexuality (and frankly the evolution of sexual mores more generally) the more embarrassing it will look when they are eventually forced to accept social reality or face schism.
posted by Wretch729 at 5:00 AM on February 24, 2016 [1 favorite]

I consider getting Girl Scout cookies to be "buying groceries," but I am starting to question the decisions I made in life. I mean, what if Archbishop Robert J. Carlson is playing the long con? What if he's worked his way up the church hierarchy just so he can protest Girl Scout cookies? What if this is his sole mission—knowing that people like me, our first inclination is to send him a box in protest?—is to get free cookies? I mean, not to dox the guy or anything, but his address is on the press release he sent out! How can you not want to send him a letter and a box of cookies in protest?
posted by cjorgensen at 6:39 AM on February 24, 2016 [4 favorites]

Monseigneur had a new rule this year that he will only buy one box of cookies from your kid so that he can buy cookies from everyone.
posted by charred husk at 6:42 AM on February 24, 2016 [1 favorite]

> The Girl Scouts will also allow you to overpay or just make a straight-up donation, which I recommend as IIRC only about $0.50 from each box actually goes to the girls

In my council, if you make a donation during cookie season, the troop has to use it to buy cookies to donate (to the USO, or an organization the troop has selected), by the way. It might be different where you live, or the troop leaders might not be honest and fair, but that's what's supposed to happen. So a $4 donation or a $4 box of cookies -- either way my troop gets $0.75.

Outside of the cookie season, though, we can use 100% of donations, up to some huge amount I can't remember, for owl pellets and to go camping and to pay for photocopies and to buy origami paper (all things I have listed on my reimbursement form).
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:55 AM on February 24, 2016 [4 favorites]

In short: just buy yourself those Thin Mints.
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:03 AM on February 24, 2016

owl pellets

Or as we call them, Nature's Swaps.
posted by mittens at 7:03 AM on February 24, 2016 [3 favorites]

Ufez Jones: I still have a frozen sleeve of Thin Mints in the freezer and an unopened box sitting on top of the fridge from last year (I don't have much of a sweet tooth).

Like the Catholic Church, I, too, accept charitable donations.
posted by chonus at 7:29 AM on February 24, 2016 [1 favorite]

The 4H kids seem far less desperate to sell stuff to raise money

What does 4-H do to raise money? BSA does popcorn, Campfire does nuts and candy... Everyone has to get money somehow, unless you only let in kids whose families can pay 100% of the expenses.
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:36 AM on February 24, 2016

I'm kind of surprised that it wasn't decades of sexual abuse of children that got people to actually say "the Catholic church can go fuck itself."

yes, that's definitely what is going on in this thread
posted by poffin boffin at 7:43 AM on February 24, 2016 [2 favorites]

We may be going to 4H, as you have to send an email to someone to have your kid join the Girl Scouts, and they need to send an email back, and they haven't. You are STRONGLY discouraged from just showing up at the local meeting, dues check in hand...

Wow...things really are different troop to troop. When I dropped my girls off at the last meeting, there was a new family there, ready to sign up on the spot, and they were welcomed in. We cover quite a bit of low-income territory, though, so maybe that makes a difference?

Our troop has been pleasingly quiet about fundraising. Outside of the cookies, there is a nut sale, and some t-shirt buying and things like that, but I've been amazed by how cheap it all has been. Certainly nothing like the high-pressure stuff going on at school fundraisers.
posted by mittens at 7:49 AM on February 24, 2016 [1 favorite]

mittens: "I wonder what the encouraging-contraception badge looks like?"

Kinda like the last panel of this probably

Can't do much about the Girl Scouts (aside from buy the cookies) as I ended up with a son. On the other hand, it's been fun subverting the BSA. (Our local Council flatly stated they supported gay scouts, end of story, LONG before the national level changes came through. Multiple local leaders have affirmed that they have no issues with a non-religious Scout. It's that kind of stance & message that made me comfortable getting my kid involved.)
posted by caution live frogs at 7:50 AM on February 24, 2016 [3 favorites]

The 4H kids seem far less desperate to sell stuff to raise money
>What does 4-H do to raise money?

GSUSA is primarily self-funded through membership dues and the cookie program.

4-H receives federal funding from the Department of Agriculture, state funding, and individual chapters can apply for a large number of grants from various agricultural interest groups.


I'd be less desperate, too, if "can my girls have crayons" weren't dependent on selling cookies.
posted by phunniemee at 7:50 AM on February 24, 2016 [6 favorites]

Thin Mints for communion? Pshaw.

I always thought the proper substitute was Necco Wafers. Line up all the other kids on their knees with hands extended and pass out the Neccos until Sister Mary Elephant comes around the corner carrying that long wooden pointer/switch with which to swat you your heretical hiney.
posted by caddis at 7:51 AM on February 24, 2016

Nothing the STL Archdiocese does can shock me after Raymond fuckin' "who cares about sex abuse when you can be hating on Polish community churches and women priests" Burke.

Yup. My husband and I were married at St Stanislaus by Fr Bozek, members of the parish, and the whole thing.

It genuinely shocked me that the church excommunicated him. He is one of those priests who when you meet him it is immediately clear that he has a true vocation to the priesthood in general and being a parish priest in particular. He genuinely loves and roots for every member of his congregation. I've met plenty of priests who seem to have burned out or treat it as punching a clock. So of course the church excommunicates the really good one? Way to be shortsighted, Burke the Jerk.
posted by antimony at 7:59 AM on February 24, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh, fuck these guys.
posted by Automocar at 8:58 AM on February 24, 2016

The 4H kids seem far less desperate to sell stuff to raise money
>What does 4-H do to raise money?

In our area, they run the "Cloverleaf Cafe" at the County Fair. And they sell a lot of the animals they raise once the fair is over; usually 4H gets a fee for running the auction & then the kids keep the rest of the money.
posted by belladonna at 9:18 AM on February 24, 2016

Just a few minutes ago our Council rep started circulating this around to our SUs (which happen to be located in heavily Catholic neighborhoods). I wonder what possibly could have prompted this, hmm.

Questions always come up during cookie season,
when we are most visible in communities.
I'm very proud of our statements,
These are always posted on our webpage.
Feel free to share or direct them to the webpage if questions arise.

GIRL SCOUT STATEMENTS

INCLUSION AND ACCOMMODATION
Girl Scouts of Greater Chicago and Northwest Indiana has been, and always will be, committed to serving a diverse membership of girls and adults. It is our policy not to discriminate on the basis of race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation, age, disability unrelated to the individual's ability to perform designated volunteer duties, national origin, citizenship, marital status, or economic status.

FAITH-BASED, SOCIAL AND POLITICAL ISSUES
The Girl Scout Movement is a secular, values-based organization founded on democratic principles, including freedom of religion. We believe faith is a private matter for girls and their families to address. The Girl Scout organization does not endorse or promote any particular philosophy or religious belief and allows flexibility when girls say the Girl Scout Promise. We celebrate each girl's commitment to her own religion. The "My Promise, My Faith" religious award encourages girls to keep their connections between their faith community and the important values outlined in the lines of the Girl Scout Law. The Girl Scout organization, including local councils, does NOT take a position on abortion or birth control and does NOT have any national collaboration or relationship with Planned Parenthood, nor do we provide any financial support to this organization.

posted by phunniemee at 9:22 AM on February 24, 2016 [3 favorites]

> Questions always come up during cookie season, when we are most visible in communities. I'm very proud of our statements, These are always posted on our webpage.

That doesn't match the scansion of "Yellow Rose of Texas" at all.
posted by The corpse in the library at 9:25 AM on February 24, 2016 [1 favorite]

I grew up in the Diocese of Arlington (VA)... so conservative that it and Lincoln, NE were the very last holdouts against girl altar servers.

In addition to the Planned Parenthood/contraception thing, there was a lot of Catholic side-eye toward the Girl Scouts in the mid-90s when girls were allowed to start replacing the word "God" in the pledge with something else or to leave it out entirely. Cue harrumphing about "making God optional."

A few years ago, at least one church in the diocese kicked out the Girl Scouts completely, prohibiting them from using the parish facilities. The diocese itself still has a Scouting council that works with Scouts on the faith-related activities, so I guess the outright animosity doesn't go all the way up.

Several of the more conservative parishes have started American Heritage Girl troops instead of or in addition to Girl Scout troops. Oh look, the Archdiocese of St. Louis endorses the American Heritage Girls! No surprise there.
posted by scarnato at 9:28 AM on February 24, 2016

I mean...honestly like someone said above, it IS increasingly hard to live in the world and also raise children with traditional Catholic values. It's just that's seen as a feature, not a bug.

For a while, the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts both were pretty behind the times - no LGBT, Girl Scouts spent more time singing songs and being charitable angels than outdoorsy stuff, Boy Scouts swearing to God and Country. So for a while, these organizations acted almost like another arm of the church - a social setting you could send your kids to where they would be wrapped in wool and protected from the big bad world.

Sometime in the last dozen years that changed, as they decided to enter this century. But the Archbishop ain't wrong - it's no free semi-cloister anymore, either.
posted by corb at 9:30 AM on February 24, 2016

For a while, the Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts both were pretty behind the times - no LGBT, Girl Scouts spent more time singing songs and being charitable angels than outdoorsy stuff, Boy Scouts swearing to God and Country.

Has that ever been true of the Girl Scouts? I have a friend from grad school who did some research on how the Girl Scouts responded to feminism in the '70s and '80s, and she was surprised to find that the answer at the national level was "wholesale embrace." There was some push-back at the local level, but the national Girl Scout leaders saw feminism as giving them a mission at a time when they were worried about becoming less relevant to girls' lives. My mom was the troop leader for my Girl Scout troop at around that time, and she said that was her sense as well. I am not convinced it's true that the Girl Scouts were behind the times, although obviously things would look different if you looked at the '50s or before.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:41 AM on February 24, 2016 [3 favorites]

I had multiple lesbian Girl Scout camp counselors in the 1980s. One thing I loved about our camp was there was not a man in sight--all the jobs, from the camp manager to the camp maintenance people, were done by women. Feminism has been a Girl Scout thing all my life.
posted by hydropsyche at 10:05 AM on February 24, 2016 [2 favorites]

Some GS troops are super-duper Catholic and some are irreligious, etc. There's a lot of freedom for troops to be organized as best suits the families involved.
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:09 AM on February 24, 2016

this was a great reminder to
1. buy girl scout cookies (do-si-dos and tagalongs foreverrrr)
2. donate to GSA
3. be glad that my catholic mom put me in girl scouts as a kid and that she would also tell this archbishop to go fuck himself
posted by burgerrr at 10:32 AM on February 24, 2016 [1 favorite]

there are 2 different GSC bakeries, and only one of them makes vegan thin mints. idk which is which though.
I know Little Brownie Bakers started leaving out it's itty bit of dairy in the last decade or so. I just took a quick glance at the ABC Bakers and didn't see any animal products in their list either. Oh, and on closer look, both cookie detail pages actually say "vegan" on them.

The Girl Scouts will also allow you to overpay or just make a straight-up donation, which I recommend as IIRC only about $0.50 from each box actually goes to the girls.
For new troops it is 55 cents, established 70 cents, and presumably this varies somewhat by council. About a dollar pays for the actual cookie and packaging. The rest goes to actually running girl scouts, having scholarships at camp, keeping scouts who are foster kids in their troop even as they move around, and other programs in each council. I'm okay with our troop only keeping some of the money when the rest of it goes to programs we want to support. Last year I was the cookie manager for a new troop of 2nd and 3rd graders. We decided to ask all the girls to try getting orders and try being at a sale outside a store -- however much each girl wanted to do either of these things. One girl did one sale and decided she was done. Most girls decided to stick with the two more sales they originally guessed they'd want. Two girls asked to be put on extra sales. One scout got orders for 22 boxes, another for 130. Out of all this "let's try it and you can do as much or as little as you want" we made $836 last year. This year most girls know what they like and are more excited, and will also be making more per box. I think this works pretty well as a fundraiser.

While overpaying or making donations is nice, during cookie sales all money goes towards boxes of cookies, of which we get the same amount per box. My troop takes our donated boxes to our local food bank (108 boxes last year).
posted by Margalo Epps at 10:35 AM on February 24, 2016 [2 favorites]

> Girl Scouts spent more time singing songs and being charitable angels than outdoorsy stuff

Camping has always been part of the Girl Scout agenda. Here they are in 1918. Here are some leaders sucking it up and going camping because their troop chose to and they couldn't find a way out of it, in 1951.

I could go on about the current badge curriculum and the need for an Outdoor Journey, and people in other councils can tell you sad stories about the condition of their camps (mine are great), but outdoorsy stuff always has been important to Girl Scouting.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:19 AM on February 24, 2016 [2 favorites]

"Each person must act in accord with their conscience."

He may say that, but I don't think that typically ends the way he wants it to.
posted by dances with hamsters at 11:29 AM on February 24, 2016 [1 favorite]

You shouldn't buy Girl Scout cookies because it's a straight-up exploitation of child labor.

Can't help you with the contraception part because it hasn't come up while my daughter is earning her Journey petals.
posted by madajb at 11:43 AM on February 24, 2016

Oh huh! The Girl Scout troop I got put in at a young age I remember as ridiculously sexist, so much so that I refused to ever go back. I'm pleased to know it wasn't everywhere!
posted by corb at 12:44 PM on February 24, 2016

> it's a straight-up exploitation of child labor

My daughter volunteers her time to sell cookies to support her troop and council. It's no more child labor than is her time helping at the food bank, shelving books in her school library, or doing park clean-up.
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:54 PM on February 24, 2016 [6 favorites]

My daughter volunteers her time to sell cookies to support her troop and council. It's no more child labor than is her time helping at the food bank, shelving books in her school library, or doing park clean-up.

omg THIS. And.
My childhood troop sent ourselves on a fully funded three week trip to Switzerland on the spoils of child labor.
posted by phunniemee at 12:59 PM on February 24, 2016 [3 favorites]

When I was a child, in the 1980s, I was a Girl Scout. Somewhere I have a list of all the badges I earned, and most of them were for actual skills. Which means it must be time for my favorite Ex Scout story!

About sixteen years ago, I was renting a hydraulic tiller, which turned out to be a very large machine, so large that it didn't fit in the back of my compact pickup with enough room to spare to actually close the tailgate. So we had to tie it in. The rental company employee was tying the rope across the back of the bed of the truck with the WORST, LEAST USEFUL series of knots ever -- basically just a series of half-hitches -- that were about guaranteed to come untied about a half mile after I drove away. After biting my tongue for a little while, I said "Oh, give me that," took the rope, and retied it with a bowline on one end and a self-tightening hitch on the other, so I could snug the rope up and it would stay snug. The employee was a little affronted to have been shown up so badly and said, snarkily, "Well, SORRY, I was never in the Boy Scouts when I was a kid."

"Yeah," I said, "neither was I."
posted by KathrynT at 1:16 PM on February 24, 2016 [27 favorites]

> Wow...things really are different troop to troop. When I dropped my girls off at the last meeting, there was a new family there, ready to sign up on the spot, and they were welcomed in. We cover quite a bit of low-income territory, though, so maybe that makes a difference?

I don't see how income comes into it. My troop meets at a school in a low-income area, but we're not open to everyone -- I'd love to be able to take ALL THE GIRLS but some of my Scouts have special needs and we work best with a low adult to girl ratio.

This comes up a lot in Girl Scout leader chats. There's a new thing called the "opportunity catalogue," which is supposed to be where a girl who's looking for a troop can find one that meets when and where she wants. The debate is if all troops need to be in there, ready to take on all girls (as encouraged by administration in many areas) or if the leaders should be able to set limits on the size of their troop and what age the girls are (this is the way many leaders prefer to operate).
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:42 AM on February 27, 2016

I thought about this thread while watching the Oscars last night. Go Chris Rock! Go Girl Scouts!

...An hour and a half into the ceremony, Rock explained that because of his Oscar hosting duties, "I've been away from my two daughters at a very important time in their life. I have missed most of Girl Scout cookie season." After explaining that his younger daughter, Zahra, lamented coming in second during her troop's cookie sales, he told the audience, "I want you to reach into your millionaire pockets, and I want you to buy some of my daughter's Girl Scout cookies."

A local Girl Scout troop then flooded the Dolby Theatre, selling boxes of cookies to willing celebrities. Kate Winslet, John Legend, Matt Damon, Steve Carell, Julianne Moore and Christian Bale were among those eating.

Then, 45 minutes later, Rock assembled the troop on the stage for what he called "the big moment of the night": the revelation that $65,243 had been spent on cookies...

The cookies made one final appearance during the closing moments of the ceremony: Rock mentioned the Girl Scouts one more time while Morgan Freeman (who had just presented best picture to Spotlight) and Michael Keaton (who starred in it) sampled the box of Thin Mints he had onstage.

The Girl Scouts were first approached two weeks ago about appearing on the Academy Awards, and the details were locked in last week. The request came from Rock himself, said Stewart Goodbody, director of communications for Girl Scouts of the USA. "He has personal ties to Girl Scouts, and he speaks really highly of the organization. And he felt it would be a great idea to do something fun and light-hearted and shine the light on something positive in this year's Oscars telecast. And we think he knocked it out of the park."

posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 3:50 PM on February 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

Girl Scouts annual fundraiser nets record cash despite criticism from archdiocese.
posted by jedicus at 7:24 PM on February 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

It's lame that this article didn't question this:

The letter took to task the national organization’s support of Planned Parenthood and other organizations advocating access to birth control and abortion, and its alliance with feminists such as Gloria Steinem and Betty Friedan.

It's pretty easy to find out that while Girls Scouts and Planned Parenthood both come under criticism for being good for girls and women, they aren't actually connected in any way. It's more of a "grr, females" kinda thing. Nancy Cambria could have mentioned that the letter takes something to task and also point out that it's nonsense.
posted by Margalo Epps at 3:50 PM on March 1, 2016