At this point we had no idea what that meant exactly.
March 18, 2016 12:10 AM Subscribe
January 2012 I received a call from Disney: The director Byron Howard, writer Jared Bush and production designer Dave Goetz pitched the premise for a movie called "Savage" (which should become "Zootopia" later) to me and I thought it was a genius idea: An animal movie with a twist: Humans have never existed and instead animals have evolved to human capacity and they had created a city built by animals for animals. Matthias Lechner, Art Director Of Environments for Zootopia, shares an extensive collection of concept art for ideas developed and discarded. A fascinating look at the creative process, showing the evolution of surviving concepts and glimpses at worlds that might have been.
The World's Fair looks like it would have been amazing!
The World's Fair looks like it would have been amazing!
posted by hippybear
Eponysterical.
Sorry.
posted by dazed_one at 12:24 AM on March 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
Eponysterical.
Sorry.
posted by dazed_one at 12:24 AM on March 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
Singing and dancing animals? Bwahahahaha!
It'll never work.
posted by Wretch729 at 12:43 AM on March 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
It'll never work.
posted by Wretch729 at 12:43 AM on March 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
I wonder how much of this unused world-building will make its way into the inevitable TV series.
posted by darksasami at 12:47 AM on March 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by darksasami at 12:47 AM on March 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'd still like to know what was behind the Mammals Only policy. Predator/prey, presumably.
posted by solarion at 12:49 AM on March 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by solarion at 12:49 AM on March 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wonder how much of this unused world-building will make its way into the inevitable TV series.
I can already see the fights breaking out between the TV show people and the Imagineers in Orlando, with the latter category snapping up whatever they can for a redress/refresh of the Animal Kingdom park.
posted by radwolf76 at 12:57 AM on March 18, 2016
I can already see the fights breaking out between the TV show people and the Imagineers in Orlando, with the latter category snapping up whatever they can for a redress/refresh of the Animal Kingdom park.
posted by radwolf76 at 12:57 AM on March 18, 2016
Solarion, according to the official "Art of Zootopia" book, there are other species living on different continents of the Zootopian world. Limiting the population to mammals only gave the film the focus it needed to move forward from its initial production stages.
posted by Hermione Granger at 1:15 AM on March 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Hermione Granger at 1:15 AM on March 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
a genius idea: An animal movie with a twist: Humans have never existed and instead animals have evolved to human capacity
Wasn't this exactly the basis for a zillion excellent Disney movies already? I don't get why they're acting like it's such a novel idea.
But, beautiful art!! I'm excited to see the movie. I hope Disney will continue to revisit anthropomorphised animals, I really feel like those movies were its most charming - Robin Hood, Basil the Great Mouse Detective, etc.
posted by Ziggy500 at 1:31 AM on March 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Solarion, according to the official "Art of Zootopia" book, there are other species living on different continents of the Zootopian world.
Hurray. I anticipate the TV spinoff.
posted by solarion at 1:43 AM on March 18, 2016
Hurray. I anticipate the TV spinoff.
posted by solarion at 1:43 AM on March 18, 2016
I haven't seen the movie - is it similar to the Kevin and Kell webcomic? I keep flashing to that when I see the ads.
posted by cadge at 1:44 AM on March 18, 2016
posted by cadge at 1:44 AM on March 18, 2016
I doubt they'll redress any part of Animal Kingdom since they have committed to relative realism in Asia and Africa, The Dinosaur ride is really popular so I don't think they'd change Dino-Rama, and they are in the process of building the Avatar expansion right now. I could see them replacing the A Bug's Life movie in the Tree of Life, though.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 1:45 AM on March 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Elementary Penguin at 1:45 AM on March 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
Normally I'd be all for this idea, but the irony of millions of middle-class people going to see a film about humanoid animals while real wild animal populations are being devastated by human activities weighs heavily on me.
posted by sneebler at 3:09 AM on March 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by sneebler at 3:09 AM on March 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wasn't this exactly the basis for a zillion excellent Disney movies already? I don't get why they're acting like it's such a novel idea.
I haven't seen Zootopia, but if this concept is actually in the movie, it would be kind of unique. Sure there's a million talking animal Disney movies, but there's no backstory explanation; the talking animals just are. The only movie I can recall that actually explains how and why the animals can talk is The Secret of N.I.M.H.
posted by zardoz at 3:43 AM on March 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
I haven't seen Zootopia, but if this concept is actually in the movie, it would be kind of unique. Sure there's a million talking animal Disney movies, but there's no backstory explanation; the talking animals just are. The only movie I can recall that actually explains how and why the animals can talk is The Secret of N.I.M.H.
posted by zardoz at 3:43 AM on March 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ah yes, this was the question that ruined my enjoyment of Duck Tales, how did these animals start talking? And why don't the beagle boys just EAT the ducks?
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 4:07 AM on March 18, 2016
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 4:07 AM on March 18, 2016
More on Zootopia's evolution: http://www.themarysue.com/zootopia-story-darker-less-awesome/
posted by arabelladragon at 4:42 AM on March 18, 2016
posted by arabelladragon at 4:42 AM on March 18, 2016
And why don't the beagle boys just EAT the ducks?
Ducks can be very aggressive. Those beagle boys wouldn't have gotten away without being pretty bloodied.
posted by solarion at 5:28 AM on March 18, 2016
Ducks can be very aggressive. Those beagle boys wouldn't have gotten away without being pretty bloodied.
posted by solarion at 5:28 AM on March 18, 2016
I **love** concept art and 'exploring' work. Half of my Newsblur shares are probably related to these topics. (The other half are Hamilton, and the other half are goofy youtubes)
Zootopia and Big Hero 6 have been much better about showing how the sausage is made than any of the recent PIxar flicks (Art Of Inside Out wasn't bad, but I think most animation things these days don't get to spend as much time in random "What If We..." land)
posted by DigDoug at 5:36 AM on March 18, 2016
Zootopia and Big Hero 6 have been much better about showing how the sausage is made than any of the recent PIxar flicks (Art Of Inside Out wasn't bad, but I think most animation things these days don't get to spend as much time in random "What If We..." land)
posted by DigDoug at 5:36 AM on March 18, 2016
So I just tried to look up showtimes here in England and got a bit confused because it's actually called "Zootropolis" here. Anyone venture a guess as to why? I find that really weird.
posted by like_neon at 5:43 AM on March 18, 2016
posted by like_neon at 5:43 AM on March 18, 2016
There shoulda been a 20 hour "short subject" Mr Sloth visits Snail Island.
posted by sammyo at 5:46 AM on March 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 5:46 AM on March 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
Saw and loved the movie. I don't usually swear in here, but holy fuck Lechner can draw.
posted by signal at 6:27 AM on March 18, 2016
posted by signal at 6:27 AM on March 18, 2016
I can't be the only person who wants to pronounce "Zootopia" based on its Greek roots: "zoh-oh-topia." It took way too long for me to realize it was a pun.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:50 AM on March 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:50 AM on March 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
The director, some of the cast, and production staff gave a talk at Google that's pretty interesting. The talk (50 min, minor Google Photos promo) is not about the art but about the story development. It started out as a quite different movie, with the fox as the main character.
Best Disney movie is quite a while.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:53 AM on March 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best Disney movie is quite a while.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:53 AM on March 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
One of the best things about Zootopia is that it embraces the size differences between various mammals, so there's a lot of visually interesting sights and gags.
The racism theme is bit hackneyed, but it mostly works and it appear better to younger minds.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:11 AM on March 18, 2016
The racism theme is bit hackneyed, but it mostly works and it appear better to younger minds.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:11 AM on March 18, 2016
History is littered with the broken bodies and mangled corpses of those who have angered ducks and failed to consider their murderous wrath.
And not just in Disney.
posted by delfin at 7:17 AM on March 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
And not just in Disney.
posted by delfin at 7:17 AM on March 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm afraid to look at the angry duck links.
I am so glad they made that movie Judy's story rather than Nick's. I kinda think "Of COURSE they made it a man's movie," but thank goodness they corrected.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:26 AM on March 18, 2016
I am so glad they made that movie Judy's story rather than Nick's. I kinda think "Of COURSE they made it a man's movie," but thank goodness they corrected.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:26 AM on March 18, 2016
cadge: I haven't seen the movie - is it similar to the Kevin and Kell webcomic? I keep flashing to that when I see the ads.
I thought of Kevin and Kell while watching the movie. There is definitely a shared sensibility here -- both are slyly mature works about anthropomorphic animals that know they're animals, and about predators and prey trying to live together as a society, and the tensions and prejudices that entails. I would not be at all surprised if the writers of Zootopia acknowledged Kevin and Kell as a direct influence.
The big difference is that in Kevin and Kell characters actually eat each other sometimes. It's not really clear to me what the carnivores in Zootopia eat, apart from the occasional donut or popsicle we see on-screen.
posted by baf at 8:39 AM on March 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
I thought of Kevin and Kell while watching the movie. There is definitely a shared sensibility here -- both are slyly mature works about anthropomorphic animals that know they're animals, and about predators and prey trying to live together as a society, and the tensions and prejudices that entails. I would not be at all surprised if the writers of Zootopia acknowledged Kevin and Kell as a direct influence.
The big difference is that in Kevin and Kell characters actually eat each other sometimes. It's not really clear to me what the carnivores in Zootopia eat, apart from the occasional donut or popsicle we see on-screen.
posted by baf at 8:39 AM on March 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
. It's not really clear to me what the carnivores in Zootopia eat, apart from the occasional donut or popsicle we see on-screen.
Lucky Chomps! Blueberries! Other off screen stuff!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:48 AM on March 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Lucky Chomps! Blueberries! Other off screen stuff!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:48 AM on March 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
delfin: And not just in Disney.
I knew one of those links was going to be to Glorantha ducks.
posted by JHarris at 9:14 AM on March 18, 2016
I knew one of those links was going to be to Glorantha ducks.
posted by JHarris at 9:14 AM on March 18, 2016
Fans are starting to create art and fic in the Zootopia-that-wasn't world described in hippybear's OP link; looking in Tumblr under Zoodystopia is starting to turn them up. Here's a one-page fan comic, and possibly the start of another.
Warning: Above links are SFW but furry. Dig too deep into Tumblr, furry, and Zootopia and you will find NSFW/NSFL stuff.
posted by hackwolf at 9:35 AM on March 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
Warning: Above links are SFW but furry. Dig too deep into Tumblr, furry, and Zootopia and you will find NSFW/NSFL stuff.
posted by hackwolf at 9:35 AM on March 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
> ... instead animals have evolved to human capacity.
Isn't that what actually happened?
/Yes, I know what you really meant. I'm just being silly.
posted by benito.strauss at 10:04 AM on March 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
Isn't that what actually happened?
/Yes, I know what you really meant. I'm just being silly.
posted by benito.strauss at 10:04 AM on March 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
I hope Disney will continue to revisit anthropomorphised animals, I really feel like those movies were its most charming - Robin Hood, Basil the Great Mouse Detective, etc.
My guess is that at least part of that appeal is because, given that cartoon-animal faces are already contorted far beyond reality just to anthropomorphize them and give them the ability to speak and show emotion, the animators can then take that idea even further and exaggerate the emotions over the top for humorous and story-telling reasons. Doing that with human faces, even cartoon ones, might be less appealing to us.
That's just my theory. Which is mine, and belongs to me.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:23 AM on March 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
My guess is that at least part of that appeal is because, given that cartoon-animal faces are already contorted far beyond reality just to anthropomorphize them and give them the ability to speak and show emotion, the animators can then take that idea even further and exaggerate the emotions over the top for humorous and story-telling reasons. Doing that with human faces, even cartoon ones, might be less appealing to us.
That's just my theory. Which is mine, and belongs to me.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:23 AM on March 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
As a counter-argument, HBO's new series Animals [done in an entirely "real animal" style], I find nearly unwatchable.
As an actual discussion of the derail -- I find it interesting how really flat human faces are in most "realistic" animations. Going back to the big classic, Disney's Snow White, it's the titular woman's face which is the least interesting thing about that entire movie. Cartoonized human faces are not uncommon in animation -- everything from the Dwarves to Elmer Fudd to Freakazoid. And we don't find them unappealing, I don't think, in general.
If anything, we find realistic animation of human faces to fall into the uncanny valley, not capturing enough of the subtleties of actual human expressiveness to convey actual emotion and instead portraying generally flat affect. The computer-rotoscoped Waking Life is a great example of this. It works to the benefit of that particular movie, but there is no denying that the human faces feel odd as a viewer.
The newer Disney CGI movies have used distorted human faces quite a bit. Look at the Bratz-styled faces for the princesses in Frozen -- gigantic eyes, tiny nose, mouth that is mostly tiny except when it doesn't need to be, regressive chin, sharp jawline... The animators chose to keep to within basically "normal" movements for these features, but they manage to get a giant amount of expressiveness out of those distorted faces, something which is not achieved through realism.
posted by hippybear at 10:41 AM on March 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
As an actual discussion of the derail -- I find it interesting how really flat human faces are in most "realistic" animations. Going back to the big classic, Disney's Snow White, it's the titular woman's face which is the least interesting thing about that entire movie. Cartoonized human faces are not uncommon in animation -- everything from the Dwarves to Elmer Fudd to Freakazoid. And we don't find them unappealing, I don't think, in general.
If anything, we find realistic animation of human faces to fall into the uncanny valley, not capturing enough of the subtleties of actual human expressiveness to convey actual emotion and instead portraying generally flat affect. The computer-rotoscoped Waking Life is a great example of this. It works to the benefit of that particular movie, but there is no denying that the human faces feel odd as a viewer.
The newer Disney CGI movies have used distorted human faces quite a bit. Look at the Bratz-styled faces for the princesses in Frozen -- gigantic eyes, tiny nose, mouth that is mostly tiny except when it doesn't need to be, regressive chin, sharp jawline... The animators chose to keep to within basically "normal" movements for these features, but they manage to get a giant amount of expressiveness out of those distorted faces, something which is not achieved through realism.
posted by hippybear at 10:41 AM on March 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well I did say it was just a theory. Fine, I take it back then!
:)
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:52 AM on March 18, 2016
:)
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:52 AM on March 18, 2016
Speaking of the Zootopia environments-- does anyone know what is meant by the credit: Set Extensions? It has a fairly conventional meaning in live-action films. But what the heck does it mean in an entirely 3D production?
posted by cleroy at 11:11 AM on March 18, 2016
posted by cleroy at 11:11 AM on March 18, 2016
Also, what's a Stereo Artist. Best we could figure out is that it's an artist dealing with converting the film to 3D, but it's still not quite clear.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:19 PM on March 18, 2016
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:19 PM on March 18, 2016
I believe a Stereo Artist is someone who shapes the 3D experience, using the plane of focus to direct attention, deciding on depth of field, what comes out of the screen, etc. But don't quote me on that.
posted by hippybear at 12:44 PM on March 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 12:44 PM on March 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Greg-Ace, IIRC Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics argues that realist drawing styles *reduce* reader identification with a comic character. I hypothesize that exaggerated expressions increase identification because they represent subjectivity -- the giant eyes and sweat-drops aren't what an emotion looks like, they're what it feels like.
posted by clew at 1:42 PM on March 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by clew at 1:42 PM on March 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
(Probably other people have hypothesized it better. IANAC.)
posted by clew at 1:44 PM on March 18, 2016
posted by clew at 1:44 PM on March 18, 2016
Sure there's a million talking animal Disney movies, but there's no backstory explanation; the talking animals just are. The only movie I can recall that actually explains how and why the animals can talk is The Secret of N.I.M.H.
Maybe Disney/Pixar is planning on making "The Secret of C.A.R.S." so we can find out how that all came about.
And, nope, never seen any of these films so if it's in there, color me ignorant.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 4:20 PM on March 18, 2016
Maybe Disney/Pixar is planning on making "The Secret of C.A.R.S." so we can find out how that all came about.
And, nope, never seen any of these films so if it's in there, color me ignorant.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 4:20 PM on March 18, 2016
Ok, I have not seen this movie yet, but based on the concept art, do the animals really drive in animal-themed cars? That's like if humans made a flesh-colored car with fake hair sticking out of the roof and human ear-shaped side mirrors. Freaky.
Then again I'm scared to know what the animals in Zootopia serve in restaurants, knowing the carnivores and herbivores are living together.
posted by picklenickle at 8:51 PM on March 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Then again I'm scared to know what the animals in Zootopia serve in restaurants, knowing the carnivores and herbivores are living together.
posted by picklenickle at 8:51 PM on March 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
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posted by Joe in Australia at 12:21 AM on March 18, 2016 [5 favorites]