When Dungeons & Dragons Set Off a ‘Moral Panic’
April 21, 2016 2:28 PM Subscribe
HG Wells and Jerome K. Jerome invented a tabletop war game. Somebody slap me, I must be dreaming.
Yep. Here's the text.
Anyway, I wonder why this of all things for the retro report. Maybe because it seems so quaint and pointless in retrospect.
posted by GuyZero at 2:32 PM on April 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
Yep. Here's the text.
Anyway, I wonder why this of all things for the retro report. Maybe because it seems so quaint and pointless in retrospect.
posted by GuyZero at 2:32 PM on April 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
Still weirdly relevant in some quarters. I know one person, within the last ten years, whose divorced wife used the fact that he played D&D as part of her argument that he was an unfit father.
posted by skycrashesdown at 2:38 PM on April 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by skycrashesdown at 2:38 PM on April 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
Relatedly, The Guardian has a piece on The Great Crossword Panic: “Crosswords: the meow meow of the 1920s”
posted by Going To Maine at 2:39 PM on April 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 2:39 PM on April 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
My parents fell completely into this hysteria. I remember the first time I casually mentioned to my mom that my friend and I were going to play D&D. She went totally cold and told me that I was never, ever, under any circumstances to play that game.
I of course spent the next five years sneaking around to play D&D. That was a lot of fun, but I blame the D&D hysteria of the late 70s and 80s for the fact that I didn't spend that time rebelling in more classically awesome ways.
posted by gurple at 2:41 PM on April 21, 2016 [27 favorites]
I of course spent the next five years sneaking around to play D&D. That was a lot of fun, but I blame the D&D hysteria of the late 70s and 80s for the fact that I didn't spend that time rebelling in more classically awesome ways.
posted by gurple at 2:41 PM on April 21, 2016 [27 favorites]
I guess every generation has its hysteria. In the 80s, I remember reading an older YA book and the protagonist's foster father dramatically ripped her comic books in half, saying "I won't have such trash in my house!" and I was like, wha?
posted by Melismata at 2:43 PM on April 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Melismata at 2:43 PM on April 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I casually mentioned to my mom that my friend and I were going to play D&D. She went totally cold and told me that I was never, ever, under any circumstances to play that game.
Clearly you should have said you were playing Gamma World.
posted by GuyZero at 2:45 PM on April 21, 2016 [36 favorites]
Clearly you should have said you were playing Gamma World.
posted by GuyZero at 2:45 PM on April 21, 2016 [36 favorites]
This was a big deal in my neighborhood too. It happened at about the same time as all of the special "backmasking" youth group meetings where me and all my evangelical youth group buddies would go to church so we could be warned against the dangers of rock n roll and the secret hidden messages that will cause you to do evil.
posted by Roger Dodger at 2:54 PM on April 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Roger Dodger at 2:54 PM on April 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
We cannot let Black Leaf's failure to save against poison be forgotten.
posted by delfin at 2:55 PM on April 21, 2016 [37 favorites]
posted by delfin at 2:55 PM on April 21, 2016 [37 favorites]
The great thing about history is the harrowing evidence it provides that her residents were, largely, fucking stupid.
And the suspicion that far future generations will also have this epiphany about the residents of now.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 2:55 PM on April 21, 2016 [34 favorites]
And the suspicion that far future generations will also have this epiphany about the residents of now.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 2:55 PM on April 21, 2016 [34 favorites]
> In the 80s, I remember reading an older YA book and the protagonist's foster father dramatically ripped her comic books in half, saying "I won't have such trash in my house!"
I guess I was fortunate to have been brought up in an isolated patch of the rust belt, in that while parents on the coasts were forbidding their children to play Dungeons & Dragons, our parents were still stuck on forbidding us to buy superhero comics. Since D&D and fantasy novels weren't comics, they got a pass, and for the most part we were happier for it.
posted by ardgedee at 2:57 PM on April 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I guess I was fortunate to have been brought up in an isolated patch of the rust belt, in that while parents on the coasts were forbidding their children to play Dungeons & Dragons, our parents were still stuck on forbidding us to buy superhero comics. Since D&D and fantasy novels weren't comics, they got a pass, and for the most part we were happier for it.
posted by ardgedee at 2:57 PM on April 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
HG Wells and Jerome K. Jerome invented a tabletop war game.
Neat! I wonder if the topic came up when Gary Gygax appeared on Wells's podcast?
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:59 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Neat! I wonder if the topic came up when Gary Gygax appeared on Wells's podcast?
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:59 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
I remember exactly which day my mother told me I was forbidden from playing D&D: 17 years ago yesterday, when Columbine happened.
She later added Power Rangers to the list of verboten media and nearly threw out all my Magic: The Gathering cards until she realized the only reason I was collecting them was because I was trying to get ones with unicorns on them. Thank god she thought Pokemon were cute ti begin with because man, as if I wasn't sheltered enough already.
posted by Hermione Granger at 3:01 PM on April 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
She later added Power Rangers to the list of verboten media and nearly threw out all my Magic: The Gathering cards until she realized the only reason I was collecting them was because I was trying to get ones with unicorns on them. Thank god she thought Pokemon were cute ti begin with because man, as if I wasn't sheltered enough already.
posted by Hermione Granger at 3:01 PM on April 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
The great thing about history is the harrowing evidence it provides that her residents were, largely, fucking stupid.
posted by the quidnunc kid
Which was clear when they elected that weak fool, cortex.
posted by GuyZero at 3:05 PM on April 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by the quidnunc kid
Which was clear when they elected that weak fool, cortex.
posted by GuyZero at 3:05 PM on April 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
My parents were (still are) super fundamental protestants. "Satanic" things like rock music, Halloween, Ouija Boards, and Dungeons and Dragons were forbidden. I remember when they burned a "Wheel of Time" book that I'd bought at a used book shop, while giving me a lecture about dark spiritual forces. This would have been mid 90's.
Focus on the Family put out a radio drama called "Adventures in Odyssey," which reinforced evangelical morals and provided entertainment on long car drives. They had an episode on D'n'D. It reinforced my parents' view of D'n'D as the most evil thing ever, and it really really really made me want to play.
I'm 30 now, and I've still never played DnD. I've really really wanted to since I moved out after high school, but I've never had both the friend group and the free time. I scratch the itch by listening to The Adventure Zone.
This "Moral Panic" presented in the NYT article comes across as really silly, and kinda cheesy. And it is! But dang, this reminds me of lots of dreams I had growing up, and a whole bunch of questions I had growing up that I never got to answer.
posted by DGStieber at 3:06 PM on April 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
Focus on the Family put out a radio drama called "Adventures in Odyssey," which reinforced evangelical morals and provided entertainment on long car drives. They had an episode on D'n'D. It reinforced my parents' view of D'n'D as the most evil thing ever, and it really really really made me want to play.
I'm 30 now, and I've still never played DnD. I've really really wanted to since I moved out after high school, but I've never had both the friend group and the free time. I scratch the itch by listening to The Adventure Zone.
This "Moral Panic" presented in the NYT article comes across as really silly, and kinda cheesy. And it is! But dang, this reminds me of lots of dreams I had growing up, and a whole bunch of questions I had growing up that I never got to answer.
posted by DGStieber at 3:06 PM on April 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
I played D&D regularly from 1979-1982, and I suspect my parents never heard of this moral panic -- and might have ignored it if they did. Fear of demons & magic was not a thing in my Catholic upbringing. I think they liked that I did play, actually: it proved I was capable of a social life that included boys, they knew where I was, and that my friend G's parents were in the house, providing us endless Coke and Doritos.
posted by suelac at 3:06 PM on April 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by suelac at 3:06 PM on April 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
A century ago, H. G. Wells, the English titan of science fiction, invented a tabletop game called Little Wars with a friend, Jerome K. Jerome.
In practice it's kinda less a "tabletop" game and more of a "the entire floor of at least one room of your house" game, but the principle is the same.
posted by branduno at 3:14 PM on April 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
In practice it's kinda less a "tabletop" game and more of a "the entire floor of at least one room of your house" game, but the principle is the same.
posted by branduno at 3:14 PM on April 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
To give my parents some well deserved credit, I found out about D&D at the height of the moral panic, they were totally aware of said panic, and when I asked for the books happily helped me purchase them. Thanks, Mom and Dad.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:17 PM on April 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:17 PM on April 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
Despite being Southern and rather conservatively Christian, my parents never seemed to have a problem with D&D during this period, thankfully. I've been playing a variety of RPGs off and on for the decades since, and am currently running two D&D games for friends of my wife.
(The one exception was when I had just spent an afternoon at age 11 or so, trying to come up with the perfect character name...and then wrote it down when my dad handed me a form to fill out for soccer. He then said that if I was going to have trouble distinguishing reality from fantasy, maybe I shouldn't be playing...but he quickly relented.)
posted by Four Ds at 3:25 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
(The one exception was when I had just spent an afternoon at age 11 or so, trying to come up with the perfect character name...and then wrote it down when my dad handed me a form to fill out for soccer. He then said that if I was going to have trouble distinguishing reality from fantasy, maybe I shouldn't be playing...but he quickly relented.)
posted by Four Ds at 3:25 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm glad my parents were sane. Nobody complained about anything. I played D&D and collected comics, nobody batted an eye. I think a childhood drawing monsters on every surface I could find prepared them for the worst. In kindergarten I told my teacher my favorite color was black and I refused to draw anything but Frankenstein, she called my Mom (who wisely did nothing). It was just more of the same after that.
posted by doctor_negative at 3:25 PM on April 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by doctor_negative at 3:25 PM on April 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
This moral panic only fueled my desire to play D&D, but being in southern Baptist household that was tantamount to treason. And so it's the reason that my first RPG was Star Frontiers. I saw it in a game store a couple months before my 10th birthday and prepared a case to present: on the box it says it's for 10 year olds, it has all the story telling and creativity elements that were obviously good for me, and there weren't any demons or risk of possession that they feared may spring out of a cardboard box.
posted by doctoryes at 3:30 PM on April 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by doctoryes at 3:30 PM on April 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
Talking to authority figures about Dungeons and Dragons was how I learned that a lot of people who think very seriously about themselves have no capacity for separating fantasy from reality as long as you phrase things in terms of their particular favored fantasy.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:33 PM on April 21, 2016 [41 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:33 PM on April 21, 2016 [41 favorites]
I remember around this time my largely absent, alcoholic mother telling me that she didn't want me playing that game, as it was, "not of the Lord."
I attribute D&D as being one of the things that made late childhood/early adolescence bearable. (Along with very obviously questionable rock music of course).
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 3:35 PM on April 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I attribute D&D as being one of the things that made late childhood/early adolescence bearable. (Along with very obviously questionable rock music of course).
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 3:35 PM on April 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
In all fairness you could roll one of the dice too hard and it could jump up and put your eye out.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:37 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:37 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
As a Fundamentalist Goth, I will be disappointed if my children do not play D&D, but I will love them all the same.
However, I will not tolerate them listening to any of this modern pop music in my household, as it promotes relationships of which we do not approve.
It's Lord Lucius Blackfeather and Mary Nocturne, not Adam and Eve and/or Steve!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 3:37 PM on April 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
However, I will not tolerate them listening to any of this modern pop music in my household, as it promotes relationships of which we do not approve.
It's Lord Lucius Blackfeather and Mary Nocturne, not Adam and Eve and/or Steve!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 3:37 PM on April 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
The only panic D&D should ever evoke is over how much the fucking books cost.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:44 PM on April 21, 2016 [39 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:44 PM on April 21, 2016 [39 favorites]
I'm another who grew up at ground zero for this panic: Southern Baptist household in Arkansas in the '80s with a dad who was the son of a preacher. And yet my dad gleefully did Dungeon Mastering duties for my brother and me.
I owe my parents a lot of thanks for encouraging an open and engaged approach to life.
posted by sgranade at 3:44 PM on April 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
I owe my parents a lot of thanks for encouraging an open and engaged approach to life.
posted by sgranade at 3:44 PM on April 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
As a Fundamentalist Goth, I will be disappointed if my children do not play D&D, but I will love them all the same.
I have to deal with way more pink&sparkly from my daughter than I'd like to, but one thing that's made it a lot more bearable is Mice and Mystics. Kid-friendly tabletop dungeon-crawling at its finest. Plant the seed early!
posted by gurple at 3:46 PM on April 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
I have to deal with way more pink&sparkly from my daughter than I'd like to, but one thing that's made it a lot more bearable is Mice and Mystics. Kid-friendly tabletop dungeon-crawling at its finest. Plant the seed early!
posted by gurple at 3:46 PM on April 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
The D&D Moral Panic inspired the greatest film of Tom Hanks' career, so I'm cool with it.
posted by Cookiebastard at 3:51 PM on April 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Cookiebastard at 3:51 PM on April 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
My mom forbid me from using the DnD books someone had gifted me. And we're talking, like, the complete beginner box set with dice, graph paper, a small dungeon module and a list of monsters. It's so strange looking back at it. The only other thing she felt strongly enough to forbid me to do at that age was watch Three's Company.
posted by infinitewindow at 3:55 PM on April 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 3:55 PM on April 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
No D&D discussion is complete without the Dr. Demento classic. (8-bit style)
posted by Fleebnork at 4:00 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Fleebnork at 4:00 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
In early 1978, I was a high school senior and I took Greyhound from Cincinnati to East Lansing to take an unbelievably difficult test for an academic scholarship at Michigan State University. Just about everybody invited to take that test was a nerdy misfit, but one kid stood out as especially awkward. And he was younger, too, like 15-16. Then I ran into him again in that fall when I got a lift off a ride board to go home from MSU for Thanksgiving. There were four or five of us jammed into a crappy little car and him with a giant garbage bag full of foul-smelling laundry on his lap. We dropped him off in Dayton and I never saw him again.
What do you know, it was this kid. I heard about the D&D and steam tunnel story but didn't make the connection until much later.
posted by rekrap at 4:04 PM on April 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
What do you know, it was this kid. I heard about the D&D and steam tunnel story but didn't make the connection until much later.
posted by rekrap at 4:04 PM on April 21, 2016 [10 favorites]
He then said that if I was going to have trouble distinguishing reality from fantasy
Yeah, even 12 year old me knew devout Christians lecturing people about the dangers of confusing fantasy and reality was pretty rich.
posted by nom de poop at 4:06 PM on April 21, 2016 [20 favorites]
Yeah, even 12 year old me knew devout Christians lecturing people about the dangers of confusing fantasy and reality was pretty rich.
posted by nom de poop at 4:06 PM on April 21, 2016 [20 favorites]
The only panic D&D should ever evoke is over how much the fucking books cost.
Especially if your fundamentalist family keeps throwing them and their replacements out.
/still bitter
posted by Celsius1414 at 4:08 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Especially if your fundamentalist family keeps throwing them and their replacements out.
/still bitter
posted by Celsius1414 at 4:08 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Erik Davis celebrated the new edition of D&D with an interview last week:
An inspiring chat with Jeremy Crawford, one of the lead designers of the new edition of the classic role playing game.
posted by bukvich at 4:14 PM on April 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
An inspiring chat with Jeremy Crawford, one of the lead designers of the new edition of the classic role playing game.
posted by bukvich at 4:14 PM on April 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I still find it hard to believe this "moral panic" business was real. Your parents really, really told you not to play, and threw away the games/modules you bought? That always sounded like an urban legend for me. My 6th grade teacher started us on the games. D&D, Gamma World, Boot Hill (yeah, we even played Boot friggin' Hill), Traveller, James Bond, Star Trek, Champions (hell, Champions was an excuse for my first girlfriend and I to make out at someone else's house), Call of Cthulhu, and boy I'm sure I'm forgetting others. And war games and strategy board games and Steve Jackson and miniatures...
My experience was just so opposite everything described here, I just can't imagine it being true. I mean, they're just games...
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:18 PM on April 21, 2016
My experience was just so opposite everything described here, I just can't imagine it being true. I mean, they're just games...
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:18 PM on April 21, 2016
White Wolf games actually did inspire some blood-drinking and murder -- well, I say "inspire," but that boy wadn't right and he would have killed somebody somehow anyway. Yet it never inspired the same moral panic, IIRC.
Sadly enough, after laughing at this D&D phenomenon for years, I learned that tabletop gaming can in fact summon real and very dangerous monsters, and parents are well advised to keep an eye on what their kids are doing in the game.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:19 PM on April 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
Sadly enough, after laughing at this D&D phenomenon for years, I learned that tabletop gaming can in fact summon real and very dangerous monsters, and parents are well advised to keep an eye on what their kids are doing in the game.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:19 PM on April 21, 2016 [6 favorites]
My mom never made me stop playing, but she did ask me at least once if I understood that it was just a game and not "real" and all that.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:20 PM on April 21, 2016
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:20 PM on April 21, 2016
I was a player at the height of the moral panic. At one point my Dad sat down with the books; I'm not quite sure what he made of them but he clearly concluded that these books full of endless tables that cross-referenced each other in order to spell out the results of die rolls weren't going to corrupt our souls. I like to think, that as an engineer, my Dad appreciated the devotion to using an element of randomization and lots of numbers to create something, even if it was all paper. In the end, the 'rents summed up their conclusion with "there are far worse things for you to spend money and time on."
posted by nubs at 4:21 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by nubs at 4:21 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
My mum was really worried about it too. The news was all flibberty-jibberty about some kid dying of a sword injury. I was playing it in the summer of 81 with a houseful of very cool stoner guys who were also a fantastic Rush cover band (with two drummers). I don't know if they ever made it out of the basement.
posted by bonobothegreat at 4:23 PM on April 21, 2016
posted by bonobothegreat at 4:23 PM on April 21, 2016
Incidentally, I was going down a wiki-hole about Forgotten Realms (which seemed like a good idea at the time) and read there that the idea was tweaked before its release in 1987:
Greenwood noted that TSR altered his original conception of the Realms being a place that we could travel to from our world, "Concerns over possible lawsuits (kids getting hurt while trying to 'find a gate') led TSR to de-emphasize this meaning".
posted by Countess Elena at 4:25 PM on April 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Greenwood noted that TSR altered his original conception of the Realms being a place that we could travel to from our world, "Concerns over possible lawsuits (kids getting hurt while trying to 'find a gate') led TSR to de-emphasize this meaning".
posted by Countess Elena at 4:25 PM on April 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
(hell, Champions was an excuse for my first girlfriend and I to make out at someone else's house)
You were just testing her Psychological Limitation: Code vs. Groping.
posted by delfin at 4:26 PM on April 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
You were just testing her Psychological Limitation: Code vs. Groping.
posted by delfin at 4:26 PM on April 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
My first experience playing D&D was a charity thing run by some older kids called, I swear to God, "D&D For Ethiopia"; you could stay in during recess and play for a quarter per session, with all of the proceeds (it must have added up to at least ten bucks!) supposedly going to famine relief.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:26 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:26 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Last night I had dinner with a friend of mine from university whom I now see maybe annually, if that (we live seventeen hours' drive apart). In the eighties we were both gamers; that is how we first met, actually.
He went on to become a Protestant minister. Both his daughters -- now university students themselves -- have played D&D and his only objection to that is that the younger one once left his 3.5 edition Player's Handbook at a friend's house after a game and it has never been recovered.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:36 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
He went on to become a Protestant minister. Both his daughters -- now university students themselves -- have played D&D and his only objection to that is that the younger one once left his 3.5 edition Player's Handbook at a friend's house after a game and it has never been recovered.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:36 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
In 1995, I was asked by a guidance counselor if I was "into Satanism" after mentioning I played Magic: The Gathering and D&D. If I think about it hard enough, I can almost hear the echo of my eyes rolling.
posted by Dark Messiah at 4:37 PM on April 21, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by Dark Messiah at 4:37 PM on April 21, 2016 [12 favorites]
My childhood was well after all the stuff mentioned in the article, but among evangelical homeschoolers it must have clung on. I know the standard list of forbidden material among my friends included Pokemon, yugioh and other trading card games, Harry Potter and pretty much anything else with "whitchcraft", such as the mmorpg Runescape, the golden compass, and any other new movie or book or game that was not sufficiently wholesome. I have a friend who couldn't watch anything with aliens in it, Lord knows why cause I asked and didn't get much of an answer. Missed out on star wars.
posted by bracems at 4:38 PM on April 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by bracems at 4:38 PM on April 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
When I was in middle school, I told my parents that my friends had been talking about a game called Dungeons & Dragons, and I wanted to check it out. They told me they'd heard it was linked to satanism. I told them my friends had never mentioned Satan but you did have to buy special dice and they were like, whatever then, we're not buying anything, that's why you get an allowance.
And that's the story of why I never got into D&D.
posted by solotoro at 4:50 PM on April 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
And that's the story of why I never got into D&D.
posted by solotoro at 4:50 PM on April 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
These erroneous news reports from my baptism in 1980 were so bad, we had to play secretly at our weekly DeMolay meeting.
We came up with, "but it's like Lord of the Rings and Risk"
That's when one had to endure the parental "more Hires anyone...Rold Golds?"
See, being in Hommlet, short of cash, the party found out the Hard Tack and Lantern guys were evil, so we set a barn fire and my character went in the shadow side of the Money changers place. Jaroo Ashstaff caught me but the MU put a forget spell on him.
I recommend the Celune and roast duck.
posted by clavdivs at 4:58 PM on April 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
We came up with, "but it's like Lord of the Rings and Risk"
That's when one had to endure the parental "more Hires anyone...Rold Golds?"
See, being in Hommlet, short of cash, the party found out the Hard Tack and Lantern guys were evil, so we set a barn fire and my character went in the shadow side of the Money changers place. Jaroo Ashstaff caught me but the MU put a forget spell on him.
I recommend the Celune and roast duck.
posted by clavdivs at 4:58 PM on April 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
This article missing the whole context about SRA, Geraldo, etc. which dovetailed with the D&D scare.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:03 PM on April 21, 2016
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:03 PM on April 21, 2016
And NEVER make a deal with the Cyrianeate Gem Dragon Syndicate.
posted by clavdivs at 5:05 PM on April 21, 2016
posted by clavdivs at 5:05 PM on April 21, 2016
And I honestly did not see that previous Geraldo thread...
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:19 PM on April 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:19 PM on April 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
And so it's the reason that my first RPG was Star Frontiers.
So it's funny. Star Frontiers was probably put out as a competitor to Traveller more than anything but it really could have been TSR's way to slyly offset the moral panic around D&D.
I've read a couple histories of the early RPG industry lately: Of Dice and Men (a great book) and I backed the Kickstarter for Designers and Dragons (more academic but very solid research). And my takeaway was that in the 80's neither TSR nor any other company knew what the hell they were doing. D&D was printing money and no one knew why or what to do next. They clearly did a ton of other stuff but it was random and haphazard - if you told me Gygax's product development strategy was to roll a bunch of D20s I would believe you.
Maybe people wanted high fantasy and not space opera in their games but really Star Frontiers should have been a lot more successful than it was.
(project 5,000 on my list of projects is to catalogue all the Dragon articles for SF so I have all the errata and apply to run a classic SF session at GenCon one of these years... I've got the articles catalogues at least. I suspect I will never be quite organized to apply for GenCon. But I still have those two purple boxes on my shelf next to my desk)
posted by GuyZero at 5:28 PM on April 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
So it's funny. Star Frontiers was probably put out as a competitor to Traveller more than anything but it really could have been TSR's way to slyly offset the moral panic around D&D.
I've read a couple histories of the early RPG industry lately: Of Dice and Men (a great book) and I backed the Kickstarter for Designers and Dragons (more academic but very solid research). And my takeaway was that in the 80's neither TSR nor any other company knew what the hell they were doing. D&D was printing money and no one knew why or what to do next. They clearly did a ton of other stuff but it was random and haphazard - if you told me Gygax's product development strategy was to roll a bunch of D20s I would believe you.
Maybe people wanted high fantasy and not space opera in their games but really Star Frontiers should have been a lot more successful than it was.
(project 5,000 on my list of projects is to catalogue all the Dragon articles for SF so I have all the errata and apply to run a classic SF session at GenCon one of these years... I've got the articles catalogues at least. I suspect I will never be quite organized to apply for GenCon. But I still have those two purple boxes on my shelf next to my desk)
posted by GuyZero at 5:28 PM on April 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
We came up with, "but it's like Lord of the Rings and Risk"
More like Lord of the Rings meets double-entry bookkeeping.
posted by GuyZero at 5:29 PM on April 21, 2016 [16 favorites]
More like Lord of the Rings meets double-entry bookkeeping.
posted by GuyZero at 5:29 PM on April 21, 2016 [16 favorites]
Funnily enough, I was just listening to the Monster Talk episode about this phenomenon and it was really interesting. The guest had written a book about the Satanic Panic and how it related to DnD.
In the late nineties my only exposure to Satanic Panic was my grandmother refusing to buy my cousin any Magic the Gathering cards, "just in case."
posted by possibilityleft at 5:37 PM on April 21, 2016
In the late nineties my only exposure to Satanic Panic was my grandmother refusing to buy my cousin any Magic the Gathering cards, "just in case."
posted by possibilityleft at 5:37 PM on April 21, 2016
In practice it's kinda less a "tabletop" game and more of a "the entire floor of at least one room of your house" game, but the principle is the same.
So, Avalon Hill, then?
posted by The Bellman at 5:43 PM on April 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
So, Avalon Hill, then?
posted by The Bellman at 5:43 PM on April 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
In addition to the offending steam tunnel event inspiring the Monster's and Mazes movie with Tom Hanks as noted above, there was also this episode of Greatest American Hero about a game of "Wizards and Warlocks".
It has this great exchange of dialog in it starting around here with the lines:
"My Troll has declared himself, if you have any Trolls among you declare them now"
...
"You're saying that you're unfamiliar with the rules of the third ring; how to engage in a Gnome probe against a keeper of the clock presiding over the fleeing urchin?"
posted by doctoryes at 5:52 PM on April 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
It has this great exchange of dialog in it starting around here with the lines:
"My Troll has declared himself, if you have any Trolls among you declare them now"
...
"You're saying that you're unfamiliar with the rules of the third ring; how to engage in a Gnome probe against a keeper of the clock presiding over the fleeing urchin?"
posted by doctoryes at 5:52 PM on April 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
If only I could send a copy of F.A.T.A.L. back in time for those concerned parents and clergy to view.
ROLL FOR ANAL CIRCUMFERENCE!
posted by delfin at 5:57 PM on April 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
ROLL FOR ANAL CIRCUMFERENCE!
posted by delfin at 5:57 PM on April 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
I remember seeing John Stossel do a "report" on D&D when I was a kid. He was telling lies, lies he had to know were lies, and he was being awfully smug about it. It was astonishing and awful. Why was this jerk on the news telling these lies? Why wasn't somebody stopping him?
It was a feeling I would get used to, as the years passed.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 5:58 PM on April 21, 2016 [31 favorites]
It was a feeling I would get used to, as the years passed.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 5:58 PM on April 21, 2016 [31 favorites]
There was a D&D group at my suburban Atlanta Catholic church in 1981. When some people complained, Father Kenny told them, "There's nothing wrong with it. Go find something else to worry about."
posted by ob1quixote at 6:11 PM on April 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 6:11 PM on April 21, 2016 [18 favorites]
I still find it hard to believe this "moral panic" business was real. Your parents really, really told you not to play, and threw away the games/modules you bought? That always sounded like an urban legend for me.
Maybe it was having relatively cool, agnostic, sensible Canadian parents, but my mom gave me my first set of D&D (J. Eric Holmes-edited blue book FTW) and my dad played a few sessions of AD&D, until his gnome thief Flem perished in the gut of that blasted giant frog at the moathouse gate near Hommlet. Then he shrugged and went back to his Atari 400.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:20 PM on April 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
Maybe it was having relatively cool, agnostic, sensible Canadian parents, but my mom gave me my first set of D&D (J. Eric Holmes-edited blue book FTW) and my dad played a few sessions of AD&D, until his gnome thief Flem perished in the gut of that blasted giant frog at the moathouse gate near Hommlet. Then he shrugged and went back to his Atari 400.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:20 PM on April 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
When I told my parents I was playing D&D they just looked disappointed, and mum pointed out that fraternizing with dark and sinister forces was something better left to Family Time. Grandma got right into it though. One time she led us on a dungeon crawl and at the end of it played D&D with the survivors. I should probably mention I was raised by the Addams family.
posted by um at 6:42 PM on April 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by um at 6:42 PM on April 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
I remember seeing John Stossel do a "report" on D&D when I was a kid. He was telling lies, lies he had to know were lies, and he was being awfully smug about it. It was astonishing and awful. Why was this jerk on the news telling these lies? Why wasn't somebody stopping him?
It was a feeling I would get used to, as the years passed.
Particularly with John Stossel. What a dick.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:43 PM on April 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
It was a feeling I would get used to, as the years passed.
Particularly with John Stossel. What a dick.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:43 PM on April 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
Talking to authority figures about Dungeons and Dragons was how I learned that a lot of people who think very seriously about themselves have no capacity for separating fantasy from reality
I was thinking along very similar lines when I watched this the other day, but for me (probably because I wasn't personally directly affected by the panic) the lesson was about the media. I think the D&D panic was the first experience I had, as a kid, with the faces on the TV just straight-out, unambiguously, unapologetically lying through their teeth, about something that I knew the truth of directly, at first hand. I remember being a little jarred and nonplussed about it, and thinking about the implication for all the other stuff they were saying (some of which I'd already heard adults call false, probably, but most of it seemed, comparatively, so remote). Probably it was a good, educational experience to have at a young age.
posted by RogerB at 6:48 PM on April 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
I was thinking along very similar lines when I watched this the other day, but for me (probably because I wasn't personally directly affected by the panic) the lesson was about the media. I think the D&D panic was the first experience I had, as a kid, with the faces on the TV just straight-out, unambiguously, unapologetically lying through their teeth, about something that I knew the truth of directly, at first hand. I remember being a little jarred and nonplussed about it, and thinking about the implication for all the other stuff they were saying (some of which I'd already heard adults call false, probably, but most of it seemed, comparatively, so remote). Probably it was a good, educational experience to have at a young age.
posted by RogerB at 6:48 PM on April 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
It was astonishing and awful. Why was this jerk on the news telling these lies?
Ha, on non-preview, yes, this exactly
posted by RogerB at 6:54 PM on April 21, 2016
Ha, on non-preview, yes, this exactly
posted by RogerB at 6:54 PM on April 21, 2016
Some of the anecdata tracks very much with my own experience growing up, which is that my parents were/are Christian and highly conservative, but they weren't crazy. I realize that some people equate the two, and unfortunately I do understand why, but my parents just looked at it and said "eh, it's a game."
posted by randomkeystrike at 6:59 PM on April 21, 2016
posted by randomkeystrike at 6:59 PM on April 21, 2016
No D&D discussion is complete without the Dr. Demento classic yt . (8-bit style)
That's an 8-bit animation of a sketch by the Dead Alewives, which included Dan Harmon of Community fame.
Topically, his Harmonquest animated series (based in fantasy role playing) will be airing soonish on the SeeSo Channel (I think that's what it's called.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:05 PM on April 21, 2016
That's an 8-bit animation of a sketch by the Dead Alewives, which included Dan Harmon of Community fame.
Topically, his Harmonquest animated series (based in fantasy role playing) will be airing soonish on the SeeSo Channel (I think that's what it's called.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:05 PM on April 21, 2016
When my folks briefly investigated the moral panic (somewhere in the later 80s), they ended up sitting in on a couple of sessions and decided it was boring.
That said: ol' Patricia Pulling's come up for me a few times in the last couple of weeks, and it's starting to feel weird.
posted by Archelaus at 7:19 PM on April 21, 2016
That said: ol' Patricia Pulling's come up for me a few times in the last couple of weeks, and it's starting to feel weird.
posted by Archelaus at 7:19 PM on April 21, 2016
I'm pretty sure that there was some sort of moral panic every two weeks during the '80s.
posted by octothorpe at 7:31 PM on April 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 7:31 PM on April 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Something just occurred to me. I didn't start playing RPGs in earnest until several years ago, and one of the things I've wondered about since then was why I didn't get into them a couple of decades earlier or so, when I was an undergraduate in college. I think now that maybe that was the worst time to get into them, thanks to the satanic panic; RPGs didn't go underground, exactly, but I think that at least some of the people involved in them were more than a little circumspect about who they let into their hobby.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:52 PM on April 21, 2016
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:52 PM on April 21, 2016
Does the fact that NYT is running this in Retro Report make anybody else here who lived through it feel kind of ancient? I am hoping this "look back, far far back to the 1980s" is just the logical extension of the corporate stripmining and remaking of the pop culture of my youth, rather than that 46 is now considered not merely middle but very old age. But maybe I am fooling myself.
posted by gingerest at 7:54 PM on April 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by gingerest at 7:54 PM on April 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
White Wolf games actually did inspire some blood-drinking and murder -- well, I say "inspire," but that boy wadn't right and he would have killed somebody somehow anyway. Yet it never inspired the same moral panic, IIRC.
It got my Vampire LARP kicked out of my university's school of theology when the dean got wind of what we did beneath stained glass*.
*played rock paper scissors
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:56 PM on April 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
It got my Vampire LARP kicked out of my university's school of theology when the dean got wind of what we did beneath stained glass*.
*played rock paper scissors
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:56 PM on April 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah nobody panicked as RogerB explains. It was a straight forward early attempt by media to control content and moral outrage.
I guess it was a slow time for the news to complain about drugs, because crack hadn't been invented yet and all the newscasters were nose deep in cocaine.
They really found their stride with the Satanic Day Care Centers creating a whole cottage industry of bullshit.
Once the FCC was dismantled in the 90s?
RUN WITH IT welcome to Fox News.
posted by Max Power at 7:56 PM on April 21, 2016
I guess it was a slow time for the news to complain about drugs, because crack hadn't been invented yet and all the newscasters were nose deep in cocaine.
They really found their stride with the Satanic Day Care Centers creating a whole cottage industry of bullshit.
Once the FCC was dismantled in the 90s?
RUN WITH IT welcome to Fox News.
posted by Max Power at 7:56 PM on April 21, 2016
Particularly with John Stossel. What a dick.
When work chat turned from Prince to other celebrities who might die soon, one of my staff brought up Stossel's cancer and I was like "We're talking about people who will be missed, Joan."
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:01 PM on April 21, 2016 [17 favorites]
When work chat turned from Prince to other celebrities who might die soon, one of my staff brought up Stossel's cancer and I was like "We're talking about people who will be missed, Joan."
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:01 PM on April 21, 2016 [17 favorites]
Even without media blathering my dad was the kind of parent who took heavy metal bands seriously when they claimed to love Satan so D&D was never going to be ok.
posted by emjaybee at 8:06 PM on April 21, 2016
posted by emjaybee at 8:06 PM on April 21, 2016
I was in middle school when a very nerdy older boy was nice to me (a rarity at the time, most people were not nice to me) and after we chatted for awhile, invited me to play D&D. I excitedly went home that day and told my mom about the person who was NICE TO ME! And I'm going to go play D&D with him and his friends!
My parents are altogether very sane people, mildly Christian but not serious about it (we only went to church for a very brief period) and had no issues with things like Harry Potter and Pokemon and whatnot. They weren't big fans of heavy metal, but didn't take all the image stuff seriously. Both of them are nerdy types, into fantasy and sci-fi and whatnot.
And yet, my mom absolutely lost her mind when I said I was going to play this game. I really didn't know much about it, but I'd been sort of casually roleplaying on AOL chat for a year or so and the way he described it sounded pretty similar to that, but in real life. My mom told me that I was to NEVER SPEAK TO HIM AGAIN and I must NEVER PLAY THAT GAME.
She told me that people who play that game wind up in dangerous cults, that it's not innocent, that they'd make me do horrible things if I spent any time with them. She scared the hell out of me the way she talked about it, so of course I did what she said. She had never had a freakout like this before, so I assumed she must have a damn good reason for believing this stuff.
Now, knowing the truth, I really resent it. I could have used that friendship (at the time I had approximately one friend, and even that one I rarely saw outside of school) and probably would have enjoyed D&D a lot. I still don't know why she acted like that and it's one of the things I wish I could go back and change.
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 8:37 PM on April 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
My parents are altogether very sane people, mildly Christian but not serious about it (we only went to church for a very brief period) and had no issues with things like Harry Potter and Pokemon and whatnot. They weren't big fans of heavy metal, but didn't take all the image stuff seriously. Both of them are nerdy types, into fantasy and sci-fi and whatnot.
And yet, my mom absolutely lost her mind when I said I was going to play this game. I really didn't know much about it, but I'd been sort of casually roleplaying on AOL chat for a year or so and the way he described it sounded pretty similar to that, but in real life. My mom told me that I was to NEVER SPEAK TO HIM AGAIN and I must NEVER PLAY THAT GAME.
She told me that people who play that game wind up in dangerous cults, that it's not innocent, that they'd make me do horrible things if I spent any time with them. She scared the hell out of me the way she talked about it, so of course I did what she said. She had never had a freakout like this before, so I assumed she must have a damn good reason for believing this stuff.
Now, knowing the truth, I really resent it. I could have used that friendship (at the time I had approximately one friend, and even that one I rarely saw outside of school) and probably would have enjoyed D&D a lot. I still don't know why she acted like that and it's one of the things I wish I could go back and change.
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 8:37 PM on April 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
More like Lord of the Rings meets double-entry bookkeeping.
Cecil Adams said it better:
"Here we have a game that combines the charm of a Pentagon briefing with the excitement of double-entry bookkeeping."
posted by Confess, Fletch at 8:53 PM on April 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
Cecil Adams said it better:
"Here we have a game that combines the charm of a Pentagon briefing with the excitement of double-entry bookkeeping."
posted by Confess, Fletch at 8:53 PM on April 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
a fantastic Rush cover band (with two drummers)
congratulations, you have found the Most D&D Concept
posted by DoctorFedora at 9:06 PM on April 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
congratulations, you have found the Most D&D Concept
posted by DoctorFedora at 9:06 PM on April 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
As a Fundamentalist Goth, I will be disappointed if my children do not play D&D, but I will love them all the same.
I would have thought Fundamentalist Goths would be all about White Wolf.
posted by traveler_ at 9:21 PM on April 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I would have thought Fundamentalist Goths would be all about White Wolf.
posted by traveler_ at 9:21 PM on April 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
the greatest film of Tom Hanks' career
Ah, Mazes and Monsters, a veritable classic of threads about panics about D&D. Man, I loved that movie. Good stuff.
posted by Ghidorah at 9:39 PM on April 21, 2016
Ah, Mazes and Monsters, a veritable classic of threads about panics about D&D. Man, I loved that movie. Good stuff.
posted by Ghidorah at 9:39 PM on April 21, 2016
"Oh, my goodness! Don't take acid, you'll pick the flowers on the gas stove!!!"
posted by carping demon at 10:09 PM on April 21, 2016
posted by carping demon at 10:09 PM on April 21, 2016
Cookiebastard: "The D&D Moral Panic inspired the greatest film of Tom Hanks' career, so I'm cool with it."
Joe Versus The Volcano?
posted by RobotHero at 10:23 PM on April 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
Joe Versus The Volcano?
posted by RobotHero at 10:23 PM on April 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
I was lucky to avoid this moral panic, mainly because my parents and their friends started playing D&D in 78/79 (right at the height of The Great Dice Shortge, when copies of the Holmes Basic set were packed with numbered chits to represent the dice). I was 7/8 at this time and grew up around the game. As the oldest of everyone's children, it fell on me to play test the Moldvay Basic Set with my friends when it came out in 81 (the adults were heavily finacially committed to AD&D and wary of The Forking off of B/X from the original game but were hoping that the crunchy junior accounting rules of AD&D was compatible with the looser, story-telling style of B/X).
posted by KingEdRa at 10:24 PM on April 21, 2016
posted by KingEdRa at 10:24 PM on April 21, 2016
She told me that people who play that game wind up in dangerous cults
Well, from the looks of it, quite a few of us became Metafilter members, so she might have a point there.
posted by nubs at 10:27 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Well, from the looks of it, quite a few of us became Metafilter members, so she might have a point there.
posted by nubs at 10:27 PM on April 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Joey Michaels: "To give my parents some well deserved credit, I found out about D&D at the height of the moral panic, they were totally aware of said panic, and when I asked for the books happily helped me purchase them. Thanks, Mom and Dad."
To give my parents some well deserved credit, I found out about D&D before the moral panic, by reading my dad's AD&D books (DM's guide, player's manual, and monster manual).
The only thing I remember hearing critical was when, after a few years of playing AD&D with my friends, I convinced my dad to play a game with us when a friend spent the night. My dad ended up quitting out of frustration with us because our interpretation of THAC0 rules was so wrong as to cease to resemble reality.
I never encountered another kid who wasn't allowed to play D&D, either.
In summary, Houston: Not as Texas as you think.
posted by Bugbread at 12:15 AM on April 22, 2016
To give my parents some well deserved credit, I found out about D&D before the moral panic, by reading my dad's AD&D books (DM's guide, player's manual, and monster manual).
The only thing I remember hearing critical was when, after a few years of playing AD&D with my friends, I convinced my dad to play a game with us when a friend spent the night. My dad ended up quitting out of frustration with us because our interpretation of THAC0 rules was so wrong as to cease to resemble reality.
I never encountered another kid who wasn't allowed to play D&D, either.
In summary, Houston: Not as Texas as you think.
posted by Bugbread at 12:15 AM on April 22, 2016
So what you're saying is, Texas is a land of contrasts?
posted by Ghidorah at 1:12 AM on April 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Ghidorah at 1:12 AM on April 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's Lord Lucius Blackfeather and Mary Nocturne, not Adam and Eve and/or Steve!
You.... It's Strahd/Black Leaf.
Or maybe Soth/Vecna around these parts.
I mean, you may as well say Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way/Harry.
posted by Mezentian at 1:31 AM on April 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
You.... It's Strahd/Black Leaf.
Or maybe Soth/Vecna around these parts.
I mean, you may as well say Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way/Harry.
posted by Mezentian at 1:31 AM on April 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I still find it hard to believe this "moral panic" business was real.
It was, and it was exported around the world.
I lost a player from my group after we had a game at his fundamentalist Catholic parents' house.
Not sure why, but something tipped the family over the edge.
posted by Mezentian at 1:34 AM on April 22, 2016
It was, and it was exported around the world.
I lost a player from my group after we had a game at his fundamentalist Catholic parents' house.
Not sure why, but something tipped the family over the edge.
posted by Mezentian at 1:34 AM on April 22, 2016
So what you're saying is, Texas is a land of contrasts?
No, Texas is the place to be.
(True but not interesting story: we once had the cops called on us for an all night D&D game, and when my friend, who answered the door in his Addihash T-shirt, with Beers, Steers and Queers blaring away on the TV, I recall the two young constables being quite bemused.)
posted by Mezentian at 1:42 AM on April 22, 2016
No, Texas is the place to be.
(True but not interesting story: we once had the cops called on us for an all night D&D game, and when my friend, who answered the door in his Addihash T-shirt, with Beers, Steers and Queers blaring away on the TV, I recall the two young constables being quite bemused.)
posted by Mezentian at 1:42 AM on April 22, 2016
The "moral panic" over D&D never reached the same levels of craziness that comic books and rock experienced in the 50s or that rap experienced in 80s. It just didn't. Part of that is because the hobby was just so baffling and weird that the media couldn't really cover it the same way they covered the other "threats to western civilization". Tabletop role playing games not only look harmless, they look downright silly. The hobby was/is just too geeky to convincingly scare middle America.
posted by Beholder at 1:42 AM on April 22, 2016
posted by Beholder at 1:42 AM on April 22, 2016
my liberal catholic family fell sway to this moral panic unfortunately. luckily other role playing games seemed to be ok, but D&D was a bridge too far. I came home from elementary school one day to find my books and notebooks of notes and characters just...gone.
Fab Press put out a book on Satanic Panic from the 80s which was some fascinating reading. It let me see all of the stuff that reached my part of Texas versus what other people were dealing with.
posted by purosaurus at 3:53 AM on April 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Fab Press put out a book on Satanic Panic from the 80s which was some fascinating reading. It let me see all of the stuff that reached my part of Texas versus what other people were dealing with.
posted by purosaurus at 3:53 AM on April 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I remember the moral panic around D&D. I played a little bit and although my parents ignored the hysteria completely, a couple of my friends were banned from playing. In my hazy memories of the era, the concerns about D&D are mixed in with Tipper Gore's music craziness and the Moral Majority cultural crusades, though in reality I am sure they were different phenomena and perhaps even separated in time.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:14 AM on April 22, 2016
posted by Dip Flash at 4:14 AM on April 22, 2016
How nuts! I was delighted that my son, now 45, played D&D with his friends when he was 12, because it also got him to read which was not his favorite thing. A younger son was into Warhammer and had lots of little figures he painted, that was fine with me as well. But then I am a big Tolkein fan and took my kids to the Ren Faire all in costume, so fantasy stuff has always been fine with me. We also were very big on Halloween. Here in NJ I barely heard anything against D&D. Nor at Church, and I am Catholic but very liberal.
posted by mermayd at 4:15 AM on April 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by mermayd at 4:15 AM on April 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
There wasn't much of a moral panic about D&D in the UK but my parents had heard something and were generally against it. Then I started a fanzine and there was more confusion.
I lost touch with the guy who was my original DM, but would occasionally hear about what he was doing. Here's one such update, from the Guardian. Scroll down to the story with the headline 'Crack man naked on roof'. That's him.
posted by Hogshead at 4:22 AM on April 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I lost touch with the guy who was my original DM, but would occasionally hear about what he was doing. Here's one such update, from the Guardian. Scroll down to the story with the headline 'Crack man naked on roof'. That's him.
posted by Hogshead at 4:22 AM on April 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ha, Lord Satan will reward me greatly when he hears how I have led young people to sit quietly indoors playing a long complicated game!
posted by Segundus at 4:44 AM on April 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Segundus at 4:44 AM on April 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
I remember seeing John Stossel do a "report"
Wrong mustache. Geraldo Rivera was the one pushing the Satanic Panic over D&D, not Stossel.
posted by Jacqueline at 4:50 AM on April 22, 2016
Wrong mustache. Geraldo Rivera was the one pushing the Satanic Panic over D&D, not Stossel.
posted by Jacqueline at 4:50 AM on April 22, 2016
My mom fell for every dumb thing like this that came along. That's why I wasn't allowed to read comic books when I was a kid or play D&D as a teenager. It didn't help that my grandmother would send her clippings from every silly tabloid that she read warning of these pitfalls. In the case of D&D I think I really missed out. Fortunately, the comic ban didn't extend to Mad Magazine for some reason so I had that.
posted by lordrunningclam at 5:28 AM on April 22, 2016
posted by lordrunningclam at 5:28 AM on April 22, 2016
Dip Flash, Monsters and Mazes and the D&D furor were an 80s thing. I'm pretty sure Tipper and the explicit lyrics warnings were a reaction against stuff like 2 Live Crew and was a part of Al's rise to power/VPness in the early nineties, but I could be wrong.
posted by Ghidorah at 5:32 AM on April 22, 2016
posted by Ghidorah at 5:32 AM on April 22, 2016
Dip Flash, Monsters and Mazes and the D&D furor were an 80s thing.
I remember it all, but I was young and didn't pay much attention other than for the lulz, so it is all blended together in my memory as a general sense of silly hysteria over unimportant things like music lyrics and role playing games, even though they were of course separate issues. In contrast, the Moral Majority stuff was more influential and had some negative impacts on the society and on vulnerable people, while people being afraid of D&D didn't affect much.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:37 AM on April 22, 2016
I remember it all, but I was young and didn't pay much attention other than for the lulz, so it is all blended together in my memory as a general sense of silly hysteria over unimportant things like music lyrics and role playing games, even though they were of course separate issues. In contrast, the Moral Majority stuff was more influential and had some negative impacts on the society and on vulnerable people, while people being afraid of D&D didn't affect much.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:37 AM on April 22, 2016
Tipper was so mid-late '80s it was not funny.
I mean, she was around for Peak Twisted Sister and Peak Hair.
By '91 that'd washed away with Nirvana.
posted by Mezentian at 5:37 AM on April 22, 2016
I mean, she was around for Peak Twisted Sister and Peak Hair.
By '91 that'd washed away with Nirvana.
posted by Mezentian at 5:37 AM on April 22, 2016
I just looked and the PMRC was founded in 1985, so later in time than the peak of the D&D stuff. It's odd how memory works, I would have sworn that they were simultaneous.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:40 AM on April 22, 2016
posted by Dip Flash at 5:40 AM on April 22, 2016
That's an 8-bit animation of a sketch by the Dead Alewives, which included Dan Harmon of Community fame.
I had no idea. I ran across it initially when some friends played it for me years ago. I had always heard it attributed to Dr. Demento and I found the clip by searching for "Dr Demento D&D"
Learn something new every day. Do I get XP for this?
posted by Fleebnork at 5:53 AM on April 22, 2016
I had no idea. I ran across it initially when some friends played it for me years ago. I had always heard it attributed to Dr. Demento and I found the clip by searching for "Dr Demento D&D"
Learn something new every day. Do I get XP for this?
posted by Fleebnork at 5:53 AM on April 22, 2016
Gary Gygax appeared on Wells's podcast
Speaking of, the other day Gary Gygax's name popped into my head, and for a second I couldn't remember if he was a porn star, or the creator of D&D.
posted by not that girl at 6:44 AM on April 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Speaking of, the other day Gary Gygax's name popped into my head, and for a second I couldn't remember if he was a porn star, or the creator of D&D.
posted by not that girl at 6:44 AM on April 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I just looked and the PMRC was founded in 1985, so later in time than the peak of the D&D stuff.
I got my first Basic D&D set in about '85, and the Satan-D&D thing was still quite pervasive (my mum had... concerns about buying it for me).
We were, you may recall, not that far from the era where there were stories on the "legit" news about possessed Cabbage Patch Kids, and repressed memories were still very much in the news.
posted by Mezentian at 6:45 AM on April 22, 2016
I got my first Basic D&D set in about '85, and the Satan-D&D thing was still quite pervasive (my mum had... concerns about buying it for me).
We were, you may recall, not that far from the era where there were stories on the "legit" news about possessed Cabbage Patch Kids, and repressed memories were still very much in the news.
posted by Mezentian at 6:45 AM on April 22, 2016
I'm 30 now, and I've still never played DnD. I've really really wanted to since I moved out after high school, but I've never had both the friend group and the free time.
The starter set can be gotten at Amazon for under $15 and is a good deal. My 14-year-old is currently dungeon-mastering the family through the included scenario and doing a good job despite his lack of experience. Of course, as Matthew Baldwin pointed out in his 2015 Good Gift Games Guide, this pricing is essentially the equivalent of drug dealers giving out the first dose free.
posted by not that girl at 6:48 AM on April 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
The starter set can be gotten at Amazon for under $15 and is a good deal. My 14-year-old is currently dungeon-mastering the family through the included scenario and doing a good job despite his lack of experience. Of course, as Matthew Baldwin pointed out in his 2015 Good Gift Games Guide, this pricing is essentially the equivalent of drug dealers giving out the first dose free.
posted by not that girl at 6:48 AM on April 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
My mom was big into '80s satanic panic, so D&D (as well as He-Man, Scooby Doo, and frickin' Voltron) was verboten.
I started playing D&D two years ago, when I asked a facebook friend if I could join his game. It's glorious.
posted by HeroZero at 7:14 AM on April 22, 2016
I started playing D&D two years ago, when I asked a facebook friend if I could join his game. It's glorious.
posted by HeroZero at 7:14 AM on April 22, 2016
I pity this poor Satan, whose reputation so far exceeds his might. I dimly understand from historical reports that God's armies have won many bloody victories in every age, and whole lands as well as lives have been claimed in his name; today his soldiers put their atrocities on YouTube to more efficiently shock us. Few of these killers throughout the ages claimed to march under the banners of the King of Hell - but still a Satanic book, game or CD is a more frightening object than God's rifle.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 7:16 AM on April 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by the quidnunc kid at 7:16 AM on April 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's Lord Lucius Blackfeather and Mary Nocturne, not Adam and Eve and/or Steve!
You.... It's Strahd/Black Leaf.
Or maybe Soth/Vecna around these parts.
I mean, you may as well say Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way/Harry.
Hey- you keep Lemuria in your own way, let me keep it in mine.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:37 AM on April 22, 2016
You.... It's Strahd/Black Leaf.
Or maybe Soth/Vecna around these parts.
I mean, you may as well say Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way/Harry.
Hey- you keep Lemuria in your own way, let me keep it in mine.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:37 AM on April 22, 2016
Halloween Jack: RPGs didn't go underground, exactly, but I think that at least some of the people involved in them were more than a little circumspect about who they let into their hobby.
I wonder if that was a progenitor to the gatekeeping that's still so fucking prevalent in geeky circles.
posted by hanov3r at 8:38 AM on April 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I wonder if that was a progenitor to the gatekeeping that's still so fucking prevalent in geeky circles.
posted by hanov3r at 8:38 AM on April 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
At one point I bought a used RPG That had a really simple name...Fantasy Roleplay maybe? But not the warhammer one. It was a different size book than most of the RPG hardbacks. It was shaped more like a text book, i.e. More square. It had a sophomoric picture of a wizardly guy sitting there contemplating his table of books and a skull I think. The rules were nigh indecipherable and very dense. But, it had stats for God, Satan, Jesus, the Holy Ghost, beezlebub, lucifer, etc etc etc. it was awesome!
posted by museum of fire ants at 8:42 AM on April 22, 2016
posted by museum of fire ants at 8:42 AM on April 22, 2016
That would be the infamously crap Fantasy Wargaming: the Highest Level of All. System Mastery did a fairly savage review of it that's pretty entertaining listening.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:46 AM on April 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:46 AM on April 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Ghidorah: "I'm pretty sure Tipper and the explicit lyrics warnings were a reaction against stuff like 2 Live Crew and was a part of Al's rise to power/VPness in the early nineties, but I could be wrong."
Fun fact that I learned recently for a sad reason, but I read it was a reaction against Prince.
posted by RobotHero at 8:58 AM on April 22, 2016
Fun fact that I learned recently for a sad reason, but I read it was a reaction against Prince.
posted by RobotHero at 8:58 AM on April 22, 2016
Hey- you keep Lemuria in your own way, let me keep it in mine.
Well, if you want to stick with one of the LESSER sunken cities, sure.
posted by Mezentian at 9:07 AM on April 22, 2016
Well, if you want to stick with one of the LESSER sunken cities, sure.
posted by Mezentian at 9:07 AM on April 22, 2016
Yes! That's it. such a strange book. It was not without its charms. It was like a fever dream from a Dokken loving actuary hermit.
posted by museum of fire ants at 9:09 AM on April 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by museum of fire ants at 9:09 AM on April 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wonder if that was a progenitor to the gatekeeping that's still so fucking prevalent in geeky circles.
I don't think so. It's just plain old poor social skills. It's not like D&D groups were being busted up by undercover 700 Club agents like some sort of reverse A-Team episode.
posted by GuyZero at 9:24 AM on April 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't think so. It's just plain old poor social skills. It's not like D&D groups were being busted up by undercover 700 Club agents like some sort of reverse A-Team episode.
posted by GuyZero at 9:24 AM on April 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
undercover 700 Club agents like some sort of reverse A-Team episode.
Hmmm.
Whoever my agent is, get SyFy on the phone.
And find a Beiber clone, and a hot Woz.
And then we'll cast Robbie Ammell as Steve Jackson.
posted by Mezentian at 9:30 AM on April 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hmmm.
Whoever my agent is, get SyFy on the phone.
And find a Beiber clone, and a hot Woz.
And then we'll cast Robbie Ammell as Steve Jackson.
posted by Mezentian at 9:30 AM on April 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Which Steve Jackson? US Steve Jackson of Car Wars / OGRE fame or UK Steve Jackson of Warhammer / "I'll Sue You For Saying 'Space Marines'" fame?
posted by hanov3r at 10:56 AM on April 22, 2016
posted by hanov3r at 10:56 AM on April 22, 2016
I'm 30 now, and I've still never played DnD. I've really really wanted to since I moved out after high school, but I've never had both the friend group and the free time.
The starter set can be gotten at Amazon for under $15 and is a good deal.
Not only that, but the basic rules -- which, coincidentally, are the same human/elf/dwarf halfling and fighter/wizard/cleric/rogue combo as my blue Basic Set from 1978 or so -- are available as a free PDF download.
And your Friendly Local Game Store probably hosts in-store sessions via the Adventurer's League organizard play system.
Happily, my parents never minded my brother and I playing D&D or other RPGs; we all thought the whole "satanic panic" episode to be particularly silly media hogwash.
posted by Gelatin at 11:56 AM on April 22, 2016
The starter set can be gotten at Amazon for under $15 and is a good deal.
Not only that, but the basic rules -- which, coincidentally, are the same human/elf/dwarf halfling and fighter/wizard/cleric/rogue combo as my blue Basic Set from 1978 or so -- are available as a free PDF download.
And your Friendly Local Game Store probably hosts in-store sessions via the Adventurer's League organizard play system.
Happily, my parents never minded my brother and I playing D&D or other RPGs; we all thought the whole "satanic panic" episode to be particularly silly media hogwash.
posted by Gelatin at 11:56 AM on April 22, 2016
This was early/mid 90's in Canada; my parents were ecstatic that I was playing AD&D because I brought (nerdy) friends over (instead of hanging out with "scab" friends picking up a nicotine habit and learning to drink).
All the other parent's were ok with their kids playing D&D with one exception; I let my friend borrow my copy of the unfortunately named supplement book "The Tomb of Magic" which his mom found and completely flipped out and forbade him to ever interact with me ever again.
Shawn ended up marrying someone who looked exactly like his mom straight out of highschool. I wonder if his kids are allowed to play RPGs?
posted by porpoise at 3:00 PM on April 22, 2016
All the other parent's were ok with their kids playing D&D with one exception; I let my friend borrow my copy of the unfortunately named supplement book "The Tomb of Magic" which his mom found and completely flipped out and forbade him to ever interact with me ever again.
Shawn ended up marrying someone who looked exactly like his mom straight out of highschool. I wonder if his kids are allowed to play RPGs?
posted by porpoise at 3:00 PM on April 22, 2016
Shawn ended up marrying someone who looked exactly like his mom straight out of highschool. I wonder if his kids are allowed to play RPGs?
Sounds like he's in a role playing game of his own.
posted by Celsius1414 at 3:20 PM on April 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
Sounds like he's in a role playing game of his own.
posted by Celsius1414 at 3:20 PM on April 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
porpoise: "I let my friend borrow my copy of the unfortunately named supplement book "The Tomb of Magic" which his mom found and completely flipped out"
Are you thinking of Tomb of Horrors?
posted by Chrysostom at 6:46 PM on April 22, 2016
Are you thinking of Tomb of Horrors?
posted by Chrysostom at 6:46 PM on April 22, 2016
Could be the Tome Of Magic, which came out later in the 2E era.
posted by Mezentian at 6:53 PM on April 22, 2016
posted by Mezentian at 6:53 PM on April 22, 2016
When I told my mom I was playing D&D, she said she wasn't sure it was a good idea. She listened patiently while I laid out all the reasons D&D was safe and had nothing to do with Satan. She finally said she wssn't worried about my soul, she was worried I'd end up a cape wearing weirdo like Rusty who worked at the convenience store.
Her concerns were well founded.
posted by pattern juggler at 3:11 AM on April 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
Her concerns were well founded.
posted by pattern juggler at 3:11 AM on April 23, 2016 [7 favorites]
MetaFilter: You see the connection, don't you?
posted by ostranenie at 3:33 PM on April 23, 2016
posted by ostranenie at 3:33 PM on April 23, 2016
I mean, they're just games...
THAT'S WHAT SATAN WANTS YOU TO BELIEVE BECAUSE HE LIES, HE LIES, HE LIES, AND THAT'S HOW HE GETS INTO YOUR MIND WITH THESE BOOKS AND THEIR SPELLS AND THESE DICE AND TODAY YOU'RE PRETENDING YOU'RE A WIZARD AND TOMORROW YOU'RE KILLING BABIES IN A PENTAGON BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW MATTHEW IT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW
And I couldn't watch Monkey either.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 11:21 PM on April 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
THAT'S WHAT SATAN WANTS YOU TO BELIEVE BECAUSE HE LIES, HE LIES, HE LIES, AND THAT'S HOW HE GETS INTO YOUR MIND WITH THESE BOOKS AND THEIR SPELLS AND THESE DICE AND TODAY YOU'RE PRETENDING YOU'RE A WIZARD AND TOMORROW YOU'RE KILLING BABIES IN A PENTAGON BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW MATTHEW IT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW
And I couldn't watch Monkey either.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 11:21 PM on April 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
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"A century ago, H. G. Wells, the English titan of science fiction, invented a tabletop game called Little Wars with a friend, Jerome K. Jerome. Though a pacifist, Wells was intrigued by war games. He wrote a handbook for his creation, filled with clear rules of combat for opposing infantry, cavalry and artillery. "
HG Wells and Jerome K. Jerome invented a tabletop war game. Somebody slap me, I must be dreaming.
posted by bq at 2:30 PM on April 21, 2016 [60 favorites]