Short runway, terrain everywhere, rocks at either end and 40KT winds

May 12, 2016 3:57 AM

Extreme airliner landings at Wellington International Airport, New Zealand, 13 January 2012. Extreme airliner landings at Wellington International Airport, New Zealand, 2 January 2013. Extreme airliner landings and takeoffs at Wellington International Airport, New Zealand, 8 September 2012. Extreme airliner landings and takeoffs at Wellington International Airport, New Zealand, 3 July 2013. [All videos via the Airside TV YouTube channel.]

Located in a natural wind tunnel, Wellington is (by reputation at least) the windiest city on earth. The average wind speed at Wellington International Airport is 29 km/hr (for comparison, Chicago's is 18 km/hr). It sees gusts exceeding 75 km/hr 175 days every year. Today's forecast: Fine spells, [a] few spots evening rain. NW, gusts 140 km/h." Tomorrow's forecast: "AM rain, chance heavy, then fine. NW, gust[s] 140 km/h first."

Bonus terror:
Crosswind difficulties at Birmingham Airport, UK, Winter 2013/14 (previous thread). [Content warning: terrifying.]
Turbulent touchdowns at Birmingham Airport, UK, Winter 2015/16 [Content warning: perhaps even more terrifying.]
Fun at Funchal.
The world's scariest airport landings (Daily Telegraph).
Previously on Metafilter: 1, 2.

posted by Sonny Jim (51 comments total)

Arrrgh I fly into Wellington 4-5 times a year and I really didn't need to watch these.
posted by xiw at 4:14 AM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]

WHY? WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS TO ME AGAIN?


I just got over watching it the first time you posted in.
posted by Mezentian at 4:21 AM on May 12, 2016 [4 favorites]

OK, but what's a normal landing like at Wellington? I mean ... are extreme landings a 50-50 option? Or more like 1 in 20? Either way, these look terrible.
posted by ChuraChura at 4:34 AM on May 12, 2016

I'm going to Funchal next week. So ... thanks!
posted by chavenet at 5:00 AM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]

OK, but what's a normal landing like at Wellington? I mean ... are extreme landings a 50-50 option? Or more like 1 in 20? Either way, these look terrible.

Well, the meteorologist quoted in the Stuff article linked above reckons WLG gets gusts of gale force strength or above 175 days a year, so that has to indicate something. Any experienced passenger coming into Wellington will certainly expect ... something, but you develop a certain sang-froid after a while. As one of the contributors to the Airliners.net forums puts it, "WLG isn't terrifying, it is exhilarating and fun"!
posted by Sonny Jim at 5:00 AM on May 12, 2016 [3 favorites]

ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS EXCEPT NEW ZEALAND
posted by thelonius at 5:02 AM on May 12, 2016 [19 favorites]

"Cleared to approach, one-niner, approach vector one nope nope, repeat approach vector one nope"
posted by lalochezia at 5:03 AM on May 12, 2016 [8 favorites]

Tonight is insanely windy in Wellington, so much so that I thought my front window was going to be blown in there for a moment. To be fair though it's not always like this--this summer in particular was still every day pretty much.
posted by dydecker at 5:13 AM on May 12, 2016

>but you develop a certain sang-froid after a while

Have lived in Wellington for twenty years, still waiting for the sang-froid! At night time I particularly loath it. Coming in from the south is worst due to utter darkness until 30 seconds before touch down and knowing how short the strip is. Like I say, I loath it. Often wish to kiss the pilots once we're down!
posted by southof40 at 5:15 AM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]

Can confirm tonight is horribly windy was gusting to 140 kmh a short while ago.
posted by southof40 at 5:19 AM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]

I've gotta say, I've landed at Wellington a bunch of times without issue... but because of SonnyJim's video, I'm now coming Auckland via Palmerston North, via road.

So, I guess the NZ Tourism Commission wins.
And, I will finally see Taranaki National Park.
posted by Mezentian at 5:25 AM on May 12, 2016 [4 favorites]

Wellington's runway is 6,800 feet, which is fairly short for a major airport - for comparison, Auckland's main runway is 12,000 feet and Christchurch is almost 11,000 feet. JFK's main runway is 14,500 feet.
posted by backseatpilot at 5:26 AM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]

>... are extreme landings a 50-50 option

From what I recall of those videos they are one day a year stuff but less visibly difficult landings are still unpleasant. Having a rough trip down final approach in winter time is , perhaps, one day in four?
posted by southof40 at 5:28 AM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yay, Wellington landings! I always look forward to them. Heading back to NZ in August, right to Wellington. Good times.

(on more than one occasion I have been convinced we are going to land in Cook Strait, but that just makes me one of countless...)
posted by gaspode at 5:32 AM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]

On the bright side, if you survive the landing you get to enjoy the Lord of the Rings motif inside.

Years ago, the buggest, er, biggest aircraft that could land there was the the 747SP. Good times, flying in from Melbourne!
posted by Autumn Leaf at 5:36 AM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]

And here was I scared of the earthquakes. Wasted fear, wasted! It's the wind that's gonna get you!

(white capped waves, baaaaad sign. Very bad)
posted by kitten magic at 5:37 AM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]

But where are your Bruce Cathie stories??
posted by clawsoon at 5:41 AM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]

backseatpilot: "Wellington's runway is 6,800 feet, which is fairly short for a major airport - for comparison, Auckland's main runway is 12,000 feet and Christchurch is almost 11,000 feet. JFK's main runway is 14,500 feet."

Tibet's Qamdo Bamda Airport laughs in the face of your puny runways, having a single 18,045ft runway, largely owing to the airport's insane location, at 14,436ft above sea level.

For some perspective, the air pressure is so low at this altitude that, under US rules, the entire flight crew would be required to wear oxygen masks, and the emergency oxygen masks in the passenger compartment would automatically deploy on the ground.
posted by schmod at 5:51 AM on May 12, 2016 [7 favorites]

Wellington's runway is 6,800 feet, which is fairly short for a major airport - for comparison, Auckland's main runway is 12,000 feet and Christchurch is almost 11,000 feet.

Most international flights to New Zealand arrive at Auckland and Christchurch. Even though Wellington is the capital city, it's airport is more of a very large local one, serving inter-city flights.
posted by fairmettle at 6:08 AM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]

I have a vacation coming up, and was thinking evil thoughts merely about teeny-tiny seats and outrageous extra airline fees, not about you-gotta-be-kidding-me airport runways.

I think I'll take the train.
posted by easily confused at 6:11 AM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]

The only thing that makes me nervous about crossing the road flying is bored, not paying attention, tipsy drivers pilots. Does not look like that's an issue on the Wellington run!

First time I've seen a jet crabbing on takeoff!

Actually looks like a lot of fun (yes i'm crazy), totally on my bucket list.
posted by sammyo at 6:22 AM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]

Question for backseatpilot, or anyone else qualified to answer.

How much of this control is done by the pilots vs. the airplane itself? Do modern jets compensate for crosswinds and gusts automatically, or is that all seat-of-the-pants piloting, or a bit of both?

I know it's often said that jets "fly themselves" these days, and I know that's true while cruising but it's my understanding that isn't really true during the last couple hundred feet, except with the most modern aircraft.
posted by bondcliff at 6:26 AM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ah, what the videos don't show is that if your jet is going too fast and runs off the runway, it's back into the other side of the bay.
posted by sammyo at 6:30 AM on May 12, 2016

The worst landing I ever experienced (and I've flown a lot) was at Funchal. It was on a UK airline, one of the package companies like Airtours but I forget which one, about 13 years ago.

We circled for a while as the runway was closed when we arrived. Eventually the plane diverted to another island to get additional fuel. The pilot came out and said that most other planes were offloading but as there were no available hotel rooms everyone was being overnighted in the terminal - "little more than a shed" in his words. So we took off and tried again.

As we waited a plane would occasionally leave the stack and land. Whenever this happened the pilot would come on the PA and make pointed comments like "That was a Portuguese plane that just landed." and "Just to remind everyone that we have been informed the runway is closed". He sounded very disapproving, as if he really wanted to say "that was fucking mental, we're not doing that".

Eventually the our plane suddenly changed direction, the engines roared and the pilot came on again with the "Prepare of landing" stuff. Even the switch to an approach path felt dramatic, very little warning.

But the landing was something else. The plane was veering wildly. People were getting thrown about in seats. The wings were flexing and moving in a most interesting manner and the engines were constantly throttling up and down like they were in a fight with something. Most of the time the plane nose was pointing well away from the runway, clearly visible out the side windows, so I guess there was a bad cross wind.

I've never heard a plane strain so much. The whole fuselage was creeking and making popping noises. It was utterly terrifying.

Once we touched down there was whooping and cheering in the cabin. A very strange experience, people were hugging and crying.

I suspect that, with hindsight, the landing was well under all the operational limits for the plane and we weren't really in danger. A reminder of what a commercial airliner is capable of when it has to be. The pilot came on the PA, calmly gave his "Welcome to Funchal, the local time is.." speech and then apologised for the "hairy" landing - which got a good laugh.

I went back a year later and the landing was utterly mundane.
posted by samworm at 6:37 AM on May 12, 2016 [11 favorites]

Suddenly, "Six Months in a Leaky Boat" sounds like great advice.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 6:41 AM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]

My parents lived opposite the Wellington airport for years, in a house on a cliff with a big bay window. They kept binoculars by the window and always enjoyed watching the crazy landings on windy days.
posted by lollusc at 7:17 AM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]

Funchal runway is weird. It is practically a huge pier on concrete pillars and last time I was there, there was a circus and a small amusement park under the runway, between the pillars. Oh, humans.
posted by Free word order! at 7:25 AM on May 12, 2016

My parents lived opposite the Wellington airport for years, in a house on a cliff with a big bay window.

So, they lived in Wellington?
posted by Mezentian at 7:33 AM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]

How much of this control is done by the pilots vs. the airplane itself? Do modern jets compensate for crosswinds and gusts automatically, or is that all seat-of-the-pants piloting, or a bit of both?

In general, landings are done by hand below 500 ft or so, depending on the particular airline's operating procedures. The exception would be doing Cat II/III approaches where you never break out of the clouds - in that case, you have the (triply redundant) autopilot system doing the landing.

So, all of the landings in those videos are most likely done by hand. Autopilots coupled with modern nav systems are pretty good at compensating for steady winds, but generally not good at dealing with rapidly shifting winds.
posted by backseatpilot at 7:54 AM on May 12, 2016 [3 favorites]

Watching one of these, I shouted OH COME ON at gravity and all my dogs slunk out of my office.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:05 AM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]

Lets just check Wellington off of the list of places i'd like to fly to, shall we? thanks.
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:09 AM on May 12, 2016

Wellington's runway is 6,800 feet

To be fair, they don't have much room to make it longer.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:21 AM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]

Hey, they doubled the length at Funchal. Somewhere I have some photos of what it looked like before, we sailed up close because hooooly shiiiiit, I'm glad I didn't have to fly in.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 10:32 AM on May 12, 2016

Wellington is well into planning for a runway extension of 350m. Here is the website. There's also a little video to show what is involved. Wellington has a long history of reclaiming land so this would be par for the course. The runway will eventually get longer but at least we'll still have that wind right?
posted by Start with Dessert at 11:02 AM on May 12, 2016

Landed at Wellington Wednesday night. There was sufficient wind shear that the plane behind gave up and went back to Auckland.

Magnitude 5.1 earthquake here yesterday morning.

146 k winds last night.

Whatever. You live or you die.
posted by happyinmotion at 12:15 PM on May 12, 2016 [3 favorites]

OK, but what's a normal landing like at Wellington? I mean ... are extreme landings a 50-50 option? Or more like 1 in 20?

As another Wellingtonian chiming in, here for 8 years, and I think I've been on one horrible landing in that time. There have been plenty where it gets "bumpy" in the last 5 minutes or so, probably as common as a "smooth" landing. But only once where I felt that floating feeling like the OK GO video, and all the passengers are holding each others hands, because who wants to die alone?

Couple more tidbits: here's the Windy Wellington sign you see as you come in for the landing. At least there's a sense of humour about it.

And of course, the Umbrellas in Wellington tumblr. Documenting human hope, and crushing of said hope.
posted by Metro Gnome at 2:27 PM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]

A pilot friend of mine likes Wellington Airport because you have to pay attention flying in. 'Really makes you put down the ipad and focus, haha'
posted by Sebmojo at 4:56 PM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]

OK, but what's a normal landing like at Wellington? I mean ... are extreme landings a 50-50 option? Or more like 1 in 20? Either way, these look terrible.

I fly into/out of Wellington a lot, and maybe 1 in 10 is a gut-wrencher.

I've genuinely done a life-choice inventory while clutching the armrest in an inbound flight maybe... three times in my life?
posted by Sebmojo at 4:59 PM on May 12, 2016

I had heard the landing we were to experience in at the old airport in Quito, Ecuador was known to be a fast and exciting one. As best I recall it was. But only in a "you feel the bottom drop out from under you in a big way" not so much what I'm seeing in these videos.

My question is: Do pilots get flak (haha) from their peers or bosses for having to abort late, or really late, in a landing?
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:43 PM on May 12, 2016

Nope nope nope nope nope nope nope.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:08 PM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]

While I have carried this sense for a while, this video really cemented the idea of the modern airliner being this metal people sausage with floppy appendages stuck on in an unconvincing manner. Nice to see the Air Phuckthat livery.

Suggested extreme airport video seemed a cornucopia of bad ideas.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 1:24 AM on May 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

Lets just check Wellington off of the list of places i'd like to fly to, shall we? thanks.

But you MUST visit.


'Really makes you put down the ipad and focus, haha'

I'll take "Phrases that make you never want to fly again, Pat".

My question is: Do pilots get flak (haha) from their peers or bosses for having to abort late, or really late, in a landing?

I've worked for people, not industries, but I am going to say: Yes. At some point, they have to justifying this decisioning. #Bush2.02016
posted by Mezentian at 3:35 AM on May 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

Turbulent touchdowns at Birmingham Airport, UK, Winter 2015/16 [Content warning: perhaps even more terrifying.]

Doubleplus terrifying.
posted by Mister Bijou at 3:56 AM on May 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

Re: Birmingham, UK

Does anyone know what those twin-prop cargo planes are?
posted by Mister Bijou at 4:03 AM on May 13, 2016

Do pilots get flak (haha) from their peers or bosses for having to abort late, or really late, in a landing?

I think it depends, really. That sort of macho bullshit doesn't really fly (ha!) anymore, and my impression is that pilots are generally encouraged to consider safety first and foremost. However, there are always bad actors and I occasionally see reports of management putting pressure on pilots to act in unsafe ways. Pilots as a rule will fight those pressures with backing from their unions.

A go-around from a balked landing probably wouldn't raise a ton of eyebrows. Going around followed by a diversion to another airport might be a paperwork action, but shouldn't (as in, "likely illegal if it were to happen") result in a disciplinary action.
posted by backseatpilot at 6:46 AM on May 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

Does anyone know what those twin-prop cargo planes are?

Not sure which one you're referring to (they all look like passenger flights to me!), but either a Dash 8 or ATR 72. Dash 8 has the main gear in the engine nacelles on the wings; ATR 72 has gear bays in the belly.
posted by backseatpilot at 6:50 AM on May 13, 2016

From memory the Dash 8 is the workhorse of the NZ short haul flight.
posted by Mezentian at 5:20 PM on May 13, 2016

I've never seen that plane before, so I'm not sure you're right. The ATR72 looks more familiar.
posted by Sebmojo at 6:30 AM on May 16, 2016

Ansett New Zealand had 9 Dash 8s in their fleet back in the '90s (including the one that crashed outside Palmerston North in 1996). I'm not sure what happened to those aircraft when the firm went into liquidation in 2001.

In any case, I think Mister Bijou and backstreetpilot are talking about planes flying in and out of Birmingham, where Flybe-operated Dash 8s certainly do feature, rather than NZ.
posted by Sonny Jim at 6:55 AM on May 16, 2016

A little bit of research shows that Air Nelson operates no fewer than 23 Dash 8s on NZ short-haul routes, and is in fact the largest single operator of the Q300 version of the Dash 8 outside Canada ...
posted by Sonny Jim at 7:08 AM on May 16, 2016

I'd just like to say "IN YOUR FACE" plane nerds.
But that would be unfair. I've done the short-haul between Wellington and Nelson a lot, so that explains why I internalised it.
posted by Mezentian at 4:20 AM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]