Let us palaver a bit
May 19, 2016 5:48 PM Subscribe
Some of you may already be aware that the looooooong gestating miniseries based on Stephen King's "Dark Tower" books has finally begun filming (previously) with MeFi favorite Idris Elba in the lead role of Roland (Pictures have already been taken of him on set). As with any beloved piece of literature, fans have their reservations about what changes may occur from the original text. But as any Dark Tower fan will tell you, this is no ordinary book series. And it looks like Stephen King is hinting that the miniseries will follow in kind (Spoilers ahoy).
If that spoiler/theory/etc is correct I will be pretty happy. Seems to work nicely and as they say gives a bit of flexibility in a very in-character way for such a meta series.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:19 PM on May 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by thefoxgod at 6:19 PM on May 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
OK I am super super excited by that spoiler. (And I loved the ending to the series - this just makes it even better.)
posted by restless_nomad at 6:20 PM on May 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad at 6:20 PM on May 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'll confess I've never made it past the first Dark Tower novel--my aunt gave me a copy when I was a kid because I loved Clive Barker, but I just couldn't get into it--but I am all over Idris Elba in this role and I am all over watching white male horror fans lose their damn minds on social media.
posted by Kitteh at 6:21 PM on May 19, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 6:21 PM on May 19, 2016 [7 favorites]
These are my favourite books ever and I am simultaneously terrified and excited about this movie.
posted by torisaur at 6:22 PM on May 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by torisaur at 6:22 PM on May 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
Love these books-haaaated the self-referential ending. So my heart is holding to the hope that he'll dump all that shit and end this properly.
posted by purenitrous at 6:24 PM on May 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by purenitrous at 6:24 PM on May 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
I always pictured someone along the lines if Clint Eastwood when reading the books, but Idris Elba is so freakin' awesome that he'll probably completely replace my mental image when I see the movie.
Please be good, please be good, please be good.
posted by beowulf573 at 6:27 PM on May 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
Please be good, please be good, please be good.
posted by beowulf573 at 6:27 PM on May 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
Love these books-haaaated the self-referential ending. So my heart is holding to the hope that he'll dump all that shit and end this properly.
I hated the ending the first time I read it, and I still think it was weird of King to include himself in the books, but on reflection I think the ending was the only way it could end. Ka is a wheel etc.
Idris Elba and Matthew McConaughey are such great casting choices that I am hopeful that Hollywood won't ruin the story too much.
posted by torisaur at 6:28 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
I hated the ending the first time I read it, and I still think it was weird of King to include himself in the books, but on reflection I think the ending was the only way it could end. Ka is a wheel etc.
Idris Elba and Matthew McConaughey are such great casting choices that I am hopeful that Hollywood won't ruin the story too much.
posted by torisaur at 6:28 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, if he's going where I think he's going with that tweet, then the self-referential stuff will be key to the story. And, while we're on the subject, if the part hasn't been cast yet, and King is going to still include himself in the story (and ditch the part where Roland looks a bit like him), they could do worse than cast Josh Brolin as him.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:31 PM on May 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:31 PM on May 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yes, I think Elba is perfect casting. And I started the series with Drawing of the Three, so it totally works for me if that's how they start the movie. To clarify, I was fine with the spiral/circle of the ending-it was the part with King that jolted me the hell out of the book.
posted by purenitrous at 6:33 PM on May 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by purenitrous at 6:33 PM on May 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
My belief is that King shat out an ending to the Dark Tower series because after his near fatal accident he was terrified that he would leave his magnum opus unfinished especially since he had a massive digression of what was a pretty crisp series with Wizard and Glass.
So we got the hot mess of the final 3 books which nobody seems happy with, possibly even King himself.
Actually I have been halfway expecting him to do a new set of books to replace the current "ending" since it's infuriatingly bad.
posted by vuron at 6:42 PM on May 19, 2016 [10 favorites]
So we got the hot mess of the final 3 books which nobody seems happy with, possibly even King himself.
Actually I have been halfway expecting him to do a new set of books to replace the current "ending" since it's infuriatingly bad.
posted by vuron at 6:42 PM on May 19, 2016 [10 favorites]
The only problem I have with Elba is how they will handle Odetta/Detta if the gunslinger is a black male since Detta's hatred of Roland is largely driven by him being a white devil.
posted by vuron at 6:45 PM on May 19, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by vuron at 6:45 PM on May 19, 2016 [11 favorites]
That being said I am interested in seeing how good writers and actors can work around that plot and character element. Maybe have her focus more of her hate on Eddie which will have some interesting narrative implications.
posted by vuron at 6:54 PM on May 19, 2016
posted by vuron at 6:54 PM on May 19, 2016
I've been slowly reading this series over the course of the past 15+ years. I have to be in a very particular mood to read the Dark Tower series and I just happen to be in one of those moods (about ever two years, I'll get into a mood and read one of his books, slowly rationing them out as I approach the ending). I'm currently in the middle of The Wolves of Calla and like all the other Dark Tower books, I'm simultaneously entertained as well as slightly annoyed. The world and the characters that King has created are characters I know very well and love dearly, but the story itself is often frustrating. I'm looking forward to seeing how well this translates onto a screen.
posted by Fizz at 6:54 PM on May 19, 2016
posted by Fizz at 6:54 PM on May 19, 2016
I think it would be easy enough to transfer Odetta/Detta's distrust to him being male instead of him being white. Or maybe she will be white and hate him for being black. As far as I know, she hasn't been cast yet.
posted by torisaur at 6:54 PM on May 19, 2016
posted by torisaur at 6:54 PM on May 19, 2016
You can easily tell the parts of the last three novels where King had had great ideas in the 80s and where he had had ohshitgonnadieitis.
posted by infinitewindow at 6:55 PM on May 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 6:55 PM on May 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also the ending is damn near perfect, it's the self-referential stuff that's bullshit.
posted by infinitewindow at 6:56 PM on May 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 6:56 PM on May 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
Interesting. So The Dark Tower series is very similar to the Dark Seed videogame, where if you miss one little thing at the beginning it is unwinnable.
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:45 PM on May 19, 2016
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:45 PM on May 19, 2016
I'm not sure why I finished book 1, but man was book 2 worth it.
Actually, I listened to it, and Frank Muller ("...who hears the voices in my head"- Stephen King) was superb. (at least for the first 4 or 5- miss him)
Did it say how it's going to be distributed? I missed if it was. Hope it's going to be somewhere I can watch it.
posted by MtDewd at 7:48 PM on May 19, 2016
Actually, I listened to it, and Frank Muller ("...who hears the voices in my head"- Stephen King) was superb. (at least for the first 4 or 5- miss him)
Did it say how it's going to be distributed? I missed if it was. Hope it's going to be somewhere I can watch it.
posted by MtDewd at 7:48 PM on May 19, 2016
This is going to be a series of feature films, as I understand it. So the normal box office followed by bluray and then whatever streaming sites eventually license it.
posted by thefoxgod at 7:58 PM on May 19, 2016
posted by thefoxgod at 7:58 PM on May 19, 2016
white male horror fans
I don't think I'd call The Dark Tower "horror", except maybe in some fairly metaphysical ways. "Game of Thrones" is arguably more horrific than Dark Tower.
had a massive digression of what was a pretty crisp series with Wizard and Glass
The digression in Wizard and Glass was for me such a high point of the series that I stopped reading after that -- so I suppose I should have qualified my statement about "horror" with that detail.
posted by Slothrup at 7:59 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't think I'd call The Dark Tower "horror", except maybe in some fairly metaphysical ways. "Game of Thrones" is arguably more horrific than Dark Tower.
had a massive digression of what was a pretty crisp series with Wizard and Glass
The digression in Wizard and Glass was for me such a high point of the series that I stopped reading after that -- so I suppose I should have qualified my statement about "horror" with that detail.
posted by Slothrup at 7:59 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh my gosh, I was NOT aware, NOT, but now I am, and it is a source of delight, nay, ecstasy! And that was before I even saw the stupendous words Idris Elba. Idris fucking Elba!
Moreover, the "spoiler ahoy" is FANTASTIC! I hope it turns out to be the case. Now excuse me while I squeal my brains out in fangirl joy for several hours instead of falling asleep as I had planned.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:07 PM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Moreover, the "spoiler ahoy" is FANTASTIC! I hope it turns out to be the case. Now excuse me while I squeal my brains out in fangirl joy for several hours instead of falling asleep as I had planned.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:07 PM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, that spoiler tweet actually has me far more excited for this film than I was otherwise. Honestly, Idris Elba's casting was the thing that made me interested in the film at all, given my dislike of the last two books and the ending. But if that spoiler tweet is right, then this film might make that ending more palatable.
posted by crossoverman at 8:13 PM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by crossoverman at 8:13 PM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
MY BRIDE
posted by poffin boffin at 8:15 PM on May 19, 2016
posted by poffin boffin at 8:15 PM on May 19, 2016
So we got the hot mess of the final 3 books which nobody seems happy with
YMMV. I loved Wolves of the Calla, in part because the participation of the citizens of Calla Bryn Sturgis was a nice contrast to the deep corruption of Mejis in Wizard and Glass (which was pretty well done, IMO, but also a massive downer; you get the feeling that Mejis will end up much like Tull, eventually), and in part because I thought that Donald Callahan's post-'Salem's Lot story was very well done, and the big fight worked very well. Song of Susannah was a bit of a letdown, in part because it was constructed to set up the last book more than stand on its own and in part because the whole thing with Susannah-Mia in New York kind of dragged, but the last book was great, even if its big fight scene was early in the book.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:18 PM on May 19, 2016 [9 favorites]
I'll confess I've never made it past the first Dark Tower novel--my aunt gave me a copy when I was a kid because I loved Clive Barker, but I just couldn't get into it--but I am all over Idris Elba in this role and I am all over watching white male horror fans lose their damn minds on social media.
The second and third books are the best.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:21 PM on May 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
The second and third books are the best.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:21 PM on May 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
The big question is, of course, who's going to play Oy?
(And since we're declaring our love/hates: I liked the ending, liked Wizard and Glass, liked the first novel, thought Blaine the Mono needed to be derailed much sooner, and felt the last three novels -- but especially the last two -- desperately needed a ruthless editor 1,000 times more than most King novels do, which is saying a lot. I'm just super-thrilled to see them create this world onscreen and hope like hell it doesn't suck eggs. So many ways to do it wrong and relatively few to get it right.)
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:21 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
(And since we're declaring our love/hates: I liked the ending, liked Wizard and Glass, liked the first novel, thought Blaine the Mono needed to be derailed much sooner, and felt the last three novels -- but especially the last two -- desperately needed a ruthless editor 1,000 times more than most King novels do, which is saying a lot. I'm just super-thrilled to see them create this world onscreen and hope like hell it doesn't suck eggs. So many ways to do it wrong and relatively few to get it right.)
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:21 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, whenever my dogs are uncooperative little shits, I call them lobstrosities.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:24 PM on May 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:24 PM on May 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
This might be the only series of books where I physically cringed and went "Awww..." every time I realized it was going to get even more self-indulgent
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:25 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:25 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh god, now I'm going to have to sit here and chant "Rutina Wesley, Rutina Wesley, Rutina Wesley" compulsively until the universe listens.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:32 PM on May 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:32 PM on May 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
I loved 1-3, I feel like 4 is a brilliant novel that just happens to have some characters from 1-3 and books 5-7 are incredibly rushed especially since he's not only trying to tie up the Dark Tower but also the Talisman series and honestly pretty much the underlying Truth to his entire cosmos from the Stand to Salem's Lot to It, etc.
Basically it was like King was basically trying to do with books 5-7 what August Derleth tried to do as an explanation for Lovecraft's universe, with much the same result.
It was a massively ambitious project because he's not just trying to finish Roland's story he's trying to make sense of his entire universe of published stories and to a certain degree he manages to succeed. However he basically slammed this ending onto a story that had been percolating very slowly over the entire course of his professional career. A story that he himself has said is one that only comes to him in fits and starts and he basically rushed it out because you know mortality.
Yes it's a model that Robert Jordan should've followed and GRRM seems likely to ignore but it just seems like a messy ending to what was previously some of his very best writing and some of his most memorable characters. Combined with the very meta nature of his narrative it's really no surprise that it totally went off the rails although I do admit there are large parts of books 5-7 that I really enjoy.
I just kinda feel like if he was just now publishing book 6 (or maybe 7) that we'd have a much better end product than what he rushed out and honestly we might not have been forced to deal with his really mediocre post book 7 novels and novellas.
posted by vuron at 8:33 PM on May 19, 2016
Basically it was like King was basically trying to do with books 5-7 what August Derleth tried to do as an explanation for Lovecraft's universe, with much the same result.
It was a massively ambitious project because he's not just trying to finish Roland's story he's trying to make sense of his entire universe of published stories and to a certain degree he manages to succeed. However he basically slammed this ending onto a story that had been percolating very slowly over the entire course of his professional career. A story that he himself has said is one that only comes to him in fits and starts and he basically rushed it out because you know mortality.
Yes it's a model that Robert Jordan should've followed and GRRM seems likely to ignore but it just seems like a messy ending to what was previously some of his very best writing and some of his most memorable characters. Combined with the very meta nature of his narrative it's really no surprise that it totally went off the rails although I do admit there are large parts of books 5-7 that I really enjoy.
I just kinda feel like if he was just now publishing book 6 (or maybe 7) that we'd have a much better end product than what he rushed out and honestly we might not have been forced to deal with his really mediocre post book 7 novels and novellas.
posted by vuron at 8:33 PM on May 19, 2016
impossible for this to be anything but a travesty.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 8:46 PM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 8:46 PM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
honestly I kind of think that the cleanest option would be to cut the O/Detta stuff entirely, because there's some...very cringey moments w/r/t race and mental illness. Not that it would be impossible to thread that needle, but I wouldn't want to be the person who had to figure out how. Susannah is still a plenty interesting character without that arc.
posted by Krom Tatman at 9:07 PM on May 19, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by Krom Tatman at 9:07 PM on May 19, 2016 [15 favorites]
O/Detta is admittedly a massive potential gotcha in any treatment of the source material because like you say it's cringey on the written page (albeit fairly understandable given the US environment during the time period in which she hails from and the period in which she was originally introduced) neither of which are likely to be likely to save her from the critics in a modern adaptation.
However I think that arc is pretty important to the actual character progression of Susannah and I would hate to see it excised simply because it's likely to offend a shit-ton of potential viewers. Sometimes I think it's important to stay true to the source material even if it results in a potentially angry audience.
posted by vuron at 9:36 PM on May 19, 2016
However I think that arc is pretty important to the actual character progression of Susannah and I would hate to see it excised simply because it's likely to offend a shit-ton of potential viewers. Sometimes I think it's important to stay true to the source material even if it results in a potentially angry audience.
posted by vuron at 9:36 PM on May 19, 2016
I mean it's ultimately an eye-of-the-beholder thing, but I think it's not just about whether people will be angry or offended or critical but with whether the way the story is told is one that can be improved on. Like, there is definitely an interesting character hook in how to deal with anger and compartmentalization, especially in the context of what "anger" means to a disabled black female civil rights activist, but a Sybil-style personality split where one of the personalities is a borderline-offensive racial stereotype has a whole shitton of baggage getting in the way of that exploration. It's not that people taking offense is something inherently to be avoided, but if you have a bunch of offensive stuff in there, that's going to distract from whatever other point you're trying to make, inevitably.
posted by Krom Tatman at 9:47 PM on May 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Krom Tatman at 9:47 PM on May 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
Who should voice Blaine?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:48 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:48 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
James Spader definitely needs to voice Blaine. After Ultron he definitely should be a lock for any malevolent yet witty AI monstrosity.
posted by vuron at 9:57 PM on May 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by vuron at 9:57 PM on May 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
I personally really liked the last three books. The problem is basically that the first and second halves are two different series; the first half is a rip-roaring adventure story, and the second half is a story about stories. The Wind in the Keyhole did a really good job bridging the two.
When thought of in those terms, I think the ending is perfect. What really clicked it in to place for me was the realization that if the Dark Tower books are a story about stories, "ka" means "plot", and IMO the ending kind of flows naturally from there.
posted by Itaxpica at 10:06 PM on May 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
When thought of in those terms, I think the ending is perfect. What really clicked it in to place for me was the realization that if the Dark Tower books are a story about stories, "ka" means "plot", and IMO the ending kind of flows naturally from there.
posted by Itaxpica at 10:06 PM on May 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
(Also James Spader is the perfect voice for Blaine, god damn)
posted by Itaxpica at 10:07 PM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Itaxpica at 10:07 PM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Garth Merenghi's Dark Tower
posted by benzenedream at 11:07 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by benzenedream at 11:07 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
The big question is, of course, who's going to play Oy?
Who else?
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:16 PM on May 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'm a fairly dedicated fan of King's writing, but I am constantly mystified by everyone's affection for TDT series. The first three books were quite strong but the quality steadily declined until that final book, which is a strong contender for an "Objectively Terrible" award. I get that he needed to work out his issues with his own mortality, but infusing the last book of the series with his neuroses in such a literal way was incredibly disconnected from the mythos he'd previously constructed. (The fact that he continuously revisited this horrific event in his life for many years afterward in just about every type of writing possible made me wonder if his career would survive that dark obsession.)
But, yeah. I guess. I like Idris Elba. Still, the number of truly excellent King adaptations is vanishingly small, mostly confined to Reiner, Goldman, and Darabont. I'm not optimistic.
posted by xyzzy at 1:42 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
But, yeah. I guess. I like Idris Elba. Still, the number of truly excellent King adaptations is vanishingly small, mostly confined to Reiner, Goldman, and Darabont. I'm not optimistic.
posted by xyzzy at 1:42 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm suuuper excited by that spoiler tweet, if only because it gives the movie makers (and King, I suppose) licence to tighten up some of the stuff that will grate on modern audiences. I hope this means the O/Detta plotline will be addressed, as others have mentioned in this thread. I feel like the King of 2016 has different politics to the King of 1987.
Personally I hope they keep that Shardik fight in because I definitely want to see Idris Elba fight a giant robot bear.
posted by fight or flight at 2:23 AM on May 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
Personally I hope they keep that Shardik fight in because I definitely want to see Idris Elba fight a giant robot bear.
posted by fight or flight at 2:23 AM on May 20, 2016 [6 favorites]
The big question is, of course, who's going to play Oy?
Andy Serkis, obviously.
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 3:16 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Andy Serkis, obviously.
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 3:16 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Who should voice Blaine?
Benedict Cumberbatch.
posted by Lucinda at 4:37 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Benedict Cumberbatch.
posted by Lucinda at 4:37 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
The digression in Wizard and Glass was for me such a high point of the series that I stopped reading after that -- so I suppose I should have qualified my statement about "horror" with that detail.
You got out at the right time.
Idris Elba, while a fantastic actor, is wrong for the past. Even if we ignore the fact he's not Clint "Chair!" Eastwood, the photos so far have him too clean and without long hair.
It might work out. Because King movies so so often.
But, you know, the Tweeted spoiler? Works.
posted by Mezentian at 4:59 AM on May 20, 2016
You got out at the right time.
Idris Elba, while a fantastic actor, is wrong for the past. Even if we ignore the fact he's not Clint "Chair!" Eastwood, the photos so far have him too clean and without long hair.
It might work out. Because King movies so so often.
But, you know, the Tweeted spoiler? Works.
posted by Mezentian at 4:59 AM on May 20, 2016
James Spader definitely needs to voice Blaine.
It is the name of a major appliance.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:24 AM on May 20, 2016
It is the name of a major appliance.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:24 AM on May 20, 2016
The first three books were quite strong but the quality steadily declined until that final book
I don't know if I'd say the quality declined but the tone and writing style, along with pretty much every book of his written after certain milestones in his life (I'm looking at you getting-off-drugs and being-hit-by-a-vehicle), certainly shifted dramatically. For the most part I do prefer the old and dark and scary as fuck* SK to, what I think of anyway, as the new and more touchy feely and less scary** SK as well, but the firming up of the DT plot in the later books (don't get me started on the rewrite of Book I) wasn't all that bad for me. Different strokes for different folks of course, but he's certainly done worse than the final books of the DT series.
That said, Song of Susannah is the weakest for me but the battle scenes, hell even the plot and dialog for that matter, in Wizard and Glass and Wolves of the Calla are amazing and worth any reader's time.
And the final book, man the feels. The feels are strong with that one. And it has it's oddities, doubly so if you've never read Insomnia, but I really don't feel like they detract from the fun of the ride.
*- IT, The Stand, Carrie, The Shining, even The Bachman Books, which were all super-duper dark, for chrissake, etc...
** - The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon, Duma Key, Under the Dome, 11/22/63, and more things that are basically thrillers more than horror that I haven't even bothered to read...
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:27 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
I don't know if I'd say the quality declined but the tone and writing style, along with pretty much every book of his written after certain milestones in his life (I'm looking at you getting-off-drugs and being-hit-by-a-vehicle), certainly shifted dramatically. For the most part I do prefer the old and dark and scary as fuck* SK to, what I think of anyway, as the new and more touchy feely and less scary** SK as well, but the firming up of the DT plot in the later books (don't get me started on the rewrite of Book I) wasn't all that bad for me. Different strokes for different folks of course, but he's certainly done worse than the final books of the DT series.
That said, Song of Susannah is the weakest for me but the battle scenes, hell even the plot and dialog for that matter, in Wizard and Glass and Wolves of the Calla are amazing and worth any reader's time.
And the final book, man the feels. The feels are strong with that one. And it has it's oddities, doubly so if you've never read Insomnia, but I really don't feel like they detract from the fun of the ride.
*- IT, The Stand, Carrie, The Shining, even The Bachman Books, which were all super-duper dark, for chrissake, etc...
** - The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon, Duma Key, Under the Dome, 11/22/63, and more things that are basically thrillers more than horror that I haven't even bothered to read...
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:27 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
the photos so far have him too clean
You do get that this has absolutely zip to do with Elba, yeah? Decisions about cleanliness of costume are in the hands of everyone but the actors.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:27 AM on May 20, 2016
You do get that this has absolutely zip to do with Elba, yeah? Decisions about cleanliness of costume are in the hands of everyone but the actors.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:27 AM on May 20, 2016
This is going to be a series of feature films, as I understand it.
Yeah, that's what I thought, but it seems like right now they are only talking about one movie. I still think a series of movies focused on Roland and his Ka-Tet interspersed with seasons of a Netflix/Hulu miniseries focused on flashbacks to Roland's past would be perfect.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:28 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, that's what I thought, but it seems like right now they are only talking about one movie. I still think a series of movies focused on Roland and his Ka-Tet interspersed with seasons of a Netflix/Hulu miniseries focused on flashbacks to Roland's past would be perfect.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:28 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
the photos so far have him too clean
Yea, I noticed this as well and, while I'm trying not to get too hung up on a few on-set iPhone shots, didn't love that either. I just hope it's not going to turn into something more like modern sci-fi and less like gritty wtf horror.
You do get that this has absolutely zip to do with Elba, yeah
Totally agree. I mean, some people are, even if only somewhat, upset about him being caught with his cell phone in his hand while in costume. Sheesh.
This is going to be a series of feature films, as I understand it.
It's been in development hell so long that I've lost track and quit trying to find it. At one point it was absolutely a 3 movie, with 2 [mini-]series of filler in between 1-2/2-3, deal. I think that was when Sony had the option? I forget. I'm hoping something close to that works out because A) there's so much material and B) a movie can't really do the convoluted plot justice in places.
Then again, now that we have the tweeted image from King, fucking all bets are off. That would go really far to explain some of the casting decisions/leaks that have been coming out. I had basically lost hope due to the fact that they were casting/announcing characters that were, at best, minor players in the novels due to, what I figured anyway, was a serious dumbing down/mob appeal play of the plot. Now his tweet explains that somewhat better but I'm still pretty damn nervous.
Regarding the Detta/Odetta stuff, yea I never considered removing it completely, doubly so for the um, later part where she, yea, does that thing and buys Roland (well Eddie really) time to, you know, yea, spoliery spoilerness avoided... Anyway, outside of a B movie from the 70s or an indie flick I didn't know how they were going to do that part any justice either or get it past anything approaching a network/studio exec.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:37 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yea, I noticed this as well and, while I'm trying not to get too hung up on a few on-set iPhone shots, didn't love that either. I just hope it's not going to turn into something more like modern sci-fi and less like gritty wtf horror.
You do get that this has absolutely zip to do with Elba, yeah
Totally agree. I mean, some people are, even if only somewhat, upset about him being caught with his cell phone in his hand while in costume. Sheesh.
This is going to be a series of feature films, as I understand it.
It's been in development hell so long that I've lost track and quit trying to find it. At one point it was absolutely a 3 movie, with 2 [mini-]series of filler in between 1-2/2-3, deal. I think that was when Sony had the option? I forget. I'm hoping something close to that works out because A) there's so much material and B) a movie can't really do the convoluted plot justice in places.
Then again, now that we have the tweeted image from King, fucking all bets are off. That would go really far to explain some of the casting decisions/leaks that have been coming out. I had basically lost hope due to the fact that they were casting/announcing characters that were, at best, minor players in the novels due to, what I figured anyway, was a serious dumbing down/mob appeal play of the plot. Now his tweet explains that somewhat better but I'm still pretty damn nervous.
Regarding the Detta/Odetta stuff, yea I never considered removing it completely, doubly so for the um, later part where she, yea, does that thing and buys Roland (well Eddie really) time to, you know, yea, spoliery spoilerness avoided... Anyway, outside of a B movie from the 70s or an indie flick I didn't know how they were going to do that part any justice either or get it past anything approaching a network/studio exec.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:37 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh, and this is where I mention the comic series. They're really good and worth your time. If you hadn't heard of them then you should get your hands on them somehow. My local library had The Gunslinger Reborn in hardback even. Seriously, they're not at all bad. /rant
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:40 AM on May 20, 2016
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:40 AM on May 20, 2016
The big question is, of course, who's going to play Oy?
Who else?
You are bad and you should feel bad.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:42 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Who else?
You are bad and you should feel bad.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:42 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Rob Schneider is ...... Oy!
posted by mannequito at 6:02 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by mannequito at 6:02 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Who should voice Blaine?
Benedict Cumberbatch.
Won't that be confusing after he voices The Lobstrosities?
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:06 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Benedict Cumberbatch.
Won't that be confusing after he voices The Lobstrosities?
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:06 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Honestly King showing up in the story was one of the less self-indulgent things that happened in this series.
posted by beerperson at 6:12 AM on May 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 6:12 AM on May 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
The Dark Tower is like the Beatles catalogue. There's some poppy fluff, some weird shit and some masterpiece work. People are either raging fans, indifferent to it, or wondering what the goddamn fuss is about.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 6:44 AM on May 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 6:44 AM on May 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
Not the ending, tis' the telling, the telling is the thing.
posted by Splunge at 6:59 AM on May 20, 2016
posted by Splunge at 6:59 AM on May 20, 2016
At his best King is an awesome storyteller with a gift for characters, at his worst he's incredibly self-indulgent and needing a brutal editor, which kinda reminds me of some other authors with high profile media projects.
My general feeling is that at it's best the Dark Tower series represents some of King's very best work but at the other end of the spectrum it includes an incredible amount of self-indulgent wistfulness.
If he had used his brush with mortality to explore metafiction in a work like Danse Macabre rather than the Dark Tower series I think that would've been awesome but I don't really feel like On Writing really was ever going to be that book and he seems like he's broken away from the extreme navel gazing of the early 2000s and so I'm not sure he's ever going to really explore the author as an active participant in his own narrative in any way other than the really weird and out of place nature that he did it with the Dark Tower.
But I can also accept that at it's heart the Dark Tower is really just a prism in which you see the wellspring of all his other storytelling so perhaps it is the best place for exploring his place in that mythology. I just don't know I'm very very conflicted about the later works.
posted by vuron at 7:06 AM on May 20, 2016
My general feeling is that at it's best the Dark Tower series represents some of King's very best work but at the other end of the spectrum it includes an incredible amount of self-indulgent wistfulness.
If he had used his brush with mortality to explore metafiction in a work like Danse Macabre rather than the Dark Tower series I think that would've been awesome but I don't really feel like On Writing really was ever going to be that book and he seems like he's broken away from the extreme navel gazing of the early 2000s and so I'm not sure he's ever going to really explore the author as an active participant in his own narrative in any way other than the really weird and out of place nature that he did it with the Dark Tower.
But I can also accept that at it's heart the Dark Tower is really just a prism in which you see the wellspring of all his other storytelling so perhaps it is the best place for exploring his place in that mythology. I just don't know I'm very very conflicted about the later works.
posted by vuron at 7:06 AM on May 20, 2016
I was one of those constant readers, who read everything King wrote the day it came out. Not anymore, mostly due to my life becoming more busy as I got older and only partly due to King's writing. I do agree at the series peaked with Wizard and Glass with some bright spots in the remaining books.
He's written some incredible characters and I really need to catch up.
And no matter what anyone tells you, I did not cry at Oy's last scene. Whoever told you that is lying.
posted by beowulf573 at 7:36 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
He's written some incredible characters and I really need to catch up.
And no matter what anyone tells you, I did not cry at Oy's last scene. Whoever told you that is lying.
posted by beowulf573 at 7:36 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's been in development hell so long that I've lost track and quit trying to find it. At one point it was absolutely a 3 movie, with 2 [mini-]series of filler in between 1-2/2-3, deal. I think that was when Sony had the option? I forget.The movies + tv series plan was during the Ron Howard + Javier Bardem + Universal phase of development hell.
They're just doing movies now. Probably. They haven't said much about their plans beyond this first movie yet.
posted by cnelson at 7:39 AM on May 20, 2016
First off, I'm very intrigued by the spoiler tweet, and it seems to me to be a really good way to do this movie/mini-series/whatever this might wind up being.
Secondly, we did get a Book Club going for a Dark Tower Re-read, and we have threads for the first two books. A lot of us seemed to peter out somewhere in the Drawing of the Three, but I finally finished it this past weekend, so I might just see if I can revive that discussion and maybe get one going for The Wastelands.
posted by nubs at 8:42 AM on May 20, 2016
Secondly, we did get a Book Club going for a Dark Tower Re-read, and we have threads for the first two books. A lot of us seemed to peter out somewhere in the Drawing of the Three, but I finally finished it this past weekend, so I might just see if I can revive that discussion and maybe get one going for The Wastelands.
posted by nubs at 8:42 AM on May 20, 2016
These are some of the only King books I haven't read, and everyone I know hated the ending so I'd been avoiding them. This thread has changed my mind though, so I'd better get to it! Is there a preferred reading order or is order of publication fine?
posted by skycrashesdown at 8:46 AM on May 20, 2016
posted by skycrashesdown at 8:46 AM on May 20, 2016
Yeah, that's the preferred order. You can put The Wind Through the Keyhole between books 4 and 5, but I don't think you gain anything doing it that way, it's just where it fits chronologically.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:49 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Rock Steady at 8:49 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
everyone I know hated the ending so I'd been avoiding them
I'm finding this so interesting, because for all the flaws of the books, the ending was - from my perspective - the only ending that made sense.
posted by nubs at 9:19 AM on May 20, 2016 [10 favorites]
I'm finding this so interesting, because for all the flaws of the books, the ending was - from my perspective - the only ending that made sense.
posted by nubs at 9:19 AM on May 20, 2016 [10 favorites]
I'm finding this so interesting, because for all the flaws of the books, the ending was - from my perspective - the only ending that made sense.
Ditto. I had such a huge damn smile on my face when I read that ending for the first time.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 9:37 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ditto. I had such a huge damn smile on my face when I read that ending for the first time.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 9:37 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
I guess that really should read "everyone I know who read them hated the ending" but this thread has made me realize that in retrospect these are people whose aesthetic taste I no longer trust anyway, and I was just sort of holding my position of not reading them out of habit. But now I'm looking forward to all these "new" King books I get to read!
posted by skycrashesdown at 9:56 AM on May 20, 2016
posted by skycrashesdown at 9:56 AM on May 20, 2016
my imagination is far more intense and immediate than any film can even come close to. for that reason, starting way back with Firestarter, I have been left with only scorn for movie/tv adaptations of SK. there hasn't been a single one worth the time. perhaps this is to do with my lifelong reading habit, or my unenthusiastic movie-going career, but i've devoured this entire series 3-4 times in the last few years i love it so much, and i'm damned if i'll ruin that by seeing yet another lame, contrived adaptation.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:41 AM on May 20, 2016
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:41 AM on May 20, 2016
cool dude
posted by Krom Tatman at 11:23 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Krom Tatman at 11:23 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
I quit reading King because of the Dark Tower series. Up until that point, I had read everything the guy had written. All that stopped when in the middle of an action scene, and evil device (no spoilers) tells the characters that they are going to play a game, if the characters lose, the device is going to kill everyone, including itself. Then the book ends, it is quite the cliffhanger.
Then there is just silence. No followup. For six. fucking. years.* King writes lots of other stories in the mean time, but this one, the one I'm most interested in has frozen at a point where we, the reader, can't even just think "and then they walked off into the sunset, some questions unanswered but this is where their story ends" because it's in the middle of an event.
I was on boycott until he got his shit together. But by the time the next book came out, I was more or less done with his work and on to new and exciting things.
Eventually, sometime in around 2010 I finally got over it and finished up the series, but it took me almost fifteen years to get there.
I'm glad I did, because the story was eventually quite a good one, even if I thought that there was quite a bit in the middle that was just gratuitous and often pointless (as FelliniBlank said, in need of a ruthless editor)
I've been middling about the idea of moving it to a different medium because I just never thought that certain parts would transfer well to film or TV, but I've since seen shows that were able to capture stories that I wouldn't have thought possible, so I'm more willing to give it a shot.
I always thought that Roland would need to be played by the epitome of a spaghetti-western hard ass. A young Clint is obviously who he is modeled on, so I sort of thought they might be able to use someone like Timothy Olyphant who has done that kind of role extremely well and has the acting chops to pull it off. He's obvious, but since Roland is an archetype early on, a typecast character actor would be perfect. Get weird with Eddie and Susannah but Roland would have to be the Man with No Name.
Then I saw Idris attached and it took me all of about a minute for my brain to shift gears and reset the idea I had stuck in my head for all these years and "Click"; Elba snapped right into place. He'd inspired casting, but I also kind of wondered how they'd deal with the White Devil aspect. Maybe they'll cut it and use a different conceit to get us there. I did notice that when I was skimming the cast, most of the top billed women are white, so it's possible they'll go the white power route.
Regardless, I'm really happy about Elba.
And the tweet is perfect. Perfect. It looks like a spoiler, but really it only is if you know the whole story, for anyone else it is just a bit poetical licenses in use.
*: this was before GRRM introduced me to the idea of waiting that long between practically every friggin' book.
posted by quin at 11:31 AM on May 20, 2016
Then there is just silence. No followup. For six. fucking. years.* King writes lots of other stories in the mean time, but this one, the one I'm most interested in has frozen at a point where we, the reader, can't even just think "and then they walked off into the sunset, some questions unanswered but this is where their story ends" because it's in the middle of an event.
I was on boycott until he got his shit together. But by the time the next book came out, I was more or less done with his work and on to new and exciting things.
Eventually, sometime in around 2010 I finally got over it and finished up the series, but it took me almost fifteen years to get there.
I'm glad I did, because the story was eventually quite a good one, even if I thought that there was quite a bit in the middle that was just gratuitous and often pointless (as FelliniBlank said, in need of a ruthless editor)
I've been middling about the idea of moving it to a different medium because I just never thought that certain parts would transfer well to film or TV, but I've since seen shows that were able to capture stories that I wouldn't have thought possible, so I'm more willing to give it a shot.
I always thought that Roland would need to be played by the epitome of a spaghetti-western hard ass. A young Clint is obviously who he is modeled on, so I sort of thought they might be able to use someone like Timothy Olyphant who has done that kind of role extremely well and has the acting chops to pull it off. He's obvious, but since Roland is an archetype early on, a typecast character actor would be perfect. Get weird with Eddie and Susannah but Roland would have to be the Man with No Name.
Then I saw Idris attached and it took me all of about a minute for my brain to shift gears and reset the idea I had stuck in my head for all these years and "Click"; Elba snapped right into place. He'd inspired casting, but I also kind of wondered how they'd deal with the White Devil aspect. Maybe they'll cut it and use a different conceit to get us there. I did notice that when I was skimming the cast, most of the top billed women are white, so it's possible they'll go the white power route.
Regardless, I'm really happy about Elba.
And the tweet is perfect. Perfect. It looks like a spoiler, but really it only is if you know the whole story, for anyone else it is just a bit poetical licenses in use.
*: this was before GRRM introduced me to the idea of waiting that long between practically every friggin' book.
posted by quin at 11:31 AM on May 20, 2016
I had such a huge damn smile on my face when I read that ending for the first time.
Yeah, me too. If by huge damn smile you actually mean a gasp of horror and sadness.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:09 PM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, me too. If by huge damn smile you actually mean a gasp of horror and sadness.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:09 PM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Sorry, Roland. Ka is... well, you know.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 12:26 PM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 12:26 PM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
A flat circle?
posted by Krom Tatman at 12:52 PM on May 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Krom Tatman at 12:52 PM on May 20, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yeah, me too. If by huge damn smile you actually mean a gasp of horror and sadness.
For me it was just sort of a grim sense of "yeah, that fits"
posted by nubs at 1:04 PM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
For me it was just sort of a grim sense of "yeah, that fits"
posted by nubs at 1:04 PM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Re: the White Devil
There are some racial slurs that were used by blacks against their own race. I'm thinking of "Uncle Tom", etc. I could definitely see them switching to instead of Roland being the White Devil, he's just as bad or even worse because he works for/with the White Devil.
posted by LizBoBiz at 1:30 PM on May 20, 2016
There are some racial slurs that were used by blacks against their own race. I'm thinking of "Uncle Tom", etc. I could definitely see them switching to instead of Roland being the White Devil, he's just as bad or even worse because he works for/with the White Devil.
posted by LizBoBiz at 1:30 PM on May 20, 2016
I'm predicting it here: O/Detta will be an attractive white woman, and she won't be an amputee. She won't be named O/Detta. There will be no overt racial overtones. She will retain the split personality, though.
In fact, she and Eddie will be rather minor characters. Instead, Matthew McConaughey's role, already important, will be 3x the size it is on the page.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:32 PM on May 20, 2016
In fact, she and Eddie will be rather minor characters. Instead, Matthew McConaughey's role, already important, will be 3x the size it is on the page.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 4:32 PM on May 20, 2016
Instead, Matthew McConaughey's role, already important, will be 3x the size it is on the page.
Turns out Roland and Walter shared a room at the North Central Positronics Academy! Who knew!
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:55 PM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Turns out Roland and Walter shared a room at the North Central Positronics Academy! Who knew!
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:55 PM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
Great , now I'm imagining an anime adaptation of the Dark Tower with Roland and Walter/Randall as frenemies in a High School setting with Roland being the generic square jawed protagonist and Walter as the bishonen arrogant antagonist.
Probably with gunswords instead of six-shooters.
And Detta would be tsundere for Roland.
And it would probably have some moe-blobs or be a harem anime because apparently everything needs to be a harem fantasy to appeal to otaku.
posted by vuron at 7:52 PM on May 20, 2016
Probably with gunswords instead of six-shooters.
And Detta would be tsundere for Roland.
And it would probably have some moe-blobs or be a harem anime because apparently everything needs to be a harem fantasy to appeal to otaku.
posted by vuron at 7:52 PM on May 20, 2016
And also they're all pigeons at an elite high school.
posted by Itaxpica at 7:54 PM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Itaxpica at 7:54 PM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Apparently I'm some sort of brooding Dark Tower iconoclast: I hated Wizard and Glass, loved the ending, and liked Wolves best of the lot, bar the Gunslinger.
That horn tweet just made me even more excited about the movie...has there been any word on how involved King is in the project?
Side question: have they shown a Takuro Spirit in any of the 11/22/63 episodes yet?
posted by Kreiger at 8:10 PM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
That horn tweet just made me even more excited about the movie...has there been any word on how involved King is in the project?
Side question: have they shown a Takuro Spirit in any of the 11/22/63 episodes yet?
posted by Kreiger at 8:10 PM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Is there a preferred reading order...?
Also, "The Little Sisters of Eluria" (in Everything's Eventual) might be interesting after reading book 4.
posted by MtDewd at 8:59 AM on May 21, 2016
Also, "The Little Sisters of Eluria" (in Everything's Eventual) might be interesting after reading book 4.
posted by MtDewd at 8:59 AM on May 21, 2016
And, while we're on the subject, if the part hasn't been cast yet, and King is going to still include himself in the story (and ditch the part where Roland looks a bit like him), they could do worse than cast Josh Brolin as him.
I don't mind as long as they don't let King cameo as himself; he can write, but he certainly can't act.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 1:35 PM on May 21, 2016
I don't mind as long as they don't let King cameo as himself; he can write, but he certainly can't act.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 1:35 PM on May 21, 2016
he can write, but he certainly can't act.
Oh, pshaw. (Sadly, missing the immortal line: "Meteor shit!")
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:03 PM on May 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh, pshaw. (Sadly, missing the immortal line: "Meteor shit!")
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:03 PM on May 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
"The Little Sisters of Eluria"
Was my first trip to the Dark Tower, and I recommend it. You have no idea what the story us, but if it sells you, strap in for the rest. Verily, it's a bumpy ride.
Side question: have they shown a Takuro Spirit in any of the 11/22/63 episodes yet?
Not as of the mid point, I kinda lost interest.
Because they've decided to change Roland's race for whatever reason, I almost think it would be best to bitch the 'Detta/Eddie/King characters (Jake seems like he repeats in the pattern) and create new characters, so you can hit certain beats (Blaine, all the damned vampires) without getting into the more problematic issues.
posted by Mezentian at 4:25 AM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Was my first trip to the Dark Tower, and I recommend it. You have no idea what the story us, but if it sells you, strap in for the rest. Verily, it's a bumpy ride.
Side question: have they shown a Takuro Spirit in any of the 11/22/63 episodes yet?
Not as of the mid point, I kinda lost interest.
Because they've decided to change Roland's race for whatever reason, I almost think it would be best to bitch the 'Detta/Eddie/King characters (Jake seems like he repeats in the pattern) and create new characters, so you can hit certain beats (Blaine, all the damned vampires) without getting into the more problematic issues.
posted by Mezentian at 4:25 AM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Because they've decided to change Roland's race for whatever reason
Why does there need to be a reason?
posted by Krom Tatman at 12:41 PM on May 22, 2016
Why does there need to be a reason?
posted by Krom Tatman at 12:41 PM on May 22, 2016
Because they've decided to change Roland's race for whatever reason,
What they did was get the best actor they could afford who was willing and interested and available. This is how movies have worked since the end of the old "studio system" back in the 50's. They needed someone who could be believably grim and deadly, AND charming and diplomatic (something Clint would've had a tough time with even in his prime) AND carry a romance (at least if there's more than one movie/miniseries.) At this point, undoubtedly everyone from Tom Cruise to Benedict Cumberbatch has seen the script and/or been approached - Elba's the guy for whom the pieces all fell into place. As it so happens, he's black.
I don't doubt that somewhere in the bowels of Sony Pictures various people figured that it couldn't hurt to give a black guy the lead, given the many recent points made in various places about how PoC actors tend to get ignored or typecast or never get the lead - but if you think they specifically went after a black dude, you're being pretty obtuse. That's just not how casting works.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:12 PM on May 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
What they did was get the best actor they could afford who was willing and interested and available. This is how movies have worked since the end of the old "studio system" back in the 50's. They needed someone who could be believably grim and deadly, AND charming and diplomatic (something Clint would've had a tough time with even in his prime) AND carry a romance (at least if there's more than one movie/miniseries.) At this point, undoubtedly everyone from Tom Cruise to Benedict Cumberbatch has seen the script and/or been approached - Elba's the guy for whom the pieces all fell into place. As it so happens, he's black.
I don't doubt that somewhere in the bowels of Sony Pictures various people figured that it couldn't hurt to give a black guy the lead, given the many recent points made in various places about how PoC actors tend to get ignored or typecast or never get the lead - but if you think they specifically went after a black dude, you're being pretty obtuse. That's just not how casting works.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:12 PM on May 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
There is always a reason for everything. There's even Trump is winning in various things.
As it so happens, he's black.
Not in the new Star Trek.
and diplomatic (something Clint would've had a tough time with even in his prime
He performed well against that chair.
but if you think they specifically went after a black dude, you're being pretty obtuse.
I have no idea if they did or not, but at some point they made a choice to move away from decades of depictions of the character and that choice has weight, and we shouldn't avoid discussing what that means, in the real world, and in the context of the story.
I'm going to see the movie regardless (although possibly not at the cinema, because King is pretty much cinematic poison and you add in the star power of Akiva Goldsman and... nope), but let's not pretend that the casting was colour-blind.
Look, sure, 'Pizza Delivery Man from Space Precinct' (I just learned this, and he was in Ultraviolet, which I must rewatch) might be the best Arthur In Carl McCoy's Cowboy Hat. People who have seen him in Luther and The Wire seem to like him (my experiences have been with his more forgettable roles and.... ugh Pacific Rim, where he was abjectly terrible, but I am no casting director), but you can't pretend that casting him doesn't make a statement, whatever that statement is.
And if they'd cast Jackie Earle Haley, I'd still think that was a curious choice and question why. I mean, I'm still baffled by Matthew McConaughey as the Man In Black. Sure, he can act... but... he feels wrong.
best to bitch the 'Detta/Eddie/King characters (
Er... *ditch*.
posted by Mezentian at 3:28 AM on May 23, 2016
As it so happens, he's black.
Not in the new Star Trek.
and diplomatic (something Clint would've had a tough time with even in his prime
He performed well against that chair.
but if you think they specifically went after a black dude, you're being pretty obtuse.
I have no idea if they did or not, but at some point they made a choice to move away from decades of depictions of the character and that choice has weight, and we shouldn't avoid discussing what that means, in the real world, and in the context of the story.
I'm going to see the movie regardless (although possibly not at the cinema, because King is pretty much cinematic poison and you add in the star power of Akiva Goldsman and... nope), but let's not pretend that the casting was colour-blind.
Look, sure, 'Pizza Delivery Man from Space Precinct' (I just learned this, and he was in Ultraviolet, which I must rewatch) might be the best Arthur In Carl McCoy's Cowboy Hat. People who have seen him in Luther and The Wire seem to like him (my experiences have been with his more forgettable roles and.... ugh Pacific Rim, where he was abjectly terrible, but I am no casting director), but you can't pretend that casting him doesn't make a statement, whatever that statement is.
And if they'd cast Jackie Earle Haley, I'd still think that was a curious choice and question why. I mean, I'm still baffled by Matthew McConaughey as the Man In Black. Sure, he can act... but... he feels wrong.
best to bitch the 'Detta/Eddie/King characters (
Er... *ditch*.
posted by Mezentian at 3:28 AM on May 23, 2016
And if they'd cast Jackie Earle Haley, I'd still think that was a curious choice and question why.
I agree, if you compare photographs of him to depictions of Roland in the comics you can see that his skin tone is slightly more pinkish that it ought to be and that conscious choice in casting would lead to some questions
posted by beerperson at 11:01 AM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I agree, if you compare photographs of him to depictions of Roland in the comics you can see that his skin tone is slightly more pinkish that it ought to be and that conscious choice in casting would lead to some questions
posted by beerperson at 11:01 AM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I agree, if you compare photographs of him to depictions of Roland in the comics you can see that his skin tone is slightly more pinkish
Or, you know, the kid from the Bad News Bears and NuFreddy is completely wrong for the role.
(And a ginger - you really should have gone for the hair colour, it's a far easier attack vector).
I don't believe I have ever said he's a bad choice, just that he's a curious choice. And I have said if 'Lil Stevie's down, I'm happy to live with it, but the suggestion that you are some sort of Captain America type because you note the film makers have made a "brave" (as in Yes, Prime Minister) choice.... more power to you.
There's not enough snark on the Internet. Someday, we might harness it as an energy source.
posted by Mezentian at 9:27 AM on May 27, 2016
Or, you know, the kid from the Bad News Bears and NuFreddy is completely wrong for the role.
(And a ginger - you really should have gone for the hair colour, it's a far easier attack vector).
I don't believe I have ever said he's a bad choice, just that he's a curious choice. And I have said if 'Lil Stevie's down, I'm happy to live with it, but the suggestion that you are some sort of Captain America type because you note the film makers have made a "brave" (as in Yes, Prime Minister) choice.... more power to you.
There's not enough snark on the Internet. Someday, we might harness it as an energy source.
posted by Mezentian at 9:27 AM on May 27, 2016
« Older Project Earth is leaving beta | Shame! Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:51 PM on May 19, 2016 [13 favorites]