American Gods

July 23, 2016 10:44 AM

“As a general rule, if you loved it in the book, it is probably going to end up on your screen.” - Neil Gaiman on Bryan Fuller's TV series of his American Gods. First trailer here.
posted by Artw (114 comments total)

I listened to the audio book last year and enjoyed it, and have been surprised at how many bits have stayed with me. I'm really looking forward to the series.
posted by rtha at 10:49 AM on July 23, 2016

They manage to say "Shadow Moon" out loud and it doesn't sound ridiculous.
posted by Artw at 10:50 AM on July 23, 2016 [11 favorites]

The book always seemed prime for adaptation cause it's more of a series bible with notes and ideas than a real satisfying narrative.

That being said let it be known I am ACTIVELY campaigning to do the paid recaps of this series for anyone who will take me. I've got my Hannibal art book next to my expanded edition of The Golden Bough, i am the ideal vessel for this work.
posted by The Whelk at 10:51 AM on July 23, 2016 [27 favorites]

It was a hell of a fun book. I'm looking forward to this. Loved the Cairo funeral home and the South Dakota Whiskey Jack parts. Part noir mystery, part Midwestern travelogue.
posted by Bee'sWing at 10:55 AM on July 23, 2016 [6 favorites]

They manage to say "Shadow Moon" out loud and it doesn't sound ridiculous.

I'm looking forward to seeing how they manage to have Low Key Lyesmith introduce himself out loud while making it seem plausible for Shadow not to immediately twig what's going on.
posted by eykal at 10:56 AM on July 23, 2016 [11 favorites]

That being said let it be known I am ACTIVELY campaigning to do the paid recaps of this series for anyone who will take me.

/would Kickstart
posted by Artw at 10:57 AM on July 23, 2016 [5 favorites]

They aren't whitewashing Shadow. Good sign.
posted by Loudmax at 10:57 AM on July 23, 2016 [15 favorites]

RICKY WHITTLE

MY BRIDE
posted by poffin boffin at 11:00 AM on July 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

pleasedon'tsuckpleasedon'tsuckpleasedon'tsuckpleasedon'tsuckpleasedon'tsuck

Neil liking it is a good sign, but I've been burned before.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:04 AM on July 23, 2016 [7 favorites]

The book was kind of silly, but I think it could make a fun TV show.

Also: Crispin Glover!
posted by gwint at 11:05 AM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

i never really pictured someone like ian mcshane as wednesday, it was always a charles dance sort of guy for me, but now i will never picture anyone else
posted by poffin boffin at 11:07 AM on July 23, 2016 [9 favorites]

I read this book for the second time just a few months ago. There's a lot I love about it and a bit that annoys me, but I loved what Bryan Fuller did with 'Hannibal' so I'm reaaaaaaally looking forward to this. The trailer is making me happy. Crispin Glover!!
posted by h00py at 11:08 AM on July 23, 2016

Kristen Chenowith is Easter! Gillian Anderson is Media/TV (there was a rumor flying around she'll do the "talk to Shadow by breaking the 4th wall as a TV character ...as Agent Scully) That insane Crocodile head bar! I want it now.

(Not kidding about covering this , contact info is in the profile editors)
posted by The Whelk at 11:13 AM on July 23, 2016 [5 favorites]

I pictured Wednesday as bigger and fatter and sort of Orson Welles like.
posted by Bee'sWing at 11:14 AM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

Robert Loggia when he looked like this was my mental image for Wednesday.
posted by h00py at 11:15 AM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

"He knows nothing of our world."

"I'm easing him into it."

Me, thinking: Holy crap, Lovejoy, did brexit turn the antiques business that dark that fast?
posted by mhoye at 11:17 AM on July 23, 2016 [11 favorites]

The Djinn!
posted by ChuraChura at 11:33 AM on July 23, 2016

My wife hasn't ever read the book and she is excited silly for this show. I think the only way she could get more excited is if Neil appears in the show as a character.
posted by mwhybark at 11:36 AM on July 23, 2016

I have nothing but high (thus far undashed) hopes for this. American Gods was the kind of book that could change things in your head if you were the right age (and I was, 25 and really restless). I spent the entirety of my childhood and adolescence reading about gods/goddesses/assorted other mythic figures, so that the book was a confirmation of something I already suspected. Having grown up in fairly religious circles since childhood--who knew my Mom's Catholicism would be the most palatable compared to my father's Church of Christ?--it was always easier and more believable for me to believe in gods.

Tl;DR: this will break my heart in all the good ways.
posted by Kitteh at 11:39 AM on July 23, 2016 [9 favorites]

My wife saw the sledgehammer swinging at the cow and now refuses to watch it. I am inconsolable.
posted by Ber at 11:39 AM on July 23, 2016

In my head, in 2001, Wednesday looked like a bulkier Anthony Hopkins but sounded just like the narrator on the 10th anniversary Audiobook*, which shares more than a passing resemblance to Ian McShane in this trailer.

I am pretty sure that the film/tv production has been in development hell for so long because Media was waiting for Ricky Whittle to be ready. Vin Diesel, my 2001 Shadow, will always be my Book Shadow, but I am 100% here for TV Shadow.

(Also Orlando Jones as Mr. Nancy!!! Crispin Glover as Mr. World!!! Dane Cook as Robbie!!!)

I feel safe enough trusting Fuller with this show that I'm willing to put my heart into it. It'll probably get cancelled after two seasons, I'm just bracing myself for that now.

*Which I am on my 8th-ish re-listen right now, and the Narrator sounds so much like Stephen Colbert - which I never noticed before - that I am delighted anew.

I am not sure how many episodes Gaiman is writing, but he is writing more than one.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:46 AM on July 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

I've been burnt by trailers before but this looks just like I imagined it in.
posted by octothorpe at 11:51 AM on July 23, 2016

Me, thinking: Holy crap, Lovejoy, did brexit turn the antiques business that dark that fast?

I am just sad that they won't be able to have him say "No mister, just Wednesday", but will settled for a hint that all of Lovejoy was Odin taking a sabbatical in East Anglia. He's a loveable conman with magic powers, so it all makes sense. Tinker was obviously really Bacchus, Lady Jane was Demeter (because Lovejoy/Odin was always nipping 'round for a shag after doing some farm work). I've no idea who Eric was. I don't know if there even is a god of stereotyped Suffolk yokels.
posted by howfar at 11:51 AM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

It'll probably get cancelled after two seasons

I am lead to believe this is a one off mini-series with a option to expand once if the sequel comes out ? (I know HBO wanted to do the show on the condition Gaiman write a sequel)
posted by The Whelk at 11:53 AM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

I just hope that this time they remember to give the protagonist something to want.
posted by komara at 12:10 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Gillian Anderson is set to deliver the Lucy line. I may have a spontaneous orgasm when that happens.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:11 PM on July 23, 2016 [6 favorites]

I loved America Gods, thought it functioned as a decent mystery as well as an amazing fantasy novel. Isn't Anansi Boys a sequel of sorts?
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 12:22 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

Isn't Anansi Boys a sequel of sorts?
It takes place in the same universe. Mr Nancy bridges the two stories, but is not the central character in the book named for him. I think there might be a bit of reference to some of the specifics of AG in NB but I read them both a few years ago so not sure.
posted by howfar at 12:45 PM on July 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

I pictured Wednesday as bigger and fatter and sort of Orson Welles like.

I had him fixed in my head as William Morgan Sheppard when I first read it. Ian McShane will take some getting used to.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 1:05 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

All the press at this point is referring to it as a series and I've seen Gaiman and Fuller both mention "first season". I think the HBO project was going to be a limited series, but Starz appears to be going for a traditional run.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:16 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

If they do the events of the book as a first series, it would be both narratively complete and leave room for more, so ..let's hope that happens (Fuller and being prematurely cancelled are dual jinxes)
posted by The Whelk at 1:18 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Starz is throwing a fair chunk of money at this, way more than Bryan Fuller's ever gotten before, and by all accounts seem to want to help it succeed. It's also crammed with famous actors and based on a book by the unofficial King of the Nerds. None of this means it will DEFINITELY succeed but this isn't just another pre-doomed Fuller show which will struggle to find an audience.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:23 PM on July 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

I blindly trusted Gaiman since Sandman, so I trustfully bought the book. I thought it was about Nordic mythology, the book was actually quite good but i was just finishing Michael avon Oeming take on Marvel's Thor and I was so crazy about the potential that maybe I expected too much. Well written, the series may have a good potential as there are so many things to develop, but don't forget to take off both thor's eyeballs before illumination (did you see?).
posted by nims at 1:25 PM on July 23, 2016

I AM EXCITE
posted by eamondaly at 2:09 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Is this Gaiman's second series? Has he done any TV aside from Neverwhere?
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:19 PM on July 23, 2016

I think Neverwhere actually counts as a first series, even if it didn't originally air in North America.
posted by Kitteh at 2:28 PM on July 23, 2016

Right, that's what I'm saying. Has he had another series that would make this his third or more?
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:37 PM on July 23, 2016

Well, Interworld is also in production, but it came after the AG announcement, so yes?
posted by Kitteh at 2:40 PM on July 23, 2016

He wrote some Doctor Who episodes as well
posted by CrystalDave at 2:47 PM on July 23, 2016

I want to know who will be playing Sam.
posted by jeather at 2:58 PM on July 23, 2016

This looks pretty good, but I don't know if it's "subscribe to Starz" good.
posted by codacorolla at 3:12 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

I may have been the wrong age to read this, I guess. I was 30 and carried the paperback around with me one winter and read it whenever I was on a bus, which was usually about eight times a week for ten to fifteen minutes at a time. It did not in any way change my life. I remember some of the tangential chapters as far superior to the novel overall, and assumed they were short stories that Gaiman either had written years earlier and shoehorned in, or wrote concurrent with the rest of the novel whenever he started to lose interest in the main storyline. I liked the part with the car on the ice (although I recall being irritated by the spelling of "klunker"). Now and then, it was spectacular; as a narrative, it was okay.

I do think it will provide the material for a show that could easily be magnitudes better. Fuller and McShane could do anything and I can't imagine it ever being less than fantastic.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:16 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

This looks pretty good, but I don't know if it's "subscribe to Starz" good.

Only $9 a month for their streaming site. I plan to do like we did for Game of Thrones, and subscribe for the three months it's on.
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:17 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

I remember some of the tangential chapters as far superior to the novel overall, and assumed they were short stories that Gaiman either had written years earlier and shoehorned in, or wrote concurrent with the rest of the novel whenever he started to lose interest in the main storyline. I liked the part with the car on the ice (although I recall being irritated by the spelling of "klunker"). Now and then, it was spectacular; as a narrative, it was okay.

I agree with this (and I read it when I was 20, so it's not just that it appeals to whippersnappers). I found it very frustrating, because I so wanted to love it. It felt like a bunch of cool ideas kind of crammed together, and the focus on Shadow's POV drove me totally bonkers, because - are you kidding me? There's a massive epic war of the gods going on and we're stuck following this guy around small-town wherever-the-fuck and watching him practice coin tricks?! I had already read (and absolutely loved) Sandman, and I got the distinct impression that Gaiman just didn't quite know how to take a free-wheeling comic book style of storytelling and make it fit the more formal demands of a novel.

But - much like Game of Thrones actually - I think some of the book's biggest shortcomings are likely to be automatically improved just by virtue of being a TV show, even before you factor in the specific skills of the people involved in the show. We won't have to be inside Shadow's head for the whole thing, processing the experience second-hand through him; he's still the audience insert character, but we don't have to BE him. We can jump around and see what else is going on without too much being given away. And the sometimes annoyingly mannered place-setting stuff will be gone - a whole book page to describe a room? Nope, here's the room, look at it, it's right here in front of you.
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:26 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

Having grown up in fairly religious circles since childhood--who knew my Mom's Catholicism would be the most palatable compared to my father's Church of Christ?--it was always easier and more believable for me to believe in gods.

That was the weirdest part of the book to me. In many ways it seems like a book about America. But an America where nobody ever talks about Jesus? It's like some kind of weird fundamentalist fantasy that, outside of the tiny circle of their sect, the entire country is enthralled to paganism, somehow ignoring the actual utter ubiquity of Christianity.
posted by straight at 4:19 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

Anyplace I can watch the trailer (US- blocked)?

I listened to the book and did not like it much, but then I realized George Guidell read it, and I dislike almost everything he reads.
I have since developed a real fondness for Gaiman, and I should give the book another try- probably this time on paper.
posted by MtDewd at 4:38 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

Brian Dennehy! That's who I was trying to think of! He's the Wednesday in my head.
posted by h00py at 5:56 PM on July 23, 2016

There's no accounting for taste, and not to judge or anything, but you people that didn't think American Gods was terrific are dead to me.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 6:02 PM on July 23, 2016 [10 favorites]

somehow ignoring the actual utter ubiquity of Christianity

Er, you kinda missed the whole point of the book— that these "American gods" are poor and weak because they're marginalized in a sea of Jesus.
posted by zompist at 6:26 PM on July 23, 2016 [9 favorites]

There's no accounting for taste, and not to judge or anything, but you people that didn't think American Gods was terrific are dead to me.

If I want to spend 50 pages reading about a man hanging around idly in a small town eating pasties, I'll... well, hell, I'm not sure what other books involve that actually but it was boring.

I should add that my expectations were high after loving Sandman and Good Omens, neither of which had long stretches of total boringness, and the parts of American Gods that I did like only made The Protagonist With A Personality That Is At Least Half Just Coin Tricks even more disappointing.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:32 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

Maugham supposedly (possibly apocryphally) described himself as being "in the very first rank of the second-raters". I have often felt somewhat this way about Gaiman, and I get the sense that he often regards himself this way. But there's something paradoxically appealing about this. His books and his worlds feel friendly, to me. They're emotionally undemanding, keen to engage and amuse without feeling either overweening or needy, secure in and happy with their place in the world. His love of words, dreams and writing is obvious, and if he can't help but overindulge this love, I don't begrudge it, but am instead engaged by the enthusiasm and enjoyment he exhibits. He's like Rowling, in many ways, including their shared talent for creating the impression of rich and complex worlds using the flimsiest of materials, but more fundamentally in their clear-eyed and entirely humble affection for their creations.

Sometimes, I think, the front rank of the second-raters is actually the best possible place to be. That's how I feel about Gaiman, anyway.
posted by howfar at 6:37 PM on July 23, 2016 [5 favorites]

MtDewd, you may want to get the 10th anniversary audiobook, which is done by a full cast and is based on the "author's preferred text" version that came out in 2011. It's one of my favorite audiobooks, just for the production.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:55 PM on July 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

In my mind Gaiman and Pratchett met in a pub or a cafe somewhere, and after a very productive conversation, one went off to write American Gods, the other Small Gods.
posted by adept256 at 7:16 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

Good Omens is actually the direct result of both them attending a conference and having to double up on a hotel room and ending uo talking well behind bedtime about what would become Good Omens and they both said had they met a year before or after it wouldn't have happened.
posted by The Whelk at 7:22 PM on July 23, 2016 [11 favorites]

Anyplace I can watch the trailer (US- blocked)?

Search for it on YouTube - people are mirroring it.

I am absurdly excited about this. Mr. Wednesday isn't my old man, but he's a cousin of sorts and my affection for him and his brother is immense! I've been on tenderhooks since I heard they weren't whitewashing it, and it looks like it will be as vast, rich, and deep as it should be~!
posted by Deoridhe at 7:32 PM on July 23, 2016

aaaaahhhh i just watched it again and czernobog is PERFECT i am delight

would also have accepted rade serbedzija though
posted by poffin boffin at 7:35 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

showbiz_liz: "If I want to spend 50 pages reading about a man hanging around idly in a small town eating pasties, I'll... well, hell, I'm not sure what other books involve that actually but it was boring."

Agreed that was a bit boring, especially coming after the similar but more interesting stretch in Cairo - but I always took it as a riff on Lake Wobegon-style "all-American", practical, down home, & friendly mythoi.

Then later on you discover its creator, curator, & protector is also its dark underside…
posted by Pinback at 7:43 PM on July 23, 2016 [6 favorites]

I've been told more than once that Neil has admitted that the kid hacker god in the limo is based on Dem0nseed, the monster truck patron god of the cDc. Can't readily find any printed reference to support that though.
posted by scalefree at 7:46 PM on July 23, 2016

I actually really liked the whole Midwestern small town diversion cause it felt like an outsider's look at the whole lake woebegone thing and the whole resolution of that plot was neat , like it's not part of the EPIC WAR OF THE GODS, it's just another little side show.
posted by The Whelk at 7:48 PM on July 23, 2016 [7 favorites]

So, I'm on board for this, but the guy playing Shadow (I haven't seen his other work) seems like a smaller-framed dude, but isn't Shadow's supposed to be big and brawny -- Wednesday looks at him and says "I need this guy for my muscle", right?
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:49 PM on July 23, 2016

I guess, watching it again just looking for this, we don't really see a strong size reference for him. So I'm not sure what gave me the feeling he's smaller. (I just mean smaller by comparison to the comic book in my head; I guess I pictured Shadow as being like a The Rock sized guy, not a regular-person-but-muscley sized guy.)
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:00 PM on July 23, 2016

Ricky Whittle is six foot 2. He's never been anything but ripped since he started doing UK TV in that Hollyoaks series, but he's brilliant in the 100 (and routinely carries unconscious men, women, trees, etc.).

I LOVE HIM SO MUCH LobsterMitten and you will, too.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 8:03 PM on July 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

Here are Mr Wednesday and Shadow walking side by side IRL so you can see he's bigger/brawnier by comparison, though I get what you're saying.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 8:07 PM on July 23, 2016

I don't follow this stuff closely, so I want to make sure I understand: the guy who did Pushing Daisies is helming the reboot of Star Trek on TV and a high production value season long adaptation of American Gods?

My recent experiences with Hollywood has JJ Abrams getting way too much and providing too little inspiration or throwing Joss Whedon at blockbusters instead of movies with dialogue. I'm trying to wrap my head around a choice I actually find intriguing.
posted by mark k at 8:11 PM on July 23, 2016 [6 favorites]

That just shows me a picture of Shadow in his undies, which is no problem, really.
posted by h00py at 8:11 PM on July 23, 2016 [7 favorites]

Bryan Fuller has amazing vision. I think he'll do a fine job.
posted by h00py at 8:12 PM on July 23, 2016

New Trek is looking like it's gonna be all Ralph McQuarrie designs all the time, which TBH I am perfectly happy with.
posted by Artw at 8:13 PM on July 23, 2016

It has been brought to my attention that I accidentally two undie pics.

Side by side photo comparison here.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 8:22 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Mark K - yep! It's not as crazy as it sounds, he actually got his start writing for DS9 and Voyager, and he got offered these two higher-profile projects largely based on the critical success of Hannibal, which is less of a tonal leap from American Gods than his earlier stuff would have been.
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:41 PM on July 23, 2016

The Wednesday in my head was thinner/gray-haired, but if the actor does a good job it won't bother me.

(wait, wasn't he gray-headed in the book? Almost sure he was).

I liked pretty much every single part of the book, smalltown bits included, because I didn't mind being in Shadow's head.

Also, for those of you that don't know, Shadow turns up "Monarch of the Glen," which takes place after AG, in Gaiman's Fragile Things.

I am actually not the hugest fan of the Sandman series, but I can understand why someone would be. He's not a huge, mind-breaking type of writer but he does what he does very very well.
posted by emjaybee at 8:53 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Also, for those of you that don't know, Shadow turns up "Monarch of the Glen," which takes place after AG, in Gaiman's Fragile Things.

And in another long short-story called "Black Dog" in the infuriatingly titled collection Trigger Warning.
posted by howfar at 9:03 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

Thank you for the reassurance on Shadow!

The Wednesday in my head was thinner/gray-haired

Yeah, McShane is not how I pictured him, although I'm now struggling to rebuild my original image - I think gray or gray-blond, not dark haired. I was picturing him as broad-faced not skinny-faced (so in that sense McShane is a fit - or Brendan Gleeson). It looks in the trailer as if McShane is playing him sort of as Johnny Cash, which, it's not in keeping with the literal origin of the character but I can get behind it as an Americana thing.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:14 PM on July 23, 2016

Note that in one of the first set of first-look photos, I believe Pablo Schreiber is giganticized, a la Elf, as he is playing an extremely large leprechaun. Shadow is supposed to look small in comparison.

Whittle is actually just a few inches shorter than Schreiber. Neil Gaiman's not exactly a tiny man and he still gets dwarfed between the two of them, which should be sufficient for Shadow to be the "big guy" other people often comment on, especially as your average actor is on the petite side.

On my re-listen today, I got through the back end of the quiet period in Lakeside through The Meeting In The Center Of America. Assuming these are short seasons I could see [IMDB says 10 episodes], if they expanded the Lakeside period to cover more of the god-visiting Wednesday and Shadow do, you could probably take the first season up through the night everything falls apart in Lakeside, cliffhang it on the thing Shadow sees on the TV, and then come back for a second season leading up through the end of the book. And then, if they make it to a third season, start on new stories about Shadow after all that stuff happens and maybe B-arc in the best of the Anansi Boys stuff.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:17 PM on July 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

We learned tonight (at the NerdHQ panel) that season 1 will end with the events at the House on the Rock. So here's hoping we really do get a second (and third and and and) season so we can see more of both the book and the expanded universe. Of the cast I saw at SDCC, only Pablo Schreiber is of a bigger build than Whittle so the bar fight should be quite entertaining but also fairly equal.
posted by komlord at 9:20 PM on July 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

I believe Pablo Schreiber is giganticized, a la Elf, as he is playing an extremely large leprechaun. Shadow is supposed to look small in comparison.

Ah, that makes sense.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:32 PM on July 23, 2016

Wanna have a really weird experience? Read "Long Dark Teatime of the Soul" right after "American Gods"
posted by mrzarquon at 9:34 PM on July 23, 2016 [12 favorites]

There's no accounting for taste, and not to judge or anything, but you people that didn't think American Gods was terrific are dead to me.

I'd have to politely suggest you read more books.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:53 PM on July 23, 2016 [7 favorites]

For your further review: American Gods fanfic at AO3, sorted by kudos, complete stories only.

The first handful are crossovers: Hannibal, Teen Wolf, Sherlock, Avengers. (There's a non-crossover buried in there for those who have accounts at AO3, and it's awesome, but not for public linking.) Enjoy.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:18 PM on July 23, 2016

It looks in the trailer as if McShane is playing him sort of as Johnny Cash, which, it's not in keeping with the literal origin of the character but I can get behind it as an Americana thing.

I think it works given the overarching mythos of the world; Mr. Wednesday is far more acted upon by his environment than might initially be obvious. Me, I'm wondering if and how they'll do Iceland.
posted by Deoridhe at 10:39 PM on July 23, 2016

Why oh why am I getting Masked And Anonymous vibes
posted by pxe2000 at 4:59 AM on July 24, 2016

I love the supplemental post-American Gods stories about Shadow, Monarch of the Glen especially.
posted by Kitteh at 5:32 AM on July 24, 2016

Shameful admission: I thought David Soul should play Wednesday.
posted by allthinky at 6:11 AM on July 24, 2016

There's no accounting for taste, and not to judge or anything, but you people that didn't think American Gods was terrific are dead to me.

I read it with high expectations because friends had loved it and the reviews overall were good, but I thought it was uninteresting and very unevenly written. Different strokes, different folks, etc.

But that said, I expect this to be a much better TV show than it was a book, and I will watch this with pleasure.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:12 AM on July 24, 2016

somehow ignoring the actual utter ubiquity of Christianity

Er, you kinda missed the whole point of the book— that these "American gods" are poor and weak because they're marginalized in a sea of Jesus.

If I remember correctly (it's been a couple years, time for a re-read!), the old gods are actually being sidelined by gods of technology, media, and urban superstition - which may actually be a backhanded commentary on the true state of Christianity in America or it might not. Christ is mentioned a couple of times in conversation so his existence is acknowledged, but we don't meet him as far as I know in-narrative.
posted by AdamCSnider at 7:43 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]

If I remember correctly (it's been a couple years, time for a re-read!), the old gods are actually being sidelined by gods of technology, media, and urban superstition - which may actually be a backhanded commentary on the true state of Christianity in America or it might not. Christ is mentioned a couple of times in conversation so his existence is acknowledged, but we don't meet him as far as I know in-narrative.

Yes, exactly. Gods in the story get their power from what people actually worship, not what they claim to worship. The absence of Jesus (except for a couple of parentheticals) is 100% a commentary on the empty, performative nature of Christianity in America.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:52 AM on July 24, 2016 [12 favorites]

Oh, David Soul would be good too. Or Stellan Skarsgard maybe.

I tend to agree with the analysis that says American Gods is a really, really great world/conceit/mythos and an only-ok specific story.
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:59 AM on July 24, 2016 [4 favorites]

and urban superstition

This is my favorite concept from the book, the actual living American folklore of things we all know ...aren't actually true ( faceless G-men covering up supernatural crimes, fancy genius serial killers, scientists punching holes in reality, etc) but all kind of suspect may be true and we have lots and lots of media and stories about them.
posted by The Whelk at 8:06 AM on July 24, 2016 [2 favorites]

Also, and this is not body-shaming because Chenowith is beautiful, but Easter is a plump lady, and she is not. Unless they're going to CGI her which seems unlikely. But it's actually an important bit to her book character, the whole plump-fertility-goddess-abundance thing.

Charlize Theron was actually who I thought of, because she is so tall and (for Hollywood) curvy, but also Christina Hendricks or similar would fit that bill physically.

I mean, I'll get over it, Chenowith is wonderful, but it would be nice to have more body types represented especially when the narrative actually calls for it :(
posted by emjaybee at 8:13 AM on July 24, 2016 [5 favorites]

Sometimes, I think, the front rank of the second-raters is actually the best possible place to be. That's how I feel about Gaiman, anyway.

I agree, Howfar; I am fonder of E. M. Forster and Robert Louis Stevenson than of Leo Tolstoy or Thomas Mann. However, I find Gaiman more third-rate. I read "American Gods" because so many of my friends loved it, but I found it hard to get through.

Fantasy is a difficult genre*. It should describe reality with believable impossibilities stuck in in order to entertain the reader. Many great examples (Swift’s “Gulliver’s Travels”, Kafka’s “Metamorphosis”, Gogol’s “The Nose”, Bulgakov’s “Master and Margarita”) are compelling because they are critiques of their societies. Fantasies that are not satiric often describe heroes’ quests and battles between good and evil. So here’s Neil Gaiman with a satire about a battle between good old Gods like leprechauns and Johnny Appleseed versus bad new Gods like television and the internet. I found the fantasy implausible (why, exactly, was Wotan in the US with zero believers? How many people in what size geographic unit is necessary for the sustenance of a God? I didn’t find this very well thought out). As satire, let's face it: I barely had the energy to type out “leprechauns and Johnny Appleseed vs. TV and the internet” much less eagerly anticipate the great battle.

On TV, however, this might really be fun.

*The worst section of E.M. Forster's "Aspects of the Novel" is the chapter on Fantasy.
posted by acrasis at 8:34 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]

The thing I never liked about AG, mostly just because it was so unnecessary, was how the new gods were just Media and Internet and whatnot instead of being distinct personalities that were the gods of media or whatever. It just felt lazy.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:41 AM on July 24, 2016 [2 favorites]

Media does sound like a proper god name though.
posted by Artw at 9:01 AM on July 24, 2016 [2 favorites]

for sure more people worship Gillian Anderson in propria persona than do any concept of Media more broadly or vestigial memory of Lucille Ball. I suppose asking her to play herself would be too whatever the opposite of meta is, but if you want a figure so mighty that the old gods wither before her, she is a good choice. I used to know a woman who claimed to worship Thor (the mighty Thor? I asked; that Thor? Yes, she said) and her feelings for him were way more tepid and metaphor-based than mine for Bedelia Scully are.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:18 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]

We learned tonight (at the NerdHQ panel) that season 1 will end with the events at the House on the Rock.

THIS IS EVERYTHING. But I cannot figure out how they are going to do it. Filming on location seems unlikely, because it sooooo shabby, while everything in the trailer looks awfully sleek, like comic panels. But how on earth to you recreate House on the Rock on a soundstage? I'm so curious how they're going to handle it, and terrified that it is going to suck.
posted by BrashTech at 10:43 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]

Heh. I'm thinking movie Warrens museum versus actual Warrens museum.
posted by Artw at 10:46 AM on July 24, 2016 [1 favorite]

nstead of being distinct personalities

The only one with a real distinct personality was Technology, who was a complete asshole.

(Media And Television where separate Gods in the book, Television had a vulgar con-man twinge I liked. Media was basically Diane Sawyer? I did like that Automobile was a huge tower of fire and smoke, engorged on blood sacrifces.)
posted by The Whelk at 10:53 AM on July 24, 2016 [2 favorites]

BrashTech, I think they did actually film at House on the Rock. Neil posted a pic of Bryan there, riding the carousel!
posted by merriment at 11:53 AM on July 24, 2016 [4 favorites]

Here is the entire Comic-Con panel from yesterday.
posted by Lyn Never at 12:18 PM on July 24, 2016 [3 favorites]

I think getting McShane as Wednesday is inspired casting, but I know that some small part of me will be constantly expecting for him to let a "cocksucker" or "hooplehead" fly.

I like Orlando Jones, but after seeing Deadwood, I had mentally cast Franklin Ajaye as Mr. Nancy.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 2:36 PM on July 24, 2016

> I don't know if there even is a god of stereotyped Suffolk yokels.

There will be if you believe in him.
posted by DebetEsse at 2:37 PM on July 24, 2016 [4 favorites]

So many feels! Felt chills watching that and In the Pines is the perfect song.

Very glad Ricky Whittle was cast. Peter Stormare was my Czernobog. McShane's close enough to Wednesday, I had him taller, old-man stronger, and paunchier but the hair and grizzledness is right.

Easter, I envisioned as a older plumpish Pamela Anderson, but you know, nice.
posted by porpoise at 2:49 PM on July 24, 2016

My wife saw the sledgehammer swinging at the cow and now refuses to watch it.

I'm torn. I don't want to watch fake cow murder, but I also want to watch Ian McShane.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:48 PM on July 24, 2016

I would watch this just for Peter Stormare as Czernobog, to be honest. Although the rest looks very promising too.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 5:11 PM on July 24, 2016 [2 favorites]

That being said let it be known I am ACTIVELY campaigning to do the paid recaps of this series for anyone who will take me. I've got my Hannibal art book next to my expanded edition of The Golden Bough, i am the ideal vessel for this work.

A+++ qualifications, would read your recaps.

---

I agree both that American Gods had a few flaws as a a book (although I still quite liked it, extended descriptions of Mabel's delicious pasties and all), and that many of them probably will be less of a problem in a TV adaptation. I've generally felt that after a story as large and wide-ranging as Sandman - and with as much room for digressions - Gaiman may have felt a bit constrained by the more linear format of a novel. But the story and world of American Gods are pretty adaptable and extendable, and the episodic nature of the story will translate to TV without much difficulty, I think.

The casting looks encouraging - they're not whitewashing Shadow (so far he matches my imaginary version of his character the best), those pictures going around of Gillian Anderson as Lucy were perfect for Media, and while I pictured Wednesday as tall, lean, and gray-haired (poffin boffin's Charles Dance comparison sounds about right), I can't imagine Ian McShane not getting Wednesday's "deep cynical joy in words" right.

Plus, after Hannibal, I am absolutely sold on Bryan Fuller's ability to get the sense of weirdness and wonder and danger right. And if American Gods manages to be half as visually stunning, well, I'd watch it for that alone.
posted by ubersturm at 5:37 PM on July 24, 2016 [3 favorites]

I used to know a woman who claimed to worship Thor (the mighty Thor? I asked; that Thor? Yes, she said) and her feelings for him were way more tepid and metaphor-based than mine for Bedelia Scully are.

Speaking as a member of one of the religions which worships the Norse gods, I downplay how I feel about it to people who cite comics in reference to them as a matter of course. Polytheism is rare in the US, and most people don't understand. I pour out top shelf to Thor, Mjolnir's Wielder, but I could see people assuming my reticence was due to lack of feeling instead of disinterest in peoples' shock and mockery at something they view as ficitonal.

Gaiman is closer than most in Mr. Wednesday, in my experience, but I'm closest to my old man as the Masked One and Gallows Load than the High One chosen as his face by Marvel, so my comfort level makes sense. Gaiman is farthest from Mjolnir's Wielder but got the hair color right, while Marvel's Mighty series is midling but made him blond. I'd imagine in some ways my experience of seeing them through the eyes of non-believers is similar to seeing media based on a friends' life; what they change and what they miss is always fascinating, but you still have your friend and that's better than any movie or book.

As for how they all got here - Leif Erikson is the in book explanation, but Asatru and other Norse-based revival faiths date back 75 years or so and Gaimen specifically ties Gallow's Load to con artistry and magic, so given his worldbuilding these would be secondary and tertiary sources of power.
posted by Deoridhe at 7:44 PM on July 24, 2016 [8 favorites]

Plus, after Hannibal, I am absolutely sold on Bryan Fuller's ability to get the sense of weirdness and wonder and danger right. And if American Gods manages to be half as visually stunning, well, I'd watch it for that alone.

One of the things I am really really looking forward to are the unreal parts of the story: Shadow's dreams, the Backstage, the Coming To America interludes*, the backstories of the gods. Because that is Bryan Fuller at his best, unreality.

*I was watching the trailer with my husband several times last night, and we both agreed that if we don't get to see Mr. Nancy singing the song about stealing Tiger's test-imonials what even is the point?
posted by Lyn Never at 8:40 PM on July 24, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yeah the book has so such unreal dream imagery and Hannibal hit such a perfect note for dreamy creative imagery that I M REALLY EXCITED. Like. look what Hannibal did with stuff in the Harris books and nightmares emerging out if the darkness, just structurally, now image the carnival ride "behind the scenes" , or the room of the dead gods?


Sheeeet.
posted by The Whelk at 8:51 PM on July 24, 2016 [2 favorites]

(In case anybody needs a US link, Starz is hosting the trailer on their own YouTube channel.)
posted by tobascodagama at 8:58 PM on July 24, 2016

If I remember correctly (it's been a couple years, time for a re-read!), the old gods are actually being sidelined by gods of technology, media, and urban superstition - which may actually be a backhanded commentary on the true state of Christianity in America or it might not. Christ is mentioned a couple of times in conversation so his existence is acknowledged, but we don't meet him as far as I know in-narrative.

I was interested in how Jesus does or does not fit into the book's cosmology, but my earlier comment was more about how weird it was to have a story set in these places, working hard to evoke the local color of America, and yet there are no characters who talk about church or Jesus. There's no sense of how, no matter how small the town, you're guaranteed to see several churches, several signs and billboards about Jesus.
posted by straight at 9:30 PM on July 24, 2016

I remember from old interviews that the lack of Christianity was a deliberate choice. It was left up to the listener at the time what one might take away there about regional belief, though Easter was super irritated about Jesus co-opting her holiday.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:56 PM on July 24, 2016 [2 favorites]

yeah, that's a huge part of the appeal of the book for me. the last thing this or any other story needs is more jesus.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:56 PM on July 24, 2016 [4 favorites]

I downplay how I feel about it to people who cite comics in reference to them as a matter of course.

very circumspect of you but I have never cited a comic in my life in reference to anything including comics, and hope I never shall. think what you will of my adjectives. I was delighted to (as I thought at first) know somebody who appeared to believe in a god with a personality regardless of his name, epithets or ethnicity, and greatly downcast to discover after a fair amount of conversation that it was just some wishy washy deal to do with principles and symbols and archetypes. I was not after uncovering her innermost feelings, which are none of my business, just trying to be sure she meant THOR Thor. but alas she did not.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:39 PM on July 24, 2016

I always kinda got the impression that God/Jesus, being the principal gods of America, were kind of on a higher level than the gods in the story and wouldn't be around to get involved in their conflicts. That part never really bothered me.

Filming on location seems unlikely, because it sooooo shabby, while everything in the trailer looks awfully sleek, like comic panels. But how on earth to you recreate House on the Rock on a soundstage? I'm so curious how they're going to handle it, and terrified that it is going to suck.

They are definitely filming on location at the House on the Rock. I think that was one of the first things they insisted on when they were hammering the budget out. I'm not worried about the shabbiness of the real location - you can do incredible things with lighting and framing.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:51 AM on July 25, 2016 [4 favorites]

I always kinda got the impression that God/Jesus, being the principal gods of America, were kind of on a higher level than the gods in the story and wouldn't be around to get involved in their conflicts. That part never really bothered me.

I didn't really want Jesus to be a character in the story, but I definitely felt like a book called "American Gods" would have to at least acknowledge the fact that the vast majority of people in America (over 75% back in 2001) claim to worship Jesus, many of whom would belittle or actively hate paganism. Imagine a novel called "American Race" that followed a bunch of African American characters and nobody ever talked about white racism.
posted by straight at 10:02 AM on July 25, 2016

First of all Bryan Fuller is so the perfect person to make this show after Hannibal. I see so much of his awesomeness in that trailer.

Second, I do actually sympathize with the people who say they were underwhelmed by the book the first time they read it, because I was as well. It is a big, sometimes slow book, and I think it's easy to get lost in it when you don't really know what's going on or what the point of it is. I enjoyed it MUCH more on a second reading a few years later. It think there's a denseness to it that rewards a second reading, where you're not worrying about what in the world is happening and can really appreciate it.
posted by threeturtles at 12:34 PM on July 25, 2016 [1 favorite]