When Nature Happens, Live
August 1, 2016 7:36 PM Subscribe
Explore.org's live webcams have become wildly popular over the last few years, allowing viewers to watch, from the comfort of their home or office, livestreams of grizzlies, walruses, belugas, puffins, eagles and more in their natural habitat. Truly the best of the web. But there is a danger in becoming too attached. Today at a little after 7 pm Eastern time, fans of the osprey cam in Bremen, Me., watched nature in its most brutally real. [Warning: nature.]
Needless to say, the commenters on the osprey site are devastated.
Needless to say, the commenters on the osprey site are devastated.
I clicked on the walrus one, and in the bottom left hand corner there was a walrus clearly rubbing one out. I mean, erect penis, flipper -- dude was going places.
Then the camera panned to the right, conveniently to some non-masturbating walruses. It's been there for a couple minutes.
So, I'm kind of amused at the thought that someone controlling this camera thought that was too much nature.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:49 PM on August 1, 2016 [10 favorites]
Then the camera panned to the right, conveniently to some non-masturbating walruses. It's been there for a couple minutes.
So, I'm kind of amused at the thought that someone controlling this camera thought that was too much nature.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:49 PM on August 1, 2016 [10 favorites]
WHOA.
Just.... whoa. That's... fast. It really strikes me when I get a real glimpse of why certain animals have been (excuse the unintended pun) lionized throughout history, but when you see what they do, how fast, how incredibly powerfully, you kinda get a glimpse into the ingrained fear-brain that makes us respond the way we do.
Last month I got to watch an osprey (which: I hadn't really realized how BIG they are, having seen them from way afar before) light on a tree next to the estuary where I was kayaking. And a few minutes later, landed again next to me, a little lower. Then I saw the mama duck, and about 9-12 ducklings right along the grasses at the edge. Mama duck knew the osprey was there, of course, and knew it was after her, not the ducklings, and took off across the top of the water, as far away from the ducklings as fast as she could go, making a big commotion. Then the osprey, now behind me, took off, in a long, sweeping flight apparently aiming to arc in and sweep mama duck off the water. Mama duck ducks underwater, and the osprey straight up hit the airbrakes, wings full, and shot straight up and hung as it slowly povited to aim down for the duck coming back up. Then tucked and dove.
And missed mama duck, again. Thnakfully I didn't have to witness the worst, and I'm pretty sure mama duck got back to the babies, but it was something I'll never ever forget seeing.
posted by rp at 7:54 PM on August 1, 2016 [16 favorites]
Just.... whoa. That's... fast. It really strikes me when I get a real glimpse of why certain animals have been (excuse the unintended pun) lionized throughout history, but when you see what they do, how fast, how incredibly powerfully, you kinda get a glimpse into the ingrained fear-brain that makes us respond the way we do.
Last month I got to watch an osprey (which: I hadn't really realized how BIG they are, having seen them from way afar before) light on a tree next to the estuary where I was kayaking. And a few minutes later, landed again next to me, a little lower. Then I saw the mama duck, and about 9-12 ducklings right along the grasses at the edge. Mama duck knew the osprey was there, of course, and knew it was after her, not the ducklings, and took off across the top of the water, as far away from the ducklings as fast as she could go, making a big commotion. Then the osprey, now behind me, took off, in a long, sweeping flight apparently aiming to arc in and sweep mama duck off the water. Mama duck ducks underwater, and the osprey straight up hit the airbrakes, wings full, and shot straight up and hung as it slowly povited to aim down for the duck coming back up. Then tucked and dove.
And missed mama duck, again. Thnakfully I didn't have to witness the worst, and I'm pretty sure mama duck got back to the babies, but it was something I'll never ever forget seeing.
posted by rp at 7:54 PM on August 1, 2016 [16 favorites]
Preview: Came to post osprey story, stayed for the walrus porn.
posted by rp at 7:57 PM on August 1, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by rp at 7:57 PM on August 1, 2016 [16 favorites]
I just saw this in the comments, from the director of the center where this happened
Dear Osprey friends:posted by teponaztli at 8:02 PM on August 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
I share your shock over this latest eagle attack on Rachel and Steve’s nest. Soon after the attack, Audubon staff began a thorough search under the nest, along the shoreline under the nest and by boat all along the shore and in the water between the shore and the Crown Royal. The searchers have just reported that they found no osprey chicks on the ground or in the water. We will continue the search tomorrow with better light and expand the search to the nearby trees. After such an event, especially at dusk, it would be normal for a fledgling to be quiet and hiding.
Thanks all for your great compassion and caring for the Hog Island ospreys.
My very best,
Steve
Blimey, those osprey watchers are really invested.
posted by unliteral at 8:07 PM on August 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by unliteral at 8:07 PM on August 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
I can't link to it, but last week Maine Public Radio had a story about how the rising eagle population in Maine has wreaked havoc on other bird species, including cormorants and herons. There aren't as many fish as there once were, so they have really gone after birds.
posted by Sukey Says at 8:18 PM on August 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Sukey Says at 8:18 PM on August 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
Sukey Says, my osprey encounter was in Maine. I'm gonna look that one up. Thanks!
posted by rp at 8:33 PM on August 1, 2016
posted by rp at 8:33 PM on August 1, 2016
Story the first:
There's a pond in the Japanese Garden section of Brooklyn's Botanic Garden, with a big gazebo-type thing stretching over the water at one side and a smaller, covered bench at the other. One afternoon I was sitting on the covered bench and trying to concentrate on reading, despite a whole crowd of boisterous kids watching the big koi in the pond.
For the past our I'd been at the garden, I'd now and then seen a big hawk circling overhead; I didn't think anything of it, though, I'd seen it around the garden before. I was more annoyed that the kids were interrupting my reading, and so I was trying to concentrate on the book and shut them out.
So I wasn't looking up when I suddenly heard a very loud "splash", and then all the kids fall silent a split-second later. I looked up then, startled - just in time to see the hawk was taking off from the surface of the pond, a koi still wriggling in its claws. The hawk circled the pond once or twice - flying past the kids in the gazebo, who watched it with wide fearful eyes - and then rose up and over the trees, presumably off to its nest, as we all watched it go; me, the kids, and another woman who'd paused in her walk near my bench. Just as the hawk vanished, the woman turned and met my eyes, we both looked over at the freaked-out kids, then back at each other, and cracked up.
Story the second:
For a solid three-year period, I had an unusual streak of luck when it came to animals in zoos or farms; whenever I stopped by one pen or another, invariably some animals would start gettin' it on. First at the Monterey Aquarium, where after five minutes of watching the sea otters circling in their tank, I suddenly looked up and saw one otter was swimming behind the other with his dick out (and otters are hung, y'all), and six months later my visit to the goat pen at the Central Park Childrens' Zoo sparked a billy goat to mount a nanny; and a few months after that, while saying hello to the horses nearby a youth hostel in Philly, suddenly one of the stallions decided to chase a mare, with his full ungelded self on show. Two days after that I was wandering by the tortoise pen at the Philly Zoo just as they were starting to...yeah. And a few months after that, my parents and I visited the Boston Aquarium, and we were surveying the penguin cage when my mother and I had this exchange:
MOM: Oh, look at those penguins over there, they're - oh. Oh my.
ME: ...oh. Okay, yeah, it's probably my fault.
MOM: ....?
So yeah, sex and death in the animal kingdom - I'm used to it.
(I think I ultimately burnt out my animal magnetism mojo when a good friend was trying to conceive; I joked that I maybe could try to help by just saluting in her cardinal direction a few times that week. We both laughed it off, but I still did. ....Her daughter just turned ten in February.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:43 PM on August 1, 2016 [21 favorites]
There's a pond in the Japanese Garden section of Brooklyn's Botanic Garden, with a big gazebo-type thing stretching over the water at one side and a smaller, covered bench at the other. One afternoon I was sitting on the covered bench and trying to concentrate on reading, despite a whole crowd of boisterous kids watching the big koi in the pond.
For the past our I'd been at the garden, I'd now and then seen a big hawk circling overhead; I didn't think anything of it, though, I'd seen it around the garden before. I was more annoyed that the kids were interrupting my reading, and so I was trying to concentrate on the book and shut them out.
So I wasn't looking up when I suddenly heard a very loud "splash", and then all the kids fall silent a split-second later. I looked up then, startled - just in time to see the hawk was taking off from the surface of the pond, a koi still wriggling in its claws. The hawk circled the pond once or twice - flying past the kids in the gazebo, who watched it with wide fearful eyes - and then rose up and over the trees, presumably off to its nest, as we all watched it go; me, the kids, and another woman who'd paused in her walk near my bench. Just as the hawk vanished, the woman turned and met my eyes, we both looked over at the freaked-out kids, then back at each other, and cracked up.
Story the second:
For a solid three-year period, I had an unusual streak of luck when it came to animals in zoos or farms; whenever I stopped by one pen or another, invariably some animals would start gettin' it on. First at the Monterey Aquarium, where after five minutes of watching the sea otters circling in their tank, I suddenly looked up and saw one otter was swimming behind the other with his dick out (and otters are hung, y'all), and six months later my visit to the goat pen at the Central Park Childrens' Zoo sparked a billy goat to mount a nanny; and a few months after that, while saying hello to the horses nearby a youth hostel in Philly, suddenly one of the stallions decided to chase a mare, with his full ungelded self on show. Two days after that I was wandering by the tortoise pen at the Philly Zoo just as they were starting to...yeah. And a few months after that, my parents and I visited the Boston Aquarium, and we were surveying the penguin cage when my mother and I had this exchange:
MOM: Oh, look at those penguins over there, they're - oh. Oh my.
ME: ...oh. Okay, yeah, it's probably my fault.
MOM: ....?
So yeah, sex and death in the animal kingdom - I'm used to it.
(I think I ultimately burnt out my animal magnetism mojo when a good friend was trying to conceive; I joked that I maybe could try to help by just saluting in her cardinal direction a few times that week. We both laughed it off, but I still did. ....Her daughter just turned ten in February.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:43 PM on August 1, 2016 [21 favorites]
Red in tooth and claw. I can't even watch the puppycams when a mother is giving birth, since she tends to lose one or more per litter.
posted by praemunire at 8:46 PM on August 1, 2016
posted by praemunire at 8:46 PM on August 1, 2016
This reminded me of a TAL story about another osprey cam with dedicated watchers that eventually saw the mother osprey attacking and neglecting her young. Viewers demanded that the camera owner intervene in that one of too.
posted by Karaage at 8:55 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Karaage at 8:55 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is how both parties' nomination processes should have gone.
posted by delfin at 8:56 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by delfin at 8:56 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
In one of Ivan Doig's books there's a scene where a group of grade school kids on a field trip to a raptor rescue facility get to watch an eagle swoop down on a squirrel and dismember it with clearly audible ripping sounds.
posted by Bruce H. at 9:12 PM on August 1, 2016
posted by Bruce H. at 9:12 PM on August 1, 2016
I'll never forget, as a young child, watching The Trials of Life and the episode where the Orcas are beaching themselves in order to feast on baby seals. 20 years later I sat with my own kids as we watched Blue Planet and the part where Orcas wear down a baby hump back whale and then rip it to shreds.
My youngest was so angry with me for letting him see that. Like, visceral rage from a five-year-old.
Needless to say we won't be watching any bird cams for a few years at least. Also, fuck Orcas.
posted by Doleful Creature at 9:24 PM on August 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
My youngest was so angry with me for letting him see that. Like, visceral rage from a five-year-old.
Needless to say we won't be watching any bird cams for a few years at least. Also, fuck Orcas.
posted by Doleful Creature at 9:24 PM on August 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
During this incident Little B accidentally fledged.
posted by gottabefunky at 9:32 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by gottabefunky at 9:32 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
The four chicks I've been raising since May have been picked off one by one over the last week by a series of hawks. Several times I've seen the bastards circling over my field so I march outside and look sternly at them, for which I've been rewarded by screaming hawk fly-bys (I don't speak bird, but it was pretty clear those birds were pissed).
The remaining chick is locked in the coop until I can get her a new home; the plan is to raise a deer fence and inside it, create a covered chicken run to thwart hawks.
Still, as pissed off as I am about the loss of my flock, I've been amazed at how stealthy and coordinated the attacks were, and at how entitled the hawks became - they get really close to me now, trying to intimidate me. Well, hawks, I'm older, and I have better insurance.
posted by annathea at 9:36 PM on August 1, 2016 [21 favorites]
The remaining chick is locked in the coop until I can get her a new home; the plan is to raise a deer fence and inside it, create a covered chicken run to thwart hawks.
Still, as pissed off as I am about the loss of my flock, I've been amazed at how stealthy and coordinated the attacks were, and at how entitled the hawks became - they get really close to me now, trying to intimidate me. Well, hawks, I'm older, and I have better insurance.
posted by annathea at 9:36 PM on August 1, 2016 [21 favorites]
Lol. Nice prototype eagle you've got there, America :P
Seriously though I feel super-sad about this whole situation. Poor little osprey babies.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:48 PM on August 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
Seriously though I feel super-sad about this whole situation. Poor little osprey babies.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:48 PM on August 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
Is the Osprey on the right playing dead or did it get injured? It seemed to lie down before the eagle got there but then it just stayed down so... I'm not sure.
posted by GuyZero at 9:57 PM on August 1, 2016
posted by GuyZero at 9:57 PM on August 1, 2016
Until they invent smell-o-vision the Walrus Cam will only give a fraction of the walrus experience.
posted by GuyZero at 9:59 PM on August 1, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 9:59 PM on August 1, 2016 [5 favorites]
Several times I've seen the bastards circling over my field so I march outside and look sternly at them, for which I've been rewarded by screaming hawk fly-bys (I don't speak bird, but it was pretty clear those birds were pissed).
posted by annathea at 11:36 PM on August 1
I have no idea if you're sufficiently rural enough or not, but it sounds like you need to do what my late grandmother was known to do when she would hear the chickens in the coop freaking out because a hawk was circling above. Go quickly grab a loaded 12 gauge shotgun, and blast the lazy bastard out of the sky.
Just make sure there are no game wardens or wildlife officers around. AFAIK, she never got caught. And she had been raised as a "city" girl. I never met her, but I'm still very proud of her.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 10:22 PM on August 1, 2016
posted by annathea at 11:36 PM on August 1
I have no idea if you're sufficiently rural enough or not, but it sounds like you need to do what my late grandmother was known to do when she would hear the chickens in the coop freaking out because a hawk was circling above. Go quickly grab a loaded 12 gauge shotgun, and blast the lazy bastard out of the sky.
Just make sure there are no game wardens or wildlife officers around. AFAIK, she never got caught. And she had been raised as a "city" girl. I never met her, but I'm still very proud of her.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 10:22 PM on August 1, 2016
Your grandmother sounds badass, but, uh, I'm not sure that's great advice...
posted by teponaztli at 10:36 PM on August 1, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by teponaztli at 10:36 PM on August 1, 2016 [5 favorites]
Is the Osprey on the right playing dead or did it get injured? It seemed to lie down before the eagle got there but then it just stayed down so... I'm not sure.
The one on the right ducked and covered; it's been up and about the nest since. Morning will likely tell whether the other fledgling, the one that jumped out right before the eagle swooped in, survived.
posted by stargell at 10:43 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
The one on the right ducked and covered; it's been up and about the nest since. Morning will likely tell whether the other fledgling, the one that jumped out right before the eagle swooped in, survived.
posted by stargell at 10:43 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, let's not advocate killing wild animals just because they're doing what wild animals do. We moved into their habitat, we can come up with better solutions than "blasting them out of the sky."
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:44 PM on August 1, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:44 PM on August 1, 2016 [10 favorites]
... the rising eagle population
This is a story we started talking about on the tour boats up here six or seven years ago.
posted by LeLiLo at 10:46 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is a story we started talking about on the tour boats up here six or seven years ago.
posted by LeLiLo at 10:46 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
> This reminded me of a TAL story about another osprey cam with dedicated watchers that eventually saw the mother osprey attacking and neglecting her young. Viewers demanded that the camera owner intervene in that one of too.
Yeah, people were really, really upset. I get it. But still.
Balds mug the shit out of ospreys and steal their fish all the time. Predators gonna predate. And thanks to conservation efforts (clean water, fewer pesticides, better habitat management), we have them around to do so.
> Just make sure there are no game wardens or wildlife officers around. AFAIK, she never got caught. And she had been raised as a "city" girl. I never met her, but I'm still very proud of her.
Yeah, but...
So Hawk Mountain in PA is one of the premier hawkwatching sites in North America. It used to be one of the premier "shoot shit out of the sky for sport and bounty" sites. It changed because a woman leased the property and hired caretakers, and the wife of the married caretaker couple literally faced down at gunpoint hunters who wanted to go up the road to shoot migrating hawks. Now you (any of you!) can go up there during migration season and see literally thousands of migrating birds of prey fly south. If you can, do it.
posted by rtha at 10:49 PM on August 1, 2016 [18 favorites]
Yeah, people were really, really upset. I get it. But still.
Balds mug the shit out of ospreys and steal their fish all the time. Predators gonna predate. And thanks to conservation efforts (clean water, fewer pesticides, better habitat management), we have them around to do so.
> Just make sure there are no game wardens or wildlife officers around. AFAIK, she never got caught. And she had been raised as a "city" girl. I never met her, but I'm still very proud of her.
Yeah, but...
So Hawk Mountain in PA is one of the premier hawkwatching sites in North America. It used to be one of the premier "shoot shit out of the sky for sport and bounty" sites. It changed because a woman leased the property and hired caretakers, and the wife of the married caretaker couple literally faced down at gunpoint hunters who wanted to go up the road to shoot migrating hawks. Now you (any of you!) can go up there during migration season and see literally thousands of migrating birds of prey fly south. If you can, do it.
posted by rtha at 10:49 PM on August 1, 2016 [18 favorites]
We have eight* Buff Orpington chickens, and there are 2 pair of red tailed hawks out back.
The hens are a year old and at their peak production. They were $2.75 a chick last April. I buy a bag of layer pellets every 3-4 weeks, feed table scraps, and they free range.
I have an investment in the chickens, but my heart lifts when the hawks soar overhead.
*Started with 15 pullets. Gave two hens and the one that turned out to be a rooster to the neighbors. One took to flying over the fence and got hit by a car. The other three were victims of two different dogs--both labs. My red heeler-dingo cross doesn't mess with the chickens. Go figure. The heeler barks at the hawks if they land on the fence. And the crows. And magpies. And quail.
posted by BlueHorse at 11:08 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
The hens are a year old and at their peak production. They were $2.75 a chick last April. I buy a bag of layer pellets every 3-4 weeks, feed table scraps, and they free range.
I have an investment in the chickens, but my heart lifts when the hawks soar overhead.
*Started with 15 pullets. Gave two hens and the one that turned out to be a rooster to the neighbors. One took to flying over the fence and got hit by a car. The other three were victims of two different dogs--both labs. My red heeler-dingo cross doesn't mess with the chickens. Go figure. The heeler barks at the hawks if they land on the fence. And the crows. And magpies. And quail.
posted by BlueHorse at 11:08 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
OK, I want to make clear that I'm not a "kill anything non-human that competes with humans" type of person. I was merely relaying something that my mother passed down to her children about her mother.
I agree that hawks and other birds of prey are a necessary and vital part of nature. The activities I mentioned about my late grandma occurred in the depths of the depression of the 1930s. That may not make her actions right, but when you're afraid that you may not be able to feed your family, attitudes can change. Hell, back then they still had county bounties on any dead wolves you could produce. And this was in northern IL, not even a western state. I'm not saying it's right or that we should go back to that line of thought.
I was just attempting to relate a story that I found rather strange and amusing in a slightly morbid way when viewed through the viewpoint of today. Don't shoot hawks, people.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 11:15 PM on August 1, 2016 [9 favorites]
I agree that hawks and other birds of prey are a necessary and vital part of nature. The activities I mentioned about my late grandma occurred in the depths of the depression of the 1930s. That may not make her actions right, but when you're afraid that you may not be able to feed your family, attitudes can change. Hell, back then they still had county bounties on any dead wolves you could produce. And this was in northern IL, not even a western state. I'm not saying it's right or that we should go back to that line of thought.
I was just attempting to relate a story that I found rather strange and amusing in a slightly morbid way when viewed through the viewpoint of today. Don't shoot hawks, people.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 11:15 PM on August 1, 2016 [9 favorites]
Now you (any of you!) can go up there during migration season and see literally thousands of migrating birds of prey fly south. If you can, do it.
That sounds super cool! Are they mostly red tailed hawks?
On the subject of birding, I'm starting to get to the point where I can identify stuff by tail feather, etc. I know they're not that uncommon, but I actually saw an osprey for the first time a weeks ago while driving near Richmond, CA. I was so excited that I called my mom, which was apparently hilarious to my partner (the teasing continues to this day, although that's probably because of my similar excitement at seeing a Cooper's hawk in Marin on Saturday). I've spotted a few osprey nests since then, some with what appeared to be fledglings.
Anyway, because of all this I feel an embarrassing sort of affinity for ospreys now. Hope the fledgling made it! I hope the fact that they didn't find it on the ground is a good sign.
posted by teponaztli at 11:19 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
That sounds super cool! Are they mostly red tailed hawks?
On the subject of birding, I'm starting to get to the point where I can identify stuff by tail feather, etc. I know they're not that uncommon, but I actually saw an osprey for the first time a weeks ago while driving near Richmond, CA. I was so excited that I called my mom, which was apparently hilarious to my partner (the teasing continues to this day, although that's probably because of my similar excitement at seeing a Cooper's hawk in Marin on Saturday). I've spotted a few osprey nests since then, some with what appeared to be fledglings.
Anyway, because of all this I feel an embarrassing sort of affinity for ospreys now. Hope the fledgling made it! I hope the fact that they didn't find it on the ground is a good sign.
posted by teponaztli at 11:19 PM on August 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
six months later my visit to the goat pen at the Central Park Childrens' Zoo sparked a billy goat to mount a nanny
After a double take, TIL that "nanny" has other meanings than just "child care professional".
posted by jklaiho at 12:10 AM on August 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
After a double take, TIL that "nanny" has other meanings than just "child care professional".
posted by jklaiho at 12:10 AM on August 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
We have a fair number of bald eagles, ospreys and various hawks here on the island. Up the road is a "one of every critter" hobby farm, with a completely fenced in coop/feed yard with various fowl in it. Normally it's a raucous place.
One day on our walk it was eerily silent as we approached said farm, so we knew something was up. And silent for good reason: In the bare branches of the late winter trees lining the south side of that property were parked three juvenile bald eagles, which are still damn big birds, coveting a nice chicken lunch.
(Every bird in the enclosure was under the coop, absolutely still and silent.)
posted by maxwelton at 12:54 AM on August 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
One day on our walk it was eerily silent as we approached said farm, so we knew something was up. And silent for good reason: In the bare branches of the late winter trees lining the south side of that property were parked three juvenile bald eagles, which are still damn big birds, coveting a nice chicken lunch.
(Every bird in the enclosure was under the coop, absolutely still and silent.)
posted by maxwelton at 12:54 AM on August 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
We moved into their habitat, we can come up with better solutions than "blasting them out of the sky."
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:44 AM on August 2
Fair enough, and I can understand your position, but, if I may play devil's advocate here, how do you differentiate habitat for humans from habitat that is forbidden by humans? I realize habitat loss is a major contributor to the demise of many animal species, and I think that should be addressed somehow, but you seem to be making the case that there is a clear boundary between the areas where humans can live and where they're prohibited. That idea simply doesn't compute in the real world.
What, exactly, are you proposing, and how do you ever hope to achieve it? Honestly.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 1:08 AM on August 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:44 AM on August 2
Fair enough, and I can understand your position, but, if I may play devil's advocate here, how do you differentiate habitat for humans from habitat that is forbidden by humans? I realize habitat loss is a major contributor to the demise of many animal species, and I think that should be addressed somehow, but you seem to be making the case that there is a clear boundary between the areas where humans can live and where they're prohibited. That idea simply doesn't compute in the real world.
What, exactly, are you proposing, and how do you ever hope to achieve it? Honestly.
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 1:08 AM on August 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
turbid dahlia: "Lol. Nice prototype eagle you've got there, America :P"Indeed.
posted by brokkr at 1:42 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
We moved into their habitat, we can come up with better solutions than "blasting them out of the sky."
Could, but a individual scale it works fine and there's nothing wrong with protecting your food source from other animals.
But yeah, a wire roof (to let sun in) over a pen would probably be best to avoid that situation.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:38 AM on August 2, 2016
Could, but a individual scale it works fine and there's nothing wrong with protecting your food source from other animals.
But yeah, a wire roof (to let sun in) over a pen would probably be best to avoid that situation.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:38 AM on August 2, 2016
teponaztli, since you are in the Bay Area, I would recommend checking out Hawk Hill in the Marin Headlands, during the fall raptor migration, where you can see as many as 19 species of migrating raptors. For even more bird nerdery, you can head out to the Palomarin Field Station at the south end of Point Reyes, where you can see mist netting and banding in action.
posted by rockindata at 4:20 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by rockindata at 4:20 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Where I live there are lots of ospreys and quite a few eagles (though they tend to migrate north) and the two species compete whenever there is something to compete about. Eagles will dive bomb an osprey carrying a fish until it drops it, then fly underneath and (I swear this is true) turn upside down to catch the fish in their talons. People who get upset about this stuff -- osprey killed by eagles, domestic cats killed by cougars, fluffy bunnies and cute mice eaten by owls, snakes, coyotes, or whatever else -- need to get a grip. "Nature" is not a big zoo set out for your entertainment. And, just relating to another post, human beings are part of the ever-changing ecology. To think that some parts of the environment can be separated from others and provide a habitat for specific creatures only, is just silly.
posted by CCBC at 4:41 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by CCBC at 4:41 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
As a lover of the natural world, I am pretty angry about the direction this thread has taken, but if rtha can stay cool despite her name, I can, too. If you are sincerely worried about protecting chickens from hawks, there are actually a number of easily googleable options, none of which involve the violation of federal law.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:09 AM on August 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 5:09 AM on August 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
Back to the actual topic of the post, one of my friends is an avid watcher of the peregrine nest on the University of Pittsburgh's Cathedral of Learning. She got to watch mama peregrine feed some of her hatchlings to the other.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:10 AM on August 2, 2016
posted by hydropsyche at 5:10 AM on August 2, 2016
Heh, I was just thinking about the Pitt peregrines, too, hydropsyche - four eggs were laid, three of which ultimately ended up getting fed to the first to hatch. Apparently very unusual behavior for falcons, whose chicks (from what I read while all this was going on, at least) don't actually compete with each other. Moreover, the Pitt campus is silly with pigeons, sparrows, and robins, so it didn't seem to be a matter of food scarcity. It was an unusual year for the nest, though, with a new female and then the resident male being killed just as the eggs were being laid.
Reading people's comments about the situation alternately made me laugh and grossed me out. Attitudes were on display that would have been foul when used against a human mother, let alone some weird anthropomorphized understanding of a falcon. If you feel it's important that people know you think a bird is "psycho" and should be killed, maybe you don't really need to be commenting after all.
posted by DingoMutt at 5:27 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Reading people's comments about the situation alternately made me laugh and grossed me out. Attitudes were on display that would have been foul when used against a human mother, let alone some weird anthropomorphized understanding of a falcon. If you feel it's important that people know you think a bird is "psycho" and should be killed, maybe you don't really need to be commenting after all.
posted by DingoMutt at 5:27 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Saw my cat looking up into the trees overhanging the deck with that "I see dinner" look on her face. I looked up and an owl was regarding her the same way.
posted by thelonius at 5:31 AM on August 2, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 5:31 AM on August 2, 2016 [9 favorites]
> That sounds super cool! Are they mostly red tailed hawks?
Mostly broad-winged hawks, which are kind of like shrinky-dinked redtails with fewer markings. We see a few over Hawk Hill in Marin every season but nothing like Hawk Mountain's numbers because broadies are more of an Eastern species.
> but, if I may play devil's advocate here,
Dude, why? The devil don't need more lawyers.
posted by rtha at 5:36 AM on August 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
Mostly broad-winged hawks, which are kind of like shrinky-dinked redtails with fewer markings. We see a few over Hawk Hill in Marin every season but nothing like Hawk Mountain's numbers because broadies are more of an Eastern species.
> but, if I may play devil's advocate here,
Dude, why? The devil don't need more lawyers.
posted by rtha at 5:36 AM on August 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
(I can't remember whether or not I've shared this story before, so if I have I apologize!)
Diana monkeys are seasonal breeders - they mate in April-May, and give birth in October-November. Diana monkeys typically only have one adult male per group. Sometimes, a solitary younger male will fight an older resident male and kick him out of the group. Sometimes, if there are nursing infants in a group when a new male arrives, the new male will kill them. This brings females back into estrous.
So it's October 13 and I arrive at my Diana monkey group, and we hear the unmistakable sound of a shrieking infant Diana monkey! I'm thrilled because I want to see how pregnancy and lactation affect stress, so this is great!!! About 20 minutes after I get there, we notice that the male has a tail which is broken in a different place than Fred's (the resident male), and it's bleeding. About 5 minutes after this, we witness an impressive chase with lots of alarm calling and noise and branch breaking, and suddenly the baby falls to the ground and starts full-out screaming. I'm torn between incredible excitement - Did I just witness an infanticide attempt after a male transfer?!? - and really wanting to save this baby. Females descend to the ground towards the baby, and this stranger male chases them up back into the canopy.
This continues for about 45 minutes, and the baby is screaming and screaming and screaming. My field assistants and I are trying to decide what to do if the group moves - we don't want to mess with nature, but the most likely thing that would happen to that baby if it stays alone on the ground is that it will be eaten alive by ants, and that is a pretty terrible fate.
All of a sudden, the females - who have been vocalizing nearly continuously - fall silent and ascend to the main canopy where they sit, immobile. We can't figure out what's going on, and then Ferdinand points about 10 feet from where we're sitting on a fallen log. There is a large male chimpanzee, piloerect, whose appeared silently. He heads over to the baby Diana monkey and picks it up, and I'm pretty sure it's about to get eaten, but instead the chimpanzee runs for about 100 feet, dragging it behind him by the ankle, and then tosses it against the buttress of a tree. I was sure that the baby was dead, but then it started shrieking again. FINALLY its mother ran down and grabbed it, where it started nursing and clung to her stomach for the rest of the day. The next day when we arrived at the group, its mother wasn't carrying it. On the bright side - it probably wasn't eaten alive by ants! Its mother went into estrous that spring - a full year earlier than she would have if the baby survived - and gave birth the following October to a baby who presumably was fathered by the new male.
posted by ChuraChura at 5:38 AM on August 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
Diana monkeys are seasonal breeders - they mate in April-May, and give birth in October-November. Diana monkeys typically only have one adult male per group. Sometimes, a solitary younger male will fight an older resident male and kick him out of the group. Sometimes, if there are nursing infants in a group when a new male arrives, the new male will kill them. This brings females back into estrous.
So it's October 13 and I arrive at my Diana monkey group, and we hear the unmistakable sound of a shrieking infant Diana monkey! I'm thrilled because I want to see how pregnancy and lactation affect stress, so this is great!!! About 20 minutes after I get there, we notice that the male has a tail which is broken in a different place than Fred's (the resident male), and it's bleeding. About 5 minutes after this, we witness an impressive chase with lots of alarm calling and noise and branch breaking, and suddenly the baby falls to the ground and starts full-out screaming. I'm torn between incredible excitement - Did I just witness an infanticide attempt after a male transfer?!? - and really wanting to save this baby. Females descend to the ground towards the baby, and this stranger male chases them up back into the canopy.
This continues for about 45 minutes, and the baby is screaming and screaming and screaming. My field assistants and I are trying to decide what to do if the group moves - we don't want to mess with nature, but the most likely thing that would happen to that baby if it stays alone on the ground is that it will be eaten alive by ants, and that is a pretty terrible fate.
All of a sudden, the females - who have been vocalizing nearly continuously - fall silent and ascend to the main canopy where they sit, immobile. We can't figure out what's going on, and then Ferdinand points about 10 feet from where we're sitting on a fallen log. There is a large male chimpanzee, piloerect, whose appeared silently. He heads over to the baby Diana monkey and picks it up, and I'm pretty sure it's about to get eaten, but instead the chimpanzee runs for about 100 feet, dragging it behind him by the ankle, and then tosses it against the buttress of a tree. I was sure that the baby was dead, but then it started shrieking again. FINALLY its mother ran down and grabbed it, where it started nursing and clung to her stomach for the rest of the day. The next day when we arrived at the group, its mother wasn't carrying it. On the bright side - it probably wasn't eaten alive by ants! Its mother went into estrous that spring - a full year earlier than she would have if the baby survived - and gave birth the following October to a baby who presumably was fathered by the new male.
posted by ChuraChura at 5:38 AM on August 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
Also, fuck Orcas.
The area of Maine I visit sometimes is positively lousy with birds of all kinds, including bald eagles. Once, I was walking down by the bay when one of them soared past dragging some kind of water bird in its talons.
Majestic as fuck. (Until they open their beaks.)
posted by tobascodagama at 6:03 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
The area of Maine I visit sometimes is positively lousy with birds of all kinds, including bald eagles. Once, I was walking down by the bay when one of them soared past dragging some kind of water bird in its talons.
Majestic as fuck. (Until they open their beaks.)
posted by tobascodagama at 6:03 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
People who get upset about this stuff -- osprey killed by eagles, domestic cats killed by cougars, fluffy bunnies and cute mice eaten by owls, snakes, coyotes, or whatever else -- need to get a grip.
Pretty sure sensitivity to suffering and death is not in itself a bad thing. You can do dumb things prompted by it, sure, but a visceral reaction to a baby monkey screaming abandoned on a jungle floor? Not ridiculous.
posted by praemunire at 6:44 AM on August 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
Pretty sure sensitivity to suffering and death is not in itself a bad thing. You can do dumb things prompted by it, sure, but a visceral reaction to a baby monkey screaming abandoned on a jungle floor? Not ridiculous.
posted by praemunire at 6:44 AM on August 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
We live in suburban Austin, TX, with a greenbelt behind our house. When our chihuahua-mix was a puppy, we had a red-tailed hawk hang out for several weeks in the tree overlooking our yard and one time, a very large owl swooped our puppy but decided for some unknown reason not to attack. She survived to become large enough to no longer be of interest to local raptors. Thankfully, owls and red-tailed hawks are the largest we have.
posted by tippiedog at 7:59 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tippiedog at 7:59 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Saw a bald eagle crossing 280 in the SF Bay Area the other day and almost crashed. Bald eagles? Here?
It turns out a couple showed up a few years ago and have been breeding.
posted by eye of newt at 8:57 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
It turns out a couple showed up a few years ago and have been breeding.
posted by eye of newt at 8:57 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Pretty sure sensitivity to suffering and death is not in itself a bad thing.
Being "sensitive" to a dead mouse (or osprey) but not to a starving eagle is irrational and stupid. Red in tooth and claw and all that shit.
My partner is a rehabilitator and got a call once from a woman who "rescued" a baby sparrow. By fighting off a blue jay who was attempting to eat it. The stupid baby was going to die either way, but by stepping in she denied a predator its well-earned meal. That's not sensitivity, that's ignorance.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:22 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Being "sensitive" to a dead mouse (or osprey) but not to a starving eagle is irrational and stupid. Red in tooth and claw and all that shit.
My partner is a rehabilitator and got a call once from a woman who "rescued" a baby sparrow. By fighting off a blue jay who was attempting to eat it. The stupid baby was going to die either way, but by stepping in she denied a predator its well-earned meal. That's not sensitivity, that's ignorance.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:22 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
irrational
Okay.
and stupid
Maybe dial it back a bit?
posted by reprise the theme song and roll the credits at 9:57 AM on August 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
Okay.
and stupid
Maybe dial it back a bit?
posted by reprise the theme song and roll the credits at 9:57 AM on August 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
Bald eagles are nesting in a number of areas around the Bay Area. Golden eagles, too. There are Goldens nesting up in American Canyon and I saw one flying over I 80 just last week.
Once you start looking for them, raptors are everywhere. I see hawks pretty much every day, now that I know to look for them. Two red-tails yesterday. Last Thursday two peregrine falcons over downtown Oakland, one perched on City Hall.
posted by gingerbeer at 9:59 AM on August 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Once you start looking for them, raptors are everywhere. I see hawks pretty much every day, now that I know to look for them. Two red-tails yesterday. Last Thursday two peregrine falcons over downtown Oakland, one perched on City Hall.
posted by gingerbeer at 9:59 AM on August 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also, fuck Orcas.
Orcas gotta orc.
This video does put me in mind of the annual county show I went to a few years ago. They had a local falconry place showing some of their birds, which meant a selection of owls, eagles etc, tethered to the perches they were sitting on, only 2-3' high. I remember one bird, I think maybe a sea eagle, looking around when a toddler (with parents present) came to the front of the crowd, the bird's eyeline flicked straight to her and it watched her unwaveringly despite all that was going on around it. It was pretty unnerving.
posted by biffa at 10:54 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Orcas gotta orc.
This video does put me in mind of the annual county show I went to a few years ago. They had a local falconry place showing some of their birds, which meant a selection of owls, eagles etc, tethered to the perches they were sitting on, only 2-3' high. I remember one bird, I think maybe a sea eagle, looking around when a toddler (with parents present) came to the front of the crowd, the bird's eyeline flicked straight to her and it watched her unwaveringly despite all that was going on around it. It was pretty unnerving.
posted by biffa at 10:54 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
My partner is a rehabilitator and got a call once from a woman who "rescued" a baby sparrow. By fighting off a blue jay who was attempting to eat it. The stupid baby was going to die either way, but by stepping in she denied a predator its well-earned meal. That's not sensitivity, that's ignorance.
Well, I guess you've made your statement against Big Baby Sparrow.
posted by praemunire at 10:56 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, I guess you've made your statement against Big Baby Sparrow.
posted by praemunire at 10:56 AM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
This isn't an either-or situation, people. There's nothing wrong with liking cute baby animals, and getting choked up when you see one taken down by a predator, especially if it's one you have an emotional or economic interest in. It's a human reaction. Likewise, it's fine to recognize that predators are going to predate, and cute baby animals are on the menu. Protect your prey as best you and don't complain when the predators do their thing. Everyone's gotta eat.
posted by lhauser at 11:03 AM on August 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by lhauser at 11:03 AM on August 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
And I mean, I'm not all that sure I want to concede that it's "irrational" to feel less sad at the loss of a meal than the loss of a young life
posted by reprise the theme song and roll the credits at 11:15 AM on August 2, 2016
posted by reprise the theme song and roll the credits at 11:15 AM on August 2, 2016
There are Goldens nesting up in American Canyon and I saw one flying over I 80 just last week.
Oh cool, I'm still hoping to spot a golden eagle one of these days. I'm still at the point where I get super excited if I see an American kestrel, so an eagle would blow my mind.
posted by teponaztli at 11:36 AM on August 2, 2016
Oh cool, I'm still hoping to spot a golden eagle one of these days. I'm still at the point where I get super excited if I see an American kestrel, so an eagle would blow my mind.
posted by teponaztli at 11:36 AM on August 2, 2016
> Saw a bald eagle crossing 280 in the SF Bay Area the other day and almost crashed. Bald eagles? Here?
There's been a pair nesting at Crystal Springs Reservoir for the last few years. I work just off 280 and saw an adult bald fly over my office a couple months ago! (And every day down here I hear the local white-tailed kites chirping, the the juvenile redtails whining for snacks, and the red-shouldered hawks have finally stopped being so freaking noisy!)
posted by rtha at 12:22 PM on August 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
There's been a pair nesting at Crystal Springs Reservoir for the last few years. I work just off 280 and saw an adult bald fly over my office a couple months ago! (And every day down here I hear the local white-tailed kites chirping, the the juvenile redtails whining for snacks, and the red-shouldered hawks have finally stopped being so freaking noisy!)
posted by rtha at 12:22 PM on August 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
I was cruising across this lake in a boat once and looked over to see this big ol' osprey winging his way back to shore with a super-handsome brown trout in his talons about head height headed in our same general direction. The fish seemed pretty docile but I wondered if he could get free with a great thrash and spend the rest of his days being disbelieved by his grandfishren: "Gramps, there's no way fish can fly all the way across a lake." There was something majestic about that fish...
posted by Ogre Lawless at 2:15 PM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Ogre Lawless at 2:15 PM on August 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
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I had no idea eagles went after other big birds like that.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:41 PM on August 1, 2016