“The world’s first organic universal bitter blocker”
August 22, 2016 12:31 PM Subscribe
In its Aurora, Colorado production facility, MycoTechnology is fermenting mycelia, later blast-drying them into an odorless, tasteless powder called ClearTaste—what marketing manager Hahn would call “the world’s first organic universal bitter blocker.” Not a black coffee drinker? You could be with just a tiny sprinkle of the stuff. It works on the molecular level, bonding to taste receptors on your tongue and blocking signals to your brain that translate to perceiving bitterness. Such a substance could have big implications for the health of the United States’ sugar-addicted society. But like all food additives, it has its mysteries—and no one is sure exactly what your body does with it once it’s inside. (SLWired)
What could possibly go wrong?
posted by kokaku at 12:36 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 12:36 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
I Can't Believe It's Not Bitter®
posted by Kabanos at 12:37 PM on August 22, 2016 [90 favorites]
posted by Kabanos at 12:37 PM on August 22, 2016 [90 favorites]
If you don't like black coffee... why wouldn't you just not drink black coffee?
posted by bradbane at 12:38 PM on August 22, 2016 [34 favorites]
posted by bradbane at 12:38 PM on August 22, 2016 [34 favorites]
So if you combine this with Miracle Fruit will everything taste like dessert?
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:38 PM on August 22, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:38 PM on August 22, 2016 [22 favorites]
More like everything tasting like chicken, I'd imagine.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:39 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:39 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
If you don't like black coffee... why wouldn't you just not drink black coffee?
I ask a similar question every time we have a thread about how much MetaFilter hates IPAs.
posted by Lutoslawski at 12:40 PM on August 22, 2016 [25 favorites]
I ask a similar question every time we have a thread about how much MetaFilter hates IPAs.
posted by Lutoslawski at 12:40 PM on August 22, 2016 [25 favorites]
Use only as directed. Not for use with defeat, pills to swallow, or the end.
posted by phunniemee at 12:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [43 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 12:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [43 favorites]
I'm a supertaster and this product intrigues me and I wish to subscribe to its newsletter.
(Seriously, I was the worst college student ever because the following things in any form make me absolutely retch: beer, coffee, cigarettes.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:43 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
(Seriously, I was the worst college student ever because the following things in any form make me absolutely retch: beer, coffee, cigarettes.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:43 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
Betty bought a better bitter blocker.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:44 PM on August 22, 2016 [28 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:44 PM on August 22, 2016 [28 favorites]
On the last day of summer,
ten hours before fall . . .
. . . my grandfather took me
out to the Wall.
For a while he stood silent.
Then finally he said,
with a very bad shake
of his very old head,
"As you know, on this side of the Wall
we are Yooks.
On the far other side of this Wall
live the Zooks."
Then my grandfather said,
"It's high time that you knew
of the terribly horrible thing that Zooks do.
In every Zook house and in every Zook block
every Zook eats his bread
with the bitter part blocked!"
-Chapter 1, The Bitter Blocker Battle Book
posted by leotrotsky at 12:47 PM on August 22, 2016 [28 favorites]
ten hours before fall . . .
. . . my grandfather took me
out to the Wall.
For a while he stood silent.
Then finally he said,
with a very bad shake
of his very old head,
"As you know, on this side of the Wall
we are Yooks.
On the far other side of this Wall
live the Zooks."
Then my grandfather said,
"It's high time that you knew
of the terribly horrible thing that Zooks do.
In every Zook house and in every Zook block
every Zook eats his bread
with the bitter part blocked!"
-Chapter 1, The Bitter Blocker Battle Book
posted by leotrotsky at 12:47 PM on August 22, 2016 [28 favorites]
In 2015, researchers from Belgium saw substantial changes in mice when bitter substances were put directly into their stomachs. Obese mice lost a significant amount of weight over the course of a month, while normal mice ate less and their stomachs emptied slower. When scientists repeated the experiment in humans, subjects who got the bitter treatment felt satiated earlier and absorbed fewer calories. In each experiment, it was the T2Rs that mediated the observed changes. Scientists have hypothesized that blocking the receptors’ ability to send signals could have direct effects on gut function.
But the Belgian bitter blocker's better belly-wise.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:47 PM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
But the Belgian bitter blocker's better belly-wise.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:47 PM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
why wouldn't you just not drink black coffee?
I ask a similar question every time we have a thread about how much MetaFilter hates IPAs.
Alternatively, just add cream and sugar to your IPA and stir.
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:48 PM on August 22, 2016 [26 favorites]
I ask a similar question every time we have a thread about how much MetaFilter hates IPAs.
Alternatively, just add cream and sugar to your IPA and stir.
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:48 PM on August 22, 2016 [26 favorites]
Alternatively, just add cream and sugar to your IPA and stir.
You mean like a Milk Stout?
posted by leotrotsky at 12:49 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
You mean like a Milk Stout?
posted by leotrotsky at 12:49 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
(More seriously, coffee made properly might still have a touch of bitterness, but not the type nor degree that some of the more extravagant IPAs do.)
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:50 PM on August 22, 2016
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:50 PM on August 22, 2016
Alternately, how about not everything should have to be palatable to toddlers? Half the reason I've ended up cooking almost everything from scratch lately is that prepared foods just keep getting blander and sweeter and mushier to the point that they're just gross.
If you people, whoever you are, start messing with my IPAs, so help me.
posted by ernielundquist at 12:53 PM on August 22, 2016 [34 favorites]
If you people, whoever you are, start messing with my IPAs, so help me.
posted by ernielundquist at 12:53 PM on August 22, 2016 [34 favorites]
See also:
Miracle fruit makes everything taste sweet, so you can bite into raw lemons or onions, and they'll be delicious. Buy tablets here!
Gymnema has the opposite effect – it completely suppresses your ability to taste sweetness, so you can taste the underlying flavors in foods (ice cream, fruit, etc.)
On non-preview: what everyone else said.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 12:54 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
Miracle fruit makes everything taste sweet, so you can bite into raw lemons or onions, and they'll be delicious. Buy tablets here!
Gymnema has the opposite effect – it completely suppresses your ability to taste sweetness, so you can taste the underlying flavors in foods (ice cream, fruit, etc.)
On non-preview: what everyone else said.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 12:54 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
If this could make unripe blueberries palatable to me I could actually eat blueberries.
posted by waitingtoderail at 12:59 PM on August 22, 2016
posted by waitingtoderail at 12:59 PM on August 22, 2016
Gin and tonic. My cold, dead hands. Etc.
(Yes, I sucked on the lime after I finished the glass of G&T this weekend. It was rich and sweet until it was suddenly, painfully sour. I made a face. I made noises. Then I sucked the lime again. I am told that this was an incredibly amusing sight. I had fun.)
posted by maudlin at 12:59 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
(Yes, I sucked on the lime after I finished the glass of G&T this weekend. It was rich and sweet until it was suddenly, painfully sour. I made a face. I made noises. Then I sucked the lime again. I am told that this was an incredibly amusing sight. I had fun.)
posted by maudlin at 12:59 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Alternatively, just add cream and sugar to your IPA and stir.
As a homebrewer I could not help but google this (surely someone has added lactose to an IPA) and of course some people have. Some reviews of a commercial one and some discussion that ranges from "pretty good if you add fruit" to "this is an abomination".
Now I kind of want to try it...
posted by bradbane at 1:00 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
As a homebrewer I could not help but google this (surely someone has added lactose to an IPA) and of course some people have. Some reviews of a commercial one and some discussion that ranges from "pretty good if you add fruit" to "this is an abomination".
Now I kind of want to try it...
posted by bradbane at 1:00 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Alternately, how about not everything should have to be palatable to toddlers?
Peeve button: direct hit.
Listen, bitterness does not automatically equal a sophisticated pallet, okay? Some people just, genetically, are predisposed to find bitter foods incredibly awful. I enjoy many fine comestibles, have eaten in Michelin starred restaurants, and am--if I do say so--one hell of a cook. But my tongue absolutely recoils from overly bitter foods such as dark chocolate, hops, coffee, and black tea (tea with milk and sugar, on the other hand, is my ambrosia). In nature, poisonous plants are often quite bitter and humans evolved a certain distaste for bitterness. I could just as easily fault people who love bitter foods for having such dulled pallets that bitter-tasting things don't turn them off as they naturally should, and are you sure you're actually tasting the full spectrum of the other flavors, in that case? But I don't say that because flavor preferences are a personal, individual thing that should be respected.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:05 PM on August 22, 2016 [49 favorites]
Peeve button: direct hit.
Listen, bitterness does not automatically equal a sophisticated pallet, okay? Some people just, genetically, are predisposed to find bitter foods incredibly awful. I enjoy many fine comestibles, have eaten in Michelin starred restaurants, and am--if I do say so--one hell of a cook. But my tongue absolutely recoils from overly bitter foods such as dark chocolate, hops, coffee, and black tea (tea with milk and sugar, on the other hand, is my ambrosia). In nature, poisonous plants are often quite bitter and humans evolved a certain distaste for bitterness. I could just as easily fault people who love bitter foods for having such dulled pallets that bitter-tasting things don't turn them off as they naturally should, and are you sure you're actually tasting the full spectrum of the other flavors, in that case? But I don't say that because flavor preferences are a personal, individual thing that should be respected.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:05 PM on August 22, 2016 [49 favorites]
I ask a similar question every time we have a thread about how much MetaFilter hates IPAs.
I like IPAs. I like a little hoppyness. But I live in the Bay Area. There are restaurants here that have nothing but super high IBU beers on the menu. There are supermarkets where the microbrew section is primarily made up of the same. To each their own. It's not about hating IPAs, it about hoping that this trend will die down soon.
posted by not_the_water at 1:09 PM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
I like IPAs. I like a little hoppyness. But I live in the Bay Area. There are restaurants here that have nothing but super high IBU beers on the menu. There are supermarkets where the microbrew section is primarily made up of the same. To each their own. It's not about hating IPAs, it about hoping that this trend will die down soon.
posted by not_the_water at 1:09 PM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
LOLOLOLOL This is the most bullshit "There's a reporter in the lab!" picture I've seen since that film crew recorded our intern balancing tubes for the centrifuge.
This is the biology equivalent of Stephen Colbert's keyboard typing.
posted by maryr at 1:11 PM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
This is the biology equivalent of Stephen Colbert's keyboard typing.
posted by maryr at 1:11 PM on August 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
I think we've seen how this will go.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 1:13 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 1:13 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
As a parent with a kid on the spectrum with eating issues, this could make things a little better for us. If I could get him to eat more greens and other vegetables he otherwise avoids because of the taste, that would be super. Or certain meds? I hope they do further research.
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 1:22 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 1:22 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
MycoTechnology is fermenting mycelia
Quibble: fermentation is the metabolic process of turning sugars into alcohols or acids and CO2. It's a little sad that Wired can't copyedit that into some more accurate like "MycoTechnology is culturing mycelia..."
posted by peeedro at 1:25 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Quibble: fermentation is the metabolic process of turning sugars into alcohols or acids and CO2. It's a little sad that Wired can't copyedit that into some more accurate like "MycoTechnology is culturing mycelia..."
posted by peeedro at 1:25 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
We came here from a dying world. We drift through the universe, from planet to planet, pushed on by the solar winds. We adapt and we survive. The function of life is survival.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:25 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:25 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I do know about supertasters, and I know they're not all toddlers. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people who are overly sensitive to bitterness to just avoid bitter foods rather than trying to neuter them.
Big food manufacturers are increasingly flattening the market, trying to appeal to the largest number of people possible with everything, to the point that there's a disturbing uniformity to most prepared foods. I have an aversion to sweetness in many contexts, but nobody's accommodating my tastes anymore. For a while there, the only non-boutique sliced bread I could get at my grocery store that wasn't sickly sweet was rye. Now, the rye bread has gotten overly sweet too. It's been ages since I've tried jarred spaghetti sauce or anything like that. They've been a lost cause since forever.
So sure, you might not have access to bitter beers and coffees and dark chocolates that appeal to you, but I can't even find sliced bread that doesn't repulse me anymore. You're pretty clearly on the winning side here.
posted by ernielundquist at 1:26 PM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]
Big food manufacturers are increasingly flattening the market, trying to appeal to the largest number of people possible with everything, to the point that there's a disturbing uniformity to most prepared foods. I have an aversion to sweetness in many contexts, but nobody's accommodating my tastes anymore. For a while there, the only non-boutique sliced bread I could get at my grocery store that wasn't sickly sweet was rye. Now, the rye bread has gotten overly sweet too. It's been ages since I've tried jarred spaghetti sauce or anything like that. They've been a lost cause since forever.
So sure, you might not have access to bitter beers and coffees and dark chocolates that appeal to you, but I can't even find sliced bread that doesn't repulse me anymore. You're pretty clearly on the winning side here.
posted by ernielundquist at 1:26 PM on August 22, 2016 [20 favorites]
LOLOLOLOL This is the most bullshit "There's a reporter in the lab!" picture I've seen
Now where have I seen this before? Hmm.... Scientist Looking at Flask.
Never Scientist Laughing Alone with Flask though...
posted by Kabanos at 1:26 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
Now where have I seen this before? Hmm.... Scientist Looking at Flask.
Never Scientist Laughing Alone with Flask though...
posted by Kabanos at 1:26 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
Do people eschew healthy diets because healthy foods taste bad, or because healthy foods are more expensive and require more effort to obtain and prepare?
As usual, the technocrats are solving the wrong problem.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
As usual, the technocrats are solving the wrong problem.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
I don't like overly-sweet foods either. Which is why I make my own pasta sauce (though actually the Trader Joe's Arrabiata sauce isn't bad) and buy Ezekial bread or go to a bakery (or bake my own).
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
So sure, you might not have access to bitter beers and coffees and dark chocolates that appeal to you, but I can't even find sliced bread that doesn't repulse me anymore. You're pretty clearly on the winning side here.
That's the damn truth. I'm a lover of bitter, spicy and tangy, but I'm not bothered by a sweet tooth. And I feel like everything right now is sweet.
posted by thivaia at 1:33 PM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
That's the damn truth. I'm a lover of bitter, spicy and tangy, but I'm not bothered by a sweet tooth. And I feel like everything right now is sweet.
posted by thivaia at 1:33 PM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
I don't know if they have the same effect on everyone, but century eggs change my sense of taste for about an hour, so that nearly every other type of food tastes like crap. The first time I had one I almost threw out half the food in my refrigerator because it all seemed to have mysteriously spoiled at the same time.
The discussion in the OP of this substance being put into products without any labeling inclines me to wonder whether you might have a similar problem. If we get a good handle on how these taste-altering effects work, maybe we'll see companies putting substances into their products targeted at causing their competitors' products taste like crap, or the products of the competitors to the owning food conglomerate.
Another thing I've run into with taste-altering properties is the spice Sichuan peppercorn. It's difficult to pin down exactly what it does but there are some artificially-sweetened soft drinks that taste much better to me once I've eaten something with the spice in it.
posted by XMLicious at 1:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
The discussion in the OP of this substance being put into products without any labeling inclines me to wonder whether you might have a similar problem. If we get a good handle on how these taste-altering effects work, maybe we'll see companies putting substances into their products targeted at causing their competitors' products taste like crap, or the products of the competitors to the owning food conglomerate.
Another thing I've run into with taste-altering properties is the spice Sichuan peppercorn. It's difficult to pin down exactly what it does but there are some artificially-sweetened soft drinks that taste much better to me once I've eaten something with the spice in it.
posted by XMLicious at 1:41 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Listen, bitterness does not automatically equal a sophisticated pallet, okay?
Now, the rye bread has gotten overly sweet too. It's been ages since I've tried jarred spaghetti sauce or anything like that.
My tolerance for sweetness (out of the context of dessert, and even then most desserts are best when paired with a nice dark coffee) has gone way down over the past decade or so. I don't know whether to chalk this up to mostly quitting soda, occasional dabbles in various forms of low-carb eating, aging, or a vast fructose laden conspiracy to put more sugar in everything.
I'm tempted to believe it's not that food is change so much around me, as I feel like the "sugar-in-place-of-flavor" thing hit its peak long before I noticed how much it bugs me.
Anyways, yes, tastes are personal. And yes, it's annoying when The Market changes its recipes on you. I've tried the "miracle berries" before and they are a cute gimmick, I hope this get's used as a way to cut down the amount of sugar in things that are already sweet (as opposed to taking the natural bitterness out of things).
Because Cynthia Graber and Nicola Twilley are wonderful gifts to the world, they have already recorded an episode of Gastropod about the science of bitterness for us all to enjoy (now won't that be sweet? or bitter? how about just tasty.)
posted by sparklemotion at 1:45 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Now, the rye bread has gotten overly sweet too. It's been ages since I've tried jarred spaghetti sauce or anything like that.
My tolerance for sweetness (out of the context of dessert, and even then most desserts are best when paired with a nice dark coffee) has gone way down over the past decade or so. I don't know whether to chalk this up to mostly quitting soda, occasional dabbles in various forms of low-carb eating, aging, or a vast fructose laden conspiracy to put more sugar in everything.
I'm tempted to believe it's not that food is change so much around me, as I feel like the "sugar-in-place-of-flavor" thing hit its peak long before I noticed how much it bugs me.
Anyways, yes, tastes are personal. And yes, it's annoying when The Market changes its recipes on you. I've tried the "miracle berries" before and they are a cute gimmick, I hope this get's used as a way to cut down the amount of sugar in things that are already sweet (as opposed to taking the natural bitterness out of things).
Because Cynthia Graber and Nicola Twilley are wonderful gifts to the world, they have already recorded an episode of Gastropod about the science of bitterness for us all to enjoy (now won't that be sweet? or bitter? how about just tasty.)
posted by sparklemotion at 1:45 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Just like ernielundquist, I find that unless I prepare the food myself, it will be awash with salt and sugar. My take on this is that sugar is used as a flavour extender. For example, in a chocolate cake the more sugar you can pack in, the less cocoa you need. And since cocoa is expensive then you make more profits. This stuff might be cheaper than sugar, maximising profits further. In savory foods, salt is the profit maximiser. Just a hint of flavouring like cheese, followed by a ton of salt. Salty foods are less filling which also boost profits.
posted by The Seeds of Autumn at 1:51 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by The Seeds of Autumn at 1:51 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
This reminds me of the effects of Gurmar, aka THE SUGAR DESTROYER (Gymnema Sylvestre), on one's ability to taste sweetness. Swish your mouth with some Gymnema extract and then try to eat a banana.
posted by Auden at 1:55 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Auden at 1:55 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
As a cocktail bartender, this fills me with dread.
The prospect of another generation learning to prefer uncomplex, overly sweet cocktails with no sense of balance is depressing. It'd be like the late 70s/early 80s all over again.
This is why the Piña Colada is such a despicable drink; all sweet & strong, no bitter, no sour, just a fucking alcoholic milkshake that lists off to one, proto-diabetic side.
Americans want dessert for breakfast, granola bars that taste like chocolate-dipped candy, and that's fine, I guess. To each their own.
But there are professionals out there not lining up to pay this inventor on the head & say "good job".
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 1:57 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
The prospect of another generation learning to prefer uncomplex, overly sweet cocktails with no sense of balance is depressing. It'd be like the late 70s/early 80s all over again.
This is why the Piña Colada is such a despicable drink; all sweet & strong, no bitter, no sour, just a fucking alcoholic milkshake that lists off to one, proto-diabetic side.
Americans want dessert for breakfast, granola bars that taste like chocolate-dipped candy, and that's fine, I guess. To each their own.
But there are professionals out there not lining up to pay this inventor on the head & say "good job".
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 1:57 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
There is sugar in EVERYdarnthing these days. I am a label reader, and it's unbelievable. I didn't avoid sugar in the past, but now I feel as if manufacturers are trying to feed me on sugar alone. What industry or historical farm failure are we shoring up?
Don't mind me, I like my coffee bitter.
posted by Peach at 1:57 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
Don't mind me, I like my coffee bitter.
posted by Peach at 1:57 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
I do know about supertasters, and I know they're not all toddlers. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people who are overly sensitive to bitterness to just avoid bitter foods rather than trying to neuter them.
OK, let me tell you how hard it is to do that. My partner and I tried a new Mongolian restaurant (traditional Mongolian food, not BBQ) near us for the first time last night, and I've been talking about it nonstop because it's not very strong flavored. Like, I don't know if I'm a super taster or not (my partner thinks it's more like an overstimulation thing since I react strongly to all kinds of stimulus), but it was such a relief to find something pretty low key. I mean, I can eat other stuff, so I'm not like, say, my friend's son who retches if he tastes anything stronger than plain boiled potato. But my favorite foods as a kid were always things like pasta with butter, because tomato sauce was too bitter and acidic. So it's kind of nice to not have to brace myself when I'm eating. Thank you, Mongolian cuisine! I had to stop myself from getting lunch there today.
This summer I've had a bunch of health problems, and among other things I have to avoid acidic food and spicy things. It is so incredibly hard to do that unless you're cooking everything from scratch, which sucks and means you can't ever go out. Everything is either spicy or acidic if you can't eat that stuff. And they won't tell you, or they'll be like "no it's mild," which means it's spicy but they don't think it's strong. I've asked people with me to taste stuff and see if it's spicy or acidic or bitter, or whatever. They can't taste it, but I take a bite and there it is, like, overwhelming my face.
And here's the thing: because I have a strong sense of taste, I notice when stuff is stupidly sweet, too. Most bread disgusts me, too! So it's not like I'm lobbying for more sugar and corn syrup in stuff, because it's gross to me. I seriously just want there to be more options for things that aren't strong and bitter, because it sucks so much to just be constantly dealing with it and eating stuff that you don't like all that much. And it's not like I never eat anything (because like I said, literally everything is right on the line of being too bitter or acidic to me - even sweet stuff like fruit). I just sort of suck it up every time I eat because it's either that or never eat anything but potatoes. But that's why I was so excited for Mongolian food - my partner was like "this is good and simple" and for me it was a taste adventure I could actually handle.
posted by teponaztli at 1:58 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
OK, let me tell you how hard it is to do that. My partner and I tried a new Mongolian restaurant (traditional Mongolian food, not BBQ) near us for the first time last night, and I've been talking about it nonstop because it's not very strong flavored. Like, I don't know if I'm a super taster or not (my partner thinks it's more like an overstimulation thing since I react strongly to all kinds of stimulus), but it was such a relief to find something pretty low key. I mean, I can eat other stuff, so I'm not like, say, my friend's son who retches if he tastes anything stronger than plain boiled potato. But my favorite foods as a kid were always things like pasta with butter, because tomato sauce was too bitter and acidic. So it's kind of nice to not have to brace myself when I'm eating. Thank you, Mongolian cuisine! I had to stop myself from getting lunch there today.
This summer I've had a bunch of health problems, and among other things I have to avoid acidic food and spicy things. It is so incredibly hard to do that unless you're cooking everything from scratch, which sucks and means you can't ever go out. Everything is either spicy or acidic if you can't eat that stuff. And they won't tell you, or they'll be like "no it's mild," which means it's spicy but they don't think it's strong. I've asked people with me to taste stuff and see if it's spicy or acidic or bitter, or whatever. They can't taste it, but I take a bite and there it is, like, overwhelming my face.
And here's the thing: because I have a strong sense of taste, I notice when stuff is stupidly sweet, too. Most bread disgusts me, too! So it's not like I'm lobbying for more sugar and corn syrup in stuff, because it's gross to me. I seriously just want there to be more options for things that aren't strong and bitter, because it sucks so much to just be constantly dealing with it and eating stuff that you don't like all that much. And it's not like I never eat anything (because like I said, literally everything is right on the line of being too bitter or acidic to me - even sweet stuff like fruit). I just sort of suck it up every time I eat because it's either that or never eat anything but potatoes. But that's why I was so excited for Mongolian food - my partner was like "this is good and simple" and for me it was a taste adventure I could actually handle.
posted by teponaztli at 1:58 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Gurmar, aka THE SUGAR DESTROYER
piteous were the songs of lamentation in the cane-fields in the years after Gurmar beset himself upon them!
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:59 PM on August 22, 2016 [16 favorites]
piteous were the songs of lamentation in the cane-fields in the years after Gurmar beset himself upon them!
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:59 PM on August 22, 2016 [16 favorites]
What industry or historical farm failure are we shoring up?
It's the farming subsidies. Corn specifically.
posted by Strange_Robinson at 2:00 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
It's the farming subsidies. Corn specifically.
posted by Strange_Robinson at 2:00 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
It's profits. Sugar is a flavour extender.
posted by The Seeds of Autumn at 2:02 PM on August 22, 2016
posted by The Seeds of Autumn at 2:02 PM on August 22, 2016
I'm a supertaster and this product intrigues me and I wish to subscribe to its newsletter.
I'm also a supertaster but I like the bitter things. I've done the bitter-strip tests (three different kinds) and it all tastes like a big bag of bitter to me, like licking a tire, but still, pile on the arugula, the over-hopped beer, the cilantro. Feed me bitter things. This stuff would ruin half my culinary delights.
posted by dis_integration at 2:06 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm also a supertaster but I like the bitter things. I've done the bitter-strip tests (three different kinds) and it all tastes like a big bag of bitter to me, like licking a tire, but still, pile on the arugula, the over-hopped beer, the cilantro. Feed me bitter things. This stuff would ruin half my culinary delights.
posted by dis_integration at 2:06 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Do people eschew healthy diets because healthy foods taste bad, or because healthy foods are more expensive and require more effort to obtain and prepare?
It seems to me that it's mostly about maximizing profits by appealing to the largest number of people with the smallest number of products. And the few things that have near universal appeal are sweet, salty, and fatty. Things everyone can tolerate, which is why I think of it as a toddler palate.
So as loathe as I am to link a TED Talk by Malcolm Gladwell, here is a TED Talk by Malcolm Gladwell, about big food manufacturers targeting the middle of the bell curve. There was also some longform piece I read once and can no longer find about a bread company that tried this approach in order to increase their market share and ended up losing their core niche customer base. They made it softer and sweeter, based on focus group testing, when it turned out they had a loyal customer base built up of people who preferred their product because it wasn't soft and sweet.
In fact, I have a pet conspiracy theory that food manufacturers have gone beyond simply targeting the biggest audience to the exclusion of others, and are now slowly trying to manipulate their customers' palates to expand that target group by slowly phasing out acquired tastes such as bitterness and complexity* and variety. If you can get people used to eating things that all kind of taste the same all the time, you can maximize profits by concentrating on those limited flavor profiles. And unfortunately, those flavor profiles tend to be pretty unhealthy in large quantities.
* I discovered a while back that, when some people say something is "too spicy," they're not necessarily talking about heat, but about herbs and spices, like oregano and turmeric and stuff. I'm serious.
posted by ernielundquist at 2:25 PM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
It seems to me that it's mostly about maximizing profits by appealing to the largest number of people with the smallest number of products. And the few things that have near universal appeal are sweet, salty, and fatty. Things everyone can tolerate, which is why I think of it as a toddler palate.
So as loathe as I am to link a TED Talk by Malcolm Gladwell, here is a TED Talk by Malcolm Gladwell, about big food manufacturers targeting the middle of the bell curve. There was also some longform piece I read once and can no longer find about a bread company that tried this approach in order to increase their market share and ended up losing their core niche customer base. They made it softer and sweeter, based on focus group testing, when it turned out they had a loyal customer base built up of people who preferred their product because it wasn't soft and sweet.
In fact, I have a pet conspiracy theory that food manufacturers have gone beyond simply targeting the biggest audience to the exclusion of others, and are now slowly trying to manipulate their customers' palates to expand that target group by slowly phasing out acquired tastes such as bitterness and complexity* and variety. If you can get people used to eating things that all kind of taste the same all the time, you can maximize profits by concentrating on those limited flavor profiles. And unfortunately, those flavor profiles tend to be pretty unhealthy in large quantities.
* I discovered a while back that, when some people say something is "too spicy," they're not necessarily talking about heat, but about herbs and spices, like oregano and turmeric and stuff. I'm serious.
posted by ernielundquist at 2:25 PM on August 22, 2016 [10 favorites]
teponaztli: I've asked people with me to taste stuff and see if it's spicy or acidic or bitter, or whatever.
I'm curious, when you ask if something is "spicy" are you asking where it is on the Scoville scale? Or are you asking if it is heavily spiced? Because those are two very different questions to me, and I know that my answer regarding, say, the lunch I had on Thursday could be misleading to someone who doesn't believe that there is such a thing as a mild curry (chicken tikka is british , for crying out loud).
Looking at these recipes for Mongolian food (which I've never had except for Khaaaaaaan's), it doesn't look like these recipes use much in the way of spices at all (I see one recipe that includes caraway*). That's interesting to me, given the Silk Road and all that).
It's also interesting to hear that being a "supertaster" could be come kind of curse -- I've always assumed that super tasters would enjoy their food much more because they could experience much more in it. But I guess if you are a super taster you'd be able to detect that your sandwich was made on a surface that once held a loaf of caraway rye and that might make you sad.
*which everyone knows is the worst spice (especially in hamburgers)
posted by sparklemotion at 2:25 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm curious, when you ask if something is "spicy" are you asking where it is on the Scoville scale? Or are you asking if it is heavily spiced? Because those are two very different questions to me, and I know that my answer regarding, say, the lunch I had on Thursday could be misleading to someone who doesn't believe that there is such a thing as a mild curry (chicken tikka is british , for crying out loud).
Looking at these recipes for Mongolian food (which I've never had except for Khaaaaaaan's), it doesn't look like these recipes use much in the way of spices at all (I see one recipe that includes caraway*). That's interesting to me, given the Silk Road and all that).
It's also interesting to hear that being a "supertaster" could be come kind of curse -- I've always assumed that super tasters would enjoy their food much more because they could experience much more in it. But I guess if you are a super taster you'd be able to detect that your sandwich was made on a surface that once held a loaf of caraway rye and that might make you sad.
*which everyone knows is the worst spice (especially in hamburgers)
posted by sparklemotion at 2:25 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
maryr: "OLOLOLOL This is the most bullshit "There's a reporter in the lab!" picture I've seen since that film crew recorded our intern balancing tubes for the centrifuge. "
Yeah the full face mask and hair cover effect are kind of dulled by the fact that the guy isn't wearing any gloves. Safety should cite him for improper PPE.
Count me among those that LIKE bitter flavors, evolutionary avoidance of poison be damned.
posted by caution live frogs at 2:30 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah the full face mask and hair cover effect are kind of dulled by the fact that the guy isn't wearing any gloves. Safety should cite him for improper PPE.
Count me among those that LIKE bitter flavors, evolutionary avoidance of poison be damned.
posted by caution live frogs at 2:30 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
and no one is sure exactly what your body does with it once it’s inside
this is just David Cronenberg returning to form with a new movie...
posted by ennui.bz at 2:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
this is just David Cronenberg returning to form with a new movie...
posted by ennui.bz at 2:32 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I love spicy food which has to do with growing up in Louisiana and doing shots of tobascco during 5th grade lumchroom dares.
I now live in Midwestern bland hell. I go to restaurants with supposedly spicy food (Indian or Thai) and I have to inform the staff in promise I can take it spicy, not Midwestern spicy but let me eat some peppers whole spicy.
And I love it when they believe me!!
Bitter though I'm not to fond of. I can do a spritz of lemon in my water, but things like kale gross me out.
I want to try this !
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:43 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I now live in Midwestern bland hell. I go to restaurants with supposedly spicy food (Indian or Thai) and I have to inform the staff in promise I can take it spicy, not Midwestern spicy but let me eat some peppers whole spicy.
And I love it when they believe me!!
Bitter though I'm not to fond of. I can do a spritz of lemon in my water, but things like kale gross me out.
I want to try this !
posted by AlexiaSky at 2:43 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
While I like bitter foods in general, I would love something like this for coffee. It's a basic requirement for functioning for me (8-10 cups a day...), but I have to add calories or weird-tasting artificial sweetener to it to be able to drink it. If I could replace that with black coffee with just the bitterness removed, I'd be happy (I think, the bitter is such a basic flavor component I'm not entirely sure what no-bitter black coffee would taste like).
posted by thefoxgod at 2:50 PM on August 22, 2016
posted by thefoxgod at 2:50 PM on August 22, 2016
things like kale gross me out
That surprises me. Kale is about the only greens that don't taste bitter or skunky to me (no matter how they're prepared).
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:52 PM on August 22, 2016
That surprises me. Kale is about the only greens that don't taste bitter or skunky to me (no matter how they're prepared).
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:52 PM on August 22, 2016
I'm not entirely sure what no-bitter black coffee would taste like
tea, it's tea
posted by poffin boffin at 3:20 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
tea, it's tea
posted by poffin boffin at 3:20 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
embrace the leaf shun the bean
posted by poffin boffin at 3:20 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 3:20 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm curious, when you ask if something is "spicy" are you asking where it is on the Scoville scale?
Sorry, I left out a sentence - I meant to say that trying to find bitter food is like trying to find food that isn't spicy, because everything is and no one ever thinks about it.
I don't want to give the impression that I'm a supertaster, because I've never been tested and I eat bitter things. It's just that everything is really strong to me. But I like curry. I like herbs and spices, except stuff that tastes sour or bitter.
It's also interesting to hear that being a "supertaster" could be come kind of curse -- I've always assumed that super tasters would enjoy their food much more because they could experience much more in it. But I guess if you are a super taster you'd be able to detect that your sandwich was made on a surface that once held a loaf of caraway rye and that might make you sad.
Again, nothing that extreme. Genuine supertasters might feel differently. I'm completely disgusted if you cut fruit on a cutting board where you once chopped an onion, but I think that's pretty normal.
But otherwise, yeah, it's just that everything is really strong. I've gotten used to it over the course of my life at least in part because everyone has given me so much shit for it. That "toddlers" comment was grating because even if people recognize that other people have other taste preferences, there's this underlying message that liking bland stuff is boring and dull. Get out more, drink better beers, learn to love spicy food, have a more mature and refined palate! And yeah, mass market stuff is pretty inoffensive, but maybe that's ok for some people? I've been sneered at a bunch of times for liking, gasp, mild-tasting things, and it's been pretty old for a long time.
I was thinking about bitter food because having that mild meal last night was such a revelation - I don't actually have to suck it up and eat strong tasting food all the time! It's almost empowering to think that I can have a meal of, like, plain pasta and not have to feel like it's because I don't know how to like good food. I've spent my whole life learning to like sour and bitter stuff, but at the end of the day my favorite foods have always been the mildest things.
Anyway, since I need vegetables and so on, it could be great to have something that makes food less bitter - not because I haven't learned to eat stuff like kale (I gagged the first time I tried it), but so that I might be able to enjoy it more.
posted by teponaztli at 3:28 PM on August 22, 2016
Sorry, I left out a sentence - I meant to say that trying to find bitter food is like trying to find food that isn't spicy, because everything is and no one ever thinks about it.
I don't want to give the impression that I'm a supertaster, because I've never been tested and I eat bitter things. It's just that everything is really strong to me. But I like curry. I like herbs and spices, except stuff that tastes sour or bitter.
It's also interesting to hear that being a "supertaster" could be come kind of curse -- I've always assumed that super tasters would enjoy their food much more because they could experience much more in it. But I guess if you are a super taster you'd be able to detect that your sandwich was made on a surface that once held a loaf of caraway rye and that might make you sad.
Again, nothing that extreme. Genuine supertasters might feel differently. I'm completely disgusted if you cut fruit on a cutting board where you once chopped an onion, but I think that's pretty normal.
But otherwise, yeah, it's just that everything is really strong. I've gotten used to it over the course of my life at least in part because everyone has given me so much shit for it. That "toddlers" comment was grating because even if people recognize that other people have other taste preferences, there's this underlying message that liking bland stuff is boring and dull. Get out more, drink better beers, learn to love spicy food, have a more mature and refined palate! And yeah, mass market stuff is pretty inoffensive, but maybe that's ok for some people? I've been sneered at a bunch of times for liking, gasp, mild-tasting things, and it's been pretty old for a long time.
I was thinking about bitter food because having that mild meal last night was such a revelation - I don't actually have to suck it up and eat strong tasting food all the time! It's almost empowering to think that I can have a meal of, like, plain pasta and not have to feel like it's because I don't know how to like good food. I've spent my whole life learning to like sour and bitter stuff, but at the end of the day my favorite foods have always been the mildest things.
Anyway, since I need vegetables and so on, it could be great to have something that makes food less bitter - not because I haven't learned to eat stuff like kale (I gagged the first time I tried it), but so that I might be able to enjoy it more.
posted by teponaztli at 3:28 PM on August 22, 2016
Also tea is still super bitter, although that could also be because I suck at making good tea.
posted by teponaztli at 3:28 PM on August 22, 2016
posted by teponaztli at 3:28 PM on August 22, 2016
I hate science journalism that doesn't mention the Latin binomial of the organism it's talking about. It took me three clicks to find out what the article meant by "mushroom": Ganoderma lucidum. I'm a mycologist, so just knowing the NAME OF WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT is helpful to me. On the one hand, G. lucidum is a polypore (shelf fungus) that produces lots of secondary compounds you might wonder about digesting. On the other hand, it has been used in Chinese medicine for a long time, so it's not obviously toxic.
posted by acrasis at 3:35 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by acrasis at 3:35 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
That someone here thinks tea is NOT bitter but coffee IS... makes me want to introduce all of you to good tea and good coffee.
posted by danny the boy at 3:36 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by danny the boy at 3:36 PM on August 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
do people eschew healthy diets because healthy foods taste bad
If raw healthy greens didn't taste like dirt and sadness to me, I would definitely eat them more. And presumably reap the benefits of doing that.
posted by emjaybee at 3:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
If raw healthy greens didn't taste like dirt and sadness to me, I would definitely eat them more. And presumably reap the benefits of doing that.
posted by emjaybee at 3:42 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
I have an aversion to sweetness in many contexts, but nobody's accommodating my tastes anymore.
There are countries where food sweetening is not the norm like it is here, but there is a new labeling law coming in the USA that will require the nutrition labels to include how much sugar was added, not just list the total sugar.
I am hopeful that this will be the wedge that makes a viable submarket for unsweetened foods commercially viable here.
posted by -harlequin- at 3:48 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
There are countries where food sweetening is not the norm like it is here, but there is a new labeling law coming in the USA that will require the nutrition labels to include how much sugar was added, not just list the total sugar.
I am hopeful that this will be the wedge that makes a viable submarket for unsweetened foods commercially viable here.
posted by -harlequin- at 3:48 PM on August 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
OK let me revise that. Caffeine is bitter. Like you wouldn't be able to swallow pure caffeine because it's so bitter.
Because of course it is, it's poison that plants produce to get insects to stop eating it, and humans are pretty good at detecting plant alkaloids, aka poison.
So any tea or coffee that isn't decaffeinated is going to have some amount of bitter in it. And all the decaf stuff is formulated to taste like the regular stuff, so it's going to be bitter too.
But with my preferred coffee the primary taste for me (a non-super taster, I must assume) isn't bitterness at all but sourness. And even that is kind of unfair and super reductionist, because what it really tastes like is fruit: blueberry overwhelmingly, then acidity, then sweetness. Extremely bitter coffee is more often than not just low quality coffee, stuff that's burnt to hell to cover up other sins.
My preferred tea, yeah I would describe that as very bitter, but that's also pretty reductionist. It's bracingly astringent first, then herbaceous and fresh. Non-bitter tea again seems to often be the flavorless low-quality stuff that gets sent to diners across North America.
posted by danny the boy at 3:50 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Because of course it is, it's poison that plants produce to get insects to stop eating it, and humans are pretty good at detecting plant alkaloids, aka poison.
So any tea or coffee that isn't decaffeinated is going to have some amount of bitter in it. And all the decaf stuff is formulated to taste like the regular stuff, so it's going to be bitter too.
But with my preferred coffee the primary taste for me (a non-super taster, I must assume) isn't bitterness at all but sourness. And even that is kind of unfair and super reductionist, because what it really tastes like is fruit: blueberry overwhelmingly, then acidity, then sweetness. Extremely bitter coffee is more often than not just low quality coffee, stuff that's burnt to hell to cover up other sins.
My preferred tea, yeah I would describe that as very bitter, but that's also pretty reductionist. It's bracingly astringent first, then herbaceous and fresh. Non-bitter tea again seems to often be the flavorless low-quality stuff that gets sent to diners across North America.
posted by danny the boy at 3:50 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
embrace the leaf shun the bean
Problem is you need 2-4x more tea (closer to 2x for black, 4x for green) than coffee to get the same amount of caffeine. 20-40 cups of tea is at the very least a lot of liquid to consume.
Other than just snorting/swallowing raw caffeine, coffee is the best delivery system.
posted by thefoxgod at 3:51 PM on August 22, 2016
Problem is you need 2-4x more tea (closer to 2x for black, 4x for green) than coffee to get the same amount of caffeine. 20-40 cups of tea is at the very least a lot of liquid to consume.
Other than just snorting/swallowing raw caffeine, coffee is the best delivery system.
posted by thefoxgod at 3:51 PM on August 22, 2016
The thing about tea, though, is that if you use good loose leaf tea, you can get two or three steepings out of the same leaves. And, contrary to tea lore, it turns out that the subsequent steepings do retain most of the caffeine content of the first one. So it evens out, more of less, if you go by quantity of raw material rather than finished product.
(Also, to be quite honest, moderating your caffeine intake is a good idea for a variety of different reasons.)
posted by tobascodagama at 4:25 PM on August 22, 2016
(Also, to be quite honest, moderating your caffeine intake is a good idea for a variety of different reasons.)
posted by tobascodagama at 4:25 PM on August 22, 2016
Drinking coffee just for the caffeine reminds me of college kids drinking beer just to get plowed. If it doesn't taste good, what's the point when there are yummier ways to get there?
posted by delfin at 4:35 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by delfin at 4:35 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I had to acquire a taste for black teas, but green tea still tastes vile to me.
Coffee and I have got along pretty much since we met.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:39 PM on August 22, 2016
Coffee and I have got along pretty much since we met.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:39 PM on August 22, 2016
More like drinking vodka or Everclear to get plowed --- if it isn't going to taste good anyway, might as well take the most efficient route.
posted by thefoxgod at 4:44 PM on August 22, 2016
posted by thefoxgod at 4:44 PM on August 22, 2016
coffee is the best delivery system
it's like swallowing glass that also happens to taste like the smell of a butt wiped with old socks though
posted by poffin boffin at 4:58 PM on August 22, 2016
it's like swallowing glass that also happens to taste like the smell of a butt wiped with old socks though
posted by poffin boffin at 4:58 PM on August 22, 2016
Anyone who doesn't like the taste of glass shards has the palate of a toddler.
posted by chortly at 5:14 PM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by chortly at 5:14 PM on August 22, 2016 [14 favorites]
That's the damn truth. I'm a lover of bitter, spicy and tangy, but I'm not bothered by a sweet tooth. And I feel like everything right now is sweet.
I have found my people! I just bought a loaf of basic multigrain sandwich bread with the kind of label that promises lots of organic fiber and protein, and good grief it is it ever sweet. I'll finish the loaf, but there's nothing nice to me about wrapping a sandwich in bread that tastes like dessert.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:58 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have found my people! I just bought a loaf of basic multigrain sandwich bread with the kind of label that promises lots of organic fiber and protein, and good grief it is it ever sweet. I'll finish the loaf, but there's nothing nice to me about wrapping a sandwich in bread that tastes like dessert.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:58 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
I can do a spritz of lemon in my water, but things like kale gross me out.
These are two different things, no? Acidic things (e.g., lemon juice and vinegar) are sour. Foods rich in alkaloids or other chemicals that can be toxic in high doses (e.g., rapini or bitter melon) are bitter.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:05 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
These are two different things, no? Acidic things (e.g., lemon juice and vinegar) are sour. Foods rich in alkaloids or other chemicals that can be toxic in high doses (e.g., rapini or bitter melon) are bitter.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:05 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I adore bitter foods, and am dating a super taster who can't stand them... perusing this thread while sipping a delicious chartreuse-and-tonic, wondering if he'll be able to kiss me when he comes over in a few minutes. Long story short: I hope they bring this product to market quickly; it'll do wonders for my sex life.
posted by Sublimity at 6:22 PM on August 22, 2016
posted by Sublimity at 6:22 PM on August 22, 2016
In the desert
I saw a creature, naked, bestial,
Who, squatting upon the ground,
Held his heart in his hands,
And ate of it.
I said, “Is it good, friend?”
“It is bitter—bitter,” he answered;
“At least it was before I added ClearTaste to it.
Now it's sort of bland."
posted by dephlogisticated at 6:23 PM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
I saw a creature, naked, bestial,
Who, squatting upon the ground,
Held his heart in his hands,
And ate of it.
I said, “Is it good, friend?”
“It is bitter—bitter,” he answered;
“At least it was before I added ClearTaste to it.
Now it's sort of bland."
posted by dephlogisticated at 6:23 PM on August 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
That "toddlers" comment was grating because even if people recognize that other people have other taste preferences, there's this underlying message that liking bland stuff is boring and dull.
You are welcome to take offense if you really want to, but it's not intended as moralizing. It's just that, generally speaking, toddlers have pretty limited palates, and little tolerance for foods that fall outside that. It doesn't mean that everyone who enjoys that stuff is a baby. In fact, the point of it is that most people seem to enjoy those things. They have mass appeal, and one measure of the broadness of that appeal is, "Would the average American toddler eat this without complaining?"
It'd be fine if they sold it like an additive that you could put in yourself, or in foods clearly labeled and marketed as de-bittered, but the article explicitly says that it's intended to be used in processed foods, and that it's used in such small quantities it wouldn't even have to be labeled. Which implies that some day, I might not even be able to buy frozen spinach that tastes like spinach anymore, and the many of the other little shortcuts I have left are going to start disappearing as well, and I'm just going to be washing spinach and baking bread and slow cooking spaghetti sauce.
posted by ernielundquist at 6:24 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
You are welcome to take offense if you really want to, but it's not intended as moralizing. It's just that, generally speaking, toddlers have pretty limited palates, and little tolerance for foods that fall outside that. It doesn't mean that everyone who enjoys that stuff is a baby. In fact, the point of it is that most people seem to enjoy those things. They have mass appeal, and one measure of the broadness of that appeal is, "Would the average American toddler eat this without complaining?"
It'd be fine if they sold it like an additive that you could put in yourself, or in foods clearly labeled and marketed as de-bittered, but the article explicitly says that it's intended to be used in processed foods, and that it's used in such small quantities it wouldn't even have to be labeled. Which implies that some day, I might not even be able to buy frozen spinach that tastes like spinach anymore, and the many of the other little shortcuts I have left are going to start disappearing as well, and I'm just going to be washing spinach and baking bread and slow cooking spaghetti sauce.
posted by ernielundquist at 6:24 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
And even that is kind of unfair and super reductionist, because what it really tastes like is fruit: blueberry overwhelmingly, then acidity, then sweetness.
That description of really good coffee (Ethiopian?) was so spot on that it actually triggered a Proustian moment for me.
Now I want to go to there.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
That description of really good coffee (Ethiopian?) was so spot on that it actually triggered a Proustian moment for me.
Now I want to go to there.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:28 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
> While I like bitter foods in general, I would love something like this for coffee. It's a basic requirement for functioning for me (8-10 cups a day...),
Caffeine pills. Or try cold-brew coffee. It's much less acidic and bitter.
posted by rtha at 6:48 PM on August 22, 2016
Caffeine pills. Or try cold-brew coffee. It's much less acidic and bitter.
posted by rtha at 6:48 PM on August 22, 2016
That article is TERRIFYING. I don't want my gut or lungs messed up because someone else thought they could save $.02 a serving on cocoa powder by using this instead of a tablespoon of sugar.
posted by holyrood at 6:56 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by holyrood at 6:56 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is a real breakthrough, they totally won't taste the cyanide now!
Thank you Cleartaste!
posted by boilermonster at 8:10 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Thank you Cleartaste!
posted by boilermonster at 8:10 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Christ, people. For all of you complaining that Americans just like things too sweet, please stop. 25% off us taste things as waaaaaay more bitter than everyone else. So when you talk about some great spinach-artichoke dip we just have to try....it tastes awful. Always. It would be really nice if we could taste all the awesome things you keep talking about, and not retch. I'm not saying this is the right thing, but please stop acting like we're babies. It's genetics.
posted by greermahoney at 8:51 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 8:51 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I've never understood how so many supertasters can hardly seem to stand to eat almost anything and yet another good number become professional chefs.
posted by rtha at 8:55 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by rtha at 8:55 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh if you want to drink coffee but can't because of bitterness, sugar sure, but try adding (a little bit) of salt and fat.
I have had people watch in horror as I've added a pat of butter to my coffee, before the whole "bulletproof coffee" trend came around. It's the same reason you add salt when baking with chocolate--sugar masks, but the salt neutralizes bitterness.
Or you can just take your coffee with salted caramel if you want to be more socially acceptable.
posted by danny the boy at 9:34 PM on August 22, 2016
I have had people watch in horror as I've added a pat of butter to my coffee, before the whole "bulletproof coffee" trend came around. It's the same reason you add salt when baking with chocolate--sugar masks, but the salt neutralizes bitterness.
Or you can just take your coffee with salted caramel if you want to be more socially acceptable.
posted by danny the boy at 9:34 PM on August 22, 2016
Oh something that could take the sweet out of food would be so good. The last real pleasurable flavor I can recall was asparagus broiled in evoo with melted parm cheese shavings and white pepper. That was a year ago. Everything since then has been sour, meat, salt, or sweet (not a big bitter guy).
posted by infinitewindow at 10:42 PM on August 22, 2016
posted by infinitewindow at 10:42 PM on August 22, 2016
I've been experimenting with Sichuan pepper corns in my food -- they have a very mild anaesthetic effect (similar to aloe) and can change other flavors in the same dish.
posted by miyabo at 5:48 AM on August 23, 2016
posted by miyabo at 5:48 AM on August 23, 2016
I often ask people how they would rank their favorite tastes, partially to find out if I'm the only one whose favorite is bitter. (My ranking from best to worst: bitter, umami, salty, sweet, sour.)
posted by kozad at 5:48 AM on August 23, 2016
posted by kozad at 5:48 AM on August 23, 2016
Finally, no more relying on Coors Light to avoid the BITTER BEER FACE!!
posted by NoMich at 5:55 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by NoMich at 5:55 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Christ, people. For all of you complaining that Americans just like things too sweet, please stop. ... It's genetics.
...no, it's really not. Not for "Americans" as a class, anyway. Yes, there are individuals whose taste experiences differ due to genetics (particularly w/r/t bitterness), and that's fine, and no one should be beating them up over it.
But it really is true that the foods on American supermarket shelves (and served in American restaurants) are full of added sugar. To the point that it contributes to our obesity epidemic. Food companies add sugar to every damn thing these days – and certainly not just to bitter foods. I've heard people from other countries complain that American sandwich bread tastes like cake. Look at nutrition labels sometime – it's almost impossible to eat in the US without ingesting refined sugar left and right.
That is all about acculturation, not genetics. And it's a real public health issue, and I don't buy "stop complaining, y'all can put up with a little added sugar for the sake of us people who don't like bitter things". Engineering our food supply chain to appeal to the broadest common denominator might be economically efficient, but (at least w/r/t added sugar) it's disastrous to public health.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:12 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
...no, it's really not. Not for "Americans" as a class, anyway. Yes, there are individuals whose taste experiences differ due to genetics (particularly w/r/t bitterness), and that's fine, and no one should be beating them up over it.
But it really is true that the foods on American supermarket shelves (and served in American restaurants) are full of added sugar. To the point that it contributes to our obesity epidemic. Food companies add sugar to every damn thing these days – and certainly not just to bitter foods. I've heard people from other countries complain that American sandwich bread tastes like cake. Look at nutrition labels sometime – it's almost impossible to eat in the US without ingesting refined sugar left and right.
That is all about acculturation, not genetics. And it's a real public health issue, and I don't buy "stop complaining, y'all can put up with a little added sugar for the sake of us people who don't like bitter things". Engineering our food supply chain to appeal to the broadest common denominator might be economically efficient, but (at least w/r/t added sugar) it's disastrous to public health.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 6:12 AM on August 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
I can do a spritz of lemon in my water, but things like kale gross me out.
These are two different things, no? Acidic things (e.g., lemon juice and vinegar) are sour. Foods rich in alkaloids or other chemicals that can be toxic in high doses (e.g., rapini or bitter melon) are bitter.
For me sour and bitter are completely distinct sensations, but for my partner they are sort of a variation on a theme, not nearly so differentiated. I have a lot of trouble wrapping my head around how taste can function so differently for different people, but it evidently does.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:39 AM on August 23, 2016
These are two different things, no? Acidic things (e.g., lemon juice and vinegar) are sour. Foods rich in alkaloids or other chemicals that can be toxic in high doses (e.g., rapini or bitter melon) are bitter.
For me sour and bitter are completely distinct sensations, but for my partner they are sort of a variation on a theme, not nearly so differentiated. I have a lot of trouble wrapping my head around how taste can function so differently for different people, but it evidently does.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:39 AM on August 23, 2016
If raw healthy greens didn't taste like dirt and sadness to me, I would definitely eat them more.
You know you're supposed to WASH the raw greens first, right?
collard greens 4 lyfe
posted by Mayor West at 7:29 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
You know you're supposed to WASH the raw greens first, right?
collard greens 4 lyfe
posted by Mayor West at 7:29 AM on August 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
For me sour and bitter are completely distinct sensations, but for my partner they are sort of a variation on a theme, not nearly so differentiated. I have a lot of trouble wrapping my head around how taste can function so differently for different people, but it evidently does.
Well, the experiences of sour and bitter are certainly similar – but the stimuli (i.e., the chemicals in the foodstuff, and the type of taste receptors they stimulate) are different.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 7:44 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well, the experiences of sour and bitter are certainly similar – but the stimuli (i.e., the chemicals in the foodstuff, and the type of taste receptors they stimulate) are different.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 7:44 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
1.
I grew up in a Brazilian coffee farm in the countryside during the Washington Consensus period, which is to say I was raised to a taste that appreciates such delicacies as brains, guts and brown sauce. Bitter greens, herbs and teas were very much a daily thing. Moving to São Paulo during the crisis without access to elite culture (and its food), I was quickly acculturated into the sugar + fat + sodium palate. Beef-and-cream topped with fries with a side of coca-cola was a favourite dish throughout adolescence and I quickly developed an aversion to my childhood staple foods, in particular bitterness. Then as luck would have it I found my way into an elite college, and began class-climbing, which is a fancy way of saying I began dishing my countryside background and pedestrian urban habits and tastes in favour of a more cosmopolitan culture. It turns out that, with massive Italian and Arabic immigrant influence, São Paulo elite culture is fond of some well-done bitterness, both soft and harsh, and so off again I went on a journey to learn to appreciate bitterness.
Some people are physiologically averse to this or that taste. Most of us aren't. Most of us are just psychologically averse to bitterness, in part because it's often poorly executed, but also because there is a strong corporate pressure to standardise flavours around the cheapest, most universally acceptable, the culinary least common multiple if you will. Dissing tastes as evil is classist (often middle class rejecting both upper and lower class tastes). You can have your personal taste (and you should, to some extent, challenge it, if anything because you may end up with a larger surface area to potentially enjoyable things), but please don't generalise and doubly please don't generalise into a moral judgement.
The whole "is bitterness good or evil" thing is a culture/class marker across the Western countries, but you can find similar debates about sweetness and spiciness (both "spicy as hot" and "spicy as condimented") elsewhere. It seems like pushing boundaries of what tastes are tolerable is an old trick in the book for splitting cliques and classes. Let's all just enjoy ourselves and not think of ourselves and others too highly (or lowly) because of them.
2.
On that note, about the beer thing. First, three quick facts: 1. bitterness is something we get increasingly tolerant to; 2. hops are the key aromatic donor to good beer; 3. IPAs are about the easiest, most forgiving recipes when you homebrew or microbrew. So a person learning about craft beer will at once be exposed to a lot of interesting flavours mostly through pale ales and IPAs, and become increasingly tolerant to bitterness. This is why someone entering the beer fad will often have an "IPA phase". It wanes. At some point you just get over the novelty and go explore sour beers, fruit beers, and even beers that can't be had without some high-fat dish (such as the highly balsamic Rodenbach Grand Cru).
It's okay to go through an "IPA phase". It's when you and your palate learn the most, the quickest. It's okay to skip it altogether. If you can't tolerate bitterness, physiologically, you can start at saisons for instance, or dry-hopped low-bitterness beers. Craft beer is a culture, which is to say (see point above) it's a class marker, so developing resistance and connaissance about IPAs is something people will boast about with pride. Let them. Don't let them generalise or lecture you about it (in Brazilian Portuguese we call it "rule-sh*tting", and I think that's beautiful), but at the same time there's no need for snark or judgment toward them.
posted by rufb at 7:53 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
I grew up in a Brazilian coffee farm in the countryside during the Washington Consensus period, which is to say I was raised to a taste that appreciates such delicacies as brains, guts and brown sauce. Bitter greens, herbs and teas were very much a daily thing. Moving to São Paulo during the crisis without access to elite culture (and its food), I was quickly acculturated into the sugar + fat + sodium palate. Beef-and-cream topped with fries with a side of coca-cola was a favourite dish throughout adolescence and I quickly developed an aversion to my childhood staple foods, in particular bitterness. Then as luck would have it I found my way into an elite college, and began class-climbing, which is a fancy way of saying I began dishing my countryside background and pedestrian urban habits and tastes in favour of a more cosmopolitan culture. It turns out that, with massive Italian and Arabic immigrant influence, São Paulo elite culture is fond of some well-done bitterness, both soft and harsh, and so off again I went on a journey to learn to appreciate bitterness.
Some people are physiologically averse to this or that taste. Most of us aren't. Most of us are just psychologically averse to bitterness, in part because it's often poorly executed, but also because there is a strong corporate pressure to standardise flavours around the cheapest, most universally acceptable, the culinary least common multiple if you will. Dissing tastes as evil is classist (often middle class rejecting both upper and lower class tastes). You can have your personal taste (and you should, to some extent, challenge it, if anything because you may end up with a larger surface area to potentially enjoyable things), but please don't generalise and doubly please don't generalise into a moral judgement.
The whole "is bitterness good or evil" thing is a culture/class marker across the Western countries, but you can find similar debates about sweetness and spiciness (both "spicy as hot" and "spicy as condimented") elsewhere. It seems like pushing boundaries of what tastes are tolerable is an old trick in the book for splitting cliques and classes. Let's all just enjoy ourselves and not think of ourselves and others too highly (or lowly) because of them.
2.
On that note, about the beer thing. First, three quick facts: 1. bitterness is something we get increasingly tolerant to; 2. hops are the key aromatic donor to good beer; 3. IPAs are about the easiest, most forgiving recipes when you homebrew or microbrew. So a person learning about craft beer will at once be exposed to a lot of interesting flavours mostly through pale ales and IPAs, and become increasingly tolerant to bitterness. This is why someone entering the beer fad will often have an "IPA phase". It wanes. At some point you just get over the novelty and go explore sour beers, fruit beers, and even beers that can't be had without some high-fat dish (such as the highly balsamic Rodenbach Grand Cru).
It's okay to go through an "IPA phase". It's when you and your palate learn the most, the quickest. It's okay to skip it altogether. If you can't tolerate bitterness, physiologically, you can start at saisons for instance, or dry-hopped low-bitterness beers. Craft beer is a culture, which is to say (see point above) it's a class marker, so developing resistance and connaissance about IPAs is something people will boast about with pride. Let them. Don't let them generalise or lecture you about it (in Brazilian Portuguese we call it "rule-sh*tting", and I think that's beautiful), but at the same time there's no need for snark or judgment toward them.
posted by rufb at 7:53 AM on August 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
Oh if you want to drink coffee but can't because of bitterness, sugar sure, but try adding (a little bit) of salt and fat.
That actually explains a lot about yak butter tea.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:57 AM on August 23, 2016
That actually explains a lot about yak butter tea.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:57 AM on August 23, 2016
Oh if you want to drink coffee but can't because of bitterness, sugar sure, but try adding (a little bit) of salt and fat.Things that have worked for different friends who can't tolerate bitter coffee:
- Pour you espresso over lemon zest ("espresso romano") with a one-finger pinch of salt.
- Add a spoon of coconut oil (it apparently also gives you an extra energy boost).
- Learn to buy and store decent coffee beans, grind right before extracting, and use pour-over or better yet AeroPress methods, which are highly forgiving and eliminate a lot of bitterness.
posted by rufb at 8:12 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
You know you're supposed to WASH the raw greens first, right?
The dirt taste is inside, you can never wash it out.
All I can do is use techniques like roasting or sautee-ing or using lots of butter and cheese, which is ok, but popping a de-bittering pill and then just eating raw broccoli would save me time and calories. If it worked.
But! I do agree that too much food has sweeteners. I like sugar! I do not want every item I eat to be sweet. I like dark bitter chocolate. We mostly don't eat bread, and when I do, it's way too sweet. I love sour things and salty ones. I like chopped tomatoes over jar sauces on my pasta because, yes, too much sugar in them. And so on.
posted by emjaybee at 9:03 AM on August 23, 2016
The dirt taste is inside, you can never wash it out.
All I can do is use techniques like roasting or sautee-ing or using lots of butter and cheese, which is ok, but popping a de-bittering pill and then just eating raw broccoli would save me time and calories. If it worked.
But! I do agree that too much food has sweeteners. I like sugar! I do not want every item I eat to be sweet. I like dark bitter chocolate. We mostly don't eat bread, and when I do, it's way too sweet. I love sour things and salty ones. I like chopped tomatoes over jar sauces on my pasta because, yes, too much sugar in them. And so on.
posted by emjaybee at 9:03 AM on August 23, 2016
It was inevitable: the scent of bitter almonds - attenuated by ClearTaste - sort of reminded him of the fate of unrequited love.
posted by horsewithnoname at 10:53 AM on August 23, 2016
posted by horsewithnoname at 10:53 AM on August 23, 2016
I don't particularly mind bitter foods--I was something of a supertaster when I was younger, but I seem to have grown out of it, and now drink my coffee black more often than not--but I still favor releasing this stuff into the general public, because something's gotta trigger superpowers, and radiation, heavy metals, dioxin and Day-glo Play-doh haven't done the trick.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:58 AM on August 23, 2016
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:58 AM on August 23, 2016
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If adding weird mushroom stuff to our foods is the only way to kill off ridiculously overly bitter IPAs, so be it
posted by not_the_water at 12:31 PM on August 22, 2016 [43 favorites]