The Politics of Dancing
October 2, 2016 12:55 PM Subscribe
The economics of dining as a couple - "I am eternally astonished to find not only that many couples I know failed to discuss this key area before they marched up to the altar, but also that many of them still have not developed a joint dining strategy even after 10 or 20 years together. This is madness." Megan McArdle blends economics and marriage therapy.
Communist dining breaks down horribly when you are from Baltimore and your spouse is deathly allergic to shellfish.
posted by FritoKAL at 1:06 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by FritoKAL at 1:06 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Touch my plate and die. Doesn't matter how much I might love you: you order your food and I'll order mine.
posted by easily confused at 1:07 PM on October 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by easily confused at 1:07 PM on October 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
Whether you attempt these outside of marriage is between you and your god.
My god is the Almighty Dollar and he thinks you're full of shit.
posted by Splunge at 1:12 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
My god is the Almighty Dollar and he thinks you're full of shit.
posted by Splunge at 1:12 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Doesn't matter how much I might love you: you order your food and I'll order mine.
Clearly someone is gunning to repeal NAFTA.
posted by GuyZero at 1:13 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Clearly someone is gunning to repeal NAFTA.
posted by GuyZero at 1:13 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Never in the history of my relationship with Beloved Partner have I been allowed to eat all of what I ordered. Every time I am offered the trade of weeds-roots-mulch or supposed-healthy-thing for my delicious whatever; I am not allowed to refuse this trade.
It keeps harmony in the partnership, but just once I would like the autarky option, and eat what I choose, not what BP wants to trade.
posted by librosegretti at 1:17 PM on October 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
It keeps harmony in the partnership, but just once I would like the autarky option, and eat what I choose, not what BP wants to trade.
posted by librosegretti at 1:17 PM on October 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
I can't tell you how many first dates I've been on with men who didn't even offer to let me try their whatever.
I can, however, tell you how many second dates I've been on with men who didn't even offer to let me try their whatever:
None.
posted by jacquilynne at 1:18 PM on October 2, 2016 [67 favorites]
I can, however, tell you how many second dates I've been on with men who didn't even offer to let me try their whatever:
None.
posted by jacquilynne at 1:18 PM on October 2, 2016 [67 favorites]
Cold War Dining:
I order my food, she orders hers.
Then we each proclaim our food the best while threatening to stab the other with a fork if they encroach on our plate.
Occasionally, we bring the child and use the kids menu as a proxy to achieve our ends.
posted by madajb at 1:22 PM on October 2, 2016 [33 favorites]
I order my food, she orders hers.
Then we each proclaim our food the best while threatening to stab the other with a fork if they encroach on our plate.
Occasionally, we bring the child and use the kids menu as a proxy to achieve our ends.
posted by madajb at 1:22 PM on October 2, 2016 [33 favorites]
I can't tell you how many first dates I've been on with men who didn't even offer to let me try their whatever.
It would never occur to me to offer, but it would also never occur to me to refuse if asked. I have no idea how many times I didn't get a second date for committing a dealbreaker offense like this that I had no idea was a thing. Probably all of them.
posted by tclark at 1:22 PM on October 2, 2016 [38 favorites]
It would never occur to me to offer, but it would also never occur to me to refuse if asked. I have no idea how many times I didn't get a second date for committing a dealbreaker offense like this that I had no idea was a thing. Probably all of them.
posted by tclark at 1:22 PM on October 2, 2016 [38 favorites]
This is terrible for me. I never know what I want to actually order until the waiter asks. It's a good system and more to the point it's my system.
posted by Carillon at 1:23 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Carillon at 1:23 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Occasionally, we bring the child and use the kids menu as a proxy to achieve our ends.
Little Madison will have the children's macaroni and cheese as well as the whole lobster. I'll have a salad.
posted by GuyZero at 1:25 PM on October 2, 2016 [19 favorites]
Little Madison will have the children's macaroni and cheese as well as the whole lobster. I'll have a salad.
posted by GuyZero at 1:25 PM on October 2, 2016 [19 favorites]
Agreed tclark, I wouldn't offer on a first date. I'd actually think to offer but would worry about how it would come across and likely refrain.
posted by Carillon at 1:25 PM on October 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Carillon at 1:25 PM on October 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
This column does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the editorial board or Bloomberg LP and its owners.Archness, thy name is Bloomberg Online Content Editor, Friday Afternoon Shift.
posted by Etrigan at 1:26 PM on October 2, 2016 [8 favorites]
"Funny" pieces like this are always, however inadvertently or unconsciously, great illustrations of how mainstream economics is a total ideology masquerading as, or superimposed over, an empirical social science. It aims at a complete transformation of the self — you have to become the kind of person who's thinking about game theory while eating with their family. It's homo economicus in ha-ha-only-serious form.
posted by RogerB at 1:27 PM on October 2, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by RogerB at 1:27 PM on October 2, 2016 [25 favorites]
I was out once with someone and we grabbed a quick bite in a mall food court. It being a food court, my food was mediocre but somehow hers looked far more appetizing. When I realized how things stood, I peered off over her shoulder into the middle distance with a look of concentration. She asked, "What are you looking at?"
I said, "That guy over here there has a raccoon on a leash." She twisted around to look and while she was scanning the crowd I managed to scoop up about three mouthfuls of her delicious meal. She turned back and said she saw nothing, but I swallowed hastily and said, "No, he just went behind that pillar, There he is!" Again the swerve, again more tasty food for me, and that is how I brought the communist revolution to our dinner table.
You might wonder how this worked out. Reader, I married her, and to this day "Look! A raccoon!" is shorthand in this house for, "Your meal looks delicious -- may I try a bite?"
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:29 PM on October 2, 2016 [86 favorites]
I said, "That guy over here there has a raccoon on a leash." She twisted around to look and while she was scanning the crowd I managed to scoop up about three mouthfuls of her delicious meal. She turned back and said she saw nothing, but I swallowed hastily and said, "No, he just went behind that pillar, There he is!" Again the swerve, again more tasty food for me, and that is how I brought the communist revolution to our dinner table.
You might wonder how this worked out. Reader, I married her, and to this day "Look! A raccoon!" is shorthand in this house for, "Your meal looks delicious -- may I try a bite?"
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:29 PM on October 2, 2016 [86 favorites]
mainstream economics is a total ideology masquerading as, or superimposed over, an empirical social science.
It's a word-view, certainly, but it generally doesn't tell you what to do, just that your choices have consequences. What a shock, there's a field of study about people making choices. What a crazy ideology.
posted by GuyZero at 1:32 PM on October 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
It's a word-view, certainly, but it generally doesn't tell you what to do, just that your choices have consequences. What a shock, there's a field of study about people making choices. What a crazy ideology.
posted by GuyZero at 1:32 PM on October 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
I usually eat alone, and have whatever the fuck I want, which makes me much more open minded when I'm at dinner with someone else. Sure, no problem, try my garlic fries, as long as I don't have to play this game all the time, it's all good.
posted by dbiedny at 1:35 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by dbiedny at 1:35 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
@ricochet biscuit, we use a similar method at our house for the exact same end, but in our case the magic phrase is, "Is that [SF Giants catcher and all-around standup guy] Buster Posey?!?" Never fails to turn heads and distract the unguarded diner, even when we're at home. Brilliant for acquiring a few bites of cheesy and/or potato-ey goodness from one of the kids...
posted by mosk at 1:41 PM on October 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by mosk at 1:41 PM on October 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
I have a small, semi-regular dining group of women and we go full-on communism. It's great. There's always one person who thinks we should have a salad (I am opposed to this on principle but have learned that when she is not with us, we miss out on some very good salad). There's one person who thinks they aren't as adventurous as us and ends up enjoying everything. It's a great system but it only works when people are committed to it. The only real wrinkle is drinks.
My husband and I are generally on the plan-of-attack mode - you order this and I'll order that. But beyond a few bites, we mostly keep to our own plates.
posted by amanda at 1:45 PM on October 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
My husband and I are generally on the plan-of-attack mode - you order this and I'll order that. But beyond a few bites, we mostly keep to our own plates.
posted by amanda at 1:45 PM on October 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
Don't mistake the flawed citations of outdated economic theory in the mainstream political discourse for mainstream economics.
posted by idiopath at 1:45 PM on October 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by idiopath at 1:45 PM on October 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
Limited analysis. Full food communism works even better with more participants, because everyone can express preferences and menu items they're torn between and find the most efficient possible communal food partner(s). On Warped Tour eating with a bunch (4-8) of other vegans on off days, we used this method to very effectively limit the number of wistful could-have-beens (the stakes are high when you're for example in like, Las Vegas, NV for probably the only time in the foreseeable future and the restaurant you're in has a whole array of unorthodox mock meats, e.g. Vegan scallops??).
posted by Gymnopedist at 1:47 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Gymnopedist at 1:47 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
I can't tell you how many first dates I've been on with men who didn't even offer to let me try their whatever.
Jesus. If the politics of dating has degenerated to where a guy gets seious demerits for merely not offering a taste of his "whatever," I'd fucking stay single. Fuck that noise.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:52 PM on October 2, 2016 [30 favorites]
Jesus. If the politics of dating has degenerated to where a guy gets seious demerits for merely not offering a taste of his "whatever," I'd fucking stay single. Fuck that noise.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:52 PM on October 2, 2016 [30 favorites]
What a shock, there's a field of study about people making choices. What a crazy ideology.
always interested in taxonomy, but I can't figure out whether this is better classified as Homo economicus ineducabilis or if the sarcasticus clade takes precedence
posted by RogerB at 2:01 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
always interested in taxonomy, but I can't figure out whether this is better classified as Homo economicus ineducabilis or if the sarcasticus clade takes precedence
posted by RogerB at 2:01 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
For dinners out, we fall solidly into option 3, which generally works well. But take out meals take on a decidedly soviet flavour, in this context at least. And that's fine, mostly, but you know what? Sometimes I just want some insipid pad thai, you know? And not three different edge-case curries that Mr. Rattery deems to be sufficiently "rigorous." Because to order pad thai or--worse yet--butter chicken is to admit defeat, according to Commissar Rattery of the Culinary Bureau. And we wouldn't want to let the Motherland down, now would we?
posted by Mrs. Rattery at 2:02 PM on October 2, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by Mrs. Rattery at 2:02 PM on October 2, 2016 [16 favorites]
Ok this is now interesting; let's suppose the debate over the politicization of economic schools (for people who haven't studied this concern, see e.g., Yanis Varoufakis) can be suspended--then what are the key recent developments in econ where interesting stuff is happening? What's new in the field in the last decade, new ideas that enhance the way we should think about and approach economics?
posted by polymodus at 2:02 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by polymodus at 2:02 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Something about a libertarian writer finding an instance where communism works and denying that it has wider applications makes me want to go all Chairman Mao.
posted by zompist at 2:07 PM on October 2, 2016 [29 favorites]
posted by zompist at 2:07 PM on October 2, 2016 [29 favorites]
Presumably network theory could be applied here: assemble a sufficiently large group of diners into a graph based on their preferences and use graph theoretic techniques to analyze clusters and maximize happiness.
Or maybe a Google AdWords-style auction where each item to be ordered is treated like advertising slots on the search engine results page and a second price sealed bid auction is run to determine the order, especially useful in cases where, say, N diners may split M appetizers or desserts, where N>M.
posted by zachlipton at 2:15 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Or maybe a Google AdWords-style auction where each item to be ordered is treated like advertising slots on the search engine results page and a second price sealed bid auction is run to determine the order, especially useful in cases where, say, N diners may split M appetizers or desserts, where N>M.
posted by zachlipton at 2:15 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Guardian has a regular Blind Date column on a Saturday, the daters are all asked the same questions afterwards. The default answer for 'good table manners?' seems to have evolved such that it requires an offer to share food. They're all from London of course so that might be part of it.
posted by biffa at 2:16 PM on October 2, 2016
posted by biffa at 2:16 PM on October 2, 2016
If the politics of dating has degenerated to where a guy gets seious demerits for merely not offering a taste of his "whatever,"....
That's what I'm choosing to blame for my long string of first dates, anyway.
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:22 PM on October 2, 2016
That's what I'm choosing to blame for my long string of first dates, anyway.
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:22 PM on October 2, 2016
Doesn't this depend heavily upon the restaurant and kind of cuisine? If it's an "order lots of small dishes" sort of affair then you'd be crazy not to go full communism - to the extent that I remember a waiter at a Lebanese restaurant getting annoyed with a table full of people ordering more or less the same things over and over again independently, and insisting that he'd go away until they worked what they wanted as a group (and preferably something more interesting than "twenty batata harra"). I'd find the whole jealously-guarding-dishes thing deeply weird and awkward in that scenario, but I'm much more likely to go for individual property rights (with trading) in straightforward starter->main->dessert restaurants where each course comes on its own single plate.
My partner is instinctively a somewhat less adventurous eater than I am, but that makes option 3 a much more fun choice, since there's lots of scope for comparative advantage. We have some sort of standing free-trade agreement in place regarding desserts.
posted by doop at 2:25 PM on October 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
My partner is instinctively a somewhat less adventurous eater than I am, but that makes option 3 a much more fun choice, since there's lots of scope for comparative advantage. We have some sort of standing free-trade agreement in place regarding desserts.
posted by doop at 2:25 PM on October 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm Chinese so the author's depiction of "family-style" eating is at once the expected norm, yet also a strangely foreign description: it's not a big deal because of the highly internalized etiquette ranging from when is it polite to take a chicken drumstick to who pours tea for whom. So formally this is a very superficial communism and the actual social dynamic at a Chinese table is worth a look on its own.
posted by polymodus at 2:38 PM on October 2, 2016 [38 favorites]
posted by polymodus at 2:38 PM on October 2, 2016 [38 favorites]
then he steals food off my plate, and then orders desser[t]
Mrs 43rd never wants dessert. Oh no, couldn't eat another thing. Far too full. Can't see anything I fancy. And it's bad for you. But go on, you order something and maybe, just maybe, I'll have one small mouthful. Just to see what it's like.
Half (or more-than-just-occasionally two-thirds) of a dessert later... No, I really don't want dessert, I just thought I'd try a mouthful of yours. Nice isn't it? So are you going to finish it, or just sit there grinding your teeth?
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 2:44 PM on October 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
Mrs 43rd never wants dessert. Oh no, couldn't eat another thing. Far too full. Can't see anything I fancy. And it's bad for you. But go on, you order something and maybe, just maybe, I'll have one small mouthful. Just to see what it's like.
Half (or more-than-just-occasionally two-thirds) of a dessert later... No, I really don't want dessert, I just thought I'd try a mouthful of yours. Nice isn't it? So are you going to finish it, or just sit there grinding your teeth?
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 2:44 PM on October 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
Jesus. If the politics of dating has degenerated to where a guy gets seious demerits for merely not offering a taste of his "whatever," I'd fucking stay single. Fuck that noise.
One person said that, as an individual preference. Dating has always been, and will always be like that. One person you date might not want a second date because you chewed too loud; the next person might be turned off because you bear too much resemblance to someone she knew and didn't like in high school; the next might because you ordered scotch instead of whiskey. People have their quirks and pet peeves, and even if they don't make sense to you, well - that's how dating works.
And more to the point, every time I see a woman express one that she dare has one of these perfectly human quirks, even if it's done as throw-away humor, I see dozens of men falling over themselves to respond in anger that she's not being fair and overcomplicating courtship. Jesus, it's dating, not a job application. She doesn't have to be perfectly fair in assessing your merits as a partner.
posted by Conspire at 3:05 PM on October 2, 2016 [70 favorites]
One person said that, as an individual preference. Dating has always been, and will always be like that. One person you date might not want a second date because you chewed too loud; the next person might be turned off because you bear too much resemblance to someone she knew and didn't like in high school; the next might because you ordered scotch instead of whiskey. People have their quirks and pet peeves, and even if they don't make sense to you, well - that's how dating works.
And more to the point, every time I see a woman express one that she dare has one of these perfectly human quirks, even if it's done as throw-away humor, I see dozens of men falling over themselves to respond in anger that she's not being fair and overcomplicating courtship. Jesus, it's dating, not a job application. She doesn't have to be perfectly fair in assessing your merits as a partner.
posted by Conspire at 3:05 PM on October 2, 2016 [70 favorites]
The heading of this post is wrong.
posted by John Cohen at 3:11 PM on October 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by John Cohen at 3:11 PM on October 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
This has never been a problem for me with relationships. However, it has been a problem with friends -- usually when a self-styled "foodie" insists on eating family-style or ordering for the table. I tend to eat a bit more than most people and don't like having my choices constrained by what others want -- especially when the weird things they like differ from the weird things I like. I pretty much always walk away from the meal hungry and have to stop for a bite on my way home or hit up the fridge for a midnight snack.
When dining with a romantic partner, I pretty much always opt for the "individual production with trade" option, and I don't think it's the end of the world if both people order the same thing.
posted by panama joe at 3:15 PM on October 2, 2016
When dining with a romantic partner, I pretty much always opt for the "individual production with trade" option, and I don't think it's the end of the world if both people order the same thing.
posted by panama joe at 3:15 PM on October 2, 2016
The heading of this post is wrong.
If we can discuss the economics of dining, certainly we can discuss the politics of dancing.
posted by GuyZero at 3:23 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
If we can discuss the economics of dining, certainly we can discuss the politics of dancing.
posted by GuyZero at 3:23 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Then stay away from my plate stabby stab stab. My bacon! Mine!
I like to imagine that this was a line from the unproduced 4th season of Hannibal.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:42 PM on October 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
I like to imagine that this was a line from the unproduced 4th season of Hannibal.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:42 PM on October 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
sio42: "Me and dude are pretty good at this without even discussing it much. We generally just decide to forgo any appetizer and just share entree. Or else get a really good app and share a salad or single entrée. We figured out early on we both have much bigger eyes than tummies.
Unless it's brunch. Then stay away from my plate stabby stab stab. My bacon! Mine!"
That goes double for my blueberry waffles.
posted by Splunge at 3:50 PM on October 2, 2016
Unless it's brunch. Then stay away from my plate stabby stab stab. My bacon! Mine!"
That goes double for my blueberry waffles.
posted by Splunge at 3:50 PM on October 2, 2016
Pre-emptive War: This is where you fling food at your partner whether they want it or not.
Defensive War: This is where you fling food at food that has been flung at you in hopes of knocking it out of the air.
Mutually assured Dinner: Where you both fling all of your food at the other person.
Border skirmish: you fling salad that you didn't want anyway.
Sabotage: You fling condiments or seasonings at the other person's plate.
The Cyber: You instagram your companion's food as if it was your own.
posted by srboisvert at 3:51 PM on October 2, 2016 [19 favorites]
Defensive War: This is where you fling food at food that has been flung at you in hopes of knocking it out of the air.
Mutually assured Dinner: Where you both fling all of your food at the other person.
Border skirmish: you fling salad that you didn't want anyway.
Sabotage: You fling condiments or seasonings at the other person's plate.
The Cyber: You instagram your companion's food as if it was your own.
posted by srboisvert at 3:51 PM on October 2, 2016 [19 favorites]
It took me six months and several post dinner glares from my sister-in-law before I got that "ooo, that looks delicious" was code for "can I have a bite of what you have there?"
It also cleared up the question of why my brother would snicker and snort whenever I would reply "thank you, yes it is," and continue eating.
posted by Mooski at 4:01 PM on October 2, 2016 [20 favorites]
It also cleared up the question of why my brother would snicker and snort whenever I would reply "thank you, yes it is," and continue eating.
posted by Mooski at 4:01 PM on October 2, 2016 [20 favorites]
this is so funny. hanging out and dating restaurant people, its full communism all day, every day no matter the number of people. The problem of not getting your share is solved by over ordering. I'm not sure how I would react to someone refusing a taste of their food.
posted by [tk] at 4:05 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by [tk] at 4:05 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Communist" dining is all well and good for couples, but when I'm out with 6 colleagues and they decide it's a good idea, I get a little aggressive in the fork department. (I don't mind sharing, but I don't necessarily want to share my own dietary restrictions, nor to know about those of my colleagues, and really what I most don't want is an hour long negotiation before we just order something already; this is inevitable with people you don't know well).
posted by nat at 4:05 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by nat at 4:05 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Generally my wife and I will order two things we both want. When it comes we'll split each in half and exchange. Two distinct half-meals! The only difficulty is when we want to order the same thing...
posted by zardoz at 4:15 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zardoz at 4:15 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Funny" pieces like this are always, however inadvertently or unconsciously, great illustrations of how mainstream economics is a total ideology masquerading as, or superimposed over, an empirical social science. It aims at a complete transformation of the self — you have to become the kind of person who's thinking about game theory while eating with their family. It's homo economicus in ha-ha-only-serious form.
I don't understand this comment. Can you explain what you mean, using an example from the article?
posted by Kwine at 4:24 PM on October 2, 2016
I don't understand this comment. Can you explain what you mean, using an example from the article?
posted by Kwine at 4:24 PM on October 2, 2016
I like to imagine that this was a line from the unproduced 4th season of Hannibal.
And now I'm imagining the Hannibal version of this...
TheEconomics Stages of Dining as a (Cannibal) couple
1. Blissful ignorance: You lovingly make your intended a scrumptious meal of human flesh. Your beloved is none the wiser regarding the origins of their "steak" tartare. You pass the time by making cannibal puns about how you'd love to have so-and-so for dinner.
Who this strategy is good for: This is perfect for the just getting to know you stage.
2. Denial: Your beloved begins to realize that you seem a little too fond of cannibalism puns, and perhaps their's a reason why all those meats have a distinct but "can't quite put my finger on it" flavor.
Who this strategy is good for: When you're past the getting to know you phase, but you're not yet ready for the "Just fyi I enjoy killing and cannibalizing people and btw everything you've eaten in my home is people" conversation.
3. Courtship: Your intended brings you an offering of human flesh. Together, you cook said human flesh and then dine in your ridiculously lavish dining room, while having eye sex and sharing jokes about "long pig." There may or may not be kitchen sex
Who this strategy is good for: You're not quite ready to lay it all out on the table (so to speak), but you've reached the "I know you know" and "You know I know you know" phase.
4. The couple that kills together stays together: Like a pair of rabid wolves, you and your intended target and take down your prey. You may or may not have time to cook the prey, however, because the FBI could be there any minute.
Who this strategy is good for: You're done with the puns and the denial, and you're ready to ride off into the sunset together.
posted by litera scripta manet at 4:25 PM on October 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
And now I'm imagining the Hannibal version of this...
The
1. Blissful ignorance: You lovingly make your intended a scrumptious meal of human flesh. Your beloved is none the wiser regarding the origins of their "steak" tartare. You pass the time by making cannibal puns about how you'd love to have so-and-so for dinner.
Who this strategy is good for: This is perfect for the just getting to know you stage.
2. Denial: Your beloved begins to realize that you seem a little too fond of cannibalism puns, and perhaps their's a reason why all those meats have a distinct but "can't quite put my finger on it" flavor.
Who this strategy is good for: When you're past the getting to know you phase, but you're not yet ready for the "Just fyi I enjoy killing and cannibalizing people and btw everything you've eaten in my home is people" conversation.
3. Courtship: Your intended brings you an offering of human flesh. Together, you cook said human flesh and then dine in your ridiculously lavish dining room, while having eye sex and sharing jokes about "long pig." There may or may not be kitchen sex
Who this strategy is good for: You're not quite ready to lay it all out on the table (so to speak), but you've reached the "I know you know" and "You know I know you know" phase.
4. The couple that kills together stays together: Like a pair of rabid wolves, you and your intended target and take down your prey. You may or may not have time to cook the prey, however, because the FBI could be there any minute.
Who this strategy is good for: You're done with the puns and the denial, and you're ready to ride off into the sunset together.
posted by litera scripta manet at 4:25 PM on October 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
Communism is all well and good, until it comes to just desserts (I don't like sharing mine).
posted by Dashy at 4:37 PM on October 2, 2016
posted by Dashy at 4:37 PM on October 2, 2016
Oh god Communist dining is my nightmare. I'm not sure if its the "compromising" — aka eating less of what I like so I can eat some of the dreck you ordered —, the negotiations, a hangover from when I was vegetarian and people wouldn't leave enough of the veggie entrees, but any time people want to share it is a nightmare. I have definitely refused dinner invites if I see sharing in the offing. The only exception is sometimes my husband and I will order sandwiches with one salad side and one fries and each eat half but otherwise, no. I will eat my food.
posted by dame at 4:42 PM on October 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by dame at 4:42 PM on October 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
Also asking for a bite of food from someone whose tongue you don't regularly find in our your mouth or who gave birth to you is Not Cool.
posted by dame at 4:44 PM on October 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by dame at 4:44 PM on October 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
If the politics of dating has degenerated to where a guy gets seious demerits for merely not offering a taste of his "whatever,"
I look at it as a compatibility screener. Both autarkists and communists are entitled to their preferences, but they don't really mix well.
I like sharing. It's how my family opperates when we go out to dinner. But I wouldn't want someone to be constantly irritated because they felt compelled to share food. So if I was dating I'd hope that a hardcore non-sharer would not reciprocate my offer of food. No harm no foul, we each get to go our separate ways. It's just easier to be married to a fellow dining communist. Obviously an autarkist would prefer another autarkist, unless they were really a colonialist who just wanted to take without reciprocation.
My husband and I each get a kick when the other loves the dish we ordered and happily split, or sometimes just switch if the other person clearly likes it more than the original orderer.
posted by ghost phoneme at 5:01 PM on October 2, 2016
I look at it as a compatibility screener. Both autarkists and communists are entitled to their preferences, but they don't really mix well.
I like sharing. It's how my family opperates when we go out to dinner. But I wouldn't want someone to be constantly irritated because they felt compelled to share food. So if I was dating I'd hope that a hardcore non-sharer would not reciprocate my offer of food. No harm no foul, we each get to go our separate ways. It's just easier to be married to a fellow dining communist. Obviously an autarkist would prefer another autarkist, unless they were really a colonialist who just wanted to take without reciprocation.
My husband and I each get a kick when the other loves the dish we ordered and happily split, or sometimes just switch if the other person clearly likes it more than the original orderer.
posted by ghost phoneme at 5:01 PM on October 2, 2016
> I'm Chinese so the author's depiction of "family-style" eating is at once the expected norm, yet also a strangely foreign description: it's not a big deal because of the highly internalized etiquette ranging from when is it polite to take a chicken drumstick to who pours tea for whom
Yeah, I really like sharing food but I feel like it is reliant on all of the parties being almost more invested in ensuring everyone else enjoys the meal than in their own dining.
This is another reason why dim sum is the perfect meal though. Everything is already divided, the individual portions are small so you're guaranteed a wide variety along with your favourites, and if you don't like a particular one that's fine, because you've ordered so much you actually kinda wish they'd stop coming around with it and things are starting to hurt but look it's the cheong fun trolley.
posted by lucidium at 5:02 PM on October 2, 2016 [16 favorites]
Yeah, I really like sharing food but I feel like it is reliant on all of the parties being almost more invested in ensuring everyone else enjoys the meal than in their own dining.
This is another reason why dim sum is the perfect meal though. Everything is already divided, the individual portions are small so you're guaranteed a wide variety along with your favourites, and if you don't like a particular one that's fine, because you've ordered so much you actually kinda wish they'd stop coming around with it and things are starting to hurt but look it's the cheong fun trolley.
posted by lucidium at 5:02 PM on October 2, 2016 [16 favorites]
Oh, and that's definitely the rule. You offer food, you don't ask (unless they're close family/friends who you know are cool with dining communism...even then you should really just initiate by offering your own food up).
posted by ghost phoneme at 5:05 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ghost phoneme at 5:05 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
The couple that kills together stays together:
Sigh. "The couple that slays together..."
Every cannibal couple know this!
Um, or so... I've heard... from a cannibal I... um... met on a plane once.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:28 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sigh. "The couple that slays together..."
Every cannibal couple know this!
Um, or so... I've heard... from a cannibal I... um... met on a plane once.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:28 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also came in to say that Asia has got this seriously figured out, what with chopsticks and bitesize food. You end up sharing food with near strangers because why not. Dining in Asia feels much more harmonious than dining in North America (land of sandwiches, steaks and burgers).
posted by mantecol at 5:51 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by mantecol at 5:51 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
I find the idea of someone taking my food without asking, or even just placing the expectation that I have to share to be honestly enraging. It is to me, a casual violation of a very important boundary. In reading this I felt that yes, a fork stabbing followed by an apology is, if extreme, certainly illustrative of the correct dynamic. I don't have any grand social or political theory about it. Mostly it's just a combination of a more-or-less under control personality disorder and the fact that I've lived alone too long.
posted by Grimgrin at 5:52 PM on October 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Grimgrin at 5:52 PM on October 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
I must be in a 3rd world relationship because all of the best part of both of our meals goes to the ruthless overlords who exploit our labor and give nothing in return but their beatific beaming presence.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:58 PM on October 2, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:58 PM on October 2, 2016 [12 favorites]
Jesus. If the politics of dating has degenerated to where a guy gets seious demerits for merely not offering a taste of his "whatever," I'd fucking stay single. Fuck that noise.
I admit I was being super bitchy in how I phrased that, because I thought it was funnier, but it's not really about demerit points so much as it is about compatibility. I am a serious food sharer and serial restaurant tryer -- some of my best memories are going out with my friends from Chowhound and ordering one each of an entire menu to be shared among the table. One of my friends can divide a doughnut, a samosa or a empanada into a prime number of evenly sized pieces and amongst our kind, she is considered a goddess.
I don't have any interest in dating people who aren't into food as a shared experience in the same way I'm not into dating guys who are big into hiking. It's not because hiking a lot makes them bad people, it's because hiking a lot makes them incompatible with my lazy ass.
I will pretty much always offer anyone I'm dining with a taste of what I'm eating if it is in any way interesting and readily shareable (which is pretty much anything that doesn't come in sandwich form) and I do expect that they'll reciprocate that offer, because if they don't, we're probably not going to be happy eating together.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:03 PM on October 2, 2016 [25 favorites]
I admit I was being super bitchy in how I phrased that, because I thought it was funnier, but it's not really about demerit points so much as it is about compatibility. I am a serious food sharer and serial restaurant tryer -- some of my best memories are going out with my friends from Chowhound and ordering one each of an entire menu to be shared among the table. One of my friends can divide a doughnut, a samosa or a empanada into a prime number of evenly sized pieces and amongst our kind, she is considered a goddess.
I don't have any interest in dating people who aren't into food as a shared experience in the same way I'm not into dating guys who are big into hiking. It's not because hiking a lot makes them bad people, it's because hiking a lot makes them incompatible with my lazy ass.
I will pretty much always offer anyone I'm dining with a taste of what I'm eating if it is in any way interesting and readily shareable (which is pretty much anything that doesn't come in sandwich form) and I do expect that they'll reciprocate that offer, because if they don't, we're probably not going to be happy eating together.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:03 PM on October 2, 2016 [25 favorites]
I feel like I've stumbled onto an alien planet. I guess we're autarkists, but it's more because we honestly just have different tastes for what we like, and it doesn't occur to us to share or try some kind of complicated negotiation. Our negotiation comes at the restaurant choice stage, which is usually solved by either 1) which place with the kids menu we both not totally sick of at the moment, 2) whether one of us has a mad craving that needs to be itched, and 3) naming things we don't want to eat until we land on a mutually agreeable option. By the time the restaurant is chosen we both usually have some idea of what we each want in mind, and it's rarely the same thing. Like, I wouldn't stab my husband with a fork for trying to grab a bite off my plate, but the times he's ever wanted a bite from my plate in the last thirteen years can probably be counted on one hand. And vice versa. I suppose this is one weird relationship test thing we've never actually put any thought into that actually makes us super compatible, go figure.
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 6:39 PM on October 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 6:39 PM on October 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
My wife and I do something like this, but since we won't sit at the same table (we need ten feet of distance), sharing our meals means a lot of yelling, precision morsel tossing, and unfair lifetime bans for being weird eaters.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:40 PM on October 2, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:40 PM on October 2, 2016 [8 favorites]
Honey, we can't post at the same time! I'll back up ten feet, you get the frittes ready. Extra mayo this time - a lot fell off last round.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:42 PM on October 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:42 PM on October 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
And more to the point, every time I see a woman express one that she dare has one of these perfectly human quirks, even if it's done as throw-away humor, I see dozens of men falling over themselves to respond in anger that she's not being fair and overcomplicating courtship. Jesus, it's dating, not a job application. She doesn't have to be perfectly fair in assessing your merits as a partner.
I suspect that this is not a gender-specific issue.
posted by she's not there at 6:44 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
I suspect that this is not a gender-specific issue.
posted by she's not there at 6:44 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you wanted what was on my plate why didn't you order it yourself? I find this whole sharing thing to be kind of bizarre. I ordered what I ordered because I want to eat it.
posted by AFABulous at 6:53 PM on October 2, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by AFABulous at 6:53 PM on October 2, 2016 [13 favorites]
(I am divorced)
posted by AFABulous at 6:53 PM on October 2, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by AFABulous at 6:53 PM on October 2, 2016 [19 favorites]
I am a very picky eater, which I believe makes me an autarkist.
That being said, if I ever meet someone who shares the same dietary preferences (doesn't like sour cream, mayonnaise, mustard, ketchup, cilantro, pickles, bean sprouts, water chestnuts and dark meat), I will be more than happy to share.
posted by invisible ink at 7:02 PM on October 2, 2016
That being said, if I ever meet someone who shares the same dietary preferences (doesn't like sour cream, mayonnaise, mustard, ketchup, cilantro, pickles, bean sprouts, water chestnuts and dark meat), I will be more than happy to share.
posted by invisible ink at 7:02 PM on October 2, 2016
My boyfriend and I generally order individually (with options) but he's more of a novelty-seeker than I am, to the point where he'll scramble to find something different if it looks we're about to order the same thing. In those cases, I make him order first so that he can't change it and then we both get the food that we actually want (even if it's the same dish). I call this the benevolent dictatorship.
posted by yeahlikethat at 7:04 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by yeahlikethat at 7:04 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
People, you've got to privatize the profits and socialize the losses. Eat in a group, order the most expensive dishes, then demand to split the check equally among all.
posted by Napoleonic Terrier at 7:29 PM on October 2, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Napoleonic Terrier at 7:29 PM on October 2, 2016 [6 favorites]
it doesn't occur to us to share or try some kind of complicated negotiation
In our case it's not so much a negotiation, but a way to help narrow down our options even further. Unless one of us is in the mood for something specific, we can be a bit indecisive, especially at a new restaurant. So if I wan to try A, B, and C, but he wants A, C, and E, now we have our answer. We like a lot of the same food, so it's convenient.
If you wanted what was on my plate why didn't you order it yourself?
It's not just about your plate, or in my case, my husbands plate (the article is about SOs sharing, I like to share with friends too, but it's not a requirement for all my dining companions). It's usually about what's on my plate. Like what someone mentioned earlier, you're invested in other people's experience. I have this awesome dish in front of me, I want to share that experience. If I order a dish that my husband tastes, and he gets that "This is the best thing ever look," then I've won. And as a benevolent victor, I will happily split the dish with him. My husband feels the same way, so it works.
Intellectually I get that people order what they want, but I usually want to try everything, so sharing gets me (and everyone else who feels similarly) there faster. But dinner with non-sharers is still fun, since dinner with friends isn't just about the food. I just have more fun when sharing.
posted by ghost phoneme at 7:45 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
In our case it's not so much a negotiation, but a way to help narrow down our options even further. Unless one of us is in the mood for something specific, we can be a bit indecisive, especially at a new restaurant. So if I wan to try A, B, and C, but he wants A, C, and E, now we have our answer. We like a lot of the same food, so it's convenient.
If you wanted what was on my plate why didn't you order it yourself?
It's not just about your plate, or in my case, my husbands plate (the article is about SOs sharing, I like to share with friends too, but it's not a requirement for all my dining companions). It's usually about what's on my plate. Like what someone mentioned earlier, you're invested in other people's experience. I have this awesome dish in front of me, I want to share that experience. If I order a dish that my husband tastes, and he gets that "This is the best thing ever look," then I've won. And as a benevolent victor, I will happily split the dish with him. My husband feels the same way, so it works.
Intellectually I get that people order what they want, but I usually want to try everything, so sharing gets me (and everyone else who feels similarly) there faster. But dinner with non-sharers is still fun, since dinner with friends isn't just about the food. I just have more fun when sharing.
posted by ghost phoneme at 7:45 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
I suspect that this is not a gender-specific issue.Can you imagine a man being mocked simply because he wouldn't date a woman who refused to taste food from his plate, or who ate peas one at a time, or who liked a commercial that he hated, or who had "man hands"?
I suspect even his closest friends wouldn't offer any intervention less passive than a simple "Your standards are too high," although perhaps more distant observers would somehow notice a pattern and find it a fit subject for discussions mixed from annoyance and amusement.
posted by roystgnr at 8:08 PM on October 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
In our house, my husband does the cooking, and doesn't make things he doesn't like (seafood, for example), so that's what I get whenever we go out, so he has no interest in my food.
Meanwhile, he almost always gets some variation of chicken sandwich, so I have no interest in his food.
It's worked for the last almost 20 years.
posted by Lucinda at 8:09 PM on October 2, 2016
Meanwhile, he almost always gets some variation of chicken sandwich, so I have no interest in his food.
It's worked for the last almost 20 years.
posted by Lucinda at 8:09 PM on October 2, 2016
It is interesting to consider sharing in terms of indecision. I have pretty much never gone to a restaurant and been unsure about what I wanted to order. In fact, I tend to eat the same few things at each restaurant I frequent. (I'm not super picky and I will eat at a lot of different types of places, but I usually have a preference once I have eaten there a few times.) My best friend, on the other hand, never knows what she wants. I can see how if it is all the same to you, you might want to share. I guess.
posted by dame at 8:13 PM on October 2, 2016
posted by dame at 8:13 PM on October 2, 2016
I must be in a 3rd world relationship because all of the best part of both of our meals goes to the ruthless overlords who exploit our labor and give nothing in return but their beatific beaming presence.
Darn kids
posted by bq at 8:32 PM on October 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
Darn kids
posted by bq at 8:32 PM on October 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am an adventurous eater married into a family of 'I'll have the steak'. This puts me in the extremely advantageous position of ordering something I can guarantee no one else at the table will want, while being able to offer it freely and accept nibbles of prime rib and roasted vegetables free of cost.
posted by bq at 8:35 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by bq at 8:35 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you and your date aren't drunkenly smooshing pie into each other's faces by dessert, you're doing it wrong.
posted by zippy at 8:43 PM on October 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by zippy at 8:43 PM on October 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
Like what someone mentioned earlier, you're invested in other people's experience.
No. I, and my wife, always find it weird when people are really interested in what we're eating and talking about their meal. It's just not that interesting beyond, "this is good/bad". She is a fork stabber, but I don't really care if you want some of my food, I just think it's really weird that you'd ask. We share with each other if the other is really interested, but it rarely comes up.
Extremely un-invested. We're there to have food and share our company, not share our food. All of that is worked out when we order.
posted by bongo_x at 9:01 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
No. I, and my wife, always find it weird when people are really interested in what we're eating and talking about their meal. It's just not that interesting beyond, "this is good/bad". She is a fork stabber, but I don't really care if you want some of my food, I just think it's really weird that you'd ask. We share with each other if the other is really interested, but it rarely comes up.
Extremely un-invested. We're there to have food and share our company, not share our food. All of that is worked out when we order.
posted by bongo_x at 9:01 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
It really depends on what/where you're eating. An expensive gourmet type restaurant is definitely communism time (irony). But a cheesesteak kiosk? Soup stand? Baseball game? It all depends.
My2c: It has nothing to do with marriage. Any time you're eating with anyone anywhere that has good food, you should get a good variety of the best stuff and share it all. No brainer (ignoring dietary restrictions and people who don't like cilantro--I don't trust them.)
posted by mrgrimm at 9:12 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
My2c: It has nothing to do with marriage. Any time you're eating with anyone anywhere that has good food, you should get a good variety of the best stuff and share it all. No brainer (ignoring dietary restrictions and people who don't like cilantro--I don't trust them.)
posted by mrgrimm at 9:12 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's not so much that it's all the same as that it's all wonderfully different. I like trying new things. Sometimes that means I'll get a dish that turns out isn't to my taste, but if it's well prepared, I'll generally still be happy I tried it. I even keep trying cilantro in an effort to past the soap thing because my husband likes it, and it sounds delicious the way he describes it. ( I'm getting there!)
But yes, "it's all the same" in the sense that I'll be happy to eat one of a few different options all by myself. I'm just happiest sharing options with others (who feel the same! This is key).
Basically, if I have food, I'm happy. Delaying my access to food by being indecisive/picky/shooting down all my suggestions but refusing to come up with your own is about the only way I am going have a bad time. I cannot guarantee the general public's safety if this happens.
posted by ghost phoneme at 9:28 PM on October 2, 2016
But yes, "it's all the same" in the sense that I'll be happy to eat one of a few different options all by myself. I'm just happiest sharing options with others (who feel the same! This is key).
Basically, if I have food, I'm happy. Delaying my access to food by being indecisive/picky/shooting down all my suggestions but refusing to come up with your own is about the only way I am going have a bad time. I cannot guarantee the general public's safety if this happens.
posted by ghost phoneme at 9:28 PM on October 2, 2016
I wish I had realized early on that my former spouse's consistent track record of eating all or most of anything we shared was a red flag. Movie drink that is ginormous? He'd drink the entire thing and not even notice that I hadn't had a sip. Sharing fries? He'd just eat them all. He consistently told me that I shouldn't share if I wasn't going to look out for my portion. All this time later, I realize that it was a big red flag for his struggles with empathy and boundaries, as well as his inability to understand that he should be looking out for my needsh. He turned out to be very abusive. But, back then, he had me convinced I was doing something wrong with our meals or drinks or popcorn...even though I'd never had this problem in any other relationship.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 9:36 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 9:36 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
I can't take seriously someone who never touches on the need for an early decision about what kind of wine you're going to drink, let alone one who thinks a bite of sole goes great with steak. This is like an eight year old who can't see why ice cream with sausages isn't just the best food ever!
posted by Segundus at 9:41 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Segundus at 9:41 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
I just started dating someone, and have spent a lot of time off the Blue. Y'all are really trying to make me go crazy and ruin my relationship with this type of article, so then I could post about it on AskMeFi so y'all can weigh in on it. Pass!
posted by yueliang at 9:54 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by yueliang at 9:54 PM on October 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
people who don't like cilantro--I don't trust them.
Yep, we the Soap Tasters are not to be trusted. It's part of our secret code to never tell a Cilantro Eater when they have a humongous piece stuck in between their teeth.
posted by invisible ink at 10:07 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yep, we the Soap Tasters are not to be trusted. It's part of our secret code to never tell a Cilantro Eater when they have a humongous piece stuck in between their teeth.
posted by invisible ink at 10:07 PM on October 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
It is interesting to consider sharing in terms of indecision.
That makes this all seem so much clearer; neither of us are indecisive people, especially about food, because we don't care a lot about food beyond "does it taste ok". We also go out to eat often enough that we both figure if we don't love what we're having one night we'll probably have an opportunity to try something different at the same restaurant soon enough, so sharing isn't on our radar. Maybe another factor is we live in a tourist city that has a ridiculous number of restaurants, many of which are quite good, none of which are super fancy gourmet, so it's hard to go wrong with a food choice, but none of it is life changing good.
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 12:00 AM on October 3, 2016
That makes this all seem so much clearer; neither of us are indecisive people, especially about food, because we don't care a lot about food beyond "does it taste ok". We also go out to eat often enough that we both figure if we don't love what we're having one night we'll probably have an opportunity to try something different at the same restaurant soon enough, so sharing isn't on our radar. Maybe another factor is we live in a tourist city that has a ridiculous number of restaurants, many of which are quite good, none of which are super fancy gourmet, so it's hard to go wrong with a food choice, but none of it is life changing good.
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 12:00 AM on October 3, 2016
Appetizers and desserts are for sharing. New and interesting entrees may also by shared. But come across the table when I am at Favorite Place eating Favorite Thing and I will fucking cut you.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 2:38 AM on October 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by BitterOldPunk at 2:38 AM on October 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
For dining as a group I can recommend the "Dessert Buddy" treaty.
This is a binding agreement between two people (though, or course multiple treaties can exist) wherby if party a wants to have dessert then party b is obligated to also order some dessert.
This avoids the situation of anyone being the only person to want dessert (and therefore not ordering any, because no one wants to be 1 person on a table of 5 eating dessert).
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 2:40 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is a binding agreement between two people (though, or course multiple treaties can exist) wherby if party a wants to have dessert then party b is obligated to also order some dessert.
This avoids the situation of anyone being the only person to want dessert (and therefore not ordering any, because no one wants to be 1 person on a table of 5 eating dessert).
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 2:40 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
royster: Can you imagine a man being mocked simply because he wouldn't date a woman who refused to taste food from his plate, or who ate peas one at a time, or who liked a commercial that he hated, or who had "man hands"?
Imagine it? I've done it, i.e., mocked men who do things that strike me as "mockable".
(Also, the fact that Jerry wouldn't "date a woman who refused to taste food from his plate, or who ate peas one at a time, or who liked a commercial that he hated, or who had "man hands"" was a running joke on Seinfeld that, in fact, mocked the character he was playing. Whether or not Eileen, George, or Kramer gave him serious grief about this is irrelevant, given that the show was about a less-than-upstanding collection of characters that viewers weren't expected to identify with.)
posted by she's not there at 4:53 AM on October 3, 2016
Imagine it? I've done it, i.e., mocked men who do things that strike me as "mockable".
(Also, the fact that Jerry wouldn't "date a woman who refused to taste food from his plate, or who ate peas one at a time, or who liked a commercial that he hated, or who had "man hands"" was a running joke on Seinfeld that, in fact, mocked the character he was playing. Whether or not Eileen, George, or Kramer gave him serious grief about this is irrelevant, given that the show was about a less-than-upstanding collection of characters that viewers weren't expected to identify with.)
posted by she's not there at 4:53 AM on October 3, 2016
No, no, no... cooking at home is when everyone has to agree on a meal. Dining at a restaurant is the time when you get to eat whatever you want without regard to what your partner wants!
I'm fairly certain Virginia Woolf wrote an essay about this.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 5:02 AM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm fairly certain Virginia Woolf wrote an essay about this.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 5:02 AM on October 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Something about a libertarian writer finding an instance where communism works and denying that it has wider applications makes me want to go all Chairman Mao.
Something about a liberal website not distinguishing between government and individuals makes me want to go all Milton Friedman.
posted by John Cohen at 6:11 AM on October 3, 2016
Something about a liberal website not distinguishing between government and individuals makes me want to go all Milton Friedman.
posted by John Cohen at 6:11 AM on October 3, 2016
No mention here of the forced taste, where the offer cannot be refused? I am often quite content with my meal, and while my spouse will have no interest in my food, I will be asked if I want to try a bite. 'It's yummy, would you like to try it?'
No, no I don't. If I wanted that I would have ordered it. I don't care to mix flavors.
And somehow this becomes a personal judgement, that I won't try the offered bite. So we compromise by the question getting asked less frequently, and me agreeing to the tasting if it does get asked.
posted by HycoSpeed at 6:32 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
No, no I don't. If I wanted that I would have ordered it. I don't care to mix flavors.
And somehow this becomes a personal judgement, that I won't try the offered bite. So we compromise by the question getting asked less frequently, and me agreeing to the tasting if it does get asked.
posted by HycoSpeed at 6:32 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Offering or sharing food from my plate (as opposed to just sharing a snack I've brought along somewhere) actually feels fairly intimate to me - it's not something I would do on a first date with a stranger.
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:05 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by needs more cowbell at 8:05 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Something about a liberal website not distinguishing between government and individuals makes me want to go all Milton Friedman.
Yeah, there are some really embarassing comments in this thread w/r/t economics. Like this howler:
"great illustrations of how mainstream economics is a total ideology masquerading as, or superimposed over, an empirical social science. "
1) this article isn't about 'mainstream' economics. (althought to be fair I don't know what that is)
2) it is not written by an economist, but a journalist
3) its an article primarily about theory, not empirics. Also how does this jibe with the oft-repeated and erroneous claim that economists don't study actual reality and only care about models.
4) by any reasonable criteria, the discipline of economics is social science.
All of this ignorance makes sense if you replace 'economist' with 'libertarian'.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 8:23 AM on October 3, 2016
Yeah, there are some really embarassing comments in this thread w/r/t economics. Like this howler:
"great illustrations of how mainstream economics is a total ideology masquerading as, or superimposed over, an empirical social science. "
1) this article isn't about 'mainstream' economics. (althought to be fair I don't know what that is)
2) it is not written by an economist, but a journalist
3) its an article primarily about theory, not empirics. Also how does this jibe with the oft-repeated and erroneous claim that economists don't study actual reality and only care about models.
4) by any reasonable criteria, the discipline of economics is social science.
All of this ignorance makes sense if you replace 'economist' with 'libertarian'.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 8:23 AM on October 3, 2016
Something about a liberal website not distinguishing between government and individuals makes me want to go all Milton Friedman.
... what about not distinguishing between a website and individuals?
posted by ODiV at 8:38 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
... what about not distinguishing between a website and individuals?
posted by ODiV at 8:38 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I laughed at the article, but don't understand why the author 1) felt the need to be all prescriptive about it rather than just describing different philosophies. 2) Made it about romantic couples rather than any people who enjoy dining together.
The advantages of any of these approaches depend on what's on the menu and how the participants feel about it. I am generally a full-on communist...with like-minded diners; I also often go halfsies...when this solves the problem of "ooh, I want this as much as I want that!" I don't MAKE people share. Jesus.
posted by desuetude at 8:45 AM on October 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
The advantages of any of these approaches depend on what's on the menu and how the participants feel about it. I am generally a full-on communist...with like-minded diners; I also often go halfsies...when this solves the problem of "ooh, I want this as much as I want that!" I don't MAKE people share. Jesus.
posted by desuetude at 8:45 AM on October 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
I feel like I've stumbled onto an alien planet. I guess we're autarkists, but it's more because we honestly just have different tastes for what we like, and it doesn't occur to us to share or try some kind of complicated negotiation. Our negotiation comes at the restaurant choice stage, which is usually solved by either 1) which place with the kids menu we both not totally sick of at the moment, 2) whether one of us has a mad craving that needs to be itched, and 3) naming things we don't want to eat until we land on a mutually agreeable option. By the time the restaurant is chosen we both usually have some idea of what we each want in mind, and it's rarely the same thing. Like, I wouldn't stab my husband with a fork for trying to grab a bite off my plate, but the times he's ever wanted a bite from my plate in the last thirteen years can probably be counted on one hand. And vice versa. I suppose this is one weird relationship test thing we've never actually put any thought into that actually makes us super compatible, go figure.
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 9:39 PM on October 2 [3 favorites −] [!]
My wife and I do something like this, but since we won't sit at the same table (we need ten feet of distance), sharing our meals means a lot of yelling, precision morsel tossing, and unfair lifetime bans for being weird eaters.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:40 PM on October 2 [7 favorites −] [!]
Honey, we can't post at the same time! I'll back up ten feet, you get the frittes ready. Extra mayo this time - a lot fell off last round.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:42 PM on October 2 [6 favorites −] [!]
Talk about compatibility. That was adorable.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 9:41 AM on October 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 9:39 PM on October 2 [3 favorites −] [!]
My wife and I do something like this, but since we won't sit at the same table (we need ten feet of distance), sharing our meals means a lot of yelling, precision morsel tossing, and unfair lifetime bans for being weird eaters.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:40 PM on October 2 [7 favorites −] [!]
Honey, we can't post at the same time! I'll back up ten feet, you get the frittes ready. Extra mayo this time - a lot fell off last round.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:42 PM on October 2 [6 favorites −] [!]
Talk about compatibility. That was adorable.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 9:41 AM on October 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
I don't think we were ever autarkists, but our tastes are different enough that if we are hungry enough for full individual meals we're likely to just offer tastes and that's all. These days we seem to alternate between getting two different sandwiches (usually a French dip for one) and swap halves and just splitting one meal.
posted by Four Ds at 10:33 AM on October 3, 2016
posted by Four Ds at 10:33 AM on October 3, 2016
I'm an enthusiastic meat eater. He's a vegetarian. I plan most of my meals around their nutrient profiles and calorie content for bodybuilding reasons. He basically doesn't care if his meal is a total carb-bomb or whatever. I do love mushrooms and sweet potatoes and will sometimes order vegetarian options that feature either. But the vegetarian I'm married to hates both those foods and would never want some of my mushroom risotto.
If we're dining and one of us is eating a thing that is 'OK' for the other to eat, and we think the other person would like it a lot, we will volunteer - "this is amazing, you should try it!" But otherwise we peacefully coexist with our not mutually compatible menu choices. Sometimes the key to a successful partnership is recognizing and respecting points of difference. Couples don't need to be (probably shouldn't be?) fully integrated, I guess?
posted by erlking at 11:16 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
If we're dining and one of us is eating a thing that is 'OK' for the other to eat, and we think the other person would like it a lot, we will volunteer - "this is amazing, you should try it!" But otherwise we peacefully coexist with our not mutually compatible menu choices. Sometimes the key to a successful partnership is recognizing and respecting points of difference. Couples don't need to be (probably shouldn't be?) fully integrated, I guess?
posted by erlking at 11:16 AM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
My entire ordering strategy at a really good place is basically, "How can we all get something we want to eat EVERY BITE OF but we all also want to share because IT'S SO DAMN GOOD."
So if I have to eat everything on my plate, I'm elated, but I'm also SUPER DAMN HAPPY to get a bite of my partners' choices. I guess I thought everyone did this? I mean what are you supposed to do otherwise? Suffer without tasting your dining partner's duck confit??
posted by Medieval Maven at 12:29 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
So if I have to eat everything on my plate, I'm elated, but I'm also SUPER DAMN HAPPY to get a bite of my partners' choices. I guess I thought everyone did this? I mean what are you supposed to do otherwise? Suffer without tasting your dining partner's duck confit??
posted by Medieval Maven at 12:29 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
My food strategy with my boyfriend is actually a benevolent dictatorship.
We eat out at nice restaurants 2-3 times a month. I make the reservations and do an obsessive amount of research for everything on the menu and usually have a plan for what we will order before we get to the restaurant. I know what he loves and take that into consideration, but sometimes he doesn't even look at the menu.
He calls me the food dom, but it actually works out really well for us because I am obsessive about getting the perfect meal, and he likes just about anything (we do have a no mustard/no mushrooms agreement). He also seems to get a kick out of how much I love ordering. It's the only area of my life that I am bossy about, and our extended group of friends now pretty much asks me to order for the table when we go out too.
posted by elvissa at 1:18 PM on October 3, 2016
We eat out at nice restaurants 2-3 times a month. I make the reservations and do an obsessive amount of research for everything on the menu and usually have a plan for what we will order before we get to the restaurant. I know what he loves and take that into consideration, but sometimes he doesn't even look at the menu.
He calls me the food dom, but it actually works out really well for us because I am obsessive about getting the perfect meal, and he likes just about anything (we do have a no mustard/no mushrooms agreement). He also seems to get a kick out of how much I love ordering. It's the only area of my life that I am bossy about, and our extended group of friends now pretty much asks me to order for the table when we go out too.
posted by elvissa at 1:18 PM on October 3, 2016
> My entire ordering strategy at a really good place is basically, "How can we all get something we want to eat EVERY BITE OF but we all also want to share because IT'S SO DAMN GOOD."
It's the pursuit of an imagined utilihedonistarian ideal.
posted by lucidium at 3:45 PM on October 3, 2016
It's the pursuit of an imagined utilihedonistarian ideal.
posted by lucidium at 3:45 PM on October 3, 2016
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posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:59 PM on October 2, 2016 [7 favorites]