A woman's face with Nature's own hand painted
December 1, 2016 4:56 AM Subscribe
Hillary Clinton Appears Before Rally Completely Nude In Bid For Authenticity
posted by Rhaomi at 5:12 AM on December 1, 2016 [23 favorites]
America is also naked right now.
posted by srboisvert at 5:25 AM on December 1, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 5:25 AM on December 1, 2016 [10 favorites]
A woman's face with Nature's own hand painted
Ah, Sonnet 20! The genderfuckery sonnet, one of my favourites. Maybe Sonnet 83 would be a better fit for this post, though?
I have a bone or two to pick with this article, which portrays makeup as purely a patriarchal thing.
I'm certain that Clinton's specific look was crafted partly to appease the gender-biased gaze of her onlookers, but surely it's also partly a stage and TV thing? If you want people to see your facial expressions from further away, makeup is helpful. Onstage under lights, or on camera, makeup tends to be used regardless of gender.
And that final line-- "after 40 years of scrutiny and stricture, Hillary Clinton is finally, triumphantly, human again." Was she not human before? I thought one of her strengths was remaining human in the midst of adversity. And are people who wear makeup not human?
Although I agree with most of what the writer says, it's moments like that that make me feel annoyed with how she says it. But I'm glad* Clinton is freer to look how she chooses, and I applaud her choice.
*Although obviously I'd rather she were President, even if it meant her having to live with 8 more years of careful image-crafting.
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:48 AM on December 1, 2016 [45 favorites]
Ah, Sonnet 20! The genderfuckery sonnet, one of my favourites. Maybe Sonnet 83 would be a better fit for this post, though?
I have a bone or two to pick with this article, which portrays makeup as purely a patriarchal thing.
I'm certain that Clinton's specific look was crafted partly to appease the gender-biased gaze of her onlookers, but surely it's also partly a stage and TV thing? If you want people to see your facial expressions from further away, makeup is helpful. Onstage under lights, or on camera, makeup tends to be used regardless of gender.
And that final line-- "after 40 years of scrutiny and stricture, Hillary Clinton is finally, triumphantly, human again." Was she not human before? I thought one of her strengths was remaining human in the midst of adversity. And are people who wear makeup not human?
Although I agree with most of what the writer says, it's moments like that that make me feel annoyed with how she says it. But I'm glad* Clinton is freer to look how she chooses, and I applaud her choice.
*Although obviously I'd rather she were President, even if it meant her having to live with 8 more years of careful image-crafting.
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:48 AM on December 1, 2016 [45 favorites]
God the fact that her wearing makeup or not is even a thing is so bloody wearisome. Seriously, essays and essays written on her appearance, and she's not free of it even after her (appalling) defeat. I can't bear it, so she must want to tell people to fuck up about her looks approximately every third nanosecond.
posted by billiebee at 5:57 AM on December 1, 2016 [91 favorites]
posted by billiebee at 5:57 AM on December 1, 2016 [91 favorites]
It makes sense. This is essentially the same as her campaign strategy: "I'm Hillary Clinton, and I shouldn't have to do anything besides being Hillary Clinton, because being Hillary Clinton is sufficient". It works better in terms of personal appearance than it did for presidential campaigning.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:07 AM on December 1, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 6:07 AM on December 1, 2016 [6 favorites]
I do look forward to seeing pieces analysing how Donald Trump is better with a bald head, and how he doesn't need to carry the burden of expectations on his white thorny crown that a cruel cruel world bestowed upon him.
In short, fuck this shit.
posted by the cydonian at 6:08 AM on December 1, 2016 [112 favorites]
In short, fuck this shit.
posted by the cydonian at 6:08 AM on December 1, 2016 [112 favorites]
Before wearing makeup, she needed to take on her husband's last name for political purposes.
posted by Obscure Reference at 6:10 AM on December 1, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Obscure Reference at 6:10 AM on December 1, 2016 [9 favorites]
Yet another demonstration of how Clinton was shot through with entitlement and resentment for having to ask for support. Even after she loses, it's important for her to make sure people knew that even something as small as stage makeup (not particularly gendered, as noted above) was a begrudging concession.
posted by MattD at 6:12 AM on December 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by MattD at 6:12 AM on December 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
This article makes me so happy and so angry at the same time. Fuck the social expectations that force women to wear makeup.
Related: Australian TV anchor Tracey Spicer goes "cold turkey" on makeup, because "[a]fter 30 years in television [she'd] become what [she] despised: a painted doll who spent an hour a day and [AU]$200 a week putting on a mask."
posted by heatherlogan at 6:22 AM on December 1, 2016 [13 favorites]
Related: Australian TV anchor Tracey Spicer goes "cold turkey" on makeup, because "[a]fter 30 years in television [she'd] become what [she] despised: a painted doll who spent an hour a day and [AU]$200 a week putting on a mask."
posted by heatherlogan at 6:22 AM on December 1, 2016 [13 favorites]
The fact that a thinkpiece was spawned from just three appearances since her concession (two of them candid selfies from her private life) is probably more evidence of the HRC double-standard than anything else.
posted by Think_Long at 6:22 AM on December 1, 2016 [80 favorites]
posted by Think_Long at 6:22 AM on December 1, 2016 [80 favorites]
Good for her. Perhaps it's like post-election Al Gore giving up on shaving for a while, except with more weird gender politics stuff.
Women in a certain public niche need to wear makeup but only some makeup because they cannot look like they're wearing makeup because that would be artifice but you can't go running around looking like yourself.
posted by rmd1023 at 6:23 AM on December 1, 2016 [28 favorites]
Women in a certain public niche need to wear makeup but only some makeup because they cannot look like they're wearing makeup because that would be artifice but you can't go running around looking like yourself.
posted by rmd1023 at 6:23 AM on December 1, 2016 [28 favorites]
Yet another demonstration of how Clinton was shot through with entitlement and resentment for having to ask for support. Even after she loses, it's important for her to make sure people knew that even something as small as stage makeup (not particularly gendered, as noted above) was a begrudging concession.
Yes, Donald Trump's lipstick, mascara, eyeshadow and blush choices were also heavily scrutinized, and he too has had to wear highly visible make-up all his life every time he makes a public appearance, making sure that he wears colors and styles of application that are not too trendy but not dated. It's a huge burden on all politicians of all genders.
posted by Frowner at 6:25 AM on December 1, 2016 [162 favorites]
Yes, Donald Trump's lipstick, mascara, eyeshadow and blush choices were also heavily scrutinized, and he too has had to wear highly visible make-up all his life every time he makes a public appearance, making sure that he wears colors and styles of application that are not too trendy but not dated. It's a huge burden on all politicians of all genders.
posted by Frowner at 6:25 AM on December 1, 2016 [162 favorites]
Also, not wearing makeup while walking in the woods? THE DEUCE YOU SAY.
I somehow expect that if she'd been wearing makeup in that random encounter, there would've been a thinkpiece about how tied to her inauthentic public identity she was that she couldn't even go into the wilderness without the artifice of makeup.
posted by rmd1023 at 6:25 AM on December 1, 2016 [34 favorites]
I somehow expect that if she'd been wearing makeup in that random encounter, there would've been a thinkpiece about how tied to her inauthentic public identity she was that she couldn't even go into the wilderness without the artifice of makeup.
posted by rmd1023 at 6:25 AM on December 1, 2016 [34 favorites]
Yet another demonstration of how Clinton was shot through with entitlement and resentment for having to ask for support.
Oh, that mean old Hillary, having the audacity to appear in public without spending the duly apportioned amount of time conforming to arbitrary gender-enforced standards of appearance. Why, between that and her private email server I'd say we really dodged a bullet and oh sweet fucking christ I can't even finish my argument ad absurdum we gave a goddamn fascist the nuclear codes because people like you normalize this sort of thing
posted by Mayor West at 6:31 AM on December 1, 2016 [211 favorites]
Oh, that mean old Hillary, having the audacity to appear in public without spending the duly apportioned amount of time conforming to arbitrary gender-enforced standards of appearance. Why, between that and her private email server I'd say we really dodged a bullet and oh sweet fucking christ I can't even finish my argument ad absurdum we gave a goddamn fascist the nuclear codes because people like you normalize this sort of thing
posted by Mayor West at 6:31 AM on December 1, 2016 [211 favorites]
She wore "visible makeup" when she presented the UNICEF award to Katy Perry the other night. She also did wear "visible makeup" at the Children's Defense Fund event. Or does lipstick not count as makeup any more?
posted by muddgirl at 6:32 AM on December 1, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 6:32 AM on December 1, 2016 [10 favorites]
First of all, what the hell are they even talking about? She is wearing makeup in those photos (well, maybe not the hiking one, it's hard to tell because of the light.) She's not wearing TV/interview/public appearance makeup, she's wearing ordinary everyday light makeup. Does the person who wrote that "warrior without her war paint" caption not see that she's wearing lipstick?
A thinkpiece analyzing the deeper meaning of her minimal makeup-- misrepresented for symbolic purposes as no makeup--is not really progress in the endless scrutiny of her makeup.
posted by desuetude at 6:38 AM on December 1, 2016 [37 favorites]
A thinkpiece analyzing the deeper meaning of her minimal makeup-- misrepresented for symbolic purposes as no makeup--is not really progress in the endless scrutiny of her makeup.
posted by desuetude at 6:38 AM on December 1, 2016 [37 favorites]
FTA: "And yet, even if Clinton’s beauty routine was never exactly optional"
Come on now. I feel like this single sentence fragment belies the entire discussion.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:39 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
Come on now. I feel like this single sentence fragment belies the entire discussion.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:39 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
I read an article describing how she related to foreign audiences, that she came across as much more authentic and approachable, talking directly to young women's issues and showing clear empathy. Although it's pretty clear why the years of acrimony from many segments did not allow that to shine through in the election campaign it's an essential element that lost it for her, she should have "gone naked" and as herself from the first announcement.
posted by sammyo at 6:41 AM on December 1, 2016
posted by sammyo at 6:41 AM on December 1, 2016
There are many people who lost a Presidential campaign, and didn't wear makeup after: Dewey, McGovern, Dukakis...
OK, OK, it's different for Clinton. There are different cultural norms and expectations in place. But when those gender expectations are completely arbitrary and irrelevant, maybe a way of lessening the importance of those expectations is simply not to pay attention to them, even when it's in the guise of a thinkpiece exploring the ramifications of a private citizen's makeup choices to the nation.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:46 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
OK, OK, it's different for Clinton. There are different cultural norms and expectations in place. But when those gender expectations are completely arbitrary and irrelevant, maybe a way of lessening the importance of those expectations is simply not to pay attention to them, even when it's in the guise of a thinkpiece exploring the ramifications of a private citizen's makeup choices to the nation.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:46 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
Frowner, how many posts would one find if you searched MeFi for "orange," "hair" or "fat" about Trump? Has any male candidate for President ever faced that kind of flack for his changeable appearance characteristics?
posted by MattD at 6:47 AM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by MattD at 6:47 AM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
she should have "gone naked" and as herself from the first announcement.
Politicians who adopt a people-pleasing persona have a tendency to come off as stiff and robotic, and to lose. I'm thinking Bob Dole, Al Gore, John Kerry, Mitt Romney. The person who seems more relaxed and real wins, even if that person is an insane asshole.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:49 AM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
Politicians who adopt a people-pleasing persona have a tendency to come off as stiff and robotic, and to lose. I'm thinking Bob Dole, Al Gore, John Kerry, Mitt Romney. The person who seems more relaxed and real wins, even if that person is an insane asshole.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:49 AM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump's toupée was an international punchline in search of a joke long before he announced his candidacy.
posted by brokkr at 6:49 AM on December 1, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by brokkr at 6:49 AM on December 1, 2016 [10 favorites]
I don't wear makeup even though I'm expected to - despite not being Hillary Clinton myself - and if the men around me think that makes me the entitled person in an interaction, well, now, that's what I call entitlement.
posted by sockermom at 6:50 AM on December 1, 2016 [72 favorites]
posted by sockermom at 6:50 AM on December 1, 2016 [72 favorites]
I'm both annoyed by this article and thankful for it. I'm annoyed for a lot of the reasons mentioned above about double standards and the fact that we have to have this conversation at all.
I'm also thankful because it's a conversation that we clearly need to keep on having.
One of the things that was starkly apparent to me in this election cycle was that so many of my liberal friends have absorbed toxic levels of background misogyny. And beauty expectations and presentation expectations of women fit into that. I'm not sure that pointedly not talking about it actually helps dispel the underlying issues.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 6:52 AM on December 1, 2016 [20 favorites]
I'm also thankful because it's a conversation that we clearly need to keep on having.
One of the things that was starkly apparent to me in this election cycle was that so many of my liberal friends have absorbed toxic levels of background misogyny. And beauty expectations and presentation expectations of women fit into that. I'm not sure that pointedly not talking about it actually helps dispel the underlying issues.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 6:52 AM on December 1, 2016 [20 favorites]
Hey! Can we organize a nationwide No Makeup Day? It would be amazing (and I think empowering).
posted by heatherlogan at 6:57 AM on December 1, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by heatherlogan at 6:57 AM on December 1, 2016 [14 favorites]
maybe a way of lessening the importance of those expectations is simply not to pay attention to them
This is very easy to say when you're not the one who faces the consequences of not doing the expected thing. While I had a lot of problems with this piece, ignoring problems caused by our social structure is definitely not a path that leads to those problems being solved.
posted by sockermom at 7:00 AM on December 1, 2016 [25 favorites]
This is very easy to say when you're not the one who faces the consequences of not doing the expected thing. While I had a lot of problems with this piece, ignoring problems caused by our social structure is definitely not a path that leads to those problems being solved.
posted by sockermom at 7:00 AM on December 1, 2016 [25 favorites]
Has any male candidate for President ever faced that kind of flack for his changeable appearance characteristics?
Has any male presidential candidate ever said of his opponent, "When she walked in front of me, believe me, I wasn’t impressed"?
posted by blucevalo at 7:02 AM on December 1, 2016 [49 favorites]
Has any male presidential candidate ever said of his opponent, "When she walked in front of me, believe me, I wasn’t impressed"?
posted by blucevalo at 7:02 AM on December 1, 2016 [49 favorites]
Think_Long: more evidence of the HRC double-standard than anything else
Compared to The Rotten Orange? Because this double-standard is applied to all women. Not to make anything less of Hillary's choices, but the ridiculous focus on appearance for women is bullshit on all fronts. For a fun example of how stupid it all is, here's Cosmopolitan UK flip sexist questions on The Avengers Scarlett Johansson and Mark Ruffalo related to their roles in Marvel's Avengers: Age of Ultron.
Burn these stupid "journalistic" expectations to the ground and start again when it comes to coverage of people of power and celebrities.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:03 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
Compared to The Rotten Orange? Because this double-standard is applied to all women. Not to make anything less of Hillary's choices, but the ridiculous focus on appearance for women is bullshit on all fronts. For a fun example of how stupid it all is, here's Cosmopolitan UK flip sexist questions on The Avengers Scarlett Johansson and Mark Ruffalo related to their roles in Marvel's Avengers: Age of Ultron.
Burn these stupid "journalistic" expectations to the ground and start again when it comes to coverage of people of power and celebrities.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:03 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
MattD, so your response to the article is basically "Clinton is entitled when she doesn't wear makeup" and "What about the burdens men face?"?
posted by defenestration at 7:05 AM on December 1, 2016 [70 favorites]
posted by defenestration at 7:05 AM on December 1, 2016 [70 favorites]
First of all, what the hell are they even talking about? She is wearing makeup in those photos...
I feel like, as feminism has gone more mainstream, simultaneously and maybe in response, "makeup" has changed definitions and now only means a professionally-done photo-ready face with color-correction, contour, highlight, eyebrow tint, falsies, and a cut crease. And if someone is only wearing a bit of foundation and lipstick, that's now a brave, bare face.
posted by muddgirl at 7:06 AM on December 1, 2016 [11 favorites]
I feel like, as feminism has gone more mainstream, simultaneously and maybe in response, "makeup" has changed definitions and now only means a professionally-done photo-ready face with color-correction, contour, highlight, eyebrow tint, falsies, and a cut crease. And if someone is only wearing a bit of foundation and lipstick, that's now a brave, bare face.
posted by muddgirl at 7:06 AM on December 1, 2016 [11 favorites]
Been wearing my face naked for a long time now, highly recommend it, but then I don't have to get in front of TV cameras ever.
posted by emjaybee at 7:07 AM on December 1, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 7:07 AM on December 1, 2016 [7 favorites]
This is very easy to say when you're not the one who faces the consequences of not doing the expected thing.
Oh, I don't think this is true of me at all. While the arbitrary and irrelevant expectations I face are completely different from the ones discussed here, they very definitely do exist for someone in my profession. Which is not to equate them, only to say that I do have some familiarity and experience with these kinds of expectations.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:24 AM on December 1, 2016
Oh, I don't think this is true of me at all. While the arbitrary and irrelevant expectations I face are completely different from the ones discussed here, they very definitely do exist for someone in my profession. Which is not to equate them, only to say that I do have some familiarity and experience with these kinds of expectations.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:24 AM on December 1, 2016
There are also some fields where wearing make-up (or at least visible make-up) is actually a disadvantage. I've been able to go my whole life bare-faced with no consequences because I work at universities. In academia, visible make-up on women (and just paying too much attention to appearance in general) is regarded as a sign they aren't "serious". So, the type of make-up that, say, a Big Law litigator would be expected to wear in court could be perceived in the research lab as a sign of low intelligence. Which is to say: damned if you do, damned if you don't.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:27 AM on December 1, 2016 [33 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:27 AM on December 1, 2016 [33 favorites]
Basically if you exist on earth as a woman, somebody will criticize you for it.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 7:29 AM on December 1, 2016 [116 favorites]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 7:29 AM on December 1, 2016 [116 favorites]
She really can't win. Bill loses in Arkansas, it's her fault because she wanted to keep her maiden name and not wear makeup. She puts on some makeup, he wins, people give her shit and call her a sell-out. She wears a headband, someone has to write a thinkpiece on headbands. She loses a bitterly fought election, goes for a walk in the woods with her dog sans makeup - hey thinkpiece.
posted by fixedgear at 7:44 AM on December 1, 2016 [56 favorites]
posted by fixedgear at 7:44 AM on December 1, 2016 [56 favorites]
I know it's been addressed multiple times in this thread, but I want to reiterate in the clearest terms that I can:
Yet another demonstration of how Clinton was shot through with entitlement and resentment for having to ask for support. Even after she loses, it's important for her to make sure people knew that even something as small as stage makeup (not particularly gendered, as noted above) was a begrudging concession.
Wearing makeup is an emotionally charged thing for a lot of women, particularly professional women, particularly and especially professional women who came of age during the 60's and 70's.
Wearing makeup is, for many women, a giant fucking pain in the ass. Especially stage makeup. Jesus fucking Christ. Maybe the high-end stuff in the hands of top practitioners like what Hillary had is better, but the couple times I've worn it, I wanted to run screaming from the chair after sixty seconds. Since my preference is not to wear much makeup at all, I also had to change how I ate, drank, touched my face, licked my lips, blew my nose, and sat the entire time I had it on. Getting it off was a second ordeal.
But even beyond all of that. Even beyond all that.
A woman deciding to make a really fucking personal decision that doesn't really impact anybody's life at all, and that being proof she is "shot through with entitlement and resentment" -- wow. That's one of the most nakedly misogynist things that I've seen in a while on this site, and I was here for the tramp stamp discussion. The way that so-called professive/leftist/whatever men react when women actually exercise control of their bodies? Wooooooooow.
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:54 AM on December 1, 2016 [170 favorites]
Yet another demonstration of how Clinton was shot through with entitlement and resentment for having to ask for support. Even after she loses, it's important for her to make sure people knew that even something as small as stage makeup (not particularly gendered, as noted above) was a begrudging concession.
Wearing makeup is an emotionally charged thing for a lot of women, particularly professional women, particularly and especially professional women who came of age during the 60's and 70's.
Wearing makeup is, for many women, a giant fucking pain in the ass. Especially stage makeup. Jesus fucking Christ. Maybe the high-end stuff in the hands of top practitioners like what Hillary had is better, but the couple times I've worn it, I wanted to run screaming from the chair after sixty seconds. Since my preference is not to wear much makeup at all, I also had to change how I ate, drank, touched my face, licked my lips, blew my nose, and sat the entire time I had it on. Getting it off was a second ordeal.
But even beyond all of that. Even beyond all that.
A woman deciding to make a really fucking personal decision that doesn't really impact anybody's life at all, and that being proof she is "shot through with entitlement and resentment" -- wow. That's one of the most nakedly misogynist things that I've seen in a while on this site, and I was here for the tramp stamp discussion. The way that so-called professive/leftist/whatever men react when women actually exercise control of their bodies? Wooooooooow.
posted by joyceanmachine at 7:54 AM on December 1, 2016 [170 favorites]
Yet another demonstration of how Clinton was shot through with entitlement and resentment for having to ask for support.
Wow.
You interpret the simple fact that she is wearing less makeup after the campaign as a demonstration of her entitlement and resentment? Donald J. Trump is literally intimidating reporters and suggesting protesters lose their citizenship, but Hillary forgoing makeup is evidence of entitlement? There's enough projection happening in this sentence to power another Jupiter probe.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 7:56 AM on December 1, 2016 [105 favorites]
Wow.
You interpret the simple fact that she is wearing less makeup after the campaign as a demonstration of her entitlement and resentment? Donald J. Trump is literally intimidating reporters and suggesting protesters lose their citizenship, but Hillary forgoing makeup is evidence of entitlement? There's enough projection happening in this sentence to power another Jupiter probe.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 7:56 AM on December 1, 2016 [105 favorites]
For those who want to know what "no makeup" looks like for women .... for men
posted by beaning at 7:59 AM on December 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by beaning at 7:59 AM on December 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
The thing that makes me angriest about this article is that its author, Swiss psychologist Hermann Rorschach, ignores my particular take on a pet issue
posted by beerperson at 7:59 AM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 7:59 AM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
How in the hell are there more comments here (some already deleted) by hostile men insulting HRC or proposing the existence of a reverse-sexist double standard than there are people trying to discuss this article?
I'm at the point where I'm checking accounts for their join dates to make sure mefi isn't being taken over and brigaded by Pepes. Mods... good job with what you've already been doing on this thread.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 8:05 AM on December 1, 2016 [30 favorites]
I'm at the point where I'm checking accounts for their join dates to make sure mefi isn't being taken over and brigaded by Pepes. Mods... good job with what you've already been doing on this thread.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 8:05 AM on December 1, 2016 [30 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments removed. saulgoodman, I know this is something that's got some personal hurt for you but you absolutely have got to stop relitigating this in random MetaFilter threads.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:16 AM on December 1, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:16 AM on December 1, 2016 [8 favorites]
Was she not human before? I thought one of her strengths was remaining human in the midst of adversity. And are people who wear makeup not human?
As a young woman, she did not wear make-up. Then Bill's political career pretty much forced her to. So yeah, maybe she's back to her old self, but also I think after 50 years of wearing make-up it becomes a part of her too.
Even after she loses, it's important for her to make sure people knew that even something as small as stage makeup (not particularly gendered, as noted above) was a begrudging concession.
I personally don't wear make-up (mostly because I lost my entire make-up bag a once over a decade ago and had no idea how to even start over. Also I'm lazy and prefer sleep). If I ran for president and was forced to wear make-up for a year and a half, it would definitely be a grudging concession. Everyone has their little pet peeves and dislikes. God forbid she say she didn't like something or she's full of "entitlement and resentment".
posted by LizBoBiz at 8:21 AM on December 1, 2016 [12 favorites]
As a young woman, she did not wear make-up. Then Bill's political career pretty much forced her to. So yeah, maybe she's back to her old self, but also I think after 50 years of wearing make-up it becomes a part of her too.
Even after she loses, it's important for her to make sure people knew that even something as small as stage makeup (not particularly gendered, as noted above) was a begrudging concession.
I personally don't wear make-up (mostly because I lost my entire make-up bag a once over a decade ago and had no idea how to even start over. Also I'm lazy and prefer sleep). If I ran for president and was forced to wear make-up for a year and a half, it would definitely be a grudging concession. Everyone has their little pet peeves and dislikes. God forbid she say she didn't like something or she's full of "entitlement and resentment".
posted by LizBoBiz at 8:21 AM on December 1, 2016 [12 favorites]
Frowner, how many posts would one find if you searched MeFi for "orange," "hair" or "fat" about Trump? Has any male candidate for President ever faced that kind of flack for his changeable appearance characteristics?
I don't even understand what you're asking. It seems like you're saying "Clinton wore heavy, feminine make-up all the time on the campaign trail and generally throughout her political career; that she doesn't want to continue doing this is a sign that she is entitled, and only full-on enthusiastic embrace of heavy make-up would show her commitment to correct politics. This is the same for Trump, who, unlike Clinton, was totally into wearing heavy make-up, which shows his willingness to do what it takes. Clinton engages in special pleading by implying that she does not enjoy wearing heavy make-up".
This really confuses me because it is so remote from how make-up is gendered and also seems very remote from the actual experience of applying and wearing heavy make-up on a daily basis.
And now somehow we're saying that because people said negative things about Trump's appearance this somehow means that Clinton was definitely entitled for not wearing heavy make-up after the election. I'm not at all sure why these two things are connected, not least because people have said negative things about Clinton's clothes, hair, face and body for the entire time she's been in the public eye despite her incredible efforts to conform.
Trump makes no effort to conform, because being a fat orange guy with frankly bizarre hair and badly fitting clothes is a gesture of power - it says that he can demand physical perfection from the people around him while looking, himself, like an unmade bed. If Clinton were fat, if she had bizarre hair, if she wore orange tanner, if she wore badly-fitting clothes - she would never have had a political career past, perhaps, the very local level.
I mean, I literally do not understand how Clinton not wearing heavy make-up every time she steps out the door is a sign of entitlement, or what this has to do with people's negative comments about Clinton's or Trump's general appearance.
I'm also uneasy with the idea that not putting a lot of makeup on is acting entitled if other people want you to wear make-up. Does this mean that I should wear make-up or else I'm an entitled AFAB person? We all know that anyone read as a woman is expected to look feminine and wear make-up in public - that's the whole thing here. If Clinton is entitled for not wanting to wear a bunch of make-up, then so is everyone who society expects to wear make-up but does not.
posted by Frowner at 8:21 AM on December 1, 2016 [56 favorites]
I don't even understand what you're asking. It seems like you're saying "Clinton wore heavy, feminine make-up all the time on the campaign trail and generally throughout her political career; that she doesn't want to continue doing this is a sign that she is entitled, and only full-on enthusiastic embrace of heavy make-up would show her commitment to correct politics. This is the same for Trump, who, unlike Clinton, was totally into wearing heavy make-up, which shows his willingness to do what it takes. Clinton engages in special pleading by implying that she does not enjoy wearing heavy make-up".
This really confuses me because it is so remote from how make-up is gendered and also seems very remote from the actual experience of applying and wearing heavy make-up on a daily basis.
And now somehow we're saying that because people said negative things about Trump's appearance this somehow means that Clinton was definitely entitled for not wearing heavy make-up after the election. I'm not at all sure why these two things are connected, not least because people have said negative things about Clinton's clothes, hair, face and body for the entire time she's been in the public eye despite her incredible efforts to conform.
Trump makes no effort to conform, because being a fat orange guy with frankly bizarre hair and badly fitting clothes is a gesture of power - it says that he can demand physical perfection from the people around him while looking, himself, like an unmade bed. If Clinton were fat, if she had bizarre hair, if she wore orange tanner, if she wore badly-fitting clothes - she would never have had a political career past, perhaps, the very local level.
I mean, I literally do not understand how Clinton not wearing heavy make-up every time she steps out the door is a sign of entitlement, or what this has to do with people's negative comments about Clinton's or Trump's general appearance.
I'm also uneasy with the idea that not putting a lot of makeup on is acting entitled if other people want you to wear make-up. Does this mean that I should wear make-up or else I'm an entitled AFAB person? We all know that anyone read as a woman is expected to look feminine and wear make-up in public - that's the whole thing here. If Clinton is entitled for not wanting to wear a bunch of make-up, then so is everyone who society expects to wear make-up but does not.
posted by Frowner at 8:21 AM on December 1, 2016 [56 favorites]
I finally had to unfriend an ostensibly liberal guy who I briefly dated when he posted an article entitled roughly, "Just stay in the woods, Hillary Clinton!" One of the hardest things this election has been to see the amount of naked misogyny on display by even left leaning guys. I can only thank my lucky stars that my husband and father are better than that, but even close male friends have been disappointing.
posted by peacheater at 8:24 AM on December 1, 2016 [43 favorites]
posted by peacheater at 8:24 AM on December 1, 2016 [43 favorites]
It's so gross and amazing that this one small thing - her not wearing a full face of makeup when she leaves the house - is even being noticed, much less discussed and criticized. Shot through with entitlement and resentment! If I'd experienced the last 30 years that Hillary Clinton has lived through, I'd be drunk on the beach in Fiji in my pajamas right now. But she's still here, making public appearances for causes she believes in and dealing with insane levels of ongoing bullshit.
Incidentally, I have a professional job and I am 40 and just went to the bathroom and noticed I've forgotten to put on makeup today (which is always only mascara anyway). Horrors.
posted by something something at 8:26 AM on December 1, 2016 [40 favorites]
Incidentally, I have a professional job and I am 40 and just went to the bathroom and noticed I've forgotten to put on makeup today (which is always only mascara anyway). Horrors.
posted by something something at 8:26 AM on December 1, 2016 [40 favorites]
Frowner, how many posts would one find if you searched MeFi for "orange," "hair" or "fat" about Trump? Has any male candidate for President ever faced that kind of flack for his changeable appearance characteristics?
Y'know, I don't think I ever heard "fat" as a criticism of Trump outside of the times when we were discussing his physique in the context of his criticisms of others' physiques. Because honestly, he's really pretty average by old American guy standards, and it hardly stands out among other things to critique.
Orange and hair, though? He's rich. Even if we argue how rich he is, we know he has access to a lot of money. He wants us to believe he's stylish, but doesn't even employ the sort of experts he claims to have access to. Making fun of *those* aspects of his appearance is poking fun at the fact that he does not listen to people who know better than him.
posted by explosion at 8:30 AM on December 1, 2016 [6 favorites]
Y'know, I don't think I ever heard "fat" as a criticism of Trump outside of the times when we were discussing his physique in the context of his criticisms of others' physiques. Because honestly, he's really pretty average by old American guy standards, and it hardly stands out among other things to critique.
Orange and hair, though? He's rich. Even if we argue how rich he is, we know he has access to a lot of money. He wants us to believe he's stylish, but doesn't even employ the sort of experts he claims to have access to. Making fun of *those* aspects of his appearance is poking fun at the fact that he does not listen to people who know better than him.
posted by explosion at 8:30 AM on December 1, 2016 [6 favorites]
I allow some small leeway in my "don't bodyshame" rules for individuals who ceaselessly and publicly bodyshame others.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:45 AM on December 1, 2016 [31 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:45 AM on December 1, 2016 [31 favorites]
I finally had to unfriend an ostensibly liberal guy who I briefly dated when he posted an article entitled roughly, "Just stay in the woods, Hillary Clinton!"
Was it this article: Dear Hillary Clinton, please stay in the woods forever? It's a dumb title, but the article doesn't seem to be particularly misogynist or sexist, and makes some rather valid points about the failures of her campaign. It even brings up the fact that in her campaign "the voices of socialist feminists and POC were aggressively ignored."
posted by griphus at 8:49 AM on December 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
Was it this article: Dear Hillary Clinton, please stay in the woods forever? It's a dumb title, but the article doesn't seem to be particularly misogynist or sexist, and makes some rather valid points about the failures of her campaign. It even brings up the fact that in her campaign "the voices of socialist feminists and POC were aggressively ignored."
posted by griphus at 8:49 AM on December 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
As someone who doesn't wear make-up, what am I supposed to call my no-make-up look, since light/natural makeup has been determined to be no make-up?
posted by LizBoBiz at 8:50 AM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by LizBoBiz at 8:50 AM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
"revolutionarily natural."
posted by rmd1023 at 8:53 AM on December 1, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by rmd1023 at 8:53 AM on December 1, 2016 [9 favorites]
As someone who doesn't wear make-up, what am I supposed to call my no-make-up look, since light/natural makeup has been determined to be no make-up?
The bare-faced truth.
posted by heatherlogan at 9:05 AM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
The bare-faced truth.
posted by heatherlogan at 9:05 AM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
What it Took: How a lifetime of compromises and concessions brought one woman to the brink of history
I think this article is an interesting companion piece to the no-makeup one, as it details so much sexist bullshit Hillary has had to endure and adapt to in her career (it's also painful as fuck to read now post-election, but hey).
I'm really torn on this no-makeup article. On one hand, I COMPLETELY agree that it's vile that people are STILL picking apart her appearance. On the other hand, as a woman who deeply resents the social pressure I feel to wear makeup (I do not wear it most of the time, and when I do it's completely minimal and utterly meant to show nothing but "look I smeared shit on my face so I can be an acceptable woman in this context"), I love seeing someone that I respect and admire forgoing makeup, too. I respect the fact that not all women wear makeup due to societal pressure, and if you love rocking your makeup that is completely awesome - but seeing powerful women going without makeup feels good to me.
Keep on with your nasty self, Hillary!
posted by DingoMutt at 9:06 AM on December 1, 2016 [24 favorites]
I think this article is an interesting companion piece to the no-makeup one, as it details so much sexist bullshit Hillary has had to endure and adapt to in her career (it's also painful as fuck to read now post-election, but hey).
I'm really torn on this no-makeup article. On one hand, I COMPLETELY agree that it's vile that people are STILL picking apart her appearance. On the other hand, as a woman who deeply resents the social pressure I feel to wear makeup (I do not wear it most of the time, and when I do it's completely minimal and utterly meant to show nothing but "look I smeared shit on my face so I can be an acceptable woman in this context"), I love seeing someone that I respect and admire forgoing makeup, too. I respect the fact that not all women wear makeup due to societal pressure, and if you love rocking your makeup that is completely awesome - but seeing powerful women going without makeup feels good to me.
Keep on with your nasty self, Hillary!
posted by DingoMutt at 9:06 AM on December 1, 2016 [24 favorites]
"It's a dumb title, but the article doesn't seem to be particularly misogynist or sexist, and makes some rather valid points about the failures of her campaign."
Here is the first line:
"Since losing an election she thought was in the bag, Hillary Clinton has been haunting the woods near her Chappaqua home like some sort of sad, petite Bigfoot."
This was one of the articles written when the media was eager to attack her for running a "terrible" campaign, and before we knew that 1) she was going to win the popular vote by 3 million votes, and 2) the states she lost were aggressively gerrymandered and rife with voter suppression, and 3) Russia likely interfered, certainly with a wave of propaganda, possibly in other ways.
Sorry, but for some of us, "women we dislike should hide in the woods" is irretrievably misogynist, whether it is about makeup or not.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:07 AM on December 1, 2016 [96 favorites]
Here is the first line:
"Since losing an election she thought was in the bag, Hillary Clinton has been haunting the woods near her Chappaqua home like some sort of sad, petite Bigfoot."
This was one of the articles written when the media was eager to attack her for running a "terrible" campaign, and before we knew that 1) she was going to win the popular vote by 3 million votes, and 2) the states she lost were aggressively gerrymandered and rife with voter suppression, and 3) Russia likely interfered, certainly with a wave of propaganda, possibly in other ways.
Sorry, but for some of us, "women we dislike should hide in the woods" is irretrievably misogynist, whether it is about makeup or not.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:07 AM on December 1, 2016 [96 favorites]
She can't even take a fucking hike without being compared to a literal monster.
posted by muddgirl at 9:08 AM on December 1, 2016 [83 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 9:08 AM on December 1, 2016 [83 favorites]
I have to say that Trump seems to be to be more fair game than other old guys (say Mitch McConnell, W, Bill Clinton, etc.) precisely because he is so much of a peacock. That hair costs tens of thousands of dollars to maintain. His suits (though they rumple) are made of incredibly expensive fabric. His teeth are covered with veneers, his makeup is obvious, and he's known to be upset about unflattering pictures.
A) It's the disconnect between the intent and execution and the result that cause his appearance to be dissected so thoroughly.
B) It's also going against the trope that SERIOUS MASCULINE men don't care about their appearance because they are so busy thinking about running the country. White, flyaway hair was a great look for Bernie. Other politicians have used plaid shirts, or red suspenders -- they are notable but not obviously expensive and ostentatious bids for style.
C) And most depressingly this same trope does not work for women. I don't think for a minute that Janet Reno worried too much about her makeup, and look at all the jokes about her appearance that were made.
posted by jfwlucy at 9:09 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
A) It's the disconnect between the intent and execution and the result that cause his appearance to be dissected so thoroughly.
B) It's also going against the trope that SERIOUS MASCULINE men don't care about their appearance because they are so busy thinking about running the country. White, flyaway hair was a great look for Bernie. Other politicians have used plaid shirts, or red suspenders -- they are notable but not obviously expensive and ostentatious bids for style.
C) And most depressingly this same trope does not work for women. I don't think for a minute that Janet Reno worried too much about her makeup, and look at all the jokes about her appearance that were made.
posted by jfwlucy at 9:09 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also anyone talking about the reality of "no makeup" ought to check out this tutorial on how to spend 15 minutes and lots of money on a "no makeup" look.
posted by jfwlucy at 9:12 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jfwlucy at 9:12 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
This was one of the articles written when the media was eager to attack her for running a "terrible" campaign, and before we knew that ...
This article came out two days ago.
posted by griphus at 9:19 AM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
This article came out two days ago.
posted by griphus at 9:19 AM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
That clinches it. I will too.
posted by jonmc at 9:20 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jonmc at 9:20 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
She can't even take a fucking hike without being compared to a literal monster.
I refuse to believe it is humanly possible to see the spate of 'hikers encounter Hillary Clinton in the woods' things posted on twitter without immediately making some kind of Sasquatch joke
posted by beerperson at 9:21 AM on December 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
I refuse to believe it is humanly possible to see the spate of 'hikers encounter Hillary Clinton in the woods' things posted on twitter without immediately making some kind of Sasquatch joke
posted by beerperson at 9:21 AM on December 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
This article came out two days ago.
Then it is especially egregious that it is recycling the talking points of two weeks ago!
"Uppity women should be banished to the wilderness" is still a thesis that I consider to be pretty solid garbage.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:21 AM on December 1, 2016 [13 favorites]
Then it is especially egregious that it is recycling the talking points of two weeks ago!
"Uppity women should be banished to the wilderness" is still a thesis that I consider to be pretty solid garbage.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:21 AM on December 1, 2016 [13 favorites]
.This article came out two days ago.
They are talking about the "stay in the woods" article.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 9:22 AM on December 1, 2016
They are talking about the "stay in the woods" article.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 9:22 AM on December 1, 2016
Dear Hillary Clinton, please stay in the woods forever
In Politics by Jamie Peck / November 29, 2016
posted by beerperson at 9:23 AM on December 1, 2016
In Politics by Jamie Peck / November 29, 2016
posted by beerperson at 9:23 AM on December 1, 2016
Which -huh, that's two days old? I definitely read the same thing before Thanksgiving, perhaps it was republished or just lazily stolen.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 9:23 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by the agents of KAOS at 9:23 AM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
I refuse to believe it is humanly possible to see the spate of 'hikers encounter Hillary Clinton in the woods' things posted on twitter without immediately making some kind of Sasquatch joke
So now I'm inhuman too, I guess.
posted by muddgirl at 9:25 AM on December 1, 2016 [7 favorites]
So now I'm inhuman too, I guess.
posted by muddgirl at 9:25 AM on December 1, 2016 [7 favorites]
So now I'm inhuman too, I guess.
This is definitely a reasonable takeaway from the conversation!
posted by beerperson at 9:30 AM on December 1, 2016 [5 favorites]
This is definitely a reasonable takeaway from the conversation!
posted by beerperson at 9:30 AM on December 1, 2016 [5 favorites]
I've always seen makeup as very strongly analogous to the burqa. Arguments both pro and anti are almost indistinguishable.
I'm not sure what to make of the fairly large number of people prepared to argue passionately for one and against the other.
posted by flabdablet at 9:32 AM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure what to make of the fairly large number of people prepared to argue passionately for one and against the other.
posted by flabdablet at 9:32 AM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is definitely a reasonable takeaway from the conversation!
My whole objection to the article is that it dehumanizes Clinton for no good reason. Maybe some care with language is warranted.
posted by muddgirl at 9:48 AM on December 1, 2016 [9 favorites]
My whole objection to the article is that it dehumanizes Clinton for no good reason. Maybe some care with language is warranted.
posted by muddgirl at 9:48 AM on December 1, 2016 [9 favorites]
This is essentially the same as her campaign strategy: "I'm Hillary Clinton, and I shouldn't have to do anything besides being Hillary Clinton, because being Hillary Clinton is sufficient"
OK, you know that before the election, she was criticized for having too many detailed policy proposals for too many issues, right? Compare to her opponent, whose policy on health care, a central issue in American life, was literally "we'll repeal the current system and replace it with something really awesome. Just so awesome. Believe me, you will be awed." Yeah, it was definitely Hillary Clinton who ran on the cult of her personality, with nothing substantive to offer.
Just because Bernie told you that she campaigned on merely being a woman doesn't mean it's actually true.
And being Hillary Clinton--being anyone--is sufficient to go about one's daily life as one chooses. What more is it that you propose she should be required to do as she continues in order to be acceptable besides "be Hillary Clinton" ? Be detailed, please, and provide extensive justifications in the footnotes.
posted by praemunire at 9:53 AM on December 1, 2016 [84 favorites]
OK, you know that before the election, she was criticized for having too many detailed policy proposals for too many issues, right? Compare to her opponent, whose policy on health care, a central issue in American life, was literally "we'll repeal the current system and replace it with something really awesome. Just so awesome. Believe me, you will be awed." Yeah, it was definitely Hillary Clinton who ran on the cult of her personality, with nothing substantive to offer.
Just because Bernie told you that she campaigned on merely being a woman doesn't mean it's actually true.
And being Hillary Clinton--being anyone--is sufficient to go about one's daily life as one chooses. What more is it that you propose she should be required to do as she continues in order to be acceptable besides "be Hillary Clinton" ? Be detailed, please, and provide extensive justifications in the footnotes.
posted by praemunire at 9:53 AM on December 1, 2016 [84 favorites]
Just because Bernie told you that she campaigned on merely being a woman doesn't mean it's actually true.Jesus fucking Christ, I want to get this printed on t-shirts. I want to get this tattooed on my forehead.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:28 AM on December 1, 2016 [44 favorites]
It totally should. It would be helpful for identifying smug, entitled assholes.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:31 AM on December 1, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:31 AM on December 1, 2016 [6 favorites]
When did Bernie say that?
posted by 7segment at 10:31 AM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by 7segment at 10:31 AM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's not an official Bernie release, but it is on the Basement Tapes
posted by beerperson at 10:32 AM on December 1, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 10:32 AM on December 1, 2016 [6 favorites]
They didn't ask Sean Hannity
posted by beerperson at 10:35 AM on December 1, 2016
posted by beerperson at 10:35 AM on December 1, 2016
OK, you know that before the election, she was criticized for having too many detailed policy proposals for too many issues, right?
If I may (and though I read an alarming amount of them my total contribution to the pre-election threads was one throwaway joke, so ignore as necessary) from my seat inside the center-lefty bubble I'm trying my damndest to pop at the moment it read like 'man, have we got this' and not at all like crtiticism, ever. Like to the point of overconfidence that made me uncomfortable then and is making me feel stupid now.
posted by mintcake! at 10:35 AM on December 1, 2016
If I may (and though I read an alarming amount of them my total contribution to the pre-election threads was one throwaway joke, so ignore as necessary) from my seat inside the center-lefty bubble I'm trying my damndest to pop at the moment it read like 'man, have we got this' and not at all like crtiticism, ever. Like to the point of overconfidence that made me uncomfortable then and is making me feel stupid now.
posted by mintcake! at 10:35 AM on December 1, 2016
There are also some fields where wearing make-up (or at least visible make-up) is actually a disadvantage. I've been able to go my whole life bare-faced with no consequences because I work at universities. In academia, visible make-up on women (and just paying too much attention to appearance in general) is regarded as a sign they aren't "serious".
and
Also anyone talking about the reality of "no makeup" ought to check out this tutorial on how to spend 15 minutes and lots of money on a "no makeup" look.
together describe the delicate balancing act of makeup-but-not-noticeable-makeup I have to go through to actually get taken seriously in academia. None and I still look like a disheveled student, and get treated like a student. Too much and I'm not serious. Can't win.
posted by pemberkins at 10:37 AM on December 1, 2016 [16 favorites]
and
Also anyone talking about the reality of "no makeup" ought to check out this tutorial on how to spend 15 minutes and lots of money on a "no makeup" look.
together describe the delicate balancing act of makeup-but-not-noticeable-makeup I have to go through to actually get taken seriously in academia. None and I still look like a disheveled student, and get treated like a student. Too much and I'm not serious. Can't win.
posted by pemberkins at 10:37 AM on December 1, 2016 [16 favorites]
Bernie B Sides is where you go to get the good tracks, imo. it's like, super rare, so you've probably never heard it before.
posted by Tevin at 10:37 AM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Tevin at 10:37 AM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
wait, what does this mean wrt state-level voting?
People that would have been brought to the polls for downballot races would be less motivated if their districts' outcomes were foregone conclusions.
When did Bernie say that?
“It is not good enough for someone to say, 'I'm a woman! Vote for me!’” he continued, in what’s hard not to read as a criticism of Clinton’s campaign.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 10:37 AM on December 1, 2016 [22 favorites]
People that would have been brought to the polls for downballot races would be less motivated if their districts' outcomes were foregone conclusions.
When did Bernie say that?
“It is not good enough for someone to say, 'I'm a woman! Vote for me!’” he continued, in what’s hard not to read as a criticism of Clinton’s campaign.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 10:37 AM on December 1, 2016 [22 favorites]
I cry for her. I cry for all women who are so FUCKING SICK of this bullshit. To see it here on Metafilter too is so tiring. It's everywhere. Will it ever go away?
posted by agregoli at 10:38 AM on December 1, 2016 [56 favorites]
posted by agregoli at 10:38 AM on December 1, 2016 [56 favorites]
People that would have been brought to the polls for downballot races would be less motivated if their districts' outcomes were foregone conclusions.
If we're talking about motivation here: "87,810: Number of voters [in Michigan] this election who cast a ballot but did not cast a vote for president. That compares to 49,840 undervotes for president in 2012."
posted by griphus at 10:43 AM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
If we're talking about motivation here: "87,810: Number of voters [in Michigan] this election who cast a ballot but did not cast a vote for president. That compares to 49,840 undervotes for president in 2012."
posted by griphus at 10:43 AM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
no i heard bernie personally calls greg every night and tells him what opinions to have
Turns out you can pick up bad ideas by hearing them via the media, too!
posted by praemunire at 10:54 AM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
Turns out you can pick up bad ideas by hearing them via the media, too!
posted by praemunire at 10:54 AM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
(P.S. I voted for Bernie in the primary, but everything he's said about so-called "identity politics" since the election has sure made me think that POC and women were even more justified in being wary of him than I thought.)
posted by praemunire at 10:58 AM on December 1, 2016 [37 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 10:58 AM on December 1, 2016 [37 favorites]
Why are we talking about Bernie again?
I know you didn't bring him up just as a way to sideswipe critics of Hillary Clinton.
posted by grobstein at 11:15 AM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
I know you didn't bring him up just as a way to sideswipe critics of Hillary Clinton.
posted by grobstein at 11:15 AM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
I was kind of wondering when we could just talk about the sexism around the campaign and women running for high office in and of itself and not have all the pushback of "not women, just THAT WOMAN" but I guess that time is never.
posted by zutalors! at 11:19 AM on December 1, 2016 [34 favorites]
This is an unusual thing to say, when it is typically the presidential race that motivates people to get out to their polling place (turnout is much higher in presidential election years.)
Typically, yes. But both candidates had historically high disapproval ratings as candidates. You know who brought Republicans out to the polls? It wasn't Trump's awesome ground game. It was the downballot candidates'.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 11:32 AM on December 1, 2016
Typically, yes. But both candidates had historically high disapproval ratings as candidates. You know who brought Republicans out to the polls? It wasn't Trump's awesome ground game. It was the downballot candidates'.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 11:32 AM on December 1, 2016
(And now, back to the makeup?)
posted by XtinaS at 11:35 AM on December 1, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by XtinaS at 11:35 AM on December 1, 2016 [5 favorites]
I was kind of wondering when we could just talk about the sexism around the campaign and women running for high office in and of itself and not have all the pushback of "not women, just THAT WOMAN" but I guess that time is never.
Isn't that literally every election thread?
this isn't an election thread.
posted by zutalors! at 11:42 AM on December 1, 2016 [8 favorites]
Isn't that literally every election thread?
this isn't an election thread.
posted by zutalors! at 11:42 AM on December 1, 2016 [8 favorites]
...the delicate balancing act of makeup-but-not-noticeable-makeup I have to go through to actually get taken seriously in academia. None and I still look like a disheveled student, and get treated like a student.
It gets better when you start growing some grey hairs and develop a few wrinkles. :/ (this from a 41yo bare-faced academic)
posted by heatherlogan at 11:45 AM on December 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
It gets better when you start growing some grey hairs and develop a few wrinkles. :/ (this from a 41yo bare-faced academic)
posted by heatherlogan at 11:45 AM on December 1, 2016 [4 favorites]
Mod note: For serious, let's drop the nth round of Bernie vs. Hillary stuff and maybe keep stuff that's more explicitly election chatter to the current thread there.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:51 AM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:51 AM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
Hey! Can we organize a nationwide No Makeup Day? It would be amazing (and I think empowering).
Yes. Let's allow women to leave off the makeup for a day. Saturday would be good.
This article generates chords causing the universe to quiver with issues both harmonic and dissonant. I believe MeFi's earlier discussion about makeup was laced with internecine rancor--men and women on either side in lockstep, firing volleys en masse at any "other" that poked its head up. Even limiting the topic to stage makeup doesn't seem to help.
I would read this article as a sort of metaphor for letting one's hair down after having to pose rigidly in the public eye for so long. However, as the Onion's article implies, nothing can ever be simple for a public figure.
Pallas Athena: thanks for the sonnets; a moment of sweetness in the eye of a storm.
posted by mule98J at 12:02 PM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yes. Let's allow women to leave off the makeup for a day. Saturday would be good.
This article generates chords causing the universe to quiver with issues both harmonic and dissonant. I believe MeFi's earlier discussion about makeup was laced with internecine rancor--men and women on either side in lockstep, firing volleys en masse at any "other" that poked its head up. Even limiting the topic to stage makeup doesn't seem to help.
I would read this article as a sort of metaphor for letting one's hair down after having to pose rigidly in the public eye for so long. However, as the Onion's article implies, nothing can ever be simple for a public figure.
Pallas Athena: thanks for the sonnets; a moment of sweetness in the eye of a storm.
posted by mule98J at 12:02 PM on December 1, 2016 [2 favorites]
2) the states she lost were aggressively gerrymandered
wait, what does this mean wrt state-level voting?
gerrymandering => artificially large Republican majorities in the state legislature => free reign on voter suppression
posted by straight at 12:37 PM on December 1, 2016 [6 favorites]
wait, what does this mean wrt state-level voting?
gerrymandering => artificially large Republican majorities in the state legislature => free reign on voter suppression
posted by straight at 12:37 PM on December 1, 2016 [6 favorites]
makeup" has changed definitions and now only means a professionally-done photo-ready face with color-correction, contour, highlight, eyebrow tint, falsies, and a cut crease. And if someone is only wearing a bit of foundation and lipstick, that's now a brave, bare face.
I not only reject this definition, I would also like to actively set it on fire.
posted by corb at 12:43 PM on December 1, 2016 [25 favorites]
I not only reject this definition, I would also like to actively set it on fire.
posted by corb at 12:43 PM on December 1, 2016 [25 favorites]
“It is not good enough for someone to say, 'I'm a woman! Vote for me!’” he continued, in what’s hard not to read as a criticism of Clinton’s campaign.
Earlier in the same speech he says:
posted by Apocryphon at 1:46 PM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
Earlier in the same speech he says:
But it's not good enough to say, “Hey, I'm a Latina, vote for me.” That is not good enough. I have to know whether that Latina is going to stand up with the working class of this country, and is going to take on big money interests.It seems like he's speaking against tokenism in general.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:46 PM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
It also seems he's arguing against strawmen.
posted by haapsane at 1:52 PM on December 1, 2016 [21 favorites]
posted by haapsane at 1:52 PM on December 1, 2016 [21 favorites]
mule98J: Yes. Let's allow women to leave off the makeup for a day. Saturday would be good.
You mean December 3? That has a good ring to it; our slogan can be "123, this is the real me!" It doesn't leave much time to organize the publicity campaign though.
posted by heatherlogan at 2:07 PM on December 1, 2016
You mean December 3? That has a good ring to it; our slogan can be "123, this is the real me!" It doesn't leave much time to organize the publicity campaign though.
posted by heatherlogan at 2:07 PM on December 1, 2016
As someone who doesn't wear make-up, what am I supposed to call my no-make-up look, since light/natural makeup has been determined to be no make-up?
Your "no-makeup no makeup" look.
12-3, it's just me!
posted by Autumnheart at 2:15 PM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
Your "no-makeup no makeup" look.
12-3, it's just me!
posted by Autumnheart at 2:15 PM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
METAFILTER: There's enough projection happening in this sentence to power another Jupiter probe.
posted by philip-random at 3:23 PM on December 1, 2016
posted by philip-random at 3:23 PM on December 1, 2016
Reading this, my second immediate thought was that Clinton had already thoroughly searched the entire house, starting with the wardrobe, and she was now out searching the surrounding woods for the Platform 9¾-/Narnia-equivalent portal to Crone Island. Can a MeFite local to her give her an assist?
Also +1 to National No Make-Up Day.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 3:34 PM on December 1, 2016 [10 favorites]
Also +1 to National No Make-Up Day.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 3:34 PM on December 1, 2016 [10 favorites]
National Hows About Women Wear Whatever Amount Of Makeup We Want, Including No Makeup, Without Your Feeling The Need To Comment, Or Indeed That It Is Any Of Your Business, Day
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:37 PM on December 1, 2016 [48 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:37 PM on December 1, 2016 [48 favorites]
National Hows About Women Wear Whatever Amount Of Makeup We Want, Including No Makeup, Without Your Feeling The Need To Comment, Or Indeed That It Is Any Of Your Business, Day
preach
posted by zutalors! at 3:45 PM on December 1, 2016 [3 favorites]
If you want people to see your facial expressions from further away, makeup cheeto dust is helpful.
posted by klanawa at 3:54 PM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by klanawa at 3:54 PM on December 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
National Hows About Women Wear Whatever Amount Of Makeup We Want, Including No Makeup, Without Your Feeling The Need To Comment, Or Indeed That It Is Any Of Your Business, Day
Yeah. As somebody with skin problems, I sometimes put on more of a face than I would otherwise because if I don't, the concealer I sometimes feel is necessary to hide my blemishes will stand out against my otherwise-bare skin. I would not thank anybody who tried to tell me that I would be happier and more empowered if I didn't wear it.
And if I'm wearing my lavender lipstick it probably means I feel great about myself and anyone who tries to makeup-shame me can get stuffed.
posted by Lexica at 8:30 PM on December 1, 2016 [7 favorites]
Yeah. As somebody with skin problems, I sometimes put on more of a face than I would otherwise because if I don't, the concealer I sometimes feel is necessary to hide my blemishes will stand out against my otherwise-bare skin. I would not thank anybody who tried to tell me that I would be happier and more empowered if I didn't wear it.
And if I'm wearing my lavender lipstick it probably means I feel great about myself and anyone who tries to makeup-shame me can get stuffed.
posted by Lexica at 8:30 PM on December 1, 2016 [7 favorites]
as the Onion's article implies, nothing can ever be simple for a public figure.
Quite so. Note that the Hillary head they photoshopped onto their nude was fully made up and coiffed.
posted by flabdablet at 1:39 AM on December 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Quite so. Note that the Hillary head they photoshopped onto their nude was fully made up and coiffed.
posted by flabdablet at 1:39 AM on December 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Has any male candidate for President ever faced that kind of flack for his changeable appearance characteristics?
Wherein we rediscover that false equivalency is a hill on which MattD is willing to die.
posted by aspersioncast at 6:32 AM on December 2, 2016 [9 favorites]
Wherein we rediscover that false equivalency is a hill on which MattD is willing to die.
posted by aspersioncast at 6:32 AM on December 2, 2016 [9 favorites]
If Hillary Fucking Popularvote Rodham wants to hang out in the Library of Congress wearing a choli, overalls, bunny slippers, and a babushka, then she has God-damned, gopher-gutted well earned the right to do so.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:54 AM on December 2, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:54 AM on December 2, 2016 [15 favorites]
Oh man, I just realized that I'll never get to see any photos of Carla Hayden and Hillary Clinton being awesome together. Dammit.
posted by aabbbiee at 2:07 PM on December 2, 2016
posted by aabbbiee at 2:07 PM on December 2, 2016
Without Your Feeling The Need To Comment, Or Indeed That It Is Any Of Your Business, Day
It is not only possible to make a commitment to never comment on the appearance of someone who isn't explicitly interested in your opinion, it also usually helps conversations wander over to much more interesting topics.
posted by straight at 9:35 PM on December 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
It is not only possible to make a commitment to never comment on the appearance of someone who isn't explicitly interested in your opinion, it also usually helps conversations wander over to much more interesting topics.
posted by straight at 9:35 PM on December 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
National Hows About Women Wear Whatever Amount Of Makeup We Want, Including No Makeup, Without Your Feeling The Need To Comment, Or Indeed That It Is Any Of Your Business, Day
Everyone is welcome to be the change by not posting or commenting on articles about the amount of makeup folks may or may not be wearing.
posted by grobstein at 3:34 PM on December 3, 2016
Everyone is welcome to be the change by not posting or commenting on articles about the amount of makeup folks may or may not be wearing.
posted by grobstein at 3:34 PM on December 3, 2016
Actually, being the change sometimes means calling out bullshit instead of turning a blind eye.
posted by billiebee at 4:22 PM on December 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by billiebee at 4:22 PM on December 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
Yes. Let's allow women to leave off the makeup for a day. Saturday would be good.
How generous of you. Saturday would be a good start, but how about a whole weekend, if that's not too radical a thought?
Mondays. Well, we all have a case of the Mondays, so let's sleep in for those few extra minutes. Tuesdays, no one really notices anyway. And Wednesday I have softball, so.
Thursdays aren't so important either. Fridays really should count as part of the weekend, I think we can all agree on that?
Do you see where I'm going, can you take it from here? Thanks.
posted by Dashy at 7:07 PM on December 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
How generous of you. Saturday would be a good start, but how about a whole weekend, if that's not too radical a thought?
Mondays. Well, we all have a case of the Mondays, so let's sleep in for those few extra minutes. Tuesdays, no one really notices anyway. And Wednesday I have softball, so.
Thursdays aren't so important either. Fridays really should count as part of the weekend, I think we can all agree on that?
Do you see where I'm going, can you take it from here? Thanks.
posted by Dashy at 7:07 PM on December 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
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