"Personally, it's not been worth it."
January 5, 2017 7:36 AM Subscribe
Nine months later, Lucy DeCoutere talks with CBC Radio about her experiences since the end of the Jian Ghomeshi trial (previously).
The love she received after the trial, DeCoutere says, "was harder to take than the trollage."
Apologies for the lack of a transcript.
The love she received after the trial, DeCoutere says, "was harder to take than the trollage."
Apologies for the lack of a transcript.
I am barely keeping from driving my fucking foot through my computer listening to this defense attorney.
posted by Etrigan at 8:05 AM on January 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 8:05 AM on January 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just as John Furlong, with help from Gary Mason, has won a victory of sorts against UBC. This is all the flip side of JT's "sunny ways."
posted by My Dad at 9:09 AM on January 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by My Dad at 9:09 AM on January 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Why is Furlong getting a pass and Jian is not?
posted by Keith Talent at 10:25 AM on January 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Keith Talent at 10:25 AM on January 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
Man I was so angry and sad and hurt for the way she was treated on the stand, and afterwards. Poor Lucy. Thank you for posting this - it doesn't go away.
If there's one - ONE - good thing that came out of the Jian G trial, it's that "missing stair" has become part of my lexicon.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 11:27 AM on January 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
If there's one - ONE - good thing that came out of the Jian G trial, it's that "missing stair" has become part of my lexicon.
posted by Dressed to Kill at 11:27 AM on January 5, 2017 [10 favorites]
Why is Furlong getting a pass and Jian is not?
Because he got right on it - there were stories immediately calling it an outrage throughout Vancouver. And UBC rolled right over and showed its belly, which is a thing it likes to do for white men in particular.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 1:11 PM on January 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Because he got right on it - there were stories immediately calling it an outrage throughout Vancouver. And UBC rolled right over and showed its belly, which is a thing it likes to do for white men in particular.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 1:11 PM on January 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
(Also, the redemption of Gomeshi is starting, going by a few people I've talked with, who were previously appalled at his behaviour and now are back in 'well, we mustn't rush to judgement' territory.)
posted by lesbiassparrow at 1:14 PM on January 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by lesbiassparrow at 1:14 PM on January 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
There was another thread on here that mentioned how some people believe if a victim does not report the crime and the perp goes on to commit again- That next tragedy is partly the first victim's fault for not reporting it.
I personally believe this as well. Please don't get me wrong- I completely understand WHY a person may choose to not report it given cases like this one. But I completely disagree with the notion that the perp gets off scott free. That may have been the case once, but nowadays he doesn't. Even if the court doesn't give justice, thanks to new media the word spreads like wildfire. And thanks to the bravery of these women there WILL be less future victims because now people know who this guy is. Also, now people know who that judge is and the powers that be and some in the media are now keeping an eye on that judge for future rulings. I believe this case was in canada and I'm not sure how judges are appointed there. But here, when judges make rulings like this word spreads and they often see that they have to be more careful the next time they're faced with a similar case. Same with the perp. He knows that if he wants people to believe he's innocent he CAN'T do this any longer with impunity. And many women know not to be alone around him who wouldn't have known had it not been for these ladies.
If something like this happened to me I would very much like to believe that I would come forward and fight. And that I would do so knowing that I unfortunately might not get justice... but at the very least I will be making it harder for the guy to get to as many future victims. Which I firmly believe these ladies have done. They are heroes for exposing all this truth despite the awful result of the trial.
posted by lazywanderer at 2:07 PM on January 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
I personally believe this as well. Please don't get me wrong- I completely understand WHY a person may choose to not report it given cases like this one. But I completely disagree with the notion that the perp gets off scott free. That may have been the case once, but nowadays he doesn't. Even if the court doesn't give justice, thanks to new media the word spreads like wildfire. And thanks to the bravery of these women there WILL be less future victims because now people know who this guy is. Also, now people know who that judge is and the powers that be and some in the media are now keeping an eye on that judge for future rulings. I believe this case was in canada and I'm not sure how judges are appointed there. But here, when judges make rulings like this word spreads and they often see that they have to be more careful the next time they're faced with a similar case. Same with the perp. He knows that if he wants people to believe he's innocent he CAN'T do this any longer with impunity. And many women know not to be alone around him who wouldn't have known had it not been for these ladies.
If something like this happened to me I would very much like to believe that I would come forward and fight. And that I would do so knowing that I unfortunately might not get justice... but at the very least I will be making it harder for the guy to get to as many future victims. Which I firmly believe these ladies have done. They are heroes for exposing all this truth despite the awful result of the trial.
posted by lazywanderer at 2:07 PM on January 5, 2017 [1 favorite]
That next tragedy is partly the first victim's fault for not reporting it.
I agree that what is being done by those victims who choose to come forward and fight is real and powerful and to be commended, but this phrasing is bullshit.
It's their fault if they weight the personal cost of coming forward and decide against suffering more? No, you know where the fault lies for that? It lies with the criminal who forced them to have to have to make that shitty decision in the first place.
posted by the latin mouse at 2:33 PM on January 5, 2017 [25 favorites]
I agree that what is being done by those victims who choose to come forward and fight is real and powerful and to be commended, but this phrasing is bullshit.
It's their fault if they weight the personal cost of coming forward and decide against suffering more? No, you know where the fault lies for that? It lies with the criminal who forced them to have to have to make that shitty decision in the first place.
posted by the latin mouse at 2:33 PM on January 5, 2017 [25 favorites]
There was another thread on here that mentioned how some people believe if a victim does not report the crime and the perp goes on to commit again- That next tragedy is partly the first victim's fault for not reporting it.
This is not just offensively bad, but demonstrably untrue.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:49 PM on January 5, 2017 [9 favorites]
This is not just offensively bad, but demonstrably untrue.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:49 PM on January 5, 2017 [9 favorites]
I do not know what was more offensive — the Crown's unnecessary bumbling of this trial, or the press's horrifying archaic and extremist misogynisitc interpretation of this entire affair that came off as some sort of whacked and repulsive hybrid of Victorian melodrama, 70's sexploitation flick, and a really contrived ABC After School Special. It was as if both those institutions had no grasp of reality, and, as usual, women got thrown under the bus.
The obliviousness of those reporting on the Ghomeshi debacle really had no moral compass or even rudimentary understanding of the dynamics of dating and domestic violence. If these same reporters used their logic during a domestic homicide as they did with this case, they would be blaming the murder victim for getting killed because she stayed with her husband. Their perspective was pure villainy.
A man can have nothing but irredeemable qualities, but if it looks like he may have one saving grace, he is off the hook, but if an otherwise upstanding woman has what seems to be a single flaw, she is crucified. It is a constant rig. It is bad enough the courts are not functioning in 2017, but that the press who covered this trial were as mentally stunted, truly boggles the mind.
I am certain all the women who came forward were traumatized more by the aftermath than the actual trigger incident. That we still have this sexist dysfunction is a true outrage. I have written about this topic before, but as hard as it is to fight in a rigged game, there can be no change unless people just don't go away.
The entire episode was a disgraceful one and that no changes are coming as a result of this outrage is sickening.
Thank you for the link.
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 3:52 PM on January 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
The obliviousness of those reporting on the Ghomeshi debacle really had no moral compass or even rudimentary understanding of the dynamics of dating and domestic violence. If these same reporters used their logic during a domestic homicide as they did with this case, they would be blaming the murder victim for getting killed because she stayed with her husband. Their perspective was pure villainy.
A man can have nothing but irredeemable qualities, but if it looks like he may have one saving grace, he is off the hook, but if an otherwise upstanding woman has what seems to be a single flaw, she is crucified. It is a constant rig. It is bad enough the courts are not functioning in 2017, but that the press who covered this trial were as mentally stunted, truly boggles the mind.
I am certain all the women who came forward were traumatized more by the aftermath than the actual trigger incident. That we still have this sexist dysfunction is a true outrage. I have written about this topic before, but as hard as it is to fight in a rigged game, there can be no change unless people just don't go away.
The entire episode was a disgraceful one and that no changes are coming as a result of this outrage is sickening.
Thank you for the link.
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 3:52 PM on January 5, 2017 [4 favorites]
Fuck Jian Ghomeshi.
posted by Fizz at 6:15 PM on January 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 6:15 PM on January 5, 2017 [7 favorites]
Mod note: lazywanderer, you made your point, let it drop.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 7:43 PM on January 5, 2017
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 7:43 PM on January 5, 2017
Why is Furlong getting a pass and Jian is not?
Ghomeshi was acquitted. But he also admitted he was a sexual sadist, and his behavior goes far and beyond typical BDSM--he admitted he liked to hurt women. In short, even if the plaintiffs were discredited, Ghomeshi came across as a creep.
The accusations against Furlong, on the other hand, were never really explored in any detail. He also enjoyed a pretty sterling reputation up until the 2012 Georgia Straight article by Laura Robinson. He was the competent CEO of the Olympics, and in Vancouver at least enjoyed a squeaky-clean image.
Furlong also worked really hard to discredit his accusers, successfully muddying the waters against Robinson. Furlong successfully turned the issue into a debate about whether or not he had sexually abused youth in Burns Lake forty years ago; the initial accusations were more about Furlong's alleged physical and emotional abuse of his students. There were no (as far as I can recall) sexual abuse allegations.
So it was easier for Furlong to "prove" that supposed sexual abuse allegations were false, when in fact Robinson had brought up the fact that he had essentially lied in the autobiography cowritten by Gary Mason, and that he had likely lied because he might be accused, after the fact, of abusing students.
Having Gary Mason on his side also helped rehabilitate Furlong as well. Mason is probably the most well-respected national reporter covering western Canadian affairs, and he has been so for at least 30 years (his book on Bill Vander Zalm, co-written with Keith Baldrey, is an entertaining read).
And Mason, for whatever reason, has decided that Furlong is telling the truth, and that he should be rehabilitated. It was Gary Mason that penned the G&M op-ed that scolded UBC for cancelling Furlong's speaking appearance.
And UBC can't do much about it, with the stupid Galloway thing, the stupid board politics that resulted in a president quitting a couple of years ago, the stupid sexual assault policies that silence victims...
But the establishment has decided to close ranks around Furlong. The First Nations people who live along Highway 16 must surely be understanding just how committed British Columbia is towards "reconciliation."
posted by My Dad at 8:15 PM on January 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
Ghomeshi was acquitted. But he also admitted he was a sexual sadist, and his behavior goes far and beyond typical BDSM--he admitted he liked to hurt women. In short, even if the plaintiffs were discredited, Ghomeshi came across as a creep.
The accusations against Furlong, on the other hand, were never really explored in any detail. He also enjoyed a pretty sterling reputation up until the 2012 Georgia Straight article by Laura Robinson. He was the competent CEO of the Olympics, and in Vancouver at least enjoyed a squeaky-clean image.
Furlong also worked really hard to discredit his accusers, successfully muddying the waters against Robinson. Furlong successfully turned the issue into a debate about whether or not he had sexually abused youth in Burns Lake forty years ago; the initial accusations were more about Furlong's alleged physical and emotional abuse of his students. There were no (as far as I can recall) sexual abuse allegations.
So it was easier for Furlong to "prove" that supposed sexual abuse allegations were false, when in fact Robinson had brought up the fact that he had essentially lied in the autobiography cowritten by Gary Mason, and that he had likely lied because he might be accused, after the fact, of abusing students.
Having Gary Mason on his side also helped rehabilitate Furlong as well. Mason is probably the most well-respected national reporter covering western Canadian affairs, and he has been so for at least 30 years (his book on Bill Vander Zalm, co-written with Keith Baldrey, is an entertaining read).
And Mason, for whatever reason, has decided that Furlong is telling the truth, and that he should be rehabilitated. It was Gary Mason that penned the G&M op-ed that scolded UBC for cancelling Furlong's speaking appearance.
And UBC can't do much about it, with the stupid Galloway thing, the stupid board politics that resulted in a president quitting a couple of years ago, the stupid sexual assault policies that silence victims...
But the establishment has decided to close ranks around Furlong. The First Nations people who live along Highway 16 must surely be understanding just how committed British Columbia is towards "reconciliation."
posted by My Dad at 8:15 PM on January 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
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Sadly, I'm also awaiting the inevitable redemption narrative that I am sure Ghomeshi and his publicists are likely crafting.
posted by Kitteh at 8:02 AM on January 5, 2017 [8 favorites]