We're Going to Build a Wall (No Guarantee It Will Hold)
March 3, 2017 12:18 PM Subscribe

Roughly an hour after President Donald Trump said he had "total" confidence in Attorney General Jeff Sessions, Sessions recused himself from present and future investigations of the Trump campaign. Sessions repeated his assertion that his meetings with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak were done in his capacity as Chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee, but then the Wall Street Journal revealed that he had used campaign funds to pay for the trip to Cleveland, contradicting the claim he was there on official business. The standard line seems to be that nobody recalls meeting with Kislyak.

Meanwhile, other leaks and contradictions keep showing up. The most egregious example of a "no comment" non-denial denial came from Carter Page, in a bumbling shambles of an interview where he confirmed several off-the-record meetings simply by talking too much. Mike Pence was revealed to have an AOL email account he used for official business, which was inevitably hacked. New Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin told his staffers in a meeting that leaks won't be tolerated; that leaked (this is a repeat of the State Department anti-leak memo from two weeks ago). As the Washington Post's Greg Sargent put it, "The GOP’s protective wall around Trump is beginning to crumble."

posted by fedward (2579 comments total) 116 users marked this as a favorite

When do the news media start giggling at the "I don't recall" statements? Or maybe this whole administration is suffering from rapid-onset dementia, and they just need medical help.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:23 PM on March 3, 2017 [10 favorites]

Nice work, fedward. Great opening hook.

In the right timeline, that sentence alone would be enough to bring down the government. Somehow we keep ending up in the timeline where "that sentence alone would..." never does.
posted by notyou at 12:23 PM on March 3, 2017 [19 favorites]

The American Civil Liberties Union has demanded documents from four federal agencies concerning a potential executive order that would sanction religiously motivated discrimination against LGBT people, members of minority faiths, women, and people seeking reproductive health care.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:24 PM on March 3, 2017 [49 favorites]

Josh Marshall's slowly unfurling bewilderment is what's getting me through.

He's trying so hard to find a way for this not to be the story it looks like, and yet.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:25 PM on March 3, 2017 [68 favorites]

REUTERS [3pm EST, 3/3/17]: Trump administration considering separating women, children at U.S.-Mexico border

Women and children crossing together illegally into the United States could be separated by U.S. authorities under a proposal being considered by the Department of Homeland Security, according to three government officials.

Part of the reason for the proposal is to deter mothers from migrating to the United States with their children, said the officials, who have been briefed on the proposal.

On the eve of Lebowskifest in LA, I think I'm ready to say: I'd prefer the nihilists, please.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:25 PM on March 3, 2017 [82 favorites]

From “Corrupt Clinton?” to “Nothing to See Here”: a tale of two Fox News email chyrons
posted by peeedro at 12:26 PM on March 3, 2017 [34 favorites]

Women and children crossing together illegally into the United States could be separated by U.S. authorities under a proposal being considered by the Department of Homeland Security, according to three government officials.

These are actual monsters. There is an old german book with woodcut illustrations and pages made out of human skin somewhere that is suddenly missing all of its monsters.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:27 PM on March 3, 2017 [171 favorites]

The party line coming from the deplorables who want to pretend to be otherwise is, "First off, Sessions simply misspoke, and secondly WHAT DID YOU THINK ABOUT CORRUPT HILLARY!? And thirdly, all politicians are corrupt, so it doesn't matter!" Usually in that order, and from half a dozen different people fitting the same mold.
posted by codacorolla at 12:31 PM on March 3, 2017 [11 favorites]

Wilbur Ross: We're 'up to our eyeballs' finding regulations to nix

He estimated that the Trump administration may ultimately save U.S. businesses “way into the tens of billions of dollars and very possibly approaching a hundred odd billions of dollars.”
posted by futz at 12:32 PM on March 3, 2017 [1 favorite]

Just a few hours ago Trump tried to deflect the talk by pointing out that Chuck Schumer (D-NY) met with Putin in 2003.

Schumer's reply: "I'll happily talk about my contact with Putin under oath. Will you?"
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:34 PM on March 3, 2017 [157 favorites]

Trump administration may ultimately save U.S. businesses “way into the tens of billions of dollars and very possibly approaching a hundred odd billions of dollars.

And they'll pass the ~~savings~~ cost on to you!
posted by uncleozzy at 12:35 PM on March 3, 2017 [12 favorites]

Obama administration officials filed a brief in support of transgender teen Gavin Grimm On Friday, members of the Obama administration filed an amicus brief in support of Gavin Grimm, the 17-year-old transgender Virginia teenager who will head to the Supreme Court on March 28 to fight for the ability to use the public facilities that match his gender identity.

Two former secretaries of education, Arne Duncan and John B. King Jr., signed onto the brief, as well as several officials from the departments of Education, Justice, Labor and Health and Human Services.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:35 PM on March 3, 2017 [41 favorites]

“Just like Jesus said, ‘The poor will always be with us,’” he said. “There is a group of people that just don’t want health care and aren’t going to take care of themselves.”

Maybe this guy needs a refresher on some of the other things Jesus said.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:35 PM on March 3, 2017 [145 favorites]

Kansas Congressman Roger Marshall: “Just like Jesus said..."

Mark 14:17
The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have Me.

Deuteronomy 15:11
For the poor will never cease to be in the land; therefore I command you, saying, 'You shall freely open your hand to your brother, to your needy and poor in your land.'

Christ, what an asshole.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:36 PM on March 3, 2017 [201 favorites]

He estimated that the Trump administration may ultimately save U.S. businesses “way into the tens of billions of dollars and very possibly approaching a hundred odd billions of dollars.”

I too have discovered savings in getting rid of regulations: the US government could save tons of money by just tossing nuclear waste right into lakes and oceans, instead of doing all the taking care of it somewhere mysterious! Amazing! See, all it takes is a person willing to think of bold, innovative solutions to these situations!

I think bigly. Thus I think good.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 12:39 PM on March 3, 2017 [25 favorites]

Kansas Congressman Roger Marshall: “Just like Jesus said..."

Matthew 25:40
"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

Just like they're the party of small government, they're the christian party. . .
posted by Carillon at 12:39 PM on March 3, 2017 [38 favorites]

"Just like Republican Jesus said, 'The poor will always be with you, so fuck them.'" [not even fake].
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:40 PM on March 3, 2017 [26 favorites]

About that nobody remembers meeting Kislak
#Sessions met w/ Kislyak for the 2nd time on Sept. 8. I did a LexisNexis search to see what was going on at that time. Here we go.
posted by adamvasco at 12:41 PM on March 3, 2017 [26 favorites]

Kansas Congressman Roger Marshall: “Just like Jesus said, ‘The poor will always be with us,’” he said. “There is a group of people that just don’t want health care and aren’t going to take care of themselves.”

Considering that Marshall is a medical doctor, how does writing off millions of people as undeserving of health care square with the Hippocratic Oath?
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:41 PM on March 3, 2017 [8 favorites]

Republican Jesus
I know I've linked this recently, but just the same -- JESVS v. JEEZUS [The Pain..., 2005]
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:43 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

I did a LexisNexis search to see what was going on at that time. Here we go.

That was a good effort and good tweetstorm, but when I first saw it was built entirely from LN searches my reaction was something like "what are the actual journalists doing?"
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:46 PM on March 3, 2017 [7 favorites]

These are actual monsters. There is an old german book with woodcut illustrations and pages made out of human skin somewhere that is suddenly missing all of its monsters.

The Trump admin is a bit too tacky and wretched to have ever graced the pages of Unaussprechlichen Kulten. Altho Trump does share the characteristics of poor impulse control, rancid hair and grotesque child hands with another classic German literary figure...
posted by FatherDagon at 12:46 PM on March 3, 2017 [9 favorites]

Heartbroken Russian Ambassador Thought Special Meetings With Jeff Sessions Were Very Memorable [SLOnion]
posted by figurant at 12:47 PM on March 3, 2017 [58 favorites]

I hope you don't mind, snuffleupagus, but I shared those two scripture passages in reply to the original article.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:49 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

A few more links I didn't want to try to shoehorn into the FPP because OMG everything is just too much these days:

The 25 other members of the Senate Armed Services Committee all say they had no meetings with Kislyak over the past year (Vox)
The web of relationships between Team Trump and Russia
G.O.P. Accused of Playing ‘Hide-and-Seek’ With Obamacare Replacement Bill (New York Times)
Conservative groups and lawmakers demanding ‘full repeal’ could derail Obamacare rollback (Washington Post)

There were probably more but I've lost the tabs.
posted by fedward at 12:50 PM on March 3, 2017 [38 favorites]

What obligation exists for a person (or persons) to report criminal activity? Is it legal, or merely ethical/moral?

I feel that's what's going to come of this: that the Trump campaign learned of the hacking and either tacitly or explicitly encouraged it and were kept on top of developments by the Russians. Whether or not they were privy to the actual information contained in the emails prior to their mass distribution is, to me, irrelevant.

If I'm right, it's a level of campaign malfeasance that doesn't quite rise to the level of Nixon in 1968 but is still pretty extreme in modern times.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 12:51 PM on March 3, 2017 [4 favorites]

Only 1341 days until the next presidential election.
posted by Pendragon at 12:51 PM on March 3, 2017 [6 favorites]

I hope you don't mind, snuffleupagus, but I shared those two scripture passages in reply to the original article.

By all means.
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:51 PM on March 3, 2017 [5 favorites]

From “Corrupt Clinton?” to “Nothing to See Here”: a tale of two Fox News email chyrons

The thing with Conservatives is that that they have so many more standards. They have approximately double the standards.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 12:53 PM on March 3, 2017 [169 favorites]

Only 1341 days until ~~the next presidential election~~ we expect to have another presidential election.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:54 PM on March 3, 2017 [10 favorites]

The President seems to be having some trouble working out the spelling for his next tweet.
posted by zachlipton at 12:54 PM on March 3, 2017 [52 favorites]

Only 1341 days until the next presidential election.

Only 1000 days until Trump is declared the winner of the next presidential election.
posted by happyroach at 12:56 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

futz from the last thread: I hate looking at his face. He's got some pepe the frog expressions and there is this one weird look he gives that reminds me of a dr. seuss character but I can't think of which one and it is driving me nuts.

Trump as the Cat in the Hat? Dr. Seuss’s stories find new political meaning:

ON THIS, the 113th birthday of Theodor “Dr. Seuss” Geisel, children’s literature scholar Philip Nel can’t help but see current political resonance within the late author’s incisive rhyming tales.

Because President Trump campaigned by pitching his message with fourth-grade level language, in fact, Nel thinks Seussian wisdom can provide illumination.

“There are many parallels between Seuss’s characters and Trump,” says Nel, an English professor at Kansas State University who wrote “Dr. Seuss: American Icon.” “Indeed, Trump is in many respects a caricature straight out of a Dr. Seuss book.”

posted by peeedro at 12:57 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

Only 1341 days until the next presidential election.

Only 613 days until the 2018 midterm elections.

Only 249 days until the 2017 local and state elections.

No time to waste.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:58 PM on March 3, 2017 [73 favorites]

I'm at the point where I don't even know what to call my Congresspeople about anymore. There are so many options I am paralyzed by indecision!
posted by dellsolace at 12:59 PM on March 3, 2017 [25 favorites]

So, America, the rest of the world has been talking and we've agreed to pay for the wall. Well, it's more of a dome. Just a dome really. Just gonna dome off the whole shebang for a while, let you folk figure it out. We'll see you in a few years. I'm pretty sure someone poked a few air holes in there.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 12:59 PM on March 3, 2017 [73 favorites]

Democrats really need to stop saying they've never met Kislyak, since that strategy really isn't working out so well. It's also moving the goalposts from meeting the guy, which is fine, to lying under oath about it after you've been involved in a secret plan to insert pro-Russian language into the GOP platform and Russian intelligence helped get your candidate elected, which is not so fine.
posted by zachlipton at 1:00 PM on March 3, 2017 [32 favorites]

They built a wall, now we're all paying for it.
posted by blue_beetle at 1:01 PM on March 3, 2017 [1 favorite]

TPM: In a significant reversal, a Trump campaign official on Thursday told CNN that he personally advocated for softening the language on Ukraine in the GOP platform at the Republican National Convention, and that he did so on behalf of the President.

Would someone with a more in depth understanding than my own be able to confirm if this is in fact as freaking huge as it seems to me? As in "there's smoke coming from this box which may very well prove to have a gun in it," huge?
posted by Naberius at 1:01 PM on March 3, 2017 [12 favorites]

Hearby is a funny typo, but obviously Pelosi needs to be more careful, too. She is clearly working with the Russians to sabotage the 2018 elections.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:01 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

The President seems to be having some trouble working out the spelling for his next tweet.

Also, even with correctly-spelled words, that's something the Sheriff of goddamn Nottingham orders nailed to a tree. Not a public communication from a president.
posted by uncleozzy at 1:02 PM on March 3, 2017 [20 favorites]

Shit just got real.

Trump has made enemies of a Savoyard.
posted by ocschwar at 1:02 PM on March 3, 2017 [14 favorites]

Trump has made enemies of a Savoyard.

This is why Trump won.
posted by zachlipton at 1:05 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

Imagine you're Kislyak, and every day when you come home from work, your family thinks you're an intruder and calls the police

Or you have to introduce yourself to your coworkers every day

Must be rough
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:05 PM on March 3, 2017 [30 favorites]

Lawfareblog: What Happens When We Don’t Believe the President’s Oath? "What does it even mean for a person who contradicts himself constantly, who says all kinds of crazy things, who has unknown but extensive financial dealings that could be affected by his actions, and who makes up facts as needed in the moment to swear an oath to faithfully execute the office?"
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:06 PM on March 3, 2017 [31 favorites]

Is this real life?
posted by greenhornet at 1:06 PM on March 3, 2017 [10 favorites]

I maintain that he should've been handcuffed and charged with perjury the second he finished taking the oath.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:07 PM on March 3, 2017 [46 favorites]

If you don't have time to watch the full Carter Page interview -- which really, make the time; you'll be glad, or sort of dazed, that you did! -- here's a shorter version.

[fake, but so on point, shamelessly stolen from Twitter]
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:08 PM on March 3, 2017 [4 favorites]

"Imagine you're Kislyak, and every day when you come home from work, your family thinks you're an intruder and calls the police

Or you have to introduce yourself to your coworkers every day

Must be rough"

Heartbreaking, even.

(EDIT: Damnit, beat to the punch by figurant)
posted by howling fantods at 1:08 PM on March 3, 2017

The President seems to be having some trouble working out the spelling for his next tweet.

So, using the "millions of illegals voted illegally" argument, where he expects to randomly throw serious accusations around with no consequence or expectation of further scrutiny. Yes, President Trump, if you have reason to believe of foreign interference with *anyone* in the government, you should be open to a full, independent, bi-partisan, transparent investigation of the highest priority. You aren't, because you don't even believe what you are saying, and you are covering up madly. I see you. We see you.
posted by orbit-3 at 1:08 PM on March 3, 2017 [18 favorites]

Would someone with a more in depth understanding than my own be able to confirm if this is in fact as freaking huge as it seems to me?

Well, it directly refutes the official line that the campaign had nothing to do with changing the platform language on Russia/Ukraine, though reporting at the time made clear that the campaign was dictating changes to that -- and only that -- part of the platform.
posted by holgate at 1:09 PM on March 3, 2017 [8 favorites]

целлофан, Mr. целлофан, shoulda been his name, Mr. целлофан, cause you can look right through him, walk right by him...and never know he's there
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:10 PM on March 3, 2017 [12 favorites]

snuffleupagus: Part of the reason for the proposal is to deter mothers from migrating to the United States with their children, said the officials, who have been briefed on the proposal.

Why thousands of migrant children are crossing the U.S. border alone (Deseret News, July 8, 2014)

Your supposed deterrent makes you not only monsters, but shows how little memory you have.

Forgetful monsters are the worst kind.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:12 PM on March 3, 2017 [39 favorites]

Pelosi and McCaskill are going to ruin a perfectly cromulent scandal because they couldn't keep their mouths shut.
posted by zachlipton at 1:12 PM on March 3, 2017 [9 favorites]

Oh HAY! Shitty, spineless absentee-senator Marco Rubio has been kicked out of his Tampa office over disruption from weekly protests.

The protests, of course, are because the pusillanimous chickenshit won't face his constituents at a town-hall.

BAHAHAHAHAHA! *gasp* *wheeze*

Fuck Rubio.
posted by Cookiebastard at 1:13 PM on March 3, 2017 [53 favorites]

When do the news media start giggling at the "I don't recall" statements?

Hmm, Majocchi said non mi ricordo a couple of hundred times and the Pains and Penalties Bill still passed the Lords, though the press ridiculed him silly. So that's one data point.
posted by Emma May Smith at 1:14 PM on March 3, 2017 [1 favorite]

We’re Going to Build a Wall (No Guarantee It Will Hold)

Would also accept “We Choose To Build A Wall Because It Is Hard.”
posted by Going To Maine at 1:16 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

D'awwww, tardigrades...
posted by adamgreenfield at 1:16 PM on March 3, 2017 [13 favorites]

The President seems to be having some trouble working out the spelling for his next tweet.

"I hereby demand a second investigation, after Schumer, of Pelosi for her close ties to Russia, and lying about it" is what it will presumably say once those spelling kinks are worked out.

It's an apt microcosm of the difficulties the Trumpists are having in the transition from shouting on the sidelines to wielding actual power.

You think Schumer / Pelosi / Clinton / Obama have ties to Russia that ought to be investigated? Then launch a damn investigation for Christ's sake, you have the power to do that! You can't just throw out finger-pointing tweets anymore, people will just laugh.

He still, still doesn't get it. The buck stops with him now, whether he likes it or not. To the winner goes the mantle of responsibility.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:16 PM on March 3, 2017 [66 favorites]

Let's forget Betteridge's law for a moment: Can This Democrat Win the Georgia Sixth? (New Yorker, March 3, 2017)

Lst Saturday, Jon Ossoff, a tall, skinny, thirty-year-old candidate for the U.S. Congress with Kennedy-ish features and a deliberate, Obama-like manner of speaking, was scheduled to knock on doors in Roswell, a city in Georgia’s Sixth Congressional District. Over the past three decades, the district has been represented by Newt Gingrich, current Georgia Senator Johnny Isakson, and Tom Price, the new Secretary of Health and Human Services. Price’s appointment to the Cabinet left the seat empty, and a special election to fill it will be held on April 18th. The Sixth encompasses many of Atlanta’s wealthy and mostly white northern suburbs, and has long been considered a Republican lock; in 2012, Mitt Romney beat Barack Obama by twenty-four points in the district. But in the most recent election Donald Trump edged Hillary Clinton by just a single point here. Ossoff thinks he can turn the sixth blue, and claim the first congressional win against Trump on the G.O.P.’s own turf.

But to keep you from getting even a moment of hope for humanity, let's continue with the article and hear from the GOP in the area:

Jere Wood, the longtime Republican mayor of Roswell, disagrees. “This isn’t a youth vote up here,” he told me at his office, when I asked him about the makeup of the Sixth. “This is a mature voter base. If someone is going down the list, they’re gonna vote for somebody who is familiar.” He paused. “If you just say ‘Ossoff,’ some folks are gonna think, ‘Is he Muslim? Is he Lebanese? Is he Indian?’ It’s an ethnic-sounding name, even though he may be a white guy, from Scotland or wherever.”

Ossoff is indeed a white guy, though he is not from Scotland. His father is a Jew of Russian-Lithuanian descent who owns a specialist publishing company, and his mother is an Australian immigrant and management consultant who co-founded a nonprofit aimed at electing women—of either party—to political office in Georgia. “Our name was probably truncated at Ellis Island,” Ossoff told me. “From something like Ossoffsky.”

His parents still live in the Sixth. Ossoff resides ten minutes south, where his longtime girlfriend can walk to class at Emory University’s medical school.

Jere, what kind of name is that? Sounds foreign to me, like it's from Germany or Sweden or something. See how that works, Mayor Wood? It's an easy, stupid game to play, so let's not play it.

Back to the brightness:

In high school, Ossoff interned with the congressman and civil-rights icon John Lewis, whose memoir, “Walking With the Wind,” deepened his interest in politics and social justice. Ossoff considers Lewis his mentor, and it was Lewis, he said, who “told me that if any Democrat can win the Sixth, you can.”

Fuck yeah, Ossoff!
posted by filthy light thief at 1:19 PM on March 3, 2017 [95 favorites]

You can't just throw out finger-pointing tweets anymore, people will just laugh.

Not his people. His people are just as ignorant of the process and deluded as he is.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:19 PM on March 3, 2017 [8 favorites]

"...makes up facts as needed..."

now is the time to be precise. facts cannot be made up. verifiably false assertions can be made.
posted by j_curiouser at 1:22 PM on March 3, 2017 [12 favorites]

“Our name was probably truncated at Ellis Island,” Ossoff told me. “From something like Ossoffsky.”

Heh, obviously not in touch with his Lithuanian roots. Something like "Ossoffaukas" would be closer to an actually Lithuanian name.
posted by sideshow at 1:22 PM on March 3, 2017 [7 favorites]

> He still, still doesn't get it. The buck stops with him now, whether he likes it or not. To the winner goes the mantle of responsibility.

My theory is that if Trump is ever successfully held to account for any of his actions, he'll melt or turn into a pillar of salt or something.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:24 PM on March 3, 2017 [10 favorites]

One nice thing about the higher thread frequency, it's causing me to look at the MF front page more often.
posted by Coventry at 1:27 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

My theory is that if Trump is ever successfully held to account for any of his actions, he'll melt or turn into a pillar of salt or something.

He was getting away with them until his serious run for the Presidency.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:27 PM on March 3, 2017

diogenes: TPM: In a significant reversal, a Trump campaign official on Thursday told CNN that he personally advocated for softening the language on Ukraine in the GOP platform at the Republican National Convention, and that he did so on behalf of the President.

Naberius: Would someone with a more in depth understanding than my own be able to confirm if this is in fact as freaking huge as it seems to me? As in "there's smoke coming from this box which may very well prove to have a gun in it," huge?

More from the TPM article:

CNN’s Jim Acosta reported on air that J.D. Gordon, the Trump campaign’s national security policy representative at the RNC, told him that he made the change to include language that he claimed “Donald Trump himself wanted and advocated for” at a March 2016 meeting at then-unfinished Trump International Hotel in Washington, D.C.

This is big because it adds to the USA Today story, which revealed that Gordon and Carter Page, another former Trump adviser, met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak at the GOP convention, months before the talks that Sessions forgot he had with Kislyak, which totally weren't about the Trump campaign.

In short, to me this seems like Team Trump has been coordinating with Russia for at least a year now, seeing as it is now March 2017. The talks that Sessions forgot and/or dismisses were not the beginning of the coordination, but rather the continuation of a working relationship.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:28 PM on March 3, 2017 [88 favorites]

Just tossed Ossoff $50. My sister-in-law lives in that district (I think) and every single one of her kid's friends are East or South Asian. This is not a Whitey McWhitecracker district, at least not completely. Demographics have shifted.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:29 PM on March 3, 2017 [11 favorites]

Earth can support multicellular life for another 500 million years, which is plenty of time for tardigrades to develop a peaceful spacefaring civilization. That's the optimistic thought I rely on to get through the day at the moment.

Parochial chauvinism! Remember, there is an advanced civilization out there somewhere, which will go on when we've wiped ourselves out, even if we take the tardigrades with us.
posted by Coventry at 1:32 PM on March 3, 2017 [4 favorites]

The talks that Sessions forgot and/or dismisses were not the beginning of the coordination, but rather the continuation of a working relationship.

Yes, that was a big part of why I thought it was huge. An even bigger element is that this is (as far as I know, which admittedly isn't that far) the first time Trump has been personally tied to this instead of being able to pass it off as the work of over-zealous aides who carefully didn't tell him what they were doing. or something like that. It seems to be the first breach of the plausible deniability protecting him from actual, honest to god impeachment.
posted by Naberius at 1:34 PM on March 3, 2017 [6 favorites]

This is perhaps the greatest photograph of Hillary Clinton ever taken (note the newspaper headline)
posted by zachlipton at 1:35 PM on March 3, 2017 [83 favorites]

BTW if you have access to HBO streaming (via Go, Now, or Amazon) you can watch "All the President's Men." "Forget the myths the media's created about the White House. The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand."

I would also highly recommend Tim Weiner's One Man Against The World. Relevant quote: "It is almost like we have a death wish."
posted by Coventry at 1:36 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

Just tossed Ossoff $50. My sister-in-law lives in that district (I think) and every single one of her kid's friends are East or South Asian. This is not a Whitey McWhitecracker district, at least not completely. Demographics have shifted.

On that, from an article titled Could The Resistance Start With Georgia’s Special Election? (The Daily Beast, Feb. 27, 2017)

While Mitt Romney dominated the district by 24 points, Donald Trump only carried it by a point, with 48% to Hillary Clinton’s 47%. Other than a district in Utah, the seat had the second-largest swing toward Democrats of any in the country compared to 2012.

The article also notes that "although [Rep. Tom] Price was consistently reelected, his margin of victory shrank by about four points with every election cycle with even a weak opponent."
posted by filthy light thief at 1:37 PM on March 3, 2017 [8 favorites]

Not his people. His people are just as ignorant of the process and deluded as he is.

His people meaning the 27%+, yes. But (as that State Department article from last thread noted at length), he simply doesn't have a lot of people who are able and willing to serve in government, and the sheer incompetence of his team and the almost physically impossible task they have of running the federal government with a mere handful of people is already straining even Fox's ability to cover them with a straight face.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:38 PM on March 3, 2017 [9 favorites]

I sometimes see comments about how spineless the Democrats are, but as I've been calling my reps over the past few weeks, I've been trying to keep an eye on their statements (partly so that, if they've already done the thing I'm calling to ask them to do, I can say thank you instead of saying "Please vote against/speak out about this horrible thing" when they've already done just that).

I've been pleased at a lot of the unequivocal, clearly progressive language I've been seeing in Minority Leader Pelosi's press releases and statements: Sessions "lied under oath" and "the law has been broken" (no waffling there), "transgender students deserve to be safe in their community", Republicans working to destroy the ACA are "too terrified of their constituents" to be open and "disgracing every pledge of transparency", the President "has jeopardized the security of our country" with "dangerous, incompetent and unconstitutional actions", Priebus "committed an outrageous breach of the FBI’s independence" and "tainted the impartiality of the FBI", Congress needs to "end systemic discrimination and institutional racism" (I seem to remember it being huge when speakers used the actual phrase "institutional racism" at the DNC, and I'm glad they're not backing away from recognizing it), and I keep seeing the word "cruel" in all kinds of contexts.

I'm glad and encouraged to see her speaking plainly, and doing what she can, in a Republican-controlled legislature, to introduce, co-sponsor, and push for legislation I support.

My California Senators are a bit less inspiring, especially Senator Feinstein, but I have been encouraged to see that after voting to confirm a bunch of cabinet nominees including Pompeo, she then voted against Sessions, DeVos, Tillerson, and Carson. (Indeed, if you look at the cabinet votes, it looks like Democratic Senators overall have been responding to their constituents and moving away from "yes of course we vote to confirm unless the nominee eats puppies" and "why vote No when the Republicans will win anyway" to "oh, I guess our constitutents actually care how we vote on this, huh, guess I'll vote No on this obviously unqualified person".)

I wanted to share these observations with my fellow MeFites because I think politics is an appallingly thankless job, and I think positive reinforcement is important, so I try to really watch for my reps to do something I appreciate and then make sure to thank them. Later today, I'm going to fax my thanks to Darrell Issa, who is not my rep, just because I appreciate him calling for an independent prosecutor on Russia.

I have a lot to say to my representatives these days, and I want to make sure "thank you" is a big part of it when they do things that reflect what I'm asking of them.
posted by kristi at 1:38 PM on March 3, 2017 [119 favorites]

Demographics have shifted.

Yep, this is a similar (though slightly more affluent) area to the one the Boston Globe wrote about last year. It is the area that the Atlanta baseball team considers its mostly-white suburban base, which is why its new stadium is out on the perimeter. But it's also diverse middle-class commuters.

The result matters less than the manner in which the campaign is conducted. If Ossoff can acquit himself well and demonstrate to the district's Democrats that there's a way to convert opposition into a campaign, that's a good springboard for what follows.
posted by holgate at 1:54 PM on March 3, 2017 [1 favorite]

10 Facts Show Trump’s EPA Budget 'Is A Fantasy'

Former EPA scientists to Trump: ‘Evidence does not change when the administration changes’

Trump’s Proposed EPA Cuts Threaten Health & Lives of Tens of Millions of Americans
posted by homunculus at 2:00 PM on March 3, 2017 [18 favorites]

I'm having a hard time digesting the proposed EPA budget cuts these vile assholes have proposed. They appear to be targeted disproportionately at blue states, meaning these fuckers are attempting to use control of the federal budget to punish states that voted against them.

A sampling:

Puget Sound. Funding for restoration work in the country's second-largest estuary would be cut from $28 million to $2 million.
The Great Lakes. Funding to combat algae blooms, invasive species and other water pollution problems in the world's largest group of freshwater lakes would be cut from $300 million to $10 million.
The Chesapeake Bay. Funding for restoration in the country's largest estuary would be cut from $73 million to $5 million.
Research on endocrine disruptors. The EPA's work studying chemicals that can interfere with the body's reproductive and developmental systems would nearly be eliminated, dropping from $7.5 million to $445,000.
Diesel emissions. Since 2008, the EPA has issued grants to accelerate the country's transition from old, dirty diesel engines to cleaner burning trucks and equipment. They've been responsible for most of Oregon's progress in addressing cancer-causing diesel soot, a major air pollution source.

Funding for the Bay Area, radon, targeted airsheds, and beach water testing are entirely eliminated, while education and funding for border environment protection are slashed. The Great Lakes restoration, which impacts a number of swing states which narrowly swung for Trump, has been cut by 97%. While I like the Trump administration kicking themselves right in the balls in terms of reelection chances, I like a healthy Great Lakes system much more.

Furthermore: 'Just racist': EPA cuts will hit black and Hispanic communities the hardest
posted by Existential Dread at 2:00 PM on March 3, 2017 [69 favorites]

.They appear to be targeted disproportionately at blue states, meaning these fuckers are attempting to use control of the federal budget to punish states that voted against them.

They absolutely will do this every chance they get.
posted by Artw at 2:04 PM on March 3, 2017 [43 favorites]

One nice thing about the higher thread frequency, it's causing me to look at the MF front page more often.

Isn't this the front page?
I don't visit the front page as much as I used to (daily) and until recently I hadn't seen it in months. I only have time for The Thread That Never Ends.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:12 PM on March 3, 2017 [47 favorites]

Puget Sound. Funding for restoration work in the country's second-largest estuary would be cut from $28 million to $2 million.

This is pure Trump, right in the wheelhouse of the only thing he does well - hardball negotiating. This is his first offer -- 80 percent cuts to programs. He knows he won't get it. In the end it gets conference-committeed down to a 20 percent cut - and he will boast that he achieved the biggest cuts to liberal programs in history, and declare victory.

The rest of us lose.
posted by martin q blank at 2:13 PM on March 3, 2017 [22 favorites]

Lawfareblog: What Happens When We Don’t Believe the President’s Oath?

There's a loophole: the oath of office says he will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States "to the best of my ability." He's incompetent, so the oath doesn't apply.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:15 PM on March 3, 2017 [18 favorites]

The Great Lakes. Funding to combat algae blooms, invasive species and other water pollution problems in the world's largest group of freshwater lakes would be cut from $300 million to $10 million.

See also:
Trump administration blocking project to keep Asian carp from Great Lakes: Scientists say species could cause severe harm to native fish populations

I've had the privilege of knowing Great Lakes researchers, and the level of international cooperation around certain areas of cleanup, preservation, and ecosystem research have been remarkable.

It's hard to understate how incredibly fucked up this funding cut would be for people on both sides of the border. And the ecosystem of the Great Lakes knows no borders.

This is pure Trump, right in the wheelhouse of the only thing he does well - hardball negotiating. This is his first offer -- 80 percent cuts to programs. He knows he won't get it. In the end it gets conference-committeed down to a 20 percent cut - and he will boast that he achieved the biggest cuts to liberal programs in history, and declare victory.

Sigh. Yeah. This is a calculated strategy on his part.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:18 PM on March 3, 2017 [12 favorites]

They appear to be targeted disproportionately at blue states, meaning these fuckers are attempting to use control of the federal budget to punish states that voted against them.

I've been saying it for months, they're governing not for the US as a whole, but as a punitive occupying force extracting reparations from defeated Democrats. Trump has not set foot in a blue state since election night, and I don't expect he will for his entire term. He's truly "not our president", and he's making it very clear he doesn't even intend to try to be.

They fully believe that only Republicans deserve to have any voice in government, and only Republicans should be permitted to even receive the benefit of what few government programs will be left standing. Anything that benefits blue states, or Democratic constituencies, will be targeted for elimination on that basis alone.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:19 PM on March 3, 2017 [80 favorites]

With Trump's latest tweet, he seems to be trying to remind us that he gave a speech earlier this week, in the hope that we just circle back to praising him for going an hour without calling anybody "Pocahontas" and not accidentally setting the House rostrum on fire and ignore everything that's happened since.
posted by zachlipton at 2:19 PM on March 3, 2017 [8 favorites]

Sigh. Yeah. This is a calculated strategy on his part.

That's no reason not to respond to it as if it were his genuine plan. What does $290 million work out to in lost jobs?
posted by contraption at 2:20 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

With Trump's latest tweet

god fucken christ this asshole talks like a ten year old trying to rally an army of four year olds
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:20 PM on March 3, 2017 [46 favorites]

Conservative crackdown on protests would label North Carolina dissenters “economic terrorists” - Repression is on the march in the home of the “Moral Mondays” movement.
posted by homunculus at 2:21 PM on March 3, 2017 [29 favorites]

This is pure Trump, right in the wheelhouse of the only thing he does well - hardball negotiating. This is his first offer -- 80 percent cuts to programs. He knows he won't get it.

I kind of like the idea of Republican voters getting a lesson on what exactly it would look like if we drown the federal government in the bathtub. (But only as a theoretical number in a stupid negotiating tactic. The actual cuts would be a far bigger disaster than the lesson would be worth.)
posted by diogenes at 2:21 PM on March 3, 2017 [1 favorite]

appear to be targeted disproportionately at blue states, meaning these fuckers are attempting to use control of the federal budget to punish states that voted against them.

Is there a solid list of states he's punishing? I want to see if he's punishing all blue states, or just the blue states that had Republican rebellions against him.

I mean I guess I can't say I wasn't warned.
posted by corb at 2:22 PM on March 3, 2017 [6 favorites]

Copied from other thread, because I hadn't seen the msgs that we'd moved over to another new thread. We're gonna run out of threads at this rate, y'all.

The Austin "festival" SXSW, has decided they want to maga by threatening artists whom SXSW does not pay to perform, that if they do any other shows while in town, SXSW will turn them in to ICE, cancel their hotel rooms, have them deported, and report them for visa violations. I mean, I've been anti-sxsw for years, but this is some fucked up shit, right here.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:23 PM on March 3, 2017 [22 favorites]

[Fake, unfair, but funny] @FutureCNN
RUSSIA PROBE WEARS ON SESSIONS
"EACH DAY WASTED ON THIS, BLACK FOLKS ARE OUT THERE COMMITTING VOTER REGISTRATION."
posted by Coventry at 2:25 PM on March 3, 2017 [44 favorites]

contraption: That's no reason not to respond to it as if it were his genuine plan. What does $290 million work out to in lost jobs?

Oh, for sure. The proposal itself is frightening on its own terms - I just filled a glass of water that comes from Lake Ontario.

What I was getting at was he's going to swing for the fences and even if there's enough resistance for it to get toned down, it's still very, very bad in that lesser form, both environmentally and economically.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:25 PM on March 3, 2017 [1 favorite]

What does $290 million work out to in lost jobs?

Well, I ran a quick check a few months ago and IIRC there are about 2m jobs in the US that relate to environmental compliance. A lot of that work is government funded, either directly or indirectly by contracting out for support on hazardous waste management or whatever.

Shutting down EPA, or more importantly the implementing federal laws that authorize EPA, would result in massive job losses around the country. And then there would be the long-term damage to public health and safety, and the environment.
posted by suelac at 2:25 PM on March 3, 2017 [9 favorites]

> [Fake, unfair, but funny]

...unfair?
posted by tonycpsu at 2:26 PM on March 3, 2017 [12 favorites]

I just donated to Ossoff too. I'll have to pack a lunch the next few days to make up for it, but that seems well worth it. It'd be amazing to see democratic change happen that fast.

His website is here, in case anyone else is interested, and there's a big donate button up in the corner.
posted by juice boo at 2:26 PM on March 3, 2017 [10 favorites]

This is a good point that I don't think has really sunk in yet:

A President openly "demanding" investigation of political opponents undermines the very foundation of our democracy: the rule of law.
posted by diogenes at 2:30 PM on March 3, 2017 [64 favorites]

I've been saying it for months, they're governing not for the US as a whole, but as a punitive occupying force extracting reparations from defeated Democrats. Trump has not set foot in a blue state since election night, and I don't expect he will for his entire term. He's truly "not our president", and he's making it very clear he doesn't even intend to try to be.

So that feeling that we're already in a Cold Civil War isn't crazy?

I really wanted it to be crazy.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:36 PM on March 3, 2017 [38 favorites]

The...Civil Cold?
posted by schadenfrau at 2:37 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

In case anyone missed this story last night:

TRMS Exclusive: DHS document undermines Trump case for travel ban

In leaked document, the case for Trump’s ‘Muslim ban’ takes another huge hit

MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow had an important scoop on Thursday night that further undercuts the substantive case for Trump’s ban, which would restrict entry into the country by refugees and migrants from select Muslim-majority countries. Maddow obtained a new internal Department of Homeland Security document that reached this key judgment:
We assess that most foreign-born, US-based violent extremists likely radicalized several years after their entry to the United States, limiting the ability of screening and vetting officials to prevent their entry because of national security concerns.
This new document is separate from another DHS document that was leaked to the press last week. That one also undercut the case for the ban, concluding that “country of citizenship is unlikely to be a reliable indicator of potential terrorist activity.”

The new document obtained by Maddow weakens the central rationale for the ban, which is to put a temporary delay on entry into the United States for the express purpose of tightening up our vetting procedures. DHS’s conclusion appears to be that vetting procedures in particular are not that useful in screening out people who radicalize later, and that most foreign-born emigrants to the United States who become violent extremists fall into that category.

At this rate, I think it's only a matter of time until Trump's people start following Cheney's and Rumsfeld's example by manufacturing false intelligence which tells him what he wants to hear:

Trump May Choose “Alternative Intelligence” to Support His “Alternative Facts,” Former Agents Warn
posted by homunculus at 2:39 PM on March 3, 2017 [12 favorites]

This is pure Trump, right in the wheelhouse of the only thing he does well - hardball negotiating. This is his first offer -- 80 percent cuts to programs. He knows he won't get it. In the end it gets conference-committeed down to a 20 percent cut - and he will boast that he achieved the biggest cuts to liberal programs in history, and declare victory.

You think this but there's no pushback from anybody with any real power. The Republicans operate in lockstep and the Democrats can't filibuster reconciliation. We can kick and scream and kick up a fuss but in the end this isn't a negotiating tactic, this is just ripping the guts out of anything that isn't the military and wealthy tax cuts.
posted by Talez at 2:39 PM on March 3, 2017 [12 favorites]

So that feeling that we're already in a Cold Civil War isn't crazy?

I think that's exactly what this is. Look at things like labeling protesters "economic terrorists", openly calling for "another Kent State", and the NRA's increasingly violent rhetoric at CPAC. It's cold, for the moment, but they're slowly turning up the heat until something triggers a violent crackdown against liberals. It's not going to remain cold for 4 years.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:41 PM on March 3, 2017 [44 favorites]

European Parliament votes to end visa-free travel for Americans

So this was posted in the last thread. I know we've probably moved on (I was way behind, sorry), but I thought it was worth mentioning that the above article from the Independent, which I also saw posted multiple times on Facebook (with several people literally panicking about future travel plans as a result), is extremely misleading. No change has been made, and it's very likely to stay that way - most EU member states (particularly those in Western Europe) aren't going to be willing to take the economic hit from imposing visa requirements on Americans. Not to mention that even if they did implement something, it'd be years out and most likely would be an ESTA-style electronic authorization - easily and quickly done online.

Here's a less clickbait-y headline Euro lawmakers press EU to impose visas on US Citizens

Not great, but nothing to panic about yet - we've got plenty else to deal with.
posted by photo guy at 2:44 PM on March 3, 2017 [10 favorites]

I wondered when we'd get this...threat to our local (Dallas) JCC and a swastika poster on a major highway median.
posted by emjaybee at 2:46 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

Nice straightforward tweet from McMullin:

What we know: The Trump campaign had repeated contact with Russian officials as they worked to tip our election to Trump. That's reality.

He's setting himself up to be a in a solid position for 2020.
posted by diogenes at 2:53 PM on March 3, 2017 [36 favorites]

USCIS has announced it will suspend H1-B premium processing on April 3 for six months.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:53 PM on March 3, 2017 [1 favorite]

> Trump going for several pieces of Scotch tape on his tie today.

See, this is petty stuff (just like that well-done steak and ketchup derail) but I just can't seem to get over these small things. It's such a lack of ... class? taste? refinement? intellectual curiosity? And it's not one thing, it's pervasive.

I'm sure some pundit somewhere is ready to wag their finger at me and tell me that this is how Trump is signalling his connection to his deplorable base, and maybe that's even true, but just ugh.

I didn't know I was such a latte-sipping elitist liberal. Better go order my Volvo now. (And I swear that tweet image was there when I looked at it and started my comment.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:04 PM on March 3, 2017 [4 favorites]

man, talk about tripping over your own dick. listening to Franken's question to Sessions, it's clear that he wasn't asking Sessions whether he had any contact with the Russian government, and Sessions just goes there and blurts out this blatant lie, completely unbidden. he could have even copped to it, "yeah, sure, I talked with the Russian Ambassador about the campaign's views on Russia" and it wouldn't have been a big deal; it's not illegal and not unusual. he must be a total fucking moron, and for that I am grateful, because the longer they stay mired in scandal, the less attention they get to devote to putting their abominable agenda into action.
posted by indubitable at 3:06 PM on March 3, 2017 [16 favorites]

For anyone yearning for a kindler, gentler, Trumpless Cold War, The Americans season five premieres on Tuesday (3/7.)
posted by Room 641-A at 3:07 PM on March 3, 2017 [22 favorites]

USCIS has announced it will suspend H1-B premium processing on April 3 for six months.

It's nothing political. H-1B applications have been piling up for years. The whole system is just a clusterfuck. FY17's cap was reached in a week.
posted by Talez at 3:08 PM on March 3, 2017 [7 favorites]

Conservative crackdown on protests would label North Carolina dissenters “economic terrorists” - Repression is on the march in the home of the “Moral Mondays” movement.

The bill would create a new felony charge applied to any criminal offense that leads to at least $1,000 in economic harm to any business, if the offender intended to intimidate the government or the public. Separate language in the proposal would make it illegal to block traffic as part of a protest or demonstration.

Fooking cowards. "They're saying mean things about our efforts to do awful things to them!"

Hopefully the death of Arizona's similarly terrible proposed law is an indication of how this will go down, too.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:08 PM on March 3, 2017 [40 favorites]

Sadly tweet not available zachlipton

I have a copy, but I'm not finding it on Instagram where it's supposed to be, and therefore have doubts about its authenticity. I'll see what I can track down. Sorry for the tape alarm.

As a replacement, please continue to enjoy this picture of The Interior Secretary, and the Horse He Rode in On.
posted by zachlipton at 3:12 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

More from the first link:

The proposal is so broad it could potentially be used to ensnare people like the Rev. William Barber II, a key leader of the state’s Moral Mondays protests.

“Many of these extremist legislators cannot stand protest because it doesn’t allow them to do in the dark the work they’re doing that’s hurting so many people,” Barber told ThinkProgress. “This is an old game. It is an attempt to malign movements that work and that challenge what the system is doing.”

The mass meetings Barber helps convene are rigorously peaceful, but numerous participants have been arrested for acts of civil disobedience or at the request of legislators. Such arrests could, under the broad language of the bill, be construed as felonies if a prosecutor linked the protest in question to an economically harmful boycott or street closure.

I can't speak from first-hand experience, or even living during that time, but this sounds like the Civil Rights protests all over again. Do they not remember how that went? The south lost, again. So is this Revenge of the South Part II: Fascist Boogaloo?
posted by filthy light thief at 3:12 PM on March 3, 2017 [28 favorites]

Transcripts may be my favorite word these days.

@mitchellreports:
ICYMI: @ChrisCoons says FBI has transcripts that could show Russian leaders colluding w/ Trump campaign http://on.msnbc.com/2mk1at5
posted by chris24 at 3:12 PM on March 3, 2017 [54 favorites]

Do they not remember how that went? The south lost, again.

Reverend Barber has been doing some incredible analysis on what he is calling the 3rd reconstruction. I would highly recommend reading his sermons and articles.
posted by Sophie1 at 3:18 PM on March 3, 2017 [18 favorites]

Merriam-Webster strikes again.
posted by Sophie1 at 3:22 PM on March 3, 2017 [36 favorites]

indubitable: "Sessions just goes there and blurts out this blatant lie, completely unbidden"

As many others have pointed out, this is the shadiest part: meeting with the Russian ambassador is not illegal and, in many cases, not even improper. So why the heck is basically everyone in Trump's orbit lying about their meetings with him? As anyone who's ever watched Law & Order (or, I guess, anyone who wasn't born yesterday) realizes, it's because they were pretty clearly involved in sketchy shit and are too fucking dumb to even lie about it properly.
posted by mhum at 3:22 PM on March 3, 2017 [24 favorites]

Wilbur Ross: We're 'up to our eyeballs' finding regulations to nix

Speaking on CNBC Friday morning, Ross said he would seek the input of business groups including the National Association of Manufacturers, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the National Federation of Small Businesses and others.

Feds turn to Foxes for Henhouse Redesign.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:25 PM on March 3, 2017 [9 favorites]

The Americans season five premieres on Tuesday (3/7.)

I stopped watching when the Dad was getting railroaded into having sex with the underage girl.

That show is pretty blatant anti-liberal propaganda. I enjoy propaganda usually, but there are limits.
posted by Coventry at 3:26 PM on March 3, 2017 [1 favorite]

“Our name was probably truncated at Ellis Island,” Ossoff told me. “From something like Ossoffsky.”

Heh, obviously not in touch with his Lithuanian roots. Something like "Ossoffaukas" would be closer to an actually Lithuanian name.

The name wasn't changed at Ellis island, but his guess is actually pretty close. His great-grandfather Israel Ossoff's petition for naturalization shows that he was a native of Vilnius, and the record of his arrival gives his surname as "Oschowsky".
posted by Knappster at 3:28 PM on March 3, 2017 [21 favorites]

My concern is not simply that these people kept meeting with the Russian Ambassador and not simply that they keep lying about it, but that several of the people with Russia-related ties were involved in the Trump campaign's effort to insert pro-Russia language into the GOP platform (not the pro-Ukraine language that was proposed, nor simply remaining neutral on the subject), which they also then lied about.
posted by zachlipton at 3:31 PM on March 3, 2017 [14 favorites]

Is this "economic harm" thing an already existing legal concept? Because I've never heard it before in a legal context.

That law sounds like it could criminalize strikes, and picket lines, too.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 3:31 PM on March 3, 2017 [6 favorites]

@mitchellreports: ICYMI: @ChrisCoons says FBI has transcripts that could show Russian leaders colluding w/ Trump campaign

Couldn't MSNBC at least asked why he believes that? Is there evidence, or does he believe it because he thinks Trump is evil?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 3:31 PM on March 3, 2017

several of the people with Russia-related ties were involved in the Trump campaign's effort to insert pro-Russia language into the GOP platform

And per Gordon's changed story last night, this was at Trump's direction from March. So Quid just met Quo.
posted by chris24 at 3:32 PM on March 3, 2017 [6 favorites]

> Sadly tweet not available zachlipton

> I'll see what I can track down. Sorry for the tape alarm.

Forgot I still had that tab open. Here's a screenshot of the scotch tape tweet.
posted by christopherious at 3:38 PM on March 3, 2017 [17 favorites]

Is this "economic harm" thing an already existing legal concept?

If I remember correctly that term was used in the mid-90's to help define "ecological terrorism" (another particularly galling subject all on it's own)
posted by Golem XIV at 3:47 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

Is this "economic harm" thing an already existing legal concept?

Yes, it's an element of certain types of claims or requisite for certain types of damages.

(Typically phrased as "economic loss," though.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:51 PM on March 3, 2017

Is this "economic harm" thing an already existing legal concept? Because I've never heard it before in a legal context.

There was an Ohio 1st Amendment case where the state tried to claim a compelling state interest in restricting speech during a fair on public property, because it was unfair to the participants who'd actually paid for a booth, and would reduce the state's income from the fair. It went as far as the 6th circuit federal appeals court, and the state lost because the judge decided that economic harm did not constitute a sufficiently compelling interest. Seems like it might be relevant here, although NC is in the 4th circuit.

The protected speech was anti-abortion, so swings and roundabouts, I guess.
posted by Coventry at 3:52 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

I don’t know which becomes more troubling, the current administration doing putin’s bidding, or the legislative branch not doing anything about it. Their off-hands approach make it seem as though congress (and by extension, sessions) might be in on the scam.

And if enough of congress is in on it, that guarantees the third arm of government, the judicial via the supreme court falls into place.

It all just keeps getting real-er.
posted by SteveInMaine at 3:55 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

Not unusual? Are you sure about that? How often does the Russian Ambassador meet with a presidential campaign's surrogate at an event held in connection with the party's national convention?

The State Department invited many ambassadors to the convention for events including a speech by Sessions, which the Russian ambassador attended.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 3:56 PM on March 3, 2017

The protected speech was anti-abortion, so swings and roundabouts, I guess.

It's really a remedies concept, used to differentiate between certain theories of recovery in tort vs. contract and measure damages. Thus the attempt to extend it by statute.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:57 PM on March 3, 2017

snuffleupagus, what's a remedies concept, and what does the term refer to here? And what is someone attempting to extend by statute? (The "economic terrorist" laws?)
posted by Coventry at 4:02 PM on March 3, 2017

Never mind, I understand now.
posted by Coventry at 4:07 PM on March 3, 2017

Well it's not like it's the first time he taped his tie.
posted by ckape at 4:07 PM on March 3, 2017 [1 favorite]

Well, I don't want to derail too much. And remedies is one of those areas of the law that's hard to discuss without the building blocks. But, in essence, remedies is about what can be awarded by a court for which kinds of claims.

The economic loss rule is a classic doctrine that says you usually can't recover in tort (negligence, strict liability, etc) for purely economic loss. You have to sue on a contract of some kind. Torts are for property damage or personal injury, etc. There are exceptions, but that's the general flavor.

Legislation alters background law by statute. So, legislators can try to authorize certain remedies for purely economic losses by passing a law about it. Then, it may or many not pass judicial review on basic legal doctrine, other law or Constitutional restrictions, etc.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:08 PM on March 3, 2017 [8 favorites]

That Carter Page interview was a complete disaster. I'm amazed that he let it go that way. Why did he even agree to the interview?
posted by bshort at 4:10 PM on March 3, 2017

Thanks, snuffleupugas. Interesting.
posted by Coventry at 4:11 PM on March 3, 2017

It's such a lack of ... class? taste? refinement? intellectual curiosity? And it's not one thing, it's pervasive.

I'm going to take a stab at articulating this because it bugs the hell out of me too. Like, rationally I know it's just a weird derail but it's just SO weird and it's all these different odd details. Take the steak thing. If someone likes a certain kind of steak a certain way, we generally don't think anything of it. We assume that they're competent and experienced enough to have considered the options and determined that "well done" is how they like their steak. But when we're talking about $100+ per plate steaks, well done with ketchup can't possibly be what tastes best to him right!? My guess is that his dad ordered steak that way because it was shitty steak and that was the best way to choke it down. Donald has simply never considered that better steaks would taste better prepared differently and without the goddamn ketchup.

The ties are similar. They're too long because he isn't aware that he should be tying it differently. It's just the one and only way to tie a tie and these are some fancy ties therefor this must look good. We'd expect that he'd ask his tailor or he'd get different ties, have someone shorten these ones, or any number of less weird and more effective ways to deal with the ties than fucking scotch tape!

Are these things important? No, absolutely not. But they're also so very, very basic things that everyone else who lives Trump's lifestyle has figured out. I'd think that even if someone pulled themselves up by their boot straps and rose to the head of a company as large as Trump's, someone would have a "dude, you're an executive now, you're going to appear places speaking for the company. It's important that you not look like a dip shit who doesn't know how to tie a tie."

But that never happened for Trump, and if he doesn't bother to figure out these basic, obvious things, what other more important things hasn't he bothered to figure out? We see a lot of the same stuff in his policy remarks where it's obvious that he doesn't understand basic concepts that someone in his position should know.

So then the question becomes, is there anything he has bothered to figure out? Is there anything he will bother to figure out? That's...a scary question to be asking about the president of the united states.
posted by VTX at 4:12 PM on March 3, 2017 [108 favorites]

For anyone that may find it useful, LAist has a basic form letter for women that may want to explain to her boss why she is taking off work to strike on March 8
posted by Room 641-A at 4:16 PM on March 3, 2017 [5 favorites]

Judge: White House Statements On Travel Ban Plans Seem To "Contradict" Statements To Courts:

In his order, Robart referenced those statements — “Plaintiffs cite numerous transcripts of White House press briefing and of a presidential news conference that are available on the White House website in support of their argument” — and gave a soft warning to the lawyers representing the administration.

“The court understands Plaintiffs’ frustrations concerning statements emanating from President Trump’s administration that seemingly contradict representations of the federal government’s lawyers in this and other litigation before the court,” Robart wrote. “Nevertheless, the court will continue to rely on the representations of the government’s attorneys, as officers of the court, which indicate that the new Executive Order will ‘rescind,’ ‘replace,’ ‘supersed[e],’ and ‘substantially revise[]’ the existing Executive Order.”

This does not seem to be going well.
posted by zachlipton at 4:19 PM on March 3, 2017 [26 favorites]

West Virginia Republican senator says Medicaid expansion “better be” in Obamacare replacement
posted by Coventry at 4:21 PM on March 3, 2017 [22 favorites]

The schadenfreudeist part of the Freedom Caucus' opposition to the ACA repeal is that 'The perfect is not the enemy of the good' is actually working for the left, which is such a breath of fresh air.
posted by eclectist at 4:21 PM on March 3, 2017 [4 favorites]

VTX: The ties are similar. They're too long because he isn't aware that he should be tying it differently.

I don't believe that. I'm pretty certain that he ties them that way because he believes that it hides his paunch and makes him look taller. Or he could just want his ties to point to his crotch. *shudder*
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:25 PM on March 3, 2017 [12 favorites]

Or he could just want his ties to point to his crotch. *shudder*

There is no other reason on this earth to wear a tie.
posted by delfin at 4:27 PM on March 3, 2017 [9 favorites]

Or he could just want his ties to point to his crotch. *shudder*

There is no other reason on this earth to wear a tie.

Hell, all my ties have arrows on them
posted by Existential Dread at 4:28 PM on March 3, 2017 [13 favorites]

It's probably too early and too much to call this a Cold Civil War, but it sure seems that a lot of news stories about Trump's scandals that head out with legs come back without them.
posted by Catblack at 4:29 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

Marcy Wheeler: Five Data Points on the Sessions News: Jeff Sessions is almost certainly not going to be prosecuted for perjury. But that doesn't mean the exposure of his non-disclosure of Russian ties isn't important.

Jeff Sessions' Narrow Recusal: Jeff Sessions only recused himself from investigations about the election. That leaves a number of other areas of concern that he should recuse on.

Wheeler on Democracy Now: As Sessions Recuses Himself From Campaign Investigation, Questions Remain Over Trump-Russia Ties

MARCY WHEELER: As people think about it, it’s helpful to think about the three things that we should be concerned about with Russia and Donald Trump. And the first is whether or not anybody on his campaign was involved in the hack of Hillary Clinton, whether or not they were kind of operating with the Russians. The second one is whether we know — and Trump was very open about his opening to Russia, his willingness to negotiate with Russia. The question is whether there was any kind of quid pro quo, whether there was any kind of inappropriate influence to get that outcome. And then the third is that Trump has these business associations going back decades with kind of shady businessman who have ties to Russia. The question in there is, do those relationships risk posing undue influence on him going forward, possibly the bribery or some kind of coercion on policy? And all of these discussions about the meetings with the ambassador — and that’s mostly what we’re talking about, Amy, is that over and over again, various Trump aides or campaign people or Associates, what have you, met with the Russian ambassador to the United States. And that in and of itself is not suspect. People meet with ambassadors all the time. In fact, Mike McFaul, who was Obama’s ambassador to Russia, keeps saying that he’s — he’s a hawk on Russia, but he keeps saying we should not make it criminal to meet with Russians. What’s tricky here is Trump’s people have gotten questions over and over again, did you meet with X, Y, and Z? Did you meet with X, Y, and Z? And there is always, as there is with, with Ambass — Attorney General Sessions, there is always this obfuscation about it, and that raises questions about whether those meetings with Ambassador Kislyak were on the up and up or whether there were something more going on. With regards to sessions recusal, it’s a very narrow recusal. And there was some bad reporting on this yesterday. Everyone’s like, well, he’s recused on every thing that has to do with X, Y, and Z. You know what, actually, all he said is that he’s recusing from anything having to do with the elections. And so, for example, he has already been asked, would you recuse yourself from any ongoing investigation in Mike Flynn’s discussions with Russia in the transition period? And he didn’t answer that. And laying out what I just did, that there are these questions of business associations, there are these questions of quid pro quo to change our policy toward Ukraine, those aren’t election related per se unless they were quid pro quo to elect Trump in order to implement this Ukraine policy. And Sessions hasn’t recused from that. And those are, frankly, where some of the biggest smoke is. So, he hasn’t recused from that yet. He actually was asked twice during his confirmation process about ties to Russia. The one he addressed yesterday was a question in the hearing from Al Franken about whether he, as an election official, met with any Russians, which, as you pointed out, he actually did

posted by homunculus at 4:29 PM on March 3, 2017 [14 favorites]

delfin:

It's the truth that you should never trust anybody who wears a bow tie. Cravat's supposed to point down to accentuate the genitals. Why'd you wanna trust somebody whose tie points out to accentuate his ears?

posted by Coventry at 4:29 PM on March 3, 2017 [8 favorites]

It is a bit dated (Nov 2016) but relevant and related to the above W. Virginia story In Depressed Rural Kentucky, Worries Mount Over Medicaid Cutbacks
posted by robbyrobs at 4:29 PM on March 3, 2017 [1 favorite]

As far as 'illegal,' there are a few ways it could be illegal. The most mundane, of course, is the Logan Act, which isn't enforced much, but under which it's pretty clearly a federal crime for someone who does not have authorization to act on the United States' behalf (e.g. a Senator who doesn't have authorization from the State Department) to meet with foreign officials for the purpose of influencing those officials or their governments.

"isn't enforced much" in this case translates into "There appear to have been no prosecutions under the act in its more than 200-year history." So I'm sticking with "not illegal".

And that's just if Sessions' meeting was totally "innocent" as he seems to be claiming it was, rather than, just to speculate, a meeting where Roger Stone had told Sessions that the Russians had hacked the DNC and Sessions then met with the Ambassador to seek his or Russia's support of the Trump campaign, even in the abstract.

And if he literally ate a live baby during this meeting, well, that's at least manslaughter right there. But that's all speculation. Meeting with the Russian ambassador is not in itself illegal, and it's weird that he would go out of his way to lie about it. Changing the party platform to favor a rapprochement with Russia is not in itself illegal (and Trump's campaign won their primary, it's their agenda to set) and it's weird that they would lie about doing it.
posted by indubitable at 4:34 PM on March 3, 2017 [4 favorites]

Hell, all my ties have arrows on them

I thought they were only on pre-order!

posted by robocop is bleeding at 4:34 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

WaPo: White House proposes steep budget cut to leading climate science agency

The Trump administration is seeking to slash one of the government’s premier climate science agencies by 17 percent, delivering steep cuts to research funding and satellite programs, according to a four-page budget memo obtained by The Washington Post.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:36 PM on March 3, 2017 [8 favorites]

it sure seems that a lot of news stories about Trump's scandals that head out with legs come back without them.

What do you mean by this? His scandals absolutely have legs. The deeper we dig on the Russia connection, the more we are finding. It's been going on for a year. Everyone's talking about it, both media and lay public. What more does a scandal have to do to earn its lower appendages?
posted by saturday_morning at 4:39 PM on March 3, 2017 [21 favorites]

Its 2017 and the only thing holding back the fascist regime is goddamn Stuart Smalley
posted by angrybear at 4:41 PM on March 3, 2017 [55 favorites]

Ehhh, he's good enough.
posted by downtohisturtles at 4:43 PM on March 3, 2017 [50 favorites]

Its 2017 and the only thing holding back the fascist regime is goddamn Stuart Smalley

1992 me would never believe time machine me that Senator Franken is fighting to stop a fascist takeover by President Trump.
posted by chris24 at 4:44 PM on March 3, 2017 [152 favorites]

In the even-darker-timeline, "Stuart Saves His Family" was an enormous success and Franken never ran for office.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:46 PM on March 3, 2017 [29 favorites]

Miami-Dade’s Policy of Holding Inmates for ICE Is Unconstitutional: Florida Judge
posted by futz at 4:51 PM on March 3, 2017 [36 favorites]

It's high time we brought the word "Quisling" back into popular usage. We start with "Quisling administration" and perhaps end with "Donald Quisling Trump."
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 4:56 PM on March 3, 2017 [21 favorites]

This is stepping back to earlier, simpler times, but there was a comment on BBC Radio 4 earlier about Trump's round of golf with Rory Mcilroy. Apparently they were talking about the golf courses Trump is developing around the world. The ones the company he apparently no longer runs is developing anyway.

You know, in the other timeline, I think he'd be severely damaged just for the blatant failure to divest from his business interests.
posted by MattWPBS at 5:04 PM on March 3, 2017 [7 favorites]

I stopped watching when the Dad was getting railroaded into having sex with the underage girl. That show is pretty blatant anti-liberal propaganda. I enjoy propaganda usually, but there are limits.

That's too bad. I found it squicky, too, but ultimately thought they handled it quite well.

I don't see the propaganda angle, at all. The person I know who works on the show is awfully liberal, and the work environment is by their account also quite liberal.

This is a derail, though, so I suppose the conversation should continue over in the relevant Fanfare threads.
posted by Superplin at 5:08 PM on March 3, 2017 [6 favorites]

It's probably too early and too much to call this a Cold Civil War,

I disagree--I think it's too late. It shouldn't have been allowed to go on this long, but this stuff has its roots in The Reconstruction. It's just coming to the surface and more people are starting to understand those ignored tensions have still been there. Sessions is an old school, racist Southern confederate to his bones. This was at least partly a neoconfederate takeover. Like any country trying to sow division, Putin's Russia has been bolstering and supporting our frustrated wannabe radical revolutionary separatists.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:09 PM on March 3, 2017 [60 favorites]

Cold Civil War

"The past is never dead. It's not even past."
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:13 PM on March 3, 2017 [24 favorites]

Carter Page is on with Anderson Cooper right now. Somehow he is even worse and more ridiculous than on Hayes. He's trying to claim that when he said he was in "meetings" with Russians he was at "rallies" and something about the Russian meaning of the word "meeting" because he kinda speaks Russian but not really and oh my god is this real life.
posted by Justinian at 5:14 PM on March 3, 2017 [25 favorites]

пчелы
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:16 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'd think that even if someone pulled themselves up by their boot straps and rose to the head of a company as large as Trump's, someone would have a "dude, you're an executive now, you're going to appear places speaking for the company. It's important that you not look like a dip shit who doesn't know how to tie a tie."

For many executives, this is what their wife would be doing -- picking out clothes, making sure her husband eats properly.

It's not just that Trump isn't willing to marry an equal. He's not willing to marry someone he'd take advice from, even in the domestic sphere. I'll bet Mrs. Pence spent years fussing over her husband's wardrobe. I can't imagine Trump letting anyone do the same.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:17 PM on March 3, 2017 [16 favorites]

Miami-Dade’s Policy of Holding Inmates for ICE Is Unconstitutional: Florida Judge

The judge and the lawyer who brought the suit (pro bono) are heroes.

What I've likened it to is your parents come home and ask you how things were and what was up today and you immediately blurt out I WASN'T SMOKING WEED!

Or the criminal that says "I didn't kill Jeff with a fork!" but the cop never said how Jeff was killed.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:17 PM on March 3, 2017 [4 favorites]

Page seems to be smiling through the interview too. I have a feeling that he'd like to see the house of cards implode.
posted by futz at 5:20 PM on March 3, 2017

The judge and the lawyer who brought the suit (pro bono) are heroes.

From the link:

"This doesn't help [Lacroix] — he's probably going to be deported, but this will help everyone else. [The ruling] is a direct blow to the president and his executive order," Reizenstein said. "It's a courageous blow by this judge."

Reizenstein said he took on Lacroix's case pro bono after he went to court on Tuesday for a different matter and saw the man plead guilty to a crime for which he had already served his sentence and not be released.
...
"This case should appeal to conservatives all over country, but they're not conservative. They're anti-immigrant, and in this case the president of the United States blackmailed the county, and the mayor buckled,"...Just before the ruling in his favor, Lacroix was taken into federal custody, Reizenstein said.
...
It's unclear what effect Hirsch's ruling will have on the city or Trump's order. Reizenstein says he hopes it will give other lawyers in the county a guide to get their unconstitutionally imprisoned clients out as well. "Were going to publish this order so other lawyers will have a blueprint to get their clients released...We hope other judges will be as courageous."

posted by snuffleupagus at 5:20 PM on March 3, 2017 [17 favorites]

Regarding the Reuters article Trump administration considering separating women, children at Mexico border mentioned above I am a gonna say it because damn it, someone has to, but that is literally, as in actually, as in reality, or whatever is the correct fucking adverb, what the Nazis did at Auschwitz. I stood on that goddamn platform when I visited there and could feel the horror 70 years on. I walked up and down trying to imagine what it must have been like. And now a so-called democratic country wants to do the same thing. Jesus wept.
posted by vac2003 at 5:24 PM on March 3, 2017 [102 favorites]

In Red-State Utah, a Surge Toward Obamacare

You know, good for Utah Republicans (the Mcmuffins, not the Lees or Chaffetzs), but this shit would've done a lot more good, I don't know, at literally any other point over the last 7 years. They're only now deciding that maybe better health outcomes are valuable, where before denying anything resembling agreement with Obama was the more pressing concern. And this is what passes as the reasonable wing of the Republican Party.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:29 PM on March 3, 2017 [48 favorites]

Talking points, re: NOAA funding cuts, that I came up with as quickly as possible:

* Funding NOAA programs (particularly EOSDIS and other atmospheric science programs) is essential to national security when it comes to weather and climate. Even the DoD knows this, and they partner with NOAA in order to protect our nation's military/defense.

* Funding NOAA programs is essential to fight climate change and sea level rise, and to ensure that our coasts remain happy places to live, not to mention strong economic centers.

* NOAA programs employ thousands of US climate scientists who will be forced to seek employment abroad if they're laid off. Brain drain is bad.
posted by unknowncommand at 5:31 PM on March 3, 2017 [44 favorites]

Regarding the Reuters article Trump administration considering separating women, children at Mexico border mentioned above I am a gonna say it because damn it, someone has to, but that is literally, as in actually, as in reality, or whatever is the correct fucking adverb, what the Nazis did at Auschwitz.

It's in fact, somehow, worse than that.

After deportation trains arrived at the killing centers, guards ordered the deportees to get out and form a line. The victims then went through a selection process. Men were separated from women and children....
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:33 PM on March 3, 2017 [9 favorites]

I never want to hear about Compassionate Conservatism and Family Values again so long as I live.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:36 PM on March 3, 2017 [107 favorites]

"isn't enforced much" in this case translates into "There appear to have been no prosecutions under the [Logan] act in its more than 200-year history." So I'm sticking with "not illegal".

It's also possible that no other incoming Administration was under the thumb of a foreign government, so it was not actually violated before.
posted by msalt at 5:37 PM on March 3, 2017 [12 favorites]

WHY does Carter Page go on TV and act like this? And the Clinton vendetta against him is the root of all his woes. He also looks like he is on something or on the verge of a psychotic break. very very very odd dude.
posted by futz at 5:38 PM on March 3, 2017 [9 favorites]

Random question: were the Trump folks meeting with ambassadors and officials from other countries? He made that ridiculous trip to Mexico during the campaign in August, and the trip to Scotland for his golf course, but beyond that, were they meeting with anybody else? Because it seems odd that the Russian Ambassador is talking to basically everyone on multiple occasions, they insert pro-Russian planks into the platform, and Carter Page is being sent by the campaign to Moscow, but nobody's mentioned how they met with lots of other foreign officials to talk policy.

Trump had zero foreign policy experience. It wouldn't have been out of the ordinary for him to take various meetings to try to give a better impression in that area. Romney spent a bunch of time during his campaign trekking around Europe. Sure, he committed one gaffe after another while he was there, but nobody accused him of conspiring with foreign agents, because he and his staff met with a lot of different countries and didn't lie about it, nor did those countries interfere in the election in his favor.

So did anybody from the Trump campaign meet with officials from any other country or was it all just Russia?
posted by zachlipton at 5:39 PM on March 3, 2017 [16 favorites]

NOAA data is, by the way, used by ... all sorts of people all over the nation. City water departments, park departments, municipal planners, farmers, fishers, dock managers, outdoors enthusiasts. Cutting NOAA, it just, it boggles the mind.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 5:40 PM on March 3, 2017 [51 favorites]

Here's three minutes of the Anderson Cooper/Carter Page interview. Still trying to get the whole thing.

This man is so weird.
posted by zachlipton at 5:52 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

WHY does Carter Page go on TV and act like this?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It really is perplexing. Of all the theories, "rando hanger-on who people assumed was meant to be in the room" now makes more sense than his being an asset or NOC, but whatever career he had before this, I don't see him resuming it afterwards.
posted by holgate at 5:53 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

UNDOCUMENTED DAD TAKEN BY ICE WHILE DROPPING KIDS OFF AT SCHOOL

Mireles said the girls' father had a nearly decade-old DUI conviction and an incident 20 years ago where the father said he bought a car with an incorrect registration sticker, unbeknownst to him. Both were reasons given for the deportation.

They're getting all the bad hombres out.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:54 PM on March 3, 2017 [15 favorites]

This WaPo article from tonight does a decent job of outlining all the Trump-Russia contacts that have emerged over the past 48 hrs or so and putting them into a sort of a timeline.
posted by Dr. Send at 6:04 PM on March 3, 2017 [8 favorites]

I'm really bothered by DUI constantly being treated like all reasonable people consider it a petty-not-actually-a-real-crime-just-technically a crime thing. (Like after those raids when some guy made a statement saying something"We're not talking about people with a DUI here, these are real criminals!")

DUI is a deadly serious criminal offense which should carry heavy penalties and is, from a moral point of view, not that different from manslaughter. An impaired driver is a manslaughterer who got lucky. Now I'm not saying every DUI driver should be deported (nor every manslaughterer), but it seems like as good a reason for deportation (or denial of entry) as any other serious crime.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:06 PM on March 3, 2017 [22 favorites]

Hell, with the frequency of hurricanes and major North Atlantic storms, cutting NOAA is asininely stupid for anyone who owns expensive property near the coast... like in Florida and NYC. Trump is so vindictive he spites himself.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 6:11 PM on March 3, 2017 [4 favorites]

Hell, with the frequency of hurricanes and major North Atlantic storms, cutting NOAA is asininely stupid for anyone who owns property near the coast... like in Florida and NYC. Trump is so vindictive he spites himself.

Without an NOAA, insurers won't be able to tell Trump that he should have known better than to build stuff in Florida and NYC.
posted by Etrigan at 6:13 PM on March 3, 2017 [8 favorites]

Driving itself is not that different from manslaughter. You take on an unacceptable risk of killing someone, even if the risk is slightly lower than it is if you're slightly over the legal limit.
posted by Coventry at 6:15 PM on March 3, 2017 [13 favorites]

I suppose that if I got in too deep with some deeply murky shit after a career as a peripheral player in a murky environment, I might do bizarre interviews on cable news to suggest I'd sing like a canary if offered immunity and a new identity.
posted by holgate at 6:17 PM on March 3, 2017 [5 favorites]

A DUI is certainly serious. Nobody is trying to excuse it. But a single DUI 10 years ago (plus some kind of vehicle licensing mixup 20 years ago), which is generally a misdemeanor, is a horrifying reason to drag someone away from his children at school and seek to send him away for possibly forever. It's a crime the justice system can deal with, apparently successfully in his case since he hasn't done it again in a decade.

A foreign businessman with a 10-year-old DUI would be perfectly able to get a US visa, rent a car, and be driving right next to you.
posted by zachlipton at 6:19 PM on March 3, 2017 [43 favorites]

I think - here's where I am on the DUI thing. In normal times, I would think it's possibly fine to deport someone in the normal fashion for a DUI, even legal immigrants, because you're welcoming immigrants most of the time, and so it's clear the problem is the activity and not immigrants themselves, and it's fairly dangerous and flagrant.

But these aren't normal times. They took him at a school, 20 years later, and I just don't believe that la migra has suddenly discovered a new hatred of drunk driving.
posted by corb at 6:23 PM on March 3, 2017 [50 favorites]

Rep. Tom Garrett (R) arguing that it's appropriate to restrict attendance to his Town Halls because "America isn't a Democracy."
posted by Coventry at 6:25 PM on March 3, 2017 [56 favorites]

Do we ask every visa holder to the US if they've ever had a DUI? And assuming someone served the legal penalty for a DUI offense 10 years in the past (which is pretty reasonable seeing as how he was walking about free for 10 years), that's now justification for permanently expelling them from the country?

I think I said it shouldn't be automatic grounds for exclusion or deportation.

I would have assumed you do ask people applying for visas if they've been convicted of crimes (which I would assume included DUI). You don't? Canada does and (in another example of something indicating some people don't think it's a real crime) actually states that "yes, a DUI is a crime and grounds for exclusion") But as you've implied, if it was a long time ago and no sign that one has kept up the criminal behaviour (be it DUI or assault or robbery or anything else), then there's room to make a judgement call.

Besides "it was a long time ago and never done anything like it since" I think criminals having come to the place as a child is reason to not deport someone even if they're criminal and not a citizen. Many years ago, there was a high profile robbery murder in Toronto (Just Desserts, if you're super-duper interested) and the criminals were immigrants from Jamaica. There was lots of talk of deporting them at the time, which bothered me because they had come to Canada as toddlers. It seems like if someone arrives a bad person and does bad person stuff, then maybe there's a reason to send them back to where they came from and let the country that turned them into a bad person deal with them. On the other hand, if you arrived when you were 2, then then the country that made you a bad person is the one you're already in and that country has no right to shove it's bad-person creation on someone else, just because they were born there.

But that's remotely not what the law says in any state, where a DUI 1 is in most cases not even a felony offense.

Wow, that's terrifying. And presumably the reason why Canadian border services feels the need to clarify that yes, a DUI conviction is a real live criminal conviction that makes you a real live criminal that maybe we don't want to let in cause why would we let in criminals?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:26 PM on March 3, 2017 [5 favorites]

And digging up a 10 year old conviction means it wasn't some standard review of the weeks arrests, where ICE agents followed up at the jail, they went trolling through the cold court database comparing years worth of convictions to citizenship records, then tracked the man down and nabbed him in front of his kids at school.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:27 PM on March 3, 2017 [33 favorites]

The lieutenant governor of my state has two DUI convictions. She's set to become the governor as soon as the current governor is confirmed as ambassador to China. She's a recovering alcoholic, and I think that most people see it as an unfortunate symptom of a problem that she has admirably overcome, not as a character defect that stains her forever. And if it's not enough to prevent you from being governor of a state, I don't think it should get you deported.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:27 PM on March 3, 2017 [71 favorites]

Rep. Tom Garett (R) arguing that it's appropriate to restrict attendance to his Town Halls because "America isn't a Democracy."

"It's Not A Democracy, It's A Republic" will probably be spelled in wrought iron above the gates of the camps.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:28 PM on March 3, 2017 [68 favorites]

The U.S. Government’s Privacy Watchdog Is Basically Dead, Emails Reveal

There’s a little-known federal agency whose job is to ensure U.S. spy agencies protect privacy and other civil liberties even as they work to defeat terrorists and criminals, and to blow the whistle when that doesn’t happen. But the agency, known as the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board, is down to just a single voting member — which means it has been stripped of nearly all its powers, according to emails obtained by The Intercept.

...

But with just one part-time board member left, after another member’s term ended last week, the agency has very few formal powers to police the so-called “deep state” until President Trump nominates a new board, the emails reveal. Without the statutory quorum of three members, PCLOB “may not initiate new advice or oversight projects” or offer advice to the intelligence community, according to a list drawn up by Jen Burita, PCLOB’s public affairs and legislative officer, and shared by email with several congressional staffers who had raised questions about the impact of the attrition among board members.

In addition, the agency cannot submit to Congress either its semi-annual reports, which detail the conclusions of its investigations, or its plans for declassifying information it has uncovered. The board can’t hold public meetings, which have offered the chance for public input in the past, or give formal recommendations to the intelligence community.

...

Nominations to bring PCLOB to quorum seem unlikely to happen any time soon, if they happen at all. One hurdle is that Trump has to work with Democrats to name at least two of the board’s members, and lack of bipartisan cooperation stymied PCLOB appointments under Presidents Bush and Obama. The bigger issue is that Trump may not be interested in naming any members at all. On Fox News on Tuesday, the president claimed he hasn’t filled upwards of 600 administration slots because “they’re unnecessary to have.”

posted by homunculus at 6:29 PM on March 3, 2017 [11 favorites]

But these aren't normal times. They took him at a school, 20 years later, and I just don't believe that la migra has suddenly discovered a new hatred of drunk driving.

I'm bracing myself for a story of a child of a brown permanent resident getting deported for the possession of an ecstasy pill.

The only exception for drug possession for an LPR is an ounce of weed. Anything else and CBP will fuck you sideways.
posted by Talez at 6:29 PM on March 3, 2017 [1 favorite]

The DUI thing is a big talking point on right wing radio and alt right forums. The idea is if someone is willing to break US law to sneak into the US, they have no respect for laws and can't wait to break some more, so they drive around in uninsured cars and get drunk and kill white children. It does not hold up to statistical scrutiny, and is a basic demonizing tactic. It is bullshit.
posted by vrakatar at 6:32 PM on March 3, 2017 [28 favorites]

Carter Page has a peculiar nervous energy and affect in these interviews. That, with the letter about the Clinton campaign, makes me think that he's got no information useful to anyone. He just seems so desperate to talk to anyone, with very little to say.

Since he is out of favor with the bosses, maybe he's digging for a book deal?
posted by monopas at 6:32 PM on March 3, 2017 [1 favorite]

OK, if the two most profitable companies in the USA, no, wait, THE WORLD wait for it, waaait for it Apple and Microsoft, are backing Garvin Grimm with the full depth of their coffers, and the GOP is emphatically not, the Republicans are no longer business-friendly or pro-growth.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:33 PM on March 3, 2017 [13 favorites]

I've been in a car with someone who was denied entry into Canada for a DUI.

You can be denied entry to Canada for any reason at all. The Canadian Border guards have complete discretion on this. I know border guards who have denied people for being drunks, jerks or just because they felt like denying someone on a boring day.
posted by srboisvert at 6:33 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

Jesus, we have got to get this guy out of office, asap. It hasn't even been two months and the damage he's done to real people and real lives, not to mention our democracy, I can't even really think about it very deeply. It's just so awful.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:34 PM on March 3, 2017 [21 favorites]

The only exception for drug possession for an LPR is an ounce of weed. Anything else and CBP will fuck you sideways.

What are the relevant regulations/statutes about this?
posted by Coventry at 6:35 PM on March 3, 2017

then tracked the man down and nabbed him in front of his kids at school.

I am viewing that as an attempt to intimidate noncitizens from using public school for their citizen children. It may be cynical, but my cynicism in the last month has a good track record of being right.
posted by corb at 6:38 PM on March 3, 2017 [38 favorites]

Carter Page is an international man of mystery. With the mystery being what the fuck is wrong with that guy?
posted by diogenes at 6:38 PM on March 3, 2017 [27 favorites]

It's California. Can't Brown pardon the DUI?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:39 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

What are the relevant regulations/statutes about this?

10 USC 601.fuck.you.hippie.I.am.the.law
posted by Etrigan at 6:41 PM on March 3, 2017 [9 favorites]

That photograph of Hillary Clinton having to look at the headlines describing the incompetent fuckers currently wrecking the government AND using private emails to do so just makes me want to drink straight bourbon for days and days and days.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
posted by lydhre at 6:41 PM on March 3, 2017 [58 favorites]

Canada will let you in with a DUI on your record. If it's been 10 years, it's fairly straightforward. Less than 10 years is often possible with a lot of paperwork and hundreds of dollars of fees and various hoops to jump through. Single offense DUIs are something they take seriously, more seriously than the US does from an immigration perspective, but it's not some kind of lifetime ban.

And in the immigration context, an alcohol DUI without other charges is not grounds for deportation for legal immigrants. ICE is also supposed to have a "sensitive locations policy," which is supposedly still in effect even with the latest executive orders, that says they aren't supposed to do this stuff at schools (as it would discourage children from attending school). Somebody needs to figure out why that policy wasn't followed here.

Again, we have ample evidence that immigrants commit fewer crimes than native-born Americans. This isn't about making the streets safer; it's about rounding up people and destroying families.
posted by zachlipton at 6:41 PM on March 3, 2017 [16 favorites]

Jesus, we have got to get this guy out of office, asap.

I know some people truly believe he will be impeached but I just don't see any way he leaves office before the 2020 election.

Well, ok, I see one way. He somehow pisses off Russia to the point that they release audio recordings of Trump's campaign conspiring with Russian officials to get the Ukraine thing out of the GOP platform in exchange for the release of the DNC emails. But that seems unlikely. Trump hasn't shown any inclination to stop polishing Putin's... boots.
posted by Justinian at 6:42 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's California. Can't Brown pardon the DUI?

Not sure that would make any difference. He's still undocumented and in federal custody. A governor's pardon can't fix that.
posted by zachlipton at 6:43 PM on March 3, 2017

The DUI thing is a big talking point on right wing radio and alt right forums.

Of course it is.

I am viewing that as an attempt to intimidate noncitizens from using public school for their citizen children. It may be cynical, but my cynicism in the last month has a good track record of being right.

No, that's got to be right. They're going to drive undocumented people out of all facets of legal society. It's certainly an intentional reversal of the prevailing sentiment for the last 8 years that places likes schools, hospitals, churches, should be considered safe, just for the simple functioning of society. You should want all people to be able to goto the hospital without fear, to protect citizens as well as non-citizens. You want non-citizens to feel they're able to cooperate with the police without risking deportation, you don't want an undocumented person with a 10 year old DUI to withhold information from the police that would solve a murder or bust a heroin ring.

Unless you're a Republican, that is.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:44 PM on March 3, 2017 [42 favorites]

NOAA does tornado tracking and warning as well.

We just had the earliest tornadoes in northern Illinois ever this week. 2 killed.
posted by srboisvert at 6:44 PM on March 3, 2017 [16 favorites]

ICE is also supposed to have a "sensitive locations policy," which is supposedly still in effect even with the latest executive orders, that says they aren't supposed to do this stuff at schools (as it would discourage children from attending school). Somebody needs to figure out why that policy wasn't followed here.

Having a policy on the books means nothing now. And they're pushing to do all these deportations without hearings too.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:45 PM on March 3, 2017 [5 favorites]

Have you people not watched Border Security on Netflix? There's Australia, Canada, and US. It is amazing. And you learn so much. Like that people travel with lots of meat in their suitcases. Raw meat.

And the US has poorer quality xray machines that are sometimes confused by carbon paper. Canada and Aus have much nicer equipment.
posted by monopas at 6:45 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

Oh yes, and Canada really doesn't let in people with criminal records.
posted by monopas at 6:47 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

What are the relevant regulations/statutes about this?

Relevant statute

(B) Controlled substances.-

(i) Conviction.-Any alien who at any time after admission has been convicted of a violation of (or a conspiracy or attempt to violate) any law or regulation of a State, the United States, or a foreign country relating to a controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)), other than a single offense involving possession for one's own use of 30 grams or less of marijuana, is deportable.

posted by Talez at 6:47 PM on March 3, 2017 [5 favorites]

And digging up a 10 year old conviction means it wasn't some standard review of the weeks arrests, where ICE agents followed up at the jail,

Good point. And yeah, in case it was unclear, I wasn't implying that immigrants (documented or non) are any more likely to drive drunk or commit any other kind of crime. And murder doesn't prevent you from being governor does it? I mean the whole reason there are these million comment threads is that people are allowed to elect whomever they want, even in Canada. Rob Ford was a convicted drunk driver and a not-convicted criminal of many other varieties.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:48 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

I once had a whole bunch of Serbian sausage thrown to the bin in front of me at Dulles.

It was heart breaking but I guess that's what I get for sausage smuggling.
posted by Tarumba at 6:48 PM on March 3, 2017 [8 favorites]

"Like that people travel with lots of meat in their suitcases. Raw meat."

Why, tho?
posted by Selena777 at 6:49 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

What are the relevant regulations/statutes about this?

"Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing."

"What the hell are you talking about?" Yossarian shouted at her in bewildered, furious protest. "How did you know it was Catch-22? Who the hell told you it was Catch-22?"

"The soldiers with the hard white hats and clubs. The girls were crying. 'Did we do anything wrong?' they said. The men said no and pushed them away out the door with the ends of their clubs. 'Then why are you chasing us out?' the girls said. 'Catch 22,' the men said. All they kept saying was 'Catch-22, Catch-22. What does it mean, Catch 22? What is Catch-22?"

"Didn't they show it to you?" Yossarian demanded, stamping about in anger and distress. "Didn't you even make them read it?"

"They don't have to show us Catch-22," the old woman answered. "The law says they don't have to."

"What law says they don't have to?"

"Catch-22."

(really need to make that a macro before I'm disappeared)
posted by delfin at 6:49 PM on March 3, 2017 [20 favorites]

"Like that people travel with lots of meat in their suitcases. Raw meat."

Why, tho?

I have no idea. But it helped me to understand how we elected Trump. Nobody reads the questions, or believe that the rules apply to them. Even with their lives or money on the line.
posted by monopas at 6:52 PM on March 3, 2017 [6 favorites]

This article has the full Carter Page CNN interview posted in the three videos at the bottom.

I am imagining Putin watching this and trying to figure out what to make of this idiot.
posted by zachlipton at 6:53 PM on March 3, 2017 [5 favorites]

"Like that people travel with lots of meat in their suitcases. Raw meat."

Why, tho?

Agricultural controls are serious business. Preventing cross contamination, exotic disease that local animals and/or crops have no immunity to, foreign invasive species of all manner from insects and rodents to molds or bacteria. As to why people would want to bring home meat...yea, Serbian sausage. Or any kind of exotic foodstuff you can't get at home.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:53 PM on March 3, 2017 [4 favorites]

I have found myself, periodically through these past weeks, turning a corner in my mind and coming upon a moment when my brain encounters a kind of caesura - a pause in rational thought. In that kenssho-esque moment unfolds an unmediated awareness of the depth of the stark wrongness of the Trump administration.

It seems, after a moment of such a pause, that if I allowed myself to dwell in the moment overlong, I would go mad. It is not a sustainable state of mind.

And then the self-preservation instinct kicks in and drags me back to sanity, suppressing the horrible insight for a while so I can get on with work.

I had not before thought of it in terms of a "cold civil war", but that explains perfectly why I'm feeling a nontrivial sense of dread and post-traumatic stress at all of this. We've been at war with the racist, fascist element of our country - of whom some of our own neighbors and family are a part - for some time.

I believe we will win the war, eventually. But last November they won a major battle. And, having taken the high ground, are now setting up their artillery...
posted by darkstar at 6:55 PM on March 3, 2017 [41 favorites]

"Like that people travel with lots of meat in their suitcases. Raw meat."

Why, tho?

Foreign meats you can't buy in USG territory.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 6:55 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

Wow, that Cooper interview is another freaky foray into the weird, weird world of Carter "I'm totally with the band" Page, who apparently followed Trump's MAGA tour in a VW Microbus. Definitely seems like a use~~ful~~less idiot with a side order of bananapants. I kind of buy the story that Trump did just randomly read his name off the list of not-really foreign policy advisors assembled by his campaign solely because he thought the "Ph.D." would make reporters think there was a brain trust. Page probably made it onto the list because he sent a mess of unsolicited "policy papers" (yes, originally written in crayon) that were pro-Russia and Putin-sucking enough to fit with the program. Too bad he's not actually in the Trump circle, though since he, Gorka, and Miller would make quite a stellar team of disturbed wingnuts.

Page is smart enough to be evasive as hell, but too fucking dumb (or attention-seeking) to shut his yap. God, DC must be just full of completely useless, aimless policy-paper-writing nitwits like this who somehow manage to collect speaker fees and panel gigs despite knowing not one goddamn thing. Nice work if you can get it.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:55 PM on March 3, 2017 [9 favorites]

Yeah, the meat thing is totally weird. It's not always something that we don't normally eat in the States, AUS (etc) but it often is. It often seems to be a delicacy gift for a family member.
posted by futz at 6:56 PM on March 3, 2017

I think we all need something nice to think about so here it is:

Married Lesbian Baptist Co-Pastors Say All are "Beloved"

I am as full of despair and fear as anyone, but on the other hand--this stuff is happening, it's happening in a lot of places, and there are a lot of people who don't want to turn the clock back, not just those of us huddled here on the Blue.

Patriarchy is fighting back, hard, and it's big and scary and powerful, but we really are many.
posted by emjaybee at 6:57 PM on March 3, 2017 [28 favorites]

My best attempted meat smuggling story involves an Alitalia flight to Boston, a flight attendant noticing the divine smell of a WHOLE PROSCIUTTO LEG that some American tourist was trying to sneak home in a bag, and her sorry-not-sorry justification to just carve it up right then and there and serve it to all the passengers on the plane because customs was just going to throw it away anyway.

It was very very good.
posted by lydhre at 6:57 PM on March 3, 2017 [91 favorites]

Only reason it was at Trump Tower was because Trump was there, otherwise they could have met in Jersey.

They might just be morons.

Like it might not have occurred to them that a clandestine meeting could be held literally anywhere
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:59 PM on March 3, 2017 [17 favorites]

"It's Not A Democracy, It's A Republic"

Every asshole who propagates this bullshit would be the same amount of inaccurate if they chose to say "It's not a republic, it's a democracy," but they never seem to make THAT mistake.
posted by Rykey at 7:00 PM on March 3, 2017 [16 favorites]

Just for curiosity's sake, I re-checked some more of the forensic stuff on the Fancy Bear hacks of early 2016, and there's a consensus that prep work for the successful DNC hack and the hack attempts at the Clinton campaign servers and other Dem-related groups started around mid-March 2016 and the breach of the DNC server was in place by April. (Cozy Bear had already gained access to the DNC server in 2015.)

That would be right around the time Manafort was hired, and the newly-announced foreign policy team met in the under-construction DC hotel.
posted by holgate at 7:04 PM on March 3, 2017 [15 favorites]

I've been part of a meat smuggling trip. What: a whole salami. Why; Not available in country it was being smuggled into. Grandfather living in said country loved salami.

The scene: I'm 4 or 5 years old. My parents have a salami in the checked baggage. Going through US customs in the Toronto airport on the way to third country, the customs guy asks my parents if we're carrying any food. My parents say no. At which I point I pipe up and yell "Yes we are! Yes we are!" and the nice customs man crouches down to ask me about the food we're carrying. I pop a ziploc bag out of the carry on and announce "My cheez-wiz sandwich for lunch!" I didn't know about the salami.

I also admit that a week ago I was googling whether it is possible to travel from Argentina to Canada with raw argentine beef. Googling inconclusive.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:05 PM on March 3, 2017 [27 favorites]

Rep. Tom Garrett (R) arguing that it's appropriate to restrict attendance to his Town Halls because 'America isn't a Democracy.'

We should really have the right to complain to the government, maybe even ask them to help. We could put it in the Fucking Constitution.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:05 PM on March 3, 2017 [31 favorites]

Speaking on CNBC Friday morning, Ross said he would seek the input of business groups including the National Association of Manufacturers, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the National Federation of Small Businesses and others.

Feds turn to Foxes for Henhouse Redesign.

Many of these groups are pay to play shells that are openly partisan rather than represent their putative constituencies. U.S. Chamber of Commerce is not for commerce per se but rather is for coal, cigarettes and banking.
posted by srboisvert at 7:06 PM on March 3, 2017 [6 favorites]

The problem with the DUI thing is differential treatment. The problem with all of the VOICE crap is differential treatment. (Where's the list of unprosecuted rape complaints? Whither VAWA?) And in these cases, it's approaching a disguised form of collective punishment. Because this is the actual fascist playbook. That's not hyperbole anymore. If you're not sure what they're up to, consult fascism.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:09 PM on March 3, 2017 [21 favorites]

UNDOCUMENTED DAD TAKEN BY ICE WHILE DROPPING KIDS OFF AT SCHOOL

Well, this article answers my question about that video -- what are LA police doing arresting immigrants?

"LA officials urge ICE agents to stop identifying themselves as 'police'." It seems ICE agents are wearing vests identifying themselves as "POLICE" instead of "ICE".

From the article:

"In a letter, Mayor Eric Garcetti, city attorney Mike Feuer and Los Angeles City Council President Herb Wesson urged ICE agents to no longer refer to themselves as "police" while carrying out their duties in L.A.

The letter details decades of work by the city to gain the trust of all citizens in an effort to make communities safer. That trust, the letter says, encourages witnesses and victims of crime to come forward regardless of immigration status.

As a result, when ICE agents targeting immigrants identify themselves only as 'police' officers, they undermine decades of this work, eroding public safety in our city, the letter states."

ICE is making communities less safe.
posted by JackFlash at 7:12 PM on March 3, 2017 [56 favorites]

Four Mosques Have Burned In Seven Weeks — Leaving Many Muslims and Advocates Stunned

Three of the four fire have been ruled arsons, with one still under investigation.
posted by zachlipton at 7:12 PM on March 3, 2017 [32 favorites]

PLEASE LAPD PLEASE ARREST ICE FOR IMPERSONATING OFFICERS
please
just one
they won't but O Please
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:13 PM on March 3, 2017 [55 favorites]

God, DC must be just full of completely useless, aimless policy-paper-writing nitwits like this who somehow manage to collect speaker fees and panel gigs despite knowing not one goddamn thing. Nice work if you can get it.

I heard they shunt the overflow off to The Daily Beast's foreign affairs desk.
posted by indubitable at 7:15 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

So, America, the rest of the world has been talking and we've agreed to pay for the wall. Well, it's more of a dome. Just a dome really. Just gonna dome off the whole shebang for a while, let you folk figure it out.

It's a fair cop. We're terribly sorry about all of this.
posted by petebest at 7:16 PM on March 3, 2017 [12 favorites]

So I went googling briefly for "cold civil war" just to see what the non-metafilter usage of the concept is currently, and it seems to mostly have been glommed on to by rightists and Trumpists. Is that weird? I found that weird.

There was one pretty amusing "My Dearest Annabelle..." send up of the Civil War documentary series though.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:22 PM on March 3, 2017 [5 favorites]

Carter Page is an international man of mystery. With the mystery being what the fuck is wrong with that guy?

I have a few theories but first and foremost he is a fucking shitgibbon.
posted by futz at 7:23 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

Just meet elsewhere. [...] The only logical reason to sneak Kislyak into Trump Tower & risk exposure was because Trump attended meeting with the Russian ambassador.

Wonder how the USSS feels watching Trump meet with a Russian spymaster.
posted by xyzzy at 7:24 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

So Jeff Beauregard Sessions lied under oath to be the country's top justice official?

His momma must be so proud.
posted by petebest at 7:25 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

ICE is making communities less safe.

In Austin, the APD has been out in force since we got targeted by ICE for special attention a couple of weeks ago, such that now on my twenty minute drive to take my partner to work it's not uncommon to see four cops lurking on speed traps. We're hoping that they're basically trying to spook people into behaving so ICE has no reason to stop anyone, since the sheriff is taking such a pointed stand against ICE, but the combination of ICE and rumors and seeing cops around every corner is, um. Terrifying.
posted by sciatrix at 7:27 PM on March 3, 2017 [13 favorites]

Page is like if Kato Kaelin had a bunch of PowerPoint slides and a grudge against Hillary.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:28 PM on March 3, 2017 [16 favorites]

I had not before thought of it in terms of a "cold civil war", but that explains perfectly why I'm feeling a nontrivial sense of dread and post-traumatic stress at all of this. We've been at war with the racist, fascist element of our country - of whom some of our own neighbors and family are a part - for some time.

I believe we will win the war, eventually. But last November they won a major battle. And, having taken the high ground, are now setting up their artillery...

Oh, I smell what you're cooking but I do not share your optimism. Not entirely. (And it's kinda scary that I'm describing "a nontrivial sense of dread and post-traumatic stress" as OPTIMISM. But right now it is.) Neither side is ever going to win this war. The battleground will ebb and flow in cycles but it will never go away.

America is simply too tribal. We have plenty on the left who will never get tired of fighting for truth, for justice, for the same basic fucking rights they've been fighting to retain for eternity. But we also have far, far, far too many who have it baked into their DNA that they are the sole determiners of right and wrong, they are superior, they are the highest caste, and they are justified in imposing their will because of the color of their skin, or the type of genitals they have, or the place in which they live, or the place where they were born, or what their religious book of choice says. And three decades of relentless deregulation, media consolidation and airwave bombardment has ensured that their mantra will never go unheard.

And it is a mistake to paint the American conflict as purely left vs. right. It is left vs. right vying for control of the vast ambivalence in the middle, the millions and millions who don't give a shit unless they see something on TV that personally affects them. And in this age of rampant internet disinformation, it is horribly easy to distort the truth in ways to which too many of them pay witness. The old saying of "a lie goes 'round the world before the truth has its boots on" is many orders of magnitude truer today.

America will never outgrow racism, sexism, FYGM-ism. It is a tribute to those who fight against those that they never completely win the day here. But every generation of Americans has that sizable percentage who aren't born wrong but are taught wrong.
posted by delfin at 7:28 PM on March 3, 2017 [15 favorites]

I like how he's comforted with reports that the Trump campaign told him to GTFO (possibly with a cease and desist letter) and he just sits there with that shit-eating grin and refuses to acknowledge or deny it happened.

The best though is his "rallies" vs "meetings" confusion, in which he spins the times he described his foreign policy advice meetings as just going to Trump rallies, because he claims the words are the same in Russian, a language he can kind of sort of understand.
posted by zachlipton at 7:30 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

Another good cover from Der Spiegel.
posted by triggerfinger at 7:34 PM on March 3, 2017 [15 favorites]

So the proposed 25% cut in the EPA budget is really a 40% cut because 42% of the EPA budget is grants to the states and Pruitt promised to protect them. There's a full discussion here, which lays it out quite well.

We're looking at the complete gutting of Clean Air, Clean Water, Hazardous Waste Management, and Hazardous Waste Cleanup programs. Get ready for more Flints and more Love Canals.
posted by suelac at 7:35 PM on March 3, 2017 [20 favorites]

Another good cover from Der Spiegel.

"DER DOPPELREGENT"

There's a certain poetry to the German language that suits the era well, I think.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:38 PM on March 3, 2017 [12 favorites]

ICE is making communities less safe.

California should start arresting ICE officers for impersonating police.

It's already time to escalate.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:38 PM on March 3, 2017 [13 favorites]

Also, because apparently it wasn't enough that our very own bathroom bill, SB6, is "hearing testimony" tomorrow which I fully expect the state legislature to ignore and whine about when the crowds cheer on speakers....

the Texas Supreme Court is now hearing a challenge to the interpretation of Obergefell that says that yes, municipal governments do have to extend spousal benefits to same-sex married couples as a result of fervent and repetitive lobbying from the governor, lieutenant governor, and attorney general. As a state employee who was previously outright banned from putting my partner on my work health insurance by Texas state legislation, I am a little concerned about this one.

I swear to god that this week is shaping up to be "Queers Scream At Texas" week. I'm working on a fabric banner which will say "WHO'S FOR FAMILY VALUES NOW?" with little stick figures of a dude labeled "GOP" peering over a restroom wall to stare at someone and other little stick figures trying to rip apart a same-gender stick figure family as children watch. (Considering seeing if I can make those stick figures rainbow. We'll see what felt I have.) Got my pattern all put together, and I figure this way it'll be usable for both days because fuck this noise. I've asked Equality Texas if they want me and my spouse to step forward, too, or maybe if they want me to organize an extremely angry protest for that on top of the SB6 one.
posted by sciatrix at 7:39 PM on March 3, 2017 [31 favorites]

I'm just waiting for someone to release the tapes of everybody's meetings with Kislyak.

Because you know they exist.

Toby Esterhase: "Burning, George, that's always a hazard, you know what I mean? Some guys get heroic and want to die for their countries suddenly. Other guys roll over and lie still the moment you put the arm on them. Burning, that touches the stubbornness in certain people. Know what I mean?"
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 7:42 PM on March 3, 2017 [8 favorites]

and he just sits there with that shit-eating grin and refuses to acknowledge or deny it happened.

If I were a conspiracy wacko I'd speculate that Carter Page was going on TV b/c he has been dropped like a hot potato and is signaling to the trump klan or the russians that he wants contact/money/validation or he won't shut up. He really thinks he's being persecuted by the Clintons and he hasn't said it yet but perhaps he feels abandoned/scapegoated by trump/russia as well and this is his attempt to get them to contact him. Polonium eyedrops are probably in his future.

/conspiracy
posted by futz at 7:46 PM on March 3, 2017 [6 favorites]

Carter Page is an international man of mystery. With the mystery being what the fuck is wrong with that guy?

Marine Intelligence asset, ties to pentagon, goes to Russia, says crazy shit, returns to US and praises foreign dictator hostile to the U.S., tangled up in crazy POTUS activities . . .

Sounds so familiar . . .

"you are a madman! When you stole that cow? and your friend tried to make it with the cow?! I wanna party with you, cowboy. If the two of us get together, forget it!"
posted by petebest at 7:49 PM on March 3, 2017 [4 favorites]

He's not worth the trouble of Polonium.
posted by monopas at 7:49 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

More on the timeline: the Steele dossier's "Source E, an ethnic Russian close associate" (who may be Felix Sater) explicitly called the DNC hack a quid pro quo in exchange for softening the position on Ukraine and upping the ante on the Baltic states' financial contribution to NATO. Per the dossier, this operation was managed by Manafort using Page and others as intermediaries.

If there was a deal cooked up to deliver on the hacks in exchange for a softer Russia policy, then it was cooked up in March, set in place by the time the foreign policy advisor list was announced, and was already planning to soften the Ukraine policy before the hacks began.
posted by holgate at 7:55 PM on March 3, 2017 [22 favorites]

This cheered me up for no good reason. As part of my own self-care regime, I've been watching the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics Spring Colloquium Series on Youtube, and the one for the 2nd March was on Small Interstellar Molecules And What They Tell Us. (tl;dw - a whole lot about the dynamic structures of deep space.)

Right at the end of what was a very technical discussion about the nearly 200 types of molecule we've found floating between the stars, how we found them, and the richness of what they reveal, the Q&A had an audience member ask a question about isotopic ratios (the wag!) which the presenter had referenced. But - O. M. G. - the presenter had throwin in a study which he wasn't fully conversant with, and he couldn't answer the question. Happens all the time, it's part of the sport of these things, and the presenter dealt with it with good grace and good humour.

So why am I telling you this? Because the MC then asked for 'any non-embarrassing questions... like Sean Spicer', and the place erupts in laughter and jokes exchanged about 'alt-facts' and 'It's just something I deeply believe'. These things are normally as apolitical as a seven year old's birthday party: to find open ridicule of Spicer in such a place is as unexpected as the discovery of ArH+.

If you want to read too much into this, it's that there are a lot of grown-ups out there and they're not buying it. But mostly - if the jokes are getting into astrophysics colloquia on Youtube, they're everywhere.

(ArH+ in the ISM. Golly.)
posted by Devonian at 7:56 PM on March 3, 2017 [35 favorites]

I have no idea who and what Carter Page is. Maybe anagrams will help. Here is the story of Carter Page, told in anagrams for "Carter Page":

Great Recap:

Great Caper!
Act Rear Peg,
Greet A Crap,
Get Rare Cap.
Gape Crater.
Regret A Cap.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:00 PM on March 3, 2017 [17 favorites]

Polonium can't be that cheap. He seemed to be complaining a little during the interview that they made him fly coach to Moscow last year and didn't pay him anything for his time. I don't think they consider him worth it.

I also want to know more about his purported role as a graduation speaker. Because he's clearly an idiot. Who doesn't actually speak much Russian. And who claims he spoke for free. I mean, if he's telling the truth there, the price was right, but this is the guy they asked to speak at a graduation?

In any case, many of my questions come back to this March foreign policy meeting at the unfinished Trump hotel. As holgate just noted, this was when all these plans were going down. Josh Marshall ran down some of the timeline of this meeting today. The meeting also took place during the height of Trump's NATO-bashing. A list of attendees for that meeting is a basic requirement at this point.
posted by zachlipton at 8:02 PM on March 3, 2017 [4 favorites]

So I went googling briefly for "cold civil war" just to see what the non-metafilter usage of the concept is currently, and it seems to mostly have been glommed on to by rightists and Trumpists. Is that weird? I found that weird.

It is not weird at all. Consider this quote from the above comments:

I've been saying it for months, they're governing not for the US as a whole, but as a punitive occupying force extracting reparations from defeated Democrats. ... He's truly "not our president", and he's making it very clear he doesn't even intend to try to be.

This is more or less how the Reds felt under the rule of Obama and at the prospect of the rule of Hillary.

Two countries squabbling over one government and territory. Untenable.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:05 PM on March 3, 2017 [6 favorites]

I'm working on a fabric banner which will say "WHO'S FOR FAMILY VALUES NOW?" with little stick figures of a dude labeled "GOP" peering over a restroom wall to stare at someone and other little stick figures trying to rip apart a same-gender stick figure family as children watch.

Pics plz?

I know some people truly believe he will be impeached but I just don't see any way he leaves office before the 2020 election.

I'm deathly afraid he'll overturn the Constitution so he can be President-For-Life.

I'm at the point where I don't even know what to call my Congresspeople about anymore. There are so many options I am paralyzed by indecision!

You could just have a Wheel of Shit and spin it and write about a new thing every day.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:07 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

This is more or less how the Reds felt under the rule of Obama and at the prospect of the rule of Hillary.

I formally submit my formal resignation from giving a wet fart about how Republicans feel despite every single solitary scrap of evidence to the contrary.
posted by Etrigan at 8:09 PM on March 3, 2017 [34 favorites]

If I were a conspiracy wacko I'd speculate that Carter Page was going on TV b/c he has been dropped like a hot potato and is signaling to the trump klan or the russians that he wants contact/money/validation or he won't shut up. He really thinks he's being persecuted by the Clintons and he hasn't said it yet but perhaps he feels abandoned/scapegoated by trump/russia as well and this is his attempt to get them to contact him. Polonium eyedrops are probably in his future.

The other conspiracy thinkin' I've seen about this is that he knows he's outlived his uselessness and is trying real hard to make himself publicly conspicuous, to discourage the guys with polonium.

But he's probably just an attention seeking idiot and everyone who really really wants to contact him and tell him to STFU right now knows he's under a ridiculous amount of surveillance and all of Five Eyes would have transcripts within the hour.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:12 PM on March 3, 2017 [8 favorites]

Two countries squabbling over one government and territory. Untenable.

I was hoping that the Big Sort would solve this without a Partition of India happening, but the music might be about to stop playing soon.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:13 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

Here's a collection of comments on NATO, that date from... March 21.

Let's run with the "last person he spoke to" rule here.

There's a reprise of this in July, specifically in relation to the Baltics, around the time that news broke of the Russian connection to the DNC hack, followed a week later by "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing."
posted by holgate at 8:14 PM on March 3, 2017 [1 favorite]

This is more or less how the Reds felt under the rule of Obama and at the prospect of the rule of Hillary.

The difference here is Obama wasn't actually coming for their guns, or instituting death panels, or conducting house to house raids in Appalachia and the Rust Belt.

Republicans are.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:19 PM on March 3, 2017 [86 favorites]

German parade floats.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:23 PM on March 3, 2017 [4 favorites]

CJR - Study: Breitbart-led right-wing media ecosystem altered broader media agenda

Our own study of over 1.25 million stories published online between April 1, 2015 and Election Day shows that a right-wing media network anchored around Breitbart developed as a distinct and insulated media system, using social media as a backbone to transmit a hyper-partisan perspective to the world. This pro-Trump media sphere appears to have not only successfully set the agenda for the conservative media sphere, but also strongly influenced the broader media agenda, in particular coverage of Hillary Clinton.

...Our analysis challenges a simple narrative that the internet as a technology is what fragments public discourse and polarizes opinions, by allowing us to inhabit filter bubbles or just read “the daily me.” If technology were the most important driver towards a “post-truth” world, we would expect to see symmetric patterns on the left and the right. Instead, different internal political dynamics in the right and the left led to different patterns in the reception and use of the technology by each wing. While Facebook and Twitter certainly enabled right-wing media to circumvent the gatekeeping power of traditional media, the pattern was not symmetric.
posted by triggerfinger at 8:25 PM on March 3, 2017 [39 favorites]

This is more or less how the Reds felt under the rule of Obama and at the prospect of the rule of Hillary.

Republicans hated Obama because they're racist. We hate Trump because he's racist. There is no equivalency. One is a sane, intelligent, compassionate man. The other is a demented, idiotic, narcissistic toddler. A Republican who claims equivalency just reveals their idiocy, ignorance or blind ideology.
posted by chris24 at 8:33 PM on March 3, 2017 [128 favorites]

I want somebody to start an "engagement" called Immigrant Victims Of Trumpist Exclusionism. We might start calling it IVOTE. A place for American citizens of immigrant background to detail how this sad situation has negatively impacted them. I like to imagine that it would generate a great volume of moving material and the mere mention of it would terrify elected republicans, and everything would go back to (a nicer) normal!
posted by Clathrate Bomber at 8:39 PM on March 3, 2017 [6 favorites]

I like to imagine that it would generate a great volume of moving material and the mere mention of it would terrify elected republicans, and everything would go back to (a nicer) normal!

I would also like to imagine that. That would be a very nice thing to imagine.
posted by contraption at 8:42 PM on March 3, 2017 [6 favorites]

I cannot imagine imagining that.
posted by contraption at 8:43 PM on March 3, 2017 [1 favorite]

Feel free, the one thing they can never take is your freedom of mind...
posted by Clathrate Bomber at 8:43 PM on March 3, 2017

I'm not going to litigate who started it, but triggerfinger's link points to "why now?" I think it's the way in which the internet simultaneously breaks apart old geographical continuities -- and creates communities of interest around different things -- and creates conflict over ownership of a broader, flatter space. It's not simply a bubble, because bubbles have limits: it's a bubble that lays claim to everything.

There's something about the internet that changes things. The UK has had explicitly partisan national newspapers (and explicitly non-partisan broadcast news) from day one. You could read the S*n or the Mirror and have very different tabloid framings on the world, but there was never a sense that one or the other framing was fundamentally illegitimate. It was more like supporting different teams in a league, and you need the league to exist in order to support your team. That's started to change, especially given how the Brexit vote was a vote about personal identity and the extent of one's personal citizenship.

A different way to put it in the US perspective is that there's been a cold civil war since 1865, with a few big flashpoints. Big countries can mostly get away with not being the same country for a long time as long as the bits of the country you don't like are far away, and there's the option to move from a bit of the country you don't like to one you like more. If you moved states 20 years ago you could live quite happily not giving a fuck about what happened in the place you left behind. Now we get to hear what some dimwit state legislator in Missouri wants to do to his state, in the knowledge that he's getting briefed by DC lobby shops like ALEC, and we're obliged to give a fuck because what happens there extends beyond the domain of local media.
posted by holgate at 8:47 PM on March 3, 2017 [21 favorites]

Look, here's how it went down. Kislyak's all set for a meeting at Trump Tower. Carter meets him at the door, walks him up, talks about how excited the big man is about their partnership and so forth. Then comes the meeting. Trump with his entourage, Kislyak with his entourage, Page there like a turd in a punchbowl.

Fast forward a year, Kislyak calls up Trump, says, "What the fuck is your boy doing on TV?" Trump switches over from Fox News, sees Carter Page dancing like a particularly graceless bear, and says, "My boy? He came in with you."

[probably fake, but who knows any more?]
posted by jackbishop at 8:50 PM on March 3, 2017 [45 favorites]

Trump switches over from Fox News, sees Carter Page dancing like a particularly graceless bear, and says, "My boy? He came in with you."

That's eerily realistic sounding. Take this favorite and go.
posted by petebest at 9:02 PM on March 3, 2017 [8 favorites]

Regarding the DHS data about immigrants developing criminal behavior long after assimilation: I think most would interpret that data to mean that we should focus prevention efforts elsewhere, but I bet Trump and Bannon will see this as even more evidence that we should never let immigrants come to the US in the first place and just drop extreme vetting in favor of total bans or some such nonsense.
posted by p3t3 at 9:11 PM on March 3, 2017 [11 favorites]

Holy shit, p3t3, that's totally what I was thinking when Maddow was acting like, "GOTCHA." No, Rachel. Now they will just say no immigrants are safe because their children will be terrorists.
posted by xyzzy at 9:16 PM on March 3, 2017 [15 favorites]

Now they will just say no immigrants are safe because their children will be terrorists.

Yep, they'll just go around chanting "Tamerlan Tsarnaev" all day long.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:20 PM on March 3, 2017 [5 favorites]

Well, white immigrants will be deemed safe, because their children will be terrorists in the assimilated American tradition like Elliot Rodger.
posted by holgate at 9:21 PM on March 3, 2017 [11 favorites]

It would be a great argument against the immediate travel ban, if rational arguments about that mattered at all and there weren't already a million reason it makes no sense. They'll just file it away under "Muslim Registry, Justifications For" until they've shifted popular opinion far enough to make that palatable.
posted by contraption at 9:22 PM on March 3, 2017 [3 favorites]

Tillerson finds it's hard for a CEO to become a secretary (CNN, March 3, 2017)

Nearly a month into his tenure as secretary of state, Rex Tillerson is winning over foreign governments but alienating many employees at the agency he leads and raising questions about his ability to wield power in Washington.

Meanwhile, Jared Kushner, Trump's son-in-law and a top adviser, is emerging as a shadow secretary of state -- a key interlocutor with world leaders and ambassadors and the keeper of prized diplomatic files like the Middle East peace process. Steve Bannon, Trump's chief political strategist, has also taken on an outsized role in formulating foreign policy.

Tillerson is still lacking much of his senior staff and, according to two sources familiar with the discussions, is in a struggle with the White House over choosing appointments after President Donald Trump vetoed his choice for deputy secretary. Questions about Tillerson's influence have spilled out into the open. Media reports that he has been marginalized abound, including a blistering New York Times editorial titled "Calling Secretary Tillerson." And the perception among the State Department rank-and-file is chilling.

This points out both the problem with trying to run the government like a business, and the problem with pitting upper level managers against each-other. What a debacle. And the NY Times piece from Feb. 24 points out it's worse than that:

Mr. Tillerson has largely been absent from White House meetings with foreign leaders, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, and reportedly was excluded from such major decisions as Mr. Trump’s withdrawal of support for a Palestinian state and his declaration that Iran is now “on notice” for testing ballistic missiles. Mr. Trump’s rejection of Mr. Tillerson’s choice for deputy secretary of state was a public rebuke that undermined the secretary within his department and raised further doubts about his standing with the president.

For now at least, Mr. Tillerson, a former CEO of Exxon Mobil who has no foreign policy or government experience, has been eclipsed by Jim Mattis, the defense secretary; Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster, the national security adviser; and John Kelly, the secretary of homeland security. All three men are generals, and while they are respected experts in their fields, their backgrounds could lead to an overly militaristic approach to foreign policy. That makes the voice of the State Department, with its focus on diplomacy, more important than ever. But too often this voice has seemed muffled.

Ffffuuuu... this fucking administration.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:35 PM on March 3, 2017 [40 favorites]

The latest chaos in the French election really deserves its own FPP from somebody more knowledgeable on the subject than I, but it's not completely irrelevant to this discussion given Russia's interests there and Bannon's grand visions of reshaping Europe in his image. This Twtter thread is not a bad "WTF just happened" summary.
posted by zachlipton at 9:43 PM on March 3, 2017 [9 favorites]

It's weird that Tillerson, the guy you'd think was the most entangled in the Russia stuff, is so clearly on the outside looking in. But then again in his position at Exxon he was probably on more equal footing in his dealings with Russia while the rest of these dopes thought they were players while they were being played, so he's probably not as beholden to Putin as the others.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:44 PM on March 3, 2017 [6 favorites]

It's weird that Tillerson, the guy you'd think was the most entangled in the Russia stuff, is so clearly on the outside looking in.

I don't see it that way at all. Why do you?
posted by futz at 9:47 PM on March 3, 2017

I don't see it that way at all. Why do you?

By "on the outside looking in" I don't mean outside the Russia stuff - I'm sure that's why he's there in the first place, because he can help make Putin a lot of money - but he's not just sidelined by the administration, they seem to be actively hampering his entire job. I'd assumed ever since he was nominated for State that he'd be front and center pushing this new Russo-American alliance garbage and he's just kind of spinning his wheels.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:53 PM on March 3, 2017 [14 favorites]

futz, I agree and will be amazed if the drip drip drip does not catch up with him, too
posted by Caxton1476 at 9:56 PM on March 3, 2017 [1 favorite]

Guys, what you're missing about the Russia thing is that it's actually part of the GOP's replacement for the Clean Power Plan. They're going to hook up a turbine to Reagan and power the entire country by making him spin ceaselessly in his grave.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:00 PM on March 3, 2017 [26 favorites]

For now at least, Mr. Tillerson, a former CEO of Exxon Mobil who has no foreign policy or government experience, has been eclipsed by Jim Mattis, the defense secretary; Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster

Mattis may be fucked.

White House pushing back against Mattis appointment

Ah, jason_steakums, thanks for the clarification. I think there was a WaPo article that said pretty much the same thing. Sorry if my comment came off as knee jerky. That is really not how I intended it. Tillerson is another major corporate connection to Russia and the regulations that he/oil companies have been fighting for 10 years are about to fall in his favor though but I am preaching to the choir here. :)

There is much more to be said about Tillerson but I'll leave it there for now.
posted by futz at 10:10 PM on March 3, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's weird that Tillerson, the guy you'd think was the most entangled in the Russia stuff, is so clearly on the outside looking in.

Or he's the "inside" that the outside is protecting.

"Real bad boys move in silence." --KRS One
posted by rhizome at 10:11 PM on March 3, 2017 [12 favorites]

Re: Tillerson, it's not like Donnie isn't still going all in on his own BFFs 4 evz with Russia thing, so why sideline the guy best suited to making that happen and in the perfect position to do it? I guess my thinking is, there may be no real leverage over Tillerson of the kind there is over Donnie, he angled to make a bunch of money with Russia but he may not be as compromised since it was a mutual Russia/Exxon interests thing, and maybe not favor trading leading to the kind of dumbass bush league Omertà circle of mutually compromised people Trump keeps close. Trump got in this compromised position because the Russians bailed him out and built him back up when he had nothing, Tillerson was in a position where Russia was good business but not the only thing keeping him afloat. I'm absolutely sure there are skeletons in Tillerson's closet there, you don't get that cozy with Putin without any, but I'm wondering if maybe they're not the same skeletons Trump has. I think the Wilbur Ross secretive money laundering side of things is where a ton of the compromising Trump dirt is, Tillerson's Russia interests were pretty transparent and open in comparison - Exxon wanted to do this deal, the sanctions got in the way, Tillerson was very public about not being down with that.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:20 PM on March 3, 2017 [9 favorites]

Tonight 11:14 PM. Trump pleads for cash at closed donor retreat - 'I need you guys to step up and overwhelm them,' the president tells Republican high rollers.

-- By all accounts, Trump was loose before his audience — “I’m going to entertain you,” he told the RNC donors — while mostly staying away from policy and bantering with the crowd for about 40 minutes. He described how important it was to win his home away from home, Florida, and how easy it had been to appear “presidential,” including his speech to a joint session of Congress and on a visit to a Navy aircraft carrier in Virginia.

-- Republicans leaving the dinner said Trump was well within his rights to keep talking about how he beat Hillary Clinton.

“It was something I heard several times,” said Robert Long, owner of Marine Concepts, a Sarasota-based boat building company. “He likes to brag about the election. He did tremendous. It’s something to brag about.”

Everything surrounding trump is a special kind of stupid.
posted by futz at 10:28 PM on March 3, 2017 [68 favorites]

What I don't get is how the ego of people like Tillerson - an ego which I suspect after years of being a CEO is of a size with Trump's - makes them willing to go through this. They could always act like the Koch brothers and sit on the sidelines and still make tons of money from Trump's destruction of regulations and controls on industry, without going through all of this. But here you have story after story about how these people are sidelined, having the traditional power of their office curtailed, or having problems with selecting their own staff, and it must be somewhat humiliating to see that the world is getting a bird's eye view of how little importance you have compared with people like Bannon and Kushner.

But despite the fact that they have tons of money and could walk away and make tons more, they just take it. It's baffling to me.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 10:29 PM on March 3, 2017 [15 favorites]

@Eyebrows McGee
I think Reagan can rest easy. Trump is just continuing the proud Republican tradition of selling out America to its enemies in order to gain a temporary advantage over the Democrats. Nixon sabotaged the Vietnamese peace talks to kneecap LBJ, Reagan worked with Iran to kneecap Carter, and now Trump bends the knee to Russia in order to kneecap Hillary.
posted by Balna Watya at 10:32 PM on March 3, 2017 [28 favorites]

This video from today of Tillerson trying to do a photo-op as Andrea Mitchell peppers him with questions that boil down to "how does it feel to be getting utterly stabbed in the back by your boss?" is pretty great though.
posted by zachlipton at 10:34 PM on March 3, 2017 [14 favorites]

Tillerson wouldn't be the first intelligent businessman to be sold a bill of goods by trusting Trump for even one single second.

If it didn't also come with the death of the State Department and all of American foreign policy I might even laugh at his gullibility in being taken in by a notorious huckster like Trump. But.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:39 PM on March 3, 2017 [5 favorites]

What I don't get is how the ego of people like Tillerson - an ego which I suspect after years of being a CEO is of a size with Trump's - makes them willing to go through this.

Honestly I think it's a big desire to put the feather in his cap of being a capital-S Statesman. I get the sense from him he thought he'd be another Jefferson. With the added twist that he thinks corporations shouldn't bow to state sovereignty even in international relations and he wanted to carve out space for entities like Exxon to get around those pesky sanctions.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:41 PM on March 3, 2017 [8 favorites]

Denver City Attorney: deportation fears impacting criminal cases

She's dropping four domestic violence cases because the victims are afraid of deportation. ICE officers have been seen in the courthouse.

That's four more dangerous people who got away with it because the government is now doing their abusing for them.
posted by zachlipton at 10:46 PM on March 3, 2017 [115 favorites]

They're not just sidelining Tillerson, they're outright sending a message to the entire world that Tillerson does not speak for the President. Foreign leaders are paying attention. They can plainly see that Tillerson has no actual role in the administration and that a promise from him means less than one from the President's son-in-law. There's no way he can do his job under those conditions.

Haley's getting the same treatment, but if she didn't see it coming from miles away that Trump would treat her job like a joke when he thinks the entire concept of the UN is a joke she was being willfully blind.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:48 PM on March 3, 2017 [14 favorites]

With the added twist that he thinks corporations shouldn't bow to state sovereignty even in international relations and he wanted to carve out space for entities like Exxon to get around those pesky sanctions.

Tillerson might be the highbrow version of Trump's mirror. Moron though he could walk into the Trump admin and dictate policy, while Trump/Bannon only wanted him to save face with Putin from an agency they fully intended to destroy from day 1.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:48 PM on March 3, 2017 [4 favorites]

Well good luck, Jared. Yer gonna need plenty.
posted by notyou at 10:49 PM on March 3, 2017

I definitely thought a boardroom killer like Tillerson would walk circles around this bunch. I guess not!
posted by notyou at 10:51 PM on March 3, 2017 [5 favorites]

We definitely need to sort out when and where ICE can show up and demand private info. It needs to be much narrower than it is now. MUCH NARROWER.
posted by notyou at 10:54 PM on March 3, 2017 [5 favorites]

I do wonder how much of it is Trump's tendency to simply go with whatever the last person who spoke to him said. Tillerson is not physically in the building much and doesn't do regular cable news appearances, so Trump doesn't hear from him regularly (though they did have dinner together recently). And Trump has a whole staff surrounding him that's locked in a giant public power struggle, so they sure as heck aren't going to be calling for the presence of an outsider who might try to pass on the views of a career diplomat or expert or anything.

In short, Tillerson might want to get used to hanging out on Fox and Friends.
posted by zachlipton at 11:01 PM on March 3, 2017 [10 favorites]

We definitely need to sort out when and where ICE can show up and demand private info. It needs to be much narrower than it is now. MUCH NARROWER.

Their entire mandate needs to change, or the organization needs to be shuttered and replaced with something different. Sometimes deportations are necessary, sure, but that just requires a group that can facilitate the details of a deportation after existing law enforcement and judicial processes take place, they've seriously exceeded the bounds of what's necessary for far too long.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:03 PM on March 3, 2017 [14 favorites]

Or even more plausible, Tillerson was brought in specifically to oversee the destruction of State. Republicans have want to end soft power at gun point since 2000 and the W administration, Tillerson is the death knell. All he cares about is overseeing the distribution of Russian oil contracts and the wind down of the entire State budget in place of tax cuts for billionaires.

Which is more plausible, that he cares one iota about American standing in the world, or about looting while the looting is prime.

We shouldn't ever give any Republican official even the slightest bit of credit that they're acting in good faith. Tillerson is the rule proving the rule.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:05 PM on March 3, 2017 [19 favorites]

I don't believe that Tillerson had any high notions going in, but I doubt that he imagined the papers would merrily be printing stories about how unimportant he was in the greater power scheme in the first month of his job. I just wonder how long before that ends up overriding his desire to get sanctions lifted, especially given that the Trump administration is such a very obvious garbage fire that is going to consume quite a few careers before it is done.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 11:20 PM on March 3, 2017 [7 favorites]

Haley is doing what she needs to do to boost her "foreign policy" bona fides in preparation for a presidential run of her own in 2024: a telegenic former southern governor, UN Ambassador, minority woman, right? If she has to play Trump's America for a while, so be it.

I don't for a second believe that Tillerson is getting outplayed by Orange Julius and his gang, either. Sure, he may have expected more control over State, but there is absolutely no coincidence that the CEO of EXXON, for chrissake, is in that position amid a maelstrom of Russian collusion. If Tillerson can get the sanctions dropped, it will all be worth it.

Ryan and McConnell are using Trump to get their tax breaks for the wealthy and Obamacare repeal. Bannon is using Trump to destroy the "administration state". Putin is using Trump to destabilize NATO, undermine the US and expand in the Crimea. The military-industrial complex is using Trump to enlarge their defense-budget welfare. White nationalists are using Trump to widen the cultural space in which they spew their bile.

Trump is the useful fool. But I'm afraid the people using him aren't as foolish as we'd like.
posted by darkstar at 11:21 PM on March 3, 2017 [26 favorites]

a Sarasota-based boat building company.

I was joking to my dad the other day about how all the crazies end up in Florida or Alaska. This is a kind of Florida Man administration.

I do think it's possible to integrate a few concepts: that the orange menace is simply incapable of managing an organisation with more than half a dozen key subordinates; that he likes being able to order generals around and that's about it; that Actual President Bannon wants to destroy the federal government by putting in principals who are antipathetic to their core functions.

Clinton and Kerry were chosen because they could amplify the administration with their own political capabilities. Tillerson is just a messenger boy, and State is set to become a kind of courier service for whatever comes out of the shadow foreign policy shop within the White House.

But I'm afraid the people using him aren't as foolish as we'd like.

That's probably true, and yet they have to go through him to get their shit done.

Also, it's Shabbos, so hold on to your whatevers.
posted by holgate at 11:30 PM on March 3, 2017 [5 favorites]

Seriously. Good grief. We're planning a trip to Mexico later this year, and suddenly the complications of bringing my wife's grandfather back and forth across the border, even though he's a citizen now, and has been here in one way or another legally since he was a Bracero in 1949 or whatever has us really reconsidering is bullshit. Fuck you. That man helped build this country. Nobody has a right to question it. He earned his back and forth. Step aside!
posted by notyou at 11:44 PM on March 3, 2017 [54 favorites]

So wait, all that hoopla a few weeks back about Trump's first call with Russia and how the rest of his inner circle sat in because they didn't trust him alone with Putin, was that just to throw people off the trail of their earlier contact with Russia?
posted by mantecol at 12:11 AM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

I just found that we have a program to help rehab prisoners by learning to save the bees!

Carl Bernstein was not complemantary about Page's interview with Anderson Cooper.
posted by monopas at 12:13 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

Regarding Trump/Tillerson. It's Bush/Cheney 2.0 Trump is the clown distracting you from what's going on in the other ring while Tillerson is in the shadows ( in this case ) taking down the safety-net.

The fact that the Republicans can fuck up State is almost gravy to what I fear they're really doing.

( Pay no attention to the man at the State Department... )
posted by mikelieman at 12:34 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Senator John Cornyn (R-TX) on Twitter: Inquiring minds want to know: name one thing congressional Ds are willing to work on, on a bipartisan basis, now. I am at a loss.

3.3K answers, so far. Most appear to be surprsingly civil.

It is a shame that the current definition of bipartisan is, effectively, ~~submit and shut up losers~~ stop being petty and just agree to what we want. For The Greater Good.
posted by monopas at 12:47 AM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

Also, it's Shabbos, so hold on to your whatevers.

Thanks Holgate. It's weird what little details finally let you know the universe is just absurd chaos, and not the logical order most of us assume. Your little throwaway line is what finally broke me.

A proto-fascist, Russian-puppet, anti-Semitic government, with actual nazis in the White House, is substantially paralyzed every week on Shabbos. Absolutely absurd.
posted by honestcoyote at 12:49 AM on March 4, 2017 [21 favorites]

and news just hit that a russian oligarch is the main investor behind palantir. sigh
posted by xcasex at 1:44 AM on March 4, 2017 [32 favorites]

We've learned in these threads that when shipping bees, worker bees that get out of that package will do their best to stay with the box, so long as the queen is inside. Imagine that! The lost bees clinging to the grocery sack packing. Wherever the USPS conveyor goes, there go the missing bees.

Omg. You guys. That means we can out the queen bee in her little enclosed royal throne, and then attach that throne to an RC drone. I wonder how fast the bees would go to follow their queen?
posted by ian1977 at 3:35 AM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

He's now tweeting about Obama wiretapping Trump Tower before the election.

The tweets span half an hour...

"Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!"
posted by knapah at 4:06 AM on March 4, 2017 [13 favorites]

Sometimes senile grandpa goes off the rails without his favorite daughter there to calm him.

Speaking of the devil:

How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!

posted by susuman at 4:07 AM on March 4, 2017 [12 favorites]

Amphetamine psychosis is probably the KINDEST interpretation.
posted by mikelieman at 4:10 AM on March 4, 2017 [14 favorites]

I dunno. It's not unknown for people being investigated for serious international criminality to have their HQ phones tapped by the FBI, is it? And at some point, if that person turns into POTUS, they'll probably find out.

What with all those top-secret briefings going on and all.

Or he could just be insane. Hard to tell.

Either way, in the same way that smoking a cigarette shortens your lifetime by the time taken to smoke it, every day he stays in power probably shortens his term by an equivalent amount. The calculus of when to dump him v the mid-terms must be fascinating
posted by Devonian at 4:19 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

Everyone needs to calm down. Chill and organise.
posted by esto-again at 4:20 AM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

"He just found out" - it's probably not going to be a slow day after all.
posted by mumimor at 4:22 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Seismographs around the planet have detected an unusual - and unusually strong - signal. The epicentre triangulates to Spicer's bedroom, and the waveform decodes to 'Oh FUCK'.
posted by Devonian at 4:28 AM on March 4, 2017 [20 favorites]

Just trying to make sense of all the information and keep track of my own understanding of the situation with Russia.

I've been going back and forth a little this week on whether it seems likely that Trump and/or his campaign staff coordinated with Russia about the hacking. On the one hand, obviously it's now been thoroughly confirmed that the campaign staff had a lot of contact with Russia during the campaign, so there were plenty of opportunities to coordinate.

On the other hand, "useful idiots" would seem to fit these guys so well! They didn't need to know what was going on, and why tell them if they don't need to know? And if Putin has dirt (money laundering or pee tapes or both) on Trump, that would be plenty of motivation for him to act on his own to help Trump, no coordination needed.

During the campaign I believed that Trump wanted to be in the Russian Oligarchs' "cool kids club" and was sucking up to those guys for that reason, giving them plenty of motive to help him for their own sakes. (And because they probably would have tried to undermine Clinton almost no matter who her opponent was.) That's basically Josh Marshall's "most innocent possible explanation," and it's still technically possible. No collusion or blackmail.

But with the whole Rosneft thing, and the dossier partially verified, and the Rybolovlev thing and Felix Sater and Bayrock, it's really starting to seem like there must be some fire in all that smoke. The most innocent explanation doesn't seem very plausible anymore. But if blackmail happened, wouldn't that make collusion unnecessary? Is it gilding the lilly to claim both happened? I mean, I should pick one, right?

But then I remembered this article, about how Trump incorporated the Wikileaks releases into his campaign speeches, and how that fed the Wikileaks stories and kept them alive.

So that's pushing me back toward thinking that coordination did happen, which means I'm now at a point where I believe it's likely the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to hack the Democrats AND that Russia has some kind of dirt on Trump, both scandals at the same time, and I can't decide if that's violating Occam's razor or not. (I guess it seems consistent with Trump's razor!)
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:37 AM on March 4, 2017 [22 favorites]

Yes Donald, the US IC intercepts - or "tapps" - every damn foreign call made and keeps metadata on everything else. A certain segment of your constituency has been trying to raise concerns about this since 9/11 and the Patriot Act. Welcome to 21st century America, you fool. We all knew some poor sucker was going to get publicly fucked by that panopticon sooner or later. Glad it's going to be you.
posted by klarck at 4:39 AM on March 4, 2017 [69 favorites]

Wasn't Manafort living in Trump Tower for a while? (I could be wrong.) It's rumored there were FISA warrants issued for people in his campaign because of their Russia ties, so could it be him? It was originally assumed that Flynn was a target of a FISA warrant, but it seems his Russian ambassador conversation got picked up by regular signal intercerpt that would be done on the Russian ambassador that's a known spy recruiter.
posted by bluecore at 4:39 AM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

God, I just feel like arguing over who set off the Civil War that leaves us all broken and bloody is enormously exhausting. I'd rather talk about, in order:

1) How to stop American fascism
2) How to stop the American Civil War, Electric Boogaloo, from becoming a shooting war
3) How to rebuild the wreckage of our country
4) Party because we are all alive.

Yeah, but the problem is that 1) and 2) require persuasion, and, by looking at who started it and how -- screaming about Obama's birth certificate, lying about literally everything until they believed their own lies -- it becomes pretty clear that one side does not inhabit reality.

How do you share a physical country with people who reject a common reality so they can act out their darkest, most violent, most hateful urges? Or who are so trapped in a fearful illusion that they'll support the sadists with the dark, violent, and hateful urges?

I'm asking seriously. I think the commenter up above (holgate?) who said there's something weird about the Internet because it flattens things and brings the hatefulness of people everywhere up close, was onto something. The fascists and racists and misogynists have used it to organize. Now we have to.

Seriously, where's our Cambridge Analytica? I don't have the expertise to set something like that up, but I'd love to throw some money at an organization that used that sort of manipulation for good.

I'm sort of past caring that it's creepy. We're talking about preventing a likely genocide. "Creepy but effective" should absolutely be in play.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:11 AM on March 4, 2017 [24 favorites]

At breakfast, someone must have explained to Trump what the implications of Coons' claim that "transcripts exist" are.

Start sweating Donald. Carter Page has been on national TV twice, threatening - or begging, it's hard to tell - to be your John Dean.
posted by klarck at 5:11 AM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

Several comments deleted. Let's drop the meat smuggling extended derail, please.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:12 AM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

Okay, I've got a bigly idea. Instead of having a literal wall at the Mexican-American border, for aesthetic reasons, we can build a series of Statues of Liberty, one every hundred yards.

In her crown we can have machine gun turrets. Her eyes can be laser cannons. If any illegal human tries to sneak past, she will lower her torch and burn them alive.

Okay, the border is 1952 miles, which makes for 32,600 Freedom Colossi, or 614,000 dollars each at 20 billion dollars.(We'll save by hiring undocumented workers.) Toss in a few extra thousand each to include speakers to blast Emma Lazarus's poem at a deafening volume, and we've got something going.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:14 AM on March 4, 2017 [33 favorites]

Nothing like waking up to rants from your crazy uncle President. I'm a little concerned that he called Obama bad and sick but I guess Obama can take care of himself.

It does appear that DJT still has not come to grips with the fact that he is president. If he feels that something nefarious happened he could start an investigation of his own or at the very least talk to Comey and then the White House legal counsel to review what his options are. But Trump just rants and raves like he's still an ordinary citizen who has been wronged. This is another good reason to get him out of office before he starts figuring out how much power he wields.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:26 AM on March 4, 2017 [29 favorites]

>"Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!"

Added to the list of things Trump doesn't know: what McCarthyism is.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 5:29 AM on March 4, 2017 [71 favorites]

He's not done:

Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't voluntarily leaving the Apprentice, he was fired by his bad (pathetic) ratings, not by me. Sad end to great show
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:33 AM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

Is the dementia obvious enough yet?
posted by michswiss at 5:38 AM on March 4, 2017 [27 favorites]

From the Washington Post:

Trump offered no citations nor point to any credible news report to back up his accusation, but may have been referring to commentary on Breitbart and conservative talk radio suggesting that Obama and his administration used "police state" tactics last fall to monitor the Trump team. The Breitbart story, published Friday, has been circulating among White House officials, according to an administration official.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:42 AM on March 4, 2017 [19 favorites]

bluecore: Wasn't Manafort living in Trump Tower for a while? (I could be wrong.)

Fact checking myself:

Paul Manafort, Floor 43
Trump’s former campaign manager, who resigned in August, has lived in Trump Tower since 2006. Manafort transferred the apartment from an LLC to his name in 2015.
posted by bluecore at 5:46 AM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

@matthewchampion
how news works:

Thursday: Conservative radio show says Obama sought Trump wiretap
Friday: Breitbart reports this
Saturday: Trump tweets it
[screenshots of transcripts and articles]
posted by chris24 at 5:49 AM on March 4, 2017 [45 favorites]

His tween about "Turned down by court" points toward these tweets referring to the FISA story.

Claim broken by Louise Mensch on Heat Street (whose credibility problems we've talked about in past threads)

Mentioned in this Guardian article (which notes the FISA court originally turned it down)

Posted yesterday by Breitbart (the most likely culprit)

How do you share a physical country with people who reject a common reality so they can act out their darkest, most violent, most hateful urges? Or who are so trapped in a fearful illusion that they'll support the sadists with the dark, violent, and hateful urges?

Ask a minority in the South. They've been practicing this for a couple hundred years.
posted by delfin at 5:52 AM on March 4, 2017 [58 favorites]

When one of our longest, staunchest allies has to recall their diplomatic corps to determine how to deal with a rogue United States.

Foreign Policy: Australia Calls All Hands On Deck to Reset Foreign Policy
posted by chris24 at 5:54 AM on March 4, 2017 [22 favorites]

The Sunday morning shows should be interesting. Right now I'm playing a little game where I imagine who will appear to represent the administration and what they will say.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:56 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Is the dementia obvious enough yet?

It's been obvious for a couple years. The people around him know it, his kids know it, they all know it. They're all riding to power on the back of it.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:56 AM on March 4, 2017 [15 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump
How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!

@SopanDeb Retweeted Donald J. Trump
"He became president of the United States in that moment, period." - Pundit reaction to Trump's speech just days ago.
----

Van Jones is having a good morning.
posted by chris24 at 5:58 AM on March 4, 2017 [25 favorites]

Just a reminder that these are the tweets of quite probably the most powerful human being to ever have existed, and if he gets cranky enough to destroy humanity, nobody has the legal power to stop him. He's basically an insane and evil god of death and he's in charge of the world. Happy Saturday, everybody.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:03 AM on March 4, 2017 [52 favorites]

Ask a minority in the South. They've been practicing this for a couple hundred years.

Or you know, ask a so-called minority in the north. Don't be naive.
posted by milarepa at 6:07 AM on March 4, 2017 [22 favorites]

@NickKristof
Journalists know: When leaders go berserk, furiously denying there's anything going on, blaming others--that's when you're getting close.
posted by chris24 at 6:12 AM on March 4, 2017 [86 favorites]

If Pence hasn't already, he should start drafting that 25th Amendment letter. "It is with a heavy heart and the deepest regret...", etc.
posted by yhbc at 6:15 AM on March 4, 2017 [11 favorites]

Sometimes I daydream of how different our world would be right now if Twitter had never existed.
posted by lydhre at 6:17 AM on March 4, 2017 [18 favorites]

Stage 1: Crazy old man yelling at TV
Stage 2: Crazy old man ranting about bugs
Stage 3: ???
Stage 4: P̶r̶o̶f̶i̶t̶ Impeach
posted by chris24 at 6:21 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

Seriously, where's our Cambridge Analytica?

There's vote.org, whose 2016 election efforts are being analyzed by the Analyst Institute. Trying to find out how that went.
posted by Coventry at 6:34 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Thing is, I think the 25th Amendment is a non-starter since most of his supporters see absolutely nothing out of the ordinary in his deranged rants. Hell, they strongly identify with every word he says.

Calling him crazy is calling them crazy and the GOP is never ever going to do that. Now Russian collusion they could use, but Trump's dementia, as obvious as it is, is not going to be mentioned, ever.
posted by lydhre at 6:34 AM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

'Just racist': EPA cuts will hit black and Hispanic communities the hardest?

Someome please explain to me how this isn't negligent homicide?
posted by Monkey0nCrack at 6:35 AM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

WaPo on the "tapp" tweets:
"It's highly unlikely there was a wiretap," said one former senior intelligence official familiar with surveillance law who spoke candidly on the condition of anonymity. The former official continued: "It seems unthinkable. If that were the case by some chance, that means that a federal judge would have found that there was either probable cause that he had committed a crime or was an agent of a foreign power."
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:36 AM on March 4, 2017 [75 favorites]

I feel like someone hacked into my computer and is using it to make a Downfall parody while I watch.
posted by Etrigan at 6:37 AM on March 4, 2017 [18 favorites]

news just hit that a russian oligarch is the main investor behind palantir

Got a link?
posted by Coventry at 6:38 AM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

Someone please explain to me how this isn't negligent homicide?

Well, I guess it might be intentional homicide?
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:38 AM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

"It's highly unlikely there was a wiretap,"

Trump's mirror is scary to look at, here.
posted by Coventry at 6:40 AM on March 4, 2017

I think Trump's mirror in this case = "I read a scary article on Steve's website and rather than use the numerous powerful sources of information at my disposal to determine whether it's true, I anxiety/rage-tweeted about it to hundreds of millions of people."
posted by sallybrown at 6:43 AM on March 4, 2017 [15 favorites]

@bradheath
Can a president declassify FISA warrants via a tweet? Guess we're going to find out."
posted by Coventry at 6:44 AM on March 4, 2017 [33 favorites]

Maybe he just forgot he installed them all himself.
posted by dng at 6:44 AM on March 4, 2017

sallybrown, my read is he's looking for justification to surveil his political opponents.
posted by Coventry at 6:46 AM on March 4, 2017 [9 favorites]

According to @costareports, it looks like there's no babysitters for the Toddler-In-Chief, with predictable results:

confirmed: Priebus and Bannon are *not* in Florida with POTUS, per WH, though they may fly down there later today

Several Trump advisers woke up this morning surprised by the president's tweets. They weren't told of his plans, a 2nd official says. The 2nd official tells me the expectation for Saturday was a "down day, pretty quiet." No planning for wire-tapping allegation. Trump left WH in a fury on Friday, fuming about Sessions's recusal and telling aides that Sessions shouldn't have recused himself...President remarked to staff that Sessions/WH/DOJ should have done more to counter Sessions story, that it was "bull," per aides familiar

posted by zombieflanders at 6:47 AM on March 4, 2017 [40 favorites]

The best take is from David Frum (!): "The president is reminding us that the FISA court approved warrants against his campaign on espionage suspicions."

Remember when we thought his little twitter rants were engineered to distract us from more nefarious things? Ha.
posted by sallybrown at 6:48 AM on March 4, 2017 [66 favorites]

Justification? Trump requiring justification?

This is more like "WE CAN DO THAT? Why did no one tell me that we can do that?"
posted by delfin at 6:48 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

sallybrown, my read is he's looking for justification to surveill his political opponents.

What? When would he ever look for justification for anything?

People keep interpreting this demented narcissist as though his thought processes were rational, if evil. They aren't. He's spooked, and he's lashing out without thinking, and there's no one to stop him.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:48 AM on March 4, 2017 [58 favorites]

sallybrown, my read is he's looking for justification to surveil his political opponents.

I truly don't think he's that smart or calculating. I think he's venting his anger and frustration at "how come everyone talks mean about me but when Obama did this to me no one blames him!"
posted by sallybrown at 6:49 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

I'll never be over the fact that I feel such glee when I know facts are just ruining his fucking day.
posted by lydhre at 6:50 AM on March 4, 2017 [55 favorites]

I had an inaccuracy in my earlier response, here's an accurate version:

Feel free to flag as a derail, but I want to briefly discuss what the Department of Education was up to this week:

Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos created a shitstorm after meeting with HBCU leaders (Historically Black Colleges and Universities) and used them as examples of school choice working. Said DeVos, historically black colleges and universities “are real pioneers when it comes to school choice...they are living proof that when more options are provided to students, they are afforded greater access and greater quality. Their success has shown that more options help students flourish.”

People with an actual basic understanding of US history were quick to note that Jim Crow laws did not equal school choice.

DeVos and 45 also visited a Catholic charter school in Florida. 45 described St. Andrew as "one of the many parochial schools dedicated to educating disadvantaged children," conveniently forgetting there are literally thousands of public schools that already do this.

House bill HR 610 entered the legislative process. If passed, the bill will allow federal funds to be dispersed to state governments and/or parents to cover some costs of sending children ages 5-17 to private or charter schools.

DeVos has not announced whether or not she has found the pencils (smiley face). She has not been schooled in the fact that educators spend their own money to buy supplies for themselves and their students, and that she should probably just shut up, go to Staples and spend her own billions on a few Ticonderoga #2s.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 6:51 AM on March 4, 2017 [17 favorites]

He's tweeting about Russia to distract us from Russia. #Trumpception.
posted by chris24 at 6:53 AM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

Quick reminder: we've asked that folks not fill up these threads with constant individual tweets, but maybe compile a few together or make the occasional digest of the more important ones that share pertinent info. Here's an example from above. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:55 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

The GOP platform as a whole is negligent homicide.
posted by Artw at 6:55 AM on March 4, 2017 [11 favorites]

I don't think it's negligent if 80% of your party is definitely doing it on purpose.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:58 AM on March 4, 2017 [9 favorites]

I'll never be over the fact that I feel such glee when I know facts are just ruining his fucking day.

You can just expand that to include all of us with the facts and logic on our side feel glee when the science- and fact-deniers get slapped in the face with reality. We have no greater weapon than reality. We can argue Truth, Facts, Science til we are blue in the face but until there are consequences for not believing in those things, some people on the right feel they don't have to pay attention.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:58 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

I don't see any way in which Trump's latest tweets don't make things very messy for him (and us) in the very near future.
posted by diogenes at 7:01 AM on March 4, 2017 [12 favorites]

@ericgarland
THREAD
Where this is all heading: Crazytown, with a stopover at Humiliationville
The story is coming out and it won't be pretty.
Oh, I think we have the story itself down, which is horrid but pretty simple: Trump, Russia, money, etc.
The *reaction* will be ugly.
The authoritarian - I no longer call them conservative - wing of US politics has spent 30 years propagandizing people toward paranoia.
Science is out to get you. Meteorologists are lying. History is fake news. Obama is a Martian. Chemtrails!
It's been a brainwashing.
We no longer have different opinions or ideologies, but entirely different sets of facts.
All inconvenient facts are called lies.
Our intelligence and law enforcement professionals are about to produce the least convenient facts in American political history.
Unless the last eight months of signaling - up to this morning - are off base, we're about to learn about treason by a sitting president.
This will cause the people who put Trump in office to enter the biggest spasm of paranoia we've ever seen to deny their own humiliation.
They've been carefully conditioned to reject all inconvenient facts as The Enemy's Conspiracy.
They're about to reject our System.
In an effort to avoid their own humiliation, they're about to de-legitimize our democracy, government, intel agencies, and rule of law.
Trump is leading the way, characterizing the legitimate activities of government that protect us from traitors as a conspiracy against him.
To get by this, the government will need to present overwhelming evidence of his misdeeds.
I suspect they will do just that.
The thrashing and convulsions are going to get ugly, from this grotesque president down to the voters who put their confused faith in him.
This is the damage Putin sought to cause us - to make America look just as wretched as his own insane dictatorship over Russia.
Will American's swing back toward objective reality and away from paranoia to prove him wrong?
Not, sadly, without an embarrassing fight.
Some say I'm too optimistic.
On this issue, I'm not optimistic at all.
I just hope we one day snap out of it.
/THREAD
posted by chris24 at 7:01 AM on March 4, 2017 [138 favorites]

Oh God.

Thanks for putting that together, chris24.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:04 AM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

I don't see any way in which Trumps latest tweets don't make things very messy for him (and us) in the very near future.

@DavidCornDC
Does Trump realize he's suggesting FBI Director Jim Comey illegally conspired against him?
posted by chris24 at 7:04 AM on March 4, 2017 [37 favorites]

This is how dumb this man is: he is the President of the United States. Couldn't he call someone and say "yo, tell me, is this true? Did you guys tap my phones or not?" or at least "Get me a list of the phones under FISA surveillance at Trump Tower"? Instead he rants and raves on Twitter?

Except he's so paranoid - about everything, not just leaks - that he doesn't have anyone in the intelligence community he could make such a request of. Flynn is gone, McMaster isn't on board yet, and Comey isn't "his guy", leaving Trump as isolated as Nixon in late '73, with the tapes's release just around the corner. With his IC bridges burned (and Bannon not around to calm him down), he's got nowhere to turn but Twitter.

"If that were the case by some chance, that means that a federal judge would have found that there was either probable cause that he had committed a crime or was an agent of a foreign power."

"Agent of a foreign power", you say? Just to add another drip to that steady stream here's what Trump said in 2014 interview: '2014: Trump says give Russia a pass because "We're going to win something important later on and they won't be opposed to what we're doing."', in retrospect, perhaps like Trump winning the presidency.

While the US media didn't notice it, Russia Today picked up on it, of course: 'More Russian media from February 2014. Headline: "Donald Trump: Stop picking on Russia!"' (Google translation).

Drip, drip, drip.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:05 AM on March 4, 2017 [17 favorites]

@ericgarland
THREAD

Just the typical caveat with the Trump/Russia Twitter Truthers - Eric Garland has been tweeting variations of "it's all happening!!!" since before inauguration. I think his analysis of information that emerges is good, but I haven't found his predictions to be trustworthy.
posted by sallybrown at 7:07 AM on March 4, 2017 [13 favorites]

I don't see any way in which Trump's latest tweets don't make things very messy for him (and us) in the very near future.

I'm just waking up and getting up to speed here, but i think you're over-reacting to the fact that Arnie won't be on the Apprentice anymore.
posted by nubs at 7:09 AM on March 4, 2017 [26 favorites]

Welp, certainly something was happening. More than I would have expected.
posted by Artw at 7:09 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

I see from my local news source that there is a Pro-Trump rally in Raleigh today from noon until 4:00 with a dozen speakers. I can't imagine who the speakers will be but I imagine they will be local GOPers and maybe a businessman or former mayor or State Senator if they are lucky.
They are encouraging people to wear red and bring homemade posters.

Also I didn't see much publicity about this until now but then again I'm not hooked into the Republican pipeline so who knows?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:09 AM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

An itshappening.gif clock is right twice an Administration?
posted by Etrigan at 7:09 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

FWIW, Breitbart is making a similar claim, or at least reporting that an unrelated radio commentator is claiming it:

In summary: the Obama administration sought, and eventually obtained, authorization to eavesdrop on the Trump campaign; continued monitoring the Trump team even when no evidence of wrongdoing was found; then relaxed the NSA rules to allow evidence to be shared widely within the government, virtually ensuring that the information, including the conversations of private citizens, would be leaked to the media.

posted by Coventry at 7:10 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Is there a fancy word for rule-by-comments-section?
posted by Artw at 7:11 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

@justinhendrix: 1/ The wiretaps that Donald Trump "just found out" about have been reported for weeks. I'm going to summarize here some of the discussion. [14 tweets w/embedded source info]
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:11 AM on March 4, 2017 [13 favorites]

Is there a fancy word for rule-by-comments-section?

"Kakistocracy" still works.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:14 AM on March 4, 2017 [17 favorites]

ha ha this was the weekend i wasn't going to look at the news and play Zelda instead

oops
posted by murphy slaw at 7:16 AM on March 4, 2017 [13 favorites]

@matthewamiller

By confirming it publicly, Trump has also pretty much guaranteed no one can be charged for leaking the existence of this FISA warrant. Oops!
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:18 AM on March 4, 2017 [34 favorites]

Is there a fancy word for rule-by-comments-section?

Idiocracy, of course.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:19 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

By confirming it publicly, Trump has also pretty much guaranteed no one can be charged for leaking the existence of this FISA warrant. Oops!

And increasing pressure for public release of transcripts and a special prosecutor. Well done Donnie.
posted by chris24 at 7:20 AM on March 4, 2017 [38 favorites]

Who keeps changing the thermostat in the White House? Obama!
posted by thelonius at 7:21 AM on March 4, 2017 [14 favorites]

it becomes pretty clear that one side does not inhabit reality.

How do you share a physical country with people who reject a common reality so they can act out their darkest, most violent, most hateful urges? Or who are so trapped in a fearful illusion that they'll support the sadists with the dark, violent, and hateful urges?

I think the actual answer is you move back to where a significant majority can agree and work from there. Yes, there are people who believe the Obama birth certificate stuff, but they all fall into the crazification factor. There is a significant percentage of Republicans who would love to return to a reality based community, but don't really have a space because the Democrats are holding the line on stuff that's poison to them.

Without getting into a long argument about Whether The Democrats Are Right, I'm going to say that in a sense, it doesn't matter how right they are if they're moving so fast the rest of the country, minus the crazies, won't follow. The way a country as large as ours works is that on some things, a rough consensus does need to be sought. Even if that consensus isn't what you want, even if you feel that consensus is years behind where you want it to be. You can't make a healthy country by legislating for only - let's generously say 52% of it.

Because there's a difference between objective facts and subjective facts, and on who agrees and who disagrees over them. Objective facts are, "This happened." Subjective facts say, "And this is why." People need to stop presenting their subjective facts as though they're objective facts - and talk to people who can agree on the objective ones.
posted by corb at 7:21 AM on March 4, 2017 [15 favorites]

@ericgarland
THREAD

Isn't Eric Garland the “Guys, it's time for some game theory.” guy?
posted by My Dad at 7:24 AM on March 4, 2017 [9 favorites]

Corb, we are not abandoning "POC are people" or "Science is Real" to reach some godforsaken "common ground" as determined by Overton window shift. They'd only shift their common ground further, over a bottomless pit.
posted by Artw at 7:25 AM on March 4, 2017 [95 favorites]

This seems like a smart move for someone who probably has as much to hide as Trump. And the war with the IC has gone great for them so far.

@costareports
Bannon is working closely with Trump on combating what he calls the "deep state" in intel comm, per multiple people at WH
posted by chris24 at 7:26 AM on March 4, 2017 [10 favorites]

here is a significant percentage of Republicans who would love to return to a reality based community, but don't really have a space because the Democrats are holding the line on stuff that's poison to them.

Unfortunately that's because the things that Democrats are holding the line on are themselves based in reality -- tax cuts for the rich don't pay for themselves, we need sensible regulations, and the environment shouldn't be sold to the highest bidder.

I also disagree that it's a matter of moving fast at all. What we're talking about is essentially conservatism -- preserving the New Deal (which the Republicans have never forgiven the Democrats for saving the country with), preserving regulations that span from the end of the Gilded Age to solving the ecological crises of the 1970s. Democrats are happy to stand still, except for the continued project of seeing that all Americans enjoy the same rights and freedoms. If the Republicans want to turn back the clock, that doesn't mean the Democrats are moving too far ahead at all.
posted by Gelatin at 7:27 AM on March 4, 2017 [62 favorites]

Without getting into a long argument about Whether The Democrats Are Right, I'm going to say that in a sense, it doesn't matter how right they are if they're moving so fast the rest of the country, minus the crazies, won't follow.

What specifically are you talking about as far as "moving so fast"? I don't want to assume. There are things I'm happy to find common ground on (economic proposals) and things I won't negotiate about (other Americans' human rights).
posted by sallybrown at 7:30 AM on March 4, 2017 [11 favorites]

Even if that consensus isn't what you want, even if you feel that consensus is years behind where you want it to be. You can't make a healthy country by legislating for only - let's generously say 52% of it.

I'm struggling to think of a time in the past....30...40...50...60? years when Republicans have introduced legislation or promoted policies intended to help a majority of people. They have been on the wrong side of every issue I can think of; promoting policies that objective evidence says will exacerbate the problems rather than solve them. Democrats don't always have the right ideas, but they have them at least some of the time.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:31 AM on March 4, 2017 [25 favorites]

Corb, we are not abandoning "POC are people" or "Science is Real" to reach some godforsaken "common ground" as determined by Overton window shift

I think that's an extremely uncharitable, and undeserved, read of my comment. I didn't mean that and I don't want that.

What I want people to ask is, "How could I talk to Evan McMullin, or Ana Navarro? What compromise could I find with reasonable, honorable, opposition?"
posted by corb at 7:31 AM on March 4, 2017 [31 favorites]

Isn't Eric Garland the “Guys, it's time for some game theory.” guy?

Yes. As sallybrown mentioned above, his tweetstorm needs the usual caveats, but events/facts keep moving toward itshappening.gif. And his comments within the thread about how Republicans have become disconnected from reality are pretty accurate IMO regardless of RussiaGate panning out.
posted by chris24 at 7:33 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

My problem with twitter

I have a lot of problems with twitter, but if the treasonous, illegitimate 45th POTUS just permanently fucked himself by declassifying a FISA tap over Twitter because it is a tool that perfectly enables his demented narcissism and lack of impulse control...

I don't want to say that all is forgiven. But close.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:34 AM on March 4, 2017 [33 favorites]

corb, you are unlikely to get satisfying answers to those questions in this forum. There's too much emotion tied up in them here. There would have to be some way of reducing the sense of threat, first.
posted by Coventry at 7:36 AM on March 4, 2017 [14 favorites]

And frankly, the Republicans' hostility to science and objective evidence gives the game away on the matter of whether "this is why" is subjective. Kansas' tax cuts have been so much of a disaster that even Republicans are opposing Brownback so that he doesn't sink the entire state party. The Republicans refuse to even let the CDC collect data on deaths and injuries from guns -- why, if not for the belief that that data would suggest policies they disagree with? Why after all these years do the Republicans not have a plan to replace the ACA?

Because Republican policies do not work as advertised, period. They're terribly effective at increasing the holdings of the wealthy, but that is not a popular enough stance. Republicans must deny objective reality because the subjective reality -- "this is why" -- doesn't favor them. That's why we have a president that believes what even George W. Bush knew was stupid and counter-productive -- that saying the words "radical Islamic terrorism" is some magic talisman to make the bad guys go away.

I know cognitive dissonance is painful, but it is not the responsibility of liberals to pretend that evidence and reality is not a thing in order to cajole Republicans along. Democrats acknowledge the reality that sensible gun control laws are a non-starter, for example -- not that the NRA operates in good faith and acknowledges it. Republicans need to get over themselves and operate in good faith -- the country needs it! The Democrats need it! -- but it isn't our fault they've dug themselves in so deep pursuing unpopular and unrealistic objectives.
posted by Gelatin at 7:37 AM on March 4, 2017 [80 favorites]

What I want people to ask is, "How could I talk to Evan McMullin, or Ana Navarro? What compromise could I find with reasonable, honorable, opposition?

Corb, the problem is that there are so few of those Republicans that they have no power at all. Democrats didn't do that. Republicans voting for crazy people did that.

There's no reasonable Republican in power to talk to, and there hasn't been for a long, long time.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:37 AM on March 4, 2017 [55 favorites]

I'm struggling to think of a time in the past....30...40...50...60? years when Republicans have introduced legislation or promoted policies intended to help a majority of people.

Eisenhower's 1954 plan to socialize health insurance losses almost squeaks in.
posted by Coventry at 7:39 AM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

I also want to say that while I disagree with you on many, many things, I respect the fact that you stick it out in these conversations when you are inevitably outnumbered. And also that you fought that slimy orange disease as hard as you could.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:40 AM on March 4, 2017 [84 favorites]

Regarding the stonewall metaphor of the post totle, I wonder how long it will be until we see Trump Administration figures pleading the Fifth?
posted by Gelatin at 7:41 AM on March 4, 2017

How could I talk to Evan McMullin, or Ana Navarro? What compromise could I find with reasonable, honorable, opposition?

Opposition to legal abortion is not reasonable, full stop. It doesn't even reduce the incidence of abortion; it just kills women. When they stop being against reproductive justice, we can start having a conversation.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:42 AM on March 4, 2017 [80 favorites]

there are so few of those Republicans that they have no power at all.

What I read corb as proposing is a coalition between the Never Trumpers and liberals, saying the liberals need to be able to find a common ground with sensible conservatives and together they'll have the political might to fight the current administration. Personally I think the common ground needs to be sought from the sensible conservative side, moving towards the liberal ideology, mostly because of ideas like 'subjective facts.'

You can use ~~objective~~ facts to describe why something happened too.
posted by carsonb at 7:43 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

Remember:

A Taxonomy of Trump's Tweets:

1. Preemptive Framing
2. Diversion
3. Deflection
4. Trial Balloon
posted by gwint at 7:44 AM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

corb, even the common ground with the fabled Never Trump republicans doesn't actually extend to opposing Trump (see McCain et al) - can't side with a side that isn't there. Does McMuffin hold any kind of office?
posted by Artw at 7:45 AM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

I'm struggling to think of a time in the past....30...40...50...60? years when Republicans have introduced legislation or promoted policies intended to help a majority of people.

Nixon created the EPA by executive order.
posted by kokaku at 7:45 AM on March 4, 2017 [32 favorites]

I guess that I'm a total pragmatist, and I'm willing to work with most people on some things while opposing them on others. There are some exceptions. Trump is an exception: I'm not willing to normalize his presidency. But I know a fair number of anti-choice people with whom I have a lot of common ground on other issues, and I am absolutely willing to work with them to oppose capital punishment or support families in poverty or achieve all the other goals about which we agree. I have less common ground with most conservatives, but when I find it, I'm willing to pursue it.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:46 AM on March 4, 2017 [16 favorites]

1. Preemptive Framing
2. Diversion
3. Deflection
4. Trial Balloon
[5. Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't voluntarily leaving the Apprentice, he was fired by his bad (pathetic) ratings, not by me. Sad end to great show]
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:47 AM on March 4, 2017 [11 favorites]

Black women ftw.

@CBSNews
"Great job to the speechwriter, but I will see Donald Trump at 12 a.m. [on Twitter]", member of @FrankLuntz's focus group says. [video]
posted by chris24 at 7:48 AM on March 4, 2017 [27 favorites]

We've also pointed out the number of times people whose political interests make them brand thesmelves as "reasonable Republicans" -- McCain and Collins, to name two -- vote in lockstep with the rest of their party, standing up to be counted with the worst of the worst -- when it matters.

And it matters! The slim Senat majorty means even a few Republican defectors tips the scales. Senators could use that power to influence policy -- see, ACA, negotiations over -- but the objective reality is they're just voting lockstep after all.
posted by Gelatin at 7:49 AM on March 4, 2017 [46 favorites]

I am struggling to think of a Republican initiative in the past 30 years that wasn't about either a) tax cuts to slash entitlements, b) slashing entitlements for tax cuts, c) fucking over black people, poor people, or women, or d) all of the above. Like as long as I've been alive, I haven't been able to identify what they are actually FOR other than helping rich people and using hateful poor people to do it.

That is not to say there haven't been any, or there haven't been any Republicans who stand for something other than that. But if there are, they've been drowned out by the tsunami of hate and avarice for my entire life, at least on the national stage. Local might be different. (Not where I'm from, but it's a big country.)
posted by schadenfrau at 7:50 AM on March 4, 2017 [26 favorites]

Democrats are happy to stand still, except for the continued project of seeing that all Americans enjoy the same rights and freedoms.

And arguably that's what got the Dems into electoral bother, because the transformation of the GOP over the past 25 years into a machine that does radical things on the state level and obstructs on the national level created a sense that the Dems were the party of stopping things. Bill Clinton's election in 1992 convinced large chunks of the institutional GOP that Democrats were never to be allowed the right to govern again.

At the same time, "move fast and break things" has been the theme of every shitty bit of legislation introduced into every state legislature by every dipshit GOP legislator dipped in the shit of right-wing talk radio and online media like a shitty Achilles.
posted by holgate at 7:53 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

the liberals need to be able to find a common ground with sensible conservatives and together they'll have the political might to fight the current administration

I actually think we're starting to get there. There is a lot of "interspecies" (jk) dialogue going on, at least on Twitter. And it's possibly confirmation bias, but I started following Fox News as a way of getting a better view of talking points on both sides, and I've noticed in the comments that I'm far from alone.

Trump has pushed the traditional GOP pundit class into a place where some of their reactions are appealing to more traditional Democratic pundits. Even someone like Joe Walsh (whom I am not endorsing or recommending, at all!) is vacillating between stances like "all illegal immigrants should be deported" (repulsive to me) and "we need a full Russia investigation - it looks terrible that the GOP is resisting this" (I agree!).

And it's clear that some "liberal media" people have managed to build credibility with GOP pundits over the Obama years. If you look at the responses to Jake Tapper's tweets, there's the telltale sign of that - comments like "I expected better from you!" from a conservative media person, suggesting Tapper has a level of trust with the "other side." (I find comments like this encouraging because it means at least they are continuing to listen, and immediate gut reactions say more about where a person's thinking starts than where it will eventually end up.)

I don't know that dialogue necessarily leads to policy compromise, but more and more it looks like pundits/commentators/informed observers are all in one big room talking rather than smaller echo chambers. If they can get there, so can many other people, I have to believe.
posted by sallybrown at 7:53 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

Livestream of Lindsey Graham townhall.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:54 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

Personally I think the common ground needs to be sought from the sensible conservative side, moving towards the liberal ideology, mostly because of ideas like 'subjective facts.'

It's been said here before, but I'll say it again: actual reasonable conservatives are going to have to accept a little socialism if they want to fight a lot of fascism.

If they're going to hang on to demonstrably harmful economic policies, demonstrably racist voter suppression, demonstrably misogynist attacks on women's health care, and demonstrably homophobic/transphobic "religious freedom" policies, then they're not actually being reasonable. They're just polishing that "alternative facts" turd and whining about how unreasonable liberals are because they won't meet them halfway.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:55 AM on March 4, 2017 [30 favorites]

The Rachel Maddow article.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:00 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

ICE Deports Salvadoran Father in Houston with No Criminal History Just last week, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement had taken Escobar, an undocumented immigrant, into custody at one of his regular annual check-ins. He never saw a judge. The attorney Rose hired for him just filed a stay of deportation Wednesday. His case was never heard. Despite the fact that Escobar has no criminal record, he was placed in expedited deportation proceedings, put on a plane to a country he had not been to since he was 14.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:00 AM on March 4, 2017 [15 favorites]

Are people holding up green and red approval/disapproval cards at the Graham town hall?

Oh I see a Benghazi litmus test for the crowd. Fuck you, Graham.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:00 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

And not to belabor the point, but even Reagan opened his presidential campaign at the Neshoba County State Fair in Philadelphia, MS, a town of 3,000 people notable only for lynchings. 3000 people. There is literally no reason for a presidential candidate to go there except to wink at the Klan.

The GOP has slowly been morphing into various stages of evil since the Civil Rights Act, and this is its final form. Whatever good used to exist there was subsumed long ago, and I suggest that if you want to save it, you strip it out whatever is worth saving and call it something else. The cancer has taken over the host at this point.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:07 AM on March 4, 2017 [65 favorites]

What I want people to ask is, "How could I talk to Evan McMullin, or Ana Navarro? What compromise could I find with reasonable, honorable, opposition?"

I'm going to ask: how does a McMullin or Navarro get elected as a Republican? If the answer is "with the support of Dems who can participate in open primaries and will vote tactically in the general" then to some degree we're back where we started. A lot of the resistance comes from campaign strategists (Wilson, Murphy, Weaver, Stevens) who see their party following a path to a demographic dead end. Are they going to back candidates willing to take on the worst enablers in this climate, or just sit tight and hope that reasonable and honourable comes back into fashion once the smoke clears?
posted by holgate at 8:09 AM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

corb, even the common ground with the fabled Never Trump republicans doesn't actually extend to opposing Trump (see McCain et al)

McCain isn't a Never Trumper - he endorsed Trump. The only GOP elected official I can think of as "Never Trumper" is Gov. Kasich, and even that is a "watch carefully" because he just met with Trump.

I can't speak for corb, but the coalition of GOPers 100% against Trump is: Evan McMullian and Mindy Finn (ran as a third party ticket and founded Stand Up Republic), Matthew Dowd (worked for RNC and GWB campaign and others and now running Listen To Us/Country Over Party), Bill Kristol, David Frum, Stuart Stevens, Steve Schmidt, John Weaver, Richard Painter, etc

These are not household names, certainly, more like people who've had experience working with the household names of the GOP and know them well (suggesting it's easier to be a Never Trumper when you don't depend on being elected). But it gives insight into what people "behind the curtain" of politicians' public positions are thinking.
posted by sallybrown at 8:13 AM on March 4, 2017 [10 favorites]

Other Never Trumpers I forgot to mention: Tom Nichols, Rick Wilson, Cheri Jacobus, Erick Erickson
posted by sallybrown at 8:20 AM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

These are not household names, certainly, more like people who've had experience working with the household names of the GOP and know them well (suggesting it's easier to be a Never Trump when you don't depend on being elected). But it gives insight into what people "behind the curtain" of politicians' public positions are thinking.

Notably not one single elected Republican on that list, and that's the whole problem. It doesn't really matter what "common ground" can be found with nominally Republican strategists and PR flacks, those people have no actual power or influence in their own party. They only play the role of "moderate Republican" on CNN. The actual GOP is still moving in lockstep with Trump, and ever farther to the authoritarian, reality denying right. They're winning elections that way, because that's where the base is. There's no common ground with Democrats or even with reality, because compromise or deviation from their alt-right reality is cause for immediate expulsion from the GOP. Their only concept of compromise is surrender to their framing and policies, just demonstrated by that Coryn tweet.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:21 AM on March 4, 2017 [28 favorites]

the coalition of GOPers 100% against Trump is:

Rick Wilson, Jennifer Rubin, Tom Nichols. And Justin Amash has been pretty good on a lot of issues, especially for an elected Tea Party leader and congressman.

EDIT: Missed your addition of Wilson and Nichols.
posted by chris24 at 8:22 AM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

So still no elected Republicans.

God that is depressing.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:26 AM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

It doesn't really matter what "common ground" can be found with nominally Republican strategists and PR flacks, those people have no actual power or influence in their own party.

They didn't have enough power and influence to stop Trump, and haven't yet. But they have enough power and influence to help turn up the heat and put pressure on elected officials, who may be publicly strongly pro-Trump but privately increasingly concerned.
posted by sallybrown at 8:26 AM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

There is value in these people, even if they don't hold office, being out there saying "I'm a Republican and I oppose this". The Republicans always try to paint any opposition to their policies as coming from Democrats/liberals/etc. Having people who obviously are not those things speaking out against Trump and the Republicans in office is helpful in trying to pull back from the insanity.
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:28 AM on March 4, 2017 [30 favorites]

I don't know about the behind-the-scenes people, but I think that what highly-visible folks like McMullin and Navarro can do is to create space for grassroots conservatives to oppose Trump. It's bad if the only people doing that publicly are liberals or progressives. Unfortunately, grassroots conservatives don't seem to be opposing Trump in great numbers, but maybe that will change.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:30 AM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

I think the NeverTrumpers will not help bring down Trump, but will help keep Republicans from going full reject-the-system-and-reality once he does go down. They're the glide path for the emergency landing.
posted by chris24 at 8:31 AM on March 4, 2017 [20 favorites]

Yeah I think corb has spoken to this before, but if the people who actually do most of the work stop wanting to work for you, there's a whole lot of damage they can do by just...not doing stuff.

Work slow down, sabotage, whatever. It somewhat reminds me of the Steinbeck propaganda novel from WW2, with the nameless mining town that is conquered. Like yeah you can make them work the mines, but you can't make them work the mines well. Plus they will blow shit up and break stuff whenever they can. or, in this case, leak things.

Someone's doing the leaking. They're in a position to do the leaking, and they're doing it. Good on them.

Still depressing as hell that no elected Republican opposes him.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:31 AM on March 4, 2017 [15 favorites]

The fact that the Never Trumpers are a lot of old behind-the-scenes establishment types who have been kicking around DC politics for decades (which is how Trump fans often insult them) also suggests that even quieter GOP establishment types, like career civil servants who came in during the Reagan/Bush/Bush administrations and federal judges appointed by those administrations, could feel the same way, further working against Trump.
posted by sallybrown at 8:34 AM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

And as ridiculous as it is that speaking out for a free press and freedom of religion is considered anti-Trump, Dubya speaking out this week is also cover and reason for traditional Republicans to move to a more anti-Trump position. Hopefully there's more of them than appears from the election results.
posted by chris24 at 8:38 AM on March 4, 2017 [15 favorites]

I'll say it again: actual reasonable conservatives are going to have to accept a little socialism if they want to fight a lot of fascism

See, I find this kind of thing so, so frustrating. Like, even just speaking about myself. I'm right here! I'm ready to oppose fascism! I am ready to be an ally in this fight and agree we can work out policy differences after we defeat fascism! And getting this "well you have to accept socialism or we won't take you in this fight" just feels like an opportunistic slap in the face - like Dems are trying to charge a price for lifeboats off the Titanic. I mean, maybe that's not how it's meant, but that's how it comes off.
posted by corb at 8:40 AM on March 4, 2017 [26 favorites]

CNN: "This did not happen. It is false. Wrong" a former US Official with direct knowledge tells CNN of Trump claim
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:41 AM on March 4, 2017 [20 favorites]

I'm right here! I'm ready to oppose fascism!

This is part and parcel of the self-serving "Vichy republicans" framing that pretends nothing before autumn 2015 happened.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:42 AM on March 4, 2017 [12 favorites]

Not to dogpile here, but corb I'm having a hard time seeing how it's we on the liberal/leftist/Democratic side who need to be reaching out. The Republicans just elected Trump. Sure, there's a few nevertrumpers like you, but as a whole the Party went for him.

I just got threats of physical violence tweeted at me by a Trumper.

I'm having a difficult time seeing how, in the context of American politics as they exist and the Republican Party as it exists, putting the onus on the left to be making concessions to the right is anything but demanding that we surrender what we hold dear in the hopes that maybe, possibly, some of the Republicans aren't fully in the bag for Trump.

but don't really have a space because the Democrats are holding the line on stuff that's poison to them.

What specific things are you asking us Democrats to give up? Because, I think what you need to realize is that its the same is true of the Republicans. Your side is not merely holding the line on stuff that's poison to us, you're winning.

Sure, maybe you're nervous about Trump, maybe you see his racism as troublesome, maybe you see his Russian connections as worrying, and I'm sure there are plenty of Republicans who see his derangement as deeply concerning.

But you're also getting your wish list enacted here.

Under Trump you're getting the utter ruin of the EPA, DOE, and every other federal agency you hate, selling off most Federal land, ending Obamacare, slashing taxes for the rich, eradicating regulation, and so on.

Basically everything the Republicans have wanted for decades but couldn't get is happening.

And to me it seems as if you're asking us on the Democratic side to give up still more all in hopes that maybe there's enough nevertrumpers to get rid of him in 2020?

I won't deny that Trump scares me for a lot of the same reasons he scares you. But other than a mutual dislike of Trump we don't have any other common ground that I can see. Right now you're winning, your side is getting all they want.

If anyone needs to be making concessions and reaching out to the other side, it's you.

What will **YOU** give up legislatively and philosophically to induce Democrats to join you?

And what, specifically, are you asking us to give up? I've got some guesses, but I don't want to put words in your mouth.
posted by sotonohito at 8:43 AM on March 4, 2017 [97 favorites]

This is part and parcel of the self-serving "Vichy republicans" framing that pretends nothing before autumn 2015 happened.

I think it's pretty clear my thoughts on Republicans. So honest question, at what point does castigating Republicans for past mistakes and even current idealogical/moral differences take a back seat to beating Trump.
posted by chris24 at 8:44 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

Here's my question for people more knowledgeable in the succession process in the USA, what happens if the campaign infrastructure is shown to have been fully complicit with the Russia allegations? Does the order of succession have some mechanism that can deal with that level of pruning, or is it just not set up for that?
posted by MattWPBS at 8:44 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

I am ready to be an ally in this fight and agree we can work out policy differences after we defeat fascism!

Yea, we really can't though. The GOP isn't on board with Trump because they agree with his war on the media and Russian ties etc, they're accepting the fascism to impose their racist policies and get the tax cuts they've always wanted. The fascism is the policy.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:46 AM on March 4, 2017 [19 favorites]

I am ready to be an ally in this fight and agree we can work out policy differences after we defeat fascism!

I think the divide probably comes down to (some of) the left having a broader definition of fascism than (some of) the Never Trump folks on the right. If you're against reproductive justice and want to use the power of the state to enforce that, is that fascism? If you're in favor of broken windows policing and felony disenfranchisement, is that fascism? I just have a feeling that Never Trump will be displaying its "Mission Accomplished" banner as soon as Trump is out of the picture while the rest of us are still living under an authoritarian, right-wing government.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:48 AM on March 4, 2017 [22 favorites]

CNN: "This did not happen. It is false. Wrong" a former US Official with direct knowledge tells CNN of Trump claim

Can anyone imagine how history textbooks in the future will recap all of this? The endless stream of daily lies? Will they really get into every single lie told by this administration? I imagine future students reading this and screaming, "How did anyone let this happen?"
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 8:48 AM on March 4, 2017 [18 favorites]

Does the order of succession have some mechanism that can deal with that level of pruning, or is it just not set up for that?

Speaker of the House is 3rd in line, after the VP. In the timeline where we actually get an impeachment and and a conviction in the Senate*, that would be...President Pelosi sometime in 2019.

*the senate part is a particular long shot
posted by schadenfrau at 8:50 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump rolling back CAFE and going after California's more stringent emissions standards.

State's rights AMIRITE?

Looks like the haze is going to be coming back to LA.
posted by Talez at 8:50 AM on March 4, 2017 [35 favorites]

Winding back a little:

The most innocent explanation doesn't seem very plausible anymore. But if blackmail happened, wouldn't that make collusion unnecessary? Is it gilding the lily to claim both happened? I mean, I should pick one, right?

The Steele dossier presents the kompromat as "available for blackmail use if necessary", and that Page was reminded of its existence during the summer, as the Russian connection to the hacks became clear, but that the Kremlin felt able to keep it under wraps because of the campaign's positions on Russia and previous assistance with tracking oligarchs in the US. Call it pre-blackmail. The most plausible explanation right now is that Manafort (and possibly Stone) showed up in March with a nice little deal to expose the "corrupt" Dems, and weren't they going to soften on Russia anyway?
posted by holgate at 8:50 AM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

What will **YOU** give up legislatively and philosophically to induce Democrats to join you?

So the problem here is, this isn't just Democrats. The leftist wing of the Democrats was saying this exact same thing the entire election season -- that they weren't going to join us to oppose Trump because Policies. We had to make concessions to get them. But not the concessions we did make. Those weren't good enough. Etc. Etc. Etc.

And this is where that got us.

So this question -- speaking as a liberal -- is pretty damn disingenuous.

I'm as pro-choice as they come, and I'm half-tempted to create a third party which is anti-choice but otherwise has a Democratic platform just so I can split the fucking vote.Because this is more important than policies. We need to unite so that there is a freaking country for us to fight over.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 8:52 AM on March 4, 2017 [12 favorites]

Here's my question for people more knowledgeable in the succession process in the USA, what happens if the campaign infrastructure is shown to have been fully complicit with the Russia allegations?

I think they just keep going down the order of succession until they get to someone who hasn't been impeached. I think that the assumption is that at some point they'll get to someone who wasn't in on it. If Ryan, Hatch and the entire cabinet are shown to be involved, then I guess that Congress legislates a new order of succession. This is all really, really unlikely, though.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:52 AM on March 4, 2017

The plausible explanation is that 45 agreed to change foreign policy in exchange for a foreign agent committing a crime on his behalf in order to influence the election.

That is treasonous. In spirit, if not in the narrow constitutional definition, but I have a feeling that's because no one in their right might foresaw something like this, and we aren't legally at war with Russia.

Yet.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:54 AM on March 4, 2017 [17 favorites]

I just have a feeling that Never Trump will be displaying its "Mission Accomplished" banner as soon as Trump is out of the picture while the rest of us are still living under an authoritarian, right-wing government.

I agree. But to return to the imperfect WWII analogy, teaming up with Stalin to defeat Hitler worked. And then we can focus on beating Stalin. Hitler is the hot war, Stalin is the Cold War. We'll return to that once the hot war is won. We've always been at war with E̶a̶s̶t̶a̶s̶i̶a̶ Republicans.
posted by chris24 at 8:54 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

corb like Dems are trying to charge a price for lifeboats off the Titanic. I mean, maybe that's not how it's meant, but that's how it comes off. I think this ties in a little with what chris24 said just above.

To an extent you're right. We are.

Because your Party is what got us here. Not ours, yours. If it hadn't been for the Republican Party going full bore Southern Strategy and joyfully embracing and making room for the racists and bigots and hateful scum of the Earth, we would never have been in a position for Trump to exist.

So yes, I think it's quite reasonable of us to expect that we will exact, as price for our cooperation, the cleansing of the Republican Party. If you won't go for that, then why should we let you make the emergency landing and keep your Party intact?

In the other thread I said that with Trump's election we on the left are all accelerationists, like it or not. And we are. Your Party, the Republican Party, is bringing ruin to the nation. If you won't fix it on your end, then the only thing for us on the left to do is help burn your Party to the ground and hope that what rises from the ashes isn't so evil and dangerous.

Simply getting rid of Trump doesn't solve the core problem. If we get rid of Trump but otherwise leave the Republican Party, and American conservatism, unchanged then all we've done is kick the can down the road a bit. We'd be leaving the framework in place for the next Trump, a smarter, more able Trump, to be even worse.

From a cold blooded point of view, its better to abandon sensible Republican people like you than to help you save a dangerous and sick Party.

As long as your goal is "save the Republican Party as it is and oust Trump" than we aren't even allies of convenience. Because yes, Trump is bad. But the system, the Party apparatus, the web of hate radio and Republicans enabling the worst in America and all that, is what I see as the bigger, more threatening, problem.

There has to be an opposition party, I can even (in a very reluctant sort of way) see the need for philosophic conservatism. But that's not the Republican Party as it exists. Without a purge, without a cleansing, without an admission of guilt and repentance, why should I help you keep the Republican Party alive?

What's in it for me?
posted by sotonohito at 8:55 AM on March 4, 2017 [153 favorites]

If we get rid of Trump but otherwise leave the Republican Party, and American conservatism, unchanged then all we've done is kick the can down the road a bit. We'd be leaving the framework in place for the next Trump, a smarter, more able Trump, to be even worse

Goddamn I wish this weren't true. But yeah. Trump isn't the problem. The brainwashed, bigoted, authoritarian Republican base is the problem. I don't know what to do about that.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:58 AM on March 4, 2017 [52 favorites]

I'm as pro-choice as they come, and I'm half-tempted to create a third party which is anti-choice but otherwise has a Democratic platform just so I can split the fucking vote.Because this is more important than policies.

74% of Democrats say abortion should be legal in all or most cases; 60% of independents say abortion should be legal in all or most cases. Among moderate and liberal Republicans 55% say abortion should be legal, while 42% say it should be illegal. 57% of men and 57% of women say it should be legal in all or most cases. Among adults under age 30, 61% say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, as do majorities of adults in their 30s and 40s (58%) , those in their 50s and early 60s (55%) and those who are ages 65 and older (54%). Majorities of both black (62%) and white (58%) U.S. adults say abortion should be legal in all or most cases. Among Hispanics, opinion is evenly split: 48% say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 49% say it should be illegal.

The womens march was explicitly pro choice and was extremely successful.

Yes, there are people who are single-issue voters against abortion. But most people are pro choice.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:58 AM on March 4, 2017 [70 favorites]

If you won't go for that, then why should we let you make the emergency landing and keep your Party intact?

Because our country will die, not merely their party.
posted by sallybrown at 8:59 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

Maxine Waters says that young people caller her Aunty Maxine. "I embrace that, and I love that." (video)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:59 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

So the Trumpies are having their big Spirit of America rallies. Here's video of the one in Des Moines. Here's a picture of the Women's March at the same site.

Do you think Trump will claim his rally got more people?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:59 AM on March 4, 2017 [13 favorites]

In the other thread I said that with Trump's election we on the left are all accelerationists, like it or not. And we are. Your Party, the Republican Party, is bringing ruin to the nation. If you won't fix it on your end, then the only thing for us on the left to do is help burn your Party to the ground and hope that what rises from the ashes isn't so evil and dangerous.

The GOP has spent the last forty-odd years diving down the fascist rabbithole, a foot at a time, and have gone far enough that the appropriate method of dealing with the party is denazification. If you value antifascism at all, on any level, the Republican Party has to go.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:02 AM on March 4, 2017 [21 favorites]

Because our country will die, not merely their party.

tens of millions of people voted for a total idiot for president

stick a fork in us, we're done
posted by pyramid termite at 9:03 AM on March 4, 2017 [10 favorites]

Here's video of the one in Des Moines

How far do you have to skip forwards to to see the rally?
posted by Artw at 9:04 AM on March 4, 2017 [18 favorites]

i've said it before, but i'll say it again - i'm afraid the question isn't whether fascism will win but what kind of fascism and for whom?

my belief is the corporate power structure will eventually step in to prevent trump and the republicans from screwing up the country - the problem being, they won't allow US to have a voice in the government, either

the simple truth is what the right is trying to do is going to be very bad for business and it's business that will put it down
posted by pyramid termite at 9:07 AM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

sallybrown Because our country will die, not merely their party.

If I agreed with you, then it would seem that the people charging a price for lifeboats off the Titanic are the Republicans.

You appear to be arguing that they're saying, in essence, "Let us continue with the policies that brought us Trump, let us continue to harbor the racists, the misogynists, the bigots of all stripes and embolden and nourish them, or else we'll bring down the country rather than oust Trump."

I also disagree with your core premise. I believe that the country will die if the Republican Party continues unchanged, with or without Trump. Get rid of him without burning out the rot that produced him and all we do is set ourselves up for a smarter, competent, Trump.

To make an analogy, we've got a burning trash can, and sure that's bad. But there's a guy pumping gasoline all over the carpet, if we don't stop him then the fire in the trash can isn't all that big a deal, you know?
posted by sotonohito at 9:07 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

What's in it for me?

The fucking country.

Right now, Democrats are in the minority in the House and Senate. We're not going to gain much (at all) in the Senate, and even a massive Democratic turn-out isn't going to be enough to help us out in most states. If a bunch of Republicans are willing to hold their noses and vote for Democrats (however unenthusiastically) in 2018, I, for one, am not going to object.

As a side note, I think a lot of this assumes that people determine their ideals and then they determine their party identification. I don't think that's true. I'm seeing several once hardline conservative religious Republicans who flipped because of Trump suddenly reexamining some of their other values and realizing that they're way more liberal than they thought they were. (I don't think they're going to flip on their view of abortion, but I do think that this election put that in perspective.) And maybe they're never going to be leftist-liberal Democrats, but they're in heavily Republican suburbs of Texas, so even relatively conservative Democratic representatives are going to be an improvement.

We're not a democracy. The only person everyone votes for is the president, and even then it's not a majority-rules election. It's entirely possible for someone from Chicago or NYC to be way, way more socially liberal than the Democrat from rural Texas and for us to be in the same party.

It's not what you want, I know. But none of us are getting what we want here. The question isn't what's in it for you. The question is, how long are you willing to wait in order to prolong this standoff?
posted by steady-state strawberry at 9:08 AM on March 4, 2017 [19 favorites]

How far do you have to skip forwards to to see the rally?

Let's just say that this morning there have been several town halls with state legislators that have been better attended than the pro-Trump "rally" at the state capital. Not town halls with Congressional representatives: town halls with state senators and reps. I think I could post a Facebook event that said "hey everyone, come to this intersection at 3:00 today and yell about how Trump is an asshole" and get a better turnout than the Spirit of America rally.

I don't know if it matters at all, but it makes me feel better.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:08 AM on March 4, 2017 [27 favorites]

How far do you have to skip forwards to to see the rally?

you have to skip backwards - about 80 years or so
posted by pyramid termite at 9:08 AM on March 4, 2017 [9 favorites]

CNN: "This did not happen. It is false. Wrong" a former US Official with direct knowledge tells CNN of Trump claim

If this comment isn't from Obama himself I will eat my shoe.
posted by anastasiav at 9:16 AM on March 4, 2017 [42 favorites]

It doesn't matter how righteous your cause is if you can only get 26% of the population to support you, and half of the 24% that oppose you would rather vote for a devil with an R than a saint with a D. There's a fair number of people that really believe the endgame for the Democratic Party is a socialist beehive with a very few queens and drones, and that even feudalism is better than that. If they've got the franchise they'll vote, if not they've got guns and a belief that they're righteous.

It might be time to consider about 500 counties banding together and campaigning to become a few Semiautonomous Regions of the United States.
posted by ridgerunner at 9:17 AM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

Maggie Haberman is the NYT reporter with the most access into Trump's White House. She originally reported the (at the time, humorous) detail that Trump loved the White House phone system:

“These are the most beautiful phones I’ve ever used in my life,” Mr. Trump said in a telephone interview Tuesday evening.

“The world’s most secure system,” he added, laughing. “The words just explode in the air.” What he meant was that no one was listening in and recording his words.

She just liked this tweet from Rolling Stone reporter Tim Dickinson "Thinking again about Trump's love of white house phones that @maggieNYT wrote about" and then she tweeted:

Trump was known for years to tape calls in his own offices. And during campaign, staffers fretted their offices were bugged.

This is the prism through which he approaches the concept of taping and presidential power.

Is he stupid enough to be making White House tapes after what happened to Nixon? If so, someone would have to help him set that up, no?
posted by sallybrown at 9:18 AM on March 4, 2017 [17 favorites]

You'd think they could hard-wire a proxy into that Samsung of his and redirect everything througha 24/7 desk with people who can shove a 'Twitter over capacity' error back at him when he goes doolally tap...
posted by Devonian at 9:21 AM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

i've been looking over today's tweetstorm by trump and his ludicrous accusations against obama - i don't agree that he is totally demented or non-scheming in what he is doing - i think that in order to head off any possible congressional investigation of his administration or his campaign, he's trying to inspire congress to investigate obama and clinton instead

the idea that this is probably going to backfire horrifically hasn't occurred to him, though
posted by pyramid termite at 9:22 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

>my belief is the corporate power structure will eventually step in to prevent trump and the republicans from screwing up the country

Okay, so Exxon stands to make billions of dollars if they can make the sanctions against Russia go away. Our Secretary of State is the CEO of Exxon. Notice that I do not bother to say 'former CEO'.

It seems likely to me that Putin has said to these guys, 'Look, get rid of these sanctions, and maybe look the other way while I invade a few countries, and I'll make sure your business deals go through. You can make a lot of money, and we can all get what we want.'

Trump has said that he's bored with NATO because it's not run enough like a protection racket, and he doesn't see what's in it for him.

What's in it for all of us, it seems to me, is maintaining a balance of power in Europe so we don't all die in the nuclear age's first world war. I mean, am I overstating this? I don't know that much about it but these guys aren't subtle and this much doesn't seem like a big leap.

All of which is to say, it looks to me like the corporate power structure is quite happy to destabilize Europe and maybe end civilization, so that a bunch of guys who are ALREADY billionaires can make some more money. This does not fill me with confidence that they will 'step in' and prevent Trump from screwing things up. It seems to me that we are where we are because they already stepped in. I would be extremely happy to have it explained to me why I am completely wrong.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 9:22 AM on March 4, 2017 [21 favorites]

If so, someone would have to help him set that up, no?

2/9/17: Secrecy surrounds White House cybersecurity staff shakeup
posted by MonkeyToes at 9:23 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

To make an analogy, we've got a burning trash can, and sure that's bad. But there's a guy pumping gasoline all over the carpet, if we don't stop him then the fire in the trash can isn't all that big a deal, you know?

I think we just see this differently. Donald Trump with nuclear weapons is the gasoline-covered carpet, and the Republican Party as it currently stands is the trash can fire, in my opinion. I agree both need to be put out, but one absolutely cannot wait and the other can.

Believe me, I will never forget what brought us here. If we manage to get Trump out of office, for the rest of my life I won't vote for a single person who endorsed or enabled Trump (and that includes Mitt Romney).
posted by sallybrown at 9:23 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

If we manage to get Trump out of office, for the rest of my life I won't vote for a single person who endorsed or enabled Trump

If we get out of this, I will devote myself to making enough money to hire people to follow every single one of those quisling Vichy fucks around shouting "SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!" for the rest of their ill-begotten lives.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:26 AM on March 4, 2017 [32 favorites]

Republicans have been fucking the metaphorical goat at least since Nixon. The only difference in this election seems to be how many people seemed happy to admit publicly to fucking the goat. Any Republican opposition to Trump amounts to a desire to go back to fucking the goat in private; they still want to do it, but they don't want to be called goat fuckers.

But now that it's out there, guys, if you don't want to be known as a goat fucker, you're gonna have to put down the fucking goat.
posted by logicpunk at 9:28 AM on March 4, 2017 [44 favorites]

i don't agree that he is totally demented or non-scheming in what he is doing - i think that in order to head off any possible congressional investigation of his administration or his campaign, he's trying to inspire congress to investigate obama and clinton instead

Why not both scheming and nuts? Just like his tweets yesterday on Schumer and Pelosi, he's intellectually/sanity-limited to the "I'm rubber you're glue" school of rhetoric.
posted by chris24 at 9:28 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

Guys, he's not smart, except in the way that a specialized predator is smart. His talent for emotional manipulation and abuse does not generalize.

I guess the corollary is something along the lines of, you don't fight a shark in the water; you bait the dumb, dead-eyed thing.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:31 AM on March 4, 2017 [22 favorites]

I cannot imagine that there is a single career civil servant in DC who is anything but utterly, totally horrified by Trump. And I say that as someone who grew up in DC surrounded by career civil servants. Those folks value competence and expertise. Trump is the antithesis of everything they stand for.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm a career civil servant, although not in DC. There are absolutely career civil servants entirely in the tank for Trump. Case in point: one of my coworkers (a 40-year federal employee) was a Trump delegate in a neighboring state, and answered his office phone "Trump HQ West" until someone complained about the gross Hatch Act violation.

"Fuck you, I got mine" is not restricted to those in the private sector.

(Also, he's such a racist he won't go to the closest coffee shop because it's owned by an immigrant family and the wife wears a headscarf.)
posted by suelac at 9:32 AM on March 4, 2017 [35 favorites]

From the Feb 9th article linked above:
The chief information security officer for the White House's Executive Office of the President has been removed from his position, sources have confirmed.

Cory Louie was appointed to the position by former President Obama in 2015, charged with keeping safe the staff closest to the president -- including the president himself -- from cyber-threats posed by hackers and nation-state attackers.

But circumstances surrounding his departure, weeks after President Donald Trump took office, remain unclear.

It's thought he was either fired or asked to resign last Thursday evening, and he was escorted out from his office in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building across the street from the West Wing.

. . .

Louie remained on after the transition of power to the Trump administration, while a number of other key senior staff vacated their positions.

Meanwhile, Trump was given a new smartphone, a similar lock-down device that his predecessor had, but reportedly also uses his old, outdated Samsung Galaxy phone to tweet -- stirring frustration and mockery alike from security experts.

Former senior IT and cybersecurity staff, including former Federal CISO Gregory Touhill, former Federal Chief Information Officer Tony Scott, and former White House IT Director David Recordon, all resigned their positions when Obama left office.

It's not known if Louie's vacated position was immediately filled.

Trump admin rolling their own cyber. What could possib-bly go wrong?
posted by petebest at 9:32 AM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

I'm sticking with the theory that he has no interiority whatsoever - there isn't any there there, just inputs and outputs. This turns out to be remarkably effective with a segment of the population right now for reasons that are perplexing and horrifying.
posted by Artw at 9:34 AM on March 4, 2017 [27 favorites]

It seems likely to me that Putin has said to these guys, 'Look, get rid of these sanctions, and maybe look the other way while I invade a few countries, and I'll make sure your business deals go through. You can make a lot of money, and we can all get what we want.'

I think there's two things at play from a Russian/Putin perspective. Either plan (a), that you've outlined above, or plan (b):

-destabilize/delegitimize the American government (and other Eurpoean governments) through the revelations of foreign interference in the elections such that when Russia makes another military move, NATO countries are too embrolied in political scandal to mount an effective response.

Either outcome works from their perspective - either these governments are compromised and acting in alignment with their desired outcomes or they are dysfunctional and unable to oppose those outcomes.
posted by nubs at 9:34 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

corb Dems are trying to charge a price for lifeboats off the Titanic.

Please understand that from the other side, it looks like you're trying to charge a price for lifeboats too. Furthermore, given the extreme scarcity of NeverTrump elected Republicans, we're not really sure you even have any lifeboats to sell.

But setting rhetorical missteps aside, and assuming -- I think accurately -- that everybody here is willing to rationally negotiate once we've achieved a world in which that's meaningful, I think there is a Republican strategy that could help, and that a lot of Democrats would sign up for.

For at least the next election or two, we're all single issue voters. If, in the many lean-right districts with no meaningful Democratic presence, you run primary candidates on a "take the Republican party back from the crazies" platform, with an appeal to conservative Democrats to help restore a proper loyal opposition, you might just get enough help to win those primaries. You'll have to shift at least far enough left to avoid actively repelling people, but that just means "abortion is not my top priority," "I take science seriously," "I accept the general framework of the New Deal/Great Society," and "I accept the general framework of UN/NATO aligned diplomacy."

If you can't get that far left, I'm not sure what to tell you. Those are pretty popular positions even amongst Republicans.
posted by dirge at 9:35 AM on March 4, 2017 [59 favorites]

The state-level situation in Kansas is a microcosm here. It's a red red red state. In many districts, the GOP primaries are the election. The GOP base dictates the character of state government on its own. The state got exactly the ALEC-funded ideological purists the base wanted, and it has proven the best advert for relocating to Missouri in living memory. You'd think there'd be a reckoning.

But Brownback got re-elected. Only then did you start to see some pushback from old-school KS Republicans who like a bit of ag-subsidy socialism. They had to work that shit out between themselves.
posted by holgate at 9:35 AM on March 4, 2017 [16 favorites]

I would be extremely happy to have it explained to me why I am completely wrong.

the oil industry isn't the entire system - and they have a tendency to play ball with whoever is in power (and visa versa)

the simple truth is that the kind of national conflict we're seeing over various issues is bad for business - allowing abortions, trans* bathrooms and gay marriages costs corporate america very little, having a bunch of people argue and boycott about it is much worse

the idea of doing away with government regulations is not one the corporate structure really wants - the major purpose of regulations is to tilt the playing field so the corporations can benefit from them

and immigration? - who benefits from the current situation most and why is it that there's never any serious effort made to prosecute those who hire undocumented workers? - who benefits most from open trade and low border taxes?

trump's whole program is something a great many people in the u s called for - in the 1970s when it acutally might have changed something - it's far too late to fix - it's the biggest con game that's ever been run on this country and it's pissing off a lot of people with a lot of power

trump is going to be told to back down or he's going to get dealt with

---

on preview -

But now that it's out there, guys, if you don't want to be known as a goat fucker, you're gonna have to put down the fucking goat.

but but but THE GOAT LIKES IT!!!
posted by pyramid termite at 9:36 AM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

I cannot imagine that there is a single career civil servant in DC who is anything but utterly, totally horrified by Trump.

Last decade, I knew a high-ranking FBI official in DC who would totally be in the tank for Trump these days.
posted by Coventry at 9:36 AM on March 4, 2017

Corb, 10:21:

Without getting into a long argument about Whether The Democrats Are Right, I'm going to say that in a sense, it doesn't matter how right they are if they're moving so fast the rest of the country, minus the crazies, won't follow. The way a country as large as ours works is that on some things, a rough consensus does need to be sought. Even if that consensus isn't what you want, even if you feel that consensus is years behind where you want it to be. You can't make a healthy country by legislating for only - let's generously say 52% of it.

Whenever my mom tries this "moving too fast" thing on me I like to ask "moving too fast how?" What, specifically, is actually moving too fast, and for whom? There's a tendency to rely on land (look at all this red on the map) and epistemic closure (all of my friends and everybody at the place I get my hair done, or whatever). It's an appeal to a "Real American" majority that doesn't exist in the way people believe. Is it about abortion? That's not moving too fast, it moved a long time ago and it's not moving back (and a majority doesn't want it to move back). Is it about health care? That took years. Is it about marriage equality? Even that took a couple generations, but it's supported by a majority nationwide. What moved too fast?

I have this argument with my mom all the time (or I did, when I was still talking to her). Claiming things are moving too fast sounds really disingenuous coming from a party that pushed everything hard to the right every chance it got while Democrats were happy to try to find consensus and compromise. To name one really famous example, welfare reform came under a Democratic president because Democrats compromised with Republicans. When, in the past 30 years, have Republicans compromised with Democrats? It's not something Republicans do anymore, and they lie about it (cf. the way they claim Obamacare was forced through in secret backroom deals [like they're actually trying to do now with the "replacement" they may or may not actually be working on] when, in fact, the Democrats tried to engage Republicans throughout the yearlong process of drafting the law and they didn't want to be seen as having any part of it).

And if you want to talk about moving to fast, see the Trump administration and how the GOP Congress is going along with it. How quickly can they gut every agency? Is that the Democrats moving too fast?

and 10:31:

What I want people to ask is, "How could I talk to Evan McMullin, or Ana Navarro? What compromise could I find with reasonable, honorable, opposition?"

To many Republicans these days, "compromise" means "I get exactly what I want and you move to meet me" not "I'll meet you in the middle." And now with people like Cruz and the House Freedom Caucus, even that sort of compromise is sometimes seen as consorting with the enemy. And as many people have pointed out, the McMullins and Navarros aren't in office (and based on the pattern established over the past 30 years they might not compromise in the non-Republican sense even if they were in office). I'm a former Republican, and then a RINO (because I didn't think compromise was evil), and now I don't want to have anything to do with those hardliners so I'm not in the party at all.

If people like that were in power, maybe I'd revisit that issue, but I don't see the Democrats as the ones who need to change on this. What the Democrats are (finally) doing is just aping the Republican playbook. Is using your own party's tactics against you somehow moving too fast?
posted by fedward at 9:37 AM on March 4, 2017 [84 favorites]

i don't agree that he is totally demented or non-scheming in what he is doing

Well, this morning I embarrassed myself on twitter after djt's flurry of "No, HE's a criminal" tweets by falling for a parody post that was full-on Kubrickian krazy. It rattled me, as if I'm going crazy because everything is crazy. But it's like, what is NOT believable about what he might say/do anymore.
posted by NorthernLite at 9:38 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

You can't make a healthy country by legislating for only - let's generously say 52% of it.

and yet the republicans have been trying to make a healthy country by legislating for only 1%
posted by pyramid termite at 9:40 AM on March 4, 2017 [34 favorites]

I'm sticking with the theory that he has no interiority whatsoever - there isn't any there there, just inputs and outputs.

Trump as philosophical zombie - it checks out
posted by thelonius at 9:41 AM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

His biggest most guarded secret in life is that he's in hock to the Russians, a thing that literally everyone and their dog knows.
posted by Artw at 9:43 AM on March 4, 2017 [11 favorites]

David Fahrenthold hasn't published an article since February 13th. What are you working on, old pal?
posted by sallybrown at 9:43 AM on March 4, 2017 [27 favorites]

Presidential historian and author:

@JoshuaMZeitz
Only time a sitting POTUS showed this level of mental incapacity was Nixon, talking to the portraits in the WH. But he was drinking heavily.

More evidence for the barely literate crowd:

@HeerJeet
The misspelling of "tapp" is from Trump seeing "wiretapping" and assuming "tapp" rather than "tap" was proper. Mistake of a non-reader.

And background on his pre-rant mindset:

@costareports
Trump left WH in a fury on Friday, fuming about Sessions's recusal and telling aides that Sessions shouldn't have recused himself...
posted by chris24 at 9:44 AM on March 4, 2017 [35 favorites]

And getting this "well you have to accept socialism or we won't take you in this fight" just feels like an opportunistic slap in the face - like Dems are trying to charge a price for lifeboats off the Titanic. I mean, maybe that's not how it's meant, but that's how it comes off.

We're simply asking you not to do the stuff that got the fucking fascists here in the first place. That you see that as too high a price to pay because "fuck you and your unicorn candy" is part and parcel of a sick kind of tribalism--the same tribalism conservatives will turn around and accuse the left of in an instant--is the problem. What isn't a problem is that we don't want to sign up for the bullshit proto-fascism I mentioned in my second paragraph above, which conservatives apparently think is fair trade.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:45 AM on March 4, 2017 [27 favorites]

Oh look! I'm sure you'll all be shocked, shocked that there's no US steel for the Keystone Pipeline. Per Trump's own words, I guess it means we have to stop construction, right??
posted by TwoStride at 9:46 AM on March 4, 2017 [19 favorites]

If you want to address the economic anxiety we've heard so much about the there's no way of doing that without getting just a little bit socialist.
posted by Artw at 9:48 AM on March 4, 2017 [9 favorites]

(Fascism is a placebo, not a solution)
posted by Artw at 9:48 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

I mean, Bob H. Christ...how is it so fucking difficult to give up Jim Crow, forcing LGBTQ people into poverty and suicide, back-alley abortions, and starving children physically and mentally, without complaining every step of the way?
posted by zombieflanders at 9:50 AM on March 4, 2017 [74 favorites]

One thing that's been kicking around in my head for a while is that in a fundamental way Trump, his supporters, even the smarter Republican politicians, seem to have fallen into the trap of believing that the current world order is stable, inevitable, and that they can fuck with it with impunity.

They're forgetting that the reason we haven't had any major wars in the past 70 years [1] is because of huge amounts of very hard work, bizarre and implausible diplomatic lies (the "One China" policy bullshit, for example) that no one actually believes but which work anyway, and so on.

As a result we've got Trump stomping around like a bull in a china shop, casually talking about shattering the agreements, delicate balancing acts, and imaginative fictions that have kept us from atomic war, or even large scale conventional war, for 70 years.

It only takes a generation for something to become normal, and we've had three generations now foolishly thinking that peace, prosperity, and a planetary improvement in quality of life is normal. So they don't panic when they see Trump casually dismantling the whole elaborate structure of lies we called the One China Policy. They don't panic when they see Trump casually talking about dismantling NATO, or ending the policy of nuclear non-proliferation, or any of the other hard, difficult, complex, and messy bits of diplomacy that have kept the "normal" situation of peace and prosperity going.

I fear greatly that because this decidedly abnormal situation has persisted for so long that people will watch the structures that allowed it to exist be demolished with only mild concern rather than the sort of terrified panic that should have been bringing us to having Egypt level, shut down the entire country and overthrow the government peaceably, style protests.

And once Trump has succeeded in destroying that ever so fragile framework of diplomacy, lies, and unspoken agreements that have kept the peace for 70 years, I think it's going to take us a World War level conflict before we can rebuild them.

Even the elected Republicans, the ones who are smart, educated, and know damn well that the long peace we've had is historically abnormal, have had that peace their whole lives and suffer from the comforting delusion that it really is normal. That **of course** there won't be major wars.

And then there's the Steve Bannons who are openly, self admittedly, longing for a major war.

Coupled with the upcoming economic shift, and the inevitable conflict that will bring, and the mass migrations and humanitarian crises that climate change will bring, I see Trump's dismantling of the international order as sort of a third horseman of the Apocalypse.

[1] And yes, I'm well aware of all the minor wars the US has started. But none of those hold a candle to WWII, WWI, the 30 Years War, and so on.
posted by sotonohito at 9:51 AM on March 4, 2017 [95 favorites]

I mean, Bob H. Christ...how is it so fucking difficult to give up Jim Crow, forcing LGBTQ people into poverty and suicide, back-alley abortions, and starving children physically and mentally, without complaining every step of the way?

tl;dr: Because God said every man fucks one woman, has two kids, and takes responsibility.
posted by Talez at 9:52 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

Of course these days "socialism" encompasses pretty much having a functioning government that does things for the people in any way, and collects taxes for any purpose other than the military or Trump Tower.
posted by Artw at 9:52 AM on March 4, 2017 [22 favorites]

Ursula Le Guin calls trump a 'media golem'.
posted by dhruva at 9:53 AM on March 4, 2017 [23 favorites]

tl;dr: Because God said every man fucks one woman, has two kids, and takes responsibility.

I'm not even talking about the Bible-thumpers though, I'm talking about conservatives that want to be seen as reasonable and moderate instead of enabling the extremists.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:53 AM on March 4, 2017

Only time a sitting POTUS showed this level of mental incapacity was Nixon, talking to the portraits in the WH.

There was the time William McKinley was physically dying for a week or so, but I'd say it's close.
posted by saturday_morning at 9:55 AM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

Statement from Kevin Lewis on behalf of Barack Obama
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:55 AM on March 4, 2017 [36 favorites]

Fascism is a placebo

Seems more meth-y, tbh.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:56 AM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

Without getting into a long argument about Whether The Democrats Are Right, I'm going to say that in a sense, it doesn't matter how right they are if they're moving so fast the rest of the country, minus the crazies, won't follow. The way a country as large as ours works is that on some things, a rough consensus does need to be sought. Even if that consensus isn't what you want, even if you feel that consensus is years behind where you want it to be. You can't make a healthy country by legislating for only - let's generously say 52% of it.

My father has made "Now is not the time for human rights due to economic concerns" argument since I was old enough to understand them. I'm 50 now.
posted by srboisvert at 9:57 AM on March 4, 2017 [64 favorites]

One of the weirdest things about this to me is that he thought that his accusations about wiretapping were so serious that he, uh, tweeted about Arnold Schwarzenegger leaving The Apprentice an hour later.

It's almost like he thinks they both have the same weight, or something.
posted by flatluigi at 10:02 AM on March 4, 2017 [29 favorites]

Trump is a symptom. The disease is Republicanism. Not to say that conservatism is inherently evil. Fiscal and moral conservatism doesn't have to be racist and misogynistic, but the form it has morphed into in the U.S. is. And combined with a paranoid Know-Nothing allergy to facts and reality, it's compromised pretty much the whole party. So while we need to beat the fever Trump represents to save the body, the next step has to be getting rid of the abhorrent manifestation of conservatism that has taken root here.
posted by chris24 at 10:03 AM on March 4, 2017 [51 favorites]

Trump as philosophical zombie - it checks out

Or Trump as the Presidential version of Searle's Chinese Room, except the person inside can't quite understand the instructions and the translation materials.
posted by mubba at 10:03 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

and yet the republicans have been trying to make a healthy country by legislating for only 1%

Let's be generous and extend that. What's changed is that everything's flattened out, so that largely the same GOP with the same ideological inputs is operating on every level from school board to Congress. They're not equally distributed, but there's a national support and funding network for someone who wants to Tea Party up their school district and rail against perceived enemies, and much less of one for a small-c conservative who is mindful of local circumstances and wants to find points of collaboration. The party of states' rights routinely introduces [INSERT STATE NAME HERE] bills into state legislatures. A decentralised political infrastructure overlaid with centralised structures of power and influence is fundamentally unstable.
posted by holgate at 10:06 AM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

Many things need to happen for the world to survive this crisis. People within the Republican Party need to undermine it. I don't have any taste for that work or ability to perform it, so I'm glad there's other people out there doing it. I don't think it's possible to fix the Republican Party in any meaningful way — it's obvious to everyone that inherently oppressive institution at this point, and I don't think it's possible to pervert that institution toward doing good. But all faction struggles within the Republican Party, even the doomed ones, work to weaken the party. And weakening the Republican Party is a good thing.

Other people need to disrupt the Democratic Party. Because I am so naive, I think it may be possible to hijack the Democratic Party from below and, at least in part, pervert it toward doing good. This is despite the Democratic Party leadership's open hostility to the left.

sidebar: Anyone who thinks that the Democratic Party is pushing socialism has never met the Democratic Party.

Other people need to get in the streets and physically confront fascists, in order to make them scared to express their views in public. Other people need to lay the groundwork for establishing alternate methods for real democracy instead of bourgeois electoral politics. Because I am kind of bad at things, and because I run my mouth too much, it's probably for the best if I don't try to get too involved in that myself. But establishing a real threat of genuine widespread insurrection is necessary — even though we likely won't get to seize the means of production, end the rule of the parasitical rich, and thereby establish conditions allowing for genuine human freedom any time soon.

While we're all out doing our various corners of the work that needs to be done, we need to keep a tight focus on what that work is, rather than on what values our fellow workers hold. Values are abstract and ultimately irrelevant, except insofar as they lead to action. History won't care about the values you held, but didn't act on. It will care about what you actually did. We can support people working to rally opposition to fascism from inside the Republican Party and also support people who mask up and punch nazis, without necessarily having to share all the values of all of our fellow opponents of fascism.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:06 AM on March 4, 2017 [23 favorites]

Trump as philosophical zombie - it checks out

But semi-seriously, if we think he's a p-zombie because of how he behaves, then he isn't behaving identically to a self-aware person, then he isn't a p-zombie.

He's just an asshole.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:07 AM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

So I guess we have confirmation that Ivanka usually has control of the phone
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:07 AM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

sidebar: Anyone who thinks that the Democratic Party is pushing socialism has never met the Democratic Party

Heh. Yeah - big chunks of the ademocratic party are exactly what corb describes already and look how far that has gotten anybody.
posted by Artw at 10:08 AM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

@HeerJeet
The misspelling of "tapp" is from Trump seeing "wiretapping" and assuming "tapp" rather than "tap" was proper. Mistake of a non-reader.

The extra "p" is for extra pee...
posted by neroli at 10:10 AM on March 4, 2017 [15 favorites]

Marx, Lenin, Manchin

checks out
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:11 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

>my belief is the corporate power structure will eventually step in to prevent trump and the republicans from screwing up the country

Yeah, I thought this, too, until election night. I mean, I was desperately clinging to that hope, tbh. But that was the old new world order, and no one is going to give Trump the Ned Beatty speech from Network. The primal forces of nature found an idiot puppet in Trumo.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:11 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

The piss party is the part of the Russia story I believe least, but we always keep coming back to it, don't we? Must be all the leaks.
posted by Artw at 10:12 AM on March 4, 2017 [9 favorites]

Pro- and Anti-Choice License Plates May Be Coming to Two New States (Slate, March 1, 2017)

In Nebraska on Tuesday, state senators voted 37- 7 to advance a bill that would establish “Choose Life” license plates in the state. In California, state senator Hannah-Beth Jackson, a Democrat from Santa Barbara, has proposed a bill that would require the state to offer “California Trusts Women” plates.

If the California bill passes, it would join Virginia as one of the rare states that offer pro-choice license plates. There are currently 29 states that offer anti-abortion “Choose Life” plates, in addition to Washington, D.C. These are the plates that look, from a short distance away, like they’re supporting universal pre-K or something, with their crayon scribbles and crude drawing of two smiling kids.

The plates don’t usually generate money for education or contraception access, two things proven to reduce abortion rates, though—15 states with “Choose Life” plates funnel the extra fees required to buy them into anti-choice activist organizations or crisis pregnancy centers. The latter institutions trick women into thinking they’re neutral spaces or abortion providers, only to present misinformation to dissuade women from seeking abortion care elsewhere. Nebraska bill must pass through two more votes, and opponents have said they’re ready to filibuster to block it. But if it goes through, it will establish the rare “Choose Life” license plate that actually raises money for something that helps women: the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program.
...
To get the proposed California plate on cars, advocates will need to get 7,500 California drivers to order “California Trusts Women” plates even if the bill passes. The fees generated by the specialty license plate would go toward the state’s Family Planning, Access, Care, and Treatment program, which covers reproductive health services for low-income women.

posted by filthy light thief at 10:12 AM on March 4, 2017 [11 favorites]

Clinton won the popular vote by almost 3 million running on the most progressive Democratic platform ever. More people support Democratic over Republican positions. The turnout included 55.3% of the voting age population and 60.2% of the voting eligible population. Seems like there's more upside to pursuing people who didn't vote than there is chasing after Republicans.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:13 AM on March 4, 2017 [125 favorites]

Seems like there's more upside to pursuing people who didn't vote than there is chasing after Republicans.

And considering the number of those who have been disenfranchised by aggressive suppression, there is even more reason to go this direction
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:22 AM on March 4, 2017 [24 favorites]

Mashable: Watch this Texas sports anchor elegantly attack transphobic state laws

It's probably an imperfect statement but I think it's meaningful.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:23 AM on March 4, 2017 [36 favorites]

The turnout included 55.3% of the voting age population and 60.2% of the voting eligible population. Seems like there's more upside to pursuing people who didn't vote than there is chasing after Republicans.

Can Millennials Save the Democratic Party?
"Even so, the Millennial influence has been diluted by their relatively low turnout numbers. Final figures for 2016 won’t be available until the Census Bureau produces its report on the election, but the Center for Information and Research on Civil Learning & Engagement at Tufts University, which studies younger voters, estimates that only about half of eligible Millennials voted last year. That’s about the same as their lackluster performance in 2012. In each presidential election since 2000—except for 2008, when turnout spiked—younger voters have comprised a substantially smaller share (from 5 to 7 percentage points) of the actual electorate than they represent in the eligible electorate. By contrast, baby boomers and their elders have consistently comprised a higher share of the actual, as opposed to eligible, electorate."

We need the kids to show up. That's it. Fuck Republicans and fuck compromise.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:25 AM on March 4, 2017 [10 favorites]

"Henry, get down on your knees and pray with me!"

(check the writer credits.)
posted by holgate at 10:25 AM on March 4, 2017 [10 favorites]

Seems like there's more upside to pursuing people who didn't vote than there is chasing after Republicans.

One of these days I really want to see a large poll of non-voters to see how many of them couldn't vote for reasons beyond their control (needing to work, not having the ID or the money to spend on it, other forms of voter suppression) and how many of them just 'decided' not to vote. Way too often, I see an assumption or an implication that nonvoters were lazy or didn't vote because they just 'assumed' what they wanted would happen anyway & it leaves out the years and years of systemic voter suppression and voter manipulation by the government (especially the Republicans).

I mean, Trump's election was the first major election after the Voting Rights Act was gutted because, as John Roberts put it, it 'wasn't necessary anymore.' That article's very much worth reading if you're unaware of just how much effort towards voter suppression was put in place after that decision.
posted by flatluigi at 10:25 AM on March 4, 2017 [58 favorites]

So I guess we have confirmation that Ivanka usually has control of the phone

I may be misreading this, but I think Maggie Haberman is suggesting here that Jared Kushner prompted this morning's tweet-fest.

She responds to the tweet "Seven Trump tweets in two hours. It must be Saturday. Waiting for sunset and Jared" with "Jared is only senior adviser with him right now in Florida. Better off waiting for Trump to observe Shabbas himself"

Here's the question - who got Trump worked up about this this morning pre-tweets?

Not "what" (the Breitbart story) but "who" - Jared.
posted by sallybrown at 10:26 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

considering the number of those who have been disenfranchised by aggressive suppression

Which, as much as they keep quiet about it, is also supported by the so-called "reasonable" conservatives, making any claims of fighting fascism extremely hollow.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:27 AM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

Is this "economic harm" thing an already existing legal concept?

If I remember correctly that term was used in the mid-90's to help define "ecological terrorism" (another particularly galling subject all on it's own)
posted by Golem XIV at

As of 2013, it was still part of the FBI's follow up questions, if you are a United States Citizen advocating that a company follow the Clean Water Act, and the company reports you to Homeland Security for reporting their illegal dumping..

The first question the FBI asks is "Are you a terrorist?" The second question is "Do you intend economic harm to this company?"
posted by eustatic at 10:28 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

Mashable: Watch this Texas sports anchor elegantly attack transphobic state laws

It's probably an imperfect statement but I think it's meaningful.

That was pretty damn perfect. He literally used his privilege in the world to tell other people with similar privileges that it's not their place to do anything besides empathize with trans people.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:30 AM on March 4, 2017 [16 favorites]

I think Maggie Haberman is suggesting here that Jared Kushner prompted this morning's tweet-fest.

So they're both up in their (non-existent) bathrobes at 5am?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:31 AM on March 4, 2017

Jared is celebrating Shabbos.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:33 AM on March 4, 2017

Does Shabbos prevent Jared from talking to Trump like "poor poor you, you are so mistreated, it's bad and sick how these people are out to get you and Obama spied on you" etc? The Breitbart story came out well before sunset yesterday.
posted by sallybrown at 10:35 AM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

Republican strategist Steve Schmidt on Twitter: I wonder what would happen to the captain of The Aircraft carrier POTUS visited if he woke up this morning and began crazy tweeting ?? Answer is he would be relieved so fast it would make your head spin
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:35 AM on March 4, 2017 [38 favorites]

Can Millennials Save the Democratic Party?

This article wasn't posted while I was writing my comment above, but it does orbit around the trap that just about every article I've seen nowadays about ~Millennials~ where it doesn't actually understand how goddamn poor most young people these days are. People write articles asking why Millennials aren't buying houses, aren't buying cars, aren't fucking buying diamonds when the easy answer is staring them in the face -- they don't have the money and are, in many cases, under crippling debt that will prevent them from even considering large purchases in the future.

Now, why aren't young people voting when many of them are poor and, in many places in the US, being able to vote can require spending several hundreds of dollars on getting your papers and forms of ID because of laws passed to actively make it harder for the poor and for minorities to vote? Who knows, I guess.
posted by flatluigi at 10:38 AM on March 4, 2017 [59 favorites]

Young people aren't refraining from voting because they don't have ID and can't afford it, they're not voting because young people pretty much never vote at the same rate as older people. It's not a change.

That isn't to say that we shouldn't make it easier for everyone to vote. But young people are not being particularly disenfranchised compared to anyone else. They just don't vote. Because reasons. I didn't vote in the first Presidential election I was eligible for either, and I can't really say way. The same litany of reasons as every other 19 year old I guess.
posted by Justinian at 10:44 AM on March 4, 2017 [12 favorites]

Now, why aren't young people voting when many of them are poor and, in many places in the US, being able to vote can require spending several hundreds of dollars on getting your papers and forms of ID because of laws passed to actively make it harder for the poor and for minorities to vote?

Probably a lot of truth to this, but also youth turnout has never been good or reliable, it's not a new problem. Voting access, voter education, and registration should be the bulk of our focus as Democrats or even anti-fascists. It's the most concrete step a regular person on the ground can take to contribute.

We don't need to understand or empathize or even care about Trump voters. We need to get more people to show up, because that's all it will take to save America. Get a few hundred thousand more people to care, and in a position to turn up where caring can matter.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:46 AM on March 4, 2017 [16 favorites]

Does Shabbos prevent Jared from talking to Trump like "poor poor you, you are so mistreated, it's bad and sick how these people are out to get you and Obama spied on you" etc?

It prevents him from driving or using the phone or any other electronic devices. If he happened to be at the White House, or if Trump happened to visit him, then he could egg Trump on.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:47 AM on March 4, 2017

As of 2013, it was still part of the FBI's follow up questions, if you are a United States Citizen advocating that a company follow the Clean Water Act, and the company reports you to Homeland Security for reporting their illegal dumping..

The first question the FBI asks is "Are you a terrorist?" The second question is "Do you intend economic harm to this company?"

If you agree that the company should suffer for having broken the law and endangered the health and/or lives of human beings, do they arrest you for terrorism?
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:48 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

@Room 641-A: Damn - that may be the most hopeful and inspiring thing I've seen this week. Thanks for linking that.
posted by mosk at 10:48 AM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

if Trump happened to visit him

Aren't they in Florida together right now?
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:49 AM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

Get a few hundred thousand more people to care, and in a position to turn up where caring can matter.

MI -- Trump's margin of victory: 10,704; votes for Stein: 51,463, for Johnson: 172,136
PA -- 42,292 margin; Stein: 49,941 Johnson: 146,715
WI -- 22,748 margin; Stein: 31,072, Johnson: 106,674

The votes are there.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:49 AM on March 4, 2017 [18 favorites]

Oh god - the lack of bathrobes - did Trump see a weenie and freak out?
posted by Artw at 10:51 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

MI -- Trump's margin of victory: 10,704; votes for Stein: 51,463, for Johnson: 172,136
PA -- 42,292 margin; Stein: 49,941 Johnson: 146,715
WI -- 22,748 margin; Stein: 31,072, Johnson: 106,674

And that's why Stein and the hard left lunatics that voted for her are pieces of shit.

But she'll be fine in her MA home and MD financed 401(k) I guess.

At least they made a statement. Sadly that statement was "I'm a god damned moron".
posted by Talez at 10:52 AM on March 4, 2017 [30 favorites]

Nervous Georgia GOP re-gerrymanders state House to protect vulnerable Republicans
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:52 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

Seems like there's more upside to pursuing people who didn't vote than there is chasing after Republicans.

Concentrating on presidential numbers doesn't make much difference when the Repubs control both houses plus:
"Republicans have total control over 25 states outright and another two where they can override a Democratic governor’s vetoes. These 27 states cover 56 percent of the population. Meanwhile, Democrats have total control outright in a mere six states and veto-proof majorities to override a Republican governor in just two more. These eight Democratic-controlled states add up to only 19 percent of the population, or roughly one-third as much as Republicans control."
The problems are deep seated and aren't going away in just two,years.
posted by ridgerunner at 10:53 AM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

Charles Murray, racist pseudoscientist, author of the Bell Curve, and Steve Bannon's Alfred Rosenberg, faced a warm reception at Middlebury College.

Vermont has a proud history of bee-keeping.

We, the members of the Vermont Beekeepers Association, one of the oldest agricultural groups in Vermont, take a great deal of pride in the honey we harvest. It has rightfully come to be known as a gourmet product.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:56 AM on March 4, 2017 [10 favorites]

I really don't think I was trying to say voter suppression is a new thing and I definitely don't think that should be the conclusion drawn from what I said above.
posted by flatluigi at 10:57 AM on March 4, 2017

‘Go back to your own country,’ shooter tells Kent man before firing.
posted by zachlipton at 10:58 AM on March 4, 2017 [11 favorites]

I hope the SPLC is tracking all of these. Jesus.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:03 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Good god. The "I took a 24 hour sanity break, what'd I miss?" joke just isn't funny anymore.
posted by wallabear at 11:04 AM on March 4, 2017 [11 favorites]

At this point a "sanity break" is just closing your eyes for a minute while the monster creeps closer.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:06 AM on March 4, 2017 [34 favorites]

Concentrating on presidential numbers doesn't make much difference

We are living in a timeline with Betsy DeVos, Ben Carson, and Rex Tillerson on the Cabinet. It does make much difference.
posted by Etrigan at 11:08 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump is the end result of gerrymandering - it removes all defenses against him.
posted by Artw at 11:08 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

I mean, congratulations to Donald for stepping on what could have been a very Jeff Sessions focused SNL tonight.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:08 AM on March 4, 2017 [17 favorites]

‘Go back to your own country,’ shooter tells Kent man before firing.

Probably worth saying that Kent is in Washington; the victim, who is Sikh, is going to survive; and this is a separate incident from the recent murder/ hate crime in Kansas.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:11 AM on March 4, 2017 [35 favorites]

Oh, SNL is new tonight: "Actress Octavia Spencer from "Hidden Figures" hosts; musical guest Father John Misty performs."
posted by Surely This at 11:11 AM on March 4, 2017

Ranting about wire taps is just so Nixonian, and not even regular Nixon, Futurama Nixon. I expect him to start going on about the great taste of Charleston Chew.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 11:11 AM on March 4, 2017 [16 favorites]

Probably worth saying that Kent is in Washington; the victim, who is Sikh, is going to survive; and this is a separate incident from the recent murder/ hate crime in Kansas.

Jesus fuck.
posted by Artw at 11:12 AM on March 4, 2017 [10 favorites]

My Congressman (and hopefully the next junior senator from California!) Ted Lieu:

“Mr. President: If there was a wiretap at Trump Tower, that means a fed judge found probable cause of crime which means you are in deep shit,” Lieu wrote. After providing a link to a Washington Post article on Trump’s tweets and the fallout, Lieu took it a step further.

“Either @realDonaldTrump is paranoid like Nixon, or judge found probable cause of crime for #wiretap. Either way our President is in trouble,” he wrote.

I love his public, IDGAF swears.

That was pretty damn perfect.

Cool. As an imperfect ally I know that sometimes a well-meaning thought isn't as helpful as we'd like.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:14 AM on March 4, 2017 [72 favorites]

At this point a "sanity break" is just closing your eyes for a minute while the monster creeps closer.

"Don't even blink. Blink and you're dead. They are fast, faster than you could believe. Don't turn your back, don't look away, and don't blink." - Doctor Who
posted by Blue Genie at 11:15 AM on March 4, 2017 [16 favorites]

sanity break is imagining being crushed to death in a puppy stampede
posted by poffin boffin at 11:16 AM on March 4, 2017 [27 favorites]

folks i think my sanity is broken enough already
posted by murphy slaw at 11:20 AM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

Lieu is my representative too. This is the first time I've lived in a district where I actually like the Congressperson. It's a weird feeling.
posted by downtohisturtles at 11:21 AM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

Here's just one data point on the subject of millennials voting or not. I have two young adult sons. They vote, but I believe their main motivation is knowing that their mother would be extremely unhappy if they didn't. I suspect that what they really think is that considering climate change and current politics, their generation and following generations (if there are any) are inevitably screwed regardless of how they vote. I may be projecting, though, because I am just so angry and so sad about the whole damn mess we are leaving them.
posted by a fish out of water at 11:24 AM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

Adam Schiff is my rep. Not too shabby.
posted by Justinian at 11:24 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

my read is he's looking for justification to surveil his political opponents.

My take is that this confirms the veracity of certain leaks and the presence of the Russian ambassador at Trump Tower. He's admitting it.
posted by futz at 11:25 AM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

I have no rep at all because Zinke's in the DC deathcult now and the special election hasn't been held yet. It feels pretty good.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:26 AM on March 4, 2017

Statement from Kevin Lewis on behalf of Barack Obama

Funny thing about this statement is that it's also a big middle finger at Priebus for trying to get the FBI to rebut a story for political purposes. It's a great big reminder that there used to be a wall between the Justice Department and the White House when it came to investigations, and this administration has not been honoring that.
posted by zachlipton at 11:26 AM on March 4, 2017 [38 favorites]

Oh, and If I lived two blocks south Lieu would be my rep, fwiw. Los Angeles yay! Which reminds me...

Looks like the haze is going to be coming back to LA.

The air quality improvements have been a result of California's strict standards not the federal ones. We'll be okay. It's the people living in Trumpista hellscapes that have to worry.
posted by Justinian at 11:27 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

I'm still 300 comments behind, but I wanted to address the father being picked up at school by ICE. I live in a town that was rural since the railroad expansion west, but is currently being quickly subsumed by the suburbs of Plano and Dallas. But, until the last year or so, ranchers and farmers were using a lot of migrant labor, and our schools have many things in place to help migrant kids stay in school. It is a given that migratory workers may be undocumented, and documentation isn't necessary for school enrollment.

As a "room mom" I've met a lot of families where English isn't spoken, and our teeny Catholic church does Mass in Spanish on every Mass day. I'm a lapsed Catholic, mostly because I was raised in the Maronite rather than Roman tradition, but I still donate to the church's programs that support local families in need. I tell you that story to tell you this one; I called the Father at the church to talk about ICE, and said that I was willing to drive kids from the church to their schools, since ice can't pick up people at churchs. The response was so large that I couldn't have gotten all the kids in my car, or done enough trips to get everyone to school on time, so now the church will be running a bus, from the church to all the schools for kids that aren't in a bus route, and who have a parent afraid of deportation.

This is what we've become. Running underground railroads so 1st graders aren't afraid to go to school.

Second anecdote, I went to a restaurant last night, and all was chaos at a normally precision chain type place. Orders were coming out wrong, there was no bussers,it was madness. Turns out, most of the back of the restaurant had not shown up after immigration had been spotted in the area.

We just need to offer blanket citizenship and let these people back into the light.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:30 AM on March 4, 2017 [184 favorites]

The thing about compromise and the left is that liberalism is almost by definition an ideology of compromise. Want to practice some obscure religion? Fine! Want to spend your time saying how much you hate that religion? Fine! Want to marry somebody of a different race or the same gender? Fine! Want to only marry people of the exact same demographic as yourself and scowl at those who break your rules? Fine! Want to have an abortion, or not have one? Fine! Want to lick guns in the privacy of your own home? Fine! As long as you aren't hurting anyone else, it's all fine.

The only hitch is with collective goods and zero-sum tradeoffs. But it's not like liberals actually like taxes, it's just that there's no good alternative to building nice stuff like roads, water, the military, and schools and health for poor people. But if you've got a way to do that stuff without taxes -- fine! Let's hear it. Heck, liberals are happy even to experiment with things they're pretty sure won't work, like vouchers and charter schools and all that. Fine! Let's see it. The only thing they seem -- occasionally -- unwilling to compromise on is large-scale national switches to policies that have overwhelming empirical evidence against them, such as obliterating the EPA, voucherizing social security, medicare, or medicaid, and a few other things that could almost be listed on one hand. That's it! The rest is either up to the individual to decide -- the ultimate compromise -- or something that can be explored and tested experimentally and locally until we figure things out. Compromise. So when we do finally hit some of those red lines -- deporting millions of immigrants, hacking elections, deleting the EPA, education, diplomacy, etc -- we should pay attention to the fact that we're a bit surprised to see such backbone among the left. Because usually it's live-and-let-live, even to the point of decades of lost ground on core values like war, privacy, abortion, guns, state religion, or the environment. Because compromise is not just a weakness of Obama, it's fundamental to liberalism. Boy do we do it.

Up to a point.

And if any Republican thinks this is an unfair characterization, they are welcome to enumerate their own deep commitments to compromise and all the things they've done to let bygones be bygones and, when that's impossible, all the middle ground they've offered.

(And no, "opposing Trump" doesn't count, unless you actually like Trump and are only opposing him out of compromise. Hating Trump and joining the left in their fight against him is not compromise, it's just a shared interest. Compromise is when you do something actually contrary to your beliefs, like allowing private schools to teach falsities like creationism, or voting for Obamacare when you believe in single payer. That's the sort of stuff even the "Never Trumpers" fail to demonstrate, while they busily praise themselves for the supposed compromise of opposing the execrable.)
posted by chortly at 11:30 AM on March 4, 2017 [78 favorites]

I'm actually pretty darn surprised "The time for trivial fights is behind us." sort of held for a couple of days, but I think we can all safely agree it ended when he called the Apprentice ratings "bad (pathetic)."
posted by zachlipton at 11:31 AM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

The air quality improvements have been a result of California's strict standards not the federal ones. We'll be okay. It's the people living in Trumpista hellscapes that have to worry.

Did you not read literally the first line of that comment? Trump is going after California's waiver to implement stricter standards than what the Clean Air Act usually allows.
posted by Talez at 11:32 AM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

The air quality improvements have been a result of California's strict standards not the federal ones. We'll be okay. It's the people living in Trumpista hellscapes that have to worry.

No they're looking to truly fuck us over. California has a special provision that allows us to set stricter vehicle emission standards. They want to revoke that waiver.
posted by zachlipton at 11:34 AM on March 4, 2017 [29 favorites]

He's intentionally poisoning California's air out of spite. Straight-up supervillain territory.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:34 AM on March 4, 2017 [33 favorites]

sanity break is imagining being crushed to death in a puppy stampede

Did somebody call for a puppy stampede? How about 13 of them?
posted by scalefree at 11:34 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

And getting this "well you have to accept socialism or we won't take you in this fight" just feels like an opportunistic slap in the face - like Dems are trying to charge a price for lifeboats off the Titanic.

The question is, corb, how do you define socialism? Because no one at all in the American body politic is advocating turning the means of production over to worker ownership. On the other hand, if by opposing "socialism" means opposition to any tax increase, ever, and to regulations that prevent banks from getting us into another Great Recession, or let coal mine owners and other industries befoul the air and water that belongs to us all, or opposing the right to every American child a quality education at public expense -- all of which are policies of the modern Republican Party, Trump or no Trump, and not a one of which is actually "socialism," then yes, the price of my cooperation, for one, is to drop shpport for such a radical -- and not conservative, either, because there ought to be plenty of room for conservatives to support each of those to an extent at least -- agenda.
posted by Gelatin at 11:34 AM on March 4, 2017 [25 favorites]

The air quality improvements have been a result of California's strict standards not the federal ones. We'll be okay.

Read the article again - they are trying to go after the California waiver. If successful, states like CA would no longer be allowed to impose tougher standards than the federal EPA standard.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 11:35 AM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

ABC is reporting that Trump went "ballistic" at aides over the Sessions recusal and then left Priebus and Bannon behind in DC instead of them coming to Mar-a-Lago.

I imagine that Sessions recusing himself shortly after Trump said there was no reason for him to do so didn't go over well.
posted by zachlipton at 11:37 AM on March 4, 2017 [30 favorites]

We are living in a timeline with Betsy DeVos, Ben Carson, and Rex Tillerson on the Cabinet. It does make much difference.

I don't see how last year's numbers help with that. Change the Prez and you still have congress dug in for the long haul.
posted by ridgerunner at 11:37 AM on March 4, 2017

Did you not read literally the first line of that comment? Trump is going after California's waiver to implement stricter standards than what the Clean Air Act usually allows.

You're talking about the the tailpipe standards that went into effect in 2009, I believe. Most cars that meet those standards aren't even on the road yet. It's got nothing to do with the air quality in LA.

Look, I think its a bad move. But the air quality improvements in CA have nothing to do with this. It'll just prevent further improvements, not bring back the 80's smog.
posted by Justinian at 11:38 AM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

From way upthread: Of course these days "socialism" encompasses pretty much having a functioning government that does things for the people in any way, and collects taxes for any purpose other than the military or Trump Tower.

I have anti-Trump Republican family members who literally do think this way (with the exception of the Trump Tower part).
posted by maggiemaggie at 11:39 AM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

No they're looking to truly fuck us over. California has a special provision that allows us to set stricter vehicle emission standards. They want to revoke that waiver.

Bu... but federalism?!?
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:39 AM on March 4, 2017

States' Rights?
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:39 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

I called the Father at the church to talk about ICE, and said that I was willing to drive kids from the church to their schools, since ice can't pick up people at church

Thank you. Thank you thank you thank you.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:40 AM on March 4, 2017 [46 favorites]

monopas: Senator John Cornyn (R-TX) on Twitter: Inquiring minds want to know: name one thing congressional Ds are willing to work on, on a bipartisan basis, now. I am at a loss.

corb: What I want people to ask is, "How could I talk to Evan McMullin, or Ana Navarro? What compromise could I find with reasonable, honorable, opposition?"

Right now, for me, there are two sides--the pro-freedom, little d democratic side and the fascist side.

1) A full investigation including a public Congressional panel and special, independent prosecutor to investigate the Popular Vote Loser, his flunkies, and their collective connection to the Russian during the campaign, prior to the inauguration, and since January 20th, 2017.

2) Working to use existing law to enable the release of the Popular Vote Loser's entire tax history for at least the last 30 years.

3) Enacting legislative protections to address anthropogenic climate change--Lindsey Graham knows it's real, so the Republicans should take his lead on this one, when coming to the negotiating table.

Any solutions must be supported by real, well-thought out, evidence of their efficacy. I think there's enough common ground to work with, particularly on the first two.

I won't give an inch on recognizing human rights, women's freedom to make their own reproductive choices, or LGBTQ rights (to name a few).
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:40 AM on March 4, 2017 [22 favorites]

Dispatch from the finely-tuned machine, West Wing cagematch edition:

Before heading off to his so-called "winter White House" in Palm Beach, Florida, on Friday, President Donald Trump summoned some of his senior staff to the Oval Office and went "ballistic," senior White House sources told ABC News.

After the numerous profiles written about these people over the past year, my sense is Bannon is there to try and enact his weird "let it burn down" nationalist agenda. Priebus and Spicer are there to try and keep the car on the road long enough to enact the "mainstream" Ryan-backed GOP policy (maybe Dubke also?). Ivanka and Jared Kushner are the original and loudest yes-men for Trump, there to soothe and validate him regardless of what he does. McGahn is there...why? The chance to be a White House counsel?

Who advised Sessions to recuse himself, and did Trump know he was going to do that?

This thing is going off the rails quickly.
posted by sallybrown at 11:40 AM on March 4, 2017 [16 favorites]

> ABC is reporting that Trump went "ballistic" at aides over the Sessions recusal and then left Priebus and Bannon behind in DC instead of them coming to Mar-a-Lago.

At least we'll all die knowing that Trump actually hated being President. He's like Cartman at the end of "Cartmanland."
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:41 AM on March 4, 2017 [9 favorites]

You can't make a healthy country by legislating for only - let's generously say 52% of it.

Sure you can, if the stuff you legislate doesn't actually harm or fuck up or even really change the lives of the other 48% (or the majority, for that matter) in any significant way.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:41 AM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

He deep-down believes that he's an arbitrary monarch and nobody is allowed to say "no" to him. And in the absence of anyone to stop him, he might as well be.
posted by holgate at 11:41 AM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

I will stipulate that maybe the Trump people are stupid and evil enough to try to gut the CA standards from decades ago, not just the 2009 ones. If that turns out to be the case I think they will fail. But maybe they are indeed evil enough to try.
posted by Justinian at 11:42 AM on March 4, 2017

States' Rights?

It's all the other states that have rights. Not that one.
posted by scalefree at 11:43 AM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

From the link zachlipton posted above:
"On his first day on the job, the new Interior Department secretary, Ryan Zinke, proved he knows how to make an entrance: arriving high in the saddle on Tonto, an Irish sport horse."

I think this is the topic that needs a real investigation. First, why isn't he riding an AMERICAN horse like a Quarter Horse or a Tennessee Walking Horse? Second, do we know if his IMMIGRANT horse came here legally? Where are his papers? Did ICE approve of him? Third, what kind of a name is TONTO for a foreign horse? I think there is something suspicious right there, because we all know that's the name of the trusty sidekick of a REAL AMERICAN HERO, and it can't be used on an FOREIGN horse. Lastly, if the horse was born here is he an ANCHOR BABY horse for his immigrant parents? These are questions that must be answered.

(Sorry. I just couldn't help myself. Watching all of everything unfold south of the border is just like watching some sort of community theatre farce that you know just won't end well. You just hope the backdrops won't come crashing down and that the stage curtains won't suddenly catch fire. Everything is just too ridiculous to take seriously, even though it's scarily serious.)
posted by sardonyx at 11:44 AM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

@HeerJeet
The misspelling of "tapp" is from Trump seeing "wiretapping" and assuming "tapp" rather than "tap" was proper. Mistake of a non-reader.

Guys
Guys
Guys
We're missing big picture. This isn't a spelling mistake. Trump is starting a heavy metal cover band; This Is Spinal Tapp
posted by nubs at 11:46 AM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

Who advised Sessions to recuse himself, and did Trump know he was going to do that?

Sessions might have gotten spooked enough to do it on his own. Or a friendly IC or LEO might have been like, "you do not want to be the face of what comes next."
posted by schadenfrau at 11:47 AM on March 4, 2017 [15 favorites]

The Tappening.
posted by Coventry at 11:47 AM on March 4, 2017 [13 favorites]

Dispatch from the finely-tuned machine, West Wing cagematch edition:

Also, where was Kellyanne "I have walk-in privileges" Conway?

And where are the photos of this incident that the article references?
posted by sallybrown at 11:47 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Tapp card for 1 Mana(fort)
posted by nubs at 11:50 AM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

You can't make a healthy country by legislating for only - let's generously say 52% of it.

Curiously, 52% is precisely the number by which every one of Trump's execrable cabinet members has been confirmed.
posted by JackFlash at 11:50 AM on March 4, 2017 [12 favorites]

He deep-down believes that he's an arbitrary monarch and nobody is allowed to say "no" to him.

He's long believed that his rightful place in society is ruling over it. It started with the racehorse eugenics he inherited from his father & it's why he named both his son & his PR alter-ego Barron. I've come to suspect Bannon & other nRXers made a pact with him that when they bring about the Dark Enlightenment & replace our failed democracy with a monarchy, he would be their figurehead king.
posted by scalefree at 11:53 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

2 tapp 2 furious
posted by poffin boffin at 11:54 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Don't tapp me bro
posted by nubs at 11:57 AM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Eric Garland styles himself a "professional futurist." Pardon me for not taking him seriously. Who ever heard of him before?

He's a futurist, not a past-ist. You'll hear about him after.
posted by msalt at 11:59 AM on March 4, 2017 [14 favorites]

More juicy tidbits from Politico:

That Trump continued to obsess over Sessions, even after he recused himself, is not unusual. Days after Michael Flynn resigned as national security adviser, Trump continued to question whether he made the right decision, people who spoke to him said.

In other phone conversations with several people over the last 48 hours, the image-conscious Trump has spoken more generally about his frustrations with his administration – and the perceptions surrounding it. "He’s tired of everyone thinking his presidency is screwed up," said one person who spoke to him. . . .

Several other people close to Trump said they weren't sure where he got his information for the posts. One of these people said most of Trump's aides were back in Washington and woke up exasperated at the posts.

When you lie down with dogs, you wake up with tweets.

That article also says "The White House is planning to sign a revised executive order on his controversial travel ban at the Department of Homeland Security on Monday, according to senior officials familiar with the matter."

Kasie Hunt reports Trump will eat dinner tonight with Sessions, even though he's not on the official schedule.
posted by sallybrown at 12:04 PM on March 4, 2017 [14 favorites]

Love how Trump refers to the "very sacred election process". That would be the same "sacred" election in which Trump publicly asked Russia to hack his opponent.
posted by PenDevil at 12:09 PM on March 4, 2017 [54 favorites]

Perhaps a clue about who leaked the details of that Oval Office blowup?

The President's new official schedule notes that he'll be having dinner with Sessions, Bannon, and McGahn, among others. No Priebus.
posted by sallybrown at 12:10 PM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

Al Jazeera English's Listening Post today had a nice overview of White-House related developments in the last couple of weeks from a slightly different slant than I've seen in U.S. media. Also an interesting piece about the debut by TV Perú of Ñuqanchik, a broadcast in the indigenous language Quechua, and about prejudice against indigenous Peruvians.
posted by XMLicious at 12:11 PM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

Kasie Hunt reports Trump will eat dinner tonight with Sessions, even though he's not on the official schedule.

Uh oh, Sessions done got told to cut himself a switch and come on out to the woodshed, y'all.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:12 PM on March 4, 2017 [13 favorites]

The President's new official schedule notes that he'll be having dinner with Sessions, Bannon, and McGahn, among others. No Priebus.

Will they all have the steak?
posted by nubs at 12:14 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

Uh oh, Sessions done got told to cut himself a switch and come on out to the woodshed, y'all.

Nah, they are peas in a pod. They'll be scheming.
posted by futz at 12:14 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

Love how Trump refers to the "very sacred election process". That would be the same "sacred" election in which Trump publicly asked Russia to hack his opponent.

And in which he has claimed more than 3 million illegal votes were cast but has refused to investigate.
posted by Etrigan at 12:14 PM on March 4, 2017 [22 favorites]

Secret Life of Gravy: I see from my local news source that there is a Pro-Trump rally in Raleigh today from noon until 4:00 with a dozen speakers ... They are encouraging people to wear red and bring homemade posters.

Room 641-A: For anyone that may find it useful, LAist has a basic form letter for women that may want to explain to her boss why she is taking off work to strike on March 8 ....

The Women's March letter noted that one of the requests was that supporters "wear red in solidarity with the strike."

Sounds like a coincidence? Nah, I have my pussyhat.
posted by TrishaU at 12:15 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

If some Republicans agree with us that Trump's presidency is a disaster for the country and want to see the country come through this as functioning democracy, we should accept their help in opposing the administration's fascist policies and trying to get Trump impeached. We still disagree about important policy issues. Those aren't going to go away. We can work together to oppose Trump without compromising on other issues we disagree about. I'm a social democrat and part of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. I'm totally willing to work with moderate Democrats and Republicans that I disagree with sharply about economic and sometimes other issues to resist Trumpism and push for an investigation into his administration's dealings with Russia.

Right now, we shouldn't worried about getting Republican / liberal Democrat / BernieBro cooties. We can get back to being from different parties and warring factions of the Democratic Party. Right now, the important thing is to make sure we have future elections to fight about those issues in.

One thing the people who put the Indivisible Guide together did was encourage people to register local Indivisible groups with their website as a way to find local anti-Trump activists and to hold face-to-face meeting in their districts. There are thousands of them now. I'm sure almost all of them have members who supported Hillary and Bernie in the primaries, and I've seen anecdotal reports that some of them have Republican members as well. There was nothing overt about this, but organizing an Indivisible group is different from mobilizing a Pantsuit Nation or Our Revolution group. It means anyone who opposes is Trump is welcome and we can talk to each other. Although it's subtle, I think this was important to create a unified opposition. And I think this is a good thing.
posted by nangar at 12:21 PM on March 4, 2017 [23 favorites]

You can't make a healthy country by legislating for only - let's generously say 52% of it.

This is a completely crazy thing to say. Aside from the fact that, as many studies linked right here in this thread show, a significant majority of "independents" always favor Democratic over Republican policies (meaning that the number in this line should be quite a lot higher than 52%), the biggest and most obvious difference between Democratic and Republican governance is that Democratic policies tend to be about helping most people regardless of their leanings (for example, environmental regulations, food safety regulations, Obamacare, and about a million others) while Republican policies tend to be about helping only the people at the top of the economy while distributing negative consequences to as many people as possible. Democrats rule for Americans, while Republicans say shit like "The winners legislate and the losers go home."
(There are definitely some problems with the current incarnation of the Democratic party working too hard for Wall Street, but I don't think the proper response to "The Democratic party does bad things sometimes by acting too much like Republicans" is "so let's try to elect people who will ALWAYS act like Republicans".)

What I want people to ask is, "How could I talk to Evan McMullin, or Ana Navarro? What compromise could I find with reasonable, honorable, opposition?"

We're talking about the Evan McMullin who thinks that the Supreme Court should be made up of people "in the mold of Antonin Scalia"? The Evan McMullin that insists that Roe vs. Wade needs to be overturned? I don't think you understand that the fact that Evan McMullin is more reasonable than most Republicans does not mean that he is reasonable overall. This is the effect of the Overton window: in a sane world, people would look at Evan McMullin and say "That guy is a little extreme." The fact that many Republicans are actually denying reality at every turn doesn't make anyone who acknowledges reality automatically a good guy. Evan McMullin thinks science is real and that Obergefell shouldn't be overturned, but that doesn't make him moderate by any means; he's just barely past the bar for "not a literal crazy person". And, I mean, good for him, but that is not good enough to qualify the dude for leadership. Certainly nobody crazier than that should be in charge of anything larger than their own life, and "crazier than that" currently appears to describe every single elected Republican official.

Frankly, the Democratic party is where the rightmost party in our political system should be. In a sane world they would be competing in elections with people who are to the left of them. The existence of the current incarnation of the Republican party is a blight on this planet and a badge of shame for this country. That said, if some Republicans want to come and join the good fight against fascism then they're welcome, but they shouldn't expect us to let them go back to doing evil afterward just because they did one good thing for a change.
posted by IAmUnaware at 12:25 PM on March 4, 2017 [54 favorites]

Nah, they are peas in a pod. They'll be scheming.

Sure, but considering the screaming fit he had yesterday and the Saturday morning rant, Trump is probably still a tad bit pissed at Sessions for thwarting his will and making him look (even more) like a dimwit.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:26 PM on March 4, 2017

At 11 a.m., supporters of Planned Parenthood in Boston had a rally on Boston Common. Several hundred people, including four US representatives, the mayor and two city councilors attended. At noon, Trump supporters had their own rally on the steps of the State House, at the other end of the Common. Two or three dozen people attended. Granted, this is Boston, but still.
posted by adamg at 12:26 PM on March 4, 2017 [17 favorites]

> news just hit that a russian oligarch is the main investor behind palantir

> Got a link?

Was a link posted? I googled also and zilch as of a hour or so ago.
posted by futz at 12:29 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

He'll have the meatloaf.
posted by Artw at 12:32 PM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

So, I have anti-Trump conservative parents and I can't bring myself to talk to them about our mutual dislike because it will inevitably lead to all the ways in which Democrats and liberals are really the ones at fault--for not running better candidates, for being anti-enlightenment (yes, really) and somehow encouraging all the people in the other party to also reject the enlightenment, for Hillary being the actual devil, for not understanding the deep pain and suffering of white people hard enough, for identity politics, and on and on and on. And, like, I can't. My side has not been perfect, I will concede our shitty, shallow bench (partially caused by R gerrymandering, but partially our own damn fault), and the general craven stance of the party. But I am not going to ally myself with a bunch of people who want to spend 95% of their time telling me how wrong I am when it is their own goddamn people who elected a demented fascist. I'm happy to work with other anti-fascists, no matter what party, but I'm not here for another round of The Unified Theory of Everything is That Liberals Are Always Bad.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:32 PM on March 4, 2017 [63 favorites]

futz, not that I noticed, and I am skeptical because Thiel already had more money than God when he started Palantir.
posted by Coventry at 12:37 PM on March 4, 2017

news just hit that a russian oligarch is the main investor behind palantir

Here is a list of supposedly all of Palantir's funding going back to 2005. It's raised many rounds from a diverse array of investors, so if the Russian oligarch is the "main" investor, he's probably in there somewhere.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 12:38 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

Anyone who thinks that the Democratic Party is pushing socialism has never met the Democratic Party.

Anyone who does not think that Obamacare is socialism doesn't have any idea what socialism means. Obamacare takes money from rich people and gives it to poor people. Anyone saying that isn't socialism hasn't met the Republican Party.
posted by JackFlash at 12:38 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

He's intentionally poisoning California's air out of spite. Straight-up supervillain territory.

And just to put a fine point on this, it used to be so bad that we would have "smog days" where we weren't allowed outside at recess. "Poisoning" is not hyperbole.

I'm going to set a Google news alert for Jerry Brown + emsissions. Mr. Trump, Bring. It.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:48 PM on March 4, 2017 [9 favorites]

> Kasie Hunt reports Trump will eat dinner tonight with Sessions, even though he's not on the official schedule.

With or without some fava beans and a nice chianti?
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:51 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

Anyone who does not think that Obamacare is socialism doesn't have any idea what socialism means.

Doesn't "socialism" usually have something to do with the people controlling the means of production? If so, then in what sense is a program that transfers money from the rich to the poor (generally) or Obamacare (specifically) socialism?

Perhaps Webster's definition and Wikipedia's account are both too narrow, and "socialism" should be defined in terms of government providing for the welfare of the people or in terms of government redistributing goods to increase the overall well-being of the people without necessarily controlling the means of production. But if so, then a good case can be made that the U.S. has always been a socialist state.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 12:52 PM on March 4, 2017 [12 favorites]

/Chris Christie hobbles by on crutches, conspicuously missing one leg. Mumbles: "The meatloaf... its... good. Yes, good. Good!"
posted by Artw at 12:53 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

Doesn't "socialism" usually have something to do with the people controlling the means of production?

That's communism.
posted by Artw at 12:55 PM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

Charles Pierce: While You Were Sleeping, Trump Pushed A Wiretap Conspiracy Theory Into The Red Zone. The president* had another episode.

I think the whole thing started percolating to draw attention away from Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III's unfortunate collision with his own confirmation testimony this week. But I think the real match tossed into the powder magazine was an interview that Senator Chris Coons, Democrat of Delaware, gave to Andrea Mitchell on MSNBC Friday afternoon.

In that interview, Coons as much as said that he believes that transcripts of conversations between Trump campaign officials and Russian officials exist. In my opinion, if those transcripts exist, and the Trump people know it, and know what's in them, it is in the interest of the administration to flip the script pre-emptively to how the transcripts were obtained as opposed to what they might contain. If administration officials are in contact with the Breitbart people—which isn't exactly a leap in the dark—then they slip the possibility of wiretaps to those people and then the president* reacts to news that some of his own people may have planted. (Think Dick Cheney, Judy Miller, and the aluminum tubes.) In any case, the stakes in this matter just became mortal.

...

There is a critical mass building quickly concerning the connections between the president*, his administration, his aides, and the Putin regime. There's just too much of it right now for the administration to contain. Given that, it probably would have been helpful if the president* hadn't had another episode on Saturday morning. Of course, once the episode passed, he was back to serious business again – tweeting about Arnold Schwarzenegger's performance on Celebrity Apprentice. I guess the time for trivial fights really is over.

posted by homunculus at 12:56 PM on March 4, 2017 [15 favorites]

Colin Kahl (Biden's Security Advisor): Gorka might not have the Top Secret security clearance his position requires.

(Bonus: Gorka blocked Kahl on Twitter because Kahl wondered why Gorka is now contradicting his own Ph.D thesis)
posted by PenDevil at 12:58 PM on March 4, 2017 [20 favorites]

The new model favored by republicans, BTW, is less capitalism of the free market kind and more corporate statism - with Trump and cronies having a finger in every pie and an erasure of boundries between the interests of Trump/the state/favored corporations.
posted by Artw at 1:00 PM on March 4, 2017 [10 favorites]

Speaking of wiretapping: Trump Wants NSA Program Reauthorized But Won’t Tell Congress How Many Americans It Spies On

The White House wants Congress to reauthorize two of the NSA’s largest surveillance programs before they expire at the end of the year.

One of them scans the traffic that passes through the massive internet cables going in and out of the U.S. and ends up catching a vast number of American communications in its dragnet.

But how many? Lawmakers have been asking for years, and the intelligence community has consistently refused provide even a ballpark figure.

posted by homunculus at 1:00 PM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

Catblack: it sure seems that a lot of news stories about Trump's scandals that head out with legs come back without them.

Artw: Chris Christie hobbles by on crutches, conspicuously missing one leg.

Heh.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:01 PM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

After the numerous profiles written about these people over the past year, my sense is Bannon is there to try and enact his weird "let it burn down" nationalist agenda. Priebus and Spicer are there to try and keep the car on the road long enough to enact the "mainstream" Ryan-backed GOP policy (maybe Dubke also?). Ivanka and Jared Kushner are the original and loudest yes-men for Trump, there to soothe and validate him regardless of what he does. McGahn is there...why? The chance to be a White House counsel?

Who advised Sessions to recuse himself, and did Trump know he was going to do that?

This thing is going off the rails quickly.

The Trump Presidency is a gaping, festering wound on the body politic, and his appointees the seething maggots therein.
posted by jamjam at 1:01 PM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

Gorka is the back up Russian spy after Flynn, so getting clearance by normal means probably is going to be a problem.
posted by Artw at 1:01 PM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

Added to the list of things Trump doesn't know: what McCarthyism is.

It's almost too bad that The Donald will not be around in 25 years to see what "Trumpism" means by then.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:02 PM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

Anyone who does not think that Obamacare is socialism doesn't have any idea what socialism means.

Wait, you're talking about the insurance model initially proposed by the Heritage Foundation and later implemented by a Republican governor? Apologies if this was meant to be ironic, my meter's a bit wonky lately.
posted by sapere aude at 1:03 PM on March 4, 2017 [46 favorites]

Chris Christie hobbles by on crutches, conspicuously missing one leg

A Reek like that, you don't eat him all at once.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:04 PM on March 4, 2017 [15 favorites]

The Donald will not be around in 25 years.

Don't be optimistic.
posted by Namlit at 1:04 PM on March 4, 2017

Whether Obamacare is socialism or not, it's probably the piece of legislation that did the most to address income inequality since Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965. And before that, since the New Deal.
posted by chris24 at 1:04 PM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

That's communism.

Not according to Webster's and Wikipedia. Just quoting the first part of the Wiki on socialism:

Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production; as well as the political ideologies, theories, and movements that aim to establish them.

I mean, common ownership of the means of production is part of a communist worldview. But there's a lot more to communism than that. And common ownership of the means of production seems to be an essential character of socialism as such. (I know there is a lot of nuance to add here ... but at a first pass ...)
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 1:06 PM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

Looks like the DAPL pipeline won't be built with American steel.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 1:06 PM on March 4, 2017

But it will be built with American blood.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 1:08 PM on March 4, 2017 [13 favorites]

And just to put a fine point on this, it used to be so bad that we would have "smog days" where we weren't allowed outside at recess. "Poisoning" is not hyperbole.

Houston still has these, though they're called high ozone days. And the city has the strictest emissions standards in the state, but it's still Texas.
posted by threeturtles at 1:08 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

I hadn't seen this posted here before, sorry if it's a dupe.

"Why should we be deported? This is very, very hard for a family. What will our fellow citizens think if honest subjects are faced with such a decree — not to mention the great material losses it would incur." -- Friedrich Trump, 1905
posted by jammer at 1:12 PM on March 4, 2017 [28 favorites]

The President's new official schedule notes that he'll be having dinner with Sessions, Bannon, and McGahn, among others. No Priebus.

Tonight Priebus eats his meatloaf in the darkness of the brand-new White House Oubliette.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:12 PM on March 4, 2017 [9 favorites]

WaPo: Trump says Schwarzenegger was fired from ‘Apprentice.’ Then Schwarzenegger fires back.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:14 PM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

Houston still has these, though they're called high ozone days. And the city has the strictest emissions standards in the state, but it's still Texas.

Salt Lake City, Louisville, any populated valley in California.

We've gone forward so much in this regard, it's going to be a shame if it all goes down the toilet because of SCROTUS.
posted by Talez at 1:15 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

Grassley denies calls for Sessions to testify on Russian ambassador meetings

"It's unfortunate that the Democrats didn't even have the decency to give him an opportunity to clear up confusion to the statement in writing."

Grassley is a weaselly fucknugget. Everything is totally cool now b/c Sessions is going to amend and correct his testimony in writing on Monday as he had planned to all along. That is total bullshit of course.
posted by futz at 1:15 PM on March 4, 2017 [13 favorites]

This guy I can work across the aisle with: Sen. Ben Sasse statement via Jim Acosta -

"The President today made some very serious allegations, and the informed citizens that a republic requires deserve more information. If there were wiretaps of then-candidate Trump's organization or campaign, then it was either with FISA Court authorization or without such authorization. If without, the President should explain what sort of wiretap it was and how he knows this. It is possible that he was illegally tapped. On the other hand, if it was with a legal FISA Court order, then an application for surveillance exists that the Court found credible. The President should ask that this full application regarding surveillance of foreign operatives or operations be made available, ideally to the full public, and at a bare minimum to the U.S. Senate.

We are in the midst of a civilization-warping crisis of public trust, and the President's allegations today demand the thorough and dispassionate attention of serious patriots. A quest for the full truth, rather than knee-jerk partisanship, must be our guide if we are going to rebuild civic trust and health."

posted by sallybrown at 1:21 PM on March 4, 2017 [79 favorites]

Trump expected to sign new executive order on travel ban on Monday: Employees at DHS were instructed to work from home on Monday morning, according to an internal agency email sent late Friday.

White House chief strategist Steve Bannon was heading on Saturday to Mar-a-Lago "for an EO launch meeting" with a team from the Department of Justice. They will meet with DHS officials and the president, according to a source familiar with the matter.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:21 PM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

"The Overton Window Presidency (TM)"
posted by drezdn at 1:26 PM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

monopas: Senator John Cornyn (R-TX) on Twitter: Inquiring minds want to know: name one thing congressional Ds are willing to work on, on a bipartisan basis, now. I am at a loss.

R: You guys should eat a shit sandwich!

D: no.

R: Okay then eat HALF a shit sandwich.

D: Hell no.

R: Well I give up ! There's no working with these people.
posted by ian1977 at 1:34 PM on March 4, 2017 [101 favorites]

nangar If some Republicans agree with us that Trump's presidency is a disaster for the country and want to see the country come through this as functioning democracy, we should accept their help in opposing the administration's fascist policies and trying to get Trump impeached.

Sure, absolutely! I'm from the far, far, left wing of the Democrats and I'm in complete agreement.

That was never the discussion. It was proposed by someone that, as a price for getting Republican cooperation, the Democrats needed to abandon some unspecified, policies, talking points, protests, or causes.

This brings us into two critical questions:

1) What, exactly is the price being demanded for nevertrumper cooperation, and

2) What, exactly, are they offering in exchange for this price?

The second question is even more critical because so far the influence of the nevertrump Republicans appears to be exactly, precisely, zero. I'm not sure I'd pay even a penny for their cooperation, much less surrender all manner of unspecified policy goals.

The best the nevertrumpers have is Egg McMuffin, and he's got no influence, power, or position. McCain and the others occasionally say mean things about Trump, but then they always bend the knee and vote for him. So far the Republican Party is giving Trump absolutely everything he asks for.

I am, therefore, dubious as to the existence of a sufficient number of nevertrump Republicans to be worth sacrificing, well, anything, to woo.

And then there's the backwards nature of the claim.

See, the nevertrump Republicans are, their distaste for Trump to the side, still Republicans. They're getting their wish list enacted into law. So it seems, from my POV, that they're basically demanding that not only do they get to do literally every single thing on their legislative bucket list, but also that we on the Democratic side STFU about the stuff that makes them uncomfortable, and in exchange for giving them literally every single thing they ever wanted they're offering unspecified and probably worthless help.

If they want to sign up for Indivisible without putting strings on it, yay! Otherwise, screw 'em.

sallybrown He talks pretty. Wake me up when he uses his power to vote against Trump as leverage to force the appointment of a special prosecutor or something equally real. As long as all he has is tough talk but votes for Trump then he's just another person trying to claim nevertrump credit without doing the work.
posted by sotonohito at 1:35 PM on March 4, 2017 [32 favorites]

Employees at DHS were instructed to work from home on Monday morning

… What? Is that so there's nobody in the office who can leak anything?
posted by fedward at 1:37 PM on March 4, 2017 [11 favorites]

California Rep. Adam Schiff

"No matter how much we hope and pray that this President will grow into one who respects and understands the Constitution, separation of powers, role of a free press, responsibilities as the leader of the free world, or demonstrates even the most basic regard for the truth, we must now accept that President Trump will never become that man," Schiff said.

posted by Miss Cellania at 1:42 PM on March 4, 2017 [47 favorites]

I think this new paragraph was added to an existing NYT story because I think I would have noticed this earlier:

But a senior White House official said that Donald F. McGahn II, the president’s chief counsel, was working on Saturday to secure access to what the official described as a document issued by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorizing surveillance of Mr. Trump and his associates. The official offered no evidence to support the notion that such a document exists; any such move by a White House counsel would be viewed at the Justice Department as a stunning case of interference.

Whoa. Who the f leaked this, and why?
posted by sallybrown at 1:42 PM on March 4, 2017 [53 favorites]

It actually looks to me as though quite a lot of Republicans are signing up for Indivisible. Many, if not most, of those people at the Chaffetz and Cotton town halls, for example, had to have been Republican voters. They weren't asking for concessions from Democrats for their participation.
posted by maggiemaggie at 1:45 PM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

Senator John Cornyn (R-TX) on Twitter: Inquiring minds want to know: name one thing congressional Ds are willing to work on, on a bipartisan basis, now. I am at a loss.

An independent investigation into Russian involvement in the 2016 election? You might find some bipartisan support there.

And a counter question: name one thing Congressional Rs were willing to work on, bipartisan, in the last 4 years? Perhaps you are finding you do not like the taste of the shit sandwich you helped to make?
posted by nubs at 1:48 PM on March 4, 2017 [20 favorites]

National Treasure II: FISA Warrant Edition
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:49 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

… What? Is that so there's nobody in the office who can leak anything?

The USSS always wants the least number of people in the same place as SCROTUS as possible. Even if SCROTUS disagrees.
posted by Talez at 1:52 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump: “Ahh, but the strawberries that’s… that’s where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with… geometric logic… that a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox DID exist, and I’d have produced that key if they hadn’t of pulled the Caine out of action.”
posted by JackFlash at 1:55 PM on March 4, 2017 [10 favorites]

Whenever my mom tries this "moving too fast" thing on me I like to ask "moving too fast how?" What, specifically, is actually moving too fast, and for whom?

Not endorsing these views -- don't kill the messenger -- but there are definitely some ways that the Clinton campaign did NOT triangulate which I think was a real problem in the last election.

To start, we got Obamacare, universal gay marriage and widespread legal weed during Obama's terms. All three were unthinkable 15 years ago -- more than 30 states banned gay marriage in their constitutions just in 2004. Legal weed wasn't even discussed. The latter two were all in Obama's second term, and the public took them in stride remarkably well, but these changes were a lot to digest already. Oh yeah, normalized relations with Cuba too.

Outside the liberal bubble, these are the issues I think seemed like too much too fast, on top of all that.

1) Immigration. There were a lot of people on the left who said some variation of "they should all be allowed to stay" or even "everyone should be allowed to move in, laws be damned." Obv. that wasn't Clinton's position, but neither did she do a good job of saying how she would draw the line or what the distinction was.

2) Trans rights. I don't even think most people had a problem with the bathroom thing, but the standards were clearly shifting very quickly. So quickly that it wasn't not even clear what trans specifically meant any more. (20 years ago, it meant you were on the path toward surgical reassignment, "pre-op" or "post-op." Now, some spectrum between that and gender queer I guess?) Suddenly people who might be fine with gay marriage are getting in trouble for not asking everyone what their preferred pronoun was, and yes that's a lot of change quickly.

3) Police oversight. This one is less reasonable, but it was a remarkable change that under Obama the federal government was pushing against police and their unions, whose power had essentially been opposed, uh, never in history except by hippies, socialists and other malcontents. People were working through issues of body cams, trials of police, consent decrees, etc. -- again all fine but a lot to digest -- when suddenly the Dallas gunman (Micah Johnson) shoots 14 officers at a Black Lives Matter rally in Dallas.

Yes, I know he was not part of BLM but for many people who tend to support the police instinctively, that moment permanently discredited BLM and proved right all the Hannities of the world calling BLM anti-police, racist, violent, etc. From that moment on, every mention of BLM reinforced Fox-fueled fears that there was a violent antipolice movement raging out of control. Every demonsration was BLM vs. police, after all.

For a lot of people especially away from the coasts, those three things together created a sense of societal change out of control. And of course, played into racist anxieties.
posted by msalt at 2:01 PM on March 4, 2017 [23 favorites]

It seems so strange that millions of people are seemingly helpless to do anything about stuff like 45's chief counsel trying to get FISA documents.
posted by xyzzy at 2:01 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

Does anyone know whether the FISA Court has the power to release the FISA warrant (if it exists) and related decision/briefing sue sponte?
posted by sallybrown at 2:04 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Does anyone know whether the FISA Court has the power to release the FISA warrant (if it exists) and related decision/briefing sue sponte?

While not really responding to the query, I've been encouraged by the lack of tolerance for DJT's hijinks by the Courts, and I suspect any response would be similar to GTFO, but couched in wonderful legal language.
posted by mikelieman at 2:09 PM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

Does anyone know whether the FISA Court has the power to release the FISA warrant (if it exists) and related decision/briefing sue sponte?

Here are the FISA court rules of procedure. Relevant sections:

The Judge who authored an order, opinion, or other decision may sua sponte or on motion by a party request that it be published. Upon such request, the Presiding Judge, after consulting with other Judges of the Court, may direct that an order, opinion or other decision be published. Before publication, the Court may, as appropriate, direct the Executive Branch to review the order, opinion, or other decision and redact it as necessary to ensure that properly classified information is appropriately protected pursuant to Executive Order 13526 (or its successor).

The Presiding Judge may provide copies of Court orders, opinions, decisions, or other Court records to Congress. Such disclosures must be made in conformance with the security measures referenced in Rule 3.

Rule 3. National Security Information. In all matters, the Court and its staff shall comply with the security measures established pursuant to 50 U.S.C. §§ 1803(c), 1822(e), 186l(f)(4), and 188la(k)(l), as well as Executive Order 13526, "Classified National Security Information" (or its successor). Each member of the Court's staff must possess security clearances at a level commensurate to the individual's responsibilities.

posted by melissasaurus at 2:12 PM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

So McGahn is trawling for a FISA warrant that may not exist and having dinner tonight at Mar-a-farrago with the AG who has supposedly recused himself from any related investigations?

Oh kay. Might as well just put a neon sign outside saying "THIS WAY TO THE COVER-UP".
posted by holgate at 2:18 PM on March 4, 2017 [49 favorites]

And the magahat narrative is now that if there were FISA warrants, Obama is guilty of a million Watergates because reasons. We are way down the rabbit hole now.
posted by holgate at 2:21 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

Can we please, pretty please, install a live webstream from Mar al Lago?
posted by stonepharisee at 2:22 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

monopas: Senator John Cornyn (R-TX) on Twitter: Inquiring minds want to know: name one thing congressional Ds are willing to work on, on a bipartisan basis, now. I am at a loss.

Let's see:

Investigation into Russian and other foreign interference in US elections
Containing Russian and Chinese expansionism diplomatically with a coalition
Comprehensive immigration reform
Strengthening NATO
Work on nuclear non-proliferation
Continuing the successful containment and destruction of ISIS
Fighting terrorism both abroad and at home

All of those have massive support in the USA across party lines.

That's not even getting into stuff where there's broad national support but some room for disagreement and compromise, like:

Securing energy independence, I'd like a focus on renewables and electric cars, but I could make carbon neutral compromises with coal and oil if needed
Addressing climate change, while elected Republicans are reluctant here, many Republican voters tend to agree it's an important issue
Addressing health care, even some elected Republicans admit that "let them die in the street" isn't a good policy, and among Republican voters there's a lot of support for most of the content of the ACA if it's divorced from Obama's name
Managing the shift to an increasingly automated economy

What he means, of course, is "where can I find a Democrat who will agree with my radical agenda of theocracy, misogyny, and racism". But if he was serious about finding areas where bipartisanship is possible there's plenty.
posted by sotonohito at 2:25 PM on March 4, 2017 [63 favorites]

stonepharisee there are several, just not available to anyone but various foreign intelligence agencies.
posted by sotonohito at 2:26 PM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

But a senior White House official said that Donald F. McGahn II, the president’s chief counsel, was working on Saturday to secure access to what the official described as a document issued by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorizing surveillance of Mr. Trump and his associates.

Although it looks as dodgy as heck in this case, is there a general reason why the Executive shouldn't be able to look at a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorisation? In Australia the legal theory is that the government are ministers of the Crown, and the Crown doesn't change (though particular governments and even monarchs do) so I presume that any government could say "please give us a copy of the order that the last government requested". Is it not that way in the USA?
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:29 PM on March 4, 2017

Suddenly people who might be fine with gay marriage are getting in trouble for not asking everyone what their preferred pronoun was

Cmon, dude, this is kind of an ugly straw man. I'd bet a lot of money that most of the people who are super bothered by trans rights do not frequent the kinds of places where people would ask others to use they/them/their.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:33 PM on March 4, 2017 [32 favorites]

is there a general reason why the Executive shouldn't be able to look at a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorisation?

The president can request (and also declassify) documents at will. But if it's related to an ongoing investigation, the Nixon precedent comes very starkly into focus.
posted by holgate at 2:36 PM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

I'm really delighted by the mental image of obama in some kind of cartoonish cat burglar getup scaling the side of trump tower and eavesdropping via a glass pressed against the window
posted by poffin boffin at 2:37 PM on March 4, 2017 [19 favorites]

is there a general reason why the Executive shouldn't be able to look at a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorisation

The Executive can -- the law enforcement/intelligence arms of the executive branch. The "White House" is the political arm of the executive branch. In general, we like the appearance of a separation between the gathering of intelligence or the enforcement of the law and political considerations.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:37 PM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

"... so far, we have a coverup without a crime."

Useful perspective from Ryan Lizza, basically emphasizing how little we actually know about any of the Russia stuff. The takeaway is essentially:

Kislyak -- not at all shady, as far as anyone knows
Talking to Kislyak -- not really a shady thing to do
Talking to Kislyak as much as the Trump camp did -- maybe kinda shady
Lying about talking to Kislyak -- probably pretty fucking shady
posted by neroli at 2:40 PM on March 4, 2017 [42 favorites]

is there a general reason why the Executive shouldn't be able to look at a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court authorisation?

Generally, no. But in this case it would hypothetically be an investigation targeting members of the administration and party. So it would be the same as Nixon interfering in the FBI investigation of Watergate.

For example, if there were a warrant regarding Manafort's contacts with the Russians, wouldn't Trump like to know and warn him? Wouldn't Trump like to know what actual tapes might exist so that he and his advisers can avoid perjuring themselves by contradicting them?
posted by JackFlash at 2:41 PM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

Suddenly people who might be fine with gay marriage are getting in trouble for not asking everyone what their preferred pronoun was

I don't think many people have even claimed that they got in trouble over that, and I recall that on at least one occasion, a followup report basically debunked it. I don't recall the details, but that's because these stories are uncommon and generally appear in third-rate outrage reports. On the other hand, I remember that people used to obsess over the possibility that they might be abused because they opened a door for a woman. Those feminists, you know, always seeking an opportunity to take offense. The fear may have been real but the problem wasn't a genuine one; I think it was just a constructed scenario that would justify their inchoate fear of change.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:43 PM on March 4, 2017 [10 favorites]

Kislyak -- not at all shady, as far as anyone knows

He's been repeatedly referred to as a "top spy" by intelligence officials though.
posted by futz at 2:44 PM on March 4, 2017 [9 favorites]

@TheLeadCNN
Former CIA operative @Evan_McMullin says it is his understanding that Russian ambassador is a spy and spy recruiter [video]
posted by chris24 at 2:48 PM on March 4, 2017 [33 favorites]

>>Suddenly people who might be fine with gay marriage are getting in trouble for not asking everyone what their preferred pronoun was

>Cmon, dude, this is kind of an ugly straw man. I'd bet a lot of money that most of the people who are super bothered by trans rights do not frequent the kinds of places where people would ask others to use they/them/their.

Way to ignore 90% of what I said. Even so:
1) people don't have to be "super bothered by trans rights" -- that's your straw man. The question was, was there a perception things were moving too fast? Confused by <> super bothered by
2) I heard this from intelligent (granted older) Democrats in Portland Oregon. Is that a liberal enough place to meet your standard?
3) You're assuming that people who feel differently than you don't read national websites and newspapers, where these discussions were common. They have the Internet in many smaller towns, you know.
4) The election swung on several states that combined conservative and/or blue collar less progressive areas with big cities, whose media dominated the states. (Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio, Florida, etc.)
posted by msalt at 2:49 PM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

McMuffin swoops in like a bald LOTR eagle
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:49 PM on March 4, 2017 [17 favorites]

In general, we like the appearance of a separation between the gathering of intelligence or the enforcement of the law and political considerations.

On the other hand, US Attorneys are appointed by the President every 4 years and most of the intelligence agencies have their topmost positions similarly filled. We must not like it that much.
posted by indubitable at 2:49 PM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

Who is Sergey Kislyak, the Russian ambassador to the United States?

-- Sergey Kislyak is the diplomat's diplomat -- an envoy of extensive experience whose career spans the Soviet era and that of the Russian Federation.

-- Describing him as "effective and experienced," McFaul added: "You're never confused about what country he's representing."

-- Current and former US intelligence officials have described Kislyak as a top spy and recruiter of spies, a notion that Russian officials have dismissed.
posted by futz at 2:51 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

1) people don't have to be "super bothered by trans rights" -- that's your straw man. The question was, was there a perception things were moving too fast? Confused by <> super bothered by

Except in NC, where the biggest trans issue was, Trump won and McCrory lost, underperforming Trump by 5% in large part due to bathroom bill backlash. So it couldn't have been that big of a pro-Trump issue since it cost a Republican votes and the election.
posted by chris24 at 2:55 PM on March 4, 2017 [11 favorites]

He's been repeatedly referred to as a "top spy" by intelligence officials though.

Yeah, and the Lizza piece has Michael McFaul and Strobe Talbott pushing back against that. I have no reason to believe one camp over another -- though someone's obviously wrong.

I just think that -- both from a solid-fact-based perspective and a more purely strategic perspective -- it might be more useful to lead with "Why are they lying about talking to this guy?" rather than "What are they talking to this guy that some people I've heard say is a spy?"
posted by neroli at 2:56 PM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

Oh for heaven's sake, being an ambassador is being a top spy. It's right there in the contract.
posted by stonepharisee at 2:58 PM on March 4, 2017 [12 favorites]

For what it's worth, I did a ton of doorknocking in a state that Obama won twice but swung to Trump, and I never heard *anything* about trans people. Like, I can't recall a single time it came up, and I had a spiel prepared about it in case it did.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:59 PM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

Yeah, I'm not sure "I was talking with the Russian ambassador about trading our RNC position on Ukraine for hacked DNC emails" is any better/different than "I was talking with a Russian spy about trading our RNC position on Ukraine for hacked DNC emails."
posted by chris24 at 3:00 PM on March 4, 2017 [13 favorites]

-- Current and former US intelligence officials have described Kislyak as a top spy and recruiter of spies, a notion that Russian officials have dismissed.

This is such a chickenshit accusation for CNN to make. Who are these current and former "US intelligence officials" making this accusation? We don't know, they're too chickenshit to speak on the record. What is the basis for their accusation? None given, you're just supposed to trust them, these honorable people who won't even put their names to their mud slinging.
posted by indubitable at 3:01 PM on March 4, 2017

Let me put it quite bluntly. If people voted for Trump over Clinton because they were panicky over there being Too Many Non-White People Entering The Country, Too Much Acknowledgment of Trans People Existing In Public, and Too Much Emphasis On Putting Heat On Police Who Were Caught On Camera Brutalizing Non-White People, then those people are too fucking racist and/or stupid to reach with any logical argument.

I am not categorizing you as one of those people, msalt. I want to state that clearly so that it's not misinterpreted. But Fear of a Black Planet should remain a good Public Enemy album, not an election swinger. I find it hard to imagine that there were a lot of people out there who were horribly offended by those issues who weren't firmly in the Republican camp to start with. And if they WERE 'moderates' horribly offended by those issues, there is nothing that can be said to them to bring them back without shredding the dignity and rights of an awful lot of people and offending anyone who is an actual card-carrying progressive.
posted by delfin at 3:02 PM on March 4, 2017 [35 favorites]

The ambassador is head of the Rezidentura. Of course he's a spy! Doesn't anybody watch The Americans?
posted by Justinian at 3:02 PM on March 4, 2017 [24 favorites]

In Australia the legal theory is that the government are ministers of the Crown,

In theory, the Sovereign in the United States of America is "The People", and everything is delegated by them to various local, state, and federal jurisdictions via some form of "democratic republicanism"

In theory
posted by mikelieman at 3:02 PM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

This is such a chickenshit accusation for CNN to make. Who are these current and former "US intelligence officials" making this accusation? We don't know, they're too chickenshit to speak on the record. What is the basis for their accusation? None given, you're just supposed to trust them, these honorable people who won't even put their names to their mud slinging.

That is Donnies talking point too.
posted by futz at 3:03 PM on March 4, 2017 [10 favorites]

these honorable people who won't even put their names to their mud slinging.

I just posted Egg saying live on CNN Kislyak is a spy and recruiter. How much more on the record do you want from CNN or a source? And as stated earlier, does it really matter if they're negotiating to trade Ukraine for hacked emails with a Russian spy or ambassador?
posted by chris24 at 3:04 PM on March 4, 2017 [17 favorites]

In theory

Continuing...

In practical terms... "Kentucky Bourbon. Brownest of the brown liquors. What's that? You want me to drink you? But I'm in the middle of a trial!"
posted by mikelieman at 3:04 PM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

Goddammit Justinian, I was just going to post that!
posted by Ber at 3:04 PM on March 4, 2017

That's kinda part-and-parcel of HUMINT though indubitable - however chickenshit it may be, it is SOP
posted by Golem XIV at 3:05 PM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

McMuffin swoops in like a bald LOTR eagle

We're gonna start having to call him McGuffin.

(Edit: I guess the ring is more a McGuffin than the eagles, but now I'm imagining all the ways McMullin could become a McGuffin and I'm watching a Hitchcock movie based on current events in my head, and McMullin ends up president in this movie, installed by James Comey portrayed by Cary Grant, who is playing a very deep game indeed.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:08 PM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

In theory, the Sovereign in the United States of America is "The People"

in practice, the sovereign is "the people you went to high school with and made your life miserable"

seriously, all non u s people - you cannot understand our system or society until you've gone to our schools
posted by pyramid termite at 3:11 PM on March 4, 2017 [9 favorites]

"...[cheetoh] pretty much guaranteed no one can be charged for leaking the existence of this FISA warrant."

not at all. if you hold information in a classified billet there are clear policies that an incident in no way justifies further release. even when info is declassified it has to go through a public affairs channel to get to the press. this is why the plame sitch was such bullshit. 'everyone knew she was an operator' in no way nullifies one's security guidelines.
posted by j_curiouser at 3:15 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

Who is this Deep Throat guy? Nobody knows, he's too chickenshit to speak on the record. You're just supposed to trust these honorable people who won't even put their names to their mud slinging.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 3:16 PM on March 4, 2017 [13 favorites]

Apparently yesterday, the AP published Karen Pence's email address.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:19 PM on March 4, 2017

I guess we can't say he's not staffing the State Department now. He's just staffing it with Fox & Friends.

Report: Fox News anchor Heather Nauert to join Trump State Dept

Fox News anchor Heather Nauert has been hired by the State Department to be its spokeswoman, according to a report Saturday.

Nauert accepted the job this week, Bloomberg News reported, citing two sources who asked not to be identified because the decision hadn't been formally announced.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:23 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

If the already glacial pace of civil and human rights progress in the US is the thing Republicans/conservatives demand that we "slow down" as the price for them to help get rid of the fucking malicious, incompetent, embarrassing, loonytunes menace to the republic that they elected and enabled and supported, then we have a problem, because as far as I'm concerned, that's a non-negotiable item.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:24 PM on March 4, 2017 [34 favorites]

Bloomberg News: Communications on Trump's wire tap allegations are on lock down while White House legal staff figure out what should be said, I'm told.

I can't even imagine being that staff today.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:26 PM on March 4, 2017 [18 favorites]

Who is this Deep Throat guy? Nobody knows, he's too chickenshit to speak on the record. You're just supposed to trust these honorable people who won't even put their names to their mud slinging.

Well, we now know that at least one of them was named Donald Trump. He spoke to CNN demanding he be identified only as "senior administration official."

Ironically (thanks Alanis), this was exactly four days after Trump excoriated the press for printing the words of unidentified administration officials without providing names.
posted by JackFlash at 3:30 PM on March 4, 2017

I can't even imagine being that staff today.

Kind of like how I can't imagine what it's like to be trapped in a sunken submarine on the seafloor as the bulkhead starts to creak and prop from the pressure. Except in the case of the submariners I also feel bad for them.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:30 PM on March 4, 2017 [28 favorites]

So do I understand today right? Either off his own bat or at the instigation of Jared Kushner, Trump tweeted something about how Obama had wire-tapped Trump Tower during the election? And because he has alleged this, Obama has issued a denial and now the Trump administration is trying to find out if there were judicial orders to do this? And possibly release those orders? And they shouldn't be able to do t his because the president can't just grab legal material that pertains to an investigation of the White House?

And all this is happening either because of some deep "smash the administrative state" game by Trump's people or because Trump is a giant baby?

I wish I'd understood how good I had it up through November 8 - I would have made sure to appreciate everything more.
posted by Frowner at 3:32 PM on March 4, 2017 [78 favorites]

I wish I'd understood how good I had it up through November 8 - I would have made sure to appreciate everything more.

It's with that thought in mind that I now make sure to appreciate plentiful and varied foods, hot showers, and the semblance of the rule of law.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:34 PM on March 4, 2017 [61 favorites]

Kind of like how I can't imagine what it's like to be trapped in a sunken submarine on the seafloor as the bulkhead starts to creak and prop from the pressure. Except in the case of the submariners I also feel bad for them.

The Kursk Administration
posted by rhizome at 3:35 PM on March 4, 2017 [9 favorites]

giant baby or giantest baby
posted by poffin boffin at 3:35 PM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

giant baby or giantest baby

whichever is bigger. the tRump likes biggerest.
posted by futz at 3:38 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

So utterly out of nowhere, Don Cheadle decided to use this moment to drop an accusation about Trump once using a racial slur (yes, it's the one you think it is) in a sexual comment to Cheadle's friend's father at an event at Doral. Just so we can throw that on top of the garbage fire tonight, I guess.
posted by zachlipton at 3:39 PM on March 4, 2017 [19 favorites]

bigly baby
posted by pyramid termite at 3:40 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

I wish I'd understood how good I had it up through November 8 - I would have made sure to appreciate everything more.

Yeah, remember those innocent days when "our long national nightmare is over" was a ha-ha Ford-referencing joke? Now I hope I live long enough to say it for real while weeping in relief.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:41 PM on March 4, 2017 [11 favorites]

Trump’s New Russia Scandal Defense Is to Pose as the Victim of Obama
But intellectual coherence or consistency are not baseline requirements for the messaging task Trump needs. If the Russia scandal continues to produce revelations of unethical or unpatriotic behavior by his campaign, he will need a response that can rally the conservative base behind him (and thus make Republicans in Congress reluctant to support independent investigations or even impeachment proceedings.) Turning the charge against Obama does that for him. It reframes the issue as a matter of the hated Obama abusing his power to discredit Trump. Any information flowing from the scandal is therefore presumptively tainted by its association with the former president.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:45 PM on March 4, 2017 [9 favorites]

Kind of like how I can't imagine what it's like to be trapped in a sunken submarine on the seafloor as the bulkhead starts to creak and prop from the pressure. Except in the case of the submariners I also feel bad for them.

The Hunt for Red November
posted by Golem XIV at 4:05 PM on March 4, 2017 [11 favorites]

Blue November, I'd think...
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:10 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Watching the Trumpster fire burn itself out would be pretty entertaining, if it weren't sitting right next to our house.

If we could somehow insulate the country from the adverse effects of having Pol Potbelly and his Traveling Clownshow re-enact The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, it'd be a fun way to spend a Friday night.

Yes, yes, it's a mixed metaphor, but given the state of things, I feel it can be overlooked...
posted by darkstar at 4:10 PM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

Now that we've blown our Saturday on Trump's latest Twitter shitshow, Marcy Wheeler unpacks the conspiratorial game of telephone in Bannon’s rag that made Left, Right, and POTUS go crazy. It begins, in Wheeler's analysis, with Louise Mensch reporting on the weird Alfa Bank server story last November, is filtered through the National Review Online in January, and then gets puked up yesterday in Breitbart, which, as we all know, is Trump's priority source of intelligence information. The result, Wheeler, enumerates is:

1. Trump’s Attorney General, who claims he had already decided to recuse, recused after his nomination lies were exposed, meaning he no longer controls the investigation into his boss
2. A misleading article written in response to that recusal led Trump to claim he was being targeted
3. Based on the claim, Trump sent out his WHCO to find a FISA order probably not targeting him but probably targeting his aides
4. Having just been deprived of visibility and control over the investigation, Trump is forcibly obtaining another way to control it

It all fits Trump's time-tested Twitter tactics of pre-emptive framing of a new issue/fake news, diversion from real issues, deflecting to attack a different target, and launching a trial balloon to test public opinion. Tuesday's presidential pivot feels like years ago, doesn't it?
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:20 PM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

* Smash and grab everything you can and pull laws and courts super hard right
* Leave in a flurry of controversy, accusations and denial
* Replacement takes over
* GOP says that it's a shame that all that craziness happened but it is time for everyone to come together under our New Responsible Leader who will carry on with 99% of what Team Pepe rammed through
* Half the Dems and media go durrrrrr okay

We are still in step one.
posted by delfin at 4:25 PM on March 4, 2017 [46 favorites]

Tuesday's presidential pivot

There was no pivot. It was obvious even on Tuesday. I don't know what people like Van Jones were thinking... dude acted like Trump's speech gave him multiple orgasms while single handedly bringing about peace in the Middle East AND giving his dishes a streak-free shine. Sure, Trump managed to read a teleprompter without accidentally using a racial slur but that didn't make him the second coming of Abraham Lincoln.

No pivot. No pivot. You're the pivot.
posted by Justinian at 4:25 PM on March 4, 2017 [54 favorites]

Insofar as conspiracies go, this one is getting really really crazy. TPM: New Development on the Michael Cohen 'Peace Plan' Meeting

Last week I wrote about Michael Cohen and his extensive network of personal and business relationships in the Ukrainian-American emigre community. One of those was a man named Alex Oronov, who runs a major agribusiness concern in Ukraine. Oronov was a partner in the ethanol business Cohen and Cohen's brother Bryan set up in Ukraine about a decade ago. Oronov is Bryan Cohen's father-in-law. Today we learned that Oronov apparently organized that 'peace plan' meeting that brought together Ukrainian MP Artemenko, Cohen and Felix Sater. About four hours ago Andrii Artemenko, the Ukrainian parliamentarian who came to New York with that 'peace plan', went on Facebook to announce that Alex Oronov has died.

posted by zachlipton at 4:28 PM on March 4, 2017 [35 favorites]

At this point a "sanity break" is just closing your eyes for a minute while the monster creeps closer.

If you take a break, it's kind of even worse to have a bigger avalanche land on you at once.

Lying about talking to Kislyak -- probably pretty fucking shady

So is Merriam-Webster going to be tweeting about the word shade next?

At least we'll all die knowing that Trump actually hated being President.

Yup.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:30 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

giant baby or giantest baby

Bigliest baby.
posted by essexjan at 4:30 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Delfin: If people voted for Trump over Clinton because they were panicky over there being Too Many Non-White People Entering The Country, Too Much Acknowledgment of Trans People Existing In Public, and Too Much Emphasis On Putting Heat On Police Who Were Caught On Camera Brutalizing Non-White People, then those people are too fucking racist and/or stupid to reach with any logical argument.

I am not categorizing you as one of those people, msalt. I want to state that clearly so that it's not misinterpreted. But Fear of a Black Planet should remain a good Public Enemy album, not an election swinger. I find it hard to imagine that there were a lot of people out there who were horribly offended by those issues who weren't firmly in the Republican camp to start with.

Thanks, I appreciate that. It's a different question though. I wasn't discussing "why people voted for Trump." The question was, was there a perception that things were moving too fast?

I don't think the vast majority of Americans gave one second of thought to trans rights or in many cases had even heard of trans until Caitlin Jenner came out, and that was 2015. Also, Clinton never pushed back effectively against Trump's false picture of undocumented immigrants flooding across the border. I'd wager most people here have had frustrating arguments about BLM with people who should have known better.

And very skilled propagandists at Fox and Breitbart understood and exploited this perception.

I think sometimes, we don't realize how fast change appears because *we* knew it was a good idea for so long before it actually happened. But for apolitical or nonaligned people, gay marriage and legal pot and Cuba's OK now and Obamacare all happened very quickly.

And even people who ultimately come out on the right side take a while to process stuff. Gay marriage is the perfect example -- it fueled a massive backlash in 2004, and was basically a non-issue ten years later when even the Roberts Court couldn't deny it was obviously a right.
posted by msalt at 4:31 PM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

So, I had a five hour improv workshop today and then went to dinner. I do not get my phone out during workshops so that I can focus. I also did not check the phone during dinner.

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON? (I love everyone for keeping this updated so I can catch up. Strange things afoot, indeed.)

Oronov is dead? THIS IS MY SHOCKED FACE.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 4:35 PM on March 4, 2017 [12 favorites]

I dunno angrycat, Jones stuck to his assessment the next day and iirc implied that the dems should encourage this new trump. I'll have to go search for the interview but CNN had a segment called "Van Jones Defends Himself" or similar.
posted by futz at 4:38 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

So do I understand today right? Either off his own bat or at the instigation of Jared Kushner, Trump tweeted something about how Obama had wire-tapped Trump Tower during the election?

It's worth noting that Jared Kushner and Michael Flynn were just revealed two days ago -- by an administration leak -- to have met secretly with Sergei Kislyak in Trump Tower in December.

So it may be Kushner rather than Trump who realized that calls he made to Russians from Trump Tower were probably recorded and transcribed, and wanted to preemptively undercut them.
posted by msalt at 4:47 PM on March 4, 2017 [15 favorites]

I mean, people do die on their own, and I don't want to turn into one of those "Clinton death list" conspiracy people, but the guy who organized the secret Ukraine "peace plan" meeting is longstanding friend, family, and business partner of the President's personal lawyer and the pro-Russian Ukranian lawmaker and now he's turned up dead.
posted by zachlipton at 4:48 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

I look forward to the time when the press stops breathlessly chasing every bullshit claim that Trump vomits forth. No denials were necessary for this wiretapping claim, as no evidence was presented. If he had a reputation for telling the truth, then they would need to follow up. But he is a compulsive liar, and should be treated like one. Doing more than simply reporting what he said just perpetuates the fiction that these tweets are more than the fevered ramblings of a nutjob conspiracy theorist. It also cedes control of the narrative, allowing the administration to dilute the story that counts -- the Trump campaign's dealings with Russia.
posted by Killick at 4:50 PM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

Unexpected deaths of six Russian diplomats in four months triggers conspiracy theories
posted by overglow at 4:55 PM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my fillings replaced with radio transmitters. SAD!
posted by uosuaq at 5:11 PM on March 4, 2017 [21 favorites]

We're not in spy novel country, we're far beyond. Nothing happening today would be accepted as realistic 6 months ago
posted by mumimor at 5:13 PM on March 4, 2017 [51 favorites]

I don't want to turn into one of those "Clinton death list" conspiracy people

Well, there's absolutely no evidence that the Clintons have historically murdered inconvenient people. In fairness, there's also no evidence Trump's crew has historically murdered inconvenient people. OTOH, it's pretty definitively established that Vladimir Putin murders inconvenient people regularly, and an awful lot of these deaths have been of people who he could easily reach.

So if you believe that Team Trump is killing these people themselves, then, yeah, maybe you're succumbing to conspiracy theory (for one thing, they are not nearly subtle enough to do it without leaving their greasy fingerprints everywhere). If you think Putin is killing them to clean up some Trump-related loose ends, then that seems to be a reasonably well-supported if not proven hypothesis.
posted by jackbishop at 5:17 PM on March 4, 2017 [36 favorites]

Unexpected deaths of six Russian diplomats in four months triggers conspiracy theories

I know it's probably just bad timing but then again, Putin and his buddies killed everyone that Aldrich Ames betrayed with reckless abandon. I wouldn't really expect any sort of subtlety three decades later.

Well, there's absolutely no evidence that the Clintons have historically murdered inconvenient people.

If it was even remotely true that Clinton killed people, Anthony Weiner would have been six feet under for years.
posted by Talez at 5:20 PM on March 4, 2017 [25 favorites]

I look forward to the time when the press stops breathlessly chasing every bullshit claim that Trump vomits forth.

The NYT headline is "Trump, Offering No Proof, Says Obama Tapped His Phobes". They didn't even get to the verb before they called him out.
posted by Etrigan at 5:21 PM on March 4, 2017 [37 favorites]

"Trump, Offering No Proof, Says Obama Tapped His Phobes"

Delicious.
posted by porpoise at 5:24 PM on March 4, 2017 [16 favorites]

Many, many people have told me that my phobes are really, really good. Believe me,
posted by bz at 5:27 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

Another snapshot of how trump operates. A look into what he says vs. what he does among other tidbits.

Trump met with Scarborough before addressing Congress ~ Aides claimed he swore off 'Morning Joe,' but Trump's affinities are hard to track, even for those closest to him.

-- But last Tuesday, the morning of his well-received speech to a joint session of Congress, Trump sat down in the Oval Office with none other than Joe Scarborough of "Morning Joe" fame, spending a full 15 minutes chatting with the anchor, an MSNBC spokesperson confirmed.

-- Aides have also tried to de-emphasize the president's friendship with Chris Ruddy, the CEO of Newsmax Television, who, in a CNN appearance last month, criticized chief of staff Reince Priebus as ineffective...But Ruddy, who has known Trump for more than a decade, talks to the president frequently — including a 30-minute meeting in the Oval Office on Wednesday. And some of Trump's aides feared that Ruddy was speaking on the president's behalf when he criticized Priebus on television, because the two men had seen each other for 30 minutes the night before at Mar-a-Lago.

-- Trump keeps his own cellphone and is often alone in the West Wing at night, where he answers calls and dials people. He will sometimes ask his secretary to set up a meeting or put him on the phone with someone after seeing that person on TV.

"He talks to people in New York that his aides in the White House have no clue who they even are," said a person who regularly talks to Trump. "They've never even met some of these people, but the president listens to them."

And more of the same with Anthony Scaramucci, Corey Lewandowski, and Chris Christie. Considering the trips to Florida, golfing, tweeting, hyper monitoring news about himself, and the late night lonely hearts club phone calls, when the fuck is he doing any actual work? Considering the damage that he has done when he does work perhaps we should be grateful.
posted by futz at 5:28 PM on March 4, 2017 [21 favorites]

The NYT headline is "Trump, Offering No Proof, Says Obama Tapped His Phones". They didn't even get to the verb before they called him out.

YES. More of this, please!

I know it's going to offend the sensibilities of many journalists who don't want to be seen as taking sides, or heaven forbid, losing access. But if our republic is going to survive, I feel that those with the biggest megaphones have to be absolutely ruthless about calling out the lies when they see them.

In the above case, it's the "offering no proof" that definitely should be front loaded in the headline. I so want to give that editor a hug.
posted by darkstar at 5:28 PM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

"Tapped his phobes" is the best improvement by typo of all time
posted by Caxton1476 at 5:30 PM on March 4, 2017 [12 favorites]

Even if Oronov's death is a complete natural coincidence, which it well could be, there's still a story here about someone closely connected to Michael Cohen, the President's personal lawyer, arranging a secret meeting with Cohen, Sater, and a pro-Russian Ukranian lawmaker to broker a plan to effectively give up and hand over Crimea, a plan that was to be brought to Flynn. Everything about this story is crazy and suspicious even without the guy dropping dead a month later.
posted by zachlipton at 5:30 PM on March 4, 2017 [15 favorites]

From a ways upthread:

The new model favored by republicans, BTW, is less capitalism of the free market kind and more corporate statism - with Trump and cronies having a finger in every pie and an erasure of boundries between the interests of Trump/the state/favored corporations.

Yes, precisely. And what's the other word for corporate statism? That's right!
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:35 PM on March 4, 2017 [36 favorites]

I don't agree with the overall narrative of "things are changing too fast" but things have changed really quickly on the transgender front specifically, and I'm saying that because those changes are what's made it possible for me to accept myself as trans and start transitioning.

Like. The first time I seriously considered transitioning was in 2005. I was too scared.
In 2012, Glee half-assed introducing their first transgender character.
In 2013, Chelsea Manning announced herself as female, "Orange is the New Black" introduced everyone to Laverne Cox, and in Colorado a court ruled in favor of a 6-year-old trans girl. All in one year. That was the tipping point for the mainstream. That was also the year the first bathroom bill was introduced in Arizona.
The Obama administration didn't take a public stance on trans issues until 2016, when North Carolina's bathroom bill forced them to.

The changes that have happened in the last three years are the entire reason I am able to see a future for myself outside of the gender I was given. The response to the bathroom bills took me completely by surprise. I didn't think anyone stood with us.

so I hope this explains a) why people say that things are changing too fast, and also b) why when you say that it makes people want to scream.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 5:50 PM on March 4, 2017 [102 favorites]

HOLD THE PHOBES!!!
posted by Artw at 5:56 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

Anyone who does not think that Obamacare is socialism doesn't have any idea what socialism means. Obamacare takes money from rich people and gives it to poor people. Anyone saying that isn't socialism hasn't met the Republican Party.

Hi, actual socialist here. A basic function of the modern welfare state is not socialism.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:01 PM on March 4, 2017 [39 favorites]

The NYT headline is "Trump, Offering No Proof, Says Obama Tapped His Phones". They didn't even get to the verb before they called him out.

YES. More of this, please!

The snarky pedant in me is really disappointed that it didn't say "Tappped His Phones"
posted by Mchelly at 6:04 PM on March 4, 2017 [12 favorites]

A former top aide to Reagan, Bush, Kemp:

@BruceBartlett
Take Nixon in the deepest days of his Watergate paranoia, subtract 50 IQ points, add Twitter, and you have Trump today.
posted by chris24 at 6:06 PM on March 4, 2017 [95 favorites]

Trump has the advantage over Nixon that he's a teetotaler. For now, as far as we know.
posted by Coventry at 6:07 PM on March 4, 2017

So all this time Trump was a homophone?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:09 PM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

Dementia seems a lot like angry drunk though, it seems.
posted by Artw at 6:09 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

when the fuck is he doing any actual work?

There was an era when the president didn't do that much actual work. In fairness, that was also an era before ICBMs. The US can mostly function with an absentee elected monarch and a skeleton senior executive branch over a career civil service. It won't function well, but that's not saying much, and that's where we are.
posted by holgate at 6:12 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Would Trump doing work actually be preferable to Trump not doing work? He actively makes everything he touches worse.
posted by Justinian at 6:15 PM on March 4, 2017 [10 favorites]

The Hunt for Red November
posted by Golem XIV at 4:05 PM on March 4

no more calls please we have a winner
posted by petebest at 6:18 PM on March 4, 2017 [11 favorites]

there's still a story here about someone closely connected to Michael Cohen, the President's personal lawyer, arranging a secret meeting with Cohen, Sater, and a pro-Russian Ukranian lawmaker to broker a plan to effectively give up and hand over Crimea, a plan that was to be brought to Flynn.

So long as our top justice official didn't lie under oath about it.
posted by petebest at 6:20 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Justinian are you responding to me b/c I said:

Considering the damage that he has done when he does work perhaps we should be grateful.
posted by futz at 6:20 PM on March 4, 2017

"The new model favored by republicans, BTW, is less capitalism of the free market kind and more corporate statism - with Trump and cronies having a finger in every pie and an erasure of boundries between the interests of Trump/the state/favored corporations."

Yes, precisely. And what's the other word for corporate statism? That's right!

There's no real reason to limit yourself to a particular time and place that is no longer ours and is, mostly, outside of living memory. For a contemporary example, Egypt follows this model.

So we could be like Egypt if we try hard enough.
posted by indubitable at 6:23 PM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

So we could be like Egypt if we try hard enough.

Yeah, look at all the foreign delegations who booked stuff in the DC hotel. They know clientelism when they see it, and if the US is now that kind of state, they'll run with it until things change back to something different.
posted by holgate at 6:38 PM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

> The ambassador is head of the Rezidentura. Of course he's a spy! Doesn't anybody watch The Americans?

We love it, but I think Season 5 is going to be tough to find time for with this riveting real-life version of the show going on. I know this isn't an original thought, but seriously, how are the show's writers going to compete with this shit? Nothing we watch on The Americans is going to make us pull out our Rapid Expatriation Kits, but the things going on in our own government right now are legit terrifying. Like, be honest, with all this cloak and dagger shit happening, would anyone be surprised if news broke that Carter Page got caught in a Foggy Bottom hotel room with a dismembered Russian spy stuffed in a suitcase? Suspension of disbelief is no longer an issue with the show, that's for sure.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:41 PM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

> Can Millennials Save the Democratic Party?

Baby boomers tell millennials, "Thank God we’re not in charge anymore”
posted by homunculus at 6:43 PM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

We love it, but I think Season 5 is going to be tough to find time for with this riveting real-life version of the show going on. I know this isn't an original thought, but seriously, how are the show's writers going to compete with this shit?

Call it The Americans : The Next Generation and set it at Mar-A-Lago in 2017?
posted by nubs at 6:47 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

> I mean, Trump's election was the first major election after the Voting Rights Act was gutted because, as John Roberts put it, it 'wasn't necessary anymore.' That article's very much worth reading if you're unaware of just how much effort towards voter suppression was put in place after that decision.

The GOP’s Attack on Voting Rights Was the Most Under-Covered Story of 2016. This was the first presidential election in 50 years without the full protections of the Voting Rights Act.
posted by homunculus at 6:50 PM on March 4, 2017 [54 favorites]

Russian foreign ministry responds to Sarah Jessica Parker Sex and the City meme

#Zakharova: If #SarahJessicaParker desperately wants to meet Russian Ambassador to US -anything is possible. Sergey Ivanovich will be happy pic.twitter.com/GhAmnuQBn5
— MFA Russia RU (@mfa_russia) March 3, 2017
posted by moody cow at 6:56 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

Everything about this story is crazy and suspicious even without the guy dropping dead a month later.

It's crazy and suspicious that this guy dropped dead, but I don't even know what level of crazy when he's the latest in a long line of people connected to the Steele dossier to drop dead in the last three months.
posted by gladly at 6:58 PM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

The GOP’s Attack on Voting Rights Was the Most Under-Covered Story of 2016.
Partly because the Democratic Party and its standard-bearers didn't put much emphasis on it. Obama has his own project on it and the Perez/Ellison DNC tandem have both made statements suggesting it that they may not repeat THAT fatal mistake. It would be nice if the Texas Democrats put a major effort, following the passage of the scary Voter ID law there, to ensure that every potential eligible voter has a bulletproof ID.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:59 PM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

I think sometimes, we don't realize how fast change appears because *we* knew it was a good idea for so long before it actually happened. But for apolitical or nonaligned people, gay marriage and legal pot and Cuba's OK now and Obamacare all happened very quickly.

The thing is, the people who get most bent out of shape about this stuff are precisely the people least affected by it. They're not upset because there are actually hordes of trans people invading their bathrooms or something, they're upset because they think something they don't understand is happening some place they're not familiar with, under conditions they can't control. It's the IRL version of "somebody is wrong on the internet."

These are real fears, obviously, but they're not fears about real things. If they were fears about real things, this would all be a lot easier, because those things aren't actually that scary. The people for whom "things are moving too fast" are people for whom those things are abstract, foreign, and essentially irrelevant. People who have no skin in the game, so it's just a game.

I don't think that creating and maintaining that sort of anxiety is something that happens organically. It has a lot to do the the warped lens through which they're viewing the world, whether that's their own racist or homophobic fixation, or the fixations they're marinating in courtesy of FOX News, et. al.

I'd very much like to accommodate the anxieties of everybody within shouting distance of consensus reality, but I really don't get the sense that those people are the problem here. We can't accommodate people who are so monstrously misinformed that they want to murder their fellow citizens, or who are attracted to authoritarian power because they're barking mad.
posted by dirge at 7:12 PM on March 4, 2017 [70 favorites]

The thing is, the people who get most bent out of shape about this stuff are precisely the people least affected by it.

Yep. But thanks to the wonder of the internets, they are affected by it even though it's remote. That's the great flattening: the same forces that tell LGBTQ people that they're not alone in small-town America are the ones that tell people that scary LGBTQ people are lurking around their public bathrooms.
posted by holgate at 7:15 PM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

It would be nice if the Texas Democrats put a major effort

I'm not sure how strongly I can point out that the Texas Democratic Party receives very little support, comparative to Texas' population size and influence on national politics, from the national Democratic Party. The DNC doesn't even help us find candidates here, let alone help fund local races (which include many House races)! Hell, I know Battleground Texas (which is not officially an arm of the DNC) ruffled a bunch of local Dem feathers when it rolled in because it ignored existing hierarchies and relationships, but on the gripping hand it's one of very few organizations that bothered to dedicate any money and support to progressive Texans.

We're doing our best--organizations like Equality Texas and our arm of the ACLU and Battleground Texas and Annie's List are doing some kickass work, without much in the way of major support from out of state--and I can think of two or three likely very strong candidates for local House races which are building very quickly even now on progressive Texan social media, although neither is in Austin so I won't be able to vote for either one. Equality Texas has actually apparently been funding Houston's efforts to litigate its right to extend spousal benefits to all married spouses, same sex or otherwise, more or less single-handedly. Our immigrants' rights organizations are trying to hold the line. Texas in particular is dealing with a lot of attacks from our state legislature flying fast and hard right now, because they're trying to show North Carolina who can be the most theocratic, I guess.

So if you want us to put in a major effort on this thing, more major than we are I mean, could you in California and safe blue states fucking send us a little bit of cash so we can fund it? I swear if you want me to I can point you to people trying to protect any group you can think of here, but we all feel very much on our own against a fairly powerful existing force, and while our Dems have fire and spines and all (especially with even a scrap of constituent backing!), they can't do everything with nothing.

I'm gonna go back to making my fabric banner now, and then we'll see. Tomorrow I have a town hall from my Congressional Rep, who heard us all gleefully begging him to show the other Reps what for and has scheduled two meetings this weekend. They're by name only, to people who have specifically asked with one plus one, because he's concerned that otherwise we'll overload the capacity of any structure that gets reserved and be a collective fire hazard; my partner and I are planning to show up two hours early tomorrow while my roomie sews the banner we've been plotting all night tonight.
posted by sciatrix at 7:20 PM on March 4, 2017 [73 favorites]

We love it, but I think Season 5 is going to be tough to find time for with this riveting real-life version of the show going on. I know this isn't an original thought, but seriously, how are the show's writers going to compete with this shit?

Why not say "fuck it." Cast the Biff Tannen actor or someone similar and younger.

Have Elizabeth and Philip tell the tale of how the KGB turned Donald Trump in the 80's
posted by ocschwar at 7:26 PM on March 4, 2017 [13 favorites]

Partly because the Democratic Party and its standard-bearers didn't put much emphasis on it.

Partly because HRC led every poll by a large majority and anyway - people are not stupid enough to; okay *Republican women* are not stupid or guileless enough to turn out and actually vote for an ignorant, serial-lying, sex predator with a bad wig and a bad spray tan with little weaselly white eyes. Who's also in bed with straight-up Nazis, frauds, and quite possibly the Russian FSB.

That would be tantamount to destroying the blessed country, so - hey, look, the GOP had every chance to get out from under that loser so it's on them. HRC will appoint a new SCOTUS judge and we'll get this voting rights thing fixed.

And then there was screaming and things went very very wrong
posted by petebest at 7:30 PM on March 4, 2017 [12 favorites]

does anyone else feel like they've read way ahead in the script and they're just twiddling their thumbs waiting for the big action scene to arrive?

like this year is discrediting foreshadowing as a technique by being so heavy-handed
posted by murphy slaw at 7:31 PM on March 4, 2017 [38 favorites]

Hugh Hewitt, on CNN, saying Trump's tweetstorm means we need a special prosecutor -- to investigate Obama.

Just like that, deranged tweet becomes party line, made up out of whole cloth to cover for the Emperor's lack of clothes.

This is madness. They think they can turn this into an Obama scandal. And I'm terrified that the press will go along with it.
posted by saturday_morning at 7:31 PM on March 4, 2017 [37 favorites]

Corey Lewandowski outright accused the Obama Administration of bugging the meeting with Kislyak in Sessions' own office, a claim he cannot possibly have any evidence for (video). I'm sure Trump will love him for saying it.
posted by zachlipton at 7:32 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

Season 5 is going to be tough

Isn't the timing about right for the early stages of grooming a Manchurian candidate, who doesn't pan out because of his own catastrophic business incompetence, but foreshadows a much darker period in American history to come decades later?

(or, on second read, what ocschwar said)
posted by dirge at 7:32 PM on March 4, 2017

Man, some people really want to lock up Obama: Lewandowski just said the feds eavesdropped on an office meeting btwn Sessions and the Russian Amb. (Link goes to tweet with embedded video from Fox).

Good old Roger Stone: The buck stops here. Obama responsible for illegal surveillance of @realDonaldTrump - must be charged, convicted and jailed. (All text is quoted here -- no need to descend into the sewer.)
posted by maudlin at 7:32 PM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

Partly because the Democratic Party and its standard-bearers didn't put much emphasis on it.

Well, we can add one more thing to the list of issues that are the Democrats' fault.

Any others you want to suggest?
posted by steady-state strawberry at 7:33 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Remember in October when Hugh Hewitt was calling for Trump to drop out of the race? Those were the days.
posted by zachlipton at 7:35 PM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

uh oh, they're throwing everything at the wall to see what will stick.

surely this means that all trump scandals will be proven false as early as monday.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:36 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

I literally stepped away for 2 hours.

What the fuck.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:37 PM on March 4, 2017 [24 favorites]

Blame mean ol' Obama? Really Paul Ryan? Seriously man these coked up kids are shitting on your car, man. You might wanna do something before everyone starts to think you're a part of - oh. You are a part of it. Right.

Well fuck you then.
posted by petebest at 7:37 PM on March 4, 2017

Wait, so Sessions lied to Congress and they're talking about prosecuting Obama?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:39 PM on March 4, 2017 [39 favorites]

Anyone who does not think that Obamacare is socialism doesn't have any idea what socialism means.

ain't no party like a vanguard party cause a vanguard party don't stop until the working class has freed itself from the chains of capitalism
posted by poffin boffin at 7:41 PM on March 4, 2017 [35 favorites]

Hey, all they want to do is either create or feed a group of truthers.
posted by rhizome at 7:41 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

uh oh, they're throwing everything at the wall to see what will stick.
...or, rather, throwing everything at the mirror...
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:41 PM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

Thread Fuck-O-Meter: Good
posted by petebest at 7:41 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

So Trump's associates likely are on tape cutting deals with the Russians during the campaign, and the surveillance is now likely to see the light of day. This should be good news.

And we should be able to have faith in the media and the public to distinguish between "the Obama administration" and "the FBI, while Obama was President", especially given the main reason the FBI was in the news this year.

So I shouldn't have this horrible sinking feeling.
posted by saturday_morning at 7:42 PM on March 4, 2017 [13 favorites]

So I shouldn't have this horrible sinking feeling

Yes you should, because we haven't seen what Bannon does when he's cornered.
posted by rhizome at 7:44 PM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

Socialism's just fine with conservatives as long as it's the military. All the free housing, clothing, and medical care you want!
posted by kirkaracha at 7:44 PM on March 4, 2017 [16 favorites]

I mean it doesn't have to be a horrible sinking feeling, there are plenty of other somatic manifestations of dread and a sense of impending doom that we have to choose from right now.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:45 PM on March 4, 2017 [11 favorites]

Wait, so Sessions lied to Congress and they're talking about prosecuting Obama?

Gotta prosecute somebody
posted by saturday_morning at 7:45 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Yes you should, because we haven't seen what Bannon does when he's cornered.

it it "big rails of coke"? i feel like it might be "big rails of coke".
posted by murphy slaw at 7:45 PM on March 4, 2017 [39 favorites]

he expresses his anal glands prolly
posted by poffin boffin at 7:46 PM on March 4, 2017 [68 favorites]

Why not say "fuck it." Cast the Biff Tannen actor or someone similar and younger.

Because it's Fox propaganda.
posted by Coventry at 7:47 PM on March 4, 2017

he expresses his anal glands prolly

the whole goddamned oval office will have to be sprayed down with tomato juice.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:48 PM on March 4, 2017 [24 favorites]

… They do realize that if a special prosecutor investigates the tapping of their phones, the special prosecutor will have to investigate what was said on the tapped phone calls? Right?
posted by fedward at 7:49 PM on March 4, 2017 [30 favorites]

Wait, so Sessions lied to Congress and they're talking about prosecuting Obama?

Gotta prosecute somebody

Gotta ~~prosecute~~ persecute somebody.
posted by futz at 7:49 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

the whole goddamned oval office will have to be sprayed down with tomato juice.

That's going to be an awkward AskMe.
posted by holgate at 7:49 PM on March 4, 2017 [16 favorites]

Yes you should, because we haven't seen what Bannon does when he's cornered.

Yeah, I'm thinking, "ink defense."
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 7:50 PM on March 4, 2017 [11 favorites]

if they can't get this obama thing to stick, the next strategy will be to confess to so many crimes that the special prosecutor can't tell what is real and what is made up
posted by murphy slaw at 7:51 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

Yes you should, because we haven't seen what Bannon does when he's cornered.

I feel like to be good at this you have to have a lot of practice being cornered by people who a) smell blood and b) are collectively relentless, in the way a swarm of ants is relentless, and Bannon's always been in the bush league until now.

I bet he's soft and weepy, like a rotting cheese.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:51 PM on March 4, 2017 [23 favorites]

the whole goddamned oval office will have to be sprayed down with tomato juice.

Surely the ofal office? And I hope they use tomato juice because it doesn't work.
posted by futz at 7:51 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

They do realize...

Nope.

Hold on, let me go back and read the rest of that sentence... Uh, yeah, definitely "nope."
posted by dirge at 7:51 PM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

I definitely think whatever Bannon emits, it'll be a liquid propelled in a fine aerosolized mist
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:52 PM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

"NOW they're gonna reveal Trump's undeniable misdeeds for all the world to see!" feels exactly like "Tomorrow Hillary will be president," and "Thank goodness George W Bush isn't gonna win," which were both local-to-Metafilter delusions that I fully participated in; and imagine my surprise when the buzz wore off and reality set in the following morning. So yeah, I'm gonna go with 'horrible sinking feeling' for the present, and we'll see what happens.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:53 PM on March 4, 2017 [65 favorites]

And we should be able to have faith in the media

The ones that shoved us in here through the False Equivalency Portal? The ones that continue to normalize and empower evildoing Republicans ('sup Dubz!) when the whole goddamn country's catching bigly fire and it's clear as day what's happening? Yeah, I mean they have a journalistic doodie. Gotta respect that. Something something informed electorate sweeps week.

Not to be too hard on the corporate news masters. They're just trying to sell trucks.

Let's see how USA Today, "The newspaper written for TV viewers" stands:
TOP STORIES
Thousands of supporters 'March 4 Trump' at rallies across USA
Pence wants apology from AP for releasing wife's email
Jerry Jones: Romo could remain with Cowboys
Russians become disillusioned with Trump

Sure.
posted by petebest at 7:54 PM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

I bet he's soft and weepy, like a rotting cheese

I'm thinking he'll lash out. They haven't used the "Obama is a Muslim" thing in a while, has Obama left and returned to the country since the immigration EO?
posted by rhizome at 7:55 PM on March 4, 2017

So yeah, I'm gonna go with 'horrible sinking feeling' for the present, and we'll see what happens.

The polity can remain irrational longer than you can remain sane, but it can't remain irrational forever.
posted by dirge at 7:55 PM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

People who "realize" things would have concluded that it is poor strategy to try to rebut reports that several of their associates are under investigation for collusion with a foreign power and/or lies about their contacts with said power by publicly announcing that they are the target of a counterintelligence investigation. I don't think the guy is any good at realizing the implications of things.
posted by zachlipton at 7:57 PM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

Obama is still quantitatively the most admired man in America. The Trump administration might decide to persecute him, and who knows how far they might get, but they do not have the power to make Obama any less liked by more than 27% of the electorate. This shit isn't gonna make 45 any more popular.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:58 PM on March 4, 2017 [14 favorites]

Wait, so Sessions lied to Congress and they're talking about prosecuting Obama?

Today, Trump met with Sessions and Homeland Security Secretary Kelly at Maralago, two agency heads that would be responsible for domestic wiretaps. If they are discussing abusing their offices to interfere in a Justice Department investigation about the Russians by deflecting attention to Obama, they have crossed into Nixon territory. Especially after Sessions said he would recuse himself.

What are the odds they didn't discuss the Russians or the wiretaps in their meeting?
posted by JackFlash at 7:59 PM on March 4, 2017 [18 favorites]

Russians become disillusioned with Trump

Always playing catch-up.
posted by nubs at 7:59 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

"Let's see how USA Today, "The newspaper written for TV viewers" stands: "

Isn't USA Today a pretty atypical example of a mainstream national newspaper?
posted by Selena777 at 8:00 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

On the "too fast" thing I think humans have a proclivity to live in insular patriarchal tribes warring with and enslaving one another on and off. It's kind of programmed in. But that programming can be over-ridden by ideals like justice, mercy, human rights, under the right conditions.

But it's not the default setting. Living in cosmopolitan cities, with all different kinds of people and all different family structures goes against a lot of human instincts.

We'll always be fighting those instincts. I really don't think it's the pace of change that's the problem so much as the extent. We're far enough from that kind of "old testament lifestyle that our instints are adapted for, so some fraction of people wre going to feel very uncomfortable, however quickly or slowly we get there.

I think the best we can do is appeal to their better instincts. Compassion, hospitality, etc. But it's not a war that can ever be finally won as long as humans are human. We just have to do our best in each generation.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:07 PM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

We definitely need Roger Stone to ride off into the sunset on the back of a giant bombardier beetle, or sink back down into his haunted swamp, or whatever he needs to do for a well earned rest.

I mean, how long can one man channel so much evil? We're talking "Demi-Lich of Roy Cohn" levels here.
posted by darkstar at 8:08 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

[USA Today doesn't publish on weekends, so what it puts on the website (and doesn't share with local Gannett papers) probably doesn't have as much impact as you'd expect.]
posted by holgate at 8:09 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Ok, LA Times (a tronc emission) headlines:

In court papers, Jeanie Buss says brother was 'completely unfit' to run Lakers' basketball operations

Diaz brothers, not called upon for UFC 209, instead meet with fans at cannabis shop

Republican Rep. Steve Knight met with protesters and boos during raucous town hall in Palmdale

Deportation of grandmother leaves a San Diego military family reeling

A true L.A. hero: For people dying on L.A. streets, he offers help, and he won't take no for an answer

It's fine for when we're not about to lose the country to a lunatic narcissist. (Wait, Steve Knight met with boos? Ahh - a play on words. Very good.)
posted by petebest at 8:09 PM on March 4, 2017

For fun, CNN, cause it's always fun:

Top stories
China slashes growth target to 6.5% in 2017
At least 110 die as fears of famine grow
New US travel ban could come Monday
Malaysia to expel N Korean envoy

posted by petebest at 8:13 PM on March 4, 2017

It's kind of programmed in.

You know what? It's just not for me. Or for anybody I choose to spend time with. It is built in, pretty clearly, for a small handful of people I've chosen to exclude from my life for precisely that reason.

I'll grant that there's some sort of unavoidable flaw in human nature there, but I just don't accept that it's normal. A small minority are just wired that way. Everybody else has to choose it, and work at it, or have it thrust upon them. Most people don't.
posted by dirge at 8:15 PM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

By Friday, Trump will accuse Obama of being Russian himself, placed in Kenya by master KGB spy Bill Ayers, as part of a master plan to hand the Presidency to Arnold Schwarzenegger.
posted by delfin at 8:17 PM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

So yeah, I'm gonna go with 'horrible sinking feeling' for the present, and we'll see what happens.
posted by Sing Or Swim

EPONYST-- wait. Is it
posted by prize bull octorok at 8:20 PM on March 4, 2017 [8 favorites]

For fun, CNN, cause it's always fun

petebest, the top stories that you listed are vastly different than the ones I found a few minutes ago. What header were those listed under? NOT defending cnn at all btw. Also, aren't so-called top stories based on page views?
posted by futz at 8:23 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Ok, LA Times (a tronc emission) headlines:

For fun, CNN, cause it's always fun:

OK look, obviously I'm as much of a pessimist as the next guy cf. my last few posts, but CNN.com rn is a giant banner saying "Trump's baseless wiretap claim: with no proof, Trump says Obama wiretapped him" and the LA Times' main feature is "Citing no evidence, Trump accuses Obama of tapping his phones during the election" alongside "Violence at Pro-Trump Rally", and well sure there are other smaller headlines on their pages too but they are allowed to do that
posted by saturday_morning at 8:24 PM on March 4, 2017 [26 favorites]

Thanks for actually checking, saturday_morning.
posted by flatluigi at 8:27 PM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

Meanwhile the Washington Post is promoting an analysis titled "Russia is the slow burn of the Trump administration, and it’s not going away."

Russia has become the slow burn of President Trump’s administration. It is the issue that he and his team cannot get beyond. They cannot get beyond it because they are skittish about accepting what is already known. They cannot get beyond it because they have not been as forthcoming as they could be about what they did. They cannot get beyond it because they don’t know what they don’t know.
[…]
This is a pattern that has compounded the administration’s problem. Trump apparently sees the entire issue as an attempt to delegitimize his presidency. The president also has continued to equivocate on the question of whether he truly believes the intelligence community’s findings. As a result, he and others have tried to wish away that something significant happened.

I'm curious what filtered version of that Trump will actually see.
posted by fedward at 8:28 PM on March 4, 2017 [15 favorites]

like this year is discrediting foreshadowing as a technique by being so heavy-handed

I dunno, when the "foreshadowing" is so lucdicrously overdone I start to think someone's setting me up for a big plot twist.
posted by contraption at 8:29 PM on March 4, 2017 [10 favorites]

Maggie Haberman on the latest palace intrigue:

Trump is expecting two major policy rollouts this week - one on Obamacare and one on the new travel E.O. The Obamacare piece was not 1/
2/ even completed as of yesterday. While there was a West Wing-wide panic about potential stories re POTUS tearing into staff/question of...
3/ whether he told chief-of-staff not to travel w him, two major pieces of policy still required focus and work.
4/ when Priebus said he would remain behind yesterday at meeting where Trump fumed at McGahn, was after discussion of ACA still needing work
5/ there was an hours-long meeting about ACA w White House aides yesterday morning.
6/ meanwhile, Trump has repeatedly told people throughout today that he is convinced he's right re wiretaps, per 3 ppl w direct knowledge

But who cares about whether we have healthcare this time next month. It's SNL time and Jeff Sessions is Forrest Gump.
posted by zachlipton at 8:30 PM on March 4, 2017 [10 favorites]

SNL's cold open has Kate McKinnon as Sessions-as-Forrest-Gump and it is magnificent.
posted by TwoStride at 8:32 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Thanks for the SNL reminder!
posted by futz at 8:33 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

Yes, thanks to Google, Facebook and all the other Big Data Collectors, you may get customized headlines on the front page of Your Favorite News Site (as well as those you don't like). Some of them may be based on what you have already looked at, but I'd like to think that some sites think "uh oh, they're overdosing on Trump news, less give them something less stressful or they'll have an aneurysm and we'll lose a reader".
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:33 PM on March 4, 2017

This Stunningly Racist French Novel Is How Steve Bannon Explains The World

Bannon's script about a Muslim take-over of USA, by the way, sounds like The Camp of Saints updated & Americanized
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:37 PM on March 4, 2017 [7 favorites]

At the end of the day, and I'm sure Trump/Bannon loves this, is that every newspaper is all Ginger-like "yadda yadda Trump says Obama wiretapped him yadda."
posted by rhizome at 8:46 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

SNL Clip - Jeff Sessions/Forrest Gump, should be watchable worldwide here

(I'll post the movie trailer segment when it's up)
posted by zachlipton at 8:48 PM on March 4, 2017 [10 favorites]

Lets find some common ground with Republicans who want to lock up Barack Obama now, if we just agree to lock up Hilary, that's how bipartisanship works, right? WHY WONT PROGRESSIVES WORK WITH US?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:52 PM on March 4, 2017 [12 favorites]

McKinnon did Couch Kellyanne as a cutaway to an ad. Job done.
posted by holgate at 8:52 PM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

SNL Clip - TBD Movie Trailer
posted by zachlipton at 8:56 PM on March 4, 2017 [14 favorites]

I never saw The Help, but I'm guessing that was a poop pie, correct? (From what I vaguely recall my mother saying about the movie.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:58 PM on March 4, 2017

This Stunningly Racist French Novel

This description is a massive understatement. Assuming the quotes in the Huffpost article are not out-of-context parodies, the book is an explicit paean to racial supremacism and genocide. It actually explicitly celebrates genocide.
posted by Coventry at 8:59 PM on March 4, 2017 [11 favorites]

Couch Conway, Part Deux. *

* They keep cutting to McKinnon kneeling in different parts of the studio on commercial cutaways.
posted by chris24 at 9:04 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

Everything about this story is crazy and suspicious

Sessions' fib + Red spies = crazy suspicious
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:08 PM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

Doing Kellyanne Couchkneeler as a bumper gag seems more fitting than making a bit out of it.
posted by holgate at 9:09 PM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

Maybe "Conwaying" will be the next hot meme...
posted by uosuaq at 9:10 PM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

Michael Che begins his Weekend Update comments on DJT's twitter by saying "early this morning, while his nurse was at Temple..."
posted by TwoStride at 9:14 PM on March 4, 2017 [13 favorites]

It actually explicitly celebrates genocide.

On the other hand, it appears to be such bad literature (the English translation, at least) that I doubt Bannon has really read it.
posted by Coventry at 9:14 PM on March 4, 2017

The blame Obama thing reminds me of the horror movie trope where you think the monster is dead, but it keeps coming back to life.

I think we need a Zombie Obama meme where he keeps returning, but he's really saving the world but wrecking Trump's plans.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:19 PM on March 4, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's really starting to look like Old Man Trump vs. the ( Intelligence Community ) Scooby Gang. And every time he tries some scheme, these meddling kids foil his plans.

CURSES!
posted by mikelieman at 9:26 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

Old Man Trump

I just realized, if that got traction, he'd break his fingers tweeting in impotent frustration.

G-d, hear my prayers....
posted by mikelieman at 9:28 PM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

Thrice.
posted by holgate at 9:30 PM on March 4, 2017 [9 favorites]

@cdibona

It's worse than you think. ICE is checking up on H1Bs and are trying to find any flaw in paperwork. Be careful out there, folks.

they just started showing up at silicon valley businesses 'just checking' on status, job function and title. Asking multiple co-workers the same sets of verification questions, etc. And not just brown people or Muslims, either.

posted by Coventry at 9:38 PM on March 4, 2017 [51 favorites]

This is sounding like straight up intimidation and economic sabotage. These fuckers are going all in on making America fail.
posted by Artw at 9:58 PM on March 4, 2017 [10 favorites]

@DavidCornDC:
1. Just asked @PressSec when Trump will produce evidence to back up his charge about Obama. Tomorrow? He said, "Let's just enjoy tonight."

2. But Trump said Obama broke the law. So Monday? @PressSec shrugged. Tuesday? I asked. He walked away.
posted by chris24 at 10:05 PM on March 4, 2017 [56 favorites]

Well, Roger Stone had an extended shitfit on Twitter and said explicitly that he had a "perfectly legal" backchannel to Assange. So there's that.
posted by holgate at 10:13 PM on March 4, 2017 [16 favorites]

That could well be. As Trump himself once said - "The security aspect of cyber is very, very tough".
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 10:19 PM on March 4, 2017 [16 favorites]

Conservative columnist and deputy editor of the editorial board at the WSJ.

@StephensWSJ:
When will Republicans acknowledge that the President of the United States is mentally ill? https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-accuses-obama-of-wire-tapping-in-october-1488637355 via @WSJ
posted by chris24 at 10:21 PM on March 4, 2017 [38 favorites]

I don't see what's so hard about the security aspect of cyber. Just hop on Signal with your sweetie, and set the messages to disappear in under one minute...
posted by Coventry at 10:21 PM on March 4, 2017

Wall Street Journal's Bret Stevens: When will Republicans acknowledge that the President of the United States is mentally ill?

WSJ: Trump Faces Furor Over Unsubstantiated Claim Obama Wiretapped Him.
posted by scalefree at 10:22 PM on March 4, 2017 [21 favorites]

That could well be. As Trump himself once said - "The security aspect of cyber is very, very tough".

But I thought that Barron could cyber anyone?
posted by futz at 10:25 PM on March 4, 2017

WSJ: Trump Faces Furor. In Trump's Mirror! LOL!!
--(The WSJ I've begun subscribing to in my mind.)
posted by thebrokedown at 10:36 PM on March 4, 2017 [6 favorites]

What are the odds that Trump's personal phone has foreign malware that enables the camera and microphone in background?
posted by JackFlash at 10:37 PM on March 4, 2017 [9 favorites]

19. 5 million percent. Or is it 19.5 billion? I forget.
posted by futz at 10:40 PM on March 4, 2017 [4 favorites]

An old Android phone no longer receiving security updates vs pretty much every intelligence agency in the world? Trump's appearance at WrestleMania was more of a fair fight.
posted by zachlipton at 10:42 PM on March 4, 2017 [23 favorites]

Extremely low, JackFlash. That phone must be monitored so closely that someone's pager goes off when its twitter app crashes. They probably do the equivalent of a factory reset every night while he's asleep.
posted by Coventry at 10:44 PM on March 4, 2017

the couch thing is so fucking stupid it makes me slip into a fugue state and commit atrocities

not putting her dirty street shoes on the furniture might be the only decent human thing she's done in the entirety of her role as a vile propagandist and filthy fucking collaborator for a disgusting hateful fascist regime
posted by poffin boffin at 10:51 PM on March 4, 2017 [11 favorites]

>not putting her dirty street shoes on the furniture might be the only decent human thing she's done

She did not take her heels off she was wearing them on the couch.
posted by futz at 10:55 PM on March 4, 2017 [10 favorites]

You can see her heels peeking out in the infamous picture.
posted by futz at 10:58 PM on March 4, 2017

Now I'm really worried about what atrocities poffin might commit.
posted by zachlipton at 10:58 PM on March 4, 2017 [14 favorites]

>Now I'm really worried about what atrocities poffin might commit.

Release the poffin boffin!
posted by futz at 11:00 PM on March 4, 2017 [16 favorites]

All of 45's tweets are just trying to distract us from the atrocities that poffin commits.
posted by overglow at 11:01 PM on March 4, 2017 [3 favorites]

Now I'm really worried about what atrocities poffin might commit.

All quack and no peck.
posted by Coventry at 11:03 PM on March 4, 2017 [1 favorite]

i will wear your flesh like a cape
posted by poffin boffin at 11:13 PM on March 4, 2017 [54 favorites]

Couch Conway, Part Deux.

The best explanation I have heard is that she was trying to get a closeup of Trump with Frederick Douglass.
posted by JackFlash at 11:15 PM on March 4, 2017 [18 favorites]

The best explanation I have heard is that she was trying to get a closeup of Trump with Frederick Douglass.

To anyone who hasn't been following the couch incident (not suggesting that you haven't been JackFlash) just enter 'couch" into the search bar here and choose "comments" because there has been a TON of discussion as to why the Kellyanne couch situation is highly problematic even if she was just taking a photo.
posted by futz at 11:26 PM on March 4, 2017

That @StephensWSJ twitter account has been suspended.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 11:38 PM on March 4, 2017

>Wall Street Journal's Bret Stevens: When will Republicans acknowledge that the President of the United States is mentally ill?

It looks like he just deleted his tweet, his account is not suspended.
posted by Catblack at 11:42 PM on March 4, 2017 [5 favorites]

Not suspended, but the tweet was deleted. He says: "Just deleted tweet on Trump's mental health. I'm a columnist not a diagnostician. That something is deeply amiss, I have no doubt." after people were upset that he was using Trump to stigmatize mental illness.

Now, if you want to see somebody, er, really having an interesting night on Twitter, see some of the things Roger Stone has been up to tonight.
posted by zachlipton at 11:42 PM on March 4, 2017 [12 favorites]

I could never be President because I'd have a No Shoes policy in the White House

Could probably provide like, paper slippers I guess
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:05 AM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

The first response of many of my high school freshmen when they're caught red handed for something egregious is to deny it. Then shift blame. Then explain how something else somebody else in class did iwas just as bad, perhaps even worse. Then to privately blame some kids they don't like and occasional exact revenge on that innocent kid. And in some special cars, bring in their parents to argue that what the student did was either something we should forgive (for all of the pervious reasons and usually also because kids will be kids) or was in fact the school's fault for catching them.

I see you, Don.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:51 AM on March 5, 2017 [67 favorites]

Hair Furor.
posted by darkstar at 12:52 AM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

An old Android phone no longer receiving security updates vs pretty much every intelligence agency in the world?

It must be corewars in that thing; with each last person to hack it frantically patching it against their known zeroday exploits to keep the n+1 hacker out of it.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:36 AM on March 5, 2017 [18 favorites]

Just a small thing, but

On the "too fast" thing I think humans have a proclivity to live in insular patriarchal tribes warring with and enslaving one another on and off. It's kind of programmed in.

Nope. There is no evidence that humans are naturally insular or patriarchal or aggressive. Among contemporary hunter-gatherer communities, only some are, and humans were living as hunter-gatherers for many, many thousands of years before agricultural settlements appeared rather recently. So from a genetic development point of view, we have more peaceful and helpful coexistence in us than warring tribalism.
posted by mumimor at 1:39 AM on March 5, 2017 [18 favorites]

So from a genetic development point of view, we have more peaceful and helpful coexistence in us than warring tribalism.

Unclear, but it looks a bit like one of those self-fulfilling prophesy things, where if enough people believe it, it actually becomes true. For a while at least. Not so much just now.
posted by dirge at 1:52 AM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

He orders extra ketchup.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 2:05 AM on March 5, 2017 [14 favorites]

I'm kind of worried that there was actually a wiretap of Trump Tower, and that it was because there was a clear and present threat to national security, as this Wired article posits: If the Feds Did Wiretap Trump Tower, It’s Not Obama Who Should Worry

“You can’t tap the phones of a political candidate for political purposes,” says Doss.

What you could tap them for? Acting as a foreign power, or as an agent of a foreign power. In other words, spying against US interests with both knowledge and intent.

posted by en forme de poire at 2:05 AM on March 5, 2017 [20 favorites]

sole authority over nukes

In practical terms, this is not true. Nobody's going to carry out an order to nuke Greece because Trump broke a tooth on an olive pit. In all likelihood, nobody's going to carry out an order to nuke Iran for reasons less than you'd find at least dubiously plausible. There are humans in the loop, and they don't get that job by acting like thoughtless automatons.
posted by dirge at 2:08 AM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

'Gun for hire': how Jeff Sessions used his prosecuting power to target Democrats
posted by XMLicious at 2:36 AM on March 5, 2017 [45 favorites]

Here is the LA Times Story on the San Diego woman: Deportation of grandmother leaves a San Diego military family reeling: Clarissa Arredondo, 43, is the mother of Adriana Aparicio, whose husband is a Navy veteran working as a contractor in Afghanistan. The couple has two daughters, 2 and 3, and Arredondo, who came to the U.S. more than 25 years ago, helped take care of them.

“They consider my mom as a criminal for lying on paperwork to get welfare,” Aparicio said, adding that officials said that happened more than a decade ago.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:44 AM on March 5, 2017 [11 favorites]

I still believe the problem is more Trump and Bannon than all the Republican lawmakers. He was elected by millions of racist and sexist Americans who are never going to publicly admit it, but they didn't like having a black president, and they definitely didn't want the black guy followed by a woman. That's all there was to it; racism and sexism. His supporters liked that he ranted and raved. They didn't care that he had not one single genuine plan. They didn't care that he behaved like a hangry toddler and made disgusting rapey remarks. His ass got elected and the GOP feels like they're fucked. Remember, they didn't want him either.

My feeling is the GOP career politicians are bending to what they perceive was the will of the people or at the very least, the situation at hand. They saw a Trump victory and equated that with Trump support or support for "change." They want to get re-elected, so they're going to either publicly back him or try to remain publicly neutral.

I believe they see exactly what he is and they're afraid to say the emperor has no clothes for fear of losing votes. Also, they see him as a big scary bully who has a terrifying amount of power and who could absolutely ruin their lives if he chooses. But as 45 says increasingly unstable things or veers closer to libel or treason, my guess is they're ALL trying to figure out how the hell to distance themselves from him.

I do think he clearly has some genuine GOP supporters but I think right now more and more GOP lawmakers are trying to figure out how the hell to move away from this lunatic and still get re-elected.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 3:24 AM on March 5, 2017 [16 favorites]

'Gun for hire': how Jeff Sessions used his prosecuting power to target Democrats
Wow. I tend to skip articles like this, thinking that I already know that Sessions is awful and targeting Democrats sounds like business as usual, but it was so much worse than expected. A democrat, Mims, was running for mayor and Sessions had said no worries "Mims won’t be around by that time". And then he made up charges and Mims was sentenced to prison for 10 years! And that was just the first example in the story.

I don't know, I guess what I thought awful but expected was something like threatening with lawsuits, making peoples feel miserable so that they don't want to run for office anymore, things like that. But making sure opponents go to prison for 10 years... I really thought that I wouldn't be surprised anymore by any of this, but it keeps getting worse apparently.
posted by blub at 3:26 AM on March 5, 2017 [59 favorites]

Education-related sidenote: the DoE publishes weekly newsletters for teachers. In this week's newsletter with one exception, every single profiled teacher, student and school is from a charter/private school. There's also an article written by the rightwing think tank, the American Enterprise Institute, about how "caged-in" teachers can break free from administrators.

The one public school article is about absenteeism in Philadelphia.

It's a shockingly loaded propaganda piece. Proponents of vouchers and charter schools will love it.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 4:02 AM on March 5, 2017 [50 favorites]

One deleted. Hey, sorry, interesting thoughts, but Darwinian/evolutionary social theories re population densities, patriarchy, reproduction, social orders, etc., is actually going to be a yuuuuuuge derail in a politics thread already nearing 1000 comments, maybe better for a fully fleshed post. (Just let us know if you need a copy of your text)
posted by taz (staff) at 4:18 AM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

I love this Maggie Haberman tweet (and all the responses) because I've had the same experience watching reruns and having my heart sink when I hear a 90s-era Trump joke: Cannot get away. Watching the pilot of "Sex and the City" and Mr. Big is introduced to the show as "The next Donald Trump."

It's like we elected our most widespread cultural reference President.
posted by sallybrown at 4:52 AM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

CNN: Trump Angry and Frustrated at Staff Over Sessions Fallout:

"Nobody has seen him that upset," one source said, adding the feeling was the communications team allowed the Sessions news, which the administration deemed a nonstory, to overtake the narrative. . . . "The staff fumbled," Trump told the team for not being prepared when the Sessions story came out, according to another source. . . . When the President returned to the White House Thursday evening from a day trip to Virginia, there were "a lot of expletives." The source said for more than a week Trump had been lamenting that his senior staff "just keep getting in their own way." . . . The President is showing increasing flashes of anger over the performance of his senior staff and daily developments about Russia overshadowing his message, multiple people inside the White House and outside the administration told CNN. . . .

One source familiar with the Friday meeting said Trump was angry at senior staff, including chief of staff Reince Priebus, about the state of affairs at the White House this week. Word had spread through the White House that Priebus had been chewed out but those in the room dispute that. Priebus declined to comment on the record [ahem] about the meeting. . . . An informed presidential ally outside government but close to the President said Trump was really angry about having a "mini disaster" a week. The President's mood is adding to tremendous pressure inside the West Wing and aides have been seen in tears in recent days at multiple meetings.

Maggie Haberman adds more color: During the campaign, Trump would routinely kick aides off the plane as a time-out. "They hate me because they hate you," was a refrain.

No, buddy, we hate you because we hate you.

Sounds like Priebus may not be long for this Administration.
posted by sallybrown at 5:12 AM on March 5, 2017 [48 favorites]

This morning's Trump tweets [real]:

Is it true the DNC would not allow the FBI access to check server or other equipment after learning it was hacked? Can that be possible?

Who was it that secretly said to Russian President, "Tell Vladimir that after the election I'll have more flexibility?" @foxandfriends
posted by melissasaurus at 5:19 AM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

NO PUPPET NO PUPPET YOU'RE THE PUPPET
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:42 AM on March 5, 2017 [29 favorites]

Is it true the DNC would not allow the FBI access to check server or other equipment after learning it was hacked? Can that be possible?

You'd think that maybe the President of the United States could pick up a phone, push the FBI speed dial button, and ask them?
posted by mikelieman at 5:44 AM on March 5, 2017 [10 favorites]

You'd think that four months would be long enough for it to sink in that he won, is now the president, and can stop obsessing over the election.

And yet, here we are.
posted by Superplin at 5:53 AM on March 5, 2017 [10 favorites]

Update on my letter to the editor re: Jeff Sessions: it didn't run Friday or Saturday, so I figured Sunday was my last shot, and there it is! With a little picture of Sessions next to it, in case anyone forgot who he was. They only made one editorial change- I called out "so many members of the Trump administration" and they changed it to "some members of the Trump administration". Fair enough.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:01 AM on March 5, 2017 [110 favorites]

...showing increasing flashes of anger over the performance of his senior staff and daily developments about Russia...and aides have been seen in tears in recent days at multiple meetings.

Okay, now its just getting ridiculous. I appreciated the bunker scene in Downfall as much as anybody, but history, in its repetition, seems recently to have cast off all sense of subtlety.
posted by darkstar at 6:08 AM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

maybe if your boss is a raging lunatic, you should quit
posted by kokaku at 6:11 AM on March 5, 2017 [14 favorites]

The White House statement re the tweets yesterday:

Reports concerning potentially politically motivated investigations immediately ahead of the 2016 election are very troubling. President Donald J. Trump is requesting that as part of the investigation into Russian activity, the congressional intelligence committees exercise their oversight authority to determine whether executive branch investigative powers were abused in 2016. Neither the White House nor the President will comment further until such oversight is conducted.

Trump will hate this:
- "potentially politically motivated investigations" is anodyne
- "requesting" rather than "demanding"
- "to determine whether executive branch investigative powers were abused in 2016" is unclear and broad and could even cover the Comey Clinton letter
- it pledges he'll stop talking about this, so either he's muzzled or he talks about it and gives the public another example of him lying or being undisciplined

I can't imagine Trump personally signed off on this statement. It seems almost designed to infuriate him.
posted by sallybrown at 6:17 AM on March 5, 2017 [24 favorites]

Maggie Haberman adds more color: During the campaign, Trump would routinely kick aides off the plane as a time-out. "They hate me because they hate you," was a refrain

He sounds like an abusive boyfriend in a bad movie.
posted by octothorpe at 6:19 AM on March 5, 2017 [22 favorites]

Seriously, read that Gun For Hire story about Sessions. It will give you chills - it reads like something you'd expect in, like, 1920 in some corrupt small town, but worse.

Sometimes in these posts we use a little bit of hyperbole about these terrible, terrible people. But that story is genuinely about a man who appears to trump up charges for political convenience. For the first time it really made me think "we could end up with show trials in this country".
posted by Frowner at 6:19 AM on March 5, 2017 [50 favorites]

I see it very differently, sallybrown.

- baseless conspiracy theories from Breitbart now qualify as "reports";
- a congressional investigation of Russia (and this fake wiretapping story) by a Republican legislature that has shown no interest in delving into the real abuses of power in this administration means giving a veneer of legitimacy to what will almost certainly be a case that languishes in Nowheresville;
- refusing to comment on either is an attempt to kill both stories and silence the press.
posted by Superplin at 6:24 AM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

Sometimes in these posts we use a little bit of hyperbole about these terrible, terrible people. But that story is genuinely about a man who appears to trump up charges for political convenience. For the first time it really made me think "we could end up with show trials in this country".

Yeah it's kind of terrifying. Hopefully Trump doesn't come up with the plan of having Sessions pull Clinton in to turn her into a Tymoshenko to distract the rubes.

It'll be interesting to see who prevails in USSS vs US Marshals.
posted by Talez at 6:25 AM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

You are not kidding about that Sessions article. How did this not come up during the confirmation hearings?

This man is not fit for any office. The country itself isn't safe with Sessions as AG.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:25 AM on March 5, 2017 [21 favorites]

Sarah Huckabee Sanders is on This Week on ABC right now continuing to talk about the potential wiretapping. So the WH statement that they wouldn't be discussing this further lasted...a handful of minutes?
posted by sallybrown at 6:25 AM on March 5, 2017 [14 favorites]

This is fine - Firedog
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:27 AM on March 5, 2017 [12 favorites]

From Just Security: Tapping Trump?, a concise explainer.
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:28 AM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

Is it true the DNC would not allow the FBI access to check server or other equipment after learning it was hacked? Can that be possible?

Who was it that secretly said to Russian President, "Tell Vladimir that after the election I'll have more flexibility?" @foxandfriends

Does anyone know what the heck he's talking about on either of these?

Also, it's hard to get a solid read in so few characters, but am I alone in feeling that neither of there feel like "real" Trump tweets -- that someone else has the phone this morning and is obfuscating madly?
posted by jammer at 6:29 AM on March 5, 2017 [9 favorites]

I see it very differently, sallybrown.

I think it depends in part on whether you see them as acting out of a coherent and planned strategy or running around with their hair on fire. To me they seem the latter.
posted by sallybrown at 6:30 AM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

I can't imagine Trump personally signed off on this statement. It seems almost designed to infuriate him.

Never fear: his fucking awful surrogates on the Sunday shows (or at least Sanders on ABC at present) are doubling down on Trump's crazypants tweets and viciously defaming President Obama at great length as we speak. It's just revolting.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:31 AM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

So I had dinner with my parents last night and I usually scrupulously avoid politics as I said above because I don't want to talk about how Donald Trump is all the fault of liberals. But he came up anyway because, well. My parents are not dumb and are reasonably well informed (though not obsessed and on the internet 24/7 like me) and they were positing 11-dimensional chess theories and I was like omg you guys he has dementia! He's a horrible abusive man currently experiencing a terrible degenerative disease. They were like, wow, really, do you think? Huh, that's really interesting. Why do you say that?

I feel like I am living on some other plane of reality from everyone else sometimes.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:31 AM on March 5, 2017 [48 favorites]

Trump urges Obama abuse of powers probe (real). This is a much more interesting weekend than the last one.
posted by Namlit at 6:31 AM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

this is all gonna end up as a hostage situation at mar a lago with the fledling administration demanding a helicopter ride to the russian ship sitting offshore, innit?
posted by localhuman at 6:32 AM on March 5, 2017 [24 favorites]

Does anyone know what the heck he's talking about on either of these?

I googled the quote and came up with this yt clip - but no context. Pretty innocuous stuff in my opinion.
posted by klarck at 6:33 AM on March 5, 2017

Seriously, read that Gun For Hire story about Sessions. It will give you chills - it reads like something you'd expect in, like, 1920 in some corrupt small town, but worse.

I'm more worried that my reaction to reading it was so mild, because, yeah, it's fucked up, but my opinion of US Attorneys and the FBI could not be much lower. I guess it's outrageous that politically-connected white people were among those railroaded? But the stuff about bringing someone up on flimsy charges or having a predetermined "hit list" of people and trying to flip someone into being an informant who will attempt to incriminate them is something that I've read so many times before.
posted by indubitable at 6:35 AM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

this is all gonna end up as a hostage situation at mar a lago with the hostage takers demanding a helicopter ride to the russian ship sitting offshore, innit?

Either that, or it will end with show trials of the entire Democratic Party leadership and a network of gulags in Alaska. Could go either way, really.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:35 AM on March 5, 2017 [8 favorites]

this is all gonna end up as a hostage situation at mar a lago with the fledling administration demanding a helicopter ride to the russian ship sitting offshore, innit?

Say hello...to my little hands!
posted by howfar at 6:39 AM on March 5, 2017 [12 favorites]

The Congressional Republicans are going to get right on board with this appalling shit and go after Obama too, aren't they? My god, when I think about how Obama so graciously welcomed Trump after the election and went out of his way to be helpful to the guy who had openly tried to fuck him over for years.

How long will it take before Trump adds in the sekrit Muslim birther stuff and won't let the Obamas back in the country after a trip?
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:40 AM on March 5, 2017 [21 favorites]

I think it depends in part on whether you see them as acting out of a coherent and planned strategy or running around with their hair on fire. To me they seem the latter.

Legitimizing Bannon's old fiefdom while trying to stifle other media and turning over the investigation to a compliant Congress doesn't require any grand strategy. I still see it as flailing, but also dangerously at risk of success.
posted by Superplin at 6:42 AM on March 5, 2017

The Congressional Republicans are going to get right on board with this appalling shit and go after Obama too, aren't they?

Yes, please Donald, do take on Obama, who by any objective measure was the most competent chief executive in the last 40 years, who just finished 8 scandal-free years in the white house and is enjoying the highest popularity of any ex-president, who had the goods on you back in July but withheld to avoid the slightest taint of partisanship, who had a mere spokesman refute your recent wild accusation, who knows where all the WH light switches are, who can de-normalize you by simply appearing on camera with you. He will destroy you.
posted by klarck at 6:43 AM on March 5, 2017 [100 favorites]

The Congressional Republicans are going to get right on board with this appalling shit and go after Obama too, aren't they?

I mean, what possible precedent would make anyone think that they won't? Do you think they're too honorable and decent to do that? Too patriotic? What would stop them?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:43 AM on March 5, 2017 [14 favorites]

Maybe we will just turn maralago into a Guantanamo for wayward republican naughties.
posted by ian1977 at 6:45 AM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

They are politicians. Obama right now is widely beloved by the nation, with soaring approval ratings. Their popularity is much lower. They would be incredibly stupid to try and take him on, and for that reason I'm betting they won't.
posted by sallybrown at 6:45 AM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

Paranoid and wondering: If Trump's tweets were intended to distract us from something else, what might the something else be?
posted by bunderful at 6:46 AM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump's tweets aren't "intended" to do anything. He's a raging toddler with zero impulse control and found a rare moment when his babysitters were busy to grab his phone and incoherently vent his frustrations at the world.
posted by the turtle's teeth at 6:49 AM on March 5, 2017 [55 favorites]

They would be incredibly stupid to try and take him on, and for that reason I'm betting they won't.

Their gerrymandered districts ensure that the crazier and more anti-Obama they get, the better they will do in their primaries. I expect them all to fall right into step with this.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:49 AM on March 5, 2017 [9 favorites]

I read the explainer that MonkeyToes liked to above. This quote is direct frim Breitbart:

In summary: the Obama administration sought, and eventually obtained, authorization to eavesdrop on the Trump campaign; continued monitoring the Trump team even when no evidence of wrongdoing was found; then relaxed the NSA rules to allow evidence to be shared widely within the government, virtually ensuring that the information, including the conversations of private citizens, would be leaked to the media.

That's the angle they're going to take when this comes out. They know there's fire behind the smoke, they're figuring out that it's going to come out eventually, and they're pre-emptively poisoning the well to (try to) undermine it.

Oh man, on preview:

FelliniBlank: The Congressional Republicans are going to get right on board with this appalling shit and go after Obama too, aren't they?

Sudden gut-clenching dread. That's how this is going to play out, isn't it? Now that that smoke bomb has been dropped, the collaborators in Congress -- who were able to turn fucking emails into a giant controversy -- are going to go all in on Obama abusing his power to spy on Trump. We're going to have full on Congressional investigations over the world's biggest nothing-burger while...

Ugh. Someone tell me this isn't likely?
posted by jammer at 6:50 AM on March 5, 2017 [10 favorites]

Here's me desperately hoping for the next IC leak that always seems to come out to shake things up when the Trumpists find something new to coalesce on...
posted by jammer at 6:52 AM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Paranoid and wondering: If Trump's tweets were intended to distract us from something else, what might the something else be?

1) Old Man Trump.

2) Failed Presidency.

3) Incontinence.

4) Russia.

5) Being underwater financially. ( All his cash flow goes to service outstanding debt, I suspect )

6) Being in debt to Russians.

7) Pee tape

8) Legitimate questions about whether he raped a 13 year old girl in 1994

....

I could go on, but I'm nauseous
posted by mikelieman at 6:52 AM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

Someone tell me this isn't likely?

It's not.

What's likely is the more smoke there is coming from all these different accusations, the easier it will be for Congress to be like "ok sure we'll look into everything" and tread water on the Russia connection while pushing the actual policy stuff they care about through.
posted by sallybrown at 6:53 AM on March 5, 2017 [10 favorites]

They are politicians. Obama right now is widely beloved by the nation, with soaring approval ratings. Their popularity is much lower. They would be incredibly stupid to try and take him on, and for that reason I'm betting they won't.

If doing something would be incredibly stupid, I'd lay my money on Trump doing it.
posted by indubitable at 6:54 AM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

and with congress investigating obama's supposed wiretapping of trump, how does that happen without a crapload of scandal about republicans getting revealed?

it's almost like someone's trying to destroy the faith of the people in BOTH parties - who benefits?
posted by pyramid termite at 6:54 AM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

If doing something would be incredibly stupid, I'd lay my money on Trump doing it.

We're discussing a potential Congressional investigation, which Trump would not control.
posted by sallybrown at 6:55 AM on March 5, 2017

IIRC, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions didn't rescue himself from any investigations into the actions of the Executive Branc in 2016.
posted by mikelieman at 6:59 AM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

We're discussion a potential Congressional investigation, which Trump would not control.

Right. The same Congress that is refusing to do anything meaningful regarding a mountain of evidence of possible collusion between Russia and the administration, led by the same leaders who have had every chance to find some reason to slide slowly away from Trump and defend their image in history. But haven't, because they're totally happy to use him as cover for their hateful policies, massive corruption and all.

I have zero faith that the whole rotten apparatus won't see this as a potential get out of jail free card -- not even all that figuratively -- and dive into it whole heartedly.
posted by jammer at 7:01 AM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

The Trump admin doesn't have to prove anything about Obama's involvement. It doesn't even have to provide evidence. It simply has to fan the flames and spread FUD and his 40% (I think it's safe to raise the American Crazification Factor up from the fabled 27% by now) will apply pressure on his behalf. Twitter is already abuzz with thousands of PROVEN OBAMA CRIMES LOCK HIM UP howls, although that's true of any day ending in y.

Likewise, Congress has to tread slightly lightly on this because a formal investigation opens them up to looking quite stupid if there really is no evidence. But that doesn't mean that the Ted Cruzes and the Louie Gohmerts and the John Cornyns and the Steve Kings of the world, who are quite accustomed to looking quite stupid in public and wearing it as a virtue, won't run their mouths about Questionable Obama Activity and Criminal Conspiracies and Democrat Ties To Putin whenever possible to make sure that 40% keep believing that Trump can do no wrong and Obama is the antichrist.

Remember the Republican mantra: Attack, attack, attack, then attack.
posted by delfin at 7:02 AM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

@jonfavs
Barack Obama's master plan:
1) Wiretap the opposition
2) Gather damaging info
3) Say nothing
4) Let him win
5) Ride off into the sunset

And gotta love it it when everybody is jumping on Roger. (and this was before his really unhinged tweets.)

@RogerJStoneJr
The buck stops here. Obama responsible for illegal surveillance of @realDonaldTrump - must be charged, convicted and jailed.

@Mariobatali Retweeted Roger Stone
Are you high Roger ?? I mean really really high ?
posted by chris24 at 7:02 AM on March 5, 2017 [44 favorites]

Former DNI James Clapper says no FISA court order authorizing a wiretap at Trump Tower to his knowledge (and that if it existed he would know about it). [tweet with video]

So, if there are transcripts of calls/meetings in Trump Tower, I'm assuming they were either (a) taps of the other end of the calls or (b) done by non-US intelligence agencies? Or maybe they have an inside man/woman?
posted by melissasaurus at 7:03 AM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

And the person chosen as independent prosecutor will be the same person chosen to chair the Eventual 9/11 Commission. Henry Kissyourassgoodbyeinger.

Problem: solved
posted by petebest at 7:03 AM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

We're going to have full on Congressional investigations over the world's biggest nothing-burger while...

Thing is, a congressional investigation is going to have to be bi-partisan. Rs can't just do it themselves. And Dems with subpoena power... well, they'd also need a spine - But this is why the Rs haven't even made motions towards a pro forma investigation. They won't be able to control what dems do, and they very, very desperately need to hide whats goin on.

Plus, there's that whole "never ask a question you don't know the answer to" thing.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:05 AM on March 5, 2017 [8 favorites]

Wow, those Roger Stone tweets. Was he hacked? Was he on exceptional drugs?
posted by instead of three wishes at 7:05 AM on March 5, 2017

@Mariobatali Retweeted Roger Stone
Are you high Roger ?? I mean really really high ?

Chefs-getting-political Twitter is the best Twitter. Tom Colicchio is great too.
posted by sallybrown at 7:06 AM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

Who stoned roger rabid?
posted by Namlit at 7:07 AM on March 5, 2017 [16 favorites]

Why do you think it would be stupid for Republicans to "investigate" Obama? It would utterly distract from the Russian allegations and the fact that Trump is batshit and out of control. Many Americans cling to the idea that Congressional Republicans are reasonable people, because the alternative is to realize that voters have made profoundly bad decisions. People don't want to see themselves as dupes or traitors. And if Congressional Republicans think that Obama committed all sorts of crimes, then many voters will think there's probably something to that. The media will spend all their time talking about the supposed crimes of Obama and why they aren't true, to the detriment of all other kinds of coverage. And meanwhile, Republicans will ram through their agenda and blame everything on the crooked Obama administration when people suffer because of it.

I'm honestly completely amazed at how totally innocent most Americans are. You think the really bad shit can't happen here? It can. It has in the past. There's a very good chance it is happening right now.

Wow, those Roger Stone tweets. Was he hacked? Was he on exceptional drugs?

I think that's pretty much just who he is.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:10 AM on March 5, 2017 [12 favorites]

Wow, those Roger Stone tweets. Was he hacked? Was he on exceptional drugs?

I mean this is actually par for the course Roger Stone. The guy is on a whole 'nother level. From a young, enterprising, ratfucker for Nixon, to a Trump confidant and guest host on Infowars. An only-in-America success story.
posted by dis_integration at 7:10 AM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

Ohhhhhh . . . *This* bullshit is why BushCo Fixer James A Baker was summoned to the White House. Save us Jimmy, or we'll have to do something drastic, man . . . we'll declassify the seekrit Dubz crimes! We can't do no time!

(Author's note: the WH end of the conversation must be read in the voice of "Angel" from The Rockford Files.)
posted by petebest at 7:10 AM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

Why do you think it would be stupid for Republicans to "investigate" Obama?

Because they don't want to be dealing with this shit right now. That was fine when there was a Democratic president in office and their game plan was total blockage. But they now own the White House *and* Congress, they want to push policy through! All of this junk is getting in the way of them doing the actual work they very much want to do.
posted by sallybrown at 7:12 AM on March 5, 2017 [9 favorites]

What The Fuck Just Happened Today: The Normal Person's Guide to 45’s First 45 Fucking Days

The daily news blitzkrieg is by design and undermines a democracy with the intent of fatiguing normal people into submission. By answering the question “what the fuck just happened today?” this project attempts to provide a daily antidote to an impossible news cycle. But every once in a while you need to zoom out, gain some perspective, and observe the larger trends and stories.

So, in honor of America's 45th president, let’s step back and take a look at the five big storylines from 45’s first 45-days in office.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:14 AM on March 5, 2017 [9 favorites]

Cannot get away. Watching the pilot of "Sex and the City" and Mr. Big is introduced to the show as "The next Donald Trump."

The other day I thought I'd disconnect from news-world, web-world, put on an old banger and dance around while making dinner, so I thought "I haven't listened to Missy Elliott's old stuff in years" put on "Under Construction" and there's a positive reference to Donald Trump in the first minute.

We're all trapped in here with him. I swear maybe it is a glitch in the matrix, a bunch of memory got overwritten with Donald Trump references that weren't there before.
posted by dis_integration at 7:18 AM on March 5, 2017 [27 favorites]

What if the end result of the investigation of the alleged taps is the RNC did it? I'd be okay with that outcome too.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 7:25 AM on March 5, 2017

it's almost like someone's trying to destroy the faith of the people in BOTH parties - who benefits?

Let me introduce you to Vladimir Putin.
posted by zrail at 7:29 AM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

We're all trapped in here with him.

In our house, we don't even have to say his name to invoke him. "What did he do today?" "Oh, the usual: tweet, preen, and botch."
posted by notyou at 7:30 AM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

Let me introduce to Vonald J. Trutin
posted by Namlit at 7:31 AM on March 5, 2017 [9 favorites]

it reads like something you'd expect in, like, 1920 in some corrupt small town, but worse.

"The past is never dead. It's not even past."

On the "investigate the investigation" shit: it puts Devin Nunes in a hole, because his previous "la la la, nothing to investigate here" position is going to be increasingly untenable. I'm still flabbergasted by how the West Wing is still getting the bulk of its inputs from cranks and loons like Mark Levin.
posted by holgate at 7:31 AM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

People don't realize that wiretapping warrants aren't just something you pick up the phone and call a judge for on a lark for shits and giggles just to see what old Dampnut is up to. Wiretapping shit is some of the most complicated legal judo you'll ever see occur and even the wiretapping itself is fraught with pitfalls that could see the whole investigation trashed because of a procedural error. To say that Obama ordered a wiretap is absolutely fucking ludicrous.
posted by Talez at 7:31 AM on March 5, 2017 [15 favorites]

There's a small possibility that there actually was a wiretap, in which case the Feds found serious probable cause in order to get it. And that would be damning for Trump: it would mean that there was real evidence that he was doing something illegal. This is most likely just Trump ranting about something on Breitbart, but it's possible that this is a preemptive defense against some damaging leak that he knows is coming.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:36 AM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

To say that Obama ordered a wiretap is absolutely fucking ludicrous.

But to say that Trump would try to do so is utterly believable, and to him, that means Obama must have done it. Here we are in the Gilded Mirror Era.
posted by Etrigan at 7:38 AM on March 5, 2017 [15 favorites]

Among the many scary as hell things about this administration is seeing how hard they flail, freak out, and generally shit the bed with the lights on even in the absence of an objective crisis to deal with. There hasn't been a terrorist attack, a massive financial collapse, or a foreign policy crisis to deal with; this is entirely their own internal drama, which they can't seem to get a handle on. How the hell can anyone, even their deranged supporters, feel ok about this even from the standpoint of basic governing competence? The fact that no elected Republicans--not one!--can manage to come out gunning in opposition to this rank awfulness is why I find the idea of making common cause with the "NeverTrump" wing of the party so pathetically laughable. They're goddamn mythical creatures.
posted by informavore at 7:40 AM on March 5, 2017 [85 favorites]

I'm still flabbergasted by how the West Wing is still getting the bulk of its inputs from cranks and loons like Mark Levin.

Mark Levin is several rungs down the Cranks n' Loons Ladder from Trump's inputs. You need to be looking at Infowars-tier shit and ancaps/neoreactionaries. The rightwing youtube crankosphere is full of direct addresses and appeals to him, like 4th-wall breaking "Mister President, this is what you have to do" stuff, and he has been taking their advice.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:40 AM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

What if the end result of the investigation of the alleged taps is the RNC did it?

(I'm throwing down some long-odds money on a bet that the wiretaps are actually from Russia. Because why not go straight for the most outrageous possibility?)
posted by tobascodagama at 7:45 AM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

(I went ahead and turned my very derail-y deleted post on patriachy, racism, politics, and human reproductive behaviors and evolution into its own post if anyone is interested in that discussion. It was meant to be a more thoughtful take than my previous post in this thread on patriarchy and racism and "human nature.")
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:45 AM on March 5, 2017 [15 favorites]

To say that Obama ordered a wiretap is absolutely fucking ludicrous.

When it comes to FISA court stuff, you're sort of right, although they rarely meet a warrant request they don't like. He can't order the FISA court to do anything they don't agree to.

But the President could certainly order the intelligence services to perform illegal wiretapping, and they would almost certainly do it, provided he directed the request to the right people, and we know for a fact that the NSA performs illegal wiretapping and interception of communications all the time, potentially literally all the time of all Americans.
posted by dis_integration at 7:47 AM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

@MeetThePress
James Clapper: "There was no such wire tap activity amounted against" Donald Trump. [video]

@NBCNewsPR
EXCLUSIVE: CLAPPER - " there was no such wiretap activity mounted against the president, president-elect, candidate or campaign" #MTP

---

The 'no such wiretap activity against POTUS or campaign' doesn't rule out that they were doing their regular monitoring of the Russians and Trump & Co kept calling and meeting them. So still holding out hope for transcripts.
posted by chris24 at 7:48 AM on March 5, 2017 [39 favorites]

doesn't rule out that they were doing their regular monitoring of the Russians

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe Trump is too self-centered to see that possibility, but following the Russian hacking efforts, it would make perfect sense that the intelligence community was keeping a very close eye on any and all Russian government and/or organized crime folks. If Trump's team is too dumb to steer clear of those intel targets then tough shit, morons.
posted by p3t3 at 7:52 AM on March 5, 2017 [15 favorites]

Chuck Todd: If this wiretap/FISA warrant exists, wouldn't you have been briefed about that? Wouldn't you know about it somehow?

Sen. Schumer: "I do not comment on classified briefings." *stone faced silence*

Um...whoa.
posted by sallybrown at 7:52 AM on March 5, 2017 [51 favorites]

Why do you think it would be stupid for Republicans to "investigate" Obama?

1 - you can never guarantee what such an investigation is going to turn up - including transcripts of trump and russian diplomats ...

2 - the bitterness and rage felt by many democrats will be fatal to so called "bi-partisanship" - and perhaps the governability of much of the country

3 - god only knows how much dirt is hidden somewhere on whoever - the leaks will be catastrophic and perhaps full of fake scandal - many people will be out for blood after this and the end result will be a sleaze armageddon

and as far as putin is concerned, it would be blindly stupid of him to encourage this result - better an enemy you understand and can predict than an incapicatated great power that's lost its leverage over the rest of the world, including your potential enemies
posted by pyramid termite at 7:56 AM on March 5, 2017 [8 favorites]

If the Republicans investigate Obama--while refusing to investigate Trump--the country will break apart. I mean, that might be happening anyway, but...
posted by overglow at 8:00 AM on March 5, 2017 [12 favorites]

The 'no such wiretap activity against POTUS or campaign' doesn't rule out that they were doing their regular monitoring of the Russians and Trump & Co kept calling and meeting them. So still holding out hope for transcripts.

Given that Flynn was previously the head of an IC agency and apparently repeatedly called the Russian embassy, I have no expectation of greater levels of intelligence (pun not intended) from other random campaign people. So yeah, I'm with you on the outside chance of transcripts.
posted by jaduncan at 8:01 AM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

IRL LOL at the stupidity of this. Manafort lived in Trump tower; if he was suspected of being a Russian asset, well. That's not tapping the campaign, per se, especially since to get all the March 2016 stuff on tape they would have had to already been watching Manafort by the time he joined the campaign.

Like of course we're spying on Russian spies and assets. If they were stupid enough to conspire this openly with a foreign power to steal an election, nobody needed to be listening in on the campaign. The pre-existing monitoring of the foreign agents would do the job.

I just...have none of these assholes even seen a spy movie? Or read a damn book? Or just like...thought ahead?

The only thing that gives me pause is that I wouldn't expect professionals to be so sloppy. Otoh, I guess shit happens when you partner with people dumb enough to throw poo. It's not like the professionals could keep the idiots from talking to each other.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:03 AM on March 5, 2017 [20 favorites]

What's fatal about investigating Obama?

More than anything it sets precedent, no? Who's to say Trump won't be investigated himself when he makes it out alive? It's a hell of a political shift to start persecuting your predecessors with something more than [batshit] words. In the process he's invalidating the primary reason he got into politics: immunity from prosecution. I'm convinced Donnieboy's lawyers originally proposed his candidacy as a way of politicizing any convictions for tax fraud/laundering/racketeering/etc.
posted by constantinescharity at 8:05 AM on March 5, 2017 [10 favorites]

@resnikoff
This could very well end up turning into a world-historical self own. Trump Seeks Inquiry Into Unproved Allegations That Obama Tapped His Phones

Trump still hasn't figured out the difference between lying when you're the president and lying when you're a candidate/media phenomenon.

As candidate, you can demand whatever investigations you want as a mystification tactic. Things will remain inconclusive as long you need.

The danger of this tactic as president is *there may actually be an investigation.* With conclusive results, even.

And while it's easy to make up allegations, wholesale fabrication of committee findings is considerably more challenging.

(Which is why even the Benghazi committee wound up accomplishing very little.)

Like I've said, Trump-style demagoguery is not built to withstand the vicissitudes of holding real government power. President’s Trump biggest weakness is that he has no choice but to govern

Populist-authoritarian strategy works best when:
1.) You have an actual majority
2.) You've crippled countervailing state institutions

Trump lost the popular vote. And while countervailing institutions are indeed weak, Bannon, Miller et al have overestimated their weakness.

Which is why, for example, the White House was genuinely wrongfooted when the Muslim ban crashed and burned in court.

Vague but maybe helpful analogy: Trump is trying to govern like Augustus—but there hasn't been a Caesar, and Trump is bad at it besides.
posted by chris24 at 8:05 AM on March 5, 2017 [42 favorites]

Thing is, a congressional investigation is going to have to be bi-partisan.

Why would you think this? An investigation into Obama would be the same as the Chaeffetz/Gowdy Benghazi kangaroo committees. Republicans have the majority, they don't have to form a new committee for a new investigation, and Dems would have no control over which subpoenas were sent out. They would have a seat and get to ask questions at the hearings. That's it. Democrats could not take an Obama investigation and magically turn it into a Trump investigation without Republican majority agreement on the committee.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:06 AM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

Also, every time I find myself disbelieving anyone could be so stupid, I think of the Apple / publisher anti-trust case. The big five publishers literally met for dinner in a private room at a New York restaurant to discuss price fixing, and took notes.

I get that anti-trust enforcement has been lax for like...70 years, but dude. You still don't meet with your competitors in private, without counsel present, to discuss prices. And then take notes.

People who run legacy businesses are not necessarily smart enough to run a 5k on their own.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:06 AM on March 5, 2017 [26 favorites]

Democrats could not take an Obama investigation and magically turn it into a Trump investigation without Republican majority agreement on the committee.

It's an investigation of Obama investigating Trump. Hard to do one without looking into the reality and merits of the other. Not to say shitty Rs won't try, but hard to control info, leaks and where things lead, and they know that. And know what they could find. I think this is going to be like Trump's call for Congress to investigate voter fraud. Where they know it's ridiculous and basically ignore it.
posted by chris24 at 8:11 AM on March 5, 2017

Is the investigation into the did-not-happen Obamatapp going to run in parallel with the investigation into the did-not-happen mass voting fraud? (What's not-happening there, anyway?).

Can we have a permanent committee onnon-existent things? It would probably be more efficient.
posted by Devonian at 8:14 AM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

An investigation of Obama investigating trump might be the cover republicans need to investigate trump.
posted by ian1977 at 8:15 AM on March 5, 2017 [10 favorites]

Along those same lines, pyramid termite: the chronic IOKIYAR and nothing-to-see-here-ism among Congressional Republicans aside, I'm interested too in the ways that Trump's own (totally avoidable, totally unnecessary, totally inept) antics might bite him in the ass, if the world ever regains its sanity (and the Ds ever regain enough seats).

He wants to have Obama investigated, calling him out personally as a wiretapper and a Russia stooge? He wants to publicly denigrate the integrity of the intelligence community and the federal judiciary? He wants to casually insult sitting members of Congress and the major press outlets?

People in these positions do not hold insignificant power, and are extremely well-connected in a world Trump knows nothing about. Trump cares about keeping his dirt to himself about as much as a tornado does. I'd like to believe Revenge of the Grownups is going to be fucking huge, and I'm itching to see what shape it takes.
posted by Rykey at 8:18 AM on March 5, 2017 [29 favorites]

They[democrats] would have a seat and get to ask questions at the hearings. That's it.

Not for nothing, but that's how Sessions got tripped up.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:19 AM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

Sen. Schumer: "I do not comment on classified briefings." *stone faced silence*

Carter Page, I believe Sen. Schumer has a lesson for you on how to say "no comment." Carter Page to the white courtesy phone, please.
posted by fedward at 8:23 AM on March 5, 2017 [8 favorites]

Twenty questions from Lawfare:

Ten Questions for President Trump and Ten More Questions for President Trump.

"To the extent any wiretap you revealed yesterday was previously classified, your tweets have declassified the fact of its existence. Do you agree that the FBI, DOJ, and the FISA Court are now at liberty to confirm the existence of any FISA surveillance that may have been taking place at Trump Tower or against its occupants?"

"To whatever extent you have revealed FISA surveillance in a series of tweets, with which agencies, if any, did you consult before declassifying presumably sensitive material about a foreign counterintelligence investigation that is by most accounts still ongoing?"
posted by MonkeyToes at 8:26 AM on March 5, 2017 [43 favorites]

The 'no such wiretap activity against POTUS or campaign' doesn't rule out that they were doing their regular monitoring of the Russians and Trump & Co kept calling and meeting them. So still holding out hope for transcripts.

I actually learned this the other day. That would be illegal. Unless you have a warrant, if you are doing regular monitoring and an American is on the phone, you need to hang up.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:27 AM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

@HeerJeet
1. A lesson from Watergate. When GOP scandal breaks conservatives can follow the George Will model or the M. Stanton Evans model.
2. During Watergate, Nixon's popularity flagged with general population but a certain type of right-winger became more pro-Nixon.
3. Lots of right-wingers disliked Nixon on policy grounds (China, detente, environment, wage/price) but started loving him during Watergate
4. Despite their policy dislike of Nixon, he was a GOP president under attack from Dems & media, so they rallied behind him.
5. M. Stanton Evans spoke for many on the right when he said he "never liked Nixon until Watergate."
6. George Will, who was National Review columnist during Watergate, was the opposite of Evans. Sharply critical of president.
7. Will's criticism of Nixon made him unpopular with National Review readers, who accused him of being sell out (or in 2017 terms, a cuck).
8. Question many conservative pundits might have to ask themselves: will they follow George Will of 1973 or M. Stanton Evans of 1973?
9. For conservative pundits, even or especially former Never Trumpers, incentive structure is to defend him now & win audience loyalty.
10. Many of Trump's more deranged comments make sense if you realize he's trying to create M. Stanton Evans type loyalists & lead them.

---

And stunningly, a certain pundit seems to be still opting for the Will model.

@JoeNBC
Did Trump trash the 44th President and slime American democracy based on a conspiracy theory pushed on talk radio and website? That's sick.
posted by chris24 at 8:28 AM on March 5, 2017 [68 favorites]

Oh wow, I hadn't noticed the jujitsu in this statement in the NYT article from chris24's post:

“A cardinal rule of the Obama administration was that no White House official ever interfered with any independent investigation led by the Department of Justice,” Kevin Lewis, Mr. Obama’s spokesman, said in a statement on Saturday.

That could be read as confirming awareness of a DOJ investigation. I wonder if that was on purpose.
posted by fedward at 8:29 AM on March 5, 2017 [14 favorites]

And stunningly, a certain pundit seems to be still opting for the Will model.

@JoeNBC
Did Trump trash the 44th President and slime American democracy based on a conspiracy theory pushed on talk radio and website? That's sick.

This is especially notable to me because Joe has been, frankly, deranged in his hatred of Obama for so many years.
posted by sallybrown at 8:31 AM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

This morning:

Chuck Todd: "Are you concerned the president has a credibility problem?"
Marco Rubio: "He's doing exactly what he said he was going to do."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:31 AM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

I'm taking some time to catch up with the Blue threads after a few weeks off while I, um, processed cutting off my entire family of origin and grieving that. So I apologize if I miss some context, but my partner and I are here a few hours early for our Congressional Rep's town hall and I am full of emotions at the same time as I'm sitting in my hands in the middle of the auditorium trying not to get in anyone's way. I figured I might as well report while I wait, and this is as good a place as any.

Lloyd's office only officially announced this town hall three days ago by emailing people who had specifically requested a town hall letting us know it would happen and asking us to rsvp. I got back immediately saying yes, I wanted to come, and also my roomie, my partner, and at least one other friend would also like to. The rep got back to me within hours apologizing profusely and asking that we who had asked for a town hall limit ourselves to one guest so we didn't overwhelm the space, so my partner got dibs on my spot. We were told that the rep would be here at 12p and that the event would start at 11a but "come early," so we turned up at 930a on the grounds that everything we've tried to go to has gotten real crowded real fast and we'd like to find parking. This may have been slightly too early, hence me shyly sitting in the auditorium texting you all, but it's been worth it to watch everyone setting up and talk to folks here. We, um, we're literally the first two non volunteering attendees here.

(Everyone is very friendly. I've had at least four people approach me to chat and check in and make sure we aren't overwhelmed volunteers or something, so I'm composing this in between chats with people in meeting here.)

There are booths and desks everywhere and a great big cheery banner from ATXIndivisible. There are booths for Rural Outreach Texas and Civil Rights Texas and Degerrymandering Texas and our district's involvement team and teams for every other local rep and Planned Parenthood and t shirts and first aid and something very interesting covered in Marvel superheroes. There's a booth for registering to vote, either yourself or other people, and one for finding your rep and one for crowdsourcing good slogans. A local singer is warming up on the stage and volunteers are swarming enthusiastically, with security folks wearing holographic Captain America stickers and purple ribbons. (Someone here is a massive Marvel nerd and I want to find them and make friends now.)

There are live tweeting channels setting up and a pack of note cards with a sign that reminds us that we all have sixty seconds to ask our question and asks us to line up at the note card station to ask. The lady sitting in front of me brought four questions and is mulling over which is most important for now. I don't yet have one - - I'm here to be publicly grateful and talk to people and be an enthusiastically cheering face in the crowd - - but my partner has confidently put down a bit on a card talking about our immigration journey, to be humanizing, and is now considering whether to ask Mr. Doggett what he's doing to raise awareness of the inanity of the immigration process among non immigrants or to ask him what he is doing to keep immigrant mothers together with their children. I am thinking about asking about a number of things, or whether I should sit and listen.

It's finally time to sign in, so I suppose it's also time to hit post.
posted by sciatrix at 8:33 AM on March 5, 2017 [94 favorites]

The 'no such wiretap activity against POTUS or campaign' doesn't rule out that they were doing their regular monitoring of the Russians and Trump & Co kept calling and meeting them. So still holding out hope for transcripts.
---
I actually learned this the other day. That would be illegal. Unless you have a warrant, if yo u are doing regular monitoring and an American is on the phone, you need to hang up.

Do you have a cite? Because I've read the opposite. They can only listen in on Americans when monitoring foreigners.

After Michael Flynn’s Resignation, Surveillance Defenders Suddenly Care About Wiretap Abuse

Yet after the news of Flynn’s resignation, several traditional surveillance defenders rushed to the defense of his privacy rights as an “American citizen.”

The surveillance-touting Wall Street Journal in an editorial Monday dropped its usual use of the term “intelligence professionals” to question whether “U.S. spooks” had a court order to listen to Flynn’s conversations.

What’s particularly ironic about Nunes’s comments was that he seemed to be ignoring one of the biggest gaps in U.S. surveillance law — one which he has personally defended — that allows the government to spy on millions of Americans without any sort of probable cause by targeting their communications with people overseas.

“The concept that many Americans’ communications are incidentally recorded when speaking to foreign targets is Foreign Intelligence 101,” said Jake Laperruque, senior counsel at the Constitution Project. “It’s hard to believe a competent intelligence committee chair doesn’t understand this.”

The Wall Street Journal has also celebrated the law that contains the loophole and after its reauthorization in 2013 praised Obama as an “unapologetic asserter of Presidential powers.”

In 2015, Reps. Zoe Loefgren, D-Calif., and Thomas Massie, R-Ky., introduced an amendment that would have required the FBI to get a search warrant in the exact situation Flynn is facing: when they rely on capabilities of the NSA to target international communications that involve Americans.

But rather than expressing concern then, Nunes sent a letter to his colleagues opposing the measure. “When the Intelligence Community acquires the communications of CT [counterterrorism] or CI [counterintelligence] targets abroad, among the most critical issues is to determine if they are communicating with persons in the United States,” he wrote.

posted by chris24 at 8:34 AM on March 5, 2017 [18 favorites]

This morning:

Chuck Todd: "Are you concerned the president has a credibility problem?"
Marco Rubio: "He's doing exactly what he said he was going to do."

In six months:

Chuck Todd: "Are you concerned that the president has made it illegal to 'look too Mexican'?"
Marco Rubio: "He's primarily composed of oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus."
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:34 AM on March 5, 2017 [40 favorites]

Can we have a permanent committee onnon-existent things? It would probably be more efficient.

This whole process is making me think that the First Law of Metaphysics (nothing unreal exists) is either broken or wrong; it certainly seems like unreal things are being conjured into existence on a regular basis.
posted by nubs at 8:35 AM on March 5, 2017

Do you have a cite? Because I've read the opposite. They can only listen in on Americans when monitoring foreigners.

It was on the Maddow show.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:36 AM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

The ease with which the "Obama's Watergate" line has been gobbled up by the base suggests that things are balanced pretty precariously right now.

If a substantial cohort believes that winning an election through nefarious foreign deals: a) grants you immunity from prosecution for whatever shit you did to win; b) opens whoever investigated you to their own investigation, and those in power fall behind that position, then yeah, the republic's over.
posted by holgate at 8:38 AM on March 5, 2017 [12 favorites]

ABC7NY: Headstones toppled at Jewish cemetery in Brooklyn
posted by Room 641-A at 8:41 AM on March 5, 2017 [9 favorites]

Obama "wiretapping" Trump and the information just now coming out 2 months after he's inagurated is like Hilary using "three million illegal votes" but only in California and New York. Makes perfect sense.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:43 AM on March 5, 2017 [11 favorites]

ABC7NY: Headstones toppled at Jewish cemetery in Brooklyn

We also had AWFUL wind here yesterday. I would not be surprised if the cemetery's denial of vandalism is that they know it was weather related.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:43 AM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

IANAL, so would love for the lawyers to chime in, but yeah my understanding was that there was a huge, legal dragnet on all communications overseas. That would still seem to imply that there would have to be a warrant for any recording here? I have no idea. But it wouldn't necessarily have to be a FISA warrant right? Which is what has been theorized (and specifically denied) to exist?

Like I don't think you need a FISA warrant for a regular old criminal conspiracy.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:45 AM on March 5, 2017

A friend posted this on FB from Borowitz (who I'm hot and more cold on), but it seems patently true.

HOW TRUMP GETS HIS NEWS:
1) Trump has paranoid thought
2) Trump shares it with Steve Bannon
3) Bannon shares it with Breitbart
4) Brietbart publishes it
5) Trump reads it in Breitbart and shouts in amazement, "THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I THOUGHT."
posted by chris24 at 8:48 AM on March 5, 2017 [160 favorites]

When it comes to FISA court stuff, you're sort of right, although they rarely meet a warrant request they don't like.

I used to think that as well but the reason for the high success rate isn't because they'll give them out to any agent with a hunch, it's because the government attorneys come in so ridiculously prepared with a good reason before they go after a FISA warrant.
posted by Talez at 8:52 AM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

Could Marco Rubio be any more of a weasel? (On the Trump wiretap tweet) Pressed to elaborate on “Meet the Press,” Mr. Rubio said, “I’m not going to be a part of a witch hunt, but I’m also not going to be a part of a cover-up.”
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:53 AM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

Sessions committed perjury and now the whole country is talking instead about whether OBAMA should be investigated.

Gotta hand it to the guy...Trump is a master manipulator.
posted by darkstar at 8:54 AM on March 5, 2017 [11 favorites]

Oh god, that sequence sounds more than plausible.

Someone suggested on Twitter that making shit up about Obama is a kind of "happy place" that the orange menace returns to when he's grumpy. It's also a kind of retreat into nasty racist stereotypes about the mysterious powers and capacity available to black people, the way that magahat types thought Obama was simultaneously weak and ineffectual but also secretly coming to put their guns in FEMA camps.
posted by holgate at 8:55 AM on March 5, 2017 [10 favorites]

I don't see how it's a witch hunt when all that has to be done is to point in any given direction and say "There's a witch!"
posted by jferg at 8:56 AM on March 5, 2017 [10 favorites]

Delightfully, the booths from other Austin districts have set up great big printouts of their own reps' faces or even bodies and are having folks from their districts pepper then with questions on post its. It's like an extremely angry version of pin the tail on the donkey.

None of them will hold town halls, you see. Lamar Smith's constituents have resorted to ambushing him at fundraising dinners, and McCaul's are clearly plotting something similar.
posted by sciatrix at 8:57 AM on March 5, 2017 [22 favorites]

I'm taking a brief pause from reality and entertaining myself with the the fantasy that there are wiretaps in Trump Tower, and they are part of a Marla/Melania double cross.
posted by erisfree at 9:01 AM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

“I’m not going to be a part of a witch hunt, but I’m also not going to be a part of a cover-up.”

Bad news on both fronts, dude.
posted by Artw at 9:05 AM on March 5, 2017 [10 favorites]

Congressman Himes: "I know this will end up being sticky, but yes, I did the tapping" #maplenotwire
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:06 AM on March 5, 2017 [15 favorites]

I used to think that as well but the reason for the high success rate isn't because they'll give them out to any agent with a hunch, it's because the government attorneys come in so ridiculously prepared with a good reason before they go after a FISA warrant.

I really doubt this is true. They've only denied like a dozen requests in almost 40 years. That would be an amazing track record for the US Attorneys. Not to mention, the person to be put under surveillance can't offer any kind of challenge to the information presented, so essentially nothing stops the gov't from just plain lying (and yes, they do just plain lie). As far as I can tell, all the FBI needs to do is say "we have probable cause based on information from confidential informants to believe that that Bob is a terrorist" and they get their warrant. That confidential informant might be telling the truth, or they might be prompted by the FBI to say what the feds want them to say, or they might be lying because they want to keep working the CI angle. But since the FISA court process is secret, we have no way of knowing. But this is a derail, I suppose.
posted by dis_integration at 9:06 AM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

The guy's rocking a Samsung Galaxy 3. A dog with a stick could tap that.
posted by Devonian at 9:10 AM on March 5, 2017 [10 favorites]

Gotta hand it to the guy...Trump is a master manipulator.

No, he is not. Don't give him that credit. There's just a lot of spineless tools willing to go on TV and parrot whatever demented garbage he's tweeting about.
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:10 AM on March 5, 2017 [59 favorites]

Congressman Himes: "I know this will end up being sticky, but yes, I did the tapping" #maplenotwire

Oh geat, now we're going to go to war with Canada.
posted by Artw at 9:13 AM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

darkstar:

What I'm finding so upsetting about Trump's misdirections is that they prove how vulnerable our legal system is on a macro scale to public opinion. Some national political figure commits perjury in plain fact? Can't prosecute unless at least 60-70% of the populace is on board, otherwise it's a "witch hunt".
posted by constantinescharity at 9:15 AM on March 5, 2017 [40 favorites]

I wonder whether the reported bugs in Trump Tower is why the president hasn't returned there since the Inauguration. Related, do we know if he's even seen Barron since then? He hasn't been visible in any of the Palm Beach Airport/Air Force One tarmac photo ops featuring Melania. Trump has twice used the trope of holding his grandchildren's hands en route from the White House to Marine One, however, prior to his weekend Mar-a-Lago jaunts.
posted by carmicha at 9:16 AM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

From Lawfare's Ten More Questions posted above, I find this one legally intriguing:

[H]ave you or your counsel considered the question of whether a tweet from the @realDonaldTrump Twitter account that contains a slander or a libel is an official presidential act for which you are immune from liability under Nixon v. Fitzgerald or whether it is personal conduct for which you might be subject to suit under Clinton v. Jones?

This seems like a fascinating issue: for a figure whose personal life is as circumscribed by the job as the President of the United States, where is the line between work-product and personal activity? The good news is that no matter where that line is, this is bad for Trump. Either his tweets are personal and Obama has a pretty good case for slander (or libel; is Twitter regarded as speech or print?) against DJT as a private citizen, or they are presidential product which comes with an awful lot of extraordinary implications with regard to recordkeeping, policy relevance, and citability as indicative of official White House positions (e.g. the plaintiffs would be utterly thrilled to be able to point at Trump's twitter as representing the official administration position in Washington v. Trump).
posted by jackbishop at 9:20 AM on March 5, 2017 [69 favorites]

White House requests Congress investigate whether Obama administration abused power

"NO PUPPET! NO PUPPET! YOU'RE THE PUPPET!"
posted by Talez at 9:20 AM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

He's only good at manipulating because so many people so desperately want to be manipulated.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:21 AM on March 5, 2017 [21 favorites]

Senator Angus King is holding a town hall down the street from me in about four hours, which is weirdly limited to the topic of Neil Gorsuch. If you guys have anything you'd like me to say/ask about the SCOTUS Nominee beyond "this is bullshit" let me know by 330.
posted by anastasiav at 9:21 AM on March 5, 2017 [8 favorites]

Guys
Guys
Guys

What if this just the best viral marketing campaign ever for the Wire Season 6?
posted by nubs at 9:23 AM on March 5, 2017 [11 favorites]

Is it fair fir Trump to appoint a Supreme Court judge during an election campaign?
posted by Artw at 9:24 AM on March 5, 2017 [36 favorites]

That would be illegal. Unless you have a warrant, if you are doing regular monitoring and an American is on the phone, you need to hang up.

Maybe for a PI or private citizen? But NSA? Is it a question of *if* they have all phone records, texts, and data?

If not, is it a question of whether or not someone belly-crawled into Trump Tower under the cover of darkness with a black knit hat and gloves, to a tootly flute and claves tension soundtrack, opened the telco box and alligator-clipped a recieve-only handset to it, and scribbled furiously as Manafort and Trump discuss how the heist will go down?

"Wiretap" in Trumpese (tapp) is like "Yes, I’d like to send this letter to the Prussian consulate in Siam by aeromail. Am I too late for the 4:30 autogyro?"
posted by petebest at 9:28 AM on March 5, 2017 [11 favorites]

Is the wiretap charge against Obama, just a reflexive admission of guilt on Trump's part? I know you are, but what am I?
posted by Oyéah at 9:31 AM on March 5, 2017

@realDonaldTrump

Thank you for the great rallies all across the country. Tremendous support. Make America Great Again!

Does he need another adoring-crowd ego boost?
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:33 AM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Thing is, a congressional investigation is going to have to be bi-partisan. Rs can't just do it themselves. And Dems with subpoena power...

In general, all subpoenas have to be voted on by the committee. Republicans hold a majority on all committees. Effectively, Democrats have no subpoena power at all. Typically Republicans will toss the Democrats a bone for a witness or two in a show of fairness, but they have a record of simply denying subpoenas for particularly damaging Democratic witnesses.

In addition, in 2015, House Republicans put in a new rule allowing the committee chairmen, all Republicans, to unilaterally issue subpoenas without even a committee vote. Don't know if the rule was extended to the new session.

Democrats really have no congressional leverage here. They can only battle it out in the press.
posted by JackFlash at 9:33 AM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

I mean...why wouldn't a responsible leader wire tap that crazy treasonous puddle of pig shit?

Because it wouldn't be legal. The President cannot order a wiretap.
posted by Justinian at 9:37 AM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

Not sure there's much reputation to save, but point taken.

@TVietor08
It's telling that the WH is putting out low-level aides on Sunday shows. Senior staff understand that their reputations will be destroyed.
posted by chris24 at 9:39 AM on March 5, 2017 [39 favorites]

Senator Angus King is holding a town hall down the street from me in about four hours, which is weirdly limited to the topic of Neil Gorsuch. If you guys have anything you'd like me to say/ask about the SCOTUS Nominee beyond "this is bullshit" let me know by 330.

I think you are obligated to ask why Trump should be allowed to nominate a judge at what is clearly the end of his term.
posted by entropicamericana at 9:39 AM on March 5, 2017 [59 favorites]

If there's a Republican investigation of Obama but there is no independent special prosecutor appointed to investigate Trump then the country is finished. I don't know if it'll be finished because that's the final straw that forces the Democrats to find their spines, or if it'll be finished because it makes Trump's Cold Civil War a hot Civil War, or if it'll be finished because that's when we all descend into a Fascist state that has abandoned all pretense of being descended from America, but one way or another if they do that then the country is over.

The sheer, breathtaking audacity of reversing the entire US history of not prosecuting political enemies simply because they're political enemies and simultaneously shielding a Republican President from an investigation into rather well documented wrongdoing is something the country can't survive.

A few days ago I was breathing a bit easier, Trump seemed to have backed down from his anti-American, dictatorial, idea that he could simply ignore the Courts. It seemed as if he were simply going to be bog standard Republican plus embarrassing Tweetertantrums that might risk international ties.

Now my anxiety has surged again.

Obama ignored evidence of actual, no fooling, war crimes committed by his predecessor. I thought then, and still do, that it was wrong of him to do so. But Obama was firmly committed to the tradition of leaving former presidents alone regardless of their crimes.

Now, on nothing but conspiracy ravings from far right wing fringe publications, Trump is threatening to try and jail Obama, and his followers are lapping it up. They want revenge for Obama winning, they want to punish him for having the gall to be black and Democratic and win two Presidential elections, they want (still) to essentially undo his Presidency so they can claim he never really was President in some essential way.

And the Republicans seem to be ignoring genuine crimes, genuine conflicts of interest that are well documented, in favor of attacking Obama over fantasies.

Surely Ryan and McConnell realize that if they go forward with this anti-Obama witch hunt while totally ignoring Trump's blatant crimes the country won't hold together? We're barely holding together right now, it won't take much to push us into actual open civil war, and going after Obama is enough to do it.

It's long past time for them to stop playing chicken with the survival of the nation.

Are they either so delusional they think they can get away with this? Or are they outright planning to start a civil war?
posted by sotonohito at 9:41 AM on March 5, 2017 [87 favorites]

Does he need another adoring-crowd ego boost?

I wonder if he saw any photos of thebtinybtrunpnrallies yesterday? DSA drawing bigger crowds.
posted by Artw at 9:46 AM on March 5, 2017

House Intelligence Chair Says He Will Investigate Eavesdropping Claims

Welp there we go. Now it's an Obama scandal and Trump is totally cleared of wrongdoing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:51 AM on March 5, 2017 [8 favorites]

The sheer, breathtaking audacity of reversing the entire US history of not prosecuting political enemies simply because they're political enemies and simultaneously shielding a Republican President from an investigation into rather well documented wrongdoing is something the country can't survive.

It's the shielding that gets me. Ryan, Nunes, and Chaffetz could do something about it, and the fact they aren't says volumes about who they are and what they want. McConnell is shielded by Senate rules and is good at not saying anything that might get him in trouble, so while I think his behavior is pretty vile I get the feeling he's more interested in preserving the majority than anything else.

Are they either so delusional they think they can get away with this? Or are they outright planning to start a civil war?

To the extent they've thought about it at all in those terms, I think they want the former but they've decided the latter is an acceptable risk. But I think mostly they're not even delusional, they're just insulated from both a broader reality and from any consequences of getting it wrong.
posted by fedward at 9:52 AM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

House Intelligence Chair Says He Will Investigate Eavesdropping Claims

Nunes, as many of you recall, was a member of Trump's transition team.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:52 AM on March 5, 2017 [19 favorites]

Nah, "make inquiries" is code for he'll laugh about it over a coffee with a colleague.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:53 AM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

House Intelligence Chair Says He Will Investigate Eavesdropping Claims

"As such, the Committee will make inquiries into whether the government was conducting surveillance activities on any political party’s campaign officials or surrogates, and we will continue to investigate this issue if the evidence warrants it."

This is about as weak tea as Nunes can get without provoking/angering Trump.
posted by sallybrown at 9:55 AM on March 5, 2017 [13 favorites]

thebtinybtrunpnrallies

Sorry, "tiny trump rallies". I'm worse with my phone than Tiny Hands sometimes.
posted by Artw at 9:55 AM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Gotta hand it to the guy...Trump is a master manipulator.

i feel like the country is trying to have a conversation in a room with a sugar-addled six-year old who keeps screaming "I WENT POOPY" whenever he gets bored and folks are talking about the kid like "you know, i was just about to tie up a very cogent argument when the kid said 'POOPY' - he really knows how to work a room."
posted by murphy slaw at 9:57 AM on March 5, 2017 [39 favorites]

When is the next Spicey Time? Should be entertaining.

The whole ban-the-grownups business of keeping the NYT, BBC et al out of the press briefings seems to have quietly dissipated. Did I miss something, or did everyone agree to move on after the toddler trantrum that doubtless precipitated it?
posted by Devonian at 9:57 AM on March 5, 2017

I don't think I saw any coverage of the "gaggle" outside of the attempts to ban the press, so maybe they decided it wasn't an effective form of messaging?
posted by Artw at 10:00 AM on March 5, 2017

Video shows heated Oval Office meeting

On the day of the Sessions grumpiness, someone filmed through a window of the Oval Office and caught a glimpse of the Trumpenbunker. Includes Bannon finger-pointing, Kushner lurking and the back of an interjecting Ivanka's head.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:00 AM on March 5, 2017 [23 favorites]

Former Reagan Aide: “Trump is decimating State Dept…to force military solutions”
posted by StrawberryPie at 10:00 AM on March 5, 2017 [32 favorites]

Military "solutions". Oh god.
posted by Artw at 10:01 AM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

Video shows heated Oval Office meeting

Bannon looks pissed

Is this what a fine tuned machine looks like?
posted by dis_integration at 10:01 AM on March 5, 2017 [19 favorites]

That was never the discussion. It was proposed by someone that, as a price for getting Republican cooperation, the Democrats needed to abandon some unspecified, policies, talking points, protests, or causes.

I think - and thank god - we are misunderstanding each other. I was reading you as saying that Democrats shouldn't help remove Trump until they had extracted policy concessions from Republicans, and it sounds like you were reading me as saying the reverse. I am 1000% not, and it sounds like you aren't either. I will work with fucking Bob Avakian if he has a solid way of getting us out of this mess.

I do think once the immediate threat is over, we need to figure out tactics for stopping the cold Civil War, and it'll be a lot harder to figure out agreement there. But we have to live and save the Republic first.
posted by corb at 10:08 AM on March 5, 2017 [28 favorites]

Ivanka "no role in the administration" Trump
posted by melissasaurus at 10:08 AM on March 5, 2017 [48 favorites]

Video shows heated Oval Office meeting

Hahahaha holy SHIT Is literally everyone on the White House grounds leaking constantly?
posted by schadenfrau at 10:08 AM on March 5, 2017 [39 favorites]

somebody should replace the this-is-fine dog with an elephant
posted by entropicamericana at 10:10 AM on March 5, 2017 [10 favorites]

Thought-provoking series of tweets by Derek Thompson: you don’t need a media dictatorship to build 21st-c Pravda; in the right conditions, it will self-construct under attn-driven economics
posted by StrawberryPie at 10:12 AM on March 5, 2017 [12 favorites]

Tweet-storm about epistemological fragmentation due to attention-driven economics. I think my whole world is about to vanish in a puff of irony.
posted by Coventry at 10:15 AM on March 5, 2017 [24 favorites]

Ivanka "no role in the administration" Trump

Savvy Ivanka with her back to the window. I hope before this trainwreck is over, she's somehow caught red-handed enabling this BS in a way that will forever silence the "But she's so elegant and nice!" crowd.
posted by sallybrown at 10:16 AM on March 5, 2017 [21 favorites]

So presumably our usual foreign allies have the goods on Trump and Russia, and possibly, at this point, other foreign intelligence services do too.

At what point do they start leaking? Like if Europe genuinely sees the US sliding towards Civil War, at what point do they try to kneecap the GOP so as to prevent the nightmare scenario of a militaristic fascist regime run by an actual demented insane person in control of the most terrifying military arsenal ever assembled?

You have to assume that everyone is adjusting to a future without American hegemony, but that's...really different from ignoring the crazy person with a giant gun. Like at what point are we too much of a danger to the rest of the world for them to sit on whatever they have?

And will it fucking matter?
posted by schadenfrau at 10:16 AM on March 5, 2017 [20 favorites]

In case your nerves are starting to quiver, here is this, to put into the mix. Coming to a city near you, we will be happy, or very sleepy, or suffer from mass, new onset, memory problems. Wait...
posted by Oyéah at 10:18 AM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Hahahaha holy SHIT Is literally everyone on the White House grounds leaking constantly?

Like a piss tape.

In other news, who wants to read about this Gridiron Dinner? Sounds fun.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:19 AM on March 5, 2017

On the day of the Sessions grumpiness, someone filmed through a window of the Oval Office and caught a glimpse of the Trumpenbunker. Includes Bannon finger-pointing, Kushner lurking and the back of an interjecting Ivanka's head.

Is this not a scandal by itself? What the fuck is Ivanka Trump doing in these meetings?
posted by orbit-3 at 10:23 AM on March 5, 2017 [25 favorites]

Welp there we go. Now it's an Obama scandal and Trump is totally cleared of wrongdoing.

#Bothsidesdoit
posted by longdaysjourney at 10:24 AM on March 5, 2017

Video shows heated Oval Office meeting

It also shows flowers starting to bloom in DC. It's getting to be Springtime...
posted by armacy at 10:29 AM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

So... does anyone lip-read well?
posted by Capybara at 10:33 AM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

I can't think of anybody Bannon would be pointing at but Priebus. Any other ideas? I guess Kushner is possible, but c'mon. The Bannon-Priebus Alt-Right ASMR friendship is long-soured.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:35 AM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

So... does anyone lip-read well?

It's a Downfall video. Supply any captions you like.
posted by Surely This at 10:36 AM on March 5, 2017 [27 favorites]

Springtime for Twitler and kleptocracy too, but winter for Ryan and Reince.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:37 AM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Video shows heated Oval Office meeting

Cue Twitler tantrum in . . . 3 . . . 2 . . .
posted by petebest at 10:39 AM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

This is for whoever was watching Sex and the City, etc. 5 Movie Plots That No Longer Make Sense Post-Trump

"Seeing him in an otherwise-fun movie nowadays is like finding a piece of rat shit in an otherwise-delicious bowl of ice cream."
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:41 AM on March 5, 2017 [11 favorites]

I can't think of anybody Bannon would be pointing at but Priebus. Any other ideas?

It was reported that McGahn was being yelled at, by Trump at least if not Bannon. I'm not sure why they expected the White House counsel to somehow magically stop Sessions from recusing himself or notifying the WH that he was going to do it. Are these boobs under the impression that McGahn and Sessions have each other on speed-dial or are in cahoots just because they're both lawyers?
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:43 AM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

How Nunes sees the situation going down:

Nunes: "Now let's find out who the real wiretapper is..."
All: "FORMER PRESIDENT OBAMA!"
Obama: "Now let's talk about how one might have gotten away with this act if not for the meddling of alt-right individuals who reported on the allegations and convinced Republican house members to investigate this affair"
posted by Talez at 10:43 AM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

Friends is another show where Trump-as-joke popped up when I was least expecting it. Could I BE more disgusted?
posted by thebrokedown at 10:46 AM on March 5, 2017 [10 favorites]

This is for whoever was watching Sex and the City, etc. 5 Movie Plots That No Longer Make Sense Post-Trump

Marvel's bug summer event has Captain America, who has turned out to be a Nazi all along*, leading a Hydra takeover of the world. It's the worst timed crossover ever.

* cosmic cube related time fuckery to blame. It's like the fifth time he's turned out to be a Nazi, because there's only so many Captain America plots.
posted by Artw at 10:51 AM on March 5, 2017 [8 favorites]

Al-jazeera have a pretty good screed on alt-right, and why the term is importantly different from neo-nazi.

The campaign to stop calling them alt-right comes from an overemphasis on the power of language. There is this notion that the movement will be weakened if we change the label - as if the label is where their power comes from.
posted by stonepharisee at 10:54 AM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

I love catching up with the thread and seeing "music for weird black girls" and "groot's oldest friend" as the bookend posts. It's a little reminder of the goodness out there and an inspiration to keep it alive.
posted by Caxton1476 at 10:54 AM on March 5, 2017 [13 favorites]

Did big data help sway the 2016 election? Stanford's Dr. Michal Kosinski argues that big data analysis can help a campaign, but it's the candidates that win elections (video autoplays.)

Kosinski was mentioned in the article about Robert Mercer's multimillion-dollar propaganda network which has been linked several times in these threads.
posted by homunculus at 10:54 AM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

Ivanka "no role in the administration" Trump

I really think Ivanka and Jared are always around to cover up Trump's dementia, much the way Nancy was always around to whisper in Reagan's ear when he froze up.
posted by JackFlash at 10:54 AM on March 5, 2017 [46 favorites]

Can we finally end the "poor Ivanka" shit now? SHE'S LITERALLY IN THE ROOM IN EVERY MEETING. She is for all practical purposes, co-President. She's responsible for all of it. And if there's ever a trial, she needs to be prosecuted alongside her father.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:58 AM on March 5, 2017 [111 favorites]

Video shows heated Oval Office meeting

Who the hell took that? Is the gardener out there with an iPhone filming in the window. This seems like a pretty huge breach of security; how does the Secret Service let such a thing happen?
posted by octothorpe at 11:02 AM on March 5, 2017 [9 favorites]

Domald Tromp Pounded In The Butt By His Fabricated Wiretapping Scandal Made Up To Redirect Focus Away From His Seemingly Endless Unethical Connections To Russia
posted by zombieflanders at 11:02 AM on March 5, 2017 [83 favorites]

National Book Award, Nonfiction, all tied up.
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:04 AM on March 5, 2017 [13 favorites]

And for none or all of the reasons, An animated gif of Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio tap dancing to a piano-playing Mitch McConnell

(via 4shared which so far as I can tell is 'free file sharing' and not related to any other sites with 4 in the URL)
posted by petebest at 11:05 AM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

Video shows heated Oval Office meeting

Who the hell took that? Is the gardener out there with an iPhone filming in the window. This seems like a pretty huge breach of security; how does the Secret Service let such a thing happen?

It was the press corps (as reported in the CNN article from yesterday that's waaay upthread somewhere). Just routine media stuff - maybe they are always there or maybe they were on the lawn at that time because it was right before Trump walked out to get in the helicopter on his way down to FL.
posted by sallybrown at 11:05 AM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

Who the hell took that? Is the gardener out there with an iPhone filming in the window.

Chris Christie paused for a moment in fulfilling his orders to mow the white house grounds with his teeth, and produced the iphone he had cleverly hidden within his person.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:07 AM on March 5, 2017 [26 favorites]

Stuffed in his false leg.
posted by Artw at 11:09 AM on March 5, 2017 [8 favorites]

They're replaying Meet the Press and I'm struck by how at ease Rubio seems, especially considering he's on the Senate Intel Committee. He's not spinning to try and help Trump or being as evasive as usual. He looks well-rested and calm. I had forgotten how insistent he was during the campaign about not discussing or using the Wikileaks documents (smart man). It's a reminder that even if Nunes is in Trump's pocket, there are GOP members of the Intel committee who have more mixed motivations...I imagine it would feel really good to Liddle Marco if he was able to expose Trump's campaign as illegal and potentially set himself up to run again in 2020.
posted by sallybrown at 11:18 AM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

Who the hell took that? Is the gardener out there with an iPhone filming in the window. This seems like a pretty huge breach of security; how does the Secret Service let such a thing happen?

I bet the networks re-check that sightline with every new administration.
posted by klarck at 11:19 AM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

In his cameo in The Little Rascals, Trump plays the father of the stuck-up bully rich kid. Watching him is like watching OJ in The Naked Gun movies.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:26 AM on March 5, 2017 [20 favorites]

Nah, "make inquiries" is code for he'll laugh about it over a coffee with a colleague.

I thought this quote from Susan Collins on Face The Nation about the wiretapping used an interesting choice of words (emphasis mine):

Collins added, “The committee’s work is underway. I am convinced that we are going to do the kind of exhaustive, in-depth, and prompt investigation that will help put these allegations to rest.”

Not "get to the the truth" but "put to rest."

Hahahaha holy SHIT Is literally everyone on the White House grounds leaking constantly

At this point I imagine WH meetings include one person wearing a MAGA hat with an embedded video recorder, one person carrying a hollowed-out copy of "Art of the Deal" with a hidden tape recorder, maybe one person with an Ivanka brand tie clip that takes video, and probably Trump asking why he keeps having to talk into the bouquet of flowers.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:26 AM on March 5, 2017 [33 favorites]

In his cameo in The Little Rascals, Trump plays the father of the stuck-up bully rich kid. Watching him is like watching OJ in The Naked Gun movies.

I don't know about that, people used to like OJ back then.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:36 AM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

Guys, if you have Kindle Unlimited this Trump Tingle is amazing and free.

“I’m serious,” the staffer announces, sternly. “Mr. Bammon says that after you eat all your dinner, you need to listen to these briefings. He’s the one in charge here, remember.”...

I’ve never been with a sentient manifestation of my own made up wiretapping tweet before, but as I gaze upon Gerbor’s incredible, toned body, the idea becomes more and more intriguing.

“Alright,” I finally say. “I’ll satisfy your cravings to understand physical reality in an intimate way as the man who brought you to sentience with his denial of said physical reality.”

posted by corb at 11:40 AM on March 5, 2017 [48 favorites]

Facebook has quietly rolled out its long-awaited solution to fake news

How to mark a news story as fake (on FB.)
posted by Coventry at 11:43 AM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

this Trump Tingle is amazing and free

It's also more readable than Camp of the Saints, a genocidal fantasy which Bannon often cites.
posted by Coventry at 11:46 AM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

I haven't read any Tingles (I'm afraid to), but I wasn't expecting that to sound so...coherent and big-word-using.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:46 AM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

Trump is really incensed and on the warpath:

Philip Rucker of WaPo: "Trump is angry in Florida. I’m told he fumed to friends at golf course yesterday about Obama, insisting he’s right about wiretap."

Josh Dawsey of Politico: "Trump friends, aides continuing to talk with him privately about tweets yesterday. He's "angry and not changing his mind," one tells me."

Trump's friend Chris Ruddy of Newsmax: "I spoke with the President twice yesterday about the wiretap story. I haven’t seen him this pissed off in a long time. When I mentioned Obama “denials” about the wiretaps, he shot back: “This will be investigated, it will all come out. I will be proven right.”"
posted by sallybrown at 11:49 AM on March 5, 2017 [26 favorites]

I want to take up a collection to buy booze and relaxing spa days for all the reporters who are being required to read Camp of the Saints.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:50 AM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

Jenfullmoon, Chuck Tingle is a competent writer.
posted by ryanrs at 11:50 AM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

Hugo nominated author Chuck Tingle.
posted by saturday_morning at 11:52 AM on March 5, 2017 [25 favorites]

There's a surprising amount of probably nonfiction in this, too.

“Who are Smirnov and Ivanov!?” the staffer shouts. I shrug. “Those guys who are paying me to change those trade deals with Russia.” “Trade deals?” the staffer question. “Please tell me the media hasn’t seen you golfing with these guys.” “Fake news,” I tell him, stopping at the door of the Oval Office and spinning around. “What?” the staffer asks. “Fake news,” I repeat. “Sir, you can’t just-” “Fake news,” I counter yet again.

posted by corb at 11:52 AM on March 5, 2017 [23 favorites]

I want to take up a collection to buy booze and relaxing spa days for all the reporters who are being required to read Camp of the Saints.

Should we try and inflict it on I Don't Even Own A Television or is that taking a fun thing and making it bad?
posted by Artw at 11:54 AM on March 5, 2017

Hey y'all, I have a couple of questions, the first one being slightly jovial in spirit.

There was an article recently (maybe in WaPo, or Guardian) about a meeting in Trump Tower in which the transcripts of which were leaked. The article mentioned that the meeting took place right after Trump met with Kanye West. I can't seem to find this, but I remember joking around with people that "Kanye West bugged Trump Tower!" Does anyone know what I'm talking about? I need it for my conspiracy theory that Kanye is a CIA spy.

Secondly, it would appear that there are at least a couple of times that Putin/spokespeople have said one thing in regard to relations between U.S. and Russia, only to suddenly reverse course after meeting with/talking to the Trump campaign. The one I can think of off the top of my head is Putin saying his meeting with Obama at G20 didn't show much in regard to future cooperation, then Sessions talks to Kislyak and suddenly the Russians release a statement saying they're excited to work toward further cooperation after the election. There's another situation just like this one that I can't remember the details of. Does anyone happen to have a list of circumstances where the Russians suddenly reversed course after talking with Trump's people? These were both public statements, as well, while the talks/meetings between Trump's people and the Russians were undisclosed.
posted by gucci mane at 11:54 AM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

I read one of Chuck Tingle's stories. It was not unpleasant to read. You're not going to be grinding your teeth over misspellings and poor grammar. You'll find occasional bits of word play that will make you laugh. He puts a decent amount of effort into his writing.

His books are a gimmick, but they are a well-executed gimmick.
posted by ryanrs at 11:57 AM on March 5, 2017 [8 favorites]

An FBI investigation, you say?

MmmmmmGo oooonnnnn . . .
posted by petebest at 12:00 PM on March 5, 2017

I love this video. "You're his spokesperson."

Given that we're not going to be seeing Ms. Huckabee-Sanders again, they are running to of people to send on Sundays.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:03 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

“This will be investigated, it will all come out. I will be proven right.”

Just like the birth certificate thing, eh, Donny?

Lols aside, what if "it all comes out" and he's, uh, y'know, fairly incontrovertibly implicated in some sub-rosa dealings with the Russians, and he's called to testify before congress, and subpoenaed for his tax returns, and further audited by the IRS, and the bottom drops out of his precious crazification approval ratings, and Priebus quits and goes on a Sunday-show tell-all spree about what a dumbass he is, and a copy of the piss tape suddenly shows up on YouTube, and and and ...

'It will all come out' are words this man should fear, not shout.
posted by eclectist at 12:04 PM on March 5, 2017 [23 favorites]

So has anyone managed to ask Jeff "Beauregard" Sessions what he thinks of all this?

Some people would say that if any of this were remotely true, the nation's top law-enforcement official would have a role in the investigation, but they might just be crazy-talking.

And if he's going to recuse himself from this too, better to get that recusal on the record.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:05 PM on March 5, 2017

are words this man should fear, not shout – except that T.D. Strange makes a good point about how any news of real warrants will be viewed by Trumpers as vindicating Trump's claims. They won't care about distinctions like who really ordered investigations or surveillance; they already disbelieve everthing any Dem says.

I am not comfortable at all with the current situation, even though I firmly believe Obama did not order any wiretaps or suchlike.
posted by StrawberryPie at 12:09 PM on March 5, 2017 [8 favorites]

They've only denied like a dozen requests in almost 40 years. That would be an amazing track record for the US Attorneys.

This came up last year year in a federal case in Boston involving a guy charged with conspiring with Usaamah Rahim to kill police in 2015 (Rahim was shot to death by a Boston cop and an FBI agent when he went after them with a large knife near his apartment, supposedly on his way to kill cops). The guy's lawyer asked for wiretaps, obtained through a FISA warrant, thrown out. US District Court Judge William Young ruled against the request, saying the FBI had shown scrupulous behavior in applying for the warrant. But then, he continued in his ruling to tear into the whole FISA process for being overly secretive. He said the question is not how many warrant requests the court throws out, because the government hasn't been going on fishing expeditions, but how many the court has modified to make more restrictive: 80 out of 1,457 in 2015 - and 10 out of 25 just in the Boston area - something nobody outside the government knows. "To continue as we are is to deny our citizens an understanding of the doctrine of separation of powers and sap the vitality of fundamental constitutional values."
posted by adamg at 12:12 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

Given that we're not going to be seeing Ms. Huckabee-Sanders again, they are running to of people to send on Sundays.

wait, was she fired, or are you just saying that the press is going to tell them to fuck off if they try to send her out again?
posted by murphy slaw at 12:12 PM on March 5, 2017

any news of real warrants will be viewed by Trumpers as vindicating Trump's claims. They won't care about distinctions like who really ordered investigations or surveillance; they already disbelieve everthing any Dem says.

Trumpers are going to believe whatever's tweeted and Gorka'd at them. Since the God-Emperor said it and his core of sycophants echo it, it is therefore true and if there was in fact no warrant, it does not matter: Obama personally tapped his wires in Trump Tower and that's that. I see no point in worrying about how Trump's base of support would react to facts coming to light in this case, since facts mean nothing to them.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:15 PM on March 5, 2017 [21 favorites]

We know for certain that facts have ceased to matter to a huge subset of the population. As of today, I am actually absolutely terrified that all the Russian quagmire will come to light only to be invalidated in the eyes of those who matter (Republicans, which will mean that Republican legislators will feel very free to ignore the whole thing) by the very fact that Obama was president at the time the investigation began. That is literally all they are going to need to discredit it.

Prove me wrong, 2017. Please, prove me wrong.
posted by lydhre at 12:15 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

murphy slaw, I can't imagine Trump was happy with her. Maybe he was.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:15 PM on March 5, 2017

A real FISA warrant means shady crap was going down. Let's do find and publish it! (Yeah Trump is right Yeah what is it what's it say)

All the "upper tier" spokesbots are holed up trying to figure out how to get out of this fine mess.
posted by petebest at 12:16 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

On the day of the Sessions grumpiness, someone filmed through a window of the Oval Office

this is much more significant than it seems - first of all, does anyone ever recall this sort of thing being done to obama or bush?

second of all, it's now feasable with today's tech to use a laser beam to eavesdrop on conversations due to the vibrations of the window

a message is being sent here - we're watching you and we have much more on you than you could possibly imagine

this is getting crazy
posted by pyramid termite at 12:18 PM on March 5, 2017 [9 favorites]

If it comes out there was an FBI investigation with a FISA warrant or "wiretap", that will "prove" Trump right in his eyes and the eyes of the Vichy Republicans, regardless of whether it was legitimate, not "ordered" by Obama himself. This is how they'll turn any legitimate investigation of Trump's Russian ties into justification for persecuting Democrats.

The march of Nazification is marching on. I'm sure Rubio and McCain are "concerned".

Well said. This is the horrible sinking feeling I was talking about before. No matter what, Obama bugging Trump's phones is now an official Alternative Fact. Anything that comes out about the FBI having legitimately surveilled Trump's contacts — clearly an indictment of Trump, in a sane world — will be viewed in that light by half of the country.

So now Obamatap joins Birth Certificate and 3-5 Million Illegal Votes, fitting comfortably in alongside Climate Change Is Fake, on the same shelf with entitlement reform and supply-side economics and deregulation. It's now GOP canon. Reps who take a stand to say it's madness will get primaried. Senators like Rubio and McCain will frown at it and change the subject. And the trenches of Cold Civil War are dug a little deeper.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:21 PM on March 5, 2017 [34 favorites]

it's now feasable with today's tech to use a laser beam to eavesdrop on conversations due to the vibrations of the window

Such devices have been in use for 70 years and it'd be absurd to think the Oval Office wasn't hardened against such eavesdropping.
posted by ryanrs at 12:22 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

Just to remind folks: it's old news that there was, indeed, a wiretap of Trump Tower last October.

The FBI is almost certainly in the middle of an investigation: hence Comey's closed-door meeting with the Senate Intel Committee several days ago.

Schumer, Collins, Nunes, et al., know all about it, but they're bound not to reveal anything Comey may have shared. So they're playing word games, while everyone knows, including Donald, that the FBI is continuing to investigate.

So the wiretap exists. The only question now is what is on the tape and whether it will be prosecuted by DoJ.

I firmly believe it is no coincidence that Pence is staying as far as he can from Trump right now...
posted by darkstar at 12:24 PM on March 5, 2017 [58 favorites]

Oh geat, now we're going to go to war with Canada.

I am Slasher... Tripper... Spearer! I am the snow on the mountain and the aurora in the night! Mine is poutine, and maple-glazed, and an entire two-four to myself every May Two-Four weekend!

I! AM! BEOWULF, EH!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:31 PM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

Such devices have been in use for 70 years and it'd be absurd to think the Oval Office wasn't hardened against such eavesdropping.

except that it's obviously not hardened against someone shooting video through a window

that there could be and have been countermeasures in the past, i don't argue with

but suddenly, we're able to peek through the window of the white house

did someone let their guard down? why?
posted by pyramid termite at 12:32 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

did someone let their guard down? why?

I have never actually found a correlation between owning/managing a company and being competent.
posted by mikelieman at 12:35 PM on March 5, 2017 [20 favorites]

except that it's obviously not hardened against someone shooting video through a window

Close the curtains.
posted by ryanrs at 12:35 PM on March 5, 2017 [10 favorites]

I mean...I think normally the people in the Oval Office meetings are professional and balanced enough not to get into screaming matches? Like last year you could have gotten some video of whoeverthefuck just standing there, looking sober and serious, saying a few things and then leaving to go carry out whatever decision was made.

There's no show unless there's clowns.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:36 PM on March 5, 2017 [65 favorites]

From the above article,

Not only does a president not order wiretapping, but national Republican political strategist and media consultant Rick Wilson reminded President Trump this morning that the wiretapping was hardly a secret, the FBI was granted a FISA warrant in October covering Trump’s ties to Russia . . .

Also that story that was supposedly killed about a private Trump server being connected to a Russian bank wasn’t actually killed at all, “Contrary to earlier reporting in the New York Times, which cited FBI sources as saying that the agency did not believe that the private server in Donald Trump’s Trump Tower which was connected to a Russian bank had any nefarious purpose, the FBI’s counter-intelligence arm, sources say, re-drew an earlier FISA court request around possible financial and banking offenses related to the server.” . . .

Wilson is saying that Trump is projecting his guilt. Intelligence expert Malcolm Nance said on MSNBC’s Joy Reid this is the kind of behavior you see when a target starts getting “buggy.”

Meanwhile, many in the intelligence community are saying new info will be dropped that will be “the least convenient facts in American political history.” (emphasis mine)

Woah woah woah - the Alfa Bank server was IN Trump Tower?? Okay that's double secret shady now.
posted by petebest at 12:38 PM on March 5, 2017 [41 favorites]

it's old news

Julian Sanchez offers the caveat that much of the FISA reporting has come through UK-based or UK-related sources, including ones like Mensch who have gone off on wild flights of fancy. The big US papers' natsec reporters (with significant source relationships) haven't gone to print with that aspect of the story, and Glenn Kessler says his colleagues at the WaPo haven't been able to nail it down. This may be because the British press is working from its own domestic sources, or it may be because the facts are a wee bit murkier than the reporting has implied in terms of how the various parts of the intelligence community interact. Foreign outlets do get used to launder stories from time to time.

did someone let their guard down? why?

The gold curtains don't look as "good" closed?
posted by holgate at 12:39 PM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

Close the curtains.

Can you imaging the screaming match about who has to do that?
posted by Artw at 12:39 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

All I want is for DJT to die in prison. Is that too much to ask?
posted by schadenfrau at 12:39 PM on March 5, 2017 [65 favorites]

did someone let their guard down? why?

The gold curtains don't look as "good" closed?

...that's so stupid, it has to be true.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:41 PM on March 5, 2017 [31 favorites]

Maybe to Trumpers that clandestine footage looks good, or re-emphasizes the idea that liberal enemies are illegitimately surveilling the Trump campaign and now the Trump administration.
posted by Coventry at 12:42 PM on March 5, 2017

Look, you can't stop those idiots point fingers at each other in front of open windows, or discussing classified information in the middle of dinner at Mar-a-Lago, or using insecure personal cell phones, or sending out their passwords in a tweet. The professional civil servants trying to keep stuff secure can only do so much. At some point it's got to be the idiots' fault they were recorded being idiots.
posted by ryanrs at 12:43 PM on March 5, 2017 [19 favorites]

Woah woah woah - the Alfa Bank server was IN Trump Tower?? Okay that's double secret shady now.

I'm pretty sure that's just "politicususa" being sloppy with words rather than new information. I still remain incredibly skeptical about this server business and question why people who clearly made no effort to cover their tracks in their meetings with Russian officials felt the need to also use some kind of secret server to communicate.
posted by zachlipton at 12:43 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Meanwhile, many in the intelligence community are saying new info will be dropped that will be “the least convenient facts in American political history.”

Music to my ears!
posted by futz at 12:44 PM on March 5, 2017 [9 favorites]

I'm reading the Italian news and I'm getting so incredibly frustrated by the fact that they continue to treat Trump as any old American president, rather than as the fantastically inept clown that he is. "The American President said there will be an investigation into the wiretapping by former President Obama". EXCEPT IT'S ALL FUCKING NONSENSE. It's nonsense!

They are not even equipped to report on what's happening because it's so far out of the realm of normal or acceptable or sane politics that the Italian media can't even being to unravel it. They're still operating under the assumption that the White House maintains a shred of credibility about matters of state. It doesn't.
posted by lydhre at 12:44 PM on March 5, 2017 [8 favorites]

"look it's rope! lots of rope! tremendous, bigly long rope! let's do something with it!"
posted by pyramid termite at 12:45 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

many in the intelligence community are saying new info will be dropped that will be “the least convenient facts in American political history.”

Music to my ears!

Yeah but that's what they said about the fabled oppo droppo. I'll believe it when I see it. (And half of America won't.)
posted by saturday_morning at 12:46 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

All I want is for DJT to die in prison. Is that too much to ask?

Putin might put him in a Siberian prison for fucking up his master plan.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:46 PM on March 5, 2017

many in the intelligence community are saying new info will be dropped that will be “the least convenient facts in American political history.”

Whatever does/does not come out, let's not forget that James Comey has known about it since before the election, and said nothing. While instead made inflamed insinuations about Clinton's emails.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:48 PM on March 5, 2017 [40 favorites]

Putin might put him in a Siberian prison for fucking up his master plan.

There's always the Ecuadorian embassy.
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:48 PM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

The big US papers' natsec reporters (with significant source relationships) haven't gone to print with that aspect of the story, and Glenn Kessler says his colleagues at the WaPo haven't been able to nail it down.

So maybe it's the British who bugged Trump Tower and the US ( = Obama = Dems) got info from it via Five Eyes, as many have warned about in the past as a kind of backdoor surveillance.
posted by rhizome at 12:49 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

You'd think the Italian press would be ahead of the game on this.
posted by Artw at 12:51 PM on March 5, 2017 [17 favorites]

I think an Odd Couple-type show featuring Trump and Assange holed up in the Ecuadorian embassy together is precisely the kind of entertainment America needs right now.
posted by zachlipton at 12:51 PM on March 5, 2017 [26 favorites]

Tingle seems like kind of a one-trick pony as a writer, though. Also he can't write realistic dialogue for sphincters.
posted by thelonius at 12:52 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

Putin might put him in a Siberian prison for fucking up his master plan.

Nah. What's happening right now is the master plan. If anything fucked it up, it was Dolt 45 actually getting elected.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:55 PM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

Julian Sanchez offers the caveat that much of the FISA reporting has come through UK-based or UK-related sources, including ones like Mensch who have gone off on wild flights of fancy.

Given Fiveyes, I basically assume that there is a direct cable across the Atlantic between the Trump Tower telecoms system and GCHQ.
posted by generichuman at 12:55 PM on March 5, 2017

Putin might put him in a Siberian prison for fucking up his master plan.

Nah. What's happening right now is the master plan. If anything fucked it up, it was Dolt 45 actually getting elected.

Yeah, anything at this point is win-win for Russia. Trump triumphs --> NATO powerless, world looks the other way as Putin conquers the Baltics. Trump collapses --> USA loses stability, cachet, sanity.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:57 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Putin might put him in a Siberian prison for fucking up his master plan.

As the pressure gets even greater, Trump announces a surprise state visit to Russia. Shortly after landing in Moscow, Trump requests asylum for himself and his family. He's placed in Putin's own retirement palace by the Black Sea. He is never heard from again. A year later, his death is quietly announced. "As per Trump's request, the body was cremated. There will be no investigation."
posted by honestcoyote at 12:57 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Thing is, war is how we tend to work these fundamental divisions out.
posted by KHAAAN! at 1:03 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

Over on the Root: 3 Reasons Trump’ll Be President for 8 Years Unless White Liberals Grow a Spine (or Maxine Waters Takes Over)
posted by StrawberryPie at 1:05 PM on March 5, 2017 [11 favorites]

The gold curtains don't look as "good" closed?

Do you mean "classy"?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:08 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

going back a ways:
In his cameo in The Little Rascals, Trump plays the father of the stuck-up bully rich kid. Watching him is like watching OJ in The Naked Gun movies.
If not for that unpleasantness with his ex-wife, OJ would've been an odds-on favorite to become America's First Black President... as a Republican, of course.

Long before he began his Road to the White House, my opinion of Donald has been that he belonged as a cell-mate to Bernie Madoff (from whom he could actually learn some practical lessons). Of course the reasons he wasn't was (1) most of his victims were of much lower social status then he was (2) the media was protecting him, for a source of entertainment AND real estate advertising and (3) he's not Jewish.

Of course he's a "despot". Aren't all successful and successful-appearing businessmen?
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:10 PM on March 5, 2017

Of course he's a "despot". Aren't all successful and successful-appearing businessmen?

Not all, and generally not the most successful of them, but it's an under-appreciated fact that most businesses are organized more or less like feudal monarchies. Most people spend a lot more time living in that world than they do interacting with anything resembling free markets or democracy.
posted by dirge at 1:20 PM on March 5, 2017 [15 favorites]

Metafilter: realistic dialogue for sphincters
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:28 PM on March 5, 2017 [9 favorites]

World War Meme How a group of anonymous keyboard commandos conquered the internet for Donald Trump—and plans to deliver Europe to the far right.
posted by futz at 1:32 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

Comey Asks Justice Dept. to Reject Trump’s Wiretapping Claim
The F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, asked the Justice Department this weekend to publicly reject President Trump’s assertion that President Barack Obama ordered the tapping of Mr. Trump’s phones, senior American officials said on Sunday. Mr. Comey has argued that the highly charged claim is false and must be corrected, they said, but the department has not released any such statement.
posted by PenDevil at 1:36 PM on March 5, 2017 [69 favorites]

Guys, the thing about "Meanwhile, many in the intelligence community are saying new info will be dropped that will be “the least convenient facts in American political history.”"?

If you look at the source it's a tweet by someone not privy to any particularly secret information. It's his analysis of where this is heading. He doesn't know anything. I mean, it may turn out to be correct but if it does it's not because he actually has access to sources or info that we don't, it'll just be because a ton of people are tweeting all sorts of shit.
posted by Justinian at 1:37 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

Gosh, I wonder how Comey must feel about having people say things about you and then refusing to promptly set the record straight.
posted by zachlipton at 1:40 PM on March 5, 2017 [56 favorites]

Comey, you chickenshit, if you have something to say, say it yourself.
posted by saturday_morning at 1:42 PM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

Comey Asks Justice Dept. to Reject Trump’s Wiretapping Claim

Next paragraph after your quote...

Mr. Comey made the request on Saturday after Mr. Trump leveled his allegation on Twitter. Mr. Comey has been working to get the Justice Department to knock down Mr. Trump’s claim because there is no evidence to support it and it insinuates that the F.B.I. broke the law, the officials said. (My emphasis)

...brings up an earlier tweet I posted:

@DavidCornDC
Does Trump realize he's suggesting FBI Director Jim Comey illegally conspired against him?

Trump has now angered Comey enough that he's leaking against Trump and Sessions at DoJ. I'm sure turning your one IC ally against you is wonderful strategy. 11th dimensional chess and all.
posted by chris24 at 1:44 PM on March 5, 2017 [46 favorites]

Rev. William Barber II: Selma’s ‘Bloody Sunday’ Exposes Lie of Voter Fraud

AM Joy: Will son of Selma, Jeff Sessions, protect voting rights? Today marks the 52nd anniversary of Bloody Sunday, and the Selma march for voting rights. MSNBC’s Trymaine Lee and Sherrilyn Ifill of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund join Joy on the future of civil and voting rights under Trump’s attorney general.
posted by homunculus at 1:44 PM on March 5, 2017 [9 favorites]

Meanwhile, while everyone freaks out over "tapps," Leashes Come Off Wall Street, Gun Sellers, Miners and More. Over 90 regulations have been delayed, suspended, or reversed since Trump took office, with more to come, usually at the request of industry lobbyists, as part of Bannon's "deconstruction of the administrative state."
posted by zachlipton at 1:44 PM on March 5, 2017 [32 favorites]

Dana Boente, where you at, man? Are you picking up Comey's phone calls?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:46 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

These images of purported abuse of Trump demonstrators by anti-Trump protestors keep showing up in my twitter feed. Does anyone have more context about them?
posted by Coventry at 1:47 PM on March 5, 2017

I haven't read any Tingles (I'm afraid to), but I wasn't expecting that to sound so...coherent and big-word-using.

Chuck's handsome son (name of Jon) does a lot of editing for him. This is a good way.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:50 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Russia has had weak regulations for a long time, and it's hardly a powerhouse of industry. These lobbyists fighting for relaxation of government controls are marching into the classic tragedy of the commons: a race to the bottom where they'll be free to cheat and pollute as much as they want, but their workforce will be sick, their contracts will be unenforceable, and they'll be at constant risk of a bigger fish taking their company away.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:52 PM on March 5, 2017 [16 favorites]

Does anyone have more context about them?

Pro-Trump rally in Berkeley turns violent as protesters clash with the president’s supporters
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:53 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

These images of purported abuse of Trump demonstrators by anti-Trump protestors keep showing up in my twitter feed. Does anyone have more context about them?

The San Francisco Chronicle has a story on what happened in Berkeley: Violence erupts at pro-Trump rally in Berkeley

It's pretty shitty.
posted by zachlipton at 1:54 PM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

These images of purported abuse of Trump demonstrators by anti-Trump protestors keep showing up in my twitter feed. Does anyone have more context about them?

I'm not sure about the second one but the first?

David‏ @TheZOMB
@TheZOMB in the video you can see Jim Templeton get maced by backspray from a trump supporters spray can. #Berkeley pic.twitter.com/rPTZHNFUt8

So when the elderly gentleman was "pepper sprayed" by "liberal terrorists" it was actually friendly fire of a Trump supporter. It doesn't matter though. Nobody will let facts get in the way of a good narrative.
posted by Talez at 1:54 PM on March 5, 2017 [48 favorites]

Tingle seems like kind of a one-trick pony as a writer, though. Also he can't write realistic dialogue for sphincters.

I'd say the dialogue he writes for sphincters is just as realistic as what he writes for all his other characters.
posted by Uncle Ira at 1:54 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

Not that it wasn't obvious, but now leaks have confirmed.

@jaketapper
WH officials with whom I spoke said POTUS got the info about wiretap from media - Breitbart, Levin - not from govt sources.
posted by chris24 at 1:58 PM on March 5, 2017 [46 favorites]

“This is a sad day,” Berkeley Councilman Ben Bartlett told reporters. “We’re better than this.”

Judging by every single story I read about protests in Berkeley this appears to be counterfactual.
posted by Justinian at 2:00 PM on March 5, 2017 [8 favorites]

Comey Asks Justice Dept. to Reject Trump’s Wiretapping Claim

This behavior is so far past acceptable, holy shit. You do not comment on ongoing investigations. You ESPECIALLY do not comment on ongoing investigations for reputational reasons or to gain political advantage. You SUPER ESPECIALLY do not EVER comment on ongoing investigations related to national security. Goddamn it Bill Clinton, why did you have to go up to AG Lynch at that airport?
posted by sallybrown at 2:00 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

This behavior is so far past acceptable, holy shit. You do not comment on ongoing investigations.

He crossed this Rubicon last fall. So now that we know he has no morals, pushing back against Trump is something I guess I'll pretty gladly take at this time.
posted by chris24 at 2:02 PM on March 5, 2017 [8 favorites]

I watched the videos of the pro/anti Trump protests and (a) they're really small – there are more people with cameras than participants in most shots; and (b) none of these guys know how to fight. Which is good, apparently we're still a ways from paramilitary pro–government groups.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:04 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

"Ongoing investigation" my arse.
posted by Artw at 2:05 PM on March 5, 2017

I don't really see evidence of friendly fire or otherwise in that Berkeley video.
posted by gnuhavenpier at 2:06 PM on March 5, 2017

Comey isn't content to destroy bureaucratic norms himself by inserting himself into the election - he's now attempting to push the Department of Justice to join him in this terrible behavior. The DOJ that warned him NOT to send the Clinton letter. (And the DOJ was right!!!) And when the DOJ (correctly) does not accede to his current demand, he leaks it to the NYT. This guy is a hubristic shithead.
posted by sallybrown at 2:07 PM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

Patrons Walk Out As Ala. Official Pushes Voter ID At Selma Anniversary Service

-- After Alabama’s Secretary of State John Merrill promoted the state's voter ID law at a church service held Sunday to commemorate the anniversary of a civil rights milestone in Selma, patrons walked out.

-- Before the 2016 election, he went on to blast automatic voter registration, saying that it would "cheapen" the work of civil rights leaders.

"If you’re too sorry or lazy to get up off of your rear and to go register to vote, or to register electronically, and then to go vote, then you don’t deserve that privilege," Merrill said.
posted by futz at 2:08 PM on March 5, 2017 [39 favorites]

@jaketapper
WH officials with whom I spoke said POTUS got the info about wiretap from media - Breitbart, Levin - not from govt sources.

@ddale8 Retweeted Jake Tapper
Imagine being able to get the world's most secret info and instead being like "it's cool I'll just read Breitbart."
posted by chris24 at 2:09 PM on March 5, 2017 [100 favorites]

WH officials with whom I spoke said POTUS got the info about wiretap from media - Breitbart, Levin - not from govt sources.

Ok guys, what genre are we in? This is darker than Dr Strangelove, and yet we get these images of trapped WH officials leaking everything in a desperate bid to...what? Escape?

I'll look for someone opening and closing the gold curtains in some kind of demented semaphore next. Jesus.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:09 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

So...

My last comment, suggesting that the wiretap was old news, is probably premature. While it is possible that a wiretap exists, both Clapper and Comey are clamping down hard on that idea.

Perhaps (1) it exists and Comey/Clapper are telling the truth, and it was not ordered by Obama but by someone else (Five Eyes?) or perhaps (2) there is no evidence (yet) for such a wiretap existing, and the article I linked to is simply erroneous.

Looks like we still have to wait to see if it materializes, and if it does, who might have initiated it.

Sally is right, though: Comey is awfully flexible in how he interprets the "no comment on a pending investigation" though.
posted by darkstar at 2:11 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

WH officials with whom I spoke said POTUS got the info about wiretap from media - Breitbart, Levin - not from govt sources.

So he's got the entire federal gov't at his disposal and he still thinks that talk radio hosts have better intel than he does?

This is fine.
posted by dis_integration at 2:12 PM on March 5, 2017 [17 favorites]

Comey isn't content to destroy bureaucratic norms himself by inserting himself into the election - he's now attempting to push the Department of Justice to join him in this terrible behavior.

I despise Comey, but I'm struggling to understand the outrage here. He's not interfering in an election. He's pushing back against a President abusing the power of his office to falsely accuse a former president and malign the Justice Department. If there is no FISA warrant as he and many Obama folks say, then he's not even commenting on an active investigation.

Honestly, his speaking out is one small step in avoiding half the country taking this as gospel.
posted by chris24 at 2:14 PM on March 5, 2017 [35 favorites]

So he's got the entire federal gov't at his disposal and he still thinks that talk radio hosts have better intel than he does?

It takes effort to read the daily intelligence briefing, it's a lot easier to just listen to some right wing hack on the radio while his weave gets fixed.
posted by PenDevil at 2:15 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

I don't really see evidence of friendly fire or otherwise in that Berkeley video.

The elderly man is behind and to the side of the Trump supporter spraying pepper spray and there's always backspray.
posted by Talez at 2:17 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump lives in bizarro reverse world from Richard Nixon.

Nixon tried to apply pressure from the top on his attorney general to get the FBI to stop an actual investigation in progress of his misdeeds. He had to fire two attorney generals who stood up to him before he could find a compliant Robert Bork to do his bidding.

In Trump world we have the exact opposite. The FBI director is pushing up from the bottom back at the attorney general to dispute an investigation that is not occurring, and he can't find anyone in the attorney general's office to stand up to the President who claims an imaginary investigation.

Somebody find the red kryptonite, quick.
posted by JackFlash at 2:19 PM on March 5, 2017 [15 favorites]

This series of tweets from Jay Cost of the Weekly Standard is worth considering (I've condensed them into a paragraph):

It's been pretty clear for months that the government has been spying on the Trump orbit, right? And it's also been pretty clear that the timing of the leaks of these intelligence-gathering efforts have been politically motivated, right? It's not a coincidence that some big stories came right before the inaugural and right after his pseudo-SOTU, right? I mean go back and read the stuff from January. The NSA is explicitly mentioned as part of a counterintelligence operation. The problem with Trump's tweets is that he fingered Obama as "tapping" Trump...But that's not been established. What we have established is that multiple parts of the Obama admin were gathering intel on Trump associates. That's not even an inference. That's just been outright established in these reports. The inference--and I think it's a reasonable one--is that the DISPERSION of this information has been political in nature. Trump claimed the COLLECTION of info was political in nature. That has not been established at all. But I am extremely bothered by the dispersion of this info for what seems to me to be political purposes. And that bothers me as much as any intemperate tweet by a bad POTUS. Bad POTUSes can be voted out of office. Unelected bureaucrats leaking partial info to unelected journos b/c they all dislike like the elected POTUS? ... I don't like that. I agree with this. [retweeting: "Yes, that is dangerous. And same basic thing that Comey did to Clinton by editorializing her actions as FBI director"] And I think it points to a big reason why the bureaucracy keeps getting away with this crap. Leaks such as these typically favor one party over the other. So there is always one side cheering them on. So there is never a durable coalition to step forward and say, "Hey, bureaucrats! Quit BREAKING THE LAW to interfere in politics!" And of course journalists, who typically claim the mantle of good governance, don't mind this, either. It helps them. So there is really no institutional counterweight. And since 9/11 the intelligence community has gotten really aggressive in dabbling in the political realm. If they have "solid links of collusion," then they should pursue criminal prosecution. I'm not defending Trumpian bombast here. I've seen no indication that intel collection was politically motivated. What I'm saying is that intel dispersion has seemed awfully convenient in its timing. THAT stinks of politics. And BTW that does not finger Obama at all! It could just be bureaucrats in the intel services who hate Trump and wanna get him. Personally, I don't buy the idea that an admin too incompetent to build a website could secretly take down the next POTUS. That just seems silly to me. And BTW to me it is a lot more discomfiting to think this is career bureaucrats acting on their own volition. What's the remedy for that? It's like Dems blaming Comey. Comforting to inger ONE GUY WHOM WE KNOW. But c'mon. it was a bunch of papercuts from pissed off FBI agents who shall always and forevermore remain anonymous. It reminds me of my reaction to this frickin' guy turning out to be Deep Throat. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Felt] Considering the power that guy wielded over the course of politics for a WHOLE DECADE, we all hoped it be like Kissinger or somebody. Anyway, these days I pretty much just find myself pissed off at all the major players in the political realm. .

posted by sallybrown at 2:20 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

Roger Stone didn't have a meltdown, he was in the #STONEZONE.
posted by waitingtoderail at 2:20 PM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

A dimension comprised primarily of cocaine.
posted by Artw at 2:25 PM on March 5, 2017 [24 favorites]

Jay Cost and the Weekly Standard are right-wing conservative and, imo, that's mostly a much more intelligent and plausibly fig-leafed version of "both sides are the same!".
posted by Justinian at 2:28 PM on March 5, 2017 [13 favorites]

From Just Security, "Real Questions include FBI Inaction and Action on Russia: Only Independent Investigations Can Resolve": "There is now an urgent need for independent investigations—including a special prosecutor and the Justice Department’s Inspector General—to look into the underlying evidence that the FBI had of Russian connections to Americans prior to the election. And, as we lay out in great detail here, the FBI may be accused of failing to sufficiently pursue an investigation of these connections prior to the election. A failure on that level would have put the country at great risk, and political leaders now have reason to support full-blown and independent investigations."
posted by MonkeyToes at 2:30 PM on March 5, 2017 [9 favorites]

Keep in mind too that Trump and his minions have been saying since the campaign that they're going to "purge" (a word Chris Christie actually used) the bureaucracy, "drain the swamp," dismantle the "administrative state," etc. Federal workers are already derided as lazy drones taking government money. The messier this gets and the more that agencies get drawn into it and appear to play a partisan role in this saga, the more ammunition Bannon et al will have for eroding civil service protections that insulate career civil servants from partisan influence and keep agencies making substantive policy-based decisions rather than political ones. If the DOJ accedes to Comey's demand and takes a public stance opposed to the President now - for reasons that are not related to the substance of an investigation! - the easier it will be to sell the lie that the DOJ is dirty and needs to be cleaned out. And yes, they are going to try and sell this argument regardless - but there are already vanishingly few people who will stand up for bureaucrats. Any playing into Trump's hands on this will be disastrous for the regulatory state and thus the functioning of our country.
posted by sallybrown at 2:31 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

Ok, no. All I want is a Special Prosecutor.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:31 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

Unless it takes him down, sallybrown. I don't know how else to get out of this except to hope the apparatus of the state itself -- the bureaucrats, the IC, all of them -- takes up the fight. We don't have any of the branches of actual government left, because they fucking cheated all the way through. The bureaucrats and the media are all we have left, so, you know. Go to war with the army you have left.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:35 PM on March 5, 2017 [12 favorites]

for those who got this far and need a reason for a kind of hollow laugh at all this (I feel bad for the deterioration into mob mentality and how that fuels the Bannon-fascist monster, but all we can do is keep standing up for democracy as a process and this will eventually pass).
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 2:38 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

Personally I see the leaks as less about elements of the IC playing politics and more about them throwing their hands up in despair and trying to force Congress to actually move forward and do things by the book instead of pretending it all goes away if they just don't look at it. The intelligence services are not the only parts of the government that have to work around the administration in unorthodox ways, just look at all the unprecedented steps government researchers have had to take to preserve and disseminate data.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:39 PM on March 5, 2017 [16 favorites]

A Colorado judge just granted 62,000 former immigrant detainees the right to sue GEO Group over forced labor, enrichment

Just days after Attorney General Jeff Sessions rescinded an Obama administration order barring the use of private prisons, U.S. District Court of Colorado Judge John Kane granted class certification to a lawsuit that will affect about 62,000 immigrants detained at GEO Group’s private prison in Aurora, CO, over the past decade. That prison is contracted by the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, and plaintiffs say they were forced into labor or threatened with solitary confinement, among other allegations reported by ABC’s Channel 7 in Denver
posted by futz at 2:40 PM on March 5, 2017 [56 favorites]

Team Obama having some fun on Twitter with Trump and Republicans.

@brhodes
@jonfavs @danpfeiffer remember that time Valerie and I took the space shuttle to the moon to get the forged birth certificate?

@jonfavs
@brhodes @danpfeiffer do you even know how many Mass voters I drove to NH on Election Day?

@danpfeiffer
@jonfavs @brhodes don't tell anyone but I worked with Ted Cruz's dad to kill JFK

@brhodes
@danpfeiffer @jonfavs my last act on the job was using massive amounts of Iranian invisible ink to make Trump inauguration crowds disappear
posted by chris24 at 2:44 PM on March 5, 2017 [65 favorites]

In general, all subpoenas have to be voted on by the committee. Republicans hold a majority on all committees. Effectively, Democrats have no subpoena power at all.

However, an investigation of Obama administration staff means that they can answer - under oath and fully documented -- the reasons why they were investigating Trump and his campaign. It provides tremendous scope for them to reveal dirt on various Trump staffers -- either directly or by hinting -- without violating secrecy rules. Hey, there were ordered to answer the questions under subpoena power.

You don't even need Democrats to ask leading questions, they can ramble or justify or just blurt out whatever. With any luck, on live TV.

Also, this ability gives Republicans involved the opportunity to create room for this to happen with perfect deniability. "We did exactly what you asked, sir -- investigated the Obama wiretapping."
posted by msalt at 2:47 PM on March 5, 2017 [16 favorites]

From the SFC article above,
Kat Mclain, 25, of San Francisco was walking the perimeter of the protest at around 4:30 p.m. She said she came to the event because she wanted to talk with the pro-Trump demonstrators but was disappointed as the afternoon devolved into violence.

“I wanted to hear about why people are supporting him,” she said. “I thought it would be fun and interesting. It’s sad what it became.”

*removes glasses, massages eyebrows*

Are you kids on dope?!
posted by petebest at 2:48 PM on March 5, 2017 [8 favorites]

Robert Costa: "A phrase I keep hearing from Trump ally after Trump ally: "deep state." Growing belief inside WH that elements of I.C. aligned against them."

Maggie Haberman: "Trump was frustrated by the Sunday shows today/felt people didn't defend him strongly enough on his Obama claim, per ppl close to him."

Trump should listen to Jeet Heer: ""Never get high on your own supply" -- well known drug dealer rule."
posted by sallybrown at 2:48 PM on March 5, 2017 [15 favorites]

That last picture in thebotantofsouls' link speaks volumes, with the "THANKS RUSSIA" sign on a little Russian flag. I'm saving it in case I may confront any Trumpeters who deny the Russian Connection.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:49 PM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

The phrase of the day is "deep state." Coming from within the Trump orbit and Alex Jones.

Meanwhile, Trump is reportedly upset that his surrogates didn't defend his claims enough on the Sunday shows, so who's going to be left now that the second-tier junior staffers are disfavored too, and no Members of Congress will speak for him?
posted by zachlipton at 2:50 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

I know this is obvious and almost certainly has been mentioned before, but the big problem with basing your choices on lies instead of facts had a way of coming back and biting you in the ass eventually. Not even because people discovery you're a last but because reality has a tenancy to assert itself in inconvenient ways and at lousy times. Your best case scenario for basing your administration on lies is that you die before the lies come to light. More typically, ignoring facts leads to stuff like the anti-Vax movement or losing Florida to flooding or 9/11.

Basing choices on reality doesn't mean nothing is ever going to go wrong but it does mean that you have a better chance of weathering predictable disasters. Trump is setting is all up for tons of bad shit and just doesn't care.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:51 PM on March 5, 2017 [9 favorites]

I mean, thinking it through, the only way to contain this kind of damage is to have him declared insane. And then maybe we get the middle back, and we only have to deal with a cold lukewarm whatever insurgency from the 27%
posted by schadenfrau at 2:59 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

I could take the time and effort to type out a more nuanced position but frankly seeing that photo of the trump supporter dude with a bloody nose felt good. A punch in the nose for supporting a regime that is actively trying to kill the most vulnerable in this country feels like it isn't too goddamn much. Or maybe I'm just frayed.
posted by lazaruslong at 3:00 PM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

Are you kids on dope?!

What was stupid about the McLain quote? Sounded brave and curious to me.
posted by Coventry at 3:03 PM on March 5, 2017

Delightfully, the booths from other Austin districts have set up great big printouts of their own reps' faces or even bodies and are having folks from their districts pepper then with questions on post its. It's like an extremely angry version of pin the tail on the donkey.

Did they have one for Bill Flores? He's got a face that needs something stuck to it.
posted by threeturtles at 3:07 PM on March 5, 2017

The phrase of the day is "deep state." Coming from within the Trump orbit and Alex Jones.

The fascinating part of this is that it just highlights the radicalism of the Republican party. The deep state is fundamentally conservative and it's goal since forever has been to defend the status quo. That used to also be a Republican goal but it no longer is. This is all deeply weird.
posted by srboisvert at 3:18 PM on March 5, 2017 [40 favorites]

Protip: if you are doped up all the time everyone will just think that is your normal personality!
posted by Meatbomb at 3:19 PM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

North Korea fires an "unidentified projectile" into sea: Seoul (@AFP)

So that's nice.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:26 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Whatever, guys, we are BUSY.
posted by Artw at 3:26 PM on March 5, 2017 [17 favorites]

Trump's approval, even after his "great speech"* flatlined at 43%. And his disapproval is still 50%. So still the worst in history.

* and before this weekend's meltdown.
posted by chris24 at 3:28 PM on March 5, 2017 [17 favorites]

Correction: he's the best at being the worst in history.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:30 PM on March 5, 2017 [11 favorites]

Correction: he's the best at being the worst in history.

" Did you see the size of my disapproval rating, YUGE- much bigger than Obama's !No one fails at being a respectable president better than me, no one!"
posted by Liquidwolf at 3:38 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Dispatch from a Wisconsin Town Hall with an Old School Republican, Where the constituents love their Obamacare.
posted by homunculus at 3:44 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

However, an investigation of Obama administration staff means that they can answer - under oath and fully documented -- the reasons why they were investigating Trump and his campaign. It provides tremendous scope for them to reveal dirt on various Trump staffers -- either directly or by hinting -- without violating secrecy rules. Hey, there were ordered to answer the questions under subpoena power. You don't even need Democrats to ask leading questions, they can ramble or justify or just blurt out whatever. With any luck, on live TV.

That's not the way it works. The committee chair, a Republican, gets to decide what testimony is public and what occurs behind closed doors regarding security issues. They can stop you in mid-sentence if they think a witness is about to say something "embarrassing" or secret. The committee chair also controls what information is released from non-public hearings.

All you have to do is look at the Senate and House Benghazi hearings to see how it works. Closed door testimony followed by selective, prejudicial releases. Their one mistake was having the Clinton testimony in public, thinking they could showboat. They won't make that mistake twice.
posted by JackFlash at 3:44 PM on March 5, 2017 [20 favorites]

>Meanwhile, Trump is reportedly upset that his surrogates didn't defend his claims enough on the Sunday shows, so who's going to be left now that the second-tier junior staffers are disfavored too, and no Members of Congress will speak for him?

Maybe this will give us another early week solo press conference? You know, to set the record straight about all the fake news and Obama and whatnot.
posted by Catblack at 3:45 PM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

That would delay Muslim Ban II, wouldn't it?
posted by Artw at 3:46 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

He's setting us up for a hot civil war.

I hadn't felt that till this weekend. I'm not so sure now. If it's framed as "if you're not with us, you're enemies of the state" then it takes to the darkest timeline fast, no matter how it rolls out.
posted by holgate at 3:51 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

That would delay Muslim Ban II, wouldn't it?

Probably not. It's not delaying other stuff...

"Lots talk re White House "chaos." But something VERY big happening: Deconstruction of regulatory state."

Leashes Come Off Wall Street, Gun Sellers, Miners and More:

Telecommunications giants like Verizon and AT&T will not have to take “reasonable measures” to ensure that their customers’ Social Security numbers, web browsing history and other personal information are not stolen or accidentally released.

Wall Street banks like Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan Chase will not be punished, at least for now, for not collecting extra money from customers to cover potential losses from certain kinds of high-risk trades that helped unleash the 2008 financial crisis.

And Social Security Administration data will no longer be used to try to block individuals with disabling mental health issues from buying handguns, nor will hunters be banned from using lead-based bullets, which can accidentally poison wildlife, on 150 million acres of federal lands.

These are just a few of the more than 90 regulations that federal agencies and the Republican-controlled Congress have delayed, suspended or reversed in the month and a half since President Trump took office, according to a tally by The New York Times.

The emerging effort — dozens of additional rules could be eliminated in the coming weeks — represents one of the most significant shifts in regulatory policy in recent decades. It is the leading edge of what Stephen K. Bannon, Mr. Trump’s chief strategist, described late last month as “the deconstruction of the administrative state.”
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:54 PM on March 5, 2017 [9 favorites]

@costareports
A phrase I keep hearing from Trump ally after Trump ally: "deep state." Growing belief inside WH that elements of I.C. aligned against them.

@dandrezner Retweeted Robert Costa
A phrase I keep hearing from NatSec wonk after NatSec wonk: Trump's staff needs to grow the f**k up. Growing belief that they're crybabies.
posted by chris24 at 3:54 PM on March 5, 2017 [21 favorites]

The Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee sent a letter to McGahn expressing concern at reports he was seeking info about the FISA warrant and from the FBI. It's a good explanation re the question someone raised above about why it's considered improper for the WH Counsel to stick a finger in an FBI/DOJ investigation.
posted by sallybrown at 4:00 PM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

CT Senator Richard Blumenthal: I'll use every possible tool to block DOJ Deputy AG nominee unless he commits to appoint independent special prosecutor
posted by chris24 at 4:03 PM on March 5, 2017 [52 favorites]

I mean, I appreciate the sentiment, but if he couldn't block Sessions what makes him think he can block the deputy?
posted by corb at 4:05 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

Yeah, I am wondering a little bit what tools he thinks he has at his disposal and why the fuck he hasn't been using them already if there are any.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:07 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Oh god what if the IC released everything they had on 45, the campaign, the administration? Like just went scorched earth?

Do the Germans have a word for terrifying schadenfreude, in particular?
posted by schadenfrau at 4:09 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

Do the Germans have a word for terrifying schadenfreude, in particular?
posted by schadenfrau at 7:09 PM

eponyschterical
posted by saturday_morning at 4:12 PM on March 5, 2017 [27 favorites]

I know that you can never know these things for sure but something has to give.

Wall St. is misreading Trump, and a market bloodbath is imminent: Stockman

Of course this is an article about one persons assessment but the markets seem to be doing awfully well given all the instability.
posted by futz at 4:16 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

Patience Gone, Koch-Backed Groups Will Pressure G.O.P. on Health Repeal:

Saying their patience is at an end, conservative activist groups backed by the billionaire Koch brothers and other powerful interests on the right are mobilizing to pressure Republicans to fulfill their promise to swiftly repeal the Affordable Care Act.

Their message is blunt and unforgiving, with the goal of reawakening some of the most extensive conservative grass-roots networks in the country. It is a reminder that even as Republicans control both the White House and Congress for the first time in a decade, the party’s activist wing remains restless and will not go along passively for the sake of party unity.

RENDER UNTO KOCH WHAT IS KOCH'S. NO HEALTH COVERAGE FOR YOU EVEN IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT BECAUSE YOU ARE ALREADY SICK AND WEAK.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:16 PM on March 5, 2017 [11 favorites]

Of course this is an article about one persons assessment but the markets seem to be doing awfully well given all the instability.

I'm getting very tempted to go long on volatility measures.
posted by diogenes at 4:19 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

These Koch groups think that they can pack town halls with tons of angry folks who will scream and demand that their lawmakers repeal ACA/Obamacare. Hmmm, I don't think that they have been paying attention. Of course they could always pay people to show up ;)
posted by futz at 4:23 PM on March 5, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'd be tempted to try to game that system except that if I'd poured money into a sure sucker bet a few months ago, I'd have lost every cent I had on Intrade or its equivalent.
posted by delfin at 4:24 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

Veteran Fighting Deportation After 2 Tours in Afghanistan - a vet with PTSD who was convicted of a non-violent drug offense. I will never get over the people who voted for Trump...every hour brings a new thing to be so ashamed of.
posted by sallybrown at 4:25 PM on March 5, 2017 [57 favorites]

Look at the 1 year for this chart. A 52 week low on bets for future volatility? How does that makes sense?
posted by diogenes at 4:26 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

so who's going to be left now that the second-tier junior staffers are disfavored too, and no Members of Congress will speak for him?

It's gonna get a little RUDE before it gets better. Rudy's just another word for, nothin' left to lose.
posted by petebest at 4:27 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

These Koch groups think that they can pack town halls with tons of angry folks who will scream and demand that their lawmakers repeal ACA/Obamacare. Hmmm, I don'y think that they have been paying attention.

I mean, they're not entirely wrong. Those conservative grassroots networks do exist, and many of them still want the repeal of Obamacare. In an ordinary year, under an ordinary president, I think that it would be trivially easy to secure people to show up and make loud, impassioned statements against the ACA.

But what they are forgetting is this is no normal year, and even many conservative activists who were coaxed or pushed or persuaded into voting for Trump don't actually have enthusiasm for him or any part of his agenda. Even conservative evangelicals who are not actually "NeverTrump" still don't have a lot of excitement for what is turning out to be the presidency of Mammon.
posted by corb at 4:27 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

mandolin conspiracy: Saying their patience is at an end, conservative activist groups backed by the billionaire Koch brothers and other powerful interests on the right are mobilizing to pressure Republicans to fulfill their promise to swiftly repeal the Affordable Care Act.

As long as I live I'll never understand billionaires that don't want poor people to have basic necessities like health care. What more do you want that you can't buy with your billions of dollars?
posted by bluecore at 4:28 PM on March 5, 2017 [42 favorites]

Esquire: Roger Stone Forgot Other People Can Read His Tweets

Summary of his tweets Saturday night (3/4), in which he has a meltdown, while ranting against specific people.
posted by ZeusHumms at 4:28 PM on March 5, 2017 [8 favorites]

I'm getting very tempted to go long on volatility measures.

That may be like holding a marshmallow over a pool of gasoline because you think there might be a campfire.
posted by Riki tiki at 4:30 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

A 52 week low on bets for future volatility? How does that makes sense?

diogenes, as a self-made financial titan, I of course understand these concerns. I too have wondered about, that thing that you said. Still, for those of us less enknowledgemated about the fiduciarital arts would you mind elaborating some?
posted by petebest at 4:34 PM on March 5, 2017 [18 favorites]

Esquire: Roger Stone Forgot Other People Can Read His Tweets

That's so over the top that in any normal time I would have just assumed his twitter had been hacked. But I guess this is the new normal.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:34 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

I lost twenty bucks on PredictIt, it's just index funds and dividend aristocrats from here on out.
posted by box at 4:36 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

A former top aide to Reagan, Bush, Kemp:

@BruceBartlett
Take Nixon in the deepest days of his Watergate paranoia, subtract 50 IQ points, add Twitter, and you have Trump today.

Well that escalated quickly. Bruce is back at it. We've seen a few NeverTrumpers call for investigations, tax returns, Congress to do their jobs and restrain Trump, but resignation? Is this the first? Will TBD the Movie come to life?

@BruceBartlett
You'd think some Republican member of Congress would see there is a huge opportunity to be the first to call for Trump's resignation.

He'd be a hero, go down in the history books as a man who put country above party, principle above partisanship etc.

EDIT: His response to someone suggesting Rubio is good:

@emorrissey @JohnKasich @marcorubio Little Marco? Get real. He will wait until the train is leaving the station and then jump on board.
posted by chris24 at 4:39 PM on March 5, 2017 [21 favorites]

Yeah...where is Rudy?
posted by rhizome at 4:46 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

Primary math doesn't let any Republican be the first to the take the risky shift of calling for trump's resignation, and lord knows that no american Republican has a spine.
posted by codacorolla at 4:50 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

Had an interesting conversation this evening with a pal who has a pal in the London US embassy. This is FOAF hearsay, so don't give it too much credence, but it passed the sniff test for me...

One of the things that happens in embassies when there's a change of administration is that all the codes get changed. There are a lot of codes, for access to various physical areas, for access to various electronic resources, for internal comms, etc. There are protocols for this handover, to make sure the people who know the old codes and can change them co-ordinate with the new people who need the new codes, without the new codes being known to the departing crew. There are a lot of different people and agencies involved. It's not inherently difficult but it is quite involved.

This hasn't happened. For whatever reason, the old codes were disabled but the new codes weren't propagated; my pal suggested that it was because various key people were marched out of the building before they could finish the job (such as the departing ambassador, who 'took a whole floor of the Dorchester' out of pique at not being afforded the normal transition leeway, my pal says), but they didn't have chapter and verse. The result, though, is that the embassy is largely crippled and there's no clear way forward. My pal said that their pal thought this would also be true for a lot of other embassies around the world, because of the nature of the mis-step.

I cannot vouch for any of this, except to note that my pal is pretty well connected and does have a track record of knowing their shit. I'm going to make a mental note and see what else comes out about the functioning of US embassies, in the normal run of trying to build up a cohesive picture of how things are going out there.
posted by Devonian at 4:51 PM on March 5, 2017 [72 favorites]

Primary math doesn't let any Republican be the first to the take the risky shift of calling for trump's resignation, and lord knows that no american Republican has a spine.

No heart, no spine...is that a pre-existing condition?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:52 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

Don't let the diehard Trumpettes on Twitter and the comments section fool you, even 52% of Republicans think we should investigate Trump's possible ties to Russia.

Russia investigations a 'witch hunt'? Not according to polls

Multiple surveys show widespread support for new and continued investigations into Trump’s connections with Russia, despite the president’s assertions that the controversy is contrived by the media to obscure the much-reported fact that Trump won last year’s election.

In the NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll, majorities think the Congress should investigate both whether or not there was contact between Russian officials and individuals in Trump’s campaign (53 percent) and whether the Russian government interfered with the election (54 percent).

The Quinnipiac poll omitted any reference of Congress and asked voters if they “support or oppose investigations into the potential links” between Trump advisers and the Russian government. Those probes earned even more backing: 72 percent of voters support those investigations, and only 23 percent oppose them. Even 52 percent of Republicans support investigations into the Trump campaign’s contact with Russian officials.

posted by chris24 at 4:52 PM on March 5, 2017 [29 favorites]

Maggie Haberman explains that the White House tried to spin reporters away from the "Rumble in the Oval Office" story on Friday, in part to avoid the issue of Priebus being booted from the FL trip.

Robert Costa reports that "the weekend rage" continues and says "Stay tuned."

Priebus and Comey neck-and-neck in a race to be fired next from the Administration? (also, Where in the World is Kellyanne Conway?)
posted by sallybrown at 4:52 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

where is Rudy?

Trying to get his tech security firm's website back up?
posted by holgate at 4:53 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

If the NYT article on the rollback of regulations didn't horrify you enough, go look at the full document. The Business Roundtable Wish List is especially rage-inducing, including the requested invalidation of: the Fair Pay and Safe Workplaces executive order, the CEO Pay Ratio Disclosure and the FCC Open Internet Order (aka net neutrality).
posted by triggerfinger at 5:00 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

Marco's efforts to play both sides of this really make him the Aaron Burr of our time.
posted by zachlipton at 5:02 PM on March 5, 2017 [9 favorites]

They are going to drag Obama in front of an investigative panel, aren't they?

Do it. Chickens, you lack spine. DOOOO ITTTTTTTTT! This is a good idea which will actually further your agenda and not sink your party for a generation.

In no way will this result in a combined "Please Proceed Governor!" and "Have you no sense of decency, sir?" moment. No chance of that at all with a constitutional scholar and about the most unflappable and prepared man on the planet.

And then the token democrat on the panel will ask, "Well, what did you know about the investigations into the Trump Campaign?"

And then, under oath, on C-SPAN, while naming corroborating witnesses, Obama will tell them.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:08 PM on March 5, 2017 [54 favorites]

Except that it wouldn't be on C-SPAN but behind closed doors. They could drag him in and then walk out shaking their heads and looking at him like he's guilty.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:14 PM on March 5, 2017 [11 favorites]

They are going to drag Obama in front of an investigative panel, aren't they?

No. As JackFlash said upthread, GOP committee chairs are only marginally better at show trial hearings than legislating, but they are not going to pwn themselves in public.
posted by holgate at 5:15 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Teed off: Critics say Trump water rule helps his golf links

gag
posted by prefpara at 5:17 PM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

BillMoyers.com: To Our Readers

This is two commentaries on one page. First are Bill Moyer's comments on Trump's tweets against Obama this past weekend.

... But for sure our president is up to no good. As we are reminded by the evangelist Peter: “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.”

By coincidence, when these latest rants erupted [...], we were just about to post excerpts from a speech delivered Thursday night at McMaster University in Canada by Henry Giroux, who was being honored by his colleagues there for his prolific career as a scholar and author. Giroux holds the McMaster University Chair for Scholarship in the Public Interest and has kept a keen eye on American culture in particular and the growth of authoritarian politics in general. After reading Trump’s latest rants, we thought these remarks more pertinent than ever.

Second, Trump’s Authoritarianism: Rethinking Orwell’s ‘1984’ and Strategizing the Resistance, by Henry Giroux

Market Driven Politics

There can be little doubt about the ideological direction of the Trump administration given his appointment of billionaires, generals, white supremacists, representatives of the corporate elite and general incompetents to the highest levels of government. Public spheres that once offered at least the glimmer of progressive ideas, enlightened social policies, non-commodified values and critical dialogue and exchange have and will be increasingly commercialized — or replaced by private spaces and corporate settings whose ultimate fidelity is to increasing profit margins.

What we are witnessing under the Trump administration is more than an aesthetics of vulgarity, as the mainstream media sometimes suggest. Instead, we are observing a politics fueled by a market-driven view of society that has turned its back on the very idea that social values, public trust and communal relations are fundamental to a democratic society. It is to Orwell’s credit that in his dystopian view of society, he opened a door for all to see a “nightmarish future” in which everyday life becomes harsh, an object of state surveillance and control — a society in which the slogan “Ignorance is Strength” morphs into a guiding principle of the highest levels of government, mainstream media, education and the popular culture.

posted by ZeusHumms at 5:21 PM on March 5, 2017 [31 favorites]

The result, though, is that the embassy is largely crippled and there's no clear way forward. My pal said that their pal thought this would also be true for a lot of other embassies around the world, because of the nature of the mis-step.

I suspect staff at the State Department exploited this clusterfuck when they issued the Australian author Mem Fox an apology for how she was treated on landing at LAX.

The broken chain of command didn't tell them not to apologize, so they apologized.
posted by ocschwar at 5:22 PM on March 5, 2017 [15 favorites]

Has anyone being paying attention to Wikileaks? Seems like they are due a parallel meltdown about their Trump backchannel.
posted by Artw at 5:25 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

This hasn't happened. For whatever reason, the old codes were disabled but the new codes weren't propagated

Per several comments above, I'm almost prepared to accept that this is intentional, as a way of leaving the Administration with no recourse but military escalation. You know I grant this Administration all the strategic forethought of a two-year-old high on oven-cleaner fumes, and I know that with them, the stupidest possible explanation is most often the correct one, but I could probably see my way clear to believing this was a premeditated and conscious hobbling of State's ability to conduct diplomacy.
posted by adamgreenfield at 5:31 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Or they have no idea WTF the codes are and probably still don't know about them.
posted by Artw at 5:34 PM on March 5, 2017 [14 favorites]

From the market meltdown article:

"We will have a government shutdown," said Stockman. "It is totally unexpected, unpriced in by Wall Street, [and] it will spook everybody."

Weird that he brings that up without even mentioning the Trillion-Dollar coin concept or the appeal it will have for Trump given his total disrespect for convention.
posted by Coventry at 5:40 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

Spicey tried to send them the new codes via Twitter.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 5:50 PM on March 5, 2017 [16 favorites]

We have been here before: 1932 John Heartfield (Helmut Herzfelde) – “Millions Stand behind Me: The Meaning of Hitler’s Salute” (1932). The commentary at the bottom of the picture says: small man asks for big donations.
posted by adamvasco at 5:56 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

Other than crying when Hillary lost, I've been able to be pretty rock steady, keeping families, friends and community together as I can, but that nyt article about how much destruction they've been able to do in 6 short weeks, while we're distracted by President Tinyhands and his Tremendous Tantrums, just made me weep. It's almost enough to make me lose all hope.

Making sure that drinking water is polluted, that financial advisors can lie to enrich themselves, that internet is determined by your provider...the list of deplorable goes on and on, and my stomach hurts and I just don't know what we can do to stop the crazy train.

Holy fuck, you guys. What do we do?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:56 PM on March 5, 2017 [58 favorites]

Wall St. is misreading Trump, and a market bloodbath is imminent: Stockman

I had a long conversation with my wife today about some of this stuff and how I think the economy is on a roll that will come to an end at some point in 2019. I totally forgot about the possibility of the teaparty repubs shutting down the government at some point for style points so thanks Stockman for that slap in the face.

Question: what sources are my fellow Mefites turning to for economic news and analysis that aren't Krugman? I fully realize that if Trump decides to lob a nuke at N Korea or Syria all bets are off but just wondering where I can get level-headed economic analysis while we still have a functioning economy.
posted by photoslob at 5:56 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

Costa says: "Trump unhappy with RUBIO for hitching a ride on Air Force One, then offering muted comments Sunday on Trump's claims"

Is there anyone who Trump isn't deeply unhappy with right now?

This is from WaPo: Inside Trump’s fury: The president rages at leaks, setbacks and accusations, based on 17 sources. It's a hell of an article:

President Trump spent the weekend at “the winter White House,” Mar-a-Lago, the secluded Florida castle where he is king. The sun sparkles off the glistening lawn and warms the russet clay Spanish tiles, and the steaks are cooked just how he likes them (well done). His daughter Ivanka and son-in-law Jared Kushner — celebrated as calming influences on the tempestuous president — joined him. But they were helpless to contain his fury.

Trump was mad — steaming, raging mad.

posted by zachlipton at 6:00 PM on March 5, 2017 [46 favorites]

Inside Trump’s fury: The president rages at leaks, setbacks and accusations

whooo boy, this one is a doozy

As reporters began to hear about the Oval Office meeting, Priebus interrupted his Friday afternoon schedule to dedicate more than an hour to calling reporters off the record to deny that the outburst had actually happened, according to a senior White House official.

posted by sallybrown at 6:03 PM on March 5, 2017 [8 favorites]

wondering where I can get level-headed economic analysis while we still have a functioning economy.

How levelheaded? Calculated Risk is good, but mostly boring. Housing and econometrics focused.
posted by Coventry at 6:04 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

The Koch pieces of trash are as much to blame for Twitler as anyone. I wish infinite amounts of horror upon those soulless monsters though I know they will probably never feel the tiniest bit of the suffering they themselves caused and are still causing America. When the civil war starts the ultra rich cowardly bastards will be among the first to get the hell out of the US and among the very few who will be safe. Shitstains on society. Scumbags. Vermin. I hope their line is obliterated and their name becomes the vilest of curse words.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 6:07 PM on March 5, 2017 [22 favorites]

Thinking about the people who are actually working in such a toxic sludge of rage and paranoia:

Take the small pool of people with the right qualifications for White House jobs:
subtract out everyone who spoke against Trump during the campaign, whom Trump refuses to hire
subtract out everyone with moral principles that demand they not work for Trump
subtract out everyone who's pragmatic enough to realize this will be a trainwreck
subtract out everyone who's wise enough to realize the cache of a White House job is not worth this level of miserty

and you have the new administration. (This does not include the Obama holdovers.)
posted by sallybrown at 6:10 PM on March 5, 2017 [11 favorites]

based on 17 sources

Wow. That should help Trump calm down and get over his bad mood.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:10 PM on March 5, 2017 [39 favorites]

As reporters began to hear about the Oval Office meeting, Priebus interrupted his Friday afternoon schedule to dedicate more than an hour to calling reporters off the record to deny that the outburst had actually happened, according to a senior White House official.

Whoa! I wonder who their source is! 🙄
posted by indubitable at 6:11 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

In terms of Trumpism causing market calamities, something I haven't heard as much about as I think is warranted is the impact of the harsh and inhumane immigration crackdown causing labor shortages for farms. This has happened before, with other anti-immigrant laws. Farmers (and farm laborers) are scared, and there are already signs of economic impact.

The Trump administration is essentially a regime of far-right wing media suddenly having massive state power. The ongoing, lockstep support of their media boosters is a huge part of why the country is in such dire straits right now. But I think--no matter what Breitbart publishes, no matter what hate radio says--that a lot of farmers are going to be very angry with Trump come harvest time.
posted by overglow at 6:13 PM on March 5, 2017 [10 favorites]

> This hasn't happened. For whatever reason, the old codes were disabled but the new codes weren't propagated

The London US embassy is moving across the river shortly, I think. Maybe, if it's a lot of hassle to change the codes, they're just going to forego until the move?
posted by Quagkapi at 6:13 PM on March 5, 2017

I have to say, my favorite part of the "Inside Trump's Fury" article is that he's all pissed off about marginal wackjob nonentity Carter Page repeatedly going on TV and making him look bad. See, Carter's not completely useless after all!
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:13 PM on March 5, 2017 [17 favorites]

As reporters began to hear about the Oval Office meeting, Priebus interrupted his Friday afternoon schedule to dedicate more than an hour to calling reporters off the record to deny that the outburst had actually happened, according to a senior White House official.

Whoa! I wonder who their source is! 🙄

...wait I don't get it. Why would Priebus call the Post to tell them that he just spent an hour lying to reporters, but then insist on anonymity?
posted by saturday_morning at 6:14 PM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

How levelheaded? Calculated Risk is good, but mostly boring. Housing and econometrics focused.

Seconding Calculated Risk for economic news and analysis.
posted by diogenes at 6:14 PM on March 5, 2017

I live in Kevin McCarthy's home town. I don't think the folks in the east part of town, will stand still for ICE raids. Trump is setting us up for civil war. This is such a diverse and happy town. Lots of oil around here, and citrus fruit, well and wild parrots.

"Trump was mad — steaming, raging mad." Well there must be a storm coming. We didn't sign on for Dads getting kidnapped taking the kids to school, or children stripped from their mother's arms at the border. These acts and threats are bad publicity for President Trump. His totem animus savages are acting on their own now, none of them have communications degrees.
posted by Oyéah at 6:14 PM on March 5, 2017 [12 favorites]

Ambassadors were booted around January 20th iirc so that is a long long time to be without access codes.
posted by futz at 6:15 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

...wait I don't get it. Why would Priebus call the Post to tell them that he just spent an hour lying to reporters, but then insist on anonymity?

The source probably isn't Priebus. Conway? Bannon?
posted by sallybrown at 6:16 PM on March 5, 2017

if i could have died last year to make sure this wasn't happening, i would have done so joyously. i tried. my friends and i, we did everything physically possible, to make this not happen. we held our little city by six points. i sort of feel like dying now. there's a governor race, though, and i guess i can go try to save the commonwealth. but i hate this. i am so sick, and so goddamned tired, and i hate that everything we did came to nothing.
posted by dogheart at 6:17 PM on March 5, 2017 [30 favorites]

In terms of Trumpism causing market calamities, something I haven't heard as much about as I think is warranted is the impact of the harsh and inhumane immigration crackdown causing labor shortages for farms.

"How will this affect my stock portfolio?" is a weird thought to have about what is essentially mass crop failure. I mean, I guess one has time for daydreams while waiting in a bread line.
posted by indubitable at 6:18 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

" terrifying schadenfreude" Schadenfreude auf Steroide.
posted by Oyéah at 6:23 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Still, for those of us less enknowledgemated about the fiduciarital arts would you mind elaborating some?

VXX is a fund that attempts to represent short term volatility. If you think the market is going to do very poorly in a short while, you can buy it and make a bunch of money after selling it when the market goes down. The market was awful in May 2012, for example, which cause VXX to spike for a short period of time. The chart diogenes linked to shows that it's selling for a very small amount compared to its peak during the financial crisis, indicating that lots of investors aren't expecting a crash in the short term.

That said, VXX is not necessarily the greatest fund in general (almost everyone that's invested in it since 2009 has lost significant amounts of money - I included VTI for comparison, which represents the general stock market), so to an extent its current value means that investors that are willing to invest in VXX don't think there will be a plunge in the short term, which doesn't necessarily mean that professional investors think that.

It's also rational to say that the likelihood of the market plunging this year is small enough that it's not worth investing in a fund that will cost significant money if there isn't one compared to holding additional cash in expectation of one.
posted by Candleman at 6:25 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

The terrorism involved in ICE raids, against the agricultural business model of California, Arizona, Texas, and even Utah. Making life for poor families even more fraught.
posted by Oyéah at 6:25 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

...wait I don't get it. Why would Priebus call the Post to tell them that he just spent an hour lying to reporters, but then insist on anonymity?

Why would Priebus rant about how he hates anonymous sources and then spend an hour being an anonymous source? It's almost like someone at the Post would want to make him look as stupid as possible for that position.
posted by zachlipton at 6:31 PM on March 5, 2017 [19 favorites]

immigration crackdown causing labor shortages for farms

We here in Central Florida are in peak strawberry season. The second largest state fair is the Strawberry Festival in Plant city which happens to be in one of the largest swaths of agricultural FL. Tomatoes are grown here as well and of course the citrus industry still has a large presence. Florida's agricultural industry runs on undocumented immigrant labor. If this administration is left unchecked I'm confident there will be a massive roundup of immigrants for deportation back to Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, etc. The seasonal workers who come here from those places will be discouraged and the growers will have no one to pick their produce. Florida's agricultural industry will literally die on the vine.

The perfect storm of an interruption in the agricultural work force, inflation, plateauing housing market where people can't use their homes as ATM's (yes, that's happening again) and therefore can't afford to go on vacations at Disney and the beach is going to bring FL's economy to it's knees again. The economy here has just barely recovered and every day I wake up with the deep dread that it's about to go into the shitter again. That would mean a loss of service, retail and tourism jobs that folks living on the margins work two and three of to pay their bills. It means pain for everyone including the misguided and ignorant that voted for Trump. It means those voters start looking for other people to blame for their continued economic misfortune. Not a pretty picture.
posted by photoslob at 6:33 PM on March 5, 2017 [25 favorites]

oh lord, the looks on his grandchildren's respective faces in the photo accompanying the Post piece are poetry. poetry such as I thought the modern world had lost the subtlety and lyrical facility to compose. they don't have to wait to grow up and write memoirs, those two. that little boy's furrowed brow and troubled chin, that little girl's smooth expression like a placid da vinci madonna dropped into a boschian hellmonsterscape but entirely used to it. those kids have mastered the speaking silence.

p.s. I cannot BELIEVE that is not an alexandra petri joke piece. it would have been one of her better ones if it was.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:35 PM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

The photo with the Post story is such a troll, with the tie showing the tape. It's like they wanted to see how high they can get his blood pressure with one article and threw everything in.
posted by zachlipton at 6:37 PM on March 5, 2017 [26 favorites]

Which WaPo article queenofbithynia? There are so many... Please forgive me if it is blatantly obvious.
posted by futz at 6:38 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

Part of me dearly wants to be soothed by the knowledge that at least he's completely miserable.

But then the rest of me remembers that the more miserable he is, the more miserable he will make it for everyone else.

It's going to be quite a week.
posted by mochapickle at 6:40 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

oh THAT article. Got it.
posted by futz at 6:40 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

Knives are out for Reince

With the White House struggling to gain its footing almost two months into Donald Trump's presidency, administration officials are increasingly putting the blame on one person: Reince Priebus.

In interviews, over a dozen Trump aides, allies, and others close to the White House said that Priebus, the 44-year-old chief of staff, was becoming a singular target of criticism within the White House. . . .

Others complain about Priebus’s West Wing management, which they argue has become suffocating. They point to his habit of sprinting into meetings — “He literally runs,” said one senior administration official — which has led top aides to believe that he is trying to edge his way into their conversations or monitor their discussions with the president. A White House official dismissed the criticism, calling Priebus, simply, "high-energy." . . .

Some advisers joke the communications office is more protective of Priebus than the president, and they often mount an aggressive defense any time he is scrutinized. . . .

If White House employees begin to head for the exits, one aide suggested, a change could be sooner than expected.

“I think the president is starting to figure it out,” this person said, “slowly but surely.”

posted by sallybrown at 6:42 PM on March 5, 2017 [10 favorites]

The perfect storm of an interruption in the agricultural work force, inflation, plateauing housing market where people can't use their homes as ATM's (yes, that's happening again) and therefore can't afford to go on vacations at Disney and the beach is going to bring FL's economy to it's knees again.

Ooh, don't forget about the immigration shenanigans suppressing international tourism.
posted by jackbishop at 6:42 PM on March 5, 2017 [14 favorites]

What business function does being able to profit from a market decline serve? I mean, ostensibly?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:42 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

President Trump spent the weekend at “the winter White House,” Mar-a-Lago, the secluded Florida castle where he is king. The sun sparkles off the glistening lawn and warms the russet clay Spanish tiles, and the steaks are cooked just how he likes them (well done). His daughter Ivanka and son-in-law Jared Kushner — celebrated as calming influences on the tempestuous president — joined him. But they were helpless to contain his fury.

that one, futz. that one is pushing past alexandra petri towards mallory ortberg if you ask me. with a little dash of David Lynch's "The Angriest Dog in the World." I have to make up my own measuring scales for these things.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:43 PM on March 5, 2017 [11 favorites]

Yeah, sure, jettison the one dude who knows anything at all about how Washington works. Sounds about right. (Reince was doomed from the get-go, and I've always been baffled by his toadying. He's Reek 2.0 and look how well that went for v.1.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:44 PM on March 5, 2017 [11 favorites]

With the White House struggling to gain its footing almost two months into Donald Trump's presidency, administration officials are increasingly putting the blame on one person: Reince Priebus.

Oh Goody! Will he take the fall quietly? I hope this ends his career but these fucknuggets always have a comeback after hiking the Appalachian Trail. Repubs love their martyrs
posted by futz at 6:46 PM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

obvious anagram reince priebus knows how the republican party works but not really that much about how washington works. which is better than bannon who understands neither, but it's not really saving trump's ass when it comes to being able to work with congress
posted by murphy slaw at 6:47 PM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

Does he moderate Nazi influences in any way or jut try to make them actionable?
posted by Artw at 6:48 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

always have a comeback after hiking the Appalachian Trail

if i was reince priebus right now i would think that fucking off to buenos aires with my mistress for a couple of weeks sounds goddamn amazing
posted by murphy slaw at 6:49 PM on March 5, 2017 [14 favorites]

Does he moderate Nazi influences in any way or just try to make them actionable?

We're gonna find out as soon as Priebus is heaved out the Moon Door.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:50 PM on March 5, 2017 [11 favorites]

What business function does being able to profit from a market decline serve? I mean, ostensibly?

It's pretty much just gambling for the people involved: one side bets shares will go up, the other bets that they will go down. But there are real reasons why someone might want the ability to do this, reasons that aren't scurrilous or imprudent.

Let's say that you have a lot of money in shares and you're scared of a market crash. You might sell some of the shares, but that would mean a lot of accounting work, transactional costs, and the possibility of now having to pay tax on your capital gains. So instead, you buy a warrant that obliges someone to pay you $xxx if the market falls by more than, say, 10%. If the market remains stable you're fine; if it crashes by less than 10% you can cope, and if it crashes by more than 10% your losses are made up for by the warrant. The person selling the warrant makes their money because most times the market doesn't crash.

So right now, you can keep an eye on the warrants and other financial instruments that represent the market's best guess about financial volatility. If they start spiking rapidly, it means that people think a crash has become more likely.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:52 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

My eye is caught by the close juxtaposition of the helpfully explanatory "Kushner, who is a White House senior adviser" and next-paragraph anti-Reince sentiment from "according to a senior White House official."

like sure there are plenty of senior officials, but they are totally saying it was Kushner who said that particular thing. that whole article is art so I think I am right to read it artfully.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:52 PM on March 5, 2017 [19 favorites]

The Koch pieces of trash are as much to blame for Twitler as anyone.

Not really. Charles Koch was quoted that choosing between Trump and Clinton was like choosing between cancer and a heart attack. They provided little or no support to Trump. Of course the day after the election they chose cancer and now support the winner.

The Kochs have actually been more effective in their spending, concentrating on the state legislatures. It is much cheaper to buy a state legislature seat or two to get a statehouse majority with a strategically placed 10 or 20 thousand dollars than the 10 million dollars or so to win a federal Senate seat. The Kochs are a big reason for the big advantage Republicans have in state houses.

For Trump, on the other hand, look to another family of billionaires, the Mercers, rich from running hedge funds. They originally backed Cruz but quickly jumped on the Trump bandwagon when it looked like he would win the nomination. Bannon and Conway are long time beneficiaries of the Mercers and the Mercers are responsible for installing them in the Trump White House.

For all we know, Bannon and Conway are still on the Mercer payroll. Conway alone was pulling down a couple million a year from the Mercers. It's hard to imagine she would give that up without some sort of compensation agreement from the Mercers to be their personal mole in the White House.
posted by JackFlash at 6:53 PM on March 5, 2017 [14 favorites]

A White House official dismissed the criticism, calling Priebus, simply, "high-energy."

SAD!
posted by saturday_morning at 6:54 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

When Trump ran into Christopher Ruddy on the golf course and later at dinner Saturday, he vented to his friend. “This will be investigated,” Ruddy recalled Trump telling him. “It will all come out. I will be proven right.”

“He was pissed,” said Ruddy, the chief executive of Newsmax, a conservative media company. “I haven’t seen him this angry.”

I can't wait until Trump decides to blow off steam about some highly secret government matter to one of his buddies and we all get to read about it in the paper the next day. On the plus side for foreign governments, the need to have spies to sniff out the secrets of the White House just vanished. They must be saving a fortune.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 6:55 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

I like Mark Salter's comment tonight best: "What a box of broken toys these people are."
posted by sallybrown at 6:57 PM on March 5, 2017 [14 favorites]

Here in redstateistan, we inducted 56 new Dem precinct chairs yesterday (including me) and the energy level and determination was very high. We start training next weekend to get ready for an election in May and for 2018. Most of us have never done anything like this before. It was hammered home that if 15% more of our registered Dems voted, we would sweep the state-nevermind winning over Trumpers. So that's our first group to reach out to.
posted by emjaybee at 6:59 PM on March 5, 2017 [115 favorites]

If Reince Priebus leaves the Camarilla, will the loss of his "moderating" (lol) influence be a good or a bad thing for the republic? Like, will the Trumpmobile crash and burn, or will it now race unencumbered toward straight-up nepotist fascism?

I'd think all it does is accelerate the Trumpmobile, which is headed for Nepotist Fascistville with a broken steering wheel and a brick on the gas pedal already. It was going to get there anyway. Question is whether it's better to have the all-out assault on America happen earlier or later. Me, I think I prefer getting it over with while the good guys still have some energy left. I'm a glass-half-full kind of guy that way.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:59 PM on March 5, 2017 [11 favorites]

Ooh, don't forget about the immigration shenanigans suppressing international tourism.

Ironically, German tourism is huge here on Florida's west coast. They spend a ton of money. You have to wonder if they'll decide to just go to Cuba or the Bahamas instead. German tourism has been credited with being one of many factors supporting South Beach and Miami's renaissance in the early 90's and it's still a hot spot for tourists from around Europe. So yeah, lets piss off the germans and other europeans from liberal democracies. That'll show'em. Sigh.
posted by photoslob at 7:00 PM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

I get the feeling a lot of Priebus' real job is as the go-between for Ryan and McConnell to try to keep Trump on track with their agenda, and while that hasn't really worked in practice the dynamic changes if they're completely frozen out. The administration keeps writing checks Congress can't cash and complicating their attempts to solidify an actual agenda to whip their caucus to get in line behind, and Trump is in full on "surrounded by enemies" paranoia mode and lashing out left and right - the first time Congress sends something his way that isn't exactly the way he wanted it no matter how infeasible his demands are he's liable to turn on Ryan just like he always threatened to, and that situation's a lot more volatile without the false hope of Priebus as their man on the inside.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:05 PM on March 5, 2017 [9 favorites]

Holy fuck, you guys. What do we do?

We fight. In your own home town, there are a number of elections slated for this year. Get your friends and family and community to vote in them. Every one. Understand when and why elections are held in off years in the community, city/town/county, and understand how important, and how big of an impact they have on races at the state and national level, and also where you, yourself live right now. Organize, and get your organized friends and family and fellow travelers invested in what goes on in your own backyard. YOU. ARE. IMPORTANT. Your vote has so much sway in these elections. And these elections matter A LOT to you and yours, and up-ballot at the state level, and even further than that, you are elevating candidates and positions to national consideration each and every time you vote.

Learn when each election is, and what it's about, and get people to vote on it, and convince other people to show up and vote.

THIS IS THE ONLY WAY WE WILL WIN.

It's not enough to show up once every four years. It's not enough to show up for the mid-terms. There are elections in odd years and odd months. Take and interest, show up, and we win.

WE FIGHT!
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:06 PM on March 5, 2017 [71 favorites]

What business function does being able to profit from a market decline serve? I mean, ostensibly?

If you invest in something that goes up when the market goes down, the money you put into it winds up in the hands of businesses that naturally expand in recessions, and businesses that are being smart by bracing for the blow. They use your money to prepare, so they do better than others who didn't, then pay you back more than you put in. That actually helps the economy weather the downturn.

Or at least, that's what's supposed to happen in a functioning market.
posted by dirge at 7:06 PM on March 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

Question is whether it's better to have the all-out assault on America happen earlier or later. Me, I think I prefer getting it over with while the good guys still have some energy left.

I think it's either now or in the context of a random (or at least stochastic) future catastrophe, in which they would take advantage of the crisis and the shocked/suppressed resistance to really go full on bonkers end-of-america. If that's the choice, I'll take now.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:07 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

"The White House vigorously disputed the notion that Priebus is losing the confidence of senior West Wing staff. Senior officials say the president respects the chief of staff for his deep relationships on Capitol Hill, and that no staff shakeup is expected in the immediate future."

... Preibus is doomed.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:10 PM on March 5, 2017 [27 favorites]

The Kochs were a large part of the Tea Party, IIRC, the part of anarchy and deconstruction and party over country, and the Tea Party begat Trump. They bought it then broke it.
posted by Dashy at 7:11 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

The Priebus "has got to go" story has been around since Feb 12 when Newsmax Ruddy blabbed to the media. Which he then tried to walk back. The story has legs because:

And some of Trump's aides feared that Ruddy was speaking on the president's behalf when he criticized Priebus on television, because the two men had seen each other for 30 minutes the night before at Mar-a-Lago.
posted by futz at 7:14 PM on March 5, 2017

bluecore at 7:28 PM: As long as I live I'll never understand billionaires that don't want poor people to have basic necessities like health care. What more do you want that you can't buy with your billions of dollars?

Slaves. They want slaves.

They want to be surrounded by people who have to beg them for food, shelter, and medical care. They want to signal their favor and disfavor by arbitrarily and capriciously granting or withholding the necessities of life. They crave the total, abject, cowering deference that the fear of unaccountable power inspires.

They want this more than any amount of money. It drives them mad that no amount of money can buy it in a civilized society. So they're more than happy to spend every penny of their ill-gotten gains to dismantle the underpinnings of civilization itself.

So there you go. Now you understand billionaires that don't want poor people to have basic necessities.
posted by dirge at 7:25 PM on March 5, 2017 [81 favorites]

That's a bit hyperbolic. I'm sure there are lots of billionaires who'd be happy to settle for serfs instead.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:28 PM on March 5, 2017 [16 favorites]

Slaves. They want slaves.

They want to be surrounded by people who have to beg them for food, shelter, and medical care. They want to signal their favor and disfavor by arbitrarily and capriciously granting or withholding the necessities of life. They crave the total, abject, cowering deference that the fear of unaccountable power inspires.

They want this more than any amount of money. It drives them mad that no amount of money can buy it in a civilized society. So they're more than happy to spend every penny of their ill-gotten gains to dismantle the underpinnings of civilization itself.

So there you go. Now you understand billionaires that don't want poor people to have basic necessities.

I'm pretty sure there was a simpler hypothesis, which is that they are free-market ideologues who think that it's impossible to design good public health care, and that they are further biased against the ACA because their political opponents made it. Not everything has to be about your enemies being insane devil-men.
posted by value of information at 7:31 PM on March 5, 2017 [21 favorites]

I think most billionaires are happy to settle for a couple billion dollars. Obviously not all of them though.
posted by dirge at 7:32 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

They want to be surrounded by people who have to beg them for food, shelter, and medical care. They want to signal their favor and disfavor by arbitrarily and capriciously granting or withholding the necessities of life. They crave the total, abject, cowering deference that the fear of unaccountable power inspires.

Chris Bertram, 2012, Let It Bleed: Libertarianism and the Workplace

What makes the private sector, especially the workplace, such an attractive instrument of repression is precisely that it can administer punishments without being subject to the constraints of the Bill of Rights. It is an archipelago of private governments, in which employers are free to do precisely what the state is forbidden to do: punish without process. Far from providing a check against the state, the private sector can easily become an adjutant of the state. Not through some process of liberal corporatism but simply because employers often share the goals of state officials and are better positioned to act upon them.

Is Donald Trump Really Worth Some Tax Cuts?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:33 PM on March 5, 2017 [17 favorites]

i don't even think it's about wanting slaves, it's about wanting no one to have the power to tell them that they can't do exactly what they want, when they want it. a massive underclass dependent on their whims is not going to interpose itself between them and the current object of their will
posted by murphy slaw at 7:33 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

So basically what we do is we eat the rich.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:35 PM on March 5, 2017 [14 favorites]

it's about wanting no one to have the power to tell them that they can't do exactly what they want

Well, sure. And perhaps I should've just put it like that, rather than taking what is, I think, exactly the same point to its reductio ad absurdum conclusion.
posted by dirge at 7:37 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

I have basically raised my son to believe that people with a whole lot of money should be approached cautiously, because from all evidence having too much money does terrible things to your brain/soul.
posted by emjaybee at 7:37 PM on March 5, 2017 [21 favorites]

naw, consuming apex predators is unsustainable and the bioaccumulation is horrendous.

let's just gank all their stuff and drop them off on an island somewhere where they can do their little lord of the flies/atlas shrugged mashup until nature takes its course
posted by murphy slaw at 7:38 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

eat the rich

You have seen the Koch brothers, right?

More seriously though, I'm not sure it's the rich that are the problem, so much as it's that certain pathological personality types are a much bigger problem if they happen also to be rich.
posted by dirge at 7:40 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

So basically what we do is we eat the rich.

And behold, a swarm of bees and honey were in the carcass of the lion. 9 He took some of it in his hands and went along, eating. When he came to his father and mother, he gave some to them, and they also ate. But he did not tell them that he had taken the honey out of the carcass of the lion. 10 So his father went down to the woman. And Samson gave a feast there, for young men used to do so. 11 And it happened, when they saw him, that they brought thirty companions to be with him. 12 Then Samson said to them, “Let me pose a riddle to you. If you can correctly solve and explain it to me within the seven days of the feast, then I will give you thirty linen garments and thirty changes of clothing. 13 But if you cannot explain it to me, then you shall give me thirty linen garments and thirty changes of clothing.”
And they said to him, “Pose your riddle, that we may hear it.” 14 So he said to them:
“Out of the eater came something to eat,
And out of the strong came something sweet.”
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:43 PM on March 5, 2017 [20 favorites]

They gave up all free market ideology with trump, now they're all about heavy state involvement so long as they are the state and the involvement lines their pockets.
posted by Artw at 7:49 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

More seriously though, I'm not sure it's the rich that are the problem, so much as it's that certain pathological personality types are a much bigger problem if they happen also to be rich.

There are also people who like being subservient to their betters? I'm not sure how prevalent this personality type is, but I know a guy who seems to like wealthy people because of their wealth. When he meets people who have money, he will gush about how much he admires them and kind of be obsequious towards them. He doesn't act like that around average people.
posted by Blue Genie at 7:51 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump sons, planning expansion of family business, look to leverage campaign experience

Donald Trump Jr. said that since the inauguration, he has spoken with his father twice on the phone and once in person — when he and his brother attended the announcement of their father’s Supreme Court nominee, Neil Gorsuch. Eric Trump said he may ask his father how things are in the White House but would never discuss government or business affairs.

Can this be remotely true? Plus, there are obvs many many ways to communicate. I wonder if this absolute statement will ever need to be verified in court.

“Will we ever talk about tax policy? Will I ever ask for anything that could otherwise benefit the business? Absolutely, emphatically not,” Eric Trump said. “He has no need to know what we’re doing, and I certainly don’t need to know what they’re doing, and I don’t want to.”

I don't believe this either.

“I’m probably the most obviously like [Trump Sr.],” Ivanka Trump said in a 2011 company video titled “Trump: The Next Generation.”

“In certain ways,” she added, “Eric is very similar to him in terms of his love of construction and building. And Don has his sense of humor.”

Sense of humor???

These three skeeve me out so bad.
posted by futz at 7:55 PM on March 5, 2017 [17 favorites]

I'm not saying those Trump boys are Hitler clones, but are we sure they don't have Brazilian birth certificates?
posted by Room 641-A at 7:59 PM on March 5, 2017 [16 favorites]

I would assume massive conflicts of interest at every single step.
posted by Artw at 8:02 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

>These three skeeve me out so bad.

Grandsons of a racist slumlord so notorious that Woody Guthrie wrote a song about him!
posted by Catblack at 8:03 PM on March 5, 2017 [11 favorites]

Not everything has to be about your enemies being insane devil-men.

They're not insane devil-men. They're just people with the very human flaws of a desperate need for validation, and an inclination towards abuse, concentrated by isolation and privilege, and amplified by inhuman wealth. I don't think they, say the Koch brothers for example, are consciously aware that their policy objectives are functionally equivalent to a comic book super-villain's plan to enslave the human race. They're not an embodiment of evil really, except in the way that sad, small, mean men with unaccountable power are evil.
posted by dirge at 8:12 PM on March 5, 2017 [17 favorites]

If Reince Priebus leaves the Camarilla,

As a Ventrue Antitribu, I believe he left the Camarilla some time ago.
posted by corb at 8:13 PM on March 5, 2017 [19 favorites]

Nah, Eric and Don Jr can't be Hitler clones, because Trump's ego. However, if some lethal mishap occurs to them, I'm sure "Rusty" Trump will just do what he's done before: have a couple fresh clones decanted, acceleratingly grown, and then locked in their bed pods while the DeVos edutainment programming runs its course.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 8:18 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

Not everything has to be about your enemies being insane devil-men

I don't believe in the devil but they seem pretty damn devil-man-ish to me. Or at the very least anti-jesus.
posted by futz at 8:20 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Metafilter: approximately 42% of all statements were issued by someone on some kind of dope.
posted by msalt at 8:22 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

Metafilter: approximately 42% of all statements were issued by someone on some kind of dope.

Is that a typo? 420%? jk.
posted by futz at 8:26 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Not everything has to be about your enemies being insane devil-men.

These guys want to dismantle anything that could help someone who's broke-ass poor with a medical bill that could break them finacially. At the same time they want to put their foot on people's necks to drive down their wages. The thing of it is they were able to amass their billions in what they perceive to be a choking regulatory environment. So the question for them is: "How did you manage that if this is such an oppressive regulatory environment?"

So let's set aside how the Koch brothers may have made their money. Let's say for the sake of argument it was pure pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps American entrepreneurial moxie.

Why, bros, do you feel the need to shit on people who need help? Are you devil-men? If not, show your work.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:26 PM on March 5, 2017 [36 favorites]

What business function does being able to profit from a market decline serve? I mean, ostensibly?

It also serves as a signal that savvy investors see problems, which is why we talk about "the smart money" doing X or Y. That's exactly how this came up, a Mefite noting that investors are not betting on volatility. Of course, that fund might just be a poor proxy for volatility, which scrambles the signal.

But if you saw the movie "The Big Short," you understand the power of contrarians following their beliefs instead of the market trend. That's a useful bit of information.

I remember thinking the same thoughts those folks did around 2004 when I bought a house and was stunned that banks would easily give me a loan on it. Hell, I wouldn't have given me a loan. It only worked because I -- with no experience -- acted as a general contractor removing an asbestos-covered boiler and building out a 2 bedroom duplex in the basement. I pulled it off, with the help of a friend who just happened to have managed an asbestos removal crew and was poor at the time, but it was a terrible bet for the bank. The appraisals in particular were openly corrupt - they just asked you want number you wanted.

Never occurred to me to invest based on that, and I didn't have any money to invest anyway. Dang.
posted by msalt at 8:30 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

The problem with 'eat the rich' is that there is very poor consensus of the definition of 'rich' - as shown clearly by the previous "1%" rhetoric.

The 'rich,' whose eating of (and redistribution of their wealth) might actually do some net good probably starts somewhere closer to the "0.000001%."

I'm very open on changing the number of zeros after the decimal point, the given number is about the 1 in 1 million people, so the top 350 or so people in the USA.

For perspective, eliminating the top 0.000001% wealthholders of the world, would depopulate most Western countries.

I started parting out an average human body as a livestock share, but that got too dark too fast. Do you want that farm-raised, single-family home with a backyard-raised, or is condo-raised ok?
posted by porpoise at 8:33 PM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

I mean, if the Koch-bros were going to throw their estimable economic and political clout into "Hey! Let's create an affordable healthcare solution that can work for all Americans," that would be one thing.

The problem is that they want to take it away from people who have been able to latch on to a mere semblance of it and halt any more progress toward it.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:36 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

For perspective, eliminating the top 0.000001% wealthholders of the world, would depopulate most Western countries.

Umm.. no.

7,000,000,000 * (0.000001 / 100) = 70.
posted by Nerd of the North at 8:38 PM on March 5, 2017 [30 favorites]

So, Robert Costa, who is the GOP Whisperer, has 17 sources from within the White House and more from the GOP establishment, and together they combine into a portrait of King Lear on the heath. This is fine.
posted by holgate at 8:38 PM on March 5, 2017 [19 favorites]

For perspective, eliminating the top 0.000001% wealthholders of the world, would depopulate most Western countries.

It's like 73 people. I'm not supporting eliminating anyone, but that math doesn't work here.
posted by zachlipton at 8:39 PM on March 5, 2017 [14 favorites]

Why, bros, do you feel the need to shit on people who need help?

I know some people who are like this, albeit on much smaller than billionaire scale. The shitting on people who need help thing actually follows from the pulled yourself up by your bootstraps self-mythologizing.

They've convinced themselves that they succeeded despite having no help, indeed because they had no help and were subjected to various egregious misfortunes, which drove them to success through sheer grit and determination. It follows that the best way for them to "help" someone else is to provide proper motivation by making that person's life as difficult as possible, in the hopes that they'll finally find their will to power and choose to succeed. The worse off you are, the more of that kind of "help" you need.

Seriously. People really think like that.
posted by dirge at 8:42 PM on March 5, 2017 [44 favorites]

U.S. Warned of Foreign Intel Operations After Russian Met With Team Trump at RNC

The day Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak mingled with Trump campaign advisers—including then-Sen. Jeff Sessions—at a conference near the Republican National Convention, the Department of Homeland Security began preparing a nationwide warning about foreign intelligence officials attempting to elicit information from U.S. government personnel at conferences, events, and other functions.

The document, eventually released on July 27, 2016, and reviewed by The Daily Beast, doesn’t specifically mention which foreign intelligence service might be making such contacts. But a senior administration official says that growing concern within U.S. government circles about Russian interference in the election generally—and Kislyak’s presence at the RNC in particular—was “not unrelated” to the production of the DHS intelligence bulletin.
posted by futz at 8:48 PM on March 5, 2017 [16 favorites]

Well, eliminating the top 1% (that's 70 million) wealthholders of the world would not seriously depopulate much of the West, but there'd be some definitely empty areas.

I'd say it might be enough to make a horrifying example of Donald Trump, but most of the Evil Rich frequently laugh behind their backs at him. Add a few more key individuals, like the Koches and Thiel to the bonfire (and burn them thoroughly, don't just cook them for later consumption), and maybe let the rest of the Forbes 400 buy their way out of a death sentence by redistributing 99% of their wealth, but I'm probably putting myself on a watchlist just by JOKINGLY suggesting it.

People really think like that.
And a disturbingly large number of those who think like that, if you investigate their personal histories, actually had plenty of help, including Government help, along the way. But they need that lie for their Personal Mythology and Self-Worth to avoid collapsing like a Market Bubble.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:51 PM on March 5, 2017 [22 favorites]

More.

-- Another source confirms the connection, pointing to a section of the bulletin warning of attempts by foreign intelligence officials “to gather intelligence through what appears to be normal, even mundane, social or professional contact” at events including conferences.

-- ...Not all of the sources agreed about the importance of the bulletin. Some viewed it as routine and somewhat obvious given its timing just months before an election; others believed it to be a serious indication of the FBI’s long-running investigatory interest in Moscow’s attempts to sway the American political process.

And LOL, in regards to Kislyak:

“Dude is everywhere, so fucking what,” said a member of the Trump campaign of the Russian ambassador. “You don’t think we do the same thing over there?”

“So yeah, we know him and he knows us, and you make small talk and you play that game. If you think that means I can’t handle my shit and we’re all Russian agents, go fuck yourself,” said this Trump campaign staffer, now working with the administration.

“But also seriously, I always wondered if he’s got a twin ’cause that dude is literally everywhere,” the official added, before quickly noting, “Obviously, I know he doesn’t.”
posted by futz at 8:54 PM on March 5, 2017 [20 favorites]

“So yeah, we know him and he knows us, and you make small talk and you play that game. If you think that means I can’t handle my shit and we’re all Russian agents, go fuck yourself,” said this Trump campaign staffer, now working with the administration.

Jeepers.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:56 PM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

It's almost like they've had it driven into them that absolutely anyone can succeed no matter what if they try hard enough, and therefore anyone who isn't even slightly successful obviously is too lazy to try anything.

My siblings are pretty much like this. We span a wide range of income and wealth, from a couple people on the edge of homelessness to a Wall Street exec who co-founded a dark pool. The very well-off ones were concerned that any direct financial assistance would be a corrupting influence on the less-well-off- such indulgence would amount to snipping off their bootstraps.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:57 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

Coming out in this week's New Yorker:

The President helped build a hotel in Azerbaijan that appears to be a corrupt operation engineered by oligarchs tied to Iran’s Revolutionary Guard
posted by chris24 at 9:31 PM on March 5, 2017 [25 favorites]

The big five publishers literally met for dinner in a private room at a New York restaurant to discuss price fixing, and took notes.

Nigga, is you takin notes on a criminal fuckin conspiracy? (from The Wire)
posted by iffthen at 9:32 PM on March 5, 2017 [14 favorites]

I'm not sure it's the rich that are the problem, so much as it's that certain pathological personality types are a much bigger problem if they happen also to be rich.

Pathological personality types are rich because they're pathological. No decent person would keep billions, or even millions, of dollars while people go hungry and without healthcare. I would go so far as to say there is something sick about anyone with over a million dollars in personal wealth. No one needs that.
posted by AFABulous at 9:36 PM on March 5, 2017 [7 favorites]

I dunno, I'd keep millions. A million would almost buy me a house in my city.
posted by ryanrs at 9:43 PM on March 5, 2017 [13 favorites]

AFABulous, respectfully, your threshold is too low (that would indict most homeowners in California and many couples with retirement accounts). However I do agree that there are thresholds of wealth beyond which most individuals will not see any increase in happiness or health.
posted by samthemander at 9:45 PM on March 5, 2017 [14 favorites]

Sure, I forgot how fucked the coastal housing markets are. I think you catch my drift though. No one needs three houses and a garage full of Maseratis etc etc.
posted by AFABulous at 9:46 PM on March 5, 2017 [9 favorites]

isn't this a little bit of a derail, for those who read in the morning to catch up with what's happened?
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 9:48 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

I dunno, seems highly relevant to how we got here.
posted by Coventry at 9:51 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

The President helped build a hotel in Azerbaijan that appears to be a corrupt operation engineered by oligarchs tied to Iran’s Revolutionary Guard

Tom Cotton is going to love this!

But seriously, OMG:

- "Ivanka Trump was the most senior Trump Organization official on the Baku project. . . . The Azerbaijani lawyer said, 'Ivanka personally approved everything.'"

- "If parties involved in the Trump Tower Baku project participated in any illegal financial conduct, and if the Trump Organization exerted a degree of control over the project, the company could be vulnerable to criminal prosecution."

- "Wrage pointed out that corrupt government leaders often use their children or their siblings to distance themselves from illicit projects." [subtle, lol]

- "Frederic Bourke, the co-founder of Dooney & Bourke, the handbag company, had invested in a project in which a foreign partner paid bribes to Azerbaijani government officials and their family members. Bourke was sentenced to a year in prison for violating the F.C.P.A.; he appealed the conviction, claiming ignorance of the corruption. Two years later, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit upheld the conviction, saying that, regardless of whether he had known about the bribes, “the testimony at trial demonstrated that Bourke was aware of how pervasive corruption was in Azerbaijan.” The F.C.P.A., they said, also criminalized “conscious avoidance”—a deliberate effort to remain in the dark about any transgressions a foreign partner might be involved in."

- plus about a thousand other even more damning quotes in there.

Wow.
posted by sallybrown at 9:51 PM on March 5, 2017 [65 favorites]

Honestly, I was starting to think the wealth thing had become a bit of a derail, despite being partially responsible myself. It's at least tangentially relevant, but certainly less relevant than, say, the hotel in Azerbaijan.
posted by dirge at 9:54 PM on March 5, 2017

It's a bit of a derail, so as a re-rail, perhaps the question ought to be: why and how and when did the US become so beholden to actual fucker billionaires like the Kochs and Mercers? Why does the healthcare of millions depend upon the grumblings of a few people picked out of Evil Rich Fucker central casting, given that Evil Rich Fucker is a central casting type? That's even before we get to how an unstable bullshit billionaire got the votes of so many people living on $20k a year in tarpaper shacks.
posted by holgate at 9:54 PM on March 5, 2017 [16 favorites]

The photo with the Post story is such a troll, with the tie showing the tape.

It seems like ever since we heard that Trump doesn't like pictures that show his double chins I've seen more unflattering pictures of him on news sites.

With the White House struggling to gain its footing almost two months into Donald Trump's presidency, administration officials are increasingly putting the blame on one person: Reince Priebus.

Yep, he's the problem. Nailed it!
posted by kirkaracha at 9:57 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

We've always had evil fucker billionaires but Citizens United put the nail in the coffin as far as money influencing elections
posted by AFABulous at 9:57 PM on March 5, 2017 [27 favorites]

And the Azerbaijan story taps into what I mentioned way upthread: the residents of endemically corrupt states know what corrupt state business looks like. Globalisation helped the orange menace, because a model that ran into the buffers in New Jersey (pop. ~9m) can be exported to Azerbaijan (pop. ~10m).
posted by holgate at 9:58 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

so as a re-rail, perhaps the question ought to be: why and how and when did the US become so beholden to actual fucker billionaires

That might be less of a re-rail than it is it's own FPP. Military Industrial Complex, Powell memo, Reagan kneecapping anti-trust enforcement, Citizens United. There's a lot to get through there.
posted by dirge at 10:00 PM on March 5, 2017 [6 favorites]

I mean, the Family Business was built in a way that made it easy (with the right kind of Russian financing) to export it to countries that don't rank particularly highly on the Freedom House list. Find the right cronies, send in Approved Daughter, bingo.
posted by holgate at 10:03 PM on March 5, 2017

That might be less of a re-rail than it is it's own FPP. Powell memo, Reagan kneecapping anti-trust enforcement, Citizens United. There's a lot to get through there.

Plus there are the historical roots as far back as the Gilded Age.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:06 PM on March 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

420%?

420‰
posted by The Tensor at 10:08 PM on March 5, 2017 [5 favorites]

For more context on the FCPA: you can take your pick of the very largest American corporations that you might think of as bad actors with scathingly horrible reputations on the Blue - these companies employ tens, sometimes hundreds of upstanding people whose full time job is ensuring compliance with international law and norms as a way to ensure FCPA compliance. They take this deadly seriously. They pay the best law firms in the world to vet their deals against the FCPA and to come in at regular intervals to run checks on their compliance programs. The FCPA is a boon to the US because penalties for violations (even claimed unknowing violations) are in the billions or hundreds of millions of dollars. The Trump Org conduct described in that New Yorker article is just...clinically insane.
posted by sallybrown at 10:09 PM on March 5, 2017 [21 favorites]

Jason Chaffetz
@jasoninthehouse
DHS hearing: Obama Admin gave 9,500 visas to potential terrorists, [...] @realDonaldTrump is fixing this

Chaffetz is among the worst of the worst and needs to go out with the rest of the garbage.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:17 PM on March 5, 2017 [53 favorites]

Well we're all potential terrorists.

Oh.
posted by Yowser at 10:19 PM on March 5, 2017 [12 favorites]

why and how and when did the US become so beholden to actual fucker billionaires like the Kochs and Mercers?

Dark Money: The Hidden History of the Billionaires Behind the Rise of the Radical Right
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 10:20 PM on March 5, 2017 [12 favorites]

Chaffetz is among the worst of the worst and needs to go out with the rest of the garbage.

Certainly not until he's done investigating the Jim Henson company.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:21 PM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

I was about to write a comment on how seriously large companies take FCPA, even instructing bottom-rung software engineers on it. But then I remembered that every large silicon valley company I've worked for, five of them, has been busted for corruption. Most weren't FCPA-style bribery, but still, corruption on a large enough scale to make the front page of the paper.

Maybe they're only training us programmers about corruption, and not the execs?
posted by ryanrs at 10:34 PM on March 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

Not really. Charles Koch was quoted that choosing between Trump and Clinton was like choosing between cancer and a heart attack. They provided little or no support to Trump.

Let's nip this little myth in the bud. The Koch's did not overtly support Trump because they were afraid of another Romney 2012 experience where Karl Rove vaporised a couple hundred million dollars of their and their pals cash with nothing to show for it and then having their name forever tied to the Trump flameout (i.e. the one on Earth-2).

What they did do was pourbetween $400 to $800 million worth of donations into down ticket races instead and grassroots GOP GOTV effort. Those people came to the polls and they pulled the lever for Trump.
posted by PenDevil at 11:00 PM on March 5, 2017 [62 favorites]

At what point does $400 million in Koch money stop being grassroots and start being astroturf?
posted by Yowser at 11:04 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

Military Industrial Complex, Powell memo, Reagan kneecapping anti-trust enforcement, Citizens United. There's a lot to get through there.
posted by dirge

I am a bit surprised that nobody has pulled out the epony card to point out that we have a mefite named dirge whose username is highly appropriate as of late.
posted by futz at 11:18 PM on March 5, 2017

plus about a thousand other even more damning quotes in there

This word "damning." I do not think it means what you think it means. Nothing will come of that.
posted by mrgrimm at 11:41 PM on March 5, 2017

At what point does $400 million in Koch money stop being grassroots and start being astroturf?

13 years ago.
posted by mrgrimm at 11:45 PM on March 5, 2017 [3 favorites]

That New Yorker article about the Baku deal is a hell of a read and it's worth your time. It's 8,000 words and it's basically all factual reporting, with a couple of lawyers speaking briefly about the FCPA -- there's no analysis, it's just all damning, damning, damning facts, one after the next after the next.

The political money quote for me is:

Throughout the Presidential campaign, Trump was in business with someone that his company knew was likely a partner with the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. In a March, 2016, speech before the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, Trump said that his “No. 1 priority is to dismantle the disastrous deal with Iran.” Calling Iran the “biggest sponsor of terrorism around the world,” he promised, “We will work to dismantle that reach—believe me, believe me.” In the speech, Trump lamented that Iran had been allowed to develop new long-range ballistic missiles. According to Iran Watch, an organization that monitors Iran’s military capabilities, much of the technology to make the missiles was provided by Nasr, the company once run by Kamal Darvishi.

posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:48 PM on March 5, 2017 [48 favorites]

Like Rich Hall, I'm just waiting to hear about how the guaranteed plan to wipe out ISIS by 30 days after Trump's inauguration has gone down:

One of Trump’s oft-repeated campaign promises was a “guaranteed” plan to wipe out Islamic State within 30 days of taking office. Understandably, he refused to tell anyone exactly what that plan was. “Everyone will take the idea, run with it, and the people will forget where it came from,” he explained. During the third presidential debate, he tipped his hand slightly: “Whatever happened to the element of surprise, OK? These people have all left. They’ve all left. Douglas MacArthur, George Patton are spinning in their graves at the stupidity of our country.”

I, for one, am willing to believe my president is a man of action. Thus I can only assume that at some point, on or around 20 February of this year, Trump exterminated Isis. Any subsequent media mention of their nefarious activity is “fake news”.

posted by jaduncan at 1:19 AM on March 6, 2017 [13 favorites]

From that Rich Hall link: 'He not only promised to “bomb the shit” out of Isis, he also promised to “take all their oil”.'

The first episode of the podcast "The 45th" made a good case that "take the oil" is Trump's plan to wipe out ISIS. They found audio clips of him saying stuff like (I'm trying to closely paraphrase here) "I didn't want to tell you because I might win, and then they'll be expecting it. But if I don't tell you then everyone says I don't have a plan! So okay, I'll tell you. You've got to take the oil! That's where all their money comes from. I finally told this reporter and he said it's a good plan. I said of course it's a good plan! Take the oil!"

He also said something about the estimated total value of Iraq's oil reserves being conveniently about the same as the US national debt. He thinks taking the oil will defund ISIS and pay off our national debt at the same time. Genius!

(I expect by now someone has sat him down and explained to him the practical issues with this plan -- I don't expect he understands the moral issues -- and we will not hear about his fantastic "plan to defeat ISIS" again.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:41 AM on March 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm morbidly curious over if he wanted the US-[quasi]allied Iraqi government or the Russian-allied Syrians to roll over for that.

Either one is a mixture of horrifyingly and endearingly stupid.
posted by jaduncan at 1:48 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's almost like they've had it driven into them that absolutely anyone can succeed no matter what if they try hard enough, and therefore anyone who isn't even slightly successful obviously is too lazy to try anything.

This relates (for me) to a conversation I was having recently about being disabled, and how when you are disabled everyone wants to constantly tell you what you should be doing to get better. The reason for this is that people absolutely can't STAND feeling helpless and they can't face the idea that they could become disabled and powerless to do anything about it. People want to believe if they live right, they are protected. But it's not true.

I think it's the same thing for poverty as disease. The idea that people can be poor through no fault of their own, regardless of how hard they work or how virtuous they are is terrifying. So people have to construct elaborate false correlations between poverty and virtue to assure themselves they aren't at risk.

Otherwise everything in their lives is pure random chance and to judge from the history of human religion, that's something most people just can't handle. As a matter of fact, there's probably a connection there with the decline in religious faith and the growth of this kind of blaming the unfortunate. If everything is up to God, and his ways are mysterious, then maybe there's a plan for why that person got a horrible disease. And maybe it would be a good idea to help them because maybe God only creates the poor and sick to give people the opportunity of charity. But if you don't believe that, or you believe in the prosperity Gospel BS that God rewards the virtuous in this life, then the reason has to lie with the victim. They must deserve it.
posted by threeturtles at 2:17 AM on March 6, 2017 [68 favorites]

HEY YOU GUYS. Because I'm internalizing all this anxiety from the week, I got up at 4, which is not cool. So, if anyone else is reeling from the recent shitstorm, here are a few ideas.

1. Go the White House website and fill out a survey. Note there are no options to say you didn't like 45's speech.
2. Watch this silly cat after her owner installs a cat door.
3. Watch this freed whale after rescue from a fishing net.
4. Take a few seconds to find something good in the universe and do your own "thank you dance." The shitstorm will be there when you return. We all need to be clear-headed and strong. This is a marathon, not a sprint.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 2:17 AM on March 6, 2017 [47 favorites]

I'm morbidly curious over if he wanted the US-[quasi]allied Iraqi government or the Russian-allied Syrians to roll over for that.

Well, there we more clips where they ask him "What about the Iraqi government" and he says something like "there is no government."

He doesn't mention Syria, only Iraq. He seems to believe we liberated them, at great cost to ourselves, and the least they can do is give us all their oil as a reward. Like the Iraq war was just stupidly selfless of us, but we should at least get the oil.

I'm not able to paraphrase those bits from memory as well. The podcast is really worth a listen, though it takes a while to get going, I think. The stuff at the beginning is all old news for people who read these threads. But the second half or so is, I think, is all about this topic -- what exactly does Trump mean by "take the oil" and how serious is he? Why does he think this is a good idea? Turns out it's something he talked about consistently, over and over and over again in interviews and on twitter, but most of the time people just reacted as if he had something gauche but obviously too ridiculous to be taken seriously, and let it pass.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:31 AM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

That whale got me crying. There is some good in the world after all.

About the billionaires and the ACA. Apart from being the most expensive healthcare system in the world, the US healthcare is also a central part of the wage system (obviously). I don't know if Americans realize how unique this is? Other countries have employer-paid insurances, but they are for extra care, not basic health.
Anyway, I can see how you don't need to be an evil monster to find that eliminating this lever from wage negotiations would lead to chaos, and I can see how employees could be as nervous about it as employers. If you've grown up in a system and never known the alternatives, taking out something that important will cause confusion and distress. More so if you are also a racist shithead of course.
Also, billionaires probably own health related stocks because healthcare is a good investment, and over some time, potentially, the ACA could bring down the value of the health businesses.

That said, the Koch brothers are evil racist shitheads. As are the Mercers and the Trumps.
posted by mumimor at 2:53 AM on March 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

Latinx Trump supporters need to understand that the new regime is not going to differentiate for any reason: Veteran Fighting Deportation After Two Tours In Afghanistan
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:30 AM on March 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

With the White House struggling to gain its footing almost two months into Donald Trump's presidency, administration officials are increasingly putting the blame on one person: Reince Priebus.

Yep, he's the problem. Nailed it!

They say that wisdom comes when you realize the one thing all of your failed relationships have in common is... Reince Priebus.
posted by saturday_morning at 3:50 AM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Pennsylvania) is holding a Facebook Live Town Hall today (Monday) on CBS 3's Facebook page. The time hasn't been announced yet.

If they're concerned about people who aren't really their constituents showing up to confront them, doesn't at least requiring a physical presence at an actual town hall go a long way toward mitigating that? And opening up questions to everyone on Facebook ... not so much?

(As a local news producer, I'm viewing this very cynically and expect management at the station is just going 'woooo, more Likes for our Page!' and hasn't devoted a second of thought to comment moderation beyond 'the web guy can do it.' While the web guy is having a silent panic attack.)
posted by none of these will bring disaster at 3:52 AM on March 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

“So yeah, we know him and he knows us, and you make small talk and you play that game. If you think that means I can’t handle my shit and we’re all Russian agents, go fuck yourself,” said this Trump campaign staffer, now working with the administration.

So, this is totally Stephen Miller, right?
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:25 AM on March 6, 2017 [21 favorites]

Today show videos.

Asked repeatedly by Savannah Guthrie where Trump is getting this info—WH spokesperson Sarah Huckabee Sanders says she hasn't spoken to him about it. “If the president walked across the Potomac, the media would report that he couldn't swim."

Does Trump accept FBI Director Comey's reported denial?

"You know, I don't think he does."

In other news, Trump will have no public events today and there will not be no public press briefing.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:38 AM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

No public briefings and supposedly the new travel ban EO at some point today. Intentional or just a well oiled machine?
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:43 AM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

It turns out that a fine-tuned machine oiled solely with human diarrhea can run for upwards of 45 days.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:48 AM on March 6, 2017 [15 favorites]

Then you need a urine flush to remove the errant corn kernels and bits of gristle.
posted by ian1977 at 4:52 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

yeah, well, we're all waiting for that tape.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:52 AM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

Apparently, they sent Kellyanne out on to Fox this morning. Per a CNN reporter: Asked how Trump knows his phone was tapped, Conway: "He is the president...He has information and intelligence that the rest of us do not."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:56 AM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Info and intelligence that quite literally no one else does. Because he's hallucinating.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:01 AM on March 6, 2017 [32 favorites]

Old topic but all the older pop culture that has been tainted by trumps presence in movies and tv shows... someone should go all George Lucas on his ass and digitally replace Trump with another actor and then market them as 'Home Alone: FTFY'
posted by ian1977 at 5:02 AM on March 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

Trump's 21st century Damnatio Memoriae should include his replacement in all film with a digital Jar Jar. Trade one racist, inhuman cartoon for another. Meesa America Great Again.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:09 AM on March 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

Travel ban will be signed today, effective March 16. Iraq is not on the list anymore.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:25 AM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

Krugman: "the broader Republican quagmire — the party’s failure so far to make significant progress toward any of its policy promises — isn’t just about Mr. Trump’s inadequacies. The whole party, it turns out, has been faking it for years. Its leaders’ rhetoric was empty; they have no idea how to turn their slogans into actual legislation, because they’ve never bothered to understand how anything important works."
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:25 AM on March 6, 2017 [79 favorites]

Surely the problem was the list itself, not the fact that Iraq was on it?
posted by Grangousier at 5:27 AM on March 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

OnceUponATime: From that Rich Hall link: 'He not only promised to “bomb the shit” out of Isis, he also promised to “take all their oil”.'

And where have I hear that before? Ah yes, the classic "Nuke Their Ass, Take Their Gas" strategy advocated by, among others, noted Idaho nutbar perennial fringe candidate Harley D. Brown.
posted by hangashore at 5:29 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Apparently, they sent Kellyanne out on to Fox this morning. Per a CNN reporter: Asked how Trump knows his phone was tapped, Conway: "He is the president...He has information and intelligence that the rest of us do not."

Due to his direct link to wikileaks and Russia?
posted by srboisvert at 5:37 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Surely the problem was the list itself, not the fact that Iraq was on it?

Yes but removing Iraq from the list removes the "BUT THEY HELPED THE US MILITARY" from the list of complaints. Divides and conquers the detractors.
posted by Talez at 5:37 AM on March 6, 2017 [16 favorites]

I am feeling so very disheartened.

I would like to get off this ride now and onto one that includes a functional government not hellbent on making me miserable.

I just feel so frustrated over the reaction to gutting the funding for the EPA. Especially in regards to the Great Lakes losing 90-ish% of restoration funds. So many people on the internet are like "Good going Michigan. You're the one who voted for this." and I just want to scream and jump up and down that I, and many of us, didn't vote for him.. but that edges into #notEveryMichigander. I just feel sad and low on energy.
posted by INFJ at 5:40 AM on March 6, 2017 [39 favorites]

Another anecdote from a northern neighbour as you all fight and resist down south. One of my friends, a Canadian citizen, born in Canada, holding a Canadian passport was held at the land border for 6 hours yesterday, fingerprinted and refused entry to the USA. She was going for a spa day.

The border guard would not explain why she was denied entry but told her she'd "been Trumped". My friend has plans to go to Miami for a concert (tickets already bought) later this month. They said she'd need to go to Ottawa to apply for a visa. She was planning her bachelorette later this year in Miami as well.

My family had already cancelled a trip to Washington DC. I don't see us crossing the border anytime soon.
posted by Cuke at 5:42 AM on March 6, 2017 [97 favorites]

Yes but removing Iraq from the list removes the "BUT THEY HELPED THE US MILITARY" from the list of complaints. Divides and conquers the detractors.

Yeah, it's impossible to overstate how much pushback he was getting from veterans on this one, and even some Trumpkins were starting to get all "He must not have meant it."
posted by corb at 5:43 AM on March 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

The border guard would not explain why she was denied entry but told her she'd "been Trumped".

Seriously, fuck this noise.
posted by box at 5:47 AM on March 6, 2017 [56 favorites]

The longer they delay the E.O. signing, the longer they delay the Court's TRO preventing implementation, and the longer they delay the temper tantrum and threats.
posted by mikelieman at 5:47 AM on March 6, 2017

Yes but removing Iraq from the list removes the "BUT THEY HELPED THE US MILITARY" from the list of complaints. Divides and conquers the detractors.

Good thing we don't have any ongoing military operations in any other countries where we might need translators and local assistance.
posted by melissasaurus at 5:48 AM on March 6, 2017 [32 favorites]

Special pleading for countries we destroyed shows the Republican motive is ethnic cleansing, not national security.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:48 AM on March 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

Jason Chaffetz
@jasoninthehouse
DHS hearing: Obama Admin gave 9,500 visas to potential terrorists, [...] @realDonaldTrump is fixing this

I am slightly swarthy in the summer, have black hair, a beard and a rather pronounced nose. I got a visa from the Obama admin. How do I find out if I am one of the 9500?
posted by srboisvert at 5:49 AM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

Cuke: We had a Canadian gentleman who was suppose to start working at my place of employment last week. He was going to commute across the border everyday. This man happens to be brown. Unfortunately they won't let him cross at the border, so he doesn't have a job.

I feel so bad for him. I hope he didn't quit his old job before taking this one.

It's all sorts of fucked up in ways that I can't even articulate.
posted by INFJ at 5:50 AM on March 6, 2017 [41 favorites]

So "bad dudes" trying to enter the country have a week and a half before the Executive Action goes into effect to come and go as they please? The horribly managed, fishing-net-porous borders will stay that way for 10 more days? Because we don't ever want to ruin the "element of surprise" by announcing our intentions when fighting terror?

Do I have that right, Mister I-Will-Stop-Terrorism-On-Day-One-Pretend-President?
posted by Rykey at 5:53 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Yes but removing Iraq from the list removes the "BUT THEY HELPED THE US MILITARY" from the list of complaints. Divides and conquers the detractors.

My FB friends list is pretty much free of Trumpists -- even the few full-on Republicans / conservatives who are still talking to me will stipulate that he's not a True Republican when we discuss his latest attack on the foundations of the republic. The exceptions to that are military buddies. They all know I'm a godless liberal, and you really have to work at it to break those bonds. So I get a fair amount of pushback even when I talk about the most egregious crap coming out of Mar-a-Lago North.

Except when I pointed out that the first two people who got caught by Travel Ban Classic were Iraqi terps. No pushback on that. Even some "Hm, yeah, I guess that's a bad thing." from the Trumpiest Trumpists, many still on active duty.

So yeah, this is a sop to the "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" bloc, as lazy and pointless as it is.
posted by Etrigan at 5:56 AM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

Also,

The border guard would not explain why she was denied entry but told her she'd "been Trumped"

Holy shit, that is fucking hardcore.
posted by Rykey at 5:56 AM on March 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

I am slightly swarthy in the summer, have black hair, a beard and a rather pronounced nose. I got a visa from the Obama admin. How do I find out if I am one of the 9500?

Check whether you're Muslim.
posted by Etrigan at 5:57 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

INFJ these incidents need to be recorded and an on-going list given to both your state reps including the Governor and your Federal reps. Are you a part of any resistance groups because the longer and more detailed the list the better. This not only creates ill will with our Northern neighbor, it's also going to have a serious economic impact on your state.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:57 AM on March 6, 2017 [16 favorites]

Meanwhile, our county Democratic Committee held its endorsement vote yesterday.

Result? Same old fucking same old. These people are unbelievable. It's a good thing that mostly what we're voting on this year is small potatoes, and that the incumbent mayor is a good dude and pretty progressive already.

There's a single family here that has one judge, two state assemblymen and one state Senator. All dudes, all white, all DINOs, none of whom put any effort into running because they're Democrats (and I'm pretty sure this is why they are Democrats) and will run unopposed and the primary is the election that counts. Fuck every last one of them.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:58 AM on March 6, 2017 [17 favorites]

>>Yes but removing Iraq from the list removes the "BUT THEY HELPED THE US MILITARY" from the list of complaints. Divides and conquers the detractors.

>>Yeah, it's impossible to overstate how much pushback he was getting from veterans on this one, and even some Trumpkins were starting to get all "He must not have meant it."

I was really surprised (and thankful) he didn't include Afghanistan in the ban, to be honest.

Also at least in Virginia we have had zero arrivals from Yemen or Libya ever, so I think including them in the refugee ban was a misinformation tactic to create fear of those countries.

In a recent conference call with the Dept of Health and Human Services, they pretty much assured us the Special Immigrant Visa program will remain untouched, so if they push for a new ban that affects Iraqis, it will be refugee Iraqis, who are mostly widows, the elderly and children.

Plus, if Iraq is removed from the ban, and if other states do not receive refugees from Yemen or Libya (as far as I know they do not), then we still have to worry about Syria, Iran, Sudan, and Somalia. All of these countries have massive refugee populations who are in increasing danger as we speak.

I don't know why I'm saying this, I have this need to frantically keep up with the list.

And I know dividing and conquering is terrible, but Iraqis really need to get the hell out of there as soon as possible, so I get that we want them all out of danger but at the same time I am happy that at least some will make it. This is the horrible kind of reasoning everyone in resettlement is familiar with. We are used to the fact that for every person who makes it here there are 99 who will not. Trump decreased those chances infinitely with his stupid ban.
posted by Tarumba at 6:01 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

I was really surprised (and thankful) he didn't include Afghanistan in the ban, to be honest.

He can't spell it.

After the events of the weekend, I am not even fucking kidding when I talk about how flat-out stupid he is.
posted by Etrigan at 6:04 AM on March 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

My governor probably sticks his fingers in his ears and go "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU THE WATER IN FLINT IS FINE~"

But point heard, Secret Life of Gravy. I'll poke around who to pass the information on to.
posted by INFJ at 6:04 AM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

We've always had evil fucker billionaires but Citizens United put the nail in the coffin as far as money influencing election

It also left the door wide open for foreign money to enter the electoral cycle as well because of the opacity of foreign money movement. Sheldon Adelson who is perhaps the largest Republican donor generates the majority of his wealth via Chinese casinos. It would be incredibly simple for China or any other foreign national to launder donations through Adelson's casinos.

But even citizen's united doesn't really matter because the FEC is a toothless agency thanks to an informal bipartisan non-enforcement consensus/deadlock.
posted by srboisvert at 6:11 AM on March 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

It would be incredibly simple for China or any other foreign national to launder donations through Adelson's casinos.

Calling it "laundering" does a disservice to the hardworking people who actually launder money -- all you have to do to launder money through a casino is buy a bunch of chips and never use them.
posted by Etrigan at 6:14 AM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

Another anecdote from a northern neighbour as you all fight and resist down south.

Cuke, both of those anecdotes are insane. Wow.

I don't even know how a Canadian would apply for a tourist visa, since Canadian citizens don't need a fucking visa to enter the US for short-term tourism. I imagine the State Department would just say, "haha friend, why are you doing this application?"

Plus, it seems like it would be legitimately suspicious if a Canadian presented a formal visa at the Rainbow Bridge on a day trip to Buffalo.

The Border Patrol is out of control, just like ICE.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:22 AM on March 6, 2017 [28 favorites]

Okay, assuming Travel Ban II: Electric Boog-a-loo gets signed today, how long do we expect it to last? There have been enough leaks about the motive not being security, along with the delay apparently shooting that argument in the foot as well.
posted by MattWPBS at 6:23 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

From emjaybee upthread:

Here in redstateistan, we inducted 56 new Dem precinct chairs yesterday (including me) and the energy level and determination was very high.

At Doggett's town hall yesterday, after the congressman spoke, we stood up and cheered on the volunteers who had made the town hall happen. We also took a moment to appreciate every precinct chair in the room, and the gymnasium shook with the roars of admiration and thanks. Emjaybee, those cheers were for you too, and I know you're not local to me but I want you to know they were there. If I can later, I'll go look for recordings of the town hall so you can see.

Thank you for your work!
posted by sciatrix at 6:29 AM on March 6, 2017 [37 favorites]

Okay, assuming Travel Ban II: Electric Boog-a-loo gets signed today, how long do we expect it to last?

I would imagine that it'll get the same treatment as the last, with a pretty swift restraining order from a federal judge. Unless it ends up being some fairly stern-sounding but practically vague and toothless directive "to protect the nation's borders as strictly as possible within existing law", a la the EO for the ACA.

Or it might have the same ontological status as the Republican Repeal & Replace bill which is currently residing in a mythical closet underneath the House chamber.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:30 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Chaffetz: I've seen no evidence Obama ordered wiretap of Trump

“I learned a long time ago, I'm going to keep my eyes wide open,” Chaffetz (R-Utah) said on “CBS This Morning.” “You never know when you turn a corner what you may or may not see. But thus far I have not seen anything directly that would support what the president has said.”

Thanks. Now go fuck yourself.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:31 AM on March 6, 2017 [34 favorites]

The ACLU is standing by just waiting for the new EO to drop, they'll be back in court hours after it's signed, and I can't see how the "improvements" change anything, they've actually weakened their primary argument that it's for national security, and even more dumbass statements in the media since the first time point to a racist intent.

The bigger long term problem, assuming the new EO is struck down, is out of control border enforcement outside of the official policy statements, as seen right in this thread. Trump has signaled CPB now has his implicit endorsement to deny random people entry based on skin color, and I don't know how you put that back in the bottle. The executive has enough authority at the border that it's always going to be easy to claim some other reason, but CBP and everyone else knows the directive comes from the top, and no discipline will be coming. And that's apart from the new Trail of Tears being created across the country by unfettered ICE raids.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:33 AM on March 6, 2017 [49 favorites]

NBC news reported that DJT's Obamacare replacement plan is also supposed to be rolled out today. I'm surprised because I didn't think they were even close to completion but maybe they want to overwhelm us and thereby dilute the scrutiny of both the ban and the replacement plan.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:35 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

SCOTUS [pdf of order list] this morning vacated and remanded Gavin Grimm's case back to the 4th circuit for reconsideration in light of the admin's new guidance issued two weeks ago. Hugely disappointing, if not totally unsurprising.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:38 AM on March 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

Do we really think that taking Iraq off the list means Iraqi people will get treated any better by ICE/CBP? They are out of control and clearly feel there's no consequences for whatever they do. They're detaining French historians, Australian authors, and lots of other people never mentioned on the original EO, for any reason or none.

If I were Iraqi I would not feel any safer.
posted by emjaybee at 6:40 AM on March 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

That shit is basically in Narnia by now
posted by schadenfrau at 6:42 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

A tragicomedy in three a̶c̶t̶s̶ tweets:

@politicoalex
Senior WH aides say Reince's 8 am, cable news-driven staff meeting is a waste of time. "A faux meeting," one says. 'Knives are out for Reince'

@davidfrum Retweeted Alex Isenstadt
It’s all like Veep, if Veep were a tragedy.

@timothycsimons Retweeted David Frum
Don't drag us into this we'd never be this incompetent.

---

Timothy Simons plays Jonah Ryan on Veep.
posted by chris24 at 6:47 AM on March 6, 2017 [46 favorites]

I don't even know how a Canadian would apply for a tourist visa, since Canadian citizens don't need a fucking visa to enter the US for short-term tourism. I imagine the State Department would just say, "haha friend, why are you doing this application?"

Hi. Person who comes from a VWP program country who used a B-2 visa to get into the US initially. The consulate doesn't even blink. People have their reasons. Mine was that I wanted to stay more than 90 days and that B-2 visa holders can't be treated (entirely) like shit by the CBP. If you have a B-2 and get denied entry before removal you can go in front of an immigration judge who can go "why the fuck is this petty power trip bullshit in my courtroom?". You even get to have a lawyer represent you who can often argue that the border official is full of shit much more articulately than you can. You can't do that on VWP. What the border official says is final.

My plan originally was to B-2 in, find a job, fly out, E-3 back in. Couldn't find a job so I ended up B-2 in, got married after 5 months, AoS to LPR.
posted by Talez at 6:51 AM on March 6, 2017 [15 favorites]

Special pleading for countries we destroyed shows the Republican motive is ethnic cleansing, not national security.

but special pleading for countries where Trump does business shows that the Republican motive is incoherent.

the EO is now 'no muslims, except iraqis and afghans and people from countries rich enough to host a trump hotel, oh and fucking indonesia and malaysia and most of north africa and oh fuck it"

it would be equally coherent if it was just a piece of paper with "NO BAD A-RABS" written on it in crayon.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:53 AM on March 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

DHS will issue twice a year reports counting and detailing violence against women, including honor killings, by foreign nationals
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:55 AM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

DHS will issue twice a year reports counting and detailing violence against women

huh, that's a weird thing for DHS to do but it's good that they're bringing attention to the issue of…

, including honor killings, by foreign nationals

oh just fuck you guys forever
posted by murphy slaw at 6:58 AM on March 6, 2017 [86 favorites]

To go along with my earlier post about polls showing even Republicans want the Russian ties investigated, the new CNN poll out today shows two thirds of Americans want a special prosecutor to investigate, with 47% of Republicans and 43% of Trump supporters agreeing.

And it also shows that the speech made no difference in his approval. Seems the only people fooled by the speech were pundits. (Hi Van!)
posted by chris24 at 6:59 AM on March 6, 2017 [41 favorites]

Finally, I got through that great Newyorker article. It underlines the fact that while pee-tapes are more fun, there are probably tons of business-related documents out there that compromise Trump.
What people should know is how corruption and money laundering is tied to terror. I think a lot of Trumpists will argue that it doesn't matter Trump is corrupt because all politicians are corrupt. But the same people will hesitate when if they learn that Trump has been helping finance terror in Israel and state-terror in Syria.
posted by mumimor at 7:00 AM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

Just Security: Trump Administration Fact Sheets on New Executive Order Banning Travel to the US

From one of the fact sheets:

Specifically, in coordination with the Department of Justice, DHS will make available to the public information regarding the number of foreign nationals who have been charged with terrorism-related offenses while in the United States; convicted of terrorism-related offenses while in the United States; removed from the United States based on terrorism-related activity, affiliation, or material support to a terrorism-related organization, or any other national-security reasons; and information regarding the number and types of acts of gender-based violence against women, including so-called “honor killings,” in the United States by foreign nationals

How about, instead, we report the number of acts of gender-based violence against women in the United States by members of the Trump administration?
posted by melissasaurus at 7:00 AM on March 6, 2017 [85 favorites]

MetaFilter: a mixture of horrifyingly and endearingly stupid.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:04 AM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm gonna say this periodically, but thank all of you for keeping me sane in the midst of this babyhanded, bigoted, demented fever dream.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:07 AM on March 6, 2017 [37 favorites]

Conway: "He is the president...He has information and intelligence that the rest of us do not."

What, Breitbart.com has gone paywall now?
posted by JackFlash at 7:08 AM on March 6, 2017 [32 favorites]

But the same people will hesitate when if they learn that Trump has been helping finance terror in Israel and state-terror in Syria.

Doubtful.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:09 AM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

the number and types of acts of gender-based violence against women, including so-called “honor killings,” in the United States by foreign nationals

So this means any woman from any of these Foreign countries who applies for refugee status to flee from gender-based violence or oppression gets it, no delays, no questions. One must assume.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:10 AM on March 6, 2017 [28 favorites]

I am slightly swarthy in the summer, have black hair, a beard and a rather pronounced nose. I got a visa from the Obama admin. How do I find out if I am one of the 9500?

"Swarthy?" That's a question that answers itself.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:10 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Like Rich Hall, I'm just waiting to hear about how the guaranteed plan to wipe out ISIS by 30 days after Trump's inauguration has gone down

So logically, Lauer’s question was, “So, is the plan you’ve been hiding this whole time asking someone else for their plan?”

Trump simply offered, “No. But when I do come up with a plan that I like, and that perhaps agrees with mine — or maybe doesn’t — I may love what the generals come back with — ”

“But you have your own plan?” Lauer sought to clarify.

“I have a plan, but I don’t wanna be, look — I have a very substantial chance of winning,” he stammered...

posted by kirkaracha at 7:13 AM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

Rep. Adam Schiff: We must accept possibility that @POTUS does not know fact from fiction, right from wrong. That wild claims are not strategic, but worse.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:15 AM on March 6, 2017 [72 favorites]

The border guard would not explain why she was denied entry but told her she'd "been Trumped".

CBP/ICE Unions Joint Press Release [emphasis added]:

As representatives of the nation’s frontline immigration officers and agents responsible for enforcing our laws and protecting our borders, we fully support and appreciate President Trump’s swift and decisive action to keep the American people safe and allow law enforcement to do its job. We applaud the three executive orders he has issued to date, and are confident they will make America safer and more prosperous. Morale amongst our agents and officers has increased exponentially since the signing of the orders.

The men and women of ICE and Border Patrol will work tirelessly to keep criminals, terrorists, and public safety threats out of this country, which remains the number one target in the world – and President Trump’s actions now empower us to fulfill this life saving mission, and it will indeed save thousands of lives and billions of dollars.

WWNY [3/2]: ICE's Acting Director Grants First One-on-One TV Interview

Houston Chronicle [3/3]: Newly unfettered, Houston immigration agents happier with jobs

Philadelphia Inquirer (editorial) [2/27]: Just following orders? Trump's not-so-secret police go wild

HuffPo [2/25]: Santa Cruz Police Accuse Homeland Security Of Lying To Cover Up Immigrant Sweep

NYT [2/25]: Immigration Agents Discover New Freedom to Deport Under Trump

SCPR [2/23]: LA city attorney asks ICE agents to stop saying they are police

New Yorker [2/17]: The Border Patrol was Primed for President Trump

Baltimore Sun (Editorial) [2/6]: Ordinary Americans carried out inhumane acts for Trump

(apologies if some of these have been linked previously.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:15 AM on March 6, 2017 [76 favorites]

y'know i was enjoying trump's inevitable spiral into madness a lot more when he wasn't president of the united states
posted by murphy slaw at 7:16 AM on March 6, 2017 [29 favorites]

Zinke rode to work on our new Consul.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:19 AM on March 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

I am discovering a new love of David Frum.

@davidfrum The Deep State, otherwise known as "uniforms who guard you while you sleep"

posted by corb at 7:20 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Per Mark Knoller, CBS White House Correspondent, there will be no TV cameras at today's daily briefing. (???!!!???)
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:23 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Per Mark Knoller, CBS White House Correspondent, there will be no TV cameras at today's daily briefing. (???!!!???)

There is no briefing today. They are doing a gaggle, similar to the one that started that huge dumpster fire a week ago Friday. Time will tell who will be invited to the gaggle.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:24 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Will there be story time?
posted by thelonius at 7:26 AM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Every day is story time.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:27 AM on March 6, 2017 [13 favorites]

Breaking via WaPo: New executive order bans travelers from six Muslim-majority countries applying for visas

President Trump is preparing to sign a new executive order Monday that White House officials hope can withstand legal scrutiny that will ban travelers from six majority-Muslim nations who did not obtain a visa before Jan 27 from entering the United States for 90 days, according to a fact sheet the administration sent to Congress.

In addition, the nation’s refugee program will be suspended for 120 days, and it will not accept more than 50,000 refugees in a year, down from the 110,000 accepted last year by the Obama administration.

The order, which is to go into effect March 16, represents an attempt by the Trump administration to tighten security requirements for travelers from nations that officials said represent a terrorism threat.

posted by ZeusHumms at 7:27 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

There is no briefing today. They are doing a gaggle, similar to the one that started that huge dumpster fire a week ago Friday.

You really need to be more specific than "that one dumpster fire" with this administration.
posted by deludingmyself at 7:29 AM on March 6, 2017 [53 favorites]

The order, which is to go into effect March 16, represents an attempt by the Trump administration to tighten security requirements for travelers from nations that officials said represent a terrorism threat.

They have to say "threat" because they can't point to any actual terrorism by people who would be affected.
posted by Etrigan at 7:29 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

@davidfrum The Deep State, otherwise known as "uniforms who guard you while you sleep"

I think that's whatever the current incarnation of Blackwater is now.
posted by Artw at 7:35 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

The first State Dept. briefing under Tillerson was postponed again today—now taking place tomorrow.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:40 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Tillerson is going to do work? Don't they understand that he is very rich?
posted by Artw at 7:42 AM on March 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

I think Tillerson's burrowed deep into the cool earth and is mummifying into a dormant state under a crusty shell of mucous. No, wait, I'm thinking of a lungfish. No, wait, I'm thinking of Tillerson.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:42 AM on March 6, 2017 [32 favorites]

From BBC's Africa Security Correspondent:

@Tomi_Oladipo
Nigeria advises against non-urgent travel to the US after multiple cases of Nigerians with valid US visas denied entry

#Nigeria govt says reported cases involved people being turned back and their visas cancelled with no reason given
posted by chris24 at 7:45 AM on March 6, 2017 [38 favorites]

So this means any woman from any of these Foreign countries who applies for refugee status to flee from gender-based violence or oppression gets it, no delays, no questions. One must assume.

"...m'Yeah, about that, hmmm... Thing is, see..."
posted by Rykey at 7:47 AM on March 6, 2017

And it also shows that the speech made no difference in his approval. Seems the only people fooled by the speech were pundits. (Hi Van!)

Just once I'd like to see the cable press use some of the colorful language they're allowed to say on cable. Maybe I should try and trick my way into a punditry position just so that someone can say it.
posted by Talez at 7:48 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

U.S. Agents Detain Afghan Family With Visas At LAX, Hold Them For Days The father, mother and three small children were granted Special Immigrant Visas because family members risked their lives to defend the U.S. government overseas.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:48 AM on March 6, 2017 [52 favorites]

It underlines the fact that while pee-tapes are more fun, there are probably tons of business-related documents out there that compromise Trump.

I've argued something similar, because the timelines work out just fine without requiring collusion between Trump and the Russians.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:53 AM on March 6, 2017

If you want to get pissed at the media even more, this deep dive study of election coverage by Columbia Journalism Review will do the trick.

Study: Breitbart-led right-wing media ecosystem altered broader media agenda

THE 2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION SHOOK the foundations of American politics. Media reports immediately looked for external disruption to explain the unanticipated victory—with theories ranging from Russian hacking to “fake news.”

We have a less exotic, but perhaps more disconcerting explanation: Our own study of over 1.25 million stories published online between April 1, 2015 and Election Day shows that a right-wing media network anchored around Breitbart developed as a distinct and insulated media system, using social media as a backbone to transmit a hyper-partisan perspective to the world. This pro-Trump media sphere appears to have not only successfully set the agenda for the conservative media sphere, but also strongly influenced the broader media agenda, in particular coverage of Hillary Clinton. (my emphasis)

posted by chris24 at 8:00 AM on March 6, 2017 [36 favorites]

Emma Brown: GOP bill could dismantle one of nation’s most robust school desegregation efforts

“This is a bill that will resegregate our schools, taking us back to the ’60s and ’70s,” said Chris Kolb, a graduate of Jefferson schools and a member of the county school board, which opposes the measure. “This will be the death of integration.”
[...]
State Rep. Kevin D. Bratcher (R), sponsor of the bill, said it aims to bring common sense to a system that is unfair to children who can’t get into schools around the corner or across the street from where they live. Bratcher, who is white and represents part of Jefferson County, said he is sensitive to concerns about resegregation.

“But we have to look at what we’re giving up for desegregation,” he said. It’s harder for children in faraway schools to participate in extracurricular activities, he said, and for their parents to make it to PTA meetings and teacher conferences. What’s more, he said, busing costs student time and taxpayer money that could be better spent.

Bratcher cited his own experience in a county high school in the 1970s, when he was forced to leave his neighborhood and take a bus to a historically black school 45 minutes away. “Sending a child to a school just right down the street is a powerful benefit,” he said.

Many in Louisville, a Democratic stronghold, chafe at the notion that Republicans — known as the party of local control — want to override the wishes of local officials. Not only does the school board support desegregation via busing, but voters in board elections also have consistently rejected candidates who pledged a return to neighborhood schools.

“Local control as a principle goes out the window at convenience,” said Raoul Cunningham, president of the NAACP’s Louisville chapter.

posted by zombieflanders at 8:03 AM on March 6, 2017 [19 favorites]

>Nigerians being turned around.

I'm sure it has everything to do with Islam and nothing to do with anti-blackness.
posted by constantinescharity at 8:03 AM on March 6, 2017

Emma Brown: GOP bill could dismantle one of nation’s most robust school desegregation efforts

Next up: Bringing back housing covenants through the back door by allowing neighbourhood vetos of incoming residents.
posted by Talez at 8:08 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Gowdy: No evidence of Trump's wiretapping claim

Republican Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.) said Monday he had not seen any evidence that the Obama administration wiretapped Trump Tower and the Trump administration would have evidence if this surveillance did occur.

“I don't think the FBI is the Obama team and I don't think the men and women who are career prosecutors at DOJ belong to any team other than a blindfolded woman holding a pair of scales,” Gowdy said.

When Gowdy's not on board with your horseshit, I think you're in trouble.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:10 AM on March 6, 2017 [57 favorites]

I was not fucking expecting Trey Gowdy to look so much like an older, unreformed Draco Malfoy.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:11 AM on March 6, 2017 [16 favorites]

Yeah put the soul of a confederate plantation owner in an aged malfoy and you're getting close.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:12 AM on March 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

"White House Spokesperson: Trump Doesn't Believe Comey Denial On Wiretapping Claim"

Calling Comey a liar isn't going to go down well. Trump really is burning his bridges. Just a few weeks ago Trump literally blew an air kiss to Comey, apparently thanking him for his election victory. Now Comey's a liar.

It must be terrifying to work in the administration. You never know from one moment to the next how the erratic moods of the abuser in chief will affect you.
posted by JackFlash at 8:15 AM on March 6, 2017 [20 favorites]

The cost to taxpayers of protecting Trump's kids on overseas business trips (CBS News, Feb. 27, 2017)

By Wednesday, Eric Trump will have gone to four countries on Trump company business since January 1st, each with Secret Service agents in tow.

In early January, it was a trip to Uruguay for a glitzy party to promote a new property, with a reported $100,000 in hotel bills for Secret Service and other U.S. government personnel.

Then just a few weeks after the inauguration, he flew to the Dominican Republic -- but not before Secret Service agents first went for a routine advance planning trip.

Within weeks, Eric and his brother Donald Jr. flew to Dubai for the gala opening of another Trump property.

And Tuesday night night, it’s Vancouver’s turn: a new Trump hotel that will be the city’s second-largest skyscraper. Both brothers are expected to attend, and their Secret Service protection goes with them.

The Secret Service won’t say how much all those trips cost the agency, but taxpayers are footing the bills.

The law requires protection for the president, vice president and first lady, but Secret Service coverage for adult children is optional; they could decline it. Ronald Reagan’s son Ron Reagan eventually did just that.

These Days, Business Travel By Trump's Sons Is Costly And Complicated (NPR, March 6, 2017)

Robert Gordon, a law professor at Stanford University who specializes in legal history and ethics, doesn't dispute the need for Secret Service protection of the president's family, but he says Trump's sons should start paying for it themselves if they're using it while on private business.

"Given that this is supplied to them free by the government, shouldn't they exercise a little common sense and restraint in how far they use this perk?" he says.

Plus, the image of having a squad of official security personnel surrounding you at meetings makes you look like a real boss.

Like there's anyone who's taking meetings with the Trump Boys who doesn't know who they're really talking to.
posted by Etrigan at 8:25 AM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

If Trump was smart, he'd have a lawyer with intelligence experience shadowing him everywhere and parsing his words before he said them on the record or wrote them down. Unfortunately for him, he can't trust anyone with that capacity, or even realize why he needs it.
posted by diogenes at 8:25 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Betsy Woodruff‏ @woodruffbets Sec. Kelly, Sec. Tillerson, and AG Sessions will deliver remarks on the new travel ban at 11:30 today. They won't take questions

Jennifer Jacobs‏ @JenniferJJacobs Trump has signed the new executive order on travel from six Muslim-majority countries, per @margarettalev.
posted by anastasiav at 8:27 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Calling Comey a liar isn't going to go down well. Trump really is burning his bridges. Just a few weeks ago Trump literally blew an air kiss to Comey, apparently thanking him for his election victory. Now Comey's a liar.

Watching Comey beg the Sessions DOJ to bail him out from under Trump's claims is darkly hilarious. Why doesn't Comey just issue a public statement denying Trump wiretap claims on his own? It can't be because he doesn't comment on active investigations. Comey's breaking of established protocol on the Clinton emails compromised his every future action.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:28 AM on March 6, 2017 [30 favorites]

More reporting from yesterday's town hall. Mr. Doggett notably has been pushing hard among other House democrats, especially on the Ways and Means committee, to force a look at Trump's tax returns and let us know that if he can think of a way to tie any executive order Mr. Trump makes to a demand for the tax returns he will do so. He encouraged us all to resist in any way we can and to go out and talk to our neighbors and make as much headway as we can.

I continue to love him. He is the single best argument against Congressional term limits that I can muster.

Anyway, here's the full recording of the Rep's remarks. A few specific, shorter points folks here might like: Doggett's intro remarks starting at about 8:25 are a lovely example of a Democrat with a spine talking about some of the specific things he's doing to try to hold this line. My partner and I both were among the folks who asked him questions to start with; that starts right at 34:06. (I'm in blue, not purple.) I rambled on a bit and wound up saying something a little different than I first intended to; Tay, meanwhile, was fucking on point with their question. (Also, fucking hell I'm nasal. Wince.) Having a hard time finding recordings of the bits of the rally that happened outside the Congressman's portion.

I've also been watching the budding races on the ground and keeping an eye out for who is clearly building solid campaigns for House Representative runs in Texas. So far, Jana Lynn Sanchez and Erin Zwiener are the two people I watch most closely, and I fucking well hope they get funding to match; both are women who are a) clearly pretty kickass and b) leveraging social media brilliantly to build support well ahead of the deadline.

Sanchez is running in district 6, which is enormous and rural, just short of Dallas Ft Worth--and which has been held by a Republican, now a Tea Party caucus member, since 1985. She's smart and tough and she's got charisma, though, and I think she's got a good chance of gaining some traction if she can get the funding to go out and do things like hit up the local fairs and get boots on the ground in her community. She's very savvy, also, about spinning progressive party values to appeal to conservative voters who haven't seen Dems give a shit about them in, as I said, decades--and I suspect she's got a great idea how to grab voters who just wanted a change and didn't care how badly Trump fucked us over so that she can funnel them towards more progressive platforms. She's already hitting the ground running, too.

Erin Zwiener is a bit younger, and right now I think she is focusing for a few months on making a name for herself as a local activist and organizer before she spends some more time building her brand as a candidate. She's running in TX-25, which is one of Austin's districts, currently represented by Republican Roger Williams. (Among other things, she is happily spearheading a bunch of initiatives designed to make Williams look like the coward afraid of talking to people that he is right now.) This is a district that heavily carved into Lloyd Doggett's old territory in an effort to force him to retire in 2013, and in fact he actually referred a bit snidely to Williams in his own town hall the other day--there's a lot of enthusiasm and extreme anger in Austin right now, and although the district is heavily weighted by Fort Worth I think that Ms Zwiener has a pretty good idea on how to leverage that anger behind her in a local run. She's been up to her neck in organizing--googling her looking for a campaign piece turned up a number of local articles on her work--since the Presidential election and she's a lady I really quite like on social media; we're becoming actual friends along with a few mutual friends.

I'm in TX-35 and like I said, my job is to keep Mr. Doggett right the fuck where he is right now, so letting people in Texas know about the candidates I see building up for 2018 is what I'm doing instead to try to help get some new blood in the House.
posted by sciatrix at 8:29 AM on March 6, 2017 [36 favorites]

Chris Edelson at MarketWatch says that the implications of Trump's wiretapping accusations are much more serious than anyone is willing to admit:

America cannot have a president who believes it is appropriate to suggest his predecessor engaged in criminal wrongdoing without presenting evidence to support such claims. A U.S. president wields immense power, including the authority to order nuclear strikes. What happens if Trump reads a Breitbart article which leads him to conclude incorrectly that military action is necessary?

If an independent investigation concludes that Trump’s charges were made recklessly and without evidence, then it would be appropriate for the U.S. government to invoke the Constitution’s 25th Amendment, which allows the vice president and a majority of the cabinet (or some other body designated by Congress) to declare in writing that the president is “unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office.”

posted by murphy slaw at 8:30 AM on March 6, 2017 [101 favorites]

Imagine being completely overwhelmed and over your head, and thinking that Breitbart was the best place for answers and guidance on how to proceed.
posted by diogenes at 8:30 AM on March 6, 2017 [24 favorites]

That New Yorker piece shows how Approved Daughter is a chip off the shitty old block, micromanaging the details of the Baku hotel in a way that shows it's not some generic brand licensing deal: if you're spending enough time on the project to pick out the panelling, then you have enough time to check it's not being built with dirty money.

In other developing-world corruption news: more glad-handing with the members at Mar-a-payola.
posted by holgate at 8:32 AM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

Chris Edelson at MarketWatch says that the implications of Trump's wiretapping accusations are much more serious than anyone is willing to admit:

Where "anyone" here means "Republicans".

The rest of us including 3 million more voters have been saying this the entire time. Having a deranged madman who only reads fake news with his finger on the button was never a good idea.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:33 AM on March 6, 2017 [35 favorites]

Watching Comey beg the Sessions DOJ to bail him out from under Trump's claims is darkly hilarious.

And the fact that the DOJ refuses to do so should make crystal clear to Comey the corruption of the administration he serves. I wonder he ever has sleepless nights when he wishes for a do-over for when he decided to throw the election to Trump. Nah, probably not.
posted by JackFlash at 8:33 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Conway: "He is the president...He has information and intelligence that the rest of us do not."

Weird how Flackabee Slanders wouldn't say that on NBC.
posted by holgate at 8:34 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

>Per Mark Knoller, CBS White House Correspondent, there will be no TV cameras at today's daily briefing. (???!!!???)

There is no briefing today. They are doing a gaggle, similar to the one that started that huge dumpster fire a week ago Friday. Time will tell who will be invited to the gaggle.

I mean, seriously, do they think that if they wait a few days to have a televised press conference it's going to have all calmed down? This is just going to piss off a lot of journalists even more.
posted by MattWPBS at 8:35 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Chris Edelson at MarketWatch says that the implications of Trump's wiretapping accusations are much more serious than anyone is willing to admit

Yeah, we're at a particularly unsettling junction right now. The wiretapping allegations (and the current doubling down) aren't compatible with a functioning system. And unlike the many other ways that Trump's presidency is problematic, I don't think this particular problem can just fester in the background for very long.
posted by diogenes at 8:36 AM on March 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

I want to thank all the mefites who messaged me yesterday about the town hall with Senator King. I got some great advice, and I'm sorry I didn't have time to reply to any of you (yet). Article about the event is here. Full video available on Youtube here. I'm speaking at 1 hour 11 minutes almost on the nose if you want to hear someone stupid nervous getting a big laugh and then trying not to burst into tears.

The event was scheduled to go from 5-7. It actually ran much longer than that - they took a break at 7 pm and let folks who wanted to leave leave, but Senator King stayed until everyone who had spoken had a chance to step up to the microphone. Rough count on the speakers is 25% for Gorsuch, 75% some version of against.
posted by anastasiav at 8:38 AM on March 6, 2017 [28 favorites]

Seen multiple women on Twitter remarking that so many pundits/press, with apparently little experience of living with an abuser, are baffled by Trump's behavior, while so many people (especially women) are not. We've seen this shit before.

Which is weird, because a number of people remarked that the so-called "liberal media" falling all over itself to declare Trump "pivoted to presidential" after only a single speech -- which was still full of fascist implications and, of course, numerous lies -- was the sort of behavior one expect from an abuse victim when their abuser offers a tiny, manipulative hint of remorse and normalcy.

I'd also point out that the constant drumbeat of "liberal media" accusations dating back at least to the Nixon Administration seems like a classic case of gaslighting.
posted by Gelatin at 8:39 AM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Op-Ed 'A Day Without a Woman' is a strike for privileged protesters
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:41 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump doesn't know how to do shit except blame and be the victim-bully. Even now, when it's becoming increasingly clear that selling out Crimea for some hacked emails was not a good idea, what's his response? THANKS OBAMA!
posted by benzenedream at 8:44 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Politico: Trump hires Rudy Giuliani's son for White House role

President Donald Trump has brought on Andrew Giuliani, the son of former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, to work in the Office of Public Liaison and Intergovernmental Affairs, two sources familiar with the hire told POLITICO.

Not so adorable anymore.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:44 AM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

Has anyone compared the new EO with the old one yet? Is it literally the same document but with Iraq removed from the list of countries and a delayed activation date?
posted by tobascodagama at 8:45 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Op-Ed 'A Day Without a Woman' is a strike for privileged protesters

It’s meant to highlight how crucial we are, but its very premise also suggest the opposite: Women are expendable. A Day Without a Woman plays into the idea that we entered the workforce not to support ourselves and our families but to combat boredom or to boost our self-esteem. For all but a very few affluent women, that’s never been the case.

Well, that's an incredibly bad reading of every argument since the first performance of Lysistrata.
posted by Etrigan at 8:46 AM on March 6, 2017 [43 favorites]

So K-Con did the K-Con thing where she made a statement that's technically true about the president's access to intel, but leaves it for the listener to impute a causal relationship, even as Huckabee Sanders dodged making that claim. What a disgrace.
posted by holgate at 8:46 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Between Trump's weekend vacations and security for Melania's NYC apartment, just the two of them alone are costing the taxpayer around $25,000,000 per month.

I propose this as a new unit: the Trump Month.

One Trump Month could pay off the combined state debts of Wyoming, North Dakota, Nebraska, South Dakota, Vermont, Mntana, Nedava, and Ohio.

46 Trump Months could pay off the state debt of every single state in the USA. Assuming he isn't impeached he will have 48 months in office.

So just the money we're squandering on his life of luxury BS is enough to pay off the entire state debt of every state in the USA **AND** his cuts to the EPA budget.

****************

I'd also like to hope that somewhere in his shriveled sense of morality, J. Edgar Comey realizes the extent of the damage he's done to America and that he feels, not remorse because clearly he's an inhuman monster incapable of that emotion, but perhaps regret over his own loss of position, respect, and authority.

I hope that we live through this, and since I'm younger than him, that I live long enough to piss on the fucker's grave.

How's it feel Comey? You stabbed America in the back to give the election to Trump, and now he's calling you a liar. Was it worth it?
posted by sotonohito at 8:47 AM on March 6, 2017 [63 favorites]

Has anyone compared the new EO with the old one yet? Is it literally the same document but with Iraq removed from the list of countries and a delayed activation date?

No, people with firm visas/green cards are not exempt from coming here now.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:47 AM on March 6, 2017

New Muslim ban EO text is up; it revokes the old one (making Washington v. Trump moot, I believe).
posted by melissasaurus at 8:47 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Op-Ed 'A Day Without a Woman' is a strike for privileged protesters

OK, people, a little farther out, little farther... You two, couple steps forward, good, good. Over here, can we—there we go, great, great circle, everybody ready? Ready... aim...
posted by Rykey at 8:48 AM on March 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

Strikes are always "for the privileged", "hard for working people", "unfair to students", etc. And I know, because I'm in a union and I've been on strike. You cease to be a legitimate human in the media the minute you stand up for yourself - all of the sudden, you're a scrounger, lazy, bad, selfish, etc. (So, for example, if any of those white working class Trumpists that the media likes so much were to....go on strike, well, they'd immediately suck too.)
posted by Frowner at 8:48 AM on March 6, 2017 [80 favorites]

New Muslim ban EO text is up

Hey, he spelled "hereby" accurately. Progress!
posted by Coventry at 8:52 AM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Serious question for people who understand the law better than me: what's to stop Trump from issuing a new Muslim Ban Executive Order every day, revoking the old one and mooting the lawsuit against it? Would the courts be able to declare that they're all functionally one EO and rule against it, or would the ensuing chaos be a win for Trump since no single ban would last long enough for there to even be an injunction against it?
posted by sotonohito at 8:53 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

From the EO text:

Sec. 15. Severability. (a) If any provision of this order, or the application of any provision to any person or circumstance, is held to be invalid, the remainder of this order and the application of its other provisions to any other persons or circumstances shall not be affected thereby.

Is this standard, or an attempt to stop a court issuing a restraining order on the entire thing?
posted by MattWPBS at 8:53 AM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

If you can strike, great. I just started two contract jobs and I cannot take a day off work unless I'm deathly ill. The Women's March organizers have found other ways for people who can't strike to remain active, and those are accessible.

Also, Megan Daum's archive looks like a professional hot-take machine. Move along, nothing to see here...
posted by pxe2000 at 8:55 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

what's to stop Trump from issuing a new Muslim Ban Executive Order every day, revoking the old one and mooting the lawsuit against it? Would the courts be able to declare that they're all functionally one EO and rule against it,

Mootness can be avoided if the issue is "capable of repetition, yet evading review". A court could reach a final judgment on some version of the EO, and if the administration persisted with functionally equivalent EOs, then the court could hold the administration in contempt .
posted by jedicus at 8:57 AM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

Is this standard, or an attempt to stop a court issuing a restraining order on the entire thing?

Both.
posted by Etrigan at 8:57 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Severability is boilerplate, in a legislative context (as vs. contracts) it typically just restates background rules of statutory construction and asserting it doesn't always make it so.

Mootness can be avoided if the issue is "capable of repetition, yet evading review".

For more on this, google 'justiciability'.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:57 AM on March 6, 2017

In early January, it was a trip to Uruguay

Now they're just trolling.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:59 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

tobascodagama: Has anyone compared the new EO with the old one yet? Is it literally the same document but with Iraq removed from the list of countries and a delayed activation date?

There's a lot of new material - it grew from 6 pages (original EO) to 17, from what I pasted into Word. I also ran a basic compare filter, and it's not just new text. I'll let others dig through it, I should get back to work.

Here's a quick difference check online, which isn't as robust as what MS Word offers, but this provides a quick, lasting link.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:00 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

i would think that a contempt of court ruling against trump would be the easiest judgement to make stick, ever? like you could just quote him explicitly stating his contempt of the court, bang, job done :P
posted by murphy slaw at 9:01 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

I fully expect Patrick Stewart's citizenship application process (which he has explicitly stated will be in order to fight Trump) to be gummed up by the trickle-down Trumpists in charge of immigration who want to stick it to the libs.

ICE does not handle applications. That's a different bureau's job. ICE only comes in when an application is rejected.

So, there's a chance the Deep State will be doing quite the opposite with Sir Patrick's application.
posted by ocschwar at 9:01 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's definitely longer -- larded up with more references, and discussion of the original EO. (Some less specific repetition of the VOICE stuff from the DHS enforcement memo too.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:01 AM on March 6, 2017

Plus, the image of having a squad of official security personnel surrounding you at meetings makes you look like a real boss. Seriously kids, you could probably include it as a business-related tax write-off.

You're thinking too small. What are the odds they're flying their own chartered planes and charging the SS to ride with them (not to mention any Trump hotel rooms they would be required to stay in)? So the money our taxes are paying to protect them are going right into their pockets?
posted by Mchelly at 9:01 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

New York's Attorney General Eric Schneiderman: "I stand ready to litigate -- again" over Trump's new travel ban executive order.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:02 AM on March 6, 2017 [35 favorites]

A court could reach a final judgment on some version of the EO, and if the administration persisted with functionally equivalent EOs, then the court could hold the administration in contempt.

That seems like a fine way for things to be handled in a functional three-branch government, but in the current climate I could see the administration pursuing that approach deliberately, since their base will be more sympathetic to "Overreach! Activist Judges!" complaints in response to a contempt ruling vs. a more traditional judgement against a standing EO.
posted by contraption at 9:03 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Last night, I attended a small meet and greet with Jon Ossoff, one of the Democratic candidates in the election for Georgia's 6th district, the seat vacated by Tom Price. He's young (30), enthusiastic, and seems to have a good head on his shoulders. I feel like he is doing a good job capitalizing on the anti-Trump sentiment in the district while still focusing on local priorities (increasing tech jobs in the district, local infrastructure projects, etc). He is a vocal supporter of Planned Parenthood and admits that that may hurt him in our traditionally red district. He also has the endorsement of Rep. John Lewis, on whose staff he has served.

In talking with him for a few minutes and listening to him stump and take questions for a few more, I became truly excited about his candidacy and his ability to win. He has raised $3M so far (in contrast to a $1M republican attack ad campaign against him that essentially just shows him having fun in college). Those donations have mostly come in increments of $10 and $20 and haven't been limited to donors in his district.

Trump won this district by 1 point (but Tom Price traditionally won it by 20 or 30). I encourage you to check out Ossoff's website and to consider a small donation if you are so inclined.

Elect Jon Ossoff
posted by Fritzle at 9:04 AM on March 6, 2017 [60 favorites]

Regarding Louisville/Jefferson Co public schools, this is part of a broader effort of Kentucky Republicans to get school "choice", charter schools, and vouchers through. They've been trying to do this for years, but have been stopped by state Democrats and our relatively strong teacher union. Unfortunately the Republicans took control of both branches of the legislature in November (gained the governorship year before) and now they can pass every shitty, destructive thing they've been salivating over.

If the neighborhood schools thing is forced on us, our schools will decline in quality almost across the board. Much easier to sell people on "choice" (we already have a certain amount of choice built into the system) and charters when your kid's school is failing or overcrowded or was closed because of consolidation.

Most public school parents here don't love the system. They aren't fond of the long bus rides some kids have and the fact that we spend so much of our budget on transportation costs. But most of the true ire is reserved for onerous testing regimes and a system that is too top-heavy with bureaucrats. Most public school parents here recognize that our imperfect system is better than what we would have if we became re-segregated.
posted by chaoticgood at 9:05 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

sotonohito: I propose this as a new unit: the Trump Month. One Trump Month could pay off the combined state debts of Wyoming, North Dakota, Nebraska, South Dakota, Vermont, Montana, Nevada, and Ohio.

That's awesome - if it's OK with you, I'll share this as far as I can. Seriously, this is obscene, especially when he's talking about program cuts and pushing burdens back on states as "states rights."
posted by filthy light thief at 9:06 AM on March 6, 2017 [29 favorites]

I can't quite decide what I'm going to do on Wednesday. I could reasonably not go in, but the idea of striking in my position seems counterproductive, given what I do. Not that I'm indispensable by any measure. I don't know, just thinking out loud.

This is kind of where I'm at. I'm a white collar worker at a public institution of higher learning and generally invisible (especially because it's spring break this week and it's a ghost town). I get paid days off and I even have a comp time day just sitting here that I could use. But, like, is it a strike if I'm just like "Hey, not going to be in today" and they're like "That's cool, see you tomorrow"? That's just, like, a day off. Feels like a better use of my time would be to donate what I make Wednesday to Planned Parenthood or the Women's Shelter.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:06 AM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

(iv) Executive Order 13769 did not provide a basis for discriminating for or against members of any particular religion.

That's not what the 9th Circuit thought. A lot of the new EO is just grandstanding.
(Hot take, I'm digesting it. Or, trying.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:07 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

A lot of the new EO is just grandstanding.

I'm a little surprised that they didn't pick a title that acronymed to "Yuh-HUH".
posted by Etrigan at 9:08 AM on March 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

Pat Toomey's dumb not-a-town-hall-but-I'm-going-to-act-like-this-solves-all-my-problems is at 2:10 today.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:12 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

cjelli: Trump is on record -- I think videotaped, even -- having talked about how the Obama administration guidelines were discriminatory against Christians and how they needed to change that.

This general issue was raised before: How Trump's 'Muslim ban' comments can hurt his travel ban case (CNN, Feb. 7, 2017)

In a case currently before the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, lawyers for the states of Washington and Minnesota cite previous court holdings on religious discrimination that it is "'the duty of the courts to distinguish a sham secular purpose from a sincere one.'"

"Here, the sham of a secular purpose is exposed by both the language of the order and defendants' expressions of anti-Muslim intent," the lawyers wrote.

Constitutional scholars agree that those statements made by Trump and his surrogates could be used in proceedings.

May this die by his own words.

As a reminder, the conservative CATO Institute listed Five Reasons Congress Should Repeal Trump’s Immigrant & Refugee Ban on Jan. 28, 2017:
1) The order violates the law.
2) Refugees and immigrants from Muslim-majority countries are not a serious threat to Americans.
3) The order aids the Islamic State.
4) Muslim immigrants to the U.S. are reforming Islam.
5) America’s tradition of accepting refugees should be defended.

They elaborate on each point, and provide links to additional resources.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:12 AM on March 6, 2017 [45 favorites]

Is this standard, or an attempt to stop a court issuing a restraining order on the entire thing?

FWIW almost nobody seems to think this part is enforceable.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:14 AM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

Between Trump's weekend vacations and security for Melania's NYC apartment, just the two of them alone are costing the taxpayer around $25,000,000 per month.

With this type of stuff, I try to think: would I care if he wasn't a fascist? And honestly, no. I support any wife of the president to make her own marital choices, and if that includes not living with her husband, that's fine.

Similarly, with any other president, I wouldn't view it as "vacation" to go back to your own house. And I think any other house in NYC, for example, would have similar challenges.

The part I think is jacked is where he charges the secret service for rent and plane flights.
posted by corb at 9:15 AM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

is it atypical to include a bunch of language arguing about intent in an executive order? you can't force a court to accept your stated intent by assertion, right?
posted by murphy slaw at 9:17 AM on March 6, 2017

May this die by his own words.

And Rudy's.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:17 AM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

With this type of stuff, I try to think: would I care if he wasn't a fascist? And honestly, no. I support any wife of the president to make her own marital choices, and if that includes not living with her husband, that's fine.

I hope you never again complain about people trying to eke out some minuscule extra benefit from welfare.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:18 AM on March 6, 2017 [50 favorites]

I wouldn't care about the Melania sitch if they weren't fascists. She wants to live apart from him and doesn't want to do the First Lady gig. That's fine. I don't want to set a precedent where the spouse of the President is forced into that role "to save money."

The situation with Uday and Qusay, however, wouldn't even exists if they weren't fascists. I feel a-okay telling those jagoffs to curtail their damn jetsetting, have a conference call and stop actively expanding their global empire for like 5 minutes while their dad is leader of the free world.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:18 AM on March 6, 2017 [21 favorites]

So, before the experts all weigh in, I'm just going to suggest this new EO is going to follow the familiar story arc:

Well, that first EO was a rush job by inexperienced lawyers. Now they've had some time and have staffed up with real lawyers, this one will be the real deal. [Experts parse text.] False alarm, everyone. This is more TrumpCo botch and bullshit. Maybe third time's the charm?
posted by notyou at 9:19 AM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

When you run for president the expectation is that you and your family will be living in the White House for most of the year, with occasional vacations. There was no indication from Trump before the election that we would be paying for his family to maintain two separate permanent residences, or that he would be spending almost every single weekend in Mar-a-Lago at $10 million a pop. If Melania wants to live separately that's their choice, and they should pay for it.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:20 AM on March 6, 2017 [66 favorites]

is it atypical to include a bunch of language arguing about intent in an executive order? you can't force a court to accept your stated intent by assertion, right?

It's a way of them saying "Ignore what you heard when our idiots were blabbing on the TV".
posted by Talez at 9:20 AM on March 6, 2017

That's fine. I don't want to set a precedent where the spouse of the President is forced into that role "to save money."

Then she can go live at Camp David or something. The expense of securing Trump Tower and Mar-a-Lago, and the direct and indirect benefit to the Trump enterprises that brings is disgustingly corrupt and wasteful.

These are commercial income-generating properties. It's just pure, open graft.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:21 AM on March 6, 2017 [103 favorites]

Similarly, with any other president, I wouldn't view it as "vacation" to go back to your own house.

One house, sure. And a house house, sure. Not an apartment in an apartment building or country club that you own and which has to be secured and which uses the added security as an advertised perk and which the government pays you rent to occupy.
posted by Etrigan at 9:21 AM on March 6, 2017 [27 favorites]

Similarly, with any other president, I wouldn't view it as "vacation" to go back to your own house. And I think any other house in NYC, for example, would have similar challenges.

Yeah, going back to your own house, no problem. Going back to your open to the paying public country club? Problem.
posted by MattWPBS at 9:22 AM on March 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

There needs to be A lifetime limit on presidential expenses, set high enough that nobody can reasonably exceed it and below whatever Trump has burnt through by the time it is enacted.
posted by Artw at 9:22 AM on March 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

Then she can go live at Camp David or something.

I mean, not really? Her school age son is in a special program at his school in Manhattan.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:23 AM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

is it atypical to include a bunch of language arguing about intent in an executive order? you can't force a court to accept your stated intent by assertion, right?

IANAL, but it doesn't seem totally insane to state your intent in a memo. However, you indeed cannot force a court to accept your stated intent, especially if it's at odds with the effect of the rest of the memo.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:23 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

The money is all going directly into his pocket, if you don't see a problem with that I don't know what to say.
posted by Artw at 9:24 AM on March 6, 2017 [39 favorites]

For sure neither he nor she should be going to Mar-a-Lago every weekend. You'll go to Camp David and you'll like it. (I'm so torn about this though because the more time he spends there golfing, the less time he has to fuck shit up for everyone else.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:24 AM on March 6, 2017

Then she can go live at Camp David or something.

I mean, not really? Her school age son is in a special program at his school in Manhattan.

Are you kidding right now?

I'm sure he could be tutored for less than $25M a month. His educational experience is not more important than literally entire states worth of disadvantaged people. Donald J. Trump is not King Of America and Barron is not the Crown Prince.

What the actual fuck
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:25 AM on March 6, 2017 [152 favorites]

I mean, not really? Her school age son is in a special program at his school in Manhattan.

It would be cheaper to bring fully qualified teachers and support staff to Camp David. Hell, it would probably be cheaper to move the entire school to Camp David for the next 3.8 years.
posted by jedicus at 9:26 AM on March 6, 2017 [23 favorites]

Are you kidding right now?

No. I'm a New Yorker, and I realize my city is paying for it, and I don't have a problem. Without speculating, Barron is widely assumed to have special needs. It's not his fault, and I don't care at all that my money is being spent to keep him in his school.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:26 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Is this standard, or an attempt to stop a court issuing a restraining order on the entire thing?

FWIW almost nobody seems to think this part is enforceable.

And, while severability is a standard clause in contracts and legislation, it is not a common boilerplate clause in EOs - I did a quick search for the words "severable" or "severability" and there were only 4 EOs with a severability clause, all under Obama and all relating to workers rights initiatives in 2014/2015, interestingly.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:27 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

When you run for president the expectation is that you and your family will be living in the White House for most of the year, with occasional vacations.

The thing is, it's not like you need to get a signed waiver from your spouse to run for office. She didn't choose to run for office, her shitbird abusive maniac spouse did. Barron definitely didn't choose it. I don't feel they should be forced to come along as though they were just furniture and had no needs of their own.
posted by corb at 9:29 AM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

No. I'm a New Yorker, and I realize my city is paying for it, and I don't have a problem. Without speculating, Barron is widely assumed to have special needs. It's not his fault, and I don't care at all that my money is being spent to keep him in his school.

He could have teams of private teachers who are experts in whatever his needs are flown in to the White House for way less money.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:29 AM on March 6, 2017 [19 favorites]

special Manhattan school at taxpayer expense for Barron Trump, Betsy fucking DeVos for the rest of us
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:30 AM on March 6, 2017 [123 favorites]

No. I'm a New Yorker, and I realize my city is paying for it

No. NYC is paying for as much of it as they are for every other kid. The US taxpayers are picking up the bill for keeping the family in NYC.

Money that could go to special needs kids outside of NYC who currently get nothing at all.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:30 AM on March 6, 2017 [25 favorites]

@GlennThrush

Been on dozens of background conference calls: DOJ/DOS/DHS call was first time I've been on 1 where officials didn't give their names.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:31 AM on March 6, 2017 [13 favorites]

No. NYC is paying for as much of it as they are for every other kid. The US taxpayers are picking up the bill for keeping the family in NYC.

This is not true. Mayor de Blasio has talked about this many times.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:32 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Without speculating, Barron is widely assumed to have special needs. It's not his fault, and I don't care at all that my money is being spent to keep him in his school.

Good thing there'll still be one kid we can say that about.
posted by Etrigan at 9:32 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

This is your weekly reminder that neither Nikulin nor Firtash have been extradited yet. rumors about sessions and alfa bank are seeping out via blogs. (not gonna link a rumor)
posted by xcasex at 9:32 AM on March 6, 2017

I don't feel they should be forced to come along as though they were just furniture and had no needs of their own.

While I really want to agree with you, Corb, I feel like with this family, it's all just too much. The massive graft, the vacations, the cutting of services for everyone else...I know it's a double standard, because I'd feel exactly as you do if Michelle Obama had decided to continue her career in Chicago and stay with her kids, but it's just this fucking family...
posted by Sophie1 at 9:32 AM on March 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

The thing is, it's not like you need to get a signed waiver from your spouse to run for office. She didn't choose to run for office, her shitbird abusive maniac spouse did. Barron definitely didn't choose it. I don't feel they should be forced to come along as though they were just furniture and had no needs of their own.

hey, if you don't want to live in the white house, that's fine, don't expect the people to pay for your protection though.
posted by entropicamericana at 9:33 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

This is not true. Mayor de Blasio has talked about this many times.

Like when he billed Congress $7M for security between the election and inauguration? Before Trump was even President?

Let's see what FOIA requests reflect over the coming months.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:33 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

roomthreeseventeen: @GlennThrush Been on dozens of background conference calls: DOJ/DOS/DHS call was first time I've been on 1 where officials didn't give their names.

The ~~buck~~ blame stops here, with the president.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:34 AM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

The President's children should be allowed, encouraged and empowered to live as normal a life as possible. It's hard enough to have a high-profile parent, anyone advocating we send them away to Camp David or keep them locked away with tutors inside the White House is being very cruel.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:34 AM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

@NYCmayor:
Today I’m sending letters to the White House and Congress to request reimbursement for the NYPD’s role in protecting Trump Tower.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:34 AM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

(not gonna link a rumor)

if you're gonna reference a rumor, you might as well link it
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:35 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

We can probably discuss—to the extent that there's something new/interesting to discuss rather than just turn familiar circles on—the issues with graft and tax burden from Trump's presidency without dallying further into an arm-wrestling match over Melania and Barron's symbolic role-or-not in that issue.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:35 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

May this die by his own words.

FFS, the complete and total Muslim Ban is still up on his website. Could they be any more stupid? /Chandler voice
posted by chris24 at 9:36 AM on March 6, 2017 [22 favorites]

if you're gonna reference a rumor, you might as well link it

For real. It's almost my lunch hour and I left my gym clothes at home today. Spill.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:37 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Here's a track changes on the two immigration EOs.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:39 AM on March 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

Besides, his family will have to get used to visiting him in prison eventually, might as well be sooner versus later.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:43 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Do slaves toil at the Trump hotels in areas where slavery is one of the norms?
posted by Oyéah at 9:43 AM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

David Duke's twitter account has been suspended.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:47 AM on March 6, 2017 [50 favorites]

Politico: Secret Service faces massive bill for protecting Trump

CNN: US military to rent space in Trump Tower (video autoplays)

NYT: Why the Defense Dept. Is Looking to Lease Space in Trump Tower
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:47 AM on March 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

WaPo: The Daily 202: Wiretapping allegations accomplished what Trump wanted – but may backfire bigly

It is past time to dispense with the fiction that Trump doesn’t know what he’s doing. He knows exactly what he’s doing. He is trying to distract us. And, at least this weekend, he succeeded.

...

THIS IS TRUMP’S MODUS OPERANDI:

-- Whenever he is under fire for something in a sustained way, he makes a shocking claim or provocative declaration about something else to change the subject. He is a master practitioner at the politics of distraction.

This column lays this out very nicely. He really is leaning hard on outrage fatigue to get away with things. But this column also points out he's not dealing with just New York tabloids anymore, and how responses to his behavior are starting to go against him.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:47 AM on March 6, 2017 [21 favorites]

Do slaves toil at the Trump hotels in areas where slavery is one of the norms?

They just opened a golf course in Dubai and had an office tower/hotel start construction in the mid-aughts before the financing fell apart. So yes, they do. I spent three weeks two years ago in Nepal working with an NGO that worked to prevent labor trafficking to the Mideast and to rescue and reintegrate those returned. The stories of poor desperate men lured to "good paying jobs" in the Mideast and then trapped as basically indentured servants/slaves, imprisoned, injured and killed are horrific. Labor trafficking may not get the publicity of sex trafficking, but it's just as big an issue in Nepal and just as awful.
posted by chris24 at 9:49 AM on March 6, 2017 [46 favorites]

Whenever he is under fire for something in a sustained way, he makes a shocking claim or provocative declaration about something else to change the subject. He is a master practitioner at the politics of distraction.

Distraction works when you have one reporter hounding you. Or one spouse or a handful of kids you're trying to dominate. "Distraction" can never really be a political tool because there are too many of us and we don't all operate in the same lane. Trying to use distraction when you're the president shows that you have really misunderstood the nature of politics and the nature of your opposition.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:55 AM on March 6, 2017 [15 favorites]

So it looks like the new EO removed some problematic language (prioritizing religious minorities and not interfering with visas already granted). My guess is that they're hoping that will resolve the judicial issues. But once it's in place, you can bet that the practical effect will be the same.

The question is, what will they do next? Another "temporary" ban when this one expires? How long can that keep doing that?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:56 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

ZeusHumms: how responses to his behavior are starting to go against him.

If we had only been done with his bullshit distraction techniques back in, let's say, August 2016. If only.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:57 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

rumors about sessions and alfa bank are seeping out via blogs. (not gonna link a rumor)

Oh no. No no no no. Please link. Don't demur for our sakes'; we can handle our grains of salt.

Link us good, please.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:59 AM on March 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

The question is, what will they do next? Another "temporary" ban when this one expires? How long can that keep doing that?

Until we finally have a war with one of the banned nations, so he can say "See? They're dangerous!" and get Congress to sign some bullshit into law. Or jump straight to martial law, and declare himself god-emperor until he makes enough money while bankrupting the country, and gets bored with this reality TV show.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:00 AM on March 6, 2017

Whenever he is under fire for something in a sustained way, he makes a shocking claim or provocative declaration about something else to change the subject. He is a master practitioner at the politics of distraction.

There's a decent argument for this, but have you considered the alternate theory that he simply makes shocking claims and provocative declaration on a regular basis and is also constantly under fire for something? I remain unconvinced that he doesn't simply say crazy stuff all the time and we're all searching for a pattern in the noise.
posted by zachlipton at 10:00 AM on March 6, 2017 [44 favorites]

If Trump wants to live in Trump Tower, he should at least give us a good explanation for why he so badly wants to live in one of our crumbling, crime-ridden inner cities. I hear they're awful.
posted by 0xFCAF at 10:01 AM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

Distraction works when you have one reporter hounding you. Or one spouse or a handful of kids you're trying to dominate. "Distraction" can never really be a political tool because there are too many of us and we don't all operate in the same lane. Trying to use distraction when you're the president shows that you have really misunderstood the nature of politics and the nature of your opposition.

The fact, for instance, that Sessions lied under oath ("I had no contact with any Russians" / "Oh, you mean those Russians!") to his Senate confirmation committee isn't going away, nor does it have a statute of limitations. Like a whack-a-mole, Trump's diversion act might be fast-paced, but it just means there's an increasing number of scandals that can pop up at any time -- in particular, just when he feels he's accomplished something.

And as people like Josh Marshall have pointed out, the pattern of many of these scandals appear to point to the fact that Trump and many of his coterie are compromised by the Russians. That fact, too, isn't going away.
posted by Gelatin at 10:01 AM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

FYI: On Tuesday, March 7, 2017, Congressman Ted W. Lieu (D-Los Angeles County) will host a Facebook Live video stream to update constituents of California’s 33rd congressional district and answer questions on the current state of our country.

As I am technically* not on Facebook I just sent a email to ask if he will be holding any in-person town halls. (At least we know he's not afraid of his constituents so there must be another reason for this.)

*I should be able to listen in, though.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:02 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

I don't understand why someone close to him cant convince him to get off twitter. Is he seriously all alone? I find that hard to believe, which leads me to think its not just his crazy outbursts but rather a more calculated effort to deflect, incite, whatever.
posted by H. Roark at 10:03 AM on March 6, 2017

So it looks like the new EO removed some problematic language (prioritizing religious minorities and not interfering with visas already granted).

I think the question is how CBP will handle it though. I could very easily see a future in which people with existing visas who are citizens of the banned countries aren't technically banned, but a large enough percentage of them are detained for days at airports and sent back that it would discourage most everyone else from even trying to get in. You simply have the ban on paper for new visas and a quasi-ban enforced by immigration agents for everyone else.
posted by zachlipton at 10:04 AM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

I don't understand why someone close to him cant convince him to get off twitter.

Affirmation. Adoration. Vengence. Where else is he going to get his fix?

Oh, and insanity.
posted by chris24 at 10:05 AM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

I feel like with this family, it's all just too much. The massive graft, the vacations, the cutting of services for everyone else...

There's a point at which the need to accommodate the head of state and family in an appropriate manner ceases to be tied to the American tradition of the first citizen living in a house paid for and open to other citizens, and instead resembles the way a family dictatorship holes up in a variety of presidential palaces.
posted by holgate at 10:06 AM on March 6, 2017 [80 favorites]

He's a narcissist and attention is his drug of choice. Twitter is the most effective and potent form of delivery. No way is he going to give that up.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:07 AM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

I haven't made it through the thread yet but the Kushner as secret SoS reminded me: I remember back before the inauguration when Trump was talking about "hiring" Kushner that there was a bunch of people saying that he can't do that because hiring family members was illegal (and has been illegal ever since JFK appointed RFK as AG). Whatever happened to that?

I look forward to reading the responses in a couple days when I finally make it to the end of the thread.
posted by LizBoBiz at 10:07 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

I don't understand why someone close to him cant convince him to get off twitter

Because he's a mean spirited bully who is utterly convinced that he is the smartest person ever and that his every decision is objectively the best decision ever and anyone who disagrees with him is disloyal and should be fired?

I really doubt anyone, up to and including Ivanka, could urge him to get off twitter without being accused of betraying him and cast out of the inner circle.
posted by sotonohito at 10:08 AM on March 6, 2017 [13 favorites]

Whenever he is under fire for something in a sustained way, he makes a shocking claim or provocative declaration about something else to change the subject.

This is kind of similar to reports of folks who have worked with him saying he changes the subject when he's out of his depth. He's trying to shift to a more favorable ground where he actually knows more or at the very least his "opponent" knows less. Whether or not he's fully aware that he's doing this, and how not all discussions are zero-sum competitions, and how it only gives a short-term advantage at the cost of learning something new is unknown.
posted by FJT at 10:09 AM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

> but a large enough percentage of them are detained for days at airports and sent back that it would discourage most everyone else from even trying to get in

Right. As we've seen, much of ICE's management structure and rank-and-file takes its marching orders directly from the Tweeter-in-Chief. Having seen what these agents will do when the text of the order says one thing -- sometimes going far beyond it -- the administration can without much loss of signal put out a much more restrictive version of it while the people carrying out the policy on the ground operate under the old version. Sure, some of the abuses will get caught, the ACLU and other groups will sue, and it'll get tied up in the courts for years while the agents keep doing their thing. Checks and balances are no substitute for having reasonable, moral humans operating each branch of government.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:09 AM on March 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

How Trump's refugee ban hurts health care in places that voted for him
posted by zombieflanders at 10:10 AM on March 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

I don't understand why someone close to him cant convince him to get off twitter.

Because he's a world class narcissist. He needs a steady stream of praise & worship to fill his bottomless need. Satisfying the hunger of his narcissism is responsible for much more of his aberrant activity than most people realize. It's in control, he isn't.
posted by scalefree at 10:13 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

I am pretty sure that President Bannon intends things like the immigrant crime list and the travel bans to spark some good old-fashioned stochastic terrorism.
posted by dhens at 10:15 AM on March 6, 2017 [15 favorites]

Oh no. No no no no. Please link. Don't demur for our sakes'; we can handle our grains of salt.

well schadenf.. oh i see what you did there ;) here ya go, hope you have a bathtub worth 'a salt ;)
posted by xcasex at 10:17 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

> Last night, I attended a small meet and greet with Jon Ossoff, one of the Democratic candidates in the election for Georgia's 6th district, the seat vacated by Tom Price. He's young (30), enthusiastic, and seems to have a good head on his shoulders. I feel like he is doing a good job capitalizing on the anti-Trump sentiment in the district while still focusing on local priorities (increasing tech jobs in the district, local infrastructure projects, etc). He is a vocal supporter of Planned Parenthood and admits that that may hurt him in our traditionally red district. He also has the endorsement of Rep. John Lewis, on whose staff he has served.

Mr. Ossoff's name also came up during our town hall yesterday when Mr. Doggett personally recommended him for office to the crowd of Indivisible members, as apparently Mr. Ossoff spent some time working with him as a staffer. I've simultaneously been hearing promising things about him from my friends from college. (I attended University of Georgia and several of my friends from the Lambda Alliance went on to kick off careers in either politics or advocacy activism, so this is not a trivial thing for me--although many of us have since moved to other states, most of us still have at least some ties to Georgia and Atlanta, and there's a fairly significant buzz about that on my feeds too.) I haven't gone looking for information about him much, but I very much like what I've heard--and more importantly, I like who's endorsing him. Plus--who can't love a young upstart with a slogan of "Make Trump Furious?"

Thanks for the reminder to donate; I think I'm going to go ahead and toss five bucks into the hat for him. Never know, right?
posted by sciatrix at 10:18 AM on March 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

severability is a standard clause in contracts and legislation, it is not a common boilerplate clause in EOs

I thought that was interesting, and looking through some of the briefing on Washington v. Trump the absence of a serverability clause and a lack of facial clarity as to whether the drafters would have wanted partial enforcement was in fact argued. (One example.)

So, it would seem that even if it's a novel concept in EOs the administration decided it's better to dispense with it by boilerplate than to let it hang out there.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:19 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Has Trump been back to the tower since his inauguration?
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:21 AM on March 6, 2017

Has Trump been back to the tower since his inauguration?

He hasn't been in NYC at all.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:25 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

the question that's been unaddressed (so far as I've seen) is what role Ivanka has -- she's clearly deeply involved in the workings of the administration, but I don't believe she's been appointed as an adviser or has any other formal role.

I would really like to know:

a) whether Ivanka Trump has been granted a security clearance to view classified material?
b) if so, to what level of material she has been granted clearance?
c) if so, on what basis was she granted a clearance?
d) if not, has she been receiving classified material and at what level?
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:32 AM on March 6, 2017 [49 favorites]

Apparently Khirz Khan has been told his travel privileges are being reviewed.
posted by StrawberryPie at 10:35 AM on March 6, 2017 [43 favorites]

Speaking of how CBP could just make people's lives miserable without an actual ban on paper: "JUST IN: Gold Star father Khizr Khan cancels scheduled speech in Toronto after being told his "travel privileges are being reviewed.""

I don't really understand what that means, as "travel privileges are being reviewed" isn't an actually a process that exists, but Khan is a US Citizen and has been for 30+ years. It's unclear exactly who's doing this review and what's going on.
posted by zachlipton at 10:36 AM on March 6, 2017 [77 favorites]

I mean, I know that functionally people at the border could just refuse Khan entry and rip up his passport and laugh in his face to their small twisted hearts' content, but legally, what basis is there for this? Or is this just raw revenge without a fig leaf of cover?
posted by dhens at 10:39 AM on March 6, 2017

Terrorism, clearly.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 10:39 AM on March 6, 2017

I don't understand why someone close to him cant convince him to get off twitter.

I doubt it's possible. He sounds obsessed with the format. Remember that creepy phrasing he (allegedly) used when threatening Megyn Kelly? Kelly said that after her segment aired, Trump called and told her that 'I almost unleashed my beautiful Twitter account on you, and I still may.'
posted by sapere aude at 10:40 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

He was just at Dulles last week supporting volunteers who help immigrants.

A true American.
posted by mochapickle at 10:40 AM on March 6, 2017 [19 favorites]

Fuck everyone.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:40 AM on March 6, 2017 [15 favorites]

On the bright side, I guess, they threw David Duke off Twitter. Richard Spencer is still ok apparently.
posted by zachlipton at 10:40 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

The Khan "travel privileges" thing is really weird. I know that Trump's federal government and its instruments are cruel, petty and vengeful, but I don't know how or when Khan would have received a communication from any office that would have said something like that.

I'm afraid that what might have happened is that he rightfully got cold feet about travelling out of country right after the EO, so he communicated something like that to the Toronto group.

But now that one statement they disseminated (with or without his consent, and which he's not commenting on to reporters) is being taken as an official federal communique instead of a prudent personal decision.
posted by maudlin at 10:42 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Khan's being made an example of in an attempt to frighten immigrants (including US citizens) into silence, right? Via Bannon, right? Welcoming any other possible explanations because Jesus Christ. edit: hope you're right, Maudlin.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:43 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

the thing i don't get about trump and twitter is - does he actually read his mentions? at this point more than half of his replies are rebukes, insults, memes designed to infuriate him, and other such abuse. is it really enough for him that people are watching, no matter what they think of what they see?
posted by murphy slaw at 10:46 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm honestly confused enough by the Khan story that I'm not really outraged yet. This one is going to need some more reporting.
posted by zachlipton at 10:46 AM on March 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

Yeah, maybe hold off on the Khan outrage for a bit. There doesn't seem to be a lot there.
posted by notyou at 10:47 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

is it really enough for him that people are watching, no matter what they think of what they see?

"If they hate you, you're doing something right" is a credo for assholes.
posted by Etrigan at 10:47 AM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

I actually wouldn't be surprised if trump/bannon/etc., had discussed coming down hard on Khan and that leaking back to Khan because the president is a whiny vindictive man-baby asshole and the administration is leaking like sieve.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 10:50 AM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

I would love to see a statutory cap on the amount that taxpayers will spend to secure the president and his family when not on official business - something like $10 million a year adjusted for inflation, which is a bit less than what Obama's vacation costs were. Fiscal conservatives and Tea Party types complained endlessly about Obama's vacation costs, so why not rein costs in permanently? They can tell their constituents that it's about Obama, not Trump. Trump's abuse of the system is obviously unprecedented, but I don't see any necessary reason to give the president a blank check for personal security expenses. I wonder if there is any legal reason that a cap like that couldn't exist.
posted by vathek at 10:51 AM on March 6, 2017 [32 favorites]

Another anecdote from a northern neighbour as you all fight and resist down south. One of my friends, a Canadian citizen, born in Canada, holding a Canadian passport was held at the land border for 6 hours yesterday, fingerprinted and refused entry to the USA. She was going for a spa day.

This has hit the news in Canada.

I'm from Vancouver, and I feel like it's not safe for me to travel back to see my family at this time for fear they might not let me return to the U.S. Some family members in Canada feel the same apprehension about crossing the border to visit, and I absolutely don't blame them. Stuff like this is why.

I'm at the point where I'm encouraging all my close non-US friends and family to boycott US travel and goods if they can.
posted by orbit-3 at 10:54 AM on March 6, 2017 [28 favorites]

Is there a source on the Khan story other than that one tweet?
posted by tobascodagama at 10:56 AM on March 6, 2017

He hasn't been in NYC at all.

Aside from visits to DC-area government facilities, pretty sure he hasn't been to a state that voted for Clinton.

I'm honestly confused enough by the Khan story that I'm not really outraged yet. This one is going to need some more reporting.

Yeah. Once conceivable scenario would be the threat of having his passport confiscated should he attempt to travel, but that's just speculation.
posted by holgate at 10:57 AM on March 6, 2017

VTX: Do judges typically ignore the intent of something with racist outcomes?

At least in the Muslim Ban cases, they went so far as to look at what he had said in public in the past to understand the intent. And as pointed out above by chris24, he still has his press release titled "DONALD J. TRUMP STATEMENT ON PREVENTING MUSLIM IMMIGRATION" on his DonaldJTrump.com presidential candidacy website, dated Dec. 7, 2015. The first line says it all, in typically casual language:

Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on. According to Pew Research, among others, there is great hatred towards Americans by large segments of the Muslim population.

No citations there, just general hand-wavery bullshit.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:58 AM on March 6, 2017 [13 favorites]

Seeing that photo, it is immediately becomes clear *why* she was turned away from spa day.

I can't emphasize this enough : it's insane for Canadians to travel to the US now under any circumstances.
posted by Yowser at 10:59 AM on March 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

Trump's diversion act might be fast-paced, but it just means there's an increasing number of scandals

This is what really makes me scratch my head. Investigations don't just go away when you switch to a new scandal. Surprised nobody's ever told him that.
posted by Rykey at 11:01 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

At what point does the massive chilling effect on tourism, business travel, conferences, etc that CBP's fascist actions will have lead to them being reined in? Will it have to start impacting the bottom lines of the airlines? The hotel industry? At this point, it appears clear that CBP is also willing to threaten US citizens with open-ended detention. It's vile and infuriating, but I also am not sure what actions I can take to fight it.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:03 AM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

I can't emphasize this enough : it's insane for Canadians to travel to the US now under any circumstances.

the worst part is that the damage will last way longer than this administration. even if we put someone sane in the white house, travelers all over the world now know that the US is never more than one election away from going completely mad.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:03 AM on March 6, 2017 [42 favorites]

Sam Stein: Spicer says we shouldn't trust Comey news on Trump's tweets because its anonymously sourced. Then won't say what source Trump tweet based on.

I guess it's a good thing that Trump doesn't seem to have access to Twitter today, but Spicer's comments are equally insane.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:05 AM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

Spicer's off-camera briefing appears to be going poorly:

@Carrasquillo: "Someone yells to Spicer, "sure you don't want to do this on-camera?" Spicer just ignored and moved on."

@MatthewNussbaum: "WOW: Spicer refusing to say what Trump's source is for wire tap claim, when pressed he snaps at reporter: "You're not on camera.""

@mikememoli: ".@PressSec hits press for relying on bckgd/anonymous sources to back claim of no wire tap, then won't give source of @POTUS' claim there was"

Does...he think the press asking him questions is all a show for the cameras?
posted by zachlipton at 11:06 AM on March 6, 2017 [85 favorites]

War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Spicer is Blander.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:07 AM on March 6, 2017 [19 favorites]

Does...he think the press asking him questions is all a show for the cameras?

remember, in trumpworld all interactions are zero sum, and if the other party is getting anything out of it at all, you've fucked up and left cash on the table
posted by murphy slaw at 11:07 AM on March 6, 2017 [25 favorites]

Another anecdote from a northern neighbour as you all fight and resist down south. One of my friends, a Canadian citizen, born in Canada, holding a Canadian passport was held at the land border for 6 hours yesterday, fingerprinted and refused entry to the USA. She was going for a spa day.

From the news article, she was told she needed an immigrant visa.

I am completely confused, did they replace all their staff with racist nincompoops overnight? She does NOT need a visa at all, but if you are a racist asshole, at least be accurate. She would need a non-immigrant B1/B2 visa for a spa day under our new, racist regime.
posted by Tarumba at 11:08 AM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

Aside from visits to DC-area government facilities, pretty sure he hasn't been to a state that voted for Clinton.

He was in Newport News, Virginia for his speech on the USS Gerald R Ford last Thursday. While it was in front of a friendly crowd of shipbuilders and navy personnel, the Hampton Roads area is one of the pockets of blue that has made Va go democratic in the last few national and statewide elections.
posted by peeedro at 11:09 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

One of my friends, a Canadian citizen, born in Canada, holding a Canadian passport was held at the land border for 6 hours yesterday, fingerprinted and refused entry to the USA. She was going for a spa day.

I imagine there's been a large uptick of shit like this, but do we have numbers? Is that even possible?

I just remember hearing stories like this from well before Trump was elected then inaugurated (which usually didn't make the news unless it was something like Peter Watts getting beaten) and am wondering how much worse it's gotten and if there's a way to quantify it.
posted by ODiV at 11:10 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

peedro don't you mean the Gerald R Ford USS? That is what Dear Leader now calls it.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 11:11 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

I think CBP, like ICE, might self-select for people who are terribly racist, terribly cruel, and terribly addicted to abuse of power.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:14 AM on March 6, 2017 [32 favorites]

And folks, just as a general reminder: these threads grow fast and part of that is folks doing sort of one-liner liveblog stuff and rushing to get stuff in the thread immediately without checking if someone else is too, which isn't usually the most useful part of the conversation. If you're pasting in individual tweets or just kinda reacting to stuff a lot, please make an effort to scale that back. Digests and roundups and fewer, more substantial comments about your reading/thoughts are a good goal to keep these more workable.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:14 AM on March 6, 2017 [31 favorites]

I think CBP, like ICE, might self-select for people who are terribly racist, terribly cruel, and terribly addicted to abuse of power.

i can't understand how an agency that allows you to rifle through people's underwear as part of your primary job function would attract unscrupulous types
posted by murphy slaw at 11:19 AM on March 6, 2017 [22 favorites]

Ah, yes, the Gerald R Ford USS, which is like a place, like a very big piece of land, but it's better than land.
posted by peeedro at 11:22 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Here's more on the Khan story, but there's still a lot of missing information, and he has declined to comment beyond his initial announcement.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:25 AM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

CBO: Obamacare Costing The Feds A Third Less Than Expected
posted by futz at 11:26 AM on March 6, 2017 [44 favorites]

BTW on the theory that Deep State should have a college hoodie, I came up with school colors (Royal blue and black) and a latin motto, imperare ex profundis. If anybody comes up with a design for a crest I'd like a hoodie.
posted by fedward at 11:27 AM on March 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

I'm genuinely concerned about my dad travelling now. He's a Canadian LPR and he travels abroad a lot for his job. Him and my mom are going on vacation to Canada in July. He's going to China in August. (ugh to Beijing. In August. I have already delivered condolences.) He hasn't gone anywhere international since Trump's inauguration but he's old and white and I don't think he is aware that suddenly CBP is gunning for everyone. He's a university professor, which I'm sure CBP would genuinely love to harass (surprise! he's conservative).
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:28 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Monmouth polls with some interesting granular breakdown of Trump approval:
The 2016 election was decided by a matter of degrees. The vast majority of counties gave either Trump or Hillary Clinton a double digit victory margin. The president has a solid 55% approve and 33% disapprove rating among residents of the nearly 2,500 counties that gave Trump a victory margin of ten points or more. He is upside down - 33% approve and 57% disapprove - among residents of the more than 400 counties he lost by ten points or more.

Opinion is divided at 41% approve and 46% disapprove among residents of the just over 300 counties where the 2016 winning margin was in the single digits. There is very little difference in opinion in these "swing counties" based on which candidate won there. In just over half of these counties that were won by Trump, his job rating stands at 43% approve and 48% disapprove. Among the remaining swing counties won by Hillary Clinton, 40% of residents approve of Trump's job performance and 44% disapprove.

"Public opinion in those swing counties will be extremely important to the success of Trump's presidency. Right now, it could go either way," said Patrick Murray, director of the independent Monmouth University Polling Institute in West Long Branch, New Jersey.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:33 AM on March 6, 2017 [16 favorites]

I don't understand why someone close to him cant convince him to get off twitter.

Because he's a world class narcissist. He needs a steady stream of praise & worship to fill his bottomless need. Satisfying the hunger of his narcissism is responsible for much more of his aberrant activity than most people realize. It's in control, he isn't.

I saw some news chatter about Trump's trips to Mar-a-largo and how supposedly once the weather warms up he'll transition to Camp David instead and I just don't buy it for a second. Mar-a-largo is his opportunity to go be around a fawning crowd and the membership fee helps select for a sympathetic crowd in a way he wouldn't be able to in The Old Post Office hotel location. He can't get that same ego-stroke at Camp David, so the question becomes what he's going to do when they hit the traditional period where Mar-a-largo is closed for the off season.

Does Predict-it have a bet for whether M-a-l will stop being closed for the summer so Trump can keep it as a travel destination? The fact that it gets you access to the president will surely help offset what would otherwise be a dip in usage.
posted by phearlez at 11:35 AM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

Opinion is divided at 41% approve and 46% disapprove among residents of the just over 300 counties where the 2016 winning margin was in the single digits. There is very little difference in opinion in these "swing counties" based on which candidate won there. In just over half of these counties that were won by Trump, his job rating stands at 43% approve and 48% disapprove. Among the remaining swing counties won by Hillary Clinton, 40% of residents approve of Trump's job performance and 44% disapprove.

*confused-dog head tilt*

Am I crazy or are they trying to describe something close to a regression discontinuity design? I can't quite tell whether they're getting at that or something closer to a matching design but I am not an identification-nazi.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:38 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Fedward: The Deep State symbol could be the lectern in the style of the one the current POTUS uses. But the base is a mass of eyes, interwoven arms, and whispering lips.
posted by Slackermagee at 11:39 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

The autochtonian state.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:41 AM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

matching is an estimation strategy not an identification strategy, no?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:41 AM on March 6, 2017

so this is single-source tweet without context, but the single source is an NBC news correspondent, and it's so nutbar that i have to share:

Talking to HUD employees Sec'y Ben Carson referred to slaves as immigrants, who dreamed of their families achieving prosperity and happiness -- @ChrisJansing

so that's a strong start for the new hud secretary
posted by murphy slaw at 11:43 AM on March 6, 2017 [77 favorites]

Spicer on Trump and Obama's relationship: "They'll be fine." Says they disagreed during campaign and will come together when they can.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:46 AM on March 6, 2017

obviously. trump has never had any issue with hobnobbing with criminals.
posted by murphy slaw at 11:48 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

I work in regulatory compliance at a bank so I know that it doesn't matter at all what the intent and language and all that are in your lending program if it has a disparate impact, it's illegal. Nondiscriminatory intent counts for nothing. But, it's that way because the laws that create that approach are explicitly written that way.

To what extent is the same true outside of banking regulation? Do judges typically ignore the intent of something with racist outcomes?

What you're probably concerned with in these circumstances is scrutiny basis. It's been pivotal in the advances on gay rights and marriage equality, and it boils down to whether the government can simply shrug and say they have a decent reason for doing something (rational basis) or whether something deserves strict scrutiny. In a lot of circumstances the legislative branch (and I guess now the executive as we get into more and more and more sweeping EOs) gets this deference and only has to show a rational basis.

If I were in the Trump administration and remotely competent (and, I guess, also an invisible unicorn who shits fro-yo if we're dreaming up mythical creatures) I would not expect that I'd be able to get a court to only apply rational basis to me after a year of pretty overt racist hollering. It's just too easy to point to a multitude of things making a statement that yes, we absolutely intend to single out this one religion. It's not impossible but - if I avoid taking my more current attitude of who the fuck knows anymore what will actually happen? - I don't see how even if you skate by one court you don't get overturned on appeal.

The one upside I see to the sorts of jurists that keep getting picked for the Supremes these days is that the righty ones are pretty emotionally attached to selling this image of the principled jurist who is So Very Serious about their methodology. They'll grind their ax when they can, for sure, but the Trumpist folks just can't help themselves in their misbehavior. Putting that in front of a Roberts or Gorsuch isn't going to get them a rubber stamp they might pull if they had some restraint. Scalia was willing to violate his principles on federalism when it came to weed, though her had to make a specious commerce clause claim to back it up, but that was twenty years into his career; I think that's gonna matter with these younger dudes and their egos and desire for legacy and image.
posted by phearlez at 11:48 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

so that's a strong start for the new hud secretary

Uncle Remus himself would be proud.
posted by Talez at 11:48 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Says they disagreed during campaign and will come together when they can.

It's I Hate You, Don't Leave Me: the reality show.
posted by holgate at 11:48 AM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

This seems to be the video of HUD Secretary Ben Carson addressing employees. Maybe that's where it's from?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:49 AM on March 6, 2017

Transcript: Ben Carson at HUD: “There were other immigrants who came here in the bottom of slave ships, worked even longer, even harder for less.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:50 AM on March 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

Coons: Senate intel committee to get access to 'raw data' on Russia

"I'm encouraged that this week, the Senate Intelligence Committee is getting access to the raw intelligence that is directly relevant to this Russia investigation," Coons said. "There is a significant body of data -- they will begin the process of accessing it, and I don't think anything is going to be made public.

More from Coons.

Democratic senator says they could shut down the government if Republicans stonewall on Russia investigation
posted by futz at 11:50 AM on March 6, 2017 [21 favorites]

If Mr. Khan wanted to try to go to the border with a news crew and lawyers in tow, that might be useful. But I can understand why he wouldn't want to bother.
posted by emjaybee at 11:50 AM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

From now on slaves shall be referred to as "involuntary immigrants".
posted by Justinian at 11:51 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Maybe that's where it's from?

i would verify but it's 40 minutes long and ben carson is ambien in human form
posted by murphy slaw at 11:52 AM on March 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

Spicer "getting into it" with American hero April Ryan.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:52 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

> I'm at the point where I'm encouraging all my close non-US friends and family to boycott US travel and goods if they can.

Me too. My family has cancelled a couple of trips to the U.S., but my sister and parents are still planning on camping in Michigan this summer and I'm forwarding every single one of these "Canadian gets hassled at the border" stories to them in the hope that they'll change their minds...partly because this is one of the most direct ways non-U.S. citizens can register their disapproval of what's going on, and partly because I honestly don't think it's safe for anyone.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:52 AM on March 6, 2017 [13 favorites]

The Federalist: Based on my conversations with multiple sources close to the effort, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) had indicated to congressional staff that the prior House framework could see at least 10 million, and potentially up to 20 million, individuals losing employer-sponsored health insurance.

The phrase employer-sponsored is easy to gloss over in there, but that's a huge huge problem. This isn't Medicaid coverage, which Republicans don't give a crap about preserving; this is millions of people losing coverage from their jobs. You know, the good jobs that come with health insurance that Republicans think every fine upstanding person should have and keep if they don't want to die. And now they're starting the mad scramble to try to rewrite the bill.
posted by zachlipton at 11:53 AM on March 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

Infowarze is a newsletter by Charlie Warzel, devoted to analyzing how the far right spins the week's news. Subscribe here.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 11:54 AM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Donald Trump? – I'd tap that.

Did not expect I would ever say that.
posted by Kabanos at 11:54 AM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

I would 10000% not be coming here for any reason. Man, save yourselves, rest-of-the-world. You don't want to deal with our bullshit right now. We'll call you when we've got this whole mess cleaned up, in about a decade or so.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:54 AM on March 6, 2017 [20 favorites]

Democratic senator says they could shut down the government if Republicans stonewall on Russia investigation

Unexpectedly spine-haver-like Dem behaviour!

If they can all successfully evolve vertebrae they'll fucking trample to jellyfish Repubs.
posted by Artw at 11:55 AM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Without speculating, Barron is widely assumed to have special needs. It's not his fault, and I don't care at all that my money is being spent to keep him in his school.

Gosh, that sounds like it'd be inconvenient for their family.

In keeping with standard practices, the White House requested and received resignations from all politically-appointed chiefs of mission shortly after Election Day, several senior State Department officials told CNN.

But, in a break with precedent to consider grace periods on a case-by-case basis, a subsequent State Department cable sent last month to all non-career ambassadors instructed them to finish their service by January 20 "without exceptions," the sources said.
...
The decision has also left diplomats scrambling to secure new visas, living arrangements and schools for their children, including Ambassador to Costa Rica Stafford Fitzgerald Haney, who diplomats say has four school-age children and a wife battling breast cancer. Mark Gilbert, the US ambassador to New Zealand told CNN he was denied a one-week extension after January 20 to finish packing his residence.

posted by kirkaracha at 11:55 AM on March 6, 2017 [60 favorites]

From now on slaves shall be referred to as "involuntary immigrants".

please, they were temporarily disadvantaged entrepreneurs. sheesh, liberals!
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:55 AM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Transcript: Ben Carson at HUD

Hesitant as I am to question a world-renowned neurosurgeon (who thinks solid pyramids were used for grain storage), is there any medical basis for the claim that you can drill into someone's head and stimulate a random neuron and they'll recite back to you verbatim a book they read 60 years ago?
posted by zachlipton at 11:56 AM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

I would 10000% not be coming here for any reason.

i dunno, if you're sufficiently white and you're coming to visit the national parks, it might be last chance to see
posted by murphy slaw at 11:56 AM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

on the theory that Deep State should have a college hoodie

Here's some ideas for logos.

Though I'd be personally partial to something like the University of Northern New Jersey (whose logo I have in vector for some reason). Something which would get you small nods from people in the know, and would be completely invisible to everyone else. Fnord.
posted by honestcoyote at 11:57 AM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

Fedward: The Deep State symbol could be the lectern in the style of the one the current POTUS uses. But the base is a mass of eyes, interwoven arms, and whispering lips.

I'm more interested in inventing their salute/secret handshake. I think we need to follow the inspiration from B5 where Bester used an iteration on the salute from The Prisoner. The Prisoner salute, of sorts, was the a-ok hand shape but looking through the index finger and thumb, with a be seeing you, which might have worked fifty years ago but c'mon, that's way too personal versus ubiquitous surveillance. Koenig moved the hand position to the forehead, presumably to signal the psychic abilities of his ilk.

I think for the deep state we need to put it behind our heads, to indicate the fabled mom eyes in the back of the head implication of you're never beyond our sight. The only problem is that it looks like a rooster comb and I don't want anyone to think it's some sort of cuck wordplay.
posted by phearlez at 11:57 AM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

tbh, the horribly worded statement about slavery is mostly a distraction from the fact that the new HUD secretary is rambling on about how people need to get help from their communities and themselves and not look to the government for handouts…
posted by murphy slaw at 11:59 AM on March 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

Talking to HUD employees Sec'y Ben Carson referred to slaves as immigrants, who dreamed of their families achieving prosperity and happiness --

@KevinMKruse
DeVos: "HBCUs were pioneers in school choice!"

Carson: "Hold my beer."
posted by chris24 at 12:02 PM on March 6, 2017 [88 favorites]

"I know Jeff Sessions very well, I know he’s a very honest man, a fair-minded guy," Toomey said.

*HIGH PITCHED SCREAMING INTENSIFIES*
posted by joyceanmachine at 12:03 PM on March 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

CNN: FBI Chief "Incredulous" Over Wiretap Claim. When Comey saw Trump tweet he was in a state of disbelief.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:04 PM on March 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

David Duke's twitter suspension has already ended.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:05 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

When Comey saw Trump tweet he was in a state of disbelief.

That's called cognitive dissonance, Comey. Welcome to America.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:05 PM on March 6, 2017 [13 favorites]

When Comey saw Trump tweet he was in a state of disbelief.

If you were surprised by this, I've got some bad news for you, Comey.

(Spoiler alert: you helped elect A CRAZY PERSON)
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:05 PM on March 6, 2017 [47 favorites]

idk i assume that is his normal state?
posted by poffin boffin at 12:05 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

When Comey saw Trump tweet he was in a state of disbelief.

So hand in your resignation saying that you can no longer serve an administration that peddles in falsehoods as fact you coward.
posted by PenDevil at 12:07 PM on March 6, 2017 [28 favorites]

(comey's assistant puts down a cup of coffee on his desk)

Comey: WHAT IS HAPPENING.

Comey: Better alert the press just to be sure.
posted by murphy slaw at 12:07 PM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

To do all of that while spending lavishly on himself -- while profiting directly from government spending that he himself directs -- is a rejection of the age-old notion of service to the country; it is a rejection of the idea of shared sacrifice in pursuance of the national good

So I've had this idea kind of percolating for some time, but I really think that Trump is exposing the flaws in our system of how we think about the presidency and how the laws and norms exist around the presidency - our notions of the office have been this kind of odd blend of monarch and citizen, for a long time. We want our President to not be put to shame by any monarchs - but we also don't want them to act like a monarch, even though we, in many ways, treat them like a monarch.

So the White House has state china, and tailored suits, and the wife and daughters are dressed in the height of fashion. They have servants enough for a monarch - cooks, personal trainers, gardeners, everything their heart could desire. More, even, and I think this is worth noting, than even the richest President could generally afford in private life, post WWI. But our Presidents over the last hundred years or so - really, since revolutions and serious economic unrest started happening - have all been very careful not to act like royalty. Even the ones who were already rich when they came into the office - in part, because the rich were also getting a little nervous and switching from ostentatious displays to quiet, understated things that didn't get them put on lists where nefarious bomb-throwing anarchists (or whoever the economic boogeyman might be) might decide to pay a visit.

Trump has decided for a long time that he wants to live the lifestyle of The Rich. That's why he's been the Billionaire Cameo for so many years in shitty movies, that's why he brands everything and plates everything with gold. He's living off an image he got, maybe when he was a kid, of What Rich People Live Like. But it's just not accurate anymore. The rich now try very hard to blend in, so as not to be targeted. And whatever the actual amount of money he has, I think he is reminding people with his very existence that the Presidency can actually be quite a lavish lifestyle, if you're not committed to this kind of public solemnness that has been the mode for the last century. And with his complete lack of dedication to statesmanship, it's like we've just realized that we let this guy make himself essentially our king for no benefit, and we've remembered that Americans, on the whole, don't really like kings that much.

I mean, there's a whole host of other shitty stuff about Donald Trump. But I do think that the lavish lifestyle stuff would probably be bothering people at least on a subconscious level even if he weren't a monster.
posted by corb at 12:11 PM on March 6, 2017 [80 favorites]

When Comey saw Trump tweet he was in a state of disbelief.

"I figured when he said he wanted me to be the last director of the FBI, he didn't mean, like... ever."
posted by Etrigan at 12:11 PM on March 6, 2017

CNN: FBI Chief "Incredulous" Over Wiretap Claim. When Comey saw Trump tweet he was in a state of disbelief.

Local man amazed face eating leopard would eat face of man who elected him.
posted by chris24 at 12:14 PM on March 6, 2017 [32 favorites]

honestcoyote, I'm not cleared for any of that.
posted by fedward at 12:15 PM on March 6, 2017

I don't even know if this is illegal but it sure is gross:

Trump/Pence 2020 is fundraising based on today's Executive Order
posted by murphy slaw at 12:15 PM on March 6, 2017 [13 favorites]

I mean, there's a whole host of other shitty stuff about Donald Trump. But I do think that the lavish lifestyle stuff would probably be bothering people at least on a subconscious level even if he weren't a monster.

There was a lot of blowback to the Obama girls wearing couture last year. Of course, that was for an entirely different reason.
posted by mochapickle at 12:16 PM on March 6, 2017 [20 favorites]

I only know Trump from the internet and TV, and yet somehow I still have not been surprised by anything he's done since the election.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:17 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

So the White House has state china, and tailored suits, and the wife and daughters are dressed in the height of fashion. They have servants enough for a monarch - cooks, personal trainers, gardeners, everything their heart could desire. More, even, and I think this is worth noting, than even the richest President could generally afford in private life, post WWI. But our Presidents over the last hundred years or so - really, since revolutions and serious economic unrest started happening - have all been very careful not to act like royalty

Then again, so have some royals.

King Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands puts on standard issue finery for state occasions.

The rest of the time he commutes to one palace for his office while living in a relatively unassuming suburban house.
posted by ocschwar at 12:17 PM on March 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

I would really like to know ... whether Ivanka Trump has been granted a security clearance to view classified material?

Since Ivanka and Jared don't hold official government jobs, they don't require security clearances. Clearance requirements are attached to the job, not a person.

The President has unilateral authority to disclose classified information to anyone on a "need to know" basis without requiring a formal security clearance. So if Trump invites Ivanka and Jared into the room where classified information is to be discussed, presumably he has decided that they have a need to know. That's all it takes.
posted by JackFlash at 12:18 PM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

The President also has unilateral authority to declassify information, does he not?
posted by Justinian at 12:19 PM on March 6, 2017

oh, and that fundraising letter refers to "six countries compromised by radical Islamic terrorism" so i think they managed to shoot themselves in the foot about it not being a muslim ban again.
posted by murphy slaw at 12:19 PM on March 6, 2017 [21 favorites]

Jared is celebrating Shabbos.

with the same intense dedication with which Trump venerates the Sermon on the Mount, i'm sure...
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 12:20 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

The President has unilateral authority to disclose classified information to anyone on a "need to know" basis without requiring a formal security clearance. So if Trump invites Ivanka and Jared into the room where classified information is to be discussed, presumably he has decided that they have a need to know. That's all it takes.

Well isn't that fantastic.

Imagine the utter shitfit Putin's Pets in Congress would have had if President Obama had decided to share information in that manner with his wife or daughters. Same for either of the Clintons disclosing to their daughter.

The hypocrisy makes me want to smash or rip things up.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:22 PM on March 6, 2017 [31 favorites]

Jared is celebrating Shabbos.

This just popped into my head. No idea why.
posted by pxe2000 at 12:24 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

We're only about 6 weeks in to a 208 week Presidency. Buckle up, folks.
posted by Justinian at 12:25 PM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

The rich now try very hard to blend in, so as not to be targeted.

I'm not sure that's exactly true, and the whole "Rich Kids of Instagram" thing has exposed the ostentatious side a little. What the rich can do is live parallel lives: private jets instead of first class, private islands instead of the best room in the hotel, private clubs and VIP rooms, free shit from designer brands, etc. For sure, the NYC kajillionaire crowd has its social norms and charity fundraisers and whatnot, but if you want to live a blinged-out existence as the spawn of an oligarch, it's a lot easier to do so now.

But the rest of the point definitely stands: the New Year public reception at the White House lasted till 1932. There is a basic assumption that if you accept the job, you accept both the ceremonial responsibilities of being head of state and that you're a public servant.
posted by holgate at 12:26 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

208 weeks, six days. Not that I'm counting.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:27 PM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

I think the question is how CBP will handle it though.

We know exactly how CBP will handle it: by capriciously denying entry to whomever they choose. When a progressive government returns to power, one of the first tasks must be to purge CBP and ICE of the fucking racists. And I mean purge: fire and prosecute.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:30 PM on March 6, 2017 [56 favorites]

CNN: FBI Chief "Incredulous" Over Wiretap Claim. When Comey saw Trump tweet he was in a state of disbelief.

FBI Chief Comey turned away at border to the State of Disbelief by guards. Told to apply for a Tourist Visa.
posted by srboisvert at 12:30 PM on March 6, 2017 [61 favorites]

We're only about 6 weeks in to a 208 week Presidency.

That's a tad optimistic, I think.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:37 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

>The President has unilateral authority to disclose classified information to anyone on a "need to know" basis ...

>Well isn't that fantastic.

Before you get all exercised, realize that every member of congress, not matter how stupid, (Louie Gohmert), does not require a security clearance to view classified material. That does not mean they have free access to anything they want, just that they don't require a background check before viewing classified material in the scope of their work.
posted by JackFlash at 12:39 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

That's a tad optimistic, I think.

Optimistic for Trump, or optimistic for the nation?
posted by dhens at 12:39 PM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

Rykey: This is what really makes me scratch my head. Investigations don't just go away when you switch to a new scandal. Surprised nobody's ever told him that.

He cares about personal attention and comments about him, not investigations. His media message is what matters, and I can imagine he plans to pay whatever fines it is he expects he'll be charged and consider it a cost of doing business. As long as there's something new and shiny for people to discuss, and he can brush off the investigation by pointing another direction, he's happy.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:42 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Aimée Lutkin: Supreme Court Rules That Juror Secrecy Doesn't Apply in Cases of Racial Bias

Statements made by jurors during deliberations are generally protected by from being made public by fellow jurors. On Monday, the Supreme Court ruled that this protection will no longer exist in cases where jurors exhibited racial or ethnic bias.

The decision was based on the Sixth Amendment’s guarantee of an impartial jury, reports the New York Times, in reference to the case of Peña Rodriguez v. Colorado. In 2010, Miguel Angel Peña Rodriguez was convicted of three misdemeanors and the jury deadlocked on a felony charge in his sexual assault case. He served two years probation. After the trial, several jurors submitted sworn statements to the defense that while the jury made their decision one juror stated, “I think he did it because he’s Mexican, and Mexican men take whatever they want.”

Only three justices—Samuel A. Alito Jr., John G. Roberts Jr., and Clarence Thomas—ruled against Monday’s decision.

tl;dr Roberts, Alito, and Thomas once again refuse to believe that institutional racism is still a thing.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:45 PM on March 6, 2017 [54 favorites]

I'm afraid that what might have happened is that he rightfully got cold feet about travelling out of country right after the EO, so he communicated something like that to the Toronto group.

He's a lawyer.

I'll bet the proverbial dollar he has retained a lawyer of his own, and made things purposefully vague.

I doubt it's the Canadian government that's reviewing his right to cross the border.

I also doubt there;'s any official action communicated to him from the US government.

What's more likely is that he got a tip off that he's liable to get hassled by the CBP when he crosses back, and he issued this statement in hopes of forcing an explicit denial from the CBP.
posted by ocschwar at 12:46 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

The Deep State symbol could be the lectern in the style of the one the current POTUS uses. But the base is a mass of eyes, interwoven arms, and whispering lips.

The National Reconaissance Office has already provided a perfectly good symbol.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:50 PM on March 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

Surely Total Information Awareness would also be a good fit.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:51 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

I wonder how I would have reacted if told that one of my fundamental constitutional rights were being "reviewed" by the State or some shadowy element thereof.

Scared? Confused? Frustrated? Angry as hell? Yes, to all of these.

It would certainly be a chilling influence on exercising my constitutional rights in the future. Just being told that your rights are being "reviewed" is, itself, a violation of constitutional liberty, even if a review never happens or if a review comes back favorable.
posted by darkstar at 12:56 PM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

Art Break:

From Plastic Jesus: Signs Designating "Future Internment Camp" Go Up At Empty Lots Nationwide

From christhebarker: #faketoys, for all your Bannon et al. action figure needs.

At what point does the massive chilling effect on tourism, business travel, conferences, etc that CBP's fascist actions will have lead to them being reined in?

Guardian (Feb 28): US tourism experiences a 'Trump slump'

Analysts estimate that President Trump has cost the US travel industry $185m in lost revenue, with significant drop in flight searches and bookings
posted by Room 641-A at 12:59 PM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

Before you get all exercised, realize that every member of congress, not matter how stupid, (Louie Gohmert), does not require a security clearance to view classified material. That does not mean they have free access to anything they want, just that they don't require a background check before viewing classified material in the scope of their work.

These situations are not congruous, in my mind.

Louis Gohmert, unlike Ivanka Trump, is an elected member of the government. Gohmert, as you say, does not have access to whatever he wants. He is, theoretically, accountable to his constituents, if should mishandle classified information.

Ivanka Trump is not elected and seems only accountable to her father, not to voters. I think it is very fair to be asking these questions about her access to sensitive material. As has come up in these threads before, if some random intelligence analyst just tells their kid whatever they feel they 'need-to-know', there will be serious consequences. While a president has substantial statutory authority to declassify information, I really don't have reason to believe that it was so that person could share it with their immediate family.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:02 PM on March 6, 2017 [27 favorites]

"The time for trivial fights is behind us." -- Presidential President Donald J. Trump, Millionaire, last Tuesday
posted by kirkaracha at 1:11 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Wow, those "Future Internment Camp" signs are something else.

I love someone going out and hanging them, but won't The Worst People just...take them as an encouraging sign? *shudder*
posted by wenestvedt at 1:16 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Trump tells Planned Parenthood it can keep federal funding if it gets rid of abortion
PP says no.
posted by emjaybee at 1:18 PM on March 6, 2017 [70 favorites]

I love someone going out and hanging them, but won't The Worst People just...take them as an encouraging sign? *shudder*

FWIW, those same people were freaking out about Obama's Internment Camps for 8 full years, so it fits their cognitive framing.

It sucks when excellent satire is lost on people who accept it as reality.

With that said, the Israeli Government's Law of Return has never been of greater comfort than it has been during past 4 months...
posted by mikelieman at 1:19 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

Room 641-A: Guardian (Feb 28): US tourism experiences a 'Trump slump'

Analysts estimate that President Trump has cost the US travel industry $185m in lost revenue, with significant drop in flight searches and bookings

And that's only a month in, before the flood of stories of people who had thought "I'll be fine to enter the U.S., I'm not from a banned country" found out that nope, it's racists "guarding" all the borders.

Expect a major hit to tourism, health care (How much is your community served by doctors trained in one of the banned countries? via zombieflanders), tech sector jobs/ businesses, local restaurants (via SecretAgentSockpuppet), higher education institutions, and on and on....

Trump tells Planned Parenthood it can keep federal funding if it gets rid of abortion
PP says no.

Another swing and a miss at a deal for the Master Business Guru.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:20 PM on March 6, 2017 [34 favorites]

The proposal, which was never made formally,

What does that mean? Did Trump slide into their DMs?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:20 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

NY Times: Trump Tells Planned Parenthood Its Funding Can Stay if Abortion Goes

The only time a Republican understands the word fungible is when discussing PP funding.
posted by mikelieman at 1:21 PM on March 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

I have just been informed that I made a horrible mistake in my rant about Trump and state debt. I was off by an order of magnitude and was reading the state debt numbers as millions, not billions.

All 48 months of the Trump presidency, assuming he continues his current lavish spending on himself, will amount to only sightly more than the state debt of Wyoming.

Many apologies for my error and I hope no one cited my horribly wrong numbers elsewhere.
posted by sotonohito at 1:22 PM on March 6, 2017 [34 favorites]

The only time a Republican understands the word fungible is when discussing PP funding.

No. There's also the debate over weed for personal use.
posted by Talez at 1:24 PM on March 6, 2017

the same intense dedication with which Trump venerates the Sermon on the Mount

"Blessed are the meek, because I can exploit them mercilessly."
posted by Coventry at 1:26 PM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

Trump tells Planned Parenthood it can keep federal funding if it gets rid of abortion

Fascinating. Why would the Republicans want to bargain if they felt they had the upper hand?
posted by Gelatin at 1:29 PM on March 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

I'm just one Irish datapoint but as soon as he was elected we decided as a family no more USA tourism, as far as I am concerned this is an apartheid nation

I WILL NOT spend my hard earned money there, I refuse to attend health conferences, (Oh ASME MIAMI sigh!) and I am boycotting as many US companies as I can...
posted by Wilder at 1:29 PM on March 6, 2017 [21 favorites]

Because making abortion unavailable, while still legal, has been working GREAT for Republicans. This is more of the same.
posted by agregoli at 1:33 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Wisconsin detransitioning state employees: 1 – The employee must notify ETF (Employee Trust Fund, the state’s administrative board) directly, providing their old and new names, old and new gender markers, ETF ID number, and a declaration that they are gender transitioning. (Previously, employees notified HR at their place of employment, and employer HR staff changed the gender marker directly in the benefits system. But now ETF will centralize control over implementing transitions, and maintain a database of gender transitioners. In essence, we are being required to register with the state.)

2 – Trans people are required to provide “proof of identity,” such as a driver’s license or military ID showing the new name and gender marker. (This is the easiest one for people who have already transitioned.)

3 – Trans people must produce “proof of gender.” These options include (a) a correctly gendered passport, (b) a court order – often requiring proof of genital surgery, such as in WI, or (c) a birth certificate which is correctly gendered.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:33 PM on March 6, 2017 [18 favorites]

Random comment on local politics: so instead of replying to my Republican state representative's survey that skewed conservative (no, the biggest problems with our poor state's economy are not #1 Crime and #2 Government Regulations), I emailed him, and today he replied! He actually took the time to reply, citing one house bill and writing that he'll pursue another issue. Good on him.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:34 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

"Blessed are the meek, because I can exploit them mercilessly."

You just reminded me of the great Marsha Warfield routine: Yeah, the meek will inherit the earth. But let's see how long they can keep it. C'mon - They're meek.
posted by Mchelly at 1:37 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Alexandria City Public Schools will be closed Wednesday after more than 300 staff members requested the day off.

The “unusually high number” of call-outs may be connected with the “Day Without a Woman” nationwide protest and social media campaign, school superintendent Alvin Crawley said in a statement.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:41 PM on March 6, 2017 [32 favorites]

I hope no one cited my horribly wrong numbers elsewhere.

*frantically calls poster factory to cancel 100,000-piece order*
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:42 PM on March 6, 2017 [21 favorites]

The employee must notify ETF (Employee Trust Fund, the state’s administrative board) directly, providing their old and new names, old and new gender markers, ETF ID number, and a declaration that they are gender transitioning. (Previously, employees notified HR at their place of employment, and employer HR staff changed the gender marker directly in the benefits system. But now ETF will centralize control over implementing transitions, and maintain a database of gender transitioners. In essence, we are being required to register with the state.)

This is such fucking bullshit. What can we do from California other than encourage trans individuals to retire early, take the full payout pension and move to California?
posted by Sophie1 at 1:42 PM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

It's a bit of a slow moment (I know, I know) so please indulge me:

I took my 9 year old to see the Lego Batman movie a few weeks ago, and it worked out to be quite a lot of fun. Dense, frenetic, overstuffed with jokes for the adults, and still managing to convey a "we all need to work together" message ... not bad. And then at the end, Executive Producer: Steven Mnuchin. Yeah, that Steven Mnuchin, now Trump's Treasury Secretary. Ugh!

Then I finally got around to watching The Accountant via Netflix, and that was fun too. Not great, problematic in many ways, but fun. And then, again, unexpectedly - Executive Producer: Steven Mnuchin.

What the heck??? Now I have to check on Executive Producer credits in advance so that I don't feel pissed off after watching a movie?
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:47 PM on March 6, 2017 [18 favorites]

RedOrGreen: Now I have to check on Executive Producer credits so that I don't feel pissed off after watching a movie?

Damnit, just another example of how the GOP is in bed with Hollywood. Drain the ... oh wait, wasn't it supposed to be the Dems who were too cozy with the Hollywood Elite and didn't understand the Real People of this country?
posted by filthy light thief at 1:52 PM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

IMDb: Steven Mnuchin
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:54 PM on March 6, 2017

FWIW an executive producer is usually just an investor with no creative control over the project. He's a guy with a lot of money and producing a movie is often a loss, which can be useful for tax purposes. /derail
posted by fedward at 1:58 PM on March 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

Also in movie news: Get Me Roger Stone

trying to decide if I should send a message by cancelling Netflix, or if there's some upside to the #Stonezone getting a doc
posted by Existential Dread at 1:58 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

a) whether Ivanka Trump has been granted a security clearance to view classified material?

No.

Security clearances are only granted to government employees. No official job = no official clearance. ("The Bureau of Human Resources determines if a Department of State position requires a security clearance based on the duties and responsibilities of the position. If the position requires access to classified information, the position will be given an appropriate security classification. Individuals applying to these positions must undergo a personnel security background investigation.")

Of course, there's not a lot of oversight going on to make sure that nobody gives classified documents to her without clearance.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:58 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

If I have to cancel Netflix, the terrorists have well and truly won.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:59 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

And that's only a month in, before the flood of stories of people who had thought "I'll be fine to enter the U.S., I'm not from a banned country" found out that nope, it's racists "guarding" all the borders.

Something suggested above, that I think is worth highlighting: it's not only race; the CBP also seem to have discovered a healthy appetite for harassing anyone who they perceive as an "elite" (professors, software engineers, artists).
posted by thelonius at 1:59 PM on March 6, 2017 [24 favorites]

It's a bit of a slow moment (I know, I know) so please indulge me:

I took my 9 year old to see the Lego Batman movie a few weeks ago, and it worked out to be quite a lot of fun. Dense, frenetic, overstuffed with jokes for the adults, and still managing to convey a "we all need to work together" message ... not bad. And then at the end, Executive Producer: Steven Mnuchin. Yeah, that Steven Mnuchin, now Trump's Treasury Secretary. Ugh!

Then I finally got around to watching The Accountant via Netflix, and that was fun too. Not great, problematic in many ways, but fun. And then, again, unexpectedly - Executive Producer: Steven Mnuchin.

What the heck??? Now I have to check on Executive Producer credits in advance so that I don't feel pissed off after watching a movie?
posted by RedOrGreen at 5:47 AM on March 7 [2 favorites +] [!]

Evil rich schmucks throw money at everything, so much that they're part of the ecosystem. You're allowed to like a movie he greenlighted at a meeting once, which is more likely than not just him giving the nod to whatever story idea topped the list of projects he was approving that day, and still despise him for what he does in government.

It's like if you try to boycott Chinese products. Capital gets too big for individual actors to make a difference alone sometimes, which is why we have tools like protest, the media, government, and laws to stop them. For your own peace of mind, use those levers (as ineffective as they might seem at the moment), and don't shake your fist at the credits.
posted by saysthis at 2:02 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

I took my 9 year old to see the Lego Batman movie a few weeks ago, and it worked out to be quite a lot of fun.

I thought Lego Batman, in addition to being lots of fun, was one of the best Batman movies in terms of examining the character.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:05 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

> Something suggested above, that I think is worth highlighting: it's not only race; the CBP also seem to have discovered a healthy appetite for harassing anyone who they perceive as an "elite" (professors, software engineers, artists).

Yeah, I'm living in the US at the moment as a (privileged, middle class, white) Brit on an E-1 Visa. I've already decided I won't be leaving the US (because I don't know if I'll get back in) between now and either the end of the contract, or the end of my visa, whichever comes first.
posted by Nice Guy Mike at 2:06 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

The National Park Service Has Released Official Photos Of Trump’s Inauguration Crowd
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:08 PM on March 6, 2017 [61 favorites]

Also in movie news: Get Me Roger Stone

trying to decide if I should send a message by cancelling Netflix, or if there's some upside to the #Stonezone getting a doc

The Sleeping Giants feed had some tweets about it this morning, it sounds like he's not benefitting, directly at least, from the documentary.
posted by strange chain at 2:10 PM on March 6, 2017

The National Park Service Has Released Official Photos Of Trump’s Inauguration Crowd

brb ugly witch cackling
posted by poffin boffin at 2:11 PM on March 6, 2017 [29 favorites]

WaPo: Trump’s revised travel ban is still cruel and still unconstitutional
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:13 PM on March 6, 2017 [16 favorites]

The White House didn't just put out a release praising Exxon that looked like Exxon PR wrote it; they copy/pasted a whole paragraph that came from an Exxon press release.
posted by zachlipton at 2:16 PM on March 6, 2017 [77 favorites]

the Israeli Government's Law of Return has never been of greater comfort than it has been during past 4 months...

If Jews aren't safe in the USA then they're probably not going to be safe in Israel either. Israel's primary threat is Iran and its clients, and Iran is more or less backed by Trump's Russian BFF. Russia has already supplied the Syrian regime with its S300 air defense system, which is an excellent countermeasure against the long-distance tactics that Israel relies on. It's speculated that Israel has only been able to operate in Syrian airspace with Russian consent, implicitly because Russia doesn't want the complications of a war between its ally, Iran, and an ally of the USA.

Trump hasn't come out and said that he wouldn't have Israel's back, but considering what he's said about NATO I don't think Israel could rely on US support in a crisis. Also, he's apparently in business with oligarchs tied to Iran’s Revolutionary Guard and I presume that he's as open to pressure from that front as he has been to Russia. Without the USA's implicit support Israel would be in a very weak position against a far larger opponent with enormous strategic depth. The prognosis would not be good.

If it's any consolation, though, Israel was always about self-determination and citizenship; any added safety has always been contingent and not guaranteed.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:18 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

And Khizr Khan's vague statements have forced the CBP to respond, albeit with nothing informative.

I expect Mr. Khan and his attorney to move another pawn on the board tomorrow, and force another statement, and so on, until the CBP is trolled into making clear just what the fuck they meant to do the guy.
posted by ocschwar at 2:18 PM on March 6, 2017 [29 favorites]

> the thing i don't get about trump and twitter is - does he actually read his mentions?

I don't know how twitter handles mentions for high volume accounts (has he gotten into an argument on there with someone before news of their tweet showed up in other media?), but I assume for the most part he just sits on the "Me" tab refreshing the likes. You could probably influence his tweeting slightly if you had a large enough egg bot army to give him positive reinforcement for the less mental ones.
posted by lucidium at 2:18 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Four Republican Senators (Portman, Capito, Gardner, Murkowski) put out a letter stating that they'll oppose the House healthcare bill and any plan that screws over Medicaid expansion. Losing four Senators is enough to make any plan that remotely looks like the current House plan dead on arrival in the Senate.
posted by zachlipton at 2:19 PM on March 6, 2017 [77 favorites]

If Jews aren't safe in the USA then they're probably not going to be safe in Israel either.

The issue isn't safety so much as dignity. Being attacked from outside, by an enemy, is totally different from being betrayed by your own government.

When Jews start migrating from a country into Israel, rockets from Hamas do nothing to slow the migration.
posted by ocschwar at 2:19 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

from the Raw Story Link: “U.S. Customs & Border Protection does not contact travelers in advance of their travel out of the United States,” the federal agency said. “With respect to Global Entry or trusted traveler membership, CBP’s engagement is about the status of membership in the program, not any particular travel itself. Of course, any US citizen with a passport may travel without trusted traveler status.”

So maybe this was about the expedited TSA/Global Entry stuff.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:22 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

I believe confirmed users with the blue tick can set it tio only see other confirmed users - I seem to remember there's some indication he does check that?

Which is fucking nuts, really.
posted by Artw at 2:24 PM on March 6, 2017

Here is Jeff Sessions' statement on amending his testimony.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:25 PM on March 6, 2017

okay so the best response to that "ben carson makes insane claims about memory and the hippocampus" thread is this:

As a physician myself, let me translate: "I don't know shit about housing."

posted by murphy slaw at 2:26 PM on March 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

So maybe this was about the expedited TSA/Global Entry stuff.

I doubt it.

My gut is that he got a tipoff that the CBP intended to fuck with him like they've been fucking with random citizens in recent weeks, and he decided to squeeze a denial out of them before he resumed traveling.
posted by ocschwar at 2:26 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

CBC confirmed that Khan's travel priv were under review, as per that same Raw Story, unless I'm reading it wrong

I believe you are reading that wrong.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:27 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

CBC still won't even say which country is reviewing what "privileges."

CBC knows nothing more than what Messrs. Khan and Ramsay have said.
posted by ocschwar at 2:28 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Here is Jeff Sessions' statement on amending his testimony.

Do you want to change your bullshit story, sir?
posted by kirkaracha at 2:28 PM on March 6, 2017

Nope, it's still bullshit.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:29 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Ben Carson is off on some weird tangent, unsurprisingly. Dude is completely full of shit even when it comes to neurosurgery, how the fuck can anybody trust him on housing?
posted by tobascodagama at 6:10 AM on March 7 [+] [!]

I'm sure he lives in housing, so obviously we can trust him. Besides, why wouldn't you store grain in the pyramids? They're dry, empty, and put hoodoo on robbers. In fact, I demand open carry laws for hand pyramids, and immediate tax relief for hippocampuses losing their skulls to Obama's predatory lending practices. Just like we have houses, so do our brains, and I can't even anymore I'm sorry WHAT DID I JUST HEAR
posted by saysthis at 2:30 PM on March 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

Here is Jeff Sessions' statement on amending his testimony.

So is that how we do things now? We commit perjury, get caught, and submit a written do-over and we get full credit and no prosecution for the new answer? After we've already won the case/gotten the job/passed the test/whatever?
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:30 PM on March 6, 2017 [37 favorites]

okay, so, unsurprisingly, Sessions is bullshitting his head off right out of the gate:

I did not mention communications I had had with the Russian ambassador over the years because the question did not ask about them.

the question didn't ask about them and yet you decided to offer, unsolicited, the information that you had not spoken to any members of the Russian government, you insufferable chucklefuck
posted by murphy slaw at 2:30 PM on March 6, 2017 [64 favorites]

CBP didn't confirm anything. They randomly mentioned Trusted Traveler programs (e.g. Global Entry), which might be relevant. If I were Khan and I got told something was up with my Global Entry membership, I'd be pretty spooked about trying to re-enter the country one way or another. And it's not really even clear why CBP mentioned Trusted Traveler programs, since that never came up earlier.

In short, we still have no real idea what's going on other than the fact that the guy responsible for his speech said something that makes no sense, and we probably won't unless and until Khan makes a statement.
posted by zachlipton at 2:31 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

CBO: Obamacare Costing The Feds A Third Less Than Expected

From the article: "The Supreme Court's decision in 2012 to make Medicaid expansion optional for states also "significantly reduced projected costs," Hall said."

Yeah, counting all the states that refused to expand Medicaid as "savings" would certainly make for a big number. Honestly, I'm surprised it isn't even bigger, but it's a pretty crap indicator for whether it's bringing healthcare costs under control.
posted by indubitable at 2:31 PM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

In short, we still have no real idea what's going on

I know one thing:

That's the idea.

We've had the CBP acting in an arbitrary and capricious manner against travelers, including children, including US citizens, including children who are US citizens.

Ever since Customs merged with the Border patrol, we've had the professionals in Customs mixed in with the scumbags of the Border Patrol, and you know the saying about bad apples. Now the CBP has been eager to show its willingness to be the president's goon squad.

Khan is trying to check this fuckers by making them speak about their intentions. I hope he succeeds.
posted by ocschwar at 2:35 PM on March 6, 2017 [23 favorites]

That written answer only talks about one of his responses to one of the questions about Russian contacts.

How about this one?

SEN. AL FRANKEN: "If there was any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this (2016) campaign, what would you do?," the Minnesota Democrat asked.

SESSIONS: "I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians."

And how about his answering "no" to the question about Russian contacts in his written response during the confirmation hearings?
posted by diogenes at 2:37 PM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

Randomly, as I try to catch up on things:

1). I'm now 100% sure it's Carson who thinks that Frederick Douglass is still alive (a second-generation immigrant success story!) and mentioned it to DJT

2). This bullshit with hassling Canadian citizens at the border. I'm guessing that daily cross-border traffic drives a not-insubstantial amount of the economy in many cities in NY, MI, WA, in particular? Along with the stories about how mom-and-pop places near Mar-a-lago are getting screwed because of DJT's addiction to the place, I'd love for there to be far, far more publicity about how these local industries and independent business are suffering because of DJT's policies; it's a far more concrete way to present the economic precarity of Republican choices than the lazy and untrue "think of the poor white people--Democratic elitists won't reach out!" narrative that's been dominating the news since November.
posted by TwoStride at 2:37 PM on March 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

I did not mention communications I had had with the Russian ambassador over the years because the question did not ask about them.

since this all came about because he fucking SPONTANEOUSLY OFFERED UP A STATEMENT ABOUT NOT TALKING TO THE RUSSIANS AND NOT ANSWERING TEH QUESTION, this such a fucking bullshit wesel lawyer dodge specifically aimed at the lowest common denominator of telling the truth.

it makes Pat Toomey's not-a-townhall comment today about Sessions being a "very honest man" extra hateful.
posted by joyceanmachine at 2:38 PM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

If someone has a minute, can you link me to a document or a link that shows why following anything Louise Mensch says is garbage?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:38 PM on March 6, 2017

But seriously does amending his testimony mean that he didn't commit perjury now?
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:40 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

CBO: Obamacare Costing The Feds A Third Less Than Expected

From the article: "The Supreme Court's decision in 2012 to make Medicaid expansion optional for states also "significantly reduced projected costs," Hall said."

Yeah, counting all the states that refused to expand Medicaid as "savings" would certainly make for a big number. Honestly, I'm surprised it isn't even bigger, but it's a pretty crap indicator for whether it's bringing healthcare costs under control.

1) While that is "from the article" the text earlier in the article indicated there were more medi* savings.

2) There's nothing in the article that I saw indicating this was doing anything to bend the cost curve.

3) The actual total cost of the plan as its unfolding is highly pertinent as the congress talks about repeal. If it's costing less then that's an even greater deficit they have to make up if they were to simply wipe it all out. That's where this matters, not as an indicator of reducing health care costs.
posted by phearlez at 2:42 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

But seriously does amending his testimony mean that he didn't commit perjury now?

It's called a do-over and it's what made America great. If rich white men can't be offered a second chance then nobody can.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:42 PM on March 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

And what does being surprised by the question have to do with anything if you're perfectly happy with your answer?
posted by diogenes at 2:43 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Here's Sec. Kelly (DHS) outright agreeing that he's considering separating children from their parents who cross the border "to deter" families, citing the danger of smuggling networks. He literally says: "They will be well cared for as we deal with their parents."

This is truly monstrous.
posted by zachlipton at 2:46 PM on March 6, 2017 [64 favorites]

So is that how we do things now? We commit perjury, get caught, and submit a written do-over and we get full credit and no prosecution for the new answer? After we've already won the case/gotten the job/passed the test/whatever?

IOKIYAR, he was never resigning anyway. Sessions is both the lynchpin of all of Trumpism and the one who will block any actual investigations or prosecutions.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:46 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

But seriously does amending his testimony mean that he didn't commit perjury now?

al franken forgot to say "no backsies" so it's kind of his fault
posted by entropicamericana at 2:47 PM on March 6, 2017 [42 favorites]

> I'd love for there to be far, far more publicity about how these local industries and independent business are suffering because of DJT's policies

I'd love that, too, but it would probably be spun as "how these local industries and independent businesses are suffering because those no-good foreigners think they're better than us."
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:50 PM on March 6, 2017

Who ultimately gets to decide if Sessions lied while under oath?
posted by diogenes at 2:50 PM on March 6, 2017

Who ultimately gets to decide if Sessions lied while under oath?

I'm thinkin Attorney General Merrick Garland circa 2022
posted by saturday_morning at 2:54 PM on March 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

well, everyone, really. It's out there, he did it, it was blatant, the excuses don't change that.

Who gets to decide if there are consequences?
posted by Artw at 2:54 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Who ultimately gets to decide if Sessions lied while under oath?

I know there's like a million other shitty things happening right now, but this is the one that gets me. He took an oath. He outright lied. We saw it. There's video. It happened. This is a "Petruchio telling Kate the sun is the moon" moment here. Sessions lied. It shouldn't be a matter of somebody deciding he lied. Its objective reality.

But, of course, you're also right that somebody somewhere in the Republican party has decided that this lie isn't a lie and thus Sessions must not be held accountable for it. Fuck them all in their lying liar lie holes.

Who gets to decide if there are consequences?

Some white dudes.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:55 PM on March 6, 2017 [43 favorites]

"They will be well cared for as we deal with their parents."

That's horrifying. Is there any way to spin this to Trumpists as "free childcare for illegal immigrants" that will make them oppose the proposed separations? Or would that just make them rally to get the government to just abandon or otherwise harm the kids?

There is no planet on which this is okay. It should go without saying that it's unAmerican.
posted by Mchelly at 2:56 PM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

Somebody needs to brand that Sec. Kelly the "Sophie's Choice Commandant" ASAP.
posted by valkane at 2:56 PM on March 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

Who ultimately gets to decide if Sessions lied while under oath?

McDonnell must not be allowed to go out in public without people seeing him saying "Sessions perjured himself in front of you. You have no honor."
posted by ocschwar at 2:56 PM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

Somebody needs to brand that Sec. Kelly the "Sophie's Choice" commandant ASAP.

He went full Hitler.
posted by Artw at 2:58 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm guessing that daily cross-border traffic drives a not-insubstantial amount of the economy in many cities in NY, MI, WA, in particular?

For sure in Buffalo/Niagara. Malls are usually full of Ontario plates; like, just to the eyeballs, easily a quarter of the cars.

AFAIK that was down lately because the exchange rate is bad for Canadians and because they finally finished the outlet mall on their side, but this shit can't help. Especially not with the target market in Tronna being (a) so diverse and brown and (b) often being Canadian LPRs instead of citizens.

Pretty sure Trump/Bannon don't give a fuck what happens to Buffalo, or any other city in NY, though.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:58 PM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

1) While that is "from the article" the text earlier in the article indicated there were more medi* savings.

I'm not sure what point you're making here. The non-expansions were counted under Medicaid savings. This is unambiguous.

2) There's nothing in the article that I saw indicating this was doing anything to bend the cost curve.

The article title itself says, "Costing Feds Less Than Expected", which is the only text produced in that poster's comment linking to it. That certainly sounds like "bending the cost curve" or "saving money" or whatever.
posted by indubitable at 2:59 PM on March 6, 2017

I don't rly have anything to worry about traveling to Sweden in May, do I? Should I just keep my phone off at the airport so they can't go through it?
posted by gucci mane at 3:01 PM on March 6, 2017

Gucci mane - if you are an immigrant and/or any shade that might be considered brown, get a burner phone and put nothing on it but the contacts you actually need. Turning your phone off won't do anything to protect you. LMK if you need any assistance or more info.
posted by Sophie1 at 3:17 PM on March 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

House Republicans release long-awaited plan to repeal and replace Obamacare
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 3:18 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

BTW, this is completely serious advice and what I plan to do when I travel, even domestically until he's out of office.
posted by Sophie1 at 3:19 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

1) While that is "from the article" the text earlier in the article indicated there were more medi* savings.

I'm not sure what point you're making here. The non-expansions were counted under Medicaid savings. This is unambiguous.

No, they were not counted as "medicaid savings." The opening graf of the article is about as clear as it can be.

The Congressional Budget Office said Friday that its projections for the federal government's spending on the Affordable Care Act's coverage provisions in 2019 are now a third lower than what they were when the law was passed in 2010.

The point here, made clear by this graf and by the following one that discussed that it was in response to CBO questions, is that the total cost to the government as a result of the ACA's requirements are lower than previously expected.

2) There's nothing in the article that I saw indicating this was doing anything to bend the cost curve.

The article title itself says, "Costing Feds Less Than Expected", which is the only text produced in that poster's comment linking to it. That certainly sounds like "bending the cost curve" or "saving money" or whatever.

Just because you don't know it doesn't mean that there's not significance to the phrase bend the cost curve. It is not the same thing as "saving money," and it's a vitally important task with regards to doing anything about health care costs for everyone.

Given that you clearly identify that the only text produced in that poster's comment linking to it is the assertion that the total cost to the feds is less than expected I'm not sure why you're determined to call it out for something that it doesn't assert or that it's asserting it on false premises. It's saying exactly what it's saying and, as I said (but you didn't quote), the actual total cost of keeping the ACA is a critically important fact as we have a party determined to repeal it and who assert they want to do so without costing us more money.

If the ACA yields X tax dollar intake (via device taxes and 'cadillac plan' taxes and other things) and Y expenditures then the total cost is X-Y. If Y is less than the initial CBO score then removing X from our tax receipts will be even more deficit causing than previously expected.
posted by phearlez at 3:21 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

Is there any way to spin this to Trumpists as "free childcare for illegal immigrants" that will make them oppose the proposed separations? Or would that just make them rally to get the government to just abandon or otherwise harm the kids?

For the love of God, let's not poke the racist bears. I am trying to imagine the results and everything I can imagine is terrifying.
posted by corb at 3:23 PM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

I'm a US citizen and white as white can be, but I'm considering avoiding all air travel (foreign and domestic) while Trump is in office. It doesn't seem worth the risk.
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:24 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

A nice article in Glamour Magazine on the Day Without A Woman strike.

Honestly for those of you who are in the fence, if you DO have the privilege of taking a day off work, please do it. Do it for the people who don't have that privilege.

If you can't, boycott national chain stores for one day, or just wear red. But don't sit this out. It's being organized by the people who organized the Women's March, still the loudest and most effective anti-Trump protest yet. The message is "This is not normal" and the fact that this is not a normal protest tactic is part of getting across that message.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:29 PM on March 6, 2017 [21 favorites]

So the Republican healthcare plan at the moment seems to be to introduce a bill in the House that they can't pass in the hope that the White House bullies the hardline GOPers who want a full repeal into actually going along with it. If that works, they can see it fail in the Senate, thus giving them someone to blame.
posted by zachlipton at 3:29 PM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

Here's Sec. Kelly (DHS) outright agreeing that he's considering separating children from their parents who cross the border "to deter" families, citing the danger of smuggling networks. He literally says: "They will be well cared for as we deal with their parents."

They will get wire monkey nannies just like all the Republican leadership did.
posted by srboisvert at 3:31 PM on March 6, 2017 [29 favorites]

Six pages of the new healthcare bill are devoted to cutting certain lottery winners off of Medicaid, because somebody was actually worried enough that people might win a bunch of money, take the lump sum option, and get some healthcare they didn't "deserve," to draft actual legislation on this.
posted by zachlipton at 3:40 PM on March 6, 2017 [54 favorites]

Six pages of the new healthcare bill are devoted to cutting certain lottery winners off of Medicaid

That's almost 10% of the bill. Who is holding a grudge from Christmas dinner?
posted by ryoshu at 3:42 PM on March 6, 2017 [19 favorites]

However, if you won the lottery of life and were born rich lke Trump, you never have to pay taxes, be morally upstanding, or treat women like human beings!
posted by valkane at 3:44 PM on March 6, 2017 [33 favorites]

However, if you won the lottery of life and were born rich lke Trump, you never have to pay taxes, be morally upstanding, or treat women like human beings!

And I think to myself... What a wonderful world!
posted by Talez at 3:47 PM on March 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

Government by angry comments section edge case obsessive.
posted by Artw at 3:48 PM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

The National Park Service Has Released Official Photos Of Trump’s Inauguration Crowd.

It seems like all of Trump's inauguration photos are now somehow impossible to display unless side by side with Obama's.
posted by klarck at 3:52 PM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

So the "replacement" is repealing medicaid expansion but not till 2018, defunding Planned Parenthood, keeping some tax credits, and repealing all subsidies. Worst of all worlds, plus kicking women's healthcare just for spite.

Wait until people figure out they'll have to start paying the full brunt of those ridiculous 167% increases and not just a small share, the rest of which the government was shouldering.
posted by Talez at 3:52 PM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

Oh and they kept the individual mandate after all, anyone without insurance for more than 2 months will face an arbitrary 30% surcharge.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:52 PM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

Yep, this health care plan is an unmitigated disaster. But I'm not sure they'll be able to pass it with reconciliation. Once it is scored I think it will raise the debt after 10 years.
posted by Justinian at 3:53 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

I mean surely it will cost more to pay people to make sure nobody getting expanded Medicaid won a lottery that meets the complicated pages of rules than it does to insure the rounding error number of people that could fall into this category, right?

A certain Republican Congressman has apparently been worried about this for quite some time now and keeps introducing bills to restrict lottery winners.
posted by zachlipton at 3:53 PM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

> UNDOCUMENTED DAD TAKEN BY ICE WHILE DROPPING KIDS OFF AT SCHOOL

Meet Jocelyn Avelica, Whose Dad Was Detained by ICE While Driving his Daughter to School
posted by homunculus at 3:53 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

So its not so much a replacement plan as it is a couple of poorly thought out ideas that eliminate the things people like and keep the things they don't. Get that Mission Accomplished banner out of mothballs. They're going to need it.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:55 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Also, I don't believe it can pass at all while repealing the Medicaid expansion. It won't have 50 in the Senate, will it?
posted by Justinian at 3:59 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

If they pass this monstrosity I hope liberal groups are prepared to sue over the 30% surcharge mandate. It's not a tax right? So shouldn't SCOTUS strike it down under the same commerce clause theory they made up in Sebelius?

Also, I don't believe it can pass at all while repealing the Medicaid expansion. It won't have 50 in the Senate, will it?

Who knows. They're going to dare NeverTrumpers to stop it, and that's been a pretty good bet for them so far.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:01 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

they kept the individual mandate after all, anyone without insurance for more than 2 months will face an arbitrary 30% surcharge

Except now it goes to the job-creating insurance executives instead of to the bloated government, right?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:01 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Also, I don't believe it can pass at all while repealing the Medicaid expansion. It won't have 50 in the Senate, will it?

I mean, four Republican Senators just signed a very public letter saying they're not going to vote for a bill that destroys the Medicaid expansion, so no, they don't have the votes.
posted by zachlipton at 4:01 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

A tax break for Healthcare CEOs that make more than 500k? I imagine everyone has been clamoring for this.
posted by drezdn at 4:03 PM on March 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

If they pass this monstrosity I hope liberal groups are prepared to sue over the 30% surcharge mandate. It's not a tax right? So shouldn't SCOTUS strike it down under the same commerce clause theory they made up in Sebelius?

I don't think so. The government isn't requiring you to buy the insurance so you aren't required to pay the surcharge.
posted by Justinian at 4:03 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm curious how actuarially sound the 30% surcharge is (probably not very, since the number has varied from 25% to 200% at various times). Because going without health insurance and paying 30% more in premiums to enroll just when its needed actually sounds like it could be a pretty good deal, depending on how enrollment windows work anyway. Guaranteed issue without a mandate and a 30% surcharge for non-continuous coverage has got to be making the insurance companies freak out.
posted by zachlipton at 4:05 PM on March 6, 2017 [16 favorites]

Today we learned that Oronov apparently organized that 'peace plan' meeting that brought together Ukrainian MP Artemenko, Cohen and Felix Sater. About four hours ago Andrii Artemenko, the Ukrainian parliamentarian who came to New York with that 'peace plan', went on Facebook to announce that Alex Oronov has died.

Just a quick update here, with some new reporting from Buzzfeed. The Cohen family (that's Michael Cohen, Trump's personal lawyer, who has both business and familial ties, by marriage, to Oronov) is pushing back on the story. The story started with a Facebook post from Ukrainian MP Andrii Artemenko, who suggested that Oronov was has "partner, teacher, mentor and friend" and responsible for the secret Ukraine "peace plan." The Cohen family is saying that Oronov had nothing to do with the plan and barely knew Artemenko. They also say that Oronov died after fighting a long disease after months in the hospital, not "at the hands of American journalists" for questioning him about his role in the meeting, as Artemenko claimed.
posted by zachlipton at 4:10 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Ok, what to make of this claim that the NSA has evidence of collusion?

On one hand, Occupy Democrats is not a reliable source. OTOH, the tweets are by an ex-NSA Official.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:10 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

I mean surely it will cost more to pay people to make sure nobody getting expanded Medicaid won a lottery that meets the complicated pages of rules than it does to insure the rounding error number of people that could fall into this category, right?

A certain Republican Congressman has apparently been worried about this for quite some time now and keeps introducing bills to restrict lottery winners.

Maybe they could bill that guy?
posted by Artw at 4:11 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Look, guys, they only had eight years to come up with this plan so I think you're being a little nit-picky. I mean, it's not like they changed their thinking on tax credits over the weekend.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:13 PM on March 6, 2017 [24 favorites]

So, John Schindler on Twitter says that reporters are "unable 2 differentiate between wiretapping - which has a specific meaning - vs other forms of SIGINT"
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:14 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

I need to find a good explainer for the healthcare proposal.

So if I go without insurance for more than two months, then I can still buy individual insurance, but I have to pay a 30% penalty on my rates for a year. But am I guaranteed that I'll be able to buy individual insurance if, say, I have a preexisting condition? Can my policy exempt pre-existing conditions? If they're required to sell insurance to everyone and can't exempt preexisting conditions, then yeah, that seem actuarially unsound and like they're encouraging people to put off getting coverage until they get sick. And if there isn't protection for pre-existing conditions, then a lot of people are going to end up screwed anyway.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:16 PM on March 6, 2017

Amash has already publicly referred to it as Obamacare 2.0, so the house GOP may not even be on board.
posted by strange chain at 4:17 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

Maybe they could get it down to just the lottery winner provision, call ACA fixed, and then if anyone wins the lottery and simultaneously gets an expensive medical condition we all chip in and help them?
posted by Artw at 4:18 PM on March 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

From what I can tell, it preserves many of the features of Obamacare that benefit upper-middle-income-and-above Americans while gutting the ones that benefit middle-income-and-below Americans. So basically par for the Republican course. But I don't think it's going to satisfy anyone.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:19 PM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

if you are an immigrant and/or any shade that might be considered brown, get a burner phone and put nothing on it but the contacts you actually need

This isn't just advice for brown people. At this point nobody should travel with a smart phone logged into any accounts (iCloud, Facebook, Twitter, Dropbox, etc). Assume that a hostile power will take your phone, force you to provide its password, and then make a copy of it and then peruse all your stuff later while you are not looking. If you have to travel with a smart phone, before you leave for the airport do a factory reset on it so it won't be connected to any accounts (on an iPhone: Settings->General->Reset->Erase All Contents and Settings). If you have the luxury, get a dumb phone and travel with that, leaving your smartphone at home.

For extra credit (by which I mean security): start using a password manager before you leave on the trip. Change all your email and social media passwords before the trip using the password manager so they are not memorable without the aid of the password manager, and then immediately before the trip change the password on the password manager itself, write it down (or save it on a device you're not bringing) and leave it in a secure place at home. Then when they ask you for your phone, hand over the (hopefully dumb) phone, and when they ask you for your social media passwords you can say you use a password manager and you don't know them. If they try to force you to reset your password, you don't know your email password either.

I wish I were just being paranoid. I used to joke about the poor people who'd get bored reading all my email, but this has stopped being a joke.
posted by fedward at 4:19 PM on March 6, 2017 [66 favorites]

Maybe they could get it down to just the lottery winner provision

I'm waiting for the lottery winner provision to apply to all lottery winners, including $1 scratch-it winners.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 4:20 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Watch Ben Carson refer to slaves as 'immigrants'
posted by homunculus at 4:22 PM on March 6, 2017

Go home, Ben Carson, reality is drunk for letting you be in charge of anything.
posted by Artw at 4:24 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

From the Washington Post writeup (emphasis added):

The legislation would preserve two of the most popular features of the 2010 health-care law, letting young adults stay on their parents’ health plans until age 26 and forbidding insurers to deny coverage or charge more to people with pre-existing medical problems. It would, however, allow insurers to impose a surcharge on such people if they have had a gap in coverage.

I'm sure the surcharge will be reasonable, not punitive or prohibitive.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:24 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

We've had the CBP acting in an arbitrary and capricious manner against travelers, including children, including US citizens, including children who are US citizens. Ever since Customs merged with the Border patrol, we've had the professionals in Customs mixed in with the scumbags of the Border Patrol, and you know the saying about bad apples. Now the CBP has been eager to show its willingness to be the president's goon squad.

I am seriously concerned that Trump is literally planning to fashion CPB/ICE into his secret police. The quid pro quo (more jobs and money in return for support), rapid and unnecessary expansion (which could pull in alt-right jerks, racists and random supporters), and the immediate glee and impunity with which the agents are flexing their muscles and testing their oversight limits.

Combine that with their legal argument in court that even the courts literally can't review the president's immigration decisions, and the current immediate deportations without a hearing, and it's pretty clear what he's trying to do. He has favorably talked about "Operation Wetback" in the 1950s, which deported > 100,000 US citizens who looked brown. Who says that won't be protestors next year?
posted by msalt at 4:24 PM on March 6, 2017 [23 favorites]

I'm waiting for the lottery winner provision to apply to all lottery winners, including $1 scratch-it winners.

If they fuck with pull-tabs, no Republican is getting elected in this district ever again.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 4:24 PM on March 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

Ok, what to make of this claim that the NSA has evidence of collusion? On one hand, Occupy Democrats is not a reliable source. OTOH, the tweets are by an ex-NSA Official.

John Schindler is not, in my opinion, the most reliable person (and has some, er, personal baggage). I'd never stop anyone from breaking out the popcorn, but there's not a lot to go on here at this point.
posted by zachlipton at 4:24 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

If anyone... gets an expensive medical condition we all chip in and help them?

Say, that sounds like a good idea
posted by J.K. Seazer at 4:27 PM on March 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

This bill just seems like a collection of hobby horses (a herd?). Which GOP assnugget was it that was so outraged that some people to save money were going off insurance for a couple months then picking it back up again because the ACA says there can't be a penalty for that? That guy and the lottery winner obsessed guy are the only two people happy about this thing.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:29 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Really? Because I figure those guys will always be deeply unhappy.
posted by ckape at 4:38 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Claims that Russian TV journalists offered to pay Islamic immigrants in Sweden to let them film violent behavior. (Swedish.)
posted by Coventry at 4:40 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

>> But seriously does amending his testimony mean that he didn't commit perjury now?
> It's called a do-over and it's what made America great. If rich white men can't be offered a second chance then nobody can.

The Ministry of Truth would like to clarify that AG Sessions was malquoted, and his testimony misprinted. Bigly Brother has full confidence in Sessions' blackwhite goodthink.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 4:40 PM on March 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

On the Media (podcast) a few years back tackled the lack of accountability at the US borders, even before Trump became president. What We Know About the Border. It was alarming then. There seems to be no accountability to anyone in congress - no oversight really at all. No court of appeal.

The Trump administration's so-called "Muslim ban" has created chaos and confusion at airports around the country, but horror stories at the border go back much further than this year. In 2014, we devoted an hour to trying to shred the veil of secrecy obscuring Customs and Border Protection, the huge police force tasked with guarding our borders. We discovered a lack of basic rights and accountability, along with countless stories of dehumanizing detentions and intrusions that thrive within a massive legal grey area.
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 4:41 PM on March 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

From the House GOP website:

How are you paying for this plan? How much is it going to cost taxpayers?

We are still discussing details

"We are still discussing details" is apparently GOPspeak for "we have no fucking idea."
posted by Justinian at 4:46 PM on March 6, 2017 [43 favorites]

Oh my god, the 75k limit for subsidies is a HARD CAP. The subsidies don't get smaller for income over that, if you earn $75,000 you get the subsidy. If you earn $75,001 you get no subsidy. None.

How is that anything but a massive disincentive to earning more money?
posted by Justinian at 4:49 PM on March 6, 2017 [41 favorites]

Wow, this looks like a WH or FLOTUS office problem, not necessarily a Melania problem. What the pool reported the First Lady said is very different from what the official transcript says.

GQ: The White House Sure Has an Interesting Characterization of Melania Trump’s Visit to a Children’s Hospital

They cannot tell the truth about anything.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:50 PM on March 6, 2017 [36 favorites]

It's unclear to me how this can possibly be revenue neutral if they stripped out the employer mandate penalty and the individual mandate penalty (retroactive to 2016! I am not kidding), and delayed the Cadillac tax.

A bunch of this stuff also really has nothing to do with revenue, like the 30% penalty for not maintaining continuous coverage and changing how much older Americans can be charged. How the heck are they getting that through reconciliation? Do you buy the parliamentarian a lot of whiskey or something?
posted by zachlipton at 4:51 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

Me: heh heh, well you know what they say about sausage and the law…

(swings open door to kitchen, revealing republican lawmakers trying to stuff half of a dog into a pair of panty hose full of fully-wrapped butter cubes and pig shit. A sausage stuffer lies on the floor in pieces.)

Republicans: We are still discussing details.
posted by murphy slaw at 4:52 PM on March 6, 2017 [41 favorites]

How the heck are they getting that through reconciliation? Do you buy the parliamentarian a lot of whiskey or something?

I have the same question. It seems to include a bunch of regulatory stuff that shouldn't be allowed through reconciliation. For example changing the price ratio of plans for old people and young people from 3-1 to 5-1. That seems to me to have no budgetary relevance. Maybe I'm misunderstanding how reconciliation works?
posted by Justinian at 4:55 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

twitter White House press release (left) contains full paragraph copied verbatim from Exxon press release (right).

The Exxon PR was issued an hour before the WH PR.Wonder if Tillerson did the copy/paste himself. Not earth shattering but jfc these people are inept when a run of the mill PR makes WaPo.
posted by futz at 4:59 PM on March 6, 2017 [33 favorites]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding how reconciliation works?

I imagine it will work the way all other Republican things work: Because Fuck You.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 4:59 PM on March 6, 2017 [28 favorites]

Oh my god, the 75k limit for subsidies is a HARD CAP. The subsidies don't get smaller for income over that, if you earn $75,000 you get the subsidy. If you earn $75,001 you get no subsidy. None.

I've seen that reported, but I'm also seeing that there's a phaseout above $75K. I'm looking at the bill now and I'm seeing the phaseout:

IN GENERAL.—The amount otherwise determined under subsection (b)(1)(A) (without regard to this subparagraph but after any other adjustment of such amount under this section) for the taxable year shall be reduced (but not below zero) by 10 percent of the excess (if any) of—

‘‘(i) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for such taxable year, over (ii) $75,000 (twice such amount in the case of a joint return).

There's also a kind of cryptic paragraph that I think is limiting the subsidies to a grand total of $14,000/year and requires they can only be computed on the basis of five people in a family. If I'm interpreting that right (and I very well may not be), that means a two parents and four kids wouldn't get any additional subsidy to insure the fourth kid.
posted by zachlipton at 5:05 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

White House press release (left) contains full paragraph copied verbatim from Exxon press release (right).

AKA the Scott Pruitt School of Composition
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:05 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Vox: The GOP Obamacare replacement defunds Planned Parenthood and restricts abortion coverage
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:07 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

I guess maybe their strategy is that it won't pass, they can somehow blame the Democrats for not passing it, and then they can repeal the ACA and shrug their shoulders and say "we tried to replace it, and it's not our fault we couldn't get it through". That seems like it wouldn't work for them, but there's kind of no way that they can please all their constituencies, so maybe they're going to say screw it and try to please the Koch brothers.

Alternatively, it's possible that Trump is not the only person in the Republican leadership for whom it's all about politics, rather than policy, so they don't really care that it's a mess that wouldn't work, as long as it's popular? Maybe they're just stalling for time and hoping that some solution miraculously appears? Fuck if I know.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:16 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Maybe they're just stalling for time and hoping that some solution miraculously appears? Fuck if I know.

dog chases car
dog catches car
dog does not know how to proceed
also, car is on fire
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:21 PM on March 6, 2017 [53 favorites]

> With that said, the Israeli Government's Law of Return has never been of greater comfort than it has been during past 4 months...

How Donald Trump Won the U.S. Elections, Scared the Jews and Saved Israel. A nightmarish fantasy: After the 2016 'War of the Races,' thousands of liberal Jews fled to the one place that would accept them, and changed it forever.
posted by homunculus at 5:21 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

zachlipton: Thanks, that does look like a gradual reduction rather than a hard cutoff. I'm still seeing people reporting it as a hard cutoff though, which is probably indicative of this whole thing being a confusing mess.

Do you know if this is a refundable tax credit? IE if you don't pay much if any taxes you actually get money from the government rather than simply bringing your tax liability down to 0?
posted by Justinian at 5:28 PM on March 6, 2017

Trump hotel may be political capital of the nation's capital

-- After Trump's speech, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin returned to his Washington residence — the hotel — and strode past the gigantic American flag in the soaring lobby. With his tiny terrier tucked under an arm, Mnuchin stepped into an elevator with reality TV star and hotel guest Dog the Bounty Hunter, who particularly enjoyed the Trump-stamped chocolates in his room.

-- ...Mnuchin is one of the New Yorkers working in Washington who call it home during the week. White House economic adviser Gary Cohn is another. Linda McMahon, who heads the Small Business Administration, also has been staying there.

Administration officials "have been personally paying a fair market rate" for their accommodations, White House spokeswoman Lindsay Walters said.

Even Trump's closest friends pay to stay.

Billionaire Phil Ruffin, Trump's partner for his Las Vegas residential tower, said he shelled out $18,000 per night while he was in town for the inauguration, which he said surprised him since he'd given $1 million to Trump's inauguration committee. Ruffin says he lightly complained about the high rate to the president.

"He said, 'Well, I'm kind of out of it.' So I didn't get anywhere, didn't get my discount," Ruffin recalled.

According to the article it is quite the Right Wing Mecca. I'll take any reason that brings trump down but it would be beautiful, yuuugely beautiful if it was one of his precious properties that brought him down.
posted by futz at 5:29 PM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

(for example here is Chris Hayes retweeting WaPo reporter Mike DeBonis saying that its a hard cutoff at 75,001. So I don't know. But zachlipton's quote sure does seem to contradict that.)
posted by Justinian at 5:30 PM on March 6, 2017

Once it is scored I think it will raise the debt after 10 years.

By the time the sausage machine goes to the Senate and back they're going to fire the CBO scorers until they find one who says otherwise.
posted by holgate at 5:31 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

I am seriously concerned that Trump is literally planning to fashioning CPB/ICE into his secret police.

It's interesting (in an abstract sense) to see how there are multiple lines of precedent that would allow this.

To start with, there's the border exception which allows warrantless searches and seizures at the US border ... which isn't the actual border, but includes some distance in from the USA's actual borders, its coasts, and international airports. The government treats this area as extending to anywhere within a hundred miles of those places, which means that about 60% of the US population is covered.

Then there's the "war on terror". The courts give greatest deference to the President's actions when they're ordered in the joint role of both Chief Executive and Commander in Chief. So an (allegedly) anti-terrorism action aimed at immigrants would presumably have the President at the height of his powers, as it's both military and administrative.

Finally, there are both practical and legal obstacles to the exercise of civil rights when people are detained and/or or in areas that the government has ruled to be not-quite in the USA. The obvious example of a different legal regime is Guantanamo, but in practice people's civil rights are greatly restricted within airports and so forth. So if you put all these things together, you have a highly-privileged militarised police force that answers only to the Executive, and which has its own network of special detention centers. And that's without any special legislation or emergency powers.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:33 PM on March 6, 2017 [22 favorites]

Vox: The GOP Obamacare replacement defunds Planned Parenthood and restricts abortion coverage

The shit keeps rolling down hill until it becomes a shitvelanche.
posted by Talez at 5:34 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

How long does CBO scoring take?
posted by saturday_morning at 5:35 PM on March 6, 2017

I know we have gotten bored with his tweets but I did think this was worth mentioning.

Written 4 hours ago and still not rewritten to omit misspelling:

Buy American & hire American are the principals at the core of my agenda, which is: JOBS, JOBS, JOBS! Thank you @exxonmobil.

Unless.... maybe there are a couple of guys named "Hire American" and "Buy American" who work in Trump schools as Principals.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:41 PM on March 6, 2017 [21 favorites]

wait, according to "every stupid thing this republican govt. does is actually 11-dimensional chess" rules, they are revealing details of the terrible healthcare bill to take attention away from the terrible immigration executive order, right?
posted by murphy slaw at 5:42 PM on March 6, 2017

The cutoff works like this: the credit is reduced by 10% of the excess of the taxpayer's AGI over $75K ($150K joint returns).

So, for a single person, AGI of 100K, and a credit starting at $3000, the reduction would be (100K-75K)*10% = $2500, meaning the allowable credit is $500. But if you want abortion coverage, the credit is $0.
posted by melissasaurus at 5:43 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

WSJ: Trump Administration Delays Enforcement of Obama-Era Rules on For-Profit Colleges: The Trump administration said Monday it would delay implementing new rules designed to punish career-training schools that leave students with high levels of debt but weak job prospects.

The move delays new rules known as “gainful employment” that formed a key piece of former President Barack Obama’s higher-education agenda. It could ultimately help for-profit colleges avoid sanctions if they prove the government data underpinning the rules is flawed.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:44 PM on March 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

Written 4 hours ago and still not rewritten to omit misspelling:

Maybe Betsy DeVos checked it for him approved so he tweeted?
posted by futz at 5:49 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

SPICEY RETURNS tomorrow.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:54 PM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

the core of my agenda, which is: JOBS, JOBS, JOBS!

The Trump administration said Monday it would delay implementing new rules designed to punish career-training schools that leave students with high levels of debt but weak job prospects.

Apparently the only "jobs" Trump wants to promote are permanent underclass factory/mining work and work swindling anyone with the audacity to want to rise above their station.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 5:54 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Reason:
HIT & RUN BLOG
The GOP’s Obamacare Repeal Bill Is Here. Is This Just Obamacare Lite?
The House bill trades one set of tax credits for another.

More broadly, it's not clear what constituency this bill is designed to satisfy, aside from Republican congressional leadership. It doesn't go far enough for conservatives, but may not be generous enough to appease more moderate Republicans either. (Democrats are, at this point, virtually certain to uniformly oppose the bill.) It's a muddled version of the House GOP plan, which was itself a muddled vision of what a political compromise might look like, in some hypothetical world where Republicans actually agreed about health policy.

The GOP's real problem, in terms of passing legislation, isn't that they can't agree on specifics, or that they need to bargain their way toward a compromise. It's that they don't agree on, or in some cases even have, basic goals when it comes to health policy. This bill, and the aura of secrecy surrounding it, seems more like a wish and a hope that this essential problem goes away rather than an attempt to truly solve it.

posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:55 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Do you know if this is a refundable tax credit? IE if you don't pay much if any taxes you actually get money from the government rather than simply bringing your tax liability down to 0?

Everything I've seen so far is indicating that this is still a refundable credit. That will piss off the Freedom Caucus folks (who hate the idea that anybody could get money back).

In short, the bill keeps way too much of the structure of Obamacare to be acceptable to the right-wing, while messing it up in a gazillion ways for everyone who actually has to rely on it.
posted by zachlipton at 5:56 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Yes, according to the Reason article I linked it is tax credits which will piss off Rand Paul.

So this bill is a hot mess that will never get passed. I guess we just have to wait and see the miracle plan promised by DJT. What was it? More coverage, better plan, keep your doctor, but cost less? I'm sure that is coming very soon.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:01 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump, in his Joint Address to Congress, called for "reforms that expand choice, increase access, lower costs, and, at the same time, provide better healthcare."

I think we should grade every plan on whether they satisfy the President's very important criteria.
posted by zachlipton at 6:05 PM on March 6, 2017 [42 favorites]

The Times is reporting that 7 GOP Senators (Portman, Capito, Gardner, Murkowski, Lee, Paul & Cruz) who are already voicing "reservations" about the bill. This thing is dead in the water.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:07 PM on March 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

What was it? More coverage, better plan, keep your doctor, but cost less? I'm sure that is coming very soon.

single payer single payer single payer
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:08 PM on March 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

A sausage stuffer lies on the floor in pieces

>PICK UP SAUSAGE STUFFER

posted by Room 641-A at 6:11 PM on March 6, 2017 [59 favorites]

Republicans are terrible at governing.
posted by notyou at 6:12 PM on March 6, 2017 [39 favorites]

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a gorka.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:14 PM on March 6, 2017 [64 favorites]

The thing is dead in the water in the Senate. The question is whether Paul Ryan tries to push it through the House (which will involve Mulvaney (sidenote: today Mulvaney said parts of the border wall could be "see-through"), founder of the House Freedom Caucus, trying to bully the Caucus into accepting a bill that's structurally Obamacare-like when they demand a complete repeal), in the hope that the Senate says "meh" and everyone in the country can personally blame Mitch McConnell for every single thing related to healthcare. If they manage to pull that off and some freshman rep's kid later gets the sniffles, he'll be giving speeches about how it's McConnell's fault.
posted by zachlipton at 6:15 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

"Has Trump been back to the tower since his inauguration?"

He hasn't been in NYC at all.

I'm not saying "sex scandal"* because words but I just looked out the window and we are past 2016 here people. It's . . it's too quiet.

*sure, why not. throw it on the pile.
posted by petebest at 6:15 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

it's hard to succeed at governing when you oppose the functions of government
posted by murphy slaw at 6:16 PM on March 6, 2017 [28 favorites]

I hope the Freedom Caucus stages a full-scale back-bencher revolt.

Divided you fall, motherfuckers.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:19 PM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

I mean surely it will cost more to pay people to make sure nobody getting expanded Medicaid won a lottery that meets the complicated pages of rules than it does to insure the rounding error number of people that could fall into this category, right?

This is basically the gist of chapter 12 ("Miss More Planes!") of (MeFi's own?) Jordan Ellenberg's How Not to Be Wrong: that there's a level of caution and control where the expense of the control outweighs the expense of the thing it's designed to prevent, so if you have a zero rate of a certain type of mischance, then it almost certainly means you're wasting money (or other utility) on preventing it.

This argument comes to me a lot when I hear Republican arguments on fraud (which are all too often implicitly racial, but let's at least pretend to take them at face value). They want to spend a great deal of time, energy, and money policing some extraordinarily rare types of frauds (election fraud, and the more detectable sorts of entitlements frauds). The low-hanging fruit on these issues is well-and-truly plucked, and it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that the expense (either in dollars, in the case of misdirected entitlements, or in subversion of demoncracy, in the case of votes) lost to fraud is far less than the expense of the preventative.

Unfortunately, their framing on entitlements is invariably moral rather than economic. It's not about osing money, it's about someone getting something they don't deserve. And somehow the petty moralists of the nation believe that it's worth spending a lot of money to keep someone from getting a small amount of money they don't deserve, even if the end result is simply a reduction in everybody's happiness levels.
posted by jackbishop at 6:19 PM on March 6, 2017 [34 favorites]

Republicans are terrible at governing.

I mean, the hilarious thing is that once upon a time, Republicans had a solution to the problem of providing everyone with healthcare, and it was identical to Obamacare. And now they can't use their perfectly plausible solution to this mess, because they've spent eight years convincing everyone that it's socialism. So now they've got nothing, because they totally undercut their own policy.

I wish I could take more satisfaction in their incompetence.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:23 PM on March 6, 2017 [94 favorites]

They want to spend a great deal of time, energy, and money policing some extraordinarily rare types of frauds (election fraud, and the more detectable sorts of entitlements frauds).

That's a funny way of spelling "Benghazi."
posted by fedward at 6:23 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

SESSIONS: "I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians."

And how about his answering "no" to the question about Russian contacts in his written response during the confirmation hearings?

So is someone who commits perjury a perjurER? Yes? Okay. *ahem* *sniff*

"Sean, will perjurer Jeff Sessions be looking into recreational mariju-?"

No? Okay wait.

"Sean, before perjuring himself in front of the Senate, the Attorney General said (wait for mad barking, repeat first part of question)"

Yeah, no the second one's better.
posted by petebest at 6:24 PM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

The Rural Perjurer
posted by fedward at 6:26 PM on March 6, 2017 [78 favorites]

it's hard to succeed at governing when you oppose the functions of government

They do a decent job of governing/ripping the government apart at the state level; maybe that's what we'll get with President Pence (certainly Trump seems incompetent at everything but squeezing every cent he can out of this deal).

Maybe the Congress will get it together with the budget and their tax cuts and show some professionalism and organization then. I think it's more likely Trump will continue to bumble around and screw that up, too.

We're coming up on midway through the First 100 days and basically zilch on the agenda is done (although plenty of damage has been done via executive branch actions).
posted by notyou at 6:27 PM on March 6, 2017

Unfortunately, their framing on entitlements is invariably moral rather than economic. It's not about osing money, it's about someone getting something they don't deserve. And somehow the petty moralists of the nation believe that it's worth spending a lot of money to keep someone from getting a small amount of money they don't deserve, even if the end result is simply a reduction in everybody's happiness levels.

The best example of this is drug testing welfare recipients. Michigan tried it in a pilot program and got precisely zero positive results. In Tennessee, one in 800 tested positive, and the Florida program (later ruled unconstitutional) cost more to administer than it saved. It turns out that the vast majority of people who qualify for the extremely limited cash welfare programs that are left are spending all their money feeding their families instead of buying the drugs idiot Republicans assume they must be popping. But lawmakers keep proposing the tests in state after state, because actually cutting costs is less important to them than punishing poor people.
posted by zachlipton at 6:28 PM on March 6, 2017 [90 favorites]

I'm gonna say this one more time, and I want you to listen to me . . I did not. Have. Communications . . with those nationalities. The Russians.

*bites lower lip*
posted by petebest at 6:28 PM on March 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

The Republican plan covers pre-existing conditions if you have continuous coverage. But it also includes money for a high-risk pool. What isn't clear is why you need a high-risk pool if you have guaranteed coverage of pre-existing conditions. That's exactly what Obamacare got rid of.

The best I can determine is that the states can arbitrarily shunt anyone they think is too unhealthy and too expensive for the market into the high-risk pool. This lowers premiums for healthy people. It isn't clear who or how they make that determination of banishment to the high-risk pool nor how much subsidy or coverage you would get. Death panels?

But it makes insurance cheaper for healthy people by segregating of all the gross sick people, which sounds very Republican.

Can we call it the dead pool? The lepers pool?
posted by JackFlash at 6:30 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

So this bill is a hot mess that will never get passed. I guess we just have to wait and see the miracle plan promised by DJT. What was it?

That comes after he defeats ISIS in his first 30 days in office.
posted by srboisvert at 6:31 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

Have they actually run this stupid-ass plan by anyone in the industry? As people above note, being able to drop coverage indefinitely, and then pick it back up again whenever the hell you want for a 30% surcharge... well, that's an awfully good deal for consumers, which means it's got to be a pretty shitty deal for insurers, who have to deal with all those people who drop cheap health plans young and then want the same health plans back for 30% more after they get cancer or what-have-you.

Sure, gaming the system this way blows up catastrophically in the face of the young uninsured person who gets a lot sicker a lot earlier than they expect and deal with huge bills in an uninsured year, but it's still going to look attractive to a lot of people, and that's going to scare the crap out of any actuary who wants a risk-balanced pool.
posted by jackbishop at 6:32 PM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

I hope the Freedom Caucus stages a full-scale back-bencher revolt.

Divided you fall, motherfuckers.

I'm positive that the Freedom Caucus has been furiously making a Mean Girls style Burn Book on Ryan for a few years now.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:34 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

MY favorite thing about the Freedom Caucus is that they literally have a member named Brat. Who replaced Cantor? Some Brat.

And when Cantor was primaried out he bailed on serving out the remainder of his term in a snit, proving that a Brat was replacing a brat.
posted by phearlez at 6:38 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

They do a decent job of governing/ripping the government apart at the state level

Aren't all red states bar Texas financial disaster zones that have to keep themselves afloat with federal funds syphoned from blue states?
posted by Artw at 6:39 PM on March 6, 2017 [12 favorites]

being able to drop coverage indefinitely, and then pick it back up again whenever the hell you want for a 30% surcharge... well, that's an awfully good deal for consumers, which means it's got to be a pretty shitty deal for insurers

Even worse for insurers is that they are repealing the rules for basic coverage that apply to qualifying plans. That means cheap insurers can go back to offering those dirt cheap catastrophic plans that don't really cover anything. So you can get a cheap, say $30 a month plan, avoid the 30% penalty and when you get sick, switch to a real insurance plan. That's even a worse deal for insurers.
posted by JackFlash at 6:40 PM on March 6, 2017 [15 favorites]

Then when they ask you for your phone, hand over the (hopefully dumb) phone, and when they ask you for your social media passwords you can say you use a password manager and you don't know them. If they try to force you to reset your password, you don't know your email password either.

TrueCrypt offered a "secure delete me now" password failsafe. What's the new TrueCrypt? (VeraCrypt excepted)
posted by petebest at 6:41 PM on March 6, 2017

ahahaha america okay it was a good joke but it's time to bring out the real president. shit is getting cray.

no seriously where is she
posted by um at 6:49 PM on March 6, 2017 [34 favorites]

The mystery is how Republicans are going to pay for their plan. They are repealing virtually every tax in Obamacare including the tanning bed tax (too bad John Boehner couldn't be here for this). And there is not one word in the plan about sources of new revenue.

You can't pass a bill through reconciliation and avoid the filibuster unless you meet certain budget balancing rules. I wonder what rules breaking jujitsu they will use. A magic asterisk saying GDP growth will be 6% a year because of the tax cuts?
posted by JackFlash at 6:50 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Where's Rudy?!?

Rudy Giuliani, Elaine Chao among dozens of U.S. pols paid by Iranian terror group
Alt link

THERE he is!

Elaine got 50k to speak for 5 minutes! That's . . . like, 800 dollars a minute!
posted by petebest at 6:50 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

in other news, ben carson clarifies his controversial statement about the slave trade and OH HONEY NO
posted by murphy slaw at 6:57 PM on March 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

Elaine got 50k to speak for 5 minutes! That's . . . like, 800 dollars a minute!

Is there some kind of joke I'm not getting?

$50,000 for five minutes is $10,000/minute. This is, I think the third or fourth calculation in this thread today that has been not even been close, though you're off by fewer orders of magnitude than the others at least..

For the sake of those of us who are kind of obsessive about arithmetic -- if it's intentional trolling please don't, and if it's a joke maybe make that clearer. These threads already make me twitchy enough..
posted by Nerd of the North at 6:58 PM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

He... he said involuntary immigrants.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
posted by Justinian at 7:00 PM on March 6, 2017 [13 favorites]

At some point you can't tell if stupidity is willful or not, so you just shrug.

Been shrugging a lot lately.
posted by emjaybee at 7:05 PM on March 6, 2017

12 Years an Immigrant was such a great movie, glad it won an Oscar.
posted by Freon at 7:07 PM on March 6, 2017 [55 favorites]

Can we call it the dead pool? The lepers pool?

Health Care Solutions By Bethesda (tm)
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:07 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

$50,000 for five minutes is $10,000/minute.

Alternative Math.

Yes, sorry, was riffing on both the upthread miscalculations and my own deep love of math. (*bzzt*) Fondness for math. (*bzzt*) i can count. (*bzzt*) Oh fertheluvva - I was gonna paint an eight! (*ding!*) now would you unhook this thing already?!
posted by petebest at 7:11 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Jennifer Rubin at the Post: Trump: Bonkers, paranoid or trapped?

i wish i could believe that these conservative commentators would stand up to a republican executive who was succeeding at violating political norms
posted by murphy slaw at 7:11 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

With Ben it's not willful, he really is that dumb about everything that doesn't involve slicing and dicing brains.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:12 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Health Care Solutions By Bethesda (tm)

I realize that this is a Biblical allusion, but I would have got that more quickly were it not for the fact that Bethesda is the name of the D.C. suburb where NIH is located. Many of our healthcare solutions actually come from Bethesda!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:15 PM on March 6, 2017 [15 favorites]

Like Rich Hall, I'm just waiting to hear about...

I just love that Rich Hall has taken off in England.
posted by rhizome at 7:16 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

I have a hard time believing in Carson's brain slicing, frankly. I think even brain surgeons should have basic levels of intelligence, if only so they won't go into a rant about pyramids in the middle of my brain surgery and forget what the fuck they're doing. I wouldn't let that guy anywhere near a knife, even to slice a tomato.
posted by emjaybee at 7:17 PM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

Wired fact checks Ben Carson's claims about the brain, which are, of course, far from the least crazy things he said today, but since he is supposed to be an actual expert on brains (and apparently now, housing), it's rather alarming that he said this stuff.

It turns out, surprisingly, that you can't make someone start reciting a book they read 60 years ago verbatim by zapping the right part of their brain with an electrode.
posted by zachlipton at 7:18 PM on March 6, 2017 [39 favorites]

Has anyone looked into Carson's malpractice rates or done a follow up on his post surgery patient satisfaction?
posted by futz at 7:22 PM on March 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

NYT: Trump’s Wiretapping Claims Puncture Veneer of Presidential Civility: And so, Mr. Gingrich added, Mr. Trump needs to figure out how to get control of his own bureaucracy. “He’s not going to survive,” he said, “unless he profoundly rethinks what they’re doing and how they’re doing it.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:25 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Dear Jesus in Heaven will people please stop talking to Newt Motherfucking Gingrich about things I swear to god I will never ever care what that shit-filled sphincter of a man has to say on any topic.
posted by emjaybee at 7:29 PM on March 6, 2017 [60 favorites]

Gingri(n)ch is kind of a proto-Trump, right down to the shitty hairpiece. He's probably really mad HE didn't get to be the Glorious Leader.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:31 PM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

Can we call it the dead pool? The lepers pool?

It doesn't matter what we call it - the Rethuglicans are going to call it the AIDS penalty, and claim that it's only for immoral people who're leeching medical care from everyone else.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 7:32 PM on March 6, 2017

Obamacare/GOP Obamacare replacement (twitter @morninggloria)
posted by chaoticgood at 7:36 PM on March 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

OK, here's the deal - if Rand (actually named after Ayn) goddman Paul (son of ultra-objectivist icon Ron Paul) thinks your bill is stupid and ruinous and deadly to people, industries and the nation, this plan won't so much as fly as explode into molten lead showering those who had a hand in drafting it.

They had SEVEN YEARS to plan a replacement. When they were in a position to do so, THEY HAD NO PLAN. This plan was made up on the spot in less than two months, and boooyyyyy howdy, it shows.

I wonder when Trump will start watching the Daily Show, John Oliver and Sam Bee, and reading HuffPo and cruising the Politics tab at FARK, and he figures out a way to get all the protests and pushback to stop... Trump announces Medicaid for All as the public option, and Businesses get to sell healthcare plans with stuff like in-home PT and zero-deductible medicine, and also allows Medicare and Medicaid to negotiate drug prices as a block.

Then the congressional investigations into Russian interference will begin in earnest...
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:37 PM on March 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

Before the deplorable Gingrich said what room317 linked he said:

-- “We’re in a unique period,” said Newt Gingrich, the Republican former House speaker who has been an outside adviser to the new president. “Trump is a genuinely disruptive figure who threatens everything Obama stands for.”

-- “It’s a sign of how deeply frustrated he is,” Mr. Gingrich said. “They have a much bigger assault against them than people have had in the past.”

I'd like to remind Newt that he personally has assaulted more democrats on baseless accusations than...oh fuck it. Fuck You Newt Gingrich. fuck you.
posted by futz at 7:37 PM on March 6, 2017 [26 favorites]

Samuel L. Jackson‏ @SamuelLJackson
OK!! Ben Carson....I can't! Immigrants ? In the bottom of SLAVE SHIPS??!! MUTHAFUKKA PLEASE!!!#dickheadedtom
posted by Room 641-A at 7:40 PM on March 6, 2017 [54 favorites]

Obamacare replacement plan
posted by uosuaq at 7:44 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

It doesn't matter what we call it - the Rethuglicans are going to call it the AIDS penalty, and claim that it's only for immoral people who're leeching medical care from everyone else.

I just hope no one reminds them about the Ryan White Act.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:45 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

anyway i wonder if the senate has any exciting plans for march 15th
posted by poffin boffin at 7:48 PM on March 6, 2017 [46 favorites]

i nominate 'republicare' as the new euphemism, avoiding any reference to _rump. we gotta make sure this particular stench lingers on the whole lot of them.
posted by j_curiouser at 7:58 PM on March 6, 2017 [32 favorites]

It might be useful to look back at another attack on social welfare. In 2005, right after G.W. Bush was re-elected, he decided he had a mandate and political capital to spend on the long sought plan to privatize Social Security, handing over everyone's retirement funds to Wall Street. (As an aside, given what happened on Wall Street a few years later, we dodged a big bullet).

So there was a big Republican effort that summer to organize town hall meetings to sell their plan. It was a big, well coordinated Karl Rove offensive. It was a disaster. Congressmen were just hammered at these events. And they backed off and abandoned their plan.

The same could happen again with Obamacare if congressmen are given enough grief. Unfortunately in this case there is a lot bigger repeal constituency and a lot more promises made. Social Security affects elderly voters, while Obamacare affects primarily the poor, so resistance will be more difficult. But not impossible with determination. Make 'em sweat.
posted by JackFlash at 7:58 PM on March 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

Social Security affects elderly voters, while Obamacare affects primarily the poor, so resistance will be more difficult.

There's this:

But under the Republican plan, insurers would be allowed to charge the oldest Americans five times as much as the youngest Americans. Their financial help would not scale nearly as much as their premiums would.

“You’re both jacking up the prices and giving people less of a subsidy, which is a damaging combination,” says David Certner, legislative policy director for the AARP, which lobbies on behalf of Americans over 55.

It's a hard sell if they can't win over AARP.
posted by peeedro at 8:04 PM on March 6, 2017 [40 favorites]

Who replaced Cantor? Some Brat.

In related news, this eve Boehner tweeted a picture of himself happily mowing his lawn. Not a huge Boehner fan, but I have mad respect for his cattiness.

It turns out, surprisingly, that you can't make someone start reciting a book they read 60 years ago verbatim by zapping the right part of their brain with an electrode.

Yeah, I didn't find that too plausible when he said it. Benjamin's been watching too many sci-fi movies. Next he'll be telling his boss that he can put his brain into a younger, more vigorous body. We can only hope.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:04 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Social Security affects elderly voters

And the disabled. Remember this.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:06 PM on March 6, 2017 [27 favorites]

i nominate 'republicare' as the new euphemism, avoiding any reference to _rump. we gotta make sure this particular stench lingers on the whole lot of them.

Needs more workshopping. It's not really fair to characterize this new plan as involving care in any sense.

I probably shouldn't describe it as a plan, either.
posted by ckape at 8:10 PM on March 6, 2017 [8 favorites]

i nominate 'republicare' as the new euphemism

As much as I want that explicit link to Republicans in our insulting nickname, I just can't get the name "VaporCare" out of my head.
posted by dirge at 8:11 PM on March 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm just not processing how this can be the entirety of the Republican plan. After all this time, all this effort, eleventy repeal votes, all the braggadocio about Repeal and Replace, their so-called plan is absolutely dead on arrival. It doesn't add up in its own internal logic, it neither satisfies the Tea Partiers, nor provides reasonable coverage, insurance companies are going to hate it, it's going to kill the individual insurance market in less than a year if it is passed, and it doesn't even save money.

If I was a believer in 11-dimensional chess, I'd think the *real* plan was coming later, and this was just the head fake. But no, they've got nothing.

The problem is, insurers need to decide on their exchange participation for 2018 within the next two months. Even if this effort collapses, if there's utter chaos in the meantime, it's not just the ACA that goes into a death-spiral, it's the entire individual insurance market that collapses. That's over 20 million people? Suddenly on the "pray you don't get sick" health plan?

... I'm deep into deficit spending on evens, and I'm on an evens rationing plan, and still: I can't even.
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:13 PM on March 6, 2017 [17 favorites]

Andy Slavitt, who was on the healthcare.gov team and ran CMS, has some thoughts on the bill. I'll give you some of the big ones here, jump to the link for the details:

True headline 1: the bill is basically a tax cut ($600 billion) funded by gutting Medicaid. 4
Headline 2 is also fairly obvious. AHCA violates all President's commitments. Covers fewer, takes away protections, ⬆️ prems & deductibles.6
Headline 3: The math for AHCA is faulty. It leads to bad risk & a death spiral which means pre-ex protections are likely on paper only. 9
Headline 4: Less wonky, more marketing. Evidence of focus groups promote popular features, at expense of reality on deeper reading. 15
Headline 5: Bad for Medicare. Reduces life of Trust Fund with the giant tax cuts. I believe this is done to force more draconian cuts. 19
Headline 6: Bad for public health. Cuts prevention benefits, cuts tanning salon tax break, defunds Planned Parenthood. Costs lives and $. 20

One thing he notes is that the tax credits don't vary by region and are pegged to CPI, not the rate of medical inflation. People in high-cost areas are immediately screwed, because the credits won't buy you much healthcare there. And everyone will be screwed soon enough because the credits won't keep up with the cost of premiums, meaning that more people will drop out of the market as they can't afford premiums over a couple of years (and there's no individual mandate to push them to buy anyway). So that just leaves the people who really need insurance, which quickly leads to a death spiral and nobody writing policies for the individual market anymore.
posted by zachlipton at 8:14 PM on March 6, 2017 [36 favorites]

> Yeah, I didn't find that too plausible when he said it. Benjamin's been watching too many sci-fi movies. Next he'll be telling his boss that he can put his brain into a younger, more vigorous body. We can only hope.

Behold the coagula.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:15 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Social Security affects elderly voters

And the disabled. Remember this.

And people who may be disabled and/or elderly at some point in the future, or who may be related to those persons.

so, all of us
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:17 PM on March 6, 2017 [40 favorites]

It's manages to ruin the ACA without actually repealing it, so I guess it's got that going for it. They'll probably still call the shittied up wreckage "Obamacare" once they realize how crappy it is.
posted by Artw at 8:17 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

And so, Mr. Gingrich added, Mr. Trump needs to figure out how to get control of his own bureaucracy. “He’s not going to survive,” he said, “unless he profoundly rethinks what they’re doing and how they’re doing it.”

Does anyone else read this as a threat not a prediction?
posted by aiglet at 8:18 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Dunno. I mean, if you expect Trump to get interested in the day to day running of things it'll be a long wait, and it's not like he's surrounded self with anyone more interested in it.
posted by Artw at 8:20 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm just not processing how this can be the entirety of the Republican plan.

I think underlying that, is that you're not really processing how much of the Republican caucus is on the NPD spectrum, and how radically that affects the way they interact with the world.

An awful lot of these guys have genuine difficulty distinguishing between expressing a desire and accomplishing a goal. When expressing a desire turns out to be insufficient to accomplish a goal, they react with rage and confusion, looking for the incompetents and enemies that have thwarted their brilliant plan.

Chances are you've worked with a few people like this. Scale that up.
posted by dirge at 8:20 PM on March 6, 2017 [32 favorites]

Next he'll be telling his boss that he can put his brain into a younger, more vigorous body. We can only hope.

thank god Trump can't read or I would be just waiting in abject horror for the through-the-curtains Oval Office covert snapshot of him consulting Ivanka about something with a paperback of I Will Fear No Evil casually lying on the table next to them

usually I think the commenting population segment that gets more enraged about her than about Bannon or Ryan or Reince is a little bonkers but this, this I would believe. it would make sense of everything if it was his plan. but like I say, it would require him to be able to read, so it is not my conspiracy theory of choice. not just yet.

(why am I assuming it would work? I don't know, it just seems healthy to be afraid)
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:20 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

Does anyone else read this as a threat not a prediction?

A girl can dream.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:21 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

>That's over 20 million people? Suddenly on the "pray you don't get sick" health plan?

Maybe that's the "pray you don't get sick when they put you in jail for protesting against this terrible" health plan? What's another couple of percentage points more on the incarceration rate to these people? Their plan, absent a Reichstag to burn, has to be to lock up "bad guys" who clearly listen to "fake news".
posted by Catblack at 8:24 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm just not processing how this can be the entirety of the Republican plan.

They never had a plan. Ever. Obamacare IS the Republican health reform plan. Republicans do not give two fucks about governing. None. They give no fucks. They only ever opposed Obamacare because of Obama. Opposition was only to deny Democrats success and prevent government from helping people, because that would prove everything Republicans stand for is a lie. Government can create sucessful outcomes. Can create real jobs. Can give people real care that improves their lives. If only Republicans weren't constantly there to prevent it from happening.

Now that they have power they didn't really expect to have to deliver on, this is the result. They want full repeal, because Republicans hate when government helps people, and love tax cuts, and love the poor dying in the streets, but they're also scared of losing control of Congress. Because even Republicans voters, as fucking stupid and self-defeating as they are, or at least a very, very small, but outcome determination subset of stupid Republican voters, will draw the line at their family members literally dying in the streets.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:25 PM on March 6, 2017 [71 favorites]

If it's anybodycare, it's Ryancare. This has been his pet project since forever, so why not pin the shitweasel to it?

It doesn't add up in its own internal logic, it neither satisfies the Tea Partiers, nor provides reasonable coverage, insurance companies are going to hate it, it's going to kill the individual insurance market in less than a year if it is passed, and it doesn't even save money.

Yeah, it's still recognisably the ACA, but objectively shittier on every front. And, contrary to comments above, it doesn't only affect the poor. The middle class get shafted by the tapering-off of the subsidy. The bullshit about jacking your rates if you have a gap in coverage is just an individual mandate that fucks you triple if you don't buy COBRA. (If you do buy COBRA... well, you still get fucked, because you're paying out the ass for fucking COBRA.)

If word gets around about what's actually in this turd, there's no way it passes without completely tanking the midterms. The GOP gets their big shot at repealing the ACA, and they blow it on something that almost literally fits right into all the anti-Obamacare propaganda that got most of these guys elected to begin with? No way their rabid base doesn't eat them alive with primary challenges.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:26 PM on March 6, 2017 [11 favorites]

Does anyone else read this as a threat not a prediction?

Yes and no. Newtie is trying to stay relevant in his usual pathetic way. Plus, Fuck Newt Gingrich.
posted by futz at 8:27 PM on March 6, 2017 [4 favorites]

@SamuelLJackson
OK!! Ben Carson....I can't! Immigrants ? In the bottom of SLAVE SHIPS??!! MUTHAFUKKA PLEASE!!!#dickheadedtom

"Say immigrant again. Say IMMIGRANT again! And I dare you, I double dare you motherfucker! Say immigrant one more goddamn time." /Jules
posted by chris24 at 8:29 PM on March 6, 2017 [29 favorites]

Newt knows about as much about what risks Trump faces as any of us do.
posted by rhizome at 8:30 PM on March 6, 2017

If it's anybodycare, it's Ryancare

Naw, it's always been Wedontcare.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:30 PM on March 6, 2017 [31 favorites]

No way their rabid base doesn't eat them alive with primary challenges.

I don't know... their base is really fucking stupid. They'll cheer something on that will ultimately kill them so long as there are enough "Liberal tears" involved.

This is, however something that should be used to recruit sane voters, because it hurts just about everyone, and could be the tool needed to murder Repubs at the midterms.

I just hope the Democrats don't weasel out and start voting for the fucking thing.
posted by Artw at 8:32 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

Data Firm Says ‘Secret Sauce’ Aided Trump; Many Scoff

Is Cambridge Analytica "the Theranos of data firms?"
posted by zachlipton at 8:33 PM on March 6, 2017 [13 favorites]

Republicans hate when government helps people

They just have a slightly different understanding of what "help" means.

Really, the problem is that they've convinced themselves of a vast, teetering, groaning farrago of mutually contradictory untruths, one of which is that they have a plan, and the rest of which add up to whatever the opposite of a plan is.

But I have no doubt that the "think" their "plan" "helps" "people," for whatever meanings they might give to those words in any given moment.
posted by dirge at 8:35 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

>I just hope the Democrats don't weasel out and start voting for the fucking thing.

In anime, this is what's known as a 'death flag'.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:35 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

Things @SamuelLJackson did NOT say: "Look at the big brain on Ben."
posted by mosk at 8:36 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

SPICEY RETURNS tomorrow.

Surly Spice is my least favorite Spice Girl.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:39 PM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

And, contrary to comments above, it doesn't only affect the poor. The middle class get shafted by the tapering-off of the subsidy.

And lifetime limits. Beep-beep-beep if you want your chemo to continue swipe your card here.

The bullshit about jacking your rates if you have a gap in coverage is just an individual mandate that fucks you triple if you don't buy COBRA.

That's not so much a mandate as an anti-mandate: it is designed to keep the uninsured uninsured unless they're so fucked that the alternative is 'dead in a ditch'. So it reinstates the mechanisms that lead care to be deferred, that allow conditions to develop past the point where screening would allow them to be treated cheaply and effectively, etc. -- the ones that the ACA has been dealing with for the past couple of years, which is one damn reason why premiums increased in its early years as people with decades of deferred care finally got treatment.

It's more fucking obscene for being shit-by-committee than if it were just a giant pile of shit dumped on people de novo.
posted by holgate at 8:42 PM on March 6, 2017 [29 favorites]

I just hope the Democrats don't weasel out and start voting for the fucking thing.

I honestly don't think that's going to happen. There's no political upside for any Dem, no matter how conservative. And in the Senate, for instance, having Shelley Moore Capito shitting bricks about Medicaid expansion should be a tell on how Joe Manchin can comfortably vote for the extremely unhealthy population of West Virginia.
posted by holgate at 8:47 PM on March 6, 2017 [9 favorites]

Are we taking bets on Feinstein?
posted by Artw at 8:50 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

No? A history of iffy votes on national security and intel stuff doesn't translate into being iffy on healthcare. Most of the Senate Dems were around in 2009-10 when 60 votes were needed for cloture on the ACA.
posted by holgate at 8:57 PM on March 6, 2017 [7 favorites]

Yeah. I know you'll never go broke betting on the Dems to weasel out, but this is a total slam dunk. It costs more AND covers fewer people AND there's already plenty of internal GOP opposition. This is going to get approximately zero Dem support.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:02 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

Are we taking bets on Feinstein?

My read on Feinstein's appalling performance on nominations is that she's suffering from an unhealthy deference to procedural norms -- e.g. the president should normally get the cabinet he wants, barring extraordinary circumstances -- and that she just hasn't managed the attitudinal shift required by the evidence that these circumstances are truly extraordinary.

That's a pretty serious failure, for which I hope she's held accountable, but I don't think it reflects on how she'll vote on her policy priorities. Preserving the ACA is one of her policy priorities. I could still see her going the wrong way on cloture, or some other procedural vote, when she really shouldn't.
posted by dirge at 9:05 PM on March 6, 2017 [10 favorites]

Oh, the Dems have gotten a candidate for the Montana special election, and he looks pretty interesting.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:06 PM on March 6, 2017 [23 favorites]

The plan repeals the cut in payments to hospitals for uncompensated care. When the Obamacare Medicaid expansion took place, the reasoning was that the Feds no longer had to pay emergency rooms to treat uninsured walk-ins since they were eligible for free Medicaid insurance. And indeed in expansion states uncompensated care was cut in half.

The new plan phases out the Medicaid expansion and reinstates the federal payment to hospitals for uncompensated care.

It's back to the the nightmare Republican refrain "If you can't afford health insurance just go to the emergency room."

Republicans on the march back to the last century.
posted by JackFlash at 9:07 PM on March 6, 2017 [13 favorites]

Julian Sanchez (@normative) on Twitter:

Well it goes like this, the caucus rifts, as the mandate falls but the surcharge lifts, and the baffled king is tweeting "how's that do ya?"
posted by Superplin at 9:16 PM on March 6, 2017 [13 favorites]

UNBAMACARE?
posted by Artw at 9:17 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

The really scary part of this bill: they're going to start ramming it through committees on Wednesday with no CBO score.

The even scarier part is that they can go around claiming how it doesn't change anything for anybody on Medicare, but the included tax cuts will make the Medicare Trust Fund go broke increasingly quickly, which will lead to calls for Medicare cuts "because we can't afford it."
posted by zachlipton at 9:21 PM on March 6, 2017 [31 favorites]

The far-right website that secretly records journalists

"I would say that the basic theme is xenophobic, they don't like immigrants," says Mathias Stahle, an investigative journalist for the Eskistultna-Kuriren newspaper.

"They would like to read more positive things about Donald Trump, they would like to see positive stories about modern Russia and they want to have positive views of neo-Nazis."

Unbeknownst to the journalists being called, the conversations are recorded, edited and posted online on the website as well as the YouTube page of Erik Johannson, the administrator of the website.

If trickery is the only wellness you have the you are setting yourself up to go down in flames. I don't like this at all but it signals to me that the right wing is feeling cornered and decidedly not winning.
posted by futz at 9:24 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

Ben Carson tries again a third time, and seems to be arguing with himself, as the guy who earlier intertwined the experiences of slaves and immigrants now says, "the slave narrative and immigrant narrative are two entirely different experiences...The two experiences should never be intertwined, nor forgotten."
posted by zachlipton at 9:24 PM on March 6, 2017 [5 favorites]

This reminds me of the conversation I had with a very libertarian (Paulite) physician a little while ago, when we agreed on early medical interventions being better than later ones. I made the case that you don't get early interventions unless the same entity is on the hook for the later ones, so it's in that entity's best interest to get shit done quickly and with better outcomes than letting it get worse and cost more to treat. If it's not the same entity footing the bill now vs 10 years down the line, they're not going to give a fuck. From a libertarian perspective, that entity can theoretically be the individual, but if you're a physician, you're smart enough to know that people don't save up $10,000 for an early-stage treatment so they're definitely not saving up $100,000 for a later-stage one.
posted by holgate at 9:28 PM on March 6, 2017 [13 favorites]

In crisis news, North Korea and Malaysia have banned the other country's citizens from leaving. The North Korean embassy in Malaysia is doing an emergency burn of documents. This will escalate, hopefully not with our help.
posted by bluecore at 9:30 PM on March 6, 2017 [6 favorites]

That sounds healthy.
posted by rhizome at 9:45 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

That sounds healthy.

It sounds like the slightly heavy foreshadowing coming from the CNN feed on the tv in the background at the other end of the diner in the first five minutes of a zombie movie, is what it sounds like.

Maybe this particular thing would've happened anyway, but I am wondering how many little fires like this got put out under the Washington Consensus before they even made a day's headlines. Because, for better and (I fear) for worse, that world is dead now.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:51 PM on March 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

"the slave narrative and immigrant narrative are two entirely different experiences...The two experiences should never be intertwined, nor forgotten."

"The immigrants didn't even get free transportation across the Atlantic, like the slaves did." [fake]
posted by thelonius at 9:53 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

I am wondering how many little fires like this got put out under the Washington Consensus before they even made a day's headlines.

Well, at least Tillerson got an Exxon Mobil copypasta press release out of the day.
posted by holgate at 9:54 PM on March 6, 2017 [3 favorites]

On the whole healthcare thing.

What's ad time on DJT's fav. networks cost? Because one spot where they roll the video of him going

"reforms that expand choice, increase access, lower costs, and, at the same time, provide better healthcare."

And then a voice-over, "The Republican Congress ripped away choice, limited access, increased costs, and provides less healthcare for the Americans who trusted DJT..."

etc... Lather, rinse, repeat.
posted by mikelieman at 10:09 PM on March 6, 2017 [27 favorites]

CNN: This is what Trump sees when he opens his Twitter feed

For a man with 26.1 million Twitter followers, President Donald Trump follows back surprisingly few people on his @realdonaldtrump account - a mere 43.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:59 PM on March 6, 2017 [1 favorite]

I had a thought. Surely something about this must be wrong, but I can't see it.

So, if Republicare passed, you'd no longer be required to purchase insurance. But insurers also can no longer deny coverage because of pre-existing conditions. And the penalty for not having continuous coverage is a 30% surcharge on the monthly cost.

So what's to stop healthy people from simply not buying insurance until they get sick, get treated at a 30% surcharge per month, and then promptly cancel the insurance once they are fixed up? Such that the risk pool is vastly skewed towards sick individuals, pushing premiums into the stratosphere?
posted by Justinian at 11:30 PM on March 6, 2017 [14 favorites]

So what's to stop healthy people from simply not buying insurance until they get sick, get treated at a 30% surcharge per month, and then promptly cancel the insurance once they are fixed up?

Basically nothing.

It's worth remembering that Republicans aren't actually good at writing laws.
posted by mightygodking at 11:40 PM on March 6, 2017 [37 favorites]

So what's to stop healthy people from simply not buying insurance until they get sick, get treated at a 30% surcharge per month, and then promptly cancel the insurance once they are fixed up?

Oooh, I know, I know!!!

Every insurance company getting out of the individual medical insurance business because there's no way to make money at it!?
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:56 PM on March 6, 2017 [33 favorites]

White House press release (left) contains full paragraph copied verbatim from Exxon press release (right).

The word plagiarism needs to be in that headline. That will draw eyeballs, with the kicker that it's plagiarized from a huge special interest (the world's second richest corporation IIRC).
posted by msalt at 11:58 PM on March 6, 2017 [2 favorites]

I've been trying to ponder out the same thing, Justinian. The catch with that scheme is that, I believe, the open enrollment period will still apply, so you can't just buy coverage on the individual market with with the 30% surcharge anytime you want. You'd need a special enrollment period to buy most plans outside of open enrollment time. It's not always impossible to engineer one of those if you really need it, but it's still a problem. It still could work out in a healthy young person's favor to go without insurance and, to the extent possible, delay care until they can enroll, but there's risk involved.

That said, I'm pretty sure they pulled 30% out of their ass and there's no actuarial basis for that number. There should be some actual number for how much more it's likely to cost to insure people who don't maintain continuous coverage, and if that number is substantially higher than 130% of premiums, and I have a hunch it is, this is going to bankrupt the individual market in short order.

It actually ends up acting as a huge disincentive for people to get covered. Say you're an invincible-feeling 20-something, newly freed from the individual mandate, and you go without health insurance for a while, perhaps because the new age-based tax credits don't provide you with enough of a subsidy so you can't afford it. One Christmas, you're making a bit more money, you feel sufficiently adult-like to actually get yourself a plan, or parents' nagging finally gets to you, and you go to enroll. Congratulations! You get to pay 30% more. Perhaps you see the higher price, give up, and remain uninsured. You try again next year, but since the new tax credits aren't indexed to the costs of the insurance plans, you find that they're even more affordable than last year. Meanwhile, the 60-year-old diabetic with heart trouble has done their darnedest to maintain continuous coverage if they can possibly afford it because they need it, so they're not stuck with the surcharge. The plan actively discourages the very people they need to buy coverage from buying it.

The whole point of the ACA was to get as many young healthy people to sign up on the individual market as possible, in order to fill out the risk pools so it's not just desperately sick people. It used the carrot of the subsidies and the stick of the mandate penalty to achieve that, and they still haven't fully met their goal in that regard. Under the Republicans' plan, the subsidies will provide less and the penalty is gone. That's going to drive young healthy people away. Worse, instead of encouraging the young and healthy uninsured to buy into the system, the very thing that's crucial to keep it running, the plan directly discourages it, because it will slaps them with a 30% surcharge.

The whole thing seems like a recipe to simply not have an individual insurance market in a couple of years.
posted by zachlipton at 11:59 PM on March 6, 2017 [38 favorites]

North Korea says it was practicing to hit U.S. military bases in Japan with missiles

Sorry, no, we are busy, no time for you!
posted by Artw at 12:00 AM on March 7, 2017 [13 favorites]

Next he'll be telling his boss that he can put his brain into a younger, more vigorous body. We can only hope.

Or: BUG STEVE BANNON.
posted by adamgreenfield at 12:00 AM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

The repeated calls of the replacement healthcare plan being dead in the water should be calming to me but instead it just has echoes of people saying Trump was absolutely not going to be elected. I'm not really sure I can be optimistic about anything in government these days.
posted by flatluigi at 12:03 AM on March 7, 2017 [25 favorites]

I guess my real point is that the Republicans see the 30% surcharge as a threat ("you have to maintain continuous coverage or you'll have to pay more, so you'd better get your coverage now and keep it"), while young and healthy individuals are going to see it as a trap ("you have to pay more to get coverage, so you're better off just not buying it"). And if that pattern happens on a large enough scale, nobody's going to write policies at any price.
posted by zachlipton at 12:04 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

thank god Trump can't read or I would be just waiting in abject horror for the through-the-curtains Oval Office covert snapshot of him consulting Ivanka about something with a paperback of I Will Fear No Evil casually lying on the table next to them

see the scenario that springs to mind for me is less Heinlein and more Gibson. Like I've already started to think of Favored Daughter as "Lady 1Ivanka Marie-France Trump-Ashpool."
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:10 AM on March 7, 2017 [13 favorites]

I don't have a huge amount of time for Louise Mensch, but she did well with this:

Mensch was regularly featured in the news when she was a politician. She was once contacted by an investigative journalist who claimed to have pictures proving that Mensch had taken drugs in a nightclub in the 1990s with the violinist Nigel Kennedy.

Mensch responded in a statement by saying it was “highly probable” and apologized for her dancing.

“Since I was in my twenties, I’m sure it was not the only incident of the kind; we all do idiotic things when young. I am not a very good dancer and must apologise to any and all journalists who were forced to watch me dance that night at Ronnie Scott’s,” she said.

posted by Joe in Australia at 12:18 AM on March 7, 2017 [26 favorites]

Every insurance company getting out of the individual medical insurance business because there's no way to make money at it!?

I would say, "more like, this legislation is dead in the water", but you know, fucking 2017.
posted by mikelieman at 12:39 AM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

While we're here I should probably apologize for my own club dancing in the 1990s.

I'm sorry, it's like that, and that's the way it was.
posted by mannequito at 12:44 AM on March 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

That said, I'm pretty sure they pulled 30% out of their ass and there's no actuarial basis for that number. There should be some actual number for how much more it's likely to cost to insure people who don't maintain continuous coverage, and if that number is substantially higher than 130% of premiums, and I have a hunch it is, this is going to bankrupt the individual market in short order.

I saw a suggestion it's built to fail.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:52 AM on March 7, 2017

North Korea says it was practicing to hit U.S. military bases in Japan with missiles

yelling at them on twitter is probably a decent response, tbh
posted by ryanrs at 1:07 AM on March 7, 2017

Politico: Kremlin-backed media turns on Trump

News outlets funded by Putin’s government rooted for Trump’s election but now relish the chaotic first weeks of his administration.

By Michael Crowley

03/07/17 05:06 AM EST

posted by sebastienbailard at 2:43 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

If anyone does have such a primer could you please forward copies to Republican politicians thanks.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:44 AM on March 7, 2017 [29 favorites]

Get Out (of the White House)( [Funny or Die]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:44 AM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

It doesn't work, that's the problem.
posted by Pendragon at 2:53 AM on March 7, 2017

Well, it's not really a "system". It's a largely unrelated morass of private, public, for profit and nonprofit entities that all have competing and incompatible ends.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:22 AM on March 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

american healthcare is what happens when you breed perverse incentives in a deep pit and only use the ones that manage to crawl out over the mangled bodies of their brethren
posted by murphy slaw at 3:32 AM on March 7, 2017 [38 favorites]

american healthcare is what happens when you breed perverse incentives in a deep pit and only use the ones that manage to crawl out over the mangled bodies of their brethren

So it's like The Apprentice...but with copays
posted by ian1977 at 3:54 AM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

As an actual answer to your question, vac2003, I would suggest the EconomixComix explainer of Obamacare and the follow-up written after a year or so of it in action and then their recent summary of Repeal and Replace. Note that the comics have not been updated to review the latest Republican proposal but reading through them should get you up to speed on the basic issues.
posted by bl1nk at 4:00 AM on March 7, 2017 [28 favorites]

From the Politico story linked by sebastienbailard:
It’s not that the Kremlin-controlled outlets which all but explicitly rooted for Trump to defeat Hillary Clinton last fall have changed their view of the New York mogul. It’s that Moscow’s main goal was always to undermine the U.S. political system, regardless of who is in the White House, experts said.
posted by mumimor at 4:01 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Usual caveats about John Schindler as a prognosticator and a person, but we have seen multiple reports of journalists being warned by Google about government-backed hackers trying to compromise passwords.

@20committee
Learned fm very reliable IC sources that Trump WH, w/help fm Russian intel, is targeting US journalists. Rough road ahead. Get ready, peeps
posted by chris24 at 4:09 AM on March 7, 2017 [19 favorites]

Fox & Friends segment 6:12 a.m. ET → Trump tweet 7:04 a.m. ET

Here's the Fox & Friends video segment

And Trump added a lie to his tweet.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:25 AM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

It’s that Moscow’s main goal was always to undermine the U.S. political system, regardless of who is in the White House, experts said.

I mean yes, but I think some of this Russian media coverage is just fronting. Like "We meant to do that." The current situation is not great for the Kremlin either. Congress is not going to let Trump roll back sanctions. It's become toxic to a political career to say anything pro-Russia or meet with Russia at all. And it's not really in Putin's interests either to have an unstable narcissist with his finger on the nuclear button.

But they can't officially admit that they had anything to do with this, and Putin would never admit he screwed up. So what can they say? "Look at the stupid Americans," is about their only good publicity move, internally or internationally.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:27 AM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Fox & Friends segment 6:12 a.m. ET → Trump tweet 7:04 a.m. ET

Here's the Fox & Friends video segment

And Trump added a lie to his tweet.

@chrislhayes
The President live-tweets Fox and Friends.
Think about that sentence.

---

And he's also embraced the House ACA replacement.

@realDonaldTrump
Our wonderful new Healthcare Bill is now out for review and negotiation. ObamaCare is a complete and total disaster - is imploding fast!
posted by chris24 at 4:30 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Elaine Chao slithered out of the garbage heap and let it slip to Hannity that Trump's master infrastructure plan is to sell off infrastructure to foreign investors. Listen closely as she catches herself and then tries to weasel out of it.

I guarantee someone right now in Congress is working on a plan to privatize oxygen.
posted by archimago at 4:36 AM on March 7, 2017 [64 favorites]

This reminds me of the conversation I had with a very libertarian (Paulite) physician a little while ago, when we agreed on early medical interventions being better than later ones. I made the case that you don't get early interventions unless the same entity is on the hook for the later ones, so it's in that entity's best interest to get shit done quickly and with better outcomes than letting it get worse and cost more to treat. If it's not the same entity footing the bill now vs 10 years down the line, they're not going to give a fuck. From a libertarian perspective, that entity can theoretically be the individual, but if you're a physician, you're smart enough to know that people don't save up $10,000 for an early-stage treatment so they're definitely not saving up $100,000 for a later-stage one.

Note that the libertarian physician was still getting paid. Probably 100K rather than 10K.
posted by srboisvert at 4:37 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

I mean yes, but I think some of this Russian media coverage is just fronting. Like "We meant to do that." The current situation is not great for the Kremlin either. Congress is not going to let Trump roll back sanctions. It's become toxic to a political career to say anything pro-Russia or meet with Russia at all. And it's not really in Putin's interests either to have an unstable narcissist with his finger on the nuclear button.

Yeah, it basically says that in the article. But what I think is that Moscow got incredibly lucky when Trump was elected and first had high hopes, and now are back to their original plan. Trump himself was just used all the way.
posted by mumimor at 4:40 AM on March 7, 2017

This should end well.

@reidepstein
Kellyanne Conway tells WSJ James Comey should put up or shut up https://t.co/KhdT2oIMqp

---

They really know how to sell it.

@NewDay
GOP Rep. Chaffetz: Americans may need to choose between "new iphone... they just love" and investing in health care [video]

---

More Chaffetz, but good news.

@CNNPolitics
Chaffetz: House Oversight won't investigate Trump's claims of widespread voter fraud because there's no evidence [video]
posted by chris24 at 4:45 AM on March 7, 2017 [23 favorites]

I'd wager that Russia is currently more occupied with the upcoming French and German elections and is more than content to let us implode on our own for now.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 4:45 AM on March 7, 2017 [13 favorites]

Sounds like the hard sell of Ryancare is going swimmingly so far. Keep it up, guys, you all sound not at all like a bunch of clueless morons.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:52 AM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

This paragraph from a recent New Yorker article helps explain my feeling that the market is too sanguine right now:

... in economics there’s a famous distinction ... between risk and uncertainty. Risk is when you don’t know exactly what will happen but nonetheless have a sense of the possibilities and their relative likelihood. Uncertainty is when you’re so unsure about the future that you have no way of calculating how likely various outcomes are. Business is betting that Trump is risky but not uncertain—he may shake things up, but he isn’t going to blow them up. What they’re not taking seriously is the possibility that Trump may be willing to do things—like start a trade war with China or a real war with Iran—whose outcomes would be truly uncertain.

Assuming that Trump won't do something that results in uncertain outcomes doesn't seem like a safe bet based on his current behavior.
posted by diogenes at 4:56 AM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

More Chaffetz, but good news.

Well, it's better than it could be, but still not an investigation into why Donald J. Trump lied in the first place, and whether it violates just 18 USC 1001 or both 18 USC 1001 and 18 USC 371.
posted by mikelieman at 4:58 AM on March 7, 2017 [13 favorites]

So I've been wrong about pretty much every political prediction I've made in the last year, so what the fuck do I know, but it seems like this replacement is dead in the water. Nobody likes it, and a lot of people hate it. The AARP has condemned it, and the AARP has sway with a pretty significant voting bloc. The insurers are going to hate it as soon as their actuaries run the numbers on whether that noncontinuous-coverage surcharge will work (it will not), I don't know what medical professionals are likely to say but it wouldn't surprise me if they hate it too. Even the people putting it forward have no real affection for this plan, and can't point to any substantive way this plan is better than the ACA; they only tolerate it inasmuch as it fills the "replace" part of their "repeal and replace" mantra.

If we're very lucky, this might kill the repeal mania outright, because it is rapidly becoming obvious just how shitty the non-single-payer healthcare options which are not the ACA are.
posted by jackbishop at 5:05 AM on March 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

I'd wager that Russia is currently more occupied with the upcoming French and German elections and is more than content to let us implode on our own for now.

Don't forget the the Dutch elections next week.
posted by Pendragon at 5:06 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

GOP Rep. Chaffetz: Americans may need to choose between "new iphone... they just love" and investing in health care

This Is What Conservatives Actually Believe
posted by zombieflanders at 5:07 AM on March 7, 2017 [100 favorites]

Man, I wish I could get good healthcare for the cost of an iPhone. That would be an immense improvement.
posted by Aznable at 5:10 AM on March 7, 2017 [76 favorites]

I guarantee someone right now in Congress is working on a plan to privatize oxygen.

Perri-Air, certainly.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:11 AM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

I wish I could get good healthcare for the cost of an iPhone

Right? I LOVE it when Republicans tell me I should pay for my kids' $160k pee year in medication out of a health savings account.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:12 AM on March 7, 2017 [30 favorites]

Americans may need to choose between "new iPhone... they just love" and running water.
posted by notyou at 5:13 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Man, I wish I could get good healthcare for the cost of an iPhone. That would be an immense improvement.

Do they have free healthcare if I sign a 2 year contract?
posted by Glibpaxman at 5:14 AM on March 7, 2017 [28 favorites]

Americans may need to choose between running water and "that new iPhone... they just love."

Easy. Move to Flint, enjoy your phone.
posted by thelonius at 5:15 AM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

This Is What Conservatives Actually Believe

Yeah, on the one hand, I want to broadcast this idea far and wide -- that the Republican platform is 100% "fuck you, got mine" (and sometimes just "fuck you," to be honest) -- but the fact is that there are millions of people who genuinely believe that basic human services are (and should be) privileges earned through Hard Work and Sacrifice™.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:19 AM on March 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

DontCare™
posted by localhuman at 5:24 AM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

And he's also embraced the House ACA replacement.

@realDonaldTrump
Our wonderful new Healthcare Bill is now out for review and negotiation. ObamaCare is a complete and total disaster - is imploding fast!

He 100% pulled a "get some nerds to do my homework" move and doesn't understand any of what he turned in.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:27 AM on March 7, 2017 [61 favorites]

Calling them nerds gives them too much credit. They are hacks and frauds.
posted by diogenes at 5:35 AM on March 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

Elaine Chao slithered out of the garbage heap and let it slip to Hannity that Trump's master infrastructure plan is to sell off infrastructure to foreign investors. Listen closely as she catches herself and then tries to weasel out of it.

On Vox's podcast The Weeds they pointed out that Betsy DeVos was a terrible choice for Secretary of Education not just because of her ideas about Public Education but also because a large part of the job of being a Cabinet Secretary is speaking in front of various groups and articulating clearly (and passionately defending) the President's vision and DeVos fails utterly at that requirement. Well add Elaine Chao-- she is amazingly inept.

She gets a chance on Hannity's show to prepare and excite the FOX audience for Trump's upcoming Infrastructure plans and even with Hannity helping her out I can't see anyone coming away thinking, "Oh this is going to be great!" She has a canned speech, she stumbles through it, and she fails to make her case: America is a rotting hellhole and we can't afford to fix anything ourselves, but private businesses are willing to help out.

1.) Why can't we afford to fix things? We are the wealthiest country on Earth and Americans are the most innovative people on Earth, right?

2.) Which companies are going to help and will they get tax incentives? If they rebuild a road or a bridge does it belong to them forever?

3.) How does the Federal Government decide which things get privatized? Do the states have any input?

Just yesterday I was listening to BBC radio show (News Quiz) and they were bemoaning the outrageous prices for train travel. Many if not most of the railway lines were privitized and now belong to foreign companies and so the British people find themselves paying 4 to 6 times the price for a ticket that people in Germany pay for a comparable trip on their National Trains.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:37 AM on March 7, 2017 [35 favorites]

The bill is there to give Congress cover. It's dead in the water. They'll fight hard to get it passed, and fail, all along banking on the fact that their core supporters won't actually understand or care to understand what is in the actual bill. It is a bill to stick it to Obamacare and that's all they want.

So, when it crashes and burns, all the R congresscritters can just keep on campaigning on a promise to repeal Obamacare next time. That's all they've got. "Fuck Obamacare" has worked to get them elected for 8 years, there is no way they give up its sweet mojo to actually do something.

Mark my words, Senate and the Democrats will get blamed when this shitshow gets canned and it'll be business as usual for the base. "Fuck Obamacare, vote R."
posted by lydhre at 5:40 AM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

The middle class get shafted by the tapering-off of the subsidy.

It doesn't kick in for married families until 150k, though, which is at least approaching upper middle class.

Do we have numbers on how many people have employer provided health insurance? I'm getting the vague sense this is meant to appeal to that group but would like to see precisely how crazy that is.
posted by corb at 5:44 AM on March 7, 2017

Do we have numbers on how many people have employer provided health insurance?

I don't have that number, but I just read that 90% of Americans get their coverage through their employer or Medicare/Medicaid.
posted by diogenes at 5:47 AM on March 7, 2017

Palm Beach Post: Donald Trump’s Florida presidency: 241+ hours in Sunshine State

When Air Force One took off, Trump’s presidency was 1,060 hours old and he had spent approximately 241¾ of those hours in Florida — or 22.8 percent of his time in office.[...]

Trump’s Florida time has included eight apparent golf outings, though the White House seldom confirms whether the president is playing.

He’s also conducted business from Palm Beach, including meetings with three Cabinet secretaries on Saturday, interviews of national security adviser candidates last month and an al fresco dinner strategy session with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on Feb. 11 after North Korea test-fired a missile.

I'm glad people are keeping track-- it is another thing to beat him over the head with.

So, when it crashes and burns, all the R congresscritters can just keep on campaigning on a promise to repeal Obamacare next time. That's all they've got. "Fuck Obamacare" has worked to get them elected for 8 years, there is no way they give up its sweet mojo to actually do something.

This might be a preview of what will happen if they try to end legal abortion entirely. For years the promise of abortion rights being curtailed has gotten Republicans to the polls. What would happen if this Republican-controlled government tries to outlaw abortion? The situation is a little different because of the legal precedent of Roe vs. Wade but the base surely notices that they have the means to pass some serious legislation on this topic. Will they be fobbed off by a failed plan to defund PP?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:50 AM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

Do you think Rob Quist would busk with me?
posted by pxe2000 at 5:51 AM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

They had SEVEN YEARS to plan a replacement

Oh they have a coherent replacement. Several. Fascervative think tanks don't just play Minesweeper all day.

For some reason the Bigly Orange gatekeeper didn't want to even peek at anything he didn't "think up". Who could have foreseen such narcissistic incomptitude?
posted by petebest at 5:51 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

The people who get shafted by the subsidy in the Republican proposal are low-income young people. Up until $75,000 a year, there's a flat subsidy which is determined by a person's age. Older people get more than younger people, because older people pay more for insurance than younger people do, and it's not conservative to take into account what people actually need. So that means that if you're a 20-year-old making $20,000 a year, you get much less subsidy than a 50-year-old making $75,000 a year.

The other people who get shafted are people with very expensive illnesses, because according to what I've read, the plan gets rid of the ban on lifetime limits. So if you have a very premature baby, your baby may hit her lifetime limit a month into her three-month NICU stay, and at that point you're on your own. Pro-life-y!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:53 AM on March 7, 2017 [30 favorites]

He 100% pulled a "get some nerds to do my homework" move and doesn't understand any of what he turned in.

Yeah, the earlier official WH statement about RyanCare was careful not to officially endorse it. But Donny just had to take credit for others' work, not realizing it's gonna crash and burn and taint him as well now.
posted by chris24 at 5:54 AM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

Rand Paul just tweeted that he will be on FOX & Friends this morning to talk about "ObamaCare Lite." Guessing he is not on board. Hopefully he will point out the many flaws to F&F's Number One Fan.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:54 AM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Erm, sorry: not subsidy. Tax credit. A subsidy would mean you actually had the money when you needed to pay it.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:55 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Rand Paul just tweeted that he will be on FOX & Friends this morning to talk about "ObamaCare Lite." Guessing he is not on board. Hopefully he will point out the many flaws to F&F's Number One Fan.

But doesn't Paul hate it for the same reason as Cruz; it's not awful enough? I mean I'll take his vote against it to ensure it doesn't pass since I'm fairly positive a Paul/Cruz EvenWorseCare won't pass, but I'm not sure he's going to convince Trump to improve it the way we want.
posted by chris24 at 5:57 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

This is an incredibly depressing thread about the everyday calculations a Sikh family went through, because racism. Nothing happened and everything was fine, but just bringing a misdelivered package to the neighbors involves fear for one's life and careful planning in Trump's America.

I am kind of a wimp as it is but I have had similar experiences recently. The day before yesterday I was talking to my sister on the phone while walking home and I ran into the delivery man, and I really regretted that I let him hear me speaking Spanish and he knows where I live. I have no real reason to think this particular guy is racist but...you never know now.

When Trump started his hateful campaign, I had to add racists/jingoists to my Schrödinger list, that was a sad day.
posted by Tarumba at 5:58 AM on March 7, 2017 [15 favorites]

Just yesterday I was listening to BBC radio show (News Quiz) and they were bemoaning the outrageous prices for train travel. Many if not most of the railway lines were privitized and now belong to foreign companies and so the British people find themselves paying 4 to 6 times the price for a ticket that people in Germany pay for a comparable trip on their National Trains.

The real kicker is that those British Trains are run by the national train operators of other European countries. So the Brits are subsidizing the train rides of the rest of Europe because they privatized with half-assed conservative regulatory structures that completely failed them.
posted by srboisvert at 5:58 AM on March 7, 2017 [30 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump
For eight years Russia "ran over" President Obama, got stronger and stronger, picked-off Crimea and added missiles. Weak! @foxandfriends

Good morning everybody. We're all gonna die.

So we've about reached the point where to prove he's not Putin's puppet, he starts a war with Russia. Honestly, surprised it took this long.
posted by chris24 at 6:02 AM on March 7, 2017 [20 favorites]

Putin gave trump permission to look like he's tough on Russia, looks like.
posted by Tarumba at 6:03 AM on March 7, 2017 [13 favorites]

*cough* Weakened language on Ukraine in GOP party platform *cough*
posted by PenDevil at 6:05 AM on March 7, 2017 [28 favorites]

Watch for him toughly removing sanctions.
posted by Artw at 6:05 AM on March 7, 2017 [25 favorites]

Man, I wish I could get good healthcare for the cost of an iPhone. That would be an immense improvement.

I don't know about your plan but my employer based plan ostensibly costs about one new and latest iPhone.

Per month.
posted by srboisvert at 6:06 AM on March 7, 2017 [39 favorites]

The middle class get shafted by the tapering-off of the subsidy.

It doesn't kick in for married families until 150k, though, which is at least approaching upper middle class.

Do we have numbers on how many people have employer provided health insurance? I'm getting the vague sense this is meant to appeal to that group but would like to see precisely how crazy that is.

As far as I can tell, the tax credit is calculated based on "eligible coverage months" which excludes any month in which the individual is eligible for "other specified coverage." Other specified coverage is defined to exclude coverage under a group health plan, defined in IRC Sec. 5000(b)(1) as basically employer-provided insurance (including for self employed ppl), other than workers comp and disability insurance and things like that and cobra continuation coverage.

So, it looks like the income exclusion for employer-provided healthcare remains, but that people who get their insurance through an employer will not be eligible for the tax credits.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:09 AM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Slaves: Involuntary immigrants.
Kidnap victims: Tourists who like to ride in the trunk.
Murder victims: Over-enthusiastic thrill-seekers.
Assault victims: Mixed-fighting competitors.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:11 AM on March 7, 2017 [13 favorites]

During my stint in marketing for healthcare, just prior to ACA, I learned that in general large insurers hate the individual market--it's not profitable. The money is in big negotiated plans with large corporations. ACA actually helped by putting young people on their parents' plans until a time they could get on some employer plan, and of course old people were taken care of by Medicare + some supplemental forms of insurance.

Making money out of healthcare is difficult, though and requires constant tweaking and negotiating, and even if you aim to screw your clients, there's a lot of risk. Your customers are constantly wanting to renegotiate, your competition is circling, and the doctors you contract with are surly and cranky because this is not what they went to medical school for.*

I've been out of the industry for a while so maybe they've lost their minds since then, but I have a hard time believing they are excited about something as wacky as this plan. It's going to increase most of their headaches and decrease none of them.

*All of which argues for a national healthcare system, but industries are very resistant to writing themselves out of existence even when it makes sense. Corporations and industries are only as logical as the humans in them.
posted by emjaybee at 6:12 AM on March 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

@NewDay
GOP Rep. Chaffetz: Americans may need to choose between "new iphone... they just love" and investing in health care

These people have no idea how much anything costs, do they?
posted by dis_integration at 6:12 AM on March 7, 2017 [60 favorites]

Slaves: Involuntary immigrants.
Kidnap victims: Tourists who like to ride in the trunk.
Murder victims: Over-enthusiastic thrill-seekers.
Assault victims: Mixed-fighting competitors.

We already know what they think when it comes to victims of rape and sexual assault.
posted by Artw at 6:13 AM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

The real kicker is that those British Trains are run by the national train operators of other European countries. So the Brits are subsidizing the train rides of the rest of Europe because they privatized with half-assed conservative regulatory structures that completely failed them.

That only half explains the shit-fit that the British railway system is. The Tories had the brilliant idea of separating the trains from the track when they privatised British Rail. Railtrack had responsibility for the tracks, with the various train operating companies having responsibility for the trains. This lead to massive complications with charges, payments and fines between the various parties, and cases where the responsible party for a delay wasn't necessarily the one who felt the pain. The various entities were meant to become self sufficient after a period, but subsidies have continued over the last 23 years, and have actually cost more than British Rail. Railtrack effectively went bust, and became a government owned company called National Rail, but all kind of gymnastics were used to try and argue that its assets and liabilities were not actually part of the government's balance sheet. So we pay more as individuals, and as a nation, while still retaining the risks.

They were privatised to introduce efficiencies and competition.
posted by MattWPBS at 6:15 AM on March 7, 2017 [22 favorites]

GOP Rep. Chaffetz: Americans may need to choose between "new iphone... they just love" and investing in health care

Only repubs can be condescending and clueless at the same time with such ease
posted by Tarumba at 6:16 AM on March 7, 2017 [23 favorites]

GOP Rep. Chaffetz: I may need to choose between "a democracy, civilization, and biosphere... I just love" and continuing to refuse to investigate the regime
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:16 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

GOP Rep. Chaffetz: Americans may need to choose between "new iphone... they just love" and investing in health care

Remember when Carter basically lost an election because he suggested Americans turn down the thermostat and wear a sweater?
posted by entropicamericana at 6:17 AM on March 7, 2017 [58 favorites]

I mean, it's health care, America. How much could it cost? A couple of hundred dollars?
posted by pretentious illiterate at 6:19 AM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Oh they have a coherent replacement. Several. Fascervative think tanks don't just play Minesweeper all day.

Speaking only for myself, I'm down about 78 grand to Bill Gates in Solitaire.
posted by mikelieman at 6:21 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

They were privatised to introduce efficiencies and competition.

To digress a moment, one of the things that infuriates me about privatization discourse is that we have the sterling example of UK privatization under the Tories, and what a giant disaster it's been in virtually every area, and yet that very seldom gets brought up on either side of any privatization debate. It's like the minute you say "privatize", you're in the realm of morality so any actual examples are totally irrelevant.

Even thinking about Thatcher raises my blood pressure - the NHS and the rail system, etc, were so utterly admirable given the conditions of Anglosphere political systems and the UK in particular! They worked! They were so good compared to anything we have here in America! Ugh, if our own little iron curtain can be gotten rid of and I ever actually travel to the UK, I will have to practice spitting from a distance since I'm pretty sure that her grave is set up so that you can't actually dance on it.
posted by Frowner at 6:21 AM on March 7, 2017 [31 favorites]

Yeah, the earlier official WH statement about RyanCare was careful not to officially endorse it. But Donny just had to take credit for others' work, not realizing it's gonna crash and burn and taint him as well now.

Good point. It's going to be just like what happened with the Yemen raid. In the immediate aftermath, Trump was quick to crow about how decisive a leader he was and about all that great intelligence the raid got, but once everyone started hammering him about the Navy SEAL he got killed, he went on Fox and Friends to blame "the generals" for losing him. It's been said that conservatism cannot fail; it can only be failed. Well, now that conservatism has become the personality cult of Donald Trump, we're seeing that adage confirmed on a weekly basis.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 6:24 AM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

It's like the minute you say "privatize", you're in the realm of morality so any actual examples are totally irrelevant.

It's not like that, it is that. You've heard "The movement cannot fail, it can only be failed", right? I have heard people say, with a straight face, that the reason Kansas is failing is because Brownback wasn't allowed to go far enough.

"Yellow pages government" is absolutely a moral stance.
posted by Etrigan at 6:26 AM on March 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

I'm just waiting for someone to convince Trump to call it FetchCare.
posted by Mchelly at 6:26 AM on March 7, 2017

Tangential jinx. J.K. Seazer owes me an orthogonal Coke.
posted by Etrigan at 6:26 AM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

So yesterday we learned that TrumpCare is really obsessed with lottery winners, contains massive tax cuts for health insurance CEO's (because apparently that's really important to healthcare?), covers fewer people, screws young people, and is in general total shitpile. About what we expected in other words.

And no, I don't think the problem is that the Republicans had a better plan but Trump wanted this, I think they just didn't have a good plan because ideologically they can't.

ObamaCare **IS** the Republican plan, it's what the CATO Institute proposed, it's what Republican Mitt Romney put in place when he was governor, it's top to bottom corporate. It's a testimony to the visceral hatred the Republicans had for Obama that none of them voted for it, because it's the plan invented by their guys as the only ideologically correct way to go.

It puts almost everything in private, for profit, insurance corporations, the exception being the Medicare expansion.

And if you're going to have for profit insurance corporations as the centerpiece of anything that even tries to be a universal healthcare system, you need the tripod of mandate, subsidy, and pre-existing conditions.

The Republicans are literally incapable of making an alternate proposal because their ideology won't permit anything but either what's already there, or letting poor people die in the street. And while Ron Paul got cheers for proposing exactly that, I think they know "let them die in the street" won't really sell well to many of their voters.

So of course there's no real alternative Republican plan. There can't be, not given their ideology.

On the left there's room for alternatives, everything from Universal Single Payer to bigger subsidies to whatever. Because our backs aren't against the wall, ideologically speaking. But Republicans can't do a better plan that fits their ideology.

I argue that this is basically the same as why Trump's infrastructure "plan" is so much of a joke. Ideologically they can't do anything except sell off infrastructure to foreign investors and make us pay tolls for everything. They aren't permitted to acknowledge that public roads, bridges, and so forth are valid so there is literally only one possible plan they can advance. And it's what Cho let slip: sell off our infrastructure to anyone (foreign or domestic) and let them gouge everyone for giant tolls.

Paying for infrastructure with taxes is anathema to the Republicans, anyone expecting that Trump's bullshit about $1 trillion in infrastructure spending was anything but lies meaning "we give $1 trillion in tax breaks or subsidies to building companies" wasn't paying attention.

Even if Trump personally liked the idea of spending tax money on infrastructure, the Republican Congress would never pass it.

Just like even if Trump had had a real ObamaCare replacement (yeah, right) the Republican Congress would never pass it.

It isn't even that they're Machiavellian and know they need ObamaCare around as a thing to oppose. Its just that there is an extremely narrow range of things the Republican Congress is ideologically capable of doing, and meaningful healthcare reform, or infrastructure building, or meaningful immigration reform, are not within that range of ideologically acceptable action.
posted by sotonohito at 6:28 AM on March 7, 2017 [76 favorites]

Stop trying to make fetch happen.
posted by emelenjr at 6:33 AM on March 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

This thing is going to fuck over so many MAGA hat wearers I wonder at the size of government funded jobs creation scheme he'd have to drop in their back yards to even begin to make up for it.
posted by Artw at 6:33 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

If the ACA was Obamacare, surely the republican response should be called “shmobamacare.”
posted by Riki tiki at 6:34 AM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Here you go, Etrigan
posted by J.K. Seazer at 6:34 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

They were privatised to introduce efficiencies

The thing you have to remember is that to the consumer profit is indistinguishable from inefficiency.

Say you've got Widgets and the actual cost of producing a widget is $100.

In a zero profit, perfectly efficient, universe the cost to the consumer would be $100.

But if Acme Widgets makes a Widget then they have to add profit. And if Wal-Store is selling that Widget it needs to add profit. So Acme sells Widgets to Wal-Store not at cost, but for $120 making a nice 20% profit.

And Wal-Store sells them to the public for $144 because they've tacked on another 20% profit for themselves.

If the Widgets were made with a 44% added cost due to inefficiency but sold to the public at cost there'd be no difference from a consumer standpoint, the cost to us is the same whether the extra comes out as inefficiency or profits.

To the people actually buying the good or service profit and inefficiency are one and the same. It makes absolutely no difference to me whether that extra added on to the theoretical perfect efficiency cost of the product is going to someone's gold plated yacht, or just evaporating in lost therbligs, the result is identical from my POV: I pay more.
posted by sotonohito at 6:36 AM on March 7, 2017 [34 favorites]

This thing is going to fuck over so many MAGA hat wearers I wonder at the size of government funded jobs creation scheme he'd have to drop in their back yards to even begin to make up for it.

I think it'll take a whole lot of raw suffering among recaps before "there are brown people somewhere" stops working as an explanation for why they suddenly have less/no health coverage.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:36 AM on March 7, 2017 [21 favorites]

From the "Whoops, we done fucked up" file:

People’s Daily, the flagship newspaper of the ruling Communist Party, mimicked Mr. Trump’s characteristic bluster — and his fondness for capital letters — on Friday in denouncing Western news coverage of a Chinese lawyer and human rights advocate who said he had been tortured.
Foreign media reports that police tortured a detained lawyer is FAKE NEWS, fabricated to tarnish China's image https://t.co/xDfMUmtYfH pic.twitter.com/cH8i81xb0T
— People's Daily,China (@PDChina) March 3, 2017
An article on the topic a day earlier by Xinhua, the state-run news agency, had accused the foreign news media of “hype” and suggested that legal activists were manipulating the press to “smear the Chinese government.”

USA? USA? USA?
posted by petebest at 6:37 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump

Don't let the FAKE NEWS tell you that there is big infighting in the Trump Admin. We are getting along great, and getting major things done!
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:42 AM on March 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

To the people actually buying the good or service profit and inefficiency are one and the same. It makes absolutely no difference to me whether that extra added on to the theoretical perfect efficiency cost of the product is going to someone's gold plated yacht, or just evaporating in lost therbligs, the result is identical from my POV: I pay more.

Perhaps in your world view, but not mine. Because from where I sit, treating profit as a form of inefficiency for the consumer winds up becoming justification to fuck workers over.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:43 AM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

I have a very good employer-provided plan for myself and my family that is one of those things that makes working at a university for not very good pay and no advancement opportunity worth it. I still pay $400/month for it, which is twice what I paid for my Samsung J7 brand new.

Anyway, yes, it is absolutely ideological and an article of faith for some people that the free market is always better. You can produce as much evidence to the contrary as you want and it's no true scotsmen all the way down. They didn't do it right, they didn't do it long enough, hard enough, freedomy enough, etc...

When you actually literally believe that taxation is theft and a violation of your human rights, this is what happens. Next stop: moon law.

Source: my parents.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:43 AM on March 7, 2017 [29 favorites]

The One Way Trump’s Administration Really Is a Fine-Tuned Machine
Undeniably, deregulation saves companies lots of money in compliance and legal costs. But you need only look at one indicator, the stock market, to understand to whom that money ultimately flows. Trump’s election has coincided with a boom in equity prices. And what do stocks measure? Expected future profits, not capital investment or job creation. Soaring stocks, particularly in industries to which the market believes Trump will hand a lifeline, tell you what gets done with all of the savings on compliance. It goes to the executives and the shareholders, not to workers or consumers. The benefits, in short, don’t get passed on; they stay in the C-suites and the stock portfolios.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:44 AM on March 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

I made a joke in the last thread about the kinds of money laundering schemes Trump could get up to with the backing of the federal government, and I wasn't expecting to see that as a reality so soon with his infrastructure plan - overpriced real estate's got nothing on vital infrastructure for that purpose, buy up infrastructure and when it's time to liquidate the assets the feds or states will have to buy it off you if nobody else is willing, since we kind of need it.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:46 AM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

@YAppelbaum:

The lower your income, the more likely you are to rely on a smartphone for internet access—to jobs, education, etc

For the wealthy, smartphones can be a luxury—one of many portals to the digital world. For the working poor, they're more often a necessity.

posted by zombieflanders at 6:48 AM on March 7, 2017 [80 favorites]

WSJ: Federal Aid Reduced for New York City Housing Authority: New York City’s public housing authority will see at least $35 million less in federal aid this year, in what appears to be the first significant funding cuts to the city under President Donald Trump.

Senior officials at the New York City Housing Authority said the cuts were the largest decrease in funding the agency has seen in five years. Citing conversations with federal housing officials, they said they were bracing for additional cuts that could be far greater, and total $150 million. Shola Olatoye, the agency’s chief executive officer, said a reduction of that size would be devastating.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:48 AM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

Ugh it really is just an all-out War on the Poor.
posted by archimago at 6:56 AM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

Oh my god.

Trump just surprised visitors on a White House tour. Crowd loved it. Notice the wall behind him.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:57 AM on March 7, 2017 [20 favorites]

The Milwaukee-area JCC received an emailed threat this morning.
posted by drezdn at 6:59 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Alec Baldwin: I likely won’t play Trump much longer: “There’s a style the president has to have, and I think the maliciousness of this White House is a little — has people very worried, which I why I’m not going to do it much longer, by the way, that whole impersonation,” Baldwin told “Extra” host Mario Lopez in a Monday interview. “I don’t think how much more people can take it, you know.”

“Trump just overwhelmingly lacks any kind of sportsmanship. He remains bitter and angry. And you want to look at him and you want to go, ‘You won!’ ” Baldwin said.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:59 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump just surprised visitors on a White House tour. Crowd loved it. Notice the wall behind him.

It's amazing he didn't hack through the painting with a fire axe and explode through from behind.
posted by uncleozzy at 7:00 AM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Russian front group Wikileaks just dumped a treasure trove of what it says are CIA 0-day hacking tools online, including tools for bypassing Signal/WhatsApp/Confide encryption and over air gaps.

Does Trump praise them now that they're hurting his own government's ability to protect national security?

[edit to add link]
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:00 AM on March 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

It's amazing he didn't hack through the painting with a fire axe and explode through from behind.

It's a Trump building now. There is no way there's enough safety equipment on the premises.
posted by Etrigan at 7:01 AM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Step 1: Get Russian asset Micheal Flynn in NatSec role
Step 2: Compromise US IC ops
Step 3: Grab Toys
Step 4: Play with toys
Step 5: Give some toys to Wikileaks
posted by localhuman at 7:08 AM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

North Korea says it was practicing to hit U.S. military bases in Japan with missiles

They should practice hitting Japan first.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:08 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

China now has a more socially progressive government than the USA.

In this new curriculum, students in Grade 2 learn about gender equality, and that whatever their ambition in life may be, they can excel at it. Women can make great police officers and even astronauts, and men can be outstanding nurses and kindergarten teachers [...]

In the section on inappropriate touching, students are made aware that this can come not just from strangers, but also from relatives and people they know. Furthermore, sexual predators can be male, or female. [...] Sexual abuse does not necessarily involve inappropriate touching. [...]

Students learn that some people want to be with members of the opposite sex and some want to be with members of the same sex, and that's all okay [...] Not only do people of different sexual orientations choose to get married, they have the right to become parents, students learn. [...]

They're also taught that people of different sexual orientations can all lead intimate and deeply fulfilling romantic lives. Students are made aware that in some countries, same-sex marriage is legal, although in China, same-sex marriages are not "currently" allowed to be registered.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:11 AM on March 7, 2017 [37 favorites]

I made a joke in the last thread about the kinds of money laundering schemes Trump could get up to with the backing of the federal government...

Here's a bit of background on what public-private infrastructure deals look like, this one featuring a prominent forei... other kind of investor.

tl;dr: fantastically arcane financing that winds up with the investor pocketing the government loan and other contributions, while using the loan guarantee as an exit strategy.

Speaking of infrastructure, we may need a new thread for Spicey Time. Let's finance it with an option on favorites, backed by a refundable warrant against possible future evens demand shock.
posted by notyou at 7:12 AM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

MetaFilter: a largely unrelated morass of private, public, for profit and nonprofit entities that all have competing and incompatible ends.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:13 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Lady 1Ivanka Marie-France Trump-Ashpool

"Read me the part again where Molly shoots the father in the eye with a shellfish-toxin flechette. That's my favorite!"
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:16 AM on March 7, 2017 [15 favorites]

Elaine Chao slithered out of the garbage heap and let it slip to Hannity that Trump's master infrastructure plan is to sell off infrastructure to foreign investors.

Great. I guess the border wall will be for sale once it's built.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:20 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

This twitter thread is an amazing comeback to Chaffitz:

I sold every iphone between 3G and 6. You know you can finance an iphone. Hell if you commit to a plan you phone company will buy it. I sold every iphone between 3G and 6. You know you can finance an iphone. Hell if you commit to a plan you phone company will buy it: apply for jobs. Set up unemployement, save the last voice messages of their dying partners. Set up emails. apply for childcare,WIC, An excon wept in my arms because he could get photos and music. I saw a coworker spend 6 hours with a woman who was nasty and distracted turns out ? Her husband of 30+ years had just died while she was being treated for cancer and he had sent her messages EVERY DAY and her eyes were going so she was terrified she would never hear his voice again . He fixed it and she damn near collapsed . She wept so hard we thought we'd have to call EMS . The oxygen TANK alone would have cost more than the Iphone and my coworkers entire day

Also PEOPLE APPLIED FOR HEALTHCARE ON THOSE CELL PHONES

I don't care enough to go up for Apple but this isnt about planning it's about punishment these people want anyone not white and rich back in the IRON AGE and call it Policy
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:20 AM on March 7, 2017 [100 favorites]

Speaking of the Republican view about health care, remember when Alan Grayson made that comment from the floor of the House? The one about how the Republican health care plan was basically, "Don't get sick. And if you do, die quickly"?

I remember the Republican outrage, outrage, that he would suggest that the GOP were so callous about making sure people got the help they needed, or that they might view dying as a preferential outcome.

Cue Republican state Senator Rob Schaaf from Missouri:

A long-running battle to establish a database to monitor for prescription drug abuse in Missouri — the only state without one — is about to hit a boiling point.

On one side is Republican state Senator Rob Schaaf, who once said that when people die of overdoses that “just removes them from the gene pool.”

Schaaf, who is a physician, has squashed legislation in the past six sessions to establish a prescription drug monitoring program, or PDMP. But sensing urgency that the legislation might pass this session, Schaaf introduced his own bill to set up a PDMP that’s unlike those in any other state — a proposal that medical experts have called a “sham.”

Stay classy, Republicans.
posted by darkstar at 7:23 AM on March 7, 2017 [28 favorites]

Great. I guess the border wall will be for sale once it's built.

I bet El Chapo will buy it from federal prison. Make money on tolls, federal dollars for security guards, and all the drugs and human trafficking you want can pass through. Maybe by "Mexico" will pay for the wall, he meant the Cartels all along.
posted by dis_integration at 7:24 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's also been a meme on the right that poor folks, prolly especially POC poor folks, waste their money on smartphones. That is, they do when they can't get their hands on a government subsidized Obamaphone.

So many dog whistles in that little aside!
posted by notyou at 7:25 AM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

Kevin Drum on how the Republican health insurance plan could destroy employer-provided healthcare markets as well as the individual market.

The whole reason employer-provided health insurance exists is because wages are taxed more than health care benefits, so health care is less expensive way for employers to compensate people than wages. Screw that up either by taxing health benefits, or by NOT taxing the wages, and all the sudden we'll ALL be on the individual market.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:26 AM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

@YAppelbaum:
The lower your income, the more likely you are to rely on a smartphone for internet access—to jobs, education, etc

For the wealthy, smartphones can be a luxury—one of many portals to the digital world. For the working poor, they're more often a necessity.

This. I've done a lot of NGO work in Cambodia, Haiti and Nepal and you can be in the poorest village or part of town where's there's no running water or electricity in their homes and they'll have cell phones. Because it's their phone, their computer, their internet, their connection to everyone and everything. And you don't need infrastructure to your home for it to work.
posted by chris24 at 7:27 AM on March 7, 2017 [35 favorites]

It's also been a meme on the right that poor folks, prolly especially POC poor folks, waste their money on smartphones. That is, they do when they can't get their hands on a government subsidized Obamaphone.

And before smartphones, it was refrigerators and microwaves.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:28 AM on March 7, 2017 [31 favorites]

look maybe if the poor didn't have these fancy iphones they would be motivated to walk down to the local factory and get a good job. (this is what tens of millions of americans actually believe)
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:29 AM on March 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

China now has a more socially progressive government than the USA.

Maybe I should have stayed there. I worked in China in my twenties and came back, mostly because of family here, but I thought very seriously about just having my whole career over there. It might not be too late, I guess - the US government isn't too popular over there, but as a broad generality, people didn't really seem to blame individual Americans much most of the time. I imagine it's more competitive on the coasts now, but I'm probably still young enough and competitive enough to get work in the interior or a smaller city on the coast.

Those were some good times, and on balance I was a happier and healthier person. Not just because I was younger, either.
posted by Frowner at 7:29 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

All Americans will now have access to health care.

On the monthly free museum days where they will see it displayed in a cabinet.
posted by srboisvert at 7:31 AM on March 7, 2017 [32 favorites]

I'm having a hard time squaring the "the Republicans don't know how to govern, they can't get anything done!" takes with all the horrible shit they seem to be getting done.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:34 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

I guess that the thing that is weird to me is that Republicans insist on talking about healthcare using the same talking-points that they use about welfare, as if the average voter is going to think of consumers of healthcare as "them" and not "us." And my hunch is that most of us have known someone who was really screwed because they got sick, or have been in that situation ourselves, or have gone without insurance and dealt with anxiety over it even if nothing terrible happened, or have struggled to pay our premiums, or have contributed to a fundraiser for someone who couldn't afford their healthcare, or have tried to help a friend or family-member find charity care or.... I don't think most people have the luxury of thinking about this as something that only affects irresponsible people, and it's sad but not surprising that Republican lawmakers are too out-of-touch to realize that.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:35 AM on March 7, 2017 [32 favorites]

For the real kool-aid drinkers (or a certain subset of them), though, it's not about people at all--either punishing or rewarding. People are just a squishy widget. It's about the purity of an idea. If the idea has a death toll, it can't be because it was a bad idea, because the idea is pure and true and good. The idea is that no one should pay for anyone else's anything and that any tax, any system where some people who have more give a little and some people have less get a little is immoral, right out of the gate. It doesn't matter that the squishy widgets that have less will literally die, because the idea is what matters, not the results.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:36 AM on March 7, 2017 [22 favorites]

Destroying isn't governing
posted by emjaybee at 7:36 AM on March 7, 2017 [21 favorites]

They don't want to govern, they want to rule.
posted by Floydd at 7:38 AM on March 7, 2017 [15 favorites]

I'm having a hard time squaring the "the Republicans don't know how to govern, they can't get anything done!" takes with all the horrible shit they seem to be getting done.

Oh, they're great at destruction. It's the creation part of getting things done where they fail.

(on preview, emjaybee beat me to it)
posted by diogenes at 7:38 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm having a hard time squaring the "the Republicans don't know how to govern, they can't get anything done!" takes with all the horrible shit they seem to be getting done.

Oh, they know how to break things and giveaways to business interests. I guess that's why they were elected, so maybe this is a smashing success.

If only we had a diner full of Trump voters in suburban Detroit to ask their opinion on 30% surcharges and defunding Planned Parenthood, then we'd know for sure.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:38 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

I don't think I get the logic of Baldwin quitting because people are frightened of HIS impersonation. Real life is a billion times scarier and there's nothing we can do to stop that--why can't we at least get some entertainment out of it?

People react in different ways, and I've been avoiding even watching Baldwin's impressions of Trump because it's too close to the real thing. I'm okay with the Conway skits and Spicer and Bannon, but Baldwin's Trump depresses me further.

Plus, not showing Trump and having 'President Bannon' do everything would be more damaging in Trump's mind. Make him a non-entity.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:40 AM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

Freedom Caucus isn't buying it.

Rep. Jim Jordan of Freedom Caucus trashes bill: "It's subsidies for unaffordable health care, subsidies for unaffordable premiums."

Uh-oh! Spaghetti-Os!
posted by Talez at 7:40 AM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

I understand that, it's just that a lot of people seem to be saying that they're not going to be able to destroy the stuff they want to destroy because they're too incompetent or something.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:41 AM on March 7, 2017

Warning sign for the GOP: the individual mandate, which has long been the least popular measure in the ACA, has reached majority support in a new CNN/ORC poll, with only 48% saying they want to scrap it.
posted by Rhaomi at 7:41 AM on March 7, 2017 [40 favorites]

I understand that, it's just that a lot of people seem to be saying that they're not going to be able to destroy the stuff they want to destroy because they're too incompetent or something.

Any examples?
posted by diogenes at 7:44 AM on March 7, 2017

Rhaomi: Warning sign for the GOP: the individual mandate, which has long been the least popular measure in the ACA, has reached majority support in a new CNN/ORC poll, with only 48% saying they want to scrap it.

Huh, it's like people understand that in order to maintain insurance that is actually used on a daily basis, lots of people need to buy it.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:46 AM on March 7, 2017 [21 favorites]

I think when Obama won the republican identity shifted to being opposition no matter what, and now that they are on the wheel they can't be the dissenting underdogs anymore.

This is also why trump is still complaining about the elections that he won, or making things up about Obama.

They put all their eggs in the basket of the powerless victim narrative, so now that they won the elections they are scrambling.
posted by Tarumba at 7:48 AM on March 7, 2017 [16 favorites]

speaking of all of those conservative think tanks that republicans didn't ask about healthcare, the Cato Institute is … lukewarm on the plan.

Everyone needs to take a step back. This bill is a train wreck waiting to happen.

posted by murphy slaw at 7:50 AM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

The hardcore will hang on to the victim narrative till the bitter end, and will use it to justify doing horrible, horrible things.
posted by Artw at 7:51 AM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

Huh, it's like people understand that in order to maintain insurance that is actually used on a daily basis, lots of people need to buy it.

And insurance companies understand this as well, without mandates and reasonable premiums healthier people tend to not purchase health insurance, which makes your pool average a lot more expensive. This is one of the reasons employers can offer lower insurance premiums - there is a more normal group distribution in personal health expenses, and lower overall risks.
posted by Tarumba at 7:54 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

The hardcore will hang on to the victim narrative till the bitter end, and will use it to justify doing horrible, horrible things.

Sure. If you're in the driver's seat, you have to take responsibility for running over all those pedestrians. But if you can claim that somebody else was trying to drive the bus off a cliff, you can pretend that you heroically grabbed the wheel to save the passengers, but a few pedestrians happened to get in the way.

also if they just worked harder they could afford cars and wouldn't have been walking in the first place
posted by uncleozzy at 7:56 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

McConnell signals GOP ACA bill will go straight to the floor after House passage. "I hope to call it up when we receive it from the House"

Remember when a year of debate was "ramming it down their throats?"
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:57 AM on March 7, 2017 [65 favorites]

McConnell signals GOP ACA bill will go straight to the floor after House passage. "I hope to call it up when we receive it from the House"

so, never
posted by murphy slaw at 7:58 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

I mean, if Paul LePage thinks something is a bad idea, maybe we should give it a second look.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:01 AM on March 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

I'm having a hard time squaring the "the Republicans don't know how to govern, they can't get anything done!" takes with all the horrible shit they seem to be getting done.

Plus, at this point, it kinda remains to be seen how much actual effect a lot of this horrible shit will have in the real world. Trump can EO all he wants, and Ryan and McConnell can speechify all they want, but Congress has to actually write and then pass laws for a lot of this stuff to actually happen - like they have to approve an actual budget with no money set aside for the NEA before anyone can be 100% sure that the NEA is going away. And then there are all the lawsuits that will follow, where (like the immigration EO) their laws and plans get struck down by judges.

I'm not dismissing all the horrible shit that HAS actually happened, and I'm not saying we should stop protesting and pestering our Congresscritters, but right now a lot of their horrible shit is still at the point where Trump & Co are just yelling "We're gonna do Horrible Shit!!" and/or "We give you permission to do Horrible Shit!!" and when someone asks, "OK, HOW, exactly, do we actually DO Horrible Shit", the answer is, "Ummmmmm . . . . we're still working on that . . . . . "

The ACA "Repeal & Replace" idea being a perfect example of that. Trump can pound on the Twitter all he wants, but it's the actual Republican House members that have to come up with an actual law to make this happen that will pass in the Senate and the House AND won't result in them getting thrown out on their ear in 2018, and they're having just a wee little bit (heavy sarcasm) of trouble doing that.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:01 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

I mean, if Paul LePage thinks something is a bad idea, maybe we should give it a second look.

Even a stopped clock....
posted by anastasiav at 8:02 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

McConnell signals GOP ACA bill will go straight to the floor after House passage. "I hope to call it up when we receive it from the House"

so, never

Or he wants to get it set up and knocked down as quickly as possible. The House is full of clowns who got there on empty ideological screaming (see earlier: Dave Brat) but the Senate knows about the reality of getting things done even if they often don't want to. McConnell knows they're the dog that caught the car and wants to get out from under this nightmare situation where they have to actually do things rather than just impede. Getting this shitpile up to where they can't even get cloture makes it someone else's fault.
posted by phearlez at 8:03 AM on March 7, 2017

Getting this shitpile up to where they can't even get cloture makes it someone else's fault.

Give it cloture. Let it get shot down in flames.
posted by Talez at 8:05 AM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

They don't want to govern, they want to rule.

All noblesse, no oblige.

( Noblesse oblige )
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:06 AM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

Civil and Immigrants’ Rights Groups Work to Win Release for Dreamer Daniela Vargas and Prevent Deportation (Press release)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:15 AM on March 7, 2017 [15 favorites]

Could someone please explain to me what the republican plan changes? I'm American, but I've lived abroad since I was 8. I really don't understand OnceUponATime's comment.
posted by constantinescharity at 8:17 AM on March 7, 2017

Even noblesse with the oblige is still a nasty, extremely unequal system of autocracy that shouldn't be taken seriously. It's the "kindler, gentler" proto-fascism that so-called moderate conservatives love to push, but then pout when people rightfully get all LOLFEUDALISM and point out that it's never worked anywhere close to their utopian vision..
posted by zombieflanders at 8:18 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Well, the first headline on fox news about this plan right now is very negative - "Obamacare Lite! Conservatives balk!". That, to me, says this is tanked.

I'm FASCINATED by the choice and distribution of headlines on the fox website. Quite often, front-page news at big newspapers doesn't even merit a mention. So the presence of this at all is actually pretty striking.
posted by R a c h e l at 8:25 AM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

Could someone please explain to me what the republican plan changes?

Try here. Obamacare was already a rube goldberg contraption that's not easy to explain, but basically boiled down to a 3 legged stool - 1) guarantee coverage for preexisting conditions 2) but to make that work, force everyone to buy insurance and 3) give poor people subsidies to help them buy insurance. This GOP plan actually acknowledges that basic framework, only they make it all work a lot shittier by repealing the taxes that help pay for it, and making the subsidies a lot smaller, too small to actually help anyone. While also loading up on ever more tax cuts, giveaways to the rich, and Republican wishlist items like defunding Planned Parenthood in the same bill for some reason.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:26 AM on March 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

Even noblesse with the oblige is still a nasty, extremely unequal system of autocracy that shouldn't be taken seriously.

Point taken.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:27 AM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Hi all, two things to share this morning:

1. Outside of the high-information bubble--like these threads--I think the worm is rapidly turning: my 75-year-old mom now watches MSNBC ("because they're the only ones who criticize Trump") and Stephen Colbert ("he's SO FUNNY and he just understands what's going on") exclusively, because that's the only way she feels sane. I expect she's typical for her age, a nice southern lady who reads the local paper every day, and though she hates Trump and knows he's a terrible president, any time I mentioned the Russia stuff, or his mental health/personality disorder, she just kind of tuned out, too much information I expect.

So last night she calls me at around 10:30 her time (late for her), and when I answer the phone she says, a propos of nothing, "is Donald Trump mentally ill?" It was the 'Obama is wiretapping me!' comments that finally made the scales fall from her eyes, and now she can't unsee it. Now that a more proper framing is in place for her--Trump isn't merely malicious or dumb, he's ill--she sees the pattern very clearly, and is reading about impeachment and the 25th amendment today.

2. I just have to reiterate something that I think is obvious, but seems to be causing consistent consternation in our mental-health-saving politics-chat threads, per this recent comment:

On Vox's podcast The Weeds they pointed out that Betsy DeVos was a terrible choice for Secretary of Education not just because of her ideas about Public Education but also because a large part of the job of being a Cabinet Secretary is speaking in front of various groups and articulating clearly (and passionately defending) the President's vision and DeVos fails utterly at that requirement. Well add Elaine Chao-- she is amazingly inept.

While I agree wholeheartedly, I think a frame shift needs to be made more clearly: Trump's cabinet picks, where they are not generals, were chosen specifically because they have an adversarial or fundamentally destructive stance toward the agencies that they lead. It's less that they are grossly unqualified or generally incompetent; it's that they are weapons specifically aimed at each of those departments, to disrupt, undermine, and perhaps dismantle them altogether. Now, I don't think that Trump is smart enough to have thought of this, or to have chosen these people, on his own. Whoever gave him this list, the civilian cabinet picks, is the person or people who are actually, literally trying to dismantle the federal government.

I think it's also instructive to note which set of federal departments received the destructive pick, and which did not. Those two sets tell you what kind of federal government that Trump (or Bannon or whoever is feeding him this) thinks should exist.
posted by LooseFilter at 8:33 AM on March 7, 2017 [65 favorites]

Obamacare was already a rube goldberg contraption that's not easy to explain, but basically boiled down to a 3 legged stool...

Yes, and if they had their druthers, the GOP would remove all the legs, leaving behind nothing but stool.
posted by tocts at 8:35 AM on March 7, 2017 [18 favorites]

I haven't kept up with the thread recently on the healthcare stuff but just watched to Republican press conference on the "American Healthcare Act"... didn't they just basically explain HIPAA protections and act as though it was all their own idea? I mean, the 63 days you have to scramble to arrange new health insurance, if you aren't in a 63-day coma because you've been hit by a bus—the 63 days is straight out of HIPAA, right? That's the "Portability", the "P" in "Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act", despite the handwaving about "existing federal law".

That's pretty ballsy, if they're basically presenting the Clinton healthcare plan from the 90s with a few extra steps and then they're going to act all surprised when a Clinton plan with a different label slapped on can't get through a 2017 Republican Congress.
posted by XMLicious at 8:35 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

The Parts of Obamacare Republicans Will Keep, Change or Discard (New York Times, handy table with ACA vs AHCA)
posted by filthy light thief at 8:39 AM on March 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

Could someone please explain to me what the republican plan changes? I'm American, but I've lived abroad since I was 8. I really don't understand OnceUponATime's comment.

If you click that Kevin Drum link, he gets into more about what the Republican plan actually changes. I was just trying to provide a one-line summary.

But if you aren't familiar with the US health care system, maybe you don't realize that health insurance premiums paid by your insurer are not usually taxed. So if I'm your employer and I buy you a $5,000 per year health insurance plan, then $5,000 worth of health care benefits go directly to you. But if I try to give you $5,000 so that you can go buy your OWN plan, there are payroll taxes and income taxes on that money. $5,000 out of my pocket turns into only $4,000 worth of health care benefits to you by the time all the payroll and income taxes are taken into account. So if you're someone who wants to but health insurance anyway, you're better off taking a job from an employer who will buy health insurance directly. You get a nicer policy that way for the same out-of-pocket cost from your employer. This is why most people get their health insurance through their employer. It's not like a law of nature. It's an artificial situation created by tax incentives.

Now some people don't get their health insurance through their employers (like maybe they're self-employed!) and so they have to buy it on the "individual market." This is what most people are talking about with the Republican plan. It will remove the incentives of people who don't get health insurance through their employer to buy it for themselves on the individual market, if they're healthy. This will make it very hard for insurance companies to make a profit without raising premiums. So lots of people are talking about how premiums for people who buy insurance on the individual market will go way up if Republicans do this.

But Kevin Drum is pointing out that it's more dangerous than that. If you screw up the tax incentives that lead most employers to offer health insurance, a lot of people who currently get insurance through work, won't anymore. So it could affect a lot more people than you might at first realize!
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:40 AM on March 7, 2017 [42 favorites]

soundguy99: it kinda remains to be seen how much actual effect a lot of this horrible shit will have in the real world.

Leashes Come Off Wall Street, Gun Sellers, Polluters and More (New York Times, March 5, 2017, linked a few times above)

Giants in telecommunications, like Verizon and AT&T, will not have to take “reasonable measures” to ensure that their customers’ Social Security numbers, web browsing history and other personal information are not stolen or accidentally released.

Wall Street banks like Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan Chase will not be punished, at least for now, for not collecting extra money from customers to cover potential losses from certain kinds of high-risk trades that helped unleash the 2008 financial crisis.

And Social Security Administration data will no longer be used to try to block individuals with disabling mental health issues from buying handguns, nor will hunters be banned from using lead-based bullets, which can accidentally poison wildlife, on 150 million acres of federal lands.

These are just a few of the more than 90 regulations that federal agencies and the Republican-controlled Congress have delayed, suspended or reversed in the month and a half since President Trump took office, according to a tally by The New York Times.

Oh, I'd say plenty of actual effects.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:45 AM on March 7, 2017 [31 favorites]

Could someone please explain to me what the republican plan changes? I'm American, but I've lived abroad since I was 8. I really don't understand OnceUponATime's comment.

Are you referring to this one?

The whole reason employer-provided health insurance exists is because wages are taxed more than health care benefits, so health care is less expensive way for employers to compensate people than wages. Screw that up either by taxing health benefits, or by NOT taxing the wages, and all the sudden we'll ALL be on the individual market.

Basically: Employees pay an income tax based on the wages they receive from their employer. This is fairly straightforward.

But employers also pay a tax on all the wages they pay out. However, things like employer-provided health care are classified as benefits, not as wages. Benefits are still taxed, but at lower rates.

The end result is that it's cheaper for an employer to buy each of their employees a $10k/year healthcare plan than to pay each of their employees an additional $10k/year in wages. But also note that a group health care plan that covers everyone working for a single employers is always going to be cheaper than individual health care plans for the same number of people, so there's a societal interest in getting as many people as possible onto group plans rather individual plans. The difference in cost will go to buying other, non-health insurance stuff that will accelerate the economy.

Additionally, one of the things that the ACA did was essentially create a new class of group plan that anybody can buy into, via the state exchanges.. Only, because the GOP did their best to poison the ACA once it became clear that it was going to pass, they forced through a provision that made the state exchanges optional. So many states don't have an exchange, especially the poorest states (which tend to have GOP governors and legislators). That's kind of an aside to your question, but it's important context for the discussion overall.

I haven't dug into the details of Ryancare or the ACA enough to know the details of how it affects the balance of tax costs on wages versus benefits, but I'm inferring from OnceUponATime's comment that the ACA paid for itself partially through increased payroll taxes and Ryancare eliminates those increases.

So that shifts around the incentives for employers away from providing group health care plans to their employees (which are cheaper than each of those employees buying individual plans, remember) and toward paying higher wages instead (which sounds nice on paper, but again: the added cost of buying an individual plan will mean all of those employees will either do without health insurance or end up with less discretionary income than they used to have because they're paying more for their health care).

(And then, on preview, OnceUponATime explained it all more succinctly and correctly, but I'll be damned if I let all that typing go to waste.)
posted by tobascodagama at 8:45 AM on March 7, 2017 [16 favorites]

Yes, and if they had their druthers, the GOP would remove all the legs, leaving behind nothing but stool.

No, they'd remove the stool, too.
posted by Tabitha Someday at 8:45 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

I think that was a poop joke and that the GOP doesn't want to pay for disimpaction
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:47 AM on March 7, 2017 [16 favorites]

Getting this shitpile up to where they can't even get cloture makes it someone else's fault.
Give it cloture. Let it get shot down in flames.

Playing chicken when you're not completely certain the other person will veer off is stupid and reckless. Playing chicken with the lives of others, particularly the most needy, is just differently evil than trying to take away any help they might get.

The smarter republicans know that actually passing this shit and yanking care away from a lot of their constituents could be career suicide (why this House bill doesn't fuck anyone outright before 2018 or close people off from medicare till 2020; you think that year choice is a coincidence?), but making a visible choice not to follow through on their stupid promises would be career suicide sooner. It would make them the cornered animal. At that point, based on the last twenty years, they'd be likely to pull the trigger and then start looking for ways to dodge the bullet in a few years.

tl;dr - "give them the rope to hang themselves" is a bad idea when they're unable to back down and willing to take the rest of us with them.
posted by phearlez at 8:49 AM on March 7, 2017 [18 favorites]

TPM: People Walk Out As Ala. Official Pushes Voter ID At Selma Anniversary [Church] Service
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:49 AM on March 7, 2017 [19 favorites]

How many iphones does a disimpaction cost
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:49 AM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

Getting this shitpile up to where they can't even get cloture makes it someone else's fault.

Republicans are using the reconciliation procedure which means the bill can't be filibustered, so cloture isn't an issue. All they need is 50 votes in the Senate plus Mike Pence.
posted by JackFlash at 8:55 AM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

What degeneracy is the cause of every Republican in the country not being in jail on millions of counts of conspiracy to commit murder?
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:55 AM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

I went to Target for the first time in several months today and was struck by the irony on display there. An employee was assembling a giant new endcap--posters, poster paint, sharpies, letter templates, letter stickers, poster boards, sticks, glue. A nice, neat, protest endcap for all your rally and marching requirements. And directly opposite, the entire area that had previously been checkout lanes staffed by employees had been swapped for self-checkouts. This tableau fed my cynicism and despair quite handily as I rejected one of my heart medications at the pharmacy because it's too expensive. Just another day in America, and the Republican Congress Critters are so far removed from it that it's hopeless to expect them to be humane at all.
posted by xyzzy at 8:56 AM on March 7, 2017 [48 favorites]

Loosefilter -- thanx for posting that. The anecdote about your mom is the thing keeping me sane this afternoon!

In regard to your other point -- this theory has been bouncing around for a while -- that these people are meant to destroy the institutions. What's so god-awful beyond what they are actually doing is that they aren't even trying to hide their political motivations. That clip I posted with Chao is flabbergasting as she literally catches herself revealing the master plan and then tries to back track on it. These people are not even savvy enough to not get caught in their evil lies.
posted by archimago at 8:58 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Couple comments deleted. This is your regularly scheduled "please don't just fill up the thread with tweets or tiny updates" request, thank you.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:01 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

But also note that a group health care plan that covers everyone working for a single employers is always going to be cheaper than individual health care plans for the same number of people, so there's a societal interest in getting as many people as possible onto group plans rather individual plans. The difference in cost will go to buying other, non-health insurance stuff that will accelerate the economy.

Man, that's insane. I had no idea American healthcare worked like that. So even if the ideal takes place, and lots of folks buy into these group plans, the population will still be fractured across many plans. So the max efficiency is still quite low, no? I'm starting to understand why my partner's father said that, even as a market-fanatic conservative, he thinks single-payer is the only system that makes sense.
posted by constantinescharity at 9:10 AM on March 7, 2017 [15 favorites]

Could someone please explain to me what the republican plan changes?

Actually, it would be super helpful if there was a primer explaining the whole thing soup to nuts, including the actuarial and procedural issues raised here like reconciliation and the CBO scoring. I'm not fully understanding the health care discussion here, but too overwhelmed by all the news lately to catch up, and I imagine I'm not the only one.
posted by Coventry at 9:12 AM on March 7, 2017

I am only able to get this thread to fully load maybe 1/10 times, so can't comment regularly and im following alongside in Recent Activity, but: thanks for all the explainers.

This is overload. The CBP/ICE terror squads, the Russian treason scandal (let's start calling it that, yes? For branding purposes. Hang them with it), and now Ryancare (YES LETS CALL IT THAT, watch your dreams go up in smoke, Grannystarver)...

but this Gish Gallup stuff only works when our attention is divided. It's not anymore. We all have eyes on you, assholes.

Maybe we can push him into a full breakdown.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:15 AM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

Statement from Utah's Senator Mike Lee on the new healthcare bill (he doesn't like it)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:18 AM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Can someone recommend a good basic primer on how the ACA and health care in general works in the US? Some of us non-Americans find the whole debate pretty incomprehensible as we don't understand how it all works.

OK, sure. So there are a number of overlapping systems that pay for health care in the US.

(1) First off, you have employer-based insurance, or group coverage. These plans cover a good chunk of people, mainly middle-class workers and their families. Employees get to choose from a couple different options selected by their employer, often a cheaper HMO (health maintenance organization) option (which is more restrictive in terms of which providers they can see) and more expensive PPO (preferred-provider option) plans which give more freedom to go outside the provider network, but cost more each month. Employers tend to subsidize these plans pretty heavily, so often the plans are worth a lot more than employees realize since their employer is paying the lion's share of the monthly premium cost. This system has been in place more or less since World War II, but it didn't cover people who weren't working and especially people who were retired (unless their employer offered retiree coverage as well), so...

(2) In the 60s, the Medicare and Medicaid programs were enacted into law. Medicare provided hospital & medical services to most people over the age of 65. It originally had two parts: Part A - hospital insurance, which is paid for from payroll taxes and is typically provided without any monthly premium) and Part B, which does cost a bit each month (the current premium is $134/mo.). Later, Part C was added - these are private insurance plans which people can opt into and which may provide some extra benefits. And Part D was added by George W. Bush in the 2000s, it covers medications. Medicaid was intended for low-income disabled folks, and was eventually expanded to cover low-income children. Medicare covers people who are permanently disabled (after a 2-year waiting period).

(3) There are also other government-funded programs specifically for active-duty troops and their families, and some veterans and their families. I don't know much about those systems since the Veterans Administration is kind of a separate thing, it's fully run by the government (more like the British NHS).

(4) So now we come to the ACA / Obamacare. Basically, this set of systems tries to fill some of the gaps in the preexisting health care system, especially for people who are adults aged 18-65 (so not eligible for Medicaid as kids or for Medicare as senior citizens) and who don't have access to affordable insurance through work. You're looking primarily at working-class folks who are unemployed, self-employed, working a few different part-time jobs (which typically don't offer health benefits) or working a low-wage full-time job that doesn't offer benefits. This is the target group for the ACA, and the ACA expands coverage to them in a few ways:

(a) Medicaid, which historically was a pretty difficult program to be eligible for, was hugely expanded. Eligibility for the ACA expansion group in Medicaid is now primarily based on one's monthly income, so most people below a certain percentage of the poverty line can qualify for Medicaid, which is free or basically free and has very small copayments and other costs for accessing care.

(b) For people whose income is over the Medicaid threshold, the ACA set up state exchanges. These are basically a central site where insurance companies could offer plans, and consumers could qualify for income-based government subsidies to purchase those plans. The ACA set stricter rules about what services had to be covered and established the principle that insurers couldn't engage in practices like charging people more based on their medical history, or denying coverage altogether for people who were riskier prospects because of preexisting conditions. However, these plans tend not to be as generous as employer coverage; they often have higher deductibles and other costs, which can be barriers to care. A lot of this could be fixed by offering more generous subsidies or raising various thresholds for help, but of course that costs money and this Congress doesn't want to pay.

(c) The ACA also required that most employer plans cover employees' dependents up to 26 years old, which made a big difference for young adults.

That's not all that the ACA does by any means, but those are some of the big-ticket items.

Now, speaking to costs: most of these insurance systems have premiums (the monthly cost of the plan), deductibles (a certain amount that enrollees have to pay before many of the more expensive services are covered) and copays, or fixed costs for services (like, say a $30 copay for a doctor's visit, or a $500 copay for an emergency room visit). These costs are also often not very transparent, although the ACA has made things somewhat better. Often, patients will receive a number of bills from different providers (say, one bill from a hospital for the stay, another set of bills from various doctors and specialists who saw them, bills from the outside lab that did blood work, etc.). So a huge part of the problem is just that people have to spend a lot of time and energy (emotional labor, you could even say) wrangling with bills, dealing with insurance denials or prior authorization requests, etc. at the very time when they should be able to focus on regaining their health.

So yeah, in conclusion, the American health care system is a big mess of patches, hole-plugging and workarounds, and the cruft and inefficiencies in the system(s) are a big part of the reason why Americans spend so much more on health care and get so much less in return than other industrialized countries do. Everyone knows this but between the free-market, anti-government ideology that dominates Washington, the powerful insurance and medical lobbies; and just general inertia -- it's kind of hard to see how we move to a more rational system.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:19 AM on March 7, 2017 [80 favorites]

There's been a sixth wave of bomb threats against Jewish organizations today. At least 9 JCCs in the US and Canada, plus 4 ADL offices. More here. We're up to 122 incidents since January.
posted by Mchelly at 9:20 AM on March 7, 2017 [34 favorites]

Can someone recommend a good basic primer on how the ACA and health care in general works in the US? Some of us non-Americans find the whole debate pretty incomprehensible as we don't understand how it all works.

I think most Americans also find it incomprehensible, which is how we ended up in this mess in the first place. Before the ACA insurance basically worked one of three ways (when it worked at all): you got it through your job, you had Medicare and/or Medicaid, or you paid through the nose for an individual plan. Getting it through your job really only works for the middle class and above (the "working poor" often have part time jobs without benefits); Medicare and Medicaid are limited and don't really provide universal care for the general population (plus they're always under attack from conservatives who want to reduce "entitlement spending" as well as from the health care lobby that doesn't like having the government negotiate prices); private insurance is astonishingly expensive and out of reach for the working poor. It's possible to make use of tax deductions for health care expenses, but the ability to do that depends on other factors and it only reduces what you owe on your taxes, and you have to have had the money to spend it on health care in the first place. Confused yet?

It gets worse. Private insurance carriers could refuse to offer you a plan if you had a pre-existing condition (oh, and things like being overweight were pre-existing conditions) and there were lifetime limits on how much an insurer could be required to spend on you. So basically in order to have some shot at a long life you needed to get a full time job with benefits before you came down with anything, and then if you did come down with something you needed to keep continuous coverage (possibly by holding onto that job no matter how terrible it is) so you never had to apply from scratch and have them find a reason not to insure you. Otherwise you could be refused coverage, or hit a coverage limit, and be financially responsible for ruinous health care expenses, if not just dead at an earlier age than necessary because you couldn't afford care.

The big changes with the ACA included a new legal requirement that insurers could not deny you care because of pre-existing conditions, the removal of lifetime coverage limits, the state-level option of a Medicare expansion (which gets complicated), the creation of state-level "exchanges" where insurers offer eligible plans and individuals sign up for them (again, state-level, so complicated), no-cost treatment for a whole bunch of preventive care (including women's health care and contraception), and a rule that extended the age parents could keep their kids on their own plans. To make this palatable to insurers who'd have to cover so many more sick people, the ACA added a so-called "individual mandate" that required everybody to have some sort of eligible health care plan (increasing the size of the risk pool and lowering the average cost per insured person). If you refuse to get a plan (and you make enough money to pay for one once subsidies are taken into account), there's a penalty collected with your taxes. Basically for it to work everybody has to be in the pool, so that's now a law (get in the pool or pay a penalty).

The state-level choices are really what caused the most problems for the actual implementation of the ACA nationwide. It was seen as a big idealogical purity choice and most states with Republican governors refused to opt in to Medicare expansion, leaving people in those states without assistance with health care costs. They also didn't set up their own exchanges, and didn't work with insurance carriers to make sure those exchanges would be healthy. I live in the District of Columbia, where our exchange works really well and where there are enough young and healthy people that the plans are cost effective. My mom lives in Oklahoma, which didn't opt in to Medicare expansion, which refused to set up its own exchange, and where people were so politically opposed to the individual mandate that the costs in the risk pool are way out of whack. So in Oklahoma there were two (2) insurers in the exchange last year, and one of them announced it was pulling out before the year was even half over. The other requested a 70% rate hike for 2017 because the risk pool in Oklahoma is that broken. When my mom was still forwarding me stupid emails about how broken Obamacare was I asked her to find out why the risk pool there was so messed up, but that would have questioned her worldview so she ignored it (my guess: all the young healthy people who might have filled out the risk pool have left for states with more job opportunities).

As for the mess we're all in now, aside from reflexive Obama hate, Republicans have hated a few specific things about the ACA: the individual mandate (both a loss of individual freedom and a new tax); the Medicare expansion (Republicans hate entitlements); the funding for women's health care and contraception (cf that asinine bill from some Oklahoma legislator that required women to get permission for abortions from the men who impregnated them, because women are just "hosts"), and the limit on corporate profits (insurers are required to spend 80% of income from premiums on care, and refund the balance at the end of the year if they don't hit that target). So the GOP's DontCare plan eliminates the mandate, tries to weasel word its way around limiting Medicare without explicitly cutting it, tries again to get rid of Planned Parenthood (which provides a lot of women's health care in addition to, yes, abortions), gets rid of the 80/20 balance, and also gives a tax breaks to health care companies that pay high CEO salaries, because fuck everybody else. Also instead of the tax penalty on the mandate it specifies a 30% surcharge on plans for people who sign up late, which is (A) a number they appear to have pulled out of a hat, not supported on any actuarial basis, and (2) a way of privatizing profit at public expense. So, yay. Also something about lotteries for some reason.
posted by fedward at 9:20 AM on March 7, 2017 [34 favorites]

> Actually, it would be super helpful if there was a primer explaining the whole thing soup to nuts, including the actuarial and procedural issues raised here like reconciliation and the CBO scoring

David Anderson (who used to go by the pen name Richard Mayhew) over at Balloon Juice is a good guy to read. Here's his initial take, and here's a link he posted yesterday to a Kaiser analysis of which areas will do better and worse under each plan.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:21 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Maybe a separate thread on the new healthcare plan as well as a new thread for spicey time?
posted by OHenryPacey at 9:25 AM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

Man, that's insane. I had no idea American healthcare worked like that.

Healthcare is the number one most shitty thing about having moved here. That's even with the ACA having been in place for most of that time. And that's without any kind of serious long term condition, though I will say if you have kids the stress of maintaining healthcare goes up by an order of magnitude.
posted by Artw at 9:28 AM on March 7, 2017 [26 favorites]

The state department's briefing at 2pm will be given by Mark Toner (Obama holdover)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:30 AM on March 7, 2017

Woah. Heritage Action came out against the Healthcare bill for being too much like Obamacare. Is there actually anyone besides Ryan and Trump who are supporting this thing? And Trump just decided to attach his support to this stinker in a tweet this morning.
posted by zachlipton at 9:31 AM on March 7, 2017 [24 favorites]

Woah. Heritage Action came out against the Healthcare bill for being too much like Obamacare.

Well that's funny given that the Heritage Foundation's 1993 plan is basically the grandparent of the ACA.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:36 AM on March 7, 2017 [23 favorites]

There's been a sixth wave of bomb threats against Jewish organizations today. At least 9 JCCs in the US and Canada, plus 4 ADL offices. More here. We're up to 122 incidents since January.

At least there's some good news (for a value of good that leaves out "how the fuck did this have to be a thing in 2017?"): All 100 U.S. Senators sign a letter to DHS, DOJ and FBI urging the Trump administration to take action on JCC bomb threats
posted by zombieflanders at 9:38 AM on March 7, 2017 [56 favorites]

Part of me says "Yay! Even the hardcore conservacons don't like the bill! It's totally going nowhere!"

And then part of me says "Yeah, the hard-core conservacons are providing cover by offering counterbalance to liberal criticism, that will ultimately allow an Overton shift, to permit a majority in Congress to say 'See: it is a compromise because extremists on both sides dislike it. So it must be centrist, and so we can vote for it.' "

In short: I hate (most) politicians.
posted by darkstar at 9:40 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

WaPo: WikiLeaks says it has obtained trove of CIA hacking tools

The anti-secrecy organization WikiLeaks said Tuesday that it has obtained a vast portion of the CIA’s computer hacking arsenal, and began posting the files online in a breach that may expose some of the U.S. intelligence community’s most closely guarded cyber weapons.

[...]

"At first glance,” the data release “is probably legitimate or contains a lot of legitimate stuff, which means somebody managed to extract a lot of data from a classified CIA system and is willing to let the world know that,” said Nicholas Weaver, a computer security researcher at the University of California at Berkeley.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:40 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Heritage Action came out against the Healthcare bill for being too much like Obamacare.

Club for Growth, too (and they call it "RyanCare"), but because it doesn't take out the interstate walls. Does anyone know what "the Club for Growth will key vote against it" means?
posted by Etrigan at 9:42 AM on March 7, 2017

Brooklyn Jewish center receives anti-Semitic calls threatening to spray 'pig's blood' on synagogue
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:44 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Now that we have a couple of fantastic explanations of the jury-rigged American healthcare system in the thread, people really need to click on the Kevin Drum link posted a couple of times upthread. Not only will the Republican proposal destroy the current individual market, it has the potential to unravel the employer-based health insurance system that the majority of middle/upper-middle class Americans are on.

And the best part is that it does this unintentionally, in its attempt to screw over the poor. What a perfect metaphor for modern Republican governance.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:44 AM on March 7, 2017 [13 favorites]

Does anyone know what "the Club for Growth will key vote against it" means?

"Key vote" is basically the Club for Growth's term for "the votes on which we base our scorecards." It's an explicit statement to members of Congress that they should vote yes/no on a given issue in order to stay in the Club's good graces.
posted by jedicus at 9:45 AM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

I'm looking forward to seeing Trump's response to Wikileaks' CIA dump. Maybe not "I love Wikileaks".
posted by MattWPBS at 9:45 AM on March 7, 2017

And then part of me says "Yeah, the hard-core conservacons are providing cover by offering counterbalance to liberal criticism, that will ultimately allow an Overton shift, to permit a majority in Congress to say 'See: it is a compromise because extremists on both sides dislike it. So it must be centrist, and so we can vote for it.' "

I think they're mostly shooting themselves in the foot but you never know -- the Democrats just need to keep their mouths shut at this point and watch the Republicans eat each other, but as we are all aware they are pretty good at doing precisely the wrong thing.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:46 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

> Democrats just need to keep their mouths shut at this point and watch the Republicans eat each other, but as we are all aware they are pretty good at doing precisely the wrong thing.

I think, for once, the Democratic Senate has at least got the message. I haven't seen a single chirp of "well maybe it's not all bad" - not yet, at least. The current draft bill is a total shitshow. No redeeming features at all, not a hint of cover for a hypothetical Democrat who wants to defect. not even Joe Manchin.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:50 AM on March 7, 2017 [29 favorites]

From, again, way up thread, but:

the NHS and the rail system, etc, were so utterly admirable given the conditions of Anglosphere political systems and the UK in particular! They worked! They were so good compared to anything we have here in America!

Emphasis on were. While not sabotaged as comprehensively as British Rail, the NHS is currently in the process of being deliberately sabotaged in preparation for its disassembly and privatization. It is enraging.

Even over the three years we've lived here, the decline in level and quality of service has been noticeable — and that I can tell, it is almost never the fault of the front-line service providers, but all but invariably that of the systems and processes they're embedded in. We have fallen through the cracks, and so have people we know, and what is most galling about all of this is that it's being done with malice and intent.

And meanwhile, today, for the second time this week, I saw an ambulance whip by running prominent Arriva branding. (To the point made above, Arriva is owned by DB, the German national railways. They are also a London bus operator; I swallow bile every time I see their logo, or that of the other operator owner by the *Dutch* national railways, superimposed over the TfL livery. Privatization in the UK is a special kind of maximally hypocritical fuckery. Thanks Mrs Thatcher!)
posted by adamgreenfield at 9:50 AM on March 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

There's been a sixth wave of bomb threats against Jewish organizations today. At least 9 JCCs in the US and Canada, plus 4 ADL offices. More here. We're up to 122 incidents since January.

Currently 129 bomb threats called in to 98 Jewish institutions. 13 bomb threats today. ProPublica is mapping them. One of those institutions was a synagogue: Temple Beth Sholom of Framingham, Massachusetts.

The current list:

Anti-Defamation League Offices (Washington, DC; Boston; Atlanta and NYC)

Levite JCC (Birmingham, AL)
Posnack Jewish Day School (Davie, FL)
Chicago Jewish Day School (Chicago, IL)
Temple Beth Sholom (Framingham, MA)
JCC of Greater Washington (Rockville, MD)
Louis S. Wolk JCC (Rochester, NY)
JCC of Syracuse (Syracuse, NY)
Mittleman JCC (Portland, OR)
Harry and Rose Samson Family JCC (Whitefish Bay, WI)

At least there's some good news (for a value of good that leaves out "how the fuck did this have to be a thing in 2017?"): All 100 U.S. Senators sign a letter to DHS, DOJ and FBI urging the Trump administration to take action on JCC bomb threats

This is not directed at you specifically zombieflanders, just a comment on the situation: It's been over two months and there have been over 125 bomb threats and three cemeteries vandalized, with numbers climbing as I write this. Most of those institutions are Jewish Community Centers, which house daycare and aftercare programs and/or schools, so the targets of these threats are Jewish children. The fact that all 100 Senators had to publicly beg the Trump administration to do something is disgusting.
posted by zarq at 9:53 AM on March 7, 2017 [90 favorites]

Schaaf, who is a physician, has squashed legislation in the past six sessions to establish a prescription drug monitoring program, or PDMP.

This has popped up before in threads, but the subcategory of "elected Republican and physician" is frequently terrifying: Coburn, Price, both Ron and Rand Paul. I'm sure I encountered conservative doctors in the UK, but they were old Tory specialists who had their NHS hours, their private hours, and their golf hours. American medical schools seem to qualify a lot of people who like being doctors but hate sick people getting medical care.
posted by holgate at 10:00 AM on March 7, 2017 [15 favorites]

Someone please post a video of someone on the WH tour saying "Look it's the President!" and pointing to the picture, not Dampnut. (surely this must have happened, please...)
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:01 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

OHenryPacey, it was a school group. The kids were maybe 1st-3rd grade.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:03 AM on March 7, 2017

So, even more likely???
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:04 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm looking forward to seeing Trump's response to Wikileaks' CIA dump. Maybe not "I love Wikileaks".

Why not? He's at war with the CIA and hates all the states that phone tech comes from, this is great work from his allies Wikileaks and Russia.
posted by Artw at 10:08 AM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

WaPo: Trump’s split screen: A two-hour virtual conversation between the president and ‘Fox and Friends’ : “Fox and Friends” seems to be Trump's new favorite show, and the hosts are well aware of it. This is a place where White House aides can expect space to fully explain themselves without a flurry of follow-up questions and where the president can hear a defense of his policies and statements. In late January, the anchors jokingly told the president to flash the lights in the White House if he was watching and then showed footage of a light turning on and off on the upper floor — although they quickly explained that this was a “video effect” and that the president hadn't actually responded.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:11 AM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

The fact that all 100 Senators had to publicly beg the Trump administration to do something is disgusting.

My father, a concentration camp survivor, died 30 years ago. My mother, who was hidden by nuns in a Belgian convent during the war, has dementia and isn't really aware of current events. They loved this country so much that even though they spoke six languages between them we only spoke English because we were Americans, dammit!

Every single day I am thankful that they are not here physically or mentally to see what is happening in this country or to experience the Trump presidency. And that is fucked up.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:11 AM on March 7, 2017 [86 favorites]

The idiocy and ignorance of the Republican base in three a̶c̶t̶s̶ tweets:

@charlescwcooke
I’ve yet to read a single positive analysis of the House’s Obamacare bill.

@MAcatholicmom
@charlescwcooke try going 2 a conservative source? Open up your reading habits 2 include those w/ whom u would naturally dismiss

@charlescwcooke
I’m the editor of National Review Online.
posted by chris24 at 10:15 AM on March 7, 2017 [237 favorites]

Actually, it would be super helpful if there was a primer explaining the whole thing soup to nuts, including the actuarial and procedural issues raised here like reconciliation and the CBO scoring.

Actuarial: mostly from the republicans what we're seeing is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Realistically the fact all the marketplaces are at the state level instead of the national level means that costs and benefits are somewhat localized, so the less healthy a state's population is on average, the higher the individual costs are in that state. Some states have really unhealthy risk pools and only one provider in the marketplace, and there exist a few counties in those states where it is in fact impossible to get an individual plan. Also one of the subtle reasons Republicans hate Medicare is that it's one big federal agency that is able to negotiate prices for prescription drugs and set prices it will pay for surgical procedures, which cuts into corporate profits and angers the lobbyists and corporations who lean on the GOP to get what they want. Single Payer health care might not ever pass, because it means reduced profits, and in the ideal capitalist world, without profits there's no research, and without research there are no new drugs, and without new drugs people die. (And also corporations don't make astronomical profits on those new drugs, but ssssh).

Procedural: mostly the republican procedure up until now has been to try to undermine the ACA and then point out how broken it is (without taking responsibility for undermining it).

But taking your specific questions in reverse order, the CBO is the Congressional Budget Office, which is supposed to be non-political (it is, of course, always under political pressure) and which attempts to figure out what the cost to the federal government would be from any new law. Previous republican plans to replace the ACA have not been scored well. Paul Ryan is trying to push the new plan to a vote on the floor of the House before the CBO has a chance to say how bad it is, but it's pretty similar to previous plans, so it's safe to assume it's somewhere between pretty bad and extremely bad.

Reconciliation is a bit of legal trickery. To pass an all new law, Congress needs a majority of both the House and Senate to vote for it. The Senate has a bunch of ways to keep a law from hitting the floor and a bunch of other ways to kill it off on the floor without a vote, so usually the majority party won't even try to bring it to the floor unless they have a supermajority, not just 51 but 60 votes (60 being the number where procedural overrides negate most of the ways the minority might kill a bill). So what Senate republicans have done now (since they have a simple majority, not a supermajority) is say they'll use budget reconciliation to change the existing law. This is basically saying "we're no longer going to pay for X so it's not really the law anymore." Reconciliation bills pass on a simple majority.

So, procedurally, what the GOP would like to have happen is that the House passes a budget that undoes the ACA without itself being a new law (which is questionable, but there's not really anybody with the power to say no, so mob rule wins). Then the Senate would pass it as a budget reconciliation, and the President would sign the reconciled budget. The whole thing about "these four Senators signed this letter opposing it" and "these three don't think it goes far enough" means that even the simple majority of votes required to pass a reconciliation might not be there, so the bill might not ever make it to the floor of the Senate.
posted by fedward at 10:17 AM on March 7, 2017 [15 favorites]

My parents are/were also proud and patriotic immigrants. I was at my mother's the other day and she WAS SO ANGRY. She is angry her final years are being wasted on this fool. She can't stop reading about him and following news, but it all disgusts her as well. She said "Every day brings a new calamity!"

She is also extremely mad that at 87 she probably won't live long enough for the tell all books on the back end. She wants to see his downfall and then everything will come out in the open, but she is afraid that she can't possibly live that long or at the very least with all her faculties.
posted by readery at 10:19 AM on March 7, 2017 [50 favorites]

So is removing the ACA with no replacement still on the table?
posted by Artw at 10:19 AM on March 7, 2017

If Jason Chaffetz wants to compare health care to iPhones, let’s do it the right way

Under the standard individual plan referenced above, that works out to about $18,000 in premiums and out-of-pocket expenses over two years. Or, for that span, the price of 23 iPhones.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:21 AM on March 7, 2017 [33 favorites]

So is removing the ACA with no replacement still on the table?

I think that would be a 'surely this' moment even for the deplorables, but hey it's 2017, who knows.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:22 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Readery, I'm not a religious man, but I will add your mom to RBG on my 'Dear God, please let them live four more years' prayer list.
posted by chris24 at 10:22 AM on March 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

It's an artificial situation created by tax incentives.

Employer-provided insurance was not created by tax incentives. It was created during WW2, when there were wage freezes imposed. Businesses sought, and received, permission to offer health benefits as a way to attract good employees, since they could not raise wages.
posted by thelonius at 10:23 AM on March 7, 2017 [29 favorites]

Employer-provided insurance was not created by tax incentives. It was created during WW2, when there were wage freezes imposed. Businesses sought, and received, permission to offer health benefits as a way to attract good employees, since they could not raise wages.

True; but the system is sustained by tax incentives.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:26 AM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

She is also extremely mad that at 87 she probably won't live long enough for the tell all books on the back end. She wants to see his downfall and then everything will come out in the open, but she is afraid that she can't possibly live that long or at the very least with all her faculties.

a significant percentage of the world's centenarians are still alive out of spite so your mom actually has a pretty good chance
posted by murphy slaw at 10:30 AM on March 7, 2017 [24 favorites]

Thanks, fedward. That was very helpful.
posted by Coventry at 10:31 AM on March 7, 2017

Kaiser Permenante == Kaiser Steel == Liberty Ships
posted by notyou at 10:32 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Living proof, murphy slaw: my grandma's 95, is sustained solely by TrumpSpite, and bought her first subscription to Mother Jones just this year.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:32 AM on March 7, 2017 [59 favorites]

Jason Chaffetz is getting one of my angry red postcards for the first time today. I'm not his constituent, but the way committees work, there are several areas in which I have no representation, so he (well, his staff) can fucking deal with my impotent rage in postcard form.

But more realistically, do we know who exactly are the geniuses behind this Ryancare debacle, other than Paul "Intellectual Heart of the Party" Ryan? Who else can I send howlers (that will be ignored) to?
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:32 AM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

Friends, he's back from over a week of hiding. Yesterday you heard his voice; today you see his face. It's Spicey Time (brought to you by the Easter Bunny).

(We're within the two minute warning)
posted by zachlipton at 10:33 AM on March 7, 2017

Spicer's briefing. He appears to have the new health care bill set up next to the Affordable Care Act bill on a table to show you how short the new one is.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:34 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Donald Trump campaign spoke with Russian Ambassador about closer cooperation five months before election ~ Former adviser JD Gordon goes on record for first time about controversial conversation with Sergey Kislyak

-- A former adviser to Donald Trump has told The Independent he met with the Russian Ambassador five months before the election to discuss how Moscow and Washington could work together to tackle Islamist extremism if the New York tycoon became President.

-- Two days after the conversation, and one day after the completion of the convention in Cleveland, Wikileaks released thousands of hacked emails from the Democratic National Committee (DNC).

-- James Collins, a former US Ambassador to Moscow, said he saw nothing unusual about a Russian envoy wishing to speak to both of the parties in an US election. He said it would have deeply worrying, however, if deals were being agreed with one side ahead of the election.
posted by futz at 10:35 AM on March 7, 2017 [25 favorites]

SHORT IS NOT BETTER, ASSHOLE.
posted by lydhre at 10:35 AM on March 7, 2017 [29 favorites]

Trumpcare Is the Culmination of All the GOP’s Health-Care Lies

Eventually they had told the lie so long it became impossible for them to abandon it. And so Republicans have found themselves frantically scrawling out a hopelessly inadequate solution in order to meet a self-imposed deadline driven by their overarching desire to cut taxes for the rich. “Expanding subsidies for high earners, and cutting health coverage off from the working poor: it sounds like a left-wing caricature of mustache-twirling, top-hatted Republican fat cats,” writes the Republican health-care adviser Avik Roy. The caricature is true.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:36 AM on March 7, 2017 [30 favorites]

He appears to have the new health care bill set up next to the Affordable Care Act bill on a table to show you how short the new one is.

Yeah, maybe we've all been a bit hasty about this RyanCare bill. Look how sleek and efficient it is!
posted by sporkwort at 10:36 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

How come we don't all get car and homeowner's insurance through our employers, too? Then we could lose those as well if we get laid off.

The system has never made much sense to me.
posted by thelonius at 10:37 AM on March 7, 2017 [32 favorites]

I can't believe this is still the level we're working on (SHORTER BILL BETTER BILL NYAH NYAH NYAH) but it's 2017 and I guess this is just how shit works.

Please nobody tell them the shortest bill would just be like one sentence repealing the ACA with nothing else to add.
posted by tocts at 10:37 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

SHORT IS NOT BETTER, ASSHOLE.

Ah, but think of how much better their Bibles got when they cut out all that flabby "Love thy neighbor" stuff and stuck to the important parts about stoning homosexuals.
posted by Etrigan at 10:38 AM on March 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

For the first time in my life, I have heard my mother say, "I HATE" in reference to a human being. Top of my gargantuan list of Deplorable Things about Trump is that he frightens my mama and has broken a little bit of a kind and generous soul. This entire debacle has been hell on mamas.
posted by thebrokedown at 10:38 AM on March 7, 2017 [37 favorites]

It's easy, actually: All those missing pages represent people who won't get covered anymore.
posted by Mchelly at 10:38 AM on March 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

IT'S SPICEY TIME.
posted by Justinian at 10:38 AM on March 7, 2017

SHORT IS NOT BETTER, ASSHOLE.

It could be though! Sec 226 of the Social Security Act is amended to read: "Every individual shall be entitled to hospital insurance benefits under part A".

Shortest healthcare reform bill ever!
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:39 AM on March 7, 2017 [27 favorites]

Let's just trim the fat from the constitution and reduce it to the sleek, efficient words: "Cruel and unusual punishment inflicted."
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:40 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

1st question is basically "haha, all the conservative groups hate your bill."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:44 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

This is not directed at you specifically zombieflanders, just a comment on the situation: It's been over two months and there have been over 125 bomb threats and three cemeteries vandalized, with numbers climbing as I write this. Most of those institutions are Jewish Community Centers, which house daycare and aftercare programs and/or schools, so the targets of these threats are Jewish children. The fact that all 100 Senators had to publicly beg the Trump administration to do something is disgusting.

Also of note is that at this point this is clearly a terrorist campaign.

In all likelihood a domestic terrorist campaign.
posted by srboisvert at 10:45 AM on March 7, 2017 [15 favorites]

The secretary for health and human services is a mighty articulate bullshitter, perhaps a first in this admin.
posted by OHenryPacey at 10:45 AM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Heck imagine if they took out the six pages on LOTTERY WINNERS! A real missed opportunity.
--
I have wanted to ask this for a while, so I'll tack it on to my low-information comment. Does anyone know if petitions.whitehouse.gov is not being administered now? I am not familiar with it, as a non-USian, but the site's link to "updated petitions" does not return anything. This does not surprise me.
posted by sylvanshine at 10:48 AM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Can you guarentee people can keep their doctors and have lower premiums? [paraphrase]

"our goal is"

"we believe strongly"
posted by mikepop at 10:48 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Sounds like an opportunity for a twitter "healthcare bill in five words".
posted by erisfree at 10:48 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Employer-provided insurance was not created by tax incentives. It was created during WW2, when there were wage freezes imposed. Businesses sought, and received, permission to offer health benefits as a way to attract good employees, since they could not raise wages.

In this millennium it isn't necessary to have a world war to get a defacto wage freeze.
posted by srboisvert at 10:51 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

The system has never made much sense to me.

A lot of countries have health insurance systems that began with workplace funds or some other industry/sector-specific cooperative -- Germany's sickness funds are the historical model there -- but the gaps have been filled in over time so they're no longer tied to specific jobs. And in Germany, costs are controlled by having a big negotiation between providers and insurers to set prices in advance.
posted by holgate at 10:51 AM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

"reforms that expand choice, increase access, lower costs, and, at the same time, provide better healthcare."

That's what DJT promised. Start pounding them w/ his own words and don't stop until he delivers.
posted by mikelieman at 10:51 AM on March 7, 2017 [18 favorites]

Even Price won't say he supports everything in the bill. Calls it a "work in progress."
posted by zachlipton at 10:52 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Sounds like an opportunity for a twitter "healthcare bill in five words".

"Fuck you, poor people. See, we saved a word. That's better, isn't it. Oh wait, we forgot that these words count. Well, I guess we're twenty words over. Shit, now it's twenty-six. Twenty-seven. FUCK."
posted by Etrigan at 10:54 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Even Price won't say he supports everything in the bill. Calls it a "work in progress."

That we're voting on tomorrow.
posted by chris24 at 10:54 AM on March 7, 2017 [42 favorites]

The Trump administration’s proposed budget will include a 14 percent cut in Coast Guard funding to help pay for a crackdown on illegal immigration, according to a new report.

45: What does the Coast Guard do?
Admiral: The Coast Guard has many responsibilities, including national defense
45: Okay
Admiral: Law enforcement
45: Okay
Admiral: Search and rescue
45: Meh. I don't go on boats, anyway. Scarier than stairs.
Admiral: Humanitarian aid during disasters and--
45: Oh fuck that noise
Admiral: --er, fisheries inspections
45: boring
Admiral: Environmental protection
45: Hate the environment.
Admiral: ...migrant interdiction.
45: Wait, you bust illegals?
Admiral: ...well, we rescue a lot of desperate rafters every year
45: By rescue you mean shoot 'em, right?
Admiral: No, we take them on board our ships and give them food and medical care. We take them in to process asylum claims or--
45: Fuck it, we're building a wall.
Admiral: You understand, they come here on boats--
45: We're building a wall.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:57 AM on March 7, 2017 [75 favorites]

Sounds like an opportunity for a twitter "healthcare bill in five words".

Expanded, improved Medicare for all.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:57 AM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

WaPo: WikiLeaks says it has obtained trove of CIA hacking tools

Semi-relatedly—and because there's nowhere else to drop it—"Portrait of a botnet: Uncovering a network of fake Trump supporters set up to make money from clicks" is a nearly perfect story for the Trump Age, combining as it does grift, Twitter, Russia, and "pictures of attractive women in revealing outfits."
posted by octobersurprise at 10:59 AM on March 7, 2017 [19 favorites]

Ah, but think of how much better their Bibles got when they cut out all that flabby 'Love thy neighbor' stuff and stuck to the important parts about stoning homosexuals.

Getting stoned with homosexuals? Sounds like a party!
posted by kirkaracha at 11:01 AM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

"Let them eat cake", the Chaffetz plan, is only four words.
posted by Artw at 11:04 AM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

Price just claimed to be unaware of the tax break for insurance company execs, which was basically the first thing everyone noticed when the bill came out. Then he fled.
posted by zachlipton at 11:07 AM on March 7, 2017 [43 favorites]

Spicer is going to look like a tongue-tied fifth grader after that oily performance by Price.
posted by chaoticgood at 11:07 AM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

I thought the Chaffez plan was "I'm cutting your allowance, children."
posted by contraption at 11:08 AM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

I think we're giving them too much credit. Their plan, in its entirety, is "go fuck yourselves".
posted by lydhre at 11:10 AM on March 7, 2017 [15 favorites]

Seems like Spicer is playing for time here, since he knows he's not nearly as slick and weaselly as Price.
posted by zachlipton at 11:14 AM on March 7, 2017

Spicer says "the President has not" asked the FBI Director for proof of alleged Obama wiretapping.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:16 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Spicer mistakenly says that 1/3 of counties in the US do not take Medicaid.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:19 AM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

The NYMag article T.D. Strange linked is excellent.

Republicans apparently believed they could grab one of the many conservative plans that have floated around Washington, or perhaps patch a few of them together. They quickly encountered an insurmountable obstacle. The main challenge in drafting any health-care plan is financing it. If you want to finance health-care access to people who can’t afford it, then other people have to pay for it. This is always a challenge in politics, since Americans don’t like paying for other people to get things, but it’s a special challenge for a party that has elevated opposition to new taxes to the status of theological precept.

There seemed to be one way out of the trap. Conservative health-care wonks wanted to eliminate or cap the tax deduction for employer-sponsored health insurance. This would be a mechanism that could pass philosophical muster among the keepers of the Reaganite flame, while potentially raising the hundreds of billions of dollars needed to finance coverage in any Republican plan. But, as the conservative analyst Christopher Jacobs explained yesterday, when Republicans modeled out the effects of capping the tax deduction, it turned out to have a deadly result. Reducing the tax incentive for employer-sponsored insurance, they found, would cause businesses to dump more people out of their employer-sponsored insurance.

Not only would this be a political catastrophe — millions and millions of Americans who were covered through their work and considered themselves safe would suddenly be tossed off their plans — it was a fiscal disaster as well. These newly uninsured people would now be eligible for the tax credits Republicans were trying to provide for the people already getting insurance through Obamacare. Jacobs likened the problem to quicksand. “The more they thrashed to get out of the quicksand — by increasing the subsidies or adjusting the cap on the employer exclusion, or both — the deeper they sank,” he reported, “by increasing the erosion of employer-sponsored insurance.”

And also this point has been made in this here thread:

So, because Republicans have spent years dismissing it as tyranny, Trumpcare has to eliminate the individual mandate. They came up with a different kind of penalty for going uninsured. If you go two months without coverage, then insurers are allowed to charge you 30 percent if you want to buy back into the system. Republicans may think this is a clever way to penalize people for going uninsured. It is likely to fail to accomplish its purpose, or even to backfire. People lose their coverage all the time. If you’re facing a 30 percent rate hike to get back on insurance, then your incentive changes: Now you want to wait until you really need insurance to pay those hefty premiums. In other words, rather than giving healthy people a reason to stay in the insurance pool, this gives them a reason to stay out.

So, it's impossible to fix it the way they want to fix it. Will they push through a fuckup out of sheer, spiteful determination? They're at least going to keep trying.
posted by fedward at 11:21 AM on March 7, 2017 [70 favorites]

Spicer mistakenly says that 1/3 of counties in the US do not take Medicaid.

what does that even mean

"one third of bakeries do not take shoes"

"one third of llamas do not take paper clips"

what does it mean
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:23 AM on March 7, 2017 [27 favorites]

"Let them eat cake", the Chaffetz plan, is only four words.

"Let them eat oxy." It's got an extra syllable, though.
posted by notyou at 11:27 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

So any question that's not a softball like "how soon can we call it Trumpcare?" gets the same treatment i.e.: I won't comment on that, it's best left to the agency involved.
Specifically asked about DHS and ICE plans to separate families, and he says that's not the WH's authority, even though those agencies fall under the executive branch.
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:27 AM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

I guess Spicer thinks Medicaid is some kind of pill, and counties are tiny counts (related to Barrons).
posted by Namlit at 11:29 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Specifically asked about DHS and ICE plans to separate families, and he says that's not the WH's authority, even though those agencies fall under the executive branch.

Make no mistake: this is an invitation for those agencies to work towards the Führer.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:31 AM on March 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

Spicer's briefing. He appears to have the new health care bill set up next to the Affordable Care Act bill on a table to show you how short the new one is.

Look how much smaller this can of gasoline and book of matches is compared to this building!
posted by phearlez at 11:31 AM on March 7, 2017 [18 favorites]

WaPo: WikiLeaks says it has obtained trove of CIA hacking tools

BBC news 100 days led with this story, and they suggested one consequence might be that it would be difficult to assign attribution to particular actors for hacks.

Does anyone know how plausible this is?
posted by mgrrl at 11:33 AM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

So, what happens in the meantime with the ACA? It chugs along and still operates while this 'solution' is hammered out in Congress?

What are the chances of this actually passing and derailing the ACA? I ask, because I'm one of those poors on Medicaid, and when I do work, I tend to take on contract projects, and then I buy my health insurance off of the exchanges.
posted by spinifex23 at 11:34 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

I wonder if Spicer ever thinks fondly back to his time as WH Easter Rabbit

One pill keeps you healthy
One pill, fevers fall
But the pills that Trumpcare gives you
Don't do anything at all
Go ask Spicer
All he'll do is stall
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:34 AM on March 7, 2017 [49 favorites]

What are the chances of this actually passing and derailing the ACA?

I think the chances of this particular bill passing are low.
posted by Justinian at 11:36 AM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

So, what happens in the meantime with the ACA? It chugs along and still operates while this 'solution' is hammered out in Congress?

Medicaid will be unaffected by any action in Congress until such point as they actually pass a bill and HHS goes through the rule making process.

The individual market will likely collapse for the 2018 plan year if insurance companies actually think this will pass. It's not even going to be a death spiral, they're just going to stop offering insurance to the individual market.
posted by zrail at 11:36 AM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

Make no mistake: this is an invitation for those agencies to work towards the Führer.

I suspect the Khizr Khan thing is also an example of this.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:37 AM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

WaPo: WikiLeaks says it has obtained trove of CIA hacking tools

Goodness I wonder how that happened right after their boy's boy came into office.

thoughtfulsmilie.gif
posted by winna at 11:37 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Remember all Trump's denials about never meeting Kislyak? Someone dug this up from 9 months ago in the WSJ.

Donald Trump Goes His Own Way With Vladimir Putin

Link goes to archive.is b/c WSJ is paywalled.

“I believe an easing of tensions, and improved relations with Russia—from a position of strength only—is possible, absolutely possible,” Mr. Trump said in a foreign-policy speech at Washington’s Mayflower Hotel in April. “Some say the Russians won’t be reasonable. I intend to find out.”

A few minutes before he made those remarks, Mr. Trump met at a VIP reception with Russia’s ambassador to the U.S., Sergey Ivanovich Kislyak. Mr. Trump warmly greeted Mr. Kislyak and three other foreign ambassadors who came to the reception.
posted by futz at 11:37 AM on March 7, 2017 [53 favorites]

October 29, 2015 Paul Ryan walks into the speaker's chair in the house of representatives.

[Years of obamacare complaining ]

And what do you call the act?

The REPUBLICANTS.
posted by srboisvert at 11:39 AM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

So any question that's not a softball like "how soon can we call it Trumpcare?"

I want to call the current Republican "healthcare access" plan: DON'Tcare. And when and if this one doesn't have, the next version can be labled STILLDON'Tcare, swiftly followed by STILLREALLYDON'Tcare.

(Nice ring to it. Catchy.)
posted by puddledork at 11:42 AM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

The individual market will likely collapse for the 2018 plan year if insurance companies actually think this will pass. It's not even going to be a death spiral, they're just going to stop offering insurance to the individual market.

This might happen either way just because of all the dithering. The more the GOP destabilizes the market now, the riskier it is for insurers. This has arguably been part of the plan all along ("look how bad the ACA is failing! See, another insurer just pulled out!") but the problem for the GOP is now that they will own the failure in a way they didn't when Obama was president and they could just blame it all on him, and people are starting to understand that.
posted by fedward at 11:44 AM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Hah. Spicer refused to answer any questions about the wiretapping thing and said they would have no further comment, but he also refused to say that Trump would stop tweeting about it.
posted by Justinian at 11:44 AM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

then other people have to pay for it. This is always a challenge in politics, since Americans don’t like paying for other people to get things

This bothers me so much. No, R publicans don't like paying for other people to get things, even when those things are the basic necessities of a dignified life in a civilized society: roads, healthcare, civil rights.

The rest of us want to pay for these things, and we want them to work at scale. We want our government to do its goddamn job, and we want to do our job, because we know we're all in this together.

We are not all in this Randian Nazi death cult. In fact, the death cultists are a minority. Let's not forget that.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:45 AM on March 7, 2017 [67 favorites]

This TED Talk is a powerful blueprint for engaging the other side: I grew up in the Westboro Baptist Church. Here's why I left | Megan Phelps-Roper
posted by guiseroom at 11:46 AM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

And what do you call the act?

The REPUBLICANTS.

We're not going with The Kakistocrats?
posted by Slackermagee at 11:46 AM on March 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

A Kindly Reminder by Passenger (from Feb 17, but I didn't see it mentioned on MeFi yet)

And I heard you say climate change isn't real
But that's not how the world's leading scientists feel
So go bury your head in the sand if you will
But the waters are rising around Capitol Hill

posted by ASCII Costanza head at 11:51 AM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Spicer refused to answer any questions about the wiretapping thing and said they would have no further comment

I don't think never speaking of it again is one of the options.
posted by diogenes at 11:52 AM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

they suggested one consequence might be that it would be difficult to assign attribution to particular actors for hacks.

Releasing the tools certainly helps muddy the waters in the future but releasing details about the infrastructure used in previous attacks helps victims that may or may not previously suspected the CIA establish that they were hit by them.

My money would be that this is a combination burn in retribution for the actions Obama took against the Russians before leaving office and intended to sow confusion and distrust within the US government and international community. And maybe remind certain people that are being blackmailed that it's not impossible to breach government data (and that phones can and have been hacked).

I highly doubt Flynn et al. have anything to do with this specifically, I expect this is old stuff that was popped years ago and doesn't have that much use any more, like the Shadow Brokers dump. If this was truly cutting edge stuff, it's more likely that it would have been kept secret and used by whoever pulled off the attack or sold to various government organizations.
posted by Candleman at 11:53 AM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

420 people have signed up to speak on SB6, the Texas transgender bathroom bill. Great job getting out there, Texans.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:55 AM on March 7, 2017 [24 favorites]

Do not under any circumstance install or run any of this leaked software. Even if it's legit CIA software there is no guarantee that it has not been modified by whoever leaked it to do something else than what it claims to do.
posted by PenDevil at 11:56 AM on March 7, 2017 [28 favorites]

Hallie Jackson did a nice job trying to push Spicey on one of the central contradictions around Trump's wiretapping tweet, which is why is he wants Congress to investigate something that he already has the evidence for. Wouldn't it be more efficient to, you know, give Congress that evidence first?

Of course, he can't, because then he'd have to admit his evidence is a Breitbart article, but his fundamental position boils down to "I know this thing. Now you people go find proof," and it's not remotely tenable.

I'd actually go further and ask Spicer why the President is obstructing Congress's investigation of this important matter by refusing to provide all the information he has. If the President has evidence of President Obama's wrongdoing, why is he withholding that evidence from the proper authorities?
posted by zachlipton at 12:02 PM on March 7, 2017 [42 favorites]

Spicer refused to answer any questions about the wiretapping thing and said they would have no further comment

I'm hoping that the absence of any attempt to spin this is a sign that they have no idea how to backtrack on this one. I know I can't think of any way out.
posted by diogenes at 12:03 PM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

Even if it's legit CIA software there is no guarantee that it has not been modified by whoever leaked it to do something else than what it claims to do.

More to the point, it was released by Wikileaks, which we suspect has been co-opted by Russia as a pro-Trump tool. The purpose is to save their puppet from the IC by discrediting them and to distract the press from Sessions.

If the release has come from Russian sources, I can guarantee you some of it is bogus, and some of the bogus is a trap set to compromise and undermine American infosec engineers. If you run any of this, you better have one mother of a sandbox, on a system in a locked room, without any contact with anything resembling a production network, never mind the Internet.
posted by Slap*Happy at 12:04 PM on March 7, 2017 [26 favorites]

Of course, he can't, because then he'd have to admit his evidence is a Breitbart article, but his fundamental position boils down to "I know this thing. Now you people go find proof," and it's not remotely tenable.

It really is delicious how intractable a trap he put himself in for absolutely no reason.
posted by diogenes at 12:04 PM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

On the bright side, there's so much crazy going on that Spicer just got to go an hour and a half without being asked about the Attorney General committing perjury, so he's got to be pretty happy about that.

And that's the plan for the wiretapping claim. They figure in a few days we'll all be talking about something else. And they might be right.
posted by diogenes at 12:06 PM on March 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

The big thing about the Republican healthcare bill is that, after all the complaining about Obamacare, it doesn't improve health insurance in any way whatsoever. It makes health insurance worse in every single way.

So what was its purpose? Just two things -- big tax cuts for the rich and less welfare for the poor. That's it. Those are the only two things the bill accomplishes. Meanwhile it is a big step back to the terrible insurance of the last century. If you can't afford a doctor, go to the emergency room.
posted by JackFlash at 12:09 PM on March 7, 2017 [37 favorites]

They figure in a few days we'll all be talking about something else. And they might be right.

They think so, there's a decent chance Trump will keep on bringing it back up (like his constant birtherism) because to him it's obvious Obama did it (and was born in Kenya).
posted by PenDevil at 12:11 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Come to think of it, Spicer also got to get through an entire briefing without being pressed on the new travel ban, something else for which there's also no evidence to support. There are just too many things to be outraged about.
posted by zachlipton at 12:12 PM on March 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

Molina Healthcare says that killing the mandates would mean a 30% rise in premiums next year, more as the subsides shrink in future years, leading to a drop in enrollment "by three-quarters or more."

Ann Coulter provides a less technical analysis: "Who wrote this piece of crap Obamacare replacement bill? Please be specific."
posted by zachlipton at 12:18 PM on March 7, 2017 [28 favorites]

Meanwhile it is a big step back to the terrible insurance of the last century.

It is actually worse than that. This will also destroy employer based coverage as we know it.
posted by localhuman at 12:19 PM on March 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

Ann Coulter provides a less technical analysis: "Who wrote this piece of crap Obamacare replacement bill? Please be specific."

I believe you should start with Paul "Deep Thinker and Wonkish Policy Expert" Ryan.
posted by diogenes at 12:22 PM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

Ann Coulter? I guess even a stopped watch is right twice a day.
posted by bq at 12:25 PM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

This dog of an administration just keeps dropping turds in front of the press roomba.
posted by srboisvert at 12:27 PM on March 7, 2017 [29 favorites]

slap*happy: If the release has come from Russian sources, I can guarantee you some of it is bogus, and some of the bogus is a trap set to compromise and undermine American infosec engineers. If you run any of this, you better have one mother of a sandbox, on a system in a locked room, without any contact with anything resembling a production network, never mind the Internet.

Yep. Keep in mind: In 2008, according to “Dark Territory,” a history of cyberwar by Fred Kaplan, Russian hackers accomplished a feat that Pentagon officials considered almost impossible: breaching a classified network that wasn’t even connected to the public Internet. Apparently, Russian spies had supplied cheap thumb drives, stocked with viruses, to retail kiosks near NATO headquarters in Kabul, betting, correctly, that a U.S. serviceman or woman would buy one and insert it into a secure computer. In the past decade, cyber tactics have become an essential component of Russia’s efforts to exert influence over its neighbors.

posted by zarq at 12:29 PM on March 7, 2017 [37 favorites]

They figure in a few days we'll all be talking about something else. And they might be right.

Might be, but I think they're getting the inkling that this thing where they keep kicking a can down the road isn't sustainable in their situation. Eventually looking buffoonish hurts your brand and harms your ability to get things done. People don't want to work for you, other politicians don't want to work with you, folks take you less and less seriously. When you're in a position like the Rs, where you have to keep your entire coalition and peel off some of the indecisive middle, you can't afford those loses in stature.
posted by phearlez at 12:30 PM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

of government-provided health care, it's nothing but horror stories from England, Canada, and France.

If you ever need 'em, as rebuttal witnesses, I've got good stories about Health Care in Canada.
posted by nubs at 12:32 PM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

Ann Coulter? I guess even a stopped watch is right twice a day.

Don't give them credit. All of the opposition from the right is because this bill is still too much like Obamacare. They want people dead in the streets, full stop. Nothing less is acceptable to most of the Republican base.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:39 PM on March 7, 2017 [45 favorites]

To digress a moment, one of the things that infuriates me about privatization discourse is that we have the sterling example of UK privatization under the Tories, and what a giant disaster it's been in virtually every area, and yet that very seldom gets brought up on either side of any privatization debate.

And yet the minute one brings up the fact that every other industrialized nation has some form of government-provided health care, it's nothing but horror stories from England, Canada, and France.

If you ever need 'em, as rebuttal witnesses, I've got good stories about Health Care in Canada.

Canada has privatized health care. Single payer yes but lots of private delivery. In fact we largely have the system that the UK conservatives are ostensibly trying to move to though I believe their motives are ultimately more diabolical than replicating OHIP because English toffs gotta toff.
posted by srboisvert at 12:42 PM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

>> They figure in a few days we'll all be talking about something else. And they might be right.

> Might be, but I think they're getting the inkling that this thing where they keep kicking a can down the road isn't sustainable in their situation. Eventually looking buffoonish hurts your brand and harms your ability to get things done.

On the one hand, I agree - once the administration has the stink of "losers" it's not getting back to winning. That's why the unflattering comparisons to Obama's first hundred days are aggravating Trump so much - for all his incompetence in other areas, he understands flashy showmanship, and the first hundred days' reviews are coming soon. Without some flashy accomplishments... LOSERS!

You've got to believe that, for example, it stung Trump to sign the revised executive order on the travel ban behind closed doors, without a fawning press and gold souvenir pens. And the first thing the new, watered down order does is to revoke the previous one. So much for "see you in court". That's not winning.

Now, this dog of a healthcare bill. He's already stuck his neck out to take credit for it, but does it cover more people? Is it better - in any way? How's he supposed to sell this to his loyal base and bask in glory and lap up the warm frothy waves of adulation with this crap? Stand by for anger tweets at 3 AM, is what I'm saying.

But on the other hand, as much as this delicious turn of events for the sore winners amuses me, it's a terrifying moment. The country is adrift. Worse than no one at the wheel - we have people at the wheel actively trying to drive us into the ditch. "Our enemies ... never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we," said George W. Bush - and I thought that was funny. Now, not so much.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:48 PM on March 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

it's nothing but horror stories from England, Canada, and France.

Its far from perfect, but an ongoing solution would be to increase funding for the programs.

There's also a lot of fear mongering, too. There's a triage system - if you urgently need the treatment, you get the treatment. If it's something elective, yes, there will usually be a wait time because triage.
posted by porpoise at 12:51 PM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

There's a triage system - if you urgently need the treatment, you get the treatment. If it's something elective, yes, there will usually be a wait time because triage.

This bumps up against the proud American tradition of refusing to seek treatment until you've got one foot in the grave because the treatment would be too expensive. So everyone seeking treatment needs it right now.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:56 PM on March 7, 2017 [22 favorites]

It is actually worse than that. This will also destroy employer based coverage as we know it.

I understand the economic argument, but I would be wary of pushing it too hard. Republicans said much the same thing about Obamacare, that it would encourage small businesses to cut insurance and send their employees to the exchanges. The CBO even projected in 2010 that there would be a lot more ACA signups because of this. Except it didn't happen. It seems that employer supplied health insurance is a lot more sticky than people thought. Fewer businesses than originally thought are willing to change decades of expectations regarding benefits by throwing it away entirely.

I would be reluctant to adopt old Republican fear tactics over something that is less certain and made Republicans look stupid when the ACA was adopted. Better to concentrate on the unquestionably bad effects of the plan.
posted by JackFlash at 12:56 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

it's nothing but horror stories from England, Canada, and France.

I freaking LOVE telling republicans that my country of birth (not even a "developed" country!) has universal healthcare, and when my mum got a stroke the government paid for her doctors and physical therapists to visit her at home. The physical therapists are still going every other day and her stroke was in 2014. When a friend of mine was diagnosed with cancer, he did not pay one dime for treatment, which was successful.

The same relatively poor government paid for my bachelor's degree and made sure that I had three heavily subsidized meals a day (free if needed) and a discount to cultural events while I attended university. Even public transportation is half off if you show your student ID.

Republicans never know what to say to that.
posted by Tarumba at 12:57 PM on March 7, 2017 [94 favorites]

If you can't afford a doctor, go to the emergency room.
It must be noted that President Reagan brought about a law forcing emergency rooms to take anybody. Before that, it was even scarier.

Single payer yes but lots of private delivery.
Even if we get single payer in the U.S., the doctors are not going to give up their personal corporations. More Americans get into Med School for the money than to help people. And those Congresscritters who are M.D.s? Most got into politics because they were failing as doctors. I have suspicions that Ben Carson's Brain Surgery practice is keeping cadavers in the closets.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:59 PM on March 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

Goodness I wonder how that happened right after their boy's boy came into office.

Eh, the Shadow Brokers breach happened under Obama. Breaches happen. I'd guess it's just a normal breach until there's evidence otherwise.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 1:00 PM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Globally speaking, a stopped watch is correct 48 times a day. stop insulting stopped watches.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:00 PM on March 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

Republicans said much the same thing about Obamacare, that it would encourage small businesses to cut insurance and send their employees to the exchanges. The CBO even projected in 2010 that there would be a lot more ACA signups because of this. Except it didn't happen.

it didn't happen because the only way for employers to save money in that scenario is to give their employees a huge effective pay cut, which is a great way to end up with no employees. if they dropped insurance and gave the savings to their workers, the net benefit would still be lower than giving insurance because of the tax incentives.

republican talking point disingenuous: film at 11
posted by murphy slaw at 1:01 PM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

it's nothing but horror stories from England, Canada, and France.

The only "horror stories" I hear from fellow Canadians are entitled Upper Middle Class snowflakes complaining that they don't have the option of paying for a better class of care than everyone else and jump the queues.
posted by rocket88 at 1:03 PM on March 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

> diagnosed with cancer, he did not pay one dime for treatment, which was successful.

Yes, when my dad was being treated for multiple myeloma, even after all the drugs wore out, the Canadian government was still very generous with supportive and palliative care. Blood infusions every week. Blood testing every week. Dental surgery when it got into his jaw. Opioid pankillers during the final days in (the very nice) hospice care.

Did not have to pay anything out of pocket.

The hospital even offered to reimburse parking fees.
posted by porpoise at 1:04 PM on March 7, 2017 [31 favorites]

My one and only encounter with socialized healthcare was in England in the 80s. While living there, my eye muscles decided to play silly buggers (am I doing this right?) and my eyes crossed. We went to the clinic and the doctor was like, "Mmhm, yep. Well, we can put you on the list for a CAT scan (just to make sure there's no brain tumors causing this) and eye surgery. It'll be a couple months." We were moving back to the states in about that same time frame so we declined. Once we got back, I was seen by a doctor here who had a CAT scanner down the hall from his office (by contrast there was a single machine in all of Cambridgeshire cuz like it was 1987), I got my scan that day and surgery in the following couple of weeks.

My dad, ever the free marketeer, was scandalized at this situatuion and it would forever be proof that socialized medicine is terrible. 12-year-old me, though, really wasn't. Like, crossed eyes is not life threatening. It could have been caused by a tumor, but this was highly unlikely (no other symptoms), and I could get around just fine with crossed eyes. (Protip: close one eye whilst bike-riding to eliminate double vision.) It just didn't bother me that much (which is maybe a testament to how odd I was as a child, that walking around with very obviously crossed eyes was no big deal). They told me it would be months before I could get it corrected and I just shrugged.

The American system has primed those of us lucky enough to grow up with hot and cold running health care to demand everything NOW NOW NOW. Even if we don't need it now, even if someone else does need something now and we'd be preventing them from getting it. If we don't get it now, it must mean we're not as important as those other people and we can't have that, now can we?
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:04 PM on March 7, 2017 [20 favorites]

Even if we get single payer in the U.S., the doctors are not going to give up their personal corporations.

Single-payer, as noted above, is not the same as a fully-socialized health care delivery system (such as the NHS in England).

It simply means that private or non-profit medical providers (doctors, hospitals, etc.) only have to deal with one insurer (payer). It would make their lives quite a lot easier by reducing the multiple payers they need to deal with now for billing, prior authorization requests, handling of referrals, etc, each of which have their own rules and quirks.

It would mean that providers have less power to say 'no' to the rate schedules set by the payer, since it would be the only game in town. But the lower reimbursements would be offset, at least in part, by the huge reduction in administrative complexity.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:06 PM on March 7, 2017 [27 favorites]

There's a triage system - if you urgently need the treatment, you get the treatment. If it's something elective, yes, there will usually be a wait time because triage.

There's a triage system in the US too. Well, more like an n-age system, where you have to have n dollars to get care. But even if you have employer provided health insurance, they perform primary triage by denying your requests for care. Like the MRI requested by her doctor my wife's insurance just turned down because she's apparently not sick enough to warrant finding out if she's sick or not.
posted by dis_integration at 1:08 PM on March 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

I am on my way to the state Capitol to deliver a hastily written printed testimony. Couldn't get away from work early enough to read it, but I can make enough time to do that much today. And this one I don't have to spit out in under 60 seconds either.

To whom it may concern:

Hello. My name is [sciatrix], and I'm a biologist right here at UT Austin. I am writing to you to express my strong opposition to SB 6. I believe this bill is unscientific, that it is ineffective at the stated goal of making bathrooms safe for women, and that it is unenforceable without severely violating the privacy of Texans. More importantly, I believe this bill is just plain evil and immoral because it encourages harassment of people who have done absolutely nothing wrong beyond, I suppose, having the temerity to exist in public. Texas is better than this.

I said I was a biologist, and in fact I have made a special study of the development of sex and differences between sexes, not only in humans but in a number of different species. As it turns out, it is not a simple thing to declare a line in the sand of "biologically female" vs "biologically male." We biologists have finally had to resort to defining femaleness or maleness in animals by the size of gametes--egg or sperm cells--that each class of animal produces, because every other measure we could come up with was violated by some species' natural way of dividing sexes. Even within a species, distinctions between male and female are never as clear-cut as the law often assumes.

For example, did you know that every single human embryo develops with the exact same genital structures to start with? It's true. Over developmental time, the basic building blocks of anatomy become organized towards a pattern we associate with male or a pattern we associate with female, but sometimes things get a bit confused along the way and infants are born with anatomy that isn't so clear cut. Sometimes when the sex of a baby is being determined, the delivering obstetrician has to go "well, uh, if this genital is longer than an inch I guess it's a penis, so this kid's a boy.... and if it's shorter than an inch guess it must be a clitoris and this is a girl." Sometimes that guess doesn't match so well with how the kid acts and feels later on, but from genitals there isn't always a clear answer for determining if a child will grow up to be a girl or a boy. And in the interim--well, where should the child pee? What happens if you guess wrong?

(There was a famous case, honored legislators, where a baby's penis was accidentally removed through a botched circumcision shortly after birth, and the boy was raised as a girl. He decided, when he hit puberty, that he was really a young man and went on to live a rather happier life as a man. Was that the wrong decision for him to make? Where should he have gone to use the toilet? If he had chosen to go along with the sex that doctors decided he should be raised with when he was born, where should he have used the toilet?)

When I tell these stories, I often hear from exasparated folks that we should use the genotypical sex then--XY for all men, and XX for all women. My initial response to this is usually that we don't actually know the karyotypes--that is, the pattern of sex chromosomes--for any given person just by looking. In fact, I have been karyotyped, and I know for a fact I'm XX; and I know for another fact that when the topic comes up in conversation, I am always the only person in the room who knows my chromosomal status for a fact.

See, it's not uncommon for people to exist who have sex chromosome statuses like X (only one copy!) or XXX or XYY or XXY. Where should they go to pee? And, honorable legislators, lest you think that well, those cases are just unusual edge cases... well, first, those unusual edge cases are people too, and they have to pee sometimes same as anyone else. And secondly, sometimes a baby is born looking perfectly female with an XY karyotype. There's a condition called Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, you see, and it means that even if the gene that says "become male" is present on that Y chromosome, the tissues of the developing baby don't notice it talking to them and develop along the default path instead. (The default path, of course, is female in mammals.) Those little girls usually grow up without noticing anything is different about them and don't even find out that they're XY and not XX until they go to the gynecologist because they aren't getting their periods. Like any little girls, though, they have to pee sometimes. Where should they go?

Now, I am not only a biologist; I'm also a woman. I have short hair for a woman, but I'm otherwise fairly run of the mill. I mean, I naturally produce high levels of testosterone, as high as some young men's last I was checked, when you pull my blood for titers. But that's true for my mother and my aunts too. Turns out that you can't really divide women by hormones either, especially when the condition that puts high androgen levels into my system is thought to affect something like 20% of all women. Mostly it just makes my bleeding cycles a bit irregular, but it doesn't really hurt my self-concept as a woman.

(Oh, and that karyotype I mentioned having had done? Came back XX. I'm not trans. But I am a common and natural point on the spectrum of all women, and it turns out that when you start talking to us, these clear cut sex differences start to get... complicated. About the only thing I do find to be true of all the women I meet is that sometimes we have to pee when we're out and about.)

I said I thought this law was unenforceable, and I say it because finding out what my status is and finding out whether you define me as female enough, honorable legislators, requires me to disclose quite a few details about what's in my pants and my personal (and private!) medical history. I find the concept of having to tell some gatekeeper all of this every time I go to pee to be frankly horrifying--to say nothing of the cost of the salaries of hypothetical bathroom police intended to be used to enforce this law. It seems like a bit of a waste of taxpayer money, to tell you the truth.

What I do think this law will do is embolden people who want to harass their neighbors. I mentioned I had short hair, as far as women go, and I've been harassed for that before. Because folks weren't sure on first glance what my gender was and that upset them, they felt entitled to scream slurs at me while I was out walking my dog wearing a heavy sweater when I was just seventeen. My wife has been harassed in bathrooms before because another lady there felt she wasn't entitled to pee, even though she was using the bathroom your law would entitle her to use. Many of my friends, both transgender and cisgender, have encountered some form of public harassment based on their gender presentation not being what some random person on the street would like.

Honorable legislators, I'm afraid of this bill. I'm afraid someone will hit me in a bathroom because they don't like the way I cut my hair. I'm afraid my wife will get hurt by some jerk while she walks our dog because someone thinks she's not dressed like a woman should dress. I'm scared my friends will get beaten or worse, and I am terrified for my students here at UT Austin who are just beginning to figure out how they want to present themselves in public and trying to find out a safe environment. I'm especially afraid that anyone who doesn't like the way I look will try to publicly make me disclose all these details of my private life and my genital configuration as a way of making me uncomfortable and unwelcome, and I think this law will give them a perfect tool with which to do it.

That's why I think this bill is evil, honorable legislators. And that's really why I think you should vote it down. It's not as simple as the folks who put it together made it seem to be, and the costs to many of us Texans are too damn high. Please vote it down.
posted by sciatrix at 1:12 PM on March 7, 2017 [170 favorites]

I got hit by a car while riding my bike home from work in early december. Ambulance came, they strapped me to a gurney and told me I could not walk it off. I turned out to be thoroughly bruised and very very mildly concussed; fine, unlike my poor Surley Long Haul Trucker.

Since I'm still an Ontario resident on paper, I had no RAMQ card and I had to receive the bills myself, then forward them to OHIP. Seeing those totals on the bills made me very thankful for our system. Paying in the short term and then waiting for OHIP to reimburse me beats having over 1000$ out of my pocket gone forever.

Additionally, the SAAQ reimbursed me for lost wages while I convalesced at home for a few weeks. They covered my metro passes that I had to take out because I didn't have a bike. They payed for my painkillers, which is one of the few things that aren't covered under our system.

If that's socialism, then I fucking love socialism.
posted by constantinescharity at 1:12 PM on March 7, 2017 [63 favorites]

The American system has primed those of us lucky enough to grow up with hot and cold running health care to demand everything NOW NOW NOW. Even if we don't need it now, even if someone else does need something now and we'd be preventing them from getting it. If we don't get it now, it must mean we're not as important as those other people and we can't have that, now can we?

Right, and per your anecdote, the perceived need to have expensive tests or equipment available at the drop of a hat (for people with good insurance, of course) is one of the things that drives up medical costs for everyone. Except those costs are particularly hidden to people with employer-based coverage since they are not used to thinking of the employer-paid portion of their coverage as part of their compensation that isn't actually going to their wages.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:13 PM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

But then what would become of me, the consumer, whose only entertainment is calling provider after provider, asking "do you take my plan" and hearing "uh... we might? we used to? oh wait i think we stopped taking it this year? i dont think we take it anymore?"

You are indeed a special snowflake, Greg Nog. Yeah, you're not going to like single-payer so much then.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:15 PM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

The macro picture: about $2 trillion per year spent reasonably well in a sensible way would provide everyone in the US with good health care. That's a lot of money. It's also only about 12% of GDP, and considerably less than is currently spent. The micro picture: it feels as if the average American wants to pay $100 a month in premiums and go to the Mayo Clinic, in part because those in nice middle-class group plans don't feel like $500 a month is going to an insurer behind the scenes.

the lower reimbursements would be offset, at least in part, by the huge reduction in administrative complexity.

The Australian single-payer approach goes something like this (Australians, please correct me): we've set a tariff for a particular procedure or service, and if you follow that tariff, then you can batch-bill all your patients. If you want to charge more, then there's more paperwork involved. The pricing's also a lot more transparent, because the tariff serves as a reference cost. I was looking at the price-fixing lawsuit about US insulin pricing, which was all about creating vig for big pharmacy benefit companies like Express Scripts by manipulating the difference between the bullshit bistromaths sticker price and the "discount" price that insurers pay in exchange for putting something on the formulary. That shit only happens in a broken system.
posted by holgate at 1:17 PM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

it didn't happen because the only way for employers to save money in that scenario is to give their employees a huge effective pay cut, which is a great way to end up with no employees.

No, they were not talking about big corporations with robust health insurance benefits. They were talking about small businesses with near-minimum wage employees and pretty minimal insurance benefits. Since their employee incomes were so low, they could go to the exchanges and get better fully subsidized plans for less than their old employer insurance. Tax incentives are not a big deal for employees that don't pay income taxes. (although they do pay FICA). The CBO made an analysis that said this would happen. But it didn't, not because the finances didn't make sense, but because of the stickiness of tradition.
posted by JackFlash at 1:17 PM on March 7, 2017

denying your requests for care

I fell and banged my head face-first against a metal pole a couple years ago. Went to the in-network emergency room ("Hello, yes, I seem to have broken my face."). Three weeks later, got a bill in the mail for $600, payable to the physicians group the ER doctor belonged to. Because while the hospital was in-network, the physicians who work inside the hospital may or may not be in-network, and when laying on a gurney with a concussion and broken nose, asking whether or not your ER doctor is or is not in your health insurance network isn't really foremost in your mind. (What was foremost in my mind was pretty much just stars and tweety birds.)

Fortunately, my state passed a law a few years ago saying that this particular brand of bullshit (which is super common and people get tripped up by it all the time) cannot fly in the context of an emergency room visit. So I paid it (in order to avoid collections) and then got a refund by sending around some very strongly-worded letters. But not all states have this law, and even in states with this law, you get situations where you arrange to have surgery at an in-network hospital, and your doctor is in-network, but your anesthetist mysteriously isn't and suddenly you have a $3000 bill for surgery that would otherwise be covered.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:18 PM on March 7, 2017 [47 favorites]

It must be noted that President Reagan brought about a law forcing emergency rooms to take anybody. Before that, it was even scarier.

Oh you mean EMTALA?

Despite Federal Law, Some Rural Hospitals Still Turn Away Women in Labor

Under the federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, or EMTALA, every U.S. hospital with an emergency room has a duty to treat patients who arrive in labor, caring for them at least until the delivery of the placenta after a baby is born...

..A review of federal inspection reports shows that at least 20 rural hospitals around the country have been found in violation of EMTALA over the last five years — including Jewish Hospital Shelbyville. In several cases, women suffered serious complications after being turned away, or were misdiagnosed at facilities that lacked specialists in obstetrics.
posted by emjaybee at 1:20 PM on March 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

Whenever I've asked the Trump supporters in my family to describe how they actually want healthcare to work, they always end up describing what is essentially Medicare for All paid for with progressive taxation. But if you point out "that's single payer" or "that's Medicare for All" they're like "no, single payer is socialism, Medicare is failing, this is just common sense and fair." It's extremely frustrating.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:20 PM on March 7, 2017 [58 favorites]

Metafilter: i fucking love socialism
posted by murphy slaw at 1:22 PM on March 7, 2017 [27 favorites]

But not all states have this law, and even in states with this law, you get situations where you arrange to have surgery at an in-network hospital, and your doctor is in-network, but your anesthetist mysteriously isn't and suddenly you have a $3000 bill for surgery that would otherwise be covered.

I had this happen for a scheduled surgery -- hospital was in network, surgeon was in network, procedure was covered, but the anesthesiologist was out of network and my insurance didn't cover anything out of network at the time, so I got a bill for $3500. Even though I already had an IV in by the time the guy entered the room.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:24 PM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

Sick burn by David Corn:

"The Communist Manifesto is shorter than the Federalist Papers!"
posted by diogenes at 1:25 PM on March 7, 2017 [54 favorites]

But it didn't, not because the finances didn't make sense, but because of the stickiness of tradition.

Couldn't we use this to estimate the "price" of transition costs? (Or the value of inertia, or however you want to put it.)

I think the context also matters. The GOP tried to repeal the ACA the entire time, since its inception. If you're a business that makes decisions on a ten year time horizon, are you going to adapt immediately to legislation that one party swears to repeal? What if none of your competitors adapt?

It might be different if these businesses are suddenly faced with an immediate and massive tax hike for keeping their benefits.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:25 PM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

But then what would become of me, the consumer, whose only entertainment is calling provider after provider, asking "do you take my plan" and hearing "uh... we might? we used to? oh wait i think we stopped taking it this year? i dont think we take it anymore?"

Heh, and on further thought, I had to deal with a similar situation just last week -- a patient came into my office to get insurance help because we had referred her out to a specialist who doesn't take the insurance plan that she was going to be in starting this month. Apparently when she asked about it, the two receptionists started fighting with each other over whether the provider took the plan, and the poor patient ended up just walking away in tears.

And I have patients tell me all the time that they had a similar issue with their PCP/therapist/specialist/whatever. It's so infuriating because really, you don't know if you're going to get paid for the service you're about to provide? You don't have an up-to-date list of accepted insurance plans that you can consult to help a patient who wants to use your services? Great business sense, there.

The best is when they're like, "Oh yeah, we take Blue Cross" and think that's super-helpful. Be more specific, clinic person.

Well, now I'm all mad about stupid health care fuckups again. Thanks Metafilter!
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:26 PM on March 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

A couple deleted, wow are we not diving into intersex and abortion in here.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:26 PM on March 7, 2017 [15 favorites]

The House Intelligence Committee will hold its first public hearing this month on the investigation into Russia's influence on the 2016 election.

The committee's chairman, Rep. Devin Nunes, R-Calif., said it will take place on March 20.

FBI Director James Comey, National Security Agency Director Mike Rogers, former CIA Director John Brennan, former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper will all be invited.
posted by diogenes at 1:26 PM on March 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

The House Intelligence Committee will hold its first public hearing on Russia on March 20th. The witness list is James Comey, Mike Rogers, John Brennan, James Clapper, Sally Yates, and two people from CrowdStrike.

Sally Yates! Popcorn futures are at an all-time high.
posted by zachlipton at 1:27 PM on March 7, 2017 [41 favorites]

Melissasaurus:

The cognitive dissonance is infuriating. I know a guy who I share a name with from Boston. Once, we talked to about healthcare. I described my experiences with our system here. He said it wouldn't work in Boston, because (I'm paraphrasing), "All the hispanics would fill up the emergency rooms and hospital systems would collapse."

The only explanation I have for right wing, and even centrist Americans against single payer is that they are either a)wealthy or the child of someone wealthy (this applies to the guy in my story) or b) secretly masochists
posted by constantinescharity at 1:29 PM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

The only explanation I have for right wing, and even centrist Americans against single payer is that they are either a)wealthy or the child of someone wealthy (this applies to the guy in my story) or b) secretly masochists

It's even worse than that. It's the very idea that someone (not them) might get something and they might not get that thing. It's as if their worlds are built on finite resources, and every single cookie someone else eats is a cookie they can't have. Nevermind that they have ten cookies. Nevermind that they don't even need a cookie right now. It's the very idea that they can't have the cookie that you're having that drives them bonkers. So when you say that we'll make health care easy to get and take all the bullshit out of the system so that when someone, including you, gets sick you can go to a doctor and not die. All they hear is "all the doctors will get used up, and you will die."

It's like how I feel about chickens. They have no basis in the rational world for their hatred of single payer health care, but unlike my insane and (largely) unfounded fear of chickens, I'm not setting national policy based on bullshit emotions.
posted by teleri025 at 1:36 PM on March 7, 2017 [22 favorites]

Sorry for your loss, angrycat.
posted by mosk at 1:38 PM on March 7, 2017 [30 favorites]

The only explanation I have for right wing, and even centrist Americans against single payer is that they are either a)wealthy or the child of someone wealthy (this applies to the guy in my story) or b) secretly masochists

Your anecdote points to a third explanation: racism.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:41 PM on March 7, 2017 [22 favorites]

I freaking LOVE telling republicans that my country of birth (not even a "developed" country!) has universal healthcare, and when my mum got a stroke the government paid for her doctors and physical therapists to visit her at home. The physical therapists are still going every other day and her stroke was in 2014. When a friend of mine was diagnosed with cancer, he did not pay one dime for treatment, which was successful.

Yes, almost every single country in the world had better and cheaper healthcare than the US. Famously, this includes Cuba. But it also includes China, Brazil and Greece. And many, many other countries. Here's just a reminder of the OECD stats which don't say anything about quality. One measurement could be child mortality

Since I am not American, it would be fair to say I shouldn't meddle. But the thing is, the US is the most powerful nation in the world, and if it breaks down because of poor governance, the consequences will felt across the globe. I feel it is fair of me to ask of you guys to get your shit together.
posted by mumimor at 1:41 PM on March 7, 2017 [24 favorites]

But then what would become of me, the consumer, whose only entertainment is calling provider after provider, asking "do you take my plan" and hearing "uh... we might? we used to? oh wait i think we stopped taking it this year? i dont think we take it anymore?"

I've pretty much resigned myself to what I call "Voodoo-care". See, when you go to the doctor, you bring a chicken. Sometimes for barter, sometimes for a sacrifice. Whatever works.
posted by mikelieman at 1:43 PM on March 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

teleri025:

Which is baffling to me. I don't care if the people in front of me in line at the emergency room when I sliced the nerves in my index finger were all there for trivial reasons. I got that care without paying mad money for it. I pay high taxes, yes, but I firmly believe I have gotten my value. And I understand that buying in with others is what makes the price-care ratio so good. How hard is it for people to understand what a grocery or farm or whatever co-op is, and then apply that thinking to healthcare?

This hyper-competitive, literally-everything-is-a-zero-sum-game attitude in America is one of the things that has kept me from returning.

Tabascodegama:

Absolutely. That guy was terrifyingly racist, and a great example of how that intertwines with these other issues. I'll never forget his, "hispanics are x and y negative adjective, but my friend who happens to be hispanic is good and that's proof I'm not racist" spiel. He was also obsessed with guns, a bernie-bro.
posted by constantinescharity at 1:45 PM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

It's more than someone might be getting something that they're not getting (and don't need). It's that someone, somewhere might be getting something they don't deserve.

The calculus of who deserves what is problematic along about 50 different axes, and it is complicated and there are lots of carve-outs for "people I know" and "people who look/behave exactly like me". The problem with all this conservative Trumpist bullshit is that people want to write laws that somehow capture all these micro-categories of people who "deserve" stuff while excluding the infinite poorly-defined categories of people who don't, and you can't actually do that."I thought leopards would just eat the faces of those people, I didn't think the leopards eating faces party meant leopards eating everyone's faces!"
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:49 PM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

Haven't seen this yet. Trump met with Russian Ambassador Kislyak five months before election. Two days later, Wikileaks released the DNC hacked emails.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:50 PM on March 7, 2017 [41 favorites]

That was a fantastic letter, sciatrix, and a model of logic and of explaining science to lay people.

It would be considered by anyone who wasn't beyond the reach of science, logic and ordinary human feeling.
posted by glasseyes at 1:50 PM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

The only explanation I have for right wing, and even centrist Americans against single payer is that they are either a)wealthy or the child of someone wealthy (this applies to the guy in my story) or b) secretly masochists

I just can't fathom their lived experience: even if they're personally healthy, surely they know somebody who's dealing with this stuff? "I went a year getting semi-regular medical treatment and never had to query a bill or argue with an insurance provider," said nobody in the US ever.

It's a kind of grim learned helplessness: the notion that the current pile of bureaucratic nonsense is either the system working normally or actually caused by Those Poor People Over There.
posted by holgate at 1:53 PM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

Tarumba: I freaking LOVE telling republicans that my country of birth (not even a "developed" country!) has universal healthcare...
...
Republicans never know what to say to that.

They'd probably sputter on about "entitlements" or some bullshit. Some are even looking overseas where lower costs of treatment appear to them like The Magic Of The Free Market. For example, Republican Rep. Dave Brat of Virginia, this morning on NPR:

If you look at the cost of health care, if we wouldn't have had 20 percent cost increases over the years and premium increases, et cetera, and you had a free market system - you got heart procedures here that are 150 grand that in India are 15 grand.

Yet, he didn't get around to mentioning that due to medical costs mostly being out-of-pocket, many households to incur Catastrophic Health Expenditure (CHE) which can be defined as health expenditure that threatens a household's capacity to maintain a basic standard of living.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:53 PM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Video of a reporter asking a great question about Trump's wiretapping claim, and Spicer falling on his face trying to answer. (From today's press briefing.)
posted by diogenes at 1:54 PM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

Our Nation Is Not Healthy. And this new plan is the culmination of 25 years of conservative thought.

This isn't a plan. This is not a burlesque of a plan. This is not even a ghost of a plan. And everybody hates it...

And here is something else that it is not. It is not TrumpCare. It is RepubliCare. The bill that dropped like a dead fish in a sanctuary late Monday evening is the culmination of nearly 25 years of Republican policy thinking since Bill Clinton put health care reform at the top of the agenda in the 1992 campaign. All of the greatest hits are in there, and they're all just as cruel and stupid and unworkable as they ever were...

posted by homunculus at 1:54 PM on March 7, 2017 [31 favorites]

Did Paul Ryan intentionally sabotage his own health care plan?

Consider the case of Rand Paul. Kentucky's very popular Medicaid program, Kynect, would be destroyed by the Republican bill. So attacking the bill from the nominal right while allowing Kynect to live would be the least bad option for Paul. Many of the other GOP senators from states that have accepted the ACA's Medicaid expansion probably feel similarly.

For many Republicans, cold political logic dictates that RyanCare should be allowed to die. And Paul Ryan might know it.

posted by tonycpsu at 1:54 PM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

> From Plastic Jesus: Signs Designating "Future Internment Camp" Go Up At Empty Lots Nationwide

A Conversation with the Artist Behind Those 'Future Internment Camps': Plastic Jesus speaks.
posted by homunculus at 1:55 PM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

about $2 trillion per year spent reasonably well in a sensible way would provide everyone in the US with good health care. That's a lot of money. It's also only about 12% of GDP, and considerably less than is currently spent.

It seems to me like in the future healthcare may make up the majority of our GDP, and that would be fine! What's wrong with "healthy people" being our biggest domestic product?

An argument that I never hear made but which makes perfect sense to me:

"Healthcare" and "unemployment" are problems that solve each other.

Why is the price of healthcare so high, and rising? I think it's at least partly because 1) it can't be automated very well and 2) it demands lots of labor.

This sets up a situation called "Baumol's cost disease." Basically, we can automate a lot of the production of a car, these days, and a lot of the production of a Big Mac, and a lot of the production of a lot of other things. So the labor cost of those things keeps going down. But you can't really automate a nurse. So relative to the price of a car or a Big Mac or whatever, the price of an hour of a nurse's time keeps going up. I mean the idea is that the price of the nurse ISN'T going up, exactly, it's just that the price of everything else is going down, so the nurse's time looks more expensive by comparison. Meanwhile wages adjust to keep pace with the price of the Big Mac, not the price of the nurse's time, so the nurse gets more and more out of reach financially for the average worker. This is not the whole reason for the rise in health care prices (which also has to do with greed, and inflexible demand, and lack of transparency, and the costs of R&D, and med school, and etc etc) but I think it's a big part of it. It also explains why college tuition and childcare keep going up relative to people's wages, and everything else which is labor intensive and not automatable.

But wait, aren't we all lamenting, in other contexts, the prospect of everyone losing their jobs due to automation?

It's been said that you can't have an economy where everyone makes a living taking in each other's laundry. But it seems to me that if you automate food production and transportation and construction and all the other stuff we're starting to automate, you can absolutely have an economy where everyone makes a living taking each other's temperature. All of us are sick (or are babies or elderly people) for lot of our lives. In between, in the times when we're healthy grown ups, maybe we make ourselves useful by caring for sick people and elderly people and babies. And that's how we earn our keep.

Why should there ever be job shortages when the demand for labor in the health care industry will always be huge? People always want to try harder and harder to save themselves and the people they love.

(The only problem is how to get the robot-owners who are producing all the food and etc. to share the stuff the robots produce with us, when our efforts as caregivers are going to each others' benefit instead of the robot owners'. The answer, I guess, is we put big taxes on the robot owners and pay everyone's salary from our single-payer healthcare system funded by those taxes...)
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:59 PM on March 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

The only "horror stories" I hear from fellow Canadians are entitled Upper Middle Class snowflakes complaining that they don't have the option of paying for a better class of care than everyone else and jump the queues.

They absolutely have this option. Just not at a public facility. They have to go to a private clinic and pay either the total or the difference out of pocket.

My brother got his hernia operated on at a private clinic because it could be done sooner, more effectively, by specialists and using a more modern surgical technique which had a better prognosis and faster recovery time.
posted by srboisvert at 2:03 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

WaPo: Trump’s split screen: A two-hour virtual conversation between the president and ‘Fox & Friends’

Aside from the relationship between Trump and the media, the two-hours thing bothers me. Aren't there tons of things competing for his attention?
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:04 PM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

American Hospital Association to Republicans: "We cannot support the American Health Care Act in its current form." (letter in a Tweet attached)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:04 PM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

Kentucky's very popular Medicaid program, Kynect, would be destroyed by the Republican bill.

Bit out of date there. Our governor murdered very popular health exchange Kynect about a year ago. It's benefind now and it kinda sucks.

(Said governor has moved on to committing manslaughter against my university, but what can you do? Bevins gonna Bevin)
posted by jackbishop at 2:04 PM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

This is very, very inside baseball, but Politico has a hit piece on Boris Epshteyn, who is responsible for dispatching White House staff to all the news shows, pissing off the TV networks both by being an ass in the green room himself and by his behavior toward network bookers: The Trump loyalist roiling network green rooms. Includes him threatening to pull all White House staff from Fox News, a threat he couldn't possibly carry out, and offending other network guests with comments about affirmative action and their clothing choices.
posted by zachlipton at 2:06 PM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

Reminder: iPhone-Shamer Jason Chaffetz Has His Healthcare Subsidized by Taxpayers (Esquire, March 7, 2017)

Of course, Mr. Chaffetz won't have to choose between that shiny new iPhone and a health insurance policy that will protect him from going bankrupt if he is hit with a serious medical condition. He has healthcare subsidized by taxpayers, and makes $174,000 a year. (President Obama once referenced a "cable bill" and "cell phone bill" in discussing how some Americans may not "prioritize healthcare because right now everybody's healthy." That, too, seems a bit much: Someone should be able to have a cell phone and go to the doctor in the world's wealthiest nation.)

And then there's this:

On Fox News, @jasoninthehouse just said that his iPhone comment wasn't made "as smoothly" as he could have.
— ErikWemple (@ErikWemple) March 7, 2017

Yes, the smoothness of your delivery was the issue here, you hypocritical twat.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:09 PM on March 7, 2017 [43 favorites]

I feel like there's a quotation somewhere about how Americans can't stand the idea that someone, somewhere got even a tiny bit more than they "deserve", but I've never been able to find it again.

I was reminded of that when reading the comment section of a NY Times article talking about the need for family leave, for diverse situations, whether taking care of a sick parent or child, or dealing with other tough family circumstances. One of the comments, which had a not insignificant number of likes, first argued persuasively that they would have really liked to have some form of paid leave available to take care of their dying mother. Then the guy immediately segued to talking about how unfair it was that women got maternity leave when having a child was completely their own choice. I just had to headdesk and think - yeah this is why America has neither good maternity leave nor good family leave for other reasons. It's like people lack empathy for other people who are in even slightly different situations from their own.
posted by peacheater at 2:09 PM on March 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

Health care, education, conservation. All fields that cannot be automated but are being gutted.
posted by archimago at 2:12 PM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

even if you have employer provided health insurance, they perform primary triage by denying your requests for care.

Yep. Our insurance, employment based, costs us $800 a month for a family of three. Two separate doctors ordered an MRI, I was told it was covered, insurance was verified, imagine my surprise at the end of the mri yesterday to discover I owed $1200. I regularly have 10k or more in uncovered medical annual expenses, and this is with the best insurance available to us. And dental coverage is a thing which does not exist in America except to cover well visits like cleanings and maybe a cavity. But, if like me you have issues because of sjogrens or lupus, well, sucks to be you. Medical doesn't cover it and dental insurance sure doesn't.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:12 PM on March 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

Did Paul Ryan intentionally sabotage his own health care plan?

Yeah, I'm invoking Betteridge's Law on this one. They're just shitty people with bad ideas, that's all there is to it.

The Senate GOP (mainly Paul) is on some kind of kick where they're trying to push a full repeal instead, but that doesn't mean Ryan et al. are coordinating with him in some kind of grand, Producers-style conspiracy. Ryan caught the car, and this is genuinely the best he could do to save face. The legislative equivalent of looking around sheepishly and then pretending you weren't actually all that interested in catching the car to begin with.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:15 PM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

can we just herd him into the town square and pelt him with iphones
posted by poffin boffin at 2:17 PM on March 7, 2017 [25 favorites]

The Cato Instituite says that under the new plan once you switch from expanded Medicaid to private insurance you can never go back onto Medicaid again. So the incentive becomes not to work or not to earn too much money because of you lose your job then there is no insurance for you. This makes no sense.
posted by SyraCarol at 2:20 PM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

None of this adds up or makes sense.
posted by erisfree at 2:22 PM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

it makes perfect sense when you realize that their goal is to harm as many people as possible while lining their own pockets and the pockets of their cronies.
posted by poffin boffin at 2:23 PM on March 7, 2017 [19 favorites]

The whole idea is that they want to kill expanded Medicaid, but even that was too politically unpopular, so they're proposing to freeze it instead and let it die through attrition. Become inelegible and you're kicked off for good, and nobody new can sign up. It works out to the same thing, just with a slower drip.
posted by zachlipton at 2:23 PM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

This health care plan feels like a big, slimy piece of bait.
posted by erisfree at 2:25 PM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

I've actually seen this dynamic pop up here (a long time ago) when someone was complaining about parents "getting" maternity leave or leave to pick up kids from school, unfairly impinging on the rest of the employees. And my response was, if you aren't getting time off, it's not the fault of your parenting coworkers but your shitty boss.

People have a hard time with that though. It's from years of being brainwashed never to think "Could the people in charge possibly have anything to do with why my life sucks? Nah, it's because That Guy is so fucking greedy."

I had an incredibly depressing conversation with my mom this weekend after we got into our 15th screaming fight about food stamps. (I love my mom, screaming fights are just our style.) I said "This is how the people at the top are able to keep screwing us all, by making people at the bottom fight each other for scraps!" She responded, "Yeah, but everyone knows they're corrupt." To her, government and/or corporations screwing the little guy is akin to a force of nature, and not worth getting upset about. I still want to strangle my mom but I have been chewing on what this means for winning people like her to our side.
posted by sunset in snow country at 2:26 PM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

Reminder: iPhone-Shamer Jason Chaffetz Has His Healthcare Subsidized by Taxpayers

Isn't bad he head of ethics or othersught or whatever? Which in Trumpy times means sitting on your hands - jobless freeloader!
posted by Artw at 2:27 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

To steer things back onto Khizr Khan, the Web tells me that he was among the lawyers who went to Dulles Airport and offer their services to travelers detained there during the first Muslim Ban rollout.

Which backs up my suspicion that what happened was a CPB staffer making a creepy comment to him about hassling him for fun, and he wants to squeeze a statement from the CBP that they would never do such a thing.

I'll bet the proverbial dollar that's what happened.
posted by ocschwar at 2:33 PM on March 7, 2017 [22 favorites]

a hit piece on Boris Epshteyn

Good. This POS has been flying under the radar since the election.

“Am I someone you want to make angry?” Epshteyn told the booker, the sources said. When he threatened to pull White House officials from the network, the fed-up booker had had enough.

Rule number one: don't piss off the gatekeepers.

From yesterday, this bears repeating:

Krugman: "the broader Republican quagmire — the party’s failure so far to make significant progress toward any of its policy promises — isn’t just about Mr. Trump’s inadequacies. The whole party, it turns out, has been faking it for years. Its leaders’ rhetoric was empty; they have no idea how to turn their slogans into actual legislation, because they’ve never bothered to understand how anything important works."
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:25 AM on March 6 (Raw Story link for NYT story)
posted by Room 641-A at 2:33 PM on March 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

american healthcare is what happens when you breed perverse incentives in a deep pit and only use the ones that manage to crawl out over the mangled bodies of their brethren

I was flipping through the channels earlier and saw some Republican douchebag on one of the business channels talking completely seriously about juicing up the "animal spirits" to solve our problems

Which, I mean, OK

Maybe let's find some healthcare solutions that aren't based on economic theory
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:33 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

you got heart procedures here that are 150 grand that in India are 15 grand.

"Is that the bullshit bistromath price or the actual negotiated price after insurance 'discounts' and holy smokes, Bratman, sounds like you're proposing a big pay cut for doctors too, so please mention that during your next colonoscopy."
posted by holgate at 2:35 PM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Devin Nunes just chastised press for taking Trump literally w/Obama accusation

Yes—he's POTUS. He accused fmr POTUS of committing a felony.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 2:36 PM on March 7, 2017 [18 favorites]

Haven't seen this yet. Trump met with Russian Ambassador Kislyak five months before election. Two days later, Wikileaks released the DNC hacked emails.

And we have the single news item that Dems should bring up on the floor of the House and Senate every single day.

What did the President know? When did the President know it? What did the President promise for the DNC emails?
posted by Slackermagee at 2:42 PM on March 7, 2017 [41 favorites]

If you can't afford a doctor, go to the emergency room.
It must be noted that President Reagan brought about a law forcing emergency rooms to take anybody. Before that, it was even scarier.

Just yesterday I read this ProPublica piece: Despite Federal Law, Some Rural Hospitals Still Turn Away Women in Labor

Under the federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, or EMTALA, every U.S. hospital with an emergency room has a duty to treat patients who arrive in labor, caring for them at least until the delivery of the placenta after a baby is born.

But 30 years after EMTALA was passed, hospitals — particularly those in rural areas without obstetrics units — are still turning away women in labor.

A review of federal inspection reports shows that at least 20 rural hospitals around the country have been found in violation of EMTALA over the last five years — including Jewish Hospital Shelbyville. In several cases, women suffered serious complications after being turned away, or were misdiagnosed at facilities that lacked specialists in obstetrics.

The cruelest thing about this is not only do they turn the women away, they don't even call for an ambulance to take the women to a hospital where they can be seen. Often these women in labor have to go find a grocery store or other place with a phone and call themselves. One woman with preeclampsia lost her baby and then died after being turned away.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:54 PM on March 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

It would be considered by anyone who wasn't beyond the reach of science, logic and ordinary human feeling.

Ah, so you're as optimistic as I am that said letter will get through to many of the state senators, then.

(Actually, there's some hope on SB 6--it's unpopular enough especially with North Carolina's example that it's likely to die in committee, although I personally will not breathe easy until it is dead. Especially since it's the Lt. Governor's ~~screaming unholy voidbrood spawn~~ baby that he's been cosseting along for like a year now.

On the upside, 430 people signed up to testify before 2pm, when signups closed. I haven't yet seen the registration numbers for written testimonies, which is what I dropped off, or people who turned up to register their position, which is what I've done up till now.

And my own state senator, Kirk Watson, is actually trustworthy and just emailed us all a letter encouraging us to come and testify and cheering on all the civic engagement he's seeing. He did inexplicably request that we not try to testify via interpretive dance, though. Shame--that was going to be my next tactic down at the courtroom!)
posted by sciatrix at 2:59 PM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

Reminder: iPhone-Shamer Jason Chaffetz Has His Healthcare Subsidized by Taxpayers

And his iPhone is paid for by his donors.
posted by Tenuki at 2:59 PM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

One woman with preeclampsia lost her baby and then died after being turned away.

That would be straight up murder.
posted by Artw at 3:00 PM on March 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

I've told this story before, I think. My mother, who was not very well to begin with, came to visit us in Italy for Christmas one year. She ended up needing a visit to the emergency room, a hospital stay, and some follow-up visits with a cardiologist.

My mother was a Nixon Republican (despite being working class and in not-great financial shape, ever), who had bought the usual line about "socialized medicine." When her friends back home found out she was ill, they sent terrified faxes (this was the 90s) trying to get her home for "better medical care."

Reader, my mother LOVED her Italian hospital experience, at least as much as someone with congestive heart failure (who died a couple months later) can.

She was amazed that there was no issue about what tests would or would not be allowed: she got the tests she needed. Same with medications, and specialist visits. The nurses were attentive and practiced their English on her and thought she was a hoot (she was). Best of all, she ended up paying something like $50 for four or five nights in the hospital, her follow-up care, medications, everything. When she was finally able to go home, she had become an evangelist for socialism.

My ex-mother-in-law died last year of cancer, and she had in-home care and a very nice private hospice room at the end, all free or close to it. The pain and suffering of those of us who loved her was bad enough without also having to worry about going bankrupt.

The system here in the U.S. is unnecessarily cruel and onerous. We still have the ethos of the Calvinists weighing us down.
posted by Superplin at 3:02 PM on March 7, 2017 [80 favorites]

Could be a bit of a problem. Breitbart is not having the new healthcare plan one bit (link to tweet, since I'm not linking to Breitbart). That's the plan Trump called "Our wonderful new Healthcare Bill" this morning.
posted by zachlipton at 3:04 PM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

Haven't seen this yet. Trump met with Russian Ambassador Kislyak five months before election. Two days later, Wikileaks released the DNC hacked emails.

Trump did not meet with Kislyak, the aide (Jeffrey "JD" Gordon) met with Kislyak.
posted by Candleman at 3:05 PM on March 7, 2017

Man, assuming they are not all angling for keeping ACA without getting primaried, a healthcare policy all these ghoulish fuckers actually did want would be horrific.
posted by Artw at 3:08 PM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

From the Wall Street Journal, Candleman

A few minutes before he made those remarks, Mr. Trump met at a VIP reception with Russia’s ambassador to the U.S., Sergey Ivanovich Kislyak. Mr. Trump warmly greeted Mr. Kislyak and three other foreign ambassadors who came to the reception.

posted by Freon at 3:08 PM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

Could be a bit of a problem. Breitbart is not having the new healthcare plan one bit

Nazis are pretty keen on socialised medicine.
posted by PenDevil at 3:10 PM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

a healthcare policy all these ghoulish fuckers actually did want would be horrific.

I'm thinking a shotgun and "time to go behind the barn" would pretty much sum it up.
posted by valkane at 3:11 PM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Yes, to be clear, Trump met with Kislyak in April, while the hacks were still going on. Gordon and Sessions met with Kislyak at the convention, two days before the hacked emails were released.

I guess he liked what he heard.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:11 PM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

Koch brothers are against the bill.
posted by zabuni at 3:14 PM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

The fact that the GOP's unholy alliance with industry is the only thing preventing the Nazis from offering lots of free benefits to the right white people and thus shoring up support for actual Nazism is some kind of fucking irony. I mean, really. The Kochs' perpetual boner for making the poor suffer is right now one of our best defenses against actual Nazis.

2017 writers: the same as 2016's writers, only with more cocaine
posted by schadenfrau at 3:17 PM on March 7, 2017 [30 favorites]

Clearly, with all the right wing media, pundits and donors lining up against this new Health Care Bill, the macericky thing to do would be to pass it.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:18 PM on March 7, 2017

So, is Trump pissed at everyone now? Is anyone besides staff positive about this?

At every town hall with people like Chaffitz people need to ask their congressperson, Who is paying for his/her health insurance? Make them say it out loud and on the record.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:18 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

"Mavericky" The word I meant was "mavericky."
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:24 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

We were told that there would be taco trucks on every corner if Trump didn't win. And now they're making good on that by taking away the taco trucks and the people who run them. Piro's Taco Trucks Are Beloved. Now He's Facing Deportation
posted by zachlipton at 3:25 PM on March 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

some Republican douchebag on one of the business channels talking completely seriously about juicing up the "animal spirits" to solve our problems

Or as Krugman refers to it, the "confidence fairy."
posted by diogenes at 3:25 PM on March 7, 2017

AARP has a video out featuring a man and his squirrel friend and why old people should call their Congresscritters (about the age-rating portion).
posted by emjaybee at 3:27 PM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

One woman with preeclampsia lost her baby and then died after being turned away.

Hey, maybe some Fetus First types could take time off from protesting places that actually provide reproductive care and volunteer to accompany such women to hospitals and demand admission, because Fetal Lives Matter, right?
posted by Fish, fish, are you doing your duty? at 3:27 PM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

At every town hall with people like Chaffitz people need to ask their congressperson, Who is paying for his/her health insurance? Make them say it out loud and on the record.

In a worldview where only work entitles you to basic human dignity, the wealthy and powerful should naturally pay less for these things. Admitting that we are paying for their healthcare only solidifies the idea that our congresspeople are our betters.
posted by uncleozzy at 3:28 PM on March 7, 2017

Gaps in Health Coverage Can Be Deadly: The GOP’s plan is likely to cause interrupted care for many Americans. I’ve seen what happens to those patients.

"When was the last time that a president of the United States deliberately put so many Americans in harm’s way?"
posted by homunculus at 3:30 PM on March 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

I'm finally reading the epic New Yorker article about Russian hacking that was mentioned way upthread (or maybe previous threads, who knows).

This jumped out at me:

After viewing the classified materials, Mark Warner, of Virginia, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, said of the Russia investigation, “This may very well be the most important thing I do in my public life.”
posted by diogenes at 3:30 PM on March 7, 2017 [47 favorites]

AARP has a video out featuring a man and his squirrel friend and why old people should call their Congresscritters (about the age-rating portion).

Some all around help would be nice. Of course one suspects that the initial plan was to fuck over the young whilst buying off the old and they fucked it up somehow.
posted by Artw at 3:35 PM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Is there a roundup of right-wing or healthcare-related people/organizations opposing (or at least extremely sketpical of) the current AHCA bill? I have:

Breitbart
AARP
American Hospital Association
Koch Brothers
Cato Institute
House Freedom Caucus (aka the Tea Party faction)
A bunch of Republican senators, including Lee (R-UT), Murkowski (R-AK), Portman (R-OH), and Paul (R-KY)

Did I miss anyone? Has the insurance industry weighed in yet? They've been pretty quiet so far, I think. Sure, the House'll have a chance to re-draft but, man, I have the feeling this might get messy.
posted by mhum at 3:36 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Mr. Trump warmly greeted Mr. Kislyak and three other foreign ambassadors who came to the reception.

to be clear, Trump met with Kislyak in April

That is not a meeting and to conflate greeting someone at a reception with one is dangerous because it gives wings to the "liberals spread fake news" arguments. Greeting an ambassador from a country at a think tank that specializes in US-that country relationships is unexceptional. As it's been noted, many Democrats including Obama have shaken his hand.

Politicians meet in public with ambassadors and act nice towards them, that's routine. If there's proof he did anything other than smile and shake Kislyak's hand, that's something to be excited about. Otherwise, save the outrage for things that actually are important or that can be proven.
posted by Candleman at 3:38 PM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

Sure, the House'll have a chance to re-draft but, man, I have the feeling this might get messy.

Well that's what happens when you design your healthcare policy positions around, "How do we fuck over our new black president?"
posted by leotrotsky at 3:39 PM on March 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

Trump, Russian billionaire say they’ve never met, but their jets did — in Charlotte

Who was aboard Dmitry Rybolovlev’s luxurious jet and whether the planes’ near-simultaneous arrival facilitated another previously undisclosed Russian contact with Trump, his family or campaign associates remain unanswered questions.

The White House dismisses the matter as conspiratorial. A spokesman for Rybolovlev declined to say why he was in Charlotte. But their jets shared the tarmac at Charlotte for several hours before Trump left for a 7 p.m. rally near Raleigh on the same day.

Trump and Rybolovlev, however, agree on this: They say they have never met, although Trump sold a Palm Beach mansion to the Russian fertilizer magnate for $95 million eight years earlier. Rybolovlev recently bulldozed the mansion and is selling the oceanfront property.

The proximity of their intersecting flights, coupled with evidence that Rybolovlev’s plane was also in Las Vegas briefly on the same day as Trump, Oct. 30, has fueled internet plots.
posted by futz at 3:41 PM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

As it's been noted, many Democrats including Obama have shaken his hand.

Obama hasn't tried to cover that up. Nor has anybody else except everybody in the fucking Trump administration.

Otherwise, save the outrage for things that actually are important or that can be proven.

Nobody would care about it if Trump and his cronies didn't keep trying to cover it up. That's the important part.
posted by Celsius1414 at 3:43 PM on March 7, 2017 [33 favorites]

Otherwise, save the outrage for things that actually are important or that can be proven

I am far from outraged. It is yet another interesting possible piece of the puzzle. Why all the lying?
posted by futz at 3:47 PM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

U.S. moves missile equipment to S. Korea; angry China vows ‘necessary measures’
Anybody see this yet? Fuuuuuuuuu......
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:47 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

mhum: "Did I miss anyone?"

It looks like I missed a bunch. From this Vox article, Heritage Action, FreedomWorks, the Club for Growth, Americans for Prosperity, and Freedom Partners are also in opposition to the AHCA. So basically, a boatload of the major conservative think-tank/lobby groups have lined up against it for being not brutally conservative enough (naturally).
posted by mhum at 3:51 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

U.S. moves missile equipment to S. Korea; angry China vows ‘necessary measures’

THAAD: great for escalating regional tensions, not yet proven to be great at actually intercepting missiles
posted by Existential Dread at 3:55 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

3h
Ann Coulter‏ @AnnCoulter
Who wrote this piece of crap Obamacare replacement bill? Please be specific.

3h
Ann Coulter‏ @AnnCoulter
I have to give full identifying info as each health ins co goes bankrupt. What are names of the brain trust that wrote this piece of crap?

3h
Ann Coulter‏ @AnnCoulter
Also, I would like every person involved in the writing of this Obamacare replacement POS to take a ten-minute IQ test. Transparency!

[real]
posted by Sys Rq at 3:57 PM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

2017 writers: the same as 2016's writers, only with more cocaine

Over the weekend the Washington Post had a story headlined American cocaine use is way up and my first thought was to blame Steve Bannon.
posted by peeedro at 3:58 PM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

Trump, Russian billionaire say they’ve never met, but their jets did — in Charlotte

Trying to track various planes with Russians on them that came into proximity of Trump's plane is a sure path to madness. I'm not saying there's nothing there. I just think we have to assume that the intelligence agencies are good enough to chase that thread. Crowdsourcing it is going to go badly.
posted by diogenes at 3:58 PM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

You ever see two people you really dislike fight and not know who to root for because they both want to take away your health insurance but they disagree about how hard to screw you over? Probably not, but you have now.

From Breitbart: Sean Spicer Inaccurately Claims Paul Ryan’s Health Care Bill ‘Fully’ Repeals Obamacare (archived link):

Spicer, reached by phone on Tuesday afternoon, told Breitbart News, “I don’t care” when told this bill does not constitute a full Obamacare repeal.

“I don’t care. Again, that’s your—that’s not what the president thinks. That’s not what Tom Price thinks. That’s not what Mick Mulvaney thinks. So, say what you will, but that’s the reality of this,” Spicer said.

The base will not be satisfied until every last trace of the ACA is gone, because Obama. The Senate won't pass the thing unless the Medicare expansion still exists. This is so screwed up.
posted by zachlipton at 3:58 PM on March 7, 2017 [17 favorites]

Consider the case of Rand Paul. Kentucky's very popular Medicaid program, Kynect, would be destroyed by the Republican bill. So attacking the bill from the nominal right while allowing Kynect to live would be the least bad option for Paul.

I hate to circle back around, but I keep seeing KYnect mentioned in these health care articles, by respected national writers!, and podcast hosts!, but KYnect is already dead. Teaparty Governor Matt Bevin killed it. It was the first thing he did as governor of Kentucky, after running explicitly on almost nothing else except anti-Obamacare, and explicitly killing KYnect, by name. Kentucky still has access to the basic federal exchange, but all of the state based implementation and national award winning outreach model that was KYnect, that's all dead. Everyone working on it was fired.

Kentucky is not the model of ObamaCare implementation anymore, it's a cautionary tale of what Republicans are trying to take national, ripping out healthcare root and branch, while telling voters that's exactly what they planned on doing, and winning anyway.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:59 PM on March 7, 2017 [56 favorites]

Greta van Susteren just closed her show on MSNBC talking about the fact that we need stricter gun laws for people who have mental health issues.

Today is a good day.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:00 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Tea Party: BURN IT ALL DOWN. BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!11!
Insurers: Uh, yeah we don't want that it's bad for business.
Everyone else: We would like not to die you assholes.
Tea Party: BLOOOOOOODDD!!!!
Congress: .... what about just a little blood?
Trump: Haha no blood or maybe just a little or maybe a lot, it'll be great! MAGA!
Tea Party: ***rips off own face meat, howls to the sky, froths***
Putin: I feel like I should be happy about your meltdown but you freaks are kind of unnerving, even to me?
Rest of World: Guys I think we're on our own here.
posted by emjaybee at 4:01 PM on March 7, 2017 [71 favorites]

Trying to track various planes with Russians on them that came into proximity of Trump's plane is a sure path to madness.

FlightAware, where Russia investigations and college football loonies collide!
posted by Existential Dread at 4:02 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

The base will not be satisfied until every last trace of the ACA is gone,

One (maybe falsely) encouraging thing to me is that judging by the reaction at the town halls, "the base" seems to be slightly smaller than two months ago. Same thing every time some town's favorite Mexican food proprietor (eye roll, but still) gets hassled or deported.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:09 PM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

AARP has a video out featuring a man and his squirrel friend and why old people should call their Congresscritters (about the age-rating portion).
Well, I'm glad they're fighting it, but I"m not sure I'd want to take advice from a guy who listens to a stuffed squirrel.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:12 PM on March 7, 2017

> It's kind of amazing that Ryan isn't even pretending that this bill will expand access to healthcare.

ideologue
noun ideo·logue \ˈī-dē-ə-ˌlȯg, -ˌläg\

Definition of ideologue:
1: an impractical idealist : theorist
2: an often blindly partisan advocate or adherent of a particular ideology

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ideologue

So...yeah. "Expand access to healthcare" - that ain't what gets Paul Ryan out of bed in the morning, all bright and shiny and ready to face the day.
posted by mosk at 4:13 PM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Imagine waking up each and every day with the paralyzing fear that somewhere, a billionaire is paying too much taxes.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:16 PM on March 7, 2017 [33 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump

I feel sure that my friend @RandPaul will come along with the new and great health care program because he knows Obamacare is a disaster!

I, uh, don't know what to make of this. Are we team Breitbart now?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:22 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

"When was the last time that a president of the United States deliberately put so many Americans in harm’s way?"

2003.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:23 PM on March 7, 2017 [36 favorites]

Imagine waking up each and every day with the paralyzing fear that...

I really thought the end of that sentence was going to be "...you are Paul Ryan".
posted by just_ducky at 4:24 PM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

Well this AHCA rollout is progressing splendidly.
posted by notyou at 4:25 PM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Well this AHCA rollout is progressing splendidly.

hashtag welloiledmachine
posted by OHenryPacey at 4:27 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Whoo boy. You gotta read this CNN article. Trump is all in on this mess.

Trump warns House GOP members of electoral 'bloodbath' if repeal and replace fails
posted by diogenes at 4:27 PM on March 7, 2017 [26 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump

I feel sure that my friend @RandPaul will come along with the new and great health care program because he knows Obamacare is a disaster!

11 hours ago:
Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump
Our wonderful new Healthcare Bill is now out for review and negotiation. ObamaCare is a complete and total disaster - is imploding fast!
posted by Room 641-A at 4:27 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

The Week article on Ryan is basically correct -- Ryan neither expects, nor really wants, this to pass. Ryan's whole schtick has been the "wonky," reasonable right-wing Republican. Not a centrist, but a principled right-winger. This is basically a lie, of course -- Krugman has decried Ryan's "magic asterisks" for quite a few years now. But Ryan is not an idiot, and at least knows how to count votes. He knows that (a) any bill he offers will have almost no chance of passing the Senate, and (b) anything good enough to satisfy his base would be electorally catastrophic by dramatically killing thousands of people and upsetting millions of others, many of whom are those hypocritical Republican-voting Obamacare users. But that's the way it's always been with him: from the beginning, the Ryan budget has relied on magic asterisks because it wasn't actually intended to pass (though if it did it wouldn't be the end of the world for Ryan because it would just involve trillions of additional debt, which of course Republicans don't actually care about). Fundamentally, his budget, like all his bills, are not meant to be implemented, but as electoral tools. That's like many bills, of course, but Ryan's style is a bit different: rather than red meat bills you can rant about Democrats blocking, Ryan specializes in "reasonable"-but-conservative bills that bolster his reputation as the smart right-wing leader (which has paid off very well for him). This is another of a long line of such bills from him.

The problem he's run into, alas, is that his team isn't playing along. I'm sure this is very frustrating to him, and he would like to say behind closed doors, "Listen, guys, this isn't meant to pass! It's meant to be blocked by Democrats and a couple Republicans in the Senate, so we can say we tried to repeal, but were once again blocked by those damn Democrats. So don't block it now, that screws up the whole plan!"

But of course the response is, "Well, in that case, why don't we just pass full repeal, if it's going to be blocked anyway, and then we get full credit with the base?"

And Ryan's response is, unfortunately for him, not terribly convincing: "Because I have a reputation as being "reasonable" and wonkish, so I can't pass any old junk and preserve my reputation as the reasonable wonk."

Alas for him, the response to that is, "Why do we give a crap about your reputation?"

So Ryan is stuck trying it anyway, with the usual fall-back that he can at least blame the crazy right-wingers, as he so often does as speaker. But while that might work on smaller issues, it's really not going to fly with this one, since the "crazy right-wingers" are unfortunately for Ryan the vast majority of the right half of America now.

The upshot is probably a series of progressively more crazy bills that Ryan progressively more publicly disavows, until eventually maybe one passes out of the House in order to be roundly rejected by the Senate. Whether Ryan can hold onto the speakership through all this is not something we care about, but I suppose as long as he does first the "reasonable" bill that is rejected by the right, followed by the crazy repeal that is rejected by the left and center, he might be able to satisfy enough in his party to hang on. But in any case, passing a bill is not really the goal of this game for him, or indeed for many elected Republicans.
posted by chortly at 4:29 PM on March 7, 2017 [19 favorites]

i would accept no healthcare for anyone if instead we got to see full on gladiatorial combat on the senate floor, only the dems get weapons, sometimes a tiger is released, the tiger is preemptively angered by bees
posted by poffin boffin at 4:29 PM on March 7, 2017 [29 favorites]

What's disastrous for them is that people like having coverage under ACA.
posted by thelonius at 4:29 PM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

Trump truly doesn't understand that the plan is shit and can only be shit.
posted by diogenes at 4:31 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

also we could flood the senate for naval battles, only the dems get boats, there's a kraken
posted by poffin boffin at 4:31 PM on March 7, 2017 [39 favorites]

Despite what Ryan says this bill does not lower health care costs, it's simply pushes the cost from the government to the individual.
posted by SyraCarol at 4:31 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump believes his Twitter account can be used to rile up the base and get them to bully members of Congress into going along with his agenda, and thinks that's what he just did by calling out Rand Paul, but I suspect that trick might not work so well when Breitbart is whipping the same base against the bill.
posted by zachlipton at 4:35 PM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

This is what you get when everyone in power is a lying sack of shit.
posted by valkane at 4:36 PM on March 7, 2017 [33 favorites]

NYT Op-Ed: Gavin Grimm: The Fight for Transgender Rights Is Bigger Than Me: "I am often asked if I regret my actions, or if I would do anything differently if I had the chance. When people ask that, I immediately think about the hundreds of parents who have reached out to thank me on behalf of their children. I think of the hundreds of young people who have thanked me themselves. I think of the countless #StandWithGavin messages on social media, and the countless hugs and handshakes at school and on the sidewalks of my town. I think of people I’ve gotten to meet and grown to love. I think of how honored I am to carry the voice, in some way, of a community so rich and so colorful and so important. I think of how I’ve grown from that 15-year-old child, sitting in fear as he waits to hear what his future will be, into the young man who stands hand in hand with a huge community as we all prepare to take the next step in this fight. I think of my parents, unwavering and strong as pillars in my success and growth. And I say, “Absolutely not.”
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:37 PM on March 7, 2017 [50 favorites]

I wouldn't want to be a host on Fox and Friends tomorrow.
posted by diogenes at 4:38 PM on March 7, 2017

In a universe where Trump had two brain cells to rub together, I'd wager the whole doubling-down on this shit sandwich of an ACA replacement would be his gambit to get out of dodge now that Russian hearings are set: The bill fails, he has a twitter meltdown about how all us "idiots don't deserve his brilliance" as he Atlas Shrugs off the Presidency with a resignation followed by fucking off to a non-extradition country on the quick.

But he's a man-baby with no object permanence , let alone impulse control, so I think the whole thing is just face value narcissist bullshit. He honestly thinks it's the best because it's his, and anyone who says otherwise is just jealous of him and his success.

What a fucking tool.
posted by Freon at 4:41 PM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

Bummed that I can't get video for Lieu's fb town hall to work.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:45 PM on March 7, 2017

I feel like there's a quotation somewhere about how Americans can't stand the idea that someone, somewhere got even a tiny bit more than they "deserve", but I've never been able to find it again.

Millions of Americans would rather die in the poorhouse than go to bed at night knowing that someone, somewhere is receiving something they helped pay for.
posted to MetaFilter by Stonewall Jackson at 10:26 AM on July 8, 2009
posted by photoslob at 4:46 PM on March 7, 2017 [53 favorites]

Whoo boy. You gotta read this CNN article. Trump is all in on this mess.

Trump warns House GOP members of electoral 'bloodbath' if repeal and replace fails

CACKLING INTENSIFIES
posted by schadenfrau at 4:50 PM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

Nazis are pretty keen on socialised medicine.

Wrong, Nazis are in favor of good health and healthcare for the in-group. The problem with ACA is that it provides healthcare for all, and not just the people with the right blood. In Nazi Germany, undesirables were rounded up and killed, so that Germans could have public goods, not "others."
posted by cell divide at 4:52 PM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

He honestly thinks it's the best because it's his, and anyone who says otherwise is just jealous of him and his success.

I agree with you about this - but... how? From what I've seen, his plan had literally nothing to do with him, nothing to do with his Sec of HHS, nothing to do with his administration at all. He. Had. No. Plan. How can he not see that whatever this mess of a plan is, what it isn't is anything he promised it would be? Are his sycophants just telling him that it's his plan, that somehow Congress wrote up just what he asked for? If so, how does that square with how so many Republicans are suddenly all balking at it?

I'm not asking for the facts - I'm asking for how a so-called leader can be that level of deranged, that he doesn't realize that if he didn't give Congress a plan to implement, whatever they implement won't be his plan?
posted by Mchelly at 4:52 PM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Mchelly, Trump's entire life has literally consisted of him putting his name on other people's work.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:55 PM on March 7, 2017 [46 favorites]

I'm asking for how a so-called leader can be that level of deranged, that he doesn't realize that if he didn't give Congress a plan to implement, whatever they implement won't be his plan?

Because narcissism is a helluva a drug.
posted by mosk at 4:57 PM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

He's calling it the House of Representatives' plan (at least in the CNN story linked above). But he's all-in, and letting everyone know -- or making threats -- that they won't get another shot at this, and if this fails, they all go down in 2018. It's an effort to whip up votes via TINA and fear.
posted by notyou at 4:58 PM on March 7, 2017

Heck, they broadcast last week this was their plan (going for a quick vote on whatever or anything called Replace and Repeal). I guess we'll see if they can pull it together in the face of so much conservative opposition outside the House.
posted by notyou at 5:01 PM on March 7, 2017

wtf is TINA?
posted by yoga at 5:02 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Sorry. There Is No Alternative. Reference to Margaret Thatcher.
posted by notyou at 5:04 PM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Tweet from VP Pence:

My message to GOP Senate: If you like ObamaCare, you can keep it, but people want change & fact is ObamaCare must go.

I can't make heads or tails of this.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:07 PM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

TINA = "There Is No Alternative"
posted by mosk at 5:08 PM on March 7, 2017

Pence is telling wobbly GOP senators that either they are with the plan as presented last night or they are with Obama. There Is No Alternative.
posted by notyou at 5:09 PM on March 7, 2017

Oh, and since no one has posted this little nugget yet:

The actual name of RyanDontCare?

It is, literally, H.R.1275 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): World's Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017

What a collection of assholes.
posted by Freon at 5:09 PM on March 7, 2017 [85 favorites]

Pence threats read like angry notes from the janitorial staff.
posted by valkane at 5:10 PM on March 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

I can't make heads or tails of this.

He's putting pressure on the GOP Senate with a code word signal that they used to play gotcha with Obama for years, "if you like your plan, you can keep it". He's telling the GOP Senate holdouts that the Trump administration will blame them fully if the replacement is blocked in the Senate.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:10 PM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Well, at least they admit they won't be doing another one.
posted by flatluigi at 5:10 PM on March 7, 2017

Well, it *is* the greatest healthcare plan of 2017, so far.
posted by uosuaq at 5:12 PM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

i nominate poffin boffin as metafilter anger translator
posted by localhuman at 5:13 PM on March 7, 2017 [40 favorites]

This will be a good test to see if the God Emperor's loyal subjects will rally to hungrily devour a shit sandwich (which the God Emperor claims is delicious well done steak with catsup) that people they purportedly respected as recently as yesterday tell them it is a shit sandwich.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:14 PM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

The Rude Pundit: Donald Trump Taught Me That My Hatred Has No End
posted by homunculus at 5:17 PM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

So basically people really need to hammer on the wobbly/vulnerable Republican senators.

I think this is going to be make-or-break for the GOP because it will either mean getting all the GOP back into lockstep or it will start a series of breaks with Trump, etc. This is so fucking huge and we have got to win. Trump et al are dumb as shit - they're forcing a confrontation on the worst possible terrain for them. That doesn't mean they'll lose, but it makes it a hell of a lot more likely.

Good lord we have to get people hammering on those senators.
posted by Frowner at 5:18 PM on March 7, 2017 [33 favorites]

As you know, you vote on the plan you have, not the plan you might want or wish to have at a later time. It isn't like they had 7 or 8 years to cook up something better.
posted by mosk at 5:19 PM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

I have a hammer I don't use much, if anyone needs one...
posted by uosuaq at 5:19 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

It is, literally, H.R.1275 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): World's Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017

That's a different bill. The World's Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017 is the thing Pete Sessions keeps introducing. It's a lot like The World’s Greatest Healthcare Plan Act of 2016. It basically involves killing the mandates and a flat $2,500/year tax credit ($1,500 for children) to buy insurance, promoting health savings accounts, and removing the minimum requirements for what health plans have to cover, but keeps the Medicaid expansion while turning it into a block grant to states.

In short, a bit different from the Ryan plan, but $2,500/year for everyone is even less generous and woefully inadequate.
posted by zachlipton at 5:20 PM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

But he's a man-baby with no object permanence

You mean...we could end all this kerfuffle with a towel-handling robot with a smiley face drawn on?
posted by Sparx at 5:20 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

What's disastrous for them [Republicans] is that people like having coverage under ACA.

But what makes it difficult for Democrats is that the "people" directly affected in this case is only about 7% of the population. For everyone else the ACA is simply a political hobby horse they can rant about because it doesn't affect them directly. And because it doesn't affect them directly they can make up all sorts of lies about how bad it is.

Now that 7% is only the number of people enrolled in the ACA or expanded Medicaid at any one time. There is a much larger number of people who move in and out as they move from job to job or unemployed to employed. Or from starting a new business to permanently establishing their business. Or people who hope to retire or go part time before they are 65. The point being that the great majority of people might be expected to benefit from the ACA sometime in their life, but whether they recognize that possibility is questionable without a better sales and PR campaign by Democrats.
posted by JackFlash at 5:21 PM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

People like to trot out how it takes so long to get scans or elective-type surgeries in Canada which can be done in an instant in the USA. That hasn't been my experience and here is a recent example from my life.

On February 22 my mom said that she was feeling dizzy. She went to lie down for a bit but wasn't feeling any better after a couple of hours. As I was not sure what the appropriate course of action was I called Telehealth. The person on the phone took down my mom's information and asked me to hold until a nurse could come on the line. After about 15-20 minutes on hold a nurse came and asked my mom some questions (how she was feeling, medications she was on, etc). After speaking with my mom for about 10 minutes she said that we should get her to the nearest ER.

I drove her to the ER where they registered her and did their own initial evaluation. After some time a physician came by and examined my mom. He sent her for a CT scan. She went for the scan and came back and the scan went out to a neurologist. I had to go to work so my wife came and took over. From what I understand they were just monitoring her to see how she was doing and towards the end of the day the attending physician was able to consult with the neurologist to determine what the next steps would be. By the time I got back to the hospital after work the physician was just going over these steps with my mom and then she was discharged. She was in the hospital for something like 8 hours that day.

The next day they called to schedule an MRI for the following Monday (February 27) but the timing conflicted with my wife's schedule and my mom didn't want to take a taxi so we set it for the Saturday after that (March 4). On the day I dropped her off at the hospital, ran some errands and then came to get her when she was done. Once the neurologist reviews the results she'll be called in for an appointment with them. That hasn't happened yet but likely will in the next few days, depending on what they find I guess.

As far as I can tell, the only real urgency was in the beginning when they wanted to make sure my mom wasn't having a stroke. All the stuff after that is just them trying to figure out what the issue actually is. Even still she got a CT scan within a couple of hours and her MRI was initially scheduled within less than a week. All this for someone who is 80 years old. The only things that we had to pay for out of pocket was parking at the hospital and some food from the Tim Horton's in the hospital, everything else was 100% covered by OHIP (the Ontario Health Insurance Plan). My mom has extended health coverage through her union but it wasn't needed for any of this.

This is all in a system that pays doctors pretty well (my brother's a doctor and he's doing all right) and still costs significantly less per capita than in the USA. I really don't get it, there are tons of examples around the world for how to efficiently pay for universal health care, but for some reason the best you guys could come up with was the ACA, and even that is now being repealed in favour of something less effective.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:21 PM on March 7, 2017 [53 favorites]

"This will be a plan where you can choose your doctor. This will be a plan where you can choose your plan. (Laughter.) And you know what the plan is -- this is the plan. And we're going to have a tremendous -- I think we're going to have a tremendous success. It's a complicated process, but actually it's very simple. It's called good healthcare."

Ladies and Gentlemen, The President of the United States!
posted by contraption at 5:21 PM on March 7, 2017 [13 favorites]

The Rude Pundit: Donald Trump Taught Me That My Hatred Has No End

The Rude Pundit gets me on a deep, visceral level. I feel we are kindred spirits united by deep hate.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:22 PM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

But what makes it difficult for Democrats is that the "people" directly affected in this case is only about 7% of the population. For everyone else the ACA is simply a political hobby horse they can rant about because it doesn't affect them directly. And because it doesn't affect them directly they can make up all sorts of lies about how bad it is.

Yeah, no. This is false. It may be that only 7% of all Americans have insurance that is provided by the individual marketplaces and the Medicaid expansion, but many, many more people benefited. For instance, many people benefited from the ACA's mandate that insurance policies not have lifetime limits on how much a policy would pay out. Many women benefited from the requirement that all policies cover contraception and a variety of women's health services. Many young people benefited from the requirement that people be able to get insurance on their parents' plans until they're 26. People with mental illness benefited from the provision that required parity between coverage for mental and physical health treatment. People with pre-existing conditions used to have trouble changing jobs, because their new insurance could exempt their preexisting conditions for up to a year. After the ACA, that wasn't legal anymore. There are just a whole lot of provisions that apply to all people who use insurance, not just people who have individual policies.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:37 PM on March 7, 2017 [52 favorites]

I don't even know what to root for. If they don't pass this mess, they will handicap the ACA until it fails, it will be a disaster, and they can blame Obama. If they do pass it, it will be a disaster, but at least they will own it. Either way people will suffer. But wouldn't it be better if the Republicans couldn't shift the blame?

Yep. This is my primary concern. If every person gets access to the care that they need at either free at point of use or a price they can reasonably afford I couldn't give a flying fuck if Satan himself wrote the bill.

But the bill proposed is certainly not a bill that will enable everyone to get access to the care that they need.
posted by Talez at 5:37 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Exclusive: Mexico cancels sugar export permits to U.S. in trade dispute

The really crazy part:

The Economy Ministry decided to cancel the permits since it has no counterparts at the U.S. Department of Commerce to resolve the issue, the document said. Mill owners should consider legally challenging the decision, it said.

Staff positions remain unfilled in several U.S. government departments, a situation Mexican officials say has made it difficult to negotiate trade issues. A spokesman for the U.S. Department of Commerce did not respond immediately to a request for comment.

Mexico is now calling out Trump for not bothering to staff the Commerce Department.
posted by zachlipton at 5:39 PM on March 7, 2017 [101 favorites]

He doesn't have time to staff the Commerce Department to negotiate trade disputes, but does have an hour for the founder of TMZ in the Oval Office.
posted by zachlipton at 5:42 PM on March 7, 2017 [19 favorites]

I don't even know what to root for.

I'm inclined to go with "whatever makes Trump look more like a pathetic failure," which, given that Trump has put his full support behind the bill, would mean rooting for the Republican-controlled Congress to debate it for a while, hopefully with enough time for Democrats to point out all the obvious, gaping holes in it, then for it to be summarily slapped down.

People have an increasingly positive opinion of the ACA right now, and while I'm sure Trump et al will try to claim it was doomed to implode anyway, their own credibility is sliding ever downward, and an embattled-but-still-technically-on-the-books ACA seems like a pretty great basis for a massive wave of successful 2018 congressional campaigns by Democrats calling for actually reasonable reforms and improvements. Of course they'll try to shift the narrative, but we don't have to let them.
posted by contraption at 5:43 PM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

Additionally, the ACHA bill would end up causing a lot of people WITH employer provided healthcare to lose coverage, which the Dems should hammer on.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:44 PM on March 7, 2017 [11 favorites]

But wouldn't it be better if the Republicans couldn't shift the blame?

We're not going to let them get away with this shit anymore.

Ive been trying process this, and im not done. But it feels like they've woken a sleeping dragon. They've gone too far on so many axes -- racism, healthcare, fucking treason -- and now so many of us are waking up and getting active. 27% can dominate the conversation when most people don't bother to show up, but we're showing up now. And they're not quite as motivated now that they've won.

I'm going to go donate to the Dem in the Georgia 6th.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:47 PM on March 7, 2017 [38 favorites]

Oh, speaking of the GA-6 race:

A new Trafalgar Group poll in Georgia’s 6th congressional district finds Jon Ossoff (D) and Karen Handel (R) leading the special election field at 18%. They are followed by Bob Gray (R) at 13%, Judson Hill (R) at 8%, Amy Kremer (R) at 3% and Ron Slotkin (D) at 2%.

This is one of those "jungle primaries," so the two top vote getters on April 11 will advance to a second round on June 20.

Ossoff looks pretty good to advance, but actually winning will be harder. Of course, with specials it always comes down to turnout.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:51 PM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

Whoo boy. You gotta read this CNN article. Trump is all in on this mess.

Trump warns House GOP members of electoral 'bloodbath' if repeal and replace fails

From the article:

"I'm proud to support the replacement plan released by the House of Representatives and encouraged by members of both parties," Trump said during brief remarks captured by the press pool.

Both parties. Oh my god please get so high on your own "dealmaker" ego that you try to shop this shit sandwich around to the Dems, I just really want to hear the reactions. Specifically Rep. Maxine Waters' reaction.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:58 PM on March 7, 2017 [16 favorites]

AHCA in 5 words: Mad Max Fury Road, ya.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 6:00 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Again I wonder if there are any dems stupid enough to vote for this. It's blatant garbage and electoral death but the "pragmatic" urge can be strong with them.
posted by Artw at 6:03 PM on March 7, 2017

The Economy Ministry decided to cancel the permits since it has no counterparts at the U.S. Department of Commerce to resolve the issue...Staff positions remain unfilled in several U.S. government departments, a situation Mexican officials say has made it difficult to negotiate trade issues.

Well. Oiled. Ma-whatever.

It's not like anybody's jobs or livelihood is at risk, or anything.
posted by darkstar at 6:10 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Hawaii will be the first state to challenge the new travel ban in court
posted by melissasaurus at 6:12 PM on March 7, 2017 [39 favorites]

So riddle me this, if the new administration needs 90 days to come up with a new plan for Muslim immigrants, then why is the new Muslim Ban EO also for 90 days, more than 35 days after the last Muslim ban EO?
posted by Yowser at 6:21 PM on March 7, 2017 [13 favorites]

The Eight Power Centers Of The Trump Administration
posted by triggerfinger at 6:22 PM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

Massachusetts' Republican governor is concerned whether the Republican proposal would let the state retain a federal waiver that would let it go back to Romneycare should Obamacare get all Ryan'ed up. One of the things that makes Charlie Baker somebody to watch in all this is that he used to be CEO of one of the state's largest (and non-profit) health insurers (his claim to fame is that he rescued it from bankruptcy), so he actually knows something about health insurance.
posted by adamg at 6:23 PM on March 7, 2017 [31 favorites]

Oh, and another reason to watch Baker: He's pledged to make up any funds the Massachusetts chapter of Planned Parenthood loses from the federal government.
posted by adamg at 6:26 PM on March 7, 2017 [21 favorites]

AHCA in 5 words: Mad Max Fury Road, ya.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 6:00 PM on March 7

Nope sorry, JakeEXTREME, you can't appropriate "Mad Max" for your messed up American political slogans. One of our conservative Canadian politicians has already claimed the "Mad Max" label in a piece of online propaganda that (of course) in no way shape or form exposes him as a dog-whistling misogynist by using who doesn't think there's a problem with the term "red pill."
posted by sardonyx at 6:28 PM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

The GOP’s Obamacare Replacement Is Just A Gigantic Tax On Women ~ Under the Republican’s new health care bill, women would face financial repercussions for being poor. Or using birth control. Or being pregnant. Or having children who need medical care.
posted by futz at 6:37 PM on March 7, 2017 [23 favorites]

Oh, dear, my Disability-based Medicare has a Medicare HMO on top of it (with which I have saved some money, but notsomuch lately when I really need it) from Blue Cross Blue Shield. A Consumerist rundown of For & Against for the AHCA (or should that be AHCA-CA?) has this quote from BCBS (or should that be AllBS?) “We appreciate the work that the administration and Congress have undertaken so far to begin stabilizing the individual market, and we are very pleased that the House bill envisions providing a smooth transition for consumers in 2018 and 2019, including making coverage more affordable by eliminating the tax on health insurance policies.”
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:38 PM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Again I wonder if there are any dems stupid enough to vote for this. It's blatant garbage and electoral death but the "pragmatic" urge can be strong with them.

Both parties. Oh my god please get so high on your own "dealmaker" ego that you try to shop this shit sandwich around to the Dems, I just really want to hear the reactions. Specifically Rep. Maxine Waters' reaction.

Waters isn't who I'd be worried about. Joe Donnelly, Hietkamp, Manchin. There's 5 Dem Senators from Trump +19 or greater states that are conspicuously quiet right now. Depending on how effectively Trump can whip the House vote, none of them can be taken for granted as a No. They're all potential traitors, and treachery is their natural state. We have to hit them hard, again, to make clear that even if they side with TrumpCare, it buys them nothing, and only ensures their loss in 2018.

Democrats are craven, spineless, soulless, self-serving cowards. They can never, not for a single moment, be trusted to do the right thing or even vote with their own party on the easiest vote imaginable. They have to be beaten, badgered, and abused into voting the right way, and nothing is ever certain until the vote is cast, or until we can learn from the tea party and successfully primary enough of them to keep the others in constant state of fear of their own base, us (looking at you, Diane Feinstien).
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:39 PM on March 7, 2017 [15 favorites]

So futz, it's the MAIYAMHCA (More Affordable If You're A Man Health Care Plan), eh?
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:41 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

The Penis Envy Plan
posted by futz at 6:42 PM on March 7, 2017

Karen Handel probably makes it through the GA-6 primary on the R side through name recognition, but she's also got name recognition from the whole Komen / Planned Parenthood thing, which will probably figure in the runoff campaign.
posted by holgate at 6:45 PM on March 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Oh, and here's the gathering narrative on the CIA malware leaks: the usually suspect are accusing the CIA of hacking the DNC and false-flagging it to Russia, the usual media laundering cycle (Breitbart printouts, Fox & Fuckwits) may lead the orange menace to adopt that as gospel.
posted by holgate at 6:57 PM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

ICE agents illegally detained Colorado US citizen for days because he was Hispanic, lawsuit claims

-- The lawsuit says that the agents searched Medina without his permission and without a warrant before he agreed to go to Alamosa, and that he only went after the agents agreed they would return him to Gunnison after questioning him.

That never happened.

-- Richmond says that ICE and the Department of Homeland Security tried to pin complaints on him while he was in the Alamosa facility that he was in the country illegally, alleging he was lying about his citizenship and that he was actually a Mexican citizen.

“You don’t look like you were born in Montrose,” one of the agents told him, according to one of the suits...

Is it really that difficult to determine if someone is a US citizen?
posted by futz at 7:01 PM on March 7, 2017 [55 favorites]

Anything that weakens the CIA and the 'Deep State' is good for Trump and his 'Skin-Deep State', right? So this Wikileak is consistent with Assange acting as a Trump ally. I stand on my prediction that he'll soon get to move his headquarters from the Ecuadorian Embassy to Trump Tower.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:03 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Is it really that difficult to determine if someone is a US citizen?

This guy won't have been the first, and won't be the last, and by the end the distinction will be "you're not a citizen if ICE say you're not."
posted by Artw at 7:06 PM on March 7, 2017 [13 favorites]

I'm halfway surprised they haven't gone after "suspected Kenyans" yet. (They may be waiting for a Trump EO)
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:09 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

The whole gambit is illegal. It is illegal to harass American citizens going about their business. Then they make it illegal to question the questioner. Then they grab what they perceive to be the low hanging fruit, anyone with a certain skin tone, or accent, and spirit them away. Meanwhile other Americans witness this, and are breaking the law if they interfere, or are they? This is why we are being set up for civil war. The only OK people are white? (In the eyes of ICE agents?) This is not our country.
posted by Oyéah at 7:13 PM on March 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

It's a part of the Trump terror campaign against PoC, just as much as the shootings are. And Trump has the gall to pretend they are going after criminals or drug lords or whatever while they are pulling this shit - he is such a gigantic lying turd, as is anyone in the party that enables him.
posted by Artw at 7:20 PM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

WSJ: Rapport Between Donald Trump, Barack Obama Crumbles: Christopher Ruddy, a friend of Mr. Trump who sees him on weekends at the president’s Mar-a-Lago club in Palm Beach, Fla., said in an interview: “From what I’m hearing, Trump’s people think Obama is at war with them."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:20 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Their inability to comprehend their own utter incompetence has left them unhinged from reality.
posted by Artw at 7:23 PM on March 7, 2017 [33 favorites]

“House Freedom Caucus members said Tuesday the GOP’s Obamacare repeal and replace plan does not have the votes necessary to pass the lower chamber,” The Hill reports.

Said Rep. Mo Brooks (R-AL): “Right now the Speaker of the House does not have the votes to pass this bill unless he’s got substantial Democratic support.”
posted by Chrysostom at 7:26 PM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

Is it really that difficult to determine if someone is a US citizen?

The ICE agents weren't trying to prove it; they were demanding that Medina prove it. And they were shifting him between facilities and allegedly refusing to listen to his parents, who had his birth certificate. The burden of proof had essentially been reversed, and they weren't even giving him an opportunity to prove his status.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:27 PM on March 7, 2017 [23 favorites]

At long last, Obama learns Republicans Are Not His Friends.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:27 PM on March 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

Leopards, faces, etc.

Martha Brawley of Monroe, N.C., said she voted for [him] in the hope he could make insurance more affordable. But on Tuesday, Ms. Brawley, 55, was feeling increasingly nervous based on what she had heard about the new plan from television news reports. She pays about $260 per month for a Blue Cross plan and receives a subsidy of $724 per month to cover the rest of her premium. Under the House plan, she would receive $3,500 a year in tax credits — $5,188 less than she gets under the Affordable Care Act.

Madam, tax cuts for millionaires don't pay for themselves.
posted by holgate at 7:28 PM on March 7, 2017 [65 favorites]

I suspect Obama getting cheered for getting coffee was the thing that spurred old man Trumps current bout of delusional anger. It'd be the stupidest and most petty thing.
posted by Artw at 7:30 PM on March 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

The burden of proof had essentially been reversed, and they weren't even giving him an opportunity to prove his status.

I was being facetious but I appreciate you sincerely answering the question :)
posted by futz at 7:31 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

The whole gambit is illegal. It is illegal to harass American citizens going about their business. Then they make it illegal to question the questioner. Then they grab what they perceive to be the low hanging fruit, anyone with a certain skin tone, or accent, and spirit them away. Meanwhile other Americans witness this, and are breaking the law if they interfere, or are they? This is why we are being set up for civil war. The only OK people are white? (In the eyes of ICE agents?) This is not our country.

Previously

1 million people were sent to Mexico during the 1930s as part of a forced wave of repatriations. 60% were American citizens.

I'm sorry, but that is your country. You've never forced yourself as a nation to deal with this generational impulse for ethnic cleansing. You will re-visit it until you have your own reckoning.
posted by bl1nk at 7:39 PM on March 7, 2017 [62 favorites]

WSJ: Rapport Between Donald Trump, Barack Obama Crumbles

"Gee, that's too bad."
posted by Juffo-Wup at 7:43 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

“The Council of Elrond”—Existential Comics

Elrond: " We have but one choice: The ring must be destroyed."
Foucault:" I think you mean to say, we have but one choice if we are committed to maintaining the power structures of society as the exist today"

posted by ob1quixote at 7:44 PM on March 7, 2017 [33 favorites]

The US government pretty commonly can't figure out that people are actually citizens such that we deport them. This predates the current administration. Actually a lot of the issues we're seeing with disparate immigration enforcement (to put it gently) happened before, but right now more of us are paying attention. It's not clear to me that a lot of the cases of arbitrary rejections at borders and such are truly more than normal, since previously it just didn't get a lot of press.
posted by R343L at 7:45 PM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

We are returning to the Dark Ages.

E.P.A. Head Stacks Agency With Climate Change Skeptics

-- Days after the Senate confirmed him as administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, Scott Pruitt appeared at the Conservative Political Action Conference and was asked about addressing a group that probably wanted to eliminate his agency.

“I think it’s justified,” he responded, to cheers. “I think people across the country look at the E.P.A. the way they look at the I.R.S.”

-- “He’s the most different kind of E.P.A. administrator that’s ever been,” said Steve J. Milloy, a member of the E.P.A. transition team who runs the website JunkScience.com, which aims to debunk climate change. “He’s not coming in thinking E.P.A. is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Quite the opposite.”

I bid Pruitt and his ossified ilk to return to the primordial ooze of a less successful timeline in which human ancestors failed to thrive.
posted by futz at 7:57 PM on March 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

Waters isn't who I'd be worried about.

I'm not worried about Waters signing on, I think she would laugh in his face and I would love to see it.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:57 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

I feel sure that my friend @RandPaul will come along with the new and great health care program because he knows Obamacare is a disaster!

Pretty sure this means Trump knows the bill is not going to pass in its current form, and he is more interested in the "review and negotiation" he emphasized in his earlier tweet. If he signs this bill, he's a one-term president.
posted by Coventry at 7:58 PM on March 7, 2017

Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Everything you wanted to know about Deep State but were afraid to ask

First, a question. There are only two ways that ~~muggles~~ Real Americans find out about American Deep State. How did you?

a) I read an article on Breitbart.com
b) I am the president of the United States, with access to the work of the world’s most vital intelligence apparatus, privy to all kinds of classified information that can get to the heart of things, and I read an article on Breitbart.com
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:02 PM on March 7, 2017 [56 favorites]

On the plus side, the impending multigenerational civil war will fizzle once the rising oceans flood the battlefields.
posted by delfin at 8:12 PM on March 7, 2017 [4 favorites]

That WSJ piece has Newsmax's Ruddy saying that the orange menace floated the idea of hiring a private investigator to look into whether the spooks were wiretapping him. Maybe he was thinking of the same guy who went to Hawaii to look for the real birth certificate. I don't know whether to be gobsmacked or relieved that he's so paranoid and blinkered he wants to send in some Bo Dietl type (or whoever he used for his corporate espionage) but that's now what I'm calibrating against for "time to pack up and GTFO."

The US government pretty commonly can't figure out that people are actually citizens such that we deport them.

Yep. Turns out that leaving vital records to the states (actually, to counties) makes it very easy to decide the paperwork doesn't pass muster.
posted by holgate at 8:15 PM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

Jason Chaffetz Spent $775 of His Campaign Donors’ Money at the Apple Store Last Year

But there’s another layer of hypocrisy to the congressman’s statements. As noted by The Intercept’s Lee Fang, FEC filings to show that Chaffetz’s donors not only pay his campaign’s Verizon bills– which last year ranged between $400 and $515 each month–but also, on at least one occasion, for his Apple electronics. On July 15, 2016, Chaffetz, or someone from his office, spent a total of $775.04 in two purchases (one for $738.08 and another for $36.96) at an Apple Store in Salt Lake City using funds from the Friends of Jason Chaffetz committee. That would be enough to purchase a new iPhone 6S and a case.

The totals are even higher if you go back a few years. The New York Daily News reports that since 2014 the Friends of Jason Chaffetz committee has filed more than 20 expenditures for Verizon Wireless for a total of $11,021. $704 more was spent by the committee on two iPads in 2015, in addition to over $3,000 at Apple Stores.

*farts in Chaffetz's ~~general~~ direction.*
posted by futz at 8:16 PM on March 7, 2017 [39 favorites]

E.P.A. Head Stacks Agency With Climate Change Skeptics

It really annoys me when the NYT and others let them off the hook by calling them skeptics. A skeptic will bow to the evidence. These people are deniers.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:24 PM on March 7, 2017 [63 favorites]

I'm seeing a lot of tweets implying Chaffetz's iPhone remark was mere out-of-touch-ism, e.g. "My insulin, with no insurance coverage, would cost me about $3,000 a month. $36,000 a year. An iPhone 7 is $650." It's more importantly a racist dog whistle — a racist vuvuzela as Imani Gandy put it — as part of the description ever racist nincompoop I know uses for their racist description of the totally-real-and-not-made-up SNAP recipient they were in line behind at the grocery store. Fuck Jason Chaffetz.
posted by ob1quixote at 8:34 PM on March 7, 2017 [39 favorites]

I feel like the connection to Trump is a lot more tenuous than the headline implies, but it turns out that, thanks to some incredible reporting by The Daily Beast, the NRA has been palling around in Russia, even meeting during the election with Dmitry Rogozin, a Putin deputy subject to sanctions over Crimea. They claim that they didn't discuss politics. The group, which included Sheriff Clarke, was in Moscow the same week as the RT dinner Flynn attended. A somewhat puzzling Russian gun rights group apparrently paid some of the expenses.
posted by zachlipton at 8:38 PM on March 7, 2017 [12 favorites]

Nope sorry, JakeEXTREME, you can't appropriate "Mad Max" for your messed up American political slogans.

Ok then how about, "Think Escape From New York".
posted by JakeEXTREME at 8:48 PM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

These people are deniers.

Seriously. List the worst companies in the world for harming people, and chances are Milloy has taken their money to say that they were shitting unicorn rainbows. If I believed in a retributive afterlife, I'd want a very hot furnace in hell for that fucker.
posted by holgate at 8:54 PM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

> 'My insulin, with no insurance coverage, would cost me about $3,000 a month. $36,000 a year. An iPhone 7 is $650."

There is no way insulin costs that much (not saying you weren't charged for that). It's the fucking HMO middle~~person~~man cut that makes healthcare so un-affordable. Also, the perverse incentive for the highly esoteric manipulation of real numbers/price of healthcare.

This attempt at dismantling a developmentally disabled infant version of universal care has very bad optics outside of the USA.

$36,000 a year FOR INSULIN is fucking stupid.

*edit: even $3,600 per year is stupid.
posted by porpoise at 9:00 PM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

These people are deniers.

No, they are cranks and crackpots. "Denier" inappropriately tiptoes around their essential lunacy.
posted by dirge at 9:02 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Sure, you can have that one, JakeEXTREME, but here's a real deal: you can still have Mad Max if you take Bernier with the name. He can be the one to implement the plan. That way there's a ready made scapegoat. And we'll even throw in Kellie Leitch and Kevin O'Leary as free bonuses. Oh, and in case you're worried Bernier won't fit in, remember, he's already lost top secret NATO documents and he came up with some cockeyed idea for killing one old regulation before implementing a new one.
posted by sardonyx at 9:04 PM on March 7, 2017

Guess Which Word the EPA Just Deleted From Its Science Mission Statement
"Science" is out. "Technologically achievable" is in.

I hope that science develops a Technologically Achievable amoeba that thrives on idiocy. Go go amoebas! Eat Mor Brains.
posted by futz at 9:20 PM on March 7, 2017 [30 favorites]

From what I’m hearing, Trump’s people think Obama is at war with them.

Pretty sure Obama is just on vacation
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:25 PM on March 7, 2017 [26 favorites]

Oh, and in case you're worried Bernier won't fit in...

I can't see that being a problem, I mean, we love Bernie over here so how could you go wrong
posted by contraption at 9:28 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

My partner has drugs which cost around 1 iPhone* per month. There's 3 different drugs which come in at that price point for her. I don't know what the total bill for her dialysis is now, but a few years ago it was around 105 iPhones per annum (dialysis + monthly doctor visits + in-center drugs). So we're looking at ~141 iPhones to maintain her care yearly.

I hope people are flooding Chaffetz with these numbers so he can properly understand the ratio of iPhones to healthcare costs.

* I'm using an unlocked, unsubsidized 7+, 256 gig iPhone for the conversion rate of iPhones to dollars. 1 iPhone = $970 at the current exchange. The math is even less in Chaffetz's favor if we go downmarket for a 6s or an SE.
posted by honestcoyote at 9:33 PM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

It's the fucking HMO middlepersonman cut that makes healthcare so un-affordable.

Specifically with insulin: it's allegedly because of an ongoing "arrangement" between the drug makers and the PBMs who negotiate with the insurance cos, where the rack rate is raised to stupid money so that the PBMs can be rewarded a percentage on the "discount" from what the drug makers pretend is the real cost -- and do charge to the uninsured and people who haven't met deductibles -- in order to get their products on the insurance formulary. This is all kinds of fucked up and only happens in America.
posted by holgate at 9:37 PM on March 7, 2017 [16 favorites]

roomthreeseventeen: “From what I’m hearing, Trump’s people think Obama is at war with them."

Obama: "I don't think about you at all" /Don Draper
posted by bluecore at 9:47 PM on March 7, 2017 [22 favorites]

Actually given how much things cost now, using iPhone instead of dollars makes more sense.

Where I live, the median income is 86 iPhones per year.

The average home costs 940 iPhones.

18% of people live on less than 17 iPhones per year.

The average CEO in my state makes 296 iPhones per year.
posted by cell divide at 9:54 PM on March 7, 2017 [9 favorites]

Trump adviser Icahn accused of breaching lobbying rules

Public Citizen contends that Icahn, his company Icahn Enterprises and the CVR oil refining company he owns failed to register as lobbyists, yet pushed the White House to change the EPA's decade-old rules on ethanol — a move that would save Icahn's company hundreds of millions of dollars.

Trump named Icahn, whose net worth is pegged by Forbes at nearly $22 billion, as the White House's special adviser for regulatory reform in December, but said he would "not be serving as a federal employee or a special government employee and will not have any specific duties."

Let's think about that for a moment. I truly fucking despise these people.
posted by futz at 9:58 PM on March 7, 2017 [29 favorites]

I like the metric of iPhone, but surely the ceos in your state average more than $300k. Hell, the npr CEO of the dfw metroplex makes over 600 iPhones.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 10:01 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

I have to admit I never saw the modern dystopia as being Phillip K. Dick with a way too much bigly dose of Plan 9 From Outer Space.
posted by juiceCake at 10:04 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

ICE agents illegally detained Colorado US citizen for days because he was Hispanic, lawsuit claims

To be fair, that incident took place in 2015 when Obama was president.

You could also look at it this way; they were that feckless under a President who cared about the rule of law, which is scary as shit, and have by all accounts started shooting far more wildly this year under Trump.
posted by msalt at 10:04 PM on March 7, 2017 [24 favorites]

The average CEO in my state makes 296 iPhones per year.

Wait till you hear how many iPhones it's possible to make a year as a 14yo Shenzhen resident. They virtually insist!
posted by jaduncan at 10:05 PM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

but surely the ceos in your state average more than $300k.

There is a cell divide epony joke just waiting to be told in this interchange :)
posted by futz at 10:06 PM on March 7, 2017

I just trusted the first Google result, which said the average CEO was something like 198k per year in my city.
posted by cell divide at 10:09 PM on March 7, 2017

msalt, I did not notice that. Thanks for pointing that out. Apologies. I just looked at the date of the article. Fool me once, and I'll surely get fooled again
posted by futz at 10:10 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

Obama: "I don't think about you at all" /Don Draper

On the one hand, I'd like Obama to start on the voting rights thing he wanted to do.

On the other hand, if he spent the next month doing random "still on downtime" shit to an adoring crowd of bystanders, it might tip the orange menace over the edge. Obama does yoga in Colorado. Obama hangs out in cheap Chicago restaurant with Chance the Rapper. Obama pops in for some pulled pork in eastern NC. Obama stands in crowd at Today show taping, with a thin smile and saying nothing.
posted by holgate at 10:18 PM on March 7, 2017 [47 favorites]

<christraeger>This thread is litrally killing my iPad.</christraeger> Will some kind soul please make another?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:23 PM on March 7, 2017 [6 favorites]

Chaffetz, whose healthcare is subsidized by taxpayers, spent quite a bit of his campaign donors' money over the years on Apple products.
posted by dirigibleman at 10:35 PM on March 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'll do a new thread.
posted by zachlipton at 10:54 PM on March 7, 2017 [14 favorites]

The disheartening thing about stacking agencies with dismantlers is that we're going to have to purge the purge once we get back into the White House. If there even is a White House. Christ, what a disaster.

On NPR yesterday I heard a discussion of the possibility of rebellion in the deep state and one analyst remarked that the IC needs to make nice with Trump because he's the elected representative of the American people. I was shouting in my car. "Lady, he's not normal! There's no making nice! Nothing less than Comey and the NSA and CIA directors crawling into the Oval on their hands and knees and vowing to serve the God Emperor will suffice! And then he'd ask them to do illegal shit!"

I seriously do not want the IC or any other aspect of the deep state to undermine the will of the American people, but he doesn't represent the will of the American people. He lost the popular vote.
posted by xyzzy at 10:55 PM on March 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

Are folks checking the thread for keywords and urls that have already been posted? Lots of doubles and triples.
posted by futz at 10:57 PM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

One deleted. Please don't use the edit function to add or delete content; it's for typos and small fixes only. Also, let's skip complete derails, please. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:24 PM on March 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

Anybody else more optimistic that Obamacare will survive mostly intact than they have been since election day? If this is the best they can do.. Sad! Low Energy!
posted by Justinian at 11:25 PM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

Justinian, as many here have pointed out, the combination of the GOP lead congress and Trump don't seem to be able to govern effectively. I think a piece of that is pretty well touched in in the 508 piece posted above about the various groups of power in the Trump admin so far.

I hope the GOP breaks this year. Last year we thought it might, and holy shit this year's shaping up to at least be even funnier. I just hope I don't die.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 11:35 PM on March 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

The disheartening thing about stacking agencies with dismantlers is that we're going to have to purge the purge once we get back into the White House.

The best hope is that not being able or willing to staff agencies with the typical number of political appointees means that there'll be fewer fuckers to purge. That's not a great hope, but it's something.

Anybody else more optimistic that Obamacare will survive mostly intact than they have been since election day?

Honestly, no. The damage was done during Obama's term by GOP intransigence, which makes it even more maddening that Ryan dumped this shit sandwich. Red-state governors like Bevin are willing to crater state stuff on sheer zealotry. Medicaid expansion never got to a lot of states that needed it. Insurance companies are going to run for the hills from the individual market no matter what. The ACA was never given a chance to deal effectively with a backlog of deferred care that was much greater than anyone expected, because it turns out that deferring care -- or being denied coverage -- made "living sick" the norm for millions.

I'm slightly more optimistic that it'll create space for something more radical, even if it's just a state-based public option. But in the meantime, people will die, people who could be working will seek out disability, and people with the capacity to move to countries with actual healthcare systems will GTFO.
posted by holgate at 11:37 PM on March 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

and holy shit this year's shaping up to at least be even funnier. I just hope I don't die.

Well if we die, at least we're dying hilariously.
posted by Justinian at 11:37 PM on March 7, 2017 [8 favorites]

Trump’s people think Obama is at war with them

trump's people couldn't think their way out of a wet paper bag
posted by poffin boffin at 12:21 AM on March 8, 2017 [4 favorites]

New thread.

(I think the Day Without A Woman deserves a separate thread from general politics discussion, so I called it out inside as a thing that's happening right now, but left space for someone else to do an FPP for that event.)
posted by zachlipton at 12:49 AM on March 8, 2017 [6 favorites]

We do actually already have this on the A Day Without A Women.
posted by taz at 1:19 AM on March 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

I be fine with linking that thread in the FPP if that's how the mods would like to organize the discussion.
posted by zachlipton at 1:25 AM on March 8, 2017

If there's a solid take on a new one that doesn't lead to only a repetition of the same discussion about privilege and effectiveness that would be okay, but I'm not really sure what that would look like. Maybe something post-strike? I don't know! In the meantime, it seems like, yeah, it might be helpful to have it linked there for people looking for the current discussion, so I'll do that.
posted by taz at 1:38 AM on March 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

Since I live in a country with 4 times as many pigs as people, we have a huge insulin production. So I had to look up the prices. It was difficult, because here too, the insulin producers are some sneaky bastards. But, as far as I can see, a year's worth of insulin is priced at about 3500 dollars. The story I found about it was calling for the state to take over insulin production because that price was way too high.
posted by mumimor at 2:06 AM on March 8, 2017 [5 favorites]

These people are deniers.

These people are nihilists.
posted by adamgreenfield at 6:03 AM on March 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

These people are nihilists.

Hey hey now just because we think life has no meaning or purpose doesn't mean we don't care about the experience of suffering or injustice.
posted by Tarumba at 6:17 AM on March 8, 2017 [11 favorites]

DANGIT. New Thread.

*sigh* Come on, Tehhund.
posted by petebest at 8:05 AM on March 8, 2017 [6 favorites]

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