The Night Ocean
March 10, 2017 2:14 PM Subscribe
There's a fictionalused account if the bit with Barlow becoming Lovecrafts literary executor in Moore and Burrow's Providence, but the extra details here manage to make Derleth look even worse. He truly was a horrible person.
posted by Artw at 2:44 PM on March 10, 2017
posted by Artw at 2:44 PM on March 10, 2017
Oh, and if you're curious: The Night Ocean - By H. P. Lovecraft and R. H. Barlow
posted by Artw at 2:45 PM on March 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:45 PM on March 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I think HPL was heterosexual so far as it went, but was too horrified by human interaction to pursue relationships any further than he did. I got the impression from his biography that his wife Sonia (who could probably fill a biography herself) had to actively pursue him. I had wanted to write a play about those two, but I heard it's been done.
Killing himself to avoid exposure, leaving a suicide note in Mayan ... Jesus, homophobia has robbed us of so much and so many. Poor Barlow.
(Incidentally, as a student of Alfred Kroeber, he has a tenuous link to another SF luminary, Kroeber's daughter Ursula K. LeGuin, although who knows if the two ever met.)
posted by Countess Elena at 2:48 PM on March 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
Killing himself to avoid exposure, leaving a suicide note in Mayan ... Jesus, homophobia has robbed us of so much and so many. Poor Barlow.
(Incidentally, as a student of Alfred Kroeber, he has a tenuous link to another SF luminary, Kroeber's daughter Ursula K. LeGuin, although who knows if the two ever met.)
posted by Countess Elena at 2:48 PM on March 10, 2017 [22 favorites]
This is a lovely piece. Touching and tinged with a certain sadness. Poor Barlow; as if I needed another reason to dislike Derleth. So strange and interesting that Barlow bridges Lovecraft with Burroughs in a way, too.
Thanks for posting this.
posted by byanyothername at 3:00 PM on March 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Thanks for posting this.
posted by byanyothername at 3:00 PM on March 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I think HPL was heterosexual so far as it went, but was too horrified by human interaction to pursue relationships any further than he did.
Eh, I agree with the heterosexual part, but the rest of this is, as far as I can tell, a myth. Lovecraft was, within his limited means, an eager traveler and host. He seems to me a mildly social man who was trapped both by poverty a need to play-act the genteel Anglo-American aristocrat. Given his strained circumstances and his inability to work for money (one reason Sonia never moved to Providence was that Lovecraft's aunts couldn't stand the idea of her establishing herself as a "tradeswoman" in their city), Lovecraft probably held more people at arms length than he might otherwise have wished. It's a little funny that, in our 21st-century of email and texts, we should label a man with the extremely wide circle of correspondents a "recluse."
On the other hand, given Lovecraft's rather complicated childhood, I can easily imagine that he wasn't socialized to be a particularly romance- and/or sexually-oriented person. He certainly didn't have an enormous amount of experience dating, at least not that he wrote about. It's not impossible that he was largely asexual and/or aromantic as well, but that's really hard to diagnose at this remove, especially since neither Lovecraft nor his closest friends would have had that language to describe him.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:18 PM on March 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Eh, I agree with the heterosexual part, but the rest of this is, as far as I can tell, a myth. Lovecraft was, within his limited means, an eager traveler and host. He seems to me a mildly social man who was trapped both by poverty a need to play-act the genteel Anglo-American aristocrat. Given his strained circumstances and his inability to work for money (one reason Sonia never moved to Providence was that Lovecraft's aunts couldn't stand the idea of her establishing herself as a "tradeswoman" in their city), Lovecraft probably held more people at arms length than he might otherwise have wished. It's a little funny that, in our 21st-century of email and texts, we should label a man with the extremely wide circle of correspondents a "recluse."
On the other hand, given Lovecraft's rather complicated childhood, I can easily imagine that he wasn't socialized to be a particularly romance- and/or sexually-oriented person. He certainly didn't have an enormous amount of experience dating, at least not that he wrote about. It's not impossible that he was largely asexual and/or aromantic as well, but that's really hard to diagnose at this remove, especially since neither Lovecraft nor his closest friends would have had that language to describe him.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:18 PM on March 10, 2017 [16 favorites]
Well, his closest friends are quite a bunch too. That Bob Howard...
posted by Artw at 3:19 PM on March 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:19 PM on March 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
On another line, I'm a little disappointed that a short article on Barlow was more about Lovecraft and Burroughs than the poor man himself. It's almost as if Barlow is as overshadowed in death as he was in life. This article manages to minimize what seems to have been genuine accomplishments.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:20 PM on March 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:20 PM on March 10, 2017 [9 favorites]
Clark Ashton Smith, from the biographical part of his collected works, was a 'notorious Bohemian' in San Francisco in the 30s and 40s.... but I don't know if that refers to his predilection for seeking exotic drugs, or if it wasn't a coded euphemism along the lines of 'confirmed bachelor'.
Does anybody know more on this? He was certainly the part of the big original trio that featured the most romanticism in his stories.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 3:25 PM on March 10, 2017
Does anybody know more on this? He was certainly the part of the big original trio that featured the most romanticism in his stories.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 3:25 PM on March 10, 2017
Does anybody know more on this?
Smith lived in rural poverty most of his life, and he spent a lot of that writing and looking after his ailing parents, so his opportunities for romance were somewhat curtailed. However, he did marry a woman late in his life, For what it's worth...
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:46 PM on March 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Smith lived in rural poverty most of his life, and he spent a lot of that writing and looking after his ailing parents, so his opportunities for romance were somewhat curtailed. However, he did marry a woman late in his life, For what it's worth...
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:46 PM on March 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
William S. Burroughs is the gift that keeps on giving.
“A queer Professor from K.C., Mo., head of the Anthropology dept. here at M.C.C. where I collect my $75 per month, knocked himself off a few days ago with overdose of goof balls. Vomit all over the bed,” he wrote, in a letter to Allen Ginsberg. “I can’t see this suicide kick,” he added. Nine months later, Burroughs got drunk and shot his wife in the head.posted by Nelson at 3:53 PM on March 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
Can't expect an emotional reaction from a guy who is professionally a lizard.
posted by Artw at 3:54 PM on March 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:54 PM on March 10, 2017 [7 favorites]
a 'notorious Bohemian' in San Francisco in the 30s and 40s.... but I don't know if that refers to his predilection for seeking exotic drugs, or if it wasn't a coded euphemism along the lines of 'confirmed bachelor'.
well, in Shadows Bend, fictionalized Clark Ashton Smith sleeps with fictionalized Tori Amos... ok, maybe this isn't the most reliable of sources.
posted by Zed at 4:05 PM on March 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
well, in Shadows Bend, fictionalized Clark Ashton Smith sleeps with fictionalized Tori Amos... ok, maybe this isn't the most reliable of sources.
posted by Zed at 4:05 PM on March 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's a fictionalused account if the bit with Barlow becoming Lovecrafts literary executor in Moore and Burrow's Providence, but the extra details here manage to make Derleth look even worse. He truly was a horrible person.
Yeah, Derleth always was a prick about this, and his own writings in the Mythos showed that he never really 'got' the baseline expression of the cosmic horror - his idea that some portions of the various pantheons were benevolent allies of mankind serving to combat the Others was... misguidedly optimistic. On the other hand, and as shitty as his approach to it was, he really *did* have a better handle on how to preserve/publish/promote HPL's writings than a teenager living in the middle of nowhere. On the grasping hand, Derleth's Elder Sign is the most misguidedly anthropocentric bit of mystic froo-faw fanfic and totally worthless when the protoplasm hits the fan, but it's proliferated far further than HPL's design, which can be advantageous for... some of us.
In conclusion, Derleth is a land of contrasts.
posted by FatherDagon at 5:17 PM on March 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yeah, Derleth always was a prick about this, and his own writings in the Mythos showed that he never really 'got' the baseline expression of the cosmic horror - his idea that some portions of the various pantheons were benevolent allies of mankind serving to combat the Others was... misguidedly optimistic. On the other hand, and as shitty as his approach to it was, he really *did* have a better handle on how to preserve/publish/promote HPL's writings than a teenager living in the middle of nowhere. On the grasping hand, Derleth's Elder Sign is the most misguidedly anthropocentric bit of mystic froo-faw fanfic and totally worthless when the protoplasm hits the fan, but it's proliferated far further than HPL's design, which can be advantageous for... some of us.
In conclusion, Derleth is a land of contrasts.
posted by FatherDagon at 5:17 PM on March 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
There are some distasteful aspects to this story in general (and I have no more use for William S. Burroughs now than I usually do), but the sheer trippiness of one's favorite SFF author coming to hang out with you when you're an impressionable teen just slays me. Imagine who that would be, and what they would make of your town. (For me, that would be either Asimov or Harlan Ellison, and Chicago, although I was acquainted with a relatively small slice of it at the time.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:26 PM on March 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:26 PM on March 10, 2017 [6 favorites]
bit of mystic froo-faw fanfic
froo-faw fanfic
posted by clockzero at 6:10 PM on March 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
froo-faw fanfic
posted by clockzero at 6:10 PM on March 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
Twig over Star, every time.
posted by Artw at 6:21 PM on March 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 6:21 PM on March 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
On a side note, why speculation about Lovecraft's sexuality, but not Robert E. Howard? At least Lovecraft married. Howard was apparently a celibate to the end and died a virgin.
posted by Beholder at 6:22 PM on March 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Beholder at 6:22 PM on March 10, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mainly because it's kind of a bummer, I think.
posted by Artw at 6:23 PM on March 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:23 PM on March 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
Twig over Star, every time.
I was just messaging with the guy who "discovered" the star-Necronomicon that populates many a shelf.
My high school self is well jelly.
(I am Team Twig, btw)
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:09 PM on March 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
I was just messaging with the guy who "discovered" the star-Necronomicon that populates many a shelf.
My high school self is well jelly.
(I am Team Twig, btw)
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:09 PM on March 10, 2017 [3 favorites]
oh I remember finding that Necronomicon at home when I was 12 or so, and being scared to read it because all I knew was that I heard it was cursed, and I went to school with people who straight up believed the devil could get you through a book. I never asked myself why it would be so easy for the devil to get at people through a $7 paperback from Waldenbooks.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:17 PM on March 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 7:17 PM on March 10, 2017 [12 favorites]
(I never questioned why my dad would own the actual Necronomicon, either)
posted by Countess Elena at 7:19 PM on March 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 7:19 PM on March 10, 2017 [10 favorites]
but the sheer trippiness of one's favorite SFF author coming to hang out with you when you're an impressionable teen just slays me. Imagine who that would be, and what they would make of your town. (For me, that would be either Asimov or Harlan Ellison, and Chicago, although I was acquainted with a relatively small slice of it at the time.)
For me at 11 it would have been Heinlein, and he lived there already (though I'd've run if I'd seen him in the supermarket or something), but by 12 and 3/4 it was Dick, and the Springs would only have made him even more paranoid, I'd imagine -- and Asimov suffered from acute agoraphobia, as I understand it, and might have been terrified into catatonia by Chicago.
posted by jamjam at 7:25 PM on March 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
For me at 11 it would have been Heinlein, and he lived there already (though I'd've run if I'd seen him in the supermarket or something), but by 12 and 3/4 it was Dick, and the Springs would only have made him even more paranoid, I'd imagine -- and Asimov suffered from acute agoraphobia, as I understand it, and might have been terrified into catatonia by Chicago.
posted by jamjam at 7:25 PM on March 10, 2017 [1 favorite]
but the sheer trippiness of one's favorite SFF author coming to hang out with you when you're an impressionable teen just slays me.
That time a kid ran away from home to visit Piers Anthony (an amazing TAL episode).
posted by 445supermag at 6:47 AM on March 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
That time a kid ran away from home to visit Piers Anthony (an amazing TAL episode).
posted by 445supermag at 6:47 AM on March 11, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'll have to actually listen to it, but I have to admit my first reaction to that is "Oh god, kid, super not worth it."
posted by Artw at 6:52 AM on March 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:52 AM on March 11, 2017 [4 favorites]
A good bit of meta-Lovecraftian fiction: The Boy Who Followed Lovecraft
posted by Artw at 6:54 AM on March 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 6:54 AM on March 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
He told Lovecraft about his rabbits.
Well there you go.
posted by lagomorphius at 7:45 AM on March 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well there you go.
posted by lagomorphius at 7:45 AM on March 11, 2017 [2 favorites]
In the Heroes in Hell shared universe in the late 80s, Robert Silverburg wrote a couple Gilgamesh novellas. They were pretty fun. HP Lovecraft and Robert E Howard appear in one of them. I don't remember much about HP's character but I remember that Howard has some internal issues with wanting to be swept up into Gilgamesh's mighty arms. Good times.
posted by Ber at 8:49 AM on March 11, 2017
posted by Ber at 8:49 AM on March 11, 2017
On the grasping hand
Hate to be that guy, but it's 'gripping hand.'
posted by Splunge at 9:33 AM on March 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hate to be that guy, but it's 'gripping hand.'
posted by Splunge at 9:33 AM on March 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
> On another line, I'm a little disappointed that a short article on Barlow was more about Lovecraft and Burroughs than the poor man himself. It's almost as if Barlow is as overshadowed in death as he was in life. This article manages to minimize what seems to have been genuine accomplishments.
Charles Olson wrote this in a letter to Robert Creeley in January 1951:
Charles Olson wrote this in a letter to Robert Creeley in January 1951:
the news hit me the 1st night Merida:posted by languagehat at 11:18 AM on March 11, 2017 [8 favorites]
that Barlow, my boy Barlow, the finest Americanist of them all (I’m sure I must have sounded off to you abt him—put out mag called Tlallocan all by himself, & mostly in Nahuatl—wrote fair verse—was the best (the sort of thing, Parkman almost, given the necessary difference of 100 yrs)
a month ago, he told his boys (Indians, he lived at 34 alone Atzacopozatcalco) to go away for the night, wrote them a letter (in Mayan I am told) and took a full bottle of the pills which sleep
dead/Barlow dead/ the goddamndest loss to the necessary knowledge of precisely these parts & peoples, precisely such things & fixes you and I know are of value
Hate to be that guy, but it's 'gripping hand.'
I mean, in the end they're really all just rugose tendrils....
posted by FatherDagon at 12:52 PM on March 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
I mean, in the end they're really all just rugose tendrils....
posted by FatherDagon at 12:52 PM on March 11, 2017 [6 favorites]
Clark Ashton Smith wrote a fair amount of erotic poetry about women. Seems to have been fairly interested in them. When eroticism shows up in his fiction, it's usually heterosexual and has overtones of S&M. Of course, this says nothing whatever about his actual life experiences.
posted by Rush-That-Speaks at 9:55 PM on March 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Rush-That-Speaks at 9:55 PM on March 11, 2017 [1 favorite]
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Surprised there was no mention of O Fortunate Floridian which I can't but suspect was a source for the article...
posted by Zed at 2:32 PM on March 10, 2017 [3 favorites]