1 Across: Experience an Inward Shiver of Embarrassment

June 8, 2017 2:33 AM

The Times crosswords, which have been edited by the famed crossword giant Will Shortz since 1993, are vexing for how outdated some of the clues and answers are, especially since in some cases the terms have been abandoned by the paper itself. The puzzle clearly isn’t seeking new talent or a new audience, and in its stodginess, it becomes clear that it is composed for a very particular reader with a very particular view of the world. The NYT Crossword is old and kind of racist by Adrianne Jeffries in The Outline

Previously, Previouslier, Previouslest

posted by chavenet (34 comments total)

I wasn't convinced when I started reading, I was convinced when I finished reading
Successful article, I suppose
posted by hleehowon at 3:03 AM on June 8, 2017 [13 favorites]

Will Shortz is a giant of the American puzzle landscape who needs to retire before he ossifies completely. I love the NYT crossword, but there isn't a single unfair accusation in this article -- 13 percent women constructors is inexcusable in and of itself, but the fact that that number is down more than 20 points from the 1970s and 1980s is simply disgusting.
posted by Etrigan at 3:10 AM on June 8, 2017 [30 favorites]

Yup. I still like the NYT one, largely because it's simply the best crossword web interface out there.

If you like your crosswords to be actively edgy and left-wing, try the American Values Club (AVC) crossword.

Some examples of their extremes:
The first puzzle of theirs I solved included either "dildo" or "peg" (clued as the sex act), I forget which. Possibly both, frankly.
They had an entire, rather unsubtle, anti-Trump crossword.
They are currently about 39% constructed by women, in 2017.
posted by flibbertigibbet at 4:19 AM on June 8, 2017 [15 favorites]

I would just to stop in to say hi to theodolite and ask him how his Mitzi Green fan club is shaping up.
posted by phunniemee at 4:52 AM on June 8, 2017

Since the election the NYT has been using at least one Trump-related clue a week ("Ivanka's brother" for ERIC, for example), and yes I guess these are topical clues, but it drives me crazy. It's not enough we have to normalize his bullshit in the A section, it has to infect the puzzle also?

“The answer was LORELAI, and the sirens on the Rhine are of course ‘Lorelei,’ with an ‘e-i.’ Liz's clue was Rory's mom on Gilmore Girls, and I didn't think solvers should have to know that.”

Come on now, as a daily solver, how many random things do I think about only because their names use auspicious letter combinations? OK, Gilmore Girls had been off the air for four years by this time Shortz made Gorski change her clue, but ISIAH Thomas left the NBA in 1994 and still shows up on a regular basis because three vowels and two high-frequency consonants. DEEDEE Myers, ESAI Morales, YMA Sumac... and as a Minnesotan, I've noticed the only two MN towns NYT readers are expected to know are both wealthy suburbs as well as useful from a spelling standpoint (EDINA and EAGAN).
posted by Flannery Culp at 4:54 AM on June 8, 2017 [11 favorites]

Yma Sumac will always be with us in the crosswords, I fear, but remember, her name spelled backwards is the NOT exotic "Amy Camus".
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:08 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

Yeah, the article is pretty much on the money, and Michael Sharp's take fit my experience when I stopped doing the NYT crosswords compulsively back around a decade ago, “Just tired / old / bad concepts ... and all of it only semi-competently executed.”. Way too many of the same clue/answers and few really interesting, clever, or modern ones to make up for it.

Some of that is fine, I mean I always accepted some words were basically only used for their letters, so knowing them as purely crossword necessary was fine, I'm looking at you "Sash for a Kimono", so while the Lorelai answer would vex and annoy me at first for that "a" I would assume is wrong, once I found it was correct, it would become another little piece of knowledge able to be wielded in future crosswords or wherever else such trivia might prove relevant, much like I did with "obi". That was what I always took to be part of the charm of the things.
posted by gusottertrout at 5:47 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]

I do the crossword every day, and agree it's frequently groan worthy. The obsession with dorags is really bizarre. But overall, it's just lazy. Institutional racism and sexism are real, and surely they're at work we're--but the whole feature feels phoned in frequently. There was a great set of experimental crosswords in the fall last year that were fresh, and, I think that gave the constructors (who I think were regulars) an opportunity to do some that saved them from going back to their usual tired and problematic lexicon of obi, esos, srta, Esai Morales, Omar Epps, and the rest of the hackneyed answers.

I like Will Shortz well enough, but it's time for some new blood over there.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 5:55 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

Let us not forget ARAM Khachaturian and EERO Saarinen and any number of European rivers, like the YSER, which I am infuriated to learn is only 48 miles long.

I do a NYT Friday/Saturday crossword every day and my current collection has puzzles from 2014/2015. The puzzle I'm working on has the clue 'Singer John with the 1984 #1 hit "Missing You"' - a mostly-forgotten pop song from over 30 years ago. The number of time I've filled in ETAIL for online shopping clues (which in other contexts would be a satire of out-of-touch adults trying to use hip slang) cannot be counted. The stodginess is real.

There was also a Slate article last year that focused more on gender than race with more examples:

In 2012, the answer ILLEGAL was clued with: “One caught by the border patrol.” The offensive use of illegal as a noun set off a brouhaha that made its way to Univision. In 2013, a national puzzle syndicate apologized for using the clue “Shylock” for the answer JEW. And in November, Shortz issued a mea culpa for the clue “Exasperated comment from a feminist.” Answer: MEN—presumably with an invisible exclamation point and flying sweat out of a Cathy comic.

It also pointed that, at the time of publication (June 2016), 11/47 of the most recent constructors were women, which is 23%, meaning this year marks a 50% decline from last year.

Racist/sexist/LGBTphobic types of clues make it into NYT's puzzles so often, and they always jar me out of the puzzle. The most annoying is when they come after a '?' clue - because the 'it's just a joke!' defense is built right in. I resent having to pencil in the punchline to some bigoted dad-joke to complete the damn thing.
posted by palindromic at 6:01 AM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]

If you like your crosswords to be actively edgy and left-wing

Or you could try the Private Eye crossword (solved and archived here). Politically correct it ain't ('tits' and 'bust' get clued a lot), but I enjoy the snark and smuttiness. 'Groping Evita's tits, just the sort of thing Trump would love' (5,5) -- that was one from several weeks ago.
posted by verstegan at 6:17 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

Last year I read here on Metafilter about the most important times puzzle ever, which was breathlessly described as groundbreaking. I downloaded the Times crossword app and solved the puzzle before I could be spoiled as to what this amazing breakthrough could be! I was non-plussed when it turned out it was just the Time crossword acknowledging gender fluidity for the first time ever. That really drove home how FUSTY/MUSTY the Times is.
posted by ejs at 6:25 AM on June 8, 2017 [5 favorites]

When you have a google chrome extension that changes a certain presidential first name to "Stupid" and last name to "Jerkface" (plus some other name changes for other people in that family), doing the crossword gets interesting.
posted by JanetLand at 6:26 AM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

I was non-plussed when it turned out it was just the Time crossword acknowledging gender fluidity for the first time ever.

Is this the original meaning of nonplussed (bewildered) or the increasingly common American meaning (unimpressed)? I can't tell for sure.

Also, please sign my petition to ban the completely ruined word "nonplussed."
posted by Pater Aletheias at 6:31 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]

Original meaning, though both would apply. Bewildered that this was getting so much praise, when it should have been damning. Unimpressed by the whole thing.
posted by ejs at 6:33 AM on June 8, 2017 [6 favorites]

Palindromic: The puzzle I'm working on has the clue 'Singer John with the 1984 #1 hit "Missing You"' - a mostly-forgotten pop song from over 30 years ago.

Without spoiling the clue for you, the part in the video where he delivers the title with a nearly imperceptible tough guy head nod to the camera never fails to induce a giggling fit.
posted by dr_dank at 7:04 AM on June 8, 2017 [3 favorites]

Slate: The NYT crossword can be clueless about race and gender, from June 2016.

HOMIES shows up again, as well as a HAREM clued as "decidedly non-feminist women’s group."
posted by andrewesque at 7:30 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]

I was a compulsive Times crossword puzzler until about 15 years ago. In addition to the reasons Jeffries explains in her article I also felt they lost their fun with the passing of Eugene Maleska. These days I do the LA times and WaPo puzzles (though not as difficult) and I love Brendan Emmett Quigley's puzzles.
posted by SA456 at 8:07 AM on June 8, 2017

If you like your crosswords to be actively edgy and left-wing, try the American Values Club (AVC) crossword.

came here to post that exact recommendation! an AVCX subscription is cheap and super worth it. ben tausig is a great editor and a lot of the puzzle creators are women, and the clues are actually fun and interesting and hardly ever repeat the way that the nyt clues do
posted by burgerrr at 9:01 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

I hope everyone knows about the Cruciverb site, which has links to pretty much every paid and free crossword puzzle out there...
posted by twsf at 9:12 AM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]

The article's point about ñ is completely correct. Can anyone confirm my memory that there was a recent puzzle where the novelty was the inclusion of basic Spanish clues? The answers were arranged to intersect on that letter. I just felt embarrassed. Like maybe I was using my elementary Spanish (Piñata) to order food from a server who speeks fluent English.
posted by Richard Daly at 9:40 AM on June 8, 2017

Thanks for linking the article and enjoyed the discussion. The reason I come to Metafilter is different perspectives. And I'm glad I read the Slate article linked by Andrewesque because I feel like that captured the issue with the NYT crossword much more effectively than Adriane Jeffries did above. Because man, Jeffries shot-gun approach to outrage made it hard for me to pick out exactly how the NYT xword could be better. I mean, why all the shade thrown at the "Dictionary of Contemporary Slang?" Why include the preference for classical or original references over pop culture reference to marginally successful WB dramedy? And Adriane doesn't really explain why some of the words that are used in association to non straight-white people are offensive which, if you're not like me and ready to spend 20 minutes reading articles that arise googling "Eskimo Name Controversy?", are going fly over the head of most non-Canadian readers.
posted by midmarch snowman at 10:13 AM on June 8, 2017

Not knowing that "Eskimo" - or, for that matter, "homie" or "sissie" - are offensive seems like it's a pretty low bar to clear, and certainly not something she should need to dedicate her article to.

The Dictionary of Contemporary Slang is bad along two dimensions, it sounds like - it's making the clues worse because it doesn't have any connection to the world that most people are living in today, and it also contains offensive material that gets transferred without change into the crossword.
posted by sagc at 10:18 AM on June 8, 2017 [10 favorites]

Because man, Jeffries shot-gun approach to outrage made it hard for me to pick out exactly how the NYT xword could be better.... And Adriane doesn't really explain why some of the words that are used in association to non straight-white people are offensive

"I don't get what's wrong. Give me some examples."
"Here's a bunch of examples."
"That's way too many examples, and I don't understand all of them."

Maybe Jeffries isn't the problem there.
posted by Etrigan at 10:26 AM on June 8, 2017 [16 favorites]

"Maybe Jeffries isn't the problem there." Hey, yo, easy there killer. I'm a problem in a lot of situations but I'm trying to not be a problem in this thread. I'm not saying I don't get how the language in the clues is insensitive, I just found one article better than another and tried to be specific in my response. I feel like maybe I came across as concern trolling, I'm sorry I came across that way, that is not my intention.

Leaving the eskimo thing aside (sorry I didn't know a thing). Re: The Dictionary of Contemporary Slang. So I'm getting my British authors of Slang dictionary's mixed up, when I first read the article I thought I had recently listened to the Author of the The Dictionary of Contemporary Slang on Lexicon Valley and he seemed very conscientious of language and aware of the limitations of a dictionary of slang words, but I now see that was Jonathon Green, not Tony Thorne... so I actually won't defend Thorne personally... BUT I still feel the need to defend the author of the FPP linked article just states its filled with cringeworthy inaccuracies without really demonstrating (a) any inaccuracies or (b) how these inaccuracies are more egregious than what is likely going to result from any attempt to bridge the gap between the very transient and vernacular world of slang and the staid world of formal international english. Every slang dictionary is missing new words! Every slang dictionary is outdated as soon as its printed! Dictionaries are never going to keep up with slang, but I'd argue that there should still be attempts to apply whatever standards of rigor an author feels are justifiable to the world of slang to capture these more ephemeral parts of language. Sometimes that means trying to pick out a thread of meaning that sacrifices some of the accuracy but speaks more to its origin, or speaks to how it used in a past, but more lengthy period of time.
posted by midmarch snowman at 11:34 AM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'll second the Private Eye crossword for about as much shade and smut as you can fit in a grid (but if you don't have some fluency in the language of that puzzle, it's pretty opaque even for a cryptic).

It struck me reading the article that crossword clues are a lot like dogwhistle statements (4dn Bad Hombres, 8) and that the setter can express a lot of personality in the clues and answers. So I'll disagree that "Eskimo" is a good answer to include. I have no idea what the politics of that word are, but I'm not publishing it in a national newspaper for the attention of thousands. If I was, I'd find out, and if I goofed, I'd apologise. Words are the job.
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 12:14 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

Not knowing that "Eskimo" - or, for that matter, "homie" or "sissie" - are offensive seems like it's a pretty low bar to clear,

FTR, while those in Canada and Greenland (or at least a significant number of them) regard the term as a slur, it is still a commonly-used term among Alaska Natives in the U.S. Probably not the best point to get all huffy about the obviousness of.
posted by praemunire at 3:08 PM on June 8, 2017 [2 favorites]

Make the jump to cryptics, they're awesome once you get the hang of it.

Yes. Once you do cryptics you never go back. The Times puzzles are like warm beer compared to a good cryptic.
posted by QuietDesperation at 5:00 PM on June 8, 2017 [1 favorite]

Today's was actually pretty good, though 1a "Ultracool person" was bad, and 28a "Parks who stood up for the right to sit down" rubbed me the wrong way. Anyone else?
posted by Admiral Haddock at 5:29 PM on June 8, 2017

Jeffries shot-gun approach to outrage made it hard for me to pick out exactly how the NYT xword could be better

I think her approach helped highlight the common link - the blindspots of the older white men who construct and edit the NYT crosswords - that leads to the failures across multiple domains (eg, uninteresting, racist, sexist, transphobic, etc), and suggests a solution - increased diversity in puzzle constructors and editors.
posted by palindromic at 5:45 PM on June 8, 2017 [7 favorites]

Also, this is not an outrage thing. I am not outraged when I saw a bad feminism joke in the crossword puzzle; I am annoyed. The complaints are by and large from people who regularly do the NY Times crossword, and who will continue to regularly do the NY Times crossword, but who find aspects of it cringe-inducingly out-of-touch with contemporary American life and language usage.
posted by palindromic at 5:48 PM on June 8, 2017 [8 favorites]

Yes, I love the NYTimes crossword and that's why I want it to be better. Outrage = snorting and eye rolling and being bored by repetition
posted by (Over) Thinking at 6:25 PM on June 8, 2017

Most of the criticisms make sense to me, but the one about Ñ does not. Yes, it's considered a distinct letter in Spanish, but it's not part of the English alphabet, and it only occurs in English in a tiny handful of words borrowed from Spanish, which is problematic for a crossword puzzle.

I only know that Ñ is a distinct letter, while (for example) É is not, because I took Spanish in high school. I assume other languages have their own quirks. I don't think it makes sense for a crossword puzzle in one language to obey the orthographic rules of other languages depending on the origin of a given word. If we're going to go down that road, we'd have to insist that "chinchilla" is only seven letters, because CH and LL are considered single letters in Spanish.
posted by shponglespore at 9:49 PM on June 8, 2017 [4 favorites]

Etrigan: "Will Shortz is a giant of the American puzzle landscape who needs to retire before he ossifies completely. "

Yeah, this. He's been doing it long enough, I think. I really liked Eugene Maleska, too, but I was happy when Shortz took over. You just need new blood after a long time.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:20 PM on June 8, 2017

If we're going to go down that road, we'd have to insist that "chinchilla" is only seven letters, because CH and LL are considered single letters in Spanish.

They are not anymore, not since the Real Academia Española's 2010 orthography publication.

I don't think it makes sense for a crossword puzzle in one language to obey the orthographic rules of other languages depending on the origin of a given word.

They're different words though. I cringe every time I have to write down "ANO" (anus) in a puzzle where they meant me to guess "AÑO" (year). It has happened more than once!
posted by chainsofreedom at 9:58 AM on June 9, 2017 [4 favorites]