Six cents of every tax dollar to the moon
August 21, 2017 9:17 PM Subscribe
The Atlantic, August 1963: Two scientists argue that sending men to the moon is worth the cost.
Imagine where we'd be if they hadn't sent men to the moon. Probably still stuck down on earth, getting all excited about solar eclipses seen from the ground, instead of flying out to chill at the earth-sun L2 for something to do on a long weekend.
posted by sfenders at 9:43 PM on August 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by sfenders at 9:43 PM on August 21, 2017 [5 favorites]
If you haven't seen it, check out the views of this and previous eclipses from the ISS. Watching the Giant Shadow move across the Earth is awesome in every meaning of the word.
posted by BeeDo at 9:58 PM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by BeeDo at 9:58 PM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
I hate to give the guy credit, but Jerry Pournelle's "Strategy of Technology" lays out this "Let's build a constellation of space based solar in GEO" thing where we end up for like a nominal investment of tax dollars with enough heavy-lift to send Union Construction Crews to GEO to build the things, and Moon-Vegas for the off-duty R&R. Once we get gambling, sex-workers, and Chinese food on the moon, we're ready to conquer the Universe.
posted by mikelieman at 10:57 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by mikelieman at 10:57 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh, and the hypothetical, "power too cheap to meter", which is THE engine for economic development.
( Full Disclosure, the gambling, sex-workers, and Chinese Food are MY contribution to the project, and not in Pournelle's essay )
posted by mikelieman at 10:58 PM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
( Full Disclosure, the gambling, sex-workers, and Chinese Food are MY contribution to the project, and not in Pournelle's essay )
posted by mikelieman at 10:58 PM on August 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
axiom: " the 1963 budget projection mentioned in the article, would be a $45.5B dollar budget in 2017 dollars, or 2.5x what it actually is"
It was also roughly 6% of US federal tax revenues which in 2016 would have been 198 Billion. The mind boggles at the possibilities.
posted by Mitheral at 12:30 AM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
It was also roughly 6% of US federal tax revenues which in 2016 would have been 198 Billion. The mind boggles at the possibilities.
posted by Mitheral at 12:30 AM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm amused at the pervasive idea in the past that power generation would advance faster than metering.
posted by flaterik at 12:46 AM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by flaterik at 12:46 AM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
Look, say you're in NYC and want to bid on a trip to Australia, but need to take along on the plane your housing, food and water for a month long project. Not economically feasible. Once the infrastructure in orbit or on the moon is built with local materials (asteroid mining, moon water) the real possibilities enter that part of the exponential curve that get everyone so excited. The first trillionaires will be off planet. Bootstrapping is hard, but so worth it.
posted by sammyo at 4:44 AM on August 22, 2017
posted by sammyo at 4:44 AM on August 22, 2017
If we move off planet just so three white dudes can become trillionaires, I will be so pissed. There's already not enough to go around down here with the billionaires hoovering up all the wealth.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:35 AM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:35 AM on August 22, 2017 [5 favorites]
Many years ago, I hear James Burke speak and I remember one thing in particular: more money was spent on lipstick in the US than on the Apollo program during the same period.
posted by plinth at 5:46 AM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by plinth at 5:46 AM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
more money was spent on lipstick in the US than on the Apollo program during the same period.
Putting their money where their mouth is, both literally and figuratively.
Baseball writer Bill James points out (in relation to baseball players' salaries) that we spend on what's important to us. People cry "why do star baseball players get hundreds of millions of dollars when scientists don't?" even though, as he says, people spend much more time thinking and talking about last night's baseball game than going to the Moon(*).
On the other hand, because NASA is government spending there's a one-level disconnect between peoples' priorities and spending there. When surveyed, people think that NASA gets ten times its share of the national budget than it actually does.
(*) Mefites as a group being a likely exception.
posted by Quindar Beep at 6:35 AM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
Putting their money where their mouth is, both literally and figuratively.
Baseball writer Bill James points out (in relation to baseball players' salaries) that we spend on what's important to us. People cry "why do star baseball players get hundreds of millions of dollars when scientists don't?" even though, as he says, people spend much more time thinking and talking about last night's baseball game than going to the Moon(*).
On the other hand, because NASA is government spending there's a one-level disconnect between peoples' priorities and spending there. When surveyed, people think that NASA gets ten times its share of the national budget than it actually does.
(*) Mefites as a group being a likely exception.
posted by Quindar Beep at 6:35 AM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm amused at the pervasive idea in the past that power generation would advance faster than metering.
If power was treated the way 'common goods' have, and could be, it absolutely would have. There aren't tolls on the Interstate system. They didn't charge 'consumers' for usage of broadcast bandwidth. The entire Internet was designed and put in place before AOL gave it's legions access to Usenet.
The 1980 based re-alignment of ideology and language to that of business, of "Shareholders" instead of "Citizens", and the ridiculous belief that the invisible hand of the market is a net good has ruined at least 3 generations ability to dream.
posted by DigDoug at 6:54 AM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
If power was treated the way 'common goods' have, and could be, it absolutely would have. There aren't tolls on the Interstate system. They didn't charge 'consumers' for usage of broadcast bandwidth. The entire Internet was designed and put in place before AOL gave it's legions access to Usenet.
The 1980 based re-alignment of ideology and language to that of business, of "Shareholders" instead of "Citizens", and the ridiculous belief that the invisible hand of the market is a net good has ruined at least 3 generations ability to dream.
posted by DigDoug at 6:54 AM on August 22, 2017 [11 favorites]
people spend much more time thinking and talking about last night's baseball game than going to the Moon
Perhaps its time science stopped convening in hotels behind thousand dollar admission prices and started broadcasting presentations supported by ad revenue.
posted by pwnguin at 1:14 PM on August 22, 2017
Perhaps its time science stopped convening in hotels behind thousand dollar admission prices and started broadcasting presentations supported by ad revenue.
posted by pwnguin at 1:14 PM on August 22, 2017
What people forget about is ALL the discoveries that were made during the efforts to get to the Moon.
They would pay back the cost many, many times if the benefits were quantified in monetry terms.
posted by Burn_IT at 2:28 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
They would pay back the cost many, many times if the benefits were quantified in monetry terms.
posted by Burn_IT at 2:28 PM on August 22, 2017 [2 favorites]
That was an interesting find. I was trying to score predictions but don't know enough to do a really good job.
They were up front about it not being primarily a science mission.
A lot about solar system creation, and I didn't realize the "colliding stars" idea was so common (though I learned it in school). Definitely true space exploration told us a lot about what we think happened. I don't think "the moon as Rosetta stone" prediction is true, nor is it obvious you wouldn't have gotten that with robots.
I was pleasantly surprised to see how jarring it was to get a paragraph about inspiring young students and see the unabashed use of "he" and "him" talking about hypothetical future scientists.
more money was spent on lipstick in the US than on the Apollo program during the same period
This strikes me as unlikely for various reasons. I can't imagine 1% of gdp ever went to lipstick. Certainly if you trust the top google hit on the lipstick market, we're spending almost 3 times as much on NASA today, even with the emaciated budget, than we do globally on lipstick.
posted by mark k at 10:17 PM on August 22, 2017
They were up front about it not being primarily a science mission.
A lot about solar system creation, and I didn't realize the "colliding stars" idea was so common (though I learned it in school). Definitely true space exploration told us a lot about what we think happened. I don't think "the moon as Rosetta stone" prediction is true, nor is it obvious you wouldn't have gotten that with robots.
I was pleasantly surprised to see how jarring it was to get a paragraph about inspiring young students and see the unabashed use of "he" and "him" talking about hypothetical future scientists.
more money was spent on lipstick in the US than on the Apollo program during the same period
This strikes me as unlikely for various reasons. I can't imagine 1% of gdp ever went to lipstick. Certainly if you trust the top google hit on the lipstick market, we're spending almost 3 times as much on NASA today, even with the emaciated budget, than we do globally on lipstick.
posted by mark k at 10:17 PM on August 22, 2017
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posted by axiom at 9:22 PM on August 21, 2017 [7 favorites]