The big fight
August 26, 2017 11:20 AM Subscribe
Floyd Mayweather and Conor McGregor will face off tonight in what is expected to be the most lucrative boxing match, with the most bets laid, in history.
There is a great deal of scepticism about McGregor's chances and concerns have been expressed for his safety in the ring. The fighter himself is demonstrating his usual levels of pre-fight confidence.
With questions being asked about the characters of both men (and in the case of Mayweather his history of domestic violence), some would argue that no one should watch the fight at all.
Previously.
There is a great deal of scepticism about McGregor's chances and concerns have been expressed for his safety in the ring. The fighter himself is demonstrating his usual levels of pre-fight confidence.
With questions being asked about the characters of both men (and in the case of Mayweather his history of domestic violence), some would argue that no one should watch the fight at all.
Previously.
Related: A Very Realistic Video Game Simulation Of Mayweather vs McGregor [Kotaku] [YouTube] posted by Fizz at 11:33 AM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Hundreds of millions of dollars paid to two violent assholes, to beat the shit out of each other for entertainment. We make the Roman empire seem like rank amateurs. Pathetic.
posted by dbiedny at 11:35 AM on August 26, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by dbiedny at 11:35 AM on August 26, 2017 [27 favorites]
We make the Roman empire seem like rank amateurs. Pathetic.
Romans would wonder why we didn't have wild animals on the undercard.
I think Mayweather tales a fall in the 4th.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:41 AM on August 26, 2017 [15 favorites]
Romans would wonder why we didn't have wild animals on the undercard.
I think Mayweather tales a fall in the 4th.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:41 AM on August 26, 2017 [15 favorites]
We make the Roman empire seem like rank amateurs.
Yeah, a highly controlled sport with clear rules in which people voluntarily participate is much worse than making slaves murder each other or die by wild animals.
posted by Sangermaine at 11:45 AM on August 26, 2017 [109 favorites]
Yeah, a highly controlled sport with clear rules in which people voluntarily participate is much worse than making slaves murder each other or die by wild animals.
posted by Sangermaine at 11:45 AM on August 26, 2017 [109 favorites]
That Vox article is really worth reading:
“This is a very tumultuous situation, because this is not just an event, this is a fight. You have a president like Donald Trump saying there were bad people on “many sides” in Charlottesville, but what about the side that incited the violence that killed Heather Heyer? The United States is supposed to be leading the world toward racial equality, and instead we’re making international headlines for racial unrest and inequality. And now we’re watching a fight premised on violence — which includes participation of violence toward women — as well as violence related to race, between whites and blacks. That’s a problem.”posted by Fizz at 11:55 AM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
They'll dance around each other without causing much damage either way, and Mayweather will walk away with a decision and his perfect record intact. I would be surprised if the whole thing is completely agreed to ahead of time. Neither of these guys have any interest in risking anything; they get paid either way.
It'll be Pacquiao all over again.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:59 AM on August 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
It'll be Pacquiao all over again.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:59 AM on August 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
We make the Roman empire seem like rank amateurs.
At least their crazy emperors had the good sense to properly pay the Praetorian Guard.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:01 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
At least their crazy emperors had the good sense to properly pay the Praetorian Guard.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:01 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
For The Love Of God, Do Not Pay For The Mayweather-McGregor Fight
The Trouble With Floyd Mayweather
posted by TedW at 12:06 PM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
The Trouble With Floyd Mayweather
posted by TedW at 12:06 PM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
the most bets laid, in history.
Who in the fuck point all is betting on this fight? You've got one of the three or four greatest pound-for-pound boxers in the history of the sport -- granted, he is a bit over the hill, but even if he's a decrepit 75 percent of what he was, then he's still one of the best in the game today -- going up against someone who has never had a professional boxing match and whose training camp videos make him look like maybe CM Punk would have a legit chance against him right now.
So how in the sandy hell of Vegas do you put money on Conor McGregor? I mean, there's an ROI on the fucking Powerball where it makes sense, but this? If I were a sports book and McGregor won, I'd immediately freeze all bets pending an NSAC investigation, and even if it came up 100 percent clean, I still wouldn't pay out, because it is fucking ridiculous that this thing is even happening. I would literally rather place a bet on Drago to go the distance against Balboa, because who knows, maybe there's a Rocky IV director's cut out there somewhere.
By the way, there's an extra quote on the end of that "most bets laid" link.
posted by Etrigan at 12:09 PM on August 26, 2017 [24 favorites]
Who in the fuck point all is betting on this fight? You've got one of the three or four greatest pound-for-pound boxers in the history of the sport -- granted, he is a bit over the hill, but even if he's a decrepit 75 percent of what he was, then he's still one of the best in the game today -- going up against someone who has never had a professional boxing match and whose training camp videos make him look like maybe CM Punk would have a legit chance against him right now.
So how in the sandy hell of Vegas do you put money on Conor McGregor? I mean, there's an ROI on the fucking Powerball where it makes sense, but this? If I were a sports book and McGregor won, I'd immediately freeze all bets pending an NSAC investigation, and even if it came up 100 percent clean, I still wouldn't pay out, because it is fucking ridiculous that this thing is even happening. I would literally rather place a bet on Drago to go the distance against Balboa, because who knows, maybe there's a Rocky IV director's cut out there somewhere.
By the way, there's an extra quote on the end of that "most bets laid" link.
posted by Etrigan at 12:09 PM on August 26, 2017 [24 favorites]
I've said it before in a previous comment on the subject. I fully recognize how terrible this sport is. Everything about the culture of boxing is distasteful and gross (money, violence, exploitation,etc). And yet, there's a part of myself that likes these types of matches, that I want to tune in for. I hate that part of myself.
posted by Fizz at 12:12 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Fizz at 12:12 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thankfully, I'm at work tonight. I'll hear about the results and watch a few highlights. I'm not supporting this spectacle in any way.
posted by Fizz at 12:14 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by Fizz at 12:14 PM on August 26, 2017
I've been at a convention all day so I'll be taking an early night... My guess is they will dance around each other to stop the fans moaning if there's an early finish but it'll be a TKO to Mayweather in the 8th (also he won't want to risk a lucky punch by going for a knock-out in an earlier round)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:20 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:20 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Calling this a race based fight is pretty ridiculous. It's MMA vs boxing, which fans of MMA have been dying to see for years and years (McGregor is still going to get killed and MMA fans are delusional). I'll be watching this tonight in a group of big MMA fans with people of just about every race and from every walk of life you can think of and from several countries, all of whom will be 100% behind McGregor (they're nuts but they've been waiting years for a chance to prove MMA is just as good as boxing). The taunts are all part of the show, it's all bullshit. The dumb motivation behind this fight has been firmly in place for a long time- decades. Well before Charlottesville.
McGregor isn't even American for Pete's sake, not are most of his fans. They don't even know much about boxing typically and they'd be just as happy with any top MMA fighter getting a shot at a boxer.
posted by fshgrl at 12:32 PM on August 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
McGregor isn't even American for Pete's sake, not are most of his fans. They don't even know much about boxing typically and they'd be just as happy with any top MMA fighter getting a shot at a boxer.
posted by fshgrl at 12:32 PM on August 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
If I were a sports book and McGregor won, I'd immediately freeze all bets pending an NSAC investigation, and even if it came up 100 percent clean, I still wouldn't pay out, because it is fucking ridiculous that this thing is even happening.
Which would be hypocritical since you accepted the bets in the first place.
posted by parliboy at 12:32 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Which would be hypocritical since you accepted the bets in the first place.
posted by parliboy at 12:32 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
On the Against All Odds podcast, Cousin Sal said 93% of the money is coming in on McGregor. I mean holy shit, this could be one of the worst nights for the casinos since Oceans 11.
But I haven't heard anyone with any expertise say that Conor will win a single round let alone the whole fight. Where is this money coming from and why? I am honestly expecting something insane to happen like a sucker punch when they come out to touch gloves. How else can this end in anything but a KO for Mayweather (I firmly believe he will not toy with Connor and go to a decision).
posted by paulcole at 12:34 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
But I haven't heard anyone with any expertise say that Conor will win a single round let alone the whole fight. Where is this money coming from and why? I am honestly expecting something insane to happen like a sucker punch when they come out to touch gloves. How else can this end in anything but a KO for Mayweather (I firmly believe he will not toy with Connor and go to a decision).
posted by paulcole at 12:34 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
MMA true believers and Irish fans who travelled. Also the return on Mayweather isn't great.
posted by fshgrl at 12:38 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by fshgrl at 12:38 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
There will be at least one great moment from tonight - Imelda May will sing Amhrán na bhFiann before the fight.
posted by roolya_boolya at 12:41 PM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by roolya_boolya at 12:41 PM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
This may be a silly question, since I know nothing about these two sports, but -- if this is a boxing match under boxing rules, why would they think the guy from the other sport will do better here? He's good at something different from boxing. Like, MMA includes a bunch of grapply stuff you can't do in boxing, right?
If this were going to be an MMA match instead, wouldn't Mayweather be at a disadvantage there just because the rules are different from the specific thing he's trained for?
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:42 PM on August 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
If this were going to be an MMA match instead, wouldn't Mayweather be at a disadvantage there just because the rules are different from the specific thing he's trained for?
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:42 PM on August 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
In my head I pictured Imelda Marcos as the singer, that would be fascinating TV.
posted by biffa at 12:45 PM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by biffa at 12:45 PM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
why would they think the guy from the other sport will do better here?
Mayweather hasn't fought in 2 years I think... and he's getting on a bit. McGregor's got a decent punch. McGregor will also probably box southpaw and Mayweather has depending on who you listen to 'struggled' against southpaws. 'Puncher's chance'. 'Luck of the Irish' etc etc.
I will be very shocked if McGregor gets even close to a victory. But's it's boxing - anything could happen.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:51 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Mayweather hasn't fought in 2 years I think... and he's getting on a bit. McGregor's got a decent punch. McGregor will also probably box southpaw and Mayweather has depending on who you listen to 'struggled' against southpaws. 'Puncher's chance'. 'Luck of the Irish' etc etc.
I will be very shocked if McGregor gets even close to a victory. But's it's boxing - anything could happen.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:51 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Is there a prop bet available that someone will run in with a steel chair?
posted by delfin at 12:54 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by delfin at 12:54 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
This may be a silly question, since I know nothing about these two sports, but -- if this is a boxing match under boxing rules, why would they think the guy from the other sport will do better here?
Faith. No logical reason. Boxing looks down on MMA and MMA fans, who are much more dedicated to the sport than boxing fans are, are dying for validation.
A lot of boxing fans are casuals like the Filipinos who supported Packy maniacally but had never seen another bout in their lives. MMA fans watch every bout, they don't just back fighters for national pride or whatever. The Irish army in Vegas now is real unusual for an MMA fighter who's supporters are generally drawn from a diverse group. Very. I watched some Rousey fights with a group of fans that includes everything from tattooed Latino bikers to white suburban housewives .
Rousey also got her ass kicked by a professional boxer but we've all conveniently forgotten that.
posted by fshgrl at 12:54 PM on August 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
Faith. No logical reason. Boxing looks down on MMA and MMA fans, who are much more dedicated to the sport than boxing fans are, are dying for validation.
A lot of boxing fans are casuals like the Filipinos who supported Packy maniacally but had never seen another bout in their lives. MMA fans watch every bout, they don't just back fighters for national pride or whatever. The Irish army in Vegas now is real unusual for an MMA fighter who's supporters are generally drawn from a diverse group. Very. I watched some Rousey fights with a group of fans that includes everything from tattooed Latino bikers to white suburban housewives .
Rousey also got her ass kicked by a professional boxer but we've all conveniently forgotten that.
posted by fshgrl at 12:54 PM on August 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
How else can this end in anything but a KO for Mayweather (I firmly believe he will not toy with Connor and go to a decision).
This may be a silly question, since I know nothing about these two sports, but -- if this is a boxing match under boxing rules, why would they think the guy from the other sport will do better here? He's good at something different from boxing. Like, MMA includes a bunch of grapply stuff you can't do in boxing, right?
Conor fans have hundreds of predictions about what advantages he has. Some of the more popular ones are:
-He will weigh 20lbs more than Floyd at the fight
-He will use "outrageous martial arts stances" that confuse Floyd into forgetting to defend himself
-8oz gloves mean he takes Floyd's head off
-Floyd is too old and/or hasn't KO'd anyone in a long time
-Floyd didn't train for the fight
-"Anything can happen after all look at the election"
-Conor has the mental power to create success through force of will/work ethic (people actually believe this)
-Floyd takes a dive to set up a bigger payday on rematch
-Conor uses dirty fighting tactics that the ref isn't used to
Plus everyone loves an underdog and Conor has a TV-perfect rags to riches backstory, add in a good amount of wishful thinking and MMA vs boxing rivalry multiplied by some of the biggest media hype a fight has had in many years and there you have it. Conor's gimmick is also being a big mouth and doing pro-wrestling style pre-fight hype and trash talk etc. 99% chance that a lot of MMA fans are going to be disappointed by how much less exciting high-level boxing is for people who like MMA. But if that 1% chance happens and Floyd gets KO'd, Conor will be the biggest name (and biggest wallet) there ever was- that's the 1% chance Conor fans are betting on.
posted by Hiding From Goro at 12:57 PM on August 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
This may be a silly question, since I know nothing about these two sports, but -- if this is a boxing match under boxing rules, why would they think the guy from the other sport will do better here? He's good at something different from boxing. Like, MMA includes a bunch of grapply stuff you can't do in boxing, right?
Conor fans have hundreds of predictions about what advantages he has. Some of the more popular ones are:
-He will weigh 20lbs more than Floyd at the fight
-He will use "outrageous martial arts stances" that confuse Floyd into forgetting to defend himself
-8oz gloves mean he takes Floyd's head off
-Floyd is too old and/or hasn't KO'd anyone in a long time
-Floyd didn't train for the fight
-"Anything can happen after all look at the election"
-Conor has the mental power to create success through force of will/work ethic (people actually believe this)
-Floyd takes a dive to set up a bigger payday on rematch
-Conor uses dirty fighting tactics that the ref isn't used to
Plus everyone loves an underdog and Conor has a TV-perfect rags to riches backstory, add in a good amount of wishful thinking and MMA vs boxing rivalry multiplied by some of the biggest media hype a fight has had in many years and there you have it. Conor's gimmick is also being a big mouth and doing pro-wrestling style pre-fight hype and trash talk etc. 99% chance that a lot of MMA fans are going to be disappointed by how much less exciting high-level boxing is for people who like MMA. But if that 1% chance happens and Floyd gets KO'd, Conor will be the biggest name (and biggest wallet) there ever was- that's the 1% chance Conor fans are betting on.
posted by Hiding From Goro at 12:57 PM on August 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
If the fight goes more than three rounds, it'll be because Vince McMahon slipped Mayweather enough money to end his tax troubles, because WWE wants to put over an MMA guy to replace Brock Lesnar when Lesnar goes back to UFC.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 12:58 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 12:58 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
It should, so easily, be Mayweather. But if Leicester City can win the Premiership...
posted by Wordshore at 1:04 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Wordshore at 1:04 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Conor has the mental power to create success through force of will/work ethic (people actually believe this)
Huge overlap between MMA and cross fit types/ sales people/ entrepreneurs/ passive income people etc. He's definitely their spirit animal.
posted by fshgrl at 1:05 PM on August 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
Huge overlap between MMA and cross fit types/ sales people/ entrepreneurs/ passive income people etc. He's definitely their spirit animal.
posted by fshgrl at 1:05 PM on August 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
why would they think the guy from the other sport will do better here?
It's a pretty old story in boxing. McGregor is white. Mayweather is Black. Still, 93% of betting money on McGregor winning? Wow.
posted by rdr at 1:05 PM on August 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
It's a pretty old story in boxing. McGregor is white. Mayweather is Black. Still, 93% of betting money on McGregor winning? Wow.
posted by rdr at 1:05 PM on August 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
paulcole: But I haven't heard anyone with any expertise say that Conor will win a single round let alone the whole fight. Where is this money coming from and why?
This morning on the radio, they said that the average bet on Mayweather is $8,000, while the average bet on McGregor is $200. The money is coming from average fans.
I'll make my bet here: It's going to be a boring fight that goes 12 rounds. Both of them are counterpunchers; fantastic timing and accuracy when the other guy is coming at them, but they both need the other guy to come at them. And for the past decade, in all but one fight, Mayweather has been the master of smothering the other boxer and sucking all the oxygen out of the ring. He dominates, but his fragile hands mean that he hasn't been able to deliver a knockout blow or deliver enough volume to hurt another fighter for years. Video editors will be struggling to get enough clips for a highlight reel after the fight.
A much better - and more important - boxing match will be happening on September 16th, also between a dominant older fighter with a perfect record and a charismatic younger fighter with a single loss. The major problem with that fight is that both boxers are excellent in the ring but don't have an exceptional Twitter game.
posted by clawsoon at 1:06 PM on August 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
This morning on the radio, they said that the average bet on Mayweather is $8,000, while the average bet on McGregor is $200. The money is coming from average fans.
I'll make my bet here: It's going to be a boring fight that goes 12 rounds. Both of them are counterpunchers; fantastic timing and accuracy when the other guy is coming at them, but they both need the other guy to come at them. And for the past decade, in all but one fight, Mayweather has been the master of smothering the other boxer and sucking all the oxygen out of the ring. He dominates, but his fragile hands mean that he hasn't been able to deliver a knockout blow or deliver enough volume to hurt another fighter for years. Video editors will be struggling to get enough clips for a highlight reel after the fight.
A much better - and more important - boxing match will be happening on September 16th, also between a dominant older fighter with a perfect record and a charismatic younger fighter with a single loss. The major problem with that fight is that both boxers are excellent in the ring but don't have an exceptional Twitter game.
posted by clawsoon at 1:06 PM on August 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
The Irish army in Vegas now is real unusual for an MMA fighter who's supporters are generally drawn from a diverse group.
As a nation we like nothing more than travelling abroad to support the green at sporting events so that's probably skewing the numbers a lot. There will be many 'Olé, Olé, Olé's heard in Vegas tonight.
posted by roolya_boolya at 1:09 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
As a nation we like nothing more than travelling abroad to support the green at sporting events so that's probably skewing the numbers a lot. There will be many 'Olé, Olé, Olé's heard in Vegas tonight.
posted by roolya_boolya at 1:09 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
What would be interesting is having a rematch, but with MMA rules.
posted by AFABulous at 1:10 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by AFABulous at 1:10 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
When I was a kid, we knew of boxing at the time of Ali and Frazier. There was also Kung Fu thanks to Bruce Lee films. I did not realize that boxing is, duh, a martial art, but one among very many, each of them with many interesting characteristics. Although boxing was a largely Afro-American sport at the time, it had come from the British Empire, and had really odd and restrictive rules compared with many other schools. So I'm really interested in tonight from a historical point of view. If McGregor wins, its over for boxing, and whether he does or not, boxing will now necessarily be compared to many other disciplines. I guess that's good.
posted by stonepharisee at 1:16 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 1:16 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't think 93% of betting money is on mcgregor, stats here from betfair show 80% on mayweather.
posted by JonB at 1:19 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by JonB at 1:19 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Based on the $8,000-vs-$200 number, I expect that 93% of the bets (by count) are on McGregor, but 80% of the money (by amount) is on Mayweather.
posted by clawsoon at 1:22 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 1:22 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, look at the odds. There can't be more money on McGregor because he's not the favourite.
posted by fshgrl at 1:22 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by fshgrl at 1:22 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
The effect of this fight will be good if you don't like boxing. People who only tune in when a Mayweather-sized promotional juggernaut rolls through will say, "Huh, the last two boxing matches I watched were duds. I guess boxing really does suck nowadays."
posted by clawsoon at 1:24 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 1:24 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
What would be interesting is having a rematch, but with MMA rules.
The heavens would rain money for that but Mayweather would be insane to take it up.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:27 PM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
The heavens would rain money for that but Mayweather would be insane to take it up.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:27 PM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
I admit that I don't know much about boxing, but I've been under the impression that every major boxing match has been fixed for a quite a while now. Accurate or not? People have mentioned the possibility of Mayweather taking a fall, or letting it go an extra three rounds, but other people are talking about athleticism here. Is everyone just kind of speculating about an outcome that was already decided, and simply hasn't been revealed to us yet?
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 1:27 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 1:27 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Mayweather would be insane to take it up
More insane than McGregor is to do this fight?
posted by roolya_boolya at 1:28 PM on August 26, 2017
More insane than McGregor is to do this fight?
posted by roolya_boolya at 1:28 PM on August 26, 2017
Romans would wonder why we didn't have wild animals on the undercard.
Well it's a hot dog eating contest but there's always Kobayashi vs. An Actual Bear from one of the linked articles.
posted by Hiding From Goro at 1:31 PM on August 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
Well it's a hot dog eating contest but there's always Kobayashi vs. An Actual Bear from one of the linked articles.
posted by Hiding From Goro at 1:31 PM on August 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
More insane than McGregor is to do this fight?
Oh yeah, definitely. He's older and has a lot of injuries and he's not going to adapt gloves-wise or movement wise at all.
MMA management is kinda dumb though, they've had this amazing year long duel going on between Woodley and Wonderboy for the welterweight title and all the attention has been on these dumb stunt fights. Woodley has a legitimate grievance there.
posted by fshgrl at 1:35 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh yeah, definitely. He's older and has a lot of injuries and he's not going to adapt gloves-wise or movement wise at all.
MMA management is kinda dumb though, they've had this amazing year long duel going on between Woodley and Wonderboy for the welterweight title and all the attention has been on these dumb stunt fights. Woodley has a legitimate grievance there.
posted by fshgrl at 1:35 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Hmm. A racist vs. a guy who hits women. Maybe I'll root for the ceiling falling in on them both.
posted by pracowity at 1:37 PM on August 26, 2017 [30 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 1:37 PM on August 26, 2017 [30 favorites]
I mean, the race stuff is because Conor McGregor has said stuff like "I'm black below the belt" and talked about other fighters as "dancing monkeys." It's not a huge stretch.
They're both assholes, I hate that I'm interested in the outcome, but clearly Mayweather is going to take this. McGregor is a good MMA fighter, but he's not a boxer.
posted by ChuraChura at 1:38 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
They're both assholes, I hate that I'm interested in the outcome, but clearly Mayweather is going to take this. McGregor is a good MMA fighter, but he's not a boxer.
posted by ChuraChura at 1:38 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
The most interesting part of this match will be the running battle between the broadcasters and the illegal Youtube streamers. I can't wait, it will be a fantastic battle, combining technical skill and brute force. My money's on the illegal streamers to last until the 7th.
posted by Jimbob at 1:40 PM on August 26, 2017 [20 favorites]
posted by Jimbob at 1:40 PM on August 26, 2017 [20 favorites]
casuals like the Filipinos who supported Packy maniacally but had never seen another bout in their lives
Mayweather is a master of turning jingoism and wishful thinking into cash.
posted by benzenedream at 1:40 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Mayweather is a master of turning jingoism and wishful thinking into cash.
posted by benzenedream at 1:40 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
More insane than McGregor is to do this fight?
McGregor's got nothing to loose really here, if he manages not to be a total joke (like get hammered and go down in the first) his fans will still love him. Also he has, even if v limited compared to Mayweather, boxing skills.
Mayweather has zilch MMA skills apart from boxing and would struggle to get any sort of ground game given his age etc. His fans and boxing fans in general would be less forgiving. And in MMA he'd get a lot less protection from the ref than in a boxing match (with thinner gloves). He could get proper injured.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:57 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
McGregor's got nothing to loose really here, if he manages not to be a total joke (like get hammered and go down in the first) his fans will still love him. Also he has, even if v limited compared to Mayweather, boxing skills.
Mayweather has zilch MMA skills apart from boxing and would struggle to get any sort of ground game given his age etc. His fans and boxing fans in general would be less forgiving. And in MMA he'd get a lot less protection from the ref than in a boxing match (with thinner gloves). He could get proper injured.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:57 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Fuck these two assholes. I'd rather watch Rocky Balboa fight Thunderflips again.
posted by Ber at 1:58 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Ber at 1:58 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
My money's on the illegal streamers to last until the 7th.
AceStreamers quietly sitting on the side of the ring, and at the moment the bout is about to be called BAW GAWD IT'S ACE STREAMSKI WITH THE STEEL CHAIR TAKING THE BELT AWAY.
(and then it might end with the feds taking Streamski away in a van)
posted by lmfsilva at 2:02 PM on August 26, 2017
AceStreamers quietly sitting on the side of the ring, and at the moment the bout is about to be called BAW GAWD IT'S ACE STREAMSKI WITH THE STEEL CHAIR TAKING THE BELT AWAY.
(and then it might end with the feds taking Streamski away in a van)
posted by lmfsilva at 2:02 PM on August 26, 2017
Not that I care much for Mayweather, but holy shit does this country not need a massive public spectacle of a racist white asshole beating up a black man right now. I hope Mayweather puts him down in an embarrassing way. That said, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the result is predetermined.
posted by IAmUnaware at 2:03 PM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by IAmUnaware at 2:03 PM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
shapes that haunt the dusk: I admit that I don't know much about boxing, but I've been under the impression that every major boxing match has been fixed for a quite a while now.
If they are fixed, then the fixers have gotten better at picking the better boxer before the fight. There's the occasional questionable scorecard or bad refereeing, but I'm sure that, say, Klitschko didn't take an intentional fall against Fury, and Khan didn't have a gentleman's agreement to take this from Alvarez.
In this case, the marks have been pouring money in for the underdog, so there's no need for any fixing. Put your big money on the favourite, and watch the dumb money roll in.
posted by clawsoon at 2:04 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
If they are fixed, then the fixers have gotten better at picking the better boxer before the fight. There's the occasional questionable scorecard or bad refereeing, but I'm sure that, say, Klitschko didn't take an intentional fall against Fury, and Khan didn't have a gentleman's agreement to take this from Alvarez.
In this case, the marks have been pouring money in for the underdog, so there's no need for any fixing. Put your big money on the favourite, and watch the dumb money roll in.
posted by clawsoon at 2:04 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Like Floyd says, there isn't really a loser in a fight like this where even the guy who gets knocked out is paid more than $30 million.
posted by Hiding From Goro at 2:06 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Hiding From Goro at 2:06 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
At least their crazy emperors had the good sense to properly pay the Praetorian Guard.
But were the gold and alabaster port-a-privies really necessary?
posted by Behemoth at 2:20 PM on August 26, 2017
But were the gold and alabaster port-a-privies really necessary?
posted by Behemoth at 2:20 PM on August 26, 2017
I'm putting pretty long odds on myself somehow watching the fight tomorrow without seeing the result first
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:21 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:21 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
The night of the fight, you may feel a slight sting. That's pride fucking with you.
posted by thelonius at 2:39 PM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 2:39 PM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
Mod note: couple comments deleted. Please skip the implication that all Italians are mafiosi. Also if your feeling about this is "who cares" or "there shouldn't be boxing", that's totally fair but please just skip the thread.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:39 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:39 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
I didn't know beans about McGregor so I watched some video. Unless Floyd's skills and reaction time have seriously eroded and he has descended into pugilistic dementia, it looks like no contest. That arms akimbo, lumbering, wide swinging stuff will get you killed in a ring with a real boxer. And Floyd is as real as they get. That said, McGregor has power so there is always the proverbial "puncher's chance". Still, I inexpertly predict Floyd paints him like a barn door and frustrates the hell out of him for as long as it lasts...
posted by jim in austin at 2:48 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 2:48 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Like Floyd says, there isn't really a loser in a fight like this where even the guy who gets knocked out is paid more than $30 million.
I dunno, you couldn't pay me enough to have CTE.
posted by AFABulous at 2:49 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
While we're pulling boxers out of retirement for stunt fights with non-boxers, I would happily pay to see Mike Tyson vs. Paul Ryan. Mike is past his prime, and Paul Ryan is a notorious gym rat!, so anything could happen.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 2:50 PM on August 26, 2017 [41 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 2:50 PM on August 26, 2017 [41 favorites]
jim in austin: Unless Floyd's skills and reaction time have seriously eroded and he has descended into pugilistic dementia
I was just thinking about the fact that Mayweather is probably the boxer least likely to get dementia. He takes hard hits to the head so rarely that people have to dig back for that one time that Mosley got one good punch on him in 2010.
posted by clawsoon at 2:55 PM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
I was just thinking about the fact that Mayweather is probably the boxer least likely to get dementia. He takes hard hits to the head so rarely that people have to dig back for that one time that Mosley got one good punch on him in 2010.
posted by clawsoon at 2:55 PM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm putting pretty long odds on myself somehow watching the fight tomorrow without seeing the result first
If the fight goes as long as some expect, you might find the whole thing on Imgur in .gif form.
posted by delfin at 2:58 PM on August 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
If the fight goes as long as some expect, you might find the whole thing on Imgur in .gif form.
posted by delfin at 2:58 PM on August 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
I thought about putting a hundred bucks on McGregor just because of the odds, but a brief and perfunctory Google search indicates that online gambling is way more complicated than I can be arsed to deal with.
posted by infinitywaltz at 3:03 PM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by infinitywaltz at 3:03 PM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
delfin: If the fight goes as long as some expect, you might find the whole thing on Imgur in .gif form.
I don't know why anyone - other than incredibly optimistic McGregor fans - would predict a short fight. Mayweather is a completely dominant fighter, but he always wins on points nowadays (the sucker punch against Ortiz aside). Think of him as the greatest Olympic-style fighter to enter a professional ring. Mayweather wins because he connects ~50% of the time while his opponents connect ~20% of the time. He scores points, stays safe, and wins rounds. He's a defensive genius, not someone who sends his opponents home early.
posted by clawsoon at 3:11 PM on August 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
I don't know why anyone - other than incredibly optimistic McGregor fans - would predict a short fight. Mayweather is a completely dominant fighter, but he always wins on points nowadays (the sucker punch against Ortiz aside). Think of him as the greatest Olympic-style fighter to enter a professional ring. Mayweather wins because he connects ~50% of the time while his opponents connect ~20% of the time. He scores points, stays safe, and wins rounds. He's a defensive genius, not someone who sends his opponents home early.
posted by clawsoon at 3:11 PM on August 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
I live in LV so thought about putting a bet on Mayweather, figuring that it'd be worth a small amount of risk to take money from people betting on McGregor just because he's Irish/white or they really like MMA, but even with all the talk of the McGregor being such an underdog, the money line on Mayweather is about -350 or -400, meaning you'd have to risk $350 or $400 to make a $100 profit on a Mayweather win. At those odds, I'd be more worried about some weird black swan event, not worth it.
posted by skewed at 3:14 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by skewed at 3:14 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
As Mayweather's abused ex said, "Floyd doesn’t put himself in a position where he can lose." That applies as much to his fighting style as to his life.
posted by clawsoon at 3:23 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 3:23 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
rdr:
It's a pretty old story in boxing. McGregor is white. Mayweather is Black
Good point. Here's a bit of history; it's worth a look: Boxing's 108-year search for a great white hope.
Additionally, many of McGregor's accomplishments in MMA are undeniable, but one can argue that the opportunities he received to rise to the top of the UFC featherweight and lightweight divisions are, in part, due to the color of his skin. Other UFC fighters with better records, more legitimate title claims, and darker skin were not afforded the same opportunities.
posted by el gran combo at 3:25 PM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's a pretty old story in boxing. McGregor is white. Mayweather is Black
Good point. Here's a bit of history; it's worth a look: Boxing's 108-year search for a great white hope.
Additionally, many of McGregor's accomplishments in MMA are undeniable, but one can argue that the opportunities he received to rise to the top of the UFC featherweight and lightweight divisions are, in part, due to the color of his skin. Other UFC fighters with better records, more legitimate title claims, and darker skin were not afforded the same opportunities.
posted by el gran combo at 3:25 PM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
Fanman by double maceration in the 3rd.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 3:32 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 3:32 PM on August 26, 2017
If the fight goes as long as some expect, you might find the whole thing on Imgur in .gif form.
This is how I watched the last Rousey fight. Within minutes it was all over...imgur.
posted by Fizz at 3:34 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is how I watched the last Rousey fight. Within minutes it was all over...imgur.
posted by Fizz at 3:34 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
One thing you can say in Mayweather's favour is that he has beaten a system that was designed to exploit him. His only chance to get rich was supposed to be in exchange for bloody, senseless violence that kept PPV fans entertained while leaving him battered and brain-damaged. Instead, he got rich with brilliant promotion up front - the ultimate heel with the ultimate record - and safe, boring fights on the side. He keeps the fans coming back with the hope that this time, surely, something horrible and entertaining will happen to him, as per the unstated bargain. But he beats the system each time.
posted by clawsoon at 3:56 PM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 3:56 PM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
Anybody know of any . . . . non-legal ways to watch this thing?
posted by R.F.Simpson at 4:10 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by R.F.Simpson at 4:10 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Anybody know of any . . . . non-legal ways to watch this thing?
If you watch a couple youtube videos about the fight 90% of your recommended videos will be bootleg streams lol
posted by Hiding From Goro at 4:13 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
If you watch a couple youtube videos about the fight 90% of your recommended videos will be bootleg streams lol
posted by Hiding From Goro at 4:13 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm going to try my luck at /r/boxingstreams.
posted by egregious theorem at 4:15 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by egregious theorem at 4:15 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Also I can't imagine there will be a lack of torrents posted 5 minutes after it's over. But like the others said about gifs and Imgur, if somehow Mayweather gets knocked out it will be the only thing you'll be able to see anywhere on TV or the internet for a long time.
posted by Hiding From Goro at 4:16 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Hiding From Goro at 4:16 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I hear that one of the cable companies is all hands on deck right now because one of their major call centers in India is closed because of riots in the city.
posted by double bubble at 4:21 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by double bubble at 4:21 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
R.F.Simpson: Anybody know of any . . . . non-legal ways to watch this thing?
You'll have a more entertaining evening if you track down a bootleg of Thurman vs. Porter and watch it instead.
posted by clawsoon at 4:45 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
You'll have a more entertaining evening if you track down a bootleg of Thurman vs. Porter and watch it instead.
posted by clawsoon at 4:45 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mayweather's 10 year-old son, about the violence he witnessed his father inflict on his mom: “I saw my dad was on my mom and my mom said go to the office my dad was hitting her… my dad kick my mom and he told me to go in my room.” Floyd got 90 days for that assault.
As with the last Mayweather fight, I'll be watching movies instead and donating to Safe Nest, a domestic violence shelter and advocacy group in Las Vegas.
I love boxing, but fuck Floyd Mayweather.
posted by incessant at 5:30 PM on August 26, 2017 [30 favorites]
As with the last Mayweather fight, I'll be watching movies instead and donating to Safe Nest, a domestic violence shelter and advocacy group in Las Vegas.
I love boxing, but fuck Floyd Mayweather.
posted by incessant at 5:30 PM on August 26, 2017 [30 favorites]
Anecdote...
Spring break my junior year some friends and I head south and do stupid. We camped in the Carolinas in March, tried to get into Disney bars underage, etc.
One stop was in Ybor City where we found a bar spotty enough to let us in. Bar also had a ring where you could go up, put on giant gloves and box your friends drunk. Fun, right?
So we're on the town and 20 years old and don't have two pieces of good judgment to rub together. And the guy on the mic is getting everyone pumped up, and as we watch a couple rounds of out-of-town goofballs like ourselves, we start talking to each other about maybe doing this.
As we're sipping, talking, doing stupid, there's a guy up there about as stupid as us. But it's just him and he's kinda waiting as he bounces around with the dumb gloves on. Then the MC throws a curve ball:
"Since Billy Bob here doesn't have an opponent, our bar back is going to hop in and help him out...
In this corner, our bar back, amateur boxer, Mike, Golden Guns Gonzales..."
And we slowly sober up as Billy Bob gets his face inverted.
No real take away here, except that Mssr. McGregor is the (albeit much better compensated) Billy Bob in tonight's story.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 7:07 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Spring break my junior year some friends and I head south and do stupid. We camped in the Carolinas in March, tried to get into Disney bars underage, etc.
One stop was in Ybor City where we found a bar spotty enough to let us in. Bar also had a ring where you could go up, put on giant gloves and box your friends drunk. Fun, right?
So we're on the town and 20 years old and don't have two pieces of good judgment to rub together. And the guy on the mic is getting everyone pumped up, and as we watch a couple rounds of out-of-town goofballs like ourselves, we start talking to each other about maybe doing this.
As we're sipping, talking, doing stupid, there's a guy up there about as stupid as us. But it's just him and he's kinda waiting as he bounces around with the dumb gloves on. Then the MC throws a curve ball:
"Since Billy Bob here doesn't have an opponent, our bar back is going to hop in and help him out...
In this corner, our bar back, amateur boxer, Mike, Golden Guns Gonzales..."
And we slowly sober up as Billy Bob gets his face inverted.
No real take away here, except that Mssr. McGregor is the (albeit much better compensated) Billy Bob in tonight's story.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 7:07 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
I really just want Mayweather to come out and KO McGregor in about two seconds. That would make me laugh my ass off.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 7:11 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 7:11 PM on August 26, 2017
Mod note: Guys, don't drag politics into entirely unrelated threads, no matter how funny the joke seems or how apropos the comparison. We're really trying to keep it corralled.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 7:27 PM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 7:27 PM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
The one thing I don't understand is why Mayweather agreed to 8oz gloves. That doesn't fit any of the theories I have about him or about the fight tonight.
posted by clawsoon at 7:45 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by clawsoon at 7:45 PM on August 26, 2017
It's probably because he thought a lot MMA fans would say "ok if it's 8oz gloves that's a big help to Conor so now I'll order the font after all" like a lot of my co workers did
posted by Hiding From Goro at 7:53 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Hiding From Goro at 7:53 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Fight not font (phone posting)
posted by Hiding From Goro at 7:54 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Hiding From Goro at 7:54 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Fight not font (phone posting)
Oh, thank god. For a second there, I was worried that I was going to spend the next six months looking at posters and magazine ads that all look like Tapout shirts.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:01 PM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
Oh, thank god. For a second there, I was worried that I was going to spend the next six months looking at posters and magazine ads that all look like Tapout shirts.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:01 PM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
If you're trying to find a place to watch this, most Irish bars seem to be streaming it. That's where we are watching from. Though I watched Pacquiao and I don't know why I think this is going to be different.
posted by corb at 8:36 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:36 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
It's free on Channel 23 in Phuket.
posted by emf at 8:39 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by emf at 8:39 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Conor Sans
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:40 PM on August 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:40 PM on August 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
I've never watched boxing before. There are two models that keep moving so that they're always in the camera frame, smiling. They remind me of the twins from the Shining. Is this a normal boxing thing? Woman-as-advertisement? It's upsetting on like 5 levels.
posted by dis_integration at 8:43 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by dis_integration at 8:43 PM on August 26, 2017
It's ridiculous isn't it? I'm hoping McGregor wears his MMA shorts for some equal opportunities objectification.
posted by roolya_boolya at 8:51 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roolya_boolya at 8:51 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Looks like the legit streaming was knocked out before the fight even started.
posted by Literaryhero at 8:55 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Literaryhero at 8:55 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
My outside hunch is that they have a side-bet, that if McGregor wins he takes some kind of reins, and Mayweather has a substantial take in his future purses. I don't see Mayweather taking a dive, though.
posted by lkc at 8:55 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by lkc at 8:55 PM on August 26, 2017
Imelda! GET HYPE!
posted by roolya_boolya at 9:01 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by roolya_boolya at 9:01 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
The women are called "ring girls" or "ring card girls". They'll be back every round.
A whole discussion could be had about them. It would be a complicated one, similar to the discussion about cheerleaders. To see how complicated it can get: In women's MMA, the "ring girls" are often paid more than the fighters themselves. (That obviously won't be the case in this fight.) Bring everything you know about sexism, capitalism, objectification and free choice to the discussion, because they're all there.
posted by clawsoon at 9:06 PM on August 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
A whole discussion could be had about them. It would be a complicated one, similar to the discussion about cheerleaders. To see how complicated it can get: In women's MMA, the "ring girls" are often paid more than the fighters themselves. (That obviously won't be the case in this fight.) Bring everything you know about sexism, capitalism, objectification and free choice to the discussion, because they're all there.
posted by clawsoon at 9:06 PM on August 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
Okay, why is Mayweather wearing a ski mask?
posted by corb at 9:07 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 9:07 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think he has been inspired by the rubber bandits.
posted by roolya_boolya at 9:09 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by roolya_boolya at 9:09 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
It looks to me like Mayweather is saving a lot for later rounds. He's all defense right now.
posted by egregious theorem at 9:23 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by egregious theorem at 9:23 PM on August 26, 2017
I think MacGregor won the 1st.
I changed my mind, Mayweather losing by decision would actually be the most hilarious outcome.
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:24 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
I changed my mind, Mayweather losing by decision would actually be the most hilarious outcome.
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:24 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
It looks to me like Mayweather is saving a lot for later rounds.
Or drawing a DQ before the 4th.
posted by lkc at 9:24 PM on August 26, 2017
Or drawing a DQ before the 4th.
posted by lkc at 9:24 PM on August 26, 2017
He's trying to headbutt a cut on MacGregor, so we'll see how far this goes.
The back of the head stuff is dumb. WTF, that's not (good) training.
posted by rhizome at 9:26 PM on August 26, 2017
The back of the head stuff is dumb. WTF, that's not (good) training.
posted by rhizome at 9:26 PM on August 26, 2017
Hoping for a DQ is possible but the good old "get him tired & frustrated, then coast to an easy decision" strategy that Mayweather uses has always worked in the past so it could be that too.
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:28 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:28 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
He's still doing these back of the head punches. What the hell.
posted by meta87 at 9:29 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by meta87 at 9:29 PM on August 26, 2017
It's like he replaced his ability to go underneath with hammer hits.
posted by rhizome at 9:30 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 9:30 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
The woman who lives across the street from me is out of town while her meth addict son has been partying all day with his tweaked buddies and now they're screaming at the TV "kick his ass!" I can see their kids in the upstairs bedroom jumping on the bed.
Aaand that's all I need to know about this fight.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:33 PM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
Aaand that's all I need to know about this fight.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:33 PM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
McGregor looks tired.
posted by roolya_boolya at 9:33 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by roolya_boolya at 9:33 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'd also like to add that I'm super not into the ref having bits, catchphrases, or a personality at all.
posted by rhizome at 9:34 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 9:34 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah. I mean, the WWE element is part of this, too. I think after Pacquiao match they've had a lot of marketers trying to make sure the next hyped match is more exciting.
posted by lkc at 9:35 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by lkc at 9:35 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Mayweather starting to determine the positioning.
posted by egregious theorem at 9:36 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by egregious theorem at 9:36 PM on August 26, 2017
Yeah McGregor is out of gas. Mayweather seems to be turning it on too.
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:36 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:36 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
What woo science is behind the two-handed icebag massage? It makes me laugh every time.
posted by dis_integration at 9:36 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dis_integration at 9:36 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
3-3 after the 6th seems right.
Did they really have to make the trunk colors black & white?
posted by rhizome at 9:41 PM on August 26, 2017
Did they really have to make the trunk colors black & white?
posted by rhizome at 9:41 PM on August 26, 2017
MacGregor's dropping his hands. He leads with his chin, too, which is a bad combination.
posted by rhizome at 9:41 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 9:41 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think the back of the head punches are just reflex honestly.
posted by corb at 9:42 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by corb at 9:42 PM on August 26, 2017
Update from 38th street, Seattle: meth bros apparently are choosing patriotism over racism and are rooting Mayweather. Hippie neighbor went to complain about the noise and one of the kids came to the door to explain that the fight would be over soon.
I'm giving 2:1 odds on the cops turning up by the end of the night.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:42 PM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm giving 2:1 odds on the cops turning up by the end of the night.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:42 PM on August 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
I heard a lot more boos for Mayweather's last cheap shot than MacGregor's many back of the head shots. Is this just my stream or is the crowd that unbalanced?
posted by egregious theorem at 9:43 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by egregious theorem at 9:43 PM on August 26, 2017
What woo science is behind the two-handed icebag massage? It makes me laugh every time.
Corner man helping the fighter feel cooled down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfgQMSUIr-Q
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:43 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Corner man helping the fighter feel cooled down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfgQMSUIr-Q
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:43 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
McGregor's arms are tired. He's bad enough at keeping his hands up as it is and now he's taking a lot of hits for it. Otoh, those MMA guys are tough. Tougher than boxers might be used to and Mayweather is starting to take some bigger chances.
posted by fshgrl at 9:44 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by fshgrl at 9:44 PM on August 26, 2017
I think the back of the head punches are just reflex honestly.
Yeah, he's still got a lot of MMA instinct baked in, clearly.
posted by egregious theorem at 9:44 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeah, he's still got a lot of MMA instinct baked in, clearly.
posted by egregious theorem at 9:44 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Empty beer cans thrown into hippie neighbor yard. I just texted out of town neighbor lady.
This fight is more entertaining than I expected!
*pours another whiskey*
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:45 PM on August 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
This fight is more entertaining than I expected!
*pours another whiskey*
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:45 PM on August 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
Is this just my stream or is the crowd that unbalanced?
An ESPN stream earlier said over 90% of tickets were McGregor fans.
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:45 PM on August 26, 2017
An ESPN stream earlier said over 90% of tickets were McGregor fans.
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:45 PM on August 26, 2017
McGregor is very popular MMA fighter. Mayweather isn't that popular of a boxer, especially at this point, so no surprise there.
posted by fshgrl at 9:46 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by fshgrl at 9:46 PM on August 26, 2017
Well, also: Mayweather knows better. It's his sport. McGregor isn't trying to cheat, he's just having a hard time.
posted by corb at 9:46 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by corb at 9:46 PM on August 26, 2017
Some crowd song broke out partway through that round (8)
posted by rhizome at 9:47 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by rhizome at 9:47 PM on August 26, 2017
Back of the head is not allowed in MMA unified rules, either.
posted by LarsC at 9:47 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by LarsC at 9:47 PM on August 26, 2017
Edit:
Conor: 92% of tickets, 31% of $'s bet
Floyd: 8% tickets / 69% $
According to "largest book in NV" from ESPN live stream
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:48 PM on August 26, 2017
Conor: 92% of tickets, 31% of $'s bet
Floyd: 8% tickets / 69% $
According to "largest book in NV" from ESPN live stream
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:48 PM on August 26, 2017
Mayweather wants to land that uppercut so bad.
posted by rhizome at 9:48 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 9:48 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
McGregor is done for and I know nothing about boxing.
posted by dis_integration at 9:50 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 9:50 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh then I have no idea. I think McGregor is done though after that last round.
posted by corb at 9:50 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by corb at 9:50 PM on August 26, 2017
Yeah it's over
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:52 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:52 PM on August 26, 2017
Slarty Bartfast, please update us. I can't find a pay per view option for your neighbors.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:52 PM on August 26, 2017 [29 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:52 PM on August 26, 2017 [29 favorites]
President Mayweather 2032
posted by rhizome at 9:53 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 9:53 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
When did TKOs become a thing? I seem to remember watching boxing when I was a kid, they would have kept going.
posted by corb at 9:54 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by corb at 9:54 PM on August 26, 2017
Well that was exactly the predicted anticlimax.
posted by dis_integration at 9:55 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 9:55 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
All boxing/MMA/wrestling/pinochle/etc forums for the next 18 months: "well TECHNICALLY he didn't even get knocked down and furthermore,"
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:55 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:55 PM on August 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
I thought it was an entertaining fight.
posted by meta87 at 9:56 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by meta87 at 9:56 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
When did TKOs become a thing? I seem to remember watching boxing when I was a kid, they would have kept going
110% sure the contract stipulated a stoppage before anyone got seriously hurt
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:57 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
110% sure the contract stipulated a stoppage before anyone got seriously hurt
posted by Hiding From Goro at 9:57 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Well that was exactly the predicted anticlimax.
Really? I don't even like boxing that much and still thought that was pretty entertaining for a boxing match.
posted by skewed at 9:57 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Really? I don't even like boxing that much and still thought that was pretty entertaining for a boxing match.
posted by skewed at 9:57 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Unattended BBQ across the street just set neighbor lady's tree on fire. Fortunately garden hose was dispatched quickly by drunk guy smoking outside. Tattooed bros inside unaware.
Lots of high fives and yelling, guessing Conor just got knocked down (out?).
I may need to take this to Facebook Live.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:57 PM on August 26, 2017 [30 favorites]
Lots of high fives and yelling, guessing Conor just got knocked down (out?).
I may need to take this to Facebook Live.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:57 PM on August 26, 2017 [30 favorites]
All boxing/MMA/wrestling/pinochle/etc forums for the next 18 months: "well TECHNICALLY he didn't even get knocked down and furthermore,"
I'm neither a boxing fan nor an MMA fan, and I also didn't get the PPV (I read along here and other online auto-updates), but I don't really think that a 10th round TKO is that bad of an outcome for McGregor.
posted by Literaryhero at 9:58 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm neither a boxing fan nor an MMA fan, and I also didn't get the PPV (I read along here and other online auto-updates), but I don't really think that a 10th round TKO is that bad of an outcome for McGregor.
posted by Literaryhero at 9:58 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
110% sure the contract stipulated a stoppage before anyone got seriously hurt
This is completely normal for a boxing match, when one guy stops being able to defend himself and is just a punching bag, the ref always stops the fight.
posted by skewed at 9:58 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is completely normal for a boxing match, when one guy stops being able to defend himself and is just a punching bag, the ref always stops the fight.
posted by skewed at 9:58 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Holy shit fireworks!
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:58 PM on August 26, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:58 PM on August 26, 2017 [15 favorites]
Well, that was about what I expected. Maybe a couple rounds longer than it could have been. McGregor could have got lucky once or twice but he didn't. Pretty good fight though, if he actually trained as a boxer for a few years he'd have a chance. And stopped dropping his fucking hands. Jesus.
Now for the MMA rematch campaign!
posted by fshgrl at 9:58 PM on August 26, 2017
Now for the MMA rematch campaign!
posted by fshgrl at 9:58 PM on August 26, 2017
Well, Mayweather is saying that that was the game plan... string him along to tire him out.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 10:00 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by TWinbrook8 at 10:00 PM on August 26, 2017
For most of round 8 I was at the fridge eating peaches. I'm glad I started to pay attention again in round 9 and 10. Good match. My peaches were also really good.
posted by Fizz at 10:02 PM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 10:02 PM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
Well, Mayweather is saying that that was the game plan... string him along to tire him out.
That's always his game plan, in fairness. And McGregor's game plan is to taunt his opponent into making a mistake then hit them with a left.
posted by fshgrl at 10:03 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
That's always his game plan, in fairness. And McGregor's game plan is to taunt his opponent into making a mistake then hit them with a left.
posted by fshgrl at 10:03 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
corb: When did TKOs become a thing? I seem to remember watching boxing when I was a kid, they would have kept going.
I was listening to a radio documentary a couple of weeks ago about the first black boxing champion in England. It was around the time that Admiral Nelson was sailing to meet Napoleon's fleet. His fights got a lot more press coverage than Nelson did. At that time, fights could go on for dozens or hundreds of rounds, up until one fighter could no longer get up.
By the early 1900s, championship fights were limited to 45 rounds or so.
By mid-century, they were down to 15 rounds.
Now it's 12 rounds.
And in the past few years, if a the referee believes that a boxer can't defend themselves effectively, they will end the fight.
In each generation, we get a little bit more concerned for boxers' health and safety. Foreman vs. Frazier is not something you're likely to see again.
posted by clawsoon at 10:03 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
I was listening to a radio documentary a couple of weeks ago about the first black boxing champion in England. It was around the time that Admiral Nelson was sailing to meet Napoleon's fleet. His fights got a lot more press coverage than Nelson did. At that time, fights could go on for dozens or hundreds of rounds, up until one fighter could no longer get up.
By the early 1900s, championship fights were limited to 45 rounds or so.
By mid-century, they were down to 15 rounds.
Now it's 12 rounds.
And in the past few years, if a the referee believes that a boxer can't defend themselves effectively, they will end the fight.
In each generation, we get a little bit more concerned for boxers' health and safety. Foreman vs. Frazier is not something you're likely to see again.
posted by clawsoon at 10:03 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
My peaches were also really good.
so sweet
and so cold
posted by paper chromatographologist at 10:03 PM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
so sweet
and so cold
posted by paper chromatographologist at 10:03 PM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
This McGregor interview is BALLER. "let me waddle back to me corner and compose meself...give the man a chance to put me down.."
posted by corb at 10:04 PM on August 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by corb at 10:04 PM on August 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Not sure it would have been good to keep it going Conor.
posted by meta87 at 10:04 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by meta87 at 10:04 PM on August 26, 2017
Oh snap- Floyd did what Conor is famous for. He hinted at how it would happen and then followed through. Towards the end of an interview he said "If you knock him out early, [the fans] are upset. If you go the distance, they're upset. Under 4 rounds they say it's too short, 12 rounds they say it's too long. It's a catch 22"
posted by Hiding From Goro at 10:05 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Hiding From Goro at 10:05 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
When did TKOs become a thing? I seem to remember watching boxing when I was a kid, they would have kept going.
See also Mancini vs. Kim.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:05 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
See also Mancini vs. Kim.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:05 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
McGregor now complaining about the fight being stopped early... not mentioning that he failed to throw a punch for about the last minute of the fight and Mayweather was just punching him at will. By the way, wtf does "I made you fight like a Mexican" mean?
posted by skewed at 10:06 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by skewed at 10:06 PM on August 26, 2017
I don't even like boxing that much and still thought that was pretty entertaining for a boxing match.
I lose my bet. Please collect your winnings.
posted by clawsoon at 10:06 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
I lose my bet. Please collect your winnings.
posted by clawsoon at 10:06 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
This McGregor interview is BALLER. "let me waddle back to me corner and compose meself...give the man a chance to put me down.."
But what does "I turned him into a Mexican." mean?
posted by Literaryhero at 10:07 PM on August 26, 2017
But what does "I turned him into a Mexican." mean?
posted by Literaryhero at 10:07 PM on August 26, 2017
"Rednecks across America are throwing their cans of Guinness at their screens!"
Gotta love Seattle, where even the tweaker bros look down on racists.
I'm done now. No cops here, just drunks putting their kids in cars and driving off.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 10:08 PM on August 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
Gotta love Seattle, where even the tweaker bros look down on racists.
I'm done now. No cops here, just drunks putting their kids in cars and driving off.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 10:08 PM on August 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
But what does "I turned him into a Mexican." mean?
I'm gonna go with, "something racist and insulting," because McGregor.
Man, I was hoping that Mayweather would absolutely destroy McGregor into a pulp, for being such a racist piece of shit. Then I was hoping that a meteor would hit the ring and take Mayweather out for being an abusive piece of shit.
posted by TwoStride at 10:09 PM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm gonna go with, "something racist and insulting," because McGregor.
Man, I was hoping that Mayweather would absolutely destroy McGregor into a pulp, for being such a racist piece of shit. Then I was hoping that a meteor would hit the ring and take Mayweather out for being an abusive piece of shit.
posted by TwoStride at 10:09 PM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
Yes, I know I fucked up the second part of the Floyd quote
posted by Hiding From Goro at 10:10 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by Hiding From Goro at 10:10 PM on August 26, 2017
It was pleasing to watch McGregor lose. Too bad Mayweather couldn't lose too. They're both jerks.
Also, my peaches were really good.
posted by Fizz at 10:13 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, my peaches were really good.
posted by Fizz at 10:13 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
skewed: By the way, wtf does "I made you fight like a Mexican" mean?
Mexican boxers have a (mostly deserved) reputation for a boxing style which involves throwing and taking lots of punches, fighting on the inside. It's a brutal, exhausting way to fight, but it can be exciting to watch. Julio Cesar Chavez Sr. is the exemplar and a national hero.
Mayweather is known for careful, defensive fighting from the outside. McGregor is saying that he dictated the style of the fight, forcing Mayweather to give up his usual slip-and-counter style and get into more dangerous inside fighting.
posted by clawsoon at 10:15 PM on August 26, 2017 [35 favorites]
Mexican boxers have a (mostly deserved) reputation for a boxing style which involves throwing and taking lots of punches, fighting on the inside. It's a brutal, exhausting way to fight, but it can be exciting to watch. Julio Cesar Chavez Sr. is the exemplar and a national hero.
Mayweather is known for careful, defensive fighting from the outside. McGregor is saying that he dictated the style of the fight, forcing Mayweather to give up his usual slip-and-counter style and get into more dangerous inside fighting.
posted by clawsoon at 10:15 PM on August 26, 2017 [35 favorites]
Did your peaches come from a can? Were they put there by a man?
posted by TwoStride at 10:15 PM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by TwoStride at 10:15 PM on August 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
Thanks, clawsoon, that's context that I needed.
posted by Literaryhero at 10:20 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Literaryhero at 10:20 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Other classic exemplars of Mexican boxing: Erik Morales and Marco Antonio Barrera (highlights).
posted by clawsoon at 10:22 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 10:22 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
Raise a glass for the sweet science.
posted by vrakatar at 10:24 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 10:24 PM on August 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Boxers <140lbs have a much easier time learning to take punches than deliver knockout blows, there's usually not enough mass behind punches at that level. Lighter weight matches almost always go the distance. Lots of action! Not much consequence. For me, welterweight is where it starts getting interesting.
posted by rhizome at 10:32 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 10:32 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
And thank god he did, because Mayweather-Pacquiao was the most boring fight of my life and I am so glad this was not the same.
posted by corb at 10:33 PM on August 26, 2017
posted by corb at 10:33 PM on August 26, 2017
Pablo Maurer @MLSist
I think McGregor's biggest problem tonight was that these three artisanal bartenders kept offering him craft cocktails.
posted by rhizome at 10:37 PM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
I think McGregor's biggest problem tonight was that these three artisanal bartenders kept offering him craft cocktails.
posted by rhizome at 10:37 PM on August 26, 2017 [10 favorites]
Semi-relevant: When Floyd Mayweather called into a radio show to argue with R.A. the Rugged Man about boxing.
posted by lkc at 10:39 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by lkc at 10:39 PM on August 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
The last fighter who forced Mayweather to fight on the inside - and who also, probably not coincidentally, hit Mayweather a bunch of times on the back of the head when Mayweather tried to clinch - was Maidana, in their first fight. He was also the last fighter that Mayweather only got a majority decision against. I wouldn't be surprised if McGregor's camp consciously modeled their approach after Maidana and Castillo, the two fighters who gave Mayweather the most trouble: Sustained pressure fighting on the inside, get a little dirty.
The problem for McGregor was that he couldn't sustain the sustained pressure. Maidana threw 858 punches against Mayweather. How many did McGregor throw tonight?
posted by clawsoon at 10:47 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
The problem for McGregor was that he couldn't sustain the sustained pressure. Maidana threw 858 punches against Mayweather. How many did McGregor throw tonight?
posted by clawsoon at 10:47 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
boxing is the most exhausting and difficult sport there is, in my opinion. there is no better test of fitness- physical and mental. that was a pretty entertaining fight between a master and an aggressive newcomer. i am going to believe, absent evidence to the contrary, that all the weird racist and other disturbing shit in the leadup to this was just marketing nonsense and that the fighters' embrace at the end was legit. if so, good fight, and payday well deserved.
posted by wibari at 11:09 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by wibari at 11:09 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
How many did McGregor throw tonight?
The scorecard says 87-83, 89-82, 89-81, but is the Maidana count for "thrown but not-necessarily-landed?"
posted by rhizome at 11:11 PM on August 26, 2017
The scorecard says 87-83, 89-82, 89-81, but is the Maidana count for "thrown but not-necessarily-landed?"
posted by rhizome at 11:11 PM on August 26, 2017
The scorecard is based on a 10-points-per-round system; it doesn't reflect the number of punches landed. Scores are typical 10 points for the winner of a round and 9 points for the loser. If a fighter is knocked down or disciplined by the referee for something like a low blow, they lose an additional point, typically resulting in a 10-8 or 9-9 round.
So 87-83 means that the judge thinks Mayweather won 7 rounds and McGregor won 3.
It's the Compubox numbers I'm interested in. In Mayweather vs. Maidana I, Maidana threw 858 and landed 221. It was a low percentage landed, but the pressure was relentless.
It's interesting that Mayweather went with a high guard for so much of the fight instead of his signature shoulder roll. Was that just to throw McGregor off, or have I missed a stylistic change in Mayweather's last few fights?
posted by clawsoon at 11:21 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
So 87-83 means that the judge thinks Mayweather won 7 rounds and McGregor won 3.
It's the Compubox numbers I'm interested in. In Mayweather vs. Maidana I, Maidana threw 858 and landed 221. It was a low percentage landed, but the pressure was relentless.
It's interesting that Mayweather went with a high guard for so much of the fight instead of his signature shoulder roll. Was that just to throw McGregor off, or have I missed a stylistic change in Mayweather's last few fights?
posted by clawsoon at 11:21 PM on August 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
Maybe he was trying to show McGregor how it's done.... It might be that he knows McGregor has that long reach too. Watching him fight a boxer, vs an MMA guy, it was really obvious how freakishly long armed he is. I read that he had like 4" or more reach on Mayweather.
posted by fshgrl at 11:53 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by fshgrl at 11:53 PM on August 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
And that is how a master technician works.
McGregor's style reminded me of Naseem Hamed. He would utilize a measuring hand and then come in at odd angles.
posted by P.o.B. at 12:01 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
McGregor's style reminded me of Naseem Hamed. He would utilize a measuring hand and then come in at odd angles.
posted by P.o.B. at 12:01 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
And in the past few years, if a the referee believes that a boxer can't defend themselves effectively, they will end the fight.
And my inner Irish mammy says thanks be to god.
posted by roolya_boolya at 12:02 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
And my inner Irish mammy says thanks be to god.
posted by roolya_boolya at 12:02 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Irish Media Reaction
For those who need it.
posted by roolya_boolya at 12:04 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
For those who need it.
posted by roolya_boolya at 12:04 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
P.o.B.: McGregor's style reminded me of Naseem Hamed. He would utilize a measuring hand and then come in at odd angles.
Good call. Same pawing, measuring, setting up the big left hand. But in comparison to Prince Naseem in his most famous loss, McGregor seemed... weak? Slow? Just no snap on McGregor's punches, which surprised me. Wasn't power supposed to be his big advantage?
With all the turnarounds, I'm also surprised there was no dry humping.
fshgirl: Maybe he was trying to show McGregor how it's done.... It might be that he knows McGregor has that long reach too.
Aye, and I guess protecting against McGregor's left hook, which I think (?) is the only way he has scored knockouts. It was definitely a new style for Mayweather all around. Plodding stalking by Mayweather? That's the last thing I expected.
posted by clawsoon at 12:19 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Good call. Same pawing, measuring, setting up the big left hand. But in comparison to Prince Naseem in his most famous loss, McGregor seemed... weak? Slow? Just no snap on McGregor's punches, which surprised me. Wasn't power supposed to be his big advantage?
With all the turnarounds, I'm also surprised there was no dry humping.
fshgirl: Maybe he was trying to show McGregor how it's done.... It might be that he knows McGregor has that long reach too.
Aye, and I guess protecting against McGregor's left hook, which I think (?) is the only way he has scored knockouts. It was definitely a new style for Mayweather all around. Plodding stalking by Mayweather? That's the last thing I expected.
posted by clawsoon at 12:19 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yep, if you watch his MMA bouts you'll see him literally reach out and tippy tap his opponent, provoking them to come at him, then he drops them with his left. McGregor has monkey arms and he knows it. But he is shit at guarding his face, it was obvious in all the sparring footage. So it made sense for Mayweather to chip away at him once he learned his "weird angles" which only took him a round or two. Enough shots to the face and anyone will run out of gas and Mayweather could afford to chase him since his defensive moves are all illegal . They're both freakishly fast and McGregor has that long reach but the rules in this bout were not on his side
If people enjoyed this watch Woodley- Thompson 1 and 2. Real interesting bouts with two guys with totally different styles, which is kind of the point of MMA. Woodley is the shit, basically, and I expected him to win easily since wrestlers almost always do, but Thompson turned out to be much tougher than anyone gave him credit for at our house and they are great fights without being slug fests.
posted by fshgrl at 12:44 AM on August 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
If people enjoyed this watch Woodley- Thompson 1 and 2. Real interesting bouts with two guys with totally different styles, which is kind of the point of MMA. Woodley is the shit, basically, and I expected him to win easily since wrestlers almost always do, but Thompson turned out to be much tougher than anyone gave him credit for at our house and they are great fights without being slug fests.
posted by fshgrl at 12:44 AM on August 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think he has been inspired by the rubber bandits.
Context
posted by roolya_boolya at 12:47 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Context
posted by roolya_boolya at 12:47 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ah, I doofed on reading the scorecard. The Mirror says MacGregor landed 111 of 430 (26%).
posted by rhizome at 12:53 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 12:53 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Compubox numbers:
FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR.
Jabs landed: 18 of 59 (31%)
Power punches landed: 152 of 261 (58%)
Total punches landed: 170 of 320 (53%)
CONOR MCGREGOR
Jabs landed: 27 of 98 (28%)
Power punches landed: 84 of 332 (25%)
Total punches landed: 111 of 430 (26%)
That's more punches thrown by McGregor than I thought, and many fewer jabs from Mayweather than he usually throws. The connect percentages, though, are same as always.
Is it just me, or did Mayweather look lazy in this fight compared to his usual intensity and precision and movement? It's like he didn't care whether he got hit or not. Just not crisp, not his usual cat-like explosiveness. I think I like Mayweather vs. Pacquiao better than this fight, just because both fighters in that one brought their best. This fight, not so much - or that's how it looked to me, anyway.
posted by clawsoon at 12:57 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
FLOYD MAYWEATHER JR.
Jabs landed: 18 of 59 (31%)
Power punches landed: 152 of 261 (58%)
Total punches landed: 170 of 320 (53%)
CONOR MCGREGOR
Jabs landed: 27 of 98 (28%)
Power punches landed: 84 of 332 (25%)
Total punches landed: 111 of 430 (26%)
That's more punches thrown by McGregor than I thought, and many fewer jabs from Mayweather than he usually throws. The connect percentages, though, are same as always.
Is it just me, or did Mayweather look lazy in this fight compared to his usual intensity and precision and movement? It's like he didn't care whether he got hit or not. Just not crisp, not his usual cat-like explosiveness. I think I like Mayweather vs. Pacquiao better than this fight, just because both fighters in that one brought their best. This fight, not so much - or that's how it looked to me, anyway.
posted by clawsoon at 12:57 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm putting pretty long odds on myself somehow watching the fight tomorrow without seeing the result first
It was a miracle!
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:59 AM on August 27, 2017
It was a miracle!
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:59 AM on August 27, 2017
(Also only 2 rounds out on my prediction... so using McGregor scoring I'm going to wobble back to my corner and declare that a victory)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:59 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:59 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
many of McGregor's accomplishments in MMA are undeniable, but one can argue that the opportunities he received to rise to the top of the UFC featherweight and lightweight divisions are, in part, due to the color of his skin. Other UFC fighters with better records, more legitimate title claims, and darker skin were not afforded the same opportunities.Please make the argument explicitly, because I can't imagine who in the featherweight or lightweight divisions you could be referring to. Khabib Nurmagamedov, the literal Caucasian, has a better record but has scheduling/weight-cutting issues and is not nearly as exciting for casual fans. There is of course a tremendously good argument to be made for McGregor's relative linguistic privilege versus the Dagestani wrestler, but that's quite a different argument than you make. Being a native English speaker fuels McGregor's ability to sell PPVs at a level matched only by the UFC's mega-stars like Rousey, Lesar, and GSP, and explains much better the opportunities McGregor's been given: he's a tremendously exciting fighter—akin to Jon Jones, early Rousey, or prime Anderson Silva—who can talk like none of them ever could, with mic skills rivaling Muhammad Ali's.
posted by daveliepmann at 3:35 AM on August 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
McGregor's left hook, which I think (?) is the only way he has scored knockouts.Left straight, really. He also scores KOs with his uppercut, for instance against Marcus Brimage.
It was definitely a new style for Mayweather all around. Plodding stalking by Mayweather? That's the last thing I expected.Mayweather's post-fight speech outlining his strategy explained this really well: let McGregor punch himself out in the early rounds, weather the storm, and turn on the pressure and aggression mid-fight. This is exactly what he did. Notice how distinctly more powerful his shots from the 7th onward were, compared to McGregor's best shots. Notice how Mayweather literally barely broke a sweat, whereas McGregor was panting by the fourth.
I found the fight to be quite the display of boxing strategy, despite it being the opposite of Mayweather's normal boxing method. One hypothesis is that he played more aggressively against McGregor than against, say, a truly dangerous southpaw boxer in Pacquiao.
posted by daveliepmann at 3:42 AM on August 27, 2017 [7 favorites]
The view from the lock in: "I didn't really expect him to win but Conor has done a lot for Ireland"
and
Despite defeat in the ring McGregor has still won.
posted by roolya_boolya at 3:49 AM on August 27, 2017
and
Despite defeat in the ring McGregor has still won.
posted by roolya_boolya at 3:49 AM on August 27, 2017
amazing year long duel going on between Woodley and Wonderboy for the welterweight titleI hate to break it to ya but Woodley's last three fights compete for the most boring title fights of all time. Granted, Woodley has been cursed by style match-ups in Thompson and Maia that force him to fight ultra-conservatively. I get it, and I can appreciate lower-volume technical contests, but his title reign has been 90% two fighters staring at each other and not throwing. This is not conducive to big PPV sales and therefore preferential treatment unless your first name ends with a silent "s" and half a million French-Canadians pony up for every fight card you're on.
posted by daveliepmann at 3:51 AM on August 27, 2017
Boxing, like any other sport, is an industry. As long as money comes in, I see no problem with having matches like this one. It seems that winnings are for both sides. It's the end of an era, a cycle, and there's one question left, though: who's gonna play the next "big match"?
posted by pseudonymus at 4:36 AM on August 27, 2017
posted by pseudonymus at 4:36 AM on August 27, 2017
daveliepmann: One hypothesis is that he played more aggressively against McGregor than against, say, a truly dangerous southpaw boxer in Pacquiao.
That (and everything else you said) makes sense. Given what we know Mayweather can do defensively, it seemed almost... disrespectful? Like McGregor wasn't dangerous enough to for Mayweather to have to bring all his defensive brilliance into the ring?
Mayweather did also say that he plodded forward and fought a less defensive fight on purpose in order to please the fans. I guess all the criticism finally got to him, and in the end he wanted to be liked, to shed the heel schtick? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed like he was close to tears when he was thanking the fans at the end.
posted by clawsoon at 6:54 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
That (and everything else you said) makes sense. Given what we know Mayweather can do defensively, it seemed almost... disrespectful? Like McGregor wasn't dangerous enough to for Mayweather to have to bring all his defensive brilliance into the ring?
Mayweather did also say that he plodded forward and fought a less defensive fight on purpose in order to please the fans. I guess all the criticism finally got to him, and in the end he wanted to be liked, to shed the heel schtick? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed like he was close to tears when he was thanking the fans at the end.
posted by clawsoon at 6:54 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
pseudonymus: It's the end of an era, a cycle, and there's one question left, though: who's gonna play the next "big match"?
Saul "Canelo" Alvarez seems like the obvious heir. He has already cracked 1 million PPV buys and he may do it twice this year, he's young, he's good-looking, he exudes confidence, he has crowd-pleasing power and commentator-pleasing skill, and he's solidifying his position as the next great Mexican champion. Oscar de la Hoya has picked him to be the next Oscar de la Hoya. (Just like Oscar de la Hoya picked Floyd Mayweather to be the next Oscar de la Hoya, until that relationship broke down in mutual acrimony.)
But who knows? His limited English may limit Alvarez's appeal to the casual American boxing fans whose interest and buying power seems to be used as the definitive measure of who's a "big thing".
posted by clawsoon at 7:17 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Saul "Canelo" Alvarez seems like the obvious heir. He has already cracked 1 million PPV buys and he may do it twice this year, he's young, he's good-looking, he exudes confidence, he has crowd-pleasing power and commentator-pleasing skill, and he's solidifying his position as the next great Mexican champion. Oscar de la Hoya has picked him to be the next Oscar de la Hoya. (Just like Oscar de la Hoya picked Floyd Mayweather to be the next Oscar de la Hoya, until that relationship broke down in mutual acrimony.)
But who knows? His limited English may limit Alvarez's appeal to the casual American boxing fans whose interest and buying power seems to be used as the definitive measure of who's a "big thing".
posted by clawsoon at 7:17 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
As a side-show to the main circus, the timing of this fight added more bad blood to the long-standing conflicts between Mayweather and de la Hoya, and Mayweather and HBO. What happened to the Cotto-Kamegai PPV numbers last night, I wonder? (Do you know anybody who watched it? Or talked about it? Or even knew that it was happening?) And what will happen to the Alvarez-Golovkin PPV numbers on September 16th? Both fights are promoted by de la Hoya and on HBO, and I'm sure it pleased Mayweather at least a little bit to get under de la Hoya's skin yet again.
posted by clawsoon at 8:41 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 8:41 AM on August 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Hmm. A racist vs. a guy who hits women. Maybe I'll root for the ceiling falling in on them both.
My wife's comment was "Who to cheer for out of these two? You hope that Stone Cold Steve Austin drops out of the ceiling and kicks both their assess, that's what you want."
posted by joycehealy at 9:36 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
My wife's comment was "Who to cheer for out of these two? You hope that Stone Cold Steve Austin drops out of the ceiling and kicks both their assess, that's what you want."
posted by joycehealy at 9:36 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
My wife's comment was "Who to cheer for out of these two? You hope that Stone Cold Steve Austin drops out of the ceiling and kicks both their assess, that's what you want."
What you wanted was for The Rock to drop out of the ceiling, kick both of their asses and show America how presidential he can be.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:02 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
What you wanted was for The Rock to drop out of the ceiling, kick both of their asses and show America how presidential he can be.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:02 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
daveliepmann: Please make the argument explicitly, because I can't imagine who in the featherweight or lightweight divisions you could be referring to.
Featherweights: Cub Swanson and Max Holloway had better UFC runs before losing (Cub) or finally sniffing an interim belt (Max). McGregor had a terrific run but got his title shot after beating Dennis Siver, of all people.
Lightweights: After winning the featherweight belt, McGregor was immediately granted a lightweight title shot, something the UFC refused to give Jose Aldo, the previous, highly dominant featherweight champion who had fought to keep his place at the top of the division for years. In moving up to lightweight, McGregor leapfrogged an entire division, including contenders like Tony Ferguson, Khabib, Edson Barbosa, Eddie Alvarez, Nate Diaz and Michael Johnson. After Rafael Dos Anjos pulled out of the lightweight title fight with McGregor, McGregor lost to Nate Diaz, was granted a rematch with Diaz, won that, and then got another lightweight title shot.
Listen, McGregor is a phenomenal fighter. He may be the best featherweight and lightweight mixed martial artist in the world. But his rise to the top isn't fair. Giving out more opportunities to fighters based on popularity and PPV sales undermines the legitimacy of the sport (see: boxing).
Most of the fighters I've mentioned above are phenomenally exciting and marketable, yet McGregor is the one who gets the biggest marketing push. His trash talk is nowhere near that of Ali. He inexplicably called Dennis Siver a nazi, Diaz a cholo gangster, and promised Jose Aldo he would ride into a favela in Rio and kill anyone not fit to work . The most popular fighter in the UFC is white and says basic racist shit. I'm just connecting the dots.
posted by el gran combo at 11:13 AM on August 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
Featherweights: Cub Swanson and Max Holloway had better UFC runs before losing (Cub) or finally sniffing an interim belt (Max). McGregor had a terrific run but got his title shot after beating Dennis Siver, of all people.
Lightweights: After winning the featherweight belt, McGregor was immediately granted a lightweight title shot, something the UFC refused to give Jose Aldo, the previous, highly dominant featherweight champion who had fought to keep his place at the top of the division for years. In moving up to lightweight, McGregor leapfrogged an entire division, including contenders like Tony Ferguson, Khabib, Edson Barbosa, Eddie Alvarez, Nate Diaz and Michael Johnson. After Rafael Dos Anjos pulled out of the lightweight title fight with McGregor, McGregor lost to Nate Diaz, was granted a rematch with Diaz, won that, and then got another lightweight title shot.
Listen, McGregor is a phenomenal fighter. He may be the best featherweight and lightweight mixed martial artist in the world. But his rise to the top isn't fair. Giving out more opportunities to fighters based on popularity and PPV sales undermines the legitimacy of the sport (see: boxing).
Most of the fighters I've mentioned above are phenomenally exciting and marketable, yet McGregor is the one who gets the biggest marketing push. His trash talk is nowhere near that of Ali. He inexplicably called Dennis Siver a nazi, Diaz a cholo gangster, and promised Jose Aldo he would ride into a favela in Rio and kill anyone not fit to work . The most popular fighter in the UFC is white and says basic racist shit. I'm just connecting the dots.
posted by el gran combo at 11:13 AM on August 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
My wife's comment was "Who to cheer for out of these two? You hope that Stone Cold Steve Austin drops out of the ceiling and kicks both their assess, that's what you want."
Yeeeeah I like Austin but he doesn't have the cleanest record either tbh.
posted by infinitelives at 11:52 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yeeeeah I like Austin but he doesn't have the cleanest record either tbh.
posted by infinitelives at 11:52 AM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I hate to break it to ya but Woodley's last three fights compete for the most boring title fights of all time
See we really enjoyed those fights because of the style mismatch. It was fascinating to watch.
Most of the fighters I've mentioned above are phenomenally exciting and marketable, yet McGregor is the one who gets the biggest marketing push.
The Diaz brothers are fucking crazy, that's why they didn't had the money making career. It's because they do things like follow the other guy to the hospital after a bout and attack him. Well that and timing, MMA has grown a lot over the years. People love them but Nick is certifiable and Nate is only slightly less so.
posted by fshgrl at 3:43 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
See we really enjoyed those fights because of the style mismatch. It was fascinating to watch.
Most of the fighters I've mentioned above are phenomenally exciting and marketable, yet McGregor is the one who gets the biggest marketing push.
The Diaz brothers are fucking crazy, that's why they didn't had the money making career. It's because they do things like follow the other guy to the hospital after a bout and attack him. Well that and timing, MMA has grown a lot over the years. People love them but Nick is certifiable and Nate is only slightly less so.
posted by fshgrl at 3:43 PM on August 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
el gran combo, I think we're talking past each other despite agreement on broad underlying beliefs on this topic. The easy short way to say what I'm sure both of us believe is that race affects how popular athletes are viewed, and their popularity. I'm worried, however, that a less-nuanced discourse makes it harder for people to be convinced of how we're saying that if they haven't already come to that conclusion.
Saying "fighters with better records were not afforded the same opportunities because of the color of their skin" brings to mind a chortling UFC management villain derailing black and Hispanic fighters while carefully shepherding white fighters along to riches. Any learned fight fan looks at that misrepresentation of what you and I agree on, then looks at the roster of UFC champions and the fighters they see on UFC cards, and concludes you and I are insane to make such a ludicrous claim. I'd rather convince this hypothetical fight fan by not unintentionally conjuring in their mind an easily-dismissed cartoon racist.
I totally grant that McGregor got a title shot instead of Holloway. McGregor also beat Holloway, and at the time in question (summer 2015) both fighters had wins over solid guys (e.g. Poirier, Swanson, Miller...Holloway) but neither had a better claim on paper to a title shot. Check their records (one, two); they're pretty even. This is understandable: the top 5 is a murderer's row and nobody wants to derail a title run when Aldo needed fresh opponents. Given all that, are you really saying that the difference between Holloway and McGregor is skin color? Remember, McGregor's title run was a string of first-round TKOs! He looked like a pool shark calling impossible shots, making them, then stirring every crowd into a frenzy. Of course Irishness is an American fetish in a way that Hawaiianness isn't--it's clearly the more popular accent--but would casual viewers even register that Holloway is Hawaiian? Does that weigh more heavily than the widespread perception (based in truth) of Ireland as a home of incredible boxing talent? Holloway has even explicitly said that he eschews trash talk and money fights.
(By the way, in making a list of fighters who got screwed by McGregor in featherweight contention, I wouldn't leave out Edgar.)
One could list dos Anjos as a leapfrogged party, though he was coming off a loss. But again, the reason seems to clearly be that the UFC was looking at making tens of millions of dollars with an immediate lightweight title fight rather than a contender fight. The parallel to draw is Rousey's comeback fight against Nunes, the context of which clearly demonstrates that the UFC consistently chooses the biggest short-term outcome rather than what's best for a fighter's long-term development or a division's health. The UFC picks the big fights for fighters that are already popular, instead of building them up, without regard for which fighter is most deserving. They reward selling fights and showing up on fight night and it's hard to tell if they care about anything else. It's capitalist extraction of wealth at the cost of labor and blind to quality. I agree it sucks. But I find it a stretch to say it's Ferguson's race that makes him less compelling for a title shot (to the UFC) than their biggest active star.
posted by daveliepmann at 10:14 AM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
Saying "fighters with better records were not afforded the same opportunities because of the color of their skin" brings to mind a chortling UFC management villain derailing black and Hispanic fighters while carefully shepherding white fighters along to riches. Any learned fight fan looks at that misrepresentation of what you and I agree on, then looks at the roster of UFC champions and the fighters they see on UFC cards, and concludes you and I are insane to make such a ludicrous claim. I'd rather convince this hypothetical fight fan by not unintentionally conjuring in their mind an easily-dismissed cartoon racist.
The most popular fighter in the UFC is white and says basic racist shit. I'm just connecting the dots.I humbly point out that the crown of "most popular fighter in the UFC" has been held by a panoply of people of all backgrounds: Anderson Silva, Jones, St. Pierre, Lesnar, Rousey. Going back a bit, you have Ortiz, Lidell, Penn, Rampage Jackson, Wanderlei Silva, Couture, and Gracie. Notice the Brazilian (black and not), Hawaiian, French Canadian, and American (black, white, and Hispanic) fighters. Or, look at UFC champions. The current roster is whiter than ever in recent memory and it's still a quarter black before we start talking about Holloway, the Brazilians, national representation, or gay and out Nunes. Again, I agree that race has an effect on popularity, but that's because I already believed that and I can see that it's a complex second-order effect. Someone completely ignorant of American race relations would look at this sample and think you and I insane.
Featherweights: Cub Swanson and Max Holloway had better UFC runs before losing (Cub) or finally sniffing an interim belt (Max). McGregor had a terrific run but got his title shot after beating Dennis Siver, of all people.During the period in question, Swanson lost two in a row and then went on a measly 3-fight win streak--of decisions--of which the toughest match-up was keeping the gate against Choi. I'll grant that the Choi fight was a barnburner, but it's ridiculous to say McGregor cut ahead of Swanson because of...Swanson's So=Cal background?
I totally grant that McGregor got a title shot instead of Holloway. McGregor also beat Holloway, and at the time in question (summer 2015) both fighters had wins over solid guys (e.g. Poirier, Swanson, Miller...Holloway) but neither had a better claim on paper to a title shot. Check their records (one, two); they're pretty even. This is understandable: the top 5 is a murderer's row and nobody wants to derail a title run when Aldo needed fresh opponents. Given all that, are you really saying that the difference between Holloway and McGregor is skin color? Remember, McGregor's title run was a string of first-round TKOs! He looked like a pool shark calling impossible shots, making them, then stirring every crowd into a frenzy. Of course Irishness is an American fetish in a way that Hawaiianness isn't--it's clearly the more popular accent--but would casual viewers even register that Holloway is Hawaiian? Does that weigh more heavily than the widespread perception (based in truth) of Ireland as a home of incredible boxing talent? Holloway has even explicitly said that he eschews trash talk and money fights.
(By the way, in making a list of fighters who got screwed by McGregor in featherweight contention, I wouldn't leave out Edgar.)
Lightweights: After winning the featherweight belt, McGregor was immediately granted a lightweight title shot, something the UFC refused to give Jose AldoThere were extensive discussions about granting Aldo a shot, despite his relatively weak star power. As I recall, it got derailed with a weird string of injuries and re-schedulings, didn't it? And that ended with Aldo's teammate dos Anjos holding the lightbelt belt, which upsets any potential match-up for the crown. Putting the situation in context makes it a lot less clear than "Aldo, not white, not given double-champ shot; McGregor, white, got double-champ shot", which would make one question, for instance, the double-champ discussions that surrounded Silva, Jones, and--if we're counting Hawaiians as racially disadvantaged in this discussion--Penn. This leaves intact what I expect are our shared beliefs as to the roots of Aldo's unpopularity: he's not white, but furthermore he hasn't finished a fight in years, he's not American (and not a nationality that is well-known and has a specific identity and cachet to Americans), and he doesn't speak English. We could debate relative importance among those but I think we agree those are the most relevant factors to the (mostly) US-centric UFC.
In moving up to lightweight, McGregor leapfrogged an entire division, including contenders like Tony Ferguson, Khabib, Edson Barbosa, Eddie Alvarez, Nate Diaz and Michael Johnson.The unfairness of leapfrogging Alvarez is weakened by the fact that McGregor beat Alvarez to win the title, though I see your point. Johnson is much weirder to list here, considering at the time in question he was 1-2. I discussed Nurmagamedov in my above comment, though I'll note that listing Dagestanis as disadvantaged (which I agree they are in this context) lends credence to my point that we should be more discerning than tossing out comments like "it's because of skin color". Barboza was definitely not in title contention, as he was 2-2 in recent history, with losses to Ferguson and Johnson. Of course I'll grant that McGregor skipped ahead of Ferguson.
One could list dos Anjos as a leapfrogged party, though he was coming off a loss. But again, the reason seems to clearly be that the UFC was looking at making tens of millions of dollars with an immediate lightweight title fight rather than a contender fight. The parallel to draw is Rousey's comeback fight against Nunes, the context of which clearly demonstrates that the UFC consistently chooses the biggest short-term outcome rather than what's best for a fighter's long-term development or a division's health. The UFC picks the big fights for fighters that are already popular, instead of building them up, without regard for which fighter is most deserving. They reward selling fights and showing up on fight night and it's hard to tell if they care about anything else. It's capitalist extraction of wealth at the cost of labor and blind to quality. I agree it sucks. But I find it a stretch to say it's Ferguson's race that makes him less compelling for a title shot (to the UFC) than their biggest active star.
Listen, McGregor is a phenomenal fighter. He may be the best featherweight and lightweight mixed martial artist in the world. But his rise to the top isn't fair. Giving out more opportunities to fighters based on popularity and PPV sales undermines the legitimacy of the sport (see: boxing).We agree on all of that. All I'm saying is that to get the word out about racism in combat sports, we need to say things more like "McGregor gets preferential treatment because he's wildly popular, which is affected by race and national background in complex ways" rather than "McGregor gets preferential treatment based on skin color". We need to acknowledge the racial dynamics while also explaining phenomena which bolster your point about legitimacy, such as CM Punk or James Toney, or else we lose hearts and minds. Let's conserve our energy and credibility so we can condemn McGregor's shitty racist tropes.
posted by daveliepmann at 10:14 AM on August 28, 2017 [5 favorites]
I keep thinking about how weird Mayweather looked in this fight. Not his usual self at all. I've watched the fight a couple more times, and then watched some of his previous fights again, and I'm convinced that he purposely dumbed himself down for this fight.
This video first clued me in to how Mayweather's style works. It's worth a watch if you like in-depth analysis.
The most characteristic action in Mayweather's style is his lean back, way back, tempting the other fighter forward, then a lightning-fast straight right to his opponent's face, then instantly back. It's reminiscent of a cobra's strike. (If he had venomous fangs in his gloves, most of his opponents would be dead.)
He'll also lean way forward sometimes, face unprotected. Think McGregor's hands-behind-the-back taunt, but with his face sticking way out. This works for Mayweather for the same reason that the cobra-strike move works: He's able to accelerate his upper body forward and back with incredible quickness. Leaning forward to tempt a jab; back to avoid it; forward to land the straight right; back (or down) to avoid the second punch. Most boxers are simply too slow to pull that off.
He doesn't do any of these moves as a formula. He adjusts during the fight to his opponent's responses, finding ways to tempt them into committing to a punch that his quickness can counter.
If they get too close, he clinches. He does not fight on the inside.
He also spends most of his fights stepping slowly back and sideways, drawing the other fighter forward. He's dropping breadcrumbs to tempt them into his traps, then springing his traps with incredibly quickness.
His previous fight, against Berto, from 18 months ago, has plenty of examples of all of this.
This time, he plodded forward. He let a little of his usual brilliance out at the end, when he was delivering the final blows - almost as if he couldn't help himself - but for most of the fight he did none of it.
McGregor said that he made Mayweather fight like a Mexican, but I don't buy it. I think Mayweather chose this style of fight. After figuring out a brilliant hack which made him almost untouchable in 49 fights - a hack which pissed off fans because boxing wasn't "supposed" to be done that way - he decided to fight stupid and slow for number 50.
He said he did it to please the fans, and I believe him.
I'm someone who has complained about Mayweather's boring fighting style in the past, and this is giving me pause. It's like he's usually John Coltrane, spinning out harmonic variations that hardly anybody understand or appreciates, but for this fight he chose to be AC/DC, 'cause everybody like rocking out to that.
posted by clawsoon at 4:53 PM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
This video first clued me in to how Mayweather's style works. It's worth a watch if you like in-depth analysis.
The most characteristic action in Mayweather's style is his lean back, way back, tempting the other fighter forward, then a lightning-fast straight right to his opponent's face, then instantly back. It's reminiscent of a cobra's strike. (If he had venomous fangs in his gloves, most of his opponents would be dead.)
He'll also lean way forward sometimes, face unprotected. Think McGregor's hands-behind-the-back taunt, but with his face sticking way out. This works for Mayweather for the same reason that the cobra-strike move works: He's able to accelerate his upper body forward and back with incredible quickness. Leaning forward to tempt a jab; back to avoid it; forward to land the straight right; back (or down) to avoid the second punch. Most boxers are simply too slow to pull that off.
He doesn't do any of these moves as a formula. He adjusts during the fight to his opponent's responses, finding ways to tempt them into committing to a punch that his quickness can counter.
If they get too close, he clinches. He does not fight on the inside.
He also spends most of his fights stepping slowly back and sideways, drawing the other fighter forward. He's dropping breadcrumbs to tempt them into his traps, then springing his traps with incredibly quickness.
His previous fight, against Berto, from 18 months ago, has plenty of examples of all of this.
This time, he plodded forward. He let a little of his usual brilliance out at the end, when he was delivering the final blows - almost as if he couldn't help himself - but for most of the fight he did none of it.
McGregor said that he made Mayweather fight like a Mexican, but I don't buy it. I think Mayweather chose this style of fight. After figuring out a brilliant hack which made him almost untouchable in 49 fights - a hack which pissed off fans because boxing wasn't "supposed" to be done that way - he decided to fight stupid and slow for number 50.
He said he did it to please the fans, and I believe him.
I'm someone who has complained about Mayweather's boring fighting style in the past, and this is giving me pause. It's like he's usually John Coltrane, spinning out harmonic variations that hardly anybody understand or appreciates, but for this fight he chose to be AC/DC, 'cause everybody like rocking out to that.
posted by clawsoon at 4:53 PM on August 28, 2017 [6 favorites]
it's ridiculous to say McGregor cut ahead of Swanson
Luckily, I didn't say that, though I should have been more clear. 2014 Cub Swanson was in a very similar position to 2015 Conor McGregor. After Cub's first UFC fight, a loss to Ricardo Lamas, he won six fights in a row, with four by way of TKO/KO (as a reminder, Conor came to the UFC and won five in a row, similar competition, with four TKO/KO's). I was hoping Cub would get a shot at Aldo, but they fed him to Frankie Edgar instead and he hasn't looked the same since that loss. Less than a year later, Conor comes through similar competition and gets to avoid Frankie en route to the title shot. (By the way, I looove Frankie, but I didn't mention him because while he definitely got screwed over by the UFC, he did get one featherweight title shot that he deserved, and one that he kind of didn't.).
There were extensive discussions about granting Aldo a shot
I don't think that's going to cut it. Aldo was UFC featherweight champ for over three years and defended seven times. Even with injuries, the UFC had plenty of time to get Aldo into the lightweight title picture. And then when Conor McGregor knocked Aldo out, the UFC practically tripped over itself to figure out how to get another belt around Conor's waist.
Johnson is much weirder to list here, considering at the time in question he was 1-2.
I intentionally listed him. Around the time McGregor beat Aldo and his lightweight title shot was announced, Michael Johnson was on a four-fight win streak in the lightweight division. Not as compelling as Conor, but he deserved to be in the picture. By the time McGregor actually fought for the title, Johnson indeed lost two of three. But guess what? By the time McGregor actually fought for the lightweight title, he was 1-1 against UFC lightweights, whereas Johnson was 9-6 against UFC lightweights.
McGregor gets preferential treatment because he's wildly popular, which is affected by race and national background in complex ways
I agree, but I don't mind writing it the way I did.
MMA fandom has a problem with race, and the UFC as an organization has a problem with race. Fighters of color being fan favorites doesn't make the fans' embrace of Conor McGregor's antics any less distasteful. Not being explicitly discriminatory and having a diverse roster and diverse champions doesn't exculpate the UFC. If doing what's popular and what makes the most money results in racial imbalance, they need to stop doing that. They still have to answer for the "complex second-order effect" that resulted in Sage Northcutt and Paige VanZant's undeserved marketing exposure and lucrative paydays, and for Michael Bisping's middleweight "title reign" in which he defends against Dan Henderson and GSP while Jacare Souza, Gegard Mousasi and Yoel Romero fight, wait, fight, wait, and then eventually are dispatched by Robert Whittaker or leave the UFC. Don't even get me started on Dana White and the UFC's active undermining of champions Demetrious Johnson and Tyron Woodley.
I find it a stretch to say it's Ferguson's race that makes him less compelling for a title shot
In isolation, sure. In the historical context of race and martial arts in the US, I respectfully disagree.
posted by el gran combo at 10:09 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Luckily, I didn't say that, though I should have been more clear. 2014 Cub Swanson was in a very similar position to 2015 Conor McGregor. After Cub's first UFC fight, a loss to Ricardo Lamas, he won six fights in a row, with four by way of TKO/KO (as a reminder, Conor came to the UFC and won five in a row, similar competition, with four TKO/KO's). I was hoping Cub would get a shot at Aldo, but they fed him to Frankie Edgar instead and he hasn't looked the same since that loss. Less than a year later, Conor comes through similar competition and gets to avoid Frankie en route to the title shot. (By the way, I looove Frankie, but I didn't mention him because while he definitely got screwed over by the UFC, he did get one featherweight title shot that he deserved, and one that he kind of didn't.).
There were extensive discussions about granting Aldo a shot
I don't think that's going to cut it. Aldo was UFC featherweight champ for over three years and defended seven times. Even with injuries, the UFC had plenty of time to get Aldo into the lightweight title picture. And then when Conor McGregor knocked Aldo out, the UFC practically tripped over itself to figure out how to get another belt around Conor's waist.
Johnson is much weirder to list here, considering at the time in question he was 1-2.
I intentionally listed him. Around the time McGregor beat Aldo and his lightweight title shot was announced, Michael Johnson was on a four-fight win streak in the lightweight division. Not as compelling as Conor, but he deserved to be in the picture. By the time McGregor actually fought for the title, Johnson indeed lost two of three. But guess what? By the time McGregor actually fought for the lightweight title, he was 1-1 against UFC lightweights, whereas Johnson was 9-6 against UFC lightweights.
McGregor gets preferential treatment because he's wildly popular, which is affected by race and national background in complex ways
I agree, but I don't mind writing it the way I did.
MMA fandom has a problem with race, and the UFC as an organization has a problem with race. Fighters of color being fan favorites doesn't make the fans' embrace of Conor McGregor's antics any less distasteful. Not being explicitly discriminatory and having a diverse roster and diverse champions doesn't exculpate the UFC. If doing what's popular and what makes the most money results in racial imbalance, they need to stop doing that. They still have to answer for the "complex second-order effect" that resulted in Sage Northcutt and Paige VanZant's undeserved marketing exposure and lucrative paydays, and for Michael Bisping's middleweight "title reign" in which he defends against Dan Henderson and GSP while Jacare Souza, Gegard Mousasi and Yoel Romero fight, wait, fight, wait, and then eventually are dispatched by Robert Whittaker or leave the UFC. Don't even get me started on Dana White and the UFC's active undermining of champions Demetrious Johnson and Tyron Woodley.
I find it a stretch to say it's Ferguson's race that makes him less compelling for a title shot
In isolation, sure. In the historical context of race and martial arts in the US, I respectfully disagree.
posted by el gran combo at 10:09 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
The ever-insightful Jack Slack has released his post-fight piece on Mayweather/McGregor, and it is delightfully educational as we have all come to expect.
Your discussion of Swanson and Edgar suggests that you want to defend not the claim that McGregor hopscotched particular fighters, but just that the UFC is flighty and unfair in granting title shots. This is not under dispute.
I don't believe we've succeeded in not talking past each other regarding the other issues.
*Conor McGregor, you're taking everything I worked for, motherfucker. I'm going to fight your fucking ass. You know what's the real fight, what the real money fight is: me, not these clowns that you already punked at the press conference. Nobody wants to see that; you know you've beat them already. That's the easy fight. You want that real shit, right here.
posted by daveliepmann at 11:29 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Around the time McGregor beat Aldo and his lightweight title shot was announced, Michael Johnson was on a four-fight win streak in the lightweight division.I don't mean to be harsh but your timeline is hopelessly confused and does not support any of your statements whatsoever. McGregor beat Aldo on 12 December 2015. Michael Johnson lost to Nate Diaz precisely one week later, 19 December 2015—that was the occasion of Diaz' amazing post-fight callout* that earned him the McGregor fight when dos Anjos got injured. The four-fight win streak you speak of was a year earlier, while McGregor was fighting Siver. Johnson's streak ended mid-year with a loss to Dariush, contemporaneous with McGregor beating Mendes for the interim featherweight title. Any potential title shots for Johnson during this time went to Cerrone (who fought for the 155 strap on that same 19 December 2015 card), and to Pettis in spring 2015, while he was on a five-fight win streak that included a former champion, a one-time title challenger, and Cerrone. Johnson is a fine fighter but he just hasn't put together a run for the title.
Your discussion of Swanson and Edgar suggests that you want to defend not the claim that McGregor hopscotched particular fighters, but just that the UFC is flighty and unfair in granting title shots. This is not under dispute.
I don't believe we've succeeded in not talking past each other regarding the other issues.
*Conor McGregor, you're taking everything I worked for, motherfucker. I'm going to fight your fucking ass. You know what's the real fight, what the real money fight is: me, not these clowns that you already punked at the press conference. Nobody wants to see that; you know you've beat them already. That's the easy fight. You want that real shit, right here.
posted by daveliepmann at 11:29 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
I don't mean to be harsh but your timeline is hopelessly confused
Yikes. You're absolutely right about Michael Johnson. I apologize for my error and thanks for the correction and for the discussion!
posted by el gran combo at 11:55 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
Yikes. You're absolutely right about Michael Johnson. I apologize for my error and thanks for the correction and for the discussion!
posted by el gran combo at 11:55 PM on August 28, 2017 [2 favorites]
👍🏼 🤝
posted by daveliepmann at 12:11 AM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by daveliepmann at 12:11 AM on August 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
rhizome: Boxers <140lbs have a much easier time learning to take punches than deliver knockout blows, there's usually not enough mass behind punches at that level. Lighter weight matches almost always go the distance. Lots of action! Not much consequence.
Recommended: Baby-faced assassin knockout highlights.
posted by clawsoon at 6:09 PM on September 1, 2017
Recommended: Baby-faced assassin knockout highlights.
posted by clawsoon at 6:09 PM on September 1, 2017
Andre Berto has a great, funny interview about facing (normal, pre-McGregor) Mayweather in the ring. Mayweather is the greatest calculator in boxing. You might say that he turned that off for the McGregor fight, but it's probably more accurate to say that he calculated that he could walk forward on McGregor and not get hurt.
posted by clawsoon at 6:20 AM on September 14, 2017
posted by clawsoon at 6:20 AM on September 14, 2017
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