Gaslighting is just another tool in the fascist's psychological arsenal
September 1, 2017 2:02 PM Subscribe
Oh man, I love ContraPoints! I'm glad more people will be introduced to this channel.
posted by dr. moot at 4:08 PM on September 1, 2017
posted by dr. moot at 4:08 PM on September 1, 2017
Loved it, subscribed!
posted by Rufous-headed Towhee heehee at 5:17 PM on September 1, 2017
posted by Rufous-headed Towhee heehee at 5:17 PM on September 1, 2017
I normally can't be bothered to sit through a video of that length, but this was great. And must have taken a lot of work to put together -- I hope it gets a lot of views.
posted by uosuaq at 5:22 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 5:22 PM on September 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yes, amazing, thanks for this!
[I was very distracted by how much heshe looks like a good friend from high school]
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:54 PM on September 1, 2017
[I was very distracted by how much heshe looks like a good friend from high school]
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:54 PM on September 1, 2017
“Gentlewomen of the jury, ‘alpha male’ exhibit number 1 is a LARPing, Swedish fascist who plays Skyrim so that he can pretend he's killing feminists and ‘the Frankfurt school.’ No further questions!”
I needed this in my life. Thanks.
posted by ob1quixote at 8:24 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
I needed this in my life. Thanks.
posted by ob1quixote at 8:24 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
I enjoyed the analysis, but I thought the corny "alt-right video" she used to frame her discussion was just a little too "on the nose." I mean, anyone could be Roman. "American" is by definition not a European identity. A sword in a stone? Really?
Oh, wait...that was real?
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:41 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh, wait...that was real?
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:41 PM on September 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
I normally can't be bothered to sit through a video of that length, but this was great. And must have taken a lot of work to put together -- I hope it gets a lot of views.
It's linked from the video of course but should you wish to support this venture...
posted by atoxyl at 9:34 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's linked from the video of course but should you wish to support this venture...
posted by atoxyl at 9:34 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've only started in on the video, but the embedded parts of the alt-right stuff with the blonde children and sword and such claimed something to the effect of "our forefathers were secure in their identity ... they could say "I'm a Roman"... ". Which made me LOL (or at least make a snorting noise through my nose). Precisely who could claim to be a Roman changed quite a lot throughout the period, and was the subject of much debate and hand-wringing. And Romans might not all have looked exactly as the dipshit in the video imagines.
And somewhat predictably, the BBC and classicist Mary Beard came under fire earlier this year for daring to make an educational cartoon where a high-ranking Roman soldier had Algerian background and darker skin. Never mind the solid historical research that showed that this was probably a typical case.
posted by Harald74 at 10:09 PM on September 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
And somewhat predictably, the BBC and classicist Mary Beard came under fire earlier this year for daring to make an educational cartoon where a high-ranking Roman soldier had Algerian background and darker skin. Never mind the solid historical research that showed that this was probably a typical case.
posted by Harald74 at 10:09 PM on September 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
Precisely who could claim to be a Roman changed quite a lot throughout the period, and was the subject of much debate and hand-wringing.
Pffft. "Facts".
posted by flabdablet at 1:32 AM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Pffft. "Facts".
posted by flabdablet at 1:32 AM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
(Just a small note as an update to odinsdream's post above: she's been discussing her transition process on twitter for a while and a few weeks back she narrowed her pronouns down to she and they.)
posted by eykal at 3:40 AM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by eykal at 3:40 AM on September 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
It's back to school time and that video should be required viewing in all schools.
posted by james33 at 5:33 AM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by james33 at 5:33 AM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
This was a great video, and I especially liked the way she broke down the importance of being able to recognize dog whistles and also noting that, precisely because they are coded, people can use them by accident.
I'm Canadian, but I lived in the States for years, and Canada, like the US, has a pretty marked delineation between provincial and federal policy jurisdiction with a lot of debate on whether that line should move and in which direction. In many things, I'm a defender of maintaining or broadening provincial jurisdiction and, when I was living in the US, would sometimes use the term "states' rights" when talking about it because it seemed to encapsulate the idea. I was, for an embarrassingly long time, completely ignorant of the connotations that term has. I'm sure some people assumed I was a white supremacist and that's horrifying.
Similarly, the celtic cross is a beautiful symbol and it has so much history. There have been a few times recently, where people have called it out as fascist symbology where I've really wanted to stand up and say, no, that's not what it's about at all.
But, as annoying and exhausting as it is to have to constantly monitor the dog whistles being used by fascists, it's a responsibility we have. It doesn't obliterate the merit of states' rights as an idea, nor does it 100% poison the use of the celtic cross, but we have to remain aware of the changing meaning of the words and symbols we use if we want to use them properly.
posted by 256 at 8:50 AM on September 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm Canadian, but I lived in the States for years, and Canada, like the US, has a pretty marked delineation between provincial and federal policy jurisdiction with a lot of debate on whether that line should move and in which direction. In many things, I'm a defender of maintaining or broadening provincial jurisdiction and, when I was living in the US, would sometimes use the term "states' rights" when talking about it because it seemed to encapsulate the idea. I was, for an embarrassingly long time, completely ignorant of the connotations that term has. I'm sure some people assumed I was a white supremacist and that's horrifying.
Similarly, the celtic cross is a beautiful symbol and it has so much history. There have been a few times recently, where people have called it out as fascist symbology where I've really wanted to stand up and say, no, that's not what it's about at all.
But, as annoying and exhausting as it is to have to constantly monitor the dog whistles being used by fascists, it's a responsibility we have. It doesn't obliterate the merit of states' rights as an idea, nor does it 100% poison the use of the celtic cross, but we have to remain aware of the changing meaning of the words and symbols we use if we want to use them properly.
posted by 256 at 8:50 AM on September 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is fantastic, thanks for the post!
Also thanks for the note about her pronouns, odinsdream! She is lovely.
posted by bile and syntax at 1:28 PM on September 2, 2017
Also thanks for the note about her pronouns, odinsdream! She is lovely.
posted by bile and syntax at 1:28 PM on September 2, 2017
Dang, I saw this on Twitter and I didn't realize this had already been posted here. I'd just started gathering some links I was going to use to flesh out my post. So here they are.
Alt Right: A Primer about the New White Supremacy
Flags and Other Symbols Used By Far-Right Groups in Charlottesville
The Alt-Right’s Newest Ploy? Trolling With False Symbols)
posted by AFABulous at 2:59 PM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
Alt Right: A Primer about the New White Supremacy
Flags and Other Symbols Used By Far-Right Groups in Charlottesville
The Alt-Right’s Newest Ploy? Trolling With False Symbols)
posted by AFABulous at 2:59 PM on September 2, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think this video casts its net too wide. Supporting strict immigration law means your end-goal is genocide? Valuing western culture means you want a white ethno-state? Just because someone is conservative or traditional does not mean they are literally Hitler.
The left's overreaction to "fascism" these days reminds me of the right's earlier overreaction to "terrorism". Both threats were seriously overblown and the reaction to them ended up being far more harmful than the original things themselves.
posted by foobaz at 1:56 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
The left's overreaction to "fascism" these days reminds me of the right's earlier overreaction to "terrorism". Both threats were seriously overblown and the reaction to them ended up being far more harmful than the original things themselves.
posted by foobaz at 1:56 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure it's possible to overstate Bannon, and what him being in the "conservative" party's administration shows. Or that you had a literal fascist sheriff even associated with that party's election campaign, let alone being pardoned for it. I might think about comparisons of overreactions when they're phrased carefully enough to avoid casting their net to include multi billion dollar war machines...
Clearly there are people in the public sphere arguing for strictness in immigration controls, when what they want are white ethno-states. (While pointing out we have a specific word for how you achieve the later). Note she explicitly said that's not a requirement to appreciate western culture. The message I took from the video was mainly targeting those who don't identify as left-wing, asking them to think more critically about justifications given for shit like the "travel ban" (as an example of the most incompetent, transparent version of this).
I'm a hopeless critic, but I think it hit some massively important points (stuff like the Lee Atwater quote) in an entertaining and compact style. The end was a fun way to show self-awareness, while still making a strong argument overall. Condensed video is not really my taste, but if I hadn't already been soaked in this stuff on metafilter, it would have held my attention as an introduction.
posted by sourcejedi at 5:22 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Clearly there are people in the public sphere arguing for strictness in immigration controls, when what they want are white ethno-states. (While pointing out we have a specific word for how you achieve the later). Note she explicitly said that's not a requirement to appreciate western culture. The message I took from the video was mainly targeting those who don't identify as left-wing, asking them to think more critically about justifications given for shit like the "travel ban" (as an example of the most incompetent, transparent version of this).
I'm a hopeless critic, but I think it hit some massively important points (stuff like the Lee Atwater quote) in an entertaining and compact style. The end was a fun way to show self-awareness, while still making a strong argument overall. Condensed video is not really my taste, but if I hadn't already been soaked in this stuff on metafilter, it would have held my attention as an introduction.
posted by sourcejedi at 5:22 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
The message I took
/smacks head. Of course it says exactly the same thing in the video description. I am indeed hopeless as a critic.
posted by sourcejedi at 5:41 AM on September 3, 2017
/smacks head. Of course it says exactly the same thing in the video description. I am indeed hopeless as a critic.
posted by sourcejedi at 5:41 AM on September 3, 2017
Or that you had a literal fascist sheriff even associated with that party's election campaign,
Yeah, Sheriff Clarke is really a piece of w... oh, you meant the other literal fascist sheriff.
posted by AFABulous at 7:28 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, Sheriff Clarke is really a piece of w... oh, you meant the other literal fascist sheriff.
posted by AFABulous at 7:28 AM on September 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Alt-Right’s Newest Ploy? Trolling With False Symbols
posted by flabdablet at 11:41 AM on September 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
... the most fiendish trolls are evolving from weekend anglers who occasionally reel people in to Deadliest Catch-level professionals using bait so effective that people can’t seem to help biting.A cheap shot aimed squarely at those who deserve no better. Well played, Wired.
These master baiters represent the so-called alt-right ...
posted by flabdablet at 11:41 AM on September 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
The left's overreaction to "fascism" these days reminds me of the right's earlier overreaction to "terrorism". Both threats were seriously overblown and the reaction to them ended up being far more harmful than the original things themselves.
Sorry, what part of the reaction ended up being far more harmful than the original thing here in the left's "overreaction" to fascism? Are you talking about the way that the left protesting the Charlottesville demonstration and protecting many innocent people from being brutally assaulted by white nationalists was far more harmful than the part where the white nationalists still managed to brutally assault several people and also murdered Heather Heyer? Or perhaps you're saying that the way that the left similarly saved lives in Berkeley by sheltering them from violence is far more harmful than the right assaulting and brutalizing people with implied police consent?
Seriously, what exactly in the left's "overreaction" to fascism has been harmful at all to anyone except fascists?
Also, you're saying both threats were overblown like we're past the fact that the President of the United States is a violent white nationalist and a significant portion of the government and the police force of this country is eagerly following his lead. Do you know anything at all about what's going on?
posted by IAmUnaware at 10:21 PM on September 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Sorry, what part of the reaction ended up being far more harmful than the original thing here in the left's "overreaction" to fascism? Are you talking about the way that the left protesting the Charlottesville demonstration and protecting many innocent people from being brutally assaulted by white nationalists was far more harmful than the part where the white nationalists still managed to brutally assault several people and also murdered Heather Heyer? Or perhaps you're saying that the way that the left similarly saved lives in Berkeley by sheltering them from violence is far more harmful than the right assaulting and brutalizing people with implied police consent?
Seriously, what exactly in the left's "overreaction" to fascism has been harmful at all to anyone except fascists?
Also, you're saying both threats were overblown like we're past the fact that the President of the United States is a violent white nationalist and a significant portion of the government and the police force of this country is eagerly following his lead. Do you know anything at all about what's going on?
posted by IAmUnaware at 10:21 PM on September 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
« Older Protest poetry & the grandson of Idi Amin... | Have you encountered huge gelatinous blobs... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by iamkimiam at 2:46 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]