Jackie Chan’s Plan to Keep Kicking Forever
October 27, 2017 3:30 AM Subscribe
When Chan says, "I know I'm not young anymore. I cannot continue to make Rush Hour 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. How can I continue [to] do this kind of funny face," he pretends to throw a punch and then makes a face like Holy shit, that hurt, because it can hurt to punch somebody, often as much as being punched—a truth about human frailty that Jackie made into a comic trademark, as befits the Tom Hanks of kung fu movies.
This was just a great read- thanks for posting!
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 3:59 AM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 3:59 AM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't even know which part of this article I want to quote most; it's all so completely batshit. And I'd somehow forgotten about Drunken Master which, thinking back, might be one of my most favorite movies. Jackie seems to be, I don't want to say a mensch, because there are some questions here, but he's surely a capital-C Character.
Relatedly, this happened in our house last week. Beauty and the Beast was on the TV.
uncleozzy: Hey, do you know who did the Beast's voice in the Chinese dub? And sang the songs?
mrsozzy: Jackie Chan? Is that racist? Is he Chinese?
(It was, indeed, Jackie Chan.)
posted by uncleozzy at 5:03 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Relatedly, this happened in our house last week. Beauty and the Beast was on the TV.
uncleozzy: Hey, do you know who did the Beast's voice in the Chinese dub? And sang the songs?
mrsozzy: Jackie Chan? Is that racist? Is he Chinese?
(It was, indeed, Jackie Chan.)
posted by uncleozzy at 5:03 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Great article. My only complaint is that, in the discussion of his Hollywood films, they glossed over Shanghai Knights, which was the only one that stands with his best work.
posted by yankeefog at 6:19 AM on October 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by yankeefog at 6:19 AM on October 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
I haven't seen The Tuxedo, and indeed by all accounts it's a total failure of a movie, but I must credit the film's marketers for one of my favorite taglines of all time:
Class. Action. Suit.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:25 AM on October 27, 2017 [34 favorites]
Class. Action. Suit.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:25 AM on October 27, 2017 [34 favorites]
That was a delightful read. I really like the story about Johnny Knoxville and the coat.
posted by 256 at 6:39 AM on October 27, 2017
posted by 256 at 6:39 AM on October 27, 2017
Five years ago I was in Moscow for a journalism exchange between the US and Russia organized by the State Department, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and journalism organizations in the US and Russia (what a different world...). I was in TASSPhoto's offices for about a month and would often go to daily assignments with some of the wire service's photographers. One day, the call came into the editorial office that Jackie Chan would be at the Ritz-Carlton near the Kremlin to promote the movie "Armor of God 3: Mission Zodiac," also known as "Chinese Zodiac." I figured that'd be something fun to check out, so I tagged along with one of the photographers. A short subway ride and dodging past a handful of Asian people gathered outside the hotel hoping for a glimpse of the star, and we were in.
Still photographers weren't allowed into the press conference inside the hotel (or maybe we were just too late for that...those kinds of things never make for good photos anyway), but we were told that he would go up to the rooftop for a photo-op. We waited around inside for a little while and chatted amongst ourselves. I posted a photo to instagram and one of the photographers taught me the Russian verb инстаграмовать (instagramovat'...it's of the form that a lot of foreign words take when they get absorbed into Russian...maybe people use a different verb now). Then we headed up and then outside on a roof about 10 stories above Red Square.
I'm not sure how cold you've been, but standing on a rooftop on a windy, snowy day in Moscow in early December is just about the coldest I've been. They kept telling us that Jackie Chan would be making his way up soon. We huddled together on the press risers trying to keep warm. Eventually my boots quit providing warmth as the insulation on the bottom succumbed to the cold--they weren't great...I've spent a lot of time in Russia ashamed of my shoes, but these were especially bad.
The first hour passed, the second, the third... Eventually Jackie Chan showed up and he'd brought (or was given) a couple of Pandas to pose with. He smiled for the cameras with the Kremlin and other Red Square landmarks in the background. Really seemed like a nice, affable guy. Turned this way and that for each side of the risers. And then, after maybe 2 or 3 minutes, he was gone. We all shuffled back into the warmth of the hotel's glass-encased rooftop bar, muttering like photographers always do about how poorly we're treated at these kinds of things. Three hours for that!, etc...
Here are some of the pictures found via google images, but they don't really give you an idea of the scene.
If you'll excuse the self-post, here's one of my pictures from the ordeal. My interest wasn't so much in Jackie Chan but in how the Russian media operates. I gave up my spot on the riser after about 45 minutes of boredom waiting for the celebrity to arrive, figuring that maneuvering to the side would make for a more interesting picture. I wish you could hear the cacophony of Russian-accented shouts of "Look over here, Jackie," and "Smile!" and whatever else they were yelling.
posted by msbrauer at 6:40 AM on October 27, 2017 [26 favorites]
Still photographers weren't allowed into the press conference inside the hotel (or maybe we were just too late for that...those kinds of things never make for good photos anyway), but we were told that he would go up to the rooftop for a photo-op. We waited around inside for a little while and chatted amongst ourselves. I posted a photo to instagram and one of the photographers taught me the Russian verb инстаграмовать (instagramovat'...it's of the form that a lot of foreign words take when they get absorbed into Russian...maybe people use a different verb now). Then we headed up and then outside on a roof about 10 stories above Red Square.
I'm not sure how cold you've been, but standing on a rooftop on a windy, snowy day in Moscow in early December is just about the coldest I've been. They kept telling us that Jackie Chan would be making his way up soon. We huddled together on the press risers trying to keep warm. Eventually my boots quit providing warmth as the insulation on the bottom succumbed to the cold--they weren't great...I've spent a lot of time in Russia ashamed of my shoes, but these were especially bad.
The first hour passed, the second, the third... Eventually Jackie Chan showed up and he'd brought (or was given) a couple of Pandas to pose with. He smiled for the cameras with the Kremlin and other Red Square landmarks in the background. Really seemed like a nice, affable guy. Turned this way and that for each side of the risers. And then, after maybe 2 or 3 minutes, he was gone. We all shuffled back into the warmth of the hotel's glass-encased rooftop bar, muttering like photographers always do about how poorly we're treated at these kinds of things. Three hours for that!, etc...
Here are some of the pictures found via google images, but they don't really give you an idea of the scene.
If you'll excuse the self-post, here's one of my pictures from the ordeal. My interest wasn't so much in Jackie Chan but in how the Russian media operates. I gave up my spot on the riser after about 45 minutes of boredom waiting for the celebrity to arrive, figuring that maneuvering to the side would make for a more interesting picture. I wish you could hear the cacophony of Russian-accented shouts of "Look over here, Jackie," and "Smile!" and whatever else they were yelling.
posted by msbrauer at 6:40 AM on October 27, 2017 [26 favorites]
It was always my impression that Tom Hanks is the Jackie Chan of mainstream cinema.
posted by Bob Regular at 6:42 AM on October 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by Bob Regular at 6:42 AM on October 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
So, I'm realizing that, though I consider myself a Jackie Chan fan, I haven't actually seen any of the movies he's made in the last twenty years. I've seen about ten of his films, but the most recent is the original Rush Hour.
So, I'm definitely going to check out The Foreigner, but what are the best two films he's made since Rush Hour, so I can watch those too?
posted by 256 at 6:50 AM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, I'm definitely going to check out The Foreigner, but what are the best two films he's made since Rush Hour, so I can watch those too?
posted by 256 at 6:50 AM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
It was always my impression that Tom Hanks is the Jackie Chan of mainstream cinema.
He's his own thing.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:05 AM on October 27, 2017 [21 favorites]
He's his own thing.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:05 AM on October 27, 2017 [21 favorites]
I haven't actually seen any of the movies he's made in the last twenty years
that's because he's been working a lot in the PRC, making movies and singing and denouncing any and all pro-democracy movements
posted by runt at 7:29 AM on October 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
that's because he's been working a lot in the PRC, making movies and singing and denouncing any and all pro-democracy movements
posted by runt at 7:29 AM on October 27, 2017 [12 favorites]
Tom Hanks is the Jackie Chan of mainstream cinema.
what is with you white people and needing a white person substitute so that you can understand a PoC's sociocultural position when that person has made almost a billion dollars in your own damn film industry
he's motherfucking Jackie Chan, warts and all - how the fuck does adding Tom Hanks into this picture affect your understanding of him whatsoever? y'all are so complicit in your own white supremacist beliefs that you can't even see how ridiculous that is
posted by runt at 7:33 AM on October 27, 2017 [27 favorites]
what is with you white people and needing a white person substitute so that you can understand a PoC's sociocultural position when that person has made almost a billion dollars in your own damn film industry
he's motherfucking Jackie Chan, warts and all - how the fuck does adding Tom Hanks into this picture affect your understanding of him whatsoever? y'all are so complicit in your own white supremacist beliefs that you can't even see how ridiculous that is
posted by runt at 7:33 AM on October 27, 2017 [27 favorites]
So, I'm definitely going to check out The Foreigner, but what are the best two films he's made since Rush Hour, so I can watch those too?
I haven't seen all of Chan's movies since Rush Hour, but most of the ones I have were a bit disappointing. His foray into joint US/Hong Kong productions was not for the best as the films were often too westernized to really give Chan the chance to stand out, often placing him more as support for some lackluster would-be US star. Even Jet Li costarring with Jackie in The Forbidden Kingdom didn't save that movie from being largely obnoxious due to it being built around a crappy US teen that we Westerners need in order to identify with the story, allegedly.
My favorite film of his in recent years would be Little Big Soldier, which has Jackie playing a rather effective ineffectual solider who captures a general from the Qin forces who he hopes to trade for a plot of land. Railroad Tigers and 1911 were also enjoyable enough, but not really top grade must see kind of movies.
1911 is too patriotic rah rah message oriented and doesn't have the craft behind it to overcome that, while Railroad Tigers would have been a great Sammo Hung movie, but is just a pleasing enough group piece as directed by Ding Sheng. Chan's best movies are still those from the 80's & 90's like Police Story, Wheels on Meals, City Hunter, and The Legend of the Drunken Master. Even in that era though, one should add, there are some pretty questionable moments and ineffectual films.
posted by gusottertrout at 7:35 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I haven't seen all of Chan's movies since Rush Hour, but most of the ones I have were a bit disappointing. His foray into joint US/Hong Kong productions was not for the best as the films were often too westernized to really give Chan the chance to stand out, often placing him more as support for some lackluster would-be US star. Even Jet Li costarring with Jackie in The Forbidden Kingdom didn't save that movie from being largely obnoxious due to it being built around a crappy US teen that we Westerners need in order to identify with the story, allegedly.
My favorite film of his in recent years would be Little Big Soldier, which has Jackie playing a rather effective ineffectual solider who captures a general from the Qin forces who he hopes to trade for a plot of land. Railroad Tigers and 1911 were also enjoyable enough, but not really top grade must see kind of movies.
1911 is too patriotic rah rah message oriented and doesn't have the craft behind it to overcome that, while Railroad Tigers would have been a great Sammo Hung movie, but is just a pleasing enough group piece as directed by Ding Sheng. Chan's best movies are still those from the 80's & 90's like Police Story, Wheels on Meals, City Hunter, and The Legend of the Drunken Master. Even in that era though, one should add, there are some pretty questionable moments and ineffectual films.
posted by gusottertrout at 7:35 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I follow asavage's podcast, and a few months back he said in passing that Jackie Chan was akin to Buster Keaton in terms of the calibre of physical comedic skill (I hasten to add, in the wake of Runt's rant above - heh - that I took his comparison not as a sort of white-person comparison, but more like, "wow, physical comedy is hard - and hooray, here's two people who are super-good at it!"). It's only within the past couple months, though, that I've even become acquainted with Buster Keaton to the point of even knowing what he was talking about; I only knew about Jackie Chan, and sadly haven't seen much of his work (but have liked what I've seen).
And in a full-circle kind of way - I've also just this week seen a bit of something from Buster Keaton's later years. He was in an episode of The Twilight Zone that was written to give a nod to Keaton's silent film history - it's a time-travel episode, with the first half set in 1890 and done in a "silent film style", then jumping ahead to 1960. I'd heard about it, but in the wake of a recent Keaton-fest, I tracked it down. And even though Keaton was older and wasn't able to do the sort of super-acrobatic stunts he did in the 1920s, he absolutely and completely still had the timing, the performing instinct, and the awareness of what would work as physical comedy. The body was older, but the mind and the talent and the instincts in that body were as sharp as ever.
Just by reading the article I can tell Jackie Chan is the same way.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:54 AM on October 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
And in a full-circle kind of way - I've also just this week seen a bit of something from Buster Keaton's later years. He was in an episode of The Twilight Zone that was written to give a nod to Keaton's silent film history - it's a time-travel episode, with the first half set in 1890 and done in a "silent film style", then jumping ahead to 1960. I'd heard about it, but in the wake of a recent Keaton-fest, I tracked it down. And even though Keaton was older and wasn't able to do the sort of super-acrobatic stunts he did in the 1920s, he absolutely and completely still had the timing, the performing instinct, and the awareness of what would work as physical comedy. The body was older, but the mind and the talent and the instincts in that body were as sharp as ever.
Just by reading the article I can tell Jackie Chan is the same way.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:54 AM on October 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
I love looking up things like Jackie's compound/spanish village on google maps but can't find anything on "panlong valley." Even the name of the stunt school (as translated for this article) doesn't show up except for some articles announcing it's construction starting in Tianjin. Does anyone know where his stunt school is actually located/have some sweet lat/long for me?
posted by thecjm at 8:07 AM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by thecjm at 8:07 AM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I went to a book signing in 1998 for I Am Jackie Chan and it was at WalMart... there were a ton of people there and Jackie showed up in a limo and he looked so, so tired, but he was very gracious and smiled at everyone. This was right before Rush Hour came out and I remember thinking that this guy is arguably the biggest star in the world, except in the US, so he has to sign books at fucking Walmart to promote himself here.
I haven't seen The Foreigner yet, but it's not at all in his signature style. It's more like Taken. If you want to see Jackie distilled to his primal self, Young Master is a good one, one of his first.
posted by Huck500 at 8:11 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I haven't seen The Foreigner yet, but it's not at all in his signature style. It's more like Taken. If you want to see Jackie distilled to his primal self, Young Master is a good one, one of his first.
posted by Huck500 at 8:11 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
The weird thing is, Jackie Chan briefly lived in Canberra, Australia, as his parents worked in the US Embassy. He didn't really pick up on English and it was well before he made his name back in Hong Kong. But still.
posted by Merus at 8:20 AM on October 27, 2017
posted by Merus at 8:20 AM on October 27, 2017
i don't know if this counts for a rec, but this year's cny movies (not abt the new year per se but just movies slated for release in the biggest holiday season) had him in this meta-hilarious indian-chinese movie called kung fu yoga. it's not especially clever or great, but it was interesting because it was self-serving modern china propaganda about one belt one road but also a vision that recognises india's contribution to chinese culture. and in its own clumsy way was basically a riff and a critique of indiana jones and the temple of doom (yes jackie is an archaelogist). and it had this song as capper*. there's a more proper single here but same vibe(ish) i said i don't know if this is really a rec because i enjoyed it for my own reasons, and it's more of his sillier stuff than his prestige attempts.
*the hilar thing is it's only the 2nd 2017 cny movie that explicitly had a bollywood montage as a partial shorthand about india's relations to china, the other one being stephen chow's journey to the west 2.
posted by cendawanita at 8:23 AM on October 27, 2017
*the hilar thing is it's only the 2nd 2017 cny movie that explicitly had a bollywood montage as a partial shorthand about india's relations to china, the other one being stephen chow's journey to the west 2.
posted by cendawanita at 8:23 AM on October 27, 2017
Little Big Soldier is about the only one of his more recent films I've managed to see, but it is indeed worth watching, and provides a good look at where Jackie Chan can go as he gets too old to do balls to the wall action movies with insane stunts that nearly kill him. It's a considerably more dramatically ambitious role than his earlier films, where he pretty much is playing the same flat character (to the point where the English dubs of his earlier films tend to just call him "Jackie" like, you know, he's Jackie, the guy in the Jackie Chan movies.) And it shows that Jackie Chan can actually act when the film calls for it.
posted by Naberius at 8:53 AM on October 27, 2017
posted by Naberius at 8:53 AM on October 27, 2017
The stuff about Jackie Chan’s estrangement with Hong Kong was most interesting to me. He views HK as holding him back, whereas mainland China has embraced him fully. I suspect if he had become a bigger Hollywood star, he might be more critical of China.
As it is, why criticize something that has been so good for him?
posted by Big Al 8000 at 9:04 AM on October 27, 2017
As it is, why criticize something that has been so good for him?
posted by Big Al 8000 at 9:04 AM on October 27, 2017
msbrauer, your picture is miles above the boring ones on Google!
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:06 AM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:06 AM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is an aside, but this article of his best fight scenes is worth your time. You can argue about the picks, but taken together it's over an hour of Jackie being Jackie, which is one of the glories of this world of ours.
posted by YoungStencil at 9:14 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by YoungStencil at 9:14 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
EmpressCallipygos: " I've also just this week seen a bit of something from Buster Keaton's later years. He was in an episode of The Twilight Zone"
Watch it here: Once Upon a Time
posted by chavenet at 9:14 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Watch it here: Once Upon a Time
posted by chavenet at 9:14 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just dropping a link to Jackie Chan's Bruce Lee story because.
posted by rewil at 9:22 AM on October 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by rewil at 9:22 AM on October 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
runt, I took that comment as a humorous inversion of the pull-quote from the article. That original quote diminishes Chan by confining his relevance to kung fu movies, but isn't necessarily racist--I've seen similar comments that might say, for example, that John Carpenter is the Stanley Kubrick of horror films.
The inversion of the quote suggests that Chan is the standard and Tom Hanks should be viewed as how he compares to him. For a similar inversion from my own life, I went to a school occasionally called things like "the Harvard of the South", but a lot of students bought shirts quoting George Will as saying Harvard should be considered "the [my alma mater] of the Northeast" (of course, he was quoting someone else when he said that, making it part of the joke).
posted by Four Ds at 9:57 AM on October 27, 2017
The inversion of the quote suggests that Chan is the standard and Tom Hanks should be viewed as how he compares to him. For a similar inversion from my own life, I went to a school occasionally called things like "the Harvard of the South", but a lot of students bought shirts quoting George Will as saying Harvard should be considered "the [my alma mater] of the Northeast" (of course, he was quoting someone else when he said that, making it part of the joke).
posted by Four Ds at 9:57 AM on October 27, 2017
with respect, Four Ds, it sounds like you have no understanding of the sociocultural diminishing of people of color in the US, how often the trope of 'they're the *X WHITE PERSON* of Y' is used, and how that makes people of color residing and living in the American cultural milieu feel othered
your whole quote about Harvard being the Emory of the northeast is rooted in the fact that it would be absurd that anyone would ever think that Emory's standing could metaphorically denote quality above Harvard's ability to do so - such as the white supremacist belief that it would be absurd that anybody would use Jackie Chan to denote respect/down to earthness/other Tom Hanks brand image semiotics when the "real deal" was so much more readily available and appropriate
and the quote isn't even inverted between article and Metafilter post. they're exactly the same. your immediate need to fabricate some new non-racist reality does bring up an old joke I love, though:
"there isn't a single racial slur you can call a white person where they'll be offended. honky, cracker, whatever, they'll just shrug it off because they know they're in power. but call them a racist? well, you don't want other white people to think you're racist now do you?"
posted by runt at 10:40 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
your whole quote about Harvard being the Emory of the northeast is rooted in the fact that it would be absurd that anyone would ever think that Emory's standing could metaphorically denote quality above Harvard's ability to do so - such as the white supremacist belief that it would be absurd that anybody would use Jackie Chan to denote respect/down to earthness/other Tom Hanks brand image semiotics when the "real deal" was so much more readily available and appropriate
and the quote isn't even inverted between article and Metafilter post. they're exactly the same. your immediate need to fabricate some new non-racist reality does bring up an old joke I love, though:
"there isn't a single racial slur you can call a white person where they'll be offended. honky, cracker, whatever, they'll just shrug it off because they know they're in power. but call them a racist? well, you don't want other white people to think you're racist now do you?"
posted by runt at 10:40 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
The quote isn't inverted between the article and the Metafilter post. The quote was, however, inverted by the person you were actually quoting, runt. Which was a way of calling attention to the issue without trying to start a fight.
posted by Sequence at 10:58 AM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Sequence at 10:58 AM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
I certainly don't have a direct understanding of what it's like. I can imagine, but that's it.
To me, the original line from the article and pull quote, that Jackie Chan is the Tom Hanks of kung fu films, certainly does strike me as diminishing, and I can certainly believe that it's racist. I don't believe that it *has* to be racist, as I've seen the same formulation used in non-racist contexts, but it certainly could be, and as is noted in many other situations, it can be the cumulative effect that's really damaging, even if one particular usage isn't that bad by itself.
Given the diminishing effect of the original line, the response that "Tom Hanks is the Jackie Chan of mainstream cinema" struck me as inversion for humor. I don't understand your comment that there's no inversion there. Yes, the original would never go with the inverted formulation, and the inversion highlights that, calling attention to it. It just seems to me that while the original line is worthy of criticism, it seems odd to go after the inversion. Am I utterly missing the point?
posted by Four Ds at 11:03 AM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
To me, the original line from the article and pull quote, that Jackie Chan is the Tom Hanks of kung fu films, certainly does strike me as diminishing, and I can certainly believe that it's racist. I don't believe that it *has* to be racist, as I've seen the same formulation used in non-racist contexts, but it certainly could be, and as is noted in many other situations, it can be the cumulative effect that's really damaging, even if one particular usage isn't that bad by itself.
Given the diminishing effect of the original line, the response that "Tom Hanks is the Jackie Chan of mainstream cinema" struck me as inversion for humor. I don't understand your comment that there's no inversion there. Yes, the original would never go with the inverted formulation, and the inversion highlights that, calling attention to it. It just seems to me that while the original line is worthy of criticism, it seems odd to go after the inversion. Am I utterly missing the point?
posted by Four Ds at 11:03 AM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
without trying to start a fight
I used the inverted comment that snarkily implied that the quote was problematic but not directly naming white supremacy to name white supremacy. that's not 'fighty' unless you consider naming white supremacy a 'fighty' thing
but anyway, apologies Four Ds - you're right, it was I who was confused about your point. this stuff gets me... somewhat stirred up and I appreciate you staying even about it
posted by runt at 11:13 AM on October 27, 2017
I used the inverted comment that snarkily implied that the quote was problematic but not directly naming white supremacy to name white supremacy. that's not 'fighty' unless you consider naming white supremacy a 'fighty' thing
but anyway, apologies Four Ds - you're right, it was I who was confused about your point. this stuff gets me... somewhat stirred up and I appreciate you staying even about it
posted by runt at 11:13 AM on October 27, 2017
Can we all agree, though, that Jackie Chan and Tom Hanks could make for a pretty good buddy comedy?
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:28 AM on October 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:28 AM on October 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
"The Sound of Music," Jackie Chan says. "So good!"
Awww, this was such a good read. And now I want a movie where Jackie is martial arts training some cheery semi-orphans as they roam the Alps.
posted by TwoStride at 12:33 PM on October 27, 2017
Awww, this was such a good read. And now I want a movie where Jackie is martial arts training some cheery semi-orphans as they roam the Alps.
posted by TwoStride at 12:33 PM on October 27, 2017
Race aside, it is very insulting to Tom Hanks.
Chinese Redditor from Hong Kong explains how Jackie Chan is viewed at home as opposed to the well-liked guy in the West
posted by beatThedealer at 12:57 PM on October 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Chinese Redditor from Hong Kong explains how Jackie Chan is viewed at home as opposed to the well-liked guy in the West
posted by beatThedealer at 12:57 PM on October 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
FWIW, the Foreigner is a very good movie--well acted, and very well shot. Jackie Chan's acting is good, but IMO not a world-beater.
However, the movie's political leanings, while not quite as depressingly overt as Hero or (apparently, I haven't seen it) xenophobic as Taken, still hits a few of those classic authoritarian tough-guy fantasy tropes you find in action movies, suspense movies and would-be "thinking man's action movies" (gendered hypothetical person used advisedly).
Mild spoiler:
The resolution of the plot involves the approving use of mass surveillance and torture--with no particular acknowledgement of the ways that would, could, or in fact, in the specific situation set up by the movie, SHOULD fail.
posted by pykrete jungle at 1:31 PM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
However, the movie's political leanings, while not quite as depressingly overt as Hero or (apparently, I haven't seen it) xenophobic as Taken, still hits a few of those classic authoritarian tough-guy fantasy tropes you find in action movies, suspense movies and would-be "thinking man's action movies" (gendered hypothetical person used advisedly).
Mild spoiler:
The resolution of the plot involves the approving use of mass surveillance and torture--with no particular acknowledgement of the ways that would, could, or in fact, in the specific situation set up by the movie, SHOULD fail.
posted by pykrete jungle at 1:31 PM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
beatThedealer, thanks so much for giving the Chinese/Hong Konger perspective on Jackie Chan. While I was born in America, my parents immigrated from Hong Kong so I always got their perspective on big HK action stars. They read the HK newspapers and magazines almost religiously and always saw Jackie Chan in a bad light. Despite that, we still watched a lot of his movies, but it was always known that he was "a bad family man." So he has this big social pock mark on him in the HK entertainment world and in the meanwhile I talk to my caucasian American friends, they see Jackie Chan has this big positive "can do no wrong" comedy action superstar. They don't know about his actual global reputation from the Asian perspective.
So in that regard to a comment above, HK wasn't exactly "good" to him because really he wasn't really good in the HK entertainment and social lens to begin with... it makes sense he doesn't think about what he speaks and easily sides with China, and especially that's where a lot of movie bucks and influence comes from nowadays anyway.
posted by xtine at 1:35 PM on October 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
So in that regard to a comment above, HK wasn't exactly "good" to him because really he wasn't really good in the HK entertainment and social lens to begin with... it makes sense he doesn't think about what he speaks and easily sides with China, and especially that's where a lot of movie bucks and influence comes from nowadays anyway.
posted by xtine at 1:35 PM on October 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Also, reading this reminded me so much of a rich, philanthropic oilman. The sort of tycoon who is surrounded by wealth, yet continues to work extremely hard, in a fairly undiscerning way--with so many different business interests and projects and side hustles that he can jump from one to another as they draw his attention, who gives tons to charity, and genuinely believes that more people just working harder will solve the world's problems. Who has made it, and doesn't see why others can't. Who salutes the flag and country and thinks that civil quiet is the same thing as social justice.
posted by pykrete jungle at 1:39 PM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by pykrete jungle at 1:39 PM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
I follow asavage's podcast, and a few months back he said in passing that Jackie Chan was akin to Buster Keaton in terms of the calibre of physical comedic skill (I hasten to add, in the wake of Runt's rant above - heh - that I took his comparison not as a sort of white-person comparison, but more like, "wow, physical comedy is hard - and hooray, here's two people who are super-good at it!").
This is the danger of these kinds of rants: they having a chilling effect on discussions by making people afraid to speak about any comparisons even where they're both warranted and appropriate.
Chan himself has acknowledged the influence of classic silent physical comedians like Keaton and Harold Lloyd, and classic Hollywood dancers like Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers:
This is the danger of these kinds of rants: they having a chilling effect on discussions by making people afraid to speak about any comparisons even where they're both warranted and appropriate.
Chan himself has acknowledged the influence of classic silent physical comedians like Keaton and Harold Lloyd, and classic Hollywood dancers like Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers:
When, in 1996, a critic observed that Chan seemed to draw inspiration from silent comedian Harold Lloyd, Chan replied, “Not only Harold Lloyd, but Charlie Chaplin. And Buster Keaton—I think he's the best. And [during] their time they didn't have protection—elbow pads, knee pads, or special effects computers. They really surprised me. They did all [their own] crazy stunts—that's why I learned everything from them.” He continued, “I learned a lot of things from Gene Kelly and Fred Astaire. Actually, I totally copied from Gene Kelly and Fred Astaire...”
In two of his films, Chan went so far as to recreate several of his favorite silent comedians' greatest stunts: Project A (1983) and Project A 2 (1987) include the most direct homages, recreating and embellishing upon scenes from Chaplin's Modern Times (1936), Lloyd's Safety Last! (1923), Keaton's Sherlock Jr. (1924), and more.posted by Sangermaine at 3:02 PM on October 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
The closing credits of Jackie Chan movies always used to include outtakes and injury footage.
posted by larrybob at 3:38 PM on October 27, 2017
posted by larrybob at 3:38 PM on October 27, 2017
Great profile. It also reminded me of that thingy where you try to name three things that aren’t Jackie Chan. I’ll try:
1. Steel-belted radials
2. Marzipan
3. Jackie Chan
Dammit!
posted by valkane at 3:57 PM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
1. Steel-belted radials
2. Marzipan
3. Jackie Chan
Dammit!
posted by valkane at 3:57 PM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
The Foreigner was a good movie that could have been edited into a very good darker film or an even better more mainstream action film. There were some moments in it that absolutely worked, and the fights were great.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 5:51 PM on October 27, 2017
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 5:51 PM on October 27, 2017
the only other major thing about the foreigner that i also want to add is that the character IS meant to be vietnamese, he's only called 'the chinaman' because the brits/irish couldn't tell any different (from the book). i like jackie's turn in the movie, like i was legitimately affected at his pathos, but considering everything that is happening in the southeast asian region, i'm a bit :/ at the casting. and for sure, i'm all for more representation, but he's a big man from a big country, i can't be viewing everything from a western calculation.
posted by cendawanita at 6:39 PM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by cendawanita at 6:39 PM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, I'm realizing that, though I consider myself a Jackie Chan fan, I haven't actually seen any of the movies he's made in the last twenty years.
...so he's really the David Bowie of kung fu movies
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:07 PM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
...so he's really the David Bowie of kung fu movies
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:07 PM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
So, I'm definitely going to check out The Foreigner, but what are the best two films he's made since Rush Hour, so I can watch those too?I'll repeat my recommendation of Shanghai Knights. Jackie has a great chemistry with his co-star Owen Wilson, and it's the only one of Jackie's Hollywood films that feels like the production team understands what makes his Hong Kong movies so good. I think I read that a big part of that was scheduling enough time for choreographing and shooting the fight scenes-- most American movies rush through the shooting of these scenes, and then just edit them together in post-production.
Also, based on the behind-the-scenes documentary that comes with the DVD, it looks like the director just sat back with a cup of coffee and trusted Jackie to direct the fight scenes himself. I'm not being in any way snarky when I say this is a really intelligent and mature directorial decision -- I feel like the best directors know when to take charge and when to trust their collaborators. And if you don't trust Jackie Chan with a fight scene, you shouldn't be directing a Jackie Chan movie.
(Shanghai Knights is a sequel to Shanghai Noon, which is the second-best of his Hollywood films. But the action in Noon is nowhere near as good. You can skip it if you choose -- it's not like there's some vast series-spanning mythology you need to understand.)
posted by yankeefog at 3:16 AM on October 28, 2017 [4 favorites]
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QFT.
posted by chavenet at 3:40 AM on October 27, 2017 [22 favorites]