Collusion Course
December 1, 2017 7:29 PM   Subscribe

Day 316: former National Security Advisor to Trump, Michael Flynn, has pled guilty to lying to the FBI, widely believed to be a sign that Flynn has rolled on either senior administration officials or Trump family members. In particular, CNN is reporting that Flynn's plea bargain implicates Jared Kushner, and Buzzfeed suggests that he was working for both Russia and Turkey. Meanwhile, Senate Republicans are coming to the end of their shambolic process to put together a tax bill, and are preparing to vote. [This is a US politics catch-all thread: please read these important rules about how they work. Also, enjoy refreshing MetaFilter chat for your hot takes and instant reactions.]

In other news: Treason's Greetings!
posted by Merus (2085 comments total) 129 users marked this as a favorite
 
I still cannot get through my head how a PDF, saved as an image, with illegible scribbles all over the margins, isn't just another paper on my desk, but a tax bill that 50 Republican senators are dying to vote upon, heedless of the way it could totally screw over millions of people and cause not just national but international economic damage.
posted by maudlin at 7:33 PM on December 1, 2017 [69 favorites]


Mod note: Just to make sure people see, please check out our catch-all thread recalibration post and try to keep the chatter down and the thread high-information-density. Thanks!
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 7:34 PM on December 1, 2017 [27 favorites]


I wish there was a way to void the bill because it simply isn't legible, but I wouldn't think there's a way to do that.
posted by azpenguin at 7:38 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


It certainly has the feel of an undignified scramble not to leave any money on the table for GOP donors before that curtain falls (although the republicans certainly may have plenty of time)
posted by knoyers at 7:40 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


It’s getting late. Maybe they oughta postpone til Monday.
posted by notyou at 7:40 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


They voted a little while ago to NOT postpone.
posted by armacy at 7:41 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm sort of torn about this situation. Like everyone, I'm gripped and stoked by/about the Flynn situation, because all the Russia stuff is super sexy, but the tax bill is very, very bad, and unfortunately very, very boring, and the collision of these two huge stories probably means that Russian Collusion will win the media day, no one will dig into the problems with tax reform, and it will somewhat quietly pass. Anything very big in the Mueller investigation is at least months out, but the disaster that is tax reform is happening right now.
posted by Lutoslawski at 7:41 PM on December 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


As mentioned in the previous thread, the fact that Republicans are shamelessly voting for this indicates that for most of them the primary is the only election that matters - largely due to either juking electoral rules, or through outright fraud. This is a bill passed for the donors, who have a carrot (primary support) and a stick (giving money to fascists in the trump wing), and have successfully employed both to get a slight bump in their total net worth. More than that, draining the social, economic, and political capital of left leaning voting blocs - essentially an act of violence against a majority of the country (the most productive parts of it, too) in order to appease a bunch of angry, racist, ill informed dipshits who form the small fraction of the electorate necessary to win in a rigged system. Keep them angry, destroy your opponents, reap the profits.

It's fucking sick. It's sick that anyone could ever be so greedy - to have it all, and want to destroy other humans so you can have an insignificant amount more. These people could spend thousands a day for the rest of their lives, and still bequeath a comfortable inheritance to their children. We need to make them pay. It's also sick that you could be so afraid and small minded that you'd vote for your own destruction to attack stuff that you find scary. We need to make them pay, too. And it's especially fucking sick to be a law maker who's tasked with running a country, and to willfully destroy it so that you can maintain power. We especially need to make them pay. There're a lot of bills coming due, and I'm looking forward to seeing the payouts.
posted by codacorolla at 7:42 PM on December 1, 2017 [181 favorites]


I don't think media coverage is driving any votes, Flynn story or no.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:43 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


between the Flynn plea and this fucking unseemly legislative farce,

the GOP looks like a crew of burglars stuffing everything they can lift into bags as fast as they can and hoping that they correctly calculated the time it will take the cops to get there
posted by murphy slaw at 7:44 PM on December 1, 2017 [121 favorites]


The unborn-child provision has been removed by a challenge under the Byrd Rule, along with provisions for taxing certain foreign airlines and a restriction on hurricane aid so that only Louisiana was covered. My Senator, Toomey, is getting flak for being a tool of corporate interests. He doesn't care, because he's not up for re-election for a while.
posted by Peach at 7:45 PM on December 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


That (the Read the Bill rule) was a Boehner era rule, for the House, announced ahead of the 2010 vote, which was broken pretty much when things got serious shortly thereafter.
posted by notyou at 7:45 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


I don't think media coverage is driving any votes, Flynn story or no.

For sure. But I felt like the huge backlash against obamacare repeal from the public might have swayed those few republican votes against, and media coverage does drive public outcry to some extent. But you're probably right - tax reform will likely pass regardless of whatever happens.
posted by Lutoslawski at 7:51 PM on December 1, 2017


It turns out we paid, literally, for Trey Gowdy's obsession with HRC:
Rep. Trey Gowdy used $150,000 in taxpayer dollars to settle with a former aide who alleged he was fired in part because he was not willing to focus his investigative work on Hillary Clinton.
Gowdy is now the chairman of the House Oversight Committee. Isn't it ironic, don't you think?
posted by Dashy at 7:54 PM on December 1, 2017 [73 favorites]


Next up, an all-out assault on the safety net. Because, uh, there's no money to pay for it.
posted by Napoleonic Terrier at 7:55 PM on December 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


They voted a little while ago to NOT postpone.

@amyklobuchar Breaking: On floor where senator Schumer asked to adjourn until Monday so that senators AND the American taxpayers can look at tax bill. We got it four hrs ago and it is 500 pgs w/1.4 tril in debt. Republicans are all voting no. #RipoffWith NoDebate

Keep in mind that this no vote on postponement until everyone could actually get a chance to read the fucking major tax bill they're voting on includes Senator John "Concerns About The Process" McCain.

If, when they regain power, the Democrats don't do whatever they can, wherever they can, to put in place stronger checks on all the truly unprecedented shit we've seen in the last year, then they will have utterly failed.
posted by triggerfinger at 7:55 PM on December 1, 2017 [98 favorites]


I'd love to hear the Parliamentarian smack down this scribbled in the margins shit.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:56 PM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


If dems camped out and offered an endless parade of amendments, all themed at “look at how corrupt this bill is”, that might get some media attention, no?
posted by Glibpaxman at 7:58 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Something to kick off your weekend: Hecklers yelling "lock him up" at Flynn as he leaves court today.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:00 PM on December 1, 2017 [28 favorites]


The one thing giving me some semblance of hope throughout this nightmare has been the unparalleled professionalism of the Mueller investigation. It's so very 2017 that the same day that he delivers the first shot across the bow of the USS Trumpkin, the GOP is working so feverishly to fuck so many Americans. The one day when news from the White House should be giving us something to cheer for, we have to instead balance that against what's going on in the Capitol building.

PDFs with scribbled markings on them? Are you fucking kidding me? Remember when the Republicans lectured Democrats about a drafting error in the ACA, and forced the issue all the way to the Supreme Court? Now apparently anything written on the back of a bar napkin can be monkey-patched directly on to the US Code. Maybe we can set up a Twitter bot so that Congressional Republicans can change the law directly by tweeting a picture of whatever monstrous ideas their lobbyists have asked for without having to leave the friendly confines of the happy hour at Johnny's Half Shell.

Regular order. John McCain said this shit is regular order. Thumbs down, asshole. To anyone who bought into the meme that was going around a few weeks ago that McCain, Corker, and Flake were going to be a thorn in the side of Trump and the rest of the GOP caucus, here's a Christmas-themed joke for you:

Santa Claus, an old drunkard, and a moderate Republican are walking down the street when they notice a $100 bill laying in the snow. Who picks it up?

The old drunkard, of course -- the other two don't exist.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:00 PM on December 1, 2017 [104 favorites]


Remember when the Republicans lectured Democrats about a drafting error in the ACA, and forced the issue all the way to the Supreme Court?

Let's tie this bullshit bill up in legislation, then.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:01 PM on December 1, 2017 [29 favorites]


The old "America is a republic and not a democracy" saw is certainly feeling unusually truthful today, it's true.
posted by Artw at 8:02 PM on December 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


If dems camped out and offered an endless parade of amendments, all themed at “look at how corrupt this bill is”, that might get some media attention, no?

That's what a vote-a-rama is, essentially. They've already offered a number of amendments intended to embarrass Republicans who vote no, such as motions to send the bill back to committee with instructions to make it deficit neutral or better for the middle class and such. Or to wait until Monday. They can offer lots of germane amendments, but it's really just a process of exhaustion, making Senators crash on cots and keep voting until they eventually pass it anyway.
posted by zachlipton at 8:03 PM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


The Wall Street Journal has a version with the margins text (not a direct PDF link), page 257. It's still not legible. Also it includes the crossed-out religious school stuff starting on page 70. Presumably there's an official typed version somewhere.
posted by netowl at 8:08 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


They can offer lots of germane amendments, but it's really just a process of exhaustion, making Senators crash on cots and keep voting until they eventually pass it anyway.

They're old and feeble. Make them work for their betrayal of the American people.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:09 PM on December 1, 2017 [60 favorites]


Richard Rubin is saying that if the bill passes and later we discover that something in it fails the Byrd rule, basically, tough shit, no real solution post-passage. Great stuff.
posted by prefpara at 8:09 PM on December 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


That's what a vote-a-rama is, essentially. They've already offered a number of amendments intended to embarrass Republicans who vote no, such as motions to send the bill back to committee with instructions to make it deficit neutral or better for the middle class and such. Or to wait until Monday. They can offer lots of germane amendments, but it's really just a process of exhaustion, making Senators crash on cots and keep voting until they eventually pass it anyway.

I meant an actual endless parade. Like all weekend. Or longer. Supposedly Republicans have a tight legislative schedule right? Well...
posted by Glibpaxman at 8:09 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Presumably there's an official typed version somewhere.

If they had a typed version they'd have sent it around. Don't presume competence here in the absence of evidence.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:09 PM on December 1, 2017 [54 favorites]


Let's tie this bullshit bill up in legislation, then.

Serious question: how would this work? Is it a possibility? Some of Trump's more horrific moves have been successfully blocked by legislation. Is this something that could be done with a tax bill that has been passed by Congress? Or is that what the Senate Parliamentarian is there to prevent?
posted by triggerfinger at 8:10 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


The US government has always been a rambling circus of incompetence, avarice, corruption, and comedy. This is nothing new. As Welcome to Night Vale says, "Those who remember history are also doomed to repeat it."
posted by Peach at 8:18 PM on December 1, 2017 [21 favorites]


Have there never been bills requiring a waiting period between the writing of a bill and the voting on it? It seems to me that there should be a requirement, especially on a 479-page bill, to give adequate time for people to read it.

Yes, I know the GOP wants to screw everyone, but it's in everyone's interest for when the tides turn. Like when you tell your kids, "OK, YOU can cut the pieces, but (other kid) YOU get to pick your piece first" and then it's fair for everyone.

Anyone else having multi-day hyperventilating agita?
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 8:18 PM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


> Also it includes the crossed-out religious school stuff starting on page 70

Good Lord. I wonder how that would hold up in court, if it becomes law as-is: what does a line drawn down a page mean? That the text under it is not binding, or that someone's pen slipped?
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:21 PM on December 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


Meanwhile, Newsweek kinda states the obvious, Jared Kushner Can’t Pass His Security Clearance Investigation, Officials Say
Jared Kushner is a security risk embedded in the West Wing since he still hasn't passed a comprehensive background investigation required of anyone seeking a permanent security clearance—and no one will question the president's decision to put his son-in-law in a crucial government role, experts and officials told Newsweek.

President Donald Trump's senior adviser has been working under an interim security clearance nearly a year into the administration, as investigators continue to assess his trustworthiness and analyze his web of active foreign investments, according to two sources with knowledge of the status on Kushner's clearance.[...]

Newsweek spoke with seven of the nation's leading law firms specializing in security clearance law, with clients throughout the Trump administration and federal government. All seven said Kushner's security clearance should be suspended until investigators can determine whether his failures to disclose information were intentional. Meanwhile, the White House has claimed the delay in Kushner's clearance is normal due to a backlog in applications.
The only silver lining in this situation is that Jared's profile at the White House is diminishing—plus the odds he lied to Mueller when he was interviewed last month about Flynn are 99.9 (repeating) percent.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:23 PM on December 1, 2017 [38 favorites]


Watching this bill about to be passed has been quite illuminating. Also, Net Neutrality is next to die by the end of the year before we move to full entitlement "reform." The GOP won the long war and they won it decisively.
posted by RedShrek at 8:28 PM on December 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** 2018 House:
-- At this point, ethical probes are practically their own section....

-- TX-27 rep Blake Farenthold had a sexual harassment case settled in 2015 (previously known) and used $84k in taxpayer money to settle it (new info). This is a safe GOP district (Trump 60-37), but Farenthold underwhelmed in the 2016 primary, and faces at least one foe this year, so he may not reach the general.

-- John Conyer's lawyer says he will address his status in a day or two. Word on the street is that Conyer's will retire early due to "health issues," but we shall see.

-- The former campaign finance director for NV-04's Ruben Kihuen accused him of sexual harassment during the campaign. The DCCC chair has already called for Kihuen's resignation. Kihuen flipped the district 49-45 last year, Clinton won the district 50-45.

-- Contrary to earlier speculation, Bobby Rush is running again in IL-01. This is a safe Dem seat (Clinton 75-21).

-- In a story that fulfills everything you expect about Trey Gowdy, the SC-04 rep used $150k in taxpayer funds to settle with a former aide who said he was fired because he was not willing to focus his investigative work on Hillary Clinton. The district is safe GOP (Trump 60-35).
** 2018 Senate:
-- Prominent Republicans keep passing on running against Heidi Heitkamp in North Dakota. ND would seem an obvious target, as Trump took the state 64-28, but Heitkamp is well liked, and potential candidates can sense which way the wind is blowing.

-- PPI poll has Feinstein up 45-21 on challenger de León, which is not super strong for a longtime incumbent (de León had low familiarity numbers). Still looks like a reasonable shot of both slots in the top two being Dems, which would be bad news for downballot Republicans.
** Odds & ends -- Proposed maps for NC legislative districts are back from the court appointed expert. There's a hearing in early January, but all indication is the court will enforce these. Likely outcome is a several seat pickup for Dems in the legislature, enough to block the GOP from overruling Gov Cooper's vetoes.

======

-- There are about eight January special elections, I'll get something up on them in the next few days.

-- And thanks to everyone for your congratulations on my MASSIVE LANDSLIDE VICTORY, I'll keep you posted on how my new mission statement of "Land, Peace, Bread" goes over.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:28 PM on December 1, 2017 [108 favorites]


This is a bill passed for the donors, who have a carrot (primary support) and a stick (giving money to fascists in the trump wing)

Another possible carrot is a slick high-paying job as a lobbyist for said donors.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:31 PM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Virtually every forecaster - both the more polling/analytical guys and the more race by race breakdown ones - is saying the Dems have a 50% or slightly greater chance of retaking the House in 2018. Gerrymandering only takes you so far when you are down 10 points on the generic ballot and you're looking at lots of retirements.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:39 PM on December 1, 2017 [24 favorites]


It is sad that I almost hope the tax bill passes, so that the GOP has no further use for this garbage traitor president and will stop defending him.
posted by miyabo at 8:40 PM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


> It is sad that I almost hope the tax bill passes, so that the GOP has no further use for this garbage traitor president and will stop defending him.

Wash your mouth out with soap. Trump is the missile, and this fucking bill is the payload.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:43 PM on December 1, 2017 [76 favorites]


It is sad that I almost hope the tax bill passes, so that the GOP has no further use for this garbage traitor president and will stop defending him.

They still need him to sign the repeal of Social Security and Medicare before they'll be ready to cut bait and blame all of the fallout on Trump alone, remember, he was a Democrat before running as a Republican.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:43 PM on December 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


This tax bill is a fucking travesty. And I'm usually a "let 'em get what they want, give 'em rope, and the pendulum will swing back" kind of guy, but this is bad. As in, etch things in stone bad. As in, even if the Democrats rout Republicans in 2018 (which ain't gonna happen anyway), this tax plan will still be a fucking disaster for years to come. Decades. Trump will be just a terrible memory after not too terribly long, but the effects of this will put the whole country in damage control in so many different ways I can't even imagine. I haven't been this gloomy about politics since election night last year.
posted by zardoz at 8:44 PM on December 1, 2017 [26 favorites]


I somehow went down a rabbit hole on Texas congresspeople, which led me to this good article from the Texas Observer on Beto O'Rourke: Beto Testing

(I have high - some might say misplaced - hopes of Ted Cruz getting thrashed next year by Beto O'Rourke)
posted by triggerfinger at 8:53 PM on December 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


That's what my husband said. He's optimistic that the date after this bill's passage will be the date that DJT outlives his usefulness. I want to believe him, but there's no evidence yet that I should!

Sorry to disappoint. He has a long list of judicial vacancies to fill. Not going anywhere until that's finished.
posted by scalefree at 8:55 PM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


essentially an act of violence against a majority of the country

Tax cuts are as close to The Purge as Republicans can get. For now.
posted by Beholder at 8:56 PM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


It’s getting later. Still no final vote? Keep them at work until the No’s win.
posted by notyou at 8:57 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


And I'm usually a "let 'em get what they want, give 'em rope, and the pendulum will swing back" kind of guy, but this is bad.

This is exactly why I'm not a "let 'em get what they want" kind of person. Too often, they aren't the only ones getting what they claim to want--it's the rest of us reaping the poison they sow.

I'm going to go leave a set of very, very angry voicemails, because I believe that you throw every threat you can in the way of this shit before it passes, and you make them fight for every inch of ground. And if that means the only thorn in their sides is that I fill up another voicemail inbox, that's no reason not to do it.

I hear Trump over NPR quoted as trying to induce his base to call their senators and fill those inboxes, too. The fact that he's begging for that "silent majority" to speak up means that these calls are making a difference and making these fools who have mistaken their own dicks up their asses for spines fear for their jobs. That matters. Even if they pass it, they don't get to pretend I am so paralyzed with despair that I will let them act without comment.

Someone's got to respect due process and the rule of law. If our own lawmakers don't even pretend to do so, why on earth bother having a nation at all?
posted by sciatrix at 8:57 PM on December 1, 2017 [36 favorites]


(I have high - some might say misplaced - hopes of Ted Cruz getting thrashed next year by Beto O'Rourke)

Beto's my boy. I'm signed up to volunteer for his campaign.
posted by scalefree at 9:00 PM on December 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


Mine too, we've donated to Beto's campaign. Love him.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:01 PM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


Now apparently anything written on the back of a bar napkin can be monkey-patched directly on to the US Code.

The Laffer curve, which for years has been used by conservatives to justify tax cuts, was literally formalized on a napkin.
posted by dephlogisticated at 9:01 PM on December 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


Beto seems so likeable, and Ted Cruz is the literal, LITERAL opposite. Seems like madness that it's even a contest.
posted by triggerfinger at 9:04 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


So... I'm not a huge fan of Vox* but this was "interesting."

It certainly involves a lot of assumptions.

* They tend toward the horserace and engage the both-sider thing a bit much.
posted by sjswitzer at 9:05 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


On a cheerier note, Beto O'Rourke has been campaigning for months and is generating interested, pleased buzz statewide. No one is going to challenge him in a primary, and he has full and pleased party support down here. It'd have been nice if the Castro brothers wanted to run, but they've opted to support his run instead. I have not heard a single Texan liberal express anything but delight and enthusiasm for O'Rourke's run, and the local Dem caucus have locked in behind him with all the unison of Roman legionnaires building the turtle.

On the other hand, Cruz is widely hated even among Republicans, to the point that Cornyn only relented his two-year refusal to endorse Cruz in his next campaign a few months ago. He's already got a primary challenger for the Senate seat who doesn't appear to be completely out to lunch in terms of Republican base-winning, and we have open primaries: it's not like anything stops anyone, up to and including registered Democrats, voting in Republican primaries just to undermine Cruz. Not... that anyone would do that, I've been told.

(I care more about down-ticket Dem primaries, but if there's nothing more competitive going on in terms of local party politics in 2018... we'll see what primary I vote in.)

I got hopes for Beto, man.
posted by sciatrix at 9:09 PM on December 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


Beto seems so likeable, and Ted Cruz is the literal, LITERAL opposite. Seems like madness that it's even a contest.

Yeah, well...Texas.

I've lived here for 25 years and I'm still amazed/horrified at the politics.
posted by blurker at 9:13 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm going to go leave a set of very, very angry voicemails, because I believe that you throw every threat you can in the way of this shit before it passes, and you make them fight for every inch of ground.

in the early days of WW2 when the Nazis blitzkrieged most of Europe and drove the Brits back to their crowded island, all in less than a year, it's instructive what Britain did next. Having effectively lost their army (certainly as an offensive force), they relentlessly threw everything they had into countering Hitler's aggression via "other" means (espionage, aiding and abetting underground movements throughout occupied Europe and elsewhere through Asia and Africa, lobbying America, etc). Long and insanely complicated story made short -- history now tells us that it mattered that they did this in all manner of ways that nobody could have seen coming. But such is war (and make no mistake, that's what going on right now), it's a time of chaos, you can't ever really know what's coming, but you can commit, you can play a long game, you can strike blows against the empire, however infinitesimal they may seem, because you never really know how they'll land.

Fight The Power and all that.
posted by philip-random at 9:14 PM on December 1, 2017 [122 favorites]


I want to rep this from the last thread: Ezra Klein, "The case for normalizing impeachment", because i feel super vindicated for saying very similar things a couple months ago
We have grown too afraid of the consequences of impeachment and too complacent about the consequences of leaving an unfit president in office. If the worst happens, and Trump’s presidency results in calamity, we will have no excuse to make, no answer to give. This is an emergency. We should break the glass.
Also interesting is this: "Rep. Sherman, who introduced articles of impeachment against Trump into Congress, says, “the legal theoreticians will tell you that impeachment just a matter of politics. I'm a politician, and I'm here to tell you that it's a matter of legal analysis.”" Which sounds like he's saying, this isn't going to go anywhere without criminal evidence. Which is probably true. but. what if, bear with me, they don't find any? Trump is still just as dangerous.

"Normalizing impeachment", in this case, means considering it as an option for when a president is merely dangerously incompetent (but not a criminal). We may not get there in time to impeach Donald Trump, but I think we need to get there in the future.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:16 PM on December 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


i feel about this tax bill tonight exactly the way i felt the first night of the iraq war in 03 watching the live cnn video of the baghdad skyline.. the gut level helpless feeling that massive, crippling, stupid insanity was inevitable and just as inevitable would be its consequences.
posted by wibari at 9:20 PM on December 1, 2017 [63 favorites]


@sahilkapur: The CBO score of the revised Senate tax bill just landed. It raises 10-year deficits by $1.474 trillion.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:23 PM on December 1, 2017 [39 favorites]


The Tax Policy Center has a nice easy bar chart to show that the bulk of these cuts go directly to the 0.1% over time, while the rest of us get next to nothing (this of course ignores the enormous spending cuts).

It is hopeful to remember that the majority of us have not yet lost empathy for our fellow man, and this has been rammed through by lobbied interests.
posted by hexaflexagon at 9:24 PM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


That new CBO score will definitely have a few Republican Senators very concerned as they vote yes.
posted by perhapses at 9:25 PM on December 1, 2017 [53 favorites]


After speaking to Rep. Kihuen, Pelosi called on him to resign in the wake of harassment allegations.
“In Congress, no one should face sexual harassment in order to work in an office or in a campaign. The young woman’s documented account is convincing, and I commend her for the courage it took to come forward,” Pelosi said. “In light of these upsetting allegations, Congressman Kihuen should resign.”
posted by zachlipton at 9:26 PM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


While this shit show plays out in the US Senate, I've been chewing over the Flynn plea a bit. Reading this Ruth Marcus editorial in the WaPo reminded me of something interesting:
The biggest unanswered question about Flynn: Why has Trump, a man for whom loyalty is a distinctly one-way street, been so desperate to protect him? “I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go,” Trump urged James B. Comey in February, a few months before firing the FBI director. “He is a good guy.”
I'd forgotten that that bit of the Comey firing drama. Now Comey's vague Instagram quote makes more sense, and it makes it clearer to me that Flynn must know where many of the bodies are buried. (Metaphorically, although would you be shocked if it turned out to be literally true?) And Mueller has given Flynn immunity to a narrowly laid out set of charges so far, according to the Lawfare analysis posted upthread. So there's plenty of leverage...

I think we should brace for incoming tweets.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:27 PM on December 1, 2017 [29 favorites]


Which sounds like he's saying, this isn't going to go anywhere without criminal evidence. Which is probably true. but. what if, bear with me, they don't find any? Trump is still just as dangerous.

I'd think that even if Trump wasn't directly in the loop on Trump-Russia, he's provably guilty of obstruction of justice on Flynn et. al.
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:32 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


And there's the emoluments thing that hasn't gone away and the R's just hope will become background noise if they keep ignoring it. "Taking money from foreign governments for special consideration" falls well under the range of impeachment charges.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:34 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Okay, I called my senator. Got voice mail, left a message asking, well more like demanding a no vote. Finished up with: This is how angry I am. I am in Thailand and I'm calling you on Skype.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 9:36 PM on December 1, 2017 [58 favorites]


Anticipating doom, and considering next moves... what is the rationale for individual and corporate tax rates and tax filing rules to be different, at all? Why shouldn't an individual be able to deduct their rent from their taxable income, like a company can deduct its rent via the concept of "profit"?

Show the electorate exactly what the plutocracy looks like by calculating how much further in the hole federal and state and local budgets would be if everyone paid the rates that the wealthy do, and campaign on unifying everything so that when individuals and families "operate at a loss", which is most of the time for most people, they pay taxes like companies do, and raise the corporate rate accordingly.

Simplifying taxes? We'll show you simplifying taxes.
posted by XMLicious at 9:36 PM on December 1, 2017 [20 favorites]


what is the rationale for individual and corporate tax rates and tax filing rules to be different, at all?

The theory is that money businesses spend on expenses - like paychecks and rent and such - is someone else's income, and therefore already being taxed. So only "profits" are money that isn't otherwise being taxed. Problem is, they've adjusted the numbers such that a lot of those "expenses" aren't being taxed elsewhere, or they're being taxed at a much lower rate than they would be if they were business profits.

But this may indeed be the year to look into incorporating yourself, and hiring yourself to do your day job, and counting all your paycheck as "operating expenses" and writing off all your living expenses as corporate costs.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:42 PM on December 1, 2017 [23 favorites]


Well, Chrysotom, write yourself in.
posted by notyou at 9:46 PM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


@daveweigel: Reminder: The idea that the Pelosi Democrats jammed votes on unseen bills was so pervasive that the GOP pledged to make them available for three days so voters could read them.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:57 PM on December 1, 2017 [53 favorites]


While we wait for the vote (last estimate I heard was closer to 2am eastern), I cannot emphasize enough how much of this is not just class warfare, but generational warfare. A bunch of rich baby boomers are voting tonight to saddle the rest of us with trillions in debt to pay for their lifestyles, their private jet tax breaks. This debt isn't going to invest in our futures; it's not being spent on infrastructure and education. Heck, Congress won't even fund CHIP and provide health care to children.

And then they'll come along and tell us that, gosh, we're broke and we can't afford Social Security and Medicare anymore, that we can't afford the same benefits our parents and grandparents got, the ones we're working right now to pay for. And when that's done, these ghouls will finally retire, cashing in their stock portfolios, newly engorged with the benefits of a corporate tax break, and enjoy the health and financial security they've denied to their children.

I also think this is going to cost a whole lot more than the CBO estimates once people start exploiting all the loopholes that wind up in a massive bill written in the middle of the night. How much is the last-minute amendment offering preferential treatment for publicly traded partnerships really worth? Nobody knows, but hedge funds are going to have experts exploit it for every penny they can.
posted by zachlipton at 10:05 PM on December 1, 2017 [118 favorites]


Heck, Congress won't even fund CHIP and provide health care to children.

What's holding up the reauthorization of CHIP is Republican demands that it be paid for. While they have no problem showering 1.5 trillion on rich 5500 families and corporations. You can't make up something more evil.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:09 PM on December 1, 2017 [85 favorites]


So, when handwritten notes and crossed-out sections get turned into the final published version, who does the transcribing?
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:11 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Code written during crunch time on very little sleep is usually really bad and unstable. Whenever I do that, I invariably do the dog head tilt thing at it the next day and wonder what I was thinking.

I'm so glad legislation is absolutely nothing like that at all! MAGA!
posted by fnerg at 10:11 PM on December 1, 2017 [27 favorites]


United Way comes out against the tax bil, citing the 31 million people who will no longer receive deductions for donating to charity.

This is kind of a weird policy problem, because doubling the standard deduction means lots of people benefit regardless of what deductions they qualify for. That's not an inherently bad idea. But it also means most of the middle and upper-middle class lose the tax advantage to donate to charity, and that's likely to lead to people giving less.
posted by zachlipton at 10:15 PM on December 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


The theory is that money businesses spend on expenses - like paychecks and rent and such - is someone else's income, and therefore already being taxed. So only "profits" are money that isn't otherwise being taxed.

But that doesn't seem like something which would differentiate individuals from companies. The rent paid by an individual to a residential landlord is the landlord's income as much as the rent paid by a company is income for the owner of the business-zoned property.

If it's okay to tax the individual's personal income once, and then tax the same money again when received by their landlord, but conversely skip the first instance of taxation when it's a company and a corporate landlord... it seems quite workable to me to just do the same thing in both instances.

Treating individuals and corporations the same would just mean that tax entities (people) with revenue in the vicinity of an average person's total living expenses won't be paying most of the taxes, but rather the tax entities with much larger profit margins will. And when your landlord raises your rent, it will erase part of your tax burden. Maybe, if designed properly, it would even create a common societal interest in keeping incomes in proportion to average living expenses a.k.a. "a living wage"...
posted by XMLicious at 10:27 PM on December 1, 2017 [13 favorites]


Doubling the standard deduction is GOOD. And so is removing some non progressive deductions like SALT and property tax and capping the mortgage interest deduction at a lower level. That makes people like me, who can afford it, pay more, while other people who cannot, don’t. Positive! The disconnect happens when instead I’m funding reduced rates for those who earn more from capital. Much as I voted against them, I counted on the GOP to protect upper middle class interests... at a minimum. They are selling out Orange County, CA, which was their Reaganite base. What are they thinking???
posted by notyou at 10:31 PM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


this is going to cost a whole lot more than the CBO estimates once people start exploiting all the loopholes

How do you prevent people from selling services through their business, instead of being an employee? There wasn't much of an incentive before, but now there's a huge pass-through bonus. Why would any 6-figure employee stand for W-2 employment? Contract for services through my business, they'll say. I don't see how they'll prevent this.

I am not an expert, but I think the final vote is happening now.
posted by netowl at 10:39 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


They are selling out Orange County, CA, which was their Reaganite base. What are they thinking???

OC went for Hillary in 2016. The only non-insane explanation is that the GOP figures CA won't have any Republican Congressional Reps ever again anyway. Otherwise the "fuck 'em" strategy is a giant misstep in a state where almost every house sells for higher than the mortgage interest threshold.
posted by sideshow at 10:46 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Is the grad student tax still in it, or was that just a cruel distraction?
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:48 PM on December 1, 2017


McCain votes in favor
posted by XMLicious at 10:49 PM on December 1, 2017


Final vote—51 Yes, 49 No
posted by XMLicious at 10:50 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


The problem with everyone self incorporating is that when they kill Obamacare no one will be able to get health insurance. If you're not a W-2 you wouldn't qualify for an employer sponsored plan and no one will sell your corporation of one a group plan.
posted by Arbac at 10:51 PM on December 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


HR 1, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, as amended, passes 51-49 (Corker voting no)

(assuming nobody changes their vote before it closes)
posted by zachlipton at 10:52 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


How do you prevent people from selling services through their business, instead of being an employee? There wasn't much of an incentive before, but now there's a huge pass-through bonus. Why would any 6-figure employee stand for W-2 employment? Contract for services through my business, they'll say.

I freelance and sell my services through my business, and I'm gonna go ahead and say the hypothetical 6 figure employee won't give up the W-2 because of healthcare. Run your own biz plus plus deal with health insurance on your own, I don't think the tax incentives are that good at the level of income you're talking.

Who do you think is the primary market for Obamacare? The self employed.

I agree that doubling the standard deduction is a good thing. The rest of this mess is a garbage fire. Any hypothetical gains anyone of middle income makes in this is completely wiped out with the healthcare thing, among the many other problems.
posted by bradbane at 10:54 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


It has passed.

I think the only education tax in this is the endowment tax (limited to Title-4 accepting schools on amendment). It's possible this will be passed by the house-as-is, but reconciliation could change it.
posted by netowl at 10:54 PM on December 1, 2017


If you're not a W-2 you wouldn't qualify for an employer sponsored plan and no one will sell your corporation of one a group plan.

Eh, you take on a job doing 5 hours a week at minimum wage somewhere; that makes you an impoverished employee; your CEO profits go somewhere else.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:56 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


So I guess the next step is reconciliation with the House version?
posted by RedShrek at 11:05 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


And here's the problem right here. NYT and Washington Post push notifications describe this as a "big win" and "major victory" for Trump instead of leading with the impact of the bill on the 323 million of us who aren't Donald Trump. (BuzzFeed did better)
posted by zachlipton at 11:05 PM on December 1, 2017 [143 favorites]


It's possible this will be passed by the house-as-is, but reconciliation could change it.

I have a feeling that's exactly what's going to happen, so they can rush it to Trump's desk. He needs that victory, you know! Screw everyone else!
posted by SisterHavana at 11:06 PM on December 1, 2017


The problem with everyone self incorporating Is that it’s an Objectivist nightmare that fundamentally undermines long held understanding of essential human connection and cooperation. Sure, we could all decide to screw our neighbors and keep nine percent more from the taxman, but we’re still screwing our neighbors.

Ugh.
posted by notyou at 11:07 PM on December 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


Doubling the standard deduction is GOOD. And so is removing some non progressive deductions like SALT and property tax and capping the mortgage interest deduction at a lower level. That makes people like me, who can afford it, pay more

It's true that SALT is technically not a progressive deduction but removing it has other negative effects like punishing residents of states which have a tax rate sufficient to fund a social safety net (ie many blue states).

The mortgage interest tax deduction should be completely eliminated, not capped. But that's immaterial since the Senate bill doesn't cap it at a lower level. The House version did but I bet the House just swallows this pill whole and chokes it down.

So I guess the next step is reconciliation with the House version?

Conference committees are so 20th century. The House is gonna roll over like the lapdogs they are.
posted by Justinian at 11:08 PM on December 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


Let's all take a moment to mourn the real tragedy of this moment -- the official end of Ezra Klein's bromance with Paul Ryan:

“The hypocrisy is astounding”: this tax bill shows the GOP’s debt concerns were pure fraud
There is a long-running, almost metaphysical, argument about the GOP’s deficit hawkery. One school of thought holds that it has always been pure cynicism. Republicans passed the Bush tax cuts without offsets and paid for neither Medicare Part D nor the Iraq War. When they began decrying the deficit and debt during President Obama’s administration, under this theory, it was nothing but opportunistic political attacks, and it was obvious they would be abandoned as soon as Republicans regained power.

The response many Republicans gave was that the party had lost its way under George W. Bush, but it had recognized its mistakes and rediscovered its fiscally conservative soul. The Tea Party and its relentless campaign of primary challenges was proof the Republican Party had changed, and would stay changed.

The House and Senate passage of the GOP tax bills shows the cynics had it right. [...]

There is no framework under which these moves appear principled, no explanation under which the cynicism abates. Some Republicans have tried to argue that the tax bill will pay for itself through increased economic growth, but there is not a single economic analysis that agrees; the Joint Committee on Taxation, for instance, says the law will add a trillion dollars to the deficit even accounting for economic growth.

Perhaps that is why even Paul Ryan sounds embarrassed making these claims. “I’m telling you that’s what I believe will happen. I’m not going to tell you I’m sure,” he said.

Nihilism begets nihilism. Democrats feel like fools for taking Republican deficit concerns seriously, for trying to play by the rules and pay for their legislation and show they were acting in good faith.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:17 PM on December 1, 2017 [50 favorites]


Also note that, so far as I am aware, the increase in the standard deduction sunsets in under a decade at which point everyone gets a tax increase as the deductions which are eliminated stay gone and chained CPI takes effect (assuming thats in the final bill, who the fuck knows).

Taxes will go up for basically everyone who isn't able to take advantage of incorporating themselves AFAIK.
posted by Justinian at 11:19 PM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


Indivisible's Trump Tax Scam site has a "What Now?" page. Their money is on the House passing the Senate bill as-is.

Also, to second @tresdcomics: "What a month December 1st 2017 has been"
posted by Buntix at 11:24 PM on December 1, 2017 [29 favorites]


A Canadian here, just got in from work and reading the NYT's notice of this bill passing made me feel sick to my stomach.

And what the fuck NYT!? The comments are calling this crap out, which is something, but fuck, this whole balanced approach to coverage when one side are crypto fascist goat huffing sycophants only concerned with quite literally ruining the entire country for their master's benefit is nauseating.

At what point is it possible to declare the modern Republican Party a terrorist organization?
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 11:35 PM on December 1, 2017 [30 favorites]


Apologies if this isn't in the new spirit of the political megathreads, feel free to remove if it isn't. As a Canadian, I have a question. I read the Indivisible page about what's next for the tax bill, and I understood it all until the very end:

If Republicans go with Option A, it will mean the conference report on the Tax Scam takes a back seat to next week’s main event: finding a way to fund the government by the December 8 deadline. If they go with Option B, and the bill passes the House, it will mean Congress has finished its work on the Tax Scam.

Either way, our attention now needs to be on funding the government and holding Democrats to their commitment to secure inclusion of the DREAM Act in the funding bill. Democrats have promised for three months that they will use their leverage on the December spending bill to get the DREAM Act done. Now it’s time for them to deliver. Read more and find out how you can help Dreamers at www.dreamerpledge.org.

I absolutely agree that the DREAM Act would be an important thing to get passed. But the rest of that section implies that despite the bill not yet being law yet, there's essentially nothing substantive that can be done about its many horrible provisions, and that the best thing to do now is to try and get an otherwise unrelated piece of legislation through while the Republicans are busy cramming shit down everyone's throats. Am I reading that correctly? Is there really no recourse beyond taking up pitchforks and starting riots? Or is there some dimension I'm missing here?
posted by chrominance at 11:43 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


If Republicans, who control a majority in both houses of Congress and hold the Presidency, can hold together those majorities to vote for the tax bill there is indeed nothing that can be done beyond insurrection. How could there be? The time something could have been done was Nov 8 2016. (and previous elections.)
posted by Justinian at 11:53 PM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


The House could still fuck it up, but they won't.

There are some kinds of legislation that could be fought with a lawsuit (like a trans bathroom law) or slow-rolled by an executive that doesn't want to enact it (like those sanctions...) but tax law is pretty straightforward. They pass it, it's law.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 12:01 AM on December 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


What can still be done is massive public outcry. As significant as this feels to us, even a lot of fairly tuned-in Americans haven't really heard the details of what the Republicans are doing over the din of Twitter and the Russia news. It might not stop this embarrassment from getting signed into law, but loud and repeated shaming of everyone involved will help voters remember who authored this debacle next election cycle.

Otherwise, logistically, yeah, the thing to do is to move on to the next winnable fight. They've got all the cards, and it's a wonder this is all they've been able to push through so far. This is a loss for us, and it won't be the last.
posted by contraption at 12:03 AM on December 2, 2017 [27 favorites]


All this week I've been thinking back to my sophomore year in college. I didn't drink (at all) before leaving home, and not much through freshman year, then started dabbling with all of the stupid mistakes and painful learnings that went along with it.

After one extremely-poorly managed night of "fun!" drinking games, my saintly roommate took care of me in the bathroom, then steered me back down the hallway to our shared (triple) room. As we re-entered, I pointed, aghast and said, "Oh, man... who puked on Brian's futon?!"

My roommate gently reminded me, "Well, that's YOUR puke, and that's YOUR FUTON!"

We can never let the GOP live this tax-code travesty down. First, they'll pretend that everything's awesome! No, of course no one puked on the futon, that would be ridiculous. They'll never help to clean it up, because that would be admitting puke-on-futon. Eventually, they will blame Democrats for puking on the futon.

Seriously, fuck these jokers forever for treating our country, and 300 million people, like a disposable cheap-ass futon they can ruin and throw away for their sophomoric, short-sighted benefit. (I did clean that puke up, and arguably learned my lesson... although now it's late, I'm pissed off and I'm feeling angry enough to wreck a futon tonight for the first time in 25 years.) We need to relentlessly hound every single one of them out. The assholes, sure, and the 'principled' ones that were just as craven in the end.
posted by rodeoclown at 12:16 AM on December 2, 2017 [44 favorites]


And here's the problem right here. NYT and Washington Post push notifications describe this as a "big win" and "major victory" for Trump instead of leading with the impact of the bill on the 323 million of us who aren't Donald Trump. (BuzzFeed did better)
God yeah, why does American media report on this kind of thing like we're talking about football? This isn't a game. This thing is real and it has real consequences for you and me.
posted by peacheater at 12:44 AM on December 2, 2017 [61 favorites]


Batshit crazy UK Tory MP from the 18th century, Jacob Rees-Mogg, and Brexit arch-demagogue Nigel Farage met Steven Bannon in private meetings in London. (Guardian)

The article is full of understatements. Like calling the extremist radicalisation publication Breitbart a "rightwing news website", and Rees-Mogg's following "champion[s] rightwing ideas, grassroots activism and shaking up the conservative establishment."

Rees-Mogg is the shaven, bespectacled, and irony-troll face of Dark Enlightenment, and he is the current forerunner in the polls for the next Tory leader.
posted by runcifex at 12:54 AM on December 2, 2017 [21 favorites]


Why shouldn't an individual be able to deduct their rent from their taxable income, like a company can deduct its rent via the concept of "profit"?

If my landlord suddenly doesn't charge me rent, that's income on which I am taxed. (Income being anything of value you receive) If a homeowner chooses not to charge themselves rent, they are not taxed on the imputed rent, despite receiving a very real thing of value.
posted by wierdo at 12:58 AM on December 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


no one will sell your corporation of one a group plan.

Oh, the local Chamber of Commerce was more than happy to let me join their "group" years ago. Sure, it was 14k/year to cover my family, but I expect more of this in the future.

I've had a sole-prop LLC going for over a decade to handle tax collection and remittance for my solo-work, but if this is the future, than I guess we sell the house to the LLC for a dollar or something. I dunno. I'll have to discuss this with my CPA.
posted by mikelieman at 1:14 AM on December 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Since the last one closed, here's new MetaTalk post for the (emotional, incoherent, or otherwise outside of the new politics thread guidelines linked above) expressions that are better suited to such a place.
posted by monopas at 1:46 AM on December 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


Why the UN is investigating extreme poverty … in America, the world's richest nation
posted by mumimor at 1:57 AM on December 2, 2017 [37 favorites]


Assuming this travesty passes the house, when would it go into effect?
posted by medusa at 4:14 AM on December 2, 2017


Conference committees are so 20th century. The House is gonna roll over like the lapdogs they are.

The House has a vote scheduled for Monday to send the bill to conference committee. That doesn't mean the House won't mostly capitulate to the Senate's version, but it looks like there will be a conference.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 4:41 AM on December 2, 2017


I think and I guess hope that Collins and Murkowski are going to have difficult lives from here on out (I'd include McCain but I assume medical stuff is going to keep him sequestered). It's one thing to be an evil fuck like Toomey; his being an incredibly evil fuck with this religious school shit is like, well yeah, what do you expect, fucking Toomey.

But with Collins and Murkowski and McCain, it feels like a terrible betrayal. We'd celebrated their earlier efforts to block shit; now they will become a focus of disappointment. I'd not been on board before the idea that moderate Republics who hold national office don't exist; now I am. I am board with the idea that they are all driven by an ideology that is at odds with reality.

All of them should and will be held accountable for their bad acts, and I hope they enjoyed their moment of triumph last night, because in the coming years, they are going to pay a very large price for it.
posted by angrycat at 4:41 AM on December 2, 2017 [29 favorites]


Assuming this travesty passes the house, when would it go into effect?

Some provisions would take effect immediately, but most of the big changes would go into effect for the 2018 tax year.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 4:43 AM on December 2, 2017


If passed, when would the GOP tax plan take effect? [CBS, Nov 6th] Suggests that most would be from 1st Jan 2018, and if it isn't signed into law before then it would be made retroactive to that date.
posted by Buntix at 4:49 AM on December 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


So Americans' taxes are going to radically change in less than a month. It will be confusing. How do I even calculate my withholding?
posted by medusa at 4:52 AM on December 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Can someone convince trump that vetoing this thing would be a "win"?
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:55 AM on December 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


How do I even calculate my withholding?

You can't. And there isn't enough Treasury/IRS staff to issue regs and new forms and publications in time. Some of the provisions are retroactive to Jan 1 2017 also. Oh and tax filing season starts in like 6 weeks.

Don't miss that a major part of this legislation -- coupled with a failure to appropriate sufficient funds to the IRS -- is making it so that the laws that do impose tax on the wealthy are not, in practice, enforced or enforceable.

I'm so angry right now. We have to stop this bill in conference. I don't know how to make that happen, but we have to. We can't allow them to win this one.
posted by melissasaurus at 5:03 AM on December 2, 2017 [104 favorites]


My acupuncturist, who is really tuned into all things Russia, turned to me yesterday and said beamingly, "It's a great day, isn't it." And she said that she was glad to see me because most of her other clients wouldn't be as excited. And I was like 'actually things are shit, and my main complaint today is my mood' and she took my pulses and looked at my tongue and was like 'jeez yeah, I see.'

I am going to follow The Whelk's example and work with the DSA here in Philly. Between that and ADAPT, I at least have places to channel my rage.
posted by angrycat at 5:14 AM on December 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


the dems need to announce they will be abstaining from the upcoming shutdown vote unless this madness is changed

let them own ALL of it - the republicans have the votes to avoid government shutdown - if they can't get themselves together the democrats should not come to their rescue

if the democrats aren't willing to do this, they aren't going to get anything done

it's time to exact a price for bipartisan willingness to keep the government running, and no, DACA is not enough
posted by pyramid termite at 5:21 AM on December 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


Mod note: Folks, let's not continue with further "how-to" and strategic tax filing stuff here, please. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:22 AM on December 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Lol. I'm just reading through the bill and its like there is a specific carve-out to make sure high income families with a higher propensity to vote.and donate democratic don't get to participate in the give away.
posted by JPD at 5:33 AM on December 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


@NickHanauer (VC)
1) I wanted to make just one big point about this tax fight. I am profoundly frustrated - not by the Republicans in congress trying to fleece the middle class - that's what they were sent by their donors to do. I am frustrated by the pundit class that is just amazed, AMAZED!
2) Just AMAZED that the GOP doesn't seem to understand that this tax bill isn't benefitting the middle class, won't create growth, will not pay for itself. Trickle down economics doesn't work because its claims are true. It works because its claims are plausible....
3) And that plausibility creates deniability. Which means simple stealing can be dressed up as a difference in perspective on economics. The GOP never cared about actual growth. Or the debt. All they care about is making their rich donors richer. This plan accomplishes that.
4) What is so dispiriting is the profound silliness and naivete of the pundit class who actually believed these guys cared about this shit. The only real center of gravity for GOP politics is the donor class and their narrow short term financial interests.

---

And speaking of biased, clueless pundits...

@MikeGrunwald (Politico)
Here are some stories about how toxic Obama was at 44% approval:
Boston Globe: Democrats running for office ditch Obama ties
TIME: Vulnerable Democrats Run Away From Obama
WaPo: Can Democrats hold the Senate by running away from Obama — and their own records?
Guardian: Democrats have deserted him. The post-Obama era has begun
PS: Trump just hit 34%.

---

Yep, Trump is near his all-time low: 34 approve - 60 disapprove. He's only been lower once at 33%. He's dropped from -17 net (38-55) to -26 in the last 3 days. And this is before Flynn.
posted by chris24 at 5:35 AM on December 2, 2017 [55 favorites]


Calling my Senator, Susan Collins, to say Shame on you. A trillion dollar gift to the wealthiest fuckers on the planet.
posted by theora55 at 6:02 AM on December 2, 2017 [41 favorites]


> I am board with the idea that they are all driven by an ideology that is at odds with reality.
All ideologies are at odds with reality. That's what ideologies are for.

It's just that our reality is different from their reality.
posted by runcifex at 6:02 AM on December 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


A trillion dollar gift* to the wealthiest fuckers on the planet.

*paid for with borrowed money
posted by baltimoretim at 6:12 AM on December 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Bruce Bartlett:
Republicans are already giggling with happiness at the thought of a Democratic Congress and president undoing their handiwork. The right wing attacks on them for massively raising taxes will write themselves, put the GOP back in power at the next presidential election. I expect that some Democrats are thinking they will regain control of Congress next year and the White House in 2020 because of the POS tax bill. Maybe, but they will be forced to spend all of their political capital cleaning up the fiscal mess with highly unpopular actions. The entire progressive agenda will be off the table for a generation insofar as it involves spending a dime for anything. The money won't be there. Democrats will have to do all they can just to keep Social Security from being privatized and Medicare turned into a block grant. Republicans will be very happy when Democrats try to reverse the tax cut. They will portray it as a massive tax increase and will simply give the GOP another reason to cut taxes again when they are back in power. It's Lucy and the football forever. Republicans are perfectly willing to accept a temporary loss because their agenda of downsizing government is now set in concrete. Democrats will complete it when they cut spending because of the deficit.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:17 AM on December 2, 2017 [51 favorites]


This is what I just faxed Burr and Tillis. I am So. Fucking. Mad.
_______________________
SHAME ON YOU.

You just voted to raise my taxes, increase my premiums, and leave 13 million more people uninsured.

You couldn't even do it in the light of day, you cowards.

This bill YOU voted for last night will explode the deficit by over $1 TRILLION.

DO NOT TELL ME THE LIE THAT MY TAXES WILL BE CUT. I know that "provision" will sunset, and only the wealthiest will reap the rewards of this unconscionable UNAMERICAN bill at the expense of women, children, senior citizens, immigrants, small businesses and poor people.

I am a voter who is not alone in watching your every move. We are angry, betrayed and have not forgotten that YOU work for us. Not for yourself, your business buddies, dark money orgs or even Trump himself. YOU work for YOUR constituents.

WE WILL REMEMBER YOUR RECORD.

SHAME ON YOU.
---------------------------
posted by yoga at 6:18 AM on December 2, 2017 [151 favorites]


This is who there are and definitely who they're going to be.

@AdamHSays
He resigned as the president of the College Republicans at Washington State after he was spotted at a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville.

He was just re-elected to lead the chapter:

Spotted at a White-Power Rally, but Still Popular With Campus Republicans
posted by chris24 at 6:24 AM on December 2, 2017 [44 favorites]


Remember when we respected Murkowski?

Repealing the individual mandate will likely collapse the entire Alaska health care marketplace.
posted by chris24 at 6:38 AM on December 2, 2017 [52 favorites]


I have to say that I disagree with Bruce Bartlett's tweet. In a conventional political climate he might be right. But look at what happened in Kansas. Something like that will happen at the national level, and we can force the Democrats to listen to us.

The base is getting much better at that now. We can't allow ourselves to be on the defensive.

Republicans have made that job way easier for us given the callousness of the bill and whom it favors. There was no constituency for this bill and they know it.
posted by orangutan at 6:42 AM on December 2, 2017 [19 favorites]


We can't just wait for elections to fix this. We can't just say "oh, well, they'll lose in 2018, and then we can reverse this in 2019" -- (a) even if we get a majority, there's little to no chance it will be veto-proof, and (b) really bad stuff will happen between now and ~2020 when a new bill could actually be drafted and passed and made effective. We have to stop it before it becomes law.

Call your senators, and reps, and governor, and state and local representatives -- light up the phones, make them come in to full voicemails and inboxes on Monday and every day thereafter. And not just the representatives - call your local parties, the national parties, your alma mater, the largest businesses in your area, the local hospital, chamber of commerce, everyone. Monday morning needs to be a fucking reckoning in order for us to have a chance at stopping this.

My message for Dems so far this morning has been along the lines of "shut it down; shut it all down." My message for Rs has been along the lines of "I have a very particular set of skills [tax policy!]. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you."
posted by melissasaurus at 6:57 AM on December 2, 2017 [61 favorites]


> Maybe, but they will be forced to spend all of their political capital cleaning up the fiscal mess with highly unpopular actions.

My crystal ball says taxing the everloving shit out of the 1% to pay for the mess the GOP made last night will be wildly popular and will not be a drain, but rather a previously untapped source of political capital.
posted by klarck at 6:59 AM on December 2, 2017 [101 favorites]


The dotcom recession of 2001 was a very public matter, because by then the majority of employers in the sector were post-IPO, and the layoffs were instantly a public matter.

This time around, companies purposely avoid the IPO, and instead spend years as private firms, with shares trading over tables of Chinese food around Silicon Valley. So it's not as easy to tell. But my Facebook feed and email inbox indicate that pink slip season has begun. Anyone else seeing this?
posted by ocschwar at 7:03 AM on December 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


My crystal ball says taxing the everloving shit out of the 1% to pay for the mess the GOP made last night will be wildly popular and will not be a drain, but rather a previously untapped source of political capital.

I'd say that but if there's one thing that remains constant it's that red blooded Americans will see an attack on the 1% as an attack on themselves and that the American electorate has the attention span of a goldfish.
posted by Talez at 7:06 AM on December 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


I am going to be faxing my rep, John Katko - R, and I know people read his messages and listen to his voice mail because he reported a death threat to him and his family left on his service to the Capitol Police. It was over net neutrality.
posted by xyzzy at 7:08 AM on December 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


My crystal ball says taxing the everloving shit out of the 1% to pay for the mess the GOP made last night will be wildly popular and will not be a drain, but rather a previously untapped source of political capital.

Yep, the first thing Dems do in 2020 if they take the presidency and Congress better be raising the tax rate on income over $500K to 50%. Via reconciliation and written on a fucking napkin.
posted by chris24 at 7:08 AM on December 2, 2017 [35 favorites]


Important Differences Between the House and Senate Tax Reform Bills Heading into Conference [Tax Foundation]
posted by melissasaurus at 7:09 AM on December 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


Speaking of taking back Congress by 2020...

New WaPo poll of Alabama:

Doug Jones: 50
Roy Moore: 47

Which is a change from recent polls showing Moore with a small lead. But don't think this is necessarily an outlier.

@HotlineJosh (National Journal)
WaPo poll of #ALSEN: Jones 50, Moore 47. Awfully consistent with the internals I've been hearing about.
posted by chris24 at 7:14 AM on December 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


My crystal ball says taxing the everloving shit out of the 1% to pay for the mess the GOP made last night will be wildly popular and will not be a drain, but rather a previously untapped source of political capital.

It will not.

Republicans will trumpet the message, as they always do, that Trickle-Down Economics Always Works And If It Didn't Work That's Because It Didn't Go Far Enough And We Need More Of It.

The right-wing media, whose salaries depend on making people believe that, will howl that from every orifice. And whether it's from the core message itself, or its sister message that Taxes Are Always Bad, or fear that someone they hate might get a break or a decent meal, or belief that they too are in the People Whom Trickle-Down Benefits class and they'll start seeing those benefits Any Time Now, or because their personal taxes went down by $25 in the first year and therefore Yes This Bill Helps Everyone, or just raw tribalism, the same people will vote accordingly.
posted by delfin at 7:15 AM on December 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


It will not.

There is already an almost unprecedented D advantage in the generic House ballot. Trump is at an unprecedented approval low. We just cleaned up in VA and across the country. Engagement and activism and candidacies are at remarkable if not all-time highs. And this is before 13 million lose insurance and 30-50% of people get a tax increase. And with an inherited economy that will not last forever.

So fuck what Rs think. They're not going to be making the decisions if we do our job, get/keep people registered and voting, and take back control. And now that Rs have proven they don't care about process, they don't care about deficits, we don't have to appease them. And we vote out any D who tries to.
posted by chris24 at 7:21 AM on December 2, 2017 [97 favorites]


And we take the Federalist Society plan to expand the judiciary and use it to do it for us. "Hey, it was your idea." When McConnell stole the SC seat, Rs constantly ranted about the Biden rule which was a bullshit misleading argument that was never seriously contemplated much less implemented. Well guess what. Two can play that game.
posted by chris24 at 7:29 AM on December 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


I called Schumer's office yesterday and said that I understood he couldn't stop the tax bill from passing, but that I was expecting him to lead the Dems in campaigning on a platform of "we're raising taxes on corporations and the 1% to invest in America, we're coming for your fucking guns, and abortions are going to be accessible to all women." I said I want, and we all need, champions fighting to put the train back on the rails, or there was no point in voting for Democrats.

I strongly feel this is not the time for moderation of compromise. I want a fucking flag waving over the barricades.
posted by prefpara at 7:34 AM on December 2, 2017 [76 favorites]


> And whether it's from the core message..., or its sister message ..., or fear ..., or belief ..., or because ..., or just raw ...

Understood. But those are the tired old legs supporting the conservative viewpoint since Reagan - and we all knew they wouldn't stand the test of time. You can only pee down someone's leg and tell them it's raining for so long before they figure it out. I think that time has come.
posted by klarck at 7:36 AM on December 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Everybody was constantly lying about Russia, but don't worry, that's just because we're stupid liars, not colluders.

@CNNPolitics
President Trump says he is not concerned about what Michael Flynn might tell the special counsel, saying "there has been absolutely no collusion"

VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 7:39 AM on December 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


chris24: "Yep, the first thing Dems do in 2020 if they take the presidency and Congress better be raising the tax rate on income over $500K to 50%. Via reconciliation and written on a fucking napkin."

They need to rise the taxes on capital gains and inheritance more than on income though they should do that too. As the bottom end is already at zero, reducing the GINI spread by aggressively clawing back the top end is the only real hope for a continuing functional society for the middle class (or the existence of a middle class at all for that matter).
posted by Mitheral at 7:42 AM on December 2, 2017 [19 favorites]


By the way, in that WaPo Alabama poll where Jones leads by 3? Among white evangelicals the pedophile leads by 59. (78-19)
posted by chris24 at 7:42 AM on December 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


Also let's not forget how profoundly unpopular this tax bill is. And it will only become more unpopular as people learn more about it. I don't think it's inevitable that we're just stuck with it now and can never pursue a progressive agenda.
posted by prefpara at 7:43 AM on December 2, 2017 [23 favorites]


I think the question is if the damage will be irrevocable before said progressive agenda can be pursued.
posted by flatluigi at 7:47 AM on December 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


red blooded Americans will see an attack on the 1% as an attack on themselves

Despite arguably being vastly more aware of it and even running (not owning, running) most of the levers of public conversation, the Democratic-left is incredibly inept at messaging. That has to change, like, 20 years ago. You can see it coming a mile away - Better Jobs! Sensible Health Planning! DUKAKIS / KERRY 2020.

What is the DSA message / media strategy anyway? Out of curiosity.
posted by petebest at 7:54 AM on December 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


I feel as though there has to be a breaking point moment where we figure out the right collective action to take, to really punish the cadre of people that fund this ideology, and where everyone actually does something. I don't know if it's a strike, or a boycott, or something new... But the Kochs of the world are going to do this until they're scared of us.
posted by condour75 at 7:57 AM on December 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Honestly, as important as getting people to vote is making the press as scared of us as they are of the right.

@EricBoehlert
OMFG!! Ed O'Keefe from WP told CBS News re: insane un-democratic tax vote last night, "this is how legislating works." are U effing kidding me? VIDEO
- why is DC press so obsessed w/ normalizing GOP insanity?? (hint: look at who's getting the tax cuts.)
- no public hearings, no expert testimony, bills released hours before vote, final bills w/ scribbled instructions in the column..."this is how legislating works" is a disgusting lie
- message from DC media: not much to see here. GOP passed a tax bill, move along. this is EXACTLY the narrative GOP needs/wants right now
posted by chris24 at 7:58 AM on December 2, 2017 [78 favorites]


There is already an almost unprecedented D advantage in the generic House ballot. Trump is at an unprecedented approval low. We just cleaned up in VA and across the country. Engagement and activism and candidacies are at remarkable if not all-time highs.

I agree, and it's true that some polls have the Democrats winning the Congressional popular vote by 9 points, but that only translates into 51% of the seats. Even if voters massively break for Democrats, gerrymandering has all but guaranteed that the Democrats will not get a veto-proof majority in the House. Plus, the Democrats controlling the House is enough to stop the GOP from doing more of this shit, but not enough for them to undo any of it.
posted by Automocar at 7:58 AM on December 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


chris24: "message from DC media: not much to see here. GOP passed a tax bill, move along. this is EXACTLY the narrative GOP needs/wants right now" – this message is being pushed because many of the same people who control the GOP who passed the bill presumably also control the people who spread the message. They're not stupid: they know they have to control the message, not just get the legislation passed.
posted by StrawberryPie at 8:07 AM on December 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Haha. Never trust this fucker. The hardline on 20%, demanded by Trump, and with multiple votes rejected to raise it a tiny bit to help in other areas? Gone now that everyone is on record voting for it.

@JenniferJJacobs (Bloomberg)
TRUMP ON CORPORATE TAX RATE: “It could be 22 when it comes out,” down from 35%.

@seungminkim (Politico)
Retweeted Jennifer Jacobs
The heads of Susan Collins, Marco Rubio, Mike Lee, other senators who called for bumping up the corporate rate, just exploded
posted by chris24 at 8:08 AM on December 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


Charlottesville review: Faulty planning, passive police lead to disastrous results

The story has it all - officers told not to intervene; a police chief who tried to both hide and manufacture evidence; and a "both sides" response from the state police. Just in case you need something else to enrage you this morning.
posted by nubs at 8:09 AM on December 2, 2017 [43 favorites]


But look at what happened in Kansas.

I get where you're going with this, but at this point, nobody on the left should be using Kansas as an example for anything. Yes, the state legislature voted to increase taxes. A little. They're still not where they were previous to the Brownback administration. The schools are still massively underfunded. And worst of all: at this point, there's no meaningful challenger on the left for the Governor's seat - 11 months out, it's Chris Kobach's race to lose.

The comparable situation is this: after 2018, Trump is ousted, and Pence takes his seat. The tax plan has made the country so broke that the left and the right pass a minimal tax increase over Pence's veto. There's some hope. And then Steve Bannon runs for, and wins, the presidency. That's the path Kansas is headed down right now.

Anyway, my point is this: the long game is important. No individual win will save us. It's going to take years of unrelenting work to begin to repair the damage these con artists are doing to the country.
posted by god hates math at 8:15 AM on December 2, 2017 [21 favorites]


Ed O'Keefe from WP told CBS News re: insane un-democratic tax vote last night, "this is how legislating works."

Ed O'Keefe is 34 (born in Year Three of Our Gipper), and is gushingly proud to engage in this level of journalistic malpractice for The Washington Postals. He should be fired.

Other recent stories from Ed include multiple versions of "Republicans plan to avert government shutdown, hurrah" and in-depth analyses of why Franken and Corbyn are just the worst.
posted by petebest at 8:16 AM on December 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


@jljacobson (EIC - Rewire)
Every single journalist, every single media outlet that has over past 10 years or more allowed @GOP to lie through their teeth in interviews and on camera, and presented it as a "point of view" is responsible for what is happening in this country right now. every single one 1/
- Every single journalist and media outlet that built up @GOP and @SenateMajLdr and called @SpeakerRyan a "wonder boy" is at fault for where we are now. Every single on of those who built up @realDonaldTrump for ratings and money over 30 years is at fault. 2/
- From @MarkHalperin to @MLauer to all the rest of you and you know who you are who sought to provide "balance" by inviting liars on shows and into interviews and falling to challenge them and then turned around and grilled Dems as though they were equal... you are at fault. 3/
- Every single outlet from @NPR to @ @MSNBC to @CNN who brought on sycophants, liars, & conspiracy theorists such as @BreitbartNews, @HughHewitt, @BritHume as though they were honest brokers... you are at fault. Because slowly over time you enabled fascism for your own benefit. 4/
- And now you can have @SenateMajLdr get on radio and say that there were "many hearings and markups on this bill....". Where? When? Are you asking him? Are you challenging that? Have you asked him to name ONE??? One hearing? No... you just give him a mike. It's disgusting. 5/
- And today's @nytimes headline? "big Win for Trump." Really? Really @Nytime? How about "Tax Scam Passes Amidst Chaos and False Claims" ?? that would be an accurate headline. But ... @deanbaquet is afraid to actually run a newspaper. He'd rather do soft-reporting Nazi stories. 6/
- Journalism is supposed to be about speaking truth to power, informing people, challenging power. But journalists have become so embedded in the power structure, they are so co-opted and so complicit at this point, it's no wonder we are here. 7/7/
posted by chris24 at 8:21 AM on December 2, 2017 [160 favorites]


read the fucking major tax bill they're voting on includes Senator John "Concerns About The Process" McCain.

Don't forget that McCain was not against the health bill because it was taking away from the poor but because it was NOT taking away ENOUGH.
posted by sammyo at 8:37 AM on December 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


Mod note: Good morning friends - we've had a period of looser reaction after today's stupid terrible thing, and this afternoon I'm going to tighten the dial back up just a bit, in terms of having less short-reaction stuff and less very general "we must be pessimistic" vs "we can be optimistic" stuff. (All of which are fine things to want, again nobody's doing anything wrong, but see this Metatalk thread about changing the norms in the megathreads.) There's this morning's freshly posted WTF thread, for venting emotional reactions. And always Mefi Chat for short or general chitchat that's maybe borderline for this thread, or just to be in a room with people.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:53 AM on December 2, 2017 [20 favorites]


Understood. But those are the tired old legs supporting the conservative viewpoint since Reagan - and we all knew they wouldn't stand the test of time. You can only pee down someone's leg and tell them it's raining for so long before they figure it out. I think that time has come.

When the Republicans don't have the Presidency, both houses of Congress, control of a majority of governorships and state legislatures, control over the district maps so as to rig House elections and a public so brainwashed that one state is likely to vote a child molester in over a Democrat, I'll be more hopeful that the Reagan Delusion is finally ending.

Generic House ballots are great if we can run generic Democrats against generic Republicans in generic places. But to take the House back and take state houses we need to win in a lot of unlikely races. We need a clear, convincing and loud message that resonates from the whole party. We need lots of candidates that inspire enthusiasm and stand for things proudly. We need candidates that are not scared of corporate shadows and will say out loud that You Are Being Screwed.

Much of which is in progress, however incrementally. But I'll believe that enough of it is happening when I see it.
posted by delfin at 9:06 AM on December 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


Steven Pearlstein: The Bryce Harper Tax Relief Act of 2017
So you add it all up and Harper would have an annual income of $60 million split evenly between salary and royalties. [...] As for the $30 million in annual royalty income, he’d probably do something like sell the intellectual property that generates the royalties each year to a partnership that also operates another business suitable for a professional athlete, such as a chain of fitness clubs. As a result of the sale, he would pay a 30 percent state and federal capital gains tax, and then use the money from the sale of the royalty income to buy an ownership stake in that very same partnership that had bought the rights.

In other words, he sells the stream of royalties from his intellectual property to a partnership in which he himself then becomes a partner. The partnership, in turn, allocates to Harper each year his pro rata share of its profit, which for tax purposes flows through to his personal income. Under the Republican bill, this partnership income would be taxed at an effective rate of 31 percent, for federal and Virginia. [...]

This little exercise is just one example of the ways that athletes, rock stars and inventors could game the tax code that the Republicans want to put in place, by turning some of Harper’s salary into capital gains (that’s the royalty gambit) and then running those royalties through a tax-advantaged “small business partnership” to avoid paying a corporate profits tax. [...]

Not unmindful of this problem, Republicans have tried to include what they call a set of “guardrails” to limit such games-playing, but because they have rushed the bill through the legislative process, tax experts warn of the high risk that those guardrails won’t prove effective. Add to that the deep cuts Republicans have been making in the IRS budget and you can be fairly confident that very few of these clever tax-avoidance schemes would be caught by the IRS and successfully challenged. And even if they were to be, the understaffed agency would likely settle for a partial recovery of lost revenue.

A badly needed tax cut for all those plumbers and forklift drivers and coal miners? Not exactly.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:10 AM on December 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


I honestly feel bad for Barry Black. To have to open that shitshow yesterday with a prayer. I can think of nothing more blasphemous than what those "Christians" did yesterday.
posted by Talez at 9:27 AM on December 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Well, this was the impetus I needed to finally join the DSA. I trust them far more than the Democrats to actually voice a principled opposition to this kind of catastrophic legislation. And they keep on picking up offices and pulling the Democratic party to the left. The introductory membership dues are only $45. Next step, I really need to finally carve out some time to get involved and go to some meetings.
posted by One Second Before Awakening at 9:27 AM on December 2, 2017 [27 favorites]


Donny can't help himself. Sure, weigh in on an ongoing investigation. So you're saying you knew he lied to the FBI and didn't fire him for three weeks?

@realDonaldTrump
I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!
posted by chris24 at 9:28 AM on December 2, 2017 [34 favorites]


Looks like the DOJ or White House is leaking personal dirt about the Special Counsel's investigation, Two senior FBI officials on Clinton, Trump probes exchanged politically charged texts disparaging Trump (WaPo):
The former top FBI official assigned to Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s probe of Russian interference in the 2016 election was taken off that job this summer after his bosses discovered he and another member of Mueller’s team had exchanged politically charged texts disparaging President Trump and supportive of Hillary Clinton, according to multiple people familiar with the matter.

Peter Strzok, as deputy head of counter-intelligence at the FBI, was a key player in the investigation into Clinton’s use of a private email server to do government work as Secretary of State, as well as the probe into possible coordination between the Trump campaign and Russia in the 2016 election.

During the Clinton investigation, Strzok was involved in a romantic relationship with FBI lawyer Lisa Page, who worked for Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, according to the people familiar with the matter, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.
posted by peeedro at 9:31 AM on December 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!

Also, if he knew that Flynn lied to the FBI, asking the FBI/Comey to drop the case on Flynn is obstruction. Thanks Donny.
posted by chris24 at 9:35 AM on December 2, 2017 [89 favorites]


What is the DSA message / media strategy anyway? Out of curiosity.

I joined recently, and as far as I can tell it's not too well defined at the national level. DSA has grown very rapidly in the last year and still seems to be figuring out what to do with the massive influx of new members and money. The good news is that everyone I've talked to is very receptive to suggestions, so if you've got good ideas it's a great opportunity to get them heard and acted on.
posted by contraption at 9:40 AM on December 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


I’m just really confused by this. I thought the parliamentarian nixed this? Are they just running over the parliamentarians? If so, is that a challengeable possibility?
posted by corb at 9:42 AM on December 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


> I’m just really confused by this. I thought the parliamentarian nixed this? Are they just running over the parliamentarians? If so, is that a challengeable possibility?

Gessen's Rule #3: Institutions will not save you.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:45 AM on December 2, 2017 [23 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!

I will eat my socks if Donald Trump actually wrote that. It's way to well-crafted and talking-point-ready. Not enough RANDOM capital LETTERS.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:45 AM on December 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


And here's the problem right here. NYT and Washington Post push notifications describe this as a "big win" and "major victory" for Trump instead of leading with the impact of the bill on the 323 million of us who aren't Donald Trump.

That's how indoctrinated we are. Sports news is about contracts, not play. Movies are talked about in terms of box office. Since I don't invest in movie companies I'm not sure why I'm supposed to give a shit about that. Substance is rarely discussed in the media anymore, it's all wins, losses, and business.
posted by bongo_x at 9:46 AM on December 2, 2017 [68 favorites]


Looks like the DOJ or White House is leaking personal dirt about the Special Counsel's investigation, Two senior FBI officials on Clinton, Trump probes exchanged politically charged texts disparaging Trump (WaPo):

Is "We found information that could lead to accusations of bias in our investigation so we preemptively fired the guy" supposed to be a bad thing?
posted by Anonymous at 9:47 AM on December 2, 2017


I’m just really confused by this. I thought the parliamentarian nixed this? Are they just running over the parliamentarians? If so, is that a challengeable possibility?

The parliamentarian only rejected one provision of the bill -- the provision to add a trigger cancelling some of the tax cuts if deficits turned out to be higher than projected. So they removed that one provision and passed the rest of the bill without the trigger -- deficits be damned.
posted by JackFlash at 9:53 AM on December 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


...I don't think there's any other way to read that tweet other than he's admitting to obstruction of justice. Control of Trump's twitter account just became an issue, because if that's a Scavino authored tweet, it complicates proving Trump's state of mind, vs Scavino posting as Trump on twitter.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:55 AM on December 2, 2017 [22 favorites]


And here's the problem right here. NYT and Washington Post push notifications describe this as a "big win" and "major victory" for Trump instead of leading with the impact of the bill on the 323 million of us who aren't Donald Trump.

That's news journalism. It is a big win for those who wanted it to happen. That's a fact that happened. The consequences of this have not happened yet. You write about those in analysis or opinion pieces.

Of course, it's not as cut and dried as that, but that's the basic structure. You can and should be critical of the overall mix of a journal's editorial output, you can and should be critical of what facts are reported and how, and what analyses and opinion pieces are offered. But news must have a basic adherence to what has actually happened over what happens next.
posted by Devonian at 9:57 AM on December 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


But news must have a basic adherence to what has actually happened over what happens next.

Well, I have no hesitation in saying "That's absolute bullshit."

How can you report any event without considering the consequences of that event?
posted by JackFlash at 10:02 AM on December 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


"Big Win for Trump" and "Republican Congress Passes Tax Cuts Without Hearings, Experts Say Will Not Create Growth" are both accurate descriptions of the news event, and deliberate choices are consistently made to run the first, and not the second.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:02 AM on December 2, 2017 [85 favorites]


> Ezra Klein, "The case for normalizing impeachment"

Charles Pierce: We Can't 'Normalize' Impeachment, Even if the president is a few bulbs short of a chandelier and losing more all the time.
posted by homunculus at 10:04 AM on December 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Rebecca Solnit, Guardian, with equal parts of encouragement and exhortation: The 11 biggest victories against Trump by the resistance
This list of our successes and their defeats does not mean you can sit back in the sunshine and trust that it will all turn out in the end. It means that resistance – active, engaged, informed, creative, dedicated, energetic resistance – works, and we need lots more of it.

It’s too soon for despair, though not for grief. Grief and hope can coexist: grief for who and what has already been harmed, hope for preventing more harm. Remembering what we have accomplished and how ferociously engaged people are in this moment is knowing that the outcomes of many pending conflicts are entirely up in the air, and that we are powerful enough to determine some of them. That power of civil society has hardly yet been exercised.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:04 AM on December 2, 2017 [32 favorites]


I will eat my socks if Donald Trump actually wrote that. It's way to well-crafted and talking-point-ready. Not enough RANDOM capital LETTERS.

I don't know who wrote it, but it's not remotely well-crafted. It's an acknowledgement that he knew Flynn lied to the FBI when he fired him. That's an admission he knew or should have known that Flynn committed a crime. Then he asked Comey to end the investigation into Flynn. That admission just made obstruction charges one step easier to prove.

That's news journalism. It is a big win for those who wanted it to happen. That's a fact that happened. The consequences of this have not happened yet. You write about those in analysis or opinion pieces.

I strongly disagree. It's horse race journalism, coverage that puts political winners and losers ahead of policy. Few things could be more important to every single American who receives push notifications from the NYT and the Post than their personal finances and ability to get health insurance. Congress made major changes to both; this isn't some abstract issue—it's very directly about things that will happen to you. Their reporters have done some great work to help people understand it, but that's devalued by the editorial decision to feature the horse race instead of what it means for every single one of us.
posted by zachlipton at 10:09 AM on December 2, 2017 [47 favorites]


How can you report any event without considering the consequences of that event?

First sentence of the the WaPo story:
Senate Republicans passed a $1.5 trillion tax bill early Saturday morning that bestows massive benefits on corporate America and the wealthy while delivering mixed blessings to everybody else.

First sentence of the NYT story:
The Senate passed the most sweeping tax rewrite in decades early Saturday, with Republicans lining up to approve an overhaul that will touch almost every corner of the United States economy, affecting families, small business owners and multinational corporations, with the biggest benefits flowing to the highest-earning Americans.

That looks like considering the consequences of the event to me.
posted by neroli at 10:09 AM on December 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


I can think of nothing more blasphemous than what those "Christians" did yesterday.

When millions of people of a religion promote a set of values, those are the values of that religion - even if there's a similar religion by the same name with different values. Those senators are Christians. That's what Christians do. Christians have a long, long history of oppression and slavery. A few breakaway sects that focus on the "care for your neighbor; feed the poor" parts of Yeshua ben Miriam's message don't change the majority. (Do note that the sects that focus on that, tend to be the downtrodden and poor; Christians in a position of power have never used that power for activities that would undermine its authority.)

The "no true Scotsman" fallacy has let these people slide for far too long. It lets them claim the label and delude their constituents into thinking they must be trying to help others, because that's what "Christians" do. It's very much time to acknowledge that "what Christians do" includes supporting racism, rapists, and stealing from the poor to give to the rich.

I am 100% certain that every Republican who voted yesterday would have been perfectly happy to say, "As a Christian, I support this bill." That law is soaked in Christian values.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:09 AM on December 2, 2017 [50 favorites]


Mueller removed FBI agent from Trump investigation over possible bias: reports
The Times reported that [the agent in question, Peter] Strzok was removed from Mueller’s team after the Department of Justice’s inspector general launched an investigation into text messages sent by the agent that could appear to contain anti-Trump views.

The agent reportedly exchanged text messages with FBI lawyer Lisa Page, whom he was dating, during the campaign and Clinton investigation that appeared to support the Democratic presidential candidate, people with knowledge of the matter told The Washington Post.
The cited Times story as well as WaPo further report that Strzrok was also a "key player" in the Clinton email investigation.

Looks like his departure from the Trump Russia probe was reported in August, but the information about why appears to be new today.
posted by solotoro at 10:12 AM on December 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


In the extremely unlikely scenario whereby Dems gain majorities in both houses: Are the provisions of this bill reversible?
posted by GrammarMoses at 10:15 AM on December 2, 2017


I am a voter who is not alone in watching your every move. We are angry, betrayed and have not forgotten that YOU work for us. Not for yourself, your business buddies, dark money orgs or even Trump himself. YOU work for YOUR constituents.

WE WILL REMEMBER YOUR RECORD.

Well said, except you're wrong. It's not enough to fire representatives and senators any more. They'll be taken care of, in return for doing the thing for their masters. They'll either be covered financially to win their race again, or they'll get a non-congress no-show consultancy to keep them comfortable. The only threat you can bring anymore is personal, like jail time, and even that's being destroyed.
posted by ctmf at 10:15 AM on December 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


Not to abuse the edit window: what this means in practice is once they're elected, it's too late. Hire better. Make candidates prove they aren't going to do this. How? I don't know.
posted by ctmf at 10:17 AM on December 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


In the extremely unlikely scenario whereby Dems gain majorities in both houses: Are the provisions of this bill reversible?

You also need a president who would sign the bill.
posted by Justinian at 10:17 AM on December 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Those of us with Democratic representatives: Thank them for their efforts to stop this bill, but ask them, now that the bill has passed, what they intend to do to punish the Republicans they see every day for their assault on America. How will they make them suffer?
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:19 AM on December 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


Obamacare daily repeal, take 2. Except this time, we would be ready to take care of business when we got what we asked for.
posted by ctmf at 10:20 AM on December 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


So the Senate bill doesn't have the graduate student deduction elimination, apparently?
posted by angrycat at 10:22 AM on December 2, 2017


So the Senate bill doesn't have the graduate student deduction elimination, apparently?
From what I can tell, that's right, although I don't think anyone knows exactly what was added at the last minute. But I think there's a pretty good chance that won't end up in the final version.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:23 AM on December 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


It’s possible Trump knew way back when that Flynn had lied to the FBI. I think it’s more likely he didn’t know and today’s tweet is just him attempting to show he’s the boss, and acted on Flynn’s prevarications long before the Special Counsel did. He’s just so stupid that in doing so, he firms up the obstruction of justice case against himself.
posted by notyou at 10:23 AM on December 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


All three of my reps in Congress are totally against this garbagedisasterfuck tax bill. Given that I have nobody to call, is there any sort of list of who might be more vulnerable to pressure from non-constituents? Like is there a Republican House Rep somewhere I can call up and say, "I wanted you to know I'm donating to your opponent to fight you specifically if you keep supporting this garbage?"
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:29 AM on December 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Swingleft.org and flippable.org will help you find the closest swing district to you. Call their local office, tell them you will be donating against them and coming to their district to knock doors over this tax vote.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:34 AM on December 2, 2017 [33 favorites]


Thinking about the scribbling on printouts from lobbyists and the random shit that could be in this bill reminded me of the OUTRAGE from Republicans when Pelosi was quoted out of context saying "we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it". Now the GOP gleefully passes a bill that they have no chance of knowing the contents of. It really is projection all the way down with these clowns.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:37 AM on December 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


Come 2020, assuming we're allowed to win, we're going to need to write a **LOT** of new laws, including a complete revamping of the tax code.

Everything they do is just one more thing for us to get cracking on and I devoutly hope that the Democratic leadership is learning from the Republicans here both in the positive and negative sense.

We need to have bills drafted, bugs worked out, negotiations done, ready to roll on Jan 21, 2021. There's plenty of Democratic lawyers, get them working **NOW**, in public, get the Democrats on board, and get the bills ready to pass. I'm not sure why having bills processing when you're out of power isn't part of the normal way things go, but it needs to be.

We've seen what happens when a Party gets a majority and is caught with its pants down, we don't need the Democrats to be scrambling in 2021 to try and get shit written. Get the bills written now, have minority meetings where the details are hammered out and the deals are cut and you're ready to vote.

Then, learn the other lesson from the Republicans: ram the bills through with a bare majority and fuck the filibuster and any other impediments. They've demonstrated that the filibuster apparently has oodles of loopholes, we need to use those loopholes for our benefit instead of playing nicey nicey and letting them use it against us. I don't know or care what procedural crap they're pulling to make the filibuster not apply to their total rewrite of the tax bill (including magic, totally illegible portions that will be "fixed" later), we need to use it too.

The other lesson we need to learn is that however quickly they did it, we can do it faster. Get the debate out of the way now, while we're a minority, get the bills settled, and get the major legislation passed and made law of the land in the first few days of the new Presidential administration. Don't let February come without the ACA being rebuilt and strengthened, a new tax bill that taxes the fuck out of the rich passed and applying to income in 2021, etc. They've demonstrated that the whole deliberation and letting the other side have a say bit is dead and gone, so don't try to bring it back.

But the key part is to make our bills a big, public, debatable, thing right this second. Get cracking, have a Shadow Congress [1] working in public and with lots of public input, to hammer out exactly what the Democrats will be passing, in the ten days between Jan 21 and Feb 1. Get some Democrats working on model Executive Orders for the new President to sign the instant they're in office. However many it takes, don't dribble them out one a week or whatever, get them signed an hour after the Democratic President is sworn into office, make it part of the inauguration party.

"And here's the Executive Order ending the Global Gag Rule!" signs, applause "And here's the Executive Order ending the Trump era anti-Muslim rules!" signs, applause. Right there on the stage while the nation watches.

But seriously, we've seen what happens when a majority party gets caught without bills ready and already finalized. We need to avoid that at all costs and be ready to roll as soon as we have a chance.

[1] Though, despite Shadow Cabinet being a legitimate term in a parliamentary system, probably for PR reasons it'd be best not to call it a shadow congress in the US given how prone the right is to throwing screaming conspiracy fits.
posted by sotonohito at 10:42 AM on December 2, 2017 [91 favorites]


The theory is that money businesses spend on expenses - like paychecks and rent and such - is someone else's income, and therefore already being taxed.

Yes, I've heard this since I was in short pants and it sounded bogus then. The problem is that every dollar is "taxed" multiple times. My income is all taxed and then taxed again when I spend it and then taxed when the recipient gets it and then when that person spends it, etc., etc., etc.
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:44 AM on December 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


Here's a list of the programs that would vulnerable to automatic cuts as per NYT a few days ago

This helped me maybe? understand how the fallout of this is going to look like
posted by angrycat at 10:44 AM on December 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


[1] Though, despite Shadow Cabinet being a legitimate term in a parliamentary system, probably for PR reasons it'd be best not to call it a shadow congress in the US given how prone the right is to throwing screaming conspiracy fits.

How milquetoast of you, sotonohito. I propose we go whole hog and call ourselves The Evil Council.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 10:48 AM on December 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Considering the speed of creation and broad swath of regulations affected by this tax law, what are the odds that some weird loophole was just created that will backfire in the GOP's face?
posted by PenDevil at 10:49 AM on December 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Everybody was constantly lying about Russia, but don't worry, that's just because we're stupid liars, not colluders.

The word you're looking for is "useful idiot". An essential component of many covert operations.
posted by ryanshepard at 10:52 AM on December 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


There are going to be loopholes all the way through this, but as many or more of them are going to hit the people who are already being slammed hard. "Well, there's this tax shield that's supposed to work for single parents living in borderline poverty, but it turns out, this part here is so badly phrased that it doesn't. I guess you don't get any benefits this month."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:53 AM on December 2, 2017


The odds are good that parts of the law will go wrong; it happens a lot. They’ll author “technical corrections” bills as glitches arise.
posted by notyou at 10:53 AM on December 2, 2017


You know, I know we frown on guillotine and "eat the rich" hyperbolic jokes, but I think it's no-shit going to take a credible threat of that to budge the overton window of acceptable congressional behavior back at all. They're normalizing white supremacy, we can normalize revolution.
posted by ctmf at 11:10 AM on December 2, 2017 [49 favorites]


So can somebody tell me if I have this narrative right?

Then can only pass via 50 if it is budget neutral. The whole trigger debate was because the senate was saying, hey if growth doesn't kick in then we'll look at the tax cuts and reduce the cuts. This would've made the bill more gentle.

Because the trigger didn't work, they said fuck it and let the automatic cuts kick in, which applies to everything that isn't protected from sequestration, if I have that right. From A-Z through federal agencies.

My query is this: How are these automatic cuts made? Do they just zero out budgets on the agencies that the most troublesome to them? Do they start with DoAg and just keep going down the alphabet?
posted by angrycat at 11:13 AM on December 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


For what little it may be worth, the international tax professionals I'm dealing with are completely disgusted with this "tax reform" bill. Regardless of your politics, Congress had a chance to fix a broken system and they proceeded to make it three times more complicated, incoherent and broken.

Until last night, I would have said that If you break down the purely corporate world into (a) pure domestic companies (b) high profit margin multinationals and (c) low profit margin multinationals, then (a) and (b) make out like bandits and (c) pays for everything. When they put the corporate alternative minimum tax back in last night, it broke so many things that no one has an idea where they end up.

Don't ask me about the politics, I'm just a dba trying to help pull data for the tax guys.
posted by sabraonthehill at 11:15 AM on December 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


Other up-and-coming Dems to donate to: I've mentioned Jana Lynn Sanchez and her campaign for Texas district 6 in the House, right? Her district in the Dallas-Fort Worth area has gone to the same conservative asshole (Barton R-TX) for 33 years, and is widely considered very safe indeed for the GOP.

She's raised $100,000 now on small-money donations (not one individual donation greater than $2700), which is more than any Democrat has ever raised for this race. She is an Annie's List candidate, and was directly moved and encouraged to run as a result of the Women's March. I have followed her since before she announced her candidacy, and I like her principles and her commitment. She's done a fucking kickass job so far, and I see no reason to think she won't bring those principles to Congress if she's elected.

She is not milquetoast or bland. This is a woman who is proud of the Latinx migrant workers she came from, not ashamed of them. She listens to her constituency, and she knows how to spin progressive values to appeal to them. She is a smart, tough woman with strong opinions, and I am wildly pleased with the character she demonstrated in Texan organizing circles even before announcing her candidacy and deciding to run.

And just the other day, Barton announced that he would not run for office again to oppose her in her district. So her Republican opponent will no longer have an incumbency advantage.

This is a lady to watch, guys. I'm super excited to watch her go.
posted by sciatrix at 11:16 AM on December 2, 2017 [69 favorites]


The flip side of "give them no straw man to rile up their base with" is "give them no boogy-man consequences to compel good-faith bargaining."
posted by ctmf at 11:16 AM on December 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Nov 30th, Orrin Hatch,

"the reason we don't have CHIP is because we don't have any money anymore"

There's a special place in hell.
I happen to think CHIP has done a terrific job for people who really needed the help. I have taken the position around here my whole Senate service. I believe in helping those who cannot help themselves but would if they could. I have a rough time wanting to spend billions and billions and trillions of dollars to help people who won't help themselves, won't lift a finger and expect the federal government to do everything.
How the fuck kids supposed to help themselves with health insurance? Are we going to put them back into the coal mines once the jobs come back? JFC what comes out of these people.
posted by Talez at 11:29 AM on December 2, 2017 [87 favorites]


Yeah, RIP my 3-year-old godson's CHIP healthcare. He was born at 25 weeks, 1 lb. 2 oz. He's battling short gut syndrome and just had tonsil surgery.

His mother got an overpayment letter from the SSA yesterday. Apparently he owes them $750. This, despite refusing to retroactively cover him since birth. He's been getting $30/month this whole time, so they most have mistakenly approved him for SSI in the first place?

This is what happens when federal agencies are drastically understaffed. They literally take food and medicine away from toddlers because they don't have enough people to do the work required to avoid internal accounting mistakes.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 11:35 AM on December 2, 2017 [73 favorites]


WaPost: Inside the Secret Nerve Center of the Mueller Investigation

Two favorite tidbits:
Once inside, most witnesses are seated in a windowless conference room where two- and three-person teams of FBI agents and prosecutors rotate in and out, pressing them for answers.
...
Often listening in is the special counsel himself, a sphinx-like presence who sits quietly along the wall for portions of key interviews.
and
The volume of questions about Kushner in their interviews surprised some witnesses.

“I remember specifically being asked about Jared a number of times,” said one witness.
posted by pjenks at 11:36 AM on December 2, 2017 [55 favorites]


That's not even the good part of the article, the wrapup:

“These guys are confident, impressive, pretty friendly — joking a little, even,” one lawyer said. When prosecutors strike that kind of tone, he said, defense lawyers tend to think: “Uh oh, my guy is in a heap of trouble.”
posted by sammyo at 11:50 AM on December 2, 2017 [34 favorites]


and
One person who was recently contacted said it is hard to find a lawyer available for advice on how to interact with the special counsel because so many Trump aides have already hired attorneys.

“It was kind of a pain,” the person said. “It’s hard to find a lawyer who wasn’t already conflicted out.”
posted by box at 11:50 AM on December 2, 2017 [19 favorites]


I have never been one to pray before bed, but in 2018 I am going to take up the Arya Stark mantra, and sleep only after I have said these names:

Mimi Walters. Ed Royce. Stephen Knight. Jeff Denham. (*) Darrell Issa. Dana Rohrabacher. (**)

We're coming for you. It's hilarious how the the California GOP (which, reminder, invited Steve Bannon to be keynote speaker at their pathetic convention, and gave him standing ovations) bemoans their endangered status, and then pulls this shit. It's like condors voting to require lead bullets be used to slaughter lesser game (oh, did I mistype "non-corporate constituents"?), not realizing (or not caring) that when they feast upon the remains of those constituents, they will get lead poisoning and die. Gee, thanks! We practically don't have to lift a finger!

But we will be lifting our fingers. So, y'know. Enjoy the present tense in your Wikipedia career description while it lasts.

*Winners of the idiot prize: voted to fuck their constituents despite being in flippable districts.
**Runner-up idiots who think that voting no on this one travesty of a bill will save their sorry asses.
posted by desert outpost at 11:51 AM on December 2, 2017 [20 favorites]


Via a commenter on the TPM discussion thread:

The Senate GOP meeting this morning.
posted by darkstar at 11:53 AM on December 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


They can only pass via 50 if it is budget neutral.

Not true. Via budget reconciliation Republicans can pass a bill with unlimited amounts of additional deficits for the first 10 years. They decided in their reconciliation instructions that they could stomach $1.5 trillion in new deficits. After the 10 year window, according to the Byrd rule, the new bill must no longer increase the deficit. So Republicans made the corporate tax cuts permanent and the individual tax cuts (that's you) phase out over the 10 year window to satisfy the Byrd rule.

Because the trigger didn't work, they said fuck it and let the automatic cuts kick in, which applies to everything that isn't protected from sequestration, if I have that right. From A-Z through federal agencies.

While the Republicans are permitted to increase deficits as much as they want, there is a separate law, the Statutory Pay-as-You-Go Act of 2010, known as PAYGO, that requires automatic across-the-board reductions in spending for certain mandatory spending programs to compensate for the new deficits of the Republican bill. These include Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps and other welfare programs. It does not require cuts to discretionary spending like the military.

But, the history of PAYGO enforcement is mixed. Under Democratic rule, PAYGO rules were strictly enforced. Under Republican rule, they simply passed waivers to PAYGO. A waiver to PAYGO requires 60 votes so Democrats have some leverage. But what kind of real leverage do they have when refusing to go along with a waiver means cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and other welfare programs.

So the bottom line is that no, Republicans aren't required to pass a budget neutral bill with 50 votes. They can have as big deficits as they like. And no, PAYGO rules are unlikely to curb them since PAYGO penalties affect mostly Democratic programs. They will just get a PAYGO waiver.
posted by JackFlash at 12:07 PM on December 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


They will just get a PAYGO waiver.

Which requires 60 votes. It's an interesting dilemma for the Ds as to whether they go along with it.
posted by Justinian at 12:09 PM on December 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Johnny Wallflower, thank you for posting that Solnit article - I think it's a very much needed inspiration to us right now, that resistance works. It might not work as fast or as far as we want it to - yesterday and 100%! - but it works. We're the mouse eating the elephant a bite at a time. From Timothy Snyder's On Tyranny: anticipatory obedience gives tyrants what they want.

Something I thought of that those of us with true-blue Senators and Representatives can do - Call and send postcards telling them: Thank you for all you do for us, your constituents. Now, no more Mr. or Ms. Nice Democrat. The gloves come off. Fight the Republicans every step of the way. Remember, they play dirty and don't have any respect for us.

You can get "From Your Constitutent" postcards on Etsy or Zazzle or Vistaprint. I got a whole bunch, and ordered stamps from the Post Office which they sent to me, so no waiting in line! My Senators and Rep are getting "Thank you, now be tough!" calls and postcards from me. Let's do the same, blue district MeFites!
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:10 PM on December 2, 2017 [24 favorites]


Just for clarification, Trump’s latest tweet about how he knew Flynn lied to the FBI, but then urged Comey to let it slide...that’s the SECOND time President Dumbass has openly confessed to completely separate Obstruction of Justice felonies.

The first time was when he confessed during a TV interview that he fired Comey because of the investigation into Trump’s alleged collusion with Russia.

I mean...it’s not enough that he actually committed felony Obstruction on two separate occasions...but now he’s openly confessed to both...and WHILE there is an ongoing investigation by a Special Prosecutor!

FFS, give him enough time and the idiot will confess to the Lindbergh kidnapping!
posted by darkstar at 12:10 PM on December 2, 2017 [27 favorites]


Why wouldn't the dems go along with a PAYGO waiver? I mean it would large parts of the safety net, wouldn't it?
posted by angrycat at 12:13 PM on December 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Because if there's one thing McConnell taught us from the Obama years its never go along with anything. Obstruct, obstruct, obstruct, and then get rewarded electorally. The Republicans are cutting Medicare etc with this tax bill, make them eat it.
posted by Justinian at 12:14 PM on December 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


Why wouldn't the dems go along with a PAYGO waiver? I mean it would large parts of the safety net, wouldn't it?

Exactly. It's like "well Republicans can shoot some of the hostages to show they're serious so why can't we?" and all I can scream at my monitor is "BECAUSE WE CARE ABOUT THE DAMN HOSTAGES".
posted by Talez at 12:15 PM on December 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


Those of us who want to instantiate our SHAME ON YOU feelings can use this postcard template.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:24 PM on December 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


Democratic Senators propose federal breach disclosure law with 5-year prison sentences for covering up data-loss
posted by Artw at 12:26 PM on December 2, 2017 [38 favorites]


"BECAUSE WE CARE ABOUT THE DAMN HOSTAGES"

That's precisely why the Dems (including the Left) can't employ winning Republican tactics. We can't. It won't work for us because, fundamentally, we both care AND are susceptible to collateral damage. Obstructionism is fine in theory - it's wonderful in theory - but it's not going to feed, clothe, heal, shelter, or protect our constituents. Republicans have no such qualms because they have no constituents, just masters.
posted by lydhre at 12:29 PM on December 2, 2017 [55 favorites]


One additional thought about 2020 and the idea that "Republicans are already giggling with happiness at the thought of a Democratic Congress and president undoing their handiwork." One of the few and increasingly reliable laws of American politics is that the party out of power does well during the midterms. That's why we had the waves of 2006 and 2010, and why we're heading into another one in 2018. What that means is that it's almost impossible to retain control of both chambers and the presidency for more than 2 years. And that means you've got at best, basically 1 solid legislative session to pass anything major per turnover. We had our shot in 2009, the Republicans get their shot now, and if all goes well, we get another shot in 2021, 4 years earlier than we might normally have expected.

On the one hand, it's terrible for democracy if you can only pass one major piece of legislation every 4 or 8 or 12 years. And it means that, as others have said, we've got to line everything up ahead of time to create exactly the same sort of omnibus bill Republicans just shoved through that does as much as possible in our tiny window of opportunity when it happens. But the upside is that, since Democrats are almost certain to lose at least one chamber in 2022 no matter what they do, there's absolutely no reason to worry about "playing into Republican hands" or political backlash from "cleaning up their mess". Go ahead and massively raise taxes, pass radical socialist handouts, upend Senate traditions, whatever. In a partisan world, fine distinctions between pragmatic centrism and left-wing socialism make almost no electoral difference. So Democrats should just accept that at best we get one window this decade, get everything lined up to shoot the moon, and forget about fine-tuned electoral worries. It's time to go for broke.
posted by chortly at 12:32 PM on December 2, 2017 [47 favorites]


The person who discussed the matter with The Associated Press was not authorized to speak about it publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity.

If the Mueller investigation has shown us anything, it's shown us that they are pros at keeping what they're doing totally under wraps. Which makes me wonder if this was a "don't leak this info under any circumstances [wink, wink]" sort of operation.
posted by triggerfinger at 12:34 PM on December 2, 2017


yeah I mean does the PAYGO waiver have to be attached to the tax bill and therefore dems would be in the position of having to vote yes on this POS?

because otherwise, I'd say it's less of a 'killing some of the hostages' situation and more 'staunch some of the bleeding' situation. It's hard to see Democrats as not agreeing to a restoration of say, Pell Grant funds in the name of obstruction. How could they run on such issues in 2018 if they're legislatively on the record as saying, 'fine, blow it all up'
posted by angrycat at 12:35 PM on December 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


for god's sake i hope that democratic legislators are drafting the legislation they hope to pass in 2019 RIGHT FUCKING NOW. if only to shame the GOP by example by having a public bill that constituents can read on the first day of the floor debate.
posted by murphy slaw at 12:36 PM on December 2, 2017 [27 favorites]


On the one hand, it's terrible for democracy if you can only pass one major piece of legislation every 4 or 8 or 12 years. And it means that, as others have said, we've got to line everything up ahead of time to create exactly the same sort of omnibus bill Republicans just shoved through that does as much as possible in our tiny window of opportunity when it happens.

And so the republic is torqued and twisted though increasingly more violent swings in policy and priority as political cycles move back and forth. This is starting to look like a slow-rolling revolution. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying I really don't like where this is headed.
posted by eclectist at 12:36 PM on December 2, 2017 [18 favorites]


yeah I mean does the PAYGO waiver have to be attached to the tax bill and therefore dems would be in the position of having to vote yes on this POS?

No. PAYGO does not attach to the tax bill. It is a completely after-the-fact rule. The deficits in the Republican bill become law. Then PAYGO automatically goes into effect, resulting in spending reductions -- unless there subsequently is another bill passed that waives the PAYGO rule.

Democrats have no leverage over passage of the Republican tax bill. They have little leverage in blocking a PAYGO waiver down the road unless they are willing to hold a gun to the head of the hostages.

In fact, PAYGO is more likely to have reverse leverage giving the Republicans more advantage. They will likely attach the PAYGO waiver to some other evil Republican agenda item, like permanent entitlement cuts. Because Republicans can say "Democrats must pass this bill or the Democrats end up shooting this cute puppy."
posted by JackFlash at 12:45 PM on December 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


increasingly more violent swings in policy and priority as political cycles move back and forth.

Only so long as they keep sticking to party over process. Any of the Republican senators could have defected yesterday, if they cared about the republic. I don't imagine Democrats will have the comparable DGAF to do the same in 19. Or if they do, it will be because they have to to look out for their people. Which would be essentially, revolution, yes. Or rather, a continuation of the revolution started by the Republicans in 17.
posted by ctmf at 12:47 PM on December 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


A Conservative and His Conscience
Earlier this year, Senator Jeff Flake published a self-important book entitled Conscience of a Conservative: A Rejection of Destructive Politics and a Return to Principle. Just for the lulz, I'd like to share with you a passage from pages 113 and 114 of that book, in which Flake argues that Senate customs protecting the power of the minority must be preserved, so the Senate can remain a body that guarantees patient, careful deliberation on important matters.
In a time of institutional uncertainty, if the proper checks and balances are to be preserved, we must act on conscience and principle. The Senate must be the saucer that cools the coffee, as George Washington is said to have told Thomas Jefferson. A case in point early in the new presidency was President Trump's increasing pressure on the Senate to dispense with the filibuster for legislation so that he might be able to get his program through the Senate without concern about achieving consensus. Such a move would turn the Senate into just another majoritarian body iust like the House of Representatives, thus forfeiting its reputation as a deliberative body at all, much less the world’s greatest. At that point, it might be fair to ask: Why have a Senate at all? [...]

That is not how constitutional democracy works. And it‘s not how the United States Senate works, either. [...]

I will not support any such effort to harm the Senate. It is a line I cannot cross. Assuming all forty-eight Democrats would also oppose any such effort, if just three Republicans join them. we could block it. There would, no doubt, be consequences. But so. too, would there be consequences if we were not to act.
Last night, at approximately two in the morning, under pressure from President Trump, Flake voted for the GOP tax bill, after it had been advanced under rules intended to sidestep the filibuster, a bill so hastily written that it had no full hearings and was being rewritten by hand hours before the vote. The vote was (with one exception) entirely along party lines. A minority-party amendment seeking an adjournment until Monday to permit senators to read the full bill was rejected, entirely along party lines. Flake voted against adjournment.

Nice conscience you got there, senator.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:49 PM on December 2, 2017 [114 favorites]


And so the republic is torqued and twisted though increasingly more violent swings in policy and priority as political cycles move back and forth. This is starting to look like a slow-rolling revolution. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying I really don't like where this is headed.

Moderate gradualism is the rare exception in modern democracies, and in fact rarely occurs in US history. At best the US system produces punctuated gridlock, with long periods of stagnation interrupted by things like the new deal, great society, and more recently, massive tax cut bills. But in most other modern democracies, there is a single legislative chamber that basically runs everything, and whenever a party or coherent faction wins a majority, they are free to make massive changes to the national government, with the result that you get much larger swings in policy as the left and right change hands than you do in the US. While gradualism might be preferable to these oscillations, the fact is that's not really what the US or other "checks and balances" systems actually produce, so in general, your options are relatively extreme swings, or nothing. I think the record of most the other developed democracies over the last 50 years suggests that a relatively fluid parliamentary system with more extreme swings does far better for its constituents than our intentionally gridlocked mess. Since a proper parliament's not really on the table here, the best we can do is abolish the filibuster and other non-constitutional barriers to change and make whatever big changes we can when we get the chance.
posted by chortly at 1:03 PM on December 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


...I don't think there's any other way to read that tweet other than he's admitting to obstruction of justice.

That seems to be the consensus of my Twitter feed, e.g. Lawfare blogger Susan Hennessey @Susan_Hennessey:
This is a pretty substantial confession to essential knowledge elements of an obstruction of justice charge.
NBC's Chuck Todd @chucktodd raises a good point:
Why didn’t @VP and @Reince know what you knew about all this last January before they went out and vouched for Flynn’s denial?
Business Insider's Natasha Bertrand‏ @NatashaBertrand makes another one:
I thought the White House didn’t know that Flynn had lied to the FBI when they fired him. Isn’t that what McGahn was so *angry* about yesterday?
Other commentators in my Twitter feed are simply giddy.

Sarah Kendzior @sarahkendzior
Hey look who confessed to obstruction of justice AGAIN. He's now admitted he knew of Flynn's crimes when he pressured Comey to drop the investigation.

Merry Christmas, Bob Mueller. You are indeed investigating a fucking moron 🙄
Renato Mariotti @renato_mariotti
If Trump knew that Flynn lied to the FBI, why did he tell FBI Director @Comey that Flynn was a “good guy” and that he should let Flynn go? That sure looks like an attempt to hide!

Has anyone told Trump he has the right to remain silent?
On the rightwing side of the anti-Trump spectrum, Bill Kristol‏ @BillKristol (of all people) looks at how Team Trump might be trying to set the groundwork for future action, however:
Ty Cobb’s statement yesterday and Trump’s comments this morning would seem to lay the predicate for Trump, a few weeks from now, expressing shock that the inquiry isn’t yet over, asserting once again that it’s a witch hunt, and firing Mueller and/or pardoning various people.
To judge from the Flynndictment reactions from Fox News yesterday, I can't rule out this strategy's success.
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:07 PM on December 2, 2017 [29 favorites]


Emails Dispute White House Claims That Flynn Acted Independently on Russia

“On Dec. 29, a transition adviser to Mr. Trump, K. T. McFarland, wrote in an email to a colleague that sanctions announced hours before by the Obama administration in retaliation for Russian election meddling were aimed at discrediting Mr. Trump’s victory. The sanctions could also make it much harder for Mr. Trump to ease tensions with Russia, “which has just thrown the U.S.A. election to him,” she wrote in the emails obtained by The Times.”

😦
posted by supercrayon at 1:16 PM on December 2, 2017 [94 favorites]


Between Trump tweeting obstruction of justice this afternoon and now this, I fully expect a cashed check for ten million dollars with RUSSIA COLLUSION in the Memo field to show up.
posted by chris24 at 1:45 PM on December 2, 2017 [31 favorites]


The old "America is a republic and not a democracy" saw is certainly feeling unusually truthful today, it's true.
posted by Artw at 11:02 PM on December 1 [9 favorites +] [!]

Michael Parenti, the socialist political scientist/intellectual, has a nice thorough examination of America through this lens, during a talk in Springfield.
posted by hexaflexagon at 2:20 PM on December 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


And here's the problem right here. NYT and Washington Post push notifications describe this as a "big win" and "major victory" for Trump instead of leading with the impact of the bill on the 323 million of us who aren't Donald Trump.

That's how indoctrinated we are. Sports news is about contracts, not play. Movies are talked about in terms of box office. Since I don't invest in movie companies I'm not sure why I'm supposed to give a shit about that. Substance is rarely discussed in the media anymore, it's all wins, losses, and business.

And NYT, like clockwork, now has as its top headline: "Few Hurdles Left for Republican Tax Plan"

Wow what a thrilling race this has been for the GOP, folks! Dodging journalist questions, rolling up the sleeves for some last-minute edits. They're so close to the finish line and we expect them to close this one out by a hair before the end of the year! Look how quickly they turned the tables around after the healthcare bill fiascos! And with that, we want to say thanks for reading, from all of us from the NY Times, signing off.
posted by hexaflexagon at 2:43 PM on December 2, 2017 [30 favorites]


The Men Who Cost Clinton the Election Jill Filipovic for the NYT
It’s hard to look at these men’s coverage of Mrs. Clinton and not see glimmers of that same simmering disrespect and impulse to keep women in a subordinate place. When men turn some women into sexual objects, the women who are inside that box are one-dimensional, while those outside of it become disposable; the ones who refuse to be disposed of, who continue to insist on being seen and heard, are inconvenient and pitiable at best, deceitful shrews and crazy harpies at worst. That’s exactly how some commentary and news coverage treated Mrs. Clinton.
posted by hydropsyche at 2:49 PM on December 2, 2017 [115 favorites]


Chrysostom... you are not alone.
posted by delfin at 2:55 PM on December 2, 2017 [24 favorites]


I'm not sure my sense of irony is Keen enough to invent Trump doing a fundraiser at Steve Scwartzman's house suggesting his re-election slogan will be "Have you checked your 401k Balance"
posted by JPD at 2:57 PM on December 2, 2017


I saw that on Twitter and assumed that it *was* Chrysostom. Is there an epidemic of people accidentally getting elected by writing themselves in for random offices? That would be a good kind of epidemic!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:04 PM on December 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


Chrysostom got TWO votes, not one. Two are required to claim an actual mandate from the masses.
posted by delfin at 3:07 PM on December 2, 2017 [43 favorites]


Legit question here, when your senators are Orin Hatch and Mike Lee... who are you supposed to email about this tax bill? {sigh}
posted by Crystalinne at 3:10 PM on December 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


First sentence of the the WaPo [/ NYT] story:

People read something before the first sentence. Often that thing is ALL they read. It has it's own name and is set off in large fancy letters because it's much more important.

NYT has choices they could make but aren't. As soon as a substitute (arguably Twitter, for zalex's sake) is commonly recognized I will be happy to shuffle them off to the back of the rack.

See the puff piece on John McCregular-Order's fine family in People magazine this week. Same thing.
posted by petebest at 3:15 PM on December 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


when your senators are Orin Hatch and Mike Lee... who are you supposed to email about this tax bill?

Really, truly - you are supposed to email THEM. I desperately wanted to call Utah residents this week to ask them to CALL HATCH. I have personally called Hatch in the past, despite living in California, because he chairs the Finance Committee, where the description next to his photo says, "Orrin Hatch is fighting to lower taxes, strengthen Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, and open markets to American products." Well, he just voted to gut Medicare and Medicaid. Please, please call him - twice a day if you can - and ask him why he just voted to gut Medicare. Ask him why he thinks it's okay to gut Medicaid. Ask him what effect he thinks a gutted economy will have on Social Security. Ask him what he thinks this will do to anyone you know who's on Medicare, or Medicaid. Ask him why he is actively attacking your well-being, and that of everyone else in Utah.

Over here in California, I can call him when there's a bill in his committee that affects me and have some tiny hope that he'll pay attention to me. You are a constituent. I know you think nothing you can say will affect his actions. I beg you to consider that you're mistaken, and I beg you to consider that it's worth doing even if you're right.
posted by kristi at 3:32 PM on December 2, 2017 [44 favorites]


The sanctions could also make it much harder for Mr. Trump to ease tensions with Russia, “which has just thrown the U.S.A. election to him,” she wrote in the emails obtained by The Times.

There's a slightly longer quote of that sentence further down supercrayon's link which does nothing to substantiate the WH's claim that "she meant only that the Democrats were portraying it that way":
“If there is a tit-for-tat escalation Trump will have difficulty improving relations with Russia, which has just thrown U.S.A. election to him,” she wrote.
Googling for it, I'm noticing that some people posting it around the internet have changed the terminating comma of the quote into a period.

But still, even if she continued the sentence to say something else, it's pretty clear that McFarland is in no way channeling Democrats when stating that—it was her own description of what happened.
posted by XMLicious at 3:33 PM on December 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


They're now claiming that Trump lawyer John Dowd, not Trump, wrote the obstruction tweet. Which if true is amazingly inept lawyering, but also really raises the question of who the hell speaks for the President, or even who actually is the President? The White House position has been the whole time that Trump tweets are official statements, but did Trump sign off on the Dowd tweet? Was he even aware of it or was he playing golf today? Which tweets impacting policy and foreign relations including with North Korea weren't actually authored or vetted by Trump? Is John Dowd or Dan Scavino making policy alone? How would we even know?

This is insane.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:39 PM on December 2, 2017 [129 favorites]


The thing that's been bouncing around my brain for a good while now when people complain about taxes (or outright shout that taxation is theft) is that to me, taxes are like membership dues. If you don't pay your membership to the gym, you don't get to use the machines to work out. Taxes are the membership fees that we pay to be a part of society. People who openly flaunt their avoidance of taxes should be reviled, not praised. They are saying, proudly, "I intend to reap all of the benefits of living in this society, and forcing others to financially support my participation." When we make that big long list of all the things that are in desperate need of rebranding, paying taxes as a true act of patriotism and love of one's society needs to be high on that list.
posted by Ghidorah at 3:41 PM on December 2, 2017 [82 favorites]


They're now claiming that Trump lawyer John Dowd, not Trump, wrote the obstruction tweet.

And questioning Dowd is restricted under client/lawyer privilege?
posted by PenDevil at 3:42 PM on December 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Questioning what Dowd and Trump discussed is usually privileged. Questioning him as to whether he wrote the tweet would not be.
posted by Justinian at 3:43 PM on December 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


i've been thinking quite a bit about tribalistic, dogmatic governance. for conservatives, government is evil and taxes are evil. everything they want to implement is rationalized from those principles. for libs, government is good and necessary for a civil society - and costs money. everything libs implement is rationalized on those principles.

over the last weeks, I've done a bit of reframing. it was useful to talk civilly with my ultra-conservative family (we respectfully discuss and know when it's time for a cool-down period).

so, looking at the clusterfuck we have right now, what different or complimentary first principles advance the common good for the most americans (and residents!).

so far, i have four concepts that i feel can change the language and framing for the left.

posiwid and, we measure effects. if the outcome of legislation is a racist police force...we designed a racist police force. we need to change the design.

the precautionary principle if we can't be pretty fucking sure of the damage something might do, then we won't do/allow it. e.g. since we have all our breeding pairs in one place, let's be pretty protective of the air and water.

harm reduction usually applied to public health policy, i believe it could be useful in domains across the culture. invest in bridges before they fall down because as i tell program managers, "pay now or pay later. you will pay, either way. later is ~3x the cost of now." it doesn't really endear me to them. kinda half-baked, but i think there's something real here.

the pottery barn rule humans are accountable for human decisions. the consequences of a poor outcome go to the humans, not just the corporate or public entity responsible. you spilled oil and you want to know how much you have to clean up? all of it.

these are principles, made by humans. application probably doesn't need to be utterly platonic.

i think if we talked about governance using these ideas, it breaks the reactionary response to existing partisan language. thoughts?
posted by j_curiouser at 3:49 PM on December 2, 2017 [31 favorites]


Terminating comma is the correct punctuation for a within-quote sentence that ends directly before the end quotation mark when the enclosing sentence continues.

Yeah, but that stylistic rule isn't reversible... it's sort of like lossy compression, since once applied there's ambiguity over whether the original text included a comma or a period.
posted by XMLicious at 3:54 PM on December 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


"Big Win for Trump" and "Republican Congress Passes Tax Cuts Without Hearings, Experts Say Will Not Create Growth" are both accurate descriptions of the news event, and deliberate choices are consistently made to run the first, and not the second.

This was a long time ago thread-wise, but lots of people only read headlines. Given that the media is addicted to both-side-ism, why not at least introduce a little of that into the headlines, like "Tax Law Big Win for Trump, Big Loss for Middle Class" or "Big Win for Trump Expected to Gut Obamacare" or whatever. But that would slow down the sport narrative I spose.
posted by Bella Donna at 4:00 PM on December 2, 2017 [19 favorites]


So I was having a chat with my partner about their frustrations with the spin that local Democrats have taken and the messaging that a whoooooole lot of working people coming through their pawn shop are receiving. It's Austin, so they get a wide range of people and a wide range of tribal and political ideas, and since everyone's talking politics... well, that's coming up a whole hell of a lot. And there's this problem that has been driving them bug-fuck nuts about what Democratic politicians are doing with respect to spin and messaging that they're terrified will hurt Dem candidates in 2018, especially Dem candidates trying to flip red districts (like ours!).

Which is: to many people who aren't already plugged into liberal identities or political blogging or political education, Democratic party platforms and representatives are not getting across the actual gains that Democratic ideals want to make for these people's day-to-day lives. I don't mean the hardline Republicans out in Alabama who will vote for just about anyone, as long as he's GOP. I mean people who have never thought about it too hard, or people whose families vaguely view Republicans as the party of the "working man" because let's face it, forty years of bald-face lying will fool at least some of the uninterested.

Because of the way we're talking about the evils of Republicans, because the New Deal has been so effectively dismantled--ten years before I was born this started, let me remind you, it's been a damn long time since we had public discussions about the good things governments can do for their people--many, many people are just not used to thinking about taxes as actually yielding useful things for them. People don't think about the infrastructure they rely on. We're fighting decades of lies and bullshit and poor education.

What elected party officials need to do is emphasize, in clear, easy to understand language, not only what the Republicans are doing that is wrong and illegal... but also, what Democrats would do in a sane and functional system that would work better. The Democratic party needs to be shouting "If they weren't pulling this bullshit, we could write a tax law system that would make it easier for you to do your taxes!" or "if they weren't doing this, we could have taxes that would make your schools better across the board!" Point out where Republican governors' choices to make the system worse (hi, Obamacare) are active choices that are made by a specific party, and don't let the GOP control the damn narrative.

And sure, we're seeing this here already. We are not the rank and file of the American public. At least, again, not judging from the sample of the people who are broke enough and getting by enough to be patronizing a Texan pawn shop, which is a pretty minimal one, but a sample unlikely to have come up here.

Those of you who are wondering what you call and push your Dem elected officials on: push them on this. It's a tactic that didn't occur to me to think about, in part because I've always been around Blue Dogs who know damn fucking well that they have to do this to get any ground at all... but that doesn't mean that Dems in "safe" blue districts know that they need to do this, and higher-level Democratic officials are not doing it at all with the exception of Elizabeth Warren and a few others. (My own personal rep always does this: when he opposes something, every time he says 'I am fighting for tax plans that will draw money from billionaires in order to help working Americans get by' or whatever.)

Push them on this. The media is shitty about it, what with their desire to get "two sides" to everything? Doesn't matter. Pressure your rep to frame this battle like this on social media, to talk about people and what they want to accomplish with the policies they would put through if they could. Talk about healthcare for Granny and wanting make sure no kid has to die because he aged off health insurance and couldn't afford his fucking insulin. Talk about wanting to make a tax system that distributes wealth from the rich to the middle class, that makes sure that "working Americans" are paid fairly and not unjustly taxed, and that the megarich pay proportionately into the system that keeps the nation running. Don't frame the situation as helping the poor: frame it as helping the average working stiff.
posted by sciatrix at 4:03 PM on December 2, 2017 [45 favorites]


when your senators are Orin Hatch and Mike Lee... who are you supposed to email about this tax bill?

Email them. Call them. Make their secretaries afraid to pick up the phone, nervous about opening the email inbox. Make them dread contact with their constituents.

I mean, getting them to actually consider their actions would be lovely, but we're going for practical, here. Make them unable to figure out which of their croneys and fundraisers they're supposed to support, and what laws those people want enacted, by flooding them with content they don't want to face.

To that end, mix up the email text a little. Don't just send ones that say, "SHAME YOU DISGUSTING PIG;" send ones that say, "I wish to provide feedback on your recent actions regarding the tax bill. I notice that you participated in the late-night voting session, and I wish to commend your dedication to the legislative process. I retain, however, some concerns related to the content, rather than the context, of your actions..." so that someone has to actually spend time reading it.

They're now claiming that Trump lawyer John Dowd, not Trump, wrote the obstruction tweet.

In which case, Trump should lose his verified status. If the tweets don't actually come from the person claiming ownership of the account, they shouldn't be verified.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:03 PM on December 2, 2017 [40 favorites]


Yonhap News Agency: U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptor stealth fighters have arrived in South Korea to stage simulated attacks on mock North Korean nuclear and missile targets.
posted by bluecore at 4:11 PM on December 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


And as someone in a state with red senators, let me chime in here...

when your senators are Orin Hatch and Mike Lee... who are you supposed to email about this tax bill?

Listen, my senators are John Cornyn and Ted Fucking Cruz, and I email them and I call them and I fax and write letters. I don't do it in the sincere hope that they'll moderate their behavior, because they are screaming loons; I do it in the transparent hope that this will let fear extend a curling tendril into their yellow, jandiced bellies. I want them to know that their constituents--the people who can recall them, the people to whom they owe their jobs--are angry. I want them to walk a fine line, and I want them to have no honest way to pretend that the rank and file of those constituents are not absolutely, burningly furious.

They're assholes. I know they're assholes. You know they're assholes. They know I know they're assholes.

But if their staff is constantly fielding twenty-minute calls from me and people like me demanding to know how the Senators account for their actions on a moral compass, they will be miserable. Yes? No one likes running shitty phone service jobs. Call centers suck balls, and the Senators' tend to be run by poorly paid or unpaid interns. They're there because they're hoping that job will give them a leg up in the party.

If they quit because people like me are making their lives hell, well, who's going to answer the phones until new suckers can be recruited? Higher-ups. And if their lives are hell, if they're constantly being distracted by ringing phones or full voiceboxes or fax machines that won't stop... Well, that's going to make their job a little more miserable. And a lot harder to get shit done.

As the anger and resentment trickles up the line, it means that the support staff for a Senator and all the little machinery that's supposed to keep things running smoothly begins to crack and wither. It means that everyone becomes miserable, and miserable people do shit work and look for excuses not to be present.

That's the point of calling. Clog their fucking lines. Be a thorn in their sides. Make sure they can't pretend that your voice doesn't exist.

Make them wish they'd never heard of you or your state, and make politics seem just that much less attractive a career option than it previously seemed to be. Be as ungovernable as you can, and see if you can't make them lose their shit like a particularly green substitute teacher handed off to a room of unruly fifteen year olds.
posted by sciatrix at 4:11 PM on December 2, 2017 [127 favorites]


The more I look at Trump's tweet the more skeptical I am that Dowd wrote it. Dowd has been a lawyer for more than 50 years in various capacities. Surely someone with this much education and experience would know that the word is "pleaded" and not "pled"? Trump's tweet says "He has pled guilty".
posted by Justinian at 4:28 PM on December 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


Aside from the fact that it's simply a lie that Dowd wrote the tweet, note that they claim he "drafted" the tweet. Meaning, he said something yesterday to Trump and Trump then poked it out from memory while driving from one NYC fundraiser to another.
posted by pjenks at 4:37 PM on December 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Just thinking out loud:
Way back, socialists were critical of taxation, because taxes were imposed by the lords and capitalists on the peasants and workers to pay for wars. It looks like the US is getting back to that state. Maybe this can somehow be put to use?
The socialist promise of the welfare state was to reverse that old model into a new one of getting the rich to pay for human rights and basic dignity and general welfare.
The social democratic compromise which worked in Western Europe for a lifetime was to have everyone pay something (though the rich paid much more) and everyone get something back from the commons. Healthcare, education and pension is provided for the rich as well as for the poor, and everyone but the very poorest pay into the commons. That way, even today you will have millionaires feeling that they get something back for their taxes. They pay a lot, but they get "free" healthcare, their kids get first class educations and their parents get food brought every day and a subsidized cleaning person. If the balance of price (taxation) and services is right, you have to be immensely rich to not benefit from the welfare system when it works. Like 0.1 % rich.
I guess that is to some extent how it works in the blue US states today: wealthy liberals appreciate the good schools and the functioning infrastructure and above-standard welfare, even if they personally don't use those services so much.
posted by mumimor at 4:37 PM on December 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


Dowd has been a lawyer for more than 50 years in various capacities. Surely someone with this much education and experience would know that the word is "pleaded" and not "pled"?

Not really indicative of anything, both forms are standard in legal documents.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:39 PM on December 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


The Post has excerpts from Corey Lewandowski and David Bossie's upcoming book (like, so many that I can't imagine why anybody would buy the book now): Trump’s campaign: Big Macs, screaming fits and constant rivalries. I'll quote a bit, but there's no quote that does all of this justice.
In one of the most striking passages of the book, the co-authors describe a scene in which Bannon is read the first few paragraphs of a forthcoming story by a New York Times reporter laying out allegations that Manafort had received a $12.7 million payment from a Ukrainian political party. The encounter occurred at Manafort’s apartment in Trump Tower, where, the co-authors write, an unnamed woman in a white muumuu “lounged” on the couch.

“Does Trump know about this?” Bannon asked, according to the book.

“What’s to know, it’s all lies,” Manafort replied.

The woman on the couch “imploringly” asked, “Paul?” Manafort responded, according to the book, “It was a long time ago. I had expenses.”
...
One of Hicks’s jobs was to make sure that Trump’s suits were pressed when they flew on his plane.

“ ‘Get the machine!’ ” Trump would yell, according to the book. “And Hope would take out the steamer and start steaming Mr. Trump’s suit, while he was wearing it! She’d steam the jacket first and then sit in a chair in front of him and steam his pants.”

One day, when Hicks forgot the steamer, Trump became angry.

“G--dammit, Hope! How the hell could you forget the machine?”

The authors wrote, “It was a mistake she would never make again.”
I, for one, would like to know who this woman in the white muumuu is who seemingly called Manafort out on his crap. Or what kind of "expenses" totaled $12.7 million.
posted by zachlipton at 4:44 PM on December 2, 2017 [31 favorites]


The more compelling argument would be that no remotely competent lawyer would be telling Trump to say anything about an ongoing investigation. It’s another obvious lie, and we shouldn’t even be entertaining it.

I can’t imagine the attorney would be willing to take a bullet for Trump under oath, either.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:48 PM on December 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


They're now claiming that Trump lawyer John Dowd, not Trump, wrote the obstruction tweet.

Is that not a violation of Twitter's TOS for verified accounts? Beyond that, is it not a sign of significant professional incompetence for a lawyer to publicly confess that his client committed obstruction before a plea arrangement has been made?
posted by nubs at 4:54 PM on December 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


I can’t imagine the attorney would be willing to take a bullet for Trump under oath, either.

Yes. Not to beat a lying dead horse, but the Post actually got an on the record clarification from Dowd himself
Update: Dowd says, "The tweet just paraphrases what [White House lawyer] Ty Cobb issued yesterday. I refer you to Comey’s testimony about Flynn’s answers. I have nothing further."
before "two people familiar with the twitter message" attributed the authorship to Dowd.
posted by pjenks at 4:57 PM on December 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


In today’s edition of What Does Putin Have on Alan Dershowitz?, apparently-formerly-serious law professor Alan Dershowitz appeared on MSNBC to say that Flynn shouldn’t have taken a plea deal because lying to the FBI about possibly breaking the Logan Act isn’t “material” or prosecutable because the Logan Act is hard to prosecute. Just as lying to the FBI about sexual assault isn’t “material” or prosecutable because sexual assault is hard to prosecute. 🤔
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:58 PM on December 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


@imillhiser: Just so we’re clear, a vetted statement drafted by counsel that admits to a crime is MUCH MORE INCRIMINATING than a tweet tossed off by a suspect with a well-known reputation for saying things that aren’t true.
posted by pjenks at 5:03 PM on December 2, 2017 [53 favorites]


Literally it's a crime to lie to the FBI under 18 U.S.C. § 1001(a). All this garbage about the Logan Act is a non sequitur.

(I don't know what's up with Dershowitz, but The Daily Beast noticed over the summer that Dershowitz went from Hillary donor to Fox News Mueller attack dog in short order.)
posted by xyzzy at 5:13 PM on December 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Same as it ever was: Trump vs Talking Heads
posted by madamjujujive at 5:22 PM on December 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


apparently-formerly-serious law professor Alan Dershowitz appeared on MSNBC to say that Flynn shouldn’t have taken a plea deal because lying to the FBI about possibly breaking the Logan Act isn’t “material” or prosecutable because the Logan Act is hard to prosecute.

Apparently Dersh - and all your R relatives who scream 'collusion isn't illegal!' - have forgotten that Clinton was impeached for obstruction and perjury covering up an act that was completely legal. (And an act that hadn't even occurred when the investigation started, much less related to it.)
posted by chris24 at 5:23 PM on December 2, 2017 [32 favorites]


Michael Schmidt has the full quote:

@nytmike: .@McFaul See attached. As we said in the story, it’s no clear that she is saying she believed that election had been thrown. And WH lawyer in story said she was referring to how Dems portrayed it.

The picture text says
My take::
Obama is doing three things politically:
-discrediting trumps victory by saying it was due to Russian interference
-lure trump into trap of saying something today that casts doubt on report on Russia's culpability and then next week release report that catches Russians red handed
-box trump in diplomatically with Russia. If there is a tit for tat escalation trump will have difficulty improving relations with Russia which has just thrown USA election to him.
Still a bit fuzzy, but it does sound like she's gaming hypotheticals.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:34 PM on December 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Still a bit fuzzy, but it does sound like she's gaming hypotheticals.

I mean, you can read it that way, but the most damning bit is what she's not doing: taking at all seriously the prospect that Russia's actions pose a national security threat or considering the role of the sanctions in responding to that threat. Her entire focus is on Obama, rather than Russia or the country. What she's certainly not saying is "gosh, we need to get to the bottom of what happened here, because addressing it will be one of the biggest challenges this country will face."

Of course, McFarland is the person who thought Hillary Clinton was sending helicopters to spy on her, so there's a lot of reason to just believe she's an idiot and none of her words have any actual meaning.
posted by zachlipton at 5:48 PM on December 2, 2017 [24 favorites]


Clinton was impeached for obstruction and perjury covering up an act that was completely legal. (And an act that hadn't even occurred when the investigation started, much less related to it.)

I never thought those facts would make me happy. Thank you.

2017, everybody!
posted by petebest at 5:53 PM on December 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


Robert Mueller will have access to IP address logs subpoenaed from Twitter, hell, he might have real time intercepts. He can figure out whether the obstruction tweet came from Trump's device, or from Dowd's, should he decide it's evidence he wants.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:58 PM on December 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


You can tell Donny is feeling the pressure when he goes after Clinton.

@realDonaldTrump
So General Flynn lies to the FBI and his life is destroyed, while Crooked Hillary Clinton, on that now famous FBI holiday “interrogation” with no swearing in and no recording, lies many times...and nothing happens to her? Rigged system, or just a double standard?
- Many people in our Country are asking what the “Justice” Department is going to do about the fact that totally Crooked Hillary, AFTER receiving a subpoena from the United States Congress, deleted and “acid washed” 33,000 Emails? No justice!
posted by chris24 at 6:17 PM on December 2, 2017 [21 favorites]


On a related note.

@joshrogin: Pompeo says Trump’s tweets have helped the CIA because they have learned command and control and decision making of other countries by watching their response to Trump’s tweets. Really. #RNDF #RNDF2017

Saying dumbass shit helps the CIA, because we get to see how other countries react in horror?
posted by zachlipton at 6:23 PM on December 2, 2017 [52 favorites]


@BarakRavid: BREAKING: I reported tonight on @news10: Palestinian delegation visited the White House & told US officials moving the embassy to Jerusalem or recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital will kill possibility for any future peace talks

Heck of a job, Jared
posted by zachlipton at 6:42 PM on December 2, 2017 [59 favorites]


@AshaRangappa_ (For FBI CI Special Agent)
INTEL THREAD. Leaving aside the Logan Act for a moment (which as you know I'm happy to chat about), I want to highlight how serious the Trump team's interference with Obama's sanctions were, as I have some experience in this area.
2. Kicking out a diplomat from the US is hard -- I know, because I tried to do it. It's called "PNG"-ing, which means making them a Persona Non Grata. Since diplomats have immunity, it's basically the harshest punishment you can give, and it's only done in the most serious cases.
3. The FBI is charged with monitoring foreign intelligence activity in the US. Most foreign intel officers are here under diplomatic cover. So typically it's the FBI who says, "This guy is up to some really bad s***, he needs to go."
4. It's not that easy, because there are a lot of repercussions. For one thing, most countries retaliate with a tit-for-tat, PNG-ing our diplomats -- usually CIA officers -- in response. And there are diplomatic consequences as well.
5. So trying to PNG someone involves a multi-agency process. Obviously, the CIA will take into account the repercussions on its intelligence activities in that country. State, for its part, basically never wants to do anything that ruffles feathers. It's a huge PITA.
6. As a result, a PNG is extremely rare, even for one diplomat. And when it is done, it's typically done pretty quietly. When was the last time you heard about diplomats being kicked out of the country?
7. I explain all this to give some context to how extraordinary and serious the sanctions that the Obama admin took last December were. This was not just one diplomat, but *35*. And it was done very publicly.
8. The idea was to send a VERY strong message that the U.S. knew that Russia had meddled in the election, and that there were going to be consequences. Clearly both the CIA and State were on board with this.
9. For an incoming admin to covertly, and against the explicit request of the Obama admin, to send messages directly contradicting the official US stance is crazy. Apart from making the US look weak and impotent, it essentially was telling Russia that what it did was OK.
10. Whether or not these actions amounted to a crime, it was a coordinated, covert effort directly against the interests of the United States. It threw off what was likely a lot of planning and analyses and contingencies that various agencies had prepared.
11. I think when we focus exclusively on the criminality aspect, we (continue to) miss how these efforts essentially aided and abetted a hostile foreign state who attacked our country. That is the big picture.

---

And speaking of technical issues of criminality...

@realDonaldTrump: I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!

@Evan_McMullin
Retweeted Donald J. Trump
And if Flynn’s actions were lawful, why would he lie to the FBI about them?

@john_sipher (ex-CIA)
Retweeted Evan McMullin
Also, we are too caught up in legalities. It is already clear that what they have done was wrong in almost every way. They need to pay a powerful political price. We cannot have a leader whose sole claim is that there is not enough evidence to prove he's a criminal.

@Evan_McMullin
Retweeted John Sipher
This is a critical point. Our nation cannot thrive with scoundrel leaders. Whether their wrongdoing results in legal consequences or not, we must hold them accountable politically.
posted by chris24 at 7:17 PM on December 2, 2017 [110 favorites]


You can tell Donny is feeling the pressure when he goes after Clinton.

Maybe Trump saw this video of Clinton reacting to the news about Flynn at her book signing.

Seriously, she laughs and says, "You can read a lot about Russia in this book," holding up a copy of What Happened. "There's a whole chapter that explains a lot of what happened, so I highly recommend it for some holiday reading." And everyone around her joins in to laugh.

Trump would be absolutely furious if he saw it and wouldn't be able to restrain himself from tweeting more frothing abuse about "Crooked Hillary".
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:28 PM on December 2, 2017 [20 favorites]


Brian Ross, the chief investigative correspondent for ABC News, has been suspended for four weeks without pay after incorrectly reporting that Michael T. Flynn, the former national security adviser, would testify that President Trump had directed him to make contact with Russian officials while Mr. Trump was still a candidate, the network announced on Saturday. From the NYT and lots of other places.
posted by Bella Donna at 7:43 PM on December 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Coming soon to a 2018 campaign ad.

@DeanHeller
I was asked earlier today if I read the tax bill...

Read it?

I helped write it!

---

And in that same ad...

@BattleBornProg
.@SenDeanHeller now throws out a stage 4 cancer patient for demanding answers. This is disgusting. #GOPTaxScam

VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 7:52 PM on December 2, 2017 [36 favorites]


i think abc is wrong wrt ross. as far as the logan act and whatever potential conspiracy was happening, president-elect vs candidate is a distinction without a difference (ht kabiddi champ).
posted by j_curiouser at 7:59 PM on December 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


The political story is vastly different between reporting that Flynn was ready to testify about Russian contact during the campaign vs. the transition. Campaign contact means collusion to steal the election. During the transition doesn't necessarily, even if it was also illegal, and that's the heart of the story. That's not a small screw up. And Ross has a history of fucking up big stories, this may have been a straw the broke the camel's back situation and not just over one instance.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:16 PM on December 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


Brian Ross' greatest hits:
*Faked a video during Toyota's sudden acceleration bugaboo.
*Falsely linked Saddam Hussein to 2001 anthrax attacks.
*Falsely reported on Abu Zubaydah torture bolstering legendary effectiveness of waterboarding.
*Falsely reported Auora, Co shooter "Jim Holmes" was a member of the Tea Party Patriots.
posted by peeedro at 8:19 PM on December 2, 2017 [27 favorites]


Trump is near his all-time low: 34 approve - 60 disapprove.

He's now 33 approve, 62 disapprove. That's his record low in approval, record high in disapproval, and record negative net. This was taken yesterday, the day of the tax bill so maybe some impact, but that's probably still to come. His net has dropped 12 points in 3 days.
posted by chris24 at 8:50 PM on December 2, 2017 [50 favorites]


I always understood that when they take these polls they normalise them by asking how people voted in the last election and adjusting based on that. Is that the case, and if so is it possible that there's a systemic error caused by regretful Trump voters lying to the pollsters? If so, the unashamed Trump supporters would be over-counted.

I know this is wishful thinking, but sometimes wishes come true …
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:21 PM on December 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
So General Flynn lies to the FBI and his life is destroyed

No, General Flynn lies to the FBI and gets off without a day of jail time and he gets to keep his rank and his $100K+ yearly pension. Your life is destroyed. Trump’s mirror strikes again.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:51 PM on December 2, 2017 [59 favorites]


Republicans are already giggling with happiness at the thought of a Democratic Congress and president undoing their handiwork.

Democrats definitely need to think the approach through carefully, and obv you need to have a president who won't veto any changes you make. That means any votes before 2020 will be only to create campaign issues in 2020, which is still a good reason to bring bills forward.

But don't try a wholesale repeal. I would suggest one of two strategies:

1) Keep all of the cuts the same. BUT -- make personal tax cuts permanent, and corporate tax cuts the ones that expire. I think vulnerable Republicans may have difficulty voting against that.

2) Cherry pick individual tax breaks, starting with the most outrageous.

First up, tax break for owners of private jets. You want to oppose that? Proceed, Senator.
Second, the hedge fund manager tax break. Second only because harder to explain.
Third, estate tax. Etc.
posted by msalt at 12:05 AM on December 3, 2017 [18 favorites]


Joe, that's the $64,000 question. All pollsters use screens and modeling to proportionally interpret ("weight") the couple thousand people they actually call in a poll. This can be everything from race to landline usage to their previous voting record, either actual or modeled based on their characteristics. These screens are tightened as elections approach using the pollster's own judgement as to what constitutes a likely voter, but whether they can get that right is really the heart and soul of polling. I am pretty certain that the major pollsters are all exercising higher caution at this point due to what was clearly some undercooked modeling a year ago. Whether any individual poll has gotten it right, though, is literally unprovable until election night.

RealClearPolitics uses a poll average but no modeling that I know of. FiveThirtyEight uses some fairly sophisticated modeling (this is modeling of poll results against each other), based on past experience. Both of them seem to show Moore retaking the lead in the race, for what that's worth, and that's the judgement I would bet on going into this.
posted by dhartung at 12:15 AM on December 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


There's so much awful stuff that we don't even have time to be outraged about. Like, say, Foreign Policy, Colum Lynch, Trump Boycotts U.N. Migration Talks
President Donald Trump has decided to boycott a global conference on migration scheduled to begin Monday in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, sending a blunt signal that the United States is no longer interested in forging a concerted response to the world’s burgeoning migration crises.

Trump made the decision on Friday — a day dominated by Senate negotiations on a landmark tax bill — and just days before the Mexican government is scheduled Monday to host a three-day meeting to take stock of negotiations on a pact to ensure a more humane approach to the more than 60 million people who have been forcibly displaced as a result of conflict, poverty or climate change. On Saturday, the U.S. mission to the United Nations informed Secretary General Antonio Guterres that it was “ending its participation in the Global Compact on Migration.”

The U.S. president’s decision to pull out of the negotiations highlighted the enduring influence of Stephen Miller, the 32-year-old senior White House policy advisor who has championed the Trump administration’s effort to sharply restrict immigration to the United States. In recent weeks, Miller led effofts to pull out of the migration talks.
Nikki Haley was left as the only one arguing that we should attend given that we could, I don't know, have some influence over the process if we bothered to show up.

In other news, Bloomberg, Billy House (why yes, yes he does have a good name for covering Congress), U.S. House Republicans Prepare Contempt Action Against FBI, DOJ
U.S. House Republicans said Saturday they are drafting a contempt of Congress resolution against Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and FBI Director Christopher Wray, claiming stonewalling in producing material in the Russia-Trump probes and other matters.

“Unless all our outstanding demands are fully met by close of business on Monday, December 4, 2017, the committee will have the opportunity to move this resolution before the end of the month,” said Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes, in a statement.

Such contempt action has been under consideration by Nunes and other Intelligence Committee Republicans for several weeks. It is now moving forward after press reports Saturday about why a top FBI official assigned to Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s probe of Russia-Trump election collusion had been removed from the investigation.
Please add recusal to the list of words that apparently no longer carry any meaning.
posted by zachlipton at 1:34 AM on December 3, 2017 [45 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump:
BREAKING: top FBI investigator for Mueller--PETER STRZOK--busted sending political text messages bashing Trump & praising Hillary during the 2016 campaign. STRZOK actually LED the Hillary email probe & recommended clearing her; then was tapped to SUPERVISE the Trump Russia probe!— Paul Sperry (@paulsperry_) December 2, 2017

Obviously this shocking revelation discredites everything about Mueller's investigation and proves that Trump was always right about everything and Hillary must go to jail immediately and all publicly owned buildings should have giant Trump signs and portraits on them from now on and into all eternity amen.
posted by Dumsnill at 4:14 AM on December 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


I mean the whole fucking story is that Mueller removed Strzok from the team the moment he learned about these text messages. If anything, that should lend more credibility to his investigation, not less.
posted by Dumsnill at 4:35 AM on December 3, 2017 [56 favorites]


In pre-dawn Twitter message, Trump issues a fresh denial about intervening in Flynn investigation (WaPo)
President Trump issued a fresh denial Sunday that he asked former FBI director James B. Comey to halt an investigation into the conduct of his dismissed national security adviser Michael Flynn.

“I never asked Comey to stop investigating Flynn,” Trump said in a pre-dawn message on Twitter. “Just more Fake News covering another Comey lie!”
posted by Barack Spinoza at 4:39 AM on December 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


So this morning he's called Comey a liar, called an FBI agent dishonest, and said new FBI Director Wray needs to clean house. Making friends and influencing the deep state. The complaint about politicization is also priceless given Benghazi, Gowdy's recently revealed $150k settlement for firing someone for refusing to go after Clinton, Trump's constant interference in DOJ business, calling for his opponent to be jailed/investigated, etc. etc. (And we're up to 7 tweets already this morning. Someone's stressed and angry.)


@realDonaldTrump
Tainted (no, very dishonest?) FBI “agent’s role in Clinton probe under review.” Led Clinton Email probe. @foxandfriends Clinton money going to wife of another FBI agent in charge.


Donald J. Trump retweeted
@paulsperry_
Wray needs to clean house. Now we know the politicization even worse than McCabe's ties to McAuliffe/Clinton. It also infected his top investigator PETER STRZOK, who sent texts bashing Trump & praising Hillary during campaign. Strzok led Hillary probe & supervised Trump probe!
posted by chris24 at 4:48 AM on December 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


This morning’s (ongoing) presidential tweet storm is essentially meta-obstruction of justice. This little shit is also basically telling his base to revolt if the investigation ends up implicating the president. He’s behaving dangerously.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 4:54 AM on December 3, 2017 [36 favorites]


Guys, I am very scared he's going to fire Mueller and use his signature on their tax plan as some sort of leverage to make this investigation go away.
posted by angrycat at 4:58 AM on December 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm not sure why, but it seems like Mueller has a plan in place for if he gets fired. Just strikes me like that kind of guy...
posted by localhuman at 5:05 AM on December 3, 2017 [34 favorites]


I'm not sure why, but it seems like Mueller has a plan in place for if he gets fired. Just strikes me like that kind of guy...

Your friendly neighborhood Schneiderman.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:08 AM on December 3, 2017 [19 favorites]


And it continues. Now the whole FBI sucks.

@realDonaldTrump
After years of Comey, with the phony and dishonest Clinton investigation (and more), running the FBI, its reputation is in Tatters - worst in History! But fear not, we will bring it back to greatness.
posted by chris24 at 5:09 AM on December 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


Get ready for Trump’s fireworks (Dana Milbank, WaPo OpEd, 12/1)
Though predictions are perilous in the age of Trump, this really could be the beginning of the end of the national horror his tenure has been. If [Fox Host Bret] Baier is correct — as I believe he is — that Trump gets more outrageous when he feels cornered, then this means the nation is entering a perilous period. We can expect Trump to grow more dangerous and desperate in his distractions as he hears Mueller’s footsteps. Although Trump’s erratic behavior is damaging in its own right to alliances and civility, the greatest danger is that while we chase Trump’s distractions, we lose sight of real calamity.

This week was a good example. Trump raised the level of crazy. We in the media took the bait. And you, dear reader, encouraged us.
posted by ZeusHumms at 5:11 AM on December 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


This week was a good example. Trump raised the level of crazy. We in the media took the bait. And you, dear reader, encouraged us.
I asked my digital colleagues for the top 25 pieces that appeared on The Post’s website this week before the Flynn news broke. Along with news stories about current intrigue — the Matt Lauer firing, James O’Keefe’s failed sting operation against The Post, Prince Harry’s engagement — the items were dominated by Trump insanity: his Muslim-video retweets, his insult of the British prime minister, his attacks on CNN, his war on the “war on Christmas,” the insults he traded with Democrats, his “unhinged” behavior and his veering past “guardrails” of what’s acceptable.

But in the top 25 were only two about the monstrous tax bill as it made its way through the Senate this week. There were only two about North Korea testing a missile that could strike anywhere in the United States. There was only one about Trump’s takeover of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. And there wasn’t a single article about the sprawling Russia scandal.
'See!!! It's not the media's fault. It's yours dear readers for reading what we focus on and not forcing us to cover more the truly important issues!'

Fuck you Dana. It's the media's job to filter, to focus, to educate. You have failed and no matter how you try to deflect the blame, when the history of this period is written - god hope we have writing and historians when it's over - you will be rightly condemned.
posted by chris24 at 5:17 AM on December 3, 2017 [112 favorites]


> We in the media took the bait. And you, dear reader, encouraged us.

Because dog forbid you (= the media people) actually take some kind of responsibility.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:17 AM on December 3, 2017 [24 favorites]


> But Mr. Strzok was reassigned this summer from Mr. Mueller’s investigation to the F.B.I.’s human resources department, where he has been stationed since.

HR? If that isn't a head on a pike, I don't know what is.
posted by klarck at 5:18 AM on December 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


Operative Offered Trump Campaign ‘Kremlin Connection’ Using N.R.A. Ties (NYT)
A conservative operative trumpeting his close ties to the National Rifle Association and Russia told a Trump campaign adviser last year that he could arrange a back-channel meeting between Donald J. Trump and Vladimir V. Putin, the Russian president, according to an email sent to the Trump campaign.

A May 2016 email to the campaign adviser, Rick Dearborn, bore the subject line “Kremlin Connection.” In it, the N.R.A. member said he wanted the advice of Mr. Dearborn and Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama, then a foreign policy adviser to Mr. Trump and Mr. Dearborn’s longtime boss, about how to proceed in connecting the two leaders.

Russia, he wrote, was “quietly but actively seeking a dialogue with the U.S.” and would attempt to use the N.R.A.’s annual convention in Louisville, Ky., to make “‘first contact.’” The email, which was among a trove of campaign-related documents turned over to investigators on Capitol Hill, was described in detail to The New York Times.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:18 AM on December 3, 2017 [26 favorites]


And we're up to 9 tweets as he gives legal advice to the American people.

@realDonaldTrump
People who lost money when the Stock Market went down 350 points based on the False and Dishonest reporting of Brian Ross of @ABC News (he has been suspended), should consider hiring a lawyer and suing ABC for the damages this bad reporting has caused - many millions of dollars!
posted by chris24 at 5:25 AM on December 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


So now he aims to destroy the somewhat independent media by encouraging an endless stream of frivolous lawsuits.
posted by Dumsnill at 5:29 AM on December 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


Report: “ANTI-TRUMP FBI AGENT LED CLINTON EMAIL PROBE” Now it all starts to make sense!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 3, 2017

And this is an instruction to journalistic outlets on how to frame their articles?
posted by Dumsnill at 5:44 AM on December 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


Meanwhile in Brexitland, Bannon has been over courting Jacob Rees-Mogg in what looks like 45 deciding to abandon Theresa May. JRM in turn seems to have gone full alt-fact and signed up to that oh-so-successful 45ist approach ("Experts, soothsayers, astrologers all in much the same category" is one of his. Sound familiar?). There are also signs that he and the rest of the ultra-Brexit cabal are gearing up to force a failure of EU talks by telling the Irish to shut up and do what they're told over the NI border issue. There is no actual coherent plan on offer, though, which makes it an entirely Bannonesque move towards pulling down the temple pillars so the new thousand-year feudal overlordship can commence.

Either Bannon is still doing his master's bidding, or he's politicking away on his own behalf in the expectation of chaos to come. With 45 in splutter-rage mode, I don't suppose it matters which.
posted by Devonian at 5:52 AM on December 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


There's so much awful stuff that we don't even have time to be outraged about.

I have a different view. We should absolutely be outraged about all of the atrocious behavior. But don't spread yourself thin by directing your outrage at the legion of acts that induce it. Instead, I submit that we should all, collectively, concentrate that outrage, and use it as rocket fuel to propel us unerringly toward a singular goal.

I further submit that that goal should be teaching our representatives to fear defying us more than they fear disappointing their donors. And not when the next election rolls around, but now, and every day.

It's been clear for a long time that a great many of them either intend, or at least are willing to accept, the end of legitimate government. It's long, long past the time when, ideally, we would have been
relentlessly shutting down business as usual, clogging offices and hallways and buildings and streets and jails until our demands for justice in all its forms are taken seriously. It's still not too late, but it's not going to get easier.

We should look at, for example, anti-corruption protests in Romania and be utterly ashamed of ourselves. And then, rather than wallow in shame or succumb again to complacency, we should transform that shame into outrage and pool it with the rest, and be loud, and strong, and unshakable.

Once we finally open our eyes to the fact that failing to do this will result in far greater sacrifices over a much longer time period than doing it would, I believe it will clear that there is no other viable option.
posted by perspicio at 6:01 AM on December 3, 2017 [28 favorites]


Jesus he's not celebrating the tax bill is he? These latest tweets: If some actor was improvising some role wherein she was cracking under pressure, the director would like--that's too obvious, tone it down.
posted by angrycat at 6:06 AM on December 3, 2017 [42 favorites]


I always understood that when they take these polls they normalise them by asking how people voted in the last election and adjusting based on that. Is that the case, and if so is it possible that there's a systemic error caused by regretful Trump voters lying to the pollsters?

You (and dhartung) are thinking of election polls. These are complicated because the population you're trying to sample is "People who voted in the 12/12 special election." Doing this on December 2 is, obviously, difficult, so they have to make guesses about who will and won't, or who will turn out with what probability.

Approval polls are simpler since the population of interest is "American adults." They probably still do some reweighting after the poll is taken but it would be just to adjust for broad demographics. The poll has too many men, so we count each man's response as 0.9 of a response. Etc.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:10 AM on December 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


Yeah, I feel like the absence of any celebration of the tax code "win" in today's festival of tweet insanity is... (dot dot dot) interesting.
posted by Dumsnill at 6:12 AM on December 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


It's the media's job to filter, to focus, to educate.

Wow. I agree totally, but just seeing it out there in blue-and-white is just: they've virtually never done that for altruistic purposes. When justice has benefitted it's almost by chance, or that focus has been an understood unintentional side-effect, i.e. Challenger disaster. But their job is to make money and wield influence, full stop.

In our current situation vis á vis the Traitor In Chief? That ideal is not close to happening before the tide has decisively turned. Calling Trump out so far hasn't won them enough, and their best moneymaking move is normalization. In medicine, this is called "cancerous". Those outrageous tax bill headlines were just the latest proof.

I thought we all learned on 11/9 what polls and corporate news were about, at least Re: Trump (polls are wrong, corporate news is a giant net-negative factor), but I understand they're all we have or know. Well, that and Twitter.

That's part of why I read these threads everyday, all day. Y'all are one of the very few reasonable, intelligent counterweights to a mediated world gone mad. So, thank you.
posted by petebest at 6:34 AM on December 3, 2017 [27 favorites]


Jared Kushner failed to disclose his role as a co-director of the Charles and Seryl Kushner Foundation from 2006 to 2015, a time when the group funded an Israeli settlement considered to be illegal under international law, on financial records he filed with the Office of Government Ethics earlier this year.
posted by stonepharisee at 7:28 AM on December 3, 2017 [86 favorites]


Yeah, sure, but who remembers trivial shit like that when applying for security clearance.
posted by Dumsnill at 7:30 AM on December 3, 2017 [14 favorites]



> We in the media took the bait. And you, dear reader, encouraged us.

Dana Milbank is a pile of garbage. always has been. never forget.

(linked to back up my correct statement but nobody should have to watch it. the relevant three seconds are the ones where he says "and we won't tell you who's getting a bottle of Mad Bitch," and flashes a pic of Clinton up in the corner. he is such a coy little imp.)
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:31 AM on December 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


The point of this Des Moines Register article is that it's not true that the estate tax is a problem for Iowa family farmers, but the money quote from Chuck Grassley is only tangentially related:
“I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing,” Grassley said, “as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”
I'm going to have some fun sharing that on social media. Definitely: the reason that you're not going to die with $11 million in assets is that you're just spending too much on flicks and floozies.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:35 AM on December 3, 2017 [54 favorites]


I know this isn't the Moore thread, but since this is McConnell and affects the composition of the Senate...

The official position of the GOP is again pedophilia is fine.

@ThisWeekABC
Asked by @GStephanopoulos if he believes Roy Moore should be in the Senate, @SenateMajLdr says, “I’m going to let the people of Alabama make the call.”

VIDEO


@Evan_McMullin
.@SykesCharlie: We are seeing the crack-up of one of the nation’s two major political parties. The GOP was once the party of Buckley, Reagan and McCain. Today, Trump is the face of what the GOP has become. Moore is the face of what it is becoming.
TIME: Charlie Sykes: Roy Moore Signals the End of the Republican Party

---

Usual caveats about the GOP (post-Ike) always being a dumpster fire... (And Charlie Sykes is a former rightwing radio personality and now NeverTrumper. Author of "How The Right Lost Its Mind" )
posted by chris24 at 7:41 AM on December 3, 2017 [15 favorites]


Usual caveats about the GOP always being a dumpster fire... (And Charlie Sykes is a former rightwing radio personality and now NeverTrumper.)

New York has a Conservative party, distinct from the Republican party. It appears to be populated with Even Crazier Republicans, rather than Fiscal Conservative Republicans, but I imagine many Republicans who aren't crazy wish there were a "Not Crazy" option.
posted by mikelieman at 7:44 AM on December 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


Operative Offered Trump Campaign ‘Kremlin Connection’ Using N.R.A. Ties (NYT)

With background on the Kremlin's efforts to court the NRA, here's the Washington Post: Guns and Religion: How American conservatives grew closer to Putin’s Russia
[A] conservative Nashville lawyer named G. Kline Preston IV, who had done business in Russia for years[...] said that in 2011 he introduced David Keene, then the NRA’s president, to a Russian senator, Alexander Torshin, a member of Putin’s party who later became a top official at the Russian central bank. Keene had been a stalwart on the right, a past chairman of the American Conservative Union who was the NRA’s president from 2011 to 2013.[...]

A friend of Mikhail Kalashnikov, revered in Russia for inventing the AK-47 assault rifle, Torshin in 2010 had penned a glossy gun rights pamphlet, illustrated by cartoon figures wielding guns to fend off masked robbers. The booklet cited U.S. statistics to argue for gun ownership, at one point echoing in Russian an old NRA slogan: “Guns don’t shoot — people shoot.”[...] Torshin was also a leader in a Russian movement to align government more closely with the Orthodox church.[...]

In Russia, Torshin and an aide, a photogenic activist originally from Siberia named Maria Butina, began building a gun rights movement. Butina founded a group called the Right to Bear Arms, and in 2013 she and Torshin invited Keene and other U.S. gun advocates to its annual meeting in Moscow.[...] Interviewed by the conservative website Townhall, Butina called the NRA “one of the most world famous and most important organizations” and said that “we would like to be friends with NRA.”[...]

Relationships between Russians and American conservatives seemed to blossom in 2015, as the Republican presidential race geared up.

Butina posted social-media photos showing how she and Torshin gained access to NRA officials and the U.S. politicians attending events. That April, Butina toured the NRA’s Virginia headquarters, and she and Torshin met Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (R), then a leading White House contender, at the NRA annual convention. Torshin told Bloomberg last year that he had a friendly exchange with Trump at the 2015 convention and sat with his son Donald Jr. at an NRA dinner the following year.
Incidentally, Time covered some of this last March: Moscow Cozies Up to the Right

And then there's this deep cut from Torshin's twitter account @torshin_ru from February last year:
Мария Бутина сейчас в США. Пишет мне, что Д.Трамп (член NRA) реально за сотрудничество с Россией. [Google translate: Maria Butina is now in the US. He writes to me that D. Trump (a member of the NRA) is really for his cooperation with Russia.] (hat-tip @andrewsweiss, whom Torshin has blocked)
Would You Like to Know More? Torshin was implicated in money-laundering for the Tambovskaya Bratva mafiya group. National Post: Mobster or Central Banker? Spanish Cops Allege This Russian Both
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:00 AM on December 3, 2017 [26 favorites]


Operative Offered Trump Campaign ‘Kremlin Connection'...it that Kermit I hear?:

Why is there so much news about the Kremlin and getting dirt on the other side?
These Kremlin stories are only illusions, and Trump has nothing to hide.
So we've been told and some choose to believe it.
I know they're wrong, it's just spin.
Someday we'll find it, the Kremlin Connection.
Is it Kushner, or Sessions or Flynn?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:01 AM on December 3, 2017 [18 favorites]


John McCain @SenJohnMcCain
After careful consideration, I have decided to support the Senate #TaxReform bill. Though not perfect, this bill will deliver much-needed reform to our tax code, grow the economy & provide long overdue tax relief for American families.
My graduate research focuses on improving diagnostic imaging of yr exact type of brain cancer but hey thx 4 voting to increase my taxes 400%

Such a perfect response to such a ghoulish vote.
posted by Talez at 8:01 AM on December 3, 2017 [168 favorites]


Roy Moore and Trump aren’t the end of the Republican Party, they’re just the end of its veneer of plausible denial for a lot of shit they’ve been trying to keep under wrap since at least the ‘60s.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:04 AM on December 3, 2017 [43 favorites]


Absolutely. Ronald Reagan was a bigoted, authoritarian, abhorrent ball of fuck but he tucked it underneath his Amiable Grandpa public persona. Moore and Trump don't have an inside voice, and at this stage of the reprogramming of America they no longer need one.
posted by delfin at 8:22 AM on December 3, 2017 [50 favorites]


Michael Bender, WSJ: Trump Finds Loopholes in Chief of Staff’s New Regime

The president on occasion has called White House aides to the private residence in the evening, where he makes assignments and asks them not tell Mr. Kelly about the plans, according to several people familiar with the matter.

Heck of a job, Kelly. You wraithed yourself into oblivion forever in exchange for a few weeks of less tweeting, and now the big fella does whatever he wants again. You went from "General", to "General Who Will Keep Trump Under Control," to "Asshole Tasked With Making the Administration More Efficiently Evil," to some station below whatever Christie's rank was when he was assigned Court Burgerfetcher and Groom of the Meatloaf.

I'd like to say that your ruination will serve as a lesson to other courtiers, but if the last year has taught me anything it's that there'll always be another wraith.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:38 AM on December 3, 2017 [50 favorites]


The GOP was once the party of Buckley, Reagan and McCain. Today, Trump is the face of what the GOP has become. Moore is the face of what it is becoming.

And despite his presumably rueful phrasing, McMuffin isn't wrong. The GOP is now the party of Trump and Moore precisely because it was the party of Buckley, Reagan and McCain (and Nixon, Agnew, Atwater, Ailes, Helms, Gingrich, Rove, ...).
posted by hangashore at 8:39 AM on December 3, 2017 [26 favorites]


A drawing I did from a few weeks ago of the demonoid monster Trump. It really does seem like he's possessed by old school satanic energies on days when he does multiple tweets.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 8:40 AM on December 3, 2017 [24 favorites]


“I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing,” Grassley said, “as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”

Hey Grassley! I'm a woman and you are damn right I'm spening my money on myself and the women around me: donations to Planned Parenthood, the ACLU, Lambda Legal, women running for office, etc.
posted by mcduff at 9:28 AM on December 3, 2017 [58 favorites]


That is legitimately disturbing, Phlegmco
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:37 AM on December 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Twitler bullshit this morning fits pretty solidly into a recognizable pattern. When something real bad for him breaks, he's quiet for about a day. Naturally, the media is like, "He hasn't said anything, he's playing it cool," and yeah that's true because probably every adviser is sitting on him and he thinks it's a way to demonstrate strength. But inside, he's seething, and within 24-48 hours he has to lash out on his phone.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:48 AM on December 3, 2017 [19 favorites]


The perfect gift for your racist uncle's White Elephant party: Trumpy Bear.
posted by guiseroom at 9:56 AM on December 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


Sunday morning political talk show roundup:

Meet the Press with Senator Diane Feinstein
"The [Senate] Judiciary Committee has an investigation going as well and it involves obstruction of justice and I think what we're beginning to see is the putting together of a case of obstruction of justice. I think we see this in the indictments, the four indictments, and pleas that have just taken place and some of the comments that are being made. I see it in the hyper-frenetic attitude of the White House, the comments every day, the continual tweets. And I see it most importantly in what happened with the firing of Director [James] Comey, and it is my belief that that is directly because he did not agree to ‘lift the cloud’ of the Russia investigation. That’s obstruction of justice."
ABC This Week with Representative Adam Schiff
"I think that in his factual basis for the plea he sets out that [Flynn] wasn’t acting as a rogue agent, that, in fact, he was acting at the knowledge and direction of people who were senior members of the transition team. [...] I do believe he will incriminate others in the administration. Otherwise, there was no reason for Bob Mueller to give Mike Flynn this kind of a deal where even on a factual basis you can see there are other kinds of crimes that could have been charged. Whether that will lead, ultimately, to the president, I simply don’t know."
Face the Nation with Senator Lindsey Graham
"I would just say this to the President, there's an ongoing criminal investigation, Comey may be part of it, you tweet and comment regarding ongoing criminal investigations at your own peril. [...] It comes down to the following to me: Was there any effort by the Trump campaign to coordinate with Russian intelligence services or any entity controlled by the Russians to receive benefit during the election, and they found the one guy that would know that. [...] Mike Flynn would know if there was collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians [...] and we're going to know pretty soon one way or the other. "
At this rate, Trump will once again be rage-tweeting late tonight and first thing tomorrow morning.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:05 AM on December 3, 2017 [22 favorites]


Why do we call them Deplorables?

Oh, dunno, maybe you're a POS Senator named Heller whose beefy thugs kick a Stage IV cancer patient out of a meeting when she tells you she'll die without Obamacare.

So many people have the chilling question, why are the Republicans acting so flagrantly, when so many are up for reelection in less than a year, not to mention Benedict Donald creeping ever closer to a perp walk out of the Oval.* Some feel this is a sign there won't ever be anything remotely resembling a non-fixed election again.

After 2000 and 2016, I'm not certain we aren't there already. But OTOH I also think a lot of these legislator mercenaries know they'll just slip back into a cozy multi-million dollar gig, thanks to their DonorClass buds. (And even if they don't have a great healthcare package at the new job, won't they still be eligible for the Congressional Obamacare for life?)

* BTW speaking of future possible crises - if the time ever does come, how would we physically get donnie out of the WH? Remember, when he said this BEFORE the election?
posted by NorthernLite at 10:10 AM on December 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


> how would we physically get donnie out of the WH?

Play it cool until he goes golfing, and have a welcome comittee waiting for him on the green.
posted by Too-Ticky at 10:22 AM on December 3, 2017 [11 favorites]


Republican Tax Bill Could Hurt U.S. Military, According to Top Generals (Nicole Goodkind, Newsweek)
“Anyone who is voting for this bill is essentially saying: ‘You know, I’ll talk a good story about supporting national security, but when it comes down to the money, it’s going to go to the wealthiest Americans,’” he told his fellow Senators.

In a letter addressed to Congress this month, three former defense secretaries, Leon Panetta, Chuck Hagel and Ash Carter, wrote that passing the Republican tax plan will mean that the Pentagon will be forced to cut spending “for training, maintenance, force structure, flight missions, procurement and other key programs.” The result, they wrote, is “the growing danger of a ‘hollowed out’ military force that lacks the ability to sustain the intensive deployment requirements of our global defense mission.”
posted by Room 641-A at 10:32 AM on December 3, 2017 [17 favorites]


Please don't make me watch that. What is the quote?

It's from one of the debates, when he's asked "will you accept the results of the election?" and about the peaceful transference of power and his response is "I'll tell you that at the time" and a rant about the corrupt media poisoning the minds of voters. Followed by Hillary describing that as "horrifying."

I have absolutely no doubt that if Trump loses in a McGovernesque stomping in 2020, he will have more reasons than H&R Block why the election was rigged and invalid and how the Republicans must conduct 4.39238E+12 investigations into foreign involvement. Whether he would leave and scream that from outside or refuse to leave at all is left as an exercise for the reader.
posted by delfin at 10:57 AM on December 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


Ben Zimmer, Atlantic: Looking for the Linguistic Smoking-Gun in a Trump Tweet
I searched through the LexisNexis news database to try to find [Dowd's] preference for forming the past tense of “plead,” and I discovered an example from January 2010, when Dowd was representing the billionaire hedge-fund manager Raj Rajaratnam, who was standing trial for insider trading. As quoted in The Wall Street Journal, Dowd said of Rajaratnam, “He’s pled not guilty and we intend to try his case and demonstrate that he’s innocent.” (Rajaratnam was later found guilty and is currently serving an 11-year prison sentence.)

So Dowd, too, is on record as a “pled” user. That single word does not betray some non-lawyerly voice—Trump’s or anyone else’s—so we can’t point to it as evidence for who really wrote that tweet. It would be a tidy solution to isolate the use of “pled” as a kind of “tell” disproving the attribution of the tweet to Dowd, but it is in fact exceedingly difficult to be able to identify such a linguistic smoking gun.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:02 AM on December 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


McConnell Walks Back Roy Moore Criticisms: It’s Up to Alabama to Decide
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) on Sunday appeared to walk back his criticisms of Alabama GOP Senate candidate Roy Moore. “I’m going to let the people of Alabama make the call,” he said on ABC’s This Week.
Well so much for standing against self-admitted pedophiles. Is there nothing they won't sell out in their thirst for power?
posted by Talez at 11:05 AM on December 3, 2017 [27 favorites]


The pled/pleaded thing is such Bizarro Appellate Twitter, what about Trump's likelihood of having all tweets disallowed as evidence? I have to think that's the long game, vs. A-HA COLUMBO'ing on word usage. Kremlinology might be a fun sport, but what did the original version ever give anybody?
posted by rhizome at 11:06 AM on December 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


@Evan_McMullin
Retweeted Donald J. Trump
And if Flynn’s actions were lawful, why would he lie to the FBI about them?

@john_sipher
Replying to @Evan_McMullin
Also, we are too caught up in legalities. It is already clear that what they have done was wrong in almost every way. They need to pay a powerful political price. We cannot have a leader whose sole claim is that there is not enough evidence to prove he's a criminal.

After slogging through the Sunday morning political shows where the Trump supporters were all trying to push the "lack of evidence" line, I also noticed that everyone is taking Trump's lie that he fired Flynn at face value and repeating it. Flynn RESIGNED. Whether he fell or was pushed is irrelevant. Giving Trump credit now for taking an action that he can walk back in court is playing into his bullshit artist's con game.

On a more meditative note, James Comey's Instagram shade game is strong. Yesterday, he posted a calendar art–worthy image of seaside sunset with the caption, "Beautiful Long Island Sound from Westport, CT. To paraphrase the Buddha — Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun; the moon; and the truth. "
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:12 AM on December 3, 2017 [40 favorites]


Some feel this is a sign there won't ever be anything remotely resembling a non-fixed election again.

I'm one of these. Ordinarily, there's no scenario under which the vote on the Tax Bill wouldn't constitute immediate electoral suicide; the only explanation I can think of for the vote is that the Repubs know, 100 percent, that the voters can't touch them. I mean, I hope to hell I'm wrong. I'm sort of pessimistic and cynical, so if someone could come up with another explanation, I'd love to hear it.
posted by holborne at 11:16 AM on December 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


TIME: Charlie Sykes: Roy Moore Signals the End of the Republican Party

From that link:

Do not confuse this with any sort of coherent ideology. Representative Thomas Massie, a Republican for Kentucky, tried to diagnose the mindset of the Tea Party voters when he told the Washington Examiner, “I thought they were voting for libertarian Republicans.” Massie continued, “But after some soul-searching, I realized when they voted for Rand and Ron [Paul] and me in these primaries, they weren’t voting for libertarian ideas. They were voting for the craziest son of a bitch in the race. And Donald Trump won best in class.”
posted by philip-random at 11:21 AM on December 3, 2017 [16 favorites]


the only explanation I can think of for the vote is that the Repubs know, 100 percent, that the voters can't touch them. I mean, I hope to hell I'm wrong. I'm sort of pessimistic and cynical, so if someone could come up with another explanation, I'd love to hear it.

they needed a win. so many losses even with majorities in the house and the senate, and their man in the oval office -- they HAD to have a win, any kind would do.
posted by philip-random at 11:26 AM on December 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm one of these. Ordinarily, there's no scenario under which the vote on the Tax Bill wouldn't constitute immediate electoral suicide; the only explanation I can think of for the vote is that the Repubs know, 100 percent, that the voters can't touch them. I mean, I hope to hell I'm wrong. I'm sort of pessimistic and cynical, so if someone could come up with another explanation, I'd love to hear it.

I think that under current gerrymandering maps we're going to see no House victory or a *very* slim House victory. The Senate is already running the table for Democrats so we might be lucky and maintain currently levels. There are a few states that are normally R but went D for a variety of reasons in 2012 so it might be enough to stem the tide and make 2020 a goal.

Republicans are probably well aware of their electoral position and are probably a tad worried but still quietly confident they can keep control of at least one chamber if not both. The question is whether liberal America gets bored or distracted by a butterfly or some shit by 2020. The American electorate has always been unquestioningly quick to forgive Republicans for their sins. If 2020 is long enough for tempers to cool and the usual Southern Strategy order to reestablish itself they can ditch Trump and still fight for another triple chamber go.

The sad thing is that antipathy has always been the kryptonite of Democrats. There's more than enough Liberal people in America to outvote the bigots. Voter suppression is a thumb on the scale but it's only a thumb. Liberal people need to show up for everything and they'll win handily. But we don't. So we're here.
posted by Talez at 11:37 AM on December 3, 2017 [23 favorites]


if someone could come up with another explanation, I'd love to hear it.

There's always Bruce Bartlett's theory...

"The answer is that Republicans are pushing the tax cut at breakneck speed precisely because they know they are probably going to lose next year and in 2020 as well. The tax cut, once enacted, however, will bind the hands of Democrats for years to come, forcing them to essentially follow a Republican agenda of deficit reduction and prevent any action on a positive Democratic program. The result will be a steady erosion of support for Democrats that will put Republicans back in power within a few election cycles."
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:41 AM on December 3, 2017 [15 favorites]


I'm sort of pessimistic and cynical, so if someone could come up with another explanation, I'd love to hear it.
Well, perhaps it's not that the voters can't touch them but by the time they've cratered the economy and destroyed the rule of law they can jump ship and live off the proceeds of their crimes. Losing their seats might be part of the plan.
posted by fullerine at 11:42 AM on December 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


They wrote the fucking tax bill by hand in the middle of the fucking night. There is no fucking plan.
posted by schmod at 11:44 AM on December 3, 2017 [71 favorites]


I'm sort of pessimistic and cynical, so if someone could come up with another explanation, I'd love to hear it.

The problem is that the primary system is currently really, really fucked currently, because as a result of Trump’s election, the lowest-information Trump-supporting voters are the most energized. The Republicans that hate him and hate this nonsense are honestly kind of...disorganized and tired. We don’t have the motivation to be active in our local Republican clubs this year, or to volunteer for positions, or spend our money and time on Republicans.

So you can’t win an election, period, unless you win the primary. It’s a disqualifier. And right now, Republican primary voters are showing that unless people “get on board with Trump’s agenda”, they are going to primary from the right. That’s how people like Roy Moore got up for election in the first place. It didn’t matter how electable Luther Strange was in the general - the primaries are deeply, deeply broken.

So right now a lot of legislators are doing stupid stuff to avoid being primaried, and are hoping they can course correct after the primary, gambling those Republican voters will forgive the zig zagging because the only other choice is voting for a democrat. It absolutely, absolutely does not mean we’re on the verge of Stalinist elections - it just means we are presently facing deeply broken ones.
posted by corb at 11:46 AM on December 3, 2017 [33 favorites]


I guess I'd say, "Never put down to ideology and forward planning what can be explained by stupidity, ignorance, opportunism and groupthink". I don't think this is a brilliant plan from the Republicans because I can't think of very many Republican politicians who strike me as brilliant, or even diligent and informed. (Democrats are somewhat better, but not to the degree that they should be.) Most of them didn't read the whole bill, most of them didn't think about the outcomes of the parts they did read, and most of them are too historically and economically illiterate to achieve any insight if they did try to puzzle it out. Consider the Republicans - their "strategies" are always "be racist", "give money to rich people" and "keep as many people as possible from voting" - these are not clever insights, they're just powerful ones which tend to work even if you're stupid and incompetent.

If the entire Democratic apparatus truly backed an intelligent social democrat with even a modicum of political experience, that person would mop the fucking floor with the Republicans. Consider Obama, who was not a social democrat but was probably the most intelligent American president since Roosevelt or maybe LBJ, depending on how you think of LBJ. The trick is to find one and get the rich people who run the Democratic party to back that person with all their force.
posted by Frowner at 11:54 AM on December 3, 2017 [47 favorites]


The Republicans that hate him and hate this nonsense are honestly kind of...disorganized and tired. We don’t have the motivation to be active in our local Republican clubs this year, or to volunteer for positions, or spend our money and time on Republicans.

This may be a stupid question, but why are the people supposedly against everything the GOP stands for and has clearly done for a very long time even contemplating continuing to support them at this point? The leopards just get to keep relying on their base of support from people who don't reeeeeally want theirs and everyone else's faces to be eaten, but are still for some unfathomable reason still pro-leopard.

Leave the leopards! Experiment with non-leopard, still relatively decent and salvageable parties!
posted by Cheerwell Maker at 12:02 PM on December 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


"The answer is that Republicans are pushing the tax cut at breakneck speed precisely because they know they are probably going to lose next year and in 2020 as well. The tax cut, once enacted, however, will bind the hands of Democrats for years to come, forcing them to essentially follow a Republican agenda of deficit reduction and prevent any action on a positive Democratic program. The result will be a steady erosion of support for Democrats that will put Republicans back in power within a few election cycles."

This is exactly the sort of moderate defeatism I was arguing against in my previous comment. Democrats' hands are only bound if they pre-accept that they can never pass tax hikes, and that they must do everything in their power to eke out a few more years of majority. But the latter is virtually impossible: if Democrats win the House, Senate and Presidency, within 2 years or at most 4, Republicans will win back at least one of the chambers with virtual certainty, so trying to moderate in an effort to maintain power (and for what??) is a fool's errand. The Democrats' hands are only bound by this twin assumption that they can never raise taxes, and that everything must be as moderate as possible to maintain majorities. But if they just accept that the latter is impossible and the former just a product of cowardice or the continued influence of centrists who don't actually want liberal policies, they could just play a different game, upend the pro-conservative/anti-democratic Senate rules, and pass some significant legislation that doesn't just undo the Republican tax bill, but does much much more. Worst-case scenario, they go down in electoral flames and now Republicans have to try to take away universal healthcare, paid family leave and child care, etc, etc. But if we do assume that taxes can never be raised without untenable electoral losses, those losses will be both guaranteed, and irrelevant.
posted by chortly at 12:07 PM on December 3, 2017 [65 favorites]


I'd agree with others: this isn't a grand Reichstag Fire kind of plot, but rather it's a pretty safe assumption that (for many of them, bolstered by Roy Moore's even polling) they will never lose to a Democrat. This is largely because of voter disenfranchisement and gerrymandering. And even more-so because they rode the Southern Strategy tiger for half a century. Therefore, they have to win their primary and then that's it. The donors were threatening to pull funding if the GOP didn't pass a wealthy favorable tax bill, so they did, come hell or high water. If there is a coup to speak of, then it's already happened.

I think we're seeing a situation where about 33% of the country (that is, trump's floor of support) effectively runs the show - a 33% that is essentially an anchor around our collective necks at this point. It's the same thing that explains why an unqualified, sexual assaultant, career criminal, with an oppo file that indicated ties to foreign entities is now their president, and won their nomination. They built an incredibly effective weapon through culture war ideology and electoral fraud, and now it's starting to bite them as much as it's been biting us.
posted by codacorolla at 12:11 PM on December 3, 2017 [15 favorites]


but why are the people supposedly against everything the GOP stands for and has clearly done for a very long time even contemplating continuing to support them at this point?

A lot of them are single-issue voters and that issue is abortion. This may be a deciding factor in the Roy Moore race -- because white churchgoing/evangelical folk care more about outlawing abortion than the molestation of children. And the Moores of the world know this. From the article:
Understanding the power of the abortion issue, Moore’s wife, Kayla, claimed at a rally that Jones is the real threat to children, because he supports “full-term abortion,” which she defined as “suck[ing] a child’s brains out at the moment before birth.” Such a procedure, however, simply does not exist, as states generally restrict abortions after 24 weeks of pregnancy, except in cases of medical necessity.
This is not to say that all Republicans are against legal abortion by any means. But the ones who are against it tend to be clustered in regions where their votes are disproportionately powerful, and this is the thing that many of them care about, above all else, even more than their lives and the lives of their families being destroyed by all the other Republican policies. And these beliefs seem historically pretty entrenched, so there's no good way of coaxing them out of it, even as the leopards eat their faces right off.
posted by halation at 12:11 PM on December 3, 2017 [36 favorites]


I've been thinking a lot recently about this article, which I think was posted here earlier but I can't find it at the moment.

For elites, politics is driven by ideology. For voters, it’s not
In a telling bit of research, they scoured massive election surveys to see what bearing self-reported ideology had on policy opinions on issues ranging from LGBTQ rights to health care to foreign aid to Social Security. The answer, across years ranging from 1992 to 2009, was basically none — “ideological differences,” they reported, “have little influence over opinion on immigration, affirmative action, capital punishment, gun control, Social Security, health insurance, the deficit, foreign aid, tax reform, and the war on terrorism.”

There were two glaring exceptions: LGBTQ rights and abortion. But the exceptions were so stark that Kinder and Kalmoe wondered if they were missing something, and they had a theory of what it might be: religion. So they ran the data again, “adding measures of faith, religiosity (the degree to which Americans take their faith seriously), and group sentiments to the model.” Once they did that, the effect of ideology all but disappeared.

[...]

One consistent finding in Kinder and Kalmoe’s research is that party identification bests ideological identification. Most people are a Republican or a Democrat before they are a conservative or a liberal. And most people will stick with their party long after they’ve abandoned their ideology.

[...]

This theory makes a prediction: If party identification is stronger than ideological identification, then as parties change their ideological identities, their loyalists will change with them, rather than abandoning them. And that’s a lot closer to what we see. The exception is high-information voters, who keep their party identification and ideological identification linked.
posted by cybertaur1 at 12:30 PM on December 3, 2017 [24 favorites]


> This theory makes a prediction: If party identification is stronger than ideological identification, then as parties change their ideological identities, their loyalists will change with them, rather than abandoning them. And that’s a lot closer to what we see. The exception is high-information voters, who keep their party identification and ideological identification linked.

This article could be used as grounds to judge people — a reaction like "tut, tut! All those low-information voters out there, not behaving the way I'd like! So irrational!"

However, it can also be used as a strategy blueprint. If what people believe is driven by the ideological platforms of the major parties, then taking control of the platform of a major party is a way to sculpt the beliefs of the population as a whole, even if the ideas of the group doing the takeover are well outside the mainstream.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:49 PM on December 3, 2017 [33 favorites]


Holder hits back at Trump: The FBI’s reputation is not in 'tatters'
Former Obama Attorney General Eric Holder fired back at President Trump’s claim that the FBI’s reputation is in “tatters,” saying there’s more integrity at the agency than there is in the White House.

“Nope. Not letting this go. The FBI’s reputation is not in ‘tatters,’” Holder tweeted Sunday. “It’s composed of the same dedicated men and women who have always worked there and who do a great, apolitical job.”

“You’ll find integrity and honesty at FBI headquarters and not at 1600 Penn Ave right now.”
posted by Barack Spinoza at 12:56 PM on December 3, 2017 [31 favorites]


Stop me if you've heard this one before:
The 36-year-old, who has been tasked with leading the administration’s efforts to broker a Middle East peace accord, also said that his boss has not yet made his mind on moving the US embassy to Jerusalem or recognizing the city as Israel’s capital.

“The president is going to make his decision,” Kushner said to a crowd at the Brookings Institution’s annual Saban Forum. “He’s still looking at a lot of different facts.”

But seriously, folks ...
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:58 PM on December 3, 2017 [11 favorites]


> If party identification is stronger than ideological identification, then as parties change their ideological identities, their loyalists will change with them, rather than abandoning them. And that’s a lot closer to what we see. The exception is high-information voters, who keep their party identification and ideological identification linked.

If that were true, the Republican Party's southern strategy never would have worked. Old-school racist southern Democratic voters would still be loyal Democrats. Progressive Republicans would never have supported FDR and the new deal, and they never would have switched their party affiliation. And Doug Jones would not be tied with Moore in Alabama.
posted by nangar at 1:12 PM on December 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


That's their go-to negotiating style and it's so amateurish and transparent by now. "Eh, yeah, we've been thinking of fucking your shit all up, haven't really decided. Anyway, unrelated, let's talk about this other thing." Same with kicking the Palestinians out of DC, and every time they leak to the press how they're considering firing someone.
posted by ctmf at 1:12 PM on December 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


>> > If party identification is stronger than ideological identification, then as parties change their ideological identities, their loyalists will change with them, rather than abandoning them. And that’s a lot closer to what we see. The exception is high-information voters, who keep their party identification and ideological identification linked.

> If that were true, the Republican Party's southern strategy never would have worked. Old-school racist southern Democratic voters would still be loyal Democrats.

So I think the case of the long slow move of southern white supremacists from the democrats to the dixiecrats to the republicans is supporting evidence for this model, rather than counterevidence. If you look at the full article, you'll see two distinct effects discussed:
  1. The effect of party identification on ideology (with the argument being that what people believe is driven by what party they identify with, rather than vice-versa)
  2. The effect of social groups on party identification (with the argument being that we tend to identify with the party that the people around us identify with).
These two threads come together in this paragraph midway through:
We choose our party for a variety of reasons — chief among them being the preferences of our family members, core groups, and community — and then we sign on to their platforms. In this telling, write Kinder and Kalmoe, “ideological identification is primarily an effect, not a cause, of a person’s political views.”
Despite the best efforts of southern white supremacist leaders to detach southern white supremacists from the democratic party, it took the better part of a half-century to complete the shift. Recall that Strom Thurmond first ran for President as a Dixiecrat in 1948, but that even into the 1990s — well past Nixon's invention of the Republican "southern strategy"— there were still southern white supremacist deadenders in the Democratic Party. The influence of the white supremacist rank-and-file's pre-existing social groups caused them to stay on with the Democrats well after the white supremacist ideology remained welcome there; changing peoples' party identification required changing peoples' social groups, not their ideologies.

If people picked their parties based on their ideologies rather than picking their ideologies based on their parties, white supremacist southerners would have jumped ship from the Democratic Party en masse sometime during the Truman administration. Instead, white supremacist leaders had to both build up a base of support within the institutional Republican Party and also get elites within southern white supremacist communities — foremost among them leaders in white supremacist churches — to persuade their followers toward identifying with the Republicans rather than the Democrats. This took basically forever, even though it was just a switch from one label to another for most of the people thereby persuaded.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:36 PM on December 3, 2017 [36 favorites]


>> This week was a good example. Trump raised the level of crazy. We in the media took the bait. And you, dear reader, encouraged us.

> I asked my digital colleagues for the top 25 pieces that appeared on The Post’s website this week before the Flynn news broke. ...the items were dominated by Trump insanity: his Muslim-video retweets...his “unhinged” behavior and his veering past “guardrails” of what’s acceptable.

But in the top 25 were only two about the monstrous tax bill as it made its way through the Senate this week.

Hey I mean, why even run a paper. Celebrity gossip gets so many more views.

On a slightly less sarcastic note, I can't help but wondering if there isn't a way to make tax bill news (and similar items) somewhat more compelling. More human drama? (Or is that just horserace coverage?) More protests? (Or does that just get spun as Look At The Ridiculous Liberals?) More human interest case studies? (...of who will be hurt by a bill that got written in like two days? Is that possible?) More dramatic headlines? I don't know, but I do know that it felt like the story got under-covered compared to its importance.

This is also why I'm bothered by the new focus on Russia. On the one hand, I appreciate a break from gnashing my teeth about taxes. On the other, it makes me start to relax and think that Mueller is going to solve all of this for us, rather than continuing to work out how to take back control of Congress. No criticism is implied to anyone who has been posting Russia news (it is important, and we all have to find the psychological sweet spot where we're adequately motivated but not paralyzed with despair or rage). But I wish the focus of the journalists I follow on Twitter hadn't shifted as much to Russia as it has. Mueller's work will continue whether or not the progressive populace is following each new development. But I keep wondering if there isn't a way to derail the tax bill if enough people stayed incensed and focused.
posted by salvia at 2:04 PM on December 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


* BTW speaking of future possible crises - if the time ever does come, how would we physically get donnie out of the WH? Remember, when he said this BEFORE the election?

Assuming there is electoral and/or some sort of impeachment or 25th Amendment prompting: at some point, somebody will tell him in a no-shit-really tone that the Capitol Police or the Secret Service will literally lay hands on him and drag him out. Because you know some of them are plain sick of him already.

When he has to face the likelihood of facing physical danger of any sort, he'll fold. He'll immediately pivot to wanting to leave as soon as possible, good riddance, nobody's fair to me, I'm happier in my tower, blah blah blah. The task is about getting us to the point where there's a legal and procedural cause to get him thrown out.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:10 PM on December 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


You don’t sell this to voters as a promise you’re going to raise taxes. You sell it to them that you’re going to roll back the tax hike on the middle class. You run ads with real world examples - the teacher that doesn’t get a deduction for school supplies, the student who can’t deduct interest on their loans, etc. Run ads asking people if they’re ok with their taxes going up so Richie Rich can operate his jet tax free. Etc. There’s so many fronts you can hit these guys on come campaign season. This is the biggest avenue of attack. Messaging is important, but framing the message is as well.
posted by azpenguin at 2:12 PM on December 3, 2017 [51 favorites]


I keep wondering if there isn't a way to derail the tax bill if enough people stayed incensed and focused.

Yes, and one more thing, which is crucial: enough people must be willing to show up, in person, and refuse to back down.

There is no such thing as a government that is accountable to the people, when the people will not take whatever action is necessary to hold their government accountable. Full stop.
posted by perspicio at 2:21 PM on December 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


Ho ho ho, look who found a lump of coal in their stocking.

Kevin Drum, Mother Jones: R&D Tax Credit Falls Victim to Republican Vote-Payoff-Orama
... Just hours before the Senate voted 51-49 to pass the bill, which included about $1.4 trillion in tax cuts, Republicans decided to preserve the corporate alternative minimum tax [at 20%] instead of repealing it as planned. ... But the corporate rate is now proposed to be 20%, so the overhaul could drive many companies into the AMT—and force them to lose some of their breaks in the process. [...]

Robert Murray [CEO of Murray Energy Corp., an Ohio-based firm and the largest privately held U.S. coal-mining company], said the Senate tax plan would raise his tax bill by $60 million. “What the Senate did, in their befuddled mess, is drove me out of business and then bragged about the fact that they got some tax reform passed,” Mr. Murray said Sunday. “This is not job creation. This is not stimulating income. This is driving a whole sector of our community into nonexistence.”
Seriously, read the whole thing. The unintended consequences of this travesty will take a while to sort out, and they will be a whole series of nasty surprises.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:26 PM on December 3, 2017 [91 favorites]


‘I don’t think it’s going to help’: In a pro-Trump area, many voters are skeptical of GOP tax plan --
STERLING HEIGHTS, Mich. — On a busy weeknight at the 5 Star Lanes bowling alley in this Detroit suburb that voted heavily for President Trump, there was little excitement about the Republican plan to cut taxes.

A 60-year-old retiree bowling with a group of girlfriends said she’s tired of the middle class having to pay more so the wealthy can become even wealthier. A few lanes away, a middle-aged woman with frizzy gray hair said that the more she hears about the plan, the more she hates it [emphasis added]....

Here in the Detroit suburbs and across the country, many voters say they view the Republican tax plan as simply a giveaway for the rich that will benefit only a small number of people in the long run....

In October, a CBS News poll found that 70 percent of Americans didn’t think the tax bill should even be a top priority.
Given that the more people learn, the more they hate it, it seems strategic to keep the focus here for awhile, not move on to the next battle (as the Trump Tax Scam website recommends). Why not encourage Indivisible groups, especially ones in vulnerable Republican house districts (shoutout to Indivisible Manteca holding it down in #CA10!), to try to get their reps to try to stop the House from passing it as is, force further debate during reconciliation, and so on. Would Denham change his vote? Probably not. But I'd love to see more bad local press for House Republicans while the issue is current.
posted by salvia at 2:30 PM on December 3, 2017 [39 favorites]


My Rep, Pete Sessions, no relation to klukluxkeebler, is head of the house committee that goes into conference to try and reconcile the two bills. I am leaving voicemail at all the numbers that answer. Call your reps, we may not be finished yet. Do not give up. Resist.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:40 PM on December 3, 2017 [18 favorites]


Robert Murray [CEO of Murray Energy Corp., an Ohio-based firm and the largest privately held U.S. coal-mining company], said the Senate tax plan would raise his tax bill by $60 million. “What the Senate did, in their befuddled mess, is drove me out of business and then bragged about the fact that they got some tax reform passed,” Mr. Murray said Sunday. “This is not job creation. This is not stimulating income. This is driving a whole sector of our community into nonexistence.”

If giving Robert Murray a tax break provides even one single job whatsoever I will register Republican when I become a citizen.
posted by Talez at 2:45 PM on December 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


If giving Robert Murray a tax break provides even one single job whatsoever I will register Republican when I become a citizen.

Murray creates lots of jobs...for rescue workers.
posted by kewb at 2:48 PM on December 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


And how do I know it doesn't provide one single job? Because true job creators don't pay taxes. It all gets deducted because the money gets plowed back into the business as expenses, payroll, capital investment. If you're complaining about a tax hike it means you're not investing it, you're taking it either as income or dividends in which case, eat shit, Bob.
posted by Talez at 2:49 PM on December 3, 2017 [33 favorites]


‘I don’t think it’s going to help’: In a pro-Trump area, many voters are skeptical of GOP tax plan --

I think the best part of this article is right here, and it fights right in with this discussion about creating jobs:
Getting lunch in the mall food court that afternoon was Mike Papastamatis, a 33-year-old dentist who is a partner in a local practice and expects his tax rate to fall about 10 points if the “pass-through” deduction is increased. While that will benefit him, he said the practice is fully staffed right now and there’s no need to expand.
The dentist gets a tax cut, but none of it will go to hiring more employees because he doesn't need or want any.

Meanwhile, do you know what does hurt dentists? Millions of kids not having dental coverage anymore because Congress failed to renew CHIP.
posted by zachlipton at 2:52 PM on December 3, 2017 [92 favorites]


How can I figure out who in the Senate and House will be on the conference committee for this bill? I would like to call if they are my own reps, and encourage friends to call if they are not.

Also, I have no idea how the committees are chosen; will they contain any Dems, or any Republicans who voted against the bills?
posted by nat at 3:01 PM on December 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


This is largely because of voter disenfranchisement and gerrymandering.

Computer . . . explain the Democrats' plan to mitigate these legal cheating mechanisms in the 2018 elections.
posted by petebest at 3:40 PM on December 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Hopefully optimistic computer to petebest, Do you like apples?
posted by cmfletcher at 3:47 PM on December 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Slate's Dahlia Lithwick asks, Is It Too Late for Robert Mueller to Save Us?
Democrats don’t like giving up on their institutions easily, and the Mueller investigation has served as both the best and the worst manifestation of that alluring Democratic reasonableness. So long as he is working away, filing documents and convening grand juries, nobody needs to take to the streets. But as the year has progressed, it’s become clear that absolutely nothing will persuade Trump supporters and Republicans in Congress that it’s time to disavow the president—not lying, not spilling state secrets, not abject failure in crisis management, and not openly performed corruption. Given that reality, it often feels like it wouldn’t be enough for Mueller to hand us a smoking gun and an indictment.[...]

I’ve been thinking that America is operating along two parallel legal tracks. On one track is the chug-chug of law and order, as embodied in the Mueller investigation. On the other is the daily mayhem and denialism and circus-performing of the present White House. I tend to worry that with every passing day, the circus is training us to ignore, discredit, devalue, or disbelieve what’s happening on the other track. By the time the Mueller train gets to its final station, the norms that would ordinarily lead to impeachment proceedings might be tiny piles of yellow legal pad–shaped cinders. And then it really would be time to take to the streets.[...]

Until and unless Trump either fires Mueller or Mueller indicts Trump, those two parallel tracks can coexist, so long as the people on each of those trains refuse to acknowledge that the other train actually exists. At this moment when all options remain open, we should accept the possibility that Mueller may come to represent the highest and most binding expression of law and order in America. We also must acknowledge the reality that the highest and most binding expression of law and order in America might not matter enough, to enough people, to bring the Trump train to a stop.
As a legal analyst and commentator, Lithwick does not indulge in click-bait pessimism, much less performative despair. Nor does she traffic in keyboard radicalism and Aeron chair protest. Her writing about how perturbed she is after this past week's events may be a signal the so-called #TrumpTrain has too much momentum for anything other than a total wreck.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:02 PM on December 3, 2017 [47 favorites]


Keep in mind that voter disengagement is a much larger factor than disenfranchisement. We should absolutely do everything we can to combat voter disenfranchisement; it is evil. But the number of people who are disenfranchised is considerably lower than the number of people who just don't show up so we should devote a lot of resources towards the latter group.
posted by Justinian at 4:04 PM on December 3, 2017 [14 favorites]


tweet: Video of Haim Saban thanking Jared Kushner for instructing #Flynn to call Kislyak on Dec 22nd & undermine Obama efforts on Israel at UNSC then. 1 of 2 calls that got Flynn in trouble with Mueller. Saban: “nothing illegal”.

[Buzzfeed news correspondent, about same event] Tweet: Haim Saban expresses appreciation to Jared Kushner for his efforts to undermine Obama at the UN on Israel before Trump took office. “As far as I know there was nothing illegal there, “ said Saban.
posted by AFABulous at 4:06 PM on December 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


You don’t sell this to voters as a promise you’re going to raise taxes. You sell it to them that you’re going to roll back the tax hike on the middle class.

And as part of how to pay for single payer healthcare, free college, jobs programs, UBI, a broad progressive platform. It's all the same pitch, roll back the tax cuts for the rich to pay for a real working class reform of the economy. You can't say you're raising people's taxes just to close the GOP created deficit, tell them what you're going to do for them, and don't fucking mention the deficit, because the Republicans just proved it doesn't fucking matter. Stop entertaining the idea that it does, and just do things for people again. Big ones, labeled as "Brought to you by the Democrats".
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:06 PM on December 3, 2017 [35 favorites]


Context: this was at the Saban Forum. Haim Saban is "an Israeli-American media proprietor, investor, philanthropist, musician, record, film & television producer." according to Wikipedia. And Clinton donor.
posted by AFABulous at 4:07 PM on December 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Well I mean when we're talking about why people don't read political news in newspapers, have you (media elites) ever considered it might be THE WAY YOU COVER IT? The both sides-ism and horserace bullshit TURNS PEOPLE OFF. When that's how you frame your news, every article reads like: "Republicans did a thing they claim is good. Democrats claim it is bad. Also Democrats did a thing and Republicans are upset."

That's FUCKING BORING. Why do people watch Fox News? Because it's many things, but it's not boring both sides-ism. They present heroes and villains and get people engaged. It's blatant propaganda, which I don't suggest we need more of, but maybe actual facts and hard-hitting stories and educating people about which side is correct about reality would get people to pay attention. As it is, we can all predict your stories without bothering to read them
posted by threeturtles at 4:14 PM on December 3, 2017 [27 favorites]


Also, I have no idea how the committees are chosen; will they contain any Dems, or any Republicans who voted against the bills?

Senate procedure [pdf warning]:
Although the Senate authorizes the presiding officer to name conferees, the presiding officer actually exercises no discretion. Instead, he or she presents to the Senate a list that has usually been prepared by the chair and ranking minority Member of the standing committee with jurisdiction over the bill. Also, the Senate conferees are usually drawn exclusively from the membership of that committee. The committee chair, in consultation with the ranking Member, normally decides on the number of Senators from each party who will serve on the conference committee. The chair selects the majority party conferees, and the ranking minority Member selects a proportional number of conferees from among his or her committee colleagues. Committee seniority is an important but not controlling factor in the selection of committee members to serve on the conference
posted by solotoro at 4:15 PM on December 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


So much winning. The president of the FBI Agents Association, an organization of 12,000 current and former FBI agents, responds to Donny.
“Every day, FBI Special Agents put their lives on the line to protect the American public from national security and criminal threats. Agents perform these duties with unwavering integrity and professionalism and a focus on complying with the law and the Constitution.”

”This is why the FBI continues to be the premier law enforcement agency in the world. FBI Agents are dedicated to their mission; suggesting otherwise is simply false.”
posted by chris24 at 4:28 PM on December 3, 2017 [37 favorites]


may be a signal the so-called #TrumpTrain has too much momentum for anything other than a total wreck.

I've said since last year this is going to be a total wreck, and yet I believe they're all going to jail. The problem is people thinking only one or the other is going to happen. You might live through that car wreck, people might rescue you and eventually you'll be OK, but it aint going to be neat and pretty.
posted by bongo_x at 4:30 PM on December 3, 2017 [11 favorites]


I saw the recent articles about Trump's plan to pack the Federal Courts and thought "this was the Republican Party's plan back when they were blocking Obama appointments. So how is it that 10 months into Trump's term he's just starting to get around to it now?" Any other GOP President would be halfway through the process right now... Trump's incompetence and being distracted by small shiny things is actually saving us (temporarily) from some (but not all) of the worst that the Trump Administration can do. I still believe it's too early for the perp walk; the damage he can currently do to the Republican Party over the next few months is still greater than the damage he can do to the nation.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:46 PM on December 3, 2017


There sure are a lot of "normally"s and "usually"s in that paragraph on Senate procedure. I'm feeling a lot less confident in those words these days.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 4:52 PM on December 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


We also must acknowledge the reality that the highest and most binding expression of law and order in America might not matter enough, to enough people, to bring the Trump train to a stop.

Or it matters enough, to enough people, that we elect a Democratic-controlled Congress in 11 months and that Congress impeaches and removes Trump.

With enough Republicans with a newly-rediscovered respect for the rule of law to go along. Just because Republicans aren't abandoning him now doesn't mean they wouldn't abandon him then.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:58 PM on December 3, 2017


Ahead of his Colbert appearance tomorrow night, NYT, Billy Bush: Yes, Donald Trump, You Said That
He said it. “Grab ‘em by the pussy.”

Of course he said it. And we laughed along, without a single doubt that this was hypothetical hot air from America’s highest-rated bloviator. Along with Donald Trump and me, there were seven other guys present on the bus at the time, and every single one of us assumed we were listening to a crass standup act. He was performing. Surely, we thought, none of this was real.

We now know better.
posted by zachlipton at 5:13 PM on December 3, 2017 [41 favorites]


(I pullquoted the decentish part at the top of the op-ed, but Billy Bush's redemption tour makes me cringe very much.)
posted by zachlipton at 5:29 PM on December 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


Really, Billy? Most of us men know that was no joke; that's the way it is: "When you're a star they let you do it". And the ones who laughed along knew it was real, and Trump was never smart enough to come up with "a crass standup act", but he was never someone who you didn't let do - and say - whatever he wants.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:31 PM on December 3, 2017 [22 favorites]


How the Republicans Broke Congress

Well, no shit Sherlock
But this opinion piece might be an indication that the bothsides-ism is finally facing reality.
Eleven years ago, we published a book called “The Broken Branch,” which we subtitled “How Congress Is Failing America and How to Get It Back on Track.” Embedded in that subtitle were two assumptions: first, that Congress as an institution — which is to say, both parties, equally — is at fault; and second, that the solution is readily at hand. In 2017, the Republicans’ scandalous tax bill is only the latest proof that both assumptions are wrong.

Which is not to say that we were totally off base in 2006. We stand by our assessment of the political scene at the time. What is astounding, and still largely unappreciated, is the unexpected and rapid nature of the decline in American national politics, and how one-sided its cause. If in 2006 one could cast aspersions on both parties, over the past decade it has become clear that it is the Republican Party — as an institution, as a movement, as a collection of politicians — that has done unique, extensive and possibly irreparable damage to the American political system.
IMO, they were totally off base in 2006, and that their book was part of the problem. But if they are waking up in 2017, I will welcome them among the woke.
Reading this article, I realized that one big reason I am not among the NYTimes haters this time round is that I spent the entire Bush years screaming at the so-called main-stream media. It's true they are bad now, but they were so extremely bad back then, and some of the time I was working as a journalist at a publication which pretended to be leftist. I remember writing on our intra that if there was just one more article about Afghan women wearing make-up after the invasion, I'd quit. (In the end, I quit because of a much more damaging racist article, but that's a long story).

And just to complicate things: in the meantime, a lot of the sources I depended on back then have gone totally off-kilter, and I have personally learnt why, because at first I quit upwards into a media management position, and learnt how difficult it is to make ends meet in a business that is mostly driven by advertising. Clicks are what count when it comes to ads, and good reporting is not sought after. It's not at all coincidental that Teen Vogue and BuzzFeed rather than the NYTimes are political forces these days, but I am not smart enough to figure out how we can learn from that.
posted by mumimor at 5:40 PM on December 3, 2017 [55 favorites]


We also must acknowledge the reality that the highest and most binding expression of law and order in America might not matter enough, to enough people, to bring the Trump train to a stop.

Maybe, but the 2018 elections sure as fuck will. If the numbers hold up like they are now (and honestly, what are the odds Trump gets better instead of worse) then he'll prove to be electoral poison, and they'll flee him like rats on a ship to minimize the damage in 2020.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:42 PM on December 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


So much winning. The president of the FBI Agents Association, an organization of 12,000 current and former FBI agents, responds to Donny.

and

Holder hits back at Trump: The FBI’s reputation is not in 'tatters'

Plus:

James Comey
@Comey
“I want the American people to know this truth: The FBI is honest. The FBI is strong. And the FBI is, and always will be, independent.”
Me (June 8, 2017)

and

Preet Bharara
@PreetBharara
Is there a statement from current FBI Director Chris Wray?
posted by Room 641-A at 6:45 PM on December 3, 2017 [20 favorites]


Gerrymander: Rig The Election - a free game (iOS only).
posted by Rumple at 6:46 PM on December 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


Or it matters enough, to enough people, that we elect a Democratic-controlled Congress in 11 months and that Congress impeaches and removes Trump.

Absolutely - that's a battle worth fighting for, to the end. (And tomorrow we can light up the U.S. Capitol Switchboard at 202-224-3121 like a Herald Square store window holiday display.)

With enough Republicans with a newly-rediscovered respect for the rule of law to go along. Just because Republicans aren't abandoning him now doesn't mean they wouldn't abandon him then.

That's the part of the equation that gives me pause. Maybe it's the smash-and-grab tax legislation once the Flynndictment came down, maybe it's the number of Trump-supporters on the Sunday morning political talk shows who then tried to dismiss Flynn as a nothingburger (ranging from fair-weather "independent-minded" senators to full-blown Trumpists). A lot is going to come down to the Alabama election, so I suppose we'll have a better idea in a week and a half's time.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:53 PM on December 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's all the same pitch, roll back the tax cuts for the rich to pay for a real working class reform of the economy.

Pitch it hard as "not raising anyone's tax rates; only removing some of the special exemptions that MILLIONAIRES and MEGA-CORPORATIONS have been getting... we think they've gotten enough of a free ride and it's time for them to start pulling their weight... why should a corporation be able to write off its rent, but you can't?" and so on.

And come up with a campaign about the people who oppose it - "Senator X has never worked an hourly-wage job in his life; he has no idea why this matters to you, and he doesn't care." "Rep X didn't take out loans for his education; his parents bought it for him. He has no idea how to live on a budget that doesn't include four years of free ride at an expensive college."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 7:18 PM on December 3, 2017 [58 favorites]


A lot is going to come down to the Alabama election, and if Jones only comes close in this 'hopelessly Republican/retrograde' state, the official line will be "we dodged a bullet" but privately, the GOP is just going to be running even more scared. I think that 'running scared' attitude is what made the smash-and-grab tax legislation possible, because they didn't dare end their Year of Controlling Everything empty-handed and they had to toss on or toss off something for everybody Republican. And if this results in them getting ALL the campaign money from the Corporations and Uncle Moneybags, one thing the Democratic Party will have is the freedom to do as much class warfare against the .001% as they want (and we've seen proof of some significant fund raising by the 'everybody else' recently).
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:23 PM on December 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Pitch it hard as "not raising anyone's tax rates; only removing some of the special exemptions that MILLIONAIRES and MEGA-CORPORATIONS have been getting... we think they've gotten enough of a free ride and it's time for them to start pulling their weight... why should a corporation be able to write off its rent, but you can't?" and so on.

Heck, you could pitch it as cutting taxes for the middle class. And you'd be right.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:25 PM on December 3, 2017 [11 favorites]


Remember this from the days of The FBI Is Trumpland article last November right before the election? Good times. I agree 100% Sarah.

@SarahHuckabee
When you're attacking FBI agents because you're under criminal investigation, you're losing
posted by chris24 at 7:56 PM on December 3, 2017 [70 favorites]


I'm so old that I remember the head of the FBI, some sort of "Comey" fellow, threw the election to Trump by accusing Hillary Clinton of crimes immediately ahead of the election.

Not a lot of sympathy from the FBI and their leadership here. It is like they made their bed and now they get to lie in its splendor.
posted by pdoege at 8:13 PM on December 3, 2017 [18 favorites]


It'll be interesting to see, once Flynn starts talking and it is reported, how Donnie handles it on Twitter, given the many public statements he's made in the past praising Flynn. He'll probably insist that he always knew Flynn was a liar. And, of course, any video of him praising Flynn might not be him at all.
posted by perhapses at 8:17 PM on December 3, 2017


It's not at all coincidental that Teen Vogue and BuzzFeed rather than the NYTimes are political forces these days, but I am not smart enough to figure out how we can learn from that.

a) when the president has frequent chats with Maggie Haberman, it's hard to call the NYTimes "not a political force", but b) to the extent that it's true, it's gotta have a lot to do with the specific people making decisions there, not the business model. The Washington Post has that business model and they seem to have kept their teeth.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 8:18 PM on December 3, 2017 [15 favorites]


Regarding framing the progressive message, linguist George Lakoff has some thoughts. The problem is getting the Democrats to adopt language like regulations are protections and government spending is investment, but that's what has to happen.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:14 PM on December 3, 2017 [55 favorites]


I'm so old that I remember the head of the FBI, some sort of "Comey" fellow, threw the election to Trump by accusing Hillary Clinton of crimes immediately ahead of the election.

Not to relitigate the election or to spark a long discussion, but I would like to voice something I haven't seen much on this topic.

I disagree that Comey did what he did as an effort to throw the election. I think he did what he did knowing that Trump and Russia planned to attack Hillary's legitimacy after the election they expected to lose (hence the refusal to say they'd respect the results) and he thought the best way to avoid (or at least lessen the legitimacy of) the email thing being used as part of that was to be radically transparent about it and not give them extra ammunition by "hiding" the reopening of the investigation. It certainly didn't help that the NYC office and the NYPD were leaking like sieves, ensuring it would come out either way. Less damaging as an official statement than a leak that could be spun as evidence of a deep state conspiracy.

I can't say it was the right move, but I've seen zero evidence to indicate that Comey in particular timed anything for maximum damage to the Clinton campaign. I wouldn't doubt that certain elements loyal to Guiliani were doing exactly that with their strategic leaking, though.
posted by wierdo at 9:15 PM on December 3, 2017 [23 favorites]


I hope it's not too derail-y to include this opining about Comey... I wrote this on Facebook about a week before he got fired.
I simultaneously believe these two things:

1. Comey's letter in October was a potentially decisive element in the election

2. Comey may have been attempting to act without partisan regard to the consequences of his actions.

Inside the agency I work for we take our nonpartisan mandate very seriously and occasionally have debates about how to interpret it. There's the "agnostic" perspective which tries to ignore the existence of parties. And there's the "balancing" perspective which tries to make sure that our agency's impact on each party is balanced.

A lot of liberals think Comey had his thumb on the scale. I don't deny that Comey's actions had different impacts for different parties- but to treat that fact as conclusive all by itself implicitly buys into the "balancing" perspective. It also assumes a sort of symmetry in the FBI investigations of Clinton and Trump- but my impression is that the investigation of Clinton involved a pretty small and reasonably-well-defined orbit of players, but the investigation of Russian involvement may involve a much larger and much less well-defined set of players (not necessarily even centered on Trump). From the "agnostic" perspective, such different circumstances would merit different treatment.

As an aside, I think that liberals may be particularly prone to the "balancing" perspective because they're used to the idea of trying to balance outcomes in other areas of politics. Cf "race blind" vs. "race conscious", etc.
As a former "agnostic" myself, it's really easy to imagine him trying not to be influenced by who was of which party when he did what he thought he had to do. And while I don't have any links handy to this effect, I believe he did specifically say at one point that he was trying to avoid being influenced in that way.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:26 PM on December 3, 2017 [15 favorites]


Nothing Comey did was in line with FBI policy, if he didn't intentionally throw the election to Trump, he let rogue elements in his own department run roughshod over him dictating his actions to the same effect. He gave a completely out of line political attack statement against Clinton in July while ostensibly closing the investigation without charges, then gave a second statement "reopening" the investigation based on no new evidence days before the election, without any mandate to do so, and in direct violation of decades of DOJ policy against taking action that could influence an election.

You can call that "radical transparency", or you can call it what it was, unprecedented partisan interference in a presidential election by a rogue FBI director. His intent doesn't really matter. He broke every DOJ and FBI policy and guideline in existence, with the effect of throwing an election.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:34 PM on December 3, 2017 [57 favorites]


re: mueller. dogged. professional, experienced. but also tunnel vision, and over-confidence with a *very* marginal case.

i got my doubts about where this ends up.
posted by j_curiouser at 9:38 PM on December 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


Nunes is readying contempt-of-Congress charges on Rod Rosenstein and Chris Wray. It's because Mueller fired an investigator who appeared to be less than impartial, and therefore the investigation is partial and we're all wearing crazy pants and that's why we won't impeach when he fires Mueller. I wish to shit I was making this up.

And it's going to work, because of Benghazi Pizza, amen.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:43 PM on December 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


SNL: "Sorry, KellyAnne, I'm in pouty baby mode. This Flynn investigation has really got me down."
posted by kirkaracha at 9:44 PM on December 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Nunes is readying contempt-of-Congress charges on Rod Rosenstein and Chris Wray. It's because Mueller fired an investigator who appeared to be less than impartial, and therefore the investigation is partial and we're all wearing crazy pants and that's why we won't impeach when he fires Mueller.

Nunes is circumventing his recusal in the House Intelligence Committee's Russia investigation, but it's mainly to play up the Trumpist narrative to the Fox News audience in public (and feed into the Donald's enraged tweets).

CNN: Justice Dept. Offers Up Key Witness In Russia Probe As House Intel Chair Threatens Contempt
In reality, sources familiar with the negotiations tell CNN that despite Nunes' public accusations of "stonewalling," the Justice Department met with Nunes nearly two months ago, and his Intelligence Committee staff members have reviewed -- over the course of the past two months -- highly classified materials regarding the dossier, including significant details on who paid for it, if anyone, and what, if anything, the FBI did to verify its contents.

Indeed, mere hours before Fox News ran its story Wednesday evening, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein -- who has stepped into the shoes of Attorney General Jeff Sessions after he recused himself from all matters related to the FBI's Russia investigation -- had been on the phone with Nunes and agreed to permit House investigators to interview FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe as long as he's not questioned about special counsel Robert Mueller's ongoing Russia investigation.

Nunes escalated the feud over the weekend, accusing the Justice Department of "disingenuousness" and threatening top officials at the department and the FBI with contempt of Congress if they do not meet his subpoena demands by Monday evening.

"We disagree with the Chairman's characterization and will continue to work with congressional committees to provide the information they request consistent with our national security responsibilities," Justice Department spokesperson Sarah Isgur Flores said in a statement Sunday. "The Department has already provided members of (the House Intelligence Committee) and House leadership with several hundred pages of classified documents and multiple briefings -- including, for example, clear answers as to whether any FBI payments were made to a source in question related to the dossier -- and has more recently cleared key witnesses they have requested to testify, including Mr. McCabe, Mr. (Peter) Strzok, and the alleged handler in question."[...]

[T]he sources familiar with Nunes' outstanding requests say that the Justice Department has conveyed that certain highly confidential transcripts he wants simply do not exist and producing other highly confidential raw intelligence reports would likely conflict with the department's national security responsibilities.
Nunes is doing a great deal of public grandstanding, while Rosenstein and Mueller play it cool. Let's hope that's enough.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:00 PM on December 3, 2017 [13 favorites]


Um…

Carol D. Leonnig, John Wagner and Ellen Nakashima, WaPo: Trump lawyer says president knew Flynn had given FBI the same account he gave to vice president
President Trump’s personal lawyer said on Sunday that the president knew in late January that then-national security adviser Michael Flynn had probably given FBI agents the same inaccurate account he provided to Vice President Pence about a call with the Russian ambassador.

Trump lawyer John Dowd said the information was passed to Trump by White House counsel Donald McGahn, who had been warned about Flynn’s statement to the vice president by a senior Justice Department official. The vice president said publicly at the time that Flynn had told him he had not discussed sanctions with the Russian diplomat — a statement disproved by a U.S. intelligence intercept of a phone call between Flynn and then-Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak.

Trump was aware of the issue a couple of weeks before a conversation with then-FBI Director James B. Comey in which Comey said the president asked him if he could be lenient while investigating Flynn, whom Trump had just fired for misleading Pence about the nature of his conversations with the Russian. […]

A person close to the White House involved in the case termed the Saturday tweet “a screw-up of historic proportions” that has “caused enormous consternation in the White House.”

The person, who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to speak candidly, said that White House officials quickly realized the tweet could significantly assist Mueller if he chooses to pursue an obstruction case. The development sparked particular concern because others around Trump weren’t certain that Trump knew Flynn had made a false statement to the FBI at the time he fired him, the person added.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:04 PM on December 3, 2017 [37 favorites]


I don't want to waste more precious space on Comey, but it's really important to avoid future such attacks that we not allow his 2016 behavior to be rehabilitated. This tick-tock from the NYT suggests Comey was just trying to preserve the reputation of the FBI, but this trenchant analysis of that timeline by Kevin Drum (which matches what many others on the left concluded at the time) shows that Comey was deeply asymmetrical in his sensitivity to external criticisms, repeatedly taking fairly extreme actions to avoid criticism from Republicans and right-wing factions within the FBI, while remaining fairly unmoved by increasing complaints from the left. Whatever his intentions, the process was deeply partisan and the effects were substantial.
posted by chortly at 10:07 PM on December 3, 2017 [51 favorites]


Comey was deeply asymmetrical in his sensitivity to external criticisms, repeatedly taking fairly extreme actions to avoid criticism from Republicans and right-wing factions within the FBI, while remaining fairly unmoved by increasing complaints from the left.

Democrats had loud complaining, while right-wing FBI agents in NYC had Weiner's laptop.
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:41 PM on December 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


Mod note: Let's please drop the relitigate-the-Comey side conversation unless there's something new and pertinent about it that we haven't been over a few dozen times already. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:43 PM on December 3, 2017 [18 favorites]


While he's advocated against Jones before in a de facto endorsement of Moore, now Trump has explicitly endorsed a child molestor.

@realDonaldTrump
Democrats refusal to give even one vote for massive Tax Cuts is why we need Republican Roy Moore to win in Alabama. We need his vote on stopping crime, illegal immigration, Border Wall, Military, Pro Life, V.A., Judges 2nd Amendment and more. No to Jones, a Pelosi/Schumer Puppet!
posted by chris24 at 3:40 AM on December 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


Trump & Co. are trying to put the obstruction tweet genie back in the bottle. Also, Axios mentions that one of Nixon's articles of impeachment was obstruction. It was also one of the articles Clinton was impeached for.

And I think I've heard this before. "Well, when the president does it, that means it is not illegal." - R. Nixon

Axios: Exclusive: Trump lawyer claims the "President cannot obstruct justice"
John Dowd, President Trump's outside lawyer, outlined to me a new and highly controversial defense/theory in the Russia probe: A president cannot be guilty of obstruction of justice.

The "President cannot obstruct justice because he is the chief law enforcement officer under [the Constitution's Article II] and has every right to express his view of any case," Dowd claims.

Dowd says he drafted this weekend's Trump tweet that many thought strengthened the case for obstruction: The tweet suggested Trump knew Flynn had lied to the FBI when he was fired, raising new questions about the later firing of FBI Director James Comey.

Dowd: "The tweet did not admit obstruction. That is an ignorant and arrogant assertion."

Why it matters: Trump's legal team is clearly setting the stage to say the president cannot be charged with any of the core crimes discussed in the Russia probe: collusion and obstruction. Presumably, you wouldn't preemptively make these arguments unless you felt there was a chance charges are coming.

One top D.C. lawyer told me that obstruction is usually an ancillary charge rather than a principal one, such as a quid pro quo between the Trump campaign and Russians.

But Dems will fight the Dowd theory. Bob Bauer, an NYU law professor and former White House counsel to President Obama, told me: "It is certainly possible for a president to obstruct justice. The case for immunity has its adherents, but they based their position largely on the consideration that a president subject to prosecution would be unable to perform the duties of the office, a result that they see as constitutionally intolerable."

Remember: The Articles of Impeachment against Nixon began by saying he "obstructed, and impeded the administration of justice."
posted by chris24 at 3:48 AM on December 4, 2017 [61 favorites]


Tomayto, tomahto. Whether you call it obstruction or not, the President of the United States still has a duty to take care to faithfully execute the laws of the land. If he is wilfully impeding and subverting a lawful instigation, that's not faithful execution, and he can be impeached on those grounds alone, or, as previously discussed herein, under any grounds that the House deem as high crimes or misdemeanors, whether or not they fall under any criminal statute.
posted by xigxag at 5:45 AM on December 4, 2017 [18 favorites]


Well the only people who can decide what's chargeable are Congress. I'm pretty sure they're ready to run with the optics of "won't impeach someone worse than Nixon" to keep the paint huffers on side. Worst case scenario, they drag out Pence to every vote post-2018 and they win back the house in 2020.
posted by Talez at 6:21 AM on December 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


So, his argument is basically, “L'êtat, c'est moi”?
posted by acb at 6:25 AM on December 4, 2017 [29 favorites]


In Taking Stock, Pt. 1: The Race for Russia, Josh Marshall of TPM details how the transition team and US Intelligence Community raced against each other to achieve their ends in the Russian affair--with the transition team scrambling to reassure Russia that the sanctions would not last, while the FBI et al. started going hard to hold Flynn accountable.
We see Flynn’s covert communications with Ambassador Kislyak; we see the escalation of the FBI’s scrutiny of Flynn; we know other top Trump officials, like Jared Kushner, were meeting with Kislyak and others and also possibly trying to execute financial transactions with Russian government officials. It’s all sort of a jumble. But the logic of events only really comes into focus when we realize that there was a sort of race taking place between the Trump team’s effort to arrange a rapid rapprochement with Russia in the first weeks of January and February and a mix of the intelligence community, the national security apparatus and the press piecing together what had happened during the 2016 election. Imagine it as a starting pistol firing off on the morning of November 9th, with both teams racing to get more of their critical work done by the end of January.

Since this rapid settling of accounts with Russia is no longer the focus or at least at the forefront of coverage, we need to refresh our memories of exactly what was intended. The Trump transition planned to move rapidly in its first days and weeks in office to engineer a dramatic reshuffling of policy toward Russia, in essence a grand bargain which would start with lifting the December 2016 sanctions as well as those imposed in March 2014 for the annexation of Crimea. But it wouldn’t end there. It was also to include a basic reorientation of policy in the Middle East (a policy of close collaboration with Russia in Syria and Iraq/ISIS) and at least some shift in US policy toward Europe and the EU. [...]

What matters for our purposes is that only days after the inauguration the two trains were colliding – the investigators and the press were catching up with the Trump team’s efforts and about to upend them. Two days after that, January 26th, Yates showed up at the White House telling the White House Counsel that Flynn was in legal jeopardy and a security risk from blackmail by Russia. We don’t know this for a fact but it seems highly likely that President Trump learned of this immediately. Yates returned the following day, the 27th. That afternoon President Trump asked FBI Director James Comey to join him for dinner at the White House and asked him to pledge his loyalty – a request to which Comey seemed to respond to with an awkward demurral. Days later Yates was fired, notionally for refusing to enforce the immigration ban but perhaps also for these visits.

Despite the claim that Flynn had gone rogue and that Vice President Pence was lied to, details that emerged in the Flynn plea documents make clear that Flynn’s discussions with Kislyak were widely discussed among President Trump’s top advisors. Pence almost certainly knew about them, though we as yet have no direct proof of this. Events were moving rapidly. A string of denials about Flynn’s conversations with Kislyak were hit with a rush of leaks that refuted each in turn. By February 13th Flynn was out. The next day President Trump asked Comey to drop the investigation into his activities. Comey politely refused. Events were moving quickly and badly.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 6:46 AM on December 4, 2017 [30 favorites]


he can be impeached on [...] any grounds that the House deem as high crimes or misdemeanors, whether or not they fall under any criminal statute.

Yes, the House, that bastion of enlightenment and integrity.

And we, the people, by whose eternal vigilance said integrity is assured.

Pro tip: It takes a long time to turn the ship of state.

No, no! Steer up, stupid!
posted by perspicio at 6:50 AM on December 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
Democrats refusal to give even one vote for massive Tax Cuts is why we need Republican Roy Moore

GOP 2018: Vote for the pedophile so he can give your health-care and infrastructure money to billionaires!

Heckuva job, GOP. You've invented strategies that defy reason and still get the base. That's restaurant-quality evil.
posted by petebest at 6:52 AM on December 4, 2017 [78 favorites]


So, his argument is basically, “L'êtat, c'est moi”?

Après moi, le covfefe.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 7:02 AM on December 4, 2017 [96 favorites]


Spicer said a while ago that all Tweets are considered to be from the mouth of El Presidente. If they are now claiming that some tweets are written without the knowledge and consent of Trump, can the Dems ask the courts to compel the disclosure of who has written all past tweets and that all future tweets carry indicators of who wrote them?
posted by PenDevil at 7:05 AM on December 4, 2017 [37 favorites]


In August, ProPublica released a report excoriating the law enforcement response (or really, lack of one) at Charlottesville. Today, the city released the results of an independent investigation that essentially confirms their reporting, with a lot of damning evidence. From ProPublica's Twitter feed:
Today Charlottesville, VA released the results of an independent investigation into the police handling of the deadly white supremacist rallies in that city. The 220-page report reaches the same conclusion we did back in August. The report is devastating, detailing myriad failures by state and local police. It faults state and local police for their passivity and inaction in the face of widespread violence. State and local police failed to plan adequately for the event—nor did they prevent people from bringing pepper spray, knives, clubs, and bats to the rally. Dept of Homeland Security had been circulating intel bulletins abt the potential for bloodshed at white supremacist events since at least Sept 2016. Here’s one obtained by the Center for Constitutional Rights and Color of Change. Deviating from typical crowd-control practices, police failed to separate the white supremacists from counter-protesters—and this made physical clashes inevitable. Afterwards, Virginia State Police misled the public and media about what really happened. ProPublica obtained more than 900 pages of VSP documents. The records include misleading statements made by [Virginia state Police] spokesperson Corinne Geller.
[...]
Bottom line: what we saw in August is backed up by today’s report. And smarter policing might have prevented at least some of the bloodshed.
Yet another example where police are "mysteriously" absent or inattentive that ended with activists brutally attacked and murdered by white supremacists. And that's without knowing who among the law enforcement community present at Charlottesville are themselves white supremacists.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:11 AM on December 4, 2017 [61 favorites]


Today's Resist tweet text to my house rep who is a D:
-----------------------------------
Urging you to vote NO on this travesty of a tax bill.

Perhaps you could remind your colleagues on both sides of the aisle that 100% of those seats are up in 2018. Many will be voted out. And those voted out will then be on this side of the door. Maybe those sunsetting tax cuts for the 99% might look a bit differently when they are suddenly also yours.

Are the next 10 months worth that deal to be thrown under the bus with the rest of us?

Fight the good fight, vote NO.
-----------------------------------
posted by yoga at 7:21 AM on December 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


@keithboykin (CNN)
So Kushner was essentially working for Israel, Michael Flynn was working for Turkey, Paul Manafort was working for Ukraine, and Trump was working for Russia. But, hey, America First, right?
posted by chris24 at 7:22 AM on December 4, 2017 [123 favorites]


Despite pledge, Trump company works with a foreign entity. Again. (Anita Kumar, McClatchy)
A construction company owned in part by the governments of Saudi Arabia and South Korea plans to build a Trump-branded luxury resort development in Indonesia despite a vow from Donald Trump that his family business would not make any deals with foreign government entities while he serves as president.

Trump’s partner, MNC Land, recently entered into a preliminary agreement with Posco E&C Indonesia to become the main contractor for the first phase of the development — billed in promotional material as a “Trump Community” that includes a Disney-like theme park, a six-star hotel and a golf course
Welcome to Room 101!
posted by Room 641-A at 7:26 AM on December 4, 2017 [36 favorites]


The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday let stand a Texas ruling that said the right to a marriage license did not entitle same-sex couples to spousal benefits under employee insurance plans.
posted by Annika Cicada at 8:09 AM on December 4, 2017 [51 favorites]


And smarter policing might have prevented at least some of the bloodshed.

Policing has absolutely nothing to do with the prevention of bloodshed.
posted by phearlez at 8:09 AM on December 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday let stand a Texas ruling that said the right to a marriage license did not entitle same-sex couples to spousal benefits under employee insurance plans.

Unholy fuck, that's a separate post right there. Oh Annika Cicada, so sorry to hear that terrible terrible news.
posted by Bella Donna at 8:13 AM on December 4, 2017 [51 favorites]



The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday let stand a Texas ruling that said the right to a marriage license did not entitle same-sex couples to spousal benefits under employee insurance plans.

Oh, son of a bitch, fucking hell, fucking hell--that means that the Lege's law on (for example) not extending spousal benefits to anyone whose marriage the State of Texas doesn't recognize might yet hold up. That's second class citizen status for all of us and the door wide fucking open for my reality a few years ago of being married on a federal level, single on the state level, and married on the municipal level such that anyone who asked me for my marital status had to be questioned thoroughly on what law or rule they were trying to comply with. Of course no one fucking knows that when they're handling company policy, so I got to be the Specialest of All Special Snowflakes for a while there.

Fucking hell. That's the worst news I've heard in a long time, and it'd be nice if it hadn't come literally within a month of my partner's diagnosis with an incurable degenerative balance and hearing illness.
posted by sciatrix at 8:14 AM on December 4, 2017 [110 favorites]


Writing articles about Supreme Court rulings with no identification of the case name should be grounds for a paddlin'.
posted by phearlez at 8:17 AM on December 4, 2017 [13 favorites]


Found it. Turner v. Pidgeon, 17-424.
posted by phearlez at 8:19 AM on December 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


mx sciatrix's first response upon being informed, within a second:

"Fuck.

*Fuck.*

When will I lose my insurance?"

I'm going to try not to burst into tears as I run to make our appointment with the learning disability evaluator whose evaluation is going to be what lets my partner go back to school.
posted by sciatrix at 8:23 AM on December 4, 2017 [17 favorites]


@sciatrix my wife and I are kinda dismayed the fuck out right now too.

I’m totally mega pissed at the GOP for pissing on the mass grave of an entire generation of gay people who died from the AIDS epidemic in the 80’s and in also mega pissed at the Human Rights Campaign for abandoning ENDA in the mid 2000’s to pursue same sex marriage as a priority and I’m fuming pissed about the literal 100’s of millions of donated dollars that went to support the gay marriage fight that could have instead been used to what, oh I don’t know help trans people of color instead of wealthy white gay men?

Layers of anger right now.
posted by Annika Cicada at 8:26 AM on December 4, 2017 [43 favorites]


The Texas Supreme Court remanded Turner to be trial court. It still has to be tried. The Supreme Court did not take up the decision to remand. After trial, it can be appealed. I am hoping that the case was not taken up because of that procedural reason only. I am trying to tell myself that If this was the end of the line, one of the Justices would have issued a statement respecting the denial of cert.
posted by kerf at 8:30 AM on December 4, 2017 [63 favorites]


Fuck.

It's hard to pick a low point, but refusing to consider the Merrick Garland nomination was, for me, the moment the GOP did the most damage to American civics. We will be living with the ramifications for decades.
posted by jetsetsc at 8:30 AM on December 4, 2017 [34 favorites]


Thank you kerf. I need hope.
posted by Annika Cicada at 8:31 AM on December 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


Despite the claim that Flynn had gone rogue and that Vice President Pence was lied to, details that emerged in the Flynn plea documents make clear that Flynn’s discussions with Kislyak were widely discussed among President Trump’s top advisors. Pence almost certainly knew about them, though we as yet have no direct proof of this

I betcha there's pretty good odds that Mueller does, though.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:36 AM on December 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


FWIW I posted this FPP a while back and I think it’s important to note that the Texas GOP has widened their efforts to more than just trans people. And Jonathan Saenz is also just a complete work of hell.
posted by Annika Cicada at 8:41 AM on December 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


Mod note: A few comments removed; this SC thing is a pretty understandably troubling thing, let's take care not to knock each other around by accident talking about it. Per kerf's comment this may or may not immediately merit a dedicated post vs. just understandable "what now?" worries about the process, but if there is something substantial to discuss beyond waiting-and-worrying then a new post for it would be fine.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:44 AM on December 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


I can't imagine the Supreme Court just offhandedly batting away certiorari for this. The GLAD page on this says:
Update December 4, 2017: Today the U.S. Supreme Court denied the petition for review, and the case will continue through the Texas court.
So the case isn't dead, or finished, it's just going through the usual channels. It's also not clear to me whether this is referring to retroactive benefits that were granted (in contravention to the law) while gay marriage was still illegal in Texas, or benefits going forward. Can someone clarify who understands this case better?
posted by twooster at 8:46 AM on December 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


The Texas Supreme Court remanded Turner to be trial court. It still has to be tried. The Supreme Court did not take up the decision to remand. After trial, it can be appealed. I am hoping that the case was not taken up because of that procedural reason only. I am trying to tell myself that If this was the end of the line, one of the Justices would have issued a statement respecting the denial of cert.

Yeah I was reading the decision and this sticks out at me:
20 We note that neither the Supreme Court in Obergefell nor the Fifth Circuit in De Leon “struck down” any Texas law. When a court declares a law unconstitutional, the law remains in place unless and until the body that enacted it repeals it, even though the government may no longer constitutionally enforce it. Thus, the Texas and Houston DOMAs remain in place as they were before Obergefell and De Leon, which is why Pidgeon is able to bring this claim.
So it seems entirely procedural. It seems like the Supreme Court is saying "no, you can't just go willy nilly, you have to bring it to court, explain the 14th amendment again, and then the rights will be granted as a matter of course" and the Supreme Court not wanting to act as some sort of de facto original jurisdiction because Texas can't sort its shit out.
posted by Talez at 8:47 AM on December 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


This is, after all, the endgame that the Tenthers want -- for Americans to have to play good-state/bad-state for just about anything that matters, because they want to be able to discriminate against whoever/whatever on a whim, or in Jesus's name, in their little medieval fiefdoms.

It's a game that minorities of all sorts have a lot of experience playing, no matter what the laws said.
posted by delfin at 8:48 AM on December 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


So the SC not hearing this case doesn't necessarily preclude bringing a more general "spousal rights should apply to all marriages" case to the SC in future? That's something to cling to, at least.
“What an incredible early Christmas present from the U. S. Supreme Court,” said Jonathan Saenz, president of Texas Values and a lawyer who represents the Houston taxpayers who sued to challenge the same-sex benefits.
What an incredible smug asshole.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 8:52 AM on December 4, 2017 [15 favorites]


(Fox News link, sorry.) After Steinle verdict, rep unveils bill to imprison officials who shelter illegal immigrants

Indiana Rep. Todd Rokita’s bill is one of the most aggressive pieces of legislation to date aimed at sanctuary city policies, going beyond the Justice Department’s threat to cut off grants to those jurisdictions. [...] His “Stopping Lawless Actions of Politicians (SLAP) Act” would hold state and local lawmakers criminally responsible for refusing to comply with federal immigration enforcement efforts. The Republican’s bill would subject violators to a $1 million fine and up to five years in prison if they are convicted.

Of course, the GOP base considers ALL undocumented immigrants to be "illegal immigrant criminals," so they correctly see this as a bill to criminalize any official supporting sanctuary cities and states. It also opens the door for the GOP congress to introduce bills criminalizing the harboring of undocumented immigrants by private citizens, which I would not be surprised to see in the next year as their need for distraction increases. If we don't take some shit back in '18 then there's no reason for it not to pass, particularly if the GOP gets even hungrier for red-meat base-fodder. It's a fast train to Nuremberg.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:58 AM on December 4, 2017 [19 favorites]


So the SC not hearing this case doesn't necessarily preclude bringing a more general "spousal rights should apply to all marriages" case to the SC in future? That's something to cling to, at least.

The more cynical view is that Texas and other states haven't repealed their unconstitutional DOMA laws because they're waiting for Ginsburg or another liberal justice to die and be replaced by a conservative justice who will help overturn Obergfell and re-declare DOMA laws constitutional again.
posted by mightygodking at 8:59 AM on December 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


Indiana Rep. Todd Rokita’s bill is one of the most aggressive pieces of legislation to date aimed at sanctuary city policies, going beyond the Justice Department’s threat to cut off grants to those jurisdictions. [...] His “Stopping Lawless Actions of Politicians (SLAP) Act” would hold state and local lawmakers criminally responsible for refusing to comply with federal immigration enforcement efforts. The Republican’s bill would subject violators to a $1 million fine and up to five years in prison if they are convicted.

Why do these dipshits even pretend to appeal to being the party of constitutionalists when they haven't ever read it. This is like cut and dry 10th amendment stuff that's been long settled law.
posted by Talez at 9:05 AM on December 4, 2017 [18 favorites]


And by long settled I'm talking James Madison and The Federalist Papers long settled.
posted by Talez at 9:09 AM on December 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


Same old, same old. Repubs believe that the 10th Amendment is extremely limited and gives states the rights to control their own destiny, unless that destiny is something of which Republicans do not approve, in which case a Republican federal government is fully empowered to shut that shit down.

See also: what Sessions wants to do to marijuana nationwide, both medical and recreational.
posted by delfin at 9:11 AM on December 4, 2017 [22 favorites]


Because there's no test to govern other than being elected? We should probably just get elected. Y'know, cut right through it.
posted by petebest at 9:13 AM on December 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's bad enough that these so-called Christian based companies may get a green light on offering hate-based healthcare, but at least progressive companies can still continue to be progressive and offer LGBT-friendly benefits if they choose, right? I mean, Texas isn't forcing companies yet to only offer shitty packages that only apply to MF cisgender couples, right?

Now, if we had universal single payer healthcare for all, this would be a non-issue. Which is I suppose why they are so dead against it, even though all indications are that it would be a net economic benefit to society to take the responsibility for health insurance away from employers. Because it's not about the economy, it's not about "freedom," it's about being powerful, and causing suffering and pain, and making people cry and suffer humiliation, for no other reason than because you can.
posted by xigxag at 9:14 AM on December 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


The more cynical view is that Texas and other states haven't repealed their unconstitutional DOMA laws because they're waiting for Ginsburg or another liberal justice to die ...

Could be, maybe likely is, but could also be simple inertia. Massachusetts still has laws on the books that ban: abortion, contraception for single people, adultery, blasphemy, swearing at umpires and referees (and Yankees) and being a hobo, despite all of them being unenforceable. There's a state rep who used to introduce a bill every year to delete all these laws; he eventually gave up.
posted by adamg at 9:21 AM on December 4, 2017 [14 favorites]


*chuckle*

Senate Republicans Accidentally Killed Some of Their Donors’ Favorite Tax Breaks
"The GOP had originally intended to abolish the AMT. But on Friday, with the clock running out — and money running short — Senate Republicans put the AMT back into their bill. Unfortunately for McConnell, they forgot to lower AMT after doing so.

"This is a big problem. The Senate bill brings the normal corporate rate down to 20 percent — while leaving the alternative minimum rate at … 20 percent. The legislation would still allow corporations to claim a wide variety of tax credits and deductions — it just renders all them completely worthless. Companies can either take no deductions, and pay a 20 percent rate — or take lots of deductions … and pay a 20 percent rate.

"With this blunder, Senate Republicans have achieved the unthinkable: They’ve written a giant corporate tax cut that many of their corporate donors do not like."
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 9:40 AM on December 4, 2017 [137 favorites]


No one could have predicted rewriting the tax code in three hours on a Friday night in the margins of a bill nobody liked could possibly turn out badly.

I guess this ensures the House won't eat the Senate bill, though.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:45 AM on December 4, 2017 [67 favorites]


Is it just me or does it look like the GOP are fleeing a sinking ship and robbing the safe on the way out? Like do they know something we don’t? Is there precedent for this kind of legislative scramble?
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:48 AM on December 4, 2017 [14 favorites]


I guess this ensures the House won't eat the Senate bill, though.

It means they'll need to vote on this whole thing all over again. Which means there's still a reason to put massive shame and leverage on folks like Collins, Murkowski, Flake and Corker, as well as the vulnerable House Republicans.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:49 AM on December 4, 2017 [35 favorites]


Other than the healthcare bill, not really.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:49 AM on December 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


Indiana Rep. Todd Rokita’s bill is one of the most aggressive pieces of legislation to date aimed at sanctuary city policies,

This is your periodic reminder to not take stunt bills seriously other than as an indicator of what a Rep will be fundraising on and how big a jackass they are. HR 4526 has a sum total of 0 cosponsors and will almost surely go nowhere and do nothing other than get this human stain some air time.
posted by phearlez at 9:55 AM on December 4, 2017 [14 favorites]


@keithboykin (CNN)
So Kushner was essentially working for Israel, Michael Flynn was working for Turkey, Paul Manafort was working for Ukraine, and Trump was working for Russia. But, hey, America First, right?

Ukrainians may beg to differ re: Manafort.
posted by ocschwar at 9:58 AM on December 4, 2017 [13 favorites]


He was working for Ukraine in the sense that a foreign agent loyal to Trump et al. is working for "America."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:00 AM on December 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


It means they'll need to vote on this whole thing all over again. Which means there's still a reason to put massive shame and leverage on folks like Collins, Murkowski, Flake and Corker, as well as the vulnerable House Republicans.

No they'll just make sure it's in the bill that comes out of conference.
posted by Talez at 10:01 AM on December 4, 2017


> No they'll just make sure it's in the bill that comes out of conference.

Right, but they'll have to vote on it again. If the House can't eat the Senate bill - and this AMT goof makes it more likely that they won't - every Senator has to go on the record AGAIN and vote for the bill that comes out of conference, as does every House rep.

So it's another opportunity to name and shame each of them.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:04 AM on December 4, 2017 [36 favorites]


Can people in red districts demand Town Halls over the break? Another chance to shame the ones who won't, like with healthcare.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:10 AM on December 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


Because it's not about the economy, it's not about "freedom," it's about being powerful, and causing suffering and pain, and making people cry and suffer humiliation, for no other reason than because you can.

Well, that is in fact what a lot of people mean by "freedom". It's the freedom of property and money, not of people.
posted by thelonius at 10:11 AM on December 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


Is it just me or does it look like the GOP are fleeing a sinking ship and robbing the safe on the way out? Like do they know something we don’t? Is there precedent for this kind of legislative scramble?

From the Archdruid Report:
The longer a given elite has been in power, and the more august and formal and well-aged the institutions of its power and wealth become, the easier it seems to be for the very rich to forget that their forefathers established themselves in that position by some form of more or less blatant piracy, and that they themselves could be deprived of it by that same means. Thus elites tend to, shall we say, “misunderestimate” exactly those crises and sources of conflict that pose an existential threat to the survival of their class and its institutions, precisely because they can’t imagine that an existential threat to these things could be posed by anything at all.
Most of them don't see any systemic problems or major shifts going on, because they're selected from a pool of people who aren't remotely trained to consider those are possibilities. So they're seeing a temporary "things are rough," and grabbing what they can to "wait out the hassles."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:12 AM on December 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


The longer a given elite has been in power, and the more august and formal and well-aged the institutions of its power and wealth become, the easier it seems to be for the very rich to forget that their forefathers established themselves in that position by some form of more or less blatant piracy,

NATIVE AMERICAN: You don't say.
posted by delfin at 10:23 AM on December 4, 2017 [19 favorites]


> Can people in red districts demand Town Halls over the break? Another chance to shame the ones who won't, like with healthcare.

"Demand?" Not really. You can try to shame them into having one, but that doesn't help when they're shameless. Pat Toomey has been doing sham tele-town-hall thing so he can technically say he's listening to his constituents. I expect that sort of deflection will become more popular among those who even bother to put up a facade of caring.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:25 AM on December 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


Can people in red districts demand Town Halls over the break? Another chance to shame the ones who won't, like with healthcare.

Here's an idea:

get Democratic reps to do town halls in red districts, in lieu of the actual reps.
posted by ocschwar at 10:26 AM on December 4, 2017 [66 favorites]


If the budget goes up for full votes again, is it still possible to get CHIP funded?
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:28 AM on December 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Democratic reps from other districts could do town halls, and anyone planning to run in the district could do them.

Both of those involve money and logistics efforts that aren't as easy for an outsider, but probably wouldn't be hard to do - find an org with a building willing to host, and a handful of local businesses who sponsor snacks and pay for staff, and have a meeting about "what you want done that your representative refuses to hear."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:30 AM on December 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


If the budget goes up for full votes again, is it still possible to get CHIP funded?

If they don't vote in the current version, I believe it's basically "back to two complete rewrites." I don't think there are any laws about what kinds of "adjustments" they can make, as long as the final funding is within the necessary guidelines.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:32 AM on December 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


It occurs to me that a decent strategy might be to schedule a town hall, invite the representative, promote the hell out of it, and hold it whether the sen/rep shows up or not. If not, then it can be a brainstorming session among people who do show up about what to do about representatives who don't show up.
posted by rhizome at 10:35 AM on December 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


Can people in red districts demand Town Halls over the break? Another chance to shame the ones who won't, like with healthcare.

When you have a rep like mine (Trey Hollingsworthless), you can beg, and scream, and curse, and they won't give a shit because you live in a little blue oasis in a larger sea of red. I still call him, though, and it's fun watching people taunt him at his office, crash his appearances with Real Americans, and hold town halls without him. Anything to cause him to regret his decision to ever run for office, and fuck off back to Tennessee.
posted by Rykey at 10:37 AM on December 4, 2017 [26 favorites]


Yes, all these ideas! I think when Issa refused the hold a town hall Ted Lieu had a press conference in front of Issa's office. It all helpes.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:40 AM on December 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


CNN is running a story which reports that White House Counsel Don McGahn informed Trump in January that he believed Flynn had lied to the FBI.

This would appear to corroborate this weekend's big tweet of, erm, disputed authorship, and strongly suggest evidence that Trump was intending to obstruct justice when he asked Comey to let the Flynn investigation go.

One question is why Don McGahn, or someone close to him, is proferring this seemingly damning information now.

Potentially of interest: McGahn did one half of his interview with Mueller's team last week, before the Flynn news broke. His second interview was postponed to today.
posted by scarylarry at 10:40 AM on December 4, 2017 [20 favorites]


Good news dept: Massachusetts is dismissing more than 6,000 drug convictions that were tied to misconduct by a lab chemist.

Thanks to the ACLU!
posted by Chrysostom at 10:44 AM on December 4, 2017 [65 favorites]


ErisLordFreedom: According to Wikipedia (i know, i know)
House and Senate rules forbid conferees from inserting in their report matter not committed to them by either House. (See House Rule XXII, Senate Rule XXVIII) But conference committees sometimes do introduce new matter. In such a case, the rules of each House let a member object through a point of order, though each House has procedures that let other members vote to waive the point of order. The House provides a procedure for striking the offending provision from the bill.

[...]

From fall 1996 through 2000, the Senate had no limit on the scope of conference reports, and some argued that the majority abused the power of conference committees. In December 2000, the Senate reinstated the prohibition of inserting matters outside the scope of conference. (See Consolidated Appropriations for Fiscal Year 2001, Pub.L. 106–554, § 903 (2000), 114 Stat. 2763, 2763A-198.) The rule changed again with the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act (S. 1 of the 110th Congress), enacted in September 2007. Now any single Senator may raise a procedural objection, a point of order, against subject matter newly inserted by the conference committee without objecting to the rest of the bill. Proponents of the measure may move to waive the rule. The affirmative vote of 60 Senators is required to waive the rule. If the point of order is not waived and the Chair rules that the objection is well-founded, only the offending provision is stricken from the measure, and the Senate votes on sending the balance of the measure back to the House. (See Senate Rule XXVIII.)
Bolding my own.

So, obviously this is a little unclear but it looks like it (maybe) can't be a total rewrite, and the edits have to be restricted to items contained in one version or another, so no adding new things. If they did add something new it may be subject to a 60-Senator vote. But maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can comment further.
posted by cybertaur1 at 10:45 AM on December 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


Has anyone been able to verify whether or not the Republicans have a plan to avoid the automatic spending cuts? Because if those cuts go into place Alaska isn't going to get any of the money for drilling in ANWR, and supposedly that was a major reason that Murkowski voted for the bill in the first place.
posted by Anonymous at 10:45 AM on December 4, 2017


One question is why Don McGahn, or someone close to him, is proferring this seemingly damning information now.

Maybe he's fed up?

The White House counsel reportedly almost resigned amid concerns over Trump-Kushner meetings and the Russia probe (Sonam Sheth, Business Insider)
posted by Room 641-A at 10:48 AM on December 4, 2017 [19 favorites]


I think the insanity of some Republican actions can also be attributed to primarily consuming Fox News and tailoring their choices to whatever gets a good reaction on it. If your crazy old racist uncle is elected to the House it doesn't magically make him less your crazy old racist uncle.
posted by Anonymous at 10:48 AM on December 4, 2017


Good news dept: Massachusetts is dismissing more than 6,000 drug convictions that were tied to misconduct by a lab chemist.

more than 6,000 convictions tied to a former chemist who authorities say was high almost every day she worked at a state drug lab for eight years.

I shouldn't laugh, lots of real people were hurt by this, but man.
posted by Dumsnill at 10:49 AM on December 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


It occurs to me that a decent strategy might be to schedule a town hall, invite the representative, promote the hell out of it, and hold it whether the sen/rep shows up or not. If not, then it can be a brainstorming session among people who do show up about what to do about representatives who don't show up.

I forget who mentioned it here, but Invite The Press. Their story is either Senator/Rep showed up OR Senator/Rep DIDN'T show up.
posted by mikelieman at 10:51 AM on December 4, 2017 [14 favorites]


more than 6,000 convictions tied to a former chemist who authorities say was high almost every day she worked at a state drug lab for eight years.

And this is just because of the chemist in the state's Amherst labs. Another 21,500 cases were dismissed because of the misconduct of a chemist in the state's Jamaica Plain labs. That one didn't sample, but she zoomed through her cases to get them all done - even if that meant just making results up. Her lab was so overworked that even some of the Boston cases she didn't handle were dismissed - because they were shipped out to Amherst.
posted by adamg at 10:55 AM on December 4, 2017 [18 favorites]


Hard to say why the McGahn info is coming out now without knowing the source. It could be venting as Room 641-A says. It could be a public signal to other senior White House people that you can't lie about this topic to FBI officials. For this second point it would be helpful to know who has and has not gone before the Special Counsel for interviews (although I suppose anyone can be recalled for additional "chats".

Another point in favor of this being a signal is that to remember this timeframe in the Trump Presidency was marked by the open door policy to the white house and a very (even more so than today) chaotic nature of information sharing. Trump isn't great about compartmentalizing things so there is no end to home many of the senior staff knew about what McGahn told Trump.
posted by mmascolino at 10:56 AM on December 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


> From the article about Trump-Krusher meetings:
If the president met frequently enough with Kushner, Mueller could probe into their conversations and find inconsistencies in their stories, he added.

We're all waiting for Mueller to have a reason to put Trump under oath. His absolute best option is a long string of "I don't recall" answers - but I doubt he can keep his mouth shut that well. He's too fond of throwing around his opinions and declaring that whatever he thinks today, was always policy. At this point, I'm sure he believes he fired Flynn - and saying so under oath would be perjury.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:58 AM on December 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


I wonder what McGahn's relationship with Ty Cobb is like.
posted by rhizome at 10:58 AM on December 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


He's too fond of throwing around his opinions and declaring that whatever he thinks today, was always policy.

YOU'RE GODDAM RIGHT I ORDERED THE CODE RED
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 11:05 AM on December 4, 2017 [30 favorites]


Both my Senators voted for the Tax Cuts and Jobs Bill to become law. I spoke to Senator Grassley's regional office and Senator Ernst's regional and DC offices. I expressed concern that I couldn't read page 257 of the bill because it was in cursive and because many of the words were cut off by the printer. I asked whether the senators had voted for a bill to become a law when they were physically incapable of reading the words in the bill which would become the law.

None of the offices had a copy of the bill which had been passed by the senators.

Ernst's regional office staffer told me that he "was sure" she had read the bill. When I asked whether she had some other copy of the bill that had all the words in it, he was not so sure. He would check. He said the text of the bill could not be read because there was a process it had to go through first where people have to sign off on it. I asked what process he was referring to and why Senator Ernst voted for the bill to become a law before she was physically capable of reading the words in the bill, to which he did not have an answer.

Grassley's regional office told me that Grassley did not vote for the bill to become a law in its present form, and that the Senator was certain it would not do so. This made me extremely angry. I asked what would happen if the House of Representatives voted to pass the same bill that the Senate had passed. She avoided the question, eventually asking, "How many times has that happened?". I expressed concern that Grassley voted for a bill to become a law when he was physically incapable of reading the bill, presumably because he cared only about his wealthy donors and not about the other people affected by federal laws. The staffer said we would have to agree to disagree, and hung up on me.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:07 AM on December 4, 2017 [112 favorites]


While we're on the topic of "Pat Fucking Toomey and his sham town halls" and other such Senators who cannot be reasoned with, only annoyed and distracted, we had some good old-fashioned "protestors chaining themselves to Pat's office to point out what a gormless jerk he is" fun in Pittsburgh today. Sadly, by the time I found out about it they had already unchained themselves and moved along, so I could not volunteer to bring them coffee or pizza or something.
posted by Stacey at 11:18 AM on December 4, 2017 [16 favorites]


The staffer said we would have to agree to disagree, and hung up on me.

If they’re trying to foment a wave election, they’re doing a heckuva job. This is why every election matters. This is how we agree to disagree: we evict them.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:20 AM on December 4, 2017 [58 favorites]


get Democratic reps to do town halls in red districts, in lieu of the actual reps.

Just FYI, I'm counting eleven states* where there are no Democratic members (of the house, at least). Nine of those states have two Republican senators, as well.

This of course means that members of Congress are even less inclined to pay attention to the interests of Democratic constituents. Getting them to hold a town hall would be some kind of miracle. I have been advised, in all seriousness, to register as a Republican, so my votes have at least a LITTLE meaning. I do personally like the idea of holding stunt town halls without them, but haven't seen that happen yet.

*(Alaska, Utah, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Arkansas)
posted by god hates math at 11:22 AM on December 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


Good news dept: Massachusetts is dismissing more than 6,000 drug convictions that were tied to misconduct by a lab chemist.

It's sad that that's seen as a win for the progressive team, when it should be just common sense. Even hard-line anti-drug authoritarians should support this if they have any belief in rule of law.
posted by acb at 11:23 AM on December 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


If you have access to local news, it's a great time to call them with story tips: Senator's staff say that voting for bill was not voting for it to become law; Staff says Senator read the whole bill, even the handwritten parts not printed.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:23 AM on December 4, 2017 [39 favorites]


schroedinger: "Has anyone been able to verify whether or not the Republicans have a plan to avoid the automatic spending cuts? Because if those cuts go into place Alaska isn't going to get any of the money for drilling in ANWR, and supposedly that was a major reason that Murkowski voted for the bill in the first place."

Even if Alaska realizes zero royalty money there will be lots of money flowing to oil companies and workers; some of it might even stop in Alaska for a while.
posted by Mitheral at 11:29 AM on December 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


After you've called all of your senators and reps, the FCC is still taking comments about net neutrality. All in favor, say 202-418-1000.

Any ideas what to say to my helpful Minnesota democrats to get them to raise a bigger stink about the reverse Robin Hood bill?
posted by Emmy Rae at 11:44 AM on December 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump shrinks Bears Ears, Grand Staircase-Escalante national monuments by about 2 million acres — the biggest cutback of protected federal lands in U.S history (WaPo)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:46 AM on December 4, 2017 [26 favorites]


28 Senators send letter to the FCC asking it to delay its vote on net neutrality.

NY AG wants net neutrality vote delayed to investigate fake comments submitted to FCC.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:50 AM on December 4, 2017 [40 favorites]


> Trump shrinks Bears Ears, Grand Staircase-Escalante national monuments by about 2 million acres — the biggest cutback of protected federal lands in U.S history (WaPo)

You left off #MAGA!

Also, this will be tied up in lawsuits for a while. This fight is not over.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:53 AM on December 4, 2017 [18 favorites]


@TopherSpiro BREAKING: The 3 big promises @SenatorCollins got will NOT be done before the final vote on the tax bill. The bill to keep the govt open does NOT include Alexander-Murray, reinsurance, or waiver of Medicare cuts. #mepolitics

---> this is my surprised face. :-|
posted by anastasiav at 11:54 AM on December 4, 2017 [48 favorites]


Regarding those states with all-R reps: Arkansas has at least one challenger; a second is mentioned in the comments.

It's an uphill slog, but voter turnout is normally under 40%, and the Dems haven't even run anyone in the last several elections. (It's considered the most Republican district in the state.) A campaign focused on getting D votes in, instead of trying to persuade R voters, could go a long way.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:58 AM on December 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


I wonder if Collins has the fortitude to change her vote, now that none of her demands have been addressed. I truly don’t know enough about her to have a sense of that.
posted by GrammarMoses at 12:00 PM on December 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


It occurs to me that a decent strategy might be to schedule a town hall, invite the representative, promote the hell out of it, and hold it whether the sen/rep shows up or not. If not, then it can be a brainstorming session among people who do show up about what to do about representatives who don't show up.

This is exactly what Indivisible suggests. My Rep hasn't had a town hall since the election, other than one tele-townhall with screened questions. We did hold a Town Hall in his absence with about 60 folks there and it was briefly covered in local media, but didn't provoke any response.
posted by threeturtles at 12:04 PM on December 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


A campaign focused on getting D votes in, instead of trying to persuade R voters, could go a long way.

That is exactly what Steve Phillips at The Nation points out: Democrats Don't Need Trump Supporters To Win Elections
We must have less apology and more outrage. This monster in the White House and his enablers in Congress are destroying the country and the world. The appropriate response is outrage, anger, and, most important, action. Action to move our friends and neighbors to the polls so that we can take our country back. We’ve made a good start in 2017, and the results confirm the soundness of the strategy. Now is the time to redouble those efforts.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:06 PM on December 4, 2017 [80 favorites]


Correction: We held three town halls without him on three consecutive nights, one in each city that our 300 mile long gerrymandered district includes. So it was definitely more than 60 folks involved, that was just my local meeting.
posted by threeturtles at 12:12 PM on December 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump's defense has shifted from "there was no obstruction" to "obstruction is awesome!" (ok, "the president can't obstruct". That plus the news that McGahn had informed Trump that Flynn lied to the FBI before Trump tied to torpedo the investigation makes me think they believe Mueller is pretty much certain to return a report saying that Trump did obstruct justice. Maybe multiple times. So now it's all about what kind of underlying crimes he also finds.

While technically not necessary I think Congress is far more likely to act when obstruction is linked to an underlying offense. Clinton's impeachment, for example, failed mostly because there was no underlying offense and just lying about a consensual sexual encounter.
posted by Justinian at 12:14 PM on December 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


I don't know if SUWA or the tribes will win this fight, but my hope is to keep everything tied up until 2021 when (fingers crossed) a Democratic president can reverse this. There's also hope in the fact that Escalante was once considered a source for coal. There's not going to be any interest in opening new coal mines now.

It's still considered a source for coal; part of the plan is to strip the coal-rich Kaiparowits Plateau out of the monument. Also the prospective tar sands area around Circle Cliffs. And a bunch more.

We don't know if the lawsuits will succeed but it does appear that the law is on the good guys' side. The Federal Land Policy and Management Act seems to prescribe that Congress would have to approve a reduction or elimination of a monument designated via the Antiquities Act. Also, Congress legislated the boundaries of GSENM as part of a land swap in 1998. Here's hoping Trump loses yet again in court.
posted by azpenguin at 12:20 PM on December 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


Mueller is pretty much certain to return a report saying that Trump did obstruct justice.

In updating my Trump-Russia explainer website, I took the time to gather the threads of evidence relating to obstruction of justice and attempt to tie them together. I kept having to edit it as I came across more.
One of the most clear-cut possible charges, based on what is publicly known at this point, would be obstruction of justice. Trump firing FBI Director James Comey would be illegal if he did so with the intention of interfering with an investigation. Both the Special Counsel and the Judiciary Committee are currently investigating this possibility. A draft letter stating different motivations for the firing than the eventual written documentation is in the possession of the Special Counsel. In addition, Trump admitted in an interview on NBC that frustration with the Russia probe was part of his motivation for the firing. Jeff Sessions will neither confirm nor deny that Trump asked him to intervene in Justice Department investigations. But the Trump-appointed Director of National Intelligence, Dan Coates, and several Republicans on the Senate Intelligence Committee report that he told them he hoped their investigations would be over quickly. He also told the Russian ambassador and foreign minister that "I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off" after firing Comey. Trump also apparently knew Flynn was probably guilty of a federal crime when he asked James Comey to go easy on Flynn. Finally, Trump fired US Attorney Preet Bharara and Acting Attorney General Sally Yates, as well as Comey. Both were involved in the Russia investigation, and Yates was fired shorty after she informed the White House that Flynn had lied to the vice president about the same phone call about which he lied to the FBI. Trump has been personally interviewing candidates to replace Bharara, which would not normally be the president's role. All of this could constitute evidence of intent to obstruct justice.
I may have to pare that down since it has become kind of an intimidating wall of text, which I have been trying to avoid. But at the moment I want to just leave it there and marvel at how solid it is. Figured other MeFites might appreciate it as well...

(I've added other new material as well, since I try to incorporate the major revelations as they come out, so please click and dig around if you are interested. As always you are welcome to plagiarize any part of it in comments of your own, or just use it as a reference to help find links to bolster arguments you are having.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:22 PM on December 4, 2017 [98 favorites]


Turn it into an infographic, like the Prenda Law chart.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:28 PM on December 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


Here's the Congressional Record for Friday which presumably includes the final bill the Senate voted for. This is fun:
Mr. DURBIN. I submitted page 257 of the amendment to be placed in the RECORD and you gave unanimous consent for that to happen. I have now been instructed that the personnel at the Senate cannot read this page the way it is currently written. Could I have this entered in the RECORD just as written with the handwritten notations on the side? Could I enter it as a graphic or artwork or something like that? I ask the Presiding Officer, does that mean if the amendment has this page in it, that the amendment cannot be filed?
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The amendment can be filed with handwritten changes, but the staff will have to change those later or correct them. [...]
Mr. DURBIN. Parliamentary inquiry. This page, which is part of the tax bill, as written, cannot be filed in the Senate because no one can read it; is that correct? [...]
The PRESIDING OFFICER. The amendment as shown with the handwritten text cannot be printed in that graphic form. [...]
Mr. WYDEN. When this is filed, we want the American people to know what has actually been written on the side. Will it be possible, as part of Senator DURBIN’s statement, to add this ‘‘written on the side’’ portion as part of his statement so that the American people will actually know how outrageous this process is and that it at least states, as part of his speech, what is written in the margin? [...] My question is, when the amendment is filed, I would like to ensure that the important point my colleague has made about what is written in the margin could be included as part of his written statement that will be entered into the RECORD so that the American people can get some sense of what kind of flimflam is actually taking place here.
The PRESIDING OFFICER. When the amendment is filed [...] the text will appear in linear format with any errors that may be in it.
Mr. DURBIN. Mr. President, I have the greatest respect for the Senate staff, and I am not trying to say anything negative about them. I was hoping that this could be entered into the RECORD, and I asked for unanimous consent to enter it, believing that the handwritten portion would show up in the RECORD. I have since been advised that there will have to be translators and interpreters who will have to decide exactly what this says before it is actually part of the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. I think that I have made my point as to where we stand in preparation of tax reform for America. Thank you.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:31 PM on December 4, 2017 [73 favorites]


Meanwhile, back at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, White House Paranoid: 'Everyone Thinks They’re Being Recorded' (Politico)
White House attorneys and private counsel representing both current and former Trump aides told POLITICO they immediately checked in with their clients once they learned about Mueller’s plea agreements with Papadopoulos and Flynn, asking whether they’d had any communications with their former colleagues that could have been secretly recorded and reminding them to diligently avoid conversations with anyone except their lawyer related to the Russia investigation.

“They’re probably sh---ing bricks,” said an attorney who represents a senior Trump aide caught up in the Russia investigation. “How can you not?”[...]

Former Watergate prosecutor Nick Akerman said Mueller is on solid ground with ample court precedent to use witnesses wearing wires with anyone who isn’t known to have a lawyer. And he said the special counsel also has plenty of room to use the technique with people who do have lawyers. “Otherwise, the government would never be able to use body wires against career criminals like members of the Mafia, who always have lawyers,” he said. Defense attorneys rarely succeed in getting tape-recorded conversations thrown out in court, he added, because the cooperator can still testify about what the person told them.

“The tape recording ensures that what the jury hears of the conversation is actually what happened, as opposed to someone’s testimony as to what happened,” he said. Asked about Cobb’s advice to the White House that it shouldn’t fret about colleagues wearing wires, Akerman replied, “That’s good. Let them think that.”

Because Mueller’s team is under such intense public scrutiny surrounding its work, it will “be very circumspect on how and where and of course why they would wire a particular person, and prepared to defend their judgment at every step of the process,” said Ronald Hosko, former assistant director of the FBI’s Criminal Investigative Division.
Trump's long history of secretly bugging his own calls makes the idea of him and his staff;s paranoia about being recorded themselves highly amusing.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:39 PM on December 4, 2017 [32 favorites]


I mean, if Collins doesn't push back after McConnell blatantly lied to her and is asking for her vote again, it makes her look incredibly weak and stupid. I mean Charlie Brown with the football stupid. It makes her look terrible to the constituents she was arguably trying to assuage. She should vote, "No" out of general principles. Unless it was all kabuki.

If Corker keeps his vote the same, and Collins flips, that means we need only one vote to kill this thing.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:41 PM on December 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


Carrie Johnson, NPR: 2016 RNC Delegate: Trump Directed Change To Party Platform On Ukraine Support
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:48 PM on December 4, 2017 [32 favorites]


Mueller is on solid ground with ample court precedent to use witnesses wearing wires with anyone who isn’t known to have a lawyer.

DC is a one-party consent region. Most conversations need no judicial oversight to allow recording, and we had a long subthread on "getting wireless devices into the White House" a few threads back, with the upshot being, since people aren't being strip-searched on the way in, and personal phones aren't even banned, getting the recordings themselves is a simple and easy process.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:49 PM on December 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


White House Paranoid: 'Everyone Thinks They’re Being Recorded'

Didn't we have this meal before, back when everybody in the administration was having trouble with lightswitches in the White House or whatever?
posted by rhizome at 12:55 PM on December 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


In updating my Trump-Russia explainer website
posted by OnceUponATime

I want to marry a website.
posted by BS Artisan at 12:57 PM on December 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


The New Yorker: The Trumpishness of Ivana
When a tabloid called Ivana an unfit mother, Donald sent a bodyguard to fetch Don, Jr., telling Ivana that he wanted to keep him, she writes. (She had been awarded full custody.) Ivana agreed to the plan; Donald, his bluff called, quickly sent his son back.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:04 PM on December 4, 2017 [28 favorites]


Where we are as a nation. WSJ, How Dollar General Became Rural America’s Store of Choice:
Lower-priced items are often a financial necessity for shoppers. At a Dollar General in Nashville, Tenn., store manager Damon Ridley said, he has helped older children put together a dinner menu for their younger siblings with the few dollars they have. “I am more of an outreach manager,” he said.
...
The more the rural U.S. struggles, company officials said, the more places Dollar General has found to prosper. “The economy is continuing to create more of our core customer,” Chief Executive Todd Vasos said in an interview at the company’s Goodlettsville, Tenn., headquarters.
Slate, Dahlia Lithwick, Is It Too Late for Robert Mueller to Save Us?:
In weeks like this one, when it seems the Mueller investigation is quite literally the only authority and sanity we can look to, it’s hard to tell whether the net losses outweigh the wins, or whether the massive national game of deconstruction and deflection and deception is even the littlest bit disrupted by news that the special counsel is closing in on a legal conclusion. Maybe it’s really too late in the slide toward authoritarianism for any major legal outcome to change the game. We crave nonpartisan and serious authority figures like Mueller because we believe they can guide us through. But having seen this White House shatter norms around the free press, civility, international diplomacy, and truth-telling, it almost defies belief that the line in the sand, the stopping point, is Mueller.
NYT, Republicans Sought to Undercut an Unfavorable Analysis of the Tax Plan, in which the GOP set out to attack the Joint Committee on Taxation before voting on the tax bill.
posted by zachlipton at 1:04 PM on December 4, 2017 [21 favorites]


“Sessions argued in Clinton impeachment that presidents can obstruct justice” (Kyle Cheney @ Politico): "President Donald Trump’s personal lawyer argued Monday that, as the nominal head of federal law enforcement, the president is legally unable to obstruct justice. But the exact opposite view was once argued by another senior Trump lawyer: Attorney General Jeff Sessions. In 1999, Sessions – then an Alabama senator – laid out an impassioned case for President Bill Clinton to be removed from office based on the argument that Clinton obstructed justice amid the investigation into his affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky."
posted by LeLiLo at 1:11 PM on December 4, 2017 [45 favorites]


@lawrencehurley: BREAKING: Supreme Court allows Trump's latest travel ban to go into full effect
posted by zombieflanders at 1:18 PM on December 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


It's pretty ironic that the Clinton impeachment proceedings that are providing the grounds for potential proceedings against Trump.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:18 PM on December 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


“Sessions argued in Clinton impeachment that presidents can obstruct justice”

Sitting GOP Senators who voted to REMOVE Clinton from office for obstruction of justice: Cochran, Crapo, Enzi, Grassley, Hatch, Inhofe, McCain, Roberts, Shelby, and Sessions. Lindsey Graham was the House manager of the impeachment for obstruction.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:18 PM on December 4, 2017 [24 favorites]


@lawrencehurley: BREAKING: Supreme Court allows Trump's latest travel ban to go into full effect

By a 7-2 vote. "Justice Ginsburg and Justice Sotomayor would deny the application."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:25 PM on December 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


@lawrencehurley: BREAKING: Supreme Court allows Trump's latest travel ban to go into full effect

I'm not understanding how they are allowed to still pursue the travel ban when it was supposedly to give them 60 days or whatever to review the current policy. The timeframe they asked for is long over. Is that not a factor anymore?
posted by JenMarie at 1:27 PM on December 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday let stand a Texas ruling that said the right to a marriage license did not entitle same-sex couples to spousal benefits under employee insurance plans.
posted by Annika Cicada at 8:09 AM on December 4 [36 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


This is why we can't have nice things.

I was disappointed that Obama didn't fight more like a Republican on the Garland nomination. He could have said, "Well, Senate if you are not going to fulfill your Constitutionally mandated duty to advise and consent, I will take your consent for granted and install Garland," then argue about it in court. It would have at least forced the GOP Senators to articulate their hateful beliefs out loud.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:28 PM on December 4, 2017 [73 favorites]


It appears that the preliminary injunction granted by the District Court is stayed while the US Government appeals to the 9th Circuit. So it appears the ban will go into effect while the Government appeals the Hawaii ruling which blocked the ban?
posted by Existential Dread at 1:30 PM on December 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


I agree Mental Wimp. It feels like we rolled over on that.
posted by JenMarie at 1:31 PM on December 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


Declining to recess-appoint Garland after the Senate refused to do the "advise" part of advising-and-consenting was among the more serious mistakes in Obama's presidency.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:34 PM on December 4, 2017 [51 favorites]


Can I ask a question about the AMT mistake, because I'm not sure I'm parsing this correctly?

They had planned to not only lower the Corporate Tax Rate to 20%, they were supposed to either abolish or reduce the AMT such that corporations would actually be able to reduce their effective tax rate lower than 20%? Is that right?

So the bill says "Hey, remember that amount we said was the minimum you should pay? Good news, we're now also making it the maximum you should pay! Yay!"

And Corporations are going to be upset because what they actually wanted was a lowering of the floor as well as capping the ceiling at where the floor used to be?!?!
posted by jermsplan at 1:36 PM on December 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


Im as mad about Garland as anybody but it doesn't seem to have mattered in this case (yet), though we don't know it was a 7-2 either, only that Ginsberg and Sotomayor definitively voted against staying the injunction.

This is definitely far from over, but giving him anything to feel good about feels like an L.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:38 PM on December 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


No they'll just make sure it's in the bill that comes out of conference.
posted by Talez at 10:01 AM on December 4 [+] [!]

I love the idea of the Senators explaining how they have to modify the bill and revote because it didn't give big enough tax breaks to the wealthy, so they'll fix that by raising taxes on the middle class and poor even more.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:40 PM on December 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


The timeframe they asked for is long over. Is that not a factor anymore?

That Executive Order has long since been withdrawn; the preliminary injunction that has been stayed by the Supreme Court is here and the relevant Executive Order is here.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:41 PM on December 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


Im as mad about Garland as anybody but it doesn't seem to have mattered in this case (yet), though we don't know it was a 7-2 either, only that Ginsberg and Sotomayor definitively voted against staying the injunction.

Typically these orders will note any vote that dissents from any part of it. So if Kagan were partly on board, you'd expect to see "Justice Kagan would only grant the petition with respect to X, Y and Z."

Also:

And Corporations are going to be upset because what they actually wanted was a lowering of the floor as well as capping the ceiling at where the floor used to be?!?!

You'd better believe it. The tax code right now isn't exactly bereft of loopholes -- how many of them do you think are paying more than the AMT on their reported corporate income?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:41 PM on December 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


Obama didn't get recess appointments because the Supreme Court unanimously declared that the Senate could make up its own rules regarding when it went on recess, and so guess what, it technically never went on recess. To us enlightened folk, just saying fuck it and "installing" Garland anyway makes total sense in hindsight, but way back then in the misty Antetrumpic Era, people still naively thought that court rulings and established policy meant something. The idea that as President you could literally do or say anything with impunity and the full support of your party, we weren't advanced enough as a civilization to fathom that level of science.

Betcha the dinosaurs thought they were had to wait politely in line to flee disasters which is why they got wiped out when the meteor struck. Stupid dinosaurs.
posted by xigxag at 1:46 PM on December 4, 2017 [34 favorites]


I believe Obama certainly could have made recess appointments in early January when one Congress ended and another commenced. No-one could argue that wasn't a recess.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:47 PM on December 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


Mod note: I get the prompting towards the Obama/Garland/SC topic but maybe let's not rehash the should he have/could he have etc stuff all over again in here.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:50 PM on December 4, 2017 [14 favorites]


> They had planned to not only lower the Corporate Tax Rate to 20%, they were supposed to either abolish or reduce the AMT such that corporations would actually be able to reduce their effective tax rate lower than 20%? Is that right?

Yes. The idea of the AMT (I'm talking about the individual taxpayer AMT, but as far as I know the corporate AMT is broadly similar) is that society thinks your tax obligation should never fall below a certain minimum.

So you compute your taxes the regular way, and then you compute your taxes in an "alternative" way, without most of the usual deductions but at a much lower tax rate (the "minimum"), and you pay the higher of the two bills. Of course, the existence of tax deductions makes no sense if the alternative minimum rate is not lower than the regular rate, because you'd almost always owe the alternative amount anyway. But that's what Senate Republicans have legislated: regular rate of 20% with various deductions, and alternative rate of 20% with no (or few) deductions.

It's like a total rookie mistake, which would have been caught on Day 1 of any hearings or formal markup. (John McCain: Regular order!) Political malpractice. If your accountant made this sort of mistake, you'd fire them at once.

These people are a disgrace.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:50 PM on December 4, 2017 [48 favorites]


Any ideas what to say to my helpful Minnesota democrats to get them to raise a bigger stink about the reverse Robin Hood bill?
posted by Emmy Rae at 11:44 AM on December 4 [5 favorites +] [!]

One of the fiercest proponents of net neutrality was Al Franken, who argues it should even apply to Google, Facebook, et al. Make of that what you will.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:54 PM on December 4, 2017


I’m hearing that our terrible racist governor has invited this horrible president to the grand opening of Mississippi’s Civil Rights Museum Saturday in Jackson. And I could BITE SOMETHING. What a freaking farce. I feel sorry for the people who have worked hard for this museum. I’m looking to see what’s going on in the way of protesting the president’s visit without further negatively impacting the museum. I’m physically sick to my stomach.
posted by thebrokedown at 1:56 PM on December 4, 2017 [23 favorites]


when/if the Ds hold the senate, i have a suggestion. pass a blank piece of paper under reconciliation, then fix it in conference.
posted by j_curiouser at 1:57 PM on December 4, 2017 [20 favorites]


I believe Obama certainly could have made recess appointments in early January when one Congress ended and another commenced. No-one could argue that wasn't a recess.

A recess appointment would only continue till the subsequent Senate session ended. Since those are only 2 years long you'd still end up with Trump seating a justice. I would wager that folks who are Serious About Norms and less concerned with the day to day cost of the struggle would view the supposed costs to the SC's perceived legitimacy to be too high. You also would have the situation where your nominee needs to be okay with being a 2 year justice and a weird footnote in history, potentially subject to litigation about their position for all that time, and as I recall there's the question of the Court itself refusing to seat a member.

I'm sort of ambivalent on the question of whether it should have been done anyway, but it's worth not just hand-waving away what the result of this action would have been. We're all sort of in the everything is crazy all the time mindset now after this clown-car administration, but this would have been the first of the crazy rather than Trump kicking all of them off himself.
posted by phearlez at 1:58 PM on December 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


BAIL REVOKED: "the newly discovered facts cast doubt on Manafort's willingness to comply ... " because Manafort ghost-wrote an Op-Ed for Ukraine.
(Spencer Hsu, WaPo)

Leopard, spots, etc, eating face, etc., etc.
posted by Dashy at 2:04 PM on December 4, 2017 [45 favorites]


Also a very nice read: George Papadopoulos' late night with the FBI (Josh Gerstein, Politico)
When former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos stepped off a flight from Germany at Dulles Airport outside Washington last July, he had no inkling of the unwelcome surprise in store for him: FBI agents waiting to place him under arrest.

For the 29-year-old Chicago native, it was going to be a long night.

... Precisely what Papadopoulos did in recent months to aid the government remains unclear and the subject of speculation among Trump aides and former campaign officials. Prosecutors seemed pleased with the cooperation because they dropped the obstruction charge and allowed him to plead guilty to the false statement charge.
posted by Dashy at 2:08 PM on December 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


By "ghost-wrote an Op-Ed," we're talking about literally last week.

@hsu_spencer: #BREAKING U.S: As late as Nov 30, 2017, Manafort was ghostwriting an editorial in English regarding his political work for Ukraine with colleague Konstantin Kilimnik, in Russia "and assessed to have ties to a Russian intelligence service." @PostRoz @DevlinBarrett

(Here's the DOJ's full filing with the court)
posted by zachlipton at 2:09 PM on December 4, 2017 [32 favorites]


Church blatantly telling people to Vote Roy Moore.

Can't have a Johnson amendment if it's not actually enforced, right?
posted by Talez at 2:14 PM on December 4, 2017 [43 favorites]


Dumb question about the corporate AMT screw-up: with respect to cybertaur1's digging on conference-committee content, is lowering the AMT rate something they could do in conference without 60 votes in the Senate? As I understand it, the House bill repeals the AMT outright, so they could slip that language in on a 50-vote threshold, but weren't some of the Senate Republicans unwilling to dispense with the AMT totally? What's the score on this and is it a wedge which could maybe render the conference bill dead in the Senate no matter what they try to do with it?
posted by jackbishop at 2:14 PM on December 4, 2017


Either Manafort wrote that op-ed because he considers himself to be invulnerable to any legal system, or because someone ordered him to. Or he's dumb as hell, which I suppose shouldn't be ruled out.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:18 PM on December 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


What's the score on this and is it a wedge which could maybe render the conference bill dead in the Senate no matter what they try to do with it?

As I said upthread, the AMT can't be eliminated without increasing taxes on those not affected, i.e., the middle class and the poor. With the optics going south so quickly for the GOP, this would add non-buoyant weight to the sinking ship.
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:18 PM on December 4, 2017


> I was disappointed that Obama didn't fight more like a Republican on the Garland nomination.

I will never understand why Obama and the Democratic Party didn't go full court press on that; as it was, I think if I were a casual observer of politics I would have come away with the impression that Garland's non-seating was just a run-of-the-mill political disagreement between two reasonable parties rather than the outrageous breach of tradition and power-grab that it was.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:18 PM on December 4, 2017 [35 favorites]


Bail not revoked. The motion linked above is the SC arguing against bail modification sought by Manafort (GPS bracelet removal and permitted to leave home). Previously the SC had indicated agreement to bail modification, with some tweaks.
posted by notyou at 2:19 PM on December 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


People Are Mass Unfollowing John McCain After He Asked for Help Hitting 3 Million on Twitter

Many commenters citing his vote on the tax bill.
posted by zakur at 2:19 PM on December 4, 2017 [70 favorites]


The more the rural U.S. struggles, company officials said, the more places Dollar General has found to prosper.

I live in a very poor small town. We have two Dollar Generals and one very limited and overpriced supermarket. (No Walmart.) I never understand why people shop at the Dollar General because they only have name brand stuff, and I shop 30 miles away at a real grocery store and get all generics and it's way cheaper. But the people who shop there don't have transportation out of this town regularly: they're either too poor for a car or elderly or disabled or in some way not able to go 25-30 miles either direction to get to a decent store or the closest Wal-mart.

So this idea that Dollar General is the cheapest option out of some good will towards the poor is bullshit. They profit off of those with no other options by selling limited items at inflated prices. And just keep building more stores. (In case you don't know, basically nothing at Dollar General is a dollar. It's whatever they want, usually far more than the crappy product would be elsewhere.)
posted by threeturtles at 2:24 PM on December 4, 2017 [42 favorites]


People Are Mass Unfollowing John McCain After He Asked for Help Hitting 3 Million on Twitter

If only there were literally anything else going on in his professional or personal life other than twitter
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:30 PM on December 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


(For what it's worth, I think that DG article would make a great stand-alone FPP.)
posted by box at 2:31 PM on December 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


NYT, McFarland Contradicted Herself on Russia Contacts, Congressional Testimony Shows
An email sent during the transition by President Trump’s former deputy national security adviser, K.T. McFarland, appears to contradict testimony she gave to Congress over the summer about contacts between the Russian ambassador and Mr. Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn.

Ms. McFarland had told lawmakers that she did not discuss or know anything about interactions between Sergey I. Kislyak, who had been Moscow’s ambassador to the United States, and Mr. Flynn, according to Senate documents.

But emails obtained by The New York Times appear to undermine those statements. In a Dec. 29 message about newly imposed Obama administration sanctions against Russia for its election interference, Ms. McFarland, then serving on Mr. Trump’s transition team, told another transition official that Mr. Flynn would be talking to the Russian ambassador that evening.
Ruh-Roh.
posted by zachlipton at 2:31 PM on December 4, 2017 [53 favorites]


I wonder if someday we'll get an accounting of just what these people thought working in a Presidential administration was going to be like.
posted by rhizome at 2:38 PM on December 4, 2017 [22 favorites]


I will never understand why Obama and the Democratic Party didn't go full court press on that; as it was, I think if I were a casual observer of politics I would have come away with the impression that Garland's non-seating was just a run-of-the-mill political disagreement between two reasonable parties rather than the outrageous breach of tradition and power-grab that it was.

Not to excuse it, but my impression was that the DNC thought they would win the presidency, and that being overly contentious would lose them voters towards that end. It's better to win the presidency and seat Garland anyway, than it is to seat Garland and lose the presidency. Unfortunately they lost the presidency and didn't seat Garland. I think that what the DNC is (I hope) realizing is that the moderate conservative voter who decides they lever pull based on decorum is basically a fanciful unicorn of a creature, and that pandering towards them is a surefire way to lose electorally and strategically.
posted by codacorolla at 2:40 PM on December 4, 2017 [45 favorites]


Mueller hits it out of the park on page 3 of his opposition to modify bail.
The Court Should Deny Manafort’s Current Motion to Modify His Conditions of Release

Because Manafort has now taken actions that reflect an intention to violate or circumvent the Court’s existing Orders, at a time one would expect particularly scrupulous adherence, the government submits that the proposed bail package is insufficient reasonably to assure his appearance as required.
Someone's not getting their ankle bracelet off.
posted by mikelieman at 2:47 PM on December 4, 2017 [38 favorites]


Not wanting to abuse the edit function, Mueller worked UNITED STATES v. GIGANTE into this.

This is going to work out OK!
posted by mikelieman at 2:50 PM on December 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


I think this Slate article by Yascha Mounk is important: What We Talk About When We Talk About Donald Trump
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:57 PM on December 4, 2017 [15 favorites]


> I wonder if someday we'll get an accounting of just what these people thought working in a Presidential administration was going to be like.

It seems like a lot of them thought (and still think!) that this was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to catch a ride on the Trump Train all the way to the top of Ill Gotten Gains Mountain, where Trump already resided in his gilded palace. And who can blame them? Others, of course, saw it as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to hurt and kill people with the full power of the American government behind them. Or both.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:59 PM on December 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


Docs to share, for people who want to look for excerpts and quotes to pester their congressfolk or share online:

Tax Bill document, OCR'd and with bookmarks added, including bookmarks noting the handwritten sections. (Some of them are very minor, like crossing out a date and changing it.)

Outline of Contents - no page numbers (except for handwritten notes), but the sections are nicely sequential. Disclaimer: There may be typos.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:05 PM on December 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


That Mounk article makes a generally decent point, one that we've all been grappling with... but it gets rather insanely both-side-ist when support for the Zapatistas is identified as one of the historical antecedent of supporting Stalin.

After all, perfectly decent people who seemed to hold perfectly admirable principles have, again and again, become deeply complicit with authoritarianism. In the 1950s, parts of the Western left glorified Joseph Stalin; in the 1960s, the Viet Cong and Mao Zedong; in the 1970s, Tito and the Khmer Rouge; in the 1980s, the Baathist regime in Iraq and the Islamist regime in Iran; in the 1990s, the slaughterers in Serbia and the Zapatistas in Mexico; in the 2000s, the dictators of Latin America and the terrorists of Hezbollah; in the 2010s, Bashar al-Assad and Vladimir Putin.

("See? The Left ALSO totally have this SAME tendency to support authoritarianism: people supported autonomous indigenous sovereignty in Chiapas in the 90s!").
posted by eyesontheroad at 3:12 PM on December 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


The more the rural U.S. struggles, company officials said, the more places Dollar General has found to prosper.

It is the height of irony that the junior Senator from Georgia, David Perdue, is a former CEO of Dollar General. Before that he was the CEO of a textile company called Pillowtex, which bought up existing mills and then liquidated them, moving the jobs overseas. Perdue was personally responsible for closing the Fieldcrest Cannon mills in North Carolina.

His cousin Sonny Perdue is the former governor of Georgia and Trump's Secretary of Agriculture. It's just corruption all the way down in the Perdue family.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:14 PM on December 4, 2017 [38 favorites]


Economic Policy Institute, Proposed rule would protect employers who steal workers’ hard-earned tips
Today the Trump administration took their first major step towards allowing employers to legally take tips earned by the workers they employ. The Department of Labor released a proposed rule rescinding portions of its tip regulations, including current restrictions on “tip pooling”—which would mean that, for example, restaurants would be able to pool the tips servers receive and share them with untipped employees such as cooks and dishwashers. But, crucially, the rule doesn’t actually require that employers distribute pooled tips to workers. Under the administration’s proposed rule, as long as the tipped workers earn minimum wage, the employer can legally pocket those tips.
This would still be prohibited by state law in many places, but this is just cartoonishly evil.
posted by zachlipton at 3:14 PM on December 4, 2017 [79 favorites]


Another troubling policy from Labor Secretary The Guy From Amy's Baking Company
posted by theodolite at 3:19 PM on December 4, 2017 [22 favorites]


As late as Nov 30, 2017, Manafort was ghostwriting an editorial in English regarding his political work for Ukraine with colleague Konstantin Kilimnik, in Russia "and assessed to have ties to a Russian intelligence service."

Never forget: "The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:25 PM on December 4, 2017 [15 favorites]


NYT, McFarland Contradicted Herself on Russia Contacts, Congressional Testimony Shows


Lest we forget, McFarland write this op/ed in 2013...


Fox: Putin is the one who really deserves that Nobel Peace Prize
posted by chris24 at 3:27 PM on December 4, 2017 [26 favorites]


After all, perfectly decent people who seemed to hold perfectly admirable principles have, again and again, become deeply complicit with authoritarianism. In the 1950s, parts of the Western left glorified Joseph Stalin; in the 1960s, the Viet Cong and Mao Zedong; in the 1970s, Tito and the Khmer Rouge; in the 1980s, the Baathist regime in Iraq and the Islamist regime in Iran; in the 1990s, the slaughterers in Serbia and the Zapatistas in Mexico; in the 2000s, the dictators of Latin America and the terrorists of Hezbollah; in the 2010s, Bashar al-Assad and Vladimir Putin.

Conflating Tito and Pol Pot is so wildly inapposite as to be obscene.
posted by Aubergine at 3:27 PM on December 4, 2017 [17 favorites]


Under the administration’s proposed rule, as long as the tipped workers earn minimum wage, the employer can legally pocket those tips.

Standard minimum wage, or the reduced minimum wage they have for restaurant employees whose income is expected to come largely from tips?
posted by acb at 3:34 PM on December 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


Tip-Sharing document (pdf):
"The Department is therefore proposing to rescind the parts of its tip regulations that bar tipsharing
arrangements in establishments where the employers pay full Federal minimum wage
and do not take a tip credit against their minimum wage obligations. This proposed rule applies
only to employers that pay direct cash wages of at least the Federal minimum wage and do not
take a tip credit. It does not apply to employers who pay less than the Federal minimum wage
and take a tip credit."

Looks like it only applies to situations where the tipped workers are paid at least federal minimum wage - which is all of them in California and a few other states, and includes those in fancier restaurants and bars in other places, where at least federal min wage is standard.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:40 PM on December 4, 2017 [4 favorites]



After all, perfectly decent people who seemed to hold perfectly admirable principles have, again and again, become deeply complicit with authoritarianism. In the 1950s, parts of the Western left glorified Joseph Stalin; in the 1960s, the Viet Cong and Mao Zedong; in the 1970s, Tito and the Khmer Rouge; in the 1980s, the Baathist regime in Iraq and the Islamist regime in Iran; in the 1990s, the slaughterers in Serbia and the Zapatistas in Mexico; in the 2000s, the dictators of Latin America and the terrorists of Hezbollah; in the 2010s, Bashar al-Assad and Vladimir Putin.


I’d be willing to bet money that, at NO time in any of those eras/examples has any percentage of the “Western left” supported those entities to the degree that the “Western right” supports the authoritarianism we’ve seen espoused by DJFT.

No, President Dumbass isn’t Stalin by any stretch...but he is still an authoritarian. And though he hasn’t directed the murder of millions, he is nevertheless doing his best to use his power autocratically to disenfranchise, demean and deprive millions of their civil liberties.

There simply is no equivalent impulse toward authoritarianism on the left in the US that equates to the conservative impulse here. It’s a ridiculous assertion. For god’s sake, there are millions of conservatives who are fawning all over Putin right now because of his “strong” authoritarian despotism toward political dissenters, journalists, homosexuals and even US diplomats!
posted by darkstar at 3:49 PM on December 4, 2017 [22 favorites]


So the House is supposed to be voting to send the tax bill to conference right now, but a bunch of Freedom Caucus folks are voting no, not because of the tax bill, but because they want to wreck the deal to pass a 2-week continuing resolution to keep the government from shutting down in a few days. A few non Freedom Caucus Republicans are also voting no because they want to preserve the state and local tax deduction. This is quickly becoming a thing.
posted by zachlipton at 3:57 PM on December 4, 2017 [32 favorites]


Welp, Cernovich has successfully collected Sam Seder’s scalp.

MSNBC, you’re a tower of Jell-O.
posted by non canadian guy at 4:02 PM on December 4, 2017 [17 favorites]


GOP leadership talked the Freedom Caucus off the ledge somehow. They have the votes to go to conference. Which just leaves the question: what did they promise in return?
posted by zachlipton at 4:06 PM on December 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


I feel like I missed it somewhere...How was something this sweeping immune to filibuster? Did they drop filibuster as a thing, or just declare that this wasn't subject to it?
posted by Shutter at 4:15 PM on December 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Shutter: the senate budget reconciliation rules allow certain budget legislation to be passed by a simple majority - no filibuster. This very attractive situation has caused the current leadership to shoehorn ACA repeal and tax reform into a majority decides vote with no possibility of filibuster.
posted by Emmy Noether at 4:18 PM on December 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


It's a "budget reconciliation;" it's immune to filibuster as long as it doesn't change "too much," which is mostly decided on financial lines within certain time limits - hence the phasing out of certain cuts after a number of years.

I don't know what they can do about a Byrd Rule violation caused by last-minute changes.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:20 PM on December 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


I just...how does opening up the ANWR fall under reconciliation? How did they declare it didn't change too much when no one had a chance to read it?
posted by Shutter at 4:23 PM on December 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


Tomorrow, NY Judge could order Trump to testify in sexual assault case.

The defamation suit filed in January in the New York State Supreme Court by Zervos, a short-lived contestant on “The Apprentice,” has reached a critical point, with oral arguments over Trump’s motion to dismiss scheduled for Tuesday, after which the judge is expected to rule on whether the case may move forward.

If it proceeds, Zervos’s attorneys could gather and make public incidents from Trump’s past and Trump could be called to testify, with the unwelcome specter of a former president looming over him: It was Bill Clinton’s misleading sworn testimony — not the repeated allegations of sexual harassment against him — that eventually led to his impeachment.

A question for our legal experts: what happens if he's called to testify and he just refuses to do so? I mean, I'm guessing you or I would be held in contempt of court, but what happens if someone like the president does it? Has this ever happened before?
posted by bluecore at 4:28 PM on December 4, 2017 [30 favorites]


what happens if he's called to testify and he just refuses to do so? I mean, I'm guessing you or I would be held in contempt of court, but what happens if someone like the president does it?

1) He gets judged in contempt of court, with a penalty that has no teeth for now.

2) Most likely, the judge throws out his side's case - no defendant testimony = no verification of their claims; plaintiff must be telling the complete truth, right?

Judges are not happy with people who try to claim, "I'm above paying attention to your court."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:35 PM on December 4, 2017 [30 favorites]


GOP leadership talked the Freedom Caucus off the ledge somehow. They have the votes to go to conference. Which just leaves the question: what did they promise in return?

Apparently they gave into the HFC's demands for the CR through the 30th, instead of the 22nd. And that's all? Completely unclear why a shutdown date right before New Years is preferable to right before Christmas, but that seems to be the HFC's argument.

Regardless of the date, Democrats should withhold all votes for this CR and the full budget without concessions, either DACA, CHIP, funding the Obamacare CSRs, or all of the above. Delaying the funding fight does nothing to help Democrats as the DACA deadline is in March, and the debt ceiling will be coming up again, which will reduce Dems' leverage to extract concessions.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:39 PM on December 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


MSNBC/NBC/KableTown were dead to me about five unforgivable hiring/firing decisions ago, but the Seder thing is total BS. Between that and Joy Reid's homophobic comments that were unearthed recently, MSNBC can finally realize their dream of being a lite beer version of Fox News.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:02 PM on December 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


Fox News is state media propaganda. MSNBC is insufficiently brave in standing up to right wing smearjobs. If you can seriously compare the two networks I conclude you've either never seen Fox News or you've never seen MSNBC!
posted by Justinian at 5:21 PM on December 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


Wow, TPM covering the giant fuck you to Native Americans and the environment and the entire taxpaying public with the headline Trump Announces Shrinking Two Sprawling National Monuments. That reads as the most generous possible framing for a deeply shitty act, like they are making some reasonable decision to curtail...sprawl? Of a National Monument? I usually really enjoy TPM, this is disappointing.
posted by lazaruslong at 5:27 PM on December 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


I usually really enjoy TPM, this is disappointing.

I see it’s an AP story. Maybe the headline is original to them? (AP, I mean.)
posted by non canadian guy at 5:34 PM on December 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


re: monuments.

patagonia.com showing headline writers how to do it.
posted by bluecore at 5:58 PM on December 4, 2017 [67 favorites]


RE Joy Reid: she used to write a blog. On it, she often criticized FL Gov Charlie Crist, using derisive, homophobic slurs. They included calling him a closeted gay politician, calling him Miss Charlie, suggesting he was only married twice so he could get ahead in politics, and musing on his inner dialogue during his honeymoon (when she imagined he lusted after a male waiter and dreaded having to sleep with his wife), etc.

She did write an apology which, to my ear, sounded like weaksauce (a somewhat passive acceptance of responsibility, I thought, but YMMV).

She’s definitely a powerful liberal voice, but it made me lose some respect for her. I don’t think she should lose her job, but I can’t quite enjoy watching her anymore.
posted by darkstar at 6:14 PM on December 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


I’d be willing to bet money that, at NO time in any of those eras/examples has any percentage of the “Western left” supported those entities to the degree that the “Western right” supports the authoritarianism we’ve seen espoused by DJFT.

I think this is missing the point the article's trying to make here: support for authoritarianism isn't part of any one ideology, and that tracks with the evidence that I've seen. It's a cancer that infects an ideology, and some ideologies are more vulnerable than others, but the root of it can be any belief system, even a trivial one. Just because the most prominent example of this cancer right now are 2010-era Republicans doesn't mean that it's inherent to conservatism. The rugged individualism of American culture is a risk factor, which muddies the waters even more. If the left-wing party in America was the Libertarian Party, though, it'd be just as vulnerable to drinking its own kool-aid.
posted by Merus at 6:15 PM on December 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


Mod note: Folks, general thing, let's not get off into arguing each side topic (how to sort out examples of authoritarians; what about MSN vs Fox; etc).
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 6:18 PM on December 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


The RNC is back to formally supporting Roy Moore.

Mitt Romney might want to call his niece or something.
posted by zachlipton at 6:28 PM on December 4, 2017 [26 favorites]


Well Fox went off the god damned deep end tonight. Flynn is apparently being framed by the FBI and this is the Deep State at work. They're laying down cover on all angles. A president can commit whatever he wants, Peter Strzok is behind an FBI conspiracy, go fire Mueller!

It's like a batshit insane Youtube conspiracy channel was given airtime on a major national cable network.
posted by Talez at 6:29 PM on December 4, 2017 [40 favorites]


The RNC is back to formally supporting Roy Moore.

The 1950s Klan had higher morals than today's GOP.

@AlanLCross
In 1957, Rev. Alvin C. Horn, of Talladega, AL, resigned as Grand Dragon of the KKK in Alabama because he, being 45, married 15 yr. old Barbara Richardson of Trenton, GA. He lied and said she was 20. The KLAN IN 1957 thought that was wrong (from Montgomery Advertiser, 1961).
NEWS CLIPPING
posted by chris24 at 6:40 PM on December 4, 2017 [88 favorites]


Bernie Becker, Sarah Ferris and Colin Wilhelm, Politico.com: House conservatives almost topple tax vote
House conservatives threatened to derail a key tax vote on Monday in an attempt to win more influence over the GOP's spending strategy, just four days before the deadline to fund the government.

In a dramatic political stunt, more than a dozen members of the House Freedom Caucus withheld their support for a crucial procedural vote on the GOP’s tax bill, threatening an embarrassing blow to GOP leadership.

The conservatives eventually relented, approving what had been thought to be a formality — a motion to appoint negotiators to hammer out a final tax bill with the Senate.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:47 PM on December 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


The RNC is back to formally supporting Roy Moore.

Mitt Romney might want to call his niece or something.


Romney talks a good game about not sacrificing honor for a political victory. But I still remember his campaign airing an ad showing Obama quoting McCain saying “If we talk about the economy, we lose,” but cropping the lead-in so it sounded like Obama was uttering those words himself.

And when challenged on it by a journalist, he defended his campaign’s use of the brazen deception by smugly saying “What’s sauce for the goose is now sauce for the gander.”

Romney’s only good at championing honor over politics when neither are his own.
posted by darkstar at 6:58 PM on December 4, 2017 [36 favorites]


Romney will vote against Trump exactly as often as Ben Sasse and Jeff Flake do, because that's the #NeverTrump creed. Talk to the media a lot about how concerned you are, but never do anything about it because tax cuts. Let's not forget Romney was one of the first to kiss the ring and beg for a cabinet appointment.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:03 PM on December 4, 2017 [36 favorites]


@davidfrum
At his trial in 1649, Charles I defended himself: ""No learned lawyer will affirm that an impeachment can lie against the King... one of their maxims is, that the King can do no wrong." The great-grandfathers of the authors of the Constitution cut off Charles' head for that.

---

@speechboy71 (Michael Cohen, Boston Globe)
It's amazing to think that 8 years ago, Republicans lost their s**t over Obama calling the actions of a Cambridge police officer "stupid" and today are unbothered by POTUS calling the FBI the "worst in history"
posted by chris24 at 7:04 PM on December 4, 2017 [132 favorites]


Susan Collins is a either a liar, or an innumerate moron: The Republican War on Economics

An incredulous [Chuck] Todd asked Collins how she could defend such a claim when every study has concluded the opposite. She cited Glenn Hubbard, Larry Lindsey, and Douglas Holtz-Eakin.

Jennifer Rubin got ahold of two of the three, Hubbard and Holtz-Eakin. Both economists denied having ever claimed the Republican tax cuts would produce enough growth to recoup the lost revenue.
...
No serious economist believes this, but their skepticism did not infiltrate the information bubble in which Republicans reside. Not even macroeconomic forecasters in the private sector — people putting real money behind the accuracy of their analyses — have concluded the tax cuts would come close to recouping their cost. Goldman Sachs forecasts the tax cuts would recoup just 20 percent of the lost revenue, and beginning in 2020, the growth effect “looks minimal and could actually be slightly negative.” A survey of 42 economists found only one who even agreed that, if the tax cut passes, economic growth “will be substantially higher a decade from now than under the status quo.” And even that endorsement of “substantially higher” growth falls short of endorsing the belief the tax cuts will be self-financing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:21 PM on December 4, 2017 [38 favorites]


Mod note: Couple deleted -- if you haven't seen it, please check out this Metatalk thread about re-setting the norms in the megathreads; short version, we're cutting back on stuff like song lyrics. Maybe pop 'em over in the Metatalk instead?
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:36 PM on December 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


More on that BuzzFeed report last week: The Intercept, Matthew Cole, Jeremy Scahill, Trump White House Weighing Plans for Private Spies to Counter “Deep State” Enemies
The Trump administration is considering a set of proposals developed by Blackwater founder Erik Prince and a retired CIA officer — with assistance from Oliver North, a key figure in the Iran-Contra scandal — to provide CIA Director Mike Pompeo and the White House with a global, private spy network that would circumvent official U.S. intelligence agencies, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials and others familiar with the proposals. The sources say the plans have been pitched to the White House as a means of countering “deep state” enemies in the intelligence community seeking to undermine Trump’s presidency.

The creation of such a program raises the possibility that the effort would be used to create an intelligence apparatus to justify the Trump administration’s political agenda.

“Pompeo can’t trust the CIA bureaucracy, so we need to create this thing that reports just directly to him,” said a former senior U.S. intelligence official with firsthand knowledge of the proposals, in describing White House discussions. “It is a direct-action arm, totally off the books,” this person said, meaning the intelligence collected would not be shared with the rest of the CIA or the larger intelligence community. “The whole point is this is supposed to report to the president and Pompeo directly.”
Among the many problems here, why is it always the same damn assholes? Erik Prince is under investigation for his secret trip to the Seychelles, and Ollie North, well, committed felonies. We're busy throwing people off MSNBC because of one old satirical tweet, but Olver North is somehow once again allowed within 100 miles of a plot to do off-the-books shady stuff for the President? It is profoundly unfair the number of people struggling with imposter syndrome at work, the number of people who get fired because their boss made them choose between their job and taking their sick kid to the doctor, when these same assholes keep getting to come back again and again with no consequences for their actions.
posted by zachlipton at 8:18 PM on December 4, 2017 [108 favorites]


Trump's Mirror strikes again - to 'counter' the 'Deep State', the Trumpsters are essentially creating their own 'Deep State'.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:29 PM on December 4, 2017 [16 favorites]


On the bright side, the press pool grew an actual spine today and refused to let the deputy press secretary go off the record to talk about Roy Moore or Flynn or any other questions:
Q: We have to ask the questions--
A: I understand that, you have a job to do and so do I.
Q: You're not doing your job. Your job is literally to take questions from us. That's the whole point of this. You can release paper statements if you want.
posted by zachlipton at 8:36 PM on December 4, 2017 [143 favorites]


Ollie North, well, committed felonies

"felonies"? Make no mistake, Ollie North committed high treason and if it wasn't for Fawn Hall's shredder he would be rotting in a jail cell in the Colorado rockies.
posted by Talez at 8:51 PM on December 4, 2017 [46 favorites]


Prince's Shhh, We're Spies! Inc. is already off to a great start. Because saying you'll be at war with the US intelligence community is a great heads up to, you know, the tens of thousands of individuals serving.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 9:01 PM on December 4, 2017 [13 favorites]


Handy recap/context of the past week revelations of the Trump Transition's Russian relations by Georgetown professor. and Former Obama Deputy Assistant and National Security Advisor Colin Kahl @ColinKahl:
threadSeparate from the very real possibility of Trump-Russia collusion, the Flynn revelations this week speak to a clear pattern of behavior by both Team Trump and GOP leadership: conspiring to go easy on the Kremlin despite Russian interference in our election. 1/
[...]
Fast forward to December, after the election, when Obama retaliated by expelling Russian diplomats and sanctioning Russian entities. Flynn—with full knowledge of Team Trump—immediately interceded to undermine that policy by calling Kislyak. … 9/
Think about that. Russia had just attacked our democracy, and Team Trump’s immediate instinct and TOP priority was to weaken the response and reassure our adversary it was no big deal. A similar point is made here by @AshaRangappa … 10/
The key question is WHY?
This is where the now infamous KT McFarland email comes in (key excerpt below via @nytmike).
Beyond showing that Team Trump was witting of Flynn’s actions, there are at least two interpretations of this email. 11/
One possibility is that McFarland’s email reveals the quid pro quo at the heart of alleged collusion: sanctions relief as pay back given that Russia has just “thrown USA election to [Trump]." That’s the interpretation many took away from the NYT story. … 12/
But even the most generous interpretation of McFarland’s email suggests that, at the very least, the Trump campaign knew Russia had helped them and worried that going soft on Putin would be *perceived* as payback even if there was no actual collusion. 13/
So they lied, systematically from Trump on down, about the reassuring outreach to Russia during the transition to avoid this politically costly perception. A similar point was made by @davidfrum … 14/
Look, I have no idea if there was direct collaboration between the Trump campaign & Moscow to undermine our democracy (although the circumstantial case is pretty overwhelming).
But, regardless, here’s what’s undeniable… 15/
It’s undeniable that:
—Team Trump & GOP leadership were witting of Russia’s attack in real time;
—They were all-too happy to politically benefit from it; and
—They actively and repeatedly sought to constrain efforts to make Russia pay for it.
That’s all pretty damning. 16/16
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:04 PM on December 4, 2017 [68 favorites]


Senator John Kennedy (R, Louisiana) on Friday referring to the tax bill, recently shown from another camera angle on MSNBC:
Part of politics is drama. Everyone up here has politics in his blood. Kind of like herpes.
posted by XMLicious at 9:19 PM on December 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


So Never Trumper extraordinaire Rick Wilson gets up on CNN and...
"I think Republicans are going to regret embracing Roy Moore because their poll ratings with women are going to drop faster than Roy Moore's trousers at a high school cheerleading tournament. This is not a good situation. This is a guy who is a filthy and perverse individual. He doesn't belong in the U.S. Senate."
Someone has some brass ones because holy shit that was glorious to watch.
posted by Talez at 9:24 PM on December 4, 2017 [67 favorites]


Prince's Shhh, We're Spies! Inc. is already off to a great start. Because saying you'll be at war with the US intelligence community is a great heads up to, you know, the tens of thousands of individuals serving.

And that's courtesy of "several current and former U.S. intelligence officials and others familiar with the proposals" who fed this story to the Intercept.

Pompeo, lacking any qualifications in intelligence, in the general and technical senses, attracted the suspicions of the Langley establishment early on in his tenure and now seems intent on confirming them. Like Manafort, he appears to think he can play at cloak and dagger with the professionals.

And speaking of idiots who are out of their depth in the espionage world, Rep. Dana Rohrabacher to testify before House Intelligence Committee about Julian Assange meeting for what will be a nonstop disinfo-rama.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:26 PM on December 4, 2017 [17 favorites]


Mod note: Roy Moore stuff can go over to the Roy Moore thread
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:27 PM on December 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


NPR today: 2016 RNC Delegate: Trump Directed Change To Party Platform On Ukraine Support
Diana Denman, a Republican delegate who supported arming U.S. allies in Ukraine, has told people that Trump aide J.D. Gordon said at the Republican Convention in 2016 that Trump directed him to support weakening that position in the official platform.

Ultimately, the softer position was adopted.
Washington Post, July 18, 2016: Trump campaign guts GOP’s anti-Russia stance on Ukraine
The Trump campaign worked behind the scenes last week to make sure the new Republican platform won’t call for giving weapons to Ukraine to fight Russian and rebel forces, contradicting the view of almost all Republican foreign policy leaders in Washington.

Throughout the campaign, Trump has been dismissive of calls for supporting the Ukraine government as it fights an ongoing Russian-led intervention. Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, worked as a lobbyist for the Russian-backed former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych for more than a decade.

Still, Republican delegates at last week’s national security committee platform meeting in Cleveland were surprised when the Trump campaign orchestrated a set of events to make sure that the GOP would not pledge to give Ukraine the weapons it has been asking for from the United States.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:28 PM on December 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


NPR today: 2016 RNC Delegate: Trump Directed Change To Party Platform On Ukraine Support

Delegate Diana Denman's been trying to get people to listen her account of meeting JD Gordon at the RNC for a long time, e.g.:
Never saw him before in my life. I had never run into him before. I had no idea who he was.

There were two men sitting over to the side and I didn’t know who they were and I didn’t know if they were staff or why they were there, but they were not sitting around our table with the delegates.

When I read my plank, when it came my turn in the subcommittee, he and the other man got up pretty rapidly and walked up over behind the three co-chairman, and one of the chairman asked to see a copy of my plank and I gave it to them, and the chairman read it and the men leaned over and pointed to certain things on it.

So, that point, I realized for some reason they felt they were involved and one of the chairman said they would like to table it for further review, or something like that. And so I let it pass and the men went over and sat down and discussion of other planks continued.

I didn’t sit there forever and so I went over to them and said, "I guess you know who I am but I don’t know who you all are and I don’t know why you’re here and if you have apparently a problem with my plank on the Ukraine I’d like to know what your problem is because I might have a problem with you all if I find out what your problem is with me."
This lady is going to give the House and Senate Intelligence committees an earful next week.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:39 PM on December 4, 2017 [78 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** 2018 House:
-- MI-09 rep Sandy Levin [D] is retiring. This is a lean Dem district (Clinton 52-44), although I would imagine it's relatively safe in the 2018 environment.

-- Part 3 of the Vice series on Dem target districts.

-- Dems currently have one or more filed challengers in all but 29 of the 241 GOP-held House seats.
** Odds & ends:
-- Gallup poll finds Dem party ID advantage growing. Was 44/42 in Nov 16, now 44/37.

-- The Hill: Dems plan ambitious campaign for red-state governorships

-- Rick Jeffares resigned his seat in the Georgia State Senate to run for Lt. Gov. This sets up a special election, district went Trump 57-41.

-- Sexual harassment scandal in Kentucky legislature is getting very heated.

=> Numerous special elections tomorrow (here's some background) plus the Atlanta mayoral runoff. I haven't been following that one, particularly, but it looks like intra-Dem tensions may be setting us up for an own goal there.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:04 PM on December 4, 2017 [36 favorites]


National Treasure IMHO Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Is this monument for keeping or destroying? A handy Q&A.
Given President Trump’s recent activity with regard to Bears Ears and Grand Staircase-Escalante national monuments in Utah, I think we had better clarify the guidelines for what is a Rare and Precious National Monument That Must Be Preserved at All Costs and what isn’t.

First, look at it. Ask yourself, does it spark joy? Then, also ask yourself the following:

1. Would President Barack Obama have looked at it and felt happy?

2. Is it more than a million acres of land that include sites sacred to five Indian nations and places of breathtaking natural beauty?

3. Was it on the right side of the Civil War, geographically speaking or otherwise?

4. Would it be weird to call it Jeff or “the Old General”?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:27 PM on December 4, 2017 [30 favorites]


In the spirit of celebrating small victories, I'm taking the launch today of the State Department's revamped travel website travel.state.gov as proof that the stateside career bureaucrats are still getting shit done despite the 'dismantling' of the department. They opened a comment period in the third quarter of last year, digested all of the information for a few months, and then in February released their takeaways from the process. Today the new site was implemented. That's not a terrible timeline for a project like this. The site looks a lot less cluttered than the old one, and at first glance seems to have implemented a bunch of the suggestions I made, yay.
posted by carsonb at 11:38 PM on December 4, 2017 [34 favorites]


Donald Trump's personal banking information handed over to Robert Mueller
Donald Trump’s personal banking information has formally been turned over to Robert Mueller, the special prosecutor who is investigating whether the president’s campaign conspired with the Kremlin during the 2016 presidential election.
Bloomberg reported early on Tuesday that Deutsche Bank, the German bank that serves as Trump’s biggest lender, had been forced to submit documents about its client relationship with the president after Mueller issued the bank with a subpoena for information.

This was where Trump was drawing the line as to where the investigation was allowed to go. Mueller must be confident that he won't be fired over this.... right?
posted by PenDevil at 3:43 AM on December 5, 2017 [79 favorites]


Bloomberg, Steven Arons, Mueller Subpoenas Trump Deutsche Bank Records
Mueller issued a subpoena to Germany’s largest lender several weeks ago, forcing the bank to submit documents on its relationship with Trump and his family, according to a person briefed on the matter, who asked not to be identified because the action has not been announced.
...
In July, Trump said in an interview with the New York Times that if Mueller examined his family’s finances beyond any relationship with Russia he’d consider it "a violation." Mueller’s investigation had expanded to examine a broad range of transactions involving the president’s businesses, including dealings by his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, a person familiar with the probe told Bloomberg News after the publication of the Times interview.
This might help explain why Trump has seemed even more angry than usual lately. It's a clear sign that Trump is personally under investigation, despite his insistence to the contrary, and that the investigation into Trump goes well beyond obstruction for firing Comey.
posted by zachlipton at 3:45 AM on December 5, 2017 [52 favorites]


Maybe Mueller is inviting Trump to fire him. Once the evidence is all there, what we need is an inciting event to force everyone to wake up from the bullshit. Maybe Mueller getting fired could be it.
posted by Glibpaxman at 4:03 AM on December 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


The deadline for Trump signing the waiver on moving the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem has now passed, but apparently it doesn't actually matter anyway:
Trump missing embassy waiver deadline by a few days is no big deal, experts say

However, a "US-Israeli law professor" cautions that "accepted practice is at odds with the statute, and a bad guide to the future under a new administration". I concur; it's not even a year into the new administration and when it comes to foreign relations it's probably a bad idea for Trump to allow a precedent to be set for anything other than punctilious adherence to duty.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:07 AM on December 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


This was where Trump was drawing the line as to where the investigation was allowed to go. Mueller must be confident that he won't be fired over this.... right?

If Mueller is getting the Deutsche Bank's records for the Trump Crime Family, that's also going to be material for Schneiderman's NY Money Laundering/Trump Foundation issues cases.

In theory, putting aside that Trump is irrational, fire Mueller, Schneiderman files a whole lot of unpardonable charges in NY.
posted by mikelieman at 4:25 AM on December 5, 2017 [29 favorites]


This was where Trump was drawing the line as to where the investigation was allowed to go. Mueller must be confident that he won't be fired over this.... right?

If Mueller is fired, then it's assumed there are separate cases that could be prosecuted by New York's attorney general.
posted by ZeusHumms at 4:40 AM on December 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


If Meuller if fired, and Congress doesn't act on it, we're uberplus fucked, right? It's been the thing I've been worrying about since the passage in the tax bill in the senate sort of proved that at least under certain conditions, norms don't matter anymore.
posted by angrycat at 4:43 AM on December 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


Greg Sargent, WaPo Opinion Column: It’s time to ask every Republican this question about Trump and Mueller
In coming days and weeks, we should all do whatever we can to ensure that every Republican member of Congress, in town hall meetings, via social media and during scrums with reporters, is asked the following question:

If President Trump tries to remove special counsel Robert S. Mueller III, would you view that as an impeachable offense?
posted by ZeusHumms at 4:44 AM on December 5, 2017 [57 favorites]


-- Gallup poll finds Dem party ID advantage growing. Was 44/42 in Nov 16, now 44/37

While we're always amazed and horrified by Trump's support among Rs, a big part of the resilience of that number is that Rs who are disgusted with him are leaving the party. The 42 to 37 decline means 12% of Rs have been turned off enough to leave the party.

His R approval right now is 78%, but even that has dropped from 89% when he took office. So he's lost 12% of the R base here as well. Adding those who now disapprove and those who left the party, he's burned through about 25% of Republicans in ten months. If you assume those who no longer identify as R don't approve of Trump and gross up the number to reflect the 12% loss, his approval among Rs would be 70%, which is a huge danger zone for presidents.
posted by chris24 at 4:57 AM on December 5, 2017 [48 favorites]


Mueller Subpoenas Trump Deutsche Bank Records

I think this qualifies as the second day of Mueller's advent calendar.
posted by Dashy at 5:03 AM on December 5, 2017 [56 favorites]


Mueller Subpoenas Trump Deutsche Bank Records

@krassenstein
BREAKING: Deutsche Bank receives subpoena from Mueller on Trump accounts

This is huge for 2 reasons:
- Deutsch Bank paid DOJ settlement for involvement in $10b Russian money laundering scheme
- Kushner took $285m loan from them right before election.
posted by chris24 at 5:26 AM on December 5, 2017 [41 favorites]


Mayor Jim Gray of Lexington, Kentucky announces run against Andy Barr (KY-6). It's a PVI R+9 district, but has elected a Democrat in the not too distant past. Gray is popular in Lexington and is probably the strongest possible candidate despite his blowout loss to Rand Paul in the 2016 Senate race, he won 51% of the district.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:30 AM on December 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


THIS IS A TEST, THIS IS ONLY A TEST

If Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller is fired, visit the Mueller firing Rapid Response page for more information:

Use the map or search below by ZIP code to find an event near you, or create one if none exists.

Rallies will begin hours after news breaks of a Mueller firing:

If Mueller is fired BEFORE 2 P.M. local time —> events will begin @ 5 P.M. local time
If Mueller is fired AFTER 2 P.M. local time —> events will begin @ noon local time the following day
This is the general plan—please confirm details on your event page, as individual hosts may tailor their events to their local plan.

THIS IS ONLY A TEST
*beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep*
posted by petebest at 5:39 AM on December 5, 2017 [109 favorites]


Mueller Subpoenas Trump Deutsche Bank Records

I mean he's got to have Trump's taxes if he's doing this, right? We've had reports that the IRS has shared info with Mueller, possibly Trump's taxes. But this confirmation that he's going after Trump's finances seems to confirm it.
posted by chris24 at 5:41 AM on December 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


We've had reports that the IRS has shared info with Mueller, possibly Trump's taxes. But this confirmation that he's going after Trump's finances seems to confirm it.

The process is pretty straightforward, and I'm sure Mueller's got them.

IIRC: Mueller sends a request to the IRS. The IRS considers it, and if they release it, Mueller gets an IRC agent to help interpret them.

"IRC 6103(i)(1) provides that, pursuant to court order, return information may be shared with law enforcement agencies for investigation and prosecution of non-tax criminal laws."

So, if it takes is a court order, I'm sure that's one of the Under Seal things that's been taken care of years ago. ( In the Trump Time Expansion Vortex ), months realtime.
posted by mikelieman at 5:47 AM on December 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Between the Deutsche news and now this, Donny's gonna be lit tomorrow morning on Twitter. Pence plotted to force out Trump after Access Hollywood. And his wife thinks Trump's vile.

Atlantic: God’s Plan for Mike Pence - Will the vice president—and the religious right—be rewarded for their embrace of Donald Trump?
It’s been reported that Pence sent Trump a letter saying he needed time to decide whether he could stay with the campaign. But in fact, according to several Republicans familiar with the situation, he wasn’t just thinking about dropping out—he was contemplating a coup. Within hours of The Post’s bombshell, Pence made it clear to the Republican National Committee that he was ready to take Trump’s place as the party’s nominee. Such a move just four weeks before Election Day would have been unprecedented—but the situation seemed dire enough to call for radical action.

Already, Reince Priebus’s office was being flooded with panicked calls from GOP officials and donors urging the RNC chairman to get rid of Trump by whatever means necessary. One Republican senator called on the party to engage emergency protocols to nominate a new candidate. RNC lawyers huddled to explore an obscure legal mechanism by which they might force Trump off the ticket. Meanwhile, a small group of billionaires was trying to put together money for a “buyout”—even going so far as to ask a Trump associate how much money the candidate would require to walk away from the race. According to someone with knowledge of the talks, they were given an answer of $800 million. (It’s unclear whether Trump was aware of this discussion or whether the offer was actually made.) Republican donors and party leaders began buzzing about making Pence the nominee and drafting Condoleezza Rice as his running mate.

Amid the chaos, Trump convened a meeting of his top advisers in his Manhattan penthouse. He went around the room and asked each person for his damage assessment. Priebus bluntly told Trump he could either drop out immediately or lose in a historic landslide. According to someone who was present, Priebus added that Pence and Rice were “ready to step in.” (An aide to the vice president denied that Pence sent Trump a letter and that he ever talked with the RNC about becoming the nominee. Priebus did not respond to requests for comment.)

The furtive plotting, several sources told me, was not just an act of political opportunism for Pence. He was genuinely shocked by the Access Hollywood tape. In the short time they’d known each other, Trump had made an effort to convince Pence that—beneath all the made-for-TV bluster and bravado—he was a good-hearted man with faith in God. On the night of the vice-presidential debate, for example, Trump had left a voicemail letting Pence know that he’d just said a prayer for him. The couple was appalled by the video, however. Karen in particular was “disgusted,” says a former campaign aide. “She finds him reprehensible—just totally vile.”
posted by chris24 at 5:49 AM on December 5, 2017 [54 favorites]


I mean he's got to have Trump's taxes if he's doing this, right?

Either you are correct, or you are about to be correct -- even if he didn't have the taxes yet, those bank records are sure to be rife with information that will raise the question "I wonder how (or if) he reported that on the taxes".
posted by Dashy at 5:50 AM on December 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


And I'm sure this won't bother Donny at all.

Three Obama tweets, no Trump posts make list of 2017’s most retweeted
posted by chris24 at 6:06 AM on December 5, 2017 [40 favorites]


In the short time they’d known each other, Trump had made an effort to convince Pence that—beneath all the made-for-TV bluster and bravado—he was a good-hearted man with faith in God

Mike Pence, history’s most gullible rube. Someone get me in touch with this guy I’ve got a friend with millions in a Nigerian bank account and there’s 10% in it for Pence if he can help get it out of the country. I swear to god how is it possible that such a pure and unadulterated dunce is one 2-big-Mac heartbeats away from the presidency >
posted by dis_integration at 6:15 AM on December 5, 2017 [29 favorites]


White House refuses to answer reporters’ questions on the record (The Hill)
A White House spokesman on Monday night refused to answer reporters' questions on the record.

Deputy press secretary Hogan Gidley told reporters traveling with the president on Air Force One on Monday night that there was "obviously a lot of news to cover."

During the flight, Gidley gave a few "pre-cleared comments" on news of the day but then refused to answer any more questions on the record.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:15 AM on December 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


@MichaelSLinden
Lots of reasons why the GOP's tax scam is a political loser for them. Here's one I bet they haven't thought of: Nearly everyone will feel they got a tax hike by the 2nd year of the bill (that’s 2020, btw) even if they got a small cut in the 1st year. Short thread explains. 1/
- You may know that the tax cuts for most families in the Tax Scam bill, such as they are, get smaller and smaller over time (until they actually turn into tax hikes in 2026). Those estimates are relative to current law, not relative to the previous year. 2/
- In other words, an estimate of a $100 tax cut for you in 2020 means you will pay $100 less than you would have paid had the tax laws not changed. It does NOT mean you will pay $100 less than you will have paid in 2019. 3/
- So, if the tax cuts – relative to current law – get smaller every year, that means most people will experience tax INCREASES relative to what they paid the year before! 4/
- For example, imagine you are estimated to get a $200 tax cut in 2019, and a $100 tax cut in 2020. Both are relative to CURRENT LAW. That first year you might enjoy your $200. BUT, in year 2, it sure doesn’t feel like a tax cut. It feels like a $100 hike compared to last year. 5/
- That’s exactly what happens with the GOP tax scam. The average tax cut, according to JCT, for a family making $40k-$50k is $443 in 2019 (many will get less, some even pay higher taxes, even in Year 1). But by 2021, that average is down to $272. 6/
- In 2021, that average family making $40k-$50k won’t say to themselves, “We’re paying $272 less than we would have under the old law.” They’ll say, “Hmm, we’re paying more than we did last year.” 7/
- Making matters worse for the GOP is it’s the opposite for the very very rich. According to @TaxPolicyCenter, the average tax cut for the richest 0.1% goes up from $62,000 in 2019 to over $150,000 by 2025. 8/
- So while most families are feeling their taxes going up, the super-rich will be getting ever larger tax cuts. That seems like politically toxic combination. Good job, GOP. /end
posted by chris24 at 6:32 AM on December 5, 2017 [62 favorites]


This might help explain why Trump has seemed even more angry than usual lately. It's a clear sign that Trump is personally under investigation, despite his insistence to the contrary, and that the investigation into Trump goes well beyond obstruction for firing Comey.

The LOLZ part of this is that Trump, even if innocent and unconnect to the collusion (unlikely!), had to come under the umbrella of the investigation simply because of his pointless and idiotic nepotism. The unqualified Crown Prince in Charge of All Things - Kushner, at the center of the investigation is his son-in-law and Trump runs both a nepotistic business empire and white house tangling everything up like a headphone cord.

And what did Trump get in return for this all-contaminating risk? Not very much that I can see.
posted by srboisvert at 6:33 AM on December 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Bloomberg, Steven Arons, Mueller Subpoenas Trump Deutsche Bank Records

The German business newspaper Handelsblatt broke this story today: Mueller's Trump-Russia Investigation Engulfs Deutsche
Deutsche Bank has received a subpoena from the US special counsel investigating possible collusion between President Donald Trump’s campaign and Russia. It's actually welcome news for the bank.

Deutsche Bank has been served. US investigators are demanding that it provide information on dealings linked to the Trumps, sources familiar with the matter told Handelsblatt. The subpoena is part of a probe by special counsel Robert Mueller and his team to determine whether the president’s campaign was involved in Russian efforts to influence the US election.

Donald Trump and his family have long-standing ties to Germany’s largest bank. The former real-estate baron has done billions of dollars’ worth of business with Deutsche Bank over the past two decades, and First Lady Melania, daughter Ivanka and son-in-law Jared Kushner are also clients.

According to media reports, Mr. Trump owed Deutsche Bank as much as $340 million (€286.5 million) at one point, though considerable restructuring appears to have brought down that amount. The president’s financial disclosure of June 16 reported $130 million in debt, a figure the bank has not publicly confirmed.
Deutsche Bank has had the shadow of Moscow money-laundering hanging over it for a long time now, though so far they've been "too big to fail". Just this year, they had to settle with the DoJ for over $10 billion Russia-related money-laundering charges in January and then was fined $41 million for money-laundering compliance lapses in May. Unfortunately, CNN reported in November that the DoJ's current investigation into DB's Russian money-laundering has "gone quiet"—and this was a case of Bharara's, before Trump fired him.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:44 AM on December 5, 2017 [29 favorites]


But in fact, according to several Republicans familiar with the situation, he wasn’t just thinking about dropping out—he was contemplating a coup. Within hours of The Post’s bombshell, Pence made it clear to the Republican National Committee that he was ready to take Trump’s place as the party’s nominee.

I sure hope folks are tweeting that to Trump and his loyalists. They already think everyone's out to get them and you know how he feels about loyalty of his subordinates.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:52 AM on December 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


he was contemplating a coup...
---
I sure hope folks are tweeting that to Trump and his loyalists.

Yeah, I don't think he'll take it well.

Politico: Trump’s Threat to Take Down the GOP Still Stands
“First of all,” David Bossie recalls Donald Trump telling his inner circle, “I’m going to win. And second, if the Republican Party is going to run away from me, then I will take you all down with me. But I’m not going to lose.”

That was during the weekend last October when the “Access Hollywood” tape broke and Trump lashed back at Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus for telling him he should either drop out or prepare to go down in a landslide. [...]

His threat to take down the GOP if it resists, Bossie and Lewandowski told me in an interview for POLITICO’s Off Message podcast, still stands.
posted by chris24 at 6:57 AM on December 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


19 Times President Trump May Have Obstructed Justice
While there’s still much we don’t know about Mueller’s probe, there’s also plenty in the public record that experts say could add up to an obstruction charge for President Trump. These range from the firing of FBI director James Comey to Twitter attacks that are now mostly forgotten. Here’s a recap of some of the incidents that could help Mueller make his case.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:02 AM on December 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


Mod note: A few deleted; the metaphorical oxycontin thing is a huge misleading derail, please drop it.
posted by taz (staff) at 7:03 AM on December 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Atlantic: God’s Plan for Mike Pence - Will the vice president—and the religious right—be rewarded for their embrace of Donald Trump?

Wow! It's not as if I ever liked or even respected Mike Pence, but in that article he comes off as the most despicable, scheming, self-serving, hypocritical and just plain evil person ever. Trump looks like a charming old idiot criminal next to him.
posted by mumimor at 7:10 AM on December 5, 2017 [29 favorites]


The couple was appalled by the video, however. Karen in particular was “disgusted,” says a former campaign aide. “She finds him reprehensible—just totally vile.”

the story is delightful but this is a lie, right -- a lie. both halves of it, both Pences were liars. a lie like the old lie of John Kelly's decency and competence. Mike still went on to accept the vice presidency and Karen still remained married to a man who would do that.

everybody remembers the terrific Scaramucci ex who filed for aggravated divorce because who can remain married to a man who would work for donald trump? we should remember that it is possible to say this is unacceptable and actually mean it. and it's the easiest thing to tell when people actually mean it because they follow through and their actions are consistent with their outrage.

edit: it's possible Karen isn't as great a hypocrite as her husband because I expect she's been dwelling in the second lady's beehive since June and hasn't heard a lot of the worst news of the presidency. all around outside the residence, the great turmoil of DC churns and spins but all Karen Pence hears is the sweet humming of the bees.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:11 AM on December 5, 2017 [57 favorites]


everybody remembers the terrific Scaramucci ex who filed for aggravated divorce because who can remain married to a man who would work for donald trump? we should remember that it is possible to say this is unacceptable and actually mean it. and it's the easiest thing to tell when people actually mean it because they follow through and their actions are consistent with their outrage.

They're getting back together.
posted by scalefree at 7:16 AM on December 5, 2017 [15 favorites]


thanks for ruining my great illustrative point with the miserable realism of reality, scalefree

at least he doesn't work for trump anymore?
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:18 AM on December 5, 2017 [27 favorites]


Fuck wsj OP Ed is saying Mueller should step down can't link it on my phone
posted by angrycat at 7:34 AM on December 5, 2017


I believe this is the Op Ed angrycat is talking about.
posted by Andrhia at 7:37 AM on December 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


Very clever. The GOP is solving the Saturday Night Massacre problem by making Mueller's removal appear to be a groundswell. If this succeeds, kiss our democracy buh-bye.
posted by Mental Wimp at 7:38 AM on December 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


WSJ: Here's who will negotiate the final tax bill from the House side:
For the Republicans, Rep. Kevin Brady (R., Texas), the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, will chair the conference. He'll be joined by four Ways and Means members: Peter Roskam (R., Ill.), Devin Nunes (R., Calif.), Diane Black (R., Tenn.) and Kristi Noem (R., S.D.)....

The House conferees also include members of the Natural Resources and Energy and Commerce committees. They weren't involved in the original bill, but the health-care and oil-drilling pieces of the Senate bill are in play now. They are Rob Bishop (R., Utah)., Don Young (R., Alaska), Greg Walden (R., Ore.) and John Shimkus (R., Ill.).

The Democratic conferees are Reps. Richard Neal (D., Mass)., Rep. Sander Levin (D., Mich.), Lloyd Doggett (D., Texas), Raul Grijalva (D., Ariz.) and Kathy Castor (D., Fla.).

The Senate is expected to name its conferees later in the week.
That link also has more detail about a few of the members' interests, e.g., that Roskam is concerned about SALT.

More from tax twitter:

@M_SullivanTax: "Looks to me as though 5 might be flippable," comment** on Brad DeLong's site on how many more of 14 Calif. Republicans will vote against tax bill. Three already have.* https://t.co/zwJFLhUWl8

* Rohrabacher, R-Costa Mesa, Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Vista, and Rep. Tom McClintock, R-Elk Grove

** Relevant comment with my geographical additions to make it easy to know if you know anyone in these districts:
Mark Field said...
Looks to me as though 5 might be flippable (Denham [Modesto] , Valadao [Bakersfield], Knight [Simi Valley], Royce [Fullerton] and Walters [Irvine]). Nunes and Calvert would be outside shots. We need callers within those districts most of all, but I think anyone in CA can call those offices and, in an angry voice, promise to contribute lots of money to their opponents and do everything possible to defeat them if they vote to take away our deductions and raise our taxes.
Also from @M_SullivanTax: JCT estimate of reinstating corporate AMT in floor amendment may be way too low. "Keeping Corporate AMT May Swallow up Many Reform Benefits." Unfortunately, I can't get through the paywall on taxnotes.com to read more. But it seems like this corporate AMT fight, along with SALT, are the most likely things to undermine or splinter support for the tax bill among Republicans, so it seems like an issue to watch.
posted by salvia at 7:39 AM on December 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


The Detroit News: Rep. Conyers: ‘I’m retiring today’
He endorsed his son, John Conyers III, to succeed him in Congress.
This is so infuriating and I'm feeling really stabby right now.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:42 AM on December 5, 2017 [15 favorites]


Elections Are the Key, Even If You Think Impeachment Will Save Us
In a New Republic piece today, Jeet Heer writes about what he calls "The Democrats’ Dangerous Obsession with Impeachment." I don't think it's dangerous to hope for impeachment, but it's dangerous to believe that impeachment will come easily or quickly. [...]

A simple majority is needed to impeach in the House, but it takes a two-thirds majority to convict in the Senate. Republicans control both houses now -- if Democrats vote as a bloc (not a certainty), you'd need 22 Republican votes in the House right now to impeach and 19 Republican votes in the Senate to convict. Heer is right to say that GOP defections seem less likely than they might have early in Trump's term: [...]

And this is before Trump has managed to get any major legislation passed. I think a consensus is forming on the right, even among those who've been skeptical of Trump, that he's developing into a pretty great right-wing president. Here's something Rich Lowry published this week at the formerly anti-Trump National Review: [...]

Soon you're going to start reading op-eds from more and more conservatives who've been on the fence about Trump describing him as a highly successful president and the best president since Reagan. That'll be conventional wisdom on the right. Congressional Republicans aren't going to jump off the bandwagon under those circumstances. [...]

Here's something that seems obvious to me: The party's refusal to abandon Moore proves that the release of the pee tape, if it exists, would have absolutely no long-term effect on Republican support for Trump. If you won't abandon a man who's credibly accused of groping young teenagers, then why would you abandon a man who watched prostitutes urinate for sexual gratification? I can just hear the Bible Belters now: If I wanted to elect a perfect person, I'd write in Jesus Christ. Of course the pee tape won't change anything.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:44 AM on December 5, 2017 [38 favorites]


Since that Wall Street Journal op-ed is behind a paywall, the Huffington Post has a breakdown. In case anyone from outside the US isn't familiar with the Journal, it leans right-wing/conservative and also called for Mueller's removal in October. Of note:
In addition to the seething editorials, the newspaper has also published a series of opinion pieces from contributors attacking the Mueller probe, including one that accused the investigation of “imperil[ing] the rule of law.”

The Journal board’s conservative lean has been long-documented, but the election of Trump has reportedly created an internal newsroom struggle about how to cover the presidency, particularly as Mueller’s investigation has ramped up. Reports have surfaced that some staff are frustrated with Gerard Baker, the editor-in-chief, who is said to have pushed more commentary that’s defensive of the president.

Rupert Murdoch, who is known as a friend of Trump’s, owns the paper.

posted by zarq at 7:45 AM on December 5, 2017 [16 favorites]


Read as "WSJ and Republicans Confirm That Mueller's Uncovering Meaningful Stuff"
posted by delfin at 7:50 AM on December 5, 2017 [66 favorites]


Heer is right. Its pretty stark now that Trump has been completely, fully embraced by the mainstream Republican establishment. He's not an outsider. The party loves him.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 7:53 AM on December 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


How many weekday mornings have gone by without a tweet from Donald Trump? Given the news of the past couple of days, anyone else find this ominous?
posted by scarylarry at 8:01 AM on December 5, 2017


Or maybe they just took away John Dowd’s phone.
posted by scarylarry at 8:02 AM on December 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


How many weekday mornings have gone by without a tweet from Donald Trump? Given the news of the past couple of days, anyone else find this ominous?

Well, his pattern is not to tweet on the day of really bad news, but he can only hold off between 24-48 hours before he has to spew all the venom. Granted, he could also just be distracted or whatever. His aides try hard to distract him. Could be totally nothing. But that's his pattern.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:15 AM on December 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


Impeachment fetishists seem to think that the overriding problem of American politics is that Trump is president.

The entire essay has Heer setting up and arguing against strawmen of his own creation. There's little to no evidence that people in favor of impeachment think that removing Trump would be a magic salve to save America from Republicans. Who has said that? Everyone who brings up the subject seems to be perfectly well aware that he'd be replaced by Pence, an evangelical Dominionist Republican. Everyone seems to realize that Congress is run by the GOP. Everyone knows we have a long-term problem. But we also have a short-term one that we probably need to take action to solve.

We have a President who is an unstable liar. Who is so insecure and self-obsessed that we quite have no idea if he's going to nuke North Korea and start a war because Kim Jong Un called him a name. We have a President who is getting into arguments with American citizens because he has no self-control and is frankly, a complete asshole.

If he has committed treason, there is no good reason not to fire his ass.
posted by zarq at 8:19 AM on December 5, 2017 [61 favorites]


Very clever. The GOP is solving the Saturday Night Massacre problem by making Mueller's removal appear to be a groundswell. If this succeeds, kiss our democracy buh-bye.

Apparently we're going to get rid of the rule of law because some guy named Strzok texted "trump is a real shitface" to his girlfriend.
posted by dis_integration at 8:32 AM on December 5, 2017 [22 favorites]


Rupert Murdoch, who is known as a friend of Trump’s, owns the paper.

Murdoch, the Dirty Digger, and Trump have known each other for more than 40 years: Donald Trump and Rupert Murdoch: inside the billionaire bromance (Grauniad, long read)
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:33 AM on December 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


Fuck wsj OP Ed is saying Mueller should step down can't link it on my phone

This is part of a classic Murdoch operation, and only a later stage at that.

WJS Editorial: Mueller’s Credibility Problem—The special counsel is stonewalling Congress and protecting the FBI. TL/DR: They're supporting House Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes feud with Rod Rosenstein and DoJ over former Mueller team member Peter Strzok's anti-Trump tweets for which he was reassigned.

This follows last night's Fox News hysteria, with Tucker Carlson first up with a spin on the Flynndictment that it exceeds Mueller's brief because it covered the transition and not the election; then Hannity upping the ante, inveighing against Deep State illegal Surveillance and then claiming Strzok was the one to have interviewed Flynn, before moving on to a feeding-frenzy roundtable with Jeanine Pirro, who wants a special counsel appointed to investigate Mueller, and Dan Bongino, who just wants him fired; and finally, Laura Ingraham eases down the audience with a comparatively sober segment calling the appearance of partisanship in Mueller probe "Unacceptable, Disgusting and Unfair".*

And that morning, the Murdoch-owned New York Post published an Op-Ed by Rich Lowry: Flynn’s Russia contacts were no crime and no scandal.

This is standard operating procedure for a Murdoch operation coordinated among News Corp outlets, with his tabloids and TV "commentators" ginning up controversy, his mainstream outlets slipstreaming behind the waves they make.

* (hat-tip to Tom Nichols‏ @RadioFreeTom, who, after live-tweeting Fox News last night, wrote, "I have rarely seen a left-wing propagandist attack the American system of government, and firehose American citizens with sheer paranoia, as hard as Sean Hannity is doing right now. The horseshoe theory is a fact.")
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:34 AM on December 5, 2017 [60 favorites]


if Democrats vote as a bloc (not a certainty), you'd need 22 Republican votes in the House right now to impeach and 19 Republican votes in the Senate to convict

I've seen a few articles in the last week or so making this argument, but who's really expecting the current Congress to impeach? Make it a campaign issue, win the elections next year, then impeach. It would be the mandated will of the people.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:35 AM on December 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


The horseshoe theory is a fact.

Sean Hannity defending Trump against his critics by promoting paranoid conspiracy theories is not proof of the horseshoe theory.
posted by zarq at 8:42 AM on December 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


Detailed timeline from TPM: Trump Officials Repeatedly Pushed Flynn’s Bogus Story Of Russia Contacts
As court filings and emails emerge from the Mueller probe and dogged reporting, Trump officials who denied that Michael Flynn would stoop to renegotiating the outgoing administration’s sanctions on Russia turn out to have been privately informed of Flynn’s pre-inauguration diplomacy in real time.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:46 AM on December 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


Mod note: A few comments deleted; let's not go down the path of "surely this"/"the GOP is over"/"no it's not" and so on; the magic-8-ball is cloudy at this time, ask again later.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:07 AM on December 5, 2017 [22 favorites]


The German business newspaper Handelsblatt broke this story today: Mueller's Trump-Russia Investigation Engulfs Deutsche

Reuters has some background sources on this story: Deutsche Bank gets subpoena from Mueller on Trump accounts: source
A U.S. official with knowledge of Mueller’s probe said one reason for the subpoenas was to find out whether Deutsche Bank may have sold some of Trump’s mortgage or other loans to Russian state development bank VEB or other Russian banks that now are under U.S. and European Union sanctions.

Holding such debt, particularly if some of it was or is coming due, could potentially give Russian banks some leverage over Trump, especially if they are state-owned, said a second U.S. official familiar with Russian intelligence methods.

“One obvious question is why Trump and those around him expressed interest in improving relations with Russia as a top foreign policy priority, and whether or not any personal considerations played any part in that,” the second official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity.
(My working hypothesis is that this leak originally came from the German end, either DB or its supporters in Frankfurt/Berlin, but now the Feds or Capitol Hill are willing to provide context.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:12 AM on December 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


I think there's a nontrivial possibility of a run on Deutsche, and/or failure by desertion of those whose funds are sunlight-phobic, from this news, either soon or as things dribble out.

That would raise interesting questions of whether the US and its taxpayers should prop up a bank whose failure resulted from the (presumably) illicit personal dealings of its own president, and who would then benefit from any propping-up. Emoluments, writ large.
posted by Dashy at 9:23 AM on December 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Who Lied to Who When and Why It Barely Matters (Josh Marshall, TPM)
We now know that during the multiple calls Flynn had with Kislyak in the last days of December he not only notified his colleagues but actively solicited and received their input in real time. As the Flynn plea agreement lays out, Flynn called KT McFarland at Mar-a-Lago to discuss the sanctions calls with her. She in turn solicited the opinions of other senior transition officials with her to share with Flynn. Contemporaneous records suggest these officials, who go unnamed in the plea document, included Stephen Miller, Kellyanne Conway, Steve Bannon and Reince Priebus. Concluding the series of calls with Kislyak on December 31st, Flynn again called into Mar-a-Lago and spoke not only to McFarland but directly to “senior members of the Presidential Transition Team” about the sanctions calls.

What this tells us is that the nature of Flynn’s calls, specifically that they dealt with sanctions, were known widely among Trump’s top advisors: McFarland, Conway, Bannon, Miller, Priebus and certainly others. Given this fact it is hard to believe that Trump and Pence didn’t know the details as well. Even if Trump and Pence didn’t know (as unlikely as that may be), each of those people knew as soon as Pence gave his public assurances that these assurances were false.

Again, note: This is not speculation. This is not based on journalistic accounts. It’s based on the Flynn plea agreement and contemporaneous pool reports which detailed which top advisors the transition team said were with the President on the days in question handling the foreign policy transition. [...]

We shouldn’t. Trump’s top advisors knew the true nature of the calls and repeatedly lied about it to reporters. This is the only plausible read of the the current evidence. They allowed Pence’s false statements to stand for weeks, which amounts to a furtherance of those lies.

We’re simply not dealing with something the key people found out in late January. This was a cover-up, a string of publicly verified deceptions that went back to the beginning of the month.
The fact that so many of the top officials in the transition team knew about the nature of Flynn's calls to Kislyak paints a pretty damning picture of DJT and Mike Pence. Either they were so out-of-the-loop with their teams that they had no idea what anyone was doing OR they did know and didn't care. Either way, neither Trump nor Pence is fit to hold any public office.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:27 AM on December 5, 2017 [54 favorites]


Also from @M_SullivanTax: JCT estimate of reinstating corporate AMT in floor amendment may be way too low. "Keeping Corporate AMT May Swallow up Many Reform Benefits." Unfortunately, I can't get through the paywall on taxnotes.com to read more.

Some quotes from the article:
“Everyone was taken by surprise by the retention of the corporate alternative minimum tax,” Eric Solomon of EY said. “Taxpayers have been scrambling to understand the implications for them,” he said, adding that “questions that have never been asked before are being asked.”

“The whole concept of an AMT is predicated on there being a rate differential . . . and when you have a 20 percent rate for both regular tax and AMT purposes, the AMT just doesn’t work like it’s supposed to,” Michael Mollerus of Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP said.

“When you are repealing [the corporate AMT] initially as part of current law, you don’t lose that much money because you have a high 35 percent tax rate. If you were to reinstate it after lowering the corporate rate to 20 percent and creating several new deductions, it raises a lot more when you put it back in at the end,” Drew Lyon of PwC said. Lyon expressed some skepticism about the “rather quick” mirror image score the JCT gave the provision’s retention, given the unavailability of many credits under the AMT, including the research credit.

Lyon said the explicit exclusion of the new 100 percent [dividends received deduction] would be “a technical item” that needed correction. Mollerus added that since the AMT would undo 75 percent of the benefit of moving to a territorial system, he was “cautiously optimistic” that interaction between the two provisions would be rectified.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:29 AM on December 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


We need a few op-eds about "What Will President Pence Do When He Takes Office?" to push the president into tweetstorm panic and a lot of claims of "he was involved; he knew it all; he arranged everything and I just made speeches. It was all his plan."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:33 AM on December 5, 2017 [84 favorites]


If you won't abandon a man who's credibly accused of groping young teenagers, then why would you abandon a man who watched prostitutes urinate for sexual gratification?

This argument had been bugging me for a while, because it's like saying "If you like liver, how could you not like chocolate?" There are, demonstrably, ample numbers of people who are okay with Donald Trump's sexual assault but not okay with, say, homosexuality, and it's not because they have no morality. It's because they have a particular morality, a moral lens.

Consent is not part of that moral lens, when it comes to sex. It's just not relevant. They classify sexual acts based on whether God says it's okay, and whether it supports or degrades social heirarchies.

Or maybe not. Whether or not I've explained it properly, this phenomenon exists. People are okay with assaults against women but not okay with sexual"perversion".
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:34 AM on December 5, 2017 [31 favorites]


...and an SNL skit with him measuring drapes.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:34 AM on December 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


Loony leftist uprising report : No wonder we hate capitalism NYT Opinion Page
posted by The Whelk at 9:39 AM on December 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


Either way, neither Trump nor Pence is fit to hold any public office.

Which is, quite literally, the reason they're in the Oval Office now.

They are the very apotheosis of the Republican ideal, heads of government who are incapable of governance appointing people who are equally incapable of governance. Modern "conservatives" don't want a federal government at all; they've said so, in a very loud voice pitched to break windows, for decades. Government is always the problem. Drown government in a bathtub. The worst phrase in the English language is "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." Vote in the craziest son of a bitch you can, maybe an actor or a rank outsider because he's not One of Them, he's not a Politician, he Tells It Like It Is, he'll Tear The Whole Damn Thing Down. When they tell you who and what they are and repeat it over and over, believe them.

Now, there are some career conservatives who are a bit alarmed by all of this because they understand that some sausage simply must get made, some government is inevitable and needed, and letting the ding-dongs run the show is a recipe for disaster. These broken clocks are irrelevant to the ding-dong base because they didn't pay any attention to the likes of Bill Kristol or Jennifer Rubin when they WERE on their side.
posted by delfin at 9:42 AM on December 5, 2017 [46 favorites]


People are okay with assaults against women

and children! but you're right, disgust is different from outrage and contempt is a third thing that factors in sometimes. like Anthony Weiner was only mildly disgusting and mildly outrageous until he started doing what he did without permission or consent. but he made himself pathetic and that made the consequences permanent. I think very few people were either disgusted or really outraged at him for sexually harassing teens and women, and only a few more really minded him mistreating his wife, but very many people found it impossible to respect him or take him seriously as an authority figure. and people do want their male public servants to role-play dominant authority figures. I wish it were only Republicans, but it's not. the main difference is Republicans want a mean dad but Democrats want a cool dad.

how anybody could ever have seen Trump as an authority or a father figure or a strong anything is completely beyond me, as is the desire to see any politically powerful man that way, so I can't really predict what would make people stop. he is already ludicrous and disgusting on a daily basis. but I suppose it is possible that for people who don't already see this, they might find their feelings changed by a sufficiently degrading sex tape. but it would have to be something they considered degrading and embarrassing to him. him degrading women or even female children would be a sign of power, and they would like it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:55 AM on December 5, 2017 [15 favorites]


So Reince Priebus was apparently in the calls where Flynn and/or his sycophants were disclosing the details of the contacting Kislyak. I find it incredibly interesting just how quiet he's been and how little he's been mentioned in the news media since being unceremoniously dumped out of the WH. I would not be at all surprised to learn that he's been spilling his guts out to Robert Mueller's team, because there's no way he didn't witness a bunch of potentially criminal behavior. I hope he pays dearly for his complicity in this fetid enterprise.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:56 AM on December 5, 2017 [58 favorites]


Yes, and one more thing, which is crucial: enough people must be willing to show up, in person, and refuse to back down.

"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part! And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop! And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it—that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!" –Mario Savio
posted by entropicamericana at 9:58 AM on December 5, 2017 [30 favorites]


I would not be at all surprised to learn that he's been spilling his guts out to Robert Mueller's team, because there's no way he didn't witness a bunch of potentially criminal behavior.

Reince was never a True Believer, he was always an establishment Republican opportunist. He's also an attorney, so has at least a rough idea of what he'd be up against in Mueller. The fact that Trump treated him so poorly can't have helped.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:01 AM on December 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


All these supposed former never-Trumpers having a change of heart are proof that “the end justifies the means” might be the only consistent principle Republicans have, and that the whole thing was just face-saving bullshit they cooked up when it looked like he was going to lose and they didn’t want the Trump stink on them.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:04 AM on December 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


@mrbenwexler
THE RIGHT: Yeah he's a serial child molester but he'll confirm the guy I want on the Supreme Court

THE LEFT: Yeah she's good on global warming and tax policy and race relations and expanding healthcare to poor families but I can't vote for someone who gave paid speeches to Goldman
posted by chris24 at 10:04 AM on December 5, 2017 [199 favorites]


My point was more that disgust, outrage and contempt are not universal, and the way we classify things as "outrageous" and "disgusting" is also not universally agreed on.

There's a set of people for whom donald trump is not disgusting because their ideological and moral framework do not see his actions as disgusting. That doesn't mean that nothing will disgust them. In fact, some things that we find normal (like homosexuality) they will see as disgusting.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 10:09 AM on December 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


like Anthony Weiner was only mildly disgusting and mildly outrageous until he started doing what he did without permission or consent. but he made himself pathetic and that made the consequences permanent. I think very few people were either disgusted or really outraged at him for sexually harassing teens and women, and only a few more really minded him mistreating his wife, but very many people found it impossible to respect him or take him seriously as an authority figure. and people do want their male public servants to role-play dominant authority figures. I wish it were only Republicans, but it's not. the main difference is Republicans want a mean dad but Democrats want a cool dad.

Many of my friends lived in his district, and I now live there as well. It is a pretty solidly Democratic district. (Grace Meng is now our rep.)

Weiner sent explicit pictures of himself to a 17 year old (and we would later find out, a 15 year old.) The news that he mistreated his wife was taken by many of us as no surprise.

Anthony Weiner was not our dad. He was not an authority figure we craved. We don't elect our officials through BDSM role play here. He ran on and was elected as someone who would speak his mind and fight for us in Congress. And while he was in office, he did so. But he was someone elected into office who abused his power and sent inappropriate photos to children, then lied about it when confronted.

He doomed himself with the people who originally voted for him for that. Not for being humiliated. Not for being pathetic. They thought they were electing an adult with a strong sense of right and wrong. He wasn't.
posted by zarq at 10:21 AM on December 5, 2017 [28 favorites]


For a certain sizeable sector of American disgust voters, the most disgusting thing that happened in all of human history is that We Had A Black President. For these people, if Trump wanted to pay women to pee on the bed where the Obamas slept to reenact its defilement, sure, okay--the bed was ruined, anyway. It's in the same spirit that he's busily hacking miles off monuments and destroying health care and rolling back every accomplishment Obama made that he can get his hands on. If it exists at all, that pee tape is nothing to do with sexual perversion. It's just more of Trump's bottom-denominator kindergarten vengeance.
posted by Don Pepino at 10:24 AM on December 5, 2017 [45 favorites]


apropos of nothing, @scaramucci recently followed me on twitter. what fresh hell have i stepped into??
posted by waitangi at 10:36 AM on December 5, 2017 [31 favorites]


New Quinnipiac poll:
American voters disapprove of the tax plan 53 - 29 percent, the independent Quinnipiac University Poll finds. Republicans approve of the plan 67 - 10 percent, the only party, gender, education, age or racial group listed to approve. White men are divided as 40 percent approve and 42 percent disapprove. [...]

In the wake of the Republican tax plan, American voters say 47 - 39 percent that the Democratic Party can do a better job handling taxes. Voters have been divided on this question in the past. [...]

-Voters say 55 - 32 percent that the Democratic Party can do a better job on health care.
-56 - 34 percent that Democrats can do a better job "fighting for the working class;"
-51 - 37 percent that Democrats can do a better job "representing your values."

American voters say 50 - 36 percent, including 44 - 36 percent among independent voters that they would like the Democrats to win control of the U.S. House of Representatives in 2018. Voters also say 51 - 37 percent, including 45 - 38 percent among independent voters, that they would like Democrats to win control of the U.S. Senate in 2018.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:37 AM on December 5, 2017 [53 favorites]


apropos of nothing, @scaramucci recently followed me on twitter. what fresh hell have i stepped into??

Eh, I wouldn't worry about it, he'll probably be gone in like 10 days.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:24 AM on December 5, 2017 [88 favorites]


Steve Herman‏
@W7VOA
Top four tweeted elected US officials not a surprise (@realDonaldTrump, @VP, @SpeakerRyan and @BarackObama), but in 5th place is a #California congressman: @RepTedLieu.

\0/
posted by Room 641-A at 12:01 PM on December 5, 2017 [45 favorites]


@VP surprises me. Has he ever made a comment of interest? Maybe people thought it was the TV show.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:08 PM on December 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Trump hasn't made an announcement about Jerusalem yet, which is arguably making things even worse. Their actions right now seem astonishingly consistent with trying to provoke violence. The US Embassy in Israel with a warning:
With widespread calls for demonstrations beginning December 6 in Jerusalem and the West Bank, U.S. government employees and their family members are not permitted until further notice to conduct personal travel in Jerusalem’s Old City and in the West Bank, to include Bethlehem and Jericho. Official travel by U.S. government employees in Jerusalem’s Old City and in the West Bank is permitted only to conduct essential travel and with additional security measures. United States citizens should avoid areas where crowds have gathered and where there is increased police and/or military presence. We recommend that U.S. citizens take into consideration these restrictions and the additional guidance contained in the Department of State’s travel warning for Israel, the West Bank and Gaza when making decisions regarding their travel.
The Summer Zervos hearing is quite the happening, via @marygeorgant:
Trump’s attorneys have sought to have the suit dismissed or delayed until after his presidency. They said Zervos’ lawsuit is “politically motivated.”
Trump's lawyer Marc Kasowitz says today's motion to dismiss the defamation lawsuit "has nothing to do with putting anyone above the law."
Trump's lawyer argues that state court does not have jurisdiction over the president of the US. Zervos' lawyer says "What better court to hear a defamation claim against a born and bred New Yorker who made defamatory statements in Midtown"
Zervos' lawyers says a delay of potentially 7 years could result in a loss of evidence and deterioration of parties' memory. Lawyers want to make sure docs are preserved. "We have the right to proceed."
Zervos' lawyer says she understands the presidency is a 24/7 job but like any human he doesn't do his job 24/7. "We can take a deposition at Mar a Lago" while he’s there to play golf, attorney Mariann Meier Wang says.
This bit of the Pence article in the Atlantic, linked upthread, stands out:
Murphy told me another story about Pence that has stayed with him. During their sophomore year, the Phi Gamma Delta house found itself perpetually on probation. The movie Animal House had recently come out, and the fraternity brothers were constantly re-creating their favorite scenes, with toga parties, outlandish pranks, and other miscellaneous mischief. Most vexing to the school’s administration was their violation of Hanover’s strict alcohol prohibition. The Phi Gams devised elaborate schemes to smuggle booze into the house, complete with a network of campus lookouts. Pence was not a particularly hard partyer, but he gamely presided over these efforts, and when things went sideways he was often called upon to smooth things over with the adults.

One night, during a rowdy party, Pence and his fraternity brothers got word that an associate dean was on his way to the house. They scrambled to hide the kegs and plastic cups, and then Pence met the administrator at the door.

“We know you’ve got a keg,” the dean told Pence, according to Murphy. Typically when scenes like this played out, one of the brothers would take the fall, claiming that all the alcohol was his and thus sparing the house from formal discipline. Instead, Pence led the dean straight to the kegs and admitted that they belonged to the fraternity. The resulting punishment was severe. “They really raked us over the coals,” Murphy said. “The whole house was locked down.” Some of Pence’s fraternity brothers were furious with him—but he managed to stay on good terms with the administration. Such good terms, in fact, that after he graduated, in 1981, the school offered him a job in the admissions office.
posted by zachlipton at 12:11 PM on December 5, 2017 [51 favorites]


Politico: Russia barred from 2018 Winter Olympics due to doping.

As part of the ban...individual Russian athletes with clean histories of thorough drug testing could still compete in the 2018 Winter Olympics, scheduled to begin next February in Pyeongchang, South Korea. They will not be allowed to wear Russian uniforms, however, and Russian government officials are barred from attending the 2018 Games.

This is not a small thing. It's a bigger deal for Russia than here--not just because it's hitting them specifically, but also because the Olympics are a bigger deal there (from what I understand, anyway). Especially for Putin. World-stage sports is one of his things.

Curious to see if Trump says anything on this at all. If it was anyone else being hit, I imagine he'd gloat. It's too good a chance to be a dick just for the hell of it. But this is Putin.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:14 PM on December 5, 2017 [28 favorites]


Ah, and here it is. Chris Geidner and Dominic Holden have their write-up on the Masterpiece Cakeshop case at the Supreme Court today: The Supreme Court Wants To Know: What Happens If This Baker Can Refuse To Sell A Cake To A Gay Couple?:
Justice Sonia Sotomayor questioned why — even if there is a line to be drawn — the cake baker should be on the exempted side of the line. "The primary purpose of any food is to be eaten," she said. "There are sandwich artists," she said, but a sandwich-maker does't claim to create a First Amendment-protected lunch.
And an Israel update, again, from Bloomberg: Trump Plans 6-Month Waiver on Embassy Move to Jerusalem:
President Donald Trump is planning to sign a six-month waiver on moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem, according to a person familiar with the plan.

His plan is to move the embassy to Jerusalem, but the construction timeline is uncertain.
If he's going to not do anything, can he fucking get on with not doing anything before people get hurt? Unless that's what he wants.
posted by zachlipton at 12:18 PM on December 5, 2017 [15 favorites]


Zervos' lawyers says a delay of potentially 7 years could result in a loss of evidence and deterioration of parties' memory.

Fortunately President Trump has "one of the greatest memories of all time."
posted by kirkaracha at 12:21 PM on December 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


T.D. Strange: "Mayor Jim Gray of Lexington, Kentucky announces run against Andy Barr (KY-6). It's a PVI R+9 district, but has elected a Democrat in the not too distant past. Gray is popular in Lexington and is probably the strongest possible candidate despite his blowout loss to Rand Paul in the 2016 Senate race, he won 51% of the district."

This is anecdotal, but Dems seem to be getting a lot of very strong candidates for House races.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:23 PM on December 5, 2017 [16 favorites]


Politico: Russia barred from 2018 Winter Olympics due to doping.

Curious to see if Trump says anything on this at all.

Would be a larf if he took to Twitter to threaten a boycott. Might be the one thing to finally turn the corporations against him.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:27 PM on December 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


> The entire essay has Heer setting up and arguing against strawmen of his own creation. There's little to no evidence that people in favor of impeachment think that removing Trump would be a magic salve to save America from Republicans. Who has said that? [...] If he has committed treason, there is no good reason not to fire his ass.

The position you're saying is a straw man is where Heer claims that people think the "overriding problem" is that Trump is President, and I can say for certain I've heard/read that opinion expressed by many people -- in real life, in mainstream media, and from online sources. Heer acknowledges the danger of Trump many times in the piece -- he just believes impeachment cannot happen with Congress as presently constituted, and I agree with that based on what we've seen so far. Heer cites examples of people focusing too much, in his view, on something that (a) can't happen now because Republicans don't give a fuck, and (b) wouldn't do anything to mitigate the harm being done by the rest of the party.

Heer's use of "impeachment fetishists" is unnecessarily derogatory, and certainly most people aware of the harm that Pence and a GOP Congress would cause, but what I believe hes getting at in his piece, particularly the second half of it, is that it's important to attack root causes as we try to attack symptoms, and to prioritize the allocation of finite resources to maximize the chance that we stop Trump and the reckless band of opportunists and zealots that will support him for as long as he's willing to sign their horrible legislation.

Which is all to say that I think quoting that single sentence from Heet's piece divorces it from the context in important ways. I'm happy to engage more on some of the specifics here if you'd like -- and if it comports with the mood of the room and the newer moderation protocols for megathreads -- but I think waving it away as a straw man is a bit unfair. Just because people know Trump isn't the only problem doesn't mean they are as aware as they ought to be of the many other problems, or of the fact that the problem they're focused on the most (Trump) can't be stopped without solving some of those problems, absent far more explosive details from Mueller's investigation than we've seen so far.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:33 PM on December 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


> @Evan_McMullin
.@SykesCharlie: We are seeing the crack-up of one of the nation’s two major political parties. The GOP was once the party of Buckley, Reagan and McCain. Today, Trump is the face of what the GOP has become. Moore is the face of what it is becoming.

The Damage Trump Has Done: He has conquered the party of Reagan and is fulfilling a dream of the hard right – the demolition of government
Except for Trump, the GOP looked in 2016 as if it might be on the verge of cracking up from the internal tensions born of its decades-long radicalization. Instead, Trump seized upon those tensions, exacerbated them and captured the hearts of the vast majority of Republicans, screaming a post-Reagan conservatism that is not conservative at all and a right-wing populism serving the interests of racketeerism. Historically, these kinds of party transformations are very difficult to reverse. They would seem all the more difficult now, with a charismatic leader whose every outrage reinforces his appeal. And if Trump succeeds in building his own version of a mafia state, America, once a beacon to all the world, Reagan's shining city, will more closely resemble Putin's Moscow.
posted by homunculus at 12:38 PM on December 5, 2017 [23 favorites]


Curious to see if Trump says anything on this at all.

Would be a larf if he took to Twitter to threaten a boycott. Might be the one thing to finally turn the corporations against him.

The prospect I dread is seeing the President of the United States defending the practice of doping. I'd put actual money on "everybody does it" and "what's the big deal?" soundbites before this is over. He's ignorant as fuck, he pathologically cheats his way through everything in life, and he can't stand to be criticized, so he won't like seeing anyone else called out for cheating. This is totally something he'd do. Plus when this is about Putin, one of the few people he won't mock or criticize at any opportunity? Ugh.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:42 PM on December 5, 2017 [21 favorites]


Frankly, the Olympics are the one institution I'm totally okay with our moronic President destroying. The scale of graft, abuse, and wasteful spending of the Olympics is only outshined by its utility in burnishing authoritarian regimes with an air of legitimacy.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:46 PM on December 5, 2017 [63 favorites]


The prospect I dread is seeing the President of the United States defending the practice of doping. I'd put actual money on "everybody does it" and "what's the big deal?" soundbites before this is over.

That clashes hard with his "we're gonna crack down on those evil heroin dealers" stance. He's anti-drug; he's always had doctors who'd prescribe him anything he needed (or wanted) for medical purposes, and he doesn't have the imagination to look for recreational uses. However, I can see him saying, "this is totally unfair! Throw out a few law-breakers; no reason to punish the whole country for that!"
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:10 PM on December 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Frankly, the Olympics are the one institution I'm totally okay with our moronic President destroying.

Olympics sports fan here: My first thought (aside from how this'll affect athletes inside & outside of Russia) was wow, when the corrupt old IOC gives the appearance, at least, of having more balls than the Republican Congress WRT Russian interference.

Would be a larf if he took to Twitter to threaten a boycott.Might be the one thing to finally turn the corporations against him.

Yeah, and NBC, which is questionable on its support of serious political journalists, while keeping the likes of Sochi-Sex-Assaulter Lauer for so long, has the b-cast rights. My head spins.

(And of course, in a further twist, *location* of said Olympics ties back to a serious geopolitical situation being inflamed by unhinged Benedict Donald.)
posted by NorthernLite at 1:11 PM on December 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


The position you're saying is a straw man is where Heer claims that people think the "overriding problem" is that Trump is President,

Nah. That's just what I highlighted.

I think he's being overwrought and making a lot of assumptions about the motives of his audience and the people he's quoting. I only linked that one sentence, but I could have linked half the article. He repeatedly says that people are not paying attention to the larger problem, without evidence. Sure we are. A couple of op-eds are not evidence. Neither is someone dropping their 280-character hot take on Twitter. Plenty of talk shows and podcasts are discussing Trump, the Republican Party and the possibility of impeachment realistically. So are many internet forums, including us, in these threads.

This idea he presents that people think that it's going to magically happen quickly is ridiculous. Who thinks that? I can't name a single person who thinks impeachment is likely to happen without delay. The few congresscritters who are presenting it are trying to send a message to the administration, not because they think 40+ Republicans are going to sign up to impeach. The lay people advocating for it know the numbers are working against it.

So why are they doing it? Symbolism. We have a President who is so image-obsessed that he trashes anyone who disagrees with him or insults him. Puncturing his ego through symbolism in any way isn't a bad strategy. It distracts him. It makes him look weak and threatened. Even if the effort were to go nowhere it would have an effect.

and I can say for certain I've heard/read that opinion expressed by many people -- in real life, in mainstream media, and from online sources. Heer acknowledges the danger of Trump many times in the piece -- he just believes impeachment cannot happen with Congress as presently constituted, and I agree with that based on what we've seen so far.

Of course you agree. That's not the point. Who amongst us believes impeachment is a likely, realistic outcome right this second? Lots of people have written op-eds and essays about impeachment being unlikely right now. Most of them manage to do it without implying their audience are ignorant idiots. I'm probably reading the same things you are.

that it's important to attack root causes as we try to attack symptoms,

This is a natural reflex, considering that a large part of this administration's strategy has been to throw all sorts of bullshit at the general public to distract them from real problems. To sow chaos in a media environment reports but does not prioritize important news from meaningless news.

However, it is in fact possible and desirable for us to spend time attacking actual problems through multiple vectors without spreading ourselves too thin. Reflexively saying, "we need to focus all of our attention on what really matters" is traditionally how Democrats lose battles. The administration would like to fill the airwaves with the President being an asshole again to distract people from the GOP's latest efforts to fuck them over. But they are also attacking democracy in quite a few ways, and restricting ourselves to just one battle means we lose the war.

So yes, going on the attack is needed. Targeting Trump directly because we have learned that he is pathetically insecure and can't handle it.

It's possible to be a part of get out the vote efforts and campaign for good candidates while also pushing Republicans and Trump off balance. Turnabout is fair play.
posted by zarq at 1:15 PM on December 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


If he's going to not do anything, can he fucking get on with not doing anything before people get hurt? Unless that's what he wants.

Trump will seize any straw to express contempt for minorities, and this is a big straw.

If it radicalizes people and leads to violence he can glory in and politicize, that makes it better for him. As per his Muslim ban and his response to the Quebec City mosque killings.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:16 PM on December 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


AFP White House Correspondent Andrew Beatty reports that a source is telling him Manafort's Deutsche Bank records were subpoenaed.

It's unclear to me whether this is in addition to the reported Trump subpoena or whether this is another case of misreporting involving Trump/Russia. For many reasons, I hope it's the former. But it sounds like it may be the latter.
posted by scarylarry at 1:29 PM on December 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


Historically, these kinds of party transformations are very difficult to reverse. They would seem all the more difficult now, with a charismatic leader whose every outrage reinforces his appeal. And if Trump succeeds in building his own version of a mafia state, America, once a beacon to all the world, Reagan's shining city, will more closely resemble Putin's Moscow.

Yeah, I'm going to need to see more than one aberrant election to call this a trend. A bunch of frog-marched imprisoned lackeys and a trouncing in 2018 might take a bit of the bloom off the orange.

Also, I'm not sure if I'd call the lowest approval rating of any new President in recorded history particularly charismatic.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:35 PM on December 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


Preet Bharara, who is for good reason fairly well regarded, pushes back pretty strongly in his Flynn quick-reaction podcast against the current accepted interpretation of the Flynn plea which is to see it as a sweetheart deal in return for his cooperation and that there are other more serious crimes he could have been charged with.

Bharara says that nobody he knows with a lot of experience in the system believes that to be the case despite basically every analyst on television accepting it as a given.

The other two options which Bharara sees as possibilities are, first, that the single count of lying is indeed the most serious crime they can prove Flynn committed at this juncture and the plea indicates Mueller's team doesn't have a lot on Flynn or second that, unusually, Flynn will be pleading out in stages because they don't want him to publicly plead to things which could implicate high profile people and cast a shadow on them with no guarantee that Mueller's team will ever have enough evidence to charge those people.

There's a lot of emotional incentive for us to believe the "sweetheart deal in return for taking down the Trumpers" narrative which is one reason we should maintain skepticism. Bharara is one of the few people who has firsthand experience with this sort of thing and he disbelieves this scenario fairly strongly.
posted by Justinian at 1:37 PM on December 5, 2017 [57 favorites]


Oh, Bharara never says which of options 2 and 3 (no stronger evidence against Flynn or an unusual and uncommon tactical move because of the high profile nature of this case) he believes only that he thinks the sweetheart deal theory is wrong.
posted by Justinian at 1:39 PM on December 5, 2017


Jeff Flake just tweeted his $100 donation to the Doug Jones campaign with the message "Country over Party."

If you're wondering how he felt after today's photo-op with Trump, the damage turns out to be precisely quantifiable: $100.
posted by zachlipton at 1:46 PM on December 5, 2017 [45 favorites]


$100 is okay. Yes he could have done way more. But $100 is relatable. $100 is 'I gave $100 and you can too'
posted by ian1977 at 1:49 PM on December 5, 2017 [25 favorites]


It's unclear to me whether this is in addition to the reported Trump subpoena or whether this is another case of misreporting involving Trump/Russia. For many reasons, I hope it's the former. But it sounds like it may be the latter.

It seems to me that the fact that Trump hasn't tweeted a genuine Trump bonkers tweet since yesterday is proof positive that the bank record subpoenas are real and they're hunkered down in war mode in the whitehouse.
posted by dis_integration at 1:51 PM on December 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


And really any amount of donation to the opposing party is a radical act.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 1:51 PM on December 5, 2017 [35 favorites]


I might believe Flake values "country over party" if he'd voted against the tax scam. As it is, I'm seeing that he values the innocence of 14-year-old girls a couple of decades ago over the safety, education, and future employment opportunities of 14-year-old girls today.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:55 PM on December 5, 2017 [61 favorites]


Trump thought it was ‘low class’ for Pence to bring pets to VP residence: report (Avery Anapol, The Hill)
The adviser told The Atlantic Trump told his secretary that he thought it was “low class” for the Pences to bring their pets to the Naval Observatory.

“He was embarrassed by it, he thought it was so low class,” the adviser said, according to the publication. “He thinks the Pences are yokels.”

At the time, the Pences had two cats, a rabbit named Marlon Bundo and a snake. After one of the cats died in June, the family adopted a new puppy and a kitten.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:01 PM on December 5, 2017 [27 favorites]


It's unclear to me whether this is in addition to the reported Trump subpoena or whether this is another case of misreporting involving Trump/Russia. For many reasons, I hope it's the former. But it sounds like it may be the latter.

Sekulow said: “We have confirmed that the news reports that the Special Counsel had subpoenaed financial records relating to the president are false. No subpoena has been issued or received. We have confirmed this with the bank and other sources.”

The initial reports were "Trump and his family" (reuters) and "Trump-related" (Financial Times), so, the accounts could be Kushner's or Ivanka's or accounts either received payments from - those wouldn't necessarily be "financial records relating to the president."
posted by melissasaurus at 2:03 PM on December 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


MARLON BUNDO? Don't you dare make me like him.
posted by scarylarry at 2:03 PM on December 5, 2017 [70 favorites]


Yeah it's a BFD and I have no problem with the amount. My problem is that Sen. Flake professes to put the country over his party, yet routinely embraces his party's most harmful policies, ones that will harm millions of people.

He wants to be known as better than the rest of them just because he draws the line at child molesters. And the scary thing is that he's not entirely wrong for that.
posted by zachlipton at 2:04 PM on December 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


In what world would pets be low class? That makes no sense.
posted by mumimor at 2:08 PM on December 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


...In what world would pets be low class? That makes no sense.

...more evidence we are in the wrong timeline.
posted by mosk at 2:11 PM on December 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


This is particularly interesting in conjunction with the widely-known fact that Trump hates dogs.
posted by cybertaur1 at 2:11 PM on December 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


This is probably a clutter comment, but FWIW, Marlon Bundo has an instagram and it is adorable. Clearly one of the Pences has a knack for social and they have some very cute pets.

(You may now go back to being deeply unhappy about the current state of affairs.)
posted by bowtiesarecool at 2:12 PM on December 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


In what world would pets be low class? That makes no sense.

Nah it makes perfect sense for Trump. Just have to look at it from the perspective of a narcissist.

Trump hates animals. Trump would never have a pet. Trump considers himself to be a prime example of high class. Therefore people who have pets are not high class.
posted by Jalliah at 2:13 PM on December 5, 2017 [23 favorites]


BOOM. NBC News, Ken Dilanian and Natasha Lebedeva, Donald Trump Jr. asked Russian lawyer for info on Clinton Foundation
Donald Trump Jr. asked a Russian lawyer at the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting whether she had evidence of illegal donations to the Clinton Foundation, the lawyer told the Senate Judiciary Committee in answers to written questions obtained exclusively by NBC News.

The lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, told the committee that she didn't have any such evidence, and that she believes Trump misunderstood the nature of the meeting after receiving emails from a music promoter promising incriminating information on Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump's Democratic opponent.

Once it became apparent that she did not have meaningful information about Clinton, Trump seemed to lose interest, Veselnitskaya said, and the meeting petered out.
This is significantly, if not totally, at variance with the story Don Jr. told us about an "adoption" meeting once upon a time. Is Veselnitskaya telling the truth? I don't know, but that's an awfully good argument for not putting yourself in this position.
posted by zachlipton at 2:15 PM on December 5, 2017 [48 favorites]


My favorite sign at the Tuesdays with Toomey protest in Philly today: "fuck this shit"
posted by angrycat at 2:16 PM on December 5, 2017 [40 favorites]


The adviser told The Atlantic Trump told his secretary that he thought it was “low class” for the Pences to bring their pets to the Naval Observatory.

“He was embarrassed by it, he thought it was so low class,” the adviser said, according to the publication. “He thinks the Pences are yokels.”

This is a laughably nouveau-riche understanding of "class". True old-money aristocrats are all about living alongside their (pedigreed) animals and not giving a shit about potentially causing offence or inconvenience to those around them who might be put off by it.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:20 PM on December 5, 2017 [61 favorites]


True old-money aristocrats are all about living alongside their (pedigreed) animals and not giving a shit about potentially causing offence or inconvenience to those around them who might be put off by it.

the sign of good breeding is not understanding that most taxpayers don't have a horse masseuse
posted by murphy slaw at 2:23 PM on December 5, 2017 [43 favorites]


Former federal prosecutor Mark Osler, Star-Tribune: Robert Mueller's investigation: Understanding an expert at work
So how did this deal get made? For many people, their understanding of this crucial step in a complex criminal investigation is defined by what they have seen in movies and television dramas. On a show like “Law and Order,” witness/defendants often flip, and it is a simple process: The defense attorney makes an offer for a specific charge or sentence (for example, “manslaughter one” or “three years”) in exchange for cooperation, and the prosecutors accept. Then the new cooperator begins to spill out information. Crying often ensues.

The reality is almost always more complicated.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:34 PM on December 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


Extra hilarisad: Nearly every president until now has had some kind of pet or other animal that he/his family owns and lives in the White House with them. Calvin Coolidge owned a fucking antelope. So he's implicitly calling, e.g. Ronald Reagan a low-class yokel.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:38 PM on December 5, 2017 [26 favorites]


To be a little fair, it is kinda Beverly Hillbillies to bring the rabbits and snakes to the veep residence.

Ivanka and Bannon were both on the official invite list.
posted by benzenedream at 2:40 PM on December 5, 2017 [27 favorites]


I'm just surprised Mike Pence would allow an animal as phallic as a snake to live under the same roof as his wife and two daughters.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:41 PM on December 5, 2017 [44 favorites]


Honestly, the fact that Pence seems to have a menagerie makes him seem more human. And the fact that Trump thinks pets are low class further cements him as a pathetic nouveau riche social climber.
posted by elsietheeel at 2:44 PM on December 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


I know were trying our hardest not to clutter threads these days but this discussion of presidents and pets takes me back to last October (2016) when on a whitehouse tour I learned about

CALVIN COOLIDGES PET RACOON REBECCA, sent to him for his Christmas meal by the state of Mississippi in 1926. But never eaten and kept as a beloved domesticated pet.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:48 PM on December 5, 2017 [67 favorites]


McClatchy: The GOP’s controversial dual effort to revamp the health care system and tax code has convinced Democrats they should bluntly assail Republicans as the defenders of out-of-touch plutocrats, a message party operatives have already begun to poll-test, include in attacks ads, and use against vulnerable incumbents even before Saturday’s passage of the Senate GOP bill.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:56 PM on December 5, 2017 [47 favorites]


A carefully worded correction from the WSJ (except for the uncareful part where they spell Mueller's name wrong):
An earlier subheadline said a subpoena from special counsel Robert Muller’s office requested data and documents about President Trump’s accounts. The subpoena concerns people or entities close to Mr. Trump.
That's tantalizingly vague and could involve anything from, say, Manafort's accounts to the accounts of Trump's many business entities.

Retuers and Bloomberg are standing by their stories though.
posted by zachlipton at 2:56 PM on December 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


CALVIN COOLIDGES PET RACOON REBECCA, sent to him for his Christmas meal by the state of Mississippi in 1926. But never eaten and kept as a beloved domesticated pet.

well it's no billy possum
posted by entropicamericana at 2:58 PM on December 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


The GOP’s controversial dual effort to revamp the health care system and tax code has convinced Democrats they should bluntly assail Republicans as the defenders of out-of-touch plutocrats, a message party operatives have already begun to poll-test,

jesus christ democrats, you'd poll test running against al capone as "soft on crime"
posted by murphy slaw at 3:01 PM on December 5, 2017 [41 favorites]


Preet Bharara, who is for good reason fairly well regarded, pushes back pretty strongly in his Flynn quick-reaction podcast against the current accepted interpretation of the Flynn plea which is to see it as a sweetheart deal in return for his cooperation and that there are other more serious crimes he could have been charged with.

Bharara says that nobody he knows with a lot of experience in the system believes that to be the case despite basically every analyst on television accepting it as a given.

I don't know if the writers at Lawfare are considered "in the system," but they are certainly more qualified than your average TV analyst, and they think the "sweetheart deal" interpretation is exactly right.

That said, Bharara is absolutely worth listening to, and his interpretation is depressing as hell.
posted by diogenes at 3:01 PM on December 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


That's tantalizingly vague and could involve anything from, say, Manafort's accounts

I bet anything it's at least Manafort.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:01 PM on December 5, 2017


murphy slaw: "jesus christ democrats, you'd poll test running against al capone as "soft on crime""

I don't think that's a fair reaction to the story, which clearly was that Dems are intending to go full speed ahead with class warfare. You still want to poll test "Congressman Smith is raising your taxes to give to millionaires" versus "Congressman Smith is stealing money needed for Social Security" or whatever, to see what exact formulation works best.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:08 PM on December 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


E.W. Jackson, conservative firebrand, preparing U.S. Senate bid in Virginia

A Corey Stewart vs. EW Jackson primary in Virginia for the right to challenge Tim Kaine would be crazytown.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:09 PM on December 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Grangousier: "If anyone can come up with anything more worth knowing about Benjamin Harrison I'd be very surprised indeed."

He was a pretty good president, by and large. He supported civil rights for African-Americans, civil service reforms, and anti-trust law. He was for assimilation of Native Americans, which certainly doesn't sound good now, but was the liberal position at the time (the right wing position was totally wiping out native populations).

He was also, of course, the grandson of William Henry Harrison.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:17 PM on December 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


This is a laughably nouveau-riche understanding of "class". True old-money aristocrats are [...]

Absolutely.. Aristocracy is easily defined by "I have all this money. What the F good is it if you won't do what I want?"
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 3:19 PM on December 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Native American Tribes Join to File Lawsuit Against Trump Attack on Bears Ears National Monument
posted by homunculus at 3:33 PM on December 5, 2017 [37 favorites]


This is a laughably nouveau-riche understanding of "class". True old-money aristocrats are [...]

Absolutely.. Aristocracy is easily defined by "I have all this money. What the F good is it if you won't do what I want?"

Literally every picture of an aristocrat or monarch ever painted has them with their damn dogs.

Trump doesn't like dogs because 1. he's a germaphobe and 2. they express unconditional love, which he cannot comprehend, and which therefore frightens him.
posted by leotrotsky at 3:37 PM on December 5, 2017 [52 favorites]


Am I wrong in thinking that a subpoena of Deutsche Bank's Manafort records is much less interesting than a subpoena of Trump/Trump family's DB records? At least from the point of view of today? After all, we already know that Mueller has indicted Manafort for financial crimes; presumably, we could have guessed he's accessed some or all of his bank records. Accessing Trump's records would be new information.

So the WSJ correction and the AFP clarification above feel a little deflating to me. But I'm confused, because that's not how I see other parts of the internet reacting to these corrections. Am I missing something?
posted by scarylarry at 3:41 PM on December 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


AFP White House Correspondent Andrew Beatty reports that a source is telling him Manafort's Deutsche Bank records were subpoenaed.

AFP's Heather Scott @heatherscottafp tweeted, however: "And another source outside of Washington confirmed to @AFP that Deutsche Bank was subpoenaed for Trump-related documents"

For little more on Team Trump's ties to Deutsche Bank (h/t @RVAwonk), recall that when Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross was vice-chairman of the money-laundering Bank of Cyprus, one of Ross’s first big decisions at the bank was the appointment of former Deutsche Bank chief executive Josef Ackermann as chairman. And last May the DoJ, under Jeff Sessions, settled abruptly a money-laundering case with the Russian-backed, Cyprus-based holding company Prevezon Holdings—represented by Natalia Veselnitskaya and financed by Deutsche Bank. On top of that, the Russian state-owned development bank Vnesheconobank (VEB, or, colloquially "the Bank of Spies")—whose CEO secretly met with Jared Kushner a year ago—signed a cooperation agreement in 2006 with Deutsche Bank. Better yet, the $285 million loan to Kushner Companies one month before the election that Jared personally guaranteed but failed to disclose was by from Deutsche Bank.
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:50 PM on December 5, 2017 [86 favorites]


Amazing round-up, Doktor Zed. Thank you.
posted by scarylarry at 3:53 PM on December 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


Does anyone know where I can pick up a good civics education? Is there a particular textbook, online course or anything else you'd recommend? I wish I understood more of how this stuff worked.
posted by cybertaur1 at 3:53 PM on December 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Am I wrong in thinking that a subpoena of Deutsche Bank's Manafort records is much less interesting than a subpoena of Trump/Trump family's DB records?

If it's either/or, I agree. If it's both, it's more like "I've got good news and great news."

Does anyone know where I can pick up a good civics education?

Are there practice citizenship tests available? Almost every naturalized citizen I know knows more about civics than almost every natural-born citizen I know.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:58 PM on December 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


[dogs] express unconditional love, which he cannot comprehend, and which therefore frightens him.

No, he craves unconditional love, but dogs are also totally, devotedly loyal, and in Trumpland that makes you a loser. Sad!
posted by The Tensor at 3:58 PM on December 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


Does anyone know where I can pick up a good civics education? Is there a particular textbook, online course or anything else you'd recommend? I wish I understood more of how this stuff worked.

the problem with using a civics textbook to understand the current situation is that it is going to assume that rules, laws, and conventions are going to be followed by both parties.
posted by murphy slaw at 4:00 PM on December 5, 2017 [28 favorites]


murphy slaw that might be true but I'd still love some sort of solid foundation to start understanding this stuff (even if things have since changed).

I actually think it's maybe better-suited to Ask Metafilter so I've gone ahead & posted it there, if you want to chime in.
posted by cybertaur1 at 4:03 PM on December 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Amazing round-up, Doktor Zed. Thank you.

You're welcome, but although I've been monitoring the news about Deutsche Bank as part of Trump's money-laundering for a while now, I found @RVA's background thread quicker to work from than my copious notes.

In the meantime, there's more from AFP: White House Denies Trump Bank Records Subpoenaed
A source close to the matter said to AFP that Germany's biggest bank had received a subpoena for documents related to its business dealings with the US president, after Bloomberg News and the German business daily Handelsblatt first reported a summons by special counsel Robert Mueller.

However, White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders rejected reports of a subpoena for Trump-related financial records as "completely false," as did Trump's personal attorney Jay Sekulow.[...]

After the White House denial, a source familiar with the matter, speaking on condition of anonymity, reiterated to AFP that Deutsche Bank had received the request several weeks ago.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:10 PM on December 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


Adding to the "Deutsche Bank loves laundering Russian money" linkfest, there's this excellent 2016 New Yorker article: Deutsche Bank’s $10-Billion Scandal - How a scheme to help Russians secretly funnel money offshore unravelled.

It isn't about any Trump connections, but it gives some context to how very dirty Deutsche Bank's hands are.
posted by diogenes at 4:10 PM on December 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Now it's Pence's turn in the Mueller room.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 4:19 PM on December 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Does anyone know if Deutsche Bank is "too big to fail" in Germany?
posted by leotrotsky at 4:22 PM on December 5, 2017


Now it's Pence's turn in the Mueller room.

"Hey! The keg's hidden over here, Mr. Mueller!"
posted by leotrotsky at 4:23 PM on December 5, 2017 [53 favorites]


TPM: Could Deutsche Bank Even Tell Trump?
TPM Reader CL points out that banks can be ordered not to notify a customer and presumably lawyers who represent them when grand jury subpoenas are issued for banking records.

From TPM Reader CL …
The President may want to hire lawyers who are familiar with what grand juries actually do. https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-423-grand-jury-subpoena-exception

The broad wording of the grand jury exception is significant:
Nothing in this title (except §§ 3415 and 3420 of the Act) shall apply to any subpoena or court order issued in connection with proceedings before a grand jury except that a court shall have authority to order a financial institution on which a grand jury subpoena for customer records has been served not to notify the customer of the existence of the subpoena or information that has been furnished to the grand jury, under the circumstances and for the periods specified and pursuant to the procedures established at § 3409. 12 U.S.C. § 3413(i).
I’m no expert in this area. But I must admit this basic issue occurred to me as soon as I saw Sekulow’s statement. Are things really set up so that the target of an investigation can simply call up the bank to see what a grand jury has asked to see? This suggests the answer can in many cases be no.
posted by chris24 at 4:24 PM on December 5, 2017 [21 favorites]


scarylarry: So the WSJ correction and the AFP clarification above feel a little deflating to me.

Well, for what it's worth, I think the WSJ correction was specifically to correct the impression/mis-statement that the subpoenas were for Trump's personal accounts as opposed to, say, accounts associated with the zillions of LLCs that he uses to manage his businesses. While in practice, there really isn't a difference between Trump himself and a Trump LLC, these are technically different legal entities. And this is precisely the kind of technical detail that a newspaper would want to correct, especially since there's a good possibility that Trump doesn't even have any personal accounts with Deutsche Bank.
posted by mhum at 4:36 PM on December 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


A People's History of the US, by Howard Zinn, should be a bulk of the civics education you are looking for

link
posted by waitangi at 4:44 PM on December 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


From the "say, neighbor, could you help me find my horse? i appear to have sold my barn doors" dept:

California Republicans Push to Preserve Income-Tax Deduction
WASHINGTON—Though the House and Senate have voted to repeal the deduction for state income taxes in Republican tax overhaul plans, it isn’t dead yet.

California Republicans are pushing for an income-tax deduction in the final tax bill being worked out by lawmakers in a House-Senate conference committee on tax legislation.

“There’s a lot of things that Californians are working on and why we said we’d move the process forward, looking to be able to make those fixes,” House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R., Calif.) told reporters on Tuesday.

In November, 11 of the 14 California Republicans in the House voted for the tax bill; New Jersey and New York GOP members, with similarly high state taxes, were much more willing to vote no. The House will need to vote again, and Republicans need 217 votes to guarantee passage if no Democrats vote for the bill.
posted by murphy slaw at 4:46 PM on December 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


maybe california republicans read the latest Quinnipiac Poll:
Another UGLY Q-Poll for GOP:
GOP tax plan approval: 29%
Trump approval: 35%
Generic House poll 50-36 +14D!
Generic Senate poll 51-37D
Holy Gender Gap Batman:
58-29 Women want Ds to control House.
45-42 Men want Rs.
- @StevenTDennis
posted by murphy slaw at 4:52 PM on December 5, 2017 [26 favorites]


James Comey tweeting a burn to rival of heat of a thousand suns. Accompanying a silhouette of him against the New York City sky, with the Statue of Liberty in the background, he tweets,
In NYC to meet with my publisher. Hope leadership book will be useful. Reassuring to see Lady Liberty standing tall even in rough weather.
Ain't that going to be a bestseller.
posted by vac2003 at 5:28 PM on December 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


From the "say, neighbor, could you help me find my horse? i appear to have sold my barn doors" dept:

Whoever runs against McCarthy needs to run this image on every available medium with the caption "THIS IS WHAT KEVIN MCCARTHY THINKS ABOUT TAKING MONEY FROM THE POOR AND GIVING IT TO RICH BILLIONAIRES".
posted by Talez at 5:39 PM on December 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


Ain't that going to be a bestseller.

That asshole gave us Trump. Fuck him, his book and the horse he rode in on. He's no hero.
posted by zarq at 6:00 PM on December 5, 2017 [43 favorites]


Politico, Helena Bottemiller Evich, Food stamp changes may usher in welfare reform push
USDA signaled on Tuesday plans to give states greater flexibility over how they administer food stamps, potentially opening the door to stricter work requirements or drug testing on recipients.

The announcement comes as Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker announced that he would move ahead with drug testing on able-bodied adults applying for food stamps, something the Obama administration had successfully blocked in the past. The Trump administration is also expected to announced that it would allow states to impose work requirements for Medicaid recipients — moves that anti-poverty advocates see as an assault on the safety net for vulnerable Americans.
posted by zachlipton at 6:05 PM on December 5, 2017 [16 favorites]


Looks like Trump is going to move the embassy to Jerusalem.

Trump with the reverse midas touch. Everything he touches he turns to shit.
posted by Talez at 6:06 PM on December 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


ELECTION RESULT

GOP GAIN in Massachusetts Senate Worcester & Middlesex, although nobody will report the freaking vote totals.

Dems still hold the MA Senate, 33-7.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:11 PM on December 5, 2017 [20 favorites]


ELECTION RESULT

Dem HOLD in Pennsylvania House 133, 66-29.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:12 PM on December 5, 2017 [34 favorites]


Does anyone know where I can pick up a good civics education? Is there a particular textbook, online course or anything else you'd recommend? I wish I understood more of how this stuff worked.

The things to search for for online courses would be "introduction to American government," "introductory American government," or "American political system." I honestly have no idea what's out there. I could email you my pile of slideshows if you really wanted but they wouldn't be so useful without me or someone like me blethering at you.

All the textbooks kinda suck -- they all have to try to satisfy multiple competing clienteles, they have to cover a gajillion different topics, and they have to switch back and forth between providing basic raw information and information about actual political science. FWIW, I use Bianco and Canon, but Kernell and Jacobson is also fine and maaaaybe better for an adult, and while I haven't used it Ken Kollman's book seems okay.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:17 PM on December 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


Ex-campaign aide: Pence's wife finds Trump 'totally vile'
Mike and Karen Pence were taken aback when the 2005 "Access Hollywood" tape, in which Trump is heard making lewd comments about women, leaked last year, The Atlantic reported.

A former campaign aide told the publication that Karen Pence was "disgusted."

"She finds him reprehensible-just totally vile," the former campaign aide added.
Between this and the Mike Pence coup article, how long will it be before Trumo starts to atrash his own VP.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:24 PM on December 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


Re: SNAP.

I really hope Gov. Scott Walker burns in hell. Food stamp fraud is probably the most overstated social welfare issue in the history of ever, but that absolute fucking piece of shit has managed to make it a selling point for his hateful bullshit rhetoric.

And because I've mentioned bad Scott Walker, I must remind you that a good Scott Walker exists, long may he beat pig carcasses in percussive time.

Scott Walker - The Old Man's Back Again (Dedicated to the Neo-Stalinist Regime)
Scott Walker - You're Gonna Hear From Me
posted by elsietheeel at 6:25 PM on December 5, 2017 [18 favorites]


Looks like Trump is going to move the embassy to Jerusalem.

The article says that he's going to announce that he plans to order that the embassy be moved, but that it will take three or four years - conveniently, the amount of time between now and the next election.

The USA already has a consulate in West Jerusalem that they could call an embassy while leaving the bulk of their staff and spy agencies in Tel Aviv. They could do this overnight: there's no rule that an ambassador has to live near the embassy rather than the consulate. They could just say they did the thing and change literally nothing else about how they operate – who's going to complain that the US Ambassador is breaching protocol? Certainly not the Israelis.

The only reason for making this out to be a big deal is that it's like Trump's other grandiose promises: something's going to be done, you betcha, and it'll be the biggest, most beautiful thing you've ever seen. In the meantime, for better or worse, nothing ever gets done. The campaign promises to watch are seem to be the ones he doesn't keep boasting about: they're the ones that are being pushed by other people and they tend to actually get done.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:26 PM on December 5, 2017 [16 favorites]


practice citizenship tests

USCIS has a Civics Practice Test.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:37 PM on December 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


So the New York Post has a story about a Mueller agent who praised Sally Yates. I have a super dumb question: why make a big deal about bias? I mean, they're prosecutors. They can't throw anyone in jail all by themselves- they need to convince judges and/or juries about whatever charges they're bringing, right? I'm not sure I see how due process is compromised here.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 6:48 PM on December 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


The praise for Sally Yates isn’t even anti-Trump, it’s just standing up for the law.
posted by gucci mane at 6:57 PM on December 5, 2017 [18 favorites]


Mueller got rid of the guy who texted his mistress about Trump doing something crazy, something Sasse, Corker, Graham, Flake, and probably half the Republican Congress have done. Meanwhile Gowdy had to pay a $150k settlement to someone he fired for not being partisan enough to go after Clinton in the absence of evidence. And we haven't even started talking about Ken Starr. Fuck them and their bias concern bullshit. It's purely theater like their concerns about deficits and morals; they only care when they can use it as a cudgel against Dems. And even then most of the time they're making it up or exaggerating it.
posted by chris24 at 6:59 PM on December 5, 2017 [79 favorites]


The only reason for making this out to be a big deal is that...
...is that it will drive all Palestinians from the peace table. For what that's worth, since there hasn't been much except desperation bringing them to the table. Whether Trump is gaming or not, this will kill any peace negotiations.
posted by CCBC at 7:06 PM on December 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


GOP GAIN in Massachusetts Senate Worcester & Middlesex, although nobody will report the freaking vote totals.

Worcester County has become Massachusetts' reddish underbelly.

In other Mass. news, Stanley Rosenberg, the progressive president of the state senate, was replaced yesterday (temporarily, they claim) as the senate looks to hire an independent investigator to look into whether his husband used his spousal connections to interfere with the operations of the senate even as he was allegedly sexually assaulting and harassing several men in 2015.
posted by adamg at 7:07 PM on December 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Also, the idea that the FBI, a bureaucracy overwhelmingly comprised of white male middle-aged cops, is some liberal anti-Trump bastion is laughable.
posted by chris24 at 7:08 PM on December 5, 2017 [70 favorites]


Rachel Reddick, the sole Democrat so far to announce a run against Republican Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick in Pennsylvania's 8th district, was registered as a Republican until recently. She says she's actually been a Democrat for 10 years, but just never switched her registration.
posted by adamg at 7:16 PM on December 5, 2017


Worcester County has become Massachusetts' reddish underbelly.

Eh, there's some of that - the district is purple - but I think it was mostly because both the Dem candidate and an independent candidate were councilors from Leominster. They ended up splitting the Leominster votes, and the GOP candidate cleaned up in his hometown of Fitchburg.

I think in a one on one campaign in 2018, this is a good candidate for a flip back to D.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:16 PM on December 5, 2017


CNN & the FBI are bastions of liberalism. I read a comment today that Breichbart wasn't a racist website. Less than a scaraucci ago der Klownwig himself was floating the idea that it wasn't really him on the pussy-grabbing tape he was on.

I argued for years that Jon Stewart's hilarious and justified exposées of Faux News was wasting time and bandwidth. We know one of the two parties always argues in bad faith, and it happens to be the more powerful one, with the army of media networks propping them up.

(tl;dr, "Man, fuck CNN.")
posted by petebest at 7:18 PM on December 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


@chris24: Also, the idea that the FBI, a bureaucracy overwhelmingly comprised of white male middle-aged cops, is some liberal anti-Trump bastion is laughable.

Not only that but Mueller is a Republican.
posted by gucci mane at 7:20 PM on December 5, 2017 [18 favorites]


Also, I’ve been trying to figure out how to get Mueller’s official portrait sent to me (I could have sworn there was a website where you could get official portraits sent to you but maybe that was for presidents only) and I stumbled upon this
posted by gucci mane at 7:22 PM on December 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


The more he hates Pence, the less likely he’ll conspire to pardon him.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:23 PM on December 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


CNN:
Robert Mueller may not be through with Rick Gates, a deputy Trump campaign aide and one of the four people who have been charged as part of the special counsel probe into Russian meddling in the 2016 election.

In a court appearance Monday in Manhattan, Gates' attorney Walter Mack said that federal prosecutors have told him that more charges, called superseding indictments, may be coming.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:27 PM on December 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


Lawsuit Could Put Trump's Sexual Misconduct Accusers Back In Spotlight - Hansi Lo Wang - NPR
posted by valkane at 7:34 PM on December 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


ELECTION RESULT

Dem HOLD in Georgia House 89.

This is one of a couple of intra-party runoffs tonight; the winner is Bee Nguyen, who looked maybe marginally less progressive than her rival, but this is a Clinton 90-6 district, and they were both both pretty lefty.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:42 PM on December 5, 2017 [21 favorites]


All cops fired after leaked texts reveal they said bad stuff about criminals
posted by theodolite at 8:06 PM on December 5, 2017 [34 favorites]


Lawsuit Could Put Trump's Sexual Misconduct Accusers Back In Spotlight - Hansi Lo Wang - NPR

hey NPR, you misspelled assault

related:

I wrote a piece for a mainstream outlet (not the NYT), mentioning the sexual assault allegations against Roy Moore. Some nervous lawyer edited it to "sexual misconduct." I said, okay, pull my piece. They reverted back to "sexual assault." Writers, don't let them lawyer you down. -- @zeynep
posted by murphy slaw at 8:07 PM on December 5, 2017 [91 favorites]


Banks can face significant fines and legal repercussions if they’re discovered to have done anything to directly or indirectly tip off the target of an investigation. Shit’s taken seriously.
posted by um at 8:09 PM on December 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


Sahil Kapur, Bloomberg: ‘Death to Democrats’: How the GOP Tax Bill Whacks Liberal Tenets
“It’s death to Democrats,” said conservative economist Stephen Moore, who advised Trump’s campaign on tax policy.

“They go after state and local taxes, which weakens public employee unions. They go after university endowments, and universities have become play pens of the left. And getting rid of the mandate is to eventually dismantle Obamacare,” Moore said in an interview, arguing that it would accelerate “a death spiral” in the health-care law’s marketplaces.

The tax overhaul represents the GOP-controlled Congress’s best chance for a policy win this year and looms large in the 2018 congressional elections. Not a single Democrat voted for either the House or the Senate bill. No Democratic amendments were approved in committee or on the floor of either chamber — and the final House-Senate joint product is all but guaranteed to come from Republicans-only negotiations.

“The people who are going get the most whacked by this are wealthy and upper-middle class people who live in big cities,” said John Feehery, a GOP lobbyist and former communicator for House leadership. “In other words, Democrats.”

“I don’t think there’s a conspiracy to go attack Democratic districts. But that’s how the legislative process works -- if you’re not going to participate in a game you’re going to lose,” he said. “You need the revenue, and those constituencies are not really being represented because their representatives refused to participate.”
The right is just gloating at this point. And continuing to push their lies.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:11 PM on December 5, 2017 [20 favorites]


GOP GAIN in Massachusetts Senate Worcester & Middlesex, although nobody will report the freaking vote totals.

Finally got the totals:

GOP 7240
Dem 6633
Indy 1554
Green 200

This is pretty clearly a loss due to too many candidates on the left, I'd feel pretty good about getting this one back next year.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:12 PM on December 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


I guess I'm really not following this "Lord, give me an Embassy in Jerusalem, but not yet" bullshit.

WaPo: Trump to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital in policy shift that could spark unrest
[Palestinian President Mahmoud] Abbas told Trump that he would “not accept it” and warned that the president was “playing into the hands of extremism.” But Trump “just went on saying he had to do it”. [...] King Salman bin Abdul Aziz of Saudi Arabia warned Trump “that such a dangerous step of relocation or recognition of Al-Quds as the capital of Israel would constitute a flagrant provocation of Muslims, all over the world.”

The backlash from other Middle East nations mounted Tuesday.

Speaking to the Turkish parliament, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said American recognition of Jerusalem would be a “red line” for Muslims, possibly forcing Turkey to cut diplomatic ties with Israel that were recently renewed after a six-year hiatus.
He's proposing to set the Middle East on fire, but with just a tease, while leaving the actual dirty work to after the next election, "because the process of moving it will take at least three or four years". (As Joe in Australia pointed out a few comments up, this is flagrant nonsense.)

Why? Who got paid by whom to make Trump insist that "he had to do it"? And this goes against the desires of Turkey and Saudi Arabia - or does it just provide a convenient domestic distraction? What's the endgame here?
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:17 PM on December 5, 2017 [18 favorites]


I'm sure this is part of the reasoning:

@CHarress: "The capital of Israel is Jerusalem," said Steve Bannon at the Roy Moore rally this evening in Fairhope, Alabama. It got the biggest cheer of the night.

But I don't get it.
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:22 PM on December 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


ELECTION RESULT

Dem GAIN in Georgia Senate 6. This is the district where, in a bit of a surprise, Dems took both runoff spots for this formerly GOP-held seat. And, even better, more progressive candidate Jen Jordan has beaten Jaha Howard, who was found to have made homophobic and misogynistic comments on social media.

This victory also means that the GOP no longer has a supermajority in the Senate, which will be important if Dems manage to retake the governor's mansion in 2018.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:22 PM on December 5, 2017 [53 favorites]


ELECTION RESULT

Dem HOLD in Georgia House 60. Both candidates were Dems, winner Schofield perhaps marginally less lefty, but as with HD-89, this is a very Dem district (Clinton 91-7).
posted by Chrysostom at 8:25 PM on December 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


The Jerusalem thing definitely seems like some Hal Lindsey shit, but Trump isn't into that, and I don't know if anyone he listens to is into it either? It feels like a plot point that doesn't make any sense but has to happen in order to set up some more spectacularly terrible thing.
posted by theodolite at 8:26 PM on December 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


I guess I'm really not following this "Lord, give me an Embassy in Jerusalem, but not yet" bullshit.

So far, Trump's motivation always seems to be explainable as:
• Money;
• Distraction from criminal misdeeds; or
• Russia.

This certainly isn't Russia. I suppose it might be money, but at this time it's probably just a distraction. And when this distraction fails God help us because the next one is North Korea.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:28 PM on December 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


You guys are overthinking it. Recognizing Jerusalem as the capital will piss off a lot of the Muslim world. Trump hates Muslims. Therefore, he is going to call Jerusalem the capital.
posted by Justinian at 8:29 PM on December 5, 2017 [55 favorites]


This certainly isn't Russia. I suppose it might be money, but at this time it's probably just a distraction.

What? No. He’s been talking this up since the campaign:

Trump to recognize Jerusalem as Israeli capital (The Hill)
He repeatedly promised during the 2016 campaign to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem, something that pleased many of his pro-Israel and evangelical Christian backers.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:38 PM on December 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


Quick question: has anyone ever followed the money in terms of the hard swing in evangelical ideology towards Israel? Anecdotally, talking to a friend with evangelical parents, he said that Israel was a HUGE talking point in their church, and they had even been to Israel on a church-funded vacation. The funding for that sort of thing has to come from somewhere.
posted by codacorolla at 8:44 PM on December 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


The Atlanta mayoral election looks like it may go to a recount. Keisha Lance Bottoms (Dem, African-American) has finished with a 759 vote lead over Mary Norwood (Independent, white).

KLB 49,464 50.41%
MN 45,705 49.59%
posted by Chrysostom at 8:52 PM on December 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


Israel is a popular destination for evangelical ‘bible’ tours. I’m guessing it’s the same mechanic at work as when people come back from Thailand and are suddenly Buddhists who love elephants. Following the money probably just leads as far as a handful of travel agents that specialise in these kinds of tours.
posted by um at 8:55 PM on December 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Trump is hyping up the Jerusalem shit because he wants every Bible thumper with a pulse to come out for Roy Moore, and this is one of the few non-laughable ways Trump can show he's on their side.
posted by benzenedream at 8:55 PM on December 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


ELECTION RESULT

Dem HOLD in Georgia Senate 39. Nikema Williams, who seemed to be slightly more left, was the winner in the all-Dem runoff.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:57 PM on December 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


He repeatedly promised during the 2016 campaign to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem, something that pleased many of his pro-Israel and evangelical Christian backers.

Hearing his followers cheer at this was one of the most chilling things I've ever heard.

I have no idea why these people don't believe Trump is the anti-christ.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:58 PM on December 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


Trump Lawyers Attempt to Sue an Environmental Philosophy under Anti-Racketeering Laws
posted by jeffburdges at 9:11 PM on December 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


Getting a little more understanding here. It seems like the billionaires want their services rendered.

NYT: U.S. to Recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s Capital, Trump Says, Alarming Middle East Leaders
To some extent, Mr. Trump’s willingness to take such a risk underscores how little progress his peace negotiators — led by his son-in-law, Jared Kushner — have made.

... Mr. Trump’s pledge was extremely popular with evangelicals and pro-Israel backers, including the casino magnate Sheldon Adelson, who donated $25 million to a political action committee supporting Mr. Trump during the presidential campaign. Mr. Adelson expressed anger when Mr. Trump signed the waiver in June to keep the embassy in Tel Aviv.

The White House, which has done little to lay the groundwork for the move, on Tuesday contacted pro-Israel leaders from the Jewish and Christian communities to invite them to a conference call set for Wednesday afternoon ... Reaction to Mr. Trump’s move in the Arab world was swift and negative, even from normally friendly leaders... A spokesman for the Palestine Liberation Organization said the [Abbas-Trump] call had given shape to the worst fears of Palestinians.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:12 PM on December 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


So far, Trump's motivation always seems to be explainable as:
• Money;
• Distraction from criminal misdeeds; or
• Russia.

Another important motivator is pure flattery. If you tell him that something is brave and hard and scary and only a courageous man of action could do it, a man like you mr trump! It will quickly become a top priority for history’s easiest mark
posted by dis_integration at 9:15 PM on December 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


So, pretty much, fox and friends is actually running the country. Awesome.
posted by valkane at 9:18 PM on December 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


I posted an FPP last year for an article by author Tom Bissell. He had gone on a ten day “Stand with Israel Tour” hosted by right-wing Jewish Conservative talk show pundit Dennis Prager with 450 Evangelical Christians. It's a fascinating read (the article, not the FPP) if anyone is interested in learning more about them.
posted by zarq at 9:42 PM on December 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


Israel is a popular destination for evangelical ‘bible’ tours. I’m guessing it’s the same mechanic at work as when people come back from Thailand and are suddenly Buddhists who love elephants. Following the money probably just leads as far as a handful of travel agents that specialise in these kinds of tours.

The trip they went on was heavily subsidized, and I doubt in the extreme it was subsidized by a local suburban church. That has to come from somewhere.
posted by codacorolla at 9:54 PM on December 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


32 House Republicans telling Ryan they want a DACA solution this year.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:58 PM on December 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


Well, apparently Beyonce presented Colin Kaepernick with an award at the Sports Illustrated Sportsperson of the Year awards today. So I guess we know what half of the Trump tweets will be about in the morning.
posted by mmoncur at 10:14 PM on December 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


That Jerusalem thing?

Trump to recognize Jerusalem as capital of Israel [cbc.ca, Matthew Lee and Josef Federman, The Associated Press]
posted by porpoise at 10:41 PM on December 5, 2017


I have no idea why these people don't believe Trump is the anti-christ.

Maybe they do, but then the coming of the anti-christ would actually be a wonderful thing (seriously), as it means that revelations is starting to happen and their savior is due... Any minute now.

I wish I was joking.
posted by el io at 10:54 PM on December 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


Trump Lawyers Attempt to Sue an Environmental Philosophy under Anti-Racketeering Laws

I don't necessarily believe that Earth First is a terrorist organization. But certainly others do. I was pretty unthrilled when I clicked on that link without seeing I was going to that site (okay, I guess that was my fault), as I don't need that link in my permanent record.

So, before clicking on that site, folks, be aware that it's the journal of Earth First. They may call themselves an 'environmental philosophy', but I think a more apt term is 'a direct action activist group', while others certainly call it a terrorist group.
posted by el io at 11:00 PM on December 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


The adviser told The Atlantic Trump told his secretary

So this is from way up in the thread and not all that important, but something about this just bugged me. To recap, The Hill is reporting that The Atlantic reported that an adviser to Trump said that Trump's secretary said that Trump said that the Pences were "low-class." Isn't this just a little much, even for The Hill?
posted by J.K. Seazer at 11:34 PM on December 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


Isn't this just a little much, even for The Hill?

Apparently not.
posted by el io at 11:42 PM on December 5, 2017


The trip they went on was heavily subsidized, and I doubt in the extreme it was subsidized by a local suburban church. That has to come from somewhere.

Some answers here:
Birthright*-inspired Trip for U.S. Christians Aims to Bring Thousands to Israel
tl;dr: Hobby Lobby, and Zionist Jews
&
Christian Evangelicals' Mass Aliyah Push Touches Jewish Nerve
&
Evangelical Aid Was Once Taboo in Israel. Now It's on the Rise. Why? / Once regarded with suspicion in the Jewish state, Christian donations are helping to fill the gaps left by dwindling Jewish contributions. What's changed?

So, two interesting things here. Money from American Jewish Zionists has been on the decline, and in certain quarters replacing that with Evangelical Christian money is desirable. Also, the latter is explicitly driven by a similar decline in support at the organizational (church) level, as the evangelical bloc is not as solid as it once was.

*Birthright is an organization that sponsors American Jewish field trips to Israel ('aliyah'), for approximately similar Zionist political purposes. The itineraries are quite different, as you may expect. For Jews, the objective is emigration.
posted by dhartung at 11:55 PM on December 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


Looks like inviting a bunch of Nazis to their big ball paid huge dividends for the Zionist Organization of America.
posted by Yowser at 12:15 AM on December 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


For Jews, the objective is emigration.

For many end times Christians it's probably the same objective...
posted by PenDevil at 12:17 AM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


They couldn't possibly follow the anti-Christ, they're good old fashioned Christians, not like that black fellow over there...

I had the displeasure to skim past an anti-immigrant thread on a FB post tonight that contrasted "ILLEGALS" with "God-fearing people." And I really, really wanted to ask what the hell god had to do with immigration status, especially for Latino immigrants, who are among some of the most devout Christians as a group. (Yes, I know, Catholic, might as well be satanists to some people, but...)

Anyway, just the amount of knee-jerk "all religious people look like me and agree with me, people that I dislike are by definition ungodly" bullshit out there makes me want to puke.
posted by threeturtles at 12:29 AM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Isn't this just a little much, even for The Hill?

I think I heard it from one of the guys on Pod Save America, that The Hill is what congressional aides read in the bathroom.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 12:32 AM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Chrysostom, a word of thanks again for the election updates. I’m in awe that you not only keep up with this stuff, and pass it on to us, but that you know the context of the smallest races and why they’re important. Truly, you’re a marvel.
posted by greermahoney at 12:52 AM on December 6, 2017 [66 favorites]


So the New York Post has a story about a Mueller agent who praised Sally Yates.

Sally Yates was a top Justice Department official. Why would it be weird for an employee of the Justice Department's special counsel to praise a top Justice Department official? Seems like that is what you would expect.
posted by msalt at 1:41 AM on December 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


Leader of the #Resistance Chuck Schumer on Trump moving the US embassy to Jerusalem: “As someone who strongly believes that Jerusalem is the undivided capital of Israel, I am calling for the US Embassy in Israel to be relocated to Jerusalem. Moving the embassy as soon as possible would appropriately commemorate the fiftieth anniversary of Jerusalem’s reunification and show the world that the US definitively acknowledges Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.” [10 October 2017]
posted by indubitable at 1:51 AM on December 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Leader of the #Resistance Chuck Schumer on Trump moving the US embassy to Jerusalem: “As someone who strongly believes that Jerusalem is the undivided capital of Israel, I am calling for the US Embassy in Israel to be relocated to Jerusalem. Moving the embassy as soon as possible would appropriately commemorate the fiftieth anniversary of Jerusalem’s reunification and show the world that the US definitively acknowledges Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.” [10 October 2017]
posted by indubitable at 1:51 AM on December 6 [3 favorites +] [!]

Yeah, if there ever was an unholy alliance...
posted by mumimor at 3:12 AM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Schumer is basically repeating the 2016 Democratic platform, which says that
While Jerusalem is a matter for final status negotiations, it should remain the capital of Israel, an undivided city accessible to people of all faiths. Israelis deserve security, recognition, and a normal life free from terror and incitement. Palestinians should be free to govern themselves in their own viable state, in peace and dignity.


I mean, anything Trump says or does is either stupid and ineffective or malicious and harmful, but there's bipartisan consensus on this.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:34 AM on December 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Harvard: Millennials now biggest voting group in U.S., 2-1 Democratic
A new Harvard University poll Tuesday is blaring a loud danger signal to the Republican Party after finding that millennials are now the largest generation of voters and they are overwhelmingly Democratic, by a two-to-one margin.

The latest youth poll from Harvard’s influential Institute of Politics found that America’s 18-29-year-olds prefer Democrats 65 percent to 33 percent, in part because they don’t like President Trump and are “fearful” about the future.

Also driving their concern is a worry that blacks and Hispanics “feel significantly under attack” in the U.S., and that issues younger voters care about such as global warming and gun control are being ignored in Washington.
posted by chris24 at 4:05 AM on December 6, 2017 [47 favorites]


America’s 18-29-year-olds prefer Democrats 65 percent to 33 percent, in part because they [...] are “fearful” about the future.

Strictly from a survival perspective, if you expect to live past 2040 or so, you either vote Democratic or are really into the fourteen words. The GOP really doesn't seem to be planning for any kind of future, let alone one that you'd want to live in.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:36 AM on December 6, 2017 [66 favorites]


Schumer is basically repeating the 2016 Democratic platform

1) Nothing in that sentence says anything about the embassy
2) Schumer is not the spokesperson for many of his Jewish constituents, let alone Jewish Americans as a whole
3) Being a part of the Democratic platform does not automatically confer the status of total agreement among Democrats

I mean, anything Trump says or does is either stupid and ineffective or malicious and harmful, but there's bipartisan consensus on this.

Again, that's not a consensus of Democrats, maybe not even the platform drafting committee. It's almost assuredly not the consensus among Jewish Americans as a whole, who (even if they wanted the move to happen eventually) it seems would largely prefer to put this kind of thing off if it would increase conflict and decrease the likelihood of a two-state outcome. Which, of course, it will.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:43 AM on December 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


Times' Person Of The Year has just been announced - it is the #metoo movement, not Trump.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:49 AM on December 6, 2017 [95 favorites]


Some context for folks on Trump’s move on Israel:
Donald Trump is telling leaders from across the Middle East that he intends to declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel, an explosive move that will break from 50 years of US foreign policy, potentially derail his administration’s hopes of restarting the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, and threaten to spark violence across the region.

The administration’s planned announcement is already sparking fury across the Arab world. A spokeswoman for Abbas’s office issued a statement early Tuesday warning of “dangerous consequences” if Trump moves forward with plans to eventually move the embassy. King Abdullah was equally critical, saying in a statement that the White House shift on Jerusalem “will undermine the efforts of the American administration to resume the peace process.”

Right-wing Israeli leaders, by contrast, didn’t try to disguise their happiness. In a message to Trump, Naftali Bennett, the head of the Jewish Home party, said he wanted to thank “you from the bottom of my heart for your commitment and intention to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.”

The sharply divergent reactions highlight the fact that there is almost no other issue in the Middle East as contentious as the future of Jerusalem. (Vox)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 4:50 AM on December 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


FWIW, I hold beliefs predicated first on the ideals in the Declaration of Independence, then on my Jewish faith and heritage.

"One Nation, With Liberty and Justice FOR ALL" is my desired end state. But that's not going to happen in the State of Israel as it stands. That said, why can't I be in a better dimension than this? One where it's not a relevant topic in US Politics.
posted by mikelieman at 4:51 AM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


For Jews, the objective is emigration.

This is not entirely the case. Birthright trips are also a way for Zionist organizations to instill a love of Judaism and Israel in visitors. There is an implicit understanding that not everyone will emigrate. If they don't, one of the more prominent lessons taught visitors through various experiences is that Israel is a refuge for Jews and vitally important if we are to survive as a people. This lesson has been dismissed as propaganda by anti-Zionists but its logic and emotional impact are also hard to argue against, considering the fact that six million perished in the Holocaust while countries like America turned us away. Judaism has a long institutional memory for tragedy and betrayals, but the Shoah didn't happen all that long ago. As well, there is a subtle emphasis placed on the idea that Israel is under constant danger of attack by groups like Hezbollah and Hamas. Again, hard to argue against when evidence is visible. Even if the actual situation is far more complicated than "they want to slaughter us all."

Many Jews return from Birthright with a fierce sense that no matter what the Israeli government has done or whether they disagree with what it is currently doing, the country of Israel as a refuge for oppressed Jews must survive.
posted by zarq at 5:05 AM on December 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


Times' Person Of The Year has just been announced - it is the #metoo movement, not Trump.

Glad to see #metoo was willing to sit for an interview and photos.

I would have been happy with any number of suggestions flaoted before, like Colin Kaepernick, but #metoo doesn't just honor something antithetical to Trump, it hits him sqaure in the nuts, and right after endorsing Moore.

Go ahead, tweet about it, asshole. Every time you open you mouth you create one more woman going to the polls and voting against everything you stand for.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:18 AM on December 6, 2017 [30 favorites]


NelsonMuntz.gif

@pbump:
Not only is Trump not Person of the Year, he is mentioned in the piece as both a harasser and a motivation to speak out.
http://time.com/time-person-of-the-year-2017-silence-breakers/
posted by chris24 at 5:22 AM on December 6, 2017 [69 favorites]


Hoping next year it’s Mueller.
posted by Melismata at 5:23 AM on December 6, 2017 [44 favorites]


Zervos' lawyer says she understands the presidency is a 24/7 job but like any human he doesn't do his job 24/7. "We can take a deposition at Mar a Lago" while he’s there to play golf, attorney Mariann Meier Wang says.

Oh, snap!
posted by Gelatin at 5:28 AM on December 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


'Holy crap': Experts find tax plan riddled with glitches
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:28 AM on December 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


This is not entirely the case. Birthright trips are also a way for Zionist organizations to instill a love of Judaism and Israel in visitors.

The graphic novel “How To Understand Israel In 60 Days Or Less" by Sarah Glidden is a good account of this, from a left-wing, sceptical, secular-Jewish American point of view.
posted by acb at 5:38 AM on December 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


FBI Director Christopher Wray is in front of House Judiciary for an oversight hearing today.

Ah, thank you. I'm also looking forward to any statements after Junior's little trip to the House Intelligence Committee today. I hope the mixer lasts exactly long enough to ask one question.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:38 AM on December 6, 2017


Many Jews return from Birthright with a fierce sense that no matter what the Israeli government has done or whether they disagree with what it is currently doing, the country of Israel as a refuge for oppressed Jews must survive.

As a left-wing, secular American Jew (who spent elementary school and junior high in a private Conservative Jewish day school with a Zionist bent and visited Israel in 1993), I kind of feel like Americans should focus more on ensuring that America survives as a refuge for all oppressed minorities, but whatever.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:51 AM on December 6, 2017 [50 favorites]


'Holy crap': Experts find tax plan riddled with glitches

I mentioned this in chat, but it's still hilarious to me that the Republicans had to choose between infuriating the voters and infuriating their donors, and cocked it up so badly that they infuriated both
posted by Merus at 5:53 AM on December 6, 2017 [74 favorites]


So much winning. And a pretty blunt official statement by the German government.

@RikeFranke (Policy Fellow at ECFR)
"global dominance of the US is slowly becoming history" - speech by German Foreign Minister at #BerlinFPF now online.
posted by chris24 at 5:56 AM on December 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


“The people who are going get the most whacked by this are wealthy and upper-middle class people who live in big cities,” said John Feehery, a GOP lobbyist and former communicator for House leadership. “In other words, Democrats.”

“I don’t think there’s a conspiracy to go attack Democratic districts. But that’s how the legislative process works -- if you’re not going to participate in a game you’re going to lose,” he said. “You need the revenue, and those constituencies are not really being represented because their representatives refused to participate.”

The right is just gloating at this point. And continuing to push their lies.

The weird part is that their analysis is pretty wrong. They are actually whacking the people in cities who are most likely to be Republicans or at least conservative leaning DINOs.

It really seems like America has lost all sense of proportion in declaring places Red or Blue when they are actually almost all shades of purple.
posted by srboisvert at 6:02 AM on December 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


“I don’t think there’s a conspiracy to go attack Democratic districts. But that’s how the legislative process works -- if you’re not going to participate in a game you’re going to lose,” he said. “You need the revenue, and those constituencies are not really being represented because their representatives refused to participate.”

That is precisely what happened.

Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell reached out across the aisle and said "Dear Democratic friends, we desperately need your input on health care and tax reform, so please join us in debating these issues, crafting amendments and reaching a bipartisan compromise" and the Dems said "Fuck you, we're going to sit over here and play Pokemon Go and kneel during the national anthem instead."
posted by delfin at 6:15 AM on December 6, 2017 [28 favorites]


They are actually whacking the people in cities who are most likely to be Republicans or at least conservative leaning DINOs.

I know a lot of upper middle class people in the major blue cities and they overwhelmingly vote Democrat. Outside of the tech bro and libertarian spheres, a lot of the millennial/late Gen-X IT sector is very leftist. The right-wing factions in IT get a lot of attention because they're noisy but in my experience are a minority.
posted by Candleman at 6:16 AM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


I was hoping that Mueller would get the Time thing, but then Trump would probably fire him for taking attention away from him.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:17 AM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


From T.D. Strange's link above:
Some liken it to when Democrats rushed the Affordable Care Act through Congress and ended up with scads of legislative snafus.

Oh, fuck you, Politico. The ACA was actually extensively debated and pretty carefully thought out. The fact that it seems to be made entirely out of duct tape and baling wire is due to the precarity of the complicated moving parts involved in mandating a subsidized regulated private marketplace; there's literally no way of doing that which isn't as fussy as the ACA is. The single biggest problem with the ACA before this year when the executive decided to start ignoring their obligations was the Medicaid gap, which was the unfortunate side effect of an unforeseen judicial decision, rather than a problem baked into the legislation itself.

By way of contrast, the tax bill is coming out of the Senate broken because that is what happens when you try to write laws in a 48-hour legislatothon.
posted by jackbishop at 6:19 AM on December 6, 2017 [76 favorites]


WTfuckingF?!?

Yeah, #MeToo needed to win.

WaPo: Conyers faced mounting sexual misconduct allegations as he weighed his future
Morse told The Post she quit her internship after Conyers drove her home from work one night, wrapped his hand around hers as it rested in her lap, and told her he was interested in a sexual relationship. When she rejected his advances, Morse said he brought up the then-developing investigation into the disappearance of former federal intern Chandra Levy.

“He said he had insider information on the case. I don’t know if he meant it to be threatening, but I took it that way,” Morse said in an interview. “I got out of the car and ran.”
posted by chris24 at 6:20 AM on December 6, 2017 [27 favorites]


The situation with the CSR payments was also a genuine drafting error in the ACA that allowed Republicans to fuck with the law and challenge those payments even though the intent of Congress was clearly that they be paid, as was the language that gave rise to the ridiculous Hobby Lobby case. Both of those provisions would have been fixed in a clean up bill after ACA passage, but Republicans blocked all technical fixes because death panels and Obama was black.

Democrats should return the favor, no matter the costs. If Republicans get final passage, Democrats should filibuster any subsequent fix bill, even if it results in huge unintended consequences.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:24 AM on December 6, 2017 [22 favorites]


And further confirmation on the Harvard poll I linked above about millennials. From the Quinnipiac poll previously mentioned.
Among 18-29 year olds:

* 19% identify as GOP
* 15% have favorable view of GOP
* 18% approve of GOP tax plan
* 78% say the tax plan will help the wealthy most
* 92% say they are just as motivated or more motivated to vote
* 62% want Democrats to control the House
* +40 Democrat generic house ballot advantage
* 73% want Trump to never tweet
posted by chris24 at 6:25 AM on December 6, 2017 [57 favorites]


As a left-wing, secular American Jew (who spent elementary school and junior high in a private Conservative Jewish day school with a Zionist bent and visited Israel in 1993), I kind of feel like Americans should focus more on ensuring that America survives as a refuge for all oppressed minorities, but whatever.

To "survive" as something it would have to first become that something.

America has never been that refuge. It may one day become a safe haven for oppressed minorities. But I doubt it.

As Jews, we should be painfully aware of America's racist history.

When the people in power in America's government and American society in general start acting en masse to protect oppressed minorities, I'll celebrate. Trump was elected because he is an isolationist, xenophobic racist. Not despite those attitudes. And legions of elected Republican officials share his values.
posted by zarq at 6:36 AM on December 6, 2017 [27 favorites]


'Holy crap': Experts find tax plan riddled with glitches
Some of the provisions could be easily gamed, tax lawyers say. Their plans to cut taxes on “pass-through” businesses in particular could open broad avenues for tax avoidance.
uh, that article lists a lot of unintended consequences of the tax plan but this isn't one of them. "broad avenues for tax avoidance" for the rich is one of the core goals of this legislation.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:41 AM on December 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


As Jews, we should be painfully aware of America's racist history.

Mentally, I insert "Jew" everywhere that Trump and the GOP say "Muslim". And that's why I drink too much.
posted by mikelieman at 6:42 AM on December 6, 2017 [37 favorites]


ELECTION RESULT

Dem HOLD in California Assembly 51. In the last of the all-Dem runoffs yesterday, the leftier candidate, labor activist Wendy Carrillo, was the winner.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:42 AM on December 6, 2017 [20 favorites]


Franken needs to go. And now. Especially this week before the AL election is important. He is the fig leaf many Rs are using to defend Moore.

Politico: Another woman says Franken tried to forcibly kiss her
A former Democratic congressional aide said Al Franken tried to forcibly kiss her after a taping of his radio show in 2006, three years before he became a U.S. senator.

The aide, whose name POLITICO is withholding to protect her identity, said Franken (D-Minn.) pursued her after her boss had left the studio. She said she was gathering her belongings to follow her boss out of the room. When she turned around, Franken was in her face.

The former staffer ducked to avoid Franken’s lips. As she hastily left the room, she said, Franken told her: “It’s my right as an entertainer.”
posted by chris24 at 6:43 AM on December 6, 2017 [34 favorites]


Some liken it to when Democrats rushed the Affordable Care Act through Congress and ended up with scads of legislative snafus.

Oh, fuck you, Politico. The ACA was actually extensively debated and pretty carefully thought out. The fact that it seems to be made entirely out of duct tape and baling wire is due to the precarity of the complicated moving parts involved in mandating a subsidized regulated private marketplace; there's literally no way of doing that which isn't as fussy as the ACA is. The single biggest problem with the ACA before this year when the executive decided to start ignoring their obligations was the Medicaid gap, which was the unfortunate side effect of an unforeseen judicial decision, rather than a problem baked into the legislation itself.

By way of contrast, the tax bill is coming out of the Senate broken because that is what happens when you try to write laws in a 48-hour legislatothon.

Obamacare took 9 months to negotiate, had 160 GOP markups, had the support of the American Medical Association, AARP, and American Hospital Federation, and twice President Obama addressed the nation directly in a prime time speech to lay out the benefits while he had a 63% approval rating.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:45 AM on December 6, 2017 [96 favorites]


America has never been that refuge. It may one day become a safe haven for oppressed minorities. But I doubt it.

This is an unfair characterization. America has been that refuge. It may be imperfect in that regard, but 10s of thousands of Bosnian Muslims living in and around St. Louis and other places in the US would beg to differ with your statement. They came here in the 90s, during our lifetimes. Sometimes, we have such short memories when it comes to recognizing when America excels.
posted by Groundhog Week at 6:46 AM on December 6, 2017 [22 favorites]


“It’s my right as an entertainer.”

"When you're a star, they let you do it."
posted by chris24 at 6:46 AM on December 6, 2017 [26 favorites]


Franken needs to go. And now. Especially this week before the AL election is important. He is the fig leaf many Rs are using to defend Moore.

Seriously. And even if you're brutally realpolitik, Minnesota's got a Democratic governor and a deep bench. Heck, Keith Ellison could take that seat.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:47 AM on December 6, 2017 [40 favorites]


We have a big Bosnian Muslim community here in Atlanta, too (refugees from all over the world are settled here). Many of them are my students. They are scared of the discrimination against Muslims happening here because they have seen this happen before, and they are terrified of what could happen next.
posted by hydropsyche at 6:48 AM on December 6, 2017 [30 favorites]


Make Senator Ellison happen just for the look on the face of Roy Moore.
posted by delfin at 6:53 AM on December 6, 2017 [31 favorites]


The ACA was both intensively debated and amended and rushed through in a hurry. After the Dems lost their 60 vote majority in the Senate (Scott Brown), they were forced to skip conference and ask the House to vote on the Senate’s version, snafus and all. That was the occasion of Pelosi’s famous quip.
posted by notyou at 6:53 AM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


The hole blown in the GOP plan by the AMT fuckup is so big that it probably makes the bill a net tax increase:
Appears corporate AMT provision probably raises >$300B, not $40B JCT estimated under duress Fri night. This means Rs have to take Senate bill to conference and can’t just have House pass it, unless they want to *really* piss off bus community. 1/5

I’m getting >$300B from fact that provision appears to repeal R&D credit, which costs ~$113B, and participation exemption, which costs $216B. See JCT estimates at https://www.jct.gov/publications.html?func=startdown&id=4860 … and https://www.jct.gov/publications.html?func=startdown&id=5043 …. 2/5

And corporate AMT provision does a lot more than this, so even $300B is probably low-balling. 3/5

Before corp AMT amendment, Senate bill raised taxes on individuals by $82B and cut taxes on business by $48B in 2027. After amendment, could conceivably raise taxes on both, incl. US MNEs and manufacturers, though need revised JCT estimates to know for sure. 4/5

Fact that Rs have to go to conference constrains their options, especially if Collins, Flake or others have second thoughts after seeing more evidence that commitments they received (e.g., Alexander-Murray, DACA) are not going to be honored. 5/5
-- Lily Batchelder, Professor of Law & Public Policy at @nyulaw. Former Deputy Director @WhiteHouse NEC; former Chief Tax Counsel @SenateFinance.

posted by murphy slaw at 6:56 AM on December 6, 2017 [67 favorites]


That was the occasion of Pelosi’s famous quip.

Though her famous quip - "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it" - didn't mean people couldn't or shouldn't read it. She was saying that people would see the true beneficial effects, not the bullshit lies, once it was in place. The whole controversy was yet another manufactured Republican lie.
posted by chris24 at 6:58 AM on December 6, 2017 [51 favorites]


This is what you get when you do your homework on the bus ride to school, you lazy incompetent doofs.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:58 AM on December 6, 2017 [28 favorites]


Fact that Rs have to go to conference constrains their options, especially if Collins, Flake or others have second thoughts after seeing more evidence that commitments they received (e.g., Alexander-Murray, DACA) are not going to be honored. 5/5

...and that's what you get for being duplicitous, McConnell. Though I'm shocked that this was any surprise to Collins or Flake.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:00 AM on December 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


...and that's what you get for being duplicitous, McConnell. Though I'm shocked that this was any surprise to Collins or Flake.

Yet again I wonder what kind of charmed life these people have led to be that old and not know that if someone lies to everyone, they're lying to you, too.
posted by winna at 7:06 AM on December 6, 2017 [30 favorites]


This is an unfair characterization. America has been that refuge. It may be imperfect in that regard, but 10s of thousands of Bosnian Muslims living in and around St. Louis and other places in the US would beg to differ with your statement. They came here in the 90s, during our lifetimes. Sometimes, we have such short memories when it comes to recognizing when America excels.

Okay, so the part of Faint of Butt's comment I responded to was:

"I kind of feel like Americans should focus more on ensuring that America survives as a refuge for all oppressed minorities"

FoB italicized the "all" and that's what I focused on. We've never been a safe haven for everyone. We have taken in some immigrants and minority groups. We've closed our borders to others and instituted quotas for some groups. Many minority groups (American and immigrant alike) have been subjected to sustained, institutionalized racism throughout this country's history. It still happens today. Since the larger conversation (or at least, what I brought up) was some Jewish American attitudes towards Israel as a refuge, historically speaking it wasn't all that long ago that Jews were one of the groups that were turned away from immigrating to America.

America doesn't excel at being a refuge. If it did, all immigrants and refugees would be welcomed with open arms and treated equally. All American minority groups would be as well.

I strongly believe we should be fighting for an ideal America that is those things. But we need to be realistic about it, too.

Trump's government is pushing state-sponsored Islamophobia. The Muslim ban just took effect again. White supremacy is on the upswing. It's all very worrisome.
posted by zarq at 7:20 AM on December 6, 2017 [26 favorites]


The Trump Organization‏ @Trump
Last night at the 2017 @TrumpRealty Holiday Party! Thank you to all of our incredible New York City residents for attending and we look forward to seeing you in the New Year
The war on Christmas strikes back! This time targeting Trump's family!
posted by Talez at 7:29 AM on December 6, 2017 [29 favorites]


FoB italicized the "all" and that's what I focused on. We've never been a safe haven for everyone. We have taken in some immigrants and minority groups. We've closed our borders to others and instituted quotas for some groups.

Ah, okay. I understand your comment better now.

But in particular, it is important to remember that we did, at one time, welcome Muslim refugees with open arms into our country, and in recent memory too. For me, that historical fact gives me hope that we can be that again, and do it better in the future.

It gives me hope in the face of these facts you state:

Trump's government is pushing state-sponsored Islamophobia. The Muslim ban just took effect again. White supremacy is on the upswing. It's all very worrisome.

We can win, because we have won before. The power of white supremacy has waned before, we can make it wane again.

My hope for the future, rooted in recognizing when we have done well in the past, is where my criticism of your comment came from. I hope you can see where I'm coming from.
posted by Groundhog Week at 7:35 AM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


That was the occasion of Pelosi’s famous quip.

In fact it wasn't some off the cuff quip at all. It was part of a speech given on March 9, 2010, 12 full days before the House passed the final bill, to the National Association of Counties’ annual Legislative Conference in Washington.

And the "quip" they always quote isn't even the entire sentence. The full quote is "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy." Plus the surrounding details of the speech make the context and intent even more clear.

And of course, the text of the bill had been available for months. The House passed their version in October 2009 and the Senate theirs in December 2009.
posted by chris24 at 7:36 AM on December 6, 2017 [34 favorites]


So, I am not a lawyer or a parliamentarian, but I have been reading Senate Rule XXVIII, and this is my understanding of how the process of reviewing a conference-committee bill will proceed:
  • Paragraph 3(a) specifically forbids new matter in the conference bill except as otherwise permitted.
  • Paragraph 3(c) allows a point of order to be raised against any matter in violation of 3(a).
  • Paragraph 5(b) indicates that any material so challenged will be stricken from the bill if sustained by the Presiding Officer.
  • Paragraph 6(a) allows the Senate to waive these points of order, but only with a 60-vote supermajority.
  • Paragraph 6(b) allows the Senate to overrule a judgment of the Presiding Officer, with a 60-vote supermajority following an an hour of debate equally split between the two parties' leaders.
So, if the bill comes out of conference committee with changes not in either the House or Senate bill, which seems likely, any sitting Senator can challenge the provision. Then the Presiding Officer (is that Mitch McConnell, in this case?) can rule on the validity of the claim. Then if sustained, they need a supermajority (which they won't get if there's solid Democratic opposition) to keep the language or it's cut out of the bill. If the point of order is overruled, though, they would need a supermajority (which, likewise, the Republicans won't provide) to overrule but the Democrats do get half an hour to make them look bad for doing so.

Is my analysis of this parliamentary procedure correct? And more importantly, what provisions (even norms, although the current Republican leadership doesn't give a shit about those) keep the Presiding Officer tethered to reality in their judgment of what points of order can be sustained? That seems to be the one main potential stumbling block to obstructing this bill through raising points of order against all the places they're trying to fix their fuckups.
posted by jackbishop at 7:36 AM on December 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


> Trump's government is pushing state-sponsored Islamophobia. The Muslim ban just took effect again. White supremacy is on the upswing. It's all very worrisome.

I can't imagine Trump personally gives a shit about where Israel's capital is located, but if he can provoke increased radicalization and/or a terrorist attack which would a) distract from the Russia probe and b) "justify" state-sponsored Islamophobia, that would be very helpful to him and his fellow travelers.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:39 AM on December 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


Then the Presiding Officer (is that Mitch McConnell, in this case?) can rule on the validity of the claim.

The Presiding Officer is the Vice President, Mike Pence. In his absence the responsibility is given to the most senior member of the majority party, in this case Orrin Hatch.
posted by Talez at 7:40 AM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Make Senator Ellison happen just for the look on the face of Roy Moore.

Do this ASAP so that he has seniority over Roy Moore per Senate rules.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:46 AM on December 6, 2017 [30 favorites]


delfin: "Make Senator Ellison happen just for the look on the face of Roy Moore."

Which is fun, but I'd say appointing a woman to the seat would be more appropriate. We discussed several good options in prior threads.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:48 AM on December 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


GOP Tax Bill "wipes out" coal jobs, says Murray Energy CEO. “We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”

"I wish there was a word to describe the pleasure I feel at viewing misfortune."
posted by leotrotsky at 7:49 AM on December 6, 2017 [30 favorites]


As she hastily left the room, she said, Franken told her: “It’s my right as an entertainer.”

I can't imagine anyone, even Trump and especially Franken, saying this verbatim. That has to be the woman's approximation of what was said, yes? Doesn't mean the event didn't happen, but that's just such a weird, robotic thing to say.
posted by schoolgirl report at 7:50 AM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


“This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”

And all he's done is make completely empty promises about creating more coal jobs, so I'm a little confused here.
posted by Melismata at 7:53 AM on December 6, 2017 [16 favorites]



I can't imagine anyone, even Trump and especially Franken, saying this verbatim.

oh jeez I can hear it in his voice without even trying. doesn't mean she did or didn't remember with perfect accuracy what he said, but that is so precisely what a guy like that would do, offer an ironic running commentary on his entitlement because that makes it funny, plus if he gets it, it isn't real.

I have a literal text message still on my phone from a guy who thought he was being flirty and self-deprecating by talking up his "sexual harassment skills." and it wasn't Al Franken. this IS a thing men do and they do expect you to laugh. this is the most believable part and I believe all of it anyway.

"lampshading" is what they call it when it's on television, I don't know what they call it when it's this. it is a thing. the thing of things.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:55 AM on December 6, 2017 [94 favorites]


oh jeez I can hear it in his voice without even trying. doesn't mean she did or didn't remember with perfect accuracy what he said, but that is so precisely what a guy like that would do, offer an ironic running commentary on his entitlement because that makes it funny, plus if he gets it, it isn't real.

Fair enough, thank you. It's just so "evil genius" it's hard to believe, but if these past months have taught anything it's that this stuff shouldn't be hard to believe at all.
posted by schoolgirl report at 7:58 AM on December 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Do this ASAP so that he has seniority over Roy Moore per Senate rules.

Do it ASAP so he can help defeat Moore. So help me, if Franken resigns the week after the election - and we all know now with all the people coming forward (it's 7 now) that resignation is where this ends - after giving many Rs the cover to vote Moore, I'm gonna go ballistic.
posted by chris24 at 7:59 AM on December 6, 2017 [28 favorites]


And all he's done is make completely empty promises about creating more coal jobs, so I'm a little confused here

EPA drops rule requiring mining companies to have money to clean up pollution
posted by salvia at 8:08 AM on December 6, 2017 [28 favorites]


I've read that the recipe for humor is to make people kind of uncomfortable (confused, offended, disgusted, even threatened), and then relieve that discomfort with a re-assuring punchline ("Haha, there was no real threat! It all makes sense! And it's all okay!"). Like... pretty much all laughter is just a response to feeling relieved. And it's really good for us! It relieves general anxiety, to go through that emotional cycle.

But first you have to produce the discomfort, the anxiety. And a joke can easily go wrong, when you succeed at producing the anxiety, but the punchline doesn't relieve it.

Rape jokes and racist jokes are the clearest examples. You can make people uncomfortable by walking right up to a taboo. But often the punchline is "Haha, violations of that taboo aren't really a threat to us!" And obviously, that's only reassuring to some people, people who aren't actually threatened...

Anyway, yeah, "self deprecating jokes" about sexual harassment or assault can easily work that way. To the guy, the punchline is "Haha, of course I'm not really a threat, I'm a good person!" The woman still feels uncomfortable.

I think a lot of the people who have been accused this year genuinely believe they are innocent, or at least mostly innocent. Even if they actually did everything they are accused of, I think it's highly likely that they would forget it or misremember it. Bullies often forget incidents that haunt their victims for life. For the bully it was just a joke, a minor thing.

For them there was never a real threat. Haha, made you think there was! But it's just me! Joke accomplished, moving on...

But the woman continues to feel under threat, for a long time.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:11 AM on December 6, 2017 [52 favorites]


Fair enough, thank you. It's just so "evil genius" it's hard to believe, but if these past months have taught anything it's that this stuff shouldn't be hard to believe at all.

If there's one thing we've learned in this blasted hellscape 2017, it's that sometimes villains really do twirl their mustaches like Snidely Whiplash, and really are transparently evil motherfuckers.

What's more, until very recently, openly acknowledging that one was a complete monster did not carry any negative repercussions to one's career. Maybe 2018 can deliver us that pony.
posted by Mayor West at 8:22 AM on December 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


Michael Tackett, New York Times: Women Line Up to Run for Office, Harnessing Their Outrage at Trump:
They have been joined by hundreds of other women across the nation, with the number seeking elective office rising at every level, according to the Center for American Women and Politics at Rutgers. They were angered by Mr. Trump’s election and energized by the Women’s March in Washington the day after his inauguration, and are now even more driven to get involved after the flood of sexual harassment allegations against powerful men.
Good! I hope this flood of women running for office stays a flood, and there are women everywhere in every Democratic party seat in the land. Sarah Kliff, Vox: Electing women makes a difference.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:31 AM on December 6, 2017 [37 favorites]


Democratic Rep. Al Green says he will force House impeachment vote
Rep. Al Green (D-Tex.) said in a memo to fellow lawmakers that he planned to bring articles of impeachment to the House floor Wednesday as a “privileged resolution,” one that would be entitled to a vote within two days under House rules.
Minnesota's got a Democratic governor and a deep bench. Heck, Keith Ellison could take that seat.

I could almost see Franken liking this idea.

Which is fun, but I'd say appointing a woman to the seat would be more appropriate.

Please, let's not make this women vs Muslims. Roy Moore literally said Muslims should not be allowed to serve in Congress.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:36 AM on December 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


chris24: 73% (of 18-29 year olds) want Trump to never tweet

So, my dreams of Trump in prison were even happier when I realized he won't have access to Twitter. And then I wondered, if Trump is "only" impeached, is he still "newsworthy" enough for Twitter to allow him to promote hate and intolerance?
posted by filthy light thief at 8:37 AM on December 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Gillibrand calls for Franken to resign (Facebook link, but available without an account).
posted by melissasaurus at 8:37 AM on December 6, 2017 [24 favorites]


It's a joke. He went in for the kiss, got ducked, and then tried to save face by making that ridiculous statement. Which... would be likeable in him, if we were all still on the same page about this stuff being harmless fun. BUT WE'RE NOT.
posted by Don Pepino at 8:39 AM on December 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


So, my random thought for this morning. Any state where the Dems take over in 2018 should see legislation introduced to assign redistricting to an independent commission, such as what we have in Arizona. It's not perfect, but I shudder to think how bad our lines would be if the state legislature were to draw them. It's entirely possible for the Dems to gerrymander in their favor in 2020, but if there's no check on the state legislture's power to redistrict, there's nothing whatsoever stopping the GOP from redrawing districts to favor themselves again. We have swing districts in Arizona that change hands and that's not possible without the redistricting commission. What's telling is how hard the GOP fought to get rid of the commission and give redistricting power back to the legislature. They took it to SCOTUS and lost.
posted by azpenguin at 8:42 AM on December 6, 2017 [14 favorites]


[Twitter] McCaskill joining in asking for Franken resignation, expect to see an avalanche.
posted by localhuman at 8:43 AM on December 6, 2017 [21 favorites]


Gillibrand calls for Franken to resign (Facebook link, but available without an account).

Senators McCaskill, Hirano, and Hassan have called for his resignation now too. This drip, drip of additional accusers coming forth is worse than just getting him out of there. I hope this last piece convinces him that it's time to go.
posted by gladly at 8:44 AM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Other calls for Franken's resignation:

Senator Claire McCaskill

Senator Maggie Hassan

Senator Mazie Hirono
posted by Existential Dread at 8:44 AM on December 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


It's entirely possible for the Dems to gerrymander in their favor in 2020, but if there's no check on the state legislture's power to redistrict, there's nothing whatsoever stopping the GOP from redrawing districts to favor themselves again.

Independent districting is probably a smart strategic move for Dems. It seems likely that with Dems naturally geographically concentrated, Republicans can gerrymander more easily/effectively than Dems can.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:46 AM on December 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Women doing the fucking work, once again. Who will be the first male senator to call for resignation?
posted by melissasaurus at 8:46 AM on December 6, 2017 [58 favorites]


WSJ tax plan calculator.

It says I'm getting a tax cut. I should NOT be getting a tax cut. I am not numerically in the middle class, I do not need a tax cut, and I don't want one (I prefer a civilized society, to paraphrase Holmes). And the more charitable giving I do, the less of a cut I get.
posted by Dashy at 8:48 AM on December 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Do it ASAP so he can help defeat Moore.

I think he should resign too but let's not pretend the use of Franken as a fig leaf by these clowns actually has any power. This would relieve them of a possible statement but its not going to change single vote from anyone already defending Moore.
posted by phearlez at 8:48 AM on December 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Another woman senator, Patty Murray. No men as yet.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:49 AM on December 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


I think he should resign too but let's not pretend the use of Franken as a fig leaf by these clowns actually has any power. This would relieve them of a possible statement but its not going to change single vote from anyone already defending Moore.

Agreed. See: The Daily 202: Why so many women are still supporting Roy Moore in the Alabama Senate race (Washington Post). The reasons are varied, but none of them relate to Franken.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:54 AM on December 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


> And all he's done is make completely empty promises about creating more coal jobs, so I'm a little confused here.

For a lot of voters, empty promises from a Republican politician > actual positive results from a Democratic politician.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:54 AM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


The GOP for Doug Jones movement is real [Warning: graphic description of sexual assault]
While polls are extremely close, Dowdle said that from speaking to her Republican friends and neighbors also planning on voting for Jones, she believes that the Democrat will carry the state.

“There’s a whole lot more of us than people want to admit to out there,” Dowdle said.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:54 AM on December 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


WSJ tax plan calculator.

The WSJ is a Trumpist organ, so I wouldn't even trust the results of this calculator. Of course they'd want their readership base to think they're getting a tax cut, whether it's true or not.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:55 AM on December 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


Well here's another, non-WSJ, Tax Plan Calculator folks can try. No idea how accurate its assumptions are (it appears to be based on the House plan only), but CalcXML's angle is less political and more commercial as they design and code some of the branded calculators you find online.
posted by notyou at 9:01 AM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Faint of Butt, did you look at what the calculator is modeling? It seems pretty straightforward, income, children, mortgage/property taxes, pass-through.

I got it via Kai Ryssdal on twitter, and a bunch of respondents there indicated tax increases.
posted by Dashy at 9:02 AM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Press conference going on right now with Gillibrand and others. (Facebook link again, but no sign-in needed.)
posted by melissasaurus at 9:04 AM on December 6, 2017


I think he should resign too but let's not pretend the use of Franken as a fig leaf by these clowns actually has any power. This would relieve them of a possible statement but its not going to change single vote from anyone already defending Moore.

I think/hope it's going to be close and I do believe it might change a few votes, keep a few people home, change the dialogue over the next 6 days. As we saw in VA and last night in Atlanta, every vote counts. Giving people permission to vote against Rs or sit out can be important. Like Flake's check. Not a big $$ amount but maybe gave a few moderates cover to vote D or at least write in someone. Sure, not gonna change the diehards and nutjobs, but there's people on the margin and in a close race they can be key.
posted by chris24 at 9:06 AM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Women doing the fucking work, once again. Who will be the first male senator to call for resignation?

Bob Casey (D-PA), my senator, is the first male senator I've seen join the call.
posted by gladly at 9:08 AM on December 6, 2017 [38 favorites]


Ah, okay. I understand your comment better now.

No worries. I should have been clearer.

But in particular, it is important to remember that we did, at one time, welcome Muslim refugees with open arms into our country, and in recent memory too. For me, that historical fact gives me hope that we can be that again, and do it better in the future.

I hope so.

We can win, because we have won before. The power of white supremacy has waned before, we can make it wane again.

The last year has been hellish in a lot of ways, and recent events have made me wonder whether White Supremacism has remained strong in America but more hidden than it used to be.

My hope for the future, rooted in recognizing when we have done well in the past, is where my criticism of your comment came from. I hope you can see where I'm coming from.

I do.
posted by zarq at 9:11 AM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Women doing the fucking work, once again. Who will be the first male senator to call for resignation?

Representative Joe Crowley (D-NY) called for Franken's resignation last Thursday. He's the Chairman of the House Democratic Caucus.
posted by zarq at 9:13 AM on December 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


(I know Crowley's not a Senator. But still, he's a highly ranked Congressman.)
posted by zarq at 9:15 AM on December 6, 2017


More male senators are joining the chorus now for Franken to resign. I just saw an announcement for Joe Donnelly.
posted by StrawberryPie at 9:18 AM on December 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


I’m getting >$300B from fact that provision appears to repeal R&D credit, which costs ~$113B, and participation exemption

I understand the R&D credit repeal. Actually making things is for rubes. The participation exemption though...that one hits a lot of financial con artists hard.
posted by srboisvert at 9:20 AM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


(I know Crowley's not a Senator. But still, he's a highly ranked Congressman.)

He really really wants to be in the running for Speaker if/when the dems retake the house.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:21 AM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


If Franken drops out soon, a whole bunch of whataboutisms evaporate right before the election. It also encourages more women to come out in the open about their experiences. But he has to do it NOW.

There's got to be more shoes. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more of those shoes will be on the party of Roy Moore.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:21 AM on December 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


"Military service was a particularly bold line of attack for a longtime adviser to a president who avoided Vietnam by receiving five draft deferments between 1964 and 1972."

"Bold" is one word for it. These fucking people. Come for the gross hypocrisy at the top, stay for leave after reading about the Moore supporter who insinuates that she wishes she could just shoot protesters.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:24 AM on December 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


There's got to be more shoes.

Franken himself said he didn’t know if more would come. And when asked why he couldn’t remember he said he’d hugged a lot of people taking pix. There’s definitely more.
posted by chris24 at 9:26 AM on December 6, 2017


I know Crowley's not a Senator. But still, he's a highly ranked Congressman.

Good point. I just tweeted Ted Lieu and asked him to support the calls for Franken's resignation. His district is on fire right now so he may be a little preoccupied.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:27 AM on December 6, 2017


Harkening back to the arguments around here a scaramucci or so ago, this is why Franken's resignation is better than waiting for a "full investigation," even granting that the process is asymmetric and Republicans will always deny and resist on their side. A thorough investigation should certainly come, but the damage done between the first set of accusations and now, let alone weeks or months more of this, is not sustainable. Nor is it just, especially if he's not denying most of the accusations. He should have been gone weeks ago, but better late than never.
posted by chortly at 9:27 AM on December 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Also, the first accuser was dismissed by some as a Republican. Today’s accuser was a congressional Democratic intern. It’s not some scheme. It’s him.
posted by chris24 at 9:28 AM on December 6, 2017 [14 favorites]


Latest word is Franken will make an announcement tomorrow. Story is changing very quickly now.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:30 AM on December 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


Good point. I just tweeted Ted Lieu and asked him to support the calls for Franken's resignation. His district is on fire right now so he may be a little preoccupied.

Thank you! I sent emails to Gillibrand and Schumer and my local Rep last week asking them to call for Franken's resignation. Was happily surprised to see her speak out this morning.
posted by zarq at 9:30 AM on December 6, 2017


From earlier: So yes, going on the attack is needed. Targeting Trump directly because we have learned that he is pathetically insecure and can't handle it.

Not only that, make clear as part of the attack that Trump is pathetically insecure and can't handle it. Predict that he will waste time lashing out on Twitter instead of solving this country's problems. Deride him for putting his own ego ahead of this nation's interests once again, because he just can't help himself.

Sure, he could always prove one wrong by showing some self discipline and containing himself, but fat chance. And so Trump himself will contribute to the narrative that he's a weak fool.
posted by Gelatin at 9:30 AM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Meg Kinnard‏
@MegKinnardAP
MOREHEAD, Ky. (AP) — A gay man who was denied a marriage license by a Kentucky county clerk will run to unseat her in 2018. Democrat David Ermold announced his candidacy Wednesday to challenge Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:31 AM on December 6, 2017 [139 favorites]


Has anyone heard more about this, from WUSA9 (local DC news)

Still light on details but it was apparently a joint FBI/ATF operation involving "gang activity" (presumably not related to Trump, alas).
posted by halation at 9:36 AM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


jackbishop: If the bill comes out of conference committee with changes not in either the House or Senate bill, which seems likely, any sitting Senator can challenge the provision. [...] If the point of order is overruled, though, they would need a supermajority (which, likewise, the Republicans won't provide) to overrule but the Democrats do get half an hour to make them look bad for doing so. Is my analysis of this parliamentary procedure correct?

I was hoping someone with actual knowledge would pipe up with an answer here. It seems right to me, but it really doesn't matter much, except that Democrats get to chew up more time on the legislative clock and put together some campaign commercials, because...

> What provisions (even norms, although the current Republican leadership doesn't give a shit about those) keep the Presiding Officer tethered to reality in their judgment of what points of order can be sustained?

I'm pretty sure the correct answer here is: None. There's no reason why Mike Pence (or Orrin Hatch) would ever sustain a Democratic point of order against a provision that busts the 1.5 trillion dollar margin, for example. They would rule against it, there would be a vote, the Senate majority vote would back up the presiding officer, the end.

I think the horse has pretty much left the barn, and it's going to keep galloping forward unless the conference committee badly screws things up and fails to come up with a product that appeases the House right-wing jackasses. (Jeff Flake and Susan Collins are, after all is said and done, still Republicans, and they're not going to hold up a tax cut. I will bet a cake - my first cake - on that.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:37 AM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


MSNBC has uploaded Veselnitskaya's statements to the Senate about her meeting with Trump Jr. The overall point is that she's on an anti-Browder crusade of sorts (lots of stuff there if you're into the Bill Browder drama generally), but flatly denies any sort of election-related shenanigans. It's 50 pages of dense, occasionally-clunky translated text, so if you delve into it you might need an extra dose or two of your favorite caffeine delivery mechanism.
posted by creampuff at 9:41 AM on December 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


I think the horse has pretty much left the barn, and it's going to keep galloping forward unless the conference committee badly screws things up and fails to come up with a product that appeases the House right-wing jackasses. (Jeff Flake and Susan Collins are, after all is said and done, still Republicans, and they're not going to hold up a tax cut. I will bet a cake - my first cake - on that.)

Right, but conference slows them down, and the slower they move the more likely they are to fail. The House and the Senate are on different planets in terms of what they can pass through their houses. There's a reason why McConnell was racing like his pants were on fire. And, the longer it takes them, the more other must-pass shit they're going to have to deal with, like the government shutting down, DACA, CHIP, healthcare fixes, and the debt ceiling. And with more time, the more we learn about the terrible consequences of their terrible legislation and who gets screwed as a result. Many of those groups that are getting screwed have lobbyists. The more the lobbyists work, the more likely they can't get a revenue neutral bill together. And the wack-jobs in the Freedom Caucus are always demanding the impossible (they're already throwing their weight around).

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things are already out of hand.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:45 AM on December 6, 2017 [34 favorites]


This thread has been up a while, but I just wanted to call out the title. "Collusion Course." That is a nice, solid, compact pun. Well done, Merus.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:47 AM on December 6, 2017 [53 favorites]


T.D. Strange The GOP for Doug Jones movement is real

Having witnessed the utter and abject failure of the #NeverTrump Republicans to exist in any significant numbers, I doubt very much that the author of that piece is correct. I hope they are, but I doubt it.
posted by sotonohito at 9:47 AM on December 6, 2017 [24 favorites]


Looks like Trump'll have to fire Rosenstein, so at least there'll be a [insert day here]-Night Massacre to grab attention when the edging-toward-inevitable happens.

Scott McFarlane, NBC: Deputy AG Rosenstein Says He's Satisfied With Special Counsel Mueller's Work
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:49 AM on December 6, 2017 [22 favorites]


I would say the #NeverTrumpers have been very successful at taking to social media to express "grave concern" about trump's breaches of protocol while soberly addressing him as "Sir" or "Mr. President" and tut-tutting about his use of coarse language and naughty words and then lending their full support to whatever petty administrative horrors he and his team of goons try to ram through.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:03 AM on December 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


Ugh, each senator calling for Franken's resignation has Twitter replies that are nothing but "Trump should go first!" and "What about Moore?"

Anyone who supports the resignation of Franken but only on the "condition" that Trump and/or Moore quits first is literally letting Republicans establish the standards of minimal decency. These people think it's the other way around, that it's some kind of one-sided disarmament, but it's not. It's just having a baseline for what it even means to be a Democrat, working on behalf of the people.

If we have to wait until Trump resigns before any Democrat guilty of doing anything Trumplike should quit, then the amount of "allowable" wrongdoing is also Trump-deep, which is to say, completely bottomless. Franken could shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue and apparently it would be okay (to some) as long as Trump did it first. "You want Democrats to shoot themselves in the foot?" No, I want Democrats to keep their damn hands and lips to themselves. Sheesh.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 10:03 AM on December 6, 2017 [55 favorites]


Which is fun, but I'd say appointing a woman to the seat would be more appropriate.

Please, let's not make this women vs Muslims. Roy Moore literally said Muslims should not be allowed to serve in Congress.

I think that the most appropriate person to fill that seat will be the person most qualified to represent me as my Senator. Well, 2nd most qualified since Amy Klobuchar is our other Senator.

Out of the Minnesota politicians that I can think of off hand, Ellison is the most obvious pick. That he's muslim and a POC are just little side benefits.

If there is someone else that is equally as qualified then maybe it would make sense to talk about that person's demographic benefits vs. Ellison's. Or maybe it makes sense to talk about why a female Senator would be a better fit vs. a man other than the sense of cosmic justice it would bring. As I typed that I even thought of one such reason. I think the odds are really, really low that there is some sexual assault maleficence in Ellison's past that could come back to haunt us. but forcing Franken to resign only to have him replaced with another sexual predator would be a crushing blow. The odds whatever woman who might be tapped for the role has some similar incident in their past is virtually zero.

So then the question is, who is more qualified for the seat than Ellison?

I'll also add that if there is a Presidential run in Ellison's future I do kind of like the idea of replacing Trump (or whoever keeps the seat warm until 2020 ) with another black man, this time one who actually is a muslim. I don't know that he aspirations in that direction or if he'd make a good president but it's a nice thought.
posted by VTX at 10:05 AM on December 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Mod note: Couple deleted. Let's not get further into Holy Land tourism and so on in this thread. And in general as this Franken thing develops today, people can maybe just pause for a couple minutes and collect a few tweets into groups rather than racing to repost things there the moment they're said; we can keep the thread more focused by taking one step back from the "breaking" mindset.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:06 AM on December 6, 2017 [20 favorites]


If they just slow down the bill until the new Alabama senator arrives, whoever that is, it’s a headache for Republicans. Obviously Jones would be awesome. But I imagine that Roy Moore, legislative bomb thrower, answerable to no man, party of one would cause Mitch McConnell serious heartburn. And honestly, do you think Roy Moore gives a flying fuck about marginal corporate tax rates? The man rode a horse to vote and pulled a gun at a campaign rally. He lives to be contrarian! And he must hate all these stuffy DC Republicans who ditched him.

So yeah, delay that bill as much as possible.
posted by Glibpaxman at 10:07 AM on December 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


If Franken drops out soon, a whole bunch of whataboutisms evaporate right before the election. It also encourages more women to come out in the open about their experiences. But he has to do it NOW.

I wish I could believe this but Republicans (Trump, Moore) have already made their strategy clear. "Democrats have admitted it but we deny everything so we stay and they go." The fact that Democrats resigned will be used as a cudgel by Republicans. Not even whataboutism -- they are already saying "See? It's DEMOCRATS who are perverts, we're just unfairly accused by these insane harlots."

Anyone who supports the resignation of Franken but only on the "condition" that Trump and/or Moore quits first is literally letting Republicans establish the standards of minimal decency. These people think it's the other way around, that it's some kind of one-sided disarmament, but it's not.

The third alternative is to insist that all allegations against Congresspeople of either party are investigated thoroughly with public hearings, instead of letting the perpetrator decide whether to quit or not. If Democrats just resign, how is that NOT unilateral disarmament? Republicans are still there, with no standards of decency at all.
posted by msalt at 10:17 AM on December 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Past presidents dating back to a 1995 law have signed a waiver every six months to delay moving the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem to preserve national security. U.S. officials said Trump would continue to sign the waiver until the embassy was ready to move, which logistically would take three or four years.

"...it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."
posted by leotrotsky at 10:21 AM on December 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Quinnipiac poll: The U.S. Congress should investigate accusations of sexual harassment against President Trump, Americans say 70 - 25 percent.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:24 AM on December 6, 2017 [54 favorites]


I maintain that Trump's motivation WRT Israel is a desire to distract and anger his opposition. Look how well it's worked here.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:26 AM on December 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Doug Jones has called on Franken to resign.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:26 AM on December 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


It just occurred to me today that if there were any sufficient groundswell of real moral outrage, every GOP voter in Alabama could show up to the polls and write in Luther Strange. Or hell, just write in "a Republican who's not a sexual predator" and force the governor (??) to deal with however that works. There could be a coordinated effort to not vote for Moore. Instead, the RNC is throwing money and the narrative is blatantly "vote for this guy or A DEMOCRAT will win." There could have been ways to not vote for either of them. There's no shortage of GOP machinery in Alabama who might have chosen to go rogue.
posted by nakedmolerats at 10:26 AM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Mike Memoli, NBC: Whistleblower: Flynn told ex-partner Russia sanctions would be ripped up

Donald Trump was just 11 minutes into his presidency when his choice for national security adviser, Michael Flynn, texted a former business partner to say an ambitious U.S. collaboration with Russia to build nuclear reactors in the Middle East was "good to go," according to a new whistleblower account.

As Trump delivered his inaugural address, says the unnamed whistleblower, Flynn directed Alex Copson, managing director of ACU Strategic Partners, to inform their business partners "to put things in place."

Flynn basically texted "Engage Treason Phase 2" during the inaugural address.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:26 AM on December 6, 2017 [76 favorites]


VTX: " Or maybe it makes sense to talk about why a female Senator would be a better fit vs. a man other than the sense of cosmic justice it would bring. "

I'm at the point where someone who resigns for sexual harassment/related should be replaced by a woman, if there is anyone at all qualified. In the event of a Senator, by appointment; in the event of a special election, the party should back a woman.

That's not a commentary on Ellison, I just think this is the appropriate response. There are numerous qualified women in MN - the LG, the AG - for the position.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:28 AM on December 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


If Democrats just resign, how is that NOT unilateral disarmament? Republicans are still there, with no standards of decency at all.

It's the opposite. Republicans will effectively brand themselves the party of sexual assaulters with no standards.

"But, with Trump they already did! And they won that election!"

Yep, and it's hurting them. President has lowest 1st year approval rating in recorded history. It's hurting them now with millennials, with women voters, with moderate Republican voters with a sense of propriety (party identification with Republicans is dropping). The Republican "brand" is increasingly toxic. It damn well hurt them in Virginia (where women broke for Northam more than 5% than they did for Clinton). They've got a pretty good chance of losing a Senate seat in ALABAMA, for goodness sakes. You can't call Trump an aberration when you're also refusing to denounce Roy Moore and letting sex offenders off the hook. That hurts you, both now, and much more in the future.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:31 AM on December 6, 2017 [24 favorites]


Not to abuse the edit window, here's a photo of what appears to be Flynn writing the text.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:31 AM on December 6, 2017 [37 favorites]


Called and thanked Senator Casey after seeing gladly's comment. It feels great to have one (1) senator representing me that I can actually be proud of.
posted by joyceanmachine at 10:32 AM on December 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Steve Bannon reported to the FBI for allegedly violating campaign finance laws (Sophia Tesfaye, Salon)
The Democratic Coalition Against Trump, a liberal grassroots organization, has filed a complaint with the FBI alleging that Bannon illegally coordinated Super PAC activities with the Trump campaign, and received payments from the Super PAC after Bannon became an official part of Trump's campaign this August.

Bannon joined the Trump campaign following the resignation of former campaign head Paul Manafort.

In short, a hidden donor allegedly paid a shell company for “services” to mask hidden payments to the Trump campaign or his staff.
Meanwhile....

@realDonaldTrump
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!
7:00 AM - 6 Dec 2017
posted by Room 641-A at 10:38 AM on December 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


In the short term, a declaration by the American government will be used as an excuse for violence in and against Israel and for quite a few nations to once again cut ties and (likely) scream for sanctions. While the US keeps its nose clean and utterly derails any hope we could have possibly had for the peace process. In the long term, Israel will try to leverage this into a way to grab all of a contested city that is currently considered an international site by the UN and "corpus separatum" by the EU.

Forward: Palestinians seethe at Trump's 'insane' Jerusalem move.

JPost: In a joint statement, the Palestinian "national and Islamic forces" announced three days of rage over Trump's decision on Jerusalem. Also, Turkey's Erdogan threatens cutting ties with Israel over Jerusalem issue.

Newsweek: Hamas Threatens New Intifada If Trump Recognizes Jerusalem As Israeli Capital

Forward: Evangelicals Led Drive To Name Jerusalem As Capital, AIPAC Stayed On Sidelines

The usual suspects are claiming that this won't derail the peace process.
posted by zarq at 10:40 AM on December 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


Ok, something is up and catching the eye of a lot of twitter. Start slightly before 10 minutes and let it play out to the end. The slurring progressively gets worse.

Sniffing and Slurring? Stimulants can give you a runny nose and a dry mouth.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:40 AM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


God blesh the Urnited Shturts
posted by The Notorious SRD at 10:42 AM on December 6, 2017 [44 favorites]


Re: the slurring, I just heard the end part of that speech on NPR and haven't seen video yet, But it sounded like he got an injection of Novocain that was suddenly kicking in??
posted by Ornate Rocksnail at 10:42 AM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


A new Harvard University poll Tuesday is blaring a loud danger signal to the Republican Party after finding that millennials are now the largest generation of voters and they are overwhelmingly Democratic, by a two-to-one margin.

This is totally unsurprising from my experiences working with college students in Texas. I think I've had at least one student leftist political outburst in each of my sections over the past year, and just to reiterate I teach genetics. Last semester those kids were college freshmen. (Also not surprising from, you know, the perspective of an actual millennial out in the workforce with friends broadly the sameish age as me, but there you have it.)

On Monday, the Grad Student Assembly abruptly announced a walkout over the tax bill scheduled for noon today. I'm... torn: our GSA is generally ineffectual as all hell, I don't want to damage relationships with my instructor of record when her desire to work with me could easily be what keeps me employed as I progress through my degree, and the specific provision under protest (the grad student tuition tax) is still under reconciliation. They're also not a union and will do jack fuck all to protect me if I face consequences over a walkout, and I feel vulnerable.

It's also the last week before finals, and my students will be fucked over if I walk today: there's no time for them to make up the lab, including an assessment worth about ten percent of their grade happening today. (Their final exam is a week from Saturday, I believe.)

I have decided to teach, but to explain to my students what is happening today, what I was asked to do, and what they think would happen if I acted in line with my interests over theirs as I would like to do. I'll report back what they say.
posted by sciatrix at 10:44 AM on December 6, 2017 [52 favorites]


WaPo, Republican officials say targeting welfare programs will help spur economic growth, in which they're not remotely bothering to hide the next phase of this plan, and all must suffer at the altar of economic growth:
“For us to achieve 3 percent GDP growth over the next 10 years from tax reform, we have to have welfare reform. We need people who are mentally and physically able to work to get into the workforce,” Rep. Rod Blum (R-Iowa) said. “In my district, a lot of employers can’t find employees ... Sometimes we need to force people to go to work.”

Other House Republicans similarly argued that there would be “no excuses” for poor Americans to need welfare once economic growth took hold. “Once we light this economy up, my brother, there’s going to be jobs for everybody. So there will be no excuses for anyone who can work to sit at home and not work,” Rep. Clay Higgins (R-La.) said. “If we pass tax reform, we have to have welfare reform. When you have a vibrant economy, there’s no reason for Americans to suffer on welfare.”
Warren and Leahy both calling on Franken to resign now, though Warren seems to have gone for the "do it privately and then have an aide leak that you did to literally everyone" approach. This does seem like everyone jumping on the train in advance of an announcement from him. Meanwhile, everyone seems to have moved on from Blake Farenthold .
posted by zachlipton at 10:45 AM on December 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


i mean, trump has long been slurring a bit or bumbling over words but this was unusual -- like, already-getting-reported-on levels of unusual (and yeah, i know, it's Metro, but it is a good roundup of the tweets about this). and it really did sound like a novocain shot, or like his tongue got thick and he was having some difficulty forming words; it was not just the sticky-dry-mouth type of slurring or the i'm-maybe-on-stimulants-and-talking-too-fast type of slurring.

it was weird as heck. and will probably reignite these types of alex jones rumblings.
posted by halation at 10:47 AM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


My conservative coworker, knowing I homeschool my kid, excitedly told me that the new tax bill would give me a 10k tax break for doing so. Does it? I mean, it's such a mess, how the fuck would I even know? But clearly that is one of the lines being pushed.

She didn't get why I wasn't excited, I basically said I felt like there were other things in the bill that were going to cause a lot of problems, but again, how can I be specific when the whole damn thing is semi-illusory, right up till the point it's not, which could be in five seconds or never?

argh
posted by emjaybee at 10:50 AM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


I am leaving for Pakistan in ten days. I have to say, the thought of our president riling up anti-American sentiment right before this trip is adding an extra edge of, er, excitement that I could really do without.
posted by Superplin at 10:50 AM on December 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


It sounded like a person whose denture or other dental apparatus came loose. Slur some words, push it back up there with your tongue, sound normal, it falls out again, slur some more words.
posted by penduluum at 10:50 AM on December 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


> The slurring progressively gets worse.

When I read this the first thing I thought was that "slurring" was being used in the "make damaging or insulting insinuations or allegations about" sense.

Gotta tip my cap to Pence. I haven't watched every second of that video, but it sure looks like he manages to go the full eleven and a half minutes without altering the expression on his face in any way, shape or form. A couple of times he nods slightly, and shifts a tiny bit from side to side. He looked like one of those CGIed versions of actors who get digitally inserted into movies when they die partway through filming.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:51 AM on December 6, 2017 [29 favorites]


Former high school teacher @Rep MarkTakano: "When @SenateMajLdr Mitch McConnell writes a deeply dishonest op-ed about the Senate GOP tax plan, there’s only one appropriate response: The red pen."

Glorious images of markup on Turtleboy's propaganda piece.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:54 AM on December 6, 2017 [43 favorites]


I hate that I just voluntarily watched more than 30 seconds of trump talking (something I've not subjected myself to in months). Mostly seemed par for the course for president mush-mouth, other than "God bless the unida stazzzeh" at the end, which seemed especially slurred. That's definitely going to play a big part in the next SNL cold open.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:55 AM on December 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


The ripping up welfare thing -- can they do that without getting fillibustered? Didn't they just use up their shot at doing stuff through reconciliation for this year, on taxes? Are they saying they want to do that next October? (Right before the 2018 elections?) Are they saying they want to do it AFTER the 2018 elections? Are they saying they want to posture and grandstand about it (hardly seems like a popular message to grandstand on!) and then let the Democrats fillibuster it after all? Or are they saying they will abolish the fillibuster?

(Or am I just not understanding how reconcilliation works, and they're actually allowed to pass another bill that way this year?)
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:56 AM on December 6, 2017


slur-ly this
posted by entropicamericana at 10:58 AM on December 6, 2017 [48 favorites]


Not sure whether there's much value in continued riffing/speculation about the slurring...?
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 11:00 AM on December 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


My conservative coworker, knowing I homeschool my kid, excitedly told me that the new tax bill would give me a 10k tax break for doing so. Does it? I mean, it's such a mess, how the fuck would I even know? But clearly that is one of the lines being pushed.

As I understand it, the Senate bill allows up to $10K/year from a 529 plan to be spent on private K-12 education expenses, including homeschooling (who the heck knows how that will be administered, sounds like a massive headache to actually track how the money is used). That doesn't mean there's a $10K tax break though, just that you can put money into the account and not have to pay taxes on the growth in value of the investments if you use it for school. Some states with income taxes will give you a deduction on your state taxes for 529 contributions.

There's a tax break here, though I think it's largely one of those things that sounds like a much bigger benefit than it actually is.

Of course, any of that may or may not make it into the final bill.
posted by zachlipton at 11:09 AM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


BRB, creating a Web Development MOOC "with a Christian focus" that costs exactly $10K/yr.
posted by rhizome at 11:12 AM on December 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


Could someone possibly explain, like I'm 5, why evangelicals and this Sheldon Adelson person care whether or not Jerusalem is the capital of Israel? I am reading what I can and trying very hard to understand this, but I don't get it (not American).
posted by kitcat at 11:15 AM on December 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Could someone possibly explain, like I'm 5, why evangelicals and this Sheldon Adelson person care whether or not Jerusalem is the capital of Israel?

In the case of evangelicals: it's to ensure that the world ends as described in the Bible, and soon.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:19 AM on December 6, 2017 [33 favorites]


Democratic Rep. Al Green says he will force House impeachment vote

Vote fails 364-58-4. That's 58 Democrats voting to advance impeachment, 62 voting against or present.
posted by zachlipton at 11:19 AM on December 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Could someone possibly explain, like I'm 5, why evangelicals and this Sheldon Adelson person care whether or not Jerusalem is the capital of Israel?

There is an evangelical belief that one of the things that will bring about Jesus Returning Again is that Israel, with Jerusalem as its capital city, will truly once again become a Jewish Kingdom. Jerusalem being declared the O-fficial Capital of Israel is a step in that process.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:21 AM on December 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


It's also the last week before finals, and my students will be fucked over if I walk today: there's no time for them to make up the lab, including an assessment worth about ten percent of their grade happening today.

I think you are doing the right thing
posted by thelonius at 11:22 AM on December 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


The third alternative is to insist that all allegations against Congresspeople of either party are investigated thoroughly with public hearings, instead of letting the perpetrator decide whether to quit or not. If Democrats just resign, how is that NOT unilateral disarmament? Republicans are still there, with no standards of decency at all.

We've seen how that goes with Anita Hill. This isn't a court of law, we don't need to pull the "innocent until proven guilty" card here, and we're not unilaterally disarming! We are removing predators and creeps from public office because they can't keep their damn hands and lips and other body parts to themselves. There are many qualified people who will ably replace Senator Franken and Rep Conyers without a history of groping and unwanted sexual contact.

If we don't demand Franken and other abusers step down, then we tell women they shouldn't come forward, that their accusations will be ignored and the risks they take are too high.

If the concern is ratfucking, I think we can be confident that baseless claims and fabrications will be outed as such pretty quickly and easily. With Franken, there is photographic evidence and his admission. With Conyers, there's a raft of confirmatory acknowledgement by aides, reporters, and so on.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:30 AM on December 6, 2017 [22 favorites]


Bob Casey (D-PA), my senator, is the first male senator I've seen join the call.

Prior to Trump, I'd always thought of Pennsylvania's split Senate caucus as both kind of dishwater, but this presidency has really revealed some hidden depths. In Toomey's case, hidden depths of awfulness, but in Casey's a new willingness to put himself out there for the side of good.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:31 AM on December 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


Jerusalem being declared the O-fficial Capital of Israel is a step in that process.

Right, but most Israelites already consider Jerusalem the capital (that's where the Knesset is!)

I'm not sure why they think G-d is particularly concerned with the diplomatic recognition by foreign states of Israel's capital, unless he's much more into international diplomacy than I've been lead to believe.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:32 AM on December 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


Many evangelicals believe that there are a set of things which have to happen before the return of Christ and the end of the world. The particular things vary depending on which school of interpretation of the prophetic parts of Scripture one follows.

[For myself, I do believe in the Second Coming, as do most Christians -- but I'm not particularly interested in trying to parse out a projected timeline. In the Gospels, Jesus makes it pretty clear that the point is not to try to determine when things will happen but to be prepared for his return at any time by caring for others and generally not being a shithead.]

But going back 150 years or so, a lot of evangelicals have decided to interpret some very poetic passages as corresponding to very particular things. Relevant to this thread, one thing that happens is that the Jews return to Israel and defeat all the surrounding nations.

So that's a big part of evangelical support for the State of Israel and why they don't particularly care about the consequences of something like US support for Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. In their view, the war(s) to come are (maybe regrettable but) inevitable, literally written in prophecy, and will only hasten the coming of Christ.

I found this site which gives a pretty standard overview of what some 30-40 million Americans believe is *going* to happen in the near future.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:35 AM on December 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


There is an evangelical belief...

Yeah, but there's also something about Israel which appeals to nationalists, in the sense that Doug Muder writes about. "ethnicity, language, religion, and/or shared history — give a population a common identity as 'a people'." For nationalists, being a "real" part of the nation "means far more than simply living inside the boundaries."

I think a lot of nationalists like the idea of a Jewish state just because they think every ethnic/religious group should have its own nation. Muder does a better job than I would of considering the implications of that worldview and the arguments for and against it. I think Israel is a case where even cosmopolitan liberals can see the advantages of having a homeland for a specific religious/ethnic group.

It's a strange paradox that nationalists around the world are backing each other's plays right now. A kind of international nationalism.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:36 AM on December 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


Latest word is Franken will make an announcement tomorrow. Story is changing very quickly now.

It's a planned, staged event. Franken's setting himself up as the piñata so everybody can get
on the record saying he should resign, then tomorrow he resigns. Makes the most of a horrible necessity.
posted by scalefree at 11:37 AM on December 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


(not abusing edit window, but I do want to say that the linked texts scattered throughout that site's timeline mostly are not saying anything like what they are being made to say -- it's like cutting words for a ransom note out of the newspaper and then trying to use the note to argue that the New York Times is in favor of kidnapping.)
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:38 AM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


In Toomey's case, hidden depths of awfulness, but in Casey's a new willingness to put himself out there for the side of good.

Agree with this 100%. I try to hit both of them with ResistBot every day. Toomey never stops supplying reasons to call him out, but Casey has done a great job of giving me things to thank him for as well as things to ask him for. I actually sent him another request to call for Franken's resignation just a few hours before his tweet, and a thank you immediately thereafter.
posted by SpiffyRob at 11:41 AM on December 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


I think a lot of nationalists like the idea of a Jewish state just because they think every ethnic/religious group should have its own nation.

I sense that this group doesn't feel the same way about, say, African-Americans in the Black Belt.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:42 AM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Right, but most Israelites already consider Jerusalem the capital (that's where the Knesset is!)

I obviously meant Israelis here, the Israelites have been dead for a while.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:43 AM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


There are hundreds of pro-net neutrality protests set for Verizon stores tomorrow. Come out!

It's a planned, staged event. Franken's setting himself up as the piñata

I initially believed that, though 2020 possibles Sanders and Booker both refusing to say anything when asked about Franken today (indeed, Sanders didn't acknowledge the question and fled to the subway) gives me pause on the theory this is all kayfabe.
posted by zachlipton at 11:44 AM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Jerusalem is considered the holiest city to religious Jews. It is also the place where the Holy Temple was built, and where the Western Wall now remains.

The Temple and Jerusalem are mentioned rather extensively in Orthodox Jewish prayers, including in the Amidah, which is a core daily prayer. Reform, Conservative and Orthodox Jews all recite some version of the Amidah, either daily or on the Sabbath. Conservative Judaism also includes mention of the Temple and Jerusalem in prayers, psalms and songs. Many of those prayers include the hope of rebuilding of the Temple as place of worship. In addition, four fast days are based around either the destruction of the Temple or the events that led up to its destruction. All Jewish religious sects include mention of Jerusalem and the rebuilding of the Temple in their special holiday prayers. On Yom Kippur especially.

In addition, the story of King David is described in the Torah (Samuel and Psalms.) He fought to capture Jerusalem and build the Holy Temple in ancient times.
posted by zarq at 11:45 AM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


The ripping up welfare thing -- can they do that without getting fillibustered? Didn't they just use up their shot at doing stuff through reconciliation for this year, on taxes?

Congress can do one reconciliation bill per budget year. They got two in 2017 because they delayed the 2017 budget until after Trump was elected and then started on the 2018 budget resolution (with the tax cut reconciliation instructions) in November.

The 2019 budget resolution with another reconciliation instruction will likely be coming down the pike about 10 minutes after the ink is dry on the votes in the House and Senate for the conference version of the tax cut bill.
posted by zrail at 11:45 AM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


I think a lot of nationalists like the idea of a Jewish state just because they think every ethnic/religious group should have its own nation.

I sense that this group doesn't feel the same way about, say, African-Americans in the Black Belt.

Oh, I think they probably do African-Americans should have their own nation; they just think it should be in Africa. The better question is, shouldn't they get the hell out the United States and leave it to the Native Americans?
posted by leotrotsky at 11:46 AM on December 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


Er, late-breaking update to that comment. Booker now called on Franken to resign.
posted by zachlipton at 11:47 AM on December 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


In the Gospels, Jesus makes it pretty clear that the point is not to try to determine when things will happen but to be prepared for his return at any time by caring for others and generally not being a shithead.

And, as a similarly believing Christian, I kinda always thought the point of prophecy was not, uh, "this is what will happen, go make it so". Maybe I need to go back and reread how various prophecies play out, but like the thing with Jesus born in Bethlehem was not because Mary knew she was giving birth to Him and so figured she better go deliver the baby where the prophecy said, it just happened that way because of circumstance and then was a verification of sorts.

It's like these people never read ancient Greek tragedies before. Forcing a prophecy just seems like asking things to end poorly, you know?

(and what does a god need with a starship prophecy-implementer anyway?)
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 11:47 AM on December 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


I'm not sure why they think G-d is particularly concerned with the diplomatic recognition by foreign states of Israel's capital, unless he's much more into international diplomacy than I've been lead to believe.

The concern is that it will be taken away from them by those foreign states.
posted by zarq at 11:47 AM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


The better question is, shouldn't they get the hell out the United States and leave it to the Native Americans?

Of course not, because might makes right and whites are superior and won't apologize for creating the modern world

Fuck these turds, they don't have a logical basis for the garbage they spew; they just think that claiming everyone should have an ethnostate gives them some sort of intellectual cover for calling for ethnic cleansing here. Oh no, we're not advocating for killing off minorities! We just want them to go over there, where their country is.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:49 AM on December 6, 2017 [14 favorites]


There are many qualified people who will ably replace Senator Franken and Rep Conyers without a history of groping and unwanted sexual contact.

This is true in both of their cases. These two are easy. Lose a competent liberal, replace with competent liberal.

What happens when it's a Democratic Senator in a battleground or red state? Will the calls to step down be just as loud?
posted by gurple at 11:50 AM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Another shoe drops. Tina Dupuy, I Believe Franken’s Accusers Because He Groped Me, Too.
posted by zachlipton at 11:55 AM on December 6, 2017 [24 favorites]


What happens when it's a Democratic Senator in a battleground state? Will the calls to step down be just as loud?

Or a red state. Joe Donnelly or Joe Manchin, for example. Lets be clear, I have absolutely no reason to believe they have engaged in any bad behavior of this kind. But what if there were allegations against one of them? The governors of those states are Republcans and the states are quite red, particularly West Virginia. Were one of them to resign its quite possible those Senate seats would be lost for a generation. The WV seat might be lost more or less permanently.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do the right thing but doing the right thing in Conyers and Franken's cases is easy.

(But of course doing the right thing in Moore's case should also be easy. Even were Jones to win he'd likely be replaced by a Republican at the first opportunity. It should be a no brainer.)
posted by Justinian at 11:55 AM on December 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


There are many qualified people who will ably replace Senator Franken and Rep Conyers without a history of groping and unwanted sexual contact.

Speak of the (literal) devil:
Alex Bolton [via Twitter]: Former Sen. Norm Coleman (R-Minn.), spotted in the Capitol, won’t rule out running for Franken’s seat: “You never say never.”
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:55 AM on December 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Mod note: Couple deleted; let's stop trying to lay out the rationale of racist nationalists; I get that people here aren't endorsing it but still.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:56 AM on December 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


... but in Casey's a new willingness to put himself out there for the side of good.

I hear and read lots of people who say "Why should I call Toomey? He's never going to change his opinion." I think this is the answer. Dems are emboldened by the pressure being put on Republicans. Casey was never this loud before this year. I like to think that by going and protesting in front of Toomey's Philly office every Tuesday, I'm letting Casey know that I've got his back (and I sure as hell will be in front of his office if he doesn't do the right thing).
posted by mcduff at 11:57 AM on December 6, 2017 [20 favorites]


SPOILER: We will not be able to hound Republicans who commit the same offenses out of office.

It's a deeply asymetrical situation where the other side is completely unbound by priciples or any need to not seem hypocrytical.

That said, it's worth hounding our harassers out of office anyway, so we don't have a bunch of harassers in office.
posted by Artw at 11:58 AM on December 6, 2017 [59 favorites]


SPOILER: We will not be able to hound Republicans who commit the same offenses out of office.

We can sure bog them down in ethics investigations in the face of credible accusations, damage them politically, and make them vulnerable.

In any case, that's dealing with hypotheticals. Franken resigning now is good for the country, good for Democrats,
and good for Doug Jones' chances in Alabama. Let's take the win.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:00 PM on December 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


Theory: The move by so many Senators to call for Franken's resignation, including Mitch McConnell, is a coordinated way to lay the framework for getting rid of Moore if he wins. Franken sets the precedent, Moore gets the boot.

It's also the right thing to do. But it can be both.

McConnell did not have to say anything. It's obvious that Franken is done. So why else would he speak up if not to help set the precedent in the not unlikely case of Moore being elected? It's the only way I can make sense of this since "doing the right thing" is obviously not the reason Mitch put out the statement.
posted by Justinian at 12:03 PM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


So why else would he speak up if not to help set the precedent in the not unlikely case of Moore being elected? It's the only way I can make sense of this since "doing the right thing" is obviously not the reason Mitch put out the statement.

Steve Kornacki: The key here is McConnell's claim that Franken has lost support "of his constituents." Sets him up to declare a distinction between Moore and Franken if Moore wins next week.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:05 PM on December 6, 2017 [14 favorites]


So why else would he speak up if not to help set the precedent in the not unlikely case of Moore being elected? It's the only way I can make sense of this since "doing the right thing" is obviously not the reason Mitch put out the statement.

He's taking a whack at the piñata while he still can.
posted by scalefree at 12:09 PM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Sanders now calling on Franken to resign. I've got to assume this is happening by tomorrow at this point.
posted by zachlipton at 12:12 PM on December 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Dave Orrick, St Paul Pioneer Press: Here’s what happens if Al Franken resigns

Appointed replacement now; election for remaining 2 years of Franken's current term ending in 2018; election for normal length term in 2020.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:15 PM on December 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Another shoe drops. Tina Dupuy, I Believe Franken’s Accusers Because He Groped Me, Too.

2009, Media Matters party during Obama's first inauguration.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:18 PM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Schiff on Erik Prince's testimony sounds really bad.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 12:20 PM on December 6, 2017


Appointed replacement now; election for remaining 2 years of Franken's current term ending in 2018; election for normal length term in 2020.

One more seat for the Dems to defend in 2018.
posted by asteria at 12:21 PM on December 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Here's the full transcript on Prince's testimony (105 page PDF). He showed up without a lawyer. It just came out and people are starting to dig into it, but Schiff highlighted how Prince said "he learned from campaign chief executive and transition chief strategist Steve Bannon about a secret December 2016 meeting in New York City between Trump transition and UAE officials" and "admitted to meeting with Kirill Dmitriev, the head of the Russian Direct Investment Fund..& testified that Dmitriev noted that he wished for trade between the United States and Russia to resume in a 'normal way.'" Though he insisted his meeting with Dmitriev, which has been previously reported, had nothing to do with the transition.

Chris Geidner is starting a thread working his way through the transcript if you want developing highlights.
posted by zachlipton at 12:27 PM on December 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


Bernie, I think you got the ratio backwards.

VICE (Eve Peyser) - A Weekend with Bernie
"It is clear that there is an element of Trump supporters who are racists, sexists, homophobes, and there’s nothing I’m going to say that’s going to appeal to them," he said. "But I think that the vast majority of Trump supporters are people who are in pain, who are struggling economically, who are worried to death that their kids are going to be in even worse shape economically than they are, and they turned to Trump because Trump said things that made sense. He said he was going to take on the establishment, and he was going to provide healthcare to everybody. You know what, it’s pretty much what I said."
posted by chris24 at 12:29 PM on December 6, 2017 [14 favorites]


Just checked. Walter Mondale is still alive and kicking.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:39 PM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Mod note: Couple deleted. If you're a dude and you're inclined to say something like "I don't want to be that guy but maybe this accusation of sexual harassment was actually a misunderstanding by the woman because in my experience as a dude...", you should pause and reconsider.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:39 PM on December 6, 2017 [79 favorites]


I have lost track of the tweet, or who it was from, but I'm going to paraphrase it here: Basically, if Don Jr. doesn't admit to colluding with various Russians (with whatever facts have come to light about it) he'll be guilty of lying to Congress. As in, either way he is fucked.

Does this sound right to people?
posted by Room 641-A at 12:39 PM on December 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Room, yeah, and he's tossing Hope Hicks in front of the grenades meant for him, apparently.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 12:41 PM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Does this sound right to people?

Can't remember where I read it, but in regard to the Trump/rightwing talking point that Clinton lied to the FBI and got away with it (false, but...), someone said that the FBI generally doesn't prosecute someone for proclaiming their innocence, general denials, etc., even if they turn out to be guilty. Now if you lie about specific things and actions and conversations, that's a different story.

And obviously you were asking about Congress, but I'd assume it would be similar.
posted by chris24 at 12:44 PM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Wait, is Sanders trying to make the argument that the way forward is to win back Trump voters, rather than build and motivate the base on the left?

Has he not been paying attention?
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:50 PM on December 6, 2017 [49 favorites]


SPOILER: We will not be able to hound Republicans who commit the same offenses out of office.

It's a deeply asymetrical situation where the other side is completely unbound by priciples or any need to not seem hypocrytical.

do the means justify the end, or are the means themselves the end? Call me naive but I find I've come to ascribe to the latter for the most part. That is, I don't think it weakens "our side" in the long game if we deal with our various rots and poisons NOW. Or put otherwise -- what exactly is different about "our side" if it turns a blind eye to the same shit THEY are?
posted by philip-random at 12:52 PM on December 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


Just checked. Walter Mondale is still alive and kicking.

Because making new sequels to old franchises is all the rage now: Carter/Mondale 2020!
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:53 PM on December 6, 2017 [20 favorites]


zachlipton: Vote fails 364-58-4. That's 58 Democrats voting to advance impeachment, 62 voting against or present.

Long story short: Dems agreed that Rep. Green is jumping the gun
In a joint statement issued shortly after Green introduced his impeachment articles on the House floor, Pelosi and Hoyer rejected Green's argument.

"Legitimate questions have been raised about [Trump's] fitness to lead this nation," they wrote, but added that "right now, Congressional committees continue to be deeply engaged in investigations into the President's actions both before and after his inauguration. The special counsel's investigation is moving forward as well, and those inquiries should be allowed to continue. Now is not the time to consider articles of impeachment."

Green argued that regardless of the various investigations' findings, Trump's actions and statements have already met the political bar for removal from office. "Impeachment is a political remedy, not a judicial remedy, thus it may be a high misdemeanor, which may or may not be a crime," he wrote.
NPR included a summary from Rep. Green's office of the articles he introduced.

While I agree with Rep. Green, I also see this as pulling the rug out of the five different ongoing investigations (A guide to every Russia investigation happening right now, by Kyle Kim and Priya Krishnakumar for L.A. Times, initially published on May 30, 2017, then updated on June 14, 2017). If the House Intel committee rolls over and say "nothing to see here" as Democrats say their Republican colleagues are trying to thwart the Russia investigation by refusing to issue or enforce subpoenas for documents that could prove whether witnesses are lying (Erin Kelly for USA Today, Nov. 10, 2017), there are still three other committees and Mueller's special council.

All that said, I'm happy that the rebuttal was "too soon" and not "this isn't credible," which gives more weight to a future impeachment process. Whether it's in 2018 later, time will tell.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:56 PM on December 6, 2017 [21 favorites]


Just out of curiosity, how many times did the Republicans try to advance impeachment on W.J. Clinton before they succeeded?
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:00 PM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Hey, the search function works! This has only been posted once, back in September:

The Committee To Investigate Russia has a great roundup of Russia stuff.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:00 PM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Green argued that regardless of the various investigations' findings, Trump's actions and statements have already met the political bar for removal from office.

Politics is the art of the possible. Green knew impeachment was impossible and by pushing this has on record that the House in bipartisan fashion does not feel Trump should be impeached. I think this makes future votes more difficult to justify and it was a mistake to push this. I'm not what this professional politician was thinking.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:01 PM on December 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Green argued that regardless of the various investigations' findings, Trump's actions and statements have already met the political bar for removal from office. "Impeachment is a political remedy, not a judicial remedy, thus it may be a high misdemeanor, which may or may not be a crime," he wrote.

I agree with this -- he's admitted to obstructing justice twice, for Pete's sake -- but I also agree with Pelosi and Hoyer that, pragmatically, we only get one shot at this. Better to wait for all the bullets to be loaded, as it were.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:01 PM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Basically, if Don Jr. doesn't admit to colluding with various Russians (with whatever facts have come to light about it) he'll be guilty of lying to Congress.

The Russians seem to be saying that of course they came along to lobby the Trump team on sanctions, they felt very strongly about them, but they were never ready to assist with electorally-sensitive information, that idea must have come from this other unrelated guy that scamp.

So Don Jr is going to remain vulnerable to charges of collusion if anybody – like the Russians – reveals evidence that he got what he paid for, but until then he's going to argue that he was virtuously seeking evidence of wrongdoing on the part of Hillary Clinton, but the Russians kept talking about adopting kids for some reason.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:03 PM on December 6, 2017


It sounded like a person whose denture or other dental apparatus came loose. Slur some words, push it back up there with your tongue, sound normal, it falls out again, slur some more words.

Yeah it's clearly dentures. He keeps wrestling with them then at the last two words ("United States") they almost pop out of his mouth.
posted by scalefree at 1:07 PM on December 6, 2017 [26 favorites]


Didn't we have this entire process (link to someone introducing impeachment proceedings, rejection, discussion) a few threads ago, perhaps more than once?
posted by Melismata at 1:08 PM on December 6, 2017


You talk as if we're not all currently living inside of that David Hasselhoff eternal recursion GIF.
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:11 PM on December 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


Um, Norm Coleman already ran for Franken’s seat against Franken, and he lost. He spent all his money on the recount and practically bankrupted himself. (Or actually did, I can’t remember.) Nobody likes you, Norm! Sit your ass down.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:18 PM on December 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Did somebody call for a recursive DH gif? (for those not familiar with the mind-bending eternity)

Anyway, I think the news is that it went to a vote, because last time, Rep. Al Green (D-Tex.) stopped just short of forcing a House vote on President Trump’s impeachment Wednesday, pulling back under apparent pressure from his own party (Mike DeBonis for Washington Post, Oct. 11, 2017).
posted by filthy light thief at 1:18 PM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


SPOILER: We will not be able to hound Republicans who commit the same offenses out of office.

It's a deeply asymetrical situation where the other side is completely unbound by priciples or any need to not seem hypocrytical.

Slate's Dahlia Lithwick: The Uneven Playing Field "Sure, don’t stoop to their level. But let’s acknowledge that the game Republicans are forcing everyone to play insists morality is for losers."
Al Franken, many argue, should now resign. He should resign immediately because there are credible accusers (another emerged Wednesday), and because the behavior alleged is sufficiently abhorrent that there is simply no basis to defend him. In this parade of unilateral disarmament, Trump stays, Conyers goes, Moore stays, Franken goes.

Is this the principled solution? By every metric I can think of, it’s correct. But it’s also wrong. It’s wrong because we no longer inhabit a closed ethical system, in which morality and norm preservation are their own rewards. We live in a broken and corroded system in which unilateral disarmament is going to destroy the very things we want to preserve.[...]

My own larger concern is that becoming the party of high morality will allow Democrats to live with themselves but that the party is also self-neutering in the face of unprecedented threats, in part to do the right thing and in part to take ammunition away from the right—a maneuver that never seems to work out these days.[...]

This isn’t a call to become tolerant of awful behavior. It is a call for understanding that Democrats honored the blue slip, and Republicans didn’t. Democrats had hearings over the Affordable Care Act; Republicans had none over the tax bill. Democrats decry predators in the media; Republicans give them their own networks. And what do Democrats have to show for it? There is something almost eerily self-regarding in the notion that the only thing that matters is what Democrats do, without considering what the systemic consequences are for everyone.
Just as she argues that Mueller and Trump operate in entirely different Americas, with their own versions of law, morality, and politics, so too do the Republican and Democratic parties.
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:23 PM on December 6, 2017 [43 favorites]


@dwallacewells
NBC news in LA is reporting that the wildfires are now burning down Rupert Murdoch's house.


@existentialfish (MMFA)
John Whitehouse Retweeted David Wallace-Wells
siri show me a metaphor for fox news climate denial
posted by chris24 at 1:23 PM on December 6, 2017 [97 favorites]


Doktor Zed: Just as she argues that Mueller and Trump operate in entirely different Americas, with their own versions of law, morality, and politics

My birthday wish (late December b-day, woot!) is that Trump's America becomes Mueller's.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:26 PM on December 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm a big fan of "every time a new overt act is discovered, update articles of impeachment and re-vote"

EVENTUALLY it's gonna stick ( unlike Benghazi ) If nothing else, we get a nice line graph of # of reps voting aye / time.
posted by mikelieman at 1:26 PM on December 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


Mod note: California fire post here
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:31 PM on December 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Women are moving strongly towards the Democratic party. I think taking harassment by politicians seriously will only accelerate that.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:37 PM on December 6, 2017 [54 favorites]


NBC news in LA is reporting that the wildfires are now burning down Rupert Murdoch's house.

I get it, but please let's not do this today.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:41 PM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


"But I think that the vast majority of Trump supporters are (WHITE) people who are in pain, who are struggling economically, who are worried to death that their kids are going to be in even worse shape economically than they are, and they turned to Trump because Trump said things that made sense.

Fixed that quote because ugh, I've heard this sentiment a million times, and without it it reads as if POC do not have all these problems. Of course they do and yet they overwhelmingly didn't vote for Trump. So stop saying it's "people", Bernie and everyone else!
posted by nakedmolerats at 1:42 PM on December 6, 2017 [51 favorites]



Women are moving strongly towards the Democratic party. I think taking harassment by politicians seriously will only accelerate that.

Yes, this. Women are already running for office as Democrats in record numbers because they are angry about Trump (among others) getting elected despite bragging about sexual assault. So I agree the Democrats need to keep their noses squeaky clean in this regard. We're the party who welcomes women? Great! We need to back that up with deeds, not just boasts.

The more the Democratic party makes it clear that we are a big tent - women, LGBT people, all races, ages and creeds - and backs that up with respect for everyone in this tent, the better off we will be.

If we don't believe women and act on those beliefs, we'll lose our momentum.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:47 PM on December 6, 2017 [63 favorites]


scaryblackdeath: Politico: Russia barred from 2018 Winter Olympics due to doping.

Russia Won't Boycott Olympics Over Ban For Doping, Putin Says (NPR, Nov. 6, 2017)
The ban was imposed on Tuesday; one day later, Russian President Vladimir Putin said he wouldn't stand in any athlete's way if they choose to compete as neutral Olympians. When it banned Russian officials from the upcoming games, the IOC said a path remained for some of Russia's athletes to compete in the 2018 Olympics in Pyeongchang, South Korea.

"Without any doubt, we will not declare any blockade, we will not prevent our Olympians from taking part [in the games], if one of them wants to take part in a personal capacity," Putin said in comments relayed by the Russian Olympic Committee and translated by Google Translate.
Emphasis mine -- have you no Russian speakers on staff you can call upon to quickly translate something? Come on!
The IOC is ordering Russia's athletes to show they are clean of any doping. If they go to Pyeongchang, they'll compete under the Olympic flag; if they win medals, their country's anthem won't be played.

"I've seen all sorts of reaction from athletes," NPR's Lucian Kim says from Moscow. "Some say, 'Yes, we've worked so hard. We should definitely participate, even under a neutral flag.' And others say, 'Under no circumstances — it's humiliating for our country and we can only compete under a Russian flag.' "
...
Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova [said] Wednesday that the punishment of Russia's Olympic program was an attempt to isolate and weaken Russia, saying its critics had resorted to "Plan B," after the country hosted the Sochi Olympics.

"Throughout history, there were so many things we had to endure from our 'partners,' " Zakharova said. "But time and again, they failed to take us down, be it in a world war, with the dissolution of the Soviet Union, or sanctions ... We survived, time and time again."

After discussing Russia's "revival as a sports powerhouse," she said, "We constantly hear that we are doing everything wrong, be it our lifestyle, culture, history, and now sports."

The ministry issued Zakharova's words (Facebook) along with a slogan that spread on social media Tuesday: "No Russia No Games."
Back to the more topical topic of more women entering politics, particularly in the Democratic party:

'Women are pissed': Trump protest turns to action – and surge in female candidates -- In the presidential race, some women stayed at home because they didn’t want to vote against their husbands. Now they have had enough. (Tom McCarthy in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, for The Guardian, Nov. 24, 2017)

Similar but different: This Scientist Wants to Bring 'Star Trek' Values to Congress -- in part because Jess Phoenix is a vulcanologist, and she's embraced the generally mis-placed Star Trek reference she hears. She studies volcanoes, not Vulcans, but she has support the of Star Trek actors like Tim Russ, Robert Picardo, and John Billingsley, all of whom have appeared in her campaign videos.
“John saw the correlation between my positions about issues and the Star Trek universe,” Phoenix says, “and how the ideals of Gene Roddenberry’s future matched up with what I wanted to fight for.”

She says that as a vulcanologist, Star Trek references are a fact of life, since pretty much everyone she meets makes a joke about her studying Vulcans. Her standard response is to give the Vulcan salute and say “live long and prosper.”
She's in the running for CA-25, where there are 6 Dems listed as candidates now against the incumbent Stephen Knight (R).
posted by filthy light thief at 1:48 PM on December 6, 2017 [22 favorites]


This is an immensely satisfying essay: The Cool Kids' Philosopher (Nathan J. Robinson, Current Affairs).
It's easy to laugh, as some of us do, at the phrase “conservative intellectual.” When the most prominent public spokesmen for the right’s ideas include Milo Yiannopoulos, Charles Murray, and Dinesh D’Souza, one might conclude that the movement does not have anything serious to offer beyond “Feminism is cancer,” “Black people are dumb,” and “Democrats are Nazis.” (Those are, as I understand it, the central intellectual contributions of Yiannopoulos, Murray, and D’Souza, respectively.)

But according to the New York Times, it would be a mistake to write off Conservative Thought so hastily. For we would be overlooking one crucial figure: Ben Shapiro. Shapiro, we are told, is “the cool kid’s philosopher, dissecting arguments with a lawyer’s skill and references to Aristotle.” The Times quotes praise of Shapiro as a “brilliant polemicist” and “principled gladiator,” a quick-witted man who “reads books,” and “takes apart arguments in ways that make the conservative conclusion seem utterly logical.” Shapiro is the “destroyer of weak arguments,” he “has been called the voice of the conservative millennial movement.” He is a genuine intellectual, a man who “does not attack unfairly, stoke anger for the sake of it, or mischaracterize his opponents’ positions.” He is principled: he deplores Trump, and cares about Truth. Shapiro’s personal mantra, “Facts don’t care about your feelings,” captures his approach: he’s passionate, but he believes in following reason rather than emotion. Shapiro, then, represents the best in contemporary conservative thinking. And if the cool kids have a philosopher, it is worth examining his philosophy in some depth.
(It also stiffened my resolve to not subscribe to the NYT)
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:55 PM on December 6, 2017 [37 favorites]


Don Jr. has been with the House Intelligence Committee for seven hours and counting now, in case that image improves your mental state or you'd like to imagine what it's doing to the President's.
posted by zachlipton at 1:58 PM on December 6, 2017 [83 favorites]


The Dems would be smart to kick out abusers and have women take their places if they want to really be the party for all Americans.

“In 2017, 105 (78D, 27R) women hold seats in the United States Congress, comprising 19.6% of the 535 members; 21 women (21%) serve in the United States Senate, and 84 women (19.3%) serve in the United States House of Representatives. Five women delegates (3D, 2R) also represent American Samoa, the District of Columbia, Guam, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands in the United States House of Representatives.” Source.

The Republicans are firmly established as the party of pedophiles, KKK members, Nazis, rapists, criminals of all sorts, and traitors to the country. The Democrats should set an example for who we are as a country and make it stick. We aren’t scumbags.
posted by gucci mane at 1:59 PM on December 6, 2017 [20 favorites]


could we PLEASE place a trigger warning on :
The GOP for Doug Jones movement is real, above?


as a person who spent 3 months on a hospital ward as a result of extreme sexual violence, at the age of 13, finding out how this victim was so appallingly injured was horrific. I genuinely wasn't expecting to read that and I know it will take time to work on the horror.

what is evident is so many of us have stories that are so extreme, they buck certain trends, i.e. much of what has come out seems to have a pattern of behavior that the sheer volume of stories tips non-believers over the edge into belief. I look at the Al Franken claims and these stories are uttley coherent and describe a pattern of behaviour that some people simply find to be 'not as awful' as some of the others.

unfortunately for those of us whose experience is the result of something more extreme or violent, there's a large amount of cognitive dissonance, utter disbelief that anyone could be so inhuman, which means it is so much harder to be believed. Despite the evidence, my family for example tried to convince me when I came out of the coma that I had been in an extreme car accident and was lucky to be alive, that was better than the shame of their failure to protect their child.

we really need to value what people are telling us, particularly when for the VAST majority of victims, this HURTS and gains us nothing in the telling except more trauma and disbelief. We relieve it constantly in the hope that someone else will be spared.
posted by Wilder at 2:02 PM on December 6, 2017 [43 favorites]


Minnesota Public Radio: Franken is resigning
posted by stopgap at 2:04 PM on December 6, 2017 [28 favorites]


Former TN gov Bredesen is in for the race for Corker's seat.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:05 PM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Mod note: Added a warning to that link, wow. Dudes, if you link something with a graphic sexual assault in it, give people a heads-up.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:11 PM on December 6, 2017 [33 favorites]


Er, um....

Sen. Al Franken [via Twitter]: Not accurate, @mpr @Stowydad. No final decision has been made and the Senator is still talking with his family. Please update your story.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:24 PM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


What I see as the load-bearing sentence in Dahlia Lithwick's Slate pitch is this: The Senate, I would submit, is not about to be blown up and created anew, with greater institutional solicitude for women.

I fundamentally disagree. If you believe there's any chance of Trump being kicked out, then you believe something truly unprecedented (no president has ever been actually removed from office) could happen. (To put it another way, if old institutions never change, then Trump is going to stay until at least 2021.) Likewise here.

Precedent sticks around, for generations... until it doesn't. Conservatives twisted the Party of Abe Lincoln into what it is today. Progressives absolutely can untwist Congress into something at least a little more decent. Or, relatedly, what Chrysostom said about women entering and remaking the Democratic Party.

I also think there's a crucial distinction between two kinds of "going low". There are actions like skipping procedural steps to enact your policies, or using harsh language to make your case. Then there's tolerating sexual assault and similar crimes. At best, that's opportunistic, not tactical. There are some tactics that give certain moderates the vapors, like calling your opponents scum (even if they are scum), and then there are actions that result in genuine pain to innocent people. Democrats have to be willing to "sacrifice" decorum (or "go low"), but never use human beings as a means to an end.

Whether it moves the needle one way or the other on Moore is an interesting question, but irrelevant to whether or not it should be done. "So I hate taking out the trash at my house, but I was doing it the other day and --" "You think that'll force Alabama and/or the Senate to get tough on Moore? They'll just eat the moral hypocrisy and move on! You're Charlie Brown and they're Lucy with the football..."
posted by InTheYear2017 at 2:24 PM on December 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


Jeff Stein, WaPo: Ryan says Republicans to target welfare, Medicare, Medicaid spending in 2018
House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) said Wednesday that congressional Republicans will aim next year to reduce spending on both federal health care and anti-poverty programs, citing the need to reduce America's deficit.

“We're going to have to get back next year at entitlement reform, which is how you tackle the debt and the deficit,” Ryan said during an appearance on Ross Kaminsky's talk radio show. "... Frankly, it's the health care entitlements that are the big drivers of our debt, so we spend more time on the health care entitlements — because that's really where the problem lies, fiscally speaking.”
YOU FUCKERS ARE TRYING TO INCREASE THE DEFICIT BY A TRILLION DOLLARS YOU SHAMELESS PIECE OF SHIT
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:24 PM on December 6, 2017 [122 favorites]


This is their strategy, laid bare. Tax giveaway to the richest 0.1%, leading to an explosion in the deficit and national debt that is used as an excuse for austerity and slashing of the social safety net. It's bald, brazen, and needs to be shouted from the rooftops from now to 2018.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:30 PM on December 6, 2017 [79 favorites]


> YOU FUCKERS ARE TRYING TO INCREASE THE DEFICIT BY A TRILLION DOLLARS YOU SHAMELESS PIECE OF SHIT

There is not enough screaming in the world for this. They haven't even FINISHED legislating a trillion dollars in new debt, and they have the chutzpah to complain about debt already.

Seriously, if you're worried about our exploding debt burden, I have a great idea that will SAVE 1.4 TRILLION DOLLARS - just vote no on the tax cutcutcut.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:33 PM on December 6, 2017 [35 favorites]


Ryan is not a bright guy.
posted by Melismata at 2:33 PM on December 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


Quick, quick comment before Franken or Junior news overwhelms this thread:

In the presidential race, some women stayed at home because they didn’t want to vote against their husbands. Now they have had enough.

Last week I did some constituent calling (to get people to call Senators re: the tax scam bill). In just a limited number of phone calls, I had at least two women - who I was calling because *their* name was on a list - tell me, "You'll have to talk to my husband."

I sat there thinking, "What century are we in?"

Also, as an example of how varied and numerous are the issues to fight for, I'll be doing some GOTV work this week to support Doug Jones. But at the same time, I didn't feel I had the emotional resources to be an activist for an individual cause I've always supported, gun control. And today the US House passed a law to allow loaded concealed weapons ANYWHERE in every state.
posted by NorthernLite at 2:34 PM on December 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


In just a limited number of phone calls, I had at least two women - who I was calling because *their* name was on a list - tell me, "You'll have to talk to my husband."

What state was this?
posted by Justinian at 2:36 PM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


From Politico's Kushner bets he can have it both ways on Jerusalem move:
“I think [Trump] and Jared figure that after all the posturing and a few days of riots, things go back to normal when it comes to the negotiations,” said a person close to the administration.
This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard, yet, frankly, I'm not entirely convinced it isn't true. Nothing about this changes any of the parties' situations or positions; the impediments to peace are largely the same today as they were yesterday. Unless, you know, people get killed, which there's a non-trivial chance of.

However, I do have to ask what the US is supposed to have gotten out of this action in our supposedly "America First" foreign policy from the world's greatest negotiator, besides making his evangelical voters happy.
posted by zachlipton at 2:38 PM on December 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Regarding the House resolution requiring concealed carry permits to be recognized by all states, like a marriage license - 31 states allow non-resident licenses, many obtainable by mail order.

The bill is expected to fail in the Senate.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:50 PM on December 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Lachlan Markay, Daily Beast: James O’Keefe Forgot to Tell Regulators About His Past Conviction. Now, Project Veritas May Be in Trouble.
The office of New York attorney general Eric Schneiderman laid groundwork to revoke the charitable status of the conservative group Project Veritas last week, claiming it had misled the state about its president James O’Keefe’s past criminal conviction.

In response, Project Veritas is floating a surprising defense: that O’Keefe, the group’s founder and its most prominent public face for the past eight years, was actually a minor player during its early days.

“James was not a Director or Officer of the company at that time,” spokesman Stephen Gordon told The Daily Beast on Tuesday.

The question of O’Keefe’s level of involvement in Project Veritas’ origins could very well determine the group’s future in New York state, where O’Keefe lives and Project Veritas is headquartered. If Schneiderman concludes that Project Veritas ran afoul of state regulations, it could be barred from soliciting contributions in New York.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:53 PM on December 6, 2017 [31 favorites]


He endorsed his son, John Conyers III, to succeed him in Congress.
This is so infuriating and I'm feeling really stabby right now.
Hey, I'm as sick of nepotism and dynastic politics as anyone, but sometimes it's the lesser of two evils, and anyway we will at least have gotten rid of this specter of misogynistic elite privilege which ... shit, never mind.

John Conyers III arrested but not prosecuted in domestic abuse case
posted by roystgnr at 2:59 PM on December 6, 2017 [28 favorites]


Like father, like son, seems to be a major theme of the week.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 3:00 PM on December 6, 2017


I just saw a television ad for Don Blankenship for Senate, it looks like he's running for the senate seat for Crazy Town. The gist of the ad is that the federal Mine Safety and Health Administration killed the miners at Upper Big Branch and Obama, Manchin, and federal judges (who all happened to be African American) conspired to destroy evidence, revoke Blankenship's freedom of speech, and illegally jail him, so vote for Don. Production value was low. This played in the DC media market. It was pretty weird.
posted by peeedro at 3:04 PM on December 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


The [concealed carry] bill is expected to fail in the Senate.

If there's one thing that drives me batty, it's when some media outlet dangles a scary clickbait headline about some batshit piece of legislation coming down the pike with wording that makes it seem as if its passage into law was a done deal, rather than the usual congressional turd rolling that keeps representatives looking good for their big money donors while not having to actually achieve much of anything.
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:08 PM on December 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


One sleeper issue now: Jeff Sessions put out a memo on "Timely and Efficient Adjudication of Immigration Cases." Michael Kagen, immigration law professor at UNLV, breaks down some of the issues here.
posted by zachlipton at 3:09 PM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


With Franken, there is photographic evidence and his admission.
In the interests of accuracy, Franken does deny at least two of the accusations, and has responded along the lines of "I don't remember it, and I wouldn't have done it intentionally" with others. His only clear admission was to the incident that we have a photograph of anyway.

It's just hard to keep track of everything now that he's up to 8 different accusers - even the Google link that led me to that Vox story still had the original "6 women have now alleged sexual misconduct" title!
posted by roystgnr at 3:10 PM on December 6, 2017


[Added a warning to that link, wow.

Sorry. I skimmed over that a little bit I guess. Probably could've picked a better article without the unnecessary graphic account.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:12 PM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Lachlan Markay, Daily Beast: James O’Keefe Forgot to Tell Regulators About His Past Conviction. Now, Project Veritas May Be in Trouble.

Awesome news on the day he received an "IMPACT Award" for "defending liberty" in a ceremony held at Trump's DC hotel, presented by Ginni Thomas, CEO of Liberty Consulting, and, incidentally, wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Sean Hannity also received one, and Richard Viguerie, dark master of direct-mail fundraising, got a lifetime achievement award. This is how the right-wing noise machine keeps its hacks on the gravy train.
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:12 PM on December 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


Whether it moves the needle one way or the other on Moore is an interesting question, but irrelevant to whether or not it should be done. "So I hate taking out the trash at my house, but I was doing it the other day and --" "You think that'll force Alabama and/or the Senate to get tough on Moore? They'll just eat the moral hypocrisy and move on! You're Charlie Brown and they're Lucy with the football..."

I read Lithwick to be less concerned about the Moore race (sensibly, I think; there are too many confounding factors to know how a Franken resignation would/will play out) and more concerned about how setting an "accusations mean resignations" standard for elected officials who are Democrats (and only for those who are Democrats) will ultimately play out. I feel like this conversation has been hashed out multiple times, here and elsewhere, and I hesitate to do it again, because I doubt any minds will be changed. But the issue here is, I think, not quite what you describe; the issue here is that "taking out the trash" is itself a weaponisable action. (Leaving aside the risks to both elected Democrats and #metoo/Believe Women if a false accusation ever does get levied, which would likely delight the Republicans no end.)

You're right: risks don't make the action less morally right. But the problem is that Republicans will point to this resignation, and any to come, as (further) proof that Democrats are all morally bankrupt monsters; to repurpose your language, they'll point at the trash bags piled at the kerb and say "LOOK AT WHAT FILTHY GROSS HOARDERS THE DEMOCRATS ARE, THEY ARE THE PARTY OF GARBAGE, LOOK AT ALL THEIR FILTHY GARBAGE." While, of course, continuing to live in filth themselves -- but, according to the 'logic' of our current state of affairs, if you refuse to admit the garbage is there, it's not there.

It remains to be seen whether or not voters will approve of Democrats taking out their trash. I don't think it makes sense to treat it as given that they will. It depends on how the media covers the situation and how much attention the electorate pays, and there is not necessarily a lot of reason to be optimistic about either of those things. I think that's what Lithwick is saying.
posted by halation at 3:12 PM on December 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


!

On MSNBC now: Rep. Eric Swallwell saying Don Jr. refused to answer any questions about conversations he had with his father. Swall saying his excuse, that his attorney was present, is BS.

"I don't remember it, and I wouldn't have done it intentionally"

What is it about sexual assault and Ambassador Kislyak that makes people so forgetful?
posted by Room 641-A at 3:17 PM on December 6, 2017 [28 favorites]


Don Jr.'s interview with the House Intelligence Committee has ended, clocking in at just over 8 hours.

This is interesting, from CNN's Manu Raju: "Trump Jr would NOT reveal what he discussed with his father around time of initial stories about the Trump Tower meeting. They had a conversation about something, sources say. But he acknowledged speaking with Hope Hicks."

"Schiff says that Don Jr and father had a discussion AFTER emails were released but Don Jr would not disclose them because of attorney-client privilege since it was in presence of counsels"
posted by scarylarry at 3:20 PM on December 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


Folks have been asking about the trustworthiness of Seth Abramson. Here's a negative view.

Ben Mathis-Lilley, Slate: Democrats: Please, Please Stop Sharing Seth Abramson’s Very Bad Tweets
Seth Abramson, who appears to have added more than 200,000 Twitter followers in the last six months, is a more interesting or at least more complicated case; his schtick is less credulous fabulism than hyperbolic sleight of hand. Using only the same reported mainstream media articles that everyone else in the country reads, Abramson creates an atmosphere in which the collapse of the Trump administration and disgrace/imprisonment of everyone involved with it is perpetually imminent. He’s not making things up, per se; he’s just recycling information you could find on any news site and adding sinister what-if hypotheticals to create conclusions that he refers to, quite seriously, as “investigatory analyses.”
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:25 PM on December 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


The republicans will talk trash about Al Franken and say he's representative of democrat swamp morals whether he stays or resigns because they will say any damn thing at all that they think will give them an advantage because they lie with every voiced exhalation. If we'd tossed out Bill Clinton and removed him from around Hilary's neck in the 90s and if we'd started to do something about this horrific shit when Anita Hill first got dragged before congress and grilled about it, we'd not be in this fix, now. This is not a can that we can keep kicking down the road.
posted by Don Pepino at 3:28 PM on December 6, 2017 [23 favorites]


Swall saying his excuse, that his attorney was present, is BS.
...
"Schiff says that Don Jr and father had a discussion AFTER emails were released but Don Jr would not disclose them because of attorney-client privilege since it was in presence of counsels"

Right, isn't "Who else was in the room?" the first question asked when attorney-client privilege is invoked?

Wikipedia:
There are a number of exceptions to the privilege in most jurisdictions, chief among them:
the communication was made in the presence of individuals who were neither attorney nor client, or was disclosed to such individuals,
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 3:30 PM on December 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


He’s not making things up, per se; he’s just recycling information you could find on any news site and adding sinister what-if hypotheticals to create conclusions that he refers to, quite seriously, as “investigatory analyses.”

In other words, Seth Abramson is the "Herbal supplements can make you live longer!" to Louise Mensch's "Vaccinations are killing your children!"
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:30 PM on December 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


Schiff says that Don Jr and father had a discussion AFTER emails were released but Don Jr would not disclose them because of attorney-client privilege since it was in presence of counsels"

The way Swallwell explained it (or that I understood it) is that privilege doesn't apply when two people are talking to each other. Otherwise you could always have your attorney around and everything you said would be privileged.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:30 PM on December 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Ryan says Republicans to target welfare, Medicare, Medicaid spending in 2018

The extent of the Republican party's malevolent depravity is breathtaking. I would wish on each of these congresspeople five years spent as a poor/ middle class person, a sickly person without the Obamacare they enjoy, a senior on a very fixed income, a struggling immigrant, etc.

Re: the concealed carry legislation, my comment was based on skimming an email from the Giffords organization. If nothing like that passes the Senate, yay, one small victory.
posted by NorthernLite at 3:33 PM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Democrats: Please, Please Stop Sharing Seth Abramson’s Very Bad Tweets

Yes! He writes impeachment fanfic. That's fine... as long as everyone knows it's impeachment fanfic. But people don't. Think of all the folks who believed Taylor and Mensch far past the point it became clear they were charlatans (ie beyond roughly 2 hours of looking at their tweets). And Abramson is nowhere as bad so very large numbers of people are being fooled.

If James Comey's twitter posts some analysis then maybe there would be something to get excited about. I'd accept as important Preet Bharara calling the Trump regime done. Maaaaaybe powerful insiders in Congress. That means Schumer or Pelosi or Feinstein, not Ted Lieu. I love me Ted Lieu but come on.

Abramson? Some rando on twitter is not gonna be the guy who breaks this whole case wide open.
posted by Justinian at 3:36 PM on December 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


If we'd tossed out Bill Clinton and removed him from around Hilary's neck in the 90s and if we'd started to do something about this horrific shit when Anita Hill first got dragged before congress and grilled about it, we'd not be in this fix, now.

Quite a few high-profile Democratic Reps or Senators from the last 30 or 40 years have been disgraced over sexual misconduct. Reynolds, Condit, Studds, Wu and Kennedy, to name a few. It didn't begin with Clinton or Hill and it wouldn't have ended there.
posted by zarq at 3:37 PM on December 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


presented by Ginni Thomas, CEO of Liberty Consulting, and, incidentally, wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas

Remember when she called up Anita Hill 19 years after the confirmation hearings and asked for an apology and explanation to Clarence. Good times. (And terrible person.)
“Good morning Anita Hill, it’s Ginni Thomas,” it said. “I just wanted to reach across the airwaves and the years and ask you to consider something. I would love you to consider an apology sometime and some full explanation of why you did what you did with my husband.”

Ms. Thomas went on: “So give it some thought. And certainly pray about this and hope that one day you will help us understand why you did what you did. O.K., have a good day.”
posted by chris24 at 3:47 PM on December 6, 2017 [27 favorites]


Yep - she did that as a distraction from the fact that it was revealed that because of her, her husband should have recused himself in Citizens United.

Utterly reprehensible.
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:53 PM on December 6, 2017 [54 favorites]


Ms. Thomas went on: “So give it some thought. And certainly pray about this and hope that one day you will help us understand why you did what you did. O.K., have a good day.”

Well bless her heart.

Oh, I’m sorry. I meant to say: fuck that and fuck the fuck right off, Ginni Thomas.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 3:57 PM on December 6, 2017 [28 favorites]


It remains to be seen whether or not voters will approve of Democrats taking out their trash. I don't think it makes sense to treat it as given that they will. It depends on how the media covers the situation and how much attention the electorate pays, and there is not necessarily a lot of reason to be optimistic about either of those things. I think that's what Lithwick is saying.

I think we need to be a less afraid and lot more 'on message,' e.g. "Chairman of the Pedophile Supporting Republican National Committee, Reince Priebus, said..."
posted by leotrotsky at 3:57 PM on December 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


The local elections thread has closed, so

Fenit Nirappil, WaPo: Future of Virginia politics comes down to race where a Republican leads by 10 votes
NEWPORT NEWS — It was “Take Your State Legislator to School Day” in this coastal Virginia city. And two of them showed up.

Del. David Yancey, a Republican who has represented the district that includes Heritage High School since 2012, barely won reelection last month, eking out a victory with a margin of just 10 votes. He passed out his General Assembly business cards to students in a medical skills class.

But his Democratic challenger, local school board member Shelly Simonds, hasn’t given up and also appeared at last week’s event. Simonds watched teenagers investigate a fake crime scene in a room down the hall. She requested a recount, which the state will conduct Dec. 19.

The rivals barely acknowledged each other, save for an awkward hello as the three-hour tour wrapped up.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:58 PM on December 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Quite a few high-profile Democratic Reps or Senators from the last 30 or 40 years have been disgraced over sexual misconduct. Reynolds, Condit, Studds, Wu and Kennedy, to name a few. It didn't begin with Clinton or Hill and it wouldn't have ended there.

Requoted for truth. One of the hallmarks of bad faith strategy is taking any advantage you can get, and that means, when our side does have problems, they amplify them. This is an ever-present danger and we need to be cognizant of it and ready to match them tit for tat, so it hurts Republicans more than us when they make bad faith arguments about real problems. It's 20 years down the line, and Ken Starr/Newt Gingrich haven't been tarred and feathered and shouted out of Washington for their wasted moral outrage in the Clinton years. We should have our own propaganda mills recounting the cases of Republican hypocrisy into America's ears for eternity. I see it as a strategic failure on our part that we don't.

That said, out with the sexual harassers.
posted by saysthis at 4:00 PM on December 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Even setting aside the fact that it was communication with a non-lawyer where lawyers just happened to also be present, attorney-client privilege is only a factor if you’re trying to get info from the lawyer. Unless Jr is Sr’s lawyer, there’s nothing remotely privileged about it. This is “Take to the sea!” nonsense.

If they weren’t father and son, they’d undoubtedly be getting married ASAP for the spousal immunity.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:05 PM on December 6, 2017 [24 favorites]


Also because you can't convict a husband and wife for the same crime.
posted by LarsC at 4:08 PM on December 6, 2017 [35 favorites]


Remember when she called up Anita Hill 19 years after the confirmation hearings and asked for an apology and explanation to Clarence. Good times. (And terrible person.)

Yeah, that was my 2nd FPP. Unshockingly, we all brought up the massive conflict of interest that exists with her far-right-wing lobbying and her husband.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 4:10 PM on December 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Orly?

Russian oligarch Deripaska drops libel suit against Associated Press (Josh Gerstein, Politico)
A Russian oligarch whose business dealings have come under scrutiny by investigators probing Russian influence in the 2016 presidential election has dropped a libel suit against the Associated Press. [...]

Deripaska's suit, filed in May, alleged that an AP story published two months earlier falsely implied that Deripaska was paying Manafort for work aimed at advancing the goals of the Russian government and Russian president Vladimir Putin.

The suit also said the article created the false impression that Deripaska's dealings with Manafort were intertwined with the Trump campaign, despite the fact that the two men ended their work together by 2009.
Remember when she called up Anita Hill 19 years after the confirmation hearings and asked her to apologize and explain herself to Clarence.

Can you imagine that Ask? "Dear AskMe, 20 years ago I was assaulted by my boss. A few days ago I received a phone call from my assaulter's wife..."

LarsC: Also because you can't convict a husband and wife for the same crime.

This made my day in ways I cannot explain.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:28 PM on December 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


If they weren’t father and son, they’d undoubtedly be getting married ASAP for the spousal immunity.

Three thoughts:
1) There is no parent-child immunity comparable to spousal privilege. (This is a topic worth its own FPP, but it's not one with current relevance that I know of.)

2) Spousal privilege is one of the reasons I don't think poly marriages are going to happen anytime soon, regardless of how tolerant society gets regarding genders and emotional commitments of the people in a relationship. It's one of many legal issues that have been balanced for "two people in a marriage" that don't split well to a larger group.

3) We already know which child of his Donald Sr wants to marry; Don Jr will have to stand in line.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:35 PM on December 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


Cole Ledford [via Twitter]:
Two years ago, Kim Davis denied David Ermold a marriage license because he was gay, despite it being legalized.
Today, she had to watch as he signed up to run against her in the next election.

That photo!
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:36 PM on December 6, 2017 [94 favorites]


YOU FUCKERS ARE TRYING TO INCREASE THE DEFICIT BY A TRILLION DOLLARS YOU SHAMELESS PIECE OF SHIT

*starts humming the tune of "Do You Hear the People Sing?"*
posted by Talez at 4:39 PM on December 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


* Correction so I don't abuse the edit window: Three states, Idaho, Massachusetts, and Minnesota , recognize parent-child privileged communication.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:42 PM on December 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


WaPo, Josh Rogin, State Department sets up emergency task force for Jerusalem fallout

thisisfine.gif
posted by zachlipton at 4:50 PM on December 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


Two years ago, Kim Davis denied David Ermold a marriage license because he was gay, despite it being legalized.
Today, she had to watch as he signed up to run against her in the next election.

Here's where to donate to Ermold's campaign, as posted in Cole Ledford's tweet. I will be sending a check with "Sweet, sweet Karma" written in the memo.
posted by tllaya at 4:52 PM on December 6, 2017 [22 favorites]


To not abuse edit: You can, of course, use a credit card online. I just really, really want to write that memo on the check.
posted by tllaya at 4:55 PM on December 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Jeff Stein, WaPo: Ryan says Republicans to target welfare, Medicare, Medicaid spending in 2018

Here's another choice quote:
On the Senate floor during the tax debate, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) asked Rubio and Sen. Patrick J. Toomey (R-Pa.) to promise that Republicans would not advance cuts to Medicare and Social Security after their tax bill. Toomey said that there was “no secret plan” to do so, while Rubio said he opposed cuts to either program for current beneficiaries. However, neither closed the door to changing the programs for future beneficiaries.

“I am not going to support any cuts to people who are on the program and need those benefits. But I want this program to survive,” Toomey said. To which Sanders responded: “He just told you he's going to cut Social Security.”
Bernie Sanders also proposed an amendment to the tax cut bill that would have prohibited this, and in addition to the Republicans, two Democratic senators (Warner and Carper) voted against it. When asked why, Warner's spokesperson pointed out the Senator's desire for "entitlement reform".

It looks like he's going to get his wish. Republicans are going to "reform" the fuck out of Medicare and Social Security.
posted by indubitable at 5:00 PM on December 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Detroit Free Press - Race for John Conyers' Congressional seat: Free-for-all predicted
“There is no guarantee that anyone named Conyers is going to be the next congressman representing Detroit,” said Sam Riddle, a Detroit political consultant and community activist. “We’re on the verge for the biggest free-for-all politically you’ve ever seen in the city of Detroit.”
posted by Chrysostom at 5:10 PM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Republicans hammer Mueller, FBI as Russia investigation intensifies (WaPo)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:12 PM on December 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Politico:
Minnesota Gov. Mark Dayton is expected to appoint his lieutenant governor and close ally, Tina Smith, to Al Franken’s seat if the Democratic senator resigns on Thursday, three people familiar with the Democratic governor’s thinking said.

But that appointment would be just the start of a huge upheaval in Minnesota. Part of the reason Smith could be heading to the Senate, the sources said, is because she has indicated no interest in running for Congress in the past and would not run for the remainder of Franken’s term, which expires in 2020, in a 2018 special election. That would clear the way for a wide-open Democratic primary next year if Franken steps down.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:16 PM on December 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


Republicans hammer Mueller, FBI as Russia investigation intensifies

I’m not sure the the Republican Party has thought through the long term implications of making mortal enemies of both the intelligence community and the premier federal law enforcement agency in defense of an obvious traitor. I bet ABSCAM is going to look like a walk in the park compared to what we’ll be seeing down the pike.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:23 PM on December 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


As I understand it, the Senate bill allows up to $10K/year from a 529 plan to be spent on private K-12 education expenses,

that's not really a $10k contribution to home schooling, it's whatever your marginal rate on $10k is (and they claim to be reducing tax rates so that will be less) maybe at most it's $3kish - and of course if you earn nothing because you're home schooling your kid it's $0
posted by mbo at 5:29 PM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Because of course Erik Prince interned for Dana Rohrabacher:
MR. SWALWELL: You know Mr. Rohrabacher, Dana Rohrabacher.

MR. PRINCE: Of course.

MR. SWALWELL: You worked for him.

MR. PRINCE: I was an intern for him.

MR. SWALWELL: Did you talk to Mr. Rohrabacher at all during the 2016 campaign about your views on Russia or his views?

MR. PRINCE: I don't recall. No, I don't think I did.
posted by chris24 at 5:32 PM on December 6, 2017 [22 favorites]


@WaPoSean
NEWS: Rep. Terri Sewell helping Doug Jones organize big final push in Alabama this weekend. Sen. Cory Booker, Rep. John Lewis expected to campaign with Jones in Birmingham, per Sewell's office. Also possible: Deval Patrick. Story TK.


@ForecasterEnten (538)
Retweeted Sean Sullivan
Jones probably needs a big African-American turnout to win. Very clear he's not taking it for granted.
posted by chris24 at 5:42 PM on December 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


Is there still no update on the progress of the Russian sanctions?

The Senate passed them at the beginning of August. The administration missed the Oct. 1 deadline, and the State Dept. gave a vague statement at the end of October confirming that they intend to carry out the sanctions and details would be coming "shortly." Neither state.gov nor my Google-fu reveal any subsequent updates for the past 40 days.

Are they hoping there's enough chaos that we just forget? Or is it normal for "shortly" to mean several months for this sort of legislation?
posted by p3t3 at 5:44 PM on December 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


Here's where to donate to Ermold's campaign, as posted in Cole Ledford's tweet.

It's not legal for non-US citizens to donate, right?
posted by acb at 5:49 PM on December 6, 2017


State Department sets up emergency task force for Jerusalem fallout

8 countries call for UN meeting on Jerusalem after Trump's announcement (CBS News) -- Warning auto video ad
Eight countries opposed to President Donald Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital have asked for an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council this week.

Sweden's U.N. Mission said the eight nations have asked Japan, this month's council president, to have Secretary-General Antonio Guterres brief the 15 council members.

The eight council nations that requested the meeting are Bolivia, Egypt, France, Italy, Senegal, Sweden, United Kingdom and Uruguay.

Guterres said after Mr. Trump's announcement that the issue must be resolved through direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians and warned that "unilateral measures" can jeopardize prospects for peace.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:50 PM on December 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Not to abuse the edit - a partial answer to my own question regarding sanctions:

I noticed the State Dept. did release a 2nd statement a few days after the 10/27 statement on the sanctions: Release of Public Guidance for the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act

But the wording: "This guidance is not a sanctions action; it is a publication of information intended to provide clarity regarding the implementation of sanctions" makes it sound like this is still not final, especially since I see no subsequent news stories via Google or Wikipedia. Is this still in limbo then?
posted by p3t3 at 5:58 PM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Meanwhile, Australia's conservative government has ruled out moving its embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, despite hardliners in the government (including Tony Abbott) having previously called for that very action.
posted by acb at 5:59 PM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


chris24: "@WaPoSean"

Some cool guy already posted this in the Moore thread. ;)
posted by Chrysostom at 5:59 PM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's not legal for non-US citizens to donate, right?

Legal Permanent Residents (LPRs, "green card" holders) can donate to candidates in US elections.
posted by phliar at 6:00 PM on December 6, 2017


Have a Democratic senator? Bummed you haven't been able to call as much as your friends with Republican reps?

Now is your time. CALL.

Senate Democrats Divided Over Whether to Shut Down the Government Over DREAMer Protections
posted by chris24 at 6:31 PM on December 6, 2017 [14 favorites]


Fellow conservatives, it's time to call on Clarence Thomas to resign

No Thomas, no Shelby, no Hobby Lobby, no Citizens United, no Gore ...

Well, maybe yes Gore. :(
posted by the man of twists and turns at 6:34 PM on December 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


There is only one thing I want from Al Franken before he steps down. I want him to introduce a bill in the Senate that if any elected official is accused of sexual assault, an official bipartisan Senate investigation is automatically triggered, and if the results show that he violated some (defined) ethical rules/standards, then he must step down or face expulsion. Or something along those lines. Given all the Republicans who have spoken out against Franken, I'm sure the bill would get bipartisan support, and then we could be sure that sexual predators would not find any sanctuary in the Senate purely because of their party affiliation. Perhaps it would set a standard that would eventually apply to all elected officials. I can't imagine that any congressperson would be against something like this, given how outspoken they've been about Franken.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:35 PM on December 6, 2017 [39 favorites]


Is there still no update on the progress of the Russian sanctions?

This is the most recent thing I've read about the sanctions (11/24):

Congress Braces for Russia Sanctions Face-Off With White House as New Deadline Looms: Lawmakers are furious that the White House has put enforcing sanctions against Russia on the backburner.
posted by homunculus at 6:48 PM on December 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


Have a Democratic senator? Bummed you haven't been able to call as much as your friends with Republican reps?

I don't want the Democrats to shut down the government. That's just throwing another group under the bus.
posted by Talez at 6:58 PM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Reported by the washpo:
[Bannon] told the crowd that they can be “the voice of the deplorables” next Tuesday: “They think you’re a bunch of rubes. They hold you in total contempt,” he said. “If they can destroy Roy Moore, they can destroy you. They’re trying to send a signal to every young man, woman and child in this country that if they try to stand up for their people, they’ll be destroyed.”

Gina Loudon, a conservative TV personality, warmed up the crowd for Bannon. She noted that some are asking how women could support Moore, and then she turned the question around: “Why would you listen to the party of Bill Clinton, Al Franken and John Conyers? … The women of Alabama are smarter than that.”
A) on the one hand, yes, Dems need to clean house because it's being used against them. On the other hand, Bill Clinton hasn't held office in 20 years. I don't think anything the Democrats do will change the rhetoric.

B) I included that first graf because it's terrifying. It's proto fash. But. I honestly feel like the Republicans are trying to destroy me. I can see myself saying similar things. I think similar sentiments have been posted in these threads. I don't know how to feel about it all.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 7:00 PM on December 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Democrats can't shut down the government. Republicans have unified control; if they want to keep the government open they have the votes to do so without a single Democratic vote. I don't see why the Democrats would provide those votes if they don't get something for it.
posted by Justinian at 7:02 PM on December 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


B) I included that first graf because it's terrifying. It's proto fash. But. I honestly feel like the Republicans are trying to destroy me. I can see myself saying similar things. I think similar sentiments have been posted in these threads. I don't know how to feel about it all.

It passed proto a long time ago.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:10 PM on December 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


@marthamaccallum: Breaking: Amb. Nikki Haley not certain we should send our athletes to the Olympics. Will depend on NK situation.

maxboot : What a blow to one of America’s most important allies, S Korea, to even suggest such a thing. South Koreans live with N Korean threat every day and they’re not panicking. US officials shouldn’t be either—unless they’re planning to start a war with N Korea.
posted by zachlipton at 7:10 PM on December 6, 2017 [72 favorites]


“Why would you listen to the party of Bill Clinton, Al Franken and John Conyers? … The women of Alabama are smarter than that.”

Obviously they’re not, if they’re going to vote for the child molester. And similarly, if child molesters are “your people” then maybe you should consider getting new people.
posted by Autumnheart at 7:19 PM on December 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


Breaking: Amb. Nikki Haley not certain we should send our athletes to the Olympics. Will depend on NK situation.

There's no way this administration would pass up a chance for nationalist gloating by boycotting the Olympics. Trump is the Troll President. Just like the announcement that we're really like for reals going to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, it'll just take longer than my presidency to actually do anything about it, this announcement is empty bluster to make it sound like we're serious about war with NK, as if NK weren't already a thousand times better at that game already.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 7:24 PM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


OMIGOD, Dems are such hypocrites with Franken and Conyers. Why haven't they resigned!

(get rid of Conyers and Franken)

OMIGOD, Dems were so unfair to Franken.


Amazing what knowing you're about to be made to look bad will do.

@brianstelter
Al Franken defenders on Fox News! Gingrich and Ingraham just now: This is “political calculation.” And “weird puritanism.” He’s accused of “minor stuff.” Dems are a “lynch mob.” There’s “no due process.”
posted by chris24 at 7:26 PM on December 6, 2017 [31 favorites]


We just happened to consider boycotting the Olympics because of North Korea the same day the Olympics bans Russia?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:27 PM on December 6, 2017 [80 favorites]


There’s “no due process.”

That's because not everyone is trying to get off scott free once they're dead to rights in the wrong.
posted by Talez at 7:31 PM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


I think the basic story about the the guy who was told about the Flynn/Saudi plan to build nuclear reactors with Russia's help has been covered here, but this lays it out in a coherent way: A Missing Piece Falls Into Place in the Saga of Michael Flynn
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:33 PM on December 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Olympics at its best, behind all the money and everything, really does have a core of international relationships and peace, and I can't think of a much better way to signal to the world that "hey, you should go on without us, we're just holding you back" than backing out for no reason other than the president hating anything good.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:40 PM on December 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


Former Tennessee Gov. Phil Bredesen Will Run For Senate

A LOT of strong Democratic candidates are declaring in Republican held districts.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:21 PM on December 6, 2017 [28 favorites]


God, my kids are good kids. I might have made a slightly daft decision in sandwiching that little speech between their weekly quiz and their allotted time without me in the room in order to submit my teaching evaluations. Smart, self. (And then we found out I'd accidentally made a typo that turned a perfectly sensible quiz question about phylogenies into an insane troll question that made no sense and had no actual answer, which makes me wince and will probably result in all of them getting two points--but anyway, I didn't figure that out until after evaluations time. Man, I'm slick.)

But I talked to them, anyway. I was greeted when I walked into lab by my kids sitting alongside the hall into the lab, some of who were visibly surprised to see me and said things like "you're here!" and "wait, shouldn't you be out demanding solidarity at the Tower?" I told them that I was going to talk about that in a minute, set them down with first their quiz and then their skills test, prevented not one but two or three excited politics outbursts (I think over the fires at Murdoch's, schadenfreude over the Republican tax cuts, and I forget the last) so that students could finish in a relatively quiet environment, and then I held up my end of the bargain.

I explained that there was indeed a graduate student walk-out that had happened at noon, and that I wanted to be there but had chosen to teach my lab in order to give them the opportunity to finish the course out well. I explained the alternatives if I had chosen to walk out--none of them good for the students--and added that I was concerned by their timing, but that the timing of the tax bill was also bad. I explained that I have actually already paid tax on my tuition waiver in the past, and that my very first semester out of undergraduate, I made about $1750/month with my taxes withheld--and the very first semester of that very first month, I had about $600 withheld from that paycheck for those taxes for the semester, which continued for a few years before my department stepped up to the plate and started paying the tax for us. At the time, it was about a month's rent.

I explained that my taxes would go up tenfold under this bill, at least according to the calculator my department dean of students sent us. I explained also that, you know, I'm an adult and I need to support my family, and that if the graduate student tuition waiver were to begin being taxed as income tax, I would need to walk away from my work and take a job that would not actively put me in debt.

I asked them to contact their representatives about the tax bill, and added that look, I know that Cornyn and Cruz won't listen, and so do you; but I explained that thing I'd said upthread or a few threads ago, about why it's worth it to call and make them miserable anyway and why it can disrupt the system to be loud in vocalizing your complaints. I paused for a moment, feeling like I'd rambled long enough, and two or three kids started up a chorus of "Thank you, sciatrix!" (I think I'd reminded them that I was here for them, not because it was actually in my interest to be here. But I wasn't actually fishing for a response; I was just trying to conclude.)

I managed to get something out about how teaching evaluations do affect us, particularly my instructor of record (who is a very junior lecturer teaching her first ever class), and then I set the video up that we're asked to play before course evals go out and went outside and hid in the hallway. They wouldn't let me come in for a solid fifteen minutes when I stepped out--usually evaluations take five, tops, so god knows what was going down, but I think it was positive judging from the two students who informed me that they had angrily put down that I deserved a raise. (I informed them I'd had one semi-recently, or at least the TAs had... and that that had been the first cost of living increase in seven years, so I didn't think it was very likely.)

Anyway, then we had our lab, and half of it worked and half of it didn't, and it was a bit of a clusterfuck but it came out all right in the end. (They don't know Excel to save their lives, which I find a bit darkly hilarious--looks like someone along the line in their lives sort of just assumed that kids absorb that stuff automatically and no one bothered to teach them. So we had a crash course on Excel formulas.) This is their last lab, but they kept telling me nice things as they left. They're good kids. Several of them clearly wanted my attention for a conversation as we were finishing up.

As an aside, I made a terrible wardrobe choice this morning in an effort to get away with wearing pajamas to work and wore a sweater dress/tunic over leggings that turned out to be just sliiiightly too small. So as all of this was going on, I was feeling the leggings make a desperate bid to flee halfway down my ass cheeks and devoutly praying the tunic would cover things up until I could go hide and make some rather desperate and indiscreet adjustments to the trouser situation. This happened to me repeatedly throughout the day if I dared to go anywhere, and I spent the day in constant paranoia that I was flashing my ass to just about everyone around me. I was not, but... uh, well, it certainly lent an air of comedic paranoia to the entire affair.

So anyway, if any of my students read Metafilter and recognize themselves: if I seemed a little distant today, I promise it wasn't anything you were doing so much as a certain desperate desire not to have my damn leggings fall to the floor while I'm trying to succeed in passing for an authority figure.

Adulting, dammit.
posted by sciatrix at 8:25 PM on December 6, 2017 [147 favorites]


B) I included that first graf because it's terrifying. It's proto fash. But. I honestly feel like the Republicans are trying to destroy me. I can see myself saying similar things. I think similar sentiments have been posted in these threads. I don't know how to feel about it all.

I think that two very different definitions of 'saying something' are inadvertently conflated here. There's an enormous difference between saying something in conversation, and saying it with a microphone in your hand, cameras recording, to a rabidly angry crowd of people.

(There is also an enormous difference between Bannon's claims and your feelings, in that the former is propagandistic incitement, while the latter is a pretty reasonable response to the facts as we know them.)
posted by LooseFilter at 8:29 PM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


they have the votes to do so without a single Democratic vote.

Doesn't a budget resolution require 60 votes?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:29 PM on December 6, 2017


A) on the one hand, yes, Dems need to clean house because it's being used against them.

Yes, Democrats should clean house, but they should do it because they believe it's the right thing to do. The GOP using something against them should never be a factor, given that if they don't have anything they will straight up MAKE SHIT UP. Remember Benghazi? Birtherism? Pizzagate? I am so, so tired of Democrats (and the press, and all reasonable people) always playing defense because Republicans have no morals and we're so shit-scared of seeming biased or partisan, so we end up giving credence (and thus, legitimacy) to every bananapants batshit crazy fucking conspiracy theory they throw at us.

Pull your shit together, Democratic party. It has never been so apparent that we are on the right side of history, but as long as we keep playing their game and asking how high when they yell JUMP, no one will ever see that. Because when we play Both Sides, regular everyday people think there actually are two sides! And for regular, everyday people, there really, really aren't. We have GOT to stop this reactionary bullshit. Kirsten Gillibrand is showing us how to do it. Maxine Waters is showing us how to do it. There are others too, but the point is we need to stop. It only works if we all cooperate - politicians, citizens, press, EVERYONE. *hard stare at NPR/NYT*

sorry for the rant, which is not directed at the OP of the quote
posted by triggerfinger at 8:32 PM on December 6, 2017 [53 favorites]


it's too bad that north korea isn't marching with the south in the opening ceremonies under the unified flag, which they did in 2000, 2004, and 2006.

I maintain hope that North and South Korea can still be brought into a beautiful mutual commiseration over how bugfuck insane the US is with regard to both of them nowadays.

(Silver linings!)
posted by jackbishop at 8:33 PM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


MetaFilter: it certainly lent an air of comedic paranoia to the entire affair
posted by reductiondesign at 8:33 PM on December 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


At this point I'm pretty sure Trump is what we would have gotten in 1969 if Nixon had also been so incompetent and vain that he hadn't been surrounded by experts. Say what you want about him, but his bugfuck crazy schtick worked thanks to that evil fuck Kissinger and a few others playing the adults in the room.

They also had extensive pre-inauguration contact with the Russians, among others, come to think of it...
posted by wierdo at 8:52 PM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Jerusalem being declared the Official Capital of Israel is a step in that process.

yeah, and something something about a red heifer.
yes, seriously. i know, i'm embarrassed too.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 8:55 PM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Fellow conservatives, it's time to call on Clarence Thomas to resign

How convenient. Get rid of the old guy and slip in an even more wing-nut who's only 35. How stupid does "Jay Jaganoff" think we are?
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:01 PM on December 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


A lot of people really want the world to end don't they?
posted by perhapses at 9:03 PM on December 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


They also had extensive pre-inauguration contact with the Russians, among others, come to think of it...

I like to think that Mueller thinks about this and Reagan backdoor negotiating the Iranian hostage situation before the election a lot. Certainly the karmic bill is overdue for the non-response to those.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:08 PM on December 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Josh Dawsey, Missy Ryan and Karen DeYoung, WaPo: Trump had for months been determined to move U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem
While Trump appeared to have made up his mind, he continued to solicit input, two White House officials said, even asking random acquaintances about the Middle East in recent months.

Several advisers said he did not seem to have a full understanding of the issue and instead appeared to be focused on “seeming pro-Israel,” in the words of one, and “making a deal,” in the words of another.

Once Trump indicated 10 days ago that he would not sign a second waiver, national security adviser H.R. McMaster began putting together options that officials assessed would result in the least damage.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:14 PM on December 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


I like to think that Mueller thinks about this and Reagan backdoor negotiating the Iranian hostage situation before the election a lot. Certainly the karmic bill is overdue for the non-response to those.

I would hope so too, but isn't Mueller a Republican? I've never in my life met a Republican who didn't worship Saint Reagan.
posted by triggerfinger at 9:19 PM on December 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Robert Barnes, WaPo: Trump administration asks Supreme Court to overrule precedent helping unions
The Trump administration on Wednesday asked the Supreme Court to overrule a 40-year-old precedent that allows compelling public employees to pay some fees to unions that represent them, an important tool for the U.S. labor movement.

It was another dramatic reversal in a high-profile case before the high court, and at least the third time since President Trump’s inauguration that the Justice Department has renounced its past positions, some held for decades.

It puts the administration squarely on the side of conservative legal activists, who have complained for years that the requirement violates the free-speech rights of those who don’t want to join the union or pay fees to it.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:24 PM on December 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


How does it violate free speech? Doesn’t it provide more free speech options to people who don’t have the money to defend themselves against corporations with large budgets?
posted by gucci mane at 10:44 PM on December 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Sciatrix, I just wanna say: goddamn.
posted by rp at 11:11 PM on December 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


How does it violate free speech? Doesn’t it provide more free speech options to people who don’t have the money to defend themselves against corporations with large budgets?

Nah, you're thinking of the common usage of the word "free". It has a different meaning in right-wing political dialog in the waning years of the USA.

It's more of a term of art that essentially means "Hey, that's mine! Fuck off {insert distractingly-inapt racist/sexist/homophobic/etc slur}."
posted by Anoplura at 11:20 PM on December 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Just popping in to say, as I sometimes do, that like so many others I rarely have anything to add to these threads, but they keep me tethered when all around me seem mad, and I am grateful.
posted by kemrocken at 11:35 PM on December 6, 2017 [44 favorites]


I know it's not US politics, but some happy news... The Australian Parliament just passed Marriage Equality. Here's the final division.
posted by michswiss at 11:42 PM on December 6, 2017 [70 favorites]


When you wake up from a very surreal dream that defies explanation, the best thing for your tortured mind is decidedly _not_ to open this thread and read about NEWT FUCKING GINGRICH on national TV defending a Democrat accused of sexual misbehavior.

Did he then sprout wings and breathe out a torrent of rainbows?
posted by delfin at 3:45 AM on December 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Newt Fucking Gingrich and most of them used to be for Cap and Trade, an individual mandate, and countless other things before the Democrats finally gave up and said "fine, let's do it your way," whereupon they immediately said JUST KIDDING and held the country hostage for 6 years because they can't take yes for an answer. Sticking it to the left is more important in their minds than anything else, including their actual policy desires.

That's exactly why he's defending Franken now that he's apparently on the way out. Since Newt can't use Franken as a stick to beat up those calling out Roy Moore, he's now switching gears and trying to shame the party for "forcing" Franken out before the "official" investigation. (Which, at the moment, is the only thing that could possibly count as due process in his mind. Never mind that 98%+ of all criminal cases never see that kind of due process, what with ending in an early guilty plea.)
posted by wierdo at 5:00 AM on December 7, 2017 [51 favorites]


Newt Gingrich, with his hospital-bed divorce and his outsized role in going after Bill Clinton, is not defending Al Franken.

He's (preemptively) defending Roy Moore, and (immediately) defending the patriarchy.
posted by box at 5:10 AM on December 7, 2017 [51 favorites]


Oh, I get _why_ he did it. Like everything else in Newt's life not related to zoos, it is a blatant political calculation for a short-term gain.

It's just jarring as hell to watch that level of doublethink in action, yet another example of how history before last Friday no longer exists when that's convenient and few in any media find that worth mentioning. It'd be like changing the channel and seeing Pamela Geller hug a Muslim.
posted by delfin at 5:14 AM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


CEO says late changes to Senate tax-cut bill 'wipes out' what Trump has done for coal (Avery Anapol, The Hill)
The CEO of one of the nation's largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would "wipe out" coal mining jobs.

Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.

"We won't have enough cash flow to exist," Murray told CNNMoney. "This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal."
I would tell you how I found this but I'm asserting Twitter user to Twitter user privilege. (It was @KyleGriffin1, a great follow.)
posted by Room 641-A at 5:16 AM on December 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


So we're all clear, "what Trump has done for coal" amounts to him rolling back regulations intended to protect our waterways from coal mining waste and also to make sure that energy companies disclose their financials so they don't gouge consumers. Regulations that the industry fought like mad against. Presumably, polluting our water and screwing the public financially was vital to the health of the industry.

Forgive me if I don't shed a tear while they're hoist on their own petard now.
posted by zarq at 5:30 AM on December 7, 2017 [38 favorites]


Trump didn't seem to have complete understanding of Jerusalem decision: report
President Trump did not completely grasp the ramifications of recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital, several advisers told The Washington Post.

Trump wanted to seem "pro-Israel" and focused on "making a deal," two advisers told the Post.
Report: Trump administration asks Israel to temper response on Jerusalem recognition
“We expect there to be resistance to this news in the Middle East and around the world. We are still judging the impact this decision will have on U.S. facilities and personnel overseas,” the document continued.

The report comes as protests begin to break out in the Palestinian dominated West Bank in response to Trump's announcement.

The leader of the Palestinian militant group Hamas on Thursday called for a new uprising to begin Friday against Israel in response to the announcement.
’This will be bad’: Clashes break out in West Bank over Trump Jerusalem speech (WaPo)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:06 AM on December 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


MSNBC Reverses Decision To Fire Contributor Sam Seder
Good to see that MSNBC realized its mistake here, and I hope, like Ryan Grim notes in his piece, this immunizes other Cernovich targets against his bad-faith readings of their old tweets.
posted by gladly at 6:23 AM on December 7, 2017 [44 favorites]


Breaking news: @nytimes now has more than 3.5 million paid subscriptions and more than 130 million monthly readers, more than double our audience just two years ago.

Trump's reverse Midas touch is working wonders it's even affecting the "failing" NYT. I can't stand all this #winning.
posted by Talez at 6:38 AM on December 7, 2017 [37 favorites]


Good to see that MSNBC realized its mistake here

Now all they need to do is dump Breitbart editor Joel Pollack, who regularly gets entire freaking segments on MSNBC.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:41 AM on December 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Here’s an absolutely horrifying Daily Beast story about sexual harassment (and guns) in the Texas Capitol.
posted by faineg at 6:42 AM on December 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Re: Jerusalem.. American Evangelism Looks Like an Apocalyptic Death-Cult
posted by Artw at 6:49 AM on December 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


American Evangelism Looks Like an Apocalyptic Death-Cult

I was just thinking that if I was an Evangelical I'd be worried that mayyyybe I'd been fooled by the anti-christ.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:57 AM on December 7, 2017 [29 favorites]


"Looks like"?
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:00 AM on December 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


'Metafilter: Apocalyptic Death-Cult'.

Or 'Metafilter: Alpaca-lyptic Death-Cult'
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:01 AM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Ana Marie Cox, Washington Post: Al Franken isn’t being denied due process. None of these famous men are.
But the courts aren’t where our national conversation is taking place, so let’s not dither about the dangers of proclaiming guilt or innocence. The standards of evidence necessary to decide you don’t want to go see someone’s movie, or laugh at his jokes, or watch him read the news while you get dressed, or elect him to the Senate are not the same as the ones required to put such men in prison. Instead, let’s acknowledge the nuances that already exist: Some men in public life have been accused of different levels of predation. They’ve suffered varying levels of employment loss as a result. And we have no idea what their long-term “sentences” look like, or if there will be any further consequences at all.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:04 AM on December 7, 2017 [37 favorites]


American Evangelism Looks Like an Apocalyptic Death-Cult

I mean, isn't a core belief of Christianity that the Second Coming is near? ...and been near for about 2000 years now?

“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away." Matt. 24:32-35

There's similar language in Mark and Luke.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:12 AM on December 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


One thing I find a bit odd about many of the concerns about Democrats "unilaterally disarming" on the issue of sexual predators in office is that it seems rooted in the belief that politicians who commit sexual assault are somehow beneficial and that by getting rid of them the Democratic party is harming itself.

I'm not seeing how getting sexual predators out of the Party is harmful to the Party, or how there's any particular advantage or benefit to keeping sexual predators around.

I can see the argument that in certain very specific circumstances there could be problems (a Democratic Senator in a state with a Republican governor, for example) [1], but some people seem to be arguing that in general there's benefit to having sexual predators around and we shouldn't just unilaterally rid our party of them unless Republicans also deprive themselves of the benefit these people see of keeping sexual predators around.

I recall in the arguments about cons some people seemed to have similar beliefs that there were, unspecified, advantages to having sexual predators on con staff and that permanently evicting sexual predators from the con staff would hurt the con. I'm doubtful they see advantage in sexual perdition itself, but they seem tot think that the sexual predators have some unique or very rare skillset that makes them so inherently valuable that getting rid of them would bring harm to the organization.

I think most people making this argument haven't really thought it through and they're just engaging in defense of the tribe/troop/pack/in-group/whatever.

Whatever temporary advantage might be held by keeping, hypothetically, Manchin (if he were found to be a sexual predator, so far no claims that he is exist so this is purely hypothetical) seems to me to be both very brief and damaging to the Democratic Party in the longer term.

We win, we have strength, by having women support the Party. Women are going to be a lot less willing to support a party that welcomes men who prey on them.

[1] Though in such cases I'd argue fuck it, get rid of the predators because it's the right thing to do, and anyway do you think they'll survive a reelection facing both the disadvantage of an electorate that voted in a Republican **AND** being known as a sexual predator? Their days are numbered no matter how you look at it, cut them loose and claim the moral high ground for future electoral advantage.
posted by sotonohito at 7:12 AM on December 7, 2017 [25 favorites]


Ana Marie Cox, Washington Post: Al Franken isn’t being denied due process. None of these famous men are.

I have this snippet which clarifies the issue.
There's a difference between (1) an allegation. (2) a CREDIBLE allegation, and (3) a PROVEN allegation.

For courts of law, you need to prove the allegation beyond a reasonable doubt. (3)

For courts of equity, you need to show the preponderance of evidence supports the allegation. (2)

Observe I haven't mentioned unsubstantiated allegations (1).

We NEED a standard for "Serve the public trust", and I want to live in a world where -- not AN allegation (1) -- but a CREDIBLE allegation (2) is enough to end your service/career/whatever.

Do you think Moore's accusers are CREDIBLE(2)? If so, he's unfit to serve the United States.
posted by mikelieman at 7:15 AM on December 7, 2017 [38 favorites]


> “It would be folly to assume that repeating the exact same formula would now produce a different or better result,” he said, calling his announcement “a long-overdue step to advance the peace process and work towards a lasting agreement.”

"My car won't start."
"Have you tried lighting the engine on fire?"
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:15 AM on December 7, 2017 [18 favorites]


Scott Dworkin‏
@funder
BREAKING: EVEN RUSSIA IS AGAINST TRUMP! Russia will criticize Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel in the United Nations Security Council, the RIA news agency cited Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Gennady Gatilov as saying on Thursday. #TrumpRussia @Reuters

Good times.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:17 AM on December 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


Meanwhile, in ongoing Olympics buzz, Skier Lindsey Vonn Says She Doesn't Want To Represent Donald Trump At the Olympics. She and other top skiers also say that they will not accept the standard White House invitation.

I can't wait to see some angry ragetweets calling for the cancellation of skiing and mocking NBC for "poor ratings" in its Olympic coverage.
posted by TwoStride at 7:19 AM on December 7, 2017 [29 favorites]


A Second Chance: This Amazing Organization Helps Disgraced Pedophiles Rebuild Their Lives By Getting Them Elected To Political Office
posted by Artw at 7:22 AM on December 7, 2017 [52 favorites]


leotrotsky: I mean, isn't a core belief of Christianity that the Second Coming is near? ...and been near for about 2000 years now?

Well... yes and no. There are branches that interpret those lines metaphorically and not literally. There are branches that even consider those to be interpolations by later authors and not the actual words of Christ.

(This is getting into derail territory so perhaps the Evangelical Death Cult should get it's own FPP?)
posted by ragtag at 7:22 AM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Well... yes and no. There are branches that interpret those lines metaphorically and not literally. There are branches that even consider those to be interpolations by later authors and not literally the words of Christ.


Without derailing further, sure, "It's complicated" is the correct answer to practically every question about religion, but calling Evangelical Christianity a "apocalyptic death cult" makes it sound like some crazy aberration. A lot of Christians have thought the end of the world was imminently coming for a very long time.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:30 AM on December 7, 2017


calling Evangelical Christianity a "apocalyptic death cult" makes it sound like some crazy aberration

Normalize apocalyptic death cults
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:31 AM on December 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


> This is an immensely satisfying essay: The Cool Kids' Philosopher (Nathan J. Robinson, Current Affairs).

I'm a bit late to this, but...what the everliving hell, NYT? That is some straight-up "both sides" bullshit that reads as a milquetoast attempt to legitimize a vile racist for mainstream readers.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:32 AM on December 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Peter Beinart in the Atlantic: "Trump's Jerusalem Plan Is a Deadly Provocation. The decision to recognize the city as Israel's capital increases the odds of violence because it deepens Palestinian despair."
Religious conflicts, like racial and ethnic ones, are critical to Trump’s appeal. He needs Mexican-Americans to rape and murder white girls. He needs African-American athletes to “disrespect the flag.” And he needs Muslims to explode bombs and burn American flags. The more threatening non-white, non-Christians appear, both at home and abroad, the more his supporters rely on him to keep the barbarians down and out. If Trump has to invent these dangers, he will. In the case of Jerusalem, however, he can go further: He can help create them.

posted by zarq at 7:37 AM on December 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


Mod note: Comment removed. A page-long holding-forth on why you think religion is bullshit etc. is fine for your personal blog but not a good addition to a politics catch-all.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:38 AM on December 7, 2017 [26 favorites]


sorry.
posted by sotonohito at 7:39 AM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


AP News: [Wisc Gov Scott] Walker asks Congress to renew children’s insurance program. It sends $115 million to Wisconsin to help cover nearly 118,000 children.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:40 AM on December 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


In "all forces are realigning" news, this Shaun King essay about the Atlanta mayor's race ran in the Intercept. The essay, which is short, boils down to "progressives/the left need to vote for the left-most-available candidate instead of sitting out elections, particularly in this case but more generally also", which as I understand it was not the position The Intercept was taking last year.

King is talking about how a not actually super-popular racist white mayoral candidate got out the racist white vote while the Black woman Democratic nominee, who was supported by the Democratic establishment, seemed to have trouble mobilizing people. As a result, the race was so close that there's going to be a recount, even though it's been ages and ages since there was a Republican mayor in Atlanta.

He seems to think that progressive trashing of the Democrat played enough of a role in the election to matter, given that the political climate and Atlanta's particular history could normally be assumed to give the Democrat an advantage.

IIRC, King just started writing regularly for the Intercept a few months ago.

This seems to me to show a possible....well, call it a "praxis realignment" toward "leftest available candidate" voting and toward the "every little bit helps" strategy, both of which seem very plausible to me. (By "every little bit helps" I mean that even if there are other flaws in the campaign that make getting out the vote difficult, and even if this is the fault of the campaign, it's still important to add your vote to the heap rather than step back.)

I find this article particularly useful because King is pointing toward Atlanta's particular history, not just an abstract "this is what progressives always do" argument. Having a right-wing mayor in Atlanta is going to do very clear, obvious harm and it's very clear that small amounts of votes make a difference in this election.

Shaun King is very worth following on the FB, too.
posted by Frowner at 7:47 AM on December 7, 2017 [49 favorites]


I like King's writing and admire the things he's done and works to do, but holy cow is he a perfect example, IMNSHO, of having to weigh the good someone does against the pain of dealing with their personality. I have lost count of the number of times I've seen him decide he's gonna pick a twitter fight with another lefty and keep on trying at it for days. I'm not talking about some sort of you have to tolerate their racist/sexist/whatever shit because they're a supposed ally, BS. I mean like deciding he's gonna go on the attack and not let up. I've almost unfollowed him a few times over it.
posted by phearlez at 7:52 AM on December 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


They also had extensive pre-inauguration contact with the Russians, among others, come to think of it...

I really want the next Democratic candidate to bring this up in a Presidential campaign debate. "Tradition is important. For example the previous 5 Republican administrations all illegally entered negotiations with foreign governments and interfered with the foreign policy of the United States. I would like to ask my opponent which country are they currently in negotiation with?"
posted by srboisvert at 7:56 AM on December 7, 2017 [32 favorites]


Do you think Moore's accusers are CREDIBLE

For a lot of people, only virgins who report their abuse immediately are credible. And for even more people, only those who agree with them politically are credible.

And for some people, women are never credible. There have been many times and places in history when the testimony of women was inadmissable in courts (or whatever formal proceedings played the role of courts in that culture.)

If we're going to have the standard that "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" is necessary to send someone to jail but only a "credible accusation" is required to fire someone from their job, then we're going to need to define "credible" in an objective way, and we're going to need to decide what level of wrong-doing is sufficiently serious to merit firing if one is credibly accused of it. (An affair? Hitting on someone at work? Touching someone's waist or face without permission? There are gray areas.)

I guess I would say I personally don't think a single accusation, denied by the accused, should be enough to ruin someone's career. While a woman's testimony should not count LESS than a man's, it also shouldn't count MORE.

I also don't think anonymous allegations should really count. (Though if the person wants to keep their name out of the press but is open about their identity to the employer, like Garrison Keillor's accusers, I think that is different from a truly anonymous allegation.) To make an anonymous allegation through a newspaper is way too easy. The cost is too low, and the benefit could be destroying the career of a political enemy. Accepting anonymous allegations as credible lowers the bar too much, makes it too easy for people to destroy careers at no cost to themselves, makes it too easy to lie, since the stories can't be checked.

I would propose this standard for "credible accusations": if more than one woman comes forward, on the record, and their stories are substantially similar then their testimony should be considered stronger evidence than the testimony of the single man who is denying it. Or if a single woman comes forward and has evidence beyond her own account of what happened -- like a photo or a stained dress or a signed yearbook! -- that should count more than the man's denial as well.

I think it's pretty easy to apply this standard to most of the people who are being accused right now, and see that they deserve to go (at least if you believe the behavior they are accused of is sufficiently bad to merit that punishment!)

But even this standard has some gray areas... I can't decide how credible Bill Clinton's accusers were by this standard, since I'm not sure whether their accusations are substantially similar to each other or not (in particular Wiley and Broadderick) and since they seem to have at times contradicted themselves.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:57 AM on December 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Tweet- Announcement by Senator Al Franken from Senate floor at 10:45 AM. I presume it's central time
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:57 AM on December 7, 2017


Zeus: yes, CSPAN has this happening at 11:45 EST.
posted by prefpara at 7:59 AM on December 7, 2017


Scott Dworkin‏
@funder
BREAKING: EVEN RUSSIA IS AGAINST TRUMP! Russia will criticize Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel in the United Nations Security Council, the RIA news agency cited Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Gennady Gatilov as saying on Thursday. #TrumpRussia @Reuters

Good times.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:17 AM on December 7 [3 favorites +] [!]

That's particularly interesting in light of Russia's acknowledgement of West Jerusalem as the Israeli capital while leaving East Jerusalem as the eventual capital of a future Palestinian state.

That happened with little fanfare back in April: according to Times of Israel, even the Israelis were surprised by it. I suppose this Russian opposition based around the unavoidable fact that the two-state solution is completely dead if the whole of Jerusalem becomes the capital.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 8:02 AM on December 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


The essay, which is short, boils down to "progressives/the left need to vote for the left-most-available candidate instead of sitting out elections, particularly in this case but more generally also", which as I understand it was not the position The Intercept was taking last year.

Better late than never?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:18 AM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


I would propose this standard for "credible accusations": if more than one woman comes forward, on the record, and their stories are substantially similar then their testimony should be considered stronger evidence than the testimony of the single man who is denying it. Or if a single woman comes forward and has evidence beyond her own account of what happened -- like a photo or a stained dress or a signed yearbook! -- that should count more than the man's denial as well.

I believe that's substantially similar to the civil standard, preponderance of evidence that I advocate, so we're in agreement that a denial isn't sufficient to resolve the issue.

Additionally, I've had some ideas that OSHA should be promulgating a standard to protect workers' health and safety...
posted by mikelieman at 8:19 AM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Frowner: "King is talking about how a not actually super-popular racist white mayoral candidate"

She's lost two consecutive mayoral elections by like 0.5% each. She may not be good, but she seems reasonably popular.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:35 AM on December 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


(Wisconsin) Lawmaker removed from committees after allegedly kissing women without consent. (Democratic) State Rep. Josh Zepnick has been stripped of his Assembly committee posts after allegations became public that he drunkenly kissed two women without their consent.
posted by drezdn at 8:41 AM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Link to the WaPo livestream on YouTube for the Franken announcement, in case that CSPAN site also doesn't work for you
posted by lazaruslong at 8:45 AM on December 7, 2017


Where are the R accusations? I'm not talking about any conspiracies against Dems here, but this tidal wave is starting to seem oddly headed towards one side of the beach.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:49 AM on December 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


Watching Franken on CSPAN now. If you were waiting to tune in, he has begun.
posted by prefpara at 8:52 AM on December 7, 2017


Thank you for saying that, Room 641-A. It seems like the Dems are successfully shaming everyone into resigning, while the Rs just sit back and laugh. It doesn't seem right.
posted by Melismata at 8:53 AM on December 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


The Rs have collectively decided that committing sexual assault and harassment makes one a good candidate, positive role model, and “one of us”. Therefore, it isn’t a problem. The end.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:55 AM on December 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


PSA: If you are a Mefite in Idaho, please sign and return this petition to get Medicaid expansion on the ballot.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:56 AM on December 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


What I mean is, besides Roy Moore, no one is coming out on their side.

I'd say maybe those women are being paid off except by accusing them of doing that it also implies those women aren't serious, and I don't want to do that. So not so much what we're doing vs what they are doing, but what we have to respond to vs what they do, which is zero.

The Rs have collectively decided that committing sexual assault and harassment makes one a good candidate, positive role model, and “one of us”. Therefore, it isn’t a problem. The end.

No, Roy Moore's accusers are very brave. Many R women also said #metoo about their past. Are the R women just very scared to ride this wave?
posted by Room 641-A at 8:59 AM on December 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Ana Marie Cox, Washington Post: Al Franken isn’t being denied due process. None of these famous men are.

I keep seeing people say the whole #MeToo "movement" is an overreaction, that all these guys are being treated the same, and that we're losing perspective. That every old offense is going to be met with firing and public banishment.

And the thing is, yes: movements like this can go too far, they can be co-opted (hello, Republican hypocrisy), they can wind up hurting the people they're initially meant to protect. All of that is, y'know, possible.

Yet we haven't seen that. There's no lost perspective here. Every one of these high-profile abusers has been incredibly gross with multiple women. We're talking about rapists and assaulters and dudes who have destroyed women's careers. Franken may be the least-bad and yet look how many accusers he has, look at how clearly in the wrong he was again and again. The "least bad" is still really gross. We have not once run up against somebody who just told some off-color jokes and felt bad for it, or somebody who is just bad at flirting (but apologizes like someone who is simply bad at flirting would do!).

This isn't "she caught me checking out her ass and I feel bad for that" territory. Tell me about lost perspective when we reach that point. Until then, I say we keep building this bonfire. This shit has gone on for far, far too long.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:00 AM on December 7, 2017 [37 favorites]


Where are the R accusations?

Smug Breitbarter: "They've all been debunked."*

* where "debunked" equates to "the accused says it didn't happen and the accuser doesn't have video proof, DNA evidence and six corroborating witnesses"
posted by delfin at 9:01 AM on December 7, 2017


To be honest, we'll just have to see how it plays out. It's a good time for a house cleaning anyway. Even if it isn't to our electoral advantage (I think it will be), it is certainly worth removing harassers from our party is for no other reason than to make Democratic offices safe for women to work in.

Either way, I'm happy.
posted by wierdo at 9:02 AM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Franken reaffirms that he thinks it's important and good that women are coming forward, and supports that. He also maintains that some of the allegations against him are false, and others he remembers differently. Also that the ethics committee is the right next step. He describes himself as a champion of women and someone who has used his power to help women. He says that nothing he has done as a senator has dishonored this institution. But he will resign in the coming weeks.

My read of his tone is that he is bitter about this and thinks it's a mistake.

As for Moore, who has the full support of his party... yeah, Franken is very unhappy about that, and notes the irony.

He says this comes down to his inability to continue to be an effective senator for the people of Minnesota. He will continue to use his voice and be an activist. He regrets walking away from this job with so much work left undone.

Now a long list of people he wants to express faith in, or to thank. And some nice words about how wonderful Minnesota is.

In closing, he has some thoughts about people getting involved in politics right now, and that being good. I'm tuning out.
posted by prefpara at 9:02 AM on December 7, 2017 [39 favorites]


Where are the R accusations?

I think that Weinstein and #metoo had different effects on social dynamics in lefty groups vs conservative groups. I tried testing this (in an admittedly flawed way) by posting surveys to Facebook targeted to liberal and conservative subsets of my friends. Liberals engaged with the survey *much* more and reported seeing more #metoo posts than conservatives did. In comments about #metoo, conservative women in my social groups were more fatalistic or minimizing than liberal women.

It is possible that Dem women (who happen to work with Dem men) are just more likely to speak out.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:03 AM on December 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


It's not like riding this wave is suddenly pleasant, Room. Everyone coming forward, particularly anyone coming forward against the Moores and Trumps who lash back, gets pummelled. Nobody watching the Moore situation is unaware of that.

If you need a good reason to accept what could be a (hopefully temporary) political cost to the Dems for taking this seriously when the Rs don't, that should be all you need: it demonstrates to everyone who might get the Moore abuse treatment that there are indeed people who have their back and take these things seriously. Maybe that means there's gonna be some trailing behind when it comes to R accusations.

Or maybe they'll never come. This is another cause on which I'd rather be right than expedient.
posted by phearlez at 9:03 AM on December 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


BREAKING: EVEN RUSSIA IS AGAINST TRUMP!

This misreads Putin's playbook on a fundamental level. Putin believes politics is a zero-sum game and allies are clients, not partners—for Russia to succeed, America must fail. Putin's own interests come first, then those of the oligarchs who make up his inner circle, but Trump isn't even in Putin's outer circle. He'll be for Trump if he thinks it will weaken America, and he'll against him if he thinks it will weaken America, that's all.

Slate's Dahlia Lithwick: The Uneven Playing Field "Sure, don’t stoop to their level. But let’s acknowledge that the game Republicans are forcing everyone to play insists morality is for losers."

Amanda Marcotte‏ @AmandaMarcotte, writing in response to Lithwick:
Part of the problem is that the political press decided that hypocrisy is the only transgression they will police. The GOP realized that if you have no values, you cannot be called a hypocrite.

I suppose Democrats, too, could simply choose not to have any values, either. But I don’t know that people would believe them, so the hypocrisy charge would cling.

So the best they can do is not be hypocrites and instead get more proactive about calling out Republican immorality. It’s not hopeless. Voters hate Trump. It just isn’t going to result in instant gratification and we have to learn to live with that.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:05 AM on December 7, 2017 [23 favorites]


What I mean is, besides Roy Moore, no one is coming out on their side.

Blake Farenthold. His future is in question. The GOP hasn't forced him out yet.

I'd say maybe those women are being paid off except by accusing them of doing that it also implies those women aren't serious, and I don't want to do that.

'Aren't serious'? You'd be implying they are either lying about sexual harassment and assault or cravenly using something that happened to them for political gain.

Why even speculate in that direction?
posted by zarq at 9:07 AM on December 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Here's why it's so important for the Democratic Party to eject harassers: The party's most consistent, enthusiastic supporters are women. Women staff Democratic Congressional offices; women fill the chairs and light up the phones as volunteers during campaign season. Women--particularly women of color--are the backbone of the Democratic party. All those Democratic dudes in Congress are elected and supported by women. Therefore, women must be free of harassment by anyone who would purport to represent our interests in the political arena.

Failing to clean house means that the party's most valuable asset--women volunteers will be less likely to show up. Failing to protect the interests* (again) of the most dedicated party supporters would be a grave mistake.

* Yes, I know about the absolutely asinine decision to allow forced-birth candidates by the DCCC.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:08 AM on December 7, 2017 [69 favorites]


Lewandowski: Actually, We All Steamed Trump’s Trousers While He Wore Them
Camerota also asked Lewandowski about what he said Trump would order for dinner from McDonald’s: “two Big Macs, two Fillet-O-Fish, and a chocolate malted.”

“When the President would order for dinner two Big Macs, two Filet-o-Fish sandwiches and a chocolate milkshake and eat all of that, were you concerned about him?” Camerota asked.

“Well, he never ate the bread, which is the important part,” Lewandowski replied.
Can you really get malts at McDonald's?
posted by kirkaracha at 9:09 AM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


It is a mistake. Tweeden's got too many shady connections to Roger Stone and Hannity and a past as a public Birther. I want her under oath in an ethics investigation.

There is literally photographic evidence of him jokingly treating her like a thing to be groped while she is asleep, rather than as a human being deserving of respect.
posted by zarq at 9:10 AM on December 7, 2017 [39 favorites]


Where are the R accusations?

Barton - Not running for re-election
Farenthold - "I didn't do anything wrong."
posted by zakur at 9:11 AM on December 7, 2017


Room 641-A: "What I mean is, besides Roy Moore, no one is coming out on their side."

Well, there's this:
The speaker of Kentucky's House of Representatives has stepped down amid a sexual harassment scandal unfolding in the state legislature. Three other Republican lawmakers have also been implicated.
and this:
Six women who work in Florida’s Capitol say the state Senate’s powerful budget chairman, Republican gubernatorial candidate Jack Latvala, has inappropriately touched them without their consent or uttered demeaning remarks about their bodies.
and this:
Rep. Blake Farenthold, R-Texas, says he promises to pay back taxpayers for funds from a special congressional account he used to pay a harassment settlement back in 2013.
and lots more in this story.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:11 AM on December 7, 2017 [35 favorites]


This is another cause on which I'd rather be right than expedient.

In my opinion, it seems that getting rid of all the Dems in Congress gives the Rs there, incompetent as they are, more opportunities, not less, to push through their agenda which we keep screaming about.

I have no objection to cleaning house. I just worry that we're cutting off our nose to spite our face.
posted by Melismata at 9:11 AM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


If you need a good reason to accept what could be a (hopefully temporary) political cost to the Dems for taking this seriously when the Rs don't, that should be all you need

Huh? I never said anything about how the Dems are handling this, or how we are handling things vs the Rs. All I said is that I thought at least a few women would come out against R politicians.

It's not like riding this wave is suddenly pleasant, Room.

Do you really think that ever crossed my mind? If you do, it was never my intention.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:12 AM on December 7, 2017


I missed the full quote from Franken: "I of all people am aware that there is some irony in the fact that I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the oval office & a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the Senate."
posted by prefpara at 9:13 AM on December 7, 2017 [45 favorites]


Chrysostom: Well, there's this:

Thank you, Chrysostom. I'd forgotten about Farenthold, and the others you mention are exactly what I was I talking about, I just hadn't heard of them.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:14 AM on December 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


It is a mistake. Tweeden's got too many shady connections to Roger Stone and Hannity and a past as a public Birther. I want her under oath in an ethics investigation.

If this were Tweeden alone, I would not necessarily be inclined to say that he should resign, and I would be very slightly inclined to believe that although Franken harassed her, her decision to come forward could conceivably have been motivated by politics.

But more women came forward and said that he'd been pretty gross with them too, and the whole "I'm going to proposition you and then try to do you harm in petty ways if you turn me down" thing that Tweeden describes is just so common. I mean, I'd believe Kellyanne Conway if she had a similar story and photo, and she's a total liar.
posted by Frowner at 9:15 AM on December 7, 2017 [27 favorites]


Eight women have come forth with accusations against Al Franken. Eight. Not one. So I think we can put aside any conspiracy theories - after all, the whole point of #metoo is to believe women when they step forward.

We need to clean house. We need to make women feel welcome and safe in the Democratic party. This can only make us stronger in the long run. Maybe if we have fewer hypocrites and harassers and just generally two-faced people in our party, Dems will get up off their goddamn couches in midterm elections and go vote - which is really what will save us.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:16 AM on December 7, 2017 [66 favorites]


What I mean is, besides Roy Moore, no one is coming out on their side.

Besides Roy Moore and Donald Trump (and Farenthold and Barton and a bunch of state legislators) there's Roger Ailes and Bill O'Reilly. I think you could argue that they had more influence over Republican policies than most Republican politicians, and they were among the first to be accused in this wave of accusations.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:16 AM on December 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


But more women came forward and said that he'd been pretty gross with them too

Blaming Tweeden is kind of like blaming her for opening the gates. I don't think it's wrong to question her connections, but none of that negates the other women.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:18 AM on December 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


If this were Tweeden alone, I would not necessarily be inclined to say that he should resign, and I would be very slightly inclined to believe that although Franken harassed her, her decision to come forward could conceivably have been motivated by politics.

Such bullshit.

When someone says that they have been sexually harassed (and in this case offers photographic evidence of the guy treating them like an object) our default position should be to believe them, not cast doubt on their account because someone we happen to like has been accused. We shouldn't require additional victims to come forward before we will believe them.

This same garbage attitude shows up in popular culture and all over threads about harassment on mefi. Especially when it comes to children who have been sexually abused.
posted by zarq at 9:19 AM on December 7, 2017 [31 favorites]


Can you really get malts at McDonald's?

You can't, and I don't see any evidence that McDonald's ever sold malts. Assuming it's an accurate quote, then it's more evidence of Trump a) being stuck in an imagined past and b) having a terrible sense of taste, if he can't tell that a milkshake doesn't contain any malt powder.

I wonder if he doesn't eat the gummy McDonald's bread because it sticks to his dentures...
posted by jedicus at 9:20 AM on December 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


When someone says that they have been sexually harassed (and in this case offers photographic evidence of the guy treating them like an object) our default position should be to believe them, not cast doubt on their account because someone we happen to like has been accused. We shouldn't require additional victims to come forward before we will believe them.

Frowner didn't say anything about not believing Tweeden in this hypothetical. They said that Tweeden's accusation alone might not have been sufficient to call for Franken to resign, and that it might have been conceivable that she was politically motivated in coming forward (not that the accusation was false).
posted by jedicus at 9:22 AM on December 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'm sitting in the lobby of the Florida Capitol in the rotunda. (I am a lobbyist, so this is what I do.) There are TVs in here, usually tuned in to committee hearings or other Florida government goings-on. Senator Al Franken is on instead right now, making a speech that I can't quite hear because of a noisy kids tour. I assume he is, as expected, resigning. And I'm glad he is. I was a fan of his tv career, books, and thought he was a great US Senator. And yet, good riddance. There seems to be just as much evidence that Franken is a gropey, grabby garbage-person as there is that Roy Moore molested children.

Twenty minutes ago, there was a reporter taping a segment about allegations made by several women, most anonymous but one who bravely came forward, that Florida State Senator Jack Latvala (R) sexually harassed or assaulted them. His office is a three minute walk from where I am sitting. He is fighting these charges tooth-and-nail, including a horrendous smear campaign against the accuser who let her name be used.

Senator Latvala is one of the few Republicans who consistently votes right on the environmental issues that I lobby for. He has co-sponsored an important bill that I am working on, for two years in a row. He is running for Governor of Florida, and before these allegations came out he would likely have been one of the very few Republicans I have ever voted for. If he resigns, his important committee and floor votes on my bill will be gone. He will never resign without being forced. But that looks somewhat likely.

Earlier this year, Senator Jeff Clemens (D) resigned from the Florida Senate. This is the most wholesome story in the bunch - he merely had a consensual, extramarital affair with a lobbyist. I mean, that's a pretty severe ethical problem, but at least they were both consenting adults. Sen. Clemens had an office that looked like what a 16 year old boy would dream of having. Neon lights, a Galaga machine, an electric guitar. I never could take him seriously as a legislator because of that. He kept a fully stocked liquor bar in his office as well. He's a well-kinown teetotaler. That's somewhat skeevy to me. But as far as I know he's not a child molester or serial-groper.

This poison runs deep through all systems. None of these rich, powerful men are really behaving any different from about a million restaurant-managers that I've had to work with when I was a cook. The main difference is they end up on TV for it now.
posted by Cookiebastard at 9:23 AM on December 7, 2017 [34 favorites]


Frowner didn't say anything about not believing Tweeden in this hypothetical.

My comment was accurate.

She's questioning why Tweeden came forward. She's saying that if it were only Tweeden, she wouldn't be inclined to believe the veracity of her claims.

Fuck. That. Noise. Who gives a damn WHY people come forward? They should be allowed to do so without being interrogated or to have to pass some bullshit political litmus test. And to repeat: We should not be giving in to the worst of rape culture simply because we happen to like the accuser.
posted by zarq at 9:25 AM on December 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


it might have been conceivable that she was politically motivated in coming forward (not that the accusation was false).

Tom Arnold: Tweeden was coached by a Roger Stone ally.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:26 AM on December 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


I think it's actually impossible to satisfactorily litigate the Tweeden incident given the backdrop, but the above board option is for Franken to go at any rate.

It is entirely possible to accept the accounts of Tweeden and Franken's other accusers and to believe that Roger Stone & co. put out a political hit on Franken and have now successfully collected his scalp.

Franken's paid the political price for his misdeeds. Is Roger Stone going to get away with his rat-fuckery again?
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:26 AM on December 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


Virginia House of Delegates update:
Virginia Democrats formally requested a court-ordered special election for the 28th District House of Delegates seat after revelations that more than 100 voters in the Fredericksburg region cast ballots in the wrong House race.

Attorneys for the House Democratic Caucus filed court papers late Wednesday afternoon asking a federal judge to require a special election between Democrat Joshua Cole and Republican Del.-elect Bob Thomas, who won by just 82 votes on Nov. 7. They also requested federal court orders preventing Thomas from being seated in January and requiring the State Board of Elections to withdraw its certification of the results.
This is separate from the recounts in four HDs.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:27 AM on December 7, 2017 [16 favorites]


I'm sitting in the lobby of the Florida Capitol in the rotunda. (I am a lobbyist, so this is what I do.)

I guess that makes me a couchist.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:28 AM on December 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


our default position should be to believe them, [...] Especially when it comes to children who have been sexually abused.

Oh geez, that just gave me flashbacks to the Satanic Panic and the "recovered memory" daycare abuse allegations. That story should be a warning about the risks of "our default position should be to believe them."

I've always understood "believe women" to mean "believe women just as much as you do men." Treat "he said / she said" stories the same way you would treat "he said / he said" stories. Treat allegations of sexual assault the same way you would treat allegations of other bullying behaviors.

I won't repeat my suggestions for standards as to what makes an allegation credible since I just wrote that long comment, but I think our standards have to be high enough to avoid another Satanic Panic situation, for sure.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:28 AM on December 7, 2017 [27 favorites]


Oh geez, that just brought back flashbacks to the Satanic Panic and the "recovered memory" daycare abuse allegations. That story should be a warning about the risks of "our default position should be to believe them."

Gosh, it's good to see people here taking valuable lessons from the #metoo movement. *eyeroll*
posted by zarq at 9:30 AM on December 7, 2017 [20 favorites]


Roger Stone & co. put out a political hit on Franken

uh no, franken did that to himself when he sexually assaulted multiple women. he should've resigned days ago. there is literally no good reason for him to have waited this long, let alone stayed in office
posted by burgerrr at 9:30 AM on December 7, 2017 [32 favorites]


When someone says that they have been sexually harassed (and in this case offers photographic evidence of the guy treating them like an object) our default position should be to believe them, not cast doubt on their account because someone we happen to like has been accused. We shouldn't require additional victims to come forward before we will believe them.

I didn't put that well. I absolutely believe Tweeden's account. What I was trying to say was "it might feel both safer and politically less crushing to talk about harassment by a political enemy, where talking about sexual harassment by a powerful person in your own party might seem both dangerous and useless, plus an admission that your party is full of terrible people". Not that this would justify casting doubt on Tweeden's account.

I was thinking of KellyAnne Conway and it occurred to me "she's a monster, but I bet she's also been harassed by people in her own party and does not feel that it would be possible to be open about this".

I apologize for saying that so badly.
posted by Frowner at 9:31 AM on December 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


Franken's paid the political price for his misdeeds. Is Roger Stone going to get away with his rat-fuckery again?

What would it look like if Stone didn't get away with ratfucking the Democratic Party again in this case?
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 9:31 AM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Oh geez, that just gave me flashbacks to the Satanic Panic and the "recovered memory" daycare abuse allegations. That story should be a warning about the risks of "our default position should be to believe them."

You are in a room with people who were sexually molested during those years and never went through recovered memories. Some of us were actually molested by people claiming satanism/assorted things. Many children were abused and disbelieved because of this. Perhaps you can be a little more careful and a lot less shitty when you bring up the topic.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 9:32 AM on December 7, 2017 [31 favorites]


Franken's paid the political price for his misdeeds. Is Roger Stone going to get away with his rat-fuckery again?

I loathe Roger Stone as much as anyone, but "That asshole needs to pay for convincing a woman to come forward about her sexual assault" is maybe not the best position to take.
posted by Roommate at 9:32 AM on December 7, 2017 [25 favorites]


I'm seeing lots of warm and fuzzy quotes from Franken's resignation speech, but no seems to be talking about the fact that he basically denied doing anything wrong:
I was excited for that conversation and hopeful that it would result in real change that made life better for women all across the country and in every part of our society. Then the conversation turned to me. Over the last few weeks a number of women have come forward to talk about how they felt my actions had affected them.

I was shocked. I was upset. But in responding to their claims, I also wanted to be respectful of that broader conversation because all women deserve to be heard and their experiences taken seriously. I think that was the right thing to do. I also think it gave some people the false impression that I was admitting to doing things that, in fact, I haven’t done. Some of the allegations against me are simply not true. Others, I remember very differently.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:33 AM on December 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


If anything, it illustrates that people are complex and that issues are complicated. Al Franken has been an excellent senator and a tireless advocate for our general welfare, and he inappropriately touched women on many occasions. A bunch of other people are politically motivated, desirous of fame and fortune or not, Republicans or Democrats, sketchy people or pillars of the community, and they have been inappropriately touched by people in positions of power over them. Nobody is 100% credible or non-credible.

The bottom line is that when you hold office, you shouldn’t risk your position by doing things that would get you thrown out. Especially not when your opponents are merciless opportunists who will happily lie for their own and throw you under the bus before driving over you with it. Democrats forget this at all of our peril, and God knows why, because this nail has been hammered by the GOP since Bill Clinton was first elected. If you’re a Democrat in office, you can’t afford to fuck around! It doesn’t matter why someone comes forward to damage your credibility if the accusation is true.

I find it completely outrageous that Franken was stupid enough to continue this behavior when so much is riding on him maintaining his seat. Infuriating.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:34 AM on December 7, 2017 [17 favorites]


Where are the R accusations? I'm not talking about any conspiracies against Dems here, but this tidal wave is starting to seem oddly headed towards one side of the beach.

I expect that we will see many more D side accounts and accusations then Rs at this juncture. The R side, both social and political has made it very, very clear that none of their guys can do anything wrong and that they will go out of their way to attack anyone who dares bring trouble. They only care if it's the other guy, on the other side that's accused.

This year has made it more likely that an accusation from the more D/liberal side of the aisle will be listened to and taken seriously. Still have to deal with tons of BS but not like on the R side. Couple this with tribalism and you're gonna get less woman feeling that they can speak up.

Not sure if ironic is the right word but in one sense more D accusations and accounts is evidence of some progress. Unfortunately it will be used as 'evidence' that Ds are more likely to harass and assault women. When this happens the pushback needs to be, 'No we're just better at acknowledging and holding our guys to account.'
posted by Jalliah at 9:34 AM on December 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


Mod note: Y'all we're getting a little chattery and a little bit heated in here; maybe everybody put the brakes on a bit, skip the further close analysis of Trump's masticatory tendencies, and try to figure a line on discussion of the Franken stuff that doesn't spool out into a pretty big argument-all-over-again about stuff we've already gone around on a few times.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:36 AM on December 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


The Republicans put a hit out on Franken and he clearly fucked up enough that he opened himself up to the hit. There's a reason they couldn't manage similar with Obama.

Both things can be true! Just like it can be true that we should take allegations of sexual abuse seriously which means investigating them to uphold the rights of the accused while respecting the possible victims.

These aren't difficult concepts.
posted by asteria at 9:36 AM on December 7, 2017 [20 favorites]


If you don't want victims outing your abuse and/or harassment of them in inopportune times, keep your hands to yourself and don't be a disgusting creep. Victims have the right to be messy and shitty and do things for the wrong reason. The abuser is the one that handed them that weapon.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 9:40 AM on December 7, 2017 [42 favorites]


There's a reason they couldn't manage similar with Obama.


One of my favorite and most frustrating moments of the 2016 campaign, for so many reasons, was Trump asking "Why doesn’t some woman maybe come up and say what they say falsely about me, they could say about [Obama]?"
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 9:43 AM on December 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


What would it look like if Stone didn't get away with ratfucking the Democratic Party again in this case?

For instance, Stone's currently defending himself in a defamation trial in which he's accused of being behind a flier that calling 2010 New York gubernatorial candidate Warren Redlich a sexual “predator.” Do we seriously think this guy doesn't have a whole cemetery's worth of skeleton's in his closet? Why can't the Dems ever go on the offensive against this kind of opposition?

And in the meantime, though, Stone's still loose in the rightwing fever swamps to spread conspiracy theories about Robert Mueller that will eventually work their way up through the Fox News ecosystem to reach mainstream Republicans.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:43 AM on December 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


Wondering if someone can make sense of something related to the Jerusalem decision...

Alt-right folks tend to be obsessed with the idea that the US government is "occupied" by Zionists. How are they not freaking out about the Jerusalem decision? Wouldn't this indicate that Trump is part of the imaginary Zionist conspiracy?
posted by duoshao at 9:45 AM on December 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


the Franken speech seemed to me to be boiled down to, "this bullshit has made my job impossible, so I'm stepping down." Which to Alabama voters might be, "these bullshit accusations won't take down a real man like Moore he just has to withstand the flames of his persecutions etc."

Implying that the women were lying or coached is giving Moore some cover. Maybe it wouldn't matter, regardless. But I can pretty easily see somebody who is into the Trump brand rationalizing a vote for Moore is okay because look at these lying liars who are women and also liars
posted by angrycat at 9:47 AM on December 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


One of the people who assaulted me was a semi-famous person who mentored me when I was younger. The worst assault happened when I was mature, he was old, and it included a spiked drink, Cosby style. But before that, for many years, he never missed a chance to grope, kiss, or verbally assault me. I know he did this to others too. And BTW, if he were alive today, he would deny everything.
He was brilliant, charming, leftist, much beloved and probably a serial rapist.
To this day, I haven't said or done anything about it because of his wife (now widow) and family, all of whom I care for. But I must admit that I feel personally liberated by the #metoo movement, and while I always fear a witch hunt situation, that is not what I feel is happening re.: Al Franken. Franken reminds me so much/too much of the guy who assaulted me.

Maybe I mentioned this in another thread, but in spite of the age gap (25-30 years), I am quite close friends with a couple of his close friends, and I have actually discussed it with one of them. He agrees that assault-guy has always been off, and that it was maybe due to some sort of inferiority complex. So it's not like nobody noticed, everyone noticed. Until recently it was acceptable, and that was why these men did it. Except, it wasn't really acceptable at all, ever. They got away with it, because what they did was so shameful that no one knew how to deal with it.
posted by mumimor at 9:47 AM on December 7, 2017 [64 favorites]


Just like it can be true that we should take allegations of sexual abuse seriously which means investigating them to uphold the rights of the accused while respecting the possible victims.

These aren't difficult concepts.

They are. The reality is that sexual harassment and sexual assault cases are often not reported to the police. When they are, the perpetrator rarely sees the inside of a courtroom. Convictions are even rarer. The reason for this is that unless assault is reported immediately and evidence is available, AND the police don't refuse to take action, the case comes down to one person's word against the other. And our culture is more likely to blame the victim for what was done to her (or in rarer cases, him,) than punish a groper or even a rapist. There have been many cases of rape kits in this country that were collected and not processed. All of this prevents a victim from getting any justice.

Giving people the benefit of the doubt when they say they've been assaulted is the very least we should do. There have been dozens if not hundreds of women coming forward in recent weeks. Every last one of them deserves better than to have their accounts dismissed because we think the accusation is inconvenient. That includes Roy Moore's accusers and Al Franken's.
posted by zarq at 9:48 AM on December 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


Weaponizing skeletons in someone's closet is really hard to figure out morally.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:51 AM on December 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


I guess what bothers me about the way this Franken thing played out was that it feels like it really underlined that there are no actual processes and procedures in place for investigating allegations like this in the Senate, at least not any that people put any trust in at all.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding how this has gone down, but when he first said he was ready to be the subject of a misconduct investigation, I thought -good! That can be an example for all of us for how these kinds of of things can be handled: we can watch it play out, watch the process and the consequences, come out with a renewed faith in the system, and strengthen it in a way that means it might have the power to truly affect allegations against people like Moore and Trump: if we demonstrate that the system is muscular but also fair, it would be even harder for them to refuse to go through the process.

But now, with a resignation, it feels like a reaffirmation that the only thing enforcing these rules is the conscience of the abuser, his colleagues' willingness to put pressure on him, and his own ability to feel shame. That's garbage! It doesn't work! We can't depend on the willingness of abusers to acknowledge the legitimacy of the claims of their victims. That's absurd. We need a process, we need a system, we need a way of meting out justice not simply to the men who might be willing to step down, but to those who aren't, and even to those theoretical men who might be falsely accused. "Step down as soon as there's an accusation" isn't a workable system - not because it's not the right thing to do, but because it keeps all the power in the hands of the accused. In an ideal world, surely, there would have been a trustworthy system in place to deal with something like this, one that protected the vulnerable while also allowing for an investigation. I get that there isn't one in place right now, but isn't it our job to be trying to build one? I feel like we had a chance, with Franken, to show how a good, strong, transparent community could deal with these kinds of allegations, and we lost that chance.

Am I missing something?
posted by pretentious illiterate at 9:56 AM on December 7, 2017 [46 favorites]


Am I missing something?

The will of the constituents, both his own and those of his colleagues.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:59 AM on December 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Alt-right folks tend to be obsessed with the idea that the US government is "occupied" by Zionists. How are they not freaking out about the Jerusalem decision? Wouldn't this indicate that Trump is part of the imaginary Zionist conspiracy?

Issuing the caveat that this is a guess, albeit an educated one - I think the difference is the belief that the Zionists would be up for restoring Israel for their own sake, whereas Trump is trying to restore it for the benefit of the evangelicals, so it's okay.

....Or, it's a simple case of "not all alt-right folks think the same things."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:59 AM on December 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Alt-right folks tend to be obsessed with the idea that the US government is "occupied" by Zionists. How are they not freaking out about the Jerusalem decision?

Because they're either Evangelicals/Dominionists who believe they're doing God's will or they're hoping to really get the party started in the Middle East in the name of American Imperialism.

Or both!

But I can pretty easily see somebody who is into the Trump brand rationalizing a vote for Moore is okay because look at these lying liars who are women and also liars

They were going to rationalize their vote anyway.


They are. The reality is that sexual harassment and sexual assault cases are often not reported to the police. When they are, the perpetrator rarely sees the inside of a courtroom. Convictions are even rarer. The reason for this is that unless assault is reported immediately and evidence is available, AND the police don't refuse to take action, the case comes down to one person's word against the other. And our culture is more likely to blame the victim for what was done to her than punish a groper or even a rapist.

Which I know from my own experience. Not sure why I needed this explained to me but okay.
posted by asteria at 9:59 AM on December 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Wondering if someone can make sense of something related to the Jerusalem decision...

Alt-right folks tend to be obsessed with the idea that the US government is "occupied" by Zionists. How are they not freaking out about the Jerusalem decision? Wouldn't this indicate that Trump is part of the imaginary Zionist conspiracy?

I heard an analyst on the radio while driving (sorry no notes or names), and her theory was that the Trump/Kuschner/Saud plan is for Trump to put out this totally outrageous plan for an apartheid state where Israel has all of Jerusalem, and the Palestinians are to be further divided up into small unconnected "homelands". Then everyone flips out and there is drama and violence, and in rides the Saudi prince whatshisname on his white Arab stallion and offers a deal that is far better than the Trump one, but still far worse than anything ever contemplated.
Then (the plan says) the Palestinians capitulate, realizing that this is the best they will get, and there will be peace in the Middle East, specially after SA and Israel buddy up and bomb Iran.
So basically a version of bridge and tunnel real-estate dealers gone wild in the ME.
The host of the radio show asked the analyst if she thought this was feasible, and one could hear the crunch of her eye rolling all the way back into the brain. Painful. She did mention that the Palestinians might become even more aware of how no other Arab countries seem to give a damn about their fate, but this is hardly news, and regardless of the reasoning, it could only lead to more radicalization.
posted by mumimor at 10:00 AM on December 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Until recently it was acceptable, and that was why these men did it. Except, it wasn't really acceptable at all, ever. They got away with it, because what they did was so shameful that no one knew how to deal with it.

There was a history teacher in my middle school about whom it was an open secret that he liked to hold you on his lap, particularly if you were wearing a skirt that day. It was just accepted. The entire school knew. If that guy were not dead, he'd be teaching there, still. The default is to ignore this. Occasionally the national car will tilt up on two wheels for a moment or two during things like #MeToo or the Clarence Thomas hearings, and we make a big show, but then it'll slam right back down again and continue blazing along on all four wheels just as usual.

Franken still cannot get his head around the idea that his innocent busses and playful gooses were out of line. It was all in fun. He did not intend to intimidate anyone. He was just being his goofy avuncular self, just like that middle school history teacher. Nobody took offense and nobody was harmed, for all he knew. He thought it was all fine. Then suddenly it got redefined out from under him and he can't see it now the way a whole lot of people who have kept silent for recorded history have always seen it. Perhaps he'll never see it that way. Perhaps people who have been speaking will go silent again and everybody will go back to seeing it his way.
posted by Don Pepino at 10:01 AM on December 7, 2017 [59 favorites]


Just like it can be true that we should take allegations of sexual abuse seriously which means investigating them to uphold the rights of the accused

I'm gonna give a fuck about the "right" of people to keep their big-power political job in the face of a half-dozen allegations of assault as soon as almost every other damned job in this country isn't employment at will. Our standards for how little it takes to deny someone a job (past criminal misdeeds they've done their time for, bad credit, ugly hair) or fire someone (shareholders need another $0.01 of value this quarter) in every other venue seem to allow for replacing pretty much everyone for pretty much every reason.

Yet somehow you get to be a cop, a CEO, or a politician (on our side, of course) and suddenly oh how will they provide for their family and well we need to be sure due process is respected. Fuuuuuuuuuuuck that. For the majority of our country's history there was a de facto requirement you be a christian white dude to hold office. You still can't be honestly atheist. Used to be having taken a perfectly legal draft deferment was a major detriment.

So if we want to now be just as fussy, but about the idea that someone needs to be pretty damned credibly not someone who just plays grab-ass when the urge strikes them? I can live with that. World's got a lot of people who aren't under that cloud. Let's employ them for a change.
posted by phearlez at 10:02 AM on December 7, 2017 [54 favorites]


Weaponizing skeletons in someone's closet is really hard to figure out morally.

And that's why Stone, who has no morals, is so good at it.

Seriously, though, if the DNC has any rat-fuckers of their own, they need to talk to Ann Stone, Roger's estranged ex-wife, ASAP. If she hasn't got a tale to tell, I'll eat a cake.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:04 AM on December 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Which I know from my own experience.

As do I.

Not sure why I needed this explained to me but okay.

Because you're suggesting that victims rely on an already broken system and culture that is rigged against them ever seeing their attackers held accountable.
posted by zarq at 10:04 AM on December 7, 2017


Matt Yglesias dives into realpolitik, and I think it's worth chewing on. We need a healthier conversation about partisanship and sexual assault
But American society is deeply hostile to the idea that it often makes perfect sense to elect the worse person if he agrees with you on the issues. Partisanship is a dirty word in American politics, even as growing partisan polarization means it makes more sense for citizens to vote as partisans. Consequently, Alabama Republicans face massive psychological pressure to come up with some reason other than frank partisanship to explain why they’re willing to vote for a man accused by many women of sexually abusing them as teens. The result is most of them have decided to reject the women’s stories as lies.

Ironically, pressure to avoid overt partisanship in voting behavior instead creates a disturbing partisan epistemology. Republicans are embracing an absurd conspiracy theory in which George Soros and the Washington Post are orchestrating a smear campaign against Moore. Democrats, meanwhile, are calling them hypocrites for calling on liberals like Franken to resign. It would be healthier if Alabama voters could just admit that they want a Republican — any Republican — even if Moore is an abuser. Then they could commit to doing the sensible thing and ditching Moore as soon as the alternative to Moore isn’t a Democrat, just as Democrats are cleaning house by replacing Franken and John Conyers with other Democrats.

We’d ultimately build a healthier political culture if we admitted that partisanship is okay — complete with a tolerable dose of hypocrisy.
posted by zachlipton at 10:09 AM on December 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


My brain cannot coexist in a universe where Tom Arnold is relevant.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:09 AM on December 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


Alt-right folks tend to be obsessed with the idea that the US government is "occupied" by Zionists. How are they not freaking out about the Jerusalem decision? Wouldn't this indicate that Trump is part of the imaginary Zionist conspiracy?

I feel like there are three different groups on the right with different takes on "Zionism". There's the evangelicals, with their creepy Zionist eschatological roleplay. Something which recognizes Israel's legitimacy and increases the likelihood of a cataclysmic, apocalyptic conflict in the area is a double win for them. There's the traditional militia crowd which has been kicking around since the 90's, the Christian Identity movement and their ideological compatriots. They're all about the Zionism conspiracy theories and I'm kind of surprised that they don't come into a lot more conflict with evangelicals --- from their point of view, I'd think the evangelicals would look like ZOG stooges. Finally, there's a hell of a lot of far-rightists these days who don't fit into either of these traditional boxes: white supremacists with no underlying faith justification, kleptocrats, channer reactionaries, and a mixed bag of other ideologies ranging from the self-interested to the disgustingly bigoted, but AFAICT these groups don't make a big thing about Zionism qua Zionism. A lot of them are virulently anti-Semitic, but not in a way which really buys into conspiracies about Zionism. To them, for instance, George Soros is dangerous because he's a rich Jew and a lie-beral who is helping the Other Team, not because he's an Elder of Zion fixated on the destruction of Christianity.

As mentioned above, I haven't heard much about Identity clashing with the evangelical right, and it sure seems like they should clash. But then, the Christian Identity movement seems to be being supplanted and diluted by other extremists, so mabe the whole "secret Zionist mesters of the world" conspiracy is being displaced by other right-wing toxicity.
posted by jackbishop at 10:11 AM on December 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


The will of the constituents, both his own and those of his colleagues.

But I don't want the will of the constituents to determine this. Even if it may have led to the right result in this instance. Because sometimes the will of the constituents is for abusers to be elected, and I want a system that can penalize even an abuser with 99.999% support. It's fine for Franken to step down. But I want to hear from every Senator who was vocal about his removal about what they're going to do about the people who aren't willing, because otherwise all they're doing is keeping the status quo.
posted by pretentious illiterate at 10:13 AM on December 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


To follow up on my earlier comment about Tweeden: On further reflection, my comment was a dumb direction to go, because in a situation that is in the news, where all I can know is what's in the news and where the political dynamics are news dynamics, using "could this be untrue/motivated" sends the conversation in the wrong direction.

This is not the same as if there were any actual reason to believe that someone had political motivation - reason meaning not "has this political affiliation" but "there is an email trail that has been reported in the news" or something. There is no reason to go there in this case except underlying bias against believing women.

I should not have brought "political motivation" into the conversation because unless there is actual, concrete and unambiguous evidence of the kind that you would submit in court, that's a dumb, wrong starting point. I won't do it again.

There were two big lies about sexual assault in my social milieu, one where the accuser admitted years later that it had not happened and one that fell apart of itself that was a false accusation by a cis woman of a trans woman. Seeing these things happen and participating in a community-wide shunning of the first person has affected my thinking on these issues, but I need to remember that there were only two of these situations and there were far, far more actual sexual assaults. It did really mess with me to find out about the first case, though, because I had basically led the shunning in my part of the social circle - for literally years I told people who had just met the accused that he was a rapist. And it turned out that this was a big lie, and I was conned into harming this person.
posted by Frowner at 10:13 AM on December 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


I hate to be clueless, but where are we in the tax cut process? Is it in conference?
posted by yoga at 10:13 AM on December 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Am I missing something?

"Immediately step down" and "opening an investigation" are not mutually exclusive options? Like, just because Franken stepped down, this does not preclude future investigations for future allegations. We should absolutely make it an automatic process to open an investigation into allegations like this for any sitting elected official, if that official doesn't step down of his own will.

But investigations take time, and what tends to happen in the meantime is exactly what happened to Franken - the drip, drip, drip of additional accusations. It's never just one. If the politician is absolutely adamant that they are innocent, then by all means, refuse to step down - and cooperate fully with the required investigation.

Franken had to know further accusations were coming. The initial one had photographic evidence, for fuck's sake. He should've stepped down immediately, not allow story after story of additional accusations to come out and give Republicans ammo against him and his party. It's a shame he waited as long as he did.

But the fact that he finally did has no impact on whether investigations should be standard, should be mandatory, in the future.
posted by Roommate at 10:14 AM on December 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


There's the traditional militia crowd which has been kicking around since the 90's, the Christian Identity movement and their ideological compatriots.

This is the group I was thinking of - the guys with the "88" tattoos. Why aren't they up in arms about Trump betraying them? I guess the simple answer is they throw the word Zionism around without knowing what it means.

I don't really consider evangelicals to be Alt-Right, just far right.
posted by duoshao at 10:16 AM on December 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


I won't do it again.

Thank you.
posted by zarq at 10:16 AM on December 7, 2017


Because you're suggesting that victims rely on an already broken system and culture that is rigged against them ever seeing their attackers held accountable.

I did not suggest any such thing. I expressed my belief that claims should be investigated. When it comes to our criminal justice system I truly believe in innocent until proven guilty. It's part of the reason I also support public defenders and oppose cops acting without impunity.

But the only thing I actually said was that those claims should be investigated. Though, as there are multiple accussers with similar stories and Franken has verified some of them I'm not sure why this is being discussed as if they're just accusations? We have photographic evidence.

I think what would help these conversations is if people interact with the actual text and not assume they know what other Mefites believe or know or what their experiences are. Given how pervasive sexual assault and especially sexual harassment are I bet there are a lot of survivors in this thread and we clearly don't have a hivemind when it comes to reacting to this news.
posted by asteria at 10:27 AM on December 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Me: I'd say maybe those women are being paid off except by accusing them of doing that it also implies those women aren't serious, and I don't want to do that.

zarq: 'Aren't serious'? You'd be implying they are either lying about sexual harassment and assault or cravenly using something that happened to them for political gain.

That's exactly what I mean, zarq. If you say that Rs paid them off (which I don't put past them trying) it also means that the women took the money. So I'm not willing to assume that's why we wouldn't hear from them. Does that make sense? It's because I do believe them that I ruled out "pay off" as a reason for not coming forward. Ugh. Text. I think we're in agreement here.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:27 AM on December 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Jacob S. Hacker and Paul Pierson, Vox: The GOP is trying to pass a super-unpopular agenda — and that's a bad sign for democracy
Political science (and common sense) says they ought to pay a price at the polls. They might not.
Reasons aside from gerrymandering include a political system that rewards holding territory, 'negative partisanship' built around hatred of the other, a talent for distracting voters, and sustained monetary support of candidates.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:29 AM on December 7, 2017 [20 favorites]


Michael Trujillo (longtime CA Democratic operative): SOURCES: @CNN and @washingtonpost working on exposing 20-30 congressional members 4 sexual harassment. #DC
posted by zachlipton at 10:30 AM on December 7, 2017 [44 favorites]


Alexia Fernandez Campbell, Vox: Female senators took down Al Franken. This is why we need more women in office.
The impact of women in Congress goes far beyond their role in addressing sexual harassment.

Research shows that female members of Congress are more likely than men to co-sponsor bills related to women's health, regardless of their political party. They also change how society thinks about women, and how girls view themselves.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:30 AM on December 7, 2017 [64 favorites]


pretentious illiterate: "But now, with a resignation, it feels like a reaffirmation that the only thing enforcing these rules is the conscience of the abuser, his colleagues' willingness to put pressure on him, and his own ability to feel shame. That's garbage! It doesn't work! We can't depend on the willingness of abusers to acknowledge the legitimacy of the claims of their victims. That's absurd. We need a process, we need a system, we need a way of meting out justice not simply to the men who might be willing to step down, but to those who aren't, and even to those theoretical men who might be falsely accused."

All systems of power come down to who you can trust, in the end. What we're seeing now is that Republicans are untrustable and cannot be lived with. There are no processes that can control a person who will never honor an agreement or recognize your rights as a fellow human.

asteria: "I think what would help these conversations is if people interact with the actual text and not assume they know what other Mefites believe or know or what their experiences are. Given how pervasive sexual assault and especially sexual harassment are I bet there are a lot of survivors in this thread."

There is audio evidence of our president admitting to sexual assault and it did nothing. Evidence doesn't matter, only the shame of the abuser.
posted by TypographicalError at 10:32 AM on December 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Franken specifically called out his senior senator, Amy Klobuchar and thanked her for her wisdom and guidance.
posted by VTX at 10:33 AM on December 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


Evidence doesn't matter, only the shame of the abuser.

Ok, but what does that have to do with Mefites? I was talking about Mefites. Do we have Trump supporters on Metafilter? I mean, I guess they might lurk. But here? In this thread?

(Did you pull the wrong quote?)
posted by asteria at 10:35 AM on December 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Popehat analyzes whether Trump Jr can invoke attorney-client privilege for phone calls between him and Trump Sr where both their lawyers were listening in. (Answer: maybe, but even if he could, Congress could in theory ignore it.)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:41 AM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Public service announcement time:

HEALTHCARE.GOV - The deadline to enroll for next year is December 15. That's soon! Don't wait until the last minute; get yourself covered. If watching an incredibly cringy video with Martin Sheen and Brad Whitford will somehow provide the needed inspiration to get enrolled in a health insurance plan, that's a thing you can do now, I guess, though it's not going to bring back your West Wing nostalgia.

Net Neutrality protests - Today. All over the place.

--

And from the Department of Keebler Studies, ABC obtained Less-guarded Sessions spars with interns in internal DOJ video, in which the Attorney General doesn't seem thrilled to be questioned by DOJ interns:
"I grew up in one of these communities," said the intern, who said he attends the University of California at Berkeley. "I grew up in a project to a single mother. And the people who we are afraid of are not necessarily our neighbors but the police."

An apparently exasperated Sessions replied, "Well, that may be the view in Berkeley, but it's not the view" elsewhere.
posted by zachlipton at 10:46 AM on December 7, 2017 [40 favorites]


Autumnheart: The Rs have collectively decided that committing sexual assault and harassment makes one a good candidate, positive role model, and “one of us”. Therefore, it isn’t a problem. The end.

The situation is like that, but also more complicated. Otherwise Trump (at the very least) would be willing to just say it out loud. (I mean, he did, but, you know. He hasn't said "So what if Roy Moore did all that stuff, who cares." Which he probably will at some point. Okay, Trump himself is a bad example of my point.)

What we're seeing is the phenomenon described by S.I Rosenbaum, a kind of collective cultural cognitive dissonance, but with respect to misogyny rather than racism. Both "groping/predation is no big deal" and "Democrats are nasty predator-excusers" are believed, at some level, by the same individuals in the GOP. Neither belief is somehow held cynically; both are genuine, because people are complicated. (We're capable of love-hate, fergoshsakes.)

And the culture can definitely change, sometimes faster than anyone expects. Witness same-sex marriage (Texas notwithstanding, ugh). Sometimes the outcome of cognitive dissonance is for one side ("Homosexuality is unnatural") to simply lose to the other ("I have gay friends/relatives who I love and respect"). We shouldn't surrender on this battle just because we can see Republicans being craven about it; if anything, we should recognize cracks in the wall.

Regarding the Matt Ylgesias article linked by zachlipton, I agree with the gist; we need politicians unafraid of being "too political", and the existence of that fear among the general public is the source of many problems. But I think the analysis falls short in this case, insofar as Moore's flaws are themselves a matter of partisan contention, because of the extent to which some conservatives genuinely tolerate the "right kind" of adult-child relationships. (Within the cognitive-dissonance context.) They'd probably be perfectly willing to ditch Moore for a substitute Republican if his crimes were of a different nature, e.g, if all his accusers were men who had been boys, rather than women who had been girls. They resort to the demented face-saving "yearbook-truther" conspiracy theories because of their inner turmoil over supporting heterosexual pedophilia itself, not inner turmoil over whether it's okay to openly prefer Republicans to Democrats.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 10:49 AM on December 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


zachlipton: "Michael Trujillo (longtime CA Democratic operative): SOURCES: @CNN and @washingtonpost working on exposing 20-30 congressional members 4 sexual harassment. #DC"

Yeah, I think we're going to be hearing about A LOT more of this in the near future.

There have also been calls in both houses of Congress to make public the settlement fund details.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:49 AM on December 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


I hate to be clueless, but where are we in the tax cut process? Is it in conference?


From a call to action email I just received on the historic tax credits:

Yesterday the Senate approved its motion to go to conference and announced its conferees:
• Conference Chair: Finance Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-UT) *Republican sponsor of Affordable Housing Credit Improvement Act (S. 548)
• Sen. Mike Enzi (R-WY)
• Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) *co-sponsor of S. 548
• Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX)
• Sen. John Thune (R-SD)
• Sen. Rob Portman (R-OH) *co-sponsor of S. 548
• Sen. Tim Scott (R-SC) *co-sponsor of S. 548
• Sen. Pat Toomey (R-PA)

The Senate will also appoint Democratic conferees, whose influence will be limited.

The House Republican conferees were announced earlier this week:
• Conference Chair: Ways and Means Chairman Kevin Brady (R-TX-8)
• Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA-22)
• Rep. Peter Roskam (R-IL-6)
• Rep. Diane Black (R-TN-6)
• Rep. Kristi Noem (R-SD-at large) *co-sponsor of Affordable Housing Credit Improvement Act (H.R. 1661)
• Rep. Rob Bishop (R-UT-1)
• Rep. Don Young (R-AK-at large) *co-sponsor of H.R. 1661
• Rep. John Shimkus (R-IL-15) *co-sponsor of H.R. 1661
• Rep. Fred Upton (R-MI-6), who replaced Rep. Greg Walden (R-OR-2) on the committee
posted by Preserver at 10:50 AM on December 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


The local alt weekly on the Florida senator Jack Latvala story.
posted by wittgenstein at 10:51 AM on December 7, 2017


Mod note: Couple comments removed, this has gotten way deep into the weeds for a politics catch-all thread and feels at this point more like a personal exchange than anything.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:00 AM on December 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


A good, robust problem resolution process should [1] address the instance (extinguish the known fire), [2] mitigate possible harm from as-yet unknown instances (dig fire lines), and [3] eliminate, or minimize as much as possible, the root causes/seed conditions that could eventually produce new instances (develop and enforce fire codes). Goals include both protecting individuals and improving critical systems and processes.

All three phases are extremely important, but we tend to de-emphasize the third when dealing with the first two. Improving systems and processes is likewise important, but we sometimes tend toward de-prioritizing that in the course of protecting individuals. And, as others have noted, in this situation we must do this with arsonists still on the loose. It's an extremely difficult situation in which to produce a positive, lasting change in culture. But necessity is the mother of invention.

I'm hopeful that we will collectively remember to be thoughtful and not too reactionary. Let the arsonists be reckless and overreach. As for ourselves, let's be thoughtful and deliberate, remember that unintended consequences are a real possibility, and ensure as much as possible that what we do now serves our long term goals.
posted by perspicio at 11:01 AM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Good news dept: Former South Carolina police officer Michael Slager was sentenced today to 20 years in prison for the 2015 deadly shooting of unarmed black man Walter Scott. [ABC]
posted by Chrysostom at 11:04 AM on December 7, 2017 [105 favorites]


And the only reason that even stood a chance of happening was that a bystander was brave enough to stand his ground and film the shooting on his phone.
posted by delfin at 11:14 AM on December 7, 2017 [46 favorites]


And the only reason that even stood a chance of happening was that a bystander was brave enough to stand his ground and film the shooting on his phone.

And on that note, the ACLU has an app you can use to record police conduct. It uploads directly to the ACLU as you record (so no chance for the police or ICE or whomever to delete from your phone).
posted by mcduff at 11:21 AM on December 7, 2017 [31 favorites]


Alt-right folks tend to be obsessed with the idea that the US government is "occupied" by Zionists. How are they not freaking out about the Jerusalem decision?

People that talk like that mean "Jews", and they're not even necessarily interested in the Middle East except insofar as they can use it as a rhetorical talking point. For instance, there's a sort of horseshoe thing where the same people (e.g. Alison Weir) get to address both far-left groups like JVP and far-right ones like the Institute for Historical Review. What does she mean when she talks about "Zionists"? Whatever her audience wants to think, I guess. At some point on both sides people saying "Zionist" probably do mean something like the dictionary definition, but at the top of the horseshoe it's just a dog-whistle.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:23 AM on December 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Of course, there is the hidden agenda among some partial-anti-semites that support for the Jewish State is the first step in getting Jews to "self-deport".
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:27 AM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Surely the typical alt-righter figures that any positive event for Zionism is acceptable if it's also a negative for Islam/Palestinians? I assume that's a factor, anyway.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 11:30 AM on December 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Games They Will Play: Tax Games, Roadblocks, and Glitches Under the New Legislation -- a paper by some of the top tax professors/scholars in the country analyzing all of the ways the House and Senate bills can be gamed.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:30 AM on December 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


> a paper by some of the top tax professors/scholars in the country analyzing all of the ways the House and Senate bills can be gamed.

Well, that's a feature, I guess, not a bug. Meanwhile, they are on to other ways to loot the country:

NYT: Republicans Move to Resolve Tax Bill Differences as Cost Concerns Loom
During his campaign, Mr. Trump opposed cutting Medicare and Medicaid, but Mr. Ryan said that he was working to persuade him to change his mind. “I think these reforms that we’ve been talking about, that we’re still going to keep pushing, that will help not just make Medicaid less expensive and health care itself, but it will help Medicare as well,” Mr. Ryan said during the interview. “And I think the president’s understanding choice and competition works everywhere in health care, especially in Medicare.”
Of course Medicare and Medicaid need to spend less money - didn't you hear, we don't have the cash and we're deep in debt. If you aren't an able-bodied worker bee, it would really help if you hurried up and died already.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:36 AM on December 7, 2017 [19 favorites]


Do we seriously think this guy (Roger Stone) doesn't have a whole cemetery's worth of skeleton's in his closet?

Stone's closet is wide open and he honestly doesn't give a shit. As long as he pulls up dirt on the Left the Right doesn't either.
posted by PenDevil at 11:56 AM on December 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Wow, they're really going to go with 'we can't afford a safety net.' That's some fucking chutzpah right there.
posted by angrycat at 12:20 PM on December 7, 2017 [17 favorites]


Alt-right folks tend to be obsessed with the idea that the US government is "occupied" by Zionists. How are they not freaking out about the Jerusalem decision? Wouldn't this indicate that Trump is part of the imaginary Zionist conspiracy?
  • As mentioned, Evangelical-types believe the Jewish people (depending on the person, all Jews) returning to Israel and retaking Jerusalem is a necessary condition of bringing about the End Times and the Rapture.
  • Some anti-Semites believe shuttling all Jews into Israel is a great way to get them out of their hair. By force, if necessary. Similar programs were suggested as a solution to "the Jewish Problem" early into the Nazi rise to power before deciding genocide was more expedient.
  • Trump supporters, like the fans of many authoritarian leaders, hold the unwavering belief that all the actions of their Dear Leader are in the name of fulfilling whatever they want their Dear Leader to believe. Even when those actions appear contradictory it's all part of the plan. Those who are not satisfied with simply walling off the Jewish people believe that step predicates betraying them. After herding them in, Trump will then either leave them to the mercies of the Savage Muslims and Our Glorious Ally Putin, or, even better, the USA will join in on the massacre.
Needless to say IT IS FUCKED UP.
posted by Anonymous at 12:28 PM on December 7, 2017


Doesn't a budget resolution require 60 votes?

From last night. I admit I was focused entirely on the House when I posted they could pass it without a single Democratic vote. You're right... in the Senate I believe Democrats could theoretically filibuster the CR. But I don't think that happens... it's the House where these things fail. Still it's true that Democratic votes are required for cloture on the CR in the Senate.
posted by Justinian at 12:38 PM on December 7, 2017


@noa_landau (correspondent at Haaretz): Just in: no change regarding #Jerusalem as place of birth on US passports (still no ‘Israel’). @WhiteHouse official: “we will be providing guidance in the near future”. In other words: let’s recognize the capital except on documents where it actually shows? @MaltzJudy @amirtibon

This all seems a lot like another case of the President declaring something on his own and the rest of the government's institutions just nodding their heads and pretending it didn't happen.
posted by zachlipton at 12:47 PM on December 7, 2017 [26 favorites]


From the end of the Erik Prince powerpoint:

It is time to return to a robust Intel/SOF led fight backed by organic airpower. Exercise and demonstrate the capability now so when the political winds shift, the Agency is ready with solutions it will be ordered to implement.

Prince's admiration of the Phoenix Program is well-known: Daily Beast and Intercept. He openly said it on Steve Bannon's and Milo's podcasts. That seems to be what he's talking about here, and it's incredibly ominous. He's determined to make some big-boy atrocities.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:50 PM on December 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


You know, if the lesson that comes from this is "Better not sexually assault women or your political enemies will find out and use it to ruin your career" I'm fine with that. I'd of course PREFER if men didn't sexually assault women because it's WRONG, but if this is what it takes then great.

Now I think the Left could use a few people digging around for dirt of this kind on Repubs as well.
posted by threeturtles at 12:51 PM on December 7, 2017 [25 favorites]


It is time to return to a robust Intel/SOF led fight backed by organic airpower

Well now we know what the endgame of his private airforce was for.
posted by PenDevil at 12:53 PM on December 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


He's determined to make some big-boy atrocities.

It's his life's work.
posted by rhizome at 12:54 PM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


TW: violent sexual assault

The reality is that sexual harassment and sexual assault cases are often not reported to the police. When they are, the perpetrator rarely sees the inside of a courtroom. Convictions are even rarer. The reason for this is that unless assault is reported immediately and evidence is available, AND the police don't refuse to take action, the case comes down to one person's word against the other. And our culture is more likely to blame the victim for what was done to her (or in rarer cases, him,) than punish a groper or even a rapist.

I want to reiterate something I mentioned in an earlier thread. My husband was recently on a jury for an aggravated sexual assault case. The woman was beaten bloody, had her head smashed into the floor, choked nearly to death, and sexually assaulted multiple times in a night by a past partner. The jury spent most of the deliberation talking about how she shouldn't have allowed him into her apartment and they couldn't know if the sex was actually consensual, and if she really felt in danger of death or violence from him. It was specifically the women on the jury (including several women of color, who around here I tend to assume are Dems) who engaged in the victim-blaming, while the men wanted to convict.

Unfortunately the lesson many people who come into contact with investigations and prosecutions of sexual assault learn is that even the clearest and worst cases can't get a fair result. (He got probation, no jail time.)
posted by threeturtles at 1:02 PM on December 7, 2017 [32 favorites]


> Wow, they're really going to go with 'we can't afford a safety net.' That's some fucking chutzpah right there.

Yeah. I don't have much hope here, but at least the "Honorable" Tom Reed (R-NY23) should be made to squirm. His office staffer sounded pretty defensive when I complained (at length!) that they were buying us off with a tax cut but our taxes were going to go up soon, while billionaires and corporations were getting permanent cuts.

The handful of Republican Congressmen in NY and CA might be one of our few hopes in this mess, if we can make them uncomfortable enough, because their votes are just as necessary as the votes of the Freedom Caucus wack-jobs.

If you have Republican congressmen, please call them! Even if it's pointless, it's cathartic!

(For the Senate, there's still the possible triple-bank-shot of delay, government shutdown, Doug Jones, but that still requires at least one of McCain or Collins or Flake to grow a conscience again.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:05 PM on December 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


BOOM. CNN, Exclusive: Previously undisclosed emails show follow-up after Trump Tower meeting
The British publicist who arranged the June 2016 meeting with Russians and Donald Trump Jr. sent multiple emails to a Russian participant and a member of Donald Trump's inner circle later that summer, multiple sources told CNN, the first indication there was any follow-up after the meeting.

The emails raise new questions for congressional investigators about what was discussed at Trump Tower. Trump Jr. has for months contended that after being promised he would get dirt on Hillary Clinton, the brief meeting focused almost exclusively on the issue of Russian adoptions, saying there was no discussion with the participants after that session.

The emails from the publicist, Rob Goldstone, were discovered by congressional investigators and raised at Wednesday's classified hearing with Trump Jr., who said he could not recall the interactions, several sources said. None of the newly disclosed emails were sent directly to Trump Jr. They are bound to be a subject during Goldstone's closed-door meetings with the House and Senate intelligence panels, which are expected to take place as early as next week.

An email from Goldstone to senior Trump aide Dan Scavino, now the White House director of social media, reveals a previously undisclosed topic that was discussed at the meeting. It encourages Scavino to get candidate Trump to create a page on the Russian social networking site VK, telling him that "Don and Paul" were on board with the idea -- a reference to then-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and Trump Jr.
...
In one email dated June 14, 2016, Goldstone forwarded a CNN story on Russia's hacking of DNC emails to his client, Russian pop star Emin Agalarov, and Ike Kaveladze, a Russian who attended the meeting along with Trump Jr., Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner and Manafort, describing the news as "eerily weird" given what they had discussed at Trump Tower five days earlier.

One of the sources familiar with the content of the email downplayed the interaction, saying news of the DNC hack was surprising because in the run-up to the Trump Tower meeting, the Russian participants had promised information on illicit Russian funding of the DNC. But that dirt was not provided to Trump Jr., Kushner and Manafort during the meeting, according to accounts from the participants.
Every damn single thing Don Jr. has said about this meeting has been proved to be a lie.
posted by zachlipton at 1:11 PM on December 7, 2017 [67 favorites]


I resisted & got a pandering bullshitty email back from Thom Tillis. It is fucking pointless to talk to these assholes.
posted by yoga at 1:12 PM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


The point isn't to change their minds. It's to make sure they feel some heat from their districts.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:19 PM on December 7, 2017 [42 favorites]


It is not useless. Don't stop. That's how they win.

Redouble your efforts. Let the BS fuel your determination. You may not change their minds, but with enough pressure they will change their behavior. (See threeturtles' comment above, and apply the same reasoning.)
posted by perspicio at 1:19 PM on December 7, 2017 [26 favorites]


zachlipton: "This all seems a lot like another case of the President declaring something on his own and the rest of the government's institutions just nodding their heads and pretending it didn't happen."

It is a quintessentially Trumpian deal - none of whatever advantages might be gained, but all of the drawbacks.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:19 PM on December 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


I resisted & got a pandering bullshitty email back from Thom Tillis. It is fucking pointless to talk to these assholes.

Fundraising and letter writing event idea: all of these assholes use the same infuriating talking points in their responses, have a letter writing campaign and gather up the responses to read out at a Talking Points Bingo night with pledged donations for every bingo.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:21 PM on December 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


It's the sort of thing that has to be done regardless, but we already know what happens when you show that a Republican politician is a sexual predator: it doesn't hurt them, it even encourages their supporters to treat them as victims. Maybe people will stop falling for this narrative, but that's not what's happening right now.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:22 PM on December 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Also, OH COME ON:
When Trump Jr. posted his full email exchange with Goldstone on Twitter showing he was promised the meeting would produce dirt on the Clinton campaign, George Kaveladze emailed his father asking why Trump Jr. was admitting "collusion," two sources with knowledge of the email told CNN. It was not clear whether the younger Kaveladze was joking, and the attorney for his father declined to comment on the exchange.
In short:

Goldstone to Don. Jr: hey, wanna collude?
Don Jr.: "I love it"
[secret meeting with three of the most senior campaign officials]
Goldstone: Hi Trump Campaign, I'd like to connect with you on VKontakte
Goldstone: Hey it's weird we just had that meeting and now Russia is hacking the DNC, right?
Don Jr.: When people ask about any of this, let's be sure to lie about it extensively.
posted by zachlipton at 1:28 PM on December 7, 2017 [27 favorites]


In one email dated June 14, 2016, Goldstone forwarded a CNN story on Russia's hacking of DNC emails to his client, Russian pop star Emin Agalarov, and Ike Kaveladze, a Russian who attended the meeting along with Trump Jr., Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner and Manafort, describing the news as "eerily weird" given what they had discussed at Trump Tower five days earlier.

So Don Jr. tries to connect with the Russians for Clinton dirt because of Goldstone's promise, but iirc according to Veselnitskya's testimony to Congress the meeting doesn't end up going where either of them wanted to. But V could have brought back to the Russians greater clarity about what Don Jr. was looking for, and look, surprise gift a few days later...
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 1:30 PM on December 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


And in other news, via Elizabeth Landers:

NEW from @PressSec on Lewis, Thompson missing the Civil Rights Museum opening: “We think it’s unfortunate that these members of Congress wouldn’t join the President in honoring the incredible sacrifice civil rights leaders made to right the injustices in our history." (1/2)
MORE: "The President hopes others will join him in recognizing that the movement was about removing barriers and unifying Americans of all backgrounds.” (2/2)

Sanders is attacking Rep. John Lewis for not "honoring" civil rights leaders like, *checks notecard*, Rep. John Lewis.
posted by zachlipton at 1:33 PM on December 7, 2017 [95 favorites]


> It is a quintessentially Trumpian deal - none of whatever advantages might be gained, but all of the drawbacks.

> Don Jr.: I love it ... When people ask about any of this, let's be sure to lie about it extensively.

(How on earth are we governed by this bunch of incompetent nitwits? They make Scooby Doo villains look like super-geniuses.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:34 PM on December 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


In one email dated June 14, 2016, Goldstone forwarded a CNN story on Russia's hacking of DNC emails to his client, Russian pop star Emin Agalarov, and Ike Kaveladze, a Russian who attended the meeting along with Trump Jr., Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner and Manafort, describing the news as "eerily weird" given what they had discussed at Trump Tower five days earlier.

Even more eeirely weird, the very next day the GRU-sponsored hacker "Guccifer 2.0" released a DNC opposition file on Trump, stolen from the Democratic Party’s network.
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:35 PM on December 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Some context to Goldstone's pitch that the Trump Campaign set up shop on VK, from the Daily Beast last month, American Alt-Right Leaves Facebook for Russian Site VKontakte. White nationalists have been migrating there as they get pushed off US social networks. Also from The Atlantic in May 2016: American Neo-Nazis Are on Russia's Facebook (via @pwnallthethings).
posted by zachlipton at 1:44 PM on December 7, 2017 [17 favorites]


Sanders is attacking Rep. John Lewis

That's SHuckabee-Sanders, not the other one. I'm pretty sure. And yeah, admonishing John Lewis for not attending a civil rights gathering?

Mmmmm, what's a cosmic paddlin'? (Not that cheesy Bible "hell" crap.). Having to work for Trump forever? Okay the rest of one's life.
posted by petebest at 1:50 PM on December 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


From Alex Moe at NBC: "The House just passed the 2-week CR funding the government until December 22nd by a vote of 235 to 193 with 18 Republicans voting against the measure and 14 Democrats supporting it."
posted by kelborel at 1:56 PM on December 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


I’m reading through the DNC’s opposition research on Trump that was leaked by Guccifer 2.0 and this is mentioned under the section “Trump As Plaintiff”:
New York Times’ Timothy O’Brien: Donald Trump Dismissed Claims He Was Worth Less Than $250 Million As Naysaying By “Guys Who Have 400-Pound Wives At Home Who Are Jealous Of Me.” “Three people with direct knowledge of Donald's finances, people who had worked closely with him for years, told me that they thought his net worth was somewhere between $150 million and $250 million. ... Donald dismissed this as naysaying. ‘You can go ahead and speak to guys who have 400-pound wives at home who are jealous of me, but the guys who really know me know I'm a great builder,’ he told me.” [Timothy O’Brien, Business Day, New York Times, 10/23/05]
It reminded me of his “400-lb hacker” comment. Seems weird in retrospect.
posted by gucci mane at 1:59 PM on December 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


@frankthorp: Sen Cassidy: “Franken, he didn't have to resign, he just chose to, he got drummed out by his colleagues and again, you can't help but notice there was no due process, but none the less he accepted the drumming...”

Armchair psychoanalyzing here, but Senator Cassidy seems a bit nervous.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:11 PM on December 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


New Pew Research Poll:

Trump approval 32%, disapproval 63%. 76% approval among Republicans. 7% drop in popularity among self-identified conservatives since February, 16% drop for moderate/libertarian Republicans, 17% among white evangelical protestants.

40% approval for men, 25% for women.

55% are confident that Mueller's investigation will be fair, 36% think it won't be. Among Republicans, 44% say fair and 50% say unfair.

"Overall, 37% of Trump approvers cite something Trump has done to disappoint them (62% say they can’t think of anything). In December 2009, by comparison, somewhat fewer (30%) of those who approved of Barack Obama’s job performance said there was something Obama had done that had made them unhappy; at the time, Obama’s job approval was 49%."
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:15 PM on December 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


Farenthold may still be in hot water:
The House Ethics Committee is seeking an interview with Lauren Greene, the former aide to GOP Rep. Blake Farenthold who alleges she was sexually harassed by the Texas Republican.

Greene received an $84,000, taxpayer-funded settlement after she sued Farenthold in Dec. 2014 over allegations of gender discrimination, sexual harassment and creating a hostile work environment.

Even though the Office of Congressional Ethics cleared Farenthold, the Ethics Committee has continued to look into the matter.[Politico]
posted by Chrysostom at 2:15 PM on December 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Arizona’s Trent Franks Expected to Resign
Rumors of inappropriate behavior surround Freedom Caucus member’s anticipated exit

Exclusive: Previously undisclosed emails show follow-up after Trump Tower meeting

Wow, I heard some rumblings but didn't have a source to link to. It's better than I thought.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:15 PM on December 7, 2017 [23 favorites]


That was a 58-37 Trump seat, so a stretch for a Dem. But even a replacement level Republican would likely be an improvement, Franks is a raving HFC guy.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:17 PM on December 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


triggerfinger: There is only one thing I want from Al Franken before he steps down. I want him to introduce a bill in the Senate that if any elected official is accused of sexual assault, an official bipartisan Senate investigation is automatically triggered [eponysterical!]....

I bet if you were to call Franken's office right now, you'd have a much better than usual chance of having your idea reported to Franken himself, because you'd be one of the few people calling about something other than whether he should resign. That, and it lines up perfectly with his stated position on the issue.
posted by shponglespore at 2:26 PM on December 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


OK I called local & DC offices and left my request that they vote no. My energy levels are gasping for breath & I'm in severe under-my-rock mode, but I eked out a few molecules to call.
posted by yoga at 2:38 PM on December 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


Armchair psychoanalyzing here, but Senator Cassidy seems a bit nervous.

I note that he was born in 57 ( age 60 ) and has lived in a miasma of misogyny for his entire life. A world of Playboy and Mad Men. Slap his hand away, but giggle.

This world we all want to live in, where that's not tolerated, must we weird and scary to him. His cognitive framing doesn't include the concept of "Credible Allegations of Sexual Misconduct" == "End of Career".

All we have to do is keep normalizing the idea. "CREDIBLE allegations of sexual misconduct" == "End of Career", and we'll live in that world instead of Cassidy's.
posted by mikelieman at 2:48 PM on December 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


Former Colorado GOP chairman Steve Curtis found guilty of voter fraud, forgery (ABC7 Denver)
Curtis, 58, was arrested in March and accused of signing his wife’s mail-in ballot for her, which is a misdemeanor in Colorado. He was also charged with forgery of a public record, a fifth-degree felony.

His ex-wife had moved to South Carolina and learned her ballot had already been cast when she called the county clerk to see how she could vote from there.

“He knew exactly what he was doing,” argued Deputy District Attorney Tate Costin during closing arguments. “He received it in the mail, opened it, voted, signed it, sealed it back up and sent it in. If he were going to sign a name during this confused diabetic state, wouldn’t he sign his own name? Why her name? She hadn’t even lived in the house for 11 months.”
posted by Room 641-A at 3:04 PM on December 7, 2017 [61 favorites]


Former Colorado GOP chairman Steve Curtis found guilty of voter fraud, forgery

I take it all back. Voter fraud does exist.
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:10 PM on December 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


Armchair psychoanalyzing here, but Senator Cassidy seems a bit nervous.

I was going to put it down as just an asshole Republican thug, but your theories are interesting. Pray, continue.
posted by petebest at 3:11 PM on December 7, 2017


The Senate passed the CR as well, 81-14 (it's Thursday, things happen quickly when the jet fumes are in the air and everyone wants out of town). Assuming Trump signs it instead of randomly shut the government down, please advance the countdown timer two weeks.

Are there other countries in the world where they routinely decide whether to have a government or not in two-week increments?
posted by zachlipton at 3:20 PM on December 7, 2017 [16 favorites]


Assuming Trump signs it instead of randomly shut the government down

Brief reminder of this article from the distant past of seven days ago: WaPo (Josh Dawsey, Sean Sullivan, Ed O'Keefe): Trump tells confidants that a government shutdown might be good for him

Watch him veto it.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 3:29 PM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


The chances of flipping Franks' seat from red to blue are slim to none, but there should be a good candidate in the district this time, unlike last time where there was no Dem candidate. It should be a good election for getting the temperature of the state, though. If this race is closer than it should be, Ducey might want to update his resume.
posted by azpenguin at 3:32 PM on December 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


In which the NYT is excoriated by Duncan J. Watts and David M. Rothschild, CJR: Don’t blame the election on fake news. Blame it on the media.
In light of the stark policy choices facing voters in the 2016 election, it seems incredible that only five out of 150 front-page articles that The New York Times ran over the last, most critical months of the election, attempted to compare the candidate’s policies, while only 10 described the policies of either candidate in any detail.

In this context, 10 is an interesting figure because it is also the number of front-page stories the Times ran on the Hillary Clinton email scandal in just six days, from October 29 (the day after FBI Director James Comey announced his decision to reopen his investigation of possible wrongdoing by Clinton) through November 3, just five days before the election. When compared with the Times’s overall coverage of the campaign, the intensity of focus on this one issue is extraordinary. To reiterate, in just six days, The New York Times ran as many cover stories about Hillary Clinton’s emails as they did about all policy issues combined in the 69 days leading up to the election (and that does not include the three additional articles on October 18, and November 6 and 7, or the two articles on the emails taken from John Podesta). This intense focus on the email scandal cannot be written off as inconsequential: The Comey incident and its subsequent impact on Clinton’s approval rating among undecided voters could very well have tipped the election.
Emphasis mine.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:36 PM on December 7, 2017 [101 favorites]


He may not have gotten Time's Person of the Year, but Trump's received other honors... the year-end issue of MAD was in my mailbox today (the last subscription I have, it goes on sale Tuesday) with it's annual "20 Dumbest People, Events and Things of the Year" and not only is he #1 (for Russian collusion), but also #6 (for Twitter use), #8 (shared with Kim Jung-Un for nuclear escalation), #10 (for the transgender military ban), #11 (for the Muslim travel ban), #17 (for staff firings) and #20 (for his response to Puerto Rico). That's 7 out of 20, obviously a record for one man. Oh, plus in his administration, #7 to Sean Spicer (for general stupidity and dishonesty) and #9 to Mike Pence (for his 'won't dine with a woman who's not my wife' thing). Other dis-honorees are Bill O'Reilly (#2) and Harvey Weinstein (#12) for sexual harassment (only them? this must've been done several weeks go), the White Supremacists (#4) with Trump in the illustration smiling as he rides along in a General Lee convertible with a collection of angry haters, Alex Jones (#5) for just being Alex Jones, fidget spinners (#18), the NFL (#19) for "blackballing" Colin Kaepernick, as well as the almost forgotten United Airlines (#3) for passenger abuse, the Oscars (#5) for the 'wrong envelope' fiasco, Chris Christie (#13) for the beach closings, NBA star Kyrie Irving (#16) for his 'the earth is flat' declaration and Bill Maher and Kathy Griffin (sharing #14) for the year's most tasteless jokes (a category MAD has NOT qualified for in years).
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:44 PM on December 7, 2017 [25 favorites]


About those rumors causing Franks to resign: They appear to be related to him asking two female staffers about becoming a surrogate for his child.
posted by rewil at 3:46 PM on December 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Rep. Franks put out a statement. Apparently, according to him anyway, the case the ethics committee will be investigating involves his "discussion of surrogacy with two previous female subordinates, making each feel uncomfortable" (his twins were born with a surrogate, and he and his wife were trying again).

2017 is damn weird, y'all.
posted by zachlipton at 3:47 PM on December 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


Rep. Franks put out a statement. Apparently, according to him anyway, the case the ethics committee will be investigating involves his "discussion of surrogacy with two previous female subordinates, making each feel uncomfortable" (his twins were born with a surrogate, and he and his wife were trying again).

2017 is damn weird, y'all.
posted by zachlipton at 6:47 PM on December 7


« Older “HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!”

thanks, Mefi, I needed that.
posted by numaner at 3:50 PM on December 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


The twitter threads are pointing out that "asked about surrogacy," as strange and creepy as it sounds, is not enough on its own to have made anyone push for resignation. Even if it included the phrase, "the old-fashioned way" (which one of the tweets assumed), there's enough of a veneer of kinda-sorta respectability to avoid anything more than "ugh, really?"

Either there's more dirt, or he was really creepy about the "surrogacy" discussions. (Or both. With this crowd, "both" is always a good guess.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:03 PM on December 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


I don't have expertise with surrogacy but I used to be a middle manager and hired and (once) fired someone. I am not as savvy as the author of Ask a Manager but I don't have to be to say yeah, no. Talking to employees about potentially becoming a surrogate will always be a hard no. Remember, sexual harassment and many other creepy things are about power and there's no way anything about that conversation wasn't creepy and potentially coercive.
posted by Bella Donna at 4:07 PM on December 7, 2017 [38 favorites]


Which is not to disagree with ErisLordFreedom because it seems as though there is always more dirt in these cases. Yuck.
posted by Bella Donna at 4:09 PM on December 7, 2017


Talking to employees about potentially becoming a surrogate will always be a hard no. Remember, sexual harassment and many other creepy things are about power and there's no way anything about that conversation wasn't creepy and potentially coercive.

yeah, jesus, that would be worse than anything short of crossing the line to touching. if you understand why "do you want to sleep with me" is unacceptable to ask of your subordinate, surely you see that "do you want to BEAR MY CHILD" is ten times worse.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:09 PM on December 7, 2017 [28 favorites]


Arizona’s Trent Franks Expected to Resign

Seen on Facebook: "Are they going in alphabetical order?"
posted by Faint of Butt at 4:11 PM on December 7, 2017 [66 favorites]


yeah, jesus, that would be worse than anything short of crossing the line to touching. if you understand why "do you want to sleep with me" is unacceptable to ask of your subordinate, surely you see that "do you want to BEAR MY CHILD" is ten times worse.

With the added power differential of the staffers having careers within the "you're pregnant so you have no bodily autonomy" party. My skin crawls thinking of the kind of position that would put someone in.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:25 PM on December 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


"Are they going in alphabetical order?"

That would mean next up is Rodney Frelinghuysen (R-NJ), or Cory Gardner (R-CO) if it switches between House and Senate.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:26 PM on December 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Is creepy surrogate pressuring of staffers worse than calling high school girls out of class to hit on them? 2017 questions? A Republican actually resigning, and in a safe Trump district even, is throwing off the morality scale a bit, unless some way worse details are coming out tomorrow.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:29 PM on December 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Asking a younger woman who works for you to carry your child (old-fashioned way or no!) is gross and invasive. Would you ask a young male staffer to be a sperm donor?

And if you're the person's boss, that puts you in a position of power. People are often afraid to say no to their supervisor, which means you don't ask them weirdly personal, intrusive questions like this. Even if it's not sexual. You don't ask people you supervise to floss your teeth or clip your toenails. Ew.

Franks was inappropriately boundary-busting and should have known better.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 4:31 PM on December 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


"Nothing wrong with that, must be more to it."

Sure, sure. You turn to your employee who went to some insanely expensive good school for at least four years and maybe six to get a degree so that she could come do this job in your office and who in her interview said she had dreamed all her life of working in Washington and maybe becoming a senator herself one day, and you say:

"O, hey, you're in the room and have a womb: wanna have my baby for me?"

What is wrong with everybody.
posted by Don Pepino at 4:32 PM on December 7, 2017 [78 favorites]


surely you see that "do you want to BEAR MY CHILD" is ten times worse.

I do, but I suspect that many men in Congress would hear, "aww, he asked her about a baby," and completely bypass any of the ten tons of creepiness that comes with getting that request from someone who already holds a lot of power over you.

I would expect it to get filed under "huh, that's really weird" and not "omg, she must've been terrified, realizing how much control he wanted over her."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:37 PM on December 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


ErisLordFreedom: " "Are they going in alphabetical order?"

That would mean next up is Rodney Frelinghuysen (R-NJ), or Cory Gardner (R-CO) if it switches between House and Senate."

Yes please if just because of how much my mom hated Rodney back when he was a county freeholder. Fun fact, I went to Frelinghuysen Middle School and in history class had to learn Rodney's entire family tree going back a thousand years.
posted by octothorpe at 4:39 PM on December 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


Events Zinke had to hire helicopters for included the coronation of fellow Montanan Shame Greg Gianforte and going on a horsie ride with Pence. Bonus points for the aggressively gaslighting spokeswoman. These are not great people.

The travel logs, released to POLITICO via a Freedom of Information Act request, show Zinke using taxpayer-funded vehicles from the U.S. Park Police to help accommodate his political events schedule. [...] Zinke’s staff justified the $8,000 flight by saying official business would prevent him leaving Washington before 2 p.m., too late to make the two-hour drive to the exercise, according to the documents.

The event that prevented Zinke from leaving before 2 p.m. was the swearing-in ceremony for Rep. Greg Gianforte (R-Mont.), according to Zinke's official Interior calendar. Gianforte, who won a special election for Zinke's old seat in May after assaulting a reporter, contributed along with his wife $15,800 to Zinke’s two congressional campaigns. [...]

“The swearing in of the Congressman is absolutely an official event, as is emergency management training,” Interior spokeswoman Heather Swift said in an email Thursday. “Shame on you for not respecting the office of a Member of Congress.”

Zinke also ordered a Park Police helicopter to fly him and another Interior official to and from Yorktown, Va., on July 7 in order to be back in Washington in time for a 4 p.m. horseback ride with Pence.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:47 PM on December 7, 2017 [22 favorites]


NYT, Ken Vogel,: James O’Keefe, Practitioner of the Sting, Has an Ally in Trump, in which Trump was in on it from the start:
Days after Donald J. Trump launched his presidential campaign in June 2015, James O’Keefe, the conservative disrupter famous for trying to use secret recordings to embarrass liberals and journalists, visited Trump Tower and gave Mr. Trump a preview of his latest hidden camera video intended to undermine Hillary Clinton.

The footage, widely dismissed after it was released some weeks later, showed officials from Mrs. Clinton’s presidential campaign appearing to accept a payment for campaign swag from a Canadian woman at a Clinton campaign rally — in violation, Mr. O’Keefe contended, of election laws barring campaign contributions from foreigners.

Mr. Trump had been promoting Mr. O’Keefe’s work for years and a few weeks earlier had donated $10,000 from his foundation to Mr. O’Keefe’s group. At the meeting in his office, Mr. Trump praised the new video and pledged more money. As the campaign progressed, he pointed to other videos as evidence of his false accusations that Mrs. Clinton paid people to cause violence at Trump campaign rallies, and since his inauguration he and his team have continued to highlight Mr. O’Keefe’s work as evidence of the president’s repeated claims that the news media is peddling “fake news.”
WaPo, Trump’s richest friends are asking for changes to the GOP tax plan, and he’s listening, in which Trump's New York friends aren't happy about the SALT situation, and they corner him at a fundraiser about it.

BuzzFeed, Ruby Cramer, The Bernie–Hillary Unity Commission Is About To Vote On Changing Superdelegates, Caucuses, And More. Here Are The Details. The changes would still have to be enacted by the DNC, but here's what they're proposing. I've got issues with same-day party registration, but most of these seems like good reforms:
The proposals, guided by the commission's official mandate, are significant. Members of the 21-person commission are still finalizing the language in the report they will present this weekend, but Democrats in and around the Unity Reform group say the recommendations would effectively reduce the number of superdelegates by about 60%, require absentee voting and mandatory vote counts in caucuses, encourage states to allow same-day party and voter registration, and set new guidelines at the Democratic National Committee (DNC) to prevent conflicts of interest and ensure that the party remains neutral during presidential elections.
In other news, @AliABCNews: Per pooler at the WH Hanukkah party, there are no visible Hanukkah decorations or menorah in the East Room, but there are four large Christmas trees
posted by zachlipton at 4:52 PM on December 7, 2017 [45 favorites]


Meh. I think this sort of thing is mawkish and would happily defer any Chanuka displays until there are some Jews in the White House... er, hang on.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:58 PM on December 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


“The swearing in of the Congressman is absolutely an official event, as is emergency management training,” Interior spokeswoman Heather Swift said in an email Thursday. “Shame on you for not respecting the office of a Member of Congress.”

It feels like there have been a lot of these infuriating "shame on you for making an eagle cry" bullshit responses lately, I'd love to see the training materials they're giving press contacts in the administration. So many stupid transparent patterns of response.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:09 PM on December 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Nunes is back. Ethics Committee clears Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes:
"In the course of this investigation, the Committee sought the analysis of Representative Nunes's statements by classification experts in the intelligence community," the Ethics Committee said in a statement. "Based solely on the conclusion of these classification experts that the information that Representative Nunes disclosed was not classified, the Committee will take no further action and considers this matter closed."
Do they think we're stupid? The problem was never whether Nunes disclosed classified information. The problem was that Nunes bailed out of his Uber to go to the White House complex to view information, then rushed back to the White House the next day to breathlessly brief Trump on the information he had just obtained from the administration. The problem was that he was conducting a sham investigation, not his handling of classified information. But now they'll just sweep that under the rug.

Either there's more dirt, or he was really creepy about the "surrogacy" discussions. (Or both. With this crowd, "both" is always a good guess.)

Do not get me wrong; I am firmly, firmly on the side of a strict "do not in any way discuss potentially implanting embryos into your subordinates" policy. The power differential problems there are deeply disturbing. But given Speaker Ryan's utter inaction on many other charges of misconduct, it's hard not to see this as Ryan pushing out a Freedom Caucuser and getting to look like he's Taking It Seriously as an added bonus.
posted by zachlipton at 5:12 PM on December 7, 2017 [29 favorites]


I'd love to see the training materials they're giving press contacts in the administration.

A FOIA request can probably get that for you. It might well take six months, and of course by the time you got it, they'd claim they've fixed anything horribly problematic, but I agree that it'd be interesting.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:19 PM on December 7, 2017


So Governor Dayton will appoint Franken's successor in the next few days. That person will serve until the elections next year, at which point, Minnesota will have elections for both state Senators, as well as our Governor. All three are Democrats and Minnesota has been becoming more and more a purple state in recent years. Our state legislature is majority Republican.

Klobuchar will likely be reelected, but the other Senate seat and Governor's race are wide open. I've watched what the GOP has done to our neighboring state, Wisconsin. Can't say that I'm not a little terrified.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:13 PM on December 7, 2017 [31 favorites]


Are there other countries in the world where they routinely decide whether to have a government or not in two-week increments?

No. Other countries do theirs all in one hit at the start of the term and have to negotiate coalition governments out of hung parliaments. It can sometimes get messy and sometimes they need to even vote again.
posted by Talez at 6:22 PM on December 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump, December 9, 2011: "Why was the Hanukah celebration held in the White House two weeks early? @BarackObama wants to vacation in Hawaii in late December. Sad."

The White House today, via Mark Knoller: Pres applauds as his grandchildren light the Menorah, only partially visible to the TV cameras through the audience. By the Hebrew calendar, Hanukkah does not really begin until the evening of December 12th.

@Yair_Rosenberg: Tonight, Trump is hosting the White House Hanukkah party. Hanukkah is next week. In an early holiday miracle, this Trump tweet lasted for six years and came back to burn him.

HOW IS THERE ALWAYS A TWEET?

The guest list was also petty. No Democratic lawmakers, Reform Judaism leaders, or progressive Jewish activists.
posted by zachlipton at 6:37 PM on December 7, 2017 [49 favorites]


Breaking: Judge in Flynn case recuses himself
posted by jgirl at 6:47 PM on December 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Meanwhile, a new political leader arises from the mean streets of Los Angeles.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:01 PM on December 7, 2017 [21 favorites]


Did anyone else get an email today from an org called Truth In Public Comments and/or The Policy Lab?

They just emailed me asking me to verify a comment I made directly to the FCC about the net neutrality shitpony show and my response was basically a very enthusiastic FUCK YES I WROTE THAT COMMENT WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE?

http://www.startuppolicylab.org/about/

Anyone know anything about this? I can't find anything about the TiPC part yet.
posted by loquacious at 7:07 PM on December 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


I would be glad to see Rodney Frelinghuysen gone, but mostly because every time I hear his name, I hear this song in my head.
posted by jackbishop at 7:35 PM on December 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Post has more on the Vkontakte angle: Russian social media executive sought to help Trump campaign in 2016, emails show
An executive at a leading Russian social media company made several overtures to Donald Trump’s presidential campaign in 2016 — including days before the November election — urging the candidate to create a page on the website to appeal to Russian Americans and Russians.

The executive at Vkontakte, or VK, Russia’s equivalent to Facebook, emailed Donald Trump Jr. and social media director Dan Scavino in January and again in November of last year, offering to help promote Trump’s campaign to its nearly 100 million users, according to people familiar with the messages.

“It will be the top news in Russia,” Konstantin Sidorkov, who serves as VK’s director of partnership marketing, wrote on Nov. 5, 2016.
It's Rob Goldstone and Don Jr. again, but this bit stood out to me:
“Please feel free to send me whatever you have,” Scavino wrote to Goldstone on Jan. 19. “Thank you so much for looking out for Mr. Trump and his presidential campaign.”

A few days later, Sidorkov emailed Scavino, Trump Jr. and Donald Trump’s longtime assistant Rhona Graff.

“Nice to meet you and your team,” Sidorkov wrote, attaching information about VK and its social media reach.
My understanding is that Rhona was the conduit to Trump himself. Including her on the email, when you've already got the ear of the campaign's social media manager, that's weird. This also started in January 2016, when there were plenty of other Republicans still in the race. Did VK pitch their social network to any of them? Surely their partnership director would want to have as many partners as possible, right? Or did they just contact the Trump campaign for some reason or another?

This was also, as I posted upthread, the same broad time period that US white nationalists were setting up shop on VK.
posted by zachlipton at 7:58 PM on December 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


James O'Keefe is driving the actual Department of Justice agenda: Justice Department Moves To Investigate Planned Parenthood’s Fetal Tissue Practices
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:27 PM on December 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

(includes some brief recaps of stuff we talked about earlier today, and a lot of harassment, sorry)

** 2018 House:
-- Mentioned upthread, AZ-08 rep Trent Franks is resigning effective Jan 31 in light of (frankly bizarre) charges of sexual harassment charges of staff members. The district - suburbs NW of Phoenix - is pretty solid R (Trump 58-37, Romney 62-37), but we've seen weird special election results so far, and it would be hard for even a GOP replacement to be worse than Franks, who was very, very far right.

-- NV-04's Rubén Kihuen has been kicked out of the from the DCCC Frontline program, which helps vulnerable incumbents. He's faced pressure to resign in light of sexual harassment charges by campaign staffers. The district is Dem-leaning.

-- Blake Farenthold [TX-27] is facing a renewed House Ethics Committee investigation after media coverage of his settlement of sexual harassment charges of a staff member. Today, Rep. Mia Love [UT-04] called for Farenthold to resign. The district is fairly strong GOP.
** 2018 Senate:
-- Also mentioned earlier, Sen. Al Franken [D-MN] will be resigning in the light of several charges of sexual harassment. Gov Dayton [D] will be appointing a replacement, likely Lt Gov Tina Smith, who is not expected to run in the special election in 2018 (the winner would serve until 2020, and then back to the normal election schedule).

-- Former TN gov Phil Bredesen is running for the seat of retiring Sen. Bob Corker. Bredesen was quite popular, and was the last Democrat to win statewide office. On the other hand, that was 2006, and sometimes long retired candidates don't do so hot; also, he's 74. FWIW, people seemed to like his kickoff video (I can't evaluate this stuff). Cook Political has moved the race to Toss-up.

-- In light of the likely GOP candidates for Tim Kaine's seat in Virginia being two varieties of crazy people (neo-Confederate Corey Stewart and evangelical nutcase E.W. Jackson), the NRSC is trying to recruit Jim Gilmore. Gilmore was governor in the long ago times, and since has lost a number of races in embarrassing fashion. Kaine can sleep pretty well, I think.
** Odds & ends:
-- If you want to know more about various sexual harassment stories roiling state legislatures, this Carolyn Fiddler piece has a good roundup.

-- Mentioned earlier, in Virginia House of Delegates action, the Democrats have asked a judge to trigger a special election in in HD-28, where some voters got ballots for HD-88. There are also four districts getting recounts. Details there:
HD-28 – 12/21 | Dem trails by 82 votes

HD-40 – 12/13 & 12/14 | Dem trails by 106 votes

HD-68 – 12/20 | Dem leads by 336 votes

HD-94 – 12/19 | Dem trails by 10 votes
-- Pew Research survey has Trump approval at a new low of -31. Trump's numbers have fallen in every single demographic.

-- The Pennsylvania gerrymandering case entered its third day. So far, the state's (pro-gerrymander) case does not look very strong. The GOP is also trying very hard to keep their deliberations drawing the lines secret. If plaintiffs win this case, PA would be redistricted for 2018 elections, almost certainly handing Dems several seats.

-- Part 2 of 538 gerrymander podcast is up.
=> I'm behind on January special elections; if you have money burning a hole in your pocked, Ready2Vote has a list with donation links.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:03 PM on December 7, 2017 [41 favorites]


This slurring thing has been nagging at me. The WH says Trump's throat was dry.

When he got back from Asia last month he had that weird moment at the podium where he took a long water break mid-speech and used two hands to hold the bottle. (Starts at 9 sec.) Well when I looked for that clip I found this other clip of him drinking with two hands from February, and yet another one March. Dude is really freaking thirsty.

And that got me thinking of a health scare my mom had a couple of weeks ago. Her board and care called me in a panic because she was behaving very erratically. She has dementia but she's almost like a happy drunk; this was very upsetting. Turns out, she was so dehydrated that she was delusional. As soon as she was hydrated she was back to her usual self.

We know he eats 8 bajaillion mgs of sodium and drinks milkshakes. Someone get this man some water.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:10 PM on December 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


Other countries do theirs all in one hit at the start of the term and have to negotiate coalition governments out of hung parliaments. It can sometimes get messy and sometimes they need to even vote again.

Is it naive of me to prefer this, as it pushes the mess right under the voters' noses immediately, vs. giving things time to wind up, snap back, & over correct as they do for a two party system?
posted by Rat Spatula at 9:15 PM on December 7, 2017


Strange things are afoot at the Circle-FPB. Apparently not everybody is happy with the new regime so they've turned themselves into an internal underground, calling themselves...Dumbledore's Army.

Consumer Bureau’s New Leader Steers a Sudden Reversal.
Some employees, including a few of the bureau’s top officials, have welcomed their new leader. Others, pointing to Mr. Mulvaney’s earlier hostility toward the agency and its mission, are quietly resisting. One small group calls itself “Dumbledore’s Army,” according to two of the people who were familiar with their discussions. The name is a reference to a secret resistance force in the “Harry Potter” books.

An atmosphere of intense anxiety has taken hold, several employees said. In some cases, conversations between staff that used to take place by phone or text now happen almost exclusively in person or through encrypted messaging apps.
And if you've got Dumbledore's Army you need Werewolves hunting them down by tracking who says You-Know-Who's name: Seeking out members of "Dumbledore's Army," a conservative group just FOIA'd CFPB for all communications with the phrase “He-who-shall-not-be-named".
posted by scalefree at 9:29 PM on December 7, 2017 [50 favorites]


Bernie Sanders people need to stop with this caucus bullshit. I will protest that as hard as anything the Republicans are doing.
posted by bongo_x at 10:04 PM on December 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


They're searching for All communications sent or received that contain the words “Dumbledore,” “Dumbledore’s Army,” “Snape,” “Voldemort,” “He-who-shall-not-be-named,” “encrypted message,” OR “encrypted messaging.”

Head's up, folks: if you're planning on doing Resistance Communication, get out your 1337-speek 101, because most of those searches are going to be done with very literal search terms. Voldemort will show up; Voldie won't; \/0ld3m0rt won't. (And I thought it was "He who must not be named.") References to Mr. Riddle will also be ignored.

I hope they get swamped with emails planning someone kid's Harry Potter-themed birthday party.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:12 PM on December 7, 2017 [28 favorites]


Bernie Sanders people need to stop with this caucus bullshit. I will protest that as hard as anything the Republicans are doing.

Are you objecting to the findings of the joint commission? What specifically do you think is wrong with their recommendations? I don’t have the time to research each member on the commission, but their recommendations seem warranted (like holding actual vote counts and posting vote percentages even when candidates don’t get delegates) and the members were chosen by Clinton and Perez in addition to Sanders. Is there something I’m missing?
posted by cyphill at 10:25 PM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


In which the NYT is excoriated by Duncan J. Watts and David M. Rothschild, CJR: Don’t blame the election on fake news. Blame it on the media.

Por que no los dos?
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:32 PM on December 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Brian Stelter on money.cnn.com points out some of the attacks on Mueller now being pushed by Hannity and others.
posted by StrawberryPie at 10:33 PM on December 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


Breaking: Judge in Flynn case recuses himself
posted by jgirl at 6:47 PM on December 7 [+] [!]

Don't the recused usually give the reasons for recusal? I couldn't find one in the article. Could the reporter just not be arsed to dig it out, or can the recused party decline to give a reason?
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:09 PM on December 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


I think on The Rachel Maddow Show tonight they said that no explicit reason for the recusal was given.
posted by XMLicious at 11:18 PM on December 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


In which the NYT is excoriated by Duncan J. Watts and David M. Rothschild, CJR: Don’t blame the election on fake news. Blame it on

but seriously, if the 2016 US Presidential Election is America's Titanic, trust that we'll discover in time that EVERYBODY is to blame ... except the women and children, and everybody in steerage.
posted by philip-random at 12:29 AM on December 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


Are you objecting to the findings of the joint commission? What specifically do you think is wrong with their recommendations?

Caucuses are inherently anti-democratic by their nature, and as such should not be "fixed" (because you really can't fix them), but just eliminated.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:24 AM on December 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Brian Stelter on money.cnn.com points out some of the attacks on Mueller now being pushed by Hannity and others.

So, I should keep a list. "People criticizing Robert Mueller"

* Russian Foreign Ministry
* ...
posted by mikelieman at 2:13 AM on December 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


Seeking out members of "Dumbledore's Army," a conservative group just FOIA'd CFPB for all communications with the phrase “He-who-shall-not-be-named".

The Deatheaters have taken over the Ministry, so that makes sense. I bet somebody had one of those "Republicans for Voldemort" bumper stickers.

You'd think at some point the Trump crew they'd notice the skulls on their hats and have a "Are we the baddies?" moment, but that'd take some self-awareness. They probably think the skulls look cool.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:29 AM on December 8, 2017 [21 favorites]


topical: Blondie ft. Joan Jett - Doom or Destiny
(via Rolling Stone)
posted by progosk at 4:46 AM on December 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


I'm in favour of superdelegates, because the superdelegates serve an important function: they stop people getting elected who the voters love, that cannot work with the rest of the party. Superdelegates would have been very useful to kneecap Trump, for instance.

I mean, in practice, and especially with populist wave elections, it's hard to tell the voters that the candidate they like has no skills other than getting on television. Someone has to, though! It's a bad thing for democracy when the candidates people get excited about turn out to be completely incapable of delivering on their promises, and usually their colleagues know they don't have the goods.

Fine, fine, Don't Relitigate Kevin '07
posted by Merus at 5:10 AM on December 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


I mean, in practice, and especially with populist wave elections, it's hard to tell the voters that the candidate they like has no skills other than getting on television. Someone has to, though! It's a bad thing for democracy when the candidates people get excited about turn out to be completely incapable of delivering on their promises, and usually their colleagues know they don't have the goods.

You can't save people from themselves. You can only guide them with advice and hope they learn through experience

Voters aren't children. But they almost always need to witness the consequences of their stupid decisions in order to internalize a lesson.

They elected the Tea Party. It didn't save them. They elected extremists who do nothing. They elected Trump. He won't save them either.

This country is going to need to learn some very harsh lessons before it changes course. With luck, they won't be horrifically destructive.
posted by zarq at 5:20 AM on December 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


CNN Exclusive: Email shows effort to give Trump campaign WikiLeaks documents
Candidate Donald Trump, his son Donald Trump Jr. and others in the Trump Organization received an email in September 2016 offering a decryption key and website address for hacked WikiLeaks documents, according to an email provided to congressional investigators.
The September 4 email was sent during the final stretch of the 2016 presidential race -- two months after the hacked emails of the Democratic National Committee were made public and one month before WikiLeaks began leaking the contents of Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta's hacked emails.
The email came less than three weeks before WikiLeaks itself messaged Trump Jr. and began an exchange of direct messages on Twitter. Trump Jr. told investigators he had no recollection of the September email.
posted by PenDevil at 5:29 AM on December 8, 2017 [27 favorites]


You can't save people from themselves. You can only guide them with advice and hope they learn through experience

Yeah, but voters don't really have the tools to evaluate whether a particular politician has a good process for dealing with new problems. They only get to see the already worked-out policies; if the politician has a long history of service, you get to see how they handled smaller portfolios. In populist waves, though, that becomes a liability.

I am speaking generically (or, actually, rather specifically about a local politician). Blind Freddy could have worked out Trump was full of shit.

¿Por que no los dos?

The article in question says why not: fake news doesn't appear to have a lot of reach compared with a mainstream news article when you run the numbers. Breitbart and the Daily Caller, which launder fake news, do, but it's unlikely that they actually pushed people off the fence. They have an audience that's already 100% in the tank for what they do. Meanwhile, the NYT (which they examine in detail, with an assumption that other papers were probably fairly similar) overwhelmingly ran horserace articles, barely covered policy, and when they did it was not particularly informative. It's, frankly, negligent.
posted by Merus at 5:54 AM on December 8, 2017 [16 favorites]


Yeah, leotrotsky, the whole point of the joke was how obvious the Nazis were the baddies, how they reveled in the symbology. They DID know they were the baddies and they liked it. They didn’t all think of themselves as evil, but a lot of people value being bad.
posted by rikschell at 6:03 AM on December 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Asking a younger woman who works for you to carry your child (old-fashioned way or no!) is gross and invasive.

Asking this now, before I jump in the shower: were these women were hired for their work skills or their surrogacy potential?

And before this story sails off into the sunset: Conyers attorney: Congressman won't pay settlement back because it was 'cleared'

Also, Trump going to Florida is the "I'm not touching you" of campaigning.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:17 AM on December 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Yeah, but voters don't really have the tools to evaluate whether a particular politician has a good process for dealing with new problems. They only get to see the already worked-out policies; if the politician has a long history of service, you get to see how they handled smaller portfolios.

This is bullshit. Trump's failed business career was the subject of decades of articles. It didn't nearly the attention it deserved, because the New York Times was much too preoccupied with the intricacies of email server retention rules, but Trump was not a black box. There was plenty of information to see he was a fucking moron and a terrible manager his entire life. And by contrast, Clinton had decades of "smaller portfolios" that she excelled with. It didn't matter. Trump voters did not sit down and look at each candidate's record of implementing successful process and achieving results, they heard "only I can fix it" and "Mexicans took your jobs" and "Crooked Hilary EMAILS".

The voters are fucking stupid, scared and hateful. They are not rational or curious or deliberative. Giving them more empirical tools will solve nothing without a compelling narrative to counter the poison they're predisposed to want to believe.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:24 AM on December 8, 2017 [87 favorites]


I am amazed by how many people are saying "there must be more" about Franks, or that he must've suggested doing it the old-fashioned way for it to be a resignable offense. Treating female subordinates like walking wombs is appalling. Your congressional colleagues are not potential brood mares. On the horror show scale of male behavior that's been revealed lately, Franks ranks way up there.
posted by Mavri at 6:59 AM on December 8, 2017 [43 favorites]


The voters are fucking stupid, scared and hateful. They are not rational or curious or deliberative. Giving them more empirical tools will solve nothing without a compelling narrative to counter the poison they're predisposed to want to believe.


Which gets back to the bare fact that in order to have healthy democratic systems, voters require clean information to consume, just like in order to have healthy communities, individuals need clean water to drink.

You are free to swim in a muddy creek, use gray water for some things, and so on, but cleanliness standards for drinking water must be established and enforced. Especially when you are providing it to others.

Similarly, the idea that, e.g., the answer to hate speech is more speech is simply untenable in the real world. Freedom of speech has to be limited where core democratic processes are concerned. Lies and propaganda are toxic, and some people want to poison others.
posted by perspicio at 7:05 AM on December 8, 2017 [21 favorites]


Candidate Donald Trump, his son Donald Trump Jr. and others in the Trump Organization received an email in September 2016 offering a decryption key and website address for hacked WikiLeaks documents

I'm sure they immediately passed this on to the FBI as any non-colluding entity would do.
posted by diogenes at 7:06 AM on December 8, 2017 [33 favorites]


I'm in favour of superdelegates, because the superdelegates serve an important function: they stop people getting elected who the voters love, that cannot work with the rest of the party. Superdelegates would have been very useful to kneecap Trump, for instance.


You know what else would have stopped Trump? Approval voting. Approval voting should have some of the same moderating effects that superdelegates have, without having the bad antidemocratic aftertaste. Both parties would benefit from approval voting in the primaries.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:09 AM on December 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


The popular vote compact would also have stopped Trump. And Bush.
posted by wierdo at 7:25 AM on December 8, 2017 [18 favorites]


Treating female subordinates like walking wombs is appalling. Your congressional colleagues are not potential brood mares. On the horror show scale of male behavior that's been revealed lately, Franks ranks way up there.

@jonrog1: “Look the whole ‘Handmaids Tale’ cosplay demonstrations is a little heavy-handed-oh-FUCK that guy was literally going full Handmaids Tale what the actual fuck?!”
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:25 AM on December 8, 2017 [40 favorites]


I'm not a fan of superdelegates but I fucking hate caucuses, not impressed by the restrictions to sign up to vote in primaries, and also hate the current schedule we have. There's no reason NY and CA should be that late in the schedule and I do understand why the Dems are worried about ratfucking.

- Get rid of caucuses as they're wildly undemocratic, ableist, and classist.
- Get rid of superdelegates, they serve no purpose other than to allow some folks to indulge in conspiracy theories rather than face reality.
- Have voter registration at least a week before each primary if not the day of the primary.
- Push up South Carolina and Nevada to make them on par with the whiter and more rural Iowa and New Hampshire and put New York and California earlier in the schedule.
posted by asteria at 7:26 AM on December 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


- Get rid of superdelegates, they serve no purpose other than to allow some folks to indulge in conspiracy theories rather than face reality.

If the Republicans had superdelegates they could have stopped the insanity for the slightly less insane Ted Cruz. Just saying.
posted by Talez at 7:31 AM on December 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Can we please not debate voting methods and primary scheduling and primaries vs caucuses yet again?
posted by medusa at 7:32 AM on December 8, 2017 [22 favorites]


I am amazed by how many people are saying "there must be more" about Franks, or that he must've suggested doing it the old-fashioned way for it to be a resignable offense. Treating female subordinates like walking wombs is appalling

Absolutely! But also fairly standard for the Republican party so it makes sense people might think there is more there. There's a rapist in the White House and they're about to vote in a serial harasser of young teens. Treating women like walking wombs might as well be a campaign slogan for the GOP. It's not that what he didn't isn't horrific enough, it's that it doesn't sound horrific enough for his side.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 7:36 AM on December 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Inspired by today's Krugman I called my senators to ask why they had let funding expire for the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) back in September. Answers were not forthcoming. Grassley's office pointed out that he had supported the Keep Kids' Insurance Dependable and Secure (KIDS) Act but that it hadn't come up for a vote. I said that was probably because it didn't refer to a source of funding and so was more of a fantasy than an actual bill which could pass Congress. I said that I was aware Senator Grassley had defended his vote to increase the national debt by a trillion dollars, including slashing the Estate Tax, by saying "I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing, as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it's on booze or women or movies". I pointed out that poor children generally did not spend money on booze, because they are children, or on women, because they are children, or on movies, unless perhaps they had received some pocket money, and so I thought maybe Senator Grassley could have more sympathy for poor children who need medical care and could maintain some of the tax that super-rich individuals like President Trump have to pay when they die and leave their estates to their already-wealthy children, and use that money to allow poor children to access medical care and reduce the chance of them dying in agony. In summary I said that the senators should ideally stop being evil and instead start indicating that they care about other human beings apart from their wealthy donors.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:37 AM on December 8, 2017 [100 favorites]


I am amazed by how many people are saying "there must be more" about Franks, or that he must've suggested doing it the old-fashioned way for it to be a resignable offense. Treating female subordinates like walking wombs is appalling. Your congressional colleagues are not potential brood mares. On the horror show scale of male behavior that's been revealed lately, Franks ranks way up there.

I'm not. Put aside the cohort that is people of power - almost all men - who cannot fathom the idea that they might need to constrain what they talk about for anyone's sensibilities other than their own; we know they're awful.

All these other people who hear details of conversations and think "that's all?" are operating from two camps. There's of course some people who have just internalized the idea that they just have to be set upon by awful superiors people who outrank them and look at this stuff and think "man I wish I was only slapped in the face every other hour rather than the beatings with a cudgel, that would be so much more relaxing."

But I think the ones that seem sort of amazing to us are just people who have committed the sin of being relatively decent people with a vague common sense and an ability to "read the room" when they converse with coworkers. They want to go to a place of work where they actually relate to other humans, have friendships, talk about their lives, chat about the game, etc. So they hear about a line of conversation that they could imagine having with someone they're friendly with at work - and family issues, even fertility and pregnancy, are part of that - and they contextualize it as if it was in a situation where two people with actual senses of boundaries are having it. It would be a laudable effort to view everyone as worthy of trust and respect if it wasn't maligning these people who are being mistreated.

I think these people just need to be reminded that these seemingly human and okay conversations are radically different when someone jumps into them without that informal hey is this cool to talk about with you negotiation we decent people do without really thinking about it. They're remembering polite conversations between friends when they need to be remembering all the times they helped someone ditch a conversation with some creeper.
posted by phearlez at 7:38 AM on December 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


Just saw this one:
Advocate: Sarah Sanders: Trump OK With Businesses Hanging Anti-Gay Signs

Hours after oral arguments concluded in the Masterpiece Cakeshop case — where a Colorado baker argued to the Supreme Court that his religion allows him to refuse service to gay people — Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders was confronted on legalized discrmination during today's White House press briefing.

"The lawyer for the solicitor general's office for the administration said today in the Supreme Court if it would be legal, possible for a baker to put a sign in his window saying we don't bake cakes for gay weddings," The New York Times's Michael Shear asked. "Does the president agree that that would be ok?"

"The president certainly supports religious liberty and that's something he talked about during the campaign and has upheld since taking office," Sanders replied.

When pressed on whether that included support for signs that deny service to gay people, Sanders responded: "I believe that would include that."
posted by delfin at 7:39 AM on December 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


Mod note: Can we please not debate voting methods and primary scheduling and primaries vs caucuses yet again?

Officially echoing this. We're not in a major election cycle and boy howdy will we have plenty of opportunities to dicker about this once we are. If someone wants to do some searching and put together a roundup of previous MeFi discussions about various electoral methods and link to that, go for it, but let's not start from scratch again right here and now.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:39 AM on December 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


and they're about to vote in a serial harasser of young teens.

Jeff Jacoby, resident lonely conservative columnist at the Boston Globe: It's abortion, stupid. (Good article)

I've been saying this for years: there's a significant amount of people who will vote for people who are the bleedingest bleeding of liberals in everything else, as long as they are anti-abortion. Wish I knew what to do about it.
posted by Melismata at 7:42 AM on December 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


As someone who has developed a habit of calling and complaining to my Republican senators' offices, my aim in doing so goes beyond simply adding to a tally of angry constituents. I aim to use impassioned arguments of basic decency to make my senators' staffers feel bad. I am sure a disproportionate number of them intend to go on to political careers promoting the same kind of policies and behaviors championed by their current employers.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:42 AM on December 8, 2017 [37 favorites]


Reversing the proposition doesn't make a lot of sense when the majority is lots bigger than the minority. The impacts are of different sizes, right?
posted by puddledork at 7:47 AM on December 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


I am amazed by how many people are saying "there must be more" about Franks, or that he must've suggested doing it the old-fashioned way for it to be a resignable offense. Treating female subordinates like walking wombs is appalling. Your congressional colleagues are not potential brood mares. On the horror show scale of male behavior that's been revealed lately, Franks ranks way up there.

As I've been thinking about both Franken and Frank, I've really been focusing on how something that only takes a moment for a harasser to do creates huge, long-lasting pain/fear/discouragement for the victim. The emphasis has to be on the harm to the victim, not on how long it took to do the harm or whether harm was consciously intended. Of course it does huge harm to someone to make them feel that their boss feels entitled to ask for surrogacy. I mean, that's hugely contemptuous, destabilizing, makes you feel like your job is precarious, makes you think about your body/sexuality/reproductive history when you just want to do your damn job - it's awful.

It's scary to think that one man with disproportionate power can just toss off one comment and totally wreck your work situation, and I think it's easier for us to feel like we are not that vulnerable to one instance.

I am reminded of that Laurie Penny piece that was linked yesterday about capitalism, the alt-right and misogyny. We are vulnerable to sexist and bigoted abuse on the job because the economic system we live under means you're powerless if you're a subordinate. You just have to deal if someone is more famous than you or is your boss, and they can do whatever they want. One little "la la I think I'll be a little inappropriate today, just for fun" can crash your whole work life even though it means nothing to them. This is exactly where our economic system and racism/misogyny/homophobia intersect. The whole thing is propped up by the idea that if you're powerful, you never have to think about how your actions affect others - you can casually destroy someone and never even notice.
posted by Frowner at 7:54 AM on December 8, 2017 [46 favorites]


Advocate: Sarah Sanders: Trump OK With Businesses Hanging Anti-Gay Signs

Part of an ongoing pattern: Trump Administration Quietly Rolls Back Civil Rights Efforts Across Federal Government
posted by zarq at 7:59 AM on December 8, 2017 [19 favorites]


It's abortion, stupid. (Good article)

It's also paywalled, so if you don't feel like waging that battle this morning, try this archive.is link instead.

as long as they are anti-abortion. Wish I knew what to do about it.

They're only anti-abortion so much as it's only those other harlots that want to get one. When it's them, or their children, they're suddenly in favor of a little bit of choice. So, it's more like "it's the authoritarianism, stupid."
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:02 AM on December 8, 2017 [19 favorites]


there's a significant amount of people who will vote for people who are the bleedingest bleeding of liberals in everything else, as long as they are anti-abortion. Wish I knew what to do about it.

I think getting the Supreme Court and then finding ways to make Roe v Wade iron clad is the only hope. Also, using whatever machinations that the right has used to chip away at it to build it back up.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:03 AM on December 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


This morning I'm seeing stories about Franken's departure being good for the GOP's control of the Senate:

AP: In Franken’s fall, sudden Senate pickup chance for GOP

NBC News: Franken exit could be game-changer for control of Senate
posted by StrawberryPie at 8:13 AM on December 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


there's a significant amount of people who will vote for people who are the bleedingest bleeding of liberals in everything else, as long as they are anti-abortion. Wish I knew what to do about it.

There was this piece linked to in that op-ed by an anti-choice activist, who was fretting that because of candidates like Moore, the younger generation was disassociating themselves from conservative positions like anti-choice. And she also points out that they allow pro-choice activists to take the moral high ground, pointing out that hey, anti-choice is actually about policing women's sexuality.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:15 AM on December 8, 2017 [10 favorites]


Egg gives significantly more than Flake’s $100.

“Stand Up Republic, a 501(c)4 group co-founded by former independent anti-Trump presidential candidate Evan McMullin, is spending $500,000 on digital and TV ads that ask Alabama conservatives to reject Republican nominee Roy Moore’s Senate bid.”
posted by chris24 at 8:17 AM on December 8, 2017 [62 favorites]


This morning I'm seeing stories about Franken's departure being good for the GOP's control of the Senate:

It *could* be, Minnesota is purple, really. But in the 2018 environment, and with Klobuchar up for re-election - she's quite popular, and when you have both senators up, they almost always go to the same party - it's still a Likely Dem election.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:18 AM on December 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Why does chris24 hate my links in the Moore thread? WE MAY NEVER KNOW.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:18 AM on December 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


AP: In Franken’s fall, sudden Senate pickup chance for GOP

NBC News: Franken exit could be game-changer for control of Senate

It's true that the 2016 margin was pretty thin in Clinton's favor in MN but I don't exactly see how the clusterfuck of the Trump presidency turns 2018 into the kind of GOP wave that would push an R into the Senate. But then again, I'm going to go TTTCS and knock on wood, etc.
posted by dis_integration at 8:21 AM on December 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


So, it's more like "it's the authoritarianism, stupid."

The point I was trying to make is that for a lot of people, it really is just abortion. I don't disagree with you; a lot of people, mostly bad men, are all for controlling women's bodies. But, as the article points out, there's a lot of ordinary folks who just think killing babies bad, and that's why they are voting for Moore and others. And I wish I understood this attitude better (so I could combat it).
posted by Melismata at 8:23 AM on December 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


Remember: Anything the Democrats do is good for Republicans, at all times, always. If Democrats make a mistake, it's an opportunity for the Republicans. If Democrats do something right, it only means they're being set up for a fall by the Republicans.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:24 AM on December 8, 2017 [20 favorites]


But, as the article points out, there's a lot of ordinary folks who just think killing babies bad, and that's why they are voting for Moore and others. And I wish I understood this attitude better (so I could combat it).

Indoctrination, pure and simple. It's worth remembering that this has only been a core belief of the evangelical set for about 40 years, when they needed something to replace the overt racism that their movement was founded on that was no longer acceptable.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:27 AM on December 8, 2017 [34 favorites]


It's abortion, stupid. (Good article)

I'd hoped that article could have explained to me why single issue abortion voters exist. It didn't, and I've yet to see anything that does.
I can easily understand why people are against abortion, even though I strongly disagree. It's a position that has it's own logic, regardless if people are religious or not. But as the single issue that determines wether you vote for a rapist or not, wether you vote against your own interests or not, etc., etc., it makes no sense. Specially, it makes no sense if the anti-abortion person you are voting for at the same time stands for policies that actively harm mothers and babies, and most of the anti-abortion people do. If you care for babies, why do you care more for the unborn babies than for the live? Can anyone explain that twisted logic? I know many of you are asking the same questions, but has anyone ever gotten an answer?

As long as I haven't seen answers, specially to If you care for babies, why do you care more for the unborn babies than for the live?, I'm going to read anti-abortion as a dogwhistle.
posted by mumimor at 8:29 AM on December 8, 2017 [16 favorites]


This morning I'm seeing stories about Franken's departure being good for the GOP's control of the Senate:

Of course, because that's the narrative that will grab the most eyeballs. It doesn't matter whether it's particularly plausible or likely, because it's a hypothetical, and is a framing that will make this story more suspenseful and narrative-like than what it is: dude is resigning and the governor will appoint another Democrat to take his place.

I noticed, maybe 15 years ago or so, that so much news coverage (first it was TV, now it's print, too) has become some version of "what might happen" or "what does this person think might happen," and is really mostly substance-free. This is not a new or original observation, but the 24-hour news cycle really did create a new need for constant fresh content and very quick coverage and reactions when things do happen. Thus, now there is continuous demand for a whole bunch of coverage that we frankly don't need, and we also get a bunch of writers and talking heads who have to fill airtime or column space without any new happenings to write about, or time to research things that do happen.

So we get all of these "this might happen" or "this could happen" stories, and a bunch of talking heads on our TVs, constantly asking one another their opinions and hypotheticals, and like magic: lots of content that requires no research. Any story about "what might happen in Minnesota," at this point, is mostly space-filling bullshit. (I've really honed my skills at recognizing and tuning out filler content--turns out it's like 90% of what strikes my awareness.)
posted by LooseFilter at 8:33 AM on December 8, 2017 [38 favorites]


I dunno about getting a Republican senator in MN - I don't think we have enough big Republican figures here, people are fired up like nothing I've ever seen over Trump, and Sanders won the primary here. I don't think we're as purple as all that; I think people went redder than normal due to Clinton Derangement Syndrome. Honestly, I am hoping for a strong swing to the Democrats in 2018. This is a more-sensible-than-average state with, still, a strong legacy from Democratic and Republican candidates who bucked the national trends. Trump didn't win the primary here, either.
posted by Frowner at 8:38 AM on December 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


My son attended a Catholic preschool last year. The same facility also had an adult daycare, senior center and Meals-on-Wheels kitchen, and the check-in kiosk for the seniors usually has a few local event typed flyers taped around. Before the election, there was one noting that TRUMP was the ONLY PRO-LIFE CANDIDATE! YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO, CATHOLICS!. About 5 months after the election there was one admonishing seniors to OPPOSE TRUMP'S EVIL AWFUL SENIOR-KILLING BUDGET (remember that whole thing with noted ghoul Mick Mulvaney wanting to eliminate funding for Meals-on-Wheels?)

The irony just about knocked me over where I stood.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:38 AM on December 8, 2017 [50 favorites]


I don't think we're as purple as all that; I think people went redder than normal due to Clinton Derangement Syndrome.

Maybe? The House delegation is 7-3 Dems, but on the other hand, the GOP controls both houses of the legislature (Senate by a seat, House by 19).
posted by Chrysostom at 8:42 AM on December 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


The fact that Klobuchar is up for re-election that year makes it a much more palatable election for the Dems, because all their voter mobilization is going to do double duty. Very easy to imagine her and whoever runs for the Franken seat (since Smith if appointed apparently won't seek reelection?) campaigning as a joint ticket, too.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:44 AM on December 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


mumimor: Specially, it makes no sense if the anti-abortion person you are voting for at the same time stands for policies that actively harm mothers and babies, and most of the anti-abortion people do. If you care for babies, why do you care more for the unborn babies than for the live?

Because you are A) a low information voter, B) trust the people around you to act in good faith, and C) the people at your church, especially people in authority, howl obsessively about abortion but make no noise about anything else?

You therefore assume end up assuming abortion is the only salient thing about the candidate, when the reality is that you're being used.
posted by ragtag at 8:46 AM on December 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


Specially, it makes no sense if the anti-abortion person you are voting for at the same time stands for policies that actively harm mothers and babies, and most of the anti-abortion people do. If you care for babies, why do you care more for the unborn babies than for the live? Can anyone explain that twisted logic?

My impression is that liberals are pretty focused on empirical outcomes- on what actually happens. But many conservatives, as far as I can tell, are focused on having the right intention. I'm sure that other commenters will take up the mantle of explaining why that is bad and dumb but yeah, that's what we with our results-oriented mindset would think. I'm sure that many of them for their part think that the results-oriented mindset is corrupting, because (for example) we give clean needles to drug addicts instead of punishing them, etc. We're not supposed to just allow things to happen if those things are wrong, they think. We should stand against it.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:48 AM on December 8, 2017 [26 favorites]


But, as the article points out, there's a lot of ordinary folks who just think killing babies bad, and that's why they are voting for Moore and others. And I wish I understood this attitude better (so I could combat it).

Indoctrination, pure and simple. It's worth remembering that this has only been a core belief of the evangelical set for about 40 years, when they needed something to replace the overt racism that their movement was founded on that was no longer acceptable.

Also worth remembering that "killing babies are bad" isn't even an opinion they hold in good faith, because if they really did they'd support 1. sex education to prevent unexpected pregnancies 2. readily available contraceptives and birth control 3. comprehensive fully-funded medical care for pregnant women (heck, all women). 4. The same for infants.

Their policy choices are not consistent with a desire to minimize abortions, but they are consistent with a desire to punish women for having sex.

It's bad faith all the way down.

They also don't really believe abortion is murder, if they did they'd advocate all women who have abortions to be charged with murder and sent to prison.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:53 AM on December 8, 2017 [54 favorites]


MN is more of a populist state than a liberal or conservative state.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:53 AM on December 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


My impression is that liberals are pretty focused on empirical outcomes- on what actually happens. But many conservatives, as far as I can tell, are focused on having the right intention.
This makes a lot of sense, but it still doesn't explain the single-issue voting. Conservatives, and specially religious conservatives in other countries are against abortion too, but I haven't seen it be a single issue platform anywhere, not even in Italy or Spain, where the church has a strong hold on many conservatives.
posted by mumimor at 8:55 AM on December 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Mod note: Y'all I'm gonna peg "what's with one-issue anti-abortion voters" as another topic where a brief visit in passing is understandable but digging in from scratch all over again isn't really a great fit for the catch-all.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:56 AM on December 8, 2017 [16 favorites]


I spend winters out of state. Consequently, from the Inauguration onward I was using my (Wisconsin area code) cell phone to call Senator Ron Johnson's office on the regular. After a few weeks, my calls always went straight to voicemail, which I assumed meant that the lines were filled by other angry constituents. Then I returned home and began using our land line or my office phone. Once again I got through, but only for a few weeks. Thinking about it, it's been months since I spoke to an actual human being in his office.

Am I paranoid or is there a chance they're using software to send known dissidents straight to voice mail? Anyone else have a similar experience?
posted by carmicha at 8:58 AM on December 8, 2017 [16 favorites]


This morning I'm seeing stories about Franken's departure being good for the GOP's control of the Senate

Democrats Will Likely Hold Franken’s Seat, But Minnesota’s Not As Blue As It Seems Really, Minnesota is a purple state. Hillary Clinton beat President Trump by only 1.5 points in Minnesota — less than her 2.1-point margin in the national popular vote. In our partisan lean calculation,3 Minnesota is just 0.5 percentage points more Democratic than the nation. In other words, Klobuchar’s landslide win might have been a bit of an aberration. Back in 2008, another very good year for Democrats, Franken first won his Senate seat by just 312 votes.

This is all a slightly complicated way of saying that Minnesota is likely to stay blue in 2018, but not because of anything fundamental about Minnesota. Instead, Democrats’ advantage comes almost entirely from the friendly political environment, which can change.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:18 AM on December 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


This makes a lot of sense, but it still doesn't explain the single-issue voting. Conservatives, and specially religious conservatives in other countries are against abortion too, but I haven't seen it be a single issue platform anywhere, not even in Italy or Spain, where the church has a strong hold on many conservatives.

Do those countries and churches have their own everpresent media machines that have spent fifty+ years pounding Manichean ideas into their audiences, howling propaganda, obliterating nuance and presenting complicated issues as simple good-vs-evil binaries?

'Cause we kind of have that here.
posted by delfin at 9:18 AM on December 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


The article in question says why not: fake news doesn't appear to have a lot of reach compared with a mainstream news article when you run the numbers. Breitbart and the Daily Caller, which launder fake news, do, but it's unlikely that they actually pushed people off the fence. They have an audience that's already 100% in the tank for what they do.

Respectfully, I need to disagree with this position of the punditry. I watched my father's politics slide from reasonable conservative to wing-nut owing largely to the Overton window shift seen on Faux Nooz, which in his retirement he consumed many hours of. I've also seen reasonably intelligent acquaintances repeat Breitbartian and InfoWarsian propaganda as rationale for their odious political choices. It's clearly a combination of heavy propaganda rotation on their right-canted newsfeeds coupled with tepid defense of reality by the mainstream. And the pundits conveniently neglect the evidence that much of the fake news via social media was precisely targeted to specific individuals in swing areas of swing states by Cambridge Analytica. So, yes, "small" effect big enough to swing the election to a candidate who lost the popular vote. By a lot.
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:21 AM on December 8, 2017 [22 favorites]


Metafilter: A brief visit in passing is understandable but digging in from scratch all over again isn't really a great fit.

[Did I do that right?]
posted by Preserver at 9:26 AM on December 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


And not to abuse the edit window, but I forgot to add that the mainstream media's tendency to waffle on facts that are painful for the right-wing stems not is small part from the effectiveness of the right-wing propaganda machine built up over the last half-century. MSM are businesses that compete with these propaganda outlets for advertising dollars, and they hope to attract some of the eyeballs and earballs of this recently minted constituency. This results in management sometimes wanting to soft-peddle the bad news in hopes of retaining some of the wing-nutian crowd. So even the MSM tepidness can be attributed to the fake news machine.
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:29 AM on December 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


Metafilter: A brief visit in passing is understandable but digging in from scratch all over again isn't really a great fit.

[Did I do that right?]

Yes and no.
posted by Rykey at 9:31 AM on December 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


Bella DePaulo in The Washington Post: I study liars. I’ve never seen one like President Trump.
One category of lies was so small that when we reported the results, we just tucked them into a footnote. Those were cruel lies, told to hurt or disparage others. For example, one person told a co-worker that the boss wanted to see him when he really didn’t, “so he’d look like a fool.” Just 0.8 percent of the lies told by the college students and 2.4 percent of the lies told by the community members were mean-spirited.

The most stunning way Trump’s lies differed from our participants’ was in their cruelty. An astonishing 50 percent of Trump’s lies were hurtful or disparaging.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:37 AM on December 8, 2017 [90 favorites]


Kevin Drum, Mother Jones: Fox News: Men Are All at the Mercy of Anonymous Accusers Now
The conservative take on all this has come into sharper focus over the past few weeks:
  • There sure are a lot creepy liberals, aren’t there?
  • We are all at risk of having our lives ruined by radical lefty feminists who will get us fired over the slightest non-PC remark.
In a just world, this strategy would be laughable. But in this world? I’m not so sure it won’t work.
It's a depressing bottom line but I guess I can see Fox running with this and throwing up enough of a smokescreen to get by. The article points to the deafening silence from Wall Street, for example, compared to Hollywood.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:38 AM on December 8, 2017 [10 favorites]


Am I paranoid or is there a chance they're using software to send known dissidents straight to voice mail? Anyone else have a similar experience?

If they're getting the calls on a smartphone, it'd be easy to set up an app. An office phone, probably not so much; it's easy to block unwanted calls, especially anything from a number set to show "not listed," but not easy to filter them to voicemail.

But there could be a less-than-obvious method that didn't show up with a bit of searching.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:39 AM on December 8, 2017


An office phone, probably not so much; it's easy to block unwanted calls, especially anything from a number set to show "not listed," but not easy to filter them to voicemail.

Nah, it'd take all of 30 seconds on an average office PBX system. Routing calls is what they do.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 9:48 AM on December 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


Am I paranoid or is there a chance they're using software to send known dissidents straight to voice mail?

If they're running some sort of an IVR (which seems likely), it is probably reasonably easy to send out of state area codes directly to voice mail, and only marginally more difficult to set up a database of "cranks" that also go to voice mail. Further, such a system could be programmed to pretend that it is recording a voice mail message, then discard it.
posted by Death and Gravity at 9:49 AM on December 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Am I paranoid or is there a chance they're using software to send known dissidents straight to voice mail? Anyone else have a similar experience?

This is totally a derail, but here's the quick and dirty: Yes, they can put people on a blacklist that auto-routes to voicemail based on Caller ID info. It's trivial on most PBXs, and they can automate it. With a decent VoIP phone, you can literally program a button on the phone to instantly blacklist the current caller.

If you'd like to test them, it's pretty easy to do so: get a Google Voice number to hide yourself behind. Make sure it's a local area code. Set that Google Voice number to call forward to the office you want to call. Call your Google Voice number from your cell phone, you'll be automatically forwarded to the office. The caller ID they will receive should be the Google Voice number and not your own cell phone number. See if you start getting through.

Source: I'm a VoIP tech who deals with several different PBXs on a daily basis.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 9:55 AM on December 8, 2017 [58 favorites]


In good news, MSNBC is reinstating Sam Seder, after firing him over bullshit dug up by Mike Cernovich.

Good.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:13 AM on December 8, 2017 [19 favorites]


WaPo just released their take on the Trump Jr. Wikileaks story broken by CNN earlier today. They throw a lot of cold water on it, reporting, crucially, that the email was dated 9/14, not 9/4, as earlier described by CNN. This changes the timeline significantly, since the hacked emails were public by 9/14, but not 9/4.
posted by scarylarry at 10:22 AM on December 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


Re the CNN mistake about the dates: this is a bad development, and will be weaponized by Fox and others to claim the MSM made up fake stories, attacking Trump, it's all lies, etc.
posted by StrawberryPie at 10:30 AM on December 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


I am amazed by how many people are saying "there must be more" about Franks, or that he must've suggested doing it the old-fashioned way for it to be a resignable offense.

I think a lot of it has to do with how he quickly resigned before the story barely came out, while other Republicans are basically saying "I committed sexual assault, so what?". And he's a known bat shit crazy person, so it's not like anyone believes he feels overwhelming shame or remorse.
posted by bongo_x at 10:32 AM on December 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


LooseFilter: I noticed, maybe 15 years ago or so, that so much news coverage (first it was TV, now it's print, too) has become some version of "what might happen" or "what does this person think might happen," and is really mostly substance-free. This is not a new or original observation, but the 24-hour news cycle really did create a new need for constant fresh content and very quick coverage and reactions when things do happen.

If it were up to me, I'd have maybe have of that stuff replaced with "What did happen", even for things that have no particular relevance to current events, or that do have relevance but are easily forgotten/misunderstood by readers. So, more headlines along the lines of HERE'S HOW ECONOMIC POLICY WORKS (with clarity on just how much less federal money goes to foreign aid than people assume), CREATIONISM REMAINS BOGUS (or maybe other more life-threatening pseudosciences like vaccine denial), etc.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 10:46 AM on December 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Beware of the Killian Gambit.
posted by vibrotronica at 10:47 AM on December 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


A neurologist writing for Stat News (owned by the Boston Globe): I’m a brain specialist. I think Trump should be tested for a degenerative brain disease
Every day of my working life, I evaluate people with brain injuries. It falls to me to make decisions about what is normal and what is not, what can improve and what will not, whether or not my patients can work, what kind of work they can do, and pretty much everything else.

In turning my attention to the president, I see worrisome symptoms that fall into three main categories: problems with language and executive function; problems with social cognition and behavior; and problems with memory, attention, and concentration. None of these are symptoms of being a bad or mean person. Nor do they require spelunking into the depths of his psyche to understand. Instead, they raise concern for a neurocognitive disease process in the same sense that wheezing raises the alarm for asthma.

Here’s the evidence on which I base my conclusion that it would be prudent for the president to be tested for a brain disorder.
He also goes into the ethics of long-distance diagnosis.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:48 AM on December 8, 2017 [71 favorites]


I am reading that Murkowski is defending the estate tax cut as... helpful to young fishermen? Living in 2017 is so disorienting.
posted by prefpara at 11:32 AM on December 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


I am reading that Murkowski is defending the estate tax cut as... helpful to young fishermen?

4324 Alaska residents died in 2015 [pdf].

Only 31 estates in Alaska were required to file an estate tax return in 2015 (0.7%). Note: this doesn't mean all 31 of those estates actually had an estate tax liability -- so few Alaskans owed estate tax that the total tax liability reported on all Alaska residents' estate tax returns could not be reported while maintaining taxpayer anonymity.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:46 AM on December 8, 2017 [33 favorites]


The Times has a story, complete with sobering graphics, charting the additional deaths in Puerto Rico after Maria.

WaPo, Philip Rucker and Josh Dawsey, Dina Powell, deputy national security adviser, to depart Trump White House:
Deputy national security adviser Dina Powell, a driving force behind the Trump administration’s Middle East policy, plans to leave the White House as part of an anticipated wave of departures following President Trump’s first year in office, according to four senior administration officials.
Get ready for a lot of stories like this at the one-year mark.

WaPo just released their take on the Trump Jr. Wikileaks story broken by CNN earlier today. They throw a lot of cold water on it, reporting, crucially, that the email was dated 9/14, not 9/4, as earlier described by CNN. This changes the timeline significantly, since the hacked emails were public by 9/14, but not 9/4.

The date discrepancy is an issue, though it's unclear whether CNN got it wrong or there were multiple emails or what happened. The real question though is what was inside the encrypted bundle; it would be weird to send someone a decryption key for emails that were already public. Or, indeed, whether there even was an encrypted archive and the whole thing wasn't a phishing attempt.

Also, DOT withdrew its planned regulations to require airlines to disclose baggage fees at the time of purchase, because when coal miners heard Trump say "I will never stop fighting for you" during the campaign, I'm sure they mentally added "to not know how much the airline will charge you" to the end of that sentence.

Oh, and Mueller's team seized 36 laptops and other devices during their raid on Manafort's home, which kind of sounds like a lot unless they were grabbing electric toothbrushes and Cuisinarts out of spite.
posted by zachlipton at 11:51 AM on December 8, 2017 [37 favorites]


It's the Internet of Things. They probably had to take his thermostat and light bulbs just to be on the safe side.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:58 AM on December 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


It says 36 laptops and other devices; a lot of those are probably hard drives or Fitbits or Tamagotchi or whatever creates those perfect facial mask replicas for Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:58 AM on December 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


Mueller's team seized 36 laptops and other devices during their raid on Manafort's home, which kind of sounds like a lot

My home, which contains a married couple, two adult children, and my computer-illiterate father (he has a non-smart phone), easily has 15 laptops, three (inactive) desktops, 7 smartphones (three inactive), a small handful of non-smart phones, an iPad, and quite possibly another half a dozen laptops dating back to Windows 3.1.

Manafort probably doesn't collect archaic computer gear, but a family that updates their hardware every time Apple releases a new edition could easily have 36 internet-empowered devices that they hadn't yet purged.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:00 PM on December 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Um. Gov. Rick Snyder gets to set the special election date to replace Conyers, and he's picked a primary on August 7, with the general November 6. So Detroit just gets to not have a representative for 11 months because they have a GOP governor.
posted by zachlipton at 12:02 PM on December 8, 2017 [26 favorites]


"Other devices" can include portable drives? Oh wow. My number of device just jumped into "several dozen." I think I only have five or sex portable drives with cords, but I have literally dozens of flash drives of various capacity levels.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:02 PM on December 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Here’s the evidence on which I base my conclusion that it would be prudent for the president to be tested for a brain disorder.

My immediate concern for him and the country both is that if there's the slightest chance this is true, he needs to be tested, diagnosed and treated, pronto. Nobody should live with an untreated illness, and the country should not be governed by the medically unfit.

My secondary concern is that, after everything goes kaboom, this is going to be the GOP's version of the "troubled loner" narrative whenever the mass murderer is white. We didn't know he was sick, see, this was something no one could have predicted, it's so sad, but I guess it's good that that was literally the only thing that went wrong here. And nobody learns anything from what's getting broken right now.

I mean, I know there's a roughly zero probability chance that Republicans would learn anything from this anyway, but still.
posted by middleclasstool at 12:03 PM on December 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


Let he who is without 36 laptops at home throw the first stone.

Yeah, I, uh. I was just trying to do the math on old hard drives and flash drives and assorted devices I have stuffed in my basement and various nooks and crannies, and let's just say, after twenty odd years in tech support roles, my house is looking pretty transparent.
posted by instead of three wishes at 12:05 PM on December 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


I thought agreeing with Bill Kristol was bad. Now I'm agreeing with Joe fucking Walsh:

Joe Walsh @WalshFreedom
And by the way @FoxNews, Robert Mueller is an American hero.
Marine, Vietnam Veteran, he has dedicated his life to serving this country and keeping Americans and America safe.
Quit badmouthing him. Cut it out.

Joe Walsh @WalshFreedom
When I grew up, the FBI were the good guys, and the Soviet Union were the bad guys.
I watch @FoxNews today, and they tell me the FBI are the bad guys, and Russia are the good guys.
Such bullshit.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:13 PM on December 8, 2017 [82 favorites]


...and then three tweets down he defends Roy Moore. And calls the yearbook story bullshit.

I guess cognitive dissonance only hurts your brain if you've got one to begin with.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:16 PM on December 8, 2017 [20 favorites]


> Get ready for a lot of stories like this at the one-year mark.

Honest question; how come? Is it a benefits thing or something like that?
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:17 PM on December 8, 2017


It is a tough, stressful, time consuming job in the best of circumstances....in this administration you can do the math. I'd say most of the high up people in a typical administration could leave to find work that pays better, is less stressful and takes way less of a commitment.

Also, in the case of people recruited from business and industry where they are the top dog in their firm, being in government where you have to defer a lot to someone higher up has to get frustrating and limiting.
posted by mmascolino at 12:22 PM on December 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


Honest question; how come? Is it a benefits thing or something like that?

I think it's more a resume thing, that you lasted a year & left of your own volition for reasons other than "Trump is cray-cray".
posted by scalefree at 12:23 PM on December 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Oh dear. @JakeSherman: NEWS — TRENT FRANKS has resigned effective immediately, after he says his wife was admitted to the hospital in DC.

AP is siding with the Post over CNN, saying the email was sent September 14th and it "included a decryption key for hacked documents that the website WikiLeaks had made public a day earlier."

The date dependency here is downright odd, as is CNN's silence.

Honest question; how come? Is it a benefits thing or something like that?

It's not strictly a tax benefit thing, as has been reported, but it sounds like there's pressure to be able to say "hey, I served my country and went back home to spend time with my family" rather than "I got stuck with this disaster and couldn't even make it a year so I'll slink away now." That also presumably makes it easier to do the consulting and corporate board thing, if you're viewed as someone who was around long enough to have influence rather than just a failure.
posted by zachlipton at 12:25 PM on December 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Yeah, "spent one year at x job" and/or "survived a whole year working for Trump" looks a lot better than "couldn't last a year at a job" on a resume. I think that's the only reason.
posted by Melismata at 12:25 PM on December 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


Apologies for not seeing who said this, but a woman on MSNBC snarked that if congress can pass a one trillion dollar tax bill in two days they can have an ethics hearing that doesn't take years.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:30 PM on December 8, 2017 [44 favorites]


Joe Walsh...

...Is fucking terrible but at least seems to come by his awful beliefs naturally rather than on a purely partisan basis. His beliefs and actions are heinous 99% of the time but he'll speak up for the 1% even if it's against most of the party. But yeah, it hurts when you have to respect Joe fucking Walsh just the tiniest bit for being intellectually honest compared to the rest of the soulless, spineless, craven bastards.
posted by chris24 at 12:35 PM on December 8, 2017 [10 favorites]


Just to add to the the "36 laptops and other devices" mini-derail: Back in 2004, the Treasury Department rudely awoke me early one morning with a warrant because they were investigating a guy I had given a shell account to on one of my little hobby UNIX machines. This wasn't about me personally. A few hours later, in any event, they walked out with every computer — old, new, and otherwise. For whatever reason, they skipped a NeXTstation I had tucked away, which gave me 24 hours with some form of rudimentary internet. (This was pre-"smartphones-are-mainstream," so my Sony Ericsson P990i wasn't considered an internet device in their eyes . . . thankfully.)

That was easily over 36 devices, when you factor in external hard drives, CD-ROM drives(!), etc. Granted, I'm kind of a techie (and was more so back then), but their idea of "related device" is extreeeeeeemely broad.

(Which makes skipping my early smartphone and the NeXT even more weird.)
posted by CommonSense at 12:36 PM on December 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Oh dear. @JakeSherman: NEWS — TRENT FRANKS has resigned effective immediately, after he says his wife was admitted to the hospital in DC.

As opposed to Jan 31, his original date.

Does this seem weird to anyone?
posted by Chrysostom at 12:42 PM on December 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


AP: Minnesota Gov. Mark Dayton’s preferred appointee to fill Sen. Al Franken’s Senate seat, Lt. Gov. Tina Smith, is considering also running for the seat next year, as Dayton is being pressured by top Democrats in Washington to appoint more than a mere caretaker, according to two Democrats familiar with the discussions.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:43 PM on December 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


Wow. BuzzFeed, John Hudson, No Deal: How Secret Talks With Russia to Prevent Election Meddling Collapsed: "With the 2018 midterms on the horizon, Moscow proposed a sweeping non-interference agreement with the United States, US officials tell BuzzFeed News. The Trump administration said no. "
To test the possibility of a mutual agreement, Putin dispatched Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov to Washington for a July 17 meeting with Under Secretary Tom Shannon, the No. 3 official at the State Department. The official US account of the meeting offered only a bland summary of conversations on “areas of mutual concern.” But three US administration officials, including one inside the meeting, said Ryabkov handed over a document containing a bold proposal: A sweeping noninterference agreement between Moscow and Washington that would prohibit both governments from meddling in the other’s domestic politics.

After examining the proposal, which has not previously been reported, US officials told Moscow there would be no deal.

“We said ‘thank you very much but now is not the time for this,’” said a senior State Department official who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive diplomatic discussions.
The deal does sound problematic, especially to the extent it would mean giving up legitimate US democracy promotion efforts, but the nature of the situation we find ourselves in is that we cannot possibly trust the principals involved to be acting in our nation's best interests on this.
posted by zachlipton at 12:44 PM on December 8, 2017 [32 favorites]


He was not a mere coffee boy: George Papadopolous' fiancee, Simona Mangiante, tells CNN that "His contributions to the campaign has been much more relevant than bringing coffee," she said. "I think they wanted to disassociate from the first person who decided to actively cooperate with the government, on the right side. And probably the easiest way out is to dismiss his personality and lower him to a low-level volunteer."

Tweet tweet, chirp chirp - even if Preet Bharara is right that Michael Flynn's charges are not as substantial as we hope, Flynn is not the only big fish in the net.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:48 PM on December 8, 2017 [16 favorites]


As someone who has developed a habit of calling and complaining to my Republican senators' offices, my aim in doing so goes beyond simply adding to a tally of angry constituents. I aim to use impassioned arguments of basic decency to make my senators' staffers feel bad. I am sure a disproportionate number of them intend to go on to political careers promoting the same kind of policies and behaviors championed by their current employers.

I'mma just going to bring this back because yes yes yes yes, this forever.

I made a woman interrupt me and try to hang up on me in disgust the other day simply by asking repeatedly "Where is the evidence that trickle-down economics has worked, given that Republicans have been advocating that it be the main source of economic stimulus since before I was born?"

I made someone lose all capacity to speak by asking sweetly but implacably "Why does Mr. Cruz want to help major telecommunications companies place massive barriers in the face of small businesses relying on the internet? I know someone with an Etsy store, and she's very concerned about the traffic loss she's likely to see if we lose the FCC rules."

I made three people squirm and desperately try to justify the tax bill by asking "Why does Mr. Cornyn support tax increases on healthcare for working families and graduate students on small stipends in order to pay for tax cuts for millionaires?" and then delving happily into my personal finances and why Mr. Cornyn is going to hurt me.

I had one poor bastard actually hang up on me in some office out in Lubbock, Texas, and I had a grand old time calling everyone I could get hold of on Senator Cornyn's lines and asking them if they thought that hanging up on concerned voters and constituents was acceptable.

I'm channeling an angry crabby grandma who grew up before women were allowed to be openly furious, dammit. You can coat your orneriness in perfect politeness and still make these assholes uncomfortable. I also called Mr. Cruz "three raccoons in an unconvincing trenchcoat arguing for access to the henhouse", but I tend to save those calls for voicemails. And I call to all the offices, not just mine, because mine is perpetually jammed. No reason that Bob Q GOP in East Bumfuck, Texas ought to be exempt, and that lets me ask why adding more phone service to Austin hasn't been a priority for the Senator. Does he not want to listen to his constituents talk about how his actions impact their lives?

As always, the best thing you can do is ask "Why?" and fact-check the lies under Republican talking points.
posted by sciatrix at 12:52 PM on December 8, 2017 [119 favorites]


BREAKING: AP Exclusive: Former aide says GOP Rep. Trent Franks offered her $5 million to carry his child.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:54 PM on December 8, 2017 [34 favorites]


BREAKING: AP Exclusive: Former aide says GOP Rep. Trent Franks offered her $5 million to carry his child.

Oy. More stories from the 1%. I'd do almost anything for $5 million.
posted by Melismata at 12:57 PM on December 8, 2017 [18 favorites]


CNN: "CNN's initial reporting of the date on an email sent to members of the Trump campaign about Wikileaks documents, which was confirmed by two sources to CNN, was incorrect. We have updated our story to include the correct date, and present the proper context for the timing of email"

Um, I have a lot more questions. Such as who gave you the wrong date and why?
posted by zachlipton at 1:03 PM on December 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


Full story is up now: Female aides said Franks suggested intercourse to impregnate them [Rachael Bade and Jake Sherman; Politico]
The sources said Franks approached two female staffers about acting as a potential surrogate for him and his wife, who has struggled with fertility issues for years. But the aides were concerned that Franks was asking to have sexual relations with them. It was not clear to the women whether he was asking about impregnating the women through sexual intercourse or in vitro fertilization. Franks opposes abortion rights as well as procedures that discard embryos.

A former staffer also alleged that Franks tried to persuade a female aide that they were in love by having her read an article that described how a person knows they’re in love with someone, the sources said. One woman believed she was the subject of retribution after rebuffing Franks.
And how fucking dare he bring his wife's hospitalization/health status into this as a way to cover up the real reason for his resignation. What a piece of shit.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:03 PM on December 8, 2017 [77 favorites]


What's next? "Now that you're working for me, your new name is OfTrent!"? Ew. Gross. And this is why it's important to have a "no tolerance for sexual harassment and abuse" policy for Democratic politicians. Not only will we go high while they go low, we get the talented young people - the future of our party - wanting to work for us. Sexually harassing and abusing women, and making them feel unwelcome because of this, is a great big brain drain.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:06 PM on December 8, 2017 [37 favorites]


Yeah, don't ever try to tell me The Handmaid's Tale was hysterical nonsense.
posted by palomar at 1:06 PM on December 8, 2017 [93 favorites]


Even in the best of times it's tough working in the White House, and it's normal to have some turnover every year. There are always some people who weren't a good fit for their job, people who can't quite hack it, whatever. Obama went through quite a few Press Secretaries and Chiefs of Staff. A year is a good benchmark to say, you gave it your best, we gave it a chance to work, etc. Trump's turnover may or may not be worse than usual, but even if he were not a walking malignant tumor, I would expect a lot of turnover as this inexperienced guy figured shit out. I think turnover is not that big a deal overall.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 1:06 PM on December 8, 2017


$5 million is way, way, way higher than the normal going rate for surrogacy, which Franks would presumably know from his twins. Nothing about this is remotely ok:
A former staffer also alleged that Franks tried to persuade a female aide that they were in love by having her read an article that described how a person knows they’re in love with someone, the sources said.
posted by zachlipton at 1:08 PM on December 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


Former aide says GOP Rep. Trent Franks offered her $5 million to carry his child.

Of course he had to resign. No Republican can be seen to promote the gestate tax.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:10 PM on December 8, 2017 [47 favorites]


Not to armchair-data too much, but one of those links about MN becoming a purpler state relies on data from this page, which.... if you look at the years where a Dem candidate won by a much lower margin, eg 2016 and 2000, you also see a bigger spike in independent or other votes. Which I think suggests not that Minnesota is becoming more Republican, but that when the party runs a relatively 'unpopular' Dem candidate, it's actually more liberal voters peeling off to other candidates. Now of course that can still result in a GOP win if enough voters peel off, but it doesn't necessarily follow that that's because more Minnesotans liked the GOP.
posted by nakedmolerats at 1:14 PM on December 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


The sources said Franks approached two female staffers about acting as a potential surrogate for him and his wife, who has struggled with fertility issues for years.

I hope this doesn't sound like blaming his wife, that's not my intent, but.... OMFG I can't imagine his wife knew about this without saying "don't ask your staffers, that's gross and weird", which means she probably didn't know he asked, which is even more gross and weird.
posted by nakedmolerats at 1:17 PM on December 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Why must Republicans always ruin the best jokes about them by making it too real?
posted by Glibpaxman at 1:18 PM on December 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


Full story is up now: Female aides said Franks suggested intercourse to impregnate them [Rachael Bade and Jake Sherman; Politico]

If it matters Politico has already changed the headline to more accurately reflect the facts they are reporting: "Female aides fretted Franks wanted to have sex to impregnate them "

basically, it seems it wasn't clear to the aides in question, but for fuck's sake, if a "normal" surrogacy costs ~50k and he was offering them 100x more id sure be wondering if he didn't think actual sexual fertilization was what he was suggesting [thinks more about this than id ever like to, cringes]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:21 PM on December 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


Uh, I'm guessing the 'will you be my surrogate' was in fact just a fig leaf for 'will you let me fuck you', given all the frankly bizarre details surrounding all this
posted by aiglet at 1:21 PM on December 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


Re the CNN mistake about the dates: this is a bad development, and will be weaponized by Fox and others to claim the MSM made up fake stories, attacking Trump, it's all lies, etc.
posted by StrawberryPie at 10:30 AM on December 8 [11 favorites +] [!]

Yeah, and fuck CNN for not being more careful.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:25 PM on December 8, 2017


Franks seat special probably March primary, April general.

Conyers vacancy (11 months) appears to be the longest in at least 20 years.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:25 PM on December 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


Why must Republicans always ruin the best jokes about them by making it too real?

What war on women? ---> Something straight out of Handmaid's Tale.

Calling us Nazis is such hyperbole. --->

@SteveKingIA
Diversity is not our strength. Hungarian Prime Minister Victor Orban, “Mixing cultures will not lead to a higher quality of life but a lower one.” (Not linking to the VOE article he linked.)
posted by chris24 at 1:26 PM on December 8, 2017 [27 favorites]


>Uh, I'm guessing the 'will you be my surrogate' was in fact just a fig leaf for 'will you let me fuck you', given all the frankly bizarre details surrounding all this

'will you let me fuck you and carry any resulting pregnancy to term and then give me the child', for the sake of completeness.
posted by mosk at 1:26 PM on December 8, 2017 [29 favorites]


Is "SurroGate" taken yet?
posted by uosuaq at 1:27 PM on December 8, 2017 [75 favorites]


OMFG I can't imagine his wife knew about this without saying "don't ask your staffers, that's gross and weird"

That depends on how much direct attention she pays to his work. "Oh honey; I've found someone who might be a surrogate for us - one of the women at the office is very nice, open-minded, would love to help out a family that's having troubles"... Don't phrase it as "my direct subordinate;" don't talk about whether she's attractive, and so on.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:29 PM on December 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Glibpaxman: Why must Republicans always ruin the best jokes about them by making it too real?

It's "wearing diapers to own the libs" all over again, but 5000% grosser.

Supposing his wife was in the dark about the sex part, did Franks... expect to fool her that it was just a literal sperm donation? So that the proposed 5 million would (in part) be considered hush money?
posted by InTheYear2017 at 1:32 PM on December 8, 2017


Since Trent's net worth is at least 33 million, in his mind he was exchanging less than 15% of his current wealth to buy both a concubine and an heir to House Franks. Must have seemed like a pretty OK deal. Where'd that money come from, anyway? Why, from his oil companies that profited from his legislative pillaging, of course.

If these assholes were to have waited out a few more years of the unraveling of the American political and social fabric, they could have gotten away with this kind of Westerosi aristocrat behavior. As it is, they're acting like they've already completely destroyed the free press and as if they have a competent handle on the levers of state violence. We're lucky that so many of them are too stupid and reckless to understand this.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:33 PM on December 8, 2017 [28 favorites]


Twitter's hottest takes on the frank news (as rate by me and my limited TL):

$5 Million Dollar Baby - @petridishes

HANDMAID'S FAIL - @aedwardslevy

surrogate-gate/ surro-gate - @BrettLoGiurato
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:37 PM on December 8, 2017 [21 favorites]


Ok, there is officially Too Much News. NYT, Adam Goldman and Matt Apuzzo, F.B.I. Warned Hope Hicks About Emails From Russian Operatives
F.B.I. officials warned one of President Trump’s top advisers, Hope Hicks, earlier this year about repeated attempts by Russian operatives to make contact with her during the presidential transition, according to people familiar with the events.

The Russian outreach efforts show that, even after American intelligence agencies publicly accused Moscow of trying to influence the outcome of last year’s presidential election, Russian operatives were undaunted in their efforts to establish contacts with Mr. Trump’s advisers.

There is no evidence that Ms. Hicks did anything improper. According to former officials, American intelligence and law enforcement agencies became alarmed by introductory emails that Ms. Hicks received from Russian government addresses in the weeks after Mr. Trump’s election.

After he took office, senior F.B.I. counterintelligence agents met with Ms. Hicks in the White House Situation Room at least twice, gave her the names of the Russians who had contacted her, and said that they were not who they claimed to be. The F.B.I. was concerned that the emails to Ms. Hicks may have been part of a Russian intelligence operation, and they urged Ms. Hicks to be cautious.
If you're wondering why this was leaked, the article includes a paragraph pointing out that Russians wouldn't be cold emailing Hicks if they had closer ties to the campaign during the election. That said, is there anybody in the administration who didn't have contact with Russian agents? Hicks spent two days meeting with Mueller's team.
posted by zachlipton at 1:41 PM on December 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


@SiriusXMNews
Steve Bannon Returns to Sirius XM as Breitbart News Expands Radio Reach - SFGate http://dlvr.it/Q4glxG #SiriusXM


@Sethrogen
I was supposed to do a press tour on @SIRIUSXM on tuesday but I'm no longer doing it because I can't bring myself to appear on the same service that has decided to support Steve Bannon. Apologies to the shows I had to cancel. And fuck Steve Bannon.


@justkelly_ok
To cancel a SiriusXM subscription, call 1-866-635-5020. It can't be done online. But you get to tell them why.
posted by chris24 at 1:54 PM on December 8, 2017 [68 favorites]


If you're wondering why this was leaked, the article includes a paragraph pointing out that Russians wouldn't be cold emailing Hicks if they had closer ties to the campaign during the election.

Quite the contrary, If I've engaged in getting compromising information on someone. I'm def going to reach out to all individuals involved and attempt to get more compromising information on other members
posted by Twain Device at 1:54 PM on December 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Steve King gonna SteveKing, but dude... it says e pluribus unum right on our fucking money!!
posted by nakedmolerats at 1:56 PM on December 8, 2017 [30 favorites]


Diversity is not our strength. Hungarian Prime Minister Victor Orban, “Mixing cultures will not lead to a higher quality of life but a lower one.” (Not linking to the VOE article he linked.)

It's literally our national motto & printed on every dollar bill & most if not all of our coins.
posted by scalefree at 1:56 PM on December 8, 2017 [24 favorites]


If you're wondering why this was leaked, the article includes a paragraph pointing out that Russians wouldn't be cold emailing Hicks if they had closer ties to the campaign during the election.

After all the very true tales of chaos and incompetence throughout the campaign and transition, does anyone think these clowns were timely in responding to the Russians? Does anyone think they had one or two regular points of contact for the sake of compartmentalization and deniability? Does anyone believe there weren't times their Russian handlers couldn't get Don Jr. on the phone and were like, "Fuck it, find someone else on the team!"?

Hell, this only made the whole thing more credible.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:59 PM on December 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


the article includes a paragraph pointing out that Russians wouldn't be cold emailing Hicks if they had closer ties to the campaign during the election.

Besides the campaign manager, candidate's son, candidate's son-in-law, future National Security Advisor, and two out of his five foreign policy advisors?
posted by chris24 at 2:02 PM on December 8, 2017 [20 favorites]


“Mixing cultures will not lead to a higher quality of life but a lower one.”

I'm all for not mixing decent humans and garbage people.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:02 PM on December 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Handmaid's Tale had its Gilead operatives be smart enough to infiltrate the government and the military in secret and play umpty-dimensional chess in order to stage a coup and keep it going. (It helped that you apparently could bring concealed weapons into actual Congressional meetings, large parts of the US were polluted and uninhabited wastelands, and the white, Christian population was a larger and younger percentage of the US population at the time the book was written.)

What is saving us from a Handmaid's Tale scenario now is that the people who want this to happen are not smart, not capable of eleventh-dimensional chess, and seemingly unable to keep their mouths shut. I honestly think what is propping them up now, besides their rabid base, is the bottomless pools of Koch and Mercer money. I wish Margaret Atwood had been able to include that...
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:09 PM on December 8, 2017 [37 favorites]


scalefree: "
It's literally our national motto & printed on every dollar bill & most if not all of our coins."

Pedantry: The official US national motto is, "In God We Trust," per United States Public Law 84-851 (thanks, Ike).

All US coinage contains the texts: In God We Trust, E Pluribus Unum, and Liberty.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:18 PM on December 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


I just called SiriusXM to cancel. They tried to give me a month free 'until we figure out what to do with the programming'.

Heh. "You figure things out over there, and if I like the decisions you make about programming, I may re-subscribe later. But for now, I'm not paying for your content; I don't like your choices."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:21 PM on December 8, 2017 [20 favorites]


I'm calling for a total and complete shutdown of Sirius XM until our media executives can figure out what the hell is going on.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:27 PM on December 8, 2017 [50 favorites]


That should be interesting. Sirius is super, super obsessive, to the point of being blatantly scammy, about retaining their subscribers. Maybe they'll drop him when they see how the numbers don't add up.
posted by Melismata at 2:27 PM on December 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Yeah the NYT article was like weird they'd be cold-emailing her if they had deep connections to the campaign. However, there are several explanations for that, one being that they were just trying to get as many involved as possible.

But yo my brothers and sisters can David Brooks be forgiven a little bit after today's opinion piece?
posted by angrycat at 2:28 PM on December 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Pedantry: The official US national motto is, "In God We Trust," per United States Public Law 84-851 (thanks, Ike).

It seems we have more than one motto. Never codified but E Pluribus Unum was considered our motto from 1776 until Public Law 84-851 was passed in 1956. Yours in pedantry, etc. etc.
posted by scalefree at 2:29 PM on December 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


Rotting? No, Brooks is still in Convenient Reaction jail.
posted by rhizome at 2:30 PM on December 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


The SiriusXM thing is why the BuzzFeed Milo story is so important. Because that story removed even the figleaf of plausible deniability that Breitbart wasn't knowingly working to mainstream white supremacist thought. It's not that we didn't know before, but fully connecting those dots makes the case that airing Breitbart Radio is airing white supremacy.
posted by zachlipton at 2:31 PM on December 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


Yeah, don't ever try to tell me The Handmaid's Tale was hysterical nonsense.

Absolutely. In fact, Margaret Atwood specifically said in an interview, “However, when I wrote it I was making sure I wasn’t putting anything into it that human beings had not already done somewhere at some time.”

Not only is The Handmaid's tale not nonsense at all, everything in it has happened.
posted by mrgoat at 2:31 PM on December 8, 2017 [61 favorites]


Eh, it's the motto on the Great Seal, but it's not the official motto. I think I win the pedantry fight.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:32 PM on December 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


But yo my brothers and sisters can David Brooks be forgiven a little bit after today's opinion piece?


No.
I was thinking about the rash of punditry on this tax bill and the ACA repeal whose base premise was "The Republicans are acting like a bad caricature drawn by liberals" and I was incensed.
Those weren't caricatures - they were accurate models. And it would appear to flow from this that if liberals were accurate about the true aims of conservatives, they may be right about other things too.
But talking heads like David Brooks can't admit that liberals, Democrats and leftists were right all along.
Brooks wants to recast Trump as a deviation from conservatism. He's not. He is the culmination of a deliberate program of appeasement, adoption and cooption, by Republicans, of some of the worst elements of American society. This is the grand tradition of Buckley et al.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:34 PM on December 8, 2017 [37 favorites]


can David Brooks be forgiven a little bit after today's opinion piece?
The Republican Party is doing harm to every cause it purports to serve. If Republicans accept Roy Moore as a United States senator, they may, for a couple years, have one more vote for a justice or a tax cut, but they will have made their party loathsome for an entire generation.
I mostly use Twitter to RT and amplify, but I actually replied to this with something like THEY DON'T CARE. They will have gotten everything for themselves and their donors, and Sessions and everyone else will continue to destroy the country. If this tax bill passes I wouldn't be surprised if half of them just walk away so they can roll around in their piles of money all day.

And if Trump signs this bill I wouldn't be surprised if he just never showed up for work again. (That's right Trumo, it's a JOB.)
posted by Room 641-A at 2:36 PM on December 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


But yo my brothers and sisters can David Brooks be forgiven a little bit after today's opinion piece?

No.

I will say that it's a very strange sensation to watch the Frums and Brookses of the world squirm and wriggle and writhe as the horror they created, as the monster they did nothing to prevent and everything to lay the ground for, devours them whole. It would be a pleasant sensation if I knew we weren't all being eaten up by that monster equally.
posted by dis_integration at 2:43 PM on December 8, 2017 [42 favorites]


What is saving us from a Handmaid's Tale scenario now is that the people who want this to happen are not smart, not capable of eleventh-dimensional chess, and seemingly unable to keep their mouths shut.

This was essentially my Thanksgiving, err, giving of thanks.

The host at my friend's (defacto family) house that I've been going to for 5+ years now normally spends some time looking for something to share - a quote, a passage in a book or something nice, thankful, touching or profound.

This year she couldn't manage it and nearly broke down in tears trying to describe how she felt. It was pretty rough, because while she's very active and very outspoken and aware, she's also almost always incredibly positive and uplifting.

It seemed helped to remind her that they aren't exactly scholars, nor competent - nor opaque. That, frankly, we're dealing with blithering idiots.

That doesn't make them any less dangerous, obviously, but at the least it makes them less efficient.
posted by loquacious at 2:50 PM on December 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


WP:
A former clerk for Judge Alex Kozinski said the powerful and well-known jurist, who for many years served as chief judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, called her into his office several times and pulled up pornography on his computer, asking if she thought it was photoshopped or if it aroused her sexually.
I have a feeling the next few months are going to be long ones.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:52 PM on December 8, 2017 [48 favorites]


NYT, Trip Gabriel and Julie Bosman, Lobbyists Ask for Votes. Some Lawmakers Want Much More.:
Vanessa Alarid was a lobbyist in New Mexico when she asked a lawmaker over drinks one night if she could count on his support for a bill that appeared to be coming down to a single vote.

“You can have my vote if you have sex with me,” Ms. Alarid recalled the lawmaker saying, although he used cruder language for sexual intercourse. He told Ms. Alarid she had the same first name as his wife, so he would not get confused if he called out in bed. Then he kissed Ms. Alarid on the lips, she said.

Shocked, Ms. Alarid, who was 32 at the time, pushed him away. Only after he was gone did she let the tears flow.

When her bill came up on the floor of the New Mexico House of Representatives the next day, March 20, 2009, it failed by a single vote, including a ‘No’ by the lawmaker, Representative Thomas A. Garcia.

As Ms. Alarid watched from the House gallery, she said Mr. Garcia blew her a kiss and shrugged his shoulders with arms spread.
posted by zachlipton at 2:57 PM on December 8, 2017 [61 favorites]


Lloyd Doggett‏
@RepLloydDoggett
Today, I w/ other House Dem Members of the Conference Committee #GOPTaxBill requested @USTreasury Secretary @StevenMnuchin1 provide a copy of its analysis of the econ impact of this bill & to appear before the Conf. Cmte for questioning. Read our letter: https://doggett.house.gov/sites/doggett.house.gov/files/TaxAnalysisLetter.pdf …

Background/reminder:

Judging by This New York Times Story, Steve Mnuchin Is a Liar (Jordan Weissman, Slate)
“Not only will this tax plan pay for itself, but it will pay down debt,” Mnuchin said in September. Despite this being comically implausible, Mnuchin promised that a crack team of analysts at his department was already looking at the economic effects of various proposals. The bill would be scored by the Treasury department, he said. What’s more, they would show their work. “We have over 100 people working on this, and it will be a completely transparent process,” he told CNBC’s John Harwood at one point.

And yet, as the tax talks advanced, no economic analysis emerged from Treasury. Asked in November if the department was ever going to release its models to back up its claims, Mnuchin bizarrely said it already had, while once again promising transparency.

Well, the New York Times did some digging, and it turns out there was never any modeling to begin with.
On another note, every time I see former Watergate prosecutor Jill Wine-Banks, her Cheshire Cat smile gets wider and wider. She is my Trump Trouble bellweather.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:07 PM on December 8, 2017 [37 favorites]


God love you, Lloyd. I gotta call and thank him for standing up for us again--he's my rep and I really love that moving across town let me say that for real now. I smile every time I get to cast a vote for him.
posted by sciatrix at 3:10 PM on December 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


More pedantry! It's bellwether. A wether is a castrated male sheep. The wether would wear a bell, and the flock would follow it. By extension, it came to mean any leader or leading indicator.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:10 PM on December 8, 2017 [60 favorites]


Republicans like David Brooks are just sad because the party’s racism is no longer tastefully muted.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:12 PM on December 8, 2017 [24 favorites]


A former clerk for Judge Alex Kozinski said the powerful and well-known jurist, who for many years served as chief judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, called her into his office several times and pulled up pornography on his computer, asking if she thought it was photoshopped or if it aroused her sexually.

The article notes one of his accusers is a romance novelist under the pen name Courtney Milan. It fails to note that Courtney Milan is really fucking sharp. There's "You shouldn't be harassing women at all, what the hell is wrong with you?" and then there's "Oh wow you messed with the wrong woman."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:23 PM on December 8, 2017 [16 favorites]


The GOP Bill just keeps giving up its dirty secrets:

NBC GOP's Tax Bill Could Eliminate Wildfire Tax Deduction as California Blazes Rage
The House bill, approved on Nov. 16, removes the deduction for personal losses from wildfires, earthquakes, hurricanes and other natural disasters not covered by insurance or other assistance. Victims of major disasters could still get tax breaks provided Congress passes special legislation particular to the disaster.
God forbid you should get a break on your taxes if your house burns up or your business falls down in an earthquake.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:26 PM on December 8, 2017 [45 favorites]


So the Supreme Court has taken up another gerrymandering case, and the tea leaves are murky on why and what this portends. Some analysis here from an eminent election law scholar.
posted by prefpara at 3:30 PM on December 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


I think David Roberts is worth reading on Brooks, so much so that he used 280 characters/tweet finally (ellipses in original):
It's sad to watch people who defined their whole political identity as being the Wise Man of the Center, Transcending the Irrational Partisanship of Both Sides (see: David Brooks' latest & everyone RTing it)...slowly realizing that there's no other side any more, that the US right has become a racist, authoritarian splinter party, that there's no "meeting in the middle" between a normal party & a revanchist, illiberal one.

Why is it so tragic for them? Because once they recognize the deep asymmetry, the next realization is that they are just ... on the left. All the reasonable disputes are *within* the US left. They're just members of that team, arguing w/ others within it. For people who preen about the irrationality of choosing sides, the realization that they're ON a side -- that they've been on it for a while, that they don't transcend it at all -- is quite deflating, a bit of a demotion.

This has been true for a while, of course. There was a whole *genre* of articles by "moderates" & "centrists" calling on Obama to be more moderate & centrist by ... doing things he was already doing & supporting policies he already supported. The fact is, these days, all the reasonable debates -- about size of gov't, justice & representation, global environmental challenges, free speech -- are taking place *within* the US left. The right is off in la la land, pining for slavery & pre-20th-century government. In this circumstances, a "centrist" is just ... someone on the center-left. Nothing special, no deep vision that sees Beyond, just yer average center-leftist wrestling w/ the same tradeoffs the other center-lefties are dealing with.

"Both sides should ignore their shouting extremes & meet in the middle" has long been a way to sound smart & sophisticated about US politics without actually knowing or understanding a damn thing about it. Losing that is going to be a great blow to some very self-important white men, so expect to read lots of long, tedious Takes about it, sprinkled with "what's a reasonable man like me to do?"-type self-regard.
If every debate is going to come down to "the party of Trump and Roy Moore vs. everyone else," you don't get to be special by casting yourself as noble for choosing Team Everyone Else. It's December; we're past the stage where we give out cookies for coming to the conclusion that the Republican Party has left you behind, for being willfully ignorant of the fact that your party is the same party it was two years ago. David Brooks' entire reason for being has shattered. To his credit, he knows it, but he just keeps writing the same column restating that fact rather than offering any solutions.
posted by zachlipton at 3:31 PM on December 8, 2017 [94 favorites]


WaPo, Trump calls Romney ‘a great man,’ but works to undermine him and block Senate run
Before Ronna Romney McDaniel took over as Republican National Committee chairwoman earlier this year, President Trump had a request: Would she be willing to stop using her middle name publicly?

Trump followed up by saying in a lighthearted way that McDaniel, the niece of Mitt Romney, could do what she wanted, according to two people familiar with the comments. But the change was soon plain for all to see. Though she had used her maiden name for years in Michigan, where her grandfather had been governor, McDaniel dropped “Romney” from most official party communications and has rarely used it since.
posted by zachlipton at 3:41 PM on December 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


So he wanted Ronna Romney McDaniel to drop her middle name but not Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Hmmmm....
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:49 PM on December 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


Man, it's grand when men I adore do the right thing. Seth Rogen has long been my archetypal perfect white guy (smart, funny, schlubby, Jewish, pothead...) and I didn't think I could be a bigger fan but here I am today, applauding his repudiation of satellite radio. Bless.
posted by elsietheeel at 4:06 PM on December 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


@NatashaBertrand (Business Insider correspondent): So Manafort made some, uh, changes to that op-ed he said he definitely didn’t ghost-write.

Spoiler: Track Changes was enabled in MS Word.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 4:18 PM on December 8, 2017 [73 favorites]


Can we start using "the bad Joe Walsh" when referring to right-wing assholes named Joe Walsh? It's always jarring to go "What?? That can't- oh. Right."
posted by petebest at 4:26 PM on December 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


That's hilarious.

I get that corporate computers do that, but there are reasons my home computer's name and MS Office account are set to "Owner." Personal docs I edit for other people don't have my name in weird places that could be used against me years from now.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:27 PM on December 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


A former clerk for Judge Alex Kozinski said the powerful and well-known jurist, who for many years served as chief judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, called her into his office several times and pulled up pornography on his computer, asking if she thought it was photoshopped or if it aroused her sexually.

Ha, yeah, wow. I practice in the district courts of the 9th circuit, though not before the 9th circuit court proper so far, and let me tell you I believe every bit of whatever people are going to say about Alex Kozinski. He has long had the reputation around here of... not a broken stair exactly, but at least a dirty old man. Like no reports of assault, but he's always forwarding raunchy jokes and stuff, with a vibe of "hey man I'm just LIBERATED, why are you so UPTIGHT?"

Anyway, yeah. I totally believe he showed porn to his clerks. Since he's an Article III judge, though, I think our only recourse against him is impeachment. And if he leaves for whatever reason, voluntary or otherwise, it's another judicial appointment for the Trump administration.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 4:41 PM on December 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


David Brooks: If Republicans accept Roy Moore as a United States senator, they may, for a couple years, have one more vote for a justice or a tax cut, but they will have made their party loathsome for an entire generation.

Romney said something similar, and in both cases I just want to scream "YOU ELECTED TRUMP! YOUR PARTY IS ALREADY LOATHSOME! MOORE IS JUST ICING ON THE TERRIBLE CAKE!"


Can we start using "the bad Joe Walsh" when referring to right-wing assholes named Joe Walsh?

Oh, man! I feel bad now, I've been judging Joe Walsh the singer this whole time. I just checked out his Twitter and apparently he's running a foundation that helps veterans, has a picture with President Obama from last year, and campaigned for Tammy Duckworth when she ran against The Bad Joe Walsh.

Sorry Joe!
posted by mmoncur at 5:01 PM on December 8, 2017 [30 favorites]


Roy Moore provides a different kind of loathsome from Trump.

It's hilarious reading the Post article rip apart CNN's email story, like total armature hour at CNN, like the email comes from some random dude and apparently “The email was never read or responded to — and the House Intelligence Committee knows this”.

There is some information in Stelter's comment "A CNN spokeswoman says there will not be disciplinary action in this case because, unlike with Brian Ross/ABC, Manu Raju followed the editorial standards process. Multiple sources provided him with incorrect info."

American MSM is famous for accepting information from governmental sources uncritically, after perhaps asking a second effectively identical sources to corroborate it, while ignoring important verifiable information for "having only one source." It sounds like Manu Raju received the tip from some congressional staffer, did whatever to check his mindless little box for there being two sources, and published it. It's likely Manu Raju trusted his source implicitly because they were a Democrat, but he and the source were sloppy and failed to actually check the date. After all this time it's still so alien to these guys that wikileaks actually publishes the source material that they don't even consider that the email's sender simply got it off twitter or wherever.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:07 PM on December 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


Yeah, just want to underscore that evil Joe Walsh is not the same guy that penned Funk #49 and sold Jimmy Page his '59 Les Paul.
posted by mosk at 5:08 PM on December 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Or that (Republican) sources intentionally lied to Raju in order to make CNN look bad.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:09 PM on December 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


THR, Former Fox News Anchor Says Trump Once Tried to Kiss Her
Huddy, now host of a radio program on WABC Radio, revealed during an appearance on Mornin'!!! w/ Bill Schulz that Trump leaned in to kiss her after taking her out to lunch. Huddy claimed the incident took place in 2005-06, around the time Trump married Melania Trump.

"He said goodbye to me in an elevator while his security guy was there. Rather than kiss me on the cheek he leaned in to kiss me on the lips," she recalled. "I wasn't offended, I was kind of like, 'Oh my God.'"

Huddy said she didn't feel "threatened," but called it a "weird moment. He never tried anything after that, and I was never alone with him."

Years later, Trump visited Huddy on her Fox News morning show and made light of his advances, telling the studio audience, "I tried hitting on her, but she blew me off."

"At the time I was not offended by it. I thought he was a single man and leaned in for a kiss," Huddy said. "Now I have matured I think I would say, ‘Whoa, no,' but at the time I was younger and I was a little shocked. I thought maybe he didn't mean to do it, but I was kind of making excuses."
posted by zachlipton at 5:11 PM on December 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


Roll Call, Exclusive: Taxpayers paid $220K to Settle Case Involving Rep. Alcee Hastings. I, for one, am shocked to learn that the guy impeached from his judgeship by the House for bribery and perjury on a 413-3 vote might have gone on to engage in other acts of wrongdoing as a Congressman.
posted by zachlipton at 5:25 PM on December 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Just before Trump takes the stage:

James Comey
@Comey
“Applause is the spur of noble minds, the end and aim of weak ones.” - Edmund Burke (1730-1797)

Walter Shaub
@waltshaub
A private *American* company, @yashar. The branch of government responsible for conducting oversight of the White House and federal agencies (including holding them accountable for ethics violations) is actively misusing governmental authority to attack an American company.
Yashar Ali 🐘
@yashar
The official Twitter account of a Congressional committee is being used to attack a private company (link: https://twitter.com/natresources/status/939236821971734530) twitter.com/natresources/s…
Kyle Griffin
@kylegriffin1
Trump's Transportation Department has abandoned two proposals from the Obama administration that aimed to provide air travelers with more information about fees on bags and other services before they buy tickets. https://t.co/J19GRzwklt
posted by Room 641-A at 5:26 PM on December 8, 2017 [22 favorites]


Hunh. Huddy settled a sexual harassment lawsuit against Fox and Bill O’Reilly in January 2017, according to Wikipedia.
posted by notyou at 5:28 PM on December 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


The House Natural Resources committee is using its Twitter account to push back against Patagonia’s advertising slamming the shrinking of those national monuments in Utah (for those adverse to Twitter).

And browsing that account... It’s Trumpist as fuck. Jeebus.
posted by notyou at 5:34 PM on December 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


My response to David Brooks on Twitter:
No, @nytdavidbrooks, the GOP has been rotten for 50 years; it just used to be better at perfuming the stench. Or you were holding your nose.
posted by Mental Wimp at 5:43 PM on December 8, 2017 [24 favorites]


Can't make this stuff up. A Minnesota news crew (FOX 9) was in DC to cover Franken, but they ran into Trent Franks in the hallway outside their hotel room, overhearing his cell phone call four hour before he resigned, citing his wife's hospitalization: Fox 9 confronts Rep. Franks before his immediate resignation:
But listening in on his call, Fox 9 heard him talking to someone about getting $2 million to start a political action committee on the filibuster issue.

Fox 9 then asked Franks about the exchange on camera.

Tom Lyden: You are still in office and I heard you on the phone talking about setting up a $2 million PAC to go after the issue of the filibuster, is that proper for you to be doing while your still in office?

Congressman Franks: Well, that’s something I’m not going to discuss.
He does not seem to be wasting any time going from resigning in disgrace to attacking McConnell.
posted by zachlipton at 5:57 PM on December 8, 2017 [59 favorites]


And wow. Walter Shaub is dismembering Steve King, who tweeted “Diversity is not our strength,” earlier today, with examples of immigrants who arrived and made us stronger. A daybrightener if you need one.
posted by notyou at 6:00 PM on December 8, 2017 [18 favorites]


We seemingly know Raju obtained the email from someone attached to the House Intelligence Committee, Chrysostom, so it's likely Raju knew his source's party affiliation. I think the more he trusted the source the easier to imagine him using the wrong date, which roughly corresponds with the source being a Democrat.

It sounds like simple incompetence on the source's part and Raju/CNN's mistake was not trying hard enough to obtain the actual email, i.e. they need to take a more wikileaks-like approach to journalism by publishing the source material.
posted by jeffburdges at 6:14 PM on December 8, 2017


Anyone here notice that Daphne Caruana Galizia's work helped link Ivanka Trump to Russian money launderers? Malta arrested like 10 people in their investigation into the assassination that killed Galizia, but that number was growing recently.
posted by jeffburdges at 6:20 PM on December 8, 2017 [10 favorites]


Patagonia has been hosting some pretty good content on Bear's Ears since the after the inauguration when Trump & Zinke first made noises about undoing the National Monument designation. But, warning, it's very web 3.0 with lots of video and VR content that makes many browsers barf.

That the House Committee on Natural Resources felt like they had to respond shows how effective Patagonia has been at calling it what it is. Instagram is well-adopted within the outdoorsy/dirtbag types I know and it's been a constant stream of The President Stole Your Land, #monumentalmistake, #savegrandstaircase and #standwithbearsears. Instagram was my little escape bubble where I could look at pretty pictures from my hiker friends and pretend that the Trump administration wasn't happening, not anymore.
posted by peeedro at 6:29 PM on December 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


And her family sees much suspicious behavior by politicians and police around the investigation.
posted by jeffburdges at 6:29 PM on December 8, 2017


"The Trump administration is secretly detaining a U.S. citizen who has asked for a lawyer — but it won’t give him one. We’ll be in court Monday to defend his rights."
posted by jeffburdges at 6:46 PM on December 8, 2017 [18 favorites]


Jeff, that story had completely missed my radar. Thanks.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:51 PM on December 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


The 2018 Congressional Retirement Tracker
A running list of all the lawmakers calling it quits, whether because of scandal or because they’re not planning to run again next year
posted by kirkaracha at 6:57 PM on December 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Yeah, just want to underscore that evil Joe Walsh is not the same guy that penned Funk #49 and sold Jimmy Page his '59 Les Paul.

THANK YOU FOR THIS. I avoid right-wing media like the plague so I've been glumly assuming all this time that evil Joe Walsh was just rockin' Joe Walsh gone rancid in his old age.
posted by xigxag at 7:04 PM on December 8, 2017 [17 favorites]


Jeff, that story had completely missed my radar. Thanks.
Yeah, I mentioned it a few threads ago, mostly to remind everyone that when the ACLU isn't defending Nazis in Charlottesville they're still doing good, important work on criminal justice and civil rights. This situation is a bit different from Obama's extrajudicial actions, which took place in a non-extradition country where the US didn't have the "enemy combatant" in their custody.* So I don't care if they're an American jihadist or whatever, they shouldn't be held at a black site under US control with no legal representation at all.

* We probably don't need to argue about whether Obama was right or wrong. I just wanted to put in some context as to the recent history of military actions against US citizens and how this is different and much more within the ACLU's reach.
posted by xyzzy at 7:27 PM on December 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Lest we lose track of what the Trump administration is doing while the Republicans refuse to see treason or , here are five ways Trump changed policy this week:

Highlights? Restaurant managers can hold a waitress's tips hostage until she blows him, methane gas can leak until it blows up a county, airlines can fuck you without telling you how much you get to pay for the privilege, and we told the UN Global Compact on Migration to go fuck themselves with their dead migrants. It's been a bumper week in trumperland. Oh, and we're giving away pristine and sacred land to oil developers.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:28 PM on December 8, 2017 [39 favorites]


NYT Opinion: Trumpocalypse: The End Game by Timothy Egan:
You can see where this is headed, the once bright and shiny democracy going down the drain before the holidays are out. The Russians, the special counsel Robert S. Mueller III and his agents, desperate men flipped and singing to save their souls — all may soon be gone, by President Trump’s design.

If there’s any outrage left in the tank, use it now, because Trump has signaled exactly what he’s going to do.
It's mostly just "here's how POTUS is trying to discredit the investigation by claiming the FBI is corrupt" so he can start whatever firings are necessary to make the investigation go away; it points out that Republicans disagree about Russian interference in the election: 65% of them think it didn't happen. It says he'll keep his base.

(What, the 31% who don't think he's screwing up? Of course he'll keep them. Or at least, 27% of them.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 7:30 PM on December 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Kyle Griffin‏
@kylegriffin1
Democrats make it official. Cardin and Booker are putting a hold on K.T. McFarland’s nomination to be Ambassador to Singapore after the new reporting on her conversation from Mar-a-Lago with Flynn about Kislyak. (pic of full letter at tweet)

Man, I hope Kyle Griffin get some rest this weekend. He's been tweeting out solid news stories since early this morning, with barely a rest.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:47 PM on December 8, 2017 [34 favorites]


NT Alexandra Petri, WaPo: After Trent Franks, men worry if asking subordinates to bear their child is still okay
“The potential problem is you can’t even feel safe saying, ‘Good morning’ anymore.” — Man named Steve quoted by the Associated Press

Recent news that lawmaker Trent Franks has resigned after offering a female employee $5 million to carry his child has left many male employers shaken.

Greg Prong once felt he knew what was off-limits, and what wasn’t. Now he says he’s not so confident.

“It’s gotten to where you can’t even feel safe saying, ‘Good morning, will you bear my child?'” he muses. “I’m worried men can’t say to a subordinate, ‘You look pretty fertile,’ and, ‘If you aren’t using your womb right now, can I borrow it for a bit?’ And I think: Are we losing something?”
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:25 PM on December 8, 2017 [56 favorites]


But of course, it's Trump & Co. who has a real uranium scandal.

WaPo: Uranium firm urged Trump officials to shrink Bears Ears National Monument
A uranium company launched a concerted lobbying campaign to scale back Bears Ears National Monument, saying such action would give it easier access to the area’s uranium deposits and help it operate a nearby processing mill, according to documents obtained by The Washington Post.

Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke and top Utah Republicans have said repeatedly that questions of mining or drilling played no role in President Trump’s announcement Monday that he was cutting the site by more than 1.1 million acres, or 85 percent. Trump also signed a proclamation nearly halving the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument, which is also in southern Utah and has significant coal deposits.

“This is not about energy,” Zinke told reporters Tuesday. “There is no mine within Bears Ears.”

But the nation’s sole uranium processing mill sits directly next to the boundaries that President Barack Obama designated a year ago when he established Bears Ears. The documents show that Energy Fuels Resources (USA) Inc., a subsidiary of a Canadian firm, urged the Trump administration to limit the monument to the smallest size needed to protect key objects and areas, such as archeological sites, to make it easier to access the radioactive ore.

In a May 25 letter to the Interior Department, Chief Operating Officer Mark Chalmers wrote that the 1.35 million-acre expanse Obama created “could affect existing and future mill operations.” He later noted, “There are also many other known uranium and vanadium deposits located within the [original boundaries] that could provide valuable energy and mineral resources in the future.”
posted by chris24 at 10:56 PM on December 8, 2017 [47 favorites]


Restaurant managers can hold a waitress's tips hostage until she blows him,

I'm not sure this kind of hyperbole and casual invoking of sexual assault is necessary. For one thing, the rule only applies it the waitstaff if making federal minimum wage, which is not the case most places, so he'd have to raise her pay by $5/hr first, then withhold tips, and then requesting sexual favors would still be illegal. With all the icky sexual harassment and assault details that are real news items, I don't really need new imagined ones taking up space in my brain. It's just unnecessary.
posted by threeturtles at 1:01 AM on December 9, 2017 [38 favorites]


So watching the news of the week filtered through whatever clips networks deign to post to YouTube I had a striking realization. Flynn is a distraction. All this shit about Don Jr. and WikiLeaks, sanctions, etc is still not even the original conspiracy.

The original quid pro quo that started the whole thing was Putin approving the Trump development in Russia in exchange for Trump running for President to help with the kneecapping Hillary thing. I think the original plan was to ensure Trump won the nomination and come very close to winning but fail, thus avoiding scrutiny while still making Hillary look like shit because she could barely win over the obviously outlandish Trump.

The only bit I'm not yet sure about is whether the win was a result of changed plans, interference by other third parties that wasn't planned for (perhaps the "independent" fake news houses that popped up in other parts of eastern Europe made their disinfo campaign more effective), or Bannon and/or Flynn went off the reservation for reasons of their own, say offers of big money from Turkey to pick one possibility.

Anyway, I'm concerned that the broughaha may indeed turn out to be primarily over things that don't connect directly to Trump, not because he's clean, but because we're being distracted by the shinier things that were going on around him. Hopefully it still brings his ass down or Mueller makes it back that far.
posted by wierdo at 1:29 AM on December 9, 2017 [26 favorites]


The thing that intrigues me about the Brooks piece is his acknowledgement that Trump could fire Mueller and congress would not take action.

I am just not sure how many people see that as a possibility. I talk with my shrink about this all the time, and I'm under the impression he things Watergate standards will prevail. My take is that the norms that bind us are being destroyed and therefore all bets are off.

I mentioned David Brooks column to my shrink, whose sort of "we will recover from this" attitude has sort of perplexed me--he's incredibly well-read and very well traveled, in his late eighties. There are a lot of explanations for his optimism, I suppose, including the fact that he has a grandchild in the Peace Corp in Cameroon, he lived through the Great Depression, he's a Jewish man who just returned from a trip to Germany and is very impressed with how that country is now. I mean, those things cut both ways in terms of optimism/despair, but he's on the optimism side of things. The arc of justice bends slowly towards justice, maybe is his outlook.

I'd been in a bad state last week, and I told him this week I'd been feeling better, and I'd been contemplating the character of Kent in Lear, and how Kent is sort of a personification of stoic philosophy in that play. He puts himself at great personal risk to oppose Reagan/Goneril, and gets put in the stocks because he's basically like FUCK you. FUCK you. FUCK YOU ESPECIALLY. But then he sort of sings a happy tune when he's in the stocks, like, oh well, I'm fucked, hopefully my fortunes will change, but I'm not in control of it.

Anyway, I told my shrink about how I sort of found my latest favorite protest sign "Fuck This Shit" scrawled in pencil on a mangy piece of cardboard with little ornamentation analogous to Kent's attitude.

My shrink said, with some level of intensity, "You want people in the streets."
And I was like, "Yes. Yes. Of course. That is an appropriate response."

And he eyed me silently and our time was up and I was like "Well at least the Eagles are doing well, aren't they?"
posted by angrycat at 6:07 AM on December 9, 2017 [38 favorites]


> I mentioned David Brooks column to my shrink, whose sort of "we will recover from this" attitude has sort of perplexed me

A "we will recover from this" attitude is kind of necessary to function in society these days. I am not the most optimistic person by a long shot, but part of me deep down I think still truly believes that we'll all somehow muddle through climate change, Trump, omnipresent surveillance, weaponized AI/automation, etc., etc., etc., because giving in to the alternative belief would result in utter despair and a complete lack of ability to get out of bed in the morning.

I also can't help but notice that a lot of the most optimistic people I know are Boomers who will quite possibly not be alive to experience the results - good or bad - of these ongoing trends. I work with a lot of Boomers, and many of them are happily preparing to retire. Life's been good! Sure, the future looks a little rocky in some ways, but it'll all work out in the end, right? Of course, if my line of work (librarianship) were a ship it would be heeling to the side in an increasingly alarming manner, but that just makes it the perfect time to take to the lifeboats.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:23 AM on December 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


Speaking as a man in his sixties, it's easy to be optimistic when you know you won't live to see the consequences of the forces in motion today.
posted by SPrintF at 6:27 AM on December 9, 2017 [26 favorites]


The office of New York attorney general Eric Schneiderman laid groundwork to revoke the charitable status of the conservative group Project Veritas last week, claiming it had misled the state about its president James O’Keefe’s past criminal conviction.


Florida bars Project Veritas founder James O’Keefe from fundraising due to criminal conviction (Shawn Boberg, WaPo)
James O'Keefe, the conservative founder of a charity that specializes in undercover videos targeting journalists and liberals, has been personally barred from seeking donations in Florida due to his criminal record, officials said.

The ban is part of a wave of scrutiny by regulators in several states after New York officials threatened last week to prohibit Project Veritas from raising money in that state. The charity did not disclose O'Keefe's 2010 conviction for entering a federal building under false pretenses, as required, New York officials said.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:49 AM on December 9, 2017 [16 favorites]


I think whether "we" will come out of this OK is intersectional, as always. And I know I'm preaching to the damn choir here on MeFi about this. For instance, I'm white, cis/het, able-bodied, live in a blue state, am educated, skilled, and well-off. And though I'm a woman, I'm past childbearing age. So while I get age and sex discrimination, my other attributes and the fact that I live in an indigo-blue state keeps me sheltered from the worst - and living in a blue state shelters me from at least some age and sex bias as well.

For people who are trans, who are Muslim, who are undocumented, who live in red states, etc. etc. etc. - they might not get through this OK.

I am an optimist, but I realize that I can afford my optimism. I hate despair, because I think it drags down the will to make things better - after all, the Civil Rights marchers didn't sing "We Shall Be Overcome!" - but there are a lot of people who are in the crosshairs of the Republican administration and I cannot blame them for being afraid and wondering if they will make it.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 6:50 AM on December 9, 2017 [53 favorites]


*head explodes*

Normally-sane Johnathan Alter on TV claiming we need to make a distinction between "criminal" activity by the Moores and Weinstein and what Franken did.

UNWANTED TOUCHING IS A CRIME. Seems like Alter thinks we should get rid of the felons but give the misdemeanors a second chance.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:56 AM on December 9, 2017 [11 favorites]


We will get through this. But we won’t get through this unscathed, and it’s going to be a lot worse for some than others.
posted by azpenguin at 7:02 AM on December 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


Mod note: Hi folks, totally fair for people to be torn over trying to focus on the bad things clearly vs trying to maintain some optimism, but having noted that, let's drop it in here; this is a particular topic we've gone around and around, people settle on different answers for themselves in terms of how they need to cope. If anyone needs to vent or talk emotions, let's take that over to the wtf Metatalk thread.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:11 AM on December 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


Roy Moore is the last straw, you can now call me a Democrat (Kurt Bardella, USA Today Op-Ed)
I am throwing in with the Democratic Party because at the end of the day, I believe its portrait of America is better than the one being painted by today’s Republican Party. And I want to be a part of it.

Kurt Bardella is a former spokesperson for Reps. Brian Bilbray (R-Calif.), Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine), the House Oversight & Government Reform Committee, and Breitbart News
Points for not declaring himself an Independent.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:50 AM on December 9, 2017 [88 favorites]


Another bit from Bardella's op-ed:
The more time I spent on my own, with no clients to defend, the more I came to realize that Republican positions on the most pressing challenges facing our society were out of alignment with what I believed. This is a party that constantly buries its head in the sand on climate change, racial profiling, guns, LGBTQ equality, income inequality, food insecurity, paid family leave and the treatment of women.
It sounds like he's been a budding Democrat for a while.
posted by nangar at 8:13 AM on December 9, 2017 [38 favorites]


My only yeah-but with the Bardello Op-Ed is that, like Brooks upthread, he neglects to recognize the long rot of the GOP. Moore and Trump are the popped blisters after a 50-year march under the dog-whistle banners of misogyny, racism, and xenophobia.
posted by carsonb at 8:17 AM on December 9, 2017 [20 favorites]


When you call your GOP members of congress, remember that the staffers you talk to might be about to have the very same realizations that Bardello is having. It's another reason to keep calling. Make them think about what they are supporting.
posted by mcduff at 8:35 AM on December 9, 2017 [59 favorites]


Also from Bardella's op-ed:
I believed then, as I do right now, that government can be an instrument of good that raises the welfare of it citizens it serves.

This has never been a republican position.

Also, I don't think the republican party "buries its head in the sand on climate change, racial profiling, guns, LGBTQ equality, income inequality, food insecurity, paid family leave and the treatment of women."

They know climate change is real, but doing something about it would cut into profits, racial profiling is real, and they like it, guns are an obvious problem, but they're so profitable that they're willing to let people die in droves, they don't like LGBTQ equality, income equality, food security, paid family leave, and they want women treated poorly.

Burying your head in the sand is when you ignore something because you don't want to deal with it. They are fully aware and actively working to do harm on every one of those issues.

How old is this guy? He says he was 16 when Columbine happened, which would put him somewhere around my age, but I'm not old enough to remember a time when the republican party wasn't actively working against progress in every area he cites. I'm glad he changed his mind, but where the hell was he that he found a GOP that was supporting the welfare of the country's citizens?
posted by mrgoat at 8:59 AM on December 9, 2017 [24 favorites]


As a former Republican and conservative I can say that the process of leaving that identity is messy, so I don't expect someone who does so to immediately grasp the extent of the lies they believed. If this guy votes Democratic, that's sufficient for me. Hopefully he is the first of many.
posted by emjaybee at 9:22 AM on December 9, 2017 [74 favorites]


Identities are extremely hard to shed and they get harder the longer you have them and the more time, emotion, social relationships, and wealth you have invested in them. Absolutely hammer on people who need hammered on, but be sure to care for people who need caring for.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:31 AM on December 9, 2017 [21 favorites]


How old is this guy? He says he was 16 when Columbine happened, which would put him somewhere around my age, but I'm not old enough to remember a time when the republican party wasn't actively working against progress in every area he cites. I'm glad he changed his mind, but where the hell was he that he found a GOP that was supporting the welfare of the country's citizens?

These are not bright guys, etc.
posted by rhizome at 9:35 AM on December 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


The Republican soundbite platform - not the thing that actually gets published; the bits that get quoted all over - says they are for businesses, and people having the autonomy to make their own decisions about their resources, and strong families and communities. Those are all terrific things. It takes focus and effort to look past that and realize what they're doing that claims to support those things is a pack of lies founded on graft and incompetence.

And of course, cis het white guys are benefiting from their efforts, so they don't have a reason to look for the lies; it takes feedback from the people around them to give them the information they're missing.

(Saw an article some years ago, about a rich dude starting to get woke; he had been sneering at a poor school's "life skills" class, that included "take the kids out to a restaurant." Whodahell thinks "go to a restaurant" is a life skill? And he had to be told: Many of these kids have never been to a restaurant in their lives, not one with servers and silverware; they considered McDonald's to be "fancy dinner." And he realized he needed to reassess.)

Without that lightbulb moment, they stay Republicans, and eventually they've got too much shame and guilt to consider changing, because it'd be too hard to admit how much they've been complicit.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:44 AM on December 9, 2017 [24 favorites]


Mod note: Enough with the "whence Republicans" and so on; been there done that.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:46 AM on December 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


Whodahell thinks "go to a restaurant" is a life skill?

There is an excellent scene in The Wire about this.
posted by rhizome at 9:50 AM on December 9, 2017 [28 favorites]


No less horrifying by its total obviousness, Trump spends at least 4 and often 8 hours every day watching TV. And the rest of the day tweeting and assuaging his ego and hurt feelings.

For comparison, the average American watches 5 hours of TV a day.

NYT: INSIDE TRUMP’S HOUR-BY-HOUR BATTLE FOR SELF-PRESERVATION
Around 5:30 each morning, President Trump wakes and tunes into the television in the White House’s master bedroom. He flips to CNN for news, moves to “Fox & Friends” for comfort and messaging ideas, and sometimes watches MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” because, friends suspect, it fires him up for the day.

Energized, infuriated — often a gumbo of both — Mr. Trump grabs his iPhone. Sometimes he tweets while propped on his pillow, according to aides. Other times he tweets from the den next door, watching another television. Less frequently, he makes his way up the hall to the ornate Treaty Room, sometimes dressed for the day, sometimes still in bedclothes, where he begins his official and unofficial calls.

As he ends his first year in office, Mr. Trump is redefining what it means to be president. He sees the highest office in the land much as he did the night of his stunning victory over Hillary Clinton — as a prize he must fight to protect every waking moment, and Twitter is his Excalibur. Despite all his bluster, he views himself less as a titan dominating the world stage than a maligned outsider engaged in a struggle to be taken seriously, according to interviews with 60 advisers, associates, friends and members of Congress.

For other presidents, every day is a test of how to lead a country, not just a faction, balancing competing interests. For Mr. Trump, every day is an hour-by-hour battle for self-preservation. He still relitigates last year’s election, convinced that the investigation by Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel, into Russia’s interference is a plot to delegitimize him. Color-coded maps highlighting the counties he won were hung on the White House walls.

Before taking office, Mr. Trump told top aides to think of each presidential day as an episode in a television show in which he vanquishes rivals. People close to him estimate that Mr. Trump spends at least four hours a day, and sometimes as much as twice that, in front of a television, sometimes with the volume muted, marinating in the no-holds-barred wars of cable news and eager to fire back.
posted by chris24 at 9:56 AM on December 9, 2017 [41 favorites]


My only yeah-but with the Bardello Op-Ed is that, like Brooks upthread, he neglects to recognize the long rot of the GOP. Moore and Trump are the popped blisters after a 50-year march under the dog-whistle banners of misogyny, racism, and xenophobia.

this sentiment's been popping up a fair bit in this thread, and elsewhere. And yeah, it's probably correct, but it also feels divisive and reductive to a fault (ie: those guys aren't just wrong, they're utterly, completely wrong and they always have been utterly, completely fucking WRONG). Problem is, for instance, my dad was one of those guys (a lifelong conservative, always likely to be looking for that point of view that supported a mostly white, small town, good-ole-days way of looking at stuff). But my dad was not particularly misogynistic (he was deeply supportive of my mom's career, always), nor racist (he worked regularly with First Nation's folks and quickly learned that they just sometimes worked from different priorities than his, and yeah, he literally killed Nazis in WW2), nor was he homophobic for that matter (talk to my younger brother about that). He was no saint. I argued with him a lot about his politics and their frustrating hypocricies, but I never for a moment doubted his basic decency.

None of this means I dispute that where we are now is a direct result of an incremental grinding down (and out) of everything that was ever decent about the GOP, but the key word there is incremental. It wasn't always so obvious where things were headed (and to insist so now reeks to me of the worst kind of black-hat vs white-hat sort of thinking). And, for what its worth, beware of the rot in your own organizations, liberal-progressive types. It's there, it's happening and, if neglected, will go on to sew its own inevitable poisoning in time.
posted by philip-random at 10:18 AM on December 9, 2017 [46 favorites]


None of this means I dispute that where we are now is a direct result of an incremental grinding down (and out) of everything that was ever decent about the GOP, but the key word there is incremental.

The presentation, AIUI, is that all of a sudden the GOP fell over. No looking back to figure out how they didn't see it coming, how many increments more than one brought them here. The problem I have with Brooks et al is that they don't do any soul searching, history searching, or really any searching beyond the current news cycle. You can bet a wordcake that if the tide shifts Brooks will instantly turn back to sail into the dawn.
posted by rhizome at 10:24 AM on December 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


There is an excellent scene in The Wire about this.

And of course the trickling of time reminds me that there a second great scene about this a couple of seasons later.
posted by rhizome at 10:31 AM on December 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


There are a lot of disillusioned Republicans and former Republicans who want to believe that the corruption in their party began on Jan 21, 2017, or maaaaaybe July of 2016 at the convention. They want to believe that before that, there were some isolated "bad apples," but the party as a whole lived up to the soundbites.

And we have to push back against that belief, because it means that if the current president and his swarm of maggots are ousted, they will breathe a sigh of relief and go back to "business as usual," because paying attention is hard, and they, like the rest of us, really want to believe that one big push, one big house cleaning, will make it All Good Forever.

They don't like to recognize that house cleaning has to be done all the time to be effective. That you have to put thought and energy into it every day. That elections won't stay clean because you threw out the cheats and added a process for accountability. In short: they don't want to do the cognitive and emotional labor of making the country a good place to live.

They want to believe that corruption is individual, evil people, and once you identify them and stop them, it's all good. They don't want to believe that corruption is often someone who's a little desperate or a little curious about what he can get away with, and that it feeds on itself.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:33 AM on December 9, 2017 [26 favorites]


INSIDE TRUMP’S HOUR-BY-HOUR BATTLE FOR SELF-PRESERVATION

My favorite part about these personality pieces is that whoever is leaking and providing background never forgets to point out that, while Trump is generally an asshole to everyone, he's not mean to the random children he encounters:
In private moments with the families of appointees in the Oval Office, the president engages with children in a softer tone than he takes in public
Apparently not berating children with racist tirades is enough to show you're not a complete and total villain. Also see Hitler's love of animals and vegetarianism
posted by dis_integration at 10:48 AM on December 9, 2017 [34 favorites]


Apparently not berating children with racist tirades is enough to show you're not a complete and total villain

Not berating children in public. Literally the only positive thing they found to say about him in the whole very long article, was that he is able to restrain his basest impulses sometimes, when around children, when in private. They obviously couldn’t claim the same applies in public, after his address to the Boy Scouts.

Also, in an article full of low points, one of the many nadirs has to be:
“Who is going to run against me in 2020?” he asked, according to a person in attendance. “Crooked Hillary? Pocahontas?” — his caustic nickname for Senator Elizabeth Warren, Democrat of Massachusetts, who once claimed Native American heritage on an employment form.

Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, the president opined, would definitely run — “even if he’s in a wheelchair,” Mr. Trump added, making a scrunched-up body of a man in a wheelchair.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 11:09 AM on December 9, 2017 [26 favorites]


LOL can you imagine a president in a wheelchair


(sorry for the noise)
posted by birdheist at 11:22 AM on December 9, 2017 [48 favorites]


Mr. Trump added, making a scrunched-up body of a man in a wheelchair.

I really hate this fucking guy
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:38 AM on December 9, 2017 [92 favorites]


The problem I have with Brooks et al is that they don't do any soul searching, history searching, or really any searching beyond the current news cycle. You can bet a wordcake that if the tide shifts Brooks will instantly turn back to sail into the dawn.

With Brooks, and these others: Yes, we can hold to the fact this rot long predates Trump and that it's all built on racism, sexism, and general hate and resentment. We don't have to pretend otherwise. But flipping out and rubbing someone's nose in it the moment they start turning away from the mess doesn't do us or them any favors.

That kind of reflection only comes with time. Let them make the break from the rot first. Eventually it'll dawn on them that it was always there, but they're going to need distance. It's not unlike someone breaking from a bad, abusive, manipulative relationship. They're gonna have some nostalgia at first, some moments of "It wasn't always bad." With time they're more likely to realize it was always bad and they were always being manipulated.

Watching somebody break from the bad and greeting it with a kick in the ass might provide a moment of venting frustration, but that kick isn't going to make that break easier or more appealing for anyone else who sees it.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:41 AM on December 9, 2017 [32 favorites]


Mod note: One deleted; we way don't need to get into whether a Mefite's personal family member was a bad person etc. This whole "but are there ever good Republicans, what did they think, how harsh should we be to them now" is a well-explored subject here and I'm gonna ask us to drop it. If it's a slow news day, this thread can just be quiet. There are a lot of other things to look at on the site including: other recent USpolitics posts, or Mefi Chat, or the many many fun posts being tagged for categories in the best post contest, or found WWII letters, or a great discussion about Casablanca, or butt jokes.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:50 AM on December 9, 2017 [24 favorites]


INSIDE TRUMP’S HOUR-BY-HOUR BATTLE FOR SELF-PRESERVATION

The article gives the impression of a whole US administration managing like the family of an abusive parent manages. They have lost all connection with reality and are just struggling to survive day to day, with no outlook and no hope of a better future. As someone who grew up in that sort of family, this is terrifying in more than one way.

For those of you who didn't grow up that way, please note how people who have previously functioned just fine get caught up in it all, and begin to invent strategies and excuses that make no sense whatsoever. Kelly is exhibit A, but it is true of every single one of them.
posted by mumimor at 12:23 PM on December 9, 2017 [62 favorites]


Color-coded maps highlighting the counties he won were hung on the White House walls.

Electoral vote maps would show color-coded states.

Maps highlighting the counties he won are maps of his 3 million+ popular vote loss.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:36 PM on December 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


Maps highlighting the counties he won are maps of his 3 million+ popular vote loss.

I'm pretty sure he won overwhelmingly in large land-area, low-population counties, and so a map color-coded in this fashion would probably make it look like he had a broad mandate.
posted by Slothrup at 12:44 PM on December 9, 2017 [18 favorites]


Okay, so you all remember we had a good laugh when I said this:

I wrote myself in on all of the unopposed races, so I may have five jobs tomorrow.

And then I actually got elected as Tax Collector with two votes?

Yeah, so I'm also now the newly elected Judge of Elections. With two votes.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:05 PM on December 9, 2017 [274 favorites]


Yeah, so I'm also now the newly elected Judge of Elections. With two votes.

For your first case, you need to investigate the massive ballot destruction in your district, because your profile says you have closer to 50,000 votes.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 1:10 PM on December 9, 2017 [19 favorites]


"MeFi's Own Chrysostom, running on a platform of 'meh, somebody should probably be doing this job, and wouldn't it be hilarious if that were me?' received an overwhelming mandate from the people, elected in a landslide with more than 70% more votes than any other candidate. The voters are so confident in Chrysostom's abilities that he was easily elected to two crucial government management roles, showing the incredible trust the electorate has in his skills and integrity."

... Feel free to adjust your resume accordingly.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:11 PM on December 9, 2017 [62 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS, special edition

** Mefites:
  -- ELECTIONS NEWS editor keeps winning elections
posted by zachlipton at 1:13 PM on December 9, 2017 [125 favorites]


INSIDE TRUMP’S HOUR-BY-HOUR BATTLE FOR SELF-PRESERVATION

The Times had 60 sources for that story. Sixty.
posted by schmod at 1:15 PM on December 9, 2017 [64 favorites]


The first year that my now-wife and I went to vote together she told me that she sometimes wrote in her own name for offices with no declared opponent. The reason being that she could check the official vote records and make sure that her name was counted.

I also wrote in her name, partially for the same reason and partially on the off-chance that no one else bothered and she actually won with two votes. Besides, shes more qualified.

I'm certain someone did the same thing to Chrysostom.
posted by VTX at 1:17 PM on December 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


I'm pretty sure he won overwhelmingly in large land-area, low-population counties, and so a map color-coded in this fashion would probably make it look like he had a broad mandate.

Sure, I know that's why he likes them, but it's not as impressive if you adjust for population.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:22 PM on December 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


> The article gives the impression of a whole US administration managing like the family of an abusive parent manages.

I've made a lot of predictions that turned out to be horribly, catastrophically wrong, but this one was spot on.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:29 PM on December 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


ShareBlue: Trump huddles on Air Force One with Republicans plotting to purge Mueller.

Not to be paranoid, but in my admittedly naive opinion, it appears more likely than not that Trump will either fire Mueller or do something else to derail or destroy the investigation, and that time appears to be drawing near. Apart from mass demonstrations, is there anything else that we can plan for, mobilize, or otherwise do?
posted by StrawberryPie at 1:35 PM on December 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


Trump huddles on Air Force One with Republicans plotting to purge Mueller.

The opening for that piece is incredible: "Trump is surrounding himself with the loudest and most reckless voices, who keep telling him one dangerous thing: Fire Robert Mueller," followed by a picture of him looking at his own reflection.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:39 PM on December 9, 2017 [13 favorites]


Apart from mass demonstrations, is there anything else that we can plan for, mobilize, or otherwise do?

Richard W. Painter, professor of law at the University of MN and former chief White House ethics lawyer for Pres. George W. Bush from '05 to '07, suggests a general strike. Sounds good to me.
posted by entropicamericana at 1:43 PM on December 9, 2017 [27 favorites]


Trump huddles on Air Force One with Republicans plotting to purge Mueller.

the moment to do it, of course, would be Christmas Eve or thereabouts ... at exactly the moment that nobody wants to rise up and overthrow anything except perhaps their state of indigestion.
posted by philip-random at 1:54 PM on December 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


Mass demonstrations would work if they were massive enough and sustained. And it couldn't be one of those wellll come out and protest if you can and if your job will give you the time off. It would be time to protest and keep protesting even if you get fired.
posted by Justinian at 2:07 PM on December 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


On the other hand fucking up Christmas to own the libs is so very him.
posted by Artw at 2:41 PM on December 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


NRC, one of the leading newspapers in the Netherlands, has a rather damning opinion piece (Dutch), here in an almost-readable GTranslated version (English): The end of a world power is not a pleasant sight.
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:42 PM on December 9, 2017 [11 favorites]


(Article written by Frans Verhagen.)
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:44 PM on December 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


BI: 'He was thrown to the wolves': Former FBI agents defend ousted Mueller investigator as Trump attacks 'rigged' DOJ
Former FBI agents who spoke to Business Insider this week characterized the outcry as "nonsense" aimed at discrediting an investigation that has dogged Trump and the GOP more broadly for over a year.

Frank Montoya, Jr., a former FBI special agent who served as the Director of the Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive, was blunt. "There is a lot of anger in the FBI (the entire intelligence community, for that matter) over how this president will say nary a negative word about the Russians, but will insult us every chance he gets," he said.
...
The nature of FBI investigations makes it impossible for one employee to exert outsized influence over others, former agents emphasized.

"There's been a lot of accusation lately in the public arena about how Pete's supposed biases may have affected outcome of the email investigation and predication for Russia investigation," Montoya said. "More nonsense. Pete wasn't the only guy working on those cases," he added. "His was one voice, albeit an important one, but there were other important voices in the mix, too."

With regard to the email investigation, Montoya said, "professional, experienced prosecutors and senior leadership (above Pete) in the FBI played the key roles in the final decision not to prosecute Clinton. Pete may have helped draft the public messaging at the conclusion of the case, but he didn't act alone. I participated in quite a few of these matters myself and the planning process was always a group effort."

Former FBI unit chief Mark Rossini, who spent 17 years at the bureau, largely agreed. "It would be literally impossible for one human being to have the power to change or manipulate evidence or intelligence according to their own political preferences," he said. "FBI agents, like anyone else, are human beings. We are allowed to have our political beliefs. If anything, the overwhelming majority of agents are conservative Republicans," he added.

Former FBI counterintelligence agent Asha Rangappa made a similar point in an interview earlier this week. "The FBI investigators who are working on any given day will probably be mostly politically conservative," Rangappa said, drawing from her interactions with agents under President George W. Bush. That is one reason, she said, why Republicans should "think carefully" about the precedent they're setting in pointing to agents' political leanings as evidence of a tainted investigation.
posted by chris24 at 2:47 PM on December 9, 2017 [34 favorites]


Mass demonstrations would work if they were massive enough and sustained.

Republicans in congress will have to be afraid for their safety for them to support impeachment, because they are afraid for their safety if they do support impeachment. I am not advocating this, but at this point they are so far down the Trump/rich donor rabbit hole I have no faith "norms" will save anything. We are not in the era of Nixon.

Perhaps he would be impeached if the Koch brothers, the Mercers, and a dozen other R backer billionaires decided he was rat poison, but why would they? The only thing that would cause the oligarchs to turn on him would be if he decided to increase taxes on them.
posted by benzenedream at 2:48 PM on December 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


Are these paid positions, Chrysostom? Because if so, holy hell what a potential way to get some competent but poor people decent paying jobs.
posted by zug at 3:13 PM on December 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


For the reasons given above by other people, I don't see impeachment as a possibility. Right now, Trump-friendly operatives are laying the groundwork to give GOP senators the cover they need to declare Mueller's results questionable, if not outright invalid.
posted by StrawberryPie at 3:23 PM on December 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's a bit unfortunate that Weigel posts a photo of an almost empty stadium and then has to apologize to Trump and WP readers for publishing it. There are better things he could do as a WP reporter to fight Trump by just reporting accurately and carefully.
posted by Dumsnill at 3:28 PM on December 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


Compare and contrast presidential speeches on the topic of political engagement and the importance of voting.

First, Donald Trump, at yesterday's rally in Florida (CSPAN video):
It's time to get our priorities straight. This guy's screaming wow "We want Roy Moore." He's right. Democrats in Congress want open borders, higher taxes, and government-run healthcare that doesn't work. Costs a fortune. Doesn't work. They're soft on crime, and they want so suffocate our economy with socialist-style regulation, raise your taxes through the sky, they don't want to vote for our tax cuts because they want the—they want tax increases. That's why we need a Republican in the House. We need a Republican in the Senate. We need more of them. And by the way, just so I can satisfy this gentleman out there, how many people here are from the great state of Alabama? [cheering] Whoa. Well, I have to say this. We have to be fair. So did you see what happened today? The yearbook. Did you see CNN? There was a little mistake made. Started writing things in the yearbook. What are we going to do? Gloria Allred—anytime you see her, you know something is going wrong. We cannot afford—this country, the future of this country, cannot afford to lose a seat in the very, very close United States Senate. We can't afford it, folks. We can't afford to have a liberal Democrat, who is completely controlled by Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. We can't do it. His name is Jones, and he is their total puppet, and everybody knows it. He will never, ever vote for us. We need somebody in that Senate seat who will vote for our Make America Great Again agenda, which involves tough on crime, strong on borders, strong on immigration. We want great people coming into our country. Building the wall, strengthening our military. continuing our great fight for our veterans. I love our veterans. We love our veterans. We want conservative judges, like Judge Gorsuch on the Supreme Court, doing a great job, too. We want people that are going to protect your gun rights, great trade deals instead of the horrible deals. And we want jobs, jobs, jobs. So get out and vote for Roy Moore. Do it.
Next, Barack Obama at Tuesday's Economic Club of Chicago event (Facebook video):
We don't have time to go into detail about everything people should do, but I wouldn't underestimate the very simple act of being engaged—of paying attention and speaking out. Typically that's what it comes down to in a democracy. And I do think that because we've been so wealthy and so successful that we get complacent and assume that things continue the they way that have been automatically. And they don't. You have to tend to this garden of democracy, otherwise things can fall apart fairly quickly. And we've seen societies where that happens. Now, presume there was a ballroom here in Vienna in the late 1920s or '30s that looked pretty sophisticated and seemed as if it, filled with the music and art and literature and science that was emerging, would continue into perpetuity. And then 60 million people died. An entire world was plunged into chaos. So you got to pay attention—and vote.
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:37 PM on December 9, 2017 [48 favorites]


And we've seen societies where that happens. Now, presume there was a ballroom here in Vienna in the late 1920s or '30s that looked pretty sophisticated and seemed as if it, filled with the music and art and literature and science that was emerging, would continue into perpetuity. And then 60 million people died. An entire world was plunged into chaos. So you got to pay attention—and vote.

On the one hand, he's exactly right. On the other hand, when over-cautious-at-every-turn Obama is making Weimer Republic/Nazi analogies, that means it is the time for everyone else to be like six steps beyond that.
posted by corb at 3:43 PM on December 9, 2017 [131 favorites]


I'm way past the point of impatient about the whole Mueller thing. Drop the hammer already.
posted by Sphinx at 5:08 PM on December 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


It's a bit unfortunate that Weigel posts a photo of an almost empty stadium and then has to apologize to Trump and WP readers for publishing it.

He's calling for someone to be fired. Over misrepresenting crowd size.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:13 PM on December 9, 2017 [14 favorites]


Which is amusing, but will fly over Trump supporters' (and most other voters') heads.
posted by Dumsnill at 5:20 PM on December 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


The press is the de facto government.

klanawa, in the thread on CJR's piece about the NYT and election coverage.

Quoted here because it's been stuck with me all day. It's perfect. I think Trump knows it.
posted by petebest at 5:36 PM on December 9, 2017


This was just retweeted by WSJ even though it was published Dec. 4: Mueller’s Credibility Problem. I don't mean to replay twitter here; I only mention it because it shows WSJ actively propagating anti-Mueller sentiments.
posted by StrawberryPie at 5:41 PM on December 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


Democrats in Congress want open borders, higher taxes, and government-run healthcare that doesn't work.

Except for EVERY OTHER G20 COUNTRY ON THE PLANET BESIDES JAPAN AND RUSSIA.
posted by Talez at 5:44 PM on December 9, 2017 [20 favorites]


Well, not the open borders part. But it's just a lie that all Democrats want open borders.
posted by Justinian at 6:03 PM on December 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


The entire EU is one big open border zone. Most of the countries in the G20 will let you in with a bachelor's degree. The US is fucking insane to move to without a Nobel prize, Olympic gold, eight figures of net wealth, or a US citizen spouse and even then that's touch and go.
posted by Talez at 6:14 PM on December 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


As far as I can tell, “open borders” is Republican for “you don’t agree with me on immigration”. Any time I’ve asked my rep, the odious Greg Walden, about the Wall or ICE he says “I’m not an open borders guy” - like THAT was what was asked.
posted by hilaryjade at 6:20 PM on December 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


He's calling for someone to be fired. Over misrepresenting crowd size.

WaPo should be like, if people need to be fired over false statements, then ok.
You first.
posted by xigxag at 6:50 PM on December 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


Mod note: Getting a little chatty, folks.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 7:01 PM on December 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


From MoveOn, here is Portia B., a grandmother from Appalachia, speaking truth to power.

WE ARE COMING FOR YOU.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:15 PM on December 9, 2017 [20 favorites]


zug: "Are these paid positions, Chrysostom? Because if so, holy hell what a potential way to get some competent but poor people decent paying jobs."

The tax collector has a theoretical salary of something like $18k, but most of that is used to pay for the collection service that does the actual work (I think this is near universal in PA). The actual collector ends up getting $200/month.

The judge of elections gets paid (I believe) $120 per election day worked, so basically two days a year.

I still need to call the county Monday to see if I'm allowed to hold both offices simultaneously.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:04 PM on December 9, 2017 [30 favorites]


@FoxNews this evening posted a clip from Judge Jeanine: "There have been times in our history where corruption and lawlessness were so pervasive, that examples had to be made. This is one of those times." Openly calling for the arrest of law enforcement officials investigating Trump.
posted by StrawberryPie at 8:53 PM on December 9, 2017 [13 favorites]


Trump's entire career has been a "time in our history where corruption and lawlessness were so pervasive, that examples have to be made" and America is in its dire situation today because we didn't make an example of Dirty Donald decades ago. The outrageous comments of "Judge" Jeanine strongly suggest that a serious investigation of her career will uncover enough to Lock HER Up, because I can no longer think of the defenders of Trump as anything other than his Partners in Crime.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:22 PM on December 9, 2017 [32 favorites]


hexaflexagon: "The Tax Policy Center has a nice easy bar chart to show that the bulk of these cuts go directly to the 0.1% over time, while the rest of us get next to nothing (this of course ignores the enormous spending cuts).

It is hopeful to remember that the majority of us have not yet lost empathy for our fellow man, and this has been rammed through by lobbied interests."

Well, I for one, mostly have lost my empathy for fellow man, but only for 1% of them.
posted by Samizdata at 9:40 PM on December 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


Per the NYT article, that's what Pirro told Trump personally a month ago, "whipping him up" and "agitating" him, before Kelly distracted and pacified him and he got bored and left (these behaviors being due to declining capacity or personality disorders or both, your pick). Pirro plus Trump is some spooky stuff. She's the voice of the Fox News demographic, trying to get through the inner advisory circle. They themselves are too cynical and (at least vaguely) aware of consequences, therefore less likely to do something as crazy as arresting Mueller in order to lock up Hillary. But true believers like Pirro and the hardcore Trumpist base she represents are not just unafraid of totalitarian insanity, they demand it.

Mr. Trump, Mr. Kelly and Donald F. McGahn II, the White House counsel, met for more than an hour on Nov. 1 as Ms. Pirro whipped up the president against Mr. Mueller and accused James B. Comey, the former F.B.I. director, of employing tactics typically reserved for Mafia cases, according to a person briefed on the meeting.

The president became visibly agitated as she spoke. “Roy Cohn was my lawyer!” he exclaimed, referring to the legendary McCarthy-era fixer who mentored Mr. Trump in the 1980s, suggesting that was the type of defender he needed now.

At another point, Mr. Kelly interrupted. She was not “helping things,” he said, according to the person briefed. Even Mr. Trump eventually tired of Ms. Pirro’s screed and walked out of the room, according to the person.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:40 PM on December 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


Jared Kushner is wreaking havoc in the Middle East, comment in the Guardian by Moustafa Bayoumi
posted by mumimor at 10:19 PM on December 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


That article's a bit overwrought, Muminor: reading it, you'd think Kushner had invaded Iraq all on his lonesome and was presently leading a civil war in Yemen with one hand while blocking the Lebanese government with the other.

Yes, the Middle East is a mess, and it hasn't improved under the Trump regime, but it's largely the consequence of things that were set in place over the last decade or more. Possibly Clinton could have calmed some of the region's many crises, but some of them did develop while she was Secretary of State, so ...
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:45 PM on December 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


Here’s where state department diplomacy should kick in. The US ambassador to Qatar could relay messages between the feuding parties to find a solution to the stand-off. So what does the ambassador to Qatar have to say about the Kushner-Salman alliance? Nothing, since there still is no confirmed ambassador to Qatar.

What about the US ambassador to Saudi Arabia? That seat’s also vacant. And the US ambassador to Jordan, Morocco, Egypt? Vacant, vacant, and vacant. What about assistant secretary for Near Eastern affairs, a chief strategic post to establish US policy in the region? No one’s been nominated. Deputy assistant secretary for press and public diplomacy? Vacant.

I think this is a way in which the Trump-Kushner effort has made things decidedly worse, and there is no way it isn't intentional.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:52 PM on December 9, 2017 [20 favorites]


I think it's less intentional in the sense that they intentionally chose to take those specific actions to leave those specific posts vacant, but is totally intentional in the sense of choosing to employ a model of the executive that hasn't been seen in federal government in over a century.

They simply don't know and don't care to know why these positions even exist. They want to have hands on every damn thing quite directly. It's a model that is incompatible with organizations of that size.
posted by wierdo at 11:04 PM on December 9, 2017 [16 favorites]


Possibly Clinton could have calmed some of the region's many crises, but some of them did develop while she was Secretary of State, so ...

I like to remind people that Obama's first Secretary of Defence was the guy who okayed the bogus war in Iraq.
posted by Merus at 11:23 PM on December 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


I think Wierdo has it: the lack of ambassadors is part of Trump's standard model of managerial failure. If he were actively trying to start a war or something he would probably have appointed ambassadors just so he could withdraw them in a fit of pique.

Last year we were all laughing at the idea that an ass like Trump or a callow youth like Kushner could bring peace to the Middle East. And we were right to laugh, because it's an intrinsically ridiculous idea. It's not like the region is a bunch of uncomprehending savages who just need be taught the Gospels in order to lay down their arms and sing Kumbaya. But by the same token, there's no mystical significance to the street address at which you may find the Great Gilded Door Knocker of the Embassy of the United States. Israel and the Palestinians will reach an accord, or they won't, and in six months' time I can't see that this will make any difference.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:36 PM on December 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


The Observer: A battle for public opinion: Trump goes to war over Mueller and Russia
"Should the Mueller investigation find evidence of collusion or other crimes, it’s going to be the Republicans who are going to have to make a decision on impeachment. Fox, which has effectively been a state news network, is cementing the base that will stay with Trump." (Max Bergmann, Center for American Progress)
"Let’s start off with the head of the snake. Mueller’s credibility is in the gutter tonight with these new discoveries, his conflicts of interests, his clear bias, the corruption are on full display. Mueller is frankly a disgrace to the American justice system and has put the country now on the brink of becoming a banana republic." (Sean Hannity, Fox)
posted by runcifex at 1:36 AM on December 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


Ordinary Americans usually have to commute, and have chores. The President just needs to take a leak and throw on a bathrobe.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:21 AM on December 10, 2017 [9 favorites]


That article's a bit overwrought, Muminor: reading it, you'd think Kushner had invaded Iraq all on his lonesome and was presently leading a civil war in Yemen with one hand while blocking the Lebanese government with the other.

Yes, the Middle East is a mess, and it hasn't improved under the Trump regime, but it's largely the consequence of things that were set in place over the last decade or more. Possibly Clinton could have calmed some of the region's many crises, but some of them did develop while she was Secretary of State, so ...

While I agree that nothing at all indicated that Clinton had a plan for or even a chance of negotiating a peace in the Middle East (a huge area with many different and more or less unrelated conflicts), what Trump and Kushner are doing is clearly creating a new set of problems on top of all the ones the region was already dealing with. And the worst among them are those which grow out of the relationship between Kushner and Salman: the escalation in Yemen and the threats towards Qatar, both aspects of an escalation of the Saudi threats against Iran that are tacitly accepted by the Trump administration.
In Israel, what Trump is doing is saying loud and clear what the Palestinians have felt all along, that the US is not a fair broker of peace, so basically he has ended any chance of negotiating a peace there for whatever time he is president. That might not make that much of a difference, but the current unrest may escalate into a third intifada, which will certainly lead to loss of lives on both sides, and a strengthening of the extremists on both sides.

What Trump, Kushner and Salman are conspicuously not doing is addressing the live conflict in Syria, which has repercussions far beyond the Syrian border into Turkey, Lebanon, Israel and Iraq, or the serious situations in Libya, Egypt and Afghanistan. Former fighters from Syria are a growing threat in Europe. To me, this demonstrates that, as the immature and ignorant fools they are, they are focusing entirely on Israel and Iran, and that their understanding of "peace in the Middle East" is that it can be achieved by containing Iran and turning Israel into an apartheid state.
All of that is in itself terrible. But the worst thing is actually the basic premise: that a close relationship between the two "princes" can ever be in the interest of the US. Saudi Arabia continues to support and encourage Wahabi extremism across the world, both in Arab and non-Arab nations, in Muslim and non-Muslim countries. And here, action speaks a whole lot louder than words. It's very nice if Saudi princesses now can drive their own Jaguars. But if Saudi money are still going to mosques and militants that encourage terror and or terrorize civilians, Saudi Arabia is not a friend of peace in the Middle East or elsewhere.
posted by mumimor at 2:35 AM on December 10, 2017 [19 favorites]


I don't see what there is to be done, and earlier interventionist US policies led directly to where we are now. Do you really want Trump playing commander-in-chief? I certainly don't. So we're basically stuck with King Log.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:53 AM on December 10, 2017


I want them to not play with the Saudis, and not support the Saudi proxy war against Iran which is further destabilizing the region.
posted by mumimor at 3:04 AM on December 10, 2017 [9 favorites]


Remember, they are not only not protesting at all, they are supplying arms.
posted by mumimor at 3:05 AM on December 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


The region's ongoing problems are by now largely self-generated. If Trump were a normal President and these were normal times I think the US would certainly have intervened to prevent Iran's expansion. Unfortunately the US lost a lot of military credibility under Bush2 and Obama didn't win it back. Now that Russia has intervened the stakes are much higher; I don't know if it's worth it even if Iran ends up with a new Persian Empire. One thing's for sure: I don't want Trump fighting a war.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:48 AM on December 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Atlantic: The North Korea Debate Sounds Eerily Familiar - Trump’s national-security officials are making many of the same arguments Bush’s did in 2003.
posted by bluecore at 4:32 AM on December 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


Moore bumps Jones from top spot in Alabama Senate poll (The Hill)
Embattled Republican Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore is now leading his Democratic rival, Doug Jones, by 4 points, according to a new survey.

A Gravis Marketing poll finds Moore has 49 percent support in the Alabama Senate race, while 45 percent support back Jones.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:58 AM on December 10, 2017


Why Democrats win even if they lose in Alabama (Politico)

“The party will either pick up a seat in the Deep South — or have Roy Moore to campaign against in the midterms.”
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:02 AM on December 10, 2017 [18 favorites]


Worth noting that FiveThirtyEight considers 4 points within the margin of error for Senate races, and that Senate races tend to poll in a particularly volatile manner depending on your 'likely voter' model.

Basically, if Democrats in Alabama get out the voters - it's the first credible opportunity for a win in Alabama in years, but that means they don't have the institutional knowledge to do it well - they'll win.
posted by Merus at 6:18 AM on December 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


Senate races tend to poll in a particularly volatile manner depending on your 'likely voter' model.

And especially this one with the craziness/awfulness of Moore in a special election during the holidays. Two days ago SurveyMonkey polled Alabama and did a unique thing; they didn't make a prediction. Instead they showed the data and used different likely voter models to demonstrate how that affects the results. Among registered voters, Jones leads Moore by eight percentage points (53 to 45 percent). But then depending on which likely voter model they use, the poll results in everything from a 8 point Jones lead to a 9 point Moore lead. It's worth a read.
posted by chris24 at 6:37 AM on December 10, 2017 [28 favorites]


Richard Shelby was on CNN going off on Moore again this morning - though I've seen commentary that his position (writing in an unnamed prominent republican w zero chance of winning) is still to be construed as "child molesters and dems are equally unsupportable". AL.com has an editorial article up encouraging conservatives to follow suit. With no other races to vote in I wonder what would compel a registered republican who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Moore to show up to a polling place only to throw their vote away.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 7:04 AM on December 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


With no other races to vote in I wonder what would compel a registered republican who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Moore to show up to a polling place only to throw their vote away.

I'm hopeful that many Republican women will dutifully accompany their husbands or parents to the polls and then leave the ballot blank or write-in a candidate instead if they can't bring themselves to vote for Jones. See also: young men in the same scenario, people who take pride in never missing an election, future politicians who anticipate needing to claim later that they voted a particular way, etc.
posted by carmicha at 7:23 AM on December 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


With no other races to vote in I wonder what would compel a registered republican who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Moore to show up to a polling place only to throw their vote away.

Their desire to fight and take the party back from the paint huffers.
posted by Talez at 7:33 AM on December 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump attack on WTO sparks backlash from members
Mr Trump has in recent months repeatedly accused the WTO and its dispute arm of bias against the US, which helped establish the body in the 1990s. His administration is also blocking the appointment of new judges to sit on the WTO’s seven-member appellate body.

That move is seen as an attempt to hobble a system that relies on a neutral arbiter for such transnational disputes, helping prevent trade wars from erupting in recent decades.

Another judge’s term is due to end in the coming days, meaning the appellate body, which uses three-person panels to hear cases, will be down to four members. That will drop to just one by September if the US continues to block appointments.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:50 AM on December 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


I don't know if it's worth it even if Iran ends up with a new Persian Empire. One thing's for sure: I don't want Trump fighting a war.

A new Persian Empire would be a net-positive for world peace, assuming it was possible for it to be formed without starting WW3 (Israel and the Saudis would both go to war over such a thing, Turkey wouldn't be too happy about it either). Iran is a democracy, so I'd rather see them as the builder of an empire in that region than the dictatorial and cruel Saudi regime. In general it seems like the goal of American foreign policy in the middle east since WW2 has been to sow constant chaos and instability, keep all factions at war with each other, supporting one side and then the other, so that no solid alliances can be formed that would seriously threaten the interests of Israel or ARAMCO. Peace is apparently not in our interests.

I also think the solution to the North Korea problem is simple, but diplomatically impossible: remove all sactions, welcome them back into the community of nations, and let bourgeois capitalism transform them from within the way it inevitably does.
posted by dis_integration at 8:54 AM on December 10, 2017 [24 favorites]


I'm hopeful that many Republican women will dutifully accompany their husbands or parents to the polls and then leave the ballot blank or write-in a candidate instead if they can't bring themselves to vote for

2016 called and wants its rosy optimism back.
posted by benzenedream at 8:56 AM on December 10, 2017 [74 favorites]


Every time I think Trump and his people couldn't possibly be more ignorant of how the US has structured the international system to our benefit, they manage to surprise me. He doesn't grasp it, but the WTO is part of what enforces our power around the globe and makes us money from trade.
posted by wierdo at 10:22 AM on December 10, 2017 [18 favorites]


To be fair, it seems like every place of business has a TV showing Fox News all day long in much of the south. I still don't get it, though. Why does a bank need a TV at all?
posted by wierdo at 11:05 AM on December 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


Why does a bank need a TV at all?

The same reason my old high school's classrooms needed them in the late 1990s: someone was paying the school to have them there. I wonder who's paying the bank.
posted by Servo5678 at 11:18 AM on December 10, 2017 [13 favorites]


It gives you something to watch while you're standing in line or waiting for a banker so that you don't notice the wait as much.
posted by VTX at 11:35 AM on December 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


For most of history we were capable of waiting patiently without needing propaganda to distract us.
posted by elsietheeel at 11:42 AM on December 10, 2017 [21 favorites]


What are the voter ID laws in Alabama?
posted by pxe2000 at 11:52 AM on December 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


Why does a bank need a TV at all?
Anyone buying and selling in various types of markets needs to keep an eye on the news. At my old job there was a floor of people marketing natural gas, they had giant flatscreens tuned into multiple news stations.
posted by Bee'sWing at 11:55 AM on December 10, 2017


What are the voter ID laws in Alabama?
Just what you would expect.
posted by Bee'sWing at 11:58 AM on December 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


Kansas's ravaged economy a cautionary tale as Trump plans huge tax cuts for rich / Guardian
Several commenters have mentioned what happened in Kansas, so this is no news, but a nice long-form article you can send your Republican cousins before the holidays.
posted by mumimor at 11:59 AM on December 10, 2017 [9 favorites]


Several commenters have mentioned what happened in Kansas, so this is no news, but a nice long-form article you can send your Republican cousins before the holidays.

Because "the Guardian really set me straight" is something a Republican has ever uttered.
posted by Talez at 12:02 PM on December 10, 2017 [16 favorites]


Because "the Guardian really set me straight" is something a Republican has ever uttered.

LOL, I was thinking as an invitation for debate. But we like our holidays loud.
posted by mumimor at 12:08 PM on December 10, 2017


NYT: INSIDE TRUMP’S HOUR-BY-HOUR BATTLE FOR SELF-PRESERVATION
powered by long spells of cable news and a dozen Diet Cokes.
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
I have never seen a thin person drinking Diet Coke.
11:43 AM · Oct 14, 2012

Trump's Mirror. Always.

The same reason my old high school's classrooms needed them in the late 1990s: someone was paying the school to have them there. I wonder who's paying the bank.

I immediately yelled out "Channel One!" and was not disappointed. I worked on an anti-Channel One advocacy campaign once. The issue was a giant company like Georgia-Pacific creating environmental lesson plans. The extra-slimy thing is that the schools really needed help with resources
posted by Room 641-A at 12:34 PM on December 10, 2017 [42 favorites]


For those like me who didn't know, Georgia-Pacific is a subsidiary of Koch Industries.
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:42 PM on December 10, 2017 [10 favorites]


Oh my god, Channel One!!! This is where I watched Anderson Cooper go grey in literally a few months (Gulf War)... good times.
posted by waitangi at 12:43 PM on December 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


For me this entire year has been like driving a car with a flat tire. I'll have a couple great weeks, being productive and exercising and hanging out with friends. Then I'll accidentally turn on the news and get sucked in and get really depressed for a few weeks or a month. Then I'll snap out of it and be OK for a little bit longer. I don't know what to do.
posted by miyabo at 1:08 PM on December 10, 2017 [17 favorites]


In Franken’s wake, three senators call on President Trump to resign (WaPo)

Three Dems, of course. But still. Keep pushing that window, I say.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 1:34 PM on December 10, 2017 [60 favorites]


Good. Unlike the more complicated calculus over putting impeachment articles forward, with the whole "is there one shot at this" question, calling for Trump's resignation has no down side that I can see.

With stunning chutzpah, he's called for opposition figures and journalistic organizations to be held accountable for sexual harassment allegations or coverups; in this situation turnabout is incredibly fair play.

Normalize the idea that the President should not finish out his term.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:45 PM on December 10, 2017 [35 favorites]


WSJ, Richard Rubin, The Taxman Cometh: Senate Bill’s Marginal Rates Could Top 100% for Some
The possible marginal tax rate of more than 100% results from the combination of tax policies designed to provide benefits to businesses and families but then deny them to the richest people. As income climbs and those breaks phase out, each dollar of income faces regular tax rates and a hidden marginal rate on top of that, in the form of vanishing tax breaks. That structure, if maintained in a final law, would create some of the disincentives to working and to earning business profits that Republicans have long complained about, while opening lucrative avenues for tax avoidance.

Consider, for example, a married, self-employed New Jersey lawyer with three children and earnings of $615,000. Getting $100 in business income beyond that amount would force the lawyer to pay $105.45 in federal and state taxes, according to calculations by the conservative-leaning Tax Foundation. That is more than double the marginal tax rate that household faces today.

If the New Jersey lawyer’s stay-at-home spouse wanted a job, the first $100 of the spouse’s wages would require $107.79 in taxes. And the tax rates for similarly situated residents of California and New York City would be even higher, the Tax Foundation found. Analyses by the Tax Policy Center, which is run by a former Obama administration official, find similar results, with federal marginal rates as high as 85%, and those don’t include items such as state taxes, self-employment taxes or the phase-out of child tax credits.
The people writing our laws are idiots. Moreover, where the hell is Grover Norquist and friends, who, if he actually believed any of what he's been saying for his entire career, would be up in arms screaming about confiscatory 108% marginal tax rates.
posted by zachlipton at 1:56 PM on December 10, 2017 [59 favorites]


An American energy plan straight from coal country
Perry is pushing a plan that would deliver new subsidies to a handful of coal and nuclear companies and keep open decrepit half-century old plants just as [coal baron Robert Murray] had hoped — all in the name of improving the reliability and security of the electrical grid.
...
“You can wrap this Christmas present in whatever paper you want, but it’s still cash for cronies,” Nora Brownell, a consultant and former Federal Energy Regulatory Commission member appointed by President George W. Bush.
...
By helping the least competitive players, the Perry plan would raise rates and add billions of dollars to consumers’ electric bills, say a variety consultants and an independent oversight group.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:03 PM on December 10, 2017 [9 favorites]


The people writing our laws are idiots. Moreover, where the hell is Grover Norquist

I like the idea that the tax reform passed by a right-wing Congress and signed by a neo-fascist President ends up being a stealth-socialist maximum wage bill because of general Republican incompetence but...

No, no 'but'. I'm just going to assume this is the case for sanity's sake.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:04 PM on December 10, 2017 [9 favorites]


Palestinian official: Pence is not welcome in Palestine (Al Jazeera News)
A senior Palestinian official has said that US Vice President Mike Pence is not welcome in the occupied territories during his scheduled visit later this month. […]

A White House official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Al Jazeera on Friday that Pence still "intends" to meet Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, noting it "would be counterproductive" for the Palestinian leader to cancel the meeting.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:31 PM on December 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


Wouldn't it be nice if we had some adults in charge?

China to attack Taiwan ‘the day a US warship visits’
TENSIONS in Asia have just been ramped up another notch, with China reacting with outrage to planned visits by US warships to Taiwan.
“The day that a US Navy vessel arrives in Kaohsiung, is the day that our People’s Liberation Army unites Taiwan with military force,” Chinese diplomat Li Kexin is quoted as telling an embassy event in the United States.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 2:38 PM on December 10, 2017 [14 favorites]


> The people writing our laws are idiots. Moreover, where the hell is Grover Norquist and friends, who, if he actually believed any of what he's been saying for his entire career, would be up in arms screaming about confiscatory 108% marginal tax rates.

To be fair, Laffer never specified what happens after 100%.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:39 PM on December 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


As a narcissist it's not enough to be the most important voice for America. He wants to literally be the State Department as well as President, so the only voice is his. U.S. Diplomat’s Resignation Signals Wider Exodus From State Department.
An award-winning U.S. diplomat who was seen as a rising star at the State Department has issued a scathing resignation letter, accusing Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and the Donald Trump administration of undercutting the State Department and damaging America’s influence in the world.
posted by scalefree at 2:43 PM on December 10, 2017 [41 favorites]


I just looked at google news, and a story from Breitbart is listed as one of the top stories. I used the feedback button to complain about this. Does anyone know if there are groups working on getting them excluded from google news?
posted by medusa at 3:22 PM on December 10, 2017 [18 favorites]


Prominent Reagan appointed appeals court Judge Alex Kozinski accused of sexual misconduct

"Same Japan colluding judge who blatantly violated the human rights of one of our leading ocean conservationists, Captain Paul Watson of the Sea Shepherd" (via)
posted by jeffburdges at 6:00 PM on December 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


Well, seems the Moore and Franken offenses - and Trump's genius idea to attack Franken on Twitter about it - really have brought Trump's back into the spotlight. Megyn Kelly will have three of his accusers on the Today Show tomorrow morning.
Megyn Kelly will have an exclusive live sit-down interview on Monday, Dec. 11 with three women who have publicly accused President Donald Trump of sexual misconduct. The interview will air on NBC News' "Megyn Kelly TODAY" at 9am. Jessica Leeds, Samantha Holvey and Rachel Crooks will share their claims, which President Trump has denied, and stories together for the first time on television.
posted by chris24 at 6:13 PM on December 10, 2017 [49 favorites]


“They believe that Donald Trump is God’s instrument to move us closer to the Rapture, the Judgment, and the End,” she wrote. “Because to them, that’s actually the beginning — the beginning of their reward and heavenly bliss.”
Evangelicals are praying for war in the Middle East.
posted by adamvasco at 6:23 PM on December 10, 2017 [13 favorites]


Diana Butler Bass was also on With Friends Like These with Ana Marie Cox this week, talking about premillennial dispensationalism and why American evangelicals want Trump to blow up the middle east.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:29 PM on December 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


Nice little shout out to Benjamin Wittes, Richard Painter, Walter Shaub, and Norm Eisen:

DC’s Nerd Resistance (Benjamin Freed, Washingtonian)
posted by Room 641-A at 6:36 PM on December 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


Richard Painter has been going a wee bit batshit insane lately over the Franken thing.

I've almost gotten to the point where I'm going to stop following him. He's so down in the weeds and interested in fighting every little pissant battle like the future of America depends on it. I mean, there are battles where America's future will be irreparably harmed (i.e. Jones and Moore) and there is complete insanity (no we don't need a fucking investigation on whether Roger Stone had one of his ratfuckers photoshop the Tweeden image).
posted by Talez at 6:57 PM on December 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


Talez, I actually deleted a side comment about that because I didn’t want to have to explain it!

And on twitter he said that the Ds are throwing away the seat because no Democratic man would ever run again and I was like, fine but I bet some awesome women will run and why do you think that just because a man doesn’t run the Ds can’t keep the seat and another woman was like yeah plus enough with the nihilism but he hasn’t replied.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:05 PM on December 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


This was mentioned just in passing the other day, but I wanted to talk a bit more about a surprise on the Supreme Court gerrymandering front. The Court decided to take up another gerrymandering case for this term - the Maryland one (Benisek v. Lamone) in addition to the Wisconsin one (Gill v. Whitford) they already were deliberating on. Gill had oral arguments back on October 3, and there's been no decision handed down yet. It's normal to hold off on similar cases when the Court is still deliberating on the original one, so observers think something is up, especially given the the Court had earlier declined to hear both cases at the same time.

Possibilities here:

* Gill concerns state legislatures, Benisek is for the US House. Maybe SCOTUS sees a difference here?
* Gill was for the entire statewide set of maps, Benisek is for a single district. Maybe SCOTUS sees an issue with voters challenging district maps that don't directly impact them?
* The Gill argument was mostly about some fairly novel approaches to vote efficiency, the Benisek is more clasically First Amendment based, concerning voter dilution.
* Gill is about a GOP gerrymander, Benisek is a Dem gerrymander. Maybe this is the Kennedy (and Roberts) quest for "balance" and "legacy" - if the Court rules against gerrymanders in both cases, they aren't being partisan.

Analyses from: Lyle Denniston, Sam Wang, Rick Hasen, more Rick Hasen.

I think, overall, this is a good sign. Kennedy has signaled his openness to finding gerrymanders unconstitutional in the past, and seemed skeptical of the defense's (pro-gerrymander) reasoning during oral arguments for Gill. Bringing in Benisek makes it seem that he is trying to come up with some kind of overarching majority opinion.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:28 PM on December 10, 2017 [19 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** AL Senate special:
-- Current RCP average is Moore +3.8.

-- Interesting Twitter thread from pollster Charles Franklin on that SurveyMonkey effort to model the race in different ways.

-- The Montgomery Advertiser notes that Roy Moore has basically entirely disappeared from the campaign trail - fewer than 10 appearances in the last month, and he was out of state over the weekend.

-- Tea leaves dept: Very high absentee ballot requests, SOS expects high turnout.
** Odds & ends:
-- The PA gerrymandering trial wrapped up last week. Plaintiffs (anti-gerrymander) seemed to have the better of arguments, but we shall see. This would redraw district lines for the 2018 election.

-- American Prospect: Things looking better for redistricting reform.

-- WaPo editorial calls for special election to deal with the Virginia House of Delegates problems in HD-28.

-- Politico piece on Gillibrand as her campaign against sexual assault (and as a 2020 candidate).
posted by Chrysostom at 7:55 PM on December 10, 2017 [29 favorites]


And on twitter he said that the Ds are throwing away the seat because no Democratic man would ever run again and I was like, fine but I bet some awesome women will run and why do you think that just because a man doesn’t run the Ds can’t keep the seat and another woman was like yeah plus enough with the nihilism but he hasn’t replied.

There's a lot of chatter on twitter on how Franken shouldn't resign after all, because Reasons. It reminds me all too much of the justifications people were giving for including candidates who were pro Forced Birth. Because if we abandon the mysogynistic status quo, we'll lose elections, totally unlike what we were doing before.

I think at this point, that whenever a Democratic pundit starts talking about how we need to Concentrate on the Important Issues, then you need to look for how women and/or PoC are going to e screwed over.
posted by happyroach at 8:10 PM on December 10, 2017 [44 favorites]


It’s like the argument is, “We need [these] men in order to get Important Work done, and in order to get their buy-in, we need to tolerate their shitty behavior and bullshit priorities.”

No, we really don’t. We don’t need the buy-in of people who can’t contribute meaningfully unless we tolerate their shitty behavior and prioritize their bullshit.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:31 PM on December 10, 2017 [26 favorites]


“They believe that Donald Trump is God’s instrument to move us closer to the Rapture, the Judgment, and the End,” she wrote. “Because to them, that’s actually the beginning — the beginning of their reward and heavenly bliss.”
Evangelicals are praying for war in the Middle East.

It is, literally, a death cult
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:35 PM on December 10, 2017 [46 favorites]


Why I Can No Longer Call Myself an Evangelical Republican by Peter Wehner.

The answer will not surprise you.
posted by scalefree at 8:41 PM on December 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


Gill is about a GOP gerrymander, Benisek is a Dem gerrymander. Maybe this is the Kennedy (and Roberts) quest for "balance" and "legacy" - if the Court rules against gerrymanders in both cases, they aren't being partisan.

On balance a blanket ruling against partisan gerrymandering would be a huge Democratic win. For every Maryland, there's two or three North Carolina's, Pennsylvania's, Ohio's and Virginia's. And nonpartisan redistricting would result in small net D gains even in Texas and Georgia. Yes, Democrats have gerrymandered some states they control too, but as usual it pales compared to what Republicans have done in every single state they've taken power even for a single cycle.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:44 PM on December 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


Oh yes, no argument there - the effect of gerrymandering is disproportionately to favor Republicans. My point is more from a PR standpoint, which I think does play a role in the decisions of the justices.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:46 PM on December 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


UPCOMING SPECIAL ELECTIONS - JANUARY - PART 1

Gah, I'm late on these. But it's not too late to help some of these folks out!

Boilerplate: Lots of law comes out of state legislatures, plenty of it bad. These elections don't get much attention, doubly so for special elections. Because of the small scope, a small amount of your money or time could help elect these folks! Please pitch in, if you can!
====

January 2 - South Carolina House 56 - [none]

HD-56 is currently an R seat (incumbent resigned for reasons unclear); R ran unopposed in 2016, 2014, and 2012. District went for Trump 64-32 and Romney 56-41. The Rs control the SC House by about 35 seats.

=> Can't win if we don't run, bleh.

====

January 9 - Georgia Senate 17 - Phyllis Hatcher

SD-17 is currently an R seat (incumbent resigned to run for lt gov); R won 60-40 in 2016, was unopposed in 2014, won 63-37 in 2012. District went for Trump 57-41 (redistricted so no comparable 2012 numbers). The Rs control the GA Senate by about 20 seats.

=> A stretch, obviously, but Ds have been doing fairly well in GA specials, and the R is considered kind of an underperformer.

====

January 9 - Georgia House 111 - El-Mahdi Holly

HD-111 is currently an R seat (incumbent resigned to run for the SD-17 seat); R won 52-48 in 2016, 53-47 in 2014, and 53-47 in 2012. District went for Clinton 50-47. The Rs control the GA House by about 40 seats.

=> Great opportunity for a flip here.

====

January 16 - South Carolina House 99 - Cindy Boatwright

HD-99 is currently an R seat (incumbent was removed for ethics violations); R was unopposed in 2016, 2014, and 2012. The district went for Trump 58-35 and Romney 66-32.

=> Pretty safe R seat, but at least someone ran.

====

January 16 - South Carolina House 28 - [none]

HD-28 is currently an R seat (incumbent resigned to take a job at a college); R won unopposed in 2016, 2014, and 2012. District went for Trump 63-32 and Romney 64-34.

=> Grrr.

====

January 23 - Pennsylvania House 35 - Austin Davis

HD-23 is currently a D seat (incumbent resigned after being caught in an illegal gambling ring); D won 63-37 in 2016, 71-29 in 2014, and was unopposed in 2012. The district was won by Clinton 58-39 and by Obama 64-35. The Rs control the PA House by about 40 seats.

=> Corruption is always a bad sign, but this looks like a pretty safe seat.

There are also three Wisconsin seats up Jan 16th; I'll put them up in part 2, once they hold the primary (Dec 19).
posted by Chrysostom at 8:59 PM on December 10, 2017 [34 favorites]


And more from Trump accusers tomorrow.

@CBSNews: NEW: Women who have publicly accused President Trump of sexual harassment and assault will speak at a news conference, hosted by @bravenewfilms, Monday at 10:30 a.m. ET. The women are calling for an investigation by Congress of sexual misconduct by the president.
Women Share Firsthand Accounts of Sexual Misconduct by President Trump

New York City - Women who have publicly accused President Trump of sexual harassment and assault will unite for the first time to speak out about their experiences on Monday, December 11 at 10:30 AM. At the press conference. hosted by Brave New Films, the women will call for accountability and an
investigation by Congress of sexual misconduct by the president.

The women will share their firsthand accounts of President Trump groping, fondling, forcibly kissing, humiliating and harassing women. They are among the
at least sixteen women who have come forward to accuse the president of sexual misconduct. Their disturbing allegations came to light before the post-
Weinstein era of accountability for sexual misconduct and the rise of the #MeToo movement.

In November, Brave New Films released "16 Women and Donald Trump," which tells the stories of the sixteen women who have publicly reported sexual
harassment and assault by President Trump. These brave women have all spoken out individually. The video, which has been viewed over six million times.
compiled their stories in one place for the first time. Now they are gathering in person to speak out and call for accountability.
posted by chris24 at 9:18 PM on December 10, 2017 [75 favorites]


These women coming forward are so awesome. It should have been the thing that kept him from ever getting elected, the thing that was out in the light, on video, a known moral failing. Add to it all the Russian stuff, which never seems to end. Now he has another front to fight, one he has added his voice to via Franken. Fucking take him down on it now that it is in the forefront as it should have been for ages. Fuck Russia. Take him down for being a sexist asshole of the ages.
posted by perhapses at 9:27 PM on December 10, 2017 [61 favorites]


Why I Can No Longer Call Myself an Evangelical Republican by Peter Wehner.

A bit hard to get into at first, because he truly is speaking to other evangelicals, and some of the "taken for granted" stuff in that world is really hard to just take for granted.

But eventually ...

Assume you were a person of the left and an atheist, and you decided to create a couple of people in a laboratory to discredit the Republican Party and white evangelical Christianity. You could hardly choose two more perfect men than Donald Trump and Roy Moore.

Both have been credibly accused of being sexual predators, sometimes admitting to bizarre behavior in their own words. Both have spun wild conspiracy theories, including the lie that Barack Obama was not born in America. Both have slandered the United States and lavished praise on Vladimir Putin, with Mr. Moore declaring that America today could be considered “the focus of evil in the modern world” and stating, in response to Mr. Putin’s anti-gay measures in Russia: “Well, maybe Putin is right. Maybe he’s more akin to me than I know.” Both have been involved with shady business dealings. Both have intentionally divided America along racial and religious lines. Both relish appealing to people’s worst instincts. Both create bitterness and acrimony in a nation desperately in need of grace and a healing touch.
posted by philip-random at 10:23 PM on December 10, 2017 [32 favorites]


Rep. Schiff: Evidence Against Trump Campaign in Russia Probe Is “Pretty Damning”
Rep. Adam Schiff made the statement after CNN’s Jake Tapper said that while there are several pieces to the story, “we haven’t seen an actual proof of cooperation and collusion.” That is when Schiff said that the key was “to look at the pattern and the chronology.”

When you analyze all the isolated incidents, there seems to be a pattern, Schiff said. “The Russians offered help. The campaign accepted help. The Russians gave help. And the president made full use of that help,” the California Democrat said. “And that’s pretty damning, whether it is proof beyond a reasonable doubt of conspiracy or not.” But for now there are a lot of incidents that “you would have to believe … were all isolated,” which “doesn’t make rational sense.”
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:55 PM on December 10, 2017 [48 favorites]


Thinking for myself, I wish there were a system where I could direct my tax dollars in a representative fashion - say, to the benefit of people living in my region. But whom besides billionaires and white evangelicals get representation for their taxes these days?
posted by SakuraK at 1:14 AM on December 11 [2 favorites −] [!]

One of my pet when-I-win-the-lottery ideas is to set up a Super-PAC that will 'fix' gerrymandering, 'fix' voting rights and re-instate/strengthen the NEA. Because I think all that's standing between We the People and these kinds of changes is a reasonable attainable sum of money intelligently applied. (Telling, I guess, is that I hinge this change on winning the lottery. I don't even 'play' the lottery.)
posted by From Bklyn at 2:15 AM on December 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


Rep. Adam Schiff made the statement after CNN’s Jake Tapper said that while there are several pieces to the story, “we haven’t seen an actual proof of cooperation and collusion.” That is when Schiff said that the key was “to look at the pattern and the chronology.”

At this point, looking for "actual proof of cooperation and collusion" is like creationists looking for intermediate forms in the fossil record. If we had footage of Trump taking money from a Russian agent in Room A and then signing a pro-Russia executive order in Room B three minutes later, the Republicans would demand proof that Trump had walked from Room A to Room B and insist that anything could have happened in those three minutes.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:40 AM on December 11, 2017 [58 favorites]


I just looked at google news, and a story from Breitbart is listed as one of the top stories. I used the feedback button to complain about this. Does anyone know if there are groups working on getting them excluded from google news?

I've noticed in just the last 2 weeks that I have been getting lots of right wing garbage sites in Google Now. This is even though I have been pretty much avoiding reading a lot of Trump news because winter is here and I need to work harder at protecting my happy.
posted by srboisvert at 3:44 AM on December 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


How a cadre of pro-Trump FBI agents and intel officers—some active, some retired—conspired to swing the election to Trump. (tweet storm)
posted by jeffburdges at 4:36 AM on December 11, 2017


Needs Seth Abramson warning.
posted by neroli at 4:51 AM on December 11, 2017 [45 favorites]


On the Trump harassment front, Nikki Haley broke from the admin's "they all lying liars who lie" party line yesterday on Face the Nation.
JOHN DICKERSON: Let me ask you about a domestic issue here. There's a cultural shift going on in America right now. You saw it, three members of Congress kicked out of Congress because of sexual behavior, misdeeds. You were the first woman Senator of South Carolina. What do you think of this cultural moment that's happening?

NIKKI HALEY: You know, I am incredibly proud of the women who have come forward. I'm proud of their strength. I'm proud of their courage. And I think that the idea that this is happening, I think it will start to bring a conscience to the situation, not just in politics, but in, you know, we've seen in Hollywood and in every industry. And I think the time has come.

JOHN DICKERSON: Of course I'm wrong, you were the governor, first governor of South Carolina. Given that consciousness, how do you think people should assess the accusers of the president?

NIKKI HALEY: Well, I mean, you know, the same thing, is women who accuse anyone should be heard. They should be heard and they should be dealt with. And I think we heard from them prior to the election. And I think any woman who has felt violated or felt mistreated in any way, they have every right to speak up.

JOHN DICKERSON: And does the election mean that's a settled issue?

NIKKI HALEY: You know, that's for the people to decide. I know that he was elected. But, you know, women should always feel comfortable coming forward. And we should all be willing to listen to them.
posted by chris24 at 5:32 AM on December 11, 2017 [9 favorites]


How a cadre of pro-Trump FBI agents and intel officers—some active, some retired—conspired to swing the election to Trump. (tweet storm)
posted by jeffburdges at 4:36 AM on December 11 [+] [!]


Needs Seth Abramson warning.
posted by neroli at 4:51 AM on December 11 [2 favorites +] [!]

To be fair, it does seem to be basically what happened, also as unraveled and discussed here on the Blue. It will make a great political thriller one day, when we manage to get to the other side.
posted by mumimor at 5:34 AM on December 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


Since the original Roy Moore thread has closed, items from the past several days: in a series of 2011 interviews Moore said that every Constitutional amendment after the 10th should be abolished, discussed Obama's birth certificate, and indicated he'd be open to new Congressional hearings about 9/11.

In a recent focus group assembled and filmed by Republican strategist Frank Luntz and Vice News, even Luntz seemed a bit shocked by the degree of misogyny displayed against Moore's accusers.
posted by XMLicious at 5:35 AM on December 11, 2017 [18 favorites]


Susan Collins and the Duping of Centrists
So in exchange for her vote, Collins received, at best, a cosmetic fix that she will have to pretend is something more.

What was her mistake? It was both tactical and strategic.

The tactical error was to fritter her moment of leverage, when the Senate bill’s fate was uncertain and she had the potential to influence other swing senators. Instead of demanding something real, she accepted vague promises.
...
Her strategic error is the one that holds lessons for other would-be centrists. Namely, she defined the political center in relative terms rather than substantive terms. Republican leaders — not just Trump, but McConnell and Ryan too — have moved sharply to the right. They are rushing through a bill without the normal procedures. They are making verifiably false claims about it. And they have decided that taking health insurance away from Americans is a core Republican principle.

Collins made the mistake of chasing after an impossible deal. She wanted to position herself between the two political parties, and she wanted to protect Medicare and Medicaid. When it proved impossible to do both, she claimed otherwise — and put a higher priority on politics than policy.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:44 AM on December 11, 2017 [15 favorites]


Mod note: A few deleted; people can check their regular news sources for the developing story on the Port Authority bus station explosion, but since this isn't an all-purpose general news thread (and we know very little right now anyway), let's skip it here unless/until it becomes specifically pertinent to Trump/WH topic.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:46 AM on December 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


Moore said that every Constitutional amendment after the 10th should be abolished

And just to be clear, the 13th amendment says:
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:46 AM on December 11, 2017 [43 favorites]


in a series of 2011 interviews Moore said that every Constitutional amendment after the 10th should be abolished

You know the ones, freed the slaves (13th), ensured all races could vote (15th), gave women the vote (19th).


discussed Obama's birth certificate

Said "You know Hitler once said "you tell a big enough lie long enough, people will believe it." So a side order of comparing Obama to Hitler with the birtherism. And of course it was Goebbels, not Hitler.


indicated he'd be open to new Congressional hearings about 9/11.

Because he thinks it was an inside job and also that it was God's punishment for America's sins, i.e. the gays.
posted by chris24 at 5:46 AM on December 11, 2017 [12 favorites]


Julia Ioffe has yet another incredibly important article on the hows and whys of Russian Hacking:
The Myth of Vladimir Putin the Puppet Master
posted by readery at 5:49 AM on December 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


Well, one good thing. While reading The Year of Trump I read the "how's next year going to look" fiction section and was absolutely delighted with "Operation Covfefe."
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:52 AM on December 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


And today in "Headlines we would have dismissed as lame jokes twenty years ago:"
Dennis Rodman asks President Trump for formal role as North Korean envoy

Subhead: "Rodman may save planet from nuclear armageddon" [fake, but actually accurate]
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 5:52 AM on December 11, 2017 [18 favorites]


I really wish that latest tweetstorm of Abramson's was poorly sourced speculation, but if the documents he refers to exist, that's a strong confirmation regarding what many have already figured out.

The risk, of course, is that there is an element of disinformation somewhere waiting to discredit the story if not found.
posted by wierdo at 6:37 AM on December 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump
19 minutes ago
Another false story, this time in the Failing @nytimes, that I watch 4-8 hours of television a day - Wrong! Also, I seldom, if ever, watch CNN or MSNBC, both of which I consider Fake News. I never watch Don Lemon, who I once called the “dumbest man on television!” Bad Reporting.
Good to see Donny Two Scoops focused on the important things right now.
posted by Talez at 6:38 AM on December 11, 2017 [41 favorites]


to be fair, hatewatching is much more about the hate than the watching
posted by murphy slaw at 6:45 AM on December 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


That's right, focus your particular heated ire upon a PoC journalist, that'll assuage all doubts regarding your being a racist demented maniac.
posted by angrycat at 6:46 AM on December 11, 2017 [17 favorites]


National Treasure Charles M. Blow in the NYT with a scathing indictment of Trumpism and the Pedophile Party: Rise of the Roypublicans
When supposedly religious conservatives were able to look past Trump’s bullying, his clear lack of religious conviction, his appearance in pornos, his lying, his provocations to violence, his adultery, his three marriages and his professed — taped — propensity for sexual assault, they became blind to bawdiness. That was when the hands that toted the Bibles stopped toeing its line.

Now, unmoored from any fundamental morality, Republicans have a situation where a professed horndog is boosting an accused pied piper.

Republicans have surrendered the moral high ground they thought they held, and have dived face-first into the sewer.

The Trump agenda is the Republican agenda: hostility to women and minorities, white supremacy and white nationalism, xenophobia, protectionist trade policies, tax policies that punish the poor and working class and people living in blue states. [...]

The same thing is happening with Roy Moore. These Republicans are willing to sacrifice Moore’s then-teenage accusers, because they believe in his fundamentalist zealotry.

That is a defining feature of these modern Republicans: contorted moral rationalization
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 6:48 AM on December 11, 2017 [41 favorites]


Good to see Donny Two Scoops focused on the important things right now.

Tweets about NYT = 1
Tweets about the terrorist attack that just happened in NYC = 0
posted by Room 641-A at 6:49 AM on December 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


I think you'll find New Yorkers would be perfectly happy to have him sit this one out
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:53 AM on December 11, 2017 [58 favorites]


On the Trump harassment front, Nikki Haley broke from the admin's "they all lying liars who lie" party line yesterday on Face the Nation.

Nikki Haley is not stupid. She is trying to preserve what could be a bright political future for herself.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:55 AM on December 11, 2017 [14 favorites]


Julia Ioffe has yet another incredibly important article on the hows and whys of Russian Hacking:
The Myth of Vladimir Putin the Puppet Master

Ioffe has been on this point for a while. Russia is a mess; it's always been a mess. Corruption breeds incompetence. Nobody in the Russian government knows what anyone else is doing in Russian government. Putin is a thug with a really bad hand who bet big and got lucky, not some geopolitical mastermind. He's Bannon with a balalaika.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:59 AM on December 11, 2017 [16 favorites]


Susan Collins and the Duping of Centrists

That's a great article. Not only because it's well-written, but because you KNOW that Collins is going to see it and resent being accurately described as a gullible chump.

Hopefully she's familiar with the adage, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
posted by leotrotsky at 7:04 AM on December 11, 2017 [11 favorites]


I remain unconvinced that there's a great deal of daylight between what the majority of Republicans want and what "Roypublicans" want.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:07 AM on December 11, 2017 [16 favorites]


Tweets about the terrorist attack that just happened in NYC = 0

In a way I'm kind of relieved. I mean, if we had a real president we'd get something along the lines of "As a nation, we are grateful that nobody was killed in today's explosion. We should look to the kindness of the people who helped the injured, the bravery and stoic calmness that New Yorkers are able to demonstrate this morning, and the quick response displayed by the NYPD in apprehending the suspect."

Instead once Two Scoops has his coffee I'm sure he'll be at it with the "MUSLIMS COMING IN FROM BANGLADESH NOW! NEED TO EXPAND TRAVEL BAN! BUILD WALL ASAP! DEMOCRATS NEED TO STOP ALLOWING TERROR ATTACKS! #MAGA"
posted by Talez at 7:12 AM on December 11, 2017 [11 favorites]


The Chard Cheat: I remain unconvinced that there's a great deal of daylight between what the majority of Republicans want and what "Roypublicans" want.

But it's a wedge, right?

If there's some way to convince evangelical Christians that they've sacrificed their eternal souls in the name of corporate interests (or, hell, call it "the altar of Mammon" if you want to speak their tongue), then you've just murdered the Republican party.

That's useful information. It's difficult to act upon, but it's useful.
posted by ragtag at 7:16 AM on December 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


Re all the different reactions to Franken’s resignation, a reminder that WaPo (and probably others) are working on a bombshell story, apparently naming 30+ people (men, I assume) in DC.

Instead of arguing (anywhere) about if and/or when Franken should have resigned we should probably try to figure out what we should do if a whole bunch of other names comes down at once. Like, soon.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:20 AM on December 11, 2017 [43 favorites]


Instead of arguing (anywhere) about if and/or when Franken should have resigned we should probably try to figure out what we should do if a whole bunch of other names comes down at once. Like, soon.

Yeah, there's safety in numbers.

It'd be better if the papers reported them one at a time. Like if they ran a thirty part weekly story.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:22 AM on December 11, 2017 [12 favorites]


If there's some way to convince evangelical Christians that they've sacrificed their eternal souls in the name of corporate interests (or, hell, call it "the altar of Mammon" if you want to speak their tongue), then you've just murdered the Republican party.

About nine years ago there was a prayer service where a group of evangelical Christians tried to stave off the recession by laying hands on the bull statue down on Wall Street and praying.

If no one caught the irony of praying to a Golden Calf, then I don't think they'll be convinced of their mistake.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:27 AM on December 11, 2017 [157 favorites]


Nebraska RNC Official Joyce Simmons Resigns Over Roy Moore

It'd be better if the papers reported them one at a time. Like if they ran a thirty part weekly story.

My concern is that the Ds finding the perfect solution for the Franken situation today will not apply if you have 10 people named at a time. At this point the Franken situation has played out; if there are large numbers the debate will get bogged down in process and every day will be like the drip drip of Cornyn or Franken. I want leadership to be prepared with a number of plans, ready to address anything big that comes up quickly and cleanly. WaPo is going to drop a bomb, and we will suffer casualties. How will we deal with it?
posted by Room 641-A at 7:35 AM on December 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


soren_lorensen: My son attended a Catholic preschool last year. The same facility also had an adult daycare, senior center and Meals-on-Wheels kitchen, and the check-in kiosk for the seniors usually has a few local event typed flyers taped around. Before the election, there was one noting that TRUMP was the ONLY PRO-LIFE CANDIDATE! YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO, CATHOLICS!. About 5 months after the election there was one admonishing seniors to OPPOSE TRUMP'S EVIL AWFUL SENIOR-KILLING BUDGET (remember that whole thing with noted ghoul Mick Mulvaney wanting to eliminate funding for Meals-on-Wheels?)

The irony just about knocked me over where I stood.

The problem with being a single-issue voter is that there are more issues that you actually care about, and whoops, you might be voting against your own interests. (Also, by being a single-issue voter, you might be putting up blinders to other ways to get your desired outcome, but I digress.)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:36 AM on December 11, 2017 [12 favorites]


Ray Walston It is, literally, a death cult

More of an "escaping death" cult, and I don't think that's hair splitting.

There is a movement within Christianity which is very much in favor of the end of the world, it's a movement that has existed since the founding of the religion and it's always been both a bit fringe and bigger than you might expect.

One common theme among the people who are looking forward to the end of the world is a deep fear of death. Their religion teaches them that after death they'll eventually go to heaven, but it also teaches that if the world ends while you're still alive you don't have to die to get into heaven, and they'd much rather take that option.

There's also a common thread of them being extremely unhappy with their lives. Over at Rapture Ready there's often discussion threads about how bad things are for them. They don't like their bodies, they're in ill health, they're elderly, they're poor. They actively look forward to the end of the world because they believe they will ascend bodily to heaven where God will transform their bodies into a cross between a superhero and a supermodel, they'll be thin, attractive, in perfect health, and young forever and (again this is important) they won't have to die first. And of course, in heaven they'll live a life of leisure instead of having to toil at boring, hard, and unpleasant jobs.

I'd argue that they aren't motivated so much by a hatred for others, or a desire to see other people die, as a sort of myopia about what the end of the world entails. Sure, for some people they don't know a long way away it might be bad, but mostly they don't focus on that part. To them Israel isn't a real place, it's a sort of Bible theme park. It isn't that they dislike the people there, they mostly just don't think about them at all.

It shows how far we have to go, socially and technologically, that for a sizable minority of us the end of the world is their best hope for a better life.
posted by sotonohito at 7:43 AM on December 11, 2017 [61 favorites]


I'll also Nth the people who say that every single Democratic elected official should end every single speech with a call for Trump to resign due to the credible accusations of sexual harassment and assault from multiple women, as well as his own personal bragging about committing sexual assault and getting away with it because he was a star, and his own personal bragging about buying beauty pageants so he could peep in on underage girls changing.

We need to make calls for Trump to resign over his history of sexual abuse the Democratic version of Carthago delenda est.
posted by sotonohito at 7:47 AM on December 11, 2017 [51 favorites]


I would be extremely delighted if Dennis Rodman saved us all.
I would also be extremely delighted if it was in fact sexual harassment and assault that took down 45 (though I do want him to do time for all the other shit he's done).

I dare not hope to be so delighted, but I do feel a small spark of glee that it's even remotely possible.

In these dark times, even a small spark helps me get through the day.
posted by emjaybee at 7:49 AM on December 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


Ioffe has been on this point for a while. Russia is a mess; it's always been a mess. Corruption breeds incompetence. Nobody in the Russian government knows what anyone else is doing in Russian government. Putin is a thug with a really bad hand who bet big and got lucky, not some geopolitical mastermind. He's Bannon with a balalaika.

As it has been far too clearly demonstrated through the last couple of years, you don't have to be smart in order to grab power in this world. Trump isn't smart. The British Tories aren't smart. But these stupid and ignorant people's capacity for wrecking entire nations are immense. I don't think one has to imagine Putin as a Bond movie mastermind in order to imagine that he and the Trumpists deliberately attempted to break US democracy and succeeded in that.

This has been long underway, in my opinion both the current state of Russia and those of the US and UK are rooted in the ideologies of Reagan and Thatcher, breaking down education and enforcing extreme economic policies, so many people today have forgotten what society can be, what solidarity is and why the rule of law and strong institutions are important. But maybe that's just my age showing, maybe it goes further back.
posted by mumimor at 7:50 AM on December 11, 2017 [34 favorites]


If you were curious how this turned out - you *cannot* hold both positions. I'd already returned my stuff for Tax Collector, so I guess that's that. Maybe I'll go for Judge of Elections next time.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:10 AM on December 11, 2017 [75 favorites]


Next time, see if you can write in the position as well. Try for Leader (Possibly) of the Civilizing Forces.
posted by delfin at 8:13 AM on December 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


rooted in the ideologies of Reagan and Thatcher, breaking down education and enforcing extreme economic policies, so many people today have forgotten what society can be, what solidarity is and why the rule of law and strong institutions are important

"there's no such thing as society" was about as out loud as the position had ever been stated, for sure, but i think there is always going to be a contingent of people who don't understand why they have to pay for someone else's ride because they've mistaken a system of chains of mutual dependence for a gas of isolated atoms where each collision takes velocity from one and gives it to another.
posted by murphy slaw at 8:18 AM on December 11, 2017 [17 favorites]


"there's no such thing as society" was about as out loud as the position had ever been stated, for sure, but i think there is always going to be a contingent of people who don't understand why they have to pay for someone else's ride because they've mistaken a system of chains of mutual dependence for a gas of isolated atoms where each collision takes velocity from one and gives it to another.

Exactly. Society wouldn't be where it is today without the mutual co-operation of massive societies. If we didn't get above 150 person villages we'd be a planet of subsistence farmers with maybe some light metalworking and pottery. It'd be hard work with famine and disease common. Society has, by and large, been the best thing to happen to humanity.
posted by Talez at 8:25 AM on December 11, 2017 [12 favorites]


"gas of isolated atoms...

Posted by Murphy Slaw"

You mean ideal ga slaw...?

I think humans may be a non-Newtonian fluid actually. All us molecules bouncing off one another until someone strikes at us, at which point we link up into a solid surface. But a slow push can get through and divide us...
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:27 AM on December 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


Even people who say "I built my business from scratch" well all the infrastructure you use is paid for by us, all the people you employ (including yourself) were educated by a publicly paid for school system so they're not drooling idiots. All of your suppliers are able to supply your products and services and your customers are able to afford your products and services because the rest of us operate within mutual rules of currency and exchange.

Without everyone else you'd be a pig farmer trying to trade pigs for chickens and not being able to find a liquid chicken market (and I don't mean soup).
posted by Talez at 8:28 AM on December 11, 2017 [49 favorites]


So tomorrow is a crapshoot. A new Fox poll has Jones up 10, new Emerson poll, Moore up 9. But considering it's Alabama, a crapshoot is the closest Dems have been since we were the racist party.

@aseitzwald
Fox News (!) has Doug Jones (!) up 10 pts (!!!) in Alabama. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/11/fox-news-poll-enthused-democrats-give-jones-lead-over-moore-in-alabama.html

Meanwhile Emerson has new poll with Roy Moore up 9 pts. https://gallery.mailchimp.com/5d83bc45f4839ff4fb96bb8b8/files/eeeb03d8-daeb-4115-9439-86787f437c03/ECP_AL_PR_12.11.pdf

NBC: Pollsters, pundits say Alabama Senate race impossible to predict

Bottom line: We're flying blind.

---

But some interesting tidbits in the Fox detail.

@sfcpoll (Scott Clement, polling director, WaPo)
Fox poll story by @danablanton_nyc notes Jones leads Moore by 30 w/voters interviewed on cell phones, group missed by landline-focused automated polls
A subtle but potentially noteworthy finding is Alabama voters who were interviewed on cellphones are +30 for Jones, while the race is roughly even among all others. The fact that traditional, high-quality probability samples, like the Fox News Poll, include both landline and cellphone numbers may be why these polls show Jones doing relatively well compared to automated or blended polls.
posted by chris24 at 8:28 AM on December 11, 2017 [27 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Another false story, this time in the Failing @nytimes, that I watch 4-8 hours of television a day - Wrong! Also, I seldom, if ever, watch CNN or MSNBC, both of which I consider Fake News. I never watch Don Lemon, who I once called the “dumbest man on television!” Bad Reporting.

@brianklaas
Retweeted Donald J. Trump
This story came out in the NYT two days ago. But Morning Joe covered it right before this tweet. So, it seems Trump angrily tweeted that he doesn’t watch TV in response to...watching TV. Just amazing.

---

I also love that he's Streisanding the negative news to millions of people who don't read the Times.
posted by chris24 at 8:32 AM on December 11, 2017 [109 favorites]


> It shows how far we have to go, socially and technologically, that for a sizable minority of us the end of the world is their best hope for a better life.

It also shows that the whole thing is a theological and political scam.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:38 AM on December 11, 2017 [9 favorites]


One interesting tidbit provided by Ioffe's story is that Putin's decision to meddle wasn't made until after TruePundit was registered. So likely used by the Russians, but not affiliated directly at the beginning with the official interference campaign.

I'm not sure I quite buy that timeline, though. I could believe that a decision was taken in April to amp up the efforts or perhaps to provide more direct support.
posted by wierdo at 8:40 AM on December 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


So, in more weird and creepy moments from the Trump administration, I received a Christmas card from the Trump White House yesterday. It is /especially/ creepy not just because I thought my opposition to him was pretty clear, but also because I moved only about a month ago, and my name isn’t on anything associated with the place yet - my husband got it in his own name.

It’s that kind of weird mix of incompetency and competency that characterizes these fuckers, honestly. Too incompetent to leave me off, but competent enough to track my move? God, I hope we’re done with these assholes soon.
posted by corb at 8:47 AM on December 11, 2017 [38 favorites]


Well don’t keep us in suspense, corb: which traditional Russian holiday greeting did they opt for?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:55 AM on December 11, 2017 [35 favorites]


Fox poll story by @danablanton_nyc notes Jones leads Moore by 30 w/voters interviewed on cell phones, group missed by landline-focused automated polls

question: how is telephone polling done nowadays? the last time i studied polling was about ten years ago and at the time, iirc, lists with cell phone numbers could not obtained. now, ten years later, i don't know anyone under 60 with a landline. how are telephone polls dealing with this shift and the possibility that a cell phone with a particular area code and prefix may not actually be located in the geographic area it was originally issued?
posted by entropicamericana at 8:59 AM on December 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


(For those of you worrying about getting your own random Christmas cards from the White House, corb at least has a legitimate connection: she was a delegate at the Republican National Convention.)
posted by Melismata at 9:00 AM on December 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


If there's some way to convince evangelical Christians that they've sacrificed their eternal souls in the name of corporate interests

Mainstream white American evangelicalism pretty much is the worship of corporate interests. It's the cultural organ of Reaganism.
posted by Rykey at 9:01 AM on December 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


corb, just cough twice into your rhododendrons and state your desired address change into them clearly; it will be updated within two weeks.
posted by delfin at 9:01 AM on December 11, 2017 [25 favorites]


Fox poll story by @danablanton_nyc notes Jones leads Moore by 30 w/voters interviewed on cell phones, group missed by landline-focused automated polls

I have to imagine (hope) that they account for the decline in landlines, and adjust numbers based on the average age of people with landlines. That's gotta be at least a little guesswork, same with likely voters.

Man, it would make me super happy to see a blowout for Jones against Moore. You think that'd send almost as strong a message as Virginia, especially if young folks turn out.

NBC: Pollsters, pundits say Alabama Senate race impossible to predict

They said the same thing about Virginia. 🤞
posted by leotrotsky at 9:06 AM on December 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


Ohhh, it finally makes sense. Trump's missed meeting with Putin left him without direct knowledge of the Russian quid pro quo, which is why he's tolerated Mueller, paraphrasing Trump, so long as he sticks to Russia. Being Trump, he gives zero shits about the people around him going to prison so long as he isn't personally implicated.

Through Guiliani, he was brought into the rogue FBI butter emails scheme, and I suspect there's evidence to prove it (maybe Trump knows the guy), hence the red line. If you listen to a bit of "Thomas Paine's" speech in his telephone interviews, you'll note he uses malapropisms very common in law enforcement, which certainly doesn't prove anything, but does support his reporting, as do the emails he references in the recent tweet storm.
posted by wierdo at 9:06 AM on December 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


It shows how far we have to go, socially and technologically, that for a sizable minority of us the end of the world is their best hope for a better life.
posted by sotonohito

There's a similar line of thought that follows apocalypse fiction and fringe politics- how the ETOW is the end of alienation and hopelessness, how people are so defeated by the complexity of capitalist culture and its Death by a Thousand Dildos that burning it all down has become accepted as a precondition of personal and political growth.

Finally, life would mean something.

I definitely missed something important by applying this too glibly to the Rapture. They're superficially the same, but our modern visions of apocalypse can't offer Utopia without losing that clarifying struggle, while the Rapture is a final declaration of victory. Their struggle is right now.

That's equal parts terrifying and heartbreaking.
posted by BS Artisan at 9:07 AM on December 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


Ohhh, it finally makes sense. Trump's missed meeting with Putin left him without direct knowledge of the Russian quid pro quo, which is why he's tolerated Mueller, paraphrasing Trump, so long as he sticks to Russia. Being Trump, he gives zero shits about the people around him going to prison so long as he isn't personally implicated.

If he's banking on his underlings not flipping and all pointing the finger at him, his ego is even bigger than I thought possible.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:13 AM on December 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


Being an evangelical at all requires a level of credulity that is extremely compatible with believing that Donald Trump is God's servant and that he will be the instrument that the Lord uses to bring about the end of days. I should know, I used to be one.
posted by Optamystic at 9:19 AM on December 11, 2017 [16 favorites]


Re polling, I have a landline, because landlines work after tornadoes, and I live in tornado alley, also it comes with my internet cable bundle. But, I get polled regularly on the landline, by both sides, because I've voted in democratic and republican primaries. Not on the same year, but if the dems have locked down their candidates, and the republicans hold most state seats, I try to vote against teahadists in the republican primary. I've had the same cell number since the 90s, and I've never been polled on my mobile.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:21 AM on December 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


The thing about Trump is you're dealing with bottomless corruption and bottomless stupidity at the same time. It makes his actions difficult to sift through, because all the normal causal relationships have gone out the window.

Doubly so because he's got so many people covering for him. It's clear Republicans in Congress support him because they fear facing his voter base if they turn against him. For them, it's a survival issue... but in clinging to him for political survival, they're putting their literal survival in jeopardy. They're willing to put the power of launching nuclear strikes in the hands of the dumbest and dirtiest person ever to hold the White House because they don't want to lose their jobs.

It's all stupid, all the way down.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:21 AM on December 11, 2017 [26 favorites]


News articles posted by Chris 24 (I think I got the handle right) show a foreign mining company Canadian, containing the Russian company, Uranium One, lobbied Secretary Zinke to massacre the Bears Ears to keep their dirty mill going in Blanding Utah. I read earlier the rich deposits were right at the Bears Ears Buttes. While the administration tries to cover their reasons, and while some journalists write it is the oil industry, it is the Uranium, and at least partially a Russian franchise.
posted by Oyéah at 9:21 AM on December 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


News articles posted by Chris 24 (I think I got the handle right) show a foreign mining company Canadian, containing the Russian company, Uranium One, lobbied Secretary Zinke to massacre the Bears Ears to keep their dirty mill going in Blanding Utah. I read earlier the rich deposits were right at the Bears Ears Buttes. While the administration tries to cover their reasons, and while some journalists write it is the oil industry, it is the Uranium, and at least partially a Russian franchise.

So, can I change my mind about the Uranium One probe?
posted by leotrotsky at 9:23 AM on December 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


@kylegriffin1:
Just 32% support the GOP tax plan; 48% oppose it, per USA Today/Suffolk U.

That's the lowest level of public support for any major piece of legislation enacted in the past three decades, including Obamacare in 2009.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:30 AM on December 11, 2017 [52 favorites]


News articles posted by Chris 24 (I think I got the handle right) show a foreign mining company Canadian, containing the Russian company, Uranium One, lobbied Secretary Zinke to massacre the Bears Ears to keep their dirty mill going in Blanding Utah. I read earlier the rich deposits were right at the Bears Ears Buttes. While the administration tries to cover their reasons, and while some journalists write it is the oil industry, it is the Uranium, and at least partially a Russian franchise.

Trump's razor would indicate that this is very likely to be the case, were it to be fully investigated, as have many of the right wing attacks on Clinton.
posted by wierdo at 9:35 AM on December 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


Ohhh, it finally makes sense. Trump's missed meeting with Putin left him without direct knowledge of the Russian quid pro quo, which is why he's tolerated Mueller, paraphrasing Trump, so long as he sticks to Russia. Being Trump, he gives zero shits about the people around him going to prison so long as he isn't personally implicated.

If he's banking on his underlings not flipping and all pointing the finger at him, his ego is even bigger than I thought possible.

I guess Trump assumes that the promise of a pardon would keep his underlings loyal, and I would bet Trump doesn't understand that there are limits to his pardon powers.
posted by gladly at 9:37 AM on December 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


Question #17 from Emmerson's Alabama poll (an automated poll of landlines only):
17. Do you have a cell phone, landline, both, or neither?
Press 1 for cell phone only
Press 2 for landline only
Press 3 for both
Press 4 for neither
Uhm....
posted by nangar at 9:45 AM on December 11, 2017 [29 favorites]


A landline with no caller ID, no less!
posted by Melismata at 9:51 AM on December 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


I got a letter from the Office of Special Counsel. Alas, their investigation into my complaint about this USDA press release was closed without further action. I felt like it was a pretty clear case of a Hatch Act violation, but at least they looked into it.
posted by jedicus at 9:58 AM on December 11, 2017 [17 favorites]


Two reminders:

1. Call your members of congress. It's fast. It's easy. It makes a difference. (202) 224-3121

2. Friday is the last day to sign up for ACA health insurance for 2018. Go to healthcare.gov to pick a plan. If you have questions you can call 800-318-2596. If you'd like to find in person help, go to: connector.getcoveredamerica.org (you can also select a language preference for help at this site, so it's great for people who don't speak English).

(And a special shout out to Philly -- they've set up their 311 call center to connect people to ACA navigators.)
posted by mcduff at 9:59 AM on December 11, 2017 [12 favorites]


All those answers aren't out of the question; the poll could be talking to someone at work, at a friend/relatives or otherwise conversing on a hard line not their own.

elsietheeel: "For most of history we were capable of waiting patiently without needing propaganda to distract us."

For most of human history we got along fie without electricity; things change.
posted by Mitheral at 10:03 AM on December 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


it is the Uranium, and at least partially a Russian franchise.

But wouldn't the Department of Energy have something to say about that? Oh, wait.
posted by popcassady at 10:04 AM on December 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


“We need Roy voting for us and stopping illegal immigration and crime, rebuilding a stronger military and protecting the Second Amendment and our pro-life values,” Trump says in the call. “But if Alabama elects liberal Democrat Doug Jones, all of our progress will be stopped full.”

*All* of your progress? Seems like a very effective Democratic GOTV robocall.

> I guess Trump assumes that the promise of a pardon would keep his underlings loyal, and I would bet Trump doesn't understand that there are limits to his pardon powers.

I'd agree with both of those things, but I would also bet Trump believes that his underlings are so in awe of his greatness that they would gladly jump on a grenade to protect him.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:07 AM on December 11, 2017 [22 favorites]


Even people who say "I built my business from scratch" well all the infrastructure you use is paid for by us, all the people you employ (including yourself) were educated by a publicly paid for school system so they're not drooling idiots. All of your suppliers are able to supply your products and services and your customers are able to afford your products and services because the rest of us operate within mutual rules of currency and exchange.

Obligatory Craig T. Nelson quote: “We are a capitalistic society! Okay—I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt! They're not going to bail me out. I've been on food stamps and welfare. Did anyone help me out? No!” (alt link)
posted by XMLicious at 10:13 AM on December 11, 2017 [24 favorites]


Just follow the Uranium money, the breadcrumbs go straight to Orrin Hatch's pocket. He spent a lot of time on the Bears Ears Massacre. Not to mention the dismantling of The Grand Staircase, to create access for a state park that celebrates the crossing of one religious group, rather than wild land for Americans of every system of belief. Once a year groups will go out to Hole In the Rock and drop some wagons over, then roll along the road at the base of Comb Ridge, whch road has Native American burial sites every quarter mile or less, then celebrate their genocide in Bluff, and be on their way. The more profitable access is for a coal company, whose coal trucks will roll day and night, lights, noise, and diesel; all within two miles of Coyote Wash, whose silence save for the calls of crows, water flow, wind in cottonwoods, and frogs have previously served as the sound profile for the area. The air quality oh and lets talk about choking diesel smoke. Or maybe they will just ship the coal on barges over Lake Powell, drinking water be damned.
posted by Oyéah at 10:13 AM on December 11, 2017 [16 favorites]


Doug Jones (!) up 10 pts (!!!) in Alabama.

I'm not sure how much credence I put into polls right now - I don't know if they know how to measure "unlikely voters," especially for a special election. Finding Republicans who are gung-ho for Moore is easy; figuring out which ones will show up is harder. Same with Democrats - easy to figure out who they prefer; harder to guess how many will vote.

In hopeful news, however, Postcards to Voters did manage to send a card to every Democratic household in Alabama.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:15 AM on December 11, 2017 [40 favorites]


Just follow the Uranium money

Possibly related: President Trump signed his first legislation Tuesday, scrapping an anti-corruption measure that requires oil and mining companies to disclose their payments to foreign governments.
posted by popcassady at 10:20 AM on December 11, 2017 [47 favorites]


That Julia Ioffe "What Putin Wants" link readery posted is really good, and a compelling read with lots of dramatic, novelistic scenes that make its conclusions very tangible.

Everything which happened in 2016 and since makes more sense if you try to see it from Putin's point of view. I just want to pull quote some bits to give people the flavor...
"Both Putin and his country are aging, declining—but the insecurities of decline present their own risks to America. The United States intelligence community is unanimous in its assessment not only that Russians interfered in the U.S. election but that, in the words of former FBI Director James Comey, “they will be back.” It is a stunning escalation of hostilities for a troubled country whose elites still have only a tenuous grasp of American politics. And it is classically Putin, and classically Russian: using daring aggression to mask weakness, to avenge deep resentments, and, at all costs, to survive."
...
"It wasn’t a strategic operation,” says Andrei Soldatov, a Russian journalist with deep sources in the security services, who writes about the Kremlin’s use of cybertechnology. “Given what everyone on the inside has told me,” he says, hacking the U.S. political system “was a very emotional, tactical decision. People were very upset about the Panama Papers.”"
...
“A lot of what they’ve done was very opportunistic,” says Dmitri Alperovitch, the Russian-born co-founder of the cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike, which first discovered the Russian interference after the company was hired to investigate the hack of the Democratic National Committee servers in May 2016. “They cast a wide net without knowing in advance what the benefit might be.” The Russian hackers were very skilled, Alperovitch says, but “we shouldn’t try to make them out to be eight feet tall” and able to “elect whomever they want. They tried in Ukraine, and it didn’t work.” Nor did it work in the French elections of 2017.
...
“They do plan,” said a senior Obama-administration official. “They’re not stupid at all. But the idea that they have this all perfectly planned and that Putin is an amazing chess player—that’s not quite it. He knows where he wants to end up, he plans the first few moves, and then he figures out the rest later. People ask if he plays chess or checkers. It’s neither: He plays blackjack. He has a higher acceptance of risk. Think about it. The election interference—that was pretty risky, what he did. If Hillary Clinton had won, there would’ve been hell to pay.”
...
"Putin set out to show that there is nothing special about America, that it is just another country. Whether he is right depends in no small part on whether enough Americans—especially powerful or politically connected Americans—still believe their system is worth defending."
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:28 AM on December 11, 2017 [32 favorites]


Putin is a thug with a really bad hand who bet big and got lucky, not some geopolitical mastermind. He's Bannon with a balalaika.

Put in and Bannon are not examples of genius, so much as illustrations of major weaknesses in the way our politics, mass media and social media work. They are opportunistic infections on our body politic.
posted by happyroach at 10:36 AM on December 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


I just called my republican representative in congress (CA-45, R. Mimi Walters, agent of satan).

Me: Hi, I'm calling to voice my opinion abo--
Staffer: OK, I'll be sure to pass your opposition to the tax plan to the congresswoman.
Me: Actually, I haven't stated my opinion on the tax plan yet, but based on your assumption about my opinion I hope the representative is aware of how unpop--
Staffer: We are very busy taking calls about this subject, is there anything else?
Me: Yes, I just want you to know that I always vote, donate money, and knock on--
Staffer: Goodbye *hangs up*
Me: *helplessly, into the void* also you suck

Anyone else in CA-45? I've never met anyone who doesn't loathe her.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 10:37 AM on December 11, 2017 [86 favorites]


I certainly don't think Putin is some genius mastermind or any of that crap, but suggesting that he and Bannon have only superficial differences doesn't seem right. Putin's career is pretty complicated and he's done some legit spy stuff. Bannon to my knowledge has a career as a garbage bag full of mashed potatoes cum banker cum tabloid hatemonger. I think in any battle of wits, Putin would sadly kick the shit out of our current US evil overlords.
posted by lazaruslong at 10:42 AM on December 11, 2017 [14 favorites]


Mod note: Noting as a thread-strategy thing: we're probably ready for a new thread shortly. This one has lasted longer than normal, for which I thank y'all for making the effort to help (along with us also doing a lot of pruning to, uh, help you help us), but the comment count has gotten into that sluggish-making pushing-2000 territory which I think at this new less-crazy pace is a very reasonable threshold for getting going on a new one to take the load off the server and everyone's browsers.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:45 AM on December 11, 2017 [22 favorites]


BuddhaInABucket: That interaction a pretty good sign, to be honest. It means she's getting completely deluged by phone calls by constituents, such that her staffers are already showing signs of burnout.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:46 AM on December 11, 2017 [34 favorites]


> That interaction a pretty good sign, to be honest. It means she's getting completely deluged by phone calls by constituents, such that her staffers are already showing signs of burnout.

I agree. I was very disappointed when I called the office of Tom Reed (R-NY23) and the staffer had time to hear me out. On the other hand, approaching them as a taxpayer angry that I wasn't going to be able to deduct my state and local taxes ("Double taxation!") might have got the staffer's attention?

Anyway, for rich taxpayers, here's a fun thing to look forward to:

The Games They Will Play: Tax Games, Roadblocks, and Glitches Under the New Legislation, Avi-Yonah et al., 2017 December, SSRN.
This report describes various tax games, roadblocks, and glitches in the tax legislation currently before Congress. The complex rules proposed in the House and Senate bills will allow new tax games and planning opportunities for well-advised taxpayers, which will result in unanticipated consequences and costs. These costs may not currently be fully reflected in official estimates already showing the bills adding over $1 trillion to the deficit in the coming decade. Other proposed changes will encounter legal roadblocks that will jeopardize critical elements of the legislation. Finally, in other cases, technical glitches in the legislation may improperly and haphazardly penalize or benefit individual and corporate taxpayers. This report highlights particular areas of concern that have been identified by a number of leading tax academics, practitioners, and analysts.
Keywords: tax, legislation, tax planning, reform, loopholes
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:59 AM on December 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


Ice. Cold.

Dem lawmaker calls for extra protections to 'safeguard' Senate pages if Moore is elected (The Hill)
“It would be unconscionable for Congress to not be vigilant and proactive in taking precautions to safeguard these children given the well sourced allegations against Roy Moore,” she continues.

Roy Moore has been accused of sexual misconduct involving teenagers. Nearly 10 women have come forward with allegations that Moore pursued them romantically or sexually as teenagers, including one who said he assaulted her at age 14 when Moore was 32.

Senate pages are often in high school and can be as young as 16 years old.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:15 AM on December 11, 2017 [113 favorites]


Will there be one more Roy Moore thread, or will it be combined into the next general political thread?
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:23 AM on December 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


New Monmouth poll of AL Senate plays it cute, gives you three separate options for different turnouts:
* 2017-based turnout - tied 48/48
*high turnout - Jones +3 48/45
*lower historical turnout - Moore +4 48/44
Also, fyi - poll closing times in Alabama are 7 and 8 p.m. ET.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:27 AM on December 11, 2017 [15 favorites]


Moore, who hasn't been giving interviews lately for some reason, did release a brief one yesterday.

With a 12 year old girl.

So many layers of gross, cemented with cynicism syrup. It's a GOP baklava.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:28 AM on December 11, 2017 [27 favorites]


Tomorrow might kick off a new thread with the AL special election as the starting news. This is only (only!) a bit under 2k messages so far, but election news will probably bump it over into browser-crashing activity levels.

Trafalgar Group and Gravis have Moore leading by up to 5 pts; Fox News is trying to push panic by insisting Jones is ahead by 10.

Michael Harriot at The Root has a piece that focuse on a different aspect of the race from most of the media: Roy Moore vs. Doug Jones Has Nothing to Do With Little Girls; It’s About White Supremacy
Alabama values selected as their winner every single presidential candidate who ever ran on a platform of segregation or white supremacy. Alabama’s values sprayed water hoses at little children who marched for equality. Alabama’s values were OK with law enforcement officers organizing Klansmen to attack the Freedom Riders and literally broke John Lewis’ skull on Selma, Ala.’s Edmund Pettus Bridge.
"... they started to create new rights in 1965, and now, today, we’ve got a problem." — Roy Moore, Nov. 14, 2017
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:34 AM on December 11, 2017 [39 favorites]


Moore, who hasn't been giving interviews lately for some reason, did release a brief one yesterday.

With a 12 year old girl.

It's an astonishing combination of:
a) In your face, libruls
b) See, I can control myself, and
c) Manspreading.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:38 AM on December 11, 2017 [15 favorites]


Fox News is trying to push panic by insisting Jones is ahead by 10.

There's zero reason to think this. Fox outsources the actual polling to a bipartisan joint operation of Anderson Robbins Research (D) and Shaw & Company Research (R). 538 gives this pollster team an A, with a 0.4 Dem lean overall. The polling is not controlled by the Fox News leadership.

Polling for this race is all over for reasons we've discussed already - no one knows how to model it, and there have been a lot of low-quality pollsters putting out numbers. We don't need to invoke conspiracy.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:41 AM on December 11, 2017 [32 favorites]


Roy Moore vs. Doug Jones Has Nothing to Do With Little Girls; It’s About White Supremacy

I'm thinking that "Evangelical White Supremacy" is a distinct thing that is not necessarily a circular Venn diagram with Evangelicals nor White Supremacists, which would include the child-sexing.
posted by rhizome at 11:42 AM on December 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


Michael Harriot at The Root has a piece that focuse on a different aspect of the race from most of the media: Roy Moore vs. Doug Jones Has Nothing to Do With Little Girls; It’s About White Supremacy

It may be convenient for him to cast the situation that way, but the truth of the matter is, one of the reasons the race is closer than expected is the teenagers and young women Moore harassed and assaulted when he was in his 30's. The situation is complex. Oversimplifying it to a point where relevant issues and offenses are dismissed as irrelevant is not going to be helpful.
posted by zarq at 11:48 AM on December 11, 2017 [14 favorites]


Polling for this race is all over for reasons we've discussed already - no one knows how to model it, and there have been a lot of low-quality pollsters putting out numbers. We don't need to invoke conspiracy.

It's crazy that Alabama has been such a lock for so long that pollsters don't even know how to poll it properly.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:55 AM on December 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


Michael Harriot at The Root has a piece that focuse on a different aspect of the race from most of the media: Roy Moore vs. Doug Jones Has Nothing to Do With Little Girls; It’s About White Supremacy

I saw a quote on Facebook that said that Doug Jones also has a history with teenaged girls.

[photos of the Birmingham bomb victims]

He convicted their killers.
posted by Gelatin at 11:58 AM on December 11, 2017 [45 favorites]


It's crazy that Alabama has been such a lock for so long that pollsters don't even know how to poll it properly.

This isn't a "oh the South is so weird" thing. It is that:
-- It's a special election (so no other offices on the ballot and at a strange time of year)
-- Huge out-of-state attention, pressure and funding

This means there are no real models to rely on that tells us who is most likely to vote tomorrow.
posted by mcduff at 12:02 PM on December 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


Alabama values selected as their winner every single presidential candidate who ever ran on a platform of segregation or white supremacy.

I did a little research (Wikipedia) on George Wallace this week. The similarities with Trump were so strong that I would guess that both Donald Trump and his dad probably voted for Wallace in 1968 even though most New Yorkers didn't. These aren't new tactics. They are old tactics with new ribbons and bows.
posted by puddledork at 12:18 PM on December 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


I saw a quote on Facebook that said that Doug Jones also has a history with teenaged girls. [photos of the Birmingham bomb victims] He convicted their killers.

@OhNoSheTwitnt
To summarize: “Christians” are having trouble choosing between a man who wants to protect little girls and one who wants to molest them.
posted by chris24 at 12:40 PM on December 11, 2017 [21 favorites]


Mod note: Several comments removed, oh my god we're not gonna Finally Settle That Whole Clinton Election Matter in here.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:41 PM on December 11, 2017 [41 favorites]


I did a little research (Wikipedia) on George Wallace this week. The similarities with Trump were so strong that I would guess that both Donald Trump and his dad probably voted for Wallace in 1968 even though most New Yorkers didn't. These aren't new tactics. They are old tactics with new ribbons and bows.

That's pretty unfair to George Wallace,* to be honest. He wasn't an incompetent governor; pioneering the use of tax breaks to incentive companies to relocate to Alabama. He honorably served in the Army Air Corps during WWII in the dangerous job of flying B-29s in the Pacific. He even recanted and apologized for his views in his old age.

*high on the list of sentences I never thought I'd say
posted by leotrotsky at 12:52 PM on December 11, 2017 [14 favorites]


I did a little research (Wikipedia) on George Wallace this week. The similarities with Trump were so strong that I would guess that both Donald Trump and his dad probably voted for Wallace in 1968 even though most New Yorkers didn't. These aren't new tactics. They are old tactics with new ribbons and bows.

NPR actually asked the Trump campaign about their similarities during the primaries last year. They didn't respond.

Huffpost, from March 2016: Who Said It: Renowned Racist George Wallace Or Donald Trump? We Seriously Can’t Tell.
posted by zarq at 12:54 PM on December 11, 2017 [11 favorites]


Dang, I'm gonna add that last link to my "Either/Or Quiz" post...
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:59 PM on December 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


I don't think it's unfair to George Wallace, of all people, to point out the similarities between Trump and Wallace at the height of the latter's fame and power. It's great that he decided to get right with God before he died, and it's fine to point out his competence outside of maintaining an apartheid government, but to be competent in the service of the segregationist South is a dubious distinction.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:01 PM on December 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


what makes trump look even worse in the wallace comparision is that he's desperately low on both remaining years and self-awareness to ever recant
posted by murphy slaw at 1:06 PM on December 11, 2017 [11 favorites]


Friday is the last day to sign up for ACA health insurance for 2018.\

Unless you live in an enlightened state run by Democrats that created their own exchanges in place of healthcare.gov. Elections have consequences.

Nine of these states have extended deadlines:
Connecticut -- December 22
Rhode Island -- December 31
Colorado -- January 12
Minnesota -- January 14
Washington -- January 15
Massachusetts -- January 23
DC -- January 31
California -- January 31
New York -- January 31

In addition, if you are in certain counties that were affected by hurricanes Irma or Harvey you have until December 31. These include 7 counties in Georgia, 47 counties in Texas and the entire state of Florida.

Don't rely on these dates. Check for yourself if you think you might need to use these extensions.
posted by JackFlash at 1:10 PM on December 11, 2017 [18 favorites]


Posted here because I think it may offer insights into Trump's 2020 strategy if he isn't indicted, God help us all: Putin’s surprise withdrawal from Syria is part of his master election plan (Twitter link to avoid Ha'aretz paywall)
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:12 PM on December 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


Scott Douglas in the New York Times: The Alabama Senate Race May Have Already Been Decided
I work with poor, black Alabamians. Many of them don’t have cars or driver’s licenses and make under $10,000 a year. They cannot afford to pay someone to drive them to the motor vehicles or registrar’s office, which is often miles away.

Photo ID laws are written to make it difficult for people like them to vote. And that’s exactly what happens. A study by Zoltan Hajnal, a political scientist at the University of California, San Diego, comparing the 2012 and 2016 presidential elections, found that the voter ID law kept black voters from the polls. After Alabama implemented its strict voter ID law, turnout in its most racially diverse counties declined by almost 5 percentage points, which is even more than the drop in diverse counties in other states.
It's fun to read this piece, look above it, and see a link to an op-ed entitled "Is the Democratic Party Becoming Too Democratic?"
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:29 PM on December 11, 2017 [23 favorites]


God help us all: Putin’s surprise withdrawal from Syria is part of his master election plan

Are you saying that Putin's intention is to win the election?
posted by popcassady at 1:42 PM on December 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Nate Silver wins title of the day: What The Hell Is Happening With These Alabama Polls?
posted by Chrysostom at 1:46 PM on December 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


Trump was apparently slurring his words badly again today. They are talking about it on MSNBC now. Does anyone have video?
posted by Justinian at 1:55 PM on December 11, 2017


Two can play this game. Politico, Democrats seek alleged evidence of anti-Clinton 'bias' at the FBI
Turning the tables on Republican charges that the FBI’s Russia probe is tainted by political bias, two top House Democrats are demanding Justice Department documents they say could reveal “politically-motivated misconduct" at the bureau meant to harm Hillary Clinton’s 2016 election chances, including potential leaks to a conservative website about the Clinton email investigation.

Days before Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein is set to testify before the House judiciary committee, the two lawmakers are calling on Rosenstein and Attorney General Jeff Sessions to turn over any material showing FBI agents or officials revealing “animus” toward Clinton.

"The facts point to a coordinated effort by some in the FBI to change the course of the Clinton investigation by leaking sensitive information to the public," write Reps. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) and Elijah Cummings (D-Md.), the senior Democrats on the House's judiciary and oversight committees.
posted by zachlipton at 2:00 PM on December 11, 2017 [45 favorites]


It's this NASA speech

"Essternoss". He also sounds winded.

Mostly, it's very clear that he has no ownership of that speech which was clearly written to echo JFK's
posted by mumimor at 2:11 PM on December 11, 2017


Mostly, it's very clear that he has no ownership of that speech which was clearly written to echo JFK's

Its recycled George W. Bush material. In January 2004, W was slumping in popularity polls, and he gave a big speech promising a return to the Moon and on to Mars, beginning between 2015 and 2020.

Bush unveils vision for moon and beyond

Nothing came of it then, and nothing will likely come of this now, but it's cute how they keep going back to the hit songs when their popularity starts to fade.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 2:27 PM on December 11, 2017 [30 favorites]


In 2016 Trump was the presidential nominee of both the Republican Party and also of the American Independent Party which was originally founded to support George Wallace's 1968 presidential bid.
posted by XMLicious at 2:27 PM on December 11, 2017 [13 favorites]


He's also really fidgety during Pence's portion of the speech, and does a weird open-and-closed maw thing about once every 20 seconds. We've definitely seen it from him before, but this is exaggerated and I can't recall another specific time that it was this bad.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:28 PM on December 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


He's also really fidgety during Pence's portion of the speech, and does a weird open-and-closed maw thing about once every 20 seconds.

All of those are side effects of amphetamine use. As is "dry mouth" which is the WH explanation.

We really need to know what is going on. This isn't some dude working the counter at 7-11, it's the President of the United States. He controls the second largest nuclear arsenal on the planet (and the largest one may not be fully functional).
posted by Justinian at 2:31 PM on December 11, 2017 [37 favorites]


> e also sounds winded

That's what I've thought, too, recently. He doesn't have the lung power to get through strung-together sentences.

The dentures thing -- eh, most of the people I know of his generation have serious dental work.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:34 PM on December 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


All of those are side effects of amphetamine use. As is "dry mouth" which is the WH explanation.

And Parkinson's? Seems like any armchair diagnoses are a leap. As the neurologist linked upthread noted, there's cause for concern, but we aren't going to figure it out from afar. He needs to be evaluated.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 2:38 PM on December 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


As is "dry mouth" which is the WH explanation.

He might try a glass of water instead of a Diet Coke, once in a while. It really works!
posted by thelonius at 2:39 PM on December 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


He doesn't have the lung power to get through strung-together sentences.

I'm not sure how much is that and how much is near illiteracy - he may not be able to read more than a short phrase at a time if he has to speak it exactly, and his team must have been hammering him about "you need to read the EXACT words on the paper/prompter; nothing more; don't leave things out; definitely don't rephrase anything."

Not that I disagree with the growing side-eye at his slurring and random other problems on stage. But reading from a script is hard for him, and that's going to add to the odd emphasis and clipped phrases problems.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:47 PM on December 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


Not that I disagree with the growing side-eye at his slurring and random other problems on stage. But reading from a script is hard for him, and that's going to add to the odd emphasis and clipped phrases problems.

That and you just know he practices his speeches for approx 0.0 seconds before going live.
posted by ian1977 at 3:04 PM on December 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


Nate Silver says that any estimate of Jones' chances tomorrow of between 25% and 50% is defensible. In other words... 🤷
posted by Justinian at 3:21 PM on December 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


I keep posting tax "reform" pieces here, but it's not my fault that Republicans are so bad at basic governance. Here's Kevin Drum, Mother Jones: The Missing Treasury Analysis of the Republican Tax Plan Has Finally Been Released
It’s seven paragraphs long and contains no original analysis at all. It basically says two things:
* The analysis from the Joint Committee on Taxation is correct.
* Tax revenue will rise if we assume 2.9 percent economic growth.
Seriously. That’s it. I included the entire plan above so you could check to make sure I’m not exaggerating. There’s literally no analysis at all.
These guys can't even be bothered to put together a fig leaf as they nakedly loot the treasury.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:26 PM on December 11, 2017 [32 favorites]


Alabama values selected as their winner every single presidential candidate who ever ran on a platform of segregation or white supremacy.

tl;dr: Like most of the former Confederate states, Alabama has a rich heritage of voting for the most racist presidential candidate available. As part of the Solid South, Alabama mostly votes for Democratic candidates between 1876 and 1964.

December 1946: Democrat Harry Truman establishes the President's Committee on Civil Rights.
July 1948: Truman desegregates the armed forces and federal government.
1948: Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Georgia vote for States' Rights Democratic Party "Dixiecrat" candidate Strom Thurmond. The Dixiecrats were established after Truman won the 1948 Democratic nomination in opposition to Truman's moves towards civil rights.
1954: In Brown v. Board of Education the Supreme Court rules that school segregation is unconstitutional. Democratic Senator Harry Byrd launches a "Massive Resistance" strategy against school integration.
1952 and 1956: Alabama and most of the other former Confederate states vote for Democrat Adlai Stevenson, who loses electoral vote landslides to Eisenhower.
March 1956: 99 Southern Democrats and two Republicans from Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia sign the Southern Manifesto: "The unwarranted decision of the Supreme Court in the public school cases is now bearing the fruit always produced when men substitute naked power for established law."
1957: Eisenhower signs the Civil Rights Act of 1957 after Strum Thurmond's longest one-person filibuster in history (24 hours and 18 minutes).
May 1957: Eisenhower signs the Civil Rights Act of 1960.
November 1960: Alabama and Mississippi vote for Harry Byrd and Strom Thurmond, who aren't actually candidates.
January 1963: In his inaugural address Alabama Governor George Wallace says, "In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever."
June 1963: Governor Wallace blocks the door of an auditorium at the University of Alabama to try to prevent two black students from registering.
July 1964: LBJ signs the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and tells aide Bill Moyers "I think we just delivered the South to the Republican party for a long time to come."
September 1964: Like many Dixiecrats, Strom Thurmond switches to the Republican party.
1964: Alabama, Arizona, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina vote for Republican Barry Goldwater; LBJ wins in the biggest popular and electoral vote landslide ever.
March 1965: LBJ calls for a new civil rights act in his "We Shall Overcome" speech to Congress.
July 1965: LBJ signs the Voting Rights Act of 1965
1968: Longtime Thurmond aide Harry Dent formulates the Republicans' Southern Strategy, as described by longtime Republican strategist Lee Atwater:
You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."
November 1968: Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Louisiana, and Mississippi vote for George "Segregation Now, Segregation Tomorrow, Segregation Forever" Wallace. Nixon wins in a landslide.
1972-2016: With the exception of Georgia governor Jimmy Carter in 1976, Alabama votes Republican.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:32 PM on December 11, 2017 [49 favorites]


Listening to the news on the ceeb, they were covering the Moore story, and had some good ol' boy from Alabama wondering if the accusers had 'something in their past' that they weren't proud of, or if these girls had done something to "encourage" Moore.

14 yr olds.

I've never actually thrown up at the news before, but today was my day.
posted by Capt. Renault at 3:34 PM on December 11, 2017 [35 favorites]


May 1957: Eisenhower signs the Civil Rights Act of 1960.

I gather he signed it in May of 1960 rather than availing himself of a TARDIS to do so in '57.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:41 PM on December 11, 2017 [11 favorites]


Longtime Thurmond aide Harry Dent formulates the Republicans' Southern Strategy, as described by longtime Republican strategist Lee Atwater:

I'd like to respectfully suggest that we could stand to see that quoted A LOT less around here. That word is not only a profanity, but like one of the worst profanities. Reading it is like getting slapped, and I'm not even in a group that's directly threatened by racist speech like that. I'm reading this on public transit and I felt like I had to hurry and hide my phone when I scrolled to that comment, and I really hesitated to scroll back up and find it to quote it. I don't like being embarrassed to read MeFi.

All to support the proposition that a substantial majority of the Republican platform since the Civil Rights Act (if not earlier) has been based on sublimated racism, which I submit has been amply established at this point. Could we please consider whether we really need to make people read that in order to support our arguments?
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 5:00 PM on December 11, 2017 [37 favorites]


Hahahaha.
White House aides have warily watched the movement sweep Capitol Hill, opting to repeat rote denials about allegations against the president. The president’s advisers were stunned Sunday when one of the highest-ranking women in the Trump administration broke with the White House line and said the accusers’ voices “should be heard.”

“They should be heard, and they should be dealt with,” Nikki Haley, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, said in a CBS interview. “And I think we heard from them before the election. And I think any woman who has felt violated or felt mistreated in any way, they have every right to speak up.”

Haley’s comments infuriated the president, according to two people who are familiar with his views but who spoke on condition of anonymity because they aren’t authorized to speak publicly about private conversations. Trump has grown increasingly angry in recent days that the accusations against him have resurfaced, telling associates that the charges are false and drawing parallels to the accusations facing Republican Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore.
posted by chris24 at 5:10 PM on December 11, 2017 [51 favorites]


Alex Burns (NYT): It took an extraordinarily unsuccessful series of choices, by Republican leaders, to make the Alabama race competitive even *before* the Moore scandal. Let’s review them in choose-your-adventure form.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:18 PM on December 11, 2017 [11 favorites]


drawing parallels to the accusations facing Republican Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore.
Please compare yourself to Roy Moore.
posted by chrchr at 5:20 PM on December 11, 2017 [51 favorites]


That AP story also says that Huckabee-Sanders promised a list of eyewitnesses who would disprove the charges against Trump. Which, what? If such a list existed, they would have been trotted out over a year ago.

Only 19 of the women Trump has assaulted have come forth. How many more are out there?

And is the White House still going to claim they're all too ugly to assault?
posted by suelac at 5:22 PM on December 11, 2017 [20 favorites]


An anti-Moore Republican takes the logical step of endorsing the only person who can beat him. (After being NeverTrump but not endorsing Clinton.)

Baker Backing Democrat Jones In Alabama Senate Race
Gov. Charlie Baker supports the Democrat running for U.S. Senate in Alabama against Roy Moore, the controversial Republican who has been dogged by multiple accounts that he made sexual advances towards teenage women well into his adult years.

The Republican governor reiterated his belief Monday that Moore is unfit for the office and noted that Doug Jones, a Democrat, is the only alternative on the ballot in Tuesday's contest.

"I certainly don't want to see Roy Moore win. That means, obviously, that I would be supporting the alternative," said Baker, when asked if he supports Jones. Baker blanked his presidential ballot last year after expressing reservations with both candidates Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.
posted by chris24 at 5:51 PM on December 11, 2017 [19 favorites]


Baker is one of the last of the Rockefeller Republicans. If he supported Moore we'd toss him out on his ass next year.
posted by Talez at 5:59 PM on December 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


The thing that made me cringe in tonight's news was Huckabee-Sanders saying "The American people knew about these accusations when they elected the President" as though that is somehow, in and of itself, an -exonerating factor-.

Like "the people have spoken! These aren't crimes now!"
posted by Archelaus at 6:01 PM on December 11, 2017 [35 favorites]


This whole thread highlighting the crazy shit ("it's a high tech lynching") being said by the speakers at tonight's Moore rally is insane and a must read, but this last one is gold Jerry, gold. The rare "I have black friends" and "I can't be anti-semitic, I have a Jewish lawyer" combo.

@briantashman
Kayla Moore: "The Fake News would have you believe that he does not support the black community," but "we have many friends who are black."

"The Fake News would have you believe that he doesn't support the Jews," but "one of our attorneys is a Jew."
posted by chris24 at 6:05 PM on December 11, 2017 [30 favorites]


I'm sorry but to believe the Moores aren't anti-Semitic I'd have to know their accountant is Jewish as well.
posted by Talez at 6:08 PM on December 11, 2017 [38 favorites]


Putin and Bannon are not examples of genius, so much as illustrations of major weaknesses in the way our politics, mass media and social media work. They are opportunistic infections on our body politic.

And as evidence... I especially love populist Bannon going after the coastal liberal elite and DC swamp by bragging about getting into an Ivy and an elite DC school, instead of the beloved state school.

@jonallendc
In Midland City, Alabama, Steve Bannon goes after @JoeNBC, saying he got into better schools than Joe could have—Georgetown and Harvard. This might be the wrong place for that attack: Joe went to the University of Alabama.

@lyman_brian
Bannon says Trump is recutting every deal, including NAFTA. Reminder: Mexico is a major supplier for Alabama’s auto industry. #ALSEN #alpolitics
posted by chris24 at 6:22 PM on December 11, 2017 [17 favorites]


Wait, is Kayla Moore's protesting that her husband isn't anti-Semitic just apropos of nothing, or did he publicly do something to merit the accusation? You'll forgive me for not being able to keep track of all the horrible shit Roy Moore has done in his life.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 6:25 PM on December 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm sorry but to believe the Moores aren't anti-Semitic I'd have to know their accountant is Jewish as well.

A lot of people, like a tens-of-millions lot, do not understand that there's anything antisemitic about the stereotype of Jews being shrewd and great with money and think it speaks well of them to brag that they make sure to have a Jew handle their accounting, lawyering and so on. When my (ex)father-in-law heard that I was Jewish, the first thing he said was "hey, at least we know you'll be taken care of financially!" and he thought he was giving a compliment. Likewise when Trump said that "the only kind of people I want counting my money are little short guys that wear yarmulkes every day."

The fact that Trump said this as an immediate counter to his statement that he won't have black people handle his money is important. Jews inhabit an uncomfortably liminal space in the American conservative mind as a group that's nominally acceptable but not normal; and the easiest way to place them in a "useful but nonthreatening" category is to place another group indisputably below them in the hierarchy. To them, this is a favor to Jews.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:28 PM on December 11, 2017 [89 favorites]


Moore did say that George Soros' agenda isn't part of American culture and that Soros comes from another world which Alabamians don't identify with and is going to burn in hell for all eternity. Soros is generally a stand in for "Jewish globalists", so...
posted by Justinian at 6:28 PM on December 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


Wait, is Kayla Moore's protesting that her husband isn't anti-Semitic just apropos of nothing, or did he publicly do something to merit the accusation?

For a recent example:
"But Soros is certainly trying to alter the voting populous and if that's true, he's pushing an agenda. His agenda is sexual in nature. His agenda is liberal and not what Americans need. It's not our American culture. Soros comes from another world I don't identify with. I wish I could face him directly and I'd tell him the same thing that no matter how much money he's got, he's still going to the same place that people who don't recognize God and morality and accept his salvation are going. And that's not a good place."
posted by zachlipton at 6:29 PM on December 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


I couldn't take the suspense and skipped to the end of the thread to see how the Alabama election turned out, only to find it didn't hasn't happened yet!

Man, it's super-weird being caught up in a politics mega-thread.
posted by ryanrs at 6:29 PM on December 11, 2017 [29 favorites]


National Review: The Comprehensive Case against Roy Moore - There is no good reason for a faithful conservative to support this man
posted by chris24 at 6:33 PM on December 11, 2017 [18 favorites]


"But Soros is certainly trying to alter the voting populous and if that's true, he's pushing an agenda. His agenda is sexual in nature.

He's a goddamn sexual tyrannosoros.
posted by delfin at 6:42 PM on December 11, 2017 [21 favorites]


What the hell does that even mean, anyway? How does a billionaire alter the voting populace sexually? How would that even work? “I’ll give you $100 if you stay home and have sex instead of voting”? Is she repeating claims other people made, or did she come up with that craziness on her own?
posted by Autumnheart at 6:47 PM on December 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


I think that would be a reflection of Moore's mirror. (The sexual nature of an agenda.)
posted by perhapses at 6:48 PM on December 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


The slurring sounds exactly like how [close family member] sounded when he had to get a full set of dental implants. Heck, my two front teeth are crowns, and it took me a while to get used to how it felt to have them, and slightly changed how my S's sounded for a while. If I had to guess, he's had substantial dental work done (which might have something to do with drinking 12 diet cokes a day and wolfing down 9,000 calories of fast food all the time) and he's getting used to his teeth again. I don't usually refrain from insulting that orange shitclown, but I suspect that's all there is to his slurring speech.

The content however, is probably dementia and a lifetime of racism and misogyny.

Huh, I guess I didn't refrain after all.
posted by mrgoat at 6:54 PM on December 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


How does a billionaire alter the voting populace sexually?

I'm pretty sure that's an anti-gay dogwhistle. Soros is aligned with the radical homosexuals because he's a jewish liberal. Or something. It's word association, there's no real logic to it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:59 PM on December 11, 2017 [14 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** 2018 House:
-- Viable Dem candidacies (i.e., are raising real money) are way, way, way up this year.

-- Meanwhile, the number of Dem women running is way up, number of GOP women actually down.

-- Part 4 of the Vice series on key seats in 2018.
** AZ-08 special: Dates have been set for the election to replace Trent Franks. Primaries Feb 27, general Apr 24.

** PA-18 special: Politico tells us the GOP is getting antsy over this one. Who knows what that's worth, but the Dems got what seems to be the strongest candidate out there.

** Odds & ends:
-- More takes on SCOTUS taking up the Maryland gerrymandering case: Richard Pildes, LAT oped from Rick Hasen, DKE Nicholas Stephanopoulos. General concurrence is with yesterday's analysis that this is probably good news for anti-gerrymandering advocates.

-- The second of PA's three redistricting cases kicked off today - this is the one in state court. If you are confused about all of the litigation going on, this page is helpful.

-- Dems contested 89 of 150 state House races in 2016. This year, it's 133 (plus all 36 US House and 14 of 15 state Senate seats).

-- Long postmortem on the Virginia elections from the firm who did the Democrats' polling. (warning, LinkedIn).

=> Tomorrow night, polls close in Alabama in a few areas at 7 pm ET, most of the state at 8 pm ET. However, Alabama manually drives precinct totals to the county seat, meaning some county totals are going to take a long time to get reported. We likely won't hear much before 9 pm.

Also, there is one other special election tomorrow, Iowa Senate 3.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:07 PM on December 11, 2017 [30 favorites]


ryanrs: "I couldn't take the suspense and skipped to the end of the thread to see how the Alabama election turned out, only to find it didn't hasn't happened yet!"

US federal elections (and the vast majority of state and local elections) are held on Tuesdays. This is a historical artifact, and not a good thing, but still - elections are Tuesdays.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:08 PM on December 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


Some good Alabama news:
A judge directed Alabama election officials Monday afternoon to preserve all digital ballot images in Tuesday’s hotly contested U.S. Senate special election.

An order granting a preliminary injunction was filed at 1:36 p.m. Monday – less than 24 hours before voting is to begin. The order came in response to a lawsuit filed Thursday on behalf of four Alabama voters who argued that the state is required to maintain the images under state and federal law.

“All counties employing digital ballot scanners in the Dec. 12, 2017 election are hereby ordered to set their voting machines to save all processed images in order to preserve all digital ballot images,” Montgomery County Circuit Judge Roman Ashley Shaul wrote in the order.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:21 PM on December 11, 2017 [37 favorites]


Speaker at Moore event says he accidentally went with Moore to a brothel with child prostitutes

this was presented as a defense of moore's sterling character because he didn't hire any of the child prostitutes
but maybe that is not the kind of story you want to have circulating at the current moment
or maybe you do, i don't understand alabama
posted by murphy slaw at 7:23 PM on December 11, 2017 [71 favorites]


Here's the video.

She leans into that "is a jew" so fucking hard I can't believe that we're in 2017.
posted by Talez at 7:25 PM on December 11, 2017 [46 favorites]


I don't understand Moore or Trump. They admitted to indiscretions, just not any specific one. I'm not sure why they think they can get away with denying it now. If it had been a couple of years ago, sure, short memories/fickle electorate. But so soon?

The sad thing is that the people in Luntz's focus group seemed not to register those admissions. I sincerely do not understand why people won't believe what someone says about themself.
posted by wierdo at 7:28 PM on December 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Two links, presented without comment (or endorsement):

NYT, Sheryl Gay Stolberg, Texas Congressman Runs What Former Aides Call a Hostile Workplace (Rep. Blake Farenthold, naturally):
When Lauren Greene, a former communications director for Representative Blake Farenthold, sued him claiming sexual harassment, among her complaints was that he “disclosed that a female lobbyist had propositioned him for ‘a threesome.’”

Mr. Farenthold, in legal documents, said that Ms. Greene had it wrong. The woman wasn’t a lobbyist, he said.
Zephyr Teachout, op-ed, I’m Not Convinced Franken Should Quit:
I also believe in zero tolerance. And yet, a lot of women I know — myself included — were left with a sense that something went wrong last week with the effective ouster of Al Franken from the United States Senate. He resigned after a groundswell of his own Democratic colleagues called for him to step down.

Zero tolerance should go hand in hand with two other things: due process and proportionality. As citizens, we need a way to make sense of accusations that does not depend only on what we read or see in the news or on social media.

Due process means a fair, full investigation, with a chance for the accused to respond. And proportionality means that while all forms of inappropriate sexual behavior should be addressed, the response should be based on the nature of the transgressions.

Both were missing in the hasty call for Senator Franken’s resignation. Some might point out, rightly, that Congress doesn’t have good procedures for dealing with harassment accusations. In fact, the congressional process to date has gone something like this: Lift up the rug and sweep the accusations underneath. It’s delay, deny, pay hush money and avoid the consequences.
posted by zachlipton at 7:31 PM on December 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


Zero tolerance should go hand in hand with two other things: due process and proportionality.

He had the benefit of the doubt to fob it off to an ethics committee when it was just Tweeden. Once the rest of the credible allegations started coming out it was over.

We've come a long way in the past 15 years and a lot of people are going to have to come to account for some pretty shitty behavior back in the days where it might have only walked a fine line. We can't turn the clock back by turning our backs on sexual harassment and assault at this point.
posted by Talez at 7:41 PM on December 11, 2017 [15 favorites]


‘Look, I interviewed with a 12 year old and didn’t molest her’ and ‘we went to a brothel with underage girls and Roy totally passed up the chance’ are the ‘My lawyer is a Jeeeeewww’ of pedophilia denials.
posted by chris24 at 7:42 PM on December 11, 2017 [59 favorites]


Democrat or Republican, doing truly shitty things should disqualify you from the highest levels of office in the land.
posted by Talez at 7:43 PM on December 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


Kentucky Republicans call for resignation of GOP lawmaker accused of molesting girl

This guy...he's quite something.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:44 PM on December 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


May 1957: Eisenhower signs the Civil Rights Act of 1960.

I gather he signed it in May of 1960 rather than availing himself of a TARDIS to do so in '57.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:41 PM on December 11 [10 favorites +] [!]

I believe Eisenhower signed the Civil Rights Act of 1957. And in 1957.
posted by Mental Wimp at 7:51 PM on December 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


we went to a brothel with underage girls and Roy totally passed up the chance

Worse, the story boils down to "some guy took us to a brothel with underage girls and we left, but we left that guy there to do whatever he did."

Of course, Moore's military stories usually revolve around him sleeping on sandbags because he feared his own troops would roll a grenade under his bed, so I'm pretty confident this story was the best they could get for him.
posted by zachlipton at 7:57 PM on December 11, 2017 [29 favorites]


She leans into that "is a jew" so fucking hard I can't believe that we're in 2017.

It doesn't surprise me at all. We are not now, nor have we ever been in a post-anti-Semitic era.
posted by zarq at 8:01 PM on December 11, 2017 [38 favorites]


Axios, Congress probably won't renew CHIP funding this year: "Congress is unlikely to pass a multi-year funding solution for the Children's Health Insurance Program until January, according to House GOP leadership sources. But it will continue to pass temporary measures to make sure states get the funding they need until then."

Virginia will be sending out letters tomorrow to 1,114 pregnant women and parents of 68,495 children notifying them that they're getting kicked off their health insurance January 31 unless Congress funds it.

Jimmy Kimmel brought his son Billy onto the show following his second heart surgery last week to demand funding for CHIP and to ask why tax cuts for the rich are a higher priority than the lives of children.
posted by zachlipton at 8:46 PM on December 11, 2017 [46 favorites]


zachlipton: “Jimmy Kimmel brought his son Billy onto the show following his second heart surgery last week to demand funding for CHIP and to ask why tax cuts for the rich are a higher priority than the lives of children.”
Oddly enough, I was just reading about the answer to little Billy's question.

“Kochonomics: The Racist Roots of Public Choice Theory,” Bethany Moreton, Boston Review, 10 August 2017
posted by ob1quixote at 8:52 PM on December 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


Further update from SurveyMonkey, tweaking a bit further towards Jones.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:02 PM on December 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


"But Soros is certainly trying to alter the voting populous and if that's true, he's pushing an agenda. His agenda is sexual in nature. His agenda is liberal and not what Americans need. It's not our American culture. Soros comes from another world I don't identify with. I wish I could face him directly and I'd tell him the same thing that no matter how much money he's got, he's still going to the same place that people who don't recognize God and morality and accept his salvation are going. And that's not a good place."

Substitute German for American and this is literally what Nazis said.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:10 PM on December 11, 2017 [39 favorites]


we went to a brothel with underage girls and Roy totally passed up the chance

Oh my god. Reading this right after the Cat Person short story - the problem with Roy Moore is not that he has a sexual attraction to underage girls. The problem with Roy Moore is that he is the product of a creepy, purity-fetishizing culture, mixed with a whole hunk of horrible 'might makes right' sexuality, and given a stir with a cross. Of course he wasn't going to have sex with underage girls someone else had had sex with before him. The point, for Moore, is that he is the one who gets to "initiate" these girls. That's why he harassed them at the mall, and at school, and football games, rather than at dance clubs. This is no defense at all and Roy Moore is a horrible garbage human.
posted by corb at 9:15 PM on December 11, 2017 [50 favorites]


the problem with Roy Moore is not that he has a sexual attraction to underage girls

To be fair, that is also one of his problems.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:17 PM on December 11, 2017 [76 favorites]


Soros comes from another world I don't identify with.

Worth noting that there's tremendous overlap between Moore fandom (not the good Alan kind) and the Alex Jones/Infowars crowd, who are regularly and eagerly told that Soros, Hillary etc are literal, actual interdimensional demons or lizard people from Planet Nibiru. A very significant number of voters and gun-owners will not take Moore metaphorically.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:28 PM on December 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


Alabama is the U.S.of A.'s most Nazi-aligned state and has been for as long as there have been Nazis... just remember the man who was previously elected to that seat - by 20-30% margins. If Jones loses by "only 3-5%", it'll represent a massive deterioration of the Republican base, and every elected R who won by less than 10% has to feel more than a little bit doomed. If Jones actually wins, expect total panic in the party, and some serious abandonment of the Tweeter In Chief.

On the lighter side, A PRO-ROY MOORE SIGN THAT WOULD ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:29 PM on December 11, 2017 [14 favorites]


Huckabee-Sanders saying "The American people knew about these accusations when they elected the President"

... And that's why three million more of them voted for Clinton than for him.

Keep hammering them any time they mention "well, the people have spoken" - he has no mandate from the people.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:56 PM on December 11, 2017 [44 favorites]


This is no defense at all and Roy Moore is a horrible garbage human.

yeah that isn't a story, even a lying story, about being a good man. the only virtue he was praising Moore for was the virtue of the dieter in saying No to the breadbasket when it comes around the table to him. neither of them understand that non-molesters aren't tempted by kids in trouble and aren't to be congratulated for walking away.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:11 PM on December 11, 2017 [9 favorites]


Worse, the story boils down to "some guy took us to a brothel with underage girls and we left, but we left that guy there to do whatever he did."

And, as head of the local military police, he apparently never arrested the guy or reported any of the activity. Remember, this story was told to defend Roy Moore!
posted by dirigibleman at 10:51 PM on December 11, 2017 [54 favorites]


@VaughnHillyard of NBC: Father, who says he's a local peanut farmer in Wicksburg, outside Roy Moore rally talks about losing his gay daughter at age of 23 to suicide. “I was anti-gay myself. I said bad things to my daughter, which I regret.” (video)

Many of the things happening inside the rally will get more press, because they are meme-able and obviously horrible. But this video wrecks me.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:17 PM on December 11, 2017 [45 favorites]


Order to preserve voting machine ballots in Alabama election overturned by AL Supreme Court. (Twitter posting; can't currently find another source.)
posted by StrawberryPie at 11:30 PM on December 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


Ah, here's a document about that AL voting records ruling: http://www.gregpalast.com/wp-content/uploads/motion-to-stay.filed_.pdf
posted by StrawberryPie at 11:35 PM on December 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mod note: One deleted. I'm going to suggest that someone go ahead and create a new Roy Moore thread to carry us through the AL election, so that people trying to avoid triggering sexual abuse stuff can still (mostly) read the main Trump/WH politics thread.
posted by taz (staff) at 1:25 AM on December 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


Good morning! Polls just opened across the state of Alabama, which is traditionally heralded with a NEW THREAD.
posted by Rhaomi at 5:04 AM on December 12, 2017 [15 favorites]


Trump: Dems moving on from Russia to ‘false accusations’ of sexual harassment
President Trump in an early morning tweet on Tuesday said Democrats are moving on from the Russia investigation to "false accusations" of sexual harassment.

"Despite thousands of hours wasted and many millions of dollars spent, the Democrats have been unable to show any collusion with Russia - so now they are moving on to the false accusations and fabricated stories of women who I don’t know and/or have never met," he said.
He’s feeling the heat.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:06 AM on December 12, 2017 [29 favorites]


Kentucky Republicans call for resignation of GOP lawmaker accused of molesting girl

This guy...he's quite something.

The Kentucky Center for Investigative Reporting has a long piece about this guy (I may put this up as its own fpp when I have the time). He is a piece of fucking work, our own version of Roy Moore.
posted by chaoticgood at 5:15 AM on December 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


He’s feeling the heat.

And now he's going after Gillibrand for calling for him to resign. Maybe when you're accused of sexual harassment, it's best you don't say a female senator was "begging" for and willing to "do anything" for donations.

@realDonaldTrump
Lightweight Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, a total flunky for Chuck Schumer and someone who would come to my office “begging” for campaign contributions not so long ago (and would do anything for them), is now in the ring fighting against Trump. Very disloyal to Bill & Crooked-USED!
posted by chris24 at 5:19 AM on December 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


Very disloyal to Bill & Crooked-USED!

Can someone translate this for me?
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:27 AM on December 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


Sen. Gillibrand is now on record saying Bill Clinton should have resigned over his sexual misconduct. I’m guessing that’s it.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:29 AM on December 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


so now they are moving on to the false accusations and fabricated stories of women who I don’t know and/or have never met,

Trump met and knows at least one plaintiff, Summer Zervos, given the video footage from his TV show. Hey, at this rate why even depose him with the public record so clear?
posted by mikelieman at 5:29 AM on December 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Can someone translate this for me?

I think he's saying she used their friendship and influence to help her career and then betrayed them when she said Bill should've resigned recently. She used them.
posted by chris24 at 5:29 AM on December 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


I think he's saying that she is disloyal to the Clintons, and that she was used by them? I mean, it's Trump, so he's just throwing anything out in the hope that it sticks.
posted by Merus at 5:29 AM on December 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Let it not be lost on anyone that the President is essentially implying that a female Senator is a prostitute, in highly suggestive terms: “Begging” / “(would do anything for)” / USED!

Gross.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:32 AM on December 12, 2017 [45 favorites]


(I’m not suggesting consensual sex work is “gross,” of course. It’s that, as chris24 rightly notes, he’s using deeply inappropriate language considering the context. Unsurprisingly.)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:35 AM on December 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


He's referring to himself in the 3rd person and that doesn't even make the top 5 of what's fucked up about that tweet.
posted by cmfletcher at 5:44 AM on December 12, 2017 [24 favorites]


Kirsten Gillibrand... is now in the ring fighting against Trump

And just to note that my senator has been in the ring fighting hard against Trump since the beginning. No senator has voted against his nominees more, despite her reputation among some as a third way Dem.
posted by chris24 at 5:50 AM on December 12, 2017 [42 favorites]


In Marathon Man, Babe is tortured by Szell with a dentist drill, while offering up numbing clove oil as a reward for talking. Babe escapes, and keeps a vial of the clove oil to soothe the pain. But at some point, he smashes the vial and uses his pain as a reminder as he seeks revenge/justice.

Every moment Trump is not tweeting or speaking is like clove oil to me and every time he tweets or speaks he smashes that vial to the ground. This morning's tweet is like a blast of cold air on a cavity and I am energized. I cannot become more angry, I can only become more determined.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:52 AM on December 12, 2017 [41 favorites]


And just to note that my senator has been in the ring fighting hard against Trump since the beginning. No senator has voted against his nominees more, despite her reputation among some as a third way Dem.

It's because her politics dramatically changed after moving from being a rep for a ruralish upstate NY seat (Albany + middle of nowhere) to the whole state. I used to think she was a Rockefeller Republican refugee until I saw the difference in her voting record between the House and the Senate.
posted by Talez at 5:53 AM on December 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


She's explained that as representing your constituents. NY states as a whole is left of middle of nowhere upstate. And fair enough.

I think she's explicitly taking a hard line anti-Trump stance with an eye towards the 2020 nomination. Not that she doesn't honestly oppose him, but she's voted against him on some non-controversial nominees, etc., as a PR move.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:57 AM on December 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Megyn Kelly is having another Trump accuser on this morning after having three on yesterday.

@MegynTODAY
Today in a #MegynTODAY Exclusive: Melinda McGillivray, another woman accusing President Trump of sexual misconduct, will speak out for the first time on television about her accusations against Trump.
posted by chris24 at 6:04 AM on December 12, 2017 [23 favorites]


Patrick Wintour, Guardian: Trump visit to UK expected in new year, says US ambassador, presumably to open the new US embassy building.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:10 AM on December 12, 2017


so now they are moving on to the false accusations and fabricated stories of women who I don’t know and/or have never met.

@wpjenna
President Trump calls his accusers “women who I don’t know and/or have never met.” The list includes a former business partner, a contestant in one of his beauty pageants, a reporter who interviewed him and an Apprentice contestant.
WaPo: The growing list of women who have stepped forward to accuse Trump of touching them inappropriately


@blakehounshell (Politico)
This seems like a mistake by Trump. I imagine many of these women can prove they met him.
posted by chris24 at 6:15 AM on December 12, 2017 [42 favorites]


First, any way of ridding the world of Trump as POTUS would be awesome.

I thought that if it happened it would be Muller & Russia... but... if Trump gets taken down because of sexual misconduct, that would truly be something. And would send a strong message.

(of course, it won't happen, but I can dream)
posted by WaterAndPixels at 6:16 AM on December 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Mod note: One deleted. New Roy Moore thread is over here.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:16 AM on December 12, 2017


Patrick Wintour, Guardian: Trump visit to UK expected in new year, says US ambassador, presumably to open the new US embassy building.

or maybe just for a quick stop off at the ecuadorian one
posted by murphy slaw at 6:18 AM on December 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


Despite thousands of hours wasted and many millions of dollars spent, the Democrats have been unable to show any collusion with Russia

The FEDERAL Bureau of Investigation, which, by-the-by Mr. Klownwig, is non-partisan as the President is supposed to be what with presiding over ~75Million Democrats, you incompetent fuck, has found LOTS of collusion as you well know or at least the non-demented part of you well knows.

Pro-Tip, Donny: Fox & Friends lie a lot. You should have someone read to you more.

As an aside, is anyone else noticing his wig morphing into something like a "newsboy" cap? Flat on top, flaring out to the sides with a short sharp brim at the front? I think his stylist is just losing patience and glued one of his wigs onto a cap: "Here, wear this, it's fabulous."
posted by petebest at 6:19 AM on December 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


I don't know whether to be appalled or relieved that Trump hasn't tweeted about NYC.
posted by Talez at 6:37 AM on December 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


I don't know whether to be appalled or relieved that Trump hasn't tweeted about NYC.

I'm relieved. The rest of the damn country is already using my city as an excuse for their bigotry and I have had EEEEEEEEEEE-NOUGH of that from the 9/11 crap every year. I don't want any more, especially for something that was a total non-event.

I will thank the president NOT to speak for me and my fellow New Yorkers.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:48 AM on December 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


And the Politifact 2017 Lie of the Year?

Trump: Russian election interference is a 'made-up story'
posted by chris24 at 6:52 AM on December 12, 2017 [21 favorites]


oh god
A new line crossed:

Trump lawyer Jay Sekulow confirms to NBC he is calling for a special counsel to *investigate* special counsel Mueller’s team.

Citing alleged conflicts of interests, he says “New revelations require the appointment of a Special Counsel to investigate.” - NBC legal analyst @AriMelber
posted by murphy slaw at 7:01 AM on December 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


And Merriam-Webster's 2017 Word of the Year?

Feminism.
posted by chris24 at 7:05 AM on December 12, 2017 [32 favorites]


Josh Marshall at TPM has an interesting observation re: Trump’s tweet attack on Sen. Gillibrand this morning:
I wanted to add a point about Donald Trump’s pretty transparent sexualized attack on Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY). The attack speaks for itself. But there’s a less disgraceful but also revealing subtext, one which President Trump returns to again and again.

To the President, soliciting political contributions creates a bond of subservience against which any subsequent caviling about mammoth political differences is either sleazy, hypocritical or disloyal.

What it all amounts is that personal loyalty, a kind of mafia-like allegiance, is the only legitimate mode of interaction. Which is to say, in Trumpthink, only corruption has legitimacy.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:23 AM on December 12, 2017 [51 favorites]


@JuddLegum (ThinkProgress)
1. Sarah Sanders sent me the list of "eyewitnesses" that the White House says exonerates Trump. It's something. This is the list of ‘eyewitnesses’ the White House says exonerate Trump
2. It consists of three names. Two are women who have nice things to say about Trump but are not eyewitnesses and don't claim to be eyewitnesses. The other is the guy we knew about it. A British man who is a notorious liars and attention seekers.
3. The two women who are presented as eyewitnesses but were not eyewitnesses were offered to dispute the account of a third woman who says Trump walked into beauty pageant dressing rooms. You know who also says Trump did that? Donald Trump

---

Yeah, gonna say this doesn't refute nineteen accusations.
posted by chris24 at 7:34 AM on December 12, 2017 [57 favorites]


Like most of the former Confederate states, Alabama has a rich heritage of voting for the most racist presidential candidate available.

In 1860 45% of the population couldn't vote because they were slaves.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:43 AM on December 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


As someone currently slogging through grading a pile of hastily written, last-minute term papers, I’d like to think the White House was somehow more serious in how they approach their work. But that “list of exonerating witnesses” (ha) has the whiff of a desperately composed homework assignment. I’d recognize that anywhere. These clowns are always pulling this nonsense.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:43 AM on December 12, 2017 [30 favorites]


Surprise!

@stevebenen (MSNBC)
Three Senate Democratic men suggested Trump should resign, and he said nothing. When a Senate Democratic woman said the same thing, Trump attacked

MSNBC: After calling for Trump’s resignation, Gillibrand becomes a target
posted by chris24 at 7:44 AM on December 12, 2017 [47 favorites]


Mod note: One deleted; let's take Alabama/Roy Moore stuff over to the Alabama election thread.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:48 AM on December 12, 2017


Per the NYT article, that's what Pirro told Trump personally a month ago, "whipping him up" and "agitating" him, before Kelly distracted and pacified him and he got bored and left (these behaviors being due to declining capacity or personality disorders or both, your pick). Pirro plus Trump is some spooky stuff. She's the voice of the Fox News demographic, trying to get through the inner advisory circle.

Huh, it turns out that Pirro and Trump go way back, writes USA Today columnist Phil Reisman. Pirro’s lawyer-obbyist husband worked for Trump on some estate projects (he was later indicted on 66 counts of federal income-tax fraud). For his part, Trump donated to Pirro’s various (unsuccessful) election campaigns for higher office. When People magazine named Pirro one of “50 Most Beautiful People in the World”, it quoted Donald—"'When she walks into a room, heads turn,' says family chum Donald Trump." More shamelessly, Reisman writes, Trump "once held a $250-a-head Halloween party in her and Al’s honor at his Seven Springs estate in North Castle. Al came dressed as a Renaissance-era king, and Jeanine wore the flowing robes of a queen." (Can Trump simply not relate to women except the context of a beauty pageant?)

And Pirro's sole attempt to run for national office, unsuccessfully of course, was for Senate against Hilary Clinton in 2006.

@stevebenen (MSNBC)
Three Senate Democratic men suggested Trump should resign, and he said nothing. When a Senate Democratic woman said the same thing, Trump attacked

To reiterate, when Trump is feeling angry and insecure, he attacks a woman personally.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:48 AM on December 12, 2017 [28 favorites]


@TopherSpiro
Editorial out of Central Maine - not the liberal part of the state - Collins must change her vote:
Our View: Collins should drop support for tax bill: Broken promises to the Maine senator should be enough to cost Republican leaders her vote
Collins should not reward the tea-party right or President Donald Trump’s Wall Street insiders by voting for a bill that does so much for so few who don’t need it.
posted by chris24 at 7:55 AM on December 12, 2017 [32 favorites]


> Collins should not reward the tea-party right or President Donald Trump’s Wall Street insiders by voting for a bill that does so much for so few who don’t need it.

I've been saying that there's a triple-bank-shot option to defeat the tax bill: delay the vote (by government shutdown if necessary), get Doug Jones elected and seated, hold on to Corker's no vote, and you still need one more senator to break ranks. Flake? McCain? Collins is the most promising candidate.

But it's a really long shot. Far better that the conference committee itself fails to bring in a bill under 1.5 Trillion $ (just typing that out makes me sick. Over a TRILLION dollars in tax cuts for people who don't need them) - or that the rabid right wing kills it.
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:59 AM on December 12, 2017 [3 favorites]


Archelaus: The thing that made me cringe in tonight's news was Huckabee-Sanders saying "The American people knew about these accusations when they elected the President" as though that is somehow, in and of itself, an -exonerating factor-.

I feel like we've heard about this before. Oh yeah, another of Trump's greatest hits -- "The Snake!"

"You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in" -- in which we are supposed to shake our head with sorrow and shame for the foolish woman who took in the snake. So now Trump's voters are that woman? Yeah, that's not a good message.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:05 AM on December 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump lawyer Jay Sekulow confirms to NBC he is calling for a special counsel to *investigate* special counsel Mueller’s team.

Yo dawg, I heard you like special counsels so I got a special counsel to investigate your special counsel.
posted by jackbishop at 8:13 AM on December 12, 2017 [59 favorites]


So, arguably, that would be an attempt to obstruct justice by frivolously impeding Mueller's work, right? So the special counsel would end up investigating the decision to appoint a special counsel to investigate the special counsel?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:18 AM on December 12, 2017 [18 favorites]


The thing that made me cringe in tonight's news was Huckabee-Sanders saying "The American people knew about these accusations when they elected the President" as though that is somehow, in and of itself, an -exonerating factor-.

Obama was elected with the American people knowing that nutjobs questioned his citizenship. A certain reality TV star kept pressing the matter afterwards.

Obama was reelected after Benghazi and the American people knew about it.

Trump brought 3 women to a debate who had accused Bill Clinton of sexual misconduct well before he was elected and it was known in advance by the American voter.

And I'm sure Rs would've just let emails and Uranium One go if Clinton had been elected when everybody knew about these accusations.
posted by chris24 at 8:20 AM on December 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


Washington Post - The Daily 202: New DGA chair thinks Trump will be so toxic in 2018 that Dem candidates won’t need to name him
Jay Inslee, the new chairman of the Democratic Governors' Association, believes President Trump will be so toxic by next November that down-ballot Democrats will not even need to mention him by name to ride a wave of backlash.

In fact, the governor of Washington state — who previously spent eight terms in the U.S. House — is encouraging candidates across the country to stay focused as much as possible on core economic issues.
...
Inslee’s real frame of reference, though, is more 1994 than 2006. He got elected to the House in 1992 and swept out two years later as part of the blowback to Bill Clinton. (He returned to Congress in 1998 and stayed until he ran for governor in 2012.) This ’94 defeat was the defining moment of his political career, and he talks about it all the time.

“I'm not an expert in very many things. I used to know how to shoot a jump shot in the old days. But I am an expert in wave elections because I went through one in 1994,” Inslee told me. “What I learned in 1994 is: You cannot escape being shackled to a president who is being rejected by the American people in double digits. You just cannot escape it. There is no way. Lord, I tried different approaches. I know exactly what these Republicans are going through.”
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:28 AM on December 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


I do wonder if wave elections are less about turning out the vote and more about attracting more energized candidates.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:31 AM on December 12, 2017


I am personally having a very hard time with the fact that the president sent this Tweet about Kristin Gillibrand. And more trouble with the news cycle that poops out "Trump and Gillibrand battle" and "Liberals outraged!". I wish I had some pithy analysis, but I don't.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 8:33 AM on December 12, 2017 [19 favorites]


I do wonder if wave elections are less about turning out the vote and more about attracting more energized candidates.

Fingers crossed for this helping Dems build the deep bench of under-60s candidates they sorely need.
posted by Artw at 8:34 AM on December 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


Gillibrand's response was excellent:

@SenGillibrand: "You cannot silence me or the millions of women who have gotten off the sidelines to speak out about the unfitness and shame you have brought to the Oval Office."
posted by zarq at 8:35 AM on December 12, 2017 [108 favorites]


Yeah I expect to see her exploring the touristical delights of Iowa sometime soon.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:38 AM on December 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


Donald Trump Gets Own Birthday Wrong on Absentee Ballot
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:12 AM on December 12, 2017 [18 favorites]


Trump is talking, and apparently using yesterday's pipe bomber as an excuse to say awful things about immigration. Whenever anyone on the right says "chain migration" I lose a month of my life in pure rage-related stress. The party of family values, everybody.

Best,
Immigrant With Family Members Still Abroad
posted by prefpara at 9:15 AM on December 12, 2017 [40 favorites]


Sen. Gillebrand did the right thing and demanded that Franken (and all other harassers) do the right thing. I am really fucking sick of the assumption that she did this for her own political gain. When I was in high school I found out that there is this thing called "careerism" that successful women get accused of. When men do good things and work hard and are successful, that's because that's what men are supposed to do. When women do that, it's because they are "careerist" and care more about their success in their career than whatever it is women are supposed to do.

Sen. Gillebrand is a woman in the US, so she knows full well what our society does to women who stand up against sexual harassment and assault. Witness Trump calling her a whore. And now we get to watch supposed progressives join in, too, with some "careerism" allegations thrown in, just for fun.
posted by hydropsyche at 9:19 AM on December 12, 2017 [84 favorites]


Donald Trump Gets Own Birthday Wrong on Absentee Ballot
Meanwhile, Melania Trump reportedly didn’t sign her ballot envelope, Ivanka didn’t mail hers until Election Day, and Jared Kushner didn’t bother mailing his in at all.
This kind of thing is common - the rich absolutely count on the people they think are beneath them to carry out their will. They don't believe "one person, one vote" is the way things work; they think it's "I am owed the loyalty of thousands; they will vote as I direct them."

Mostly, they get away with it, with a side of voter suppression effort to make sure they stay in power. But even suppressed districts have a lot more voters than turn up at the polls; to change this administration and survive its aftermath, we need to GOTV.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:27 AM on December 12, 2017 [16 favorites]


I am really fucking sick of the assumption that she did this for her own political gain.

I think she did it because it's the right thing to do and for political gain, in the sense that she is in a position to leverage it for political gain and will likely do so. I also think that's awesome. I could think of worse 2020 Democratic nominees than an experienced woman who staunchly and publicly opposed Trump's agenda. 'Careerism' on the part of women in politics is no vice.* More women in politics, especially on the left, is a very good thing. I would love to see a lot more women career politicians.

* Not to say the term or allegation isn't (wrongly) used derogatorily by others.
posted by jedicus at 9:44 AM on December 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


Didn't mean to imply any cynicism on her part but can see how that would be imputed.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:49 AM on December 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Why is the press so reluctant to pursue these women's very credible and well-documented claims against Trump? I've seen lame rationalizations like "voters don't care." Which is absurd in the precise moment where sexual harassment gets blown open.

Now Trump has handed reporters a virtual roadmap for how to keep the story developing, by offering a series of easily shredded alibis: "I never met them," "Here are 3 counter-witnesses." C'mon, it's not that hard. Pick apart the alibis. Report one small new fact every day which keeps it in the news cycle, and press Trump and Huckabee-Sanders for responses.

It's ridiculous that we're depending on morning shows to keep this story alive, though, good for them obviously.
posted by msalt at 9:52 AM on December 12, 2017 [27 favorites]


Video of a woman who just voted for the first time. "My vote counts!" She's not crying, you're crying.
posted by prefpara at 9:58 AM on December 12, 2017 [42 favorites]


I am hoping the recent Gillibrand incident means that Democrats are slowly, finally, figuring out how to manipulate Trump to their advantage. Criticize Trump in written form, and his people will smooth it over and nothing will come of it. Get a white man to criticize Trump on TV, and Trump won't really respond, because he seems to have some kind of built-in filter against lashing out at white men. Get a person of color to criticize Trump on TV, and Trump will be enraged, but this won't really have any effect since there are vanishingly few people of color left in the GOP. But get a woman to criticize Trump on TV, and Trump will be enraged and lash out against women everywhere, doing a ton of harm to his approval.
posted by miyabo at 10:13 AM on December 12, 2017 [32 favorites]


David Crosby [via Twitter]: "Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Could Reunite — Because They Hate Trump More Than Each Other"
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:13 AM on December 12, 2017 [63 favorites]


Sen. Gillebrand did the right thing and demanded that Franken (and all other harassers) do the right thing. I am really fucking sick of the assumption that she did this for her own political gain.

As am I, and I retweeted the Senator's tweet and left her a message of support. I have to step away from twitter and not-Metafilter forums and my local Indivisible FB, as the nonstop braying about ZOMGRATFUCKING! and JUSTICE FOR AL FRANKEN! etc. etc. makes me so stabby that I'm afraid I will burst a blood vessel in my brain.

I would love to see a Gillibrand/Harris ticket in 2020 be borne to the White House on a wave of very, very, angry women.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:13 AM on December 12, 2017 [31 favorites]


I made my prediction of Gillibrand/Klobuchar a while back, and it still looks pretty good.

It's gotta be up there for most letters on a ticket, though.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:19 AM on December 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Gillibrand's response to Trump has 5 times the number of retweets and 4 times the number of likes as Trump's attack on her. So much for Twitter being his Excalibur. A woman with 2% of the number of followers who is unknown to much of the country is kicking his ass.
posted by chris24 at 10:24 AM on December 12, 2017 [36 favorites]


Mazie Hirono calls for Trump to resign. Is that up to five Senators, I think?
posted by Chrysostom at 10:26 AM on December 12, 2017 [23 favorites]


Careerism' on the part of women in politics is no vice.*

it's not, but I'd still like to hear it called leadership, since that's what it is.

"ambitious" isn't an insult to a woman but it is just incredible how people say it about Gillibrand and others like some revelation that they're drawing back the curtain to expose. like you could not be more straightforward and open about your ambitions than by running for the Senate, going on to be a Senator, and speaking publicly about your political positions in order to exert influence on the rest of the government and the electorate. with that as your openly stated goal!

and yet it is always like they have discovered her unsavory secret. it's like if she were a writer and somebody wanted to take her down by spreading the word that she knows how to read.
posted by queenofbithynia at 10:28 AM on December 12, 2017 [70 favorites]


it's not, but I'd still like to hear it called leadership, since that's what it is.

That's a very good point. More women leaders, please!
posted by jedicus at 10:32 AM on December 12, 2017 [8 favorites]


Yeah I expect to see her exploring the touristical delights of Iowa sometime soon.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:38 AM on December 12 [10 favorites +] [!]

I recommend the Devonian Fossil Gorge. And, no, you won't find Chuck Grassley embedded in the rocks...
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:32 AM on December 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


Mazie Hirono calls for Trump to resign. Is that up to five Senators, I think?

posted by Chrysostom 18 minutes ago [10 favorites +] [!]


I think its six:
Gillibrand
Hirono
Sanders
Booker
Wyden
Merkley
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:52 AM on December 12, 2017 [14 favorites]


Erik Wemple, CNN’s Jim Acosta cites access threat from White House’s Sarah Huckabee Sanders
After Trump signed the document, he got up and began walking out of the Roosevelt Room. Acosta asked: “Mr. President, what did you mean when you said that Kirsten Gillibrand would do anything for a campaign contribution?”

Good question! The president turned his head with a glare and proceeded to exit. No answer.

Later on, Acosta told CNN colleague Wolf Blitzer about how desperately the White House wanted to sidestep that uncomfortable encounter. “In the moments before I asked the president the question in the Roosevelt Room as he was signing the National Defense Authorization bill, the White House press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, pulled me aside — this was prior to me asking that question of the president. And she warned me that if I asked the president a question at this pool spray, as we call them, that she could not promise that I would be allowed into a pool spray again,” said Acosta. “Wolf, this was a direct threat coming from the press secretary to me, warning me not to ask a question and, of course, I went ahead and asked the question anyway and the president did not respond. But Wolf, as you know, we don’t respond to threats, we’re not going to be intimidated.”
posted by zachlipton at 11:42 AM on December 12, 2017 [99 favorites]


Steve Bannon and Breitbart spent months trying to sabotage Twitter

Suprised they'd need to given Jack's generally pro-nazi stance.
posted by Artw at 12:01 PM on December 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


CNN, Exclusive: Grassley urges Trump to reconsider controversial judicial picks
Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley issued a rare rebuke Tuesday of two of President Donald Trump's most controversial judicial nominees, urging the White House to rethink the picks.

Grassley told CNN that he is advising the White House to "reconsider" the nomination of Jeff Mateer, who was selected to become a federal judge in Texas. He said the White House "should not proceed" on the nomination of Brett Talley, whom Trump picked to become a federal judge in Alabama.
Talley's nomination already passed Grassley's Judiciary Committee, but it's fascinating to me that even in this utterly weaksauce way, Grassley may be approaching his limit

Mateer is known for, among other things, declaring trans kids to be part of "Satan's plan" (please remember whenever anybody complains that Democrats are all about identity politics that Republicans are the ones bringing this up every day). Talley failed to mention his marriage to White House counsel Don McGahn's chief of staff (who picks judicial nominees), has practiced law for three years, never tried a case, and is just the third nominee to receive a unanimous "not qualified" rating from the ABA since 1989.

It would be a great time to call your Senators and ask that these people not be given lifetime appointments.
posted by zachlipton at 12:03 PM on December 12, 2017 [44 favorites]


And while we're on the topic of POTUS committing sexual assault and using aggressively sexualized language to attack female political opponents, let's not forget about the sheer rapiness of his "tired of winning" stump speech when he delivered it in SC [#15]:
We're going to win so much. You're going to get tired of winning. You’re going to say, ‘Please Mr. President, I have a headache. Please, don't win so much. This is getting terrible.’ And I'm going to say, ‘No, we have to make America great again.’ You're gonna say, ‘Please.’ I said, ‘Nope, nope. We're gonna keep winning.’
Analogies like that don't emerge from nowhere.
posted by Westringia F. at 12:06 PM on December 12, 2017 [67 favorites]


Maybe this is "bitch eating crackers" territory, but I just find each of these little things so telling and so, so infuriating.

@blakehounshell tweet: The White House put out a statement on Friday hailing "those suffering under the yolk of authoritarianism." (h/t @robBerchinski)

(Tweet links to image of typed White House release text, because Twitter is what it is.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:22 PM on December 12, 2017 [14 favorites]


So one of those Egg Council creeps got to you too, huh?
posted by AndrewInDC at 12:25 PM on December 12, 2017 [22 favorites]


The Republican Party’s reality problem — and ours
posted by Artw at 12:25 PM on December 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


@blakehounshell tweet: The White House put out a statement on Friday hailing "those suffering under the yolk of authoritarianism." (h/t @robBerchinski)

Well, on ne saurait faire d'omelette sans casser des œufs.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 12:30 PM on December 12, 2017 [22 favorites]


WH daily press briefing happening now. Not going to liveblog it here, but Sarah Huckabee Sanders just said that anyone who read the president’s tweet this morning about Sen. Gillibrand as innuendo-laden “must have your mind in the gutter.” This is what they’re going with: plausible deniability that he’s a creep and blaming it on projection. Sigh. They’re doubling down on attacking Sen. Gillibrand.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 12:41 PM on December 12, 2017 [11 favorites]


I should have known trump orders his omelets "whites only".
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:44 PM on December 12, 2017 [25 favorites]


Maybe this is "bitch eating crackers" territory, but I just find each of these little things so telling and so, so infuriating.

It really isn't BEC territory at all. Their repeated low-grade fuckups are a prime indicator for their generally low level of give-a-shit-ness and overall uncaring contempt for the US.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 12:48 PM on December 12, 2017 [15 favorites]



WH daily press briefing happening now. Not going to liveblog it here, but Sarah Huckabee Sanders just said that anyone who read the president’s tweet this morning about Sen. Gillibrand as innuendo-laden “must have your mind in the gutter.”

It is a stretch to assume anything untoward in the tweet from that same model of chastity that gave us "grab them by the pussy".
posted by asteria at 12:58 PM on December 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


This is what they’re going with: plausible deniability that he’s a creep and blaming it on projection.

There's always a story, always an explanation, and it's never just exactly what it fucking looks like. You are a fool to believe what your eyes have seen, to trust what your ears have heard.

I'll take that from Descartes, but I won't ever take that from Sarah Huckabee Sanders.
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:10 PM on December 12, 2017 [11 favorites]


WaPo, Congressional Republicans in advanced talks to reduce the tax rate for top earners to 37 percent as part of final tax bill

Oh good. A tax cut for the highest earners. That's just what the tax bill needed. They'll try to rush it through next week before people notice.
posted by zachlipton at 1:11 PM on December 12, 2017 [21 favorites]


Tammy Baldwin taking the twitter gloves off:

Word of advice for Mr. Trump: publicly disparaging women doesn’t make you look stronger—it only reveals your weakness as a leader

Then again, perhaps we shouldn’t be surprised when Cadet Bone Spurs,who has a documented history of “grabbing” women, fails to treat women professionally or appropriately
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:11 PM on December 12, 2017 [22 favorites]


The WH youtube channel just released an unnerving and inexplicable 40 second video titled "Christmas at the Vice President's Home," in which Karen Pence leads(?) the viewer on an aimless journey through their pristine decorated house. 50s-era ambient music, weird shots and angles, irregular focus, no living humans apart from Karen's shadowy presence. I half-expected the thing behind the Winkies Diner in Mulholland Drive to lurch out from behind their gingerbread house.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:11 PM on December 12, 2017 [38 favorites]


Lowering the top tax rate to 37% plus having the corp rate cut take place a year earlier than the Senate bill would require raising revenue somewhere, wouldn't it? And that's not even taking into account attempts to include the AMT repeal.

I guess they looked at the bill polling at like 30% and figured that meant they had 30% more room to make it worse.
posted by Justinian at 1:16 PM on December 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'll take that from Descartes, but I won't ever take that from Sarah Huckabee Sanders.

Who among us hasn’t been accused of taking things from Descartes?

Just me? Oh.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 1:17 PM on December 12, 2017 [22 favorites]


Robert Mueller is looking into 3 big questions about Trump and Flynn’s firing
1) When did Trump learn that Flynn and Kislyak had talked sanctions?
2) When did Trump become aware that Pence and Spicer were falsely describing the Flynn-Kislyak call?
3) When did Trump learn that Flynn lied to the FBI — and why did he wait so long to fire him?
posted by kirkaracha at 1:21 PM on December 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


> ambient music, weird shots and angles, irregular focus, no living humans

It's like real estate agents made an M. Night Shyamalan movie. By accident.
posted by Buntix at 1:24 PM on December 12, 2017 [16 favorites]


50s-era ambient music

Is that a Muzak version of "I Want a Hippopotamus for Christmas"?
posted by contraption at 1:36 PM on December 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Artw: The Republican Party’s reality problem — and ours

I’ve been paying so much attention to this lately, hoping to see a detailed theoretical outline of this phenomenon. The Trump administration’s refutation of reality is unheard of, and goes beyond simply saying certain policy proposals will have particular outcomes. “Politicians are liars” has been a meme for decades, but outwardly denying reality in such egregious ways as this administration has done is perturbing for so many reasons, especially when such a large part of the Republican base lives within a different reality than the rest of us. Consensus reality appears to be falling apart, and we’re entering an era where human beings are capable of living in different worlds without the use of virtual reality, simultaneously with people living in the remnants of consensus reality. This era really bothers me, since it’s clear to most people, and especially to us here, that things like alternative facts are just lies created by denialist fetishists. But what happens when they start creating a new reality that even envelops us? Trump’s Jerusalem statement, about “recognizing reality”, feels like the first move toward manipulating reality through policy, and it scares me that we’ll begin seeing more things like this. What if the Republican tax cuts “do” help out the economy? What if the Republicans game the system to show that they work, and in effect create a reality that has thus far been disproven? That’s what scares me.
posted by gucci mane at 1:44 PM on December 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


If the tax bill does help the economy, then... Good, I guess. The idea that a victory for my opponents is a loss for me is silly when we're talking about policy. If they pass it, and it has all the promised effects, then I imagine I'll re-evaluate what I think I know about economic policy. But I don't think I'd be upset! The promised effects are very nice. They're also basically the opposite of what will actually happen, and *that* is the problem, not the fact that it's a Republican policy.
posted by dbx at 2:07 PM on December 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


I’m talking about if the tax cuts don't really help the economy, but the administration and its enablers and peddlers of fake news (Fox News, WSJ, etc.) somehow manipulate facts and create a reality that shows the tax cuts worked for everybody, and no one can disprove it, thus leaving the country in a state of uncertainty about what actually happened. If the tax cuts don’t work like they’re proven not to, but somehow the administration convinces everyone that they did work and we have perpetual tax cuts as policy, what then?
posted by gucci mane at 2:15 PM on December 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


I mean, to be fair, "consensus reality" has always included a lot of false stuff, like "the police are here to protect us all," and suchlike. But you're totally right, we've gotten to the point where if Trump announced the sky is green and rain falls up, 29% of the country would agree with him and claim it had always been that way.
posted by rikschell at 2:16 PM on December 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


What will prove the “tax cuts” are not working is the string of foreclosures, bankruptcies and deaths that follow them. It’ll be kinda hard to say “everything is fine” if everyone knows several people who aren’t.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:20 PM on December 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Tammy Baldwin taking the twitter gloves off:


(The editor in me needs to point out it's Sen. Duckworth.)
posted by NorthernLite at 2:20 PM on December 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


On the defense funding bill today, Trump once again used his signing statement to complain about how harsh the bill is towards Russia. Perfectly normal.
posted by chris24 at 2:24 PM on December 12, 2017 [25 favorites]


I respect that consensus reality has always had falsities within it, but there has always been evidence and history pointing those falsities out. What happens to our country when the evidence is manipulated to support the falsities? That’s what I’m attempting to get at. I guess it would be state sponsored information manipulation, which would then be dispensed by nominal instruments of the state, such as universities under control of right-wing donors, right-wing think tanks, policy measures, right-wing media, etc.
posted by gucci mane at 2:24 PM on December 12, 2017


What happens to our country when the evidence is manipulated to support the falsities?

Well the Iraq War, for one thing.
posted by zachlipton at 2:28 PM on December 12, 2017 [34 favorites]


witchen: Trump says it's all okay = massive amounts of death and suffering are elided and it disappears from the front page, and the numbers are fudged, and there are no consequences.

This is exactly what I’m trying to get at, but right now people are aware there are more deaths than officially notated. What happens if NOBODY is aware of that because the state has successfully manipulated things in favor of their story?

This is kind of hard to explain, because I don’t have the vocabulary to sufficiently explain the concepts I am talking about. It’d be as if the administration put out a doctored photo of his inauguration crowd, and there was absolutely no way to disprove it, so everybody just went along with the administration’s version of the story.
posted by gucci mane at 2:28 PM on December 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


What happens to our country when the evidence is manipulated to support the falsities?

That's when it's Verrit's time to shine!
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:30 PM on December 12, 2017


Well the Iraq War, for one thing.

And Iran-Contra, and Watergate, and ...
posted by Melismata at 2:31 PM on December 12, 2017


This is kind of hard to explain, because I don’t have the vocabulary to sufficiently explain the concepts I am talking about.

No, you're right, and they're already doing it. The way we know the economy is tanking is because, in part, the Dept of Labor releases figures documenting the number of people on unemployment. We know whether we have inflation because the Commerce Dept tracks the price of goods. And so forth.

If, in order to cover the failure of the tax plan to provide any benefit to the 99%, the federal government changes the way it reports this kind of data in order to show the country is prospering, there isn't much the average person can do. Sure, the media will bring on experts to point out that these statistics are not to be trusted, but the average person won't understand or believe that.

The average person will see the waves of foreclosures in their neighborhood, and that will just give rise to the feeling we are experiencing now, which is an inability to trust any source of data. If the government tells you the economy is booming but eight of your neighbors just got laid off when the plant closed, what do you believe?
posted by suelac at 2:37 PM on December 12, 2017 [16 favorites]


The nice part about reality is that it gives exactly zero shits about what you or anyone else thinks.

Maybe they could drum up some nonsense or just straight-up lie about the effects the tax bill is having and that might work for a while, but eventually enough people are going see the effect first hand in ways that the admin can't lie it's way out of. "The economy is growing like never before" doesn't do much to convince me if I can't afford food. Things don't need to get so dire that we're all starving, I don't think, but reality is real, you can't change it just cover it up.

It's like the admin is investing in it's future by taking a short position on reality. The problem with short positions is that you're basically betting that the market is irrational, if you're right it'll return to rationality and you'll make a fortune but the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. In this case, it's the admin hoping that they can blind us to reality for longer than we can fight back. Reality will catch up, we just need to make sure that we're still here and fighting when it does. Fortunately, we don't need to just wait around, we can help reality catch up faster.
posted by VTX at 2:39 PM on December 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


The ‘Alt-Right’ Created a Parallel Internet. It’s an Unholy Mess. Kevin Roose/NYTimes
posted by mumimor at 2:40 PM on December 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


The way we know the economy is tanking is because, in part, the Dept of Labor releases figures documenting the number of people on unemployment.

Well we’ve slowly been changing how employment figures have been reported as well. Since the start of the GFC we haven’t seen labor force participation recover. Still at a solid 62.5%. What we’ve seen is not so much unemployment dropping but people giving up completely on the labor market. But that’s not to say the economy is in the toilet, what we’re seeing is a two speed economy. Business and capital are seeing record growth. As the GFC unwound there’s been all these people not spending money who now have been.

The logical solution would be to transfer wealth from the overheating parts of the economy to stimulate underperforming parts of the economy by taxation. Much like wealth gets transferred from California to Alabama by the federal government. Instead we’re just further putting a rocket under an already ridiculously over performing segment of the economy. If those people spent their money instead of throwing in a Scrooge McDuckian vault we could be in danger of inflation but since the middle class are being smothered by real wages that don’t increase and increased debt to retain a middle class standard of living that’s not bloody likely.
posted by Talez at 2:51 PM on December 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


What happens if NOBODY is aware of that because the state has successfully manipulated things in favor of their story?

So, Orwell's 1984.

It's not as though this hasn't been attempted in the real world, from Soviet Russia to North Korea. The worst case result is that though the government may be able to maintain political control, the world doesn't much care. A minority will get news from outside sources, and the economy and I frastructure will slowly collapse.

Otherwise than that, I'm not sure what you're getting at. They won't actually be able to create reality, just enact propaganda.
posted by happyroach at 2:54 PM on December 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


FYI if they were serious about a middle class tax cut they could just jack up the EITC amount. There’s no reason to mess with brackets.
posted by Talez at 2:54 PM on December 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


On the defense funding bill today, Trump once again used his signing statement to complain about how harsh the bill is towards Russia. Perfectly normal.

Sadly, that's not surprising. What is surprising is the contents of the bill:
The bill passed by Congress contains several provisions specifically targeting Russia. It restricts military cooperation with Russia, prohibits the United States from recognizing Russia's legal right to the disputed Crimea peninsula, and requires the military to "develop and implement a comprehensive strategy to counter threats by the Russian Federation" — including Russia's use of disinformation, social media and support for political parties.
The fact that this came from the GOP-majority House and Senate is refreshing. Of course, they're empty words until anyone acts upon them.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:57 PM on December 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


gucci mane: “I’ve been paying so much attention to this lately, hoping to see a detailed theoretical outline of this phenomenon.”
I don't know if you can say it's detailed, but this documentary has greatly informed my thinking about the last year.

HyperNormalisation [Caution: Graphic Violence], Adam Curtis, 2016 [Previously]
HyperNormalisation wades through the culmination of forces that have driven this culture into mass uncertainty, confusion, spectacle and simulation. Where events keep happening that seem crazy, inexplicable and out of control—from Donald Trump to Brexit, to the War in Syria, mass immigration, extreme disparity in wealth, and increasing bomb attacks in the West—this film shows a basis to not only why these chaotic events are happening, but also why we, as well as those in power, may not understand them.
posted by ob1quixote at 3:00 PM on December 12, 2017 [11 favorites]


MN gov Dayton will be naming a replacement for Sen. Franken tomorrow morning. Still no specific resignation date for Franken; I would guess he wants to stick around to year end/final tax bill vote.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:02 PM on December 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


If the government tells you the economy is booming but eight of your neighbors just got laid off when the plant closed, what do you believe?

I think it is worth pointing out that this is exactly the experience people in rural areas have had for years. the national e inky outs great, because the cities are booming, but rural factories continue to close. I think our might be part of why those people already don't believe anything the government says.

I think what happens is that we all become tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists. I understand that's exactly what life is like in Putin's Russia, and Malala Yousefzai describes the same kind of ubiquitous paranoia and conspiracy thinking in Pakistan, in her book. It is bass to ever resolve any conflicts without a shared reality, so this is a recipe for unending unrest and violence.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:03 PM on December 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Clickbate trickery and shade from WaPo: A running list of the eyewitnesses who prove Trump’s innocence on sexual misconduct (Philip Bump, Dec. 12, 2017)

Spoiler: it's eleven instances of sexual assault paired with "Eyewitness rebuttal: None presented by the White House," plus the quickly discredited and generally disgusting Anthony Gilberthorpe, and "a longtime family butler who came into the room after the incident said that nothing seemed unusual" -- (emphasis mine) which is itself a dose of shade.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:04 PM on December 12, 2017 [16 favorites]


Who told the Prez that the tax plan is harsh for Russia? He sure as hell didn’t read it himself.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:15 PM on December 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


That was supposed to say "the national economy is great."

I have the flu.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:18 PM on December 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


Oooh. Remember before the election, there was a computer in Trump tower that was talking to a Russian bank computer for no good reason? That was Alfa Bank.

Dutch subsidiary of Russia's Alfa Bank raided in money laundering investigation
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 3:29 PM on December 12, 2017 [57 favorites]


Oooh. Remember before the election, there was a computer in Trump tower that was talking to a Russian bank computer for no good reason?

I REMEMBER! This is the little story that could.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:10 PM on December 12, 2017 [22 favorites]


Oooh. Remember before the election, there was a computer in Trump tower that was talking to a Russian bank computer for no good reason?

You mean the server that they claimed was only sending spam e-mails about Trump hotels, yet the majority of the activity took place during Russian business hours? That sent spam e-mails to only two destinations?

You mean the server that also communicated to some server at Spectrum Health, an organization with $uper deep tie$ to the DeVos family?
posted by Mister Fabulous at 4:21 PM on December 12, 2017 [40 favorites]


Dutch subsidiary of Russia's Alfa Bank raided in money laundering investigation
The Dutch subsidiary of Russia’s Alfa Bank, owned by billionaire Mikhail Fridman, was searched last week as part of an investigation into possible money laundering, the Dutch financial crimes prosecutor said on Tuesday.
Fridman, megathread-reading MeFites will remember, was one of the Russian oligarchs mentioned in the Steele Dossier. He, Pyotr Aven, and German Khan would later sue Fusion GPS and Glenn Simpson for libel over their appearance in it as members of Putin's inner circle of oligarchs (it names Fridman and Aven as people Putin even trusted for their advice on the US and foreign policy).

Funny how these Dutch charges of bribery and money-laundering Reuters reports would be just the kind of financial kompromat the dossier alleged Fridman & co. had on Putin—back in the 90s, Alfa Bank's bagman used to "deliver large amounts of illicit cash to the Russian president, at that time deputy Mayor of St. Petersburg."
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:34 PM on December 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


And let's not forget about Trump's nominee to lead the Justice Department's criminal division, Brian A. Benczkowski:

Justice Dept. Nominee Says He Worked on Russian Bank’s Trump-Related Inquiry
posted by Room 641-A at 4:40 PM on December 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


Is someone from Sam Bee's Full Frontal on metafilter? Good reason for cake. Thanks, Kristen Gillibrand!
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 4:47 PM on December 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


Politico, Dems back away from brink on Dreamers
Democratic leaders aren’t going to shut down the government to save Dreamers in December.

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi haven’t stopped fighting to deliver something on immigration by the end of the month. But they’ve subtly shifted their rhetoric in recent days and aren’t insisting that deportation relief be paired with a government funding bill this year.

Top Democrats’ retreat from demands on a deal before 2018 ensures they won’t get blamed for a possible shutdown and won’t upend Senate talks on a bipartisan deal combining relief for Dreamers with border security. Those negotiations appear to be gaining momentum and may well bear fruit this month, particularly once Republicans reach a final agreement on their long-sought package of tax cuts.
ARGH. I don't know what the hell we're doing here, but there better be an actual strategy behind this position.
posted by zachlipton at 5:15 PM on December 12, 2017 [19 favorites]


I don't know what the hell we're doing here, but there better be an actual strategy behind this position.

Unfortunately, it's probably "we can't actually hold the whole country hostage for these people!"
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:30 PM on December 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


"ARGH. I don't know what the hell we're doing here …"
Walking to the Right...
posted by Pinback at 5:32 PM on December 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


Don't shoot the fucking hostage just because the Republicans do it. If the Republicans ran a child molester would you start demanding we make sure every subsequent candidate has felt up a 14 year old? There's millions of people who are going to experience a huge amount of pain if things get shut down. Stop being so desperate to lash out and cause pain to people who don't deserve it. We're supposed to be better than those assholes.
posted by Talez at 5:39 PM on December 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


Well, I hope those millions who won't suffer now cherish the sacrifice the most marginalized, aka, the Dreamers, just gave them.

The people who are going to hurt the most are people who are going to wake up on New Years Day with a family to feed and an EBT card that doesn't work. So yeah, I think we can cut some fucking slack on this one.
posted by Talez at 5:45 PM on December 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


"Hey! We don't like what you're doing to immigrants so let's throw the poor under the bus to prove that we're serious!"
posted by Talez at 5:47 PM on December 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


when such a large part of the Republican base lives within a different reality than the rest of us

I wish they did
posted by thelonius at 5:50 PM on December 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm not really convinced that the Republicans don't want a government shutdown.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:51 PM on December 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


Glad to know that you're okay with immigrants being thrown under the bus.

If poor people and kids are going to go hungry, yeah, I'll feed them over working out a DACA deal. I'm not going to apologize for that.

I'm not really convinced that the Republicans don't want a government shutdown.

Exactly. If Schumer threatens a shutdown McConnell is literally going to be on the Senate floor saying "please Mr Schumer don't throw me into the briar patch".
posted by Talez at 5:52 PM on December 12, 2017 [11 favorites]


I can definitely see a Republican strategy after a prolonged government shutdown that's basically "we're getting by just fine without these services so let's cut funding for all the things." And a whole lot of privileged people won't feel immediate pain from a shutdown so the narrative would have legs. I mean I feel like they're trying to do that exact thing with CHIP right now.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:01 PM on December 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


I don't know what the hell we're doing here, but there better be an actual strategy behind this position.

Unfortunately, it's probably "we can't actually hold the whole country hostage for these people!"

It's this. When it comes down to it, Democrats have learned nothing, even still. They're still the same weak, principleless, desperate to be loved by Republican donors party that they've always been. They're not going to demand concessions because they're not strong enough to do it. If Schumer and Pelosi tried to force a shutdown, they'd lose half of the party to defections. If that's the case, the illusion of folding to fight another day is all they have - but we've learned time and time again, the day when Democrats actually show conviction will never, ever come.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:10 PM on December 12, 2017 [7 favorites]


Can we maybe not argue about who is valuing poor people at the expense of immigrants and who is valuing immigrants at the expense of poor people? That sort of bad-faith zero-sum stuff is not gonna help anyone.
posted by neroli at 6:10 PM on December 12, 2017 [18 favorites]


The CHIP kids and the Dreamers will be sold upstream, because of course we can't shutdown the government for *them*. And next it'll be some other group and another, and only when the line hits just a specific subset of white people will the line be drawn.

I'm not sure shutting down the government is a credible threat to people who want to drown it in a bathtub. It's like a kid threatening to not eat dessert as leverage.
posted by Talez at 6:10 PM on December 12, 2017 [16 favorites]


I don't entirely understand what a shutdown of the government is supposed to accomplish. It's an effective tactic for Republicans to use against Democrats, because Democrats value the things that the state does. It's not an effective tactic for Democrats to use against Republicans, because Republicans think that most state functions are worthless. And because I do value the things that the government does, I don't think that we should do it unless it's going to accomplish something.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:11 PM on December 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


Axios: Schumer calls cops after forged sex scandal charge

Kate Nocera from BuzzFeed adds: We saw this document - it had obvious red flags, including a reference to "house rule 23" and striking similarities to a document filed against *Conyers* in court
posted by zachlipton at 6:15 PM on December 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


Schumer calls cops after forged sex scandal charge (Mike Allen, Axios)
Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) said he was the victim of a fake news hit on Tuesday, and has turned over to Capitol Police a document that purports to detail lurid sexual harassment accusations by a former staffer.

Why it matters: This was an apparent effort to dupe a news organization and smear a senator — both symptoms of an amped-up news environment where harassment charges are proliferating and reporters have become targets for fraud.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:16 PM on December 12, 2017 [14 favorites]


Ratfucking allegations against every Democratic Senator should be expected. This is what Republicans do, and right side of history or not, they have a new weapon now.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:24 PM on December 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


O'Keefe and/or Dorm Pooper in handcuffs? Tell me when to tune in.
posted by rhizome at 6:28 PM on December 12, 2017


I still can't believe that any Democrats are accepting this framing that the shutdown is their decision. 218 votes are needed in the House to pass a bill, and 60 votes in the Senate. If there are not enough votes in support of a bill, that bill must shift policy in order to win those votes. If the majority party refuses to change the bill to win the votes it needs to pass the bill, that is a decision by the majority party. Refusing to vote for a bill that you don't support is not blackmail. If the majority says that they will allow the government to shut down rather than modify a bill to win sufficient votes, that is the majority's decision. Sure, the minority could vote for a bill they dislike in order to prevent the hostage from being shot, but no moral theory ever developed would conclude that a minority that refused to vote for a bill they dislike is responsible for the threat the hostage-taker is making. Either propose a bill that wins a majority, or shut the government down; those are the decisions for the majority, and the minority's role is to vote for what it likes.

The frustrating thing about this is that not only is the moral logic of hostage-taking clear (that is, the hostage-taker is responsible if the hostage is shot), but public opinion is overwhelmingly unified in this. The majority party is *always* blamed in a government shutdown. The only way this could possibly go wrong is if the minority party preemptively capitulates by asserting that they will take responsibility if the hostage is shot. Which up until now, they have never been so stupid to do. Just call the bluff, accept the shutdown, and watch the Republican approval numbers plummet so quickly that the fears of 2018 redouble and they back down, as always happens. Any claims that it is the Democrats' moral duty to preemptively capitulate in order to save the hostages just makes things much, much worse and represents a deep misunderstanding of both basic moral logic, and basic electoral politics.
posted by chortly at 6:29 PM on December 12, 2017 [30 favorites]


A president who would all but call Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand a whore is not fit to clean the toilets in the Barack Obama Presidential Library or to shine the shoes of George W. Bush.
USA Today are pulling no punches.
posted by Talez at 6:40 PM on December 12, 2017 [74 favorites]


It’s probably nothing but... a reporter friend in Washington just got called in for an “emergency meeting” at the Dept of Justice and when she jokingly asked if she could go in her sweatpants they said, “come in your pajamas, we don’t care.”
posted by lazaruslong at 6:40 PM on December 12, 2017 [16 favorites]


I think that it's time for the Democrats to take a risk and stand for something. Trump hates immigrants, which has raised the popular opinion of immigrants, which is what Trump's hatred does for the things he hates. DACA immigrants are kids, even more sympathetic.

Also, if there isn't a deal - if the Democrats fuck it up - those kids will be deported to places they don't even know, some of them will be killed, some of them will have their life chances ruined, some of them will just have a very bad time of it. Just the worry is already ruining the health and lives of people who are in DACA status. These are the vulnerable that we are supposed to be protecting.

I think the Democrats are dumb. I think they think that they can't win on immigration, or at least can't win without pissing off some of their richer constituents. I think they think Americans are too racist to care about this stuff, and I think they're wrong. I think we need to be using language to reconstitute the social body, and the Democrats are all we have for that purpose. We ought to be saying, "For the many, not the few, for the multitude, not the elites, for immigrants and working people against the rich, against the selfish assholes with their Smaug-hoards of gold and power". We can put this country together again as something else, rearrange the pieces, but we can't just sit around gaming out whether it's a vote-loser to stand up for people who are being victimized.
posted by Frowner at 6:44 PM on December 12, 2017 [29 favorites]


From USA Today: The senior FBI agent who was removed from special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia probe earlier this year referred to Donald Trump prior to his election as an “idiot,” according to a tranche of emails turned over to the Senate Judiciary Committee late Tuesday.

Peter Strzok, a counter-intelligence agent, also suggested that the Republican Party “needs to pull their head out of their ass."

Strzok was removed from Mueller's staff earlier this year after Justice Department investigators began reviewing whether he exchanged messages critical of President Trump. Strzok, who also helped run the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server, was abruptly reassigned this summer to the bureau’s human resources office.
posted by Bella Donna at 6:48 PM on December 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


I think Tillerson should be fired then.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:52 PM on December 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


but we can't just sit around gaming out whether it's a vote-loser to stand up for people who are being victimized.

QFT. I agree, Frowner. The Dems don't control government so it's not up to them whether the government gets funded. They should take a stand and fight for the DACA kids and CHIP and against the tax bill in every way possible.

Maybe many of the Dems in office have forgotten the disabled activists who put their bodies on the line protesting attempts to gut Obamacare. I haven't forgotten. Elected Democrats need to throw a fit. Most of them are still being too decorous, too business-as-usual. That shit needs to change.
posted by Bella Donna at 6:53 PM on December 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


Oh hey! It looks like Doug Jones just caught up to Roy Moore with 85% of the vote counted. The remainder is in Jones-favored areas, so it looks like we can probably exhale, and finally call it for Jones now.

Sorry, GOP...looks like you won’t be sending another family-values sexual predator to Congress tonight!
posted by darkstar at 7:16 PM on December 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


Way to jinx it, dude.
posted by uosuaq at 7:22 PM on December 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


You've gotta do the thing with the salt and the spinning outside now. Those are the rules as I understand them.
posted by VTX at 7:25 PM on December 12, 2017 [2 favorites]


AP just called it for Jones!

Trump’s a two-time loser in Alabama!
posted by darkstar at 7:28 PM on December 12, 2017 [5 favorites]


NYT, AP, WP, Fox News have all called it for Jones.
posted by Talez at 7:28 PM on December 12, 2017


ELECTION RESULT

Dem GAIN in US Senate Alabama. The Senate will be controlled 51-49 by the GOP.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:28 PM on December 12, 2017 [101 favorites]


I love that it feels more real after Chrystostom called it than it did with just every press outlet.
posted by SpaceBass at 7:30 PM on December 12, 2017 [85 favorites]


“...and the horse you rode in on!”
posted by darkstar at 7:41 PM on December 12, 2017 [19 favorites]


MCConnell is blaming the loss on Bannon lol. Says he dragged the president down.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:42 PM on December 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


2018 Senate Elections are going to be crazy. We can take it back. Run the table, pick up Arizona and Nevada and we take it.
posted by Talez at 7:49 PM on December 12, 2017 [21 favorites]


It underscores the smash and grab nature of the GOP tax bill. There’s unlikely to be another chance to raid the coffers quite like this for years to come.
posted by darkstar at 7:50 PM on December 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


“...and the horse you rode in on!”

Roy Moore's Horse: I did not ask for this.
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:53 PM on December 12, 2017 [17 favorites]


2018 Senate Elections are going to be crazy. We can take it back. Run the table, pick up Arizona and Nevada and we take it.

When we vote we win.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:56 PM on December 12, 2017 [22 favorites]


NT Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Trump respects women, you disgusting floozy
Why do all these women keep suggesting that Trump does not respect them, when he palpably respects not just 10s who are beautiful pieces of ass but those who are no longer a 10 and those who are built like a linebacker?

Trump respects women more than anybody, you bimbo. You bleeding badly from a face-lift fat pig, why would you think Trump did not respect women or might harass them or assault them or single them out in any way, when they let him do anything, because he is a star?

Why would you suggest Donald Trump had a woman problem, you lightweight with blood coming out of your wherever. You are unattractive both inside and out with your fat, ugly face, and your husband leveled up when he left you for a man. Look at that face, would anybody vote for that? You are disgusting. You are nasty.
(In the article, the insults are links to source material)
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:09 PM on December 12, 2017 [47 favorites]


ELECTION RESULT

GOP HOLD in Iowa Senate 3, 55-45. Note that this district went for Trump 68-27, so still a considerable overperformance by the Dems.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:24 PM on December 12, 2017 [28 favorites]


He's not conceding! Watching his speech live, Roy Moore is not conceding the election. Instead he's talking about the bible.
posted by dis_integration at 8:35 PM on December 12, 2017


Just realized that the reason we won this seats in the first place is because Trump plucked Jeff Sessions from it, just to have him recuse himself 😂
posted by Room 641-A at 8:36 PM on December 12, 2017 [42 favorites]


Sessions is calling Alberto Gonzales for advice these days.
posted by rhizome at 8:43 PM on December 12, 2017 [4 favorites]


@trish_regan (Fox Business)
President Trump promised a HUGE tax cut for Christmas. This bill is good for CORPORATIONS, but for individuals, this is more like an ugly piece of coal! C’mon, you guys can do better!
VIDEO


@jtlevy
Retweeted Trish Regan
Trish Regan on Fox Business is one of my bellweathers about how the wind is blowing to the right-- she's very predisposed to support Trump, so when she dissents or objects, I think it's an important sign.
posted by chris24 at 8:56 PM on December 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


zachlipton: "Grassley told CNN that he is advising the White House to "reconsider" the nomination of Jeff Mateer, who was selected to become a federal judge in Texas. He said the White House "should not proceed" on the nomination of Brett Talley, whom Trump picked to become a federal judge in Alabama."

Talley may be dropping out:
One of President Donald Trump's controversial judicial nominees, Brett Talley, has offered to withdraw his nomination, a source close to the situation told BuzzFeed News.

The White House had not announced any change in Talley's status as of Tuesday evening. Talley communicated his offer of withdrawal to the White House last week, according to the source.

If the White House does decide to withdraw Talley's name, it would be Trump's first unsuccessful judicial nomination.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:42 PM on December 12, 2017 [12 favorites]


I know it was a crazy day, but looking back on it all, I can't get over the fact that the Trump family all failing to vote properly (wrong birthday, didn't sign, didn't mail until election day, didn't bother to vote) wasn't more of a thing. The people who are supposed to be running the country were all stymied by an absentee ballot.
posted by zachlipton at 9:49 PM on December 12, 2017 [41 favorites]


"donald trump fails at something simple within the capabilities of most adults" is sort of a "dog bites man" story, isn't it?
posted by murphy slaw at 9:53 PM on December 12, 2017 [29 favorites]


What do you think Jeff Sessions is thinking right now?

Oh no, that's terrible! When did he start doing that!?
posted by loquacious at 10:03 PM on December 12, 2017 [18 favorites]


The FCC's net neutrality vote is set for Thursday.

You can call Congress and ask them to act. You can also call the FCC at (202) 418-1000.

Interestingly, Colorado Rep. Mike Coffman is the first Republican to call for the FCC to delay its vote. A study found 83% of respondents, including 75% of Republicans, opposed to repealing net neutrality after it was explained to them (this is a hard issue to poll because it usually does require explanation, and how you explain it obviously influences the results).

If this happens, those responsible need to know we see them. Call.
posted by zachlipton at 10:14 PM on December 12, 2017 [29 favorites]


Not on the news, but in conversations: need to frame this as "Your ISP could block all porn."
posted by msalt at 10:50 PM on December 12, 2017 [6 favorites]


in conversations: need to frame this as "Your ISP could block all porn."

That is a poor argument to make because it's both unlikely and technologically infeasible (and is a topic many people don't want to talk about), so it makes the person presenting it look alarmist. What is a good talking point is, "Your ISP is going to charge you extra to watch videos on Netflix/Prime/Hulu/YouTube, to do video calls with Hangouts/Skype/FaceTime, and to keep up with friends and family on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, even though you're already paying a lot for your internet connection and the ISPs are making a lot of money.
posted by Candleman at 11:00 PM on December 12, 2017 [13 favorites]


Your ISP is going to charge you extra to watch videos on Netflix/Prime/Hulu/YouTube, to do video calls with Hangouts/Skype/FaceTime, and to keep up with friends and family on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram

For individuals, tailor the message to them - pick one or two services you know they care about.

For unknown people (group at work, etc.) mention Netflix (because woah do ISPs hate Netflix), Facebook (sigh), and some odd ones that don't get as much attention: Wikipedia, Fantasy Football, Reddit. Point out that while all the "big" sites may have deals with ISPs to be on all the plans, all the smaller, indie, and nonprofit sites may be unavailable unless you pay an extra amount each month.

Most likely, most ISPs aren't going to start by filtering out whole websites; that would raise a lot of outcry and besides, they haven't studied the business options. Instead, they'll throttle Netflix and Youtube streaming, but allow you to un-throttle them for a fee. Maybe $20/month; maybe $1 per hour of unlimited streaming speed.

We can go back to hourly internet costs!
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:19 PM on December 12, 2017 [9 favorites]


We can go back to hourly internet costs!

They wouldn't mind. People paid hundreds of dollars a month in the CompuServe/AOL days.
posted by rhizome at 11:23 PM on December 12, 2017 [1 favorite]


People paid hundreds of dollars a month in the CompuServe/AOL days.

Supergeeks paid hundreds of dollars a month for CompuServe and AOL. Rich supergeeks. People living on minimum wage didn't. (But they don't much say in this, of course.) Senators didn't - the internet was that weird computer techie-nerd thing.

The people who balk at paying property taxes that would never affect their style of living, will not accept hourly charges for Netflix, especially not "$1 off-peak, $3/hour peak charges." The only problem is that they may not understand that's what's coming if net neutrality goes away.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:41 PM on December 12, 2017 [20 favorites]


Probably there should be a new Net Neutrality thread.

Yay Alabama!
posted by aspersioncast at 5:24 AM on December 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump's a helluva dealmaker.

@joshledermanAP
Breaking overnight: ISTANBUL (AP) - Palestinian President Abbas says Palestinians won't accept any role for US in Mideast peace process 'from now on'
posted by chris24 at 6:29 AM on December 13, 2017 [33 favorites]


Contributing National Review Editor and former Chief Asst. U.S. Attorney.

@AndrewCMcCarthy
#Strzok & Page texts look like a big nothing - no hint of corruption in their jobs. Lots of people (me included) speak crudely in private about politics. If you’re ok w/ Trump’s outbursts, I don’t see getting whipped over this BS.
DC Examiner: DOJ provides Congress with hundreds of texts between ex-Mueller team agent Peter Strzok and alleged mistress Lisa Page
posted by chris24 at 6:49 AM on December 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


TPM: White House: Omarosa Manigault Newman To Leave Trump Admin In Jan.

Some scuttlebutt from April Ryan: I heard there was drama and she was escorted out of the building and off campus
posted by PenDevil at 6:59 AM on December 13, 2017 [30 favorites]


omg, from the comments on that april ryan tweet:
So Trump heard black women were responsible for Doug Jones win in Alabama and fired the first one he could find?
posted by murphy slaw at 7:10 AM on December 13, 2017 [42 favorites]


I popped into the usual dens of depravity and Trump love to see if my predictions about their reactions were right, and I was mostly correct but missed one big thing.

The reaction among the MAGA types is, as predicted, a sudden reversal and declaration that Moore wasn't really a **TRUE** Trump acolyte and MAGA supporter and that's why he lost. Like magic, Moore has become a reviled figure they hated all along. MAGA cannot fail it can only be failed, and those who fail while endorsing it were retroactively never true to the faith.

They aren't happy with the outcome, but now Roy Moore is being denounced as a religious loon and fundamentalist and, of course, those are (retroactively) heresy against MAGA.

What I didn't expect is that, thanks to the joys of cognitive dissonance, they also believe that Roy Moore was a good candidate who would have won if it hadn't been for those vile lies about him being a child molester. There's much wailing and gnashing of teeth over how the evil Liberal Media was able to deceive the voters of Alabama and how, now that the pernicious cabals of liberals who secretly run things won with lies once they are predicting that going forward every Republican candidate will be wrongly accused of rape a few weeks before the election
posted by sotonohito at 7:11 AM on December 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


Yeah, the Strzok and Page texts are lame, I was hoping for some quality snark at least, but they're just not that witty. The closest thing to a "hint of corruption" is this, where Strzok says, "...I'm afraid we can't take that risk. It's like an insurance policy in case you die before you're 40..." which I guess could refer to them doing something in their professional capacity, but could also be some kind of general "the country can't afford it" sentiment.

Has anyone actually posted the full text of ALL the text messages that have been made available by the DOJ? All the articles I'm seeing are just cherry-picking selected quotes.
posted by creampuff at 7:14 AM on December 13, 2017


More fallout from Trump's rash and reckless pronouncements on Jerusalem:

The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) has declared East Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine, rejected the US stance as "dangerous", and called on the international community to follow in its footsteps.

The group of Muslim leaders on Wednesday called on all countries to "recognise the State of Palestine and East Jerusalem as its occupied capital". (Source: Al Jazeera)
posted by stonepharisee at 7:18 AM on December 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Breaking overnight: ISTANBUL (AP) - Palestinian President Abbas says Palestinians won't accept any role for US in Mideast peace process 'from now on'


Welp.


Realpolitik being what it is, I suspect the US will be back in the role of mediator-at-large eventually. We just have too much vested interest in the area and too much money we can throw around not to be able to weasel our way back into a position of influence. But it will have to be under a different President and only after we've spread around a lot of cash (or the geopolitical equivalent thereof).
posted by darkstar at 7:27 AM on December 13, 2017 [5 favorites]


More winning.

@NatashaBertrand (BI)
Edit board for pro-government Turkish newspaper responds to McMaster speech last night: "Moving forward...the Turks will turn to Russia for cooperation when necessary."

Daily Sabah: McMaster deepens America’s isolation
posted by chris24 at 7:28 AM on December 13, 2017 [13 favorites]


Realpolitik being what it is, I suspect the US will be back in the role of mediator-at-large eventually.

You're far more optimistic than me on this. The pessimistic side of me thinks things are heading towards another 1967 but with opponents that are far better equipped.
posted by Talez at 7:37 AM on December 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


Did someone say realpolitik? Perhaps the consequence is that the US loses its leverage, previously used to amplify the instability of the region? It's a long shot I guess I'm feeling optimistic or stupid.
posted by idiopath at 7:47 AM on December 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


jason_steakums: I'm not really convinced that the Republicans don't want a government shutdown.

If you can't yet drown it in a bathtub, sticking it in the freezer is almost as good.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:48 AM on December 13, 2017


Turkey telling us to STFU was inevitable with Ergodan in power anyway. Just happened faster when their plan with Flynn was exposed. Now they've got no reason to play nice. Now the Jerusalem thing was a huge own goal almost certainly made in service of firing up evangelicals in Alabama to try to help Roy Moore win. Just one more thing for Mueller to add to the list of corrupt acts.
posted by wierdo at 7:49 AM on December 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


Realpolitik being what it is, I suspect the US will be back in the role of mediator-at-large eventually. We just have too much vested interest in the area and too much money we can throw around not to be able to weasel our way back into a position of influence. But it will have to be under a different President and only after we've spread around a lot of cash (or the geopolitical equivalent thereof).

Trump's an idiot. So much for his superior deal-making ability. He's killed the peace process while he's in office.

Every one of his predecessors understood that Israel and Palestine were under no legal obligation to accept any country as mediator if there were concerns about bias for one side or another. Not a difficult concept to comprehend, one would think.

This is why you don't listen to extremists on either side when you're negotiating a peace deal. Extremists don't want compromise. They want all the marbles.
posted by zarq at 7:49 AM on December 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


zarq Much as I agree about Trump, I'm a bit more iffy on the peace process being a process. Israel continues to make territorial claims that will render any future Palestinian state unable to function the PM continues to be a person who objects in principle to the two state soution, the Palestinian authorities continue to escalate both violence and claims of wanting the entire country and calls for genocide against Jews, and it doesn't look as if any progress towards peace has been made since the entire conflict started.

It's hard to derail a process that's already dead, and the peace process seems to be well and truly dead. Events have been sitting at an uneasy standoff with a lowish amount of overt violence, but it's hard to see things as moving towards an actual resolution except in the sense that as time, the siege and the slow erosion of Palestinian territory continues in a few hundred more years there will be "peace" because there simply won't be a Palestine at all.

So yeah, boo Trump. Things can always get worse and he seems to be making things worse. But things weren't headed towards peace before he fucked them up.
posted by sotonohito at 8:01 AM on December 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


Republicans on the House Judiciary are, right now, arguing at the Rosenstein interview that a bi-partisan investigation is basically impossible, and that any investigation with a Democrat as part of it is invalid.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:16 AM on December 13, 2017 [6 favorites]


Republicans on the House Judiciary are, right now, arguing at the Rosenstein interview that a bi-partisan investigation is basically impossible, and that any investigation with a Democrat as part of it is invalid declaring, once and for all, their refusal to govern in good faith*.

That also means that Matthew Yglesias' prediction that a Republican Congress will simply ignore Mueller's findings, not matter how damning or well-documented, is likely correct.

The Republican position is completely incompatible with the media's preferred he-said, she-said mode of stenography. The Republicans have just issued a challenge to the media that they must change their coverage and work for a change. I wonder how they will respond?

*Yes, McConnell's refusal to consider Garland's nomination was already such a declaration, but the media pretended not to notice. Emboldened, the Republicans are now making their bad faith impossible to ignore. Will the media try?
posted by Gelatin at 8:23 AM on December 13, 2017 [10 favorites]


Republicans on the House Judiciary are, right now, arguing at the Rosenstein interview that a bi-partisan investigation is basically impossible, and that any investigation with a Democrat as part of it is invalid.

Kenneth Starr and his whole team were Republicans. And quite partisan ones at that.
posted by chris24 at 8:26 AM on December 13, 2017 [11 favorites]


I made a new catchall thread!

Come and visit.
posted by Emmy Rae at 8:33 AM on December 13, 2017 [17 favorites]


Kenneth Starr and his whole team were Republicans. And quite partisan ones at that.

Yes but they were all philanderers so it balanced out the bias.
posted by Talez at 8:34 AM on December 13, 2017 [4 favorites]


Republicans on the House Judiciary are, right now, arguing at the Rosenstein interview that a bi-partisan investigation is basically impossible, and that any investigation with a Democrat as part of it is invalid.

Kenneth Starr and his whole team were Republicans. And quite partisan ones at that.

I think the whole structural premise of the Republican party since the Gingrich revolution is that they are really strong on morals and values and integrity and fiscal responsibility, with the important caveat that none of those strictures apply to them. They are permitted to violate every principle on their list so long as they work to secure corporate welfare, but their enemies cannot commit even the smallest peccadillo without suffering the hellfire and damnation onslaught. It is really amazing. THE RNC WENT ALL IN ON DONALD TRUMP AND ROY MOORE. This should be a millstone hung around their necks for generations.
posted by dis_integration at 8:34 AM on December 13, 2017 [18 favorites]


White Women Thank Themselves for Thanking Black Women Today (Reductress)
posted by salix at 8:35 AM on December 13, 2017 [18 favorites]


olease make a newthread
posted by agregoli at 8:39 AM on December 13, 2017


Agregoli, look just a few comments up. You’ll be delighted.
posted by greermahoney at 8:41 AM on December 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


There is one!
posted by Chrysostom at 8:42 AM on December 13, 2017 [3 favorites]


zarq Much as I agree about Trump, I'm a bit more iffy on the peace process being a process. Israel continues to make territorial claims that will render any future Palestinian state unable to function the PM continues to be a person who objects in principle to the two state soution, the Palestinian authorities continue to escalate both violence and claims of wanting the entire country and calls for genocide against Jews, and it doesn't look as if any progress towards peace has been made since the entire conflict started.

Well, they're not slaughtering each other wholesale at the moment.

I agree that's a really low bar.

You know the history as well as I do: the Israelis pulled out of Gaza and also disengaged from four northern West Bank settlements in 2005. That was progress at the time, but it didn't quite hold the way we all wanted it to. Under Hamas, Gaza almost immediately attacked Israel and the entire area became a war zone under Israeli chokehold. In the West Bank, Netanyahu's government and the Settlers have illegally occupied and built apartment buildings and homes on land that doesn't belong to them. Wholesale theft from the Palestinians.

But here's the thing: Most Israelis want peace. Repeated polls over the last 10 years show that around 3/4 of Israelis would support a peace deal if certain security guarantees were included -- either within the agreement or through a voted-on referendum. Polls of the Palestinians show a majority also want peace, but depending on when and who is doing the polling, the numbers have a somewhat wider range -- anywhere from 55% to 75%. Which is pretty understandable.

The two state solution has a bare majority of supporters in both camps, probably because they don't think it's realistically possible. But I would be willing to bet that if people started to realize it could happen, they'd get on board. (BTW, I hadn't seen those numbers before. The group most in favor of a two state solution? Israeli Arabs. Probably for a lot of reasons, one of which might be that they know from experience that living with Israeli Jews is possible. Who knows?)

Wanting peace could be a good foundation to work with. It's a sign that things aren't utterly hopeless. That most people in the region know the status quo isn't sustainable and would like to live as neighbors.

It's a start, at least. It's a reason for them both to come to the table.

It's hard to derail a process that's already dead, and the peace process seems to be well and truly dead.

For all our sakes, I'm really praying it isn't. But I see where you're coming from.

Events have been sitting at an uneasy standoff with a lowish amount of overt violence, but it's hard to see things as moving towards an actual resolution except in the sense that as time, the siege and the slow erosion of Palestinian territory continues in a few hundred more years there will be "peace" because there simply won't be a Palestine at all.

I hope like hell that's not the final outcome.

I honestly do not believe peace will be possible until Netanyahu and his administration leave office. If that happened, then I would have hope that saner parties can hammer out a fair agreement. But until then anything that is handed to Israel would have to be either given back or negotiated in a future agreement. Any upending of the current situation makes it all that much harder. Which is exactly what Trump did. He walked in and unilaterally gave Netanyahu exactly what he wanted.
posted by zarq at 8:49 AM on December 13, 2017 [7 favorites]


Let's not forget what happened last time there appeared to be a decent chance of peace between Israel and Palestine.
posted by wierdo at 9:05 AM on December 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


zarq I've been reading the Dictator's Handbook [1] and while I really hope you're right and I'm wrong, I fear that it seems the factional setup in Israel is such that either Netanyahu or people like him will be in charge for a long time.

The average Israeli supports peace, not not enough to make it a single issue and oust the groups that benefit by continuing the conflict. This means, basically, that the easiest path to power for any Israeli politician is to buy the support of the militants and religious fanatics by continuing the conflict.

They pay no electoral price for doing so, the outlay of money and power for continuing the conflict is close to zero, and it buys them the support of very organized and regular voters.

Much the same applies on the Palestinian side, buying off the militants and religious fanatics is a cheap and easy path to power. And while the Average Palestinian doesn't want to keep the war going any more than the Average Israeli does, the anti-war factions are neither sufficiently devoted to the cause, nor regular and valuable enough voters/supporters for their opposition to the war to matter.

I think a comparison to the US and guns is valid, the majority of people would like some gun control, but the anti-gun control groups are reliable voters, easy to buy off, and the pro-gun control people don't prioritize gun control enough for it to be a make or break issue.

Which means we're in a weird, unpleasant, and entirely common and predictable place where policies the majority support, policies which would be greatly beneficial, aren't enacted because the people who want those policies aren't critical to power (or don't make support for those policies necessary for their support).

[1] Which, despite the title, isn't. It's analyzing politics from a systems perspective.
posted by sotonohito at 9:29 AM on December 13, 2017


My take is that it's a little more complicated than that, although I agree with you that Netanyahu and the extremists are a big block to peace. But I don't think either side has negotiated in good faith in 20 years, if not more. The Olmert agreement would never have been approved by either the Israelis or Palestinians, for example.

It's hard to explain this well without going into excruciating detail, but unless the average Israeli is convinced the any given peace agreement with the Palestinians will give Israel them secure borders and a safe country in which they can raise their families, they're not going to go all-in on it.

That said, I'm super leery of derailing a Trump catch-all thread into I/P territory. I'm guessing the mods would not appreciate us for it. :) So I'm going to let this go unless we can reroute it back toward the topic at hand.
posted by zarq at 9:39 AM on December 13, 2017 [2 favorites]


* NEW THREAD *
posted by christopherious at 9:57 AM on December 13, 2017


i'm starting to think that with syria, yemen, qatar and other conflicts, and the efforts of various governments and others to exploit the situation, that the israel/palestine situation stopped being the middle east's no 1 problem a while ago

trump's wanting to move the u s embassy to jerusalem is clueless, but a minor matter in the current scheme of things
posted by pyramid termite at 10:00 AM on December 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


I know there's a new thred, but just to wrap up this digression:

Supergeeks paid hundreds of dollars a month for CompuServe and AOL. Rich supergeeks. People living on minimum wage didn't. (But they don't much say in this, of course.)

People living on minimum wage didn't have internet connections back then.
posted by rhizome at 12:01 PM on December 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


🍩🍿☕️👏™
posted by petebest at 8:32 PM on December 13, 2017 [1 favorite]


People living on minimum wage didn't have internet connections back then.

The internet is pretty much a requirement for livable life on minimum wage now. Like it or not living without it is a luxury lifestyle for cranks now, like not having a telephone .
posted by Artw at 8:37 PM on December 13, 2017 [8 favorites]


Not sure where to put this:



Morgan Spurlock is a drunken sexual harasser
posted by mecran01 at 6:36 AM on December 14, 2017 [2 favorites]


There's a sexual harassment thread. It's already got Spurlock covered.
posted by elsietheeel at 8:14 AM on December 14, 2017 [1 favorite]


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