If you could put down your phone and pay attention, that'd be great
May 3, 2018 6:25 AM Subscribe
There’s this assumption in our culture that with all the TV shows, and books, and websites, we’re all reading more and listening more, but I doubt that. Its become increasingly acceptable not to be listening (e.g. staring at your laptop or phone in meetings) and not be reading (skimming how many emails, or blog posts, in an hour). And I bet any culture, a team, a family, a country, where there is more real listening and real reading, people are happier and more successful at achieving things that matter. Why the world is a mess: a theory.
To be fair, this extremely cold take is eight years old... maybe it was a bit more spicy then? If only someone had listened...
posted by davros42 at 6:46 AM on May 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by davros42 at 6:46 AM on May 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
1. As acknowledged in the first paragraph, the world isn't a mess. Or rather, it is a mess, but it's the least messy it's ever been and it's getting less messy as time goes on.
2. "X situation is bad because X group doesn't behave like me" is the most banal assertion ever made, and most people grow out of making it at age 15.
posted by FakeFreyja at 7:00 AM on May 3, 2018 [11 favorites]
2. "X situation is bad because X group doesn't behave like me" is the most banal assertion ever made, and most people grow out of making it at age 15.
posted by FakeFreyja at 7:00 AM on May 3, 2018 [11 favorites]
I think Questlove just wrote/said (?) something similar, with emphasis on effect on creativity and the value of boredom, etc, but I don't know the details, because it only came up when I was skimming through a social media feed and I didn't click through.
o the irony.
posted by aesop at 7:05 AM on May 3, 2018 [6 favorites]
o the irony.
posted by aesop at 7:05 AM on May 3, 2018 [6 favorites]
Thanks for posting, it's a valuable topic. I would pay close attention to a multi-link post from various sources that included other materials that you have read that spoke to the same issue.
posted by otherchaz at 7:14 AM on May 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by otherchaz at 7:14 AM on May 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
People don’t read. I have this short blog post, called how to write a book, that basically says it’s work and like all work you just go and do it.So this guy admits that he writes stuff that doesn't have real substantial content, and then he doesn't like that people don't read his stuff with sufficient depth and understanding. If you genuinely feel like the world is a mess because this is how people engage, but then you continue writing a hot-takes blog, aren't you part of the problem?
posted by Sequence at 7:29 AM on May 3, 2018 [6 favorites]
So this guy admits that he writes stuff that doesn't have real substantial content, and then he doesn't like that people don't read his stuff with sufficient depth and understanding. If you genuinely feel like the world is a mess because this is how people engage, but then you continue writing a hot-takes blog, aren't you part of the problem?
Is there any reason why you omitted the next sentence from your pullquote, in which he states that even though his post is so pithy, he nevertheless has 425 comments from people asking him "how do I get out of doing the work that you just told me I need to do"? Or are you conveniently ignoring that part becuase it isn't fitting a preconceived point you're trying to make, one that you came up with because you didn't really read the whole thing he was saying?
All y'all may be thinking you're disputing his point, but from where I'm sitting many of you are actually proving it unawares.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:10 AM on May 3, 2018 [12 favorites]
Is there any reason why you omitted the next sentence from your pullquote, in which he states that even though his post is so pithy, he nevertheless has 425 comments from people asking him "how do I get out of doing the work that you just told me I need to do"? Or are you conveniently ignoring that part becuase it isn't fitting a preconceived point you're trying to make, one that you came up with because you didn't really read the whole thing he was saying?
All y'all may be thinking you're disputing his point, but from where I'm sitting many of you are actually proving it unawares.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:10 AM on May 3, 2018 [12 favorites]
I did in fact read the whole thing, including that. I'm not saying that people don't respond to his work that way. I'm saying that he creates work that's designed to be responded to that way. Someone who was doing deep and meaningful reading would not be reading his blog post on how to write a novel that doesn't have anything deep and meaningful in it. I didn't include that part because those people are still being what I'd think of as dumb, I just think his blog is predicated on getting those readers, and then he's trashing them.
posted by Sequence at 8:20 AM on May 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by Sequence at 8:20 AM on May 3, 2018 [7 favorites]
Whenever someone bemoans the way smartphones are isolating people, I cannot help but think of photographs such as these. Humans invented ways to occupy our idle minds, and ever after it's allegedly been "increasingly acceptable not to be listening." It's right up there with "kids these days."
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 8:30 AM on May 3, 2018 [17 favorites]
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 8:30 AM on May 3, 2018 [17 favorites]
Pulls up suspenders, straightens belt somewhat north of stomach: "Get offa my lawn!"
Damn kids and your new-fangled internubs!
posted by evilDoug at 8:43 AM on May 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
Damn kids and your new-fangled internubs!
posted by evilDoug at 8:43 AM on May 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
I think the argument that people are distracted by phones in public in a different way than the past is not really borne out by the evidence, as witnessed by all those photographs of every single person on a train reading a newspaper.
However, I do think that phones are uniquely habit-forming/feedback loop inducing, because they are designed to be.
posted by Automocar at 8:43 AM on May 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
However, I do think that phones are uniquely habit-forming/feedback loop inducing, because they are designed to be.
posted by Automocar at 8:43 AM on May 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
Sequence: Hmm. I took a different message from his pithiness with that short-and-sweet "how to write a book" post. I didn't take it as "designed to attract dumb readers so he can trash them" - rather, I took it as a comment on the question itself having a simple answer that didn't require further comment. Like - I'm trying to find the FPP about this, but there was a newspaper that did an opinion column that asked a simple question in the headline, then simply wrote "No, it isn't." and left the rest of the column inches completely blank. Or the "ultimate self-help book" Stephen Fry joked about wanting to write (illustrated here) - where all it would say is "stop feeling sorry for yourself and you will be happy."
Stephen Fry went on to say that it sounds so glib and simple, but it is actually kind of hard; it's just that that's the only way to go about being happy, he's saying, so there's nothing more to be said about it. Similarly, the fact of there being only one way to write a book, and that is to write, is pretty inescapable; and his short-and-sweet post is emphasizing that "this is really all there is to say about it."
So all the people looking for a way to get out of doing the one thing that they've been told you need to do, to my mind, are themselves bringing the laziness. (I wouldn't call it dumbness, personally .) They are the ones bringing the preconcieved idea to the author's post where "there's gotta be a trick to it", and then they are confronted with a post that says "no, there's no trick to it" and they say "but there's gotta be a trick to it, come on and tell me". I don't see his style as "drawing in those readers so he can poke fun", I see it as "making the truth as simple as possible to underscore its inescapability and people are still not trusting him".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:44 AM on May 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
Stephen Fry went on to say that it sounds so glib and simple, but it is actually kind of hard; it's just that that's the only way to go about being happy, he's saying, so there's nothing more to be said about it. Similarly, the fact of there being only one way to write a book, and that is to write, is pretty inescapable; and his short-and-sweet post is emphasizing that "this is really all there is to say about it."
So all the people looking for a way to get out of doing the one thing that they've been told you need to do, to my mind, are themselves bringing the laziness. (I wouldn't call it dumbness, personally .) They are the ones bringing the preconcieved idea to the author's post where "there's gotta be a trick to it", and then they are confronted with a post that says "no, there's no trick to it" and they say "but there's gotta be a trick to it, come on and tell me". I don't see his style as "drawing in those readers so he can poke fun", I see it as "making the truth as simple as possible to underscore its inescapability and people are still not trusting him".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:44 AM on May 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
People don’t listen. I don’t mean that their ears aren’t working, I mean it’s rare for person A to genuinely try to understand what the person B is trying to say. Instead they’re waiting for their chance to speak. And the fact that people aren’t listening makes the person speaking feel like they’re not being heard. So they talk louder and make more noise. But talking louder mostly makes people want to listen to you less, so the negative feedback loop ensues, leading to anger, rage, and rash acts ...BARTON
But Charlie - why me? Why -
CHARLIE
Because you DON'T LISTEN!
A tacky yellow fluid is dripping from Charlie's left ear and running down his cheek.
. . . Jesus, I'm dripping again.
He pulls some cotton from his pocket and plugs his ear.
(There are something interesting remarks on Barton Fink as a narrative about listening here.)
posted by octobersurprise at 8:46 AM on May 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
And I bet any culture, a team, a family, a country, where there is more real listening and real reading, people are happier and more successful at achieving things that matter.
Having lived through the 80s, I dispute this.
posted by ryanshepard at 9:05 AM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
Having lived through the 80s, I dispute this.
posted by ryanshepard at 9:05 AM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
Laziness is a better word for it, yeah. I mean, I think he's exploiting them here to say that what they're doing as readers is bad, but I don't think the whole blog exists to make fun of them--but it does seem to exist largely to attract them and get them to buy his books. Or sign up for his mailing list so that you can be encouraged to buy his books. None of what he wrote about writing a book is stuff I haven't read elsewhere; it wasn't a post that was written to be new information, or written better than elsewhere, or whatever. I don't think this guy's the only one who does it, mind, but... blogging as a practice of repeating and repackaging the stuff people have seen elsewhere, motivational speaking as a practice of repeating things people have heard a hundred times before? These are things that require an audience who isn't asking for depth and serious engagement.
If I was reading for depth and serious engagement, I just can't see how his blog would be on my top 100 things to read. If it felt like he was self-aware enough to say yeah, if everybody was doing this, I'd have to find a different way to sell books... I'd respect that well enough. I'm just bothered that he doesn't seem to be that self-aware.
posted by Sequence at 9:08 AM on May 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
If I was reading for depth and serious engagement, I just can't see how his blog would be on my top 100 things to read. If it felt like he was self-aware enough to say yeah, if everybody was doing this, I'd have to find a different way to sell books... I'd respect that well enough. I'm just bothered that he doesn't seem to be that self-aware.
posted by Sequence at 9:08 AM on May 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
In the past we were all distracted by the onions we wore on our belts, as was the style of the time.
posted by chavenet at 9:29 AM on May 3, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 9:29 AM on May 3, 2018 [9 favorites]
Ha! I counter your out-of-date opinon piece with a fact-based one from the year before: A New Literacy? (SLNewYorker) about how everyone is, in fact, writing more now than ever in history, even if they're not reading enough to keep the world from being "a mess".
(The original article on Andrea Lunsfords work mentioned in the NYer piece is called "CLIVE THOMPSON ON THE NEW LITERACY", which is just...OMG. Reading and Writing may come and go, but (apparently) misogyny is forever. >:[
posted by sexyrobot at 9:34 AM on May 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
(The original article on Andrea Lunsfords work mentioned in the NYer piece is called "CLIVE THOMPSON ON THE NEW LITERACY", which is just...OMG. Reading and Writing may come and go, but (apparently) misogyny is forever. >:[
posted by sexyrobot at 9:34 AM on May 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
If people read more carefully, even just a little, they’re be more likely to get what they want, as there’s a chance they’ll recognize they’re looking for the wrong thing: a dinosaur pancake on the moon.
I'm not sure what he meant by that last bit.
posted by AlSweigart at 9:40 AM on May 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure what he meant by that last bit.
posted by AlSweigart at 9:40 AM on May 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yawn.
Literally every advance in communication and technology has the same sort of people wringing their hands over it has ruined society. Randall Monroe has a collection of such quotes from 1871 through 1915 of people complaining that new thing X has ruined society.
It seems there's never a shortage of audience for such things.
posted by sotonohito at 10:10 AM on May 3, 2018 [10 favorites]
Literally every advance in communication and technology has the same sort of people wringing their hands over it has ruined society. Randall Monroe has a collection of such quotes from 1871 through 1915 of people complaining that new thing X has ruined society.
It seems there's never a shortage of audience for such things.
posted by sotonohito at 10:10 AM on May 3, 2018 [10 favorites]
I think the argument that people are distracted by phones in public in a different way
As noted, the post is from 2010, so it's a bit outdated. I think we can all agree that MANY more people now are looking at their "phones" as compared with 2010. Yes?
Also, in my own experience, many LESS people are reading books in public. YMMV. (To me, commuters were 50-50 books/phones in 2010, maybe; now it's 90-10 phones, at the least.)
(Instead of phones, let's just call them "tiny PCs," which they certainly are.)
The 3 major differences between these tiny PCs and former distractions like newspapers, magazines, Walk-men, billboards, or whatever) are:
1. These tiny PCs are incredibly DISCREET (and getting more so, e.g. smart watches.)
Think of a courtroom, where it's often against the rules to READ newspapers. How can they stop you from reading your tiny PC (aside from confiscating all devices on entry)?
Think of a classroom or recess yard. Tiny PCs can be stashed in a million places. If you think middle-schoolers walking around with tiny PCs are annoying, hang out with some THIRD graders for a while. (MY GOD.)
2. These tiny PCs are endless. You can't finish them. If you want, you could literally banish all the silent moments of your life by simply firing up and scrolling through your tiny PC. There's nothing else I can think of that compares.
3. Addiction factor: a) the blinking lights that respond to your touch create a very attractive feedback loop; b) most apps, sites people use are actively trying (very hard) to get you "addicted" to their content, game, images, etc.; c) you are almost required to have a tiny PC to function in modern society, and you are almost required (say, for parents) to carry it with you AT ALL TIMES. WTF?!
So, I dunno about talking and listening, other than yeah, listening is important, but if you think these phones/tiny PCs are "just another distraction," I think you are underestimating their impact.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:22 AM on May 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
As noted, the post is from 2010, so it's a bit outdated. I think we can all agree that MANY more people now are looking at their "phones" as compared with 2010. Yes?
Also, in my own experience, many LESS people are reading books in public. YMMV. (To me, commuters were 50-50 books/phones in 2010, maybe; now it's 90-10 phones, at the least.)
(Instead of phones, let's just call them "tiny PCs," which they certainly are.)
The 3 major differences between these tiny PCs and former distractions like newspapers, magazines, Walk-men, billboards, or whatever) are:
1. These tiny PCs are incredibly DISCREET (and getting more so, e.g. smart watches.)
Think of a courtroom, where it's often against the rules to READ newspapers. How can they stop you from reading your tiny PC (aside from confiscating all devices on entry)?
Think of a classroom or recess yard. Tiny PCs can be stashed in a million places. If you think middle-schoolers walking around with tiny PCs are annoying, hang out with some THIRD graders for a while. (MY GOD.)
2. These tiny PCs are endless. You can't finish them. If you want, you could literally banish all the silent moments of your life by simply firing up and scrolling through your tiny PC. There's nothing else I can think of that compares.
3. Addiction factor: a) the blinking lights that respond to your touch create a very attractive feedback loop; b) most apps, sites people use are actively trying (very hard) to get you "addicted" to their content, game, images, etc.; c) you are almost required to have a tiny PC to function in modern society, and you are almost required (say, for parents) to carry it with you AT ALL TIMES. WTF?!
So, I dunno about talking and listening, other than yeah, listening is important, but if you think these phones/tiny PCs are "just another distraction," I think you are underestimating their impact.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:22 AM on May 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
(To me, commuters were 50-50 books/phones in 2010, maybe; now it's 90-10 phones, at the least.)
I mean, they won't be printed-on-paper books, but those tiny PCs are a very handy way to carry a library around with you on your pocket. Someone staring at a screen might well be reading a novel, or the news.
posted by Dysk at 10:54 AM on May 3, 2018 [13 favorites]
I mean, they won't be printed-on-paper books, but those tiny PCs are a very handy way to carry a library around with you on your pocket. Someone staring at a screen might well be reading a novel, or the news.
posted by Dysk at 10:54 AM on May 3, 2018 [13 favorites]
mrgrimm, since nothing you wrote disagreed with me, I'm not sure why you quoted my post like we have different opinions? In my opinion two things are true:
1) People always looked for ways to distract themselves on public transportation, waiting rooms, etc.
2) This has no bearing on the argument that outside of those contexts phones can (and are designed to) create behavioral feedback loops that can be detrimental to mental health.
posted by Automocar at 11:24 AM on May 3, 2018
1) People always looked for ways to distract themselves on public transportation, waiting rooms, etc.
2) This has no bearing on the argument that outside of those contexts phones can (and are designed to) create behavioral feedback loops that can be detrimental to mental health.
posted by Automocar at 11:24 AM on May 3, 2018
I've yet to see a photo of a sidewalk full of people bumbling along with newspapers in front of their faces, occasionally stopping without warning to fill out an entry in the crossword puzzle...
posted by uosuaq at 11:40 AM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by uosuaq at 11:40 AM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
... But I’ve yet to see someone monetize listening, ...
This guy has never been in a good therapists office.
I'm a damn good listener. It is work, it's not effortless, but it is the only way to truly have connection with another human being. In my experience -- your mileage may vary. And he is absolutely correct in writing that people really respond to someone listening to them. And it's so much more important to listen deeply when the person I am listening to is in pain. That is when I find myself wanting to interrupt them, and it's surely not for them that I want to interrupt them; it's because it's painful for me to be with someone in pain, and it's an awful lot less painful for me to shut them up or shut them down, to "fix" them, spray out a bunch of bullshit fixes, anything to shut them the fuck up. Even if/when the "fix" is valid, there is a time and a place in a conversation where fixes could be put out there for the other person to contemplate, or for us to contemplate together, and that person is absolutely no longer alone and is awfully grateful that they aren't.
~~~~~
All of my life I've been a reader. And tv and/or radio has never been a thing for me, because I absolutely loathe commercials. (No. way. would I be on the internet with every ad blocker that there is; I've been with other people who don't have any ad-blocks, they sit like dumb stumps while all kinds of flashing, whirring flat-out demands that you buy this one toilet paper or printer -- never. Not I.) I have listened to a couple of non-commercial radio stations here in Austin, and a couple when I lived in Houston also, and I do donate to them.
I don't smoke pot anymore but I sure used to smoke it, and I'd catch a buzz and unplug my phone and climb right into whatever I was reading; reading while stoned is probably the best that pot has going for it (aside maybe from fucking while stoned but that's probably for a different thread than this one.) But pot is in my rear-view mirror, gone but not forgotten it seems.
Anyways. Reading. Ever since I stumbled across Audible I have loved their content. I have found that I *love* to be read to, particularly if it's a reading by the author of the book, because then I get to hear it read how they heard it when they wrote it, all of the shadings and intonations and inflections and pauses at the exact same length they heard the pause as they wrote it. Barbara Kingsolver reading "The Lacuna" is just fantastic. Luxury at a price I can afford.
Bad narration is Not Fun At All -- whoever it is who read "Catch 22" for Audible didn't feel at all like he understood the book, much less loved it as much as I do, or at all maybe.
So is that reading? It's absolutely not the same as reading a book, in that I can and do sometimes play Freecell, or I'm being read to as I'm driving down the road. Yet I'm still getting the content of the book.
posted by dancestoblue at 11:41 AM on May 3, 2018 [5 favorites]
This guy has never been in a good therapists office.
I'm a damn good listener. It is work, it's not effortless, but it is the only way to truly have connection with another human being. In my experience -- your mileage may vary. And he is absolutely correct in writing that people really respond to someone listening to them. And it's so much more important to listen deeply when the person I am listening to is in pain. That is when I find myself wanting to interrupt them, and it's surely not for them that I want to interrupt them; it's because it's painful for me to be with someone in pain, and it's an awful lot less painful for me to shut them up or shut them down, to "fix" them, spray out a bunch of bullshit fixes, anything to shut them the fuck up. Even if/when the "fix" is valid, there is a time and a place in a conversation where fixes could be put out there for the other person to contemplate, or for us to contemplate together, and that person is absolutely no longer alone and is awfully grateful that they aren't.
~~~~~
All of my life I've been a reader. And tv and/or radio has never been a thing for me, because I absolutely loathe commercials. (No. way. would I be on the internet with every ad blocker that there is; I've been with other people who don't have any ad-blocks, they sit like dumb stumps while all kinds of flashing, whirring flat-out demands that you buy this one toilet paper or printer -- never. Not I.) I have listened to a couple of non-commercial radio stations here in Austin, and a couple when I lived in Houston also, and I do donate to them.
I don't smoke pot anymore but I sure used to smoke it, and I'd catch a buzz and unplug my phone and climb right into whatever I was reading; reading while stoned is probably the best that pot has going for it (aside maybe from fucking while stoned but that's probably for a different thread than this one.) But pot is in my rear-view mirror, gone but not forgotten it seems.
Anyways. Reading. Ever since I stumbled across Audible I have loved their content. I have found that I *love* to be read to, particularly if it's a reading by the author of the book, because then I get to hear it read how they heard it when they wrote it, all of the shadings and intonations and inflections and pauses at the exact same length they heard the pause as they wrote it. Barbara Kingsolver reading "The Lacuna" is just fantastic. Luxury at a price I can afford.
Bad narration is Not Fun At All -- whoever it is who read "Catch 22" for Audible didn't feel at all like he understood the book, much less loved it as much as I do, or at all maybe.
So is that reading? It's absolutely not the same as reading a book, in that I can and do sometimes play Freecell, or I'm being read to as I'm driving down the road. Yet I'm still getting the content of the book.
posted by dancestoblue at 11:41 AM on May 3, 2018 [5 favorites]
I've yet to see a photo of a sidewalk full of people bumbling along with newspapers in front of their faces,
I see a lot of people writing our talking about people doing this with phones, but I've never actually seen it happen. Like, one individual on a pavement full of people, sure, but never more than that. Maybe your locale is the place where it does actually happen, but in general, this is a problem that seems largely mythological.
posted by Dysk at 12:35 PM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
I see a lot of people writing our talking about people doing this with phones, but I've never actually seen it happen. Like, one individual on a pavement full of people, sure, but never more than that. Maybe your locale is the place where it does actually happen, but in general, this is a problem that seems largely mythological.
posted by Dysk at 12:35 PM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
mrgrimm, since nothing you wrote disagreed with me, I'm not sure why you quoted my post like we have different opinions?
It wasn't meant to be a counterpoint. I quoted to agree and add my opinion. Sorry if I miscommunicated that.
reading while stoned is probably the best that pot has going for it
Now, I have a counterpoint. Reading is actually the one thing I cannot do well at all while stoned. Too distracted.
Playing a fun video game with a friend, or listening to great music, or having sex with an amazing lover while stoned are 3 of the best things pot has going for it.
BUT The BEST thing pot has going for it is medicine, imo, including for chronic pain, depression, alcoholism, glaucoma, MS, Parkinson’s disease, fibromyalgia, endometriosis, interstitial cystitis, etc. etc. (I definitely wanted to get my2c in there... it is effective medicine for many people.)
I see a lot of people writing our talking about people doing this with phones, but I've never actually seen it happen.
Check YouTube.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:52 PM on May 3, 2018
It wasn't meant to be a counterpoint. I quoted to agree and add my opinion. Sorry if I miscommunicated that.
reading while stoned is probably the best that pot has going for it
Now, I have a counterpoint. Reading is actually the one thing I cannot do well at all while stoned. Too distracted.
Playing a fun video game with a friend, or listening to great music, or having sex with an amazing lover while stoned are 3 of the best things pot has going for it.
BUT The BEST thing pot has going for it is medicine, imo, including for chronic pain, depression, alcoholism, glaucoma, MS, Parkinson’s disease, fibromyalgia, endometriosis, interstitial cystitis, etc. etc. (I definitely wanted to get my2c in there... it is effective medicine for many people.)
I see a lot of people writing our talking about people doing this with phones, but I've never actually seen it happen.
Check YouTube.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:52 PM on May 3, 2018
Check YouTube.
You can find videos of all kinds of weird behaviour on YouTube (not least bizarre driving and/or road accidents). Doesn't mean it's at all routine.
posted by Dysk at 2:59 PM on May 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
You can find videos of all kinds of weird behaviour on YouTube (not least bizarre driving and/or road accidents). Doesn't mean it's at all routine.
posted by Dysk at 2:59 PM on May 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
I see a lot of people writing our talking about people doing this with phones, but I've never actually seen it happen.
I see it all the time where I live (US west coast), and even more where I used to live (Seoul). I often see people crossing the street while looking at the phones.
Much worse, though, is the drivers. I take three 20 minute walks during a workday, along streets with medium levels of traffic. Some days I like to count the number of people looking at their phone while driving. On the days that I count, I've never seen less than ten people doing it on a single walk. And I'm not talking about glancing at a navigation app, I'm talking about holding the phone up with their off-hand, with the other on the wheel, while barreling down the street.
posted by dadaclonefly at 3:01 PM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
I see it all the time where I live (US west coast), and even more where I used to live (Seoul). I often see people crossing the street while looking at the phones.
Much worse, though, is the drivers. I take three 20 minute walks during a workday, along streets with medium levels of traffic. Some days I like to count the number of people looking at their phone while driving. On the days that I count, I've never seen less than ten people doing it on a single walk. And I'm not talking about glancing at a navigation app, I'm talking about holding the phone up with their off-hand, with the other on the wheel, while barreling down the street.
posted by dadaclonefly at 3:01 PM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
A bunch of these comments seem ready to pillory the author... If we're gonna do that, I'm all for pre-enlightenment! I brought rotten cabbage and everything!
posted by Nanukthedog at 3:32 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by Nanukthedog at 3:32 PM on May 3, 2018
The valuable thing I took away from this piece — and everyone is right that it isn’t a huge newsflash necessarily — is that listening well is hard, and good stuff happens when you do it, and bad stuff happens when you don’t.
Why do people not listen? I think it’s true that often people are waiting to say the thing they already had queued up in their brains to say, and when that’s true it doesn’t feel like a good conversation, it feels like waiting in line at the grocery store. But think about how hard it is to pull off a change in perspective in real time. You have to be able to store whatever idea you thought you had in case it is relevant later, turn a bunch of auditory signals into meaning, from the meaning try to identify points of confusion or disagreement, come up with a question or statement that will help you confirm that you’re getting closer to the heart of the matter, and repeat until you’re both satisfied (or you decide to give up) - and do it all at a pace that feels natural for a conversation. Many of us have to do this kind of problem solving in work environments - I loved the shout-out to therapists (I think it was dancestoblue?); I work in a collaborative, multidisciplinary science and so many of my work conversations are like this (when they go well!). It is so fun but also so hard, and it frankly amazes me that people can do this at all.
If I were a deity and I wanted to see more listening in the world, what would I do? I think I would try to make the hard brain work easier for people. I’d find some way to give them more common ground; I’d take away distractions, not just phone pings but also all the random worries that turn into brain pings in the middle of a conversation (“oh shit, did I remember to turn off the stove/file the TPS report/sign Kid up for aftercare?”); I’d slow the whole thing down so both parties could think stuff over without having to simultaneously process new sentences from other people. I’d also need to make sure my incentives were set up to prioritize harmony over domination.
posted by eirias at 3:44 PM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
Why do people not listen? I think it’s true that often people are waiting to say the thing they already had queued up in their brains to say, and when that’s true it doesn’t feel like a good conversation, it feels like waiting in line at the grocery store. But think about how hard it is to pull off a change in perspective in real time. You have to be able to store whatever idea you thought you had in case it is relevant later, turn a bunch of auditory signals into meaning, from the meaning try to identify points of confusion or disagreement, come up with a question or statement that will help you confirm that you’re getting closer to the heart of the matter, and repeat until you’re both satisfied (or you decide to give up) - and do it all at a pace that feels natural for a conversation. Many of us have to do this kind of problem solving in work environments - I loved the shout-out to therapists (I think it was dancestoblue?); I work in a collaborative, multidisciplinary science and so many of my work conversations are like this (when they go well!). It is so fun but also so hard, and it frankly amazes me that people can do this at all.
If I were a deity and I wanted to see more listening in the world, what would I do? I think I would try to make the hard brain work easier for people. I’d find some way to give them more common ground; I’d take away distractions, not just phone pings but also all the random worries that turn into brain pings in the middle of a conversation (“oh shit, did I remember to turn off the stove/file the TPS report/sign Kid up for aftercare?”); I’d slow the whole thing down so both parties could think stuff over without having to simultaneously process new sentences from other people. I’d also need to make sure my incentives were set up to prioritize harmony over domination.
posted by eirias at 3:44 PM on May 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
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posted by inconstant at 6:34 AM on May 3, 2018 [84 favorites]