They won’t do what you tell them
August 22, 2018 1:25 PM Subscribe
1998, the year of Korn and Kid Rock: When rap-rock and nü-metal seemed like the future
Primus sucks!
posted by JamesBay at 2:00 PM on August 22, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by JamesBay at 2:00 PM on August 22, 2018 [11 favorites]
I always thought "Subterranan Homesick Blues" would have worked vwey well as Run-D.M.C era rap....I wonder if anyone ever covered it in that style?
posted by thelonius at 2:04 PM on August 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 2:04 PM on August 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
Between this post and the post on the death of Superman, Artw is really doing a bangup job highlighting the cultural touchstones of my childhood that I’m a little bit embarrassed of.
I guess what I’m saying is I’m looking forward to your next post whether it’s about JNCO jeans, Star Trek the Next Generation or the Timothy Zahn Star Wars novel Heir to the Emperor
posted by midmarch snowman at 2:07 PM on August 22, 2018 [20 favorites]
I guess what I’m saying is I’m looking forward to your next post whether it’s about JNCO jeans, Star Trek the Next Generation or the Timothy Zahn Star Wars novel Heir to the Emperor
posted by midmarch snowman at 2:07 PM on August 22, 2018 [20 favorites]
/notes that more TNG is required.
posted by Artw at 2:21 PM on August 22, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:21 PM on August 22, 2018 [8 favorites]
That Romeo-growing-up-MFer was never the future of anything.
posted by praemunire at 2:30 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by praemunire at 2:30 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
A while back I encountered an article about Fred Durst (the lead singer of Limp Bizkit, a fact you already know if you’re in this thread I bet) which I can not currently find, which quoted him as saying something along the lines of “For years I looked out into the crowd and saw bullies and assholes who ruined my life.”
I hope I’m remembering the quote correctly. It struck me at the time as a perfect encapsulation of the whole genre.
posted by Caduceus at 2:39 PM on August 22, 2018 [20 favorites]
I hope I’m remembering the quote correctly. It struck me at the time as a perfect encapsulation of the whole genre.
posted by Caduceus at 2:39 PM on August 22, 2018 [20 favorites]
I feel like the title of this post unfairly maligns Rage Against the Machine.
posted by Slothrup at 2:52 PM on August 22, 2018 [36 favorites]
posted by Slothrup at 2:52 PM on August 22, 2018 [36 favorites]
When I heard "Bring the Noise" with Public Enemy and Anthrax, I thought it was going to be our rap-rock future.
Alas, when NuMetal rolled around it completely failed to live up to the dream. Mixing rap and metal has never again hit that high water mark.
posted by habeebtc at 2:57 PM on August 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
Alas, when NuMetal rolled around it completely failed to live up to the dream. Mixing rap and metal has never again hit that high water mark.
posted by habeebtc at 2:57 PM on August 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
my nephew would've been five or six in 1998. He really dug Korn.
posted by philip-random at 2:57 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 2:57 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
The article doesn't mention Sepultura's Roots, which was a significant catalyst for the sound of nu metal.
Ross Robinson has a lot to answer for.
posted by the duck by the oboe at 3:08 PM on August 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
Ross Robinson has a lot to answer for.
posted by the duck by the oboe at 3:08 PM on August 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
I was just nerding out about Korn with someone the other day, and he's 20ish and very enthusiastic about nu-metal and rap metal, so sees Korn and the like from hindsight and seeing it as roots of a lot of stuff he likes.
Which, yeah, I can get. He's really into RATM and similar angsty loud metal/industrial/darkwave stuff, and also a lot of really loud and nasty trap and such, so it makes sense from his shoes and life and stuff in ways I never bothered to entertain before.
I actually saw Korn when they were still... funk? They were some kind of funk-metal hybrid. A high school friend had been throwing concerts and shows around town, and one of his larger efforts was a sort of mini outdoor daytime rock festival at a community college campus probably in the 1992-93 era, and Korn was one of the bands.
I remember not being in to most of the music at the fest at all except for one very cool and pretty and a bit strange sort of hippie-pop hybrid jam band (Trip the Spring?) and not liking Korn and their weird funk-metal-punk schtick at all.
But I do remember them being extremely professional and hard working even back then. It was probably my first glimpse of what a "real working band" looked like, complete with their own roadies and full stage changeover plan and everything. That's something I didn't really see in the weird Legion Hall shoestring budget DIY punk shows at the time.
posted by loquacious at 3:18 PM on August 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
Which, yeah, I can get. He's really into RATM and similar angsty loud metal/industrial/darkwave stuff, and also a lot of really loud and nasty trap and such, so it makes sense from his shoes and life and stuff in ways I never bothered to entertain before.
I actually saw Korn when they were still... funk? They were some kind of funk-metal hybrid. A high school friend had been throwing concerts and shows around town, and one of his larger efforts was a sort of mini outdoor daytime rock festival at a community college campus probably in the 1992-93 era, and Korn was one of the bands.
I remember not being in to most of the music at the fest at all except for one very cool and pretty and a bit strange sort of hippie-pop hybrid jam band (Trip the Spring?) and not liking Korn and their weird funk-metal-punk schtick at all.
But I do remember them being extremely professional and hard working even back then. It was probably my first glimpse of what a "real working band" looked like, complete with their own roadies and full stage changeover plan and everything. That's something I didn't really see in the weird Legion Hall shoestring budget DIY punk shows at the time.
posted by loquacious at 3:18 PM on August 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
I can't stand Kid Rock. But sometimes, when intoxicated, I must blast BAWITDABA. It's a sickness, really.
posted by Splunge at 3:36 PM on August 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Splunge at 3:36 PM on August 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
Please refer to him by his proper title:
Child Rock.posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 3:40 PM on August 22, 2018 [22 favorites]
@Caduceus : Before Limp Bizkit emerged from a four-year hiatus with a series of shows last month in Europe, Fred Durst had to get over his hatred of a segment of his own fanbase. “I got abused a lot growing up,” Durst tells Rolling Stone. “For years I looked into the crowd and saw a bunch of bullies and assholes who tortured me and ruined my life. They were using my music as fuel to torture other people, even dressing like me. The music was being misinterpreted and the irony effected me and we stepped away.”
posted by booooooze at 3:50 PM on August 22, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by booooooze at 3:50 PM on August 22, 2018 [11 favorites]
> Primus sucks!
That's kind of harsh. They're the world's best Rush-style novelty band.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:50 PM on August 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
That's kind of harsh. They're the world's best Rush-style novelty band.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:50 PM on August 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
Mixing rap and metal has never again hit that high water mark.
Oh I don’t know, Judgment Night (soundtrack) 1993.
posted by Artw at 3:57 PM on August 22, 2018 [17 favorites]
Oh I don’t know, Judgment Night (soundtrack) 1993.
posted by Artw at 3:57 PM on August 22, 2018 [17 favorites]
He's really into RATM and similar angsty loud metal/industrial/darkwave stuff,
what
posted by mhoye at 3:59 PM on August 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
what
posted by mhoye at 3:59 PM on August 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
I have some burned CDs in my car that have an errant Korn song or two on them. I didn't even like them when they were a big deal, but for whatever reason, shit like ADIDAS puts me in a joyful mood, weird nostalgia wave.
posted by GoblinHoney at 4:00 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by GoblinHoney at 4:00 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
When I heard "Bring the Noise" with Public Enemy and Anthrax
"I'm The Man" was better. Also, King Missle (Detachable Penis) and Ministry exist, too.
The rap rock thing can be done well. Theres a ton of obscure 90s hip-hop that was messing with it. I had a roomie that was big into it, but I dont recall any specific artists.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 4:12 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
"I'm The Man" was better. Also, King Missle (Detachable Penis) and Ministry exist, too.
The rap rock thing can be done well. Theres a ton of obscure 90s hip-hop that was messing with it. I had a roomie that was big into it, but I dont recall any specific artists.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 4:12 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
The Card Cheat: > Primus sucks!
That's kind of harsh. They're the world's best Rush-style novelty band.
I thought that was Triumph.
posted by hanov3r at 4:18 PM on August 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
That's kind of harsh. They're the world's best Rush-style novelty band.
I thought that was Triumph.
posted by hanov3r at 4:18 PM on August 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
Faith No More's Epic still holds up.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:20 PM on August 22, 2018 [15 favorites]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:20 PM on August 22, 2018 [15 favorites]
> Oh I don’t know, Judgment Night (soundtrack) 1993.
Freak Momma was a high point for Mudhoney and Sir Mix-A-Lot.
"I just lost my street credibility, y'all!"
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:25 PM on August 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
Freak Momma was a high point for Mudhoney and Sir Mix-A-Lot.
"I just lost my street credibility, y'all!"
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:25 PM on August 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
The terrible “rap” song was absolutely a fixture of a lot 90s industrial albums, often serving as the worst-aged track on the album.
posted by Artw at 4:27 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 4:27 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Good thing Death Grips eventually came along to sort you lot out, though, right?
posted by runehog at 4:37 PM on August 22, 2018
posted by runehog at 4:37 PM on August 22, 2018
I guess what I’m saying is I’m looking forward to your next post whether it’s about JNCO jeans, Star Trek the Next Generation or the Timothy Zahn Star Wars novel Heir to the Emperor
That’s Heir to the Empire, thank you....
posted by Jorus at 4:47 PM on August 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
That’s Heir to the Empire, thank you....
posted by Jorus at 4:47 PM on August 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
You and I were meant to be
Archie Bunker, Frito-Lay
I was juuuust a little too old for Nü Metal, but I don’t honestly hate Korn, of these bands. The rest can suck eggs, though.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:06 PM on August 22, 2018
Archie Bunker, Frito-Lay
I was juuuust a little too old for Nü Metal, but I don’t honestly hate Korn, of these bands. The rest can suck eggs, though.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:06 PM on August 22, 2018
Wow, that was the end of dark era.
No, the bands and music were fine. But do you remember when the radio was just what you listened to? And getting sick of a song because it was on all the time?. I love that I can now find and listen to French djent and Japanese metalcore with a few clicks. Seems like the future of music now is everything, fused with everything.
(Side note, apparently lead singer of Korn Jonathan Davis' wife passed recently due to mental health issues. He's addressed his mental health issues and recovery before (tw: depression, anxiety, schizophrenia). And his plea for donations to the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation for his son is heartbreaking. He seems like a good person who's had a rough time.)
posted by cowcowgrasstree at 5:33 PM on August 22, 2018 [9 favorites]
No, the bands and music were fine. But do you remember when the radio was just what you listened to? And getting sick of a song because it was on all the time?. I love that I can now find and listen to French djent and Japanese metalcore with a few clicks. Seems like the future of music now is everything, fused with everything.
(Side note, apparently lead singer of Korn Jonathan Davis' wife passed recently due to mental health issues. He's addressed his mental health issues and recovery before (tw: depression, anxiety, schizophrenia). And his plea for donations to the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation for his son is heartbreaking. He seems like a good person who's had a rough time.)
posted by cowcowgrasstree at 5:33 PM on August 22, 2018 [9 favorites]
Hey, that's the year I stopped listening to the radio!
Not a coincidence.
posted by potrzebie at 5:38 PM on August 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
Not a coincidence.
posted by potrzebie at 5:38 PM on August 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
And by that point most of the rock radio stations were owned by big chains so they just all played the same handful of new bands.
It also felt like the record companies were flailing around trying to find the post-grunge sound and were afraid to try more than one rock subgenre at once, so we went from new music being all Eve 6/The Flys/Harvey Danger to all nu metal to all Strokes/White Stripes/Killers to all Three Doors Down/Nickelback in the course of a couple of years.
posted by smelendez at 5:44 PM on August 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
It also felt like the record companies were flailing around trying to find the post-grunge sound and were afraid to try more than one rock subgenre at once, so we went from new music being all Eve 6/The Flys/Harvey Danger to all nu metal to all Strokes/White Stripes/Killers to all Three Doors Down/Nickelback in the course of a couple of years.
posted by smelendez at 5:44 PM on August 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
Primus sucks!
I saw the Primus / Fishbone tour when it passed through Bloomington, IN in the fall of 1991.
In retrospect, even though it was early days, that may have been my personal peak 90s.
posted by ryanshepard at 5:46 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
I saw the Primus / Fishbone tour when it passed through Bloomington, IN in the fall of 1991.
In retrospect, even though it was early days, that may have been my personal peak 90s.
posted by ryanshepard at 5:46 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
That's kind of harsh. They're the world's best Rush-style novelty band.
posted by The Card Cheat
No, that's Rush.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 5:48 PM on August 22, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat
No, that's Rush.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 5:48 PM on August 22, 2018 [14 favorites]
Fishbone
Fishbone are getting the classic lineup back together (except for the guitarist who had them arrested for kidnapping after they tried to intervene in his membership in what they thought was a cult)
posted by thelonius at 5:50 PM on August 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
Fishbone are getting the classic lineup back together (except for the guitarist who had them arrested for kidnapping after they tried to intervene in his membership in what they thought was a cult)
posted by thelonius at 5:50 PM on August 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
I saw the Primus / Fishbone tour when it passed through Bloomington, IN in the fall of 1991.
I saw Fishbone in '89, headlining a local club. They played for almost 3 hours and it's still one of the very best gigs I have ever seen.
The other stuff this thread is about?
Not so much.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 6:23 PM on August 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
I saw Fishbone in '89, headlining a local club. They played for almost 3 hours and it's still one of the very best gigs I have ever seen.
The other stuff this thread is about?
Not so much.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 6:23 PM on August 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
I loved the Judgement Night soundtrack when I was in high-school. My jam: De La Soul and Teenage Fanclub. I'm not sure if it counts as rap-rock, but it's definitely not nü-metal. In retrospect, there's not a lot of Teenage Fanclub in that track.
posted by Drab_Parts at 6:38 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Drab_Parts at 6:38 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Right. Fishbone was a fusion or collage of styles from ska to metal, and should probably not even be mentioned alongside the cock schlock of the topic. The closest comparison is probably Bad Brains, but Fishbone had more legit musical chops.
posted by thelonius at 7:13 PM on August 22, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 7:13 PM on August 22, 2018 [7 favorites]
Just popping in to say, Aerosmith loved the hell out of Run DMC, to the point where they insisted on being a part of the track, and Run DMC was way more reserved and uncomprehending, until everyone got it, and it launched both groups' careers to the stratosphere.
"And Rick [Rubin] says: “They’ll never do it. Old white guys don’t get this rap thing."
An oral history.
Also, the Biohazard/Onyx track was the best damn thing on the Judgement Night soundtrack, and Dennis Leary makes a much better villain than hero.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:15 PM on August 22, 2018 [7 favorites]
"And Rick [Rubin] says: “They’ll never do it. Old white guys don’t get this rap thing."
An oral history.
Also, the Biohazard/Onyx track was the best damn thing on the Judgement Night soundtrack, and Dennis Leary makes a much better villain than hero.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:15 PM on August 22, 2018 [7 favorites]
Also, the Biohazard/Onyx track was the best damn thing on the Judgement Night soundtrack
This is a correct statement.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:19 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is a correct statement.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:19 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Wait, are these ghosts that made a specific effort to become pirates, or pirates that became ghosts after the fact?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:53 PM on August 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:53 PM on August 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
Primus sucks!
I suppose I can score some post-cool points since I was actually in the audience at the Berkeley Square when they recorded their live debut "Suck on This". (This was back were they were still being lumped with the glut of "punk-funk" bands polluting the Bay Area in the late 80's and before people started throwing Rush and Zappa comparisons at them). Can't say I realized that history was being made, but I didn't walk out either.
Actually managed to see a few bands at the B-Square before they became Famous. Saw the Goo Goo Dolls there on the "Hold Me Up" tour (far more rockin' then than probably their last couple of decades combined) and Faith No More (where I found myself wondering who that new singer was and what the fug happened to Chuck Mosley).
posted by gtrwolf at 8:51 PM on August 22, 2018
I suppose I can score some post-cool points since I was actually in the audience at the Berkeley Square when they recorded their live debut "Suck on This". (This was back were they were still being lumped with the glut of "punk-funk" bands polluting the Bay Area in the late 80's and before people started throwing Rush and Zappa comparisons at them). Can't say I realized that history was being made, but I didn't walk out either.
Actually managed to see a few bands at the B-Square before they became Famous. Saw the Goo Goo Dolls there on the "Hold Me Up" tour (far more rockin' then than probably their last couple of decades combined) and Faith No More (where I found myself wondering who that new singer was and what the fug happened to Chuck Mosley).
posted by gtrwolf at 8:51 PM on August 22, 2018
This certainly makes me nostalgic, since I was 14 in 1998, but it’s not in a good way. None of this music meant anything to me as a young woman. It explicitly set up women as, well, you know — bitches or status symbols. As problems to be solved. And the article just barely mentions the homophobia. As a queer kid...I had to pretend to like this shit in my small town to survive. But I knew it wasn’t for me. Fred Durst is right, the audience was often bullies and the kind of guys who used to get drunk at parties and do things like jump over bonfires to impress each other, then go on to rape girls who were too drunk to consent.
This quote from the article: They spoke to kids from low-income backgrounds and gave them the chance to both find commonality with others through their pain and revel in a gaudy, escapist fantasy...you know, fuck you. It spoke to MEN almost exclusively. I’m just flabbergasted that we’re still assuming that the male experience is the universal one. There’s not a single female artist mentioned in the article. Of course teenage girls were listening to this music but it was never for us. It was never meant to make us feel welcomed and seen. The music that did that wasn’t popular, even though it existed, and to not even recognize that this was the case for half of the population coming of age in 1998 is to be willfully ignorant.
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 8:52 PM on August 22, 2018 [29 favorites]
This quote from the article: They spoke to kids from low-income backgrounds and gave them the chance to both find commonality with others through their pain and revel in a gaudy, escapist fantasy...you know, fuck you. It spoke to MEN almost exclusively. I’m just flabbergasted that we’re still assuming that the male experience is the universal one. There’s not a single female artist mentioned in the article. Of course teenage girls were listening to this music but it was never for us. It was never meant to make us feel welcomed and seen. The music that did that wasn’t popular, even though it existed, and to not even recognize that this was the case for half of the population coming of age in 1998 is to be willfully ignorant.
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 8:52 PM on August 22, 2018 [29 favorites]
Primus' Claypool recalls making South Park theme
posted by Artw at 8:54 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 8:54 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
> Primus sucks!
That's kind of harsh. They're the world's best Rush-style novelty band.
You know it's a joke, right ?
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:00 PM on August 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
That's kind of harsh. They're the world's best Rush-style novelty band.
You know it's a joke, right ?
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:00 PM on August 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
I saw Primus recently. I don't actually know much about Primus (they were touring with Mastodon) but I enjoyed them in the way one does when one sees a live band that really has their shit together musically. I was kinda surprised that they played basically every one of their "hits" that I would recognize (didn't think they'd be that sort of band) along with a bunch of stuff from some new concept thing (thought they would be that sort of band).
posted by atoxyl at 9:07 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by atoxyl at 9:07 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Primus sucks!
That's as may be, but TISM are shit.
posted by flabdablet at 10:53 PM on August 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
That's as may be, but TISM are shit.
posted by flabdablet at 10:53 PM on August 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
I wonder how Linkin Park fits in as part of the nü-metal milieu.
posted by Apocryphon at 12:42 AM on August 23, 2018
posted by Apocryphon at 12:42 AM on August 23, 2018
No, wait. There was NEVER a time when those things seemed like they were the future of music. They were total novelty items amongst the pantheon of rock music. Country music, which seems to just be rock music from 20 years ago mostly, has been suffering a plague of rap-country lately. It will also go away.
Also, kudos for Pogo_Fuzzybutt for mentioning King Missile. I somehow connected them as overlapping in a Venn diagram with Laurie Anderson, to be honest. Also, Chris Xefos wore a Bear Magazine t-shirt in the CD booklet for their eponymous album which meant there's an entire wave of bearded burly gay men who know their work more than nearly anyone else.
(I was at the Lone Star Saloon in San Francisco at least twice when Xefos was spinning records for the bar* and he played Metallica's Enter Sandman followed by Patsy Cline singing Crazy, and it was remarkable to see an entire bar full of men with the majority of them looking down and singing softly to themselves. It was like A as a precursor to B had a chemical reaction in many dozens of souls suddenly all had the same Moment.)
*I don't say DJing (even though that's what it literally was] because he wasn't being DJ Xefos, he was just selecting the music instead of a jukebox.
posted by hippybear at 2:40 AM on August 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
Also, kudos for Pogo_Fuzzybutt for mentioning King Missile. I somehow connected them as overlapping in a Venn diagram with Laurie Anderson, to be honest. Also, Chris Xefos wore a Bear Magazine t-shirt in the CD booklet for their eponymous album which meant there's an entire wave of bearded burly gay men who know their work more than nearly anyone else.
(I was at the Lone Star Saloon in San Francisco at least twice when Xefos was spinning records for the bar* and he played Metallica's Enter Sandman followed by Patsy Cline singing Crazy, and it was remarkable to see an entire bar full of men with the majority of them looking down and singing softly to themselves. It was like A as a precursor to B had a chemical reaction in many dozens of souls suddenly all had the same Moment.)
*I don't say DJing (even though that's what it literally was] because he wasn't being DJ Xefos, he was just selecting the music instead of a jukebox.
posted by hippybear at 2:40 AM on August 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
I did see RATM open for U2 on their POPMart tour. I thought they were an interesting choice. I thought they were more about their message than their style, but that their style was required to deliver the RAGE required for their message. I never lumped them in with, like, rap-rock.
posted by hippybear at 2:42 AM on August 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 2:42 AM on August 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
None of this music meant anything to me as a young woman.
The last time I went to one of these haunts where they milk the nostalgia for this type of music (visting friends from college; it was their idea), I remember suddently feeling some sort of almost maternal tenderness for the clumsy pathos of it all, and I thought, lost little boys, why did I ever find that so intimidating?
And that's an interesting reaction, not so much for the misguided maternal instincts (I can shake myself out of that easily enough), but because it was the first time I actually acknowledged to myself that I _had_ found this intimidating once.
At the time, I wouldn't have phrased it like that. Alienating, yes (but I would have said that of any other genre of music as well; I just couldn't relate to any music at the time, not in the manner I felt I was supposed to), but intimidating?
I had this classmate who once told us, he found it sometimes scary, how aggressive some music could make him. I remember being a bit unduly awed (oh, a dark twisted soul), but I mostly found it endearing (at least he's self aware) and also somewhat melodramatic (how bad can it be?). But I did keep a respectful distance.
Well, I have a better idea now what it feels like to be scared of your own rage - I had to get a lot older to get there. I wouldn't downplay it like that nowadays.
posted by sohalt at 2:53 AM on August 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
The last time I went to one of these haunts where they milk the nostalgia for this type of music (visting friends from college; it was their idea), I remember suddently feeling some sort of almost maternal tenderness for the clumsy pathos of it all, and I thought, lost little boys, why did I ever find that so intimidating?
And that's an interesting reaction, not so much for the misguided maternal instincts (I can shake myself out of that easily enough), but because it was the first time I actually acknowledged to myself that I _had_ found this intimidating once.
At the time, I wouldn't have phrased it like that. Alienating, yes (but I would have said that of any other genre of music as well; I just couldn't relate to any music at the time, not in the manner I felt I was supposed to), but intimidating?
I had this classmate who once told us, he found it sometimes scary, how aggressive some music could make him. I remember being a bit unduly awed (oh, a dark twisted soul), but I mostly found it endearing (at least he's self aware) and also somewhat melodramatic (how bad can it be?). But I did keep a respectful distance.
Well, I have a better idea now what it feels like to be scared of your own rage - I had to get a lot older to get there. I wouldn't downplay it like that nowadays.
posted by sohalt at 2:53 AM on August 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
Honestly one of the miracles of music survival from the 90s is Pearl Jam which started out as SO FUCKING ANGRY AND ALIENATED and managed to grow up into adult musicians who write adult songs from an adult perspective. They do still get full of rage (the Riot Act album, which is basically raging against Bush with little lighthouses of hope along the way, comes to mind), but they've been MUCH more interesting since the release of their third album, thematically.
posted by hippybear at 3:00 AM on August 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 3:00 AM on August 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
Oh man, as a queer Latino teenager in the 90s, rap-rock & nu-metal was a signal to run for cover.
posted by LMGM at 4:43 AM on August 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by LMGM at 4:43 AM on August 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
I did know RATM, who didn't? But the same as what happened with rock, psychedelia, glam, metal, new wave, grunge, New Jack Swing, and rap, at some point it all gets watered down. By 1997, I'd figured that out, so aside from "Nookie" (which was seemingly EVERYWHERE) and that Kid Rock song "Baw"-whatever, I didn't otherwise listen to this genre back in the day. I assumed I wasn't the target audience for this music. After all, I was almost 30! Too old!
When I did see dudes dressed like Fred Durst walking around, I gave them a wide berth and crossed the street. They usually turned out to be the sort of people who didn't like my black self. It's a shame that the sort of people who bullied Durst as a kid came to emulate him. What happened at Woodstock in 1999 pissed me off. And as a black person, I wondered what would've happened if it was a rap festival and kids wilded out like that, what would've happened?
In the late 90s I caught up on a lot of the music I'd missed in my 70s-80s childhood and adolescence, and listened to so-called "backpacker" rap, Soul Coughing, Britpop like Blur, and indie like Radiohead, Grandaddy, Rainer Maria, stuff like that.
posted by droplet at 6:33 AM on August 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
When I did see dudes dressed like Fred Durst walking around, I gave them a wide berth and crossed the street. They usually turned out to be the sort of people who didn't like my black self. It's a shame that the sort of people who bullied Durst as a kid came to emulate him. What happened at Woodstock in 1999 pissed me off. And as a black person, I wondered what would've happened if it was a rap festival and kids wilded out like that, what would've happened?
In the late 90s I caught up on a lot of the music I'd missed in my 70s-80s childhood and adolescence, and listened to so-called "backpacker" rap, Soul Coughing, Britpop like Blur, and indie like Radiohead, Grandaddy, Rainer Maria, stuff like that.
posted by droplet at 6:33 AM on August 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
Y'all... I just came back to this thread to see what people had posted about this since yesterday, and all the Judgement Night sountrack posts got me all early-high-school nostalgic this morning.
I thought I was so ahead of my time.
posted by rp at 7:05 AM on August 23, 2018
I thought I was so ahead of my time.
posted by rp at 7:05 AM on August 23, 2018
Saw Primus last year, they played the entire Brown Album in order. I got in free cause my cousin did their backline.
It was glorious.
posted by signal at 8:00 AM on August 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
It was glorious.
posted by signal at 8:00 AM on August 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
I actually saw Korn when they were still... funk? They were some kind of funk-metal hybrid.
It can happen the other way, too. Sugar Ray started as a nü metal-ish band, then had a surprise hit on their second album that took them in a more alt-pop direction. (Similar sort of trajectory to Red Hot Chili Peppers, come to think of it, although on a much smaller scale.)
posted by me3dia at 8:22 AM on August 23, 2018
It can happen the other way, too. Sugar Ray started as a nü metal-ish band, then had a surprise hit on their second album that took them in a more alt-pop direction. (Similar sort of trajectory to Red Hot Chili Peppers, come to think of it, although on a much smaller scale.)
posted by me3dia at 8:22 AM on August 23, 2018
Also, in my opinion the best song on Judgment Night is "Another Body Murdered." Boo-Ya Tribe didn't get the respect they deserved.
posted by me3dia at 8:27 AM on August 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by me3dia at 8:27 AM on August 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
I don't know anything about Korn, and all I know about Kid Rock (aside from being an awful enough person that he toured the Trump White House with Ted Nugent and Sarah Palin) is "Cowboy" and "All Summer Long", aka "That Mashup of 'Werewolves of London' and 'Sweet Home Alabama' That You Thought Was Done by John Mellencamp the First Time You Heard It"; the former is the sort of bullshit, white-boy-talking-about-pimping-like-he-knows-shit-about-hustling bullshit that is probably what got him fired from his first record company for being too Vanilla Ice-ish. Oh, and "Picture", his duet with Sheryl Crow, aka "I Still Think About You When I'm Fucking Other People." You may have figured out that I'm not a fan.
And, yes, please don't bring Fishbone into this. "Everyday Sunshine" is still astonishing, and one of my favorite least-likely-host-and-musical-guest pairings of SNL is when they were on with Jeremy Irons, who swapped jackets with, I think, Walter Kibby during the end credits.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:20 AM on August 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
And, yes, please don't bring Fishbone into this. "Everyday Sunshine" is still astonishing, and one of my favorite least-likely-host-and-musical-guest pairings of SNL is when they were on with Jeremy Irons, who swapped jackets with, I think, Walter Kibby during the end credits.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:20 AM on August 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
I was never a Korn fan, but I did enjoy their Scooby-Doo adventure on South Park.
When Kid Rock pivoted to country, it seemed like a lot of rap-rock fans did too. I recall a bunch of the guys in my high school who were Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park fans were listening to country in their 20s. I think once you get past adolescence, country music speaks more to the struggles and aspirations of the white American male. I mean that sincerely, I'm not trying to sound sarcastic or dismissive.
Though it does remind me of an Onion headline from 2003: "Teen Admits Parents Were Right About Fred Durst"
A while back I encountered an article about Fred Durst [...] which quoted him as saying something along the lines of “For years I looked out into the crowd and saw bullies and assholes who ruined my life.”
That's interesting because a few years back, he got slammed in a lot of places for getting a tattoo of Kurt Cobain. Now I wonder if he did that because he identified with Kurt's contempt for a lot of Nirvana's fans.
posted by riruro at 10:22 AM on August 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
When Kid Rock pivoted to country, it seemed like a lot of rap-rock fans did too. I recall a bunch of the guys in my high school who were Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park fans were listening to country in their 20s. I think once you get past adolescence, country music speaks more to the struggles and aspirations of the white American male. I mean that sincerely, I'm not trying to sound sarcastic or dismissive.
Though it does remind me of an Onion headline from 2003: "Teen Admits Parents Were Right About Fred Durst"
A while back I encountered an article about Fred Durst [...] which quoted him as saying something along the lines of “For years I looked out into the crowd and saw bullies and assholes who ruined my life.”
That's interesting because a few years back, he got slammed in a lot of places for getting a tattoo of Kurt Cobain. Now I wonder if he did that because he identified with Kurt's contempt for a lot of Nirvana's fans.
posted by riruro at 10:22 AM on August 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
That Mashup of 'Werewolves of London' and 'Sweet Home Alabama'
really should have tossed in "Little Miss Can't Be Wrong" too
/turns up suck knob
posted by thelonius at 10:26 AM on August 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
really should have tossed in "Little Miss Can't Be Wrong" too
/turns up suck knob
posted by thelonius at 10:26 AM on August 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
1998? That was 11 years after Anthrax simultaneously created and killed rap metal with I'm the Man.
posted by Liquidwolf at 10:49 AM on August 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Liquidwolf at 10:49 AM on August 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
which quoted him as saying something along the lines of “For years I looked out into the crowd and saw bullies and assholes who ruined my life.”
One of his biggest albums was called "Chocolate starfish and the hotdog flavored water". He was just pissed because the mirror he looked at showed him a picture of himself. At some point, well past the George Michael Faith cover, the 'irony' stops being ironic and becomes the truth.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:56 AM on August 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
One of his biggest albums was called "Chocolate starfish and the hotdog flavored water". He was just pissed because the mirror he looked at showed him a picture of himself. At some point, well past the George Michael Faith cover, the 'irony' stops being ironic and becomes the truth.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:56 AM on August 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
From the Walk This Way oral history upthread:
posted by vibratory manner of working at 2:23 PM on August 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
Steven TylerThis is kind of a great mental image.
I loved rap. I used to go looking for drugs on Ninth Avenue and I would go over to midtown or downtown and there would be guys on the corner selling cassettes of their music. I’d give them a buck, two bucks, and that was the beginning of me noticing what was going on in New York at the time.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 2:23 PM on August 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
"The nineties will go down in history as one of those nasty little backwaters when bad things happened to dumb people and things went wrong and nobody cared and nobody laughed and fear was the governing ethic." (Hunter S. Thompson)
posted by philip-random at 5:03 PM on August 23, 2018
posted by philip-random at 5:03 PM on August 23, 2018
Nü-metal was necessary to live so that the garage rock revival could exist at its death, at least for a moment. And for that, its existence is justified.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:55 PM on August 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Apocryphon at 11:55 PM on August 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
Probably nothing that will happen today will make me as happy as finding out that "Walk This Way" (the title and chorus) came from Young Frankenstein.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:53 AM on August 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:53 AM on August 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
Now that this thread is over I can quietly admit that I never listened to any Kid Rock and only recently found out that people weren't all just talking about Kid from Kid&Play.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 8:08 AM on August 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 8:08 AM on August 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
That Onion article is... painfully relatable. Although for me the turning point was listening to Beastie Boys Fight for Your Right (to Party), and thinking "wow, I feel for this dude's parents." And that's when I knew I was old.
Somewhat in the same vein as Durst, apparently Yauch and Mike D intended the song to be "ironic", but that is absolutely not the way it was received by their fans at the time it was popular (at least, in my experience anyway). And I wonder how much of that irony was really intentional, and how much of it is a way of trying to roll back something they now realize was pretty awful but commercially successful.
Anyway... irony is hard, and I'm honestly pretty suspicious, now and in retrospect, of artists hiding behind "irony" as a defense. If you do something ironically, but the majority of people who see you doing it (fans, listeners, observers, whatever) don't appreciate the irony and read it as earnestly meant, then you weren't being ironic. You were just being a dick. The intent to be ironic is irrelevant; irony exists and is created, like humor, on the receiving end. Sometimes, like a comedian misreading the audience and bombing, it's going to misfire and we should cut artists some slack during their process, but that slack should probably be inversely proportional to their experience and audience size.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:50 AM on August 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
Somewhat in the same vein as Durst, apparently Yauch and Mike D intended the song to be "ironic", but that is absolutely not the way it was received by their fans at the time it was popular (at least, in my experience anyway). And I wonder how much of that irony was really intentional, and how much of it is a way of trying to roll back something they now realize was pretty awful but commercially successful.
Anyway... irony is hard, and I'm honestly pretty suspicious, now and in retrospect, of artists hiding behind "irony" as a defense. If you do something ironically, but the majority of people who see you doing it (fans, listeners, observers, whatever) don't appreciate the irony and read it as earnestly meant, then you weren't being ironic. You were just being a dick. The intent to be ironic is irrelevant; irony exists and is created, like humor, on the receiving end. Sometimes, like a comedian misreading the audience and bombing, it's going to misfire and we should cut artists some slack during their process, but that slack should probably be inversely proportional to their experience and audience size.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:50 AM on August 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
Vise le top!, 1992.
Also, OK Computer is what the "future" sounded like.
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 8:36 PM on August 28, 2018
Also, OK Computer is what the "future" sounded like.
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 8:36 PM on August 28, 2018
Once upon a time I didn't see KoЯn opening for Primus because me and my mates confused the main show start time for the opening act's.
Still not sure if that was a good or a bad thing.
posted by farlukar at 12:07 PM on September 14, 2018
Still not sure if that was a good or a bad thing.
posted by farlukar at 12:07 PM on September 14, 2018
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posted by signal at 1:49 PM on August 22, 2018