Moon Base Alpha Beta
September 21, 2018 10:40 PM Subscribe
Japanese companies plan to build moon colonies - "In collaboration with NASA, the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) has announced plans for the construction of the first human colony on the moon, a little more than a decade in the future."
also btw...
The next giant leap: space beyond mankind - "Astronomer Royal Martin Rees on the big questions of space exploration in the age of artificial intelligence."
Satellite captures space junk for the first time - "Millions of pieces of junk are whirling around in orbit, the result of 50 years of space travel and few regulations to keep space clean. At orbital speeds, even a small fleck of paint colliding with a satellite can cause critical damage."
also btw...
The next giant leap: space beyond mankind - "Astronomer Royal Martin Rees on the big questions of space exploration in the age of artificial intelligence."
An especially propitious site is the Shackleton crater, at the lunar south pole, 21 kilometres across and with a rim four kilometres high. Because of the crater’s location, its rim is always in sunlight and so escapes the extreme monthly temperature contrasts experienced on the rest of the Moon’s surface. Moreover, there may be a lot of ice in the crater’s perpetually dark interior — crucial, of course, for sustaining a “colony”.and in other space news...
Satellite captures space junk for the first time - "Millions of pieces of junk are whirling around in orbit, the result of 50 years of space travel and few regulations to keep space clean. At orbital speeds, even a small fleck of paint colliding with a satellite can cause critical damage."
Companies. Building communities on the moon. CAN WE START TAKING HEINLEIN AS A WARNING RATHER THAN A HOW-TO GUIDE? The Moon doesn't gotta be a Harsh Mistress! It could be real comfortable and productive public/private partnership, where billions are made and ordinary lives are made easy and free.
Over-under for the first mentally ill Lunar inhabitant spaced for being incapable of paying their air-fees in these Company Towns? (And because it's a private, profit-generating entity, don't you dare call it a tax. You just have to pay it in Company Scrip, and uh-oh! Little bit of a loss in the ol' stock price this quarter, that scrip pays a quarter less this week. Pony up more if you want to breath, our shareholders need their space-yachts ever more opulent.)
NO. How about no? No is good for me. I want governments accountable to their constituents and law building moon communities, not Company Town paying Company Scrip and murdering Union organizers in SPAAAAAAACE.
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:10 PM on September 21, 2018 [18 favorites]
Over-under for the first mentally ill Lunar inhabitant spaced for being incapable of paying their air-fees in these Company Towns? (And because it's a private, profit-generating entity, don't you dare call it a tax. You just have to pay it in Company Scrip, and uh-oh! Little bit of a loss in the ol' stock price this quarter, that scrip pays a quarter less this week. Pony up more if you want to breath, our shareholders need their space-yachts ever more opulent.)
NO. How about no? No is good for me. I want governments accountable to their constituents and law building moon communities, not Company Town paying Company Scrip and murdering Union organizers in SPAAAAAAACE.
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:10 PM on September 21, 2018 [18 favorites]
This wil not happen.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 12:09 AM on September 22, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by GallonOfAlan at 12:09 AM on September 22, 2018 [9 favorites]
1 kilogram JAXA landers? What is this? A colony for ants?!?
posted by fairmettle at 12:15 AM on September 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by fairmettle at 12:15 AM on September 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
The company wants to lay a belt of solar panels 400 kilometers wide around the equator of the moon and then relay the constant supply of energy to "receiving stations" on Earth by way of lasers or microwave transmission.
Modest goals.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:18 AM on September 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
Modest goals.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:18 AM on September 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
This is one of the many proposed projects from Shimizu Corporation, a huge and influential construction company but also one with some nutty and out there ideas.
posted by zardoz at 12:33 AM on September 22, 2018
posted by zardoz at 12:33 AM on September 22, 2018
This wil not happen.
Eh. At this point it's a crap shoot whether we will destroy the earth before a few people escape to reproduce elsewhere. I hope it does happen because we are getting pretty close to totally fucked here on earth.
posted by fshgrl at 1:10 AM on September 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Eh. At this point it's a crap shoot whether we will destroy the earth before a few people escape to reproduce elsewhere. I hope it does happen because we are getting pretty close to totally fucked here on earth.
posted by fshgrl at 1:10 AM on September 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
The Moon will happen when someone finds something there well worth shipping home. Then they'll strip-mine the place and rain asteroids of that shit down on Earth with a railgun.
But they won't go there with colonies of people. They'll send robots that don't eat or drink or breathe or sleep or expect to ever go home. Maybe they'll send one or two people if they need people in situ as legal representatives of their corporations or governments, but people otherwise cost more than they're worth. Space is for robots.
posted by pracowity at 1:14 AM on September 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
But they won't go there with colonies of people. They'll send robots that don't eat or drink or breathe or sleep or expect to ever go home. Maybe they'll send one or two people if they need people in situ as legal representatives of their corporations or governments, but people otherwise cost more than they're worth. Space is for robots.
posted by pracowity at 1:14 AM on September 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
It's all fun and games till the nuclear waste explodes and then the moon is thrown out of earth's orbit...
posted by wittgenstein at 3:13 AM on September 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by wittgenstein at 3:13 AM on September 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
At this point it's a crap shoot whether we will destroy the earth before a few people escape to reproduce elsewhere. I hope it does happen because we are getting pretty close to totally fucked here on earth.
As a counterpoint: if we're unable to sustain a few hundred years of industrialism without destroying our species, even within an ecosystem as bountiful and resilient as that of the Earth, maybe reproducing elsewhere isn't really a great goal for humanity. If we're really that shit at being a species with advanced technology I'm not sure what the point of us expanding out into space is.
Also, if less people were fixated on us surviving Earth, and more of us fixated on Earth surviving us, we'd all have a better chance. This isn't Arrakis, for god's sake. Surviving really isn't that hard.
And, as others have pointed out, this isn't going to happen. Total Jetsons fantasy.
posted by howfar at 4:51 AM on September 22, 2018 [11 favorites]
As a counterpoint: if we're unable to sustain a few hundred years of industrialism without destroying our species, even within an ecosystem as bountiful and resilient as that of the Earth, maybe reproducing elsewhere isn't really a great goal for humanity. If we're really that shit at being a species with advanced technology I'm not sure what the point of us expanding out into space is.
Also, if less people were fixated on us surviving Earth, and more of us fixated on Earth surviving us, we'd all have a better chance. This isn't Arrakis, for god's sake. Surviving really isn't that hard.
And, as others have pointed out, this isn't going to happen. Total Jetsons fantasy.
posted by howfar at 4:51 AM on September 22, 2018 [11 favorites]
To be fair, if *anyone* has figured out space toilets, its the Japanese.
posted by Nanukthedog at 4:59 AM on September 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Nanukthedog at 4:59 AM on September 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
The space race in the 50/60's was not based on optimizing costs so the cost/kilogram was of little interest. SpaceX and the others are building efficient vehicles where the cost of a person to the moon will approach a first class international seat. Not the supplies/air/water/food but the body weight.
Next step: vast resources, NO pollution.
We know how to do most of this, food is being grown in the space station. The return on investment will dwarf anything in human history (the inventor of fire forgot to vest his stock or burned it in an early test:-)
One water asteroid that is managed or a process for distilling water from the moon's poles and the core resource that's too heavy to lift off the planet changes everything.
Will we see space colonies in the next 20 years, maybe not but maybe more than the doubters suggest. In the same time span as the industrial revolution, along with CRISPR and friends tweaking the folks that want to escape, really the SF authors barely scratch the possibilities.
posted by sammyo at 6:42 AM on September 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Next step: vast resources, NO pollution.
We know how to do most of this, food is being grown in the space station. The return on investment will dwarf anything in human history (the inventor of fire forgot to vest his stock or burned it in an early test:-)
One water asteroid that is managed or a process for distilling water from the moon's poles and the core resource that's too heavy to lift off the planet changes everything.
Will we see space colonies in the next 20 years, maybe not but maybe more than the doubters suggest. In the same time span as the industrial revolution, along with CRISPR and friends tweaking the folks that want to escape, really the SF authors barely scratch the possibilities.
posted by sammyo at 6:42 AM on September 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
We have squandered the moral right to filth other worlds with our wars, our greed, our racism and our noxious effluvia. May we die out here, in the embrace of our first and final home.
posted by adamgreenfield at 6:50 AM on September 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by adamgreenfield at 6:50 AM on September 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
Came in to see how long it would be until the "since Japanese X are the shit, this will be great too" comment appeared. Anyway:
The company wants to lay a belt of solar panels 400 kilometers wide around the equator of the moon and then relay the constant supply of energy to "receiving stations" on Earth by way of lasers or microwave transmission.
Or you could, you know, just put them on the many, many roofs that, inexplicably, don't have them here. I mean, have you seen how sunny it gets here? Oh wait, the nuclear industry. Because that tech never, ever goes wrong.
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 7:05 AM on September 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
The company wants to lay a belt of solar panels 400 kilometers wide around the equator of the moon and then relay the constant supply of energy to "receiving stations" on Earth by way of lasers or microwave transmission.
Or you could, you know, just put them on the many, many roofs that, inexplicably, don't have them here. I mean, have you seen how sunny it gets here? Oh wait, the nuclear industry. Because that tech never, ever goes wrong.
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 7:05 AM on September 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
> a belt of solar panels 400 kilometers wide around the equator of the moon
As long as they paint it red I see no problem with this.
posted by glonous keming at 7:34 AM on September 22, 2018
As long as they paint it red I see no problem with this.
posted by glonous keming at 7:34 AM on September 22, 2018
THIS is pretty much how Gundam starts. But since there are like half a dozen different universes for Gundam, it's either going to end in one of the following ways:
1) The space colonies rebel and invade Earth with mecha in a WWII-style combat
2) The space colonies rebel and invade earth with mecha, but they only send like five really really really ridiculously good looking young men to pilot them.
3) The space colonies rebel and weaponize the colonies by throwing them at Earth, creating a post-apoc scenario
4) GIANT ROBOT FIGHTING TOURNAMENT
posted by FJT at 7:39 AM on September 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
1) The space colonies rebel and invade Earth with mecha in a WWII-style combat
2) The space colonies rebel and invade earth with mecha, but they only send like five really really really ridiculously good looking young men to pilot them.
3) The space colonies rebel and weaponize the colonies by throwing them at Earth, creating a post-apoc scenario
4) GIANT ROBOT FIGHTING TOURNAMENT
posted by FJT at 7:39 AM on September 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
Why can't we have solar panels in the Sahara?
posted by iamck at 8:09 AM on September 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by iamck at 8:09 AM on September 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
Why can't we have solar panels in the Sahara?
interesting question!
1) sand dunes blowing around?
2) relative cost of upkeep and maintenance in a harsh and remote environment?
3) ???
posted by supermedusa at 11:37 AM on September 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
interesting question!
1) sand dunes blowing around?
2) relative cost of upkeep and maintenance in a harsh and remote environment?
3) ???
posted by supermedusa at 11:37 AM on September 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
We know how to do most of this, food is being grown in the space station. The return on investment will dwarf anything in human history
The amount of handwaving in this statement is practically enough to get you off the ground by itself. A few small experiments and some design studies is still nowhere near being able to do long-term colonies. Likewise the idea of getting resources from the moon or asteroids more cheaply than from Earth, or setting up a manufacturing base, is ludicrous. We're not going to see this in our lifetimes,.
For all that, I like the idea of setting up an experimental moon base to do research. For a start, seeing how our physiology responds to a long-term 1-g environment will be very valuable.
posted by happyroach at 11:55 AM on September 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
The amount of handwaving in this statement is practically enough to get you off the ground by itself. A few small experiments and some design studies is still nowhere near being able to do long-term colonies. Likewise the idea of getting resources from the moon or asteroids more cheaply than from Earth, or setting up a manufacturing base, is ludicrous. We're not going to see this in our lifetimes,.
For all that, I like the idea of setting up an experimental moon base to do research. For a start, seeing how our physiology responds to a long-term 1-g environment will be very valuable.
posted by happyroach at 11:55 AM on September 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm part of a long term 1-g study right here on earth!
posted by some loser at 1:02 PM on September 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by some loser at 1:02 PM on September 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
Solar in the Sahara seems to be a thing, with at least one system running at night using a phase change salt.
posted by unearthed at 2:20 PM on September 22, 2018
posted by unearthed at 2:20 PM on September 22, 2018
Solar power is great, but not so great that it's cost-effective to build a whole lot of it hundreds of miles from where the demand for power is at. Better to build it on the moon, right where all the space-enthusiast billionaires will need it.
posted by sfenders at 3:08 PM on September 22, 2018
posted by sfenders at 3:08 PM on September 22, 2018
I am convinced that every big Japanese construction company has a Department of Crazy Ideas. Which, I have to admit, I kind of love.
posted by adamrice at 5:15 PM on September 22, 2018
posted by adamrice at 5:15 PM on September 22, 2018
I've been reading up on traditional Japanese architecture, so when I read about a Japanese moonbase I immediately imagined precisely-fitted interlocking beams supporting delicate sliding screens.
It would look spectacular, too, if they can do something about the air pressure.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:19 PM on September 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
It would look spectacular, too, if they can do something about the air pressure.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:19 PM on September 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
What if they took an onion approach to it: instead of one resilient bulkhead holding in the pressure, it's hundreds of layers of delicate paper screens?
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 5:43 PM on September 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 5:43 PM on September 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Pretty cool Kurzgesagt video, How We Could Build a Moon Base TODAY
posted by kirkaracha at 6:12 PM on September 22, 2018
posted by kirkaracha at 6:12 PM on September 22, 2018
Why can't we have solar panels in the Sahara?
The question I've been asking since the 70's is, "Why can't we have solar panels in Geosynchronous Orbit?"
posted by mikelieman at 7:21 PM on September 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
The question I've been asking since the 70's is, "Why can't we have solar panels in Geosynchronous Orbit?"
posted by mikelieman at 7:21 PM on September 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
No matter the scenario, we or nature will never "destroy the earth" to the extent that living in space is easier.
posted by Drexen at 1:19 PM on September 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Drexen at 1:19 PM on September 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
Oh there absolutely will be space mining, it's just that there is no sense in sending raw materials down from orbit. Those resources will be used either for off world construction or the production of relatively high value goods for export to Earth.
You don't go find an asteroid, drop the stuff all the way to Earth's surface, build stuff with it, and then launch it again. That makes no damn sense. You produce stuff on the Moon. Why the Moon and not on a space station? Gravity. Why the Moon and not Earth? Gravity. We can build a space elevator on the Moon with existing materials and technology. We cannot build one on Earth, which makes shipping excessively costly.
posted by wierdo at 11:58 PM on September 23, 2018
You don't go find an asteroid, drop the stuff all the way to Earth's surface, build stuff with it, and then launch it again. That makes no damn sense. You produce stuff on the Moon. Why the Moon and not on a space station? Gravity. Why the Moon and not Earth? Gravity. We can build a space elevator on the Moon with existing materials and technology. We cannot build one on Earth, which makes shipping excessively costly.
posted by wierdo at 11:58 PM on September 23, 2018
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posted by NoxAeternum at 10:43 PM on September 21, 2018