Happy 60th Birthday
January 1, 2019 11:57 AM Subscribe
Cuban Revolution, armed uprising in Cuba that overthrew the government of Fulgencio Batista on January 1, 1959. The revolution’s leader, Fidel Castro, went on to rule Cuba from 1959 to 2008
It’s not the 60th anniversary?
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:17 PM on January 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:17 PM on January 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
Documented deaths and disappearances 1959-2018 from Cuba archive.org
posted by Ideefixe at 12:32 PM on January 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by Ideefixe at 12:32 PM on January 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
Is there an equivalent site for deaths and disappearances while Batista was in charge?
posted by thatwhichfalls at 1:16 PM on January 1, 2019 [19 favorites]
posted by thatwhichfalls at 1:16 PM on January 1, 2019 [19 favorites]
Gulags for homosexuals - so progressive!
posted by Middlemarch at 1:59 PM on January 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Middlemarch at 1:59 PM on January 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
Americans: support murderous corporatist dictator who sells off his own country, precipitating an inevitable revolution attended by the characteristic evils of communist dictatorship. Argue self- righteously about which was worse.
Film at 11.
posted by klanawa at 2:50 PM on January 1, 2019 [16 favorites]
Film at 11.
posted by klanawa at 2:50 PM on January 1, 2019 [16 favorites]
Argue self- righteously about which was worse.
I won't be doing that. But I sure as hell won't be celebrating the replacement of one tyrant by another.
None of the above is an option, and a good one, and there's a nation just to the west of Cuba that happens to embody it.
posted by ocschwar at 3:07 PM on January 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
I won't be doing that. But I sure as hell won't be celebrating the replacement of one tyrant by another.
None of the above is an option, and a good one, and there's a nation just to the west of Cuba that happens to embody it.
posted by ocschwar at 3:07 PM on January 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
But I sure as hell won't be celebrating the replacement of one tyrant by another.
Well, uh, it'd be moot if America hadn't effectively created both of them. Nobody's forcing you to celebrate anything.
posted by klanawa at 3:54 PM on January 1, 2019 [10 favorites]
Well, uh, it'd be moot if America hadn't effectively created both of them. Nobody's forcing you to celebrate anything.
posted by klanawa at 3:54 PM on January 1, 2019 [10 favorites]
"In a 1993 interview with a former Nicaraguan Government official, Tomás Borge, Fidel Castro declared that he opposed policies against LGBT people as he considered homosexuality to be a natural tendency that should be respected. The same year, a series of sex education workshops were run throughout the country carrying the message that homophobia was a prejudice.[9] That same year, the Government lifted its ban on allowing LGBT persons from serving openly in the military. "
And we lifted our ban, when?
It's nice and all to act as if Cuba was/is repressing gay people, but it's not as if we weren't committing them to psychiatric wards/"conversion therapy" well into that time period. Maybe not gulags. I'm not defending that stance, wrong is wrong. Cuba had it wrong. But Cuba changed a lot quicker than the US on that, so maybe the liberal attack on Cuban rights (on that specific front) is not the hill you wanna die on?
This is not a defense of Cuba, Cuba did and still does have a lot of issues. But let's not act all high and mighty about gay rights (especially historically). I'm sure there is still probably a LOT of homophobia rampant in their society (I admit to not looking it up, but just guessing, it's still probably prevalent, the same way it is in our society). I'm not trying to Tu Quoque or tankie-pologize it. It was wrong, absolutely. But when it comes to learning and growing it sure looks to me like the dirty commies got it right quicker than the USA.
That said, it's funny how so many US Communists are "brocialists" and demand no mention or discussion of anything but economic issues. Anything that talks of social justice in a large segment of US Socialist organizing is oftentimes ranted against. This I think is being worked against, but it is a struggle to this day. Since there is no single leading/authoritarian voice in US Socialist movements, there can be no grand pronouncement stating that "Yes, Civil Rights/Social Rights matter in addition to Capitalist Exploitation"... So you don't hear much about it because well. Nobody REPORTS on actual socialist activities these days, but also, there is no singular "Party" to declare a change (at least legally).
Would the US version of Communism (had it succeeded) had moved to legalize and support homosexuality as Cuba has? I don't know. Maybe it would have done so faster than it did if it were Communist, maybe it would still have been a laggard.
posted by symbioid at 4:16 PM on January 1, 2019 [12 favorites]
And we lifted our ban, when?
It's nice and all to act as if Cuba was/is repressing gay people, but it's not as if we weren't committing them to psychiatric wards/"conversion therapy" well into that time period. Maybe not gulags. I'm not defending that stance, wrong is wrong. Cuba had it wrong. But Cuba changed a lot quicker than the US on that, so maybe the liberal attack on Cuban rights (on that specific front) is not the hill you wanna die on?
This is not a defense of Cuba, Cuba did and still does have a lot of issues. But let's not act all high and mighty about gay rights (especially historically). I'm sure there is still probably a LOT of homophobia rampant in their society (I admit to not looking it up, but just guessing, it's still probably prevalent, the same way it is in our society). I'm not trying to Tu Quoque or tankie-pologize it. It was wrong, absolutely. But when it comes to learning and growing it sure looks to me like the dirty commies got it right quicker than the USA.
That said, it's funny how so many US Communists are "brocialists" and demand no mention or discussion of anything but economic issues. Anything that talks of social justice in a large segment of US Socialist organizing is oftentimes ranted against. This I think is being worked against, but it is a struggle to this day. Since there is no single leading/authoritarian voice in US Socialist movements, there can be no grand pronouncement stating that "Yes, Civil Rights/Social Rights matter in addition to Capitalist Exploitation"... So you don't hear much about it because well. Nobody REPORTS on actual socialist activities these days, but also, there is no singular "Party" to declare a change (at least legally).
Would the US version of Communism (had it succeeded) had moved to legalize and support homosexuality as Cuba has? I don't know. Maybe it would have done so faster than it did if it were Communist, maybe it would still have been a laggard.
posted by symbioid at 4:16 PM on January 1, 2019 [12 favorites]
It is one of the disasters of history that I am not, right now, relaxing while enjoying the Cuban shore. I cannot understand why we don't enjoy the same relationship with Cuba that we do with Mexico. (I'm excepting Trump and his stupid wall, of course.) Damn, Cuba should be the hotspot of the Caribbean. The Cubans are such great people!
posted by SPrintF at 5:13 PM on January 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 5:13 PM on January 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
In the nineties, when I still lived in the UK, Cuba was becoming a very popular holiday destination. "Think of it, a Caribbean nation with no Americans!" It was an easy sell.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 5:52 PM on January 1, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by thatwhichfalls at 5:52 PM on January 1, 2019 [8 favorites]
Batista’s death toll.
Genocide under Castro.
posted by Ideefixe at 6:00 PM on January 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
Genocide under Castro.
posted by Ideefixe at 6:00 PM on January 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
What a fun game to play!
posted by mr_roboto at 6:02 PM on January 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by mr_roboto at 6:02 PM on January 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
Sorry symbolic, but that’s classic “whataboutery.” it’s nonsense.
It’s nice to act as if Cuba was repressing gay people? What? Did you even read the article? They were murdered by the communist regime. It’s a historic fact.
You’re attempting to defend the indefensible. It shows.
posted by Middlemarch at 9:05 PM on January 1, 2019
It’s nice to act as if Cuba was repressing gay people? What? Did you even read the article? They were murdered by the communist regime. It’s a historic fact.
You’re attempting to defend the indefensible. It shows.
posted by Middlemarch at 9:05 PM on January 1, 2019
I'm gonna have to point out that Ideefixe's numbers are both likely skewed and biased. The Batista numbers are presented as 20k and the Castro numbers as 87k, but the Batista numbers come from an anti-Revolutionary source, the Havana Times, and the Castro numbers come from a source which conflates documented violent deaths with estimated losses due to refugees fleeing and lost at sea, "Balseros," (8k or so and an estimated 78k) and lumps balsero deaths with direct violence under the argument that the deaths of said refugees qualify as genocidal. It's an argument, I'll give it that.
What could be more Cuban than an argument?
(My wife and her family are Cuban and we and my parents visited in 2016. We'll be back.)
posted by mwhybark at 9:27 PM on January 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
What could be more Cuban than an argument?
(My wife and her family are Cuban and we and my parents visited in 2016. We'll be back.)
posted by mwhybark at 9:27 PM on January 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
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posted by ocschwar at 12:10 PM on January 1, 2019 [6 favorites]