Will electronic music ever break in the US?
June 20, 2002 11:47 AM Subscribe
Will electronic music ever break in the US? DJs don't speak. Most don't produce their own full-length albums. When they perform, their only motions are precise hand movements and brief shuffles to record bins that are obscured from view and confined to a 5-foot square area. There are no David Lee Roth jump kicks, synchronized boy-band dances, Michael Jackson moonwalks or Janet Jackson ass-shaking.
For American consumers, this is a problem.
er - since when does the mtvalternapop40 set have anything to do with music? oh, he wants to homogenize and dilute yet another genre into the money making music meatgrinder in order to make it "legitimate" so he can make money from high paying mainstream magazines reviewing music that he used to like before it became so popular.
posted by badstone at 11:56 AM on June 20, 2002
posted by badstone at 11:56 AM on June 20, 2002
DJ sets are about dancing yourself, instead of watching someone do it for you. It's a different kind of leisure activity, but there's a place for it. The question is how big club culture will become in the US, not whether it will replace live rock'n'roll shows.
posted by liam at 12:04 PM on June 20, 2002
posted by liam at 12:04 PM on June 20, 2002
Well the unfortunately bands/djs don't have the appeal to me like Death In Vegas did or Roni Size.
I'm a musician and my little group of other musician would sit around a kitchen table and talk about a bunch of the new music we would get from Future Music Mag. CDs. The stuff on those circa 1996 would just rock our pathetic little rocker ass. But nothing that was imported onto our airwaves was as good. Chemical Brothers and Progedy IMHP sucked the life out of it...plus electronic music broke as Ska was trying to break too....it was all tmi for the American people to digest.
posted by mkelley at 12:06 PM on June 20, 2002
I'm a musician and my little group of other musician would sit around a kitchen table and talk about a bunch of the new music we would get from Future Music Mag. CDs. The stuff on those circa 1996 would just rock our pathetic little rocker ass. But nothing that was imported onto our airwaves was as good. Chemical Brothers and Progedy IMHP sucked the life out of it...plus electronic music broke as Ska was trying to break too....it was all tmi for the American people to digest.
posted by mkelley at 12:06 PM on June 20, 2002
electronica is the soccer of music?
posted by zoopraxiscope at 12:08 PM on June 20, 2002
posted by zoopraxiscope at 12:08 PM on June 20, 2002
For American consumers, this is a problem.
Way to generalize.
posted by ColdChef at 12:10 PM on June 20, 2002
Way to generalize.
posted by ColdChef at 12:10 PM on June 20, 2002
Here's a few possible reasons for the relative lack of popularity in the US. They're all completely guesses on my part, and as such may be completely off base:
1. The phrase "electronic music" makes people think of Vangelis.
2. To many listeners, a substantial portion of the current crop is indistinguishable from the giant pants honk-honk wokka-wokka techno of the late 80s.
3. The impenatrably obtuse micro-genrefication doesn't make it very approachable.
4. To many listeners, it does not sound appealing. (See 2)
5. Homophobia and the general perception of dance music as gay music.
6. The lack of a personality or personification to tie to the music.
posted by majick at 12:12 PM on June 20, 2002
1. The phrase "electronic music" makes people think of Vangelis.
2. To many listeners, a substantial portion of the current crop is indistinguishable from the giant pants honk-honk wokka-wokka techno of the late 80s.
3. The impenatrably obtuse micro-genrefication doesn't make it very approachable.
4. To many listeners, it does not sound appealing. (See 2)
5. Homophobia and the general perception of dance music as gay music.
6. The lack of a personality or personification to tie to the music.
posted by majick at 12:12 PM on June 20, 2002
Am I imagining things or was that quite an arrogant FPP?
posted by websavvy at 12:22 PM on June 20, 2002
posted by websavvy at 12:22 PM on June 20, 2002
I think it's a little less arrogant than some of the perceptions so far, but certainly seems to be predicated on the fact that Americans' tastes don't line up well with what electronic music has to offer.
"No moonwalks... for American consumers, this is a problem."
It's not so much arrogant as cynical, if you ask me, but it's a fine line.
posted by majick at 12:25 PM on June 20, 2002
"No moonwalks... for American consumers, this is a problem."
It's not so much arrogant as cynical, if you ask me, but it's a fine line.
posted by majick at 12:25 PM on June 20, 2002
The phrase "electronic music" makes people think of Vangelis.
Makes me think of irrelevant artnoise only grad students listen to. Same thing, I guess.
I just gave a link to the very first guy to stiff me on my very first freelance web design gig. Who says there's no such thing as forgiveness in the world?
posted by ook at 12:26 PM on June 20, 2002
Makes me think of irrelevant artnoise only grad students listen to. Same thing, I guess.
I just gave a link to the very first guy to stiff me on my very first freelance web design gig. Who says there's no such thing as forgiveness in the world?
posted by ook at 12:26 PM on June 20, 2002
Am I imagining things or was that quite an arrogant FPP?
Everything after the link is quoting from the article, guys.
posted by rory at 12:31 PM on June 20, 2002
Everything after the link is quoting from the article, guys.
posted by rory at 12:31 PM on June 20, 2002
Am I imagining things or was that quite an arrogant FPP?
It is in fact a direct quote from the link. Of course, there are lots of great American electronic artists - like Carl Craig - and lots of really lame European electronic music. That said, I think the quote is a pretty accurate capsule summary of the article's thesis.
posted by fellorwaspushed at 12:33 PM on June 20, 2002
It is in fact a direct quote from the link. Of course, there are lots of great American electronic artists - like Carl Craig - and lots of really lame European electronic music. That said, I think the quote is a pretty accurate capsule summary of the article's thesis.
posted by fellorwaspushed at 12:33 PM on June 20, 2002
*Yawn* This article is a rehash of old news that's been talked about for years. I hope that the author's book is more interesting. (And yes, I am biased because I edited an electronic music magazine during the late '90s and wrote several articles similar to this one five years ago, but still: if you can't think of something new to say about dance music's lack of commercial success in the US, just shut up.)
posted by arielmeadow at 12:35 PM on June 20, 2002
posted by arielmeadow at 12:35 PM on June 20, 2002
5. Homophobia and the general perception of dance music as gay music.
Should I laugh or cry? Hmm, can't decide.
posted by iain at 12:38 PM on June 20, 2002
Should I laugh or cry? Hmm, can't decide.
posted by iain at 12:38 PM on June 20, 2002
I still think that the main thing it comes down to is accessibility. I enjoy all kinds of electronic music, from almost completely abstract, to some of the downright poppy stuff (which is what is being snapped up by different companies for commercials and movies). I enjoy the hell out of groups like Autechre and Matmos, but I'll also be the first one to admit that the majority of people don't and probably won't. The fact remains that it's easier to hum along with stuff like Moby or shake your booty to stuff like Daft Punk, and that's just fine by me. I'd still much rather hear either of those than another Nu-MetAL group (although the new Moby is pretty bad...).
There are a lot of groups who are sort of blurring the line between pop and electronic, though, and they're the ones I've been getting the most excited about lately. The Notwist has an amazing new album ("Neon Golden") out that mixes electronic with organic in lovely ways, and Mum just released "Finally We Are No One," their second great album in as many years. Scott Herren (Prefuse 73, Savath And Savalas, and Delarosa And Asora) is also one of the most talented individuals working right now. Okay, I'll stop going on. If anyone else wants my opinion, I'm easy enough to find...
posted by almostcool at 12:42 PM on June 20, 2002
There are a lot of groups who are sort of blurring the line between pop and electronic, though, and they're the ones I've been getting the most excited about lately. The Notwist has an amazing new album ("Neon Golden") out that mixes electronic with organic in lovely ways, and Mum just released "Finally We Are No One," their second great album in as many years. Scott Herren (Prefuse 73, Savath And Savalas, and Delarosa And Asora) is also one of the most talented individuals working right now. Okay, I'll stop going on. If anyone else wants my opinion, I'm easy enough to find...
posted by almostcool at 12:42 PM on June 20, 2002
A lot of electronica isn't just "pick up and go". Amon Tobin, Boards of Canada, Kruder & Dormeister... they all require the listener to sit down and "get into it".
I'm also regretting putting the aforementioned artists in the "electronic music" genre. It's really a bad name. There is so many varying degrees insice the realm of electronic music. Downbeat jazz, acid jazz, trance, dance, etc. comparing Tosca to Paul Van Dyke is like comparing Ella Fitzgerald to Elvis Presley.
posted by geoff. at 12:42 PM on June 20, 2002
I'm also regretting putting the aforementioned artists in the "electronic music" genre. It's really a bad name. There is so many varying degrees insice the realm of electronic music. Downbeat jazz, acid jazz, trance, dance, etc. comparing Tosca to Paul Van Dyke is like comparing Ella Fitzgerald to Elvis Presley.
posted by geoff. at 12:42 PM on June 20, 2002
7. The entire concept of "electronic music" always makes me think of "Sprockets".
posted by yhbc at 12:48 PM on June 20, 2002
posted by yhbc at 12:48 PM on June 20, 2002
Weird stuff, but here in Latin America electronic music is becoming quite popular, despite our own music being very instrumental and based on human contact (think salsa).
I still see DJs as technicians. Cold, not instrumental, not engaging with people's daily situations. Plus, not everyone can become a DJ, it's a very expensive club. It's still beyond me how can this music be so popular in a country where virtually none can afford special turntables and imported vinyl from Germany.
posted by papalotl at 12:48 PM on June 20, 2002
I still see DJs as technicians. Cold, not instrumental, not engaging with people's daily situations. Plus, not everyone can become a DJ, it's a very expensive club. It's still beyond me how can this music be so popular in a country where virtually none can afford special turntables and imported vinyl from Germany.
posted by papalotl at 12:48 PM on June 20, 2002
"Electronic music" is a meaningless way to categorize music -- it's actually worse than a "music with guitars" category because of the wider creative spectrum.
The other extreme is annoying too. Micro-genrefication (good term, majick) is most evident at MP3.com, where new categories are born every week.
I kid you not, the band Rotator has the following genres: Techno, UK Garage, Alternative General, House, Filtered/Disco House, West Coast, Hard Dance, Brit Pop, Disco House, Deep House, Breakbeat/Breaks, Hard Trance, Big Beat, Electronica, Hip Hop, and Vocal House. (And they're not from the UK, but San Diego.)
Meanwhile, they label Black Tape for a Blue Girl's new album entriely as "goth rock." Go figure.
posted by Foosnark at 12:49 PM on June 20, 2002
The other extreme is annoying too. Micro-genrefication (good term, majick) is most evident at MP3.com, where new categories are born every week.
I kid you not, the band Rotator has the following genres: Techno, UK Garage, Alternative General, House, Filtered/Disco House, West Coast, Hard Dance, Brit Pop, Disco House, Deep House, Breakbeat/Breaks, Hard Trance, Big Beat, Electronica, Hip Hop, and Vocal House. (And they're not from the UK, but San Diego.)
Meanwhile, they label Black Tape for a Blue Girl's new album entriely as "goth rock." Go figure.
posted by Foosnark at 12:49 PM on June 20, 2002
Man, I love electronicmusic , I was all set to get down with this article, but then somewhere in the middle, the author just veers way of into this HUGE anti-america as individualist rant. Sad.
Anyway, I agree with geoff, electronica is such a huge range of music, euro-pop,dance,house,jungle, trance, it's hard to quantify it. Myself, I lean towards euro-pop and dance.
One thing that this article doesn't really touch on, is how hard it is to find DJ mixes 'legally'. So many times I hear a song on the radio (C89.5), and the only way for me to get a copy of that song, is by downloading from KaZaa or Gnutella.
posted by patrickje at 12:53 PM on June 20, 2002
Anyway, I agree with geoff, electronica is such a huge range of music, euro-pop,dance,house,jungle, trance, it's hard to quantify it. Myself, I lean towards euro-pop and dance.
One thing that this article doesn't really touch on, is how hard it is to find DJ mixes 'legally'. So many times I hear a song on the radio (C89.5), and the only way for me to get a copy of that song, is by downloading from KaZaa or Gnutella.
posted by patrickje at 12:53 PM on June 20, 2002
Thanks for setting me straight on that quote. While I certainly agree that the American music-buying public as a whole has the same attention span and love of shiny objects as my cat, I still consider it slightly rude to point it out to them as if they were a nation of musical slow learners. Maybe I would have understood better if the quote were within quotes.
posted by websavvy at 1:08 PM on June 20, 2002
posted by websavvy at 1:08 PM on June 20, 2002
who was the first to say that if video games really affected kids, most of our generation would be running around in dark places, eating little pills, and listening to repetative electronic music?
posted by jcterminal at 1:11 PM on June 20, 2002
posted by jcterminal at 1:11 PM on June 20, 2002
I agree with this:
More generally, what some critics of electronic music don't (yet) understand or acknowledge is that the absence of words provides the opportunity for narratives that transcend the boundaries of language to be built in much the same way that narratives are built in jazz and classical music.
Electronic/dance music as composition is still in its relative infancy, I think, waiting for its Charlie Parker(s) to come along and completely change the rules. For my money, Amon Tobin is at the head of the pack. His shit is absolutely amazing.
Sub_sonic is an electronic group in Seattle that improvise together, DJ, keyboards, sound effects/toys. They do a very impressive job of bringing the spontaneity of jazz to the electronic form.
posted by Ty Webb at 1:15 PM on June 20, 2002
More generally, what some critics of electronic music don't (yet) understand or acknowledge is that the absence of words provides the opportunity for narratives that transcend the boundaries of language to be built in much the same way that narratives are built in jazz and classical music.
Electronic/dance music as composition is still in its relative infancy, I think, waiting for its Charlie Parker(s) to come along and completely change the rules. For my money, Amon Tobin is at the head of the pack. His shit is absolutely amazing.
Sub_sonic is an electronic group in Seattle that improvise together, DJ, keyboards, sound effects/toys. They do a very impressive job of bringing the spontaneity of jazz to the electronic form.
posted by Ty Webb at 1:15 PM on June 20, 2002
Folks, this is what much of America thinks of as dance music: "30 of the most pulse-pounding club hits ever!" Better to laugh than to cry.
When the general perception of a broad category of music is "that K-Tel CD I saw on TV, the one with Ace of Base on it," you're not making a solid connection with the public.
posted by majick at 1:21 PM on June 20, 2002
When the general perception of a broad category of music is "that K-Tel CD I saw on TV, the one with Ace of Base on it," you're not making a solid connection with the public.
posted by majick at 1:21 PM on June 20, 2002
I love the "Americans aren't indivduals" rant coupled with the premise of "why can't they all like what we like." Just classic! So I suppose I should toss out all of my Wagner, Handel and Mozart, trash my KMFDM, Thrill Kill Kult and 808 State discs, burn my Me First and the Gimme Gimmes, Ramones and Social Distortion CD's, sell off the piles of Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull and Neil Young, get rid of my Johnny Cash collection, stop listening to Tori Amos, forget about all the regional acts I follow and stop helping out my friend's band every weekend. All so I can listen to what the author of this article likes and be a true individual. Bite me.
posted by RevGreg at 1:30 PM on June 20, 2002
posted by RevGreg at 1:30 PM on June 20, 2002
I don't understand why this is a problem. Why do Americans need to care? Why does music need to be commercially successful to be valuable? Why does this experience need to be promoted? What's wrong with a little inaccessibility?
Good music does not require the participation of a mass audience. Creativity often thrives in obscurity.
posted by Mars Saxman at 1:31 PM on June 20, 2002
Good music does not require the participation of a mass audience. Creativity often thrives in obscurity.
posted by Mars Saxman at 1:31 PM on June 20, 2002
RevGreg: I will gladly take your stuff. Don't throw it out.
posted by yhbc at 1:35 PM on June 20, 2002
posted by yhbc at 1:35 PM on June 20, 2002
Will electronic music ever break in the US?
Electronic music is already broken in the US.
posted by kindall at 1:59 PM on June 20, 2002
Electronic music is already broken in the US.
posted by kindall at 1:59 PM on June 20, 2002
*Yawn* This article is a rehash of old news that's been talked about for years.
This seemingly arrogant statement speaks volumes about electronic music being unapproachable. Its also a great social commentary on those who have been involved in electronic music for years.
They are soo five years ago.
The boom is gone, stained by drug use and apoor demographic, american electronic music scenes are not something most people would like to be associated with. The current popularity of the music reflects that a lot.
posted by vincentmeanie at 2:07 PM on June 20, 2002
This seemingly arrogant statement speaks volumes about electronic music being unapproachable. Its also a great social commentary on those who have been involved in electronic music for years.
They are soo five years ago.
The boom is gone, stained by drug use and apoor demographic, american electronic music scenes are not something most people would like to be associated with. The current popularity of the music reflects that a lot.
posted by vincentmeanie at 2:07 PM on June 20, 2002
It's not doing too bad in Detroit.
That's because it came from Detroit. Europe caught on about a decade later.
posted by badstone at 2:44 PM on June 20, 2002
That's because it came from Detroit. Europe caught on about a decade later.
posted by badstone at 2:44 PM on June 20, 2002
The absolute BEST concert I've ever gone to was The Crystal Method last year at the Warfield. I dancedfor about 3 straight hours without stopping for a second. It was the most involved, interesting, fun, amazing, ass-kicking and exhausting concert I've ever gone to. I've seen Moby 8 or 9 times (all the way back to London in '93) and he gives a good show. I love techno, electronica, whatever you want to call it. Some electronica is stale and boring, but the same could be said for any genre. Reaggae, rock, definitely rap & soul, country. Techno/electronica is the only music I see that is really constantly changing and always being new and creative. I'm glad all of America isn't into it, or the concerts and raves would seriously stink. Britney Spears does Electronica!
On a side-note: If you want to pick up some great stuff, pick up ATB-Dedicated; Crystal Method-Tweekend, Vegas; Fatboy Slim-On the floor of the Boutique, and You've come a long way baby; Moby-Moby. Good starter set. Don't bother with Dirty Vegas. BORING, wanna-be techno.
posted by aacheson at 2:56 PM on June 20, 2002
On a side-note: If you want to pick up some great stuff, pick up ATB-Dedicated; Crystal Method-Tweekend, Vegas; Fatboy Slim-On the floor of the Boutique, and You've come a long way baby; Moby-Moby. Good starter set. Don't bother with Dirty Vegas. BORING, wanna-be techno.
posted by aacheson at 2:56 PM on June 20, 2002
Ack...if you want to pick up some great stuff try Paul Oakenfold, Darren Emerson, Chemical Brothers, Underworld, Fluke or Sasha and John Digweed. And then Fatboy and Moby. Don't bother with Dirty Vegas. BORING, wanna-be techno.
posted by mathis23 at 3:03 PM on June 20, 2002
posted by mathis23 at 3:03 PM on June 20, 2002
And William Orbit, Josh Wink and Richie Hawtin. K, I'm done. Maybe.
posted by mathis23 at 3:05 PM on June 20, 2002
posted by mathis23 at 3:05 PM on June 20, 2002
And Ferry Corsten, Sandra Collins, BT or anything on the Ministry of Sound label.
posted by mathis23 at 3:07 PM on June 20, 2002
posted by mathis23 at 3:07 PM on June 20, 2002
i'm down with it, as long as they took out the keyboards and turned up the guitars, wankers.
posted by tsarfan at 3:25 PM on June 20, 2002
posted by tsarfan at 3:25 PM on June 20, 2002
Ninja Tune. Their three cd compilation Xen Cuts is pretty cool.
posted by Ty Webb at 3:47 PM on June 20, 2002
posted by Ty Webb at 3:47 PM on June 20, 2002
Of course the (almost) complete absence of the single here in the states doesn't help electronic music either. When 90% of what you'll hear on, say an essential mix is from artists that have a single or two but no album, that's an issue. Even more so, like papalotl said, you've got to drop $20+ to get many of these tunes imported on vinyl, and whitelabels or limited releases are even more. (Just try getting a pressing of any of the Girls On Top discs for under $50. Even the bootleg repressings go for $30+.)
Its a real shame that the single market is dead in the US. I know when I burn a CD nintey-plus percent of the tracks tend to be either a) unreleased b) import only c) vinyl only or more likely d) a combination of the above. During my short time studying in Germany I was at the record store every monday going through the new single releases, almost none of which have ever been released on this side of the pond.
Okay, I'll add some of my favs at the moment, too: Hybrid, Tillman Uhrmacher, ShyFX, Jark Prongo, Illicit, Claudio Coccoluto, Layo & Bushwacka, and Trouser Enthusiasts.
posted by darainwa at 3:49 PM on June 20, 2002
Its a real shame that the single market is dead in the US. I know when I burn a CD nintey-plus percent of the tracks tend to be either a) unreleased b) import only c) vinyl only or more likely d) a combination of the above. During my short time studying in Germany I was at the record store every monday going through the new single releases, almost none of which have ever been released on this side of the pond.
Okay, I'll add some of my favs at the moment, too: Hybrid, Tillman Uhrmacher, ShyFX, Jark Prongo, Illicit, Claudio Coccoluto, Layo & Bushwacka, and Trouser Enthusiasts.
posted by darainwa at 3:49 PM on June 20, 2002
Skylar's right, drugs help a lot.
help one appreciate the Dead, that is.
posted by Ty Webb at 4:00 PM on June 20, 2002
help one appreciate the Dead, that is.
posted by Ty Webb at 4:00 PM on June 20, 2002
i'm down with it, as long as they took out the keyboards and turned up the guitars, wankers.
so large.
can someone who's got an english accent record this as a wav and send it to me? that'd be keen. thx.
posted by fishfucker at 4:21 PM on June 20, 2002
so large.
can someone who's got an english accent record this as a wav and send it to me? that'd be keen. thx.
posted by fishfucker at 4:21 PM on June 20, 2002
who was the first to say that if video games really affected kids, most of our generation would be running around in dark places, eating little pills, and listening to repetative electronic music?
Good Lord would I like to find out. That's a great quote.
posted by D at 4:52 PM on June 20, 2002
Good Lord would I like to find out. That's a great quote.
posted by D at 4:52 PM on June 20, 2002
On a side-note: If you want to pick up some great stuff, pick up ATB-Dedicated; Crystal Method-Tweekend, Vegas; Fatboy Slim-On the floor of the Boutique, and You've come a long way baby; Moby-Moby. Good starter set. Don't bother with Dirty Vegas. BORING, wanna-be techno.
and crystal method, fatboy slim, and moby aren't boring? try some venetian snares or squarepusher or bogdan raczynski for some non-boring, non-wannabe "techno."
posted by afx114 at 4:53 PM on June 20, 2002
and crystal method, fatboy slim, and moby aren't boring? try some venetian snares or squarepusher or bogdan raczynski for some non-boring, non-wannabe "techno."
posted by afx114 at 4:53 PM on June 20, 2002
Errr... I'll just throw out my contribution in the "good techno list" category:
House: Bad Boy Bill, Richard Humpty Vision, Station 22, Briandizzy, some of Superstar DJ Keoki's mixes are good, too.
Trance (aka everything): Alice Deejay, DJ Mars, The Digitech Experiance, Space Girl, Jon Bishop, Jon the Dentist
Hardcore: Paulina Taylor, JDA, Akira, Omar Santana, Cloudskipper, Sonic, Lostboy
D&B / Jungle: Gridlok, DJ 187, DJ Soul Slinger, and pretty much everyone signed to Liquid Sky/Jungle Sky
Oh, and Oakenfold. Everyone but me likes him, apparently. I don't go for that MTV-style techno all that much. Moby, Crystal Method, etc. are good in moderation, don't get me wrong, but anyone trying to dance to "Busy Child" needs to seek help. The music is there to dance to, not to make music videos of and watch.
posted by fnord_prefect at 5:16 PM on June 20, 2002
House: Bad Boy Bill, Richard Humpty Vision, Station 22, Briandizzy, some of Superstar DJ Keoki's mixes are good, too.
Trance (aka everything): Alice Deejay, DJ Mars, The Digitech Experiance, Space Girl, Jon Bishop, Jon the Dentist
Hardcore: Paulina Taylor, JDA, Akira, Omar Santana, Cloudskipper, Sonic, Lostboy
D&B / Jungle: Gridlok, DJ 187, DJ Soul Slinger, and pretty much everyone signed to Liquid Sky/Jungle Sky
Oh, and Oakenfold. Everyone but me likes him, apparently. I don't go for that MTV-style techno all that much. Moby, Crystal Method, etc. are good in moderation, don't get me wrong, but anyone trying to dance to "Busy Child" needs to seek help. The music is there to dance to, not to make music videos of and watch.
posted by fnord_prefect at 5:16 PM on June 20, 2002
what afx114 said about crystalmethod et al.
fatboy slim is competent and moby is ok at times. but that doesn't stop them from being boring.
in no particular order:
phoenecia/soul oddity, autechre, telefon tel aviv, arovane, loess, fizzarum, static, tarwater, twine, vesna, diagram of suburban chaos, delarosa & asora, req, neotropic, bit meddler, robert normandeau, piano magic-son de mar soundtrack, hawtin/brinkmann-concept196vr, aphextwin-saw2.
caveat: some of those file under ambient so if ambient music is boring to you then some of those are going to be boring too...
posted by juv3nal at 5:26 PM on June 20, 2002
fatboy slim is competent and moby is ok at times. but that doesn't stop them from being boring.
in no particular order:
phoenecia/soul oddity, autechre, telefon tel aviv, arovane, loess, fizzarum, static, tarwater, twine, vesna, diagram of suburban chaos, delarosa & asora, req, neotropic, bit meddler, robert normandeau, piano magic-son de mar soundtrack, hawtin/brinkmann-concept196vr, aphextwin-saw2.
caveat: some of those file under ambient so if ambient music is boring to you then some of those are going to be boring too...
posted by juv3nal at 5:26 PM on June 20, 2002
Oh, and on the micro-gentrification thing:
It's just kids being kids. Most of the artists don't sit down and say, "I shall now make a progressive happycore record." No more than anyone pronouced their first record to be "the definative emo/pogo/whatever punk record." My theory is that, whenever you get a good genre going, the fans will classify the music in such a way that it makes them feel like the individuals they aren't.
They want to be non-conformists, just like everyone else.
posted by fnord_prefect at 5:27 PM on June 20, 2002
It's just kids being kids. Most of the artists don't sit down and say, "I shall now make a progressive happycore record." No more than anyone pronouced their first record to be "the definative emo/pogo/whatever punk record." My theory is that, whenever you get a good genre going, the fans will classify the music in such a way that it makes them feel like the individuals they aren't.
They want to be non-conformists, just like everyone else.
posted by fnord_prefect at 5:27 PM on June 20, 2002
Especially suburban white kids.
posted by fnord_prefect at 5:28 PM on June 20, 2002
posted by fnord_prefect at 5:28 PM on June 20, 2002
afx114:and crystal method, fatboy slim, and moby aren't boring? try some venetian snares or squarepusher or bogdan raczynski for some non-boring, non-wannabe "techno."
...and people who listen to electronic music wonder why its seen as 'inaccessible'.
While the afore mentioned artists may have a bit more exposure than our precious Tom Jenkinson that's doesn't make them "wannabes". IMHO, they all have some reputable tracks (and places in my music collection).
Go pick up Early Underground by Moby for some early 90s style electronic goodness, Fatboy Slim's remix of "King Of Snake" for a blinder of a smash-house tune, or try some of the remixes of "The Dubeliscious Groove" for some above-par trip-hop Crystal Method.
posted by darainwa at 5:30 PM on June 20, 2002
...and people who listen to electronic music wonder why its seen as 'inaccessible'.
While the afore mentioned artists may have a bit more exposure than our precious Tom Jenkinson that's doesn't make them "wannabes". IMHO, they all have some reputable tracks (and places in my music collection).
Go pick up Early Underground by Moby for some early 90s style electronic goodness, Fatboy Slim's remix of "King Of Snake" for a blinder of a smash-house tune, or try some of the remixes of "The Dubeliscious Groove" for some above-par trip-hop Crystal Method.
posted by darainwa at 5:30 PM on June 20, 2002
...and people who listen to electronic music wonder why its seen as 'inaccessible'.
s/electronic/punk
posted by fnord_prefect at 5:35 PM on June 20, 2002
s/electronic/punk
posted by fnord_prefect at 5:35 PM on June 20, 2002
Agree with kindall that electronic music here is already broken.
Drive on the streets, and there's bound to be some kid thumping their "pop-no." Chicago's 92.7 is always playing PPK's Resurrection, guaranteed. That, or the remix of the DeBeer's commercial. I guess the radio stations here need to have more variety (ha). Europe has BBC Radio One's Essential Mix--airing weekly mixes by great DJs.
There always will be elitism, but I have to say that I love that Dirty Vegas song. ;)
Good recommendations here, all around... Don't agree with some... Oakey/Moby don't suit my tastes anymore, but whatever. While I'm still rambling, lemme throw in Talvin Singh.
posted by hobbes at 7:43 PM on June 20, 2002
Drive on the streets, and there's bound to be some kid thumping their "pop-no." Chicago's 92.7 is always playing PPK's Resurrection, guaranteed. That, or the remix of the DeBeer's commercial. I guess the radio stations here need to have more variety (ha). Europe has BBC Radio One's Essential Mix--airing weekly mixes by great DJs.
There always will be elitism, but I have to say that I love that Dirty Vegas song. ;)
Good recommendations here, all around... Don't agree with some... Oakey/Moby don't suit my tastes anymore, but whatever. While I'm still rambling, lemme throw in Talvin Singh.
posted by hobbes at 7:43 PM on June 20, 2002
And my MeFi links are broken, too.
/mefi/17956#293861
/mefi/17947
posted by hobbes at 7:45 PM on June 20, 2002
/mefi/17956#293861
/mefi/17947
posted by hobbes at 7:45 PM on June 20, 2002
Haha, I just bought two Vangelis records today. In fact, I bought more records today than I have in months. Vangelis makes some totally amazing music. Really no reason to diss on him.
Bogdan Raczynski, oh yes, is the fucking shit. Wow, I recommend him so wholeheartedly along with the other people who mentioned him in this thread. In fact, I went to see his show here in San Francisco a few weeks ago, but the bouncer at the Bottom of the Hill wouldn't take my fucking fake ID. Goddam. So I had to chill outside the whole night and listen from there instead. lol.
I also just bought a book about Nine Inch Nails today. It chronicles Trent Reznor's life, and whatnot. I just started it, but so far, it's pretty interesting.
And to the people commenting on the fact that DJing is extremely expensive, I really have to agree. It costs so much money to do this, and frankly, it's pretty ridiculous. I pretty much stopped buying records entirely for several months, and coincidentally, today is the first day I bought anything. I don't really know how to adress that issue beyond the fact that I forsee a lot of the cheap software being used these days to become really killer in the near future. Maybe we'll just be able to share each others' music online. And now that we can't broadcast commercial music legally without paying ridiculous fees, maybe there's gonna be a big explosion in the near future of underground artists (such as myself) who don't care about having their music played on the air for free or extremely cheap.
posted by ookamaka at 8:44 PM on June 20, 2002
Bogdan Raczynski, oh yes, is the fucking shit. Wow, I recommend him so wholeheartedly along with the other people who mentioned him in this thread. In fact, I went to see his show here in San Francisco a few weeks ago, but the bouncer at the Bottom of the Hill wouldn't take my fucking fake ID. Goddam. So I had to chill outside the whole night and listen from there instead. lol.
I also just bought a book about Nine Inch Nails today. It chronicles Trent Reznor's life, and whatnot. I just started it, but so far, it's pretty interesting.
And to the people commenting on the fact that DJing is extremely expensive, I really have to agree. It costs so much money to do this, and frankly, it's pretty ridiculous. I pretty much stopped buying records entirely for several months, and coincidentally, today is the first day I bought anything. I don't really know how to adress that issue beyond the fact that I forsee a lot of the cheap software being used these days to become really killer in the near future. Maybe we'll just be able to share each others' music online. And now that we can't broadcast commercial music legally without paying ridiculous fees, maybe there's gonna be a big explosion in the near future of underground artists (such as myself) who don't care about having their music played on the air for free or extremely cheap.
posted by ookamaka at 8:44 PM on June 20, 2002
I *heart* Orb and Orbital. Underworld definitely rocks my world. And how about Deep Forest, Air's Moon Safari for that certain mood, early Delerium, Chorus of Tribes, anyone, or is it just me who likes that crazy European thing? And wow, it's so nice to read a MeFi thread with posts by other techno fans!
posted by Lynsey at 8:59 PM on June 20, 2002
posted by Lynsey at 8:59 PM on June 20, 2002
The music is there to dance to
Well, the artist's intent is only peripherally related to what people actually use it for. I like music with lots of interesting things to discover in it, stuff you can actually sit and listen to if you want. And I like it to have lots of synths in it.
Through the years, I've discovered that when someone complains that a given artist in some underground genre has "sold out," it's a pretty good sign I should check them out. Moby I've never really liked (kept buying his albums and tried to like them, but they always seemed rather obvious) and Aphex Twin and related projects always sounded to me like so much noise, but The Crystal Method kicks my ass.
To hear where I'm coming from, try some of Tangerine Dream's early-to-mid-80s recordings, particularly Tangram, Exit, and Poland...
posted by kindall at 10:08 PM on June 20, 2002
Well, the artist's intent is only peripherally related to what people actually use it for. I like music with lots of interesting things to discover in it, stuff you can actually sit and listen to if you want. And I like it to have lots of synths in it.
Through the years, I've discovered that when someone complains that a given artist in some underground genre has "sold out," it's a pretty good sign I should check them out. Moby I've never really liked (kept buying his albums and tried to like them, but they always seemed rather obvious) and Aphex Twin and related projects always sounded to me like so much noise, but The Crystal Method kicks my ass.
To hear where I'm coming from, try some of Tangerine Dream's early-to-mid-80s recordings, particularly Tangram, Exit, and Poland...
posted by kindall at 10:08 PM on June 20, 2002
Thing is, dance music is practically dead in the UK now as well.
The big 'electronica' acts they tried to push in the US have largely failed. The Orb's last album sold only a tiny amount, Orbital have been dropped by their record label and seem a spent force. Underworld's last album bombed. Aphex Twin has his hardcore of bearded geek fans, but has no impact on the wider community any more. That leaves just Moby and his coffee table music for suburban thirtysomethings who want a change from the bland wurblings of Dido.
Meanwhile, the last dregs of dance are slowly vanishing from the top forty, usually lowest common denominator pop trance from the likes of Ian Van Dahl and Ferry Corsten.
The superclubs are now regularly empty. Cream in Liverpool is devoid of punters many nights. Ministry of Sound in London are thinking of selling the club, and now make more money out of their chill-out compilations than anything dance related - and in fact sold far more of their classical chill-out comp than they did of any of their recent dance compilations. Many other clubs are struggling too and it seems hardly a week goes by without another specialist dance shop closing.
That's why the US is filling up with British and European DJs right now. They realise they have now future in Europe and are hoping to try and prolong their careers for a few months over there instead. I'm not sure who comes off worse here: the US for getting our aging, shagged out DJs peddling increasingly tired and bland dance tracks or the UK with a chart that's instead now bulging with American nu-metal bands, apparently beloved of thirteen year old boys.
Time for something new. And it isn't electroclash.
posted by kerplunk at 3:11 AM on June 21, 2002
The big 'electronica' acts they tried to push in the US have largely failed. The Orb's last album sold only a tiny amount, Orbital have been dropped by their record label and seem a spent force. Underworld's last album bombed. Aphex Twin has his hardcore of bearded geek fans, but has no impact on the wider community any more. That leaves just Moby and his coffee table music for suburban thirtysomethings who want a change from the bland wurblings of Dido.
Meanwhile, the last dregs of dance are slowly vanishing from the top forty, usually lowest common denominator pop trance from the likes of Ian Van Dahl and Ferry Corsten.
The superclubs are now regularly empty. Cream in Liverpool is devoid of punters many nights. Ministry of Sound in London are thinking of selling the club, and now make more money out of their chill-out compilations than anything dance related - and in fact sold far more of their classical chill-out comp than they did of any of their recent dance compilations. Many other clubs are struggling too and it seems hardly a week goes by without another specialist dance shop closing.
That's why the US is filling up with British and European DJs right now. They realise they have now future in Europe and are hoping to try and prolong their careers for a few months over there instead. I'm not sure who comes off worse here: the US for getting our aging, shagged out DJs peddling increasingly tired and bland dance tracks or the UK with a chart that's instead now bulging with American nu-metal bands, apparently beloved of thirteen year old boys.
Time for something new. And it isn't electroclash.
posted by kerplunk at 3:11 AM on June 21, 2002
As a long-time collector, listener, DJ and wanna-be producer, I couldn't give two shits if the masses get it or not. I like independent labels, small-run pressings and being able to email my favorite musicians and actually get a response back. Big massives are dead, dead, dead and I like it. Give me house parties or 50 people in front of a small system at an outdoor renegade any day of the week. Small == intimate == better.
posted by irix at 6:50 AM on June 21, 2002
posted by irix at 6:50 AM on June 21, 2002
Ack...if you want to pick up some great stuff try Paul Oakenfold, Darren Emerson, Chemical Brothers, Underworld, Fluke or Sasha and John Digweed. And then Fatboy and Moby. Don't bother with Dirty Vegas. BORING, wanna-be techno. And William Orbit, Josh Wink and Richie Hawtin. And Ferry Corsten, Sandra Collins, BT or anything on the Ministry of Sound label.
Elitist snob rant: Bah! Besides Underworld and Richie Hawtin, this is pretty beginner stuff. The TRL of the electronic world, persay.
Try Mouse On Mars, Adult, & Two Lone Swordsmen!
posted by mmesker at 7:58 AM on June 21, 2002
Elitist snob rant: Bah! Besides Underworld and Richie Hawtin, this is pretty beginner stuff. The TRL of the electronic world, persay.
Try Mouse On Mars, Adult, & Two Lone Swordsmen!
posted by mmesker at 7:58 AM on June 21, 2002
My own preferred electronic sounds come more from the nu-jazz direction than techno - it seems strange that house and techno are often confused. While both are made with electronics (studio music), they could hardly be more different. I am down with the Vienna sound - Kruder and Dorfmeister, Boozoo Bajou, Sofa Surfers, Patrick Pulsinger - and to a lesser extent the 2-step out of London (though its politics are quite reactionary, the music can be sublime, like 187 Lockdown's Kung Fu track). Also, Andrew Weatherall, Charles Webster and the genius who is Matthew Herbert.
Small == intimate == better. I couldn't agree more.
posted by fellorwaspushed at 8:03 AM on June 21, 2002
Small == intimate == better. I couldn't agree more.
posted by fellorwaspushed at 8:03 AM on June 21, 2002
See I KNEW this would happen. I would mention some good "starter-cd's" for newbies and people would rag on me. I think suggesting starting with the more popular and mainstream techno is a good place to start people out on.
Here's something that bothers me about Techno. The need to slam people because you think they aren't nearly as cool as you are cuz they listen to !gasp! popular music and don't find (or necessarily like) all the indies and less mainstream music. This attitude of "I'm better than you" killed the rave scene. It made it all about how you look and who you listen to and ravers started dissing other ravers.
I guarantee you that back when I started listening to Moby in 1992, you all would have considered him small and intimate, but suddenly his popularity makes him un-cool (that...and his last two records weren't good.) Would you all like "- Kruder and Dorfmeister..., Patric Pulsinger" or "phoenecia/soul oddity, autechre, telefon tel aviv, ...aphextwin-saw2" if they suddenly became popular? Probably not because your "street cred" would go down hill. Additionally, some might agree that the stuff you like is BORING (I'll start with Aphex Twin and could go on from there...)
It's all so juvenile! I don't think anyone here is impressed with how many "different and "small-intimate" bands you can list in a sentence.
posted by aacheson at 9:38 AM on June 21, 2002
Here's something that bothers me about Techno. The need to slam people because you think they aren't nearly as cool as you are cuz they listen to !gasp! popular music and don't find (or necessarily like) all the indies and less mainstream music. This attitude of "I'm better than you" killed the rave scene. It made it all about how you look and who you listen to and ravers started dissing other ravers.
I guarantee you that back when I started listening to Moby in 1992, you all would have considered him small and intimate, but suddenly his popularity makes him un-cool (that...and his last two records weren't good.) Would you all like "- Kruder and Dorfmeister..., Patric Pulsinger" or "phoenecia/soul oddity, autechre, telefon tel aviv, ...aphextwin-saw2" if they suddenly became popular? Probably not because your "street cred" would go down hill. Additionally, some might agree that the stuff you like is BORING (I'll start with Aphex Twin and could go on from there...)
It's all so juvenile! I don't think anyone here is impressed with how many "different and "small-intimate" bands you can list in a sentence.
posted by aacheson at 9:38 AM on June 21, 2002
aacheson: right on, man.
The whole hyper-genrefication thing where calling "Crystal Method" techno gets you yelled at because it's "big beat" and not "detroit", combined with the elitist attitude of people who are hardcore into one style or another "oh you must be uncool because you've never heard of malpheasance monkeys on crack, I can't talk to you" - that really bugs the fuck out of me.
Seriously, if it's one of the techno/electronica subgenres then it's safe to call it techno. Unless it has a guitar, in which case it's industrial. When people that listen exclusively to jazz and classical ask what I listen to, I don't tell them "a lot of psychedelic trance", because they'll have no clue what I'm talking about. I tell them "um, mostly techno", because they'll understand that it's "that electronic crap that I hate". Which in reality, is only true because I probably listen to techno more often than I listen to any other specific genre, not because I listen to it most of the time.
One thing though: I'll have to disagree with aacheson on the quality of moby's last two....they're not really techno, but I think they're pretty good. I find them to be, for the most part, nice relaxing music.
posted by jaded at 11:54 AM on June 21, 2002
The whole hyper-genrefication thing where calling "Crystal Method" techno gets you yelled at because it's "big beat" and not "detroit", combined with the elitist attitude of people who are hardcore into one style or another "oh you must be uncool because you've never heard of malpheasance monkeys on crack, I can't talk to you" - that really bugs the fuck out of me.
Seriously, if it's one of the techno/electronica subgenres then it's safe to call it techno. Unless it has a guitar, in which case it's industrial. When people that listen exclusively to jazz and classical ask what I listen to, I don't tell them "a lot of psychedelic trance", because they'll have no clue what I'm talking about. I tell them "um, mostly techno", because they'll understand that it's "that electronic crap that I hate". Which in reality, is only true because I probably listen to techno more often than I listen to any other specific genre, not because I listen to it most of the time.
One thing though: I'll have to disagree with aacheson on the quality of moby's last two....they're not really techno, but I think they're pretty good. I find them to be, for the most part, nice relaxing music.
posted by jaded at 11:54 AM on June 21, 2002
dissing crystal method when discussing "techno" is just as valid as dissing blink-182 when discussing "punk."
is dissing blink-182 elitist? seems like a pretty valid thing to do, given the evidence and their diss-worthyness.
posted by afx114 at 12:57 PM on June 21, 2002
is dissing blink-182 elitist? seems like a pretty valid thing to do, given the evidence and their diss-worthyness.
posted by afx114 at 12:57 PM on June 21, 2002
Here's something that bothers me about Techno. The need to slam people because you think they aren't nearly as cool as you are cuz they listen to !gasp! popular music
I agree, but this has been the case with all genre's of music. The same dorks who dis Moby now were the ones who wrote off Nine Inch Nails because they got too popular, in favor of more underground stuff like...Moby. Not to worry, such criticisms come from people who don't appreciate music as an art form so much as a quick and easy way to reinforce their self-image (dude, I'm a punk/raver/jazzbo/Deadhead).
posted by Ty Webb at 2:09 PM on June 21, 2002
I agree, but this has been the case with all genre's of music. The same dorks who dis Moby now were the ones who wrote off Nine Inch Nails because they got too popular, in favor of more underground stuff like...Moby. Not to worry, such criticisms come from people who don't appreciate music as an art form so much as a quick and easy way to reinforce their self-image (dude, I'm a punk/raver/jazzbo/Deadhead).
posted by Ty Webb at 2:09 PM on June 21, 2002
It is very hard to find out the names of the good acts - because they are released on micro-labels or even because they record music under several different names -
posted by fellorwaspushed at 3:05 PM on June 21, 2002
posted by fellorwaspushed at 3:05 PM on June 21, 2002
I'm totally confused. I don't like techno (electronic-music- that thing my roommate did), but I thought that that was because I am somewhat puritanical when it comes to music. Everywhere I go people are dj-ing; every house I step foot in has two turn-tables set up (no microphone); everyone seems to only listen to it and mix records. Literally every bar I have been in since moving to New York has someone making music that goes: boing boing doooo doooo [kind of like your grand mother's explanation, I know] with crates of records and record players, oh, sorry vinyl and turn tables.
It does my head in.
posted by goneill at 3:07 PM on June 21, 2002
It does my head in.
posted by goneill at 3:07 PM on June 21, 2002
who was the first to say that if video games really affected kids, most of our generation would be running around in dark places, eating little pills, and listening to repetative electronic music?
Good Lord would I like to find out. That's a great quote.
British comedian Marcus Brigstocke is your man, apparently. And he's still pissed off at the fact that everyone thinks he stole the gag from the internet.
And kerplunk has a point: in the era of Gareth Gates and Will Young, dance music is just a bit less prominent.
posted by riviera at 3:53 PM on June 21, 2002
Good Lord would I like to find out. That's a great quote.
British comedian Marcus Brigstocke is your man, apparently. And he's still pissed off at the fact that everyone thinks he stole the gag from the internet.
And kerplunk has a point: in the era of Gareth Gates and Will Young, dance music is just a bit less prominent.
posted by riviera at 3:53 PM on June 21, 2002
aacheson: Would you all like "- Kruder and Dorfmeister..., Patric Pulsinger" or "phoenecia/soul oddity, autechre, telefon tel aviv, ...aphextwin-saw2" if they suddenly became popular? Probably not because your "street cred" would go down hill.
[sarcasm]
umm. ok. if you say so.
just like i'd stop liking led zeppelin/the doors/the beatles if they ever *gasp* became popular. because where would my "street cred" be then?
[/sarcasm]
for any genre of music that you like, there are necessarily going to be artists producing work in that genre that you like and others you dislike. to chalk it up to some elitist pursuit of obscurity is ludicrous.
posted by juv3nal at 7:21 AM on June 22, 2002
[sarcasm]
umm. ok. if you say so.
just like i'd stop liking led zeppelin/the doors/the beatles if they ever *gasp* became popular. because where would my "street cred" be then?
[/sarcasm]
for any genre of music that you like, there are necessarily going to be artists producing work in that genre that you like and others you dislike. to chalk it up to some elitist pursuit of obscurity is ludicrous.
posted by juv3nal at 7:21 AM on June 22, 2002
SIMPLE REALLY ....................
The reason Dance Music never took off in America is because white Americans can't dance and have no sense of rhythm.
posted by Ragamuffin at 10:08 AM on June 25, 2002
The reason Dance Music never took off in America is because white Americans can't dance and have no sense of rhythm.
posted by Ragamuffin at 10:08 AM on June 25, 2002
white Americans can't dance and have no sense of rhythm.
Good grief! I'm white. I'm American. I've got more rhythm than I know what to do with. I like most techno but I don't need the fucking rhythm to hammer me in the head to get into it. Most so-called "dance music" presents the rhythm in such an overbearing manner that the shock waves from the speakers can make people look like they have rhythm even though they are just struggling against the shockwaves! Give me a nice, understated bass groove winding around a syncopated drum track any day over the thumpa-thumpa bullshit...
posted by RevGreg at 1:09 PM on June 25, 2002
Good grief! I'm white. I'm American. I've got more rhythm than I know what to do with. I like most techno but I don't need the fucking rhythm to hammer me in the head to get into it. Most so-called "dance music" presents the rhythm in such an overbearing manner that the shock waves from the speakers can make people look like they have rhythm even though they are just struggling against the shockwaves! Give me a nice, understated bass groove winding around a syncopated drum track any day over the thumpa-thumpa bullshit...
posted by RevGreg at 1:09 PM on June 25, 2002
Most so-called "dance music" presents the rhythm in such an overbearing manner that the shock waves from the speakers can make people look like they have rhythm even though they are just struggling against the shockwaves!
Mmmmmm shock waves...
I always stand in front of the bins, there's nothing like the feeling of a good bassline blowing past you. Of course these days I just put on some Rhythm and Sound, and curl up in front of the sub-woofer.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 2:58 PM on June 26, 2002
Mmmmmm shock waves...
I always stand in front of the bins, there's nothing like the feeling of a good bassline blowing past you. Of course these days I just put on some Rhythm and Sound, and curl up in front of the sub-woofer.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 2:58 PM on June 26, 2002
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posted by afx114 at 11:51 AM on June 20, 2002