Steven Berkoff deported from the USA
July 1, 2002 6:28 AM Subscribe
Steven Berkoff deported from the USA for overstaying his visa by 24 hours, five years ago. Such heavy-handed behaviour must be more harmful than good for the USA as a country. Surely the rules can't be so rigid as to force the authorities into doing this, so why do it? Couldn't they just caution, or even fine him? Or has he upset someone?
[via Wibbly Weblog]
[via Wibbly Weblog]
this reminds me of the story of a british woman who married an american man twelve odd years ago, and never tried to get neutralized.
Eleven years later, when "mixed marriages" between us and non-us citizens was under the spotlight - she was being deported back to U.K. because they found she had a criminal record in the u.k. ( a spat of pot in her house once got her arrested).
she was all over the Guardian with her cry-story, saying "they are deporting the mother of two american boys". What she failed to explain was why she never - during her twelve year residency in the U.S married to an american , having his children and obviously set on staying - *never* tried to get a permenent residency.
Do people think citizenship and visa rules apply to everyone else?
posted by dabitch at 6:38 AM on July 1, 2002
Eleven years later, when "mixed marriages" between us and non-us citizens was under the spotlight - she was being deported back to U.K. because they found she had a criminal record in the u.k. ( a spat of pot in her house once got her arrested).
she was all over the Guardian with her cry-story, saying "they are deporting the mother of two american boys". What she failed to explain was why she never - during her twelve year residency in the U.S married to an american , having his children and obviously set on staying - *never* tried to get a permenent residency.
Do people think citizenship and visa rules apply to everyone else?
posted by dabitch at 6:38 AM on July 1, 2002
Maybe now he will renew his visa on time. Sorry, but the jabs he took in the article make me damn near glad that such snobbery was shuttled across The Pond.
posted by adampsyche at 6:39 AM on July 1, 2002
posted by adampsyche at 6:39 AM on July 1, 2002
i wish the article elaborated on how he overstayed five years ago. on a b-2 visa for instance he could stay six months, did he stay six months and one day?
if so, should he have been on say, a working visa of sorts instead? (actors can get working visa's if their talent is not represented by US citizens, and any other highly skilled person for that matter, like a german rocket scientist).
when Ingmar Bergman wanted to set up a Strindberg play in NYC two years ago (or so) - acted in it's original language swedish - he wasn't granted visa's for his chosen Swedish actors as the immigration authorities thought he should look for american talent first.
posted by dabitch at 6:46 AM on July 1, 2002
if so, should he have been on say, a working visa of sorts instead? (actors can get working visa's if their talent is not represented by US citizens, and any other highly skilled person for that matter, like a german rocket scientist).
when Ingmar Bergman wanted to set up a Strindberg play in NYC two years ago (or so) - acted in it's original language swedish - he wasn't granted visa's for his chosen Swedish actors as the immigration authorities thought he should look for american talent first.
posted by dabitch at 6:46 AM on July 1, 2002
Selective enforcement is a tool of oppression. If the law is bad, change the law.
posted by NortonDC at 6:49 AM on July 1, 2002
posted by NortonDC at 6:49 AM on July 1, 2002
I have no ideas about the laws concerning this, but the punishment does seem rather harsh. It seems like there should be some sort of statute of limitations on a crime as inconsequential as this.
also, ice_cream_motor, I'm in Ann Arbor too, you go the U?
posted by statusquo at 7:04 AM on July 1, 2002
also, ice_cream_motor, I'm in Ann Arbor too, you go the U?
posted by statusquo at 7:04 AM on July 1, 2002
dabitch: I think you mean naturalized. Also, naturalization and permanent residency are not the same thing.
posted by normy at 7:20 AM on July 1, 2002
posted by normy at 7:20 AM on July 1, 2002
Maybe now he will renew his visa on time.
As dabitch said, it's be nice to know why he overstayed by a day in 1997. Perhaps his flight out was cancelled, and he was forced to spend an extra night in the US to catch the next one. You don't know that, none of us do. And US immigration, from what I hear, is answerable to no-one but itself. Nice to presume, though.
Sorry, but the jabs he took in the article make me damn near glad that such snobbery was shuttled across The Pond.
Berkoff is something of a 'character', let's say. He's not representative, just as Dubya doesn't make me think that all Americans are idiots. But the most important jab, I think, is 'they have alienated a great ally of the United States.' And pissing off allies, on a personal and state level, is something the US appears increasingly good at.
posted by riviera at 7:31 AM on July 1, 2002
As dabitch said, it's be nice to know why he overstayed by a day in 1997. Perhaps his flight out was cancelled, and he was forced to spend an extra night in the US to catch the next one. You don't know that, none of us do. And US immigration, from what I hear, is answerable to no-one but itself. Nice to presume, though.
Sorry, but the jabs he took in the article make me damn near glad that such snobbery was shuttled across The Pond.
Berkoff is something of a 'character', let's say. He's not representative, just as Dubya doesn't make me think that all Americans are idiots. But the most important jab, I think, is 'they have alienated a great ally of the United States.' And pissing off allies, on a personal and state level, is something the US appears increasingly good at.
posted by riviera at 7:31 AM on July 1, 2002
Selective enforcement is a tool of oppression. If the law is bad, change the law.
Wise words, Norton DC. Once I lifted a temporary "No through traffic" sign(and then put it back) to drive through a pedestrian zone and park outside a Lisbon restaurant. A rival restaurant owner on the same street saw my offense and phoned the police. When the police came, they were so put off by the guy who'd ratted on me they not only let me off but, in my presence, gave the stoolie an earful about what a creep he had been. I was overjoyed.
Later that night, I boasted about this to my father, saying what a wonderful and human country Portugal was. He was furious and said that discretionary power, i.e. when laws depended on the circumstances or the moods of individuals, was the surest sign of tyranny.
In democracy, everybody had to abide by the same law, he said. So that all those fined and jailed for the same offense I'd committed, just because they were unlucky enough not to have some creep rat on them and thus displease some moralistic policeman, could justifiably say I'd been unfairly let off.
It took me a while to realize he was absolutely right. As the US immigration officials were right. It can't matter who you are. By all means, let people use the Berkoff example to make it easier for others - for instance, by campaigning to allow a week ot two's tolerance after the visa expiry date. By changing the law. Not by making exceptions which just leave things the way they were.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 7:37 AM on July 1, 2002
Wise words, Norton DC. Once I lifted a temporary "No through traffic" sign(and then put it back) to drive through a pedestrian zone and park outside a Lisbon restaurant. A rival restaurant owner on the same street saw my offense and phoned the police. When the police came, they were so put off by the guy who'd ratted on me they not only let me off but, in my presence, gave the stoolie an earful about what a creep he had been. I was overjoyed.
Later that night, I boasted about this to my father, saying what a wonderful and human country Portugal was. He was furious and said that discretionary power, i.e. when laws depended on the circumstances or the moods of individuals, was the surest sign of tyranny.
In democracy, everybody had to abide by the same law, he said. So that all those fined and jailed for the same offense I'd committed, just because they were unlucky enough not to have some creep rat on them and thus displease some moralistic policeman, could justifiably say I'd been unfairly let off.
It took me a while to realize he was absolutely right. As the US immigration officials were right. It can't matter who you are. By all means, let people use the Berkoff example to make it easier for others - for instance, by campaigning to allow a week ot two's tolerance after the visa expiry date. By changing the law. Not by making exceptions which just leave things the way they were.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 7:37 AM on July 1, 2002
He's a bit full of himself isn't he?
Yes he is.
He's also pretty mad, he'll probably regret the harshest words about "civilization" later.
But really, the US immigration system is so fucked-up, as we unfortunately realized after 9-11, that kicking a very good Shakespearean actor in the ass for a very minor, 5 year old thing really looks pretty stupid.
Overzealous is a good word in a very effective, just system.
But it's a ridiculous way of doing things in a chaotic system like the current immigration service. It's injustice, that's all.
You don't defend America this way, you just waste resources and look really stupid
like a german rocket scientist).
Nazi rocket scientist you mean, right?
They never had the slightest immigration problem, those guys
posted by matteo at 7:42 AM on July 1, 2002
Yes he is.
He's also pretty mad, he'll probably regret the harshest words about "civilization" later.
But really, the US immigration system is so fucked-up, as we unfortunately realized after 9-11, that kicking a very good Shakespearean actor in the ass for a very minor, 5 year old thing really looks pretty stupid.
Overzealous is a good word in a very effective, just system.
But it's a ridiculous way of doing things in a chaotic system like the current immigration service. It's injustice, that's all.
You don't defend America this way, you just waste resources and look really stupid
like a german rocket scientist).
Nazi rocket scientist you mean, right?
They never had the slightest immigration problem, those guys
posted by matteo at 7:42 AM on July 1, 2002
One thing the INS absolutely will not tolerate is being lied to. A standard question on many INS forms is something along the lines of 'Have you ever overstayed the period of a previous US visa?' If you answer 'no', despite a previously otherwise trivial infraction, they tend to be rather unhappy about it. I'm not suggesting that's necessarily the case with Mr Berkoff - just adding fuel to the conflagration of speculation.
posted by normy at 7:48 AM on July 1, 2002
posted by normy at 7:48 AM on July 1, 2002
Nice to presume, though.
You are right, we don't know why he overstayed by a day. But it's not like he didn't have time to prepare.
He's not representative
Agreed. I hope I didn't make it sound like I thought he was.
And pissing off allies, on a personal and state level, is something the US appears increasingly good at.
I doubt that this minor incident will have any effect on UK/US relations. If he is pissed off, well, big deal.
that kicking a very good Shakespearean actor in the ass for a very minor, 5 year old thing really looks pretty stupid.
Maybe his next play can be Don't Cry for me, Argentina.
posted by adampsyche at 7:48 AM on July 1, 2002
You are right, we don't know why he overstayed by a day. But it's not like he didn't have time to prepare.
He's not representative
Agreed. I hope I didn't make it sound like I thought he was.
And pissing off allies, on a personal and state level, is something the US appears increasingly good at.
I doubt that this minor incident will have any effect on UK/US relations. If he is pissed off, well, big deal.
that kicking a very good Shakespearean actor in the ass for a very minor, 5 year old thing really looks pretty stupid.
Maybe his next play can be Don't Cry for me, Argentina.
posted by adampsyche at 7:48 AM on July 1, 2002
Miguel, you're right, but I find it hard to believe the laws are that rigid - there must be a discretionary period, mustn't there?
posted by southisup at 7:51 AM on July 1, 2002
posted by southisup at 7:51 AM on July 1, 2002
[He's not representative, just as Dubya doesn't make me think that all Americans are idiots. ]
Trolling Zingers like that make us happy that all foreigners aren't fuckwits.
posted by revbrian at 7:56 AM on July 1, 2002
Trolling Zingers like that make us happy that all foreigners aren't fuckwits.
posted by revbrian at 7:56 AM on July 1, 2002
If you're staying until the last day on a 6 month visa, why wouldn't you stay until the last day if they extended it a few more? Most people don't push their luck like that and there may be consequences if you do.
posted by smackfu at 7:57 AM on July 1, 2002
posted by smackfu at 7:57 AM on July 1, 2002
"Evy Warshawski, the festival director, said that Berkoff was enraged at being detained by immigration officials at Detroit Metropolitan Airport. “He kept telling them ‘I’m not a terrorist, I’m an actor’,” he said."
That's a great line: "I'm not a terrorist, I'm an actor!"
posted by pardonyou? at 8:00 AM on July 1, 2002
That's a great line: "I'm not a terrorist, I'm an actor!"
posted by pardonyou? at 8:00 AM on July 1, 2002
Come on folks, he was playing ann arbor for christs sake. small taters this one. Let him spill his tripe back in SoHo.
posted by clavdivs at 8:11 AM on July 1, 2002
posted by clavdivs at 8:11 AM on July 1, 2002
It seems more a matter of poor judgement. When I was in the USAF, they had a policy of empowerment that was meant to provide a solution to a problem at the lowest possible level. IE: If an airman can solve the problem, the Captain doesn't need to. Seems to me that the Immigration officer could have applied some judgement to the situation and made it a nonevent.
"Hmm, seems you overstayed your visa by one day 5 years ago"... timestop. ONE DAY, FIVE YEARS AGO. Gears start turning.
Time Start: Looks over person in question, Englishman, mid 60's, actor, on way to performance in Ann Arbor.
Hmmmm.... Judgment section of brain backfires most heinously, DEPORT DEPORT DEPORT !!!
You don't defend America this way, you just waste resources and look really stupid
Exactly.
Might it be that his arrogance upset the immigration officer, who then in turn, turned off professionalism, and allowed his emotions to take over?
posted by a3matrix at 8:30 AM on July 1, 2002
"Hmm, seems you overstayed your visa by one day 5 years ago"... timestop. ONE DAY, FIVE YEARS AGO. Gears start turning.
Time Start: Looks over person in question, Englishman, mid 60's, actor, on way to performance in Ann Arbor.
Hmmmm.... Judgment section of brain backfires most heinously, DEPORT DEPORT DEPORT !!!
You don't defend America this way, you just waste resources and look really stupid
Exactly.
Might it be that his arrogance upset the immigration officer, who then in turn, turned off professionalism, and allowed his emotions to take over?
posted by a3matrix at 8:30 AM on July 1, 2002
If you're staying until the last day on a 6 month visa, why wouldn't you stay until the last day if they extended it a few more?
See, we don't know the facts here. I just asked around with people who travel frequently, and some of them have had US tourist visas that were only valid up to the date specified on their return ticket. (As, apparently, is likely to be the case from now on: 'Now, the INS proposes to base the admission period on the amount of time the visitor requests in order to accomplish the purpose of his or her trip.') So, if you get your passport stamped, and something happens to mean that you leave a day late, you're not likely to think that you've diddled the INS, even if technically that's what's happened.
I've no particular sympathy for Berkoff here, as he comes across as the archetypal primadonna luvvie, and he probably broke the cardinal law, which seems to be: don't piss off the US passport control guys. But I suspect this could have been handled better, and MiguelC's right: it makes you think how to prevent future cases.
posted by riviera at 8:32 AM on July 1, 2002
See, we don't know the facts here. I just asked around with people who travel frequently, and some of them have had US tourist visas that were only valid up to the date specified on their return ticket. (As, apparently, is likely to be the case from now on: 'Now, the INS proposes to base the admission period on the amount of time the visitor requests in order to accomplish the purpose of his or her trip.') So, if you get your passport stamped, and something happens to mean that you leave a day late, you're not likely to think that you've diddled the INS, even if technically that's what's happened.
I've no particular sympathy for Berkoff here, as he comes across as the archetypal primadonna luvvie, and he probably broke the cardinal law, which seems to be: don't piss off the US passport control guys. But I suspect this could have been handled better, and MiguelC's right: it makes you think how to prevent future cases.
posted by riviera at 8:32 AM on July 1, 2002
Evidently it didn't matter 5 years ago, why does it matter now?
Oh well. It's just another thing that makes me seriously think twice before I invest the time and money necessary to obtain my permanent resident status. Is this INS clerk the kind of guy I really want deciding my future? I think not.
posted by clevershark at 8:41 AM on July 1, 2002
Oh well. It's just another thing that makes me seriously think twice before I invest the time and money necessary to obtain my permanent resident status. Is this INS clerk the kind of guy I really want deciding my future? I think not.
posted by clevershark at 8:41 AM on July 1, 2002
I bet they thought he was smuggling in a dirty bomb in that bucky-ball growing on his forehead.
posted by bitdamaged at 8:56 AM on July 1, 2002
posted by bitdamaged at 8:56 AM on July 1, 2002
normy: yes that's what i misspelled. my bad.
Evidently it didn't matter 5 years ago, why does it matter now?
completely hypothetically here - what could they have done about it five years ago? he was on his way _out_ of the country. deport him? no. make a note in computer? yes.
had he gotten a visa in London at the american embassy before travel he would have ensured his right of entry. rules might be dumb but they apply equal to all.
posted by dabitch at 8:58 AM on July 1, 2002
Evidently it didn't matter 5 years ago, why does it matter now?
completely hypothetically here - what could they have done about it five years ago? he was on his way _out_ of the country. deport him? no. make a note in computer? yes.
had he gotten a visa in London at the american embassy before travel he would have ensured his right of entry. rules might be dumb but they apply equal to all.
posted by dabitch at 8:58 AM on July 1, 2002
I am not an expert on immigration or visa law. I do know, however, that it is possible to talk nice to the INS and get them to forgive this type of "oops" retroactively. I know this because I know someone who got forgiveness for an 11 day overstay, and this *after* 9/11.
So, Actor fails to push some paperwork and talk nice to a clerk across the pond thinking nobody will notice; someone does notice; heavy-handed yet within the rules hilarity ensues.
posted by ilsa at 9:01 AM on July 1, 2002
So, Actor fails to push some paperwork and talk nice to a clerk across the pond thinking nobody will notice; someone does notice; heavy-handed yet within the rules hilarity ensues.
posted by ilsa at 9:01 AM on July 1, 2002
I'm surprised that no one has made a comment yet that perhaps the INS needs to be this diligent across the board -- the are probably thousands of people roaming around throughout the country without visas, with expired visas or in other situations in which they have no legal right to be here. Making an example of a Shakespearean actor isn't going to have much of an effect on the types of "illegals" that we really need to be working to get the hell out of here. This was a waste of time.
For the record -- Can we deport Celine Dion too? Nope. She's got a green card.
posted by Dreama at 9:06 AM on July 1, 2002
For the record -- Can we deport Celine Dion too? Nope. She's got a green card.
posted by Dreama at 9:06 AM on July 1, 2002
Can we deport Celine Dion too? Nope. She's got a green card.
Having a Green Card (Permanent Resident status) does not prevent deportation. Only US citizens cannot be deported.
posted by normy at 9:56 AM on July 1, 2002
Having a Green Card (Permanent Resident status) does not prevent deportation. Only US citizens cannot be deported.
posted by normy at 9:56 AM on July 1, 2002
Having a Green Card (Permanent Resident status) does not prevent deportation. Only US citizens cannot be deported.
Take the wind out of my sails, why don't you.
Can we prosecute Canada for crimes against humanity? They gave her to us. There should be a clause in the Hague convention for this type of thing.
Or there should be, after Brian Adams. *cringe*
posted by shadow45 at 10:59 AM on July 1, 2002
Take the wind out of my sails, why don't you.
Can we prosecute Canada for crimes against humanity? They gave her to us. There should be a clause in the Hague convention for this type of thing.
Or there should be, after Brian Adams. *cringe*
posted by shadow45 at 10:59 AM on July 1, 2002
Maybe he should change his name to Mohammed Atta... then he might stand a better chance of getting through immigration.
posted by zanpo at 11:00 AM on July 1, 2002
posted by zanpo at 11:00 AM on July 1, 2002
I don't think they'll want to be deporting Celine just yet. She's gonna be awful busy next year [Be afraid...be very afraid...]
As for the ol' Berk, he must know by now that the old 'don't you know who I am'-routine might play at one of his luvvie hang-out places but not at an airport...Just ask Diana Ross ;-)
posted by i_cola at 11:14 AM on July 1, 2002
As for the ol' Berk, he must know by now that the old 'don't you know who I am'-routine might play at one of his luvvie hang-out places but not at an airport...Just ask Diana Ross ;-)
posted by i_cola at 11:14 AM on July 1, 2002
Only US citizens cannot be deported.
Be patient. They're working on it.
posted by rushmc at 11:32 AM on July 1, 2002
Be patient. They're working on it.
posted by rushmc at 11:32 AM on July 1, 2002
« Older Apple Computer buys Emagic, | Spam King Living High In The Bayou Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by ice_cream_motor at 6:36 AM on July 1, 2002