Bras
September 21, 2020 12:39 PM Subscribe
Why Girls Stop Running in the Tween Years and the simple solution to keep them active.
the study (167-page pdf)
the study (167-page pdf)
FYI - The second link takes me to a *seven* page summary, not the full report. Perhaps geofenced?
posted by Snowflake at 12:51 PM on September 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Snowflake at 12:51 PM on September 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
Nope, I just read it wrong. It starts on page 167 and I was like, yeesh! I'd better warn people!
posted by aniola at 12:52 PM on September 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by aniola at 12:52 PM on September 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
I love the idea of workshops showing teen athletes how sports bras can help them.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:10 PM on September 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:10 PM on September 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
When I ran cross country and track in high school, I had to wear two sports bras in order to keep my breasts from bouncing painfully (so glad sports bra technology has improved). One day, as my mom drove me home from a meet, she said to me "Maybe you just don't have a body for running." I'm so glad I knew that was a ridiculous idea even then. Still, I have never forgotten it. Thanks for posting. In my experience, this is a real thing.
posted by CMcG at 1:19 PM on September 21, 2020 [41 favorites]
posted by CMcG at 1:19 PM on September 21, 2020 [41 favorites]
Even as an adult, sports bra access is challenging, especially for those with larger cup sizes, who may not be able to find bras in their sizes at stores in their community where they could actually try them on and get the right fit. I order mine online and know I'll probably send back half of my orders for not fitting well.
And as always, bras are expensive as fuck. I can justify spending $60-$100 on a sports bra as an adult, because it's my body and my cash, but even parents who could afford that may balk at it for their teenage kid who might get bored and quit running anyway.
posted by hydropsyche at 2:01 PM on September 21, 2020 [32 favorites]
And as always, bras are expensive as fuck. I can justify spending $60-$100 on a sports bra as an adult, because it's my body and my cash, but even parents who could afford that may balk at it for their teenage kid who might get bored and quit running anyway.
posted by hydropsyche at 2:01 PM on September 21, 2020 [32 favorites]
... or a teenager who is going to outgrow it in thirty seconds, just like the rest of their clothing. Cross-country was a huge deal at my kids' middle school -- a third of the school was on the team -- and the staff collected used running shoes to give out to students who couldn't afford them. I don't remember ever hearing about sports bras being handed out, or specifically collected for the district's free clothing store. Hmmm. I should change that.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:48 PM on September 21, 2020 [40 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:48 PM on September 21, 2020 [40 favorites]
And as always, bras are expensive as fuck
I'm not a person that needs bras, but at least one of the people in my life that does use them has had success with military surplus sports bras made by fancy outdoorsy brand Patagonia. They are available very cheaply ($5-$7 for a brand new bra) via amazon or ebay; search for 'Patagonia capilene bra' and look for the kinda ugly tan colored sports bra. These are legit Patagonia products designed for the US military, manufactured in the USA of high quality fabric, and they hold up super well. Only three sizes so obviously no guarantees there will be a version that fits, but for $6 it could be worth trying one out if you're looking for a sports bra.
posted by soy bean at 3:11 PM on September 21, 2020 [29 favorites]
I'm not a person that needs bras, but at least one of the people in my life that does use them has had success with military surplus sports bras made by fancy outdoorsy brand Patagonia. They are available very cheaply ($5-$7 for a brand new bra) via amazon or ebay; search for 'Patagonia capilene bra' and look for the kinda ugly tan colored sports bra. These are legit Patagonia products designed for the US military, manufactured in the USA of high quality fabric, and they hold up super well. Only three sizes so obviously no guarantees there will be a version that fits, but for $6 it could be worth trying one out if you're looking for a sports bra.
posted by soy bean at 3:11 PM on September 21, 2020 [29 favorites]
Not that product redirection doesn't happen, but I'd be wary of the legitimacy of any Patagonia product on Amazon, to say nothing of products with super cheap prices and which are not available to the general public in first place.
posted by sideshow at 3:45 PM on September 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by sideshow at 3:45 PM on September 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
I'd be wary of the legitimacy of any Patagonia product on Amazon
Very fair point, I shouldn't have called them 'legit' as there's no way to be sure. FWIW we've only bought them from eBay.
posted by soy bean at 3:57 PM on September 21, 2020
Very fair point, I shouldn't have called them 'legit' as there's no way to be sure. FWIW we've only bought them from eBay.
posted by soy bean at 3:57 PM on September 21, 2020
I know you mean well, but this may be fine for someone with a small cup size, but does not provide the support that many people need, and would not even vaguely fit many with larger cup sizes, especially those with small band and large cup who have to choose between being strangled in one that fits in the band or having no support from one that fits in the cup.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:18 PM on September 21, 2020 [13 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 4:18 PM on September 21, 2020 [13 favorites]
If schools had one less assistant football coach they could probably afford to properly equip most of their female athletes. Football players don’t have to buy their own pads and helmets- why do runners have to buy their own bras?
posted by rockindata at 4:38 PM on September 21, 2020 [25 favorites]
posted by rockindata at 4:38 PM on September 21, 2020 [25 favorites]
I think soy bean was offering one inexpensive option, not trying to give a source for sports bras that are guaranteed to work for everyone. Note they specifically said "Only three sizes so obviously no guarantees there will be a version that fits". I think it's ok for people to offer incomplete solutions.
Interesting that this study covers 11-18-year-olds - I would have called that teenages, not tweens. Super interesting to read though.
I definitely had trouble running as a teenager because of bra challenges, even though I did have sports bras they weren't very good ones. I've enjoyed running much more as I've found better bras. I never before put it together in my mind that connection between bra fit and running enjoyment, even though it seems super fucking obvious now that I type it out.
posted by medusa at 4:38 PM on September 21, 2020 [18 favorites]
Interesting that this study covers 11-18-year-olds - I would have called that teenages, not tweens. Super interesting to read though.
I definitely had trouble running as a teenager because of bra challenges, even though I did have sports bras they weren't very good ones. I've enjoyed running much more as I've found better bras. I never before put it together in my mind that connection between bra fit and running enjoyment, even though it seems super fucking obvious now that I type it out.
posted by medusa at 4:38 PM on September 21, 2020 [18 favorites]
I get where they're coming from, but it feels like they're really missing the point of why boob-having-bodies become embarrassing in the tween years:
Cis boys and men won't shut up about boobs, staring at them, asking to touch them, making jokes about them, catcalling. That's what makes them embarrassing. Suddenly any physical activity in school or in public is an opportunity for cis boys and men to objectify, ridicule, and lust after you.
There isn't a bra on earth that can fix that.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 4:46 PM on September 21, 2020 [102 favorites]
Cis boys and men won't shut up about boobs, staring at them, asking to touch them, making jokes about them, catcalling. That's what makes them embarrassing. Suddenly any physical activity in school or in public is an opportunity for cis boys and men to objectify, ridicule, and lust after you.
There isn't a bra on earth that can fix that.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 4:46 PM on September 21, 2020 [102 favorites]
Before I opened this I thought, I'm going to be so pissed if boobs aren't the main reason listed. Well it took them to the second paragraph to get there but I'm still happy to that this article is indeed about boobs.
Most sports bras are so ridiculous and bad. They're designed for like yoga posing and sleeping, not running. The marketplace for a good sports bra has gotten better over the past ten years but still most sports bras really aren't meant for running. Just letting girls know that they will have to buy a special type of sports bra to run in is a huge help to them. I didn't know that until my 30's and I avoided running as a result.
Next up: swimsuits.
posted by scantee at 4:52 PM on September 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
Most sports bras are so ridiculous and bad. They're designed for like yoga posing and sleeping, not running. The marketplace for a good sports bra has gotten better over the past ten years but still most sports bras really aren't meant for running. Just letting girls know that they will have to buy a special type of sports bra to run in is a huge help to them. I didn't know that until my 30's and I avoided running as a result.
Next up: swimsuits.
posted by scantee at 4:52 PM on September 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
As an early-developing large breast haver who has been leered at plenty (childhood in India, sigh), for me it was/is still almost purely the physical discomfort that makes me not want to run. My dream is to get a breast reduction surgery or perhaps even a double mastectomy and then ... ahhhhhhh...
Don't get me wrong, the leering doesn't help. But at one point I was in an all girls' school and running, which I had been great at just a year before, became my worst nightmare because my mom wouldn't buy me a bra (let alone a sports bra) (because she was in denial about me growing up, whole other story there).
posted by MiraK at 5:26 PM on September 21, 2020 [15 favorites]
Don't get me wrong, the leering doesn't help. But at one point I was in an all girls' school and running, which I had been great at just a year before, became my worst nightmare because my mom wouldn't buy me a bra (let alone a sports bra) (because she was in denial about me growing up, whole other story there).
posted by MiraK at 5:26 PM on September 21, 2020 [15 favorites]
My daughter had her first Girls on the Run meeting today. The first organized in-person kids activity she’s been to since March. She had been to three sessions before Covid and everything got cancelled. She’s very sporty and loves running and I am putting this bra knowledge away for the near-future. I promise to be an advocate and an agitator.
For me, though, like the person above, it was not just the changing body and the boobs that were one part of my disinterest in sports, it was the whole world’s reaction to my body that really put a damper on things. Boys at school, men, the discomfort and weirdness of my mom around the buying of bras. Her lack of attention to how once my boobs got bigger I might, you know, need more bras! Did sports bras exist in 1989? No idea. First term at college and my sorority sisters got me fitted properly for a bra. But sports where people are looking at and assessing your body...euch. Like they needed encouragement. I feel like there was a dress code for all the ladies except on game day and then it was short cheerleading skirts and all the attention and unwanted touching that went along with that. The world is goddamn cruel to women and girls. Maybe it’s getting better. But definitely normalizing sports bras as “your gear” would help.
posted by amanda at 7:10 PM on September 21, 2020 [13 favorites]
For me, though, like the person above, it was not just the changing body and the boobs that were one part of my disinterest in sports, it was the whole world’s reaction to my body that really put a damper on things. Boys at school, men, the discomfort and weirdness of my mom around the buying of bras. Her lack of attention to how once my boobs got bigger I might, you know, need more bras! Did sports bras exist in 1989? No idea. First term at college and my sorority sisters got me fitted properly for a bra. But sports where people are looking at and assessing your body...euch. Like they needed encouragement. I feel like there was a dress code for all the ladies except on game day and then it was short cheerleading skirts and all the attention and unwanted touching that went along with that. The world is goddamn cruel to women and girls. Maybe it’s getting better. But definitely normalizing sports bras as “your gear” would help.
posted by amanda at 7:10 PM on September 21, 2020 [13 favorites]
this may be fine for someone with a small cup size, but does not provide the support that many people need
Totally agree that these won't work for everyone. Just to clarify though, the picture on the listing you linked to seems to be a model wearing the smallest size, for A/B cups. The same pattern is also graded for B/C cups, and there is a completely different design for C/D cups. All three are available at the link you posted, but there is only one size actually picture so it's kind of confusing.
posted by soy bean at 7:31 PM on September 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
Totally agree that these won't work for everyone. Just to clarify though, the picture on the listing you linked to seems to be a model wearing the smallest size, for A/B cups. The same pattern is also graded for B/C cups, and there is a completely different design for C/D cups. All three are available at the link you posted, but there is only one size actually picture so it's kind of confusing.
posted by soy bean at 7:31 PM on September 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
Best sportsbra I've ever had is not a sports bra, but a Gc2b binder.
I am non-binary whichmay make my dedication to them slightly motivated and why I started wearing them in the first place but OMFG things STAY IN PLACE. they also offer large sizes and will help size you if needed.
They are flattening and don't restrict my breathing. They are pricy but not high end sport bra pricey(they are under 50, the half tanks are 33!)They come in different styles and i shall buying these things to the day I die.
I would have worn these in high school when doing cross country. I was always so so so disappointed with bras even though i continued to do that and fencing through high school.
posted by AlexiaSky at 9:18 PM on September 21, 2020 [10 favorites]
I am non-binary whichmay make my dedication to them slightly motivated and why I started wearing them in the first place but OMFG things STAY IN PLACE. they also offer large sizes and will help size you if needed.
They are flattening and don't restrict my breathing. They are pricy but not high end sport bra pricey(they are under 50, the half tanks are 33!)They come in different styles and i shall buying these things to the day I die.
I would have worn these in high school when doing cross country. I was always so so so disappointed with bras even though i continued to do that and fencing through high school.
posted by AlexiaSky at 9:18 PM on September 21, 2020 [10 favorites]
Next up: swimsuits.
Yes! I remember a few girls who wouldn’t go out for the swim team because they were uncomfortable with how revealing the team’s suits were and how little breast support they offered.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:34 PM on September 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
Yes! I remember a few girls who wouldn’t go out for the swim team because they were uncomfortable with how revealing the team’s suits were and how little breast support they offered.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:34 PM on September 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
If people are going to willy nilly make recommendations for bras i will too: Panache Sport. Yes its $70 but it comes in 70 sizes. SEVENTY!! Including 28J and 38B and a whole bunches of sizes in between.
posted by vespabelle at 9:51 PM on September 21, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by vespabelle at 9:51 PM on September 21, 2020 [10 favorites]
My daughter is right at this point and everyone who could help me with it is very remote right now, so all of the bra suggestions are super-useful for me. Thanks, everybody!
posted by clawsoon at 10:07 PM on September 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 10:07 PM on September 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
That Panache is *close* to great but what really cemented my return to running as a slow-ass middle aged lady was the Wacoal sports bra. Tiny band size, very large cup size and they don’t budge. A miracle. $70 but often found for a good deal less at your Macy’s and your Nordstrom Racks if you don’t care what color you wear.
No wonder I stopped running after middle school. I was too embarrassed to even try on bras, really, let alone ask any adult for help because what I was wearing wasn’t working.
posted by charmedimsure at 12:46 AM on September 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
No wonder I stopped running after middle school. I was too embarrassed to even try on bras, really, let alone ask any adult for help because what I was wearing wasn’t working.
posted by charmedimsure at 12:46 AM on September 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
ust to clarify though, the picture on the listing you linked to seems to be a model wearing the smallest size, for A/B cups. The same pattern is also graded for B/C cups, and there is a completely different design for C/D cups. All three are available at the link you posted, but there is only one size actually picture so it's kind of confusing.
Yes, there are three sizes. They are small band/small cup, medium band/medium cup, and large band/large cup. Chests come in many many other combinations than that. As I said above, "especially those with small band and large cup who have to choose between being strangled in one that fits in the band or having no support from one that fits in the cup."
posted by hydropsyche at 5:11 AM on September 22, 2020 [6 favorites]
Yes, there are three sizes. They are small band/small cup, medium band/medium cup, and large band/large cup. Chests come in many many other combinations than that. As I said above, "especially those with small band and large cup who have to choose between being strangled in one that fits in the band or having no support from one that fits in the cup."
posted by hydropsyche at 5:11 AM on September 22, 2020 [6 favorites]
Another early developer here, and today in my 40s I don't think I would run even if I were being chased by a bear. I've completely trained my brain to eliminate running as a possibility--but maybe one of these bra suggestions will help. Thanks for sharing them!
posted by orrnyereg at 7:02 AM on September 22, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 7:02 AM on September 22, 2020 [5 favorites]
Football players don’t have to buy their own pads and helmets- why do runners have to buy their own bras?
I played football, and this doesn't get there. The only thing we had to buy (if we wanted) was shoes, and the school even offered heavily subsidized pairs of those too.
Jockstrap (kind of a bra-equivalent) was free, along with socks, shorts, and t-shirt, and usually 2 of each.
I also had to buy my own track shoes.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:08 AM on September 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
I played football, and this doesn't get there. The only thing we had to buy (if we wanted) was shoes, and the school even offered heavily subsidized pairs of those too.
Jockstrap (kind of a bra-equivalent) was free, along with socks, shorts, and t-shirt, and usually 2 of each.
I also had to buy my own track shoes.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:08 AM on September 22, 2020 [4 favorites]
I get where they're coming from, but it feels like they're really missing the point of why boob-having-bodies become embarrassing in the tween years:
Ugh. Large breasts run in my family. I'm currently a K cup, my sister is probably somewhere around an I, etc. I had to start wearing a bra at the age of 10 or 11. Middle school was hell. There was one guy who refused to call me by my name, he just called me "watermelons". There was another boy, though a few joined him, who would sneak up on me and stab me in the breast with a safety pin. I believe it started as a joke to see if they would pop, but it didn't end after the first time. In high school shit like that continued. I overheard two boys on the bus having a conversation about how they like to watch my chest bounce on the bus.
posted by FirstMateKate at 8:31 AM on September 22, 2020 [11 favorites]
Ugh. Large breasts run in my family. I'm currently a K cup, my sister is probably somewhere around an I, etc. I had to start wearing a bra at the age of 10 or 11. Middle school was hell. There was one guy who refused to call me by my name, he just called me "watermelons". There was another boy, though a few joined him, who would sneak up on me and stab me in the breast with a safety pin. I believe it started as a joke to see if they would pop, but it didn't end after the first time. In high school shit like that continued. I overheard two boys on the bus having a conversation about how they like to watch my chest bounce on the bus.
posted by FirstMateKate at 8:31 AM on September 22, 2020 [11 favorites]
For folks who have never bought a sports bra, I highly recommend looking at Title 9 Sports bra fitting guide. Even if you don't end up buying from them, it will help you get an idea of the range of styles available for your particular band/cup size, and their advice about fitting is sound. There are some amazing technologies out there, and there is a sports bra for everyone.
posted by hydropsyche at 9:03 AM on September 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 9:03 AM on September 22, 2020 [3 favorites]
~~~ I don't think I would run even if I were being chased by a bear.
posted by orrnyereg at 9:02 AM on September 22
I logged in just to fave this comment -- it's the funniest thing I've read in two weeks, my first laugh of the day -- thanx!
posted by dancestoblue at 9:29 AM on September 22, 2020
posted by orrnyereg at 9:02 AM on September 22
I logged in just to fave this comment -- it's the funniest thing I've read in two weeks, my first laugh of the day -- thanx!
posted by dancestoblue at 9:29 AM on September 22, 2020
I absolutely stopped doing something I loved, dancing, because of being uncomfortable with my breasts. Leotards and other dance gear just weren't meant for someone with huge breasts, and for the most part I made due with wearing two leotards at a time, or more structured/substantial leotards. Then at a recital one of the stage moms looked me up and down and commented (in the wings, as I was about to go perform) that my breasts were bigger than hers. I was 16. But it was absolutely the reason I stopped dancing and I am so sad for all the years I missed out because my breasts (and the patriarchy) got in the way.
posted by stripesandplaid at 11:42 AM on September 22, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by stripesandplaid at 11:42 AM on September 22, 2020 [9 favorites]
Yes, there are three sizes.
This is kind of late but thanks Hydropsyche for the pushback on this, I really appreciate it. I did indeed mean well but I see how my comments/suggestion could exclude people, especially those that aren’t very familiar with available sports bra options or people that don’t feel there are sports bras that would work for them because of their chest size/shape. It was dumb of me not to think in those terms especially considering the content of the OP and the many excellent comments here sharing traumatic experiences around this topic. Sometimes incomplete solutions can be hurtful without the right context. So thanks again for doing the work of providing that context, and your link to the excellent Title9 guide.
And thanks to everyone who shared their stories here. Hearing about programs like the one in the OP gives me hope, but still. Patriarchy is just fucking terrible. If most men had boobs Nike alone would be spending billions on bra r+d.
posted by soy bean at 10:19 AM on September 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
This is kind of late but thanks Hydropsyche for the pushback on this, I really appreciate it. I did indeed mean well but I see how my comments/suggestion could exclude people, especially those that aren’t very familiar with available sports bra options or people that don’t feel there are sports bras that would work for them because of their chest size/shape. It was dumb of me not to think in those terms especially considering the content of the OP and the many excellent comments here sharing traumatic experiences around this topic. Sometimes incomplete solutions can be hurtful without the right context. So thanks again for doing the work of providing that context, and your link to the excellent Title9 guide.
And thanks to everyone who shared their stories here. Hearing about programs like the one in the OP gives me hope, but still. Patriarchy is just fucking terrible. If most men had boobs Nike alone would be spending billions on bra r+d.
posted by soy bean at 10:19 AM on September 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
FREE JOCK STRAPS?!?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:09 PM on September 23, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:09 PM on September 23, 2020 [8 favorites]
Related: Serena Williams struggled to find a good sports bra for years, and then her mum found an Australian brand Berlei while they were here for the Australian Open. She claims she'd buy 50 at a time to take back to the US! (I think the brand may now be in Macy's).
posted by cholly at 1:44 PM on September 24, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by cholly at 1:44 PM on September 24, 2020 [3 favorites]
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I was totally a girl who stopped running in the tween years.
posted by aniola at 12:50 PM on September 21, 2020 [8 favorites]