What Is the Sound of Thought?
December 2, 2020 8:38 AM Subscribe
What Is the Sound of Thought? (The MIT Press Reader): Why do we include the sounds of words in our thoughts when we think without speaking? Are they just an illusion induced by our memory of overt speech? Related: That Little Voice in Your Head, If You Have It, May Be Aligning Your Thoughts (Neuroscience News)
Interesting. I've found myself occasionally writing down things that rhyme with whatever's in my head, especially if there's a number involved (hear "when" in my head, write down "ten" or "10"). Even more so when typing than writing longhand.
(then again, i do mental arithmetic with images of the digits tetris-ing around. Seven plus five is seven, and the round part of the five nests in on top to make ten, and the top "flag" of the five is two more on top of that-ten and two, AKA twelve.)
posted by notsnot at 9:05 AM on December 2, 2020 [6 favorites]
(then again, i do mental arithmetic with images of the digits tetris-ing around. Seven plus five is seven, and the round part of the five nests in on top to make ten, and the top "flag" of the five is two more on top of that-ten and two, AKA twelve.)
posted by notsnot at 9:05 AM on December 2, 2020 [6 favorites]
This year the sound of my thoughts have mostly been some variation of “GAAAAAAAAAA”
posted by gottabefunky at 9:10 AM on December 2, 2020 [16 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 9:10 AM on December 2, 2020 [16 favorites]
Ha, I immediately thought of Wittgenstein and I’m glad to see him at the end of the article.
For people with normal hearing, speech, language, and thought are all intrinsically connected and are inseparable. The brain is an analog processor the converts speech to thought and back again, with the signals to and from the air being preserved almost perfectly and analogously by the brain. These open brain experiments on the coming and going directions of this phenomenon are getting common (for example Mesgarani at Columbia has been doing similar experiments recording speech from the open brain and then converting the recorded brain activity back to the original speech signal).
Within 25 years I think we will have direct brain-to-brain thought transmission without the need for sound transmission through the air. That is where this is going.
posted by Lutoslawski at 9:19 AM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
For people with normal hearing, speech, language, and thought are all intrinsically connected and are inseparable. The brain is an analog processor the converts speech to thought and back again, with the signals to and from the air being preserved almost perfectly and analogously by the brain. These open brain experiments on the coming and going directions of this phenomenon are getting common (for example Mesgarani at Columbia has been doing similar experiments recording speech from the open brain and then converting the recorded brain activity back to the original speech signal).
Within 25 years I think we will have direct brain-to-brain thought transmission without the need for sound transmission through the air. That is where this is going.
posted by Lutoslawski at 9:19 AM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
Within 25 years I think we will have direct brain-to-brain thought transmission without the need for sound transmission through the air. That is where this is going.
My first thought was to say that this was possibly the most dystopian horror I could think of. But then, I thought of my father who lost his hearing completely, late in life, and who now due to mask wearing cannot even rely on reading lips anymore. I thought of folks who may not for whatever reason have the power of verbal speech. But for me, personally, my immediate impulse is to cringe in horror that it will be even harder to filter the things I shouldn't say out loud, and for the mothers whose children will broadcast every passing thought or need DIRECTLY INTO THEIR MINDS.
posted by MustangMamaVE at 9:59 AM on December 2, 2020 [9 favorites]
My first thought was to say that this was possibly the most dystopian horror I could think of. But then, I thought of my father who lost his hearing completely, late in life, and who now due to mask wearing cannot even rely on reading lips anymore. I thought of folks who may not for whatever reason have the power of verbal speech. But for me, personally, my immediate impulse is to cringe in horror that it will be even harder to filter the things I shouldn't say out loud, and for the mothers whose children will broadcast every passing thought or need DIRECTLY INTO THEIR MINDS.
posted by MustangMamaVE at 9:59 AM on December 2, 2020 [9 favorites]
^Yeah, it's a double edged sword. The impetus for a lot of this research is from the hearing loss/aphasia/other comm disorders angle, but there are some pretty dystopian implications for sure. It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds.
posted by Lutoslawski at 10:03 AM on December 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Lutoslawski at 10:03 AM on December 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
direct from brain machine transcribed musical thoughts: do de-doo oop um-ch' oomp k'k' doo tittle ti dah hum doodle
posted by 20 year lurk at 10:04 AM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by 20 year lurk at 10:04 AM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
I've noticed this since I was a child. Reading quickly produces understanding but no words in my thoughts. Thinking about something produces ideas but not words. The percentages listed in the second link suggest that this is not uncommon. Perhaps direct brain-to-brain thought transmission will be less effective for me?
posted by mdoar at 10:36 AM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by mdoar at 10:36 AM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
haha thinky brain go brrrrr
posted by Foosnark at 10:36 AM on December 2, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by Foosnark at 10:36 AM on December 2, 2020 [15 favorites]
This year the sound of my thoughts have mostly been some variation of “GAAAAAAAAAA”
This Simpson's scene (full) has taken up semi-permanent residence in my head the last few years.
Within 25 years I think we will have direct brain-to-brain thought transmission without the need for sound transmission through the air. That is where this is going.
Along the hearing/aphasia line, just yesterday I saw something on TV about cochlear implants, and how they found out the brain doesn't really care where the signals come from, they more or less just have to spark in the right order and the brain will pass it along as "hearing."
posted by rhizome at 10:42 AM on December 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
This Simpson's scene (full) has taken up semi-permanent residence in my head the last few years.
Within 25 years I think we will have direct brain-to-brain thought transmission without the need for sound transmission through the air. That is where this is going.
Along the hearing/aphasia line, just yesterday I saw something on TV about cochlear implants, and how they found out the brain doesn't really care where the signals come from, they more or less just have to spark in the right order and the brain will pass it along as "hearing."
posted by rhizome at 10:42 AM on December 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
CheesesOfBrazil: That was me until I was somewhere around four years old. One of my more distinct (and possibly unusual) memories from that time is that, while I was learning to read, I became conscious of my own growing propensity to think verbally as opposed to nonverbally.
I had the same experience. I remember specifically telling my mother I could now speak without making sound. "That's called thinking," she told me. I've been talking to myself, in my head, ever since.
posted by beagle at 10:49 AM on December 2, 2020 [13 favorites]
I had the same experience. I remember specifically telling my mother I could now speak without making sound. "That's called thinking," she told me. I've been talking to myself, in my head, ever since.
posted by beagle at 10:49 AM on December 2, 2020 [13 favorites]
20 year lurk, that sort of idea has been my dream for years. I think I'm somewhat musical and play a little but my skills don't match what I'm composing mentally. I'd love some sort of neuro-interface that would take what I'm actually "hearing" in my head and synthesize it into audio.
posted by downtohisturtles at 10:51 AM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 10:51 AM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
Everyone in this thread should track down the excellent Ted Chiang story "The Truth of Fact, the Truth of Feeling." Wikipedia's description:
In the near future, a journalist observes how the world, his daughter, and he himself are affected by "Remem", a form of lifelogging whose advanced search algorithms effectively grant its users eidetic memory of everything that ever happened to them, and the ability to perfectly and objectively share those memories. In a parallel narrative strand, a Tiv man is one of the first of his people to learn to read and write, and discovers that this may not be compatible with oral tradition.
The wonderful thing about this story is that it lays out in detail how learning to read and write changes the way you see the world, and also how post-writing forms of communication might do the same, but it doesn't take a firm stance in favor of or against any of those things. It shows how each of them does more than merely convey information in a different way - they all change the way people think and the way they perceive and shape the world they live in, and those changes can have both positive and negative effects on society. I can't recommend it enough.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:08 AM on December 2, 2020 [16 favorites]
In the near future, a journalist observes how the world, his daughter, and he himself are affected by "Remem", a form of lifelogging whose advanced search algorithms effectively grant its users eidetic memory of everything that ever happened to them, and the ability to perfectly and objectively share those memories. In a parallel narrative strand, a Tiv man is one of the first of his people to learn to read and write, and discovers that this may not be compatible with oral tradition.
The wonderful thing about this story is that it lays out in detail how learning to read and write changes the way you see the world, and also how post-writing forms of communication might do the same, but it doesn't take a firm stance in favor of or against any of those things. It shows how each of them does more than merely convey information in a different way - they all change the way people think and the way they perceive and shape the world they live in, and those changes can have both positive and negative effects on society. I can't recommend it enough.
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:08 AM on December 2, 2020 [16 favorites]
^ first of all, I haven't been this excited about a book recommendation in a while. Thank you for mentioning Chiang's work!!
second of all, I have never learned to perform music and the question of "How musical is a person?" does strike me.. We've all grown up in a time where recorded music has been more-or-less a constant in our lives. I'm with downtohisturtles.. imagine a composition process that leads directly from thought, to the production of a work? Really compelling ideas.. and a nice departure from the dread-filled content that seems to dominate our discussions so much of the time.
posted by elkevelvet at 11:27 AM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
second of all, I have never learned to perform music and the question of "How musical is a person?" does strike me.. We've all grown up in a time where recorded music has been more-or-less a constant in our lives. I'm with downtohisturtles.. imagine a composition process that leads directly from thought, to the production of a work? Really compelling ideas.. and a nice departure from the dread-filled content that seems to dominate our discussions so much of the time.
posted by elkevelvet at 11:27 AM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
Thanks for this post. I've been thinking of making an ask about the voices in my head, but couldn't figure out how to not look too crazy.
There are almost always voices in my head. Sometimes my own, which I guess is "thinking", sometimes fragments of something I've heard or read, sometimes music (sometimes I hear music with all the instruments and voices, and it frustrates me endlessly that I can't sing out one of the elements). I do visualizations for meditation, since that uses so much brainpower that the voices are shut down.
Most of my dreams are very visual and less wordy, which is nice when they aren't nightmares.
posted by mumimor at 12:14 PM on December 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
There are almost always voices in my head. Sometimes my own, which I guess is "thinking", sometimes fragments of something I've heard or read, sometimes music (sometimes I hear music with all the instruments and voices, and it frustrates me endlessly that I can't sing out one of the elements). I do visualizations for meditation, since that uses so much brainpower that the voices are shut down.
Most of my dreams are very visual and less wordy, which is nice when they aren't nightmares.
posted by mumimor at 12:14 PM on December 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
We've all grown up in a time where recorded music has been more-or-less a constant in our lives.
We've also all grown up in a time with pervasive recorded acting and I do wonder how that has shaped us.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:32 PM on December 2, 2020 [6 favorites]
We've also all grown up in a time with pervasive recorded acting and I do wonder how that has shaped us.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:32 PM on December 2, 2020 [6 favorites]
Now you made me think about it, as I read this thread it's like it's being spoken aloud, but there's no voice - my brain just rather jumps straight to the part where it understood it as if it had been spoken.
My own thoughts work the same way; a sort of silent cacophony, all the time. I can put any voice I can imagine if I want to - this currently sounds like a bad impression of Sean Connery in my bone box - but there's no vanilla one, not even my own.
I'm curious now - do others 'hear' a voice itself? And do different thoughts have different voices? Those who think in text, does in come in colours?
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 12:57 PM on December 2, 2020
My own thoughts work the same way; a sort of silent cacophony, all the time. I can put any voice I can imagine if I want to - this currently sounds like a bad impression of Sean Connery in my bone box - but there's no vanilla one, not even my own.
I'm curious now - do others 'hear' a voice itself? And do different thoughts have different voices? Those who think in text, does in come in colours?
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 12:57 PM on December 2, 2020
I'm curious now - do others 'hear' a voice itself? And do different thoughts have different voices? Those who think in text, does in come in colours?
I hear a lot of voices. Some of them speak foreign languages that I can't pronounce, but they can. Thoughts that are my own original thoughts come in my inner voice, but something I heard or read will be in the original voice (imagined if I don't know that person's voice).
I've never in my life seen a text in my mind, though I frequently see spaces, objects, artworks and geometries.
posted by mumimor at 1:26 PM on December 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
I hear a lot of voices. Some of them speak foreign languages that I can't pronounce, but they can. Thoughts that are my own original thoughts come in my inner voice, but something I heard or read will be in the original voice (imagined if I don't know that person's voice).
I've never in my life seen a text in my mind, though I frequently see spaces, objects, artworks and geometries.
posted by mumimor at 1:26 PM on December 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
“It’s much easier to see physical differences, that someone can jump higher than you, or run faster,” says Gary Lupyan, a UW–Madison psychology professor who studies language and cognition. “But the masked differences—differences in how you perceive something or how you think about something—those are much harder to discover. You sort of have to have people comparing notes.”
I'm often fascinated by the often surprisingly substantial differences in perception I have from my spouse: I have considerably better vision in low light but worse depth perception; they have low frequency hearing loss but can hear a good second of a singing mouse song before I can, up in the early onset of the song before it drops in frequency enough I can perceive it; my olfaction is less sensitive to some things (notably the presence of certain bitter compounds) but more sensitive to others. It's endlessly interesting to me, thinking about how our preferences about our lives are shaped by the Umwelt of our sensory experiences, overlapping but distinct as they are. (And of course there is another aspect of that multisensory perception that is also shaped by differences in our bodies--I have much longer limbs and a much shorter torso, such that approximately two inches' height difference when standing becomes magnified to nearly six when seated--and that will influence a sensory perceptionscape, too.)
I think partly in speech and partly in colorscapes (with and without motion attached). Words are cross-referenced by the color of their roots in my head, and nearly everything has a distinct color and texture. If I think in terms of a voice, I'm not entirely sure whether it's a modified version of the same one I speak with, but it doesn't change; however, I'm also very prone to echolalic repetition in my head, and when I'm tired after a loud busy day it's common for me to 'hear' things that were said to me earlier in the day. I would guesstimate that it's approximately as common for my brain to "echo" sounds at me as it is for me to think in a spoken voice.
posted by sciatrix at 1:27 PM on December 2, 2020 [8 favorites]
I'm often fascinated by the often surprisingly substantial differences in perception I have from my spouse: I have considerably better vision in low light but worse depth perception; they have low frequency hearing loss but can hear a good second of a singing mouse song before I can, up in the early onset of the song before it drops in frequency enough I can perceive it; my olfaction is less sensitive to some things (notably the presence of certain bitter compounds) but more sensitive to others. It's endlessly interesting to me, thinking about how our preferences about our lives are shaped by the Umwelt of our sensory experiences, overlapping but distinct as they are. (And of course there is another aspect of that multisensory perception that is also shaped by differences in our bodies--I have much longer limbs and a much shorter torso, such that approximately two inches' height difference when standing becomes magnified to nearly six when seated--and that will influence a sensory perceptionscape, too.)
I think partly in speech and partly in colorscapes (with and without motion attached). Words are cross-referenced by the color of their roots in my head, and nearly everything has a distinct color and texture. If I think in terms of a voice, I'm not entirely sure whether it's a modified version of the same one I speak with, but it doesn't change; however, I'm also very prone to echolalic repetition in my head, and when I'm tired after a loud busy day it's common for me to 'hear' things that were said to me earlier in the day. I would guesstimate that it's approximately as common for my brain to "echo" sounds at me as it is for me to think in a spoken voice.
posted by sciatrix at 1:27 PM on December 2, 2020 [8 favorites]
That was me until I was somewhere around four years old. One of my more distinct (and possibly unusual) memories from that time is that, while I was learning to read, I became conscious of my own growing propensity to think verbally as opposed to nonverbally.
I totally get this - similar thing happened when I learned to type in high school - I started “typing” in my head everything that I thought, said or heard. It was maddening and I kinda regretted it. I don’t remember when it finally subsided but I think it was years.
posted by double bubble at 1:36 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
I totally get this - similar thing happened when I learned to type in high school - I started “typing” in my head everything that I thought, said or heard. It was maddening and I kinda regretted it. I don’t remember when it finally subsided but I think it was years.
posted by double bubble at 1:36 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
For my part - I hear a voice for most thoughts. My own voice and others.
posted by double bubble at 1:37 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by double bubble at 1:37 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
Me too.
I was reading Rick Hanson's book 'Just One Thing' a few years back, which has a bunch of stuff about the voices in one's head. (Mostly overly self-critical)
He says something like, 'and if you're thinking "I don't hear voices in my head", then that's the voice I'm talking about.'
posted by MtDewd at 1:48 PM on December 2, 2020 [7 favorites]
I was reading Rick Hanson's book 'Just One Thing' a few years back, which has a bunch of stuff about the voices in one's head. (Mostly overly self-critical)
He says something like, 'and if you're thinking "I don't hear voices in my head", then that's the voice I'm talking about.'
posted by MtDewd at 1:48 PM on December 2, 2020 [7 favorites]
Meditation teachers from the (mostly) Hindu/Buddhist traditions often speak of "the mind" as an obstacle to enlightenment/direct experience. I think they are referring to this inner voice, although it's hard to say. We English-speakers can't even come to much agreement about what we mean when we say "the mind."
I think that mantra-based techniques like TM hijack this mental process by using it to repeat short phrases. This might effectively still that thinking-in-words activity.
I know that in moments of meditative absorption, that inner voice disappears. Nothing wrong with thinking, but it's nice to take a break from it now and then. Sometimes a little wool-gathering can result in some great ideas, but often that inner conversation is non-productive or counter-productive.
posted by kozad at 1:59 PM on December 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
I think that mantra-based techniques like TM hijack this mental process by using it to repeat short phrases. This might effectively still that thinking-in-words activity.
I know that in moments of meditative absorption, that inner voice disappears. Nothing wrong with thinking, but it's nice to take a break from it now and then. Sometimes a little wool-gathering can result in some great ideas, but often that inner conversation is non-productive or counter-productive.
posted by kozad at 1:59 PM on December 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
As I am typing this message, I am saying it inside of my head, though slower than usual because I am actively conscious of it.
But it is words and sentences and it happens all the time when I write something.
But if I was thinking of going for, say, a walk, I would not have a conversation with myself about going for a walk.
I can't even conceive of how that would go.
posted by madajb at 2:00 PM on December 2, 2020
But it is words and sentences and it happens all the time when I write something.
But if I was thinking of going for, say, a walk, I would not have a conversation with myself about going for a walk.
I can't even conceive of how that would go.
posted by madajb at 2:00 PM on December 2, 2020
Wouldn't it be nice to go for a walk? I'm not getting out enough, what with this virus and all. Maybe I should lift weights instead. I haven't done that for a couple of days. Hey, I could go to the store; it's only a mile or so round-trip. I should bring a mask. OK, I've got socks on, I wonder what kind of shoes I should wear? Those over by the piano are a little worn out, and there's still some ice on the sidewalk, so maybe some boots would be good.
That's how it goes for me, although not those exact words. I don't think it's awfully compelling; that's why I like to take a break from it now and then. You mean you don't talk to yourself like that? Some people talk out loud if they live alone. But that's for another post.
posted by kozad at 2:05 PM on December 2, 2020 [8 favorites]
That's how it goes for me, although not those exact words. I don't think it's awfully compelling; that's why I like to take a break from it now and then. You mean you don't talk to yourself like that? Some people talk out loud if they live alone. But that's for another post.
posted by kozad at 2:05 PM on December 2, 2020 [8 favorites]
I'm curious now - do others 'hear' a voice itself? And do different thoughts have different voices?My inner voice is more of a conception of a voice, no actual—erm, virtual?—"sound", per se. So I don't even recognize it necessarily as my own voice, because it's just the idea of the words spoken aloud. (This is sort of like my level of aphantasia, where I can conceptualize, e.g., the apple but not actually—erm, virtually?—visualize it.)
posted by bixfrankonis at 2:13 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
The second article references the Blake Ross post which appeared on Metafilter previously.
The idea of language as signal, some variation in a value over time, is kind of mathematically interesting. The forms of communication that we call language do tend to have some linear sequence to them. Anything that doesn't is usually organized spatially instead, and starts blending into what we call depiction more than language.
posted by RobotHero at 2:22 PM on December 2, 2020
The idea of language as signal, some variation in a value over time, is kind of mathematically interesting. The forms of communication that we call language do tend to have some linear sequence to them. Anything that doesn't is usually organized spatially instead, and starts blending into what we call depiction more than language.
posted by RobotHero at 2:22 PM on December 2, 2020
He says something like, 'and if you're thinking "I don't hear voices in my head", then that's the voice I'm talking about.'
But I don't think that as words. I think it as the sensation that you might have when making a non-verbal sound of disagreement, but without the sound. When I ponder what to have for lunch I don't have a chat with myself; I imagine the different states of myself in each possibility, and I act on the one which pleases me the most. About the only time I verbalise things is when I'm composing verbal expressions - e.g., when typing this I "hear" the words as I type them. Otherwise, no.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:28 PM on December 2, 2020 [6 favorites]
But I don't think that as words. I think it as the sensation that you might have when making a non-verbal sound of disagreement, but without the sound. When I ponder what to have for lunch I don't have a chat with myself; I imagine the different states of myself in each possibility, and I act on the one which pleases me the most. About the only time I verbalise things is when I'm composing verbal expressions - e.g., when typing this I "hear" the words as I type them. Otherwise, no.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:28 PM on December 2, 2020 [6 favorites]
I'm struck by the transition that happens with a lot of people when they are learning to read. They stop reading the words by "voice" which they've done up to then. Even if they've stopped actually saying the words out loud you can see them moving their lips as they shape the words silently to themselves.
After that => just voice in head reading the words => other things that replace words mixed in with the words.
For example, when I was doing linear algebra "thinking" in matrix operations instead of language. Or "thinking" using sense impressions as shorthand for concepts. Or...
posted by aleph at 3:53 PM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
After that => just voice in head reading the words => other things that replace words mixed in with the words.
For example, when I was doing linear algebra "thinking" in matrix operations instead of language. Or "thinking" using sense impressions as shorthand for concepts. Or...
posted by aleph at 3:53 PM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
What is the Sound of Thought?
One hand clapping.
posted by zengargoyle at 3:53 PM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
One hand clapping.
posted by zengargoyle at 3:53 PM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
Kozad: Meditation teachers from the (mostly) Hindu/Buddhist traditions often speak of "the mind" as an obstacle to enlightenment/direct experience. I think they are referring to this inner voice, although it's hard to say. We English-speakers can't even come to much agreement about what we mean when we say "the mind."
And in Japanese and Chinese, the word for "mind", shin (心) also means "heart", leaving out a distinction that seems very important to us in English.
I think it's everything - inner voice, inner beliefs, structure of language, acculturation... endless hours of tv and all your parents and other voices. A lot of that stuff you call "me", and its underlying vectors become apparent with meditation (which also might not be a great answer).
13th C. Zen writer Dogen says it's "leaping clear of the many and the one" (Genjo Koan), which sounds like a perfect encapsulation of the problem. "The mind" is what we have available to talk about this stuff, it's the obstacle, and it's not going anywhere. So where does that leave us? Dogen is pretty clear elsewhere that the "mind/heart" is also the vehicle for enlightenment, just not in the way we expect.
posted by sneebler at 7:13 PM on December 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
And in Japanese and Chinese, the word for "mind", shin (心) also means "heart", leaving out a distinction that seems very important to us in English.
I think it's everything - inner voice, inner beliefs, structure of language, acculturation... endless hours of tv and all your parents and other voices. A lot of that stuff you call "me", and its underlying vectors become apparent with meditation (which also might not be a great answer).
13th C. Zen writer Dogen says it's "leaping clear of the many and the one" (Genjo Koan), which sounds like a perfect encapsulation of the problem. "The mind" is what we have available to talk about this stuff, it's the obstacle, and it's not going anywhere. So where does that leave us? Dogen is pretty clear elsewhere that the "mind/heart" is also the vehicle for enlightenment, just not in the way we expect.
posted by sneebler at 7:13 PM on December 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
downtohisturtles & elkevelvet: I'd love some sort of neuro-interface that would take what I'm actually "hearing" in my head and synthesize it into audio.
There's a pretty great episode of Futurama where Fry's intestines get invaded by intelligent worms when he eats an egg salad sandwich from an intergalactic gas station. The worms' deal is that they'll enhance his body a bit and, fortunately for the plot, his ability to play music if he lets them stay there. He becomes a wizard on the Holophonor and impresses Leela. But it was all for nought, because when they get rid of the worms, his musical abilities go too. There's a lesson in there somewhere.
posted by sneebler at 7:29 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
There's a pretty great episode of Futurama where Fry's intestines get invaded by intelligent worms when he eats an egg salad sandwich from an intergalactic gas station. The worms' deal is that they'll enhance his body a bit and, fortunately for the plot, his ability to play music if he lets them stay there. He becomes a wizard on the Holophonor and impresses Leela. But it was all for nought, because when they get rid of the worms, his musical abilities go too. There's a lesson in there somewhere.
posted by sneebler at 7:29 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
I have also longed for a thought-to-music transcriber as a musician and composer, but I’ve come to believe pretty decisively that, as real as those thoughts seem, it’s a lot like the case of feeling internally that you can comprehensively articulate something and then struggling for the words when you finally try to do it out loud. The experience, at least for me and in the cases where the music in my mind seemingly exceeds the boundaries of my musical ear, is actually just the sense of having heard the sounds rather than the sense of actually hearing them. Except when it’s on hallucinogens, those sounds are REAL and I won’t be convinced otherwise and I’d give an organ to have that brainwave transcriber available in such scenarios
posted by invitapriore at 8:44 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by invitapriore at 8:44 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
I’d like to understand why I can “say” a difficult to pronounce word in my head but not actually say it out loud.
posted by double bubble at 8:55 PM on December 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by double bubble at 8:55 PM on December 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
I was in my 20s before I learned that other people hear a voice narrating when they read. I definitely do not! It's hard to say what my thoughts are like, because describing them inevitably brings them into the world of words, but I don't "hear" myself thinking unless I'm specifically thinking about words, and I suspect that for others, it's mostly non-verbal.
In my early 20s I had to take a test, for the LSATs, about how fast I read, and the average for LSAT-takers was around 150-wpm; but I read around 600-wpm, and it is 100% not about thinking fast, but 100% about READING fast because I don't translate my thoughts into words unless it's required.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:12 PM on December 2, 2020 [6 favorites]
In my early 20s I had to take a test, for the LSATs, about how fast I read, and the average for LSAT-takers was around 150-wpm; but I read around 600-wpm, and it is 100% not about thinking fast, but 100% about READING fast because I don't translate my thoughts into words unless it's required.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:12 PM on December 2, 2020 [6 favorites]
This is something I've wondered about, but I guess now I know. Thinking in a voice has always seemed odd to me but then I could never really conceive of any other way. In terms of what the voice is, it's not exactly my own nor anyone else's; I try to keep it as neutral as possible. If I don't, especially when I'm tired or lose my mental focus, I start thinking in all kinds of tones and shades of emotion in the voices of random people I know, have heard, or even just imagine. I hate when that happens as I seem to lose control of my thoughts, like I'm interrupting my flow of self and reprogramming my brain in unknown ways. On the other hand, if I think without a voice it seems like I'm not keeping track of my thoughts either.
posted by blue shadows at 9:15 PM on December 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by blue shadows at 9:15 PM on December 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
My sister was learning to talk at the same time I was learning to read and write and that got me thinking about those steps and just how much I was losing in the process. I was quickly losing memories and left with holes where I knew they had been and what was good about that? The thought that explained all others was just gone. Forever. I might say something like "rosebud" when I die and nobody will ever know wtf I'm going on about.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 9:19 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr. Yuck at 9:19 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
... I start thinking in all kinds of tones and shades of emotion in the voices of random people I know, ...
Yes. This. I have constant feedback running in my brain made up of the voices of my most critical friends and family. Yes, I know - I need therapy.
posted by double bubble at 9:21 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
Yes. This. I have constant feedback running in my brain made up of the voices of my most critical friends and family. Yes, I know - I need therapy.
posted by double bubble at 9:21 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
Yes, I probably need therapy too... Actually, it's not necessarily overtly critical anymore, it's just such a repetitive but random mix I can't keep up.
posted by blue shadows at 9:26 PM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by blue shadows at 9:26 PM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
I’d like to understand why I can “say” a difficult to pronounce word in my head but not actually say it out loud.
Do people with accents have the same accent when thinking? Or if they lisp, do they lisp in their heads?And do people who stutter ever "stutter" when thinking?
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:20 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
Do people with accents have the same accent when thinking? Or if they lisp, do they lisp in their heads?And do people who stutter ever "stutter" when thinking?
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:20 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
I did notice in about July that my inner monologue's voice got muffled, as if he'd put on a mask like everyone else. That was kind of startling. Either it's gone away or I've gotten used to it.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 11:06 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 11:06 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
I wonder if people who think predominantly in words are more likely to believe in the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis.
posted by pickles_have_souls at 12:09 AM on December 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by pickles_have_souls at 12:09 AM on December 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
I am endlessly fascinated by this. My partner does not think in words at all, and was confused when I described it. I think in words so much that I don't even remember the colors of things, but the words for the colors of things. When I do math in my head, it is in words. When I "mentally rotate a cube" it is in words.
posted by Nothing at 2:58 AM on December 3, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by Nothing at 2:58 AM on December 3, 2020 [5 favorites]
I think that mantra-based techniques like TM hijack this mental process by using it to repeat short phrases. This might effectively still that thinking-in-words activity.
I know that in moments of meditative absorption, that inner voice disappears. Nothing wrong with thinking, but it's nice to take a break from it now and then. Sometimes a little wool-gathering can result in some great ideas, but often that inner conversation is non-productive or counter-productive.
I wonder if this ties in with Semantic Satiation where when you say a word over and over it eventually becomes temporarily meaningless to you.
posted by srboisvert at 5:01 AM on December 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
I know that in moments of meditative absorption, that inner voice disappears. Nothing wrong with thinking, but it's nice to take a break from it now and then. Sometimes a little wool-gathering can result in some great ideas, but often that inner conversation is non-productive or counter-productive.
I wonder if this ties in with Semantic Satiation where when you say a word over and over it eventually becomes temporarily meaningless to you.
posted by srboisvert at 5:01 AM on December 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
> Within 25 years I think we will have direct brain-to-brain thought transmission without the need for sound transmission through the air. That is where this is going.
this is how we do it.
i don't know what "it" means, but this is how we do it. "it" here might mean saving the world from all of our ongoing disasters, or "it" might mean destroying the world, or "it" might mean (is likely to mean) some uncanny event that both saves and destroys the world, a technological-psychological aufhebung of humanity.
and, like, i stand by the overblown language in that last paragraph.
people thinking about children using direct brain-to-brain transmission to broadcast their thoughts at their parents are getting close to seeing that this is how we do it, but they're not taking it seriously enough. like, children who grow up with brain-to-brain transmission? of course they'd annoy the hell out of their parents. of course they'd terrify their parents. of course they'd be unrecognizable to their parents. of course they'd establish a society that those of us unlucky enough to adopt telepathy late in life would never be able to fully access. of course they'd lack any sense of the self as a unity entity rather than as just one of many terminals that thoughts bounce through.
we already know what these kids will be like. arthur c. clarke wrote a book about them. david bowie sang a song about them.
it will be an honor to be killed by them.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 5:41 AM on December 3, 2020 [6 favorites]
this is how we do it.
i don't know what "it" means, but this is how we do it. "it" here might mean saving the world from all of our ongoing disasters, or "it" might mean destroying the world, or "it" might mean (is likely to mean) some uncanny event that both saves and destroys the world, a technological-psychological aufhebung of humanity.
and, like, i stand by the overblown language in that last paragraph.
people thinking about children using direct brain-to-brain transmission to broadcast their thoughts at their parents are getting close to seeing that this is how we do it, but they're not taking it seriously enough. like, children who grow up with brain-to-brain transmission? of course they'd annoy the hell out of their parents. of course they'd terrify their parents. of course they'd be unrecognizable to their parents. of course they'd establish a society that those of us unlucky enough to adopt telepathy late in life would never be able to fully access. of course they'd lack any sense of the self as a unity entity rather than as just one of many terminals that thoughts bounce through.
we already know what these kids will be like. arthur c. clarke wrote a book about them. david bowie sang a song about them.
it will be an honor to be killed by them.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 5:41 AM on December 3, 2020 [6 favorites]
The mental torture industry would have a heyday with brain-to-brain thought transmission. How does one, especially one in an altered or uncontrollable (*) mental state, keep one's thoughts from being transmitted, as revealing or incriminating as they may be, no matter how false they may be? And what of the issue of things like "don't think of an elephant"? Will this stuff be admissible in court?
*Uncontrollable - I use this word to describe a mental state where thoughts are not orderly and under full control, as it were. As someone who has experienced psychosis half a dozen times, the idea of my intrusive, racing, paranoid, terrified, horrified, self-castigating, self-harming, or other "crazy" thoughts being transmitted to or observed by another person is quite awful, to put it mildly. And going the other way, just think of what it would do for paranoia, for one thing, to have another person's thoughts forcibly intruding on one's own.
Add in controlling parents or abusive partners or friends or bosses or jailers? What a nightmare. Even well-meaning people with the best of intentions, as gentle and kind as they could be, could cause great amounts of damage. And just throwing this out there: repressive religions and cults. Imagine the fun there.
posted by cats are weird at 6:28 AM on December 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
*Uncontrollable - I use this word to describe a mental state where thoughts are not orderly and under full control, as it were. As someone who has experienced psychosis half a dozen times, the idea of my intrusive, racing, paranoid, terrified, horrified, self-castigating, self-harming, or other "crazy" thoughts being transmitted to or observed by another person is quite awful, to put it mildly. And going the other way, just think of what it would do for paranoia, for one thing, to have another person's thoughts forcibly intruding on one's own.
Add in controlling parents or abusive partners or friends or bosses or jailers? What a nightmare. Even well-meaning people with the best of intentions, as gentle and kind as they could be, could cause great amounts of damage. And just throwing this out there: repressive religions and cults. Imagine the fun there.
posted by cats are weird at 6:28 AM on December 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
I talk to myself a lot like kozad described above....but in a toxic flavor.
It is so exhausting. "Okay, time to spend a little time crocheting, yay! Oh wait you didn't walk the dog. Oh, I don't want to walk the dog. I wish husband would walk the dog more. He was the one who wanted a dog! He never does what he promises. Okay, but you have to walk the dog. You have an obligation to the dog. You're a bad person if you don't walk the dog. Besides you shouldn't crochet now anyway, your son is still awake. You should spend some Quality Time with him. But but but I took him outside to play and we did board games and we homeschooled and we made art together already today! I did my best! It's not your best if you could do better and you can do better. Did you read to him today? No, go read to him. But walk the dog first. Then read to him. Then do the dishes. Don't forget to floss."
My inner voice is: controlling, perfectionistic, self-belittling, thinks I deserve zero downtime if it can think of anything that 'should' be done, argues with itself switching between lecturing me in the 2nd person, 1st person defenses and 3rd person daydreaming. It is a tenacious beast that never, ever, ever, ever, ever is satisfied, or shuts the heck up.
I am so, so, so, SO jealous of people who don't have a verbal inner voice.
(Yes, I do a lot of work on meditation, achieving flow states and therapeutic work to handle the negative self-talk in a healthier matter. Mostly that does help but these become avenues the inner voice exploits to harm 'me' if I am not careful. ACT therapy concepts help, and the "I See You Mara" approach, identify it as fear, and get self-compassionate. This is my journey as a person, which feels selfish and self-centered - I see you Mara - but I think in the big picture it is the jumping off point of being a better presence in the world and doing more good for others.)
I probably should have just written this in a journal and not a post but thanks for letting me get it all out!!
posted by MustangMamaVE at 6:29 AM on December 3, 2020 [13 favorites]
It is so exhausting. "Okay, time to spend a little time crocheting, yay! Oh wait you didn't walk the dog. Oh, I don't want to walk the dog. I wish husband would walk the dog more. He was the one who wanted a dog! He never does what he promises. Okay, but you have to walk the dog. You have an obligation to the dog. You're a bad person if you don't walk the dog. Besides you shouldn't crochet now anyway, your son is still awake. You should spend some Quality Time with him. But but but I took him outside to play and we did board games and we homeschooled and we made art together already today! I did my best! It's not your best if you could do better and you can do better. Did you read to him today? No, go read to him. But walk the dog first. Then read to him. Then do the dishes. Don't forget to floss."
My inner voice is: controlling, perfectionistic, self-belittling, thinks I deserve zero downtime if it can think of anything that 'should' be done, argues with itself switching between lecturing me in the 2nd person, 1st person defenses and 3rd person daydreaming. It is a tenacious beast that never, ever, ever, ever, ever is satisfied, or shuts the heck up.
I am so, so, so, SO jealous of people who don't have a verbal inner voice.
(Yes, I do a lot of work on meditation, achieving flow states and therapeutic work to handle the negative self-talk in a healthier matter. Mostly that does help but these become avenues the inner voice exploits to harm 'me' if I am not careful. ACT therapy concepts help, and the "I See You Mara" approach, identify it as fear, and get self-compassionate. This is my journey as a person, which feels selfish and self-centered - I see you Mara - but I think in the big picture it is the jumping off point of being a better presence in the world and doing more good for others.)
I probably should have just written this in a journal and not a post but thanks for letting me get it all out!!
posted by MustangMamaVE at 6:29 AM on December 3, 2020 [13 favorites]
see the thing is that it's impossible to torture a human with this, because we won't be humans anymore. and i am here for it
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 6:29 AM on December 3, 2020
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 6:29 AM on December 3, 2020
my internal monologue voice is like the most non-binary version of my own voice with the Wisconsin accent removed (as far as I'm capable of perceiving a Wisconsin accent from inside of one)
and this comment thread made me realize that when I read discussions on internet websites it's like all of you share a voice, but it's not a separate voice, it's my internal monologue voice trying to do a metafilter voice
it's got very slightly different ones for different internet websites even when I actually know what the people sound like
but if it's a gchat message & not a social media post my brain works harder to approximate their actual voice
brains huh
posted by taquito sunrise at 6:46 AM on December 3, 2020 [8 favorites]
and this comment thread made me realize that when I read discussions on internet websites it's like all of you share a voice, but it's not a separate voice, it's my internal monologue voice trying to do a metafilter voice
it's got very slightly different ones for different internet websites even when I actually know what the people sound like
but if it's a gchat message & not a social media post my brain works harder to approximate their actual voice
brains huh
posted by taquito sunrise at 6:46 AM on December 3, 2020 [8 favorites]
I think both ways. When I'm awake I try to translate what it "is" into what it means. This makes life complicated for me, and I have learned to, sometimes, just let what "is" flow by me like water in a stream. When I dream I translate what it means into what it is. So both states drag along implicit and implied emotional baggage. It gets heavy. I am hobbled, and it really sucks to know that not everyone shares my universe.
My mind to your mind. Heh. You are lucky to not be cursed that way.
posted by mule98J at 7:14 AM on December 3, 2020
My mind to your mind. Heh. You are lucky to not be cursed that way.
posted by mule98J at 7:14 AM on December 3, 2020
and this comment thread made me realize that when I read discussions on internet websites it's like all of you share a voice, but it's not a separate voice, it's my internal monologue voice trying to do a metafilter voice
Probably because I've never knowingly met a MeFite IRL, the mental voice that I hear almost everything on this site in is either cortex's or jessamyn's voice, even if they aren't mentioned in the thread at all.
The only other exceptions I can think of are posts by myself and—curiously—Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon, whose "inner voice" for me is hard to pin down, but definitely gravelly. Sort of Lance Henriksen-ish. (And now NONE OF YOU can un-hear it)
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 7:39 AM on December 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
Probably because I've never knowingly met a MeFite IRL, the mental voice that I hear almost everything on this site in is either cortex's or jessamyn's voice, even if they aren't mentioned in the thread at all.
The only other exceptions I can think of are posts by myself and—curiously—Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon, whose "inner voice" for me is hard to pin down, but definitely gravelly. Sort of Lance Henriksen-ish. (And now NONE OF YOU can un-hear it)
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 7:39 AM on December 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
I am pretty verbal, to the point where I practically subvocalize when I'm thinking. Like kozad and MustangMamaVE I have a [inner critic/distractor, though sometimes it's barely audible. I've had to become aware of its less-verbal criticisms. I'm alone a lot of the time, so I'll actually talk back to it out loud.
It goes something like this: [self-critical murmur, barely noticeable, except I suddenly start feeling bad: "You're not doing this right."]
Me, out loud: "I'm not worried about this! I can do it like I want to!"
It's exhausting, but it's the only way I've found to cope with that internal Wormtongue.
Some problem solving though, needs no words. Rotating things in my mind or visualizing how to solve a puzzle: totally wordless. The problem goes into a black box and then a solution comes out.
But I'm much more likely to be talking to myself inside.
posted by Archer25 at 10:41 AM on December 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
It goes something like this: [self-critical murmur, barely noticeable, except I suddenly start feeling bad: "You're not doing this right."]
Me, out loud: "I'm not worried about this! I can do it like I want to!"
It's exhausting, but it's the only way I've found to cope with that internal Wormtongue.
Some problem solving though, needs no words. Rotating things in my mind or visualizing how to solve a puzzle: totally wordless. The problem goes into a black box and then a solution comes out.
But I'm much more likely to be talking to myself inside.
posted by Archer25 at 10:41 AM on December 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
When I "mentally rotate a cube" it is in words.This is utterly baffling to me. This is like if someone told me they walk by giving verbal instructions to the various muscles in their legs.
I just experimented with composing sentences. I can think of it in terms of typing or hand-writing. Typing is kind of spatial, I'm thinking of where the letters are on a keyboard. Hand-writing is kinesthetic, I'm thinking of the motion of writing. But both feel like they are acting in parallel to imagining the spoken word, rather than replacing it.
If I attempt to type without thinking about how the words sound, I start typing nonsense. So it does feel like the meaning of words is tied very strongly to imagining the words spoken, for me.
But when I write computer code, I compose that visually rather than verbally. I think that's so I don't have to consider how all the punctuation is pronounced. And it's clearer when something is contained inside [ and ] for example, or inside a loop because of its indentation.
I wonder if logographic languages result in a stronger separation between written thought and spoken thought.
posted by RobotHero at 1:29 PM on December 3, 2020 [1 favorite]
I understand that people with brain injuries can often recover skills by repurposing other parts of their brain. In other words, it's very possible for people to differ in which brain circuitry is used for processing stimuli, initiating motion, and so forth. But these different brain circuits are presumably doing similar things to get similar results! Here we have many people describing their mental processes, and apparently they're doing different things to come up with similar results. It's as if consciousness is more fluid, more abstract than processing stimuli and so forth. If so, it's hard to see how consciousness can be a particular feature of human brains. There must be so many ways of being conscious that it can be found everywhere there's a complex brain.
Maybe consciousness isn't even tied to brains, per se. Maybe bee swarms are conscious, maybe forests are conscious, in each case for some value of "conscious" that we can't necessarily understand. There are reported cases of individuals apparently occupied by more than one consciousness; maybe that's not an uncommon thing. Perhaps each of us is merely one level of a consciousness Matryoshka, extending both beneath and above what we think of as our minds, each of these levels being a component of greater and greater consciousnesses thinking thoughts "vaster than empires and more slow".
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:30 PM on December 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
Maybe consciousness isn't even tied to brains, per se. Maybe bee swarms are conscious, maybe forests are conscious, in each case for some value of "conscious" that we can't necessarily understand. There are reported cases of individuals apparently occupied by more than one consciousness; maybe that's not an uncommon thing. Perhaps each of us is merely one level of a consciousness Matryoshka, extending both beneath and above what we think of as our minds, each of these levels being a component of greater and greater consciousnesses thinking thoughts "vaster than empires and more slow".
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:30 PM on December 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
I read whats written as a narrator in my head while visualizing certain aspects. Specifically, when RobotHero mentioned writing code or giving verbal instructions to muscles in the legs. I pictured like a wooden marionette directing their legs to walk then I pictured myself. Brains are weird.
posted by VyanSelei at 5:26 PM on December 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by VyanSelei at 5:26 PM on December 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
I think that mantra-based techniques like TM hijack this mental process by using it to repeat short phrases. This might effectively still that thinking-in-words activity.
In deep mantra recitation I’ve noticed two things happen
- I meditate myself out of my “voice” mind, as evidenced by the voice starting to slow down and skip words and forget where I am in the mantra and make total amateur mistakes in the Sanskrit
Or
- the voice takes on a complete life of its own, occupying the “voice” level of mind while “I” enjoy a complete break from thinking. Like vaguely listening to the best radio station ever. The voice of love speaking. Wonderful.
Both of these experiences have completely shown to me how the “I” as we normally experience it as someone living in your head moving your body thinking your thoughts is totally and illusion
I know that in moments of meditative absorption, that inner voice disappears. Nothing wrong with thinking, but it's nice to take a break from it now and then. Sometimes a little wool-gathering can result in some great ideas, but often that inner conversation is non-productive or counter-productive.
Yes, called access concentration it is a great flow state. I did get once to a state where the voice was silent but I wasn’t in access concentration, instead I was completely thinking in images and when I left the cushion I was like wow finally I understand Temple Grandin.
Long story... sitting silent and observing the activity of the mind is a fukkin trip
posted by St. Peepsburg at 6:51 PM on December 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
In deep mantra recitation I’ve noticed two things happen
- I meditate myself out of my “voice” mind, as evidenced by the voice starting to slow down and skip words and forget where I am in the mantra and make total amateur mistakes in the Sanskrit
Or
- the voice takes on a complete life of its own, occupying the “voice” level of mind while “I” enjoy a complete break from thinking. Like vaguely listening to the best radio station ever. The voice of love speaking. Wonderful.
Both of these experiences have completely shown to me how the “I” as we normally experience it as someone living in your head moving your body thinking your thoughts is totally and illusion
I know that in moments of meditative absorption, that inner voice disappears. Nothing wrong with thinking, but it's nice to take a break from it now and then. Sometimes a little wool-gathering can result in some great ideas, but often that inner conversation is non-productive or counter-productive.
Yes, called access concentration it is a great flow state. I did get once to a state where the voice was silent but I wasn’t in access concentration, instead I was completely thinking in images and when I left the cushion I was like wow finally I understand Temple Grandin.
Long story... sitting silent and observing the activity of the mind is a fukkin trip
posted by St. Peepsburg at 6:51 PM on December 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
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That was me until I was somewhere around four years old. One of my more distinct (and possibly unusual) memories from that time is that, while I was learning to read, I became conscious of my own growing propensity to think verbally as opposed to nonverbally. I actually became pretty concerned that this was not the way my brain should work—that it might slow down my thought processes, or limit my creativity somehow—but I also had a funny hunch that it was an inevitable consequence of reading and writing.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 9:00 AM on December 2, 2020 [14 favorites]