The Incredible Lightness of Being
December 9, 2020 12:08 PM Subscribe
Aerial cable cars aren’t just for tourists and expos - they’re a legitimate city transport mode worthy of serious evaluation. Long Branch Mike at London Reconnections tours examples from Rio de Janeiro, Medellin, La Paz, Brest, Toulouse, Marseille, Paris, Vancouver, Portland, London, and beyond, looking at the different families of aerial cableways, cabin and tower design, and more.
Hence this caveat:
Urban gondolas are successful where they are a cost effective solution that cannot inexpensively be overcome by other options, such as challenging geographical locations. And connect two passenger nodes, with physical and fare integration with the city’s public transport network.
Heh heh:
The low cost and go-anywhere ability of cable car lines lends itself to being a crayonista’s dream (crayonista being the name for people who ‘crayon’ new rapid lines on maps, usually without regard to practicality, cost, or physical restrictions). Hence elected and aspiring politicians down to the very local level are oft tempted to propose cable cars pet schemes. As a result, all cable propelled transport proposals must be evaluated by the level of official interest they generate.
But in the places where they make some kind of sense, whether it's as really-functioning public transit or a tourist attraction, they tend to yield some pretty spectacular views. The link in the FPP in turn links to The Gondola Project, which appears to be run and sponsored by a few companies in the cable car/gondola business, and it has a list of photo galleries of various cable car/gondola systems.
Not sure what the status of the design for the cable car line at the river crossing between Blagoveshchensk, Russia and Heihe is at the moment (AFAIK construction started last year), but in any event it would be the world's first cross-border one.
And the cable cars in Chiatura, Georgia are quite something.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:48 PM on December 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
Urban gondolas are successful where they are a cost effective solution that cannot inexpensively be overcome by other options, such as challenging geographical locations. And connect two passenger nodes, with physical and fare integration with the city’s public transport network.
Heh heh:
The low cost and go-anywhere ability of cable car lines lends itself to being a crayonista’s dream (crayonista being the name for people who ‘crayon’ new rapid lines on maps, usually without regard to practicality, cost, or physical restrictions). Hence elected and aspiring politicians down to the very local level are oft tempted to propose cable cars pet schemes. As a result, all cable propelled transport proposals must be evaluated by the level of official interest they generate.
But in the places where they make some kind of sense, whether it's as really-functioning public transit or a tourist attraction, they tend to yield some pretty spectacular views. The link in the FPP in turn links to The Gondola Project, which appears to be run and sponsored by a few companies in the cable car/gondola business, and it has a list of photo galleries of various cable car/gondola systems.
Not sure what the status of the design for the cable car line at the river crossing between Blagoveshchensk, Russia and Heihe is at the moment (AFAIK construction started last year), but in any event it would be the world's first cross-border one.
And the cable cars in Chiatura, Georgia are quite something.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:48 PM on December 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
If you put a pretty serious line up over the Santa Cruz "mountains" (c'mon people, they're just hills!) from the south bay to the Santa Cruz transit terminal you could probably mint money because Hwy 17 sucks and the view would be nice. It'd be a long line though, might have to transfer a couple of times, but I suppose that could be a chance for folks in the hills to grab a ride too.
...then again, forest fires.
posted by aramaic at 1:25 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
...then again, forest fires.
posted by aramaic at 1:25 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I feel like I'm always the person to bring up Disney, but if you're looking for a US example, this conversation wouldn't be complete without mention of the system at Disney World. I haven't had a chance to check it out personally, and there were definitely some high-profile hiccups at the beginning of its operation, but all the reports I've heard indicate that it is chugging along and providing actual useful service in conveying large numbers of people around the (city-sized) resort. And entertainingly, I think it ticks some of the boxes for a viable urban transit solution, like connecting nodes (several hotels to two theme parks) in areas of demand, service frequency and reliability, and integration with the larger transit network.
Yes, I realized I sound insane and I'm applying urban planning principles to an evil giant corporation's theme park. I work in urban policy and I'm having a week, guys. And man, gondolas are a really fun way to get around if you're not afraid of heights. The ski resort ones are cool, obviously, but this one over a smoking volcanic valley is my favorite tourist iteration.
posted by bowtiesarecool at 1:28 PM on December 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
Yes, I realized I sound insane and I'm applying urban planning principles to an evil giant corporation's theme park. I work in urban policy and I'm having a week, guys. And man, gondolas are a really fun way to get around if you're not afraid of heights. The ski resort ones are cool, obviously, but this one over a smoking volcanic valley is my favorite tourist iteration.
posted by bowtiesarecool at 1:28 PM on December 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
I have taken both the Anaheim Disneyland version of the flying bucket ride (as well as their Monorail and every other quasi-transport system at the park) and Southern California's only other aerial cable car, the Palm Springs Aerial Tramway (best fastest route between the desert and the mountains) and I have always supported that transportation mode to many of the other modes we have today (especially the buses).
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:44 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:44 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
So, my main awareness of gondolas recently is that people keep cutting the line on the Sea to Sky Gondola. Which isn't exactly encouraging -- I can't imagine the damage that would be done if someone cut the cable on one of these in a highly populated area. Maybe there are easy security solutions to that that just aren't being deployed for a tourist line, though?
posted by jacquilynne at 2:02 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by jacquilynne at 2:02 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Jago Hazzard just today posted a video about the London Air Line. I'm sure he'd be quite amused too. ;-)
His Youtube channel is quite good btw if you're into London/public transport stories.
posted by Kosmob0t at 2:03 PM on December 9, 2020
His Youtube channel is quite good btw if you're into London/public transport stories.
posted by Kosmob0t at 2:03 PM on December 9, 2020
If you DO like heights and are bored by the pedestrian nature of cable cars, you should definitely go visit the giant zip line in Val Thorens, it's like a cable car but without the "car" element.
posted by quacks like a duck at 2:07 PM on December 9, 2020
posted by quacks like a duck at 2:07 PM on December 9, 2020
This is all lovely but the (underrated!) movie Dark Water (2002) gives me the willies about these
posted by Caxton1476 at 2:09 PM on December 9, 2020
posted by Caxton1476 at 2:09 PM on December 9, 2020
Arlington Virginia was thinking on one to get to Georgetown. Sadly it didn't go far.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 2:24 PM on December 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 2:24 PM on December 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Like most Americans, I only have experience with cable gondola transport at ski resorts and theme parks*. Great for getting up the mountain, or to the opposite end of a large 'campus', where the food is a mile away from the rollercoasters, or potentially when the parking facility is across a 12 lane highway from the university. They're also a lovely hop-on loading and scenic riding experience.
(*Historical note: the open-car Skyride at Six Flags in the late 80's was almost exactly one joint passed between four people long, and ended at the ice cream vendor area.)
So it seems like a good case for when your rail station is across a river or ridge from your downtown. MUCH cheaper than tunneling under or bridging over. But I seem to remember from looking into it, that there's some kind of 'Rule of 15s'?
To move 1500 people per hour, across 1.5 km, will cost you 15 million dollars to build.
Theme parks can work within that triangle, and a 15 million dollar transit project is CHEAP. But I feel like for large cities, at least one leg doesn't fit. You need to move 1500 people every ten minutes; or take them to the airport 10km away.
So I look forward one day to visiting Austin TX and taking a bat-themed skycar across the river from the convention center hotels to downtown. But I don't really count on taking one to and from the airport.
posted by bartleby at 3:14 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
(*Historical note: the open-car Skyride at Six Flags in the late 80's was almost exactly one joint passed between four people long, and ended at the ice cream vendor area.)
So it seems like a good case for when your rail station is across a river or ridge from your downtown. MUCH cheaper than tunneling under or bridging over. But I seem to remember from looking into it, that there's some kind of 'Rule of 15s'?
To move 1500 people per hour, across 1.5 km, will cost you 15 million dollars to build.
Theme parks can work within that triangle, and a 15 million dollar transit project is CHEAP. But I feel like for large cities, at least one leg doesn't fit. You need to move 1500 people every ten minutes; or take them to the airport 10km away.
So I look forward one day to visiting Austin TX and taking a bat-themed skycar across the river from the convention center hotels to downtown. But I don't really count on taking one to and from the airport.
posted by bartleby at 3:14 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I can see them being valuable in de-car-ifying some bridge-commute cities. Park your car at a facility in Fort Lee and take the George Washington AirTram to Manhattan and connect to the subway. Or sling one under the Golden Gate Bridge and get rid of a dirty diesel commuter ferry line.
posted by bartleby at 3:31 PM on December 9, 2020
posted by bartleby at 3:31 PM on December 9, 2020
La Paz Bolivia has a really cool highspeed gondola system networking both the lower city and El Alto. It fits its extreme geography really well since La Paz is built into a very, very steep bowl. But it does seem to have a scaling issue where it always has the same capacity regardless of load so rush hour or big events mean long lines but quiet hours are still run at full capacity.
posted by Ultracrepidarian at 3:57 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Ultracrepidarian at 3:57 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
My cousin's commute includes the Portland gondola, she works at OHSU. She really seems to enjoy it.
posted by calamari kid at 4:14 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by calamari kid at 4:14 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
With my background I should probably know all the practical reasons for no, but I really want a cable car from UVM to the Lake Champlain Waterfront, with a stop on Church Street, here in Burlington.
I’m not the first.
posted by meinvt at 4:49 PM on December 9, 2020
I’m not the first.
posted by meinvt at 4:49 PM on December 9, 2020
I was so sad that line between Arlington and Georgetown never got off the ground (ha!). I would have happily ridden that thing all the time. But I moved to Alexandria and no one else seemed interested. Boo.
posted by backwards compatible at 6:13 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by backwards compatible at 6:13 PM on December 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
The Portland *SKY* *TRAM* has a lovely view, and is mostly vital for helping hospital workers commute more easily a couple of times a day. Surface traffic down the windy roads on the hill will regularly back up during evening rush hour, so dodging all of that is in retrospect an idea which should have been explored long before.
However, when the tram was first proposed, and after it had been approved for that matter, there was a lot of neighborhood kerfuffling about all of the presumed perverts who would be, I dunno, staring lasciviously straight down at people's BBQ grills or something. At least one dude painted rude things on his roof as a statement against it (I honestly at this point can't remember if it was "FUCK YOU" or just a penis of some kind)
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 7:16 PM on December 9, 2020
However, when the tram was first proposed, and after it had been approved for that matter, there was a lot of neighborhood kerfuffling about all of the presumed perverts who would be, I dunno, staring lasciviously straight down at people's BBQ grills or something. At least one dude painted rude things on his roof as a statement against it (I honestly at this point can't remember if it was "FUCK YOU" or just a penis of some kind)
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 7:16 PM on December 9, 2020
Unfortunately, the article mentions that the Portland Sky Tram is at capacity, which is an issue with aerial tramways, rather than gondola systems.
posted by ambrosen at 5:35 AM on December 10, 2020
posted by ambrosen at 5:35 AM on December 10, 2020
More of a Shelbyville idea, really.
posted by chavenet at 7:15 AM on December 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 7:15 AM on December 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
I assume it's a symptom of living in this world that I can only think about how terrifying it would be to be stuck in a cable car with a bad person for the duration of a cable car ride. Most other forms of public transportation have, in theory, an Authority onboard who can reach you in an emergency, though I know that doesn't mean they would do so, or care.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:05 AM on December 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Lyn Never at 10:05 AM on December 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
I took a gondola up into the mountains near Albuquerque, which is when I discovered that it gave me some unholy combination of fear of heights plus seasickness. By the end of it I was not enjoying the views so much as praying for a quick end to my misery.
Of course, then I had to take it down to leave as well, but at least I knew what to expect/where not to look.
Maybe a lower-down version wouldn't have that effect though.
On preview:
Albuquerque, NM has the longest aerial tramway in the Americas, Sandia Peak Tramway.
That's the one.
posted by emjaybee at 10:29 AM on December 10, 2020
Of course, then I had to take it down to leave as well, but at least I knew what to expect/where not to look.
Maybe a lower-down version wouldn't have that effect though.
On preview:
Albuquerque, NM has the longest aerial tramway in the Americas, Sandia Peak Tramway.
That's the one.
posted by emjaybee at 10:29 AM on December 10, 2020
Yeah but all those cables are going to fuck up my personal executive robot helicopter drone service
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 3:05 AM on December 11, 2020
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 3:05 AM on December 11, 2020
Mm. Cablecars, for those towns who think they're too smart to fall for monorails.
posted by Grangousier at 3:34 AM on December 11, 2020
posted by Grangousier at 3:34 AM on December 11, 2020
I rode the La Paz cable car. In a city that is about 80% contained within a canyon, at between 3,600 and 4,200 meters of elevation, this tourist found it a very pleasant alternative to riding a bus/taxi up and down hills on winding roads while altitude-sick.
posted by ipsative at 12:02 PM on December 11, 2020
posted by ipsative at 12:02 PM on December 11, 2020
Wrong.
posted by MartinWisse at 3:36 PM on December 11, 2020
posted by MartinWisse at 3:36 PM on December 11, 2020
Metafilter: (I honestly at this point can't remember if it was "FUCK YOU" or just a penis of some kind)
posted by Carouselle at 6:58 PM on December 11, 2020
posted by Carouselle at 6:58 PM on December 11, 2020
TIL: tram ways and gondolas are very distinct things.
The Sea to Sky Gondola cable being cut repeatedly is so weird because there hasn't been an obvious motive. It's not wide spread vandalism because there are lifts all over the province and none of them are being targeted. It's got to be someone with an axe to grind but if so they are really nursing that grudge.
posted by Mitheral at 8:44 PM on December 11, 2020
The Sea to Sky Gondola cable being cut repeatedly is so weird because there hasn't been an obvious motive. It's not wide spread vandalism because there are lifts all over the province and none of them are being targeted. It's got to be someone with an axe to grind but if so they are really nursing that grudge.
posted by Mitheral at 8:44 PM on December 11, 2020
About a decade ago I was taking a cable car from Mürren up to Schilthorn mountain top. About halfway through the 20 minute long steep climb we stop. Not at a station! Just at a support tower and very very very high up. The doors open. Cue panic attack. It was actually an uncommon but planned stop where some hunters departed. They had to climb down an impossibly long ladder to the ground, but it must have saved them hours of hiking time.
posted by gryphonlover at 11:01 AM on December 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by gryphonlover at 11:01 AM on December 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
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I imagine many Londoners will find this statement amusing.
posted by parm at 12:25 PM on December 9, 2020 [12 favorites]