Amazon's 'The Lord of the Rings' to Cost $465M for Just One Season
April 17, 2021 3:08 AM Subscribe
"What I can tell you is Amazon is going to spend about $650 million in season one alone," Stuart Nash, New Zealand minister for economic development and tourism, told Morning Report. Amazon's spending will trigger a tax rebate of NZ$160 million ($114 million U.S). This is somewhat controversial in New Zealand as the government could end up on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars to help subsidize Amazon's elves-and-hobbits drama series. Stuff reported that the country's treasury has labeled the show a "significant fiscal risk" given there is no capped upside to how much Amazon — and therefore the government — might spend. But others point out that the boost in local spending by the production plus the potential tourism surge from Lord of the Rings fans far outweighs the taxpayer-funded kickbacks.
Honest question: is anyone excited about this at all? I mean, maybe keeping your cards close to your chest is a good strategy here, but the only thing I ever hear about this production is how expensive it's going to be.
posted by Alex404 at 3:45 AM on April 17, 2021 [30 favorites]
posted by Alex404 at 3:45 AM on April 17, 2021 [30 favorites]
It has a lot of us livid tho'. It's not going to make me vote for the Nat's, but Labour are really losing the plot. I mean who the fuck cares about a hobbit gameshow.
Our GDP is ~nz$200B.
posted by unearthed at 3:52 AM on April 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
Our GDP is ~nz$200B.
posted by unearthed at 3:52 AM on April 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
Honest question: is anyone excited about this at all? I mean, maybe keeping your cards close to your chest is a good strategy here, but the only thing I ever hear about this production is how expensive it's going to be.
Not if they're going to GRRM it up where the show is simply a series of shocking moments of violence tied loosely together with sex, cheesy dialogue, and sup par I Claudius inspired intrigue, which is what it's going to be, because it cant be anything else.
posted by Beholder at 4:07 AM on April 17, 2021 [19 favorites]
Not if they're going to GRRM it up where the show is simply a series of shocking moments of violence tied loosely together with sex, cheesy dialogue, and sup par I Claudius inspired intrigue, which is what it's going to be, because it cant be anything else.
posted by Beholder at 4:07 AM on April 17, 2021 [19 favorites]
There's a small film industry in my hometown and it's interesting to see how it impacts the economy.
It emphatically did change the local economy when it first arrived, and revitalized the historic downtown that is now a frequent backdrop instead of being a tear-down blight. Other area-wide scenic venues have been sustained as well. (There wasn't enough incentive to even tear down the old downtown and homes, which is the only reason they remained to become an attraction.)
When the legislators put the extortion/kickback scheme on hiatus, the productions all move to another State and the local economy does see a hit. However, note that the tourism and service economy are our major industries. The folks directly involved in production (not the temporary talent) have see-saw lives due to the on/off production cycles.
The one bonus my local area has for the film industry is a massive studio facility that's available for use. It is something solid, permanent and difficult for studios to replicate elsewhere.
Offering bribes to bring in industries seems to be only effective as a long game. An area must build up a certain threshold of an industry type for there to be enough capacity of supporting businesses in the area for additional numbers of the 'prime' industry to be attracted to the area. Otherwise, it doesn't seem worth it.
Offering bribes to big industry doesn't mean that the big company will necessarily employ the quantities expected. It's a trickle-down economic scheme.
posted by mightshould at 4:27 AM on April 17, 2021 [9 favorites]
It emphatically did change the local economy when it first arrived, and revitalized the historic downtown that is now a frequent backdrop instead of being a tear-down blight. Other area-wide scenic venues have been sustained as well. (There wasn't enough incentive to even tear down the old downtown and homes, which is the only reason they remained to become an attraction.)
When the legislators put the extortion/kickback scheme on hiatus, the productions all move to another State and the local economy does see a hit. However, note that the tourism and service economy are our major industries. The folks directly involved in production (not the temporary talent) have see-saw lives due to the on/off production cycles.
The one bonus my local area has for the film industry is a massive studio facility that's available for use. It is something solid, permanent and difficult for studios to replicate elsewhere.
Offering bribes to bring in industries seems to be only effective as a long game. An area must build up a certain threshold of an industry type for there to be enough capacity of supporting businesses in the area for additional numbers of the 'prime' industry to be attracted to the area. Otherwise, it doesn't seem worth it.
Offering bribes to big industry doesn't mean that the big company will necessarily employ the quantities expected. It's a trickle-down economic scheme.
posted by mightshould at 4:27 AM on April 17, 2021 [9 favorites]
somehow I read this as the box set was gonna cost $465 million & thought "wow it's gonna be that long huh"
posted by taquito sunrise at 4:27 AM on April 17, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by taquito sunrise at 4:27 AM on April 17, 2021 [12 favorites]
Honest question: is anyone excited about this at all?
I mean, if you want anecdata, I've been into this since the start. A sexy big budget LoTR TV show is what I've wanted since I was a teen.
posted by fight or flight at 4:39 AM on April 17, 2021 [8 favorites]
I mean, if you want anecdata, I've been into this since the start. A sexy big budget LoTR TV show is what I've wanted since I was a teen.
posted by fight or flight at 4:39 AM on April 17, 2021 [8 favorites]
if they're going to GRRM it up where the show is simply a series of shocking moments of violence tied loosely together with sex
Sex? In Lord of the Rings? That would be a major change.
posted by Bee'sWing at 4:59 AM on April 17, 2021 [16 favorites]
Sex? In Lord of the Rings? That would be a major change.
posted by Bee'sWing at 4:59 AM on April 17, 2021 [16 favorites]
floam, my specific experience is with NC (Screen Gem Studio, etc), but folks I know in the film industry are involved in both locations.
posted by mightshould at 5:05 AM on April 17, 2021
posted by mightshould at 5:05 AM on April 17, 2021
I think in the US, most states have a cap on the tax credits they'll give to a store production. NZ might want to look into that. Or like only give tax credits (if at all) to local producers.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:11 AM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:11 AM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Honest question: is anyone excited about this at all?
Count me the hell out. So tired of these big budget epics aimed mostly at teens, especially now that the vampire squids have figured out how best to socialize the upfront cost.
Where is Jordan Peele's huge tax subsidy... ??
posted by Sheydem-tants at 5:11 AM on April 17, 2021 [17 favorites]
Count me the hell out. So tired of these big budget epics aimed mostly at teens, especially now that the vampire squids have figured out how best to socialize the upfront cost.
Where is Jordan Peele's huge tax subsidy... ??
posted by Sheydem-tants at 5:11 AM on April 17, 2021 [17 favorites]
Where is Jordan Peele's huge tax subsidy... ??
I'm sure he gets them. Nothing gets filmed anywhere these days without a tax subsidy. Which leads to the bizarre scenario where things end up being filmed everywhere instead of somewhere so they can collect all of the tax credits. Just watch the closing credits of any movie these days and you will see the list of government agencies involved. It's rare to see a blockbuster that doesn't have production going on, with government sponsorship, in all of the major economic blocks.
posted by srboisvert at 5:32 AM on April 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
I'm sure he gets them. Nothing gets filmed anywhere these days without a tax subsidy. Which leads to the bizarre scenario where things end up being filmed everywhere instead of somewhere so they can collect all of the tax credits. Just watch the closing credits of any movie these days and you will see the list of government agencies involved. It's rare to see a blockbuster that doesn't have production going on, with government sponsorship, in all of the major economic blocks.
posted by srboisvert at 5:32 AM on April 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
I'm holding out for a stoner comedy featuring Bob and Nob and their pipeweed-fuelled misadventures.
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:35 AM on April 17, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:35 AM on April 17, 2021 [10 favorites]
The thing is, they kind of need the NZ landscaoe for middle earth scenery. I guess they could find scenes at other locations, but all in one stable friendly country? So why does NZ need to offer them a tax break at all?
posted by wigner3j at 5:39 AM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by wigner3j at 5:39 AM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Amazon has a history of blinking first when governments say "nah" to demands for kickbacks, so this is odd.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:42 AM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:42 AM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Getting pretty bored with being offered nothing but recycled old white man's shit.
posted by Mary Ellen Carter at 5:49 AM on April 17, 2021 [55 favorites]
posted by Mary Ellen Carter at 5:49 AM on April 17, 2021 [55 favorites]
Ye godz, can we be done with the Middle Earth shit already?
posted by Thorzdad at 6:02 AM on April 17, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 6:02 AM on April 17, 2021 [12 favorites]
I'd put down several New Zealand dollars that some Maori turn up playing something not-monstrous.
New Zealand has a history of buckling to Hollywood productions, but they're not wrong that they got a lot of tourism mileage out of being The Middle Earth Country. Even if the series is kind of lame, it might well generate hundreds of millions in tax dollars over the next decade.
posted by Merus at 6:02 AM on April 17, 2021
New Zealand has a history of buckling to Hollywood productions, but they're not wrong that they got a lot of tourism mileage out of being The Middle Earth Country. Even if the series is kind of lame, it might well generate hundreds of millions in tax dollars over the next decade.
posted by Merus at 6:02 AM on April 17, 2021
Getting pretty bored with being offered nothing but recycled old white man's shit.
posted by Mary Ellen Carter
OMG YAAAAAASSSSSSS!
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:07 AM on April 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Mary Ellen Carter
OMG YAAAAAASSSSSSS!
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:07 AM on April 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
Not if they're going to GRRM it up...
That's my biggest worry. They don't have to go in that direction though. If they go with it being very woke and diverse, using the Second Age is ideal.
There may be no hobbits (were they around that early?), but because the character slate can be fairly blank, we could see a cast full of representation, from powerful women to various queer characters.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 6:07 AM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
That's my biggest worry. They don't have to go in that direction though. If they go with it being very woke and diverse, using the Second Age is ideal.
There may be no hobbits (were they around that early?), but because the character slate can be fairly blank, we could see a cast full of representation, from powerful women to various queer characters.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 6:07 AM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
My secret wish is that this just ends up being "What We Do in the Shadows" but with orcs.
(I know it will not)
posted by thivaia at 6:08 AM on April 17, 2021 [33 favorites]
(I know it will not)
posted by thivaia at 6:08 AM on April 17, 2021 [33 favorites]
I really liked LOTR for most of my life. I might read it again someday. But I can't muster up the enthusiasm to watch the movies again, and I really don't care about this show.
I'd much rather watch a series based on Gideon the Ninth, or the Greatwinter Trilogy, or the Scarlet Odyssey or the Laundry Files or the Culture.
posted by Foosnark at 6:32 AM on April 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
I'd much rather watch a series based on Gideon the Ninth, or the Greatwinter Trilogy, or the Scarlet Odyssey or the Laundry Files or the Culture.
posted by Foosnark at 6:32 AM on April 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
Sex? In Lord of the Rings? That would be a major change.
Eowyn didn't even have a chain-mail bikini
posted by thelonius at 6:56 AM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Eowyn didn't even have a chain-mail bikini
posted by thelonius at 6:56 AM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
The distance between the LotR movies and now is equivalent to the distance between the end of WWII and the Summer of Love. Plenty long enough for a reboot.
Hopefully this one won't have dwarf bowling or oliphaunt surfing.
posted by tspae at 7:34 AM on April 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
Hopefully this one won't have dwarf bowling or oliphaunt surfing.
posted by tspae at 7:34 AM on April 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
Even as someone for whom this has been my main fandom for ages, I'm really not excited for this.
- As others have said, we've already had SO MUCH content from this franchise. The Hobbit trilogy was bad. Shadow of Mordor might've been fun (I didn't play it) but apparently its relationship with canon was ... dubious. Give other series/emerging creators their day in the sun!
- Twenty years ago (oh god) when the movies came out I think people were less sensitive to the fact that there are so few women in the story. You can probably count on one hand the number of named women in canon in the period they're setting this. To some extent it gives them some freedom, e.g. to have the humans who stayed behind in Middle Earth and then get brutally subjugated by Numenor and its (textually condemned) colonialism have more women leaders. Somehow I doubt this is going to be used to good effect, though.
- I'm also incredibly leery of the show's ability to handle the racism in the original work.
- The movies were at their best when they let the book dialogue speak for itself, and (imo) at their worst when they invented new scenes to fix problems they themselves had created (e.g. Aragorn's horse makeout scene). There is no book dialogue for this period.
I think in some imaginary parallel universe there could be a good series made out of Alkallabeth I just really doubt the ability of this series to pull it off.
posted by threementholsandafuneral at 7:38 AM on April 17, 2021 [11 favorites]
- As others have said, we've already had SO MUCH content from this franchise. The Hobbit trilogy was bad. Shadow of Mordor might've been fun (I didn't play it) but apparently its relationship with canon was ... dubious. Give other series/emerging creators their day in the sun!
- Twenty years ago (oh god) when the movies came out I think people were less sensitive to the fact that there are so few women in the story. You can probably count on one hand the number of named women in canon in the period they're setting this. To some extent it gives them some freedom, e.g. to have the humans who stayed behind in Middle Earth and then get brutally subjugated by Numenor and its (textually condemned) colonialism have more women leaders. Somehow I doubt this is going to be used to good effect, though.
- I'm also incredibly leery of the show's ability to handle the racism in the original work.
- The movies were at their best when they let the book dialogue speak for itself, and (imo) at their worst when they invented new scenes to fix problems they themselves had created (e.g. Aragorn's horse makeout scene). There is no book dialogue for this period.
I think in some imaginary parallel universe there could be a good series made out of Alkallabeth I just really doubt the ability of this series to pull it off.
posted by threementholsandafuneral at 7:38 AM on April 17, 2021 [11 favorites]
I find it odd how much MF folk are leftist boosters and advocate for subsidies for virtually anything, yet when the subsidies come, all of a sudden are, "No, not that way!" This is what government funding of jobs looks like. Full of people you don't like, getting money you don't like, for doing things you don't like, in ways you don't like. Kinda gotta make your peace with it at some point.
Are the subsidies not paying off here? It's crazy if they're not, IMO. Yet, I've been scolded several times for for making this point, with defenders asking why government subsidies should pay off.
It would be interesting to find where the industry in the US transitioned to the point where government subsidies became a normal thing. I would guess as productions, and production companies, became more international, the practice became more normal, as non-US governments have a long tradition of subsidizing film and television productions.
As far as LOTR goes, you'd be shocked at how little I care. And haven't since about 7th grade (for perspective, that was back when Ralph Bakshi gave it a go). The viability of the franchise has never depended on the likes of me. Yet somebody wants this content and is willing to pay. So here we are.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:00 AM on April 17, 2021 [11 favorites]
Are the subsidies not paying off here? It's crazy if they're not, IMO. Yet, I've been scolded several times for for making this point, with defenders asking why government subsidies should pay off.
It would be interesting to find where the industry in the US transitioned to the point where government subsidies became a normal thing. I would guess as productions, and production companies, became more international, the practice became more normal, as non-US governments have a long tradition of subsidizing film and television productions.
As far as LOTR goes, you'd be shocked at how little I care. And haven't since about 7th grade (for perspective, that was back when Ralph Bakshi gave it a go). The viability of the franchise has never depended on the likes of me. Yet somebody wants this content and is willing to pay. So here we are.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:00 AM on April 17, 2021 [11 favorites]
Meh, 650 million USD is what Bezos makes in three days.
I'm reminded, as I am all too regularly these days, of this tweet from the Public Citizen account:
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 8:01 AM on April 17, 2021 [33 favorites]
I'm reminded, as I am all too regularly these days, of this tweet from the Public Citizen account:
It's 2589 BC. The Egyptians are building the Giza Pyramids. You are immortal.The cost of this series is basically a rounding error in Bezos' wealth. I'm neutral om the production of a LoTR based series, but this outlandish hyper-wealth is obscene.
You have $0. You decide to save $10,000 every day, never spending a cent.
4609 years later, it's 2020.
You only have only one-fifth the average fortune of the 5 richest billionaires.
Tax the rich.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 8:01 AM on April 17, 2021 [33 favorites]
Aragorn's horse makeout scene
Was that in the extended version?
posted by thelonius at 8:06 AM on April 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Was that in the extended version?
posted by thelonius at 8:06 AM on April 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
there is an LOTR reboot that I could get excited about. It would be a more or less complete retelling of the story (including Tom Bombadil) with an absolute minimum of new stuff added. And rather than go all big deal Hollywood (emphasis on battles and monsters and whatnot), really dive deep into the elegiac depths of the literature. Done right, I could see it stretching out to twenty maybe thirty one hour episodes. Think of what the BBC might have done with it forty or fifty years ago, but with 21st century moviemaking tech and related post production magic. There would be big battles, of course, and monsters ... but they would be presented as horrors, not excitements. And you'd maybe spend as much time hanging out at Rivendell with the elves and their songs and poetry as you would mucking around the hellscapes of Mordor.
I suspect that what's going on down Auckland way will not be anything like this.
posted by philip-random at 8:06 AM on April 17, 2021 [17 favorites]
I suspect that what's going on down Auckland way will not be anything like this.
posted by philip-random at 8:06 AM on April 17, 2021 [17 favorites]
I don't think that Tolkien's verse is really going to translate to the screen well (most of it didn't translate to the page all that well, in fact). Cutting it all was really the only move for Peter Jackson.
posted by thelonius at 8:13 AM on April 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 8:13 AM on April 17, 2021 [6 favorites]
It's not actually The Lord of the Rings, it's a prequel, probably drawing on The Silmarillion. It may not even have hobbitses.
posted by LindsayIrene at 8:48 AM on April 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by LindsayIrene at 8:48 AM on April 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
And rather than go all big deal Hollywood (emphasis on battles and monsters and whatnot), really dive deep into the elegiac depths of the literature. Done right, I could see it stretching out to twenty maybe thirty one hour episodes.
Just let them do 10,000 half-hour episodes, and call it Coronation Shire.
posted by oulipian at 8:54 AM on April 17, 2021 [12 favorites]
Just let them do 10,000 half-hour episodes, and call it Coronation Shire.
posted by oulipian at 8:54 AM on April 17, 2021 [12 favorites]
Well, I wanna see it. You buncha haters!
It's not a rehash of the Big Three LotR books anyway. This is set thousands of years earlier. Swear to dog, this place can be so full of killjoy spirit...
posted by SoberHighland at 9:12 AM on April 17, 2021 [16 favorites]
It's not a rehash of the Big Three LotR books anyway. This is set thousands of years earlier. Swear to dog, this place can be so full of killjoy spirit...
posted by SoberHighland at 9:12 AM on April 17, 2021 [16 favorites]
leftist boosters and advocate for subsidies for virtually anything
I've never seen leftists advocate for subsidizing "virtually anything."
Making sure the world's richest man doesn't pay taxes is pretty much the opposite of a leftist goal. As are fossil fuel industry subsidies, etc.
posted by Foosnark at 9:15 AM on April 17, 2021 [24 favorites]
I've never seen leftists advocate for subsidizing "virtually anything."
Making sure the world's richest man doesn't pay taxes is pretty much the opposite of a leftist goal. As are fossil fuel industry subsidies, etc.
posted by Foosnark at 9:15 AM on April 17, 2021 [24 favorites]
"The essence of Communism is that all government spending is good and exactly identical. There is no difference between funding schools and giving tax breaks to the richest man in the world to make an elf movie." -- Karl Marxposted by Pyry at 10:17 AM on April 17, 2021 [41 favorites]
I find it odd how much MF folk are leftist boosters and advocate for subsidies for virtually anything, yet when the subsidies come, all of a sudden are, "No, not that way!""Tax breaks for the rich are the social programs you've been asking for," is such a bad take I don't even. This is the public coffers being opened to make Amazon's production values lower. And since Warner Bros. used the LOTR movies to fuck up labor laws in New Zealand maybe that's why some people aren't on board.
posted by Horkus at 10:27 AM on April 17, 2021 [22 favorites]
There's definitely still an audience.
Free League, the Swedish RPG company, just won the license from the Tolkien estate and raised over $2M to put out a new edition of The One Ring role playing game.
I'm more a Call of C'thulhu guy, but these folks do such amazing work, it's worth getting the book just for the writing and the art alone, even if you never plan on playing it.
posted by Bill Watches Movies Podcast at 10:32 AM on April 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
Free League, the Swedish RPG company, just won the license from the Tolkien estate and raised over $2M to put out a new edition of The One Ring role playing game.
I'm more a Call of C'thulhu guy, but these folks do such amazing work, it's worth getting the book just for the writing and the art alone, even if you never plan on playing it.
posted by Bill Watches Movies Podcast at 10:32 AM on April 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm not precisely excited for this, but I do think it deserves to be judged as its own thing. They are taking the Middle-Earth setting and telling a story that may or may not be related to the stories in the Silmarillion of the second age. Very likely none of the characters will be those we're familiar with, except probably Sauron - and this is when he was pretty, so it's basically a new character.
(This is just a guess, but I'm thinking they won't want to include the characters like Galadriel who technically were alive during this period and are in the movies. They can't cast the same actors and won't want to draw comparisons.)
It sounds like they're doing the fall of Numenor, but that's just the bones of a story - this is essentially starting from scratch without having to explain what Ents are. It might be terrible, it might be great, but it's entirely up to the team that's putting this together.
posted by five toed sloth at 11:35 AM on April 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
(This is just a guess, but I'm thinking they won't want to include the characters like Galadriel who technically were alive during this period and are in the movies. They can't cast the same actors and won't want to draw comparisons.)
It sounds like they're doing the fall of Numenor, but that's just the bones of a story - this is essentially starting from scratch without having to explain what Ents are. It might be terrible, it might be great, but it's entirely up to the team that's putting this together.
posted by five toed sloth at 11:35 AM on April 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
The casting sheets that have been going around say they require nudity, so...there's that.
There's a film credit in NZ that provides up to a 25% refund for overseas productions. It sounds like Amazon was angling for more than this. It also sounds like NZ didn't know just how much Amazon would be spending.
"But it will boost tourism!" is not a great argument because many people feel NZ was, pre-COVID, already overtouristed. There are a lot of people in this country who would like tourism to be much reduced when the borders finally open, thankyouverymuch.
NZ has plenty of film productions going on already. And to provide context: NZ is in the middle of a housing crisis, a mental health services crisis, a Harbour Bridge crisis, a challenging gangs problem, and more. The solutions presented for these are often small adjustments, with an undertone of "but we can't afford big changes." So if you're wondering why people are angry over this...there you go.
posted by rednikki at 11:50 AM on April 17, 2021 [15 favorites]
There's a film credit in NZ that provides up to a 25% refund for overseas productions. It sounds like Amazon was angling for more than this. It also sounds like NZ didn't know just how much Amazon would be spending.
"But it will boost tourism!" is not a great argument because many people feel NZ was, pre-COVID, already overtouristed. There are a lot of people in this country who would like tourism to be much reduced when the borders finally open, thankyouverymuch.
NZ has plenty of film productions going on already. And to provide context: NZ is in the middle of a housing crisis, a mental health services crisis, a Harbour Bridge crisis, a challenging gangs problem, and more. The solutions presented for these are often small adjustments, with an undertone of "but we can't afford big changes." So if you're wondering why people are angry over this...there you go.
posted by rednikki at 11:50 AM on April 17, 2021 [15 favorites]
There are stories carried on because people want, need, or enjoy sharing them, revisiting them, and then there are stories carried forward relentlessly by an inhumane entity that just notices what stories people told a bunch before and figures out a way to make it their business to perpetually push those once they own them somehow.
posted by GoblinHoney at 12:58 PM on April 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by GoblinHoney at 12:58 PM on April 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
well congrats to new zealand's economy i guess. condolences to to anyone who ends up watching it.
posted by Bwentman at 1:01 PM on April 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Bwentman at 1:01 PM on April 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Of course I'm going to watch it.
posted by Mogur at 1:37 PM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Mogur at 1:37 PM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Why are so many people assuming this will be bad? I just don't understand the negativity here.
Sheesh... you want Hamlet? Read it!
posted by SoberHighland at 1:44 PM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Sheesh... you want Hamlet? Read it!
posted by SoberHighland at 1:44 PM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
I’m sure this will look great, but it’s streaming via Amazon, so you’ll have to selected it by scrolling past several rows of Bruce Willis films, dodge the extra fees version (even though you’ve got Prime) and tick the ‘no embedded advertising’ option for an additional charge.
posted by The River Ivel at 2:09 PM on April 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by The River Ivel at 2:09 PM on April 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
But others point out that the boost in local spending by the production plus the potential tourism surge from Lord of the Rings fans far outweighs the taxpayer-funded kickbacks.
Absolutely every US-resident MeFite who lives in a city with a major league sports stadium should have experience with how thoroughly this is wishful thinking and/or utterly fabricated bullshit.
posted by soundguy99 at 2:49 PM on April 17, 2021 [30 favorites]
Absolutely every US-resident MeFite who lives in a city with a major league sports stadium should have experience with how thoroughly this is wishful thinking and/or utterly fabricated bullshit.
posted by soundguy99 at 2:49 PM on April 17, 2021 [30 favorites]
Or the govt could just give the money to hundreds/thousands of creatives in NZ directly to produce art in many different genres & styles - some will work, some won't, a minority will likely be very well received.
Subsidising a company that doesn't need subsidising (& actively engages in terrible tax, employee, anti-competitive practices) seems suboptimal when NZ has so many problems on its plate.
posted by phigmov at 3:09 PM on April 17, 2021 [11 favorites]
Subsidising a company that doesn't need subsidising (& actively engages in terrible tax, employee, anti-competitive practices) seems suboptimal when NZ has so many problems on its plate.
posted by phigmov at 3:09 PM on April 17, 2021 [11 favorites]
I feel like I have a parasocial relationship with New Zealand & watching them get into bed with a literal supervillain who takes pleasure in decimating communities is painful. This is a horror movie and I'm like no NZ no you are the last not ruined country on earth PLEASE save yourselves and kick bezos in the balls for us
posted by bleep at 3:19 PM on April 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by bleep at 3:19 PM on April 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
Why would anyone trust this literal cancer on society for one second with any number of innocent lives?
posted by bleep at 3:27 PM on April 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by bleep at 3:27 PM on April 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Absolutely every US-resident MeFite who lives in a city with a major league sports stadium should have experience with how thoroughly this is wishful thinking and/or utterly fabricated bullshit.
Can confirm for both hockey and football arenas. Cost the city millions with next to nothing to show for it.
posted by lock robster at 3:36 PM on April 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Can confirm for both hockey and football arenas. Cost the city millions with next to nothing to show for it.
posted by lock robster at 3:36 PM on April 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Absolutely every US-resident MeFite who lives in a city with a major league sports stadium should have experience with how thoroughly this is wishful thinking and/or utterly fabricated bullshit.
Exactly what I was thinking. These tax breaks are nothing more than racketeering between politicians and studios/teams.
Hollywood—which is still a creature largely modeled around Weinsteins and Scott Rudin—doesn't need the money, and locations don't need to sell themselves short. Hollywood has to make movies somewhere and CGI ain't it, so.
Couple this with the fact that all movies go all the way out of their way to erase any hint of the location in which they are filming, so there isn't even any identification of the tax-break provider within the movie. Having NZ come up in the first five results when googling "Skywalker cliff island" is a shitty level of promotion!
posted by rhizome at 3:47 PM on April 17, 2021
Exactly what I was thinking. These tax breaks are nothing more than racketeering between politicians and studios/teams.
Hollywood—which is still a creature largely modeled around Weinsteins and Scott Rudin—doesn't need the money, and locations don't need to sell themselves short. Hollywood has to make movies somewhere and CGI ain't it, so.
Couple this with the fact that all movies go all the way out of their way to erase any hint of the location in which they are filming, so there isn't even any identification of the tax-break provider within the movie. Having NZ come up in the first five results when googling "Skywalker cliff island" is a shitty level of promotion!
posted by rhizome at 3:47 PM on April 17, 2021
My secret wish is that this just ends up being "What We Do in the Shadows" but with orcs.
What We Do Where the Shadows Lie.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:58 PM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
What We Do Where the Shadows Lie.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:58 PM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
What We Do in the Shadow of Mordor, surely.
posted by fight or flight at 4:25 PM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by fight or flight at 4:25 PM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
I know people working on this, so I want it to be successful for their sake, and I have confidence in the people I know (at least) to make their parts of it not suck.
Otherwise, HBO has Game of Thrones, Amazon has Lord of the Rings, Disney+ has Marvel and Star Wars. We should not be entirely surprised Hollywood loves it some franchises.
posted by jscalzi at 4:26 PM on April 17, 2021
Otherwise, HBO has Game of Thrones, Amazon has Lord of the Rings, Disney+ has Marvel and Star Wars. We should not be entirely surprised Hollywood loves it some franchises.
posted by jscalzi at 4:26 PM on April 17, 2021
Whatever this turns out to be it won't be Tolkien's vision. My prediction is that it will focus on the "Southern" regions and/or characters of Middle Earth, which we know little about, and can be invented by writers.
posted by Liquidwolf at 4:43 PM on April 17, 2021
posted by Liquidwolf at 4:43 PM on April 17, 2021
I mean who the fuck cares about a hobbit gameshow.
/slowly raises hand
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 5:29 PM on April 17, 2021 [9 favorites]
/slowly raises hand
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 5:29 PM on April 17, 2021 [9 favorites]
Sheesh... you want Hamlet? Read it!
Nonsense, if I want Hamlet I will have it read to me by the most prestigious actors I can find.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:06 PM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Nonsense, if I want Hamlet I will have it read to me by the most prestigious actors I can find.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:06 PM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
All depends on the conceptual screenwriting. An intelligent and creative show-runner could cook up something loosely based on The Silmarillion (which sometimes reads like outlines) and develop it in interesting directions. More likely probability is that it turns into something generic or awful, but anything is possible.
posted by ovvl at 6:15 PM on April 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by ovvl at 6:15 PM on April 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
rednikki: "The casting sheets that have been going around say they require nudity, so...there's that."
In Tolkien there's a lot of implicit debauchery in the last days of Numenor and its fall, and so I get that the easy way to depict this is nekkid folks. But I hope they go for the envy and pride as well which was really pushed in the text, and was how Sauron talked his way in.
posted by indexy at 8:54 PM on April 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
In Tolkien there's a lot of implicit debauchery in the last days of Numenor and its fall, and so I get that the easy way to depict this is nekkid folks. But I hope they go for the envy and pride as well which was really pushed in the text, and was how Sauron talked his way in.
posted by indexy at 8:54 PM on April 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
This is all a very expensive marketing stunt for the Ring doorbell camera, isn’t it? Like they’ll have a special edition with some elvish runes and it will cost more?
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:12 PM on April 17, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:12 PM on April 17, 2021 [8 favorites]
Tom Bombadil origin story, where he is experimented upon by Sauron in an attempt to make a man-Ent hybrid. Goldberry is another attempt to unite elemental forces with the race of man, in this case water elementals. Tom and Goldberry escape from the lab. Upon reaching shelter, they realize Tom's skeleton has been replaced with mithril bones and he now has the healing power of an oak tree. Sadly his mind has been shattered and he only speaks in rhyming doggerel. Goldberry eventually is pollinated by Tom after he sings a bawdy bard rouser about mossy crags. So basically I'm saying a Wolverine/Swamp Thing crossover with a lot of English accents and lutes.
posted by benzenedream at 12:00 AM on April 18, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 12:00 AM on April 18, 2021 [9 favorites]
Getting pretty bored with being offered nothing but recycled old white man's shit.
OMG YAAAAAASSSSSSS!
Amazon has been doing a good job on this front. I can recommend the wonderful Small Axe series, the heart-breaking documentary Time, and the feature One Night in Miami..., all of them recent releases under the Amazon banner and helmed by Black filmmakers.
posted by Mothlight at 12:34 AM on April 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
OMG YAAAAAASSSSSSS!
Amazon has been doing a good job on this front. I can recommend the wonderful Small Axe series, the heart-breaking documentary Time, and the feature One Night in Miami..., all of them recent releases under the Amazon banner and helmed by Black filmmakers.
posted by Mothlight at 12:34 AM on April 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
We should not be entirely surprised Hollywood loves it some franchises.
They made 5 sequels to The Thin Man back in the 30s and 40s.
Twenty-eight Blondie films were made between the 30s and the 50s.
Hollywood loving franchises is not a new phenomenon, not at all.
posted by hippybear at 6:19 AM on April 18, 2021 [3 favorites]
They made 5 sequels to The Thin Man back in the 30s and 40s.
Twenty-eight Blondie films were made between the 30s and the 50s.
Hollywood loving franchises is not a new phenomenon, not at all.
posted by hippybear at 6:19 AM on April 18, 2021 [3 favorites]
Amazon needs a strategist instead of "throw everything against the wall and see what sticks" approach.
They got some hits in the Prime Originals, but their games division is in utter shambles, spending millions and years and still have nothing to show for it. Just BUY a studio and be done with it, got Pete's sake.
posted by kschang at 7:29 AM on April 18, 2021
They got some hits in the Prime Originals, but their games division is in utter shambles, spending millions and years and still have nothing to show for it. Just BUY a studio and be done with it, got Pete's sake.
posted by kschang at 7:29 AM on April 18, 2021
They made 5 sequels to The Thin Man back in the 30s and 40s.
Turns out that the dog was a huge box-office draw. And he worked for scraps.
posted by mikelieman at 8:01 AM on April 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
Turns out that the dog was a huge box-office draw. And he worked for scraps.
posted by mikelieman at 8:01 AM on April 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
Amazon needs a strategist instead of "throw everything against the wall and see what sticks" approach.
I opine that this IS their strategy. They have enough money and resources to do a lot of different things and then invest further in what “works” based on metrics. No different than their own delivery service, airline, branded items, and so on.
posted by hijinx at 8:28 AM on April 18, 2021 [3 favorites]
I opine that this IS their strategy. They have enough money and resources to do a lot of different things and then invest further in what “works” based on metrics. No different than their own delivery service, airline, branded items, and so on.
posted by hijinx at 8:28 AM on April 18, 2021 [3 favorites]
I'm trying to figure out where the money is going. (465 million for ten eps) 46.5 million per episode is nearly double what was epnt on the 'Westworld' pilot, and considerably more than double an ep of the Mandalorian or Game of Thrones. The Expanse, at 5 million per ep, isn't even close. So what's so expensive?
(source: some Googling, I'm prepared to be off by a few million, but my original point still stands)
posted by Mogur at 8:39 AM on April 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
(source: some Googling, I'm prepared to be off by a few million, but my original point still stands)
posted by Mogur at 8:39 AM on April 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
Hollywood loving franchises is not a new phenomenon, not at all.
If they will come, Hollywood will build it.
Ditto publishing. Audiences like to hang out with known and liked characters. Sherlock Holmes predated the flickers. Hell, Elizabeth I (allegedly) liked Falstaff so much that Shakespeare had to write The Merry Wives of Windsor.
I opine that this IS their strategy.
And not necessarily a bad one at that, given that the strangest left field things can turn out to be monster hits ("A girl follows a talking rabbit down a hole and plays croquet with flamingoes and hedgehogs? No, I'm sorry, Mr. Dodgson, that's madness, no one would buy such a book.")
It ain't easy picking winners in popular entertainment.
posted by BWA at 8:39 AM on April 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
If they will come, Hollywood will build it.
Ditto publishing. Audiences like to hang out with known and liked characters. Sherlock Holmes predated the flickers. Hell, Elizabeth I (allegedly) liked Falstaff so much that Shakespeare had to write The Merry Wives of Windsor.
I opine that this IS their strategy.
And not necessarily a bad one at that, given that the strangest left field things can turn out to be monster hits ("A girl follows a talking rabbit down a hole and plays croquet with flamingoes and hedgehogs? No, I'm sorry, Mr. Dodgson, that's madness, no one would buy such a book.")
It ain't easy picking winners in popular entertainment.
posted by BWA at 8:39 AM on April 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
I mean who the fuck cares about a hobbit gameshow.
/slowly raises hand
It will be hosted by Joe Buck.
posted by srboisvert at 8:55 AM on April 18, 2021
/slowly raises hand
It will be hosted by Joe Buck.
posted by srboisvert at 8:55 AM on April 18, 2021
Mogur - the budget will provide feature film production characteristics.
Fewer pages of script shot per day - allows for more elaborate scenes and for the insertion of more complex CGI.
Fewer "bottle" scenes. (In scifi and action shows, bottle scenes are the talking scenes within the established stage sets that can be quickly shot and require little or no FX ... and operate to lower the average budget of a show).
More location shooting and bigger sets on soundstages and (the gold standard) large sets built on location, which are basically unaffordable on standard television budgets.
Far better FX ... both more and better CGI ... and partially and wholly in-camera FX, including pyro, wirework, elaborate make-up, full-scale animatronics, etc., also ruinously expensive.
Better writers. (Just kidding.)
posted by MattD at 9:51 AM on April 18, 2021
Fewer pages of script shot per day - allows for more elaborate scenes and for the insertion of more complex CGI.
Fewer "bottle" scenes. (In scifi and action shows, bottle scenes are the talking scenes within the established stage sets that can be quickly shot and require little or no FX ... and operate to lower the average budget of a show).
More location shooting and bigger sets on soundstages and (the gold standard) large sets built on location, which are basically unaffordable on standard television budgets.
Far better FX ... both more and better CGI ... and partially and wholly in-camera FX, including pyro, wirework, elaborate make-up, full-scale animatronics, etc., also ruinously expensive.
Better writers. (Just kidding.)
posted by MattD at 9:51 AM on April 18, 2021
Alternatively, less CGI and as many practical effects as possible, which will require genetically engineering actual Ents.
posted by oulipian at 10:56 AM on April 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by oulipian at 10:56 AM on April 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
Otherwise known as Enterprize CGI support.
posted by benzenedream at 2:03 PM on April 18, 2021
posted by benzenedream at 2:03 PM on April 18, 2021
Genetic engineering? The Enter-prize? Actual Ents?
Don't give Bezos any ideas about what sort of CRISPr contests to fund!
posted by hippybear at 2:23 PM on April 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
Don't give Bezos any ideas about what sort of CRISPr contests to fund!
posted by hippybear at 2:23 PM on April 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
They got some hits in the Prime Originals
How did that Nazi hunter show with Al Pacino do? What a hot mess that became.
posted by thelonius at 3:03 PM on April 18, 2021
How did that Nazi hunter show with Al Pacino do? What a hot mess that became.
posted by thelonius at 3:03 PM on April 18, 2021
It will be hosted by Joe Buck.
The we should go with my first idea: a network morning news show starring hobbits called "Second Breakfast to Elevenses"
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 3:44 PM on April 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
The we should go with my first idea: a network morning news show starring hobbits called "Second Breakfast to Elevenses"
posted by NoThisIsPatrick at 3:44 PM on April 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
Sex? In Lord of the Rings? That would be a major change.
I refute it thus:
I refute it thus:
"Do you like what you doth see...?" said the voluptuous elf-maiden as she provocatively parted the folds of her robe to reveal the rounded, shadowy glories within. Frito's throat was dry, though his head reeled with desire and ale.posted by kirkaracha at 10:20 PM on April 18, 2021 [3 favorites]
She slipped off the flimsy garment and strode toward the fascinated boggie unashamed of her nakedness. She ran a perfect hand along his hairy toes, and he helplessly watched them curl with the fierce insistent wanting of her.
All I can say is that for $650M, there had better be some significant development of Figwit's back-story.
posted by Nerd of the North at 11:06 PM on April 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Nerd of the North at 11:06 PM on April 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
We know at least he is a flautist/singer in Rivendell's second most renowned troupe of minstrels/jesters, that should be enough for anyone.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 12:41 AM on April 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Jon Mitchell at 12:41 AM on April 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
a Harbour Bridge crisis
KLAXON.WAV
rednikki's assimilated.
posted by pompomtom at 5:56 AM on April 19, 2021
KLAXON.WAV
rednikki's assimilated.
posted by pompomtom at 5:56 AM on April 19, 2021
"Do you like what you doth see...?"
Renowned Dan Brown, is that you?
posted by ishmael at 7:23 AM on April 19, 2021
Renowned Dan Brown, is that you?
posted by ishmael at 7:23 AM on April 19, 2021
If it isn't a symphonic metal musical rendition of the Similrillion then I'm not interested.
posted by Glenn Grothman at 11:19 AM on April 19, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Glenn Grothman at 11:19 AM on April 19, 2021 [4 favorites]
We know at least he is a flautist/singer in Rivendell's second most renowned troupe of minstrels/jesters, that should be enough for anyone.
Meaningless without merch.
If it isn't a symphonic metal musical rendition of the Similrillion then I'm not interested.
Trans-Siberian Orchestra, of course. Here, feast your listen holes on: Love Theme from Lord of the Rings
posted by rhizome at 5:08 PM on April 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
Meaningless without merch.
If it isn't a symphonic metal musical rendition of the Similrillion then I'm not interested.
Trans-Siberian Orchestra, of course. Here, feast your listen holes on: Love Theme from Lord of the Rings
posted by rhizome at 5:08 PM on April 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
Otherwise, HBO has Game of Thrones, Amazon has Lord of the Rings, Disney+ has Marvel and Star Wars.
Yes. The final episode of the first season will have our protagonists, some...dwarves or elves or whatever facing off against the Toughest Enemies Ever:Darktroopers Mega-Badger-Folk! Whatever shall they do, there is no way to beat them! But what's this on the horizon? A fancy horse with the familiar regalia of the Dúnedain? A shadowy hooded figure dismounts, and slices through the terrible foe! Could it be? Why, yes! A fucking terrible CGI replica of young Mark Hamill Viggo Mortensen!
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:24 PM on April 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yes. The final episode of the first season will have our protagonists, some...dwarves or elves or whatever facing off against the Toughest Enemies Ever:
posted by turbid dahlia at 6:24 PM on April 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
I just want to see Tom Bombadil
posted by ShakeyJake at 7:38 AM on April 22, 2021
posted by ShakeyJake at 7:38 AM on April 22, 2021
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posted by Foci for Analysis at 3:24 AM on April 17, 2021 [3 favorites]