#sofagate

April 26, 2021 3:09 PM

“I felt hurt. And I felt alone – as a woman and as a European. Because it is not about seating arrangements or protocol,” Von der Leyen said. “This goes to the core of who we are. This is what our union stands for. And this shows how far we still have to go before women are treated as equals, always and everywhere.” ‘Sofagate’ snub would not have happened to a man [Grauniad]

It was an unusually sharp comment from the normally soft-mannered von der Leyen, as she offered her most extensive public comments on the situation since it occurred earlier this month. [Politico]
What ‘Sofagate’ says about Charles Michel [Politico]
Turkey blames EU in 'sofagate' diplomatic spat [BBC]
The EU Helped Create the Erdogan of Today. Why the Shock and Awe over Sofagate? [EuropeanViews]

posted by chavenet (28 comments total)

Seen surprisingly little on the topic of the Politico article on Michel grabbing a seat like it was kids playing musical chairs and staying seated. My immediate reaction was that he was being an arsehole, and politically its difficult to disagree with Politico's argument that it was not a well thought through approach on his part.
posted by biffa at 3:19 PM on April 26, 2021 [2 favorites]

It would have been simple to ask someone to bring in a third chair, but that requires thinking that a woman matters.
posted by Chrysopoeia at 3:33 PM on April 26, 2021 [8 favorites]

European Council President Charles Michel admitted he may have made a mistake during what has been dubbed Sofagate, but said he feared speaking out would have caused a diplomatic incident. (Politico, April 8, 2021) If speaking's not your strong suit, maybe bringing the chair over to the sofa was your move.
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:04 PM on April 26, 2021 [6 favorites]

“Oh dear! Please sit right here. I will get myself another chair.”

Also, did he not know another person was coming? Did he not notice there were only two chairs for a three person meeting?
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 4:25 PM on April 26, 2021 [6 favorites]

who was supposed to sit on whose lap
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:41 PM on April 26, 2021 [4 favorites]

that woman is a saint, being able to repress the loud "are you fucking kidding me" that that situation so richly deserved.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 4:44 PM on April 26, 2021 [13 favorites]

If you can't figure out how to ask for a third chair without causing a diplomatic incident, maybe you should rethink your career.
posted by fatbird at 4:44 PM on April 26, 2021 [53 favorites]

because it's her responsibility to fix other people's mistakes? whut?
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 4:52 PM on April 26, 2021 [1 favorite]

If you can't figure out how to ask for a third chair without causing a diplomatic incident, maybe you should rethink your career.

Kinda wild how many different ways a comment cam be misguided all at once.
posted by mhoye at 4:57 PM on April 26, 2021 [4 favorites]

Kinda wild how many different ways a comment cam be misguided all at once.

Sorry, I was unclear. I was reacting to this:

European Council President Charles Michel... said he feared speaking out would have caused a diplomatic incident.

posted by fatbird at 4:59 PM on April 26, 2021 [21 favorites]

ah, that makes more sense, thanks
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 5:00 PM on April 26, 2021 [2 favorites]

Oh my! Not a good look for EU. Michel is sending the message that womens equality/rights will take a backseat to other diplomatic matters as far as EU is concerned.
posted by asra at 5:11 PM on April 26, 2021 [1 favorite]

When saw the headline, I thought "I wonder what pathetic excuse the dudes in the meeting will give for not addressing it in the moment." Come to read this:

Ahead of Von der Leyen’s speech, Michel said he would ensure that such a “protocol incident” would never be repeated, adding that he had not reacted at the time for fear of undermining the purpose of the visit.

He said: “I have expressed my regret publicly for the situation that was created. My apologies to the commission, and all those who felt offended.

“The facts behind it are well known. The council protocol team did not get access to the meeting room before the meeting was held, and the commission did not send its protocol team in advance. The teams did not enjoy access to seat allocation before the meeting started.

“Ursula von der Leyen and myself have committed to ensure that that situation can no longer occur in the future, and we’ve given instructions along those lines to our protocol and diplomatic teams.”

He added: “I know that these circumstances led a number of you to believe that at that point I should have taken a different line of conduct, and obviously I hear that criticism, but at that time, and without the hindsight we all have today, I decided not to react further so as not to create a political incident that I thought would be still more serious and would risk ruining months of political and diplomatic groundwork, made by all our teams at a European level.

“Now, of course I understand the images will have offended many women, and I would like to reaffirm my total full and absolute commitment to support women and gender equality. This is a matter that I’ve regularly dealt with in my political career.”

So basically, blame the protocol staff.
posted by medusa at 5:30 PM on April 26, 2021 [4 favorites]

Those dang underlings, always stabbing a dude in the back just when he's trying to be maximally cowardly.
posted by aramaic at 6:04 PM on April 26, 2021 [6 favorites]

In my experience, not providing suitable furniture etc. is a deliberate decision.
posted by unearthed at 6:29 PM on April 26, 2021 [14 favorites]

"Now, of course I understand the images will have offended many women, and I would like to reaffirm my total full and absolute commitment to support women and gender equality. This is a matter that I’ve regularly dealt with in my political career.”

The fact that he thought the offense would be limited to women is telling.
posted by Toddles at 7:58 PM on April 26, 2021 [23 favorites]

Whether or not a protocol team had access to the room in advance, I guarantee you that there were multiple people standing in the wings whose job description includes "scramble to grab another chair on short notice if asked."
posted by evidenceofabsence at 8:50 PM on April 26, 2021 [7 favorites]

From the FPP's first Guardian link: The video footage of the incident in the Turkish presidential complex had shown a visibly astonished Von der Leyen gesticulate at the two men as they sat down. [...] Among the issues discussed at the summit had been Turkey’s decision to leave the Istanbul convention on gender-based violence. Two weeks before the summit: Turkey’s withdrawal from women’s protection treaty, ‘worrying step backwards’ (UN News) In 2012, Turkey was the first of 35 Member States to ratify the Istanbul Convention, and on Saturday, the experts noted, with no debate in Parliament or with society at large, it announced its decision to withdraw by Presidential decree.

The summit's host, the president of Turkey, was responsible for the surprise chair shortage; out of fear and weakness, Michel provided an assist. He's only made himself look weaker in the weeks since it happened.
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:10 PM on April 26, 2021 [9 favorites]

The curious thing is that this is not ‘old-fashioned’ behaviour, but an entirely new kind of snub. A Victorian gentleman would have been appalled by two blokes sitting and ignoring the seatless lady.
posted by Phanx at 10:35 PM on April 26, 2021 [7 favorites]

To quote True Grit, ‘Keep your seat, trash.’
posted by Phanx at 10:45 PM on April 26, 2021 [8 favorites]

Quite apart from the gender aspect, what kind of host leaves a guest standing or seats them in an inferior seat? This goes against every aspect of hospitality. Times 1000 in a diplomatic situation.

She's absolutely right this wouldn't have happened if she were a man and it's hard not to take it as deliberate.
posted by trig at 1:05 AM on April 27, 2021 [4 favorites]

Autocrats don't generally screw up photo-ops. This was a deliberate message, and the message was "You need us more than we need you, so we can fuck with you and you'll both take it." Completely crude, but everyone on the EU side clearly knew that was going on, and proved themselves spineless in the face of what I'm sure was Erdogan's delight. After years of toying with EU membership, he's pulled a complete 180, and now nobody on the West wants to piss off of his up and coming theocracy. The only exception is Bide. With the withdrawal from Afghanistan, we don't need those Turkish military bases anymore. So yes, the US can finally acknowledge that Turkey"s Armenian genocide was real in a situation where we hold such little influence in the region diplomatically, the most blowback we got was a collective shrug to what had previously been make or break policy. Estrogen couldn't have asked for a better outcome from this the whole thing.
posted by lock robster at 1:36 AM on April 27, 2021 [10 favorites]

Quite apart from the gender aspect, what kind of host leaves a guest standing or seats them in an inferior seat?

Does anyone believe it wasn't intentional? And caused exactly the kind of uproar and loss of face for his guests he was hoping for?
posted by Omnomnom at 4:31 AM on April 27, 2021 [6 favorites]

Absolutely intentional on Erdogan's part, and the situation was by his design, but Michel should have seen it for what it was and given up his seat to Von der Leyen.

Another way of thinking is that causing diplomatic incidents with Erdogan should be seen as a good thing.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:35 AM on April 27, 2021 [7 favorites]

but Michel should have seen it for what it was and given up his seat to Von der Leyen.

I think they should both have remained standing with a deadpan, raised eyebrow stare at Erdogan. He loses face.

But then I’m not a diplomat.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 7:55 AM on April 27, 2021 [12 favorites]

I think they should both have remained standing with a deadpan, raised eyebrow stare at Erdogan. He loses face.

But then I’m not a diplomat.

You'd be better at it than Michel.
posted by jb at 9:03 AM on April 27, 2021 [3 favorites]

With the withdrawal from Afghanistan, we don't need those Turkish military bases anymore. So yes, the US can finally acknowledge that Turkey"s Armenian genocide was real

Yep. As noted in historian Heather Cox Richardson's most recent "Letters from an American" newsletter (emphases below are mine): The U.S. had previously refused to recognize the ethnic cleansing for what it was because of the strategic importance of Turkey to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, or NATO (among other things, Turkey holds the straits that control access to the Black Sea, on which Russia and Ukraine, as well as other countries, sit). Biden’s recognition of the Armenian genocide is a reflection of the fact that Turkey’s president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, is increasingly close to Russian President Vladimir Putin and the Taliban, and appears to be abandoning democracy in his own country, giving Biden the room to take a step popular in America but previously too undiplomatic to undertake. (Remember when Erdogan’s security staff beat up protesters in Washington, D.C., in 2017 and prosecutors dropped the charges?)

Now that she's mentioned it, with a handy link, I do: U.S. drops charges against Turkish president's guards who allegedly beat up protesters (CBS News, March 23, 2018) U.S. prosecutors said Thursday they have dismissed all criminal charges against seven of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's bodyguards stemming from a brawl in Washington last year in which protesters were beaten. The charges were dropped last month just a day ahead of a meeting between Erdogan and now-outgoing Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, but the State Department said the timing was coincidental.
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:38 AM on April 27, 2021 [4 favorites]

For fear of "causing a diplomatic incident", eh? Did he not realise that he would be making a strong, public, diplomatic statement, whatever he did, and the only dilemma was which statement he would be making? Did he seriously not realise that?
posted by labberdasher at 1:39 PM on April 28, 2021