‘Rationals’ vs. ‘radicals’:
May 12, 2021 4:56 PM Subscribe
More than 100 Republican former officials to seek reforms, threaten new party "More than 100 influential Republicans plan to release a call for reforms within the GOP alongside a threat to form a new party if change isn't forthcoming, a person familiar with the effort said."
"The statement, set to be released Thursday, involves a "Call for American Renewal," a credo that declares that it is imperative to "either reimagine a party dedicated to our founding ideals or else hasten the creation of such an alternative." The push will include 13 yet-to-be-revealed principles that the signatories want the GOP to embrace.
The move was first reported by Reuters, which cited some of the people involved: former New Jersey Gov. Christine Todd Whitman, the former administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency; former Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Ridge, the first secretary of homeland security; former Transportation Secretary Mary Peters; and former GOP Reps. Charlie Dent of Pennsylvania, Barbara Comstock of Virginia, Reid Ribble of Wisconsin and Mickey Edwards of Oklahoma. Evan McMullin, a former CIA agent who ran for president as an independent in 2016, is also involved."
Also covered at Reuters (where the post title comes from) and NYT.
From the NYT link: “This is a first step,” said Miles Taylor, an organizer of the effort and a former Trump-era Department of Homeland Security official who anonymously wrote a book condemning the Trump administration. In October, Mr. Taylor acknowledged he was the author of both the book and a 2018 New York Times Op-Ed article.
“This is us saying that a group of more than 100 prominent Republicans think that the situation has gotten so dire with the Republican Party that it is now time to seriously consider whether an alternative might be the only option,” he said.
“I’m still a Republican, but I’m hanging on by the skin of my teeth because how quickly the party has divorced itself from truth and reason,” Mr. Taylor said. “I’m one of those in the group that feels very strongly that if we can’t get the G.O.P. back to a rational party that supports free minds, free markets, and free people, I’m out and a lot of people are coming with me.”
"The statement, set to be released Thursday, involves a "Call for American Renewal," a credo that declares that it is imperative to "either reimagine a party dedicated to our founding ideals or else hasten the creation of such an alternative." The push will include 13 yet-to-be-revealed principles that the signatories want the GOP to embrace.
The move was first reported by Reuters, which cited some of the people involved: former New Jersey Gov. Christine Todd Whitman, the former administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency; former Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Ridge, the first secretary of homeland security; former Transportation Secretary Mary Peters; and former GOP Reps. Charlie Dent of Pennsylvania, Barbara Comstock of Virginia, Reid Ribble of Wisconsin and Mickey Edwards of Oklahoma. Evan McMullin, a former CIA agent who ran for president as an independent in 2016, is also involved."
Also covered at Reuters (where the post title comes from) and NYT.
From the NYT link: “This is a first step,” said Miles Taylor, an organizer of the effort and a former Trump-era Department of Homeland Security official who anonymously wrote a book condemning the Trump administration. In October, Mr. Taylor acknowledged he was the author of both the book and a 2018 New York Times Op-Ed article.
“This is us saying that a group of more than 100 prominent Republicans think that the situation has gotten so dire with the Republican Party that it is now time to seriously consider whether an alternative might be the only option,” he said.
“I’m still a Republican, but I’m hanging on by the skin of my teeth because how quickly the party has divorced itself from truth and reason,” Mr. Taylor said. “I’m one of those in the group that feels very strongly that if we can’t get the G.O.P. back to a rational party that supports free minds, free markets, and free people, I’m out and a lot of people are coming with me.”
yeah, good luck with that.
posted by Makwa at 5:07 PM on May 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Makwa at 5:07 PM on May 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
In contrast, 124 former US admirals and generals have released an open letter claiming that Biden stole the election.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:09 PM on May 12, 2021 [31 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:09 PM on May 12, 2021 [31 favorites]
No. Don't. Stop.
posted by abulafa at 5:26 PM on May 12, 2021 [24 favorites]
posted by abulafa at 5:26 PM on May 12, 2021 [24 favorites]
Yeah, the "former" that you see preceding most of these names should tell you something. I think this group will quickly find they're not nearly as influential as they may think they are.
posted by theory at 5:32 PM on May 12, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by theory at 5:32 PM on May 12, 2021 [14 favorites]
This is a good thing on the simple principle that now is the time for people to speak truth against The Big Lie. Do it, and do it hard. This is at some level a Republican problem created by Republicans, and Republicans must fix it.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:33 PM on May 12, 2021 [45 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 5:33 PM on May 12, 2021 [45 favorites]
I wish them just enough luck to split the GOP down the middle.
posted by adamrice at 5:36 PM on May 12, 2021 [63 favorites]
posted by adamrice at 5:36 PM on May 12, 2021 [63 favorites]
I’m interested in what these 13 principles of the new, improved GOP will be. ‘Secure’ voting, reduced ‘domestic’ spending, ‘law and order’ and the usual dog whistles will surely be there, just not so overt as the current party.
Yeah, good luck with your primary voters.
posted by sudogeek at 5:36 PM on May 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
Yeah, good luck with your primary voters.
posted by sudogeek at 5:36 PM on May 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
As long as it's okay with the donors, anything goes. Retrofitting 'principles' onto it will be as fake as all the rest of their principles were.
posted by StarkRoads at 5:38 PM on May 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by StarkRoads at 5:38 PM on May 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
In any relationship, the one with the most power is the one that needs the other the most.
Between the raging mob of bloodthirsty psychopaths and the coterie of "serious" political professionals who rebuilt their political strategy around the mob taking orders from them, which do you think has the power in that relationship?
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:39 PM on May 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
Between the raging mob of bloodthirsty psychopaths and the coterie of "serious" political professionals who rebuilt their political strategy around the mob taking orders from them, which do you think has the power in that relationship?
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:39 PM on May 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
I don't think they have to successfully take over the whole Republican party to succeed.
If they can peel off 5% of those who think of themselves as Republicans, that could make a difference in elections for both federal and local offices.
There are a substantial number of Republicans who have changed their registration (enough for there to be news stories about it). This gives them somewhere to direct their energies.
Third-party candidates can be enough of a spoiler to affect close elections.
This is not going to fix the massive cluster of fundamental problems with the Republican party, but it could help keep a few of the Trump sycophants from winning re-election.
I'd consider that a good thing.
posted by kristi at 5:40 PM on May 12, 2021 [28 favorites]
If they can peel off 5% of those who think of themselves as Republicans, that could make a difference in elections for both federal and local offices.
There are a substantial number of Republicans who have changed their registration (enough for there to be news stories about it). This gives them somewhere to direct their energies.
Third-party candidates can be enough of a spoiler to affect close elections.
This is not going to fix the massive cluster of fundamental problems with the Republican party, but it could help keep a few of the Trump sycophants from winning re-election.
I'd consider that a good thing.
posted by kristi at 5:40 PM on May 12, 2021 [28 favorites]
Max Burns: With Liz Cheney's ouster from leadership, the GOP has divided into two camps:
1. Those who believe Biden won the election and want to enact crippling voter suppression laws.
2. Those who don't believe Biden won the election and want to enact crippling voter suppression laws.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:42 PM on May 12, 2021 [135 favorites]
1. Those who believe Biden won the election and want to enact crippling voter suppression laws.
2. Those who don't believe Biden won the election and want to enact crippling voter suppression laws.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:42 PM on May 12, 2021 [135 favorites]
Like, the truth matters. I doubt that this will do much, but the truth matters, and anyone who has a platform from which to speak the truth should be doing it from now until November, 2022, and then for the next two years after that.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:45 PM on May 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 5:45 PM on May 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
As others have said, if this diverts even a small percentage of GOP vote to third-party candidates, then great. I wish them luck.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:45 PM on May 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:45 PM on May 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
Can't we please just get back to civilized bigotry and cruelty to the poors?
Michelle Obama just shared a piece of candy with this open letter, which was photographed at a baseball game with Ellen Degeneres last weekend.
posted by supercres at 5:46 PM on May 12, 2021 [12 favorites]
Michelle Obama just shared a piece of candy with this open letter, which was photographed at a baseball game with Ellen Degeneres last weekend.
posted by supercres at 5:46 PM on May 12, 2021 [12 favorites]
The majority of Republican politicians have decided that the best course of action is to push the Trump lie. I think that is a despicable choice but I also believe that they're correct. The republican base isn't interested in truth, winning fairly contested democratic elections, or living in a democracy so it's a mistake to pretend like they are.
posted by rdr at 5:47 PM on May 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by rdr at 5:47 PM on May 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
What party have you been operating in for the last 20 years? I don't understand how these stories fit in with the official propaganda.
posted by Bee'sWing at 5:54 PM on May 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Bee'sWing at 5:54 PM on May 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
The push will include 13 yet-to-be-revealed principles that the signatories want the GOP to embrace.
That's an auspicious number of principles upon which to found this new party!
posted by nikoniko at 6:01 PM on May 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
That's an auspicious number of principles upon which to found this new party!
posted by nikoniko at 6:01 PM on May 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
This new party sounds like the bad news bears, but anything that divides the Republicans, even a little, is good. Also, anything that makes the current core of the party look more obviously crazy and extreme is probably good for independents and undecided voters. But, yeah, this is the weakest political team ever fielded.
posted by snofoam at 6:06 PM on May 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 6:06 PM on May 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
1. Low taxes
2. No regulation of any kind
3. No Trumps
4. Solid colored ties
5. Teamwork, with the other 5 guys on the team
6. Insight?
7. Brutality
8. Male enhancement
9. Handshakefulness
10. Play hard
Ok what are the last 3?
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:07 PM on May 12, 2021 [32 favorites]
2. No regulation of any kind
3. No Trumps
4. Solid colored ties
5. Teamwork, with the other 5 guys on the team
6. Insight?
7. Brutality
8. Male enhancement
9. Handshakefulness
10. Play hard
Ok what are the last 3?
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:07 PM on May 12, 2021 [32 favorites]
if this diverts even a small percentage of GOP vote to third-party candidates
Don't forget "and most of the corporate donations".
*makes popcorn*
posted by heatherlogan at 6:08 PM on May 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
Don't forget "and most of the corporate donations".
*makes popcorn*
posted by heatherlogan at 6:08 PM on May 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
I'm really starting to grasp for *any* hope that we haven't just lived through the last US democratic election of our lifetimes. This isn't it.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:12 PM on May 12, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by ryanshepard at 6:12 PM on May 12, 2021 [11 favorites]
Ok what are the last 3?
11. Truthiness
12. ???
13. Profit
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:19 PM on May 12, 2021 [44 favorites]
11. Truthiness
12. ???
13. Profit
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:19 PM on May 12, 2021 [44 favorites]
This is like if the European Super League had tried to launch with ten former players, none of whom had ever scored a goal in their career.
posted by snofoam at 6:25 PM on May 12, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 6:25 PM on May 12, 2021 [14 favorites]
This is great! With luck, next some sort of ultra-Trumpers will split off. With more luck, the Democrats will then splinter into some sort of Greens-Hawkish Liberals-Core Dems formation. And then, at last, coalitions and reasonable compromises.
posted by cupcakeninja at 6:26 PM on May 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by cupcakeninja at 6:26 PM on May 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
Ok what are the last 3?
11. Truthiness
12. ???
13. Profit
You guys did we just invent a new party?
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:34 PM on May 12, 2021 [8 favorites]
11. Truthiness
12. ???
13. Profit
You guys did we just invent a new party?
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:34 PM on May 12, 2021 [8 favorites]
"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. It is in vain to say that democracy is less vain, less proud, less selfish, less ambitious, or less avaricious than aristocracy or monarchy. It is not true, in fact, and nowhere appears in history. Those passions are the same in all men, under all forms of simple government, and when unchecked, produce the same effects of fraud, violence, and cruelty."
-John Adams. Letter to John Taylor, December 1814.
posted by clavdivs at 6:35 PM on May 12, 2021 [36 favorites]
-John Adams. Letter to John Taylor, December 1814.
posted by clavdivs at 6:35 PM on May 12, 2021 [36 favorites]
This is like several small town cable access channels teaming up to launch a new streaming service to compete with Disney+.
posted by snofoam at 6:37 PM on May 12, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 6:37 PM on May 12, 2021 [15 favorites]
You guys did we just invent a new party?
Nope, just re-invented the old one.
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:43 PM on May 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
Nope, just re-invented the old one.
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:43 PM on May 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
Golem creator wishes for a new, more under-control Golem.
posted by jgooden at 6:50 PM on May 12, 2021 [21 favorites]
posted by jgooden at 6:50 PM on May 12, 2021 [21 favorites]
Golem creator wishes for a new, more under-control Golem.
Won't this require more clay....
posted by clavdivs at 7:04 PM on May 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
Won't this require more clay....
posted by clavdivs at 7:04 PM on May 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
Three parties: Democrats, Evil-Lite, and SPECTRE.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:15 PM on May 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:15 PM on May 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
The push will include 13 yet-to-be-revealed principles …
Well, that's odd. "The 13 principles" (of Jewish faith) was a list by Maimonides of what he considered to be fundamental beliefs of Judaism. It wasn't uncontroversial at the time, but has since entered Jewish liturgy in at least two separate renditions.
So, yes, this is probably coincidental, but I'm giving it some serious side-eye right now.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:16 PM on May 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
Well, that's odd. "The 13 principles" (of Jewish faith) was a list by Maimonides of what he considered to be fundamental beliefs of Judaism. It wasn't uncontroversial at the time, but has since entered Jewish liturgy in at least two separate renditions.
So, yes, this is probably coincidental, but I'm giving it some serious side-eye right now.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:16 PM on May 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
Please don't besmirch the noble dog by comparing them to Republicans. That's a joke. Anyway, I'm back after taking a moment to enjoy the schadenfreude.
Looking at the signatories, I see a lot of mid-Atlantic and midwestern Republicans from the 90's, basically the last vestiges of the GOP's relatively "liberal" (more like just center-right compared to far right) northeastern wing. This really started after the 94 Republican takeover when the GOP began transitioning to a southern/rural party centered on reactionary white voters. Jim Jeffords left in 2001 and started to caucus with Democrats. Arlen Spector switched from Republican to Democrat in 2008. Notice how many of those signatories are from Pennsylvania and New Jersey. Bush II was really the last link between the "old money" northeastern Republicans and the new neo-Dixiecrat based party - which by no means was exclusively based in the south; its interesting to view maps of confederate migration following the civil war and current patterns of "red" and "blue" states.
Anyway, Bush II might have put on a front of being a religious cowboy, at least before he reinvented himself as a kindly old painter after leaving office, but the Bushes are old money New Englanders who came to Texas to make money in the oil industry. Even Romney's dad was a relatively moderate Republican governor of Michigan.
Those Republicans are long gone. The Gingrich revolution of 94 started their demise; the tea party accelerated it; and Trump seems to have finished them off, at least for now. The danger in this rightward drift, though, is how formerly radical looking Republicans start to appear moderate just by breaking with their party on key issues. Charlie Dent came in with Gingrich wave of 94. Toomey, retiring after this term, used to be considered too radical for PA until he was elected in the Tea Party wave of 2010; for him, gun control was the concession to "centrists". Bush II and the Cheneys, of course, presided over a corrupt administration that looted this country and lied their way into a war of aggression that killed hundreds of thousands. The Overton window shifts in an ominous direction.
Given our electoral system, its difficult to sea how a third party of moderate Republicans wouldn't throw elections to Democrats. I suppose they could pull some voters who just vote with Democrats out of disgust for Trump, but my sense is they could never attract sufficient voters to win office. They'd just act as spoilers, as third parties in the US tend to since the civil war. The problem is that, as I suggested above, the divide is increasingly between rural and exurban areas dominated by older reactionary white voters and urban and suburban areas with a more diverse, younger electorate. Given that our constitution was set up by (white male) landowners in an agrarian society to protect their property against revolutionaries hoping to follow the examples of either the French of Haitian revolutions, voting blocks in rural and exurban areas have disproportionate representation in our government at both the federal and state level. And, hanging like the sword of damocles over the Democrats, are Republican voter suppression efforts dating to the election of Barak Obama: Hopefully the Republican split will counteract that somewhat.
Standard disclaimer when talking about political demographic trends: Individuals might not follow the voting patterns and beliefs of their demographic group.
posted by eagles123 at 7:22 PM on May 12, 2021 [22 favorites]
Looking at the signatories, I see a lot of mid-Atlantic and midwestern Republicans from the 90's, basically the last vestiges of the GOP's relatively "liberal" (more like just center-right compared to far right) northeastern wing. This really started after the 94 Republican takeover when the GOP began transitioning to a southern/rural party centered on reactionary white voters. Jim Jeffords left in 2001 and started to caucus with Democrats. Arlen Spector switched from Republican to Democrat in 2008. Notice how many of those signatories are from Pennsylvania and New Jersey. Bush II was really the last link between the "old money" northeastern Republicans and the new neo-Dixiecrat based party - which by no means was exclusively based in the south; its interesting to view maps of confederate migration following the civil war and current patterns of "red" and "blue" states.
Anyway, Bush II might have put on a front of being a religious cowboy, at least before he reinvented himself as a kindly old painter after leaving office, but the Bushes are old money New Englanders who came to Texas to make money in the oil industry. Even Romney's dad was a relatively moderate Republican governor of Michigan.
Those Republicans are long gone. The Gingrich revolution of 94 started their demise; the tea party accelerated it; and Trump seems to have finished them off, at least for now. The danger in this rightward drift, though, is how formerly radical looking Republicans start to appear moderate just by breaking with their party on key issues. Charlie Dent came in with Gingrich wave of 94. Toomey, retiring after this term, used to be considered too radical for PA until he was elected in the Tea Party wave of 2010; for him, gun control was the concession to "centrists". Bush II and the Cheneys, of course, presided over a corrupt administration that looted this country and lied their way into a war of aggression that killed hundreds of thousands. The Overton window shifts in an ominous direction.
Given our electoral system, its difficult to sea how a third party of moderate Republicans wouldn't throw elections to Democrats. I suppose they could pull some voters who just vote with Democrats out of disgust for Trump, but my sense is they could never attract sufficient voters to win office. They'd just act as spoilers, as third parties in the US tend to since the civil war. The problem is that, as I suggested above, the divide is increasingly between rural and exurban areas dominated by older reactionary white voters and urban and suburban areas with a more diverse, younger electorate. Given that our constitution was set up by (white male) landowners in an agrarian society to protect their property against revolutionaries hoping to follow the examples of either the French of Haitian revolutions, voting blocks in rural and exurban areas have disproportionate representation in our government at both the federal and state level. And, hanging like the sword of damocles over the Democrats, are Republican voter suppression efforts dating to the election of Barak Obama: Hopefully the Republican split will counteract that somewhat.
Standard disclaimer when talking about political demographic trends: Individuals might not follow the voting patterns and beliefs of their demographic group.
posted by eagles123 at 7:22 PM on May 12, 2021 [22 favorites]
Individuals might not follow the voting patterns and beliefs of their demographic group.
Grand Rapids for example.
nice take though the Haitian Revolution had another aspect, to potentially give more power to the white abolitionists, the very ones who formed the core of the original Republican party.
posted by clavdivs at 7:37 PM on May 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
Grand Rapids for example.
nice take though the Haitian Revolution had another aspect, to potentially give more power to the white abolitionists, the very ones who formed the core of the original Republican party.
posted by clavdivs at 7:37 PM on May 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
The majority of Republican politicians have decided that the best course of action is to push the Trump lie. I think that is a despicable choice but I also believe that they're correct. The republican base isn't interested in truth, winning fairly contested democratic elections, or living in a democracy so it's a mistake to pretend like they are.
The US Constitution does not appear to have the stuff in it to stand up to fascism internally. Money is part of the problem, but I wonder what the tipping point is, when Republicans have to have laws made against them, the way post-1945 Germany had to set up anti-Nazi laws.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:59 PM on May 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
The US Constitution does not appear to have the stuff in it to stand up to fascism internally. Money is part of the problem, but I wonder what the tipping point is, when Republicans have to have laws made against them, the way post-1945 Germany had to set up anti-Nazi laws.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:59 PM on May 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
Those Republicans are long gone. The Gingrich revolution of 94 started their demise; the tea party accelerated it; and Trump seems to have finished them off, at least for now.
My take is that those stern old people did in fact die and left a vacuum for the concept of traditional civic decency, which centrist Democrats have tried to fill but haven't moved quite fast enough to do.
... I wonder what the tipping point is, when Republicans have to have laws made against them, the way post-1945 Germany had to set up anti-Nazi laws.
What sinks us may in part be the fact that the First Amendment doesn't allow for the kind of hate speech laws that would provide for that. The anti-Nazi laws were imposed by victors, and I cannot imagine who could save us from ourselves now.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:07 PM on May 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
My take is that those stern old people did in fact die and left a vacuum for the concept of traditional civic decency, which centrist Democrats have tried to fill but haven't moved quite fast enough to do.
... I wonder what the tipping point is, when Republicans have to have laws made against them, the way post-1945 Germany had to set up anti-Nazi laws.
What sinks us may in part be the fact that the First Amendment doesn't allow for the kind of hate speech laws that would provide for that. The anti-Nazi laws were imposed by victors, and I cannot imagine who could save us from ourselves now.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:07 PM on May 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
Thing is, the conservatives could have us over a barrel if they had the imagination to picture two strong parties instead of one sliver-sized spoilers. They could have the respectable Adam Kinzinger types to reach out to women, minorities, and white college grads, while the fascists take the white revanchists. But really, the stuff is all coming from the same factory, and the two parties caucus together, crushing the Democrats.
The fact that I just came up with this probably means it has already been tried and doesn't work -- maybe back when we had Whigs -- but I don't know.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:13 PM on May 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
The fact that I just came up with this probably means it has already been tried and doesn't work -- maybe back when we had Whigs -- but I don't know.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:13 PM on May 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
More than 100 Republican former officials to seek reforms, threaten new party
... bringing 200 votes along with them.
As we've seen with Liz Cheney, the GOP has no interest in truth, governance, or democracy. Since the Gingrich era, as eagles123 references above, the Republicans have become less and less interested in any of these. The exurb-rural axis built into the Constitution gives land a constituency, and since Obama's election literally broke their brains, they have delighted not in playing by the rules but in playing with the rules to enshrine permanent minority power.
Should the GOP get both Houses of Congress and the White House in 2024, within 2 years watch them repeal the filibuster and split a bunch of willing red states into even more states to lock in a permanent stranglehold on the Senate and the Electoral College. Watch there grow a major movement in the GOP in the state houses of places like like Montana, the Dakotas, and the old Confederacy to request and get the GOP hat-tricked Federal branches to authorize splits and the creation 6-10 new states, with 12-20 new Senators, and 18-50+ blood-red electoral college votes.
posted by tclark at 8:31 PM on May 12, 2021 [9 favorites]
... bringing 200 votes along with them.
As we've seen with Liz Cheney, the GOP has no interest in truth, governance, or democracy. Since the Gingrich era, as eagles123 references above, the Republicans have become less and less interested in any of these. The exurb-rural axis built into the Constitution gives land a constituency, and since Obama's election literally broke their brains, they have delighted not in playing by the rules but in playing with the rules to enshrine permanent minority power.
Should the GOP get both Houses of Congress and the White House in 2024, within 2 years watch them repeal the filibuster and split a bunch of willing red states into even more states to lock in a permanent stranglehold on the Senate and the Electoral College. Watch there grow a major movement in the GOP in the state houses of places like like Montana, the Dakotas, and the old Confederacy to request and get the GOP hat-tricked Federal branches to authorize splits and the creation 6-10 new states, with 12-20 new Senators, and 18-50+ blood-red electoral college votes.
posted by tclark at 8:31 PM on May 12, 2021 [9 favorites]
8. Male enhancement
9. Handshakefulness
10. Play hard
Ok what are the last 3?
11. Play fair
12. Keep those balls
13. In the air.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:40 PM on May 12, 2021
9. Handshakefulness
10. Play hard
Ok what are the last 3?
11. Play fair
12. Keep those balls
13. In the air.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:40 PM on May 12, 2021
The consistently excellent historian Heather Cox Richardson, in today's Letters from an American, notes:
Despite some of the rhetoric here, I think there are millions of Republican voters who - to the extent that they think hard about it at all - consider their votes as supporting fiscal conservatism ( ... I know ... ), lower taxes, and an ethic of hard work. (Similarly, I don't think most Democratic voters think terribly hard about their votes. People are BUSY, and there are too many other things to think about.)
Obviously, the Trump fans are not going to be joining this new party; they're going to be mocking it.
But there are a lot of people who have voted Republican all their lives who do have limits. Give them someone to vote for who shares their values but doesn't brag about sexual assault, cozy up to Russia, and incite insurrection, and we might be surprised at how many will vote against Trumpists.
And, again, it doesn't have to be a majority of Republicans. Just enough to split the gerrymandered districts.
posted by kristi at 9:47 PM on May 12, 2021 [24 favorites]
Shortly after House Republicans removed Cheney from her leadership position, nine out of 14 voters in an Axios focus group said they would be willing to vote for a Republican in next year’s congressional races. But of those, 8 said they would not back any Republican who supports Trump’s lie that he won the 2020 election.A lot of comments here on MeFi paint Republican voters as all the same: know-nothing, racist, reveling in cruelty. But I don't think there's any reason to believe that all Republicans embrace the lies and cruelty of Republican politicians - just as not all Democratic voters think in lockstep about abortion rights or police reform or Medicare for all.
Despite some of the rhetoric here, I think there are millions of Republican voters who - to the extent that they think hard about it at all - consider their votes as supporting fiscal conservatism ( ... I know ... ), lower taxes, and an ethic of hard work. (Similarly, I don't think most Democratic voters think terribly hard about their votes. People are BUSY, and there are too many other things to think about.)
Obviously, the Trump fans are not going to be joining this new party; they're going to be mocking it.
But there are a lot of people who have voted Republican all their lives who do have limits. Give them someone to vote for who shares their values but doesn't brag about sexual assault, cozy up to Russia, and incite insurrection, and we might be surprised at how many will vote against Trumpists.
And, again, it doesn't have to be a majority of Republicans. Just enough to split the gerrymandered districts.
posted by kristi at 9:47 PM on May 12, 2021 [24 favorites]
Never interrupt your enemy when they are in the process of making a mistake.
posted by aramaic at 9:58 PM on May 12, 2021 [22 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 9:58 PM on May 12, 2021 [22 favorites]
My take is that those stern old people did in fact die and left a vacuum for the concept of traditional civic decency, which centrist Democrats have tried to fill but haven't moved quite fast enough to do.
I just wonder if those stern old people died with Eisenhower, or at least the Rockefeller Republicans the Goldwater wing fought with. Eisenhower called the Birchers and the reactionaries who wanted to undo the New Deal idiots, but those elements formed the base of the Tea Party in the form of the Koch brothers and their tentacles of influence. Nixon started the Southern Strategy that brought reactionary white voters angry about civil rights into the Republican party, but even he had labor and the remnants of Cold War liberalism to restrain him. That "liberal consensus" Schlesinger wrote about died with the election of Reagan, along with organized labor in the private sector. Still, even Reagan had to be careful to maneuver around "third rails" of the New Deal. Enough New Deal sentiment remained in the 80's that he had to commit to a "big tent" Republican Party, even if his sympathies lay with the reactionaries and the libertarian Goldwater wing.
I just think, contrary to the story I learned from high school history, as well as the triumphalism in the air when I came of age in the 90's, there always were elements of our polity that never went along with either the New Deal or Civil Rights. The Dixiecrats, when they existed, constantly used the filibuster to restrain the New Deal and later civil rights legislation. They form the Republican base now, having switched parties. The Koch brothers and their fellow travelers are still at work trying to undo what remains of the New Deal. They form the other wing of the Republican party. The architecture of our constitutional system gives them an inherent advantage in these efforts.
Those monsters are loose now, trying to enact voter suppression laws and stack the courts in their efforts to hold on to power. Perhaps there are enough "soft" Republican voters who will be disgusted by the extremism and follow the signatories of the letter to split the party. I certainly hope so. The shocks of the Depression, World War II, and then the Cold War seem to have papered over a lot of divisions within our country. I'm just afraid we won't be able to overcome those contraditctions to navigate the challenges of an interconnected, technologically advanced, gobalized world filled with dangers like climate change, inequality, and rising powers we have to find a way to coexist with instead of dominate.
posted by eagles123 at 10:20 PM on May 12, 2021 [17 favorites]
I just wonder if those stern old people died with Eisenhower, or at least the Rockefeller Republicans the Goldwater wing fought with. Eisenhower called the Birchers and the reactionaries who wanted to undo the New Deal idiots, but those elements formed the base of the Tea Party in the form of the Koch brothers and their tentacles of influence. Nixon started the Southern Strategy that brought reactionary white voters angry about civil rights into the Republican party, but even he had labor and the remnants of Cold War liberalism to restrain him. That "liberal consensus" Schlesinger wrote about died with the election of Reagan, along with organized labor in the private sector. Still, even Reagan had to be careful to maneuver around "third rails" of the New Deal. Enough New Deal sentiment remained in the 80's that he had to commit to a "big tent" Republican Party, even if his sympathies lay with the reactionaries and the libertarian Goldwater wing.
I just think, contrary to the story I learned from high school history, as well as the triumphalism in the air when I came of age in the 90's, there always were elements of our polity that never went along with either the New Deal or Civil Rights. The Dixiecrats, when they existed, constantly used the filibuster to restrain the New Deal and later civil rights legislation. They form the Republican base now, having switched parties. The Koch brothers and their fellow travelers are still at work trying to undo what remains of the New Deal. They form the other wing of the Republican party. The architecture of our constitutional system gives them an inherent advantage in these efforts.
Those monsters are loose now, trying to enact voter suppression laws and stack the courts in their efforts to hold on to power. Perhaps there are enough "soft" Republican voters who will be disgusted by the extremism and follow the signatories of the letter to split the party. I certainly hope so. The shocks of the Depression, World War II, and then the Cold War seem to have papered over a lot of divisions within our country. I'm just afraid we won't be able to overcome those contraditctions to navigate the challenges of an interconnected, technologically advanced, gobalized world filled with dangers like climate change, inequality, and rising powers we have to find a way to coexist with instead of dominate.
posted by eagles123 at 10:20 PM on May 12, 2021 [17 favorites]
These has-beens really think there's room in the political landscape for another capital-friendly centrist party looking to back up the status quo? I do predict revived interest in a third party, but on another part of the spectrum...
posted by St. Oops at 11:07 PM on May 12, 2021
posted by St. Oops at 11:07 PM on May 12, 2021
This seems more likely to peel off Manchin-ish dems than Republicans of any stripe. As farcical as the Lincoln Project.
posted by supercres at 11:22 PM on May 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by supercres at 11:22 PM on May 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
> Those monsters are loose now, trying to enact voter suppression laws and stack the courts in their efforts to hold on to power. Perhaps there are enough "soft" Republican voters who will be disgusted by the extremism and follow the signatories of the letter to split the party. I certainly hope so. The shocks of the Depression, World War II, and then the Cold War seem to have papered over a lot of divisions within our country. I'm just afraid we won't be able to overcome those contraditctions to navigate the challenges of an interconnected, technologically advanced, gobalized world filled with dangers like climate change, inequality, and rising powers we have to find a way to coexist with instead of dominate.
@Noahpinion: "Dems controlled the House in 2020. But with a Republican House, will GOP-controlled state legislatures send fake electors in 2024? And will this become normal, standard electoral practice going forward?"
The Darkness - "Illiberalism is on the march, all over the world."
@Noahpinion: "Dems controlled the House in 2020. But with a Republican House, will GOP-controlled state legislatures send fake electors in 2024? And will this become normal, standard electoral practice going forward?"
The Darkness - "Illiberalism is on the march, all over the world."
Before we can defeat the Darkness abroad, we’ve got to defeat it at home. And realistically, since Democrats will definitely not win an unbroken string of electoral victories from here to infinity, this means Republicans who recognize the threat of the Darkness have to stand up and take their party back from the people who think coups and election denial are good ideas...posted by kliuless at 12:21 AM on May 13, 2021 [4 favorites]
In the 20th century, democracy — not just the system of holding elections, but the entire package of human rights, minority rights, free expression, civil liberties, and social-democratic welfare protections — was the only system, the only ideology, that managed to defeat totalitarianism instead of morphing into totalitarianism. At its most fundamental level, what I’ve been calling the Darkness is a lack of respect for the value of individual human beings, while democracy (should I capitalize the “D”?) is the elevation of respect for humanity to the status of society’s fundamental organizing principle.
This is just the Hawks and Free Traders trying to reel back in the base.
posted by Beholder at 12:32 AM on May 13, 2021
posted by Beholder at 12:32 AM on May 13, 2021
Like, the truth matters. I doubt that this will do much, but the truth matters, and anyone who has a platform from which to speak the truth should be doing it from now until November, 2022, and then for the next two years after that.
They aren't interested in the truth - they're interested in reeling back in the double-imbeciles in their group that keep saying the quiet parts out loud and making the rest of them look unpalatable to centrists. The actual policies that would be supported are functionally identical to the Trump klan platform.
posted by FatherDagon at 1:09 AM on May 13, 2021 [9 favorites]
They aren't interested in the truth - they're interested in reeling back in the double-imbeciles in their group that keep saying the quiet parts out loud and making the rest of them look unpalatable to centrists. The actual policies that would be supported are functionally identical to the Trump klan platform.
posted by FatherDagon at 1:09 AM on May 13, 2021 [9 favorites]
I suppose 14 words points would have been too obvious.
posted by JohnFromGR at 3:22 AM on May 13, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by JohnFromGR at 3:22 AM on May 13, 2021 [4 favorites]
If anyone thinks that these "principled Republicans" will successfully form any kind of viable third party, where "viable" means "capable of actually getting on the ballot in 50 states," consider that they:
1) Won't.
2) Will, even if some of them peel off as Independents, caucus with the Republicans. Because they...
3) Will vote with the Republicans 100% on anything that matters.
If there was an ounce of centrism (much less progressivism) or principle among them, they would have split off from the party years ago. The Jeff Flakes of the world recognize Trumpist populism as a metastatic cancer, but they merely want to replace it with the painful rectal infection that THEY have traditionally represented. This is all about semi-plausible deniability, so that when they drive a steamroller over the poor, they can point to the side of it and declare that the steamroller doesn't have a MAGA logo on it.
posted by delfin at 6:05 AM on May 13, 2021 [13 favorites]
1) Won't.
2) Will, even if some of them peel off as Independents, caucus with the Republicans. Because they...
3) Will vote with the Republicans 100% on anything that matters.
If there was an ounce of centrism (much less progressivism) or principle among them, they would have split off from the party years ago. The Jeff Flakes of the world recognize Trumpist populism as a metastatic cancer, but they merely want to replace it with the painful rectal infection that THEY have traditionally represented. This is all about semi-plausible deniability, so that when they drive a steamroller over the poor, they can point to the side of it and declare that the steamroller doesn't have a MAGA logo on it.
posted by delfin at 6:05 AM on May 13, 2021 [13 favorites]
Yes we know but it’s fun to watch the other guys do the circular firing squad for a change.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:40 AM on May 13, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:40 AM on May 13, 2021 [5 favorites]
This is a fabulous financial move. For the moment, big business is scared of donating to Republicans even as much as they hate what Biden has said he plans to do on taxes and regulations. A group of Republicans with big names and a strategic pledge to be not-Trumpist-except-where-Trump-did-what-they-liked is tailor fit to sweep in tens of millions of dollars in contributions even if it has zero grass roots support.
If they get any traction, it won’t hurt Trumpists. They will run high profile primary campaigns against Marjorie Greene and Lauren Bolbert, and try to protect Cheney and Romney from primary challenges, sure, but for the most part they will be targeting swing Democratic seats with lots of Asian immigrants, and (if Biden doesn’t restore the SALT deduction) a couple of dozen high income suburban districts in high tax states. This will help the overall Republican coalition including the Trump supporters.
posted by MattD at 7:58 AM on May 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
If they get any traction, it won’t hurt Trumpists. They will run high profile primary campaigns against Marjorie Greene and Lauren Bolbert, and try to protect Cheney and Romney from primary challenges, sure, but for the most part they will be targeting swing Democratic seats with lots of Asian immigrants, and (if Biden doesn’t restore the SALT deduction) a couple of dozen high income suburban districts in high tax states. This will help the overall Republican coalition including the Trump supporters.
posted by MattD at 7:58 AM on May 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
I sure wish this movement had any chance of succeeding. So far of the rumored signatories none are currently serving elected officials in Congress. Sure Liz Cheney might sign on, but will anyone else? Any currently serving governors? Right now all we see are a bunch of "former.." titles.
The comments here on MeFi feel like whistling past a graveyard right now. American Democracy is deeply, deeply in peril. We absolutely need a legitimate conservative party, some acceptable alternative to the Democrats that believes roughly in the Constitution and democracy. (Yes I know two party systems suck and the Republican platform has been terrible for the past 60+ years, including violating democratic norms. But until now we've mostly had fair elections. And American government only works this one way; folks who believe in terrible politics must have representation too. Or else you get insurrection.)
But instead of legitimate Republican party what we have instead is this Trump cult that has taken over the GOP. And they control that party and control a lot of state legislators and are working right now to undermine democracy. Liz Cheney's stand in Congress yesterday and this new breakaway group are last gasp efforts to try to salvage the GOP and bring it back to American democratic norms. It's going to fail. Then what are we left with?
Remember the horror of weeks and weeks of waiting for states to certify the Biden / Trump vote? That only worked because a bunch of state Republican officials working in election offices did their jobs with conscience and legitimacy. Those people are all about to be washed out to sea and replaced with party loyalists. At least two state legislatures have passed laws that effectively give them the right to override popular elections entirely. What happens when the Georgia popular vote elects a Democrat senator again and the state legislator says "no, we're appointing this Republican instead"? It leads to civil war.
posted by Nelson at 8:26 AM on May 13, 2021 [7 favorites]
The comments here on MeFi feel like whistling past a graveyard right now. American Democracy is deeply, deeply in peril. We absolutely need a legitimate conservative party, some acceptable alternative to the Democrats that believes roughly in the Constitution and democracy. (Yes I know two party systems suck and the Republican platform has been terrible for the past 60+ years, including violating democratic norms. But until now we've mostly had fair elections. And American government only works this one way; folks who believe in terrible politics must have representation too. Or else you get insurrection.)
But instead of legitimate Republican party what we have instead is this Trump cult that has taken over the GOP. And they control that party and control a lot of state legislators and are working right now to undermine democracy. Liz Cheney's stand in Congress yesterday and this new breakaway group are last gasp efforts to try to salvage the GOP and bring it back to American democratic norms. It's going to fail. Then what are we left with?
Remember the horror of weeks and weeks of waiting for states to certify the Biden / Trump vote? That only worked because a bunch of state Republican officials working in election offices did their jobs with conscience and legitimacy. Those people are all about to be washed out to sea and replaced with party loyalists. At least two state legislatures have passed laws that effectively give them the right to override popular elections entirely. What happens when the Georgia popular vote elects a Democrat senator again and the state legislator says "no, we're appointing this Republican instead"? It leads to civil war.
posted by Nelson at 8:26 AM on May 13, 2021 [7 favorites]
But until now we've mostly had fair elections
I mean, the last time the Republicans won the popular vote was in 2004, and our electoral system was explicitly created to disadvantage certain people, so I don't think that's true.
posted by fnerg at 8:40 AM on May 13, 2021 [7 favorites]
I mean, the last time the Republicans won the popular vote was in 2004, and our electoral system was explicitly created to disadvantage certain people, so I don't think that's true.
posted by fnerg at 8:40 AM on May 13, 2021 [7 favorites]
Yes, I understand the anti-democratic limitations of the electoral college and its recent history. But at least it's a set of rules we all more or less agree we play by. Also it only affects the presidential election; the Republicans have won plenty of Congresses and Senates. Again, also with flawed mechanisms (particularly congressional gerrymandering) but at least by a mostly known set of rules.
What the GOP is doing now is a full-court press on eliminating all the rules. To give themselves the power to override elections they don't like. They're also very aggressively turning up the manipulation of our current system in their favor, particularly with voter suppression. Also it's redistricting season and there's absolutely nothing restraining Republicans in many states from even more egregious gerrymandering.
I'd change all this if I could to make American more democratic. But I'd change it slowly, and reasonably, through legislation and court decisions. What the Republicans are doing is just blowing it all up. And we're watching it happen.
posted by Nelson at 8:53 AM on May 13, 2021 [2 favorites]
What the GOP is doing now is a full-court press on eliminating all the rules. To give themselves the power to override elections they don't like. They're also very aggressively turning up the manipulation of our current system in their favor, particularly with voter suppression. Also it's redistricting season and there's absolutely nothing restraining Republicans in many states from even more egregious gerrymandering.
I'd change all this if I could to make American more democratic. But I'd change it slowly, and reasonably, through legislation and court decisions. What the Republicans are doing is just blowing it all up. And we're watching it happen.
posted by Nelson at 8:53 AM on May 13, 2021 [2 favorites]
"Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing."
"What the hell are you talking about?" Yossarian shouted at her in bewildered, furious protest. "How did you know it was Catch-22? Who the hell told you it was Catch-22?"
"The soldiers with the hard white hats and clubs. The girls were crying. 'Did we do anything wrong?' they said. The men said no and pushed them away out the door with the ends of their clubs. 'Then why are you chasing us out?' the girls said. 'Catch-22,' the men said. All they kept saying was 'Catch-22, Catch-22.' What does it mean, Catch-22? What is Catch-22?"
"Didn't they show it to you?" Yossarian demanded, stamping about in anger and distress. "Didn't you even make them read it?"
"They don't have to show us Catch-22," the old woman answered. "The law says they don't have to."
"What law says they don't have to?"
"Catch-22."
T'was ever the conservative credo.
posted by delfin at 9:27 AM on May 13, 2021 [3 favorites]
"What the hell are you talking about?" Yossarian shouted at her in bewildered, furious protest. "How did you know it was Catch-22? Who the hell told you it was Catch-22?"
"The soldiers with the hard white hats and clubs. The girls were crying. 'Did we do anything wrong?' they said. The men said no and pushed them away out the door with the ends of their clubs. 'Then why are you chasing us out?' the girls said. 'Catch-22,' the men said. All they kept saying was 'Catch-22, Catch-22.' What does it mean, Catch-22? What is Catch-22?"
"Didn't they show it to you?" Yossarian demanded, stamping about in anger and distress. "Didn't you even make them read it?"
"They don't have to show us Catch-22," the old woman answered. "The law says they don't have to."
"What law says they don't have to?"
"Catch-22."
T'was ever the conservative credo.
posted by delfin at 9:27 AM on May 13, 2021 [3 favorites]
@jayrosen_nyu: "'What Happens When Republicans Simply Refuse to Certify Democratic Wins?' by @DavidOAtkins If you think these are distant hypotheticals, you're not paying close enough attention. I know it's hard. But the threat is real."
@interfluidity: "Americans intuitively have a hard time imagining what democratic collapse would look like here. i think contemporary Israel provides a template, democratic legitimacy within a favored class gives legitimacy + cover to harsh suppression outside it. fear, very real, seals the deal."
@leedrutman: "Seems like there's something about majoritarian democracy that makes citizens dislike political parties, especially opposing political parties. Proportional representation is the solution to America's hyper-partisanship that remains hidden in plain sight." (American Affective Polarization in Comparative Perspective)
@gelliottmorris: "If you could make one change to the way the US electoral system works, what would it be?"
@Autarkh: "Unicameral parliamentary system elected by Mixed-Member Proportional (MMP) representation."
posted by kliuless at 9:41 AM on May 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
@interfluidity: "Americans intuitively have a hard time imagining what democratic collapse would look like here. i think contemporary Israel provides a template, democratic legitimacy within a favored class gives legitimacy + cover to harsh suppression outside it. fear, very real, seals the deal."
@leedrutman: "Seems like there's something about majoritarian democracy that makes citizens dislike political parties, especially opposing political parties. Proportional representation is the solution to America's hyper-partisanship that remains hidden in plain sight." (American Affective Polarization in Comparative Perspective)
@gelliottmorris: "If you could make one change to the way the US electoral system works, what would it be?"
@Autarkh: "Unicameral parliamentary system elected by Mixed-Member Proportional (MMP) representation."
posted by kliuless at 9:41 AM on May 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
I’m interested in what these 13 principles of the new, improved GOP will be.
Probably theRon Swanson GOP Pyramid of Greatness.
posted by pwnguin at 9:50 AM on May 13, 2021
Probably the
posted by pwnguin at 9:50 AM on May 13, 2021
"Ok what are the last 3?"
1. Hopes and Prayers
2. Hand up, not handout
3. Put 'Christ' back into Christmas
posted by Phreesh at 9:57 AM on May 13, 2021
1. Hopes and Prayers
2. Hand up, not handout
3. Put 'Christ' back into Christmas
posted by Phreesh at 9:57 AM on May 13, 2021
Could we get back these Radical Republicans? Please?
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 10:09 AM on May 13, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 10:09 AM on May 13, 2021 [2 favorites]
Trust ANY Republican at your own peril.
posted by dbiedny at 10:15 AM on May 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by dbiedny at 10:15 AM on May 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
I like this idea because third parties have traditionally done very well in this country.
posted by freakazoid at 10:40 AM on May 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by freakazoid at 10:40 AM on May 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
This seems like a national version of the United Utah Party. It was formed in 2016 as a place for non-Trumpy R's to coalesce. They say the quiet parts quietly and yearn for the good ol days. It's done nothing of note except be a spoiler for a few local races, most notably they captured enough votes to unseat our UT4 D representative in this previous election.
posted by msbutah at 12:37 PM on May 13, 2021
posted by msbutah at 12:37 PM on May 13, 2021
But of those, 8 said they would not back any Republican who supports Trump’s lie that he won the 2020 election.
I don't believe that self reporting. Republicans have shown time and time again that they're skilled at claiming to have ethical standards when asked about it by journalists and pollsters (no doubt while sitting in a small diner in a small rust belt town) and then holding their nose and voting for anyone with (R) after their name. More people voted for Trump the second time than first one and I don't believe that the big lie is a breaking point for them when the previous years weren't.
posted by Candleman at 12:51 PM on May 13, 2021 [11 favorites]
I don't believe that self reporting. Republicans have shown time and time again that they're skilled at claiming to have ethical standards when asked about it by journalists and pollsters (no doubt while sitting in a small diner in a small rust belt town) and then holding their nose and voting for anyone with (R) after their name. More people voted for Trump the second time than first one and I don't believe that the big lie is a breaking point for them when the previous years weren't.
posted by Candleman at 12:51 PM on May 13, 2021 [11 favorites]
The Republican Party blatantly embraced Trump's corruption through his entire term. They made a mockery of the impeachment process from start to finish, they echoed his many lies, they refused to condemn his preemptive election tampering via screwing with the mail system and casting doubt on expected-Dem-leaning votes-by-mail for months.
And that got them MORE votes for Trump and gains in the House.
All Republicans will have to do is raise the horrible notion come election time that, if they do not get your vote, the Democrat will win instead and that will be the Worst Thing In The Universe. And 99% of those "wavering ex-Republicans" will agree.
posted by delfin at 1:10 PM on May 13, 2021 [12 favorites]
And that got them MORE votes for Trump and gains in the House.
All Republicans will have to do is raise the horrible notion come election time that, if they do not get your vote, the Democrat will win instead and that will be the Worst Thing In The Universe. And 99% of those "wavering ex-Republicans" will agree.
posted by delfin at 1:10 PM on May 13, 2021 [12 favorites]
The 13 principles, plus a preamble and a list of signatories.
posted by doctornemo at 1:30 PM on May 13, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 1:30 PM on May 13, 2021 [2 favorites]
A preamble?! Maybe Republicans would be better off obeying the Constitution we have (including, specifically, the Reconstruction Amendments) than trying to imitate it for their political stunt.
posted by Gelatin at 1:38 PM on May 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Gelatin at 1:38 PM on May 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
Activists and Ex-Spy Said to Have Plotted to Discredit Trump ‘Enemies’ in Government
Ms. Ledeen later claimed to have obtained the deleted Clinton emails from the dark web and sought Mr. Prince’s assistance to authenticate them. “Erik Prince provided funding to hire a tech adviser to ascertain the authenticity of the emails. According to Prince, the tech adviser determined that the emails were not authentic,” the special counsel’s report said.posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:47 PM on May 13, 2021 [4 favorites]
She is part of a network of conservative activists who had particular influence in the Trump White House. She is a member of one group, Groundswell, that pushed to purge the White House and other government agencies of “deep state” enemies of Mr. Trump.
Last year, Axios reported that a memo written by Ms. Ledeen — laying out a case against a nominee for a top job in the Treasury Department — was instrumental in Mr. Trump’s decision to withdraw the nomination.
Ms. Ledeen is married to Michael Ledeen, who wrote the 2016 book “The Field of Fight” with Mr. Flynn. She said she retired from the Senate earlier this year.
After Mr. Flynn resigned under pressure as national security adviser, Mr. Trump gave the job to Mr. McMaster — inciting the ire of loyalists to Mr. Flynn.
Ms. Ledeen posted numerous negative articles about Mr. McMaster on her Facebook page. After The Times published its article about Mr. Prince’s work with Project Veritas, she wrote on Facebook, “We owe a lot to Erik Prince.”
@AshaRangappa: People who've been conned need an off ramp, a way to admit they were duped. Liz Cheney gives them permission to do that, which is why the GOP is losing their minds
posted by Going To Maine at 3:53 PM on May 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 3:53 PM on May 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Article from the Trump-supporting Washington Free Beacon:
Holocaust-Denier Among Founders of ‘Principled’ Never Trump Group
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:30 AM on May 15, 2021
Holocaust-Denier Among Founders of ‘Principled’ Never Trump Group
Among the founding members of a "principled" group of "prominent Republicans" working to counter conspiracy theories is a prominent Holocaust-denier.I, for one, am glad that the Washington Free Beacon has identified Republicans it can criticise: anti-Trump pro-Nazi ones. It's a start.
Pete McCloskey, a former congressman who referenced the "so-called Holocaust" in a keynote address that praised a top Holocaust-denial group, joined "A Call for American Renewal" as a founding signatory. According to former congressman Denver Riggleman, the group aims to "counter disinformation and conspiracy theories" and "step up in this fight for truth and integrity."
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:30 AM on May 15, 2021
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posted by mr_roboto at 5:06 PM on May 12, 2021 [17 favorites]