The Third Thumb
May 21, 2021 1:51 PM Subscribe
Robotic ‘Third Thumb’ use can alter brain representation of the hand “Body augmentation is a growing field aimed at extending our physical abilities, yet we lack a clear understanding of how our brains can adapt to it. By studying people using Dani’s cleverly-designed Third Thumb, we sought to answer key questions around whether the human brain can support an extra body part, and how the technology might impact our brain.”
Am I a child for immediately thinking of King Missile?
But seriously, I would love to see how this could be applied to people without full hands or feet. Or bracing for legs and broken backs. Cool!
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:59 PM on May 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
But seriously, I would love to see how this could be applied to people without full hands or feet. Or bracing for legs and broken backs. Cool!
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:59 PM on May 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
Dang, now I want one...
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 2:07 PM on May 21, 2021
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 2:07 PM on May 21, 2021
Some MeFites already have a third thumb! Well, had.
posted by kyrademon at 2:20 PM on May 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by kyrademon at 2:20 PM on May 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
"Who's got three thumbs and likes altering their brain representation of the hand? .... This guy!"
posted by paper chromatographologist at 2:38 PM on May 21, 2021 [24 favorites]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 2:38 PM on May 21, 2021 [24 favorites]
So the Third Thumb is controlled with your big toes? Does that mean if I leave it on when I go for a walk, the whole time it will be going WAP-WAP-WAP-WAP...?
posted by The Tensor at 2:40 PM on May 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by The Tensor at 2:40 PM on May 21, 2021 [6 favorites]
Does that mean if I leave it on when I go for a walk, the whole time it will be going WAP-WAP-WAP-WAP...?
Sentence of the year.
I came into here to talk about how great it is that the human mind is so plastic and malleable and how so much is made possible by tools and augmentations, and then I hit that sentence like a bird hitting a window and here we are.
posted by mhoye at 2:46 PM on May 21, 2021 [9 favorites]
Sentence of the year.
I came into here to talk about how great it is that the human mind is so plastic and malleable and how so much is made possible by tools and augmentations, and then I hit that sentence like a bird hitting a window and here we are.
posted by mhoye at 2:46 PM on May 21, 2021 [9 favorites]
I also want one to play with now!
I imagine the right sort of control system/software could detect the sort of toe flexion from walking around to cut down on unintentional third thumb wap-waps, or maybe it's just a matter of turning off the receiver manually.
It's the kind of research I suspect is confirming but casting clarity and deeper understanding of things we already pretty much knew: at a certain level of familiarity with tool use, the tools themselves are viewed by deeper brain systems and handled as part of the body. Proprioception extends and alters to include them, bad things happening to them will cause sympathetic winces and flinches, etc. Think of videos of really skilled heavy equipment operators doing amazingly delicate things with earthmoving equipment or forklifts and whatnot--I bet active brainscans during the process would show similar patterns of neural activation and engagement.
posted by Drastic at 2:54 PM on May 21, 2021 [13 favorites]
I imagine the right sort of control system/software could detect the sort of toe flexion from walking around to cut down on unintentional third thumb wap-waps, or maybe it's just a matter of turning off the receiver manually.
It's the kind of research I suspect is confirming but casting clarity and deeper understanding of things we already pretty much knew: at a certain level of familiarity with tool use, the tools themselves are viewed by deeper brain systems and handled as part of the body. Proprioception extends and alters to include them, bad things happening to them will cause sympathetic winces and flinches, etc. Think of videos of really skilled heavy equipment operators doing amazingly delicate things with earthmoving equipment or forklifts and whatnot--I bet active brainscans during the process would show similar patterns of neural activation and engagement.
posted by Drastic at 2:54 PM on May 21, 2021 [13 favorites]
I'm already all thumbs. Definitely don't need any more...
posted by jim in austin at 3:03 PM on May 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 3:03 PM on May 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
I could use a third middle finger.
posted by Phssthpok at 3:08 PM on May 21, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by Phssthpok at 3:08 PM on May 21, 2021 [20 favorites]
So amazing. What an amazing idea! Sometimes, I’m proud of humanity.
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 3:13 PM on May 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 3:13 PM on May 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
This is neat. I'm not sure I understand why it's different from lots of tools that people use all the time. I've spent many thousands of hours using tweezers and never consider what my hands are actually doing to manipulate them. Every once in a while I encounter a bent one that doesn't work as intended and it's a really disorienting experience. Chopsticks are similar (perhaps with more frequent repositioning due to food size.) Pencils and scissors might be in the same category.
posted by eotvos at 3:18 PM on May 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
The wearer controls it with pressure sensors attached to their feet, on the underside of the big toes.Wait, what? That's the part of the body I depend on more than most of my fingers. How do you walk or stand when the bottom of your toe causes your hand to move? Are we sure the fMRIs aren't just recording incredible frustration at having something glued to your big toe? I'm sure that's not true. But, if putting my toe on the ground made my hand move, I'd have to learn how to exist in the world like a newborn kitten. Many things would break.
posted by eotvos at 3:18 PM on May 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
I was told a story once (but I never verified it) that someone did an experiment with glasses that inverted people's vision so everything looked upside down. Supposedly, they had people wear them all the time for a long time, and one by one, everyone's vision eventually seemed to fix itself. It didn't look inverted to them.
And then when they stopped the experiment and everyone took their glasses off, their vision was inverted again.
I've heard of people getting so used to manipulating objects that it becomes second nature, like moving one of your limbs, and the big toe thing is kind of like that. But it's still remapping existing "control inputs". It would be even more interesting if you could just attach it to some unused, I don't know, nerves? That you never consciously ever use for anything else. You'd have to DISCOVER how to use it, by accident at first and then practice, like a baby. (I obviously have no idea how that would actually work physically)
posted by ctmf at 3:55 PM on May 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
And then when they stopped the experiment and everyone took their glasses off, their vision was inverted again.
I've heard of people getting so used to manipulating objects that it becomes second nature, like moving one of your limbs, and the big toe thing is kind of like that. But it's still remapping existing "control inputs". It would be even more interesting if you could just attach it to some unused, I don't know, nerves? That you never consciously ever use for anything else. You'd have to DISCOVER how to use it, by accident at first and then practice, like a baby. (I obviously have no idea how that would actually work physically)
posted by ctmf at 3:55 PM on May 21, 2021 [4 favorites]
Otto Octavius in his lab: an extra thumb, well whoop-de-freakin-doo.
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:06 PM on May 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:06 PM on May 21, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:19 PM on May 21, 2021 [8 favorites]
Wow, this was much more interesting that I thought it would be.
I had sort of an idea how this might work with how people* use tools and how after familiarization with the tool, that your brain treats it as part of your body in how you'd use it, but I was more than a bit floored by the execution. It feels like we've come a long way since the peg leg and hooks of yore. (Not to say that those don't work, because they obviously do.)
About a thousand years ago, my cousin was dating a guy who had lost his non-dominant arm in a motorcycle accident, and I was amazed as to how he coped with it and how even with his prosthetic he was more athletically coordinated that most people, and never figured out just why he complained about his hand itching.
Very nice to see such profound innovation of this style continuing.
* Homo Sapiens, other primates and even corvids :)
posted by Sphinx at 4:20 PM on May 21, 2021
I had sort of an idea how this might work with how people* use tools and how after familiarization with the tool, that your brain treats it as part of your body in how you'd use it, but I was more than a bit floored by the execution. It feels like we've come a long way since the peg leg and hooks of yore. (Not to say that those don't work, because they obviously do.)
About a thousand years ago, my cousin was dating a guy who had lost his non-dominant arm in a motorcycle accident, and I was amazed as to how he coped with it and how even with his prosthetic he was more athletically coordinated that most people, and never figured out just why he complained about his hand itching.
Very nice to see such profound innovation of this style continuing.
* Homo Sapiens, other primates and even corvids :)
posted by Sphinx at 4:20 PM on May 21, 2021
I remember hearing a third-hand anecdote about this kind of research about sensory augmentation through haptic feedback -- specifically pressure applied to the back as a substitute for vision. According to the anecdote, the test subjects interpreted the pressure data so successfully that when one of them was subsequently slapped on the back they experienced it as a falling sensation, as if they could see the ground coming towards them.
posted by confluency at 4:31 PM on May 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by confluency at 4:31 PM on May 21, 2021 [3 favorites]
Always had a dream of a virtual hand with, say, 1,000 fingers, that could play a virtual guitar (or stringed instrument) with, you know, 1,000 strings. The short clip of the person using the thumb to play guitar only encourages me.
posted by riverlife at 5:21 PM on May 21, 2021
posted by riverlife at 5:21 PM on May 21, 2021
>a third-hand anecdote
I see what you did there.
posted by mogget at 5:37 PM on May 21, 2021 [9 favorites]
I see what you did there.
posted by mogget at 5:37 PM on May 21, 2021 [9 favorites]
This is SO RAD
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 6:21 PM on May 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 6:21 PM on May 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
Most of us are occasionally all thumbs, but an unfortunate few are born with all (unopposable) fingers. See The 5- Finger Hand, Congenital Hand and Arm Differences, Dr. Charles Goldfarb, MD:
posted by cenoxo at 6:26 PM on May 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
The 5- finger hand is a rare anomaly in which there is no thumb, but rather 5 digits in the same plane (i.e., in a row) without a thumb. That means each digit has three bones (whereas the thumb normally has two bones). This is important because the normal thumb function is not present because there is no digit where the thumb normally rests. This means that manipulation of small objects is difficult because the fingers must manipulate the objects, on the side of each digit (scissoring). Without a thumb the fleshy pulp cannot manipulate the objects....As explained in the article, this can be corrected by surgery at a young age.
posted by cenoxo at 6:26 PM on May 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
I have dim memories from my undergraduate days of studies examining how tool use alters the shape of our cortical homunculus. This seems like an extreme example of that. From a completely unrelated field, I also have dim memories of Heidegger arguing that our tools become part of us, but I admit I never was completely clear on what exactly he was trying to say.
In either case, possible nightmare fuel appears behind my link if you scroll down.
posted by eagles123 at 7:56 PM on May 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
In either case, possible nightmare fuel appears behind my link if you scroll down.
posted by eagles123 at 7:56 PM on May 21, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm still waiting for my compass belt augmentation, I think it was promised almost 15 years ago here on Metafilter.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:43 PM on May 21, 2021
posted by Meatbomb at 9:43 PM on May 21, 2021
I was told a story once (but I never verified it) that someone did an experiment with glasses that inverted people's vision so everything looked upside down. Supposedly, they had people wear them all the time for a long time, and one by one, everyone's vision eventually seemed to fix itself. It didn't look inverted to them.
This was totally real! Here is a link to a YouTube video of someone who participated in an experiment with inverted glasses.
Thank you for dredging up this memory from psych 101.
posted by janepanic at 12:42 AM on May 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
This was totally real! Here is a link to a YouTube video of someone who participated in an experiment with inverted glasses.
Thank you for dredging up this memory from psych 101.
posted by janepanic at 12:42 AM on May 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
We did the inverted glasses thing in high school. It doesn't take days to see normally, just a few minutes! Go brains!
posted by starfishprime at 4:38 AM on May 22, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by starfishprime at 4:38 AM on May 22, 2021 [7 favorites]
MetaFilter: unintentional third thumb wap-waps
posted by briank at 6:02 AM on May 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by briank at 6:02 AM on May 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm still waiting for my compass belt augmentation, I think it was promised almost 15 years ago here on Metafilter.
I met the designer of one of these about a decade ago, you can order a kit of it from here.
posted by automatronic at 7:30 AM on May 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
I met the designer of one of these about a decade ago, you can order a kit of it from here.
posted by automatronic at 7:30 AM on May 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
Always had a dream of a virtual hand with, say, 1,000 fingers, that could play a virtual guitar (or stringed instrument) with, you know, 1,000 strings. The short clip of the person using the thumb to play guitar only encourages me.
Have you ever thought of taking up conducting?
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:32 AM on May 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
Have you ever thought of taking up conducting?
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:32 AM on May 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
The look of delight on the faces of the people using the 3rd thumb in the video is exactly like the look on a little baby's face as it waves its brand new hands and feet in the air -- "Hey look what I can do!"
Anything that can reawaken that awareness of how very cool it is just to exist in our bodies must be a good thing.
posted by Corvid at 2:31 PM on May 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
Anything that can reawaken that awareness of how very cool it is just to exist in our bodies must be a good thing.
posted by Corvid at 2:31 PM on May 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
I have a phantom extra thumb. My brain thinks there are thumbs on my hand right where this robot thumb goes.
It's very annoying, because I tend to drop things when I am tired and forget to that it's not actually there.
I've been following this project on and off and would be fascinated to try it out. Just to see if it would feel like the one that has never been there but feels like it is.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:08 PM on May 22, 2021 [3 favorites]
It's very annoying, because I tend to drop things when I am tired and forget to that it's not actually there.
I've been following this project on and off and would be fascinated to try it out. Just to see if it would feel like the one that has never been there but feels like it is.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 5:08 PM on May 22, 2021 [3 favorites]
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