This is the worst f*cking paper I have ever read in my life!!
May 26, 2021 1:36 PM Subscribe
Hbomberguy's latest video is about the anti-vaccine movement. What is the science behind it and is it any good ?
Vaccines: A Measured Response
Vaccines: A Measured Response
I have no idea how anyone watches these almost 2 hour twee and jokey youtube videos (although his britishness did keep me watching for about 20 minutes), but, in that time, he's not unfair to the Wakefield paper, or to Wakefield himself...
Anti-vaxxing was an increasingly noxious problem in the past few years, but mostly isolated to small communities. But the MMR / autism idiocy sowed the wind, and with the COVID madness we are now reaping the whirlwind, and it looks like we'll fail to reach herd immunity not because we can't manufacture and deliver the necessary vaccines in time, but because people ... just ... won't ... take them, and nothing can convince them otherwise, not even condescending chat bots.
posted by dis_integration at 2:22 PM on May 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
Anti-vaxxing was an increasingly noxious problem in the past few years, but mostly isolated to small communities. But the MMR / autism idiocy sowed the wind, and with the COVID madness we are now reaping the whirlwind, and it looks like we'll fail to reach herd immunity not because we can't manufacture and deliver the necessary vaccines in time, but because people ... just ... won't ... take them, and nothing can convince them otherwise, not even condescending chat bots.
posted by dis_integration at 2:22 PM on May 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
I just watched it all, and it's probably the best video he's made to date. I was only vaguely familiar with the case but it was shocking to learn the full extent of the medical malpractice and conflict of interest, and the fact that we are still reckoning with the consequences decades after the fact.
If you don't like his style then kindly skip the thread.
posted by Acey at 2:32 PM on May 26, 2021 [17 favorites]
If you don't like his style then kindly skip the thread.
posted by Acey at 2:32 PM on May 26, 2021 [17 favorites]
Mod note: Comment and a short reply removed. If you don't like a thing, coming into the thread to say you didn't like it and didn't consume it isn't a great way to start the thread. Please just skip a post and move on to something you like in the future.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:38 PM on May 26, 2021 [33 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:38 PM on May 26, 2021 [33 favorites]
I watched the whole thing, and I have to say he did a pretty good job of delving into the uncritical US media reception for Wakefield's claims, particularly after they'd been extensively and rigorously debunked while at the same time the Oprah Winfrey wellness-industrial complex and empty talking heads like Anderson Cooper or Bill Maher were all too happy repeat and amplify these claims.
The "Conclusion" section is the best part, IMO, since it addresses a lot of where we are now with the metastasis and integration of anti-vaccination propaganda into the broader public discourse in North America via US media once Wakefield had fucked off from the UK. As a way of tying the whole thing together, this was really well done.
But the profiterole bit was pretty good, too.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:54 PM on May 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
The "Conclusion" section is the best part, IMO, since it addresses a lot of where we are now with the metastasis and integration of anti-vaccination propaganda into the broader public discourse in North America via US media once Wakefield had fucked off from the UK. As a way of tying the whole thing together, this was really well done.
But the profiterole bit was pretty good, too.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:54 PM on May 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
But yeah, it's a long video. I ran it at 1.5x speed at certain points. This said, the young people are interested in making long-form content. I nod approvingly.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:56 PM on May 26, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:56 PM on May 26, 2021 [8 favorites]
I have no idea how anyone watches these almost 2 hour twee and jokey youtube videos
In fairness, for me, it's probably because I'm already familiar with him. There are certain bits in this video that are call-backs to previous bits in other videos. This video is almost certainly not a good intro to HBomberguy's oeuvre.
What is a good intro? I don't know.
A lot of of his videos were initially about video games and nerd culture. He seems to have been almost reluctantly dragged into leftist discourse just because to do nothing feels wrong. He gained a ton of popularity and followers from doing a Donkey Kong 64 stream for the Mermaids charity basically just because transphobes went out of their way to be assholes.
Every one of his "A Measured Response" videos certainly has an air of "I can't believe this has to be said at all, much less said by me, a random guy on the Internet whose claim to fame is chatting with AOC while controlling Funky Kong."
There's no shortage of self-important people explaining things on the Internet. Harry Brewis comes across as particularly genuine because of this irreverence and his millennial everyman standing. He's chagrined that it has to be researched, that it has to be said, that it has to be him. He just wants the world to get back to a place where the best use of his time is critiquing pop culture, instead of explaining important adult shit.
posted by explosion at 3:03 PM on May 26, 2021 [36 favorites]
In fairness, for me, it's probably because I'm already familiar with him. There are certain bits in this video that are call-backs to previous bits in other videos. This video is almost certainly not a good intro to HBomberguy's oeuvre.
What is a good intro? I don't know.
A lot of of his videos were initially about video games and nerd culture. He seems to have been almost reluctantly dragged into leftist discourse just because to do nothing feels wrong. He gained a ton of popularity and followers from doing a Donkey Kong 64 stream for the Mermaids charity basically just because transphobes went out of their way to be assholes.
Every one of his "A Measured Response" videos certainly has an air of "I can't believe this has to be said at all, much less said by me, a random guy on the Internet whose claim to fame is chatting with AOC while controlling Funky Kong."
There's no shortage of self-important people explaining things on the Internet. Harry Brewis comes across as particularly genuine because of this irreverence and his millennial everyman standing. He's chagrined that it has to be researched, that it has to be said, that it has to be him. He just wants the world to get back to a place where the best use of his time is critiquing pop culture, instead of explaining important adult shit.
posted by explosion at 3:03 PM on May 26, 2021 [36 favorites]
Ah, I recognized this guy from the infamous "Who would they [homeowners affected by rising sea levels] sell their houses TO, effing Aquaman???" response to Ben Shapiro.
posted by Schmucko at 3:45 PM on May 26, 2021 [24 favorites]
posted by Schmucko at 3:45 PM on May 26, 2021 [24 favorites]
Going in to watching it, I wasn't sure I could stomach such a long piece on a topic where I felt like I already knew enough to "have my opinion" and that was going to be a bit of a downer overall.
Turns out, Hbomb's snarky angry style with quick comedic sprinkles was exactly the carrier I needed to let me get through the immense amounts of immensely infuriating and atrocious things that are so important to cover in telling the story so completely.
I had no idea of the depths of horrendous stuff lurking in the background of the topic and I might have struggled to get through (or feel motivated to buy) Brian Deer's book, but I knew Harry's style from watching his Flat Earth and Climate Denial videos.
If anyone wants a more buttoned-down treatment of the subject, I would presume that Brian Deer's book (as referenced in the video's description text and called-out directly in the outro) would fill that niche.
posted by BuxtonTheRed at 3:52 PM on May 26, 2021 [9 favorites]
Turns out, Hbomb's snarky angry style with quick comedic sprinkles was exactly the carrier I needed to let me get through the immense amounts of immensely infuriating and atrocious things that are so important to cover in telling the story so completely.
I had no idea of the depths of horrendous stuff lurking in the background of the topic and I might have struggled to get through (or feel motivated to buy) Brian Deer's book, but I knew Harry's style from watching his Flat Earth and Climate Denial videos.
If anyone wants a more buttoned-down treatment of the subject, I would presume that Brian Deer's book (as referenced in the video's description text and called-out directly in the outro) would fill that niche.
posted by BuxtonTheRed at 3:52 PM on May 26, 2021 [9 favorites]
I watched the whole thing, and would definitely recommend it.
I knew generally about how Wakefield had committed fraud, how his paper was retracted for bad science, and how the modern AntiVax movement was largely built around his now-discredited Lancet paper. But I had no idea at the depths of his corrupt and unethical behavior, nor of the grotesque child abuse he engaged in to get his paper published. Nor did I quite grasp how brazen was his grift.
Losing his license isn’t enough...he should have been jailed. And that’s before we even consider the deaths he and his fellow con-man Fudenberg have caused by their quackery.
With a bonus boot to the groin for Bill Maher for amplifying these lies. “Ignorance masquerading as skepticism,” indeed.
posted by darkstar at 4:25 PM on May 26, 2021 [12 favorites]
I knew generally about how Wakefield had committed fraud, how his paper was retracted for bad science, and how the modern AntiVax movement was largely built around his now-discredited Lancet paper. But I had no idea at the depths of his corrupt and unethical behavior, nor of the grotesque child abuse he engaged in to get his paper published. Nor did I quite grasp how brazen was his grift.
Losing his license isn’t enough...he should have been jailed. And that’s before we even consider the deaths he and his fellow con-man Fudenberg have caused by their quackery.
With a bonus boot to the groin for Bill Maher for amplifying these lies. “Ignorance masquerading as skepticism,” indeed.
posted by darkstar at 4:25 PM on May 26, 2021 [12 favorites]
I watched it all, and found it both educational and hilarious. Now someone make the Foo Fighters watch it.
posted by SystematicAbuse at 4:30 PM on May 26, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by SystematicAbuse at 4:30 PM on May 26, 2021 [9 favorites]
If you were interested in another Hbomberguy video that I think is quite good, his critique of why Fallout: New Vegas is an excellent game for empowering player choice is a good class in open-ended game design. I'm going to watch this new one tonight, but I found that other video really informative and thoughtful.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 4:38 PM on May 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 4:38 PM on May 26, 2021 [5 favorites]
We haven't discovered what causes autism. It must be pretty hard for a parent, when their happy baby stops making eye contact, and there's no reason. It's natural to look for a cause, many may actually blame themselves. It's from their own body, who else could be at fault? But they've done everything right! Everything they were supposed to do, with all the love in the world. They even got all the vaccinations... come to think of it, around the same time the first behavioral symptoms arose...
I've heard this analogy, that when a melting icicle on the eaves of a house snaps off and falls with a crash, the dog within begins to bark, thinking there's an intruder outside. Without a clear cause, some agency is presumed to have caused it. Actually, it's just a process of nature that doesn't need any intervention to happen, it was always going to happen.
Understanding this, I'm not so angry at people like Jenny McCarthy. She's a grieving mother trying to understand what happened to her baby to make them change. She found a fallacious answer, perhaps one that replaces her equally fallacious guilt.
I reserve my white hot rage for the charlatans that make a career of grifting people like Jenny.
Of course, the happier path is to try to understand that autistic people can live happy lives given the right support, and that it's not so much a disease as a difference.
posted by adept256 at 5:06 PM on May 26, 2021 [7 favorites]
I've heard this analogy, that when a melting icicle on the eaves of a house snaps off and falls with a crash, the dog within begins to bark, thinking there's an intruder outside. Without a clear cause, some agency is presumed to have caused it. Actually, it's just a process of nature that doesn't need any intervention to happen, it was always going to happen.
Understanding this, I'm not so angry at people like Jenny McCarthy. She's a grieving mother trying to understand what happened to her baby to make them change. She found a fallacious answer, perhaps one that replaces her equally fallacious guilt.
I reserve my white hot rage for the charlatans that make a career of grifting people like Jenny.
Of course, the happier path is to try to understand that autistic people can live happy lives given the right support, and that it's not so much a disease as a difference.
posted by adept256 at 5:06 PM on May 26, 2021 [7 favorites]
adept256, to his credit, a whole chunk of the first part of this video Harris is making a similar point about understanding why parents react this way, and placing the blame on widespread credulous and shitty reporting.
posted by malphigian at 8:18 PM on May 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by malphigian at 8:18 PM on May 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
The thing that makes me most angry about this shit is that, amidst the accusations of people who support vaccines being shills for the pharmaceutical industry, there are actually a lot of industrial and commercial sources of pollutants that potentially contribute to the increasing prevalence of autism, which are conveniently sidelined by discussions like this. Mark my words, endocrine disruptors will be the next microplastics, and we're already decades too late. If any of these concerned parents gave a shit about autism, they'd be lobbying the government to regulate the shit out of industry and force malevolent entities like DuPont to develop new surfactants that don't make their way into our diets and subtly affect our development or fertility. The plastics industry shouldn't be allowed to run rampant, and the current doctrine for pesticide use ought to be questioned.
posted by constantinescharity at 9:07 PM on May 26, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by constantinescharity at 9:07 PM on May 26, 2021 [8 favorites]
I think I found this paper linked in a metafilter thread...
Weaponized Health Communication: Twitter Bots and Russian Trolls Amplify the Vaccine Debate
TL;DR “Russian trolls and sophisticated Twitter bots post content about vaccination at significantly higher rates than does the average user. Content from these sources gives equal attention to pro- and antivaccination arguments. This is consistent with a strategy of promoting discord across a range of controversial topics—a known tactic employed by Russian troll accounts”
Also
“Unlike troll accounts, content polluters (i.e., disseminators of malware, unsolicited commercial content, [etc]….) post antivaccine messages 75% more often than does the average nonbot Twitter user. This suggests that vaccine opponents may disseminate messages using bot networks that are primarily designed for marketing... Thus, it is unclear to what extent their promotion of vaccine-related content is driven by true antivaccine sentiment or is used as a tactic designed to drive up click-through rates by propagating motivational content (“clickbait”)”
In other words, at least some of anti-vax is astroturfed... and sometimes not even by bots and spies who'll argue with each other endlessly about proven science because they're getting paid to do so, but by AI algorithms that spread misinformation for just a few cheap clicks. Just because the divisive headlines get more eyeballs.
posted by subdee at 10:39 PM on May 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
Weaponized Health Communication: Twitter Bots and Russian Trolls Amplify the Vaccine Debate
TL;DR “Russian trolls and sophisticated Twitter bots post content about vaccination at significantly higher rates than does the average user. Content from these sources gives equal attention to pro- and antivaccination arguments. This is consistent with a strategy of promoting discord across a range of controversial topics—a known tactic employed by Russian troll accounts”
Also
“Unlike troll accounts, content polluters (i.e., disseminators of malware, unsolicited commercial content, [etc]….) post antivaccine messages 75% more often than does the average nonbot Twitter user. This suggests that vaccine opponents may disseminate messages using bot networks that are primarily designed for marketing... Thus, it is unclear to what extent their promotion of vaccine-related content is driven by true antivaccine sentiment or is used as a tactic designed to drive up click-through rates by propagating motivational content (“clickbait”)”
In other words, at least some of anti-vax is astroturfed... and sometimes not even by bots and spies who'll argue with each other endlessly about proven science because they're getting paid to do so, but by AI algorithms that spread misinformation for just a few cheap clicks. Just because the divisive headlines get more eyeballs.
posted by subdee at 10:39 PM on May 26, 2021 [4 favorites]
Of course, the happier path is to try to understand that autistic people can live happy lives given the right support, and that it's not so much a disease as a difference.
I'm Spasticus.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 11:22 PM on May 26, 2021
I'm Spasticus.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 11:22 PM on May 26, 2021
Having "debated" some antivaxxers before, it's pretty clear that most antivaxxers have a deep mistrust of the medical establishment for whatever reasons they had post hoc, and they latch on to whatever reason that sounded "reasonable" to them, i.e. truthiness, not truth, to quote Stephen Colbert, to reinforce their beliefs.
Since they cannot debate anyone on science, they feel persecuted and decided to make Andrew Wakefield their Galileo gambit offering. It fits into their paranoia, fear, and mistrust.
The video may be a bit long, but it seriously needs a part II and part III and more, as antivaxxers are backed by "celebrities" such as JFK Jr who loves throwing his own weight around support antivaxxers, and even make movies.
posted by kschang at 12:51 AM on May 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
Since they cannot debate anyone on science, they feel persecuted and decided to make Andrew Wakefield their Galileo gambit offering. It fits into their paranoia, fear, and mistrust.
The video may be a bit long, but it seriously needs a part II and part III and more, as antivaxxers are backed by "celebrities" such as JFK Jr who loves throwing his own weight around support antivaxxers, and even make movies.
posted by kschang at 12:51 AM on May 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
I've enjoyed the Hbomberguy videos in the past, but at some point his videos just became too long. For instance, this video is exactly the same length as X-Men: the Last Stand.
posted by The River Ivel at 1:49 AM on May 27, 2021
posted by The River Ivel at 1:49 AM on May 27, 2021
this video is exactly the same length as X-Men: the Last Stand
and is both more informative and more amusing! Given the budget difference I'd say that represents excellent value.
posted by flabdablet at 3:42 AM on May 27, 2021 [12 favorites]
and is both more informative and more amusing! Given the budget difference I'd say that represents excellent value.
posted by flabdablet at 3:42 AM on May 27, 2021 [12 favorites]
this video is exactly the same length as X-Men: the Last Stand
If you play the audio of one on top of the video of the other, does it sync?
posted by Cardinal Fang at 5:08 AM on May 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
If you play the audio of one on top of the video of the other, does it sync?
posted by Cardinal Fang at 5:08 AM on May 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
It's worth remembering that the original theory of the cause of autism was "Refrigerator mother theory", "a discarded theory that autism is caused by a lack of maternal warmth". I don't know exactly when this theory stopped being pushed by medical authorities, but I have sympathy for parents who sought any other explanation than their own failures as the cause of their children's conditions, especially in the time before "neurodiversity" was on the tips of our tongues.
Incidentally, according to wikipedia at any rate, the discredited Wakefield paper and the term neurodiversity both date to 1998. I guess the topic of neurodiversity was way too boring and academic to spawn dozens of evening news segments, compared to Wakefield's scam.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 5:54 AM on May 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
Incidentally, according to wikipedia at any rate, the discredited Wakefield paper and the term neurodiversity both date to 1998. I guess the topic of neurodiversity was way too boring and academic to spawn dozens of evening news segments, compared to Wakefield's scam.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 5:54 AM on May 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
I didn't know that anti-vax was invented to sell a vaccine, and paid for by a lawyer seeking a settlement payday.
I think i can use that, since most anti-vaxxers I know love to expound on the profitteering aspects of Pharma.
I feel like the for-profit nature of healthcare in the US contributes to overtreatment, and thus feeds the narrative of distrust for vaccines as well, although vaccines have to be the cheapest, most effective medicine ever invented
posted by eustatic at 7:20 AM on May 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
I think i can use that, since most anti-vaxxers I know love to expound on the profitteering aspects of Pharma.
I feel like the for-profit nature of healthcare in the US contributes to overtreatment, and thus feeds the narrative of distrust for vaccines as well, although vaccines have to be the cheapest, most effective medicine ever invented
posted by eustatic at 7:20 AM on May 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
"Refrigerator mother theory", "a discarded theory that autism is caused by a lack of maternal warmth".
See also attachment theory in relation to the behavioral disorders (where it turns out social conditions are vastly more predictive).
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:26 AM on May 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
See also attachment theory in relation to the behavioral disorders (where it turns out social conditions are vastly more predictive).
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:26 AM on May 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm not so angry at people like Jenny McCarthy. She's a grieving mother trying to understand what happened to her baby to make them change.
I did not come to MetaFilter expecting to see sympathy for Jenny McCarthy today
posted by elkevelvet at 8:07 AM on May 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
I did not come to MetaFilter expecting to see sympathy for Jenny McCarthy today
posted by elkevelvet at 8:07 AM on May 27, 2021 [2 favorites]
I really like Hbomberguy and think YouTube is better for him being there. We need more high-profile creators putting out thoughtful, evidence-based, progressive content to counter-act all of the nonsense and outrage on the platform.
I thought the beginning of this video felt a little forced -- like he knows this is a long video on a heavy topic and packed the jokes in too heavily to compensate. And I usually like his absurd, snarky, jokey style!
He backs off on the jokes as the video really gets going, though, and puts the jokes completely aside when it comes to the most traumatic parts (the child abuse). I don't think the first twenty minutes or so is a good representative of the joke/serious content ratio of the rest of the video, so if the jokes were just a liiiiiiittle too much for you in the beginning I might give it another shot.
I knew Wakefield was full of shit, but had pretty much already written him and his work off based on the shoddy methodology, so I never followed the more scandalous/should-be-criminal aspects of the story. (It seems it was bigger news in the UK?) I didn't know the full depths of the malpractice. Yiiiiiiiiiikes.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:23 AM on May 27, 2021 [5 favorites]
I thought the beginning of this video felt a little forced -- like he knows this is a long video on a heavy topic and packed the jokes in too heavily to compensate. And I usually like his absurd, snarky, jokey style!
He backs off on the jokes as the video really gets going, though, and puts the jokes completely aside when it comes to the most traumatic parts (the child abuse). I don't think the first twenty minutes or so is a good representative of the joke/serious content ratio of the rest of the video, so if the jokes were just a liiiiiiittle too much for you in the beginning I might give it another shot.
I knew Wakefield was full of shit, but had pretty much already written him and his work off based on the shoddy methodology, so I never followed the more scandalous/should-be-criminal aspects of the story. (It seems it was bigger news in the UK?) I didn't know the full depths of the malpractice. Yiiiiiiiiiikes.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:23 AM on May 27, 2021 [5 favorites]
If the youtuber format isn't your cup of tea, I think the You're Wrong About podcast episode about the anti-vaccine movement covers a lot of the same territory.
posted by Drab_Parts at 10:30 AM on May 27, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by Drab_Parts at 10:30 AM on May 27, 2021 [5 favorites]
so if the jokes were just a liiiiiiittle too much for you in the beginning I might give it another shot.
Good to know, I might try again later. I'm not very familiar with him (except the "Aquaman" bit mentioned above, which I love), but when literally the 1st minute of this almost 2 hour video was a forced series of "haha stimulating my balls! little prick! cream!" jokes extremely tangentially related to the vaccine topic I noped out hard.
posted by Roommate at 10:31 AM on May 27, 2021
Good to know, I might try again later. I'm not very familiar with him (except the "Aquaman" bit mentioned above, which I love), but when literally the 1st minute of this almost 2 hour video was a forced series of "haha stimulating my balls! little prick! cream!" jokes extremely tangentially related to the vaccine topic I noped out hard.
posted by Roommate at 10:31 AM on May 27, 2021
Also, I'll just point out... there really is a market for long videos of this type. Some of you seem baffled by it. I'm part of that market. I didn't think this was too long at all.
I usually watch videos as I'm doing something else like drawing. I'm not sitting there wishing that the content could be delivered to me faster because I have limited time or too much to watch or whatever. As long as there's enough interesting material to fill that time, then I generally feel like the longer the better. Especially if making the video (or podcast) shorter means cutting material just to trim down the run time, rather than because the material's not adding to the video.
So yeah, the whole "this video is way too long" sentiment is like ... I get it, people have different tastes. But it's really not a flaw.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:36 PM on May 27, 2021 [13 favorites]
I usually watch videos as I'm doing something else like drawing. I'm not sitting there wishing that the content could be delivered to me faster because I have limited time or too much to watch or whatever. As long as there's enough interesting material to fill that time, then I generally feel like the longer the better. Especially if making the video (or podcast) shorter means cutting material just to trim down the run time, rather than because the material's not adding to the video.
So yeah, the whole "this video is way too long" sentiment is like ... I get it, people have different tastes. But it's really not a flaw.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:36 PM on May 27, 2021 [13 favorites]
Of course, the happier path is to try to understand that autistic people can live happy lives given the right support, and that it's not so much a disease as a difference.
I'd just like to remind everybody here that there are quite a lot of autistic MeFites, and that the discourse here around autism is skating awfully close to denigration. Many of us live reasonably happy lives with no support (since there is basically NO support available anywhere for adult autistics), and I guess I should be grateful to be considered 'not so much a disease', but this is pretty darn othering.
posted by heatherlogan at 12:54 PM on May 27, 2021 [12 favorites]
I'd just like to remind everybody here that there are quite a lot of autistic MeFites, and that the discourse here around autism is skating awfully close to denigration. Many of us live reasonably happy lives with no support (since there is basically NO support available anywhere for adult autistics), and I guess I should be grateful to be considered 'not so much a disease', but this is pretty darn othering.
posted by heatherlogan at 12:54 PM on May 27, 2021 [12 favorites]
this video is exactly the same length as X-Men: the Last Stand
Possibly echoing flabdablet I . . . don't think that's quite the damning critique it seems intended to be?
posted by aspersioncast at 3:19 PM on May 27, 2021
Possibly echoing flabdablet I . . . don't think that's quite the damning critique it seems intended to be?
posted by aspersioncast at 3:19 PM on May 27, 2021
I'll echo that the intensity of the presenter's gonzo vibe in the video does die down after 15 minutes or so. I actually quit after 10 minutes after my first watch-through, but went back to give him a second chance. If you're interested in the subject matter, it's a really good review of the whole ugly Wakefield mess and its impact on the modern Anti-Vax movement.
posted by darkstar at 3:41 PM on May 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by darkstar at 3:41 PM on May 27, 2021 [1 favorite]
Well I thought that was amazing.
Yeah, so I'm one of those who is not overly charmed by HBomberGuy's humor, and the 1:44:09 running time did seem daunting, but the video hooked me right in and I thought it was the best on the subject I have ever seen. I, too, had no idea of the extent of Andrew Wakefield's despicable behavior. I knew that the Lancet had retracted the paper and that Wakefield had been stripped of his license but that's about it. I even sort of thought he was just a bit careless and felt a little sorry for him, having his career destroyed and all. I certainly don't think that way anymore.
Also, I can see this video having a real impact on the people I know in my life who are anti-vaccine, who tend to be otherwise smart and well-meaning, but 'skeptical' of big pharma and established medicine, and very susceptible to snarky humor and outrage. What can they say when it turns out the guy who started this whole anti-vax thing is himself a charlatan, a total liar who doesn't care about children or their parents at all.
And I absolutely loved the quote against Bill Maher: "that's not skepticism, that's ignorance pretending to be skepticism."
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:48 PM on May 27, 2021 [5 favorites]
Yeah, so I'm one of those who is not overly charmed by HBomberGuy's humor, and the 1:44:09 running time did seem daunting, but the video hooked me right in and I thought it was the best on the subject I have ever seen. I, too, had no idea of the extent of Andrew Wakefield's despicable behavior. I knew that the Lancet had retracted the paper and that Wakefield had been stripped of his license but that's about it. I even sort of thought he was just a bit careless and felt a little sorry for him, having his career destroyed and all. I certainly don't think that way anymore.
Also, I can see this video having a real impact on the people I know in my life who are anti-vaccine, who tend to be otherwise smart and well-meaning, but 'skeptical' of big pharma and established medicine, and very susceptible to snarky humor and outrage. What can they say when it turns out the guy who started this whole anti-vax thing is himself a charlatan, a total liar who doesn't care about children or their parents at all.
And I absolutely loved the quote against Bill Maher: "that's not skepticism, that's ignorance pretending to be skepticism."
posted by maggiemaggie at 6:48 PM on May 27, 2021 [5 favorites]
I was so ready to hate on this guy because he uses all the classic YouTuber gambits to retain your attention and keep you from tabbing away: the gurning, the visual gags, the randomness. And he is doing it to present a 2 hour long Youtube polemic, which is the classic gambit of someone who cannot win a debate without resorting to the Gish Gallop. Add his being a gamer and I was ready to hate.
And yet, well done, mate. Masterful use of this media format to slow down the decline of our civilization.
posted by ocschwar at 7:40 PM on May 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
And yet, well done, mate. Masterful use of this media format to slow down the decline of our civilization.
posted by ocschwar at 7:40 PM on May 27, 2021 [3 favorites]
Add his being a gamer and I was ready to hate.
hbomberguy, whether or not you like his shtick, is part of the founding cadre of Bread Tube/Left Tube etc and got his start in part responding to stuff like GamerGate.
2019: How a 57-hour Donkey Kong game struck a blow against online toxicity (as mentioned upthread).
If you have not heard of Brewis until now, you’re not alone. Until last weekend he was best known for his YouTube channel, which aims to provided well-sourced and reasoned responses to the arguments of the far right. (His most popular videos include “measured responses” to flat earthers, pick-up artists, advocates of the theory that soy makes men feminine and a truly absurd Swedish far-right type who goes by the name “The Golden One”.) As such, he’s part of a small but burgeoning population of online personalities whose politics serve as an antidote to the far-right views that have dominated online politics in recent years.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:22 PM on May 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
hbomberguy, whether or not you like his shtick, is part of the founding cadre of Bread Tube/Left Tube etc and got his start in part responding to stuff like GamerGate.
2019: How a 57-hour Donkey Kong game struck a blow against online toxicity (as mentioned upthread).
If you have not heard of Brewis until now, you’re not alone. Until last weekend he was best known for his YouTube channel, which aims to provided well-sourced and reasoned responses to the arguments of the far right. (His most popular videos include “measured responses” to flat earthers, pick-up artists, advocates of the theory that soy makes men feminine and a truly absurd Swedish far-right type who goes by the name “The Golden One”.) As such, he’s part of a small but burgeoning population of online personalities whose politics serve as an antidote to the far-right views that have dominated online politics in recent years.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:22 PM on May 27, 2021 [4 favorites]
I mean sure, HBomb's all those great things, but he's the guy that did this to AOC, so he's also pretty sus ;)
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 9:07 PM on May 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 9:07 PM on May 27, 2021 [8 favorites]
What can they say when it turns out the guy who started this whole anti-vax thing is himself a charlatan, a total liar who doesn't care about children or their parents at all.
In my experience they say that nevertheless Wakefield was right anyway. Which is....frustrating.
I think more of the Andrew Wakefield story is better known in the UK, certainly I would have said that he knowingly carried out bad science and treated the children in his studies unethically. I wouldn't however have thought to describe him as corrupt. And 22 years later people do psychologically struggle with the MMR vaccine and feel that giving the components separately would be safer - even when they're comfortable with a much tinier baby having a 6-in-1 vaccine. That's without specifically knowing about Wakefield.
Vaccination, clean drinking water and sanitation are the three essentials that make the modern world.
posted by plonkee at 10:36 AM on May 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
In my experience they say that nevertheless Wakefield was right anyway. Which is....frustrating.
I think more of the Andrew Wakefield story is better known in the UK, certainly I would have said that he knowingly carried out bad science and treated the children in his studies unethically. I wouldn't however have thought to describe him as corrupt. And 22 years later people do psychologically struggle with the MMR vaccine and feel that giving the components separately would be safer - even when they're comfortable with a much tinier baby having a 6-in-1 vaccine. That's without specifically knowing about Wakefield.
Vaccination, clean drinking water and sanitation are the three essentials that make the modern world.
posted by plonkee at 10:36 AM on May 28, 2021 [1 favorite]
In my experience they say that nevertheless Wakefield was right anyway. Which is....frustrating.
One of the best things the video does, I think, is spend a lot of time on how Wakefield's study is bogus on the face of it, and how Wakefield consistently mentioned during interviews that instead of the combined MMR, parents should instead buy the individual vaccines - one of which he held a patent on - in conjunction with a known quack who thought his bone marrow cured autism. As a doctor, he never actually claimed vaccines as a class caused autism. It was all a grift to sell his own vaccines.
And then it goes into the history that most people are more familiar with, if only vaguely.
posted by Merus at 12:12 AM on May 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
One of the best things the video does, I think, is spend a lot of time on how Wakefield's study is bogus on the face of it, and how Wakefield consistently mentioned during interviews that instead of the combined MMR, parents should instead buy the individual vaccines - one of which he held a patent on - in conjunction with a known quack who thought his bone marrow cured autism. As a doctor, he never actually claimed vaccines as a class caused autism. It was all a grift to sell his own vaccines.
And then it goes into the history that most people are more familiar with, if only vaguely.
posted by Merus at 12:12 AM on May 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
"celebrities" such as JFK Jr
ITYM RFK Jr.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 3:14 PM on May 31, 2021 [1 favorite]
ITYM RFK Jr.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 3:14 PM on May 31, 2021 [1 favorite]
« Older There is nothing I like to draw more. | What’s Worse Than Climate Catastrophe? Climate... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
With regard to "the straw man", Andrew Wakefield is thoroughly discredited. But a lot of folks (especially younger folks that are Harris's age or younger) were too young to be world-aware when this initially went down.
People are rightly skeptical of moneyed interests when it comes to medicine and pharmaceuticals, but they don't realize that the anti-vax movement's head cheerleader was himself a fraud who was in it only for the money.
posted by explosion at 2:06 PM on May 26, 2021 [32 favorites]