Goonies never say die.
July 6, 2021 4:35 AM Subscribe
Richard Donner, prolific director of Superman, the Lethal Weapon series, and The Goonies (and many, many more) has passed away at the age of 91.
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posted by lalochezia at 5:11 AM on July 6, 2021
posted by lalochezia at 5:11 AM on July 6, 2021
Two of the more interesting facts I learned from the AV Club obit:
One of his first films was a 1961 NASA drama starring Charles Bronson and Mary Tyler Moore (?!?!)
His approach to the first Superman film: "The most important thing when you look at it is this: Make a love story. And prove a man can fly."
A job damn well done, sir. RIP.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 5:28 AM on July 6, 2021 [14 favorites]
One of his first films was a 1961 NASA drama starring Charles Bronson and Mary Tyler Moore (?!?!)
His approach to the first Superman film: "The most important thing when you look at it is this: Make a love story. And prove a man can fly."
A job damn well done, sir. RIP.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 5:28 AM on July 6, 2021 [14 favorites]
Superman is still such an amazing film. I don't think that Donner gets enough credit for essentially inventing the blockbuster superhero film. Some of the effects are a little creaky by now but the direction, production design, score and especially casting is just perfect. The "You've got me? Who's got you?" sequence never fails to get me every time. Reeve plays that role (really two roles) so perfectly.
posted by octothorpe at 5:46 AM on July 6, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 5:46 AM on July 6, 2021 [19 favorites]
A massive loss. Superman in particular is writ large in my imagination. [Previously]
posted by 0bvious at 5:59 AM on July 6, 2021
posted by 0bvious at 5:59 AM on July 6, 2021
Iconic.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:04 AM on July 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:04 AM on July 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
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I have mixed feelings about Superman. On the one hand, Christopher Reeve is the best actor to ever embody the role. Never mind believing that a man can fly; Reeve used his body language alone to convince me that Clark Kent and Superman are two completely different people, and Donner trusted him enough to just let him do it all on camera. Pure acting. But on the other hand, Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor is a bumbling joke without a shred of menace, who would have made a better adversary for Adam West's Batman.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:38 AM on July 6, 2021 [12 favorites]
I have mixed feelings about Superman. On the one hand, Christopher Reeve is the best actor to ever embody the role. Never mind believing that a man can fly; Reeve used his body language alone to convince me that Clark Kent and Superman are two completely different people, and Donner trusted him enough to just let him do it all on camera. Pure acting. But on the other hand, Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor is a bumbling joke without a shred of menace, who would have made a better adversary for Adam West's Batman.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:38 AM on July 6, 2021 [12 favorites]
Nitpick: Lost Boys is a Joel Schumacher joint—Mr Donner was slated to direct but decided (wisely, let's be honest here) to do Lethal Weapon instead
posted by drysides at 6:43 AM on July 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by drysides at 6:43 AM on July 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
Just recently I went down a rabbit hole and discovered a Richard Donner movie called Inside Moves. It stars John Savage, David Morse, and Diana Scarwid. It’s a movie of its time, released in 1980 about a partially crippled man making friends in a local neighborhood bar.
It’s an odd movie, and dated in countless ways, but that’s part of its charm. It should be a sad and depressing movie—the main character walks with a limp from a failed suicide attempt—but it’s actually very uplifting. And memorable; I watched it about six months ago and still think of it pretty often.
The amazing thing is that Donner made this movie after Superman I and II. He went from this big budget blockbuster to something small and intimate…nary a special effect in the whole of Inside Moves. It bombed at the box office. The distributors fucked up the release at the time and hardly anyone saw it until it was released on video many years later. Anyway, check it out on a lazy Sunday sometime, it’s worth watching. Fun fact: Diana Scarwid got a Best Supporting Actress nomination for this, and when you see the scene that earned her that you’ll see why.
posted by zardoz at 6:44 AM on July 6, 2021 [10 favorites]
It’s an odd movie, and dated in countless ways, but that’s part of its charm. It should be a sad and depressing movie—the main character walks with a limp from a failed suicide attempt—but it’s actually very uplifting. And memorable; I watched it about six months ago and still think of it pretty often.
The amazing thing is that Donner made this movie after Superman I and II. He went from this big budget blockbuster to something small and intimate…nary a special effect in the whole of Inside Moves. It bombed at the box office. The distributors fucked up the release at the time and hardly anyone saw it until it was released on video many years later. Anyway, check it out on a lazy Sunday sometime, it’s worth watching. Fun fact: Diana Scarwid got a Best Supporting Actress nomination for this, and when you see the scene that earned her that you’ll see why.
posted by zardoz at 6:44 AM on July 6, 2021 [10 favorites]
Here's a wonderful thread of some of the impressive filming techniques from Superman
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posted by gwint at 6:45 AM on July 6, 2021
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posted by gwint at 6:45 AM on July 6, 2021
Nitpick: Lost Boys is a Joel Schumacher joint—Mr Donner was slated to direct but decided (wisely, let's be honest here) to do Lethal Weapon instead
This is what you call a win-win situation
posted by chavenet at 6:45 AM on July 6, 2021
This is what you call a win-win situation
posted by chavenet at 6:45 AM on July 6, 2021
I don't think that Donner gets enough credit for essentially inventing the blockbuster superhero film.
True: Donner’s approach to grounding superheroes in something like the real world (and the unforced charisma of Christopher Reeve) are two of the things that have cast a long shadow from that movie. Unfortunately, the “let’s devote a third of the movie to an origin story” and the sequel’s approach of “let’s have our hero fight a bad guy who has exactly the same powers” also echoes down the ages with... less felicitous results.
Oddly, Donner’s last connection with a superhero movie was a credit as executive producer on X-Men Origins: Wolverine, a movie that really leans into the latter two items.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:49 AM on July 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
True: Donner’s approach to grounding superheroes in something like the real world (and the unforced charisma of Christopher Reeve) are two of the things that have cast a long shadow from that movie. Unfortunately, the “let’s devote a third of the movie to an origin story” and the sequel’s approach of “let’s have our hero fight a bad guy who has exactly the same powers” also echoes down the ages with... less felicitous results.
Oddly, Donner’s last connection with a superhero movie was a credit as executive producer on X-Men Origins: Wolverine, a movie that really leans into the latter two items.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:49 AM on July 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
You can just watch Superman Returns or Man of Steel to see the ways that a Superman film can go terribly wrong.
posted by octothorpe at 7:28 AM on July 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 7:28 AM on July 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
Donner's 1978 Superman is one of the top 5 spandex movies of all time, and will remain so for at least the next 100 years, as seminal in its genre as 2001 or Star Wars are in scifi, and I'd say nearly as important to the industry in terms of the shift towards blockbusters (Wikipedia: "the most expensive film made up to that point.") I just don't see how anyone can debate that. But ok, if you wanna...
But on the other hand, Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor is a bumbling joke without a shred of menace, who would have made a better adversary for Adam West's Batman.
What? Ned Beatty is the bumbling joke, and he's hilarious. I suspect you've been spoiled by post-Frank Miller grimdarkness. And Valerie Perrine's arc as Luthor's ditzy galpal is brief but integral to the plot; she saves Superman - and, you know, the world.
Anyway, young teen me absolutely *loved* Donner's portrayal of the bumbling nature of villainy when I saw it in the theater; it was *such* a great lesson in the idiocy of evil. I'll have more, probably, but will for now leave it at this:
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posted by mediareport at 8:03 AM on July 6, 2021 [16 favorites]
But on the other hand, Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor is a bumbling joke without a shred of menace, who would have made a better adversary for Adam West's Batman.
What? Ned Beatty is the bumbling joke, and he's hilarious. I suspect you've been spoiled by post-Frank Miller grimdarkness. And Valerie Perrine's arc as Luthor's ditzy galpal is brief but integral to the plot; she saves Superman - and, you know, the world.
Anyway, young teen me absolutely *loved* Donner's portrayal of the bumbling nature of villainy when I saw it in the theater; it was *such* a great lesson in the idiocy of evil. I'll have more, probably, but will for now leave it at this:
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posted by mediareport at 8:03 AM on July 6, 2021 [16 favorites]
Whenever anyone says "Thank you" to me, I think "Don't thank me, we're all part of the same team"
Sometimes I actually say it, which usually end up confusing them.
posted by Gorgik at 8:15 AM on July 6, 2021 [6 favorites]
Sometimes I actually say it, which usually end up confusing them.
posted by Gorgik at 8:15 AM on July 6, 2021 [6 favorites]
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posted by Joey Michaels at 8:25 AM on July 6, 2021
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:25 AM on July 6, 2021
One part of Superman that really affected me as a child is when Lois dies and Superman holds vigil over her body. Donner's shots of Superman from different angles and differences are very... I can't think of the word I want, but it was a lot for a kid my age. Kind of creepy in a good way? It conveyed his feeling for Lois.
There are so many iconic moments in the movie, but that part is one I think about more these days as I remember seeing Superman when i was a little kid.
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posted by Fukiyama at 8:34 AM on July 6, 2021 [2 favorites]
There are so many iconic moments in the movie, but that part is one I think about more these days as I remember seeing Superman when i was a little kid.
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posted by Fukiyama at 8:34 AM on July 6, 2021 [2 favorites]
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posted by Mutant Lobsters from Riverhead at 8:57 AM on July 6, 2021
posted by Mutant Lobsters from Riverhead at 8:57 AM on July 6, 2021
I still consider The Goonies underground scenes one of the coolest places ever. To visit and slide would be top of the bucket list.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:32 AM on July 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:32 AM on July 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
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posted by mstokes650 at 10:07 AM on July 6, 2021
posted by mstokes650 at 10:07 AM on July 6, 2021
zardoz, I adored Inside Moves. I saw it multiple times in a theatre, which wasn't easy to do since as you note, it bombed in the theatre. But it played longer in Seattle, I think, and I was this suicidally depressed college student without much of a friends network and so watching John Savage's recovery and efforts to build a life really resonated with me. For me, that movie was Donner's best achievement, even if it's a product of its time and even as much as I loved Superman.
Ninety-one is a great long life, and he sure left behind a fantastic legacy.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 10:41 AM on July 6, 2021 [6 favorites]
Ninety-one is a great long life, and he sure left behind a fantastic legacy.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 10:41 AM on July 6, 2021 [6 favorites]
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Superman, The Goonies, Ladyhawke, Lethal Weapon - these are all some of my favorite movies.
The man was a giant.
posted by djeo at 10:53 AM on July 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
Superman, The Goonies, Ladyhawke, Lethal Weapon - these are all some of my favorite movies.
The man was a giant.
posted by djeo at 10:53 AM on July 6, 2021 [1 favorite]
Produced and directed Scrooged, my all-time favorite Christmas movie.
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posted by hanov3r at 11:48 AM on July 6, 2021 [6 favorites]
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posted by hanov3r at 11:48 AM on July 6, 2021 [6 favorites]
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Nightmare at 20,000 Feet (Twilight Zone the original B&W series). That surprised me.
posted by Zedcaster at 2:22 PM on July 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
Nightmare at 20,000 Feet (Twilight Zone the original B&W series). That surprised me.
posted by Zedcaster at 2:22 PM on July 6, 2021 [3 favorites]
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posted by Token Meme at 2:23 PM on July 6, 2021
posted by Token Meme at 2:23 PM on July 6, 2021
I just heard the anecdote about Gene Hackman's mustache recently. What an epic move.
I saw Superman three times in the theater. I remember suffering an hour through Marlon Brando and Kansas, FINALLY seeing Clark Kent approach a phone booth, but ... epic fake out.
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posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:53 PM on July 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
I saw Superman three times in the theater. I remember suffering an hour through Marlon Brando and Kansas, FINALLY seeing Clark Kent approach a phone booth, but ... epic fake out.
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posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:53 PM on July 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
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posted by dannyboybell at 3:34 PM on July 6, 2021
posted by dannyboybell at 3:34 PM on July 6, 2021
Oops, apologies. The Lost Boys is indeed Joel Schumacher. (How did I get that one wrong?). Mods if you're so inclined, could you delete that film from the title?
posted by zardoz at 4:24 PM on July 6, 2021
posted by zardoz at 4:24 PM on July 6, 2021
Mod note: I told those boys to get lost, carry on.
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:34 PM on July 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:34 PM on July 6, 2021 [5 favorites]
I've oddly spent much of my day listening to UK post-rock band Goonies Never Say Die prior to hearing this news. RIP Richard Donner! Superman and Goonies were both indelible parts of my childhood.
posted by Shepherd at 5:04 PM on July 6, 2021
posted by Shepherd at 5:04 PM on July 6, 2021
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posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 5:08 PM on July 6, 2021
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 5:08 PM on July 6, 2021
The amazing thing is that Donner made this movie after Superman I and II. He went from this big budget blockbuster to something small and intimate…nary a special effect in the whole of Inside Moves.
Just found this explanation on Film School Rejects:
Just found this explanation on Film School Rejects:
Following the falling out and his eventual firing from Superman II, Donner chose a smaller movie (Inside Moves) in order to take his mind off the experience.posted by cheshyre at 7:18 PM on July 6, 2021
But on the other hand, Gene Hackman's Lex Luthor is a bumbling joke without a shred of menace, who would have made a better adversary for Adam West's Batman.
Personally, I am a fan of old school camp superheroes and villains, however Donner was definitely aimeing for an overall earnest tone in Superman.
"Critics of [Richard] Lester's Superman II, including Donner, have stated that Lester's penchant for comedy undermined the integrity of the film, especially when compared to Donner's Superman."
- via Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut
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posted by fairmettle at 9:00 PM on July 6, 2021
Personally, I am a fan of old school camp superheroes and villains, however Donner was definitely aimeing for an overall earnest tone in Superman.
"Critics of [Richard] Lester's Superman II, including Donner, have stated that Lester's penchant for comedy undermined the integrity of the film, especially when compared to Donner's Superman."
- via Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut
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posted by fairmettle at 9:00 PM on July 6, 2021
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posted by SageLeVoid at 12:21 AM on July 7, 2021
posted by SageLeVoid at 12:21 AM on July 7, 2021
The thing about Superman is that it showed the essential wonder of being a superhuman in a mundane world, in a way that none of the superhero movies and TV shows that came before it had, and in a way that very few that came after it have really tried to.
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posted by Halloween Jack at 5:19 AM on July 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
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posted by Halloween Jack at 5:19 AM on July 7, 2021 [2 favorites]
While I get where the criticism of Havkman’s Lex Luthor comes from, you have to remember the position comics held in the larger culture. They simply were not highly regarded or treated as a an art form worth serious consideration. That is part of what makes Donner’s Superman so revolutionary — it treated the source material with respect. While Hackman probably is too campy, his performance is about the limit of what audiences would expect and therefore accept at that time.
I feel similarly about Jack Nicholson’s portrayal of The Joker in the 1989 Batman.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 10:10 AM on July 7, 2021 [4 favorites]
I feel similarly about Jack Nicholson’s portrayal of The Joker in the 1989 Batman.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 10:10 AM on July 7, 2021 [4 favorites]
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