Maybe he took a wrong turn at the crossroads?
November 14, 2021 10:30 AM Subscribe
What happened to Eric Clapton? The guitar legend has long been inscrutable, but his covid turn has friends and fans puzzled like never before. (Archive link)
Robert Cray was stunned when he first heard “Stand and Deliver.” Eric Clapton, his onetime musical hero, who became a mentor and friend, had released his first protest song in 56 years of recording. Only it wasn’t about George Floyd or global warming. Clapton’s midtempo shuffle, a collaboration with Van Morrison released in December, went full anti-lockdown, taking aim at the government for trying to control a global pandemic by temporarily shuttering restaurants, gyms and concert halls.
What grabbed Cray’s attention was the second verse.
----
Though Clapton studied the music of the blues, he seems to have not read up on what drove the work of many of his heroes. In a 1999 interview on “60 Minutes” with Ed Bradley, Clapton talks of what it was like to hear the blues on the radio as a teenager in Ripley, a White, working-class town north of London.
“To me, it sounded like they were in a fantasy land,” Clapton said. “For you, perhaps, Ed, the plantation and the cotton fields would have been places of abject misery and hardship. For me, it was paradise. I couldn’t think of anything I’d rather be doing than picking cotton and hearing that music all around me.”
Robert Cray was stunned when he first heard “Stand and Deliver.” Eric Clapton, his onetime musical hero, who became a mentor and friend, had released his first protest song in 56 years of recording. Only it wasn’t about George Floyd or global warming. Clapton’s midtempo shuffle, a collaboration with Van Morrison released in December, went full anti-lockdown, taking aim at the government for trying to control a global pandemic by temporarily shuttering restaurants, gyms and concert halls.
What grabbed Cray’s attention was the second verse.
Do you wanna be a free manCray — one of the great blues guitarists of his generation, a five-time Grammy winner and Black man born in segregated Georgia — emailed Clapton immediately. Was the 76-year-old guitar great comfortable singing Morrison’s words, which compared the lockdown to slavery?
Or do you wanna be a slave?
Do you wanna be a free man
Or do you wanna be a slave?
Do you wanna wear these chains
Until you’re lying in the grave?
----
Though Clapton studied the music of the blues, he seems to have not read up on what drove the work of many of his heroes. In a 1999 interview on “60 Minutes” with Ed Bradley, Clapton talks of what it was like to hear the blues on the radio as a teenager in Ripley, a White, working-class town north of London.
“To me, it sounded like they were in a fantasy land,” Clapton said. “For you, perhaps, Ed, the plantation and the cotton fields would have been places of abject misery and hardship. For me, it was paradise. I couldn’t think of anything I’d rather be doing than picking cotton and hearing that music all around me.”
@jkass99
"For 56 years Eric Clapton remained silent about politics"*posted by Space Coyote at 10:39 AM on November 14, 2021 [189 favorites]
* assuming you ignore that time he took to the stage to encourage a white ethnostate while dropping a mad amount of slurs.
Whatever happened to him, it happened before 1976. Snopes: "At a concert in 1976, Eric Clapton went on a racist rant, using deeply offensive racial slurs and calling for the deportation of non-whites from Britain."
He's a good blues-rock guitar player, and an utter jackass. I thought this was widely known.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 10:45 AM on November 14, 2021 [129 favorites]
He's a good blues-rock guitar player, and an utter jackass. I thought this was widely known.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 10:45 AM on November 14, 2021 [129 favorites]
Cream was not bad, but ever since Cocaine I've thought he was an asshole and mediocre musician. This is just another nail in the coffin. There are so many better guitarists....
I need to put on some David Byrne and wash this foul taste out!
posted by phliar at 10:51 AM on November 14, 2021 [17 favorites]
I need to put on some David Byrne and wash this foul taste out!
posted by phliar at 10:51 AM on November 14, 2021 [17 favorites]
The stuff with Pattie Boyd, the racist ranting, profiting off the death of his child, when was Clapton NOT terrible???
posted by rikschell at 11:12 AM on November 14, 2021 [49 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 11:12 AM on November 14, 2021 [49 favorites]
how could a man go from publicly endorsing Enoch Powell in 1976 to whatever the heck he's doing now. it is an unknowable mystery
posted by BungaDunga at 11:14 AM on November 14, 2021 [91 favorites]
posted by BungaDunga at 11:14 AM on November 14, 2021 [91 favorites]
If your 4-year-old son fell out the window of your Manhattan skyscraper apartment, you might be a little bonkers, too. Not defending him; he lost me at "I Shot the Sheriff."
posted by Rash at 11:28 AM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Rash at 11:28 AM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Nthing that Clapton has always been bad politically and mostly musically as well. Also his 90s MTV Unplugged comeback was about the weakest, whitest pile of pablum the decade had to offer, which is really saying something.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:32 AM on November 14, 2021 [16 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 11:32 AM on November 14, 2021 [16 favorites]
Maybe I'm missing the joke, but "I Shot The Sheriff" is a Bob Marley tune.
I think it's good to remember, as I've said about Clapton here before, that artistic gifts (whether you believe he has them or not) don't necessarily imply intellectual gifts.
Unlike your garden variety Ted Cruzes and Rick DeSantises - smart guys pretending to be dumb as shit - Clapton really is dumb as shit, and a lot of dumb shit flows from that, as you'd expect.
posted by klanawa at 11:45 AM on November 14, 2021 [19 favorites]
I think it's good to remember, as I've said about Clapton here before, that artistic gifts (whether you believe he has them or not) don't necessarily imply intellectual gifts.
Unlike your garden variety Ted Cruzes and Rick DeSantises - smart guys pretending to be dumb as shit - Clapton really is dumb as shit, and a lot of dumb shit flows from that, as you'd expect.
posted by klanawa at 11:45 AM on November 14, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 11:32 AM on November 14
The return of rank eponystery...
posted by y2karl at 11:47 AM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
The return of rank eponystery...
posted by y2karl at 11:47 AM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
I hadn't been keeping tabs on Van Morrison. Every day, things get more like Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
posted by brachiopod at 11:47 AM on November 14, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by brachiopod at 11:47 AM on November 14, 2021 [12 favorites]
I was not aware it was not widely known that Eric Clapton has had consistently terrible politics for decades.
posted by jscalzi at 11:51 AM on November 14, 2021 [61 favorites]
posted by jscalzi at 11:51 AM on November 14, 2021 [61 favorites]
The stuff with Pattie Boyd, the racist ranting, profiting off the death of his child, when was Clapton NOT terrible???
Artistically? His solo on “”Hideaway” when he was with Jon Mayall’s Bluesbreakers is perfect. “Layla” is pretty good but overplayed now.
Personally? Every time he has ever spoken for fifty-plus years, his comments have ranged from the anodyne to tedious shitnoodle ideology. So it goes.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:00 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Artistically? His solo on “”Hideaway” when he was with Jon Mayall’s Bluesbreakers is perfect. “Layla” is pretty good but overplayed now.
Personally? Every time he has ever spoken for fifty-plus years, his comments have ranged from the anodyne to tedious shitnoodle ideology. So it goes.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:00 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Anyone who has to put up with Ginger Baker for more than a few minutes is not gonna come out kind and happy with the world
posted by armoir from antproof case at 12:02 PM on November 14, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by armoir from antproof case at 12:02 PM on November 14, 2021 [9 favorites]
Maybe I'm missing the joke, but "I Shot The Sheriff" is a Bob Marley tune.
Marley wrote it but Clapton had a hit with it. He also had huge hits with After Midnight and Cocaine, which people also call Clapton songs, but which were both written, and performed much better, by JJ Cale.
Clapton is a dick, plain and simple. Always was, always will be.
The only good thing I ever heard about him -- and I don't know that it's true -- is that someone once asked him, "What's it like being the best guitar player ever?" and he answered, "You'd have to ask Prince." With the exception of that remark (if he even said it), I can do without his entire output.
posted by dobbs at 12:03 PM on November 14, 2021 [31 favorites]
Marley wrote it but Clapton had a hit with it. He also had huge hits with After Midnight and Cocaine, which people also call Clapton songs, but which were both written, and performed much better, by JJ Cale.
Clapton is a dick, plain and simple. Always was, always will be.
The only good thing I ever heard about him -- and I don't know that it's true -- is that someone once asked him, "What's it like being the best guitar player ever?" and he answered, "You'd have to ask Prince." With the exception of that remark (if he even said it), I can do without his entire output.
posted by dobbs at 12:03 PM on November 14, 2021 [31 favorites]
The only good thing I ever heard about him -- and I don't know that it's true
sNopes.
posted by Buntix at 12:14 PM on November 14, 2021 [25 favorites]
sNopes.
posted by Buntix at 12:14 PM on November 14, 2021 [25 favorites]
Well, Clapton's Had Issues for decades, but I assume the anti-vax stuff came from the terrible reaction he had to the vaccines. To be fair, anyone would lose their shit if they thought they could never use their hands again for a few weeks, so I can kinda figure out where he got it from. But that said, I only have so much sympathy and he's clearly being an asshole these days.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:17 PM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:17 PM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
profiting off the death of his child
Do you mean because he wrote a song and it made money? If there's not something else, this doesn't belong on this list. Artists create out of their lives, sometimes out of misery, sometimes out of horrible things that happened to other people (see Neil Young's Ohio). If enough people are moved by their work, they make money from it, as they should.
posted by FencingGal at 12:19 PM on November 14, 2021 [34 favorites]
Do you mean because he wrote a song and it made money? If there's not something else, this doesn't belong on this list. Artists create out of their lives, sometimes out of misery, sometimes out of horrible things that happened to other people (see Neil Young's Ohio). If enough people are moved by their work, they make money from it, as they should.
posted by FencingGal at 12:19 PM on November 14, 2021 [34 favorites]
The only good thing I ever heard about him
Well, there are a fair number of examples in TFA that demonstrate individual acts of love and generosity on Clapton's part, including to black people. What he seems to be entirely incapable of is connecting his love and appreciation for individuals and their art, to the circumstances from which they come, the struggles their people have endured and the the role those struggles play in inspiring and shaping that art. Art upon which his entire career is built.
profiting off the death of his child
But yeah, this is a bullshit take. The art Clapton appropriates the art of struggle, but the living a struggling people makes off its own art is 100% legitimate. When a man deals with tragedy -- and what tragedy is deeper than losing a child? -- he does it through his art. When his art is also his living, he profits by it. This criticism is deeply unfair.
posted by klanawa at 12:32 PM on November 14, 2021 [14 favorites]
Well, there are a fair number of examples in TFA that demonstrate individual acts of love and generosity on Clapton's part, including to black people. What he seems to be entirely incapable of is connecting his love and appreciation for individuals and their art, to the circumstances from which they come, the struggles their people have endured and the the role those struggles play in inspiring and shaping that art. Art upon which his entire career is built.
profiting off the death of his child
But yeah, this is a bullshit take. The art Clapton appropriates the art of struggle, but the living a struggling people makes off its own art is 100% legitimate. When a man deals with tragedy -- and what tragedy is deeper than losing a child? -- he does it through his art. When his art is also his living, he profits by it. This criticism is deeply unfair.
posted by klanawa at 12:32 PM on November 14, 2021 [14 favorites]
Yeah, far be it from me to tell anyone how to memorialize their own dead child. I wouldn't voluntarily listen to "Tears in Heaven," because it's extremely not my thing, but I'm not going to criticize him for it. But yeah, he's an asshole, he's been a right-wing asshole for as long as I've been conscious of such things, and I'm not sure that it requires any deep analysis.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:32 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:32 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
See also: Rolling Stone's "Eric Clapton Isn't Just Spouting Vaccine Nonsense—He's Bankrolling It" from last month.
posted by scruss at 12:33 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by scruss at 12:33 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
It's bad that Clapton made a career from copying music invented by Black people, and then uses that career to push this product, but it's not much different from right-wingers wearing yellow Stars of David to protest vaccination at town halls or council meetings. I mean, you have to be a real asshole to equate vaccination with enslavement, but you'd have to be as much of a genuine asshole to equate it with the Holocaust.
At the root of this are a bunch of entitled assholes. The cause of that, in turn, is those assholes not having to face consequences for their behavior. Maybe public shaming is the only way to fight back, but those assholes shout about being cancelled, and so on. It's terrible how these assholes own the narrative.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:51 PM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
At the root of this are a bunch of entitled assholes. The cause of that, in turn, is those assholes not having to face consequences for their behavior. Maybe public shaming is the only way to fight back, but those assholes shout about being cancelled, and so on. It's terrible how these assholes own the narrative.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:51 PM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
You don't have to be an asshole to equate vaccination with enslavement ... you have to be paranoid or stupid enough to believe the vaccine is much riskier than advertised and COVID much less risky than advertised. Treating paranoia and stupidity as assholery is a bad category error that is leading to some very bad public health results.
posted by MattD at 12:57 PM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by MattD at 12:57 PM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
I hadn't been keeping tabs on Van Morrison.
Here you are. (Guardian link)
posted by Kiwi at 1:08 PM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
Here you are. (Guardian link)
posted by Kiwi at 1:08 PM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
Yeah, don't forget that Van Morrison has also been a notably horrible asshole for... Checks watch... 55 years or so, by most accounts.
I mean, ok, so he didn't publicly endorse Enoch Powell to my knowledge, but probably only because the only person he's 100% certain actually exists is Van Morrison.
posted by SystematicAbuse at 1:15 PM on November 14, 2021 [13 favorites]
I mean, ok, so he didn't publicly endorse Enoch Powell to my knowledge, but probably only because the only person he's 100% certain actually exists is Van Morrison.
posted by SystematicAbuse at 1:15 PM on November 14, 2021 [13 favorites]
Some of Cray's Smoking Gun almost seem to describe his feelings about Clapton:
Maybe you want to end it
You've had your fill of my kind of fun
But you don't know how to tell me
And you know that I'm not that dumb
I put 2 and 1 together
And you know that's not an even sum
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:24 PM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
Maybe you want to end it
You've had your fill of my kind of fun
But you don't know how to tell me
And you know that I'm not that dumb
I put 2 and 1 together
And you know that's not an even sum
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:24 PM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
I think this whole thing is a reaction to his takedown by Phoebe Bridgers a few years back:
"I have such an Eric Clapton rant, because I think it's just extremely mediocre music, but also he's a famous racist."
posted by signal at 1:28 PM on November 14, 2021 [17 favorites]
"I have such an Eric Clapton rant, because I think it's just extremely mediocre music, but also he's a famous racist."
posted by signal at 1:28 PM on November 14, 2021 [17 favorites]
If your 4-year-old son fell out the window of your Manhattan skyscraper apartment, you might be a little bonkers, too.
Lots of us have lost people that we love way too early, and I don't see anyone else getting chits for encouraging others in behavior that will get them killed.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:46 PM on November 14, 2021 [20 favorites]
Lots of us have lost people that we love way too early, and I don't see anyone else getting chits for encouraging others in behavior that will get them killed.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:46 PM on November 14, 2021 [20 favorites]
Clapton is one of those artists I was just never really into, so it doesn't break my heart when he reveals himself as a total shithole. Same with Van Morrison. (And Dave Chappelle.) I'd be content to just file them under "toxic fuckwads" in my mind and never think about them again. But damn, my heart goes out to their longtime fans. It sucks to get JK Rowling'ed.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 1:47 PM on November 14, 2021 [21 favorites]
posted by Ursula Hitler at 1:47 PM on November 14, 2021 [21 favorites]
+1 for the title header .... but may be this is just Ol' Stratch calling in his marker
posted by mbo at 1:51 PM on November 14, 2021
posted by mbo at 1:51 PM on November 14, 2021
If it were just writing the song, fair enough. Maybe you don't remember the ghoulish PR campaign to promote "Tears in Heaven," but I do.
posted by rikschell at 1:56 PM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 1:56 PM on November 14, 2021 [6 favorites]
he lost me at "I Shot the Sheriff."
he lost me musically whenever it was that heroin got the better of him. Sometime in the very early 1970s (ie: fifty years ago). Layla would've been the last album of his that matters to me in any way, and it was itself a heroin album. But as the story goes, it hadn't become his master yet. But that came soon. Since then, I haven't heard anything from the guy that I consider remotely essential. He's had hits, of course, and controversies. But over all, I just don't get why he's still even in the discussion.
I do think Concert For George was worthy event. George Harrison's songbook given proper honour in the wake of his recent death. Clapton was the music director and there are some amazing moments in there.
posted by philip-random at 2:10 PM on November 14, 2021 [9 favorites]
he lost me musically whenever it was that heroin got the better of him. Sometime in the very early 1970s (ie: fifty years ago). Layla would've been the last album of his that matters to me in any way, and it was itself a heroin album. But as the story goes, it hadn't become his master yet. But that came soon. Since then, I haven't heard anything from the guy that I consider remotely essential. He's had hits, of course, and controversies. But over all, I just don't get why he's still even in the discussion.
I do think Concert For George was worthy event. George Harrison's songbook given proper honour in the wake of his recent death. Clapton was the music director and there are some amazing moments in there.
posted by philip-random at 2:10 PM on November 14, 2021 [9 favorites]
Boomer Culture: never not relevant!
posted by badbobbycase at 2:23 PM on November 14, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by badbobbycase at 2:23 PM on November 14, 2021 [12 favorites]
We were Meta before Meta was Meta was Meta
posted by y2karl at 2:27 PM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 2:27 PM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
But damn, my heart goes out to their longtime fans. It sucks to get JK Rowling'ed.
This is a sentiment for which I truly believe a greeting card should exist. “Thinking of you during this difficult time. It’s never easy to learn that a beloved artist is a human egg-fart.”
I grew up on these two artists (it’s probably inevitable when your dad’s the bassist in the town’s go-to classic-rock cover band). I’ve known for a long time now what a turd Clapton is, but Van Morrison…well, no real surprise, but it smarts.
Probably time for me to do what I’ve been smarmily prescribing to Elvis fans and Led Zeppelin fans for ages, to wit: study up on the underrated Black artists whose brilliance these guys ripped off, watered down, and sold to other white guys.
(And keep listening to new music, by artists who don’t necessarily look like my relatives. May I never become that white person, who insists without irony that “they stopped making good music” at exactly the moment I ceased to be a teenager.)
posted by armeowda at 2:33 PM on November 14, 2021 [32 favorites]
This is a sentiment for which I truly believe a greeting card should exist. “Thinking of you during this difficult time. It’s never easy to learn that a beloved artist is a human egg-fart.”
I grew up on these two artists (it’s probably inevitable when your dad’s the bassist in the town’s go-to classic-rock cover band). I’ve known for a long time now what a turd Clapton is, but Van Morrison…well, no real surprise, but it smarts.
Probably time for me to do what I’ve been smarmily prescribing to Elvis fans and Led Zeppelin fans for ages, to wit: study up on the underrated Black artists whose brilliance these guys ripped off, watered down, and sold to other white guys.
(And keep listening to new music, by artists who don’t necessarily look like my relatives. May I never become that white person, who insists without irony that “they stopped making good music” at exactly the moment I ceased to be a teenager.)
posted by armeowda at 2:33 PM on November 14, 2021 [32 favorites]
That is pretty shitty and more than tone deaf on Clapton’s part but I was aware that he was an asshole. Morrison - I didn’t know he was shit, but I knew he was a fool. My wife and I saw him play in Dublin opening for James Brown. Bo Diddley started the show and he was a pro like you’d expect. Morrison had an ok show. No real connection to the audience but whatevz. He announces the end of his set and I detected the opening of “This is A Man’s World…” (that’s a challenging song anyway but stick with me.) and I could not believe it. I was honestly gobsmacked. It is Just Not Done. You don’t play a signature song of Brown’s when he is in the building, never mind taking the stage as a headliner! Morrison gets through to the part where he should do some of the stop and go. He disappears backstage and his band is trying to keep it up but we all know that man is coming out alone if he comes back at all. He comes back alone, wraps the song, everyone is puzzled. Then JB came out and made up for it. Anyway, a man who could do that isn’t a man I’d be looking to for advice of any kind.
posted by drowsy at 2:45 PM on November 14, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by drowsy at 2:45 PM on November 14, 2021 [19 favorites]
This clown has always stunk on ice. If you look up boring in the dictionary it redirects to any of his guitar solos.
Makes the Who look innovative. If you want to hear rock that won't wake the baby just get this doof to play, he'll water it down so you don't have to!
posted by Max Power at 2:58 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Makes the Who look innovative. If you want to hear rock that won't wake the baby just get this doof to play, he'll water it down so you don't have to!
posted by Max Power at 2:58 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
The best thing Eric Clapton ever did was to stop dead in his tracks when Wilson Pickett's take on "Hey Jude" came on the radio, awed by whoever it was playing guitar on it. He was headed into the studio to make an album, asked Tom Dowd about it, and Dowd said "Yeah, that's Duane Allman. He's playing here in town tonight -- wanna go to the show?" and *that* gave us Derek and The Dominoes, which I'm pretty sure would be a thin record without Allman but with Allman going head to head with Clapton they gave us one of the best records I know of -- Layla and Other Love Songs.
Layla would've been the last album of his that matters to me in any way,
posted by philip-random at 4:10 PM on November 14
philip-random beats me to the punch.....
Listening to Allman and Clapton going back and forth on that record, talking to one another through their goddamned guitars, it's just a spectacular record. (That piano bridge was stolen from Nicolette Larson, if I'm remembering correctly; Dowd had recorded it and then it was on hand when it was needed to give that song more room. What a great song. What a great record. Dowd, just great.
Why couldn't it have been Clapton killed on a motorcycle? Life would be so much better in just all kinds of ways...
posted by dancestoblue at 3:09 PM on November 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
Layla would've been the last album of his that matters to me in any way,
posted by philip-random at 4:10 PM on November 14
philip-random beats me to the punch.....
Listening to Allman and Clapton going back and forth on that record, talking to one another through their goddamned guitars, it's just a spectacular record. (That piano bridge was stolen from Nicolette Larson, if I'm remembering correctly; Dowd had recorded it and then it was on hand when it was needed to give that song more room. What a great song. What a great record. Dowd, just great.
Why couldn't it have been Clapton killed on a motorcycle? Life would be so much better in just all kinds of ways...
posted by dancestoblue at 3:09 PM on November 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
That piano bridge was stolen from...
Rita Coolidge.
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:13 PM on November 14, 2021 [14 favorites]
Rita Coolidge.
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:13 PM on November 14, 2021 [14 favorites]
So, Claptoff...
posted by chavenet at 3:19 PM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 3:19 PM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
Yeah, don't forget that Van Morrison has also been a notably horrible asshole for... Checks watch... 55 years or so, by most accounts.
Ex-bandmate of mine has been working as a music journalist since late in the last century. He tells me that the world can be divided into two groups: people who like Van Morrison and people who have met Van Morrison.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:24 PM on November 14, 2021 [56 favorites]
Ex-bandmate of mine has been working as a music journalist since late in the last century. He tells me that the world can be divided into two groups: people who like Van Morrison and people who have met Van Morrison.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:24 PM on November 14, 2021 [56 favorites]
Boomer Morrissey.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 3:34 PM on November 14, 2021 [24 favorites]
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 3:34 PM on November 14, 2021 [24 favorites]
Don't forget this fact
You can't get it back
Vaccine.
posted by clavdivs at 3:45 PM on November 14, 2021 [14 favorites]
You can't get it back
Vaccine.
posted by clavdivs at 3:45 PM on November 14, 2021 [14 favorites]
I assume the anti-vax stuff came from the terrible reaction he had to the vaccines. To be fair, anyone would lose their shit if they thought they could never use their hands again for a few weeks, so I can kinda figure out where he got it from.
A great many people who have had terrible reactions to the vaccine are still able to accept that "okay, maybe it's bad for me, but I am the exception to the rule" and don't try to stop others from getting it. Quite the opposite, in fact - many such people who have had bad reactions to the vaccines then urge others to go ahead and get THEIR OWN shots "because I can't".
So I can sympathize with his bad reaction to the vaccine - it understandably would have been frightening - but not to the "and therefore it is bad for everyone" conclusion he jumped to.
....I'd known about Van Morrison going anti-vax as well; I've consider myself a Van Morrison fan, but have come to realize that I'm only really a fan of four specific Van Morrison albums and a scant handful of his other songs. Is there a word for that?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:53 PM on November 14, 2021 [16 favorites]
A great many people who have had terrible reactions to the vaccine are still able to accept that "okay, maybe it's bad for me, but I am the exception to the rule" and don't try to stop others from getting it. Quite the opposite, in fact - many such people who have had bad reactions to the vaccines then urge others to go ahead and get THEIR OWN shots "because I can't".
So I can sympathize with his bad reaction to the vaccine - it understandably would have been frightening - but not to the "and therefore it is bad for everyone" conclusion he jumped to.
....I'd known about Van Morrison going anti-vax as well; I've consider myself a Van Morrison fan, but have come to realize that I'm only really a fan of four specific Van Morrison albums and a scant handful of his other songs. Is there a word for that?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:53 PM on November 14, 2021 [16 favorites]
I’ve lived my entire adult life without Clapton, Van Morrison, or even Morrissey releasing any noteworthy music. They’re each a relic of another time, and they’re only held in such high regard because the culture industry is enabling boomers. Phoebe Bridgers was right.
posted by The River Ivel at 3:59 PM on November 14, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by The River Ivel at 3:59 PM on November 14, 2021 [12 favorites]
So much Milkshake Duck from these fuckers...
What a bummer
posted by Windopaene at 4:03 PM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
What a bummer
posted by Windopaene at 4:03 PM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'd like to back up EmpressCallipygos. I'm in my late 50s and had a really bad reaction to the AstraZeneca. I was horribly achy and unable to do anything productive for 3 full weeks. I have NO sympathy for that financially secure crybaby.
posted by brachiopod at 4:07 PM on November 14, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by brachiopod at 4:07 PM on November 14, 2021 [13 favorites]
I mean, I generally claim to enjoy the music of Van Morrison, but I also don't think he's recorded anything worth listening to since 1974.
Clapton on the other hand hasn't recorded anything I enjoy since 1968 or so.
posted by SystematicAbuse at 4:19 PM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
Clapton on the other hand hasn't recorded anything I enjoy since 1968 or so.
posted by SystematicAbuse at 4:19 PM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
I've always considered myself a fan but recently when this all came out, I thought about it and everything that I love of his, is at least 50 years old. The Yardbirds, Cream, Derick and the Dominos are still terrific but not only are they over a half century old but he's often the least essential musician on the individual tracks.
He's basically just been treading water musically since the early seventies.
posted by octothorpe at 4:23 PM on November 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
He's basically just been treading water musically since the early seventies.
posted by octothorpe at 4:23 PM on November 14, 2021 [7 favorites]
Never Meet Your Heroes, Chapter the Nth, nor, evidently, read their interviews.
posted by rhizome at 4:32 PM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 4:32 PM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
Just don't have heroes, IMO.
posted by signal at 4:50 PM on November 14, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by signal at 4:50 PM on November 14, 2021 [14 favorites]
White English man who appropriated black southern music is a massive racist. I’m shocked!
posted by interogative mood at 5:24 PM on November 14, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 5:24 PM on November 14, 2021 [9 favorites]
I also don't think he's recorded anything worth listening to since 1974.
Sure, but that 1974 album is among the greatest of all art, imo. I would take any one track on it over Clapton's entire career. I've listened to Veedon Fleece more times than I have the entire catalogs of The Beatles and Stones combined.
posted by dobbs at 5:26 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Sure, but that 1974 album is among the greatest of all art, imo. I would take any one track on it over Clapton's entire career. I've listened to Veedon Fleece more times than I have the entire catalogs of The Beatles and Stones combined.
posted by dobbs at 5:26 PM on November 14, 2021 [4 favorites]
Yeah, Veedon Fleece is a favorite album of mine as well. I've bought more than one copy of it over time because I've played it so much.
I just wish it was by somebody else.
posted by SystematicAbuse at 5:34 PM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
I just wish it was by somebody else.
posted by SystematicAbuse at 5:34 PM on November 14, 2021 [3 favorites]
Probably time for me to do what I’ve been smarmily prescribing to Elvis fans and Led Zeppelin fans for ages, to wit: study up on the underrated Black artists whose brilliance these guys ripped off, watered down, and sold to other white guys.
There's a lot of differences, but to me, a big one is that, when I listen to those old records, they sound like they are playing for their lives, perhaps because, you know, they kind of were. When I hear most white "blues-rock", what I hear it saying is: look at me, look how good I am.
Pinetop Perkins wasn't going to go to law school if the piano thing didn't work out, you know......
posted by thelonius at 5:49 PM on November 14, 2021 [18 favorites]
There's a lot of differences, but to me, a big one is that, when I listen to those old records, they sound like they are playing for their lives, perhaps because, you know, they kind of were. When I hear most white "blues-rock", what I hear it saying is: look at me, look how good I am.
Pinetop Perkins wasn't going to go to law school if the piano thing didn't work out, you know......
posted by thelonius at 5:49 PM on November 14, 2021 [18 favorites]
My take away from his memoir was that it was drunkenly wrecking his rod while fly fishing rather than drunkenly wrecking the family gifts on Christmas Eve that led him to getting sober. My take away from Pattie Boyd's memoir was that he had terrible breath. Quite the fellow.
posted by Paid In Full at 6:04 PM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Paid In Full at 6:04 PM on November 14, 2021 [2 favorites]
I am trying to think of something insightful to add, but I have almost nothing else to say about this.
posted by ovvl at 6:12 PM on November 14, 2021
posted by ovvl at 6:12 PM on November 14, 2021
I'm getting fed up of people in this thread down pedaling Clapton's racism or talking about how his music sucks. He wasn't some sort of racist-lite; his was full-blown, overt, vile hatred. In case you haven't heard, here are his own words, from way back in 1976, nearly a half century ago:
"Stop Britain from becoming a black colony. Get the foreigners out. Get the w*gs out. Get the c**ns out. Keep Britain white. I used to be into dope, now I’m into racism. It’s much heavier, man. Fucking w*gs, man. Fucking Saudis taking over London. Bastard w*gs. Britain is becoming overcrowded and Enoch will stop it and send them all back. The black w*gs and c**ns and Arabs and fucking Jamaicans and fucking … don’t belong here, we don’t want them here. This is England, this is a white country, we don’t want any black w*gs and c**ns living here. We need to make clear to them they are not welcome. England is for white people, man. We are a white country. I don’t want fucking w*gs living next to me with their standards. This is Great Britain, a white country. What is happening to us, for fuck’s sake?"
Source: https://www.theroot.com/eric-clapton-whitesplains-his-racism-he-even-had-a-bla-1822054554
(PS: I'm a "w*g". I would write the word in full because it's a shame on Clapton not on me, but Metafilter auto-blocks the word.)
posted by splitpeasoup at 6:24 PM on November 14, 2021 [69 favorites]
"Stop Britain from becoming a black colony. Get the foreigners out. Get the w*gs out. Get the c**ns out. Keep Britain white. I used to be into dope, now I’m into racism. It’s much heavier, man. Fucking w*gs, man. Fucking Saudis taking over London. Bastard w*gs. Britain is becoming overcrowded and Enoch will stop it and send them all back. The black w*gs and c**ns and Arabs and fucking Jamaicans and fucking … don’t belong here, we don’t want them here. This is England, this is a white country, we don’t want any black w*gs and c**ns living here. We need to make clear to them they are not welcome. England is for white people, man. We are a white country. I don’t want fucking w*gs living next to me with their standards. This is Great Britain, a white country. What is happening to us, for fuck’s sake?"
Source: https://www.theroot.com/eric-clapton-whitesplains-his-racism-he-even-had-a-bla-1822054554
(PS: I'm a "w*g". I would write the word in full because it's a shame on Clapton not on me, but Metafilter auto-blocks the word.)
posted by splitpeasoup at 6:24 PM on November 14, 2021 [69 favorites]
Third-best guitarist in The Yardbirds…
posted by jonp72 at 7:17 PM on November 14, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by jonp72 at 7:17 PM on November 14, 2021 [12 favorites]
I'm getting fed up of people in this thread down pedaling Clapton's racism or talking about how his music sucks. He wasn't some sort of racist-lite; his was full-blown, overt, vile hatred. In case you haven't heard, here are his own words, from way back in 1976, nearly a half century ago:
I actually never heard about that until about a month ago and yeah, you are totally correct. I probably should have made it more clear in my comment that it wasn't much of a loss not paying any attention to his music now that we know who he really is.
posted by octothorpe at 7:26 PM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
I actually never heard about that until about a month ago and yeah, you are totally correct. I probably should have made it more clear in my comment that it wasn't much of a loss not paying any attention to his music now that we know who he really is.
posted by octothorpe at 7:26 PM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
Ugh. I liked him back in the day. I had no idea his assholery predated 1976.
posted by SillyShepherd at 7:50 PM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by SillyShepherd at 7:50 PM on November 14, 2021 [1 favorite]
It's telling that the best Clapton material is Cream and Blind Faith (and Blind Faith sounds more like a Winwood act than a Clapton act).
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:52 PM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:52 PM on November 14, 2021 [5 favorites]
Well, at least his hair is not as bad as it used to be.
posted by y2karl at 8:42 PM on November 14, 2021
posted by y2karl at 8:42 PM on November 14, 2021
look at me, look how good I am
Around my house we call this "guitar masturbation" and Clapton has always been Captain of that circle jerk team.
posted by dobbs at 12:11 AM on November 15, 2021
Around my house we call this "guitar masturbation" and Clapton has always been Captain of that circle jerk team.
posted by dobbs at 12:11 AM on November 15, 2021
I hadn't been keeping tabs on Van Morrison. Every day, things get more like Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
He got ringworm?
posted by Meatbomb at 12:17 AM on November 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
He got ringworm?
posted by Meatbomb at 12:17 AM on November 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
la-tor
you got me on a ven-ti
la-tor
posted by secret about box at 12:56 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
you got me on a ven-ti
la-tor
posted by secret about box at 12:56 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Is "inscrutable" one of those euphemisms, like "economic insecurity"?
posted by acb at 1:11 AM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by acb at 1:11 AM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Previously.
Just don't have heroes, IMO.
posted by signal
This is the right answer.
posted by Pouteria at 3:11 AM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Just don't have heroes, IMO.
posted by signal
This is the right answer.
posted by Pouteria at 3:11 AM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Veedon Fleece is a favorite album of mine as well. I've bought more than one copy of it over time because I've played it so much. I just wish it was by somebody else.
I have a movie blog (this is relevant, hang in there) and will at some point have to watch movies involving dudes who were later on revealed to be shitstains. I've decided I will not mention their names at all when I write those film reviews, and come up with one fake name to stand in for them, to kind of signal that "yeah, I know who it really was in the lead role but I don't want to give the guy's name any publicity" and to separate the film itself from their name. Kind of like how directors use the one stand-in name "Alan Smithee" as their credit when they don't want their own names associated with a particular film if the studio changes it too much. So, in my blog, I would be talking about how "Sid Meniscus" was in The Usual Suspects and directed Annie Hall or whatever.
We could maybe do the same thing with Van Morrison and Eric Clapton if we like-the-music-but-hate-the-guy; you know, come up with a name like "Dirk MacMarcket" or something, so we can still talk about Veedon Fleece or Astral Weeks without crediting the actual anti-vaxer who created it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:59 AM on November 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
I have a movie blog (this is relevant, hang in there) and will at some point have to watch movies involving dudes who were later on revealed to be shitstains. I've decided I will not mention their names at all when I write those film reviews, and come up with one fake name to stand in for them, to kind of signal that "yeah, I know who it really was in the lead role but I don't want to give the guy's name any publicity" and to separate the film itself from their name. Kind of like how directors use the one stand-in name "Alan Smithee" as their credit when they don't want their own names associated with a particular film if the studio changes it too much. So, in my blog, I would be talking about how "Sid Meniscus" was in The Usual Suspects and directed Annie Hall or whatever.
We could maybe do the same thing with Van Morrison and Eric Clapton if we like-the-music-but-hate-the-guy; you know, come up with a name like "Dirk MacMarcket" or something, so we can still talk about Veedon Fleece or Astral Weeks without crediting the actual anti-vaxer who created it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:59 AM on November 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
Having read Clapton’s autobiography several years ago, none of this surprises me. In his own words, he comes across as a self-absorbed dick. Comparisons with Atwater are very apropos in that both men were seen as somewhat redeemed after they confessed to their sins yet they were unchanged.
posted by coldhotel at 4:36 AM on November 15, 2021
posted by coldhotel at 4:36 AM on November 15, 2021
Boomer Morrissey
Yeah.
Clapton is absolutely in the canon of boomerish Classic Rock FM Radio in the United States--I think if you were to pick a random MAGA-head of that generation and ask them to rate their rock heroes, Clapton would probably rate 9.5 of 10.
Conversely, the sort of radio stations that have wingnut talk in the mornings peppered with a few classic music tracks, for people to listen to in their monster truck as they drive in 30 miles from exurb to office, Clapton's probably in regular rotation when they do get around to playing an actual song.
(FYI, few of those people would even know who Morrissey is....)
posted by gimonca at 5:03 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yeah.
Clapton is absolutely in the canon of boomerish Classic Rock FM Radio in the United States--I think if you were to pick a random MAGA-head of that generation and ask them to rate their rock heroes, Clapton would probably rate 9.5 of 10.
Conversely, the sort of radio stations that have wingnut talk in the mornings peppered with a few classic music tracks, for people to listen to in their monster truck as they drive in 30 miles from exurb to office, Clapton's probably in regular rotation when they do get around to playing an actual song.
(FYI, few of those people would even know who Morrissey is....)
posted by gimonca at 5:03 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Whatever happened to him, it happened before 1976. Snopes: "At a concert in 1976, Eric Clapton went on a racist rant, using deeply offensive racial slurs and calling for the deportation of non-whites from Britain."
And thus moving Rock Against Racism from idea to full blown action.
posted by NoMich at 5:18 AM on November 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
And thus moving Rock Against Racism from idea to full blown action.
posted by NoMich at 5:18 AM on November 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
I just wish it was by somebody else.
Maybe 1974 Van Morrison is not the same as 2021 Van Morrison.
posted by Kiwi at 5:26 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Maybe 1974 Van Morrison is not the same as 2021 Van Morrison.
posted by Kiwi at 5:26 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
White English man who appropriated black southern music is a massive racist.
That's pretty much ⅓ of the population of England. Appropriating Black (mostly American) music is as English as importing tea from India as a national drink. It's one part self-exoneration from colonialism and another part colonialism.
Case in point: the entire idea of “Northern Soul”, where the “Northern” refers not to who produced it or where it came from, but to the part of England where it was consumed.
posted by acb at 5:33 AM on November 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
That's pretty much ⅓ of the population of England. Appropriating Black (mostly American) music is as English as importing tea from India as a national drink. It's one part self-exoneration from colonialism and another part colonialism.
Case in point: the entire idea of “Northern Soul”, where the “Northern” refers not to who produced it or where it came from, but to the part of England where it was consumed.
posted by acb at 5:33 AM on November 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
I feel like Clapton & Van Morrison's anti-lockdown stupidity popped up on my radar a while ago (like, early 2020?), mostly presented (by them) as some sort of "solidarity" with other musicians who couldn't make a living cause they couldn't play gigs.
To which the general reaction (and mine) seemed to mostly be, "Oh, you can't make a buck because you can't play live? Yeah, me neither, you fuckers, only I'm not sitting on millions of dollars in my bank account, so why don'tcha just sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up."
posted by soundguy99 at 5:56 AM on November 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
To which the general reaction (and mine) seemed to mostly be, "Oh, you can't make a buck because you can't play live? Yeah, me neither, you fuckers, only I'm not sitting on millions of dollars in my bank account, so why don'tcha just sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up."
posted by soundguy99 at 5:56 AM on November 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Third-best guitarist in The Yardbirds…
I've noticed over the years that whenever those other two guitarists are interviewed and the topic of Clapton comes up, Beck and Page are either dismissive or evasive. I recall a joint interview in the 90s and they were enthusiastic about other guitarists, especially Keef. But when the interviewer mentioned Clapton, the enthusiasm died. Just a few terse hints of tepid praise and they moved on.
These are two guys that have known EC since the early 60s and all they can muster is a few back-handed compliments or remark that he needs to be pushed to play at his best. So yeah, Clapton is a dick and the two guys that have known him the longest are tired of him.
posted by Ber at 6:00 AM on November 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
I've noticed over the years that whenever those other two guitarists are interviewed and the topic of Clapton comes up, Beck and Page are either dismissive or evasive. I recall a joint interview in the 90s and they were enthusiastic about other guitarists, especially Keef. But when the interviewer mentioned Clapton, the enthusiasm died. Just a few terse hints of tepid praise and they moved on.
These are two guys that have known EC since the early 60s and all they can muster is a few back-handed compliments or remark that he needs to be pushed to play at his best. So yeah, Clapton is a dick and the two guys that have known him the longest are tired of him.
posted by Ber at 6:00 AM on November 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
Between this and the recent Boomer Bends kerfluffle, it's not looking good for old white males who became famous in the '60s by copying Black music.
posted by signal at 6:10 AM on November 15, 2021
posted by signal at 6:10 AM on November 15, 2021
Clapton is absolutely in the canon of boomerish Classic Rock FM Radio in the United States--I think if you were to pick a random MAGA-head of that generation and ask them to rate their rock heroes, Clapton would probably rate 9.5 of 10.
A lot of them just presume he was (and so is) a hippie, based largely on Cream.
Nugent is the official Boomer MAGA guitar hero.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:24 AM on November 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
A lot of them just presume he was (and so is) a hippie, based largely on Cream.
Nugent is the official Boomer MAGA guitar hero.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:24 AM on November 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Between this and the recent Boomer Bends kerfluffle, it's not looking good for old white males who became famous in the '60s by copying Black music.
That's a pretty sweeping statement that doesn't seem to be true if you give it any thought. Especially considering that would include almost every rock band of the 60s.
posted by Liquidwolf at 6:25 AM on November 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
I was being facetious, I doubt more than a handful of people have heard of 'Boomer Bends'.
posted by signal at 7:20 AM on November 15, 2021
posted by signal at 7:20 AM on November 15, 2021
While My Guitar Gently Weeps is my favorite Beatles.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:22 AM on November 15, 2021
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:22 AM on November 15, 2021
I think drugs and alcohol happened to him. Yes, he apparently got sober, but the damage was almost certainly done, to some extent.
Not that the substance abuse created the racism. The article points out that he blamed that early rant on drinking, but you don't just come up with that shit out of nowhere. But I think the decades he spent drinking sort of drove these evil thoughts and paranoia deeper into his synapses until they were effectively part of his personality. Most of the nasty old drunks in my family were not that political either way, but they did have these kinds of weird fixations and they sounded very similar to Clapton and Morrison once they got going.
posted by BibiRose at 7:25 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Not that the substance abuse created the racism. The article points out that he blamed that early rant on drinking, but you don't just come up with that shit out of nowhere. But I think the decades he spent drinking sort of drove these evil thoughts and paranoia deeper into his synapses until they were effectively part of his personality. Most of the nasty old drunks in my family were not that political either way, but they did have these kinds of weird fixations and they sounded very similar to Clapton and Morrison once they got going.
posted by BibiRose at 7:25 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
put on some David Byrne and wash this foul taste out!
Maybe until you pick up Chris Frantz's memoire, "Remain In Love", wherein Frantz relates that the last straw in the band's breakup was Byrne's racist rants against aboriginals in Australia, and (having traveled all the way there) Bryne refused to go on for barefoot savages.
posted by StickyCarpet at 7:28 AM on November 15, 2021 [16 favorites]
Maybe until you pick up Chris Frantz's memoire, "Remain In Love", wherein Frantz relates that the last straw in the band's breakup was Byrne's racist rants against aboriginals in Australia, and (having traveled all the way there) Bryne refused to go on for barefoot savages.
posted by StickyCarpet at 7:28 AM on November 15, 2021 [16 favorites]
Joe "Stepping Out" Jackson became a brave advocate for smokers' rights.
Everybody sucks.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:35 AM on November 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
Everybody sucks.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:35 AM on November 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
A friendly reminder for those who aren't so into Binary Thinking: It's alright to dislike an artist as an individual but still enjoy their art. There doesn't need to be a conflict there.
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:44 AM on November 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:44 AM on November 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
Best dunk on Clapton I've heard lately:
"Eric Clapton would have taken the vaccine if they'd called it George Harrison's Wife."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 7:50 AM on November 15, 2021 [22 favorites]
"Eric Clapton would have taken the vaccine if they'd called it George Harrison's Wife."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 7:50 AM on November 15, 2021 [22 favorites]
It's alright to dislike an artist as an individual but still enjoy their art
That Byrne story kind of cuts the legs out from under cultural commentary like True Stories or the lyrics to "Swamp" and "Girlfriend Is Better" though, which makes me sad.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:50 AM on November 15, 2021
That Byrne story kind of cuts the legs out from under cultural commentary like True Stories or the lyrics to "Swamp" and "Girlfriend Is Better" though, which makes me sad.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:50 AM on November 15, 2021
It's alright to dislike an artist as an individual but still enjoy their art
I dunno, maybe I'm a Binary Thinker, but that seems less like a fact and more like a thing about which reasonable people may reasonably disagree.
posted by box at 7:53 AM on November 15, 2021 [7 favorites]
I dunno, maybe I'm a Binary Thinker, but that seems less like a fact and more like a thing about which reasonable people may reasonably disagree.
posted by box at 7:53 AM on November 15, 2021 [7 favorites]
OTOH, once you know the artist's views, you see them in their work. You notice that it would have been far more of a stretch for someone who's not feverishly xenophobic to have come up with the cosmic horror that Lovecraft wrote, that Rowling's TERFery line up with the vaguely Blairite liberalism of her books, or that Klaus Kinski was a monster in real life. Which may colour your enjoyment of their works.
posted by acb at 7:53 AM on November 15, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by acb at 7:53 AM on November 15, 2021 [13 favorites]
I think the whole issue of "can you love the art but hate the artist" has multiple ways to square that circle, so maybe hashing out which is the One Best Way to do that is perhaps a bit of a fool's errand.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:07 AM on November 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:07 AM on November 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
I think there are certain professions that can bring out the worst in susceptible people. Lead guitar is one of them. It rewards prima donnas over team players. For that reason, bass guitarists tend to be more grounded.
In American football, the linemen grunts sacrifice their bodies for the diva running backs. In baseball, the pitchers have to assume the role of almighty God.
Comedian is another one of these.
Of course, a goodly number of those in these professions don't become overdazzled by their star roles.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:15 AM on November 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
In American football, the linemen grunts sacrifice their bodies for the diva running backs. In baseball, the pitchers have to assume the role of almighty God.
Comedian is another one of these.
Of course, a goodly number of those in these professions don't become overdazzled by their star roles.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:15 AM on November 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
It's alright to dislike an artist as an individual but still enjoy their art
in my experience, it varies in some mysterious way. For instance, I have zero problem with most of Cream's catalogue. And I'm not a particularly huge fan. Only own one of their records. But whenever I hear them, it just works on me for what it is. Three white guys powering psychedelically through the blues and whatever else gets in their way. Whereas somebody like Beck (Hansen), once I discovered his background in Scientology, it all fell apart for me. For whatever reason, I just couldn't buy him anymore. I couldn't trust him.
seems less like a fact and more like a thing about which reasonable people may reasonably disagree.
I think the whole issue of "can you love the art but hate the artist" has multiple ways to square that circle, so maybe hashing out which is the One Best Way to do that is perhaps a bit of a fool's errand.
totally agree with both these points yet I do feel it's a discussion that we (as a culture) need to spend more time on. If only to get a better grasp on just how we interact with the stuff of art and artists, and how it all gets mediated -- the McLuhanistic forms and forces at play.
posted by philip-random at 8:22 AM on November 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
I think the decades he spent drinking sort of drove these evil thoughts and paranoia deeper into his synapses until they were effectively part of his personality. Most of the nasty old drunks in my family were not that political either way, but they did have these kinds of weird fixations and they sounded very similar to Clapton and Morrison once they got going.
I think that it's not a matter of "[driving] evil thoughts and paranoia deeper into [the] synapses" so much as that one isn't very likely to be working on one's bullshit when one is drunk and/or stoned. (At least, that's how it worked with me.) That's also why programs like AA spend so much time on examining one's own problems and defects of character and dealing with them; these things tend to build up, and even if they don't drive the alcoholic or addict back into using, they can make lives miserable for the addict and/or the people around them. Of course, to even begin this process, it takes a certain amount of humility, which may be a problem for someone who used to see "Clapton is God" spraypainted around London.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:26 AM on November 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
I think that it's not a matter of "[driving] evil thoughts and paranoia deeper into [the] synapses" so much as that one isn't very likely to be working on one's bullshit when one is drunk and/or stoned. (At least, that's how it worked with me.) That's also why programs like AA spend so much time on examining one's own problems and defects of character and dealing with them; these things tend to build up, and even if they don't drive the alcoholic or addict back into using, they can make lives miserable for the addict and/or the people around them. Of course, to even begin this process, it takes a certain amount of humility, which may be a problem for someone who used to see "Clapton is God" spraypainted around London.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:26 AM on November 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
That Byrne story kind of cuts the legs out from under cultural commentary like True Stories or the lyrics to "Swamp" and "Girlfriend Is Better" though, which makes me sad.
Do you know if the story is even true? Considering he's apologized for other things he's done which he thought may be have offensive don't you think he'd own up to it and be regretful if it is true? It doesn't matter to me personally whether you like him or not but if you want to like him maybe you still can.
posted by Liquidwolf at 8:41 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Do you know if the story is even true? Considering he's apologized for other things he's done which he thought may be have offensive don't you think he'd own up to it and be regretful if it is true? It doesn't matter to me personally whether you like him or not but if you want to like him maybe you still can.
posted by Liquidwolf at 8:41 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I don’t know, that’s why I called it a “story....”
(I suppose an ‘if true’ parenthetical would’ve helped.)
I still listen to Jackson Browne sometimes, and Simon’s Graceland so it’s not like I’m incapable of separating the art from the artist. I do want to be aware of the need to do so, though, as I don’t want to admire someone as a person who doesn’t deserve that admiration (without regard for their musicianship).
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:43 AM on November 15, 2021
(I suppose an ‘if true’ parenthetical would’ve helped.)
I still listen to Jackson Browne sometimes, and Simon’s Graceland so it’s not like I’m incapable of separating the art from the artist. I do want to be aware of the need to do so, though, as I don’t want to admire someone as a person who doesn’t deserve that admiration (without regard for their musicianship).
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:43 AM on November 15, 2021
Fwiw here's the only "David Byrne's racist past" controversy that comes up during a quick internet search: he's sorry for wearing blackface in Stop Making Sense.
posted by Lyme Drop at 8:54 AM on November 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Lyme Drop at 8:54 AM on November 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
while we're being reductive, it seems like people rationalize their way into all kinds of terrible behaviours and mistakes
I was always ambivalent about the MTV Unplugged Clapton that was imposed on me almost daily working at a swimming pool as a kid, not my jam. Hence, easier to think the worst of that person. But then I worked at a record store and totally bought into Veedon Fleece, Astral Weeks, all kinds of early VM.. it's not that I can't believe he has become (maybe always was) an enormous ass, but I can't bring myself to unlike some of that music.
In short, let's be honest: many of us will continue to enjoy some art despite everything. There is deep psychology to this (as has been discussed in MeFi in many shared posts/articles). We are what we are. Now, continue dunking (or not) as you like.
posted by elkevelvet at 9:04 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I was always ambivalent about the MTV Unplugged Clapton that was imposed on me almost daily working at a swimming pool as a kid, not my jam. Hence, easier to think the worst of that person. But then I worked at a record store and totally bought into Veedon Fleece, Astral Weeks, all kinds of early VM.. it's not that I can't believe he has become (maybe always was) an enormous ass, but I can't bring myself to unlike some of that music.
In short, let's be honest: many of us will continue to enjoy some art despite everything. There is deep psychology to this (as has been discussed in MeFi in many shared posts/articles). We are what we are. Now, continue dunking (or not) as you like.
posted by elkevelvet at 9:04 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm totally going to invent snarky new lyrics to Caravan though.
oh no no no, no no no
turn down that....radio
cause you know
it's got no soul
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:08 AM on November 15, 2021
oh no no no, no no no
turn down that....radio
cause you know
it's got no soul
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:08 AM on November 15, 2021
I have no problem with David Byrne getting the Milkshake Duck treatment if deserved, but there's a bit of bad blood between him and Chris Frantz. The last real Talking Heads concert was in Christchurch in 1984, and Tina Weymouth recounts the same thing in a rather different way:
David Byrne, without telling anyone, had let on a couple of crazy girls – who I suppose had their hearts in the right place – who were trying to promote this freedom for Maori people thing, but it was the wrong place and the wrong time. People were booing and throwing things at them, and that was difficult enough. Anyway, we finally got on stage and we were five songs into the show when David Byrne ran off and refused to come back on. He said: "I'm not going to play for a bunch of people dancing in the mud."
posted by netowl at 9:12 AM on November 15, 2021 [9 favorites]
David Byrne, without telling anyone, had let on a couple of crazy girls – who I suppose had their hearts in the right place – who were trying to promote this freedom for Maori people thing, but it was the wrong place and the wrong time. People were booing and throwing things at them, and that was difficult enough. Anyway, we finally got on stage and we were five songs into the show when David Byrne ran off and refused to come back on. He said: "I'm not going to play for a bunch of people dancing in the mud."
posted by netowl at 9:12 AM on November 15, 2021 [9 favorites]
re: Boomer Bends
I suppose I have to thank Mr. Clapton for being enough of an asshole that a discussion of such connected me with this:
We need to talk about boomer bends: why the backlash to Tim Henson's technique preference represents more than just a generational divide
Polyphia guitarist Tim Henson recently made the mistake of voicing a personal preference in a video on the internet. The throwaway comment on how he likes to avoid “boomer-ish” bends occupied roughly 10 seconds of a 40-minute roundtable entitled The Modern Guitar Discussion.
Given this context – or, frankly, any context – it was a perfectly reasonable statement to make. Not least because host Rick Beato had invited Henson on alongside fellow contemporary guitar titans Tosin Abasi and Misha Mansoor, to discuss exactly this sort of thing.
But, of course, half the internet interpreted Henson’s comment as nothing less than a threat to their very existence. It was as if Henson had stood on his chair and made a rallying call to eradicate not just 'boomer bends', but an entire generation and, indeed, capitalism, comfortable insoles and Star Wars.
posted by philip-random at 9:14 AM on November 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
I suppose I have to thank Mr. Clapton for being enough of an asshole that a discussion of such connected me with this:
We need to talk about boomer bends: why the backlash to Tim Henson's technique preference represents more than just a generational divide
Polyphia guitarist Tim Henson recently made the mistake of voicing a personal preference in a video on the internet. The throwaway comment on how he likes to avoid “boomer-ish” bends occupied roughly 10 seconds of a 40-minute roundtable entitled The Modern Guitar Discussion.
Given this context – or, frankly, any context – it was a perfectly reasonable statement to make. Not least because host Rick Beato had invited Henson on alongside fellow contemporary guitar titans Tosin Abasi and Misha Mansoor, to discuss exactly this sort of thing.
But, of course, half the internet interpreted Henson’s comment as nothing less than a threat to their very existence. It was as if Henson had stood on his chair and made a rallying call to eradicate not just 'boomer bends', but an entire generation and, indeed, capitalism, comfortable insoles and Star Wars.
posted by philip-random at 9:14 AM on November 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
Joe "Stepping Out" Jackson became a brave advocate for smokers' rights.
Everything gives you cancer.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:18 AM on November 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
Everything gives you cancer.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:18 AM on November 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
I would be talking about how "Sid Meniscus" was in The Usual Suspects
I love Mr. Meniscus in The Usual Suspects and L.A. Confidential, which are two of my favorite movies. My relationship with those movies came before I knew about his abuses, so I'll watch them, but I won't watch his new work. I really liked Baby Driver when it came out, but it's probably off the list.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:22 AM on November 15, 2021
I love Mr. Meniscus in The Usual Suspects and L.A. Confidential, which are two of my favorite movies. My relationship with those movies came before I knew about his abuses, so I'll watch them, but I won't watch his new work. I really liked Baby Driver when it came out, but it's probably off the list.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:22 AM on November 15, 2021
He missed his chance to OD on heroin making Layla. His playing hasn't come close to that since.
Oh, and he wouldn't be remembered for all the shitty things that have come out of his mouth, either.
posted by tommasz at 9:43 AM on November 15, 2021
Oh, and he wouldn't be remembered for all the shitty things that have come out of his mouth, either.
posted by tommasz at 9:43 AM on November 15, 2021
I love Mr. Meniscus in The Usual Suspects and L.A. Confidential
Glengarry Glen Ross and The Ref.
Swimming With Sharks sure hits differently, too.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:44 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Glengarry Glen Ross and The Ref.
Swimming With Sharks sure hits differently, too.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:44 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
The guy played guitar on three of my favorite songs (although bandmates did a lot of the heavy lifting). Yeah I'm old. But I'm done with those now. What a fucking idiot.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:48 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:48 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Your best song is based on a 7th century Arabic poem and set to African musical styles you fiucking shithead! Gaaaaaaah. GAAAAAAAAAH!
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:56 AM on November 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:56 AM on November 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
It's alright to dislike an artist as an individual but still enjoy their art.
Pro-tip - get their music at "the bay", so you don't have to fund their nonsense.
OTOH - this "ignore the artist, enjoy their art, even if they are a horrible/flawed person" breaks down everywhere - I can no longer enjoy Bill Cosby - even his pre-TV stand-up, I cannot enjoy "Moxy Früvous", Jeepers Creepers/Powder, I hear Hitler was not a "bad" painter - but should his work be judged entirely without context?
posted by rozcakj at 10:01 AM on November 15, 2021
Pro-tip - get their music at "the bay", so you don't have to fund their nonsense.
OTOH - this "ignore the artist, enjoy their art, even if they are a horrible/flawed person" breaks down everywhere - I can no longer enjoy Bill Cosby - even his pre-TV stand-up, I cannot enjoy "Moxy Früvous", Jeepers Creepers/Powder, I hear Hitler was not a "bad" painter - but should his work be judged entirely without context?
posted by rozcakj at 10:01 AM on November 15, 2021
I really liked Baby Driver when it came out, but it's probably off the list.
Uh oh, what'd I miss?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:09 AM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Uh oh, what'd I miss?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:09 AM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Anyone who has to put up with Ginger Baker for more than a few minutes is not gonna come out kind and happy with the world
Ginger Baker and Eric Clapton both seem to be quite horrible people. Which leads me to wonder: what was Jack Bruce like? I know that he didn't follow Baker and Clapton into Blind Faith.
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 10:12 AM on November 15, 2021
Ginger Baker and Eric Clapton both seem to be quite horrible people. Which leads me to wonder: what was Jack Bruce like? I know that he didn't follow Baker and Clapton into Blind Faith.
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 10:12 AM on November 15, 2021
Uh oh, what'd I miss?
(I had to look this up myself)
Uh - the male-counterpart-name to "Karen", who is also very "spaced-out". He was the one of the "Usual Suspects".
posted by rozcakj at 10:28 AM on November 15, 2021
(I had to look this up myself)
Uh - the male-counterpart-name to "Karen", who is also very "spaced-out". He was the one of the "Usual Suspects".
posted by rozcakj at 10:28 AM on November 15, 2021
I really liked Baby Driver when it came out, but it's probably off the list.
Uh oh, what'd I miss?
Kevin Spacey - Sexual misconduct allegations
(made worse, I think, by his weird "I'm my famed character Frank Underwood, but I'm also denying the allegations against the actor-who-is-not-me" yearly Christmas Eve videos since then)
posted by CrystalDave at 10:29 AM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Uh oh, what'd I miss?
Kevin Spacey - Sexual misconduct allegations
(made worse, I think, by his weird "I'm my famed character Frank Underwood, but I'm also denying the allegations against the actor-who-is-not-me" yearly Christmas Eve videos since then)
posted by CrystalDave at 10:29 AM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
No, I mean who was the person involved with Baby Driver who was the shitstain.
(Unless you're trying to tell me Kevin Spacey was in Baby Driver, a fact of which I was not aware.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:38 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
(Unless you're trying to tell me Kevin Spacey was in Baby Driver, a fact of which I was not aware.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:38 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
He was indeed, Empress of the wonderful.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:50 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:50 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yeah, he was the main antagonist (arguably main) in that movie, the kingpin guy who Baby was working for. Second billing behind Ansel Elgort as the title character.
posted by CrystalDave at 11:05 AM on November 15, 2021
posted by CrystalDave at 11:05 AM on November 15, 2021
what was Jack Bruce like?
Ginger Baker said that he was really hard to get along with, which is... something. Jack Bruce was actually responsible for most of the original ideas, compositions, riffs, and vocals in the band.
posted by ovvl at 11:08 AM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Ginger Baker said that he was really hard to get along with, which is... something. Jack Bruce was actually responsible for most of the original ideas, compositions, riffs, and vocals in the band.
posted by ovvl at 11:08 AM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Whereas somebody like Beck (Hansen), once I discovered his background in Scientology
Along similar lines, I automatically unfollow any artists who start hustling NFTs/cryptocurrencies.
posted by acb at 11:15 AM on November 15, 2021 [7 favorites]
Along similar lines, I automatically unfollow any artists who start hustling NFTs/cryptocurrencies.
posted by acb at 11:15 AM on November 15, 2021 [7 favorites]
I've read "Remain in Love" but don't remember the Aboriginal story. Maybe it was left out in a later edition? Or I was half asleep when I read that bit and forgot about it? Byrne and Eno were apparently not the nicest people during that time, even Jon Hassell (may he r.i.p.) fell out with Eno then.
Anyway, I've always thought of Clapton as a total dickhead. The weirdest thing for me is that George Harrison was such a close friend to him. The nicest thing I can think about that is that people are multi-layered.
posted by Kosmob0t at 11:23 AM on November 15, 2021
Anyway, I've always thought of Clapton as a total dickhead. The weirdest thing for me is that George Harrison was such a close friend to him. The nicest thing I can think about that is that people are multi-layered.
posted by Kosmob0t at 11:23 AM on November 15, 2021
there's a bit of bad blood between him and Chris Frantz
Based on 45 minutes of listening to Frantz on the radio while driving through Connecticut a few years back, it's more than "a bit." Frantz sounded quite bitter about Byrne and the band's break-up.
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:37 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Based on 45 minutes of listening to Frantz on the radio while driving through Connecticut a few years back, it's more than "a bit." Frantz sounded quite bitter about Byrne and the band's break-up.
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:37 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
What was Jack Bruce like?
For whatever it's worth, British-Indian multi-instrumentalist Nitin Sawhney is directing a thing about Jack Bruce's music, and was close enough to him that he attended his funeral.
Ginger Baker was pretty terrible, but his brief stint hanging out with Fela Kuti did give us this drum duet.
posted by box at 11:49 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
For whatever it's worth, British-Indian multi-instrumentalist Nitin Sawhney is directing a thing about Jack Bruce's music, and was close enough to him that he attended his funeral.
Ginger Baker was pretty terrible, but his brief stint hanging out with Fela Kuti did give us this drum duet.
posted by box at 11:49 AM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
If you want to enjoy some deep cuts from the classic rock era, Songs For A Tailor Is well worth a listen.
posted by thelonius at 12:34 PM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 12:34 PM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
re Wilson Pickett sessions - someone at the label asked, who is that playing guitar? and was told "some hippie cat who lives in our parking lot"
posted by thelonius at 12:36 PM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 12:36 PM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
You can't rely on Ginger's opinion on anyone. The guy was so bitter he made Van Morrison look like Mr. Rogers.
posted by Ber at 1:00 PM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Ber at 1:00 PM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
The guitar legend has long been inscrutable, but his covid turn has friends and fans puzzled like never before
The deck/subhead on this article is such an infuriating example of a major publication's refusal to say something meaningful. "Inscrutable"? I'm not sure there's any there there to figure out, to scrutinize, beyond the fact that Clapton is a jerk. This makes him sound mysterious and gives him credit for far more thought process than he probably has behind his actions.
"Puzzled"? Is anyone really mulling over the supposed "puzzle" of what Clapton is thinking now, or are they simply drawing their own conclusions from his actions and moving on?
This article could have been a single sentence: Eric Clapton and Van Morrison are dicks.
What is it about major publications' mealymouthed refusal to ascribe direct motivations to powerful men who repeatedly take actions and say things that are offensive and ill-considered? See also: "The myth of the male bumbler."
posted by limeonaire at 1:07 PM on November 15, 2021 [16 favorites]
The deck/subhead on this article is such an infuriating example of a major publication's refusal to say something meaningful. "Inscrutable"? I'm not sure there's any there there to figure out, to scrutinize, beyond the fact that Clapton is a jerk. This makes him sound mysterious and gives him credit for far more thought process than he probably has behind his actions.
"Puzzled"? Is anyone really mulling over the supposed "puzzle" of what Clapton is thinking now, or are they simply drawing their own conclusions from his actions and moving on?
This article could have been a single sentence: Eric Clapton and Van Morrison are dicks.
What is it about major publications' mealymouthed refusal to ascribe direct motivations to powerful men who repeatedly take actions and say things that are offensive and ill-considered? See also: "The myth of the male bumbler."
posted by limeonaire at 1:07 PM on November 15, 2021 [16 favorites]
"50 years of racist diatribes...could it be a pattern?"
posted by rhizome at 1:24 PM on November 15, 2021 [32 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 1:24 PM on November 15, 2021 [32 favorites]
Thanks for making me laugh out loud, rhizome!
posted by Bella Donna at 1:30 PM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 1:30 PM on November 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Thanks for making me laugh out loud, rhizome!
posted by Bella Donna at 3:30 PM on Novemb er 15
It got me, too. Great fun -- thx!
posted by dancestoblue at 1:36 PM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Bella Donna at 3:30 PM on Novemb er 15
It got me, too. Great fun -- thx!
posted by dancestoblue at 1:36 PM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Frantz sounded quite bitter about Byrne and the band's break-up.
I think he wanted U2-level success and ended up with Tom Tom Club-level success, and blames Byrne for it. They're both really talented and driven, but clearly Byrne is driven in a much different direction.
... sorry for wearing blackface in Stop Making Sense.
In case you're wondering what he apologized for, here's that promo video (warning: blackface): David Byrne Interview
posted by netowl at 2:26 PM on November 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
I think he wanted U2-level success and ended up with Tom Tom Club-level success, and blames Byrne for it. They're both really talented and driven, but clearly Byrne is driven in a much different direction.
... sorry for wearing blackface in Stop Making Sense.
In case you're wondering what he apologized for, here's that promo video (warning: blackface): David Byrne Interview
posted by netowl at 2:26 PM on November 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
I say this as a fairly decent guitarist: the enormous surplus of guitar solos of the last sixty-some years obviates the need for any more lead guitarists until at least 2040.
posted by aspersioncast at 4:07 PM on November 15, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 4:07 PM on November 15, 2021 [14 favorites]
"Eric Clapton would have taken the vaccine if they'd called it George Harrison's Wife."
Yeah I thought this was clever when I first saw it too but.. he did take the vaccine.
posted by Liquidwolf at 4:28 PM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yeah I thought this was clever when I first saw it too but.. he did take the vaccine.
posted by Liquidwolf at 4:28 PM on November 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Never Meet Your Heroes
Or make the Mekons your heroes.
posted by MrJM at 9:14 PM on November 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
Or make the Mekons your heroes.
posted by MrJM at 9:14 PM on November 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
I wonder how far Clapton (and other guitarists from that era) would get up the rankings if he was just starting out today?
Not exactly a shortage of very talented and hard working guitarists in our world now.
posted by Pouteria at 12:35 AM on November 16, 2021
Not exactly a shortage of very talented and hard working guitarists in our world now.
posted by Pouteria at 12:35 AM on November 16, 2021
yearly Christmas Eve videos since then
... It's still happening???
posted by cendawanita at 4:51 AM on November 16, 2021
... It's still happening???
posted by cendawanita at 4:51 AM on November 16, 2021
metafilter: comments have ranged from the anodyne to tedious shitnoodle ideology
posted by hearthpig at 5:29 AM on November 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by hearthpig at 5:29 AM on November 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
> (Unless you're trying to tell me Kevin Spacey was in Baby Driver, a fact of which I was not aware.)
He was indeed....
Oh, bleah. I mean, I already wasn't keen on seeing it anyway, but. That particular Sid Meniscus is one I was hoping would fade into obscurity evermore.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:33 AM on November 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
He was indeed....
Oh, bleah. I mean, I already wasn't keen on seeing it anyway, but. That particular Sid Meniscus is one I was hoping would fade into obscurity evermore.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:33 AM on November 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
I did see Baby Driver and thought it a good film, particularly the editing.
But, yeah, Sid M is in it. So there's that.
posted by Pouteria at 9:23 PM on November 16, 2021
But, yeah, Sid M is in it. So there's that.
posted by Pouteria at 9:23 PM on November 16, 2021
Baby Driver is excellent and I'm mad at Sid M for ruining it for people who won't see it because he's in it.
posted by cooker girl at 7:05 AM on November 17, 2021
posted by cooker girl at 7:05 AM on November 17, 2021
Baby Driver does some amazing things with music and editing, on the other hand not only does it have Spacey in it but he plays an older man who's gaslighting and emotionally manipulating a younger man.
posted by octothorpe at 7:58 AM on November 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 7:58 AM on November 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
The weirdest thing for me is that George Harrison was such a close friend to him. The nicest thing I can think about that is that people are multi-layered.
In conclusion, people are a land of contrasts.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:32 AM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
In conclusion, people are a land of contrasts.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:32 AM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Never Meet Your Heroes
Jonathan Richman is one of my heroes and he is one of the nicest human beings I have ever met. So, there are exceptions to this particular rule.
posted by y2karl at 12:56 PM on November 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
Jonathan Richman is one of my heroes and he is one of the nicest human beings I have ever met. So, there are exceptions to this particular rule.
posted by y2karl at 12:56 PM on November 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
I have a picture of me shaking hands with Johnny Ramone from like 1990, there's always a risk.
posted by rhizome at 1:04 PM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 1:04 PM on November 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
(As a tangent, I'm kind of getting a kick out of how a couple people have adopted my "Sid Meniscus" pseudonym move)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:08 AM on November 18, 2021
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:08 AM on November 18, 2021
argh: this isn't Clapton but one of my favourite artists went all anti-vax last week and this week released a super-fashy and possibly actionable "Ballad of K___ R__________". I'm accepting armeowda's "human egg-fart" sympathy cards ...
posted by scruss at 11:00 AM on November 22, 2021
posted by scruss at 11:00 AM on November 22, 2021
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posted by BlahLaLa at 10:38 AM on November 14, 2021 [47 favorites]