They're all Mormon...
November 30, 2021 1:47 PM Subscribe
A couple of older and more in-depth articles that I would've added to the post if I hadn't posted it so impulsively:
Why I can't stop reading Mormon housewife blogs
Why So Many of Your Favorite Beauty Personalities Are Mormon
posted by clawsoon at 2:04 PM on November 30, 2021 [11 favorites]
Why I can't stop reading Mormon housewife blogs
Why So Many of Your Favorite Beauty Personalities Are Mormon
posted by clawsoon at 2:04 PM on November 30, 2021 [11 favorites]
People who curate the minutia of their life into an online presence that puts them (and their family) at the center of it all pairs nicely with a religion that offers the final achievement of putting You at the command center of your own universe when you die.
posted by msbutah at 2:20 PM on November 30, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by msbutah at 2:20 PM on November 30, 2021 [17 favorites]
Metafilter: I tell Jesus what you said, and then I barf some more
posted by gwint at 2:21 PM on November 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by gwint at 2:21 PM on November 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
The Evolution of a Mormon Mommy Blogger: For the woman formerly known as Nat the Fat Rat, the label no longer quite fits. By Lydia Kiesling (The Cut).
"She suspects the way she used her blog as an outlet also has to do with Mormon culture. “A lot of us are, or were, in marriages that were limiting, because it was a very patriarchal society in the church, and we didn’t have a voice at church. We didn’t have a voice at home, in a lot of the cases. We followed our husbands’ career. We didn’t have a career of our own, or if we did, it was always second tier, and we were always celebrated in the church for having children. If we couldn’t have children, or if we had fraught relationships with our children, then what? What were we then?”"
posted by MonkeyToes at 2:22 PM on November 30, 2021 [14 favorites]
"She suspects the way she used her blog as an outlet also has to do with Mormon culture. “A lot of us are, or were, in marriages that were limiting, because it was a very patriarchal society in the church, and we didn’t have a voice at church. We didn’t have a voice at home, in a lot of the cases. We followed our husbands’ career. We didn’t have a career of our own, or if we did, it was always second tier, and we were always celebrated in the church for having children. If we couldn’t have children, or if we had fraught relationships with our children, then what? What were we then?”"
posted by MonkeyToes at 2:22 PM on November 30, 2021 [14 favorites]
I have no idea who these people are, but I fully believe her.
posted by offalark at 2:22 PM on November 30, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by offalark at 2:22 PM on November 30, 2021 [6 favorites]
My Mormon neighbor references the Mormon mommy bloggers like it’s her keeping up with the Jeffersons. I was surprised but ya social pressure.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 2:23 PM on November 30, 2021
posted by St. Peepsburg at 2:23 PM on November 30, 2021
a religion that offers the final achievement of putting You at the command center of your own universe when you die
Cue Andrew Rannells belting out "I BELIEVE! That plan involves me getting my own planet!"
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 2:24 PM on November 30, 2021 [9 favorites]
Cue Andrew Rannells belting out "I BELIEVE! That plan involves me getting my own planet!"
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 2:24 PM on November 30, 2021 [9 favorites]
I work in a form of content production and me and my colleagues have joked about this for years. Every time a client flies in some "influencer" family (always white, blonde, extremely put together) you will find out they live in Utah and of course the reason this 20-something mom has 6+ kids is because...... Mormon.
I have no doubt there are mommy bloggers/influencer families that follow other faiths but the Mormons in particular have like their own aesthetic that I guess goes well with fast fashion type products. The whole thing is weird to me.
posted by bradbane at 2:28 PM on November 30, 2021 [9 favorites]
I have no doubt there are mommy bloggers/influencer families that follow other faiths but the Mormons in particular have like their own aesthetic that I guess goes well with fast fashion type products. The whole thing is weird to me.
posted by bradbane at 2:28 PM on November 30, 2021 [9 favorites]
I was first clued into it by this sometimes very intense three-and-a-half hour conversation with a former Mormon couple on the Mormon Stories podcast (previously), where they talked about the wife making the second-most-viewed post ever on the official Mormon Instagram account (if I got all the details right).
posted by clawsoon at 2:30 PM on November 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 2:30 PM on November 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
while TFA is interesting and has some valid points, it elides the massive POC influencer communities.
Which is a shame, because I think a lot of the author's points--how IRL affinity groups tend to gather onlineas well, or how one's group and choices can limit one's means of employment, etc--apply to POC communities as well.
posted by turbowombat at 3:12 PM on November 30, 2021 [16 favorites]
Which is a shame, because I think a lot of the author's points--how IRL affinity groups tend to gather onlineas well, or how one's group and choices can limit one's means of employment, etc--apply to POC communities as well.
posted by turbowombat at 3:12 PM on November 30, 2021 [16 favorites]
I wonder if the Buzzfeed author realizes that the woman didn't, in fact, put up "a whole new Tiktok." It's like the people at my workplace who send around links to their "new blog" on the corporate intranet when it's simply a new post on their existing blog.
Anyway, thanks, your childhood pet rock, for this whole new Metafilter. I understand so little about Tiktok but I'm kind of fascinated by Mormon culture.
posted by emelenjr at 3:17 PM on November 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
Anyway, thanks, your childhood pet rock, for this whole new Metafilter. I understand so little about Tiktok but I'm kind of fascinated by Mormon culture.
posted by emelenjr at 3:17 PM on November 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
I would be curious what the connection / evolution is from the "original" mommy bloggers to this current dynamic -- I am most especially thinking of Heather Armstrong, who is herself ex-Mormon.
posted by feckless at 3:20 PM on November 30, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by feckless at 3:20 PM on November 30, 2021 [6 favorites]
At least let me have the Russian Dashcams videos
[a bear wanders onto the highway, crushing some old guy in a zaphorozets]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 3:22 PM on November 30, 2021 [21 favorites]
[a bear wanders onto the highway, crushing some old guy in a zaphorozets]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 3:22 PM on November 30, 2021 [21 favorites]
From TFA: Mormon influencers may resonate with the doctrine of life after death and also renounce church leaders who hurt the LGBTQ+ community.
As we say inGermany MeFi, if there’s a Nazi homophobe at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis homophobes.
posted by signal at 3:23 PM on November 30, 2021 [17 favorites]
As we say in
posted by signal at 3:23 PM on November 30, 2021 [17 favorites]
As we say in Germany MeFi, if there’s a Nazi homophobe at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis homophobes.
I literally just got out of a League game against a Nazi with the name "FourteenWords 88" and the fact that the other team didn't immediately start inting like crazy just indicts gaming as a whole.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:26 PM on November 30, 2021 [11 favorites]
I literally just got out of a League game against a Nazi with the name "FourteenWords 88" and the fact that the other team didn't immediately start inting like crazy just indicts gaming as a whole.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:26 PM on November 30, 2021 [11 favorites]
emelenjr, it may surprise you to find out that the word for a post on Tiktok is, in fact, tiktok. What a world!
posted by sagc at 3:33 PM on November 30, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by sagc at 3:33 PM on November 30, 2021 [14 favorites]
emelenjr: "I wonder if the Buzzfeed author realizes that the woman didn't, in fact, put up "a whole new Tiktok." It's like the people at my workplace who send around links to their "new blog" on the corporate intranet when it's simply a new post on their existing blog."
I feel you, and have chastised people for saying 'blog' for 'post' in a professional context, but synecdoche's gonna synecdoche, you know?
posted by signal at 3:49 PM on November 30, 2021 [12 favorites]
I feel you, and have chastised people for saying 'blog' for 'post' in a professional context, but synecdoche's gonna synecdoche, you know?
posted by signal at 3:49 PM on November 30, 2021 [12 favorites]
I literally just got out of a League game against a Nazi with the name "FourteenWords 88" and the fact that the other team didn't immediately start inting like crazy just indicts gaming as a whole.
I did a double-take when I saw Pepe The Frog emoji on a (music-related) Discord server. The poster didn't show any signs of having Nazi-adjacent sympathies, though.
posted by acb at 3:55 PM on November 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
I did a double-take when I saw Pepe The Frog emoji on a (music-related) Discord server. The poster didn't show any signs of having Nazi-adjacent sympathies, though.
posted by acb at 3:55 PM on November 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
I have no idea who these people are, but I fully believe her. -- posted by offalark at 4:22 PM on November 30
As long as you know how they got wedged in the scanner.
posted by symbioid at 4:02 PM on November 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
As long as you know how they got wedged in the scanner.
posted by symbioid at 4:02 PM on November 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
I did a double-take when I saw Pepe The Frog emoji on a (music-related) Discord server. The poster didn't show any signs of having Nazi-adjacent sympathies, though.
Pepe has a weird and complex history outside of the alt-right community mostly because of Twitch (notably monkaS and PepeHands) and it has developed in sort of a parallel evolution that has involved way less of the white supremacy and more it's a cool character. There's people like us who know the overlap and then there's people who wonder wtf white supremacy we're talking about.
Also, the creator of Pepe wants him out of alt-right hands. It's sort of like a consensus cold war which is really difficult with his chan origins and an alt-right adjacency that the Nazis won't let go of politely.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 4:03 PM on November 30, 2021 [20 favorites]
Pepe has a weird and complex history outside of the alt-right community mostly because of Twitch (notably monkaS and PepeHands) and it has developed in sort of a parallel evolution that has involved way less of the white supremacy and more it's a cool character. There's people like us who know the overlap and then there's people who wonder wtf white supremacy we're talking about.
Also, the creator of Pepe wants him out of alt-right hands. It's sort of like a consensus cold war which is really difficult with his chan origins and an alt-right adjacency that the Nazis won't let go of politely.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 4:03 PM on November 30, 2021 [20 favorites]
Which is made even tougher because alt-right assholes will try to ruin everything. PepeClown is one of those things which was ruined for me by all that /r/honkler shit a couple of years ago. Now seeing it anywhere outside a white nationalist adjacent context I'm like "not sure if cryptofascist or..."
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 4:07 PM on November 30, 2021
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 4:07 PM on November 30, 2021
This immediately put me in mind of Anne Helen Petersen's interview with Meg Conley (previously discussed here) and the double bind women are put in who are expected to be successful but not so much so that it threatens the men! - which seems to be just turned up to 11 with Mormon women.
posted by Pickman's Next Top Model at 4:42 PM on November 30, 2021 [14 favorites]
posted by Pickman's Next Top Model at 4:42 PM on November 30, 2021 [14 favorites]
About a month ago, I had a small fit of watching clean up videos on youtube to relax. After a few, I noticed some similarities. All white moms, similar decor (monochrome, farmhouse chic, live laugh love, etc), young children. Houses that weren't dirty in the sense of grimy or dusty, just cluttery, needing a tidy and a short vacuum.
Anyway, I was watching one video. The mom who was doing the clean up paused to nurse her kid on camera, and I just had the grossest little aha moment. I had stumbled onto someone else's porn stash. Or, if not a porn stash, then a nasty somebody's shitty daydream stash. To be clear, I mean nazis. Stay at home moms are obviously fine, you do you. But there is a really specific audience being catered to, even inadvertently.
posted by snerson at 4:55 PM on November 30, 2021 [8 favorites]
Anyway, I was watching one video. The mom who was doing the clean up paused to nurse her kid on camera, and I just had the grossest little aha moment. I had stumbled onto someone else's porn stash. Or, if not a porn stash, then a nasty somebody's shitty daydream stash. To be clear, I mean nazis. Stay at home moms are obviously fine, you do you. But there is a really specific audience being catered to, even inadvertently.
posted by snerson at 4:55 PM on November 30, 2021 [8 favorites]
See also the LulaRich documentary on Amazon Prime. The women selling lularoe are these same influencers just a few years ago. It's all so superficial and gross IMHO.
posted by hydra77 at 5:09 PM on November 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by hydra77 at 5:09 PM on November 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
None of the people or types of media mentioned seemed to have pierced my bubble at all, unless some of the videogame streamers I somewhat follow are all in on the mormon scheme too and just never mention it.
posted by GoblinHoney at 5:16 PM on November 30, 2021
posted by GoblinHoney at 5:16 PM on November 30, 2021
I mean, Pinterest came before Tiktok, and women's magazines came before that. The implication of the post is that Mormons are taking over and that it's not a good thing. Whatever your reaction to that statement; it's gross.
posted by fragmede at 5:17 PM on November 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by fragmede at 5:17 PM on November 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
did a double-take when I saw Pepe The Frog emoji on a (music-related) Discord server.
Duuuude that may have been my actual and literal offspring. Kid is 13 years old and I happened to glace at his phone last week while he was texting and nearly lost my eyeballs to the involuntary *sproing* they did upon seeing Pepe as his avatar/icon. Turns out he doesn't know about its association with white supremacy or trump at all. And why would he? The child is utterly naive. He's on discord talking to his school friends about robotics club, and his familiarity with internet memes is best illustrated by the fact that he still rickrolls me in increasingly sneaky ways every week. He came across Pepe on some random non-racist totally harmless meme shared by a friend of a friend, thought it looked weird, and used it. He was comically horrified when I told him about Pepe.
Fucking Zoomers, I tell you.
posted by MiraK at 6:02 PM on November 30, 2021 [22 favorites]
Duuuude that may have been my actual and literal offspring. Kid is 13 years old and I happened to glace at his phone last week while he was texting and nearly lost my eyeballs to the involuntary *sproing* they did upon seeing Pepe as his avatar/icon. Turns out he doesn't know about its association with white supremacy or trump at all. And why would he? The child is utterly naive. He's on discord talking to his school friends about robotics club, and his familiarity with internet memes is best illustrated by the fact that he still rickrolls me in increasingly sneaky ways every week. He came across Pepe on some random non-racist totally harmless meme shared by a friend of a friend, thought it looked weird, and used it. He was comically horrified when I told him about Pepe.
Fucking Zoomers, I tell you.
posted by MiraK at 6:02 PM on November 30, 2021 [22 favorites]
and so is every influencer you’ve loved in the past decade
Colin Furze is Mormon? I had no idea.
posted by flabdablet at 6:10 PM on November 30, 2021
Colin Furze is Mormon? I had no idea.
posted by flabdablet at 6:10 PM on November 30, 2021
I thought I've had for a while: I've noticed that Mormons are infamous for their beliefs, as opposed to Jehovah's Witnesses, who are infamous for what they actually do. This animated segment from a Christian anti-Mormon documentary is a wild ride, while its Jehovah's Witnesses counterpart is duller than dishwater... but atheist vlogger and former JW Telltale's videos on JWs are a whole other story.
posted by BiggerJ at 6:16 PM on November 30, 2021
posted by BiggerJ at 6:16 PM on November 30, 2021
I woman I met at a party was raised Mormon. She said something along the line of Utah having the highest plastic surgery rate of any state in the country
posted by goalyeehah at 6:18 PM on November 30, 2021
posted by goalyeehah at 6:18 PM on November 30, 2021
She said something along the line of Utah having the highest plastic surgery rate of any state in the country
Whether or not that statistic is actually true, it is anecdotally supported by the sheer number of plastic surgery, laser hair removal, and similar billboards you see in the Salt Lake metro corridor.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:22 PM on November 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
Whether or not that statistic is actually true, it is anecdotally supported by the sheer number of plastic surgery, laser hair removal, and similar billboards you see in the Salt Lake metro corridor.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:22 PM on November 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
I know people are already sort of addressing this but Pepe was a popular icon long before he was specifically associated with the alt-right. He was appropriated by the alt-right as their identity coalesced in places like /pol where Pepe memes were popular. But they have remained popular in other contexts the whole time.
posted by atoxyl at 6:23 PM on November 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 6:23 PM on November 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
The female side of things is well-covered above but i just want to add another odd datapoint that might be more visible to ppl like me or anyone looking up travel videos ( for tips etc): it doesn't take long before you hit the earnest videos or the more influencer types extolling how ppl in such-and-such country are like, and what you need to look out for... And then you (i mean, me) realised these were Mormon boys who came back from their two-year mission.
(I know what's the updated theology is but it is still weird to also find Asian Mormons here! Church and everything. The tragicomic part of it is the Muslim political majority here made it actually illegal to preach to Muslims if you're non-muslim/not official jurist school/Shi'a, so you get to see two institutional racisms intersecting in real daily life, where some white boy in a shirt and slacks will cautiously find out if the local he's approaching is a Muslim or not so he could start his spiel.)
posted by cendawanita at 6:43 PM on November 30, 2021 [21 favorites]
(I know what's the updated theology is but it is still weird to also find Asian Mormons here! Church and everything. The tragicomic part of it is the Muslim political majority here made it actually illegal to preach to Muslims if you're non-muslim/not official jurist school/Shi'a, so you get to see two institutional racisms intersecting in real daily life, where some white boy in a shirt and slacks will cautiously find out if the local he's approaching is a Muslim or not so he could start his spiel.)
posted by cendawanita at 6:43 PM on November 30, 2021 [21 favorites]
it elides the massive POC influencer communities.
I think part of the point is that the social media algorithms elide those, too. If you're a white woman under 50 (or the algorithms think you might be, based on your viewing habits) there's a damn good chance they are feeding/suggesting to you these various white women influencers who have a not-necessarily-obvious commonality. A commonality based in a fairly narrowly defined religious and cultural structure.
Which in turn means that the world of POC influencers may well be invisible to those who aren't POC and don't actively seek them out.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:47 PM on November 30, 2021 [18 favorites]
I think part of the point is that the social media algorithms elide those, too. If you're a white woman under 50 (or the algorithms think you might be, based on your viewing habits) there's a damn good chance they are feeding/suggesting to you these various white women influencers who have a not-necessarily-obvious commonality. A commonality based in a fairly narrowly defined religious and cultural structure.
Which in turn means that the world of POC influencers may well be invisible to those who aren't POC and don't actively seek them out.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:47 PM on November 30, 2021 [18 favorites]
I can definitely attest to that. I live where I live and i still need to work hard and continually to break that bubble. I barely follow lifestyle internet but pop culture/fandom internet and one recommended channel (as good as it is) will inevitably reroute the algorithm into nothing but white girl ytubers. My regular puncturing seems futile, unless the odd majority-accepted ones like Kat Blacque, Mina Le, Khadija, F.D. Signifier...
That one year of makeup YouTube too -- outside of Jackie Aina... ??
posted by cendawanita at 7:00 PM on November 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
That one year of makeup YouTube too -- outside of Jackie Aina... ??
posted by cendawanita at 7:00 PM on November 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
Don't overlook the Formons. The dogma is replaced by doubling down on the aspirationalism.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:06 PM on November 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:06 PM on November 30, 2021 [3 favorites]
He came across Pepe on some random non-racist totally harmless meme shared by a friend of a friend, thought it looked weird, and used it. He was comically horrified when I told him about Pepe.
Fucking Zoomers, I tell you.
I think this may be post-Zoomer?
Time is merciless.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:10 PM on November 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
Fucking Zoomers, I tell you.
I think this may be post-Zoomer?
Time is merciless.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:10 PM on November 30, 2021 [2 favorites]
The implication of the post is that Mormons are taking over and that it's not a good thing.
Uh...really? Maybe my radar's off but it didn't seem like either the Buzzfeed post or the TikTok were making any kind of evaluative statements about the goodness or badness of this thing. The TikTok is definitely snarking on the influencers but not about their Mormonism...she snarks on ostentatious displays of wealth, bad tans, baby name trends, but the Mormonism is just the common thread tying all of these seemingly very different schools of influencer together. It seemed very much like a "huh, so here's a thing, that you probably weren't expecting like, at ALL."
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:28 PM on November 30, 2021 [4 favorites]
Uh...really? Maybe my radar's off but it didn't seem like either the Buzzfeed post or the TikTok were making any kind of evaluative statements about the goodness or badness of this thing. The TikTok is definitely snarking on the influencers but not about their Mormonism...she snarks on ostentatious displays of wealth, bad tans, baby name trends, but the Mormonism is just the common thread tying all of these seemingly very different schools of influencer together. It seemed very much like a "huh, so here's a thing, that you probably weren't expecting like, at ALL."
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:28 PM on November 30, 2021 [4 favorites]
For whatever reason, I do associate the mormons I know with 'glam'--when we were kids, the mormons were the ravers who sported the freshest european jackets, never had a hair out of place, or the punks with immaculate spiked jean jackets, and precisely dyed hair.
So it does make sense, in my limited experience of mormons (in the US Southeast), that they would be taking over a glam-based business like Instagram.
posted by eustatic at 7:35 PM on November 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
So it does make sense, in my limited experience of mormons (in the US Southeast), that they would be taking over a glam-based business like Instagram.
posted by eustatic at 7:35 PM on November 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
https://www.pewforum.org/dataset/mormons-in-america/
I was surprised to see that this survey of mormonism from the mormon perspective didn't include income or class aspirational data, but it was present in the full report. posted without comment.
Income and Education
In recent Pew Research Center surveys, three in-ten U.S. Mormons (29%) had a household
income of less than $30,000, while 30% had a household income of $75,000-$100,000 (14%) or over $100,000 (16%). In the current sample, 28% have a household income less than $30,000 and 26% report household incomes of $75,000 or more.
The vast majority of U.S. Mormons in previous Pew Research Center surveys had a high school diploma or higher (93%). About one-third (32%) had completed some college, and almost another third (30%) had a college degree and/or some post-graduate education. The levels of educational attainment among Mormons in the current sample closely match these estimates.
posted by eustatic at 7:56 PM on November 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
I was surprised to see that this survey of mormonism from the mormon perspective didn't include income or class aspirational data, but it was present in the full report. posted without comment.
Income and Education
In recent Pew Research Center surveys, three in-ten U.S. Mormons (29%) had a household
income of less than $30,000, while 30% had a household income of $75,000-$100,000 (14%) or over $100,000 (16%). In the current sample, 28% have a household income less than $30,000 and 26% report household incomes of $75,000 or more.
The vast majority of U.S. Mormons in previous Pew Research Center surveys had a high school diploma or higher (93%). About one-third (32%) had completed some college, and almost another third (30%) had a college degree and/or some post-graduate education. The levels of educational attainment among Mormons in the current sample closely match these estimates.
posted by eustatic at 7:56 PM on November 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
I live where I live and i still need to work hard and continually to break that bubble.
My YT has been kind of taken over by 1A auditors and police baiters, it is at least nice that it has a good diversity mix in it.
posted by Meatbomb at 8:17 PM on November 30, 2021
My YT has been kind of taken over by 1A auditors and police baiters, it is at least nice that it has a good diversity mix in it.
posted by Meatbomb at 8:17 PM on November 30, 2021
My goodness, looks like it’s Mormons all the way down.
posted by cybrcamper at 8:20 PM on November 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by cybrcamper at 8:20 PM on November 30, 2021 [1 favorite]
Multi-level marketing has always been big business in Utah, polygamy is a huge business in Utah with a lot of non paid work done by the lost boys. But DIY moneymaking centered on neo collectivism, and tiers of theocracy, that 100 billion dollar bank account held by the church, the land holdings, cattle ranches, it didn't come from nowhere. Money and water, Utah is good at that. Their collectivism buys it, the oligarchs maintain it. It all looks so nice. I even miss the amenities of SLC, but it is so expensive now, the little businesses that gave it charm, the real estate market has skyrocketed, so doing business at home is one of the only affordable ways to do it at all. Then there are Costco pallets, Etsy, Pinterest, Amazon dealerships, Amway, and whatever other pyramidal enterprises are newly festering, oh yeah, and the military contracts.
posted by Oyéah at 8:25 PM on November 30, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 8:25 PM on November 30, 2021 [11 favorites]
Color me not surprised. I wasn’t raised Mormon, but in evangelical churches that have social similarities. I can’t tell you how often it was drummed into our soft little noggins that it wasn’t enough to BE happy - it was our duty to SHOW as many people as possible HOW happy we were and how perfect our lives were because of our relationship with the big guy. And public performance of traditional gender roles were also super-important.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:33 PM on November 30, 2021 [22 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:33 PM on November 30, 2021 [22 favorites]
in these mormon grocery haul videos how the fuck is meat so cheap
posted by PinkMoose at 12:16 AM on December 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by PinkMoose at 12:16 AM on December 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
Don't overlook the Formons. The dogma is replaced by doubling down on the aspirationalism.
The one ex-Mormon I know is a hardcore Communist.
posted by acb at 1:06 AM on December 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
The one ex-Mormon I know is a hardcore Communist.
posted by acb at 1:06 AM on December 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
This comment section feels to me a little like people are talking about someone who’s not in the room, and I worry that it could be alienating to Mormon (or ex-Mormon) mefites. I’m not Mormon, but as a different minority I know I’ve felt uncomfortable in spaces where people talk as if members of my minority group are others.
(Also, to be clear, I’m not opposed to discussions that name problematic religious beliefs or practices, which certainly exist within Mormonism, and I’m not picking on any comment in particular. It’s just that I feel there’s an assumption that all of us here aren’t Mormon underlying a lot of comments, and I think MeFi generally does a good job as a community at recognizing that members represent various minority groups, so this discussion is standing out to me.)
posted by chaiyai at 1:48 AM on December 1, 2021 [19 favorites]
(Also, to be clear, I’m not opposed to discussions that name problematic religious beliefs or practices, which certainly exist within Mormonism, and I’m not picking on any comment in particular. It’s just that I feel there’s an assumption that all of us here aren’t Mormon underlying a lot of comments, and I think MeFi generally does a good job as a community at recognizing that members represent various minority groups, so this discussion is standing out to me.)
posted by chaiyai at 1:48 AM on December 1, 2021 [19 favorites]
Agreed. Now that Mormons have admitted that ethnic minorities are allowed into heaven, they are welcome to join us in the 21st century.
posted by viborg at 2:34 AM on December 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by viborg at 2:34 AM on December 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
On the Pepe derail: I've encountered people unaware of the symbol's use as a neonazi meme, and gotten some rather strong pushback from people on Twitter when I told them it's considered a white supremacist symbol. And I kind of understand their point, while I have no attachment to Pepe, I'm sick of letting the nazis have things they decide they own. Fuck that, and fuck them.
posted by JHarris at 3:28 AM on December 1, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 3:28 AM on December 1, 2021 [10 favorites]
Maybe Hinduism can have its swastika back next.
posted by acb at 3:49 AM on December 1, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by acb at 3:49 AM on December 1, 2021 [8 favorites]
fragmede: I mean, Pinterest came before Tiktok, and women's magazines came before that. The implication of the post is that Mormons are taking over and that it's not a good thing. Whatever your reaction to that statement; it's gross.
My impression (mostly from Betty Friedan) is that women's magazines were at their most pernicious in the 1950s, when they were promoting the idea that the highest role for every woman is motherhood. I've been bingeing on Mormon Stories podcasts for the past couple of weeks, and it seems like that teaching is still very much alive in the Mormon church. It is still an explicitly patriarchal organization.
Based on some of the articles linked above, it seems like Mormon Instagram influencers are taking over some of the role of 1950s women's magazines, putting a glamorous, idealized sheen on motherhood. It's the fantasy of the "ideal" family where the wife stays home and is beautifully and deeply happy because she does not have any ambitions beyond that.
The same irony is present as was present with the 1950s women's magazines, of course: The fantasy is created by ambitious women who do a whole lot of work other than taking care of their children. Rachel Parcell didn't build a multi-million dollar enterprise that she "runs... out of offices in Utah and New York" and a clothing line in Nordstrom's by being fully content with stay-at-home motherhood. It's the same thing for LuLaRoe and all the other MLMs full of ambitious Mormon (and other fundamentalist) women who are desperate for some measure of financial independence and personal accomplishment beyond "be completely financially supported by a man while raising his children."
Is it a harmless fantasy?
posted by clawsoon at 4:28 AM on December 1, 2021 [9 favorites]
My impression (mostly from Betty Friedan) is that women's magazines were at their most pernicious in the 1950s, when they were promoting the idea that the highest role for every woman is motherhood. I've been bingeing on Mormon Stories podcasts for the past couple of weeks, and it seems like that teaching is still very much alive in the Mormon church. It is still an explicitly patriarchal organization.
Based on some of the articles linked above, it seems like Mormon Instagram influencers are taking over some of the role of 1950s women's magazines, putting a glamorous, idealized sheen on motherhood. It's the fantasy of the "ideal" family where the wife stays home and is beautifully and deeply happy because she does not have any ambitions beyond that.
The same irony is present as was present with the 1950s women's magazines, of course: The fantasy is created by ambitious women who do a whole lot of work other than taking care of their children. Rachel Parcell didn't build a multi-million dollar enterprise that she "runs... out of offices in Utah and New York" and a clothing line in Nordstrom's by being fully content with stay-at-home motherhood. It's the same thing for LuLaRoe and all the other MLMs full of ambitious Mormon (and other fundamentalist) women who are desperate for some measure of financial independence and personal accomplishment beyond "be completely financially supported by a man while raising his children."
Is it a harmless fantasy?
posted by clawsoon at 4:28 AM on December 1, 2021 [9 favorites]
My daughter became a Mormon in high school and is still Mormon more than twenty years later. This means I wasn't allowed to go to her wedding and, if my grandkids stay in the church, I won't be allowed at their weddings either. So I have lots of complicated feelings about the Mormon church. I dislike the institution, but I also dislike it when Mormons are treated in the press in a way that doesn't seem fair to me. I'm also a practicing Catholic, so I know what it's like to get religion-based shit in progressive circles (and nonprogressive circles - on a fricking cancer board, I mentioned my religion, and one of the members saw fit to send me an extremely lengthy email about how awful the Catholic church is just, I guess, to let me know).
I just read Jordan Kisner's wonderful essay book Thin Places, and she has one essay that focuses on the organization Mormon Women for Ethical Government, which was started by a group of Mormon women who were horrified by Trump's election. I was really heartened to learn of this organization. Like members of any other religion, Mormon women aren't all the same.
My brother converted to Judaism when he married, and my mother had an extremely hard time with that, and I was very judgmental about her reaction. I sometimes feel that the universe decided to teach me a lesson about tolerance by giving me a Mormon daughter.
posted by FencingGal at 4:47 AM on December 1, 2021 [27 favorites]
I just read Jordan Kisner's wonderful essay book Thin Places, and she has one essay that focuses on the organization Mormon Women for Ethical Government, which was started by a group of Mormon women who were horrified by Trump's election. I was really heartened to learn of this organization. Like members of any other religion, Mormon women aren't all the same.
My brother converted to Judaism when he married, and my mother had an extremely hard time with that, and I was very judgmental about her reaction. I sometimes feel that the universe decided to teach me a lesson about tolerance by giving me a Mormon daughter.
posted by FencingGal at 4:47 AM on December 1, 2021 [27 favorites]
Thanks for this post. It's simultaneously baffling and fascinating to see stuff like this where it's just layers upon layers upon layers of things that are so foreign to me it's like I'm reading a report about alien cultures. I have never been able to understand or at all relate to the need for parasocial relationships, but analyses like this into hyper-specific types of them, many levels down, are really interesting.
posted by jklaiho at 6:08 AM on December 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by jklaiho at 6:08 AM on December 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
This comment section feels to me a little like people are talking about someone who’s not in the room, and I worry that it could be alienating to Mormon (or ex-Mormon) mefites.. @chaiya.
I appreciate the decency and sensitivity of this comment so much. On the other hand, we're talking about a bunch of mainstreamed, financially successful white people dripping with privilege.
I say this as an active Mormon who lives in the shadow of BYU.
posted by mecran01 at 7:26 AM on December 1, 2021 [16 favorites]
I appreciate the decency and sensitivity of this comment so much. On the other hand, we're talking about a bunch of mainstreamed, financially successful white people dripping with privilege.
I say this as an active Mormon who lives in the shadow of BYU.
posted by mecran01 at 7:26 AM on December 1, 2021 [16 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments deleted. In general, it's a good rule of thumb to act like members of a group you're talking about might be in the room here; mostly people are doing an okay job of that. Also please skip the generic "Mormons suck"; it's fine to be critical but let's keep the focus on more specific things from the actual article here.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:31 AM on December 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:31 AM on December 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
I don't think there are Mormons here. What faith do all European influencers share?
posted by Too-Ticky at 8:58 AM on December 1, 2021
posted by Too-Ticky at 8:58 AM on December 1, 2021
My brother converted to Judaism when he married, and my mother had an extremely hard time with that, and I was very judgmental about her reaction.
Let me tell you about the time my mother bought Easter coloring books for my very Jewish nieces at my wedding because she had literally never interacted with Jewish people before in her life...
I don't think there are Mormons here. What faith do all European influencers share?
Lutheranism.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 9:00 AM on December 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
Let me tell you about the time my mother bought Easter coloring books for my very Jewish nieces at my wedding because she had literally never interacted with Jewish people before in her life...
I don't think there are Mormons here. What faith do all European influencers share?
Lutheranism.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 9:00 AM on December 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
This comment section feels to me a little like people are talking about someone who’s not in the room, and I worry that it could be alienating to Mormon (or ex-Mormon) mefites
As a former Mormon (raised in the church, family is Mormon going back generations, most family with the exception of my outrageous, awesome, also-pushed-too-hard siblings remains in the church), thank you for your sensitivity.
I don't think the post is in any way that way? But there is something about Mormonism- more recent origins? smaller population base, so folks are less likely to know a Mormon?- that leads people to treat/discuss it in ways they would not discuss other religions* and I appreciate people who are mindful of that tendency.
I knew that there was a Mormon blogger/influencer Thing (in part because I have distant blonde cousins trying to share their Wellness Journeys with me on Instagram) but I really didn't know it was that widespread; the algorithm gods have decided (accurately) that even though I am a 40ish white woman they're not going to sell much to me that way. When I do stumble across that corner of the internet, though, the Mormon tells are so clear and so obvious to me that it shocks me people wouldn't know this, until I remember that not everyone else has 18 years of pretty intense cultural and religious indoctrination lodged in their brain.
This immediately put me in mind of Anne Helen Petersen's interview with Meg Conley
I love them both and had missed this somehow- thank you.
*for example: at the USC vs. BYU football game last weekend, the USC student section was chanting "f*ck the Mormons" which has led to various and totally needed apologies/statements from the university. I graduated from USC and I really have a hard time believing that the student section even in my day would have chanted that about Jews or Muslims. But somehow with Mormons, well, here we are with this still being a thing in 2021.
posted by charmedimsure at 9:05 AM on December 1, 2021 [9 favorites]
As a former Mormon (raised in the church, family is Mormon going back generations, most family with the exception of my outrageous, awesome, also-pushed-too-hard siblings remains in the church), thank you for your sensitivity.
I don't think the post is in any way that way? But there is something about Mormonism- more recent origins? smaller population base, so folks are less likely to know a Mormon?- that leads people to treat/discuss it in ways they would not discuss other religions* and I appreciate people who are mindful of that tendency.
I knew that there was a Mormon blogger/influencer Thing (in part because I have distant blonde cousins trying to share their Wellness Journeys with me on Instagram) but I really didn't know it was that widespread; the algorithm gods have decided (accurately) that even though I am a 40ish white woman they're not going to sell much to me that way. When I do stumble across that corner of the internet, though, the Mormon tells are so clear and so obvious to me that it shocks me people wouldn't know this, until I remember that not everyone else has 18 years of pretty intense cultural and religious indoctrination lodged in their brain.
This immediately put me in mind of Anne Helen Petersen's interview with Meg Conley
I love them both and had missed this somehow- thank you.
*for example: at the USC vs. BYU football game last weekend, the USC student section was chanting "f*ck the Mormons" which has led to various and totally needed apologies/statements from the university. I graduated from USC and I really have a hard time believing that the student section even in my day would have chanted that about Jews or Muslims. But somehow with Mormons, well, here we are with this still being a thing in 2021.
posted by charmedimsure at 9:05 AM on December 1, 2021 [9 favorites]
There's an LDS church with a gold spire opposite the Science Museum, I would occasionally see them streaming in or out if I was around on Sundays at the right time.
Fashion-wise they did all look amazingly well put-together. All those smart suits and bright knee-length skirts, it was like watching a Fifties musical. Not surprised they've got a head start in the Instagram-style world.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 9:05 AM on December 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
Fashion-wise they did all look amazingly well put-together. All those smart suits and bright knee-length skirts, it was like watching a Fifties musical. Not surprised they've got a head start in the Instagram-style world.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 9:05 AM on December 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
Fashion-wise they did all look amazingly well put-together. All those smart suits and bright knee-length skirts, it was like watching a Fifties musical. Not surprised they've got a head start in the Instagram-style world.
If you see Fred Armisen anywhere near the group and they start singing about Corn Puddin' then run like hell.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 9:12 AM on December 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
If you see Fred Armisen anywhere near the group and they start singing about Corn Puddin' then run like hell.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 9:12 AM on December 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
Lutheranism.
Come to think of it, Sweden does feel like a weird, secular/progressive coffee-drinking parallel-universe Utah at times.
posted by acb at 10:09 AM on December 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
Come to think of it, Sweden does feel like a weird, secular/progressive coffee-drinking parallel-universe Utah at times.
posted by acb at 10:09 AM on December 1, 2021 [3 favorites]
I have never been able to understand or at all relate to the need for parasocial relationships
I think the equivalent here on the blue is How The Gifted Programs Of The 70s and 80s Birthed An Online Community.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:35 AM on December 1, 2021 [13 favorites]
I think the equivalent here on the blue is How The Gifted Programs Of The 70s and 80s Birthed An Online Community.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:35 AM on December 1, 2021 [13 favorites]
I remember reading that Mormons do extremely well in the televised shows that depend on viewer votes; especially those that are broadcast on Tuesdays. The story was that Tuesdays were scheduled family time anyways; and this was a activity they could all participate in; with the added bonus of having Mormon competitors and thus a reason to root for.
Especially with the Dancing with the Stars series. I think at least one of the consistent winners; Julianne Hough; is Mormon.
posted by indianbadger1 at 10:42 AM on December 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
Especially with the Dancing with the Stars series. I think at least one of the consistent winners; Julianne Hough; is Mormon.
posted by indianbadger1 at 10:42 AM on December 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
Family nights are usually Mondays, not Tuesdays, in my experience.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:06 AM on December 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:06 AM on December 1, 2021 [2 favorites]
I kind of understand their point, while I have no attachment to Pepe, I'm sick of letting the nazis have things they decide they own.
I think it’s ultimately just a “context matters” thing. I kinda understand why people would rather it not be, and just say, “well, I’m not going near that.” But thinking that way one is bound to be confused by a lot of things, because the meaning of these signifiers in the wild is complicated, and constantly in flux. “Mom, the Nazis don’t use real Pepe anymore, they use this one poorly-drawn version of Pepe and they call it Groyper, now.” And so on.
posted by atoxyl at 11:12 AM on December 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
I think it’s ultimately just a “context matters” thing. I kinda understand why people would rather it not be, and just say, “well, I’m not going near that.” But thinking that way one is bound to be confused by a lot of things, because the meaning of these signifiers in the wild is complicated, and constantly in flux. “Mom, the Nazis don’t use real Pepe anymore, they use this one poorly-drawn version of Pepe and they call it Groyper, now.” And so on.
posted by atoxyl at 11:12 AM on December 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
Metafilter: How The Gifted Programs Of The 70s and 80s Birthed An Online Community.
posted by mecran01 at 11:31 AM on December 1, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by mecran01 at 11:31 AM on December 1, 2021 [8 favorites]
the USC student section was chanting "f*ck the Mormons
Say it out loud - it's a offshoot of "F* Joe Biden", probably has nothing to do with Mormonism as a religion, just as something that fits the cadence.
In recent Pew Research Center surveys, three in-ten U.S. Mormons (29%) had a household
income of less than $30,000, while 30% had a household income of $75,000-$100,000 (14%) or over $100,000 (16%). In the current sample, 28% have a household income less than $30,000 and 26% report household incomes of $75,000 or more.
These are pretty much in-line with the rest of the US's income demograhics, though your dollar might go farther in Salt Lake City and Utah, ie: cost of living differences may imply slightly more disposable income than their median cohorts.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:49 PM on December 1, 2021
Say it out loud - it's a offshoot of "F* Joe Biden", probably has nothing to do with Mormonism as a religion, just as something that fits the cadence.
In recent Pew Research Center surveys, three in-ten U.S. Mormons (29%) had a household
income of less than $30,000, while 30% had a household income of $75,000-$100,000 (14%) or over $100,000 (16%). In the current sample, 28% have a household income less than $30,000 and 26% report household incomes of $75,000 or more.
These are pretty much in-line with the rest of the US's income demograhics, though your dollar might go farther in Salt Lake City and Utah, ie: cost of living differences may imply slightly more disposable income than their median cohorts.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:49 PM on December 1, 2021
Say it out loud - it's a offshoot of "F* Joe Biden", probably has nothing to do with Mormonism as a religion, just as something that fits the cadence.
I really don’t think you are correct to be this dismissive of something that is really genuinely- if casually- offensive and bigoted. I wouldn’t have a problem if they used the BYU mascot and chanted “F*ck the Cougars” which is also fits the cadence; that would be crass and obnoxious but wholly unsurprising. “F*ck [any religious group]” is not cool. College students should know better.
posted by charmedimsure at 1:05 PM on December 1, 2021 [14 favorites]
I really don’t think you are correct to be this dismissive of something that is really genuinely- if casually- offensive and bigoted. I wouldn’t have a problem if they used the BYU mascot and chanted “F*ck the Cougars” which is also fits the cadence; that would be crass and obnoxious but wholly unsurprising. “F*ck [any religious group]” is not cool. College students should know better.
posted by charmedimsure at 1:05 PM on December 1, 2021 [14 favorites]
I really don’t think you are correct to be this dismissive of something that is really genuinely- if casually- offensive and bigoted.
Sorry, I wasn't dismissing it, I just don't think football-game attending students at USC care that much about the intricacies of various religious groups, and as the original is meant to be extremely offensive, so are the offshoots.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:13 PM on December 1, 2021
Sorry, I wasn't dismissing it, I just don't think football-game attending students at USC care that much about the intricacies of various religious groups, and as the original is meant to be extremely offensive, so are the offshoots.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:13 PM on December 1, 2021
The_Vegetables, do you really think that chants with the cadence "Fuck the [syllable][syllable] were invented earlier this fall?
posted by sagc at 1:19 PM on December 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by sagc at 1:19 PM on December 1, 2021 [5 favorites]
Moderators delete this as you like, but the best taunt I saw at a school game was at University of Alberta Golden Bears and someone gave their little nephew a sign to run around: "BEND OVER MANITOBA"
I'm not sure whether awareness of intricacies is the important thing here, I take the point about how anti-Mormonism seems to get a weird pass in some sectors.
posted by elkevelvet at 1:38 PM on December 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure whether awareness of intricacies is the important thing here, I take the point about how anti-Mormonism seems to get a weird pass in some sectors.
posted by elkevelvet at 1:38 PM on December 1, 2021 [1 favorite]
« Older “I’m much too busy to die”. | Welcome to the pyrocene Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 1:57 PM on November 30, 2021 [16 favorites]